Quote from: tenbones on April 02, 2024, 12:29:43 PM
The categories and subdivisions of the games we play is starting to sound like a fucking Starbucks order...

"I'd like a non-OSR, Rules-Light, Traditional... hold the "T" in TTRPG because we invented RPG, extra immersion and another shot of emulation, and no Forge. K thanks?"

Lol!  Well, it's the consequence of RPG "theory" and theory-crafters, I think.  When I first started playing in the 80s, we didn't care whether our mechanics were unified or our games gave everyone a share of the "spotlight."   We cared if they were fun.  Once you spend too long plotting the journey, you tend to forget the destination...

Quote from: RNGm on April 02, 2024, 09:08:05 AM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on April 01, 2024, 05:22:53 PM
One of my favorite games of all time is Trvaeller. I have been told several times that it is not OSR despite being older than AD&D.

*snip*

I guess I should mention that Traveller is a Science-fiction game, but supplements are available for fantasy, and historical settings.

I never took a look at it because of its scifi nature (I usually lean towards cyberpunk for scifi as an RPG moreso than space travel) but I've been hearing over the past 6 months when researching various RPGs that it has systems/mechanics that I probably like similar to GURPS (which I also haven't tried).  I wasn't aware that it had a fantasy system.   About the only thing I knew over the years about the system was that you could "die" in character creation.

I am a big fan of Cyberpunk (the RPG by R. talsorian).  I used that game, and its sister system Mekton to run Traveller games after MegaTraveller stopped being produced.  Personally I never jived with the official setting, but I thought the system was amazing and hacked it for a space opera game. 

Here are some supplements that you might find interesting:
Sword of Cepheus (a fantasy hack for Traveller): https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/304840/The-Sword-of-Cepheus

Mercator (Traveller in Ancient Rome). Links directly to .pdf:

https://www.freelancetraveller.com/magazine/2010-04/mercator.pdf

Traveller 1520, Holy Roman Empire:

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397322/1520-hre-2d6-adventure-in-the-holy-roman-empire

I quite like LBB Traveller.  I kind of wish it wasn't quite _that_ rules light, but it gets the job done and I love the setting

Quote from: RNGm on April 02, 2024, 08:57:38 AM
Do you consider Dragonbane rules light?  It's definitely a solid ruleset and I'm personally a fan of alot of what Free League produces (including Dragonbane but moreso Forbidden Lands myself) but from my reading and short demo game it seemed more just rules "medium" on par or only slightly lighter than core 5e.  Just to reiterate, that's not a dig on the game but rather just that I'm surprised you might be calling it rules light.

Yes I'd consider it rules light, lighter than 5e.

Quote from: RNGm on April 02, 2024, 08:57:38 AM
Do you consider Dragonbane rules light?  It's definitely a solid ruleset and I'm personally a fan of alot of what Free League produces (including Dragonbane but moreso Forbidden Lands myself) but from my reading and short demo game it seemed more just rules "medium" on par or only slightly lighter than core 5e.  Just to reiterate, that's not a dig on the game but rather just that I'm surprised you might be calling it rules light.

GURPS Ultralite?
Tunnels & Trolls?

Quote from: tenbones on April 02, 2024, 12:29:43 PM
The categories and subdivisions of the games we play is starting to sound like a fucking Starbucks order...

"I'd like a non-OSR, Rules-Light, Traditional... hold the "T" in TTRPG because we invented RPG, extra immersion and another shot of emulation, and no Forge. K thanks?"

Would you rather I be vague so people suggest things that I know I have no interest in?   FWIW, my coffee orders are always simple.  "Coffee, black.  No cream, no sugar."  The only reason I add the second sentence is because some baristas are too stupid to know what the first actually means based on my experience. 

Quote from: Eirikrautha on April 02, 2024, 02:47:16 PM
Lol!  Well, it's the consequence of RPG "theory" and theory-crafters, I think.  When I first started playing in the 80s, we didn't care whether our mechanics were unified or our games gave everyone a share of the "spotlight."   We cared if they were fun.  Once you spend too long plotting the journey, you tend to forget the destination...

Yes, yes, I know, Grandpa.  You had to walk uphill year round in the snow just to attend the game and you didn't have dice because throwing marked caltrops on the floor is REAL immersion otherwise you're just storygaming that injury result!    Us 90s gamers don't know how easy we had with our unified games with coherent rulesets... 

