Just curious if anyone is playing these types of games here.  While I'm making a purposeful shift away from D&D related fantasy, it seems like OSR type games (which aren't for me personally given my shift) fit into that space.  I don't have alot of experience with them (basically zero in the fantasy genre beyond just reading the rules) but I find myself drawn to them more and more in theory.  I specified traditional traditional RPGs because I'm not referring to narrative/"story" games but rather those with a classic GM/player division, story structure, and defined actions.  I suspect most folks here playing rules light are likely doing so through the OSR route (that I'm also equally unfamiliar with to be honest).   How much longevity is there in these types of rulesets for campaigns?  Do you get enough variety in character options for long term play?  If you are regularly playing these types of games, which ones are you using?

Yep.  I am running a bi-weekly Old School Essentials (OSE) game and I love it.   Character creation is a breeze, there aren't a lot of rules and where there isn't a rule, the DM decides and goes from there.

Old School Essentials is based on the old B/X (Basic/Expert) rules that an earlier version of D&D used, but OSE is cleaned up, mistakes fixed and things are explained better.

One suggestion for better assistance; rules light is VERY subjective... if your frame of reference is PF1e or HERO or Exalted 3e then nearly anything is rules light. For others, BECMI is mid-crunch and 1e WEG Star Wars or Ghostbusters might be considered rules light.

Basically; give us an example of what you consider too crunchy a ruleset and we can provide more assistance.

I'm not sure exactly what games would fall into this category.

Quote from: RNGm on April 01, 2024, 09:08:01 AM
Just curious if anyone is playing these types of games here.  While I'm making a purposeful shift away from D&D related fantasy, it seems like OSR type games (which aren't for me personally given my shift) fit into that space.  I don't have alot of experience with them (basically zero in the fantasy genre beyond just reading the rules) but I find myself drawn to them more and more in theory.  I specified traditional traditional RPGs because I'm not referring to narrative/"story" games but rather those with a classic GM/player division, story structure, and defined actions.  I suspect most folks here playing rules light are likely doing so through the OSR route (that I'm also equally unfamiliar with to be honest).   How much longevity is there in these types of rulesets for campaigns?  Do you get enough variety in character options for long term play?  If you are regularly playing these types of games, which ones are you using?

I think my favorite rules lite system is Risus. Another fun little set of rules is World of Dungeons (based on a stripped down version of Dungeon World which is a pretty light set of rules itself). The Black Hack is fun! And then there is the Microlite20 universe which I think is OSR or at least very similar.

I have made a system called Pulp! Kharma and I have a number of games based upon Microlite20.

My problem is that people are set on playing games that are heavy that I cannot get people to play. They won't even try. And then they complain about how complicated and pointless the rules are. Oh well!

Quote from: yosemitemike on April 01, 2024, 09:36:01 AM
I'm not sure exactly what games would fall into this category.

For me, non-OSR (by which most people mean O, B and 1eD&D) rules light would be the WEG Star Wars 1e; full characters fit on note cards and take just minutes to build, dice mechanics are consistent using nothing but d6s, anything larger than a light freighter is handled narratively (the 1e rules for fighting a Star Destroyer using a star fighter were literally "applaud the bravado and award them a swift and dramatic death.").

Later editions changed some of the math and started adding more fiddly bits that I think made it more the light side of rules medium, but individual perceptions will vary.

Tiny-d6 is a derivative that also falls into Rules Light territory. Depending on which widgets you're using Savage Worlds can be rules light.

The Free League games are pretty rules light. Forbidden Lands, Twilight 2000, Mutant Year Zero, etc.

The system uses a dice pool (d6 or d6, d8, d10, and d12) with a "push" mechanic (press-your-luck reroll). I have run several of their games for inexperienced players and they grok it pretty quick.

I would call them rules light, towards the medium side of the spectrum.

They have enough complexity to support campaigns, and several have detailed base-building rules.

Quote from: yosemitemike on April 01, 2024, 09:36:01 AM
I'm not sure exactly what games would fall into this category.

Barbarians of Lemuria, EZD6, Tiny Dungeon, and Tricube Tales are some that come to mind.  I don't know if Mork Borg is considered OSR but it seems from the coverage that might fit in as well.   Admittedly I haven't played any of the games but that's why I'm inquiring about them.

I am enjoying learning and setting up a one shot for ICRPG:Master Edition. 

Its not exactly OSR, but it is rules lite.  I like that 5 worlds are already setup, and a couple are interlinked.
Char create is easy, and aesthetically detailed.  Unusual game mechanics should work ok for the scope and goals of the system.

Also fascinating to me is that the rules system is quite flexible, playing fantasy to post apocalyptic to superheroes.

I will be DMing the RedSword one shot soon.  Heres hoping it goes well.

In terms of other OSR rules. I liked the old B/X games, 1st ed GammaWorld, etc.  So I look out for those types of rules sets.  I remember playing B/X about 1980, so I am not afraid to build a scenario or campaign and not have 9 books of everything setup for me.

Wait?  did I answer the question?

