TheRPGSite

Fan Forums => The RPGPundit's Own Forum => Topic started by: Ghostmaker on July 27, 2021, 08:10:46 AM

Title: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 27, 2021, 08:10:46 AM
After consulting with the staff (talked to Pundit), I'm starting a new thread here to discuss the ongoing unintentional hilarity that is RPGnet.

Let's check out the latest casualties. I see Thorn Drumheller got the heave ho -- sorry, Thorn. My guess is they didn't like what you had to say here, or elsewhere.

It should come as no surprise that they're all up in arms about Sandy Petersen, because he's a meany who won't kiss their ring. Wah wah wah.

Here's one that I find particularly amusing: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/katastrophe-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban-and-threadban-bad-sexist-takes.884676/

Now, if they'd gigged him for 'negativity' or 'threadcrapping' it would've still been bullshit but at least it would be consistent bullshit. But rolling out the excuse of 'tired MRA talking points'? I guess they've completely missed how Kevin Smith lied through his teeth about the plot of MOTU:Revelation. Or they're just dishonest. My money's on dishonest.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on July 28, 2021, 08:17:57 AM
I really do not know what has gone on with the moderators there.  I remember there was a shift in tone years ago, and then that shift really went into overdrive.  I visited the site last year, and saw it was now just insanity.  I do not understand having a political forum on the site where you are not allowed, in any way, to show any support whatsoever for what half the country voted for.   It would seem just do not have a political forum if you have rules like that. 

   I remember years ago the forum was useful for asking about games and discussion of same, now it looks like people are wondering if they will be banned for showing any sort of individual opinion about anything.  The "tired MRA talking points" is a great example of same, those talking points are "tired" because hollywood/media are doing the exact things the dude that got a one day ban was complaining about all the time. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ocule on July 28, 2021, 08:19:52 AM
RPG net is such cancer I -site:rpg.net them from my search results just so I don’t have to look at their bullshit. If you go to their bans overall they’re pretty funny at how petty that mod team is
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on July 28, 2021, 08:55:57 AM
After consulting with the staff (talked to Pundit), I'm starting a new thread here to discuss the ongoing unintentional hilarity that is RPGnet.

Let's check out the latest casualties. I see Thorn Drumheller got the heave ho -- sorry, Thorn. My guess is they didn't like what you had to say here, or elsewhere.

It should come as no surprise that they're all up in arms about Sandy Petersen, because he's a meany who won't kiss their ring. Wah wah wah.

Here's one that I find particularly amusing: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/katastrophe-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban-and-threadban-bad-sexist-takes.884676/

Now, if they'd gigged him for 'negativity' or 'threadcrapping' it would've still been bullshit but at least it would be consistent bullshit. But rolling out the excuse of 'tired MRA talking points'? I guess they've completely missed how Kevin Smith lied through his teeth about the plot of MOTU:Revelation. Or they're just dishonest. My money's on dishonest.

Thanks man. It's really no loss cause I was not a fit for their totalitarian regime. I started there back in the day when it really was a ton of good rpg ideas going on. Games were discussed and support was given. That board really isn't about rpg's anymore, they realize it but don't want to admit it. All the good posters were either banned or left the site. So it's a shame it's turned into such a hollow shell.

And yeah, I watched the first two episodes and, since I'm trying to remove things in my life that get my blood pressure up, I'm not finishing the series. Now if I'd seen this as I kid I might like it but there's a reason the last three Star Wars movies sucked......but that's the direction stupidwood is going for entertainment.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 28, 2021, 09:50:59 AM
Thanks man. It's really no loss cause I was not a fit for their totalitarian regime. I started there back in the day when it really was a ton of good rpg ideas going on. Games were discussed and support was given. That board really isn't about rpg's anymore, they realize it but don't want to admit it. All the good posters were either banned or left the site. So it's a shame it's turned into such a hollow shell.
They'll never admit they're doing all the purging that you warned about back in 2019 (and promptly ate a 30-day ban for).

Elvs Waxman just ate a similar ban (bumped from one to thirty days) for expressing similar concerns about purges and purity spirals.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvis-waxman-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban.884716/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvis-waxman-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-derailing-group-attack.884720/

Frankly, I would suggest Elvis go ahead and jump ship. Judging from his prior 'infractions', I believe the mods have decided he needs to go.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 28, 2021, 10:48:53 AM
I really do not know what has gone on with the moderators there.  I remember there was a shift in tone years ago, and then that shift really went into overdrive.
I remember when RPG.net made sane objections to RPG contents. For example, when I read 3.5E "Races of the Wild" I didn't like how halflings were presented as a stereotype of Roma people. It was disgusting and even reductive. Shortly later I stumbled into a review of the book on RPG.net, and it was the only one that made the same point.

Then things exploded - everywhere. There are actual studies on why this happened, with the majority of them pointing out a perfect storm of events happening in a short time: the #metoo movement, gamersgate... the big one possibly was the election of a certain US President. Even if wokeism was already on the rise, that was like throwing a molotov cocktail in a room already saturated by gas, Boom.

And, for some reason, the "guardians" of popular culture (critics, actors, content creators and the like) decided that it was their job to become... dunno, PALADINS of what was moral and just - sane reasoning be damned.

I saw this degradation happening in real time on "The Guardian". Sure, they are (well, were) a bastion of liberal thought. However, they had no problems in hammering something with leftist contents if they felt that the quality of the work was shoddy. Today, I guess that they wrote their five stars review of MOTU even before the show was out.

And this created a widening disconnection between these PALADINS and the sane, normal people. I.e. "The Guardians of Culture" are guarding, via their screamed sentences, an increasingly empty keep.

"Variety"!! Your job is to publish a fair assessment of events inherent to the entertainment sector, not to write sad articles like this one: https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/he-man-masters-of-the-universe-revelation-kevin-smith-netflix-1235026831/

"Kevin Smith Made Netflix’s ‘Masters of the Universe: Revelation’ Specifically to Please ‘He-Man’ Fans. Some Got Mad Anyway."

...Because you are lying. He-Man is not in the show. This is why He-Man fans got mad. Also, you support a liar who claimed for months that the rumors of a "female-centric" show were false - only to put out a female-centric show.

No "Variety": your job is to call out Kevin Smith and question him frankly for his jokes - not to arbitrarily support something because it is woke.

Even worse, this already happened. "Star Wars" is a shining example. When "The Last Jedi" destroyed the franchise and had the fans up in arms, the answer was not an analysis of what went wrong, but this:

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a25560063/how-fans-ruined-star-wars-the-last-jedi-2018/

"The Year Star Wars Fans Finally Ruined Star Wars
In 2018, a loud movement of racist, misogynist trolls derailed the beloved family sci-fi franchise."


Maybe you will notice a pattern.

But we also have the result. No more toy sales, empty "Star Wars" attractions in Disney parks, a widely panned third movie that made half of the first, and finally this:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/gross-altman-star-wars-mandalorian/619016/

"How Disney Mismanaged the Star Wars Universe
And how The Mandalorian can restore the true power of George Lucas’s galaxy"


Boy, was it so hard to understand? I guess that there is nothing like haemorrhaging money to get someone's attention...

Be assured that it is the "Star Wars" pattern what we already saw (like, for example, with "Ghostbusters", but also the 2021 edition of the Oscars) and that we will see. It will always go this way.

What is worrying is that once upon a time the entertainment industry had a "herd mentality". "Star Wars" is a hit? Let's do our Star Wars! "Mars Needs Moms" was a flop? Let's drop "Mars" from "John Carter of Mars" (believe it or not, this is what happened). "Magic: the Gathering" exploded as the new way of playing? Let's rush out our card game!

Today? "Star Wars" loses a s*it-ton of money and no one learns the lesson. No one even copies the right way to handle things even if he doesn't understand why, just out of prudence. No. "He-Man" gets woke and "Variety" repeats the same mistakes that doomed Star Wars.

I'll follow from my window the sales of He-Man toys. It will be an interesting view.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on July 28, 2021, 11:35:21 AM
Thanks man. It's really no loss cause I was not a fit for their totalitarian regime. I started there back in the day when it really was a ton of good rpg ideas going on. Games were discussed and support was given. That board really isn't about rpg's anymore, they realize it but don't want to admit it. All the good posters were either banned or left the site. So it's a shame it's turned into such a hollow shell.
They'll never admit they're doing all the purging that you warned about back in 2019 (and promptly ate a 30-day ban for).

Elvs Waxman just ate a similar ban (bumped from one to thirty days) for expressing similar concerns about purges and purity spirals.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvis-waxman-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban.884716/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvis-waxman-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-derailing-group-attack.884720/

Frankly, I would suggest Elvis go ahead and jump ship. Judging from his prior 'infractions', I believe the mods have decided he needs to go.

Oh.... well then. They did ban Elvis for rational thought. Well, Elvis should read the writing on the wall (mod red text) cause they're not long for big purp.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 28, 2021, 11:53:15 AM
Thanks man. It's really no loss cause I was not a fit for their totalitarian regime. I started there back in the day when it really was a ton of good rpg ideas going on. Games were discussed and support was given. That board really isn't about rpg's anymore, they realize it but don't want to admit it. All the good posters were either banned or left the site. So it's a shame it's turned into such a hollow shell.
They'll never admit they're doing all the purging that you warned about back in 2019 (and promptly ate a 30-day ban for).

Elvs Waxman just ate a similar ban (bumped from one to thirty days) for expressing similar concerns about purges and purity spirals.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvis-waxman-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban.884716/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvis-waxman-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-derailing-group-attack.884720/

Frankly, I would suggest Elvis go ahead and jump ship. Judging from his prior 'infractions', I believe the mods have decided he needs to go.

Oh.... well then. They did ban Elvis for rational thought. Well, Elvis should read the writing on the wall (mod red text) cause they're not long for big purp.
When I see something trotted out like 'prior infractions' or 'not a good fit' for an account that's been there since 2003, I like to search through the Infractions forum for these actual 'prior infractions'. In a lot of cases it's penny-ante bullshit, or ginned up to justify their stupidity and hypocrisy.

Coherent thought really isn't a trait they breed for in wokeism. They don't need to be coherent or consistent because they are always the Good Guys. Regardless of what they do, it's Always Right (I referred to this as 'informed morality', a pun on the trope informed ability). And it's a mentality usually only seen in religious zealots, which is why it's so surprising to encounter.

But they really don't know how to handle it when reality backhands them. When films and shows tank hard, when the money they were expecting fails to materialize, they can't say, 'Huh, maybe this was a bad idea'. It's like the meme of Principal Skinner. 'No, no, it's the consumers who must be wrong.' And so it goes with SW, and He-Man, and yes, RPGnet. They cannot be wrong. They are the Good Guys (as Reckall notes, the 'paladins' of this play). And so it must be some evil haters' fault!

If you've ever read about the Soviet system, and the Gulag Archipelago, a great 'danger' in the system were 'wreckers', who would (somehow) derail, delay, or disrupt proper production and handling of resources. If you raised objections to a process because it was stupid, nonsensical, illogical, or dangerous, you were a wrecker, and you had better change your ways or you had a prison term waiting for you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KingCheops on July 28, 2021, 12:47:54 PM
Even worse, this already happened. "Star Wars" is a shining example. When "The Last Jedi" destroyed the franchise and had the fans up in arms, the answer was not an analysis of what went wrong, but this:

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a25560063/how-fans-ruined-star-wars-the-last-jedi-2018/

"The Year Star Wars Fans Finally Ruined Star Wars
In 2018, a loud movement of racist, misogynist trolls derailed the beloved family sci-fi franchise."


Maybe you will notice a pattern.

But we also have the result. No more toy sales, empty "Star Wars" attractions in Disney parks, a widely panned third movie that made half of the first, and finally this:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/gross-altman-star-wars-mandalorian/619016/

"How Disney Mismanaged the Star Wars Universe
And how The Mandalorian can restore the true power of George Lucas’s galaxy"


Boy, was it so hard to understand? I guess that there is nothing like haemorrhaging money to get someone's attention...

Be assured that it is the "Star Wars" pattern what we already saw (like, for example, with "Ghostbusters", but also the 2021 edition of the Oscars) and that we will see. It will always go this way.

The truly crazy thing is that the Mandalorian did a better job of female empowerment than the sequel trilogy did by being realistic and not propaganda.  And then the Paladins went and kicked off one of the better female role models on the show!  My daughter doesn't really give two shits about Rey but boy oh boy did she love Cara Dune.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 28, 2021, 01:57:25 PM
Funny how we're just a vocal minority and publishers/directors/studios/etc shouldn't pay attention to what we want but we're also powerful enough that a "small minority" of angry, manbaby, misogynerds can destroy Star Wars.

Misogynerds of the world unite!!!!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on July 28, 2021, 02:12:34 PM
Funny how we're just a vocal minority and publishers/directors/studios/etc shouldn't pay attention to what we want but we're also powerful enough that a "small minority" of angry, manbaby, misogynerds can destroy Star Wars.

Misogynerds of the world unite!!!!

LOL, so true
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 28, 2021, 02:33:11 PM
They've really been leaning into the "A Game" excuse to find reasons to censure and ban posters lately.

NOT WOKE ENOUGH!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 28, 2021, 02:52:35 PM
They've really been leaning into the "A Game" excuse to find reasons to censure and ban posters lately.

NOT WOKE ENOUGH!

They are literally "purifying" the site from those who speak against "their quest for purity".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 28, 2021, 04:01:34 PM
They've really been leaning into the "A Game" excuse to find reasons to censure and ban posters lately.

NOT WOKE ENOUGH!

They are literally "purifying" the site from those who speak against "their quest for purity".
Or lack sufficient purity, or run afoul of the mods, or are friends with someone problematic, or do something offsite that hurts their fee-fee's, or... and so on. But you knew that already.

I've been checking their Current Visitors page quite a bit. I've yet to see the registered users clock over 250, and I've seen it drop as low as 170. Guests, of course, vary wildly.

I wonder what the numbers are for Giants In The Playground (the Order of the Stick forum site). I may need to check that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on July 28, 2021, 05:03:59 PM
What the hell is a A game?

I have heard of an A Team.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 28, 2021, 05:10:23 PM
What the hell is a A game?

You must be careful in what you say or you will get banned.

In an "A Game" thread you must be extremely careful in what you say or you will be banned.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on July 28, 2021, 05:20:03 PM
Hahahahahah RPG.not and RPGeek are both utter pieces of garbage. I was going to briefly mention both in my latest podcast, but changed my mind. Let them be forgotten. I scrapped the first recording due to quality checks, but hopefully in the near future I make some good podcasts.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on July 28, 2021, 05:30:04 PM
What the hell is a A game?

You must be careful in what you say or you will get banned.

In an "A Game" thread you must be extremely careful in what you say or you will be banned.

I probably would have called it a "Karen Game"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 28, 2021, 06:30:26 PM
The truly crazy thing is that the Mandalorian did a better job of female empowerment than the sequel trilogy did by being realistic and not propaganda.  And then the Paladins went and kicked off one of the better female role models on the show!  My daughter doesn't really give two shits about Rey but boy oh boy did she love Cara Dune.

There are rumbles that they are calling her back. Of course now it's Gina Carano that holds all the cards, so Disney may just not want to look as the entity that "folded". The hope is that she and Jon Favreau will reach an amicable agreement - because it was Kathleen Kennedy's faction who torpedoed her.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on July 28, 2021, 06:36:49 PM
What the hell is a A game?

I have heard of an A Team.
It's the banning game they play to ensure their plans come together.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 28, 2021, 08:45:04 PM
What the hell is a A game?

You must be careful in what you say or you will get banned.

In an "A Game" thread you must be extremely careful in what you say or you will be banned.

IE you better agree with the mods and the board culture, unconditionally and enthusiastically.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 28, 2021, 08:49:06 PM
The truly crazy thing is that the Mandalorian did a better job of female empowerment than the sequel trilogy did by being realistic and not propaganda.  And then the Paladins went and kicked off one of the better female role models on the show!  My daughter doesn't really give two shits about Rey but boy oh boy did she love Cara Dune.

There are rumbles that they are calling her back. Of course now it's Gina Carano that holds all the cards, so Disney may just not want to look as the entity that "folded". The hope is that she and Jon Favreau will reach an amicable agreement - because it was Kathleen Kennedy's faction who torpedoed her.

I am strongly of the opinion that Carano shouldn't go back to company that treated her like shit, while letting Pascal do pretty much the same thing without a peep.
If she does, she should first get Disney to make a public, grovelling, apology, in video format, from the Disney suits responsible for this garbage.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KingCheops on July 28, 2021, 08:57:57 PM
The truly crazy thing is that the Mandalorian did a better job of female empowerment than the sequel trilogy did by being realistic and not propaganda.  And then the Paladins went and kicked off one of the better female role models on the show!  My daughter doesn't really give two shits about Rey but boy oh boy did she love Cara Dune.

There are rumbles that they are calling her back. Of course now it's Gina Carano that holds all the cards, so Disney may just not want to look as the entity that "folded". The hope is that she and Jon Favreau will reach an amicable agreement - because it was Kathleen Kennedy's faction who torpedoed her.

I'm sure hoping that's the case.  I was excited for her and Paul Sun-Hyung Lee to be big parts of Rangers of the New Republic.  It was supposedly going to be a key cog in the overarching Thrawn storyline.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 29, 2021, 04:34:01 AM
I am strongly of the opinion that Carano shouldn't go back to company that treated her like shit, while letting Pascal do pretty much the same thing without a peep.
If she does, she should first get Disney to make a public, grovelling, apology, in video format, from the Disney suits responsible for this garbage.

The Disney suits responsible are, basically, Kathleen Kennedy. Gina Carano, Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni enjoyed a great working relationship and her character was crucial for the Disney+'s Star Wars new series. Kathleen Kennedy couldn't accept the fact that someone was showing in practice that "Star Wars" could still be a thing if properly done. Stabbing Gina Carano in the back was a petty gesture by someone who should care about Lucasfilm as a whole, not only about her demesne inside it.

Then the pandemic hit, Disney had to shut down everything, and it turned out that Kennedy had damaged the only light still on: Disney+. It was sheer misfortune, true, but she did what she did at the worst possible moment.

It is no mystery that Kennedy is next in line to be torpedoed. Her management of the Star Wars brand was appalling even to outsiders who simply study these things out of professional interest. She ditched decades of expanded universe's books, comics and videogames, for example, only to whine that "Marvel had a great reserve of stories to build from, they had to do everything from scratch".

And it is no mystery that Disney is working on a narrative plan that will erase the new trilogy from canon.

The interesting thing is that one of the most vocal critics of how Star Wars was managed (after Mark Hamill) is... John Boyega! He openly said that the marketing pimped a lot the idea of a black stormtrooper who could become a jedi (just rewatch "The Force Awakens" posters and trailers), but that factually everything had to be about Rey and her being a Mary Sue standard bearer. The whole concept of John Boyega as a "Toxic racist male" is heartwarming...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 29, 2021, 08:13:43 AM
I refer to A-game threads as 'hunting over bait for mods'.

If you don't 'read the thread' very carefully, whatever you post will earn you a ban.

It's one more way for TBP mods to scratch their banhammer itch.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 29, 2021, 08:24:16 AM
What the hell is a A game?

You must be careful in what you say or you will get banned.

In an "A Game" thread you must be extremely careful in what you say or you will be banned.

IE you better agree with the mods and the board culture, unconditionally and enthusiastically.

But never, ever say that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: RandyB on July 29, 2021, 10:32:40 AM
TBP is Revolutionary Paris writ small. Only there will be no Bonaparte to give them a figurative "whiff of grapeshot". Instead they will consume themselves like the Oroborus and go the way of AoL and MySpace.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 29, 2021, 02:58:37 PM
I am strongly of the opinion that Carano shouldn't go back to company that treated her like shit, while letting Pascal do pretty much the same thing without a peep.
If she does, she should first get Disney to make a public, grovelling, apology, in video format, from the Disney suits responsible for this garbage.

The Disney suits responsible are, basically, Kathleen Kennedy. Gina Carano, Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni enjoyed a great working relationship and her character was crucial for the Disney+'s Star Wars new series. Kathleen Kennedy couldn't accept the fact that someone was showing in practice that "Star Wars" could still be a thing if properly done. Stabbing Gina Carano in the back was a petty gesture by someone who should care about Lucasfilm as a whole, not only about her demesne inside it.

Then the pandemic hit, Disney had to shut down everything, and it turned out that Kennedy had damaged the only light still on: Disney+. It was sheer misfortune, true, but she did what she did at the worst possible moment.

It is no mystery that Kennedy is next in line to be torpedoed. Her management of the Star Wars brand was appalling even to outsiders who simply study these things out of professional interest. She ditched decades of expanded universe's books, comics and videogames, for example, only to whine that "Marvel had a great reserve of stories to build from, they had to do everything from scratch".

And it is no mystery that Disney is working on a narrative plan that will erase the new trilogy from canon.

The interesting thing is that one of the most vocal critics of how Star Wars was managed (after Mark Hamill) is... John Boyega! He openly said that the marketing pimped a lot the idea of a black stormtrooper who could become a jedi (just rewatch "The Force Awakens" posters and trailers), but that factually everything had to be about Rey and her being a Mary Sue standard bearer. The whole concept of John Boyega as a "Toxic racist male" is heartwarming...

I didn't name Kennedy because it's too easy to dump all the blame on her. There are a host of people at Lucasfilm that went along with this. I'm sure there's at least one other person at Disney/Lucasfilm who backed her play. Probably many.
I despise how Kennedy has run the franchise into the ground, but I also despise the people who helped it happen.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 29, 2021, 06:32:11 PM
I didn't name Kennedy because it's too easy to dump all the blame on her. There are a host of people at Lucasfilm that went along with this. I'm sure there's at least one other person at Disney/Lucasfilm who backed her play. Probably many.
I despise how Kennedy has run the franchise into the ground, but I also despise the people who helped it happen.

For sure Bob Iger approved her management, at least initially. "The Force Awakens" was terribly derivative, but enjoyable as a "sugar rush". "Rogue One" went through a lot of trouble but the end result was fine. Everything collapsed with "The Last Jedi" (as I said elsewhere, when I first watched it I came out of the theatre wondering if they had distributed the wrong version...) However TLJ was deliriously "embraced" by SJWs and Disney found itself in a quagmire: how they could fire the "story group" that had run the franchise to the ground, after their movie was being exalted by "The Custodians of Pop Culture" (*) and, even worse, while with a woman at the head?

I never liked J.J. Abrams as a content creator (in person he seems a nice guy). To me he is a hack of the worst kind (sadly, I meet many in my career in comic books; and yes, almost all of them went farther than me...  ;) ) However, helming "The Rise of Skywalker" would have been a desperate task for everyone. It is known that Abrams got a list of things that had to be in the movie, and if you look closely TRoS takes TLJ, scene by scene, and does the exact opposite. IMHO, only Bob Iger could have ordered something so radical, but letting thing go out of control the way they did was a serious dereliction of duty. And then the curtain fell on the whole mess.

(*) Since our good friend Ghostmaker wasn't able to post an example of "leftist foolishness" in another thread, I'll do it for him here. Fiery defence for TLJ values produced pearls like this one:

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a25560063/how-fans-ruined-star-wars-the-last-jedi-2018/

"...These trolls launched an entire campaign to finance their own fan-made Star Wars film. While this is a laughable idea for delusional racists [because if you want to finance an independent Star Wars film you are a delusional racist: one thing logically follows the other], the message was clear. As the campaign’s manifesto read, "The fans are completely divided [we know: YOU wrote earlier "45 percent from fans on Rotten Tomatoes"] and the core goal of Star Wars has been abandoned. The goal is to not make one half of the fandom happy over the other, it is to make a film that the fandom in general as a whole enjoys." [the point, here, being condemning this statement for its absolute banality, I guess] [...] It’s fucking insanity. And let me just take a moment right here to remind you that this is a family movie, largely designed to sell toys to children [which, as it happened, is exactly what it failed to do, so maybe the "trolls" had a point.]

This was, of course, 2018. In the modern age, the way "Star Wars" was mismanaged is the object of studies. Maybe Rustin Cole is right: the light is winning.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on July 29, 2021, 07:33:33 PM
I didn't name Kennedy because it's too easy to dump all the blame on her. There are a host of people at Lucasfilm that went along with this. I'm sure there's at least one other person at Disney/Lucasfilm who backed her play. Probably many.
I despise how Kennedy has run the franchise into the ground, but I also despise the people who helped it happen.

For sure Bob Iger approved her management, at least initially. "The Force Awakens" was terribly derivative, but enjoyable as a "sugar rush".

The Force Awakens was terrible and things just got worse from there.

Getting through shields by traveling through hyperspace levels of retardation.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 29, 2021, 07:46:06 PM
I didn't name Kennedy because it's too easy to dump all the blame on her. There are a host of people at Lucasfilm that went along with this. I'm sure there's at least one other person at Disney/Lucasfilm who backed her play. Probably many.
I despise how Kennedy has run the franchise into the ground, but I also despise the people who helped it happen.

For sure Bob Iger approved her management, at least initially. "The Force Awakens" was terribly derivative, but enjoyable as a "sugar rush".

That's where I differ from a lot of people. I really did not like TFA even as a mindless popcorn flick outside the context of being a Star Wars film. I thought it typical of JJ Abrams. Shallow drama with little effective groundwork to earn the drama. Frantic action and forgettable characters.
As a Star Wars film, it was downright atrocrious. Reversing a lot of character development from the original movies, and bumping off a main character (Han Solo) for that cheap drama. To top it all off, they dumped his dead ass down a reactor shaft, just like Emperor Palapatine. I could hear JJ Abrams hocking up a loogie to spit on the original trilogy.

I think TFA aimed the franchise into the ground. It was The Last Jedi that simply stepped on the gas.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on July 29, 2021, 08:08:33 PM
As a Star Wars film, it was downright atrocrious. Reversing a lot of character development from the original movies, and bumping off a main character (Han Solo) for that cheap drama. To top it all off, they dumped his dead ass down a reactor shaft, just like Emperor Palapatine. I could hear JJ Abrams hocking up a loogie to spit on the original trilogy.

I think TFA aimed the franchise into the ground. It was The Last Jedi that simply stepped on the gas.

   I never took that much offense at Han's death because I strongly suspected it was a sine qua non to get Harrison Ford back. That said, TFA definitely aimed the franchise in the wrong direction, but IMO, it left just enough wiggle room that someone who knew what they were doing and loved Star Wars could have pulled out of the dive and made something worthwhile. Instead ...

   (I can understand maybe looking askance at George Lucas' plot ideas, but they had Timothy Zahn offering to assist with story and turned him down.  :o)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 29, 2021, 08:11:41 PM
As a Star Wars film, it was downright atrocrious. Reversing a lot of character development from the original movies, and bumping off a main character (Han Solo) for that cheap drama. To top it all off, they dumped his dead ass down a reactor shaft, just like Emperor Palapatine. I could hear JJ Abrams hocking up a loogie to spit on the original trilogy.

I think TFA aimed the franchise into the ground. It was The Last Jedi that simply stepped on the gas.

   I never took that much offense at Han's death because I strongly suspected it was a sine qua non to get Harrison Ford back. That said, TFA definitely aimed the franchise in the wrong direction, but IMO, it left just enough wiggle room that someone who knew what they were doing and loved Star Wars could have pulled out of the dive and made something worthwhile. Instead ...

   (I can understand maybe looking askance at George Lucas' plot ideas, but they had Timothy Zahn offering to assist with story and turned him down.  :o)
I never understood that.

OK, I can grok not wanting to outright adapt EU stuff, because you're gonna have to pay shitloads of money to people and handle the rights. But surely you could throw enough moolah at just Zahn to adapt some of his stuff! Christ, Disney, you dropped four fucking billion on this franchise. Why get tight fisted now?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Zelen on July 29, 2021, 08:32:49 PM
If Disney were smart they would create animated film adaptations of the EU material. You literally can't do the on-screen reunion so many fans wanted, but you could at least do something close as an animated series.

Question: Will we see Disney do a complete Star Wars reboot in the next decade? Or was The Farce Awokens enough of a reboot that we don't need it?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on July 29, 2021, 08:44:21 PM
OK, I can grok not wanting to outright adapt EU stuff, because you're gonna have to pay shitloads of money to people and handle the rights. But surely you could throw enough moolah at just Zahn to adapt some of his stuff! Christ, Disney, you dropped four fucking billion on this franchise. Why get tight fisted now?

    Technically, it all belongs to Lucasfilm (and thus the Mouseferatu now), but there may be issues with credit or the like as I understand it.

    The irony is that they wind up doing a bad knockoff of Dark Empire for the final film*, whereas if they'd actually committed to DE with the new characters and timeframe from the beginning, not only could they have made it work, it would have been simple to get most of what they wanted--back to Rebels vs. Empire, Luke Skywalker absent for the first film, "expectations subverted"--with only a few tweaks. Make the 'First Order' the resurgent Empire out of the Deep Core, and end the film with Rey arriving on Byss and finding out Palpatine's alive and Luke is at his side. Spend VIII dealing with the question "Has Luke gone over to the Dark Side, or is he in deep cover trying to overcome Palpatine--or both?" and end with Luke sacrificing himself to save Rey.

    It's not what I would have wanted, but it would have gotten them much of what they wanted without being nearly so slapdash and insulting to the fans.

    *As I understand it; I've never seen The Rise of Skywalker and have no intention of doing so.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 30, 2021, 06:25:05 AM
I didn't name Kennedy because it's too easy to dump all the blame on her. There are a host of people at Lucasfilm that went along with this. I'm sure there's at least one other person at Disney/Lucasfilm who backed her play. Probably many.
I despise how Kennedy has run the franchise into the ground, but I also despise the people who helped it happen.

For sure Bob Iger approved her management, at least initially. "The Force Awakens" was terribly derivative, but enjoyable as a "sugar rush".

That's where I differ from a lot of people. I really did not like TFA even as a mindless popcorn flick outside the context of being a Star Wars film. I thought it typical of JJ Abrams. Shallow drama with little effective groundwork to earn the drama. Frantic action and forgettable characters.

This.

Five minutes after watching it I already was counting the holes. The Millennium Falcon escapes from Jakku and... Where is Kylo Ren's Star Destroyer? The one that we know being in orbit, from which the very TIE fighters that chased the Falcon come from? Nothing.

Or Poe disappearing in a sinkhole only to return "just like that". There is an area full of spaceship remains: just add a line about how he fell into a ship's buried compartment, hit his head, and when he managed to climb out Finn was already gone.

But, as I said, at the end I enjoyed it for what it was. The key scene was the ending (when Mark Hamill acts more in 30 seconds that all the other characters put together in the whole film). It was full of promise and possibilities for better directors. It was when Ryan Johnson turned it into a Benny Hill skit that I knew that Star Wars was doomed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on July 30, 2021, 08:34:58 AM
You say Benny Hill skit as if it is a bad thing?  ???
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 30, 2021, 09:10:56 AM
Back on track here.

Angel of the Dawn gets the axe: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/angel-of-the-dawn-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.884861/

Official reason is 'sockpuppet', though the only recent socking ban was on nevander, so I guess it depends on how much you trust the mods.

Angel of the Dawn originally ate a thirty day ban for describing a fantasy setting involving slavery, which was later increased to six months because the mods of TBP are terrified of discussing anything problematic except in the most muted, pastel ways.

This is one of my biggest beefs with RPGnet and why I won't ever post there. You can't talk about ANYTHING that might be construed as even the slightest bit controversial, lest someone take offense. And because TBP's policy is 'the onus is on the poster to be clear', all it takes is some creative interpretation by some fucknugget and BOOM, off to Infractions you go.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on July 30, 2021, 09:36:07 AM
The salt in the wound there, IMO, is this recent tendency of stealthily increasing sentences at the last minute. That's at least twice now that someone's gotten a ban that's been radically extended just as the original is about to run out, and it's only marked as a tag-on to the original thread rather than a new infraction--who knows how well it's communicated to the 'offender'? I know RPGNet's moderation is almost completely arbitrary, but that still feels like dirty pool to me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on July 30, 2021, 10:02:23 AM
IMO, it left just enough wiggle room that someone who knew what they were doing and loved Star Wars could have pulled out of the dive and made something worthwhile. Instead ...

Wrong. The second they revealed ANODAH deathstar on the poster (and a BIGGER one to boot of course) the series was over. It wasn't 'Aiming' it at the wrong direction. It had murdered it.

If Star Wars is a series with just mindless explosions and scale with no context for anything: Yes TFA just continues that trend.
If Star Wars is a series with any amount of stakes, character development, internal consistency, themes then TFA killed them off with jyst its establishment.

Rian Johnson only followed the path set by a hack. JJ is just a master distractionsmith so people didn't notice.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 30, 2021, 10:17:27 AM
The salt in the wound there, IMO, is this recent tendency of stealthily increasing sentences at the last minute. That's at least twice now that someone's gotten a ban that's been radically extended just as the original is about to run out, and it's only marked as a tag-on to the original thread rather than a new infraction--who knows how well it's communicated to the 'offender'? I know RPGNet's moderation is almost completely arbitrary, but that still feels like dirty pool to me.
I've seen that as well. 'We're banning you for X amount of time and it'll be discussed backstage' is a similar shenanigan.

It IS dirty pool. Vaguely worded 'rules', mods who deliberately look for posters to ban, threads randomly flagged as 'A-game'...

What bugs me is how many RPG noobs go online, the first place they find is RPGnet, and then they look around and wonder what the hell is wrong with these people?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 30, 2021, 11:59:39 AM
Rian Johnson only followed the path set by a hack. JJ is just a master distractionsmith so people didn't notice.

I disagree. Sure, J.J. Abrams is a hack and he is only good in creating questions without answers. But a good writer/director could have steered them towards something good.

Rey hadn't to be a Mary Sue. A Jason Bourne-like character would have been fine. "Master Luke, I never trained, I never knew that I had these talents. Who am I? I'm scared."

The mystery surrounding her parents was a big card: play it well.

DON'T TURN LUKE SKYWALKER INTO A WINO. Just don't do that.

And so on. The new trilogy could have been the reverse of the original one - which gave us "Star Rules" and "The Empire Kicks Ass" before devolving into "The Return of the Teddy Bears".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on July 30, 2021, 02:23:55 PM
I disagree. Sure, J.J. Abrams is a hack and he is only good in creating questions without answers. But a good writer/director could have steered them towards something good.

Nope. A master contortionist maybe, but the greatest damage had already been done to a setting.

Quote
Rey hadn't to be a Mary Sue. A Jason Bourne-like character would have been fine.
She was already a Mary Sue. The prequels sucked (well partly) for the ease that the protagonists navigated their environment. Ray was already that way. If she in movie 1 could plow through the opposition her potential for interesting adventure was already limited.

Jason Bourne was still a runner. The implication was never that he could solo the entire US Black ops operation. There was a reason why Luke only learned the mind trick by movie 3.

Quote
DON'T TURN LUKE SKYWALKER INTO A WINO. Just don't do that.

Any answer as to why Luke had left the universe in a shit state and allowed the empire to kidnap children on a multiplanet state, and abandon his friends as their kid became evil could only be answered with:
A: Impotence
B: Unwillingness
C: Utter bullshit contrivedness that would still require a degree of A & B.

He would have been a looser either way.

Quote
"The Return of the Teddy Bears".

While stupid, as a guy removed from the marketting of that era the Ewoks come off more creepy then cute. They only take up a small portion of the film. The movie had so many more truly positive elements that stood out on their own.

TFA was more 'Midacloreans-The movie'. Nearly every scene was about 10 times worse then midicloreans.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 30, 2021, 02:46:20 PM
What have I done? :D
Is it that some topics can't sustain a whole thread, but can "live" in another thread as a side topic?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on July 30, 2021, 03:35:42 PM
Apologies. I had a similar breakup with GUTP forums.

Im sure its more SJW then when I left it, and I left it for being too coddling and soft. The slightest issue caused infractions
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 30, 2021, 04:46:13 PM
What have I done? :D
Is it that some topics can't sustain a whole thread, but can "live" in another thread as a side topic?

Well, OK  :D

Outing moment: only a few months ago there was another thread about TBP's craziness, and it was... fun is not the right word, but let's say quite interesting to analyse the madness over there. Now it is disturbing. We can't cure it, it is getting worse, and it is watching "1984" with John Hurt only that it never ends. I hate to use the word "uncomfortable" but this is how TBP is making me feel now. And claustrophobic. I'm not joking. Maybe this is the reason why I tend to derail threads...





























[I still think that TFA was salvageable toh]
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on July 31, 2021, 10:14:34 AM
So... do I see it correctly they accussed this nevander guy of being Angel of the Dawn sockpuppet?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 01, 2021, 01:53:13 PM
So... do I see it correctly they accussed this nevander guy of being Angel of the Dawn sockpuppet?
No idea. They handed out another socking ban a day later to some guy named 'TypoCrusader'.

Keep in mind we have no idea what methodology they use to determine if someone is sockpuppeting. Are they IP tracking? Analyzing posting style? Performing haruspicy? Who knows.

I don't have a problem with banning sockpuppet accounts. I just don't trust these morons to be honest about things.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on August 01, 2021, 08:06:48 PM
Well they definitely took this excuse from their asses to ban me once upon a time.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on August 01, 2021, 08:12:01 PM
Well they definitely took this excuse from their asses to ban me once upon a time.

Greetings!

Wrath of God! I can see that you are a new member here. I want to welcome you here to our little corner of the interweb.

Smoking lamp is always lit, and fine whiskey is always available--and fine coffee, too! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: robertliguori on August 01, 2021, 09:15:22 PM

Well, OK  :D

Outing moment: only a few months ago there was another thread about TBP's craziness, and it was... fun is not the right word, but let's say quite interesting to analyse the madness over there. Now it is disturbing. We can't cure it, it is getting worse, and it is watching "1984" with John Hurt only that it never ends. I hate to use the word "uncomfortable" but this is how TBP is making me feel now. And claustrophobic. I'm not joking. Maybe this is the reason why I tend to derail threads...


Honestly, I find a certain amount of value from these threads, no matter how repetitive, for a similar reason.  We all know that TBP is gonna TBP, but I find value in, when confronted with extremely confident people spouting aggressive nonsense and stamping out any dissenting voices to their nonsense, being able to move to a space out of said people's control, looking around, and being able to say "Yeah, it's not just me and I'm not taking crazy pills, that is legit nonsense, yes?"

But, at the end of the day, spaces exist out of the control of TBP's idiot brigade and their brethren (hat-tip to our host), and so we can indeed confirm, without fear of summary banning, whether or not some RPG.net bullshit is, in fact, bullshit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 01, 2021, 10:19:49 PM

Well, OK  :D

Outing moment: only a few months ago there was another thread about TBP's craziness, and it was... fun is not the right word, but let's say quite interesting to analyse the madness over there. Now it is disturbing. We can't cure it, it is getting worse, and it is watching "1984" with John Hurt only that it never ends. I hate to use the word "uncomfortable" but this is how TBP is making me feel now. And claustrophobic. I'm not joking. Maybe this is the reason why I tend to derail threads...


Honestly, I find a certain amount of value from these threads, no matter how repetitive, for a similar reason.  We all know that TBP is gonna TBP, but I find value in, when confronted with extremely confident people spouting aggressive nonsense and stamping out any dissenting voices to their nonsense, being able to move to a space out of said people's control, looking around, and being able to say "Yeah, it's not just me and I'm not taking crazy pills, that is legit nonsense, yes?"

But, at the end of the day, spaces exist out of the control of TBP's idiot brigade and their brethren (hat-tip to our host), and so we can indeed confirm, without fear of summary banning, whether or not some RPG.net bullshit is, in fact, bullshit.

Emperors and their invisible clothes and all that. :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kyle Aaron on August 02, 2021, 03:19:54 AM
To me, this is all an argument for limiting copyright to 15 years from creation, same as patents, and erasing trademarks from stuff. Because then since everyone will be able to make their own Winne The Pooh (or whatever) stories, Disney et al won't bother with endless sequels and remakes, but will try to come up with something new.

Just think of the huge amount of resources - money, time and and talented people - going into endless sequels and reboots. Now take those people and give them even one-tenth the money being spent on this stuff, give them free rein and see what they'd come up. It'd be great!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 02, 2021, 08:30:02 AM

Well, OK  :D

Outing moment: only a few months ago there was another thread about TBP's craziness, and it was... fun is not the right word, but let's say quite interesting to analyse the madness over there. Now it is disturbing. We can't cure it, it is getting worse, and it is watching "1984" with John Hurt only that it never ends. I hate to use the word "uncomfortable" but this is how TBP is making me feel now. And claustrophobic. I'm not joking. Maybe this is the reason why I tend to derail threads...


Honestly, I find a certain amount of value from these threads, no matter how repetitive, for a similar reason.  We all know that TBP is gonna TBP, but I find value in, when confronted with extremely confident people spouting aggressive nonsense and stamping out any dissenting voices to their nonsense, being able to move to a space out of said people's control, looking around, and being able to say "Yeah, it's not just me and I'm not taking crazy pills, that is legit nonsense, yes?"

But, at the end of the day, spaces exist out of the control of TBP's idiot brigade and their brethren (hat-tip to our host), and so we can indeed confirm, without fear of summary banning, whether or not some RPG.net bullshit is, in fact, bullshit.
That's why I fired up this thread. The decisions being made in that so-called 'bastion of roleplaying games' make my stomach turn in disgust, because I think it's bad for the hobby. But I'm not so confident to think that I'm not the crazy one, and so I bring you these nuggets and ask if my analyses are off base.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 02, 2021, 10:49:41 AM

Well, OK  :D

Outing moment: only a few months ago there was another thread about TBP's craziness, and it was... fun is not the right word, but let's say quite interesting to analyse the madness over there. Now it is disturbing. We can't cure it, it is getting worse, and it is watching "1984" with John Hurt only that it never ends. I hate to use the word "uncomfortable" but this is how TBP is making me feel now. And claustrophobic. I'm not joking. Maybe this is the reason why I tend to derail threads...


Honestly, I find a certain amount of value from these threads, no matter how repetitive, for a similar reason.  We all know that TBP is gonna TBP, but I find value in, when confronted with extremely confident people spouting aggressive nonsense and stamping out any dissenting voices to their nonsense, being able to move to a space out of said people's control, looking around, and being able to say "Yeah, it's not just me and I'm not taking crazy pills, that is legit nonsense, yes?"

But, at the end of the day, spaces exist out of the control of TBP's idiot brigade and their brethren (hat-tip to our host), and so we can indeed confirm, without fear of summary banning, whether or not some RPG.net bullshit is, in fact, bullshit.
That's why I fired up this thread. The decisions being made in that so-called 'bastion of roleplaying games' make my stomach turn in disgust, because I think it's bad for the hobby. But I'm not so confident to think that I'm not the crazy one, and so I bring you these nuggets and ask if my analyses are off base.

To be fair, we are rather biased here. There being people who left or were banned. So our opinions of the place are bound to be colored by that.
Having said that, getting banned or leaving because of the insanity is becoming a motif.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wildstar on August 02, 2021, 05:38:38 PM
Anyone else notice  some ban notices have gone missing?  Example a guy named SPAZ got a permaban earlier for having an inappropriate name, the posts gone.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on August 02, 2021, 05:41:04 PM
That's why I fired up this thread. The decisions being made in that so-called 'bastion of roleplaying games' make my stomach turn in disgust, because I think it's bad for the hobby. But I'm not so confident to think that I'm not the crazy one, and so I bring you these nuggets and ask if my analyses are off base.

I dread to think how many people, new to roleplaying, go on that site and are put off by the fruitcakes and loons they encounter on RPGnet.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on August 02, 2021, 06:28:07 PM
That's why I fired up this thread. The decisions being made in that so-called 'bastion of roleplaying games' make my stomach turn in disgust, because I think it's bad for the hobby. But I'm not so confident to think that I'm not the crazy one, and so I bring you these nuggets and ask if my analyses are off base.

I dread to think how many people, new to roleplaying, go on that site and are put off by the fruitcakes and loons they encounter on RPGnet.
How many people, new to roleplaying, come to this site and are put off by the posters here?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on August 02, 2021, 07:14:37 PM
That's why I fired up this thread. The decisions being made in that so-called 'bastion of roleplaying games' make my stomach turn in disgust, because I think it's bad for the hobby. But I'm not so confident to think that I'm not the crazy one, and so I bring you these nuggets and ask if my analyses are off base.

I dread to think how many people, new to roleplaying, go on that site and are put off by the fruitcakes and loons they encounter on RPGnet.
How many people, new to roleplaying, come to this site and are put off by the posters here?
We try to explain to them that you are not representative of the majority of role-playing gamers, and that seems to reassure them for the most part.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 02, 2021, 08:34:41 PM
That's why I fired up this thread. The decisions being made in that so-called 'bastion of roleplaying games' make my stomach turn in disgust, because I think it's bad for the hobby. But I'm not so confident to think that I'm not the crazy one, and so I bring you these nuggets and ask if my analyses are off base.

I dread to think how many people, new to roleplaying, go on that site and are put off by the fruitcakes and loons they encounter on RPGnet.
How many people, new to roleplaying, come to this site and are put off by the posters here?
We try to explain to them that you are not representative of the majority of role-playing gamers, and that seems to reassure them for the most part.

Isn't it illegal to own someone that hard?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on August 02, 2021, 08:50:16 PM
That's why I fired up this thread. The decisions being made in that so-called 'bastion of roleplaying games' make my stomach turn in disgust, because I think it's bad for the hobby. But I'm not so confident to think that I'm not the crazy one, and so I bring you these nuggets and ask if my analyses are off base.

I dread to think how many people, new to roleplaying, go on that site and are put off by the fruitcakes and loons they encounter on RPGnet.
How many people, new to roleplaying, come to this site and are put off by the posters here?
We try to explain to them that you are not representative of the majority of role-playing gamers, and that seems to reassure them for the most part.

Isn't it illegal to own someone that hard?

Greetings!

*HOWLING* ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on August 02, 2021, 11:02:16 PM
Anyone else notice  some ban notices have gone missing?  Example a guy named SPAZ got a permaban earlier for having an inappropriate name, the posts gone.

Someone asked about it. The mods confirmed that they deleted the thread because the name of the person being banned is "offensive", confirmed that yes, the person is still banned.

They literally declared that SPAZ was unpersoned.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Spinachcat on August 03, 2021, 12:48:40 AM
If anyone here is still jacking around on theRPG.net and finds any poster who might be able to find their ass with both hands, please PM them with a link to our most wretched hive of scum and villainy.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on August 03, 2021, 06:11:33 AM
Anyone else notice  some ban notices have gone missing?  Example a guy named SPAZ got a permaban earlier for having an inappropriate name, the posts gone.

Someone asked about it. The mods confirmed that they deleted the thread because the name of the person being banned is "offensive", confirmed that yes, the person is still banned.

They literally declared that SPAZ was unpersoned.

In all fairness, "Spaz" is a derogatory slur and other forums too could have looked down at it, even more sane ones.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 03, 2021, 08:14:09 AM
They've unpersoned offensive names before, though 'spaz' seems fairly tame to me. But that's just my take.



Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 03, 2021, 10:36:54 AM
Anyone else notice  some ban notices have gone missing?  Example a guy named SPAZ got a permaban earlier for having an inappropriate name, the posts gone.

Someone asked about it. The mods confirmed that they deleted the thread because the name of the person being banned is "offensive", confirmed that yes, the person is still banned.

They literally declared that SPAZ was unpersoned.

In all fairness, "Spaz" is a derogatory slur and other forums too could have looked down at it, even more sane ones.

When used as a slur. Context matters.

A black person using N*****R as his "name" is using it as a slur?

It also could be an acronym, you, I and the puritans of TBP don't know why he choose that name.

I'm a Mexican, if I used beaner as my user name would you say it's a slur?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on August 03, 2021, 12:18:14 PM
Anyone else notice  some ban notices have gone missing?  Example a guy named SPAZ got a permaban earlier for having an inappropriate name, the posts gone.

Someone asked about it. The mods confirmed that they deleted the thread because the name of the person being banned is "offensive", confirmed that yes, the person is still banned.

They literally declared that SPAZ was unpersoned.

In all fairness, "Spaz" is a derogatory slur and other forums too could have looked down at it, even more sane ones.

When used as a slur. Context matters.

A black person using N*****R as his "name" is using it as a slur?

It also could be an acronym, you, I and the puritans of TBP don't know why he choose that name.

I'm a Mexican, if I used beaner as my user name would you say it's a slur?

Here? No. If I were a Mod on TBP? Yes. You must be extra-careful there.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 03, 2021, 12:30:00 PM
Anyone else notice  some ban notices have gone missing?  Example a guy named SPAZ got a permaban earlier for having an inappropriate name, the posts gone.

Someone asked about it. The mods confirmed that they deleted the thread because the name of the person being banned is "offensive", confirmed that yes, the person is still banned.

They literally declared that SPAZ was unpersoned.

In all fairness, "Spaz" is a derogatory slur and other forums too could have looked down at it, even more sane ones.

When used as a slur. Context matters.

A black person using N*****R as his "name" is using it as a slur?

It also could be an acronym, you, I and the puritans of TBP don't know why he choose that name.

I'm a Mexican, if I used beaner as my user name would you say it's a slur?

Here? No. If I were a Mod on TBP? Yes. You must be extra-careful there.

Right, but you did say even more sane forums might look down at a username like Spaz. I replied that it's not a slur if not used as one.

So you're evading the question.

We all know TBP is crazytown and the inmates are running everything.

In a sane forum should Spaz as a username be prohibited? What if I'm a spastic? What if it's an acronym for something? What if it's Bengalese (It means Spaghetti) ?

And you didn't even know it (neither did I, I just used G translate).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on August 03, 2021, 01:33:15 PM
Anyone else notice  some ban notices have gone missing?  Example a guy named SPAZ got a permaban earlier for having an inappropriate name, the posts gone.

Someone asked about it. The mods confirmed that they deleted the thread because the name of the person being banned is "offensive", confirmed that yes, the person is still banned.

They literally declared that SPAZ was unpersoned.

In all fairness, "Spaz" is a derogatory slur and other forums too could have looked down at it, even more sane ones.

When used as a slur. Context matters.

A black person using N*****R as his "name" is using it as a slur?

It also could be an acronym, you, I and the puritans of TBP don't know why he choose that name.

I'm a Mexican, if I used beaner as my user name would you say it's a slur?

Here? No. If I were a Mod on TBP? Yes. You must be extra-careful there.

Right, but you did say even more sane forums might look down at a username like Spaz. I replied that it's not a slur if not used as one.

So you're evading the question.

True, I didn't mention other fora, but just check the forum rules and almost everyone has one that says "Usernames and avatars can't be offensive in nature" (or "potentially offensive").

I randomly checked. This one is about Malaria:
https://malariaworld.org/page/forum-guidelines-rules

And this one is a city forum (OK, in Washington State...)
https://connect.sammamish.us/moderation

Just check for "Forum Rules Username" and you will find similar warnings in forums ranging from knitting (*) to the Smurfs.

(*) I would subscribe at once to knitting forum ruled like TBP...

Quote
In a sane forum should Spaz as a username be prohibited? What if I'm a spastic? What if it's an acronym for something? What if it's Bengalese (It means Spaghetti) ?

You still have your signature to clarify that, and hope for the best.

BTW, "Black Man" in Spanish is "Hombre Negro" or "El Negro". Spanish should be more widely known than Bengalese. Try that and good luck. Don't forget to tell us the results.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 03, 2021, 02:14:41 PM
Anyone else notice  some ban notices have gone missing?  Example a guy named SPAZ got a permaban earlier for having an inappropriate name, the posts gone.

Someone asked about it. The mods confirmed that they deleted the thread because the name of the person being banned is "offensive", confirmed that yes, the person is still banned.

They literally declared that SPAZ was unpersoned.

In all fairness, "Spaz" is a derogatory slur and other forums too could have looked down at it, even more sane ones.

When used as a slur. Context matters.

A black person using N*****R as his "name" is using it as a slur?

It also could be an acronym, you, I and the puritans of TBP don't know why he choose that name.

I'm a Mexican, if I used beaner as my user name would you say it's a slur?

Here? No. If I were a Mod on TBP? Yes. You must be extra-careful there.

Right, but you did say even more sane forums might look down at a username like Spaz. I replied that it's not a slur if not used as one.

So you're evading the question.

True, I didn't mention other fora, but just check the forum rules and almost everyone has one that says "Usernames and avatars can't be offensive in nature" (or "potentially offensive").

I randomly checked. This one is about Malaria:
https://malariaworld.org/page/forum-guidelines-rules

And this one is a city forum (OK, in Washington State...)
https://connect.sammamish.us/moderation

Just check for "Forum Rules Username" and you will find similar warnings in forums ranging from knitting (*) to the Smurfs.

(*) I would subscribe at once to knitting forum ruled like TBP...

Quote
In a sane forum should Spaz as a username be prohibited? What if I'm a spastic? What if it's an acronym for something? What if it's Bengalese (It means Spaghetti) ?

You still have your signature to clarify that, and hope for the best.

BTW, "Black Man" in Spanish is "Hombre Negro" or "El Negro". Spanish should be more widely known than Bengalese. Try that and good luck. Don't forget to tell us the results.

We know the results, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about to you seemingly siding with the censors.

Edited to add: Muchas gracias por la lección de español, casi se me olvida mi lengua nativa.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on August 03, 2021, 04:27:17 PM
Anyone else notice  some ban notices have gone missing?  Example a guy named SPAZ got a permaban earlier for having an inappropriate name, the posts gone.

Someone asked about it. The mods confirmed that they deleted the thread because the name of the person being banned is "offensive", confirmed that yes, the person is still banned.

They literally declared that SPAZ was unpersoned.

In all fairness, "Spaz" is a derogatory slur and other forums too could have looked down at it, even more sane ones.

When used as a slur. Context matters.

A black person using N*****R as his "name" is using it as a slur?

It also could be an acronym, you, I and the puritans of TBP don't know why he choose that name.

I'm a Mexican, if I used beaner as my user name would you say it's a slur?

Here? No. If I were a Mod on TBP? Yes. You must be extra-careful there.

Right, but you did say even more sane forums might look down at a username like Spaz. I replied that it's not a slur if not used as one.

So you're evading the question.

True, I didn't mention other fora, but just check the forum rules and almost everyone has one that says "Usernames and avatars can't be offensive in nature" (or "potentially offensive").

I randomly checked. This one is about Malaria:
https://malariaworld.org/page/forum-guidelines-rules

And this one is a city forum (OK, in Washington State...)
https://connect.sammamish.us/moderation

Just check for "Forum Rules Username" and you will find similar warnings in forums ranging from knitting (*) to the Smurfs.

(*) I would subscribe at once to knitting forum ruled like TBP...

Quote
In a sane forum should Spaz as a username be prohibited? What if I'm a spastic? What if it's an acronym for something? What if it's Bengalese (It means Spaghetti) ?

You still have your signature to clarify that, and hope for the best.

BTW, "Black Man" in Spanish is "Hombre Negro" or "El Negro". Spanish should be more widely known than Bengalese. Try that and good luck. Don't forget to tell us the results.

We know the results, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about to you seemingly siding with the censors.

A mod is bound to enforce the rules of his forum. Many would find "Spaz" really toeing the line. Personally? Yes I agree.

Quote
Edited to add: Muchas gracias por la lección de español, casi se me olvida mi lengua nativa.

Lo so, sei messicano. :D Non credo che tu avrai problemi con "Negro" in un forum in spagnolo. Eppure io li avrei in un forum in italiano.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 03, 2021, 04:56:39 PM
Anyone else notice  some ban notices have gone missing?  Example a guy named SPAZ got a permaban earlier for having an inappropriate name, the posts gone.

Someone asked about it. The mods confirmed that they deleted the thread because the name of the person being banned is "offensive", confirmed that yes, the person is still banned.

They literally declared that SPAZ was unpersoned.

In all fairness, "Spaz" is a derogatory slur and other forums too could have looked down at it, even more sane ones.

When used as a slur. Context matters.

A black person using N*****R as his "name" is using it as a slur?

It also could be an acronym, you, I and the puritans of TBP don't know why he choose that name.

I'm a Mexican, if I used beaner as my user name would you say it's a slur?

Here? No. If I were a Mod on TBP? Yes. You must be extra-careful there.

Right, but you did say even more sane forums might look down at a username like Spaz. I replied that it's not a slur if not used as one.

So you're evading the question.

True, I didn't mention other fora, but just check the forum rules and almost everyone has one that says "Usernames and avatars can't be offensive in nature" (or "potentially offensive").

I randomly checked. This one is about Malaria:
https://malariaworld.org/page/forum-guidelines-rules

And this one is a city forum (OK, in Washington State...)
https://connect.sammamish.us/moderation

Just check for "Forum Rules Username" and you will find similar warnings in forums ranging from knitting (*) to the Smurfs.

(*) I would subscribe at once to knitting forum ruled like TBP...

Quote
In a sane forum should Spaz as a username be prohibited? What if I'm a spastic? What if it's an acronym for something? What if it's Bengalese (It means Spaghetti) ?

You still have your signature to clarify that, and hope for the best.

BTW, "Black Man" in Spanish is "Hombre Negro" or "El Negro". Spanish should be more widely known than Bengalese. Try that and good luck. Don't forget to tell us the results.

We know the results, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about to you seemingly siding with the censors.

A mod is bound to enforce the rules of his forum. Many would find "Spaz" really toeing the line. Personally? Yes I agree.

Quote
Edited to add: Muchas gracias por la lección de español, casi se me olvida mi lengua nativa.

Lo so, sei messicano. :D Non credo che tu avrai problemi con "Negro" in un forum in spagnolo. Eppure io li avrei in un forum in italiano.

Yeah, Italy is almost as fucked as the UK.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on August 03, 2021, 05:06:46 PM
I'm a Mexican, if I used beaner as my user name would you say it's a slur?

Only if it was Trader Joes Beans.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on August 03, 2021, 05:11:59 PM
Anyone else notice  some ban notices have gone missing?  Example a guy named SPAZ got a permaban earlier for having an inappropriate name, the posts gone.

Someone asked about it. The mods confirmed that they deleted the thread because the name of the person being banned is "offensive", confirmed that yes, the person is still banned.

They literally declared that SPAZ was unpersoned.

In all fairness, "Spaz" is a derogatory slur and other forums too could have looked down at it, even more sane ones.

When used as a slur. Context matters.

A black person using N*****R as his "name" is using it as a slur?

It also could be an acronym, you, I and the puritans of TBP don't know why he choose that name.

I'm a Mexican, if I used beaner as my user name would you say it's a slur?

Here? No. If I were a Mod on TBP? Yes. You must be extra-careful there.

Right, but you did say even more sane forums might look down at a username like Spaz. I replied that it's not a slur if not used as one.

So you're evading the question.

True, I didn't mention other fora, but just check the forum rules and almost everyone has one that says "Usernames and avatars can't be offensive in nature" (or "potentially offensive").

I randomly checked. This one is about Malaria:
https://malariaworld.org/page/forum-guidelines-rules

And this one is a city forum (OK, in Washington State...)
https://connect.sammamish.us/moderation

Just check for "Forum Rules Username" and you will find similar warnings in forums ranging from knitting (*) to the Smurfs.

(*) I would subscribe at once to knitting forum ruled like TBP...

Quote
In a sane forum should Spaz as a username be prohibited? What if I'm a spastic? What if it's an acronym for something? What if it's Bengalese (It means Spaghetti) ?

You still have your signature to clarify that, and hope for the best.

BTW, "Black Man" in Spanish is "Hombre Negro" or "El Negro". Spanish should be more widely known than Bengalese. Try that and good luck. Don't forget to tell us the results.

We know the results, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about to you seemingly siding with the censors.

A mod is bound to enforce the rules of his forum. Many would find "Spaz" really toeing the line. Personally? Yes I agree.

Quote
Edited to add: Muchas gracias por la lección de español, casi se me olvida mi lengua nativa.

Lo so, sei messicano. :D Non credo che tu avrai problemi con "Negro" in un forum in spagnolo. Eppure io li avrei in un forum in italiano.

Yeah, Italy is almost as fucked as the UK.

Luckily, no. You just have to ignore Twitter, but no one gets cancelled here, and "wokeism" is still not a thing. The Italian inability to look outside our borders is embarrassing but sometimes it saves us from bad virii.

"Negro", however, is considered a slur since I was in elementary school - and a childish one at that. Since we have "Nero" ("Black") we use that instead.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 03, 2021, 08:43:17 PM
They've really been leaning into the "A Game" excuse to find reasons to censure and ban posters lately.

NOT WOKE ENOUGH!
It a thread gets marked “A-Game” that them basically making it explicit that the thread servers the same purpose as Big Brothers ‘Two Minutes of Hate’. You can only voice strident support for the premise of the thread. It does not actually mean ‘bring your A-Game arguments and debate’. The point of the Two Minutes of Hate was to reinforce people’s hatred against the Party’s chosen target, and it could not allow any interruption to the process, such as a counter-argument or examination of a topic, as that would invalidate the goal of the exercise. The A-Game threads seem to work on the same principle.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 03, 2021, 09:07:42 PM
If a thread doesn’t get marked as an A-Game it does present an opportunity to interrupt the Two Minutes of Hate that might be starting up in a thread. This thread, for example, was using the premise that capitalism was bad for the environment with the apparent intent of letting everyone get a ‘Hate-On’ against capitalism:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/is-capitalism-actually-terrible-for-the-environment.884412/

A few pointed out that far worse environmental disasters occurred at the hands of the communists with examples, which messed with their Two Minutes of Hate. A few of the other anti-capitalism posters even started to try use the canard “that wasn’t real communism”. The mods, shut the thread down because they were worried about the direction on the thread, meaning they didn’t like the pushback against the OP’s premise, and the arguments were making some of their terrible friends look terrible.

If another similar thread gets started I wouldn’t be surprised if the mods find a rationale for labeling the new thread as ‘A-Game’, and thus have clearance to ban anyone who argues counter to the premise.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 10, 2021, 09:06:11 AM
LOL. Evidently TBP can't handle 'Y: The Last Man'.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/teaser-trailer-for-y-the-last-man-series-on-hulu.884821/post-24001813

"The mods are closing this thread for, quite frankly, a horrid assortment of issues mainly coming from the comic itself and it's treatment of marginalized people. Please do not start another thread about the show or comic without mod approval."

One schmuck ate a 30-day for talking about how good it'd be that all the males were dead.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/damian-may-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-sexism-advocating-eugenics.885246/

Meanwhile, CK! gets a warning and threadban for taking offense over another poster's interpretation of the Pendragon rules:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ck-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.885320/

I'm surprised they allow Pendragon to be discussed at all, considering how nonwoke the game is.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Godfather Punk on August 10, 2021, 09:19:16 AM
I wonder how they would react to a thread about 'The Screwfly Solution' then.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 10, 2021, 10:17:56 AM
I wonder how they would react to a thread about 'The Screwfly Solution' then.
Holy shit, I've read that story and it was disturbing as hell.

But yeah, they'd lose their minds.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on August 10, 2021, 10:41:14 AM
LOL. Evidently TBP can't handle 'Y: The Last Man'.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/teaser-trailer-for-y-the-last-man-series-on-hulu.884821/post-24001813

"The mods are closing this thread for, quite frankly, a horrid assortment of issues mainly coming from the comic itself and it's treatment of marginalized people. Please do not start another thread about the show or comic without mod approval."

It is worth mentioning that the comic book consistently enjoyed both critical and public acclaim since it was published back in 2002-2008; and that, as a 60 issues series, the plot goes well beyond the premise.

I do not think that the mods know the original comic book at all. Not that this would surprise me ::)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 10, 2021, 11:44:25 AM
LOL. Evidently TBP can't handle 'Y: The Last Man'.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/teaser-trailer-for-y-the-last-man-series-on-hulu.884821/post-24001813

"The mods are closing this thread for, quite frankly, a horrid assortment of issues mainly coming from the comic itself and it's treatment of marginalized people. Please do not start another thread about the show or comic without mod approval."

It is worth mentioning that the comic book consistently enjoyed both critical and public acclaim since it was published back in 2002-2008; and that, as a 60 issues series, the plot goes well beyond the premise.

I do not think that the mods know the original comic book at all. Not that this would surprise me ::)
Well, yes, it did. As tales go it wasn't a bad yarn.

But remember, if they actually read the comic they might let doubleplusungoodthink into their brains.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KingCheops on August 10, 2021, 11:47:29 AM
Are they allowed to read anything other than Das Capital and works by Te-Nehisi Coates?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 10, 2021, 02:22:23 PM
LOL. Evidently TBP can't handle 'Y: The Last Man'.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/teaser-trailer-for-y-the-last-man-series-on-hulu.884821/post-24001813

"The mods are closing this thread for, quite frankly, a horrid assortment of issues mainly coming from the comic itself and it's treatment of marginalized people. Please do not start another thread about the show or comic without mod approval."

One schmuck ate a 30-day for talking about how good it'd be that all the males were dead.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/damian-may-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-sexism-advocating-eugenics.885246/

Meanwhile, CK! gets a warning and threadban for taking offense over another poster's interpretation of the Pendragon rules:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ck-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.885320/

I'm surprised they allow Pendragon to be discussed at all, considering how nonwoke the game is.

Not surprising, in that comic any animal with a Y chromosome dies, except the sole man.

Therefore trans-Men don't die and Trans-Women do die therefore contradicting the cult's dogma that Trans-Women are Women and Trans-Men are Men.

How dare the author recognize actual biology!!!!!!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 10, 2021, 02:23:09 PM
Are they allowed to read anything other than Das Capital and works by Te-Nehisi Coates?

White fragility for starters must be a mandatory read.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 10, 2021, 02:24:04 PM
LOL. Evidently TBP can't handle 'Y: The Last Man'.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/teaser-trailer-for-y-the-last-man-series-on-hulu.884821/post-24001813

"The mods are closing this thread for, quite frankly, a horrid assortment of issues mainly coming from the comic itself and it's treatment of marginalized people. Please do not start another thread about the show or comic without mod approval."

It is worth mentioning that the comic book consistently enjoyed both critical and public acclaim since it was published back in 2002-2008; and that, as a 60 issues series, the plot goes well beyond the premise.

I do not think that the mods know the original comic book at all. Not that this would surprise me ::)

They haven't read it no, but they know enough to know it contradicts part of their cult's dogma.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KingCheops on August 10, 2021, 03:25:00 PM
Are they allowed to read anything other than Das Capital and works by Te-Nehisi Coates?

White fragility for starters must be a mandatory read.

I couldn't remember the cunt's name so didn't bother including it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 10, 2021, 03:37:02 PM
LOL. Evidently TBP can't handle 'Y: The Last Man'.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/teaser-trailer-for-y-the-last-man-series-on-hulu.884821/post-24001813

"The mods are closing this thread for, quite frankly, a horrid assortment of issues mainly coming from the comic itself and it's treatment of marginalized people. Please do not start another thread about the show or comic without mod approval."

One schmuck ate a 30-day for talking about how good it'd be that all the males were dead.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/damian-may-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-sexism-advocating-eugenics.885246/

I'll give RPG.net moderation props, if they're going to be a bunch of banhappy assholes anyway, for slapping down a really offensive post.

But then they shut down the thead because... reasons...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on August 10, 2021, 04:41:53 PM
But then they shut down the thead because... reasons...

Ratman you just dont understand how hard being a Moderator is.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on August 10, 2021, 04:52:00 PM
What has happened to society?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 10, 2021, 05:24:29 PM
LOL. Evidently TBP can't handle 'Y: The Last Man'.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/teaser-trailer-for-y-the-last-man-series-on-hulu.884821/post-24001813

"The mods are closing this thread for, quite frankly, a horrid assortment of issues mainly coming from the comic itself and it's treatment of marginalized people. Please do not start another thread about the show or comic without mod approval."

One schmuck ate a 30-day for talking about how good it'd be that all the males were dead.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/damian-may-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-sexism-advocating-eugenics.885246/

Meanwhile, CK! gets a warning and threadban for taking offense over another poster's interpretation of the Pendragon rules:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ck-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.885320/

I'm surprised they allow Pendragon to be discussed at all, considering how nonwoke the game is.

Not surprising, in that comic any animal with a Y chromosome dies, except the sole man.

Therefore trans-Men don't die and Trans-Women do die therefore contradicting the cult's dogma that Trans-Women are Women and Trans-Men are Men.

How dare the author recognize actual biology!!!!!!

For the true believers of the Woke “Transmen are men, and transwomen are women” is for a practical purposes a mantra that gets repeated in the hopes that doing so will actually make it true. The more cynical of the bunch use it as an Orwellian means to verbally smash the boot into humanity’s face.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on August 10, 2021, 05:37:37 PM
All right, a tad off-topic, but this should be said:

The problem with "trans-women" for example is that nobody likes them.


Trans-women" are insane men who want people to view them as actual women, right? The problem is, they are not, and no heterosexual man wants to have have sex with them. The only men who will are homosexuals, and only because "trans-women" are men, so that will not do.

Therefore the only way they can even get anywhere is through deception. Say a drunk guy in a dark bar somewhere, but of course it won't be long before...well, you know what I mean.

Now here's the real problem with leftism and feminism: since they are pushing for an increasingly broad (pun intended) definition of "rape by deception" in what way would this not count as rape? No heterosexual man wants any intimate relationship with "trans-women" so if it gets anywhere it must have been by force or by deception- therefore rape.

Let's just say that once again the hypocrisy of leftism will become clear.

But more chillingly, will the government recognize them legally as "women?" If so, then the waters have been muddied, which is exactly the intention- it would be a woman raping a man, and the feminists have made it clear this cannot happen.

But if they ARE "women" then they will get the special privileges women get, and feminists are not keen on that now are they?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 10, 2021, 05:38:18 PM
Are they allowed to read anything other than Das Capital and works by Te-Nehisi Coates?

White fragility for starters must be a mandatory read.

I couldn't remember the cunt's name so didn't bother including it.

You mean her name isn't Cunt McCuntface?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KingCheops on August 10, 2021, 05:41:50 PM
Are they allowed to read anything other than Das Capital and works by Te-Nehisi Coates?

White fragility for starters must be a mandatory read.

I couldn't remember the cunt's name so didn't bother including it.

You mean her name isn't Cunt McCuntface?

Ah thanks!  That's the name!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 17, 2021, 09:29:03 AM
Reading the Afghanistan thread on TBP is pretty funny. They're going back and forth from 'oh this is terrible' to 'FUCK THE RIGHT' but they can't bring themselves to put ANY blame on Biden at all.

There are a few holdouts who are hanging the albatross on Sleepy Joe, so I'll give credit where it's due.

But oh, the copium really is flowing freely in that thread.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 09:34:26 AM
Reading the Afghanistan thread on TBP is pretty funny. They're going back and forth from 'oh this is terrible' to 'FUCK THE RIGHT' but they can't bring themselves to put ANY blame on Biden at all.

There are a few holdouts who are hanging the albatross on Sleepy Joe, so I'll give credit where it's due.

But oh, the copium really is flowing freely in that thread.

   Thing is, at the end of the day, a dude who has been in DC for over 50 years and never had a real job, and who did vote to invade Afghanistan...is to blame.  I think the exit was going to be Taliban takes over no matter what.  Of course I fully expect him to fuck this up more and take in 200k or so 'refugees'.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 17, 2021, 09:38:17 AM
Reading the Afghanistan thread on TBP is pretty funny. They're going back and forth from 'oh this is terrible' to 'FUCK THE RIGHT' but they can't bring themselves to put ANY blame on Biden at all.

There are a few holdouts who are hanging the albatross on Sleepy Joe, so I'll give credit where it's due.

But oh, the copium really is flowing freely in that thread.

   Thing is, at the end of the day, a dude who has been in DC for over 50 years and never had a real job, and who did vote to invade Afghanistan...is to blame.  I think the exit was going to be Taliban takes over no matter what.  Of course I fully expect him to fuck this up more and take in 200k or so 'refugees'.
And forget to collect the Americans still left behind in Afghanistan.

"Never underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up." --Barack Obama
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ocule on August 17, 2021, 10:18:43 AM
Such as slap in the face to those who sacrificed everything in that shithole
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on August 17, 2021, 10:34:47 AM
Such as slap in the face to those who sacrificed everything in that shithole

   Well...I think enlisting in the military then and more so now is a classic parable about the frog and the scorpion.  If you keep giving the scorpion a ride, you can not complain about getting stung again and again.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 19, 2021, 08:21:02 AM
Back on track here.

Some of you saw that TheGlen had posted links to his homebrew 5E Mystara guide. I've checked it out myself, though I haven't had the time to write up my thoughts.

Welp...

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-glen-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-piracy.885738/

Stay classy, TBP.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on August 19, 2021, 08:36:36 AM
Back on track here.

Some of you saw that TheGlen had posted links to his homebrew 5E Mystara guide. I've checked it out myself, though I haven't had the time to write up my thoughts.

Welp...

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-glen-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-piracy.885738/

Stay classy, TBP.

Isn't something given away for free not piracy? ???
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 19, 2021, 09:00:32 AM
Back on track here.

Some of you saw that TheGlen had posted links to his homebrew 5E Mystara guide. I've checked it out myself, though I haven't had the time to write up my thoughts.

Welp...

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-glen-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-piracy.885738/

Stay classy, TBP.

Isn't something given away for free not piracy? ???
It's complicated. IP law in the U.S. is a giant shit sandwich.

However, issuing a fuckin' piracy warning to Mr. Welch has to be right up there in terms of worthless stupidity.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on August 19, 2021, 10:38:17 AM
It's complicated. IP law in the U.S. is a giant shit sandwich.

However, issuing a fuckin' piracy warning to Mr. Welch has to be right up there in terms of worthless stupidity.

   Yeah, calling it 'too much of a copyright violation for us to be comfortable with' would be one thing, but piracy is a step beyond that.

    But between this and the way they've come down hard on anyone criticizing pricing of products or paid GMing recently, I get the feeling that RPGNet is becoming more and more self-consciously a place for creators/producers as opposed to hobbyists.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on August 19, 2021, 11:20:16 AM
Back on track here.

Some of you saw that TheGlen had posted links to his homebrew 5E Mystara guide. I've checked it out myself, though I haven't had the time to write up my thoughts.

Welp...

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-glen-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-piracy.885738/

Stay classy, TBP.

Isn't something given away for free not piracy? ???
It's complicated. IP law in the U.S. is a giant shit sandwich.

However, issuing a fuckin' piracy warning to Mr. Welch has to be right up there in terms of worthless stupidity.

I only skimmed the 5E Mystara Guide. It does seem to be well done. But, most importantly, it made me check out my GAZ series (they are on a bookshelf near where I write). It is, literally, an invitation to discover Mystara for those who still don't know it. Should I ever play 5E, I can now start from Mystara. How such free advertising (the GAZs are on DrivethruRPG) can be labeled "piracy" is beyond me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 20, 2021, 11:58:32 AM
LOL. So now the TBP mods seem to be a little disjointed over the Mystara guide. Arethusa issued a redtext on the thread stating the guide fell within WotC's rules on fan works and so the warning should be retracted. But the thread has yet to be unlocked.

Someone posts a trouble ticket about it, and Zeea comes in with this:
Quote
Retracting infractions takes a while for technical reasons. We'll get it done, though.

The thread is still supposed to be locked and redacted for now because the product is missing a few necessary statements and license sections to make it allowed under Wizards rules. They're fairly minor adjustments but we need to wait for them before restoring the links and the thread.
First off, huh, so it's easy to hand out infractions but hard to retract them? I am shocked! Shocked! Well, not that shocked.

Second, I'd bet hard cash they haven't actually TOLD TheGlen what his guide is missing. It's not like Mr. Welch is new to writing, or RPGs, so I suspect either TBP doesn't know, or WotC hasn't actually specified.

I could be wrong, but considering the 'quality' of TBP, I doubt it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 26, 2021, 10:30:08 AM
Another example how a thread being labeled A-game really means “don’t disrupt the narrative”:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/macd21-receives-a-🔴-warning-and-threadban.886048/

The Afghanistan thread has been running excuses on how Biden couldn’t have done anything different that would’ve resulted in a better outcome. Macd21 went against the grain on that, and for that he was threadbanned for “heating up the thread”. You can’t interrupt posters in an A-Game thread from the dominant thread narrative. In this case the dominant thread is a lot of Biden supporters rationalizing how their guy actually hasn’t screwed up.

For them, Biden is the real victim in all this mess, and by extension his domestic agenda of giving me free stuff. Don’t hinder his ability to give me extended unemployment benefits, keep the rent moratorium in place, forgive my student loans, etc. Sadly, a big motivation on their part is probably the desire to minimize the ability of the MAGA folks (Full disclosure, I didn’t vote for Trump. I considered it, but wound up voting for the Libertarian ticket both times.) from owning them online. For the millions of women being thrown back into subhuman status? Well, sadly that’s collateral damage.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 26, 2021, 10:45:08 AM
Another example how a thread being labeled A-game really means “don’t disrupt the narrative”:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/macd21-receives-a-🔴-warning-and-threadban.886048/

The Afghanistan thread has been running excuses on how Biden couldn’t have done anything different that would’ve resulted in a better outcome. Macd21 went against the grain on that, and for that he was threadbanned for “heating up the thread”. You can’t interrupt posters in an A-Game thread from the dominant thread narrative. In this case the dominant thread is a lot of Biden supporters rationalizing how their guy actually hasn’t screwed up.

For them, Biden is the real victim in all this mess, and by extension his domestic agenda of giving me free stuff. Don’t hinder his ability to give me extended unemployment benefits, keep the rent moratorium in place, forgive my student loans, etc. Sadly, a big motivation on their part is probably the desire to minimize the ability of the MAGA folks (Full disclosure, I didn’t vote for Trump. I considered it, but wound up voting for the Libertarian ticket both times.) from owning them online. For the millions of women being thrown back into subhuman status? Well, sadly that’s collateral damage.
They handed out a 30 day for 'racism and bad takes' as well (aka, how dare you speak something inconvenient).

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-radioactivist-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-racism-and-bad-takes-on-an-a-game-thread.886011/

Unsurprising, as TBP's statist mindset means 'no irregular force can stand against a proper military one' (which is incredibly hilarious in light of recent events).  But then, they also would rather wring their hands and cry, rather than airdrop in guns and instructions on how to use them, and exhortations to not let the Taliban disarm them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ocule on August 26, 2021, 11:38:35 AM
Kinda makes me think that mobilizing a meme army to invade TBP would be glorious. Make an account, spam memes drive the mods crazy, get banned, make a sock puppet account, rinse and repeat until they cry for mercy. It could be the second great meme war
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 26, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
Kinda makes me think that mobilizing a meme army to invade TBP would be glorious. Make an account, spam memes drive the mods crazy, get banned, make a sock puppet account, rinse and repeat until they cry for mercy. It could be the second great meme war
We observe and argue here. I don’t think we deliberately create cross-forum drama/brigade here. This isn’t a chan site. Besides, I doubt any kind of meme/troll action you seem to describe would have any other effect than allow the mods there to award themselves points for being righteous victims. I don’t think TBP is a site to be “defeated” somehow (not sure how that’d even work out), but rather mourned as its users fall deeper into the SJW cult. Occasionally I’ll see a member recognize what’s going on, and step back from the abyss. If TBP ever goes away it will likely be due to an implosion from one of their struggle sessions tearing the site apart from within. Sort of like how the Japanese United Red Army destroyed itself for the most part.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on August 26, 2021, 02:58:46 PM
Kinda makes me think that mobilizing a meme army to invade TBP would be glorious. Make an account, spam memes drive the mods crazy, get banned, make a sock puppet account, rinse and repeat until they cry for mercy. It could be the second great meme war

The only positive thing in all this mess are the droves of people who are realising how the Real World doesn't give a fuck about Twitter and "cancelling".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on August 27, 2021, 03:16:27 AM
They handed out a 30 day for 'racism and bad takes' as well (aka, how dare you speak something inconvenient).

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-radioactivist-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-racism-and-bad-takes-on-an-a-game-thread.886011/

You can see why we are losing right there.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: King Tyranno on August 29, 2021, 02:06:22 PM
Kinda makes me think that mobilizing a meme army to invade TBP would be glorious. Make an account, spam memes drive the mods crazy, get banned, make a sock puppet account, rinse and repeat until they cry for mercy. It could be the second great meme war

Apparently Gamergate is responsible for the rise of Trump, and fascism. So hey prove them right by launching a meme invasion into Afghanistan. Naruto run into the Taliban. Show up those arseholes on RPGnet.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 29, 2021, 04:31:21 PM
They handed out a 30 day for 'racism and bad takes' as well (aka, how dare you speak something inconvenient).

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-radioactivist-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-racism-and-bad-takes-on-an-a-game-thread.886011/

You can see why we are losing right there.
>losing
>TBP hasn't cracked 250 registered members online in the last year and a half

Mmm. If you say so. Personally this looks more like a slow suicide and I am happy to watch them down one poisoned cocktail after another.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on August 29, 2021, 07:20:56 PM
They handed out a 30 day for 'racism and bad takes' as well (aka, how dare you speak something inconvenient).

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-radioactivist-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-racism-and-bad-takes-on-an-a-game-thread.886011/

You can see why we are losing right there.
>losing
>TBP hasn't cracked 250 registered members online in the last year and a half

Mmm. If you say so. Personally this looks more like a slow suicide and I am happy to watch them down one poisoned cocktail after another.

I have seen it hit 250-260 once just a few weeks ago, but yeah, it was ONE time
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on August 29, 2021, 07:31:43 PM
Mmm. If you say so. Personally this looks more like a slow suicide and I am happy to watch them down one poisoned cocktail after another.

Oh man, I remember back in the heyday before the fascists took over. The main rpg forum page would have hundreds of threads, new that day. I'd be reading something earlier in the day and if I wanted to find it I'd have to go six, seven pages to find it.

Now, it's normal to have two to three days worth of topics on the main page alone. It's stagnating and dying....and I'm glad. They have killed off the best rpg posters. All that is left is lickspittles and non rpg players.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 29, 2021, 09:15:59 PM
Naruto run into the Taliban..

I'm down for that. Someone set up a date.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on August 31, 2021, 02:48:49 PM
They handed out a 30 day for 'racism and bad takes' as well (aka, how dare you speak something inconvenient).

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-radioactivist-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-racism-and-bad-takes-on-an-a-game-thread.886011/

You can see why we are losing right there.
>losing
>TBP hasn't cracked 250 registered members online in the last year and a half

Mmm. If you say so. Personally this looks more like a slow suicide and I am happy to watch them down one poisoned cocktail after another.

No, you misread me. With "We" I meant "The West" in Afghanistan.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 31, 2021, 07:52:32 PM
They handed out a 30 day for 'racism and bad takes' as well (aka, how dare you speak something inconvenient).

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-radioactivist-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-racism-and-bad-takes-on-an-a-game-thread.886011/

You can see why we are losing right there.
>losing
>TBP hasn't cracked 250 registered members online in the last year and a half

Mmm. If you say so. Personally this looks more like a slow suicide and I am happy to watch them down one poisoned cocktail after another.

No, you misread me. With "We" I meant "The West" in Afghanistan.
Ah. Although I would argue that winning wasn't an option unless we planned to depopulate and terraform the place. But you're not wrong.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on September 01, 2021, 12:39:14 AM
Ah. Although I would argue that winning wasn't an option unless we planned to depopulate and terraform the place. But you're not wrong.

First you need to know what your goal is, then you can look to see if you won or not.

I would say that a trillion in war spending seems like a big win to me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 01, 2021, 06:35:48 AM
They handed out a 30 day for 'racism and bad takes' as well (aka, how dare you speak something inconvenient).

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-radioactivist-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-racism-and-bad-takes-on-an-a-game-thread.886011/

You can see why we are losing right there.
>losing
>TBP hasn't cracked 250 registered members online in the last year and a half

Mmm. If you say so. Personally this looks more like a slow suicide and I am happy to watch them down one poisoned cocktail after another.

No, you misread me. With "We" I meant "The West" in Afghanistan.
Ah. Although I would argue that winning wasn't an option unless we planned to depopulate and terraform the place. But you're not wrong.

If you Google "Jung problematic" (*) you will see that he is under fire, among other things, for defining some peoples/cultures "primitive". Of course no one actually reads his writings, thus noticing, for example, that Jung doesn't use the term in an offensive way, but only descriptive. He even points out how on the road of becoming "civilised" we lose a lot, and that the best possible outcome would be to integrate the civilised and primitive values so to live a fullest life.

Anyway, Jung studied "primitive" cultures by literally living among them (in East Africa and, IIRC, among the Indians of the American Southwest). Tl;dr: they are different.

"Different" means that you can neither apply your "civilised" ways and values and expect the same results, nor delude yourself that a primitive culture will become civilised overnight. Which is what the West, instead, gave for granted both in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So, the correct approach should be to understand how these cultures are different from ours and how you can help them in their own terms. But the very moment you "cancel" the concept of "primitive" (like this idiot Mod on RPG.net does) you also cancel the opportunity to speak about some cultures in real terms - with the tragicomic results we all just witnessed.

(*) This is becoming a little pastime of mine: to think about an entity (man, institution, cartoon character...) add "problematic" and Google it. I almost always get returns. C.G. Jung, J.W. Campbell, The Pink Panther, Forrest Gump... Feel free to try!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Godfather Punk on September 01, 2021, 06:45:36 AM
I tried 'Reckall Problematic' but it keeps suggesting 'Recall' or 'Rectal', both of which can be problematic it seems.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 01, 2021, 04:19:55 PM
Ah. Although I would argue that winning wasn't an option unless we planned to depopulate and terraform the place. But you're not wrong.

First you need to know what your goal is, then you can look to see if you won or not.

I would say that a trillion in war spending seems like a big win to me.

  And lots of that spending was most certainly a big juicy profit for many, many contractors.  The whole thing was a sham.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 01, 2021, 05:20:01 PM
I tried 'Reckall Problematic' but it keeps suggesting 'Recall' or 'Rectal', both of which can be problematic it seems.

Drat! :(

Anyway, I found "Ice Cream Problematic". 🤣

https://www.businessinsider.com/eskimo-pie-ice-cream-to-change-problematic-name-and-packaging-2020-6?r=US&IR=T

One could build a Scrabble game around this.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on September 05, 2021, 11:22:06 AM
Thank God Eskimo language family still keeps it's name in modern linguistics, and archeological remains of Greenland Innuits are still officialy "Thule Culture"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 05, 2021, 12:58:52 PM
There is a great quote from "True Detective" (and of course from Cohle in Season 1):

"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of shit..."

I know that it is tangential to issues like "The Eskimo Scandal", but to me, in a way, it is also relevant. Victoria Secret ditching their "Angels", "Uncle Ben" changing the brand... Things that have endured for decades.

Had Eskimo retired the brand before the SJW Storm, then kudos to them. But, to paraphrase that quote, "If the only thing that makes someone act is the expectation of current social reward, then that entity is a piece of shit."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on September 06, 2021, 11:12:26 AM
Well, some folks on big purp are now pissed with the Avatar kickstarter because of the final stretch goal. Starting on page 60 of the massive thread. The final stretch goal is an actual play with Satine Phoenix. And she of course is tied to ZakS. And yeah, it's entertaining ("....are you not entertained?")
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on September 06, 2021, 06:47:42 PM
Quote
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of shit..."

That's not the great quote by high-school atheist bad meme repeated over and over and over and over.
I on the other hand shall count psychopath fighting his violent tendencies because fear of Divine Wrath as much more moral being, than some random wanna-be-good-shoes who just have high empathy and thinks it makes it somehow a great moralist. Fuck empaths.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 06, 2021, 08:08:55 PM
Quote
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of shit..."

That's not the great quote by high-school atheist bad meme repeated over and over and over and over.
I on the other hand shall count psychopath fighting his violent tendencies because fear of Divine Wrath as much more moral being, than some random wanna-be-good-shoes who just have high empathy and thinks it makes it somehow a great moralist. Fuck empaths.

I think the problem with the quote is that expectation of divine reward is rarely the only motivation. I don't think people are that simple.
For people who are that simple, there are bigger problems afoot.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on September 06, 2021, 11:11:15 PM
Quote
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of shit..."

That's not the great quote by high-school atheist bad meme repeated over and over and over and over.
I on the other hand shall count psychopath fighting his violent tendencies because fear of Divine Wrath as much more moral being, than some random wanna-be-good-shoes who just have high empathy and thinks it makes it somehow a great moralist. Fuck empaths.

You left out the best part. The mods are giving out bans for being critical of Satine. Because, literally, they feel it’s wrong to hold women accountable for their actions. Yes, they outright said that!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 07, 2021, 05:25:53 AM
Quote
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of shit..."

That's not the great quote by high-school atheist bad meme repeated over and over and over and over.
I on the other hand shall count psychopath fighting his violent tendencies because fear of Divine Wrath as much more moral being, than some random wanna-be-good-shoes who just have high empathy and thinks it makes it somehow a great moralist. Fuck empaths.

I think the problem with the quote is that expectation of divine reward is rarely the only motivation. I don't think people are that simple.
For people who are that simple, there are bigger problems afoot.

  The other problem with the quote is it is from a character who was a jaded borderline suicidal dude who lost his wife and kid in a car wreck, who was an atheist.  Later in the show he becomes a rather firm believer.   The line is not to make a point, it is to illustrate a very strong and very defined character arc...   So even being the more agnostic sort, I am not so sure the line makes the point reckall is looking for.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 07, 2021, 12:12:34 PM
  The other problem with the quote is it is from a character who was a jaded borderline suicidal dude who lost his wife and kid in a car wreck, who was an atheist.  Later in the show he becomes a rather firm believer.   The line is not to make a point, it is to illustrate a very strong and very defined character arc...   So even being the more agnostic sort, I am not so sure the line makes the point reckall is looking for.

In that scene Colhe tells a lot of things (it is not by chance that it is one of the most iconic in the show) and many of these things are tied to a totally rationalist view of the world. Cohle, however, is challenged by Marty at every turn, so the scene actually becomes a debate without a clear "winner" or a clear cut answer - as many other scenes in TD are.

But...

"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of shit..."

...Goes basically unchallenged. Notice how the formulation already cuts off those also expecting a divine reward. This is not about them.

My point (which, I believe, is quite simple) is that if you believe in a set of values that "make you decent", then you already are. You already behave in a certain way. Kudos to you. But this means there is no merit in "being decent" if you only do it as a response to an outside force.

And this is what is happening all over the spectrum. SJWs and Wokeness rule ---> All of sudden Eskimo "realises" that their 100 years old brand is "problematic"... after the killing of George Floyd?? Wasn't Martin Luther King enough??

And of course WOTC goes woke like if they always were and all that jazz.

I see no merit in all of this. It is marketing. It is putting the sails where the wind blows after panicked meetings in the PR department. It is chasing what is substituting "God" in our current society. And, in creative and social endeavours, the results are almost always catastrophic - because behind the façade there is no real soul, no real ideals, no genuine values, only memorised slogans (see Evil Hat for a good example).

And this is why, to me, those who behave in this way are pieces of shit. That's, to me, the universal value of Cohle's statement. There is no need to look beyond this.

Edit: for the curious, this is the whole scene...

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 07, 2021, 04:12:52 PM
   The problem with the scene, and the point you are looking to make, is pretty much the entirety of western society "decent" was largely designed and enforced along the lines of that afterlife reward.  It is at this point ingrained into people.   It is the expected social norm for everyone, to be "decent" afterlife reward or not.  Without those expectations beaten into western Civ with thousands of years reinforcing it,  well, it becomes the simple fact that the expectation of a divine reward guided the entire general "rulebook" for society.   Let society collapse, then you will see who is, or is not really "decent".   

   His speech was one I hear ALL the time from atheists.   Who were raised their entire lives in societies where Christian values more or less guided most of the larger ideas around personal rights, liberty and the general behavior we take on around one another, and the laws surrounding that.   I should also mention, the guys arguing the point are: one dude who cheats on his wife, and the other dude who bangs his buddy's wife in the ass.  So there is that as to who is, or is not, decent.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on September 07, 2021, 05:24:17 PM
There is a great quote from "True Detective" (and of course from Cohle in Season 1):

"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of shit..."

I know that it is tangential to issues like "The Eskimo Scandal", but to me, in a way, it is also relevant. Victoria Secret ditching their "Angels", "Uncle Ben" changing the brand... Things that have endured for decades.

Had Eskimo retired the brand before the SJW Storm, then kudos to them. But, to paraphrase that quote, "If the only thing that makes someone act is the expectation of current social reward, then that entity is a piece of shit."

So a person acts decently for their whole life because they are expecting a divine reward and that makes them a piece of shit?

That makes no sense at all.  Who would even think like that?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on September 07, 2021, 05:28:08 PM
All right, a tad off-topic, but this should be said:

The problem with "trans-women" for example is that nobody likes them.

LOLwut?

I have two real trans friends (and have known three others, though none of those three I'd consider friends). I like them both, though I like one more than the other. Then again, the one I like less, I liked less when they were identifying as a male, so that hasn't changed. Both are with women now. One is married and they have a child, and the other just in a close relationship which is likely to lead to marriage some day, though who knows.

Quote
Trans-women" are insane men who want people to view them as actual women, right? The problem is, they are not, and no heterosexual man wants to have have sex with them. The only men who will are homosexuals, and only because "trans-women" are men, so that will not do.

Therefore the only way they can even get anywhere is through deception. Say a drunk guy in a dark bar somewhere, but of course it won't be long before...well, you know what I mean.

Wow what pure nonsense. Gender identification isn't sexual preference. A straight male who becomes a female still usually likes women just like they did when they were identifying as male, unless they were a gay man to begin with. Trans people don't get relationships by getting people drunk and tricking them...you've been listening to too much 70s rock I suspect? Whatever the source, it sure isn't from talking to a trans person.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 07, 2021, 05:38:51 PM
Quote
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of shit..."

That's not the great quote by high-school atheist bad meme repeated over and over and over and over.
I on the other hand shall count psychopath fighting his violent tendencies because fear of Divine Wrath as much more moral being, than some random wanna-be-good-shoes who just have high empathy and thinks it makes it somehow a great moralist. Fuck empaths.

You left out the best part. The mods are giving out bans for being critical of Satine. Because, literally, they feel it’s wrong to hold women accountable for their actions. Yes, they outright said that!
Allow me to direct you to the TBP hallucinations about 'holdoing'. Yes, that is literally a rule. If you question a mod decision and the mod in question is female or identifies as such, you are clearly questioning her because of her gender, not because of her competence. Banhammer for you!

Yeah, they're morons.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on September 07, 2021, 06:28:50 PM
Greetings!

Yeah, more snarky, pseudo-intellectualizing by clueless atheists.

Get rid of Christianity, Christian morality, and Christian order, and you will fuck around and find out how benevolent and kind society is. Most societies will be absolutely ruled by savage beasts, raping whomever they so choose, and subjugating and slaughtering everyone that doesn't bow the fuck down to them.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on September 07, 2021, 08:04:55 PM
Here's an interesting view to ponder based on the divergence above...
"What should I have been, and how should I have spent my life, if I had not these beliefs, if I had not known that I must live for God and not for my own desires?  I should have robbed and lied and killed.  Nothing of what makes the chief happiness in my life would have have existed for me. I looked for an answer to my question.  And thought could not give an answer to my question -- it is incommensurable with my question.  The answer has been given me by life itself, in my knowledge of what is right and wrong.  And that knowledge I did not arrive at in any way,  it was given to me as to all men, given, because I could not have got it from anywhere.  Where could I have got it?  By reason could I have arrived at knowing I must love my neighbor and not oppress him?  I was told that in my childhood, and I believed it gladly, for they told me what was already in my soul.  But who discovered it?  Not reason.  Reason discovered the struggle for existence, and the law that requires us to oppress all who hinder the satisfaction of our desires.  That is the deduction of reason.  But loving one's neighbor reason could never discover, because it's irrational." - Leo Tolstoy 'Anna Karenina'
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: RandyB on September 07, 2021, 10:36:21 PM
Greetings!

Yeah, more snarky, pseudo-intellectualizing by clueless atheists.

Get rid of Christianity, Christian morality, and Christian order, and you will fuck around and find out how benevolent and kind society is. Most societies will be absolutely ruled by savage beasts, raping whomever they so choose, and subjugating and slaughtering everyone that doesn't bow the fuck down to them.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Want to see Western civilization without Christian morality?

Game of Thrones.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 07, 2021, 10:38:59 PM
Greetings!

Yeah, more snarky, pseudo-intellectualizing by clueless atheists.

Get rid of Christianity, Christian morality, and Christian order, and you will fuck around and find out how benevolent and kind society is. Most societies will be absolutely ruled by savage beasts, raping whomever they so choose, and subjugating and slaughtering everyone that doesn't bow the fuck down to them.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Want to see Western civilization without Christian morality?

Game of Thrones.

Great show, awful ending.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on September 07, 2021, 10:39:50 PM
Greetings!

Yeah, more snarky, pseudo-intellectualizing by clueless atheists.

Get rid of Christianity, Christian morality, and Christian order, and you will fuck around and find out how benevolent and kind society is. Most societies will be absolutely ruled by savage beasts, raping whomever they so choose, and subjugating and slaughtering everyone that doesn't bow the fuck down to them.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Want to see Western civilization without Christian morality?

Game of Thrones.

Greetings!

*Exactly* my friend! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 08, 2021, 03:45:50 AM
   The problem with the scene, and the point you are looking to make, is pretty much the entirety of western society "decent" was largely designed and enforced along the lines of that afterlife reward.  It is at this point ingrained into people.   It is the expected social norm for everyone, to be "decent" afterlife reward or not.  Without those expectations beaten into western Civ with thousands of years reinforcing it,  well, it becomes the simple fact that the expectation of a divine reward guided the entire general "rulebook" for society.   Let society collapse, then you will see who is, or is not really "decent".

I think that you missed...

Notice how the formulation already cuts off those also expecting a divine reward. This is not about them

...in my answer.

However, true, in the Western society, "decent" was usually tied to Christian values - even for those who weren't Christian or that weren't even aware of the correlation.

Today, literally in the times we are living in, we are looking at a tectonic shift in the bedrock of Western values. A very worrying Christianity ---> Wokeness shift. This hijacking is being noted by Christian and Atheist thinkers alike, and it is generating a whole literature about it (*). This means that those looking for a guidance for their "decency" are more and more looking to Wokeness as their guide.

Fine (actually no). But if you shift your core values the very moment "Wokeness is the new compass", if you change a century old brand because George Floyd was killed, or ditch your Supermodels because today appreciating the female form gets you cancelled, or turn your RPG into a wokefest, then you have no internal values. You are only someone whose life and actions are calculated so to please an external entity - be it God, social consensus or anything else - hoping for recognition and a reward.

And for this reason you remain a piece of shit.

(*) Examples of these studies can be found both in internet articles...

https://web.archive.org/web/20210417021650/https://www.convergemedia.org/wokeism-the-new-religion-of-the-west/

...And in books. A lot of them.

https://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Wokeness-Justice-Movement-Hijacking/dp/1684512433
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 08, 2021, 05:33:02 AM
So a person acts decently for their whole life because they are expecting a divine reward and that makes them a piece of shit?

That makes no sense at all.  Who would even think like that?

Because I condivide Cohle's belief that you should be decent irrespectively of a "reward" of any kind.

Maybe this is because it is a topic that touches me closely. 13 years in a Catholic school didn't made me a Catholic (or a religious person in general), but they left me with the idea that this Jesus guy was a pretty cool dude, worth listening to. I also like Saint Augustine as a philosopher.

My beliefs? I do believe in a "soul" inhabiting the body and in free will, nothing else. I think that the idea of a "collective unconscious" is pretty cool and I hope that something like that does exists for real. But I also believe that when we die our soul will dissolve back into the collective unconscious the way the atoms and the molecules of our body will return to the physical world. The end.

So, when I try to be "decent" it is because I want to. I don't look for "divine rewards" or even social acceptance. And I'm not seeing "decency" in Wokeness at all. If I'll ever publish something "Woke" is because I came to believe in it. But be assured that racism in my current CoC campaign is a real thing, whereas orcs will not be "niggers" in a future D&D campaign: my choice, my consequences.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 08, 2021, 06:12:20 AM
   The problem with the scene, and the point you are looking to make, is pretty much the entirety of western society "decent" was largely designed and enforced along the lines of that afterlife reward.  It is at this point ingrained into people.   It is the expected social norm for everyone, to be "decent" afterlife reward or not.  Without those expectations beaten into western Civ with thousands of years reinforcing it,  well, it becomes the simple fact that the expectation of a divine reward guided the entire general "rulebook" for society.   Let society collapse, then you will see who is, or is not really "decent".

I think that you missed...

Notice how the formulation already cuts off those also expecting a divine reward. This is not about them

...in my answer.

However, true, in the Western society, "decent" was usually tied to Christian values - even for those who weren't Christian or that weren't even aware of the correlation.

Today, literally in the times we are living in, we are looking at a tectonic shift in the bedrock of Western values. A very worrying Christianity ---> Wokeness shift. This hijacking is being noted by Christian and Atheist thinkers alike, and it is generating a whole literature about it (*). This means that those looking for a guidance for their "decency" are more and more looking to Wokeness as their guide.

Fine (actually no). But if you shift your core values the very moment "Wokeness is the new compass", if you change a century old brand because George Floyd was killed, or ditch your Supermodels because today appreciating the female form gets you cancelled, or turn your RPG into a wokefest, then you have no internal values. You are only someone whose life and actions are calculated so to please an external entity - be it God, social consensus or anything else - hoping for recognition and a reward.

And for this reason you remain a piece of shit.

(*) Examples of these studies can be found both in internet articles...

https://web.archive.org/web/20210417021650/https://www.convergemedia.org/wokeism-the-new-religion-of-the-west/

...And in books. A lot of them.

https://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Wokeness-Justice-Movement-Hijacking/dp/1684512433

  We agree, I just think it can be summed up MUCH faster, if you as a person have no firm principles, you are a piece of shit.   This is not to say a principle can not shift over time, but it should be due to careful thought and consideration, not due to the latest "download" from the hive mind.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 08:34:57 AM
As I remarked in the Redlist thread, TBP noticed it. Amusingly, the thread was insta-locked by Tanka and the link killed. No surprise there.

What does surprise me is that the poster (ryu238) didn't even eat a warning for the thread.

Now, Tanka is an utter sped who shouldn't be allowed out without supervision. But you'd think he'd have eagerly slapped down ryu238, knowing Tanka's proclivities for whipping out his dick -- metaphorically speaking. And mind you, the threadlock was at almost 11pm Monday, so it's not like they haven't had time to figure out what to hit ryu238 with.

So my guess is they agree with him, but since TBP has a long history of 'AAAAAH DON'T LINK TO WRONGTHINK' that probably took precedence. I'm a bit surprised they locked the thread though.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mithgarthr on September 08, 2021, 10:19:44 AM
Sorry, I'm new to the site... "TBP"? I'm guessing since it refers to RPGNet, it's something like "The Bad Place"?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on September 08, 2021, 10:36:36 AM
Sorry, I'm new to the site... "TBP"? I'm guessing since it refers to RPGNet, it's something like "The Bad Place"?
The Big Purple, a reference to their color scheme.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mithgarthr on September 08, 2021, 10:47:43 AM
Sorry, I'm new to the site... "TBP"? I'm guessing since it refers to RPGNet, it's something like "The Bad Place"?
The Big Purple, a reference to their color scheme.
Aaaah. Makes more sense, but way less funny than I was hoping for.  ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on September 08, 2021, 11:10:09 AM
I never even visited the red list post until TBP blocked the link to the thread and identified this site as a “hate site”. I wasn’t really interested in that thread because I already know what companies I do and do not want to do business with. Now there may be a Streisand effect going on. Some of the woke want to use the red list as a buy list, but they also don’t want to refer (or even acknowledge the existence of) to a site that’s considered taboo. They can’t do the “hard work” of coming up with their own buy list. In a way they can’t do that work since they would inevitably start to fight amongst themselves (“Splinter!”) as to who to include and exclude.

*I enjoyed The Life of Brian. I just wish it hadn’t become prophetic.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 11:29:53 AM
I never even visited the red list post until TBP blocked the link to the thread and identified this site as a “hate site”. I wasn’t really interested in that thread because I already know what companies I do and do not want to do business with. Now there may be a Streisand effect going on. Some of the woke want to use the red list as a buy list, but they also don’t want to refer (or even acknowledge the existence of) to a site that’s considered taboo. They can’t do the “hard work” of coming up with their own buy list. In a way they can’t do that work since they would inevitably start to fight amongst themselves (“Splinter!”) as to who to include and exclude.

*I enjoyed The Life of Brian. I just wish it hadn’t become prophetic.
One of the things I would like to note is that for all their talk about 'supporting woke artists', there's a reason 'get woke go broke' is a truism. An awful lot of woke types subscribe to very, very uncapitalist ideas and don't buy the stuff (or worse, from an economic perspective, they pirate it).

So yeah, they'll talk this shit up, but let me know when they actually spend the dinero on it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 08, 2021, 12:04:20 PM
I never even visited the red list post until TBP blocked the link to the thread and identified this site as a “hate site”. I wasn’t really interested in that thread because I already know what companies I do and do not want to do business with. Now there may be a Streisand effect going on. Some of the woke want to use the red list as a buy list, but they also don’t want to refer (or even acknowledge the existence of) to a site that’s considered taboo. They can’t do the “hard work” of coming up with their own buy list. In a way they can’t do that work since they would inevitably start to fight amongst themselves (“Splinter!”) as to who to include and exclude.

*I enjoyed The Life of Brian. I just wish it hadn’t become prophetic.
One of the things I would like to note is that for all their talk about 'supporting woke artists', there's a reason 'get woke go broke' is a truism. An awful lot of woke types subscribe to very, very uncapitalist ideas and don't buy the stuff (or worse, from an economic perspective, they pirate it).

So yeah, they'll talk this shit up, but let me know when they actually spend the dinero on it.
Says the asshole that has openly stated he pirates material from those of different political views because, hey...the law obviously only applies when it suits him.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 01:41:46 PM
I never even visited the red list post until TBP blocked the link to the thread and identified this site as a “hate site”. I wasn’t really interested in that thread because I already know what companies I do and do not want to do business with. Now there may be a Streisand effect going on. Some of the woke want to use the red list as a buy list, but they also don’t want to refer (or even acknowledge the existence of) to a site that’s considered taboo. They can’t do the “hard work” of coming up with their own buy list. In a way they can’t do that work since they would inevitably start to fight amongst themselves (“Splinter!”) as to who to include and exclude.

*I enjoyed The Life of Brian. I just wish it hadn’t become prophetic.
One of the things I would like to note is that for all their talk about 'supporting woke artists', there's a reason 'get woke go broke' is a truism. An awful lot of woke types subscribe to very, very uncapitalist ideas and don't buy the stuff (or worse, from an economic perspective, they pirate it).

So yeah, they'll talk this shit up, but let me know when they actually spend the dinero on it.
Says the asshole that has openly stated he pirates material from those of different political views because, hey...the law obviously only applies when it suits him.
*shrug* Welcome to the new rules.

You don't like them, maybe don't push them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 08, 2021, 01:46:32 PM
I never even visited the red list post until TBP blocked the link to the thread and identified this site as a “hate site”. I wasn’t really interested in that thread because I already know what companies I do and do not want to do business with. Now there may be a Streisand effect going on. Some of the woke want to use the red list as a buy list, but they also don’t want to refer (or even acknowledge the existence of) to a site that’s considered taboo. They can’t do the “hard work” of coming up with their own buy list. In a way they can’t do that work since they would inevitably start to fight amongst themselves (“Splinter!”) as to who to include and exclude.

*I enjoyed The Life of Brian. I just wish it hadn’t become prophetic.
One of the things I would like to note is that for all their talk about 'supporting woke artists', there's a reason 'get woke go broke' is a truism. An awful lot of woke types subscribe to very, very uncapitalist ideas and don't buy the stuff (or worse, from an economic perspective, they pirate it).

So yeah, they'll talk this shit up, but let me know when they actually spend the dinero on it.
Says the asshole that has openly stated he pirates material from those of different political views because, hey...the law obviously only applies when it suits him.
*shrug* Welcome to the new rules.

You don't like them, maybe don't push them.
I've never pushed for piracy of materials, regardless of the author/publisher.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 02:23:17 PM
I never even visited the red list post until TBP blocked the link to the thread and identified this site as a “hate site”. I wasn’t really interested in that thread because I already know what companies I do and do not want to do business with. Now there may be a Streisand effect going on. Some of the woke want to use the red list as a buy list, but they also don’t want to refer (or even acknowledge the existence of) to a site that’s considered taboo. They can’t do the “hard work” of coming up with their own buy list. In a way they can’t do that work since they would inevitably start to fight amongst themselves (“Splinter!”) as to who to include and exclude.

*I enjoyed The Life of Brian. I just wish it hadn’t become prophetic.
One of the things I would like to note is that for all their talk about 'supporting woke artists', there's a reason 'get woke go broke' is a truism. An awful lot of woke types subscribe to very, very uncapitalist ideas and don't buy the stuff (or worse, from an economic perspective, they pirate it).

So yeah, they'll talk this shit up, but let me know when they actually spend the dinero on it.
Says the asshole that has openly stated he pirates material from those of different political views because, hey...the law obviously only applies when it suits him.
*shrug* Welcome to the new rules.

You don't like them, maybe don't push them.
I've never pushed for piracy of materials, regardless of the author/publisher.
Maybe they shouldn't push for deplatforming everyone who doesn't see things their way.

But hey, you're the kind of pussy who likes to 'lose with grace', I bet.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on September 08, 2021, 02:33:37 PM
So at TBP they shut down discussion of “The list?” and this is a hate site?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 08, 2021, 02:35:58 PM
I never even visited the red list post until TBP blocked the link to the thread and identified this site as a “hate site”. I wasn’t really interested in that thread because I already know what companies I do and do not want to do business with. Now there may be a Streisand effect going on. Some of the woke want to use the red list as a buy list, but they also don’t want to refer (or even acknowledge the existence of) to a site that’s considered taboo. They can’t do the “hard work” of coming up with their own buy list. In a way they can’t do that work since they would inevitably start to fight amongst themselves (“Splinter!”) as to who to include and exclude.

