Quote"If you asked Matt why PTA is more accessible than D&D for some people, I'm sure he'd tell you it's because there are no elves in PTA. Rather that everyone is familiar with ensemble TV, and so has a common frame of reference for the material. That, if anything, is PTA's outreach to the mainstream.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.. right, like there are millions of common americans who:

1. Don't know what an elf is. You know, because Lord of the Rings did so unbelievably poorly at the box office, and the "common man" is such an ignorant retard.

2. Are just unbelievably desperate to get to play Mr.Furley, Chandler, or Connie Seleca from a Hallmark TV Movie.

YOU STUPID GODDAMN CUNTS!! I mean fuck, it fills me with a murderous rage to see someone write comments that are at the same time this unbelievably fucking pretentious and so INCREDIBLY FUCKING STUPID.  It makes me feel like this shitlead doesn't deserve the oxygen he breathes and desperately needs to get his head bashed in with the Spiked Baseball Bat of Great Justice.

And then you fuckers come on here and honestly try to tell me with a straight face that you aren't just FUCKING BLINDED by your hatred for D&D and regular roleplayers?  FUCK YOU.  I mean, honestly, you are suggesting trying to convince people to play the Golden Girls because you have so much self-loathing at your geekdom and so much hatred for D&D just because of its popularity that you won't even touch something with an "elf" in it.

WELL COME IN HERE NOW, FUCKERS. COME ON, I FUCKING DARE YOU. Tell me now with a straight face that you fuckers don't despise normal roleplaying.

Oh, right. I know, "they don't speak for you". Only you're constantly speaking with them, and over there, on your PIGFUCKER SWINE sites, you express tacit approval at the slimy pretentious filth that these fuckers all spew.

You are filthy vipers who crawl on your belly and speak lies out of both sides of your mouth. You are unworthy of anything other than being crushed under my boot.

RPGPundit

Punchy. I give it an 8.

WTF is PTA, BTW?

One must never stop condemning stupidity.
And this is a major case of stupidity.

That's Prime Time Adventures, an rpg which aims to let you play like characters in a tv show, either a real one or your own.

You've got to link these quotes, RPGPundit, so we can go and see the insanity for ourselves. Is this prompted by my earlier linking of the guys saying that The Mountain Witch was an example of "an rpg accessible to the mainstream [general non-gaming public]"?

Quote from: RPGPunditJESUS FUCKING CHRIST.. right, like there are millions of common americans who:

1. Don't know what an elf is. You know, because Lord of the Rings did so unbelievably poorly at the box office, and the "common man" is such an ignorant retard.

2. Are just unbelievably desperate to get to play Mr.Furley, Chandler, or Connie Seleca from a Hallmark TV Movie.

Ultimately, I was tricked into the hobby.

A friend of mine told me that you could use Dungeons & Dragons to play Star Wars or Star Trek.  Being a fan of those, his constant pestering convinced me to buy the Basic set.

I only knew what elves were from watching the animated Hobbit, and the elves presented in the D&D Basic set were not really very close to that portrayal.  I had no attachment to the material.  I was indifferent to it.  D&D helped spawn my interest and knowledge of the fantasy cliches.  I would not have known or cared otherwise.

Had there been a highly visible Star Trek or Star Wars RPG available at the time, I definitely would have bought those instead and never gotten into D&D.  In some ways, fantasy games were just wasted time for me while I waited for games based on things I was actually interested in (Robotech, Marvel Super Heroes, Star Trek, and Star Wars) to appear.

And, even more anecdotally, when I'd do open recruitment for Robotech and Marvel games, I'd get people playing who would NEVER, EVER play D&D and would never have touched a RPG otherwise.

QuoteAnd, even more anecdotally, when I'd do open recruitment for Robotech and Marvel games, I'd get people playing who would NEVER, EVER play D&D and would never have touched a RPG otherwise.

It´s all about genre.

And TV-Show making, is not a genre.

Quote from: JimBobOzThat's Prime Time Adventures, an rpg which aims to let you play like characters in a tv show, either a real one or your own.

Ah, so this is "my favorite/pet/own" game wankery. Gotcha.

It´s more like playing the actors of TV-shows.

Well, what they say there is not totally insane. You can persuade anyone to do something more easily if you can show that it's like something else they already like and understand and do. So, you know, "everyone watches tv, this game is just like tv only you control the characters, here you go." The thing is that most people don't find tv very exciting, they just watch it passively. The most common feeling reported by people watching tv is very mild depression and boredom. It's a "zoning out" sort of thing, like marijuana steeped in liquor. It's passive. Whereas roleplaying is at least reactive, if not active.

So something like D&D is a better bet for people new to roleplaying, because the things you can compare it to, to make them understand what it is, are more like it. I mean, actually playing a character in a tv show with no script is not much like just watching tv. But playing D&D is quite a bit like playing World of Warcraft.

The basic idea, of encouraging their joining your hobby by showing it's similar to something they already like, understand and do, that's a good idea. But PTA is the wrong choice, there are much much better choices around.

