"Once you start down the path of the Dark Side, forever will it dominate your destiny.  Consume you it will."

Horseshit.

Luke uses the Dark Side beginning in Episode Four, when in rage after Kenobi's death(just look at his face), he makes pinpoint blaster shots across the landing bay to kill troopers and blow the door controls.

He continues doing things in anger all through EP. 4 and 5 and finally beats Vader standing triumphant over him with a look of evil glee on his face.  If Palpatine hadn't opened his piehole, Luke probably would have snuffed Vader by himself.

So Luke strolls merrily down the Dark Path all the way up to the Abyss, then skips merrily back.

Not to mention that if fucking Vader can be redeemed, anyone can.

So is the "All-Light, No Dark at All" preaching just dogma, Jedi Propaganda, with a balance of Dark and Light being the "True Way"?

Ohhhh, it's even worse than that.

"Darth Vader BETRAYED and MURDERED your FATHER (Subtext: So you should come with me to train as a Jedi and avenge him)."

They are the losing side in a religious war; who are training the son of one of the winners to assassinate his own father. All without letting him know that it's his father.

I'm not saying the Emperor and Vader aren't evil, but Obi-Wan and Yoda most certainly are not good.

EDIT: And yes, I know Yoda says Luke wasn't 'ready for the burden'. But he's at least 20 years old if not older and, I dunno, maybe having your wise mentor work through it with you is better than just saying "Yup, he's your Dad. Now go do your job and kill him."

Quote from: CRKrueger;940228"Once you start down the path of the Dark Side, forever will it dominate your destiny.  Consume you it will."

Luke uses the Dark Side beginning in Episode Four, when in rage after Kenobi's death(just look at his face), he makes pinpoint blaster shots across the landing bay to kill troopers and blow the door controls.

He continues doing things in anger all through EP. 4 and 5 and finally beats Vader standing triumphant over him with a look of evil glee on his face.  If Palpatine hadn't opened his piehole, Luke probably would have snuffed Vader by himself.

"Start down the dark path", define exactly what Yoda meant. (You can't because he didn't)
Your examples are not very good, require reading more into the character than is presented by the movies, and is completely negated by the end of ROTJ, where Luke is tempted by the Dark Side to become the big hero who killed Vader and the Emperor... and he refuses, because he sees what he'd become to do it, literally when he looks at Vader's stump and his mechanical hand.

QuoteSo Luke strolls merrily down the Dark Path all the way up to the Abyss, then skips merrily back.

And then does a pirouette and the cha-cha? Or is it a waltz followed by some tap-dancing?

QuoteNot to mention that if fucking Vader can be redeemed, anyone can.

So is the "All-Light, No Dark at All" preaching just dogma, Jedi Propaganda, with a balance of Dark and Light being the "True Way"?

Spelt out throughout the prequels was the point that the Jedi are not perfect. Some fans seem to have run with this to the conclusion that the Jedi are EVIL AND STUPID AND CORRUPTED AND DID IT ALL INTENTIONALLY TO FUCK WITH EVERYONE.
When they were simply not perfect, and despite all their efforts, one Jedi fell spectacularly.

IMO the idea that there can be some balance is what causes Jedi to fall. That they are the special ones who can ignore the rules and get away with it. Maybe they can, but the odds are going to be against them, and if they fall, they will have the amazing powers of the Jedi, and no responsibility to use it wisely.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;940239. . . Luke is tempted by the Dark Side to become the big hero who killed Vader and the Emperor... and he refuses, because he sees what he'd become to do it, literally when he looks at Vader's stump and his mechanical hand . . . .

After completely losing his shit and chopping off a Sith Lord's said hand over somebody talking about getting with his sister.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;940243After completely losing his shit and chopping off a Sith Lord's said hand over somebody talking about getting with his sister.

Exactly.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;940239"Start down the dark path", define exactly what Yoda meant. (You can't because he didn't)

Apparently it doesn't mean calling upon anger, rage and aggression when you use the Force, because Luke does that all over the place.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;940239completely negated by the end of ROTJ, where Luke is tempted by the Dark Side to become the big hero who killed Vader and the Emperor... and he refuses, because he sees what he'd become to do it, literally when he looks at Vader's stump and his mechanical hand.

...tempted to strike down the unarmed Emperor, and he actually strikes, intending to kill the Emperor, only stopped by Vader.
...tempted to fight with Vader, even though he doesn't want to, but loses that one too, being goaded into it with the threat to Leia, screaming, charging and fueled by rage, beating Vader down.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;940239And then does a pirouette and the cha-cha? Or is it a waltz followed by some tap-dancing?