*I enjoyed The Life of Brian. I just wish it hadn’t become prophetic.
One of the things I would like to note is that for all their talk about 'supporting woke artists', there's a reason 'get woke go broke' is a truism. An awful lot of woke types subscribe to very, very uncapitalist ideas and don't buy the stuff (or worse, from an economic perspective, they pirate it).

So yeah, they'll talk this shit up, but let me know when they actually spend the dinero on it.
Says the asshole that has openly stated he pirates material from those of different political views because, hey...the law obviously only applies when it suits him.
*shrug* Welcome to the new rules.

You don't like them, maybe don't push them.
I've never pushed for piracy of materials, regardless of the author/publisher.
Maybe they shouldn't push for deplatforming everyone who doesn't see things their way.

But hey, you're the kind of pussy who likes to 'lose with grace', I bet.
Keep guessing, evebtually you might get something right by chance alone.

It's funny how you've shifted from "you" [me] to "they" when called on your bullshit pro-piracy nonsense. But since you seem to conflate the two, I've never pushed for deplatforming either.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 08, 2021, 02:37:26 PM
So at TBP they shut down discussion of “The list?” and this is a hate site?
Your statement should have ended with a period, not a question mark.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 02:38:06 PM
I never even visited the red list post until TBP blocked the link to the thread and identified this site as a “hate site”. I wasn’t really interested in that thread because I already know what companies I do and do not want to do business with. Now there may be a Streisand effect going on. Some of the woke want to use the red list as a buy list, but they also don’t want to refer (or even acknowledge the existence of) to a site that’s considered taboo. They can’t do the “hard work” of coming up with their own buy list. In a way they can’t do that work since they would inevitably start to fight amongst themselves (“Splinter!”) as to who to include and exclude.

*I enjoyed The Life of Brian. I just wish it hadn’t become prophetic.
One of the things I would like to note is that for all their talk about 'supporting woke artists', there's a reason 'get woke go broke' is a truism. An awful lot of woke types subscribe to very, very uncapitalist ideas and don't buy the stuff (or worse, from an economic perspective, they pirate it).

So yeah, they'll talk this shit up, but let me know when they actually spend the dinero on it.
Says the asshole that has openly stated he pirates material from those of different political views because, hey...the law obviously only applies when it suits him.
*shrug* Welcome to the new rules.

You don't like them, maybe don't push them.
I've never pushed for piracy of materials, regardless of the author/publisher.
Maybe they shouldn't push for deplatforming everyone who doesn't see things their way.

But hey, you're the kind of pussy who likes to 'lose with grace', I bet.
Keep guessing, evebtually you might get something right by chance alone.

It's funny how you've shifted from "you" [me] to "they" when called on your bullshit pro-piracy nonsense. But since you seem to conflate the two, I've never pushed for deplatforming either.
I couldn't care less what I get 'right' about you. You don't sign my paychecks and you don't write my evaluations, so your opinion is pretty much a big fat zero.

But hey, maybe you'll get your dick sucked one day.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 08, 2021, 02:39:58 PM
I never even visited the red list post until TBP blocked the link to the thread and identified this site as a “hate site”. I wasn’t really interested in that thread because I already know what companies I do and do not want to do business with. Now there may be a Streisand effect going on. Some of the woke want to use the red list as a buy list, but they also don’t want to refer (or even acknowledge the existence of) to a site that’s considered taboo. They can’t do the “hard work” of coming up with their own buy list. In a way they can’t do that work since they would inevitably start to fight amongst themselves (“Splinter!”) as to who to include and exclude.

*I enjoyed The Life of Brian. I just wish it hadn’t become prophetic.
One of the things I would like to note is that for all their talk about 'supporting woke artists', there's a reason 'get woke go broke' is a truism. An awful lot of woke types subscribe to very, very uncapitalist ideas and don't buy the stuff (or worse, from an economic perspective, they pirate it).

So yeah, they'll talk this shit up, but let me know when they actually spend the dinero on it.
Says the asshole that has openly stated he pirates material from those of different political views because, hey...the law obviously only applies when it suits him.
*shrug* Welcome to the new rules.

You don't like them, maybe don't push them.
I've never pushed for piracy of materials, regardless of the author/publisher.
Maybe they shouldn't push for deplatforming everyone who doesn't see things their way.

But hey, you're the kind of pussy who likes to 'lose with grace', I bet.
Keep guessing, evebtually you might get something right by chance alone.

It's funny how you've shifted from "you" [me] to "they" when called on your bullshit pro-piracy nonsense. But since you seem to conflate the two, I've never pushed for deplatforming either.
I couldn't care less what I get 'right' about you. You don't sign my paychecks and you don't write my evaluations, so your opinion is pretty much a big fat zero.

But hey, maybe you'll get your dick sucked one day.
Keep flailing, little pirate.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 02:42:51 PM
I never even visited the red list post until TBP blocked the link to the thread and identified this site as a “hate site”. I wasn’t really interested in that thread because I already know what companies I do and do not want to do business with. Now there may be a Streisand effect going on. Some of the woke want to use the red list as a buy list, but they also don’t want to refer (or even acknowledge the existence of) to a site that’s considered taboo. They can’t do the “hard work” of coming up with their own buy list. In a way they can’t do that work since they would inevitably start to fight amongst themselves (“Splinter!”) as to who to include and exclude.

*I enjoyed The Life of Brian. I just wish it hadn’t become prophetic.
One of the things I would like to note is that for all their talk about 'supporting woke artists', there's a reason 'get woke go broke' is a truism. An awful lot of woke types subscribe to very, very uncapitalist ideas and don't buy the stuff (or worse, from an economic perspective, they pirate it).

So yeah, they'll talk this shit up, but let me know when they actually spend the dinero on it.
Says the asshole that has openly stated he pirates material from those of different political views because, hey...the law obviously only applies when it suits him.
*shrug* Welcome to the new rules.

You don't like them, maybe don't push them.
I've never pushed for piracy of materials, regardless of the author/publisher.
Maybe they shouldn't push for deplatforming everyone who doesn't see things their way.

But hey, you're the kind of pussy who likes to 'lose with grace', I bet.
Keep guessing, evebtually you might get something right by chance alone.

It's funny how you've shifted from "you" [me] to "they" when called on your bullshit pro-piracy nonsense. But since you seem to conflate the two, I've never pushed for deplatforming either.
I couldn't care less what I get 'right' about you. You don't sign my paychecks and you don't write my evaluations, so your opinion is pretty much a big fat zero.

But hey, maybe you'll get your dick sucked one day.
Keep flailing, little pirate.
'Flailing'.

Yawn.

Anything else you want to contribute, HappyDerp? 'Cause I got stuff to do.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 08, 2021, 02:53:27 PM
I never even visited the red list post until TBP blocked the link to the thread and identified this site as a “hate site”. I wasn’t really interested in that thread because I already know what companies I do and do not want to do business with. Now there may be a Streisand effect going on. Some of the woke want to use the red list as a buy list, but they also don’t want to refer (or even acknowledge the existence of) to a site that’s considered taboo. They can’t do the “hard work” of coming up with their own buy list. In a way they can’t do that work since they would inevitably start to fight amongst themselves (“Splinter!”) as to who to include and exclude.

*I enjoyed The Life of Brian. I just wish it hadn’t become prophetic.
One of the things I would like to note is that for all their talk about 'supporting woke artists', there's a reason 'get woke go broke' is a truism. An awful lot of woke types subscribe to very, very uncapitalist ideas and don't buy the stuff (or worse, from an economic perspective, they pirate it).

So yeah, they'll talk this shit up, but let me know when they actually spend the dinero on it.
Says the asshole that has openly stated he pirates material from those of different political views because, hey...the law obviously only applies when it suits him.
*shrug* Welcome to the new rules.

You don't like them, maybe don't push them.
I've never pushed for piracy of materials, regardless of the author/publisher.
Maybe they shouldn't push for deplatforming everyone who doesn't see things their way.

But hey, you're the kind of pussy who likes to 'lose with grace', I bet.
Keep guessing, evebtually you might get something right by chance alone.

It's funny how you've shifted from "you" [me] to "they" when called on your bullshit pro-piracy nonsense. But since you seem to conflate the two, I've never pushed for deplatforming either.
I couldn't care less what I get 'right' about you. You don't sign my paychecks and you don't write my evaluations, so your opinion is pretty much a big fat zero.

But hey, maybe you'll get your dick sucked one day.
Keep flailing, little pirate.
'Flailing'.

Yawn.

Anything else you want to contribute, HappyDerp? 'Cause I got stuff to do.
Oh, do tell! What products will you be illegally downloading today?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on September 08, 2021, 02:56:02 PM
Greetings!

OH NO! TBP thinks that this site here is full of HATEMONGERS!!!!! ;D

*Laughing*

As they shut down discussion of the List and forbid any member posting a fucking LINK to this site. Fucking amazing.

That's what cock-sucking Marxists do. It's all about them maintaining absolute control, and pumping everyone full of Marxist jello.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on September 08, 2021, 02:58:45 PM
So at TBP they shut down discussion of “The list?” and this is a hate site?
Your statement should have ended with a period, not a question mark.
In your opinion what qualifies this as a hate site?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 08, 2021, 03:03:20 PM
So at TBP they shut down discussion of “The list?” and this is a hate site?
Your statement should have ended with a period, not a question mark.
In your opinion what qualifies this as a hate site?
I didn't say it was. However, there is no question that RPGNet views it as such.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 03:17:26 PM
I never even visited the red list post until TBP blocked the link to the thread and identified this site as a “hate site”. I wasn’t really interested in that thread because I already know what companies I do and do not want to do business with. Now there may be a Streisand effect going on. Some of the woke want to use the red list as a buy list, but they also don’t want to refer (or even acknowledge the existence of) to a site that’s considered taboo. They can’t do the “hard work” of coming up with their own buy list. In a way they can’t do that work since they would inevitably start to fight amongst themselves (“Splinter!”) as to who to include and exclude.

*I enjoyed The Life of Brian. I just wish it hadn’t become prophetic.
One of the things I would like to note is that for all their talk about 'supporting woke artists', there's a reason 'get woke go broke' is a truism. An awful lot of woke types subscribe to very, very uncapitalist ideas and don't buy the stuff (or worse, from an economic perspective, they pirate it).

So yeah, they'll talk this shit up, but let me know when they actually spend the dinero on it.
Says the asshole that has openly stated he pirates material from those of different political views because, hey...the law obviously only applies when it suits him.
*shrug* Welcome to the new rules.

You don't like them, maybe don't push them.
I've never pushed for piracy of materials, regardless of the author/publisher.
Maybe they shouldn't push for deplatforming everyone who doesn't see things their way.

But hey, you're the kind of pussy who likes to 'lose with grace', I bet.
Keep guessing, evebtually you might get something right by chance alone.

It's funny how you've shifted from "you" [me] to "they" when called on your bullshit pro-piracy nonsense. But since you seem to conflate the two, I've never pushed for deplatforming either.
I couldn't care less what I get 'right' about you. You don't sign my paychecks and you don't write my evaluations, so your opinion is pretty much a big fat zero.

But hey, maybe you'll get your dick sucked one day.
Keep flailing, little pirate.
'Flailing'.

Yawn.

Anything else you want to contribute, HappyDerp? 'Cause I got stuff to do.
Oh, do tell! What products will you be illegally downloading today?
Your mom.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 08, 2021, 03:20:45 PM
I never even visited the red list post until TBP blocked the link to the thread and identified this site as a “hate site”. I wasn’t really interested in that thread because I already know what companies I do and do not want to do business with. Now there may be a Streisand effect going on. Some of the woke want to use the red list as a buy list, but they also don’t want to refer (or even acknowledge the existence of) to a site that’s considered taboo. They can’t do the “hard work” of coming up with their own buy list. In a way they can’t do that work since they would inevitably start to fight amongst themselves (“Splinter!”) as to who to include and exclude.

*I enjoyed The Life of Brian. I just wish it hadn’t become prophetic.
One of the things I would like to note is that for all their talk about 'supporting woke artists', there's a reason 'get woke go broke' is a truism. An awful lot of woke types subscribe to very, very uncapitalist ideas and don't buy the stuff (or worse, from an economic perspective, they pirate it).

So yeah, they'll talk this shit up, but let me know when they actually spend the dinero on it.
Says the asshole that has openly stated he pirates material from those of different political views because, hey...the law obviously only applies when it suits him.
*shrug* Welcome to the new rules.

You don't like them, maybe don't push them.
I've never pushed for piracy of materials, regardless of the author/publisher.
Maybe they shouldn't push for deplatforming everyone who doesn't see things their way.

But hey, you're the kind of pussy who likes to 'lose with grace', I bet.
Keep guessing, evebtually you might get something right by chance alone.

It's funny how you've shifted from "you" [me] to "they" when called on your bullshit pro-piracy nonsense. But since you seem to conflate the two, I've never pushed for deplatforming either.
I couldn't care less what I get 'right' about you. You don't sign my paychecks and you don't write my evaluations, so your opinion is pretty much a big fat zero.

But hey, maybe you'll get your dick sucked one day.
Keep flailing, little pirate.
'Flailing'.

Yawn.

Anything else you want to contribute, HappyDerp? 'Cause I got stuff to do.
Oh, do tell! What products will you be illegally downloading today?
Your mom.
Even at her age, she'd have you crying like a baby, little pirate.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 03:21:49 PM
Even at her age, she'd have you crying like a baby, little pirate.
Stay mad, pussy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 08, 2021, 03:38:24 PM
Even at her age, she'd have you crying like a baby, little pirate.
Stay mad, pussy.
Keep trying to make me mad, little pirate. You're doing a terrible job of it so far.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 03:46:15 PM
Even at her age, she'd have you crying like a baby, little pirate.
Stay mad, pussy.
Keep trying to make me mad, little pirate. You're doing a terrible job of it so far.
LOL, I know exactly how to make you mad, pussy (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/liberals-are-against-science!/msg1141688/#msg1141688).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on September 08, 2021, 03:50:55 PM
So at TBP they shut down discussion of “The list?” and this is a hate site?
Your statement should have ended with a period, not a question mark.
In your opinion what qualifies this as a hate site?
I didn't say it was. However, there is no question that RPGNet views it as such.
Next time be more specific.

What TBP qualifies as hate equates to anything they disagree with.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 03:57:14 PM
So at TBP they shut down discussion of “The list?” and this is a hate site?
Your statement should have ended with a period, not a question mark.
In your opinion what qualifies this as a hate site?
I didn't say it was. However, there is no question that RPGNet views it as such.
Next time be more specific.

What TBP qualifies as hate equates to anything they disagree with.
Pretty much.

Although they shuffle back and forth on allowing general attacks. Which I find odd -- the only thing that springs to mind immediately is that they don't want to get caught in some kind of legal crossfire if someone goes off their nut and tries to snipe some folks a la the Republican House softball game. I'm not married to that theory, but considering some of the stances they've taken, I find it curious that they jump on general attacks -- regardless of target -- so virulently.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on September 08, 2021, 04:22:09 PM
That's what cock-sucking Marxists do.
Fred: Hey Bob, I don't think you want to get involved with her.   She claims to be a Marxist.
Bob: I know, but Shark said she's a cock-sucking Marxist.
Fred: Oh?  Well carry on then!






Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on September 08, 2021, 04:43:46 PM
That's what cock-sucking Marxists do.
Fred: Hey Bob, I don't think you want to get involved with her.   She claims to be a Marxist.
Bob: I know, but Shark said she's a cock-sucking Marxist.
Fred: Oh?  Well carry on then!
How do I throw a /Like on a post on this fucking forum? Lol!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on September 08, 2021, 05:25:33 PM
That's what cock-sucking Marxists do.
Fred: Hey Bob, I don't think you want to get involved with her.   She claims to be a Marxist.
Bob: I know, but Shark said she's a cock-sucking Marxist.
Fred: Oh?  Well carry on then!

Greetings!

Yes, DocJones! That's right! *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on September 08, 2021, 05:27:11 PM
That's what cock-sucking Marxists do.
Fred: Hey Bob, I don't think you want to get involved with her.   She claims to be a Marxist.
Bob: I know, but Shark said she's a cock-sucking Marxist.
Fred: Oh?  Well carry on then!
How do I throw a /Like on a post on this fucking forum? Lol!

Greetings!

*Laughing* Lots of good, interesting, fun people here. Welcome to the boards!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on September 08, 2021, 05:42:54 PM
Thanks! I wouldn't recommend a Marxist girlfriend though. Probably more trouble than it's worth.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 08, 2021, 05:45:12 PM
So at TBP they shut down discussion of “The list?” and this is a hate site?
Your statement should have ended with a period, not a question mark.
In your opinion what qualifies this as a hate site?
I didn't say it was. However, there is no question that RPGNet views it as such.
Next time be more specific.

What TBP qualifies as hate equates to anything they disagree with.
Next time learn to fucking read. I'll be a specific or not as I wish.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on September 08, 2021, 07:37:37 PM
So at TBP they shut down discussion of “The list?” and this is a hate site?
Your statement should have ended with a period, not a question mark.
In your opinion what qualifies this as a hate site?
I didn't say it was. However, there is no question that RPGNet views it as such.
Next time be more specific.

What TBP qualifies as hate equates to anything they disagree with.
Next time learn to fucking read. I'll be a specific or not as I wish.
Oooooo you sure told me!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on September 08, 2021, 07:44:12 PM
So at TBP they shut down discussion of “The list?” and this is a hate site?
Your statement should have ended with a period, not a question mark.
In your opinion what qualifies this as a hate site?
I didn't say it was. However, there is no question that RPGNet views it as such.
Next time be more specific.

What TBP qualifies as hate equates to anything they disagree with.
Pretty much.

Although they shuffle back and forth on allowing general attacks. Which I find odd -- the only thing that springs to mind immediately is that they don't want to get caught in some kind of legal crossfire if someone goes off their nut and tries to snipe some folks a la the Republican House softball game. I'm not married to that theory, but considering some of the stances they've taken, I find it curious that they jump on general attacks -- regardless of target -- so virulently.
I take it as more of an attempt to appear that they aren't biased when clearly they are.

Look at the Trump ban the instituted and the reasoning saying that "its not open season on conservatives." Not a conservative but a libertarian but there is no way I would post there. Its clearly meant for the left side of the political spectrum. That's fine if that is the way they want it but don't try and claim to be not out banning people who disagree there TBP.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on September 08, 2021, 08:35:02 PM
So at TBP they shut down discussion of “The list?” and this is a hate site?
Your statement should have ended with a period, not a question mark.
In your opinion what qualifies this as a hate site?
I didn't say it was. However, there is no question that RPGNet views it as such.
Next time be more specific.

What TBP qualifies as hate equates to anything they disagree with.
Pretty much.

Although they shuffle back and forth on allowing general attacks. Which I find odd -- the only thing that springs to mind immediately is that they don't want to get caught in some kind of legal crossfire if someone goes off their nut and tries to snipe some folks a la the Republican House softball game. I'm not married to that theory, but considering some of the stances they've taken, I find it curious that they jump on general attacks -- regardless of target -- so virulently.

I haven't been a regular poster there in a long time, but their uneven application of the group attack rules is one of the big reasons I left.  They may have gotten more consistent since then, but they also started outright allowing attacks on groups like ICE/border patrol beyond just fair criticism.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on September 08, 2021, 09:31:21 PM
So a person acts decently for their whole life because they are expecting a divine reward and that makes them a piece of shit?

That makes no sense at all.  Who would even think like that?

Because I condivide Cohle's belief that you should be decent irrespectively of a "reward" of any kind.

Why should you choose to be decent at all?

Quote
Maybe this is because it is a topic that touches me closely. 13 years in a Catholic school didn't made me a Catholic (or a religious person in general), but they left me with the idea that this Jesus guy was a pretty cool dude, worth listening to. I also like Saint Augustine as a philosopher.

My beliefs? I do believe in a "soul" inhabiting the body and in free will, nothing else. I think that the idea of a "collective unconscious" is pretty cool and I hope that something like that does exists for real. But I also believe that when we die our soul will dissolve back into the collective unconscious the way the atoms and the molecules of our body will return to the physical world. The end.

So, when I try to be "decent" it is because I want to. I don't look for "divine rewards" or even social acceptance. And I'm not seeing "decency" in Wokeness at all. If I'll ever publish something "Woke" is because I came to believe in it. But be assured that racism in my current CoC campaign is a real thing, whereas orcs will not be "niggers" in a future D&D campaign: my choice, my consequences.

If you act decently because you want to act decently then that puts you in the same piece of shit category as someone who acts decently because they want to go to heaven.

You just tell yourself a different story.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on September 08, 2021, 09:35:13 PM
So at TBP they shut down discussion of “The list?” and this is a hate site?
Your statement should have ended with a period, not a question mark.
In your opinion what qualifies this as a hate site?
I didn't say it was. However, there is no question that RPGNet views it as such.
Next time be more specific.

What TBP qualifies as hate equates to anything they disagree with.
Next time learn to fucking read. I'll be a specific or not as I wish.
Oooooo you sure told me!

Now you know why this is the hate site.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Snowman0147 on September 09, 2021, 12:44:54 AM
So at TBP they shut down discussion of “The list?” and this is a hate site?
Your statement should have ended with a period, not a question mark.
In your opinion what qualifies this as a hate site?

Don't bother asking him.  He is a known liar and backstabber that hates this site.

To answer your question yes the RPG.net did in fact shut down the topic.  This site, however, is NOT a hate site.  RPGPundit had banned more than enough racists to prove this site is in fact NOT a hate site.  Seriously just ask RPGPundit himself.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on September 09, 2021, 03:05:46 AM
So at TBP they shut down discussion of “The list?” and this is a hate site?
Your statement should have ended with a period, not a question mark.
In your opinion what qualifies this as a hate site?

Don't bother asking him.  He is a known liar and backstabber that hates this site.

To answer your question yes the RPG.net did in fact shut down the topic.  This site, however, is NOT a hate site.  RPGPundit had banned more than enough racists to prove this site is in fact NOT a hate site.  Seriously just ask RPGPundit himself.
HappyDaze does hold divergent views and sometimes deliberately trolls people, but liar and hating this site are false characterizations. Look at the threads about Pundit's videos if you want evidence of the latter.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 09, 2021, 06:35:04 AM
If you act decently because you want to act decently then that puts you in the same piece of shit category as someone who acts decently because they want to go to heaven.

You just tell yourself a different story.

Sure, because I'm GOD, THE ETERNAL SAVIOUR, so, if I act decently I'll self-save ::)

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on September 09, 2021, 08:34:56 AM
(Note: I was going to post this in reply to jhkim in the red list thread, but as I reviewed the thread before hitting the post button I think it belongs here more.)

I am a little curious about discussion of this list in other places - I recently saw a Facebook friend briefly mention it, but he said to ignore it. Does anyone have any links to discussion threads?

In principle, I'd think that a list like this could be useful for activists on both sides, letting them know who to buy from and who to avoid.
A few people at TBP wanted to start a discussion of the list at TBP, but that was shut down by the mods. They could have tried to justify the prohibition as a means to limit cross forum drama, but that would’ve been an insufficiently Woke reason, so instead they called this site a “hate site”. (If TheRPGsite is in their demented minds akin to a neo-nazi site it would make sense that they’ll eventually ban their members who are also posting here.)

Posters at TBP can’t link to this site, and can’t discuss the list, but we’re told “… the mods have decided if you want to talk about companies that are doing well on some issues (or doing poorly), feel free.” I haven’t seen such a discussion develop yet at TBP. I think that’s in part because it would be far easier for some of the users to have had a thread to function as Two Minutes of Hate against the list here, but the TBP mods have precluded that course. Making up their own list would require more work and effort than just a thread attacking this list.

In seeing the list created here a lot of sharp elbows have been thrown back and forth that wouldn’t be allowed at TBP. I think users at TBP would be reluctant to start working on their own list because they’d also be at risk catching bans for being out of sync with whichever direction the Woke winds were blowing any given day, including setting themselves up for catching bans months (years maybe) after the discussion was finished by a TBP mod going through users past posts.

Some companies have been getting shifted between the different categories on this list. People here have had their arguments and moved on. In a Woke environment if you find yourself on the losing end of an argument you’ll be expected to prostrate yourself, apologize and hope for forgiveness. But like in 1984 you’ll never be truly forgiven, you’re just being let go for a little while until the Party/Woke decide to finish you. Even a few years ago I think TBP could have had some discussion along these lines, but it’s been getting more and more restrictive over there as their users get more conditioned to ever tightening boundaries.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on September 09, 2021, 11:02:40 AM
See, that's what I really find refreshing about this site. I have seen so much within the past couple of days that would have got loads of people banned from big purp. But here, sure blood pressure rises, but man it's been such a thought provoking discussion. And pundit rarely bans anyone.

I remember back in the day when there used to be good discussions on TBP.....but they're the epitome of eating their young and being destroyed from within.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 09, 2021, 12:14:40 PM
See, that's what I really find refreshing about this site. I have seen so much within the past couple of days that would have got loads of people banned from big purp. But here, sure blood pressure rises, but man it's been such a thought provoking discussion. And pundit rarely bans anyone.

I remember back in the day when there used to be good discussions on TBP.....but they're the epitome of eating their young and being destroyed from within.
I still wonder what got you turfed from TBP. :) But yeah. There's a line I like to use:

"This is Liberty Hall. You can spit on the mat, and call the cat a bastard."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on September 09, 2021, 12:26:53 PM
(Note: I was going to post this in reply to jhkim in the red list thread, but as I reviewed the thread before hitting the post button I think it belongs here more.)

I am a little curious about discussion of this list in other places - I recently saw a Facebook friend briefly mention it, but he said to ignore it. Does anyone have any links to discussion threads?

In principle, I'd think that a list like this could be useful for activists on both sides, letting them know who to buy from and who to avoid.
A few people at TBP wanted to start a discussion of the list at TBP, but that was shut down by the mods. They could have tried to justify the prohibition as a means to limit cross forum drama, but that would’ve been an insufficiently Woke reason, so instead they called this site a “hate site”. (If TheRPGsite is in their demented minds akin to a neo-nazi site it would make sense that they’ll eventually ban their members who are also posting here.)

Thanks, wmarshal. And if you have links, that would be great too.


See, that's what I really find refreshing about this site. I have seen so much within the past couple of days that would have got loads of people banned from big purp. But here, sure blood pressure rises, but man it's been such a thought provoking discussion. And pundit rarely bans anyone.

Yeah, I like a spirited argument - and there are plenty of those here. Though Pundit has banned two people in the past month - SonTodoGatos and Rhedyn - both with no warning. So it is more open than other sites for sure, but there are still limits on expression.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on September 09, 2021, 12:31:03 PM
I still wonder what got you turfed from TBP. :) But yeah. There's a line I like to use:

"This is Liberty Hall. You can spit on the mat, and call the cat a bastard."

I know exactly. So my thirty day ban was because there was a "hurray there are gays in Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, we're represented" thread. I replied, seriously without rancor, that the good thing was I as the DM could change the sex/race of whatever I wanted cause TSR/WotC has told us that for ages. Make the game your own. And that pissed off a mod that said I was suspect as I hadn't posted in a while and I summarily was given the thirty day ban saying I was straightwashing them. I was pissed but got over it. And here's what really got me banned. I put in my avatar, after my ban, that I was "The Straightwasher". Someone noticed, told on me and permabanned due to rule 0, not a good fit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on September 09, 2021, 01:14:06 PM
(Note: I was going to post this in reply to jhkim in the red list thread, but as I reviewed the thread before hitting the post button I think it belongs here more.)

I am a little curious about discussion of this list in other places - I recently saw a Facebook friend briefly mention it, but he said to ignore it. Does anyone have any links to discussion threads?

In principle, I'd think that a list like this could be useful for activists on both sides, letting them know who to buy from and who to avoid.
A few people at TBP wanted to start a discussion of the list at TBP, but that was shut down by the mods. They could have tried to justify the prohibition as a means to limit cross forum drama, but that would’ve been an insufficiently Woke reason, so instead they called this site a “hate site”. (If TheRPGsite is in their demented minds akin to a neo-nazi site it would make sense that they’ll eventually ban their members who are also posting here.)

Thanks, wmarshal. And if you have links, that would be great too.


See, that's what I really find refreshing about this site. I have seen so much within the past couple of days that would have got loads of people banned from big purp. But here, sure blood pressure rises, but man it's been such a thought provoking discussion. And pundit rarely bans anyone.

Yeah, I like a spirited argument - and there are plenty of those here. Though Pundit has banned two people in the past month - SonTodoGatos and Rhedyn - both with no warning. So it is more open than other sites for sure, but there are still limits on expression.

This is the original attempt to discuss the list:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/why-do-antisjws-complain-about-niche-games-they-will-never-play.886481/#post-24040054

This is the attempt to talk about the list without linking directly to the list that got shut down:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/is-it-ok-to-discuss-the-ttrpg-red-list.886560/

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on September 09, 2021, 08:29:49 PM
If you act decently because you want to act decently then that puts you in the same piece of shit category as someone who acts decently because they want to go to heaven.

You just tell yourself a different story.

Sure, because I'm GOD, THE ETERNAL SAVIOUR, so, if I act decently I'll self-save ::)

Yes you are god.

And dont let anyone tell you any different.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 10, 2021, 12:41:14 PM
If you act decently because you want to act decently then that puts you in the same piece of shit category as someone who acts decently because they want to go to heaven.

You just tell yourself a different story.

Sure, because I'm GOD, THE ETERNAL SAVIOUR, so, if I act decently I'll self-save ::)

Yes you are god.

And dont let anyone tell you any different.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c6/8e/1c/c68e1c54710c1a002d4317917e745337.jpg)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on September 10, 2021, 01:25:33 PM
This is the original attempt to discuss the list:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/why-do-antisjws-complain-about-niche-games-they-will-never-play.886481/#post-24040054

This is the attempt to talk about the list without linking directly to the list that got shut down:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/is-it-ok-to-discuss-the-ttrpg-red-list.886560/

Thanks again, wmarshal.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on September 10, 2021, 05:13:53 PM
If you act decently because you want to act decently then that puts you in the same piece of shit category as someone who acts decently because they want to go to heaven.

You just tell yourself a different story.

Sure, because I'm GOD, THE ETERNAL SAVIOUR, so, if I act decently I'll self-save ::)

Yes you are god.

And dont let anyone tell you any different.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c6/8e/1c/c68e1c54710c1a002d4317917e745337.jpg)

And here I thought you didnt even realise.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 10, 2021, 08:11:16 PM
If you act decently because you want to act decently then that puts you in the same piece of shit category as someone who acts decently because they want to go to heaven.

You just tell yourself a different story.

Sure, because I'm GOD, THE ETERNAL SAVIOUR, so, if I act decently I'll self-save ::)

Yes you are god.

And dont let anyone tell you any different.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c6/8e/1c/c68e1c54710c1a002d4317917e745337.jpg)

And here I thought you didnt even realise.

Are you joking? I'm GOD. I INVENTED it 😂
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on September 10, 2021, 08:18:45 PM
If you act decently because you want to act decently then that puts you in the same piece of shit category as someone who acts decently because they want to go to heaven.

You just tell yourself a different story.

Sure, because I'm GOD, THE ETERNAL SAVIOUR, so, if I act decently I'll self-save ::)

Yes you are god.

And dont let anyone tell you any different.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c6/8e/1c/c68e1c54710c1a002d4317917e745337.jpg)

And here I thought you didnt even realise.

Are you joking? I'm GOD. I INVENTED it 😂

I quite clearly used the black text.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on September 14, 2021, 09:43:14 AM
Quote
You left out the best part. The mods are giving out bans for being critical of Satine. Because, literally, they feel it’s wrong to hold women accountable for their actions. Yes, they outright said that!

Whose Satine and who was critical towards her?

Quote
You are only someone whose life and actions are calculated so to please an external entity - be it God, social consensus or anything else - hoping for recognition and a reward.

And for this reason you remain a piece of shit.

Difference is God is Absolute, while social consensus is not... Submitting to external entity in case of God is wise move, and metaphysically sound whether you have "internal values" that disagree with him or not at all (whatever "internal values" would be, I'd rather say internalised).
Therefore in rules of Absolution - contrition due to fear of social scorn is not enough, while contrition due to fear of God wrath is (though imperfect compared to divine love).

That's because well God and social consensus are not really the same.

Quote
Because I condivide Cohle's belief that you should be decent irrespectively of a "reward" of any kind.

The point is... whole decency thing is then based onto... well nothing specific. All wishy-washy. And that's how we end with wokeism judging people harshly based on their empathy (which is type of biological perception that is unequally distributed among mankind).


Quote
So, when I try to be "decent" it is because I want to.

But that just means you like things society considers decent. Different people want different things like burning down kindergartens and based on "I want to" you kinda lack good argument to stop them.



Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 15, 2021, 06:10:44 AM
Difference is God is Absolute, while social consensus is not...

Tell that to a SJW ;)

Quote
Quote
So, when I try to be "decent" it is because I want to.

But that just means you like things society considers decent. Different people want different things like burning down kindergartens and based on "I want to" you kinda lack good argument to stop them.

You forget "responsibility". Once you ditch the chase for external values (and so you can't use the classic "God made me do it! Jodie Foster made me do it!" defence) you alone are responsible of your actions. And responsibility means acceptance of consequences. If you burn down kindergartens, "I want to" will not cut it: you will be impaled and burned. Not every self-regulating value in the society stems from aberrant forms of Social Justice.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 15, 2021, 08:47:53 AM
Back on track.

Alexa, play 'Another One Bites The Dust' by Queen.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ryu238-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.886850/

My guess is they were itching to banhammer this person ever since they linked to here.

EDIT: I should've checked out Trouble Tickets. Get a load of this:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/might-it-be-okay-to-discuss-the-y-the-last-man-tv-show.886832/

'Mother, may I discuss this show?'.  ::)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 15, 2021, 09:05:49 AM
On Police Killings

We recognize that the police killing minorities, the mentally ill, children, and others is an abominable indictment of our society. Such incidents are worthy of being discussed here on RPGnet. However, the boundaries of allowable discourse are necessarily narrow. That these killings happen frequently enough that we need a specific policy to address them is appalling.

When discussing a police killing, please observe the following guidelines:
Limit discussion to one killing per thread, unless they are closely related (multiple killings in close succession by the same police department, for example). Each killing is a tragedy that deserves consideration on its own, and we do not want any sort of 'Police Killing Megathread' to form.
"Threads about police killings are automatically🚦A-Game threads, even if we have not had a chance to label them as such.
In these threads, defenses of the police, or justifications for a killing are not permitted, and will result in lengthy bans.
Discussion of needed police reforms should be spun off into their own threads.
Because, at the end of the day there isn't a lot that can be discussed, beyond how terrible the latest killing was, threads on police killings will be locked when we judge that the discussion has run its course.
This is necessary to avoid the thread becoming a 'megathread' or drifting off topic once people have run out of things to say about the killing. Megathreads can also be attractive nuisances, drawing people to RPGnet just to post in such threads, and we do not want to have to moderate self-perpetuating sources of misery.
If new information about the killing comes to light, such as a police officer being indicted, you may report the locked thread (please include the new information in the report), and we will consider opening it for more discussion.
If a long period of time has elapsed between the original thread and new information, it is permissible to create a new thread, as the old thread may be hard to find. The new thread will be locked after discussion of the new information has run its course, as above."

   The policy for discussing police killings.... How can anyone discuss anything if there is NO ALLOWANCE for discussing it from the police officer's perspective?  That is not a discussion, that is a lynch mob.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 15, 2021, 09:36:59 AM
On Police Killings

We recognize that the police killing minorities, the mentally ill, children, and others is an abominable indictment of our society. Such incidents are worthy of being discussed here on RPGnet. However, the boundaries of allowable discourse are necessarily narrow. That these killings happen frequently enough that we need a specific policy to address them is appalling.

When discussing a police killing, please observe the following guidelines:
Limit discussion to one killing per thread, unless they are closely related (multiple killings in close succession by the same police department, for example). Each killing is a tragedy that deserves consideration on its own, and we do not want any sort of 'Police Killing Megathread' to form.
"Threads about police killings are automatically🚦A-Game threads, even if we have not had a chance to label them as such.
In these threads, defenses of the police, or justifications for a killing are not permitted, and will result in lengthy bans.
Discussion of needed police reforms should be spun off into their own threads.
Because, at the end of the day there isn't a lot that can be discussed, beyond how terrible the latest killing was, threads on police killings will be locked when we judge that the discussion has run its course.
This is necessary to avoid the thread becoming a 'megathread' or drifting off topic once people have run out of things to say about the killing. Megathreads can also be attractive nuisances, drawing people to RPGnet just to post in such threads, and we do not want to have to moderate self-perpetuating sources of misery.
If new information about the killing comes to light, such as a police officer being indicted, you may report the locked thread (please include the new information in the report), and we will consider opening it for more discussion.
If a long period of time has elapsed between the original thread and new information, it is permissible to create a new thread, as the old thread may be hard to find. The new thread will be locked after discussion of the new information has run its course, as above."

   The policy for discussing police killings.... How can anyone discuss anything if there is NO ALLOWANCE for discussing it from the police officer's perspective?  That is not a discussion, that is a lynch mob.
And technically, it violates their policy on group attacks, as it makes it impossible to form any cogent discussion other than 'ACAB'.

But then that would require them to admit that not 'all cops are bastards', and sometimes the shoot IS good, or at least justified.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on September 15, 2021, 11:37:30 AM
On Police Killings

We recognize that the police killing minorities, the mentally ill, children, and others is an abominable indictment of our society. Such incidents are worthy of being discussed here on RPGnet. However, the boundaries of allowable discourse are necessarily narrow. That these killings happen frequently enough that we need a specific policy to address them is appalling.

When discussing a police killing, please observe the following guidelines:
Limit discussion to one killing per thread, unless they are closely related (multiple killings in close succession by the same police department, for example). Each killing is a tragedy that deserves consideration on its own, and we do not want any sort of 'Police Killing Megathread' to form.
"Threads about police killings are automatically🚦A-Game threads, even if we have not had a chance to label them as such.
In these threads, defenses of the police, or justifications for a killing are not permitted, and will result in lengthy bans.
Discussion of needed police reforms should be spun off into their own threads.
Because, at the end of the day there isn't a lot that can be discussed, beyond how terrible the latest killing was, threads on police killings will be locked when we judge that the discussion has run its course.
This is necessary to avoid the thread becoming a 'megathread' or drifting off topic once people have run out of things to say about the killing. Megathreads can also be attractive nuisances, drawing people to RPGnet just to post in such threads, and we do not want to have to moderate self-perpetuating sources of misery.
If new information about the killing comes to light, such as a police officer being indicted, you may report the locked thread (please include the new information in the report), and we will consider opening it for more discussion.
If a long period of time has elapsed between the original thread and new information, it is permissible to create a new thread, as the old thread may be hard to find. The new thread will be locked after discussion of the new information has run its course, as above."

   The policy for discussing police killings.... How can anyone discuss anything if there is NO ALLOWANCE for discussing it from the police officer's perspective?  That is not a discussion, that is a lynch mob.
And technically, it violates their policy on group attacks, as it makes it impossible to form any cogent discussion other than 'ACAB'.

But then that would require them to admit that not 'all cops are bastards', and sometimes the shoot IS good, or at least justified.
A-Game threads are Two Minutes of Hate. That TBP says these threads are to involve discussion is just bait to issue bans for.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 15, 2021, 12:10:51 PM
On Police Killings

We recognize that the police killing minorities, the mentally ill, children, and others is an abominable indictment of our society. Such incidents are worthy of being discussed here on RPGnet. However, the boundaries of allowable discourse are necessarily narrow. That these killings happen frequently enough that we need a specific policy to address them is appalling.

When discussing a police killing, please observe the following guidelines:
Limit discussion to one killing per thread, unless they are closely related (multiple killings in close succession by the same police department, for example). Each killing is a tragedy that deserves consideration on its own, and we do not want any sort of 'Police Killing Megathread' to form.
"Threads about police killings are automatically🚦A-Game threads, even if we have not had a chance to label them as such.
In these threads, defenses of the police, or justifications for a killing are not permitted, and will result in lengthy bans.
Discussion of needed police reforms should be spun off into their own threads.
Because, at the end of the day there isn't a lot that can be discussed, beyond how terrible the latest killing was, threads on police killings will be locked when we judge that the discussion has run its course.
This is necessary to avoid the thread becoming a 'megathread' or drifting off topic once people have run out of things to say about the killing. Megathreads can also be attractive nuisances, drawing people to RPGnet just to post in such threads, and we do not want to have to moderate self-perpetuating sources of misery.
If new information about the killing comes to light, such as a police officer being indicted, you may report the locked thread (please include the new information in the report), and we will consider opening it for more discussion.
If a long period of time has elapsed between the original thread and new information, it is permissible to create a new thread, as the old thread may be hard to find. The new thread will be locked after discussion of the new information has run its course, as above."

   The policy for discussing police killings.... How can anyone discuss anything if there is NO ALLOWANCE for discussing it from the police officer's perspective?  That is not a discussion, that is a lynch mob.
And technically, it violates their policy on group attacks, as it makes it impossible to form any cogent discussion other than 'ACAB'.

But then that would require them to admit that not 'all cops are bastards', and sometimes the shoot IS good, or at least justified.
A-Game threads are Two Minutes of Hate. That TBP says these threads are to involve discussion is just bait to issue bans for.

  It sure seems to be, I guess discussion means attend a lecture and keep your damn mouth shut.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on September 15, 2021, 05:17:27 PM
Back on track.

Alexa, play 'Another One Bites The Dust' by Queen.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ryu238-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.886850/

My guess is they were itching to banhammer this person ever since they linked to here.

EDIT: I should've checked out Trouble Tickets. Get a load of this:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/might-it-be-okay-to-discuss-the-y-the-last-man-tv-show.886832/

'Mother, may I discuss this show?'.  ::)

This from the banning "You joined in 2013 and have been somewhat active since Jan 2020, so you should know the board culture by now." Gawd ain't that the truth. Big purp has a "Culture". And yeah, the amount of meek servility and asking to discuss something. Sheesh.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on September 15, 2021, 05:32:44 PM
Back on track.

Alexa, play 'Another One Bites The Dust' by Queen.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ryu238-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.886850/

My guess is they were itching to banhammer this person ever since they linked to here.

EDIT: I should've checked out Trouble Tickets. Get a load of this:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/might-it-be-okay-to-discuss-the-y-the-last-man-tv-show.886832/

'Mother, may I discuss this show?'.  ::)

This from the banning "You joined in 2013 and have been somewhat active since Jan 2020, so you should know the board culture by now." Gawd ain't that the truth. Big purp has a "Culture". And yeah, the amount of meek servility and asking to discuss something. Sheesh.

Nothing a dose of Penicillin could not fix.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: RandyB on September 15, 2021, 06:03:27 PM
Back on track.

Alexa, play 'Another One Bites The Dust' by Queen.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ryu238-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.886850/

My guess is they were itching to banhammer this person ever since they linked to here.

EDIT: I should've checked out Trouble Tickets. Get a load of this:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/might-it-be-okay-to-discuss-the-y-the-last-man-tv-show.886832/

'Mother, may I discuss this show?'.  ::)

This from the banning "You joined in 2013 and have been somewhat active since Jan 2020, so you should know the board culture by now." Gawd ain't that the truth. Big purp has a "Culture". And yeah, the amount of meek servility and asking to discuss something. Sheesh.

Nothing a dose of Penicillin could not fix.

Disagree.

Some things, even Penicillin can't fix.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on September 15, 2021, 06:20:26 PM
Back on track.

Alexa, play 'Another One Bites The Dust' by Queen.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ryu238-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.886850/

My guess is they were itching to banhammer this person ever since they linked to here.

EDIT: I should've checked out Trouble Tickets. Get a load of this:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/might-it-be-okay-to-discuss-the-y-the-last-man-tv-show.886832/

'Mother, may I discuss this show?'.  ::)

This from the banning "You joined in 2013 and have been somewhat active since Jan 2020, so you should know the board culture by now." Gawd ain't that the truth. Big purp has a "Culture". And yeah, the amount of meek servility and asking to discuss something. Sheesh.

Nothing a dose of Penicillin could not fix.

Disagree.

Some things, even Penicillin can't fix.

Thats only because you have not used enough.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 15, 2021, 06:44:06 PM
I was going to make a similar joke. 'It's got culture like e. coli!'.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: RandyB on September 15, 2021, 07:01:29 PM
Back on track.

Alexa, play 'Another One Bites The Dust' by Queen.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ryu238-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.886850/

My guess is they were itching to banhammer this person ever since they linked to here.

EDIT: I should've checked out Trouble Tickets. Get a load of this:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/might-it-be-okay-to-discuss-the-y-the-last-man-tv-show.886832/

'Mother, may I discuss this show?'.  ::)

This from the banning "You joined in 2013 and have been somewhat active since Jan 2020, so you should know the board culture by now." Gawd ain't that the truth. Big purp has a "Culture". And yeah, the amount of meek servility and asking to discuss something. Sheesh.

Nothing a dose of Penicillin could not fix.

Disagree.

Some things, even Penicillin can't fix.

Thats only because you have not used enough.
Back on track.

Alexa, play 'Another One Bites The Dust' by Queen.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ryu238-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.886850/

My guess is they were itching to banhammer this person ever since they linked to here.

EDIT: I should've checked out Trouble Tickets. Get a load of this:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/might-it-be-okay-to-discuss-the-y-the-last-man-tv-show.886832/

'Mother, may I discuss this show?'.  ::)

This from the banning "You joined in 2013 and have been somewhat active since Jan 2020, so you should know the board culture by now." Gawd ain't that the truth. Big purp has a "Culture". And yeah, the amount of meek servility and asking to discuss something. Sheesh.

Nothing a dose of Penicillin could not fix.

Disagree.

Some things, even Penicillin can't fix.

Thats only because you have not used enough.
Back on track.

Alexa, play 'Another One Bites The Dust' by Queen.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ryu238-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.886850/

My guess is they were itching to banhammer this person ever since they linked to here.

EDIT: I should've checked out Trouble Tickets. Get a load of this:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/might-it-be-okay-to-discuss-the-y-the-last-man-tv-show.886832/

'Mother, may I discuss this show?'.  ::)

This from the banning "You joined in 2013 and have been somewhat active since Jan 2020, so you should know the board culture by now." Gawd ain't that the truth. Big purp has a "Culture". And yeah, the amount of meek servility and asking to discuss something. Sheesh.

Nothing a dose of Penicillin could not fix.

Disagree.

Some things, even Penicillin can't fix.

Thats only because you have not used enough.

Funny. I thought that was true about explosives, not antibiotics.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on September 15, 2021, 07:02:42 PM
Funny. I thought that was true about explosives, not antibiotics.

Medicine is all in the dosage.

Funny. I thought that was true about explosives, not antibiotics.

Medicine is all in the dosage.

Funny. I thought that was true about explosives, not antibiotics.

Medicine is all in the dosage.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 15, 2021, 08:36:52 PM
Back on track.

Alexa, play 'Another One Bites The Dust' by Queen.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ryu238-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.886850/

My guess is they were itching to banhammer this person ever since they linked to here.

EDIT: I should've checked out Trouble Tickets. Get a load of this:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/might-it-be-okay-to-discuss-the-y-the-last-man-tv-show.886832/

'Mother, may I discuss this show?'.  ::)

This from the banning "You joined in 2013 and have been somewhat active since Jan 2020, so you should know the board culture by now." Gawd ain't that the truth. Big purp has a "Culture". And yeah, the amount of meek servility and asking to discuss something. Sheesh.

Nothing a dose of Penicillin could not fix.

Disagree.

Some things, even Penicillin can't fix.
It can if they have a severe allergy to it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 16, 2021, 06:41:22 AM
Back on track.

Alexa, play 'Another One Bites The Dust' by Queen.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ryu238-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.886850/

IMHO, this is the money quote:

"You posted a link to a hate forum to try and stir up cross-board drama"

Here you can post a link to RPG.net without problems, if on RPG.net you post a link to here you are in grave trouble, but this is the "hate forum" ::)

Edit: By mistake I wrote "can't post". What I meant was "can post".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 16, 2021, 07:08:19 AM
Back on track.

Alexa, play 'Another One Bites The Dust' by Queen.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ryu238-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.886850/

IMHO, this is the money quote:

"You posted a link to a hate forum to try and stir up cross-board drama"

Here you can't post a link to RPG.net without problems, if on RPG.net you post a link to here you are in grave trouble, but this is the "hate forum" ::)

  Yeah, that line is very telling.  I guess he doesnt know what hate is.  Now had he said this is the grouchy forum, I would agree.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 16, 2021, 08:14:54 AM
Back on track.

Alexa, play 'Another One Bites The Dust' by Queen.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ryu238-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.886850/

IMHO, this is the money quote:

"You posted a link to a hate forum to try and stir up cross-board drama"

Here you can't post a link to RPG.net without problems, if on RPG.net you post a link to here you are in grave trouble, but this is the "hate forum" ::)

  Yeah, that line is very telling.  I guess he doesnt know what hate is.  Now had he said this is the grouchy forum, I would agree.
This is why I lecture about the importance of words and their meaning. 'Hate', to the TBP mods, is pretty much 'anything that doesn't agree with us'. Because remember, they're the Good Guys, and if you question them you're clearly Bad.

It's the same reason when people blather about how it's awesome to 'punch Nazis' you should be concerned. Because 'Nazi' has been defined downward to 'people we disagree with'.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on September 16, 2021, 03:19:35 PM
Yet not communist, in spite of a history of mass murder, torture, and environmental destruction.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: soundchaser on September 16, 2021, 03:36:36 PM
A grand dumpster fire that place. I earned the badge, I mean a perma-ban, by pointing out that Soviet and Chinese communism (among other social experiments) actually did result in widespread deaths, gulag encampments, and so on.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 16, 2021, 03:55:10 PM
A grand dumpster fire that place. I earned the badge, I mean a perma-ban, by pointing out that Soviet and Chinese communism (among other social experiments) actually did result in widespread deaths, gulag encampments, and so on.
Heh, I dug back through to find your ban, just out of curiousity.

It took them three days to decide 'you're a poor fit' between that last warning and your permaban. You had a grand total of three warnings with two threadbans attached. No time-outs, no 'spend a day/a week/a month to rethink your posting', none of that.

I think you're right. I think they REALLY didn't like it when someone confronted them with the death toll of communism. So of course their reaction is the banhammer.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on September 16, 2021, 05:49:58 PM

Nothing a dose of Penicillin could not fix.

Disagree.

Some things, even Penicillin can't fix.

Thats only because you have not used enough.
For starters...
TBP needs an injection of bleach, fish tank cleaner, and horse de-wormer.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 16, 2021, 06:34:00 PM

Nothing a dose of Penicillin could not fix.

Disagree.

Some things, even Penicillin can't fix.

Thats only because you have not used enough.
For starters...
TBP needs an injection of bleach, fish tank cleaner, and horse de-wormer.
Cobalt irradiation. Kills germs dead.

Jokes aside, I wonder how it's funded. Dyvers Hands turned out a storygame card game, but they don't seem to have done much (if anything) else.

I guess ad revenue helps, but it does explain why they shake the bowl yearly.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Anomalous on September 16, 2021, 10:14:33 PM
What we should do is find the most obnoxiously extreme leftists on all of the toxic RPG sites - you know the ones who are always there posting their drivel - and constantly upvote and support their posts with gushing saccharine replies until we've pushed out every person with a fragment of sanity left.  This will leave the sites either with no supporters or a reduction consisting only of troublesome impossible-to-please supporters.  Either case will eventually result in the disintegration of those places and we can all move on with our lives.

"That was a moving post - I applaud your bravery"  <- Copy/Paste

Tactic 2 would be "Blitzkreig to Godwin!"  where we take every opportunity to subtly move a thread to a discussion about Nazis, causing that thread to be shut down.  This tactic can be employed when the first tactic derails.

Example: https://www.enworld.org/threads/jessica-price-ex-paizo-employee-spills-the-beans.682682/page-14#post-8400082
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on September 16, 2021, 10:47:30 PM
Tactic 2 would be "Blitzkreig to Godwin!"  where we take every opportunity to subtly move a thread to a discussion about Nazis, causing that thread to be shut down.  This tactic can be employed when the first tactic derails.

Example: https://www.enworld.org/threads/jessica-price-ex-paizo-employee-spills-the-beans.682682/page-14#post-8400082

The best thing about that thread was the mod complaining about people not following the narrative.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 17, 2021, 09:35:22 AM
Listen and believe, peasant. All accusations are true and cannot be false.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/chalk-shoutline-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning.886963/

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KingCheops on September 17, 2021, 11:01:22 AM
Listen and believe, peasant. All accusations are true and cannot be false.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/chalk-shoutline-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning.886963/

Lol abuse, infidelity, and even marital rape are the first moves of scumbag divorce attorneys.  It's absolutely okay to take a grain of salt when the accusations come from an ex-wife.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 17, 2021, 11:43:48 AM
Listen and believe, peasant. All accusations are true and cannot be false.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/chalk-shoutline-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning.886963/

  Hey, at least in his avatar he has the title "his honorable tyranny".   So its not like anyone can't see it coming.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on September 17, 2021, 01:21:54 PM
I'm new to this forum (drawn here by the Woke RPG List topic),  so I don't know or care if there is any history between this one and that.  But I was curious about the other forum, because of this thread, so I took a peek.

"HOLY SHITBALLS, ARCHER!", as Pam would say.

What a mess. I've been around forums, and even moderated a few.
Three blazingly obvious problems.
1. A subforum of lists of who has been banned/modded. You don't take trophies or make shame-lists. Any decent  manager of any decent company will say "Praise in public, punish in private ". It's not about transparency. Just make a mod note in the thread and move on.
2. A multipage screed for a set of forum rules. Rules are good if concise, and applied fairly.  This one even states which political candidates you are/aren't allowed to support.
3. Political statements on the front mast. It's nice that they support people, but the the 2020 "we stand for Asians/Pacific Islanders in light of recent attacks " lacks context. 1. Those are many different groups of people, some of whom can't stand each other, being lumped together. 2. It was born of a 2020 lie-of-omission by the media, who didn't discuss what group was disproportionately doing those attacks, because they wanted to pin it on "evil white Trumpers!". Now they have pinned statements that they can never, ever remove, or their own members will revolt.

What a shit-show.  I dare not dig too deeply.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 17, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
I'm new to this forum (drawn here by the Woke RPG List topic),  so I don't know or care if there is any history between this one and that.  But I was curious about the other forum, because of this thread, so I took a peek.

"HOLY SHITBALLS, ARCHER!", as Pam would say.

What a mess. I've been around forums, and even moderated a few.
Three blazingly obvious problems.
1. A subforum of lists of who has been banned/modded. You don't take trophies or make shame-lists. Any decent  manager of any decent company will say "Praise in public, punish in private ". It's not about transparency. Just make a mod note in the thread and move on.
2. A multipage screed for a set of forum rules. Rules are good if concise, and applied fairly.  This one even states which political candidates you are/aren't allowed to support.
3. Political statements on the front mast. It's nice that they support people, but the the 2020 "we stand for Asians/Pacific Islanders in light of recent attacks " lacks context. 1. Those are many different groups of people, some of whom can't stand each other, being lumped together. 2. It was born of a 2020 lie-of-omission by the media, who didn't discuss what group was disproportionately doing those attacks, because they wanted to pin it on "evil white Trumpers!". Now they have pinned statements that they can never, ever remove, or their own members will revolt.

What a shit-show.  I dare not dig too deeply.
Too late. Roll for SAN loss.

While I would be generally willing to have a subforum to show bans/infractions in the interests of transparency, you aren't wrong. That forum's not about transparency -- it's a trophy rack.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 17, 2021, 02:51:40 PM
I'm new to this forum (drawn here by the Woke RPG List topic),  so I don't know or care if there is any history between this one and that.  But I was curious about the other forum, because of this thread, so I took a peek.

"HOLY SHITBALLS, ARCHER!", as Pam would say.

What a mess. I've been around forums, and even moderated a few.
Three blazingly obvious problems.
1. A subforum of lists of who has been banned/modded. You don't take trophies or make shame-lists. Any decent  manager of any decent company will say "Praise in public, punish in private ". It's not about transparency. Just make a mod note in the thread and move on.
2. A multipage screed for a set of forum rules. Rules are good if concise, and applied fairly.  This one even states which political candidates you are/aren't allowed to support.
3. Political statements on the front mast. It's nice that they support people, but the the 2020 "we stand for Asians/Pacific Islanders in light of recent attacks " lacks context. 1. Those are many different groups of people, some of whom can't stand each other, being lumped together. 2. It was born of a 2020 lie-of-omission by the media, who didn't discuss what group was disproportionately doing those attacks, because they wanted to pin it on "evil white Trumpers!". Now they have pinned statements that they can never, ever remove, or their own members will revolt.

What a shit-show.  I dare not dig too deeply.
Too late. Roll for SAN loss.

While I would be generally willing to have a subforum to show bans/infractions in the interests of transparency, you aren't wrong. That forum's not about transparency -- it's a trophy rack.

  Well, it is a rack of trophies taken in a canned hunt though.  I have seen them literally make a rule on the spot or use a rule to mean something it did not say to stick it to people.   Those folks have their thing and I am glad it is not my thing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Novastar on September 17, 2021, 05:01:51 PM
If the Banned subforum was just informational, it wouldn't be so bad; but the Mod's always take a last snarky swipe at whomever they've banned.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 19, 2021, 11:18:23 AM
This HAS to be a troll: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/truth-or-dare-is-an-unethical-game.886994/

(Note: this is in Tangency so you'll need an account to see the thread)

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 19, 2021, 04:28:32 PM
That place is gross.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: ChrisFox on September 19, 2021, 11:13:51 PM
Can anyone give me some (brief) context about
This HAS to be a troll: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/truth-or-dare-is-an-unethical-game.886994/

(Note: this is in Tangency so you'll need an account to see the thread)



IMO the type of person to make a thread demonizing truth or dare is doing it because they were never invited to a game of truth or dare. Or any other social event.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on September 20, 2021, 05:45:00 AM
This HAS to be a troll: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/truth-or-dare-is-an-unethical-game.886994/

(Note: this is in Tangency so you'll need an account to see the thread)

We all did shit like that as a kid. And I don't think the world was ruined. The only way that shit really becomes 'unethical' is if someone has a gun pointed to you head and says 'you must play'.

What a bunch of oxygen thieves.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 20, 2021, 09:53:06 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/geoff-watson-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-and-threadban.887024/

They REALLY don't like having people point out hypocrisy on their part. I think they're STILL smarting over the Matt McFarland debacle. Also, Dawgstar snottily remarks, 'For yet another in a long string of terrible takes...' but there doesn't seem to be any other infractions on Geoff's part.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/rokomocha-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-zero-racism-apologism.887020/

Once again, TBP mods fail to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Honestly, the whole 'no fantasy racism allowed' eliminates an entire storytelling angle.

But then, leftists aren't very creative anyways so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 20, 2021, 10:12:56 AM
  Seems like rule 0 is the rule to rule all the rules.  If you want to ban someone, just say rule 0 and ban em.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on September 20, 2021, 10:15:19 AM
I'm alright with killing orc babies en masse. They should be exterminated.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 20, 2021, 10:55:31 AM
I'm alright with killing orc babies en masse. They should be exterminated.
It goes back to worldbuilding for the DM. You can make your orcs (or elves, or dwarfs, etc) how you like. Evil spirits clothed in flesh? Sapient fungi? Neanderthal-like offshoot? It's YOUR game. Do what you want.

The problem we have are the retards who want to bitch about games they don't even play.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on September 20, 2021, 11:07:40 AM
I'm alright with killing orc babies en masse. They should be exterminated.
It goes back to worldbuilding for the DM. You can make your orcs (or elves, or dwarfs, etc) how you like. Evil spirits clothed in flesh? Sapient fungi? Neanderthal-like offshoot? It's YOUR game. Do what you want.

The problem we have are the retards who want to bitch about games they don't even play.

Well this is it... The options are limitless. They can have all the orcs as master bakers in their games for all I care.

But why they get their knickers in such a knot over imaginary orcs in an imaginary game is absolutely fucking pathetic. What a bunch of bed wetters!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 20, 2021, 07:51:06 PM
At least most of the cancerous toxic to the hobby remains contained there. Some are lost and just need to be pointed the way, like this clown (https://www.therpgsite.com/reviews/knights-and-legends-dark-ink/). The dude is cringy af, desperate need for attention, gets easily triggered, etc. Definitely fits with the lunatics of rpg.not
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 20, 2021, 08:11:38 PM
At least most of the cancerous toxic to the hobby remains contained there. Some are lost and just need to be pointed the way, like this clown (https://www.therpgsite.com/reviews/knights-and-legends-dark-ink/). The dude is cringy af, desperate need for attention, gets easily triggered, etc. Definitely fits with the lunatics of rpg.not
The dude took the time to review your product. He may have been critical of it, but you might do well to consider some of his points if you aim to improve your works. Attacking your critics is generally bad form (look how it worked for Disney).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 20, 2021, 08:21:15 PM
At least most of the cancerous toxic to the hobby remains contained there. Some are lost and just need to be pointed the way, like this clown (https://www.therpgsite.com/reviews/knights-and-legends-dark-ink/). The dude is cringy af, desperate need for attention, gets easily triggered, etc. Definitely fits with the lunatics of rpg.not
The dude took the time to review your product. He may have been critical of it, but you might do well to consider some of his points if you aim to improve your works. Attacking your critics is generally bad form (look how it worked for Disney).

Oh please, these trolls think they’re “destroying” it. I’ll accept legit reviews, not troll reviews. Your review wasn’t bad but your star rating sucked. I thanked you regardless.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: EvilKam on September 21, 2021, 12:19:37 PM
Hey Felix, let's say my characters are injured after a fight.  What page of the book covers healing rates?  I can't find those rules, can you give me a page number?

And while I'm at it, how fast do characters recover magic points or mana?  Is it a set amount per day or hour or something?  I can't find those rules either.


Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 21, 2021, 01:28:43 PM
This isn't the 'review Felix's books' thread. Give it a rest. Go post DMs at each other or talk in the Reviews subforum.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 21, 2021, 01:39:41 PM
This isn't the 'review Felix's books' thread. Give it a rest. Go post DMs at each other or talk in the Reviews subforum.

Don’t waste your time on this fool. That’s what he does… just ban!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: EvilKam on September 21, 2021, 01:50:02 PM
I might be a fool, but I am not foolish enough to mess with Chlorine trifluoride. ;)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 21, 2021, 03:00:17 PM
This isn't the 'review Felix's books' thread. Give it a rest. Go post DMs at each other or talk in the Reviews subforum.

Don’t waste your time on this fool. That’s what he does… just ban!
LOL, I'm not a mod. I'm just the thread starter.

But the report button's only a short mouse click away.

I'm glad we're all understanding each other, though.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 21, 2021, 05:00:21 PM
This isn't the 'review Felix's books' thread. Give it a rest. Go post DMs at each other or talk in the Reviews subforum.

Don’t waste your time on this fool. That’s what he does… just ban!
LOL, I'm not a mod. I'm just the thread starter.

But the report button's only a short mouse click away.

I'm glad we're all understanding each other, though.

I mean, this guys is so unworthy of my time, I refuse to spend 10 seconds of my time reporting him. Beyond the people.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 22, 2021, 08:04:23 AM
Yesterday was a busy day for TBP's jannies.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ted-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-threadban.887126/

Thou shalt not contradict the narrative, peasant. No evidence in favor of the accused allowed, even anecdotal.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/quasar-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-and-topic-ban-australian-politics.887127/

Your guess is as good as mine. But from the context, I guess the TBP mods aren't willing to endorse sexist takes against unvaxxed. Yet, anyways.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/chalk-shoutline-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-derailing-abuse-discussion.887130/

Listen and believe, peasant.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/eudaimic-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-reporting-redtext-holdoing.887131/

No backtalking the mods either (really, Eudaimic, you've been there since 2003, you should know how pissy the mods get when the serfs get uppity).

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/lewd-beholder-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-othering-jokes.887133/

"Waaaah, how dare you stereotype a common stereotype, waaaaah."

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ivy-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning.887134/

I have to admit that's actually pretty funny -- the image, anyways. Guess the mods don't like reminders that most of the Dem backfield is made up of geriatrics (yes, I know, the GOP has similar issues).

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvago-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban-derailing-in-an-a-game-thread.887160/

And remember, you don't ever get to defend yourself or others from allegations while on TBP. Otherwise you're just another shitlord.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: EvilKam on September 22, 2021, 03:50:44 PM
So as an outsider who hasn't been watching this situation develop over the years...

Holy crap, It'll take a lot of effort to dive through 17 pages of posts, but this really looks like a toxic shitstorm on rpg.net.  I wonder how long it will be before the site admins decide to purge the hilarious reviews of Jason Sartin and Darren McLennan for being "too mean" when reviewing such gems as Senzar and World of Synnibar.

Maybe I should make sure to archive those gems, lest they be canceled and deleted from history.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 22, 2021, 04:19:01 PM
So as an outsider who hasn't been watching this situation develop over the years...

Holy crap, It'll take a lot of effort to dive through 17 pages of posts, but this really looks like a toxic shitstorm on rpg.net.  I wonder how long it will be before the site admins decide to purge the hilarious reviews of Jason Sartin and Darren McLennan for being "too mean" when reviewing such gems as Senzar and World of Synnibar.

Maybe I should make sure to archive those gems, lest they be canceled and deleted from history.
McLennan is still a mod on TBP (he's Cannibal Smiley). However, as has been seen before, a mod who decides to go against the grain may find themselves on the outs no matter what their prior wokeness was.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on September 22, 2021, 10:55:36 PM

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/eudaimic-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-reporting-redtext-holdoing.887131/

No backtalking the mods either (really, Eudaimic, you've been there since 2003, you should know how pissy the mods get when the serfs get uppity).


Great Zonk, they’re unironically using “holdo” as a verb?!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on September 23, 2021, 12:50:19 AM
Ah, Holdo.

The gift that just keeps giving.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Aglondir on September 23, 2021, 01:53:02 AM
Maybe I should make sure to archive those gems, lest they be canceled and deleted from history.
Speaking of gems, do any of you old-timers recall AB3's stories about the "horrific" gaming sessions he endured?

I'm sure those are long gone.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Godfather Punk on September 23, 2021, 05:06:25 AM
Are those the ones with Lamont the incontinent dog and the Stick of Pain?
I think here's the first one: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-day-i-killed-the-entire-party-before-the-first-combat-encounter.12210/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 23, 2021, 07:17:11 AM
Yes. The Mountain Dew bottle use scarred my brain.

He's still writing, though. http://albruno3.blogspot.com
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 23, 2021, 08:35:57 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/myrme-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban.887209/

Considering how the TBP jannies maul the English language in their attempts to justify themselves, seeing one complain about 'insulting a people's language' is darkly amusing.

Of course it's Tanka, who never grew up from his high school days.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on September 23, 2021, 03:54:34 PM
Maybe I should make sure to archive those gems, lest they be canceled and deleted from history.
Speaking of gems, do any of you old-timers recall AB3's stories about the "horrific" gaming sessions he endured?

I'm sure those are long gone.

Oh gads yes. Those are some entertaining reading

In fact there was some really good stuff back in the day. Stuff I haven't seen in years. Like the describe your game as movie trailers. Or the fantasy fucking vietnam dungeon crawl. And of course the ever popular hat of d02
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 24, 2021, 07:01:38 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/rokomocha-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-zero-racism-apologism.887020/

Once again, TBP mods fail to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Honestly, the whole 'no fantasy racism allowed' eliminates an entire storytelling angle.

That was a very interesting post, and the poster got banned for surreal reasons. I hope that he comes over here, because it would be a pity to lose him.

Quote
But then, leftists aren't very creative anyways so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I disagree: creativity is not tied to your political Worldview. Fanatics however, are creative only when it comes to justify their obsessions. On this I agree.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 24, 2021, 08:16:27 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvago-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban-derailing-in-an-a-game-thread.887160/

And remember, you don't ever get to defend yourself or others from allegations while on TBP. Otherwise you're just another shitlord.

IMHO, this is the most chilling one. "Innocent until proven guilty" (or "Presumption of innocence") is an international Human Right under the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. As heavy as it seems, RPG.net is now posing themselves as human rights violators.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 24, 2021, 08:23:35 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvago-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban-derailing-in-an-a-game-thread.887160/

And remember, you don't ever get to defend yourself or others from allegations while on TBP. Otherwise you're just another shitlord.

IMHO, this is the most chilling one. "Innocent until proven guilty" (or "Presumption of innocence") is an international Human Right under the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. As heavy as it seems, RPG.net is now posing themselves as human rights violators.
Eh, the UN's declaration isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Look at some of the members and tell me they EVER gave a damn about human rights.

That being said, remember that TBP mods are ALL about 'listen and believe'. Proof (or lack thereof) is irrelevant. It only becomes a serious issue when they get burned (Black Hat Matt, for example).

When they're not suffering massive attacks of no-shit idiocy, anyways. Case in point: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/talakeal-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.887236/

I swear, it's like Dawgstar goes out of his way to creatively interpret posts in the worst possible way.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Gagarth on September 24, 2021, 09:27:31 AM
The arseholes at RPG.NET have gone completely insane.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 24, 2021, 09:56:40 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvago-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban-derailing-in-an-a-game-thread.887160/

And remember, you don't ever get to defend yourself or others from allegations while on TBP. Otherwise you're just another shitlord.

IMHO, this is the most chilling one. "Innocent until proven guilty" (or "Presumption of innocence") is an international Human Right under the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. As heavy as it seems, RPG.net is now posing themselves as human rights violators.
Eh, the UN's declaration isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Look at some of the members and tell me they EVER gave a damn about human rights.

Fine. This is just another way to say that RPG.net doesn't give a damn about Human Rights. This doesn't make Human Rights wrong or those who ignore them "Paladins of Justice".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 24, 2021, 10:53:33 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvago-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban-derailing-in-an-a-game-thread.887160/

And remember, you don't ever get to defend yourself or others from allegations while on TBP. Otherwise you're just another shitlord.

IMHO, this is the most chilling one. "Innocent until proven guilty" (or "Presumption of innocence") is an international Human Right under the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. As heavy as it seems, RPG.net is now posing themselves as human rights violators.
Eh, the UN's declaration isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Look at some of the members and tell me they EVER gave a damn about human rights.

Fine. This is just another way to say that RPG.net doesn't give a damn about Human Rights. This doesn't make Human Rights wrong or those who ignore them "Paladins of Justice".
“Ah, yes, the "unalienable rights." Each year someone quotes that magnificent poetry. Life? What "right" to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What "right" to life has a man who must die if he is to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of "right"? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man's right is "unalienable"? And is it "right"? As to liberty, the heroes who signed the great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called natural human rights that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost.

"The third "right"? - the "pursuit of happiness"? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can "pursue happiness" as long as my brain lives - but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can insure that I will catch it.” --Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

In any case, though, you're not entirely wrong. But I daresay a TBP mod would argue that the 'right' of the posters to not be 'triggered' by unpleasant discussion to override any quibbling about things like 'due process'. And that the 'rights' of criminals are more meaningful than that of a policeman defending himself (referencing their stance on police shootings).

You might consider reading Kevin Baker's commentary on this: https://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2003/05/before-i-go-to-bed-who-am-i-fooling.html

He makes a good point: ultimately, rights are what a society agrees on and believes in. TBP is a micro-society, yes, but it has decided that trembling snowflakes have the right to not be triggered by dispassionate discussions about unpleasant things like slavery, or that negative criticism of a topic is tantamount to 'threadcrapping' and should be stamped out. I'm sure the Taliban would be happy to lecture on the 'rights' of the menfolk in their society, as well. Maybe we should arrange a meeting between the two. And sell tickets to the pay per view.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on September 24, 2021, 01:28:53 PM
Greetings!

Earlier this morning I read an article which discussed an interview with the Taliban's chief Imam and enforcer. The Taliban has announced that "Strict punishments and executions will return". The Imam said that no one will tell the Taliban what their laws can be. The Taliban will make their laws based on the Koran.

The UN and the United States both have complained and protested the Taliban's policy--and the Taliban has told them all to get fucked.

All the sniveling SJW's and Marxists would have such a good time living under the Taliban government.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 24, 2021, 01:43:08 PM
Greetings!

Earlier this morning I read an article which discussed an interview with the Taliban's chief Imam and enforcer. The Taliban has announced that "Strict punishments and executions will return". The Imam said that no one will tell the Taliban what their laws can be. The Taliban will make their laws based on the Koran.

The UN and the United States both have complained and protested the Taliban's policy--and the Taliban has told them all to get fucked.

All the sniveling SJW's and Marxists would have such a good time living under the Taliban government.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
I can't decide if the protests are just pro forma or if they honest to God believe their puling will change the Taliban's minds.

If it's the former, I suppose I can at least accept it as realpolitik, the movement of a pawn or two in the chess game. It still looks silly.

If it's the latter, then the current regime is made up of phenomenal fucking morons.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 24, 2021, 03:32:21 PM
  Thing with rights and freedom, they are not given.  They have to be taken.  If you are not willing to die for those things, you will not have them.  The Taliban was willing to die for what they wanted.  The queefs the USA trained were not, hell not even  willing to sweat for the most part.  This is a constant cycle for everything, everywhere, ever. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 24, 2021, 05:17:58 PM
  Thing with rights and freedom, they are not given.  They have to be taken.  If you are not willing to die for those things, you will not have them.  The Taliban was willing to die for what they wanted.

This guy too. It didn't end well.

(https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/pattillmanstatue800.jpg)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on September 25, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
I can’t decide if TBP has a complete absence of a sense of humor, or if this guy is a deliberate target of the mods that they’ll interpret this guy’s post in the worst way possible. If the latter, the mods there are just some sick sadists for dragging this out, and not just going to a rule 0 ban.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/numanoid-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban.887310/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on September 25, 2021, 10:18:06 AM
I can’t decide if TBP has a complete absence of a sense of humor, or if this guy is a deliberate target of the mods that they’ll interpret this guy’s post in the worst way possible. If the latter, the mods there are just some sick sadists for dragging this out, and not just going to a rule 0 ban.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/numanoid-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban.887310/


for a comment made in 2019.. someone had to DIG for that

or maybe they just went to the posters history and saw he had made a similar joke. Still, to use something from 2 years ago is just petty.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 25, 2021, 11:37:41 AM
I can't even tell what he ate the thirty day ban for. The content goes to his profile.

He caught a threadban and warning for a joke he made Monday ('how to make Mutants and Masterminds 3E more gritty? Dip it in glue and coat it in coarse sand!').

Not constructive, but still funny.

He should probably start making his exit plan.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on September 25, 2021, 11:54:18 AM
It seems that when you are Woke, everything has to be 100% serious 100% of the time. If you don’t understand that something is a joke, then it must be some kind of subversion of your ideology. At least TBP doesn’t have the authority to kill comedians like the Taliban is doing now, but I can easily see some kind of Comedy Review Board coming along in the next 20 years. Similar to the old Comics Code Authority.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on September 25, 2021, 02:17:36 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/rokomocha-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-zero-racism-apologism.887020/

Once again, TBP mods fail to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Honestly, the whole 'no fantasy racism allowed' eliminates an entire storytelling angle.
That was a very interesting post, and the poster got banned for surreal reasons. I hope that he comes over here, because it would be a pity to lose him.
It was such an insightful post that I saved it to my hard drive. It does a better job of explaining the mood and assumptions of an OSR setting than I can do myself. If I ever run something in Greyhawk, I might ask my players to read it so they know what to expect.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on September 25, 2021, 02:21:55 PM
I can’t decide if TBP has a complete absence of a sense of humor, or if this guy is a deliberate target of the mods that they’ll interpret this guy’s post in the worst way possible. If the latter, the mods there are just some sick sadists for dragging this out, and not just going to a rule 0 ban.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/numanoid-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban.887310/
"Making Mutants and Masterminds 3E more gritty?" -- "Coat the book in glue and dip it in course sand."

Heh. That's pretty funny. But leftists are not known for their sense of humor. Just the opposite, in fact.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on September 25, 2021, 04:22:30 PM
I can't even tell what he ate the thirty day ban for. The content goes to his profile.

He caught a threadban and warning for a joke he made Monday ('how to make Mutants and Masterminds 3E more gritty? Dip it in glue and coat it in coarse sand!').

Not constructive, but still funny.

He should probably start making his exit plan.

from what I can tell, he made a joke 2 years ago about orcs turning human into glue in a thread that was about what makes human societies "stick together", social glue if you will. The ban that time was lenient (3 days and a threadban) because he was making a tasteless joke in an otherwise serious thread. (threadcrapping) He was also warned that he should stop threadcrapping. or else.

So now more recently he joked about glue -again. The mod after a warning then searched his history and found the 2 year old warning. So they upped it to 1 month
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on September 25, 2021, 04:36:00 PM
It’s all very well to joke but do you know how exhausting it is to have to constantly search posters history to find excuses to ban them?

Won’t someone think of the poor Mods?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 26, 2021, 08:49:08 AM
It’s all very well to joke but do you know how exhausting it is to have to constantly search posters history to find excuses to ban them?

Won’t someone think of the poor Mods?
I am thinking of them. I think they should quit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Godfather Punk on September 26, 2021, 10:43:05 AM
Some random though, overspill from the Price thread... If you need to ban everybody who's been a member for over 15 years because they're "not a good fit for the forum", maybe it's just that you're just not a good fit to moderate that forum.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on September 26, 2021, 02:11:54 PM
Some random though, overspill from the Price thread... If you need to ban everybody who's been a member for over 15 years because they're "not a good fit for the forum", maybe it's just that you're just not a good fit to moderate that forum.

Yeah, when posting on RPG.net feels like having a sword of Damocles hanging over you, it's time to go.

When you rule by creating fear, thats the sign of a bad leadership.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 26, 2021, 02:19:13 PM
Some random though, overspill from the Price thread... If you need to ban everybody who's been a member for over 15 years because they're "not a good fit for the forum", maybe it's just that you're just not a good fit to moderate that forum.

Yeah, when posting on RPG.net feels like having a sword of Damocles hanging over you, it's time to go.

When you rule by creating fear, thats the sign of a bad leadership.

Best thing to do is to avoid gross zealotry by not participating in toxic communities. Geek and Pub are two others I personally recommend avoiding. They follow the same dictatorship, possibly some of the same losers who are slowly dissolving the hobby into something evil and twisted.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Joey2k on September 26, 2021, 05:58:40 PM
Some random though, overspill from the Price thread... If you need to ban everybody who's been a member for over 15 years because they're "not a good fit for the forum", maybe it's just that you're just not a good fit to moderate that forum.

Yeah, when posting on RPG.net feels like having a sword of Damocles hanging over you, it's time to go.

When you rule by creating fear, thats the sign of a bad leadership.

Best thing to do is to avoid gross zealotry by not participating in toxic communities. Geek and Pub are two others I personally recommend avoiding. They follow the same dictatorship, possibly some of the same losers who are slowly dissolving the hobby into something evil and twisted.

Are you referring to rpgpub? I'm not over there all that often, but from what I've seen it's fairly innocuous. What have you witnessed over there?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 26, 2021, 07:02:41 PM
Some random though, overspill from the Price thread... If you need to ban everybody who's been a member for over 15 years because they're "not a good fit for the forum", maybe it's just that you're just not a good fit to moderate that forum.

Yeah, when posting on RPG.net feels like having a sword of Damocles hanging over you, it's time to go.

When you rule by creating fear, thats the sign of a bad leadership.

Best thing to do is to avoid gross zealotry by not participating in toxic communities. Geek and Pub are two others I personally recommend avoiding. They follow the same dictatorship, possibly some of the same losers who are slowly dissolving the hobby into something evil and twisted.

Are you referring to rpgpub? I'm not over there all that often, but from what I've seen it's fairly innocuous. What have you witnessed over there?

Wokeness, loserness, and typical hive mentality you’ll find on Reddit. Same perps from geek in some occasions. If you defy their logic then you get the ban hammer. That dude from zweihander is there too, giving “advice” to beginners, forgot his name.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bunch on September 26, 2021, 11:19:11 PM
Some random though, overspill from the Price thread... If you need to ban everybody who's been a member for over 15 years because they're "not a good fit for the forum", maybe it's just that you're just not a good fit to moderate that forum.

Yeah, when posting on RPG.net feels like having a sword of Damocles hanging over you, it's time to go.

When you rule by creating fear, thats the sign of a bad leadership.

Best thing to do is to avoid gross zealotry by not participating in toxic communities. Geek and Pub are two others I personally recommend avoiding. They follow the same dictatorship, possibly some of the same losers who are slowly dissolving the hobby into something evil and twisted.

Are you referring to rpgpub? I'm not over there all that often, but from what I've seen it's fairly innocuous. What have you witnessed over there?

Wokeness, loserness, and typical hive mentality you’ll find on Reddit. Same perps from geek in some occasions. If you defy their logic then you get the ban hammer. That dude from zweihander is there too, giving “advice” to beginners, forgot his name.

I think only four people have been banned from RPGPub and two of them are ZakS and Zwiehander (Daniel Fox)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 27, 2021, 07:02:13 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvago-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban-derailing-in-an-a-game-thread.887160/

And remember, you don't ever get to defend yourself or others from allegations while on TBP. Otherwise you're just another shitlord.

IMHO, this is the most chilling one. "Innocent until proven guilty" (or "Presumption of innocence") is an international Human Right under the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. As heavy as it seems, RPG.net is now posing themselves as human rights violators.
Eh, the UN's declaration isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Look at some of the members and tell me they EVER gave a damn about human rights.

Fine. This is just another way to say that RPG.net doesn't give a damn about Human Rights. This doesn't make Human Rights wrong or those who ignore them "Paladins of Justice".
“Ah, yes, the "unalienable rights." Each year someone quotes that magnificent poetry. Life? What "right" to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What "right" to life has a man who must die if he is to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of "right"? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man's right is "unalienable"? And is it "right"? As to liberty, the heroes who signed the great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called natural human rights that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost.

"The third "right"? - the "pursuit of happiness"? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can "pursue happiness" as long as my brain lives - but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can insure that I will catch it.” --Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

In any case, though, you're not entirely wrong. But I daresay a TBP mod would argue that the 'right' of the posters to not be 'triggered' by unpleasant discussion to override any quibbling about things like 'due process'. And that the 'rights' of criminals are more meaningful than that of a policeman defending himself (referencing their stance on police shootings).

You might consider reading Kevin Baker's commentary on this: https://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2003/05/before-i-go-to-bed-who-am-i-fooling.html

He makes a good point: ultimately, rights are what a society agrees on and believes in.

Let me make a wild guess: this guy never saw "Twelve Angry Men".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 27, 2021, 09:14:45 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvago-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban-derailing-in-an-a-game-thread.887160/

And remember, you don't ever get to defend yourself or others from allegations while on TBP. Otherwise you're just another shitlord.

IMHO, this is the most chilling one. "Innocent until proven guilty" (or "Presumption of innocence") is an international Human Right under the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. As heavy as it seems, RPG.net is now posing themselves as human rights violators.
Eh, the UN's declaration isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Look at some of the members and tell me they EVER gave a damn about human rights.

Fine. This is just another way to say that RPG.net doesn't give a damn about Human Rights. This doesn't make Human Rights wrong or those who ignore them "Paladins of Justice".
“Ah, yes, the "unalienable rights." Each year someone quotes that magnificent poetry. Life? What "right" to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What "right" to life has a man who must die if he is to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of "right"? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man's right is "unalienable"? And is it "right"? As to liberty, the heroes who signed the great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called natural human rights that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost.

"The third "right"? - the "pursuit of happiness"? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can "pursue happiness" as long as my brain lives - but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can insure that I will catch it.” --Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

In any case, though, you're not entirely wrong. But I daresay a TBP mod would argue that the 'right' of the posters to not be 'triggered' by unpleasant discussion to override any quibbling about things like 'due process'. And that the 'rights' of criminals are more meaningful than that of a policeman defending himself (referencing their stance on police shootings).

You might consider reading Kevin Baker's commentary on this: https://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2003/05/before-i-go-to-bed-who-am-i-fooling.html

He makes a good point: ultimately, rights are what a society agrees on and believes in.

Let me make a wild guess: this guy never saw "Twelve Angry Men".
Why don't you ask him? His blog's now at smallestminority.org. He has a comments section. He likes to engage.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on September 28, 2021, 03:10:40 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvago-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban-derailing-in-an-a-game-thread.887160/

And remember, you don't ever get to defend yourself or others from allegations while on TBP. Otherwise you're just another shitlord.

IMHO, this is the most chilling one. "Innocent until proven guilty" (or "Presumption of innocence") is an international Human Right under the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. As heavy as it seems, RPG.net is now posing themselves as human rights violators.
Eh, the UN's declaration isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Look at some of the members and tell me they EVER gave a damn about human rights.

Fine. This is just another way to say that RPG.net doesn't give a damn about Human Rights. This doesn't make Human Rights wrong or those who ignore them "Paladins of Justice".
“Ah, yes, the "unalienable rights." Each year someone quotes that magnificent poetry. Life? What "right" to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What "right" to life has a man who must die if he is to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of "right"? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man's right is "unalienable"? And is it "right"? As to liberty, the heroes who signed the great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called natural human rights that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost.

"The third "right"? - the "pursuit of happiness"? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can "pursue happiness" as long as my brain lives - but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can insure that I will catch it.” --Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

In any case, though, you're not entirely wrong. But I daresay a TBP mod would argue that the 'right' of the posters to not be 'triggered' by unpleasant discussion to override any quibbling about things like 'due process'. And that the 'rights' of criminals are more meaningful than that of a policeman defending himself (referencing their stance on police shootings).

You might consider reading Kevin Baker's commentary on this: https://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2003/05/before-i-go-to-bed-who-am-i-fooling.html

He makes a good point: ultimately, rights are what a society agrees on and believes in.

Let me make a wild guess: this guy never saw "Twelve Angry Men".
Why don't you ask him? His blog's now at smallestminority.org. He has a comments section. He likes to engage.

With "engaging" meaning "a podium and a megaphone"? It is a serious question.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 28, 2021, 06:25:31 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvago-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban-derailing-in-an-a-game-thread.887160/

And remember, you don't ever get to defend yourself or others from allegations while on TBP. Otherwise you're just another shitlord.

IMHO, this is the most chilling one. "Innocent until proven guilty" (or "Presumption of innocence") is an international Human Right under the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. As heavy as it seems, RPG.net is now posing themselves as human rights violators.
Eh, the UN's declaration isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Look at some of the members and tell me they EVER gave a damn about human rights.

Fine. This is just another way to say that RPG.net doesn't give a damn about Human Rights. This doesn't make Human Rights wrong or those who ignore them "Paladins of Justice".
“Ah, yes, the "unalienable rights." Each year someone quotes that magnificent poetry. Life? What "right" to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What "right" to life has a man who must die if he is to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of "right"? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man's right is "unalienable"? And is it "right"? As to liberty, the heroes who signed the great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called natural human rights that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost.

"The third "right"? - the "pursuit of happiness"? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can "pursue happiness" as long as my brain lives - but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can insure that I will catch it.” --Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

In any case, though, you're not entirely wrong. But I daresay a TBP mod would argue that the 'right' of the posters to not be 'triggered' by unpleasant discussion to override any quibbling about things like 'due process'. And that the 'rights' of criminals are more meaningful than that of a policeman defending himself (referencing their stance on police shootings).

You might consider reading Kevin Baker's commentary on this: https://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2003/05/before-i-go-to-bed-who-am-i-fooling.html

He makes a good point: ultimately, rights are what a society agrees on and believes in.

Let me make a wild guess: this guy never saw "Twelve Angry Men".
Why don't you ask him? His blog's now at smallestminority.org. He has a comments section. He likes to engage.

With "engaging" meaning "a podium and a megaphone"? It is a serious question.
And it was a serious response. I have no idea if he saw "Twelve Angry Men". I have no idea what the hell your point is, other than you don't like the angle he (and I) were making.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 28, 2021, 08:10:19 AM
Getting back on track here.

Dawgstar denies reality, warns someone for having the nerve to point out issues with a new edition of D&D:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/lotus-crane-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning.887401/

Really, Dawgstar. Stop pretending 4E wasn't a mess.

Q99 tosses a warning and threadban for... talking bad about another dev in the John Wick thread.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mae69-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.887409/

The cynical part of me wonders who it was and if they have friends on TBP staff.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on September 28, 2021, 08:32:37 AM
Getting back on track here.

Dawgstar denies reality, warns someone for having the nerve to point out issues with a new edition of D&D:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/lotus-crane-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning.887401/

Really, Dawgstar. Stop pretending 4E wasn't a mess.

Q99 tosses a warning and threadban for... talking bad about another dev in the John Wick thread.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mae69-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.887409/

The cynical part of me wonders who it was and if they have friends on TBP staff.
First, Lotus Crane was really on point with his critique of 4E. Unfortunately, truth is no defense if it’s going to hurt someone’s feelings at TBP.

Second, there are no real friends among the mods at TBP. There are only those who are currently members of the Inner Party, and those who are not. I’m sure whoever that other designer was will soon find themselves cast out of the Inner Party. It’ll practically happen to almost all members given time.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: RandyB on September 28, 2021, 01:47:51 PM
TBP is Revolutionary Paris writ small. History repeating as farce.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 28, 2021, 02:05:38 PM
Excitable Tanka strikes again.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/lonewolf23-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-threadban.887429/

Although really Lonewolf23, you've been on TBP since 2002. Did you miss the part where the jannies stated 'listen and believe' is the only policy there?

Dawgstar continues to demonstrate a complete lack of humor or even capacity for introspection.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/solarn-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban.887437/

I guess it's against policy to talk bad about stanning now. Do they even know what the word means? Heck, I do.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: zagreus on September 29, 2021, 01:15:33 AM
I gotta say, looking at some of this stuff at TBP...

I'm fucking disgusted.

Not so much at the mods, although they are obviously petty little people.  And, this is what happens when you give some people power.  But the thing that really gets my goat is why don't people just leave, en masse.   Then the little mods would have no one to lord their little rules over.   

Just goes to show, most people are sheep... unfortunately...
 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on September 29, 2021, 08:31:00 AM
Quote
Wokeness, loserness, and typical hive mentality you’ll find on Reddit. Same perps from geek in some occasions. If you defy their logic then you get the ban hammer. That dude from zweihander is there too, giving “advice” to beginners, forgot his name.

Daniel D. Fox was banned from RPGPub quite a long time ago for harassing other board members in priv messages.
I must say from my lecture of Pub it's seems to quite clearly hold up to it's premise of game only site, at least way better than any other boards I've read.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Anomalous on September 29, 2021, 10:08:43 AM
Since the wokelist was such a resounding success can we make a new list of woke idiot moderators so we can instaban them if they join any of our platforms?

Like, I am NOT giving any of them a pass for this petty behaviour.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: ThatChrisGuy on September 29, 2021, 10:30:25 AM
Since the wokelist was such a resounding success can we make a new list of woke idiot moderators so we can instaban them if they join any of our platforms?

Like, I am NOT giving any of them a pass for this petty behaviour.

No need, they'll behave in such an obnoxious manner that they'll be banned organically within a few posts.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 29, 2021, 10:55:22 AM
It's a lot trickier to track such bad actors preemptively. Unless they have a very characteristic posting style (Matt Swain here was a good example), chances are good they'll change their handles.

Then they work to slither into positions of power. It wouldn't work here, since the only positions here are held by Brett and Pundit. But that's usually what happens.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Anomalous on September 29, 2021, 12:18:33 PM
I dunno, we put them on the green list of "tolerant moderators" and they'll fall over themselves to correct the listing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on September 29, 2021, 01:26:17 PM
The mistake is not to include woke people in forums or games. The mistake comes when people take them too seriously and let them run things. Time and again, I've seen people basically go "oh you seem to care so much about all these various groups of people, so I'll let you organize this place".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 01, 2021, 11:48:31 AM
Here come the mods again, spamming out their bans like they're paid for it.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/carden_gixoth-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-0-bad-fit-for-the-forums.887582/

Not really sure what to make of this one. I cannot even swear that this isn't a burner account. I'm just bemused as to how this is so 'offensive' the mods decided to hide it behind a spoiler block. Other than 'yeah, there's good and evil in D&D, deal with it'.

Meanwhile, Avaia managed to rack up a double on threadbans.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/avaia-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.887575/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/avaia-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.887580/

Dawgstar, you are a monumental bundle of sticks and are rapidly approaching Tanka levels of asshole. But it's well established that only the mods get to snark at posters; posters are not allowed to snark or be funny (or even TRY to be funny) on TBP.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on October 01, 2021, 12:23:09 PM
What a shitshow that place is.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on October 01, 2021, 05:01:39 PM
Here come the mods again, spamming out their bans like they're paid for it.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/carden_gixoth-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-0-bad-fit-for-the-forums.887582/

Not really sure what to make of this one. I cannot even swear that this isn't a burner account. I'm just bemused as to how this is so 'offensive' the mods decided to hide it behind a spoiler block. Other than 'yeah, there's good and evil in D&D, deal with it'.

This is so good, saving here for awesomeness

Quote from: Carden_Gixoth
Sorry to necro this thread 8 and some odd years later, but my gods. Never have I heard such drivel as came from OP's post.

The only thing "Christian" about D&D is that there is a Heaven (The 7 Mountain Heavens of Mt. Celestia) and a Hell (The Nine Hells). But, that's not a Christianity only thing. Jewdiasm, Islam, hells, even Buddhism has a Heaven and Hell.

I guess you can consider Ao God/Jesus, and Asmodeus Satan, but that's really, really stretching it. And you'd have to admit that Ao being "God" and Asmodeus being "Satan" also fits Jewish, and Islamic beliefs. It's not just Christianity that does this.

Further more, not only does Alignment mean eff all in 5e (my examples are the Detect Evil and Good, and Protection from Evil and Good spells. They don't Detect/Protect from an alignment, they do so for specific creature types. Using Detect Evil and Good, RAW, will not tell you if the sketchy Baron is Evil or not.), but in D&D morality is objective, as it is in Christianity, sure. But it's also objective in all modern religions. This started with the Jews, as the ancient Gods... Well, let's look at them.

Norse Myth is "Might is Right". The strong decide what is the objectively good thing, the weak die, or deal with it.

Greek/Roman myth can be summed up as "The Gods are flawed like us, and we suffer for it because the Gods are fickle".

Objective "this is good, this is evil, no matter if you're a king or a slave" morality started with the Jews.

So, you're wrong on it being a "Christian thing", OP.

Secondly, the Gods are either Evil or Good. Shar is Evil, Pelor is Good. Etc. Some are neutral, embodying aspects like Law, which can be both good or evil, depending. Having a "Slavery is ok here" law, I think we would all agree is objectively amoral. Evil. But, it's a Law. Disregarding that Law, in game, or IRL is a Chaotic Good action.

Evil, in D&D is Unholy. All demons, devil's, other assorted Fiends, the Devil Lord's of the Nine Hells, Demon Lord's of the Abyss, and Evil Gods (Asmodeus, Shar, Lolth, Myrkul, Jergal, etc.) are Unholy powers.

Good Deities (Pelor, Bahamut, Lathander, Paladine, Sahanine Moonbow, Corellon Larethian, etc), Angels and other assorted Celestials are Holy Powers.

There are Neutral (on the Good-Evil axis) Gods like Hoar, Helm, Primus, Torm and Tyr (I think Tyr is Neutral. Might be wrong on that. Correct me if so). These deities stand for a concept that can't be put into Good or Evil.

Neutral Clerics (in 3.5e) of Neutral Gods can choose to channel Holy or Unholy powers depending on their choice, and interpretation Of their Gods' teachings.

I'm sorry "demons bad, angels good" and "murder bad" doesn't sit right with you, OP, but too bad.

Slavery, rape, murder, and theft are objectively evil things.

There are Gods that venerate one or more of these. There are races, and subsets of races, that venerate these things. Kobolds, Drow, Mountain Orcs for instance.

Bad thing in D&D = Evil

Good thing in D&D = Good.

Period. Don't like it? Run your table how you want, or just don't play. Your choice on which you use. But do not presume to force your ill-conceived, flawed, and frankly misinformed bullshit on the rest of us.


All of that being said, I genuinely do not hold any I'll will toward OP, just minor annoyance.

Once more, mods/admins, I apologize for necro-ing this long dead thread, I simply could not let such blantanly incorrect information sit and do nothing to attempt to rectify it. I'll gladly take whatever strike/warning I get. All I ask is this post not be removed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 01, 2021, 08:49:35 PM
Here come the mods again, spamming out their bans like they're paid for it.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/carden_gixoth-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-0-bad-fit-for-the-forums.887582/

Not really sure what to make of this one. I cannot even swear that this isn't a burner account. I'm just bemused as to how this is so 'offensive' the mods decided to hide it behind a spoiler block. Other than 'yeah, there's good and evil in D&D, deal with it'.

This is so good, saving here for awesomeness

Quote from: Carden_Gixoth
Sorry to necro this thread 8 and some odd years later, but my gods. Never have I heard such drivel as came from OP's post.

The only thing "Christian" about D&D is that there is a Heaven (The 7 Mountain Heavens of Mt. Celestia) and a Hell (The Nine Hells). But, that's not a Christianity only thing. Jewdiasm, Islam, hells, even Buddhism has a Heaven and Hell.

I guess you can consider Ao God/Jesus, and Asmodeus Satan, but that's really, really stretching it. And you'd have to admit that Ao being "God" and Asmodeus being "Satan" also fits Jewish, and Islamic beliefs. It's not just Christianity that does this.

Further more, not only does Alignment mean eff all in 5e (my examples are the Detect Evil and Good, and Protection from Evil and Good spells. They don't Detect/Protect from an alignment, they do so for specific creature types. Using Detect Evil and Good, RAW, will not tell you if the sketchy Baron is Evil or not.), but in D&D morality is objective, as it is in Christianity, sure. But it's also objective in all modern religions. This started with the Jews, as the ancient Gods... Well, let's look at them.

Norse Myth is "Might is Right". The strong decide what is the objectively good thing, the weak die, or deal with it.

Greek/Roman myth can be summed up as "The Gods are flawed like us, and we suffer for it because the Gods are fickle".

Objective "this is good, this is evil, no matter if you're a king or a slave" morality started with the Jews.

So, you're wrong on it being a "Christian thing", OP.

Secondly, the Gods are either Evil or Good. Shar is Evil, Pelor is Good. Etc. Some are neutral, embodying aspects like Law, which can be both good or evil, depending. Having a "Slavery is ok here" law, I think we would all agree is objectively amoral. Evil. But, it's a Law. Disregarding that Law, in game, or IRL is a Chaotic Good action.

Evil, in D&D is Unholy. All demons, devil's, other assorted Fiends, the Devil Lord's of the Nine Hells, Demon Lord's of the Abyss, and Evil Gods (Asmodeus, Shar, Lolth, Myrkul, Jergal, etc.) are Unholy powers.

Good Deities (Pelor, Bahamut, Lathander, Paladine, Sahanine Moonbow, Corellon Larethian, etc), Angels and other assorted Celestials are Holy Powers.

There are Neutral (on the Good-Evil axis) Gods like Hoar, Helm, Primus, Torm and Tyr (I think Tyr is Neutral. Might be wrong on that. Correct me if so). These deities stand for a concept that can't be put into Good or Evil.

Neutral Clerics (in 3.5e) of Neutral Gods can choose to channel Holy or Unholy powers depending on their choice, and interpretation Of their Gods' teachings.

I'm sorry "demons bad, angels good" and "murder bad" doesn't sit right with you, OP, but too bad.

Slavery, rape, murder, and theft are objectively evil things.

There are Gods that venerate one or more of these. There are races, and subsets of races, that venerate these things. Kobolds, Drow, Mountain Orcs for instance.

Bad thing in D&D = Evil

Good thing in D&D = Good.

Period. Don't like it? Run your table how you want, or just don't play. Your choice on which you use. But do not presume to force your ill-conceived, flawed, and frankly misinformed bullshit on the rest of us.


All of that being said, I genuinely do not hold any I'll will toward OP, just minor annoyance.

Once more, mods/admins, I apologize for necro-ing this long dead thread, I simply could not let such blantanly incorrect information sit and do nothing to attempt to rectify it. I'll gladly take whatever strike/warning I get. All I ask is this post not be removed.

50/50 odds the moderators nuke his post because he asked that it not be nuked.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on October 01, 2021, 09:15:07 PM
50/50 odds the moderators nuke his post because he asked that it not be nuked.

I figured it was because he said that a Good thing in D&D = Good.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: soundchaser on October 01, 2021, 11:27:21 PM
The alignment segment would possibly warrant a ban from the relativists. If TBP moderators let something said like a claim “objectively true” on Good/Evil, such could undermine their will-to-power.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on October 02, 2021, 08:08:57 AM
I'm on the verge about this one. What was the need to necro an 8 years old thread? Just open a new one and say your piece.

I think that necroing a decade old thread would be basis for a warning even here, too, if you don't have a good reason to do it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on October 02, 2021, 04:59:20 PM
Is there something inherently wrong with necroing a thread?

I always viewed it as a legitimate school of magic.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on October 02, 2021, 07:47:31 PM
Necromancy is inherently evil magic, if your name is Wreck-All, or you're big and purple.

For everyone else, it's just a discussion with people who might not be there anymore.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kyle Aaron on October 02, 2021, 08:58:35 PM
One thing I always found amusing about Talmud was that it's basically guys who died 800 years ago arguing with guys who died 1,200 years ago.

I don't see why rpg discussions should be any different.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on October 02, 2021, 10:40:04 PM
Is there something inherently wrong with necroing a thread?

IMHO, you are bringing back a thread whose contents and context are mostly forgotten, with a lot of the original posters who, by now, moved on and can't even answer.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on October 02, 2021, 10:49:19 PM
Is there something inherently wrong with necroing a thread?

IMHO, you are bringing back a thread whose contents and context are mostly forgotten, with a lot of the original posters who, by now, moved on and can't even answer.
So?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on October 03, 2021, 07:03:44 AM
Is there something inherently wrong with necroing a thread?

IMHO, you are bringing back a thread whose contents and context are mostly forgotten, with a lot of the original posters who, by now, moved on and can't even answer.
So?

So, you are bringing back a thread whose contents and context are mostly forgotten, with a lot of the original posters who, by now, moved on and can't even answer.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on October 03, 2021, 09:41:44 AM
What are you talking about? This thread is new.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on October 03, 2021, 11:30:40 AM
What are you talking about? This thread is new.
Indeed. The first post is July 27, 2021… so barely two months old.

I mean, provided it had a preservative effect, I’d prefer to use fresh bodies for zombies too, but to call anything this fresh necromancy feels disingenuous.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on October 03, 2021, 11:43:28 AM
What are you talking about? This thread is new.
The person banned at TBP had necro'ed an 8 year-old thread for the post that got him banned.  So they're not talking about this thread.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on October 03, 2021, 01:36:25 PM
Oh my! Is that where all the little tyrants hangout these days?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on October 03, 2021, 03:06:24 PM
What are you talking about? This thread is new.
The person banned at TBP had necro'ed an 8 year-old thread for the post that got him banned.  So they're not talking about this thread.

Exactly. And, for once, this is not something I disagree with. "Yo! Remember when my parents were still together, you were in high-school and Ted was about to become a single dad? I just thought that...!"

Get a grip and open a new thread, unless there is a real, discernible reason to still be living in 2013.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on October 03, 2021, 04:01:01 PM
What are you talking about? This thread is new.
The person banned at TBP had necro'ed an 8 year-old thread for the post that got him banned.  So they're not talking about this thread.

Exactly. And, for once, this is not something I disagree with. "Yo! Remember when my parents were still together, you were in high-school and Ted was about to become a single dad? I just thought that...!"

Get a grip and open a new thread, unless there is a real, discernible reason to still be living in 2013.
I know, right? There should be a seven year moratorium on bringing up old things. Books written prior to 2014? Burn 'em!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on October 03, 2021, 04:21:32 PM
Is there something inherently wrong with necroing a thread?

IMHO, you are bringing back a thread whose contents and context are mostly forgotten, with a lot of the original posters who, by now, moved on and can't even answer.

I see you prefer to have multiple threads all talking about the same topic rather then having a single thread.

On the other hand I can not see any inherent value in respecting any particular posters ability to post or not.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on October 03, 2021, 05:14:50 PM
What are you talking about? This thread is new.
The person banned at TBP had necro'ed an 8 year-old thread for the post that got him banned.  So they're not talking about this thread.

Exactly. And, for once, this is not something I disagree with. "Yo! Remember when my parents were still together, you were in high-school and Ted was about to become a single dad? I just thought that...!"

Get a grip and open a new thread, unless there is a real, discernible reason to still be living in 2013.
I know, right? There should be a seven year moratorium on bringing up old things. Books written prior to 2014? Burn 'em!

A thread is not a book: it is something where many people interact, talking about things whose context could have been implicit at the time but not today, and when things had different values (how many debates about The Forge we see today?) It was something clear in the minds of the posters when it was still alive, but very possibly today you have to re-read everything to remember contents and context. Not to mention how many of the people posting on that thread can be no more around today.

If really a thread started during the XXIII Dynasty can become relevant again today just say so. "I stumbled into an old thread and I think that this part (insert here) is very relevant to the current debate because..." and then say your piece. Almost all forums I post in have rules against "necroing" - and for a reason.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Alathon on October 03, 2021, 07:05:17 PM
I know, right? There should be a seven year moratorium on bringing up old things. Books written prior to 2014? Burn 'em!

A thread is not a book: it is something where many people interact, talking about things whose context could have been implicit at the time but not today, and when things had different values (how many debates about The Forge we see today?) It was something clear in the minds of the posters when it was still alive, but very possibly today you have to re-read everything to remember contents and context. Not to mention how many of the people posting on that thread can be no more around today.

If really a thread started during the XXIII Dynasty can become relevant again today just say so. "I stumbled into an old thread and I think that this part (insert here) is very relevant to the current debate because..." and then say your piece. Almost all forums I post in have rules against "necroing" - and for a reason.

The question is whether their reasons are good.  On many forums it is strictly a matter of mass annoyance, of someone bringing back a story or RP or whatever that is long dead and getting a bunch of people hyped for nothing.  I find this to be a big fat 'whatever', I understand the annoyance but do not account it worthy of punishment.

For the matter of context, the thread itself should provide most of that, and the dates on the posts the rest.

For the matter of participants being long-gone, that is not a real problem.  If they are gone, what interest can they be said to have in the doings of a forum they have left?  I understand the concern, in the first moment when I consider someone talking shit about me on a forum I no longer participate on, I have an urge to either stand for what I said or at least acknowledge an error so I cannot be thought to still be in error today.  But, that's silly, the sensible thing is to let it go.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on October 03, 2021, 07:52:35 PM
What are you talking about? This thread is new.
The person banned at TBP had necro'ed an 8 year-old thread for the post that got him banned.  So they're not talking about this thread.

Exactly. And, for once, this is not something I disagree with. "Yo! Remember when my parents were still together, you were in high-school and Ted was about to become a single dad? I just thought that...!"

Get a grip and open a new thread, unless there is a real, discernible reason to still be living in 2013.
I know, right? There should be a seven year moratorium on bringing up old things. Books written prior to 2014? Burn 'em!

A thread is not a book: it is something where many people interact, talking about things whose context could have been implicit at the time but not today, and when things had different values (how many debates about The Forge we see today?) It was something clear in the minds of the posters when it was still alive, but very possibly today you have to re-read everything to remember contents and context. Not to mention how many of the people posting on that thread can be no more around today.

If really a thread started during the XXIII Dynasty can become relevant again today just say so. "I stumbled into an old thread and I think that this part (insert here) is very relevant to the current debate because..." and then say your piece. Almost all forums I post in have rules against "necroing" - and for a reason.
Books are how we interact with people from thousands of years ago, who are "no more around today".

You're making an irrational and silly distinction.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on October 03, 2021, 08:05:57 PM
I'm surprised that TBP doesn't delete old threads seeing as how everything posted over a year or two is probably not woke enough.
 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on October 03, 2021, 08:23:23 PM
I'm surprised that TBP doesn't delete old threads seeing as how everything posted over a year or two is probably not woke enough.
But they need the old stuff to dog up bans when the current sheep are too complianr.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 04, 2021, 08:08:42 AM
I'm surprised that TBP doesn't delete old threads seeing as how everything posted over a year or two is probably not woke enough.
They've picked off all the 'problematic' types anyways from those old posts. Now it'll be purity spiral cycles with a side of 'caught you posting nonwoke, now we warn/ban you!'.

I can't help but feel some sadness here. I've seen a number of interesting threads in Tabletop Open. But as soon as a mod rolls in throwing red text, it seems to knock the wind out of the sails of the posters.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on October 04, 2021, 08:47:55 AM
I'm surprised that TBP doesn't delete old threads seeing as how everything posted over a year or two is probably not woke enough.
They've picked off all the 'problematic' types anyways from those old posts. Now it'll be purity spiral cycles with a side of 'caught you posting nonwoke, now we warn/ban you!'.

I can't help but feel some sadness here. I've seen a number of interesting threads in Tabletop Open. But as soon as a mod rolls in throwing red text, it seems to knock the wind out of the sails of the posters.
"Problematic" isn't a fixed line in the sand. It's an ever-rising tide, that will eventually engulf everything.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on October 04, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
What are you talking about? This thread is new.
The person banned at TBP had necro'ed an 8 year-old thread for the post that got him banned.  So they're not talking about this thread.

Exactly. And, for once, this is not something I disagree with. "Yo! Remember when my parents were still together, you were in high-school and Ted was about to become a single dad? I just thought that...!"

