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Non D&D Opengaming licensed rulesets

Started by GeekyBugle, June 26, 2019, 05:32:43 PM

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GeekyBugle

#60
July 01, 2019, 10:38:19 PM
Quote from: JRT;1094280There are some games that deal with Lovecraft works that aren't part of Chaosium.  The character of Cthulhu, is one of them.

There are publishers who've done their own take on Cthulhu and some of the Lovecraft Mythos.  They include the following.

* CthulhuTech
* Fate of Cthulhu
* Delta Green (once licensed, but now on its own with some changes)
* Trail of Cthulhu.
* Paizo has several creatures in Pathfinder, including stats for Cthulhu
* Sandy Petersen has released his own take on the Mythos for Pathfinder and 5e.


The key thing you need to do is the following.

* Do research on what stories are public domain, and exactly what's in them.  You are free to use that as a base.
* Similarly, do research on what isn't--what stories are still under copyright, etc.  For example, Dark Young as a concept was created by Petersen for CoC, so you should avoid copying that.  (Although he used it himself in a non Chaosium game).  I'd especially avoid copying any concept (being, spell, interpretation) that originated in the Chaosium supplements.

I have my plate already full with the game I'm writing and the ones in the backburner for which I'm just taking notes when the inspiration strikes. Besides It not really being my cup of tea as a game, which is why I say I'm willing to help in the writing of a mythos but not to do it myself.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Simlasa

#61
July 02, 2019, 02:35:56 AM Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 03:15:16 AM by Simlasa
Quote from: JRT;1094280For example, Dark Young as a concept was created by Petersen for CoC, so you should avoid copying that.  (Although he used it himself in a non Chaosium game).
I'm pretty sure the 'Dark Young' idea comes from Robert Bloch's 'Notebook Found In A Deserted House'... similar in description (many hoofed, log/tree like, associated with Shub Niggurath and druids).. though in that story the creature is referred to as a Shoggoth.

If someone were to start working on an OGL D100 Cthulhu it would make sense to go back to the well for inspiration anyway. Develop their own interpretation and push elements that haven't been so thoroughly covered. Like, I don't think CoC has ever done much with the creepy lost civilization in The Mound.

BoxCrayonTales

#62
July 02, 2019, 07:46:51 AM
I don't understand what the issue with Chaosium is. Are they trying to maintain a monopoly on BRP Cthulhu mythos? I'm pretty sure they're already protected by trademark and copyright law, at least for those materials they made themselves since they have a paper trail for those copyrights.

Chaosium definitely comes across like bullies here, but the fans are making the mistake of trying to create a clone of CoC in the first place. The differences between editions aren't extreme enough to justify making an OpenCthulhu unless the intent is to serve as free advertising for Chaosium without infringing on their trademarks and copyrights.

The entire point of GORE was to allow 3pp for Call of Cthulhu, not direct competition.

estar

#63
July 02, 2019, 08:41:45 AM
A minor victory of sorts. We will see if it makes to the Chaosium website.

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/9809-just-a-reminder-there-is-no-ogl-for-brp-rq-or-coc/?do=findComment&comment=145867


Q: What about Mongoose's Legend?

A: Legend is its own thing and not under license from Chaosium or Moon Design Publications. Mongoose was perfectly entitled to take their work, remove from it those elements that were derived from RuneQuest or Glorantha and give it its own name, and then do with it as they see fit. Legend is not RuneQuest or BRP or Call of Cthulhu, and nor does it purport to be.

If Mongoose wants to do a OGL of their original work, that is not Chaosium's issue or concern.

estar

#64
July 02, 2019, 08:48:11 AM
Also looking over the various SRD that Mongoose released there is probably an issue with the first one as it is labeled as the Runquest System Document. While it doesn't have any Glorantha IP the text is peppered with the use of the trademarked name Runequest.

http://b5quest.pbworks.com/f/MRQ-SRD.pdf

The second version however is labeled as the D100 II System Document and there is Legends as well.

Armchair Gamer

#65
July 02, 2019, 09:33:04 AM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1094326The entire point of GORE was to allow 3pp for Call of Cthulhu, not direct competition.

   Which raises the question ... now that a lot of companies have opened up licensing and community content programs, have the concepts of retroclones and the OGL lost some of their raison d'etre?

Delete_me

#66
July 02, 2019, 09:36:01 AM
Probably, but only because it succeeded, I would say.

GeekyBugle

#67
July 02, 2019, 11:30:00 AM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1094334Which raises the question ... now that a lot of companies have opened up licensing and community content programs, have the concepts of retroclones and the OGL lost some of their raison d'etre?

Only if you think licensing and community content programs can't be revoked. The OGL is forever, next year those same companies could say fuck the licensing and community content programs and close that door for future developers.

