It said when I see a FATE mod of Exalted and I have to agree that the fate version is better than the storyteller version.  Then again that is not my fault.  Nor is it the fault of the system really.  Storyteller can be pretty decent if it wasn't for the weird charm mechanics that the developers shove into it.

I am comparing this to Scion.  While not perfect Scion does use storyteller system and is a lot more understandable.  People call it Exalted lite, but I call it Exalted done right in terms of system alone.

Quote from: The Ent;733038Mainly the former really, the latter could probably be very cool as well (Arduin is oldschool after all, the meme that "oldschool means random losers getting murdered by kobolds" isn't really true - well it can be but doesn't have to) but I think the setting really deserves a way easier and more streamlined rules system.

Something like S&W Exalted would probably rock imo.

I've thought about how an OSR-style system might deal with some of the interesting problems that an Exalted-type setting presents to a game.

The biggest is the power gap involved. Conventional "mountains o' hit points" differences between Solars and mortals don't really convey the kind of qualitative difference between them- yet at the same time, you don't want to simply write in Immunity To Mortals as part-and-parcel of Solarity or else you make 99.9% of the actors in the setting totally irrelevant to the PCs. The setting itself wants to make novice Solars pay some attention to mobs of mortal-level opponents, however the system might not cooperate with that description.

There's also the issue of a mechanical reification of awesomeness. The vast Charm lists of Exalted might get a sneer from some quarters, but a lot of players really enjoy having those specific reality-bending bits of awesomeness attached to their character. Not only does it give them an explicitly-provided resource to use, it also gives a specific example of the kind of awesome thing they're able to do. We all can fill in the blank on "What things should a former peasant pig farmer be good at?" It's a little harder to wing "What should a former God-Emperor of the Flying Desert be good at?", particularly when the former GE is supposed to be able to ignore the laws of reality now and then.

This mechanical reification is great and all, but how exactly do you phrase it in OSR language? Some of it is easy enough- "You can do X now', where X is flying, or speaking any language, or becoming invisible while in sunlight, or whatever other qualitatively unique ability might be referenced. But what about all those skill boosters? Don't you need a skill system for that? And those combat buffs- how do you integrate that into an OSR game so that you get the right mix of demigod-stomping and meaningful risk? And that all leaves aside the question of a political endgame, which Exalted never really did grapple with in a coherent way.

I've edged a little toward a solution I like with my new Scarlet Heroes game, and I'm playing with other elements in the SWN superhero game I've got on the back burner, but it's really a complicated and interesting problem.

Quote from: SineNomine;733091I've edged a little toward a solution I like with my new Scarlet Heroes game, and I'm playing with other elements in the SWN superhero game I've got on the back burner, but it's really a complicated and interesting problem.

It's interesting that you say that, because as I was looking through Scarlet Heroes, I saw things like the Fray die and wondered if it would be possible to do something that was a blend of Exalted-style high-powered sword & sorcery with OSR rules via that.

Quote from: DisgruntleFairy;732959Well the honest truth is I've never gotten to play any version of Exalted. My groups look at the rules and say "what the fuck is this?" and stop right there. In fairness I think they are largely right. The rule set is a super complicated mess. I will freely admit to not even understanding how 2e is supposed to work much less how it actually does. I try to read about the tick system and suddenly I want to do anything else.

Yeah, for me the 2nd edition rules (I'm not familiar with 1st ed) read like they were intended to lead to you building super-heroic characters, but you got better results by focusing on being a super-accountant.  I don't know what the mote economy was intended to add to the game, but the complexity it added sure weighed against it in my book.  Like, should the Golden God-Kings of Creation really be spending so much time micromanaging their juice?

Quote from: Alathon;733330Yeah, for me the 2nd edition rules (I'm not familiar with 1st ed) read like they were intended to lead to you building super-heroic characters, but you got better results by focusing on being a super-accountant.  I don't know what the mote economy was intended to add to the game, but the complexity it added sure weighed against it in my book.  Like, should the Golden God-Kings of Creation really be spending so much time micromanaging their juice?

You know... a game about super-heroic accountants sounds like it could be fun. Sadly, I totally agree though the mechanics for 2nd edition are bad just bad...

Quote from: Ladybird;733065Have you tried any of the simplification hacks, like Qwixalted?

Basically, it needs a system that says "fuck dealing with plebs at the individual level, we're not mechanically interested in them" and assumes that it's only going to deal with Special People and societies.

