I was told that GenCon was run by very Progressive people and it was a SafeSpace and for it to be so, people to the right of Mao had to be excluded so to make it more Inclusive! I'm sorry for the victim, I fear this will keep on happening until the WokeCult is expelled.
https://archive.is/EMBnU (https://archive.is/EMBnU)
https://twitter.com/That_DentonDick/status/1557800310562869248 (https://twitter.com/That_DentonDick/status/1557800310562869248)
Shouldn't she have just used an X-card and everything would have been fine? -JK!
Sounds like her roommate was an alcoholic, drunk people do not have a lot of self-control so when left to their own devices they will self-destruct :/
Quote from: Krugus on August 11, 2022, 06:22:54 PM
Shouldn't she have just used an X-card and everything would have been fine? -JK!
Sounds like her roommate was an alcoholic, drunk people do not have a lot of self-control so when left to their own devices they will self-destruct :/
Her roomate was also a trans"woman". Me thinks the alcohol isn't to blame here, I got drunk many many times, not once did I try to rape a woman.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 11, 2022, 06:30:22 PM
Quote from: Krugus on August 11, 2022, 06:22:54 PM
Shouldn't she have just used an X-card and everything would have been fine? -JK!
Sounds like her roommate was an alcoholic, drunk people do not have a lot of self-control so when left to their own devices they will self-destruct :/
Her roomate was also a trans"woman". Me thinks the alcohol isn't to blame here, I got drunk many many times, not once did I try to rape a woman.
I'm just referring to those that harbor those "urges" that drink will free them of their last bit of self-control.
So, if this individual already had those thoughts of doing this getting drunk would defiantly remove what little self-control they had left (yes, I'm being captain obvious here)
Quote from: Krugus on August 11, 2022, 06:36:11 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 11, 2022, 06:30:22 PM
Quote from: Krugus on August 11, 2022, 06:22:54 PM
Shouldn't she have just used an X-card and everything would have been fine? -JK!
Sounds like her roommate was an alcoholic, drunk people do not have a lot of self-control so when left to their own devices they will self-destruct :/
Her roomate was also a trans"woman". Me thinks the alcohol isn't to blame here, I got drunk many many times, not once did I try to rape a woman.
I'm just referring to those that harbor those "urges" that drink will free them of their last bit of self-control.
So, if this individual already had those thoughts of doing this getting drunk would defiantly remove what little self-control they had left (yes, I'm being captain obvious here)
Right, the guy was already a rapist in waiting.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 11, 2022, 06:14:32 PM
I was told that GenCon was run by very Progressive people and it was a SafeSpace and for it to be so, people to the right of Mao had to be excluded so to make it more Inclusive! I'm sorry for the victim, I fear this will keep on happening until the WokeCult is expelled.
https://archive.is/EMBnU (https://archive.is/EMBnU)
https://twitter.com/That_DentonDick/status/1557800310562869248 (https://twitter.com/That_DentonDick/status/1557800310562869248)
Holy crap, you can not make this stuff up. The fascists and groomers are self identifying and they don't care cause they think they're untouchable. Thanks for posting this Geeky!
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on August 11, 2022, 08:25:47 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 11, 2022, 06:14:32 PM
I was told that GenCon was run by very Progressive people and it was a SafeSpace and for it to be so, people to the right of Mao had to be excluded so to make it more Inclusive! I'm sorry for the victim, I fear this will keep on happening until the WokeCult is expelled.
https://archive.is/EMBnU (https://archive.is/EMBnU)
https://twitter.com/That_DentonDick/status/1557800310562869248 (https://twitter.com/That_DentonDick/status/1557800310562869248)
Holy crap, you can not make this stuff up. The fascists and groomers are self identifying and they don't care cause they think they're untouchable. Thanks for posting this Geeky!
Greetings!
So true, my friend!
All these Woke fuckers have been living in fucking la-la bubble land, where no one has busted a lamp over their head, or shoved a champaigne bottle through their teeth. "Cuddles"? Forcefully draping your body and limbs on a peron sharing a bed? Good way to get fucking deleted, hard, in the world I have lived in.
None of these jackasses know what the fuck RESPECT is, and they sure as fuck don't understand what BOUNDARIES are. Strange how for all the endless diarhea about "Love"; "Acceptance"; "Tolerance"; and "Respect"--they somehow can't control themselves when it comes to wanting to sex up a woman, young boys, or children.
Strange how these "Boundary Violations" and absolute disrespct never occur against a grizzled veteran, or a bearded biker.
It is always against women, adolecents, or children. Imagine that.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on August 11, 2022, 09:06:02 PM
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on August 11, 2022, 08:25:47 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 11, 2022, 06:14:32 PM
I was told that GenCon was run by very Progressive people and it was a SafeSpace and for it to be so, people to the right of Mao had to be excluded so to make it more Inclusive! I'm sorry for the victim, I fear this will keep on happening until the WokeCult is expelled.
https://archive.is/EMBnU (https://archive.is/EMBnU)
https://twitter.com/That_DentonDick/status/1557800310562869248 (https://twitter.com/That_DentonDick/status/1557800310562869248)
Holy crap, you can not make this stuff up. The fascists and groomers are self identifying and they don't care cause they think they're untouchable. Thanks for posting this Geeky!
Greetings!
So true, my friend!
All these Woke fuckers have been living in fucking la-la bubble land, where no one has busted a lamp over their head, or shoved a champaigne bottle through their teeth. "Cuddles"? Forcefully draping your body and limbs on a peron sharing a bed? Good way to get fucking deleted, hard, in the world I have lived in.
None of these jackasses know what the fuck RESPECT is, and they sure as fuck don't understand what BOUNDARIES are. Strange how for all the endless diarhea about "Love"; "Acceptance"; "Tolerance"; and "Respect"--they somehow can't control themselves when it comes to wanting to sex up a woman, young boys, or children.
Strange how these "Boundary Violations" and absolute disrespct never occur against a grizzled veteran, or a bearded biker.
It is always against women, adolecents, or children. Imagine that.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
There's a reason we patriarchal, hetero normative, muhsoggykneests thought having women share a room, bathroom, prison cell, changing room, etc. with men wasn't a good idea.
Quote from: SHARK on August 11, 2022, 09:06:02 PM
Strange how these "Boundary Violations" and absolute disrespct never occur against a grizzled veteran, or a bearded biker.
It is always against women, adolecents, or children. Imagine that.
Predators will prey on the weak. They're only brave in packs.
So this sick bastard wants to be a woman, eh? I kinda feel like helping him by removing his manhood... with a .45 ACP.
Quote from: Effete on August 11, 2022, 09:27:28 PM
Quote from: SHARK on August 11, 2022, 09:06:02 PM
Strange how these "Boundary Violations" and absolute disrespct never occur against a grizzled veteran, or a bearded biker.
It is always against women, adolecents, or children. Imagine that.
Predators will prey on the weak. They're only brave in packs.
.......
Yup, when they're in the "in crowd" they think nothing can touch them.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 11, 2022, 09:25:04 PM
Quote from: SHARK on August 11, 2022, 09:06:02 PM
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on August 11, 2022, 08:25:47 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 11, 2022, 06:14:32 PM
I was told that GenCon was run by very Progressive people and it was a SafeSpace and for it to be so, people to the right of Mao had to be excluded so to make it more Inclusive! I'm sorry for the victim, I fear this will keep on happening until the WokeCult is expelled.
https://archive.is/EMBnU (https://archive.is/EMBnU)
https://twitter.com/That_DentonDick/status/1557800310562869248 (https://twitter.com/That_DentonDick/status/1557800310562869248)
Holy crap, you can not make this stuff up. The fascists and groomers are self identifying and they don't care cause they think they're untouchable. Thanks for posting this Geeky!
Greetings!
So true, my friend!
All these Woke fuckers have been living in fucking la-la bubble land, where no one has busted a lamp over their head, or shoved a champaigne bottle through their teeth. "Cuddles"? Forcefully draping your body and limbs on a peron sharing a bed? Good way to get fucking deleted, hard, in the world I have lived in.
None of these jackasses know what the fuck RESPECT is, and they sure as fuck don't understand what BOUNDARIES are. Strange how for all the endless diarhea about "Love"; "Acceptance"; "Tolerance"; and "Respect"--they somehow can't control themselves when it comes to wanting to sex up a woman, young boys, or children.
Strange how these "Boundary Violations" and absolute disrespct never occur against a grizzled veteran, or a bearded biker.
It is always against women, adolecents, or children. Imagine that.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
There's a reason we patriarchal, hetero normative, muhsoggykneests thought having women share a room, bathroom, prison cell, changing room, etc. with men wasn't a good idea.
Greetings!
*Laughing* Exactly, Hermano!
I can recall many occasions where groups of us men slept together, in the military. In a foxhole, two Marines dig the foxhole, set up the machine gun, get squared away, and sleep shoulder to shoulder. Trying also to keep warm on freezing nights and under the fucking rain. Never a problem. Traveling, sleeping together on planes, trains, in Humvees. On Greyhound buses. Yes, even sharing hotel rooms, typically 4 to 6 Marines in a single fucking room. Sharing the same bed, crashed out like dogs on the floor, on couches, ben-bag chairs, whatever. Never any bullshit going on.
As a civilian, even with mixed groups, going camping, to music concerts, game conventions! *laughing* The men sleep together *here*--and the women sleep together *over there*. Close to us, but no mixing. Never any problems.
All these "male feminists" and Woketards though, they are always trying to sex people up. Fucking disgusting. They all need to fucking burn.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Effete on August 11, 2022, 09:27:28 PM
Quote from: SHARK on August 11, 2022, 09:06:02 PM
Strange how these "Boundary Violations" and absolute disrespct never occur against a grizzled veteran, or a bearded biker.
It is always against women, adolecents, or children. Imagine that.
Predators will prey on the weak. They're only brave in packs.
So this sick bastard wants to be a woman, eh? I kinda feel like helping him by removing his manhood... with a .45 ACP.
Greetings!
That's right, Effete! *SHARK looks over at his Glock 21* Such a beautiful weapon! These fucking troglodytes somehow missed out on lessons in manners. It is really sad that no one around them ever checks their bullshit, hard and fast.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on August 11, 2022, 10:28:29 PM
Greetings!
That's right, Effete! *SHARK looks over at his Glock 21* Such a beautiful weapon! These fucking troglodytes somehow missed out on lessons in manners. It is really sad that no one around them ever checks their bullshit, hard and fast.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
This is why women need to be armed. For this exact reason. "TeAcH bOyS nOt To rApE!" No, you dumb feminist bitchez. Buy a personal protection device and take responsibility for your own safety. I bet if the girl from the article reached under her pillow, chambered a round, and said "get the fuck off me right now!" Daisy Dude would have backed the fuck up REALLY quick.
How did GenCon enable the alleged events? Serious question.
Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 06:44:32 AM
How did GenCon enable the alleged events? Serious question.
The enabling was by whoever put the trans in with the real woman, and whoever pressured or fooled the real woman into thinking this was safe and right. I doubt that Gencon did anything.
I see this on Google from the perpetrator - account now deleted:
Dais🌼 (@AWiseArtist) · Twitter
https://twitter.com/AWiseArtist
I'm sorry, I messed up, made people uncomfortable, and behaved poorly.
I centered the situation on myself when I genuinely hurt people. I'm stepping away from Twitter and getting professional help.
I'm genuinely sorry for what happened.
Twitter · 3 days ago
Quote from: S'mon on August 12, 2022, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 06:44:32 AM
How did GenCon enable the alleged events? Serious question.
The enabling was by whoever put the trans in with the real woman, and whoever pressured or fooled the real woman into thinking this was safe and right. I doubt that Gencon did anything.
She fooled herself with Woke "thinking". Doesn't excuse the trans that assaulted her, but unless she leaves the Woke cult there's a decent chance it'll happen to her again, unfortunately.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 11, 2022, 06:14:32 PM
I was told that GenCon was run by very Progressive people and it was a SafeSpace and for it to be so, people to the right of Mao had to be excluded so to make it more Inclusive! I'm sorry for the victim, I fear this will keep on happening until the WokeCult is expelled.
I went to GenCon in 2010 and while I had fun, I thought it was overpriced and overrated. For me I could see everything I wanted to see in a day, though I was there Late Thursday Night until Sunday.
Sounds like it's really gone down hill since then.
Quote from: S'mon on August 12, 2022, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 06:44:32 AM
How did GenCon enable the alleged events? Serious question.
The enabling was by whoever put the trans in with the real woman, and whoever pressured or fooled the real woman into thinking this was safe and right. I doubt that Gencon did anything.
Play silly games, win silly prizes.
Only warning: stay within the topic; this is about misconduct at Gencon, or within the gaming hobby. Not a general thread about leftist sexual assault hypocrisy, or anything else. Off topic posters WILL be banned.
Quote from: S'mon on August 12, 2022, 08:03:52 AM
I see this on Google from the perpetrator - account now deleted:
Dais🌼 (@AWiseArtist) · Twitter
https://twitter.com/AWiseArtist
I'm sorry, I messed up, made people uncomfortable, and behaved poorly.
I centered the situation on myself when I genuinely hurt people. I'm stepping away from Twitter and getting professional help.
I'm genuinely sorry for what happened.
Twitter · 3 days ago
He will be back, they cannot leave their hugbox. This will be swept under the rug and everyone who spoke out against a man dressed as a woman sharing a room with a real woman will be labeled as every single *phobe and *ist under the sun.
Gencon is clearly at fault here for putting a man and a woman in the same hotel room. This is under their watch and they deserve all the fault for it.
Then again they will issue an apology, state they are "going to do better" and next year this will happen when a transexual is put in the room with another woman and it happens again.
GC is backed into a corner as they will not, for whatever reason, put down for room share: "Are you a biological male or female?"
Other's can go share rooms together. That would be a true joy.
Also, let's not forget the SafeSpace that GC offered for BiPOC's. I would've loved to have seen a report on how empty this room was and setup for pure pandering.
Quote from: S'mon on August 12, 2022, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 06:44:32 AM
How did GenCon enable the alleged events? Serious question.
The enabling was by whoever put the trans in with the real woman, and whoever pressured or fooled the real woman into thinking this was safe and right. I doubt that Gencon did anything.
Well, since both were working for GenCon, guess who put them together? GenCon! Thus, by doing so SOME might say (because my lawyer tells me I must not assert anything) they enabled the situation. Furthermore, when she told some higher up they didn't call the police, expell the culprit, changed room arrangements or anything. The woman was forced to sleep in a conference room (IIRC) away from her would be rapist.
Given all of that some people MIGHT be of the OPINION that it's at least partly GenCon's fault.
I never expected this site to become misandrist. Are y'all saying that only men are ever abusers, that this couldn't have happened if it were two ciswomen? Shame, you guys, men are not the only gender capable of abuse.
Or have you turned over a new leaf and want to speak out about protecting victims and ensuring consequences for abusers?
I mean, in the past we've seen unwanted physical contact by a dude in a the bar/restaurant of the hotel hosting a convention get forgiven with a simple teary "I messed up, I had too much to drink." Those folks end up on a list of publishers as "green" because, y'know, they are a-ok.
So, here, we also have a person who had too much to drink, and after the incident, the victim got a new room and the abuser is ... Well, pretty much cancelled. For a person making their living online, complete erasure from all social media is pretty much the end of a career.
If that's "not enough" then I'm looking forward to this new leaf you've turned around, where you'll be huge advocates for the women speaking out against unwanted physical contact.
(and as far as how they ended up in a room together, read the tweets you posted. They were collaborating, and had been working together online for some time, and had arranged to work together at GenCon. This was not GenCon that placed them together. I'm pretty sure that were the abuser a ciswoman, you guys wouldn't have said a peep, and the victim and everyone else involved would have felt the same, so I suspect you're inserting yourself for a reason that no one else brought up, and no one else felt was a factor.)
"Come to GenCon where we offer both physical and sexual abuse!"
- GenCon's new advertising slogan
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 12:01:00 PM
I never expected this site to become misandrist. Are y'all saying that only men are ever abusers, that this couldn't have happened if it were two ciswomen? Shame, you guys, men are not the only gender capable of abuse.
Or have you turned over a new leaf and want to speak out about protecting victims and ensuring consequences for abusers?
I mean, in the past we've seen unwanted physical contact by a dude in a the bar/restaurant of the hotel hosting a convention get forgiven with a simple teary "I messed up, I had too much to drink." Those folks end up on a list of publishers as "green" because, y'know, they are a-ok.
So, here, we also have a person who had too much to drink, and after the incident, the victim got a new room and the abuser is ... Well, pretty much cancelled. For a person making their living online, complete erasure from all social media is pretty much the end of a career.
If that's "not enough" then I'm looking forward to this new leaf you've turned around, where you'll be huge advocates for the women speaking out against unwanted physical contact.
(and as far as how they ended up in a room together, read the tweets you posted. They were collaborating, and had been working together online for some time, and had arranged to work together at GenCon. This was not GenCon that placed them together. I'm pretty sure that were the abuser a ciswoman, you guys wouldn't have said a peep, and the victim and everyone else involved would have felt the same, so I suspect you're inserting yourself for a reason that no one else brought up, and no one else felt was a factor.)
Because working together REQUIRES you to share a room...
As for the rest of your drivel it's not relevant to the thread (except maybe the vague reference to a teary eyed guy but you would need to clarify who, where, when so we can talk about it), and what your mind reading powers tell you of me are even less relevant, here and anywhere.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 12:01:00 PM
I never expected this site to become misandrist. Are y'all saying that only men are ever abusers, that this couldn't have happened if it were two ciswomen? Shame, you guys, men are not the only gender capable of abuse.
Or have you turned over a new leaf and want to speak out about protecting victims and ensuring consequences for abusers?
I mean, in the past we've seen unwanted physical contact by a dude in a the bar/restaurant of the hotel hosting a convention get forgiven with a simple teary "I messed up, I had too much to drink." Those folks end up on a list of publishers as "green" because, y'know, they are a-ok.
So, here, we also have a person who had too much to drink, and after the incident, the victim got a new room and the abuser is ... Well, pretty much cancelled. For a person making their living online, complete erasure from all social media is pretty much the end of a career.
If that's "not enough" then I'm looking forward to this new leaf you've turned around, where you'll be huge advocates for the women speaking out against unwanted physical contact.
