excellent rant.  that has to be the most retarded "rpg" idea yet.

the endless stream of morons in the world continues. . . .

Quote from: jcfialaSide note:
What people should do to get folks roleplaying is not to tell them they can play "Despirate Housewives" with PTA.  Tell them they can play World of Warcraft with beer with D&D.

Now that could be a good way of doing things.

I know a guy who says, "I'm in the closet as a gamer, I don't tell my workmates or anyone." The thing is... he works in IT. At least half of them were gamers once, and the other half at least played World of Warcraft or something.

He could put up a poster at his workplace.

Quote from: jrientsWhoever wants to hold up PTA as the best newbie game needs to explain why the Dallas RPG tanked.  Then we can talk.

Well, for one thing, despite it being labeled a RPG, it's really more of a boardgame.

For another thing, I don't think anyone was aware of its existence at the time.  Even if they were, it was a SPI game being marketed to the existing wargame/D&D crowd, not the target audience it should have been aimed at.

That's really a problem with a lot of licensed RPGs.

Interesting corollary:

Our Age of Worms campaign started out in an adventure gaming Cafe (Magic the Gathering, Battletech, RPGs, LAN, WoW etc.) called Mystery Island. Berlin always had at least one "Gamer Cafe".
We moved our campaign to a different location, because the staff was not serving us enough! They were all busy playing WoW, instead of treating the customers right...
They would even go *sigh* if you ordered too much stuff that needed a bit more work, like a latte or a hot chocolate.

Stupid WoW junkies...

Well half a year after we left the venue, they closed down.

On a related note, the World of Warcraft has a D&D based ruleset out, quite slick and popular, really. I think Blizzards is pimping it to expand THEIR hobby, not the other way around.

Talk about a slick method of getting table toppers: Bring out the actual WoW books instead of the D&D books.

Quote from: GabrielWell, for one thing, despite it being labeled a RPG, it's really more of a boardgame.

I'll leave it to Pundit to draw the obvious but insulting parallel here.

QuoteFor another thing, I don't think anyone was aware of its existence at the time.

As opposed to huge the mainstream attention PTA is getting?

Whatever brings sane people to gaming, Spike.
If you need to to dye RPG´s hair blonde to have her getting laid, so be it.

Wow, I thought they were just stupidly ignoring D&D, but apparently they really do hate it, judging by this thread.

Quote from: Adam KleizerIn DnD, any narration [by which they mean, "describing what my guy does or says"] made by a player except the GM is meaningless, since it can only be color. Describing the belongings or thoughts of a character (etc.) has no mechanical reward and narrating events is the exclusive right of the GM. Non-GM narration is near to non-existent in DnD, how the hell would it be meaningful then? I think it's not the way it's meant to be played.

So for example if I say, "Sir Jim sneers at the Baron," apparently that's meaningless. Which is funny, because I've had the GM then respond, "The Baron orders Sir Jim taken to the dungeons and clapped in irons!"

They also call D&D, "essentially a miniatures game."

More and more I think that bad rpg theory comes out of bad gaming. As Uncle Ronny said, "My straightforward observation of roleplaying is that many gamers are not having any fun." In games with him in them? Probably not.

"I had some bad gaming. I'll create a theory about it."

Maybe that's how Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus got written, the writer had a couple of bad dates.

QuoteThey also call D&D, "essentially a miniatures game."

This is wrong on so many levels, only roll playing vs role playing is more inane.

Quote from: JimBobOzThey also call D&D, "essentially a miniatures game."

Would that make Sorcerer "essentially" a dice-matching game?

Or Nobilis "essentially" a bidding game?

People cleverer than I can probably play this reductio ad stupido all day.

QuoteThey also call D&D, "essentially a miniatures game.

It goes both ways. I was attacked at rpg.net for saying that D&D is a wargame. Now, I mentioned it as part of a continuing conversation with someone on a different forum, so they missed the original intent of the statement, which was not meant to say that it is solely a wargame. People cannot reconcile elements that don't fit in their paradigms - they must sometimes define a game with a single characteristic (it can't be a wargame and a roleplaying game, it must be the one that I prefer). D&D is a wargame at heart - that is its origins, but it's not to say that it is not a roleplaying game - it can be both, but the mechanics come from the traditional rules for wargames. In fact, the latest iteration is even closer to a wargame than say Basic/Expert/etc. D&D from the 80s.

Quote from: jrientsWould that make Sorcerer "essentially" a dice-matching game? Or Nobilis "essentially" a bidding game?

