Thanks for the detailed claims of racism. Let's take them one by one.

Quote from: jhkim on Today at 02:17:44 AM

Quote from: R.E. HowardThe black race was doomed. They were destroyers, not builders. When they slew the white men, progress ceased. The blacks reverted to savagery. They did not even know the art of making weapons. They had destroyed and could not rebuild. And they were going back to bestial savagery, and to a slaughtering of one another which even their animal-like rate of birth could not control.

Now, blacks are described as strong when here at their prime, but they are clearly mentally and morally inferior to the whites. Physically, there is some see-saw described. Whites are described as superior physically at first, but they lost their physical edge, only gaining it back towards the end.

I don't see anything that says that blacks are "mentally and morally inferior". They're fighting a war, and the weapons factories of Europe and then the Americas are destroyed. The book doesn't suggest that blacks were unable to learn how to make weapons. And I don't see anything that questions their morality. Indeed, it's made clear in the story that the blacks have a reason for their all-out war:

Quote from: R.E. HowardAnd a new, strong race had risen. A race whose people had been enslaved for ages.

So they're not fighting because of a moral failing on their part.

Quote from: jhkim on Today at 02:17:44 AMOn other fronts, the blacks are clearly inferior, except for their "animal-like rate of birth" which I don't think is intended as a positive trait.

Isn't it? It's what gives them the edge and lets them win the war. The story also says:

Quote from: R.E. HowardAnd the white race was exhausted by dissipation; birth rate almost ceased.

So there you see that the whites are doomed even without the other races fighting them, because of their almost non-existent birth rate. I think a higher birth rate is clearly something good to have in the world of this story.

Quote from: jhkim on Today at 02:17:44 AMBeyond the direct description, though, the events of the race wars show this. The blacks lead the charge to wipe out all the white of Europe, then invade the U.S. to invade there. That is a negative portrayal of black people, which demonstrates their desire to "slaughter and plunder" even if the story hadn't used those exact words to describe the black race.

As I pointed out, the blacks in the story are given a reason for their actions beyond some inherent badness. You could just as easily claim that it's a negative portrayal of white people because they enslaved another race for ages, or because they became decadent and:

Quote from: R.E. HowardHe ... gave them white man's weapons, furnished by Americans and Europeans who would have as quickly and readily sold their own sisters' souls if the price were high enough.

The story gives a mixture of good and bad actions to all races, often rising and falling as they degenerate or become better people. I don't see any evidence that one race is treated particularly badly in that way.

Quote from: R.E. HowardAlso, in the end, they charge using only spears - which illustrates how they are unable to create weapons like rifles. The story says that they can't create weapons, and it also illustrates it by how they attack.

Because the weapon factories were in Europe and the Americas, which is where the fighting was. And the story makes clear that the blacks increase in number, so once the factories are destroyed, there are going to be fewer and fewer good weapons and more men, so of course it's going to become rarer and rarer for blacks to have good weapons. On the other hand, I doubt the titular last white man knows how to build a rifle either. He's got a weapon and ammo from a prior time, presumably passed down through his dwindling family. If his family had had lots of children at each generation, he'd probably have had to make do with a spear.

Quote from: jhkim on Today at 02:17:44 AMThe general theme of the story is the danger of the black race, who will wipe out the whites if given the chance. That is the future being portrayed, which he described to his friend Tevis Clyde Smith via letter as a "warning to the white races" (from jeff37923's link).

It's a story in which the blacks wipe out the whites. That doesn't make it inherently a warning that such a thing will happen in the real world. And I'm going to ignore Howard's letter; we've gone from "overt racism" in the Conan stories, to overt racism in his wider body of work. Please don't try to shift the goalposts to covert racism in Howard's wider body of work. If it's overt, you don't need substantiating evidence, you can just point to the quotes that make it clear.

Quote from: jhkim on Today at 02:17:44 AMThe leader of the blacks was not black himself, but that isn't a counter to the idea of black inferiority.

All that shows is that the blacks are open minded enough to allow themselves to be led by a non-black. I'd say that was another positive for them. And the blacks win the war; they're clearly not inferior. The leader is described as "a mixed-breed Arab". It's not clear what "mixed-breed" means there, but I think it means he's part Arab and part black. So we see someone with black ancestry having great mental abilities. So much for the claim of them being mentally inferior in the story!

Quote from: jhkim on Today at 02:17:44 AMAs the story describes the leader:

Quote from: R.E. HowardThey were a strong, young race. Their day was yet to come. All they lacked was a leader.

