Especially as I already have Stars Without Number?

From what I have read there is nothing in it that you couldn't do yourself with D&D as its the same rules, just different classes and equipment lists. I don't really see why it's getting all this hype.

Also seems more post-Star Wars sci fantasy than pre-Star Wars sci fi, the latter of which is my preference.

I don't have it, but it got panned pretty hard over on the Big Purple.  Consensus seemed to be you're better off with SWN.

Question is, how many sci-fi rpgs do you need ?

Whitestar is S&W Whitebox (a free pdf) reskinned as populist sci-fi that feels Star Wars-ish. It's a toolkit with simple rules and advice on rulings.

If you want a to play Han Solo + Mr Spock take on Daleks it hits that spot and you can always use the SNW tables/generators with it.

if you want pre 'star wars' pulp planet-based sci-fi (John Carter of Mars -style) I suggest Whitebox and Savage Swords of Athanor (free pdf) instead.

Quote from: Saladman;831378I don't have it, but it got panned pretty hard over on the Big Purple.  Consensus seemed to be you're better off with SWN.

Yeah, that doesn't sound good. OTOH, isn't the whole point of "White Box" (which this claims to be) is that rules are bad (at least any sort of rule not in the original 3 booklets) and get in the way of proper "role playing" (which went downhill with the Publication of Supplement I, Greyhawk).

So while it might not be my cup of tea (or that poster), it might be exactly what is advertised (White Box in space) and thus to some, the very pinnacle of gaming.

SWN is more B/X meets Classic Traveller, which is a good deal more complex. Though certainly not anywhere near as complex as old school games like Spacemaster or Space Opera or the dreaded Universe....

Quote from: JeremyR;831384Yeah, that doesn't sound good. OTOH, isn't the whole point of "White Box" (which this claims to be) is that rules are bad (at least any sort of rule not in the original 3 booklets) and get in the way of proper "role playing" (which went downhill with the Publication of Supplement I, Greyhawk).

So while it might not be my cup of tea (or that poster), it might be exactly what is advertised (White Box in space) and thus to some, the very pinnacle of gaming.

Fair 'nuff; I'm not buying the pdf on spec, so as I said, I only know what I've read.

But now I'm reminded of another pet peeve of mine in the world of retro-clones, which is it's like pulling teeth to get that honest take on what's under the cover.  Because they sure as heck don't put any variation on what you just wrote in the ad copy; apparently we're just supposed to know it.  And this isn't the first product where the real scoop on a forum bears no relation whatsoever to the official ad copy.

Read some reviews. Strengths are that all OD&D stuff ports over, so you can easily expand on the base classes and such. Spaceships are treated like creatures with AC and such. Less crunchy than SWN for sure. I DO prefer B/X fantasy variants, so maybe using tge SWN system generation with something like this might be interesting. If it's direct port, then you have a huge bestiary and other resources.

The reviewer makes some legitimate points, but evidently wants a lot more crunch.

That review does remind me of what bothers me about many "OSR" games: someone scrapes serial numbers off an existing game and slaps his name on the cover and touts it as a new game. It's "D&D in Space," essentially, but without any of the "hard sci fi" stuff from pre-Star Wars science fiction; those elements are instead replaced with the lazy mysticism of post-Star Wars science fantasy.

Also: since White Box and Swords & Wizardry are available for free, why buy this instead of just call your magic user an "Alien Mystic" and so on? I bet White Star will be a free PDF soon enough.

I would like to hear from anyone who has found this game inspired or somehow innovative or extra special for some reason, particularly if that someone can explain why and how.

White Star is a product where the author redress OD&D into a science-fiction roleplaying game.

It's content focuses on the space opera sub-genre like Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, etc.

It is a minimalist RPG and designed to be that way. In my opinion it is done right in that everything you need to run sci-fi space opera is there nothing more and nothing less. And from personal experience is harder to design a good minimalist game than not.

It has two decent innovations. The Star-Knight class is clever adaption of the D&D magic rules to simulate a Jedi, Lensmen, etc type character. The starship system is also clever in how adapt monster stats to simulate starship combat.

