Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:44:32 PM
I don't tend to see a post about things like any number of past incidents where some loutish dude gets drunk and gropes a woman in an elevator or a bar

You mean at GenCon? This is a gaming forum. As they relate to gaming, I've certainly seen such posts.

Also, there's a huge difference between getting groped in an elevator, and getting assaulted in your own hotel room. This woman at GenCon had no safe place to retreat to and lock the door.

Your posts are completely disingenuous and full of non-sequiturs.

But yes, I am definitely the one being bold enough to say that a person who demands that the unconsenting public engage with their sexuality is inherently higher risk. That applies to trans folks at GenCon just as much as it would apply to someone who demanded that everyone call him "Master" because he likes that sort of thing in the bedroom.

Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 02:46:08 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 11:18:56 AM

Quote from: S'mon on August 12, 2022, 07:58:46 AM

Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 06:44:32 AM
How did GenCon enable the alleged events? Serious question.

The enabling was by whoever put the trans in with the real woman, and whoever pressured or fooled the real woman into thinking this was safe and right. I doubt that Gencon did anything.

Well, since both were working for GenCon, guess who put them together? GenCon! Thus, by doing so SOME might say (because my lawyer tells me I must not assert anything) they enabled the situation. Furthermore, when she told some higher up they didn't call the police, expell the culprit, changed room arrangements or anything. The woman was forced to sleep in a conference room (IIRC) away from her would be rapist.

Given all of that some people MIGHT be of the OPINION that it's at least partly GenCon's fault.

Thanks for the explanation. That was totally my miss. When I read the original note on archive, the initial part about being assigned a room by GenCon was obscured by an ad I could not dismiss. It appears GenCon would hold some culpability in this case.

Wait, I missed that post originally.  That's not correct, go back and read Dot's message.

Quote
For GenCon 2022 I was assigned a room with Daisy also known as /AWiseArtist online. This room assignment was provided as part of the exchange for working with the GenCon Stream Team. Daisy and I have worked together in many capacities and for many years in the TTRPG professional setting. As part of that, we have served on the GenCon Stream Team for four years together, and she has mentored me professionally in many ways. She has always been nothing but supportive and respectful... until this year's GenCon.

There's also text beyond that where she talks about them communicating prior to GenCon. She did not show up at the convention to be surprised by this situation, she agreed to it. 

You'll have to ask her for more details about whether she had any concerns about the arrangement, but this was not a situation where GenCon put two strangers together. Or where they provided pressure for something that she expressed any concern about. Given her later "thank you" to the GenCon team for helping her, I expect that it is not the case.


As far as this claim:

Quote
Furthermore, when she told some higher up they didn't call the police, expell the culprit, changed room arrangements or anything. The woman was forced to sleep in a conference room (IIRC) away from her would be rapist.

This is at odds with what Dot actually said:

Quote
I slept a few hours in the lobby of the Westin until I could contact the Steam Team Lead and ask him to let me in the streaming room early so I could sleep on the couch before my 9:30am shift on Sunday. During this time I expressed to the Team Lead what happened in detail and my uncomfortably. In response, he offered me his room to sleep in on Sunday so that I was safe. I took him up on this offer

She later added

Quote
I want to give a shout-out to my Stream Team lead for stepping up to help me out and feel safe. They even went as far as to let me off my Sunday shift early, so Daisy and I didn't have to share a workspace after what happened on Saturday night. Please know that GenCon is currently accepting ANY and ALL incident reports from the week. You can submit those to policyteam@gencon.com. I hope these complaints prompt GenCon to take the actions necessary to bring some closure to those hurt.

So, I would say that this isn't a case where she is unhappy with GenCon.

Quote from: Zalman on August 12, 2022, 02:50:29 PM
You mean at GenCon? This is a gaming forum. As they relate to gaming, I've certainly seen such posts.

Also, there's a huge difference between getting groped in an elevator, and getting assaulted in your own hotel room. This woman at GenCon had no safe place to retreat to and lock the door.

Your posts are completely disingenuous and full of non-sequiturs.

But yes, I am definitely the one being bold enough to say that a person who demands that the unconsenting public engage with their sexuality are inherently higher risk.

I'm not being "disingenuous"  and my posts are not non-sequiturs.

I'm saying I'd be glad for you to search through this forum's posts and show me this forum's IMMENSE CONCERN for the safety of women. I would imagine since you and I both agree that this is a problem in past conventions that either I will see a TON of posts about these past incidents.