Describe it how you need to, but if you think what happened represents "forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will." You need an English lesson.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;940239Spelt out throughout the prequels

I've heard that word before, Prequels, but...no, still don't know what that means.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;940239Some fans seem to have run with this to the conclusion that the Jedi are EVIL AND STUPID AND CORRUPTED AND DID IT ALL INTENTIONALLY TO FUCK WITH EVERYONE.

You visit SW fan boards? You poor bastard.  I'll pray for you.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;940239When they were simply not perfect, and despite all their efforts, one Jedi fell spectacularly.

If you bought what Yoda was selling, his son should have too.

Shit just doesn't work the way Yoda and Ben said it did.

There is no irrevocable choice that you cannot come back from.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;940244Exactly.

No, not exactly. It's not until Luke flips his nut over Vader saying he'll turn Leia that Luke can actually beat Vader. Luke's rage is what gives him the power to defeat a Sith Lord.

Anakin is supposed to be the chosen one to bring "balence" to the force.  The way I read that he does.  Not by killing the emperor at the end of Jedi but by destroying the Jedi at the end of Sith.  

The force needed balancing because the Jedi were too powerful. Sinking into arrogance and absolutism.  Hubris is there great sin and ultamate downfall.  They are blind to the Sith in their midists and by expecting perfection from Anikin drive him straight into his arms.  (Too bad about the younglings)

I see a strong metaphore between the Jedi's arrogance and Anikins down fall, and corruption in American politics.  The press and the establishment are thr Jedi the voters are Anikin and Trump is the Emperor.

Well, thats what you get for listening to Hitler and Bert from Sesame Street

Quote from: Headless;940250Anakin is supposed to be the chosen one to bring "balence" to the force.  The way I read that he does.  Not by killing the emperor at the end of Jedi but by destroying the Jedi at the end of Sith.  

The force needed balancing because the Jedi were too powerful. Sinking into arrogance and absolutism.  Hubris is there great sin and ultamate downfall.  They are blind to the Sith in their midists and by expecting perfection from Anikin drive him straight into his arms.  (Too bad about the younglings)

I see a strong metaphore between the Jedi's arrogance and Anikins down fall, and corruption in American politics.  The press and the establishment are thr Jedi the voters are Anikin and Trump is the Emperor.

The way I read it is that the Jedi should never have listened to some stupid prophecy in the first place, and actions are being fitted to it after the fact. Mostly because when you have lots of people viewing the future and then taking steps to change it, your ancient Chosen One Prophecy is probably a bunch of bunk after about 5 minutes. There is no Chosen One, just stupid people making stupid decisions.

"Once you start down the path of the Dark Side, forever will it dominate your destiny.  Consume you it will."

Quote from: Black Vulmea;940247No, not exactly. It's not until Luke flips his nut over Vader saying he'll turn Leia that Luke can actually beat Vader. Luke's rage is what gives him the power to defeat a Sith Lord.

He sure does. But he doesn't beat the Dark Side until he throws his saber away.

Quote from: CRKrueger;940246There is no irrevocable choice that you cannot come back from.

Obviously, since Anakin was redeemed.
But the great danger of a fallen Jedi is also shown in Vader.

And so, when did Luke start down the dark path? Was it when he VIOLENTLY and ANGRILY SCREAMED AT HIS UNCLE over not being able to go to Toshi Station to pick up some power converters? Maybe it was when he SADISTICALLY shot down the pursuing TIE fighters when fleeing the Death Star? I mean, goddamn, you can see Luke laughing at the deaths of those TIE pilots! He's practically a psychopath at that point!

Quote from: Ratman_tf;940266Obviously, since Anakin was redeemed.
But the great danger of a fallen Jedi is also shown in Vader.

And so, when did Luke start down the dark path? Was it when he VIOLENTLY and ANGRILY SCREAMED AT HIS UNCLE over not being able to go to Toshi Station to pick up some power converters? Maybe it was when he SADISTICALLY shot down the pursuing TIE fighters when fleeing the Death Star? I mean, goddamn, you can see Luke laughing at the deaths of those TIE pilots! He's practically a psychopath at that point!

So, is this some kind of weak attempt at distraction from the fact that Luke was drawing on the Dark Side when he finally beat Vader or just totally pointless raving?

Quote from: CRKrueger;940273So, is this some kind of weak attempt at distraction from the fact that Luke was drawing on the Dark Side when he finally beat Vader or just totally pointless raving?

Luke was drawing on the Dark Side when he beat Vader. That's pretty clear from the movie.
Yoda was exaggerating when he said that the Dark Side would dominate someone's destiny. That's clear as well.

It doesn't mean that acting from anger is perfectly okey fine for Jedi.