Quote from: Exploderwizard;572380If thats the case they will lose a ton of sales. For tabletop rpg products, I want to own what I purchase to view offline, or print in whole or in part whatever I need. PDF gives this flexibility.

They could do it with a custom app of some type.  Give you a token that lets you use the files for 'x' days offline, but if you go longer than that without touching base, they expire.

But just demanding 'always online' lets them be lazier about it.

Quote from: mcbobbo;572369The Apple model, basically.  FWIW, Windows 8 is going that same direction as well.  Blizzard did it with StarCraft II and Diablo III.  The tech world is coming to accept 'always online', and I'll be mildly surprised if WoTC doesn't.

I already tweaked my Win 8 build to emulate the NT/Win2000/Vista desktop. All the new App stuff is automatically shunted into a dark Windows closet somewhere deep in my pc somewhere close to that old blue screen of death. Now if they start making annoying pop up windows that try to force you to do App stuff, I'll probably be switching to all linux machines.

If WOTC republishes 0D&D I'll probably pony up some coin for that, but only because my 30 year old Rules Cylopedia is getting pretty beat up, and my White Bookset box is gone. At the very least it's got to be reformatted PDF.
I won't go for any game leasing/rental schemes.

Even if it is a subscription model, within a week there will be a pile of cleanly scanned books available for download.

Quote from: StormBringer;572422Even if it is a subscription model, within a week there will be a pile of cleanly scanned books available for download.

Those exist now.  No change there.

Quote from: GameDaddy;572419I already tweaked my Win 8 build to emulate the NT/Win2000/Vista desktop. All the new App stuff is automatically shunted into a dark Windows closet somewhere deep in my pc somewhere close to that old blue screen of death. Now if they start making annoying pop up windows that try to force you to do App stuff, I'll probably be switching to all linux machines.

*Snirk* Have fun in the dark ages

Yeah, the control that Apple and Microsoft want over its customers is pretty disgusting, but the sheer effort some of you put into becoming the software equivalent of 'survivalists' is downright hilarious.

Quote from: mcbobbo;572369The Apple model, basically.  FWIW, Windows 8 is going that same direction as well.  Blizzard did it with StarCraft II and Diablo III.  The tech world is coming to accept 'always online', and I'll be mildly surprised if WoTC doesn't.

There is actually some value in it with software; app stores (With a few well-known examples) give you easy access to your software purchase history, and online games... need to be online (Although Blizzard have hinted that D3's online requirement may have been a mistake, StarCraft's main draw was always the multi).

But... none of those things apply to game books that you really need visible at the table. Game books don't need subscriptions, unless those come with significant services (Like 4e's tools).

I am interested in finding out moar!

Quote from: Ladybird;572444There is actually some value in it with software; app stores (With a few well-known examples) give you easy access to your software purchase history, and online games... need to be online (Although Blizzard have hinted that D3's online requirement may have been a mistake, StarCraft's main draw was always the multi).

But... none of those things apply to game books that you really need visible at the table. Game books don't need subscriptions, unless those come with significant services (Like 4e's tools).

There's value there, but people are discovering that it's not just the Government that can become Big Brother, and are getting a little worried, especially since so far, even large tech corporations have been shown to be quite lax in data security.

When Wozniak, one of the founders of personal computing, cautions that the Cloud might become a threat to personal computing, people might listen.

Anecdotes aren't evidence, but I know at least 10 Blizzard fans off the top of my head, that didn't buy D3 because it was online on general principle.  Also the biggest Star Wars fan I know (who works in the tech field) didn't get SWTOR because of EA's Origin Privacy Policy (which roughly says they'll sell your SSN to the Mafia if they feel like it. Ok maybe a slight exaggeration, but not by much.) :rotfl:

Quote from: CRKrueger;572459Anecdotes aren't evidence, but I know at least 10 Blizzard fans off the top of my head, that didn't buy D3 because it was online on general principle.

i was psyched for d3 but the online-only thing was a dealbreaker for me, too.

If they go the PDF route, Id consider buying some if the are well bookmarked. I cannot believe how some companies will go that route. What a big difference a small amount of work makes.

Books at the table is easily solved by Kindle/tablet use. I've got the D&D Next playtest and am using it off my iPad. I've also been running living Forgottenr Realms adventures off of it for over a year now. Tablet becomes more attractive the more books get involved. Back when I was a 3.5E DM, I dragged a suitcase full of books for reference to game. Today I could just bring my iPad and get the same utility.

For the non-Luddite, subscription plus tablet rocks.

Quote from: CRKrueger;572459Anecdotes aren't evidence, but I know at least 10 Blizzard fans off the top of my head, that didn't buy D3 because it was online on general principle.  Also the biggest Star Wars fan I know (who works in the tech field) didn't get SWTOR because of EA's Origin Privacy Policy (which roughly says they'll sell your SSN to the Mafia if they feel like it. Ok maybe a slight exaggeration, but not by much.) :rotfl:

I quite liked D3 (It's the best of the series, by far), but the online didn't really add anything to it for me... other than the "fun" experience of setting my region to the US without warning me, which I only discovered after playing for few days, and you can't transfer your characters between regions. Let's be honest, the online exists to get the real-money gear market going through Blizzard rather than numerous third-party sites, and earn Blizzard a cut.

And fuck Origin. I won't install that shit, thus no new EA games for me.

But back at the topic, if this is an online subscription, it doesn't add anything to the game, and actively makes them worse at the table. Tablet versions of the game, rulebooks redesigned for use on iGizmos or whatever, would be a cool option, though - it's a great format for something like the AD&D rules CD today.

(If anyone just read that sentence and is about to write a rant about how they don't have an iGizmo so why should anything be made that they personally can't use, don't bother, nobody cares)

Also, if D&D5 isn't due until 2014, and they've already basically killed 4? So two and a half years without their flagship product? Someone in their strategic planning team has fucked up very badly indeed.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;572500For the non-Luddite, subscription plus tablet rocks.

I prefer "good pdf" on tablet, m'self.

Quote from: Ladybird;572513Also, if D&D5 isn't due until 2014, and they've already basically killed 4? So two and a half years without their flagship product? Someone in their strategic planning team has fucked up very badly indeed.

Hence the reprints and opening up the entire catalog again for sale.  It has nothing to do with olive branches to older editions, it's simply bringing revenue in so Hasbro doesn't send the Hatchetman around.

Whatever the reason(s), something has changed in their thinking. They withdrew them reportedly due to piracy (and possibly because they feared old items were detracting from the sales of new items). Thus, by a process of elimination, they must now feel either;

i) Piracy is no longer an issue (perhaps because they have a subscription model in mind)
ii) They no longer feel old items will significantly stop people buying the latest and greatest releases.
iii) They accept piracy as inevitable and decreasing current release sales will happen, but the revenue stream from reissuing material will sufficiently compensate for this.
iv) They don't know what the fuck they should be doing.