And a leader had risen. A mixed-breed Arab, whose ambition was without measure, whose genius was Satanic.

He welded them into one great mass, gave them white man's weapons, furnished by Americans and Europeans who would have as quickly and readily sold their own sisters' souls if the price were high enough.

Describing him as "Satanic" is clearly a negative."

It's a negative on one man. There's no suggestion that it's a racial Satanic genius, just that one man had it.

Quote from: jhkim on Today at 02:17:44 AMMoreover, it implies that the blacks are unable to have a leader of their own race. I don't think that is a positive for either black people or mixed-breed people.

Where does it imply that? They needed a great leader to arise, but it doesn't say that such a man couldn't have been black. By way of counter-example, I'm British. The majority of Brits are white, yet our Prime Minister is Asian. Does that imply to you that white Brits are "unable to have a leader of their own race"? Or just that they're open-minded people, who don't hate others based on not being the same race as them? And this goes back to your suggestion of moral failings for them launching a race war. They're not anti-everyone else, as their choice of leader shows. The story gives another reason for their war.

On a related note. The overly ambitious Evermore fantasy theme park/LARP closed down after years of decline.

I hope they return all the REAL gravestones from other countries they bought as props.

The train is for sale for like 200k apparently.

Disney got on one of the LARP forums and asked alot of questions about LARPing and we answered as best we could.

We called it that they were planning some manner of interactive park. And not long after the interview Disney filed a patent on some LARP-like tech. And sure enough a few years later and SW: Galaxies is announced.

I wanted to go see it and the starship but alas that was never to be.

Take note in the review how she had so many problems with things going awry.

Quote from: yosemitemike on May 29, 2024, 06:15:45 PMThe basic reason is simple.  It cost $6,000 or more for a family to stay there for a two day stay that isn't even all-inclusive.  That's way too much for a two day stay at a theme hotel.   

It was more than a theme hotel.

It was a hotel combined with a (poorly thought out) LARP.

Quote from: Brad on May 28, 2024, 06:41:02 PM

Quote from: Omega on May 26, 2024, 11:17:48 PMPost-Gygax TSR did that to about every setting eventually. BX's Known World exploded into Mystara where every hex was filled in and the magic gradually escalated.

And it sucks, honestly. While I LIKE Mystara, the world implied in BX, B1, and B2 is definitely a "points of light" setting for sure. I had all sorts of weird thoughts about Wereskalot when it turns out it's just a lame halfling village. They kinda fucked up the frontier setting and turned it into a veritable metropolis with an actual magocracy.

Oh well...

Part of why I skipped BECMI till years later. It would have been better as a new world. Not to mention its a MAMMOTH hollow world. Its what? The size of Jupiter?

Quote from: jhkim on Today at 02:38:49 AMAs a brief aside, Eirikrautha said this about me earlier:

Quote from: Eirikrautha on May 26, 2024, 10:54:09 AMReally, I feel kind of sorry for him.  I'm sure he's sitting at home, convinced he's owning us chuds, and bringing civilization to the savages on the RPGSite (though he could never frame it that way... because "colonization" and [insert woke verbiage here]).

So, around here I will sometimes argue like I think I'm right. Again, I appreciate the Mos Eisley atmosphere of this forum, and Pundit's strong free speech position. Sometimes I'll be blunt, without putting a lot into sparing other people's feelings.

Even so, I think I'm at least above-average as far as talking respectfully to people I disagree with by theRPGsite standards, rather than treating them like chuds.

Then do it in one of Pundits threads and keep doing it when he tells you to fuck off and see how long before you get deleted. You have wasted page after page in just this thread desperately trying to convert any rube you can to your cult.

Quote from: ForgottenF on May 29, 2024, 03:52:26 PMI sometimes think we need like a 20 year moratorium on the word "racism", until we can all chill out and agree on what it actually means.

Usually with each wave of this mental disease some term gets twisted out of shape. All to often its rape or racism. Also usually by people who can not differentiate fiction from reality. This 2010 wave is just exponentially worse than any prior.

The Rascal article is just a recent example. jhkim is a not so recent example.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on May 29, 2024, 07:22:16 AMBullshit.  I'm not letting you get away with your duplicity.  First, point out where in my quote I said "some stories could be racist - but this couldn't apply to Howard."  This is a blatant misrepresentation, and you know it.  Nowhere in that did I say Howard couldn't be racist.  In fact, right below the passage you quoted, I said,

He only reads what fits his narrative.

