This is an idea I've been tinkering with for years, and am leaning towards implementing it into my Bleeding Sky game.  The general gist is that rather than have a table of pre-made weapons, I'll have a mechanic in place where players create their own weapons.  This is primarily because there isn't any significant difference in a RPG between a Beretta 9mm and a Walther 9mm other than cosmetic, and it allows the players to have some customization.  I will probably have a weapon chart anyway, just as an example and for quick-start purposes, but the focus will be on individual weapon design.

Here is a rough draft of what the process would look like:






Step 1: Choose Rating-Group type.  Say you choose a rifle, so the first part of your weapon is "R" and you note the base stats

Step 2: Choose Rating-Ammunition.  Going with Cartridge.  Nothing fancy.  So far you're "RC"

Step 3: Rating-Breech.  Let's go with a hybrid.  "RC-H"

Step 4: Rating-Caliber.  Medium Caliber (like a 5.56 round).  So your weapon is "RC-H2".  Or essentially an M16 A2 or similar assault rifle.  On your character sheet, you would jot down in the appropriate fields:
RC-H2, Range: 25/150/300/500, Tech: 4, Init: +2, Weight: 8lbs, Dmg: Core+2, AB: +2, Cost: $750

As a comparison, a .50 cal sniper rifle would be: RA-B4 (Range: 62/375/750/1250, Tech: 3, Init: +2, Weight: 24 lbs, Dmg: 4xCore, AB: spec--anti material use special rules for armor bypass, Cost: $2500)

The second image is for accessories, if you so want them.  E.g., if you want to add a scope and collapsible stock, your final weapon would be: RC-H2-CP/SO

The acronyms might seem a bit weird initially, but you quickly get to know what they are, and it helps give the military flavor (since everything was acronymed).

Too complex?  Not complex (options) enough?  Just meh about the whole thing, or is this something you would want?

Way too complex, this is almost GURPSian in detail.
Not a thing i'd ever want from any RPG i'd buy.

Looks good to me, but then I made my own weapon design subsystem, so I'm mad by definition.

'll send it to you if you like! PM me!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;566418Looks good to me, but then I made my own weapon design subsystem, so I'm mad by definition.



-clash

If by "mad by definition", you mean the definition of a game designer, I totally agree.  I mean, what rational person does this kind of stuff?  

Quote from: Sacrosanct;566431If by "mad by definition", you mean the definition of a game designer, I totally agree.  I mean, what rational person does this kind of stuff?  

You got it!

-clash

I think it needs some kind of stop in place to keep people from going with the PG4-L3-CS/P.

Also, do you have an magazine size mechanic, or is it cinematic?

I think it's very intuitive and easy to use, especially compared to systems like Shadowrun or Cyberpunk.

Quote from: Panzerkraken;566502I think it needs some kind of stop in place to keep people from going with the PG4-L3-CS/P.

That would be sort of impossible.  You've essentially created a pistol 40mm corner shot suppressed grenade launcher that is lever action and fires large caliber ammo.  40mm grenade weapons don't have a caliber size because they do a set amount of damage regardless of where they are fired from.

And if a player said that's the weapon they wanted, I'd ask them to sketch it out for me  I would hope some common sense would prevent that sort of thing.


Of course, most of this is explained in the actual Rating Descriptions text, which you don't have, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt

QuoteAlso, do you have an magazine size mechanic, or is it cinematic?

I think it's very intuitive and easy to use, especially compared to systems like Shadowrun or Cyberpunk.

Magazine size is pretty much set since there isn't a whole lot of room for custom design.  It is just easier to have a table that says caliber size on one axis, magazine size (small, large, drum) on another axis, and have maximum capacity in the cells in between.

I do have a pretty extensive table for ammunition though.  Just for cartridges, there are the following options:
Armor Piercing (AP)
Birdshot
Buck Shot
FMJ
Frangible
Hollow-point
Hydra shock
Soft Tip
Mixed alloy
Sabot
Smooth bore rifled slug
THV
Tracer
Slug, armor piercing
Slug, frangible

Looks alright to me, is there a method for completely new technologies included? Like say a weapon that shoots shuriken, or one that flings teddy bears with lethal force?

Quote from: Sacrosanct;566508That would be sort of impossible.  You've essentially created a pistol 40mm grenade launcher that is lever action and fires large caliber ammo.  40mm grenade weapons don't have a caliber size because they do a set amount of damage regardless of where they are fired from.

