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Non D&D Opengaming licensed rulesets

Started by GeekyBugle, June 26, 2019, 05:32:43 PM

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GeekyBugle

#30
June 28, 2019, 12:45:07 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1093941Opening the Dark is an OGL clone of the Storyteller System.

Nope, it's a CC-By-NC, so not any OGL license.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

kythri

#31
June 28, 2019, 01:02:37 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1093956I feel we don't have enough info on this, and (at least me) lack the knowledge to make a judgment on if it's just a dick move or not.

Yeah, i'd like to read what's being discussed on Yog-Sothoth myself, beforehand.  It was mentioned above that Chaosium's takedown/C&D involved Derleth copyrights?  I wasn't aware that Chaosium was the agent for the Derleth estate.

BrokenCounsel

#32
June 28, 2019, 01:17:34 PM
Quote from: kythri;1093958Yeah, i'd like to read what's being discussed on Yog-Sothoth myself, beforehand.  It was mentioned above that Chaosium's takedown/C&D involved Derleth copyrights?  I wasn't aware that Chaosium was the agent for the Derleth estate.

From what I can see on that YS.com thread, Chaosium weren't trying to claim they were Derleth's agents or acting on his behalf, but pointing out that the Open Cthulhu thing infringed on several copyright areas - some theirs, some belonging to others. You need to read the thread itself really.

Newt

#33
June 28, 2019, 02:04:24 PM Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 02:05:10 PM by Newt
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1093953Reading the legal stuff at the end of your pdf it cites Mongoose's, yes, Chaosium has always allowed it, but. What if I decide to take OpenQuest and use it to make OpenCthulhu? Will they do the same?

Yes. The relevant bit of the OGL is Section 7, which bascially says you invalidate the license if you use someone one else's IP and that the OGL doesn't give you license to use someone elses IP unless you have the writen consent of the IP's owner.

What people tend to do is contact me and say "Err can I use OpenQuest to be the base of my Simarillion RPG?" and I say "Heck no! Do you have Tolkien Enterprise's written permission" (that's a true example, once the author pulled out all the Tolkien references and worked on it abit more to make it more its own thing it became Age of Shadows :) )

I've lost count of the number of times people have said I should do OpenQuest Cthulhu and I simply turn round and say "No" :D
;O)Newt
Benevolent Dictator of d101games.com publisher of Crypts and Things, OpenQuest, Monkey, and Hearts in Glorantha.

GeekyBugle

#34
June 28, 2019, 02:26:36 PM
Quote from: Newt;1093963Yes. The relevant bit of the OGL is Section 7, which bascially says you invalidate the license if you use someone one else's IP and that the OGL doesn't give you license to use someone elses IP unless you have the writen consent of the IP's owner.

What people tend to do is contact me and say "Err can I use OpenQuest to be the base of my Simarillion RPG?" and I say "Heck no! Do you have Tolkien Enterprise's written permission" (that's a true example, once the author pulled out all the Tolkien references and worked on it abit more to make it more its own thing it became Age of Shadows :) )

I've lost count of the number of times people have said I should do OpenQuest Cthulhu and I simply turn round and say "No" :D

But aren't the writings of Lovecraft on the public domain?
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

jhkim

#35
June 28, 2019, 05:55:12 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1093965But aren't the writings of Lovecraft on the public domain?
Probably, but Chaosium is claiming that some of his works are still copyrighted and they hold the rights. See this page,

https://lovecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Copyright_status_of_works_by_H._P._Lovecraft

According to EU and minimum Berne convention rules, all of his stories are public domain. According to U.S. rules, all stories published before 1924 are definitely public domain (maximum of publication date + 95 years), and stories published after 1924 might be public domain depending on the licensing. If the copyright was held by him personally, then they are public domain. If they were "works for hire", then they would have had to have been properly renewed (which it isn't clear that they were) but they could still be under U.S. copyright.

GeekyBugle

#36
June 28, 2019, 05:59:03 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1093984Probably, but Chaosium is claiming that some of his works are still copyrighted and they hold the rights. See this page,

https://lovecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Copyright_status_of_works_by_H._P._Lovecraft

According to EU and minimum Berne convention rules, all of his stories are public domain. According to U.S. rules, all stories published before 1924 are definitely public domain (maximum of publication date + 95 years), and stories published after 1924 might be public domain depending on the licensing. If the copyright was held by him personally, then they are public domain. If they were "works for hire", then they would have had to have been properly renewed (which it isn't clear that they were) but they could still be under U.S. copyright.