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 01, 2024, 09:30:35 AM
One suggestion for better assistance; rules light is VERY subjective... if your frame of reference is PF1e or HERO or Exalted 3e then nearly anything is rules light. For others, BECMI is mid-crunch and 1e WEG Star Wars or Ghostbusters might be considered rules light.

Basically; give us an example of what you consider too crunchy a ruleset and we can provide more assistance.

I'd probably qualify current D&D as squarely in the middle as "mid-crunch" personally.  Something lighter than that like Five Torches Deep or Easy Mode D&D would be the rules light versions of it.   As for the non-OSR part of the question, I'm trying to branch away from typical D&D style heroic fantasy in general and d20 based systems in particular if possible.

Quote from: squirewaldo on April 01, 2024, 10:12:38 AM

I think my favorite rules lite system is Risus. Another fun little set of rules is World of Dungeons (based on a stripped down version of Dungeon World which is a pretty light set of rules itself). The Black Hack is fun! And then there is the Microlite20 universe which I think is OSR or at least very similar.

I have made a system called Pulp! Kharma and I have a number of games based upon Microlite20.

My problem is that people are set on playing games that are heavy that I cannot get people to play. They won't even try. And then they complain about how complicated and pointless the rules are. Oh well!

It's definitely an uphill battle to entice people to play anything less well known for sure.  I wasn't aware of Risus or World of Dungeons/Dungeon World so will have to look them up.  Do you feel like they have enough depth in character creation/advancement to keep the average player's attention at least of a couple of months of weekly play?

edit: Would WoD/DW classify as a traditional style RPG?  Admittedly I'm basing this on a 30 second quick read of their starter guide to playing but it seems from the description with vague "moves" along with degrees of success that it might play more like a narrative game in that regard.   I obviously may be wrong with that first impression though.

Quote from: rytrasmi on April 01, 2024, 11:21:57 AM
The Free League games are pretty rules light. Forbidden Lands, Twilight 2000, Mutant Year Zero, etc.

The system uses a dice pool (d6 or d6, d8, d10, and d12) with a "push" mechanic (press-your-luck reroll). I have run several of their games for inexperienced players and they grok it pretty quick.

I would call them rules light, towards the medium side of the spectrum.

They have enough complexity to support campaigns, and several have detailed base-building rules.

That's a good point.  I'm quite familiar with the YZE/Free League games and enjoy them but I'd personally consider them rules medium myself though they can be modded to be rules light (and I've seen "micro" and "mini" versions of them using their open license).

Quote from: orbitalair on April 01, 2024, 12:27:24 PM
I am enjoying learning and setting up a one shot for ICRPG:Master Edition. 

Its not exactly OSR, but it is rules lite.  I like that 5 worlds are already setup, and a couple are interlinked.
Char create is easy, and aesthetically detailed.  Unusual game mechanics should work ok for the scope and goals of the system.

Also fascinating to me is that the rules system is quite flexible, playing fantasy to post apocalyptic to superheroes.

I will be DMing the RedSword one shot soon.  Heres hoping it goes well.

In terms of other OSR rules. I liked the old B/X games, 1st ed GammaWorld, etc.  So I look out for those types of rules sets.  I remember playing B/X about 1980, so I am not afraid to build a scenario or campaign and not have 9 books of everything setup for me.

Wait?  did I answer the question?

I'd say so since I forgot about ICRPG!  Is it true that some of the latter supplements really drifted it more towards just plain rules medium away from its lighter roots?   While I've watched some reviews about it, I can't say that I've even read the full core rules let alone played it or gotten to really know them.  Is there enough meat on the original core bone to facilitate a couple months worth of weekly play?  As for RedSword, I'll have to look that up as I'm not familiar with it even in passing.

ICRPG:Master Edition has the 3 supplements added to the main book now.  Vigilante City, Snow and Blood and GhostMountain.

The Xeno:Dead Zone, while really cool, is a bit of a, well, really crunchy addon in my view.  but i havent gotten to play it yet.

I think the MasterEdition worlds would have enough depth to play for many months, weekly.
But chars dont have 'levels', and advancements are made a little differently.  I see chars as having about 5-6 'levels', which would be like the B/X system.

I 'think' the Adventure module pack (of some 20 oneshots) is either free or cheap ($2?).  It came with the ICRPG:ME pdf set.  The Last Flight of the Red Sword is in there.  In fact they say to play the sci-fi Red Sword first, as it serves as a better break for the player and GM mindset.

You can download the core rules for free from the runehammer site.

EDIT: to be clear, Xeno is a completely seperate buy from the Master Edition set.

Warlock! is rules light. Characters are Stamina, Luck, and a handful of Skills.

The main mechanic is d20 + Skill >= 20.

In combat, Stamina is HP and when you hit 0 or less you roll on an injury table. Stamina recovers very quickly.

There's also a sci-fi version called Warpstar!

And there's a reasonable amount of published materials which is always a good sign.

As for campaigns, there's a career system with some careers only available as second careers. So it seems designed for long term play.