Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 22, 2022, 10:35:01 AM
I like rules lite games. 

However, one-page-rules style games like Risus are not that good if you ask me.  They lack the features I think any good RPG needs. 

1.  Character Stats
2.  Experience advancement
3.  Skills
4.  Bestiary/NPC enemies list
5.  Gear.

My example for a fun RPG that is super minimal, but has all of those above features is Pocket Fantasy.   At its most basic it is just four pages long.  If you want all the gear and extra classes, then it's 8 pages.  Either way, it's a great game that is simple to learn and you can play it in just minutes.  Aka, your session zero could be just a few minutes. 

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/189191

TLDR.  How small can a good game be?  For me, I need 10-50 pages at least.

Only character stats are essential.

Experience and advancement is of no use to players who don't have the time to play RPGs regularly, and just want to do a one shot. For them a very light game with a short page count is ideal.

Skills aren't even essential for a rules medium game.

Sample enemies can be useful, but that of course assumes that the main point of the game is to fight enemies. I notice that you didn't say anything about combat mechanics being essential. Do you take it for granted?

Gear is something that some players hate. They prefer it to just be assumed that you have the necessary equipment to do what your character wants to do.

Quote from: Pat on April 22, 2022, 02:46:08 PM
Why do I feel like you're the author of the game you mentioned, and this is a stealth shill?

I'm not.   I'm actually an airplane mechanic, not a writer. 

What I am is getting older and do not have time for complex games, plus I play mostly with my wife.  She's not a gamer, so a 650 page Pathfinder game rulebook is out of the question.   

I also like Tiny-D6, and Mini-D6 Bare Bones edition.  Our current game is Dingeons and Delvers Dice Pool Edition. 

My favorite type of rules lite is a stripped-down version of Basic Roleplaying (BRP):

Ask players to come up with a character concept. Then give each player an amount of points for building stats, or let them roll if you prefer.
Likewise give a specified amount to build your skills, the amount of skill points/stat points should reflect the power level of the game. You can cap starting skills at, say, 90% if you like (again depending on power level).
For the actual game, the only "complication" I like to keep is the critical hit table, to add a bit flavor to combat. I also use the resistance roll table every now and then. Everything else is just normal percentile stat rolls or skill rolls.

I think Searchers of the Unknown is a good 1-page ruleset, with a clever premise hook.

It utilizes existing mechanics to its benefit, but being so simple, it would be a doddle to make one's own stuff for it: a good basis for many spin-off genres.

Is it too rules-lite?  Maybe, but it's a good pick up game.

Quote from: Trond on April 23, 2022, 09:49:28 AM
My favorite type of rules lite is a stripped-down version of Basic Roleplaying (BRP):

Ask players to come up with a character concept. Then give each player an amount of points for building stats, or let them roll if you prefer.
Likewise give a specified amount to build your skills, the amount of skill points/stat points should reflect the power level of the game. You can cap starting skills at, say, 90% if you like (again depending on power level).
For the actual game, the only "complication" I like to keep is the critical hit table, to add a bit flavor to combat. I also use the resistance roll table every now and then. Everything else is just normal percentile stat rolls or skill rolls.

Is that BRG the Chaosium rules?

One oddity that I like to use is a simple game called Freeform Universal.  It really only has one dice roll.  A 1D6 chart with three successful results and three failures.  One of each has an secondary benefit, and one of each has a secondary failure.  You roll 1D6, and as many additional 1D6's as you can by convincing the GM that your character has an advantage, and subtract the same for the opponent's situation.  Pick the best result.

I don't use it as a game by itself.  Instead, I use it as a GM tool for situations that we want to get over and done now, and move on.

Example:  A massive battle.  I'm an experienced commander, and I have a spy who relayed key enemy plans to me,  but the enemy fleet is larger.  So instead of 3D6, I roll 2D6.  I get a 3 and a 4.  I pick the 4, which means we win.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.  Had I only gotten the single roll I would get a 3.  That's still a win, but something bad happens too. 

B/X. My favorite D&D, but I like adding some feats, skills and options. I wrote my own version to my tastes. The "PHB" is about 60 pages and has everything I need in this regard.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/229046/Dark-Fantasy-Basic--Players-Guide?src=newest_recent&coverSizeTestPhase2=true&word-variants=true

Also, Knave would be great with a few additional skills and options IMO.

I enjoy AD&D, 5e, and especially the RC, but overall I'd prefer something simpler.

(Curiously, fans of all these three systems see them as "rules light", which is not the case IMO)

Mork Borg is too rules light, which didn't offset me not being a fan of the layout.  It's one of the rare cut my losses books that needed to go with spring cleaning.