Get a grip and open a new thread, unless there is a real, discernible reason to still be living in 2013.
I know, right? There should be a seven year moratorium on bringing up old things. Books written prior to 2014? Burn 'em!

A thread is not a book: it is something where many people interact, talking about things whose context could have been implicit at the time but not today, and when things had different values (how many debates about The Forge we see today?) It was something clear in the minds of the posters when it was still alive, but very possibly today you have to re-read everything to remember contents and context. Not to mention how many of the people posting on that thread can be no more around today.

If really a thread started during the XXIII Dynasty can become relevant again today just say so. "I stumbled into an old thread and I think that this part (insert here) is very relevant to the current debate because..." and then say your piece. Almost all forums I post in have rules against "necroing" - and for a reason.
Books are how we interact with people from thousands of years ago, who are "no more around today".

Exactly. Books, not forum threads.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on October 04, 2021, 10:21:31 AM
What are you talking about? This thread is new.
The person banned at TBP had necro'ed an 8 year-old thread for the post that got him banned.  So they're not talking about this thread.

Exactly. And, for once, this is not something I disagree with. "Yo! Remember when my parents were still together, you were in high-school and Ted was about to become a single dad? I just thought that...!"

Get a grip and open a new thread, unless there is a real, discernible reason to still be living in 2013.
I know, right? There should be a seven year moratorium on bringing up old things. Books written prior to 2014? Burn 'em!

A thread is not a book: it is something where many people interact, talking about things whose context could have been implicit at the time but not today, and when things had different values (how many debates about The Forge we see today?) It was something clear in the minds of the posters when it was still alive, but very possibly today you have to re-read everything to remember contents and context. Not to mention how many of the people posting on that thread can be no more around today.

If really a thread started during the XXIII Dynasty can become relevant again today just say so. "I stumbled into an old thread and I think that this part (insert here) is very relevant to the current debate because..." and then say your piece. Almost all forums I post in have rules against "necroing" - and for a reason.
Books are how we interact with people from thousands of years ago, who are "no more around today".

Exactly. Books, not forum threads.

A man’s not dead while his name is still spoken.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on October 04, 2021, 10:22:44 AM
What are you talking about? This thread is new.
The person banned at TBP had necro'ed an 8 year-old thread for the post that got him banned.  So they're not talking about this thread.

Exactly. And, for once, this is not something I disagree with. "Yo! Remember when my parents were still together, you were in high-school and Ted was about to become a single dad? I just thought that...!"

Get a grip and open a new thread, unless there is a real, discernible reason to still be living in 2013.
I know, right? There should be a seven year moratorium on bringing up old things. Books written prior to 2014? Burn 'em!

A thread is not a book: it is something where many people interact, talking about things whose context could have been implicit at the time but not today, and when things had different values (how many debates about The Forge we see today?) It was something clear in the minds of the posters when it was still alive, but very possibly today you have to re-read everything to remember contents and context. Not to mention how many of the people posting on that thread can be no more around today.

If really a thread started during the XXIII Dynasty can become relevant again today just say so. "I stumbled into an old thread and I think that this part (insert here) is very relevant to the current debate because..." and then say your piece. Almost all forums I post in have rules against "necroing" - and for a reason.
Books are how we interact with people from thousands of years ago, who are "no more around today".

Exactly. Books, not forum threads.
Try to explain how that makes a difference. Should be entertaining.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on October 04, 2021, 12:08:30 PM
What are you talking about? This thread is new.
The person banned at TBP had necro'ed an 8 year-old thread for the post that got him banned.  So they're not talking about this thread.

Exactly. And, for once, this is not something I disagree with. "Yo! Remember when my parents were still together, you were in high-school and Ted was about to become a single dad? I just thought that...!"

Get a grip and open a new thread, unless there is a real, discernible reason to still be living in 2013.
I know, right? There should be a seven year moratorium on bringing up old things. Books written prior to 2014? Burn 'em!

A thread is not a book: it is something where many people interact, talking about things whose context could have been implicit at the time but not today, and when things had different values (how many debates about The Forge we see today?) It was something clear in the minds of the posters when it was still alive, but very possibly today you have to re-read everything to remember contents and context. Not to mention how many of the people posting on that thread can be no more around today.

If really a thread started during the XXIII Dynasty can become relevant again today just say so. "I stumbled into an old thread and I think that this part (insert here) is very relevant to the current debate because..." and then say your piece. Almost all forums I post in have rules against "necroing" - and for a reason.
Books are how we interact with people from thousands of years ago, who are "no more around today".

Exactly. Books, not forum threads.
Try to explain how that makes a difference. Should be entertaining.

I can throw in for free the difference between an apple and a 2021 Audi A8 if you want. Interested?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on October 04, 2021, 12:20:18 PM
What are you talking about? This thread is new.
The person banned at TBP had necro'ed an 8 year-old thread for the post that got him banned.  So they're not talking about this thread.

Exactly. And, for once, this is not something I disagree with. "Yo! Remember when my parents were still together, you were in high-school and Ted was about to become a single dad? I just thought that...!"

Get a grip and open a new thread, unless there is a real, discernible reason to still be living in 2013.
I know, right? There should be a seven year moratorium on bringing up old things. Books written prior to 2014? Burn 'em!

A thread is not a book: it is something where many people interact, talking about things whose context could have been implicit at the time but not today, and when things had different values (how many debates about The Forge we see today?) It was something clear in the minds of the posters when it was still alive, but very possibly today you have to re-read everything to remember contents and context. Not to mention how many of the people posting on that thread can be no more around today.

If really a thread started during the XXIII Dynasty can become relevant again today just say so. "I stumbled into an old thread and I think that this part (insert here) is very relevant to the current debate because..." and then say your piece. Almost all forums I post in have rules against "necroing" - and for a reason.
Books are how we interact with people from thousands of years ago, who are "no more around today".

Exactly. Books, not forum threads.
Try to explain how that makes a difference. Should be entertaining.

I can throw in for free the difference between an apple and a 2021 Audi A8 if you want. Interested?
Are they both red?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on October 04, 2021, 12:47:44 PM
What are you talking about? This thread is new.
The person banned at TBP had necro'ed an 8 year-old thread for the post that got him banned.  So they're not talking about this thread.

Exactly. And, for once, this is not something I disagree with. "Yo! Remember when my parents were still together, you were in high-school and Ted was about to become a single dad? I just thought that...!"

Get a grip and open a new thread, unless there is a real, discernible reason to still be living in 2013.
I know, right? There should be a seven year moratorium on bringing up old things. Books written prior to 2014? Burn 'em!

A thread is not a book: it is something where many people interact, talking about things whose context could have been implicit at the time but not today, and when things had different values (how many debates about The Forge we see today?) It was something clear in the minds of the posters when it was still alive, but very possibly today you have to re-read everything to remember contents and context. Not to mention how many of the people posting on that thread can be no more around today.

If really a thread started during the XXIII Dynasty can become relevant again today just say so. "I stumbled into an old thread and I think that this part (insert here) is very relevant to the current debate because..." and then say your piece. Almost all forums I post in have rules against "necroing" - and for a reason.
Books are how we interact with people from thousands of years ago, who are "no more around today".

Exactly. Books, not forum threads.
Try to explain how that makes a difference. Should be entertaining.

I can throw in for free the difference between an apple and a 2021 Audi A8 if you want. Interested?
Are they both red?

No.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on October 04, 2021, 12:49:05 PM
What are you talking about? This thread is new.
The person banned at TBP had necro'ed an 8 year-old thread for the post that got him banned.  So they're not talking about this thread.

Exactly. And, for once, this is not something I disagree with. "Yo! Remember when my parents were still together, you were in high-school and Ted was about to become a single dad? I just thought that...!"

Get a grip and open a new thread, unless there is a real, discernible reason to still be living in 2013.
I know, right? There should be a seven year moratorium on bringing up old things. Books written prior to 2014? Burn 'em!

A thread is not a book: it is something where many people interact, talking about things whose context could have been implicit at the time but not today, and when things had different values (how many debates about The Forge we see today?) It was something clear in the minds of the posters when it was still alive, but very possibly today you have to re-read everything to remember contents and context. Not to mention how many of the people posting on that thread can be no more around today.

If really a thread started during the XXIII Dynasty can become relevant again today just say so. "I stumbled into an old thread and I think that this part (insert here) is very relevant to the current debate because..." and then say your piece. Almost all forums I post in have rules against "necroing" - and for a reason.
Books are how we interact with people from thousands of years ago, who are "no more around today".

Exactly. Books, not forum threads.
Try to explain how that makes a difference. Should be entertaining.

I can throw in for free the difference between an apple and a 2021 Audi A8 if you want. Interested?
Are they both red?

No.
Much less interested now. Let me know when you get the red ones.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on October 04, 2021, 04:30:24 PM
Instead of banning thread resurrection they should ban excessive quote threads.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on October 04, 2021, 05:09:40 PM
What are you talking about? This thread is new.
The person banned at TBP had necro'ed an 8 year-old thread for the post that got him banned.  So they're not talking about this thread.

Exactly. And, for once, this is not something I disagree with. "Yo! Remember when my parents were still together, you were in high-school and Ted was about to become a single dad? I just thought that...!"

Get a grip and open a new thread, unless there is a real, discernible reason to still be living in 2013.
I know, right? There should be a seven year moratorium on bringing up old things. Books written prior to 2014? Burn 'em!

A thread is not a book: it is something where many people interact, talking about things whose context could have been implicit at the time but not today, and when things had different values (how many debates about The Forge we see today?) It was something clear in the minds of the posters when it was still alive, but very possibly today you have to re-read everything to remember contents and context. Not to mention how many of the people posting on that thread can be no more around today.

If really a thread started during the XXIII Dynasty can become relevant again today just say so. "I stumbled into an old thread and I think that this part (insert here) is very relevant to the current debate because..." and then say your piece. Almost all forums I post in have rules against "necroing" - and for a reason.
Books are how we interact with people from thousands of years ago, who are "no more around today".

Exactly. Books, not forum threads.
Try to explain how that makes a difference. Should be entertaining.

I can throw in for free the difference between an apple and a 2021 Audi A8 if you want. Interested?
Do they different in significant ways that are relevant to this conversation, or is it as spurious your claim that thread necromancy is some horrible crime?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on October 04, 2021, 05:54:23 PM
I can throw in for free the difference between an apple and a 2021 Audi A8 if you want. Interested?
Do they different in significant ways that are relevant to this conversation, or is it as spurious your claim that thread necromancy is some horrible crime?
[/quote]

If I were you I would check my wires - because by now they are irremediably crossed. 😂
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on October 04, 2021, 09:08:25 PM
On the positive side, at least the quoting format on this forum seems to discourage top posting
which is probably more annoying.  8)
Instead of banning thread resurrection they should ban excessive quote threads.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on October 04, 2021, 10:21:21 PM
Quote from: Reckall
I can throw in for free the difference between an apple and a 2021 Audi A8 if you want. Interested?
Do they different in significant ways that are relevant to this conversation, or is it as spurious your claim that thread necromancy is some horrible crime?

If I were you I would check my wires - because by now they are irremediably crossed. 😂
You should ban all those wires from 2013.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on October 04, 2021, 10:21:57 PM
Could be worse it could be top posting excessive quote thread

On the positive side, at least the quoting format on this forum seems to discourage top posting
which is probably more annoying.  8)
Instead of banning thread resurrection they should ban excessive quote threads.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on October 04, 2021, 10:27:28 PM
You're triggering my email PTSD.
Could be worse it could be top posting excessive quote thread

On the positive side, at least the quoting format on this forum seems to discourage top posting
which is probably more annoying.  8)
Instead of banning thread resurrection they should ban excessive quote threads.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on October 04, 2021, 11:22:43 PM
Once the quote pyramid is tall enough, we can make a sacrifice to the Sun God, right?
You're triggering my email PTSD.
Could be worse it could be top posting excessive quote thread

On the positive side, at least the quoting format on this forum seems to discourage top posting
which is probably more annoying.  8)
Instead of banning thread resurrection they should ban excessive quote threads.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on October 04, 2021, 11:34:19 PM
What have I done?  I am just making it worse!

Once the quote pyramid is tall enough, we can make a sacrifice to the Sun God, right?
You're triggering my email PTSD.
Could be worse it could be top posting excessive quote thread

On the positive side, at least the quoting format on this forum seems to discourage top posting
which is probably more annoying.  8)
Instead of banning thread resurrection they should ban excessive quote threads.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on October 05, 2021, 12:32:08 AM
We can also bury a Pharoah underneath it. Next poster volunteers....
What have I done?  I am just making it worse!

Once the quote pyramid is tall enough, we can make a sacrifice to the Sun God, right?
You're triggering my email PTSD.
Could be worse it could be top posting excessive quote thread

On the positive side, at least the quoting format on this forum seems to discourage top posting
which is probably more annoying.  8)
Instead of banning thread resurrection they should ban excessive quote threads.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KingCheops on October 05, 2021, 10:47:02 AM
We can also bury a Pharoah underneath it. Next poster volunteers....
What have I done?  I am just making it worse!

Once the quote pyramid is tall enough, we can make a sacrifice to the Sun God, right?
You're triggering my email PTSD.
Could be worse it could be top posting excessive quote thread

On the positive side, at least the quoting format on this forum seems to discourage top posting
which is probably more annoying.  8)
Instead of banning thread resurrection they should ban excessive quote threads.

I feel this is appropriate on multiple levels.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 05, 2021, 11:03:25 AM
You people and your fancy-pants pyramid building...

Jokes aside, huh. TBP hasn't banned anyone since that one guy on Friday. Not even warnings.

I stand by my assertion: they've driven off or banned everyone who might espouse a differing opinion. Now it's on to the inevitable struggle sessions and purity spirals, though it'll probably take longer. Still, proof is in the pudding: has anyone seen them break 250 registered users online?

'Cause I sure haven't.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on October 05, 2021, 01:20:51 PM
You people and your fancy-pants pyramid building...

Jokes aside, huh. TBP hasn't banned anyone since that one guy on Friday. Not even warnings.

I stand by my assertion: they've driven off or banned everyone who might espouse a differing opinion. Now it's on to the inevitable struggle sessions and purity spirals, though it'll probably take longer. Still, proof is in the pudding: has anyone seen them break 250 registered users online?

'Cause I sure haven't.

They did hit 250 this friday or saturday when it was late afternoon in the US and late evening in Europe. It needs both continents users during their peak hours to barely break it.

edit: just checked. 259 exactly this minute of posting this.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 06, 2021, 09:07:22 AM
Welcome back to another edition of 'fantasy racism is totes real racism, you guise!'

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/constantine-xi-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-thread-ban.887787/

Constantine is absolutely right, of course. But you can't SAY that because (a) it might affect WotC's bottom line if people realize they're shit, and (b) it makes someone have the sad feels.

How did the line go? We're going to wind up playing grey blobs, wandering around with other grey blobs, and not actually fighting anything?

I'm so, so sorely tempted to slap together a burner account, and start arguing for better treatment of otyughs in game settings there.

EDIT: Holy shit.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ikoma-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban.887794/

How Ikoma didn't eat a full on permaban is beyond me. Q99 (and presumably the other mods) completely missed the point they were making -- that promoting sippenhaft, blood guilt, is a very, very bad idea. And that no matter how you slice it, trying to push reparations for people who are LONG dead (they trot out some folks of a more recent vintage -- but the argument about reparations is about slavery, not segregation) is stupid and asking for trouble.

If I was Ikoma, I wouldn't go back. That snotty 'educate yourself' really is the cherry on the shit sundae.

But hey, TBP mods support ancestral guilt confirmed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on October 06, 2021, 11:37:03 AM
Welcome back to another edition of 'fantasy racism is totes real racism, you guise!'

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/constantine-xi-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-thread-ban.887787/

Constantine is absolutely right, of course. But you can't SAY that because (a) it might affect WotC's bottom line if people realize they're shit, and (b) it makes someone have the sad feels.

How did the line go? We're going to wind up playing grey blobs, wandering around with other grey blobs, and not actually fighting anything?

I'm so, so sorely tempted to slap together a burner account, and start arguing for better treatment of otyughs in game settings there.

You could, but the True Believers there have already gone past that to demand that demons and devils shouldn’t be usually evil.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 06, 2021, 11:39:49 AM
Welcome back to another edition of 'fantasy racism is totes real racism, you guise!'

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/constantine-xi-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-thread-ban.887787/

Constantine is absolutely right, of course. But you can't SAY that because (a) it might affect WotC's bottom line if people realize they're shit, and (b) it makes someone have the sad feels.

How did the line go? We're going to wind up playing grey blobs, wandering around with other grey blobs, and not actually fighting anything?

I'm so, so sorely tempted to slap together a burner account, and start arguing for better treatment of otyughs in game settings there.

You could, but the True Believers there have already gone past that to demand that demons and devils shouldn’t be usually evil.
Quite true.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 06, 2021, 01:03:42 PM
They handed out 6 infractions in less than 2.5 hours. I think the mods must have had a meeting/pep rally early this morning before going forth to find posters to punish.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on October 06, 2021, 03:32:35 PM

  They banned Deepthaw under Rule 0 without even linking to the offending post ... probably because it hit too close to home. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/pathfinder-2e-kingmaker-and-colonialism-imperialism.886867/post-24078229)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 06, 2021, 03:36:42 PM

  They banned Deepthaw under Rule 0 without even linking to the offending post ... probably because it hit too close to home. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/pathfinder-2e-kingmaker-and-colonialism-imperialism.886867/post-24078229)
Wow. Damn.

For those who don't care to visit TBP, I reproduce his finale:
Quote
There is no forum in which this kind of moderation is acceptable.

The forum rules appear to be:
You will agree with us on a litany of political-social issues.
If you do not agree sufficiently, you will have ill motives ascribed to you.
You will receive disciplinary action for these ill motives and it is against the rules of the forum to reply to these actions in public, even though the disciplinary actions themselves are public.
The beliefs of the moderation team are sacrosanct and they will win all discussions by default by being able to literally have the last word on anything they wish, and they will do this frequently.
Anyone who finds this to be an abusive or dishonest way to interact with users is morally inferior and probably a racist and not a good fit.
The person never said "There's a wrong here, what are you gonna do? Genocide? No? Then do nothing!" they pointed out why addressing the wrongs of colonialism in the real world has proven so challenging.

Looking through past infraction reports, it has become abundantly clear that putting words in the mouths of users, claiming a stock fallacy that offends a series of rules increasingly more concerned with thought-policing people's beliefs than running a forum for RPGs, and then punishing them for the words you put in their mouth - and not allowing them to defend themselves publicly is simply standard operating procedure for this place. It's one long, escalating purity test.

This raises a number of red flags, and I'm afraid I can no longer visit this place under my personal rule 0 - you're clearly not a good fit for me. I'm giving RPG.net a lifetime ban for ceaseless thought-policing and virtue signaling through armband activism. It's disappointing because I am actually very heavily aligned with the politics of this place. It's the intellectually dishonest way in which it is wielded as a weapon to stifle discussion that bothers me so much.

I'll be back in the real world where I work with actual marginalized and disadvantaged peoples of diverse backgrounds on a daily basis, in person no less, while reeling from the actual damage places like this cause by painting progressive activism in the very worst possible light.

Sincerely, an individual who volunteered twice for Bernie Sanders' campaigns, got physically hauled out of a Trump rally by secret service, is a vocal advocate for diversity-based hiring practices with their employer, has attended multiple LGBTQ+ support rallies (in person), physically visited trans friends and to show support after hate crimes were committed against them, loudly argued against discriminatory legislation before city council, and serves with local advocacy groups for child and adults with special needs but still isn't fucking woke enough for the tin-pot dictators running this place into the ground.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on October 06, 2021, 04:10:45 PM

  They banned Deepthaw under Rule 0 without even linking to the offending post ... probably because it hit too close to home. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/pathfinder-2e-kingmaker-and-colonialism-imperialism.886867/post-24078229)

Holy shitake mushroom. I am impressed with Deepthaw. Wow
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on October 06, 2021, 04:12:02 PM
Wow even the crazies are starting to see the craziness.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on October 06, 2021, 04:14:40 PM
Well TBH RPG.net admins behaviour definitely can be considered abusive and authoritarian to the level that should ESPECIALLY bother honest leftists.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on October 06, 2021, 04:22:05 PM
They banned Deepthaw under Rule 0 without even linking to the offending post ... probably because it hit too close to home. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/pathfinder-2e-kingmaker-and-colonialism-imperialism.886867/post-24078229)
Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark. I wonder if the author will come to realize that a large portion of the political "right" is made up of classical liberals like him who weren't pure enough for today's zealotry. Maybe being un-personed like this will be the wake-up call he needs.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KingCheops on October 06, 2021, 05:09:19 PM
Why do all these woketards always have so much drama and bad stuff happen to them?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on October 06, 2021, 05:53:25 PM
Why do all these woketards always have so much drama and bad stuff happen to them?

I believe that is a feature.  If you accumulate enough oppression points then you get to go to heaven.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 06, 2021, 05:58:30 PM
It looks like they got all jazzed up to hand out infractions this morning, and in their zealotry they got so out of hand that Deep Thaw basically did a self ban. The mods couldn’t reference the offending post because getting called out like that is “just…so…much…emotional…labor” to deal with. It wouldn’t surprise me if they delete the original as well.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on October 06, 2021, 06:10:47 PM
"Rule 0" is "Because I felt like it, Fuck You! Lawl!".
Change my mind.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: ChrisFox on October 06, 2021, 06:18:40 PM

  They banned Deepthaw under Rule 0 without even linking to the offending post ... probably because it hit too close to home. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/pathfinder-2e-kingmaker-and-colonialism-imperialism.886867/post-24078229)

That might be the most epic, accurate, takedown I have ever read. Legendary. He invoked his own rule 0.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on October 06, 2021, 07:18:26 PM

  They banned Deepthaw under Rule 0 without even linking to the offending post ... probably because it hit too close to home. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/pathfinder-2e-kingmaker-and-colonialism-imperialism.886867/post-24078229)

That might be the most epic, accurate, takedown I have ever read. Legendary. He invoked his own rule 0.
And of course, "You can't quit! No one quits! You're fired! You're banned! Get out of my office!". 🤣🤣

I'll bet we're all preemptively permabanned for posting here, as one of them seethes behind zhier screen. But I'd have to make an account over there to know, and it's not worth it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on October 06, 2021, 09:15:07 PM
That might be the most epic middle finger I've ever seen lobbed at the mods of TBP. Wow.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 06, 2021, 11:57:39 PM
Quote
There is no forum in which this kind of moderation is acceptable.

The forum rules appear to be:
You will agree with us on a litany of political-social issues.
If you do not agree sufficiently, you will have ill motives ascribed to you.
You will receive disciplinary action for these ill motives and it is against the rules of the forum to reply to these actions in public, even though the disciplinary actions themselves are public.
The beliefs of the moderation team are sacrosanct and they will win all discussions by default by being able to literally have the last word on anything they wish, and they will do this frequently.
Anyone who finds this to be an abusive or dishonest way to interact with users is morally inferior and probably a racist and not a good fit.
The person never said "There's a wrong here, what are you gonna do? Genocide? No? Then do nothing!" they pointed out why addressing the wrongs of colonialism in the real world has proven so challenging.

Looking through past infraction reports, it has become abundantly clear that putting words in the mouths of users, claiming a stock fallacy that offends a series of rules increasingly more concerned with thought-policing people's beliefs than running a forum for RPGs, and then punishing them for the words you put in their mouth - and not allowing them to defend themselves publicly is simply standard operating procedure for this place. It's one long, escalating purity test.

This raises a number of red flags, and I'm afraid I can no longer visit this place under my personal rule 0 - you're clearly not a good fit for me. I'm giving RPG.net a lifetime ban for ceaseless thought-policing and virtue signaling through armband activism. It's disappointing because I am actually very heavily aligned with the politics of this place. It's the intellectually dishonest way in which it is wielded as a weapon to stifle discussion that bothers me so much.

I'll be back in the real world where I work with actual marginalized and disadvantaged peoples of diverse backgrounds on a daily basis, in person no less, while reeling from the actual damage places like this cause by painting progressive activism in the very worst possible light.

Sincerely, an individual who volunteered twice for Bernie Sanders' campaigns, got physically hauled out of a Trump rally by secret service, is a vocal advocate for diversity-based hiring practices with their employer, has attended multiple LGBTQ+ support rallies (in person), physically visited trans friends and to show support after hate crimes were committed against them, loudly argued against discriminatory legislation before city council, and serves with local advocacy groups for child and adults with special needs but still isn't fucking woke enough for the tin-pot dictators running this place into the ground.

Good for him. I detest how regressives parade their "concern" for native americans instead of actually putting forth much effort to actually help them out as human beings.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on October 07, 2021, 06:37:05 AM
Why do all these woketards always have so much drama and bad stuff happen to them?

Mental illness. They're uniformly dysfunctional, broken people, so unsurprisingly have dysfunctional, broken lives.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Alathon on October 07, 2021, 01:56:11 PM
Why do all these woketards always have so much drama and bad stuff happen to them?

Mental illness. They're uniformly dysfunctional, broken people, so unsurprisingly have dysfunctional, broken lives.
I'll add that because they are dysfunctional they drive healthy and good-hearted people out of their lives, surrounding themselves with similarly dysfunctional people who quite naturally spread the misery.  Because narcissism is almost always one of their co-morbidities, they come to think the whole world is like their life and project their own wretchedness onto people demonstrating a healthy life.

Because they are surrounded by sodomites, every openly Christian preacher or politician must be using glory holes.
Because they are surrounded by grifters, every capitalist who demonstrates work ethic must be ripping someone off.
Because they live in a progressive stack, straight white males must be out to get them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on October 07, 2021, 02:25:19 PM
This guy won't last long :D

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/is-this-place-for-real.887848/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 07, 2021, 02:35:24 PM
This guy won't last long :D

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/is-this-place-for-real.887848/
Nope. Already locked. I’m sure the mods are writing their writ of this guy’s excommunication from humanity right now.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on October 07, 2021, 02:47:50 PM
Brave KingAragorn, ye shall be mourned! Alas, after a few drinks we shall question thine wisdom in committing to a full frontal assault of TBP Beast.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 07, 2021, 03:19:51 PM
I think many of the users at TBP avoid looking at the Infractions board or any red text they come across. Sort of like the person who thinks they’re safe as long as you don’t look at the monster. When they stumble into a mod’s focus they’re honestly surprised.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 07, 2021, 03:30:27 PM
I think many of the users at TBP avoid looking at the Infractions board or any red text they come across. Sort of like the person who thinks they’re safe as long as you don’t look at the monster. When they stumble into a mod’s focus they’re honestly surprised.
I can't help but wonder if you're on to something here, but it doesn't say anything good about TBP.

Because that sentiment is usually seen among people living in a totalitarian police state.

My guess is that they'll nail KingAragorn with a rule 0 permaban and call it a day. Because trying to justify their idiocy in the face of his rebuttal -- which, in my opinion, is damned accurate -- will be too much for them to deal with.

If I'm going to fault KingAragorn, it's that he's been there since 2019 and should be able to read the room and realize the site is run by people who are batshit fucking bonkers. Dude, why bother?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on October 07, 2021, 03:36:22 PM
I think many of the users at TBP avoid looking at the Infractions board or any red text they come across. Sort of like the person who thinks they’re safe as long as you don’t look at the monster. When they stumble into a mod’s focus they’re honestly surprised.
Yep. The useful idiots are always surprised when the revolutionaries come for them. So many of them shout in disbelief, "But I'm on your side! I voted for Obama twice! I support LGBTQ! You can't do this to me!" as they're marched to the proverbial guillotine. If they had spent a little more time studying the French, Russian, and Cultural Revolutions instead of the Nazi boogeyman, they might have seen it coming.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on October 07, 2021, 04:32:12 PM
The scary part for someone my age, who has seen this develop over decades, is wondering where this sort of thing will go next.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on October 07, 2021, 04:53:45 PM
This guy won't last long :D

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/is-this-place-for-real.887848/
Nope. Already locked. I’m sure the mods are writing their writ of this guy’s excommunication from humanity right now.

He dared to point out that they called a Native American "racist". He is already dead.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Alathon on October 07, 2021, 05:11:20 PM
The scary part for someone my age, who has seen this develop over decades, is wondering where this sort of thing will go next.
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn wrote some good books about that.  He got to see where it went last time, up close and personal.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 07, 2021, 05:26:27 PM
This guy won't last long :D

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/is-this-place-for-real.887848/
Nope. Already locked. I’m sure the mods are writing their writ of this guy’s excommunication from humanity right now.

He dared to point out that they called a Native American "racist". He is already dead.
I didn’t catch that part. That probably explains why they haven’t officially responded yet. They’re probably looking for a Native American mod to step in, and explain to KingAragorn his internalized racism. They have to avoid the scenario of having a white person explain to the Native American how he is oppressed by the ‘orcs are bad guys’ narrative started by that edgelord Tolkien back in the 1930s. They’re trapped by their own stack. I’m pretty sure they have Native American mods, but maybe they’re currently unavailable, or those Native American mods are resisting the idea of being the token minority mod to reply to KingAragorn.

Either that, or they’re trying to dox him in the hopes of finding out that he’s not a “true” Native American.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on October 07, 2021, 07:02:23 PM
This guy won't last long :D

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/is-this-place-for-real.887848/

He's my new hero. Fair play for him for standing up to TBPs fascist mods.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 07, 2021, 10:00:29 PM
And to my complete non-surprise:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/kingaragorn-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban.887856/

People pointing out the mod policies are illogical, inconsistent, and stupid? SEND FOR THE BANHAMMER.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on October 07, 2021, 10:10:08 PM
Lol wtf is this shit? Literally little tyrant stuff. OMG!

It is clear that you will not be able to participate here in good faith and follow our rules.

You are permanently banned under Rule 0 for being a poor fit.


Now I’m curious… What’s a “good fit” for these looneys!?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on October 07, 2021, 10:10:46 PM
RIP, wise King.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on October 07, 2021, 10:15:54 PM
Wait! They use a gmail!? Lol
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KingCheops on October 08, 2021, 11:06:31 AM
BIPOC:  white progressives are not your friends and allies!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on October 08, 2021, 11:25:54 PM
Lol wtf is this shit? Literally little tyrant stuff. OMG!

It is clear that you will not be able to participate here in good faith and follow our rules.

You are permanently banned under Rule 0 for being a poor fit.


Now I’m curious… What’s a “good fit” for these looneys!?

There is none.  Seriously.  You are a good member...until you aren't.

You can compare TBP to 1984, (Complete with Two Minutes of Hate!), or China under the Cultural Revolution.  But I prefer thinking of the site as The Body of Landru from "Return of the Archons".

Everyone is going along smiling and happy, until someone does something "odd." Then "He is not of the Body?"  "HE IS NOT OF THE BODY!"
(Then they wind up here.)

"Umm...what is 'odd'?"
"We don't rule on hypotheticals!  You'll find out when you cross the line!"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 09, 2021, 02:10:05 AM
Lol wtf is this shit? Literally little tyrant stuff. OMG!

It is clear that you will not be able to participate here in good faith and follow our rules.

You are permanently banned under Rule 0 for being a poor fit.


Now I’m curious… What’s a “good fit” for these looneys!?

There is none.  Seriously.  You are a good member...until you aren't.

You can compare TBP to 1984, (Complete with Two Minutes of Hate!), or China under the Cultural Revolution.  But I prefer thinking of the site as The Body of Landru from "Return of the Archons".

Everyone is going along smiling and happy, until someone does something "odd." Then "He is not of the Body?"  "HE IS NOT OF THE BODY!"
(Then they wind up here.)

"Umm...what is 'odd'?"
"We don't rule on hypotheticals!  You'll find out when you cross the line!"

(https://y.yarn.co/048e85d4-180c-4495-9d68-1a326b67b4ef_text.gif)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ocule on October 10, 2021, 12:45:40 PM
Do they get revenue from traffic? I hate going to that site as is, not sure if we should use archives instead of direct links. I have nothing but disgust every time i visit there, and i especially hate that it comes up on searches for rpg content. Sometimes i've even used the search command to exclude tbp from results just so i dont click it by accident.

Id find it hilarious if they got spammed by porn bots
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 10, 2021, 03:32:19 PM
Lol wtf is this shit? Literally little tyrant stuff. OMG!

It is clear that you will not be able to participate here in good faith and follow our rules.

You are permanently banned under Rule 0 for being a poor fit.


Now I’m curious… What’s a “good fit” for these looneys!?

There is none.  Seriously.  You are a good member...until you aren't.

You can compare TBP to 1984, (Complete with Two Minutes of Hate!), or China under the Cultural Revolution.  But I prefer thinking of the site as The Body of Landru from "Return of the Archons".

Everyone is going along smiling and happy, until someone does something "odd." Then "He is not of the Body?"  "HE IS NOT OF THE BODY!"
(Then they wind up here.)

"Umm...what is 'odd'?"
"We don't rule on hypotheticals!  You'll find out when you cross the line!"
That's been something that peeves me off. It's one thing if they said 'OK look, we don't have a rule about doing this. We do now. Don't do this again.'

Instead, it's perpetual tiptoe-through-the-minefield if you want to post anything beyond the most bland, bloodless commentary.

I mean, holy shit, you can never plan for every eventuality. Sometimes, yeah, you have to patch in some rules.

 But I stand by an assertion I've made before: the mods get their jollies by swinging that banhammer. 

Do they get revenue from traffic? I hate going to that site as is, not sure if we should use archives instead of direct links. I have nothing but disgust every time i visit there, and i especially hate that it comes up on searches for rpg content. Sometimes i've even used the search command to exclude tbp from results just so i dont click it by accident.

Id find it hilarious if they got spammed by porn bots
Yes, they do get some revenue via ads (they've actually had some complaints on Trouble Tickets because the algorithm has thrown in some questionable ads at times).

However, they routinely rattle the cup for donations, which is why I speculated on how (or for that matter, WHAT) their owner company, Dyvers Hands, is doing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on October 10, 2021, 03:34:07 PM
But I stand by an assertion I've made before: the mods get their jollies by swinging that banhammer. 

Course they do. It's a classic example of the jumped-up little nobody, who has no power in real life, suddenly given a tiny amount of authority in a virtual world where their actions have no comeback.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 10, 2021, 03:45:24 PM
That's been something that peeves me off. It's one thing if they said 'OK look, we don't have a rule about doing this. We do now. Don't do this again.'

Instead, it's perpetual tiptoe-through-the-minefield if you want to post anything beyond the most bland, bloodless commentary.

I mean, holy shit, you can never plan for every eventuality. Sometimes, yeah, you have to patch in some rules.

 But I stand by an assertion I've made before: the mods get their jollies by swinging that banhammer. 

I think part of the problem is they try to make a rule for everything, so they can point to the rules when they make a shit moderation decision.
How many rules here at rpgsite? Not very many, and if you use a modicum of common sense, and don't intentionally honk off Pundit, you'll be pretty much ok.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 10, 2021, 05:50:33 PM
That's been something that peeves me off. It's one thing if they said 'OK look, we don't have a rule about doing this. We do now. Don't do this again.'

Instead, it's perpetual tiptoe-through-the-minefield if you want to post anything beyond the most bland, bloodless commentary.

I mean, holy shit, you can never plan for every eventuality. Sometimes, yeah, you have to patch in some rules.

 But I stand by an assertion I've made before: the mods get their jollies by swinging that banhammer. 

I think part of the problem is they try to make a rule for everything, so they can point to the rules when they make a shit moderation decision.
How many rules here at rpgsite? Not very many, and if you use a modicum of common sense, and don't intentionally honk off Pundit, you'll be pretty much ok.
It's like chasing bugs in a program. Some bugs just show up despite your best efforts at QA. So you patch them.

Same difference here. Someone finds a new and unexpected way to mess something up, or be an ass. So you say, 'This is not cool' and go from there.

What TBP mods want is to have that vague threat hanging over someone's head. They're not content to say 'don't be a dick' and call it day. Look at their 'rules and policies' -- and they STILL have bullshit like 'the burden of intent is on the poster'.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Iron_Rain on October 11, 2021, 01:49:25 AM
BIPOC:  white progressives are not your friends and allies!

You filthy racist, it's BPOC and Indigenous now. /s

Not a joke, I was told this my boss to use in all official communications from now on.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 11, 2021, 08:30:32 AM
I swear, I think Dawgstar goes out of his way to interpret posts in such a way that he can swing his banhammer.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/rose-embolism-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-and-threadban.887959/

I don't see how this is worth a seven day plus threadban, plus Dawggystyle's sanctimonious sniveling. A bit harsh, perhaps, but if it's true, well...

In any case, Rose has racked up a number of infractions. If I were them I'd be getting ready to be purged. Although considering their attitude, I'm a bit surprised they haven't been sent to the cornfield sooner. Cuddly with a mod, perhaps?

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on October 11, 2021, 11:02:47 AM
I swear, I think Dawgstar goes out of his way to interpret posts in such a way that he can swing his banhammer.

...

I don't see how this is worth a seven day plus threadban, plus Dawggystyle's sanctimonious sniveling.
It's amusing how he seems to take exception to snarkiness (whether real or imagined) in the snarkiest way possible. If he ever applied his own standards to himself, he would have to ban himself for disrespect.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on October 11, 2021, 11:17:34 AM
That's been something that peeves me off. It's one thing if they said 'OK look, we don't have a rule about doing this. We do now. Don't do this again.'

Instead, it's perpetual tiptoe-through-the-minefield if you want to post anything beyond the most bland, bloodless commentary.

I mean, holy shit, you can never plan for every eventuality. Sometimes, yeah, you have to patch in some rules.

 But I stand by an assertion I've made before: the mods get their jollies by swinging that banhammer. 

I think part of the problem is they try to make a rule for everything, so they can point to the rules when they make a shit moderation decision.
How many rules here at rpgsite? Not very many, and if you use a modicum of common sense, and don't intentionally honk off Pundit, you'll be pretty much ok.

  I always thought there rule 0 was the main one over there, which is pretty vague and nebulous, and basically means you can get banned at any time for "not being a good fit".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on October 11, 2021, 04:31:40 PM
Lol wtf is this shit? Literally little tyrant stuff. OMG!

It is clear that you will not be able to participate here in good faith and follow our rules.

You are permanently banned under Rule 0 for being a poor fit.


Now I’m curious… What’s a “good fit” for these looneys!?

Obey and shut up.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 11, 2021, 05:35:50 PM
That's been something that peeves me off. It's one thing if they said 'OK look, we don't have a rule about doing this. We do now. Don't do this again.'

Instead, it's perpetual tiptoe-through-the-minefield if you want to post anything beyond the most bland, bloodless commentary.

I mean, holy shit, you can never plan for every eventuality. Sometimes, yeah, you have to patch in some rules.

 But I stand by an assertion I've made before: the mods get their jollies by swinging that banhammer. 

I think part of the problem is they try to make a rule for everything, so they can point to the rules when they make a shit moderation decision.
How many rules here at rpgsite? Not very many, and if you use a modicum of common sense, and don't intentionally honk off Pundit, you'll be pretty much ok.

  I always thought there rule 0 was the main one over there, which is pretty vague and nebulous, and basically means you can get banned at any time for "not being a good fit".

And they invoke it to justify moderation. I'd put it as evidence that they finally had to invent a rule equivalent of a tactical nuke.
A mod could just come out an take responsibility for it. "Hey man, I don't think you're going to be a good fit here." But RPG.net has to have a rule they can point to.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 16, 2021, 11:55:43 PM
You spin me right round, baby, right round!

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/cannonball-receives-a-🚫-fourteen-day-ban-gravedancing.888241/

Actually, I don't have a problem with this, and it's fascinating that even TBP's mods can't stomach gravedancing like this. Guess even they have SOME standards, lulz.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/silvercat-moonpaw-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-group-attacks-involving-religion.888271/

This one is ... very odd. As annoyingly euphoric as Silvercat comes off here, I don't think it warrants a thirty day. I mean, they're not WRONG -- the Greek pantheon in particular was notoriously mean-spirited and petty in many myths.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kyle Aaron on October 17, 2021, 03:41:08 AM
It must have caused rpg.net mods physical pain to have to ban someone for mocking the death of a Conservative at the hands of a Moslem convert.

I am amused that they are now banning people for mocking religions which nobody has followed for more than a thousand years.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on October 17, 2021, 12:34:50 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/silvercat-moonpaw-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-group-attacks-involving-religion.888271/

This one is ... very odd. As annoyingly euphoric as Silvercat comes off here, I don't think it warrants a thirty day. I mean, they're not WRONG -- the Greek pantheon in particular was notoriously mean-spirited and petty in many myths.
Funny how Silvercat's innocuous comment on polytheism is deemed insensitive in the same message that the mods accuse others of propagandizing, engaging in atrocities, and having blood on their hands. I guess it's okay to slag whole groups of people as long as it fits the Leftist narrative.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Neoplatonist1 on October 17, 2021, 02:51:11 PM
When did RPGnet itself become a political game the mods and their toys play, rather than just a place to converse about RPGs?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Nephil on October 17, 2021, 04:14:41 PM
When did RPGnet itself become a political game the mods and their toys play, rather than just a place to converse about RPGs?
It really started in 2010 onwards, but the signs where there earlier. 2000 to 2005 were the "good ol' days" as far as I can remember.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 17, 2021, 04:28:30 PM
When did RPGnet itself become a political game the mods and their toys play, rather than just a place to converse about RPGs?
It really started in 2010 onwards, but the signs where there earlier. 2000 to 2005 were the "good ol' days" as far as I can remember.

I left (haven't logged into my account since) in 2015, but that was a slow boil.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Neoplatonist1 on October 17, 2021, 04:48:47 PM
When did RPGnet itself become a political game the mods and their toys play, rather than just a place to converse about RPGs?
It really started in 2010 onwards, but the signs where there earlier. 2000 to 2005 were the "good ol' days" as far as I can remember.

I'm afraid I no longer even understand what I'm not supposed to talk about on such places. I am genuinely mystified.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on October 17, 2021, 04:56:31 PM
I don't really hang years on it but I think Kuma's appointment as administrator was the beginning of the slide towards the left.  I'm not sure it's so much Kuma's fault, it was the time when things started getting nailed down and policies on things went from fairly loose guidelines to rules.  Cessna followed Kuma when Kuma wasn't strict enough for the rabid wolf pack.  Cessna was clearer but also more of a list of rules guy.  Professor Umbridge would have approved of the endless flow of proclamations that followed.  I can still identify with the mods a little bit at this point because there were occasional event driven flareups like elections or major news stories.  They called it the "werewolf season" because everyone suddenly seemed to turn nasty.  With the election of Donald Trump, the bias and willingness to let the angry mob define morality became set in stone policy.  At present the greatest sin seems to be contention of any kind rather than any actual left right bias.  I suspect this is because the mods have hunted down all the enemies of the state and now need a new enemy to continue their reign of terror.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Nephil on October 17, 2021, 05:06:06 PM
When did RPGnet itself become a political game the mods and their toys play, rather than just a place to converse about RPGs?
It really started in 2010 onwards, but the signs where there earlier. 2000 to 2005 were the "good ol' days" as far as I can remember.

I'm afraid I no longer even understand what I'm not supposed to talk about on such places. I am genuinely mystified.

Nothing. You are supposed to just repeat the party line. RPG.NET is a dead forum, spiraling into irrelevance, the only reason to go there is to laugh and cry over what used to be.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on October 17, 2021, 05:22:22 PM
I'm afraid I no longer even understand what I'm not supposed to talk about on such places. I am genuinely mystified.
This is why I never bothered to create an RPG.net account. I'm pretty sure I would have been banned a long time ago for some made-up reason that I never could have foreseen.

Me: "I enjoy playing RPGs."

RPG.net mod: "Enjoyment is an ablist concept that harms people suffering from depression. You are permanently banned under Rule 0."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on October 17, 2021, 05:49:24 PM
Me: "I enjoy playing RPGs."
Mod:  No one here plays RPGs. Clearly you aren't a good fit for the forum.  Banned.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abraxus on October 18, 2021, 09:46:53 AM
Lol Doc Jones I almost spit my coffee at the screen. So true though it should be a meme if it’s not already.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on October 18, 2021, 01:08:12 PM
Lol wtf is this shit? Literally little tyrant stuff. OMG!

It is clear that you will not be able to participate here in good faith and follow our rules.

You are permanently banned under Rule 0 for being a poor fit.


Now I’m curious… What’s a “good fit” for these looneys!?

There is none.  Seriously.  You are a good member...until you aren't.

You can compare TBP to 1984, (Complete with Two Minutes of Hate!), or China under the Cultural Revolution.  But I prefer thinking of the site as The Body of Landru from "Return of the Archons".

Everyone is going along smiling and happy, until someone does something "odd." Then "He is not of the Body?"  "HE IS NOT OF THE BODY!"
(Then they wind up here.)

"Umm...what is 'odd'?"
"We don't rule on hypotheticals!  You'll find out when you cross the line!"

(https://y.yarn.co/048e85d4-180c-4495-9d68-1a326b67b4ef_text.gif)
LOL, and it gets better.  Landru doesn't have planetary surveillance: You'd think a planet wide computer would.  Anyone who is Of the Body is also an Ear of Landru.  So if you say something outside The Spirit of Landru within the hearing of someone Of The Body, the guys with the long staves and red text show up. 
"What is within the Spirit of Landru?"
"If you were Of The Body, you would already know the answer."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on October 18, 2021, 01:21:35 PM


There is none.  Seriously.  You are a good member...until you aren't.

You can compare TBP to 1984, (Complete with Two Minutes of Hate!), or China under the Cultural Revolution.  But I prefer thinking of the site as The Body of Landru from "Return of the Archons".

Everyone is going along smiling and happy, until someone does something "odd." Then "He is not of the Body?"  "HE IS NOT OF THE BODY!"
(Then they wind up here.)

"Umm...what is 'odd'?"
"We don't rule on hypotheticals!  You'll find out when you cross the line!"
That's been something that peeves me off. It's one thing if they said 'OK look, we don't have a rule about doing this. We do now. Don't do this again.'

Instead, it's perpetual tiptoe-through-the-minefield if you want to post anything beyond the most bland, bloodless commentary.

I mean, holy shit, you can never plan for every eventuality. Sometimes, yeah, you have to patch in some rules.

 But I stand by an assertion I've made before: the mods get their jollies by swinging that banhammer. 
To be fair:  That rule is because they have a lot of rules lawyers and line dancers.  What's the name of the guy with the arrow?
"OK, I do this, is this halfway to the line, but not over it?"
Yes
"OK, I do this, is this again halfway to the line, but not over it?"
Yes
Etc.
Or,
"I'm a Russian kick dancer!  If I stick my foot over the line but don't touch ground, is it still over the line?"

If I were a mod at TBP, I'd just use the line of your post I bolded and be done. I know, then we couldn't play with Stormbringer uh the Banhammer.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on October 18, 2021, 01:27:32 PM
...I'm a bit surprised they haven't been sent to the cornfield sooner.
What a perfect metaphor! 8) 8) 8)

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on October 18, 2021, 02:45:38 PM
To be fair:  That rule is because they have a lot of rules lawyers and line dancers.  What's the name of the guy with the arrow?

Saint Sebastian, often referenced in Xeno's Paradox: i.e. that if space is infinitely divisible, before you can cross any distance you have to cross half of that distance, and since you always have to cross the half of the distance before that half you can never actually get anywhere, and so Saint Sebastian evidently died of fright rather than by getting struck with arrows which could never actually have reached him.

Or to phrase it a little more aphoristically, no amount of increased refinement to the letter of a rule will help people uphold its spirit if they are determined not to.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 18, 2021, 02:47:41 PM
To be fair:  That rule is because they have a lot of rules lawyers and line dancers.  What's the name of the guy with the arrow?

Saint Sebastian, often referenced in Xeno's Paradox: i.e. that if space is infinitely divisible, before you can cross any distance you have to cross half of that distance, and since you always have to cross the half of the distance before that half you can never actually get anywhere, and so Saint Sebastian evidently died of fright rather than by getting struck with arrows which could never actually have reached him.

Or to phrase it a little more aphoristically, no amount of increased refinement to the letter of a rule will help people uphold its spirit if they are determined not to.
Which is really where Rule 0 should come into play.

But it looks to me less like 'Ok, you're trying to game the system and we're not interested in playing, so fuck off' and more 'We're going to set completely arbitrary rules and randomly enforce them at our whims'.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on October 18, 2021, 05:16:44 PM
Which is really where Rule 0 should come into play.

But it looks to me less like 'Ok, you're trying to game the system and we're not interested in playing, so fuck off' and more 'We're going to set completely arbitrary rules and randomly enforce them at our whims'.

For another community I didn't know as well, I'd at least be willing to admit that that's an easy dynamic to mutually confuse. My impatience with what I see as someone else's game playing could very easily look to another person like me being arbitrary without it actually being so, and vice versa.

TBP has, unfortunately, lost my willingness to give them the benefit of the doubt in this area.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 20, 2021, 12:43:05 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/duddubuddu-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.888404/

And here we learn that wanting a group to state its intentions and demands is 'concern trolling'.

Also, that Dawgstar is a pathetic excuse for a human being, but we all knew that one.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KingCheops on October 21, 2021, 09:54:29 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/duddubuddu-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.888404/

And here we learn that wanting a group to state its intentions and demands is 'concern trolling'.

Also, that Dawgstar is a pathetic excuse for a human being, but we all knew that one.

Well I mean if you're forced to illuminate your actual desires it's possible that they could be met.  They learned that mistake with gay marriage and now just make sure to make nebulous demands so that they can get whatever they want.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 21, 2021, 10:07:10 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/duddubuddu-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.888404/

And here we learn that wanting a group to state its intentions and demands is 'concern trolling'.

Also, that Dawgstar is a pathetic excuse for a human being, but we all knew that one.

Well I mean if you're forced to illuminate your actual desires it's possible that they could be met.  They learned that mistake with gay marriage and now just make sure to make nebulous demands so that they can get whatever they want.
That and I suspect some of them don't even KNOW what they want.

It's like the cries for 'we want dignity!'. But dignity can't be handed out like a candy bar.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KingCheops on October 21, 2021, 10:19:06 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/duddubuddu-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.888404/

And here we learn that wanting a group to state its intentions and demands is 'concern trolling'.

Also, that Dawgstar is a pathetic excuse for a human being, but we all knew that one.

Well I mean if you're forced to illuminate your actual desires it's possible that they could be met.  They learned that mistake with gay marriage and now just make sure to make nebulous demands so that they can get whatever they want.
That and I suspect some of them don't even KNOW what they want.

It's like the cries for 'we want dignity!'. But dignity can't be handed out like a candy bar.

I mean it can if you're the type of person who feels good about getting a participation trophy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on October 22, 2021, 01:53:26 PM
This one is interesting https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/degenesis-calls-it-quits.888525/

"good riddance" didn't get any heat but suggesting that racism can be dealt with in a setting without the designers being racist got a 7 day ban.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 22, 2021, 02:00:53 PM
This one is interesting https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/degenesis-calls-it-quits.888525/

"good riddance" didn't get any heat but suggesting that racism can be dealt with in a setting without the designers being racist got a 7 day ban.
From my read the poster who got banned was asking for an honest clarification to a pretty blunt and general statement. I guess TBP can’t have that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on October 22, 2021, 02:23:18 PM
"good riddance" didn't get any heat but suggesting that racism can be dealt with in a setting without the designers being racist got a 7 day ban.

It's another kafkatrap. When I accuse you of posting in bad faith, that's only proof of my bad faith; but when you accuse me of posting in bad faith, that's also proof of my bad faith.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on October 22, 2021, 03:23:44 PM
"good riddance" didn't get any heat but suggesting that racism can be dealt with in a setting without the designers being racist got a 7 day ban.

It's another kafkatrap. When I accuse you of posting in bad faith, that's only proof of my bad faith; but when you accuse me of posting in bad faith, that's also proof of my bad faith.

Explaining the trap is proof of your bad faith.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on October 22, 2021, 03:53:47 PM
Quote by woke moderator

Quote
Racism as part of a game world is a game designer's choice, and it's not a good choice.

Wow. Guess the swedish game Western 4ed once it comes out in a english translation sometimes soon (translation available to backers atm) will not be well received by RPGnet. Their loss. It is a beautiful game.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 22, 2021, 05:32:15 PM
Quote
Furthermore, Racism in roleplaying games should not be normal, for all that some may wish to continue normalizing it. Racism as part of a game world is a game designer's choice, and it's not a good choice.

The fucking fuck?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on October 22, 2021, 05:38:10 PM
Quote
Furthermore, Racism in roleplaying games should not be normal, for all that some may wish to continue normalizing it. Racism as part of a game world is a game designer's choice, and it's not a good choice.

The fucking fuck?
By the standard that systemic racism has been pervasive throughout history, that means all historical RPGs have to go. And all modern RPGs as well. And the only fantasy or far future RPGs that are allowed are those that meet the anti-racist (racist) progressive ideal. And since progressive goalposts constantly change, that means all RPGs that weren't written in the last 5 seconds are banned.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on October 22, 2021, 06:28:24 PM
Quote
Furthermore, Racism in roleplaying games should not be normal, for all that some may wish to continue normalizing it. Racism as part of a game world is a game designer's choice, and it's not a good choice.

The fucking fuck?
By the standard that systemic racism has been pervasive throughout history, that means all historical RPGs have to go. And all modern RPGs as well. And the only fantasy or far future RPGs that are allowed are those that meet the anti-racist (racist) progressive ideal. And since progressive goalposts constantly change, that means all RPGs that weren't written in the last 5 seconds are banned.

And there it is - the goal. To simply erase everything and declare that they were always right. I would not be surprised if we see a move within a few years to declare that all RPGs before 2015 never existed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on October 22, 2021, 06:39:02 PM
...And make owning such a hate crime?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on October 22, 2021, 07:14:46 PM
...And make owning such a hate crime?
I'd say "Don't give them any ideas", but "Everything we don't like is a Hate Crime!" is already one of their few ideas.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on October 22, 2021, 07:19:03 PM
Quote
Furthermore, Racism in roleplaying games should not be normal, for all that some may wish to continue normalizing it. Racism as part of a game world is a game designer's choice, and it's not a good choice.

The fucking fuck?
By the standard that systemic racism has been pervasive throughout history, that means all historical RPGs have to go. And all modern RPGs as well. And the only fantasy or far future RPGs that are allowed are those that meet the anti-racist (racist) progressive ideal. And since progressive goalposts constantly change, that means all RPGs that weren't written in the last 5 seconds are banned.

And there it is - the goal. To simply erase everything and declare that they were always right. I would not be surprised if we see a move within a few years to declare that all RPGs before 2015 never existed.

Thats never happened before.  Oh wait

(https://cdn8.openculture.com/2017/08/20195102/soviet-censorship-naval-commissar-vanishes.jpg)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on October 22, 2021, 08:53:30 PM
Greetings!

Just by reading through a few of the commenters posts from the thread links to TBP, I can't help but believe that few of these morons have any real experience with unions. I have been a member of a union, for years, as well as involved in management. Before I ever worked in a union, I used to have a much more positive view of unions. After my own actual experience in a large union--for years--as well as my close, personal knowledge of several friends that have worked as members of *different* kinds of unions--my opinion of unions has become definitely more cynical, and informed by real knowledge and real, first-hand experience. Unions are in many ways largely corrupt and inefficient, and while they provide *some* benefit to the employees in general, they also cause a great deal of professional harm, suffering, and lost reward and opportunities for many employees. In a nutshell, Unions mostly protect and facilitate mediocre, lazy, unmotivated employees that are content with doing just enough work professionally to "get by" and not get fired--while simultaneously actively and bureaucratically *harming* and limiting highly-motivated, genuinely hard-working employees that are ambitious. It is often a case organizationally and individually of taking two steps forward and three steps backwards. Certainly, in society, there are a few unions that seem to represent their members very well, and consistently do excellent work to improve the pay, conditions, and professional strength an influence of their members--such as the Police Unions, and the Teacher's Unions. However, even they possess some inherent, deeply disturbing dynamics and problems which negatively influence the productivity and efficiency of those professional industries.

Anyone that doesn't recognize these deeper realities concerning Unions is simply brainwashed, inexperienced, or in absolute denial.

So, I certainly have mixed feelings concerning "Unions".

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on October 22, 2021, 09:02:28 PM
The Teachers Union is the example of a good Union?  :o
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on October 22, 2021, 09:10:43 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/duddubuddu-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.888404/

And here we learn that wanting a group to state its intentions and demands is 'concern trolling'.

For leftists, loyalty means going along with the Party, even when the Party is wrong. This is a simple matter of, "If the answer matters to you, the answer doesn't matter. You simply must support."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on October 22, 2021, 11:03:16 PM
The Teachers Union is the example of a good Union?  :o

Greetings!

*Laughing* Well, I did stipulate that even good unions--which I meant *effective* unions--also have some serious problems. As scandals and other BS has come out, we are more aware of some of the corruption an goings-on with Police Unions, and Teachers Unions as well.

From a purely employee-standpoint concerning efficiency, pay and benefits, an overall effectiveness, power, an influence, I woul think that the Police Unions and Teacher's Unions are some pretty good examples.

Having said that, yes, the fucking Teacher's Union is choke with Marxist corruption an brainwashing, an is absolutely terrible. I think their impact on school systems and society in general is terrible.

Furthermore, while it could also be pointed out that such unions--like the Teacher's Unions--have been outstandingly effective in championing their members--vs-a-vs pay, benefits, goodies, retirement, healthcare, an so on--all of that is true. An yet, they are also a HUGE example of failure, corruption, and problems, as I mentioned about unions in general--looking at how Teacher's Unions coddle an embrace protecting thoroughly mediocre teachers an terrible, Marxist fucking cunts that seek to o nothing except brainwash ur kids. So many worthless, brainwashed fucking teachers that prove to be absolutely useless and incapable of actually being good teachers and educators. They are a fucking disgrace and should be ashamed. So many of these worthless fucking teachers should be promptly and ruthlessly FIRED.

ARRGGHH. My apologies for being *imprecise* Fucking Teacher's Unions piss me off. I hope they are crushed. All of these worthless goddamn Marxist teachers need to be fucking unemployed and living under a fucking bridge, begging for dogfood.

Shasarak, are Teacher's Unions full of Marxism and shit like the Teacher's Unions here in the States?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on October 22, 2021, 11:13:35 PM
Shasarak, are Teacher's Unions full of Marxism and shit like the Teacher's Unions here in the States?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

We are always five years behind everyone else but you can see it coming.

It wont belong before I will need to get on the PTA.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on October 23, 2021, 12:18:13 AM
The Teachers Union is the example of a good Union?  :o

Having said that, yes, the fucking Teacher's Union is choke with Marxist corruption an brainwashing, an is absolutely terrible. I think their impact on school systems and society in general is terrible.

ARRGGHH. My apologies for being *imprecise* Fucking Teacher's Unions piss me off. I hope they are crushed. All of these worthless goddamn Marxist teachers need to be fucking unemployed and living under a fucking bridge, begging for dogfood.


Well, it had to happen eventually, I agree with you on something.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on October 25, 2021, 01:34:40 PM
4 days in, and already a threadban, despite being quite courteous.  https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/paizo-staffers-unionize.888170/page-11
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 25, 2021, 01:56:48 PM
4 days in, and already a threadban, despite being quite courteous.  https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/paizo-staffers-unionize.888170/page-11
Interestingly, the threadban isn't in Infractions.

Keep in mind that no matter how polite and courteous you are, if you question their sacred narrative, you are in trouble.

Comparisons to religious zealots are pretty accurate.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: moonsweeper on October 25, 2021, 01:58:59 PM
I love how they claimed that you lacked knowledge of basic economic principles...  :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on October 25, 2021, 01:59:59 PM
4 days in, and already a threadban, despite being quite courteous.  https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/paizo-staffers-unionize.888170/page-11

Calling someone's post "concern trolling" is by definition an accusation of arguing in bad faith.

Saying that someone's posts are indistinguishable from "concern trolling" is by definition an admission of one's own bad faith, as it is openly acknowledging that it doesn't matter to someone whether an opponent is sincere or not.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on October 25, 2021, 02:14:02 PM
Noticed this one:
The thread started with:
Quote from: Lewd Beholder
okay dumb question. what things can you do with a low level party at a rodeo?
...and was met with several ideas for story hooks, skill challenges, etc.

Yet this one....
Quote from: Shutters
Anthrax outbreak! Contain the spread before it's too late.
...was given a threadban for "Threadcrapping", which I have no idea what it is.  It seems quite random, since other posts suggesting adventure hooks were fine.



https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/fun-things-to-do-at-a-rodeo.887192/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Godfather Punk on October 25, 2021, 02:20:11 PM
Yet this one....
Quote from: Shutters
Anthrax outbreak! Contain the spread before it's too late.
...was given a threadban for "Threadcrapping", which I have no idea what it is.  It seems quite random, since other posts suggesting adventure hooks were fine.
It's simple: only state approved humor is allowed. Don't try to bring in your own.

Seriously, what a fun-devoid place that site has become.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on October 25, 2021, 02:38:47 PM
Yet this one....
Quote from: Shutters
Anthrax outbreak! Contain the spread before it's too late.
...was given a threadban for "Threadcrapping", which I have no idea what it is.  It seems quite random, since other posts suggesting adventure hooks were fine.
It's simple: only state approved humor is allowed. Don't try to bring in your own.

Seriously, what a fun-devoid place that site has become.
It's not even that a terrible idea for a hook. One by one, animals start showing signs of illness. The PCs do some investigating to see why animals that were kept separate are spreading an illness. Someone is poisoning the competition, and it's not really a disease...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Godfather Punk on October 25, 2021, 02:40:52 PM
Sure, but saying that would get you another ban for talking back to redtext, soapboxing and replying in the thread you were banned from...

"What a strange forum. The only way to win is not to post."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 25, 2021, 02:41:29 PM
Yet this one....
Quote from: Shutters
Anthrax outbreak! Contain the spread before it's too late.
...was given a threadban for "Threadcrapping", which I have no idea what it is.  It seems quite random, since other posts suggesting adventure hooks were fine.
It's simple: only state approved humor is allowed. Don't try to bring in your own.

Seriously, what a fun-devoid place that site has become.
It's not even that a terrible idea for a hook. One by one, animals start showing signs of illness. The PCs do some investigating to see why animals that were kept separate are spreading an illness. Someone is poisoning the competition, and it's not really a disease...
Much like a number of other infractions, 'threadcrapping' is somewhat subjective, and thanks to TBP's policy of 'the onus is on the poster', it's entirely possible to post something constructive and still get redtexted.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on October 30, 2021, 12:11:15 AM
Sad, really sad. Wish the Annunaki would stop fooling around and just land their damn spaceship already.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 06, 2021, 05:55:11 PM
I think Marras is doomed:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/marras-receives-a-🚫-seven-day-ban-placeholder-ban-pending-further-action.889252/

A non-native English speaker finds it a little weird that the singular they is getting pushed, gets an initial 7-day ban as a placeholder. I’m sure they’re running through Marras’ history of 1000+ posts over the last 7 years or so to find whatever justification they can for a permaban. I think it’s a little ironic as I believe Marras is a Finn, and their 3rd-person singular pronoun is actually gender-neutral, so one might think Marras could have something interesting to contribute to the pronoun discussion. Nope, Marras violated today’s orthodoxy, to the cornfield he goes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Joey2k on November 06, 2021, 06:14:51 PM
I think Marras is doomed:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/marras-receives-a-🚫-seven-day-ban-placeholder-ban-pending-further-action.889252/

A non-native English speaker finds it a little weird that the singular they is getting pushed, gets an initial 7-day ban as a placeholder. I’m sure they’re running through Marras’ history of 1000+ posts over the last 7 years or so to find whatever justification they can for a permaban. I think it’s a little ironic as I believe Marras is a Finn, and they’re 3rd-person singular pronoun is actually gender-neutral, so one might think Marras could have something interesting to contribute to the pronoun discussion. Nope, Marras violated today’s orthodoxy, to the cornfield he goes.

Geez. That is just about the most innocuous inoffensive post I have read
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 07, 2021, 12:08:57 AM
But thanks to the TBP policy of 'the onus is on the poster for clarity', anyone who does not have native-level grasp of English is vulnerable, since non-native speakers can (and do) fumble the language (not knocking those who have this issue, but it happens).

And so they'll ban some other poor sap for high crimes. Fuckers.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Neoplatonist1 on November 07, 2021, 09:48:34 AM
Have any RPGnet mods ever repented of their bad faith and left their totalitarian fiefdom?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 07, 2021, 11:42:33 AM
Have any RPGnet mods ever repented of their bad faith and left their totalitarian fiefdom?
I believe the closest we got to that was Rand Brittain throwing a HUGE tantrum because (in his opinion) TBP's staff had run interference for Matt and Michelle McFarland. He was subsequently banned for it -- probably because he had the nerve to straight up point out there was a major conflict of interest as well as the idiocy of TBP staff saying 'oh but you should trust us uwu'.

But honestly, the majority of banned staff are probably not banned because they repented, but because they fell afoul of the purity spiral.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on November 07, 2021, 04:44:09 PM
Have any RPGnet mods ever repented of their bad faith and left their totalitarian fiefdom?

  Wasn't Dan Davenport a mod for a while, long before the dark times?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 07, 2021, 08:34:01 PM
And Marras is gone.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/marras-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban.889287/

They did their digging for badthink, and found an infraction they gave Marras earlier for stating “We’re all entitled to our own opinions, even about Morgan being transfobic or not.” Marras didn’t make a transphobic statement, but stated people can have their own opinions as to whether an author was transphobic.  Nope, at TBP people are not entitled to their own opinions, people are only entitled to goodthink.

The other reference they made was to Marras participation in a discussion about the change in Deadlands canon regarding the Confederacy. Marras received no infractions from that discussion, but the TBP mods decided to tar Marras as a racist as well. Given that Marras hadn’t received infractions in that thread you know the TBP mods had decided to go through Marras’ complete posting history to pull that old thread up.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KingCheops on November 07, 2021, 10:55:26 PM
And Marras is gone.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/marras-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban.889287/

They did their digging for badthink, and found an infraction they gave Marras earlier for stating “We’re all entitled to our own opinions, even about Morgan being transfobic or not.” Marras didn’t make a transphobic statement, but stated people can have their own opinions as to whether an author was transphobic.  Nope, at TBP people are not entitled to their own opinions, people are only entitled to goodthink.

The other reference they made was to Marras participation in a discussion about the change in Deadlands canon regarding the Confederacy. Marras received no infractions from that discussion, but the TBP mods decided to tar Marras as a racist as well. Given that Marras hadn’t received infractions in that thread you know the TBP mods had decided to go through Marras’ complete posting history to pull that old thread up.

Who'd have thought the guy who wrote Altered Carbon could be considered transphobic.  What a fucking clown world we live in.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 07, 2021, 11:04:09 PM
Who'd have thought the guy who wrote Altered Carbon could be considered transphobic.  What a fucking clown world we live in.

One of the hallmarks of the fanatic is that no criticism of the Movement's methods can be assumed to be a good-faith attempt to improve the chance of it accomplishing its goals; it is always assumed to be a covert attempt to undermine and reject said goals.

I have no idea what Morgan said, but I would bet a fairly large sum of money that it was a criticism of particular advocacy actions rather than a condemnation of gender-dysphoric people.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 08, 2021, 07:58:46 AM
And Marras is gone.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/marras-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban.889287/

They did their digging for badthink, and found an infraction they gave Marras earlier for stating “We’re all entitled to our own opinions, even about Morgan being transfobic or not.” Marras didn’t make a transphobic statement, but stated people can have their own opinions as to whether an author was transphobic.  Nope, at TBP people are not entitled to their own opinions, people are only entitled to goodthink.

The other reference they made was to Marras participation in a discussion about the change in Deadlands canon regarding the Confederacy. Marras received no infractions from that discussion, but the TBP mods decided to tar Marras as a racist as well. Given that Marras hadn’t received infractions in that thread you know the TBP mods had decided to go through Marras’ complete posting history to pull that old thread up.

Who'd have thought the guy who wrote Altered Carbon could be considered transphobic.  What a fucking clown world we live in.
It's not like Morgan is some kind of alt-right icon. He's a raging lefty, but because he does not genuflect in the direction of trans superiority, TBP hates him.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: The Spaniard on November 09, 2021, 11:35:47 AM
Sure, but saying that would get you another ban for talking back to redtext, soapboxing and replying in the thread you were banned from...

"What a strange forum. The only way to win is not to post."

Indeed.  I have no idea why anyone who doesn't follow their dogma to the letter even goes there, except to maybe watch the train wrecks.   I have no time for those mutts.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bunch on November 09, 2021, 09:46:01 PM
Have any RPGnet mods ever repented of their bad faith and left their totalitarian fiefdom?

  Wasn't Dan Davenport a mod for a while, long before the dark times?
I believe you're correct about that. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 10, 2021, 08:04:14 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/metalicious-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-threadban-threadcrapping.889381/

I want to call this latest one to attention because it illustrates a HUGE problem with TBP's 'forum culture' (it's like e.coli!).

There is no way, apparently, to voice a contradicting opinion in a thread. If you do, it's called 'threadcrapping' and you're kicked out of it.

I can understand 'keep it civil and constructive'. That's fair. But to rampantly mod people for voicing a contrary opinion?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 10, 2021, 08:56:21 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/metalicious-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-threadban-threadcrapping.889381/

I want to call this latest one to attention because it illustrates a HUGE problem with TBP's 'forum culture' (it's like e.coli!).

There is no way, apparently, to voice a contradicting opinion in a thread. If you do, it's called 'threadcrapping' and you're kicked out of it.

I can understand 'keep it civil and constructive'. That's fair. But to rampantly mod people for voicing a contrary opinion?
That’s by design. Cults don’t encourage debates to occur that question premises, even if the debate is in regards to a topic not directly threatening to the cult. Such debates encourage free thinking, and possibly members deciding to go their own way, which is not a practice any cult encourages.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Anomalous on November 10, 2021, 10:08:03 AM
I think Marras is doomed:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/marras-receives-a-🚫-seven-day-ban-placeholder-ban-pending-further-action.889252/

A non-native English speaker finds it a little weird that the singular they is getting pushed, gets an initial 7-day ban as a placeholder. I’m sure they’re running through Marras’ history of 1000+ posts over the last 7 years or so to find whatever justification they can for a permaban. I think it’s a little ironic as I believe Marras is a Finn, and their 3rd-person singular pronoun is actually gender-neutral, so one might think Marras could have something interesting to contribute to the pronoun discussion. Nope, Marras violated today’s orthodoxy, to the cornfield he goes.

Do we have a critical incident response team that swoops in and helps these folks find there way here?  We should totally have that. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Anomalous on November 10, 2021, 10:10:08 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/metalicious-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-threadban-threadcrapping.889381/

I want to call this latest one to attention because it illustrates a HUGE problem with TBP's 'forum culture' (it's like e.coli!).

There is no way, apparently, to voice a contradicting opinion in a thread. If you do, it's called 'threadcrapping' and you're kicked out of it.

I can understand 'keep it civil and constructive'. That's fair. But to rampantly mod people for voicing a contrary opinion?

This is a problem for them, not us.  There's only so far a cherished three-letter domain will get you when this kind of odious and irrational behaviour is on regular display.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 10, 2021, 10:31:47 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/broken-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban.889417/

Kinda mixed on this one. I think Dawgstar is a piece of shit, but Broken has been playing edgelord for so long he needs a good walloping.

Hard to decide, really. And Broken really is a dumbass with some of his 'hot takes'. I really can't get too worked up over him getting a month vacation.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Neoplatonist1 on November 10, 2021, 10:38:31 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/broken-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban.889417/

Kinda mixed on this one. I think Dawgstar is a piece of shit, but Broken has been playing edgelord for so long he needs a good walloping.

Hard to decide, really. And Broken really is a dumbass with some of his 'hot takes'. I really can't get too worked up over him getting a month vacation.

I've been thinking about this a bit and I've come to the conclusion that the RPGnet mods aren't just stupid or crazy or amusingly power-drunk, they're actually evil. I realize that this evil should technically be classified as minor, even trivial, but, it speaks to the way these people, and people like them in other areas, think (and how they will act) politically. They are consumed with bad faith. It's frightening.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on November 10, 2021, 11:38:08 AM
I don't get it*. Why are slaves more offensive than all the other shit that goes down in RPGs? I have a feeling that if he had said that "we are playing trained assassins" nobody would bat an eye.

* Well, I sort of do; it's the American race hysteria of course.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 11, 2021, 08:20:22 AM
Why are slaves more offensive than all the other shit that goes down in RPGs?

Not just there being slaves in the game, but the implication (of Broken's original idea) that PCs in an RPG based on Magic: The Gathering would effectively be slavers as part of the game's expected action -- the creatures in an M:tG deck would have to be a planewalker's absolutely obedient possessions and could be acquired and traded between walkers, which amounts to much the same thing.

I have to admit, I'm generally a non-woke person and even I don't think that's a particularly good idea. (Would anyone play a "Ticket to Ride"-style economic empire builder game about running the mid-Atlantic slave trade?)

The difference is that I still think it's better to shine light on such ideas and have them debated away, not squelched as ipso facto inadmissible.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 11, 2021, 08:29:14 AM
Why are slaves more offensive than all the other shit that goes down in RPGs?

Not just there being slaves in the game, but the implication (of Broken's original idea) that PCs in an RPG based on Magic: The Gathering would effectively be slavers as part of the game's expected action -- the creatures in an M:tG deck would have to be a planewalker's absolutely obedient possessions and could be acquired and traded between walkers, which amounts to much the same thing.

I have to admit, I'm generally a non-woke person and even I don't think that's a particularly good idea. (Would anyone play a "Ticket to Ride"-style economic empire builder game about running the mid-Atlantic slave trade?)

The difference is that I still think it's better to shine light on such ideas and have them debated away, not squelched as ipso facto inadmissible.
I cheerfully admit that unless a party was setting up with an ulterior motive (joining the slave trade to free the slaves and cripple it), I would warn the players that willingly trafficking in slaves is an evil act and would affect their alignment, not to mention their standing with mortal and divine forces.

But TBP freaks out if you even discuss slavery in the most static or minimalist terms.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 11, 2021, 08:39:53 AM
TBP freaks out if you even discuss slavery in the most static or minimalist terms.

The first step in the intolerable coming to pass is for the unimaginable to become widely imagined, so the only way to ensure the unimaginable remains so is to expel anyone who insists on imagining it. Or make it impossible to express, as the whole phenomenon of Newspeak was fictionally intended to do.

I confess to some academic interest about whether an RPG or other game about running the Underground Railroad, or overthrowing institutional slavery in any context, would be allowed; one should think casting slavers as the Big Bads and slavery as the Great Evil should be perfectly fine, but these arguments forbid even that on the grounds the mere concept is too traumatizing to examine. (Much less any suggestion of the "White Saviour" trope; the famous statue of Abraham Lincoln as the Emancipator, helping raise a former slave to stand on his own two feet, is condemned by these folks for implying the slave needed the help).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 11, 2021, 02:30:54 PM
Well, that was unsurprising.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/broken-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.889470/

Although it makes me wonder why they bothered. The internal logic of TBP is probably less coherent than the scriptures of the Chaos Gods in Warhammer/40k.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Godfather Punk on November 11, 2021, 04:47:35 PM
Currently 217 active members (10% of who are probably mods, admins or informants)

I wonder who (still) finances a site that so actively goes to lower the number of its active members, I mean somebody has to click those add banners, right? Or do bots count too?
Ah yes, probably GoFundMe and other money drives from the faithful, to cover the expenses.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on November 11, 2021, 05:52:43 PM
Currently 217 active members (10% of who are probably mods, admins or informants)

I wonder who (still) finances a site that so actively goes to lower the number of its active members, I mean somebody has to click those add banners, right? Or do bots count too?
Ah yes, probably GoFundMe and other money drives from the faithful, to cover the expenses.

Most sites in their tier are visited by 20~30 bots on a daily basis. It can go to as high as 100+ depending on backlinks, etc. A lot of these SEO tools offer rank 1-3 backlinks for a premium. Bot wise, they are probably in the high 40s minimum. So “active” members may be just around 80-100.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on November 12, 2021, 11:07:16 AM

Not just there being slaves in the game, but the implication (of Broken's original idea) that PCs in an RPG based on Magic: The Gathering would effectively be slavers as part of the game's expected action -- the creatures in an M:tG deck would have to be a planewalker's absolutely obedient possessions and could be acquired and traded between walkers, which amounts to much the same thing.

I have to admit, I'm generally a non-woke person and even I don't think that's a particularly good idea. (Would anyone play a "Ticket to Ride"-style economic empire builder game about running the mid-Atlantic slave trade?)

The difference is that I still think it's better to shine light on such ideas and have them debated away, not squelched as ipso facto inadmissible.

When it comes to entertainment I'm hardliner: I don't really care if people are playing serial killers or child molesters, as long as they're just saying it (or even drawing it). I might raise an eyebrow at the ickyness, and say that this is not something I'm interested in, but whatever. As a supporting note; I don't think I have ever heard of a murder spree being inspired by the music of Cannibal Corpse. In fact, I think the general effect is the opposite; entertainment and "blowing off steam" tends to lower our tendency towards violence, and I do have some general observations over time that supports this.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 12, 2021, 12:01:22 PM
When it comes to entertainment I'm hardliner: I don't really care if people are playing serial killers or child molesters, as long as they're just saying it (or even drawing it). I might raise an eyebrow at the ickyness, and say that this is not something I'm interested in, but whatever.

I partly agree, partly disagree.  On the one hand fantasy and art are not reality, and don't have the same moral weight.  On the other, what somebody chooses to fantasize about doing, in at least a semi-personally-identifying vicarious way, for his own enjoyment can raise valid warning flags, and there are subjects and courses of fantasized action which invite more such flags than others.

I think it's valid to say that objecting to a player who wants to spend game time on enslaving NPCs and slave-trading, or to a game which encouraged such choices as an expected and prominent course of action for PCs, goes beyond personal ickyness. However, I reject TBP's approach because it's clear they consider even raising such topics to be tantamount to endorsing them, and are reading any reported complaint assuming the worst possible bad faith on the part of whoever is complained about.

Quote
I don't think I have ever heard of a murder spree being inspired by the music of Cannibal Corpse. In fact, I think the general effect is the opposite; entertainment and "blowing off steam" tends to lower our tendency towards violence, and I do have some general observations over time that supports this.

Again, I agree and disagree. For most people fantasy can be a valid and safe way to exorcise antisocial impulses, but there are people for which certain fantasies only serve as fuel for the boiler pressure within rather than as a relief valve -- the fantasies don't create that damage, but they can aggravate it and sometimes disastrously trigger it. It's unfair to assume fantasy is always a direct precursor or indicator of reality, but it's naive to treat them as completely separate and unconnected; one has to get down to brass tacks about specific people before one can make judgements in either direction this way.

TBP's error, as above, is to think it's both possible and morally obligatory to prevent people taking the discussion of fantasy topics to unhealthy directions or extremes by prohibiting any discussion of all of certain topics, on the grounds there can't possibly be enough "healthy" use of them to justify permitting it even in a fantasy environment. This, again, I reject on the grounds that it's a pre-emptive assumption of the worst possible context, without taking specific individuals into account.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Neoplatonist1 on November 12, 2021, 05:45:48 PM
I think it's valid to say that objecting to a player who wants to spend game time on enslaving NPCs and slave-trading, or to a game which encouraged such choices as an expected and prominent course of action for PCs, goes beyond personal ickyness.

What about players who want to portray, I don't know, vampires?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on November 12, 2021, 06:05:20 PM
Is that cunt Darren MacLennan still a mod on the purple shithole?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Nephil on November 12, 2021, 06:28:58 PM
Is that cunt Darren MacLennan still a mod on the purple shithole?

Yep. Cannibal smily or some shit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 12, 2021, 09:47:16 PM
Is that cunt Darren MacLennan still a mod on the purple shithole?

Yep. Cannibal smily or some shit.
Yup. He's Cannibal Smiliest. Though I haven't seen much out of him of late. He was last on 11/4, but his last post was on 9/25. Curious.

In the meantime: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/kettlehelm-receives-a-🚫-three-day-ban.889512/

They don't even like oblique mentions of ACKS. It's kind of funny in a way.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/komradebob-receives-a-🔴-warning-and-threadban.889513/

This one needs some context. I think komradebob was sarcastically responding back to a comment that OSR and storygaming were the same thing. So of course, Dawgstar gets the chance to wave his tiny dick around. I am unsurprised.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: psiconauta_retro on November 13, 2021, 02:28:38 AM

In the meantime: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/kettlehelm-receives-a-🚫-three-day-ban.889512/

They don't even like oblique mentions of ACKS. It's kind of funny in a way.


This called my attention, does anybody know which are the games banned to talk about on TBP? Maybe they are interesting reads...

Even more, does anybody know why they are banned?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 13, 2021, 05:28:53 AM

In the meantime: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/kettlehelm-receives-a-🚫-three-day-ban.889512/

They don't even like oblique mentions of ACKS. It's kind of funny in a way.


This called my attention, does anybody know which are the games banned to talk about on TBP? Maybe they are interesting reads...

Even more, does anybody know why they are banned?

In the case of ACKS...

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/acks-autarch-added-to-forbidden-topics-list.830945/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Neoplatonist1 on November 13, 2021, 12:41:06 PM

In the meantime: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/kettlehelm-receives-a-🚫-three-day-ban.889512/

They don't even like oblique mentions of ACKS. It's kind of funny in a way.


This called my attention, does anybody know which are the games banned to talk about on TBP? Maybe they are interesting reads...

Even more, does anybody know why they are banned?

In the case of ACKS...

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/acks-autarch-added-to-forbidden-topics-list.830945/

Good to see badwrongfun marches on.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 13, 2021, 01:43:10 PM
What about players who want to portray, I don't know, vampires?

Or murderhobos?

With vampires specifically, at least in The Big Vampire Game, it's generally assumed that no PC becomes a vampire by full informed consent, and that particular game also makes it inherently part of the rules that vampires are innately self-destructive. Vampires also have the advantage (in this context) of not actually being real.

Turn it around and use another crime of equal moral turpitude, then: would most people's (I assume) dislike of a game that required its PCs to be drug dealers or sex traffickers be mere "ickyness"?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on November 13, 2021, 03:25:50 PM

In the meantime: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/kettlehelm-receives-a-🚫-three-day-ban.889512/

They don't even like oblique mentions of ACKS. It's kind of funny in a way.


This called my attention, does anybody know which are the games banned to talk about on TBP? Maybe they are interesting reads...

Even more, does anybody know why they are banned?

In the case of ACKS...

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/acks-autarch-added-to-forbidden-topics-list.830945/

Let’s think about this a minute. It is so important for TBP to call Autarch a Nazi, they are incapable of allowing others to discuss his games without doing so.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Neoplatonist1 on November 13, 2021, 05:09:39 PM
What about players who want to portray, I don't know, vampires?

Or murderhobos?

With vampires specifically, at least in The Big Vampire Game, it's generally assumed that no PC becomes a vampire by full informed consent, and that particular game also makes it inherently part of the rules that vampires are innately self-destructive. Vampires also have the advantage (in this context) of not actually being real.

Unreal, unwilling, and self-destructive or not, it's still presuming player-characters who commit aggravated assault and murder on a regular basis.

Quote
Turn it around and use another crime of equal moral turpitude, then: would most people's (I assume) dislike of a game that required its PCs to be drug dealers or sex traffickers be mere "ickyness"?

I think this is approaching black-and-white thinking. Who wants to play a black game where all evils are ruled in? But, a game can be gray. One might purchase slaves to redeem them, but then never have the opportunity to do so, and find oneself obliged to sell them at a later date. Then one is technically a slave-trader, even though one had the best of intentions.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 14, 2021, 12:11:39 AM
If I'm not mistaken, Macris did threaten legal action at one point. And as I've said before, when the legal notices start to roll out, playtime is done.

Of course, they wouldn't have that problem if they didn't make a habit of defaming people.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on November 14, 2021, 08:34:46 AM
If I'm not mistaken, Macris did threaten legal action at one point. And as I've said before, when the legal notices start to roll out, playtime is done.

Of course, they wouldn't have that problem if they didn't make a habit of defaming people.

He is an actual lawyer and they did defame him. What did they think was going to happen?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on November 14, 2021, 09:43:17 AM
When it comes to entertainment I'm hardliner: I don't really care if people are playing serial killers or child molesters, as long as they're just saying it (or even drawing it). I might raise an eyebrow at the ickyness, and say that this is not something I'm interested in, but whatever.

I partly agree, partly disagree.  On the one hand fantasy and art are not reality, and don't have the same moral weight.  On the other, what somebody chooses to fantasize about doing, in at least a semi-personally-identifying vicarious way, for his own enjoyment can raise valid warning flags, and there are subjects and courses of fantasized action which invite more such flags than others.

I think it's valid to say that objecting to a player who wants to spend game time on enslaving NPCs and slave-trading, or to a game which encouraged such choices as an expected and prominent course of action for PCs, goes beyond personal ickyness. However, I reject TBP's approach because it's clear they consider even raising such topics to be tantamount to endorsing them, and are reading any reported complaint assuming the worst possible bad faith on the part of whoever is complained about.

Quote
I don't think I have ever heard of a murder spree being inspired by the music of Cannibal Corpse. In fact, I think the general effect is the opposite; entertainment and "blowing off steam" tends to lower our tendency towards violence, and I do have some general observations over time that supports this.

Again, I agree and disagree. For most people fantasy can be a valid and safe way to exorcise antisocial impulses, but there are people for which certain fantasies only serve as fuel for the boiler pressure within rather than as a relief valve -- the fantasies don't create that damage, but they can aggravate it and sometimes disastrously trigger it. It's unfair to assume fantasy is always a direct precursor or indicator of reality, but it's naive to treat them as completely separate and unconnected; one has to get down to brass tacks about specific people before one can make judgements in either direction this way.

TBP's error, as above, is to think it's both possible and morally obligatory to prevent people taking the discussion of fantasy topics to unhealthy directions or extremes by prohibiting any discussion of all of certain topics, on the grounds there can't possibly be enough "healthy" use of them to justify permitting it even in a fantasy environment. This, again, I reject on the grounds that it's a pre-emptive assumption of the worst possible context, without taking specific individuals into account.

What exactly raises red flags in entertainment?

A number of film franchises dwell on topics resembling torture porn. I know several people who wanted to see the movie Cannibal Holocaust because it is supposed to be one of the most extreme, offensive, shocking, and disgusting films ever made. The Gor RPG does have sex slaves (I’m pretty sure based on the source material). I’m not going to tell people not to play it, because next thing you know, someone will come after the games I actually like.

Conversely, one of the world’s worst mass murderers (Breivik) was indeed hooked on some video games, and that fact was much published, but they were completely normal shooter games.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on November 14, 2021, 11:25:07 AM
Oh and before someone objects “what about a movie like Cuties”? Notice that I mentioned talking and drawings earlier, not actual illegal actions or actions that potentially should be illegal, like involving kids in the production of ….whatever that film is.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on November 14, 2021, 09:45:20 PM
The only objectively offensive thing in Cannibal Holocaust is that the animal slayings are real - but the moviemakers objected that they filmed animal killings by indigenous tribes that would have happened anyway (Apocalypse Now used the same excuse). Most famously, the killings of the "actors" of the "movie within the movie" were so realistic (and the special effects so ingenious for the time) that a judge in Milan ordered to the production to show the actors in court and to re-enact some special effects (one of them, used to show the "impaling" of a woman, is so ingenious that I had no clue about how they did it until I read the explanation).

Re: Cuties it is a strong wannabe movie that wants to be "socially important" but doesn't reach above the level of "meh". And, yes, all the objectionable content is on the screen. I have nothing against *the idea* of 11 years old girls performing sexual dances in a movie: after all you need to portray what you are denouncing. There are, however, 100 cinematic techniques to *convey* the idea without showing it explicitly. There is no nudity, true, but the young girls dress and move in a very sexually explicit way right in front of the camera, and for very long sequences. I was amazed: literally, what were they thinking? ::)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on November 15, 2021, 01:10:25 AM

Re: Cuties it is a strong wannabe movie that wants to be "socially important" but doesn't reach above the level of "meh". And, yes, all the objectionable content is on the screen. I have nothing against *the idea* of 11 years old girls performing sexual dances in a movie: after all you need to portray what you are denouncing. There are, however, 100 cinematic techniques to *convey* the idea without showing it explicitly. There is no nudity, true, but the young girls dress and move in a very sexually explicit way right in front of the camera, and for very long sequences. I was amazed: literally, what were they thinking? ::)

What they were thinking is that America was ready for “preteen girls want to fuck”. They outright said it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 15, 2021, 07:51:41 AM

Re: Cuties it is a strong wannabe movie that wants to be "socially important" but doesn't reach above the level of "meh". And, yes, all the objectionable content is on the screen. I have nothing against *the idea* of 11 years old girls performing sexual dances in a movie: after all you need to portray what you are denouncing. There are, however, 100 cinematic techniques to *convey* the idea without showing it explicitly. There is no nudity, true, but the young girls dress and move in a very sexually explicit way right in front of the camera, and for very long sequences. I was amazed: literally, what were they thinking? ::)

What they were thinking is that America was ready for “preteen girls want to fuck”. They outright said it.
Let's be honest, it's the same mindset that thought it would be a good idea for the San Francisco PedoGay Men's Choir to sing a song about how 'they're coming to convert your children'.

I mean, holy shit, nobody stopped and said 'You know, this really might not be a good idea'?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on November 15, 2021, 08:53:22 AM

Re: Cuties it is a strong wannabe movie that wants to be "socially important" but doesn't reach above the level of "meh". And, yes, all the objectionable content is on the screen. I have nothing against *the idea* of 11 years old girls performing sexual dances in a movie: after all you need to portray what you are denouncing. There are, however, 100 cinematic techniques to *convey* the idea without showing it explicitly. There is no nudity, true, but the young girls dress and move in a very sexually explicit way right in front of the camera, and for very long sequences. I was amazed: literally, what were they thinking? ::)

What they were thinking is that America was ready for “preteen girls want to fuck”. They outright said it.
Let's be honest, it's the same mindset that thought it would be a good idea for the San Francisco PedoGay Men's Choir to sing a song about how 'they're coming to convert your children'.

I mean, holy shit, nobody stopped and said 'You know, this really might not be a good idea'?

Which is the same mindset that considers it acceptable to have what is essentially child porn being taught as part of sex ed. classes in schools.  Same mindset that claims rioting is ok but self-defense isn't.  Same mindset that teaches kids that they have to be oppressors or oppressed.  Same mindset that... Well, you already get the idea.

We've continued to be extremely tolerant of extreme left ideas to the point that we've given them an inch and they want 10,000 miles.  Those in positions of authority are afraid to push back for fear of being labeled as intolerant.  No - I've think we've been more than tolerant enough already. Instead of worrying about labels, the response needs to be one of ridicule that leftists would expect that their fucked-up ideas would be accepted to begin with.

I mean, who looks at "hey let's have drag queens read stories to elementary school kids" and goes, "oh, ok. Yeah that makes total sense" other than the mentally ill or the weak-minded? Or someone who says "I'm this other thing that I've invented to feel better about my mental illness that isn't male or female." You either have a penis or you have a vagina.  It doesn't matter what you think you are - that's opinion rather than objective fact.  The *rare* true hermaphrodite is just that - rare.  No one has to acquiesce to your fucked-up belief that you're a female who likes to dress up in male furry animal costumes who is attracted to males that dress up like women somehow makes you not a female...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 15, 2021, 09:34:22 AM
You know, when I was a kid, I wanted to be trans. Transformers, that is.

Ch-ch-ch-ch! *runs around with his arms out like an airplane*

Of course, I was also ten years old.

This kind of supports the idea that a lot of these people have severely arrested development. I'm not talking just 'still collects MtG cards and Transformer toys as a hobby, when he's not busting his ass at work'. A lot of these weirdos... it's like they never grasped basic ideas like work ethic, or wanting to do a good job, or just being yourself. I grant a lot of us have had a long hard road to learning to like the person in the mirror, and we all have flaws, but these are people who never learned these lessons. So now they're empty shells, desperate to fill it with something, ANYTHING.

Back to the topic, here's the explanation for why ACKS and Alex Macris are now Voldemort at TBP: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/acks-autarch-added-to-forbidden-topics-list.830945/

I'd like to address something about this:
Quote
The posts that Macris was responding to were made by RPGnet volunteers who were acting in their personal capacity as regular posters to this board; they offered their personal opinions on Macris' political allegiances primarily based on his association with Milo Yiannopoulos and used that to suggest that gamers shouldn't support Macris' roleplaying concerns.
Sure they did, Shannon. It's well known that mods on TBP solely speak on their own behalf and do not represent the official views of the forum-- okay, I can't get through that without laughing. What a load of shit. TBP got too close to the sun with their bitching, and got burned. Oh dear.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2021, 09:42:26 AM

Re: Cuties it is a strong wannabe movie that wants to be "socially important" but doesn't reach above the level of "meh". And, yes, all the objectionable content is on the screen. I have nothing against *the idea* of 11 years old girls performing sexual dances in a movie: after all you need to portray what you are denouncing. There are, however, 100 cinematic techniques to *convey* the idea without showing it explicitly. There is no nudity, true, but the young girls dress and move in a very sexually explicit way right in front of the camera, and for very long sequences. I was amazed: literally, what were they thinking? ::)

What they were thinking is that America was ready for “preteen girls want to fuck”. They outright said it.
Let's be honest, it's the same mindset that thought it would be a good idea for the San Francisco PedoGay Men's Choir to sing a song about how 'they're coming to convert your children'.

I mean, holy shit, nobody stopped and said 'You know, this really might not be a good idea'?

Welp, I get to be the resident Cuties defender again. The film clearly and unambiguously portrayed the girls copying adult dances as inappropriate and unacceptable for their age. Adults in the audience at the competition were horrified when their dance routine got out of hand.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on November 15, 2021, 10:15:13 AM

Re: Cuties it is a strong wannabe movie that wants to be "socially important" but doesn't reach above the level of "meh". And, yes, all the objectionable content is on the screen. I have nothing against *the idea* of 11 years old girls performing sexual dances in a movie: after all you need to portray what you are denouncing. There are, however, 100 cinematic techniques to *convey* the idea without showing it explicitly. There is no nudity, true, but the young girls dress and move in a very sexually explicit way right in front of the camera, and for very long sequences. I was amazed: literally, what were they thinking? ::)

What they were thinking is that America was ready for “preteen girls want to fuck”. They outright said it.
Let's be honest, it's the same mindset that thought it would be a good idea for the San Francisco PedoGay Men's Choir to sing a song about how 'they're coming to convert your children'.

I mean, holy shit, nobody stopped and said 'You know, this really might not be a good idea'?

Welp, I get to be the resident Cuties defender again. The film clearly and unambiguously portrayed the girls copying adult dances as inappropriate and unacceptable for their age. Adults in the audience at the competition were horrified when their dance routine got out of hand.

Doesn't change the fact that you don't need to *show* inappropriate content to make the argument it is inappropriate.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2021, 10:38:36 AM

Re: Cuties it is a strong wannabe movie that wants to be "socially important" but doesn't reach above the level of "meh". And, yes, all the objectionable content is on the screen. I have nothing against *the idea* of 11 years old girls performing sexual dances in a movie: after all you need to portray what you are denouncing. There are, however, 100 cinematic techniques to *convey* the idea without showing it explicitly. There is no nudity, true, but the young girls dress and move in a very sexually explicit way right in front of the camera, and for very long sequences. I was amazed: literally, what were they thinking? ::)

What they were thinking is that America was ready for “preteen girls want to fuck”. They outright said it.
Let's be honest, it's the same mindset that thought it would be a good idea for the San Francisco PedoGay Men's Choir to sing a song about how 'they're coming to convert your children'.

I mean, holy shit, nobody stopped and said 'You know, this really might not be a good idea'?

Welp, I get to be the resident Cuties defender again. The film clearly and unambiguously portrayed the girls copying adult dances as inappropriate and unacceptable for their age. Adults in the audience at the competition were horrified when their dance routine got out of hand.

Doesn't change the fact that you don't need to *show* inappropriate content to make the argument it is inappropriate.

No, but films do this all the time. Scenes of rape and murder. I was far more squicked out by the scene in Gerald's Game that showed a father masturbating while his daughter sat in his lap while watching an eclipse.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 15, 2021, 12:35:32 PM

Re: Cuties it is a strong wannabe movie that wants to be "socially important" but doesn't reach above the level of "meh". And, yes, all the objectionable content is on the screen. I have nothing against *the idea* of 11 years old girls performing sexual dances in a movie: after all you need to portray what you are denouncing. There are, however, 100 cinematic techniques to *convey* the idea without showing it explicitly. There is no nudity, true, but the young girls dress and move in a very sexually explicit way right in front of the camera, and for very long sequences. I was amazed: literally, what were they thinking? ::)

What they were thinking is that America was ready for “preteen girls want to fuck”. They outright said it.
Let's be honest, it's the same mindset that thought it would be a good idea for the San Francisco PedoGay Men's Choir to sing a song about how 'they're coming to convert your children'.

I mean, holy shit, nobody stopped and said 'You know, this really might not be a good idea'?

Welp, I get to be the resident Cuties defender again. The film clearly and unambiguously portrayed the girls copying adult dances as inappropriate and unacceptable for their age. Adults in the audience at the competition were horrified when their dance routine got out of hand.

Doesn't change the fact that you don't need to *show* inappropriate content to make the argument it is inappropriate.

No, but films do this all the time. Scenes of rape and murder. I was far more squicked out by the scene in Gerald's Game that showed a father masturbating while his daughter sat in his lap while watching an eclipse.
I’ve not heard of Gerald’s Game. I think it goes immediately into my Will Never Watch list.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on November 15, 2021, 02:13:58 PM

Let's be honest, it's the same mindset that thought it would be a good idea for the San Francisco PedoGay Men's Choir to sing a song about how 'they're coming to convert your children'.

I mean, holy shit, nobody stopped and said 'You know, this really might not be a good idea'?

In so many cases a lot of this stuff is not about anything but getting away with passive aggressive bullshit (and more recently openly aggressive bullshit). Same with all the crap they say about white men (as if black men are any better). The way a lot of it is phrased, packaged, or presented is so obviously not trying to make anything better in any way shape or form. It's a bit like what Jordan Peterson said about Hitler, if what you do tends to lead to destruction, perhaps that was what you aimed for all along.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on November 15, 2021, 04:16:48 PM

Re: Cuties it is a strong wannabe movie that wants to be "socially important" but doesn't reach above the level of "meh". And, yes, all the objectionable content is on the screen. I have nothing against *the idea* of 11 years old girls performing sexual dances in a movie: after all you need to portray what you are denouncing. There are, however, 100 cinematic techniques to *convey* the idea without showing it explicitly. There is no nudity, true, but the young girls dress and move in a very sexually explicit way right in front of the camera, and for very long sequences. I was amazed: literally, what were they thinking? ::)

What they were thinking is that America was ready for “preteen girls want to fuck”. They outright said it.
Let's be honest, it's the same mindset that thought it would be a good idea for the San Francisco PedoGay Men's Choir to sing a song about how 'they're coming to convert your children'.

I mean, holy shit, nobody stopped and said 'You know, this really might not be a good idea'?

Welp, I get to be the resident Cuties defender again. The film clearly and unambiguously portrayed the girls copying adult dances as inappropriate and unacceptable for their age. Adults in the audience at the competition were horrified when their dance routine got out of hand.

My main problem with "Cuties" is that it is not a good movie at all. It is boring, shallow and unfocused. On the top of it the underage sexual content is explicit. In a way, it gave to the movie a visibility that it doesn't deserves. Had they shot the sexual content in an appropriate manner it would still remain a solid "meh".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 16, 2021, 10:20:20 AM
Paradim eats a month for having the nerve to question racial subtexts in the Rittenhouse case.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/paradim-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-racism.889645/

Oh, Paradim. You should know better.

EDIT: The thread posts regarding Rittenhouse are also amazingly bitter and unhappy. Cope and seethe, TBP.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 16, 2021, 10:56:12 AM
Paradim eats a month for having the nerve to question racial subtexts in the Rittenhouse case.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/paradim-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-racism.889645/

Oh, Paradim. You should know better.

EDIT: The thread posts regarding Rittenhouse are also amazingly bitter and unhappy. Cope and seethe, TBP.
The danger is every thread at TBP can be suddenly treated as an “A-game” thread if even a part of the discussion runs counter to a mod’s preferred narrative. Paradim was speaking to the specific lack of charges related to crossing state lines, and how even if Rittenhouse was black the prosecution wouldn’t be able to make a charge related to crossing state lines. Noting that Rittenhouse’s attorneys may have mounted a strong defense in a trial runs counter to the mod’s goodthink that no such defense could be mounted as that would preclude them being able to solely blame racism if Rittenhouse is found not guilty. Anything that looks like badthink has to be punished and made forbidden at TBP. It doesn’t matter that several leftist commentators have noted that Rittenhouse’s attorneys have mounted a strong defense, that very possibility must be discounted by the mods.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 16, 2021, 02:35:47 PM
EDIT: The thread posts regarding Rittenhouse are also amazingly bitter and unhappy. Cope and seethe, TBP.
That’s one are where we differ. Within the insane constraints of TBP I’m trying to prick the bubble of their echo chamber, so that if an acquittal (and that seems a strong possibility) does occur that some of the members at TBP don’t lose their shit to the point of needing to call a suicide hotline. A lot of them are still of a mind that Rittenhouse committed a crime crossing a state line. The more even the idea that an acquittal can occur I think the better able they’ll be able to handle it. The latest misconception I’ve seen over there is that the possession charge was dropped because the court allowed him to use a hunting exemption (“OMG, the racist court is saying it’s legal to hunt and kill liberals!”), when what’s happened is that the judge decided to stick with a strict and literal reading of the law. It wasn’t clear at the start of the trial that thr judge would.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 16, 2021, 02:43:43 PM
EDIT: The thread posts regarding Rittenhouse are also amazingly bitter and unhappy. Cope and seethe, TBP.
That’s one are where we differ. Within the insane constraints of TBP I’m trying to prick the bubble of their echo chamber, so that if an acquittal (and that seems a strong possibility) does occur that some of the members at TBP don’t lose their shit to the point of needing to call a suicide hotline. A lot of them are still of a mind that Rittenhouse committed a crime crossing a state line. The more even the idea that an acquittal can occur I think the better able they’ll be able to handle it. The latest misconception I’ve seen over there is that the possession charge was dropped because the court allowed him to use a hunting exemption (“OMG, the racist court is saying it’s legal to hunt and kill liberals!”), when what’s happened is that the judge decided to stick with a strict and literal reading of the law. It wasn’t clear at the start of the trial that thr judge would.
I bear you no ill will and wish you the best of luck.

But I'm not gonna hold my breath either.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 16, 2021, 02:55:40 PM
EDIT: The thread posts regarding Rittenhouse are also amazingly bitter and unhappy. Cope and seethe, TBP.
That’s one are where we differ. Within the insane constraints of TBP I’m trying to prick the bubble of their echo chamber, so that if an acquittal (and that seems a strong possibility) does occur that some of the members at TBP don’t lose their shit to the point of needing to call a suicide hotline. A lot of them are still of a mind that Rittenhouse committed a crime crossing a state line. The more even the idea that an acquittal can occur I think the better able they’ll be able to handle it. The latest misconception I’ve seen over there is that the possession charge was dropped because the court allowed him to use a hunting exemption (“OMG, the racist court is saying it’s legal to hunt and kill liberals!”), when what’s happened is that the judge decided to stick with a strict and literal reading of the law. It wasn’t clear at the start of the trial that thr judge would.
I bear you no ill will and wish you the best of luck.

But I'm not gonna hold my breath either.
Thank you. I’m sure at some point I’ll get the Rule 0 treatment, but it’s hard to not attempt to stop them from driving off a cliff. I have no illusions about changing their overall worldview, but everyone would be better off the more they can even conceive of a different worldview that they cannot simply and automatically dismiss as badthink.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on November 16, 2021, 03:06:42 PM
EDIT: The thread posts regarding Rittenhouse are also amazingly bitter and unhappy. Cope and seethe, TBP.
That’s one are where we differ. Within the insane constraints of TBP I’m trying to prick the bubble of their echo chamber, so that if an acquittal (and that seems a strong possibility) does occur that some of the members at TBP don’t lose their shit to the point of needing to call a suicide hotline. A lot of them are still of a mind that Rittenhouse committed a crime crossing a state line. The more even the idea that an acquittal can occur I think the better able they’ll be able to handle it. The latest misconception I’ve seen over there is that the possession charge was dropped because the court allowed him to use a hunting exemption (“OMG, the racist court is saying it’s legal to hunt and kill liberals!”), when what’s happened is that the judge decided to stick with a strict and literal reading of the law. It wasn’t clear at the start of the trial that thr judge would.
I bear you no ill will and wish you the best of luck.

But I'm not gonna hold my breath either.
Thank you. I’m sure at some point I’ll get the Rule 0 treatment, but it’s hard to not attempt to stop them from driving off a cliff. I have no illusions about changing their overall worldview, but everyone would be better off the more they can even conceive of a different worldview that they cannot simply and automatically dismiss as badthink.

Greetings!

I hope everyone over at TBP drive themselves off a cliff when Rittenhouse is acquitted in court. I hope they all have seizures of rage and absolute despair. Let them weep, and sob hysterically, and gnash their teeth with endless impotency and anguish.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 16, 2021, 03:16:15 PM
EDIT: The thread posts regarding Rittenhouse are also amazingly bitter and unhappy. Cope and seethe, TBP.
That’s one are where we differ. Within the insane constraints of TBP I’m trying to prick the bubble of their echo chamber, so that if an acquittal (and that seems a strong possibility) does occur that some of the members at TBP don’t lose their shit to the point of needing to call a suicide hotline. A lot of them are still of a mind that Rittenhouse committed a crime crossing a state line. The more even the idea that an acquittal can occur I think the better able they’ll be able to handle it. The latest misconception I’ve seen over there is that the possession charge was dropped because the court allowed him to use a hunting exemption (“OMG, the racist court is saying it’s legal to hunt and kill liberals!”), when what’s happened is that the judge decided to stick with a strict and literal reading of the law. It wasn’t clear at the start of the trial that thr judge would.

Their bubble has morphed into a giant solid iron sphere. We've seen people try to talk sense into them, and it only results in a ban and a double down (triple down, quadruple down...) on their stance.

I'm not saying, don't try. But I am saying don't get your hopes up.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on November 16, 2021, 03:25:41 PM
EDIT: The thread posts regarding Rittenhouse are also amazingly bitter and unhappy. Cope and seethe, TBP.
That’s one are where we differ. Within the insane constraints of TBP I’m trying to prick the bubble of their echo chamber, so that if an acquittal (and that seems a strong possibility) does occur that some of the members at TBP don’t lose their shit to the point of needing to call a suicide hotline. A lot of them are still of a mind that Rittenhouse committed a crime crossing a state line. The more even the idea that an acquittal can occur I think the better able they’ll be able to handle it. The latest misconception I’ve seen over there is that the possession charge was dropped because the court allowed him to use a hunting exemption (“OMG, the racist court is saying it’s legal to hunt and kill liberals!”), when what’s happened is that the judge decided to stick with a strict and literal reading of the law. It wasn’t clear at the start of the trial that thr judge would.

Their bubble has morphed into a giant solid iron sphere. We've seen people try to talk sense into them, and it only results in a ban and a double down (triple down, quadruple down...) on their stance.

I'm not saying, don't try. But I am saying don't get your hopes up.

When is their domain name up for renewal?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 16, 2021, 04:00:55 PM
I think this is approaching black-and-white thinking. Who wants to play a black game where all evils are ruled in? But, a game can be gray. One might purchase slaves to redeem them, but then never have the opportunity to do so, and find oneself obliged to sell them at a later date. Then one is technically a slave-trader, even though one had the best of intentions.

True. But the difference there is between what a game's setting makes possible for particular groups, and what its rules or basic assumptions encourage or mandate for players in general.

TBP is operating on the assumption that allowing the former amounts to the latter. I'm pointing out that it's a consistent position to object to the latter while still allowing room for the former.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 16, 2021, 04:25:10 PM
What exactly raises red flags in entertainment?

A number of film franchises dwell on topics resembling torture porn. I know several people who wanted to see the movie Cannibal Holocaust because it is supposed to be one of the most extreme, offensive, shocking, and disgusting films ever made. The Gor RPG does have sex slaves (I’m pretty sure based on the source material). I’m not going to tell people not to play it, because next thing you know, someone will come after the games I actually like.

Veering away from the Cuties sub-topic and back towards RPGs specifically, I'd observe that one critical difference between books and movies vs. RPGs is that the latter involve active, participatory choices on the players' part; they're not just watching the protagonists' choices and the consequences, they're making those choices and deriving reward from those consequences -- on an imaginary and vicarious level only, it is true, but the type of psychological engagement is different.

The psychological reward can be different as well. Your example of the PC who is only technically a "slave-trader" through an unsuccessful attempt to free purchased slaves would be different from a player who engaged in the activity solely to make his PC rich, especially if that player (through his PC) appeared to be gleefully enjoying the fantasy of treating his imaginary slaves as badly or worse than real slavers treated their captives. Because it's all still wholly imaginary, there cannot really be an objective moral criticism of the second PC's actions or their consequences, but the slaver PC's player can't really claim surprise or insult when most people find that kind of fantasy repellent and offputting, either.