Or this particular incident is unusual because there is a transwoman as the attacker.

But, perhaps it's not me that is being disingenuous.

Perhaps many only show concern about women in situations like this, where it involves criticism of a transwoman, then perhaps it's better to just leave women out of it. Just make a thread about what you're actually concerned about.

Women tend to make bad props, you know, with being human and all and having their own agenda.

Which... Let's see Dot talk about how she feels about the fact that Daisy was trans. Because I've yet to see her even mention it. Not a single mention.

Yet, she was perfectly happy to bring up what had happened.

So... Might as well argue the points you actually make.

Else, the next time I see an allegation towards a man at a gaming convention, I really look forward to your concern and efforts to help reduce such things in the future.

But hey, maybe y'all are really concerned about making sure our conventions are safe for women. I'll look forward to you providing me a list of some past threads on this forum where folks argue passionately about the topic.

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
Which... Let's see Dot talk about how she feels about the fact that Daisy was trans.

It's irrelevant how Dot feels. Perfect example of a non-sequitur.

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
the next time I see an allegation towards a man at a gaming convention, I really look forward to your concern and efforts to help reduce such things in the future.

But hey, maybe y'all are really concerned about making sure our conventions are safe for women. I'll look forward to you providing me a list of some past threads on this forum where folks argue passionately about the topic.

My own concern is about everyone's safety at gaming conventions, regardless of the gender of the victim or the attacker.

You're welcome to stalk me on this forum for those events (or search for those already here). Have at it!

Unless I'm misremembering significantly, the men accused of impropriety in past gatherings were not accused of pinning women down in beds nor of grabbing their heads and twisting them around to try to kiss them on the mouth while they struggled.  One was accused of asking a woman out in an elevator, which is neither illegal nor unethical in any way, one was accused of trying to send secret messages of a desire for sex to a woman via keys in cigarette boxes, which could be illegal if consummated in adultery, depending on the state, but was not.  And a lot of "so and so made me uncomfortable".

It is not rocket science to work out why men being dragged for scummy yet legal behavior is not being given a high priority versus this man who broke several laws in forcefully overpowering women to try to make them kiss or otherwise sexually engage with him.  You may attempt to claim that both of these things are apples, but one is clearly an orange.

Quote from: Valatar on August 12, 2022, 03:13:07 PM
Unless I'm misremembering significantly, the men accused of impropriety in past gatherings were not accused of pinning women down in beds nor of grabbing their heads and twisting them around to try to kiss them on the mouth while they struggled.  One was accused of asking a woman out in an elevator, which is neither illegal nor unethical in any way, one was accused of trying to send secret messages of a desire for sex to a woman via keys in cigarette boxes, which could be illegal if consummated in adultery, depending on the state, but was not.  And a lot of "so and so made me uncomfortable".

It is not rocket science to work out why men being dragged for scummy yet legal behavior is not being given a high priority versus this man who broke several laws in forcefully overpowering women to try to make them kiss or otherwise sexually engage with him.  You may attempt to claim that both of these things are apples, but one is clearly an orange.

One man tried to drag a woman into his hotel room after she declined an offer to go into his room for a cup of coffee. She physically resisted and was only able to break free after another man witnessed it and asked him what was going on.

But, you know, that dude didn't get cancelled.

I mean, I see a lot of these threads in other forums when they happen, I just don't think I see them in THIS forum when they happen.

Are y'all just SUDDENLY becoming interested in making sure our conventions are a safe environment for women? Because, I've really seen a lot of criticism for conventions going woke when they start writing up codes of conduct talking about making shared spaces safe.

If that's the case, then good on y'all, I'm looking forward to seeing you calling for consequences for the next dude that pulls a woman in for a kiss that she wants, or dragging them into their hotel room, or drugging them or ...

I mean, Blizzard is being investigated for these things. Let's check to see what you guys had to say about the allegations that came out about Blizzard having a "Cosby Room" and trying to get women drunk to lower their inhibitions so they could drag them to that room.

Quote from: Zalman on August 12, 2022, 03:10:23 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
Which... Let's see Dot talk about how she feels about the fact that Daisy was trans.

It's irrelevant how Dot feels. Perfect example of a non-sequitur.

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
the next time I see an allegation towards a man at a gaming convention, I really look forward to your concern and efforts to help reduce such things in the future.