(and as far as how they ended up in a room together, read the tweets you posted. They were collaborating, and had been working together online for some time, and had arranged to work together at GenCon. This was not GenCon that placed them together. I'm pretty sure that were the abuser a ciswoman, you guys wouldn't have said a peep, and the victim and everyone else involved would have felt the same, so I suspect you're inserting yourself for a reason that no one else brought up, and no one else felt was a factor.)
I think putting a woman in with a man is a lot more dangerous than putting a woman in with a woman, even a lesbian woman, yes. I'm less sure whether trans autogynephiles are more or less dangerous to women than are regular "cis' men, and going into that would probably be off topic. I certainly think the modern Left downplays the threat from trans to women, as it doesn't fit the Narrative, and this combines with the US corporate culture of rooming employees together to create a particular danger. (My spellchecker kept changing rooming to grooming, heh)
I noticed the victim's Twitter profile describes herself as bisexual. That is probably not a good idea since it is the kind of thing that can make guys like this think they might be in with a chance if they come on to her.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 12:01:00 PM
I never expected this site to become misandrist. Are y'all saying that only men are ever abusers, that this couldn't have happened if it were two ciswomen? Shame, you guys, men are not the only gender capable of abuse.
Or have you turned over a new leaf and want to speak out about protecting victims and ensuring consequences for abusers?
I mean, in the past we've seen unwanted physical contact by a dude in a the bar/restaurant of the hotel hosting a convention get forgiven with a simple teary "I messed up, I had too much to drink." Those folks end up on a list of publishers as "green" because, y'know, they are a-ok.
So, here, we also have a person who had too much to drink, and after the incident, the victim got a new room and the abuser is ... Well, pretty much cancelled. For a person making their living online, complete erasure from all social media is pretty much the end of a career.
If that's "not enough" then I'm looking forward to this new leaf you've turned around, where you'll be huge advocates for the women speaking out against unwanted physical contact.
(and as far as how they ended up in a room together, read the tweets you posted. They were collaborating, and had been working together online for some time, and had arranged to work together at GenCon. This was not GenCon that placed them together. I'm pretty sure that were the abuser a ciswoman, you guys wouldn't have said a peep, and the victim and everyone else involved would have felt the same, so I suspect you're inserting yourself for a reason that no one else brought up, and no one else felt was a factor.)
You should post this on the gencon forums or in their twitter thread. I'm sure you'll get more of what you are seeking that way than on here for those who have absolutely little tolerance for "Bad Touch Behavior" regardless of sex .
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 12:05:53 PM
Because working together REQUIRES you to share a room...
As for the rest of your drivel it's not relevant to the thread (except maybe the vague reference to a teary eyed guy but you would need to clarify who, where, when so we can talk about it), and what your mind reading powers tell you of me are even less relevant, here and anywhere.
Working together doesn't require it, they both were coming together for the event after working together in the past.
I've shared a room with three other men when I've gone to GenCon, I hadn't met them. If men are so rampantly abusive, and I'm sure you are aware of the fact that some men are attracted to other men, what is it about housing them with me that would have protected me from assault? Obviously this is a bit of a hyperbolic example, but it's just ...
It's just that this particular incident, you're criticizing GenCon for housing people together when they didn't have an issue with it, the abuser and victim weren't forcibly placed together out of the blue, they knew ahead of time and were in communication beforehand.
And when the incident happened, everything happened as expected. Let's save some outrage for the times where it isn't handled correctly.
As far as the "teary eyed guy" I can type "apologizes for sexual assault at gaming convention" and see at least four separate incidents that are STILL not the one I was suggesting, but it's such a common thing that ... Well, let's just say I wouldn't expect you guys to speak up for them. Heck, I even saw a brand new one I didn't know. (Weather Factory, the dude that makes the game Cultist Simulator had a few people speak out, which ... disappointing.)
But anyhow, I had several folks in mind, but the one that is most clear is the following, and since the apology is still available online, and at least Mr. Webb admitted to this much:
https://www.froggodgames.com/statement-by-bill-webb/#:~:text=Bill%20Webb%20here.,principals%20of%20Frog%20God%20Games.
While the details between multiple accounts don't entirely match up, the fact is that SOMETHING happened for which he apologized, then his company at least made sure to acknowledge the complaints, they've left the apology up all this time later, but otherwise... Everything is back to normal. They didn't face any other long term consequences.
And even despite my reputation amongst y'all for SJWness, I still buy Frog God Games books. I can accept that a CEO might be flawed, even a really flawed dude, but otherwise, at least they did what they did. So I'm not calling out for worse consequences from ya'll, I'm just saying "I really didn't think that this NEW incident would be this noteworthy."
Abuser does abuse, victim seeks remediation, gets a new room, abuser faces consequences, victim is given support by the community. So, good news at least.
Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 12, 2022, 12:26:57 PM
You should post this on the gencon forums or in their twitter thread. I'm sure you'll get more of what you are seeking that way than on here for those who have absolutely little tolerance for "Bad Touch Behavior" regardless of sex .
Nah, as far as I can tell, the gencon and twitter threads are focused on the victim getting her chance to speak out and the abuser facing consequences for what she's done.
Everything is happening as they should, as far as I can tell.
Quote from: S'mon on August 12, 2022, 12:22:59 PM
I noticed the victim's Twitter profile describes herself as bisexual. That is probably not a good idea since it is the kind of thing that can make guys like this think they might be in with a chance if they come on to her.
As far as that, or the mention about transwomen vs ciswomen.
nah, I really doubt that factors into it in the least. I've been groped by a gay man before, and pretty much shrugged it off because I have no past trauma that makes it any more painful than just taking an extra step away. Heck, I've been groped by women that I really did not want anything to do with. (including one that was a fair bit larger and stronger than my teenage self at the time)
This crap happens to you regardless of preferences or your gender or your attackers gender. And a lot of the time "I was drunk" is a BS excuse, because I'm pretty sure the girl in my case was just expecting me to be a "typical dude" and jump at the opportunity roll in the hay. (whereas I was focused on the fact she was totally sloshed, I knew her boyfriend, and my girlfriend was also at the same party.)
Being drunk just means that the stupid ideas that pop into their head aren't necessarily examined for being stupid, but drunk or not, that idea popped into their head.
That same level of stupid that makes you act on ill conceived plans doesn't really make you think "Oh, this person isn't attracted to me" it just ... removes the inhibition against acting on it entirely.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 12:31:55 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 12:05:53 PM
Because working together REQUIRES you to share a room...
As for the rest of your drivel it's not relevant to the thread (except maybe the vague reference to a teary eyed guy but you would need to clarify who, where, when so we can talk about it), and what your mind reading powers tell you of me are even less relevant, here and anywhere.
Working together doesn't require it, they both were coming together for the event after working together in the past.
I've shared a room with three other men when I've gone to GenCon, I hadn't met them. If men are so rampantly abusive, and I'm sure you are aware of the fact that some men are attracted to other men, what is it about housing them with me that would have protected me from assault? Obviously this is a bit of a hyperbolic example, but it's just ...
It's just that this particular incident, you're criticizing GenCon for housing people together when they didn't have an issue with it, the abuser and victim weren't forcibly placed together out of the blue, they knew ahead of time and were in communication beforehand.
And when the incident happened, everything happened as expected. Let's save some outrage for the times where it isn't handled correctly.
As far as the "teary eyed guy" I can type "apologizes for sexual assault at gaming convention" and see at least four separate incidents that are STILL not the one I was suggesting, but it's such a common thing that ... Well, let's just say I wouldn't expect you guys to speak up for them. Heck, I even saw a brand new one I didn't know. (Weather Factory, the dude that makes the game Cultist Simulator had a few people speak out, which ... disappointing.)
But anyhow, I had several folks in mind, but the one that is most clear is the following, and since the apology is still available online, and at least Mr. Webb admitted to this much:
https://www.froggodgames.com/statement-by-bill-webb/#:~:text=Bill%20Webb%20here.,principals%20of%20Frog%20God%20Games.
While the details between multiple accounts don't entirely match up, the fact is that SOMETHING happened for which he apologized, then his company at least made sure to acknowledge the complaints, they've left the apology up all this time later, but otherwise... Everything is back to normal. They didn't face any other long term consequences.
And even despite my reputation amongst y'all for SJWness, I still buy Frog God Games books. I can accept that a CEO might be flawed, even a really flawed dude, but otherwise, at least they did what they did. So I'm not calling out for worse consequences from ya'll, I'm just saying "I really didn't think that this NEW incident would be this noteworthy."
Abuser does abuse, victim seeks remediation, gets a new room, abuser faces consequences, victim is given support by the community. So, good news at least.
So lets see, you're equating this:
QuoteI want to start by taking ownership of my own bad actions. On the day in question, I acted unprofessionally towards a colleague, BJ Hensley. I was overly familiar with Ms. Hensley and acted in a gender dismissive fashion. To be specific, I put my arm around her shoulders and called her "sweetie." That behavior was and is not appropriate behavior towards a colleague and, unless one is very familiar with someone and has their consent to speak to them in that manner, that kind of conduct is never appropriate.
Unfortunately, that was not the end of it. While we were out for a cigarette, I offered her one by holding my cigarette pack out towards her so that she could take one. As was my habit, I had my room key in the sleeve of the cigarette pack so that I would not lose it.
I now can imagine how that must have looked. I had absolutely no intention of giving the impression that I was propositioning Ms. Hensley. In fact, my wife and kids were present at the con and my wife would have responded very poorly to additional guests in our hotel room. However, that does not excuse my mistake. I can see that my actions with the cigarette pack could be taken as a pass. I am deeply sorry for making BJ uncomfortable.
With making not-so-covert sexual propositions, being rejected and then "getting drunk", getting in her bed and putting his body over her trapping her there.
Am I getting it right?
Fuck off, those two are not the same and you know it or are even more of a bufoon than I thought.
98% of men are heterosexual, not much risk in placing several men together, as proven by your other false equivalence.
So, your mind reading powers are non-existent, your equivalent case isn't remotelly the same... You're either a liar or a bufoon. I'm inclined for the former.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 12:01:00 PM
I never expected this site to become misandrist. Are y'all saying that only men are ever abusers, that this couldn't have happened if it were two ciswomen? Shame, you guys, men are not the only gender capable of abuse.
Or have you turned over a new leaf and want to speak out about protecting victims and ensuring consequences for abusers?
I mean, in the past we've seen unwanted physical contact by a dude in a the bar/restaurant of the hotel hosting a convention get forgiven with a simple teary "I messed up, I had too much to drink." Those folks end up on a list of publishers as "green" because, y'know, they are a-ok.
So, here, we also have a person who had too much to drink, and after the incident, the victim got a new room and the abuser is ... Well, pretty much cancelled. For a person making their living online, complete erasure from all social media is pretty much the end of a career.
If that's "not enough" then I'm looking forward to this new leaf you've turned around, where you'll be huge advocates for the women speaking out against unwanted physical contact.
(and as far as how they ended up in a room together, read the tweets you posted. They were collaborating, and had been working together online for some time, and had arranged to work together at GenCon. This was not GenCon that placed them together. I'm pretty sure that were the abuser a ciswoman, you guys wouldn't have said a peep, and the victim and everyone else involved would have felt the same, so I suspect you're inserting yourself for a reason that no one else brought up, and no one else felt was a factor.)
It's great that you feel you've got a real gotcha on your hands here, however we aren't talking a person who propositioned another adult, or touched a woman's arm and made her feel unconformable. This guy attacked multiple women, according to one he grabbed her and wrestled her head around to try to kiss her. It's unambiguous sexual assault with at least three victims known thus far:
https://twitter.com/RekItRaven/status/1557384295194533889
https://twitter.com/little_red_dot/status/1557466678161727489
https://twitter.com/Superdillin/status/1557394343811551232
So just maybe there isn't a double-standard in play between "asked a woman out in an elevator isn't a big deal" and "trying to wrestle women into making out in a bar in front of horrified onlookers is bad".
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 12:31:55 PM
[
But anyhow, I had several folks in mind, but the one that is most clear is the following, and since the apology is still available online, and at least Mr. Webb admitted to this much:
https://www.froggodgames.com/statement-by-bill-webb/#:~:text=Bill%20Webb%20here.,principals%20of%20Frog%20God%20Games.
While the details between multiple accounts don't entirely match up, the fact is that SOMETHING happened for which he apologized, then his company at least made sure to acknowledge the complaints, they've left the apology up all this time later, but otherwise... Everything is back to normal. They didn't face any other long term consequences.
And even despite my reputation amongst y'all for SJWness, I still buy Frog God Games books. I can accept that a CEO might be flawed, even a really flawed dude, but otherwise, at least they did what they did. So I'm not calling out for worse consequences from ya'll, I'm just saying "I really didn't think that this NEW incident would be this noteworthy."
Abuser does abuse, victim seeks remediation, gets a new room, abuser faces consequences, victim is given support by the community. So, good news at least.
FGG was lambasted on Social Media for this incident. Bill Webb had to walk around conventions with another employee just to make sure incidents if they did occur had a witness beside He said/She Said. The company took a huge hit and it wasn't until both sides posted online that this was a matter they both wanted to put in the past and the blood hungry blue checkmarks went after their next target.
As for this event. Reopen this thread in 3months, 6months, and right before GenCon next year and not a damn thing will have been done.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 12:44:59 PM
With making not-so-covert sexual propositions, being rejected and then "getting drunk", getting in her bed and putting his body over her trapping her there.
Am I getting it right?
Fuck off, those two are not the same and you know it or are even more of a bufoon than I thought.
You did see how I said that the account given in the apology didn't match up with what witnesses claim to have happened, including the victim?
"Oops, how did my room key end up in that pack of cigarettes? I couldn't have possibly meant that, my wife is over there."
Do you really believe that the apology perfectly represented not just the truth, but more importantly, what the victim might have FELT was happening?
Or we can talk about the fact that it had happened BEFORE, and folks like Jessica Price had spoken out against it. (Which, I know, many of you don't feel that she's a reliable source, but from what it was said, this is something that folks had talked about in the past.)
Finally, the statement that Bill Webb and his company made doesn't match with other statements, pretty simply:
https://archive.ph/QcJPY
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 12:44:59 PM
98% of men are heterosexual, not much risk in placing several men together, as proven by your other false equivalence.
So, your mind reading powers are non-existent, your equivalent case isn't remotelly the same... You're either a liar or a bufoon. I'm inclined for the former.
Finally, as far as 99% of men are hetereosexual, I'd say an even larger number are not likely to commit sexual assault. Yet, sexual assault happens. It's a risk analysis thing. Hell, some men who are "heterosexual" commit sexual assault on other men.
So, how do we limit it? Perhaps we don't place people together in a room unless they agree to it beforehand. In this case, it most likely wouldn't have protected the victim, the two of them had agreed to it ahead of time.
What is the real solution? I just don't think that the specifics you guys have brought up are the right one.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 12:59:35 PM
You did see how I said that the account given in the apology didn't match up with what witnesses claim to have happened, including the victim?
"Oops, how did my room key end up in that pack of cigarettes? I couldn't have possibly meant that, my wife is over there."
Do you really believe that the apology perfectly represented not just the truth, but more importantly, what the victim might have FELT was happening?
Or we can talk about the fact that it had happened BEFORE, and folks like Jessica Price had spoken out against it. (Which, I know, many of you don't feel that
Unless you are smoker you wouldn't understand how you keep everything in the pack for ease of travel. I've left ID's, credit cards, and lighter in the pack when traveling about. Keep everything together.
I believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle of all 3 stories and I'm adult enough to know that since all 3 parties consider it a closed matter I accept the outcome.
Quote from: Valatar on August 12, 2022, 12:51:29 PM
It's great that you feel you've got a real gotcha on your hands here, however we aren't talking a person who propositioned another adult, or touched a woman's arm and made her feel unconformable. This guy attacked multiple women, according to one he grabbed her and wrestled her head around to try to kiss her. It's unambiguous sexual assault with at least three victims known thus far:
https://twitter.com/RekItRaven/status/1557384295194533889
https://twitter.com/little_red_dot/status/1557466678161727489
https://twitter.com/Superdillin/status/1557394343811551232
So just maybe there isn't a double-standard in play between "asked a woman out in an elevator isn't a big deal" and "trying to wrestle women into making out in a bar in front of horrified onlookers is bad".
I don't think I have a real gotcha. I appreciate you finding these threads for me, I haven't started to do any sort of digging, but you've saved me a little bit of time in the search.
I am not making apologies for this abuser, what was done isn't up for debate. It happened, it was wrong, and I expect there to be longer term consequences. As someone said, "Let's check back in three months, six months, and a year."
Yep yep yep, most definitely.
Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 12, 2022, 12:58:55 PM
FGG was lambasted on Social Media for this incident. Bill Webb had to walk around conventions with another employee just to make sure incidents if they did occur had a witness beside He said/She Said. The company took a huge hit and it wasn't until both sides posted online that this was a matter they both wanted to put in the past and the blood hungry blue checkmarks went after their next target.
As for this event. Reopen this thread in 3months, 6months, and right before GenCon next year and not a damn thing will have been done.
I agree totally. Let's check back, we will see if there's any outcome. But I'm willing to bet some amount of imaginary currency that more will happen in this case than did to FGG.
The story seems to have been that Mr. Webb had a history of drinking too much at conventions, and after several reported incidents, that one happened that made him apologize. He took a hit, but I don't think that FGG really did. (And I want to make it clear, I've chatted with Mr. Webb, and he's a congenial dude, when he talks about his games it makes you wish you were at the table where it all happened. Alcohol makes some people into idiots, and I hope he's got a better grip on things now.)
But I will say, for it being "he said, she said." Ms. Hensley wasn't the one who brought the incident to light. It was a third party who witnessed it... So it's beyond "He said, she said." It was "He said, she said, and the people at the bar who decided to intervene." And in a lot of cases, the apology of a drunken incident is going to have less accurate details than the multiple bystanders who felt it was an issue enough to step in and stop it.
Do I expect them to suffer long term for it? Nah, I'm pretty sure Mr. Webb felt the shame, and I imagine it was very unpleasant for him, but the company navigated the waters through that incident (and managed to avoid any damage from past events) and ... That's about it. Done is done.
And as far as facing long term consequences from the "blue checkmark mob." Steve Jackson Games is listed on the "red red red" list in the other thread, and they were pressured to cut ties with FGG and they declined to do so. In fact, a lot of the anti-woke folks were cheering for SJG for standing up for FGG. So obviously, things were more complicated than the simple "woke/anti-woke" axis that often gets used to decide who to cheer for.
