RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)

[Stephen Tannhauser]

There's always been identity politics. Americans have always identified themselves into some large groups, like Christian, conservative, republican, democrat, etc.

That's superficially correct, but you're overlooking a key point.

The groups for which the Right advocates are groups defined primarily by the individual members' choice to belong to them: firearms owners, traditional religious believers, nuclear families, business owners, constitutional originalists, etc. The groups for which the Left advocates are defined by the characteristics deemed innate to their member individuals by birth, or deemed to be so heavily influenced by conditions of birth or background that individually escaping them is impractical: ethnicity/race, sex, orientation, mental conditions, socioeconomic class, single motherhood, etc.

This difference in definition is critical to why SJ identity politics is more toxic than standard in-group political loyalty: it assumes that its group members' interests are innately fixed a priori of any given political context, defines all its member groups as unjustly victimized in a way that requires Leftist collectivist policy to redress, and arrogates to the leaders of the movement the prerogative to set those policies based on the leaders' interpretations of what the member groups actually need. Identity politics is essentially a way to polarize the battlefield by putting a uniform on both your own forces and your enemies' that neither can take off, and it makes finding peaceful solutions of compromise even more difficult than normal.

[oggsmash]

  The last 60 or so years has mostly been driving the right towards bootstrapping themselves/individuality/making it on their own steam sort of stuff.   Pushing racial identity politics that are openly hostile to other races is going to cause the right to decide to fight fire with fire at some point.  If that happens the left is fucked.  Bigly.  My suggestion would be to approach an injustice as just that on the merits actually present now in real time.  Keep pushing the hatred of the "whiteness" and that is going to go off like a nuclear bomb.

[jeff37923]

Ok, people are talking about identity politics in a negative way abd of course blaming ''SJWs', the 'WOKE' and the left in general.

Well, you're fucking wrong to blame it on the left. Identity politics has been a part of human, and american,  history from the beginning. There's always been identity politics. Americans have always identified themselves into some large groups, like Christian, conservative, republican, democrat, etc.

The right practiced hardcore identity politics starting in the late 40's, identifying themselves as 'real Americans, red blooded god fearing Americans '. Then then identified everyone whowasn't exactly like them as 'godless pinko commie queer traitor scum'.

The right never had a problem with identity politics as long as it kept them united into a monolithic voting block.

They only complained when 'others' begsn decelopibg their own identities to unite against them.

So this making like the keft incebted identity politics is bullshit.

"'There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know." - Works of Thomas Chalkley

You really need to take off those leftist rose-colored glasses and use some objectivity.

[Eirikrautha]

There's always been identity politics. Americans have always identified themselves into some large groups, like Christian, conservative, republican, democrat, etc.

That's superficially correct, but you're overlooking a key point.

The groups for which the Right advocates are groups defined primarily by the individual members' choice to belong to them: firearms owners, traditional religious believers, nuclear families, business owners, constitutional originalists, etc. The groups for which the Left advocates are defined by the characteristics deemed innate to their member individuals by birth, or deemed to be so heavily influenced by conditions of birth or background that individually escaping them is impractical: ethnicity/race, sex, orientation, mental conditions, socioeconomic class, single motherhood, etc.

This difference in definition is critical to why SJ identity politics is more toxic than standard in-group political loyalty: it assumes that its group members' interests are innately fixed a priori of any given political context, defines all its member groups as unjustly victimized in a way that requires Leftist collectivist policy to redress, and arrogates to the leaders of the movement the prerogative to set those policies based on the leaders' interpretations of what the member groups actually need. Identity politics is essentially a way to polarize the battlefield by putting a uniform on both your own forces and your enemies' that neither can take off, and it makes finding peaceful solutions of compromise even more difficult than normal.

Your comment was insightful, nuanced, and shows a careful consideration of the specifics of this discussion.  Therefore it is entirely wasted on that smooth-brain, who only deals in generalizations and invective.  But, I appreciate your attempt.

[Ratman_tf]

So this making like the keft incebted identity politics is bullshit.

Good thing no one claimed that. We're talking about the recent left/progressive/activist concept of identity politics. Do try to keep up with the conversation if you're going to participate.

[Stephen Tannhauser]

Your comment was insightful, nuanced, and shows a careful consideration of the specifics of this discussion.  Therefore it is entirely wasted....  But, I appreciate your attempt.

