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[cWoD] Alternatives to Vampires...

Started by Cryptofblood, March 27, 2015, 02:35:06 AM

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Cryptofblood

Hello everyone,

I have a question I've been wondering for a while that in the cWoD setting I wonder if there's other alternatives to Vampires especially which let's say if there's a post-ToJ/Gehenna (especially wormwood) setting where all Kindred are gone and the 'surviving' are now mortals (if wormwood was true), then it that world what would replace the Kindred/Vampires being the closest? Although I don't want to use KotE however (since I would like to ignore it's existence) though due to personal reasons. Also I wonder if there's other undead types other than Risen that plays the closest to Vampires?

Or basically, what if someone wanted to play a 'vampire' but they never liked how Masquerade presented them and what other alternatives can they go with? Can they create a 'different breed' or could a existing splat can mimic and pretend to be a vampire even though they're not?

Or in short: I wonder if there's Non-Caininte Vampires (Vampires that are not descended from Caine nor do they have the beast or the same physiology as Kindred or basically Vampires that exist outside the VTM monomyth all together) that exist in the cWoD or they have to be created?

RPGPundit

I'm pretty sure there aren't, no...
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Sergeant Brother

Quote from: Cryptofblood;822396Or in short: I wonder if there's Non-Caininte Vampires (Vampires that are not descended from Caine nor do they have the beast or the same physiology as Kindred or basically Vampires that exist outside the VTM monomyth all together) that exist in the cWoD or they have to be created?

Kindred of the East are like that, non-Cainite vampires. In canon, they are exclusively Asian, but you could tweak that and make non-Asian versions.

Cryptofblood

Quote from: Sergeant Brother;822611Kindred of the East are like that, non-Cainite vampires. In canon, they are exclusively Asian, but you could tweak that and make non-Asian versions.

Or alternatively not use them at all especially if you consider their problematic elements.

I think alternatives can be created if you stayed true to actual Taoist mythology where they can be instead "False Immortality Alchemy" created Vampires called for example "Gui-Xian" while standard Kindred also inhabit East Asia or everywhere else in the world.

Spinachcat

Personally, I would use Ghouls.

Of course, you could check out Nightbane.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightbane


Quote from: Cryptofblood;822671Or alternatively not use them at all especially if you consider their problematic elements.

White Wolf used to be so much more interesting than it's current PC ass-suck.

We got tons of fun from Kindred of the East. Holy fuck, if KotE is "problematic" for players, just imagine how impossible walking outside must be for them!
 
WoD is fiction, and fiction has creative license. Is KotE an accurate portrayal of the supernatural myths from every (or any) Asian culture? Nope, its not, but that's not their job. I have never found any fiction that boasts "adherence to realism" or "historically accurate" or "sensitive to feelings" be as interesting as letting an author run with their vision.

Of course, creative license should be limited to fiction. Anything billing itself as non-fiction should be eschew all fictional elements.

The new WoD crew thinks its gonna save our souls from the Evil White Man, but maybe that's why I never see anyone running nWoD or cWoD at gatherings or cons. It's become SJW:the Bitching.

Cryptofblood

#5
Quote from: Spinachcat;822677White Wolf used to be so much more interesting than it's current PC ass-suck.

We got tons of fun from Kindred of the East. Holy fuck, if KotE is "problematic" for players, just imagine how impossible walking outside must be for them!
 
WoD is fiction, and fiction has creative license. Is KotE an accurate portrayal of the supernatural myths from every (or any) Asian culture? Nope, its not, but that's not their job. I have never found any fiction that boasts "adherence to realism" or "historically accurate" or "sensitive to feelings" be as interesting as letting an author run with their vision.

Of course, creative license should be limited to fiction. Anything billing itself as non-fiction should be eschew all fictional elements.

The new WoD crew thinks its gonna save our souls from the Evil White Man, but maybe that's why I never see anyone running nWoD or cWoD at gatherings or cons.

"Fiction" is a subjective term and I think what you're simply forgetting the fact that KotE is not only built on Racism but also cultural appropriation and imperialism on East Asian cultures where white westerners (the writers of KotE) have this entitlement that they think any other culture/religion/etc other than theirs is up for grabs and turn them into their playthings at the expense of the cultures who originally owned them not to mention exoticism tries to 'other' Eastern Cultures which is one of the dynamics of Racism.