Finally, I think it's important to note that Frog God Games made a point to approach BJ Hensley and the statement was made WITH her. This isn't a case where Mr. Webb apologized and a side was picked... They did make a point to talk to the victim. So, I'm pretty sure that may be part of the reason it went smoothly as it had.
https://www.froggodgames.com/joint-statement-of-bj-hensley-and-frog-god-games/
Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 12, 2022, 01:12:57 PM
Unless you are smoker you wouldn't understand how you keep everything in the pack for ease of travel. I've left ID's, credit cards, and lighter in the pack when traveling about. Keep everything together.
I believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle of all 3 stories and I'm adult enough to know that since all 3 parties consider it a closed matter I accept the outcome.
You're right, everyone did come to a mutually agreeable end. And like I said, I still buy FGG stuff. So, obviously it's not something I'm advocating for differently. I just feel that we may see a similar outcome here.
Daisy did say she is seeking treatment before she just outright deleted her Twitter. Dot may find that outcome agreeable. Dot had no problems with GenCon. So I'm hoping everything gets squared up and we'll see a similar end. Y'know?
Oh and as far as the cigarette thing: My wife was a smoker, I know well enough how that goes.
But I also am a dude, as I think that you are: You know well enough that you make pains to avoid the appearance of handing a room key to a woman, especially as a married man, as he pointed out.
A man who has a career that involves spending time in hotel bars would not be a stranger to the idea that this is ... A suspicious thing. Heh. If it wasn't something he was aware of before, he knows now.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 01:13:23 PM
Finally, I think it's important to note that Frog God Games made a point to approach BJ Hensley and the statement was made WITH her. This isn't a case where Mr. Webb apologized and a side was picked... They did make a point to talk to the victim. So, I'm pretty sure that may be part of the reason it went smoothly as it had.
https://www.froggodgames.com/joint-statement-of-bj-hensley-and-frog-god-games/
Which is a point i made in my original post that all 3 parties (Bill, BJ, and FGG) agreed to put the issue to rest on her social media and FGG's website.
Who is suggesting otherwise? You are the one who brought up FGG as some sort of comparisson piece to the current GenCon issue but it could not be more different as there was actual physical internaction and the victim reporting on the event and not some 3rd party behind the scenes.
Also, since your wife is a smoker you understand how it "works". Shit happens, someone saw something, and without ever asking one side or the other it became an internet kefluffle.
Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 12, 2022, 01:30:05 PM
Which is a point i made in my original post that all 3 parties (Bill, BJ, and FGG) agreed to put the issue to rest on her social media and FGG's website.
Who is suggesting otherwise? You are the one who brought up FGG as some sort of comparisson piece to the current GenCon issue but it could not be more different as there was actual physical internaction and the victim reporting on the event and not some 3rd party behind the scenes.
In Frog God's case, the event took years to come to a resolution. If you look at the statement I posted, you'll see that they said "over the last two years."
In this case, the event just happened. The victim made a statement and is happy with her treatment by everyone other than the abuser. (She made a point to thank the coordinators that helped her in her post.)
The abuser posted that she screwed up, will seek therapy, and then removed her social media.
I am suggesting that, just as we did for Frog God Games, we permit the situation to come to a conclusion without making some larger statement about the hobby as a whole, or sexuality, or gender identity. (because, as we can easily see, it doesn't take a specific gender identity to be an abuser.)
We also see from another thread that perhaps Daisy has a history of issues. She needs treatment above and beyond just an apology being given. So, we'll see if that happens.
Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 12, 2022, 01:30:05 PM
Also, since your wife is a smoker you understand how it "works". Shit happens, someone saw something, and without ever asking one side or the other it became an internet kefluffle.
I dunno, "how it works" involved a person regretting what they had done, and then having to apologize for it specifically. Like I said, if he didn't know that it might have been an issue before, he certainly does now.
Especially after putting his arms around a woman that didn't want it.
And ... like I also said, these are just the things he said happened. If he had to apologize for it, he regrets having done it.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 01:34:43 PM
Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 12, 2022, 01:30:05 PM
Which is a point i made in my original post that all 3 parties (Bill, BJ, and FGG) agreed to put the issue to rest on her social media and FGG's website.
Who is suggesting otherwise? You are the one who brought up FGG as some sort of comparisson piece to the current GenCon issue but it could not be more different as there was actual physical internaction and the victim reporting on the event and not some 3rd party behind the scenes.
In Frog God's case, the event took years to come to a resolution. If you look at the statement I posted, you'll see that they said "over the last two years."
In this case, the event just happened. The victim made a statement and is happy with her treatment by everyone other than the abuser.
The abuser posted that she screwed up, will seek therapy, and then removed her social media.
I am suggesting that, just as we did for Frog God Games, we permit the situation to come to a conclusion without making some larger statement about the hobby as a whole, or sexuality, or gender identity. (because, as we can easily see, it doesn't take a specific gender identity to be an abuser.)
We also see from another thread that perhaps Daisy has a history of issues. She needs treatment above and beyond just an apology being given. So, we'll see if that happens.
You're so busy running cover for the would be rapist BECAUSE he claims to be a woman, ergo HE is in your ideological/political/cult side. You wouldn't do the same for someone not on that case.
But the issue here is easy: GenCon is putting men in the same room as women if the men claim to be women. We've seen it in prison, schools, etc abusers will choose to camouflage themselves for easy access to their victims. And you, as well as all the left and GenCon could be considered enablers by some.
There's an easy fix, do not mix the two sexes unless by direct request by the participants. This way anything that happens is not your fault.
Then, if anything happens you (as the con higher up) call the police, expell the suspect and if found guilty bann the culprit.
Now go on, keep running cover for past, present and future abusers you mysogginistic pig.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 01:45:06 PM
You're so busy running cover for the would be rapist BECAUSE he claims to be a woman, ergo HE is in your ideological/political/cult side. You wouldn't do the same for someone not on that case.
But the issue here is easy: GenCon is putting men in the same room as women if the men claim to be women. We've seen it in prison, schools, etc abusers will choose to camouflage themselves for easy access to their victims. And you, as well as all the left and GenCon could be considered enablers by some.
There's an easy fix, do not mix the two sexes unless by direct request by the participants. This way anything that happens is not your fault.
Then, if anything happens you (as the con higher up) call the police, expell the suspect and if found guilty bann the culprit.
Now go on, keep running cover for past, present and future abusers you mysogginistic pig.
What cover? I call the victim a victim, I call the abuser the abuser.
And misogynistic? Are you the one claiming that only men can be abusers? Is that misogynistic to claim that women can be abusers?
Or is it misogynistic to accept a woman's consent to share a room with who they want, and also accept that when there's an incident that makes them want to get another room, to expect that it all gets handled in a way that the victim says "thank you" to the staff?
Nah, it's not cover.
In this case, an abuser did an abuse and got a consequence.
I could share a room with a woman, sleep in a bed in the same room, and nothing would happen. It's not like all men are serial rapists, good sir.
An abuser could abuse anyone, regardless of gender. This is an abuser, that's the real issue. In fact, it was an abuser that has abused in the past, and she needed to have gotten help in the past, but is getting help now, hopefully.
EDIT: I'm gonna be less snarky, but it's difficult when you snark right at me in the first place.
Honestly, I don't know if maybe I do judge a trans like 'Daisy' more harshly than I judge a normal guy like Bill Webb. It's possible, as a reaction to all the media lies about them, the placing of trans claim-to-be-woman sex offenders in women's prisons where they rape the women. I don't think many people here were defending Bill Webb's behaviour, or saw him as anything other than a harrasser. And Hensley was an innocent victim both of Webb and of the SJW harridans who tried to make her their plaything, she behaved with great dignity throughout. I guess I have a feeling that the trans putting on women's clothing, saying "trust me, I'm one of you!" and then sexually assaulting women, just feels particularly contemptible. It does feel worse than the drunk 'cis' guy harrassing women (and Daisy's assaults sound rather more serious, too). But maybe that is more emotion than logic. And certainly women need to be protected from the Bill Webb types as much as they need to be protected from the Daisy types. But women already know to guard against drunken lecherous dudes in Hawaiian shirts. They are being gaslighted that they do *not* need to guard against Daisy types.
OK, I'll say it.
It's not about the abuser in this case being "man" or "woman", IMO, it's more about them being "trans", because if you start with the assumption that men and women can act the very same way and do the very same things regardless of gender, then the only point in being "trans" is a sexual one. Wanting to be "treated like a woman" has only a sexual context, if we espouse the belief that all genders should be treated the same way in every other aspect. In that respect, being "trans" is demanding that your sexual proclivities be entertained by the public at large.
So the question I think, and the feeling about GenCon "putting men and women in the same room", is more about GenCon deciding to have people who are already making public sexual demands of others (i.e. demanding to be called "woman") bunking together with those that would rather not be a part of their sexual proclivities.
Quote from: Zalman on August 12, 2022, 02:27:08 PM
It's not about the abuser in this case being "man" or "woman", IMO, it's more about them being "trans", because if you start with the assumption that men and women can act the
Are you weighing in because it's an assault and those are serious and we should do everything we can to make sure that people feel safe and comfortable in our shared space?
Because, if you're interested in talking about making sure our hobby is a safe space for women to participate that's great, but if it's just to speak out against trans folk... Well, I am sure we don't have to pretend that it is otherwise. I'd happily scroll past that thread because I understand folks are going to have the opinions they're going to have.
But there's so many of these assaults that happen where everyone involved is cisgender, and the folks claiming that the "blue check mob" are providing cover for the abuser in this situation act in EXACTLY the same fashion that they're acting now.
Everyone is providing support for the victim and calling out the attacker. Just as they've done before, and they will do next time.
It's this forum that's acting differently. I don't tend to see a post about things like any number of past incidents where some loutish dude gets drunk and gropes a woman in an elevator or a bar, or tries to pull a woman into their hotel room, or have a room that they call "the Cosby Room", or ... Well, you get the picture. It happens a lot. (I mentioned the incident about PaizoCon 2017 only because it was one of the few where both sides did agree to at least some of the facts, and did come to a conclusion, there's plenty where it gets just swept under the rug.)
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 11:18:56 AM
Quote from: S'mon on August 12, 2022, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 06:44:32 AM
How did GenCon enable the alleged events? Serious question.
The enabling was by whoever put the trans in with the real woman, and whoever pressured or fooled the real woman into thinking this was safe and right. I doubt that Gencon did anything.
Well, since both were working for GenCon, guess who put them together? GenCon! Thus, by doing so SOME might say (because my lawyer tells me I must not assert anything) they enabled the situation. Furthermore, when she told some higher up they didn't call the police, expell the culprit, changed room arrangements or anything. The woman was forced to sleep in a conference room (IIRC) away from her would be rapist.
Given all of that some people MIGHT be of the OPINION that it's at least partly GenCon's fault.
Thanks for the explanation. That was totally my miss. When I read the original note on archive, the initial part about being assigned a room by GenCon was obscured by an ad I could not dismiss. It appears GenCon would hold some culpability in this case.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:44:32 PM
I don't tend to see a post about things like any number of past incidents where some loutish dude gets drunk and gropes a woman in an elevator or a bar
You mean at GenCon? This
is a gaming forum. As they relate to gaming, I've certainly seen such posts.
Also, there's a huge difference between getting groped in an elevator, and getting assaulted
in your own hotel room. This woman at GenCon had no safe place to retreat to and lock the door.
Your posts are completely disingenuous and full of non-sequiturs.
But yes, I am definitely the one being bold enough to say that a person who demands that the unconsenting public engage with their sexuality is inherently higher risk. That applies to trans folks at GenCon just as much as it would apply to someone who demanded that everyone call him "Master" because he likes that sort of thing in the bedroom.
Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 02:46:08 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 11:18:56 AM
Quote from: S'mon on August 12, 2022, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 06:44:32 AM
How did GenCon enable the alleged events? Serious question.
The enabling was by whoever put the trans in with the real woman, and whoever pressured or fooled the real woman into thinking this was safe and right. I doubt that Gencon did anything.
Well, since both were working for GenCon, guess who put them together? GenCon! Thus, by doing so SOME might say (because my lawyer tells me I must not assert anything) they enabled the situation. Furthermore, when she told some higher up they didn't call the police, expell the culprit, changed room arrangements or anything. The woman was forced to sleep in a conference room (IIRC) away from her would be rapist.
Given all of that some people MIGHT be of the OPINION that it's at least partly GenCon's fault.
Thanks for the explanation. That was totally my miss. When I read the original note on archive, the initial part about being assigned a room by GenCon was obscured by an ad I could not dismiss. It appears GenCon would hold some culpability in this case.
Wait, I missed that post originally. That's not correct, go back and read Dot's message.
Quote
For GenCon 2022 I was assigned a room with Daisy also known as /AWiseArtist online. This room assignment was provided as part of the exchange for working with the GenCon Stream Team. Daisy and I have worked together in many capacities and for many years in the TTRPG professional setting. As part of that, we have served on the GenCon Stream Team for four years together, and she has mentored me professionally in many ways. She has always been nothing but supportive and respectful... until this year's GenCon.
There's also text beyond that where she talks about them communicating prior to GenCon. She did not show up at the convention to be surprised by this situation, she agreed to it.
You'll have to ask her for more details about whether she had any concerns about the arrangement, but this was not a situation where GenCon put two strangers together. Or where they provided pressure for something that she expressed any concern about. Given her later "thank you" to the GenCon team for helping her, I expect that it is not the case.
As far as this claim:
Quote
Furthermore, when she told some higher up they didn't call the police, expell the culprit, changed room arrangements or anything. The woman was forced to sleep in a conference room (IIRC) away from her would be rapist.
This is at odds with what Dot actually said:
Quote
I slept a few hours in the lobby of the Westin until I could contact the Steam Team Lead and ask him to let me in the streaming room early so I could sleep on the couch before my 9:30am shift on Sunday. During this time I expressed to the Team Lead what happened in detail and my uncomfortably. In response, he offered me his room to sleep in on Sunday so that I was safe. I took him up on this offer
She later added
Quote
I want to give a shout-out to my Stream Team lead for stepping up to help me out and feel safe. They even went as far as to let me off my Sunday shift early, so Daisy and I didn't have to share a workspace after what happened on Saturday night. Please know that GenCon is currently accepting ANY and ALL incident reports from the week. You can submit those to policyteam@gencon.com. I hope these complaints prompt GenCon to take the actions necessary to bring some closure to those hurt.
So, I would say that this isn't a case where she is unhappy with GenCon.
Quote from: Zalman on August 12, 2022, 02:50:29 PM
You mean at GenCon? This is a gaming forum. As they relate to gaming, I've certainly seen such posts.
Also, there's a huge difference between getting groped in an elevator, and getting assaulted in your own hotel room. This woman at GenCon had no safe place to retreat to and lock the door.
Your posts are completely disingenuous and full of non-sequiturs.
But yes, I am definitely the one being bold enough to say that a person who demands that the unconsenting public engage with their sexuality are inherently higher risk.
I'm not being "disingenuous" and my posts are not non-sequiturs.
I'm saying I'd be glad for you to search through this forum's posts and show me this forum's IMMENSE CONCERN for the safety of women. I would imagine since you and I both agree that this is a problem in past conventions that either I will see a TON of posts about these past incidents.
Or this particular incident is unusual because there is a transwoman as the attacker.
But, perhaps it's not me that is being disingenuous.
Perhaps many only show concern about women in situations like this, where it involves criticism of a transwoman, then perhaps it's better to just leave women out of it. Just make a thread about what you're actually concerned about.
Women tend to make bad props, you know, with being human and all and having their own agenda.
Which... Let's see Dot talk about how she feels about the fact that Daisy was trans. Because I've yet to see her even mention it. Not a single mention.
Yet, she was perfectly happy to bring up what had happened.
So... Might as well argue the points you actually make.
Else, the next time I see an allegation towards a man at a gaming convention, I really look forward to your concern and efforts to help reduce such things in the future.
But hey, maybe y'all are really concerned about making sure our conventions are safe for women. I'll look forward to you providing me a list of some past threads on this forum where folks argue passionately about the topic.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
Which... Let's see Dot talk about how she feels about the fact that Daisy was trans.
It's irrelevant how Dot
feels. Perfect example of a non-sequitur.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
the next time I see an allegation towards a man at a gaming convention, I really look forward to your concern and efforts to help reduce such things in the future.
But hey, maybe y'all are really concerned about making sure our conventions are safe for women. I'll look forward to you providing me a list of some past threads on this forum where folks argue passionately about the topic.
My own concern is about everyone's safety at gaming conventions, regardless of the gender of the victim or the attacker.
You're welcome to stalk me on this forum for those events (or search for those already here). Have at it!
Unless I'm misremembering significantly, the men accused of impropriety in past gatherings were not accused of pinning women down in beds nor of grabbing their heads and twisting them around to try to kiss them on the mouth while they struggled. One was accused of asking a woman out in an elevator, which is neither illegal nor unethical in any way, one was accused of trying to send secret messages of a desire for sex to a woman via keys in cigarette boxes, which could be illegal if consummated in adultery, depending on the state, but was not. And a lot of "so and so made me uncomfortable".
It is not rocket science to work out why men being dragged for scummy yet legal behavior is not being given a high priority versus this man who broke several laws in forcefully overpowering women to try to make them kiss or otherwise sexually engage with him. You may attempt to claim that both of these things are apples, but one is clearly an orange.
Quote from: Valatar on August 12, 2022, 03:13:07 PM
Unless I'm misremembering significantly, the men accused of impropriety in past gatherings were not accused of pinning women down in beds nor of grabbing their heads and twisting them around to try to kiss them on the mouth while they struggled. One was accused of asking a woman out in an elevator, which is neither illegal nor unethical in any way, one was accused of trying to send secret messages of a desire for sex to a woman via keys in cigarette boxes, which could be illegal if consummated in adultery, depending on the state, but was not. And a lot of "so and so made me uncomfortable".
It is not rocket science to work out why men being dragged for scummy yet legal behavior is not being given a high priority versus this man who broke several laws in forcefully overpowering women to try to make them kiss or otherwise sexually engage with him. You may attempt to claim that both of these things are apples, but one is clearly an orange.
One man tried to drag a woman into his hotel room after she declined an offer to go into his room for a cup of coffee. She physically resisted and was only able to break free after another man witnessed it and asked him what was going on.