My point above is that statements like this shouldn't be taken so literally. While games can be many things, some people just view them as one or other, when in fact they are many things. That is their paradigm. You can't change their minds on the subject - I wouldn't even bother trying.

The pro-Forge agenda that is so prevalent forces this absolute categorization because of their theories. If it ain't like Sorcerer, it's not to be played, and even worse, it should be admonished because it doesn't promote proper play. Go figure

Quote from: JimBobOzThat's Prime Time Adventures, an rpg which aims to let you play like characters in a tv show, either a real one or your own.

You've got to link these quotes, RPGPundit, so we can go and see the insanity for ourselves. Is this prompted by my earlier linking of the guys saying that The Mountain Witch was an example of "an rpg accessible to the mainstream [general non-gaming public]"?

That's what prompted me to make the horrible horrible mistake of looking at Storygames, yes.  The thread where I pulled the above quote from is here.

To get a perspective on just how utterly fucking out of touch these shitheads are, they spend 53 posts and counting bemoaning how will they ever be able to appeal to the mainstream and which RPG could possibly appeal to the sentiment of the common man; and come up with these as their front runners:

The Shab Al-Hiri Roach
Mountain Witch
PTA
Breaking the Ice
Shooting the Moon
My life with Master
Waiting for the Queen/Tea At Midnight
Contenders
It Was A Mutual Decision
Bacchanal

I mean, WHAT THE FUCK??!!! What the fuck is wrong with them?? These people need to be disemboweled!! They're begging for someone to beat their skulls in to end their miserable existence, because they're so clearly out of touch with anything even approaching either RPGs or Mainstream society!

These fuckers need to bleed from the fucking neck! I mean they can't even believe this themselves, can they?? I mean either they're all a little microsociety that has agreed to mutually lie to one another and play a game of fucking "let's pretend we're the normal people and everyone's like us", or they really are truly delusional to the point where they're a danger to themselves and others. Mostly themselves, if I get to them.

I mean, they don't put D&D, or anything D20, or WFRP, or GURPS, or...fuck, any game that's ever been played by more than 100 different people in its entire history; and yet later they try to honestly, straightfacedly claim that they have nothing against mainstream RPGs, that they're not out to transform the RPG hobby by their lies and subversion and force if necessary.  They lie like dogs, like the worst kind of scheming politicians. They're scum.

Fuck's sake.

RPGPundit

Quote from: GabrielAnd, even more anecdotally, when I'd do open recruitment for Robotech and Marvel games, I'd get people playing who would NEVER, EVER play D&D and would never have touched a RPG otherwise.

Ok, that's just wonderful, but Robotech and Marvel are also clearly on these fuckers' lists of "games that only the brain damaged play, that couldn't possibly appeal to mainstream society".  Nevermind the INCREDIBLE POPULARITY of manga/anime; nevermind the ASTOUNDING box office success of various Comic-book license movies.

no. According to them, what "Normal" people want to play is either victorian academics getting upset about a cockroach, or Japanese folktales, or they really want to be Mr.Furley or Urkel or Roseanne Barr.

These fuckers can't even understand the wants and interests of normal GAMERS.  They wouldn't understand normal people in general if their life depended on it.  They're so far from "normal" that they're in orbit around a distant star several supergalaxies from normal.

People who like fantasy and sci-fi, we're NORMAL. They're the ones, these fuckers, who are ABNORMAL. They're the ones who have to be purged. They're the ones we have to get rid of. If we can get rid of the fucking Swine and the Lawncrappers, then there'd be fuck all to distinguish us from any other normal hobby.

Shit, this hobby began to deviate from a "mainstream" fun activity when it got taken over, SUBVERTED by the same kind of fuckers that are writing  and whining and moaning about how to connect to "normal people" today.

RPGPundit

Quote from: GabrielWell, for one thing, despite it being labeled a RPG, it's really more of a boardgame.

You mean just like your fucking "Storygames" are more like boardgames than RPGs? With their fucking gimmicky mechanics and "rolling to see if you overcome your grief"??

Yeah, thanks for proving my fucking point.

RPGPundit

Quote from: jcfialaWhat people should do to get folks roleplaying is not to tell them they can play "Despirate Housewives" with PTA.  Tell them they can play World of Warcraft with beer with D&D.

I'm more then willing to play "Desperate Housewives" with some people, but I'm not going to be using Prime Time Adventures if I do...

But, you know, Storygames wants to put out a list of what they'd offer beginning roleplayers and mine is totally different...