Quote from: bottg;358858AND IT IS HERE!!

It has taken a while, and there have been some unforseen obstacles, but it is finally released.  I refer you to the appropriate ad:

Rolemaster Rome

Excellent! :hatsoff:

Will a print version be available at some point?

Quote from: Akrasia;358905Excellent! :hatsoff:

Will a print version be available at some point?

That is the plan, but i am not sure on timescales

So what are the differences between the editions? How different are RMFRP and RMC and RM Express? How express is RM Express? What actual books are included in the RM Express 3-book and 6-book bundles? I like the idea of Classic I think, but I don't know having not ever played RM in any form, or even looked through the books. I have an idea for a campaign setting that has been rattling around in my head for awhile now (years really) but have not yet found a system that I think would do it full justice.

Quote from: Sigmund;358953So what are the differences between the editions? How different are RMFRP and RMC and RM Express? How express is RM Express? What actual books are included in the RM Express 3-book and 6-book bundles? I like the idea of Classic I think, but I don't know having not ever played RM in any form, or even looked through the books. I have an idea for a campaign setting that has been rattling around in my head for awhile now (years really) but have not yet found a system that I think would do it full justice.

RMC is just Rolemaster 2 rewritten and cleaned up.  It has a more basic single skill system.

RMFRP is basically RMSS redone and streamlined a bit from what I hear.  It has a more complex character creation (Training Packages), and complex skill tree system (Skill Categories and Skills) than RMC.

RMX from the description, looks like MERP rewritten and turned into generic fantasy.  A simpler and streamlined version of RMC.

Quote from: CRKrueger;358956RMC is just Rolemaster 2 rewritten and cleaned up.  It has a more basic single skill system.

RMFRP is basically RMSS redone and streamlined a bit from what I hear.  It has a more complex character creation (Training Packages), and complex skill tree system (Skill Categories and Skills) than RMC.

RMX from the description, looks like MERP rewritten and turned into generic fantasy.  A simpler and streamlined version of RMC.

Thank you, although I don't know what RM2 was/is like, and I don't know what RMSS is or is like either.

Well, Rolemaster started out as a series of generic D&D supplements for combat and magic, later character creation and campaign rules were added on.  Essentially RM is AD&D+.  The "A" is an important distinction.  Each profession buys skills at different prices and has different limits on how much a skill can be developed per level.  The weapon verses armour type thing is very fundamental to the combat system.  Spells are organized into Realms that reflect they style of casting and purchased as lists of related spells, such as Fire Law.

RM2 is just RM1 cleaned up and repackaged as a self contained roleplaying game.  It has fewer skills than RMSS and one less layer of detail in the skill system.  Stats are more random and stat gain rolls require a chart check.  Since every skill has a cost specific to each profession the addition of skills or professions creates a really big mass of charted data (even for RM).  Most new professions just rearrange profession bonuses and use a preexisting profession's development costs.  For instance a Hero uses a Fighter's development rates.  The range of options in the various companions pretty much ensured that no two groups were playing the same game.

Hence the need for a Standard System.

RMSS has more skills organized into categorys and proficiency must be developed in both skill and category.  Skills are priced by category.  Really I think that's where the main debate lies, if you could just buy one, the other, or both without being penalized I think both camps would be satisfied.  RMSS has around 600 skills.  However this is partly because spell lists and body development are treated as skills.  There's also some acrimony over special skills that are developed faster or slower.  Training packages are also introduced, allowing a character to buy a fixed skill package at a discount in exchange for being older.  It's a great feature that helps to control the profession bloat issue but it could have been executed a little better.

RMSS characters have much better starting skills.  Indeed a first level fighter can present a credible threat to a tenth level fighter.  They can take a little longer to make but there are ways to streamline it considerably.  RMSS is also very well supported with a wide range of supplements and a companion sf game.  RM2 had this feature but most aren't available due to difficulties with locating the authors and artists.

RMfrp was a somewhat misguided attempt to make RMSS more accessible and bridge the gap with RM2 fans.  It's okay as a sampler or a cheaper starting point.  The organization doesn't make much sense in the context of a single volume game but it's not the absolute organizational disaster that Spacemaster Privateers is.  There are things that really should be in there like the Grappling critical table but it's complete enough to get a feel for the game.

RMX is a RM2 / RMC based starter game that cuts down things much as RMfrp does though even I'll admit it's a better book than RMfrp.

