Pundit, you were half-correct when you forced James McMurray to ignore your posts before. But what you really should have done, and should do now, is put him on your ignore list.

The idea that you need to read his posts to run the site is not true, since this forum doesn't have the same kind of content-policing that others do. And anyway, jrients is also a moderator, and other users can still report his posts if he starts posting goat porn or something.

Bad call. Not the first. Won't be the last.

Now that we're on our way with our very own Rule 10 firmly in place, I'm betting we'll get our first real ban before the close of the year. Any takers for the pool?

Quote from: Christmas ApeBad call. Not the first. Won't be the last.

In your opinion was th bad call the particular sanction selected or taking any action at all?

QuoteNow that we're on our way with our very own Rule 10 firmly in place, I'm betting we'll get our first real ban before the close of the year. Any takers for the pool?

I'm not going to go back to RPGnet just to hunt down a Rule you don't like, dude.  But I've already said to the other admins that if James and Pundit continue to bump heads then Mr. McMurray won't last another month or two.

He meant, rpg.net rules & guidelines,

Rule 10: Respect our decisions. The moderation team reserves the right to warn, suspend, or permanently ban users judged to be acting against the spirit of the rules, even users conforming to the letter.

Translation: "If we don't like you, we'll get you no matter what." So Christmas Ape is saying that a moderator's personal dislike of a poster is influencing their moderation decisions.

Which is of course no shit.

Both RPGPundit and McMurray should learn to just drop it. Take that chip on your shoulder, and just drop it in the fire, and toast marshmallows over it. I mean, McMurray has had a go at me many times, and Dominus Nox had nothing but abuse for me - but when McMurray posted asking if we knew how to contact Nox, I offered suggestions. Why? Because, you know, why be a shit about things? Why jump into unrelated threads just to have a go at someone? Both McMurray and RPGPundit have threadcrapped on each-other many times. Grow the fuck up, and drop it.

I don't think we're to the point where the admins are demanding that you respect our authoritay, but in general I value the spirit of rules more than detailed legalistic interpretation of them.  So maybe he's right.

Quote from: J ArcaneYou may be naive enough to ignore that and pretend that it isn't going anywhere, but I'm not, and shit like his behavior towards James is a spectacular example of the fact that it's only a matter of time before he starts backing up those threats at his own whims.

Can we take this as a declaration of your intent to leave then?

Seanchai

Quote from: peteramthorPundit sees shit and doesn't read what they actually wrote.

I'm not Pundit. I definitely thought - think, really - James started the second thread to stir the pot.

Seanchai

I don't have a problem with either Pundit or James.  I read James' post the same way JimBob did, as a request for information on Nox.  The same was true about the thread Koltar necro'd, it wasn't a Nox baiting thread, it was just a joke.  

All that aside though, given the context of the history between Pundit and James, and the timing of James' thread I can understand why Pundit reached the conclusion that James was deliberately baiting him.  I'm a relatively new poster but Pundit doesn't strike me as thin skinned and he seems to tolerate a lot of personal attacks and disagreement with his positions as long as they don't become disruptive to the site.  Hell, Nox started a poll on what kind of asshole Pundit was and that didn't even get him banned.  The issue with Nox though is his situation became a disruption and it is understandable that Pundit wants to avoid a resurrection of the Nox show for that reason.

Not to second guess the decision in this case, but if you take James at his word it might defuse the tension to just reinstate his ability to post in open, delete the Nox thread he posted, and then ask for a "gentlemen's agreement" that we won't post or necro anymore Nox related threads.  That way James already has his answer on how to contact Nox, we won't get a repeat of the Nox show, James can prove he isn't trying to be disruptive since he won't have any reason to bring Nox up again, and the the free speech advocates can rest a little easier.

Just a suggestion.

Quote from: JimBobOzMcMurray did not start a thread inviting Nox back into the Off-Topic forum, he started a thread asking if anyone knew how to get in touch with him so he could discuss some rpg-related stuff with him.