Quote from: Spinachcat;822677It's become SJW:the Bitching.

This is the part where you loose all credibility and probably not worth responding to which by the looks of things, you're most likely a GamerGate supporter which is nothing more than a harassment campaign against non-white males and their supporters in the gaming industry which quickly highlights what I'm talking about in the first place that problematic elements (sexism, racism, etc) exists in society therefore in the gaming industry in the first place very ironically enough.

Rincewind1

Quote from: Cryptofblood;822715"Fiction" is a subjective term and I think what you're simply forgetting the fact that KotE is not only built on Racism but also cultural appropriation and imperialism on East Asian cultures where white westerners (the writers of KotE) have this entitlement that they think any other culture/religion/etc other than theirs is up for grabs and turn them into their playthings at the expense of the cultures who originally owned them not to mention exoticism tries to 'other' Eastern Cultures which is one of the dynamics of Racism.



This is the part you loose all credibility and probably not worth responding to which by the looks of things, you're most likely a GamerGate supporter which is nothing more than a harassment campaign against non-white males and their supporters in the gaming industry which quickly highlights what I'm talking about in the first place that problematic elements (sexism, racism, etc) exists in society therefore in the gaming industry in the first place very ironically enough.



The only problematic element I see in relation to KotE is you.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

jeff37923

Quote from: Cryptofblood;822715This is the part where you loose all credibility and probably not worth responding to which by the looks of things, you're most likely a GamerGate supporter which is nothing more than a harassment campaign against non-white males and their supporters in the gaming industry which quickly highlights what I'm talking about in the first place that problematic elements (sexism, racism, etc) exists in society therefore in the gaming industry in the first place very ironically enough.

Fuck, you really don't have a clue, do you?

I miss the old days when frothing lunacy like this happened on street corners and illegible mimeographed flyers were thrust at you. Now it just seems so impersonal with the internet.
"Meh."

Cryptofblood

#8
Quote from: Rincewind1;822718

The only problematic element I see in relation to KotE is you.

"No U" arguments don't hold water you know.

Quote from: jeff37923;822719Fuck, you really don't have a clue, do you?

I miss the old days when frothing lunacy like this happened on street corners and illegible mimeographed flyers were thrust at you. Now it just seems so impersonal with the internet.

Who doesn't get the clue? Well Look whose talking now?

Rincewind1

Quote from: Cryptofblood;822720"No U" arguments don't hold water you know.

That is correct, I'd gladly pass water over your posts.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

Cryptofblood

Quote from: Rincewind1;822721That is correct, I'd gladly pass water over your posts.

Quite thank you, I'll drink it because all I drink is water.

*gulp*

Snowman0147

Quote from: Cryptofblood;822715This is the part where you loose all credibility and probably not worth responding to which by the looks of things, you're most likely a GamerGate supporter which is nothing more than a harassment campaign against non-white males and their supporters in the gaming industry which quickly highlights what I'm talking about in the first place that problematic elements (sexism, racism, etc) exists in society therefore in the gaming industry in the first place very ironically enough.

Years ago I was once like you.  I would had thought these guys are racist assholes and kept my mind shut.  Then Anita Sarkeensian happen.  At first I was piss off with all the a harassment she was receiving in her kickstarter.  I was broke so I couldn't support her other than morale.  So once she release her videos of course I went to youtube to watch them.

Problem is the more videos I watch the more I started to see something that is off.  By the time I got to her legos video I wanted to see the other side of the argument.  I want to know why they hated her.  So I went to the most reasonable anti-Anita people.  Not the trolls that harass her, but the critics that go after more important things.

What I learn was that Anita had all the power in her hands.  At any moment she can just erase all the troll comments, block out all messages, and all these other things.  In fact Anita been using these things all the time and only allowed troll comments so she can farm them and get people out rage.  Why?  She made 160K from that kickstarter alone.

So I went to warn people about that.  Among them is David Hill who does world of darkness books.  Let me put it this way.  They fucking dog piled me and made me wake up with the truth.  The truth is the group your in is fucking horrible and follow their dogma like a blind religious zealot.  The very thing that social justice warriors say they despise.

So I left and went on a different path.  Throughout the years I mostly remained silent and just focus on my own needs.  It was finally when I went to this site that I became more vocal.  I honestly felt like finally there are people that saw pass the bullshit like how I did.

