Running OD&D next week. As the thread title suggests, I am searching for a system, which isn't about exact time-tracking or distances travelled, but not too abstract either. Somewhere in between, so the resource management is still part of the overall upkeep.

Torchbearer has an interesting system for light sources, although it might be too abstract for your tastes.

The basic idea is that each type of light source lasts a number of "turns", which are measured in different units such as: for each room explored, each time that they make camp (unless they have a campfire kit), in minutes/hours/half-days or other such slightly abstract chunks of game time. I suppose that a GM could decide on how long these turns last to suit their tastes.

Each light source illuminates an area measured in "people", not a radius of yards or whatever. Each also puts a few people in "dim light" in which they may have some penalties, unless they have special vision. In complete darkness things are very bad, even if the PC has dark vision, because odds are the rest of the party can't see them and will have trouble helping or finding them.

So a torch might last 4 "turns", illuminates 3 people in normal light and 3 people in dim light. Unlike a lantern, it can be snuffed out by the environment or other GM nastiness.

Quote from: Necrozius;793156Torchbearer has an interesting system for light sources, although it might be too abstract for your tastes.

The basic idea is that each type of light source lasts a number of "turns", which are measured in different units such as: for each room explored, each time that they make camp (unless they have a campfire kit), in minutes/hours/half-days or other such slightly abstract chunks of game time. I suppose that a GM could decide on how long these turns last to suit their tastes.

Each light source illuminates an area measured in "people", not a radius of yards or whatever. Each also puts a few people in "dim light" in which they may have some penalties, unless they have special vision. In complete darkness things are very bad, even if the PC has dark vision, because odds are the rest of the party can't see them and will have trouble helping or finding them.

So a torch might last 4 "turns", illuminates 3 people in normal light and 3 people in dim light. Unlike a lantern, it can be snuffed out by the environment or other GM nastiness.

That sounds quite good actually. Seems abstracted, but not to a degree that you can just handwave the carrying of torches. Illumination measured in people fits perfectly with using minis for marching order.

Thank you! Do I have to buy the game to get a closer look at their approach?

You could probably get enough from the free PDFs available on the official Torchbearer site (http://www.burningwheel.com/store/index.php/torchbearer-free-pdf-bundle.html). I shouldn't be breaking any rules by posting it here cause they're free:

Turns
In these rules, a turn is over after a conflict or some lengthy exploration. After four turns, the adventurers earn a condition (tired, hungry/thirsty, angry etc... this game assumes that dungeoneering is always physically and mentally exhausting). You could probably define the duration of turns to suit your campaign.

Candle
Light: 1 person
Dim Light: 1 person
Lasts: 4 turns
Notes: Candles may be snuffed or blown out due to environmental factors or at the discretion of the GM.

Torch
Light: 2 people
Dim Light: 2 people
Lasts: 2 turns
Notes: Torches may be used as improvised weapons (or as a club). May be snuffed if dropped and/or at the GM's discretion.

Lantern
Light: 3 people
Dim Light: 3 people
Lasts: 3 turns
Notes: Requires a flask of oil as fuel. Provides only dim light if set down.

Darkness (no light)
You cannot perform tasks requiring vision.

Dim Light
Characters near a light source but not covered by it are in dim light. Dim light counts as a factor in all tests requiring vision.

That might help get you started.

Quote from: Necrozius;793171You could probably get enough from the free PDFs available on the official Torchbearer site (http://www.burningwheel.com/store/index.php/torchbearer-free-pdf-bundle.html). I shouldn't be breaking any rules by posting it here cause they're free:

Turns
In these rules, a turn is over after a conflict or some lengthy exploration. After four turns, the adventurers earn a condition (tired, hungry/thirsty, angry etc... this game assumes that dungeoneering is always physically and mentally exhausting). You could probably define the duration of turns to suit your campaign.

Candle
Light: 1 person
Dim Light: 1 person
Lasts: 4 turns
Notes: Candles may be snuffed or blown out due to environmental factors or at the discretion of the GM.

Torch
Light: 2 people
Dim Light: 2 people
Lasts: 2 turns
Notes: Torches may be used as improvised weapons (or as a club). May be snuffed if dropped and/or at the GM's discretion.

Lantern
Light: 3 people
Dim Light: 3 people
Lasts: 3 turns
Notes: Requires a flask of oil as fuel. Provides only dim light if set down.

Darkness (no light)
You cannot perform tasks requiring vision.

Dim Light
Characters near a light source but not covered by it are in dim light. Dim light counts as a factor in all tests requiring vision.

That might help get you started.

Again, thank you. That's enough material to compile my own version.