I found the thread Pundit's spazzing out about, though. And the more I read of them, the worse it gets. One bloke says

Quote from: Graham WalmsleyJason, have you actually pulled out Contenders at a party? I'd be quite embarrassed to pull a roleplaying game out at a party. We played Taboo, last week, last after an early Christmas dinner. I couldn't have pulled out Paranoia (or Dogs or something else) and asked if people fancied a game.

[my emphasis]

It's nothing to do with rpgs being too geeky, or not "mainstream" enough topics. It's about these guys being embarassed about their gaming. They can't face the fault in themselves, so they're saying there's a fault in gaming, it's too geeky, or the games aren't appealing enough to "the mainstream."

Quote from: Graham WalmsleyEric, I'm interested by what you say about guiderails. I agree: I think that, often, non-roleplayers are more comfortable with tightly constrained narration.

He doesn't invite them to game. So how would he know what they're comfortable with? If he goes on making up shit like this, he could develop an rpg theory!

They're just out of touch, and they're nerds - geeks with zero social skills. They don't know how to talk to people about their hobbies without sounding like utter dweebs, so they just don't talk about it. Pretty sad, really.

Quote from: RPGPundit2. Are just unbelievably desperate to get to play Mr.Furley, Chandler, or Connie Seleca from a Hallmark TV Movie.

Another thing this reminded me of was something the girls would do way back in my early days of high school.  They'd "play Dynasty."  They'd each pick characters from the show and pass around a notebook.  More or less, they role-played exclusively by bluebook.  

Of course there was no way that any of those girls would do anything as "nerdy" as playing a RPG.

JimBob Back up post:

Some non-gamer friends of mine started [after I introduced them] playing D&D at their "regular´s table" day, and they introduced their drinking buddies into it. They play while at a cafe.

Nobody cares.
Why should anybody care?

Whoever wants to hold up PTA as the best newbie game needs to explain why the Dallas RPG tanked.  Then we can talk.

Fucked if I know, Settembrini.

Whenever I've gamed at a cafe, the owners cared because the gamers often stayed ages and never bought anything. That wasn't hating them for being gamers, though, but for being tightarses.

Edit: oh, and speaking of playing in cafes, and not being embarassed, here's an SJGames thread about someone who is definitely not embarassed... he recruited the next table.

Quote from: NeverCoolI saw this in action, and I thought it was so incredibly cool that I just had to share it, particularly because a lot of people in here ask how to get more people playing GURPS, or how to find players for their own groups. Please note that it is unlikely to be useful if you're not willing to do the GMing; the way I saw it, it can get players, but not GMs (of course, after a few adventures, one player might be interested in GMing, but that's another ordeal).

The 'incident' occured when I was at one of those semi-trendy cafes with a friend, who is both a real talker and a fellow GM (who always has more games going than I, for reasons that will maybe become clear). We had an overpriced shake and an overpriced coffee, and were sitting around swapping ideas for adventures, worlds and the sort. We got into a minor debate over some detail so insignificant that I have already forgot what it was, and Jonas (my friend) leans back and asks the people at the next 'table' (okay, beanbag chairs and a round log for placing beverages on) for their opinion. Total strangers, but something anyone might do. They answer as best they can, and he asks if they agree, causing a brief debate amongst them. Two minutes later, everything was back to normal.

A coffee and a shake (I like shakes) later, he starts spontaneously chatting with the neighboring 'table', based partly on what they answered, and our two 'tables' 'merge' into one.

Now up till this point, it's all just casual socializing, even if it is a bit 'expansionist'. But the interesting things hapen after this...

Based on the earlier question and some chat about movies, Jonas starts asking "what if" questions to these people. "What if you had to stop a homicidal maniac?" "What if you had to check a crime scene for clues", that kind of stuff. Finally, I realize where he is going, as he asks them "okay, if you were all private investigators...". Basically, he turns the "what if" questions into an improvised game session based on an occult investigation adventure I had myself been a player in once (I did not participate in the cafe, I just watched), complete with "okay, the house looks like this..." and character impersonation. An RPG adventure, just without stats; characters were kinda improvised by saying "okay, you're good at this but bad at that" as events occured. Some of the unwitting players noted it on napkins, some just remembered it.

The thing lasted about 40 minutes. They didn't get through the 'adventure', but when Jonas himself ended it, he invited them to continue "with some stuff I normally use", which I knew to mean GURPS Lite. Three out of five complete strangers became a new gaming group that way.

I don't know how long this 'sudden gaming group' will last, but watching it happen was impressing. If you have a friend like that, or are equally spontaneous, I'd love to hear of any similar experiences. Maybe there is a whole hunting ground out there for the taking :-)

Well, you have to consume!
Drink, and be merry, that shalt be the whole of the law.

Quote from: JimBobOzWhenever I've gamed at a cafe, the owners cared because the gamers often stayed ages and never bought anything. That wasn't hating them for being gamers, though, but for being tightarses.

Yeah, that's pretty silly.  My boardgame group meets in a bookstore/cafe, a restaurant, and a natural foods store (with food for sale), and in all three places a bunch of the members pick up at least a drink, and usually a lot more.  And so far we're more than welcome to return month after month.

Side note:
What people should do to get folks roleplaying is not to tell them they can play "Despirate Housewives" with PTA.  Tell them they can play World of Warcraft with beer with D&D.