So I suppose the red flags are less a matter strictly of content in the entertainment, and more a matter of how the content is depicted, as well as what's observed when particular people interact with particular types of content. To depict is not to endorse, but some creative products do go as far as they can to endorse things without explicitly saying so, simply by virtue of the assumptions and actions they attribute to (ostensibly) sympathetic protagonists.  Any game or story has to have an antagonist/villain; it's when the games/stories treat the protagonists' ends as justifying means like those of the antagonist/villain that counts as a red flag, for me. (And even a red flag is only a warning, not a judgement.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 16, 2021, 04:30:40 PM
EDIT: The thread posts regarding Rittenhouse are also amazingly bitter and unhappy. Cope and seethe, TBP.
That’s one are where we differ. Within the insane constraints of TBP I’m trying to prick the bubble of their echo chamber, so that if an acquittal (and that seems a strong possibility) does occur that some of the members at TBP don’t lose their shit to the point of needing to call a suicide hotline. A lot of them are still of a mind that Rittenhouse committed a crime crossing a state line. The more even the idea that an acquittal can occur I think the better able they’ll be able to handle it. The latest misconception I’ve seen over there is that the possession charge was dropped because the court allowed him to use a hunting exemption (“OMG, the racist court is saying it’s legal to hunt and kill liberals!”), when what’s happened is that the judge decided to stick with a strict and literal reading of the law. It wasn’t clear at the start of the trial that thr judge would.

Their bubble has morphed into a giant solid iron sphere. We've seen people try to talk sense into them, and it only results in a ban and a double down (triple down, quadruple down...) on their stance.

I'm not saying, don't try. But I am saying don't get your hopes up.

When is their domain name up for renewal?

*shrug*
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on November 16, 2021, 06:01:37 PM
EDIT: The thread posts regarding Rittenhouse are also amazingly bitter and unhappy. Cope and seethe, TBP.
That’s one are where we differ. Within the insane constraints of TBP I’m trying to prick the bubble of their echo chamber, so that if an acquittal (and that seems a strong possibility) does occur that some of the members at TBP don’t lose their shit to the point of needing to call a suicide hotline. A lot of them are still of a mind that Rittenhouse committed a crime crossing a state line. The more even the idea that an acquittal can occur I think the better able they’ll be able to handle it. The latest misconception I’ve seen over there is that the possession charge was dropped because the court allowed him to use a hunting exemption (“OMG, the racist court is saying it’s legal to hunt and kill liberals!”), when what’s happened is that the judge decided to stick with a strict and literal reading of the law. It wasn’t clear at the start of the trial that thr judge would.

Their bubble has morphed into a giant solid iron sphere. We've seen people try to talk sense into them, and it only results in a ban and a double down (triple down, quadruple down...) on their stance.

I'm not saying, don't try. But I am saying don't get your hopes up.

Well, I am saying “don’t try!” These are people (technically) that know that not only are aware of being in a bubble that bans unapproved thoughts, but they praise said bubble.

Jesus Christ Himself said not to throw what is precious to swine, because the swine will trample them. Then you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on November 16, 2021, 06:04:42 PM
Thank you. I’m sure at some point I’ll get the Rule 0 treatment, but it’s hard to not attempt to stop them from driving off a cliff.

In my experience, trying to stop someone from driving off a cliff only ends up with you off the same cliff. Just stop and enjoy the show.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 16, 2021, 06:21:05 PM
Thank you. I’m sure at some point I’ll get the Rule 0 treatment, but it’s hard to not attempt to stop them from driving off a cliff.

In my experience, trying to stop someone from driving off a cliff only ends up with you off the same cliff. Just stop and enjoy the show.
You might be correct. As I posted in the trial thread there are posters at TBP that somehow believe the people Rittenhouse shot were black. The echo chamber they’ve formed may indeed be made of iron. How in the world anyone could be so misinformed is beyond my comprehension.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mostly-us-non-election-law-stuff-megathread-iii-more-things-you-never-want-to-hear-a-judge-say.883092/post-24131826
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on November 16, 2021, 11:06:07 PM
I appear to have caught a ban for calling Rosenbaum a Pedo, Huber a Domestic Abuser and Grosskreutz a Burglar.

Quote
...for the following reasons: Rules Violations.

Hahaha ha. That's not a reason.  1 week.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Neoplatonist1 on November 16, 2021, 11:23:03 PM
I think this is approaching black-and-white thinking. Who wants to play a black game where all evils are ruled in? But, a game can be gray. One might purchase slaves to redeem them, but then never have the opportunity to do so, and find oneself obliged to sell them at a later date. Then one is technically a slave-trader, even though one had the best of intentions.

True. But the difference there is between what a game's setting makes possible for particular groups, and what its rules or basic assumptions encourage or mandate for players in general.

TBP is operating on the assumption that allowing the former amounts to the latter. I'm pointing out that it's a consistent position to object to the latter while still allowing room for the former.

I think we agree, then.

Some more musing:

I recall a game, Circus Imperium or somesuch set in the Renegade Legion universe, where you as charioteer had the option of whipping your beasts to get them to run faster. Each time you whipped your beasts, a roll was made to see if they turned on you and ate you. Black humor, baked in, but can one object?

What about the infinite number of war games (board games, I mean) where we used to jest about how we're sending some more canon fodder infantry into the fray. Again, baked in. I'm not even analyzing videogames with their unending queue of ritually acceptable killables.

Or that board game, Blood Royale, where the royal families can make rolls to see how many children the queen can pump out in a five year span without dying.

A pirate game where pirates sack towns and take treasure and slaves sounds about the same level of odium as that card game where the players portray pimps with their stables of sex slaves.* I'd rather play the pirate game.

* I recall the RPGnet fascists saying things like, "If you can't distinguish between a game featuring Hollywood pimps and the Holocaust, I can't pity you enough" They're full of pity, that lot.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on November 16, 2021, 11:42:46 PM
I appear to have caught a ban for calling Rosenbaum a Pedo, Huber a Domestic Abuser and Grosskreutz a Burglar.

Quote
...for the following reasons: Rules Violations.

Hahaha ha. That's not a reason.  1 week.

The Kenosha Hat Trick!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on November 16, 2021, 11:58:47 PM
I appear to have caught a ban for calling Rosenbaum a Pedo, Huber a Domestic Abuser and Grosskreutz a Burglar.

Quote
...for the following reasons: Rules Violations.

Hahaha ha. That's not a reason.  1 week.

The Kenosha Hat Trick!

3 random Antifa are polled and all 3 are felonious scumbags. It's almost like there's a Type, or something.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 17, 2021, 06:14:44 AM
Supposedly, they found guy #4, aka 'Jump Kick Man'.

To absolutely no one's surprise, he was out on probation following a conviction for domestic violence, and he's got a nice long rap sheet.

I mean, this is almost ludicrous. Everyone who was attacking Rittenhouse and was subsequently shot at is turning out to be at best contemptible and at worse 'born to hang'. If you'd slotted this angle into a story I'd have laughed it off as unrealistic.

I want to address something from Funkadelic's sanctimonious snark at DM Curt here.

Quote
People's past behavior, doesn't excuse shooting them in the street.
No, it doesn't, but at the same time certain lefties really need to rethink this painting of people as 'heroes'.

They weren't heroes. They were NEVER heroes. Their actions, right up until they were shot, were not heroic.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Godfather Punk on November 17, 2021, 06:51:43 AM
Quote
People's past behavior, doesn't excuse shooting them in the street.
But people's 10-year old juvenile blog posts justify cancelling them and running them out of the industry/hobby...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on November 17, 2021, 07:17:27 AM
I appear to have caught a ban for calling Rosenbaum a Pedo, Huber a Domestic Abuser and Grosskreutz a Burglar.

Quote
...for the following reasons: Rules Violations.

Hahaha ha. That's not a reason.  1 week.

The Kenosha Hat Trick!

Lmfao! What Tucker Carlson said about the guy was even more hilarious.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 17, 2021, 09:46:11 AM
Quote
People's past behavior, doesn't excuse shooting them in the street.
But people's 10-year old juvenile blog posts justify cancelling them and running them out of the industry/hobby...

Take a Win-the-Internet point, if you collect them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 17, 2021, 10:11:29 AM
I recall a game, Circus Imperium or somesuch set in the Renegade Legion universe, where you as charioteer had the option of whipping your beasts to get them to run faster. Each time you whipped your beasts, a roll was made to see if they turned on you and ate you. Black humor, baked in, but can one object?

Well, at least the beasts get a chance to get their own back at you. That redresses my sense of justice somewhat. :)

Quote
...A pirate game where pirates sack towns and take treasure and slaves sounds about the same level of odium as that card game where the players portray pimps with their stables of sex slaves.* I'd rather play the pirate game.

Or Cards Against Humanity, which is deliberately structured to create amusement through completing phrases as offensively as possible. I've never played it myself, but I can easily imagine hitting some card combo that would squick me out enough to seriously mitigate the fun factor (and if I suspected another player was picking combos in a deliberate attempt to offend me personally, that would be reason enough never to play with that person again).

(In case nobody has noticed, I have a very large streak of priggish prude in my nature, but I at least try to admit it and compensate for it.)

It basically comes down to a fundamental question: Should seriously immoral or criminal activities be treated as fit subjects for jokes or sympathetic entertainment, especially if the result of doing so is at best to teach audiences to dismiss those issues as insignificant, and at worst may actually wind up encouraging audiences to partake in them?  One can wholly support the right of free speech that says no law should attempt to restrict this, while still making an argument for supporting cultural mores that discourage it. I have no problem with a game like Pimp! existing, so long as it has the appropriate warning labels, it isn't sold to children, and I have the right to say what I think of it and to ignore its fans gushing about it without putting my freedom or livelihood at stake.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on November 17, 2021, 10:23:12 AM
I recall a game, Circus Imperium or somesuch set in the Renegade Legion universe, where you as charioteer had the option of whipping your beasts to get them to run faster. Each time you whipped your beasts, a roll was made to see if they turned on you and ate you. Black humor, baked in, but can one object?

Well, at least the beasts get a chance to get their own back at you. That redresses my sense of justice somewhat. :)

Quote
...A pirate game where pirates sack towns and take treasure and slaves sounds about the same level of odium as that card game where the players portray pimps with their stables of sex slaves.* I'd rather play the pirate game.

Or Cards Against Humanity, which is deliberately structured to create amusement through completing phrases as offensively as possible. I've never played it myself, but I can easily imagine hitting some card combo that would squick me out enough to seriously mitigate the fun factor (and if I suspected another player was picking combos in a deliberate attempt to offend me personally, that would be reason enough never to play with that person again).

(In case nobody has noticed, I have a very large streak of priggish prude in my nature, but I at least try to admit it and compensate for it.)

It basically comes down to a fundamental question: Should seriously immoral or criminal activities be treated as fit subjects for jokes or sympathetic entertainment, especially if the result of doing so is at best to teach audiences to dismiss those issues as insignificant, and at worst may actually wind up encouraging audiences to partake in them?  One can wholly support the right of free speech that says no law should attempt to restrict this, while still making an argument for supporting cultural mores that discourage it. I have no problem with a game like Pimp! existing, so long as it has the appropriate warning labels, it isn't sold to children, and I have the right to say what I think of it and to ignore its fans gushing about it without putting my freedom or livelihood at stake.

That's why games like Cards Against Humanity ( I have played it, you can get some seriously fucked-up results) should only be played by adults who (1) are mature enough to understand that trying to elicit a response for you to win that round isn't tacit approval of the concept associated with the result, and (2) by adults who are intelligent enough to be able to come up with fucked up concepts to begin with.

I recently played a game of CAH a few weeks ago.  During one round, the holder of the black card read off the phrase "She's up all night for romance, I'm up all night for ____." The winner of that round threw in a white card that read "...whatever you wish, mother.'

Seriously fucked up concepts involving the idea of a man sleeping with his own mother - but everyone playing already understands that it is intended to elicit the holder of the black card to pick the most humorous, disgusting, or twisted result of pairing the black card with the white card, not to elicit an acceptance or tolerance of, in this case, incest...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Neoplatonist1 on November 18, 2021, 11:23:55 AM
Or Cards Against Humanity, which is deliberately structured to create amusement through completing phrases as offensively as possible. I've never played it myself, but I can easily imagine hitting some card combo that would squick me out enough to seriously mitigate the fun factor (and if I suspected another player was picking combos in a deliberate attempt to offend me personally, that would be reason enough never to play with that person again).

Oh, that damned game. Yes, I've played it. I told my friends I never want to be exposed to that game again. Some people seem to think that any horridly disgusting thing is fair play so long at it's portrayed "ironically". A game like that is indeed against humanity.

Quote
(In case nobody has noticed, I have a very large streak of priggish prude in my nature, but I at least try to admit it and compensate for it.)

It basically comes down to a fundamental question: Should seriously immoral or criminal activities be treated as fit subjects for jokes or sympathetic entertainment, especially if the result of doing so is at best to teach audiences to dismiss those issues as insignificant, and at worst may actually wind up encouraging audiences to partake in them?  One can wholly support the right of free speech that says no law should attempt to restrict this, while still making an argument for supporting cultural mores that discourage it. I have no problem with a game like Pimp! existing, so long as it has the appropriate warning labels, it isn't sold to children, and I have the right to say what I think of it and to ignore its fans gushing about it without putting my freedom or livelihood at stake.

Yes, that's about it. Unless, we want to get Platonic about the thing and build our ideal republic, but, in that case, I fear that all gaming will be dispensed with. Until we get serious about that, then, in this matter I think we are agreed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 18, 2021, 03:02:03 PM
Some of you may remember that Silvercat Moonpaw ate a (frankly ridiculous) 30 day ban for pointing out how in some mythologies (Greek specifically) you made sacrifice to placate the gods.

This, of course, gave Bcaugust54 a fit of the vapors. https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/silvercat-moonpaw-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-group-attacks-involving-religion.888271/

Well, Silvercat had to roll up a new account to get staff's attention because mysteriously, his/her/whatever's password didn't work, and the password recovery system wasn't functioning.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/silvercat-moonpaw-who-is-me-cant-recover-their-password.889731/

How curious. I wouldn't comment normally but it resembles what happened with Justin Alexander.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Neoplatonist1 on November 18, 2021, 05:23:51 PM
Some of you may remember that Silvercat Moonpaw ate a (frankly ridiculous) 30 day ban for pointing out how in some mythologies (Greek specifically) you made sacrifice to placate the gods.

This, of course, gave Bcaugust54 a fit of the vapors. https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/silvercat-moonpaw-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-group-attacks-involving-religion.888271/

Well, Silvercat had to roll up a new account to get staff's attention because mysteriously, his/her/whatever's password didn't work, and the password recovery system wasn't functioning.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/silvercat-moonpaw-who-is-me-cant-recover-their-password.889731/

How curious. I wouldn't comment normally but it resembles what happened with Justin Alexander.

TPB love their mortarboard and pointing stick, don't they?

All they banned me for was asking whether a professional boxer could crack an attack dog's skull in a fight. I didn't last a week there.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 18, 2021, 06:29:11 PM
Oh, that damned game. Yes, I've played it. I told my friends I never want to be exposed to that game again. Some people seem to think that any horridly disgusting thing is fair play so long at it's portrayed "ironically". A game like that is indeed against humanity.

I'm a bit more wishy-washy myself. I can easily imagine being outraged by some combos, but I can also easily imagine finding some of them hysterically funny. The example provided on Wikipedia, for example, was (black card): "Here is the church / Here is the steeple / Open the door / And see _________", and (white card): "A debate with Richard Dawkins." I'm a Catholic who thinks very little of Dawkins as a philosopher and deeply resents the damage he's trying to do to religion, but I still had to stifle a snort at that one.

It may be a moral flaw to find offensive humour funny, but that's one of those motes I think very few people can completely get out of their own eyes first. Again, it comes down to a context of trust and good faith; it's exactly because people are assumed to be "in on the joke" with each other that members of particular groups can insult each other with group slurs and find it funny, but outsiders can't.

Critical Privilege Theory (to broaden it to its full range of context), which TBP has clearly committed to, takes as a foundational principle the refusal to assume good faith, hence the Critical part. Their mistake is the failure to realize that you can't build a community without at some point relying on assumed good faith.  Like the Dwarves in The Last Battle, they have become so determined not to be taken in by others' bad faith that they cannot be taken out of their own.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 19, 2021, 07:24:27 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/looking-for-well-worded-lines-of-reasoning-for-discussion-with-friend-who-believes-the-cancel-culture-is-a-threat-concept.889743/

At TBP they’ve moved from “There’s no such thing as Cancel Culture” to admitting cancel culture exists, but it’s not a threat. I suppose it’s a positive thing that they’re no longer trying to gaslight people that cancel culture doesn’t exist. It’s also sad that there are members who have to go to the internet to ask for help from their fellow members as to how to make an argument. It’s also pathetic that many of the respondents are “Woe is us, cancel culture mostly targets us lefties, if only we could cancel the normals!”
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on November 19, 2021, 01:46:21 PM
Are the woketards crying over on The Purple Shithole over the Rittenhouse verdict?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rgalex on November 19, 2021, 01:53:01 PM
Are the woketards crying over on The Purple Shithole over the Rittenhouse verdict?

Yep.

American Legal system is dead.  Burn it all down.

Being an idiot doesn't absolve someone of murder.

Sick of this damned country.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 19, 2021, 02:59:54 PM
Are the woketards crying over on The Purple Shithole over the Rittenhouse verdict?

Yep.

American Legal system is dead.  Burn it all down.

Being an idiot doesn't absolve someone of murder.

Sick of this damned country.
They locked the thread. Said they were getting a lot of reports. I was the only one that posted positively regarding the verdict, so 1 guess as to who is getting reported. I’m not sure what I’d be reported for. If they can’t find a violation I’m sure the mods will come up with a new rule. “No support for self-defense allowed on this forum!” Might be an approach they take.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on November 19, 2021, 03:14:39 PM
They could use Rule 0, which is “we don’t like you. “ They will more likely say that because you said something about someone who opposed BLM, you must be a RACIST.

It happened with someone critical of Facebook’s censorship. Even though that post writer explicitly said he did not like Trump, he was concerned about the precedent being set. They banned him because in their logic, being against someone that is acting against Trump is the same as supporting Trump which is the same as being a Nazi.

TLDR: your time there is over.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 19, 2021, 03:22:08 PM
They could use Rule 0, which is “we don’t like you. “ They will more likely say that because you said something about someone who opposed BLM, you must be a RACIST.

It happened with someone critical of Facebook’s censorship. Even though that post writer explicitly said he did not like Trump, he was concerned about the precedent being set. They banned him because in their logic, being against someone that is acting against Trump is the same as supporting Trump which is the same as being a Nazi.

TLDR: your time there is over.
Quite possibly. I know that anything I post there will be reviewed for any possible offense. I think I may refrain for a year or more to avoid providing any future violations if I’m on their radar. They may just decide to retroactively increase one of my previous infractions. I don’t have many infractions and they were a while ago, but whoever is reviewing any reports on me at TBP is hopefully going to put some creative effort into their justification. A Rule 0 ban would just be boring, but as far as I can tell I haven’t violated any of their rules.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on November 19, 2021, 03:26:48 PM
Quite possibly. I know that anything I post there will be reviewed for any possible offense. I think I may refrain for a year or more to avoid providing any future violations if I’m on their radar. They may just decide to retroactively increase one of my previous infractions. I don’t have many infractions and they were a while ago, but whoever is reviewing any reports on me at TBP is hopefully going to put some creative effort into their justification. A Rule 0 ban would just be boring, but as far as I can tell I haven’t violated any of their rules.

Careful, they sometimes use things you post over here as justification for a Rule 0 ban.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 19, 2021, 03:46:11 PM
Quite possibly. I know that anything I post there will be reviewed for any possible offense. I think I may refrain for a year or more to avoid providing any future violations if I’m on their radar. They may just decide to retroactively increase one of my previous infractions. I don’t have many infractions and they were a while ago, but whoever is reviewing any reports on me at TBP is hopefully going to put some creative effort into their justification. A Rule 0 ban would just be boring, but as far as I can tell I haven’t violated any of their rules.

Careful, they sometimes use things you post over here as justification for a Rule 0 ban.
I tried to make sure I followed the rules. My intent was to pierce any echo chamber (they have members who think Rittenhouse shot black people) they had on the Rittenhouse trial so that there’d be less of a meltdown over there. I’m positive if their echo chamber didn’t receive any pinpricks the meltdown would be worse. Sure many of their members are mad, but hopefully they’re less in shock.

If not for the pinpricks I think we’d be seeing some meltdowns similar to those by the Clinton supporters during the election night of 2016. My guy, Gary Johnson, lost, but it was also in my mind that a Trump victory was in the realm of possibility, so I wasn’t shocked when he won, but I had liberal friends who were traumatized. That wasn’t pleasant thing to see up close. So long as the TBP’s rules are followed they ought to be grateful that their echo chamber gets pierced on occasion. We shall see.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on November 19, 2021, 04:02:10 PM
Quite possibly. I know that anything I post there will be reviewed for any possible offense. I think I may refrain for a year or more to avoid providing any future violations if I’m on their radar. They may just decide to retroactively increase one of my previous infractions. I don’t have many infractions and they were a while ago, but whoever is reviewing any reports on me at TBP is hopefully going to put some creative effort into their justification. A Rule 0 ban would just be boring, but as far as I can tell I haven’t violated any of their rules.

Careful, they sometimes use things you post over here as justification for a Rule 0 ban.
I tried to make sure I followed the rules. My intent was to pierce any echo chamber (they have members who think Rittenhouse shot black people) they had on the Rittenhouse trial so that there’d be less of a meltdown over there. I’m positive if their echo chamber didn’t receive any pinpricks the meltdown would be worse. Sure many of their members are mad, but hopefully they’re less in shock.

If not for the pinpricks I think we’d be seeing some meltdowns similar to those by the Clinton supporters during the election night of 2016. My guy, Gary Johnson, lost, but it was also in my mind that a Trump victory was in the realm of possibility, so I wasn’t shocked when he won, but I had liberal friends who were traumatized. That wasn’t pleasant thing to see up close. So long as the TBP’s rules are followed they ought to be grateful that their echo chamber gets pierced on occasion. We shall see.

You can't fix stupid...  These people are unable to think on any level other than emotionally.  They're definitely all suffering from arrested development and when things don't go the way they want, they engage in tantrums.  Instead of caving in when they do the equivalent f threatening to his they're breath, let them hold it until they pass out.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 19, 2021, 05:29:20 PM
I'm currently getting HTTP 500 errors when trying to access TBP.

I wonder if they finally lost their minds.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on November 19, 2021, 05:59:09 PM
Are the woketards crying over on The Purple Shithole over the Rittenhouse verdict?

Yep.

American Legal system is dead.  Burn it all down.

Being an idiot doesn't absolve someone of murder.

Sick of this damned country.
They locked the thread. Said they were getting a lot of reports. I was the only one that posted positively regarding the verdict, so 1 guess as to who is getting reported. I’m not sure what I’d be reported for. If they can’t find a violation I’m sure the mods will come up with a new rule. “No support for self-defense allowed on this forum!” Might be an approach they take.
Probably reporting me, for calling the 3 shot "the pedophile, the domestic Abuser and the burglar". But Probably you too, just for having a different view.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on November 19, 2021, 06:05:07 PM
Probably reporting me, for calling the 3 shot "the pedophile, the domestic Abuser and the burglar". But Probably you too, just for having a different view.

Clearly you should have said "child rapist, wife-beater and thief".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on November 19, 2021, 07:14:31 PM
I'm currently getting HTTP 500 errors when trying to access TBP.

I wonder if they finally lost their minds.
I always get that when I have my VPN on; apparently they don't like it when one tries to kept them at arms length.

Also of note they closed the legal thread because it was a "hard verdict"?

I fail to see how a young man exercising his right to self defense and the jury exonerating him of all charges (BS ones at that) is a "hard verdict"? Then again we are talking about TBP.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on November 19, 2021, 07:41:59 PM
Probably reporting me, for calling the 3 shot "the pedophile, the domestic Abuser and the burglar". But Probably you too, just for having a different view.

Clearly you should have said "child rapist, wife-beater and thief".
I should have said "OMAP, Equality-based Melee Enthusiast and Social Redistributionist."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 19, 2021, 08:42:25 PM
This comment was particularly absurd, in response to your remarks: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mostly-us-non-election-law-stuff-megathread-iii-more-things-you-never-want-to-hear-a-judge-say.883092/post-24135729

Quote
Personally, I'm thinking of Michael Reinoehl, a Portland antifa supporter who also claimed self-defense in the protest-related shooting death of Aaron Danielson, a supporter of Patriot Prayer.

Mr. Reinoehl never made it to court. He was murdered by a federal fugitive task force, who reportedly didn't give him a chance to surrender. Witnesses describe them opening fire without warning, and despite the sheriff's office investigation determining he initiated a firefight with police, independent investigators determined that his weapon was fully loaded when recovered afterward, and there is no police account of his drawing or pointing a weapon.

I'm pleased Rittenhouse wasn't murdered by police in Kenosha after killing two people. I don't think he should be acquitted, especially since he was previously in a state of mind to protect property by shooting at protestors. I'm of the opinion that the people he killed were acting in self-defense against him, and that his acquittal is a travesty of justice.
He fucking assassinated Danielson. Walked up and shot him dead. And then decided to commit suicide by cop by trying to shoot it out with U.S. Marshals.

https://www.ibtimes.sg/cctv-footage-reveals-michael-reinoehl-stalked-jay-danielson-did-not-kill-self-defense-51183

These people live in an entirely different world. And I'm getting really tired of their gaslighting.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on November 21, 2021, 08:07:21 PM
This comment was particularly absurd, in response to your remarks: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mostly-us-non-election-law-stuff-megathread-iii-more-things-you-never-want-to-hear-a-judge-say.883092/post-24135729

Quote
Personally, I'm thinking of Michael Reinoehl, a Portland antifa supporter who also claimed self-defense in the protest-related shooting death of Aaron Danielson, a supporter of Patriot Prayer.

Mr. Reinoehl never made it to court. He was murdered by a federal fugitive task force, who reportedly didn't give him a chance to surrender. Witnesses describe them opening fire without warning, and despite the sheriff's office investigation determining he initiated a firefight with police, independent investigators determined that his weapon was fully loaded when recovered afterward, and there is no police account of his drawing or pointing a weapon.

I'm pleased Rittenhouse wasn't murdered by police in Kenosha after killing two people. I don't think he should be acquitted, especially since he was previously in a state of mind to protect property by shooting at protestors. I'm of the opinion that the people he killed were acting in self-defense against him, and that his acquittal is a travesty of justice.
He fucking assassinated Danielson. Walked up and shot him dead. And then decided to commit suicide by cop by trying to shoot it out with U.S. Marshals.

https://www.ibtimes.sg/cctv-footage-reveals-michael-reinoehl-stalked-jay-danielson-did-not-kill-self-defense-51183

These people live in an entirely different world. And I'm getting really tired of their gaslighting.

Everyone who isn't a mental defective leftist could clearly recognize the difference between Reinoehl ambushing Danielson and Rittenhouse running from his attackers before being forced to shoot them (including the 5-time pedo who tried to ambush him).  That, and ya know, Rittenhouse turned himself in instead of being the subject of a manhunt...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 22, 2021, 12:02:27 PM
This kind of cracked me up. https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/insane-price-of-medicine-in-usa.889895/

In essence, it's bitching about (a) the U.S. health care industry, and (b) costs of medications, particularly insulin.

What amuses me is over four pages, nobody has the nerve to point out that insulin's cost got capped by Trump, and then uncapped by Sleepy Joe.

Oops.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on November 22, 2021, 12:25:51 PM
This kind of cracked me up. https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/insane-price-of-medicine-in-usa.889895/

In essence, it's bitching about (a) the U.S. health care industry, and (b) costs of medications, particularly insulin.

What amuses me is over four pages, nobody has the nerve to point out that insulin's cost got capped by Trump, and then uncapped by Sleepy Joe.

Oops.

Of course they don't have the nerve. It's explicitly against the rules (as "RAAAACIIISSMMM") to defend or say anything positive about something Trump did. That's not hyperbole either; when someone asked in December of last year if they could start a thread about positive things he did, they were told that it would be racist to do so.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on November 22, 2021, 11:25:00 PM
Hey DM_Curt. I see they extended you the permaban. Congratulations! And welcome to the permabanned members club. Meetings are Tuesdays at six, bring your own drink of choice, and let's play some games :D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 23, 2021, 06:38:57 AM
Hey DM_Curt. I see they extended you the permaban. Congratulations! And welcome to the permabanned members club. Meetings are Tuesdays at six, bring your own drink of choice, and let's play some games :D
Right as the last seven day ban was due to expire too. Not a new tactic for the worthless meatbags that comprise TBP's staff.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 23, 2021, 08:41:33 AM
Hey DM_Curt. I see they extended you the permaban. Congratulations! And welcome to the permabanned members club. Meetings are Tuesdays at six, bring your own drink of choice, and let's play some games :D
Right as the last seven day ban was due to expire too. Not a new tactic for the worthless meatbags that comprise TBP's staff.
The initial ban made no mention of a potential increase in penalty. That tells me that the mod staff overall has been discussing the thread and are looking for whatever excuses they can to permaban for wrongthink. I’m not surprised that DM_Curt caught an initial 7-day ban for his post, but the mods are usually up front at the time of the initial ban if they’re going to take the matter “backstage” (a tell of the performative nature of TBP moderation) to determine if a longer penalty is going to be handed out. I won’t be surprised if at some point membership at this site becomes grounds for the mods to invoke their Rule 0.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 23, 2021, 09:28:17 AM
TBP still can't configure an email server properly: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/no-notifications-via-email.889911/

This doesn't surprise me much, but it amuses me that here at the end of 2021, RPGnet is staffed by people who might as well be trapped in 1997 from a technical perspective.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on November 23, 2021, 12:12:28 PM
The initial ban made no mention of a potential increase in penalty. That tells me that the mod staff overall has been discussing the thread and are looking for whatever excuses they can to permaban for wrongthink. I’m not surprised that DM_Curt caught an initial 7-day ban for his post, but the mods are usually up front at the time of the initial ban if they’re going to take the matter “backstage” (a tell of the performative nature of TBP moderation) to determine if a longer penalty is going to be handed out. I won’t be surprised if at some point membership at this site becomes grounds for the mods to invoke their Rule 0.

I think it already is. They have labeled us a hate site, after all.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: PonchoGoblin on November 24, 2021, 12:33:44 AM
Wild to see how TBP has gone insane just reading through this, although my most recent memory of them is simply getting annoyed because anytime I would ask about homebrew mechanics for something, no matter the genre, I'd just get bombarded with "use Fate Core use Fate Core". Hell, the rpg reddit got like that too and now it's non-stop "use 5e" for everything...

Glad I finally found this site courtesy of Pundit and Ocule, although I am more of a lurker than a poster.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on November 24, 2021, 12:36:09 AM
Wild to see how TBP has gone insane just reading through this, although my most recent memory of them is simply getting annoyed because anytime I would ask about homebrew mechanics for something, no matter the genre, I'd just get bombarded with "use Fate Core use Fate Core". Hell, the rpg reddit got like that too and now it's non-stop "use 5e" for everything...

Glad I finally found this site courtesy of Pundit and Ocule, although I am more of a lurker than a poster.
Here isn't so different; you get a fairly regular dosing of "use an OSR game" for damn near everything.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on November 24, 2021, 07:50:03 AM
Wild to see how TBP has gone insane just reading through this, although my most recent memory of them is simply getting annoyed because anytime I would ask about homebrew mechanics for something, no matter the genre, I'd just get bombarded with "use Fate Core use Fate Core". Hell, the rpg reddit got like that too and now it's non-stop "use 5e" for everything...

Glad I finally found this site courtesy of Pundit and Ocule, although I am more of a lurker than a poster.
Here isn't so different; you get a fairly regular dosing of "use an OSR game" for damn near everything.

Not from me, you won't. Then again, I'll tell you to use The Reflex System...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on November 24, 2021, 08:29:22 AM
Here isn't so different; you get a fairly regular dosing of "use an OSR game" for damn near everything.

  Every site has its darlings. TBP tends to favor the new hotness, this site is OSR-centric, EN World will always gravitate towards D&D, and the RPGPub loves it some Mythras.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on November 24, 2021, 09:26:42 AM

Not from me, you won't. Then again, I'll tell you to use The Reflex System...

I agree. I’m more likely to suggest Runequest or BRP though.

But we should live up to our reputation; let’s suggest to use FATAL or MYFAROG for absolutely everything.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 24, 2021, 11:06:05 AM
Wild to see how TBP has gone insane just reading through this, although my most recent memory of them is simply getting annoyed because anytime I would ask about homebrew mechanics for something, no matter the genre, I'd just get bombarded with "use Fate Core use Fate Core". Hell, the rpg reddit got like that too and now it's non-stop "use 5e" for everything...

Glad I finally found this site courtesy of Pundit and Ocule, although I am more of a lurker than a poster.
I'll just advise you to ignore anything HappyDerp says, because he's a tard.

But in all seriousness, I've found that mechanics are second fiddle to finding a good group you sync with personally. A clunky system can be redeemed if you share it with good friends; but even the neatest system in the world isn't much fun if you're not happy with your fellow gamers.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on November 24, 2021, 11:08:52 AM
The initial ban made no mention of a potential increase in penalty. That tells me that the mod staff overall has been discussing the thread and are looking for whatever excuses they can to permaban for wrongthink. I’m not surprised that DM_Curt caught an initial 7-day ban for his post, but the mods are usually up front at the time of the initial ban if they’re going to take the matter “backstage” (a tell of the performative nature of TBP moderation) to determine if a longer penalty is going to be handed out. I won’t be surprised if at some point membership at this site becomes grounds for the mods to invoke their Rule 0.

I think it already is. They have labeled us a hate site, after all.
It's pretty much "Who disagreed with the provably false narrative? Can't have that around!"

As for this being any sort of a hate site.....that's ironic, coming from them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 24, 2021, 07:33:26 PM
"Shut up," they explained.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wmarshal-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-threadban.889979/

Poor Tanka. Chained to the narrative. 'It was MURDER!' he cries, despite three convicted vermin trying to violently attack Rittenhouse. I wonder what he thinks of that black kid who shot up his school and was out on bond in time for his birthday party?

What a pathetic waste of digital real estate TBP is.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on November 24, 2021, 09:50:37 PM
What a pathetic waste of digital real estate TBP is.

He says as he keeps up a running commentary on the TBP.

 ;)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on November 25, 2021, 12:18:46 AM
Quote
"He was an idiot" should really only be uttered about actually minor offenses, not murder. Giving him an out like that is just the same as judges giving other white men slaps on the wrist because "they have a bright future ahead of them" while also giving Black men life sentences over inconsequential shit.


You're taking a month off, and are banned from this thread. Appeals may be sent to the admins at admin.rpgnet@gmail.com.

White men have recently been sent to jail in several cases where black people were killed, but not so when white people were killed. Whenever something happens to black people the media stoke massive riots. Also, every single time they compare black sentencing to white sentencing they "forget" to mention repeat offenses. This guy has no idea what's going on. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 25, 2021, 09:30:59 AM
What a pathetic waste of digital real estate TBP is.

He says as he keeps up a running commentary on the TBP.

 ;)
It's important to document their idiocy. Haven't I told you to archive, archive, archive the left's blather? They WILL memory hole their shit if given half a chance.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: The Spaniard on November 28, 2021, 02:53:23 PM
What a pathetic waste of digital real estate TBP is.

He says as he keeps up a running commentary on the TBP.

 ;)
It's important to document their idiocy. Haven't I told you to archive, archive, archive the left's blather? They WILL memory hole their shit if given half a chance.

It is important to know what those who hate you are up to.  Their site is mildly amusing, looking in every so often to see the less progressive get eaten by the radicals and are somehow baffled about what happened.  Dummies...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: The Spaniard on November 28, 2021, 02:55:16 PM
What a pathetic waste of digital real estate TBP is.

He says as he keeps up a running commentary on the TBP.

 ;)
It's important to document their idiocy. Haven't I told you to archive, archive, archive the left's blather? They WILL memory hole their shit if given half a chance.

It is important to know what those who hate you are up to.  Their site is mildly amusing; I look in every so often just to see the latest in a steady stream of less progressives step in their own pile, and get eaten by the radicals.   Dummies...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 28, 2021, 04:03:20 PM
TBP is suddenly aflutter, because it seems we're about to see Mandy Morbid vs Zak Sabbath, round two.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mandy-morbid-and-two-others-accuse-zak-smith-of-abuse-harrassment-sexual-assault-warning-very-very-dark-read-redtext-in-posts-86-418.841424/page-76#post-24144634

Mandy Morbid has a gofundme up for legal expenses (she's countersuing Zak) here: https://www.gofundme.com/f/wd76ub-help-with-legal-fees

I'll tell you what piqued me though is that she says her name is Amanda Nagy.

Which... I find curious as there is a Mandy Nagy who is a editor emerita for the Legal Insurrection blog. She suffered a stroke several years back and sadly was never the same. Odd. No, I don't think they're the same person, it's just weird.

Amusingly, one of the comments on the GFM was 'I never touched 5e because it fawned on Zac S and Pundit.' Sorry, what? They got a contributor's credit. How the hell is that fawning? Jesus.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on November 28, 2021, 05:44:14 PM
Seeing a woman called Nagy always makes me smile.  :D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Aglondir on December 04, 2021, 02:16:53 AM
TBP is suddenly aflutter, because it seems we're about to see Mandy Morbid vs Zak Sabbath, round two.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mandy-morbid-and-two-others-accuse-zak-smith-of-abuse-harrassment-sexual-assault-warning-very-very-dark-read-redtext-in-posts-86-418.841424/page-76#post-24144634

Those of us w/o logins can't see it. Can you post or screenshot?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 04, 2021, 11:38:17 AM
TBP is suddenly aflutter, because it seems we're about to see Mandy Morbid vs Zak Sabbath, round two.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mandy-morbid-and-two-others-accuse-zak-smith-of-abuse-harrassment-sexual-assault-warning-very-very-dark-read-redtext-in-posts-86-418.841424/page-76#post-24144634

Those of us w/o logins can't see it. Can you post or screenshot?
You're not missing anything. A lot of 'we hates Zak, we hates him yesss' and bitching about how defamation works. Nothing super juicy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on December 04, 2021, 11:51:55 AM
Amusingly, one of the comments on the GFM was 'I never touched 5e because it fawned on Zac S and Pundit.' Sorry, what? They got a contributor's credit. How the hell is that fawning? Jesus.
Almost as amusing as the sentiment I've seen other Lefties express, which is basically, "I love 5E, but they should have gotten different people to make it," as if that would have resulted in the same game.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on December 04, 2021, 09:34:22 PM
Amusingly, one of the comments on the GFM was 'I never touched 5e because it fawned on Zac S and Pundit.' Sorry, what? They got a contributor's credit. How the hell is that fawning? Jesus.
Almost as amusing as the sentiment I've seen other Lefties express, which is basically, "I love 5E, but they should have gotten different people to make it," as if that would have resulted in the same game.

If they were logical or rational they wouldn't be SJWs...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on December 05, 2021, 10:44:22 AM
OK, color me baffled.  What's wrong with the Combs/Krause at the con pic?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 05, 2021, 12:49:41 PM
OK, color me baffled.  What's wrong with the Combs/Krause at the con pic?
No clue. I assume you're referring to this ban: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dmjalund-receives-a-🚫-one-day-ban-and-thread-ban.890382/

"Okay, this right here, whatever it is is absolutely not acceptable for an A-game thread. Take a day off and do not post in this thread again."

This is pretty much an admission of 'you did something I don't like so I'm going to fuck you for it with a one day ban and a threadban'.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on December 05, 2021, 01:48:34 PM
OK, color me baffled.  What's wrong with the Combs/Krause at the con pic?
No clue. I assume you're referring to this ban: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dmjalund-receives-a-🚫-one-day-ban-and-thread-ban.890382/

"Okay, this right here, whatever it is is absolutely not acceptable for an A-game thread. Take a day off and do not post in this thread again."

This is pretty much an admission of 'you did something I don't like so I'm going to fuck you for it with a one day ban and a threadban'.
The surrounding discussion is about the re-introduction of masks because Omicron is (SURPRISE!) resistant to current immunizations. I guess seeing people not wearing masks, in this context, triggered Dawgstar.  I'm reaching though.

I should explain.  I find the TBP policies to be disgusting, and anyone who enforces them contemptible.  So when a mod makes a post like this, my conscience demands I be scrupulously fair before labeling the action a "Once again, the inmates are running the asylum" event. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on December 05, 2021, 02:00:42 PM
OK, color me baffled.  What's wrong with the Combs/Krause at the con pic?
No clue. I assume you're referring to this ban: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dmjalund-receives-a-🚫-one-day-ban-and-thread-ban.890382/

"Okay, this right here, whatever it is is absolutely not acceptable for an A-game thread. Take a day off and do not post in this thread again."

This is pretty much an admission of 'you did something I don't like so I'm going to fuck you for it with a one day ban and a threadban'.
The surrounding discussion is about the re-introduction of masks because Omicron is (SURPRISE!) resistant to current immunizations. I guess seeing people not wearing masks, in this context, triggered Dawgstar.  I'm reaching though.

I should explain.  I find the TBP policies to be disgusting, and anyone who enforces them contemptible.  So when a mod makes a post like this, my conscience demands I be scrupulously fair before labeling the action a "Once again, the inmates are running the asylum" event.

Not being able to see the posts I will need to see the photo because I suspect you're totally wrong if that's the Krause I think it is.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 06, 2021, 08:30:46 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/capellan-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-sexist-language.890480/

This is hilarious, and I shall explain why.

First, there are threads (granted, old threads) dating back to 2004 and 2006 on TBP discussing this very term.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/explain-pixel-bitching.288340/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/we-need-a-cool-insulting-name-for-this-kind-of-gming.127858/

The second thread has the Forum Administrator chiming in. There are suggestions by other posters for less pejorative/more kid-friendly terms, which come off less 'wah sensitivity' and more 'this seems kinda opaque, how about this?'. Which I can dig.

Secondly, as far as I can tell this is the only time anyone's been sanctioned for the term. It's not in the Rules and Guidelines (and calling it 'sexist' is a real fucking reach). The closest I can find was a guidance by Q99 suggesting they change the name to 'pixel hunting'.

TLDR; of all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these: TBP mods are dumb shits again.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on December 06, 2021, 05:25:51 PM
This is hilarious ... as far as I can tell this is the only time anyone's been sanctioned for the term. It's not in the Rules and Guidelines (and calling it 'sexist' is a real fucking reach). The closest I can find was a guidance by Q99 suggesting they change the name to 'pixel hunting'.

It does have a real vibe of have-to-do-something-to-justify-my-position bureaucratic hamsterwheeling, doesn't it?

I suppose mods who answer complaint reports with, "Are you f***ing kidding me? Stop wasting our time," don't last long if they ignore the wrong types of hurt feelings.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on December 10, 2021, 04:58:59 PM
If anyone had reason to doubt, we now have evidence that TBP's official stance is Marxist-Leninist, because they explicitly subscribe to the labour theory of value:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/apn-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-general-hostility-and-group-attacks.890760/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/apn-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-general-hostility-and-group-attacks.890760/)

Quote
Quote from: APN
I don't/can't pay money above a certain level and take a chance that the PDF is something I can or will use. A book I can glance through and sell on if it's not my thing. On the other hand I've backed loads of Kickstarter PDFs at or around the $10-15 mark and will continue to do so for the usual suspects (SineNomine etc). There's a sweet spot for PDFs for me and $31 isn't it.

Whatever your personal finances are, there are rpgs set for every one of them, including free. However, that is a choice that the publishers and authors make. Most rpg writers and artists are making less than minimum wage, and it is (TBP)'s stance that people deserve to be paid for their work.

The proper response to something you like being too expensive to buy is "oh, shoot, not in my budget, good luck." It is not to stride into a thread, rant about the old saw that pdfs should be cheap (they are still a product of hundreds, if not thousands of man hours), and throw around hyperbole like "their new Ferrari". In fact, hostile and vastly inaccurate stances like this are what drives publishers, writers and artists away from the business, besides giving an inaccurate view of what the roleplaying game market is like. We are giving you three days off and a threadban, and we suggest that you figure out a way to post your concerns without attacking other people.

(Emphasis mine.)

Socially liberal values vs. socially conservative values I've stopped arguing about because it's very hard to get anywhere with it. But if the RPG industry expects a product's market value to be set by the time it took to produce rather than the quality and usefulness it offers the buyer, it's no wonder nobody's making a living in the field anymore.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on December 11, 2021, 02:16:02 PM
OK, color me baffled.  What's wrong with the Combs/Krause at the con pic?
No clue. I assume you're referring to this ban: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dmjalund-receives-a-🚫-one-day-ban-and-thread-ban.890382/

"Okay, this right here, whatever it is is absolutely not acceptable for an A-game thread. Take a day off and do not post in this thread again."

This is pretty much an admission of 'you did something I don't like so I'm going to fuck you for it with a one day ban and a threadban'.
The surrounding discussion is about the re-introduction of masks because Omicron is (SURPRISE!) resistant to current immunizations. I guess seeing people not wearing masks, in this context, triggered Dawgstar.  I'm reaching though.

I should explain.  I find the TBP policies to be disgusting, and anyone who enforces them contemptible.  So when a mod makes a post like this, my conscience demands I be scrupulously fair before labeling the action a "Once again, the inmates are running the asylum" event.

Not being able to see the posts I will need to see the photo because I suspect you're totally wrong if that's the Krause I think it is.
I tried to upload a compressed version of the photo, but it wouldn't post.  It's HMC and some guy (I guess "Krause") holding a bunch of puppy puppets or beanbags.  Is Krause a sore subject at TBP?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 14, 2021, 10:27:43 AM
Believe all women, especially when it's for someone we find politically inconvenient (as opposed to Gropey Joe).

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/randall-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban.890917/

I have no great love for Assange, but I'm mighty suspicious about how some of those 'charges' popped into being. But they can't have that, and so Randall gets the boot for a month.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on December 14, 2021, 01:20:47 PM
I have no great love for Assange, but I'm mighty suspicious about how some of those 'charges' popped into being. But they can't have that, and so Randall gets the boot for a month.
Ah, and a "baseless conspiracy theory" to boot. Funny how everything is a "baseless conspiracy theory" if it reflects poorly on the Left, but CNN's hoax-of-the-week is always greeted with eager credulity.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on December 14, 2021, 07:46:42 PM
What isn’t a sore subject at TBP?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on December 14, 2021, 08:06:01 PM
Believe all women, especially when it's for someone we find politically inconvenient (as opposed to Gropey Joe).

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/randall-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban.890917/

I have no great love for Assange, but I'm mighty suspicious about how some of those 'charges' popped into being. But they can't have that, and so Randall gets the boot for a month.

Randall forgot Rule 1: Believe all women that we like

Sad
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 15, 2021, 01:12:07 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/racist-tropes-in-d-d-5e-volos-fault.890923/

NOT WOKE ENOUGH!@
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: avaia on December 15, 2021, 07:10:50 AM
May I ask, what exactly is "TBP"? I found myself interested in this thread after receiving a 30-day ban from RPG.net for objecting to a moderator publicly libeling me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 15, 2021, 07:55:04 AM
May I ask, what exactly is "TBP"? I found myself interested in this thread after receiving a 30-day ban from RPG.net for objecting to a moderator publicly libeling me.
The Big Purple, aka RPGnet. Refers to their color scheme.

EDIT: It appears you've been permabanned for sockpuppeting there (whether you were or not). Might as well make yourself comfortable here.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Godfather Punk on December 15, 2021, 07:56:22 AM
The Banning Place
or The Big Purple
or They Ban Puerile
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: avaia on December 15, 2021, 08:53:04 AM
May I ask, what exactly is "TBP"? I found myself interested in this thread after receiving a 30-day ban from RPG.net for objecting to a moderator publicly libeling me.
The Big Purple, aka RPGnet. Refers to their color scheme.

EDIT: It appears you've been permabanned for sockpuppeting there (whether you were or not). Might as well make yourself comfortable here.

Wow, they are bizarre. Wasn't doing any such thing.

Incidentally, I've been reading up here and elsewhere on the incredible number of problems that people have had with their moderators, and it's frankly shocking the extent to which this problem has proliferated. I didn't even know the site was originally founded by Sandy Antunes, and I have great respect for some of his work from back in the 1990s. Of course, he's no longer the owner of the site, now.

But, it's just absolutely bizarre how they allow their moderators to falsely malign people and have no real accountability for the moderation staff. If you read the thread which lead to my 30-day ban, you can see quite clearly that my initial post in the thread was completely innocuous, and was met with a tidal wave of hostility that falsely characterised what I even said. The only argument I made was that it costs less to reproduce a PDF file than it does to print a book, and one of the moderators there accused me of arguing that creators shouldn't or don't deserve to get paid a fair price for their work, a position that I pointed out would be self-defeating, since I happen to be a creator in this industry, and I like to get paid too. When I demanded a retraction and an apology on the grounds that I never said or even came close to implying what the moderator was accusing me of having said, and used the Report feature on that comment, I got a 30-day ban.

By their own rules, if a mod posts a regular user post, one is supposed to use the Report feature to Report it, but I was banned for "abuse of the Report feature", because I reported a Mod, even though I followed their own established procedure.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: avaia on December 15, 2021, 09:05:45 AM
Oh, and I haven't even mentioned the absolute cowardice of the moderators over there, who hide behind pseudonyms while attacking publicly identified people under color of their moderation authority. I have to be publicly identified, because my ability to market my creations depends upon having the integrity to be recognised and identified with my work, but the people who engage in extremely unethical "moderation" at RPG.net get to hide behind a shield of anonymity, and there is effectively no real appeals process or accountability, despite what they claim.

I note that people have in the past attempted to appeal directly to the site owners and have been summarily rebuffed.

Ah well, now that they've permabanned me, I can slag them off all I like, and there's nothing more than can do to me. :D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 15, 2021, 09:45:12 AM
May I ask, what exactly is "TBP"? I found myself interested in this thread after receiving a 30-day ban from RPG.net for objecting to a moderator publicly libeling me.
The Big Purple, aka RPGnet. Refers to their color scheme.

EDIT: It appears you've been permabanned for sockpuppeting there (whether you were or not). Might as well make yourself comfortable here.

Wow, they are bizarre. Wasn't doing any such thing.

Incidentally, I've been reading up here and elsewhere on the incredible number of problems that people have had with their moderators, and it's frankly shocking the extent to which this problem has proliferated. I didn't even know the site was originally founded by Sandy Antunes, and I have great respect for some of his work from back in the 1990s. Of course, he's no longer the owner of the site, now.

But, it's just absolutely bizarre how they allow their moderators to falsely malign people and have no real accountability for the moderation staff. If you read the thread which lead to my 30-day ban, you can see quite clearly that my initial post in the thread was completely innocuous, and was met with a tidal wave of hostility that falsely characterised what I even said. The only argument I made was that it costs less to reproduce a PDF file than it does to print a book, and one of the moderators there accused me of arguing that creators shouldn't or don't deserve to get paid a fair price for their work, a position that I pointed out would be self-defeating, since I happen to be a creator in this industry, and I like to get paid too. When I demanded a retraction and an apology on the grounds that I never said or even came close to implying what the moderator was accusing me of having said, and used the Report feature on that comment, I got a 30-day ban.

By their own rules, if a mod posts a regular user post, one is supposed to use the Report feature to Report it, but I was banned for "abuse of the Report feature", because I reported a Mod, even though I followed their own established procedure.
Reporting a mod? Yeah, not happening.

I went through the thread in question. I thought it got a little heated. But because TBP mods are fragile snowflakes, you're not allowed to criticize or question them. Ever.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: avaia on December 15, 2021, 12:24:44 PM
Heated? When someone maligns me publicly and accuses me of arguing something I never said, and does so in full knowledge of the fact that their status as moderator is going to make people believe it whether or not it's true, you're damn right I'm going to get heated, for good cause.

' If you don’t want to pay a fair price for the creative work that goes into developing a game book, you do not have to buy the book. But it is not kind to argue that game creators are unreasonable for wishing to make a living from their work. '

I never argued any such thing. All I said was PDFs cost less to produce than physical books, and Patrick O'Duffy (who literally just got off a three day ban for outrageous hostility against another user, check the Infractions from the other day) jumped all over me making false accusations, then multiple other users jumped on and dogpiled me with some really nasty comments, culminating in Arethusa libelling me.

That is some seriously unethical stuff, right there.

And what's even funnier is how they continued arguing about irrelevancies, never once actually addressing what "substantially lower" might actually mean. Let's say a physical book costs $50. If a PDF version sells for $40, that's a 20% discount. Now again, I'm not arguing specific numbers, but would you say 20% is "significantly lower"? I think a lot of people would. What if the PDF were $30, or even $25? Now we're talking a full 50% discount, yet I guarantee you some people would say that's too expensive. I, on the other hand, didn't say any such thing. All I said was, a PDF *should* cost substantially less, and left it open-ended.

I *am* a game creator. These dunderheads have convinced themselves I am arguing that I myself am being unreasonable for wishing to make a living from my work.

I didn't say a single thing in that thread that will embarrass me later. The others? Not so much. The written record stands and is clear as day.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 15, 2021, 12:44:26 PM
I admit I'm a little detached, since I wasn't involved in the thread.

I personally would love to see a comprehensive analysis of costs for PDF distribution versus dead-tree publication. They latched onto the 'creator costs' pretty hard (presumably because they know they're about as competent at money management as they are in, well, everything else).

But of course, it's easier for TBP's ball-washers and their mods to just get up on their high horse, sneer at anyone not following the party line, and ban them when they get uppity. Know your place, peasant.

We may yell at each other, insult each other, and get bitchy here, but at least we're not hypocritical fucknuggets who cook up reasons to ban people.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on December 15, 2021, 03:02:48 PM
Oh, and I haven't even mentioned the absolute cowardice of the moderators over there, who hide behind pseudonyms while attacking publicly identified people under color of their moderation authority. I have to be publicly identified, because my ability to market my creations depends upon having the integrity to be recognised and identified with my work, but the people who engage in extremely unethical "moderation" at RPG.net get to hide behind a shield of anonymity, and there is effectively no real appeals process or accountability, despite what they claim.

Avaia, did you only noticed the problem after they banned you?

Nothing came up before that happened that seemed a little off?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: avaia on December 15, 2021, 03:10:26 PM
Oh, of course this wasn't the first incident.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: avaia on December 15, 2021, 03:17:38 PM
They latched onto the 'creator costs' pretty hard

The hilarious part was the incredible display of anything even remotely resembling an actual business analysis of publication costs, especially by the ass who puffed himself up with his supposed publishing career history.

Terms like "fixed cost", "variable cost", and "cost of goods sold" are Business 101, but when I used them to illustrate exactly how wrong Mr. Publishing Expert was, it was as if I was speaking a foreign language they didn't understand.

I've done this work, in this industry. I've been on the retail side, too. I have intimate knowledge of what goes into the process from end to end, and the math doesn't lie, ever.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: avaia on December 15, 2021, 03:23:39 PM
Even better was the guy dismissively admitting he didn't even bother to read the article I linked, because he thought it sounded like an advertisment (logical fallacy: ad hominem attack) which discusses in detail the difference between cost-based pricing and value-based pricing, and why one model might be appropriate in one situation while being inappropriate in a different situation.

People read what they want to read, and not what is actually written, I guess. They read because they are addicted to outrage porn, and not to actually have responsible adult conversations about serious industry topics like what constitutes a "fair price" for a PDF.

The bottom line is the producer sets the price, but the consumer decides if that price is fair, and no amount of whining on the part of creators is ever going to change market economics into fairy dust and rainbow sprinkles.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on December 15, 2021, 04:07:10 PM
They read because they are addicted to outrage porn, and not to actually have responsible adult conversations about serious industry topics like what constitutes a "fair price" for a PDF.

The TBP staff are on the whole obsessed with guaranteeing the "safe space" atmosphere of their forums, and one of the rules they've set to do this is "The onus is on the poster to be clear". In theory this is meant to encourage posters to be as unambiguous as possible about what they're actually saying. In practice this means that if any reader interprets an expressed position or opinion to be "offensive", the poster does not get any good faith credit for replying to such accusations with, "That isn't what I meant," or to deflect criticism by saying, "You're reading too much into this."

The problem with putting the formal responsibility to avoid offense entirely on original posters is, of course, that it enshrines a bad-faith attitude of assuming the worst from the get-go, which only makes it all the easier for readers to infer offense where none was intended. If it was balanced with a similar guideline like, "The onus is on the reader to assume the best possible intended spirit for any post before deciding if it deserves to be reported," things might simmer down somewhat. (But then again, they might not.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on December 15, 2021, 04:10:32 PM
These people are idiots, avaia, and not worth your time. They are the very embodiment of group-think. They will never apologize, reconsider, or even question their beliefs. Their programming simply doesn't allow it.

On the upside, by banning you, they lost a valuable contributing member, which means that the site is one step closer to becoming irrelevant. Hopefully something better will come along soon and replace it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on December 15, 2021, 04:17:03 PM
If it was balanced with a similar guideline like, "The onus is on the reader to assume the best possible intended spirit for any post before deciding if it deserves to be reported," things might simmer down somewhat. (But then again, they might not.)
That might actually work if the directive came from higher up and all the moderators were on-board with it (and if they really understood the guideline's intent). But I think once these purity spirals get started, nothing but total collapse can bring them to an end. TBP will probably crash and burn or become completely irrelevant before the moderation policies change.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Neoplatonist1 on December 15, 2021, 08:21:15 PM
That might actually work if the directive came from higher up and all the moderators were on-board with it (and if they really understood the guideline's intent). But I think once these purity spirals get started, nothing but total collapse can bring them to an end. TBP will probably crash and burn or become completely irrelevant before the moderation policies change.

I'm struck by the lack of self-awareness and political awareness in people running or frequenting sites like TBP. It's like they have the real-life equivalent of "genre-blindness" when the characters don't realize they're in a horror movie and so do stupid things like wander off alone. Do the mods at TBP understand what a "purity spiral" is? Do they grasp that they have created a totalitarian environment of snitches, newspeak, historical revisionism, and gulags? Or are they ingenuous?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on December 15, 2021, 08:45:06 PM
That might actually work if the directive came from higher up and all the moderators were on-board with it (and if they really understood the guideline's intent). But I think once these purity spirals get started, nothing but total collapse can bring them to an end. TBP will probably crash and burn or become completely irrelevant before the moderation policies change.

I'm struck by the lack of self-awareness and political awareness in people running or frequenting sites like TBP. It's like they have the real-life equivalent of "genre-blindness" when the characters don't realize they're in a horror movie and so do stupid things like wander off alone. Do the mods at TBP understand what a "purity spiral" is? Do they grasp that they have created a totalitarian environment of snitches, newspeak, historical revisionism, and gulags? Or are they ingenuous?

You say Purity Spiral like it is a bad thing?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on December 15, 2021, 11:29:07 PM
Purity Spiral: better name for an Anime-inspired RPG, a dystopian book or a Christian Metal band?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on December 15, 2021, 11:40:58 PM
Purity Spiral: a Christian progressive metal band, playing extremely technical, aggressive, and complex songs about our lord Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on December 15, 2021, 11:45:32 PM
Purity Spiral: a Christian progressive metal band, playing extremely technical, aggressive, and complex songs about our lord Jesus Christ.
Aw, hell, why not that sounds great.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on December 16, 2021, 01:49:41 AM
Purity Spiral: a Christian progressive metal band, playing extremely technical, aggressive, and complex songs about our lord Jesus Christ.

Unfortunately they keep losing their fanbase to internal schisms about who loves them the most.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KingCheops on December 16, 2021, 11:15:32 AM
I'd download that album.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 25, 2021, 06:37:42 PM
Know your place, peasants.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-process-of-appealing-to-the-rpgnet-admins-does-not-seem-to-be-working-as-presented-to-the-users.891407/

But hey, that's just 'press conferencing', it's not like the TBP mods are worthless wastes of flesh who pretend at being 'righteous'. Expecting Tanka to demonstrate self-reflection is kind of pointless. It's not going to happen. Tanka is right and you're wrong and if you disagree well fuck you, prole.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on December 25, 2021, 06:46:56 PM
He is not named after a Tankie, right?

It would be like having a mod called Hitla.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: avaia on December 26, 2021, 01:58:12 PM
Know your place, peasants.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-process-of-appealing-to-the-rpgnet-admins-does-not-seem-to-be-working-as-presented-to-the-users.891407/

But hey, that's just 'press conferencing', it's not like the TBP mods are worthless wastes of flesh who pretend at being 'righteous'. Expecting Tanka to demonstrate self-reflection is kind of pointless. It's not going to happen. Tanka is right and you're wrong and if you disagree well fuck you, prole.

RPG net Commandment #1: Thou shalt not question thy betters. Out of the way, peck!

I have never received a single reply to any attempt to appeal a moderator decision. It's pretty hypocritical to public proclaim yourself a champion of social justice, as the RPG net staff effectively do, and then utterly fail at having any sort of accountability to the constituency or any real principles of justice, like a transparent and effective appellate review process.

Sadly, this problem is more common than one might think in professional social justice circles, particularly in the nonprofit sector.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: robertliguori on December 26, 2021, 02:03:32 PM
Hey, I got my perma for appealing.  IIRC, I think my appeal got called worse than the one that tried to call down the Ruinous Powers on the mods. 

Honestly, I kind of prefer the mask-off version of TBP's moderation.  When a bunch of crazy people get together and start reinforcing their mutual crazy, then it takes a lot of strength of will to interact with them and not doubt your own sanity.  But nowadays, even the people who remain are pretty clearly working really hard to Not Notice certain things, and one of the first of those is that the rules of RPG.net are solely for the gratification and ego-flattery of the mod staff.  That which flatters the mods and their prejudices is not just accepted, but mandatory, and that which denies them maximal flattery is forbidden.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on December 26, 2021, 03:43:55 PM
Kind of like how a lot of countries with the word Democratic in the name are not.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on December 26, 2021, 06:01:23 PM
How has that shithole not disappeared up it's own arse for contradictory and inconsistent moderation already?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Iron_Rain on December 26, 2021, 06:59:27 PM
How has that shithole not disappeared up it's own arse for contradictory and inconsistent moderation already?

The site has been in decline for 15 years, according to google trends:
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=rpg.net

Could someone familiar with Alexa site metrics please explain RPG net's position in comparison to competitors?

https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/rpg.net

My read of it is that they are not doing that well, but maybe I'm misreading things.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Nephil on December 26, 2021, 07:20:23 PM
Whenever RPGnet bites it, it can't be too soon. They had a wonderful forum with interesting posters an they chose to turn it into a struggle session. No, I'm not bitter, you are bitter.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on December 26, 2021, 07:24:24 PM
The site has been in decline for 15 years, according to google trends:
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=rpg.net

Wow, their traffic is in the toilet.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on December 26, 2021, 08:22:09 PM
The site has been in decline for 15 years, according to google trends:
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=rpg.net

Wow, their traffic is in the toilet.
It's not traffic, it's searches. But it's true they are in decline. However that's the case for most internet forums. It's a dying medium. Can't compare it to therpgsite.com, because there isn't enough data, but enworld.org shows a similar pattern.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=enworld.org
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=therpgsite.com
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 26, 2021, 10:23:25 PM
They're probably trying to figure out some way to ban wmarshal that doesn't make them look like complete hypocrites. That wouldn't bother them, obviously, but the last thing they need are more people questioning the simulation and demanding answers.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abraxus on December 27, 2021, 10:55:01 AM
Can anyone show a chart of the traffic levels of the Paizo website?

If their traffic is not down it soon will be.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on December 27, 2021, 08:04:24 PM
So I read the last few pages of the Volo thread there and the navel gazing on this is interesting.

Personally when I play RPGs I'm trying to get away from real life issues, not drag them in. The reverse is apparently the case there. I point it out the same way I did on a now defunct political forum I used to post on in regards to politics in sports and how I didn't want them intruding, particularly (American) football:

"I am attuned to politics Monday through Friday, I don't need extra credit work on the weekends."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on December 27, 2021, 10:44:35 PM
Oh, an imagine if they ran this now: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/how-can-we-improve-rpg-net.753426/

OF course i doubt anyone would be honest these days...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 28, 2021, 08:02:15 AM
"I am attuned to polotics Monday through Friday, I don't need extra credit work on the weekends."
I'm so stealing that. :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 28, 2021, 09:59:48 AM
Oh, an imagine if they ran this now: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/how-can-we-improve-rpg-net.753426/

OF course i doubt anyone would be honest these days...

That takes me back. In hindsight, it looks like a huge honeypot trap thread now.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 28, 2021, 11:13:06 AM
Oh, an imagine if they ran this now: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/how-can-we-improve-rpg-net.753426/

OF course i doubt anyone would be honest these days...

That takes me back. In hindsight, it looks like a huge honeypot trap thread now.
They have to scratch that ban itch SOMEHOW.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on December 28, 2021, 04:18:40 PM
"I am attuned to politics Monday through Friday, I don't need extra credit work on the weekends."
I'm so stealing that. :)
Feel free.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Novastar on January 04, 2022, 12:07:39 AM
Oh, an imagine if they ran this now: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/how-can-we-improve-rpg-net.753426/

OF course i doubt anyone would be honest these days...

That takes me back. In hindsight, it looks like a huge honeypot trap thread now.
I think that was the general consensus here, when that thread first went up six years ago...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 07, 2022, 11:41:21 AM
Haven't seen a whole lot of really notable bans. Usually the little petty bullshit.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/beastttt-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.891947/

'Wah, how dare you suggest that systems are secondary to having a good group and GM?' It's particularly funny for me as two posts later some wank is suggesting Starfinder for a 'Guardians of the Galaxy'-esque campaign. Holy fuck, I hated Starfinder.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/komradebob-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-casually-racist-language.891920/

'Thou shalt not reference 'sacred cows' as it is offensive to Indians. Never mind that my mod handle is ableist.'

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/jinx999-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-breaking-our-racism-policy-after-redtext.891907/

'Everything is racist when we say it is. Shut up and don't backtalk your betters, you serf.'
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 07, 2022, 01:02:45 PM
Haven't seen a whole lot of really notable bans. Usually the little petty bullshit.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/beastttt-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.891947/

'Wah, how dare you suggest that systems are secondary to having a good group and GM?' It's particularly funny for me as two posts later some wank is suggesting Starfinder for a 'Guardians of the Galaxy'-esque campaign. Holy fuck, I hated Starfinder.

Well, as a Starfinder fan, I think it's a great match for Guardians of the Galaxy. Cinematic, over the top, and highly unrealistic!

Quote
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/komradebob-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-casually-racist-language.891920/

'Thou shalt not reference 'sacred cows' as it is offensive to Indians. Never mind that my mod handle is ableist.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpddaZB9bcI

Indeed. If they're going to ding someone for "sacred cow", they'd better be prepared to nuke CrazyIvan's handle for being disparaging towards mental illness.

But we know consistency isn't RPG.net's mods strong suit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Godfather Punk on January 07, 2022, 01:39:26 PM
Do they still have a Cannibal Smiley as a mod? Isn't that offensive too to some group or other?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on January 07, 2022, 07:35:01 PM
Holy f**k, I hated Starfinder.

Why, out of curiosity? (I don't care myself about the game, I'm just interested to hear what produces really strong reactions.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 08, 2022, 08:05:19 AM
Holy f**k, I hated Starfinder.

Why, out of curiosity? (I don't care myself about the game, I'm just interested to hear what produces really strong reactions.)
It felt terribly clunky and unpolished when I played it, and I absolutely loathed the level-based equipment subsystems. Also, the Dead Suns AP doesn't seem to be well planned out with expectations that PCs will go off the rails now and then.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ocule on January 08, 2022, 11:32:22 AM
Haven't seen a whole lot of really notable bans. Usually the little petty bullshit.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/beastttt-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.891947/

'Wah, how dare you suggest that systems are secondary to having a good group and GM?' It's particularly funny for me as two posts later some wank is suggesting Starfinder for a 'Guardians of the Galaxy'-esque campaign. Holy fuck, I hated Starfinder.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/komradebob-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-casually-racist-language.891920/

'Thou shalt not reference 'sacred cows' as it is offensive to Indians. Never mind that my mod handle is ableist.'

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/jinx999-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-breaking-our-racism-policy-after-redtext.891907/

'Everything is racist when we say it is. Shut up and don't backtalk your betters, you serf.'
m
Is the irony lost on the moderator whose name is CrazyIvan? Isn’t that racist to Russians or something I can’t keep up anymore
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Godfather Punk on January 08, 2022, 12:29:31 PM
He'll probably claim it's a reference to the submarine manoeuvre, which he picked up from Tom Clancy's books. That famous left winger... Oh, wait... cognitive dissonance rising...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 09, 2022, 08:42:44 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dragox27-receives-a-🔴-warning-threadban.892053/

Seiberwing doesn't even try to invoke any rule. It's just 'leave the thread'.

Relevant posts:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/chronicles-of-darkness.891868/post-24201240

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/chronicles-of-darkness.891868/post-24201292

I suppose he COULD argue that Dragox27 was being unnecessarily aggressive, but it's more likely that after getting slapped down, Professor Phobos went and cried in Seiberwing's lap for some mod action.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: avaia on January 09, 2022, 08:52:26 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dragox27-receives-a-🔴-warning-threadban.892053/

Seiberwing doesn't even try to invoke any rule. It's just 'leave the thread'.

Relevant posts:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/chronicles-of-darkness.891868/post-24201240

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/chronicles-of-darkness.891868/post-24201292

I suppose he COULD argue that Dragox27 was being unnecessarily aggressive, but it's more likely that after getting slapped down, Professor Phobos went and cried in Seiberwing's lap for some mod action.

That's just so fucked up. I don't see anything in that post other than honest disagreement. But, this is the kind of exchange that has gotten me multiple thread bans for…what, exactly? I honestly hope that site implodes. Few things piss me off more than petty tyranny.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: avaia on January 09, 2022, 08:57:58 PM
He'll probably claim it's a reference to the submarine manoeuvre, which he picked up from Tom Clancy's books. That famous left winger... Oh, wait... cognitive dissonance rising...

Tom Clancy is most definitely not culturally sensitive, lol. But really, by the mores of that site, that userid is, in fact, ableist, and should be disallowed on that basis. Whether or not you agree with the stated values of the site, the fact is that it's hypocritical of them not to follow their own rules.

And the thing is, I *do* agree with the values behind the determination that using such a name constitutes an ableist slur, but if anything is worse than the hypocrisy of reactionaries, it's the hypocrisy of progressives.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on January 10, 2022, 06:14:20 AM
He'll probably claim it's a reference to the submarine manoeuvre, which he picked up from Tom Clancy's books. That famous left winger... Oh, wait... cognitive dissonance rising...

Tom Clancy is most definitely not culturally sensitive, lol.

It was a real definition used by US submarines and it made sense: a Soviet sub all off sudden turned left or right to check if an enemy one was in the sonar blind spot behind it. This could very possibly cause a collision or a near miss, given the fact that subs don't stop on a dime, so it was a "crazy" maneuver.

Clancy, in "The Hunt for Red October" writes that "collisions between US and USSR subs were among the highest classified events of the Cold War". After the USSR crumbled, rumbles of these collisions started to filter out, proving that Clancy was right. How that man managed to get some of the info you find in his books is beyond me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: avaia on January 10, 2022, 04:30:38 PM
He'll probably claim it's a reference to the submarine manoeuvre, which he picked up from Tom Clancy's books. That famous left winger... Oh, wait... cognitive dissonance rising...

Tom Clancy is most definitely not culturally sensitive, lol.

It was a real definition used by US submarines and it made sense: a Soviet sub all off sudden turned left or right to check if an enemy one was in the sonar blind spot behind it. This could very possibly cause a collision or a near miss, given the fact that subs don't stop on a dime, so it was a "crazy" maneuver.

Clancy, in "The Hunt for Red October" writes that "collisions between US and USSR subs were among the highest classified events of the Cold War". After the USSR crumbled, rumbles of these collisions started to filter out, proving that Clancy was right. How that man managed to get some of the info you find in his books is beyond me.

I’m quite well aware of the origin of the term, but linguistically and culturally speaking, the origin is of no relevance to how the term is or may be perceived in society 38 years after the book was published. And it’s not really relevant to the discussion of RPGnet’s hypocrisy whether or not you personally perceive the term as ableist, the context is really within the self-established rules, mors, and culture of RPGnet, which clearly, by their own standards, the use of the word “crazy” is considered by most people who travel in progressive circles to be ableist.

The Cold War as we knew it back then is dead history, and thankfully so. Even to this day, whenever I heard the alert sound of the Emergency Broadcast System, it makes me feel as if we have a half hour left to live.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 26, 2022, 08:34:10 AM
Jannies of TBP gotta scratch that itch.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/tolcreator-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban.892763/

Lots of small penis energy there from Funkadelic. 'Tired old racist tropes against nomadic peoples'? Really? Does he NOT know the history of the Mongols? Probably not, who am I kidding.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/anwar2-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-and-threadban.892825/

Offering any negative opinion of a property or creator is doubleplusungood, unless of course it's someone already convicted in TBP's kangaroo courts of wrongthink.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: PonchoGoblin on January 28, 2022, 03:31:25 PM
So don't know if this would apply to this thread, but it seems TBP decay has spread to other woke watering holes of the hobby, considering the rpg subreddit now has a top post that is some dude's hour long video seething about how GrimJim and Pundit are "Nazis" ::) clown world at its best
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on January 29, 2022, 05:12:28 AM
So don't know if this would apply to this thread, but it seems TBP decay has spread to other woke watering holes of the hobby, considering the rpg subreddit now has a top post that is some dude's hour long video seething about how GrimJim and Pundit are "Nazis" ::) clown world at its best

I lasted 15 minutes of the fat neckbeard pointing at "Nazi's, Nazi's everywhere" boring rant, and that was with the 5 first minutes of him just going through "the Wave".

Grimjims rebuttal was much more entertaining.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: PonchoGoblin on January 29, 2022, 08:18:59 AM
So don't know if this would apply to this thread, but it seems TBP decay has spread to other woke watering holes of the hobby, considering the rpg subreddit now has a top post that is some dude's hour long video seething about how GrimJim and Pundit are "Nazis" ::) clown world at its best

I lasted 15 minutes of the fat neckbeard pointing at "Nazi's, Nazi's everywhere" boring rant, and that was with the 5 first minutes of him just going through "the Wave".

Grimjims rebuttal was much more entertaining.
It was, was mostly had a wtf with the comments in the sub, looked like the idiots from antiwork had to go somewhere and they went over to rpg
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 29, 2022, 01:57:17 PM
LOL, 'spread'. It's reddit, it's pretty heavily infested with morons as is. Sorry Poncho, it's always been pretty fucked up.

Wouldn't surprise me to see the antiwork tards tracking shit elsewhere though after that hilarious disaster of a Fox interview.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: PonchoGoblin on January 29, 2022, 03:05:04 PM
LOL, 'spread'. It's reddit, it's pretty heavily infested with morons as is. Sorry Poncho, it's always been pretty fucked up.

Wouldn't surprise me to see the antiwork tards tracking shit elsewhere though after that hilarious disaster of a Fox interview.

That is true, guess I just never saw much of it since I mostly stuck to niche hobby subs like osr and others

Edit: although, I was banned from the sub for my alma mater because when Hillary was coming to give a speech, I joked that they shouldn't let criminals on campus. Ban reason was being a "nazi" (when my great grandparents were quite literally prisoners in Auschwitz...)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 29, 2022, 05:48:15 PM
So don't know if this would apply to this thread, but it seems TBP decay has spread to other woke watering holes of the hobby, considering the rpg subreddit now has a top post that is some dude's hour long video seething about how GrimJim and Pundit are "Nazis" ::) clown world at its best

I lasted 15 minutes of the fat neckbeard pointing at "Nazi's, Nazi's everywhere" boring rant, and that was with the 5 first minutes of him just going through "the Wave".

Grimjims rebuttal was much more entertaining.

I can't find it. Anyone got a link to the video in question? I'm slightly curious.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mad Tom on January 29, 2022, 06:22:41 PM
I can't find it. Anyone got a link to the video in question? I'm slightly curious.

Search YouTube for "The Alt-Right in Tabletop Games". Currently it comes up as the top hit, followed by Grim Jim's rebuttal video (#TTRPG #DnD RESPONSE: "The Alt-Right in Tabletop Games") as the second hit.

I'm not posting the direct link because the video has doxxing info in it and I don't know that Pundit would be cool with that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 29, 2022, 06:34:20 PM
I can't find it. Anyone got a link to the video in question? I'm slightly curious.

Search YouTube for "The Alt-Right in Tabletop Games". Currently it comes up as the top hit, followed by Grim Jim's rebuttal video (#TTRPG #DnD RESPONSE: "The Alt-Right in Tabletop Games") as the second hit.

I'm not posting the direct link because the video has doxxing info in it and I don't know that Pundit would be cool with that.

Thankyew.

*add*

Yeah, I made it about 20 mins in and it's all the usual stuff. Hardly worth even a commentary from me, except as a proper follow up for asking about it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on January 30, 2022, 06:16:24 PM
I found Grim Jim had some interesting takes until the Rittenhouse trial broke him.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 31, 2022, 11:17:13 AM
Someone eats a three-day for remarking on how bad Kickstarted products can be.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/kingpin000-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-threadban.893088/

Now, full disclosure, I did back the HBS Battletech kickstarter and got some neat stuff out of it as well as a pretty decent BT game. But I also know there have been some very well publicized disasters. It amuses me to see Dawgstar simping so hard against anyone who questions the quality of the products (the whining about how 'Made in China' is a poor look is a cute touch).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on January 31, 2022, 01:48:33 PM
Someone eats a three-day for remarking on how bad Kickstarted products can be.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/kingpin000-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-threadban.893088/

Now, full disclosure, I did back the HBS Battletech kickstarter and got some neat stuff out of it as well as a pretty decent BT game. But I also know there have been some very well publicized disasters. It amuses me to see Dawgstar simping so hard against anyone who questions the quality of the products (the whining about how 'Made in China' is a poor look is a cute touch).

   I was struck by the bit about how 'the forums are deeply uninterested' after the thread had reached its fifth page ...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 31, 2022, 01:57:49 PM
I've seen two bans now that state 'personal attacks in reports are not allowed'.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/swamplor-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban.893007/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/nikkiro-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban.893098/

Which makes my antennae go up, because you wonder; was it actually a personal attack, or is the staffer just running interference for a friend and doesn't like that someone's pointing out a problem?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Nephil on January 31, 2022, 06:14:52 PM
I've seen two bans now that state 'personal attacks in reports are not allowed'.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/swamplor-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban.893007/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/nikkiro-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban.893098/

Which makes my antennae go up, because you wonder; was it actually a personal attack, or is the staffer just running interference for a friend and doesn't like that someone's pointing out a problem?

Maybe it was, or maybe it wasn't. The important thing is that both or the perps are members since 2009, long enough to know that you should avoid rocking the boat since the sword cuts both ways. Never draw any attention to yourself.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on February 01, 2022, 12:53:32 PM
I can't find it. Anyone got a link to the video in question? I'm slightly curious.

Search YouTube for "The Alt-Right in Tabletop Games". Currently it comes up as the top hit, followed by Grim Jim's rebuttal video (#TTRPG #DnD RESPONSE: "The Alt-Right in Tabletop Games") as the second hit.

I'm not posting the direct link because the video has doxxing info in it and I don't know that Pundit would be cool with that.

Thankyew.

*add*

Yeah, I made it about 20 mins in and it's all the usual stuff. Hardly worth even a commentary from me, except as a proper follow up for asking about it.

The tale of the initial experiment is interesting - even if it is unacademic to draw any conclusion from a single, unsupervised, not peer-reviewed experiment.

But, boy, the rest is a mess. I reached the 30 minutes mark before defaulting - and, full disclosure here - I'm even center-left. Someone who can't understand the difference between Trump being elected in 2016 and what 1939 meant for a Polish individual shouldn't be allowed to drive a car.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Redwanderer on February 01, 2022, 03:22:28 PM
How many people been banned here and why? Is there a list?

Although I got a good idea why as usual with the 92%- squabbling, fear, no unity, the usual.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 01, 2022, 03:39:10 PM
How many people been banned here and why? Is there a list?

Although I got a good idea why as usual with the 92%- squabbling, fear, no unity, the usual.
That would require a census and I'm not bored enough for that.

I will note that TBP's moderation is incredibly inconsistent and heavily biased in favor of 'someone took offense to what you said'. No matter how innocuous or innocent, if someone misinterprets it (intentionally or not), it's your (digital) head on the block. Add in the massive idpol infiltration and posting there is like navigating an unmarked minefield.

If you're curious, go through their Infractions forum and look up who ate bans. Several people posted links to said bans in this thread as well as the old TBP thread. I would note that the moderation team is NOT restricted to the rules in the same way posters are at TBP; they can get away with some fairly rancid commentary, especially in their snotty little redtexts (which, might I add, posters are not allowed to respond to).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Redwanderer on February 01, 2022, 03:53:58 PM
I posted something about why the corner is NOT being turned against the woke and why it'll never be. It includes how the damn 92% is always tearing each other apart and doing the 8%s work for them.

It also says that there is no loyalty with the 92%. You tell me- did ANYONE ever really stand up for anyone banned here? I'm betting a pot of gold no. So if Pundit and his site gets banned for saying bad things about the woke nobody will say anything for him.

I want that list to know why people been banned. Then again, I already know why. Hey, Pundit, it's not the 8% ever going to get what's coming to them it's the 92% for their cowardice as surely as what happened in the 1930s with the commie gulags.

What in blazes is idpol?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on February 01, 2022, 04:08:38 PM
I lasted 15 minutes of the fat neckbeard pointing at "Nazi's, Nazi's everywhere" boring rant, and that was with the 5 first minutes of him just going through "the Wave".

Grimjims rebuttal was much more entertaining.

I thought so too. Funnily enough I thought the dude was similar to Isis or Alqaida. Reason being is that drab wall, dark lighting, and some stupid wall hanging that reminded me of vids I've seen of those extremist groups.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 01, 2022, 04:18:53 PM
I posted something about why the corner is NOT being turned against the woke and why it'll never be. It includes how the damn 92% is always tearing each other apart and doing the 8%s work for them.

It also says that there is no loyalty with the 92%. You tell me- did ANYONE ever really stand up for anyone banned here? I'm betting a pot of gold no. So if Pundit and his site gets banned for saying bad things about the woke nobody will say anything for him.

I want that list to know why people been banned. Then again, I already know why. Hey, Pundit, it's not the 8% ever going to get what's coming to them it's the 92% for their cowardice as surely as what happened in the 1930s with the commie gulags.

What in blazes is idpol?
Identity politics.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on February 01, 2022, 04:50:39 PM
It also says that there is no loyalty with the 92%. You tell me- did ANYONE ever really stand up for anyone banned here? I'm betting a pot of gold no. So if Pundit and his site gets banned for saying bad things about the woke nobody will say anything for him.

Yeah, why is no one standing up for the anti-semitic sock puppets?

Another one of those mysteries I guess.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on February 01, 2022, 05:39:53 PM
Ah, I remember the Good Ol' Days when RPGnet was all about the RPGs -- back before there were forums of any kind.

Then the forums showed up, the politics showed up, Tangency was set up as a sewer system for the politics, and the sewer overflowed and overran the entire site.

It's a shame. It was a great place once.

I only go there these days to look up one of the many reviews I posted there. If I could, I'd move them all en masse to my blog.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on February 01, 2022, 06:26:28 PM
How many people been banned here and why? Is there a list?
I got threadbanned over there for suggesting that Libyan refugess really enjoy raping French girls.
I also got threadbanned for posting Tim Kaine clown memes.
I found it humorous.  But that was before the TDS kicked in 2017.
I'd surely be completely banned for any of the above today since they ratcheted things up.
I bet I'd be banned for posts made here since I use the same userid on all the RPG forums, since they like to do that.
They are right about one thing.  I'm not a "good fit" for their forum.


Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on February 01, 2022, 06:51:37 PM
Ah, I remember the Good Ol' Days when RPGnet was all about the RPGs -- back before there were forums of any kind.
What was RPGnet before it was a forum?
 I used to follow usenet groups rec.games.frp, rec.games.frp.dnd and alt.games.rpg
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on February 01, 2022, 06:59:39 PM
Ah, I remember the Good Ol' Days when RPGnet was all about the RPGs -- back before there were forums of any kind.
What was RPGnet before it was a forum?
 I used to follow usenet groups rec.games.frp, rec.games.frp.dnd and alt.games.rpg

Originally, RPGnet was all reviews and articles. Then feedback forums appeared for the reviews, and eventually a single general-purpose forum was added. Eventually, off-topic posts started crowding out the actual gaming discussion, and so Tangency was born.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 01, 2022, 09:34:20 PM
I don't know if you could 'fix' TBP at this point (short of firing every mod, gutting the forum rules, and starting over).

I would definitely put Tangency out of its misery, though.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Godfather Punk on February 02, 2022, 02:35:49 AM
I remember the time when A2K (dunno if she was already a mod at the time) chided people for finding the word 'niggardly' offensive, as it was a perfectly good English word with no etymological roots in racism. Nowadays she would probably get banned for minimizing the plight of afro-americans.

I remember a time when Gareth-Michael Skarka lamented the fact that people on the internet got more and more isolated in separate monochrome echo chambers where no argument was possible because all opposing views were in another group and nobody was interested in hearing or learning the other side. Nowadays that attitude would get him canned for wanting to give a platform to Trump, ICE, cops and conservatives. Or he'd be a mod himself.

I remember when I enjoyed the RPGPundit's reviews and IIRC gaming column. He may have been abrasive in his comments but nowhere near as infantile as the guy who wrote that FATAL review (which I never found funny). Nowadays he would probably get banned for being too negativ... wait!

I remember when the rules were "Don't post spam, porn or illegal stuff and don't be a dick(m/f)" instead of the legalese brick they are today.

Oh, well. I totally missed my anniversary of quitting the site for good. I sometimes miss the good parts but I get that those are mostly nostalgic memories, from a different decade. To quote one of their mods "Fuck them, with a shovel. Sideways."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on February 02, 2022, 08:50:04 AM
How many people been banned here and why? Is there a list?
I got threadbanned over there for suggesting that Libyan refugess really enjoy raping French girls.
I also got threadbanned for posting Tim Kaine clown memes.
I found it humorous.  But that was before the TDS kicked in 2017.
I'd surely be completely banned for any of the above today since they ratcheted things up.
I bet I'd be banned for posts made here since I use the same userid on all the RPG forums, since they like to do that.
They are right about one thing.  I'm not a "good fit" for their forum.

Threadbanned? Psh.

Observe:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/tension-between-inclusiveness-and-cultural-appropriation.852534/#post-22827534 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/tension-between-inclusiveness-and-cultural-appropriation.852534/#post-22827534)

The irony is that they spent numerous pages after that trying to prove me wrong (and failing.)

One of the theologians I respect is the late Francis Shaeffer, who said, "if there is no absolute by which to judge society, society is absolute." This is the story of RPG.net; like much of the left, they have abandoned any moral foundation, so they can only maintain the forum through arbitrary and excessively punitive moderation.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 02, 2022, 09:25:58 AM
Q99 is a fucking retard, like most of the TBP mods.

There are two bans that occurred later on where one guy was banned for 'cultural appropriation' while the other was banned for 'marginalizing'. Exactly what you had pointed out.

Not to mention the fact that cultural appropriation is a crock of shit. I am particularly amused at Q99 conflating stolen valor with cultural appropriation, though.

Honestly, my response would be, 'If you want to go down this road, fine. Shall we discuss all the white inventions and concepts 'appropriated' by others?'

But then, I'd get banned too.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on February 02, 2022, 10:49:17 AM
I got my first ban for saying something true about D&D.  That being that as the game with the lion's share of gamers it also had the lion's share of "cat piss men."  Now, admittedly I'd taken to trolling D&D threads but there wasn't a word I said that wasn't simple fact.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 02, 2022, 11:42:37 AM
I got my first ban for saying something true about D&D.  That being that as the game with the lion's share of gamers it also had the lion's share of "cat piss men."  Now, admittedly I'd taken to trolling D&D threads but there wasn't a word I said that wasn't simple fact.
That's just simple percentages and numbers though.

If you figure 2 percent of people in X hobby are going to be jackasses, then if a hobby has 100 persons, 2 will be shit. But if you have a hobby with 10,000 persons, 200 will be shit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on February 02, 2022, 02:29:21 PM
Yeah, I've only caught a couple bans over the years, but that one's my favorite.  That's why I signed on to the GMS don't report pact.  It was already clear that Darren was a power mad ass hat who pursued his own agendas and policies.  I got a ban a while back for saying that the Catholic church in GURPS Banestorm wouldn't approve of sex with slaves as it was extramarital.  I got a week for making a "rape joke."  I actually expected a warning for a "Catholic joke."  Imagine my surprise.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on February 02, 2022, 03:19:14 PM
I actually expected a warning for a "Catholic joke."  Imagine my surprise.

That's 'cause Catholics get spiritual credit for putting up with jokes about us, so we don't object to it.  ;)  ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 02, 2022, 03:20:49 PM
Yeah, I've only caught a couple bans over the years, but that one's my favorite.  That's why I signed on to the GMS don't report pact.  It was already clear that Darren was a power mad ass hat who pursued his own agendas and policies.  I got a ban a while back for saying that the Catholic church in GURPS Banestorm wouldn't approve of sex with slaves as it was extramarital.  I got a week for making a "rape joke."  I actually expected a warning for a "Catholic joke."  Imagine my surprise.
The GMS don't report pact? I am curious.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on February 02, 2022, 05:29:35 PM
Q99 is a fucking retard, like most of the TBP mods.

There are two bans that occurred later on where one guy was banned for 'cultural appropriation' while the other was banned for 'marginalizing'. Exactly what you had pointed out.

Not to mention the fact that cultural appropriation is a crock of shit. I am particularly amused at Q99 conflating stolen valor with cultural appropriation, though.

Honestly, my response would be, 'If you want to go down this road, fine. Shall we discuss all the white inventions and concepts 'appropriated' by others?'

But then, I'd get banned too.

I didn't know that! That makes this even better!

Really, my only regret is that I should have summed things up with another buzzword they probably actually would understand, "rent seeking," because it's obvious from Q99's bafflingly vapid reply that my post went over quite a few heads. Apparently saying something the moderator doesn't understand is a bannable offense. The moderators do not understand many things, therefore there are many bans.

Yeah, I've only caught a couple bans over the years, but that one's my favorite.  That's why I signed on to the GMS don't report pact.  It was already clear that Darren was a power mad ass hat who pursued his own agendas and policies.  I got a ban a while back for saying that the Catholic church in GURPS Banestorm wouldn't approve of sex with slaves as it was extramarital.  I got a week for making a "rape joke."  I actually expected a warning for a "Catholic joke."  Imagine my surprise.
The GMS don't report pact? I am curious.

I, too, am curious. What is this GMS don't report pact?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on February 02, 2022, 07:50:21 PM
Back in the first mod war back when Red Redder Reddest and Theron's cool kid gang dominated Tangency, Gareth Michael Skarka suggested that the mods could be resisted by simply not reporting people.  It was shortly before the whole "ban me motherfucker" incident.  Of course, at that time, the mods being rude and obnoxious to people was part of the forum culture and you can guess who was the loudest mouth going.  The problem was that modding that way had set the tone for the forum.  The snarkiness and argumentative attitudes and even the dog piling were not just approved of by the mods, they would actually leave white supremacist threads open for people to "play with".  I'm not saying it was right.  I'm not saying I was innocent.  Heck I've still got a bit of a trolling habit.  What I am saying is that the moderation style set the tone and as moderation increasingly policed snark with snark it created some issues.

I think these days they're so afraid of contention and controversy they're like Elmer Fudd trying to hit a rabbit with his shotgun.  Well, that and their reading comprehension has fallen to the kindergarten level.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on February 02, 2022, 08:34:35 PM
I actually expected a warning for a "Catholic joke."  Imagine my surprise.

That's 'cause Catholics get spiritual credit for putting up with jokes about us, so we don't object to it.  ;)  ;D

  Catholics are protected on RPGNet, but only insofar as they are victims who really sympathize with TBP's proto-Antichristianity. :D From moderation back in 2020:

Quote
"Please refrain from attacking the Catholic Church en masse, as that constitutes a group attack on millions of adherents who all have vastly different levels of social constraint on being Catholic, participating in Catholic traditions and practices, and authority within the Church devising and enacting policies. If you have an issue with an organization's* policies and practices, or its leadership, please be specific. This is a warning.

* Except ICE. Fuck ICE.**

** (And CBP)."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 04, 2022, 08:12:42 AM
Is it just me or is there an uptick in sockpuppet bans on TBP? It just seems like someone's trying to make a return (why they would want to do so is beyond me).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 04, 2022, 10:19:35 PM
And here I thought it was getting slow. LOL.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/bellerophon-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-transphobia.893311/

So, Sphinx, what 'transphobic talking points' was he repeating?

Also, alas, NovemberNighte, they hardly knew ye.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/novembernighte-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban-rule-0.893302/

Interesting that it's Sphinx in both cases acting as the hatchetman though. Guess it was his turn in the rotation.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KingCheops on February 04, 2022, 11:06:11 PM
Wow Bellerophon was literally asking for help on how to respond to "transphobic" comments and got banned.  What a silly place.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on February 04, 2022, 11:41:48 PM
Wow Bellerophon was literally asking for help on how to respond to "transphobic" comments and got banned.  What a silly place.

You already know the words to shout at Transphobes you bigot!

Educate yourself
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 05, 2022, 12:32:50 PM
And here I thought it was getting slow. LOL.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/bellerophon-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-transphobia.893311/

So, Sphinx, what 'transphobic talking points' was he repeating?

Also, alas, NovemberNighte, they hardly knew ye.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/novembernighte-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban-rule-0.893302/

Interesting that it's Sphinx in both cases acting as the hatchetman though. Guess it was his turn in the rotation.

  I think it is obvious what his talking points were...the crazy notion that men who pretend to be women will have a decided advantage in competitive sports against real women.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on February 05, 2022, 07:32:20 PM
This may be a new one: A three-day ban for a mistake made while praising TBP's moderation:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/bigdy-mcken-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban.893357/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/bigdy-mcken-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban.893357/)

Quote
Quote
Are fantasy Dwarves a parody of Dwarfism?

rstites said:
Quote
I appreciate the link as I had no idea what symbol was being referenced. Sometimes, I really wish I didn't learn new things in this vein quite so often.

One thing I enjoy about this site: I feel like other online communities have this weird social contract where the mods/admins feel compelled to play with alt/right "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!" games. RPGNET recognizes dog whistles for what they are and responds accordingly. I like seeing them Reeeeeee! after they catch a ban because they found out their shitty nazi sophistry armor isn't as bulletproof as they thought.
Moderator Text:
On the topic of of dogwhistles, 'Reeeeeee! is an ableist one intended to mock and hurt people on the autism spectrum and also not acceptable on RPGnet. We are giving you three days off, and suggest that you reread our rules and guidelines. Appeals go to the admin email.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on February 05, 2022, 07:36:47 PM
So, Sphinx, what 'transphobic talking points' was he repeating?
This would be called "concern trolling" in some of the communities I frequent. At least, it would be if it were actual concern trolling. More likely it's a genuine question asked by a person who is doing their best to navigate the Orwellian hell-scape that is TBP.

Quote
Also, alas, NovemberNighte, they hardly knew ye.
I read some of the other posts this user was banned for, and they were all well-reasoned and intelligent. It makes me wonder if TBP mods hate intelligence as much as they hate thought-crime. They probably feel threatened by anyone who has the intellectual wherewithal to see through their bullshit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on February 05, 2022, 08:14:35 PM
Oh, yeah, and sometimes a Dwarf is just a Dwarf.  I've been needing to say that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on February 05, 2022, 08:27:23 PM
Oh, yeah, and sometimes a Dwarf is just a Dwarf.  I've been needing to say that.

Short and to the point. OF THE AXE! (ba-dump-KSSSH!)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on February 05, 2022, 08:29:19 PM
Quote
On the topic of of dogwhistles, 'Reeeeeee! is an ableist one intended to mock and hurt people on the autism spectrum and also not acceptable on RPGnet.

Wow -- when did this become an accepted interpretation?  I'd never heard of it as referring to anything other than Donald Sutherland's famous point-and-shriek image from the end of the '78 Body Snatchers.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trinculoisdead on February 05, 2022, 09:22:54 PM
That's the fringe interpretation I believe.

Reeing is autistic screeching. Has been ever since kids throwing tantrums in videos was first associated with autism.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on February 06, 2022, 12:13:17 PM
That's the fringe interpretation I believe.

Reeing is autistic screeching. Has been ever since kids throwing tantrums in videos was first associated with autism.

  That appears to be the case on doing research, but it's not self-evident, and I'm not convinced it merits a 3-day ban ... but then, that's assuming good faith and consistency on the part of TBP's moderation, which is a mug's game. :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on February 06, 2022, 01:44:05 PM
Well, you learn something new every day. It's just not always a happy-making something.   :o
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on February 07, 2022, 11:50:33 PM
Well, poor Bellerophon has been knocked forever off his Pegasus:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/bellerophon-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-racism-transphobia-and-chronic-trolling.893434/#post-24240575

I suppose I was already mostly certain that TBP's moderation policy allowed for no possible good-faith grounds for disagreeing with CRT or other such Woke theories and policies, but it's still a little dismaying to see it so explicitly laid out.

I can now say I have seen the wholesale political capture of a community to such a degree that I no longer feel myself welcome in it, and it saddens me because such communities were once one of the few places I did feel welcome.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 07, 2022, 11:59:44 PM
Well, poor Bellerophon has been knocked forever off his Pegasus:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/bellerophon-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-racism-transphobia-and-chronic-trolling.893434/#post-24240575

I suppose I was already mostly certain that TBP's moderation policy allowed for no possible good-faith grounds for disagreeing with CRT or other such Woke theories and policies, but it's still a little dismaying to see it so explicitly laid out.

"There's a lot to unpack here" is code for "Here comes the bullshit rationalizations for why we're going to slap your ass down."

Quote
I can now say I have seen the wholesale political capture of a community to such a degree that I no longer feel myself welcome in it, and it saddens me because such communities were once one of the few places I did feel welcome.

I sympathize. I spent many years at RPG.net, discussing games and stuff. I was a member of the Blacksky Company (made up of primarily rpg.net members) guild in World of Warcraft.
Leaving was emotionally hard, as much as some people might scoff at that idea.
But I also realized that staying would mean putting up with some really odious behavior, and a background radiation of ideology that I couldn't stand anymore.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on February 08, 2022, 12:53:31 AM

I sympathize. I spent many years at RPG.net, discussing games and stuff. I was a member of the Blacksky Company (made up of primarily rpg.net members) guild in World of Warcraft.
Leaving was emotionally hard, as much as some people might scoff at that idea.
But I also realized that staying would mean putting up with some really odious behavior, and a background radiation of ideology that I couldn't stand anymore.

Right there with you.  I went to a nearby state meet-up and had a blast.  I was in the Pig and Whistle Society for a few years.  TBP was one of my communities, and leaving it hurt.  However, it wasn’t the same place I joined, and it sure isn’t now.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 08, 2022, 08:09:12 AM
I have to admit, watching Sphinx gaslight the fuck out of their readers by using the classic 'CRT doesn't exist!!1' is pretty disturbing.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 08, 2022, 04:11:20 PM
So I do read TBP beyond the Infractions forum. It's amusing to crack open a Tangency Open thread and see how far they've vanished up their own assholes.

(It's a shame too, because the Tabletop Open forum has some decent threads. But I'd sooner eat broken glass than post there.)

Anyways, they were crying about the failure of the California legislature to pass a statewide universal healthcare bill. It didn't even get to a vote, just died in committee.

Three pages of posts blaming voter suppression, bad optics for progressives, rich donors get more mileage than constituents... and not a single one of these morons asks, 'But how much would it cost?' (HINT: a lot).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on February 08, 2022, 04:57:57 PM
Three pages of posts blaming voter suppression, bad optics for progressives, rich donors get more mileage than constituents... and not a single one of these morons asks, 'But how much would it cost?' (HINT: a lot).

I suppose it's hard to fault amateur politicians for never contemplating costs and debts when most of the professionals go out of their way to kick the can down the road whenever the topic comes up.

Then again, given the goal of every professional politician is to get elected, perhaps that choice too is understandable. I don't remember the last politician who made "This would be nice but we can't afford it" or "We're going to tax-gouge everybody, not just the rich" a plank in a winning platform.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 08, 2022, 10:41:31 PM
I have to admit, watching Sphinx gaslight the fuck out of their readers by using the classic 'CRT doesn't exist!!1' is pretty disturbing.

And debunked with a ten second google search.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/08/teachers-union-president-randi-weingarten-defends-critical-race-theory/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on February 08, 2022, 11:51:21 PM
Three pages of posts blaming voter suppression, bad optics for progressives, rich donors get more mileage than constituents... and not a single one of these morons asks, 'But how much would it cost?' (HINT: a lot).

But Ghostmaker, California is the worlds 5th largest economy.  Shirley it can afford universal healthcare.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 09, 2022, 12:33:29 AM
  I hope California passes healthcare for all, and UBI, and I hope they get a mass immigration from other states of people who want to enjoy those things.  They are losing population, and that would be a great way for them to replace their losses.   Of course the tax base might keep taking a hard hit, but at least Cali will not have to defend losing population any more.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 09, 2022, 08:15:39 AM
I have to admit, watching Sphinx gaslight the fuck out of their readers by using the classic 'CRT doesn't exist!!1' is pretty disturbing.

And debunked with a ten second google search.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/08/teachers-union-president-randi-weingarten-defends-critical-race-theory/
'The NY Post is a right wing hate site and is lying.'

Like I said. It's gaslighting now and forever.

In other news, objecting to slurs will get you banned: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-fireproof-witch-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-anti-trans-bigotry.893482/

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 09, 2022, 04:19:38 PM
I just wish they'd PLAY some of these games they talk about.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/shadowrun-rewrite-metahumanity-and-racial-allegory.893509/

One of the things they whine about in this thread is the 'lifespan' issue in SR (where orks and trolls had shorter lifespans than even humans did). Great, but there's just one problem: this was already addressed in one of the later 5E sourcebooks, where it's retconned as a result of poor statistical analysis.

All they exist to do is complain about games they don't play.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on February 09, 2022, 05:27:09 PM
I just wish they'd PLAY some of these games they talk about.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/shadowrun-rewrite-metahumanity-and-racial-allegory.893509/

One of the things they whine about in this thread is the 'lifespan' issue in SR (where orks and trolls had shorter lifespans than even humans did). Great, but there's just one problem: this was already addressed in one of the later 5E sourcebooks, where it's retconned as a result of poor statistical analysis.

All they exist to do is complain about games they don't play.

Famously in Shadowrun only black people turn into Orcs and Trolls and only white people into Elves.

Or so I imagine.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KingCheops on February 09, 2022, 08:58:02 PM
I just wish they'd PLAY some of these games they talk about.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/shadowrun-rewrite-metahumanity-and-racial-allegory.893509/

One of the things they whine about in this thread is the 'lifespan' issue in SR (where orks and trolls had shorter lifespans than even humans did). Great, but there's just one problem: this was already addressed in one of the later 5E sourcebooks, where it's retconned as a result of poor statistical analysis.

All they exist to do is complain about games they don't play.

Famously in Shadowrun only black people turn into Orcs and Trolls and only white people into Elves.

Or so I imagine.

And only midgets of any race into dwarfs.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on February 10, 2022, 05:17:20 PM
I just wish they'd PLAY some of these games they talk about.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/shadowrun-rewrite-metahumanity-and-racial-allegory.893509/

One of the things they whine about in this thread is the 'lifespan' issue in SR (where orks and trolls had shorter lifespans than even humans did). Great, but there's just one problem: this was already addressed in one of the later 5E sourcebooks, where it's retconned as a result of poor statistical analysis.

All they exist to do is complain about games they don't play.

Famously in Shadowrun only black people turn into Orcs and Trolls and only white people into Elves.

Or so I imagine.

And only midgets of any race into dwarfs.

What about Dark Elves?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on February 10, 2022, 07:24:01 PM
What about Dark Elves?

I think the closest thing to that is the Banshee, which is what elves turn into when they contract the HMHVV (Human-MetaHuman Vampiric Virus).

Of course, in the new edition, that particular creature is called the Banthey.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 10, 2022, 09:26:24 PM
I believe there was a SURGE subvariant of elf that developed a fine fuzz on their skin and turned a dark purple. They wound up getting hung with the sobriquet 'muppets'.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 10, 2022, 11:02:55 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/astralrunner-receives-a-🚫-seven-day-ban-white-supremist-takes.893594/

Jesus Christ. I cannot even begin to grasp how you get from 'Ruby Ridge is a bad precedent to use' to 'white supremacy'.

I am mad as hell. Just remember, folks: this is what they think of you. They really do want you dead, and your name smeared.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 10, 2022, 11:13:03 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/astralrunner-receives-a-🚫-seven-day-ban-white-supremist-takes.893594/

Jesus Christ. I cannot even begin to grasp how you get from 'Ruby Ridge is a bad precedent to use' to 'white supremacy'.

I am mad as hell. Just remember, folks: this is what they think of you. They really do want you dead, and your name smeared.

  Well, it would appear as just stating the truth is white supremacy, is what I got from that.  Which is especially dumb because Weaver was a separatist, not a supremacist.  It is almost like those dumbasses only learn key trigger words, and an alarm goes off in their head, like the Bride from Kill Bill, and they just hit the plunger with no other thought or justification.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on February 11, 2022, 12:17:12 AM
Warhammer's Dark Elves have pale skin because it's always raining in Nagaroth.  Dark Conspiracy's Dark Elves are a nasty bunch who pass for human celebrities and live to cause pain and suffering.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on February 11, 2022, 09:21:36 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/astralrunner-receives-a-🚫-seven-day-ban-white-supremist-takes.893594/

Jesus Christ. I cannot even begin to grasp how you get from 'Ruby Ridge is a bad precedent to use' to 'white supremacy'.

I am mad as hell. Just remember, folks: this is what they think of you. They really do want you dead, and your name smeared.

  They explain their 'reasoning' here (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/what-counts-as-white-nationalist-talking-points.893596/post-24245240). Short answer: If you have not pledged yourself to the Dragon and the Beast, you will automatically be presumed guilty of malevolence and bad faith, and no defense may be offered. ;)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 11, 2022, 11:28:21 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/astralrunner-receives-a-🚫-seven-day-ban-white-supremist-takes.893594/

Jesus Christ. I cannot even begin to grasp how you get from 'Ruby Ridge is a bad precedent to use' to 'white supremacy'.

I am mad as hell. Just remember, folks: this is what they think of you. They really do want you dead, and your name smeared.

  They explain their 'reasoning' here (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/what-counts-as-white-nationalist-talking-points.893596/post-24245240). Short answer: If you have not pledged yourself to the Dragon and the Beast, you will automatically be presumed guilty of malevolence and bad faith, and no defense may be offered. ;)
Yeah, I saw that. Some choice bits:

Quote
Context matters. AstralRunner's post is a response to another poster talking about how Ruby Ridge was the government "coming down hard on right wing groups" and how it led to a rise in recruitment for various right-wing militias and since then the US government has avoided the massive and unconstitutional violence like at Ruby Ridge (avoided it if the people are white and conservative, anyway). Since the concern here appears to be truth, it is important to note that the poster being replied to is factually correct. From the moderating team's perspective, there is nothing disingenuous about Count Zero's post.
A sudden interest in context (which really has never bothered TBP's mods before) and a little race baiting. Classy as always, Fuckadelic, you moron.

Quote
AstralRunner then charges in and accuses the poster of "divisive, pro-police propaganda" and repeating the "government's logic". The latter complaint is, frankly, nonsensical. Yes, of course that was the logic used to justify the abuses. That the feds engaged in flagrant abuses of power does not in any way negate that the target of those flagrant abuses was a target because he was a far right extremist. That second bit is the reason Ruby Ridge became such a wellspring of right-wing-talking points.
This is particularly amusing in light of:

(a) TBP's full throated support for BLM.
(b) their refusal to accept ANY justification for police-involved deaths.

What I'm taking away from this is that Funkadelic (and by extension, his fellow mods) are perfectly accepting of police violence so long as it is directed at their sociopolitical opponents.

Quote
Describing the post as "divisive" is a red flag here. That is the same terminology currently being used to ban books about segregation and other abuses against people of color. "Pro-police propoganda" doesn't make sense as the post being responded to is about the aftereffects of siege and why the government doesn't do that any more (although again, that only applies for white conservatives).
Actually, the reason the government pulled its horns in, post Ruby Ridge and Waco, is that the PR and imaging were a complete disaster. Not until the Malheur Refuge incident (where Lavoy  Finnicum was killed) did they reach for an overt hard option again. And that didn't do them any favors either as the Malheur occupiers walked twice.

Divisive? Damned straight. And if Fuckadelic had any class he'd be trying to reach common ground, not going out of his way to tell people how much they suck for being concerned about something.

Quote
AR is specifically responding to a post speculating about why the feds stopped coming down hard on right wing extremists with a post that seems to be arguing either that Randy Weaver wasn't targeted for being a right wing extremist (he was) or arguing that the government didn't end up coming down hard on them (they did, but they got in trouble for it afterward). That framing is the problem. It turns out you don't "gotta hand it to them".
About the only bit in this tirade that actually makes sense. All the feds managed to prove, in the wake of Ruby Ridge, was how far they would go to target someone who annoyed them.

Quote
The entire post is a bad-faith attempt to derail the conversation. The modstaff is under no obligation to treat it as anything other than that. People who are worried about the prison conditions of Jan. 6th insurrections do not actually care about general prison conditions. "Free Speech" advocates who are also cheering bans on "CRT" are not actually in favor of freedom of speech. This is no different.
Fuckadelic and the rest of TBP's mods do not moderate in good faith to start with, so their accusations of 'bad faith posting' are garbage as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 11, 2022, 12:35:27 PM
  I think TBP raced past full throated support of BLM to deep throated support to be honest.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 11, 2022, 01:30:46 PM
Wow, a took a longer look at the folks banned.  Some of the threads and reasons for banning are crazy.  I guess the good news is from I can gather, it seems a good number of them are all for amicable divorce as a nation.   I am not sure they are as for the amicable part, but I am giving benefit of the doubt.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on February 11, 2022, 02:00:50 PM
Bannings for imagined slights and tone and content have been the order of the day pretty much since Trump got elected.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 11, 2022, 02:10:04 PM
Bannings for imagined slights and tone and content have been the order of the day pretty much since Trump got elected.

