Quote from: J Arcane;378066The blatant one-sidedness and elitism presented in this thread is genuinely pathetic.

The point of the OP was to see if it was possible to create a non-40 Space Marines organisation that made sense outside of the craziness of the setting.

Their fervour and the general zealousness (cue O Fortuna) is fun, but at the same time they are also as far removed from humanity as the Emperor they serve. While I'm interested in Deathwatch and the 40k universe, I still remain unsure as to how they would be fun to play: we all know they spend their time praying or shooting things. Theirs is not a deep existence. It is not meant to be ebcause they come from a wargame.

But in a setting that isn't based on a wargame, but with similar ideas, how could something like that work.

Quote from: kryyst;377492It did but it's not worth it.  Horribly broken.  Taken all the actual bugs out of the equation there's just tons of stuff missing and bad choices in general.

Case in point Online games don't count against anything.  You get no exp from online games at all other then the satisfaction of I dunno watching your opponent disconnect if you beat him up for a couple points early in the game.

GAH gotta stop talking about it.  The frustration with it was horrible.  Luckily I traded it in and only lost $10 on it.

Sounds like almost every console game I've ever played. Sadly I don't think I can run the pc version and there's no demo I can try either. All I remember of the tabeltop version is that it took a hour to score.

Back on topic....

If you want to put "space marines" into a more serious setting, it can be done. They'd be a hardcore elite military force meant to function in space and that had perhaps submitted to surgical enhancements, implants, etc. to make them more suited to fighting and operating in space.

You just need to make a serious, or at least more serious that 40k (how hard is that) setting that creates a valid need for such people, and make up reasonable equipment and weapons for therm.

It might help you to reflect on what the term "Marines" actually means. Originally marines were simply security troops on board ocean vessels in the days when "Stand by to repel boarders!" was a legitimate command. They grew out of that into a special, rapid deployment mobile force like we see today, but if you have a setting where starships get boarded somehow then the marines move back to their original role.

Take that and run with it.

Quote from: The Butcher;377444Anyone who wants a different take on some of the same themes as WH40K, should check out Christopher Moeller's Iron Empires comics. Volume 1 (aptly named Faith Conquers) has a theocratic space empire threatened by alien invaders (albeit of a far more insidious sort) and defended by brutal space marines in big powered armor suits, only making some sense.

This, in its entirety.

Chris Moeller cites Traveller as a influence on Iron Empires, by the way.

Quote from: J Arcane;378066The blatant one-sidedness and elitism presented in this thread is genuinely pathetic.

Bitching about 40k space marines is kind of like picking a pepper out of some five alarm chili and bitching that it is too spicy.

I feel like writing up more realistic space marines shouldn't be that hard, sense it has been a topic of science fiction longer than I've been alive.

It isn't like 40k invented space marines. They just did something newer with it.

Quote from: mhensley;377415++ Be strong in your ignorance. ++

++ An open mind is like a castle, who's gates have been unbarred and thrown wide open ++

Quote from: Cranewings;378356++ An open mind is like a castle, who's gates have been unbarred and thrown wide open ++

++Orks! Orks! Orks! Orks! Orks! Orks! Orks! Orks! Orks! Orks! Orks! Orks! ++

Quote from: Cranewings;378355Bitching about 40k space marines is kind of like picking a pepper out of some five alarm chili and bitching that it is too spicy.

I feel like writing up more realistic space marines shouldn't be that hard, sense it has been a topic of science fiction longer than I've been alive.

It isn't like 40k invented space marines. They just did something newer with it.

What I mean is, the complete orthodoxy of interpretations, the total unwillingness to suspend disbelief and refusal to accept premise, the total ignorance of the very subject matter and the cultural and historic referants used.

The only thing stupid I see is the thread.

The 40k setting is over 20 years old. It has been approached from every conceivable angle from comic to tragic, and written of to dizzying detail by a legion of authors.

Staking your claim and declaring such a narrowminded view of the subject serves no purpose other than to make one look like a pretentious tool.

And I'm the pretentious tool around here, so back the fuck off!

Most of the 40k universe has become increasingly stupid as it goes along; compared to what 40k was like when it was first conceived.

RPGpundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;378479Most of the 40k universe has become increasingly stupid as it goes along; compared to what 40k was like when it was first conceived.

RPGpundit

Point proven.

Quote from: RPGPundit;378479Most of the 40k universe has become increasingly stupid as it goes along; compared to what 40k was like when it was first conceived.

RPGpundit

They've certainly dumbed down the rules with successive editions.

In 2e, the special or heavy weapon in a squad could fire at a different target than the normal squad members. I believe the rule went like "Even the most obtuse ork can spot the different between a target one meter tall and a target 3 meters tall, and the people trusted with the special or heavy weapons will be trained to use them effectively and not waste a tank killing shot on an infantryman."

So the guy with the lascannon or missile launcher could fire at a tank in range and LoS while the squad fired at an infantry squad nearby.

3e rules killed this, and the guy with the tank busting lascannon had to fire at the same infantry squad the main squad fired at or the whole squad had to fire at the tank, wasting their regular weapons fire if you wanted to attack the tank. The whole squad could only fire at one target, regardless of weapons.

Likewise, some tanks had weapons mounted on opposing sides. Well, if you fired the port sponson at a target not visible to the starboard sponson, you could NOT fire the starboard sponson at a target it could see as the whole vehicle had to fire at one single target.

That was just idiotic. I never saw 4e rules and don't even know what version they're up to now.

Quote from: Cylonophile;378481That was just idiotic. I never saw 4e rules and don't even know what version they're up to now.

It's gotten worse.  The last ruleset for 40k I looked at basically said "There's six general scenario types you can play.  Here they are." so rather than you saying "Let's pit our armies against each other" or "Oh hey what if you start out in the middle of the map and Starship-Troopers like the Tyranids just burrow up around you and you have to fight 'em off" the game now dictates exactly how you'll set up your game and play.

I was told this was for tournament consistency.

Quote from: J Arcane;378480Point proven.

Victory!

Quote from: thedungeondelver;378506I was told this was for tournament consistency.

So Warhammer has caught up with D&D.