i stand corrected. However, it's not on the "label" - I don't play shadowrun so none of these horror elements were known to me. White Wolf says horror "on the label."

I like my urban fantasy game to be broad. To more I think about it, the more I am convinced my game (if I designed one) would look something like Witchcraft. That game is essentially a Mage the Ascension clone, but it doesn't have the default monolithic conflict old Mage has and neither it has the sectarianism new Mage has.

Every association and race can be playable, an ally, a mysterious stranger or an enemy. It gives the power to the GM and is servicable to what the GM wants. You can easily play a group of Christian vampire hunters, have a vampire in your party, occassionally hook up with vampires to hunt shapeshifters or don't have any vampires at all in your game, because it's all about cults and the things from beyond.

It's flexible. That's what I also like about Traveller or SW Hellfrost. You can do a lot of different things all within the same setting.

... and yes Shadowrun looks a lot like the oWoD. Just check the covers of the tradition books and compare them to Shadowrun covers. It was the era of the dark superheroes, right?

Quote from: jan paparazzi;850422I like my urban fantasy game to be broad. To more I think about it, the more I am convinced my game (if I designed one) would look something like Witchcraft. That game is essentially a Mage the Ascension clone, but it doesn't have the default monolithic conflict old Mage has and neither it has the sectarianism new Mage has.

Every association and race can be playable, an ally, a mysterious stranger or an enemy. It gives the power to the GM and is servicable to what the GM wants. You can easily play a group of Christian vampire hunters, have a vampire in your party, occassionally hook up with vampires to hunt shapeshifters or don't have any vampires at all in your game, because it's all about cults and the things from beyond.

It's flexible. That's what I also like about Traveller or SW Hellfrost. You can do a lot of different things all within the same setting.

... and yes Shadowrun looks a lot like the oWoD. Just check the covers of the tradition books and compare them to Shadowrun covers. It was the era of the dark superheroes, right?

I'm actually working on something like this myself now. Inspirations from Nightlife, Gurps Cabal, WoD, and the like. For myself and my own playgroup if nothing else.

am I the only one who wants to mash Nightlife and Ace Agents / Supers?

Quote from: Orphan81;850428I'm actually working on something like this myself now. Inspirations from Nightlife, Gurps Cabal, WoD, and the like. For myself and my own playgroup if nothing else.

I think it's the angst that mostly bothers me in the WoD and the lack of angst I find refreshing in games like Cabal or Witchcraft. Less "Shadows run deeper in the world of darkness." or "You feel the breath of evil down your neck and you smell the stench of corruption in the air." and more practical stuff.

Btw I actually found some cool urban fantasy kickstarters.

The Thin Blue Line: A Detroit Police Story
A game in which you play psychic police officers who investigate paranormal threats in haunted Detroit. Uses Savage Worlds. I got the player's guide and it looks really good.

Fae Nightmares
A game in which you play nightmares, humans who have stumbled into the war between the fae courts. Uses Savage Worlds.

Witch
A game in which you play witches and warlocks who have gained magical powers after selling their soul to a demon. Uses some sort of combination of D20 and the Storyteller system.

Cool.

Orphan81 - contact me if you want to work on that together!

One of the big draws I heard players mention of all the White Wolf stuff was the overlapping mysteries within mysteries written into the setting. Then there was the whole political intrigue aspect. Helped by the fact that the books used more or less the same mechanics between books so you did not have to totally re-learn a new system. This on top of the sheer glitze of the books helped to make them stand out.

And in a way. Rifts was the main competitor. Weird setting, play monsters, generally compatible system between settings, mysteries buried in the writing.

I've gone back over the God Machine Chronicle and I actually like many of the changes. I also liked nWOD when it came out. I ran a 1+ year VtM chronicle many moons ago. I always ignored the meta-plot. I appreciated the more "generic" approach of nWOD.

So, what are people's beefs with the nWOD2? It seems like a better tuned, better explained version of what they were trying to accomplish with nWOD1.

I don't have a problem with it. I have a problem with some of the people writing for it tho.

But not all of their lines...

Quote from: trechriron;851736I've gone back over the God Machine Chronicle and I actually like many of the changes. I also liked nWOD when it came out. I ran a 1+ year VtM chronicle many moons ago. I always ignored the meta-plot. I appreciated the more "generic" approach of nWOD.

So, what are people's beefs with the nWOD2? It seems like a better tuned, better explained version of what they were trying to accomplish with nWOD1.

Metaplot is easy to ignore. Didn't like it myself, but I like the more defined oWoD settings better. Especially vampire and mage. I lost interest in the nWoD and haven't checked out 2.0. Too little, too late. The games remain very unpractical to me with all those big blocks of text with some information you need hidden in it. It could be massively condensed and with all those pages saved, they could fill that up with some practical stuff like plotpoint campaigns, random quest generators, mechanics for having a base (like those lodges in Rippers) advice on different playstyles (combat, exploration, investigation, intrigue) and some tables for that etc.

It doesn't focus on what you are supposed to do. The thing that is missing is the player. In a game like Traveller it seems to be all about the players and it starts of with the question what do you want to do? Want to be a merchant, mercenary or an explorer and then it tries to support that playstyle you choose. White Wolf games always try to give you as much info on the setting and it's themes as possible and usually in a very verbose way with bombastic prose.

Regarding Shadowrun and White Wolf...

some of the reasons for the similarities is that there was some sharing of design personnel at the top.  The name escapes me at the moment, but I seem to recall he has since died.  Now, I've always chalked up this guy to the use of the dice pool mechanic and other rule similarities, but based on what you guys have pointed out, it may be more pervasive than that.

Damnit... now I'm gonna be trying to think of the dude's name all damn day, and I don't have the time to simply research it via the interwebs

Quote from: tenbones;851741I don't have a problem with it. I have a problem with some of the people writing for it tho.

But not all of their lines...

This pretty much. I enjoy a large portion of Nwod2. God Machine, Requiem 2nd edition, Forsaken 2nd edition are all awesome, and the upcoming 2nd edition of Awakening looks great to..

The problem is some of the writers and their attitudes toward anyone who doesn't carry the exact same politics they do. It's a real turn off as a fan. It's one thing to disagree with others about your personal politics, it's another to actively demonize them and attempt to have them silenced completely.

Quote from: Orphan81;851812This pretty much. I enjoy a large portion of Nwod2. God Machine, Requiem 2nd edition, Forsaken 2nd edition are all awesome, and the upcoming 2nd edition of Awakening looks great to..

The problem is some of the writers and their attitudes toward anyone who doesn't carry the exact same politics they do. It's a real turn off as a fan. It's one thing to disagree with others about your personal politics, it's another to actively demonize them and attempt to have them silenced completely.

And sometimes, their politics bleed through their writing and makes for an uncomfortable read.

I'm sure I can't the only one who saw Price of Freedom and thought it would be a hoot to play a right-wing ultra-patriot fighting the red menace BECAUSE I don't share those politics and fears.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;851604The Thin Blue Line: A Detroit Police Story
A game in which you play psychic police officers who investigate paranormal threats in haunted Detroit. Uses Savage Worlds. I got the player's guide and it looks really good.

I didn't know that was out already, very cool.