I haven't but I've really been thinking of giving it a shot in something like Ore or M&M and seeing how it goes.

http://nishkriya.com/Threads/Details/4508

Quote from: Holden: From Onyx Path ForumPretty much. Our way of doing things is not the current industry standard way of doing things. Exalted is not another product; it's Exalted. It has its own needs. If I ever get to develop a 20th anniversary WoD book, I'll do the whole open dev thing. It would be neither wise nor desirable for EX3.

Yeah, this isn't exactly a good way to build better ties between you and your fans. This reads to me "we will do whatever we damn well please and you better deal with it."

Nor is stating that writing updates isn't a priority getting the book done is. Which he does in earlier in that thread. The two things aren't binary! Writing good updates should be an outgrowth of your work on the book and they shouldn't take a particularly long time. Particularly once a month or every two weeks.

I think Holden still thinks they are working for White Wolf of the 1990s.

Quote from: DisgruntleFairy;733349I think Holden still thinks they are working for White Wolf of the 1990s.

Well, I do believe that's the idea.  Of course the problem is they aren't working in the gaming market of the 1990s.  

JG

I played in a very short campaign of Exalted years ago. I was really obsessed with Hong Kong movies at the time and was super-jazzed about getting to play a flying swordsman in a funky "Glorantha meets Anime" kung-fu fantasy world... then I started to actually make up my character. Ugh. It fucking felt like doing taxes. The whole "Charms" thing was as bad as feats in 3.5-with-all-the-books.  Big letdown.

I lost interest in Exalted 3e when the rape culture drama happened and Holden groveled for forgiveness from his SJW sect.  I'm not interested in playing a game that has a political agenda in mind.

Quote from: DisgruntleFairy;733349Nor is stating that writing updates isn't a priority getting the book done is. Which he does in earlier in that thread. The two things aren't binary! Writing good updates should be an outgrowth of your work on the book and they shouldn't take a particularly long time. Particularly once a month or every two weeks.

And then they mention something that can easily be misread, or doesn't make sense without another piece of information that hasn't been revealed yet, then they end up firefighting and having to explain themselves to an audience that doesn't really want to listen... Look at the recent d&d5 dev diaries for example. Then add in the "you made #number on kickstarter, why isn't my game here yet" crowd... No, role players have worked damn hard for their reputation as a toxic cesspool of entitlement issues.

But in regard to their other comments, yeah, they are developing another game. Exalted requires mechanical rigour, but frankly every developer should understand how the numbers of their game work, and be happy that they produce the results the designer wanted. If they're not happy with that... well, if you get a job on a farm, don't come to me complaining that your wellies are covered in shit.

Quote from: Ladybird;733429And then they mention something that can easily be misread, or doesn't make sense without another piece of information that hasn't been revealed yet, then they end up firefighting and having to explain themselves to an audience that doesn't really want to listen... Look at the recent d&d5 dev diaries for example. Then add in the "you made #number on kickstarter, why isn't my game here yet" crowd... No, role players have worked damn hard for their reputation as a toxic cesspool of entitlement issues.

But in regard to their other comments, yeah, they are developing another game. Exalted requires mechanical rigour, but frankly every developer should understand how the numbers of their game work, and be happy that they produce the results the designer wanted. If they're not happy with that... well, if you get a job on a farm, don't come to me complaining that your wellies are covered in shit.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/01/23/the-ignorance-of-crowds-why-open-development-is-crap/

Latest news from John Morke, Ex3's lead developer, on his illness: http://www.gofundme.com/55z5l8

That's sounds terrible I wish him the best of luck.

The triple whammy of possible additional spreading, what sounds like (from that and his previous updates) depression and refusing to see a doctor sets off all sorts of alarm bells for me. What a horrible hand to be dealt. Hope someone close to him can jump on this and get him help, even if it is just palliative.

Quote from: Skywalker;733466Latest news from John Morke, Ex3's lead developer, on his illness: http://www.gofundme.com/55z5l8

That's sounds terrible I wish him the best of luck.

Poor fucking bastard. He should really, really hand this over to someone else, and go take care of his health. Best wishes to him.

Quote from: Archangel Fascist;733395I lost interest in Exalted 3e when the rape culture drama happened and Holden groveled for forgiveness from his SJW sect.  I'm not interested in playing a game that has a political agenda in mind.

I just googled for it and found huge threads on tbp and reddit and livejournal and other places about this.

What a train wreck.

Quote from: The Butcher;733488Poor fucking bastard. He should really, really hand this over to someone else, and go take care of his health. Best wishes to him.

My thoughts exactly.