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Workable system for management of torches in the dungeon milieu

Started by Nerzenjäger, October 21, 2014, 09:25:02 AM

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David Johansen

Limited light is one of those things that give dungeons a sense of time ticking down and it's really a pretty important part of the game in that sense.

You could always tie torches to the real world clock.  That'd help cut the table talk.
Fantasy Adventure Comic, games, and more http://www.uncouthsavage.com

talysman

How long is your typical dungeon expedition? If it's only a day trip, eight hours should be fine. That's eight torches for one or two people, or 16 for more, or two flasks or candles for a lantern, using the times given up thread.

At start of expedition, figure out how many torches the party has, compared to how many are needed. More than enough? Fine. Don't track during play. Assume party replaces torches as needed, and just deduct the proper number after the party returns. If the party has a flurry of activity that doesn't leave time to relight torches, roll to see if the torches go out. Also make appropriate rolls if something happens that could put out torches. (In od&d this would be 1 or 2 in 6.)

Fewer torches? There may be a chance of being plunged into darkness. Set aside a couple torches for emergency lighting and figure out how long the remaining torches would last. Just keep mental track of the rough number of hours that pass. When you hit the limit, start carefully tracking the turns used for the emergency torches. Unless the party is seriously underequiped, you only need to track six to twelve turns, max.

Nerzenjäger

Quote from: David Johansen;793483Limited light is one of those things that give dungeons a sense of time ticking down and it's really a pretty important part of the game in that sense.

You could always tie torches to the real world clock.  That'd help cut the table talk.

That's an idea I've been toying around with as of late. In-game time is just too amorphic to track it appropriately. But setting a reminder on your phone every hour is easy. The flip-side of course being, that it has no relation to what is actually happening in the scenario.
"You play Conan, I play Gandalf.  We team up to fight Dracula." - jrients

Omega

Quote from: Spinachcat;793302No way! Sword in one hand and torch in the other 4teh win! It's such an iconic image.

You cant see what the hell you are doing then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiuHr5YVJBI outdoor problems.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQZqbGME5HY Indoor problems
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPaj8lR786s and in movies just for chuckles.

Opaopajr

Torches are great for lighting and throwing into a room. Lights room (don't look straight at it!) & my enemies when they approach, night blinds them (not usually in actual rules, but I'll gladly take it if you *really* want to give it to me), and great way to leave a breadcrumb trail. As for cinematic torches, they're as faithful as rifle physics, a.k.a. completely ignore.

And please, please, pretty please, give me asphyxiation rules with torches, bonfires, and the like. I dare you. I double dog dare you. I will DESTROY your encounter lairs. Smoking out (asphyxiating) dungeons, with archery ambush turkey shoot covering the lone flaming exit, was one of my old specialties to end those silly module dungeon adventures flat until GMs got wise... The rest is just mopping up, or horribly dying to, undead.

We play these games to have fun. At some point I ask, "do I really need to be on paranoiac survival horror mode 24/7?" It's one of the reasons I try to check myself when dungeoneering old school style -- especially with unprepared new school players -- because I was painfully good at it. I just wanted to let off the gas from the tension a bit with a nice slice of paladins and princesses & a cup of tea.
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

David Johansen

#20
Quote from: Opaopajr;793534And please, please, pretty please, give me asphyxiation rules with torches, bonfires, and the like. I dare you. I double dog dare you. I will DESTROY your encounter lairs. Smoking out (asphyxiating) dungeons, with archery ambush turkey shoot covering the lone flaming exit, was one of my old specialties to end those silly module dungeon adventures flat until GMs got wise... The rest is just mopping up, or horribly dying to, undead.

Nah, any reasonable dungeon design has a good chimney not far from the entrance and is well ventilated.  Well, that or the creatures in it eat and breathe darkness.  And that tends to mean scary undead stuff.  But it may be that my older brother was always trying that stuff so I learned to counter it early.  And then there's higher level stunts like sending all that smoke back out in an air elemental.
Fantasy Adventure Comic, games, and more http://www.uncouthsavage.com

Opaopajr

Quote from: David Johansen;793537Nah, any reasonable dungeon design has a good chimney not far from the entrance and is well ventilated.  Well, that or the creatures in it eat and breathe darkness.  And that tends to mean scary undead stuff.  But it may be that my older brother was always trying that stuff so I learned to counter it early.

I loved chimneys. They reveal easily where's the patch job needed. They also gave a false sense of security, too. Even better... ;)

And it is also assumed just about everyone sentient and functioning in the medieval world understands about the basics of fire and smoke, right? No metagaming at all, right?
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

fuseboy

Quote from: Barbatruc;793467I set aside a d6 for each lit torch and a d24 for each lit lantern; each turn I roll all the dice set aside, and anything that comes up 1 goes out and gets marked off the character sheet (torch or pint of oil). .. So torches average 6 turns and lanterns/pints 24 turns, exactly their AD&D durations.

That's really very cool, Barbatruc.

Nerzenjäger

Quote from: Barbatruc;793467I set aside a d6 for each lit torch and a d24 for each lit lantern; each turn I roll all the dice set aside, and anything that comes up 1 goes out and gets marked off the character sheet (torch or pint of oil). If one of several torches goes out I declare which one by fiat.