Quote from: David Johansen;359023Well, Rolemaster started out as a series of generic D&D supplements for combat and magic, later character creation and campaign rules were added on.  Essentially RM is AD&D+.  The "A" is an important distinction.  Each profession buys skills at different prices and has different limits on how much a skill can be developed per level.  The weapon verses armour type thing is very fundamental to the combat system.  Spells are organized into Realms that reflect they style of casting and purchased as lists of related spells, such as Fire Law.

RM2 is just RM1 cleaned up and repackaged as a self contained roleplaying game.  It has fewer skills than RMSS and one less layer of detail in the skill system.  Stats are more random and stat gain rolls require a chart check.  Since every skill has a cost specific to each profession the addition of skills or professions creates a really big mass of charted data (even for RM).  Most new professions just rearrange profession bonuses and use a preexisting profession's development costs.  For instance a Hero uses a Fighter's development rates.  The range of options in the various companions pretty much ensured that no two groups were playing the same game.

Hence the need for a Standard System.

RMSS has more skills organized into categorys and proficiency must be developed in both skill and category.  Skills are priced by category.  Really I think that's where the main debate lies, if you could just buy one, the other, or both without being penalized I think both camps would be satisfied.  RMSS has around 600 skills.  However this is partly because spell lists and body development are treated as skills.  There's also some acrimony over special skills that are developed faster or slower.  Training packages are also introduced, allowing a character to buy a fixed skill package at a discount in exchange for being older.  It's a great feature that helps to control the profession bloat issue but it could have been executed a little better.

RMSS characters have much better starting skills.  Indeed a first level fighter can present a credible threat to a tenth level fighter.  They can take a little longer to make but there are ways to streamline it considerably.  RMSS is also very well supported with a wide range of supplements and a companion sf game.  RM2 had this feature but most aren't available due to difficulties with locating the authors and artists.

RMfrp was a somewhat misguided attempt to make RMSS more accessible and bridge the gap with RM2 fans.  It's okay as a sampler or a cheaper starting point.  The organization doesn't make much sense in the context of a single volume game but it's not the absolute organizational disaster that Spacemaster Privateers is.  There are things that really should be in there like the Grappling critical table but it's complete enough to get a feel for the game.

RMX is a RM2 / RMC based starter game that cuts down things much as RMfrp does though even I'll admit it's a better book than RMfrp.

Wow, sounds like RMX would be about as much as I'd be willing to invest actually. Thanks for the more detailed breakdown, that's what I needed. I'm thinking about picking up the RMX 6 book bundle.

Just keep it in mind that you're looking at a very minimal version of the rules.  The full game looks scary but it's really not that bad.

To my own thinking Rolemaster's advantage over D&D is that it does more.  When you cut that back too much you're better off playing D&D.  And this is I who have been rightfully accused of fighting a one man war against D&D saying that.

Quote from: David Johansen;359037Just keep it in mind that you're looking at a very minimal version of the rules.  The full game looks scary but it's really not that bad.

To my own thinking Rolemaster's advantage over D&D is that it does more.  When you cut that back too much you're better off playing D&D.  And this is I who have been rightfully accused of fighting a one man war against D&D saying that.

So is your opinion that RMX isn't worth it? Is RMX the point where I might as well play DnD, or is it still enough to be more than DnD but less than other RMs?

I guess it depends what you want.  RMX is still a more coherent game than any edition of D&D it just doesn't do a whole lot MORE.

Quote from: Sigmund;359159So is your opinion that RMX isn't worth it? Is RMX the point where I might as well play DnD, or is it still enough to be more than DnD but less than other RMs?

RMX is definitely worth checking out.  The PDF is only 5 USD and the print version 10 USD.  It has enough to run a campaign.  If you want to flesh it out a bit, you could always pick up an 'Express Addition' (only 2 USD each).

Quote from: David Johansen;359169I guess it depends what you want.  RMX is still a more coherent game than any edition of D&D it just doesn't do a whole lot MORE.

Good to know. I think I might check it out.

Quote from: Akrasia;359192RMX is definitely worth checking out.  The PDF is only 5 USD and the print version 10 USD.  It has enough to run a campaign.  If you want to flesh it out a bit, you could always pick up an 'Express Addition' (only 2 USD each).

What is contained in the "Express Additions"? Are thy what come in the 3 and 6 book bundles? Huh, now I can't find the bundles... also, I see where the differences between RMX and RMC are explained, missed that before.

I have now completed an RMFRP/RMSS Conversion document for Rolemaster Rome, to allow it to be used with those versions of the game!

Do you have a link to that?  I can mention it in my review that I'm finishing up.