Of course, most of this is explained in the actual Rating Descriptions text, which you don't have, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt

Magazine size is pretty much set since there isn't a whole lot of room for custom design.  It is just easier to have a table that says caliber size on one axis, magazine size (small, large, drum) on another axis, and have maximum capacity in the cells in between.

I do have a pretty extensive table for ammunition though.  Just for cartridges, there are the following options:
Armor Piercing (AP)
Birdshot
Buck Shot
FMJ
Frangible
Hollow-point
Hydra shock
Soft Tip
Mixed alloy
Sabot
Smooth bore rifled slug
THV
Tracer
Slug, armor piercing
Slug, frangible

I WAS trying to pick the most obnoxious-seeming combination  And don't forget that it was corner shot and suppressed, ideal for those quiet takedowns

How do you handle double weapons or undermounts like the M320 or 203, or something like the XM29?  A weapons mating component would work for that, I suppose.

Quote from: Panzerkraken;566514How do you handle double weapons or undermounts like the M320 or 203, or something like the XM29?  A weapons mating component would work for that, I suppose.

I don't have the rules in front of me anymore, but if I recall, under the various weapon descriptions, there is a paragraph that they would be considered PG4-1, or "pistol, 40mm grenade, breech load"

There will be plenty of examples given so people can get a good idea.

And I disagree with the following statement completely (at least to how it's applied in what follows).

Quote from: Sacrosanct;566331This is primarily because there isn't any significant difference in a RPG between a Beretta 9mm and a Walther 9mm other than cosmetic,

As to the rest, way too much work for something that is as flavor-less as a short generic weapon list.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;566540I don't have the rules in front of me anymore, but if I recall, under the various weapon descriptions, there is a paragraph that they would be considered PG4-1, or "pistol, 40mm grenade, breech load"

There will be plenty of examples given so people can get a good idea.

Again, I like it.  I also like that for the most part, each weapon will wind up with a nice "Pattern Designation" (to borrow from 40k) that will provide individualization for the players.

I could even see a weapons vending machine selling made-to order guns on streetcorners in the sprawl.

"Hold on bud, gotta pick up another poly-shot and some rounds before we hit this liquor store"

Quote from: gleichman;566541And I disagree with the following statement completely (at least to how it's applied in what follows).

Curious.  May I ask why?  I mean, sure there are differences if you go into a really micro level, but then you end up with thousands of weapons that really don't have any major significant difference in the context of an RPG.  Do people playing an RPG really sit and do ballistics calculations to capture realism?

QuoteAs to the rest, way too much work for something that is as flavor-less as a short generic weapon list.

Well, it's not just a stand alone.  It's part of the Bleeding Sky game, which is a post-apocalyptic setting.  So having custom creation sort of fits the "scavenge pieces and put together a weapon" theme

Quote from: Sacrosanct;566547Curious.  May I ask why?  I mean, sure there are differences if you go into a really micro level, but then you end up with thousands of weapons that really don't have any major significant difference in the context of an RPG.

The fact that significant differences exist is why there are so many weapons produced even of roughly the same type.

The ability to show off those differences depends upon the system being used. I was somewhat amazed at how much (i.e. differences between weapons) I was able to squeeze into HERO System for example. Lighter rule systems have less room to show anything and thus at the extreme end all firearms become a 'gun' and nothing more.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;566547Do people playing an RPG really sit and do ballistics calculations to capture realism?

Some do. Others like that fact that some do.

Yet others don't care at all, and the guns can come straight out Elmer Fudd's hands for all they care.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;566547Well, it's not just a stand alone.  It's part of the Bleeding Sky game, which is a post-apocalyptic setting.  So having custom creation sort of fits the "scavenge pieces and put together a weapon" theme

Custom setting can get away with many sins, and it would be wrong of me to assume that the weapons presented in "Bleeding Sky" mirror the performance and construction of those of the real world.

So you can get away with want you like and should consider my comments to apply to a near-real world simulation.

Quote from: gleichman;566555The fact that significant differences exist is why there are so many weapons produced even of roughly the same type..

I won't disagree that there is a difference, but in the context of an rpg, what is the significant difference between a Walther 9mm PPS and a Beretta 9mm 92F?  If the same ammo is used, there isn't one.  You might say a standard 7 round magazine vs 13 round, but that's a magazine difference and you don't need to list all 9mm handguns with different magazine sizes.  Just allow them all to use varying magazines and keep it easy.  You could also say the PPS weighs 13 oz less, but again, you could just say "lightweight" vs "normal" handgun.

I think if you get too far into the differences, you have a ton of bloat and you end up spending more time comparing guns than you do playing the game.