But, you know, that dude didn't get cancelled.
I mean, I see a lot of these threads in other forums when they happen, I just don't think I see them in THIS forum when they happen.
Are y'all just SUDDENLY becoming interested in making sure our conventions are a safe environment for women? Because, I've really seen a lot of criticism for conventions going woke when they start writing up codes of conduct talking about making shared spaces safe.
If that's the case, then good on y'all, I'm looking forward to seeing you calling for consequences for the next dude that pulls a woman in for a kiss that she wants, or dragging them into their hotel room, or drugging them or ...
I mean, Blizzard is being investigated for these things. Let's check to see what you guys had to say about the allegations that came out about Blizzard having a "Cosby Room" and trying to get women drunk to lower their inhibitions so they could drag them to that room.
Quote from: Zalman on August 12, 2022, 03:10:23 PM
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
Which... Let's see Dot talk about how she feels about the fact that Daisy was trans.
It's irrelevant how Dot feels. Perfect example of a non-sequitur.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
the next time I see an allegation towards a man at a gaming convention, I really look forward to your concern and efforts to help reduce such things in the future.
But hey, maybe y'all are really concerned about making sure our conventions are safe for women. I'll look forward to you providing me a list of some past threads on this forum where folks argue passionately about the topic.
My own concern is about everyone's safety at gaming conventions, regardless of the gender of the victim or the attacker.
You're welcome to stalk me on this forum for those events (or search for those already here). Have at it!
Perhaps I use a different definition of non-sequiter than you do.
From what I understand, it's an irrelevent comment that doesn't pertain to the conversation at hand. So, Dot, who is the victim, had been assaulted.
We're talking about her treatment and how she feels afterwards, and what we can do to ensure that events are safer in the future for her.
She did not feel unsafe because of the gender identity of her attacker, and in fact, never mentioned it or really thinks it had anything to do with what happened.
So, in my opinion, it warranted mentioning.
So... What do you feel about Blizzcon? I mean, this is all coming out in an investigation. Were you REALLY INTO that thread, talking about how horrific the reports were that came out about what happened at past Blizzcons, where very serious things happened?
I mean, you are seriously concerned about a woman being pinned down in a bed, so I'm sure that the Blizzard investigation has to have you furious.
Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 06:44:32 AM
How did GenCon enable the alleged events? Serious question.
Basic answer is because they push this fake LGBT agenda and enforce it. They attract the worst offenders and eventually the above sort of incident happens. Meanwhile they harass and ban actual victims of these creeps. Though that was not the case here. Least so far as have seen.
Make of it what you will but Gencon and WOTC set the stage and laid out the table for this to happen. And this is just one of several incidents in the last few years. Gencon has become an increasingly unsafe venue.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
the next time I see an allegation towards a man at a gaming convention, I really look forward to your concern and efforts to help reduce such things in the future.
Funny, I thought that was exactly the concern expresed in this thread, that a man tried to force himself on a woman. And the steps we consider GenCon should take to avoid this type of thing from happening at least among it's employees.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 04:00:00 PM
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
the next time I see an allegation towards a man at a gaming convention, I really look forward to your concern and efforts to help reduce such things in the future.
Funny, I thought that was exactly the concern expresed in this thread, that a man tried to force himself on a woman. And the steps we consider GenCon should take to avoid this type of thing from happening at least among it's employees.
So this will prevent future assaults that happen outside of bedrooms? By cismen?
Magic! I didn't realize that there was such power in transwomen, that their presence in the bedroom of a ciswoman creates all of these negative ripples throughout society that it causes cismen to act abhorently.
I am obviously ill suited to a world where such things are possible. I'll stick to the observable universe, and y'all can deal with this magical one with weird sympathetical magical effects.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 04:02:57 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 04:00:00 PM
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
the next time I see an allegation towards a man at a gaming convention, I really look forward to your concern and efforts to help reduce such things in the future.
Funny, I thought that was exactly the concern expresed in this thread, that a man tried to force himself on a woman. And the steps we consider GenCon should take to avoid this type of thing from happening at least among it's employees.
So this will prevent future assaults that happen outside of bedrooms? By cismen?
Magic! I didn't realize that there was such power in transwomen, that their presence in the bedroom of a ciswoman creates all of these negative ripples throughout society that it causes cismen to act abhorently.
I am obviously ill suited to a world where such things are possible. I'll stick to the observable universe, and y'all can deal with this magical one with weird sympathetical magical effects.
Can you point EXACTLY where do I claim such thing?
No, you can't, because you're a lying, coward, disingenuous twat trying to derail the thread.
This is about GenCon putting their women employees in the same room as men employees (them not being a couple that is). And, since those men claim to be women, you're happy to attribute their crimes to women and to keep white knighting for them disregarding the danger women are put in by your cult.
Seeing you won't argue in good faith (this not being your first disingenuous twattery) I'm ignoring you going forward, good luck getting yourself banned for posting off topic shit.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 04:22:33 PM
Can you point EXACTLY where do I claim such thing?
No, you can't, because you're a lying, coward, disingenuous twat trying to derail the thread.
This is about GenCon putting their women employees in the same room as men employees (them not being a couple that is). And, since those men claim to be women, you're happy to attribute their crimes to women and to keep white knighting for them disregarding the danger women are put in by your cult.
Seeing you won't argue in good faith (this not being your first disingenuous twattery) I'm ignoring you going forward, good luck getting yourself banned for posting off topic shit.
In a conversation about an assault, I bring up assault by cismen on women in shared spaces. Your reply to THAT discussion is "That's what we're discussing" and return to banning trans and cis women from sharing rooms. My comment was that I fail to see how that would solve the issue that had been currently discussed, because you didn't mean it as an actual solution. You were just being "funny."
So, you're the one who made a claim that somehow it would prevent the things I was talking about. You, not me, made this weird leap.
So, I guess you are being disingenuous. Because, I sarcastically replied to your inserted sarcastic quip.
Like a lot of folks, accuse the other side of what you're doing. I'm not saying I wasn't being sarcastic, but I was replying with like for like. (And you're right, it's not my first time doing it, as I said in a previous post, I had to edit it out. It's difficult to not be snarky to someone levelling snark at you. I can do better, but I'm quite sure you're not so fragile as to melt like a snowflake beneath a bit of snark pointed back at you.)
...and as far as off topic goes, I'm talking ABOUT the topic. I mentioned how past sexual assaults have been discussed and how I find it unusual that this one is getting extra and different attention. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm being dishonest or insincere. I'm pretty sure I'm safe from a ban for criticizing folks while remaining on topic, RPG Pundit has interacted with me in the past. My views haven't warranted any action yet, and I've been here almost a year doing it. If he finds fault with it, I'll certainly accept that. But this is on topic as far as I am concerned.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:52:14 PM
Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 02:46:08 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 11:18:56 AM
Quote from: S'mon on August 12, 2022, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 06:44:32 AM
How did GenCon enable the alleged events? Serious question.
The enabling was by whoever put the trans in with the real woman, and whoever pressured or fooled the real woman into thinking this was safe and right. I doubt that Gencon did anything.
Well, since both were working for GenCon, guess who put them together? GenCon! Thus, by doing so SOME might say (because my lawyer tells me I must not assert anything) they enabled the situation. Furthermore, when she told some higher up they didn't call the police, expell the culprit, changed room arrangements or anything. The woman was forced to sleep in a conference room (IIRC) away from her would be rapist.
Given all of that some people MIGHT be of the OPINION that it's at least partly GenCon's fault.
Thanks for the explanation. That was totally my miss. When I read the original note on archive, the initial part about being assigned a room by GenCon was obscured by an ad I could not dismiss. It appears GenCon would hold some culpability in this case.
Wait, I missed that post originally. That's not correct, go back and read Dot's message.
I did, twice. I know what I said and I understand tort law. But I am not debating it with you for two reasons.
First, you are not here in good faith so it is a waste of time. You dismiss an entire forum and community of people who are sons and fathers to women they would put their life on the line for...all in the name of gender identity and politics. You are a pathetic troll whose life is so empty you are left with being a canker around here.
Second, you're already walking the green mile. Pundit specifically said this was not a thread to discuss sexual assault hypocrisy and you had done so several times. I generally find him a man of his word so I'm not sure you'll be around. Regardless, reason one is enough.
Greetings!
Wow. Some freak man wearing a dress and a wig chooses to try and rape a woman in the same hotel room at GEN CON.
Yeah, let the fucker burn.
What is there to debate? The jackass, per S'mon's twitter quote, is a bunch of sniveling with a claim to seek some kind of professional help or therapy.
I think it is interesting that whenever some kind of sexual incident occurs--we always see these jackasses proclaim their intent to get "Professional help". That's just a fucking smokescreen and attempt at damage control, and avoiding the fiery wrath that is coming for them.
This is yet another example though of how stupid GEN CON is. They are a woketard company. I hope they go broke.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 03:37:28 PM
One man tried to drag a woman into his hotel room after she declined an offer to go into his room for a cup of coffee. She physically resisted and was only able to break free after another man witnessed it and asked him what was going on.
But, you know, that dude didn't get cancelled.
Canceled nothing, someone trying to drag women into their room deserves to be tazed by the cops and dragged down a flight of stairs on the way to the car, feet-first. Which is exactly what this person deserves too, but has no indication of actually happening to him. We'll see how it pans out, but none of the accounts mention the victims looking to any sort of law enforcement for a resolution. I expect their peers would turn on them in a jiffy if they got a poor transwoman with substance abuse issues arrested for a little thing like being on the very rapey end of the sex pest spectrum.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 04:02:57 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 04:00:00 PM
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
the next time I see an allegation towards a man at a gaming convention, I really look forward to your concern and efforts to help reduce such things in the future.
Funny, I thought that was exactly the concern expresed in this thread, that a man tried to force himself on a woman. And the steps we consider GenCon should take to avoid this type of thing from happening at least among it's employees.
So this will prevent future assaults that happen outside of bedrooms? By cismen?
Magic! I didn't realize that there was such power in transwomen, that their presence in the bedroom of a ciswoman creates all of these negative ripples throughout society that it causes cismen to act abhorently.
I am obviously ill suited to a world where such things are possible. I'll stick to the observable universe, and y'all can deal with this magical one with weird sympathetical magical effects.
Hoshisabi, is GenCon paying you to troll this thread? Because you are being an asshat.
Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 05:11:20 PM
I did, twice. I know what I said and I understand tort law. But I am not debating it with you for two reasons.
First, you are not here in good faith so it is a waste of time. You dismiss an entire forum and community of people who are sons and fathers to women they would put their life on the line for...all in the name of gender identity and politics. You are a pathetic troll whose life is so empty you are left with being a canker around here.
It is funny that you said you read it, but you made claims that were not made by Dot. I'm going to lightly touch on this.
You said, specifically:
Quote
changed room arrangements or anything.
That is at odds with what Dot said had happened, when she specifically said that they gave her a different room to sleep in, once they were made aware, they fixed it.
Now, as far as their culpability, you're right, we cannot discuss that as I am not a lawyer, I can't tell you.
But I will tell you, for claiming that I am a troll and dismissing your claims, I am not. I would dismiss your claims by walking away. If I was trolling, I would be making a bigger attempt to be funny, and I certainly wouldn't be editing my knee-jerk snarky responses out. Trolls are SPECIFICALLY out for the snark.
As for sincerity, yes, I do believe that trans women are not statistically more likely than others to be attackers, but it's kind of irrelevant at this point. I could give a number of stats and try and make that argument, but I haven't and won't try. (And if it seems like I have, I apologize. I know better, it's not going to convince anyone so... I'll try and avoid it.)
I am also not claiming that folks here wouldn't defend a woman who was attacked. So, I'd ask you to extend me that courtesy. I've made it a point to say several times that Dot was attacked, Daisy was the attacker, that Daisy needs to apologize, seek treatment for substance abuse, and make amends to her victims... Somehow.
Dot and the other victims know best what outcome they want, and just as we can accept BJ Hensley and Frog God coming to an agreement privately, I personally can accept that perhaps Dot and others will come to some agreement with Gencon and Daisy. Given that Dot thanked GenCon for how they handled the situation, I suspect she's pleased with at least THAT part of the outcome. It'll remain to see what happens to Daisy. (and as you saw, I agreed with another poster, lets check back in a number of months and see if it gets quietly forgotten, just as some past cis-male abusers have ducked out for a few months and then returned as if nothing had ever happened.)
But, it's only been days. We will need to wait and see.
(though, as an aside, there's this "broken step" analogy. Even when a community is aware of a person who is an issue, and even when they inform newcomers about it, it's like a broken step in a staircase into the dark basement. By not just taking care of the problem, it's just making a future problem an inevitability. So it's not just about the victims having amends made to them, it's also about protecting the community from known attackers.)
And I did make a point to say that if this is such a hot topic for the community, I'll be looking for folks to speak up when it happens again in the more statistically likely situations where its a cismale as the attacker. Sincerely, if this community makes a point to make sure that attackers face consequences, then that's only a good thing.
I do know I am responsible for my own community and making sure that it's safe for everyone. I know it's a difficult position. I hate that part of the role because no matter what, you're being called into a bad situation and it sucks. So I actually have a huge amount of sympathy for those individuals who make mistakes in this. I know I've made mistakes when trying to deal with it. (one where my co-chair and I disagreed about the severity of a physical threat, and I trust his judgement, so we went with his call on that... it's possible for two well-meaning people to disagree, and obviously it's possible for a person to accept that another person's viewpoint might have more merit in the end.)
So I am here to say, if this is a legit possibility that a number of folks will actually be speaking up about the safety of women in shared spaces in our community, then excellent. With all sincerity, that is the best outcome I could hope for. But if this is just a case for folks to preach to their own choirs about their opinions about trans women, perhaps leave Dot out of it, because I am sure that she isn't interested in being the poster child for that cause.
Quote
Second, you're already walking the green mile. Pundit specifically said this was not a thread to discuss sexual assault hypocrisy and you had done so several times. I generally find him a man of his word so I'm not sure you'll be around. Regardless, reason one is enough.
I am not "walking the green mile" and have stayed in the bounds of the topic as stated by man himself:
Quote
Only warning: stay within the topic; this is about misconduct at Gencon, or within the gaming hobby. Not a general thread about leftist sexual assault hypocrisy, or anything else.
I am discussing misconduct at GenCon, as well as within the gaming hobby. I am not discussing gaming in general, sexual misconduct in general, or leftist sexual assault hypocrisy.
But, once again, just saying "If this is a genuine interest in ensuring the safety of women" then fine, that's excellent. But without asking Dot directly, and given what she has said in the past, I don't think she's interested in helping you advocate for trans-exclusionary spaces.
Quote from: jeff37923 on August 12, 2022, 06:35:19 PM
Hoshisabi, is GenCon paying you to troll this thread? Because you are being an asshat.
That was me being an asshat to Geekybugle, and I really shouldn't have. You're right, and I am sorry.
He levelled a bit of snark, and then made it seem like I was coming out of nowhere, when he was the one who missed the context of what he was replying to.
I could have said that, instead of returning snark, since it doesn't help make the point any better.
As far as GenCon, nah... I haven't been to it for a few years, and the only person I represent is myself.
Quote from: Valatar on August 12, 2022, 05:30:17 PM
Canceled nothing, someone trying to drag women into their room deserves to be tazed by the cops and dragged down a flight of stairs on the way to the car, feet-first. Which is exactly what this person deserves too, but has no indication of actually happening to him. We'll see how it pans out, but none of the accounts mention the victims looking to any
Oh man, that story was kind of a nightmare situation. I'd look it up to get more details, but I'm worried that I also have combined or mixed different incidents, because that's the issue. There's just been so many nightmarish situations.
Hell, one of my friends let me know about a different one of my (former) friends assaulting her at a convention and... You think, "What the hell? I've known that dude for years, I would have never suspected him of doing something like that." (and then afterwards, other folks started to tell me other stories and it just blows your mind.)
But... hell, you find out and you do something about it then.
Just checked ENW - I could not find a thread about this, though there is one about number of visitors at Gencon, whereas sexual harrassment that fits The Narrative, like Bill Webb's behaviour, always gets tons of attention. I think the Woke are an awful lot more hypocritical than the non-Woke.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 07:47:14 PM
Oh man, that story was kind of a nightmare situation. I'd look it up to get more details, but I'm worried that I also have combined or mixed different incidents, because that's the issue.
You don't want to look it up in case you were wrong about it? ??? I think you should look it up. I also think you should stop with the Whataboutism unless you have some actual evidence of disparity, which doesn't seem to be the case.
What is it with these fucking wankers? Have they not a lick of self-control??
Just keep your hands off other people and being drunk is no excuse.
posted in wrong thread
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 07:23:32 PM
Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 05:11:20 PM
I did, twice. I know what I said and I understand tort law. But I am not debating it with you for two reasons.
First, you are not here in good faith so it is a waste of time. You dismiss an entire forum and community of people who are sons and fathers to women they would put their life on the line for...all in the name of gender identity and politics. You are a pathetic troll whose life is so empty you are left with being a canker around here.
It is funny that you said you read it, but you made claims that were not made by Dot. I'm going to lightly touch on this.
You said, specifically:
Quote
changed room arrangements or anything.
No, I didn't say that. I never said anything about room arrangements. I was responding to real members of this community and you decided to insert yourself into it, attributing the wrong quote to me in the process.
And Pundit very clearly said that talking about hypocracy was off-topic for this thread. Here are three times, from different posts, you claimed the site was being hypocritical:
Quote from: hoshisabi
But there's so many of these assaults that happen where everyone involved is cisgender, and the folks claiming that the "blue check mob" are providing cover for the abuser in this situation act in EXACTLY the same fashion that they're acting now.
Everyone is providing support for the victim and calling out the attacker. Just as they've done before, and they will do next time.
It's this forum that's acting differently. I don't tend to see a post about things like any number of past incidents where some loutish dude gets drunk and gropes a woman in an elevator or a bar, or tries to pull a woman into their hotel room, or have a room that they call "the Cosby Room", or ... Well, you get the picture. It happens a lot.
Quote from: hoshisabi
I'm saying I'd be glad for you to search through this forum's posts and show me this forum's IMMENSE CONCERN for the safety of women. I would imagine since you and I both agree that this is a problem in past conventions that either I will see a TON of posts about these past incidents.
Or this particular incident is unusual because there is a transwoman as the attacker.
