The Wargaming Thread

[David Johansen]

So, I like miniatures wargames, I'm okay with hex and counter stuff but I'm more of a craftsman than a tactician so miniatures are my thing.

I've got one heck of a gaming space.  Here's a link to my store's website.  http://www.neutralgroundgames.com

Anyhow I play Flames of War, Kings of War, Warzone, Warpath, Bolt Action, Hordes of the Things, DBA, War of Battle Warry War.  I have played Warhammer  (had 7 armies at one point), Warhammer 40000 (had 2 armies), $tarcorp$, AD&D Battle System, Rules According To Ral.  I like the points of overlap with rpgs like ICE's War Law and Sea Law.

I've got a War of Spanish Secession army assembled but unpainted.  I've got around 100 Wargames Factory Romans and maybe 30 Celts painted.  Deus Vult looks really sweet, I've always wanted to do medieval and I've got an obscure Canadian system I'd like to try.

So anyhow, what's your wargaming look like these days.

[Tristram Evans]

I'm also very much about the miniatures. While I've played a few hex and counter, they don't have the greatest amount of appeal for me.

Like many, I started with Warhammer. I've dabbled in 40K, but Fantasy is my main love. Started with 3rd edition, then took a break and got back in with 8th, but found it dissatisfying enough to move backwards to 6th. The Oldhammer community reinvigorated my love of 3rd. I've tried Kings of War, and while there are aspects I like, I ended up finding it a bit dissatisfying overall. i have a 15mm Hordes of the Things army that hasn't seen too much use yet. Recently embarked on a Warmaster binge. Also play Mordheim, Frostgrave, and made small excursions into Knights and Magick, Carnivale, Hell Dorado, 7TV, Celtos, Dragon Rampant, Of Gods and Mortals, In Her Majesty's Name,Song of Blades & Heroes, Otherworld and Ral Partha's Chaos Wars. Played some W40K using the 5150 Star Army rules.

In recent years I've made the plunge into historicals, starting with Black Powder and Hail Caesar, with a Prussian 15mm army and then a 28mm British Celts force and Scottish War of the Roses army. From there I've tried WRG 6th edition, Armati, Impetus, and To The Strongest!   I've read DBMM, but it was a little too fiddly for my tastes, and I've read but not yet gotten a chance to play SAGA, Crusader, Kensei, Vini Vidi Vici, Shock of Impact, and Broken Lances.

Of all the wargames, fantasy or historical, that I've read and played, my absolute favourite set of rules at this point is Terry Gore's Medieval Warfare. Originally published by Saga (not to be confused with the dark ages skirmish gameline), then done in a beautiful revised hardcover edition by The Foundry, the rules are absolutely fantastic. Simple enough to learn, but complex enough to hit my personal sweet spot as far as abstraction and definition. The author was a well-regarded medieval scholar and it shows; the game emphasis and rewards real-world strategies. There was a planned fantasy adaption of the rules before the author's unfortunate passing, but I'm currently working on an adaption of that myself.

[Gronan of Simmerya]

I got rid of my miniatures about 10 years ago and kind of regret it.

I go to GaryCon and wallow in historical miniatures wargaming for four days.  TRACTICS, CHAINMAIL, DON'T GIVE UP THE SHIP, and CAVALIERS AND ROUNDHEADS are especial favorites.  I hope to get into CLASSIC WARFARE.

There is a group that puts on a miniature wargame con four times a year which is a good place to try stuff.  That's where I discovered I hate DBA on the tabletop as much as I hate the manuscript... I absolutely loathe and despise the "rock paper scissors" aspect.

I also play some WW2 naval stuff when somebody is running it.

[Gronan of Simmerya]

Also, it's my personal opinion that modern miniatures rules have gotten longer and more complicated but neither more fun to play nor more realistic in terms of refighting a historical battle.

[David Johansen]

While I bought Warhammer Mass Combat Roleplay (1e) back around 1982 and my cousin had a copy of Ravening Hordes, I never really got to play it.  The idea of having enough miniatures to build regiments was shocking at the time.  It didn't really offer much as a straight up rpg though I've always liked the Redwake River Valley scenario.  I also had WRG 7th edition and ran a few small test combats with it and FGU's Fire Hack and Run skirmish rules.  Later I had Task Force's Star Fire and Steve Jackson's Car Wars and played them a fair bit.  But I was mostly an RPG guy.

As I graduated and had a little more money and GW was printing color ads in Dragon I got into AD&D Battlesystem 2 which was okay but weak on the army building and units side of things.  I purchased, Ral Partha's Chaos Wars but the scenarios were so large that it was off putting.  Great little system though.  Then I got Warzone, Vor The Maelstrom, Kryomek, anything that came along that wasn't Warhammer really.  Didn't have much luck as they kept dying off and the only place to purchase them was a two hour drive away and busing was expensive.  GW killed their external distribution and their games disappeared from my town for around eight years until a new comic shop owner decided to give it a try.  That's when I finally gave in and got into Warhammer.  Gave away most of my 25mm collection.  At the time Ral Partha had just closed down and it looked like 25mm was gone for good anyhow.  I've really regretted it because 28mm rpg support has never been very good.  Sure there's Reaper, but honestly I've never liked their figures.

Oh well, I'm back to my, fringe games and obscure companies.  It's no way to run a store but I have fun anyhow.