  I know it, but it is still shocking to me to go back and see the justifications.  I guess if I saw them all time it would be different.  I remember when people did talk RPGs, and the tangency had at least some level of discussion.  I am not sure what a discussion could look like at this point.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on February 11, 2022, 03:09:28 PM
What I'm taking away from this is that Funkadelic (and by extension, his fellow mods) are perfectly accepting of police violence so long as it is directed at their sociopolitical opponents.

You are coming to that conclusion just now?  Huh.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 11, 2022, 03:11:01 PM
What I'm taking away from this is that Funkadelic (and by extension, his fellow mods) are perfectly accepting of police violence so long as it is directed at their sociopolitical opponents.

You are coming to that conclusion just now?  Huh.
It's always nice when the targets self-identify.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on February 11, 2022, 06:12:15 PM
I'm just going to drop this because it explains so much of the insanity. Snowflakes are very easy to trigger, but it also helps if you have defense funding from the 1960s and 70s literally telling you how to push someone's buttons more effectively.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on February 11, 2022, 06:22:34 PM

It's always nice when the targets self-identify.

That's one of the big advantages of free speech.  The enemy generally identifies themself.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on February 13, 2022, 08:17:50 AM
Rpg.net is an important resource for me for two reasons;

1. With regard to real life it is a fascinating case study and microcosm of what living in a an extreme left wing society would be like. If you assume that banned means killed or sent to a gulag then it is quite educational and chilling in equal measure.  Particularly interesting is the fact that many, many of those banned actually subscribe to extreme left wing ideology but got caught up in "wrong think" because they couldn't keep up with mercurial nature of that ideology (also likely that internal power struggles and ego trips play a part with the modding but I am not familiar enough with the internal dramas to identify this). This is a very similar phenomenon as occured in the very worst days of the Soviet Union and Stalin.

2. From a GMing perspective then without any irony I use rpg.net as a direct inspiration for how the Administratum and Commissariat acts in the WH40K games I run. To the extent that over the years I have used some modding ban reasons as the basis for handouts to players.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on February 13, 2022, 04:36:40 PM
Rpg.net is an important resource for me for two reasons;

1. With regard to real life it is a fascinating case study and microcosm of what living in a an extreme left wing society would be like. If you assume that banned means killed or sent to a gulag then it is quite educational and chilling in equal measure.  Particularly interesting is the fact that many, many of those banned actually subscribe to extreme left wing ideology but got caught up in "wrong think" because they couldn't keep up with mercurial nature of that ideology (also likely that internal power struggles and ego trips play a part with the modding but I am not familiar enough with the internal dramas to identify this). This is a very similar phenomenon as occured in the very worst days of the Soviet Union and Stalin.

2. From a GMing perspective then without any irony I use rpg.net as a direct inspiration for how the Administratum and Commissariat acts in the WH40K games I run. To the extent that over the years I have used some modding ban reasons as the basis for handouts to players.

To me, there is a better comparison to the Maoist struggle sessions.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 18, 2022, 07:58:54 AM
To the shock of absolutely no one at all, AstralRunner has joined the choir unspeakable on TBP.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/astralrunner-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-bad-fit-for-rpgnet.893937/

I would like to note that Astralrunner's singular 'anti-semitic' post seems to consist of pointing out that it wasn't just Jews who perished in the Holocaust. However, the 'defending pedophilia' post doesn't seem to exist. Quelle surprise.



Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 18, 2022, 10:44:59 AM
To the shock of absolutely no one at all, AstralRunner has joined the choir unspeakable on TBP.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/astralrunner-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-bad-fit-for-rpgnet.893937/

I would like to note that Astralrunner's singular 'anti-semitic' post seems to consist of pointing out that it wasn't just Jews who perished in the Holocaust. However, the 'defending pedophilia' post doesn't seem to exist. Quelle surprise.

 I still wonder where the white supremacists pass down their talking points to their avid (and apparently much more numerous than I imagined) followers.   How long before endorsing the benefits of being a vegetarian or being an animal lover are white supremacist talking points?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 18, 2022, 11:32:46 AM
To the shock of absolutely no one at all, AstralRunner has joined the choir unspeakable on TBP.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/astralrunner-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-bad-fit-for-rpgnet.893937/

I would like to note that Astralrunner's singular 'anti-semitic' post seems to consist of pointing out that it wasn't just Jews who perished in the Holocaust. However, the 'defending pedophilia' post doesn't seem to exist. Quelle surprise.

 I still wonder where the white supremacists pass down their talking points to their avid (and apparently much more numerous than I imagined) followers.   How long before endorsing the benefits of being a vegetarian or being an animal lover are white supremacist talking points?
Why wait? I've literally seen people espousing that punctuality, delayed gratification, and work ethic are symbols of whiteness. Hell, the Smithsonian had an infographic up that they hurriedly yanked down when people pointed out that it was amazingly racist to suggest that such traits were 'white'. And I'm pretty sure there's been at least one article suggesting that owning pets is white supremacy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on February 18, 2022, 11:53:05 AM
This one is weird:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/astralrunner-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-white-supremist-takes.893594/

Perhaps the mods there should read up on just what happened at Ruby Ridge, the rules of engagement the feds had, the results and the settling with the Weavers thereafter.

Any American should be shocked as to the force of the government applied wrongly. That  in and of itself should transcend all politics.

McVeigh and the Branch Dravidians are a separate matter.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 18, 2022, 11:58:47 AM
To the shock of absolutely no one at all, AstralRunner has joined the choir unspeakable on TBP.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/astralrunner-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-bad-fit-for-rpgnet.893937/

I would like to note that Astralrunner's singular 'anti-semitic' post seems to consist of pointing out that it wasn't just Jews who perished in the Holocaust. However, the 'defending pedophilia' post doesn't seem to exist. Quelle surprise.

 I still wonder where the white supremacists pass down their talking points to their avid (and apparently much more numerous than I imagined) followers.   How long before endorsing the benefits of being a vegetarian or being an animal lover are white supremacist talking points?
Why wait? I've literally seen people espousing that punctuality, delayed gratification, and work ethic are symbols of whiteness. Hell, the Smithsonian had an infographic up that they hurriedly yanked down when people pointed out that it was amazingly racist to suggest that such traits were 'white'. And I'm pretty sure there's been at least one article suggesting that owning pets is white supremacy.

  I was actually going ahead and trotting out Godwin, given how certain failed Austrian painters didnt eat meat, and loved critters.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: ThatChrisGuy on February 18, 2022, 12:03:47 PM
This one is weird:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/astralrunner-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-white-supremist-takes.893594/

Perhaps the mods there should read up on just what happened at Ruby Ridge, the rules of engagement the feds had, the results and the settling with the Weavers thereafter.

Any American should be shocked as to the force of the government applied wrongly. That  in and of itself should transcend all politics.

McVeigh and the Branch Dravidians are a separate matter.

Never mind the blatant attempt at entrapment that cause the whole fooferaw in the first place.

(If someone ever asks you to borrow a hacksaw, just say no.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 18, 2022, 12:14:12 PM
And it's getting harder and harder to fool the proles.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/threading-the-needle-for-bad-shit-going-down-is-exhausting.893916/

I admit, I feel pity for hippokrene here. They've discovered that the vague idiot rules TBP runs on are perpetually in flux, and can be used to justify any kind of stupid action by the mods.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 18, 2022, 12:23:06 PM
  It can be hard to read minds, fee fees, and any hormonal/chemical imbalances mods might be feeling due to a change in their medications that day from blockers or other medications to regulate their brain chemistry.   Never understood why they opened an off topic/political forum if you can be so quickly banned for talking about the wrong topic on a forum created for the "wrong" topics.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on February 18, 2022, 01:23:58 PM
The only people at that site I feel the slightest sympathy for are brand-new posters who get banned, because maybe they didn't know what they were getting into.  Anybody who frequents those forums for a month or more knows exactly what the place is like, so they should be expecting to be banned at any time for any reason.  I think I lasted for two posts there back in 2001.  I probably got banned for my last post, but I don't know, I simply quit posting and never went back.  The crowd there coming down on me like a ton of bricks for DARING to express sympathy for the 9/11 victims and disapproval of the Islamic terrorists who carried out the attacks convinced me that the site was nowhere I wanted to spend my free time.  I got called everything from a "Nazi" (??? but of course) to an "Israeli agent" and "Zionist."  While it's true that the mods really went nuts around 2015, the place was awful long before that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on February 18, 2022, 02:46:06 PM
This one is weird:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/astralrunner-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-white-supremist-takes.893594/

Perhaps the mods there should read up on just what happened at Ruby Ridge, the rules of engagement the feds had, the results and the settling with the Weavers thereafter.

Any American should be shocked as to the force of the government applied wrongly. That  in and of itself should transcend all politics.

McVeigh and the Branch Dravidians are a separate matter.

And therein lies the flaw. To them, nothing trumps politics.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 18, 2022, 02:51:19 PM
This one is weird:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/astralrunner-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-white-supremist-takes.893594/

Perhaps the mods there should read up on just what happened at Ruby Ridge, the rules of engagement the feds had, the results and the settling with the Weavers thereafter.

Any American should be shocked as to the force of the government applied wrongly. That  in and of itself should transcend all politics.

McVeigh and the Branch Dravidians are a separate matter.

And therein lies the flaw. To them, nothing trumps politics.
More to the point: nothing trumps their politics.

There's a saying I ran across that is quite appropriate: your speech is violence, but their violence is speech. Anything they do is automatically good, because they are the good guys, and if you disagree you are wrong and possibly a bad person.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 18, 2022, 05:30:47 PM
And it's getting harder and harder to fool the proles.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/threading-the-needle-for-bad-shit-going-down-is-exhausting.893916/

I admit, I feel pity for hippokrene here. They've discovered that the vague idiot rules TBP runs on are perpetually in flux, and can be used to justify any kind of stupid action by the mods.

Closed for press conferencing.

Sometimes it's like watching someone kick a puppy.

(Other times it's like watching puppies eat each other.)

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: AtomicPope on February 18, 2022, 09:18:09 PM
I was really enjoying RPGnet for the Sentinels Comics RPG threads, but that place is insufferable.  I can't go to any other thread because it's basically a trap.  Probably because Sentinels is such a niche product there's no vanity in it.  Overall the situation sux because the Sentinels official forums were dead on arrival but no one from there wanted to go to RPGnet.  This censorious wasteland has been happening with a lot of forums, where they're slowly becoming mini-Reddits.  I noticed this was happening nearly a decade ago on EnWorld, and now it's completely insufferable.  Privateer Press simply abandoned their forums, like WotC, rather than deal with it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on February 18, 2022, 10:59:53 PM
I was really enjoying RPGnet for the Sentinels Comics RPG threads, but that place is insufferable.  I can't go to any other thread because it's basically a trap.  Probably because Sentinels is such a niche product there's no vanity in it.  Overall the situation sux because the Sentinels official forums were dead on arrival but no one from there wanted to go to RPGnet.  This censorious wasteland has been happening with a lot of forums, where they're slowly becoming mini-Reddits.  I noticed this was happening nearly a decade ago on EnWorld, and now it's completely insufferable.  Privateer Press simply abandoned their forums, like WotC, rather than deal with it.

Moderation on ENWorld remains way WAY better than The Big Purple.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on February 19, 2022, 12:59:47 AM
More to the point: nothing trumps their politics.

There's a saying I ran across that is quite appropriate: your speech is violence, but their violence is speech. Anything they do is automatically good, because they are the good guys, and if you disagree you are wrong and DEFINITELY a bad person.
. FIFY
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on February 19, 2022, 12:19:16 PM
I was really enjoying RPGnet for the Sentinels Comics RPG threads, but that place is insufferable.  I can't go to any other thread because it's basically a trap.  Probably because Sentinels is such a niche product there's no vanity in it.  Overall the situation sux because the Sentinels official forums were dead on arrival but no one from there wanted to go to RPGnet.  This censorious wasteland has been happening with a lot of forums, where they're slowly becoming mini-Reddits.  I noticed this was happening nearly a decade ago on EnWorld, and now it's completely insufferable.  Privateer Press simply abandoned their forums, like WotC, rather than deal with it.

Moderation on ENWorld remains way WAY better than The Big Purple.

Morrus and Umbran have always been cunts - now they're woke cunts.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on February 19, 2022, 12:20:19 PM
More to the point: nothing trumps their politics.

There's a saying I ran across that is quite appropriate: your speech is violence, but their violence is speech. Anything they do is automatically good, because they are the good guys, and if you disagree you are wrong and DEFINITELY a bad person.
. FIFY

The only way to fix that has to be in meat-space when they pop off and get their teeth knocked out in response.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 19, 2022, 12:26:56 PM
More to the point: nothing trumps their politics.

There's a saying I ran across that is quite appropriate: your speech is violence, but their violence is speech. Anything they do is automatically good, because they are the good guys, and if you disagree you are wrong and DEFINITELY a bad person.
. FIFY

The only way to fix that has to be in meat-space when they pop off and get their teeth knocked out in response.

   I am not so sure that would work.   At least as a fix to that attitude.  It will shut them up, but it is not going to fix that brain.   
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on February 19, 2022, 12:41:36 PM
More to the point: nothing trumps their politics.

There's a saying I ran across that is quite appropriate: your speech is violence, but their violence is speech. Anything they do is automatically good, because they are the good guys, and if you disagree you are wrong and DEFINITELY a bad person.
. FIFY

The only way to fix that has to be in meat-space when they pop off and get their teeth knocked out in response.

   I am not so sure that would work.   At least as a fix to that attitude.  It will shut them up, but it is not going to fix that brain.

The problem is that non-leftists a generally too civilized and polite, resulting in an inch turning into a mile. 

For example, it wasn't enough to not harass gay people.  Then it turned into wanting marriage - so the state allows civil unions for same sex people.  Ok, whatever. That has now turned into wanting impressionable children to be read stories by drag queens, graphic non-clinical sexual material taught as "sex ed," college professors advocating for allowing grown adults to have sex with kids and animals, a man ranked 400-something in swimming who couldn't cut it to be allowed to compete as a woman (and ranked #1), and the nomination of a man in a dress who has sex with men dressed in leather to look like dogs to be a secretary in the DOE.  It's that slippery slope. 

Or thugs being allowed to burn, loot, murder unmolested while peaceful truckers and old ladies get beaten by police acting on behalf of a tyrant.

It infects all aspects of our lives *because* there is no forceful push back. It doesn't have to be physical violence. A simple "I don't care that you think you're a woman, you're not competing as a woman because you were born male" with no compromise. A simple "you may know nuclear waste, but you're a distraction, so you won't be made a DoE secretary."

*That's* all it takes - refusing to bow to a mob of leftists.  *Every* single time they try to cancel someone and that person essentially tells them to get fucked, they move on - they only try their shenanigans on people who are weak.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 19, 2022, 12:51:04 PM
More to the point: nothing trumps their politics.

There's a saying I ran across that is quite appropriate: your speech is violence, but their violence is speech. Anything they do is automatically good, because they are the good guys, and if you disagree you are wrong and DEFINITELY a bad person.
. FIFY

The only way to fix that has to be in meat-space when they pop off and get their teeth knocked out in response.

   I am not so sure that would work.   At least as a fix to that attitude.  It will shut them up, but it is not going to fix that brain.

The problem is that non-leftists a generally too civilized and polite, resulting in an inch turning into a mile. 

For example, it wasn't enough to not harass gay people.  Then it turned into wanting marriage - so the state allows civil unions for same sex people.  Ok, whatever. That has now turned into wanting impressionable children to be read stories by drag queens, graphic non-clinical sexual material taught as "sex ed," college professors advocating for allowing grown adults to have sex with kids and animals, a man ranked 400-something in swimming who couldn't cut it to be allowed to compete as a woman (and ranked #1), and the nomination of a man in a dress who has sex with men dressed in leather to look like dogs to be a secretary in the DOE.  It's that slippery slope. 

Or thugs being allowed to burn, loot, murder unmolested while peaceful truckers and old ladies get beaten by police acting on behalf of a tyrant.

It infects all aspects of our lives *because* there is no forceful push back. It doesn't have to be physical violence. A simple "I don't care that you think you're a woman, you're not competing as a woman because you were born male" with no compromise. A simple "you may know nuclear waste, but you're a distraction, so you won't be made a DoE secretary."

*That's* all it takes - refusing to bow to a mob of leftists.  *Every* single time they try to cancel someone and that person essentially tells them to get fucked, they move on - they only try their shenanigans on people who are weak.

  Don't get me wrong.  I would feel great folding up a few of these idiots clothes for them.   I have just come to the point where doing something to them is not going to do a thing.  I agree that way too many people do not say something.  But it is not because of polite, they are afraid.  Somewhere they got it in their heads that saying, hey if you want to sodomize one another have at it, just do not try to get me to celebrate blood and feces being the sign of love.   Instead they are pushed to go from tolerance to acceptance and even celebration of what are, statistically, deviant lifestyles.   Then we get as you say, dudes smashing women in sports.  I made a point back then the orange man bad was on the scene, the ONE reason I would vote for him was he at least said boys should not be in girl's locker rooms in schools.   Schools nationally were preparing to have completely new guidelines around that sort of insanity, and Trump getting elected at least put if off for years.   But, here we are again, legal and social pressure to accept insanity as a norm.  If an adult wants to chop themselves and be something else, go ahead.  But certain things are a no no.  You are not going to have teen boys in the locker room with my daughter.  I am not going to accept men competing with women in sports.  How these things alone have not created a complete meltdown (when I hear from EVERYONE in person how they really feel about it) tells me it is not polite holding people back.  It is fear of making a stink, getting a twitter/internet campaign run on them, and they lose their job when the company they work for catches bad press. 

    That is also why I think all this ends badly.   The pressure will build to a point where fear gets weaponized, and there is nothing more dangerous than people who have let their fear make decisions, life and death decisions.   Then its all bets are off.

  Edited to add: I was a little harsh implying it is all fear preventing people from saying something.  But I do think polite plays a strong role, it just gets weaponized against them though, and makes them immediately defensive, and later afraid.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 19, 2022, 04:15:39 PM
I would like to remind some of you that Zak wrung an apology out of one of them (Ettin). Macris threatened legal action and essentially made himself and his game persona non grata on the forum. Did it make them change their ways? Did they engage in any self-reflection?

Yeah, we all know the answer to that.

Some people only learn if it hurts, and it KEEPS hurting until they figure out not to put their hand on the stove.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on February 19, 2022, 06:25:17 PM
Some people only learn if it hurts, and it KEEPS hurting until they figure out not to put their hand on the stove.

Even that isn't always enough. Convince some people that they're suffering for a good cause and no amount of pushback will stop them after that. Heck, in and of itself, that's an admirable trait.

The key is that the suffering has to come in a way that maximizes whatever cognitive dissonance already exists. Getting hurtful pushback from people opposed to you is par for the course; nobody's thrown by that. Getting hurtful pushback from people you thought were "on your side" because you made one minor suggestion for restraint or moderation does far more to jolt people out of the Woke trance, I think.

This is part of why both sides' vulnerabilities flow out of their basic philosophies, I think. The Right does not believe in perfect solutions, only tradeoffs, and as a result can be too quick to embrace anything that smacks of compromise or moderation. The Left does believe in perfect solutions, and as a result can be too quick to see anything that smacks of compromise or moderation as a betrayal deserving of punishment.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on February 20, 2022, 04:14:37 AM
I was really enjoying RPGnet for the Sentinels Comics RPG threads, but that place is insufferable.  I can't go to any other thread because it's basically a trap.  Probably because Sentinels is such a niche product there's no vanity in it.  Overall the situation sux because the Sentinels official forums were dead on arrival but no one from there wanted to go to RPGnet.  This censorious wasteland has been happening with a lot of forums, where they're slowly becoming mini-Reddits.  I noticed this was happening nearly a decade ago on EnWorld, and now it's completely insufferable.  Privateer Press simply abandoned their forums, like WotC, rather than deal with it.

Moderation on ENWorld remains way WAY better than The Big Purple.

Morrus and Umbran have always been cunts - now they're woke cunts.

They were woke cunts years ago.  I hate to think what kind of SJWery they are up to nowadays.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on February 21, 2022, 01:16:42 PM
I was really enjoying RPGnet for the Sentinels Comics RPG threads, but that place is insufferable.  I can't go to any other thread because it's basically a trap.  Probably because Sentinels is such a niche product there's no vanity in it.  Overall the situation sux because the Sentinels official forums were dead on arrival but no one from there wanted to go to RPGnet.  This censorious wasteland has been happening with a lot of forums, where they're slowly becoming mini-Reddits.  I noticed this was happening nearly a decade ago on EnWorld, and now it's completely insufferable.  Privateer Press simply abandoned their forums, like WotC, rather than deal with it.

Moderation on ENWorld remains way WAY better than The Big Purple.

Morrus and Umbran have always been cunts - now they're woke cunts.

Whatever you think of them, they remain way better than The Big Purple.

Also, let's all be honest here. Your online persona on EnWorld was constantly aggressive and dickish, by intent. You pushed people's buttons and wanted to see where the limits were.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on February 21, 2022, 01:18:24 PM
I would like to remind some of you that Zak wrung an apology out of one of them (Ettin). Macris threatened legal action and essentially made himself and his game persona non grata on the forum. Did it make them change their ways? Did they engage in any self-reflection?

Yeah, we all know the answer to that.

Some people only learn if it hurts, and it KEEPS hurting until they figure out not to put their hand on the stove.

They're never going to change, and it isn't our jobs to change them. It's their gaming forum.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on February 21, 2022, 01:21:43 PM
I was really enjoying RPGnet for the Sentinels Comics RPG threads, but that place is insufferable.  I can't go to any other thread because it's basically a trap.  Probably because Sentinels is such a niche product there's no vanity in it.  Overall the situation sux because the Sentinels official forums were dead on arrival but no one from there wanted to go to RPGnet.  This censorious wasteland has been happening with a lot of forums, where they're slowly becoming mini-Reddits.  I noticed this was happening nearly a decade ago on EnWorld, and now it's completely insufferable.  Privateer Press simply abandoned their forums, like WotC, rather than deal with it.

Moderation on ENWorld remains way WAY better than The Big Purple.

Morrus and Umbran have always been cunts - now they're woke cunts.

They were woke cunts years ago.  I hate to think what kind of SJWery they are up to nowadays.

It remains very difficult to get banned at EnWorld for your views (easier to be banned there than here, but here is genuinely nearly impossible). The Big Purple will ban if you look at someone the wrong way. These two things are not equivalents. Morrus isn't out to make everyone think like him. The Big Purple is out to make everyone thing like them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 21, 2022, 01:36:01 PM
  I have only been over at Enworld 10 or so times over the years.  I can not say I have seen very many discussions drift too political.  I do remember seeing some nasty edition fights years ago.  Is there a more political bent to discussion now?  I always saw that forum as being a bit more on topic regarding rpgs.  That said, I never dug through their rules or looked for hot buttons either.  They just looked a whole lot saner than some of the things that would pop up at rpgnet.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on February 21, 2022, 08:08:06 PM
I was really enjoying RPGnet for the Sentinels Comics RPG threads, but that place is insufferable.  I can't go to any other thread because it's basically a trap.  Probably because Sentinels is such a niche product there's no vanity in it.  Overall the situation sux because the Sentinels official forums were dead on arrival but no one from there wanted to go to RPGnet.  This censorious wasteland has been happening with a lot of forums, where they're slowly becoming mini-Reddits.  I noticed this was happening nearly a decade ago on EnWorld, and now it's completely insufferable.  Privateer Press simply abandoned their forums, like WotC, rather than deal with it.

Moderation on ENWorld remains way WAY better than The Big Purple.

Morrus and Umbran have always been cunts - now they're woke cunts.

Whatever you think of them, they remain way better than The Big Purple.

Also, let's all be honest here. Your online persona on EnWorld was constantly aggressive and dickish, by intent. You pushed people's buttons and wanted to see where the limits were.

And?

Aggressive I may have been. But when faced with political correctness SJW groupthink, the mere act of pointing out their hypocrisy in a non-polite way was highly enjoyable.  People who've never been told that they're wrong need the cold hard truth to shatter their fragile egos.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on February 21, 2022, 11:08:28 PM
  I have only been over at Enworld 10 or so times over the years.  I can not say I have seen very many discussions drift too political.  I do remember seeing some nasty edition fights years ago.  Is there a more political bent to discussion now?  I always saw that forum as being a bit more on topic regarding rpgs.  That said, I never dug through their rules or looked for hot buttons either.  They just looked a whole lot saner than some of the things that would pop up at rpgnet.

You don't see it much because there is a one way filter on politics.  When some tard spouts diversity or trans nonsense, that's not politics to them, so no outcry.  But contradict the woke talking points and suddenly you get dog-piled and warned for being political.  It's a political bullying based on double standards.  Mistwell is being disingenuous, as usual.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 23, 2022, 04:49:36 PM
 LMAO the SJW do no harm crowd seems pretty adamant about toeing the party line about getting into WW3.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sartana-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-threadban-whataboutism.894200/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on February 23, 2022, 07:29:35 PM
I was really enjoying RPGnet for the Sentinels Comics RPG threads, but that place is insufferable.  I can't go to any other thread because it's basically a trap.  Probably because Sentinels is such a niche product there's no vanity in it.  Overall the situation sux because the Sentinels official forums were dead on arrival but no one from there wanted to go to RPGnet.  This censorious wasteland has been happening with a lot of forums, where they're slowly becoming mini-Reddits.  I noticed this was happening nearly a decade ago on EnWorld, and now it's completely insufferable.  Privateer Press simply abandoned their forums, like WotC, rather than deal with it.

Moderation on ENWorld remains way WAY better than The Big Purple.

Morrus and Umbran have always been cunts - now they're woke cunts.

Whatever you think of them, they remain way better than The Big Purple.

Also, let's all be honest here. Your online persona on EnWorld was constantly aggressive and dickish, by intent. You pushed people's buttons and wanted to see where the limits were.

And?

Aggressive I may have been. But when faced with political correctness SJW groupthink, the mere act of pointing out their hypocrisy in a non-polite way was highly enjoyable.  People who've never been told that they're wrong need the cold hard truth to shatter their fragile egos.

Did you really think so high of yourself to believe you were the only one who ever told the moderation staff there they were wrong? Dude, they have that level of run-in every week, and have for decades. Sometimes every day, depending on what's going on. If their egos were so fragile they would have shut down editions ago.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on February 23, 2022, 07:30:57 PM
  I have only been over at Enworld 10 or so times over the years.  I can not say I have seen very many discussions drift too political.  I do remember seeing some nasty edition fights years ago.  Is there a more political bent to discussion now?  I always saw that forum as being a bit more on topic regarding rpgs.  That said, I never dug through their rules or looked for hot buttons either.  They just looked a whole lot saner than some of the things that would pop up at rpgnet.

You don't see it much because there is a one way filter on politics.  When some tard spouts diversity or trans nonsense, that's not politics to them, so no outcry.  But contradict the woke talking points and suddenly you get dog-piled and warned for being political.  It's a political bullying based on double standards.  Mistwell is being disingenuous, as usual.

What's disingenuous about saying their moderation staff is way less draconian than The Big Purple. Oh right, you were not replying to what I said, just what you wish I said.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on February 24, 2022, 06:23:46 AM
LMAO the SJW do no harm crowd seems pretty adamant about toeing the party line about getting into WW3.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sartana-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-threadban-whataboutism.894200/

This post was both literally and historically right (Cuban Missiles Crisis...) I'm now thinking that they decide the people to ban by randomly pulling names from a ballot.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 24, 2022, 07:47:59 AM
LMAO the SJW do no harm crowd seems pretty adamant about toeing the party line about getting into WW3.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sartana-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-threadban-whataboutism.894200/

This post was both literally and historically right (Cuban Missiles Crisis...) I'm now thinking that they decide the people to ban by randomly pulling names from a ballot.

   Yeah, I guess pointing out anything can now be a white supremacist, or a Russian propaganda talking point.   Or, well anything you do not agree with is some sort of istaphobe talking point.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 24, 2022, 07:51:25 AM
'Whataboutism' has been the go-to since 2015 when people were pointing out the massive hypocrisy inherent in the Dems' behavior (particularly regarding Her Nibs, Hillary I).

It's much like the smear of 'racist!' in that it's not used to debate, but to shut down the opponent's argument and disallow them from continuing debate.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Godfather Punk on February 24, 2022, 04:32:10 PM
Cerulean Lion posted (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/cerulean-lion-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban.894257/)
Quote
Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.
One Day ban for sexism...
 :o
Because obviously, when you say 'small minds', the moderators immediately think of women.
It's behind the login wall, so I don't know the context, but Sexism? Really?  ::)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on February 24, 2022, 04:43:51 PM
Because obviously, when you say 'small minds', the moderators immediately think of women.
It's behind the login wall, so I don't know the context, but Sexism? Really?  ::)

I was flummoxed too when I saw the name. I was like, "Cerulean Lion? Really? He's the single most inoffensive poster I've ever read on this site."

It wouldn't surprise me at this point to find that "Believe All Reports" is an ironclad rule of mod guidance.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 24, 2022, 04:49:19 PM
Cerulean Lion posted (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/cerulean-lion-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban.894257/)
Quote
Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.
One Day ban for sexism...
 :o
Because obviously, when you say 'small minds', the moderators immediately think of women.
It's behind the login wall, so I don't know the context, but Sexism? Really?  ::)

  Well the worst is how the fuck would anyone make that link to when the expression developed in history?  Do you have to research every sentence you utter now to make sure you are not saying something someone who was "not on the right side of history" said?  Insufferable.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on February 25, 2022, 01:57:50 PM

I was flummoxed too when I saw the name. I was like, "Cerulean Lion? Really? He's the single most inoffensive poster I've ever read on this site."

It wouldn't surprise me at this point to find that "Believe All Reports" is an ironclad rule of mod guidance.

  Well, "context and infraction history are included," and Cerulean Lion is a publicly identified Christian, which makes him unlikely to give proper respect to TBP's patrons Mammon, Asmodeus, and Moloch.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on February 25, 2022, 02:00:42 PM

I was flummoxed too when I saw the name. I was like, "Cerulean Lion? Really? He's the single most inoffensive poster I've ever read on this site."

It wouldn't surprise me at this point to find that "Believe All Reports" is an ironclad rule of mod guidance.

  Well, "context and infraction history are included," and Cerulean Lion is a publicly identified Christian, which makes him unlikely to give proper respect to TBP's patrons Mammon, Asmodeus, and Moloch.
Socialists don't worship Mammon. But Moloch? Definitely.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on February 25, 2022, 02:05:42 PM

I was flummoxed too when I saw the name. I was like, "Cerulean Lion? Really? He's the single most inoffensive poster I've ever read on this site."

It wouldn't surprise me at this point to find that "Believe All Reports" is an ironclad rule of mod guidance.

  Well, "context and infraction history are included," and Cerulean Lion is a publicly identified Christian, which makes him unlikely to give proper respect to TBP's patrons Mammon, Asmodeus, and Moloch.
Socialists don't worship Mammon. But Moloch? Definitely.

  Disagree, every declared socialist I have ever seen loved to stuff their pockets at every opportunity.   They fucking love money and wealth, they just hate for YOU to have it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on February 25, 2022, 02:09:37 PM
Socialists don't worship Mammon. But Moloch? Definitely.

  Look at 'woke capital' and tell me that the two formerly (supposedly) opposed fiends aren't now working openly hand in glove. :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on February 25, 2022, 02:22:23 PM
Cerulean Lion is a publicly identified Christian, which makes him unlikely to give proper respect to TBP's patrons Mammon, Asmodeus, and Moloch.

Agreed, but I have generally observed that he takes the "judge as you would be judged / fix the mote in one's own eye first" approach to controversial topics, which usually helps keep things cool. That's where he addresses such things directly at all, which I very rarely remember him doing. Maybe that has changed in the years I've been off the site, but it's still surprising.

(Out of curiosity, if Mammon is avarice and Moloch is libertinism, what's the sin/vice of Asmodeus?)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on February 25, 2022, 03:08:47 PM
(Out of curiosity, if Mammon is avarice and Moloch is libertinism, what's the sin/vice of Asmodeus?)

  Asmodeus is typically associated with lust and wrath; Moloch, with power and profit in return for certain sacrifices ...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on February 25, 2022, 03:19:39 PM
(Out of curiosity, if Mammon is avarice and Moloch is libertinism, what's the sin/vice of Asmodeus?)

  Asmodeus is typically associated with lust and wrath; Moloch, with power and profit in return for certain sacrifices ...

I would have put Asmodeus down for Pride myself.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on February 25, 2022, 03:24:51 PM
Asmodeus is typically associated with lust and wrath; Moloch, with power and profit in return for certain sacrifices ...

Ah, I see -- I'd sort of thought of Moloch as "lust" because the sacrifices typically ascribed to him are the ones made catastrophically common and easy by post-Sexual Revolution hookup culture (which I refer to by the term "libertinism" as a call-back to de Sade).

Mammon, Moloch and Asmodeus -- gotta remember that trifecta. Sort of encompasses much of Wokism generally, now I think about it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on February 25, 2022, 03:28:52 PM
Asmodeus is typically associated with lust and wrath; Moloch, with power and profit in return for certain sacrifices ...

Ah, I see -- I'd sort of thought of Moloch as "lust" because the sacrifices typically ascribed to him are the ones made catastrophically common and easy by post-Sexual Revolution hookup culture (which I refer to by the term "libertinism" as a call-back to de Sade).

Mammon, Moloch and Asmodeus -- gotta remember that trifecta. Sort of encompasses much of Wokism generally, now I think about it.

  I often use Ashtoreth instead of Asmodeus, and it arguably works better if one accepts the theory that Moloch was Ashtoreth's consort in Canaanite religion. "Asmodeus" just comes to mind in the context of the RPG hobby. :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on February 25, 2022, 05:34:29 PM

(Out of curiosity, if Mammon is avarice and Moloch is libertinism, what's the sin/vice of Asmodeus?)
I've always considered Moloch more of a baby-eater, myself.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on February 25, 2022, 05:36:48 PM
(Out of curiosity, if Mammon is avarice and Moloch is libertinism, what's the sin/vice of Asmodeus?)

  Asmodeus is typically associated with lust and wrath; Moloch, with power and profit in return for certain sacrifices ...

I would have put Asmodeus down for Pride myself.
If we can trust the MM, he's more about evil mustaches.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on February 25, 2022, 06:22:27 PM
(Out of curiosity, if Mammon is avarice and Moloch is libertinism, what's the sin/vice of Asmodeus?)

  Asmodeus is typically associated with lust and wrath; Moloch, with power and profit in return for certain sacrifices ...

I would have put Asmodeus down for Pride myself.
If we can trust the MM, he's more about evil mustaches.

Asmodeus with his evil mustache and ass-less chaps.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 02, 2022, 09:12:17 AM
You know, let it not be said that I don't give credit where it's due.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/npc-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban.894497/

Yeah, posting a gloomy 'Polish government sucks!' in a thread about the Polish equivalent of donuts? Asinine.

(Also, I'd be racially profiling if I was the Polish government too, to be blunt. Deal with it, you German commie bitchboi.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on March 02, 2022, 11:30:29 AM
I would have put Asmodeus down for Pride myself.
If we can trust the MM, he's more about evil mustaches.

I've seen plenty of evil-looking mustaches at events dedicated to Pride.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on March 02, 2022, 11:58:38 AM

I've seen plenty of evil-looking mustaches at events dedicated to Pride.

Plenty of assless chaps too, I'll warrant.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on March 02, 2022, 02:05:32 PM
I would have put Asmodeus down for Pride myself.

  Are you thinking Biblical or D&D Asmodeus?

  (He shows up in the Book of Tobit, one of the deuterocanonical books, so not all Bibles will have it.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on March 02, 2022, 02:35:21 PM
I would have put Asmodeus down for Pride myself.

  Are you thinking Biblical or D&D Asmodeus?

  (He shows up in the Book of Tobit, one of the deuterocanonical books, so not all Bibles will have it.)

The guy who would rather rule in hell then serve in heaven, which is more Milton then either the Bible or DnD.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on March 02, 2022, 02:39:33 PM
Plenty of assless chaps too, I'll warrant.

Thankfully surprisingly few; the obligatory media photos of the event that become impossible to avoid in Toronto during June will usually exercise at least some discretion.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on March 04, 2022, 07:45:06 PM
(Out of curiosity, if Mammon is avarice and Moloch is libertinism, what's the sin/vice of Asmodeus?)

  Asmodeus is typically associated with lust and wrath; Moloch, with power and profit in return for certain sacrifices ...

In "Metropolis" by Fritz Lang the main character has a vision of Moloch when he discovers the giant industrial machines under Metropolis and the workers "serving" them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on March 06, 2022, 03:51:50 PM
Quote
Ah, I see -- I'd sort of thought of Moloch as "lust" because the sacrifices typically ascribed to him are the ones made catastrophically common and easy by post-Sexual Revolution hookup culture (which I refer to by the term "libertinism" as a call-back to de Sade).

Mammon, Moloch and Asmodeus -- gotta remember that trifecta. Sort of encompasses much of Wokism generally, now I think about it.

I think generally speaking it's better to simply use name of main sins, than some demonologic classifications that never went past folk demonology in Christianity. For good reason - classification of demons is like most useless knowledge one can get here. It's like absolutely with zero use. There is one rite of exorcism for all those funny folk, and that's it.

Not to mention later translators commonly demonise various terms that were not really demonic in direct way. Mammon is good example - it's word for money in Hebrew. But because Gospel was written in Greek this hebraism were missed by later translators who seemingly considered it to be personal name, and voilla - demon Mammon.
Even Moloch quite probably was term for Caananite human sacrifices in general, rather than specific entity.

Quote
  I often use Ashtoreth instead of Asmodeus, and it arguably works better if one accepts the theory that Moloch was Ashtoreth's consort in Canaanite religion.

Personally I find it doubtful. Ashtarte was almost certainly Ishtar equivalent, and she is mentioned in Bible as pair with Baal - which is honorific given usually to main male deity, as it mean owner and husband.

Quote
You know, let it not be said that I don't give credit where it's due.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/npc-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban.894497/

Yeah, posting a gloomy 'Polish government sucks!' in a thread about the Polish equivalent of donuts? Asinine.

(Also, I'd be racially profiling if I was the Polish government too, to be blunt. Deal with it, you German commie bitchboi.)

As Polish I can safely say RPG Moderators just repented for all their crimes. Peace and rainbows!

Quote
The guy who would rather rule in hell then serve in heaven, which is more Milton then either the Bible or DnD.

Nah, Biblical Asmodeus is incel devil who cannot stand lass he simps to is going to be married, so he murders all her fiances.

Quote
In "Metropolis" by Fritz Lang the main character has a vision of Moloch when he discovers the giant industrial machines under Metropolis and the workers "serving" them.

Is this source of "industrial moloch" frase or is it earlier and Lang is using it here?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on March 06, 2022, 04:10:55 PM
I think generally speaking it's better to simply use name of main sins, than some demonologic classifications that never went past folk demonology in Christianity.

Fair point. Certainly for explicit theological instruction I'd stick to the clinical terminology. But I don't think there's any harm in having fun with the symbology in a context where everyone knows what's being discussed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on March 06, 2022, 06:43:38 PM
That I can agree. In this case if we use traditional terms used as "demon-names" in Christian folklore my overall take would be: use Lucifer for pride.
If there's one name commonly linked to this aspect of diabolism - it's this one. Fake Prophet, Fake Light, Fake Englightement.

Moloch would be symbol par excellence of idolatry as it was most drastic for of it.


Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on March 06, 2022, 07:24:43 PM
This one really has me puzzled.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ukraine-russia-thread-two.894431/page-115

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/noven-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-russian-invasion-apologism-in-an-a-game-thread.894683/

And when I say I'm puzzled, I'm really not.

If taken at face value, said poster served in Afghanistan and shared knowledge of grid reference fire support and how it has improved over the decades and how Russia might not be as sophisticated as the US.

But in bizzaro-world this means "Russian apologism"?

It has to be parody at this stage, no one can willingly be that self-aware?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on March 07, 2022, 01:36:04 AM
If taken at face value, said poster served in Afghanistan and shared knowledge of grid reference fire support and how it has improved over the decades and how Russia might not be as sophisticated as the US.

But in bizzaro-world this means "Russian apologism"?

The assumption is that any explanation, even a speculative one, of Russian attacks on civilian targets in Ukraine as anything other than intentional atrocity serves in practice as an excuse for, or defense of, Putin's actions. Thus impermissible.

Sadly, it's not parody, at least from the POV of TBP's governing philosophy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 07, 2022, 07:57:12 AM
If taken at face value, said poster served in Afghanistan and shared knowledge of grid reference fire support and how it has improved over the decades and how Russia might not be as sophisticated as the US.

But in bizzaro-world this means "Russian apologism"?

The assumption is that any explanation, even a speculative one, of Russian attacks on civilian targets in Ukraine as anything other than intentional atrocity serves in practice as an excuse for, or defense of, Putin's actions. Thus impermissible.

Sadly, it's not parody, at least from the POV of TBP's governing philosophy.
Yup. Keep in mind that even clinical discussion of slavery is considered analogous to support of slavery, as demonstrated by prior bans made. This is no different.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on March 07, 2022, 08:51:42 AM
I keep waiting for the day when the discussion of violence is a bannable offense at rpg.net.  Honestly, it's like the satanic panic people are running the asylum.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on March 07, 2022, 10:19:02 AM
If taken at face value, said poster served in Afghanistan and shared knowledge of grid reference fire support and how it has improved over the decades and how Russia might not be as sophisticated as the US.

But in bizzaro-world this means "Russian apologism"?

The assumption is that any explanation, even a speculative one, of Russian attacks on civilian targets in Ukraine as anything other than intentional atrocity serves in practice as an excuse for, or defense of, Putin's actions. Thus impermissible.

Sadly, it's not parody, at least from the POV of TBP's governing philosophy.
Yup. Keep in mind that even clinical discussion of slavery is considered analogous to support of slavery, as demonstrated by prior bans made. This is no different.

"Slavery bad."

"YoU aRe BaNnEd, HeReTiC!!!!11"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 07, 2022, 10:46:10 AM
  I wonder how some of those people are going to function when we hit a grid down, no food on shelves scenario in the next couple years.  Reality is going to hit some people like a freaking sledge hammer.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on March 07, 2022, 10:57:34 AM
That does sound like an overall banning of any intelligent discussion ever.

“But the situation is more complex than…” BANNED
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 07, 2022, 11:04:35 AM
  I wonder how some of those people are going to function when we hit a grid down, no food on shelves scenario in the next couple years.  Reality is going to hit some people like a freaking sledge hammer.
Honestly? They won't. Function, I mean.

Hell, if we have a full on fuck-a-duck crash, I'm probably boned all to hell and back. Their chances are even worse.

Remember, a lot of urban bug people types literally do not grasp where the necessities come from. They think electricity comes from the socket and that food just appears on shelves in the supermarket.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on March 07, 2022, 11:28:19 AM
Well, let's discuss what will realistically happen and then figure how RPG.Net lunatics will manage.

I don't think we're going to see an apocalypse, at least not where I live in the US. Americans are pretty used to a silver spoon lifestyle powered by a whole lot of internationally sourced consumer goods. That's not going to fly much longer. But on the other hand, the US basically produces enough oil and food to see to its own needs in a tight fit. Gas and food will be in shortage, but if you have a gas can and a pantry, it's probably not going to be unmanageable.

The monetary problems are what worries me. Long term the US Dollar is going to have significant inflation, but in the nearer term US Dollars may actually appreciate because there's a lot of international demand for it to cover USD denominated debt. Then there's the potential of the Federal Reserve rolling out a nightmare-dystopian CBDC to replace the dollar.

How do I think this will play out? Most RPG.Net kool-aid drinkers are addicted to the political activist mindset. When they stop seeing Apple, Avocados, and Abercrombie in the stores, they will protest. And they will either get one of those new fancy microwave LRADs used on them or have their bank accounts frozen. That's when the reality will hit. How they will react from there, I really don't know.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 07, 2022, 11:37:18 AM
Well, let's discuss what will realistically happen and then figure how RPG.Net lunatics will manage.

I don't think we're going to see an apocalypse, at least not where I live in the US. Americans are pretty used to a silver spoon lifestyle powered by a whole lot of internationally sourced consumer goods. That's not going to fly much longer. But on the other hand, the US basically produces enough oil and food to see to its own needs in a tight fit. Gas and food will be in shortage, but if you have a gas can and a pantry, it's probably not going to be unmanageable.

The monetary problems are what worries me. Long term the US Dollar is going to have significant inflation, but in the nearer term US Dollars may actually appreciate because there's a lot of international demand for it to cover USD denominated debt. Then there's the potential of the Federal Reserve rolling out a nightmare-dystopian CBDC to replace the dollar.

How do I think this will play out? Most RPG.Net kool-aid drinkers are addicted to the political activist mindset. When they stop seeing Apple, Avocados, and Abercrombie in the stores, they will protest. And they will either get one of those new fancy microwave LRADs used on them or have their bank accounts frozen. That's when the reality will hit. How they will react from there, I really don't know.

  I think the real crash, will be as you suggest, from dominoes dropping.  I think there is a real chance of a 1930's level depression, and that will be a serious reality check for activists.  How the population reacts to that depression is where I see a shot at a full meltdown.  Power infrastructure is fragile in the USA, and toss in a major issue of some sort while depression is on, and I think it could go extremely sideways.  I do not for see a long term apocalypse in and of itself, but the USA has opened the invitation to a series of cyber attacks.  Given how fragile the internet and power infrastructures are, there is going to be a 4-6 week period of tight food and no power.  I agree a pantry solves most of that, but I do wonder how many houses have a week of food that can sustain the household with no outside help.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 07, 2022, 11:45:31 AM
Well, let's discuss what will realistically happen and then figure how RPG.Net lunatics will manage.

I don't think we're going to see an apocalypse, at least not where I live in the US. Americans are pretty used to a silver spoon lifestyle powered by a whole lot of internationally sourced consumer goods. That's not going to fly much longer. But on the other hand, the US basically produces enough oil and food to see to its own needs in a tight fit. Gas and food will be in shortage, but if you have a gas can and a pantry, it's probably not going to be unmanageable.

The monetary problems are what worries me. Long term the US Dollar is going to have significant inflation, but in the nearer term US Dollars may actually appreciate because there's a lot of international demand for it to cover USD denominated debt. Then there's the potential of the Federal Reserve rolling out a nightmare-dystopian CBDC to replace the dollar.

How do I think this will play out? Most RPG.Net kool-aid drinkers are addicted to the political activist mindset. When they stop seeing Apple, Avocados, and Abercrombie in the stores, they will protest. And they will either get one of those new fancy microwave LRADs used on them or have their bank accounts frozen. That's when the reality will hit. How they will react from there, I really don't know.

  I think the real crash, will be as you suggest, from dominoes dropping.  I think there is a real chance of a 1930's level depression, and that will be a serious reality check for activists.  How the population reacts to that depression is where I see a shot at a full meltdown.  Power infrastructure is fragile in the USA, and toss in a major issue of some sort while depression is on, and I think it could go extremely sideways.  I do not for see a long term apocalypse in and of itself, but the USA has opened the invitation to a series of cyber attacks.  Given how fragile the internet and power infrastructures are, there is going to be a 4-6 week period of tight food and no power.  I agree a pantry solves most of that, but I do wonder how many houses have a week of food that can sustain the household with no outside help.
Don't think 'houses'. Think 'apartments'. Imagine how much food the urban hive inhabitants might have on hand.

Rural and possibly suburban areas should weather things all right. It's the urban areas that turn into pressure cookers when there's no power, no food, and no water.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 07, 2022, 11:53:19 AM
  I think the convenience of urban life (shopping daily to cook, easy walk to go to a restaurant, etc) will suddenly be a problem pretty quickly, especially population density.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on March 07, 2022, 11:58:27 AM
  I wonder how some of those people are going to function when we hit a grid down, no food on shelves scenario in the next couple years.  Reality is going to hit some people like a freaking sledge hammer.
Honestly? They won't. Function, I mean.

Hell, if we have a full on fuck-a-duck crash, I'm probably boned all to hell and back. Their chances are even worse.

Remember, a lot of urban bug people types literally do not grasp where the necessities come from. They think electricity comes from the socket and that food just appears on shelves in the supermarket.
You mean like this?
https://youtube.com/shorts/zCp-zv9BLCw?feature=share

I like my chances grid down wise because this is what the major cities will have to content with: no basis in reality or any understanding of where food comes from.

I like my cushy American life but having been preparing quite some time now.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on March 07, 2022, 12:01:33 PM
Well, let's discuss what will realistically happen and then figure how RPG.Net lunatics will manage.

I don't think we're going to see an apocalypse, at least not where I live in the US. Americans are pretty used to a silver spoon lifestyle powered by a whole lot of internationally sourced consumer goods. That's not going to fly much longer. But on the other hand, the US basically produces enough oil and food to see to its own needs in a tight fit. Gas and food will be in shortage, but if you have a gas can and a pantry, it's probably not going to be unmanageable.

The monetary problems are what worries me. Long term the US Dollar is going to have significant inflation, but in the nearer term US Dollars may actually appreciate because there's a lot of international demand for it to cover USD denominated debt. Then there's the potential of the Federal Reserve rolling out a nightmare-dystopian CBDC to replace the dollar.

How do I think this will play out? Most RPG.Net kool-aid drinkers are addicted to the political activist mindset. When they stop seeing Apple, Avocados, and Abercrombie in the stores, they will protest. And they will either get one of those new fancy microwave LRADs used on them or have their bank accounts frozen. That's when the reality will hit. How they will react from there, I really don't know.

  I think the real crash, will be as you suggest, from dominoes dropping.  I think there is a real chance of a 1930's level depression, and that will be a serious reality check for activists.  How the population reacts to that depression is where I see a shot at a full meltdown.  Power infrastructure is fragile in the USA, and toss in a major issue of some sort while depression is on, and I think it could go extremely sideways.  I do not for see a long term apocalypse in and of itself, but the USA has opened the invitation to a series of cyber attacks.  Given how fragile the internet and power infrastructures are, there is going to be a 4-6 week period of tight food and no power.  I agree a pantry solves most of that, but I do wonder how many houses have a week of food that can sustain the household with no outside help.
Don't think 'houses'. Think 'apartments'. Imagine how much food the urban hive inhabitants might have on hand.

Rural and possibly suburban areas should weather things all right. It's the urban areas that turn into pressure cookers when there's no power, no food, and no water.
A large city like say NYC? Turns it’s food supply over (roughly) every three days. Imagine now power grid down across the US in say mid February… Lord of the Flies in no time.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: JeremiahJones on March 07, 2022, 12:04:21 PM
People will probably start eating each other, and then there will be plenty of food.

I think it may be time for me to move to the country. Maybe a cabin somewhere with a decent garden.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 07, 2022, 12:05:19 PM
  I wonder how some of those people are going to function when we hit a grid down, no food on shelves scenario in the next couple years.  Reality is going to hit some people like a freaking sledge hammer.
Honestly? They won't. Function, I mean.

Hell, if we have a full on fuck-a-duck crash, I'm probably boned all to hell and back. Their chances are even worse.

Remember, a lot of urban bug people types literally do not grasp where the necessities come from. They think electricity comes from the socket and that food just appears on shelves in the supermarket.
You mean like this?
https://youtube.com/shorts/zCp-zv9BLCw?feature=share

I like my chances grid down wise because this is what the major cities will have to content with: no basis in reality or any understanding of where food comes from.

I like my cushy American life but having been preparing quite some time now.

  I think I lack preparation for longer than a few weeks though.  I might have majored in the minors.  Really long term SHTF I think my meager (at best) wood working skills and non existent black smith skills are going to hurt.  Though I have a friend with a decent black smith set up and he can do the basics, I also have hopes that black smith rudimentary level skills will only become necessity after years, and if we are years of grid down, that is another ball of wax anyway.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: JeremiahJones on March 07, 2022, 12:07:47 PM
Do you think cryptocurrencies will help with the inflation issue? So far they have not really been a total buffer, but that may change if widespread opinion loses faith in fiat.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 07, 2022, 12:14:21 PM
Do you think cryptocurrencies will help with the inflation issue? So far they have not really been a total buffer, but that may change if widespread opinion loses faith in fiat.

  I think the best answer is who knows.   I know the volatility right now is making people shit loads of money, but I think institutions are as much involved in some fluctuations as the usual "whale games" crypto suffers.  If inflation was the only issue I would say yes, but given there is an outside shot at WW3, supply issues, possible pullback in the markets from rate hikes, etc there are lots of variables to try to call a shot on. 

  Edited to add: one year prediction - do not really have one, chaos IMO.  5 year call - I think yes a positive compared to inflation and growth overall.   This with god knows what going on between here and then though.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 07, 2022, 12:20:04 PM
Do you think cryptocurrencies will help with the inflation issue? So far they have not really been a total buffer, but that may change if widespread opinion loses faith in fiat.
It's a good question. But crypto relies heavily on the power grid staying in place, and if the currency goes the grid may be not far behind.

If you want to invest, do so, but I would NOT put all your eggs in that basket. Invest in tangible assets as well -- ammunition for firearms, or precious metals.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on March 07, 2022, 12:22:19 PM
Do you think cryptocurrencies will help with the inflation issue? So far they have not really been a total buffer, but that may change if widespread opinion loses faith in fiat.
It's a good question. But crypto relies heavily on the power grid staying in place, and if the currency goes the grid may be not far behind.

If you want to invest, do so, but I would NOT put all your eggs in that basket. Invest in tangible assets as well -- ammunition for firearms, or precious metals.
Bullets, beans and bandages!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 07, 2022, 12:24:39 PM
Do you think cryptocurrencies will help with the inflation issue? So far they have not really been a total buffer, but that may change if widespread opinion loses faith in fiat.
It's a good question. But crypto relies heavily on the power grid staying in place, and if the currency goes the grid may be not far behind.

If you want to invest, do so, but I would NOT put all your eggs in that basket. Invest in tangible assets as well -- ammunition for firearms, or precious metals.

  Well, I think we have two very different situations there.  A scenario where the grid is gone, everything that boomers said invest in is a total loss.  I am not sure how useful precious metals will be (long term I see a use case) but I am 100 percent sure ammo is going to have value.  I suspect the .22 will be the new dollar bill, and the .12 gauge will be the new 10 dollar bill.   
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on March 07, 2022, 12:31:01 PM
Do you think cryptocurrencies will help with the inflation issue? So far they have not really been a total buffer, but that may change if widespread opinion loses faith in fiat.
It's a good question. But crypto relies heavily on the power grid staying in place, and if the currency goes the grid may be not far behind.

If you want to invest, do so, but I would NOT put all your eggs in that basket. Invest in tangible assets as well -- ammunition for firearms, or precious metals.

  Well, I think we have two very different situations there.  A scenario where the grid is gone, everything that boomers said invest in is a total loss.  I am not sure how useful precious metals will be (long term I see a use case) but I am 100 percent sure ammo is going to have value.  I suspect the .22 will be the new dollar bill, and the .12 gauge will be the new 10 dollar bill.
The primary value of precious metals is bribing border guards when you're escaping 1930s Germany.

Semi-seriously. It won't have any value when people are starving, but it will retain value when people don't trust money and don't have the time or ability to liquidate other assets.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: JeremiahJones on March 07, 2022, 12:58:08 PM
Do you think cryptocurrencies will help with the inflation issue? So far they have not really been a total buffer, but that may change if widespread opinion loses faith in fiat.
It's a good question. But crypto relies heavily on the power grid staying in place, and if the currency goes the grid may be not far behind.

If you want to invest, do so, but I would NOT put all your eggs in that basket. Invest in tangible assets as well -- ammunition for firearms, or precious metals.

  Well, I think we have two very different situations there.  A scenario where the grid is gone, everything that boomers said invest in is a total loss.  I am not sure how useful precious metals will be (long term I see a use case) but I am 100 percent sure ammo is going to have value.  I suspect the .22 will be the new dollar bill, and the .12 gauge will be the new 10 dollar bill.
The primary value of precious metals is bribing border guards when you're escaping 1930s Germany.

Semi-seriously. It won't have any value when people are starving, but it will retain value when people don't trust money and don't have the time or ability to liquidate other assets.

Yeah .. I see myself dying when the crap hits the fan.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on March 07, 2022, 01:47:06 PM

I think generally speaking it's better to simply use name of main sins, than some demonologic classifications that never went past folk demonology in Christianity. For good reason - classification of demons is like most useless knowledge one can get here. It's like absolutely with zero use. There is one rite of exorcism for all those funny folk, and that's it.

Not to mention later translators commonly demonise various terms that were not really demonic in direct way. Mammon is good example - it's word for money in Hebrew. But because Gospel was written in Greek this hebraism were missed by later translators who seemingly considered it to be personal name, and voilla - demon Mammon.
Even Moloch quite probably was term for Caananite human sacrifices in general, rather than specific entity.


  All true. The only reason for using the demonic names is to highlight that for many of these folks, this is functionally a religion that involves worship and sacrifice to the ideologies, and one fundamentally opposed to Christianity.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on March 07, 2022, 01:51:28 PM
A large city like say NYC? Turns it’s food supply over (roughly) every three days. Imagine now power grid down across the US in say mid February… Lord of the Flies in no time.

This was always the thing that kept me from really enjoying Season 5 of Gotham, which is predicated on (spoiler alert) the central part of Gotham being cut off by the actions of Jeremiah Valeska and R'as al-Ghul, turning the city into a no-man's-land isolated from the rest of the country which the villains carve up into territory between them. In the show this state of affairs goes on for months, and with every episode I had to keep reminding myself not to think about food supply logistics.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on March 07, 2022, 01:57:25 PM
Do you think cryptocurrencies will help with the inflation issue? So far they have not really been a total buffer, but that may change if widespread opinion loses faith in fiat.
It's a good question. But crypto relies heavily on the power grid staying in place, and if the currency goes the grid may be not far behind.

If you want to invest, do so, but I would NOT put all your eggs in that basket. Invest in tangible assets as well -- ammunition for firearms, or precious metals.

Mostly ditto. Crypto will need to decouple from the stock market before it can become an inflation hedge, which means we're still looking at a crash, and there are very real regulatory risks with crypto. I think some cryptos will be good assets after the crash, but most will not. Bitcoin's too power-hungry to weather the storm well. Cardano is power-efficient, but isn't used for much and delegated proof of stake requires big server farms...which are vulnerable to rolling blackouts.

I think Ethereum will be a good bet after it's upcoming network upgrade. DeFi and Decentralized exchanges will be very useful during a financial crash, and a post-merge Ethereum validator will only require running a gaming PC on idle as much as possible, and a broadband connection, which is probably doable in everything short of a 100% forever grid-down. Granted, that 32 ETH deposit per validator is worth an eye-watering amount of money. Full disclosure: I own a fair amount of Ether because I have an interest in developing on it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on March 07, 2022, 03:18:26 PM
People will probably start eating each other, and then there will be plenty of food.
And when *that* runs out?

Kidding aside that’s a huge taboo to bridge, and one I do t want to have to contemplate.

Quote
I think it may be time for me to move to the country. Maybe a cabin somewhere with a decent garden.
Problem with that is a (lot) of the good spots are already taken. Unless you’re a billionaire; they bought plots in Nee Zealand already.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on March 07, 2022, 04:49:39 PM
People will probably start eating each other, and then there will be plenty of food.
And when *that* runs out?

Kidding aside that’s a huge taboo to bridge, and one I do t want to have to contemplate.

Cant eat people now because they are all full of spike protein.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 07, 2022, 05:16:01 PM
People will probably start eating each other, and then there will be plenty of food.
And when *that* runs out?

Kidding aside that’s a huge taboo to bridge, and one I do t want to have to contemplate.

Quote
I think it may be time for me to move to the country. Maybe a cabin somewhere with a decent garden.
Problem with that is a (lot) of the good spots are already taken. Unless you’re a billionaire; they bought plots in Nee Zealand already.

  The book The Road paints a pretty dismal picture of how that works out.   
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on March 07, 2022, 05:27:10 PM
People will probably start eating each other, and then there will be plenty of food.
And when *that* runs out?

Kidding aside that’s a huge taboo to bridge, and one I do t want to have to contemplate.

Quote
I think it may be time for me to move to the country. Maybe a cabin somewhere with a decent garden.
Problem with that is a (lot) of the good spots are already taken. Unless you’re a billionaire; they bought plots in Nee Zealand already.

  The book The Road paints a pretty dismal picture of how that works out.
Great book and movie,
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: moonsweeper on March 07, 2022, 05:35:41 PM
People will probably start eating each other, and then there will be plenty of food.
And when *that* runs out?

Kidding aside that’s a huge taboo to bridge, and one I do t want to have to contemplate.

Cant eat people now because they are all full of spike protein.

Just have to prep properly and cook well done, you should be ok.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on March 07, 2022, 06:10:35 PM
People will probably start eating each other, and then there will be plenty of food.
And when *that* runs out?

Kidding aside that’s a huge taboo to bridge, and one I do t want to have to contemplate.

Cant eat people now because they are all full of spike protein.
Eating two people is equivalent to a booster shot!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on March 07, 2022, 07:19:28 PM
Don't think 'houses'. Think 'apartments'. Imagine how much food the urban hive inhabitants might have on hand.

Rural and possibly suburban areas should weather things all right. It's the urban areas that turn into pressure cookers when there's no power, no food, and no water.
I've been in some of their apartments.  I doubt they make it a week.  Many of these urban creatures order out for everything.
Personally I'm getting together a five year supply of Nuka-Cola and Brawndo.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 07, 2022, 08:12:27 PM
  I wonder how some of those people are going to function when we hit a grid down, no food on shelves scenario in the next couple years.  Reality is going to hit some people like a freaking sledge hammer.

What conspiracy theory apocalyptic prediction nonsense is this?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 07, 2022, 08:15:55 PM
Well, let's discuss what will realistically happen and then figure how RPG.Net lunatics will manage.

I don't think we're going to see an apocalypse, at least not where I live in the US. Americans are pretty used to a silver spoon lifestyle powered by a whole lot of internationally sourced consumer goods. That's not going to fly much longer. But on the other hand, the US basically produces enough oil and food to see to its own needs in a tight fit. Gas and food will be in shortage, but if you have a gas can and a pantry, it's probably not going to be unmanageable.

The monetary problems are what worries me. Long term the US Dollar is going to have significant inflation, but in the nearer term US Dollars may actually appreciate because there's a lot of international demand for it to cover USD denominated debt. Then there's the potential of the Federal Reserve rolling out a nightmare-dystopian CBDC to replace the dollar.

How do I think this will play out? Most RPG.Net kool-aid drinkers are addicted to the political activist mindset. When they stop seeing Apple, Avocados, and Abercrombie in the stores, they will protest. And they will either get one of those new fancy microwave LRADs used on them or have their bank accounts frozen. That's when the reality will hit. How they will react from there, I really don't know.

To be clear, I think this is all nonsense. But I am going to laugh if my (upcoming) solar power with battery system plus hybrid-electric vehicle (and my victory garden) end up allowing me to live a more normal life than all you "solar sucks, electric vehicles are not ready" guys :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: moonsweeper on March 07, 2022, 08:39:46 PM

To be clear, I think this is all nonsense. But I am going to laugh if my (upcoming) solar power with battery system plus hybrid-electric vehicle (and my victory garden) end up allowing me to live a more normal life than all you "solar sucks, electric vehicles are not ready" guys :)

People make fun of it because solar may work for a private residence with enough space and battery storage but it can't do shit for large scale urban complexes due to scalability...and the EVs aren't ready is because current power grid can't support large scale recharging.  Hell, Cali still has brownouts, right...what happens when another 20% of the population is using EVs?

As far as your little personal fiefdom, not everyone has the money for a private residence, a solar/battery system, and an EV.  Better make sure you have some protection and your neighbors aren't covetous...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 07, 2022, 08:44:32 PM

To be clear, I think this is all nonsense. But I am going to laugh if my (upcoming) solar power with battery system plus hybrid-electric vehicle (and my victory garden) end up allowing me to live a more normal life than all you "solar sucks, electric vehicles are not ready" guys :)

People make fun of it because solar may work for a private residence with enough space and battery storage but it can't do shit for large scale urban complexes due to scalability...and the EVs aren't ready is because current power grid can't support large scale recharging.  Hell, Cali still has brownouts, right...what happens when another 20% of the population is using EVs?

As far as your little personal fiefdom, not everyone has the money for a private residence, a solar/battery system, and an EV.  Better make sure you have some protection and your neighbors aren't covetous...

There is this weird rumor which persists about "cali brown-outs". We've had TWO in the past decade (one from fires, I don't recall the cause of the other one). And then a couple random small areas have the power company intentionally turn off power during high winds because they got sued and for stupid liability issues they keep doing this as a tool to try and get liability immunity. But no, we have plenty of power in California. More than the demand by far. Regardless, I am going to laugh if I'm the guy who is functional and PirateKat isn't.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 07, 2022, 09:04:50 PM
  I wonder how some of those people are going to function when we hit a grid down, no food on shelves scenario in the next couple years.  Reality is going to hit some people like a freaking sledge hammer.

What conspiracy theory apocalyptic prediction nonsense is this?

  I guess you miss we are prodding a bear these days?  I have no need for a conspiracy, we are a few screw ups from WW3, inflation is bad, rising gas prices are about to make it worse, political division and tension in the country are not amazing right now, our power grid (and honestly internet) infrastructure are pretty old, do not have a whole lot of back up (one reactor scram can black out 4-8 states) and people sure are used to having reliable power. 

   Its not exactly a conspiracy the country, heck the world, could see a few really bad months.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 07, 2022, 09:14:42 PM
Well, let's discuss what will realistically happen and then figure how RPG.Net lunatics will manage.

I don't think we're going to see an apocalypse, at least not where I live in the US. Americans are pretty used to a silver spoon lifestyle powered by a whole lot of internationally sourced consumer goods. That's not going to fly much longer. But on the other hand, the US basically produces enough oil and food to see to its own needs in a tight fit. Gas and food will be in shortage, but if you have a gas can and a pantry, it's probably not going to be unmanageable.

The monetary problems are what worries me. Long term the US Dollar is going to have significant inflation, but in the nearer term US Dollars may actually appreciate because there's a lot of international demand for it to cover USD denominated debt. Then there's the potential of the Federal Reserve rolling out a nightmare-dystopian CBDC to replace the dollar.

How do I think this will play out? Most RPG.Net kool-aid drinkers are addicted to the political activist mindset. When they stop seeing Apple, Avocados, and Abercrombie in the stores, they will protest. And they will either get one of those new fancy microwave LRADs used on them or have their bank accounts frozen. That's when the reality will hit. How they will react from there, I really don't know.

To be clear, I think this is all nonsense. But I am going to laugh if my (upcoming) solar power with battery system plus hybrid-electric vehicle (and my victory garden) end up allowing me to live a more normal life than all you "solar sucks, electric vehicles are not ready" guys :)

  Solar power is great, the batteries are not.  For long periods of time with no power grid you will be in great shape IMO, as the batteries can last for 5 years with pretty constant use.  Solar panels have advanced a good deal past where batteries are, but they have come a long ways too.  As for the vehicle, if its not 4WD and fully electric, I think it won't be worth much if its SHTF.  Fully electric vehicle is better, hybrid to my understanding needs the combustion engine for various portions of transit.  Fully electric you can always charge the car with panels during the day.   I bet people before WW2 thought it was all nonsense too. Hell I have a book by a guy who was in germany as hitler rose to power....no one seemed to really see that coming either.  I suspect people in the roaring 20's felt it was all nonsense about these market crashes.   The USA is extremely vulnerable to dominoes dropping.  I have no real concerns that they do, if they do, they do.  I do not spend an inordinate amount of time worried about it.  I suggest owning firearms, pistol, shotgun, and a rifle.   In that order, as that is IMO the order of importance to owning them.  A better to have and never need than need once and not have sort of thing.   

  Past that, I think people who hoard ammo and food are a little out there as to the reality of what is probable.  Usable skills are better to cultivate and invest time in.  Like I heard a guy say, if you have 2k rounds of ammo, but you can not identify 4 trees that grow near your house, you are spending energy and focus in the wrong areas.   I think it always helps to have some level of insurance.  If nothing happens, oh well I spent some time and money on things I did not have a pressing need for.  If something does, well at least I have some level of ability to navigate intangibles.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on March 07, 2022, 09:22:14 PM
  I wonder how some of those people are going to function when we hit a grid down, no food on shelves scenario in the next couple years.  Reality is going to hit some people like a freaking sledge hammer.

What conspiracy theory apocalyptic prediction nonsense is this?

  I guess you miss we are prodding a bear these days?  I have no need for a conspiracy, we are a few screw ups from WW3, inflation is bad, rising gas prices are about to make it worse, political division and tension in the country are not amazing right now, our power grid (and honestly internet) infrastructure are pretty old, do not have a whole lot of back up (one reactor scram can black out 4-8 states) and people sure are used to having reliable power. 

   Its not exactly a conspiracy the country, heck the world, could see a few really bad months.
Its no surprise that those on the left think that bad things can't happen. After all, the current ones grew up in comic book notions of batman punching out the bad guys; their lives appear to be that simplistic. That the gravy train will roll forever onward. Inflation, scarcity? Nope aint happening in their world view.

The old saying has never been more true:
"Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times, bad times make strong men."

Guess which stage we are at currently.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on March 07, 2022, 09:29:26 PM
A large city like say NYC? Turns it’s food supply over (roughly) every three days. Imagine now power grid down across the US in say mid February… Lord of the Flies in no time.

This was always the thing that kept me from really enjoying Season 5 of Gotham, which is predicated on (spoiler alert) the central part of Gotham being cut off by the actions of Jeremiah Valeska and R'as al-Ghul, turning the city into a no-man's-land isolated from the rest of the country which the villains carve up into territory between them. In the show this state of affairs goes on for months, and with every episode I had to keep reminding myself not to think about food supply logistics.
There's that and the other big thing people don't think about in TEOTWAWKI? Sanitation. Far more people are going to die off due to lack of sanitation and potable drinking water than marauding gangs Mad Max style. And the ass-clowns in major cities? Huge percentages of them would have no idea what to do if brown water started pouring out of the pipes or none at all.

Same in Gotham I suspect, haven't seen it but I'm guessing the streets are nice and tidy with garbage service and public utilities functioning?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 07, 2022, 09:31:11 PM
  I wonder how some of those people are going to function when we hit a grid down, no food on shelves scenario in the next couple years.  Reality is going to hit some people like a freaking sledge hammer.

What conspiracy theory apocalyptic prediction nonsense is this?

  I guess you miss we are prodding a bear these days?  I have no need for a conspiracy, we are a few screw ups from WW3, inflation is bad, rising gas prices are about to make it worse, political division and tension in the country are not amazing right now, our power grid (and honestly internet) infrastructure are pretty old, do not have a whole lot of back up (one reactor scram can black out 4-8 states) and people sure are used to having reliable power. 

   Its not exactly a conspiracy the country, heck the world, could see a few really bad months.
Its no surprise that those on the left think that bad things can't happen. After all, the current ones grew up in comic book notions of batman punching out the bad guys; their lives appear to be that simplistic. That the gravy train will roll forever onward. Inflation, scarcity? Nope aint happening in their world view.

The old saying has never been more true:
"Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times, bad times make strong men."

Guess which stage we are at currently.

  Considering 71 percent of men ages 18-24 are not fit for military service, I think I can take a guess.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on March 07, 2022, 10:11:11 PM
Its no surprise that those on the left think that bad things can't happen. After all, the current ones grew up in comic book notions of batman punching out the bad guys; their lives appear to be that simplistic. That the gravy train will roll forever onward. Inflation, scarcity? Nope aint happening in their world view.

The old saying has never been more true:
"Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times, bad times make strong men."

Guess which stage we are at currently.
Let me guess, you listen to Tim Pool. Because that guy can't fucking shut up about the fourth turning. It's only slightly less annoying that his habit of constantly cutting off his guests.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 07, 2022, 10:11:52 PM
Its no surprise that those on the left think that bad things can't happen. After all, the current ones grew up in comic book notions of batman punching out the bad guys; their lives appear to be that simplistic. That the gravy train will roll forever onward. Inflation, scarcity? Nope aint happening in their world view.

The old saying has never been more true:
"Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times, bad times make strong men."

Guess which stage we are at currently.
Let me guess, you listen to Tim Pool. Because that guy can't fucking shut up about the fourth turning. It's only slightly less annoying that his habit of constantly cutting off his guests.
But is he wrong?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on March 07, 2022, 10:18:15 PM
Its no surprise that those on the left think that bad things can't happen. After all, the current ones grew up in comic book notions of batman punching out the bad guys; their lives appear to be that simplistic. That the gravy train will roll forever onward. Inflation, scarcity? Nope aint happening in their world view.

The old saying has never been more true:
"Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times, bad times make strong men."

Guess which stage we are at currently.
Let me guess, you listen to Tim Pool. Because that guy can't fucking shut up about the fourth turning. It's only slightly less annoying that his habit of constantly cutting off his guests.
Don't quit your day job and take up mind reading. No idea who Tim Pool is.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on March 07, 2022, 10:19:43 PM
Its no surprise that those on the left think that bad things can't happen. After all, the current ones grew up in comic book notions of batman punching out the bad guys; their lives appear to be that simplistic. That the gravy train will roll forever onward. Inflation, scarcity? Nope aint happening in their world view.

The old saying has never been more true:
"Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times, bad times make strong men."

Guess which stage we are at currently.
Let me guess, you listen to Tim Pool. Because that guy can't fucking shut up about the fourth turning. It's only slightly less annoying that his habit of constantly cutting off his guests.
Don't quit your day job and take up mind reading. No idea who Tim Pool is.
I did say guess, didn't I? Oh, I did. I'm not one of the many mind readers on this forum. I made a guess, and labeled it as one. Douchebag.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on March 07, 2022, 10:20:55 PM
Its no surprise that those on the left think that bad things can't happen. After all, the current ones grew up in comic book notions of batman punching out the bad guys; their lives appear to be that simplistic. That the gravy train will roll forever onward. Inflation, scarcity? Nope aint happening in their world view.

The old saying has never been more true:
"Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times, bad times make strong men."

Guess which stage we are at currently.
Let me guess, you listen to Tim Pool. Because that guy can't fucking shut up about the fourth turning. It's only slightly less annoying that his habit of constantly cutting off his guests.
Don't quit your day job and take up mind reading. No idea who Tim Pool is.
I did say guess, didn't I? Oh, I did. I'm not one of the many mind readers on this forum. I made a guess, and labeled it as one. Douchebag.

Thats not what you thought when I was mind reading you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 07, 2022, 10:21:35 PM
  It looks like Pat may watch tim more than we do.  I used to watch him every other month or so, but he had a dude on there who just rubbed me the wrong way big time, so I have not seen his show in a bit.  The dude that rubbed me the wrong way apparently had a shitload of negative press over some incident being rude on some other show, so I guess I was not the only one who found him annoying.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on March 07, 2022, 10:28:15 PM
  It looks like Pat may watch tim more than we do.  I used to watch him every other month or so, but he had a dude on there who just rubbed me the wrong way big time, so I have not seen his show in a bit.  The dude that rubbed me the wrong way apparently had a shitload of negative press over some incident being rude on some other show, so I guess I was not the only one who found him annoying.
I stopped listening to him a while back, as well. I like that there are alternative news sources, but he's way too full of himself.

But hey, time to get back to the hating of everything purple and not small.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on March 07, 2022, 10:29:20 PM
Its no surprise that those on the left think that bad things can't happen. After all, the current ones grew up in comic book notions of batman punching out the bad guys; their lives appear to be that simplistic. That the gravy train will roll forever onward. Inflation, scarcity? Nope aint happening in their world view.

The old saying has never been more true:
"Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times, bad times make strong men."

Guess which stage we are at currently.
Let me guess, you listen to Tim Pool. Because that guy can't fucking shut up about the fourth turning. It's only slightly less annoying that his habit of constantly cutting off his guests.
Don't quit your day job and take up mind reading. No idea who Tim Pool is.
I did say guess, didn't I? Oh, I did. I'm not one of the many mind readers on this forum. I made a guess, and labeled it as one. Douchebag.
Nice try, stop again when you have something concrete. If you don't like people calling you out don't try couching it in "I guessed".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on March 07, 2022, 10:37:06 PM
Nice try, stop again when you have something concrete. If you don't like people calling you out don't try couching it in "I guessed".
Oh, so you're telling me to become a mind reader, like so many idiots on this board? You're a special type of idiot, aren't you?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 07, 2022, 10:38:40 PM
  It looks like Pat may watch tim more than we do.  I used to watch him every other month or so, but he had a dude on there who just rubbed me the wrong way big time, so I have not seen his show in a bit.  The dude that rubbed me the wrong way apparently had a shitload of negative press over some incident being rude on some other show, so I guess I was not the only one who found him annoying.
I stopped listening to him a while back, as well. I like that there are alternative news sources, but he's way too full of himself.

But hey, time to get back to the hating of everything purple and not small.

  Well, they have not banned anyone for russian apologism or using white supremacist talking points for a few hours.  Given that I think they are also the sort of people who are really, really, really going to hate the system they bitch about so much collapsing, it seems relevant. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on March 07, 2022, 10:42:53 PM
Its no surprise that those on the left think that bad things can't happen. After all, the current ones grew up in comic book notions of batman punching out the bad guys; their lives appear to be that simplistic. That the gravy train will roll forever onward. Inflation, scarcity? Nope aint happening in their world view.

The old saying has never been more true:
"Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times, bad times make strong men."

Guess which stage we are at currently.
Let me guess, you listen to Tim Pool. Because that guy can't fucking shut up about the fourth turning. It's only slightly less annoying that his habit of constantly cutting off his guests.
But is he wrong?
It's standard apocalyptic doommongering, nothing more. It's basically the right's version of the "right side of history" from Marxist thought.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 07, 2022, 10:45:37 PM
Its no surprise that those on the left think that bad things can't happen. After all, the current ones grew up in comic book notions of batman punching out the bad guys; their lives appear to be that simplistic. That the gravy train will roll forever onward. Inflation, scarcity? Nope aint happening in their world view.

The old saying has never been more true:
"Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times, bad times make strong men."

Guess which stage we are at currently.
Let me guess, you listen to Tim Pool. Because that guy can't fucking shut up about the fourth turning. It's only slightly less annoying that his habit of constantly cutting off his guests.
But is he wrong?
It's standard apocalyptic doommongering, nothing more. It's basically the right's version of the "right side of history" from Marxist thought.

  Well, if there was ever a time to take up doommongering.....seems like an opportune period in history.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on March 07, 2022, 11:07:26 PM
Its no surprise that those on the left think that bad things can't happen. After all, the current ones grew up in comic book notions of batman punching out the bad guys; their lives appear to be that simplistic. That the gravy train will roll forever onward. Inflation, scarcity? Nope aint happening in their world view.

The old saying has never been more true:
"Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times, bad times make strong men."

Guess which stage we are at currently.
Let me guess, you listen to Tim Pool. Because that guy can't fucking shut up about the fourth turning. It's only slightly less annoying that his habit of constantly cutting off his guests.
But is he wrong?
It's standard apocalyptic doommongering, nothing more. It's basically the right's version of the "right side of history" from Marxist thought.

  Well, if there was ever a time to take up doommongering.....seems like an opportune period in history.

I may have been wrong 50 times before but this time, this time for sure we are all dooomed!

Thank goodness it will be the cleansing nuclear fire instead of the blue hair land whales that I previously predicted would be the DOOOM.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on March 07, 2022, 11:13:38 PM
Its no surprise that those on the left think that bad things can't happen. After all, the current ones grew up in comic book notions of batman punching out the bad guys; their lives appear to be that simplistic. That the gravy train will roll forever onward. Inflation, scarcity? Nope aint happening in their world view.

The old saying has never been more true:
"Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times, bad times make strong men."

Guess which stage we are at currently.
Let me guess, you listen to Tim Pool. Because that guy can't fucking shut up about the fourth turning. It's only slightly less annoying that his habit of constantly cutting off his guests.
But is he wrong?
It's standard apocalyptic doommongering, nothing more. It's basically the right's version of the "right side of history" from Marxist thought.

  Well, if there was ever a time to take up doommongering.....seems like an opportune period in history.
Crackpot theories become more popular during a crisis.

We're heading into potentially bad times, but it's because a lot of very specific causes are coming together in a complex fashion. Grand cycles of history make for good soundbytes, but bad analysis and policy. And we could be wrong -- a lot of people predicted doom after the 2008 crash, but we ended up with one of the longest bull markets in history, a fairly stable world, and the West was so safe that people could get all worked up about inconsequentials. Maybe they'll tame inflation. Maybe they'll put a couple bandaids on the welfare state timebomb and kick it down the road again for another generation to worry about. Maybe we'll end up with a major public figure with the sincerity to call for public unity, and get people to believe them. Maybe the parent revolt will take back education. Maybe a bad loss will convert the left into federalists, and allow California and West Virginia to go their own ways on a lot of issues. Maybe the West will make concessions, and Putin will back down. Maybe TPB will spin off Tangency. Probably not, but stranger things have occasionally happened.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on March 07, 2022, 11:18:02 PM
Nice try, stop again when you have something concrete. If you don't like people calling you out don't try couching it in "I guessed".
Oh, so you're telling me to become a mind reader, like so many idiots on this board? You're a special type of idiot, aren't you?
C'mon I'm sure you have better put downs than that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 07, 2022, 11:24:55 PM
Its no surprise that those on the left think that bad things can't happen. After all, the current ones grew up in comic book notions of batman punching out the bad guys; their lives appear to be that simplistic. That the gravy train will roll forever onward. Inflation, scarcity? Nope aint happening in their world view.

The old saying has never been more true:
"Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times, bad times make strong men."

Guess which stage we are at currently.
Let me guess, you listen to Tim Pool. Because that guy can't fucking shut up about the fourth turning. It's only slightly less annoying that his habit of constantly cutting off his guests.
But is he wrong?
It's standard apocalyptic doommongering, nothing more. It's basically the right's version of the "right side of history" from Marxist thought.

  Well, if there was ever a time to take up doommongering.....seems like an opportune period in history.

I may have been wrong 50 times before but this time, this time for sure we are all dooomed!

Thank goodness it will be the cleansing nuclear fire instead of the blue hair land whales that I previously predicted would be the DOOOM.

   Being a doommonger is like being a terrorist, you only have to get it right once to be called a success.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on March 08, 2022, 12:09:44 AM
Far more people are going to die off due to lack of sanitation and potable drinking water than marauding gangs Mad Max style. And the ass-clowns in major cities? Huge percentages of them would have no idea what to do if brown water started pouring out of the pipes or none at all.

Same in Gotham I suspect, haven't seen it but I'm guessing the streets are nice and tidy with garbage service and public utilities functioning?

Well, the streets are cosmetically filthy and rubble-strewn, and large chunks of the populace are shown living in squalor, but certainly there seems to be mysteriously just enough clean water available from somewhere to prevent large piles of thirst-slain corpses accumulating.

If memory serves the isolated part of the city was an island in the middle of an ostensibly freshwater river, so in theory water was there and they just left out all the boring parts of fetching and boiling it for dramatic narrative convenience. But it's like trying to figure out travel times in Game of Thrones -- better just not to bother about the issue and enjoy the story.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on March 08, 2022, 12:10:51 AM
Being a doommonger is like being a terrorist, you only have to get it right once to be called a success.

The problem is that nobody's around for long to appreciate it when you are.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 08, 2022, 12:23:10 AM
  I wonder how some of those people are going to function when we hit a grid down, no food on shelves scenario in the next couple years.  Reality is going to hit some people like a freaking sledge hammer.

What conspiracy theory apocalyptic prediction nonsense is this?

  I guess you miss we are prodding a bear these days?  I have no need for a conspiracy, we are a few screw ups from WW3, inflation is bad, rising gas prices are about to make it worse, political division and tension in the country are not amazing right now, our power grid (and honestly internet) infrastructure are pretty old, do not have a whole lot of back up (one reactor scram can black out 4-8 states) and people sure are used to having reliable power. 

   Its not exactly a conspiracy the country, heck the world, could see a few really bad months.

I await your "only through Jesus can you be saved" spiel.

Yeah, I am prepared but remain fairly unconcerned about your apocalypse.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 08, 2022, 12:27:41 AM
Well, let's discuss what will realistically happen and then figure how RPG.Net lunatics will manage.

I don't think we're going to see an apocalypse, at least not where I live in the US. Americans are pretty used to a silver spoon lifestyle powered by a whole lot of internationally sourced consumer goods. That's not going to fly much longer. But on the other hand, the US basically produces enough oil and food to see to its own needs in a tight fit. Gas and food will be in shortage, but if you have a gas can and a pantry, it's probably not going to be unmanageable.

The monetary problems are what worries me. Long term the US Dollar is going to have significant inflation, but in the nearer term US Dollars may actually appreciate because there's a lot of international demand for it to cover USD denominated debt. Then there's the potential of the Federal Reserve rolling out a nightmare-dystopian CBDC to replace the dollar.

How do I think this will play out? Most RPG.Net kool-aid drinkers are addicted to the political activist mindset. When they stop seeing Apple, Avocados, and Abercrombie in the stores, they will protest. And they will either get one of those new fancy microwave LRADs used on them or have their bank accounts frozen. That's when the reality will hit. How they will react from there, I really don't know.

To be clear, I think this is all nonsense. But I am going to laugh if my (upcoming) solar power with battery system plus hybrid-electric vehicle (and my victory garden) end up allowing me to live a more normal life than all you "solar sucks, electric vehicles are not ready" guys :)

  Solar power is great, the batteries are not.  For long periods of time with no power grid you will be in great shape IMO, as the batteries can last for 5 years with pretty constant use.  Solar panels have advanced a good deal past where batteries are, but they have come a long ways too.  As for the vehicle, if its not 4WD and fully electric, I think it won't be worth much if its SHTF.  Fully electric vehicle is better, hybrid to my understanding needs the combustion engine for various portions of transit.

Naw. I have a plug-in hybrid. It functions 100% electric until it runs out of battery power and only then shifts into combustion. It's enough to get me to work and back every day with no combustion. Only reason I ever fill up with gas (which is about once every other month) is because of longer drives I might take outside that commute.

Gas just hit $6/gallon around here by the way.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on March 08, 2022, 06:38:04 AM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on March 08, 2022, 07:42:13 AM

To be clear, I think this is all nonsense. But I am going to laugh if my (upcoming) solar power with battery system plus hybrid-electric vehicle (and my victory garden) end up allowing me to live a more normal life than all you "solar sucks, electric vehicles are not ready" guys :)

People make fun of it because solar may work for a private residence with enough space and battery storage but it can't do shit for large scale urban complexes due to scalability...and the EVs aren't ready is because current power grid can't support large scale recharging.  Hell, Cali still has brownouts, right...what happens when another 20% of the population is using EVs?

As far as your little personal fiefdom, not everyone has the money for a private residence, a solar/battery system, and an EV.  Better make sure you have some protection and your neighbors aren't covetous...

The large scale recharging is an underrated problem with EVs. Most people don't know it, but the way the power grid works is by matching production to demand in real time so the voltage of the network stays in the correct range. Generally, electric vehicles charging at home is no problem because it's at night when power demand is naturally low. But it really doesn't take much fast-charging during daylight hours to upset the grid.

Also, solar isn't necessarily what it's cracked up to be. Most solar panel systems work by selling power back onto the grid, which means that if the grid goes down...you're still out of power. If you want power during a brownout or a rolling blackout, you need power storage, and that's either in the form of a gas generator (loud), a home backup battery (many dollar signs) or a power station/ "solar generator." I use a power station as an uninterruptible power supply; it's pretty expensive for what it is, and that's ignoring the fact that solar panels are typically sold separately.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 08, 2022, 09:00:23 AM
  I wonder how some of those people are going to function when we hit a grid down, no food on shelves scenario in the next couple years.  Reality is going to hit some people like a freaking sledge hammer.

What conspiracy theory apocalyptic prediction nonsense is this?

  I guess you miss we are prodding a bear these days?  I have no need for a conspiracy, we are a few screw ups from WW3, inflation is bad, rising gas prices are about to make it worse, political division and tension in the country are not amazing right now, our power grid (and honestly internet) infrastructure are pretty old, do not have a whole lot of back up (one reactor scram can black out 4-8 states) and people sure are used to having reliable power. 

   Its not exactly a conspiracy the country, heck the world, could see a few really bad months.

I await your "only through Jesus can you be saved" spiel.

Yeah, I am prepared but remain fairly unconcerned about your apocalypse.

  You pick any imaginary friend you like.  Your concerns have no effect on me, just like your concerns did not stop many other societal collapses through history.  History and reality just do not care about our concerns.  I am not calling for an apocalypse, I do not think the probability is high, and reality is, if we have a full on collapse you are fucked just from geography. Most everyone on here is. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 08, 2022, 09:22:13 AM
Stop talking to Mistwell and let's have a round of shooting at the fish in the barrel.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/eric-the-5b-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-threadban.894738/

Q99 being a retard, they didn't bother to post the reasoning in the infraction. But it's everything you'd expect:

"Eric the .5b, you have a habit of making posts that are juuussst on this side of the line of being redtextworthy, and this one crosses the line for being rude and aggressive for no real reason. For the time being do not post in this thread again, and I also recommend taking a real thought on your posting style. This is an official warning."

Context? Well, Eric and another user (Proteus) started slapfighting. Evidently Proteus went and cried to the mods first though.

LOL.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 08, 2022, 11:07:42 AM
So he got in trouble for being suspected of wrong think.  It looks like they were looking at everything he posts and waiting, and he got close enough for them to slap him a little.  I think they are likely all on medication, and probably a lot of it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 08, 2022, 11:25:47 AM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on March 08, 2022, 11:42:44 AM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.
This guy gets it.

And any plan that doesn’t include nuclear is a pipe dream right now.

As far as electric? Get me something that has the performance, weight, off road capabilities of my mid sized truck where I don’t have to head home to charge? Sure
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 08, 2022, 11:50:29 AM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.
This guy gets it.

And any plan that doesn’t include nuclear is a pipe dream right now.

As far as electric? Get me something that has the performance, weight, off road capabilities of my mid sized truck where I don’t have to head home to charge? Sure
Task, conditions and standards for electric vehicles is racist or something :D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 08, 2022, 11:56:35 AM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.
This guy gets it.

And any plan that doesn’t include nuclear is a pipe dream right now.

As far as electric? Get me something that has the performance, weight, off road capabilities of my mid sized truck where I don’t have to head home to charge? Sure

One of the reasons EVs are another pipe dream is energy density. We're at the limit off our actual battery technology. Plus your EV weights the same with the tank full or empty. Which means you'll never have the Tesla EV Trucks replacing the Diesel ones.

Add to it the recharging time and all the contamination in minning, manufacturing, transporting and disposing of the batteries and your "Net Zero" vehicle turns out to be WORST than my Gasoline powered one.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on March 08, 2022, 12:02:11 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.
This guy gets it.

And any plan that doesn’t include nuclear is a pipe dream right now.

As far as electric? Get me something that has the performance, weight, off road capabilities of my mid sized truck where I don’t have to head home to charge? Sure

One of the reasons EVs are another pipe dream is energy density. We're at the limit off our actual battery technology. Plus your EV weights the same with the tank full or empty. Which means you'll never have the Tesla EV Trucks replacing the Diesel ones.

Add to it the recharging time and all the contamination in minning, manufacturing, transporting and disposing of the batteries and your "Net Zero" vehicle turns out to be WORST than my Gasoline powered one.
That's also true of the renewable technologies that are supposed to generate the power for the electric vehicles. Many claims about solar or wind efficiency and environmental impact ignore lifecycle costs, like disposing of piezoelectric panels or turbines.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 08, 2022, 12:10:14 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.

https://www.nwcouncil.org/energy/energy-topics/hydropower

Other places, I don't know, but I suspect more on the fossil fuel side.

What interests me is what exactly the world would look like at 100% solar and wind generation. How many solar panels is that? How many wind turbines? How many batteries to cover the times when solar and wind are unavailable? What is the environmental impact of covering the land with solar panels? They are, by definition, intercepting sunlight and preventing it from hitting the ground. Even deserts (where many solar farms are located) have ecosystems.

It would be tragicomic if the next big environmental disaster was caused by "renewable, green energy".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on March 08, 2022, 12:26:03 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.

https://www.nwcouncil.org/energy/energy-topics/hydropower

Other places, I don't know, but I suspect more on the fossil fuel side.

What interests me is what exactly the world would look like at 100% solar and wind generation. How many solar panels is that? How many wind turbines? How many batteries to cover the times when solar and wind are unavailable? What is the environmental impact of covering the land with solar panels? They are, by definition, intercepting sunlight and preventing it from hitting the ground. Even deserts (where many solar farms are located) have ecosystems.

It would be tragicomic if the next big environmental disaster was caused by "renewable, green energy".

For sure there is a difference between "Russian troops shell a Nuclear power plant" and "Russian troops shell a photovoltaic power plant". ::)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 08, 2022, 12:26:36 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.

https://www.nwcouncil.org/energy/energy-topics/hydropower

Other places, I don't know, but I suspect more on the fossil fuel side.

What interests me is what exactly the world would look like at 100% solar and wind generation. How many solar panels is that? How many wind turbines? How many batteries to cover the times when solar and wind are unavailable? What is the environmental impact of covering the land with solar panels? They are, by definition, intercepting sunlight and preventing it from hitting the ground. Even deserts (where many solar farms are located) have ecosystems.

It would be tragicomic if the next big environmental disaster was caused by "renewable, green energy".

Hydro as in Dams with turbines right? The only other really Green energy source besides Nuclear and Geothermal that are cheap and reliable.

But the ecoterrorists are equally against dams because muh environmental impact. But are in favor of minning 100x more lithium because those mines don't have an enviromental impact or something.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 08, 2022, 12:30:26 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.

https://www.nwcouncil.org/energy/energy-topics/hydropower

Other places, I don't know, but I suspect more on the fossil fuel side.

What interests me is what exactly the world would look like at 100% solar and wind generation. How many solar panels is that? How many wind turbines? How many batteries to cover the times when solar and wind are unavailable? What is the environmental impact of covering the land with solar panels? They are, by definition, intercepting sunlight and preventing it from hitting the ground. Even deserts (where many solar farms are located) have ecosystems.

It would be tragicomic if the next big environmental disaster was caused by "renewable, green energy".

For sure there is a difference between "Russian troops shell a Nuclear power plant" and "Russian troops shell a photovoltaic power plant". ::)

Besides the latter not being able to provide the energy you need?

What little extra contamination you get from the shelling of a nuclear power plant is from the difference between the manufacturing of your solar panels + batteries vs the radioactivity after the shelling.

But sure, lets condemen most of the world's population to missery because someday some Russian troops might shell a nuclear plant.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 08, 2022, 12:34:38 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.

https://www.nwcouncil.org/energy/energy-topics/hydropower

Other places, I don't know, but I suspect more on the fossil fuel side.

What interests me is what exactly the world would look like at 100% solar and wind generation. How many solar panels is that? How many wind turbines? How many batteries to cover the times when solar and wind are unavailable? What is the environmental impact of covering the land with solar panels? They are, by definition, intercepting sunlight and preventing it from hitting the ground. Even deserts (where many solar farms are located) have ecosystems.

It would be tragicomic if the next big environmental disaster was caused by "renewable, green energy".

Hydro as in Dams with turbines right? The only other really Green energy source besides Nuclear and Geothermal that are cheap and reliable.

But the ecoterrorists are equally against dams because muh environmental impact. But are in favor of minning 100x more lithium because those mines don't have an enviromental impact or something.

Yep and yep. Any power generation is going to have some environmental impact. And there's far too much "activism" going on to get a clear picture of which is least worst option.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 08, 2022, 12:38:23 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.

https://www.nwcouncil.org/energy/energy-topics/hydropower

Other places, I don't know, but I suspect more on the fossil fuel side.

What interests me is what exactly the world would look like at 100% solar and wind generation. How many solar panels is that? How many wind turbines? How many batteries to cover the times when solar and wind are unavailable? What is the environmental impact of covering the land with solar panels? They are, by definition, intercepting sunlight and preventing it from hitting the ground. Even deserts (where many solar farms are located) have ecosystems.

It would be tragicomic if the next big environmental disaster was caused by "renewable, green energy".

For sure there is a difference between "Russian troops shell a Nuclear power plant" and "Russian troops shell a photovoltaic power plant". ::)

  Part of the issue there is the way the plants (Russian) are designed.  No idea if that plant is of their older designs.  I know we always heard extremely negative comparisons in Naval Nuclear Power School, and Prototype training from instructors regarding safety design of Russian plants, both civilian and military.  An old design nuclear war ship getting hit is as bad, or worse honestly than that plant if they still have the same design features (demand for max power, and minimum safety).   Nuclear power as the west designs is safe, but once you start lobbing bombs at anything...it becomes a different conversation.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 08, 2022, 12:41:30 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The solar power and batteries I mentioned when I said it?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 08, 2022, 12:44:01 PM
Stop talking to Mistwell and let's have a round of shooting at the fish in the barrel.

Agreed!

Seriously though. This is my favorite thread on TheRPGSite. And I don't even post at The Big Purple and never have, aside from a handful of posts over decades. Still, this remains the most entertaining thread here.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 08, 2022, 12:46:38 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.

https://www.nwcouncil.org/energy/energy-topics/hydropower

Other places, I don't know, but I suspect more on the fossil fuel side.

What interests me is what exactly the world would look like at 100% solar and wind generation. How many solar panels is that? How many wind turbines? How many batteries to cover the times when solar and wind are unavailable? What is the environmental impact of covering the land with solar panels? They are, by definition, intercepting sunlight and preventing it from hitting the ground. Even deserts (where many solar farms are located) have ecosystems.

It would be tragicomic if the next big environmental disaster was caused by "renewable, green energy".

Hydro as in Dams with turbines right? The only other really Green energy source besides Nuclear and Geothermal that are cheap and reliable.

But the ecoterrorists are equally against dams because muh environmental impact. But are in favor of minning 100x more lithium because those mines don't have an enviromental impact or something.

Yep and yep. Any power generation is going to have some environmental impact. And there's far too much "activism" going on to get a clear picture of which is least worst option.

Well, unless you think the EUSSR is doing activism against the ecoterrorists the science is in. It has been for a long while but now it's from "authoritative sources".

Nuclear is by far the cheapest and safest.

Searching for the studie and/or the graphics but Google doesn't like it so it will take a while.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 08, 2022, 12:47:57 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

Me: I have a hybrid electric car with an upcoming solar panels and battery for power storage. If I end up being the guy with power when others don't it's gonna be funny.
Him: But where does the electricity come from?
You: The electricity fairy of course.

So, did you and him lie, or are you literally not able to read what was a couple simple sentences?

It's not like I was advocating for anyone else to get an electric car and solar and a battery. I literally just said if power was lost and I happened to be the guy still able to drive I'd laugh. And you guys lost your shit and started ranting and patting each others backs about complete nonsense nobody had said or implied.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on March 08, 2022, 12:56:52 PM

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.
Hydro provides about 7% of US power, and we're basically at maximum capacity. And the demand for energy keeps rising.

And that's the ignoring the real environmental impacts of dams. They've mitigated some of it with things like fish ladders, but they're far less effective than most people assume.
https://e360.yale.edu/features/blocked_migration_fish_ladders_on_us_dams_are_not_effective
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 08, 2022, 01:08:55 PM
Okay, found the video, it's in spanish but you can use automated translation, furthermore it has the link to the European Comission Report.



Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 08, 2022, 01:12:09 PM

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.
Hydro provides about 7% of US power, and we're basically at maximum capacity. And the demand for energy keeps rising.

And that's the ignoring the real environmental impacts of dams. They've mitigated some of it with things like fish ladders, but they're far less effective than most people assume.
https://e360.yale.edu/features/blocked_migration_fish_ladders_on_us_dams_are_not_effective

We're nowhere close to maximum capacity on hydro. We have not even really begun to generate power from the ocean for example. Which, as you rightly point out, is as always blocked by environmentalists. Who cannot make up their minds about which is more important, global warming from gasoline, or minor environmental damage to fish.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 08, 2022, 01:12:37 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

Me: I have a hybrid electric car with an upcoming solar panels and battery for power storage. If I end up being the guy with power when others don't it's gonna be funny.
Him: But where does the electricity come from?
You: The electricity fairy of course.

So, did you and him lie, or are you literally not able to read what was a couple simple sentences?

It's not like I was advocating for anyone else to get an electric car and solar and a battery. I literally just said if power was lost and I happened to be the guy still able to drive I'd laugh. And you guys lost your shit and started ranting and patting each others backs about complete nonsense nobody had said or implied.

IF/WHEN you manage to have your electric car charged ALWAYS only with solar we can talk. And this means all the process IS powered only by solar, meaning the minning, transportation, processing of materials, manufacturing, transportation (of the finished product).

Pro tip that's also a pipe dream. At best you're moving the contamination to where you can't see it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 08, 2022, 01:27:06 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

Me: I have a hybrid electric car with an upcoming solar panels and battery for power storage. If I end up being the guy with power when others don't it's gonna be funny.
Him: But where does the electricity come from?
You: The electricity fairy of course.

So, did you and him lie, or are you literally not able to read what was a couple simple sentences?

It's not like I was advocating for anyone else to get an electric car and solar and a battery. I literally just said if power was lost and I happened to be the guy still able to drive I'd laugh. And you guys lost your shit and started ranting and patting each others backs about complete nonsense nobody had said or implied.

IF/WHEN you manage to have your electric car charged ALWAYS only with solar we can talk. And this means all the process IS powered only by solar, meaning the minning, transportation, processing of materials, manufacturing, transportation (of the finished product).

Pro tip that's also a pipe dream. At best you're moving the contamination to where you can't see it.

WTF are you still ranting about. OK, am now left with only one conclusion: You're a fucking idiot. Like actually not bright enough to comprehend the difference between broader advocacy and an off-hand personal joke.

There is no dream here to be a pipe dream. I am not moving anything, or advocating anything. I didn't make any comment about the environment, or mining, or anything. I didn't say or imply I am morally superior in any way about anything. I am however saying you're a fucking idiot for your inability to see what was in front of you in this thread.

Here I will say it even plainer for you: If I end up to be the schmuck left still able to drive after the catastrophe that I am saying won't happen, I am going to laugh at you guys saying it will happen who don't have a way to drive. There, easy enough for you to digest now? Do you see me advocating for anything there?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on March 08, 2022, 01:27:36 PM

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.
Hydro provides about 7% of US power, and we're basically at maximum capacity. And the demand for energy keeps rising.

And that's the ignoring the real environmental impacts of dams. They've mitigated some of it with things like fish ladders, but they're far less effective than most people assume.
https://e360.yale.edu/features/blocked_migration_fish_ladders_on_us_dams_are_not_effective

We're nowhere close to maximum capacity on hydro. We have not even really begun to generate power from the ocean for example. Which, as you rightly point out, is as always blocked by environmentalists. Who cannot make up their minds about which is more important, global warming from gasoline, or minor environmental damage to fish.
We've dammed up pretty much everywhere we can on the rivers, and hydro isn't generally used to refer to oceans. But if you want to include it, I haven't really seen much on the topic, so I know very little about it. Though I suspect it's in the same category as geothermal -- nice in theory, but daunting in implementation.

They're inter-related (coral bleaching due to acid due to rising temperatures, for instance), but I'm more concerned about biodiversity and fish populations than I am about most of the public worries about global warming. We can deal with rising oceans, for instance, but lost species are irrecoverable, and we've seen major faunal turnovers in places like the Black Sea and Great Lakes, and the consequences are far-reaching and impossible to predict.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 08, 2022, 01:44:48 PM

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.
Hydro provides about 7% of US power, and we're basically at maximum capacity. And the demand for energy keeps rising.

And that's the ignoring the real environmental impacts of dams. They've mitigated some of it with things like fish ladders, but they're far less effective than most people assume.
https://e360.yale.edu/features/blocked_migration_fish_ladders_on_us_dams_are_not_effective

We're nowhere close to maximum capacity on hydro. We have not even really begun to generate power from the ocean for example. Which, as you rightly point out, is as always blocked by environmentalists. Who cannot make up their minds about which is more important, global warming from gasoline, or minor environmental damage to fish.
We've dammed up pretty much everywhere we can on the rivers, and hydro isn't generally used to refer to oceans. But if you want to include it, I haven't really seen much on the topic, so I know very little about it. Though I suspect it's in the same category as geothermal -- nice in theory, but daunting in implementation.

They're inter-related (coral bleaching due to acid due to rising temperatures, for instance), but I'm more concerned about biodiversity and fish populations than I am about most of the public worries about global warming. We can deal with rising oceans, for instance, but lost species are irrecoverable, and we've seen major faunal turnovers in places like the Black Sea and Great Lakes, and the consequences are far-reaching and impossible to predict.

We can do it right now. Here is an animated promo video for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcStpg3i5V8

And here is one in actual action off northern Ireland. One is powering 1500 households, from 2013.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCpBNQfpKDA

And that resulted in this one in Scotland, from last year, which is powering 2000 households:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d9zs0W9u2A

It's not a magic bullet. It won't supply electricity to the entire planet. But it's a good component of a larger system of nuclear, solar, wind, etc..
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on March 08, 2022, 02:00:20 PM

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.
Hydro provides about 7% of US power, and we're basically at maximum capacity. And the demand for energy keeps rising.

And that's the ignoring the real environmental impacts of dams. They've mitigated some of it with things like fish ladders, but they're far less effective than most people assume.
https://e360.yale.edu/features/blocked_migration_fish_ladders_on_us_dams_are_not_effective

We're nowhere close to maximum capacity on hydro. We have not even really begun to generate power from the ocean for example. Which, as you rightly point out, is as always blocked by environmentalists. Who cannot make up their minds about which is more important, global warming from gasoline, or minor environmental damage to fish.
We've dammed up pretty much everywhere we can on the rivers, and hydro isn't generally used to refer to oceans. But if you want to include it, I haven't really seen much on the topic, so I know very little about it. Though I suspect it's in the same category as geothermal -- nice in theory, but daunting in implementation.

They're inter-related (coral bleaching due to acid due to rising temperatures, for instance), but I'm more concerned about biodiversity and fish populations than I am about most of the public worries about global warming. We can deal with rising oceans, for instance, but lost species are irrecoverable, and we've seen major faunal turnovers in places like the Black Sea and Great Lakes, and the consequences are far-reaching and impossible to predict.

We can do it right now. Here is an animated promo video for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcStpg3i5V8

And here is one in actual action off northern Ireland. One is powering 1500 households, from 2013.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCpBNQfpKDA

And that resulted in this one in Scotland, from last year, which is powering 2000 households:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d9zs0W9u2A

It's not a magic bullet. It won't supply electricity to the entire planet. But it's a good component of a larger system of nuclear, solar, wind, etc..
Well, the animation is in the uncanny valley. And "Voight" sound uncomfortably close to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3znNClo_aw8

The other two are better. Though while I think it's good to explore these alternatives, that's a long way from demonstrating it'll be useful at scale.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 08, 2022, 02:20:45 PM

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.
Hydro provides about 7% of US power, and we're basically at maximum capacity. And the demand for energy keeps rising.

And that's the ignoring the real environmental impacts of dams. They've mitigated some of it with things like fish ladders, but they're far less effective than most people assume.
https://e360.yale.edu/features/blocked_migration_fish_ladders_on_us_dams_are_not_effective

We're nowhere close to maximum capacity on hydro. We have not even really begun to generate power from the ocean for example. Which, as you rightly point out, is as always blocked by environmentalists. Who cannot make up their minds about which is more important, global warming from gasoline, or minor environmental damage to fish.
We've dammed up pretty much everywhere we can on the rivers, and hydro isn't generally used to refer to oceans. But if you want to include it, I haven't really seen much on the topic, so I know very little about it. Though I suspect it's in the same category as geothermal -- nice in theory, but daunting in implementation.

They're inter-related (coral bleaching due to acid due to rising temperatures, for instance), but I'm more concerned about biodiversity and fish populations than I am about most of the public worries about global warming. We can deal with rising oceans, for instance, but lost species are irrecoverable, and we've seen major faunal turnovers in places like the Black Sea and Great Lakes, and the consequences are far-reaching and impossible to predict.

We can do it right now. Here is an animated promo video for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcStpg3i5V8

And here is one in actual action off northern Ireland. One is powering 1500 households, from 2013.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCpBNQfpKDA

And that resulted in this one in Scotland, from last year, which is powering 2000 households:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d9zs0W9u2A

It's not a magic bullet. It won't supply electricity to the entire planet. But it's a good component of a larger system of nuclear, solar, wind, etc..
Well, the animation is in the uncanny valley. And "Voight" sound uncomfortably close to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3znNClo_aw8

The other two are better. Though while I think it's good to explore these alternatives, that's a long way from demonstrating it'll be useful at scale.

Demonstrating? Dude it's the cult's dogma, how dare you demand proof it works? Or that it doesn't end up contaminating way more because of all the fossil fuel usage you just don't see and the destruction of ecosystems by minning the minerals needed for the batteries?

Solar, Eolic and Tidal aren't really an option, you can produce what you can produce, and there's no way your energy "farm" can increase it's output to match the demand during certain hours.

