Quote from: RNGm on April 01, 2024, 09:08:01 AM
1. How much longevity is there in these types of rulesets for campaigns? 
2. Do you get enough variety in character options for long term play? 
3. If you are regularly playing these types of games, which ones are you using?

1. You can play forever or until the pc dies. The real question is how important is the zero to hero climb for you? Do you want to start out with a fledgling pc that kinda sucks but can improve, or start out with a pretty competent player that is already improved.
2. Depends on if you want to focus on growing the pc wide or high. High = my skill increases to be better. Wide = I learn a new skill.
3. I have no idea if you want 2d6, percentile, step dice, or dice pool. But, here are some neat systems I've found (all are free to download):

• d6 RPG by 3 Muse at https://3muse.tripod.com/d6rpg.htm
• 2d6 Roleplaying System by Joshua Gager at https://2d6game.wordpress.com/about/
• There and Back Again by Ray Otus at https://plundergrounds.itch.io/taba

Don't waste your money on TinyD6 (it's not that it's a bad game, it's a good game but way overpriced for what it is and There and Back Again is 90% the same game).

Quote from: RNGm on April 01, 2024, 12:31:52 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on April 01, 2024, 10:12:38 AM

I think my favorite rules lite system is Risus. Another fun little set of rules is World of Dungeons (based on a stripped down version of Dungeon World which is a pretty light set of rules itself). The Black Hack is fun! And then there is the Microlite20 universe which I think is OSR or at least very similar.

I have made a system called Pulp! Kharma and I have a number of games based upon Microlite20.

My problem is that people are set on playing games that are heavy that I cannot get people to play. They won't even try. And then they complain about how complicated and pointless the rules are. Oh well!

It's definitely an uphill battle to entice people to play anything less well known for sure.  I wasn't aware of Risus or World of Dungeons/Dungeon World so will have to look them up.  Do you feel like they have enough depth in character creation/advancement to keep the average player's attention at least of a couple of months of weekly play?

edit: Would WoD/DW classify as a traditional style RPG?  Admittedly I'm basing this on a 30 second quick read of their starter guide to playing but it seems from the description with vague "moves" along with degrees of success that it might play more like a narrative game in that regard.   I obviously may be wrong with that first impression though.

I'm not familiar with World of Dungeons, but Dungeon World focuses on Moves.  A Player says what they want to do; then the GM interprets what the player said, and calls for the appropriate roll, when necessary.  "So, you try to Defy Danger?  Roll........".  Players roll for everything, in Dungeon World.  Offense and Defense, etc.

Quote from: RNGm on April 01, 2024, 12:28:57 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 01, 2024, 09:30:35 AM
One suggestion for better assistance; rules light is VERY subjective... if your frame of reference is PF1e or HERO or Exalted 3e then nearly anything is rules light. For others, BECMI is mid-crunch and 1e WEG Star Wars or Ghostbusters might be considered rules light.

Basically; give us an example of what you consider too crunchy a ruleset and we can provide more assistance.

I'd probably qualify current D&D as squarely in the middle as "mid-crunch" personally.  Something lighter than that like Five Torches Deep or Easy Mode D&D would be the rules light versions of it.   As for the non-OSR part of the question, I'm trying to branch away from typical D&D style heroic fantasy in general and d20 based systems in particular if possible.

In that case, I'd recommend taking a look at Savage Worlds. It's core is rules lite and you can bolt on extras to taste. It has a large number of settings both official and unofficial.

My personal feeling is it does classic pulp adventure best and even conversions to it end up feeling that way. It also runs on Bennies (a metacurrency) and if the GM isn't handing them out fairly liberally the mechanics can get a little wonky.

I really like minimalist games in general. Risus, Mini-six, etc.

I rarely play then, however, most of my games are still OSR (usually with a minimalist twist).

Quote from: RNGm on April 01, 2024, 12:31:52 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on April 01, 2024, 10:12:38 AM

I think my favorite rules lite system is Risus. Another fun little set of rules is World of Dungeons (based on a stripped down version of Dungeon World which is a pretty light set of rules itself). The Black Hack is fun! And then there is the Microlite20 universe which I think is OSR or at least very similar.

I have made a system called Pulp! Kharma and I have a number of games based upon Microlite20.

My problem is that people are set on playing games that are heavy that I cannot get people to play. They won't even try. And then they complain about how complicated and pointless the rules are. Oh well!

It's definitely an uphill battle to entice people to play anything less well known for sure.  I wasn't aware of Risus or World of Dungeons/Dungeon World so will have to look them up.  Do you feel like they have enough depth in character creation/advancement to keep the average player's attention at least of a couple of months of weekly play?

edit: Would WoD/DW classify as a traditional style RPG?  Admittedly I'm basing this on a 30 second quick read of their starter guide to playing but it seems from the description with vague "moves" along with degrees of success that it might play more like a narrative game in that regard.   I obviously may be wrong with that first impression though.