A B/X level complexity with 5E's underlying mechanics to get rid of the old wonkiness would probably be good for what I look to OSR for.

The simplified OpenD6 variants do look interesting as well

Quote from: Palleon on April 24, 2022, 03:13:48 PM
A B/X level complexity with 5E's underlying mechanics to get rid of the old wonkiness would probably be good for what I look to OSR for.

This is some kind of holy grail IMO (not the ONLY one, of course). Since I already pimped my own version above, here is another interesting take on the subject:

https://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2021/12/table-tools-booklets-and-into-unknown.html

Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 23, 2022, 09:51:42 PM

Quote from: Trond on April 23, 2022, 09:49:28 AM
My favorite type of rules lite is a stripped-down version of Basic Roleplaying (BRP):

Ask players to come up with a character concept. Then give each player an amount of points for building stats, or let them roll if you prefer.
Likewise give a specified amount to build your skills, the amount of skill points/stat points should reflect the power level of the game. You can cap starting skills at, say, 90% if you like (again depending on power level).
For the actual game, the only "complication" I like to keep is the critical hit table, to add a bit flavor to combat. I also use the resistance roll table every now and then. Everything else is just normal percentile stat rolls or skill rolls.

Is that BRG the Chaosium rules?

Yes, I have used the Golden BRP book, or sometimes Stormbringer (which is very similar but high power fantasy)

Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies on April 23, 2022, 09:06:12 PM
I think Searchers of the Unknown is a good 1-page ruleset, with a clever premise hook.

It utilizes existing mechanics to its benefit, but being so simple, it would be a doddle to make one's own stuff for it: a good basis for many spin-off genres.

Is it too rules-lite?  Maybe, but it's a good pick up game.

Searchers is a great call out. One page, yet you could pick up B1 or B2 and run them probably 95% without conversion. And I'm only leaving 5% on the table because I cannot recall how Searchers handled saves.

That only works if you already know how to play D&D. It's not a complete system.

Quote from: FingerRod on April 24, 2022, 06:11:23 PM

Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies on April 23, 2022, 09:06:12 PM
I think Searchers of the Unknown is a good 1-page ruleset, with a clever premise hook.

It utilizes existing mechanics to its benefit, but being so simple, it would be a doddle to make one's own stuff for it: a good basis for many spin-off genres.

Is it too rules-lite?  Maybe, but it's a good pick up game.

Searchers is a great call out. One page, yet you could pick up B1 or B2 and run them probably 95% without conversion. And I'm only leaving 5% on the table because I cannot recall how Searchers handled saves.

Roll 1d20 under your level + 4 or 5, depending on the version.

https://sites.google.com/site/wizardinabottle/searchers-of-the-unknown

Searchers of the Unknown is my go-to for pick up games. It's trivial to teach, trivial to remember, and it's mostly compatible with B/X. And back when it came out, it inspired dozens of riffs, including some with spellcasting, mutant wasteland variations, or even 70s funk versions.

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on April 22, 2022, 10:51:59 PM
One page? Psssh. Try one word:

https://riverhousegames.itch.io/we-are-but-worms-a-one-word-rpg

don't, just don't
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/364508/Dont--The-worlds-first-universal-roleplaying-game-called-Dont

Quote from: Pat on April 24, 2022, 07:23:32 PM

Quote from: FingerRod on April 24, 2022, 06:11:23 PM

Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies on April 23, 2022, 09:06:12 PM
I think Searchers of the Unknown is a good 1-page ruleset, with a clever premise hook.

It utilizes existing mechanics to its benefit, but being so simple, it would be a doddle to make one's own stuff for it: a good basis for many spin-off genres.

Is it too rules-lite?  Maybe, but it's a good pick up game.

Searchers is a great call out. One page, yet you could pick up B1 or B2 and run them probably 95% without conversion. And I'm only leaving 5% on the table because I cannot recall how Searchers handled saves.

Roll 1d20 under your level + 4 or 5, depending on the version.

https://sites.google.com/site/wizardinabottle/searchers-of-the-unknown

Searchers of the Unknown is my go-to for pick up games. It's trivial to teach, trivial to remember, and it's mostly compatible with B/X. And back when it came out, it inspired dozens of riffs, including some with spellcasting, mutant wasteland variations, or even 70s funk versions.

YES! Thanks, Pat. Very in-line with the skills checks but using a constant instead of the AC. Swimming, stealth and jumping all work great. I wonder if that was first used in Searchers to taken somewhere else. At any rate, it is a fantastic mechanic.