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Yoda and Ben are Full of Shit

Started by crkrueger, January 12, 2017, 03:43:54 PM

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crkrueger

#15
Quote from: Ratman_tf;940281Luke was drawing on the Dark Side when he beat Vader. That's pretty clear from the movie.
Yoda was exaggerating when he said that the Dark Side would dominate someone's destiny. That's clear as well.

It doesn't mean that acting from anger is perfectly okey fine for Jedi.

The interesting thing I think would be if in Episode 8, we find out Luke's failure in successfully re-creating the Jedi Order, and being responsible for the Knights of Ren fiasco and the creation of NeoVader90210 was due to the fact that he did stray from the path, he never completed his training, he beat Vader using the Dark Side and only turned away from Falling at the last moment, which meant he wasn't the One to reinstate the Jedi Order, Rey is.

That makes Old Luke a Moses-like figure.  Because of his failing, he cannot go the whole way, just like Yoda told him.

#MakeYodaWiseAgain
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Omega

Jesus I'd never watch another SW movie if they pulled that sort of crummy "Once a crook allways a crook" BS.

Half the series has been saying "fuck you" and redeeming people one way or another. Even Boba Fett and Vendress get some.

Headless

Jumping movies to "Enter the Dragon" we learn from another Wise master, we need "emotional content, not anger" though it seams anger will do in a pinch.  

Also Luke cand over come the Dark side until he confronts his "dark" feelings.  At the start he ingnores the danger.  There is no emotional maturity down that road.

Spinachcat

Quote from: CRKrueger;940282and the creation of NeoVader90210

OMGpeedmypants


Quote from: CRKrueger;940228So Luke strolls merrily down the Dark Path all the way up to the Abyss, then skips merrily back.

Not to mention that if fucking Vader can be redeemed, anyone can.

So is the "All-Light, No Dark at All" preaching just dogma, Jedi Propaganda, with a balance of Dark and Light being the "True Way"?


The redeemed ghost Vader never made sense to me.

1000 evil acts + 1 "okay" act = Holy Ghost Dude? doesn't work in my book.

Maybe...Vader wasn't redeemed.

Maybe....all Power Jedi Masters get to be ghosts.

Maybe...Anakin in death just likes his kid.

I don't have the original laser discs, but what are the interactions between the Yoda, Ben and Anakin ghosts?

I heard Crybaby Vader got CGI'd into the current edition DVD. What about the current interactions?


Quote from: Tristram Evans;940251Well, thats what you get for listening to Hitler and Bert from Sesame Street

Those two are always causing shit.

Omega

Theres occasionally been some implications in the peripheral material that sometimes being turned to the dark side is akin to being possessed by "something" or a sort of subtle mind control/mind alteration. And its also been depicted as allmost like an addictive drug.

So breaking that control would equal redemption as its a return of the real person.

Spike

Mark Hamill is on record saying he really wanted Luke Skywalker to have already fallen to teh Dark Side by the time he defeated Vader. His motivation wasn't redeeming Vader, it was to make Vader HIS henchman and replace the Emperor.

Lucas didn't like it, but you can sort of see Hamill trying a bit of that spin during the lightning scene if you squint real hard.
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Barghest

Quote from: CRKrueger;940228Luke uses the Dark Side beginning in Episode Four, when in rage after Kenobi's death(just look at his face), he makes pinpoint blaster shots across the landing bay to kill troopers and blow the door controls.

I'm not buying it, as that's something that anyone who's a good shot with a blaster could have done. (Hell, Lando did that much in ESB.) And Luke's been playing whack-a-mole with whomp rats since before he got pubes.

And I'm not ready to equate "makes a scrunchy angry face" with "consumed by the Dark Side". That's vague enough that it could just as reasonably imply that Luke was consumed by the Dark Side when he was being strangled by the dianoga, too. "Make a scrunchy angry face" was the cornerstone of Mark Hamill's acting ability at the time, after all.
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Dumarest

You guys are aware Darth Vader isn't Luke's father at all, right? I never bought it. :p

Warboss Squee

Vader being redeemed at all is a cop out. Anakin was shown to be an emotionally stunted and incredibly selfish character. It's always about what he wants and killing Palpatine is no different.

He didn't chuck the wrinkly old fucker down the reactor shaft out of live or goodness, he did it because Luke was his kid and he wanted Luke beside him and Palpatine threatened to take that away.

Hell the prequels make a lie of the knights errant vibe Ben and Yoda have and make them part of an oppressive regime that actively lies to the government that provides everything they need or want, and honestly seem to believe that toppling the Republic because "Hey your boss is a bad guy" will have zero repercussions.

Headless

Anikin did bring balance to the Force.  There were tonnes of Jedi and only 2 Sith before Him.  After wards two of each.  

When he's gone things start to get out of balance again.

Warboss Squee

Quote from: Headless;968329Anikin did bring balance to the Force.  There were tonnes of Jedi and only 2 Sith before Him.  After wards two of each.  

When he's gone things start to get out of balance again.

And when Vader's dead and only Luke is left? He tries to build another Jedi Order and Sith magic their way out of the galaxy's asshole and start shit all over again.

Fanfuckingtastic.

Ratman_tf

Quote from: Headless;968329Anikin did bring balance to the Force.  There were tonnes of Jedi and only 2 Sith before Him.  After wards two of each.  

When he's gone things start to get out of balance again.

So the real solution is for the Jedi and Sith to commmit suicide/kill each other off until their numbers are always exactly equal!

(I'm pretty sure "the balance" isn't some census problem.)
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Spinachcat

Quote from: Tristram Evans;940251Well, thats what you get for listening to Hitler and Bert from Sesame Street

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1057[/ATTACH]

Snowman0147

Actually the new siths are not siths at all.  They are actually closer to gray jedis as the Knights of Ren uses both sides of the force.  Hell it is suspected that the new emperor may actually be Mace Wendo.

Pyromancer

Quote from: Ratman_tf;968365So the real solution is for the Jedi and Sith to commmit suicide/kill each other off until their numbers are always exactly equal!

If there are a few thousand Jedi and a few thousand Sith, a few dozen more on either side doesn't shift the balance that much and can be corrected by adjusting the enrollment numbers the following years.
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