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Author Topic: Picard  (Read 23441 times)

Doom

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Picard
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2019, 08:11:08 PM »
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1096969
The evidence for people disliking Discovery because of cast diversity as shown by that article is a handful of tweets, the most popular of which barely breaks a score of likes in the screenshot. This feels too much like an attempt to push the 'all critics are racist/sexist/misogynist/homophobic/transphobic/Islamophobic/polyphobic/diablophobic' narrative that we've seen before.

   I only watched the first episode of Discovery and didn't follow up because a) I generally don't use streaming services, and b) Michael Burnham reminded me too much of Janeway … SFDebris' Janeway.


I loathed Janeway, but gained great appreciation for Mulgrew in OitnB. Turns out a great actress still can't save horrid writing (though when the writing starting getting weak in Orange, she could carry it).
(taken during hurricane winds)

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Spinachcat

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Picard
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2019, 09:34:37 PM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1097125
I have to admit that Spinachcat opened that door, not deadDMwalking.


True dat!


Quote from: deadDMwalking;1096963
Star Trek's inception could easily be described as 'SJW'.


And RPGs were never inclusive until WotC got woke!

1984 = 2019 is our new math.

Ratman_tf

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Picard
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2020, 09:02:24 PM »
Picard is going full anti-Trump/anti-Brexit

Yay. I'm looking forward to being lectured by Patrick Stewart in-between his adult-diaper changes.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 09:12:13 PM by Ratman_tf »
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Armchair Gamer

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Picard
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2020, 09:43:57 AM »
This is going to be early TNG with better production values, isn't it?

Ratman_tf

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Picard
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2020, 10:27:14 AM »
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1118959
This is going to be early TNG with better production values, isn't it?

I wouldn't dignify it with that comparison. Early TNG at least was trying to be a new Star Trek. Kelvin/Discovery style Trek is mindless action and drama gibberish.



I see no indications that Picard is going to be any better.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Shrieking Banshee

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Picard
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2020, 10:48:27 AM »
Let this zombie die already. Sometimes dead is better.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1097118
Maybe I don't understand what you mean when you use the term.

Spinachat made it political but il say this.
Star Trek very much did have SJW influences that were overlooked and eventually metastasized into the nonsense culture we have now.

It was lesser and tempered with at least a level of pragmatism and because the original series was built in the shadow of the cold war it didn't go completely pie in the sky stupid (No ****ing currency in the federation). But as that sort of thing ended it did very much indulge in SJW crap.
That said I still very much like Deep Space 9 for having a level of self-awareness. Even if only a little bit.

Armchair Gamer

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Picard
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2020, 11:18:30 AM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1118961
I wouldn't dignify it with that comparison. Early TNG at least was trying to be a new Star Trek. Kelvin/Discovery style Trek is mindless action and drama gibberish.

I see no indications that Picard is going to be any better.


  Well, early TNG was terribly preachy and might have been SJW if that ideology had been around. (Roddenberry would have been onboard with most of the progressivism, but would also have been heavily #MeTooed.)

Koltar

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Picard
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2020, 11:17:05 PM »
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1096581
And that show was one good season and three of utter shit.

Not much of a lose in my opinion.


Yeah, and your opinion is full of Crap.
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Koltar

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Picard
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2020, 11:20:00 PM »
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1096963
Star Trek's inception could easily be described as 'SJW'.

No, it couldn't - because that damn term wasn't around in 1964

You and the other cynical pessimists can just shut up and let the rest of us have fun watching what looks like Good Stuff.

- Ed C.
The return of 'You can't take the Sky From me!'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUn-eN8mkDw&feature=rec-fresh+div

This is what a really cool FANTASY RPG should be like :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WnjVUBDbs

Still here, still alive, at least Seven years now...

Kiero

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Picard
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2020, 06:09:14 AM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1118923
Picard is going full anti-Trump/anti-Brexit

Yay. I'm looking forward to being lectured by Patrick Stewart in-between his adult-diaper changes.

I saw this the other day. Went from "probably not" to "definitely not".
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Shrieking Banshee

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Picard
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2020, 07:35:54 AM »
Quote from: Koltar;1119116
No, it couldn't - because that damn term wasn't around in 1964

You and the other cynical pessimists can just shut up and let the rest of us have fun watching what looks like Good Stuff.

- Ed C.

Indeed. Don't ask questions . Just consume product and get excited for next product.

Armchair Gamer

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Picard
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2020, 09:31:56 AM »
Quote from: Koltar;1119116
No, it couldn't - because that damn term wasn't around in 1964
- Ed C.