Our ONLY option is Nuclear and dams, because we can control the output of those, but dams can be built only in certain places AND the ecoterrorists are against both solutions.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 08, 2022, 02:40:35 PM
  If you want power from the oceans, a Hydrogen fire plant is much better at providing it.  A buddy of mine worked on one for a while (he is an plant operator/engineer and we were at the same Nuclear Prototype and ship together) and he felt it was the future....if dumbasses would get out of the way and let it be.  The process for electrolysis is much cheaper than it once was and makes hydrogen fire on par with natural gas when it is at its cheapest.  That and Nuclear power are far better options than Hydro.  I think Solar will keep getting better and have a future, but Nuclear as a place holder till that happens (and in the meantime hydrogen fire may well be able to replace Nuclear). 

   The buddy I mentioned used to work in Nuclear plants, but the USA has been actively doing all it can to discourage the industry (while providing no realistic alternative) so he went to the Hydro plant and now works as an engineer making cars in a totally unrelated field.   So it is what it is.  Things that are not really viable will likely continue to be pushed while using things that are not as clean or efficient as Nuclear or Hydro fire (natural gas) to fill in the gap.  Makes no sense.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on March 08, 2022, 04:58:24 PM
But sure, lets condemen most of the world's population to missery because someday some Russian troops might shell a nuclear plant.

Someday?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on March 08, 2022, 05:28:09 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

Me: I have a hybrid electric car with an upcoming solar panels and battery for power storage. If I end up being the guy with power when others don't it's gonna be funny.
Him: But where does the electricity come from?
You: The electricity fairy of course.

So, did you and him lie, or are you literally not able to read what was a couple simple sentences?

It's not like I was advocating for anyone else to get an electric car and solar and a battery. I literally just said if power was lost and I happened to be the guy still able to drive I'd laugh. And you guys lost your shit and started ranting and patting each others backs about complete nonsense nobody had said or implied.

IF/WHEN you manage to have your electric car charged ALWAYS only with solar we can talk. And this means all the process IS powered only by solar, meaning the minning, transportation, processing of materials, manufacturing, transportation (of the finished product).

Pro tip that's also a pipe dream. At best you're moving the contamination to where you can't see it.

WTF are you still ranting about. OK, am now left with only one conclusion: You're a fucking idiot. Like actually not bright enough to comprehend the difference between broader advocacy and an off-hand personal joke.

There is no dream here to be a pipe dream. I am not moving anything, or advocating anything. I didn't make any comment about the environment, or mining, or anything. I didn't say or imply I am morally superior in any way about anything. I am however saying you're a fucking idiot for your inability to see what was in front of you in this thread.

Here I will say it even plainer for you: If I end up to be the schmuck left still able to drive after the catastrophe that I am saying won't happen, I am going to laugh at you guys saying it will happen who don't have a way to drive. There, easy enough for you to digest now? Do you see me advocating for anything there?
It's not that Geeky is a fucking idiot. He's just impaired when it comes to picking up on off-hand jokes and subtlety of any kind. He's said so himself on a few occasions, but it sometimes bears repeating.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 08, 2022, 05:38:36 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

Me: I have a hybrid electric car with an upcoming solar panels and battery for power storage. If I end up being the guy with power when others don't it's gonna be funny.
Him: But where does the electricity come from?
You: The electricity fairy of course.

So, did you and him lie, or are you literally not able to read what was a couple simple sentences?

It's not like I was advocating for anyone else to get an electric car and solar and a battery. I literally just said if power was lost and I happened to be the guy still able to drive I'd laugh. And you guys lost your shit and started ranting and patting each others backs about complete nonsense nobody had said or implied.

IF/WHEN you manage to have your electric car charged ALWAYS only with solar we can talk. And this means all the process IS powered only by solar, meaning the minning, transportation, processing of materials, manufacturing, transportation (of the finished product).

Pro tip that's also a pipe dream. At best you're moving the contamination to where you can't see it.

WTF are you still ranting about. OK, am now left with only one conclusion: You're a fucking idiot. Like actually not bright enough to comprehend the difference between broader advocacy and an off-hand personal joke.

There is no dream here to be a pipe dream. I am not moving anything, or advocating anything. I didn't make any comment about the environment, or mining, or anything. I didn't say or imply I am morally superior in any way about anything. I am however saying you're a fucking idiot for your inability to see what was in front of you in this thread.

Here I will say it even plainer for you: If I end up to be the schmuck left still able to drive after the catastrophe that I am saying won't happen, I am going to laugh at you guys saying it will happen who don't have a way to drive. There, easy enough for you to digest now? Do you see me advocating for anything there?
It's not that Geeky is a fucking idiot. He's just impaired when it comes to picking up on off-hand jokes and subtlety of any kind. He's said so himself on a few occasions, but it sometimes bears repeating.

^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho
, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

I'm an aspie, but me thinks the one impaired to pick up on off-hand jokes (even when it's there in plain sight) is Mistwell, and maybe you too since you also didn't see why Mistwell started reeeeeeeeing.

Also: Mistwell? Care to point EXACTLY where do I say ANY catastrophe IS going to happen you fucking imbecile?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 08, 2022, 06:46:12 PM

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.
Hydro provides about 7% of US power, and we're basically at maximum capacity. And the demand for energy keeps rising.

And that's the ignoring the real environmental impacts of dams. They've mitigated some of it with things like fish ladders, but they're far less effective than most people assume.
https://e360.yale.edu/features/blocked_migration_fish_ladders_on_us_dams_are_not_effective

We're nowhere close to maximum capacity on hydro. We have not even really begun to generate power from the ocean for example. Which, as you rightly point out, is as always blocked by environmentalists. Who cannot make up their minds about which is more important, global warming from gasoline, or minor environmental damage to fish.
We've dammed up pretty much everywhere we can on the rivers, and hydro isn't generally used to refer to oceans. But if you want to include it, I haven't really seen much on the topic, so I know very little about it. Though I suspect it's in the same category as geothermal -- nice in theory, but daunting in implementation.

They're inter-related (coral bleaching due to acid due to rising temperatures, for instance), but I'm more concerned about biodiversity and fish populations than I am about most of the public worries about global warming. We can deal with rising oceans, for instance, but lost species are irrecoverable, and we've seen major faunal turnovers in places like the Black Sea and Great Lakes, and the consequences are far-reaching and impossible to predict.

We can do it right now. Here is an animated promo video for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcStpg3i5V8

And here is one in actual action off northern Ireland. One is powering 1500 households, from 2013.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCpBNQfpKDA

And that resulted in this one in Scotland, from last year, which is powering 2000 households:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d9zs0W9u2A

It's not a magic bullet. It won't supply electricity to the entire planet. But it's a good component of a larger system of nuclear, solar, wind, etc..
Well, the animation is in the uncanny valley. And "Voight" sound uncomfortably close to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3znNClo_aw8

The other two are better. Though while I think it's good to explore these alternatives, that's a long way from demonstrating it'll be useful at scale.

Demonstrating? Dude it's the cult's dogma, how dare you demand proof it works?

The second and third videos are of the actual thing working. I demonstrated it, in the very post you're responding to. There is no dogma or cult here, this is a real thing in actual operation.

Quote
Or that it doesn't end up contaminating way more because of all the fossil fuel usage you just don't see and the destruction of ecosystems by minning the minerals needed for the batteries?

Not sure this one involves batteries. It operates 24/7/365, generating electricity directly from tides, pumping it right to the shore. Do you have any evidence at all it harms the ecosystem more or the same as oil and gas?

Quote
Solar, Eolic and Tidal aren't really an option, you can produce what you can produce, and there's no way your energy "farm" can increase it's output to match the demand during certain hours.

You think tide generated electricity depends on the time of day? Or you think they cannot lower more arms based on demand, and raise those arms when demand decreases?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 08, 2022, 06:48:37 PM
  If you want power from the oceans, a Hydrogen fire plant is much better at providing it.  A buddy of mine worked on one for a while (he is an plant operator/engineer and we were at the same Nuclear Prototype and ship together) and he felt it was the future....if dumbasses would get out of the way and let it be.  The process for electrolysis is much cheaper than it once was and makes hydrogen fire on par with natural gas when it is at its cheapest.  That and Nuclear power are far better options than Hydro.  I think Solar will keep getting better and have a future, but Nuclear as a place holder till that happens (and in the meantime hydrogen fire may well be able to replace Nuclear). 

   The buddy I mentioned used to work in Nuclear plants, but the USA has been actively doing all it can to discourage the industry (while providing no realistic alternative) so he went to the Hydro plant and now works as an engineer making cars in a totally unrelated field.   So it is what it is.  Things that are not really viable will likely continue to be pushed while using things that are not as clean or efficient as Nuclear or Hydro fire (natural gas) to fill in the gap.  Makes no sense.

And now I need to go down the rabbit hole of Googling Hydrogen fire plants.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 08, 2022, 06:50:17 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

Me: I have a hybrid electric car with an upcoming solar panels and battery for power storage. If I end up being the guy with power when others don't it's gonna be funny.
Him: But where does the electricity come from?
You: The electricity fairy of course.

So, did you and him lie, or are you literally not able to read what was a couple simple sentences?

It's not like I was advocating for anyone else to get an electric car and solar and a battery. I literally just said if power was lost and I happened to be the guy still able to drive I'd laugh. And you guys lost your shit and started ranting and patting each others backs about complete nonsense nobody had said or implied.

IF/WHEN you manage to have your electric car charged ALWAYS only with solar we can talk. And this means all the process IS powered only by solar, meaning the minning, transportation, processing of materials, manufacturing, transportation (of the finished product).

Pro tip that's also a pipe dream. At best you're moving the contamination to where you can't see it.

WTF are you still ranting about. OK, am now left with only one conclusion: You're a fucking idiot. Like actually not bright enough to comprehend the difference between broader advocacy and an off-hand personal joke.

There is no dream here to be a pipe dream. I am not moving anything, or advocating anything. I didn't make any comment about the environment, or mining, or anything. I didn't say or imply I am morally superior in any way about anything. I am however saying you're a fucking idiot for your inability to see what was in front of you in this thread.

Here I will say it even plainer for you: If I end up to be the schmuck left still able to drive after the catastrophe that I am saying won't happen, I am going to laugh at you guys saying it will happen who don't have a way to drive. There, easy enough for you to digest now? Do you see me advocating for anything there?
It's not that Geeky is a fucking idiot. He's just impaired when it comes to picking up on off-hand jokes and subtlety of any kind. He's said so himself on a few occasions, but it sometimes bears repeating.

I must have missed that. Well then, that's on me. Sorry about that Geeky. I didn't realize that was an issue. I shouldn't have said or implied you were dumb for not catching something i suggested but failed to say directly.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 08, 2022, 06:52:30 PM
  If you want power from the oceans, a Hydrogen fire plant is much better at providing it.  A buddy of mine worked on one for a while (he is an plant operator/engineer and we were at the same Nuclear Prototype and ship together) and he felt it was the future....if dumbasses would get out of the way and let it be.  The process for electrolysis is much cheaper than it once was and makes hydrogen fire on par with natural gas when it is at its cheapest.  That and Nuclear power are far better options than Hydro.  I think Solar will keep getting better and have a future, but Nuclear as a place holder till that happens (and in the meantime hydrogen fire may well be able to replace Nuclear). 

   The buddy I mentioned used to work in Nuclear plants, but the USA has been actively doing all it can to discourage the industry (while providing no realistic alternative) so he went to the Hydro plant and now works as an engineer making cars in a totally unrelated field.   So it is what it is.  Things that are not really viable will likely continue to be pushed while using things that are not as clean or efficient as Nuclear or Hydro fire (natural gas) to fill in the gap.  Makes no sense.

And now I need to go down the rabbit hole of Googling Hydrogen fire plants.

  Its simply using hydrogen instead of other fuels to burn.  The thing is electrolysis is MUCH cheaper to do on a large scale now, allowing for large scale production of hydrogen gas to burn cheaply, and given what the byproduct is...well its the best I think humanity is going to develop for large scale needs in the next 30-40 years maybe longer.  BUT given the source of the Hydrogen can be processed on the site, and the source of hydrogen is really easy to come by....I think there are lot$ of reason$ not to pu$h it$ development more. 

  The tide thing makes me think of "Fluid Karma" from the nutty movie Southland Tales.   At least the real life one can not have the same sort of "side effects" the one in the movie did.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 08, 2022, 06:54:06 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

Me: I have a hybrid electric car with an upcoming solar panels and battery for power storage. If I end up being the guy with power when others don't it's gonna be funny.
Him: But where does the electricity come from?
You: The electricity fairy of course.

So, did you and him lie, or are you literally not able to read what was a couple simple sentences?

It's not like I was advocating for anyone else to get an electric car and solar and a battery. I literally just said if power was lost and I happened to be the guy still able to drive I'd laugh. And you guys lost your shit and started ranting and patting each others backs about complete nonsense nobody had said or implied.

IF/WHEN you manage to have your electric car charged ALWAYS only with solar we can talk. And this means all the process IS powered only by solar, meaning the minning, transportation, processing of materials, manufacturing, transportation (of the finished product).

Pro tip that's also a pipe dream. At best you're moving the contamination to where you can't see it.

WTF are you still ranting about. OK, am now left with only one conclusion: You're a fucking idiot. Like actually not bright enough to comprehend the difference between broader advocacy and an off-hand personal joke.

There is no dream here to be a pipe dream. I am not moving anything, or advocating anything. I didn't make any comment about the environment, or mining, or anything. I didn't say or imply I am morally superior in any way about anything. I am however saying you're a fucking idiot for your inability to see what was in front of you in this thread.

Here I will say it even plainer for you: If I end up to be the schmuck left still able to drive after the catastrophe that I am saying won't happen, I am going to laugh at you guys saying it will happen who don't have a way to drive. There, easy enough for you to digest now? Do you see me advocating for anything there?
It's not that Geeky is a fucking idiot. He's just impaired when it comes to picking up on off-hand jokes and subtlety of any kind. He's said so himself on a few occasions, but it sometimes bears repeating.

^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The electricity fairy off course!

Seriously tho
, in most of the world? From burning fossil fuels. Because Solar & Wind are just pipe dreams and the ecoterrorists managed to stop/decomision nuclear.

I'm an aspie, but me thinks the one impaired to pick up on off-hand jokes (even when it's there in plain sight) is Mistwell, and maybe you too since you also didn't see why Mistwell started reeeeeeeeing.

Also: Mistwell? Care to point EXACTLY where do I say ANY catastrophe IS going to happen you fucking imbecile?

1. I am not passionate about this issue. No reeeing from me. The hybrid car and solar/battery are all economic issues for me. I live in California and the numbers are working out that this path is cheaper for me in the long term. That's it. Not advocating it's for everyone, because it's not.
2. You didn't say a catastrophe IS going to happen but TWO OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD DID and that was the post you were responding to, where I was responding to one of them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 08, 2022, 08:49:41 PM

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.
Hydro provides about 7% of US power, and we're basically at maximum capacity. And the demand for energy keeps rising.

And that's the ignoring the real environmental impacts of dams. They've mitigated some of it with things like fish ladders, but they're far less effective than most people assume.
https://e360.yale.edu/features/blocked_migration_fish_ladders_on_us_dams_are_not_effective

We're nowhere close to maximum capacity on hydro. We have not even really begun to generate power from the ocean for example. Which, as you rightly point out, is as always blocked by environmentalists. Who cannot make up their minds about which is more important, global warming from gasoline, or minor environmental damage to fish.
We've dammed up pretty much everywhere we can on the rivers, and hydro isn't generally used to refer to oceans. But if you want to include it, I haven't really seen much on the topic, so I know very little about it. Though I suspect it's in the same category as geothermal -- nice in theory, but daunting in implementation.

They're inter-related (coral bleaching due to acid due to rising temperatures, for instance), but I'm more concerned about biodiversity and fish populations than I am about most of the public worries about global warming. We can deal with rising oceans, for instance, but lost species are irrecoverable, and we've seen major faunal turnovers in places like the Black Sea and Great Lakes, and the consequences are far-reaching and impossible to predict.

We can do it right now. Here is an animated promo video for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcStpg3i5V8

And here is one in actual action off northern Ireland. One is powering 1500 households, from 2013.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCpBNQfpKDA

And that resulted in this one in Scotland, from last year, which is powering 2000 households:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d9zs0W9u2A

It's not a magic bullet. It won't supply electricity to the entire planet. But it's a good component of a larger system of nuclear, solar, wind, etc..
Well, the animation is in the uncanny valley. And "Voight" sound uncomfortably close to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3znNClo_aw8

The other two are better. Though while I think it's good to explore these alternatives, that's a long way from demonstrating it'll be useful at scale.

Demonstrating? Dude it's the cult's dogma, how dare you demand proof it works?

The second and third videos are of the actual thing working. I demonstrated it, in the very post you're responding to. There is no dogma or cult here, this is a real thing in actual operation.

Stirling engines ALSO work, doesn't mean they are a suitable replacement to generate electricity on scale.

Quote
Quote
Or that it doesn't end up contaminating way more because of all the fossil fuel usage you just don't see and the destruction of ecosystems by minning the minerals needed for the batteries?

Not sure this one involves batteries. It operates 24/7/365, generating electricity directly from tides, pumping it right to the shore. Do you have any evidence at all it harms the ecosystem more or the same as oil and gas?

And it generates EXACTLY the same ammount of energy at all times of day in whatever season no matter the climate conditions...

Quote
Quote
Solar, Eolic and Tidal aren't really an option, you can produce what you can produce, and there's no way your energy "farm" can increase it's output to match the demand during certain hours.

You think tide generated electricity depends on the time of day? Or you think they cannot lower more arms based on demand, and raise those arms when demand decreases?

Does the tide change during the day? YES

Does the tide change depending on the seasson of the year? YES

Would massive tidal farms disrupt ocean life? Probably.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 08, 2022, 08:51:53 PM
  If you want power from the oceans, a Hydrogen fire plant is much better at providing it.  A buddy of mine worked on one for a while (he is an plant operator/engineer and we were at the same Nuclear Prototype and ship together) and he felt it was the future....if dumbasses would get out of the way and let it be.  The process for electrolysis is much cheaper than it once was and makes hydrogen fire on par with natural gas when it is at its cheapest.  That and Nuclear power are far better options than Hydro.  I think Solar will keep getting better and have a future, but Nuclear as a place holder till that happens (and in the meantime hydrogen fire may well be able to replace Nuclear). 

   The buddy I mentioned used to work in Nuclear plants, but the USA has been actively doing all it can to discourage the industry (while providing no realistic alternative) so he went to the Hydro plant and now works as an engineer making cars in a totally unrelated field.   So it is what it is.  Things that are not really viable will likely continue to be pushed while using things that are not as clean or efficient as Nuclear or Hydro fire (natural gas) to fill in the gap.  Makes no sense.

And now I need to go down the rabbit hole of Googling Hydrogen fire plants.

  Its simply using hydrogen instead of other fuels to burn.  The thing is electrolysis is MUCH cheaper to do on a large scale now, allowing for large scale production of hydrogen gas to burn cheaply, and given what the byproduct is...well its the best I think humanity is going to develop for large scale needs in the next 30-40 years maybe longer.  BUT given the source of the Hydrogen can be processed on the site, and the source of hydrogen is really easy to come by....I think there are lot$ of reason$ not to pu$h it$ development more. 

  The tide thing makes me think of "Fluid Karma" from the nutty movie Southland Tales.   At least the real life one can not have the same sort of "side effects" the one in the movie did.

And Hydrogen is one of the very few things we know with a higher energy density than gasoline.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on March 08, 2022, 09:54:18 PM
1. I am not passionate about this issue. No reeeing from me. The hybrid car and solar/battery are all economic issues for me. I live in California and the numbers are working out that this path is cheaper for me in the long term. That's it. Not advocating it's for everyone, because it's not.
What's your experience with the vendors selling the solar panels? I recently looked into them, and every vendor we talked to seemed to be all sales, and no substance. They couldn't answer even the most basic question about things like lifetime costs. I have a lot of experience dealing with vendors, and these were some of the worst I've ever dealt with. I'm curious if this a typical experience.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on March 08, 2022, 11:36:31 PM
1. I am not passionate about this issue. No reeeing from me. The hybrid car and solar/battery are all economic issues for me. I live in California and the numbers are working out that this path is cheaper for me in the long term. That's it. Not advocating it's for everyone, because it's not.
What's your experience with the vendors selling the solar panels? I recently looked into them, and every vendor we talked to seemed to be all sales, and no substance. They couldn't answer even the most basic question about things like lifetime costs. I have a lot of experience dealing with vendors, and these were some of the worst I've ever dealt with. I'm curious if this a typical experience.
That's typical of the ones in central Florida.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on March 09, 2022, 12:52:37 AM
And Hydrogen is one of the very few things we know with a higher energy density than gasoline.

If we can work out an economic and practical way not only to store it safely in the volumes required but to transfer it fast enough to meet current expectations for refuelling convenience. Sufficiently high-pressure hydrogen tanks are heavy. (Even something as apparently minor as increasing refuel time from five minutes to, say, fifteen minutes would hugely impact the logistics when scaled up.)

There is some promising work being done in this area with metal-organic frameworks, but there's a long way to go before hydrogen equals gasoline as a workable transport fuel. I am all for pursuing useful tech developments, I just think we must always be aware of the current limits on them, and I've seen too many epic promises from various tech startups fizzle out to be as enthusiastic as I used to be.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 09, 2022, 08:55:58 AM
And Hydrogen is one of the very few things we know with a higher energy density than gasoline.

If we can work out an economic and practical way not only to store it safely in the volumes required but to transfer it fast enough to meet current expectations for refuelling convenience. Sufficiently high-pressure hydrogen tanks are heavy. (Even something as apparently minor as increasing refuel time from five minutes to, say, fifteen minutes would hugely impact the logistics when scaled up.)

There is some promising work being done in this area with metal-organic frameworks, but there's a long way to go before hydrogen equals gasoline as a workable transport fuel. I am all for pursuing useful tech developments, I just think we must always be aware of the current limits on them, and I've seen too many epic promises from various tech startups fizzle out to be as enthusiastic as I used to be.

  I do not know that hydrogen is going to be a go to for something like a car.  For power plants though, it is all go from what I know about it (and most of what I know came from talking to my pal who worked on design an operation of the one plant in the USA) and he is not the sort to be overly optimistic.   He felt it was the future IF they could clear a few hurdles that seemed to largely be both fossil fuels lobbies and over regulation from people who ducked every science and math class they could to get a degree.   Transport of hydrogen is an issue, but plants would be capable of synthesizing hydrogen on site, so transport would be a non issue.    IMO the way Hydrogen becomes a transport fuel is in the sense it becomes a cheap, efficient means of producing electricity and powering up electric vehicles. 

  I know no way I am going to drive a hydrogen fueled vehicle.  As a fuel in a shielded power plant its great, too rich in a car and the smallest leak ends badly.  Use a mixture that is much lower in hydrogen, and you end up with a similar level of air pollution as gasoline. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on March 09, 2022, 12:28:01 PM
^ and where does the electric come from to power said vehicle?

The solar power and batteries I mentioned when I said it?
You’re getting all of your power via solar to power your needs for said vehicle, as in 100%?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dropbear on March 09, 2022, 01:12:46 PM
What's your experience with the vendors selling the solar panels? I recently looked into them, and every vendor we talked to seemed to be all sales, and no substance. They couldn't answer even the most basic question about things like lifetime costs. I have a lot of experience dealing with vendors, and these were some of the worst I've ever dealt with. I'm curious if this a typical experience.

From personal experience, I cannot recommend Vivint’s Solar endeavors. It’s Texas Solar where I’m located.

So yeah. Don’t use Texas Solar or whatever subsidiary Vivint uses in your area.

Mind you, the security system Vivint installed is amazing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 09, 2022, 03:21:28 PM

Here in the Pacific Northwest, almost half our power comes from hydro.
Hydro provides about 7% of US power, and we're basically at maximum capacity. And the demand for energy keeps rising.

And that's the ignoring the real environmental impacts of dams. They've mitigated some of it with things like fish ladders, but they're far less effective than most people assume.
https://e360.yale.edu/features/blocked_migration_fish_ladders_on_us_dams_are_not_effective

We're nowhere close to maximum capacity on hydro. We have not even really begun to generate power from the ocean for example. Which, as you rightly point out, is as always blocked by environmentalists. Who cannot make up their minds about which is more important, global warming from gasoline, or minor environmental damage to fish.
We've dammed up pretty much everywhere we can on the rivers, and hydro isn't generally used to refer to oceans. But if you want to include it, I haven't really seen much on the topic, so I know very little about it. Though I suspect it's in the same category as geothermal -- nice in theory, but daunting in implementation.

They're inter-related (coral bleaching due to acid due to rising temperatures, for instance), but I'm more concerned about biodiversity and fish populations than I am about most of the public worries about global warming. We can deal with rising oceans, for instance, but lost species are irrecoverable, and we've seen major faunal turnovers in places like the Black Sea and Great Lakes, and the consequences are far-reaching and impossible to predict.

We can do it right now. Here is an animated promo video for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcStpg3i5V8

And here is one in actual action off northern Ireland. One is powering 1500 households, from 2013.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCpBNQfpKDA

And that resulted in this one in Scotland, from last year, which is powering 2000 households:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d9zs0W9u2A

It's not a magic bullet. It won't supply electricity to the entire planet. But it's a good component of a larger system of nuclear, solar, wind, etc..
Well, the animation is in the uncanny valley. And "Voight" sound uncomfortably close to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3znNClo_aw8

The other two are better. Though while I think it's good to explore these alternatives, that's a long way from demonstrating it'll be useful at scale.

Demonstrating? Dude it's the cult's dogma, how dare you demand proof it works?

The second and third videos are of the actual thing working. I demonstrated it, in the very post you're responding to. There is no dogma or cult here, this is a real thing in actual operation.

Stirling engines ALSO work, doesn't mean they are a suitable replacement to generate electricity on scale.

Quote
Quote
Or that it doesn't end up contaminating way more because of all the fossil fuel usage you just don't see and the destruction of ecosystems by minning the minerals needed for the batteries?

Not sure this one involves batteries. It operates 24/7/365, generating electricity directly from tides, pumping it right to the shore. Do you have any evidence at all it harms the ecosystem more or the same as oil and gas?

And it generates EXACTLY the same ammount of energy at all times of day in whatever season no matter the climate conditions...

Quote
Quote
Solar, Eolic and Tidal aren't really an option, you can produce what you can produce, and there's no way your energy "farm" can increase it's output to match the demand during certain hours.

You think tide generated electricity depends on the time of day? Or you think they cannot lower more arms based on demand, and raise those arms when demand decreases?

Does the tide change during the day? YES

Does the tide change depending on the seasson of the year? YES

Would massive tidal farms disrupt ocean life? Probably.

Just a heads up, the videos I posted are not long and are pretty good. They explain how they work with the tides changing. Worth checking out.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 10, 2022, 08:23:58 AM
More fish.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/neetzsche-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-0.894811/

Wow, God forbid that someone should object to being fucked over again, after two years of being fucked over, thanks to a war possibly provoked by the foreign-policy incompetence of retards in the U.S. and Europe.

So brave and stunning. The best part are the posts saying 'Oh, well, but we need to intervene in THIS war for sure!!'
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on March 11, 2022, 08:59:21 PM
More fish.

...

Wow, God forbid that someone should object to being fucked over again, after two years of being fucked over, thanks to a war possibly provoked by the foreign-policy incompetence of retards in the U.S. and Europe.

So brave and stunning. The best part are the posts saying 'Oh, well, but we need to intervene in THIS war for sure!!'
Joined Wednesday, banned Thursday. That's some decent turnaround.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Warboss Squee on March 16, 2022, 12:24:11 AM
I guess some things never change.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 16, 2022, 08:02:24 AM
Unsurprising, but amusing.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/kinetic-energy-weapon-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning.895019/

Once again, Q99 can't be arsed to provide the reason for the warning in Infractions (you have to dig into the thread, in which they state it's for off topic posting).

Which it probably was (KEW's post was regarding the missile strike in Erbil, Iraq), but trying to get some consistency out of these morons is like squeezing blood from a stone.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 16, 2022, 11:22:20 AM
Another from the Trouble Tickets.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/guidance-request-is-the-phrase-counting-coup-okay-to-use.894783/#post-24285736

Good grief. I wonder if these perennial wokescolds will come to a point where nobody can talk at all for fear of offending some protected class.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 16, 2022, 10:52:29 PM
Another from the Trouble Tickets.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/guidance-request-is-the-phrase-counting-coup-okay-to-use.894783/#post-24285736

Good grief. I wonder if these perennial wokescolds will come to a point where nobody can talk at all for fear of offending some protected class.

Pffft. I knew where Counting Coup came from, and I use it in casual conversation because I don't believe Native Americans are made out of porcelain.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on March 16, 2022, 11:33:20 PM
iIf it's more honorable to score a touch on the enemy and get away, Is the rpg.net equivalent saying something daring and not getting a warning?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 17, 2022, 04:03:56 PM
Wham bam, in the van. Related to the Barker thread.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/bigjackbrass-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-nazi-apologism.895139/

(And it may be increased because, you know. TBP.)

I would like to pull a money quote from Funkadelic's angry sniveling:

Quote
In the unlikely event Barker meant the book as a joke, it doesn't matter. One cannot be a Nazi ironically. You cannot shake hands with the devil and say you're only kidding.

So something that was written in 1991 -- over thirty years ago -- is reason to cancel him now? A work of fiction?

Are they SURE they want to go down this road? Wait, what am I saying. Of course they do. It never occurs to them that they might find themselves on the wrong end of the knife at some point.

BRB, gonna go dox Funkadelic and see if he's got any wrongthink in his closet. LOL.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 17, 2022, 04:31:10 PM
Quote from: Animal Farm Forum
In the unlikely event Barker meant the book as a joke, it doesn't matter. One cannot be a Nazi ironically. You cannot shake hands with the devil and say you're only kidding.

1. I don't know if the Tekumel guy actually wrote the book, and I haven't read the book, and so I'm going to reserve judgement until further info happens along.

2. The moderation at RPG.net are insane, but we all knew that.

3. (https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.imvdb.com/video/264923824217-mel-brooks-to-be-or-not-to-be-the-hitler-rap_music_video_ov.jpg?v=2)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 17, 2022, 08:24:18 PM
  When an educated white dude converts to Islam....well to me that should sort of remove any surprises with regard to the antisemitism. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 21, 2022, 09:59:16 AM
Barker's fantasies continue to be the gift that keeps on giving to ban happy mods on TBP.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/michael-cule-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-threadban.895170/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ahndrostalgan-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-threadban.895202/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ghosthead-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban-and-thread-ban.895260/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/pelorus-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.895231/

The one that surprises me is ahndrostalgan's -- the point he was making is how shocking it is (to a liberal point of view, mind) that such an educated man would also be such an anti-Semite. Which is of course no surprise to us (since anti-Semitism is endemic to ivory tower academics), but what amuses me is how Dawgstar immediately flies off the handle at him.

Dawgstar had a busy day in any case:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/schleiermacher-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning.895230/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wulfhelm-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-and-threadban.895258/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 10:56:27 AM
Wham bam, in the van. Related to the Barker thread.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/bigjackbrass-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-nazi-apologism.895139/

(And it may be increased because, you know. TBP.)

I would like to pull a money quote from Funkadelic's angry sniveling:

Quote
In the unlikely event Barker meant the book as a joke, it doesn't matter. One cannot be a Nazi ironically. You cannot shake hands with the devil and say you're only kidding.

So something that was written in 1991 -- over thirty years ago -- is reason to cancel him now? A work of fiction?

Are they SURE they want to go down this road? Wait, what am I saying. Of course they do. It never occurs to them that they might find themselves on the wrong end of the knife at some point.

BRB, gonna go dox Funkadelic and see if he's got any wrongthink in his closet. LOL.

  Odd the moderator also dead names Barker in those ban comments.  Pretty sure Phil was NOT his name when he wrote the nazi book, or really much of anything else for that matter.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on March 23, 2022, 10:51:31 AM
Which "Nazi book" are they talking about?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 11:13:39 AM
Which "Nazi book" are they talking about?
Probably the one that's triggering all the histrionics in the RPG forum here. People need to take a chill pill.

Also, lol: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/s-lash-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-normalizing-awful-behavior-condescending-towards-tekumel-fans.895348/

I love how pointing how life and people are complicated but there's always the chance for grace and redemption is 'condescending'. I don't know who 'Fred' is but I hope he dies of syphilis. Sheesh.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 23, 2022, 12:14:26 PM
Which "Nazi book" are they talking about?
Probably the one that's triggering all the histrionics in the RPG forum here. People need to take a chill pill.

Also, lol: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/s-lash-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-normalizing-awful-behavior-condescending-towards-tekumel-fans.895348/

I love how pointing how life and people are complicated but there's always the chance for grace and redemption is 'condescending'. I don't know who 'Fred' is but I hope he dies of syphilis. Sheesh.

   Well, he is slapping the founding fathers in there with nazis in his tirade on the matter.  That is not an accident I am sure.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 01:03:12 PM
Which "Nazi book" are they talking about?
Probably the one that's triggering all the histrionics in the RPG forum here. People need to take a chill pill.

Also, lol: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/s-lash-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-normalizing-awful-behavior-condescending-towards-tekumel-fans.895348/

I love how pointing how life and people are complicated but there's always the chance for grace and redemption is 'condescending'. I don't know who 'Fred' is but I hope he dies of syphilis. Sheesh.

   Well, he is slapping the founding fathers in there with nazis in his tirade on the matter.  That is not an accident I am sure.
As if they give a shit about that. No, I don't think that was what drove the ban.

No, it's the realization that life is terribly complicated with so many shades of gray that nailing down good and evil can be a struggle. And that good people can do bad things, and bad people can do good things, and you have to take it all into account.

This is all much too complex for the primitive proto-brains of TBP mods, and so BANHAMMER.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 23, 2022, 01:05:03 PM
Which "Nazi book" are they talking about?
Probably the one that's triggering all the histrionics in the RPG forum here. People need to take a chill pill.

Also, lol: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/s-lash-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-normalizing-awful-behavior-condescending-towards-tekumel-fans.895348/

I love how pointing how life and people are complicated but there's always the chance for grace and redemption is 'condescending'. I don't know who 'Fred' is but I hope he dies of syphilis. Sheesh.

   Well, he is slapping the founding fathers in there with nazis in his tirade on the matter.  That is not an accident I am sure.
As if they give a shit about that. No, I don't think that was what drove the ban.

No, it's the realization that life is terribly complicated with so many shades of gray that nailing down good and evil can be a struggle. And that good people can do bad things, and bad people can do good things, and you have to take it all into account.

This is all much too complex for the primitive proto-brains of TBP mods, and so BANHAMMER.

  I disagree, I think Fred VERY much wants to cancel the founding fathers as well as ban all the time.  I am referring to Fred having the tirade, not the poster.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 02:52:51 PM
Which "Nazi book" are they talking about?
Probably the one that's triggering all the histrionics in the RPG forum here. People need to take a chill pill.

Also, lol: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/s-lash-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-normalizing-awful-behavior-condescending-towards-tekumel-fans.895348/

I love how pointing how life and people are complicated but there's always the chance for grace and redemption is 'condescending'. I don't know who 'Fred' is but I hope he dies of syphilis. Sheesh.

   Well, he is slapping the founding fathers in there with nazis in his tirade on the matter.  That is not an accident I am sure.
As if they give a shit about that. No, I don't think that was what drove the ban.

No, it's the realization that life is terribly complicated with so many shades of gray that nailing down good and evil can be a struggle. And that good people can do bad things, and bad people can do good things, and you have to take it all into account.

This is all much too complex for the primitive proto-brains of TBP mods, and so BANHAMMER.

  I disagree, I think Fred VERY much wants to cancel the founding fathers as well as ban all the time.  I am referring to Fred having the tirade, not the poster.
Fair enough, I thought I'd missed something in the original post and just chalked it up to not having enough coffee.

They're all morons anyways.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 23, 2022, 04:36:57 PM
Well, I could have been clearer as to who I meant, I generally try to think of the posters as *mostly* posting and the moderators as going on nutty rants.   But you are right, there is no nuance ever, or forgiveness or well anything.  These guys might want to check on just how close they have come to being the sort of dogmatics with commandments they seem to loathe.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on March 24, 2022, 11:22:10 AM

Probably the one that's triggering all the histrionics in the RPG forum here. People need to take a chill pill.


Oh boy. I don't know the contents, but it may, perhaps, look like there is something to the use of the term "Nazi" this time:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3684902-serpent-s-walk

(https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1246648518l/3684902.jpg)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 24, 2022, 12:10:17 PM
And I'll repeat what I said in that thread, too:

Great. What do you want me to do about it? 'Cause he's dead. Shall we burn his books? Exhume him and put him on trial?

See, here's the thing: I have become extremely uncaring of the 'nazi' label because it's been flung at everyone. We've gotten to that stupid meme about how 'Everyone I Don't Like Is Hitler'. And I just don't care any more.

This is what the left has sown. They've been screaming about imaginary nazis for so long, when one that actually might -be- one pops up... and again, he's fucking dead, so your options are limited... nobody. Fucking. Cares.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on March 24, 2022, 02:26:59 PM
And I'll repeat what I said in that thread, too:

Great. What do you want me to do about it?.....

Nothing.... but knowing about it doesn't hurt.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on March 24, 2022, 02:31:31 PM
Personally, I'm actually MORE interested in reading some of his stuff now. It's just interesting to see what drives this, or where such ideas pop into some people's head. Same reason I read some of the 'Gor' books. Maybe one day I'll even get around to FATAL, but my impression is that it's unreadable.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on March 24, 2022, 06:23:42 PM
Personally, I'm actually MORE interested in reading some of his stuff now. It's just interesting to see what drives this, or where such ideas pop into some people's head.

I think Holocaust denial is a tempting belief for the same reason any fundamentally Gnostic and esoteric approach to the world is: there is a certain seductiveness to being skeptical of received knowledge, and the more widely accepted that knowledge the more seductive the appeal in thinking that one might be right where the vast majority are wrong.

Not that such skepticism is necessarily a bad thing in itself, or always wrong. I've often thought that if the Flat Earth Society has any practical value, it's not in (claimed) belief in the literal flatness of the earth, but in retaining and defending the prerogative to demand of any policy position based on "science" that that science be proven again and again whenever asked, regardless of how obvious it seems or how widely accepted. The problem with taking answers solely on authority is that once respect for the authority is lost, so is belief in the answers.

Quote
Maybe one day I'll even get around to FATAL, but my impression is that it's unreadable.

It is; it's basically what you get if you combine one enthusiastic but disorganized homebrew ruleset with substandard production values and a collection of twenty years' worth of the dumb sex jokes that even fairly level-headed groups of RPGers will crack occasionally. I sincerely recommend not wasting your time.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on March 24, 2022, 07:13:51 PM

I think Holocaust denial is a tempting belief for the same reason any fundamentally Gnostic and esoteric approach to the world is: there is a certain seductiveness to being skeptical of received knowledge, and the more widely accepted that knowledge the more seductive the appeal in thinking that one might be right where the vast majority are wrong……

Ah, so the plot of the book is about denying the holocaust? Or are you just assuming (which is of course not unreasonable of course).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on March 24, 2022, 07:59:49 PM
Not that such skepticism is necessarily a bad thing in itself, or always wrong. I've often thought that if the Flat Earth Society has any practical value, it's not in (claimed) belief in the literal flatness of the earth, but in retaining and defending the prerogative to demand of any policy position based on "science" that that science be proven again and again whenever asked, regardless of how obvious it seems or how widely accepted. The problem with taking answers solely on authority is that once respect for the authority is lost, so is belief in the answers.

I like the Physics of a Flat Earth.  Its pretty counter intuitive.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on March 24, 2022, 09:25:39 PM
Speaking of forever questioning etc: There are some questions where things seem to have stagnated into a stalemate even though it should have been settled long ago. Psychological differences between men and women for instance (those pesky hormones strike again).. No matter how good your evidence, some scholars, scientists even, will loudly argue against your stance, ad infinitum. I don’t think this is a particularly good situation.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on March 25, 2022, 02:10:54 AM
Ah, so the plot of the book is about denying the holocaust? Or are you just assuming (which is of course not unreasonable of course).

I was referring more to the highly probable conclusion that Barker was the same Philip Barker who sat on the editorial board of the Journal of Historical Review, which was a publication that supported Holocaust-denial revisionism.  I have no idea if Serpent's Walk "explains away" the Holocaust, but would be wholly unsurprised to find it so.

Quote
There are some questions where things seem to have stagnated into a stalemate even though it should have been settled long ago. ...No matter how good your evidence, some scholars, scientists even, will loudly argue against your stance, ad infinitum. I don’t think this is a particularly good situation.

It has its drawbacks, certainly -- time and effort costs, among other things -- but I think ultimately it has to be preferable to the alternative, where the error of any challenge is presumed and pre-emptively shut down rather than checked again as often as necessary.

The tragedy of the Boy Who Cried Wolf is as much a warning about the shepherds running out of patience and becoming certain there's no wolf as it is about a boy being too mischievous for anyone's good. (Or so I see it, at least.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on March 25, 2022, 11:50:50 PM
huh..."fuck Nazis"...wouldn't that just make more Nazis?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on March 26, 2022, 01:53:07 PM
Which "Nazi book" are they talking about?
Probably the one that's triggering all the histrionics in the RPG forum here. People need to take a chill pill.

Also, lol: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/s-lash-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-normalizing-awful-behavior-condescending-towards-tekumel-fans.895348/

I love how pointing how life and people are complicated but there's always the chance for grace and redemption is 'condescending'. I don't know who 'Fred' is but I hope he dies of syphilis. Sheesh.

There people would ban Jesus for the parable of the Prodigal Son. Told by Jesus two millennia ago, of course.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on March 27, 2022, 09:49:19 AM

There people would ban Jesus for the parable of the Prodigal Son. Told by Jesus two millennia ago, of course.

Not to mention the Good Samaritan 😄
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OIVB3DdRgqU
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on March 28, 2022, 08:21:38 PM
There people would ban Jesus for the parable of the Prodigal Son. Told by Jesus two millennia ago, of course.
Not to mention the Good Samaritan 😄
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OIVB3DdRgqU
Reminds me of the joke that the Satanic Panic crowd wanted to ban the Bible for including all those references to demons and the Devil in it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on March 29, 2022, 10:27:24 PM
How are things going on RPG.net? I'm asking because I'm curious about their stance on "Don't Say Gay" (ha ha, who am I kidding)
AND the whole Will Smith / Chris Rock thing  ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on March 30, 2022, 07:08:40 AM
How are things going on RPG.net? I'm asking because I'm curious about their stance on "Don't Say Gay" (ha ha, who am I kidding)
AND the whole Will Smith / Chris Rock thing  ;D
Good question.

In the last two years we’ve seen them go from constitutional scholars to infectious disease experts to foreign policy experts to military strategists.

Merely commentating on the “arts” is step down.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 30, 2022, 09:22:13 AM
How are things going on RPG.net? I'm asking because I'm curious about their stance on "Don't Say Gay" (ha ha, who am I kidding)
AND the whole Will Smith / Chris Rock thing  ;D
They're kinda salty over it, though I'm sensing some hesitancy there to talk too much.

Partly due to the incredible minefield that is Tangency Open, but I suspect nobody really wants to jump out there and declare 'It should be TOTALLY legal to discuss LGBT in explicit terms to second graders!'.

That's kind of the box the lefties are stuck in at the moment. They're making some noise, but all the law's supporters need to do is release a few videos of prancing drag queens or discussions of how 'you shouldn't talk to your parents' and everything goes right off the rails.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on March 30, 2022, 10:27:38 AM

They're kinda salty over it, though I'm sensing some hesitancy there to talk too much.

Partly due to the incredible minefield that is Tangency Open, but I suspect nobody really wants to jump out there and declare 'It should be TOTALLY legal to discuss LGBT in explicit terms to second graders!'.

That's kind of the box the lefties are stuck in at the moment. They're making some noise, but all the law's supporters need to do is release a few videos of prancing drag queens or discussions of how 'you shouldn't talk to your parents' and everything goes right off the rails.

One comment I have seen a lot in general lately (everywhere, not necessarily RPG.net) is that people are "waiting for permission" to say something, or perhaps cautiously testing the water to see what's "the appropriate response". Simply having your own opinion on something is just too risky.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 30, 2022, 11:40:25 AM
   That screeching over what is essentially an anti groomer bill is very, very telling (dont know about rpgnet, their take will surely be whatever "THE NEW THING IS") how the NPCs have taken the download without ever reading the bill (and it is as short as a bill can be).  The people who did read the bill and got that screeching started are going to be the sorts with a lot to answer for one day.  I wish them the best.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on March 30, 2022, 12:52:03 PM
They're kinda salty over it, though I'm sensing some hesitancy there to talk too much.

Partly due to the incredible minefield that is Tangency Open, but I suspect nobody really wants to jump out there and declare 'It should be TOTALLY legal to discuss LGBT in explicit terms to second graders!'.

One comment I have seen a lot in general lately (everywhere, not necessarily RPG.net) is that people are "waiting for permission" to say something, or perhaps cautiously testing the water to see what's "the appropriate response". Simply having your own opinion on something is just too risky.

I don't read RPGnet, but in my circles, everyone and their brother seems to be expressing an opinion on the Will Smith slap - both liberal and conservative. It's all anyone was talking about. I don't see any hesitancy on that. Also, the Florida law is being roundly denounced among my liberal circles, with little hesitation as far as I can tell.

But this is getting off-topic from RPGnet.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on March 30, 2022, 02:42:02 PM
   That screeching over what is essentially an anti groomer bill is very, very telling (dont know about rpgnet, their take will surely be whatever "THE NEW THING IS") how the NPCs have taken the download without ever reading the bill (and it is as short as a bill can be).

Did you see Ron Perlman’s take on it? It’s hilariously stupid and a bit disturbing at the same time.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 30, 2022, 02:45:23 PM
   That screeching over what is essentially an anti groomer bill is very, very telling (dont know about rpgnet, their take will surely be whatever "THE NEW THING IS") how the NPCs have taken the download without ever reading the bill (and it is as short as a bill can be).

Did you see Ron Perlman’s take on it? It’s hilariously stupid and a bit disturbing at the same time.
No, but Perlman's been an idiot for a while so it doesn't surprise me that he simps for groomers.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on March 30, 2022, 03:46:14 PM
No, but Perlman's been an idiot for a while so it doesn't surprise me that he simps for groomers.

This time he's being hilariously stupid, calling people nazis,  being completely misinformed, all the while telling others to get educated :D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on March 30, 2022, 03:49:51 PM
No, but Perlman's been an idiot for a while so it doesn't surprise me that he simps for groomers.

This time he's being hilariously stupid, calling people nazis,  being completely misinformed, all the while telling others to get educated :D

Thats the best part.  Telling other people to get educated so that you dont have to.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 30, 2022, 04:16:22 PM
   That screeching over what is essentially an anti groomer bill is very, very telling (dont know about rpgnet, their take will surely be whatever "THE NEW THING IS") how the NPCs have taken the download without ever reading the bill (and it is as short as a bill can be).

Did you see Ron Perlman’s take on it? It’s hilariously stupid and a bit disturbing at the same time.

  I think I saw someone posting him ranting something.  I guess I can reserve either complete idiot, or groomer as a box to check by his name. 

   Maybe some tik tok "celebrity" or other will come out with the "OK Groomer!!"  video.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Nephil on March 30, 2022, 06:54:40 PM
Actors are dancing monkeys. When they are not dancing, they can fuck off. No one sane looks to actors for intelligent political commentary, it just is not what they know anything about.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 30, 2022, 10:31:34 PM
Actors are dancing monkeys. When they are not dancing, they can fuck off. No one sane looks to actors for intelligent political commentary, it just is not what they know anything about.

They are just people. Like you. Their opinion is as valid as yours. They know as much or as little as you do.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on March 31, 2022, 01:04:26 AM
Actors are dancing monkeys. When they are not dancing, they can fuck off. No one sane looks to actors for intelligent political commentary, it just is not what they know anything about.

They are just people. Like you. Their opinion is as valid as yours. They know as much or as little as you do.

There have been a few actors who have been successful in politics, like Reagan, Schwarzenegger, Ventura, Franken. But yeah, their acting doesn't make them qualified. And like most celebrities of any sort (and most opinions on the Internet in general), as a whole they give random opinions that are no more worthwhile than any other random source.

Ron Perlman specifically implied that the Florida law violates the First Amendment, which it doesn't.

On the other hand, the law is very broadly worded to ban all discussion of LGBT people - which is pure prejudice. Hetero romance is constantly packaged for preschoolers and younger in G-rated Disney cartoons and elsewhere, but LGBT relationships are considered an adults-only topic.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 31, 2022, 02:32:03 AM
Actors are dancing monkeys. When they are not dancing, they can fuck off. No one sane looks to actors for intelligent political commentary, it just is not what they know anything about.

They are just people. Like you. Their opinion is as valid as yours. They know as much or as little as you do.

There have been a few actors who have been successful in politics, like Reagan, Schwarzenegger, Ventura, Franken. But yeah, their acting doesn't make them qualified. And like most celebrities of any sort (and most opinions on the Internet in general), as a whole they give random opinions that are no more worthwhile than any other random source.

Ron Perlman specifically implied that the Florida law violates the First Amendment, which it doesn't.

On the other hand, the law is very broadly worded to ban all discussion of LGBT people - which is pure prejudice. Hetero romance is constantly packaged for preschoolers and younger in G-rated Disney cartoons and elsewhere, but LGBT relationships are considered an adults-only topic.

This is the kind of nonsense that people who want to indoctrinate young children into their preferred ideas about sex and sexuality want you to repeat.

The bill specifies "instruction". It does not ban all discussion of LGBT people. You can say "gay" until you're hoarse. A teacher can't teach about sex or sexuality without transparency and notifying the parents.

This is going to be the hill that the extreme left ideologues die on.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on March 31, 2022, 05:10:14 AM
I'm still amazed that something as simple as...

"While my kids are still underage, it is up to me, as a parent, decide when to tackle certain topics with them and how."

...Is the subject of so much debate.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on March 31, 2022, 05:44:38 AM
I'm still amazed that something as simple as...

"While my kids are still underage, it is up to me, as a parent, decide when to tackle certain topics with them and how."

...Is the subject of so much debate.

That is only because leftist groomers want there to be debate so that the idea stays on life support.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on March 31, 2022, 06:32:33 AM
Actors are dancing monkeys. When they are not dancing, they can fuck off. No one sane looks to actors for intelligent political commentary, it just is not what they know anything about.

They are just people. Like you. Their opinion is as valid as yours. They know as much or as little as you do.
They're privileged, isolated, and live in a bubble of people who think just like them, and the influence that comes with being a star means they're surrounded by lickspittles who just nod at their most inane or idiotic statements. They're uninformed, rarely hear a contrary opinion, and are completely out of touch with regular people. Yet they have a massive platform, and a disproportionate voice.

Critical Drinker did a good piece yesterday on why movie stars so often come across as a clueless idiots:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l04RZVeJViI
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on March 31, 2022, 06:35:19 AM
I am not American, so my take is coming from the POV of a "progressive European".

As a teacher, (well, substitute teacher) it sometimes happens that we have discussions about LGBT issues.

My take is that the topic should only be discussed in a serious manner once the students have entered puberty (grade 7-9) so 13+ and up. By that point there are time devoted for it in the curriculum.

Until then, for younger students in the range of grade 1-6, the only thing I teach is that "don't use gay as a slur on otherwise in a pejorative manner" because they're still to young to know about or feel sexual attraction. Any interest in the opposite sex is purely social conditioning.

So I would lay out it like "Statistically, one of you (in this class) will be a homosexual, and one of the people on this school will be a transsexual. And until you are a teen, there is no way of really knowing. It might be you. Or maybe your best friend. So stay respectful and don't say things you might regret later."

That's it. My entire advice to pre-teens can be handled as "This doesn't concern you (yet). Wait until you're older. Until then, simply don't be a jerk"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 31, 2022, 08:04:04 AM
I am not American, so my take is coming from the POV of a "progressive European".

As a teacher, (well, substitute teacher) it sometimes happens that we have discussions about LGBT issues.

My take is that the topic should only be discussed in a serious manner once the students have entered puberty (grade 7-9) so 13+ and up. By that point there are time devoted for it in the curriculum.

Until then, for younger students in the range of grade 1-6, the only thing I teach is that "don't use gay as a slur on otherwise in a pejorative manner" because they're still to young to know about or feel sexual attraction. Any interest in the opposite sex is purely social conditioning.

So I would lay out it like "Statistically, one of you (in this class) will be a homosexual, and one of the people on this school will be a transsexual. And until you are a teen, there is no way of really knowing. It might be you. Or maybe your best friend. So stay respectful and don't say things you might regret later."

That's it. My entire advice to pre-teens can be handled as "This doesn't concern you (yet). Wait until you're older. Until then, simply don't be a jerk"
Which is, in my opinion, a pretty good way to handle it.

But the blunt fact of the matter is that the alphabet mafia fucked up bad, at least here in the States. They decided to go for an all out push that, frankly, comes off less as 'please accept us' and more 'we want to indoctrinate your children and if you don't like it FUCK YOU'.

Perhaps people forgot about the astonishing blatancy of the San Francisco Gay Men's Choir and 'we're coming for your kids'. Unfortunately, not ALL of them forgot.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 31, 2022, 11:11:07 AM
I am not American, so my take is coming from the POV of a "progressive European".

As a teacher, (well, substitute teacher) it sometimes happens that we have discussions about LGBT issues.

My take is that the topic should only be discussed in a serious manner once the students have entered puberty (grade 7-9) so 13+ and up. By that point there are time devoted for it in the curriculum.

Until then, for younger students in the range of grade 1-6, the only thing I teach is that "don't use gay as a slur on otherwise in a pejorative manner" because they're still to young to know about or feel sexual attraction. Any interest in the opposite sex is purely social conditioning.

So I would lay out it like "Statistically, one of you (in this class) will be a homosexual, and one of the people on this school will be a transsexual. And until you are a teen, there is no way of really knowing. It might be you. Or maybe your best friend. So stay respectful and don't say things you might regret later."

That's it. My entire advice to pre-teens can be handled as "This doesn't concern you (yet). Wait until you're older. Until then, simply don't be a jerk"
Which is, in my opinion, a pretty good way to handle it.

But the blunt fact of the matter is that the alphabet mafia fucked up bad, at least here in the States. They decided to go for an all out push that, frankly, comes off less as 'please accept us' and more 'we want to indoctrinate your children and if you don't like it FUCK YOU'.

Perhaps people forgot about the astonishing blatancy of the San Francisco Gay Men's Choir and 'we're coming for your kids'. Unfortunately, not ALL of them forgot.

  Given the uptick in queer identity (I am using their word to mean whatever, LGBTQIA++++) I think they are in fact coming for kids.  Just not in the pure rapey way, that uptick also leans towards the possibility this is not a "born that way" scenario as previously pushed.  Seems propaganda works.  Tolerance has been pushed towards acceptance, instead of equality, treated as special, etc.  Pretty sick of it myself, and I think this sort of shit will lead down a pretty dark road eventually for the country.  I guess the powers that be would like a 50 percent ratio on LGBTQIA++ so the plebs wont consider their hijjinks as degenerate behavior any more.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on March 31, 2022, 11:25:01 AM
Actors are dancing monkeys. When they are not dancing, they can fuck off. No one sane looks to actors for intelligent political commentary, it just is not what they know anything about.

They are just people. Like you. Their opinion is as valid as yours. They know as much or as little as you do.

I have lived in LA for a while now, and gone with my wife, who's a movie buff, to various festivals with celebrities and such. I'm inclined to agree with Mistwell on this one. They are frequently hilariously out of touch. There is a reason why many of them are Scientologists. Another thing I have noticed about LA: I have never seen a city with so many fortune-tellers and "psychics". Other cities I have lived in don't even come close. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wonder if it has something to do with the celebrity (and wannabe celebrity)  life-style here.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 31, 2022, 11:27:16 AM
  As for concern with Disney and all those G rated hetero normative cis gender romantic relationships (also known as NORMAL), fear not, as some of the execs there are going to work super dooper hard on changing all that nonsense.  https://nypost.com/2022/03/30/disney-executive-wants-more-lgbtqia-minority-character/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 31, 2022, 11:40:28 AM
 There also is no gay or straight gene, there are some genes that when found together do correlate to same sex attraction, but the degree to which seems not all that big.  It would appear the final conclusion scientists found is there is no conclusive evidence as to which has more sway over sexuality, genetics or environment.   So is it that strange that the groomers are pissed they can not push their environment onto people who prefer to not do so?    I mean if the evidence is out that genetics may not determine sexuality (at least not a single factor, and it takes several lining up to make even a variation in the odds of determining sexuality) any more than environment, it only makes sense that people with an agenda stomp the gas on doing all they can to affect the environment to get their desired outcome. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on March 31, 2022, 03:20:26 PM
The bill specifies "instruction". It does not ban all discussion of LGBT people. You can say "gay" until you're hoarse. A teacher can't teach about sex or sexuality without transparency and notifying the parents.

Discussion in class is part of instruction if it is authorized by the teacher. I'm certain that the law would indeed be invoked if, for example, kids were to be read a story with LGBT characters, like "Heather Has Two Mommies".

Do you honestly think that such story time would be allowed under the law? Or, for example, that kids could be taught about the LGBT civil rights movement without invoking the law?


My take is that the topic should only be discussed in a serious manner once the students have entered puberty (grade 7-9) so 13+ and up. By that point there are time devoted for it in the curriculum.

Until then, for younger students in the range of grade 1-6, the only thing I teach is that "don't use gay as a slur on otherwise in a pejorative manner" because they're still to young to know about or feel sexual attraction. Any interest in the opposite sex is purely social conditioning.

So I would lay out it like "Statistically, one of you (in this class) will be a homosexual, and one of the people on this school will be a transsexual. And until you are a teen, there is no way of really knowing. It might be you. Or maybe your best friend. So stay respectful and don't say things you might regret later."

That's it.

And saying that would be banned by the Florida law, since it is classroom instruction on sexual orientation or gender identity. Even if that weren't banned, the kids would likely have questions like "what does homosexual mean?" And you'd be banned from answering that.

I'm sure there exists both good and bad instruction regarding sexual orientation and gender identity in schools - the Florida law bans all of it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 31, 2022, 03:26:34 PM
Tell me, jhkim, what would constitute 'appropriate' instruction on sexual orientation and gender identity for K-3?

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 31, 2022, 04:32:56 PM
The bill specifies "instruction". It does not ban all discussion of LGBT people. You can say "gay" until you're hoarse. A teacher can't teach about sex or sexuality without transparency and notifying the parents.

Discussion in class is part of instruction if it is authorized by the teacher. I'm certain that the law would indeed be invoked if, for example, kids were to be read a story with LGBT characters, like "Heather Has Two Mommies".

Do you honestly think that such story time would be allowed under the law? Or, for example, that kids could be taught about the LGBT civil rights movement without invoking the law?


My take is that the topic should only be discussed in a serious manner once the students have entered puberty (grade 7-9) so 13+ and up. By that point there are time devoted for it in the curriculum.

Until then, for younger students in the range of grade 1-6, the only thing I teach is that "don't use gay as a slur on otherwise in a pejorative manner" because they're still to young to know about or feel sexual attraction. Any interest in the opposite sex is purely social conditioning.

So I would lay out it like "Statistically, one of you (in this class) will be a homosexual, and one of the people on this school will be a transsexual. And until you are a teen, there is no way of really knowing. It might be you. Or maybe your best friend. So stay respectful and don't say things you might regret later."

That's it.

And saying that would be banned by the Florida law, since it is classroom instruction on sexual orientation or gender identity. Even if that weren't banned, the kids would likely have questions like "what does homosexual mean?" And you'd be banned from answering that.

I'm sure there exists both good and bad instruction regarding sexual orientation and gender identity in schools - the Florida law bans all of it.

  K-3 it should all be banned.  No need reading propaganda pushing books about heather and her moms.  No need to explain statistical probabilities to 3rd graders, tell em it is not nice and its over.  So looks good from here.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 31, 2022, 04:35:05 PM
The bill specifies "instruction". It does not ban all discussion of LGBT people. You can say "gay" until you're hoarse. A teacher can't teach about sex or sexuality without transparency and notifying the parents.

Discussion in class is part of instruction if it is authorized by the teacher. I'm certain that the law would indeed be invoked if, for example, kids were to be read a story with LGBT characters, like "Heather Has Two Mommies".

I haven't read said book. It's probably fine, as long as it's age appropriate, just like the bill says. And if it's not age-appropriate, then it shouldn't be taught to young children.

Quote
Do you honestly think that such story time would be allowed under the law? Or, for example, that kids could be taught about the LGBT civil rights movement without invoking the law?

Don't conflate the two topics. Teaching about civil rights is not an issue under the bill.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on March 31, 2022, 04:53:04 PM
On the other hand, the law is very broadly worded to ban all discussion of LGBT people - which is pure prejudice. Hetero romance is constantly packaged for preschoolers and younger in G-rated Disney cartoons and elsewhere, but LGBT relationships are considered an adults-only topic.

If no one can discuss LBGT people then they will never exist.

Its only logic.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on March 31, 2022, 05:52:59 PM



My take is that the topic should only be discussed in a serious manner once the students have entered puberty (grade 7-9) so 13+ and up. By that point there are time devoted for it in the curriculum.

Until then, for younger students in the range of grade 1-6, the only thing I teach is that "don't use gay as a slur on otherwise in a pejorative manner" because they're still to young to know about or feel sexual attraction. Any interest in the opposite sex is purely social conditioning.

So I would lay out it like "Statistically, one of you (in this class) will be a homosexual, and one of the people on this school will be a transsexual. And until you are a teen, there is no way of really knowing. It might be you. Or maybe your best friend. So stay respectful and don't say things you might regret later."

That's it.

And saying that would be banned by the Florida law, since it is classroom instruction on sexual orientation or gender identity. Even if that weren't banned, the kids would likely have questions like "what does homosexual mean?" And you'd be banned from answering that.

I'm sure there exists both good and bad instruction regarding sexual orientation and gender identity in schools - the Florida law bans all of it.

You don't have to convince me to think american politics, the left and the right, is totally bonkers. I already do.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on March 31, 2022, 06:53:36 PM
It seems like there is disagreement about what the Florida law says. oggsmash holds that the law would ban reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" (and is glad of this), while Ratman_tf think it would be allowed as long as the material is age-appropriate. One can read the book here on the Internet Archive among other places (it's very quick to read as it's a children's picture book):

https://archive.org/details/heatherhastwomom00newm/

It was controversial when it was first published in 1989, and is evidently still controversial today.

In terms of legality, I would agree with oggsmash. I think that the Florida law would ban reading the book to kids. The relevant clause of the law says the following:
Quote
Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

I read this as banning all instruction on sexual orientation in grades K-3. The "or" clause is an additional restriction. And I believe reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" would be considered instruction on sexual orientation. That said, I also think that reading it is quite appropriate to kindergarten students.


Discussion in class is part of instruction if it is authorized by the teacher. I'm certain that the law would indeed be invoked if, for example, kids were to be read a story with LGBT characters, like "Heather Has Two Mommies".

I haven't read said book. It's probably fine, as long as it's age appropriate, just like the bill says. And if it's not age-appropriate, then it shouldn't be taught to young children.

Quote
Do you honestly think that such story time would be allowed under the law? Or, for example, that kids could be taught about the LGBT civil rights movement without invoking the law?

Don't conflate the two topics. Teaching about civil rights is not an issue under the bill.

I think teaching about specifically LGBT civil rights is an issue under the bill. How could one teach about Harvey Milk or Jim Obergefell or other key figures of LGBT civil rights without talking about sexual orientation?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on March 31, 2022, 07:40:57 PM
There also is no gay or straight gene, there are some genes that when found together do correlate to same sex attraction, but the degree to which seems not all that big.  It would appear the final conclusion scientists found is there is no conclusive evidence as to which has more sway over sexuality, genetics or environment.   So is it that strange that the groomers are pissed they can not push their environment onto people who prefer to not do so?    I mean if the evidence is out that genetics may not determine sexuality (at least not a single factor, and it takes several lining up to make even a variation in the odds of determining sexuality) any more than environment, it only makes sense that people with an agenda stomp the gas on doing all they can to affect the environment to get their desired outcome.

I'd say that environment plays a key part of it. The Mouse Utopia experiments actually wound up producing homosexual behavior, along with a wide swath of non-healthy behaviors which ultimately destroyed the population. It's not a long paper, and it is some very dark reading.

I view teaching children about transexuality before they're well in puberty as criminal via destructive suggestion. I have not known anyone who felt comfortable for the duration during the puberty process, so the motive in telling people about it before puberty is a suggestion intended to make political activists by encouraging children chicken out of puberty because a child who knows about transexuality is far more likely to assume something is going wrong. The entire problem is that there is a whole lot of behavioral sink in public schools, and this is a way to weaponize that behavioral sink as a political weapon.

It's generally my opinion that sex change operations should take place on consenting adults (meaning older than 18) where you have completed puberty and still think something is wrong.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on March 31, 2022, 07:59:14 PM
Actors are dancing monkeys. When they are not dancing, they can fuck off. No one sane looks to actors for intelligent political commentary, it just is not what they know anything about.

They are just people. Like you. Their opinion is as valid as yours. They know as much or as little as you do.
They're privileged, isolated, and live in a bubble of people who think just like them

Right. That's what I said. Just like the people on this message board.

Zing!

Quote
, and the influence that comes with being a star means they're surrounded by lickspittles who just nod at their most inane or idiotic statements. They're uninformed, rarely hear a contrary opinion, and are completely out of touch with regular people. Yet they have a massive platform, and a disproportionate voice.

I know several celebrities. Two top A-list. They really, genuinely are just regular people. They are not surrounded by lickspittles who just nod at their most inane or idiotic statements. They are as well informed or uninformed as anyone else I know. They hear contrary opinions all the time. They hang out with regular people.

The mythology built around celebrities which you presented however does come from a bubble of people who think just like you, who don't happen to know any people who are celebrities who they claim to know all about their lifestyles. They think all celebrities are like Gwenyth Paltrow or a Khardasian when those are the exceptions to the rule of celebrity lifestyles.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 31, 2022, 08:14:16 PM
It seems like there is disagreement about what the Florida law says.

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding of the bill since the usual suspects started calling it the "Don't say gay" bill, in an attempt to confuse the issue.

Quote
oggsmash holds that the law would ban reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" (and is glad of this), while Ratman_tf think it would be allowed as long as the material is age-appropriate. One can read the book here on the Internet Archive among other places (it's very quick to read as it's a children's picture book):

https://archive.org/details/heatherhastwomom00newm/

Restricted access. I can only see the covers.

Quote
It was controversial when it was first published in 1989, and is evidently still controversial today.

In terms of legality, I would agree with oggsmash. I think that the Florida law would ban reading the book to kids. The relevant clause of the law says the following:
Quote
Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

I read this as banning all instruction on sexual orientation in grades K-3. The "or" clause is an additional restriction. And I believe reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" would be considered instruction on sexual orientation. That said, I also think that reading it is quite appropriate to kindergarten students.


Discussion in class is part of instruction if it is authorized by the teacher. I'm certain that the law would indeed be invoked if, for example, kids were to be read a story with LGBT characters, like "Heather Has Two Mommies".

I haven't read said book. It's probably fine, as long as it's age appropriate, just like the bill says. And if it's not age-appropriate, then it shouldn't be taught to young children.

Quote
Do you honestly think that such story time would be allowed under the law? Or, for example, that kids could be taught about the LGBT civil rights movement without invoking the law?

Don't conflate the two topics. Teaching about civil rights is not an issue under the bill.

I think teaching about specifically LGBT civil rights is an issue under the bill. How could one teach about Harvey Milk or Jim Obergefell or other key figures of LGBT civil rights without talking about sexual orientation?

You can mention sexual orientation. You just can't teach about sexual orientation K-3 or 4+ without parental approval of the subject matter. It's right in the bill.
You can say "Gay". You can't teach that Gay is X or Y.* It's not hard.

The key thing is K-3, or 4+ without transparency. That's what I think has got some people pissed off about this bill. They don't want parents involved in their children's education regarding certain progressive topics. And that's a huge red flag.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2022, 08:26:52 PM
It seems like there is disagreement about what the Florida law says. oggsmash holds that the law would ban reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" (and is glad of this), while Ratman_tf think it would be allowed as long as the material is age-appropriate. One can read the book here on the Internet Archive among other places (it's very quick to read as it's a children's picture book):

https://archive.org/details/heatherhastwomom00newm/

It was controversial when it was first published in 1989, and is evidently still controversial today.

In terms of legality, I would agree with oggsmash. I think that the Florida law would ban reading the book to kids. The relevant clause of the law says the following:
Quote
Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

I read this as banning all instruction on sexual orientation in grades K-3. The "or" clause is an additional restriction. And I believe reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" would be considered instruction on sexual orientation. That said, I also think that reading it is quite appropriate to kindergarten students.


Discussion in class is part of instruction if it is authorized by the teacher. I'm certain that the law would indeed be invoked if, for example, kids were to be read a story with LGBT characters, like "Heather Has Two Mommies".

I haven't read said book. It's probably fine, as long as it's age appropriate, just like the bill says. And if it's not age-appropriate, then it shouldn't be taught to young children.

Quote
Do you honestly think that such story time would be allowed under the law? Or, for example, that kids could be taught about the LGBT civil rights movement without invoking the law?

Don't conflate the two topics. Teaching about civil rights is not an issue under the bill.

I think teaching about specifically LGBT civil rights is an issue under the bill. How could one teach about Harvey Milk or Jim Obergefell or other key figures of LGBT civil rights without talking about sexual orientation?

Do you REALLY teach about civil rights to kindergarden aged children? REALLY?

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on March 31, 2022, 10:20:55 PM
... and the influence that comes with being a star means they're surrounded by lickspittles who just nod at their most inane or idiotic statements. They're uninformed, rarely hear a contrary opinion, and are completely out of touch with regular people. Yet they have a massive platform, and a disproportionate voice.

I know several celebrities. Two top A-list. They really, genuinely are just regular people. They are not surrounded by lickspittles who just nod at their most inane or idiotic statements. They are as well informed or uninformed as anyone else I know. They hear contrary opinions all the time. They hang out with regular people.

The mythology built around celebrities which you presented however does come from a bubble of people who think just like you, who don't happen to know any people who are celebrities who they claim to know all about their lifestyles. They think all celebrities are like Gwenyth Paltrow or a Khardasian when those are the exceptions to the rule of celebrity lifestyles.
And you're taking your very narrow experience and generalizing it to claim they're all just regular folks. Except we have abundant evidence that there are an abnormal number of your "exceptions". Just look at how many come across as complete idiots, when they open their mouths. Or all the news, and Hollywood stories by them and about them, that talk about the toxic culture of narcissism and kowtowing. And it's completely ignoring their power, or how their job involves at least to some degree seeking attention, or the nature of social media, or how attention begets attention even when its not merited, or the feedback cycle it creates, or how fundamentally different your life is when you have $40 million not $40,000 or $400.

Some manage to stay humble. If you watched Drinker's video, you'd see a few exceptions highlighted. But there are lot more Platrows than you're suggesting.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on March 31, 2022, 10:46:10 PM
It seems like there is disagreement about what the Florida law says.

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding of the bill since the usual suspects started calling it the "Don't say gay" bill, in an attempt to confuse the issue.

Quote
oggsmash holds that the law would ban reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" (and is glad of this), while Ratman_tf think it would be allowed as long as the material is age-appropriate. One can read the book here on the Internet Archive among other places (it's very quick to read as it's a children's picture book):

https://archive.org/details/heatherhastwomom00newm/

Restricted access. I can only see the covers.

Quote
It was controversial when it was first published in 1989, and is evidently still controversial today.

In terms of legality, I would agree with oggsmash. I think that the Florida law would ban reading the book to kids. The relevant clause of the law says the following:
Quote
Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

I read this as banning all instruction on sexual orientation in grades K-3. The "or" clause is an additional restriction. And I believe reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" would be considered instruction on sexual orientation. That said, I also think that reading it is quite appropriate to kindergarten students.


Discussion in class is part of instruction if it is authorized by the teacher. I'm certain that the law would indeed be invoked if, for example, kids were to be read a story with LGBT characters, like "Heather Has Two Mommies".

I haven't read said book. It's probably fine, as long as it's age appropriate, just like the bill says. And if it's not age-appropriate, then it shouldn't be taught to young children.

Quote
Do you honestly think that such story time would be allowed under the law? Or, for example, that kids could be taught about the LGBT civil rights movement without invoking the law?

Don't conflate the two topics. Teaching about civil rights is not an issue under the bill.

I think teaching about specifically LGBT civil rights is an issue under the bill. How could one teach about Harvey Milk or Jim Obergefell or other key figures of LGBT civil rights without talking about sexual orientation?

You can mention sexual orientation. You just can't teach about sexual orientation K-3 or 4+ without parental approval of the subject matter. It's right in the bill.
You can say "Gay". You can't teach that Gay is X or Y.* It's not hard.

The key thing is K-3, or 4+ without transparency. That's what I think has got some people pissed off about this bill. They don't want parents involved in their children's education regarding certain progressive topics. And that's a huge red flag.
So what happens when someone does say gay and you can't offer even an objective definition?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on March 31, 2022, 11:00:21 PM
oggsmash holds that the law would ban reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" (and is glad of this), while Ratman_tf think it would be allowed as long as the material is age-appropriate. One can read the book here on the Internet Archive among other places (it's very quick to read as it's a children's picture book):

https://archive.org/details/heatherhastwomom00newm/

Restricted access. I can only see the covers.

Sorry. It's free to view with registration. I looked but I couldn't find a copy that doesn't require registration.

I think teaching about specifically LGBT civil rights is an issue under the bill. How could one teach about Harvey Milk or Jim Obergefell or other key figures of LGBT civil rights without talking about sexual orientation?

You can mention sexual orientation. You just can't teach about sexual orientation K-3 or 4+ without parental approval of the subject matter. It's right in the bill.
You can say "Gay". You can't teach that Gay is X or Y. It's not hard.

First of all, I'm not convinced that this is true. We both see the same wording, which is vague and broad. I feel that a kindergarten reading of "Heather Has Two Mommies" would likely be sued under this law, and the courts would have to determine it - and it would be a huge mess for the school system. I'm also convinced that a 2nd or 3rd grade lesson on Harvey Milk, for example, would also likely be sued using this law.

You interpret that a teacher can say "gay" but they're not allowed to define it. But kids in K-3 may not know what "gay" means - or may have major misconceptions about what it means. I can't picture teaching a 3rd grade lesson on Harvey Milk, for example, without kids knowing what "gay" means.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Melichor on March 31, 2022, 11:04:49 PM
Ron Perlman specifically implied that the Florida law violates the First Amendment, which it doesn't.

On the other hand, the law is very broadly worded to ban all discussion of LGBT people - which is pure prejudice. Hetero romance is constantly packaged for preschoolers and younger in G-rated Disney cartoons and elsewhere, but LGBT relationships are considered an adults-only topic.

Here's the text of the Bill:  https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF
Quote
Section 3: Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

Can you point out how it is "broadly worded to ban all discussion of LGBT people"?

I get that progressives don't want to yield any ground here, but...
This Bill gives parents more transparency into what is happening with their children while they are in school. As a parent and grandparent, I think this is critically important.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on March 31, 2022, 11:23:30 PM
So what happens when someone does say gay and you can't offer even an objective definition?

Teachers are not Biologists so how are they really supposed to know?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on March 31, 2022, 11:24:02 PM
Here's the text of the Bill:  https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF
Quote
Section 3: Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

Can you point out how it is "broadly worded to ban all discussion of LGBT people"?

Thanks, Melichor. I posted that same quote earlier. It bans all instruction on sexual orientation. I don't see how you can teach about LGBT people without at least defining what being gay (and other terms) mean - which would be classroom instruction on sexual orientation.

I gave two specific examples earlier -- reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" to a kindergarten class, and a 3rd grade civil rights lesson on Harvey Milk. I believe that either of these would be sued under the Florida law, and it would be up to the courts to determine if the content violated it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 01, 2022, 12:38:16 AM

You can mention sexual orientation. You just can't teach about sexual orientation K-3 or 4+ without parental approval of the subject matter. It's right in the bill.
You can say "Gay". You can't teach that Gay is X or Y.* It's not hard.

I think you're making a pretty wobbly distinction there. If a teacher says something to students, how is that not considered "teaching"? "Teaching" is just "the work of a teacher." How is "things the teacher says to the students during school in class" not "the work of a teacher?" It sure as heck would be considered work for worker's compensation laws for instance.

If a kid has two female parents and they mention it in class (and they do - kids mention their parents in class), how is the teacher not "instructing" (which is just "teaching" which is, again, just the work of a teacher) about sexual orientation to respond about it?  And if you can say "gay" how would the context not be such that you're teaching what gay is? Teachers teach through context all the time.

And more importantly, why do you think teachers won't be concerned about these kinds of issues and feel that pressure in a way which will chill their speech?

It's a pretty poorly written law. I understand what their motivations are but I don't think those motivations are well thought out in terms of the legalize they chose to use.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 01, 2022, 02:00:30 AM
It seems like there is disagreement about what the Florida law says. oggsmash holds that the law would ban reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" (and is glad of this), while Ratman_tf think it would be allowed as long as the material is age-appropriate. One can read the book here on the Internet Archive among other places (it's very quick to read as it's a children's picture book):

https://archive.org/details/heatherhastwomom00newm/

It was controversial when it was first published in 1989, and is evidently still controversial today.

In terms of legality, I would agree with oggsmash. I think that the Florida law would ban reading the book to kids. The relevant clause of the law says the following:
Quote
Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

I read this as banning all instruction on sexual orientation in grades K-3. The "or" clause is an additional restriction. And I believe reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" would be considered instruction on sexual orientation. That said, I also think that reading it is quite appropriate to kindergarten students.


Discussion in class is part of instruction if it is authorized by the teacher. I'm certain that the law would indeed be invoked if, for example, kids were to be read a story with LGBT characters, like "Heather Has Two Mommies".

I haven't read said book. It's probably fine, as long as it's age appropriate, just like the bill says. And if it's not age-appropriate, then it shouldn't be taught to young children.

Quote
Do you honestly think that such story time would be allowed under the law? Or, for example, that kids could be taught about the LGBT civil rights movement without invoking the law?

Don't conflate the two topics. Teaching about civil rights is not an issue under the bill.

I think teaching about specifically LGBT civil rights is an issue under the bill. How could one teach about Harvey Milk or Jim Obergefell or other key figures of LGBT civil rights without talking about sexual orientation?

Do you REALLY teach about civil rights to kindergarden aged children? REALLY?

It's as if people are constructing preposterous situations in order to criticize the bill.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 01, 2022, 02:04:38 AM
oggsmash holds that the law would ban reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" (and is glad of this), while Ratman_tf think it would be allowed as long as the material is age-appropriate. One can read the book here on the Internet Archive among other places (it's very quick to read as it's a children's picture book):

https://archive.org/details/heatherhastwomom00newm/

Restricted access. I can only see the covers.

Sorry. It's free to view with registration. I looked but I couldn't find a copy that doesn't require registration.

I think teaching about specifically LGBT civil rights is an issue under the bill. How could one teach about Harvey Milk or Jim Obergefell or other key figures of LGBT civil rights without talking about sexual orientation?

You can mention sexual orientation. You just can't teach about sexual orientation K-3 or 4+ without parental approval of the subject matter. It's right in the bill.
You can say "Gay". You can't teach that Gay is X or Y. It's not hard.

First of all, I'm not convinced that this is true. We both see the same wording, which is vague and broad. I feel that a kindergarten reading of "Heather Has Two Mommies" would likely be sued under this law, and the courts would have to determine it - and it would be a huge mess for the school system. I'm also convinced that a 2nd or 3rd grade lesson on Harvey Milk, for example, would also likely be sued using this law.

You interpret that a teacher can say "gay" but they're not allowed to define it. But kids in K-3 may not know what "gay" means - or may have major misconceptions about what it means. I can't picture teaching a 3rd grade lesson on Harvey Milk, for example, without kids knowing what "gay" means.

As pointed out, what 2nd-3rd grade students are going to grasp the nuances of gay civil rights? When he started to go to school, my nephew got my sister in a lot of hot water because he didn't understand about sex, and told his friends that he had had sex with his mother. When the administrators and teachers found out, you may imagine the hell she had to go through to convince people she wasn't abusing her son.

These are the people we're going to explain gay civil rights to?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 01, 2022, 02:19:40 AM

You can mention sexual orientation. You just can't teach about sexual orientation K-3 or 4+ without parental approval of the subject matter. It's right in the bill.
You can say "Gay". You can't teach that Gay is X or Y.* It's not hard.

I think you're making a pretty wobbly distinction there. If a teacher says something to students, how is that not considered "teaching"? "Teaching" is just "the work of a teacher." How is "things the teacher says to the students during school in class" not "the work of a teacher?" It sure as heck would be considered work for worker's compensation laws for instance.

Speaking of wobbly distinctions. If you're going to broaden the definition of instruction to "The work of the teacher", then part of work is taking breaks. So is going to the bathroom to take a whizz instruction?

Quote
If a kid has two female parents and they mention it in class (and they do - kids mention their parents in class), how is the teacher not "instructing" (which is just "teaching" which is, again, just the work of a teacher) about sexual orientation to respond about it?  And if you can say "gay" how would the context not be such that you're teaching what gay is? Teachers teach through context all the time.

What's to respond to? If a child mentions they have two mommies, in class, the teacher doesn't have to comment. And if any child has questions, they can be told to ask their parents.

Quote
And more importantly, why do you think teachers won't be concerned about these kinds of issues and feel that pressure in a way which will chill their speech?

Teachers should be concerned over talking about sexual orientation and gender identity to kindergardners.

Quote
It's a pretty poorly written law. I understand what their motivations are but I don't think those motivations are well thought out in terms of the legalize they chose to use.

And I disagree. We'll see what develops.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 01, 2022, 04:20:44 AM
As pointed out, what 2nd-3rd grade students are going to grasp the nuances of gay civil rights? When he started to go to school, my nephew got my sister in a lot of hot water because he didn't understand about sex, and told his friends that he had had sex with his mother. When the administrators and teachers found out, you may imagine the hell she had to go through to convince people she wasn't abusing her son.

These are the people we're going to explain gay civil rights to?

Elementary school children aren't go to understand the nuances of democracy either - does that mean they shouldn't be taught about our country's government? Just because they aren't going to grasp all the nuances of a subject doesn't mean that subject shouldn't be taught. I happen to think that civil rights should be taught. Even elementary school kids should know the basics of American history.

But civil rights was just one example. The bigger point is justifying a ban on LGBT appearing at any time. Your example of your nephew is talking about the act of sex. I wouldn't expect elementary school kids to know about the act of sex. But being gay isn't about the act of sex any more than being straight is about the act of sex. It is appropriate for kids in K-3 to know about romantic relationships, marriage, families, divorce and adoption. These things all appear in G-rated movies, and are regularly mentioned in ordinary classroom discussion.

It would cause no controversy if kids read a book about a princess who falls in love with a prince, kisses him, and marries him. But I claim the same story would be banned if it were about two princesses - and you don't seem to be arguing that point. Straight relationships are fair game to be included in K-3, but gay relationships aren't. That is clear prejudice, in my opinion.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 01, 2022, 08:07:22 AM
As pointed out, what 2nd-3rd grade students are going to grasp the nuances of gay civil rights? When he started to go to school, my nephew got my sister in a lot of hot water because he didn't understand about sex, and told his friends that he had had sex with his mother. When the administrators and teachers found out, you may imagine the hell she had to go through to convince people she wasn't abusing her son.

These are the people we're going to explain gay civil rights to?

Elementary school children aren't go to understand the nuances of democracy either - does that mean they shouldn't be taught about our country's government? Just because they aren't going to grasp all the nuances of a subject doesn't mean that subject shouldn't be taught. I happen to think that civil rights should be taught. Even elementary school kids should know the basics of American history.

But civil rights was just one example. The bigger point is justifying a ban on LGBT appearing at any time. Your example of your nephew is talking about the act of sex. I wouldn't expect elementary school kids to know about the act of sex. But being gay isn't about the act of sex any more than being straight is about the act of sex. It is appropriate for kids in K-3 to know about romantic relationships, marriage, families, divorce and adoption. These things all appear in G-rated movies, and are regularly mentioned in ordinary classroom discussion.

It would cause no controversy if kids read a book about a princess who falls in love with a prince, kisses him, and marries him. But I claim the same story would be banned if it were about two princesses - and you don't seem to be arguing that point. Straight relationships are fair game to be included in K-3, but gay relationships aren't. That is clear prejudice, in my opinion.
Are you stupid, or a closeted perv?

First, there are ways to approach this that don't involve explicit discussion of sex or gender. As kids grow up, they learn to see and understand complexity -- that's why the courses in math in high school are different from the ones taught in elementary school.

Second, it is entirely fucking inappropriate to suggest that children should be given deep instruction on sex and gender identity, while recommending (and this has been seen in materials leaked from a number of teachers and districts) that parents not be told. That is grooming 101, friend, and it will not end well.

If the left wants to die on this hill, fine. But they WILL die. There's an awful lot of parents who get feisty about their kids.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 01, 2022, 08:35:37 AM
   I can understand how it would REALLY upset some people when a behavior HEAVILY influenced by environment, may not have the fertile environment to encourage said behavior any more in every place in the country.   How sad.  k-3 there need be no discussions of homo or hetero sexual.  Write a note, send it to the parents and tell them "blah blah asked what this means".  Done.  It is a one in a thousand thing.  There is also the option that if people are harshly offended by a state's policies, they can in fact just leave.   In this case, it seems the activists are extremely triggered they will not be able to have the "proper environment" to encourage the behaviors they prefer among the normies (people who generally just slog along to get through the day, pick the kids up from school, take em to activities, feed em, put em to bed and start again in the morn and are detached from every little policy in a school) and are pretty triggered it seems the normally quiet normies are largely in agreement with the florida law.   I thought we all were for democracy?  Or are we only for democracy when it goes our way?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on April 01, 2022, 09:56:35 AM

See, this is why I support free speech so strongly.   In an echo chamber, you can just shut down discussion before you get to anything substantial.  But here you get to let the leftists talk until their stupid outs itself.

But civil rights was just one example. The bigger point is justifying a ban on LGBT appearing at any time. Your example of your nephew is talking about the act of sex. I wouldn't expect elementary school kids to know about the act of sex. But being gay isn't about the act of sex any more than being straight is about the act of sex. It is appropriate for kids in K-3 to know about romantic relationships, marriage, families, divorce and adoption. These things all appear in G-rated movies, and are regularly mentioned in ordinary classroom discussion.
Being gay isn't about the act of sex?  That's easily the most moronic thing said here in a while.  It, by definition, is about who you are sexually attracted to.  As is heterosexualality.   I can love my brother without wanting to have sex with him.  But that doesn't make me gay (or incestuous).  The very definition of gay is same-sex sexual attraction.  Just like the definition of family is based on reproduction and the raising of children.  Before we get to the leftist canard about older people marrying who can't have kids, we structure the process based around its normal usage.  We don't ban old people from marrying, but we could and it wouldn't change the purpose of the family one bit.  So, once again, the liberal world view only makes sense when you redefine words and concepts in such a way that is contrary to reality.


It would cause no controversy if kids read a book about a princess who falls in love with a prince, kisses him, and marries him. But I claim the same story would be banned if it were about two princesses - and you don't seem to be arguing that point. Straight relationships are fair game to be included in K-3, but gay relationships aren't. That is clear prejudice, in my opinion.

Yep.  It's as much prejudice as manufacturing five fingered gloves is.  Because, for 97+% of the children out there, they have one mommy.  The norm is what is taught.  And LGBTQWERTY is not the norm, either statistically or socially.  We can't teach every fringe lifestyle in school (should we also include "Heather Has Four Mommies" for the Mormon kids, too?), nor should we.

Oh, and by the way, Harvey Milk was a pedophile supporter of Jim Jones.  Anyone who teaches about him to young children should be arrested...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on April 01, 2022, 10:46:55 AM
I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 01, 2022, 10:51:51 AM
It's as if people are constructing preposterous situations in order to criticize the bill.

Groomers gotta groom....
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 01, 2022, 10:53:34 AM
I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?

Well, THAT would interfere with the state sponsored brainwashing!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 01, 2022, 12:15:11 PM
I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?

First of all, the clause in question has nothing about parental consent. Those topics are banned in school regardless of whether parents give consent or not.

If that clause were about parental permission, would that apply equally to straight sexuality? So could gay parents block any instruction on straight relationships to their kids? So, if a class includes how George Washington was married to Martha Washington, they can sue to prevent that being said? And they could prevent Snow White or Sleeping Beauty from being read?

I think no one here would support that. Because straight sexuality is discussed all the time in K-3, in fiction, history, and civics. The standard that the law encourages is that straight relationships like Snow White or George Washington's marriage are perfectly acceptable topics for young kids, but gay relationships are considered inappropriate.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on April 01, 2022, 02:42:46 PM
The standard that the law encourages is that straight relationships like Snow White or George Washington's marriage are perfectly acceptable topics for young kids, but gay relationships are considered inappropriate.
And?  What's your point?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on April 01, 2022, 02:46:51 PM
I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?

First of all, the clause in question has nothing about parental consent. Those topics are banned in school regardless of whether parents give consent or not.

If that clause were about parental permission, would that apply equally to straight sexuality? So could gay parents block any instruction on straight relationships to their kids? So, if a class includes how George Washington was married to Martha Washington, they can sue to prevent that being said? And they could prevent Snow White or Sleeping Beauty from being read?

I think no one here would support that. Because straight sexuality is discussed all the time in K-3, in fiction, history, and civics. The standard that the law encourages is that straight relationships like Snow White or George Washington's marriage are perfectly acceptable topics for young kids, but gay relationships are considered inappropriate.
Where did I say anything about parental consent? I asked about setting ground rules, and referring certain questions back to the parents. And for some reason, you completely ignored that for an unrelated rant.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on April 01, 2022, 03:06:28 PM
I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?
Can teachers similarly hand off other topics they don't feel comfortable with to the children's parents?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on April 01, 2022, 04:02:26 PM
I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?

First of all, the clause in question has nothing about parental consent. Those topics are banned in school regardless of whether parents give consent or not.

If that clause were about parental permission, would that apply equally to straight sexuality? So could gay parents block any instruction on straight relationships to their kids? So, if a class includes how George Washington was married to Martha Washington, they can sue to prevent that being said? And they could prevent Snow White or Sleeping Beauty from being read?

I think no one here would support that. Because straight sexuality is discussed all the time in K-3, in fiction, history, and civics. The standard that the law encourages is that straight relationships like Snow White or George Washington's marriage are perfectly acceptable topics for young kids, but gay relationships are considered inappropriate.
In a perfect world I would agree, but the alphabet community has been taken over by groomers. For example, the drag queen story hour has been revealed to be infested with sex offenders. Getting a bad reputation from a few bad apples is not going to help the alphabet community. Acceptance rates are decreasing for the first time in decades and this shit is the reason why.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on April 01, 2022, 04:02:43 PM
I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?
Can teachers similarly hand off other topics they don't feel comfortable with to the children's parents?

I see that you have worked with teachers in the past!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 01, 2022, 04:29:34 PM

See, this is why I support free speech so strongly.   In an echo chamber, you can just shut down discussion before you get to anything substantial.  But here you get to let the leftists talk until their stupid outs itself.

But civil rights was just one example. The bigger point is justifying a ban on LGBT appearing at any time. Your example of your nephew is talking about the act of sex. I wouldn't expect elementary school kids to know about the act of sex. But being gay isn't about the act of sex any more than being straight is about the act of sex. It is appropriate for kids in K-3 to know about romantic relationships, marriage, families, divorce and adoption. These things all appear in G-rated movies, and are regularly mentioned in ordinary classroom discussion.
Being gay isn't about the act of sex?  That's easily the most moronic thing said here in a while.  It, by definition, is about who you are sexually attracted to.  As is heterosexualality.   I can love my brother without wanting to have sex with him.  But that doesn't make me gay (or incestuous).  The very definition of gay is same-sex sexual attraction.  Just like the definition of family is based on reproduction and the raising of children.  Before we get to the leftist canard about older people marrying who can't have kids, we structure the process based around its normal usage.  We don't ban old people from marrying, but we could and it wouldn't change the purpose of the family one bit.  So, once again, the liberal world view only makes sense when you redefine words and concepts in such a way that is contrary to reality.


It would cause no controversy if kids read a book about a princess who falls in love with a prince, kisses him, and marries him. But I claim the same story would be banned if it were about two princesses - and you don't seem to be arguing that point. Straight relationships are fair game to be included in K-3, but gay relationships aren't. That is clear prejudice, in my opinion.

Yep.  It's as much prejudice as manufacturing five fingered gloves is.  Because, for 97+% of the children out there, they have one mommy.  The norm is what is taught.  And LGBTQWERTY is not the norm, either statistically or socially.  We can't teach every fringe lifestyle in school (should we also include "Heather Has Four Mommies" for the Mormon kids, too?), nor should we.

Oh, and by the way, Harvey Milk was a pedophile supporter of Jim Jones.  Anyone who teaches about him to young children should be arrested...

  People like to forget Jim Jones was an Atheist SJW.   I agree with what you are saying here, it seems people are upset that there can be no appeal to fringes, and they are afraid to say what is normal....almost like they would like to manufacture a new normal.  Now at one time I took some of these people's sentiments to want to express some form of individuality.  Given how lots of the same people up in arms were so quick to appeal to any authority in the past two years...now I am not so sure I can take all the arguments in good faith as I did before.  Now I think the push is to go from tolerance (long since achieved), to acceptance (honestly, they demand this now) to absolute celebration and a re write as to expected norms.  I have to say...No Thanks. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Jaeger on April 01, 2022, 04:42:34 PM
(https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/103/068/646/small/7e8b7f8f50f2249c.png)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on April 01, 2022, 07:11:46 PM
I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?
Can teachers similarly hand off other topics they don't feel comfortable with to the children's parents?
Assuming the topics they have a problem with aren't things like arithmetic or reading, sure
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 01, 2022, 07:17:08 PM
I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?

First of all, the clause in question has nothing about parental consent. Those topics are banned in school regardless of whether parents give consent or not.

If that clause were about parental permission, would that apply equally to straight sexuality? So could gay parents block any instruction on straight relationships to their kids? So, if a class includes how George Washington was married to Martha Washington, they can sue to prevent that being said? And they could prevent Snow White or Sleeping Beauty from being read?

I think no one here would support that. Because straight sexuality is discussed all the time in K-3, in fiction, history, and civics. The standard that the law encourages is that straight relationships like Snow White or George Washington's marriage are perfectly acceptable topics for young kids, but gay relationships are considered inappropriate.

jhkim, just stop it.

Years ago, on this very forum, these topics were discussed. The conclusion reached was that the GBLT community was accepted by the majority of society, but the fringe elements were going to end up dragging the rest down out of acceptance. People don't like paedo grooming for kids by ANY sexuality. People don't like trans athletes competing in women's sports. People don't like wedding industry small business being targetted for life destroying lawsuits over their religious beliefs. The GBLT community is about to fuck up and surrender any ground it may have gained socially because of all this. In all seriousness, by advocating for this horrendous bullshit you are hurting your own cause.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on April 01, 2022, 07:44:34 PM
I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?

First of all, the clause in question has nothing about parental consent. Those topics are banned in school regardless of whether parents give consent or not.

If that clause were about parental permission, would that apply equally to straight sexuality? So could gay parents block any instruction on straight relationships to their kids? So, if a class includes how George Washington was married to Martha Washington, they can sue to prevent that being said? And they could prevent Snow White or Sleeping Beauty from being read?

I think no one here would support that. Because straight sexuality is discussed all the time in K-3, in fiction, history, and civics. The standard that the law encourages is that straight relationships like Snow White or George Washington's marriage are perfectly acceptable topics for young kids, but gay relationships are considered inappropriate.

jhkim, just stop it.

Years ago, on this very forum, these topics were discussed. The conclusion reached was that the GBLT community was accepted by the majority of society, but the fringe elements were going to end up dragging the rest down out of acceptance. People don't like paedo grooming for kids by ANY sexuality. People don't like trans athletes competing in women's sports. People don't like wedding industry small business being targetted for life destroying lawsuits over their religious beliefs. The GBLT community is about to fuck up and surrender any ground it may have gained socially because of all this. In all seriousness, by advocating for this horrendous bullshit you are hurting your own cause.

As someone who was not here for that discussion, I want to point out the fatal flaw in that conclusion; "accepted" is undefined and ripe for equivocation in both directions. If you think that conclusion will stand the test of time, you're fooling yourself; the very nature of these discussions is a slippery slope.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 01, 2022, 09:32:33 PM
I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?

First of all, the clause in question has nothing about parental consent. Those topics are banned in school regardless of whether parents give consent or not.

If that clause were about parental permission, would that apply equally to straight sexuality? So could gay parents block any instruction on straight relationships to their kids? So, if a class includes how George Washington was married to Martha Washington, they can sue to prevent that being said? And they could prevent Snow White or Sleeping Beauty from being read?

I think no one here would support that. Because straight sexuality is discussed all the time in K-3, in fiction, history, and civics. The standard that the law encourages is that straight relationships like Snow White or George Washington's marriage are perfectly acceptable topics for young kids, but gay relationships are considered inappropriate.

jhkim, just stop it.

Years ago, on this very forum, these topics were discussed. The conclusion reached was that the GBLT community was accepted by the majority of society, but the fringe elements were going to end up dragging the rest down out of acceptance. People don't like paedo grooming for kids by ANY sexuality. People don't like trans athletes competing in women's sports. People don't like wedding industry small business being targetted for life destroying lawsuits over their religious beliefs. The GBLT community is about to fuck up and surrender any ground it may have gained socially because of all this. In all seriousness, by advocating for this horrendous bullshit you are hurting your own cause.

As someone who was not here for that discussion, I want to point out the fatal flaw in that conclusion; "accepted" is undefined and ripe for equivocation in both directions. If you think that conclusion will stand the test of time, you're fooling yourself; the very nature of these discussions is a slippery slope.

So advocating for historically offensive and alienating fringe elements of the GBLT movement is the best way to win friends and influence people? You better start studying because you have a lot to learn.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 01, 2022, 11:39:26 PM
I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?

First of all, the clause in question has nothing about parental consent. Those topics are banned in school regardless of whether parents give consent or not.

If that clause were about parental permission, would that apply equally to straight sexuality? So could gay parents block any instruction on straight relationships to their kids? So, if a class includes how George Washington was married to Martha Washington, they can sue to prevent that being said? And they could prevent Snow White or Sleeping Beauty from being read?

I think no one here would support that. Because straight sexuality is discussed all the time in K-3, in fiction, history, and civics. The standard that the law encourages is that straight relationships like Snow White or George Washington's marriage are perfectly acceptable topics for young kids, but gay relationships are considered inappropriate.

jhkim, just stop it.

Years ago, on this very forum, these topics were discussed. The conclusion reached was that the GBLT community was accepted by the majority of society, but the fringe elements were going to end up dragging the rest down out of acceptance. People don't like paedo grooming for kids by ANY sexuality. People don't like trans athletes competing in women's sports. People don't like wedding industry small business being targetted for life destroying lawsuits over their religious beliefs. The GBLT community is about to fuck up and surrender any ground it may have gained socially because of all this. In all seriousness, by advocating for this horrendous bullshit you are hurting your own cause.

As someone who was not here for that discussion, I want to point out the fatal flaw in that conclusion; "accepted" is undefined and ripe for equivocation in both directions. If you think that conclusion will stand the test of time, you're fooling yourself; the very nature of these discussions is a slippery slope.

So advocating for historically offensive and alienating fringe elements of the GBLT movement is the best way to win friends and influence people? You better start studying because you have a lot to learn.

As someone who used to laugh at the slippery slope "falacy", who has gay and lesbian family memebers and who would hate to see the tolerance achieved in the west set back 20+ years due to the lefts love of the anormal and their push for normalizing pedophilia and grooming children both into transitioning and into their cult I'm angry as all fuck against these idiots and the cowards in the GLB "T" communities for not speaking against this.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 02, 2022, 02:42:24 AM
The conclusion reached was that the GBLT community was accepted by the majority of society, but the fringe elements were going to end up dragging the rest down out of acceptance. People don't like paedo grooming for kids by ANY sexuality. People don't like trans athletes competing in women's sports. People don't like wedding industry small business being targetted for life destroying lawsuits over their religious beliefs. The GBLT community is about to fuck up and surrender any ground it may have gained socially because of all this. In all seriousness, by advocating for this horrendous bullshit you are hurting your own cause.

As someone who was not here for that discussion, I want to point out the fatal flaw in that conclusion; "accepted" is undefined and ripe for equivocation in both directions. If you think that conclusion will stand the test of time, you're fooling yourself; the very nature of these discussions is a slippery slope.

So advocating for historically offensive and alienating fringe elements of the GBLT movement is the best way to win friends and influence people? You better start studying because you have a lot to learn.

I'm not even exactly sure what you're saying here. I take by inference that you think I'm supporting pedophilic gay people?

I'm hugely opposed to *actual* pedophiles - both gay pedophiles and straight pedophiles. However, I disagree that gay people are generally pedophiles and that young kids need to be kept safe from gay people in particular. Calling gay people pedophiles isn't some new backlash that only happened because LGBT advocates went too far in the 2020's. This is the same accusation that happened back in the 1990s when there was uproar whenever a teacher was found to be gay.

In my opinion, one of the best ways to protect kids from pedophiles is to teach kids to report pedophiles to the authorities. Child abuse can happen in a lot of places - and indeed, it happens at home just as frequently as at school, church, or other activities. Kids should be taught repeatedly in all these places that "bad touch" is wrong, and to report it.

Making it illegal to talk about gay pedophilia doesn't protect kids from it. Actual pedophiles won't stop doing it just because it's illegal, because sexual abuse of kids is already illegal. What we need are better ways to catch the perpetrators.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 02, 2022, 02:59:01 AM
The conclusion reached was that the GBLT community was accepted by the majority of society, but the fringe elements were going to end up dragging the rest down out of acceptance. People don't like paedo grooming for kids by ANY sexuality. People don't like trans athletes competing in women's sports. People don't like wedding industry small business being targetted for life destroying lawsuits over their religious beliefs. The GBLT community is about to fuck up and surrender any ground it may have gained socially because of all this. In all seriousness, by advocating for this horrendous bullshit you are hurting your own cause.

As someone who was not here for that discussion, I want to point out the fatal flaw in that conclusion; "accepted" is undefined and ripe for equivocation in both directions. If you think that conclusion will stand the test of time, you're fooling yourself; the very nature of these discussions is a slippery slope.

So advocating for historically offensive and alienating fringe elements of the GBLT movement is the best way to win friends and influence people? You better start studying because you have a lot to learn.

I'm not even exactly sure what you're saying here. I take by inference that you think I'm supporting pedophilic gay people?

I'm hugely opposed to *actual* pedophiles - both gay pedophiles and straight pedophiles. However, I disagree that gay people are generally pedophiles and that young kids need to be kept safe from gay people in particular. Calling gay people pedophiles isn't some new backlash that only happened because LGBT advocates went too far in the 2020's. This is the same accusation that happened back in the 1990s when there was uproar whenever a teacher was found to be gay.

In my opinion, one of the best ways to protect kids from pedophiles is to teach kids to report pedophiles to the authorities. Child abuse can happen in a lot of places - and indeed, it happens at home just as frequently as at school, church, or other activities. Kids should be taught repeatedly in all these places that "bad touch" is wrong, and to report it.

Making it illegal to talk about gay pedophilia doesn't protect kids from it. Actual pedophiles won't stop doing it just because it's illegal, because sexual abuse of kids is already illegal. What we need are better ways to catch the perpetrators.

No inference about it. By opposing the Florida bill in such an outrageous manner by inaccurately portraying what is in the bill itself, opponents of the bill are making it easier for pedophilic grooming (gay, straight, or vegasexual) to occur in schools AND you are setting your championed GBLT social goals back by decades. Knock it off! You aren't helping!

You are a parent, did you want people talking to your kids about sex/gender before you did?

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 02, 2022, 03:56:18 AM
By opposing the Florida bill in such an outrageous manner by inaccurately portraying what is in the bill itself, opponents of the bill are making it easier for pedophilic grooming (gay, straight, or vegasexual) to occur in schools AND you are setting your championed GBLT social goals back by decades. Knock it off! You aren't helping!

You are a parent, did you want people talking to your kids about sex/gender before you did?

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.

I suspect you mean something different by "talking about sex/gender" - I guess you're thinking something more like middle or high school sex ed, but honestly, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on April 02, 2022, 08:40:38 AM
Kids will hear it on the playground before it's ever discussed at home.

It's a moot point.

Silence always serves the predators.  Always watch who's screaming for people to be silenced.  Ignorance makes for a fertile hunting ground.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 02, 2022, 08:48:09 AM
  I missed where the school was pushing not talking about abuse or danger, or being touched inappropriately.  Which is of course the first responsibility of the parents, not the school.  Silence?  Did you guys read the bill?  You do not discuss issues AS PART OF CLASSROOM DISCUSSION around sexuality or gender to kids K-3.   This topic never came up when I was in grades K-3...did something happen  where we need to go into great detail around gay rights and butt sex to little kids now?   

   Kids will have their own discussions, especially in public school where a sizeable portion of the enrolled are little more than booger eating mouth breathers.    So what?  I am sure the Florida bill had a whole lot more to do with shit like pledging allegiance to the LGBT flag at summer camp and a number (which I also think is a tiny minority) of activists posing as teachers championing and celebrating being gay.  This is a behavior and lifestyle that is outside the norm, fringe behavior that is heavily affected by the environment of the person practicing it.  Likely strongly influenced by the persons early life.  I know the activist sorts know that.  I think that is the reason for the breathless outrage, people who can not reproduce, must recruit. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 02, 2022, 11:08:33 AM
By opposing the Florida bill in such an outrageous manner by inaccurately portraying what is in the bill itself, opponents of the bill are making it easier for pedophilic grooming (gay, straight, or vegasexual) to occur in schools AND you are setting your championed GBLT social goals back by decades. Knock it off! You aren't helping!

You are a parent, did you want people talking to your kids about sex/gender before you did?

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.

I suspect you mean something different by "talking about sex/gender" - I guess you're thinking something more like middle or high school sex ed, but honestly, I'm not sure.

OK, so if you can figure out the subject matter I'm talking about (including the grade/age range during which discussion is relevant), then you must acknowledge that most of that discussion is not relevant for children in the K-3rd grade.

And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 02, 2022, 12:00:21 PM
...
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277804491_10229202014977428_1384757309404599944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=5TWbS9K-6x4AX_D9ROr&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_ARDVnXXiuYIl1EtZJFp6PfJF6wAToZ-SS9_r62uHJcw&oe=624C968C)

Groomers leaving the profession of teaching? How terrible!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 02, 2022, 02:25:57 PM
And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

Fuck you, jeff. What I said to Dellaforno's friend is that we're a bunch of assholes here - which is exactly the same thing I say to your face. Most of us here will proudly admit to that. I didn't say anything on Facebook that I don't say here.

The only thing I said just now was that I had gay friends - so you're claiming that having gay friends is being "woke". But I know plenty of libertarian or even conservative folks who have gay friends, or are gay themselves. You can accuse me of being woke over other things, but being gay or having gay friends doesn't mean that someone is woke.

Meanwhile, you're acting as if the Florida bill prevents explicit sex ed in grades K-3, but that's not what the bill does. It allows any degree of sex ed to kids, as long as it's hetero sex. What it does is ban any discussion of gayness. And my position is there's nothing inappropriate to kids in K-3 about stuff like marriage, parents, growing up, and similar.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 02, 2022, 02:53:42 PM
And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

Fuck you, jeff. What I said to Dellaforno's friend is that we're a bunch of assholes here - which is exactly the same thing I say to your face. Most of us here will proudly admit to that. I didn't say anything on Facebook that I don't say here.

The only thing I said just now was that I had gay friends - so you're claiming that having gay friends is being "woke". But I know plenty of libertarian or even conservative folks who have gay friends, or are gay themselves. You can accuse me of being woke over other things, but being gay or having gay friends doesn't mean that someone is woke.

Bullshit.

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.


Is you using your son as a standard bearer to impress upon the reader how socially just your son has been raised by you. It is virtue signalling at its lowest and is woke as Hell.

Meanwhile, you're acting as if the Florida bill prevents explicit sex ed in grades K-3, but that's not what the bill does. It allows any degree of sex ed to kids, as long as it's hetero sex. What it does is ban any discussion of gayness. And my position is there's nothing inappropriate to kids in K-3 about stuff like marriage, parents, growing up, and similar.

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on April 02, 2022, 05:22:55 PM
I think teaching about specifically LGBT civil rights is an issue under the bill. How could one teach about Harvey Milk or Jim Obergefell or other key figures of LGBT civil rights without talking about sexual orientation?
No it's not an issue, because K-3 graders should be taught reading, writing and arithmetic.
Harvey Milk has zero historical relevance.  None whatsoever.  Zero.  Nada. 
Jim Obergefell has as much relevance as Jane Roe.  In other words perhaps legally interesting to high school or college students.
But to K-3 no freaking way.  Takes time away from REAL important  historical figures
like Christopher Columbus and George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Edison, etc.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on April 02, 2022, 06:14:28 PM

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

This is the same guy who right above said being gay has nothing to do with sex.  Why are you surprised...?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 02, 2022, 07:09:24 PM

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

This is the same guy who right above said being gay has nothing to do with sex.  Why are you surprised...?

I know. It's like trying to nail jell-o to a wall.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on April 02, 2022, 07:46:55 PM
I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?

First of all, the clause in question has nothing about parental consent. Those topics are banned in school regardless of whether parents give consent or not.