The downside that the actual content is oriented towards space opera. If you don't like that subgenre, you will need to create your own stuff. But...

The reason some in the OSR are excited about it is because most of it is open content. Because it easy to see how you can adapt its concepts to make your own take on space opera or any other sci-fi subgenre.

For a person not interested in publishing or creating content Star without Number is the more complete D&Dish science fiction RPG. However for someone who is interested in publishing or content creation, White Star is the better choice.

To recap White Star is a good minimalist space opera RPG that has ignited the interest of many in the OSR to create their own science fiction content based on its concept.

Would be nice to see some other "OSR" blog guys actually critique each other's work in this way rather than just slap backs and praise one another in exchange for free copies.  Tenkar's Tavern, for instance, keeps hyping this game to the moon. You'd think it was the Second Coming.

Quote from: Matt;831421Would be nice to see some other "OSR" blog guys actually critique each other's work in this way rather than just slap backs and praise one another in exchange for free copies.  Tenkar's Tavern, for instance, keeps hyping this game to the moon. You'd think it was the Second Coming.

You not read much of Tenkar Tavern then. He doesn't hold back when he thinks things are shit.


As for myself I don't think it is the second coming, I do think it is good. And more importantly the author wrote and presented in the tone of an open playground. That is a major factor the enthusiasts, like Tenkar, are responding too.

Yes people can write their own games and all that. That just one way of expressing one's creativity. Another is to contribute to a common body of work. And this is a major reason behind the excitement about White Star. It isn't as much about what White Star is but rather what you can do with it.

Quote from: Matt;831421Would be nice to see some other "OSR" blog guys actually critique each other's work in this way rather than just slap backs and praise one another in exchange for free copies.  Tenkar's Tavern, for instance, keeps hyping this game to the moon. You'd think it was the Second Coming.

I think part of the problem may be that most people doing OSR blogs assume they are talking to other people who are already into OSR games. Describing White Star as given the White Box treatment to Star Wars style science-fiction in a way that is compatible with S&W White Box tells me pretty much all I need to know about the game executive summary-wise. For people not as familiar with OSR games, that's obviously not true.

White Star may not be the "Second Coming" but it is a great White Box style Star Wars style SF game -- a good framework the GM can use as is or more likely to easily houserule into exactly what his/her campaign needs.  Better yet, it's very compatible with S&W White Box so if you want to add SF to your WB-based fantasy campaign, White Star makes it easy. What it isn't is what many non-OSR people would consider a complete game nor does it make any attempt to be mechanically innovative.

Almost all of this is readily apparent from what has been said in OSR blogs like Tenkar's Tavern -- provided you already have a firm grasp of OSR games.

T

Quote from: estar;831431You not read much of Tenkar Tavern then. He doesn't hold back when he thinks things are shit.


As for myself I don't think it is the second coming, I do think it is good. And more importantly the author wrote and presented in the tone of an open playground. That is a major factor the enthusiasts, like Tenkar, are responding too.

Yes people can write their own games and all that. That just one way of expressing one's creativity. Another is to contribute to a common body of work. And this is a major reason behind the excitement about White Star. It isn't as much about what White Star is but rather what you can do with it.

I read Tenkar daily.  His buddies get raves. He is good at critiquing Kickstarters, though.

Quote from: Matt;831362From what I have read there is nothing in it that you couldn't do yourself with D&D as its the same rules, just different classes and equipment lists. I don't really see why it's getting all this hype.

Also seems more post-Star Wars sci fantasy than pre-Star Wars sci fi, the latter of which is my preference.

The nice thing about DnD, especially in its minimilist iterations is that it is that for many players there is no learning curve. They already know how everything works. "It is just DnD in space," sounds great to me, as a referee, really. I can do SF without having to teach any rules or harbor any false expectation that anyone else will read anything game related. Ever.

That said, I'd likely do this sort of thing myself. Simplified pull it out your ass spaceship rules sound pretty good to me. Further, wasn't the DnD armor class system based on a similar mechanic from a navel war-game? It is perfectly suited to the task, imo.

However, I completely agree with you in terms of the culture of soft reviews.