But, perhaps it's not me that is being disingenuous.
Perhaps many only show concern about women in situations like this, where it involves criticism of a transwoman, then perhaps it's better to just leave women out of it. Just make a thread about what you're actually concerned about.
Quote from: hoshisabi
I mean, I see a lot of these threads in other forums when they happen, I just don't think I see them in THIS forum when they happen.
Are y'all just SUDDENLY becoming interested in making sure our conventions are a safe environment for women? Because, I've really seen a lot of criticism for conventions going woke when they start writing up codes of conduct talking about making shared spaces safe.
If that's the case, then good on y'all, I'm looking forward to seeing you calling for consequences for the next dude that pulls a woman in for a kiss that she wants, or dragging them into their hotel room, or drugging them or ...
I mean, Blizzard is being investigated for these things. Let's check to see what you guys had to say about the allegations that came out about Blizzard having a "Cosby Room" and trying to get women drunk to lower their inhibitions so they could drag them to that room.
You are not really a part of the community, and I suspect you are likely a pretty lonely person. You would have to be to lurk around waiting to wage battles, with people you don't like or otherwise interact with on a regular basis, over a list and now the alleged assault at GenCon. Whether Pundit sticks to his guns or not, whether you stay around under your bridge to pop up for your faux gottcha moments or not, there is zero value in having a conversation with you.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:52:14 PM
Quote
I want to give a shout-out to my Stream Team lead for stepping up to help me out and feel safe. They even went as far as to let me off my Sunday shift early, so Daisy and I didn't have to share a workspace after what happened on Saturday night. Please know that GenCon is currently accepting ANY and ALL incident reports from the week. You can submit those to policyteam@gencon.com. I hope these complaints prompt GenCon to take the actions necessary to bring some closure to those hurt.
So, I would say that this isn't a case where she is unhappy with GenCon.
I will note from this quote that "Daisy" was apparently not kicked out of the GenCon convention if he was allowed to participate on Sunday.
That flies in the face of how GenCon treats accusations of misconduct against straight white men, in which GenCon immediately escorts them out of the convention and releases public statements deploring their behavior.
Quote from: S'mon on August 13, 2022, 02:02:04 AM
Just checked ENW - I could not find a thread about this, though there is one about number of visitors at Gencon, whereas sexual harrassment that fits The Narrative, like Bill Webb's behaviour, always gets tons of attention. I think the Woke are an awful lot more hypocritical than the non-Woke.
Check the replies on Twitter where Dot posted it. Not sure why there's nothing on Enworld, unless it's because generally they accept that "what should have happened, did happen." But this gets closer to the edge of offtopic. (Though I imagine this is still permitted, since we are still talking about it in context of gaming conventions.)
Quote from: FingerRod on August 13, 2022, 10:17:16 AM
No, I didn't say that. I never said anything about room arrangements. I was responding to real members of this community and you decided to insert yourself into it, attributing the wrong quote to me in the process.
Crap, I did. That's my mistake, I apologize. I get lost in trying to juggle multiple replies and I screwed that one up entirely, I quoted the part of the message that you were quoting yourself. You're right, your statement was entirely clear, "Gencon may share some culpability" basically. And I didn't intend to argue that, just the part you quoted.
Quote from: FingerRod on August 13, 2022, 10:17:16 AM
And Pundit very clearly said that talking about hypocracy was off-topic for this thread. Here are three times, from different posts, you claimed the site was being hypocritical:
I've been here a while, I'm pretty sure I'm fine. If RPG Pundit tells me otherwise, I'll accept it. And I've read his other thread ABOUT these sort of arguments, and one of the things that he's said is that arguments like mine are not reportable/offtopic.
But he specifically said general "liberal hypocrisy." I am certainly not doing that, I am discussing this instance in comparison to other incidents at gaming conventions. We don't need to go too meta, after a few levels it BECOMES off-topic, so let's just agree that RPG Pundit can make the call, and I'll accept the judgement. Mostly, though, I've made the point I wanted to make, and I don't need to repeat it beyond that very much. But in the meantime, I'm pretty comfortable with what I've said.
(Check Pundit's thread "GENERAL WARNING: OFF-TOPIC Political Posts on this Subforum")
Quote from: FingerRod on August 13, 2022, 10:17:16 AM
Whether Pundit sticks to his guns or not, whether you stay around under your bridge to pop up for your faux gottcha moments or not, there is zero value in having a conversation with you.
And as a note: this is veering DANGEROUSLY close to that line, so I'd just ... Eh, do not taunt the moderators, let's just say. Just as a bit of advice for the future.
Quote from: hoshisabi
You are not really a part of the community, and I suspect you are likely a pretty lonely person. You would have to be to lurk around waiting to wage battles, with people you don't like or otherwise interact with on a regular basis, over a list and now the alleged assault at GenCon.
I appreciate your concern for me, but I'm perfectly content. I tool about on the internet arguing with people who have very different opinions than me, sometimes to understand them, sometimes to see if they change their opinions. I've had points that I've learned, I've had points where others have in fact changed their opinions, and I've seen that this forum is definitely not a homogenous singular entity.
One thing I'd like to point out, though, is that it's a lot less hostile than you imagine it to be. "Don't like" is not true.
You might as well be half my gaming group or my family or any number of folks that I also regularly argue with. The difficulty is that you don't have a drink in front of you as we discuss, so you don't see the face of the other person. You don't see that they're presenting opinions and points, not tossing barbs at you.
with regards to the list: well, that's another thread, feel free to reply there where it's on-topic.
Quote from: FingerRod on August 13, 2022, 10:17:16 AM
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 07:23:32 PM
Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 05:11:20 PM
I did, twice. I know what I said and I understand tort law. But I am not debating it with you for two reasons.
First, you are not here in good faith so it is a waste of time. You dismiss an entire forum and community of people who are sons and fathers to women they would put their life on the line for...all in the name of gender identity and politics. You are a pathetic troll whose life is so empty you are left with being a canker around here.
It is funny that you said you read it, but you made claims that were not made by Dot. I'm going to lightly touch on this.
You said, specifically:
Quote
changed room arrangements or anything.
No, I didn't say that. I never said anything about room arrangements. I was responding to real members of this community and you decided to insert yourself into it, attributing the wrong quote to me in the process.
And Pundit very clearly said that talking about hypocracy was off-topic for this thread. Here are three times, from different posts, you claimed the site was being hypocritical:
Quote from: hoshisabi
But there's so many of these assaults that happen where everyone involved is cisgender, and the folks claiming that the "blue check mob" are providing cover for the abuser in this situation act in EXACTLY the same fashion that they're acting now.
Everyone is providing support for the victim and calling out the attacker. Just as they've done before, and they will do next time.
It's this forum that's acting differently. I don't tend to see a post about things like any number of past incidents where some loutish dude gets drunk and gropes a woman in an elevator or a bar, or tries to pull a woman into their hotel room, or have a room that they call "the Cosby Room", or ... Well, you get the picture. It happens a lot.
Quote from: hoshisabi
I'm saying I'd be glad for you to search through this forum's posts and show me this forum's IMMENSE CONCERN for the safety of women. I would imagine since you and I both agree that this is a problem in past conventions that either I will see a TON of posts about these past incidents.
Or this particular incident is unusual because there is a transwoman as the attacker.
But, perhaps it's not me that is being disingenuous.
Perhaps many only show concern about women in situations like this, where it involves criticism of a transwoman, then perhaps it's better to just leave women out of it. Just make a thread about what you're actually concerned about.
Quote from: hoshisabi
I mean, I see a lot of these threads in other forums when they happen, I just don't think I see them in THIS forum when they happen.
Are y'all just SUDDENLY becoming interested in making sure our conventions are a safe environment for women? Because, I've really seen a lot of criticism for conventions going woke when they start writing up codes of conduct talking about making shared spaces safe.
If that's the case, then good on y'all, I'm looking forward to seeing you calling for consequences for the next dude that pulls a woman in for a kiss that she wants, or dragging them into their hotel room, or drugging them or ...
I mean, Blizzard is being investigated for these things. Let's check to see what you guys had to say about the allegations that came out about Blizzard having a "Cosby Room" and trying to get women drunk to lower their inhibitions so they could drag them to that room.
You are not really a part of the community, and I suspect you are likely a pretty lonely person. You would have to be to lurk around waiting to wage battles, with people you don't like or otherwise interact with on a regular basis, over a list and now the alleged assault at GenCon. Whether Pundit sticks to his guns or not, whether you stay around under your bridge to pop up for your faux gottcha moments or not, there is zero value in having a conversation with you.
Greetings!
FingerRod whips out the set of Ginsu Knives and goes to work!
Sharp analysis, my friend. I have wondered what the hell Hoshisabi is even trying to argue.
This seems to be a very clear case of a man sexually harassing a woman, perhaps even sexual assault. He acted horribly towards this woman. As DocJones keenly observed, as per Gen Con's usual response to incidents such as this, why didn't Gen Con immediately ban him from the convention, and release a public statement about how deplorable and terrible the man is?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: S'mon on August 13, 2022, 02:04:18 AM
You don't want to look it up in case you were wrong about it? ??? I think you should look it up. I also think you should stop with the Whataboutism unless you have some actual evidence of disparity, which doesn't seem to be the case.
Nah, more because it's one of those things where you do a search and you find so many entries that you then have to pick through to figure out if you got the right incident.
And that one incident wasn't a particularly crucial case to any arguments I made. The idea of "sexual assault happened at a gaming convention" isn't something I need to prove to any of you. Hell, I have literally talked to a victim of a local convention and know the person who made the assault.
But if I were to do a search with just those details, I'll get a ton of incidents, then you send up spending an hour or so reading about sexual assaults on a Friday evening and ... Gah, nah, it's just unpleasant and I'd rather not. ( I did a search earlier on that other incident, and the just the first page turned up four other incidents, and I didn't get my actual intended result until the second, so I anticipate this one will be the same. )
If someone recalls the incident and points out "Nah, that specific incident happened at a tech conference" or "It wasn't a bystander" or whatever, I'll accept it. Because nah, I just ... nah, do not want to start reading up about a bunch of incidents again. Too many bad incidents in the past.
Can anyone find the past threads here of similar claims made against a semi-D&D-celebrities at GenCon, PaizoCon, Dragonsfoot, GaryCon, etc.?
This one is about Bill Webb. (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/stacey-d-calls-for-boycott-of-garycon/)
This one about Frank Mentzer (https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/garycom-just-removed-frank-mentzer-from-the-guest-list/)
People keep claiming that the reactions of folks here depends on whether the perpetrator of the harassment is male, or trans female. I think it's fair then to compare what people said before in similar circumstances about these kinds of events at gaming conventions before. The circumstances of course will differ but some broad statements are likely comparable.
My recollection, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that people here often had little sympathy for Frank Mentzer.
Quote from: Mistwell on August 13, 2022, 12:00:42 PM
Can anyone find the past threads here of similar claims made against a semi-D&D-celebrities at GenCon, PaizoCon, Dragonsfoot, GaryCon, etc.?
Thanks, I'll have to read through them.
Quote from: Mistwell on August 13, 2022, 12:00:42 PM
People keep claiming that the reactions of folks here depends on whether the perpetrator of the harassment is male, or trans female. I think it's fair then to compare what people said before in similar circumstances about these kinds of events at gaming conventions before. The circumstances of course will differ but some broad statements are likely comparable.
My recollection, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that people here often had little sympathy for Frank Mentzer.
"People" is usually just me. I'm a contrarian occasionally, but a harmless one.
If that's true, if folks speak out consistently, then excellent. Honestly, my judgement isn't worth a thing, so if folks are defending victims then good, that's all we need, right?
And as far as Mentzer. Those stories were so disappointing, dude wrote THE BOOK that I carried around with me as a kid.
Quote from: Mistwell on August 13, 2022, 12:00:42 PM
Can anyone find the past threads here of similar claims made against a semi-D&D-celebrities at GenCon, PaizoCon, Dragonsfoot, GaryCon, etc.?
GenCon, Origins and GaryCon have no problems allowing convicted pedophiles and rapists attending their conventions.
They do not do any background checks on attendees whatsoever. Not even a search on the National Sex Offender Public website.
However I am banned from GenCon, Origins and GaryCon for a far far worse offense. /sarc
There are threads about it here.
Quote from: DocJones on August 13, 2022, 12:35:16 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on August 13, 2022, 12:00:42 PM
Can anyone find the past threads here of similar claims made against a semi-D&D-celebrities at GenCon, PaizoCon, Dragonsfoot, GaryCon, etc.?
GenCon, Origins and GaryCon have no problems allowing convicted pedophiles and rapists attending their conventions.
They do not do any background checks on attendees whatsoever. Not even a search on the National Sex Offender Public website.
However I am banned from GenCon, Origins and GaryCon for a far far worse offense. /sarc
There are threads about it here.
Running background checks on people attending a convention, rather than participating as guests of honor, would be way too burdensome on a business. I've never been involved with running a gaming convention but I was at least in the orbit of someone running a comic convention and there would be no way to reasonably run background checks on attendees. It's not that you'd have "no problem" with letting people with convictions attend, it's that there's no practical way to screen for that in just attendees.
I guess if someone were reported in advance of the convention to be a convict, you could look into it then and ban someone. But just screen everyone? Not a practical requirement. It's not like there is a commonly available, "Never convicted of being a podophile or rapist" card you can check at the door.
Quote from: Mistwell on August 13, 2022, 12:40:34 PM
I guess if someone were reported in advance of the convention to be a convict, you could look into it then and ban someone. But just screen everyone? Not a practical requirement. It's not like there is a commonly available, "Never convicted of being a podophile or rapist" card you can check at the door.
heh, I had a roommate for one of the GenCons that I volunteered for that never showed up.
Apparently he had an arrest warrant out on him if he crossed the border, but despite that... he crossed the border. So he was detained by police and wouldn't be showing up.
But dayum, it was one of those "Uh, what did I agree to?" when you realize you agreed to share a room with three strangers. So, yeah, might be tough to do a background check, but on the other hand, it made me think "You know what, I can probably afford my own hotel room next year."
Quote from: Mistwell on August 13, 2022, 12:40:34 PM
Quote from: DocJones on August 13, 2022, 12:35:16 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on August 13, 2022, 12:00:42 PM
Can anyone find the past threads here of similar claims made against a semi-D&D-celebrities at GenCon, PaizoCon, Dragonsfoot, GaryCon, etc.?
GenCon, Origins and GaryCon have no problems allowing convicted pedophiles and rapists attending their conventions.
They do not do any background checks on attendees whatsoever. Not even a search on the National Sex Offender Public website.
However I am banned from GenCon, Origins and GaryCon for a far far worse offense. /sarc
There are threads about it here.
Running background checks on people attending a convention, rather than participating as guests of honor, would be way too burdensome on a business. I've never been involved with running a gaming convention but I was at least in the orbit of someone running a comic convention and there would be no way to reasonably run background checks on attendees. It's not that you'd have "no problem" with letting people with convictions attend, it's that there's no practical way to screen for that in just attendees.
I guess if someone were reported in advance of the convention to be a convict, you could look into it then and ban someone. But just screen everyone? Not a practical requirement. It's not like there is a commonly available, "Never convicted of being a podophile or rapist" card you can check at the door.
I've had to run criminal background checks on potential employees. It's neither fast nor cheap, and that's why it's typically not done until after a good first (sometimes second) interview. Trying to run checks on convention attendees would be madness.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 13, 2022, 12:50:48 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on August 13, 2022, 12:40:34 PM
I guess if someone were reported in advance of the convention to be a convict, you could look into it then and ban someone. But just screen everyone? Not a practical requirement. It's not like there is a commonly available, "Never convicted of being a podophile or rapist" card you can check at the door.
heh, I had a roommate for one of the GenCons that I volunteered for that never showed up.
Apparently he had an arrest warrant out on him if he crossed the border, but despite that... he crossed the border. So he was detained by police and wouldn't be showing up.
But dayum, it was one of those "Uh, what did I agree to?" when you realize you agreed to share a room with three strangers. So, yeah, might be tough to do a background check, but on the other hand, it made me think "You know what, I can probably afford my own hotel room next year."
Or you can do a quick cost/benefit analysis and then just choose not to go. That is the route that I have chosen. GenCon has demonstrated that they do not like my kind (and will not provide a worthwhile environment for the price), so I feel no need to give them money.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 13, 2022, 12:51:42 PM
I've had to run criminal background checks on potential employees. It's neither fast nor cheap, and that's why it's typically not done until after a good first (sometimes second) interview. Trying to run checks on convention attendees would be madness.
Nah, it takes like 20 seconds and no charge to query the NSOPW.
Hell they could do it anytime after ordering and before printing the badge or check it on arrival when their staff checks whether your other papers are in order.
WoTC says the are doing background checks on judges since that Jeremy Hambly exposed the MtG pedo judges.
I highly suspect that's why GenCon really banned him when he was the victim of an attack offsite two years later.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 12:05:53 PM
Because working together REQUIRES you to share a room...
Well hang on now, because it's not clear to me either, which is the real situation. There's two very different scenarios.
Its clear that the two people involved already knew each other, had worked together before, were both invited in some way to be there by GENCON and were both put in the same hotel room.
But which of the two is the case:
1) GENCON required that volunteers or whatever share hotel rooms, and these two people who already knew each other both CHOSE to share a room together?
or
2) GENCON requires that volunteers share hotel rooms, and these two people were ASSIGNED to share a room together, and both just happened to know each other?
Because in fact those are two very different scenarios as per GENCON's policy/responsibility.
Quote from: jeff37923 on August 13, 2022, 04:18:00 PM
Or you can do a quick cost/benefit analysis and then just choose not to go. That is the route that I have chosen. GenCon has demonstrated that they do not like my kind (and will not provide a worthwhile environment for the price), so I feel no need to give them money.
In my case I have only been able to 'afford' it the last 4 or 5 times I went because a friend lets me stay in her room. There are also 3 or 4 other friends of hers sharing the room(s) - but I've grown to trust them. The small irony is that she and I first met when we were both in costume way back in 2000, and for three years we had no idea what each other looked like as a 'Human'.
If I didn't have that option of an almost free room space and roommates I trust - then I would not go.
- Ed C.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 07:23:32 PM
As for sincerity, yes, I do believe that trans women are not statistically more likely than others to be attackers, but it's kind of irrelevant at this point. I could give a number of stats and try and make that argument, but I haven't and won't try. (And if it seems like I have, I apologize. I know better, it's not going to convince anyone so... I'll try and avoid it.)
