Why SJW Entryists won't be able to really destroy D&D like they have certain other pop culture hobbies.


[video=youtube_share;oaUwY1stOFU]https://youtu.be/oaUwY1stOFU[/youtube]

Quote from: RPGPundit;1079139Why SJW Entryists won't be able to really destroy D&D like they have certain other pop culture hobbies.


[video=youtube_share;oaUwY1stOFU]https://youtu.be/oaUwY1stOFU[/youtube]

Smart play, adding the 5E PHB to the screenshot; especially since you actually contributed to it.  I own both books; and they each have RPGPundit either on, or inside of them.

Can anyone even imagine a post D&D tabletop rpg hobby?

I am sad to see Pundit fall down the Comicsgate hole. For I can not see any failure of comics when it produces things like Saga, Monstress, Locke & Key on a regular basis. Rather Comicsgate is a sad movement of failed characters.

And the same for DnD. I have a hard time to see any of the tendencies that Pundit is talking about in the video.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1079233Can anyone even imagine a post D&D tabletop rpg hobby?

Even if WOTC didn't step in, someone would have eventually bought the TSR IP after they had declared bankruptcy.

A 3e would have come out and the hobby would have rolled on even if it didn't. (Some form of D&D clone would have taken its place.)

Now, post OGL, it just gets easier to do the clone...

If "D&D" as a brand name gets shelved for some reason, then it will be merely a contest on who can make the most popular clone.

Everyone will try to be the new 'pathfinder' which will become the new 'D&D' by default.

But there are really only a few companies that are in a position to do such a thing. So we would see this 3-4 way fight for a few years until one company eventually came out on top.

A lot would depend on who would be the first to react fast enough, with a good enough game, and with enough content to fill the void of a D&D withdrawal.

And I don't think it would necessarily be who would seem to be the obvious pick for that position now.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1079233Can anyone even imagine a post D&D tabletop rpg hobby?

Once more, I am German, so: yes. It's very easy actually. D&D is just one game of many in my circles. Sure, it holds some esteem for being the origin of the hobby but that's it. There's just too many more interesting settings and systems out there.

Which is why I would want the RPG industry have more than one household name. Preferably a game that plays very differently and that isn't fantasy.

Quote from: Jaeger;1079240If "D&D" as a brand name gets shelved for some reason, then it will be merely a contest on who can make the most popular clone.

Everyone will try to be the new 'pathfinder' which will become the new 'D&D' by default.

This sounds both entirely realistic and depressingly limited at the same time. The mindset of the American RPG community, looked at as a whole, not gonna lie, is baffling.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1079233Can anyone even imagine a post D&D tabletop rpg hobby?

It's easy to imagine a post-D&D RPG hobby. It was the 1990s.

Quote from: Jaeger;1079240If "D&D" as a brand name gets shelved for some reason, then it will be merely a contest on who can make the most popular clone.

Everyone will try to be the new 'pathfinder' which will become the new 'D&D' by default.

Without D&D, the hobby will be so small that no one will even try to make an RPG. It's happening how where the biggest game store in Dallas, Madness, went from 8 shelves of RPG products, down to 4, and is now at just 2. All in about 10 years. Most of their RPG section is miniatures.  The same thing happened to comics which is how half the size that it used to be.

Meanwhile, the boardgame section has grown to fill all that space.

The future of RPGs is some split between boardgames and video games.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1079261Without D&D, the hobby will be so small that no one will even try to make an RPG. It's happening how where the biggest game store in Dallas, Madness, went from 8 shelves of RPG products, down to 4, and is now at just 2. All in about 10 years. Most of their RPG section is miniatures.  The same thing happened to comics which is how half the size that it used to be.

Meanwhile, the boardgame section has grown to fill all that space.

The future of RPGs is some split between boardgames and video games.

I remember in the 80's when people were saying the future of RPGs was video games.
Board games are big right now, my local game pub is usually packed, but there's also regular minis (Mostly X-Wing and Armada), chit and map wargamers, Pokemon, MTG and some regular RPG groups. I don't think boardgames are going to supplant RPGs any more than collectible card games did(nt).

Caveat - I haven't watched the video yet. I'm just responding to what is said on the thread here.

Quote from: JaegerIf "D&D" as a brand name gets shelved for some reason, then it will be merely a contest on who can make the most popular clone.

Everyone will try to be the new 'pathfinder' which will become the new 'D&D' by default.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1079252This sounds both entirely realistic and depressingly limited at the same time. The mindset of the American RPG community, looked at as a whole, not gonna lie, is baffling.

Still - it's not entirely off-base, though, right?  I mean, Das Schwarze Auge is still the most popular RPG in Germany, isn't it?  While there are many differences, I think it's pretty fair to describe DSA as a D&D replacement. It's Tolkienesque fantasy with character classes, at least.