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on April 02, 2024, 04:16:29 PM
Here are some supplements that you might find interesting:
Sword of Cepheus (a fantasy hack for Traveller): https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/304840/The-Sword-of-Cepheus

Mercator (Traveller in Ancient Rome). Links directly to .pdf:

https://www.freelancetraveller.com/magazine/2010-04/mercator.pdf

Traveller 1520, Holy Roman Empire:

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397322/1520-hre-2d6-adventure-in-the-holy-roman-empire

Thanks and I'll take a look.  I actually saw a video about Sword of Cepheus as well as Barbaric! 2E which I'll be checking out in more detail this week.

Quote from: RNGm on April 01, 2024, 09:08:01 AM
Just curious if anyone is playing these types of games here.  While I'm making a purposeful shift away from D&D related fantasy, it seems like OSR type games (which aren't for me personally given my shift) fit into that space.  I don't have alot of experience with them (basically zero in the fantasy genre beyond just reading the rules) but I find myself drawn to them more and more in theory.  I specified traditional traditional RPGs because I'm not referring to narrative/"story" games but rather those with a classic GM/player division, story structure, and defined actions.  I suspect most folks here playing rules light are likely doing so through the OSR route (that I'm also equally unfamiliar with to be honest).   How much longevity is there in these types of rulesets for campaigns?  Do you get enough variety in character options for long term play?  If you are regularly playing these types of games, which ones are you using?

Eh.

The way you described trad games fits something like Apocalypse World or Burning Wheel. Would you agree those are trad games? If not, why?

Quote from: Theory of Games on April 02, 2024, 07:02:59 PM

Quote from: RNGm on April 01, 2024, 09:08:01 AM
Just curious if anyone is playing these types of games here.  While I'm making a purposeful shift away from D&D related fantasy, it seems like OSR type games (which aren't for me personally given my shift) fit into that space.  I don't have alot of experience with them (basically zero in the fantasy genre beyond just reading the rules) but I find myself drawn to them more and more in theory.  I specified traditional traditional RPGs because I'm not referring to narrative/"story" games but rather those with a classic GM/player division, story structure, and defined actions.  I suspect most folks here playing rules light are likely doing so through the OSR route (that I'm also equally unfamiliar with to be honest).   How much longevity is there in these types of rulesets for campaigns?  Do you get enough variety in character options for long term play?  If you are regularly playing these types of games, which ones are you using?

Eh.

The way you described trad games fits something like Apocalypse World or Burning Wheel. Would you agree those are trad games? If not, why?

Never read through let alone played either so can't really commment.

Quote from: RNGm on April 02, 2024, 07:01:05 PM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on April 02, 2024, 04:16:29 PM
Here are some supplements that you might find interesting:
Sword of Cepheus (a fantasy hack for Traveller): https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/304840/The-Sword-of-Cepheus

Mercator (Traveller in Ancient Rome). Links directly to .pdf:

https://www.freelancetraveller.com/magazine/2010-04/mercator.pdf

Traveller 1520, Holy Roman Empire:

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397322/1520-hre-2d6-adventure-in-the-holy-roman-empire

Thanks and I'll take a look.  I actually saw a video about Sword of Cepheus as well as Barbaric! 2E which I'll be checking out in more detail this week.

We play tested Barbaric! 2E. It was so much fun. We loved the magic system - slow and dangerous.

-Tod

Quote from: RNGm on April 02, 2024, 07:29:01 PM

Quote from: Theory of Games on April 02, 2024, 07:02:59 PM

Quote from: RNGm on April 01, 2024, 09:08:01 AM
Just curious if anyone is playing these types of games here.  While I'm making a purposeful shift away from D&D related fantasy, it seems like OSR type games (which aren't for me personally given my shift) fit into that space.  I don't have alot of experience with them (basically zero in the fantasy genre beyond just reading the rules) but I find myself drawn to them more and more in theory.  I specified traditional traditional RPGs because I'm not referring to narrative/"story" games but rather those with a classic GM/player division, story structure, and defined actions.  I suspect most folks here playing rules light are likely doing so through the OSR route (that I'm also equally unfamiliar with to be honest).   How much longevity is there in these types of rulesets for campaigns?  Do you get enough variety in character options for long term play?  If you are regularly playing these types of games, which ones are you using?

