Quote from: Krazz on May 18, 2024, 03:50:03 PMI'm pretty sure he's never read any Howard either. No beauty? Good luck finding an ugly woman in Howard's works. They're there, but few and far between. No grace? In Conan's first story, he's saved at the will of a god to save the world from evil. No romance? Conan often gave up his dreams to save a woman. And these claims of "overt racism" never seem to have any evidence.

I'm not endorsing all the claims of the article from the original post. However, this last claim is ridiculous. There is tons of evidence of racism on the part of R.E. Howard. Here is the start of his story "The Last White Man",

Quote from: R.E. HowardTHE MAN SHIVERED in the coolness of the early morning. He shifted his body to relieve the pressure on his elbows.

Cautiously he peered up over the great boulder in front of him, and down the mountain side. Fire twinkled there and the man cursed. An obscene song floated up to him and his curses deepened. The song was in a rich, guttural voice.

The man was a wonder, physically. Over six feet in height, his chest and shoulders were those of a giant. Weighing far over two hundred pounds, he yet gave the impression of sinuous speed. His face was sullen, savage, almost primitive, small black eyes glittering through tangled strands of sandy hair. In one hand he clutched a rifle. A curved scimitar of surprising proportions lay beside him.

He was a splendid example of a wonderful race. A race which reached physical perfection, sank to the depths of degeneracy and then regained the heights just before their fall. He was the last. He was thinking as he lay there, watching the camps of his enemies.

What heights his race had reached before luxuries, idleness and pleasures had sapped their might; had made of them a race of degenerate weaklings. He cursed beneath his breath.

There had been an age when his race had ruled the world. Their cities dotted the fertile plains. Their ships had furrowed the seas, bringing back the wealth of every land. Their armies had gone forth conquering and subjugating.

And to add a few quotes from later in the story:

Quote from: R.E. HowardAt first the white race held its own.

But not for long. The blacks were physical giants, mighty fighting organisms, whose highest wish was slaughter and plunder.

That century long warfare! The man thrilled with a savage pride as he reviewed the wonderful battle the whites gave, overwhelmed as they were with odds of a hundred to one.

...

Quote from: R.E. HowardThe last white man laughed with savage, unholy glee.

The black race was doomed. They were destroyers, not builders. When they slew the white men, progress ceased. The blacks reverted to savagery. They did not even know the art of making weapons.

They had destroyed and could not rebuild. And they were going back to bestial savagery, and to a slaughtering of one another which even their animal-like rate of birth could not control.

It was dawning. The last white man looked about him; gathered his weapons. The rush would soon come.

The full story is pretty short. One can read it here:

https://archive.org/details/howard-collector-05-1964-summer/page/22/mode/2up

Now, I still greatly enjoy Howard's writing. I ran several one-shots of the Conan RPG, like this one:

https://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/brawnythews/

Still, the evidence of his racism is impossible to ignore. It's a question of putting it in context and interpreting it.

I have not published under MR yet (very slow progress when working alone), so I do not have anything to recommend.  However, I will be watching this thread for advice as well.

Good luck!

That happens ALOT!

I saw one moron who was badmouthing the original Buck Rogers serial for "ripping off" Star War's opening credit crawl.

Numerous idiots badmouthing the Buck Rogers TV show for ripping off Star Wars when in fact it was in development at the same time as SW.

Quote from: yosemitemike on Today at 09:16:07 AMPeople who "fix" art are worthless pieces of shit who should be collectively euthanized for the betterment of humanity.  Fuck these smug, self-important assholes.  I fucking detest these people.

They arent fixing anything. They are defacing it for their agenda. But of course the woke always twist words out of any meaning.

Police: "You shot him in the head?"
Woke: "I fixed him."

The 90s wave of this stupid did the same thing. A few old cartoons with black characters were either never shown again, edited out, or in a few cases replaced with a white person because apparently some (likely white) person bitched about it.

Quote from: jeff37923 on Today at 02:29:06 PMJust my two cents on Conan.....

Even a very cursory reading of the Conan stories by Howard would show that Conan was never a rapist. In all honesty, from reading about Robert E Howard, I sincerely doubt that he would have written about a hero who forced himself on women in his stories because Howard would have considered that to be villainous.

And the pulps probably wouldn't buy a story with a rape scene in it.