Much obliged; I always subscribe to the notion that being clear about definitions never hurts, and at least this way it's on the record to be referred to.

Battlemaster isn't wrong to point out that since politics is about the art of interest groups pooling influence to achieve common goals, all such coalitions have an interest in making loyalty to that coalition difficult to forsake, and sometimes do so through toxic means. I just think SJ philosophy leads logically to inherently toxic loyalty structures in a way traditional religion and classical liberalism don't necessarily have to.

[Ghostmaker]

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sub-zero-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.899363/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/liu-kang-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.899390/

These two are probably the same guy. The funny part is that Aikireikinu seems completely oblivious to the points made, instead simply blowing them off as trolls.

But then, self-awareness is not a strong point of TBP mods.

[wmarshal]

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sub-zero-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.899363/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/liu-kang-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.899390/

These two are probably the same guy. The funny part is that Aikireikinu seems completely oblivious to the points made, instead simply blowing them off as trolls.

But then, self-awareness is not a strong point of TBP mods.

I think the mods are very aware. Particularly with sub zero's ban. He was pointing out that many lefties claimed the 2016 election was hacked and questioned the election's legitimacy. Some lefties also rioted. To point out any similarity between what nonsense some lefties were spewing in 2016, and what some Trump supporters are spewing now is "100% completely different, and if similar it's actually only bad when Trumpers do it, and now I ban you because this is the kind of badthink that interferes with our cult hive-mind."

The Woke believe that any transgression of norms can only legitimately be done by their side, and nobody else could ever reply in kind, and perhaps to a greater degree. Think of when the Dems removed the filibuster for judicial appointments other than Supreme Court Justices, and their reaction when the Repubs removed the filibuster for the Supreme Court. Many of the Dems screamed in reaction. They're using similar language and assumptions when they talk of packing the Supreme Court. People try to point out that the Repubs will reply in kind, but the truly Woke just cover their ears and just babble on about packing the court.

Aikireikinu is surely aware of sub zero's point, but the Woke have to portray the Jan 6th riots as worse than Pearl Harbor and 9/11 put together. If they reflected that if the Woke rioted for months on end, and this may have led some on the right to conclude that they could also riot to make a point, well that might cause some of the Woke to conclude there might need to be less rioting overall. I think many on the Left hate Rittenhouse more because his shooting his attackers caused the Kenosha riots to die down quickly, and not so much about the 2 individuals he killed, and the other he wounded.

Normal people, left-right-middle, think there ought to be no rioting at all, but the Woke are pro-riot. When Trumper righties show up to riot, "OMG, this is the worst thing ever, and we've never engaged in similar activity."  Ditto with questioning the legitimacy of an election. Heaven forbid if anyone point out that some Dem Congressmen tried to question the Electoral votes for George H. W. Bush in 2000 and 2004, but when some Repubs did the same thing in 2020 then objecting to Electoral votes is Insurrection!!! Stupid and futile actions by your opponent doesn't equal whatever is the worst crime you can think of if you're being honest. But the Woke is a cult and therefore they can't be honest.

Sub zero's point was relatively mild, and he was engaging with other users at TBP, but that engagement was the problem, not sub zero's point in and of itself. So when Aikireikinu lowered the ban that was almost certainly to preclude badthink, and not because sub zero's point was inherently horrendous.

[Ghostmaker]

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/%E2%80%9Cand-the-girls%E2%80%9D.899403/

What an amazingly pathetic display. Really. Mildly obscure song reference -- I admit I've never heard the tune -- but oh no, it's objectifying, we can't have that.

That place can't die fast enough for me.

[HappyDaze]

That place can't die fast enough for me.

Really? You seem to enjoy the fuel they so regularly bring to your fire that is this thread.

[3catcircus]

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sub-zero-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.899363/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/liu-kang-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.899390/

These two are probably the same guy. The funny part is that Aikireikinu seems completely oblivious to the points made, instead simply blowing them off as trolls.

But then, self-awareness is not a strong point of TBP mods.

I think the mods are very aware. Particularly with sub zero's ban. He was pointing out that many lefties claimed the 2016 election was hacked and questioned the election's legitimacy. Some lefties also rioted. To point out any similarity between what nonsense some lefties were spewing in 2016, and what some Trump supporters are spewing now is "100% completely different, and if similar it's actually only bad when Trumpers do it, and now I ban you because this is the kind of badthink that interferes with our cult hive-mind."

