Quote from: Opaopajr;7410833e. It was everything I ever wanted fixed... until I played it. And then I realized I was wrong.

Yup, I was super excited by 3e. Bought the PHB on day one, poured over it.

Loved every bit.

A few weeks later we converted our 2e game to 3e.

We played one or two sessions.

Afterwards we agreed that it was all a fever dream our characters had from catching a disease in the bogs.

We played 2e for several more years until the game petered out.

Quote from: Opaopajr;7410833e. It was everything I ever wanted fixed... until I played it. And then I realized I was wrong...

I had a similar experience, though I ran two 3e D&D campaigns before I figured this out (the campaigns went from level 1 to level 5-6, which I stretched out over a full year in both cases because I already could tell that level advancement was way too fast for my tastes simply by reading the rules).

Also: RMSS (Rolemaster Standard System).  I liked RM2e (though, in retrospect, I always enjoyed MERP more),and RMSS seemed to revamp the game at a time when RM 2e was suffering from supplement bloat (yes, I could have ignored that stuff...).  An aborted campaign later, and I was done with RMSS forever.

I vaguely recall being excited by GURPS and DragonQuest upon reading them, but finding the experience of running them frustrating.  But my memory of those systems is pretty fuzzy now...

3rd edition D&D. At first I was like "meh", then I was like "this is awesome!", then I was like "okay, I've got enough of it now", then I was like "are only assholes enjoying this?" and then I was like "maybe not, to each their own."

4e for me. I used to defend it, too, full on 4rry. I was convinced that people who didn't like it just didn't like anything new. Or were snobs towards things like video games who couldn't see the good in them. Or were wizard fanboys bitter that the fighter could do cool stuff too.

But then I realized 4e was a bad game. Not only did it lack the out of combat crunch of its predecessors, but it also failed as video game-inspired combat grinder. The daily/encounter resource system made combat incredibly samey, the healing surge system removed the ability for combat to put pressure on you, and magic items were a joke, taking the "magic item convenience store" issue of 3e and exploding it into "magic item Amazon wishlist".

The wool has been lifted from my eyes. Now I just need to figure out how Mike Mearls is still employed, and how I can get that kind of job security.

Quote from: Benoist;741412then I was like "are only assholes enjoying this?"

Fucking Internet ruins everything. 3e/3.5e, 4e, OSR, all editions of Traveller, oWoD, nWoD, Savage Worlds... all have their toxic fans and communities.

Except RQ, CoC and the rest of the BRP family. Everybody loves BRP. And BRP fans are the salt of the Earth.

Of course, I've never frequented a BRP forum with any regularity. They may have vicious Stormbringer edition wars that put D&D forums to shame for all I know.

Quote from: The Butcher;741427Of course, I've never frequented a BRP forum with any regularity. They may have vicious Stormbringer edition wars that put D&D forums to shame for all I know.

From what I've seen on BRP Central there's a good bit of insecurity over the system not being more popular and tearing of cloth over how to make it more like Fate or more like Savage Worlds... or whatever else is top pony on RPGnet this week. Sometimes I'm not sure the folks there even like BRP all that much (again, because if it's not incredibly popular there MUST be something wrong with it).

Quote from: Simlasa;741429From what I've seen on BRP Central there's a good bit of insecurity over the system not being more popular and tearing of cloth over how to make it more like Fate or more like Savage Worlds... or whatever else is top pony on RPGnet this week. Sometimes I'm not sure the folks there even like BRP all that much (again, because if it's not incredibly popular there MUST be something wrong with it).

Why the hell would you want to do that?  Seriously.  BRP is fine.  You don't make something popular by making it an inferior version of something else.  You make something popular by making it the best version of what it is that you can.

Quote from: Simlasa;741429From what I've seen on BRP Central there's a good bit of insecurity over the system not being more popular and tearing of cloth over how to make it more like Fate or more like Savage Worlds... or whatever else is top pony on RPGnet this week. Sometimes I'm not sure the folks there even like BRP all that much (again, because if it's not incredibly popular there MUST be something wrong with it).