Eh.

The way you described trad games fits something like Apocalypse World or Burning Wheel. Would you agree those are trad games? If not, why?

Never read through let alone played either so can't really commment.

The reason I ask is you're throwing around terminology but I'm not sure you understand what the terms mean. Like "Story"-based games and "traditional" games. Then posters start throwing around more terms: "mid-crunch" and "lite" and "rules-medium" for example. Before you know it everybody's talking about something else about the same subject. It gets silly.

I think the real question is what kind of play experience is your group looking for. "The game would need to provide (fill-in-the-blank) experience": what's "fill-in-the-blank"? Because posters will spit rpgs at you for pages and pages with none of them being what your group really gets wet over.

Quote from: RNGm on April 01, 2024, 12:31:52 PM
It's definitely an uphill battle to entice people to play anything less well known for sure.  I wasn't aware of Risus or World of Dungeons/Dungeon World so will have to look them up.  Do you feel like they have enough depth in character creation/advancement to keep the average player's attention at least of a couple of months of weekly play?

Dungeon World is a fantasy flavored version of Apocalypse World.  It's very much a narrative game with a heavy emphasis on The Fiction.  All Powered by the Apocalypse/Apocalypse Engines games are like this.  If you don't want a narrative game, these games are not what you are looking for.

Quote from: Theory of Games on April 02, 2024, 07:51:53 PM
The reason I ask is you're throwing around terminology but I'm not sure you understand what the terms mean. Like "Story"-based games and "traditional" games. Then posters start throwing around more terms: "mid-crunch" and "lite" and "rules-medium" for example. Before you know it everybody's talking about something else about the same subject. It gets silly.

I think the real question is what kind of play experience is your group looking for. "The game would need to provide (fill-in-the-blank) experience": what's "fill-in-the-blank"? Because posters will spit rpgs at you for pages and pages with none of them being what your group really gets wet over.

I disagree as I think I have a fairly good grasp of the terms but I do admit that there is wiggle room as to which games might be classified under each due to the subjective nature of opinions in general rather than the question itself.  Regardless, I've gotten alot of good examples of games to check out that fit the criteria for others and might also for me so I'd consider that to be a success.   Honestly, I don't see how answering your much more open ended question entirely based on feelings (as opposed to at least partially objective criteria referencing game mechanics like "rules light") would lead to more accurate responses.   Additionally, I don't actually have a group yet and instead am trying to check out games in order to find other players willing to play; as a GM, I find the mechanics matter more to me in that role than as a player.  You're obviously free to disagree.  Out of curiosity, if you were the one looking for a game, how would you answer your own question to give an example of how it would help narrow down the suggestions given?

Quote from: Theory of Games on April 02, 2024, 07:02:59 PM

Quote from: RNGm on April 01, 2024, 09:08:01 AM
Just curious if anyone is playing these types of games here.  While I'm making a purposeful shift away from D&D related fantasy, it seems like OSR type games (which aren't for me personally given my shift) fit into that space.  I don't have alot of experience with them (basically zero in the fantasy genre beyond just reading the rules) but I find myself drawn to them more and more in theory.  I specified traditional traditional RPGs because I'm not referring to narrative/"story" games but rather those with a classic GM/player division, story structure, and defined actions.  I suspect most folks here playing rules light are likely doing so through the OSR route (that I'm also equally unfamiliar with to be honest).   How much longevity is there in these types of rulesets for campaigns?  Do you get enough variety in character options for long term play?  If you are regularly playing these types of games, which ones are you using?

Eh.

The way you described trad games fits something like Apocalypse World or Burning Wheel. Would you agree those are trad games? If not, why?

BW is 3/4s a trad game, with certain pieces that are story game and other pieces that don't really fit any of that, trad or story.  In any case, it's not the trad or story pieces that make it an odd duck, but how highly structured it is, and how abstract some of those structured pieces are.  It also highly curbs the GM's scope with strict rules--because the GM running BW is supposed to be a complete hard case within that structure, and then push the PCs to utter ruin if he can.  Otherwise, the PCs never advance, because you can't get anywhere if you don't fail a lot.

It's weird, but about the only thing it shares with story games is a few bits of narrative currency that wouldn't be out of place in the old James Bond game, player veto over monster stats before the game starts, and the politics of the creators.