Or if you think that the only utility the OGL has is for retroclones or TPC for a game.

Besides being an advocate of Free & Libre everywhere I think the OGL is a better solution for TPC since it can't be revoked, WotC can't judge me not woke enough to publish any material I deem worthy of publishing. A license can be revoked, community content can be made to be subject to approval by the politburo.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Simlasa

#68
July 02, 2019, 01:01:20 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1094326Chaosium definitely comes across like bullies here, but the fans are making the mistake of trying to create a clone of CoC in the first place. The differences between editions aren't extreme enough to justify making an OpenCthulhu unless the intent is to serve as free advertising for Chaosium without infringing on their trademarks and copyrights.
The entire point of GORE was to allow 3pp for Call of Cthulhu, not direct competition.
I don't think it was a mistake to to create a clone of CoC, just how they went about it. Nor do I think there was any real intent to compete with Chaosium CoC. I think it's like GeekyBugle says, it's people who like the game but want to create stuff without the concern of corporate whimsy hanging over them. Lamentations of the Flame Princess is no threat to 5e D&D, but I'd never see that sort of content if were just left up to WOTC.
I'd hoped we could have seen it through GORE, but that seems iffy now.

Lynn

#69
July 02, 2019, 01:18:31 PM
Quote from: Simlasa;1094306If someone were to start working on an OGL D100 Cthulhu it would make sense to go back to the well for inspiration anyway. Develop their own interpretation and push elements that haven't been so thoroughly covered. Like, I don't think CoC has ever done much with the creepy lost civilization in The Mound.

I have been working on a system that I think is a better fit for HPL than D100.  I agree. RQ/Basic Role Playing has nothing in it that makes it a great fit for the genre but a few minor adaptations and that it is strongly skill based. You can do something just as good in adapting many systems.
Lynn Fredricks
Entrepreneurial Hat Collector

Lynn

#70
July 02, 2019, 01:21:36 PM
Quote from: estar;1094327A minor victory of sorts. We will see if it makes to the Chaosium website.

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/9809-just-a-reminder-there-is-no-ogl-for-brp-rq-or-coc/?do=findComment&comment=145867


Q: What about Mongoose's Legend?

A: Legend is its own thing and not under license from Chaosium or Moon Design Publications. Mongoose was perfectly entitled to take their work, remove from it those elements that were derived from RuneQuest or Glorantha and give it its own name, and then do with it as they see fit. Legend is not RuneQuest or BRP or Call of Cthulhu, and nor does it purport to be.

If Mongoose wants to do a OGL of their original work, that is not Chaosium's issue or concern.

The blog entry you made was quite informative (I went ahead and shared it on Twitter) and maybe that had some impact. I notice they also closed the thread too with this.
Lynn Fredricks
Entrepreneurial Hat Collector

Simlasa

#71
July 02, 2019, 01:28:52 PM
Quote from: Lynn;1094355You can do something just as good in adapting many systems.
Probably so, but I like D100 and it's what I prefer over learning some new system. I don't want to change the basic pre-7e mechanics, just open up the content to other interpretations of the original sources... see things explored that nu-Chaosium might not see as a good fit for the action-adventure game CoC has moved towards.

GeekyBugle

#72
July 02, 2019, 01:38:46 PM
Quote from: Simlasa;1094354I don't think it was a mistake to to create a clone of CoC, just how they went about it. Nor do I think there was any real intent to compete with Chaosium CoC. I think it's like GeekyBugle says, it's people who like the game but want to create stuff without the concern of corporate whimsy hanging over them. Lamentations of the Flame Princess is no threat to 5e D&D, but I'd never see that sort of content if were just left up to WOTC.
I'd hoped we could have seen it through GORE, but that seems iffy now.

Legend is good tho, it has no reference to RQ anywhere. So the only concern is really with what parts of the Lovecraftian Mythos can you legally use. Or you make a whole new mythos in a Lovecraftian-ish flavor.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

jhkim

#73
July 02, 2019, 01:41:56 PM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1094334Which raises the question ... now that a lot of companies have opened up licensing and community content programs, have the concepts of retroclones and the OGL lost some of their raison d'etre?
A lot of companies had licensing programs prior to the OGL. The problem is that licensing could easily be revoked, which is why the OGL made such a big difference compared to licensing. Creators are much happier working on something that can continue to exist in some form, rather than being at the whim of the license creator.

BoxCrayonTales

#74
July 02, 2019, 03:13:14 PM
Quote from: Simlasa;1094357Probably so, but I like D100 and it's what I prefer over learning some new system. I don't want to change the basic pre-7e mechanics, just open up the content to other interpretations of the original sources... see things explored that nu-Chaosium might not see as a good fit for the action-adventure game CoC has moved towards.

What is wrong with the 7e mechanics?
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