The Woke believe that any transgression of norms can only legitimately be done by their side, and nobody else could ever reply in kind, and perhaps to a greater degree. Think of when the Dems removed the filibuster for judicial appointments other than Supreme Court Justices, and their reaction when the Repubs removed the filibuster for the Supreme Court. Many of the Dems screamed in reaction. They're using similar language and assumptions when they talk of packing the Supreme Court. People try to point out that the Repubs will reply in kind, but the truly Woke just cover their ears and just babble on about packing the court.

Aikireikinu is surely aware of sub zero's point, but the Woke have to portray the Jan 6th riots as worse than Pearl Harbor and 9/11 put together. If they reflected that if the Woke rioted for months on end, and this may have led some on the right to conclude that they could also riot to make a point, well that might cause some of the Woke to conclude there might need to be less rioting overall. I think many on the Left hate Rittenhouse more because his shooting his attackers caused the Kenosha riots to die down quickly, and not so much about the 2 individuals he killed, and the other he wounded.

Normal people, left-right-middle, think there ought to be no rioting at all, but the Woke are pro-riot. When Trumper righties show up to riot, "OMG, this is the worst thing ever, and we've never engaged in similar activity."  Ditto with questioning the legitimacy of an election. Heaven forbid if anyone point out that some Dem Congressmen tried to question the Electoral votes for George H. W. Bush in 2000 and 2004, but when some Repubs did the same thing in 2020 then objecting to Electoral votes is Insurrection!!! Stupid and futile actions by your opponent doesn't equal whatever is the worst crime you can think of if you're being honest. But the Woke is a cult and therefore they can't be honest.

Sub zero's point was relatively mild, and he was engaging with other users at TBP, but that engagement was the problem, not sub zero's point in and of itself. So when Aikireikinu lowered the ban that was almost certainly to preclude badthink, and not because sub zero's point was inherently horrendous.

I don't think there should be rioting (rather, antifa leftist terrorism - call it what it is). But when there is, I think normal people who just want to be left alone need to take up arms and make the streets flow with rivers of blood from the "rioters.". Every time a Maxine Waters or Chuck Schumer call for violence, there needs to be someone duly deputized to knock their teeth out and those of their treasonous followers.  It would certainly put a damper on the left if Judge Kavanaugh sent someone to their maker instead of sneaking out the back door of a restaurant in response to being accosted. It's been 35 days since someone tried to assassinate a SCOTUS member and the White House remains silent on it.

[Dan Davenport]

The latest bullshit: Pearl-clutching over a superhero RPG called "Crusaders".

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/olivier-legrand-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-%E2%80%93-dismissal-of-concerns-about-racism-and-other-problematic-topics.899449/#post-24430546

[wmarshal]

The latest bullshit: Pearl-clutching over a superhero RPG called "Crusaders".

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/olivier-legrand-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-%E2%80%93-dismissal-of-concerns-about-racism-and-other-problematic-topics.899449/#post-24430546

That's hilarious in a way. In Jeff Dee's Villains and Vigilantes game the main super hero group is called the Crusaders. Jeff is super-Woke to the point that years ago at a convention game he was running the pregenerated characters he provided had cis and trans as part of the character stats. I wonder if he'll feel like he has to rebrand his super hero group now that the Eye of the Woke has gazing disapprovingly at the term crusader in a super hero game.

His con game was also very homoerotic in a Venture Bros. kind of way. It was perhaps unintentional on his part, as he disapproved at the laughs we had at the table over the fact that the super villain group the Crushers, literally had a crush on the Crusaders. The evil plot our junior cadet heroes were supposed to foil was that the Crushers were going to steal a decommissioned former Crusaders super jet, and then fly by the Crusaders headquarters to taunt them that they had stolen their old plane. "Look at us, Crusaders! Pay attention to us!" We we're imagining the Crushers playing a love song over loud speakers like a John Hughes movie. The dots to connect were all there in plain sight. Nope, being a junior cadet super hero is all very serious Woke business to Jeff.

[oggsmash]

  I wonder if those dipshits realize how many High School football teams have the name "Crusaders"?   

[wmarshal]

  I wonder if those dipshits realize how many High School football teams have the name "Crusaders"?

Having more targets to call out and try to shame into approved mascots is a bonus to the Woke.