Quote from: jhkim on Today at 02:17:44 AMSo, looking over "The Last White Man", and looking for racism defined (by Eirikrautha) as "a belief that human beings have certain heritable traits due to their race that will determine that all members of one race will be inferior to the other."

Note that I will use "white race" and "black race" to describe the groups in the stories, because that is what the story describes -- but I also think this falls into racial essentialism, thinking that those are objectively important categories as far as genetics, and are important for dividing masses of people.

But sticking to just the racism part:

---

Let's take direct descriptions of the races. From the opening paragraphs, here's how the story describes the white race:

Quote from: R.E. HowardThe man was a wonder, physically. Over six feet in height, his chest and shoulders were those of a giant. Weighing far over two hundred pounds, he yet gave the impression of sinuous speed. His face was sullen, savage, almost primitive, small black eyes glittering through tangled strands of sandy hair. In one hand he clutched a rifle. A curved scimitar of surprizing proportions lay beside him.

He was a splendid example of a wonderful race. A race which reached physical perfection, sank to the depths of degeneracy and then regained the heights just before their fall. He was the last.

and also

Quote from: R.E. HowardThere had been an age when his race had ruled the world. Their cities dotted the fertile plains. Their ships had furrowed the seas, bringing back the wealth of every land. Their armies had gone forth conquering and subjugating.

None could stand before them in the more peaceful sports. Their athletes defeated all others with ease. They were all giants, physically and mentally.

Emphasis mine there in the end.

Now, the story also says that the blacks were strong, but it describes them differently. Here's a description of them:

Quote from: R.E. HowardThe blacks were physical giants, mighty fighting organisms, whose highest wish was slaughter and plunder.

and

Quote from: R.E. HowardThe black race was doomed. They were destroyers, not builders. When they slew the white men, progress ceased. The blacks reverted to savagery. They did not even know the art of making weapons. They had destroyed and could not rebuild. And they were going back to bestial savagery, and to a slaughtering of one another which even their animal-like rate of birth could not control.

Now, blacks are described as strong when here at their prime, but they are clearly mentally and morally inferior to the whites. Physically, there is some see-saw described. Whites are described as superior physically at first, but they lost their physical edge, only gaining it back towards the end. On other fronts, the blacks are clearly inferior, except for their "animal-like rate of birth" which I don't think is intended as a positive trait.

---

Beyond the direct description, though, the events of the race wars show this. The blacks lead the charge to wipe out all the white of Europe, then invade the U.S. to invade there. That is a negative portrayal of black people, which demonstrates their desire to "slaughter and plunder" even if the story hadn't used those exact words to describe the black race.

Also, in the end, they charge using only spears - which illustrates how they are unable to create weapons like rifles. The story says that they can't create weapons, and it also illustrates it by how they attack.

The general theme of the story is the danger of the black race, who will wipe out the whites if given the chance. That is the future being portrayed, which he described to his friend Tevis Clyde Smith via letter as a "warning to the white races" (from jeff37923's link).

---

The leader of the blacks was not black himself, but that isn't a counter to the idea of black inferiority. As the story describes the leader:

Quote from: R.E. HowardThey were a strong, young race. Their day was yet to come. All they lacked was a leader.

And a leader had risen. A mixed-breed Arab, whose ambition was without measure, whose genius was Satanic.

He welded them into one great mass, gave them white man's weapons, furnished by Americans and Europeans who would have as quickly and readily sold their own sisters' souls if the price were high enough.

Describing him as "Satanic" is clearly a negative. Moreover, it implies that the blacks are unable to have a leader of their own race. I don't think that is a positive for either black people or mixed-breed people.

---

I'll stop there for now.

And what's the relevance when talking about Conan? Are you claiming Conan is the protagonist?

IMNSHO the only "relevance" is you trying to establish that REH himself was a raicismist, ergo everything he wrote must be judged under that particular lens.

IIRC you mounted a staunch defense of Coyote & Crow claiming the author wasn't racist even tho his premise is that without the Huwhite devil the "diversity" would build an utopia. You were very adamant in this.

So, that piece of fiction tells us nothing about it's author but TLWM tells us everything we need to know about REH.

I'll ask you one last time, stick to Conan and argue your case about the raicismism in the Conan stories since that's the point of the thread.

Quote from: zircher on May 29, 2024, 01:12:35 AMI think my next BattleTech campaign will start in 3025 and run in real time.  That way I don't have to deal with the Clan story line for the next 25 years.  :-)

If you're going for real time, make sure to play out the weeks (or even months) it takes to transit from one star system to another.