I'm curious... do you think that men are statistically more likely to commit sexual assault than women are?
Quote from: FingerRod on August 13, 2022, 10:17:16 AM
And Pundit very clearly said that talking about hypocracy was off-topic for this thread. Here are three times, from different posts, you claimed the site was being hypocritical:
What I stated was about "leftist sexual assault hypocrisy in general". What I do NOT want this thread to turn into is a general discussion, as it was threatening to become earlier on, about all the long list of leftist celebrities and political figures etc who assaulted women, often after making woke statements, etc etc.
The topic is specifically about the Sexual Assault at GENCON. I don't want it splitting off to talk about other cases or about "how bad leftists suck" in general or something like that.
I haven't found that hoshisabi has broken that rule yet, though some of his bringing up other examples of men assaulting women might, if they had become a topic of themselves, have done so, but he was bringing those up as a specific example in his argument about the GENCON assault now. So it's well within bounds.
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 06:50:12 PM
I'm curious... do you think that men are statistically more likely to commit sexual assault than women are?
Yes, however, I did make a point of saying "I don't wish to try and convince anyone of it." Statistics rarely convince anyone, you can always slice and dice a statistic to say what you want.
Honestly, you made the main point I was trying to make a few posts ago, we don't yet know if GenCon was the source of them having to room together or if this was something that they agreed to ahead of time.
My thought is that it's far more a prevention of problems to not force strangers to bunk together than anything to do with gender identity.
Heck, last time I was given a free room for being a DM at GenCon I was expected to not just share the room, but also a bed. (two beds, four occupants, and one of the beds was actually a pull out couch.)
Luckily two of my roommates didn't show and I knew the other. So I was fine. But, one of my roommates couldn't make it because he had been arrested.
That was one of those moments where I wondered if perhaps sharing the room blindly with someone else isn't a bit of an issue.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 13, 2022, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 06:50:12 PM
I'm curious... do you think that men are statistically more likely to commit sexual assault than women are?
Yes, however, I did make a point of saying "I don't wish to try and convince anyone of it." Statistics rarely convince anyone, you can always slice and dice a statistic to say what you want.
Honestly, you made the main point I was trying to make a few posts ago, we don't yet know if GenCon was the source of them having to room together or if this was something that they agreed to ahead of time.
My thought is that it's far more a prevention of problems to not force strangers to bunk together than anything to do with gender identity.
Heck, last time I was given a free room I was expected to not just share the room, but also a bed. (two beds, four occupants, and one of the beds was actually a pull out couch.)
Luckily two of my roommates didn't show and I knew the other. So I was fine. But, one of my roommates couldn't make it because he had been arrested.
That was one of those moments where I wondered if perhaps sharing the room blindly with someone else isn't a bit of an issue.
Ok, but you do believe there are statistical differences. So you must also believe that statistics matter to some degree.
Here's a curious statistic for you, which has been noted in multiple studies; for some reason, the number of cases of women charged with sexual crimes has been going up over the last few years. Why would that be? All of a sudden, these last few years?
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 07:05:50 PM
Ok, but you do believe there are statistical differences. So you must also believe that statistics matter to some degree.
Here's a curious statistic for you, which has been noted in multiple studies; for some reason, the number of cases of women charged with sexual crimes has been going up over the last few years. Why would that be? All of a sudden, these last few years?
I'm sure you're going to insinuate a reason that I will disagree with, but I also think we'd be veering off-topic if I presented a counter-argument and I'd rather not do that, correct?
Quote from: SHARK on August 13, 2022, 11:35:27 AM
This seems to be a very clear case of a man sexually harassing a woman, perhaps even sexual assault. He acted horribly towards this woman. As DocJones keenly observed, as per Gen Con's usual response to incidents such as this, why didn't Gen Con immediately ban him from the convention, and release a public statement about how deplorable and terrible the man is?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
It's a trans person, so gen con is probably trying to figure out how to approach this. Wokists eating themselves. They hit on a situation where they have to see who is more of a victim. I mean, they need to check their charts about who is most oppressed. I think, in a way, they're in a jam.
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 05:41:48 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 12:05:53 PM
Because working together REQUIRES you to share a room...
Well hang on now, because it's not clear to me either, which is the real situation. There's two very different scenarios.
Its clear that the two people involved already knew each other, had worked together before, were both invited in some way to be there by GENCON and were both put in the same hotel room.
But which of the two is the case:
1) GENCON required that volunteers or whatever share hotel rooms, and these two people who already knew each other both CHOSE to share a room together?
or
2) GENCON requires that volunteers share hotel rooms, and these two people were ASSIGNED to share a room together, and both just happened to know each other?
Because in fact those are two very different scenarios as per GENCON's policy/responsibility.
From what I understood the rooms were assigned by GenCon. If they REQUIRE the room sharing is beyond what I know and what was shared about this issue.
I don't KNOW which one of those is true, have you read the link? Can you elucidate from that what case it was?
Quote from: DocJones on August 13, 2022, 04:35:22 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 13, 2022, 12:51:42 PM
I've had to run criminal background checks on potential employees. It's neither fast nor cheap, and that's why it's typically not done until after a good first (sometimes second) interview. Trying to run checks on convention attendees would be madness.
Nah, it takes like 20 seconds and no charge to query the NSOPW.
Hell they could do it anytime after ordering and before printing the badge or check it on arrival when their staff checks whether your other papers are in order.
WoTC says the are doing background checks on judges since that Jeremy Hambly exposed the MtG pedo judges.
I highly suspect that's why GenCon really banned him when he was the victim of an attack offsite two years later.
This is one of those times where exaggerating on the internet is truly not helpful. While an actual search for a proper name based on an ID might take 20 seconds to type into that search engine, that's not in a practical sense how this process would function. Because you're not dealing with a copy of someone's ID just popping up on a screen for you to enter - you're dealing with whatever name they put in the database for ticketing to begin with, with likely no other information like their permanent official address on record with the state and their date of birth and such. It would be a process fraught with errors and those errors make things crawl. This is not a practical solution.
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 07:05:50 PM
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 13, 2022, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 06:50:12 PM
I'm curious... do you think that men are statistically more likely to commit sexual assault than women are?
Yes, however, I did make a point of saying "I don't wish to try and convince anyone of it." Statistics rarely convince anyone, you can always slice and dice a statistic to say what you want.
Honestly, you made the main point I was trying to make a few posts ago, we don't yet know if GenCon was the source of them having to room together or if this was something that they agreed to ahead of time.
My thought is that it's far more a prevention of problems to not force strangers to bunk together than anything to do with gender identity.
Heck, last time I was given a free room I was expected to not just share the room, but also a bed. (two beds, four occupants, and one of the beds was actually a pull out couch.)
Luckily two of my roommates didn't show and I knew the other. So I was fine. But, one of my roommates couldn't make it because he had been arrested.
That was one of those moments where I wondered if perhaps sharing the room blindly with someone else isn't a bit of an issue.
Ok, but you do believe there are statistical differences. So you must also believe that statistics matter to some degree.
Here's a curious statistic for you, which has been noted in multiple studies; for some reason, the number of cases of women charged with sexual crimes has been going up over the last few years. Why would that be? All of a sudden, these last few years?
But he also believes that the abuser was and is a woman, ergo in his mind on the side that commits less sexual assault.
And that's the crux of his "argument".
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 13, 2022, 08:05:54 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 07:05:50 PM
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 13, 2022, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 06:50:12 PM
I'm curious... do you think that men are statistically more likely to commit sexual assault than women are?
Yes, however, I did make a point of saying "I don't wish to try and convince anyone of it." Statistics rarely convince anyone, you can always slice and dice a statistic to say what you want.
Honestly, you made the main point I was trying to make a few posts ago, we don't yet know if GenCon was the source of them having to room together or if this was something that they agreed to ahead of time.
My thought is that it's far more a prevention of problems to not force strangers to bunk together than anything to do with gender identity.
Heck, last time I was given a free room I was expected to not just share the room, but also a bed. (two beds, four occupants, and one of the beds was actually a pull out couch.)
Luckily two of my roommates didn't show and I knew the other. So I was fine. But, one of my roommates couldn't make it because he had been arrested.
That was one of those moments where I wondered if perhaps sharing the room blindly with someone else isn't a bit of an issue.
Ok, but you do believe there are statistical differences. So you must also believe that statistics matter to some degree.
Here's a curious statistic for you, which has been noted in multiple studies; for some reason, the number of cases of women charged with sexual crimes has been going up over the last few years. Why would that be? All of a sudden, these last few years?
But he also believes that the abuser was and is a woman, ergo in his mind on the side that commits less sexual assault.
And that's the crux of his "argument".
Greetings!
Well, anyone that believes that the abuser is a "woman" must be an absolutely delusional moron. The abuser is a *man* that was wearing a dress and a fucking wig.
Geesus. It is so sad and pathetic that our society has become so mentally infantile and delusional.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Jason Coplen on August 13, 2022, 07:57:31 PM
Quote from: SHARK on August 13, 2022, 11:35:27 AM
This seems to be a very clear case of a man sexually harassing a woman, perhaps even sexual assault. He acted horribly towards this woman. As DocJones keenly observed, as per Gen Con's usual response to incidents such as this, why didn't Gen Con immediately ban him from the convention, and release a public statement about how deplorable and terrible the man is?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
It's a trans person, so gen con is probably trying to figure out how to approach this. Wokists eating themselves. They hit on a situation where they have to see who is more of a victim. I mean, they need to check their charts about who is most oppressed. I think, in a way, they're in a jam.
Greetings!
*Laughing* Good point, my friend. There I go again, assuming logic, common sense, and truth.
One has to expect the woke fucking crybabies at Gen Con to always embrace the opposite.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Does the incident or event impact or affect the average gamer at Gen Con ?
At Gen con next year?
Or does it impact any average gamer anywhere?
- Ed C.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 13, 2022, 08:05:54 PM
And that's the crux of his "argument".
No, my argument is that we don't have the details and folks are stepping over each other to speak up in this case because it gives them a chance to pat each other on the back about recognizing the "danger of those scary people that we warned you about." I suggested that the interest in this case was less about protecting the victim, who has a voice and got an outcome she wanted from GenCon.
Either you want to punish the attacker or you want to improve the safety of women at conventions.
But the "punish the attacker" is a similar situation to that of Bill Webb: the victim has a voice and is willing to advocate for herself. Folks were willing to accept that about BJ Hensley.
Or improving the safety of women at conventions is a much more complicated topic than just "don't force the cisgender and transgender to share rooms," which wouldn't make an appreciable difference. I can personally attest that cisgender women can imbibe too much and then sexually assault someone.
The better outcome might just be "forcing folks to share rooms with strangers is fraught with dangers."
But, like I pointed out, and RPG Pundit later ALSO pointed out, we don't know the facts about how they got this room. It might have been something they worked out themselves.
I personally know of cisgender members of the opposite sex who shared a room platonically because they arranged for it ahead of time. So, regardless of the facts about who is more likely to assault a woman, be they men or women themselves, ... GenCon doesn't prevent cisgender men and cisgender women from sharing a space if they agreed ahead of time.
So unless you hear that she was forced into a situation unwillingly, we just can't draw a conclusion about that.
But, to reiterate: the victim sought help from the organizers that put her there, she got an outcome she seems happy with, and I suspect we should let the woman have her voice.
1) Anyone attending GenCon deserves what they get. Kneel to the woketards, get assfucked. Idiotic GenCon required face diapers! And hosted racially segregated events! What a utter embarrassing laughable joke. If you choose to give them your time and money, take the monkeypox dick up your ass without complaint.
2) There is no such thing as "cisgender" or "transgender". These are bullshit terms of marxists who need a bullet through their empty heads. Mentally ill transvestites don't get to change reality nor our language.
3) Why is anyone believing the stronk wahmen who wrote this screed? While its good for a laugh in Clown World, where is the police report? Anybody seen one?
Quote from: Spinachcat on August 13, 2022, 10:23:39 PM
.. where is the police report? Anybody seen one?
A good point.
If someone working for an organization, volunteer or not, reported a sexual assault that organization would be grossly irresponsible not to call the police.
Regardless of the victim's wishes.
Bad on whoever was running this at GenCon.
Quote from: Mistwell on August 13, 2022, 08:05:27 PM
Quote from: DocJones on August 13, 2022, 04:35:22 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 13, 2022, 12:51:42 PM
I've had to run criminal background checks on potential employees. It's neither fast nor cheap, and that's why it's typically not done until after a good first (sometimes second) interview. Trying to run checks on convention attendees would be madness.
Nah, it takes like 20 seconds and no charge to query the NSOPW.
Hell they could do it anytime after ordering and before printing the badge or check it on arrival when their staff checks whether your other papers are in order.
WoTC says the are doing background checks on judges since that Jeremy Hambly exposed the MtG pedo judges.
I highly suspect that's why GenCon really banned him when he was the victim of an attack offsite two years later.
This is one of those times where exaggerating on the internet is truly not helpful. While an actual search for a proper name based on an ID might take 20 seconds to type into that search engine, that's not in a practical sense how this process would function. Because you're not dealing with a copy of someone's ID just popping up on a screen for you to enter - you're dealing with whatever name they put in the database for ticketing to begin with, with likely no other information like their permanent official address on record with the state and their date of birth and such. It would be a process fraught with errors and those errors make things crawl. This is not a practical solution.
I agree. I'm not going to drag this off topic further, but the "20 seconds approach" is woefully ineffective on its own.
Quote from: SHARK on August 13, 2022, 08:56:28 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 13, 2022, 08:05:54 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 07:05:50 PM
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 13, 2022, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 06:50:12 PM
I'm curious... do you think that men are statistically more likely to commit sexual assault than women are?
Yes, however, I did make a point of saying "I don't wish to try and convince anyone of it." Statistics rarely convince anyone, you can always slice and dice a statistic to say what you want.
Honestly, you made the main point I was trying to make a few posts ago, we don't yet know if GenCon was the source of them having to room together or if this was something that they agreed to ahead of time.
My thought is that it's far more a prevention of problems to not force strangers to bunk together than anything to do with gender identity.
Heck, last time I was given a free room I was expected to not just share the room, but also a bed. (two beds, four occupants, and one of the beds was actually a pull out couch.)
Luckily two of my roommates didn't show and I knew the other. So I was fine. But, one of my roommates couldn't make it because he had been arrested.
That was one of those moments where I wondered if perhaps sharing the room blindly with someone else isn't a bit of an issue.
Ok, but you do believe there are statistical differences. So you must also believe that statistics matter to some degree.
Here's a curious statistic for you, which has been noted in multiple studies; for some reason, the number of cases of women charged with sexual crimes has been going up over the last few years. Why would that be? All of a sudden, these last few years?
But he also believes that the abuser was and is a woman, ergo in his mind on the side that commits less sexual assault.
And that's the crux of his "argument".
Greetings!
Well, anyone that believes that the abuser is a "woman" must be an absolutely delusional moron. The abuser is a *man* that was wearing a dress and a fucking wig.
Geesus. It is so sad and pathetic that our society has become so mentally infantile and delusional.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I've known a trans woman for about half my life. I think of her as a woman. It's still present in my mind that she's a trans woman, but she's categorized as "woman" in my mind.
That doesn't mean this person that is the topic of this thread, who I've never met, I'd categorize that way. I don't know them so it's hard to say what I'd think about them in that respect. But I absolutely think at least my friend is rightly classified as a trans woman, and not a man in a dress. In fact it would be weird for me to try and think of her as a man. She's just...there is very little about her which I think of as man-like. However you'd describe that "sensing female" part of your senses, she registers that way. She was genuinely (in my opinion) just as an accident of nature born with the wrong genitalia, which fortunately was corrected.
And she does game (though not lately). I don't think she's been to GenCon but she's been to gaming cons. No idea if gaming and being trans runs more commonly together than non-trans people, though I do think the "play as another person" idea makes sense for someone who transformed their bodies to match how they think.
Quote from: Mistwell on August 14, 2022, 12:17:14 AM
I've known a trans woman for about half my life. I think of her as a woman. It's still present in my mind that she's a trans woman, but she's categorized as "woman" in my mind.
That doesn't mean this person that is the topic of this thread, who I've never met, I'd categorize that way. I don't know them so it's hard to say what I'd think about them in that respect. But I absolutely think at least my friend is rightly classified as a trans woman, and not a man in a dress. In fact it would be weird for me to try and think of her as a man. She's just...there is very little about her which I think of as man-like. However you'd describe that "sensing female" part of your senses, she registers that way. She was genuinely (in my opinion) just as an accident of nature born with the wrong genitalia, which fortunately was corrected.
And she does game (though not lately). I don't think she's been to GenCon but she's been to gaming cons. No idea if gaming and being trans runs more commonly together than non-trans people, though I do think the "play as another person" idea makes sense for someone who transformed their bodies to match how they think.
What? Mistwell, a poster known for his/her milquetoast, conformist nature, and worship of middle-of-the-road thinking, is able to convince him/herself that a dude in a dress is actually a woman (showing his/her impeccable politeness)? Who would have thought it possible?
The issue here is not whether you are capable of self-delusion (no question there). The question is whether or not a convention like GenCon a) places its workers in shared rooms without the workers getting a choice, b) does so without respect to the sex or feelings of the people involved, and c) is in any way culpable for what happened to the victim in question because of the answers to the previous questions. Now, I tend to think, unless the room assignment was forced and GenCon knew the roommate was a "dude-in-a-dress", and also the victim didn't complain beforehand, that this is mostly a self-inflicted situation. There were lots of signs before "body draped over me" that the chick should have bailed. But, in standard fashion for the young woke of today, when something untoward happens, she is frozen in incomprehension ("How could this happen to
ME?"), followed by running to mommy to fix it. But this is a fault of how society has raised its young, especially young women, not GenCon.
Where there is some culpability on GenCon's part is in their response. If they had gotten a report of a dude-in-pants that had behaved in this manner, that dude would have been escorted out posthaste (evidence be damned), and/or the victim moved to other quarters instantly (the offer of the manager's room may fit the second criteria...it's unclear if that was a personal or professional offer). So there is a ton of double-standard in GenCon's response, apparently because we are dealing with "dude-in-a-dress"...
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 13, 2022, 07:36:30 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 07:05:50 PM
Ok, but you do believe there are statistical differences. So you must also believe that statistics matter to some degree.