If that clause were about parental permission, would that apply equally to straight sexuality? So could gay parents block any instruction on straight relationships to their kids? So, if a class includes how George Washington was married to Martha Washington, they can sue to prevent that being said? And they could prevent Snow White or Sleeping Beauty from being read?

I think no one here would support that. Because straight sexuality is discussed all the time in K-3, in fiction, history, and civics. The standard that the law encourages is that straight relationships like Snow White or George Washington's marriage are perfectly acceptable topics for young kids, but gay relationships are considered inappropriate.

jhkim, just stop it.

Years ago, on this very forum, these topics were discussed. The conclusion reached was that the GBLT community was accepted by the majority of society, but the fringe elements were going to end up dragging the rest down out of acceptance. People don't like paedo grooming for kids by ANY sexuality. People don't like trans athletes competing in women's sports. People don't like wedding industry small business being targetted for life destroying lawsuits over their religious beliefs. The GBLT community is about to fuck up and surrender any ground it may have gained socially because of all this. In all seriousness, by advocating for this horrendous bullshit you are hurting your own cause.

As someone who was not here for that discussion, I want to point out the fatal flaw in that conclusion; "accepted" is undefined and ripe for equivocation in both directions. If you think that conclusion will stand the test of time, you're fooling yourself; the very nature of these discussions is a slippery slope.

So advocating for historically offensive and alienating fringe elements of the GBLT movement is the best way to win friends and influence people? You better start studying because you have a lot to learn.

As someone who used to laugh at the slippery slope "falacy", who has gay and lesbian family memebers and who would hate to see the tolerance achieved in the west set back 20+ years due to the lefts love of the anormal and their push for normalizing pedophilia and grooming children both into transitioning and into their cult I'm angry as all fuck against these idiots and the cowards in the GLB "T" communities for not speaking against this.
Not all are cowards. The TERFs are constantly speaking out against this stuff but the MSM refuses to cover them for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 03, 2022, 03:02:57 AM
Kids will hear it on the playground before it's ever discussed at home.

It's a moot point.

Silence always serves the predators.  Always watch who's screaming for people to be silenced.  Ignorance makes for a fertile hunting ground.

Kids will talk with their peers therefore it's perfectly fine to allow the teachers to have secret sexual chats with the children and to instruct them not to tell their parents...

And if you disagree you're enabling pedophilia...

WTAFF!?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 03, 2022, 03:04:58 AM
I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?

First of all, the clause in question has nothing about parental consent. Those topics are banned in school regardless of whether parents give consent or not.

If that clause were about parental permission, would that apply equally to straight sexuality? So could gay parents block any instruction on straight relationships to their kids? So, if a class includes how George Washington was married to Martha Washington, they can sue to prevent that being said? And they could prevent Snow White or Sleeping Beauty from being read?

I think no one here would support that. Because straight sexuality is discussed all the time in K-3, in fiction, history, and civics. The standard that the law encourages is that straight relationships like Snow White or George Washington's marriage are perfectly acceptable topics for young kids, but gay relationships are considered inappropriate.

jhkim, just stop it.

Years ago, on this very forum, these topics were discussed. The conclusion reached was that the GBLT community was accepted by the majority of society, but the fringe elements were going to end up dragging the rest down out of acceptance. People don't like paedo grooming for kids by ANY sexuality. People don't like trans athletes competing in women's sports. People don't like wedding industry small business being targetted for life destroying lawsuits over their religious beliefs. The GBLT community is about to fuck up and surrender any ground it may have gained socially because of all this. In all seriousness, by advocating for this horrendous bullshit you are hurting your own cause.

As someone who was not here for that discussion, I want to point out the fatal flaw in that conclusion; "accepted" is undefined and ripe for equivocation in both directions. If you think that conclusion will stand the test of time, you're fooling yourself; the very nature of these discussions is a slippery slope.

So advocating for historically offensive and alienating fringe elements of the GBLT movement is the best way to win friends and influence people? You better start studying because you have a lot to learn.

As someone who used to laugh at the slippery slope "falacy", who has gay and lesbian family memebers and who would hate to see the tolerance achieved in the west set back 20+ years due to the lefts love of the anormal and their push for normalizing pedophilia and grooming children both into transitioning and into their cult I'm angry as all fuck against these idiots and the cowards in the GLB "T" communities for not speaking against this.
Not all are cowards. The TERFs are constantly speaking out against this stuff but the MSM refuses to cover them for obvious reasons.

The TERFs only started speaking about it because it impacted them. You also have people like Blaire White. But notice my redaction, I'm not saying that all are, just calling out the ones who are.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 03, 2022, 09:16:28 AM
And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

Fuck you, jeff. What I said to Dellaforno's friend is that we're a bunch of assholes here - which is exactly the same thing I say to your face. Most of us here will proudly admit to that. I didn't say anything on Facebook that I don't say here.

The only thing I said just now was that I had gay friends - so you're claiming that having gay friends is being "woke". But I know plenty of libertarian or even conservative folks who have gay friends, or are gay themselves. You can accuse me of being woke over other things, but being gay or having gay friends doesn't mean that someone is woke.

Bullshit.

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.


Is you using your son as a standard bearer to impress upon the reader how socially just your son has been raised by you. It is virtue signalling at its lowest and is woke as Hell.

Meanwhile, you're acting as if the Florida bill prevents explicit sex ed in grades K-3, but that's not what the bill does. It allows any degree of sex ed to kids, as long as it's hetero sex. What it does is ban any discussion of gayness. And my position is there's nothing inappropriate to kids in K-3 about stuff like marriage, parents, growing up, and similar.

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on April 03, 2022, 12:26:42 PM
So, if I were a school principal interpreting this bill and trying to avoid trouble, I'd say "avoid any discussion of sex and sexual orientation until after 3rd grade". Which is probably what the intention is, and probably is just fine. I didn't have any discussion of sexual matters by teachers in school until fifth or sixth grade I think.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 03, 2022, 12:38:28 PM
It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Thanks, Mistwell. I posted it earlier in Reply #940 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/rpgnet-s-decay-tbp-madness/msg1211827/#msg1211827), but it's good to repeat it.

As I read it, this bans a teacher from defining what "gay" means to students, since that would be instruction on sexual orientation. Further, even if they didn't technically define the word "gay" - this could be invoked if a teacher said stuff that portrayed gay people. I gave the example of reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" to students, which I think would be sued under this law.

Wntrlnd gave an example about a message telling kids that probably someone in their class would grow up to be gay, as part of teaching kids not to ostracize or shame kids for perceived gay behavior - and I think that would also be banned, because in order to teach what it means that one will grow up to be gay, that requires either defining or illustrating what that means.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 03, 2022, 12:54:47 PM
It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Thanks, Mistwell. I posted it earlier in Reply #940 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/rpgnet-s-decay-tbp-madness/msg1211827/#msg1211827), but it's good to repeat it.

As I read it, this bans a teacher from defining what "gay" means to students, since that would be instruction on sexual orientation. Further, even if they didn't technically define the word "gay" - this could be invoked if a teacher said stuff that portrayed gay people. I gave the example of reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" to students, which I think would be sued under this law.

Wntrlnd gave an example about a message telling kids that probably someone in their class would grow up to be gay, as part of teaching kids not to ostracize or shame kids for perceived gay behavior - and I think that would also be banned, because in order to teach what it means that one will grow up to be gay, that requires either defining or illustrating what that means.

Is straight a sexual orientation? Yes or no.
Is "Cis" a gender identity? Yes or no.

Let me save you the mental gimnastics, the answer to both is yes. Therefore the bill clearlñy prohibits any and all discussion of such matters regardless of your sexuality or gender identity.

But both of you may (and most certainly will) keep equivocating and being disingenuous.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on April 03, 2022, 01:17:08 PM
As far as "only heterosexual content" is allowed, there is one more aspect to this:
Say, that a kid asks "how do moms and dads make babies" ?
Well, you can answer the question perfectly well, with no lies, without getting into sexual orientation, although the activity is a heterosexual one. So heterosexuality does, in a sense, have more of a general "application" if you will.  But given the current law, it's probably safest for the teacher to tell the kid to ask mom and dad.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 03, 2022, 01:19:22 PM
Is straight a sexual orientation? Yes or no.
Is "Cis" a gender identity? Yes or no.

Let me save you the mental gimnastics, the answer to both is yes. Therefore the bill clearlñy prohibits any and all discussion of such matters regardless of your sexuality or gender identity.

But both of you may (and most certainly will) keep equivocating and being disingenuous.

This is the point that I was making earlier that straight and gay are not being treated equally.

Let's take, for example, a coming-of-age story like Bambi growing up in the Disney movie. In the "twitterpated" scene, he and his male friends are shown becoming attracted to and pairing off with girl animals. Does this mean that Bambi or any story with similar themes would be banned from being shown to kids in K-3?

I believe that this was not intended and would not be enforced. However, I do think that if any story portrayed gay attraction in the same manner would be sued under the law.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 03, 2022, 03:22:51 PM
It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Thanks, Mistwell. I posted it earlier in Reply #940 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/rpgnet-s-decay-tbp-madness/msg1211827/#msg1211827), but it's good to repeat it.

As I read it, this bans a teacher from defining what "gay" means to students, since that would be instruction on sexual orientation. Further, even if they didn't technically define the word "gay" - this could be invoked if a teacher said stuff that portrayed gay people. I gave the example of reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" to students, which I think would be sued under this law.

Wntrlnd gave an example about a message telling kids that probably someone in their class would grow up to be gay, as part of teaching kids not to ostracize or shame kids for perceived gay behavior - and I think that would also be banned, because in order to teach what it means that one will grow up to be gay, that requires either defining or illustrating what that means.

Is straight a sexual orientation? Yes or no.
Is "Cis" a gender identity? Yes or no.

Let me save you the mental gimnastics, the answer to both is yes. Therefore the bill clearlñy prohibits any and all discussion of such matters regardless of your sexuality or gender identity.

But both of you may (and most certainly will) keep equivocating and being disingenuous.

By "both of you" are you accusing jhkim of having multiple personalities? Or did you include Jeff in that? Because all I said in that quote is "People keep accusing others of not reading the text so here is the text" and earlier I said "I get the intent of this but I don't think they wrote the legalize all that well to match that intent." Neither of which I think can be fairly construed as "being disingenuous."

I am genuinely saying they should have written this bill better, with specific examples of acceptable and unacceptable behavior so that everyone is clear on what is and is not allowed and doesn't have to depend on vaguely worded standards or "mother may I?" memos to the whims of principals and other administrators which can vary from school to school or district to district.

I work in the education field, in an adjacent sense, and I know how vaguely worded standards tend to operate. It doesn't help anyone to not make standards really clear, and with examples.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 03, 2022, 04:03:46 PM
Is straight a sexual orientation? Yes or no.
Is "Cis" a gender identity? Yes or no.

Let me save you the mental gimnastics, the answer to both is yes. Therefore the bill clearlñy prohibits any and all discussion of such matters regardless of your sexuality or gender identity.

But both of you may (and most certainly will) keep equivocating and being disingenuous.

This is the point that I was making earlier that straight and gay are not being treated equally.

Let's take, for example, a coming-of-age story like Bambi growing up in the Disney movie. In the "twitterpated" scene, he and his male friends are shown becoming attracted to and pairing off with girl animals. Does this mean that Bambi or any story with similar themes would be banned from being shown to kids in K-3?

I believe that this was not intended and would not be enforced. However, I do think that if any story portrayed gay attraction in the same manner would be sued under the law.

I'm sure there's lots of gay deer, rabits and skunks....

Turn on the TV, tell me the ratio of LGB  to hetero in ANY kids show not to mention in other age brackets.

" I do think, I do believe, I feel" Call me when you have anything concrete that can be measured.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: tenbones on April 03, 2022, 04:11:25 PM
There is a difference between watching Bambi, which is a non-interactive animated movie that literally has nothing to do with sexuality in theme, and an adult human authority figure with an agenda to inculcate the mind of a child with their specific viewpoint on sexual practices that *they* arbitrarily find "normal" for the express purpose of promoting such.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on April 03, 2022, 04:39:24 PM
Let's take, for example, a coming-of-age story like Bambi growing up in the Disney movie. In the "twitterpated" scene, he and his male friends are shown becoming attracted to and pairing off with girl animals. Does this mean that Bambi or any story with similar themes would be banned from being shown to kids in K-3?
I did not know Bambi was a teacher in Florida. That's a major victory for cervine representation!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 03, 2022, 04:52:55 PM
Let's take, for example, a coming-of-age story like Bambi growing up in the Disney movie. In the "twitterpated" scene, he and his male friends are shown becoming attracted to and pairing off with girl animals. Does this mean that Bambi or any story with similar themes would be banned from being shown to kids in K-3?
I did not know Bambi was a teacher in Florida. That's a major victory for cervine representation!

LOL!

Also "Girl Animals"?

Girl = Immature Human Female.

Ergo there's no such thing as "Girl Animals", you have ONE animal to which you can apply the term.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on April 03, 2022, 05:05:55 PM
jkim is absolutely right.  I personally would have turned out queer if not for the gender affirmation of the animated Bambi movie.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 03, 2022, 07:11:27 PM
And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

Fuck you, jeff. What I said to Dellaforno's friend is that we're a bunch of assholes here - which is exactly the same thing I say to your face. Most of us here will proudly admit to that. I didn't say anything on Facebook that I don't say here.

The only thing I said just now was that I had gay friends - so you're claiming that having gay friends is being "woke". But I know plenty of libertarian or even conservative folks who have gay friends, or are gay themselves. You can accuse me of being woke over other things, but being gay or having gay friends doesn't mean that someone is woke.

Bullshit.

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.


Is you using your son as a standard bearer to impress upon the reader how socially just your son has been raised by you. It is virtue signalling at its lowest and is woke as Hell.

Meanwhile, you're acting as if the Florida bill prevents explicit sex ed in grades K-3, but that's not what the bill does. It allows any degree of sex ed to kids, as long as it's hetero sex. What it does is ban any discussion of gayness. And my position is there's nothing inappropriate to kids in K-3 about stuff like marriage, parents, growing up, and similar.

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Hey look, it is the other flavor of jell-o!

Nowhere in your quotes, which don't link back to a verified representation of the bill, does it say "don't say gay". Your quotes appear to say that discussion of that subject matter of ANY orientation will not occur.

So thank you for supporting my argument.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 03, 2022, 07:14:23 PM
It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Thanks, Mistwell. I posted it earlier in Reply #940 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/rpgnet-s-decay-tbp-madness/msg1211827/#msg1211827), but it's good to repeat it.

As I read it, this bans a teacher from defining what "gay" means to students, since that would be instruction on sexual orientation. Further, even if they didn't technically define the word "gay" - this could be invoked if a teacher said stuff that portrayed gay people. I gave the example of reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" to students, which I think would be sued under this law.

So we should only use your own personal interpretation? Even though it is most likely a lie?

gave an example about a message telling kids that probably someone in their class would grow up to be gay, as part of teaching kids not to ostracize or shame kids for perceived gay behavior - and I think that would also be banned, because in order to teach what it means that one will grow up to be gay, that requires either defining or illustrating what that means.

Can you provide us with a link? Otherwise, this is also most likely a lie.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 03, 2022, 07:16:22 PM
Is straight a sexual orientation? Yes or no.
Is "Cis" a gender identity? Yes or no.

Let me save you the mental gimnastics, the answer to both is yes. Therefore the bill clearlñy prohibits any and all discussion of such matters regardless of your sexuality or gender identity.

But both of you may (and most certainly will) keep equivocating and being disingenuous.

This is the point that I was making earlier that straight and gay are not being treated equally.

Let's take, for example, a coming-of-age story like Bambi growing up in the Disney movie. In the "twitterpated" scene, he and his male friends are shown becoming attracted to and pairing off with girl animals. Does this mean that Bambi or any story with similar themes would be banned from being shown to kids in K-3?

I believe that this was not intended and would not be enforced. However, I do think that if any story portrayed gay attraction in the same manner would be sued under the law.

Straight and gay are not being treated equally because Bambi?

You are trying to turn this into a drinking game, aren't you?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 03, 2022, 07:20:58 PM
It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Thanks, Mistwell. I posted it earlier in Reply #940 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/rpgnet-s-decay-tbp-madness/msg1211827/#msg1211827), but it's good to repeat it.

As I read it, this bans a teacher from defining what "gay" means to students, since that would be instruction on sexual orientation. Further, even if they didn't technically define the word "gay" - this could be invoked if a teacher said stuff that portrayed gay people. I gave the example of reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" to students, which I think would be sued under this law.

Wntrlnd gave an example about a message telling kids that probably someone in their class would grow up to be gay, as part of teaching kids not to ostracize or shame kids for perceived gay behavior - and I think that would also be banned, because in order to teach what it means that one will grow up to be gay, that requires either defining or illustrating what that means.

Is straight a sexual orientation? Yes or no.
Is "Cis" a gender identity? Yes or no.

Let me save you the mental gimnastics, the answer to both is yes. Therefore the bill clearlñy prohibits any and all discussion of such matters regardless of your sexuality or gender identity.

But both of you may (and most certainly will) keep equivocating and being disingenuous.

By "both of you" are you accusing jhkim of having multiple personalities? Or did you include Jeff in that? Because all I said in that quote is "People keep accusing others of not reading the text so here is the text" and earlier I said "I get the intent of this but I don't think they wrote the legalize all that well to match that intent." Neither of which I think can be fairly construed as "being disingenuous."

I am genuinely saying they should have written this bill better, with specific examples of acceptable and unacceptable behavior so that everyone is clear on what is and is not allowed and doesn't have to depend on vaguely worded standards or "mother may I?" memos to the whims of principals and other administrators which can vary from school to school or district to district.

I work in the education field, in an adjacent sense, and I know how vaguely worded standards tend to operate. It doesn't help anyone to not make standards really clear, and with examples.

We are RPG hobbyists, so saying that we have multiple aspects to our personalities could be the most truthful thing that you have ever said.

As far as, "I work in the education field, in an adjacent sense"....
The last I heard, your education field work consisted of selling caps & gowns for graduation ceremonies - that hardly makes you an expert in education. If you were going to claim expertise, you should have said that you were a parent.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 03, 2022, 07:47:38 PM
jkim is absolutely right.  I personally would have turned out queer if not for the gender affirmation of the animated Bambi movie.

...
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277554818_5097362723654498_2368097284540854399_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DboadkBGJZgAX-o6qi9&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=00_AT9Xg2FFAt8s_wZ4dnZuHgo6x5Lc0yVmsgRRrvZJ5e9Rig&oe=624F1D2E)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on April 03, 2022, 08:11:05 PM
jkim is absolutely right.  I personally would have turned out queer if not for the gender affirmation of the animated Bambi movie.

...
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277554818_5097362723654498_2368097284540854399_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DboadkBGJZgAX-o6qi9&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=00_AT9Xg2FFAt8s_wZ4dnZuHgo6x5Lc0yVmsgRRrvZJ5e9Rig&oe=624F1D2E)

Thank you for your service
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on April 04, 2022, 02:17:35 AM
jkim is absolutely right.  I personally would have turned out queer if not for the gender affirmation of the animated Bambi movie.

...
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277554818_5097362723654498_2368097284540854399_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DboadkBGJZgAX-o6qi9&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=00_AT9Xg2FFAt8s_wZ4dnZuHgo6x5Lc0yVmsgRRrvZJ5e9Rig&oe=624F1D2E)

Interesting fact.

While I liked Bambi as a kid, anthropomorphizing dinner was the beginning of the end for western society.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Warboss Squee on April 04, 2022, 03:07:10 AM
Simple solution to this debate.

Tell me why (opponents of this bill) you want to, or think it's needful, to discuss sex, gender, or sexual dynamics with six year old children.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 04, 2022, 05:11:09 AM
Greetings!

Indeed. Teaching young kids about sex, and sexual dynamics and relationships is not for kids. That is the PARENTS prerogative, not the fucking school teachers. If the cock-sucking rainbow hippo teachers don't like that, they should be fucking fired. It's good to get rid of all of these slimy, Liberal "School Teachers" anyways. Most of the fucking school teachers in more recent years are more like propagandists and "Community Activists" than like genuine school teachers. So very many of our young children in schools are not learning a goddamned thing worthwhile. Instead of learning reading, writing, and rythmatic, they are being brainwashed with SJW Woke Marxism and rainbow hippo propaganda.

Let the Liberals REEE!! They have fucked this country up so much, it's good to see more people waking up to their bullshit and getting mean and savage with them, and not giving a fuck what the Liberals cry about on anything.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 04, 2022, 09:06:06 AM
Stop trying to convince jhkim and Misty that instructing children in sexual perversion is wrong. We all know how they think.

Anyways, back on track.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/peterm-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning.895717/

Q99 fails, once again, to post the reasoning, so I'll just repost what it found so appalling:

Quote
There are some very damning stories about Ringo's behavior at cons, though the specific one I'm thinking of apparently took place after both these books were published so nothing in the books could have been a reaction to that. I'm not going to repeat the story because it's disturbing and there's only hearsay to say it's true, but one thing I have seen repeated by various people is that Ringo threw his weight around and made people uncomfortable, including being followed around by big guys wearing "Ringo's Roughnecks" shirts. He's claimed it was all in good fun and anyone who thinks otherwise is too sensitive, which for all I know is true.

According to Q99, this is 'preemptively defending', a subset violation of 'listen and believe, bigot!'.

Quote
Pre-emptively defending someone with "He's claimed it was all in good fun and anyone who thinks otherwise is too sensitive, which for all I know is true" about harassment is not acceptable, especially with an author whose racism and bigotry is well known. Take an official warning and don't do it again.

Whatever, Q99. We all know you're useless.

Meanwhile, Menocchio eats a threadban for dark humor: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/menocchio-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-threadban.895751/

Since the mods of TBP are all humorless wokescolds, I could've seen that one coming a mile away.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 04, 2022, 01:22:10 PM
Stop trying to convince jhkim and Misty that instructing children in sexual perversion is wrong. We all know how they think.

Anyways, back on track.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/peterm-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning.895717/

Q99 fails, once again, to post the reasoning, so I'll just repost what it found so appalling:

Quote
There are some very damning stories about Ringo's behavior at cons, though the specific one I'm thinking of apparently took place after both these books were published so nothing in the books could have been a reaction to that. I'm not going to repeat the story because it's disturbing and there's only hearsay to say it's true, but one thing I have seen repeated by various people is that Ringo threw his weight around and made people uncomfortable, including being followed around by big guys wearing "Ringo's Roughnecks" shirts. He's claimed it was all in good fun and anyone who thinks otherwise is too sensitive, which for all I know is true.

According to Q99, this is 'preemptively defending', a subset violation of 'listen and believe, bigot!'.

In a moment of synchronicity, I'm going to post John Ringo's opinion of why Cons have been failing, pre-COVID.

Quote from: John Ringo
John Ringo
August 29, 2016

   Moshe Feder

(Name redacted)
   I have some hope after seeing Moshe Feder's comments. I was talking with the owner of a comic book store in town who has been active in fandom for a long time. He use to be involved in cons and was a Fan Guest of Honor at Dragon Con one year. He told (me) the split in fandom occurred during the Vietnam War. I started reading science fiction around the time the US involvement in Vietnam was winding down.

   John Ringo

   Moshe's comment actually made me angry as hell. Mostly because I knew he had a brain and I couldn't believe it had taken him this long to use it.

   The split back then was specifically and pointedly quashed by both sides of fandom and pros. (Robert Heinlein, Isaac Asimov and Bob Tucker were all involved.)

   Everyone agreed to disagree on the subject of the war but get along within fandom.

   This split is different. It has been widening at least since the mid 90s and shows no signs of healing. Because both 'pro-fans' and 'pros' need to start to realize both sides have points to share. Alas, nobody on the left is willing to cede the slightest bit of ground and the right has gotten so tired of being vilified they're unwilling to even start the conversation.

   I know I'm unwilling. We've tried repeatedly to 'open a dialogue' and got fucked over for it just as repeatedly. (Please see my RavenCon AAR for one example.) Pretty much we (conservative/libertarian authors/fans) are done and could give two shits what anyone thinks.

   The complete absence of a huge market from various cons (all the, yes, conservative/libertarian readers who get tired of being treated like shit) is one of the many reasons lit-cons are failing. (See below.) But from the POV of the left, 'it's better to burn a village than save it.'

   RL example: SheVaCon. SheVaCon was a small Virginia con that was about 500 members. The concom was pretty evenly split left/right but the 'right' side was very quiet in their views. (The Left not so much.) The 'right' side also had connections with Baen authors. (Not all right, BTW. Eric Flint is an avowed Communist.)

   They started inviting Baen authors. Baen fans, many libertarian/ conservative, thus started to show up. They started doing a range day. More fans, really unaffiliated but in general more 'right wing' than the con had trended, started showing up. The con got much larger.

   However, friends of the 'left' side of the concom were having to share their formerly safe-space with conservatives/ libertarians. They were encountering arguments they didn't like and we tended to be fairly rowdy. One woman even told me 'I wasn't even aware there WERE conservative fans!' (My reply was 'You know all those people who don't talk to you? Those are the conservatives.')

   The Concom therefore instigated a putsch against the 'conservative' faction of the concom, pitching out all the people who had the connections with the 'wrong' fans.

   Result?

   The now 'cleansed' conom asked the usual authors to attend, citing all sorts of lies about the people who had been putsched (all friends of the authors who were getting both sides of the story.) The authors, more or less to a person and independently, told them to fuck off.

   No big name authors, no huge attendance. Their attendance dropped 30% the year after the putsch. They dropped more the next year and then faded away.

   One of the main reasons I attend as few cons as I do these days is the unending crap I take for being a known 'controversial conservative author'. (Although Larry has made such a name for himself in the arena people now consider me 'moderate.') Not to mention the absolute horse-shit I've had to listen to or the attempts to stifle me from 'speaking truth to power.' Being told 'That's not true!' about things that are verifiable facts. (And not even controversial ones.) 'That's not true... moving on...' is a tactic that was promoted by leftist ideologists a few years back and it got so old it was insane. Being told, metaphorically, to shut up and mind my manners cause I was a cis-male normative conservative and thus had no right to speak. WindyCon and RavenCon pretty much poisoned me against any con that MIGHT be the way they were in the future. And I now tell concoms of cons I don't know well, 'If I have to put up with crap, I'm walking and you can eat the costs.'

   So... The spit is there, it's been there, it's getting wider mostly because people are finally starting to notice it and from my POV I could give a shit less. I have a few cons I attend and enjoy and there's no real need for me to attend cons in terms of market so I just hit those and ignore the rest. And the cons I attend, oddly enough, are the ones that are doing REALLY WELL whereas the ones which play the 'truefen' game are dying. Go figure.

   At the current rate the 'truefen' cons will be relegated to a few large cities with enough population to support them and otherwise 'lit' cons will dry up and blow away. Except for the ones that DON'T play the 'truefen' game and ignore politics. Which as I pointed out to the con-chair of one that used those words exactly: 'In this day and age, 'we ignore people's politics, gender and race and only care if they're interesting and have a good time' IS a political statement.'

   As for the truefen cons: The sooner they die off the better.

   The MAIN reason they're dying off:

   Cons are a business.

   If you did a survey of all the 'big name' authors in SF you'd think that, based upon the general 'feel' of things, the most sales go to the left. And don't get me wrong, the left has some HUGE names. GRRM and Neil Gaiman come to mind. But if you grouped all the conservative/libertarian authors vs 'SJW' authors who were, say, midlist and higher, you'd find that the libertarian/conservative side would add up to more total sales. You don't see them on NYT, of course, they most definitely are NOT allowed to win a Hugo (very few Hugo winners are large sales authors) and you have to sort of dive deep into public records, but very few of the 'great' authors supported by the SJW side really sell worth a crap.

   What does that have to do with fandom, you ask?

   Why do people go to cons, by and large, the first time?
   'There's someone there I've read.' (For litcons.)

   Why do authors go to cons, by and large?

   Most 'mid-list/high-list' authors don’t actually NEED cons to increase their sales. You'll pick up a fraction of a percent of your total sales in new readers at most. (Even at really big cons like DragonCon.)

   Self publish obviously go to pimp/sell their books. But self publish isn't going to be a big draw.

   'Big' authors only go to have a good time. They want to meet some new people, do some 'fan service' (being nice to fans), sign some books and generally hang out and enjoy the con.

   They DON'T want to have a battle royale at every panel, be told to shut up, they don't have an opinion, be insulted and belittled, be told 'you can't say that'. Who does?

   So as cons get certain reputations, big name cons/lib authors avoid them like the plague.

   Since the majority of the 'new' attendees for any con are (based upon sales) more likely to attend one with a cons/lib author then you need to attract cons/lib authors to your con. But… Cons/lib authors aren't going to attend your con if it has the reputation of being an SJW blowjob fest. Trust me, we learn that lesson REALLY quick.

   There's only three things important in any business, market, market, market. Cons are a business. (Absent having a sugar daddy to support them.)

   Cons that can't attract cons/lib authors because of the climate of hatred can't maintain their attendance thus eventually dry up and blow away.

   That's why cons are failing. The SJW cons are going for the noise rather than the reality, creating 'safe spaces' where they don't have to deal with mean, nasty conservatives and libertarians and generally limiting their market thereby. And it's killing them off one by one.

   Good. The sooner they are gone the better. Fuck 'em all.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 04, 2022, 02:30:58 PM
Stop trying to convince jhkim and Misty that instructing children in sexual perversion is wrong. We all know how they think.

Anyways, back on track.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/peterm-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning.895717/

Q99 fails, once again, to post the reasoning, so I'll just repost what it found so appalling:

Quote
There are some very damning stories about Ringo's behavior at cons, though the specific one I'm thinking of apparently took place after both these books were published so nothing in the books could have been a reaction to that. I'm not going to repeat the story because it's disturbing and there's only hearsay to say it's true, but one thing I have seen repeated by various people is that Ringo threw his weight around and made people uncomfortable, including being followed around by big guys wearing "Ringo's Roughnecks" shirts. He's claimed it was all in good fun and anyone who thinks otherwise is too sensitive, which for all I know is true.

According to Q99, this is 'preemptively defending', a subset violation of 'listen and believe, bigot!'.

In a moment of synchronicity, I'm going to post John Ringo's opinion of why Cons have been failing, pre-COVID.

Quote from: John Ringo
John Ringo
August 29, 2016

   Moshe Feder

(Name redacted)
   I have some hope after seeing Moshe Feder's comments. I was talking with the owner of a comic book store in town who has been active in fandom for a long time. He use to be involved in cons and was a Fan Guest of Honor at Dragon Con one year. He told (me) the split in fandom occurred during the Vietnam War. I started reading science fiction around the time the US involvement in Vietnam was winding down.

   John Ringo

   Moshe's comment actually made me angry as hell. Mostly because I knew he had a brain and I couldn't believe it had taken him this long to use it.

   The split back then was specifically and pointedly quashed by both sides of fandom and pros. (Robert Heinlein, Isaac Asimov and Bob Tucker were all involved.)

   Everyone agreed to disagree on the subject of the war but get along within fandom.

   This split is different. It has been widening at least since the mid 90s and shows no signs of healing. Because both 'pro-fans' and 'pros' need to start to realize both sides have points to share. Alas, nobody on the left is willing to cede the slightest bit of ground and the right has gotten so tired of being vilified they're unwilling to even start the conversation.

   I know I'm unwilling. We've tried repeatedly to 'open a dialogue' and got fucked over for it just as repeatedly. (Please see my RavenCon AAR for one example.) Pretty much we (conservative/libertarian authors/fans) are done and could give two shits what anyone thinks.

   The complete absence of a huge market from various cons (all the, yes, conservative/libertarian readers who get tired of being treated like shit) is one of the many reasons lit-cons are failing. (See below.) But from the POV of the left, 'it's better to burn a village than save it.'

   RL example: SheVaCon. SheVaCon was a small Virginia con that was about 500 members. The concom was pretty evenly split left/right but the 'right' side was very quiet in their views. (The Left not so much.) The 'right' side also had connections with Baen authors. (Not all right, BTW. Eric Flint is an avowed Communist.)

   They started inviting Baen authors. Baen fans, many libertarian/ conservative, thus started to show up. They started doing a range day. More fans, really unaffiliated but in general more 'right wing' than the con had trended, started showing up. The con got much larger.

   However, friends of the 'left' side of the concom were having to share their formerly safe-space with conservatives/ libertarians. They were encountering arguments they didn't like and we tended to be fairly rowdy. One woman even told me 'I wasn't even aware there WERE conservative fans!' (My reply was 'You know all those people who don't talk to you? Those are the conservatives.')

   The Concom therefore instigated a putsch against the 'conservative' faction of the concom, pitching out all the people who had the connections with the 'wrong' fans.

   Result?

   The now 'cleansed' conom asked the usual authors to attend, citing all sorts of lies about the people who had been putsched (all friends of the authors who were getting both sides of the story.) The authors, more or less to a person and independently, told them to fuck off.

   No big name authors, no huge attendance. Their attendance dropped 30% the year after the putsch. They dropped more the next year and then faded away.

   One of the main reasons I attend as few cons as I do these days is the unending crap I take for being a known 'controversial conservative author'. (Although Larry has made such a name for himself in the arena people now consider me 'moderate.') Not to mention the absolute horse-shit I've had to listen to or the attempts to stifle me from 'speaking truth to power.' Being told 'That's not true!' about things that are verifiable facts. (And not even controversial ones.) 'That's not true... moving on...' is a tactic that was promoted by leftist ideologists a few years back and it got so old it was insane. Being told, metaphorically, to shut up and mind my manners cause I was a cis-male normative conservative and thus had no right to speak. WindyCon and RavenCon pretty much poisoned me against any con that MIGHT be the way they were in the future. And I now tell concoms of cons I don't know well, 'If I have to put up with crap, I'm walking and you can eat the costs.'

   So... The spit is there, it's been there, it's getting wider mostly because people are finally starting to notice it and from my POV I could give a shit less. I have a few cons I attend and enjoy and there's no real need for me to attend cons in terms of market so I just hit those and ignore the rest. And the cons I attend, oddly enough, are the ones that are doing REALLY WELL whereas the ones which play the 'truefen' game are dying. Go figure.

   At the current rate the 'truefen' cons will be relegated to a few large cities with enough population to support them and otherwise 'lit' cons will dry up and blow away. Except for the ones that DON'T play the 'truefen' game and ignore politics. Which as I pointed out to the con-chair of one that used those words exactly: 'In this day and age, 'we ignore people's politics, gender and race and only care if they're interesting and have a good time' IS a political statement.'

   As for the truefen cons: The sooner they die off the better.

   The MAIN reason they're dying off:

   Cons are a business.

   If you did a survey of all the 'big name' authors in SF you'd think that, based upon the general 'feel' of things, the most sales go to the left. And don't get me wrong, the left has some HUGE names. GRRM and Neil Gaiman come to mind. But if you grouped all the conservative/libertarian authors vs 'SJW' authors who were, say, midlist and higher, you'd find that the libertarian/conservative side would add up to more total sales. You don't see them on NYT, of course, they most definitely are NOT allowed to win a Hugo (very few Hugo winners are large sales authors) and you have to sort of dive deep into public records, but very few of the 'great' authors supported by the SJW side really sell worth a crap.

   What does that have to do with fandom, you ask?

   Why do people go to cons, by and large, the first time?
   'There's someone there I've read.' (For litcons.)

   Why do authors go to cons, by and large?

   Most 'mid-list/high-list' authors don’t actually NEED cons to increase their sales. You'll pick up a fraction of a percent of your total sales in new readers at most. (Even at really big cons like DragonCon.)

   Self publish obviously go to pimp/sell their books. But self publish isn't going to be a big draw.

   'Big' authors only go to have a good time. They want to meet some new people, do some 'fan service' (being nice to fans), sign some books and generally hang out and enjoy the con.

   They DON'T want to have a battle royale at every panel, be told to shut up, they don't have an opinion, be insulted and belittled, be told 'you can't say that'. Who does?

   So as cons get certain reputations, big name cons/lib authors avoid them like the plague.

   Since the majority of the 'new' attendees for any con are (based upon sales) more likely to attend one with a cons/lib author then you need to attract cons/lib authors to your con. But… Cons/lib authors aren't going to attend your con if it has the reputation of being an SJW blowjob fest. Trust me, we learn that lesson REALLY quick.

   There's only three things important in any business, market, market, market. Cons are a business. (Absent having a sugar daddy to support them.)

   Cons that can't attract cons/lib authors because of the climate of hatred can't maintain their attendance thus eventually dry up and blow away.

   That's why cons are failing. The SJW cons are going for the noise rather than the reality, creating 'safe spaces' where they don't have to deal with mean, nasty conservatives and libertarians and generally limiting their market thereby. And it's killing them off one by one.

   Good. The sooner they are gone the better. Fuck 'em all.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with Ringo's analysis, but I completely support his viewpoint. Everything woke turns to shit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 04, 2022, 04:35:53 PM
And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

Fuck you, jeff. What I said to Dellaforno's friend is that we're a bunch of assholes here - which is exactly the same thing I say to your face. Most of us here will proudly admit to that. I didn't say anything on Facebook that I don't say here.

The only thing I said just now was that I had gay friends - so you're claiming that having gay friends is being "woke". But I know plenty of libertarian or even conservative folks who have gay friends, or are gay themselves. You can accuse me of being woke over other things, but being gay or having gay friends doesn't mean that someone is woke.

Bullshit.

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.


Is you using your son as a standard bearer to impress upon the reader how socially just your son has been raised by you. It is virtue signalling at its lowest and is woke as Hell.

Meanwhile, you're acting as if the Florida bill prevents explicit sex ed in grades K-3, but that's not what the bill does. It allows any degree of sex ed to kids, as long as it's hetero sex. What it does is ban any discussion of gayness. And my position is there's nothing inappropriate to kids in K-3 about stuff like marriage, parents, growing up, and similar.

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Hey look, it is the other flavor of jell-o!

Nowhere in your quotes, which don't link back to a verified representation of the bill, does it say "don't say gay". Your quotes appear to say that discussion of that subject matter of ANY orientation will not occur.

So thank you for supporting my argument.

Hey Jeff, believe it or not I was not posting to agree or disagree with anyone. If you think those are not the actual quotes from the bill then feel free to google them. All I was doing was trying to be helpful by posting the relevant sections people were discussing so everyone was on the same page for their discussion. The only "position" I've posted on this topic at all is I wish the authors of the bill had been more clear and used specific examples of behavior which is acceptable or not acceptable rather than leaving it to each district and each school to interpret those clauses for themselves, because I've repeatedly seen what poorly phrased vague bills do in the education system and all that does is waste everyone's time.

For instance, I wish the bill said something like, "if the topic of sexuality comes up in the classroom, teachers should refer students to discuss that matter with their parent or guardian rather than discussing it in class." or something like that. Let teachers and parents know what's expected concerning these matters.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 04, 2022, 04:38:49 PM
It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Thanks, Mistwell. I posted it earlier in Reply #940 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/rpgnet-s-decay-tbp-madness/msg1211827/#msg1211827), but it's good to repeat it.

As I read it, this bans a teacher from defining what "gay" means to students, since that would be instruction on sexual orientation. Further, even if they didn't technically define the word "gay" - this could be invoked if a teacher said stuff that portrayed gay people. I gave the example of reading "Heather Has Two Mommies" to students, which I think would be sued under this law.

Wntrlnd gave an example about a message telling kids that probably someone in their class would grow up to be gay, as part of teaching kids not to ostracize or shame kids for perceived gay behavior - and I think that would also be banned, because in order to teach what it means that one will grow up to be gay, that requires either defining or illustrating what that means.

Is straight a sexual orientation? Yes or no.
Is "Cis" a gender identity? Yes or no.

Let me save you the mental gimnastics, the answer to both is yes. Therefore the bill clearlñy prohibits any and all discussion of such matters regardless of your sexuality or gender identity.

But both of you may (and most certainly will) keep equivocating and being disingenuous.

By "both of you" are you accusing jhkim of having multiple personalities? Or did you include Jeff in that? Because all I said in that quote is "People keep accusing others of not reading the text so here is the text" and earlier I said "I get the intent of this but I don't think they wrote the legalize all that well to match that intent." Neither of which I think can be fairly construed as "being disingenuous."

I am genuinely saying they should have written this bill better, with specific examples of acceptable and unacceptable behavior so that everyone is clear on what is and is not allowed and doesn't have to depend on vaguely worded standards or "mother may I?" memos to the whims of principals and other administrators which can vary from school to school or district to district.

I work in the education field, in an adjacent sense, and I know how vaguely worded standards tend to operate. It doesn't help anyone to not make standards really clear, and with examples.

We are RPG hobbyists, so saying that we have multiple aspects to our personalities could be the most truthful thing that you have ever said.

As far as, "I work in the education field, in an adjacent sense"....
The last I heard, your education field work consisted of selling caps & gowns for graduation ceremonies - that hardly makes you an expert in education. If you were going to claim expertise, you should have said that you were a parent.

LOL well I do more than that but if you prefer "I am a parent." Of a kid in elementary school in fact.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 04, 2022, 04:40:33 PM
Stop trying to convince jhkim and Misty that instructing children in sexual perversion is wrong. We all know how they think.

Oh, please do tell me what I think? Like, on this topic for example. What is it you think I think on this topic?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 04, 2022, 05:50:59 PM
My intent in bringing up Bambi is simply that I thought it was a well-known example of what's historically considered appropriate for kids. Obviously, it's not a K-3 school lesson, but to discuss, we need commonly-understood examples of what is appropriate.

There is a difference between watching Bambi, which is a non-interactive animated movie that literally has nothing to do with sexuality in theme, and an adult human authority figure with an agenda to inculcate the mind of a child with their specific viewpoint on sexual practices that *they* arbitrarily find "normal" for the express purpose of promoting such.

Thanks for replying, tenbones. I don't see how you can claim that the "twitterpated" sequences have nothing to do with sexuality, though. Maybe you're talking about the movie as a whole, and forgetting about the coming-of-age scenes? I'm speaking about the sequences like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNduKCy6FRs

The scenes are all about becoming romantically interested and pairing off with romantic partners.


Simple solution to this debate.

Tell me why (opponents of this bill) you want to, or think it's needful, to discuss sex, gender, or sexual dynamics with six year old children.

Because historically, children learn about gender, male/female, romantic relationships, and marriage well before six years old. Those topics have never been avoided in school education in prior decades, and it was always acceptable to read something like Beauty and the Beast at story time, for example.

English is a gendered language. We teach kids gender as they are first learning to speak, not in middle school.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 04, 2022, 05:56:01 PM
My intent in bringing up Bambi is simply that I thought it was a well-known example of what's historically considered appropriate for kids. Obviously, it's not a K-3 school lesson, but to discuss, we need commonly-understood examples of what is appropriate.

Maybe it would be helpful for you to bring up actual examples instead of hypotheticals.

Has anything you've brought up in this thread been in the curriculum of K-3 classes?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 04, 2022, 06:03:54 PM
    Part of the problem is there is still a word called NORMAL.  It is not fringe behavior, it is along what is practiced by the mass majority.  I suppose with enough social engineering one day we can just have a new normal.  We already have all kinds of cool words like Cisgendered and heteronormative to use in place of normal.  What will the people of tomorrow call folks like that, "breeders"?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 04, 2022, 06:49:53 PM
Because historically, children learn about gender, male/female, romantic relationships, and marriage well before six years old. Those topics have never been avoided in school education in prior decades, and it was always acceptable to read something like Beauty and the Beast at story time, for example.

English is a gendered language. We teach kids gender as they are first learning to speak, not in middle school.
Citations needed as to why K-3 need explicit instruction in sex and gender at that age beyond basic language (which, I might add, woketards are shitting up anyways with their whines about 'gendered pronouns' and whatnot).

These aren't basic 'this is a boy and this is a girl' instruction, either. We've got teachers insisting it's their nonexistent-deity-granted right to bring drag queens in for storytime.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 04, 2022, 07:01:20 PM
And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

Fuck you, jeff. What I said to Dellaforno's friend is that we're a bunch of assholes here - which is exactly the same thing I say to your face. Most of us here will proudly admit to that. I didn't say anything on Facebook that I don't say here.

The only thing I said just now was that I had gay friends - so you're claiming that having gay friends is being "woke". But I know plenty of libertarian or even conservative folks who have gay friends, or are gay themselves. You can accuse me of being woke over other things, but being gay or having gay friends doesn't mean that someone is woke.

Bullshit.

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.


Is you using your son as a standard bearer to impress upon the reader how socially just your son has been raised by you. It is virtue signalling at its lowest and is woke as Hell.

Meanwhile, you're acting as if the Florida bill prevents explicit sex ed in grades K-3, but that's not what the bill does. It allows any degree of sex ed to kids, as long as it's hetero sex. What it does is ban any discussion of gayness. And my position is there's nothing inappropriate to kids in K-3 about stuff like marriage, parents, growing up, and similar.

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Hey look, it is the other flavor of jell-o!

Nowhere in your quotes, which don't link back to a verified representation of the bill, does it say "don't say gay". Your quotes appear to say that discussion of that subject matter of ANY orientation will not occur.

So thank you for supporting my argument.

Hey Jeff, believe it or not I was not posting to agree or disagree with anyone. If you think those are not the actual quotes from the bill then feel free to google them. All I was doing was trying to be helpful by posting the relevant sections people were discussing so everyone was on the same page for their discussion. The only "position" I've posted on this topic at all is I wish the authors of the bill had been more clear and used specific examples of behavior which is acceptable or not acceptable rather than leaving it to each district and each school to interpret those clauses for themselves, because I've repeatedly seen what poorly phrased vague bills do in the education system and all that does is waste everyone's time.

For instance, I wish the bill said something like, "if the topic of sexuality comes up in the classroom, teachers should refer students to discuss that matter with their parent or guardian rather than discussing it in class." or something like that. Let teachers and parents know what's expected concerning these matters.

Hey Mistwell, believe it or not, I think you are just trying to obfuscate the discussion because you post quotes but do not bother to post a link to where you got those quotes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 04, 2022, 07:58:38 PM
My intent in bringing up Bambi is simply that I thought it was a well-known example of what's historically considered appropriate for kids. Obviously, it's not a K-3 school lesson, but to discuss, we need commonly-understood examples of what is appropriate.

There is a difference between watching Bambi, which is a non-interactive animated movie that literally has nothing to do with sexuality in theme, and an adult human authority figure with an agenda to inculcate the mind of a child with their specific viewpoint on sexual practices that *they* arbitrarily find "normal" for the express purpose of promoting such.

Thanks for replying, tenbones. I don't see how you can claim that the "twitterpated" sequences have nothing to do with sexuality, though. Maybe you're talking about the movie as a whole, and forgetting about the coming-of-age scenes? I'm speaking about the sequences like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNduKCy6FRs

The scenes are all about becoming romantically interested and pairing off with romantic partners.


Simple solution to this debate.

Tell me why (opponents of this bill) you want to, or think it's needful, to discuss sex, gender, or sexual dynamics with six year old children.

Because historically, children learn about gender, male/female, romantic relationships, and marriage well before six years old. Those topics have never been avoided in school education in prior decades, and it was always acceptable to read something like Beauty and the Beast at story time, for example.

English is a gendered language. We teach kids gender as they are first learning to speak, not in middle school.

And also historically they were "thaught" that they could magically change their sex (Gender is an invention of Dr. John Money, a fine example of a pedophile leftard who caused TWO suicides and yet you fools keep on pushing his depravity) and how to insert stuff up their assholes before age six...

Somehow, magically it seems there was a 4000% increase in "transgender" children in the UK. I'm totally sure their teachers didn't push this on them, just like I'm sure the school nurses weren't giving children puberty blockers behind the parent's backs.

I'm still for gay marriage and adults being able to chop whatever part of their body and injecting hormones into their bodies.

But keep your filthy hands away of the children!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 05, 2022, 01:37:58 PM
Back to the grind. This one is interesting.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dartz_irl-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban.895810/

No explanation. BAM, seven day ban.

Dartz_IRL's post, for the curious.
Quote
Okay. Let me get this straight.

So, it turns out that the Russian army have abandoned their dead in the street where they fell. Potentially for weeks. While they occupied places.

Oh.

And they've been denying compensation to the families of those KIA because they were officially still listed as on an exercise, rather than being on a military operation.

Oh

And they've been abandoning front-line units to get ground to meat paste by retreating from behind them without even having the grace to warn them they'll be the rearguard.... they were just too slow so were left to be slaughtered.

Oh

And they've been bulking some units up with as much as 50% conscripts, without telling the higher-ups that they've been doing that. So, it's untrained or barely trained conscripts now being put to the sword.

Oh

And the whole, Go Dig a Trench through the puked up guts of Chernobyl. So now, you have soldiers dead and sick through radiation poisoning.

Oh

And the tank that got flipped off the bridge a few weeks back was finally pulled out of the water by Ukraine. The crew were still inside. Nobody bothered to try rescue them - they just drove off an left them in there. For two weeks.

Oh

And it was all for nothing. Everything waiting at home is worse than when you left for a two week exercise eight weeks ago.

Pretty grim shit if true. But... I'm bemused as to how this justifies a ban. Both Q99 and Zeea were both posting in the thread, and I didn't see any redtext slapdown.

Dawgstar tossed DarkStarling a threadban (which doesn't show up in Infractions, hilariously) for what amounts to 'your posting style is mean'. Wuss.

Then the thread got locked. Miss Atomic Bomb (the same one who whacked Dartz_IRL with that seven day) had this to say:

Quote
We're noticing that most people are discussing the complexities of the situation just fine. But there are two things that are really disruptive: one side basically talking about the poor pitiful war criminal soldiers, and the other side saying that every single person in Russia is undeserving of sympathy and needs to be isolated from the rest of the world. And then that keeps disrupting the conversation and the people making reasonable arguments start getting mad at each other because they can't keep track of who said what.

Because of this and other cycles we want to break, we're keeping this thread closed for about 24 hours.

(Mods log on at varying times of the day, so don't be worried if it's close for slightly longer.)
Which STILL doesn't fit what Dartz was opining (namely, the Russians are treating their own troops like garbage).

But hey, it's TBP. Consistency is not something they follow, like, ever.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 05, 2022, 02:10:22 PM
I'm still for gay marriage and adults being able to chop whatever part of their body and injecting hormones into their bodies.

But keep your filthy hands away of the children!

From my view, the vast majority of LGBT people I know all have stories of being bullied, threatened, and/or beaten up for acting queer when they were children. They were sometimes abused by their peers, thrown out by their parents, and ignored or worse by their teachers. This sort of abuse has been extremely widespread and common.

I know from news reports and surveys that there are also people who were victimized as children by LGBT abusers, and that is just as horrendous, but I don't know personally anyone who had this happen to them. The people I know who were sexually abused are all women who were abused by straight men when they were girls.

I want an end to all this abuse - and as I said, I think the best way to avoid abuse is to educate children to recognize it and speak up when it happens. Everyone in kids' lives should be clear about this to them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 05, 2022, 02:51:15 PM
I'm still for gay marriage and adults being able to chop whatever part of their body and injecting hormones into their bodies.

But keep your filthy hands away of the children!

From my view, the vast majority of LGBT people I know all have stories of being bullied, threatened, and/or beaten up for acting queer when they were children. They were sometimes abused by their peers, thrown out by their parents, and ignored or worse by their teachers. This sort of abuse has been extremely widespread and common.

I know from news reports and surveys that there are also people who were victimized as children by LGBT abusers, and that is just as horrendous, but I don't know personally anyone who had this happen to them. The people I know who were sexually abused are all women who were abused by straight men when they were girls.

I want an end to all this abuse - and as I said, I think the best way to avoid abuse is to educate children to recognize it and speak up when it happens. Everyone in kids' lives should be clear about this to them.

Bolding Mine.

*Raises hand*

Point of clarification here.

1) What do you mean by "acting queer"? Is there a set of behaviors which objectively define that the person exhibiting them are queer? Could you tell us what they are?

2) Are you saying that since you personally do not know of anyone abused by a GBLT that means that the abuse does not exist? Are you saying that since you only personally know women who were abused by straight white men that only straight white men can commit abuse?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 05, 2022, 03:11:32 PM
I'm still for gay marriage and adults being able to chop whatever part of their body and injecting hormones into their bodies.

But keep your filthy hands away of the children!

From my view, the vast majority of LGBT people I know all have stories of being bullied, threatened, and/or beaten up for acting queer when they were children. They were sometimes abused by their peers, thrown out by their parents, and ignored or worse by their teachers. This sort of abuse has been extremely widespread and common.


If teachers are part of the problem, they're not the types we should want instructing K-3 students about sex and orientation.

Even if one thinks they should be doing it at all, which I don't.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 05, 2022, 03:14:30 PM
I'm still for gay marriage and adults being able to chop whatever part of their body and injecting hormones into their bodies.

But keep your filthy hands away of the children!

From my view, the vast majority of LGBT people I know all have stories of being bullied, threatened, and/or beaten up for acting queer when they were children. They were sometimes abused by their peers, thrown out by their parents, and ignored or worse by their teachers. This sort of abuse has been extremely widespread and common.

I know from news reports and surveys that there are also people who were victimized as children by LGBT abusers, and that is just as horrendous, but I don't know personally anyone who had this happen to them. The people I know who were sexually abused are all women who were abused by straight men when they were girls.

I want an end to all this abuse - and as I said, I think the best way to avoid abuse is to educate children to recognize it and speak up when it happens. Everyone in kids' lives should be clear about this to them.

Ergo we should allow groomers to transition children as small as 4.

Like I said, keep your hands of the children.

I don't see how telling autistic boys and girls or gay or lesbian teens that they are trans is a solution to what you claim.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 05, 2022, 03:16:08 PM
I'm still for gay marriage and adults being able to chop whatever part of their body and injecting hormones into their bodies.

But keep your filthy hands away of the children!

From my view, the vast majority of LGBT people I know all have stories of being bullied, threatened, and/or beaten up for acting queer when they were children. They were sometimes abused by their peers, thrown out by their parents, and ignored or worse by their teachers. This sort of abuse has been extremely widespread and common.


If teachers are part of the problem, they're not the types we should want instructing K-3 students about sex and orientation.

Even if one thinks they should be doing it at all, which I don't.

This, and also conflating the activists/"teachers" who pretend to speak for all GLBT people with the whole.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 05, 2022, 03:18:22 PM
My intent in bringing up Bambi is simply that I thought it was a well-known example of what's historically considered appropriate for kids. Obviously, it's not a K-3 school lesson, but to discuss, we need commonly-understood examples of what is appropriate.

Maybe it would be helpful for you to bring up actual examples instead of hypotheticals.

Has anything you've brought up in this thread been in the curriculum of K-3 classes?

I'm not an elementary school teacher, and it's been over 12 years since my son was in K-3, so it's difficult for me to come up with real examples of K-3 lessons on *any* topic. I do know Heather Has Two Mommies has been included in kindergarten lessons, while in other counties it was sued over being included in the school library at all. It was one of my first examples, but I feel like no one has engaged over it.


Citations needed as to why K-3 need explicit instruction in sex and gender at that age beyond basic language (which, I might add, woketards are shitting up anyways with their whines about 'gendered pronouns' and whatnot).

These aren't basic 'this is a boy and this is a girl' instruction, either. We've got teachers insisting it's their nonexistent-deity-granted right to bring drag queens in for storytime.

I haven't argued that it's necessary - but topics like coming-of-age, romance, courtship, marriage, and family are constantly referenced in literature, biographies, and social studies - and they have never been considered inappropriate or banned in the past. I mentioned how it is touched on in many stories that children read. I'd add it also comes up in social studies. For example, kids might read a story about some other culture - like a story of early Lakota life - and discuss how their coming-of-age and families were different.

As for drag queen story time - as far as I can see, the Florida law wouldn't make that illegal. The law only regulates the *topics* discussed. I don't see any restriction on who comes in to read or how they are dressed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 05, 2022, 03:23:28 PM
My intent in bringing up Bambi is simply that I thought it was a well-known example of what's historically considered appropriate for kids. Obviously, it's not a K-3 school lesson, but to discuss, we need commonly-understood examples of what is appropriate.

Maybe it would be helpful for you to bring up actual examples instead of hypotheticals.

Has anything you've brought up in this thread been in the curriculum of K-3 classes?

I'm not an elementary school teacher, and it's been over 12 years since my son was in K-3, so it's difficult for me to come up with real examples of K-3 lessons on *any* topic. I do know Heather Has Two Mommies has been included in kindergarten lessons, while in other counties it was sued over being included in the school library at all. It was one of my first examples, but I feel like no one has engaged over it.

I have not engaged over it, because I don't know what's in the book. I have heard of it, but I think just the title is intentionally provocative.
 That makes it difficult to determine if it's "problematic" or not, or if the bill would apply to it or not.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 05, 2022, 03:49:35 PM
I have not engaged over it, because I don't know what's in the book. I have heard of it, but I think just the title is intentionally provocative.
 That makes it difficult to determine if it's "problematic" or not, or if the bill would apply to it or not.

Below is the link I posted earlier. It requires free sign up to the Internet Archive, but they're not a corporation and I don't think they spam registration. (Also, the Internet Archive has a lot of other great material.)

https://archive.org/details/heatherhastwomom00newm/

The title is pretty descriptive. It's about a girl who has two mothers, and when she goes to school for the first time, she compares her family to the families of other kids - including those who live with their biological parents, and some whose parents are divorced or separated.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 05, 2022, 04:10:27 PM
From my view, the vast majority of LGBT people I know all have stories of being bullied, threatened, and/or beaten up for acting queer when they were children. They were sometimes abused by their peers, thrown out by their parents, and ignored or worse by their teachers. This sort of abuse has been extremely widespread and common.

I know from news reports and surveys that there are also people who were victimized as children by LGBT abusers, and that is just as horrendous, but I don't know personally anyone who had this happen to them. The people I know who were sexually abused are all women who were abused by straight men when they were girls.

I want an end to all this abuse - and as I said, I think the best way to avoid abuse is to educate children to recognize it and speak up when it happens. Everyone in kids' lives should be clear about this to them.

Bolding Mine.

*Raises hand*

Point of clarification here.

1) What do you mean by "acting queer"? Is there a set of behaviors which objectively define that the person exhibiting them are queer? Could you tell us what they are?

2) Are you saying that since you personally do not know of anyone abused by a GBLT that means that the abuse does not exist? Are you saying that since you only personally know women who were abused by straight white men that only straight white men can commit abuse?

Answering #2 first, I think that is addressed in the same sentence as you bolded - where I clearly state that I know it exists based on news reports and other narratives. There are abusers of all different sorts - men, women, white, black, gay, straight. I do not think that banning straight people is a useful step to ending abuse, nor do I think that banning gay people is a useful step to ending abuse. I think abuse should be addressed by targeting the *abuse* and *abusers*.

I believe the overwhelming majority of gay people as well as straight people are opposed to child abuse.

As for what "acting queer" means, I think the most common is not fitting gender stereotypes. For example, if a boy acts "girly", then he may be called a "fag" or "sissy" and bullied for that. This can be anything from having long hair to liking dolls. Is this really outside of your experience? It was extremely standard for me growing up.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on April 05, 2022, 04:13:00 PM
My intent in bringing up Bambi is simply that I thought it was a well-known example of what's historically considered appropriate for kids. Obviously, it's not a K-3 school lesson, but to discuss, we need commonly-understood examples of what is appropriate.

Maybe it would be helpful for you to bring up actual examples instead of hypotheticals.

Has anything you've brought up in this thread been in the curriculum of K-3 classes?

I'm not an elementary school teacher, and it's been over 12 years since my son was in K-3, so it's difficult for me to come up with real examples of K-3 lessons on *any* topic. I do know Heather Has Two Mommies has been included in kindergarten lessons, while in other counties it was sued over being included in the school library at all. It was one of my first examples, but I feel like no one has engaged over it.

I have not engaged over it, because I don't know what's in the book. I have heard of it, but I think just the title is intentionally provocative.
 That makes it difficult to determine if it's "problematic" or not, or if the bill would apply to it or not.
OTOH, I'm sure a title like "Heather Has Two Daddies" could be all sorts of inappropriate for children too without any discussion of gay themes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 05, 2022, 04:59:39 PM
And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

Fuck you, jeff. What I said to Dellaforno's friend is that we're a bunch of assholes here - which is exactly the same thing I say to your face. Most of us here will proudly admit to that. I didn't say anything on Facebook that I don't say here.

The only thing I said just now was that I had gay friends - so you're claiming that having gay friends is being "woke". But I know plenty of libertarian or even conservative folks who have gay friends, or are gay themselves. You can accuse me of being woke over other things, but being gay or having gay friends doesn't mean that someone is woke.

Bullshit.

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.


Is you using your son as a standard bearer to impress upon the reader how socially just your son has been raised by you. It is virtue signalling at its lowest and is woke as Hell.

Meanwhile, you're acting as if the Florida bill prevents explicit sex ed in grades K-3, but that's not what the bill does. It allows any degree of sex ed to kids, as long as it's hetero sex. What it does is ban any discussion of gayness. And my position is there's nothing inappropriate to kids in K-3 about stuff like marriage, parents, growing up, and similar.

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Hey look, it is the other flavor of jell-o!

Nowhere in your quotes, which don't link back to a verified representation of the bill, does it say "don't say gay". Your quotes appear to say that discussion of that subject matter of ANY orientation will not occur.

So thank you for supporting my argument.

Hey Jeff, believe it or not I was not posting to agree or disagree with anyone. If you think those are not the actual quotes from the bill then feel free to google them. All I was doing was trying to be helpful by posting the relevant sections people were discussing so everyone was on the same page for their discussion. The only "position" I've posted on this topic at all is I wish the authors of the bill had been more clear and used specific examples of behavior which is acceptable or not acceptable rather than leaving it to each district and each school to interpret those clauses for themselves, because I've repeatedly seen what poorly phrased vague bills do in the education system and all that does is waste everyone's time.

For instance, I wish the bill said something like, "if the topic of sexuality comes up in the classroom, teachers should refer students to discuss that matter with their parent or guardian rather than discussing it in class." or something like that. Let teachers and parents know what's expected concerning these matters.

Hey Mistwell, believe it or not, I think you are just trying to obfuscate the discussion because you post quotes but do not bother to post a link to where you got those quotes.

LOL I got them directly from the bill. I am not obfuscating anything. I didn't think you wanted to pour through walls of text but here you go. Knock yourself out. Also, you're welcome. Sorry your Google is broken:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 05, 2022, 05:07:13 PM
Back to the grind. This one is interesting.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dartz_irl-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban.895810/

No explanation. BAM, seven day ban.

Dartz_IRL's post, for the curious.
Quote
Okay. Let me get this straight.

So, it turns out that the Russian army have abandoned their dead in the street where they fell. Potentially for weeks. While they occupied places.

Oh.

And they've been denying compensation to the families of those KIA because they were officially still listed as on an exercise, rather than being on a military operation.

Oh

And they've been abandoning front-line units to get ground to meat paste by retreating from behind them without even having the grace to warn them they'll be the rearguard.... they were just too slow so were left to be slaughtered.

Oh

And they've been bulking some units up with as much as 50% conscripts, without telling the higher-ups that they've been doing that. So, it's untrained or barely trained conscripts now being put to the sword.

Oh

And the whole, Go Dig a Trench through the puked up guts of Chernobyl. So now, you have soldiers dead and sick through radiation poisoning.

Oh

And the tank that got flipped off the bridge a few weeks back was finally pulled out of the water by Ukraine. The crew were still inside. Nobody bothered to try rescue them - they just drove off an left them in there. For two weeks.

Oh

And it was all for nothing. Everything waiting at home is worse than when you left for a two week exercise eight weeks ago.

Pretty grim shit if true. But... I'm bemused as to how this justifies a ban. Both Q99 and Zeea were both posting in the thread, and I didn't see any redtext slapdown.

Dawgstar tossed DarkStarling a threadban (which doesn't show up in Infractions, hilariously) for what amounts to 'your posting style is mean'. Wuss.

Then the thread got locked. Miss Atomic Bomb (the same one who whacked Dartz_IRL with that seven day) had this to say:

Quote
We're noticing that most people are discussing the complexities of the situation just fine. But there are two things that are really disruptive: one side basically talking about the poor pitiful war criminal soldiers, and the other side saying that every single person in Russia is undeserving of sympathy and needs to be isolated from the rest of the world. And then that keeps disrupting the conversation and the people making reasonable arguments start getting mad at each other because they can't keep track of who said what.

Because of this and other cycles we want to break, we're keeping this thread closed for about 24 hours.

(Mods log on at varying times of the day, so don't be worried if it's close for slightly longer.)
Which STILL doesn't fit what Dartz was opining (namely, the Russians are treating their own troops like garbage).

But hey, it's TBP. Consistency is not something they follow, like, ever.


On the one hand, this moderator behavior is utterly baffling as you rightly point out.

On the other hand, just about all moderator behavior at TBP is utterly baffling and I shouldn't be surprised.

But I am. Every time, I remain baffled that their moderator stuff can be this devoid of reason.

I mean, are they trying to argue that Russians treating their own troops like crap is somehow voicing sympathy for Russian troops who don't deserve sympathy, even though it's simultaneously bashing Russia for treating their troops like crap?

Just...I can't even.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 05, 2022, 05:17:17 PM
From my view, the vast majority of LGBT people I know all have stories of being bullied, threatened, and/or beaten up for acting queer when they were children. They were sometimes abused by their peers, thrown out by their parents, and ignored or worse by their teachers. This sort of abuse has been extremely widespread and common.

I know from news reports and surveys that there are also people who were victimized as children by LGBT abusers, and that is just as horrendous, but I don't know personally anyone who had this happen to them. The people I know who were sexually abused are all women who were abused by straight men when they were girls.

I want an end to all this abuse - and as I said, I think the best way to avoid abuse is to educate children to recognize it and speak up when it happens. Everyone in kids' lives should be clear about this to them.

Bolding Mine.

*Raises hand*

Point of clarification here.

1) What do you mean by "acting queer"? Is there a set of behaviors which objectively define that the person exhibiting them are queer? Could you tell us what they are?

2) Are you saying that since you personally do not know of anyone abused by a GBLT that means that the abuse does not exist? Are you saying that since you only personally know women who were abused by straight white men that only straight white men can commit abuse?

Answering #2 first, I think that is addressed in the same sentence as you bolded - where I clearly state that I know it exists based on news reports and other narratives. There are abusers of all different sorts - men, women, white, black, gay, straight. I do not think that banning straight people is a useful step to ending abuse, nor do I think that banning gay people is a useful step to ending abuse. I think abuse should be addressed by targeting the *abuse* and *abusers*.

I believe the overwhelming majority of gay people as well as straight people are opposed to child abuse.

Except NAMBLA defines itself as a gay community. Is grooming thus not abuse? How about children who are given hormones or hormone blockers by their parents to alter their growth, is that not abuse?

You have to agree that what a legal adult does to themselves is their own business, but a child is not a legal adult.

As for what "acting queer" means, I think the most common is not fitting gender stereotypes. For example, if a boy acts "girly", then he may be called a "fag" or "sissy" and bullied for that. This can be anything from having long hair to liking dolls. Is this really outside of your experience? It was extremely standard for me growing up.

So you admit that you do not have knowledge of a set of behaviors which objectively define that the person exhibiting them are queer. Thank you for being honest for once.

This is why I was telling you to knock it off. By supporting the fringe elements and not the mainstream of the GBLT community, you are loosing this part of the culture war. By lying about the Florida bill, you are undermining what gains have been achieved.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 05, 2022, 05:20:15 PM
And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

Fuck you, jeff. What I said to Dellaforno's friend is that we're a bunch of assholes here - which is exactly the same thing I say to your face. Most of us here will proudly admit to that. I didn't say anything on Facebook that I don't say here.

The only thing I said just now was that I had gay friends - so you're claiming that having gay friends is being "woke". But I know plenty of libertarian or even conservative folks who have gay friends, or are gay themselves. You can accuse me of being woke over other things, but being gay or having gay friends doesn't mean that someone is woke.

Bullshit.

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.


Is you using your son as a standard bearer to impress upon the reader how socially just your son has been raised by you. It is virtue signalling at its lowest and is woke as Hell.

Meanwhile, you're acting as if the Florida bill prevents explicit sex ed in grades K-3, but that's not what the bill does. It allows any degree of sex ed to kids, as long as it's hetero sex. What it does is ban any discussion of gayness. And my position is there's nothing inappropriate to kids in K-3 about stuff like marriage, parents, growing up, and similar.

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Hey look, it is the other flavor of jell-o!

Nowhere in your quotes, which don't link back to a verified representation of the bill, does it say "don't say gay". Your quotes appear to say that discussion of that subject matter of ANY orientation will not occur.

So thank you for supporting my argument.

Hey Jeff, believe it or not I was not posting to agree or disagree with anyone. If you think those are not the actual quotes from the bill then feel free to google them. All I was doing was trying to be helpful by posting the relevant sections people were discussing so everyone was on the same page for their discussion. The only "position" I've posted on this topic at all is I wish the authors of the bill had been more clear and used specific examples of behavior which is acceptable or not acceptable rather than leaving it to each district and each school to interpret those clauses for themselves, because I've repeatedly seen what poorly phrased vague bills do in the education system and all that does is waste everyone's time.

For instance, I wish the bill said something like, "if the topic of sexuality comes up in the classroom, teachers should refer students to discuss that matter with their parent or guardian rather than discussing it in class." or something like that. Let teachers and parents know what's expected concerning these matters.

Hey Mistwell, believe it or not, I think you are just trying to obfuscate the discussion because you post quotes but do not bother to post a link to where you got those quotes.

LOL I got them directly from the bill. I am not obfuscating anything. I didn't think you wanted to pour through walls of text but here you go. Knock yourself out. Also, you're welcome. Sorry your Google is broken:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF

And nowhere within that bill does it say, "Don't say gay."

Sorry your reading comprehension is broken.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 05, 2022, 05:31:10 PM
And since it keeps coming up and people keep not reading it, here it is!

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF

Quote from: Florida bill
ENROLLED
CS/CS/HB 1557, Engrossed 1 2022 Legislature
CODING: Words stricken are deletions; words underlined are additions.
hb1557-04-er
Page 1 of 7
F L O R I D A H O U S E O F R E P R E S E N T A T I V E S
1
2 An act relating to parental rights in education;
3 amending s. 1001.42, F.S.; requiring district school
4 boards to adopt procedures that comport with certain
5 provisions of law for notifying a student's parent of
6 specified information; requiring such procedures to
7 reinforce the fundamental right of parents to make
8 decisions regarding the upbringing and control of
9 their children in a specified manner; prohibiting the
10 procedures from prohibiting a parent from accessing
11 certain records; providing construction; prohibiting a
12 school district from adopting procedures or student
13 support forms that prohibit school district personnel
14 from notifying a parent about specified information or
15 that encourage or have the effect of encouraging a
16 student to withhold from a parent such information;
17 prohibiting school district personnel from
18 discouraging or prohibiting parental notification and
19 involvement in critical decisions affecting a
20 student's mental, emotional, or physical well-being;
21 providing construction; prohibiting classroom
22 discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity
23 in certain grade levels or in a specified manner;
24 requiring certain training developed or provided by a
25 school district to adhere to standards established by

ENROLLED
CS/CS/HB 1557, Engrossed 1 2022 Legislature
CODING: Words stricken are deletions; words underlined are additions.
hb1557-04-er
Page 2 of 7
F L O R I D A H O U S E O F R E P R E S E N T A T I V E S
26 the Department of Education; requiring school
27 districts to notify parents of healthcare services and
28 provide parents the opportunity to consent or decline
29 such services; providing that a specified parental
30 consent does not wave certain parental rights;
31 requiring school districts to provide parents with
32 certain questionnaires or health screening forms and
33 obtain parental permission before administering such
34 questionnaires and forms; requiring school districts
35 to adopt certain procedures for resolving specified
36 parental concerns; requiring resolution within a
37 specified timeframe; requiring the Commissioner of
38 Education to appoint a special magistrate for
39 unresolved concerns; providing requirements for the
40 special magistrate; requiring the State Board of
41 Education to approve or reject the special
42 magistrate's recommendation within specified
43 timeframe; requiring school districts to bear the
44 costs of the special magistrate; requiring the State
45 Board of Education to adopt rules; providing
46 requirements for such rules; authorizing a parent to
47 bring an action against a school district to obtain a
48 declaratory judgment that a school district procedure
49 or practice violates certain provisions of law;
50 providing for the additional award of injunctive

ENROLLED
CS/CS/HB 1557, Engrossed 1 2022 Legislature
CODING: Words stricken are deletions; words underlined are additions.
hb1557-04-er
Page 3 of 7
F L O R I D A H O U S E O F R E P R E S E N T A T I V E S
51 relief, damages, and reasonable attorney fees and
52 court costs to certain parents; requiring school
53 district to adopt policies to notify parents of
54 certain rights; providing construction; requiring the
55 department to review and update, as necessary,
56 specified materials by a certain date; providing an
57 effective date.
58
59 Be It Enacted by the Legislature of the State of Florida:
60
61 Section 1. Paragraph (c) is added to subsection (8) of
62 section 1001.42, Florida Statutes, to read:
63 1001.42 Powers and duties of district school board.—The
64 district school board, acting as a board, shall exercise all
65 powers and perform all duties listed below:
66 (8) STUDENT WELFARE.—
67 (c)1. In accordance with the rights of parents enumerated
68 in ss. 1002.20 and 1014.04, adopt procedures for notifying a
69 student's parent if there is a change in the student's services
70 or monitoring related to the student's mental, emotional, or
71 physical health or well-being and the school's ability to
72 provide a safe and supportive learning environment for the
73 student. The procedures must reinforce the fundamental right of
74 parents to make decisions regarding the upbringing and control
75 of their children by requiring school district personnel to

ENROLLED
CS/CS/HB 1557, Engrossed 1 2022 Legislature
CODING: Words stricken are deletions; words underlined are additions.
hb1557-04-er
Page 4 of 7
F L O R I D A H O U S E O F R E P R E S E N T A T I V E S
76 encourage a student to discuss issues relating to his or her
77 well-being with his or her parent or to facilitate discussion of
78 the issue with the parent. The procedures may not prohibit
79 parents from accessing any of their student's education and
80 health records created, maintained, or used by the school
81 district, as required by s. 1002.22(2).
82 2. A school district may not adopt procedures or student
83 support forms that prohibit school district personnel from
84 notifying a parent about his or her student's mental, emotional,
85 or physical health or well-being, or a change in related
86 services or monitoring, or that encourage or have the effect of
87 encouraging a student to withhold from a parent such
88 information. School district personnel may not discourage or
89 prohibit parental notification of and involvement in critical
90 decisions affecting a student's mental, emotional, or physical
91 health or well-being. This subparagraph does not prohibit a
92 school district from adopting procedures that permit school
93 personnel to withhold such information from a parent if a
94 reasonably prudent person would believe that disclosure would
95 result in abuse, abandonment, or neglect, as those terms are
96 defined in s. 39.01.
97 3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third
98 parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur
99 in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age
100 appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in

ENROLLED
CS/CS/HB 1557, Engrossed 1 2022 Legislature
CODING: Words stricken are deletions; words underlined are additions.
hb1557-04-er
Page 5 of 7
F L O R I D A H O U S E O F R E P R E S E N T A T I V E S
101 accordance with state standards.
102 4. Student support services training developed or provided
103 by a school district to school district personnel must adhere to
104 student services guidelines, standards, and frameworks
105 established by the Department of Education.
106 5. At the beginning of the school year, each school
107 district shall notify parents of each healthcare service offered
108 at their student's school and the option to withhold consent or
109 decline any specific service. Parental consent to a health care
110 service does not waive the parent's right to access his or her
111 student's educational or health records or to be notified about
112 a change in his or her student's services or monitoring as
113 provided by this paragraph.
114 6. Before administering a student well-being questionnaire
115 or health screening form to a student in kindergarten through
116 grade 3, the school district must provide the questionnaire or
117 health screening form to the parent and obtain the permission of
118 the parent.
119 7. Each school district shall adopt procedures for a
120 parent to notify the principal, or his or her designee,
121 regarding concerns under this paragraph at his or her student's
122 school and the process for resolving those concerns within 7
123 calendar days after notification by the parent.
124 a. At a minimum, the procedures must require that within
125 30 days after notification by the parent that the concern

ENROLLED
CS/CS/HB 1557, Engrossed 1 2022 Legislature
CODING: Words stricken are deletions; words underlined are additions.
hb1557-04-er
Page 6 of 7
F L O R I D A H O U S E O F R E P R E S E N T A T I V E S
126 remains unresolved, the school district must either resolve the
127 concern or provide a statement of the reasons for not resolving
128 the concern.
129 b. If a concern is not resolved by the school district, a
130 parent may:
131 (I) Request the Commissioner of Education to appoint a
132 special magistrate who is a member of The Florida Bar in good
133 standing and who has at least 5 years' experience in
134 administrative law. The special magistrate shall determine facts
135 relating to the dispute over the school district procedure or
136 practice, consider information provided by the school district,
137 and render a recommended decision for resolution to the State
138 Board of Education within 30 days after receipt of the request
139 by the parent. The State Board of Education must approve or
140 reject the recommended decision at its next regularly scheduled
141 meeting that is more than 7 calendar days and no more than 30
142 days after the date the recommended decision is transmitted. The
143 costs of the special magistrate shall be borne by the school
144 district. The State Board of Education shall adopt rules,
145 including forms, necessary to implement this subparagraph.
146 (II) Bring an action against the school district to obtain
147 a declaratory judgment that the school district procedure or
148 practice violates this paragraph and seek injunctive relief. A
149 court may award damages and shall award reasonable attorney fees
150 and court costs to a parent who receives declaratory or

ENROLLED
CS/CS/HB 1557, Engrossed 1 2022 Legislature
CODING: Words stricken are deletions; words underlined are additions.
hb1557-04-er
Page 7 of 7
F L O R I D A H O U S E O F R E P R E S E N T A T I V E S
151 injunctive relief.
152 c. Each school district shall adopt policies to notify
153 parents of the procedures required under this subparagraph.
154 d. Nothing contained in this subparagraph shall be
155 construed to abridge or alter rights of action or remedies in
156 equity already existing under the common law or general law.
157 Section 2. By June 30, 2023, the Department of Education
158 shall review and update, as necessary, school counseling
159 frameworks and standards; educator practices and professional
160 conduct principles; and any other student services personnel
161 guidelines, standards, or frameworks in accordance with the
162 requirements of this act.
163 Section 3. This act shall take effect July 1, 2022.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 05, 2022, 05:33:48 PM
I have not engaged over it, because I don't know what's in the book. I have heard of it, but I think just the title is intentionally provocative.
 That makes it difficult to determine if it's "problematic" or not, or if the bill would apply to it or not.

Below is the link I posted earlier. It requires free sign up to the Internet Archive, but they're not a corporation and I don't think they spam registration. (Also, the Internet Archive has a lot of other great material.)

https://archive.org/details/heatherhastwomom00newm/

The title is pretty descriptive. It's about a girl who has two mothers, and when she goes to school for the first time, she compares her family to the families of other kids - including those who live with their biological parents, and some whose parents are divorced or separated.

Yeah, I get enough spam. I'd rather not risk it.
If that's the only relevant example you have, and we're not even sure that it's a problem or not yet, then I think that conversation is stalled.

I think the activist bunch have managed to antagonize parents enough to get a bill like this passed. Literally by saying things like "We're coming for your children, and there's nothing you can do about it." (https://www.foxnews.com/us/san-francisco-gay-mens-chorus-your-children) And now the activist community are pissed off that they got the reaction they wanted.



Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 05, 2022, 07:24:00 PM
And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

Fuck you, jeff. What I said to Dellaforno's friend is that we're a bunch of assholes here - which is exactly the same thing I say to your face. Most of us here will proudly admit to that. I didn't say anything on Facebook that I don't say here.

The only thing I said just now was that I had gay friends - so you're claiming that having gay friends is being "woke". But I know plenty of libertarian or even conservative folks who have gay friends, or are gay themselves. You can accuse me of being woke over other things, but being gay or having gay friends doesn't mean that someone is woke.

Bullshit.

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.


Is you using your son as a standard bearer to impress upon the reader how socially just your son has been raised by you. It is virtue signalling at its lowest and is woke as Hell.

Meanwhile, you're acting as if the Florida bill prevents explicit sex ed in grades K-3, but that's not what the bill does. It allows any degree of sex ed to kids, as long as it's hetero sex. What it does is ban any discussion of gayness. And my position is there's nothing inappropriate to kids in K-3 about stuff like marriage, parents, growing up, and similar.

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Hey look, it is the other flavor of jell-o!

Nowhere in your quotes, which don't link back to a verified representation of the bill, does it say "don't say gay". Your quotes appear to say that discussion of that subject matter of ANY orientation will not occur.

So thank you for supporting my argument.

Hey Jeff, believe it or not I was not posting to agree or disagree with anyone. If you think those are not the actual quotes from the bill then feel free to google them. All I was doing was trying to be helpful by posting the relevant sections people were discussing so everyone was on the same page for their discussion. The only "position" I've posted on this topic at all is I wish the authors of the bill had been more clear and used specific examples of behavior which is acceptable or not acceptable rather than leaving it to each district and each school to interpret those clauses for themselves, because I've repeatedly seen what poorly phrased vague bills do in the education system and all that does is waste everyone's time.

For instance, I wish the bill said something like, "if the topic of sexuality comes up in the classroom, teachers should refer students to discuss that matter with their parent or guardian rather than discussing it in class." or something like that. Let teachers and parents know what's expected concerning these matters.

Hey Mistwell, believe it or not, I think you are just trying to obfuscate the discussion because you post quotes but do not bother to post a link to where you got those quotes.

LOL I got them directly from the bill. I am not obfuscating anything. I didn't think you wanted to pour through walls of text but here you go. Knock yourself out. Also, you're welcome. Sorry your Google is broken:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF

And nowhere within that bill does it say, "Don't say gay."

Sorry your reading comprehension is broken.

Oh that's rich! Tell me Jeff, where have I ever said the bill said "Don't say gay?"

You literally have no idea what my position is on this topic. You've simply decided I have an opinion I don't have and have never said or even implied I had.

Ask yourself why you did that Jeff? Just be honest with yourself. WHY did you think I had said the bill says "don't say gay?" What could have led you to accuse me of having bad reading comprehension when you just demonstrated with 100% objective crystal clear proof for all to see that you indeed did not read or comprehend ANYTHING I've said about that topic?

We're on the same side on this topic Jeff, with the one minor quibble being I wish they had written the law better with examples. But you apparently could not conceive of that possibility, and so I guess just made up an opinion for me?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 05, 2022, 07:38:43 PM
And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

Fuck you, jeff. What I said to Dellaforno's friend is that we're a bunch of assholes here - which is exactly the same thing I say to your face. Most of us here will proudly admit to that. I didn't say anything on Facebook that I don't say here.

The only thing I said just now was that I had gay friends - so you're claiming that having gay friends is being "woke". But I know plenty of libertarian or even conservative folks who have gay friends, or are gay themselves. You can accuse me of being woke over other things, but being gay or having gay friends doesn't mean that someone is woke.

Bullshit.

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.


Is you using your son as a standard bearer to impress upon the reader how socially just your son has been raised by you. It is virtue signalling at its lowest and is woke as Hell.

Meanwhile, you're acting as if the Florida bill prevents explicit sex ed in grades K-3, but that's not what the bill does. It allows any degree of sex ed to kids, as long as it's hetero sex. What it does is ban any discussion of gayness. And my position is there's nothing inappropriate to kids in K-3 about stuff like marriage, parents, growing up, and similar.

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Hey look, it is the other flavor of jell-o!

Nowhere in your quotes, which don't link back to a verified representation of the bill, does it say "don't say gay". Your quotes appear to say that discussion of that subject matter of ANY orientation will not occur.

So thank you for supporting my argument.

Hey Jeff, believe it or not I was not posting to agree or disagree with anyone. If you think those are not the actual quotes from the bill then feel free to google them. All I was doing was trying to be helpful by posting the relevant sections people were discussing so everyone was on the same page for their discussion. The only "position" I've posted on this topic at all is I wish the authors of the bill had been more clear and used specific examples of behavior which is acceptable or not acceptable rather than leaving it to each district and each school to interpret those clauses for themselves, because I've repeatedly seen what poorly phrased vague bills do in the education system and all that does is waste everyone's time.

For instance, I wish the bill said something like, "if the topic of sexuality comes up in the classroom, teachers should refer students to discuss that matter with their parent or guardian rather than discussing it in class." or something like that. Let teachers and parents know what's expected concerning these matters.

Hey Mistwell, believe it or not, I think you are just trying to obfuscate the discussion because you post quotes but do not bother to post a link to where you got those quotes.

LOL I got them directly from the bill. I am not obfuscating anything. I didn't think you wanted to pour through walls of text but here you go. Knock yourself out. Also, you're welcome. Sorry your Google is broken:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF

And nowhere within that bill does it say, "Don't say gay."

Sorry your reading comprehension is broken.

Oh that's rich! Tell me Jeff, where have I ever said the bill said "Don't say gay?"

You literally have no idea what my position is on this topic. You've simply decided I have an opinion I don't have and have never said or even implied I had.

Ask yourself why you did that Jeff? Just be honest with yourself. WHY did you think I had said the bill says "don't say gay?" What could have led you to accuse me of having bad reading comprehension when you just demonstrated with 100% objective crystal clear proof for all to see that you indeed did not read or comprehend ANYTHING I've said about that topic?

We're on the same side on this topic Jeff, with the one minor quibble being I wish they had written the law better with examples. But you apparently could not conceive of that possibility, and so I guess just made up an opinion for me?

Methinks thou dost protest too much....

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on April 05, 2022, 08:35:25 PM
I think the activist bunch have managed to antagonize parents enough to get a bill like this passed. Literally by saying things like "We're coming for your children, and there's nothing you can do about it." (https://www.foxnews.com/us/san-francisco-gay-mens-chorus-your-children) And now the activist community are pissed off that they got the reaction they wanted.

Thats probably the best part, when the Oughtists suck up to the whacky fringe groomers the smack back is going to be epic
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 05, 2022, 09:17:53 PM
Greetings!

I remember reading about how in a city in Brazil, a kid-fucker was caught by the parents, supported by huge numbers of the local community. For raping and victimizing a young child, the filthy pedophile was savagely beaten, and then staked down and burned alive. The members of the community didn't shy away, but all remained vigilant and vocal while the filthy pedophile screamed and died. Local law enforcement officers standing by watched and applauded the community. The local members of the community feel that communities must be kept clean from evil, depraved filth.

Yes. There are many pedophiles here in America that need to be cleansed from the community. Families and parents have the right to have their children be safe. People that insist on brainwashing, "Grooming" and molesting children will get what's coming to them.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 05, 2022, 09:30:15 PM
And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

Fuck you, jeff. What I said to Dellaforno's friend is that we're a bunch of assholes here - which is exactly the same thing I say to your face. Most of us here will proudly admit to that. I didn't say anything on Facebook that I don't say here.

The only thing I said just now was that I had gay friends - so you're claiming that having gay friends is being "woke". But I know plenty of libertarian or even conservative folks who have gay friends, or are gay themselves. You can accuse me of being woke over other things, but being gay or having gay friends doesn't mean that someone is woke.

Bullshit.

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.


Is you using your son as a standard bearer to impress upon the reader how socially just your son has been raised by you. It is virtue signalling at its lowest and is woke as Hell.

Meanwhile, you're acting as if the Florida bill prevents explicit sex ed in grades K-3, but that's not what the bill does. It allows any degree of sex ed to kids, as long as it's hetero sex. What it does is ban any discussion of gayness. And my position is there's nothing inappropriate to kids in K-3 about stuff like marriage, parents, growing up, and similar.

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Hey look, it is the other flavor of jell-o!

Nowhere in your quotes, which don't link back to a verified representation of the bill, does it say "don't say gay". Your quotes appear to say that discussion of that subject matter of ANY orientation will not occur.

So thank you for supporting my argument.

Hey Jeff, believe it or not I was not posting to agree or disagree with anyone. If you think those are not the actual quotes from the bill then feel free to google them. All I was doing was trying to be helpful by posting the relevant sections people were discussing so everyone was on the same page for their discussion. The only "position" I've posted on this topic at all is I wish the authors of the bill had been more clear and used specific examples of behavior which is acceptable or not acceptable rather than leaving it to each district and each school to interpret those clauses for themselves, because I've repeatedly seen what poorly phrased vague bills do in the education system and all that does is waste everyone's time.

For instance, I wish the bill said something like, "if the topic of sexuality comes up in the classroom, teachers should refer students to discuss that matter with their parent or guardian rather than discussing it in class." or something like that. Let teachers and parents know what's expected concerning these matters.

Hey Mistwell, believe it or not, I think you are just trying to obfuscate the discussion because you post quotes but do not bother to post a link to where you got those quotes.

LOL I got them directly from the bill. I am not obfuscating anything. I didn't think you wanted to pour through walls of text but here you go. Knock yourself out. Also, you're welcome. Sorry your Google is broken:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF

And nowhere within that bill does it say, "Don't say gay."

Sorry your reading comprehension is broken.

Oh that's rich! Tell me Jeff, where have I ever said the bill said "Don't say gay?"

You literally have no idea what my position is on this topic. You've simply decided I have an opinion I don't have and have never said or even implied I had.

Ask yourself why you did that Jeff? Just be honest with yourself. WHY did you think I had said the bill says "don't say gay?" What could have led you to accuse me of having bad reading comprehension when you just demonstrated with 100% objective crystal clear proof for all to see that you indeed did not read or comprehend ANYTHING I've said about that topic?

We're on the same side on this topic Jeff, with the one minor quibble being I wish they had written the law better with examples. But you apparently could not conceive of that possibility, and so I guess just made up an opinion for me?

Methinks thou dost protest too much....

You're literally arguing if I call you on blatantly lying about what I said that I must be lying for protesting that you lied about what I said?

That's both circular logic AND unethical! A double play!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 06, 2022, 12:20:48 AM
Answering #2 first, I think that is addressed in the same sentence as you bolded - where I clearly state that I know it exists based on news reports and other narratives. There are abusers of all different sorts - men, women, white, black, gay, straight. I do not think that banning straight people is a useful step to ending abuse, nor do I think that banning gay people is a useful step to ending abuse. I think abuse should be addressed by targeting the *abuse* and *abusers*.

I believe the overwhelming majority of gay people as well as straight people are opposed to child abuse.

Except NAMBLA defines itself as a gay community. Is grooming thus not abuse? How about children who are given hormones or hormone blockers by their parents to alter their growth, is that not abuse?

You have to agree that what a legal adult does to themselves is their own business, but a child is not a legal adult.

I don't see what your point is about NAMBLA. The overwhelming majority of gay people hate NAMBLA, just like the overwhelming majority of straight people hate Jeffrey Epstein and his organization. One can't generalize about NAMBLA to all gay people any more than one can generalize from Epstein to all straight people.

Actual sexual predators don't advertise what they're doing or act radical. Typically, they try to look like ordinary, decent people just like everyone else. That's how they get away it. Catching them and prosecuting them is overwhelmingly a matter of getting kids to come forward, and training adults in seeing the signs of such abuse.


EDITED TO ADD: Anita Bryant's 1970s campaign of "Save Our Children" was aimed mainly at getting teachers and others fired for being openly gay. But in the fifty years since then, investigating Catholic priests and scout master caught far more sexual predators than the supposed "Save Our Children". The point is the predators hide, and catching them means actual investigation and prosecution. I want to see real predators caught and dealt with.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on April 06, 2022, 12:41:16 AM
You're literally arguing if I call you on blatantly lying about what I said that I must be lying for protesting that you lied about what I said?

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/335/192/b62.jpg)

Sorry I just had to    ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 06, 2022, 04:18:13 AM
And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

Fuck you, jeff. What I said to Dellaforno's friend is that we're a bunch of assholes here - which is exactly the same thing I say to your face. Most of us here will proudly admit to that. I didn't say anything on Facebook that I don't say here.

The only thing I said just now was that I had gay friends - so you're claiming that having gay friends is being "woke". But I know plenty of libertarian or even conservative folks who have gay friends, or are gay themselves. You can accuse me of being woke over other things, but being gay or having gay friends doesn't mean that someone is woke.

Bullshit.

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.


Is you using your son as a standard bearer to impress upon the reader how socially just your son has been raised by you. It is virtue signalling at its lowest and is woke as Hell.

Meanwhile, you're acting as if the Florida bill prevents explicit sex ed in grades K-3, but that's not what the bill does. It allows any degree of sex ed to kids, as long as it's hetero sex. What it does is ban any discussion of gayness. And my position is there's nothing inappropriate to kids in K-3 about stuff like marriage, parents, growing up, and similar.

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Hey look, it is the other flavor of jell-o!

Nowhere in your quotes, which don't link back to a verified representation of the bill, does it say "don't say gay". Your quotes appear to say that discussion of that subject matter of ANY orientation will not occur.

So thank you for supporting my argument.

Hey Jeff, believe it or not I was not posting to agree or disagree with anyone. If you think those are not the actual quotes from the bill then feel free to google them. All I was doing was trying to be helpful by posting the relevant sections people were discussing so everyone was on the same page for their discussion. The only "position" I've posted on this topic at all is I wish the authors of the bill had been more clear and used specific examples of behavior which is acceptable or not acceptable rather than leaving it to each district and each school to interpret those clauses for themselves, because I've repeatedly seen what poorly phrased vague bills do in the education system and all that does is waste everyone's time.

For instance, I wish the bill said something like, "if the topic of sexuality comes up in the classroom, teachers should refer students to discuss that matter with their parent or guardian rather than discussing it in class." or something like that. Let teachers and parents know what's expected concerning these matters.

Hey Mistwell, believe it or not, I think you are just trying to obfuscate the discussion because you post quotes but do not bother to post a link to where you got those quotes.

LOL I got them directly from the bill. I am not obfuscating anything. I didn't think you wanted to pour through walls of text but here you go. Knock yourself out. Also, you're welcome. Sorry your Google is broken:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF

And nowhere within that bill does it say, "Don't say gay."

Sorry your reading comprehension is broken.

Oh that's rich! Tell me Jeff, where have I ever said the bill said "Don't say gay?"

You literally have no idea what my position is on this topic. You've simply decided I have an opinion I don't have and have never said or even implied I had.

Ask yourself why you did that Jeff? Just be honest with yourself. WHY did you think I had said the bill says "don't say gay?" What could have led you to accuse me of having bad reading comprehension when you just demonstrated with 100% objective crystal clear proof for all to see that you indeed did not read or comprehend ANYTHING I've said about that topic?

We're on the same side on this topic Jeff, with the one minor quibble being I wish they had written the law better with examples. But you apparently could not conceive of that possibility, and so I guess just made up an opinion for me?

Methinks thou dost protest too much....

You're literally arguing if I call you on blatantly lying about what I said that I must be lying for protesting that you lied about what I said?

That's both circular logic AND unethical! A double play!

Misrepresenting yourself has been your modus operendi for about a decade now. You just squeel when you get caught at it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 06, 2022, 04:20:34 AM
Answering #2 first, I think that is addressed in the same sentence as you bolded - where I clearly state that I know it exists based on news reports and other narratives. There are abusers of all different sorts - men, women, white, black, gay, straight. I do not think that banning straight people is a useful step to ending abuse, nor do I think that banning gay people is a useful step to ending abuse. I think abuse should be addressed by targeting the *abuse* and *abusers*.

I believe the overwhelming majority of gay people as well as straight people are opposed to child abuse.

Except NAMBLA defines itself as a gay community. Is grooming thus not abuse? How about children who are given hormones or hormone blockers by their parents to alter their growth, is that not abuse?

You have to agree that what a legal adult does to themselves is their own business, but a child is not a legal adult.

I don't see what your point is about NAMBLA. The overwhelming majority of gay people hate NAMBLA, just like the overwhelming majority of straight people hate Jeffrey Epstein and his organization. One can't generalize about NAMBLA to all gay people any more than one can generalize from Epstein to all straight people.


Likewise, I don't see why you oppose the Florida bill if that is what you truly believe.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 06, 2022, 08:20:21 AM
EDITED TO ADD: Anita Bryant's 1970s campaign of "Save Our Children" was aimed mainly at getting teachers and others fired for being openly gay. But in the fifty years since then, investigating Catholic priests and scout master caught far more sexual predators than the supposed "Save Our Children". The point is the predators hide, and catching them means actual investigation and prosecution. I want to see real predators caught and dealt with.
Except that statistically, the numbers of predators were far greater among teachers (especially public school teachers) than they were among the Catholic church or the Scouts.

I won't excuse the latter, especially as the church's response was so bad it should've kicked off another full blown schism or Reformation.

However, the church and the Scouts did not enjoy the media protections and union shielding that the teachers did.

(I'm not going to get into the question raised about WHY it was considered so important to let homosexuals become Scout leaders or priests. One might speculate there was a long-term goal to damage both institutions through scandal.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 06, 2022, 09:13:31 AM
  Yeah, the Scouts being a heavily faith connected organization, to Christianity especially was the reason it was of the most importance to make sure we had gay scouts and scout leaders.   The fact those behaviors are in hard contrast to all Abrahamic faiths as written?  Not here, the faith based orgs just have to do it anyway, despite it being in direct conflict with tenants of the organization.  So yeah, pretty sure it was just another form of infiltration and decay of an institution that "HAD TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES!!"

  Pedos in scouting and the priesthood (and school teachers, where they are as out of control as the other two) are a separate issue and deplorable actions were taken for damage control for all of those.  That still is not relevant to forcing an organization that has to institute changes that directly conflict the religious beliefs of the members (as in homosexuality is considered an abomination).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 06, 2022, 01:46:54 PM
LOL. Poor JonB. Sorry, fella, you're just on the wrong side of the mods and they're not going to entertain any appeals. Might as well jump ship.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/appeals-process-communication-to-admin-gmail-com-and-lack-of-feedback.895753/

Also, they are STILL having problems with email codes getting sent out for logins.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/not-receiving-email-code.895868/

Incompetent hacks.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 06, 2022, 03:50:16 PM
Except that statistically, the numbers of predators were far greater among teachers (especially public school teachers) than they were among the Catholic church or the Scouts.

I won't excuse the latter, especially as the church's response was so bad it should've kicked off another full blown schism or Reformation.

However, the church and the Scouts did not enjoy the media protections and union shielding that the teachers did.

(I'm not going to get into the question raised about WHY it was considered so important to let homosexuals become Scout leaders or priests. One might speculate there was a long-term goal to damage both institutions through scandal.)

Your statement makes it sound like the Catholic church and Boy Scout scandals were caused by the gay rights movement. The Catholic church scandals started coming out in the 1990s, and it was documenting behavior that went back several decades to the 1950s. During that time period, the church was a major opponent of gay rights, not a supporter. In these cases, the abusers who were revealed were not gay rights activists or members of the gay community.

Also, I disagree that the church didn't have protections. The church was and is an enormously powerful organization, and more powerful than teacher's unions in my opinion.

I agree that abuse also happens among teachers -- but the 1970s "Save Our Children" campaign was not effective in finding and prosecuting them. That is because it didn't care if teachers were abusers or not. What it cared about was whether teachers were gay. If they were gay, they were fired - with no effort to investigate or prove whether they were abusive. I would welcome legislation to prosecute *actual* abusers among teachers, gay and straight. But just being anti-gay isn't being anti-abuser. It is distracting and dividing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 06, 2022, 04:03:56 PM
Fire up the woodchippers brothers & sisters!

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 06, 2022, 04:05:38 PM
  I remember the hits like "boys beware".  They just never knew the dudes would want to talk to kids K-3 so badly. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 06, 2022, 04:09:04 PM
Back when propaganda went the other way.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 07, 2022, 04:29:10 PM
Back when propaganda went the other way. https://youtu.be/fTn7ALbLYPI

The ironic thing is that under the Florida law, this video would be banned from being shown to kids - because it defines what "homosexual" means, which is instruction on sexual orientation.

I disagree with its suggestion that all homosexual people are pedophilic killers, but otherwise, it illustrates exactly the approach that I advocated for -- teaching kids about how to watch out for pedophiles, and telling them to report them to the authorities.

Childhood sexual abuse remains a huge problem today -- by some estimates, around 20% of women and 5-10% of men report having been abused as children. cf. https://victimsofcrime.org/child-sexual-abuse-statistics/

However, making it illegal for teachers to define gay to kids does nothing to stop and catch the actual sexual predators out there. GeekyBugle posted his video about how supposedly this isn't a Red Scare -- which cites a bunch of different cases of child abuse going back decades. But what's notably missing is that *none* of the cases cited is a Florida public school teacher molesting their students. In 2002, the Boston Globe report found 5 abusive Catholic priests in Boston alone. That was an actual scandal which resulted in criminal prosecution.

I'm not saying that teachers abusing their kids doesn't happen - but this law does nothing to stop and catch them. For example, three Florida teachers were arrested in just one week in February:

https://people.com/crime/3-fla-teachers-arrested-in-same-week-for-allegedly-making-sexual-advances-toward-students-in-classrooms/

The law does nothing to try to stop such incidents - since they are male teachers molesting female students.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 07, 2022, 05:35:39 PM
Back when propaganda went the other way. https://youtu.be/fTn7ALbLYPI

The ironic thing is that under the Florida law, this video would be banned from being shown to kids - because it defines what "homosexual" means, which is instruction on sexual orientation.

I disagree with its suggestion that all homosexual people are pedophilic killers, but otherwise, it illustrates exactly the approach that I advocated for -- teaching kids about how to watch out for pedophiles, and telling them to report them to the authorities.

Childhood sexual abuse remains a huge problem today -- by some estimates, around 20% of women and 5-10% of men report having been abused as children. cf. https://victimsofcrime.org/child-sexual-abuse-statistics/

However, making it illegal for teachers to define gay to kids does nothing to stop and catch the actual sexual predators out there. GeekyBugle posted his video about how supposedly this isn't a Red Scare -- which cites a bunch of different cases of child abuse going back decades. But what's notably missing is that *none* of the cases cited is a Florida public school teacher molesting their students. In 2002, the Boston Globe report found 5 abusive Catholic priests in Boston alone. That was an actual scandal which resulted in criminal prosecution.

I'm not saying that teachers abusing their kids doesn't happen - but this law does nothing to stop and catch them. For example, three Florida teachers were arrested in just one week in February:

https://people.com/crime/3-fla-teachers-arrested-in-same-week-for-allegedly-making-sexual-advances-toward-students-in-classrooms/

The law does nothing to try to stop such incidents - since they are male teachers molesting female students.

  It should be banned for K-3.  Arguably banned for any age in a school setting.  It does not, in any way suggest the men are pedophiliac killers.  It suggests they can not reproduce, so they must "infect" others with their "sickness" through recruitment.   It calls gay men groomers.  No suggestion of them being killers. 

  The law has nothing to do with catching pedos.  They do not want gay people, or otherwise talking about sex, sexual orientation, or gender fee fees with their K-3 kids.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 07, 2022, 07:08:22 PM
Back when propaganda went the other way. https://youtu.be/fTn7ALbLYPI

The ironic thing is that under the Florida law, this video would be banned from being shown to kids - because it defines what "homosexual" means, which is instruction on sexual orientation.

I disagree with its suggestion that all homosexual people are pedophilic killers, but otherwise, it illustrates exactly the approach that I advocated for -- teaching kids about how to watch out for pedophiles, and telling them to report them to the authorities.

Childhood sexual abuse remains a huge problem today -- by some estimates, around 20% of women and 5-10% of men report having been abused as children. cf. https://victimsofcrime.org/child-sexual-abuse-statistics/

However, making it illegal for teachers to define gay to kids does nothing to stop and catch the actual sexual predators out there. GeekyBugle posted his video about how supposedly this isn't a Red Scare -- which cites a bunch of different cases of child abuse going back decades. But what's notably missing is that *none* of the cases cited is a Florida public school teacher molesting their students. In 2002, the Boston Globe report found 5 abusive Catholic priests in Boston alone. That was an actual scandal which resulted in criminal prosecution.

I'm not saying that teachers abusing their kids doesn't happen - but this law does nothing to stop and catch them. For example, three Florida teachers were arrested in just one week in February:

https://people.com/crime/3-fla-teachers-arrested-in-same-week-for-allegedly-making-sexual-advances-toward-students-in-classrooms/

The law does nothing to try to stop such incidents - since they are male teachers molesting female students.

  It should be banned for K-3.  Arguably banned for any age in a school setting.  It does not, in any way suggest the men are pedophiliac killers.  It suggests they can not reproduce, so they must "infect" others with their "sickness" through recruitment.   It calls gay men groomers.  No suggestion of them being killers. 

  The law has nothing to do with catching pedos.  They do not want gay people, or otherwise talking about sex, sexual orientation, or gender fee fees with their K-3 kids.

Greetings!

Exactly, Oggsmash! But you see, the cock-sucking Liberals want to brainwash and corrupt our children with their sick, depraved lifestyles and moral degeneracy. Making laws like the law in Florida makes that goal more difficult for the depraved Liberals. So, they squirm and cry about anything that makes spreading their evil propaganda more difficult.

It's too bad. This is light-weight stuff though, but it's at least a start. Hopefully, we can look forward to more people throughout the country making life much more difficult for the depraved Liberals. Every day, and in every way, fierce resistance and wrath needs to grow against the depraved Liberals.

Diseased, filthy rats always need to be stomped on and crushed--it's for the greater good, so that the rest of society can grow in unity, strength, and prosperity. I don't let diseased, filthy rats make their nests and live amidst my home. They must be ruthlessly hunted down and crushed, without mercy. Think of what evil rats may do to your family, to your children. Psychologically, emotionally, and physically, Liberals are a threat of corruption and disease to our children.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 08, 2022, 01:08:29 AM
Back when propaganda went the other way. https://youtu.be/fTn7ALbLYPI

The ironic thing is that under the Florida law, this video would be banned from being shown to kids - because it defines what "homosexual" means, which is instruction on sexual orientation.

  It should be banned for K-3.  Arguably banned for any age in a school setting.  It does not, in any way suggest the men are pedophiliac killers.  It suggests they can not reproduce, so they must "infect" others with their "sickness" through recruitment.   It calls gay men groomers.  No suggestion of them being killers.

From watching it, I see no suggestion that the homosexual men will "infect" or "recruit" or "groom" the boys. Those words are never used, nor do I see that made clear that the boys will become homosexuals themselves. What happens to the boys eventually if they go with the homosexual is that their life ends. The first two boys contact the police. The third boy is killed. The fourth boy escapes on his own after recognizing the threat.

At 6:20 into the video: "The companionship, the praise, the friendly attitude dispelled any misgivings Mike might have had about going with a stranger. He probably never realized until too late that he was riding in the shadow of death. But some time that evening, Mike Merrick traded his life for a newspaper headline."

At: 9:00: "When Bobby recognized the stranger as the man in the restroom, the short cut under the pier didn’t seem like a good idea at all. After all, it’s more fun to stay with your friends anyway. Bobby had made a wise decision. It may have saved his life."

I feel like it's hard to converse if we can't even see the same concrete stuff in the same video. Maybe I missed something, but those quotes seem clear to me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yancy on April 08, 2022, 07:08:35 AM
From watching it, I see no suggestion that the homosexual men will "infect" or "recruit" or "groom" the boys. Those words are never used

Well no, it doesn't say homosexuals seek to "infect" boys, other than maybe the part where it says that homosexuality is as contagious as smallpox :D

Did you skip over the Jimmy story? After bribes and cajoling, Jimmy "feels a fondness for" Ralph the liberal groomer, gets curious from looking at some porn the liberal shows him, then apparently turns queer (at least for a bit) and has sex with the guy for an indeterminate period of time. When he tells his parents and they contact the police, the groomer gets arrested, but Jimmy gets probation as well, presumably for violating some anti-sodomy ordinance, and the film scolds him for it the whole time.

Then it moves on to a story about a homosexual who isn't a passive groomer, but resorts to violence.

I feel you skimmed this film looking for parts that would prove whatever the hell points it is you're trying to make here on this message board or refute what someone else said, and ignored the story.

That's a shame because this is an excellent film, well worth watching, with a compelling story to tell and important life lessons that might be valuable to both kids and adults to this day.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 08, 2022, 08:05:26 AM
Back when propaganda went the other way. https://youtu.be/fTn7ALbLYPI

The ironic thing is that under the Florida law, this video would be banned from being shown to kids - because it defines what "homosexual" means, which is instruction on sexual orientation.

  It should be banned for K-3.  Arguably banned for any age in a school setting.  It does not, in any way suggest the men are pedophiliac killers.  It suggests they can not reproduce, so they must "infect" others with their "sickness" through recruitment.   It calls gay men groomers.  No suggestion of them being killers.

From watching it, I see no suggestion that the homosexual men will "infect" or "recruit" or "groom" the boys. Those words are never used, nor do I see that made clear that the boys will become homosexuals themselves. What happens to the boys eventually if they go with the homosexual is that their life ends. The first two boys contact the police. The third boy is killed. The fourth boy escapes on his own after recognizing the threat.

At 6:20 into the video: "The companionship, the praise, the friendly attitude dispelled any misgivings Mike might have had about going with a stranger. He probably never realized until too late that he was riding in the shadow of death. But some time that evening, Mike Merrick traded his life for a newspaper headline."

At: 9:00: "When Bobby recognized the stranger as the man in the restroom, the short cut under the pier didn’t seem like a good idea at all. After all, it’s more fun to stay with your friends anyway. Bobby had made a wise decision. It may have saved his life."

I feel like it's hard to converse if we can't even see the same concrete stuff in the same video. Maybe I missed something, but those quotes seem clear to me.
 
  Ralph, at 3:48, shows Jimmy porn pictures.  he "has a sickness, not visible like smallpox but no less contagious or dangerous".   Ralph just takes Jimmy to the hotel.  The other case with Mike, I honestly did not remember the guy being gay, I thought he was just a child killer, same with the guy under the pier.   My apologies on the wrong quotes (though what I said incorrectly, remembering a vid I watched 10+ years ago was hard and I should have re-watched) but given the man's actions and statements about his condition, seems I had the gist of the propaganda being put out correct.  I guess the propaganda failed with me connecting child killers to violent homosexuals as a member-berry. 