I will play just about any set of rules if I like the people I am playing with. If I don't like them no set of rules would work. I think the real issue is the quality of the players, not the quality of the rules although there are some rules that just suck beyond all measure. I think all these rules can be played over and over again whether in a campaign or just as a set of rules that everyone is used to playing.

One of my favorite games of all time is Trvaeller. I have been told several times that it is not OSR despite being older than AD&D.  But it is "mostly" rules light and fun as hell to play.  I say "mostly" because there are a ton of rule supplements for this game but it really just boils down to rolling 2d6, adding a modifier, and trying to beat a target number.

The power creep is kept in check by hard limits on stats and no hit points. Damage is done to a character's stats so a guy with good stats will take more damage and remain conscious for longer, but has to do tasks with greater stat penalties due to wounds. 

Since the game uses d6's for everything you may have to suspend disbelief as the maps are all hexagon grid, star maps included.  And everything fits neatly into a six-sided universe.  But the game runs smoothly.

Traveller was the first game to incorporate character backgrounds, which you generate with your character.  Older. Pensions of the game can have your character die during this period but if you are clever, you can simply rule that that is where the character's background ends and the adventure begins.

I guess I should mention that Traveller is a Science-fiction game, but supplements are available for fantasy, and historical settings.

I'm a fan of Dragonbane & have run it a lot. Currently I'm mostly running Cyberpunk Red; despite the long skills list it feels rules light in play, with a simple task resolution mechanic, a pretty simple combat system, and no 'Feats' or other high-crunch.  Definitely very streamlined from CP 2020.

Yes.

Mazes & Minotaurs
http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/

Zeus welcomes you to join him in non-OSR rules light traditional RPGing!

From 1972!

Quote from: S'mon on April 01, 2024, 06:34:55 PM
I'm a fan of Dragonbane & have run it a lot. Currently I'm mostly running Cyberpunk Red; despite the long skills list it feels rules light in play, with a simple task resolution mechanic, a pretty simple combat system, and no 'Feats' or other high-crunch.  Definitely very streamlined from CP 2020.

Do you consider Dragonbane rules light?  It's definitely a solid ruleset and I'm personally a fan of alot of what Free League produces (including Dragonbane but moreso Forbidden Lands myself) but from my reading and short demo game it seemed more just rules "medium" on par or only slightly lighter than core 5e.  Just to reiterate, that's not a dig on the game but rather just that I'm surprised you might be calling it rules light.

Quote from: Spinachcat on April 02, 2024, 03:40:56 AM
Yes.

Mazes & Minotaurs
http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/

Zeus welcomes you to join him in non-OSR rules light traditional RPGing!

From 1972!

Thanks and I'll take a look.  It's one of the OG systems I remember hearing about from grognards when I got into gaming in the early 90s as a teen along with Runequest (and obviously D&D) but never tried.

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on April 01, 2024, 05:22:53 PM
One of my favorite games of all time is Trvaeller. I have been told several times that it is not OSR despite being older than AD&D.

*snip*

I guess I should mention that Traveller is a Science-fiction game, but supplements are available for fantasy, and historical settings.

I never took a look at it because of its scifi nature (I usually lean towards cyberpunk for scifi as an RPG moreso than space travel) but I've been hearing over the past 6 months when researching various RPGs that it has systems/mechanics that I probably like similar to GURPS (which I also haven't tried).  I wasn't aware that it had a fantasy system.   About the only thing I knew over the years about the system was that you could "die" in character creation.

On the light end of lite, there is Maze Rats and Cairn(v1).
I like both of these little booklets, good stuff in just a few pages.  Interesting systems.

Cairn v2 adds more talents/skills and char backstory stuff, which i disagreed with and got banned by the author.
i am abrasive i guess.

I quite like this sort of game, but what with one thing and another, rarely get to run/play them. As others have mentioned, it's hard to get players for anything other than variations on D&D or other mainstream games like Call of Cthulhu.

One I can recommend from experience is Dragon Warriors, a mid-80s fantasy game that got republished in the late 00s. It's about the same rules-weight as something like OSE, class-based, but with totally different HP, armor, combat and magic systems. (For my money, it's an improvement on D&D in almost every respect). I ran a campaign of it for a little over a year, players loved it, and it sustained a lengthy campaign perfectly well. https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/90926/dragon-warriors

The categories and subdivisions of the games we play is starting to sound like a fucking Starbucks order...

"I'd like a non-OSR, Rules-Light, Traditional... hold the "T" in TTRPG because we invented RPG, extra immersion and another shot of emulation, and no Forge. K thanks?"

Quote from: RNGm on April 02, 2024, 09:05:05 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat on April 02, 2024, 03:40:56 AM
Yes.

Mazes & Minotaurs
http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/

Zeus welcomes you to join him in non-OSR rules light traditional RPGing!

From 1972!

Thanks and I'll take a look.  It's one of the OG systems I remember hearing about from grognards when I got into gaming in the early 90s as a teen along with Runequest (and obviously D&D) but never tried.

No it isn't. But it should have been.