Here's a curious statistic for you, which has been noted in multiple studies; for some reason, the number of cases of women charged with sexual crimes has been going up over the last few years. Why would that be? All of a sudden, these last few years?
I'm sure you're going to insinuate a reason that I will disagree with, but I also think we'd be veering off-topic if I presented a counter-argument and I'd rather not do that, correct?
Well, my answer would be that it's a major problem with gathering useful information while using only two gender categories for ideological reasons.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 13, 2022, 08:04:02 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 05:41:48 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 12:05:53 PM
Because working together REQUIRES you to share a room...
Well hang on now, because it's not clear to me either, which is the real situation. There's two very different scenarios.
Its clear that the two people involved already knew each other, had worked together before, were both invited in some way to be there by GENCON and were both put in the same hotel room.
But which of the two is the case:
1) GENCON required that volunteers or whatever share hotel rooms, and these two people who already knew each other both CHOSE to share a room together?
or
2) GENCON requires that volunteers share hotel rooms, and these two people were ASSIGNED to share a room together, and both just happened to know each other?
Because in fact those are two very different scenarios as per GENCON's policy/responsibility.
From what I understood the rooms were assigned by GenCon. If they REQUIRE the room sharing is beyond what I know and what was shared about this issue.
I don't KNOW which one of those is true, have you read the link? Can you elucidate from that what case it was?
No, I honestly don't know either. It's not very clear from the victim's account, whether they were just told by Gencon "you're sharing a room with this person" who they happened to have some previous acquaintance with, or if they volunteered/agreed to share the room with that person in some way.
Quote from: Koltar on August 13, 2022, 09:36:26 PM
Does the incident or event impact or affect the average gamer at Gen Con ?
At Gen con next year?
Or does it impact any average gamer anywhere?
- Ed C.
Well, it would certainly be something that might affect the streamer volunteers next year...
@Eirikrautha I think you're correct in that the incident itself was at least somewhat self-inflicted because the victim's Woke belief prevented her from evaluating her roommate as a man. If she was told that she was going to be given a male roommate I think she is more likely to have objected and pushed back, but because they guy is wearing a veil of being a woman her belief led her to thinking her roommate was no different than having a female roommate.
GenCon's response has been thoroughly hypocritical. If not for the veil of being a woman the violator would have been kicked out on his ass post haste, along with some PR to go along with it to show how GenCon was dedicated to providing safety. However, their Wokeness has prevented them from treating the violator the same as any other male who doesn't put on the transgender veil.
I would not expect GenCon to make any changes to how they handle room assignments as their belief in Wokeness is strong, unless the majority of their female guests they assign housing for demand a change, but I doubt that'll happen either. They've all made a crap sandwich for themselves, and by God they're going to keep eating that crap sandwich.
Quote from: Koltar on August 13, 2022, 05:44:46 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on August 13, 2022, 04:18:00 PM
Or you can do a quick cost/benefit analysis and then just choose not to go. That is the route that I have chosen. GenCon has demonstrated that they do not like my kind (and will not provide a worthwhile environment for the price), so I feel no need to give them money.
In my case I have only been able to 'afford' it the last 4 or 5 times I went because a friend lets me stay in her room. There are also 3 or 4 other friends of hers sharing the room(s) - but I've grown to trust them. The small irony is that she and I first met when we were both in costume way back in 2000, and for three years we had no idea what each other looked like as a 'Human'.
If I didn't have that option of an almost free room space and roommates I trust - then I would not go.
- Ed C.
The lady who was sexually assaulted stayed in that room for free too. That was was how she got sexually assaulted by a trans, because the GenCon official in charge of room assignments placed her there thinking it was safe because male-to-female trans = female ib fucked up woke math.
Quote from: Koltar on August 13, 2022, 09:36:26 PM
Does the incident or event impact or affect the average gamer at Gen Con ?
At Gen con next year?
Or does it impact any average gamer anywhere?
- Ed C.
Since this has happened at GenCon and they are responsible for the room assignment that led to this, I'd say that this is unique to GenCon.
Will it matter next year? Well in previous years we have seen a popular podcaster get assaulted (which GenCon did nothing about) and GenCon itself has declared that the non-woke are not welcome there. So I'm secure in calling this a pattern of behavior for the convention.
"Or does it impact any average gamer anywhere?" is an obfuscation of the incident at hand. Do we have to worry about every gamer in the world? Do we just have to worry about the average ones? Is sexual assault OK for you as long as it is just at GenCon?
Your argument is one that the woke use. How about we just declare that sexual assault is wrong and that it is bad no matter how you look at it.
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 05:41:48 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 12:05:53 PM
Because working together REQUIRES you to share a room...
Well hang on now, because it's not clear to me either, which is the real situation. There's two very different scenarios.
Its clear that the two people involved already knew each other, had worked together before, were both invited in some way to be there by GENCON and were both put in the same hotel room.
But which of the two is the case:
1) GENCON required that volunteers or whatever share hotel rooms, and these two people who already knew each other both CHOSE to share a room together?
or
2) GENCON requires that volunteers share hotel rooms, and these two people were ASSIGNED to share a room together, and both just happened to know each other?
Because in fact those are two very different scenarios as per GENCON's policy/responsibility.
Both scenarios have the same end result because they knew eachother anyhow. And would have had potentially the same end result had they not.
I am guessing the room sharing is to both cut costs and not use up attendee rooms.
Sounds like they opted to share the room based on knowing eachother. Thats fairly common for con goers too.
Big question is. Did she know this person had mental problems?
Way back in 2001 our transport to a con had a panic attack in the middle of the night, flipped out and was hellbent on getting to the con like NOW! I went along to keep an eye on him and whoooo-eeee that as one mad ride in the pitch black at breakneck speeds. Luckily he got lost. Calmed down and I got him to turn around ad head back to where had left the others. I think at one point we were doing close to 100mph and were lucky we didn't hit anything, wrap around a tree, or get pulled over by a cop.
Seeing someone just fail their sanity check and having to deal with it can be a pretty harrowing thing.
I feel sorry for both of them, if the guy/gal who flipped out was suffering from some mental disorder. And sounds like they do.
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 14, 2022, 11:07:32 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 13, 2022, 08:04:02 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 05:41:48 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 12:05:53 PM
Because working together REQUIRES you to share a room...
Well hang on now, because it's not clear to me either, which is the real situation. There's two very different scenarios.
Its clear that the two people involved already knew each other, had worked together before, were both invited in some way to be there by GENCON and were both put in the same hotel room.
But which of the two is the case:
1) GENCON required that volunteers or whatever share hotel rooms, and these two people who already knew each other both CHOSE to share a room together?
or
2) GENCON requires that volunteers share hotel rooms, and these two people were ASSIGNED to share a room together, and both just happened to know each other?
Because in fact those are two very different scenarios as per GENCON's policy/responsibility.
From what I understood the rooms were assigned by GenCon. If they REQUIRE the room sharing is beyond what I know and what was shared about this issue.
I don't KNOW which one of those is true, have you read the link? Can you elucidate from that what case it was?
No, I honestly don't know either. It's not very clear from the victim's account, whether they were just told by Gencon "you're sharing a room with this person" who they happened to have some previous acquaintance with, or if they volunteered/agreed to share the room with that person in some way.
Right, and my commentary was me being sarcastic towards hoshicommie.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 14, 2022, 04:20:44 PM
Right, and my commentary was me being sarcastic towards hoshicommie.
Oh, I wasn't sure about my views before, but now I know better. I have never before bested by such masterful technique. How could I have been so foolish?In all seriousness, you're making fun of me by saying something I've been saying all along myself.
Two adults consented to a situation that they knew about in advance, she made it clear in her story that she knew about the roommate situation in advance. I would have thought that folks would be in favor of adults being permitted to do what the hell they want.
No one has argued that the attacker should face consequences, no one has argued about the victim being a victim.
Quote from: jeff37923 on August 14, 2022, 11:44:52 AM
Quote from: Koltar on August 13, 2022, 05:44:46 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on August 13, 2022, 04:18:00 PM
Or you can do a quick cost/benefit analysis and then just choose not to go. That is the route that I have chosen. GenCon has demonstrated that they do not like my kind (and will not provide a worthwhile environment for the price), so I feel no need to give them money.
In my case I have only been able to 'afford' it the last 4 or 5 times I went because a friend lets me stay in her room. There are also 3 or 4 other friends of hers sharing the room(s) - but I've grown to trust them. The small irony is that she and I first met when we were both in costume way back in 2000, and for three years we had no idea what each other looked like as a 'Human'.
If I didn't have that option of an almost free room space and roommates I trust - then I would not go.
- Ed C.
The lady who was sexually assaulted stayed in that room for free too. That was was how she got sexually assaulted by a trans, because the GenCon official in charge of room assignments placed her there thinking it was safe because male-to-female trans = female ib fucked up woke math.
I've stayed in a room for free from GenCon, though this was many years ago. If it's still like they did it back then, GenCon doesn't really "assign" you to much of anything. They just give you the information on how to make the reservations on their account and the hotel(s) information, and then you make the arrangements. Based on what this person said, it sounds like her and the trans woman she stayed with, who had been working together for years, made the arrangements together to stay in that room together, on GenCon's account.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 14, 2022, 08:09:21 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 14, 2022, 04:20:44 PM
Right, and my commentary was me being sarcastic towards hoshicommie.
Oh, I wasn't sure about my views before, but now I know better. I have never before bested by such masterful technique. How could I have been so foolish?
In all seriousness, you're making fun of me by saying something I've been saying all along myself.
Two adults consented to a situation that they knew about in advance, she made it clear in her story that she knew about the roommate situation in advance. I would have thought that folks would be in favor of adults being permitted to do what the hell they want.
No one has argued that the attacker should face consequences, no one has argued about the victim being a victim.
Folks are in favor of CONSENTING adults doing whatever among themselves. Key word CONSENTING. Lets say she knew or maybe even did the arrangements to share the room with the guy. That doesn't mean she consented to him trying to rape her.
Bolded part: WHAT THE FUCK are you smoking!?
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 15, 2022, 05:43:44 PM
Folks are in favor of CONSENTING adults doing whatever among themselves. Key word CONSENTING. Lets say she knew or maybe even did the arrangements to share the room with the guy. That doesn't mean she consented to him trying to rape her.
Bolded part: WHAT THE FUCK are you smoking!?
Can I just say you're doing it again.
You're restating my argument for me, and then pretending that it's not what I said.
Two adults consented to a situation, one of them did something that was wrong, that one should face consequences.
Who says Daisy shouldn't face consequences? I didn't.
"What the fuck am I smoking?"
Either you are intentionally not reading my posts or you're intentionally misreading them, since you just keep restating my points. In either case, you do it again, I'll know for sure you have no intent to argue points in good faith, so I won't need to worry about the actual words of your posts.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 15, 2022, 08:57:40 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 15, 2022, 05:43:44 PM
Folks are in favor of CONSENTING adults doing whatever among themselves. Key word CONSENTING. Lets say she knew or maybe even did the arrangements to share the room with the guy. That doesn't mean she consented to him trying to rape her.
Bolded part: WHAT THE FUCK are you smoking!?
Can I just say you're doing it again.
You're restating my argument for me, and then pretending that it's not what I said.
Two adults consented to a situation, one of them did something that was wrong, that one should face consequences.
Who says Daisy shouldn't face consequences? I didn't.
"What the fuck am I smoking?"
Either you are intentionally not reading my posts or you're intentionally misreading them, since you just keep restating my points. In either case, you do it again, I'll know for sure you have no intent to argue points in good faith, so I won't need to worry about the actual words of your posts.
Geeky takes things VERY literally much of the time.
I think your last sentence meant to say "nobody is arguing the attacker should NOT face consequences..." because I initially read it that way and then went back and realized it was written without the "not."
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 15, 2022, 11:41:26 PM
Geeky takes things VERY literally much of the time.
I think your last sentence meant to say "nobody is arguing the attacker should NOT face consequences..." because I initially read it that way and then went back and realized it was written without the "not."
Ah, see, I thought it was clear, but apparently I missed the colon or comma I meant to have. It does make it mean what I didn't mean, I was intending something like: "No one is arguing: the attacker should face consequences, the victim is a victim."
Regardless, like I had said, it's pretty clear in all my past messages that I've consistently said that. Heck, I took time to add the disclaimer in some of the posts where I thought it was already clear. Just to be that extra explicit.
So I think it's less that he's "too literal" and more that he's "more interested in making a joke than making a point." I mean, like I said, I was stunned by the brilliant turn of phrase "hoshiscommie."
I try to avoid painting folks all with the same brush, I recognize the struggle, sometimes it's hard, especially in a forum where you can't see the faces to differentiate folks.
I know from past experience, there will be people who get what I am saying, even if they don't agree, they at least recognize a point. I argue for those folks, y'know?
I often get asked here "Why do you come here where people hate you?" Because I don't think that everyone hates me. Hell, I am that geeky kid in school that got picked on constantly, I'm used to it. I bet a lot of the rest of you were the same. So, I can operate just fine with a bunch of people mocking me, I figure one or two of you might get my point.
But as an aside, for the folks that are intentionally misrepresenting my arguments just to score internet points that no one keeps track of: I hereby grant you an infinite amount of those points. You win, ok?
Lets see if it's me "being TOO literall" or maybe you don't know how to English, or maybe there's another correct grammar and redaction rules in English I'm not aware off (what with it not being my mother tongue and all).
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 14, 2022, 08:09:21 PM
No one has argued that the attacker should face consequences, no one has argued about the victim being a victim.
Bolding mine. How can you, with a straight face, pretend this can ever mean what you write below (and that I will put in bold)?
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 15, 2022, 11:55:11 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 15, 2022, 11:41:26 PM
Geeky takes things VERY literally much of the time.
I think your last sentence meant to say "nobody is arguing the attacker should NOT face consequences..." because I initially read it that way and then went back and realized it was written without the "not."
Ah, see, I thought it was clear, but apparently I missed the colon or comma I meant to have. It does make it mean what I didn't mean, I was intending something like: "No one is arguing: the attacker should face consequences, the victim is a victim."
No, you didn't miss a colon or a comma, you "missed" words. Let me put it below how you would have wrote it IF you meant to say what you now claim you meant.
No one has argued that the attacker should NOT face consequences, no one has argued about the victim NOT being a victim.Italics and underscore to make it even more visible.
Now, IF you meant to put the NOT both times all fine and dandy, you just need to recognize that your comment BEFORE HappyDaze intervention is flawed and that you done fucked up.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 16, 2022, 01:14:42 AM
Lets see if it's me "being TOO literall" or maybe you don't know how to English, or maybe there's another correct grammar and redaction rules in English I'm not aware off (what with it not being my mother tongue and all).
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 14, 2022, 08:09:21 PM
No one has argued that the attacker should face consequences, no one has argued about the victim being a victim.
Bolding mine. How can you, with a straight face, pretend this can ever mean what you write below (and that I will put in bold)?
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 15, 2022, 11:55:11 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 15, 2022, 11:41:26 PM
Geeky takes things VERY literally much of the time.
I think your last sentence meant to say "nobody is arguing the attacker should NOT face consequences..." because I initially read it that way and then went back and realized it was written without the "not."
Ah, see, I thought it was clear, but apparently I missed the colon or comma I meant to have. It does make it mean what I didn't mean, I was intending something like: "No one is arguing: the attacker should face consequences, the victim is a victim."
No, you didn't miss a colon or a comma, you "missed" words. Let me put it below how you would have wrote it IF you meant to say what you now claim you meant.
No one has argued that the attacker should NOT face consequences, no one has argued about the victim NOT being a victim.
Italics and underscore to make it even more visible.
Now, IF you meant to put the NOT both times all fine and dandy, you just need to recognize that your comment BEFORE HappyDaze intervention is flawed and that you done fucked up.
Greetings!
BOOM! *Brutal* *Laughing* ;D
Excellente Ingles, Hermano!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on August 16, 2022, 01:31:02 AM
Greetings!
BOOM! *Brutal* *Laughing* ;D
Excellente Ingles, Hermano!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
It's maddening, how he wrote it it means no one is saying the would be rapist should be punished and that the victim isn't such.
But he claims he's saying the exact opposite.
Insert "English Motherfucker" meme gif.
And I agree, no one has said the would be rapist isn't such, hoshishabi has only equated what the dude did to putting your arm on a woman's shoulder, in public, with several other people around, and then offering a cigarrete.
He also has said the would be rapist is a woman, because in his woke koolaid addled mind women can have a penis.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 16, 2022, 01:44:42 AM
It's maddening, how he wrote it it means no one is saying the would be rapist should be punished and that the victim isn't such.
But he claims he's saying the exact opposite.
Insert "English Motherfucker" meme gif.
And I agree, no one has said the would be rapist isn't such, hoshishabi has only equated what the dude did to putting your arm on a woman's shoulder, in public, with several other people around, and then offering a cigarrete.
He also has said the would be rapist is a woman, because in his woke koolaid addled mind women can have a penis.
I've written more than one post, in every single one of them I've talked about how Daisy should face consequences.
You read them and replied to them, so you know that.
The sentence where I missed punctuation doesn't make sense being interpreted the way that you did, because the final clause doesn't agree with the first clause.
I assume you're not incapable of understanding such a thing, given that others had no difficulty.
So at this point I assume you're just being a troll.
So, I suspect you care less about your own point than making a joke that isn't particularly funny.
Do you care so little for your own viewpoint that you'll disregard your real logic, to just say "SEE! I said that's what he meant" despite me telling you in explicit detail in EVERY OTHER POST, even the ones that come after, that your interpretation isn't my actual viewpoint, that you'll just do a little victory lap?
Like I said: you win the internet points you're looking for. In the meantime, I'll reply to you the way I've replied to others.
Since you don't care enough about your words to take them seriously, I'll accept your judgement and stop caring about them too.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 16, 2022, 08:41:04 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 16, 2022, 01:44:42 AM
It's maddening, how he wrote it it means no one is saying the would be rapist should be punished and that the victim isn't such.
But he claims he's saying the exact opposite.
Insert "English Motherfucker" meme gif.
And I agree, no one has said the would be rapist isn't such, hoshishabi has only equated what the dude did to putting your arm on a woman's shoulder, in public, with several other people around, and then offering a cigarrete.
He also has said the would be rapist is a woman, because in his woke koolaid addled mind women can have a penis.