No, he started a thread asking if anyone knew how to get a hold of him. He didn't say why. Moreover, the thread is titled, "Dominus Nox, Where Art Thou?" In other words, it's addressed to him.

Seanchai

Quote from: JimBobOzThe Off Topic subforum ban for McMurray is unnecessary and wrong. He does have the annoying habit of carrying a grudge about RPGPundit, but vice versa, so it comes out even. See, most of the posters here are sensible, we can call someone a cocksmock in one thread and agree with them in another. But certain posters - James McMurray, RPGPundit, J_Arcane, and a few others - just can't let shit go.

I've had several discussions with Pundit that weren't hate-fests, including being stoked about the release of his game, despite also calling him a retard for his latest paranoid rants. I've had several conversations with you that don't involve slinging shit, while thinking you're an over-controlling doof who thinks this site should be run exactly to his specifications and free speech be damned. I've had several RPG related conversations with Dominus Nox while simultaneously pointing and laughing at his ludicrous political ideas.

Saying I can't divorce the message from the messenger is outright wrong, and easily verified as such. Even Pundit has made a few constructive comments in threads I've started, just none (that I can remember) while I was currently pointing out something he was hilariously wrong about.

It's not that we can't get along. We've done it in the past when t he discussion was just about RPG and not about how this person or that idea is Swinish. The problem is that when I'm the one speaking out again Pundit it drives him into a frothing rage. And when Pundit writes something about X idea being swinish, or how such-and-such game is destroying the hobby, I don't restrain myself from joinging the chorus of people telling him he's a loon.

Then again, I shouldn't have to. Telling people they're a loon is part of the vision that this site is supposedly upholding.

Quote from: SeanchaiNo, he started a thread asking if anyone knew how to get a hold of him. He didn't say why. Moreover, the thread is titled, "Dominus Nox, Where Art Thou?" In other words, it's addressed to him.

Seanchai

It's addressed to him to be humorous. Dominus Nox is banned from Off Topic, and as far as anyone can tell doesn't come here anymore, except perhaps to look for threads he can bitch about on another site, but he seems to grab most of those from RPG.net and SJGame. Had I posted it in RPG open it would definitely have been addressed to him, but since it wasn't an RPG related topic I didn't.

I will say that I don't think there's anything wrong with addressing a thread to someone. Nox hasn't been banned, and I was looking to discuss RPG materials, which is tentaively what this site is about (when it isn't a rent fest against other boards). People post threads looking for another member at boards all the time. The only reason this one was wrong is because Pundit wanted Nox banned but wouldn't do it and was afraid he'd come back. He even censored a title of a thread for fear that would happen.

Had it been about Lev Lafayette (another guy Pundit wanted to ban) the response would probably have been the same (assuming someone had recently necroed a thread about Lev and Bagels).

Quote from: James McMurrayI will say that I don't think there's anything wrong with addressing a thread to someone.

No, there isn't.

But it's also not as if the people who feel you were up to something are completely without reason. 1. You followed up a bitter exchange about Nox with a brand new thread, asking how to get in touch with Nox. 2. The initial post doesn't mention why you want to get a hold of him. 3. You address the thread to him.

Quote from: James McMurrayNox hasn't been banned, and I was looking to discuss RPG materials, which is tentaively what this site is about (when it isn't a rent fest against other boards).

And if you'd said in your original post, "Hey, I want to talk to Nox about sci-fi games. How can I get a hold of him?" maybe only Pundit would think you were posting just to cause trouble.

Quote from: James McMurrayPeople post threads looking for another member at boards all the time.

They do, and if you'd said in your original post, "Hey, I want to talk to Nox about sci-fi games. How can I get a hold of him?" maybe only Pundit would think you were posting just to cause trouble.