So torches average 6 turns and lanterns/pints 24 turns, exactly their AD&D durations. I don't track when anything was lit other than by setting aside a die; stuff that gets put out and relit I handle by handling the number of dice, since total durations will average out anyway; and rolling the dice is a way of signaling turn boundaries.

Amazing stuff. This might be my favourite solution so far.
"You play Conan, I play Gandalf.  We team up to fight Dracula." - jrients

Barbatruc

Quote from: fuseboy;793564That's really very cool, Barbatruc.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;793579Amazing stuff. This might be my favourite solution so far.

Hey, thanks for the kind words! I thought I might have gotten this from talysman because it seems talysmanesque to me, but given his reply to this thread I guess not. Maybe I riffed on this ammo tracking thing? (I don't use that ammo system, at least not yet; I definitely found that link after talysman wrote about the topic. Note the "set aside d6s" thing in t's system.)

Anyway. I'm pretty bummed that I wrote a thing about lighting, and used the word "fiat", but forgot to pun. Tough lux!

talysman

Quote from: Barbatruc;793724Hey, thanks for the kind words! I thought I might have gotten this from talysman because it seems talysmanesque to me, but given his reply to this thread I guess not. Maybe I riffed on this ammo tracking thing? (I don't use that ammo system, at least not yet; I definitely found that link after talysman wrote about the topic. Note the "set aside d6s" thing in t's system.)

I did something similar with wands long ago, but I don't think I have ever did it with lighting. Good job!

talysman

Quote from: Barbatruc;793467I set aside a d6 for each lit torch and a d24 for each lit lantern; each turn I roll all the dice set aside, and anything that comes up 1 goes out and gets marked off the character sheet (torch or pint of oil). If one of several torches goes out I declare which one by fiat.

So torches average 6 turns and lanterns/pints 24 turns, exactly their AD&D durations. I don't track when anything was lit other than by setting aside a die; stuff that gets put out and relit I handle by handling the number of dice, since total durations will average out anyway; and rolling the dice is a way of signaling turn boundaries.

Quote from: Barbatruc;793724Hey, thanks for the kind words! I thought I might have gotten this from talysman because it seems talysmanesque to me, but given his reply to this thread I guess not. Maybe I riffed on this ammo tracking thing? (I don't use that ammo system, at least not yet; I definitely found that link after talysman wrote about the topic. Note the "set aside d6s" thing in t's system.)

Anyway. I'm pretty bummed that I wrote a thing about lighting, and used the word "fiat", but forgot to pun. Tough lux!

I thought about this a little more, and I think you can merge the lighting dice rolls with what I was talking about upthread (not tracking torches during the game at all.)

Again, you are just counting the approximate hours spent in the the dungeon, rather than the burn time left on each inndividual torch. You do need to know about how long the party's supplies could theoretically last, though.

Set aside the dice for each active light source, as you describe. However, don't roll these every turn; just roll these after the start of combat or in the middle of any important action, like crossing a precarious ledge, to see if torches go out at the wrong time. After the expedition, figure out how many hours were spent in the dungeon and deduct the appropriate number of torches, candles, or oil flasks, plus one extra for every failed lighting roll.

If you didn't start the expedition with plenty of extra torches, start rolling every turn when you theoretically should have used your last torch. The last few turns become a race to get out of the dungeon before you are plunged in darkness.

David Johansen

Quote from: Opaopajr;793538I loved chimneys. They reveal easily where's the patch job needed. They also gave a false sense of security, too. Even better... ;)

And it is also assumed just about everyone sentient and functioning in the medieval world understands about the basics of fire and smoke, right? No metagaming at all, right?

Dungeon dwellers would know better than most that you need ventilation and ways of dealing with smoke.  Still it depends a bit on how you want your fantasy.  To some the idea that such tricks would work are offensive.  Me, I tend to arm my Call of Cthulhu characters with a glass bottle of ammonia and another of bleach.
Fantasy Adventure Comic, games, and more http://www.uncouthsavage.com

Bren

Quote from: David Johansen;793906Dungeon dwellers would know better than most that you need ventilation and ways of dealing with smoke.  Still it depends a bit on how you want your fantasy.  To some the idea that such tricks would work are offensive.  Me, I tend to arm my Call of Cthulhu characters with a glass bottle of ammonia and another of bleach.
Since it is CoC your PC better have a decent Chemistry score. Or a great Luck roll. In any case, include a gas mask.
Currently running: Runequest in Glorantha + Call of Cthulhu   Currently playing: D&D 5E + RQ
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Opaopajr

Quote from: Bren;793947Since it is CoC your PC better have a decent Chemistry score. Or a great Luck roll. In any case, include a gas mask.

Or just do the standard logical CoC tactic, hit & run. Standing there huffing the fumes is a no-no to even basic remedial chemistry safety. Don't even need to remember the atomic number or valences, either.

Heh, if the GM reads the score as the challenge to basic functioning, then yeah expect needing that luck roll. Played with plenty of CoC GMs who made you roll every goddamn thing, like drive to the market or speak your native tongue coherently. They obviously didn't read the book that well; even made a few hate d% forevermore after the cascade of suck that followed.
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman