Quote from: Sean !;831379if you want pre 'star wars' pulp planet-based sci-fi (John Carter of Mars -style) I suggest Whitebox and Savage Swords of Athanor (free pdf) instead.

I can find Whitebox online, but anyone find a link for a free download of Savage Swords of Athnor? (I've found some blog entries, but somehow am missing any links. Must have failed my perception check.

Quote from: finarvyn;831452I can find Whitebox online, but anyone find a link for a free download of Savage Swords of Athnor? (I've found some blog entries, but somehow am missing any links. Must have failed my perception check.

Yes, where is this freebie to be found and what is it?

Quote from: finarvyn;831452I can find Whitebox online, but anyone find a link for a free download of Savage Swords of Athnor? (I've found some blog entries, but somehow am missing any links. Must have failed my perception check.

https://app.box.com/shared/ifyu9tnm8q

I couldn't tell from reviews if the system has a dedicated shipbuilding section. Does it?

It also occurred to me earlier today that I can likely use Barbarians of the Void as the simple mechanical system while using SWN for star system generation ideas. Again, the main lure for White Star seems to be familiarity and some crossover with OD&D.  But I think I like BoL's Careers system better, overall, for a space game. That said, if White Star drops a bit in price, I might still pick it up.  I'm curious to see what it's all about.

Quote from: cranebump;831393The reviewer makes some legitimate points, but evidently wants a lot more crunch.

He wants a lot more crunch and he doesn't want a generic system that does not get in the way of the science fantasy setting individual GMs want to create. He seems to want the designer to provide specific rules for things like FTL travel instead of leaving it open for the GM to handle. I, on the other hand, see the lack of such details as a major positive -- I can use White Star to run a setting with SW-like hyperspace travel, or a setting with Traveller like short jumps that take a week of real time, or a setting with Lensman-like inertialess drives, or a setting with Perry Rhodan like near instantaneous very long range jumps -- all without needing any rules revision.

 I generally don't want a lot of the "designer's vision" the review author seems to desire in a generic rules set like White Star because that vision often interferes with my vision for the setting I want to create for the game.

You will not see reviews like this one on OSR sites -- not because all OSR people are writing soft-petal reviews but because OSR people simply are unlikely to even see most of the issues this reviewer sees. The GM decides when monster morale breaks instead of having rules for determining then morale breaks? Few OSR people will see any need to even mention this in a review as "The GM Decides" is a common feature of most OSR games, is considered a positive feature by most OSR players and GMs, and therefore isn't something likely to even be mentioned in a review by the average OSR review writer. Etc.

Quote from: cranebump;831561I couldn't tell from reviews if the system has a dedicated shipbuilding section. Does it?

No but it is obvious how to build your own from the included examples.

QuoteSpace Yacht
ARMOR CLASS 4 [15]
HIT POINTS 40
SHIELD STRENGTH 1
Movement 12
TARGETING: +0
ATTACK Light Laser (2d6) [pilot-linked]
MODIFICATIONS Faster-Than-Light Drive

Sleek and elegant, space yachts are used by rich diplomats and nobles to
cruise the stars in style. They are not heavily armed, but they are fast. With
only a meager laser and the lightest shields to defend itself, the space yacht is built with the mantra of style over substance. Because of their association with the idle rich, they are often the targets of space pirates and other criminals.

Similar to creating a classic D&D monster. He does provide a list of dozen or so standard modifications you can apply to the ship. But like the special powers of monsters it easy to add your own.

Quote from: cranebump;831561It also occurred to me earlier today that I can likely use Barbarians of the Void as the simple mechanical system while using SWN for star system generation ideas. Again, the main lure for White Star seems to be familiarity and some crossover with OD&D.  But I think I like BoL's Careers system better, overall, for a space game. That said, if White Star drops a bit in price, I might still pick it up.  I'm curious to see what it's all about.

Like I said before as a game it is good minimalist RPG but much of it is not that innovative. What make it great is that author successfully makes you look at classic OD&D from a science-fiction angle. The Starship section is the most brilliant part of the book in that regard. And that it built on the OGL so other people can jump in and publish their own ideas.

Quote from: Matt;831421Would be nice to see some other "OSR" blog guys actually critique each other's work in this way rather than just slap backs and praise one another in exchange for free copies.  Tenkar's Tavern, for instance, keeps hyping this game to the moon. You'd think it was the Second Coming.

In my reviews I always tell it like it is.  Usually, when this means criticizing an OSR work, I get into all kinds of shit for it.  There's definitely a strong sense of tribalism where you're never supposed to criticize "the team".

I'd certainly welcome a review copy of this game.  It looks cool.