I've written more than one post, in every single one of them I've talked about how Daisy should face consequences.
You read them and replied to them, so you know that.
The sentence where I missed punctuation doesn't make sense being interpreted the way that you did, because the final clause doesn't agree with the first clause.
I assume you're not incapable of understanding such a thing, given that others had no difficulty.
So at this point I assume you're just being a troll.
So, I suspect you care less about your own point than making a joke that isn't particularly funny.
Do you care so little for your own viewpoint that you'll disregard your real logic, to just say "SEE! I said that's what he meant" despite me telling you in explicit detail in EVERY OTHER POST, even the ones that come after, that your interpretation isn't my actual viewpoint, that you'll just do a little victory lap?
Like I said: you win the internet points you're looking for. In the meantime, I'll reply to you the way I've replied to others.
Since you don't care enough about your words to take them seriously, I'll accept your judgement and stop caring about them too.
"No, no I totally wrote it correctly!"
If you can't recognize where you fucked up and it must be someone else's fault I have no interest in talking to you hoshiecommie.
After all you're desperate to deny the would be rapist is a man.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 16, 2022, 10:39:31 AM
Your words are like poetry. I have never heard such beautiful language and there should be classes that teach the perfectly rhythmic construction that is your art.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 16, 2022, 10:52:28 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 16, 2022, 10:39:31 AM
Your words are like poetry. I have never heard such beautiful language and there should be classes that teach the perfectly rhythmic construction that is your art.
I think you forgot "not" a few times again. 8)
Quote from: S'mon on August 13, 2022, 02:02:04 AM
Just checked ENW - I could not find a thread about this, though there is one about number of visitors at Gencon, whereas sexual harrassment that fits The Narrative, like Bill Webb's behaviour, always gets tons of attention. ...
They have one now, days after the fact. With a bunch of dummies wondering why it hasn't exploded into a mega-thread the way this kind of thing normally does over there.
An Idiot in the thread answered his own question without realizing it:
Quote from: The Idiot"This one hits really close to home for me because the perpetrator, Daisy Grant, is a trans woman, and has committed these actions at a time when political and media institutions are desperate to paint all trans people in general, and all trans women in specific, as sexual predators. And... nobody's talking about it. Despite it happening at one the biggest events in our hobby, featuring folks associated with one of the largest third party publishers for D&D right now. It's almost eerie, considering how these types of incidents almost always spark Discourse™ in a major way whenever they happen. And I'm flabbergasted as what to make of it."
Apparently the cognitive dissonance bell had been rung quite hard this time...
Nobody's talking about it because no one wants to be seen to speak out about someone that was very explicitly "one of them", and run the risk of going against "The Narrative".
Kind of like how Marion Zimmer Bradley has been largely memory-holed by leftist fantasy fans that used to love her 'trailblazing' feminist works...
What they choose
Not to talk about is every bit an important part of the Narrative toolbox as what they choose to overtly censor.
So the same event where a game about thirsty lesbians ran off with Product of the Year, an actual thirsty lesbian ran around committing sexual assault. I don't think #GenCon could have come up with a worse look if they tried.
First things first, I do not hold them accountable for the room assignments, as there was no previous indication it would be an issue, and the victim (little_red_dot (https://archive.ph/Ud7yH)) trusted the assailant (AWiseArtist) enough to
accept it.
What I do hold them accountable for is not having a spare hotel room available for situations like this after all their talk of providing safe spaces. I do hold them accountable for allowing the assailant to not just attend the rest of the con, but continue operating as part of their stream team, forcing the victim to work around that. I do hold them accountable for allowing the assailant to attend a #GenCon staff afterparty where at least two additional assaults (Superdillin (https://archive.ph/5UPlo), RekItRaven (https://archive.ph/l23QM)) took place.
Quote from: DocJones on August 13, 2022, 11:06:49 AM
That flies in the face of how GenCon treats accusations of misconduct against straight white men, in which GenCon immediately escorts them out of the convention and releases public statements deploring their behavior.
Depends on when those accusations were made, as even Jeremy Hambly and Matt Loter were able to attend the con in full and banned after the fact.
Quote from: Zalman on August 12, 2022, 02:27:08 PM
It's not about the abuser in this case being "man" or "woman", IMO, it's more about them being "trans", because if you start with the assumption that men and women can act the very same way and do the very same things regardless of gender, then the only point in being "trans" is a sexual one. Wanting to be "treated like a woman" has only a sexual context, if we espouse the belief that all genders should be treated the same way in every other aspect. In that respect, being "trans" is demanding that your sexual proclivities be entertained by the public at large.
So the question I think, and the feeling about GenCon "putting men and women in the same room", is more about GenCon deciding to have people who are already making public sexual demands of others (i.e. demanding to be called "woman") bunking together with those that would rather not be a part of their sexual proclivities.
And this is where things get complicated.
I have no doubt the assailant's trans status provides a level of protection against accusations. Hell there are sites where I literally cannot post about this because of that. And I have no doubt their transition is driven at least in part by sexual fetish. None. But not all transfolk are like this, the majority realize there's a difference between men and women that goes beyond mere sexuality, and none are more likely to commit sexual assault than anyone else.
This issue needs to be approached with a level of nuance no one seems willing to, and abusers will always take advantage of marginalized identities to cause harm.
Quote from: Koltar on August 13, 2022, 09:36:26 PM
Does the incident or event impact or affect the average gamer at Gen Con ?
At Gen con next year?
Or does it impact any average gamer anywhere?
Not really?
But that can be said of most crime, and if nothing is done it could get to the point that it does.
Gen con not at fault IMO, however no intent to victim blame here, but the pady deciding to room with a person who clearly demonstrates mental illness was not great discretion.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan on August 20, 2022, 10:34:34 AM
So the same event where a game about thirsty lesbians ran off with Product of the Year, an actual thirsty lesbian ran around committing sexual assault. I don't think #GenCon could have come up with a worse look if they tried.
She could have used a sword?
Quote from: Anon Adderlan on August 20, 2022, 10:34:34 AM
I have no doubt the assailant's trans status provides a level of protection against accusations. Hell there are sites where I literally cannot post about this because of that. And I have no doubt their transition is driven at least in part by sexual fetish. None. But not all transfolk are like this, the majority realize there's a difference between men and women that goes beyond mere sexuality, and none are more likely to commit sexual assault than anyone else.
This issue needs to be approached with a level of nuance no one seems willing to, and abusers will always take advantage of marginalized identities to cause harm.
Fair points. Still, I can't shake the feeling that the sexual fetish aspect is something GenCon (in particular) might want to take into account when evaluating gender-based room assignments. Of course, there's lots more they could consider but probably won't: most men aren't abusers either, but they still separate men from women. Is their separation policy really intended to be gender-based, or rather based on biological sex? If it is gender-based, are trans-women and cis-women really the same gender?
Quote from: SHARK on August 13, 2022, 08:56:28 PM
Well, anyone that believes that the abuser is a "woman" must be an absolutely delusional moron. The abuser is a *man* that was wearing a dress and a fucking wig.
Geesus. It is so sad and pathetic that our society has become so mentally infantile and delusional.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
This is it right here and really there need be no more discussion. They thought it would be fine to put a mentally ill man with a proclivity for getting wasted and doing stupid stuff in a room with a woman with whom he was already well-acquainted. I'm guessing Gen Con hasn't checked the date rape statistics lately. It is utterly insane the mental gymnastics people are going through. Man, woman, alcohol, bad behavior. Just call it what it is.
I'm not denying the existence of trans people out there, though I promise I'll never get it. But in this case it's just a dude riding the wave of the latest "cool" and he acted out. It makes me want to scream.
The fact that the trans community is about 99% men pretending to be women (yes, I made up that statistic, see Mark Twain) should raise eyebrows. They are weak men looking for a simpler way in life and deciding they're women and we all have to be nice to them now. F*** that. Hold him accountable like you would anyone else, Gen Con. And admit your own culpability in the process.
Here's me not holding my breath.
I don't see it mentioned here, but I saw on ENWorld that Kobold Press terminated their relationships with Daisy Grant. Here's the quote:
Quote from: Kobold PressUpon the conclusion of our investigation, we terminated all relationships with Daisy Grant effective immediately. Her behavior at Gen Con was unacceptable and we cannot support or condone what she did. Our thoughts are with the people she hurt. As a company, we are revisiting a convention code of conduct for all our staff and affiliates. Due to the sensitive nature of the situation, and in respect for those who are hurting, we will not be going into further detail.
Source: https://www.enworld.org/threads/gen-con-daisy-sleeping-in-the-lobby-and-all-that.690704/
As for Gen Con management, my understanding is that the two were voluntarily rooming together. So I don't see that they had cause to act in advance. After it happened, they should investigate and get statements from both sides and supporting statements.
Quote from: Brooding Paladin on August 20, 2022, 05:12:46 PM
The fact that the trans community is about 99% men pretending to be women (yes, I made up that statistic, see Mark Twain) should raise eyebrows. They are weak men looking for a simpler way in life and deciding they're women and we all have to be nice to them now. F*** that. Hold him accountable like you would anyone else, Gen Con. And admit your own culpability in the process.
The majority of the transgender people I know today were assigned female at birth. From current survey of the U.S., what I see is roughly equal numbers.
QuoteOf the 1.3 million adults who identify as transgender, 38.5% (515,200) are transgender women, 35.9% (480,000) are transgender men, and 25.6% (341,800) reported they are gender nonconforming.
Source: https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/
I understand that worldwide transgender women are significantly more common, but that's not what's relevant for Gen Con. Obviously, regardless of whatever gender they are, whoever is accused of sexual assault should be investigated and punished if found guilty.
Fair enough. I withdraw my admittedly ridiculous made up percentage since you spent the energy to prove it was made up.
I still mean the rest of it. ;D
And thanks for the update from KP. Glad to see them bringing the accountability.
The FtMs seem to be causing much less trouble than the MtFs, which is probably skewing perception of their numbers. A woman in pants with short hair is not particularly noteworthy or uncommon, so a FtM walking down the street is likely to be overlooked regardless of whether the viewer thinks she's a man or a woman. A man in a wig and a skirt, on the other hand, is extremely noticeable unless he's doing a great job of looking like a woman, and most MtFs are not doing great jobs of looking like women. Especially since many of them seem to have the fashion sense of a circus clown and roll out of the house in some garish neon-colored eye-searing abomination.
All that said, I don't personally care if a guy wants to go out looking like a clown stripper. As a grown adult that's their every right to do, and they shouldn't be in danger of having their asses kicked on the sidewalk for being strange, people ought to leave them alone. My issue is that this particular one got extremely rapey with three separate women and is appearing to just coast with little to no repercussion involved. One publisher disowning him and he deleting his twitter account is hardly befitting the crimes.
FtM trans people are much less likely to engage in sexual assault than a typical man, while mtf trans people are much more likely to commit assault than a typical woman. Funny how that works, huh?
Also, the number of FtM have gone up significantly in the English speaking world at least, mainly due to "sudden onset gender dysphoria", which is a strange medical condition affecting mostly teenage biological females who never showed the slightest proclivity toward gender dysphoria until they got on places like tumblr and tiktok and saw a bunch of teenage FtM saying how cool and amazing it is and how it solves all the awkward problems of being a teenage girl. Entire groups of teenage girl friends go from not being the slightest bit dysphoric to all demanding they get their breasts removed. It's almost like it's become a fad or a fashion, but of course that can't possibly be true because it's a thought crime against diversity to even suggest such a thing, even if refusing to acknowledge reality in this case makes a complete mockery of actual gender dysphoria and will probably result in tens of thousands of future lawsuits and ruined lives because suddenly responsible adults (parents, teachers and doctors) all fell prey to ideological fashion and did nothing or even encouraged teenage girls who weren't actually transgendered at all to do something irreversible to their lives and bodies.
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 22, 2022, 04:26:23 AM
FtM trans people are much less likely to engage in sexual assault than a typical man, while mtf trans people are much more likely to commit assault than a typical woman. Funny how that works, huh?
Also, the number of FtM have gone up significantly in the English speaking world at least, mainly due to "sudden onset gender dysphoria", which is a strange medical condition affecting mostly teenage biological females who never showed the slightest proclivity toward gender dysphoria until they got on places like tumblr and tiktok and saw a bunch of teenage FtM saying how cool and amazing it is and how it solves all the awkward problems of being a teenage girl. Entire groups of teenage girl friends go from not being the slightest bit dysphoric to all demanding they get their breasts removed. It's almost like it's become a fad or a fashion, but of course that can't possibly be true because it's a thought crime against diversity to even suggest such a thing, even if refusing to acknowledge reality in this case makes a complete mockery of actual gender dysphoria and will probably result in tens of thousands of future lawsuits and ruined lives because suddenly responsible adults (parents, teachers and doctors) all fell prey to ideological fashion and did nothing or even encouraged teenage girls who weren't actually transgendered at all to do something irreversible to their lives and bodies.
This is getting very much off topic, but if you'd be willing to share your sources for the above over in your own part of the forum, I would be interested in seeing them.
In the past, fads and fashions involved bad taste in music and clothes and maybe RPGs. In time, most moved on to less embarrassing choices.
The current fad for chopping body parts off for internet points isn't quite so easy to reverse. I think the next 5-10 years - maybe less - will see some serious regrets at irreversible surgery.
Quote from: Mistwell on August 20, 2022, 01:04:22 PM
Quote from: Anon Adderlan on August 20, 2022, 10:34:34 AM
So the same event where a game about thirsty lesbians ran off with Product of the Year, an actual thirsty lesbian ran around committing sexual assault. I don't think #GenCon could have come up with a worse look if they tried.
She could have used a sword?
Maybe she was doing Thirsty Sword-Lesbian LARP?
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 22, 2022, 04:26:23 AM
Also, the number of FtM have gone up significantly in the English speaking world at least, mainly due to "sudden onset gender dysphoria", which is a strange medical condition affecting mostly teenage biological females who never showed the slightest proclivity toward gender dysphoria until they got on places like tumblr and tiktok and saw a bunch of teenage FtM saying how cool and amazing it is and how it solves all the awkward problems of being a teenage girl.
In the mean dirty streets of reality we just say: "grooming".
I actually know several people whose daughters grew up with mine, that went this exact route... And the drama is intense. Especially on the now-rare occasions we get together and Uncle Tenbones is forced to give the straight-talk as it's the only vernacular I'm capable of with those in my orbit. It's sad, disappointing and I can't say not a little maddening that family friends would let this happen to their own children.
FtM teenage girls are the eating disorder of the 2020s. Teenagers are miserable about their bodies and their self-image, news at 11. And you'll notice that stuff like anorexia and bulemia have gone waaaaay over to the sidelines in the last few years. The difference being that if your daughter was starving herself in 2020, she wasn't being encouraged to do so by the media and 'science'. I agree with Pundit, there's going to be a nasty reckoning down the road for people who participated in this, sadly far too late to stop hundreds of girls from mutilating themselves.
I don't intend to blame the victim, but she is not without some responsibility.
The victims statement says the two have been "friends" for years and the attack was a long uncomfortable hug and not what Whoopie would consider rape-rape. There is a good chance the roommates were given the chance to veto room selections and the friends declined. There is a really good chance the victim virtue signaled a level of friendship/comfort that didn't exist and the attacker misjudged the relationship. The last two are speculation of course, until more info comes out that's all we have.
I think virtue signaling leftism was more responsible than Gen Con.
Question for the more legally minded folks. What would a prosecuting attorney make of the crime if the victim reported it to the police and was desperate to prosecute?
I know universities would kick the attacker off campus, and companies would distance themselves or fire them (as appears to have happened) but what would the law do? And should the law be changed?
I'm giving a lot of leeway here because I was the one who veered off topic. That said, while everyone posting thus far gets a free pass, I expect this thread to go back onto the topic of Gencon.
Quote from: Ruprecht on August 23, 2022, 10:24:35 AM
I don't intend to blame the victim, but she is not without some responsibility.
The victims statement says the two have been "friends" for years and the attack was a long uncomfortable hug and not what Whoopie would consider rape-rape. There is a good chance the roommates were given the chance to veto room selections and the friends declined. There is a really good chance the victim virtue signaled a level of friendship/comfort that didn't exist and the attacker misjudged the relationship. The last two are speculation of course, until more info comes out that's all we have.
I think virtue signaling leftism was more responsible than Gen Con.
Given two other people were similarly "approached" by them during the same GenCon, sometimes mere minutes after an incident with this person, I am guessing this was not the case. This was alcohol and horniness. It sure seems like, if you had a pulse and were present and willing to talk to them in the most basic of acquaintance level ways, they were hitting on you.
It's now been over three months and #GenCon has yet to make a statement on the matter.
Imagine my shock.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan on December 02, 2022, 07:20:12 AM
It's now been over three months and #GenCon has yet to make a statement on the matter.
Imagine my shock.
They are in a no-win of their own creation. If they don't speak, they're endorsing violence against women. If they do speak, they're encouraging violence against transwomen.
Live by the sword, die by the sword. That people never notice progressives are hungriest for their own always amazes me.
Quote from: PulpHerb on December 02, 2022, 04:45:51 PM
Quote from: Anon Adderlan on December 02, 2022, 07:20:12 AM
It's now been over three months and #GenCon has yet to make a statement on the matter.
Imagine my shock.
They are in a no-win of their own creation. If they don't speak, they're endorsing violence against women. If they do speak, they're encouraging violence against transwomen.
Live by the sword, die by the sword. That people never notice progressives are hungriest for their own always amazes me.
But is anyone actually making any noise over GenCon's non-response? Stalling for time and being non-responsive can be effective. GenCon can hope this is one bad actor, now removed, without having to address the rooming situation. Now, if there's a second incident in the next year or two they probably can't continue to be non-responsive, but I bet they'd be willing to risk it to avoid having to make a declarative statement one way or the other.
Oh come on. We all knew they would do something like this.
SOP when one of their own gets caught is to just wait and eventually the cult will forget and move on to the next outrage.
Yeah, being quiet and hoping it blows over is exactly what they're doing and likely to succeed. Rapey dude has doubtless been told to lay low for a few years, the women have been told he won't be back so please don't mention it further, now all they have to do is wait for the mayfly's memory of the public to run out.
Not to mention relying on making it unwelcoming to those not willing to follow this week's marching orders for several years now.
I used to dream of going one year. Now, like SF-fandom, I'm glad I never did.