Internet wank.

Quote from: Simlasa;741429From what I've seen on BRP Central there's a good bit of insecurity over the system not being more popular and tearing of cloth over how to make it more like Fate or more like Savage Worlds... or whatever else is top pony on RPGnet this week. Sometimes I'm not sure the folks there even like BRP all that much (again, because if it's not incredibly popular there MUST be something wrong with it).

:confused:

You might as well lament that tabletop RPGs aren't as popular as videogames. Imagine the conversation. "There's something wrong with RPGs, I tell ya. If only we could make them more like videogames..."

O wait...

Quote from: The Butcher;741434:confused:

You might as well lament that tabletop RPGs aren't as popular as videogames. Imagine the conversation. "There's something wrong with RPGs, I tell ya. If only we could make them more like videogames..."

O wait...

ROFLOL! That's what I was going to type: "Oh wait..."

Quote from: Simlasa;741429From what I've seen on BRP Central there's a good bit of insecurity over the system not being more popular and tearing of cloth over how to make it more like Fate or more like Savage Worlds... or whatever else is top pony on RPGnet this week. Sometimes I'm not sure the folks there even like BRP all that much (again, because if it's not incredibly popular there MUST be something wrong with it).

I actually had to go look, and I'm not seeing that.
Or, there is a lot of woe about BRP not being pop, but I haven't seen many attempts to tweak it into something it isn't that haven't been shot down within hours.

Quote from: baragei;741440I actually had to go look, and I'm not seeing that.
Or, there is a lot of woe about BRP not being pop, but I haven't seen many attempts to tweak it into something it isn't that haven't been shot down within hours.

Yeah, us BRPers are actually a pretty conservative lot and we recognize when things are departing from what we like.

As for BRP's popularity, I say it doesn't matter.  New games are getting published as labour of love projects with only 200 or so copies sold and the publisher considers this viable for his life (Newt's River of Heaven Kickstarter).  And the core system hasn't really changed much since the first publication of RQ in 1978.  As long as some form of the game is available for people who want to try it out and there's a place for those interested to talk about it, I'm happy.

Also, it sounds like RQ6 has been doing what it was intended as far as sales go.  Even if it's multiple small print runs rather than a single small print runs.

BRP is primarily a referee centric approach to gaming.  It doesn't really require prospective players to know the game inside and out prior to playing.  When I want to run a mini series of sessions, I send out an email to past players of games of different kinds, post on local facebook pages and get people together regardless of their BRP experience.

Quote from: The Butcher;741434:confused:

You might as well lament that tabletop RPGs aren't as popular as videogames. Imagine the conversation. "There's something wrong with RPGs, I tell ya. If only we could make them more like videogames..."

O wait...

Amusingly, I'd say that video games, with their attempts to claim they're now all RPG's by putting TALENT TREES and DUALIST MORALITY everywhere (Because that's all RPG's are, right?), are the ones that are doing something wrong.

I fucking hate talent trees and the culture around them.

Quote from: baragei;741440I actually had to go look, and I'm not seeing that.
Or, there is a lot of woe about BRP not being pop, but I haven't seen many attempts to tweak it into something it isn't that haven't been shot down within hours.

It's not constant but when there's friction that's usually what it seems to be about, from what I've seen... I don't go there as much anymore but I've seen a number of folks trying to say BRP needs ads/disads or 'something like aspects' or Fate points (already an option) or whatever other magic tweak to 'fix' it. Isn't that what CoC 7 is getting at? A while back I saw one of its writers on the Yog forums talking about how they were 'fixing' CoC.

D&D 3e. At first I was like "no speed factors? Static initiative? Splitting levels between classes instead of XP"? But I gave it the old college try and soon launched two of the most successful, fun long term D&D sessions I've ever run under the system.