Though I notice I was completely right in my hunch about Anita.  She is a con artist.  Evidence after evidence of her dishonesty, a confession from her, and a Anita supporter complaining about the theft of her art.  The ultimate kicker was that Anita is nothing more than a mouth piece to John McIntosh.  So there goes that strong independent woman who goes out calling for help when she feels like a victim.  If you can call that strong and independent.  I wouldn't, but I am just using logic.

So here is my warning.  You can continue on the path your currently in like how I was.  It only leads to pain and suffering as your group will dog pile on anyone they believe is "harmful" to the group.  Trust me you will eventually be seen as a threat to them.  

The other path you can go is to think for yourself and get out of your group.  Not saying be a gamergate member.  Hell it is not that important, but what is important is for you to think for yourself.  The group your in doesn't care about you, but only see you as a useful fool.  Once they see your no longer useful they will drop you like how they drop Brinna Wu.  So for the love of all that is good do what is good for yourself.  Think for yourself.

Cryptofblood

Quote from: Snowman0147;822731Years ago I was once like you.  I would had thought these guys are racist assholes and kept my mind shut.  Then Anita Sarkeensian happen.  At first I was piss off with all the a harassment she was receiving in her kickstarter.  I was broke so I couldn't support her other than morale.  So once she release her videos of course I went to youtube to watch them.

Problem is the more videos I watch the more I started to see something that is off.  By the time I got to her legos video I wanted to see the other side of the argument.  I want to know why they hated her.  So I went to the most reasonable anti-Anita people.  Not the trolls that harass her, but the critics that go after more important things.

What I learn was that Anita had all the power in her hands.  At any moment she can just erase all the troll comments, block out all messages, and all these other things.  In fact Anita been using these things all the time and only allowed troll comments so she can farm them and get people out rage.  Why?  She made 160K from that kickstarter alone.

So I went to warn people about that.  Among them is David Hill who does world of darkness books.  Let me put it this way.  They fucking dog piled me and made me wake up with the truth.  The truth is the group your in is fucking horrible and follow their dogma like a blind religious zealot.  The very thing that social justice warriors say they despise.

So I left and went on a different path.  Throughout the years I mostly remained silent and just focus on my own needs.  It was finally when I went to this site that I became more vocal.  I honestly felt like finally there are people that saw pass the bullshit like how I did.

Though I notice I was completely right in my hunch about Anita.  She is a con artist.  Evidence after evidence of her dishonesty, a confession from her, and a Anita supporter complaining about the theft of her art.  The ultimate kicker was that Anita is nothing more than a mouth piece to John McIntosh.  So there goes that strong independent woman who goes out calling for help when she feels like a victim.  If you can call that strong and independent.  I wouldn't, but I am just using logic.

So here is my warning.  You can continue on the path your currently in like how I was.  It only leads to pain and suffering as your group will dog pile on anyone they believe is "harmful" to the group.  Trust me you will eventually be seen as a threat to them.  

The other path you can go is to think for yourself and get out of your group.  Not saying be a gamergate member.  Hell it is not that important, but what is important is for you to think for yourself.  The group your in doesn't care about you, but only see you as a useful fool.  Once they see your no longer useful they will drop you like how they drop Brinna Wu.  So for the love of all that is good do what is good for yourself.  Think for yourself.

Either you were uneducated on the issue or maybe you never were which made you quickly buy into invented wholecloth of GamerGate claims despite the fact I don't think anything you said actually has any proof or any evidence backing it up (unlike you may claim) since all you're repeating is simply mismash of dishonestly, lies and deceit which maybe I could try to debunk them all but in the end, it'll be a waste of time because you'll never care about them at all.

So what's the point?

Snowman0147

I guess you made your choice on what path you want to go on.

Sergeant Brother

Quote from: Cryptofblood;822671Or alternatively not use them at all especially if you consider their problematic elements.

I think alternatives can be created if you stayed true to actual Taoist mythology where they can be instead "False Immortality Alchemy" created Vampires called for example "Gui-Xian" while standard Kindred also inhabit East Asia or everywhere else in the world.

Look, you're the one who made a thread asking if there were non-Cainite vampires in the OWoD. I just answered your question. Even though I'm not crazy about the book, I'm not personally looking to fix Kindred of the East and I think all of the SJW hate for the book is a bit silly.