  But to be fair, Star Trek has always had that progressive tendency. Sometimes it gets muted by the demands of the time and other creatives and stakeholders (TOS), sometimes it gets questioned and challenged (DS9), other times it gets to burst forth and strut in all its arrogance (early TNG). We'll see how Picard turns out, but it's sounding like it's going to be closest to the third.

deadDMwalking

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Picard
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2020, 11:46:40 AM »
Quote from: Koltar;1119116
No, it couldn't - because that damn term wasn't around in 1964

You and the other cynical pessimists can just shut up and let the rest of us have fun watching what looks like Good Stuff.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1119142
But to be fair, Star Trek has always had that progressive tendency. Sometimes it gets muted by the demands of the time and other creatives and stakeholders (TOS), sometimes it gets questioned and challenged (DS9), other times it gets to burst forth and strut in all its arrogance (early TNG). We'll see how Picard turns out, but it's sounding like it's going to be closest to the third.

I don't understand or agree with people trying to use the term SJW as a pejorative when they really mean 'progressive'.  My point is that Star Trek was a very progressive TV show.  The show reflected a level of multiculturalism that wasn't common for the time period.  In both the original Star Trek and Next Generation, the emphasis was on finding a way to live peaceably with aliens, not shoot them in the face.  The idea of a world at peace with every child having a chance to reach their full potential regardless of circumstances of birth is exactly the kind of progressivism that people on this board like to attack 'SJWs' for.
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
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Shrieking Banshee

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Picard
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2020, 12:25:31 PM »
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1119150
I don't understand or agree with people trying to use the term SJW as a pejorative when they really mean 'progressive'.

Alright, let's work on that. I feel like this is a topic I wanted to discuss with you forever. If a conversation begins with a misunderstanding then, of course, it will go nowhere. First off define what you mean as "Progressive".
I find that by defining itself as "Progressive" it's like calling an ideology "Good-ism". You define yourself as a good, which sets you up to perpetually view your own position as infallible. So you define as what you see as progressive and set down your values.

Could you also imagine a motive that's not thought in bad faith, or coming from an area of ignorance or malicious attempts to preserve their own privilege that would explain how somebody could dislike progressive policies?

Quote
In both the original Star Trek and Next Generation, the emphasis was on finding a way to live peaceably with aliens, not shoot them in the face.

For instance, what bothers me very much so in Star Trek is that it is about co-existence....By generally eroding any sense of identity from each culture. It was multicultural, but each culture meant absolutely nothing in the face of a blandish monoculture. I understand this came from a time of fear from the cold war so at the time it felt important to curtail individual expression and freedom in exchange for survival. But at what cost.

The Borg serves as a fantastic example of what "Existence and Cooperation at the expense of everything else" is, and DS9 rightly pointed out that it's the closest to the federation in its values. The borg see themselves as the ultimate species. They value multiculturalism and every individual but only in a token sense. In their perspective, these differences cause war, conflict, and destroy themselves losing their uniqueness forever. The borg ensures that every individual lives a perfect infinite life. All their cultural uniqueness and heritage perfectly preserved in data banks. Outside of when their expanding, Borg sectors are peaceful, productive and mostly quiet as long as bad writers aren't getting involved.
The borgs don't have an internal conflict (Outside of a few minor episodes), generally exist in lives of peace without circumstances of birth getting in the way allowed to reach their full potential as a collective.

So I as an indivual don't see ultimate egalitarianism as the only virtue as part of human life. If this means this brings difference, suffering, and conflict then so be it. Because the alternative is the borg.

This really rubbed me the wrong way in DS9 when Bajor just becomes another federation point, with its aspects of life slowly eroding away because everybody in the universe thinks the same and wants the same things. It was especially egregious with the Ferengi. I remember one youtube comment that was like "I wanted the ferengi to become less sexist but I didn't want them to stop being ferengi!"

Ratman_tf

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« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2020, 01:36:34 PM »
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1119156
This really rubbed me the wrong way in DS9 when Bajor just becomes another federation point, with its aspects of life slowly eroding away because everybody in the universe thinks the same and wants the same things. It was especially egregious with the Ferengi. I remember one youtube comment that was like "I wanted the ferengi to become less sexist but I didn't want them to stop being ferengi!"

Heh. I could talk about the Ferengi. They were a blatant strawman dig at captialism, and a caricature of sexism, past usefulness for storytelling and right into propoganda.
DS9 did a lot of heavy lifting to make the Ferengi more palatable as actual people, but I'd really have liked to see them as Capitalist, Objectivist kind of anti-Federation but still decent people. Hearing a Ferengi quote the Rules of Aquisition that are mustache twirling bad "Exploitation begins at home!" is silly fun, but reduces the Ferengi to comic relief.

The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung