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Most Underrated old TSR Module

Started by RPGPundit, May 19, 2012, 05:00:49 PM

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flyerfan1991

#45
May 21, 2012, 04:07:45 PM
I've always been partial to S4, The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth.  Of the original 'special' modules, it was the one that gets the least amount of love.

In the campaign I was in, we never actually got to the caverns in the first place, because we figured we'd be clever and head to the farthest away of the potential sites.  And we got caught in a landslide, naturally.

We'd worked our way back to where --in the end-- the real caverns were to be located before the campaign abruptly came to an end:  my parents had listened to Pat Robertson waaay too much and threw out our D&D stuff.

DestroyYouAlot

#46
May 21, 2012, 04:10:19 PM
Quote from: jadrax;540937Well for starters combat is only (at most) 33% of the game, and the Wizard gets spells that help with everything. But more than that, the Fighters core basis is consistency, the Fighter and Rogue pretty much always perform the same. The Wizard only gets to contribute when it really matters. However, to most people, contributing when it really matters is more more impressive than contributing all the time.*

The wizard basically has the cheat codes for the game. A well timed Sleep or Charm or Fireball effectively trivialises the content, or even worse (under a Bad GM or Module) becomes the only character class capable of resolving the plot.**

And let us be clear, by all accounts this is by design. It is not a accident or a mistake, but is what Gygax wanted the game to be like. I don't even thing its always that bad a thing, mechanical balance is a) overrated, b) unachievable and c) bland. A good GM can make sure it is not detrimental by maintaining character balance*** and by deliberately screwing over the Wizard (such as denying them spells you think are unbalanced, such as Fireball above).****

I am not sure why this rely ended up with so many footnotes.


*This is not by any means universal, and arguably people who do not feel like that are the ones that spend all their time complaining about Vancian Casting.
**There was a Dungeon Complex published, I think in White Dwarf, were casting Knock was the only way to get to the final encounter. You have to hope no one would be stupid enough to do that sort of thing today...
***very different to mechanical balance.
****Although this can be overdone, nothing makes Fighters feel even more second class than everything they fight ignoring them to attack the wizard as he's the dangerous one.

Could this go to a new thread, anyway?

To OP:  For my money, FRQ1 Haunted Halls of Eveningstar is 2e's answer to Village of Hommlet, with a little B1 mixed in (i.e., you get a base town, and the first level of a dungeon, but you're left to expand the rest yourself).
http://mightythews.blogspot.com/

a gaming blog where I ramble like a madman and make fun of shit

jadrax

#47
May 21, 2012, 04:13:54 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;540940Resolving the plot? Machete think you not understand old school.

Every module listed in this thread is a plot that can be resolved. Dungeon complexes are plot.

jadrax

#48
May 21, 2012, 04:14:34 PM
Quote from: DestroyYouAlot;540942Could this go to a new thread, anyway?

Fair point, noted.

Sacrosanct

#49
May 21, 2012, 04:22:46 PM
Quote from: jadrax;540937I don't even thing its always that bad a thing, mechanical balance is a) overrated, b) unachievable and c) bland. .


Well, I certainly won't argue with you there.  The goal should be to have fun first, balance if you can get it later.  I know some people feel cheated and can't have fun if they don't have balance, but me personally I think it's a shame that people will let their own hang ups prevent them from otherwise having fun.  I mean, we all have our hangups (mine is a system that takes too much time to resolve a combat round), so I'm not trying to come off as all holier than thou, just that there are a ton of really fun games out there that aren't balanced and it's a shame people can't enjoy them because of that particular hang up.

Edit*  I just saw DYAL's post.  My apologies for continuing to threadcap.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

DestroyYouAlot

#50
May 21, 2012, 04:30:50 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;540953Well, I certainly won't argue with you there.  The goal should be to have fun first, balance if you can get it later.  I know some people feel cheated and can't have fun if they don't have balance, but me personally I think it's a shame that people will let their own hang ups prevent them from otherwise having fun.  I mean, we all have our hangups (mine is a system that takes too much time to resolve a combat round), so I'm not trying to come off as all holier than thou, just that there are a ton of really fun games out there that aren't balanced and it's a shame people can't enjoy them because of that particular hang up.

Edit*  I just saw DYAL's post.  My apologies for continuing to threadcap.

It's a valid topic, it'd just be a shame to see this thread turn into that thread.  ;)
http://mightythews.blogspot.com/

a gaming blog where I ramble like a madman and make fun of shit

Exploderwizard

#51
May 21, 2012, 08:34:07 PM
Quote from: flyerfan1991;540941We'd worked our way back to where --in the end-- the real caverns were to be located before the campaign abruptly came to an end:  my parents had listened to Pat Robertson waaay too much and threw out our D&D stuff.

They paid for that insolence I hope? Destroying someone's property because You happen to be a whacko isn't acceptable.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

flyerfan1991

#52
May 21, 2012, 08:50:18 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;540993They paid for that insolence I hope? Destroying someone's property because You happen to be a whacko isn't acceptable.

Eh, I was thirteen at the time back in 1983, and it would have been the same result if they had found a Playboy or something.  

However, that disaster was paid back in a far more lasting way:  their grandkids are RPGers.

Exploderwizard

#53
May 21, 2012, 09:07:32 PM
Quote from: flyerfan1991;540995Eh, I was thirteen at the time back in 1983, and it would have been the same result if they had found a Playboy or something.  

However, that disaster was paid back in a far more lasting way:  their grandkids are RPGers.

Awesome :D
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Drohem

#54
May 21, 2012, 10:00:10 PM
Quote from: flyerfan1991;540995Eh, I was thirteen at the time back in 1983, and it would have been the same result if they had found a Playboy or something.  

However, that disaster was paid back in a far more lasting way:  their grandkids are RPGers.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;540998Awesome :D

Indeed! :)

Dan Davenport

#55
May 22, 2012, 02:19:13 PM
Quote from: flyerfan1991;540941We'd worked our way back to where --in the end-- the real caverns were to be located before the campaign abruptly came to an end:  my parents had listened to Pat Robertson waaay too much and threw out our D&D stuff.

I had the same thing happen to me.

Thankfully, years later, my mom had a total change of heart and helped me buy back my lost gaming stuff. She even bought the RPG in which I'm an NPC. :D

As to the topic at hand: Isle of Dread's always high up there for me. I'm also a big fan of The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth and Tomb of the Lizard King.
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Exploderwizard

#56
May 22, 2012, 02:27:21 PM
So. No love for The Forest Oracle? :D
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Sacrosanct

#57
May 22, 2012, 02:37:23 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;541184So. No love for The Forest Oracle? :D

I was almost going to mention that, but then I remembered that it really didn't stick out to me.  Wasn't bad, but I don't recall a whole lot about it because nothing was overly memorable except the neat cover art.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Exploderwizard

#58
May 22, 2012, 03:02:54 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;541189I was almost going to mention that, but then I remembered that it really didn't stick out to me.  Wasn't bad, but I don't recall a whole lot about it because nothing was overly memorable except the neat cover art.

You're kidding right?

For pure entertainment value it cannot be beat (see the 7 year old thread about it on ENW thats still going) but as an actual module its pretty terrible.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

KenHR

#59
May 22, 2012, 03:34:19 PM
Quote from: Dan Davenport;541174Isle of Dread's always high up there for me.

Ooh, yeah...good one.
For fuck\'s sake, these are games, people.

And no one gives a fuck about your ignore list.


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