And once again I propose the Off-Topic Forum be dumped. It's just not worth it.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityAnd once again I propose the Off-Topic Forum be dumped. It's just not worth it.

...and I politely disagree.

 If done right , an off-topic section on any forum can be a friendly place for venting and for things that just don't seem to fit the other sub-forums.

...just my opinion , your kilometerage may vary....

- Ed C.

Quote from: James McMurrayIt isn't in the opening post, but I didn't realize that people were expected to lay out their motives when posting threads.

Of course they're not. By the same token, however, you don't get to play martyr when your post is taken the wrong way because your motive is unclear, particularly given the circumstances.

Quote from: James McMurrayYes, I figured it would piss Pundit off, but I honestly don't care if he gets pissed off.

That's what I figured. Personally, I feel you lose whatever moral high ground you might have when you intentionally provoke a response so that you can then cry foul...

Seanchai

This is Pundit and his views of me (liar, intentionally trying to destroy his community, etc). Eventually something I say is going to get his goat. If it's "intentionally provoking a response" to decide I no longer give a shit, then I'm guilty.

But when you say it was done so that I can cry foul you're wrong. And you're in danger of wearing the same "I can read minds and motives" goggles Pundit likes. Is there anything that either a) I can do to prove that idea wrong, or b) you can do to prove it right? If the answer to a is yes, tell me and I'll do it. If the answer to b is no, perhaps you're working with an opinion and treating it as fact?

Quote from: James McMurrayEventually something I say is going to get his goat.

That's likely. It's just a matter of whether or not you'll a) do that intentionally and b) do that in a way that's disruptive to the site as a whole.

Quote from: James McMurrayIf the answer to b is no, perhaps you're working with an opinion and treating it as fact?  

My conclusion absolutely an opinion. As far as I can see, it's absolutely a correct and apt opinion as well.

The facts are: You made a big deal about censorship in the Nox thread, then created a new thread in the wake of your disagreement. You admit that you knew Pundit would react poorly to it. The title is addressed Nox and you didn't explain why you wanted to get a hold of him in your initial post.

I believe you when you say the reason you want to get a hold of Nox is so that you can discuss sci-fi game. However, I believe the reason you created the thread and worded it as you did was to bait Pundit and prolong your censorship drama.

Seanchai

Quote from: RPGPunditIf you or Jimbob really can't see his actual motives behind this, you're both blind.

Shouldn't his motives be irrelevant? Shouldn't each user only be judged on their actions?

I mean if we're going to start delving into the reason each poster is here, aren't we opening a real Pandora's Box?

Quote from: Pierce InverarityAnd once again I propose the Off-Topic Forum be dumped. It's just not worth it.

To you. Do you post there? I mean if you just ignore that section of board, and if others do the same what difference does it make what happens there?

I mean I pretty much think the Amber section is a waste of space, but instead of bitching about it I just don't post there. I vote with my dollars and sense.

Quote from: Serious PaulShouldn't his motives be irrelevant? Shouldn't each user only be judged on their actions?

I mean if we're going to start delving into the reason each poster is here, aren't we opening a real Pandora's Box?

Ok, sure, I'll grant you this: the actual actions and not the motives for being here should be the judgement of whether to take any kind of moderator action. No doubt about that.

That is to say, if I doubt James McMurray's or, J Arcane or Blue Devil's motives for being here, it doesn't allow me to summarily ban them.

Its their actions that matter. And James took action. His action in and of itself was the disruption. Action that he now admitted he largely took in order to "get my goat". Action that, by trying to turn Off-topic back into "the Nox show", I judged to be detrimental to the functioning of the Off-topic forum as a whole.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditIts their actions that matter. And James took action. His action in and of itself was the disruption. Action that he now admitted he largely took in order to "get my goat". Action that, by trying to turn Off-topic back into "the Nox show", I judged to be detrimental to the functioning of the Off-topic forum as a whole.

Okay.

Well I'm off to the Chinese buffet folks, but it's been real! Pundit, you'll always be welcome at my gaming table. You and Jong always have a plate at the table.

Quote from: Serious PaulI mean I pretty much think the Amber section is a waste of space, but instead of bitching about it I just don't post there.

The Amber forum doesn't generate problems.

Seems like a place that valued free speech wouldn't have admins starting thread where they badmouth other members in subforums that they've just finished banning that member from. But that's fairly typical of Pundit's "dish it but don't take it" stance.

QuoteThe Amber forum doesn't generate problems.

Perhaps because it's mostly ignored? It definitely generated problems when it was first created. All sorts of people complained about favoritism, advertising, and I can't remember what else. Then they decided to ignore the forum they didn't like and the problems disappeared.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityThe Amber forum doesn't generate problems.

That's a point of view. From my own point of view it's different. But since I'm not into forcing my personal opinions and views on others I'll stick to just leaving things I don't like alone and voting with my feet, dollars and sense.

Now damn it, after a frickin' hours delay I really am off to eat some chinese food.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityAnd once again I propose the Off-Topic Forum be dumped. It's just not worth it.

I can't agree with this more.  If people really feel the need to discuss bagels, politics, Oscar nominations and such then they should make their own forum and invite the people they want over.  OT forums are just more trouble than they're worth and, contrary to Koltar's personal experience (YMMV of course), I've never seen them done right.

Let me hedge that a bit and say that the only time I see OT forums work is when you have a "semi-serious OT" (usually limited to music, movies, books, food, even politics/current events) and "kitchen sink" (keetooms, bagels, myspace wannabe's, "I'm having a bad day," vibes, etc).  

And I'm going to piss off Werekoala for bringing this up, but democraticunderground.com has an excellent feature where a user can essentially delete specific threads from their view.  There's no "this thread has been ignored," type of message -- it's just gone.  That would be a nifty feature to implement here, but I believe DU is a heavily homebrewed message board so I don't know how difficult that would be to implement.

Quote from: RPGPunditAction that he now admitted he largely took in order to "get my goat". Action that, by trying to turn Off-topic back into "the Nox show", I judged to be detrimental to the functioning of the Off-topic forum as a whole.

RPGPundit

That thread blew up because of you.  Simple reason enough.  All of the disruption after it was because of you.  If you hadn't posted into it and let it drop then there wouldn't even be this discussion going on.  The only person who has tried to turn it back into "the Nox show" is you.

To address the specific James vs. Pundit situation at hand:

In almost all Internet Drama cases, I think a simple matter of a PM exchange might have cleared up a lot of this mess.  In a perfect world it might have went something like this:

Pundit: "Did you just post that to fuck things up?"
James: "You know, in hindsight, I can see that it may seem that way but I assure you that's not the case."
Pundit: "Okay, just checking.  I know we have 'history' so I just wanted to clear that up."
James: "No problem!"

But this is the Internet, so Welcome to Stupidiotsville, population: Us.