But hey, maybe y'all are really concerned about making sure our conventions are safe for women. I'll look forward to you providing me a list of some past threads on this forum where folks argue passionately about the topic.

My own concern is about everyone's safety at gaming conventions, regardless of the gender of the victim or the attacker.

You're welcome to stalk me on this forum for those events (or search for those already here). Have at it!

Perhaps I use a different definition of non-sequiter than you do.

From what I understand, it's an irrelevent comment that doesn't pertain to the conversation at hand. So, Dot, who is the victim, had been assaulted.

We're talking about her treatment and how she feels afterwards, and what we can do to ensure that events are safer in the future for her.

She did not feel unsafe because of the gender identity of her attacker, and in fact, never mentioned it or really thinks it had anything to do with what happened.

So, in my opinion, it warranted mentioning.

So... What do you feel about Blizzcon?  I mean, this is all coming out in an investigation.  Were you REALLY INTO that thread, talking about how horrific the reports were that came out about what happened at past Blizzcons, where very serious things happened?

I mean, you are seriously concerned about a woman being pinned down in a bed, so I'm sure that the Blizzard investigation has to have you furious.

Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 06:44:32 AM
How did GenCon enable the alleged events? Serious question.

Basic answer is because they push this fake LGBT agenda and enforce it. They attract the worst offenders and eventually the above sort of incident happens. Meanwhile they harass and ban actual victims of these creeps. Though that was not the case here. Least so far as have seen.

Make of it what you will but Gencon and WOTC set the stage and laid out the table for this to happen. And this is just one of several incidents in the last few years. Gencon has become an increasingly unsafe venue.

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
the next time I see an allegation towards a man at a gaming convention, I really look forward to your concern and efforts to help reduce such things in the future.

Funny, I thought that was exactly the concern expresed in this thread, that a man tried to force himself on a woman. And the steps we consider GenCon should take to avoid this type of thing from happening at least among it's employees.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 04:00:00 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
the next time I see an allegation towards a man at a gaming convention, I really look forward to your concern and efforts to help reduce such things in the future.

Funny, I thought that was exactly the concern expresed in this thread, that a man tried to force himself on a woman. And the steps we consider GenCon should take to avoid this type of thing from happening at least among it's employees.

So this will prevent future assaults that happen outside of bedrooms? By cismen?

Magic! I didn't realize that there was such power in transwomen, that their presence in the bedroom of a ciswoman creates all of these negative ripples throughout society that it causes cismen to act abhorently.

I am obviously ill suited to a world where such things are possible. I'll stick to the observable universe, and y'all can deal with this magical one with weird sympathetical magical effects.

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 04:02:57 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 04:00:00 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:57:21 PM
the next time I see an allegation towards a man at a gaming convention, I really look forward to your concern and efforts to help reduce such things in the future.

Funny, I thought that was exactly the concern expresed in this thread, that a man tried to force himself on a woman. And the steps we consider GenCon should take to avoid this type of thing from happening at least among it's employees.

So this will prevent future assaults that happen outside of bedrooms? By cismen?

Magic! I didn't realize that there was such power in transwomen, that their presence in the bedroom of a ciswoman creates all of these negative ripples throughout society that it causes cismen to act abhorently.

I am obviously ill suited to a world where such things are possible. I'll stick to the observable universe, and y'all can deal with this magical one with weird sympathetical magical effects.

Can you point EXACTLY where do I claim such thing?

No, you can't, because you're a lying, coward, disingenuous twat trying to derail the thread.

This is about GenCon putting their women employees in the same room as men employees (them not being a couple that is). And, since those men claim to be women, you're happy to attribute their crimes to women and to keep white knighting for them disregarding the danger women are put in by your cult.

Seeing you won't argue in good faith (this not being your first disingenuous twattery) I'm ignoring you going forward, good luck getting yourself banned for posting off topic shit.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 04:22:33 PM
Can you point EXACTLY where do I claim such thing?

No, you can't, because you're a lying, coward, disingenuous twat trying to derail the thread.

This is about GenCon putting their women employees in the same room as men employees (them not being a couple that is). And, since those men claim to be women, you're happy to attribute their crimes to women and to keep white knighting for them disregarding the danger women are put in by your cult.

Seeing you won't argue in good faith (this not being your first disingenuous twattery) I'm ignoring you going forward, good luck getting yourself banned for posting off topic shit.