[Madprofessor]

I am also a miniatures guy.  I have perhaps 50 painted armies, mostly ancients and medievals but also quite a bit of fantasy in 15mm and 28mm.  I use a lot of different rules sets and often write my own.  I don't paint much any more as my eyes aren't what they used to be.  In fact, I don't play all that often any more as wargamers are growing scarce.  I don't use miniatures when I play RPGs, preferring theater of the mind, but I often do use miniatures games as a change of pace for mass battles as part of the campaign.

[Gronan of Simmerya]

You know, a lot of people I know use 28mm and 25mm figures together.  Just like when we were using 1/87 scale armor, some of the stuff was 1/76 or 1/72 if that's the scale the model was available in.  Yeah, it looks a little odd to have a Honey bigger than a T-34, but at least we had Honeys.

[David Johansen]

Also, it's my personal opinion that modern miniatures rules have gotten longer and more complicated but neither more fun to play nor more realistic in terms of refighting a historical battle.

So, it depends a lot.  Rick Priestly (yes THAT designed Warhammer and Warhammer 40k Rick Priestly) has some very nice, fun, and reasonably light games published by Paul Sawyer's Warlord Games (yes THAT Paul Sawyer who was editor at White Dwarf for many years back when GW was fun) but Hail Caesar, Pike and Shotte, Black Powder, and Bolt Action should be right up your alley.  I didn't list Beyond the Gates of Antares as it's a bit more complex.  Mantic's Kings of War (by GW Alumnus ) is dead simple.  It isn't great for small battles but if you have two hundred figures on the table it's a lot of fun.  Small battles run fast enough you can run a tournament or a campaign in an afternoon but tend to be determined by the first unit lost as being outnumbered is brutal in KoW.  Warpath should be in the same vein for science fiction but Mantic's dropped the ball three times now with that one.

I'm not fond of the cluttered table games like X-wing with all their little gimmicks and gadgets.

There's also lots of small press stuff.  A Song of Blades and Heroes gets great reviews and most of the Osprey games after Fields of Glory get good press.  Fields of Glory is a bit of a throwback to more complex rulesets but it's no WRG7th edition.

[David Johansen]

You know, a lot of people I know use 28mm and 25mm figures together.  Just like when we were using 1/87 scale armor, some of the stuff was 1/76 or 1/72 if that's the scale the model was available in.  Yeah, it looks a little odd to have a Honey bigger than a T-34, but at least we had Honeys.

HERESY!!!

Okay, I admit it, I'm a scale fanatic and I loathe scale creep.  Especially in its "make sure you can't use anyone else's miniatures with our games" mind set.  Yes my love for Mutant Chronicles Warzone is pure hypocrisy but there you go.

I'm an amateur sculptor and caster (with the burns to show for it) and I want to do figure lines to go with my games but I'm really torn between 25mm (which I like better) and 28 (which sells better).  Undoubtedly my business sense won't get the best of me this time either.

Of course we're spoiled for choice these days.

[Mordred Pendragon]

I'd love to get into miniature wargaming, especially historical and modern wargaming.

Any suggestions for a newcomer to the hobby?

[Voros]

I'm interested in finding out more about wargaming too but have no interest in blowing a fortune on miniatures as they're not my thing.

Heard that Memoir 44' and its expansions are a good entry point but that it is 'light' (not that I care). 1775: Rebellion, 1812 Invasion of Canada and A Few Acres of Snow look interesting.

[Tod13]

Also, it's my personal opinion that modern miniatures rules have gotten longer and more complicated but neither more fun to play nor more realistic in terms of refighting a historical battle.

I see this too. I kept looking for a simple miniatures game, but the rules all read so complicated. The other issue is that I felt a lot of them are "miniatures arms race"--if I wanted to play with other people, I needed to be willing to buy the latest $50 single miniature to get its powers.

Fortunately, in the middle of one search, I found Steve Jackson Games' Ogre Miniatures 1 Kickstarter. Not exactly "miniatures" (if by miniatures, you mean using rulers), but I prefer hexes anyway.

[Tristram Evans]

I'd love to get into miniature wargaming, especially historical and modern wargaming.

Any suggestions for a newcomer to the hobby?

This is kinda like asking "any advice for an aspiring crack addict?"

What I'd say is

1) do a lot of research, there's a ton of games out there, you should be able to find one that specifically appeals to you.

2) find the local wargamming club and attend a few mettings. Most times it will be easy to find someone who will have an extra army they'll let you play, and it will give you a feel for the more popular games in your area.

3) if you can, stick to 15mm. There's as many choices as 28mm and it will be hugely less of a burden on your pocketbook. Any game that can be played in 28mm can be proxied easily in 15mm.
 
Try out a few skirmish games that only use a handful of figures. If you can, join an escalation group (which generally starts very small and adds up the points per month or so, so people get the chance to build up their armies.

Also, make up your army list beforehand, dont just start buying cool models, that is the way to madness. Find out exactly what you need, then find the cheapest way to go about it. Don't feel obliged to buy the "official" miniatures of any gameline. Thats just marketing. There's tons of better priced, and in some cases, nicer-looking options.

[Tristram Evans]

Also, it's my personal opinion that modern miniatures rules have gotten longer and more complicated but neither more fun to play nor more realistic in terms of refighting a historical battle.

That was true of the 80s, pretty much the opposite is true these days.

[Skarg]

Seems like the thread title should mention Miniatures, since minis wargaming is one type of wargaming, and cardboard counter games tend to be quite different.

Memoir '44 is very rules lite, BTW. Not bad as a first intro game, but very generic and gamey (notably less complex than OGRE, which BTW has a nice free PDF version of the rules, IIRC), The intro scenario to original Squad Leader is about 10 times more sophisticated rules, and 100+ times more realistic gameplay.