Quote from: RandallS;831579He wants a lot more crunch and he doesn't want a generic system that does not get in the way of the science fantasy setting individual GMs want to create. He seems to want the designer to provide specific rules for things like FTL travel instead of leaving it open for the GM to handle. I, on the other hand, see the lack of such details as a major positive -- I can use White Star to run a setting with SW-like hyperspace travel, or a setting with Traveller like short jumps that take a week of real time, or a setting with Lensman-like inertialess drives, or a setting with Perry Rhodan like near instantaneous very long range jumps -- all without needing any rules revision.

 I generally don't want a lot of the "designer's vision" the review author seems to desire in a generic rules set like White Star because that vision often interferes with my vision for the setting I want to create for the game.

You will not see reviews like this one on OSR sites -- not because all OSR people are writing soft-petal reviews but because OSR people simply are unlikely to even see most of the issues this reviewer sees. The GM decides when monster morale breaks instead of having rules for determining then morale breaks? Few OSR people will see any need to even mention this in a review as "The GM Decides" is a common feature of most OSR games, is considered a positive feature by most OSR players and GMs, and therefore isn't something likely to even be mentioned in a review by the average OSR review writer. Etc.

I dunno about that-- at least not your specific example. I'd point to a tendency to actually try and have morale rules as one of the defining traits of old-school vs. new-school D&D and something that sharply informs the difference in feel.

Quote from: RandallS;831579... You will not see reviews like this one on OSR sites -- not because all OSR people are writing soft-petal reviews but because OSR people simply are unlikely to even see most of the issues this reviewer sees. The GM decides when monster morale breaks instead of having rules for determining then morale breaks? Few OSR people will see any need to even mention this in a review as "The GM Decides" is a common feature of most OSR games, is considered a positive feature by most OSR players and GMs, and therefore isn't something likely to even be mentioned in a review by the average OSR review writer. Etc.

I think you're right, and in my opinion, here's how you'll know for sure in two easy phases:

1) Blogger talks about how jazzed they are for White Star.
2) Stream of posts that are house-rules and self made materials for White Star.

The appeal of White Star as a rules set is clearly in what people will make and share with it.

Quote from: LibraryLass;832020I dunno about that-- at least not your specific example. I'd point to a tendency to actually try and have morale rules as one of the defining traits of old-school vs. new-school D&D and something that sharply informs the difference in feel.

So B/X isn't old school?
I don't care really, but the OSR was built on B/X and 1e, both of which have moral rules.

Quote from: LibraryLass;832020I dunno about that-- at least not your specific example. I'd point to a tendency to actually try and have morale rules as one of the defining traits of old-school vs. new-school D&D and something that sharply informs the difference in feel.

0e (aka Original D&D from 1974) did not have morale rules unless you imported them from Chainmail or simply decided when monsters broke (often with a variant of the reaction roll, in my experience). Actually taking morale into account so every combat is not a fight to the death is very old school, however specific rules for a morale roll did not make it into D&D until 1e and B/X.

Swords & Wizardry White Box (which White Star is based on) try to clone the original three little D&D booklets from 1974. S&W White Box covers morale in basically the same way White Star does:

QuoteMorale
Certain monsters, such as mindless or undead creatures, are fearless and will
always fight to the death. The majority, however, will not continue to fight a
hopeless battle and will seek to retreat, surrender, or flee. The Referee will
decide when monsters abandon battle and retreat, based upon the situation and the monster's intelligence. Referees should also use morale to determine the actions and loyalty of hirelings or other companion NPCs.

--S&W White Box (3rd Print Edition), p31

So it is not surprising to someone familiar with S&W White Box (or the original 0e LBBs) that a SF variant that tries to be compatible with it would have rules very similar to these. An OSR person writing a review would probably not even think the morale rules in White Star worth mentioning.

Quote from: Aos;832038So B/X isn't old school?
I don't care really, but the OSR was built on B/X and 1e, both of which have moral rules.

You are leaving out all the 0e OSR clones (like Swords & Wizardry, Microlite74, Delving Deeper, etc.) which are based on the original D&D game from 1974. An older version than B/X and 1e.

Quote from: RandallS;832045You are leaving out all the 0e OSR clones (like Swords & Wizardry, Microlite74, Delving Deeper, etc.) which are based on the original D&D game from 1974. An older version than B/X and 1e.

No I am not, I am merely recognizing that B/X and 1e predate ALL of those clones. Oe love came into the OSR relatively late.
also you ignored my question.

Quote from: Aos;832050No I am not, I am merely recognizing that B/X and 1e predate ALL of those clones. Oe love came into the OSR relatively late.
also you ignored my question.

I thought the question was rhetorical, but as it wasn't. I'll answer it.  
B/X is old school as is 0e, 1e, Holmes Basic. Some people also consider and BECMI and 2e old school.

However, you may have missed my point. White Star is based on S&W White Box and is intended to be fully compatible with it. Both are therefore based on 0e (without the supplements). The fact that 0e was cloned after B/X and 1e were cloned doesn't really matter. White Star is a 0e variant not a B/X or 1e variant.