At the same time, I think you're preferring more variety of RPGs - and I'm with you there. I'd love to see more successful alternatives.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1079261Without D&D, the hobby will be so small that no one will even try to make an RPG. It's happening how where the biggest game store in Dallas, Madness, went from 8 shelves of RPG products, down to 4, and is now at just 2. All in about 10 years. Most of their RPG section is miniatures.  The same thing happened to comics which is how half the size that it used to be.

Meanwhile, the boardgame section has grown to fill all that space.

The future of RPGs is some split between boardgames and video games.

Tons of people produce RPGs for free - some even with pretty amazing production values. RPGs would unquestionably continue to be produced, though the number and variety would be reduced. The great thing about tabletop RPGs - compared to video games - is that it's easily do-it-yourself (DIY).

On the other hand, even though it isn't necessary, it's still fine to have D&D as the main entry for the hobby. I didn't play D&D for many years, but I still think it was fine to have D&D out there. I think most of the second-tier RPGs like GURPS have players who tried D&D and wanted to find something similar but more to their tastes.

Short synopsis of the video:

• D&D will never die, because the OGL ensures it will survive forever. Even if WOTC collapses, or SJWs destroy the hobby, people will always be able to create OSR games.
• WOTC is trying to move the hobby from gaming to a "lifestyle brand" where people buy books to read rather than to actually game with.
• In the near future, consumers will buy D&D products to feel like they "belong to a community" rather than to actually game.
• The next edition of D&D will probably be a Woke Storygame, which will be a financial disaster.
• The SJW movement will ultimately fail, but the situation for gaming will get worse before it gets better.

I found the third bullet particularly insightful.

The OGL wasn't needed for the hobby to survive. It just gave permission to people who needed permission. Guys like Kevin Siembieda and Ken St. Andre didn't need permission to ripoff D&D and publish their own crazy thing. Kevin Crawford (Sine Nomine) doesn't use the OGL either.

"Lifestyle" branding isn't new. TSR wanted us to buy D&D coloring books, D&D puzzles, D&D novels, Dungeon boardgame, and watch that horrid D&D cartoon...and buy all the D&D licensed video games.  AKA, they wanted D&D players to surround their life with D&D stuff, aka TSR profits. I don't see the difference in WotC's approach and I'm well known for being anti-WotC.

And I don't have a problem with lifestyle branding. I've bought into the 40k lifestyle. I own minis, video games, board games, books, t-shirts and mugs from Games Workshop. I am sure plenty of WotC or Paizo fans do the same. I know "40k fans" who never played 40k and I find that weird, but hey, that's their thing. Are they part of the "40k community"? Depends on which segment because once a brand goes lifestyle, there are multiple segments of fandom.  

But Pundy's right about SJWs. They will continue shitting on the hobby, but they have already fragmented the fanbase, creating an anti-SJW arm who won't tolerate their bullshit. None of these fucks can stop small press RPGs nor control what you play in your home.

Also, SJWs are on a path to mass suicide in the next decade. A month doesn't pass without some new survey talking about how depressed these clowns are, regardless of how many anti-depressants they chow down, especially as they love victimhood and social media cliques. It's Jonestown 2: Electric Boogaloo just waiting to happen. That alone will protect the future of the hobby.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1079233Can anyone even imagine a post D&D tabletop rpg hobby?

Easily and happily.

Quote from: Aglondir;1079287people buy books to read rather than to actually game with.

Funny enough, the 5e design team stated that the goal of 5e was the exact opposite of this - to make a game for playing, not for 'lonely fun'. I'm not convinced this has really changed, though they would certainly like to make lots of money. The skimpy release schedule is designed to maintain accessibility, and contrasts with Paizo's very Lonely Fun based approach - lots & lots (& lots) of lavish books designed to read not use, and a system based around Lonely Fun character building.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1079297None of these fucks can stop small press RPGs

Not entirely sure about that. They seem to be able to control distribution outlets, payment processors, and other such choke points.

Quote from: RoyR;1079236I am sad to see Pundit fall down the Comicsgate hole. For I can not see any failure of comics when it produces things like Saga, Monstress, Locke & Key on a regular basis.

But works such as these are fairly unique and not produced on a regular basis, and certainly not promoted above the 'mainstream' titles which exploit political bias for profit.

Quote from: RoyR;1079236Rather Comicsgate is a sad movement of failed characters.

Yeah, I was especially pissed when they went after Alterna Comics and Antarctic Press.

Oh wait...

Aaanyway, like all reactionary movements they're far from perfect, and there was a ridiculous falling out after Vox Day tried to appropriate the brand and the person who 'owned' it claimed it wasn't political, but at least they don't resort to threats and doxxing to get their way.