Quote from: Settembrini;377285I´ve read somewhere that the honcho in charge after Jackson and Livingston left was a crypto-Nazi who was allegedly not too ironic about it.

Ok this is getting weird now.

First gay space marines now Ayn Rand takes over GW?

What's next, Grand Moff Tarkin playing with toy soldiers?

You're right. The idea of short-haired, identically-dressed muscular gay men is pretty far-fetched.

Nemesis the Warlock.

Once you read the Nemesis comics from '81, '82 space Marines make perfect sense (especially if you add in Aliens)

Quote from: Broken-Serenity;377274There was also a lost legion known as the rainbow warriors (pretty sure there secret is easier to figure out)

They're actually a group of environmentalists who believe they're fulfilling a Native American prophecy?

Quote from: GoOrange;377300They're actually a group of environmentalists who believe they're fulfilling a Native American prophecy?

No that'd be the Blood Angels.

(No, really.)

Quote from: jibbajibba;377299Nemesis the Warlock.

Once you read the Nemesis comics from '81, '82 space Marines make perfect sense (especially if you add in Aliens)

I've said this myself. 2000ad was a hgue influence on the sensibilities of GW and none more so than Nemesis the Warlock. Maybe the Emperor secretly goes around trying to find bodies to inhabit in order to personally cleanse the universe of aliens.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;377280Are the Tau what we would consider good? Or just a more media friendly version of the Borg.

Live in a utilitarian society where the main theme seems to be "Look, we don't care what the fuck you do just so long as you do as we ask when we ask" versus space nazis?  I can live with that.  Last time I read the Tau weren't sacrificing thousands of people a day to keep a god emperor alive (undead, really, but...)

Space Marines are awesome as they are. They pretty much are *the* reason I'm interested in Warhammer 40K, because they make me think of Aliens. Change them, and I'll just shrug the game away.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;377263At their best they are zealous heavily armed militants who never say die, but do like saying 'for the emperor!'.

At their worst they are genetically egineered inhuman monstrosities in oversized impossible power armour and zealous heavily armed militants who would as happily kill other humans just for looking at them funny.

Adeptus Astartes sounds cool. Space Marines just sounds goofy. They are a weird mix of modern SF gung ho militarism and medieval sensibilities and I've never been 100% comfortable with that dichotomy.

How would you do them differently, in the context of an rpg?

Are you referring to the WARHAMMER 40K universe?

There are other SF settings that have had "Space Marines". Many of those do not have an "Emperor" involved in the human or Terran government.

EDIT: Okay I've just backtracked and re-read the whole thread. The WH40K universe pretty much sucks.
There aren't ANY "Good Guys" or Heroes in that whole universe.

- Ed C.

Indeed, 40k Space Marines are completely ridiculous...except in that particular, inane, universe, where they fight right in. Gotta give the game its premise, and after you do so, accepting natural consequences is natural.

Honestly, I think GW lost its way when they abandoned Blood Bowl and Space Hulk.

Quote from: jeff37923;377346Honestly, I think GW lost its way when they abandoned Blood Bowl and Space Hulk.

Blood Bowl is the finest game GW has ever produced.  They stopped fully supporting it when they realized it was going to overtake all their other products.

Fortunately it continues to live on with more fan support then ever was given to it originally.  GW at least has the decency to still cary the mini lines and the game again.  Unfortunately only directly through them and not in their GW stores.  There are also other online companies like Impact that are making fantasy footbal figs that work well in Blood Bowl.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;377267I'm not being entirely serious.

But I'm curious as to how to create a Space Marine type organisation that can function outside the absurdity of the zealous dark millenium.

The bare bones of a functional 'Space Marine' sort of organization is right there.

Religious/Monastic warrior order?  Check.  People do weird shit in the name of faith, including biological augmentation (circumcision...) and wearing impractical shit (pointy hats for everyone!).

A suit of 'powered armor' is going to be big and ungainly looking, its just a matter of how you want it to look beyond that.  Space Marines are disproportionate, but that's a consequence of the artistic style (art and mini's both) rather than an engineering necessity.

Weapons: The Bolter is nothing more than a high velocity grenade launcher. It IS somewhat laughable that they keep going on about what it is, when the short form is so prosaic.  Obviously if you have dudes who, in the name of their faith, become inhumanly augemented killing machines and wear further augmentation in an exoskeletal power suit, giving them absurdly oversized guns isn't a bad idea at all, but an excellent one. THey become mobile light artillery.  40k, naturally enough, fails to recognize that outside of a few specialized squads.

For a more 'serious' take on the same concept you can look at the grimson's in Fading Suns, but they are a minor element and not covered in high detail. I'm sure there are others I am aware of that momentarily escape my memory.

The original space marines are the mobile infantry of Starship Troopers. Now, they lack the religious fanaticism but they are crypto-fascist (in the book) or OTT-ironic fascist (in the original Verhoeven movie--can't say about the anime or any other incarnations). Either way, fairly plausible, if challenging to modern democratic ideals.

About Space Hulk: GW did a third edition, released last year, I think as a limited edition. You can still find copies if you're willing to pay. (Probably everybody knows this, but I'll mention it anyway. In fact SH was recently my first introduction to the 40K universe. Quite fun, but I'm never going to buy it--too pricey, I'm not into painting minis, and the set takes up too much space.)

Quote from: kryyst;377348Blood Bowl is the finest game GW has ever produced.  
...

Fortunately it continues to live on with more fan support then ever was given to it originally.

It also lives on the XBox 360.  I visited a buddy of mine a couple of weekends ago and he's like: Wanna play some Blood Bowl?  I said Hell yeah and he holds up the video game.  The mode we played is true to the tabletop game:

http://www.bloodbowl-game.com/