In a conversation about an assault, I bring up assault by cismen on women in shared spaces. Your reply to THAT discussion is "That's what we're discussing" and return to banning trans and cis women from sharing rooms. My comment was that I fail to see how that would solve the issue that had been currently discussed, because you didn't mean it as an actual solution. You were just being "funny."

So, you're the one who made a claim that somehow it would prevent the things I was talking about. You, not me, made this weird leap.

So, I guess you are being disingenuous. Because, I sarcastically replied to your inserted sarcastic quip.

Like a lot of folks, accuse the other side of what you're doing. I'm not saying I wasn't being sarcastic, but I was replying with like for like. (And you're right, it's not my first time doing it, as I said in a previous post, I had to edit it out. It's difficult to not be snarky to someone levelling snark at you. I can do better, but I'm quite sure you're not so fragile as to melt like a snowflake beneath a bit of snark pointed back at you.)

...and as far as off topic goes, I'm talking ABOUT the topic. I mentioned how past sexual assaults have been discussed and how I find it unusual that this one is getting extra and different attention. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm being dishonest or insincere. I'm pretty sure I'm safe from a ban for criticizing folks while remaining on topic, RPG Pundit has interacted with me in the past. My views haven't warranted any action yet, and I've been here almost a year doing it. If he finds fault with it, I'll certainly accept that. But this is on topic as far as I am concerned.

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 02:52:14 PM

Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 02:46:08 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 11:18:56 AM

Quote from: S'mon on August 12, 2022, 07:58:46 AM

Quote from: FingerRod on August 12, 2022, 06:44:32 AM
How did GenCon enable the alleged events? Serious question.

The enabling was by whoever put the trans in with the real woman, and whoever pressured or fooled the real woman into thinking this was safe and right. I doubt that Gencon did anything.

Well, since both were working for GenCon, guess who put them together? GenCon! Thus, by doing so SOME might say (because my lawyer tells me I must not assert anything) they enabled the situation. Furthermore, when she told some higher up they didn't call the police, expell the culprit, changed room arrangements or anything. The woman was forced to sleep in a conference room (IIRC) away from her would be rapist.

Given all of that some people MIGHT be of the OPINION that it's at least partly GenCon's fault.

Thanks for the explanation. That was totally my miss. When I read the original note on archive, the initial part about being assigned a room by GenCon was obscured by an ad I could not dismiss. It appears GenCon would hold some culpability in this case.

Wait, I missed that post originally.  That's not correct, go back and read Dot's message.

I did, twice. I know what I said and I understand tort law. But I am not debating it with you for two reasons.

First, you are not here in good faith so it is a waste of time. You dismiss an entire forum and community of people who are sons and fathers to women they would put their life on the line for...all in the name of gender identity and politics. You are a pathetic troll whose life is so empty you are left with being a canker around here.

Second, you're already walking the green mile. Pundit specifically said this was not a thread to discuss sexual assault hypocrisy and you had done so several times. I generally find him a man of his word so I'm not sure you'll be around. Regardless, reason one is enough.

Greetings!

Wow. Some freak man wearing a dress and a wig chooses to try and rape a woman in the same hotel room at GEN CON.

Yeah, let the fucker burn.

What is there to debate? The jackass, per S'mon's twitter quote, is a bunch of sniveling with a claim to seek some kind of professional help or therapy.

I think it is interesting that whenever some kind of sexual incident occurs--we always see these jackasses proclaim their intent to get "Professional help". That's just a fucking smokescreen and attempt at damage control, and avoiding the fiery wrath that is coming for them.

This is yet another example though of how stupid GEN CON is. They are a woketard company. I hope they go broke.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 03:37:28 PM
One man tried to drag a woman into his hotel room after she declined an offer to go into his room for a cup of coffee. She physically resisted and was only able to break free after another man witnessed it and asked him what was going on.

But, you know, that dude didn't get cancelled.

Canceled nothing, someone trying to drag women into their room deserves to be tazed by the cops and dragged down a flight of stairs on the way to the car, feet-first.  Which is exactly what this person deserves too, but has no indication of actually happening to him.  We'll see how it pans out, but none of the accounts mention the victims looking to any sort of law enforcement for a resolution.  I expect their peers would turn on them in a jiffy if they got a poor transwoman with substance abuse issues arrested for a little thing like being on the very rapey end of the sex pest spectrum.