The OD&D B/X turn system works just fine.  A torch burns for 6 turns and a full lantern burns for 24 turns.

Turns are 10 minutes, so 6 per hour.  Thus a torch will burn for an hour and a lantern four hours on a single flask of oil.

Somewhere online there is a turn tracker with a little torch icon every sixth turn. Can't remember where I found it. You can print it out and mark off the turns, which will also keep track of torch consumption.

Let's not forget that a torch is a stick on fire. They are not all created equal and they are meant to be carefully carried, not swung about in panic and dropped in combat.

In my OD&D games, you get 5 turns of use from a regular torch, then I roll 1D6 to see how the torch holds up for that final turn, AKA, roll each round and on a 1, it goes out. Of course, these are better quality torches and makeshift torches would be lucky to last 3 turns.

I highly suggest making a torch sometime and taking it outside in the darkness. Even better, take it inside a tunnel or other stone structure. It's a fascinating experiment that will change the way you look at torches in game.

AKA, they are not lanterns or flashlights...

The original Empire of the Petal Throne handled torches quite succinctly: You couldn't fight while holding one, it was just too much of a hassle. No modifiers, no penalty, just NO. You were expected to have slaves or hirelings act as torchbearers.

I always liked the stark simplicity of that.

Plus empire of the Petal Throne also used a # of people per torch mechanic much like torchbearer.

No way! Sword in one hand and torch in the other 4teh win! It's such an iconic image.

Quote from: Spinachcat;793276Let's not forget that a torch is a stick on fire.

Someplace online I read a guy's experiments with making torches. The impromptu ones like people make in movies didn't burn long at all. He researched several types and recorded the times... he did come up with some that needed particular materials and careful assembly that would burn for a couple hours... maybe.
Not that anyone uses torches in our games these days anyway. Our GM used to work as a safety adviser for some of the mines up North... so he's more than happy to let us in on the dangers of running around with open flames in underground passages... or out in the forest... or when standing in a field... or looking around an old house.

Our characters pretty much stick to lanterns now.

Quote from: Spinachcat;793276Let's not forget that a torch is a stick on fire. They are not all created equal and they are meant to be carefully carried, not swung about in panic and dropped in combat.

In my OD&D games, you get 5 turns of use from a regular torch, then I roll 1D6 to see how the torch holds up for that final turn, AKA, roll each round and on a 1, it goes out. Of course, these are better quality torches and makeshift torches would be lucky to last 3 turns.

I highly suggest making a torch sometime and taking it outside in the darkness. Even better, take it inside a tunnel or other stone structure. It's a fascinating experiment that will change the way you look at torches in game.

AKA, they are not lanterns or flashlights...

I know it isn't scientific but I remember watching the movie "Conan the Destroyer" and being surprised at the scene where they walk through a tunnel holding torches. Those torches didn't light up much. It's easy to imagine that in any sizable cave or outdoor environment anything beyond 30 feet would be obscured and deep in shadow. With the torchlight dancing around and the characters waving their arms about the shadows too would be constantly shifting. It would be very difficult to notice anything wanting to hide.

Quote from: Doughdee222;793365Those torches didn't light up much. It's easy to imagine that in any sizable cave or outdoor environment anything beyond 30 feet would be obscured and deep in shadow. With the torchlight dancing around and the characters waving their arms about the shadows too would be constantly shifting. It would be very difficult to notice anything wanting to hide.

I guess you'd be best served by multiple torches, spread out.
I've explored local caves with just a flashlight and while it was a decent source of directional light it gave a sort of flattened impression of everything. I walked right off of a 4ft cliff (actually, fell across an uneven chasm that dropped another 10ft) because it was so hard to see the discrepancy in the ground. Having a couple more lights at different angles would have helped avoid that.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;793294The original Empire of the Petal Throne handled torches quite succinctly: You couldn't fight while holding one, it was just too much of a hassle. No modifiers, no penalty, just NO. You were expected to have slaves or hirelings act as torchbearers.

I always liked the stark simplicity of that.

WHAT!  

You haven't adventured until you have hit a monster upside the head with a lit torch!

I set aside a d6 for each lit torch and a d24 for each lit lantern; each turn I roll all the dice set aside, and anything that comes up 1 goes out and gets marked off the character sheet (torch or pint of oil). If one of several torches goes out I declare which one by fiat.

So torches average 6 turns and lanterns/pints 24 turns, exactly their AD&D durations. I don't track when anything was lit other than by setting aside a die; stuff that gets put out and relit I handle by handling the number of dice, since total durations will average out anyway; and rolling the dice is a way of signaling turn boundaries.