It is implied in one story. Think Red nails? But never acted on. But that is all the fuel the woke need in order to start screeching "wapist!" Look at some of the postings here on the Shield Hero anime. Same damn thing. In the anime no sich thing happens. In the original litenovel the character, who has been robbed and falsely accused of rape by a woman, briefly has some very dark thoughts. And then tosses that aside and moves on. But nooooo. He is teh horriblez wapist!

Quote from: yosemitemike on Today at 07:23:55 AMI can't say that I ever particularly cared about Greyhawk or found it's flavor of kitchen sink D&D fantasy to be all that different from Forgotten Realms at the table.

I have the World of Greyhawk box and it is not even a tenth as fantasy kitchen sink as Forgotten Realms. It has a defined structure and theme where FR totally lacks any such thing. Mystara is closer to FR in that respect.

Quote from: SHARK on Today at 07:38:18 AM

Quote from: Omega on Today at 03:09:48 AMNo. We have 24 years of wotc fucking things up. Pulling one dirty deal after another. Chasing agendas. Treating employees like dirt. Ripping off people and more.

It is sad seeing the Stupid Train that WOTC has been on. Eventually, though, most of us have reached a point where enough is enough. Fuck 'em, you know? And I have enjoyed 5E, especially the early years. I have defended 5E from the haters, as well. Unfortunately, though, as you well note, year by year, episode after episode, WOTC has become more Woke and more fucking stupid and terrible.

I don't think you're actually agreeing. Omega said that WotC have been fucking up for 24 years (since 3E launched). jeff37923 said that WotC has been fucking up for 15 years (since the launch of 4E). You're only saying that WotC has been getting more stupid the past 5-6 years.

Personally, I liked the 5E core - it's my favorite edition for core rules. However, I hated the early 5E adventures, and was mixed about supplements.

I'd been lukewarm to WotC for a while, though. I remember warning about the OGL back in 2000 -- noting that WotC was actually claiming more than what copyright gave them a right to. I gave the 3E rules a fair shot - reading and breaking down the rules, and played in a short campaign. But I quit it by 2003, completely ignored 3.5E and only played a bit of 4E because my nephews wanted to play.

---

To SHARK - do you think you were hoodwinked earlier and that WotC was terrible all along and you just didn't see? Or do you stand by your assessment of the 5E core and early books?

Quote from: jeff37923 on Today at 04:08:25 AMIf you think that the only reason that D&D book sales has dropped is because a new edition is coming out and not that the OGL has been threatened by WotC,

that the latest modules were pandering crap (magical coffee shop? WTF?),

that what was a game is now being pushed as a lifestyle brand (D&D fashion and shoes anybody?)

1: Sales have dropped for alot of reasons. The OGL blowup is a footnote now. Poor product is a more telling problem.

2: There is no such module other than what ammounts to a fan made one by one of the staff. Theres alot worse on DM's Guild and people think ALL of that is "official". The problem is sadly more mundane. wotc writers are fucking lazy and cant be dicked to actually do the job they were hired for. Graduates from the  White Wolf school of failure. "oh we didnt bother to write that rule. The players will do it for us!"

3: This again? No. wotc is not pushing D&D as a lifestyle. They are too incompetent for that. Fan made mercandise and 3rd party items have been around since the TSR days. D&D WOODBURNING SET? D&D CANDY? O-M-G!!! TSR is for making teh Lifestylez!!!111!!!. wotc has done just short of nothing aside from trying to monetize fan crafts.

x: wotc has put out one lacklustre product after another Spelljanner bombed, barely anyone is talking about Planescape, the last few modules aside from Wild Beyond the Witchlight have been messes and even Witchlight needs work because the writers couldnt be dicked to do their job. Then there's Phandelver and Below which is so fucking incoherent I'm surprised anyones actually been able to run it.

And now apparently they want to mess with D&D Beyond and just this month removed the ability to buy single items from a book instead of the whole book. This on top of them removing older books from the shop. Rumor is that next to go will be the ability to post and share your own works.

Add on an unwanted new edition that wotc insists is really real not a new edition! A new edition that looks to totally overhaul things and relegate the DM to storytelling slaves.

Is it any wonder sales are down?

Quote from: Exploderwizard on Today at 01:32:34 PMWoke bullshit is like the dark side of the force. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

Much like the path of those that crusade against it, right?

Just my two cents on Conan.....

Even a very cursory reading of the Conan stories by Howard would show that Conan was never a rapist. In all honesty, from reading about Robert E Howard, I sincerely doubt that he would have written about a hero who forced himself on women in his stories because Howard would have considered that to be villainous.

And the pulps probably wouldn't buy a story with a rape scene in it.