Warning, much of this is second hand, I didn't grow up in this scene and have never participated in it.

I'm going to be talking here about homegrown French product, my impression is most French gamers play D&D, WoD and all the American games we know and love so well, this thread is about their own stuff though.

French rpgs tend to be all about the atmosphere, atmosphere is king in French rpg thought.  Systems are held to be largely unimportant, necessary tools but far from key to quality play.  Atmosphere however is critical.

French rpgs also have tended more towards either solid historical games, or to rather over the top sf/fantasy games.

The result is many French rpgs have great atmosphere, but poor mechanics.  French rpgs like Malefices drip with atmosphere, the mechanics are so so at best.  Te Deum pour un Massacre is a brilliant historical rpg with great detail on the chosen period, the mechanics suck and are vastly overcomplex.  There's a highly accurate pirates game I forget the name of, again very complex mechanics.

Since mechanics are seen as not so important to play, and as a necessary evil, they often seem to put up with clunkier mechanics than we would.  But the game product is often cooler, and when historical is vastly more accurate and detailed than most American ones.

The emphasis on atmosphere also leads to an idea that mechanics are for GMs, but that players shouldn't worry about them too much.  In Malefices part of chargen involves making a tarot card draw that determines something about your character, but which only the GM knows.  So, you may be playing an artist, but may unknowingly to you not have any real talent.  This took to its logical extreme in a game called IIRC Hurlements, in which the players didn't actually get to see the mechanics of their characters at all, only the GM got that, the goal being to remove mechanical barriers to atmosphere and identifying with the character.

So, atmosphere, detail, evocative settings, clunky or odd mechanics, these are things I tend to associate with French rpgs.

Quote from: BalbinusSince mechanics are seen as not so important to play, and as a necessary evil, they often seem to put up with clunkier mechanics than we would.

That's not entirely true. There are overcomplex and very simplistic games, just like in the US.

A Hurlements character had just 3 stats:
   Conan
Mental            40
Réflexe            20
Physique          50

(When the game was updated to a new edition it changed both the title and the rules system: Chimères had a WW-style dice pool system.)


A Légendes des Contrées Oubliées character fits on an index card (though your comment about general weirdness of mechanics applies):
   Uluk-le-Rouge   Mage
Force + 1, Agilité + 1, Perception + 3, Vitalité - 2, Intellect + 3
Esquive (6), Tactique (6), Charisme (3)
Épée longue (0/0), armure en pièces (1/1)


This is a complete write-up of a SimulacreS NSC:
   ● Enquêteur magicien. PNJ Moyen. Métier : Magicien enquêteur.
Talents : Criminologie + 1, Obversation + 1, Alchimie + 1, Botanique + 1.
Précision 1. Énergie : Divination 1 ou 2. Sorts : 3 sorts de la liste de Dinination.


Scales was another game that was high on atmosphere with minimalistic rules.

Quote(...)  This took to its logical extreme in a game called IIRC Hurlements, in which the players didn't actually get to see the mechanics of their characters at all, only the GM got that, the goal being to remove mechanical barriers to atmosphere and identifying with the character.

But then, in Hurlements weren't that many mechanics to begin with...


But I entirely agree with the focus on atmosphere. The rule books are full of excellent artwork. It helps that everyone and their brother is a comic artist in France (or so it seems).

Quote from: BalbinusSince mechanics are seen as not so important to play, and as a necessary evil, they often seem to put up with clunkier mechanics than we would.

I've heard tale that Qin is much slicker than Weapons of the Gods.

I own neither, so can't attest to the truth of this.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadI've heard tale that Qin is much slicker than Weapons of the Gods.

I own neither, so can't attest to the truth of this.

Qin is slick as a greased weasel in a butter churn.

-clash

Fuck the fucking French for getting Scars and Little Treasures some years before the original English was published.

Whew. Okay, I'm done. Back on-topic.

Quote from: BalbinusThere's a highly accurate pirates game I forget the name of, again very complex mechanics.

Is it Pavillon Noir?

I have no French RPG, but I'd want to, and this one looks cool...

Qin is one of the most mechanically brilliant systems I've seen in recent years, and its French.  So I don't think your theory holds.

RPGPundit

I think his theory is one of definition from center, not not definition by exclusion, Pundit. I do agree with you on Qin though.

-clash

Quote from: RPGPundit...I don't think your theory holds.

Oh, I don't know, man.  Particularly if we're talking about French RPGs from the 90's.  I remember working on a translation/adaptation of the Selenim book from MultiSim's Nephilim game.  Peppered here and there in the text were joyful exhortations to the effect of "If you find you need actual rules to address this situation, make them up!" The translation I was working from might have been a little blunt in the wording, but that's otherwise no exaggeration.  The emphasis was definitely on promoting atmosphere by means of GM and player description, not by means of mechanistic simulation.

!i!

Pavillion Noir was what I was thinking of.

Dirk, quite right and good correction, system doesn't matter coupled with atmosphere sur tout ends up often with clunky systems but sometimes with very light systems - in both cases for similar reasons.

Malefices for example was pretty light when I played it.

Pundy, I think you're responding to some other thread that says all French rpgs are indifferent to their mechanics, I'm talking about trends here.  If you look at the OP you'll find I use words like "tend" and "tended" a lot, rather than "all" or "without exception".  That's not wholly chance on my part.

Ian, spot on, that's what I'm talking about, atmosphere as the key driver.  A much greater reliance on GM fiat actually too, greater trust in the GM generally.

Quote from: flyingmiceI think his theory is one of definition from center, not not definition by exclusion, Pundit. I do agree with you on Qin though.

-clash

Quite, and FWIW I also think Qin is mechanically very sound.

But one Swallow does not a Summer make.  Besides, I'm talking historical design trends, perhaps things are improving on the mechanics front (or perhaps Qin is just a good game).

Pundy, Balbinus is right on. Further examples: Reve, Agone, Mechanical Dream (which for all intents & purposes is a French game).

I do understand how a GM-only approach to the rules might work on principle, and in fact Cali suggested the same thing a couple of months back. Then again, that was for OD&D, not for some bloated Shadowrun clone. How's a GM going to juggle five PCs plus NPCs behind the scenes with ease?

As for the atmosphere thing, well yes, but that describes a contradiction rather than resolving it. Combat and magic in Agone is simply bloody complicated. Figuring out half a dozen modifiers to my sword blow tends to deflate my immersion. How do the French ever cope with that?

Quote from: Pierce InverarityPundy, Balbinus is right on. Further examples: Reve, Agone, Mechanical Dream (which for all intents & purposes is a French game).

I do understand how a GM-only approach to the rules might work on principle, and in fact Cali suggested the same thing a couple of months back. Then again, that was for OD&D, not for some bloated Shadowrun clone. How's a GM going to juggle five PCs plus NPCs behind the scenes with ease?

As for the atmosphere thing, well yes, but that describes a contradiction rather than resolving it. Combat and magic in Agone is simply bloody complicated. Figuring out half a dozen modifiers to my sword blow tends to deflate my immersion. How do the French ever cope with that?

I'm not sure actually, I think often they barely apply the rules so it doesn't matter if they are either very light or utterly suck.

Given that choice, personally I'd prefer the very light option myself.

Quote from: BalbinusI'm not sure actually, I think often they barely apply the rules

But... but... that's just sick and wrong!

Quote from: Pierce InverarityBut... but... that's just sick and wrong!

Dude, they are French.