Quote from: James McMurrayHad it been about Lev Lafayette (another guy Pundit wanted to ban) the response would probably have been the same (assuming someone had recently necroed a thread about Lev and Bagels).

Had you just been...discussing Lev Lafayette with Pundit just before you started a thread trying to find, yeah, I imagine the result would have been the same...

Seanchai

Quote from: SkyrockI may be new to this place, and I have only skimmed through James' posts, but what I see here worrys me.

I was attracted to theRPGsite because of the no-censoring no-arbitrary-mod-decisions no-forced-opinion-cuddling-for-the-sake-of-community policy, which is a welcome change to the other English and German RPG boards. To see that someone's access to a channel gets restricted because a single sysop is pissed off runs absolutely counter to this policy, and I have to think hard if I stay here or not. The actual and current discussions aren't much more worthwile than on any sane board else, but what fascinates me is the potential for fruitful discourse in such an no-holds-barred environment. If this potential vanishes because of the mood of "the invisible discussions of the powers that be", I see no convincing reason to take the language barrier and discuss here. If all what I wanted was controlled discourse under the supervision of an almighty community protector, I could have stayed in Germany.

Trust me, as long as you are not just disrupting the site to try to attack someone (whether its me or anyone else), you are allowed to disagree with and argue with and swear at and debate with anyone you want, including me.

So to sum up:
fighting and arguing with me: won't get you in trouble.
trying to harm the site or part of the site itself just to get back at me: will get you in trouble.

James' supposed reason for his post is a pathetic cover-story, which should be obvious to anyone who reads the comments he posted on the other thread immediately before starting his Nox invitation thread. In the previous thread, he noted that I'd taken the name "nox" out of the previous thread, he noted that i had "bowed to the will of the users", but that changing the name was a way for me to "hold onto my authority" (it wasn't, it was a way to allow people to talk about stupid fucking bagels without risking that the Nox issue would kill the still-delicate Off Topic forum), so he decided right after that to challenge that same "authority" by starting a thread with Nox's full name on it, asking him "where are you"?
If you or Jimbob really can't see his actual motives behind this, you're both blind.

RPGPundit

Quote from: hgjsPundit, you were half-correct when you forced James McMurray to ignore your posts before. But what you really should have done, and should do now, is put him on your ignore list.

The idea that you need to read his posts to run the site is not true, since this forum doesn't have the same kind of content-policing that others do. And anyway, jrients is also a moderator, and other users can still report his posts if he starts posting goat porn or something.

Around here, I don't bend to James' frivolous wishes. As much as he would like it otherwise, I'm the Admin here, and he's not. It would be ludicrous for me to censor my own reading just because of what James is writing.

RPGPundit

Quote from: SeanchaiNo, there isn't.

But it's also not as if the people who feel you were up to something are completely without reason. 1. You followed up a bitter exchange about Nox with a brand new thread, asking how to get in touch with Nox. 2. The initial post doesn't mention why you want to get a hold of him. 3. You address the thread to him.

Yep, and the reason I followed up an exchange about Nox with a hunt for him is fully explained in the thread. It isn't in the opening post, but I didn't realize that people were expected to lay out their motives when posting threads.

Yes, I figured it would piss Pundit off, but I honestly don't care if he gets pissed off. Waking up in the morning seems to anger the man, so I'd rather go barefoot than put on my eggshell shoes when I come to what is supposedly the frontier town of RPGs.

QuoteAnd if you'd said in your original post, "Hey, I want to talk to Nox about sci-fi games. How can I get a hold of him?" maybe only Pundit would think you were posting just to cause trouble.

True. And that's why I apologized to jrients for putting him in the position I did.

QuoteThey do, and if you'd said in your original post, "Hey, I want to talk to Nox about sci-fi games. How can I get a hold of him?" maybe only Pundit would think you were posting just to cause trouble.

True. And that's why I apologized to jrients for putting him in the position I did.

Wait. Is there an echo in here?