I hate Disney.

That being said who's up for the challenge of creating a public domain lovecraftian'ish pantheon?
I would gladly help.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Lynn

#37
June 28, 2019, 07:12:39 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1093984Probably, but Chaosium is claiming that some of his works are still copyrighted and they hold the rights. See this page,

https://lovecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Copyright_status_of_works_by_H._P._Lovecraft

Something interesting to note here:

http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4805:az8rwi.4.18

You'll see a word mark on Call of Cthulhu, but not the name of the story The Call of Cthulhu.
Lynn Fredricks
Entrepreneurial Hat Collector

Lynn

#38
June 28, 2019, 07:20:52 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1093956Not only that, currently there are several d100 based games using the same stuff, yet none is being made to stop. This might have a legal meaning or not (not an expert myself), but all of that is useless if you don't have the money needed to stand a lawsuit even if you had 100% chance of wining. I feel we don't have enough info on this, and (at least me) lack the knowledge to make a judgment on if it's just a dick move or not.

Yes, it is really problematic, and likely Chaosium doesn't have a clear sense about what they have. But it is cheap and free to say you have total rights to X, so long as someone doesn't call you on it and take you to court.

I suspect also that many of the generational changes in 7th edition were put there because there are so many d100 based games (that can fill that niche, like Raiders of Rleyh), just like you said.
Lynn Fredricks
Entrepreneurial Hat Collector

GeekyBugle

#39
June 28, 2019, 07:49:52 PM
Quote from: Lynn;1094004Something interesting to note here:

http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4805:az8rwi.4.18

You'll see a word mark on Call of Cthulhu, but not the name of the story The Call of Cthulhu.

Session expired, where did you search and what did you search?
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Lynn

#40
June 28, 2019, 08:56:37 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1094010Session expired, where did you search and what did you search?

Just go to http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/ and do a basic search on Cthulhu. It will pull up a list with Cthulhu in it, including one dead item and one live item for Call of Cthulhu.
Lynn Fredricks
Entrepreneurial Hat Collector

GeekyBugle

#41
June 28, 2019, 09:17:29 PM
Quote from: Lynn;1094016Just go to http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/ and do a basic search on Cthulhu. It will pull up a list with Cthulhu in it, including one dead item and one live item for Call of Cthulhu.

Thanks!
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

jhkim

#42
June 28, 2019, 09:57:24 PM
Quote from: Lynn;1094016Just go to http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/ and do a basic search on Cthulhu. It will pull up a list with Cthulhu in it, including one dead item and one live item for Call of Cthulhu.
Quote from: Lynn;1094004You'll see a word mark on Call of Cthulhu, but not the name of the story The Call of Cthulhu.
Note that this is about trademark, not copyright. Trademarks can last forever, but they're only about the title and advertising of a work -- not the inner content. A trademark has no relation to the copyright status of a story.

Trademarks also don't depend much on exact wording. You can't use look-alike trademarks like opening a new restaurant called "The McDonald's Cafe", or releasing an RPG called "The Call of Cthulhu Adventure Game".

Lynn

#43
June 28, 2019, 11:08:25 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1094023Trademarks also don't depend much on exact wording. You can't use look-alike trademarks like opening a new restaurant called "The McDonald's Cafe", or releasing an RPG called "The Call of Cthulhu Adventure Game".

I would be surprised if someone actually copied text from any edition of Call of Cthulhu. Have you heard of someone doing that?

The trademark situation is interesting though, since they effectively copied the name of a story that likely is in the public domain now.

I can't imagine anyone would have the stones to market an RPG called "The Call of Cthulhu Adventure Game" but it would be fun to see someone try to launch a game on Kickstarter with it.

But then, look at those other trademarks on RPGs that include Cthulhu in the title.
Lynn Fredricks
Entrepreneurial Hat Collector

kythri

#44
June 29, 2019, 11:10:24 AM
Quote from: jhkim;1094023Trademarks also don't depend much on exact wording. You can't use look-alike trademarks like opening a new restaurant called "The McDonald's Cafe", or releasing an RPG called "The Call of Cthulhu Adventure Game".

Which is why my The Communiqué of Cthulhu RPG that I'm releasing is safe.
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