    As to hard to converse, sorry about putting things in quotes about poor Ralph there.  I should have watched the vid again, though as I explain, I think the gist of what I mis-quoted is exactly the same.   If you see that line about him being infected with a deadly disease that is contagious, after spending lots of time with a young boy and giving him porn as something other than the exact thing my bad quotes convey, then we can not converse for sure. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on April 08, 2022, 11:37:43 AM
A lot can be done to protect little kids from child predators simply by giving them age-old advice:  don't accept rides from, take candy from, allow yourself to be touched by, or be alone around strangers.  If the kid wonders why, answer "you  might be kidnapped"  or something similar.   Sex does not even have to enter into the matter.  Why does a little kid need a lecture on that, which would mean nothing to them and only confuse them more?  I was taught to wash my hands after using the bathroom when I was little, but I didn't need a lecture on bacterial and viral infections and the scientific reason why soap and water cleans your hands -- I just DID it because adults told me to and said it was necessary to remain healthy.  A kid doesn't need a lecture on anal sex just to learn how to spot suspicious behavior from adults either.

And yes, I know a lot of child molestation is done by people the kid knows and trusts, like relatives.  That's a tougher one.  Kids are helpless and have to trust some adults in order to survive.  I do know that lectures on sex to five-year-olds isn't going to help the situation, though.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 08, 2022, 12:26:39 PM
And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

Fuck you, jeff. What I said to Dellaforno's friend is that we're a bunch of assholes here - which is exactly the same thing I say to your face. Most of us here will proudly admit to that. I didn't say anything on Facebook that I don't say here.

The only thing I said just now was that I had gay friends - so you're claiming that having gay friends is being "woke". But I know plenty of libertarian or even conservative folks who have gay friends, or are gay themselves. You can accuse me of being woke over other things, but being gay or having gay friends doesn't mean that someone is woke.

Bullshit.

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.


Is you using your son as a standard bearer to impress upon the reader how socially just your son has been raised by you. It is virtue signalling at its lowest and is woke as Hell.

Meanwhile, you're acting as if the Florida bill prevents explicit sex ed in grades K-3, but that's not what the bill does. It allows any degree of sex ed to kids, as long as it's hetero sex. What it does is ban any discussion of gayness. And my position is there's nothing inappropriate to kids in K-3 about stuff like marriage, parents, growing up, and similar.

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

I keep seeing "You didn't read the bill" repeated by both sides here. So, here is the relevant text:

In its preamble, the bill’s authors write that their aim is to prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Later, the bill states:

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Hey look, it is the other flavor of jell-o!

Nowhere in your quotes, which don't link back to a verified representation of the bill, does it say "don't say gay". Your quotes appear to say that discussion of that subject matter of ANY orientation will not occur.

So thank you for supporting my argument.

Hey Jeff, believe it or not I was not posting to agree or disagree with anyone. If you think those are not the actual quotes from the bill then feel free to google them. All I was doing was trying to be helpful by posting the relevant sections people were discussing so everyone was on the same page for their discussion. The only "position" I've posted on this topic at all is I wish the authors of the bill had been more clear and used specific examples of behavior which is acceptable or not acceptable rather than leaving it to each district and each school to interpret those clauses for themselves, because I've repeatedly seen what poorly phrased vague bills do in the education system and all that does is waste everyone's time.

For instance, I wish the bill said something like, "if the topic of sexuality comes up in the classroom, teachers should refer students to discuss that matter with their parent or guardian rather than discussing it in class." or something like that. Let teachers and parents know what's expected concerning these matters.

Hey Mistwell, believe it or not, I think you are just trying to obfuscate the discussion because you post quotes but do not bother to post a link to where you got those quotes.

LOL I got them directly from the bill. I am not obfuscating anything. I didn't think you wanted to pour through walls of text but here you go. Knock yourself out. Also, you're welcome. Sorry your Google is broken:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF

And nowhere within that bill does it say, "Don't say gay."

Sorry your reading comprehension is broken.

Oh that's rich! Tell me Jeff, where have I ever said the bill said "Don't say gay?"

You literally have no idea what my position is on this topic. You've simply decided I have an opinion I don't have and have never said or even implied I had.

Ask yourself why you did that Jeff? Just be honest with yourself. WHY did you think I had said the bill says "don't say gay?" What could have led you to accuse me of having bad reading comprehension when you just demonstrated with 100% objective crystal clear proof for all to see that you indeed did not read or comprehend ANYTHING I've said about that topic?

We're on the same side on this topic Jeff, with the one minor quibble being I wish they had written the law better with examples. But you apparently could not conceive of that possibility, and so I guess just made up an opinion for me?

Methinks thou dost protest too much....

You're literally arguing if I call you on blatantly lying about what I said that I must be lying for protesting that you lied about what I said?

That's both circular logic AND unethical! A double play!

Misrepresenting yourself has been your modus operendi for about a decade now. You just squeel when you get caught at it.

OK Jeff I will ask again, where the F did I say ANYTHING like what you claimed I said? Show me? Or are you what, claiming to secretly read my hidden thoughts?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 08, 2022, 12:29:23 PM
EDITED TO ADD: Anita Bryant's 1970s campaign of "Save Our Children" was aimed mainly at getting teachers and others fired for being openly gay. But in the fifty years since then, investigating Catholic priests and scout master caught far more sexual predators than the supposed "Save Our Children". The point is the predators hide, and catching them means actual investigation and prosecution. I want to see real predators caught and dealt with.
Except that statistically, the numbers of predators were far greater among teachers (especially public school teachers) than they were among the Catholic church or the Scouts.

When you say statistically do you mean as a percentage of teachers compared to the percentage of Catholic church employees or Scout leaders, or you mean just raw numbers? Not that, again, that excuses any bad behavior I am just curious on the stats here.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 08, 2022, 02:00:44 PM
EDITED TO ADD: Anita Bryant's 1970s campaign of "Save Our Children" was aimed mainly at getting teachers and others fired for being openly gay. But in the fifty years since then, investigating Catholic priests and scout master caught far more sexual predators than the supposed "Save Our Children". The point is the predators hide, and catching them means actual investigation and prosecution. I want to see real predators caught and dealt with.
Except that statistically, the numbers of predators were far greater among teachers (especially public school teachers) than they were among the Catholic church or the Scouts.

When you say statistically do you mean as a percentage of teachers compared to the percentage of Catholic church employees or Scout leaders, or you mean just raw numbers? Not that, again, that excuses any bad behavior I am just curious on the stats here.

There's a chart, can't find it right now but I hope an article by the very left wing The Guardian will suffice for now:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2010/mar/11/catholic-abuse-priests (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2010/mar/11/catholic-abuse-priests)

Found more sources, hve this with some nifty extracts:

https://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/49904-priests-vs-teachers-fight/ (https://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/49904-priests-vs-teachers-fight/)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 08, 2022, 03:35:03 PM
From watching it, I see no suggestion that the homosexual men will "infect" or "recruit" or "groom" the boys. Those words are never used, nor do I see that made clear that the boys will become homosexuals themselves. What happens to the boys eventually if they go with the homosexual is that their life ends. The first two boys contact the police. The third boy is killed. The fourth boy escapes on his own after recognizing the threat.

At 6:20 into the video: "The companionship, the praise, the friendly attitude dispelled any misgivings Mike might have had about going with a stranger. He probably never realized until too late that he was riding in the shadow of death. But some time that evening, Mike Merrick traded his life for a newspaper headline."

At: 9:00: "When Bobby recognized the stranger as the man in the restroom, the short cut under the pier didn’t seem like a good idea at all. After all, it’s more fun to stay with your friends anyway. Bobby had made a wise decision. It may have saved his life."

I feel like it's hard to converse if we can't even see the same concrete stuff in the same video. Maybe I missed something, but those quotes seem clear to me.
 
  Ralph, at 3:48, shows Jimmy porn pictures.  he "has a sickness, not visible like smallpox but no less contagious or dangerous".   Ralph just takes Jimmy to the hotel.  The other case with Mike, I honestly did not remember the guy being gay, I thought he was just a child killer, same with the guy under the pier.   My apologies on the wrong quotes (though what I said incorrectly, remembering a vid I watched 10+ years ago was hard and I should have re-watched) but given the man's actions and statements about his condition, seems I had the gist of the propaganda being put out correct.

OK, fair enough. I missed the use of the word "contagious" which does imply infection as you say. However, the latter two killers are definitely described as homosexuals. The introduction of Mike's story says "Not all homosexuals are passive, however." -- and the guy under the pier is introduced with "Public restrooms can often be a hang out for the homosexual."

I'll grant that the first homosexual was described as being contagious, if you'll accept that latter two homosexuals are characterized as child killers. I think that puts a strong association of homosexuals as likely to be child murderers.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 08, 2022, 08:23:22 PM
Greetings!

Gays don't hang out in public restrooms so they can fuck little kids. They don't routinely hang out in public restrooms to fuck each other, and pursue sexual depravity! Geesus! Such "Alt-Right" bigotry! We have nothing to worry about! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 09, 2022, 02:05:54 AM
A lot can be done to protect little kids from child predators simply by giving them age-old advice:  don't accept rides from, take candy from, allow yourself to be touched by, or be alone around strangers.  If the kid wonders why, answer "you  might be kidnapped"  or something similar.   Sex does not even have to enter into the matter.
And yes, I know a lot of child molestation is done by people the kid knows and trusts, like relatives.  That's a tougher one.  Kids are helpless and have to trust some adults in order to survive.  I do know that lectures on sex to five-year-olds isn't going to help the situation, though.

It doesn't just happen some of the time - the *vast majority* of sexual abuse comes from people the child already knows. From a study of 500 child sexual abuse cases prosecuted, here was the breakdown of perpetrator relation to victim:

stranger 12
peer 83
romantic relation 10
person of authority 40
parent/family 153
acquaintance 117
boyfriend/girlfriend of parent 32
unknown 53

Source: https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/252768.pdf  (table 1, page 10)

So around a third of abuse happens in the home, and the majority of abuse outside the home is from people the child already knows. From the report, the child's testimony is critical to bringing abuse to trial and successfully prosecuted.

The people who are actually catching and prosecuting abusers support that teaching kids to come forwards does work. Kids don't need any knowledge of how sex works to understand that their bodies are private to them, and that there can be bad touches.

The vast majority of everyone - liberal, conservative, gay, straight - are all opposed to child abuse. A law that was designed to stop child abusers generally would have cross-partisan support. The current Florida law doesn't do anything like that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 09, 2022, 09:55:48 AM
A lot can be done to protect little kids from child predators simply by giving them age-old advice:  don't accept rides from, take candy from, allow yourself to be touched by, or be alone around strangers.  If the kid wonders why, answer "you  might be kidnapped"  or something similar.   Sex does not even have to enter into the matter.
And yes, I know a lot of child molestation is done by people the kid knows and trusts, like relatives.  That's a tougher one.  Kids are helpless and have to trust some adults in order to survive.  I do know that lectures on sex to five-year-olds isn't going to help the situation, though.

It doesn't just happen some of the time - the *vast majority* of sexual abuse comes from people the child already knows. From a study of 500 child sexual abuse cases prosecuted, here was the breakdown of perpetrator relation to victim:

stranger 12
peer 83
romantic relation 10
person of authority 40
parent/family 153
acquaintance 117
boyfriend/girlfriend of parent 32
unknown 53

Source: https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/252768.pdf  (table 1, page 10)

So around a third of abuse happens in the home, and the majority of abuse outside the home is from people the child already knows. From the report, the child's testimony is critical to bringing abuse to trial and successfully prosecuted.

The people who are actually catching and prosecuting abusers support that teaching kids to come forwards does work. Kids don't need any knowledge of how sex works to understand that their bodies are private to them, and that there can be bad touches.

The vast majority of everyone - liberal, conservative, gay, straight - are all opposed to child abuse. A law that was designed to stop child abusers generally would have cross-partisan support. The current Florida law doesn't do anything like that.

Yeah, it just stops teachers from grooming the children, it doesn't address any other risk...

Therefore we should be against it since it's not perfect...

No jhkim, the law it's designed to stop teachers from grooming children, did you know that among zoomers the number of people self identifying as part of the alphabet soup almost DOUBLED in about 5 years?

Did you know that the teachers have been "encouraging them to question their sexuality/gender"? And that's a quote from a video by one very proud teacher groomer.

Did you know that you can groom someone into a cult?

As for "liberals" being against child diddlers... Only if they can blame Christians.

https://archive.ph/ttVNy (https://archive.ph/ttVNy)



I have more.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 09, 2022, 10:41:12 PM
Worthwhile to watch, pay especial attention from around minute 20 about how the grooming has increased the number of the alphabet people.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 10, 2022, 03:37:06 AM
Out of curiosity why has the RPGnet thread become the child molestation thread again?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on April 10, 2022, 12:22:23 PM
Show me where the mods touched you on the doll.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 10, 2022, 04:44:14 PM
From watching it, I see no suggestion that the homosexual men will "infect" or "recruit" or "groom" the boys. Those words are never used, nor do I see that made clear that the boys will become homosexuals themselves. What happens to the boys eventually if they go with the homosexual is that their life ends. The first two boys contact the police. The third boy is killed. The fourth boy escapes on his own after recognizing the threat.

At 6:20 into the video: "The companionship, the praise, the friendly attitude dispelled any misgivings Mike might have had about going with a stranger. He probably never realized until too late that he was riding in the shadow of death. But some time that evening, Mike Merrick traded his life for a newspaper headline."

At: 9:00: "When Bobby recognized the stranger as the man in the restroom, the short cut under the pier didn’t seem like a good idea at all. After all, it’s more fun to stay with your friends anyway. Bobby had made a wise decision. It may have saved his life."

I feel like it's hard to converse if we can't even see the same concrete stuff in the same video. Maybe I missed something, but those quotes seem clear to me.
 
  Ralph, at 3:48, shows Jimmy porn pictures.  he "has a sickness, not visible like smallpox but no less contagious or dangerous".   Ralph just takes Jimmy to the hotel.  The other case with Mike, I honestly did not remember the guy being gay, I thought he was just a child killer, same with the guy under the pier.   My apologies on the wrong quotes (though what I said incorrectly, remembering a vid I watched 10+ years ago was hard and I should have re-watched) but given the man's actions and statements about his condition, seems I had the gist of the propaganda being put out correct.

OK, fair enough. I missed the use of the word "contagious" which does imply infection as you say. However, the latter two killers are definitely described as homosexuals. The introduction of Mike's story says "Not all homosexuals are passive, however." -- and the guy under the pier is introduced with "Public restrooms can often be a hang out for the homosexual."

I'll grant that the first homosexual was described as being contagious, if you'll accept that latter two homosexuals are characterized as child killers. I think that puts a strong association of homosexuals as likely to be child murderers.

  I have no issues accepting it, like I said, it had been since 2010 since I last saw the video.   Fact is there have been quite a few homosexual child killers (Gasey and Dahmer are always memorable), and the whole point of any propaganda is to run wild as to massively amplify something that happened to alarmist levels...so it is not surprising a video presenting homosexuality as a learned ( and that is putting it politely compared to the tone of that video) behavior would do all it can to make the worst things possible associated with homosexuality...isnt that the point of propaganda?   Take some truth and ramp up drama to get an emotional reaction?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 10, 2022, 04:57:45 PM
A lot can be done to protect little kids from child predators simply by giving them age-old advice:  don't accept rides from, take candy from, allow yourself to be touched by, or be alone around strangers.  If the kid wonders why, answer "you  might be kidnapped"  or something similar.   Sex does not even have to enter into the matter.
And yes, I know a lot of child molestation is done by people the kid knows and trusts, like relatives.  That's a tougher one.  Kids are helpless and have to trust some adults in order to survive.  I do know that lectures on sex to five-year-olds isn't going to help the situation, though.

It doesn't just happen some of the time - the *vast majority* of sexual abuse comes from people the child already knows. From a study of 500 child sexual abuse cases prosecuted, here was the breakdown of perpetrator relation to victim:

stranger 12
peer 83
romantic relation 10
person of authority 40
parent/family 153
acquaintance 117
boyfriend/girlfriend of parent 32
unknown 53

Source: https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/252768.pdf  (table 1, page 10)

So around a third of abuse happens in the home, and the majority of abuse outside the home is from people the child already knows. From the report, the child's testimony is critical to bringing abuse to trial and successfully prosecuted.

The people who are actually catching and prosecuting abusers support that teaching kids to come forwards does work. Kids don't need any knowledge of how sex works to understand that their bodies are private to them, and that there can be bad touches.

The vast majority of everyone - liberal, conservative, gay, straight - are all opposed to child abuse. A law that was designed to stop child abusers generally would have cross-partisan support. The current Florida law doesn't do anything like that.

  Not the intent of the florida law.  Intent of the florida law is to keep parents STRONGLY in the loop on discussing sensitive matters with their kids themselves and not with the purple haired gender queer teacher with a rainbow flag on the wall.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 11, 2022, 07:54:43 AM
OK groomers, time for another round of 'random shots fired by TBP mods'.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/brandi-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban.896003/

Can't make sense of this one. I know, 'abrasive', but come on, that never stops the mods from acting like entitled knob goblins.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/valkyra-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-drive-by-trolling.896013/

Mods demonstrating their superior telepathic senses here, though Arethusa is probably right. Still, it amuses me how fast they're willing to reach for the banhammer.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dmjalund-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-threadban.896038/

Threadban because mods hate humor in their A-game threads.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 13, 2022, 08:09:11 AM
Three month ban for questioning a mod's motivations: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/megazver-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-ninety-day-ban.896110/

Megazver, you've been there since 2004, you should know the mods cannot be questioned.

This is, I might note, the only infraction they've had (at least dating back to 2012).  So yeah, I think someone gets their knickers in a twist when one of the chosen ones gets poked.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on April 13, 2022, 09:32:14 AM
Ive been much more interested in how they are dancing around/ not posting to any degree on the NYC subway attack. Not surprising considering how much they have stifled speech there.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 13, 2022, 10:55:46 AM
Ive been much more interested in how they are dancing around/ not posting to any degree on the NYC subway attack. Not surprising considering how much they have stifled speech there.
Same reason that shooting in Sacramento, CA has fallen off the map suddenly. It doesn't prop up the narrative.

(Also, bonus motivation is that the NYC shooter was evidently crazier than a bedbug and ranting in his social media posts.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thornhammer on April 13, 2022, 02:27:14 PM
Three month ban for questioning a mod's motivations: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/megazver-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-ninety-day-ban.896110/

Megazver, you've been there since 2004, you should know the mods cannot be questioned.

This is, I might note, the only infraction they've had (at least dating back to 2012).  So yeah, I think someone gets their knickers in a twist when one of the chosen ones gets poked.

That setting they're handwringing over looks pretty badass - I can't tell if it is Cthulhu Mythos or just Mythos-adjacent.

$70 for the book and another $7 (at least) shipping for a physical copy about a year out is a no-sale, but I'll check out the podcast and if I remember it next year maybe acquire a copy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on April 13, 2022, 03:33:32 PM
Megazver, you've been there since 2004, you should know the mods cannot be questioned.

Also, everybody knows that you can't concern troll about Properly Problematic Issues.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 14, 2022, 11:07:51 PM
Sorry about the delay in reply, oggsmash and GeekyBugle. I've had family in town.

The vast majority of everyone - liberal, conservative, gay, straight - are all opposed to child abuse. A law that was designed to stop child abusers generally would have cross-partisan support. The current Florida law doesn't do anything like that.

Yeah, it just stops teachers from grooming the children, it doesn't address any other risk...

Therefore we should be against it since it's not perfect...

No jhkim, the law it's designed to stop teachers from grooming children, did you know that among zoomers the number of people self identifying as part of the alphabet soup almost DOUBLED in about 5 years?

Did you know that the teachers have been "encouraging them to question their sexuality/gender"? And that's a quote from a video by one very proud teacher groomer.

Did you know that you can groom someone into a cult?

Personally, I don't care if the number of gay people doubles or halves.  What I care about is reducing sexual abuse - along with other abuse, neglect, bullying, and threats that happen to kids. A kid being molested is a crime that needs to be stopped. A kid growing up to be gay isn't.

As for students being encouraged to question sexuality/gender... students should question things. Traditionally and currently, way too much of school has been assembly-line learning things by rote and repeating back just what the teacher tells them. That's always been true, but better educators develop critical thinking by encouraging students to question things.

If Florida wanted to introduce alternate, more conservative ideas into the curriculum, I'd be fine with that. But it's normal that young kids hear about romance, courtship, marriage, or families -- given that they're integral to most G-rated Disney films and fairy tales. Pretending that it's inherently child abuse to bring these things up is off-base.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 15, 2022, 01:46:14 AM
Sorry about the delay in reply, oggsmash and GeekyBugle. I've had family in town.

The vast majority of everyone - liberal, conservative, gay, straight - are all opposed to child abuse. A law that was designed to stop child abusers generally would have cross-partisan support. The current Florida law doesn't do anything like that.

Yeah, it just stops teachers from grooming the children, it doesn't address any other risk...

Therefore we should be against it since it's not perfect...

No jhkim, the law it's designed to stop teachers from grooming children, did you know that among zoomers the number of people self identifying as part of the alphabet soup almost DOUBLED in about 5 years?

Did you know that the teachers have been "encouraging them to question their sexuality/gender"? And that's a quote from a video by one very proud teacher groomer.

Did you know that you can groom someone into a cult?

Personally, I don't care if the number of gay people doubles or halves.  What I care about is reducing sexual abuse - along with other abuse, neglect, bullying, and threats that happen to kids. A kid being molested is a crime that needs to be stopped. A kid growing up to be gay isn't.

As for students being encouraged to question sexuality/gender... students should question things. Traditionally and currently, way too much of school has been assembly-line learning things by rote and repeating back just what the teacher tells them. That's always been true, but better educators develop critical thinking by encouraging students to question things.

If Florida wanted to introduce alternate, more conservative ideas into the curriculum, I'd be fine with that. But it's normal that young kids hear about romance, courtship, marriage, or families -- given that they're integral to most G-rated Disney films and fairy tales. Pretending that it's inherently child abuse to bring these things up is off-base.

At what age should they be encouraged to question their gender?

Name a single Disney movie where theres anything explict about sex.

You're arguing in a disingenuos and dishonest way, notice I didn't say gay people, I said alphabet people, meaning trans, and all the fictitious genders they have invented. So, a part of the population that has NEVER reached 1% suddenly is at double their usual size among a certain age group and you don't find it oddly coincidental with the spread of Gender Ideology on schools pushing this on small children.

We're talking about children 4-8 years old, and you honestly think it's okay to ENCOURAGE them to question their sexuality/gender? At that age they believe in Santa Claus and want to be fucking Spider-Man, and you want me to believe pushing that on them isn't having an effect? You either didn't think this through or you're okay with grooming children.

And since this isn't your first disingenuos argument here or on other discussions I have to assume you ARE pro grooming children, ergo pedo friendly.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 11:00:24 AM
Sorry about the delay in reply, oggsmash and GeekyBugle. I've had family in town.

The vast majority of everyone - liberal, conservative, gay, straight - are all opposed to child abuse. A law that was designed to stop child abusers generally would have cross-partisan support. The current Florida law doesn't do anything like that.

Yeah, it just stops teachers from grooming the children, it doesn't address any other risk...

Therefore we should be against it since it's not perfect...

No jhkim, the law it's designed to stop teachers from grooming children, did you know that among zoomers the number of people self identifying as part of the alphabet soup almost DOUBLED in about 5 years?

Did you know that the teachers have been "encouraging them to question their sexuality/gender"? And that's a quote from a video by one very proud teacher groomer.

Did you know that you can groom someone into a cult?

Personally, I don't care if the number of gay people doubles or halves.  What I care about is reducing sexual abuse - along with other abuse, neglect, bullying, and threats that happen to kids. A kid being molested is a crime that needs to be stopped. A kid growing up to be gay isn't.

As for students being encouraged to question sexuality/gender... students should question things. Traditionally and currently, way too much of school has been assembly-line learning things by rote and repeating back just what the teacher tells them. That's always been true, but better educators develop critical thinking by encouraging students to question things.

If Florida wanted to introduce alternate, more conservative ideas into the curriculum, I'd be fine with that. But it's normal that young kids hear about romance, courtship, marriage, or families -- given that they're integral to most G-rated Disney films and fairy tales. Pretending that it's inherently child abuse to bring these things up is off-base.

      You are fine with Florida doing that, until they did it you mean.   Being Gay is not genetic.  It is largely an environmental influence and societal norms that can dictate how often that happens to a larger degree than genetics.  So I doubt you when you say you have no care as to the homosexual population.  I doubt a whole lot of what you say, because before you were going on about Harvey Milk and elementary school kids.  A whole lot of your talking points looked copied and pasted off twitter.   I suppose you have to modify your angle here with the Neanderthals eh?

  edited to add:  My point being, just be honest, if you are good with promoting all sexuality choices as being equal in quality to society, present that.  Make that argument.  You could be the sort of person who would use heteronormative (what we called normal back in 2010) in a sentence.  I think your position is coming from a "fear" of "erasing" queer identity insofar as Florida schools are concerned.    I personally do not believe this. But I also do not care if Florida does it.  I also do not bother with what other people want to do in their houses together.  If they want to have same sex relations, poop on one another, or shoot heroin, I do not care.  I also do not want them promoting their proclivities to kids, hetero hijinks or otherwise.  School can be just for the biological science around human reproduction, and the discussion ends there IMO.  Any further talk can be with parents, and from there if the parents want to bring in an outsider, more power to them. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 15, 2022, 03:44:04 PM
If Florida wanted to introduce alternate, more conservative ideas into the curriculum, I'd be fine with that. But it's normal that young kids hear about romance, courtship, marriage, or families -- given that they're integral to most G-rated Disney films and fairy tales. Pretending that it's inherently child abuse to bring these things up is off-base.

      You are fine with Florida doing that, until they did it you mean.   Being Gay is not genetic.  It is largely an environmental influence and societal norms that can dictate how often that happens to a larger degree than genetics.  So I doubt you when you say you have no care as to the homosexual population.  I doubt a whole lot of what you say, because before you were going on about Harvey Milk and elementary school kids.  A whole lot of your talking points looked copied and pasted off twitter.   I suppose you have to modify your angle here with the Neanderthals eh?
  edited to add:  My point being, just be honest, if you are good with promoting all sexuality choices as being equal in quality to society, present that.  Make that argument.

Sorry if it hasn't been clear, but yes, based on my friends and family who are gay, I believe that they are deserving of equal rights and respect as any other people. This has nothing to do with Twitter - it has to do with what I was raised to believe and continue to support. Treating gay and straight people equally is the value that I learned in my church growing up, and it is a value of the church I am involved in now.

When I was growing up, kids were bullied and beaten up as "sissies" or "pansies" for seeming gay - and adults were shunned, fired, or even thrown in jail for being gay. I believe that behavior was wrong, and I think it is a good thing that the law and attitudes have changed. I suspect that treating gay people with equal rights and respect will lead to there being more people who come out as gay, but that's not the goal. The goal is just to treat people with equal rights and respect, which is an end in itself.

If you want to make the argument that gay people should not be given equal rights and respect, then please make that clear. I think if one wants to argue that they should *not* be treated equally, then there needs to be reasons given.


I also do not bother with what other people want to do in their houses together.  If they want to have same sex relations, poop on one another, or shoot heroin, I do not care.  I also do not want them promoting their proclivities to kids, hetero hijinks or otherwise.  School can be just for the biological science around human reproduction, and the discussion ends there IMO.  Any further talk can be with parents, and from there if the parents want to bring in an outsider, more power to them.

For centuries, it has been normal for young kids to discuss coming-of-age, romance, courtship, marriage, and families in both school and home. At school, they have read stories about how a princess and a prince fall in love. At school, they learned about how George Washington and Martha Custis got married and lived together at Mount Vernon. They read about how marriage and families work in foreign countries and in history.

Do you feel that schools should ban reading "Snow White" to kids because it has a hetero romance in it? And even without romance, stories have hetero relationships portrayed, like having a mommy and daddy raising kids. Should any portrayal of hetero parents be banned in order to also ban "Heather Has Two Mommies"?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on April 15, 2022, 03:52:54 PM
Okay, there's a difference between sexual orientation and gender.

Gender is a set of social roles forced on men and women against their will from birth. It is not synonymous with the two sexes.

Sexual orientation is what sex a person is sexually/romantically attracted to. As far as science has been able to determine, this is determined by hormone levels in the womb. In rare cases, a fetus is doused with the hormone levels usually reserved for the opposite sex, telling their brain to enter that development path, and grows up to be gay as a result (or bisexual, the reasons for which are less clear). Some people have suffered strokes that caused their sexual orientation to change after damaging those areas of the brain, in both directions, so we have evidence that this is a result of physical neural wiring. By comparison, the lack of success with conversion therapy shows that this wiring is very deeply embedded. Brain scans have shown that sexual orientation is indicated by certain shapes in the wiring: e.g. gay men and straight women share similar wiring showing an attraction to the male sex.

Some people claim to be asexual and lack sex drive, sexual orientation, etc, but this phenomenon is very poorly studied.

There's zero evidence that sexual orientation can be changed after birth without invasive brain surgery (and no such procedure exists anyway). Telling kids about homosexuality isn't going to cause them to become homosexual, and all the queer transtrenders are just straight kids identifying as queer for social clout.

We should certainly question gender roles because those are social constructs that vary over time and space, but the two sexes are real and current medical science cannot change your sex.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 04:02:18 PM
If Florida wanted to introduce alternate, more conservative ideas into the curriculum, I'd be fine with that. But it's normal that young kids hear about romance, courtship, marriage, or families -- given that they're integral to most G-rated Disney films and fairy tales. Pretending that it's inherently child abuse to bring these things up is off-base.

      You are fine with Florida doing that, until they did it you mean.   Being Gay is not genetic.  It is largely an environmental influence and societal norms that can dictate how often that happens to a larger degree than genetics.  So I doubt you when you say you have no care as to the homosexual population.  I doubt a whole lot of what you say, because before you were going on about Harvey Milk and elementary school kids.  A whole lot of your talking points looked copied and pasted off twitter.   I suppose you have to modify your angle here with the Neanderthals eh?
  edited to add:  My point being, just be honest, if you are good with promoting all sexuality choices as being equal in quality to society, present that.  Make that argument.

Sorry if it hasn't been clear, but yes, based on my friends and family who are gay, I believe that they are deserving of equal rights and respect as any other people. This has nothing to do with Twitter - it has to do with what I was raised to believe and continue to support. Treating gay and straight people equally is the value that I learned in my church growing up, and it is a value of the church I am involved in now.

When I was growing up, kids were bullied and beaten up as "sissies" or "pansies" for seeming gay - and adults were shunned, fired, or even thrown in jail for being gay. I believe that behavior was wrong, and I think it is a good thing that the law and attitudes have changed. I suspect that treating gay people with equal rights and respect will lead to there being more people who come out as gay, but that's not the goal. The goal is just to treat people with equal rights and respect, which is an end in itself.

If you want to make the argument that gay people should not be given equal rights and respect, then please make that clear. I think if one wants to argue that they should *not* be treated equally, then there needs to be reasons given.


I also do not bother with what other people want to do in their houses together.  If they want to have same sex relations, poop on one another, or shoot heroin, I do not care.  I also do not want them promoting their proclivities to kids, hetero hijinks or otherwise.  School can be just for the biological science around human reproduction, and the discussion ends there IMO.  Any further talk can be with parents, and from there if the parents want to bring in an outsider, more power to them.

For centuries, it has been normal for young kids to discuss coming-of-age, romance, courtship, marriage, and families in both school and home. At school, they have read stories about how a princess and a prince fall in love. At school, they learned about how George Washington and Martha Custis got married and lived together at Mount Vernon. They read about how marriage and families work in foreign countries and in history.

Do you feel that schools should ban reading "Snow White" to kids because it has a hetero romance in it? And even without romance, stories have hetero relationships portrayed, like having a mommy and daddy raising kids. Should any portrayal of hetero parents be banned in order to also ban "Heather Has Two Mommies"?

  I am super clear,  I am fine with equal rights. You are not super clear.  You talk about Harvey Milk not being discussed with k-3 kids as if it is some violation of rights.  I also said all lifestyles are not of the same value towards furthering society.   Opposite sex relations are normal, as per the exact definition of the word.  Same sex relationships are not.  That is simple historical fact.  I can think people should have the same rights, and at the same time say their choice is wrong.   I think you want equality of promotion of life style, not equal rights.  Given one life style is fringe minority, equal promotion is not really equal no more than making women wear veils or banning pork is equal. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 04:11:00 PM
Okay, there's a difference between sexual orientation and gender.

Gender is a set of social roles forced on men and women against their will from birth. It is not synonymous with the two sexes.

Sexual orientation is what sex a person is sexually/romantically attracted to. As far as science has been able to determine, this is determined by hormone levels in the womb. In rare cases, a fetus is doused with the hormone levels usually reserved for the opposite sex, telling their brain to enter that development path, and grows up to be gay as a result (or bisexual, the reasons for which are less clear). Some people have suffered strokes that caused their sexual orientation to change after damaging those areas of the brain, in both directions, so we have evidence that this is a result of physical neural wiring. By comparison, the lack of success with conversion therapy shows that this wiring is very deeply embedded. Brain scans have shown that sexual orientation is indicated by certain shapes in the wiring: e.g. gay men and straight women share similar wiring showing an attraction to the male sex.

Some people claim to be asexual and lack sex drive, sexual orientation, etc, but this phenomenon is very poorly studied.

There's zero evidence that sexual orientation can be changed after birth without invasive brain surgery (and no such procedure exists anyway). Telling kids about homosexuality isn't going to cause them to become homosexual, and all the queer transtrenders are just straight kids identifying as queer for social clout.

We should certainly question gender roles because those are social constructs that vary over time and space, but the two sexes are real and current medical science cannot change your sex.

  I have no idea how much is set at birth, I read a study and several stories connected to same that came out in 2019 that had the genetic factors people were born with estimated to be an 8-25 percent factor in sexual orientation (though the study also said it could be more, or less, as there were no overwhelming factors they could find genetically that put factors together).  Could you link the study about the hormones in the womb?  That  makes sense, but it also seems to be a likely genetic link of some sort.  The study did say environmental factors play a bigger role, and I am sure hormones in the womb around what the mother does or experiences would certainly  qualify as an environmental factor. 

    I also think there are simply more straight kids larping as gay, but the fact is, how much sex with a man does a straight man have before we  call them gay?  It makes me think of the line about having relationships with women and sex with men.  I think the growth in identity is due to change of behaviors ( as in rewarding people for signaling a new virtue aka social engineering), and I agree the actual number of people who are same sex oriented is probably fixed and tiny as a population, as it has always been historically.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 15, 2022, 05:24:54 PM
Do you feel that schools should ban reading "Snow White" to kids because it has a hetero romance in it? And even without romance, stories have hetero relationships portrayed, like having a mommy and daddy raising kids. Should any portrayal of hetero parents be banned in order to also ban "Heather Has Two Mommies"?

  I am super clear,  I am fine with equal rights.  I also said all lifestyles are not of the same value towards furthering society.   Opposite sex relations are normal, as per the exact definition of the word.  Same sex relationships are not.  That is simple historical fact.  I can think people should have the same rights, and at the same time say their choice is wrong.   I think you want equality of promotion of life style, not equal rights.  Given one life style is fringe minority, equal promotion is not really equal no more than making women wear veils or banning pork is equal.

Your example of forcing women to wear veils doesn't seem equivalent to the issue with the Florida law. The most direct parallel would be if there were a law banning any mention of Islam or Judaism to school kids. Do you feel that such a law would be acceptable? I feel it would be discriminatory against Muslim and Jewish people.

I don't have a problem with Christian people (which includes me) from proselytizing for their religion, but that should be done by promoting a positive portrayal of Christianity -- not by banning portrayals of Islam and Judaism.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 06:02:36 PM
Do you feel that schools should ban reading "Snow White" to kids because it has a hetero romance in it? And even without romance, stories have hetero relationships portrayed, like having a mommy and daddy raising kids. Should any portrayal of hetero parents be banned in order to also ban "Heather Has Two Mommies"?

  I am super clear,  I am fine with equal rights.  I also said all lifestyles are not of the same value towards furthering society.   Opposite sex relations are normal, as per the exact definition of the word.  Same sex relationships are not.  That is simple historical fact.  I can think people should have the same rights, and at the same time say their choice is wrong.   I think you want equality of promotion of life style, not equal rights.  Given one life style is fringe minority, equal promotion is not really equal no more than making women wear veils or banning pork is equal.

Your example of forcing women to wear veils doesn't seem equivalent to the issue with the Florida law. The most direct parallel would be if there were a law banning any mention of Islam or Judaism to school kids. Do you feel that such a law would be acceptable? I feel it would be discriminatory against Muslim and Jewish people.

I don't have a problem with Christian people (which includes me) from proselytizing for their religion, but that should be done by promoting a positive portrayal of Christianity -- not by banning portrayals of Islam and Judaism.

  It is, you just miss it because you want to pretend I said something I did not.  Enforcing and promoting  a tiny minorities point of view as a norm for a society is not equal.  it would be massive over representation.   Now you pretend we are talking about the Florida law again, though when you want to talk about Harvey Milk...it seemed you just regurgitated Twitter concerns...so the reality is you are just shot gunning here because what you want is ACCEPTANCE of the queer ideology.  Sorry, not going to happen.  My patience stops at tolerance, as it does with most parents, and apparently with most of the people in Florida.  My advice is to be happy with that and not to push too much.  Besides you and the other lefties will do what you always do, take it to an activist court when "democracy" tells you to go fuck yourself with what ever you are pushing.   

  As for your pushing christianity, well your flavor is also a fringe minority point of view there.   Yours is the atheist church where people still like to get up early on Sundays right? 
   
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 15, 2022, 06:04:01 PM
If Florida wanted to introduce alternate, more conservative ideas into the curriculum, I'd be fine with that. But it's normal that young kids hear about romance, courtship, marriage, or families -- given that they're integral to most G-rated Disney films and fairy tales. Pretending that it's inherently child abuse to bring these things up is off-base.

      You are fine with Florida doing that, until they did it you mean.   Being Gay is not genetic.  It is largely an environmental influence and societal norms that can dictate how often that happens to a larger degree than genetics.  So I doubt you when you say you have no care as to the homosexual population.  I doubt a whole lot of what you say, because before you were going on about Harvey Milk and elementary school kids.  A whole lot of your talking points looked copied and pasted off twitter.   I suppose you have to modify your angle here with the Neanderthals eh?
  edited to add:  My point being, just be honest, if you are good with promoting all sexuality choices as being equal in quality to society, present that.  Make that argument.

Sorry if it hasn't been clear, but yes, based on my friends and family who are gay, I believe that they are deserving of equal rights and respect as any other people. This has nothing to do with Twitter - it has to do with what I was raised to believe and continue to support. Treating gay and straight people equally is the value that I learned in my church growing up, and it is a value of the church I am involved in now.

When I was growing up, kids were bullied and beaten up as "sissies" or "pansies" for seeming gay - and adults were shunned, fired, or even thrown in jail for being gay. I believe that behavior was wrong, and I think it is a good thing that the law and attitudes have changed. I suspect that treating gay people with equal rights and respect will lead to there being more people who come out as gay, but that's not the goal. The goal is just to treat people with equal rights and respect, which is an end in itself.

If you want to make the argument that gay people should not be given equal rights and respect, then please make that clear. I think if one wants to argue that they should *not* be treated equally, then there needs to be reasons given.


I also do not bother with what other people want to do in their houses together.  If they want to have same sex relations, poop on one another, or shoot heroin, I do not care.  I also do not want them promoting their proclivities to kids, hetero hijinks or otherwise.  School can be just for the biological science around human reproduction, and the discussion ends there IMO.  Any further talk can be with parents, and from there if the parents want to bring in an outsider, more power to them.

For centuries, it has been normal for young kids to discuss coming-of-age, romance, courtship, marriage, and families in both school and home. At school, they have read stories about how a princess and a prince fall in love. At school, they learned about how George Washington and Martha Custis got married and lived together at Mount Vernon. They read about how marriage and families work in foreign countries and in history.

Do you feel that schools should ban reading "Snow White" to kids because it has a hetero romance in it? And even without romance, stories have hetero relationships portrayed, like having a mommy and daddy raising kids. Should any portrayal of hetero parents be banned in order to also ban "Heather Has Two Mommies"?

Translation: If you're against grooming children you want the gays back in the closet...

Okay Groomer.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 15, 2022, 06:06:47 PM
Do you feel that schools should ban reading "Snow White" to kids because it has a hetero romance in it? And even without romance, stories have hetero relationships portrayed, like having a mommy and daddy raising kids. Should any portrayal of hetero parents be banned in order to also ban "Heather Has Two Mommies"?

  I am super clear,  I am fine with equal rights.  I also said all lifestyles are not of the same value towards furthering society.   Opposite sex relations are normal, as per the exact definition of the word.  Same sex relationships are not.  That is simple historical fact.  I can think people should have the same rights, and at the same time say their choice is wrong.   I think you want equality of promotion of life style, not equal rights.  Given one life style is fringe minority, equal promotion is not really equal no more than making women wear veils or banning pork is equal.

Your example of forcing women to wear veils doesn't seem equivalent to the issue with the Florida law. The most direct parallel would be if there were a law banning any mention of Islam or Judaism to school kids. Do you feel that such a law would be acceptable? I feel it would be discriminatory against Muslim and Jewish people.

I don't have a problem with Christian people (which includes me) from proselytizing for their religion, but that should be done by promoting a positive portrayal of Christianity -- not by banning portrayals of Islam and Judaism.

Disingenous groomer is obvious.

The law would be the equivalent to not speaking to children about religion period. Bercause as it has been proven the law doesn't specify a gender identity or sexuality.

But you keep on lying Groomer.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 15, 2022, 06:31:03 PM
Greetings!

True Christian religion should be promoted to everyone. As our founding fathers believed, promoting Christianity was good for society.

Promoting fringe heretical cults is not good at all.

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

Maybe you don't like that, or agree. Well, too bad. Normal society does like it, and doesn't give a fuck if you want to cry about how the fucking gay lifestyle isn't being promoted in schools to our kids.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 15, 2022, 06:48:59 PM
...
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/278227964_2597163313751023_5859903724034985931_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=2ip-njGmjysAX8aOxEY&tn=2AB6o7C2r7xtUuW9&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_HJsRIV-PffjhaLJ9x4ODnHkawyBb4DYuUB-xL_wtb4w&oe=625F5C32)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 15, 2022, 07:00:50 PM
Greetings!

True Christian religion should be promoted to everyone. As our founding fathers believed, promoting Christianity was good for society.

Promoting fringe heretical cults is not good at all.

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

Maybe you don't like that, or agree. Well, too bad. Normal society does like it, and doesn't give a fuck if you want to cry about how the fucking gay lifestyle isn't being promoted in schools to our kids.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the small detail that government sucks at everything and will take the smallest power you give it and expand it and twist it until you are being fucked by it.

Meaning that no, government shouldn't promote ANY religion, because in the future the majority might be Muslim and you will wish for a secular government.

As for sexuality the same goes, just look at where we are and all because we gave them the power to "teach sex ed".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 08:05:16 PM
Greetings!

True Christian religion should be promoted to everyone. As our founding fathers believed, promoting Christianity was good for society.

Promoting fringe heretical cults is not good at all.

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

Maybe you don't like that, or agree. Well, too bad. Normal society does like it, and doesn't give a fuck if you want to cry about how the fucking gay lifestyle isn't being promoted in schools to our kids.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the small detail that government sucks at everything and will take the smallest power you give it and expand it and twist it until you are being fucked by it.

Meaning that no, government shouldn't promote ANY religion, because in the future the majority might be Muslim and you will wish for a secular government.

As for sexuality the same goes, just look at where we are and all because we gave them the power to "teach sex ed".

  If you make my choices what the leftists are seemingly willing to push at all costs and a Muslim flavored government (there are quite a few that work Islam into their laws without being full on Sharia) I am not so sure I would wish for that secular government.     Honestly, for all the problems I have with full fundie Sharia styled government....if the direction of "western values" continues the way it has accelerated towards....not so sure I could pick easily.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 15, 2022, 08:11:15 PM
Greetings!

True Christian religion should be promoted to everyone. As our founding fathers believed, promoting Christianity was good for society.

Promoting fringe heretical cults is not good at all.

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

Maybe you don't like that, or agree. Well, too bad. Normal society does like it, and doesn't give a fuck if you want to cry about how the fucking gay lifestyle isn't being promoted in schools to our kids.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the small detail that government sucks at everything and will take the smallest power you give it and expand it and twist it until you are being fucked by it.

Meaning that no, government shouldn't promote ANY religion, because in the future the majority might be Muslim and you will wish for a secular government.

As for sexuality the same goes, just look at where we are and all because we gave them the power to "teach sex ed".

  If you make my choices what the leftists are seemingly willing to push at all costs and a Muslim flavored government (there are quite a few that work Islam into their laws without being full on Sharia) I am not so sure I would wish for that secular government.     Honestly, for all the problems I have with full fundie Sharia styled government....if the direction of "western values" continues the way it has accelerated towards....not so sure I could pick easily.

Pacha basi, the nonce gangs in the UK... Unless you're planing on converting to Islam your children wouldn't be any more safe than under the leftist nonces. And you'd need to give up alcohol, bacon and postrate yourself 5 times a day to praise the pedophet.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 15, 2022, 08:19:01 PM
More noncery in plain day light... We know at least ONE Groomer here that is all for this shit too.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 08:26:55 PM
Greetings!

True Christian religion should be promoted to everyone. As our founding fathers believed, promoting Christianity was good for society.

Promoting fringe heretical cults is not good at all.

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

Maybe you don't like that, or agree. Well, too bad. Normal society does like it, and doesn't give a fuck if you want to cry about how the fucking gay lifestyle isn't being promoted in schools to our kids.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the small detail that government sucks at everything and will take the smallest power you give it and expand it and twist it until you are being fucked by it.

Meaning that no, government shouldn't promote ANY religion, because in the future the majority might be Muslim and you will wish for a secular government.

As for sexuality the same goes, just look at where we are and all because we gave them the power to "teach sex ed".

  If you make my choices what the leftists are seemingly willing to push at all costs and a Muslim flavored government (there are quite a few that work Islam into their laws without being full on Sharia) I am not so sure I would wish for that secular government.     Honestly, for all the problems I have with full fundie Sharia styled government....if the direction of "western values" continues the way it has accelerated towards....not so sure I could pick easily.

Pacha basi, the nonce gangs in the UK... Unless you're planing on converting to Islam your children wouldn't be any more safe than under the leftist nonces. And you'd need to give up alcohol, bacon and postrate yourself 5 times a day to praise the pedophet.

  Some of that flavoring is also heavily of the Pakistani variety.  Some of the issues assigned around Islam are also related to the cultures the folks are practicing said Islam in.   I know quite a bit about it, and I am sure I am already familiar with any bad idea you can list.   I just do not see a clear distinction between choosing those bad ideas and having to clap and cheer as a man wins another "Woman of the Year" award following the "secular" government of cult leftie weird.   

   As to the praise of a pedo....you do realize the choices presenting right?  Again, trying to say how much worse Islam would be compared to leftie nonsense continuing down its current path.... I do not think it is so clear that Islam is that much worse, or really worse at all. 

   To be completely honest, there would never be a scenario where I have to choose one of those two, but I can say if I had to choose an ally to fight alongside one against the other....my choice of an ally is getting clearer all the time.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 15, 2022, 08:38:48 PM
Greetings!

True Christian religion should be promoted to everyone. As our founding fathers believed, promoting Christianity was good for society.

Promoting fringe heretical cults is not good at all.

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

Maybe you don't like that, or agree. Well, too bad. Normal society does like it, and doesn't give a fuck if you want to cry about how the fucking gay lifestyle isn't being promoted in schools to our kids.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the small detail that government sucks at everything and will take the smallest power you give it and expand it and twist it until you are being fucked by it.

Meaning that no, government shouldn't promote ANY religion, because in the future the majority might be Muslim and you will wish for a secular government.

As for sexuality the same goes, just look at where we are and all because we gave them the power to "teach sex ed".

  If you make my choices what the leftists are seemingly willing to push at all costs and a Muslim flavored government (there are quite a few that work Islam into their laws without being full on Sharia) I am not so sure I would wish for that secular government.     Honestly, for all the problems I have with full fundie Sharia styled government....if the direction of "western values" continues the way it has accelerated towards....not so sure I could pick easily.

Pacha basi, the nonce gangs in the UK... Unless you're planing on converting to Islam your children wouldn't be any more safe than under the leftist nonces. And you'd need to give up alcohol, bacon and postrate yourself 5 times a day to praise the pedophet.

  Some of that flavoring is also heavily of the Pakistani variety.  Some of the issues assigned around Islam are also related to the cultures the folks are practicing said Islam in.   I know quite a bit about it, and I am sure I am already familiar with any bad idea you can list.   I just do not see a clear distinction between choosing those bad ideas and having to clap and cheer as a man wins another "Woman of the Year" award following the "secular" government of cult leftie weird.   

   As to the praise of a pedo....you do realize the choices presenting right?  Again, trying to say how much worse Islam would be compared to leftie nonsense continuing down its current path.... I do not think it is so clear that Islam is that much worse, or really worse at all. 

   To be completely honest, there would never be a scenario where I have to choose one of those two, but I can say if I had to choose an ally to fight alongside one against the other....my choice of an ally is getting clearer all the time.

I have never said the leftist "secular" government is a better choice than Islam, they are equally horrible.

I put secular between quotes because they aren't, they are a cult.

Unlique the leftist nonces I'm not willing to ally myself with the islamofascists to own the commies, it would be a phyrric victory. I'm also not going to ally myself with the western brand of fascism.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 08:44:04 PM
Greetings!

True Christian religion should be promoted to everyone. As our founding fathers believed, promoting Christianity was good for society.

Promoting fringe heretical cults is not good at all.

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

Maybe you don't like that, or agree. Well, too bad. Normal society does like it, and doesn't give a fuck if you want to cry about how the fucking gay lifestyle isn't being promoted in schools to our kids.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the small detail that government sucks at everything and will take the smallest power you give it and expand it and twist it until you are being fucked by it.

Meaning that no, government shouldn't promote ANY religion, because in the future the majority might be Muslim and you will wish for a secular government.

As for sexuality the same goes, just look at where we are and all because we gave them the power to "teach sex ed".

  If you make my choices what the leftists are seemingly willing to push at all costs and a Muslim flavored government (there are quite a few that work Islam into their laws without being full on Sharia) I am not so sure I would wish for that secular government.     Honestly, for all the problems I have with full fundie Sharia styled government....if the direction of "western values" continues the way it has accelerated towards....not so sure I could pick easily.

Pacha basi, the nonce gangs in the UK... Unless you're planing on converting to Islam your children wouldn't be any more safe than under the leftist nonces. And you'd need to give up alcohol, bacon and postrate yourself 5 times a day to praise the pedophet.

  Some of that flavoring is also heavily of the Pakistani variety.  Some of the issues assigned around Islam are also related to the cultures the folks are practicing said Islam in.   I know quite a bit about it, and I am sure I am already familiar with any bad idea you can list.   I just do not see a clear distinction between choosing those bad ideas and having to clap and cheer as a man wins another "Woman of the Year" award following the "secular" government of cult leftie weird.   

   As to the praise of a pedo....you do realize the choices presenting right?  Again, trying to say how much worse Islam would be compared to leftie nonsense continuing down its current path.... I do not think it is so clear that Islam is that much worse, or really worse at all. 

   To be completely honest, there would never be a scenario where I have to choose one of those two, but I can say if I had to choose an ally to fight alongside one against the other....my choice of an ally is getting clearer all the time.

I have never said the leftist "secular" government is a better choice than Islam, they are equally horrible.

I put secular between quotes because they aren't, they are a cult.

Unlique the leftist nonces I'm not willing to ally myself with the islamofascists to own the commies, it would be a phyrric victory. I'm also not going to ally myself with the western brand of fascism.

  If the USA and the ADL can make it ok to be a Nazi to fight Putin, I think I can manage to find a friend in Islam.   You also only put the bad around picking the Islamicists, so it did seem as if you implied one is "worse".  My bad.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bloody Malth on April 15, 2022, 08:50:31 PM

  I have no idea how much is set at birth, I read a study and several stories connected to same that came out in 2019 that had the genetic factors people were born with estimated to be an 8-25 percent factor in sexual orientation (though the study also said it could be more, or less, as there were no overwhelming factors they could find genetically that put factors together).  Could you link the study about the hormones in the womb?  That  makes sense, but it also seems to be a likely genetic link of some sort.  The study did say environmental factors play a bigger role, and I am sure hormones in the womb around what the mother does or experiences would certainly  qualify as an environmental factor. 

    I also think there are simply more straight kids larping as gay, but the fact is, how much sex with a man does a straight man have before we  call them gay?  It makes me think of the line about having relationships with women and sex with men.  I think the growth in identity is due to change of behaviors ( as in rewarding people for signaling a new virtue aka social engineering), and I agree the actual number of people who are same sex oriented is probably fixed and tiny as a population, as it has always been historically.

The study was published in the journal Science and covered by the New York Times. It was massive and ambitious: an international group of scientists studied nearly half a million people. At least one of the lead researchers (Dr. Benjamin Neale) is gay. They were looking for the one "gay gene" and what they found was that were a whole lot genes, perhaps thousands, that contribute to homosexuality. They estimated that genetic effects contribute 32% to homosexual behavior, although they admitted that part of that 32% were genetic effects they could not measure. Between 8% - 25% were do to single letter variants in DNA sequences.

Unsurprisingly, the study was attacked before it was even published. Not for bad science, but because "I have yet to see a compelling argument that the potential benefits outweigh its potential harms" said a queer postdoctoral student. "I deeply disagree with publishing this" said another postdoctoral student.  This is the problem with the Woke. They'd rather hide their head in the sand than acknowledge or learn truths they find uncomfortable. And these examples are from scientists, people who have supposedly devoted their lives to promotion of knowledge and who should know better. You can't expect better from the twitter mob or the loons at rpgnet.

The New York Times article
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/29/science/gay-gene-sex.html?searchResultPosition=1

The Science article
https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.aat7693
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 08:56:55 PM

  I have no idea how much is set at birth, I read a study and several stories connected to same that came out in 2019 that had the genetic factors people were born with estimated to be an 8-25 percent factor in sexual orientation (though the study also said it could be more, or less, as there were no overwhelming factors they could find genetically that put factors together).  Could you link the study about the hormones in the womb?  That  makes sense, but it also seems to be a likely genetic link of some sort.  The study did say environmental factors play a bigger role, and I am sure hormones in the womb around what the mother does or experiences would certainly  qualify as an environmental factor. 

    I also think there are simply more straight kids larping as gay, but the fact is, how much sex with a man does a straight man have before we  call them gay?  It makes me think of the line about having relationships with women and sex with men.  I think the growth in identity is due to change of behaviors ( as in rewarding people for signaling a new virtue aka social engineering), and I agree the actual number of people who are same sex oriented is probably fixed and tiny as a population, as it has always been historically.

The study was published in the journal Science and covered by the New York Times. It was massive and ambitious: an international group of scientists studied nearly half a million people. At least one of the lead researchers (Dr. Benjamin Neale) is gay. They were looking for the one "gay gene" and what they found was that were a whole lot genes, perhaps thousands, that contribute to homosexuality. They estimated that genetic effects contribute 32% to homosexual behavior, although they admitted that part of that 32% were genetic effects they could not measure. Between 8% - 25% were do to single letter variants in DNA sequences.

Unsurprisingly, the study was attacked before it was even published. Not for bad science, but because "I have yet to see a compelling argument that the potential benefits outweigh its potential harms" said a queer postdoctoral student. "I deeply disagree with publishing this" said another postdoctoral student.  This is the problem with the Woke. They'd rather hide their head in the sand than acknowledge or learn truths they find uncomfortable. And these examples are from scientists, people who have supposedly devoted their lives to promotion of knowledge and who should know better. You can't expect better from the twitter mob or the loons at rpgnet.

The New York Times article
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/29/science/gay-gene-sex.html?searchResultPosition=1

The Science article
https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.aat7693

  That is the study I was thinking of.  I did also notice the blowback it got, not because as you said of bad science, but what appeared to be inconvenient truth.  I also noticed a whole lot of the activist types stopped going on and on with a "born that way" narrative around that time as well, at the time I did not know why.  Last year when I came across the study that made more sense.   It also seems the same people are celebrating that gen z is supposed to be much more queer, or gay, or gender queer, or whatever people want to label identity....and then pretend that environment and social pressures have no effect on things like that...well at least until Florida Man declares no can talk to little kids about it any more.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 15, 2022, 09:17:55 PM
Greetings!

True Christian religion should be promoted to everyone. As our founding fathers believed, promoting Christianity was good for society.

Promoting fringe heretical cults is not good at all.

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

Maybe you don't like that, or agree. Well, too bad. Normal society does like it, and doesn't give a fuck if you want to cry about how the fucking gay lifestyle isn't being promoted in schools to our kids.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the small detail that government sucks at everything and will take the smallest power you give it and expand it and twist it until you are being fucked by it.

Meaning that no, government shouldn't promote ANY religion, because in the future the majority might be Muslim and you will wish for a secular government.

As for sexuality the same goes, just look at where we are and all because we gave them the power to "teach sex ed".

  If you make my choices what the leftists are seemingly willing to push at all costs and a Muslim flavored government (there are quite a few that work Islam into their laws without being full on Sharia) I am not so sure I would wish for that secular government.     Honestly, for all the problems I have with full fundie Sharia styled government....if the direction of "western values" continues the way it has accelerated towards....not so sure I could pick easily.

Pacha basi, the nonce gangs in the UK... Unless you're planing on converting to Islam your children wouldn't be any more safe than under the leftist nonces. And you'd need to give up alcohol, bacon and postrate yourself 5 times a day to praise the pedophet.

  Some of that flavoring is also heavily of the Pakistani variety.  Some of the issues assigned around Islam are also related to the cultures the folks are practicing said Islam in.   I know quite a bit about it, and I am sure I am already familiar with any bad idea you can list.   I just do not see a clear distinction between choosing those bad ideas and having to clap and cheer as a man wins another "Woman of the Year" award following the "secular" government of cult leftie weird.   

   As to the praise of a pedo....you do realize the choices presenting right?  Again, trying to say how much worse Islam would be compared to leftie nonsense continuing down its current path.... I do not think it is so clear that Islam is that much worse, or really worse at all. 

   To be completely honest, there would never be a scenario where I have to choose one of those two, but I can say if I had to choose an ally to fight alongside one against the other....my choice of an ally is getting clearer all the time.

I have never said the leftist "secular" government is a better choice than Islam, they are equally horrible.

I put secular between quotes because they aren't, they are a cult.

Unlique the leftist nonces I'm not willing to ally myself with the islamofascists to own the commies, it would be a phyrric victory. I'm also not going to ally myself with the western brand of fascism.

  If the USA and the ADL can make it ok to be a Nazi to fight Putin, I think I can manage to find a friend in Islam.   You also only put the bad around picking the Islamicists, so it did seem as if you implied one is "worse".  My bad.

Since we agree the leftists are horrible and need to be defeated I didn't think I needed to clarify further about them.

Furthermore, since you were talking favorably of Islam I felt it was needed to point out they aren't our friends either.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bloody Malth on April 15, 2022, 09:24:45 PM

  I have no idea how much is set at birth, I read a study and several stories connected to same that came out in 2019 that had the genetic factors people were born with estimated to be an 8-25 percent factor in sexual orientation (though the study also said it could be more, or less, as there were no overwhelming factors they could find genetically that put factors together).  Could you link the study about the hormones in the womb?  That  makes sense, but it also seems to be a likely genetic link of some sort.  The study did say environmental factors play a bigger role, and I am sure hormones in the womb around what the mother does or experiences would certainly  qualify as an environmental factor. 

    I also think there are simply more straight kids larping as gay, but the fact is, how much sex with a man does a straight man have before we  call them gay?  It makes me think of the line about having relationships with women and sex with men.  I think the growth in identity is due to change of behaviors ( as in rewarding people for signaling a new virtue aka social engineering), and I agree the actual number of people who are same sex oriented is probably fixed and tiny as a population, as it has always been historically.

The study was published in the journal Science and covered by the New York Times. It was massive and ambitious: an international group of scientists studied nearly half a million people. At least one of the lead researchers (Dr. Benjamin Neale) is gay. They were looking for the one "gay gene" and what they found was that were a whole lot genes, perhaps thousands, that contribute to homosexuality. They estimated that genetic effects contribute 32% to homosexual behavior, although they admitted that part of that 32% were genetic effects they could not measure. Between 8% - 25% were do to single letter variants in DNA sequences.

Unsurprisingly, the study was attacked before it was even published. Not for bad science, but because "I have yet to see a compelling argument that the potential benefits outweigh its potential harms" said a queer postdoctoral student. "I deeply disagree with publishing this" said another postdoctoral student.  This is the problem with the Woke. They'd rather hide their head in the sand than acknowledge or learn truths they find uncomfortable. And these examples are from scientists, people who have supposedly devoted their lives to promotion of knowledge and who should know better. You can't expect better from the twitter mob or the loons at rpgnet.

The New York Times article
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/29/science/gay-gene-sex.html?searchResultPosition=1

The Science article
https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.aat7693

  That is the study I was thinking of.  I did also notice the blowback it got, not because as you said of bad science, but what appeared to be inconvenient truth.  I also noticed a whole lot of the activist types stopped going on and on with a "born that way" narrative around that time as well, at the time I did not know why.  Last year when I came across the study that made more sense.   It also seems the same people are celebrating that gen z is supposed to be much more queer, or gay, or gender queer, or whatever people want to label identity....and then pretend that environment and social pressures have no effect on things like that...well at least until Florida Man declares no can talk to little kids about it any more.

Exactly. It should go without saying that if the most recent and comprehensive study of nature vs. nurture in homosexual proclivities, led by a gay man, shows that at most genetics account for 32%, than we can reasonably assume that current understanding of homosexual activity shows that environment is 68% of it.

I'm for equal rights and I don't want people that don't fit in the category of normal to be demonized. Just because most of the factors in homosexuality are environmental doesn't mean a person's orientation can change once they've been exposed. But neither do I want heterosexuality to be demonized as "colonialism". And that is what the far left activists are doing. On twitter certainly, but it's creeping into gaming.

None of the queer people I know in real life are as far left as social media would have us believe, unless they're gamers. Gaming has started to attract some of the most vitriolic and unhinged liberals and I'm afraid it's just going to get worse. 6th edition Dnd will probably make 4th and 2nd edition look like the OSR.

I wonder how many people on rpgnet have been banned for merely suggesting that homosexual activity may not be entirely genetic.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 15, 2022, 09:27:54 PM

  I have no idea how much is set at birth, I read a study and several stories connected to same that came out in 2019 that had the genetic factors people were born with estimated to be an 8-25 percent factor in sexual orientation (though the study also said it could be more, or less, as there were no overwhelming factors they could find genetically that put factors together).  Could you link the study about the hormones in the womb?  That  makes sense, but it also seems to be a likely genetic link of some sort.  The study did say environmental factors play a bigger role, and I am sure hormones in the womb around what the mother does or experiences would certainly  qualify as an environmental factor. 

    I also think there are simply more straight kids larping as gay, but the fact is, how much sex with a man does a straight man have before we  call them gay?  It makes me think of the line about having relationships with women and sex with men.  I think the growth in identity is due to change of behaviors ( as in rewarding people for signaling a new virtue aka social engineering), and I agree the actual number of people who are same sex oriented is probably fixed and tiny as a population, as it has always been historically.

The study was published in the journal Science and covered by the New York Times. It was massive and ambitious: an international group of scientists studied nearly half a million people. At least one of the lead researchers (Dr. Benjamin Neale) is gay. They were looking for the one "gay gene" and what they found was that were a whole lot genes, perhaps thousands, that contribute to homosexuality. They estimated that genetic effects contribute 32% to homosexual behavior, although they admitted that part of that 32% were genetic effects they could not measure. Between 8% - 25% were do to single letter variants in DNA sequences.

Unsurprisingly, the study was attacked before it was even published. Not for bad science, but because "I have yet to see a compelling argument that the potential benefits outweigh its potential harms" said a queer postdoctoral student. "I deeply disagree with publishing this" said another postdoctoral student.  This is the problem with the Woke. They'd rather hide their head in the sand than acknowledge or learn truths they find uncomfortable. And these examples are from scientists, people who have supposedly devoted their lives to promotion of knowledge and who should know better. You can't expect better from the twitter mob or the loons at rpgnet.

The New York Times article
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/29/science/gay-gene-sex.html?searchResultPosition=1

The Science article
https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.aat7693

Archived links just in case

The New York Times Article:
https://archive.is/iaLVF (https://archive.is/iaLVF)

The Science one:
https://archive.is/RVZnB (https://archive.is/RVZnB)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 09:45:46 PM
Greetings!

True Christian religion should be promoted to everyone. As our founding fathers believed, promoting Christianity was good for society.

Promoting fringe heretical cults is not good at all.

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

Maybe you don't like that, or agree. Well, too bad. Normal society does like it, and doesn't give a fuck if you want to cry about how the fucking gay lifestyle isn't being promoted in schools to our kids.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the small detail that government sucks at everything and will take the smallest power you give it and expand it and twist it until you are being fucked by it.

Meaning that no, government shouldn't promote ANY religion, because in the future the majority might be Muslim and you will wish for a secular government.

As for sexuality the same goes, just look at where we are and all because we gave them the power to "teach sex ed".

  If you make my choices what the leftists are seemingly willing to push at all costs and a Muslim flavored government (there are quite a few that work Islam into their laws without being full on Sharia) I am not so sure I would wish for that secular government.     Honestly, for all the problems I have with full fundie Sharia styled government....if the direction of "western values" continues the way it has accelerated towards....not so sure I could pick easily.

Pacha basi, the nonce gangs in the UK... Unless you're planing on converting to Islam your children wouldn't be any more safe than under the leftist nonces. And you'd need to give up alcohol, bacon and postrate yourself 5 times a day to praise the pedophet.

  Some of that flavoring is also heavily of the Pakistani variety.  Some of the issues assigned around Islam are also related to the cultures the folks are practicing said Islam in.   I know quite a bit about it, and I am sure I am already familiar with any bad idea you can list.   I just do not see a clear distinction between choosing those bad ideas and having to clap and cheer as a man wins another "Woman of the Year" award following the "secular" government of cult leftie weird.   

   As to the praise of a pedo....you do realize the choices presenting right?  Again, trying to say how much worse Islam would be compared to leftie nonsense continuing down its current path.... I do not think it is so clear that Islam is that much worse, or really worse at all. 

   To be completely honest, there would never be a scenario where I have to choose one of those two, but I can say if I had to choose an ally to fight alongside one against the other....my choice of an ally is getting clearer all the time.

I have never said the leftist "secular" government is a better choice than Islam, they are equally horrible.

I put secular between quotes because they aren't, they are a cult.

Unlique the leftist nonces I'm not willing to ally myself with the islamofascists to own the commies, it would be a phyrric victory. I'm also not going to ally myself with the western brand of fascism.

  If the USA and the ADL can make it ok to be a Nazi to fight Putin, I think I can manage to find a friend in Islam.   You also only put the bad around picking the Islamicists, so it did seem as if you implied one is "worse".  My bad.

Since we agree the leftists are horrible and need to be defeated I didn't think I needed to clarify further about them.

Furthermore, since you were talking favorably of Islam I felt it was needed to point out they aren't our friends either.

  If I have to pick between two enemies, I pick the one I can find a bit of respect for to ally with.   Bad as it may be, at least Islam has a warrior culture imbedded in it, and that at least I can respect.   But I do not remember saying anything favorable about Islam.  If anything, saying it is a hard choice between them and deranged leftists is about the furthest thing from favorable I could say about anyone.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 15, 2022, 09:48:30 PM
Greetings!

True Christian religion should be promoted to everyone. As our founding fathers believed, promoting Christianity was good for society.

Promoting fringe heretical cults is not good at all.

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

Maybe you don't like that, or agree. Well, too bad. Normal society does like it, and doesn't give a fuck if you want to cry about how the fucking gay lifestyle isn't being promoted in schools to our kids.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the small detail that government sucks at everything and will take the smallest power you give it and expand it and twist it until you are being fucked by it.

Meaning that no, government shouldn't promote ANY religion, because in the future the majority might be Muslim and you will wish for a secular government.

As for sexuality the same goes, just look at where we are and all because we gave them the power to "teach sex ed".

  If you make my choices what the leftists are seemingly willing to push at all costs and a Muslim flavored government (there are quite a few that work Islam into their laws without being full on Sharia) I am not so sure I would wish for that secular government.     Honestly, for all the problems I have with full fundie Sharia styled government....if the direction of "western values" continues the way it has accelerated towards....not so sure I could pick easily.

Pacha basi, the nonce gangs in the UK... Unless you're planing on converting to Islam your children wouldn't be any more safe than under the leftist nonces. And you'd need to give up alcohol, bacon and postrate yourself 5 times a day to praise the pedophet.

  Some of that flavoring is also heavily of the Pakistani variety.  Some of the issues assigned around Islam are also related to the cultures the folks are practicing said Islam in.   I know quite a bit about it, and I am sure I am already familiar with any bad idea you can list.   I just do not see a clear distinction between choosing those bad ideas and having to clap and cheer as a man wins another "Woman of the Year" award following the "secular" government of cult leftie weird.   

   As to the praise of a pedo....you do realize the choices presenting right?  Again, trying to say how much worse Islam would be compared to leftie nonsense continuing down its current path.... I do not think it is so clear that Islam is that much worse, or really worse at all. 

   To be completely honest, there would never be a scenario where I have to choose one of those two, but I can say if I had to choose an ally to fight alongside one against the other....my choice of an ally is getting clearer all the time.

I have never said the leftist "secular" government is a better choice than Islam, they are equally horrible.

I put secular between quotes because they aren't, they are a cult.

Unlique the leftist nonces I'm not willing to ally myself with the islamofascists to own the commies, it would be a phyrric victory. I'm also not going to ally myself with the western brand of fascism.

  If the USA and the ADL can make it ok to be a Nazi to fight Putin, I think I can manage to find a friend in Islam.   You also only put the bad around picking the Islamicists, so it did seem as if you implied one is "worse".  My bad.

Since we agree the leftists are horrible and need to be defeated I didn't think I needed to clarify further about them.

Furthermore, since you were talking favorably of Islam I felt it was needed to point out they aren't our friends either.

  If I have to pick two enemies, I pick the one I can find a bit of respect for to ally with.

Both are scorpions and you're the frog.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 09:58:32 PM
  I made an ill timed edit there.  I disagree about both being the scorpion and me being a frog.  I plan on being the scorpion in that arrangement.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 15, 2022, 10:02:34 PM
Greetings!

True Christian religion should be promoted to everyone. As our founding fathers believed, promoting Christianity was good for society.

Promoting fringe heretical cults is not good at all.

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

Maybe you don't like that, or agree. Well, too bad. Normal society does like it, and doesn't give a fuck if you want to cry about how the fucking gay lifestyle isn't being promoted in schools to our kids.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the small detail that government sucks at everything and will take the smallest power you give it and expand it and twist it until you are being fucked by it.

Meaning that no, government shouldn't promote ANY religion, because in the future the majority might be Muslim and you will wish for a secular government.

As for sexuality the same goes, just look at where we are and all because we gave them the power to "teach sex ed".

  If you make my choices what the leftists are seemingly willing to push at all costs and a Muslim flavored government (there are quite a few that work Islam into their laws without being full on Sharia) I am not so sure I would wish for that secular government.     Honestly, for all the problems I have with full fundie Sharia styled government....if the direction of "western values" continues the way it has accelerated towards....not so sure I could pick easily.

Pacha basi, the nonce gangs in the UK... Unless you're planing on converting to Islam your children wouldn't be any more safe than under the leftist nonces. And you'd need to give up alcohol, bacon and postrate yourself 5 times a day to praise the pedophet.

  Some of that flavoring is also heavily of the Pakistani variety.  Some of the issues assigned around Islam are also related to the cultures the folks are practicing said Islam in.   I know quite a bit about it, and I am sure I am already familiar with any bad idea you can list.   I just do not see a clear distinction between choosing those bad ideas and having to clap and cheer as a man wins another "Woman of the Year" award following the "secular" government of cult leftie weird.   

   As to the praise of a pedo....you do realize the choices presenting right?  Again, trying to say how much worse Islam would be compared to leftie nonsense continuing down its current path.... I do not think it is so clear that Islam is that much worse, or really worse at all. 

   To be completely honest, there would never be a scenario where I have to choose one of those two, but I can say if I had to choose an ally to fight alongside one against the other....my choice of an ally is getting clearer all the time.

I have never said the leftist "secular" government is a better choice than Islam, they are equally horrible.

I put secular between quotes because they aren't, they are a cult.

Unlique the leftist nonces I'm not willing to ally myself with the islamofascists to own the commies, it would be a phyrric victory. I'm also not going to ally myself with the western brand of fascism.

  If the USA and the ADL can make it ok to be a Nazi to fight Putin, I think I can manage to find a friend in Islam.   You also only put the bad around picking the Islamicists, so it did seem as if you implied one is "worse".  My bad.

Since we agree the leftists are horrible and need to be defeated I didn't think I needed to clarify further about them.

Furthermore, since you were talking favorably of Islam I felt it was needed to point out they aren't our friends either.

  If I have to pick between two enemies, I pick the one I can find a bit of respect for to ally with.   Bad as it may be, at least Islam has a warrior culture imbedded in it, and that at least I can respect.   But I do not remember saying anything favorable about Islam.  If anything, saying it is a hard choice between them and deranged leftists is about the furthest thing from favorable I could say about anyone.

You may not have a choice.

https://blog.islamicreliefcanada.org/matters/social-justice-in-islam/#:~:text=Social%20Justice%20in%20Islam%20is%20an%20Everyday%20Act&text=Even%20the%20distinctly%20%E2%80%9Creligious%E2%80%9D%20actions,them%20acts%20of%20social%20justice.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 10:05:04 PM
Greetings!

True Christian religion should be promoted to everyone. As our founding fathers believed, promoting Christianity was good for society.

Promoting fringe heretical cults is not good at all.

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

Maybe you don't like that, or agree. Well, too bad. Normal society does like it, and doesn't give a fuck if you want to cry about how the fucking gay lifestyle isn't being promoted in schools to our kids.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the small detail that government sucks at everything and will take the smallest power you give it and expand it and twist it until you are being fucked by it.

Meaning that no, government shouldn't promote ANY religion, because in the future the majority might be Muslim and you will wish for a secular government.

As for sexuality the same goes, just look at where we are and all because we gave them the power to "teach sex ed".

  If you make my choices what the leftists are seemingly willing to push at all costs and a Muslim flavored government (there are quite a few that work Islam into their laws without being full on Sharia) I am not so sure I would wish for that secular government.     Honestly, for all the problems I have with full fundie Sharia styled government....if the direction of "western values" continues the way it has accelerated towards....not so sure I could pick easily.

Pacha basi, the nonce gangs in the UK... Unless you're planing on converting to Islam your children wouldn't be any more safe than under the leftist nonces. And you'd need to give up alcohol, bacon and postrate yourself 5 times a day to praise the pedophet.

  Some of that flavoring is also heavily of the Pakistani variety.  Some of the issues assigned around Islam are also related to the cultures the folks are practicing said Islam in.   I know quite a bit about it, and I am sure I am already familiar with any bad idea you can list.   I just do not see a clear distinction between choosing those bad ideas and having to clap and cheer as a man wins another "Woman of the Year" award following the "secular" government of cult leftie weird.   

   As to the praise of a pedo....you do realize the choices presenting right?  Again, trying to say how much worse Islam would be compared to leftie nonsense continuing down its current path.... I do not think it is so clear that Islam is that much worse, or really worse at all. 

   To be completely honest, there would never be a scenario where I have to choose one of those two, but I can say if I had to choose an ally to fight alongside one against the other....my choice of an ally is getting clearer all the time.

I have never said the leftist "secular" government is a better choice than Islam, they are equally horrible.

I put secular between quotes because they aren't, they are a cult.

Unlique the leftist nonces I'm not willing to ally myself with the islamofascists to own the commies, it would be a phyrric victory. I'm also not going to ally myself with the western brand of fascism.

  If the USA and the ADL can make it ok to be a Nazi to fight Putin, I think I can manage to find a friend in Islam.   You also only put the bad around picking the Islamicists, so it did seem as if you implied one is "worse".  My bad.

Since we agree the leftists are horrible and need to be defeated I didn't think I needed to clarify further about them.

Furthermore, since you were talking favorably of Islam I felt it was needed to point out they aren't our friends either.

  If I have to pick between two enemies, I pick the one I can find a bit of respect for to ally with.   Bad as it may be, at least Islam has a warrior culture imbedded in it, and that at least I can respect.   But I do not remember saying anything favorable about Islam.  If anything, saying it is a hard choice between them and deranged leftists is about the furthest thing from favorable I could say about anyone.

You may not have a choice.

https://blog.islamicreliefcanada.org/matters/social-justice-in-islam/#:~:text=Social%20Justice%20in%20Islam%20is%20an%20Everyday%20Act&text=Even%20the%20distinctly%20%E2%80%9Creligious%E2%80%9D%20actions,them%20acts%20of%20social%20justice.

  Reading the Koran quite a bit, the buzzword social justice, and Islamic social justice are NOT the same thing.   Though if your point is that is camo for them to "team up" with the other SJW types, I agree about that.  I just think the whole allegiance to the rainbow flag in schools where there is a substantial number of Muslim students is going to go over very badly.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 10:16:47 PM
  I should add, that Surrah the writer in that article links is not what the actual Surrah says, at least not in my book.   It seems completely wrong, as in misnumbered chapter and section.  So...I am guessing it is fluff propaganda for SJW sorts, since Muslims will know it is wrong.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 15, 2022, 10:32:34 PM
Greetings!

True Christian religion should be promoted to everyone. As our founding fathers believed, promoting Christianity was good for society.

Promoting fringe heretical cults is not good at all.

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

Maybe you don't like that, or agree. Well, too bad. Normal society does like it, and doesn't give a fuck if you want to cry about how the fucking gay lifestyle isn't being promoted in schools to our kids.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the small detail that government sucks at everything and will take the smallest power you give it and expand it and twist it until you are being fucked by it.

Meaning that no, government shouldn't promote ANY religion, because in the future the majority might be Muslim and you will wish for a secular government.

As for sexuality the same goes, just look at where we are and all because we gave them the power to "teach sex ed".

  If you make my choices what the leftists are seemingly willing to push at all costs and a Muslim flavored government (there are quite a few that work Islam into their laws without being full on Sharia) I am not so sure I would wish for that secular government.     Honestly, for all the problems I have with full fundie Sharia styled government....if the direction of "western values" continues the way it has accelerated towards....not so sure I could pick easily.

Pacha basi, the nonce gangs in the UK... Unless you're planing on converting to Islam your children wouldn't be any more safe than under the leftist nonces. And you'd need to give up alcohol, bacon and postrate yourself 5 times a day to praise the pedophet.

  Some of that flavoring is also heavily of the Pakistani variety.  Some of the issues assigned around Islam are also related to the cultures the folks are practicing said Islam in.   I know quite a bit about it, and I am sure I am already familiar with any bad idea you can list.   I just do not see a clear distinction between choosing those bad ideas and having to clap and cheer as a man wins another "Woman of the Year" award following the "secular" government of cult leftie weird.   

   As to the praise of a pedo....you do realize the choices presenting right?  Again, trying to say how much worse Islam would be compared to leftie nonsense continuing down its current path.... I do not think it is so clear that Islam is that much worse, or really worse at all. 

   To be completely honest, there would never be a scenario where I have to choose one of those two, but I can say if I had to choose an ally to fight alongside one against the other....my choice of an ally is getting clearer all the time.

I have never said the leftist "secular" government is a better choice than Islam, they are equally horrible.

I put secular between quotes because they aren't, they are a cult.

Unlique the leftist nonces I'm not willing to ally myself with the islamofascists to own the commies, it would be a phyrric victory. I'm also not going to ally myself with the western brand of fascism.

  If the USA and the ADL can make it ok to be a Nazi to fight Putin, I think I can manage to find a friend in Islam.   You also only put the bad around picking the Islamicists, so it did seem as if you implied one is "worse".  My bad.

Since we agree the leftists are horrible and need to be defeated I didn't think I needed to clarify further about them.

Furthermore, since you were talking favorably of Islam I felt it was needed to point out they aren't our friends either.

  If I have to pick between two enemies, I pick the one I can find a bit of respect for to ally with.   Bad as it may be, at least Islam has a warrior culture imbedded in it, and that at least I can respect.   But I do not remember saying anything favorable about Islam.  If anything, saying it is a hard choice between them and deranged leftists is about the furthest thing from favorable I could say about anyone.

You may not have a choice.

https://blog.islamicreliefcanada.org/matters/social-justice-in-islam/#:~:text=Social%20Justice%20in%20Islam%20is%20an%20Everyday%20Act&text=Even%20the%20distinctly%20%E2%80%9Creligious%E2%80%9D%20actions,them%20acts%20of%20social%20justice.

  Reading the Koran quite a bit, the buzzword social justice, and Islamic social justice are NOT the same thing.   Though if your point is that is camo for them to "team up" with the other SJW types, I agree about that.  I just think the whole allegiance to the rainbow flag in schools where there is a substantial number of Muslim students is going to go over very badly.

In the UK the SJWs seem to be winning against the muslims, funny enough the "TERFs" seem to have enough political muscle to force the politicians to say that woman = Adult Human Female.

For the muslims to win they would need to be a big enough voting block, by the time you get to that point you're about to start living under sharia, because most muslims agree that should be the law of the land, and where they were born doesn't make a difference on that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 10:37:50 PM
Greetings!

True Christian religion should be promoted to everyone. As our founding fathers believed, promoting Christianity was good for society.

Promoting fringe heretical cults is not good at all.

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

Maybe you don't like that, or agree. Well, too bad. Normal society does like it, and doesn't give a fuck if you want to cry about how the fucking gay lifestyle isn't being promoted in schools to our kids.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the small detail that government sucks at everything and will take the smallest power you give it and expand it and twist it until you are being fucked by it.

Meaning that no, government shouldn't promote ANY religion, because in the future the majority might be Muslim and you will wish for a secular government.

As for sexuality the same goes, just look at where we are and all because we gave them the power to "teach sex ed".

  If you make my choices what the leftists are seemingly willing to push at all costs and a Muslim flavored government (there are quite a few that work Islam into their laws without being full on Sharia) I am not so sure I would wish for that secular government.     Honestly, for all the problems I have with full fundie Sharia styled government....if the direction of "western values" continues the way it has accelerated towards....not so sure I could pick easily.

Pacha basi, the nonce gangs in the UK... Unless you're planing on converting to Islam your children wouldn't be any more safe than under the leftist nonces. And you'd need to give up alcohol, bacon and postrate yourself 5 times a day to praise the pedophet.

  Some of that flavoring is also heavily of the Pakistani variety.  Some of the issues assigned around Islam are also related to the cultures the folks are practicing said Islam in.   I know quite a bit about it, and I am sure I am already familiar with any bad idea you can list.   I just do not see a clear distinction between choosing those bad ideas and having to clap and cheer as a man wins another "Woman of the Year" award following the "secular" government of cult leftie weird.   

   As to the praise of a pedo....you do realize the choices presenting right?  Again, trying to say how much worse Islam would be compared to leftie nonsense continuing down its current path.... I do not think it is so clear that Islam is that much worse, or really worse at all. 

   To be completely honest, there would never be a scenario where I have to choose one of those two, but I can say if I had to choose an ally to fight alongside one against the other....my choice of an ally is getting clearer all the time.

I have never said the leftist "secular" government is a better choice than Islam, they are equally horrible.

I put secular between quotes because they aren't, they are a cult.

Unlique the leftist nonces I'm not willing to ally myself with the islamofascists to own the commies, it would be a phyrric victory. I'm also not going to ally myself with the western brand of fascism.

  If the USA and the ADL can make it ok to be a Nazi to fight Putin, I think I can manage to find a friend in Islam.   You also only put the bad around picking the Islamicists, so it did seem as if you implied one is "worse".  My bad.

Since we agree the leftists are horrible and need to be defeated I didn't think I needed to clarify further about them.

Furthermore, since you were talking favorably of Islam I felt it was needed to point out they aren't our friends either.

  If I have to pick between two enemies, I pick the one I can find a bit of respect for to ally with.   Bad as it may be, at least Islam has a warrior culture imbedded in it, and that at least I can respect.   But I do not remember saying anything favorable about Islam.  If anything, saying it is a hard choice between them and deranged leftists is about the furthest thing from favorable I could say about anyone.

You may not have a choice.

https://blog.islamicreliefcanada.org/matters/social-justice-in-islam/#:~:text=Social%20Justice%20in%20Islam%20is%20an%20Everyday%20Act&text=Even%20the%20distinctly%20%E2%80%9Creligious%E2%80%9D%20actions,them%20acts%20of%20social%20justice.

  Reading the Koran quite a bit, the buzzword social justice, and Islamic social justice are NOT the same thing.   Though if your point is that is camo for them to "team up" with the other SJW types, I agree about that.  I just think the whole allegiance to the rainbow flag in schools where there is a substantial number of Muslim students is going to go over very badly.

In the UK the SJWs seem to be winning against the muslims, funny enough the "TERFs" seem to have enough political muscle to force the politicians to say that woman = Adult Human Female.

For the muslims to win they would need to be a big enough voting block, by the time you get to that point you're about to start living under sharia, because most muslims agree that should be the law of the land, and where they were born doesn't make a difference on that.

   Didn't a group of Muslim parents in some school district in the UK protest and immediately get some of the LGBT materials and lessons tossed out of school a few years ago?  SJWs don't push Muslims on stuff like that, because pushing them has a very real, and usually very immediate cost.   SJWs do not "win" against the Muslims, Muslims seem content to simply live in separate societies in the UK until something like lessons around LGBT rouse them up, and the SJWs cave in fast.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 10:53:20 PM
  But yeah both those groups are a shit show.  I do know this though, many media outlets that are not afraid even a little to lampoon or make satire of Christianity make damn sure not to draw pictures or criticize the prophet, and the reasons have nothing to do with voting blocks.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 15, 2022, 11:03:15 PM
  But yeah both those groups are a shit show.  I do know this though, many media outlets that are not afraid even a little to lampoon or make satire of Christianity make damn sure not to draw pictures or criticize the prophet, and the reasons have nothing to do with voting blocks.

Christians aren't likelly to kill them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on April 15, 2022, 11:42:24 PM
The study was published in the journal Science and covered by the New York Times. It was massive and ambitious: an international group of scientists studied nearly half a million people. At least one of the lead researchers (Dr. Benjamin Neale) is gay. They were looking for the one "gay gene" and what they found was that were a whole lot genes, perhaps thousands, that contribute to homosexuality. They estimated that genetic effects contribute 32% to homosexual behavior, although they admitted that part of that 32% were genetic effects they could not measure. Between 8% - 25% were do to single letter variants in DNA sequences.
That's how genes work. Only a handful of traits, like eye color, are controlled by a single gene, or even a small set of genes (despite what you might have learned, eye color falls into the second not the first category). Nearly every human trait is more like height or intelligence, which are linked to many hundreds if not thousands of genes. And genes aren't destiny. They're tendencies. Their expression is even more complex, and based on a host of physical and environmental factors during development.

It's much more complex than anyone imagined a generation or two ago. Anyone looking for nice, neat answers is going to be disappointed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 16, 2022, 01:53:51 AM
Your example of forcing women to wear veils doesn't seem equivalent to the issue with the Florida law. The most direct parallel would be if there were a law banning any mention of Islam or Judaism to school kids. Do you feel that such a law would be acceptable? I feel it would be discriminatory against Muslim and Jewish people.

The law would be the equivalent to not speaking to children about religion period. Bercause as it has been proven the law doesn't specify a gender identity or sexuality.

The law is unclear about whether it would allow, for example, having kids read and discuss a story about two people romantically falling in love and getting married - like Snow White or The Little Mermaid. Does reading and discussing such a story constitute a violation because it is instruction on sexual orientation? I don't believe you can answer this, and that is because the language is broad and unclear.

Having broad, unclear laws that are enforced via lawsuit is a recipe for unequal enforcement. In practice, it will be used to sue over any LGBT inclusion, but will not be used to sue over Snow White or other hetero stories.

SHARK at least agrees with me on this:

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

In some sense, I agree with SHARK that schools have traditionally been used to make kids conform to what is normal, and be good little drones who obey the government. Go pay your taxes and fight foreign wars for the system, because that's what we've always done.

I don't consider that a good thing, however. I tried to teach my students to use critical thinking, to question things rather than just regurgitating back what they're told to. My field was science, and good scientists don't come from students who only ever hear the right answers. They come from students who learn to reason between what is correct and incorrect, and that's what I tried to teach.

I think trying to make schools into places where students only ever hear about what is good and normal will eventually produce even more adults who only regurgitate what their echo chambers tell them, and we have enough of those already.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 16, 2022, 04:12:16 AM
Greetings!

True Christian religion should be promoted to everyone. As our founding fathers believed, promoting Christianity was good for society.

As a Jew in this system, no thank you.

Our Founders did in fact believe in freedom of religion. If you want to promote your religion on your own time, go right ahead. But don't be offended if you knock on my door and I tell you no thank you and then shut it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 16, 2022, 05:03:20 AM
Your example of forcing women to wear veils doesn't seem equivalent to the issue with the Florida law. The most direct parallel would be if there were a law banning any mention of Islam or Judaism to school kids. Do you feel that such a law would be acceptable? I feel it would be discriminatory against Muslim and Jewish people.

The law would be the equivalent to not speaking to children about religion period. Bercause as it has been proven the law doesn't specify a gender identity or sexuality.

The law is unclear about whether it would allow, for example, having kids read and discuss a story about two people romantically falling in love and getting married - like Snow White or The Little Mermaid. Does reading and discussing such a story constitute a violation because it is instruction on sexual orientation? I don't believe you can answer this, and that is because the language is broad and unclear.

I think the reason none of us can answer that question is because none of us are legal professionals with experience in how such bills are enforced. Are you such a legal professional? I'd like to know that detail myself, instead of posting speculation on a message board over and over again with no sign of resolution.

Quote
Having broad, unclear laws that are enforced via lawsuit is a recipe for unequal enforcement. In practice, it will be used to sue over any LGBT inclusion, but will not be used to sue over Snow White or other hetero stories.

*ahem*
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 16, 2022, 07:36:47 AM
Your example of forcing women to wear veils doesn't seem equivalent to the issue with the Florida law. The most direct parallel would be if there were a law banning any mention of Islam or Judaism to school kids. Do you feel that such a law would be acceptable? I feel it would be discriminatory against Muslim and Jewish people.

The law would be the equivalent to not speaking to children about religion period. Bercause as it has been proven the law doesn't specify a gender identity or sexuality.

The law is unclear about whether it would allow, for example, having kids read and discuss a story about two people romantically falling in love and getting married - like Snow White or The Little Mermaid. Does reading and discussing such a story constitute a violation because it is instruction on sexual orientation? I don't believe you can answer this, and that is because the language is broad and unclear.

Having broad, unclear laws that are enforced via lawsuit is a recipe for unequal enforcement. In practice, it will be used to sue over any LGBT inclusion, but will not be used to sue over Snow White or other hetero stories.

SHARK at least agrees with me on this:

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

In some sense, I agree with SHARK that schools have traditionally been used to make kids conform to what is normal, and be good little drones who obey the government. Go pay your taxes and fight foreign wars for the system, because that's what we've always done.

I don't consider that a good thing, however. I tried to teach my students to use critical thinking, to question things rather than just regurgitating back what they're told to. My field was science, and good scientists don't come from students who only ever hear the right answers. They come from students who learn to reason between what is correct and incorrect, and that's what I tried to teach.

I think trying to make schools into places where students only ever hear about what is good and normal will eventually produce even more adults who only regurgitate what their echo chambers tell them, and we have enough of those already.

The law doesn't fucking mention ANY specific sexuality or gender identity, ergo it's forbiden to speak about it period.

Yes, you're against making children into good drones, you're just for grooming them.

Why don't just own it? Why not just recognize you WANT to groom children 4-8 years old into some sexual pervertion?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on April 16, 2022, 11:20:02 AM
Your example of forcing women to wear veils doesn't seem equivalent to the issue with the Florida law. The most direct parallel would be if there were a law banning any mention of Islam or Judaism to school kids. Do you feel that such a law would be acceptable? I feel it would be discriminatory against Muslim and Jewish people.

The law would be the equivalent to not speaking to children about religion period. Bercause as it has been proven the law doesn't specify a gender identity or sexuality.

The law is unclear about whether it would allow, for example, having kids read and discuss a story about two people romantically falling in love and getting married - like Snow White or The Little Mermaid. Does reading and discussing such a story constitute a violation because it is instruction on sexual orientation? I don't believe you can answer this, and that is because the language is broad and unclear.

Having broad, unclear laws that are enforced via lawsuit is a recipe for unequal enforcement. In practice, it will be used to sue over any LGBT inclusion, but will not be used to sue over Snow White or other hetero stories.

SHARK at least agrees with me on this:

As for schools in Florida, yes, normal sexyality and normal sexual reltionships should be portrayed and promoted. That is what society has always done in our stories and literature, because HETERSEXUALITY is good and NORMAL.

Promoting being fucking gay and or trans is not normal,and it is entirely fringe.

In some sense, I agree with SHARK that schools have traditionally been used to make kids conform to what is normal, and be good little drones who obey the government. Go pay your taxes and fight foreign wars for the system, because that's what we've always done.

I don't consider that a good thing, however. I tried to teach my students to use critical thinking, to question things rather than just regurgitating back what they're told to. My field was science, and good scientists don't come from students who only ever hear the right answers. They come from students who learn to reason between what is correct and incorrect, and that's what I tried to teach.

I think trying to make schools into places where students only ever hear about what is good and normal will eventually produce even more adults who only regurgitate what their echo chambers tell them, and we have enough of those already.

The law doesn't fucking mention ANY specific sexuality or gender identity, ergo it's forbiden to speak about it period.

Yes, you're against making children into good drones, you're just for grooming them.

Why don't just own it? Why not just recognize you WANT to groom children 4-8 years old into some sexual pervertion?
Because Leftists like to feel like they’re good people and even a majority of them know that grooming kids for sexual exploitation by perverts is evil… even though that’s exactly the logical end state of Leftist policies.

The end state of Leftism is always Hell on Earth and all but a tiny sliver of the population has a point where their “eject! eject!” instinct kicks in on that nosedive into oblivion. This is normally preceded by intense cognitive dissonance as the individual tries to justify it and ultimately either decides it’s not actually evil and continues their plunge or ejects and becomes a new member of “the right” (i.e. those who no longer wish for Hell on Earth).

Justifying pedophilia is always the point in any particular dive into the abyss where just about anyone remotely sane realizes the slippery slope argument wasn’t actually a fallacy and the plunge into depravity truly is endless… that after tolerance always comes the requirement for acceptance, comes the demand for celebration, comes the force for it to be made mandatory (Big Tech is already discussing algorithms that will determine your sexuality identity better than you can for yourself… i.e. you will be scheduled for genital mutilation whether you want to be or not because a program decided it was best for you).

Even the gay people I know have already punched eject on this crap. They know their history and the fraction of a fraction of a percent whackjobs are going to turn everyone against the broader gay community that was perfectly happy with tolerance.

The only people actually pushing this crap are people who want the world to burn (as Marx famously said; “everything that exists deserves to die.”).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 16, 2022, 12:20:22 PM
Back to the grind... unf unf unf.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/karpomatic-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-and-threadban.896189/

Problematic themes are doubleplusungood and will not be tolerated, prole.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/halflight-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban.896225/

Unprovoked personal attacks? I could see negativity/threadcrapping, but the only thing close to a personal attack is the poster pointing out that the head of Onyx Path isn't spending company money wisely. Oh dear, how crass.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 16, 2022, 03:55:00 PM
Your example of forcing women to wear veils doesn't seem equivalent to the issue with the Florida law. The most direct parallel would be if there were a law banning any mention of Islam or Judaism to school kids. Do you feel that such a law would be acceptable? I feel it would be discriminatory against Muslim and Jewish people.

The law would be the equivalent to not speaking to children about religion period. Bercause as it has been proven the law doesn't specify a gender identity or sexuality.

The law is unclear about whether it would allow, for example, having kids read and discuss a story about two people romantically falling in love and getting married - like Snow White or The Little Mermaid. Does reading and discussing such a story constitute a violation because it is instruction on sexual orientation? I don't believe you can answer this, and that is because the language is broad and unclear.

I think the reason none of us can answer that question is because none of us are legal professionals with experience in how such bills are enforced. Are you such a legal professional? I'd like to know that detail myself, instead of posting speculation on a message board over and over again with no sign of resolution.

Quote
Having broad, unclear laws that are enforced via lawsuit is a recipe for unequal enforcement. In practice, it will be used to sue over any LGBT inclusion, but will not be used to sue over Snow White or other hetero stories.

*ahem*

I can only speak from California experience.

Here, a law is passed, and then regulation is essentially left to each individual school board for their district.

So for example when the rule became "Graduation is a necessary part of education and therefore schools must pay for graduation caps and gowns for student rather than insisting students pay for it themselves" each district decided what that meant. Some charged students like normal and only if a parent directly asked for a free cap and gown did the district loan them one. Some gave out loaners automatically to those on their disadvantaged student list. Some rented gowns for the entire student body. Some bought gowns for the entire student body. Some rented gowns for any who wanted it and let others buy if they wanted to buy. Some make schools pay and others make the district pay. Some make the district pay, but only if it's a bid system. It is a total hodge-podge system.

And that's over a simple, relatively non-controversial regulation.

The only way to make this stuff clear, is to give many examples in the law itself. Whatever it is you mean by the law, say that, and say it in many different ways.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 16, 2022, 03:57:06 PM
Back to the grind... unf unf unf.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/karpomatic-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-and-threadban.896189/

Problematic themes are doubleplusungood and will not be tolerated, prole.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/halflight-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban.896225/

Unprovoked personal attacks? I could see negativity/threadcrapping, but the only thing close to a personal attack is the poster pointing out that the head of Onyx Path isn't spending company money wisely. Oh dear, how crass.

I appreciate the work you do to look these things up, post a link, and summarize them. Thanks.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on April 17, 2022, 12:43:47 AM
Back to the grind... unf unf unf.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/karpomatic-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-and-threadban.896189/

Problematic themes are doubleplusungood and will not be tolerated, prole.

The complete hypocrisy on this one made me laugh. Cause Save-vs-DM can get righteously angry that the alternate reality of the setting erased native Americans from the area. But then goes on to say how Coyote and Crow is such a big damn deal.....while it's an alternate reality that erased colonization.......sigh
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kyle Aaron on April 17, 2022, 03:20:59 AM
rpg.net will think this is cool, because only someone who never games would think this is a good idea.

https://gizmodo.com/dungeons-dragons-nft-gripnr-blockchain-dnd-ttrpg-1848686984
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on April 17, 2022, 01:50:03 PM
rpg.net will think this is cool, because only someone who never games would think this is a good idea.

https://gizmodo.com/dungeons-dragons-nft-gripnr-blockchain-dnd-ttrpg-1848686984
I think I lost brain cells trying to understand why any gamer would want this.

A) why do I want someone else’s PC when the rules allow me to make my own.
B) there are finite levels in 5e D&D… a level 20 is basically at the end of its life and so near worthless. Indeed, the more decisions have been premade the less value it has.

The ONLY interesting thing about it is munching popcorn while watching it crash and burn.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 17, 2022, 06:03:10 PM
rpg.net will think this is cool, because only someone who never games would think this is a good idea.

https://gizmodo.com/dungeons-dragons-nft-gripnr-blockchain-dnd-ttrpg-1848686984
I think I lost brain cells trying to understand why any gamer would want this.

A) why do I want someone else’s PC when the rules allow me to make my own.
B) there are finite levels in 5e D&D… a level 20 is basically at the end of its life and so near worthless. Indeed, the more decisions have been premade the less value it has.

The ONLY interesting thing about it is munching popcorn while watching it crash and burn.

I couldn't keep reading the article because these guys obviously don't get why people are attracted to playing RPGs. Well, that and the art displayed by their NFT poster looked like shit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on April 17, 2022, 08:21:05 PM
rpg.net will think this is cool, because only someone who never games would think this is a good idea.

https://gizmodo.com/dungeons-dragons-nft-gripnr-blockchain-dnd-ttrpg-1848686984

Gonna disagree here on both counts. It's popular to hate on NFTs if you don't understand the tech, and a fair number of NFT projects are in no uncertain terms scams designed to separate people from their money. Consequently, I think RPG.Net will hate this even more than you do. Personally, I think this one falls into a gray area where this is a bad enough idea it will never catch on, but the general principle could be used successfully...for D&D. Let me explain.

The thing with NFTs no one talks about is that minting, modifying, and transferring NFTs requires paying transaction fees. A good NFT project needs to explain what the smart contract minting the NFTs does, and what the NFT is doing which is worth paying transaction fees. This project is easily in the top 1% of NFT projects in that regard because it actually discusses these fees. It tells you what they are doing (making characters into digital CCGs with assigned rarities), what blockchain will be hosting the project (Polygon, an L2 built on Ethereum where transactions tend to cost a few cents or less) and why you would do that (the NFT represents your PC).

As a ttRPG hobbyist, I think this is a somewhat silly project because I want to create my own character, not a pregen. And I definitely don't want to open booster packs for rare PCs. However, D&D players are kinda...dumb. They do things like roll stats in order, and that's not really that different from picking a character from a loot box. I think that's silly and I would never play that way, but people do play D&D that way. This is also a fixable problem; you just give the end-user access to the NFT mint and import a VTT character hosted on something like IPFS rather than minting characters for them. I'm willing to wager a competitor will do that.

My bottom line is that while I don't think D&D character packs are (or should) blast off to the moon in price, I can absolutely see the value of this project for some groups playing with a VTT. You're proving ownership of the character outside of a hosting network, so in theory you can take a character from one VTT and use it in another without having to worry about sending information back and forth between VTTs. This is kinda a niche use-case, at least at the moment, but it's not automatically awful. And the group certainly did a better job of communicating what they're doing and why than 99% of the NFT crypto scams out there.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 17, 2022, 08:48:54 PM
rpg.net will think this is cool, because only someone who never games would think this is a good idea.

https://gizmodo.com/dungeons-dragons-nft-gripnr-blockchain-dnd-ttrpg-1848686984
I want everyone involved to die of ass cancer.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 18, 2022, 10:33:59 AM
rpg.net will think this is cool, because only someone who never games would think this is a good idea.

https://gizmodo.com/dungeons-dragons-nft-gripnr-blockchain-dnd-ttrpg-1848686984

Gonna disagree here on both counts. It's popular to hate on NFTs if you don't understand the tech

Agreed. We see this attitude with every new development in tech. Including this type of forum right here, the computers running it and the internet communicating it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on April 18, 2022, 05:21:27 PM
So in the spirit of fairness and full disclosure, here's a rare ban from TBP that I am awfully tempted to approve of:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/impoverishedlackey-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban.896288/

Quote
Quote
Asmodeus is an elevated former angel himself, not a fallen god. He killed his former divine boss (whose minimal description sounds an awful lot like the sociopath from the Old Testament to me) and stole his power, position, and astral domain....

"whose minimal description sounds an awful lot like the sociopath from the Old Testament to me" is not only insulting to both Jews and Christians, it's also an anti-Semitic talking point used by segments of Christianity as far back as the 2nd century CE. Bluntly, it doesn't fly here, so we're giving you a week off.

God knows as a currently practicing Roman Catholic I can't pretend I'm not happy to see anti-Christian bad manners called out. But if the banhammer is a bad idea, it's a bad idea whatever it's squelching, so ruthless fairness requires me to acknowledge that calling for thicker skin from others requires me to practice it myself.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on April 18, 2022, 08:07:37 PM
So in the spirit of fairness and full disclosure, here's a rare ban from TBP that I am awfully tempted to approve of:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/impoverishedlackey-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban.896288/

Quote
Quote
Asmodeus is an elevated former angel himself, not a fallen god. He killed his former divine boss (whose minimal description sounds an awful lot like the sociopath from the Old Testament to me) and stole his power, position, and astral domain....

"whose minimal description sounds an awful lot like the sociopath from the Old Testament to me" is not only insulting to both Jews and Christians, it's also an anti-Semitic talking point used by segments of Christianity as far back as the 2nd century CE. Bluntly, it doesn't fly here, so we're giving you a week off.

God knows as a currently practicing Roman Catholic I can't pretend I'm not happy to see anti-Christian bad manners called out. But if the banhammer is a bad idea, it's a bad idea whatever it's squelching, so ruthless fairness requires me to acknowledge that calling for thicker skin from others requires me to practice it myself.

The chance of Asmodeus being able to kill the real God is laughable.

And on the other hand if you give your RPG Gods hit points then they are going to be ganked you just have to accept it going in.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on April 19, 2022, 07:49:48 PM
And on the other hand if you give your RPG Gods hit points then they are going to be ganked you just have to accept it going in.

This is exactly why in one game I'm working on, there are no "game stats" whatsoever for Powers of Light (angels, saints, devas etc.) included in the Bestiary, and the game itself admits as much.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 19, 2022, 09:17:47 PM
The law is unclear about whether it would allow, for example, having kids read and discuss a story about two people romantically falling in love and getting married - like Snow White or The Little Mermaid. Does reading and discussing such a story constitute a violation because it is instruction on sexual orientation? I don't believe you can answer this, and that is because the language is broad and unclear.

I think the reason none of us can answer that question is because none of us are legal professionals with experience in how such bills are enforced. Are you such a legal professional? I'd like to know that detail myself, instead of posting speculation on a message board over and over again with no sign of resolution.

Dude. It's not like everyone here doesn't express their opinion on everything from inflation to covid vaccines to climate change without having professional degrees in the subject. It's a freewheeling discussion forum. If you have legal analysis to link to, I'd be interested. I've read a few news articles that outline the law, but they don't seem any more definitive than other news. The bill does specify how it is enforced in the bill itself. Parents may demand changes if they don't think the law is being complied with, and if they aren't satisfied, they can directly sue. (This is lines 129-151.) The parents who may demand change and the teachers who are under it aren't legal scholars either. Here's an analysis at a legal blog, but it's no more neutral than any other:

https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/understanding-floridas-dont-say-gay-bill/


I'd be happy to agree to disagree, as long as people are clear on each others' positions - but I feel like my position isn't being accepted or misread. I'll try to restate again: For decades, the standard has been to regularly include coming-of-age, romance, courtship, marriage, and families within K-3 school topics - in fiction, biographies, foreign and historical customs, and other places - just like they are in G-rated classic Disney movies. Given that it's fine for these to appear with hetero relationships, it should be fine for the same to appear with gay relationships.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 19, 2022, 09:32:49 PM
    Agree to disagree that gay relationships need equal representation to kids k-3 to those that are hetero. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 19, 2022, 10:06:22 PM
The law is unclear about whether it would allow, for example, having kids read and discuss a story about two people romantically falling in love and getting married - like Snow White or The Little Mermaid. Does reading and discussing such a story constitute a violation because it is instruction on sexual orientation? I don't believe you can answer this, and that is because the language is broad and unclear.

I think the reason none of us can answer that question is because none of us are legal professionals with experience in how such bills are enforced. Are you such a legal professional? I'd like to know that detail myself, instead of posting speculation on a message board over and over again with no sign of resolution.

Dude. It's not like everyone here doesn't express their opinion on everything from inflation to covid vaccines to climate change without having professional degrees in the subject. It's a freewheeling discussion forum. If you have legal analysis to link to, I'd be interested. I've read a few news articles that outline the law, but they don't seem any more definitive than other news. The bill does specify how it is enforced in the bill itself. Parents may demand changes if they don't think the law is being complied with, and if they aren't satisfied, they can directly sue. (This is lines 129-151.) The parents who may demand change and the teachers who are under it aren't legal scholars either. Here's an analysis at a legal blog, but it's no more neutral than any other:

https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/understanding-floridas-dont-say-gay-bill/

Dude. My point was you've been banging on about a hypothetical with one (?) example that we're still not sure about.

For the record, I do think that parents should be able to have input on what their children are taught in public schools, and should have a legal avenue to have their concerns addressed if they're dismissed or ignored.

Quote
I'd be happy to agree to disagree, as long as people are clear on each others' positions - but I feel like my position isn't being accepted or misread. I'll try to restate again: For decades, the standard has been to regularly include coming-of-age, romance, courtship, marriage, and families within K-3 school topics - in fiction, biographies, foreign and historical customs, and other places - just like they are in G-rated classic Disney movies. Given that it's fine for these to appear with hetero relationships, it should be fine for the same to appear with gay relationships.

Unlike others here, I think you have somewhat of a point. But it's a point I'm not sure that the bill will or will not affect. That's why I asked for legal clarification isntead of more hypotheticals.

Until we know with some level of certainty that this would be an issue, I consider it a dead-end part of the conversation.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 19, 2022, 10:13:11 PM
    Agree to disagree that gay relationships need equal representation to kids k-3 to those that are hetero.

I could see the argument that if a child has a gay couple for parents, and the teacher wants that child to not feel like the "odd man out", that they should be able to put something G-Rated and not-activist fiction with a gay couple in their rotation.


Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 19, 2022, 10:30:49 PM
    Agree to disagree that gay relationships need equal representation to kids k-3 to those that are hetero.

I could see the argument that if a child has a gay couple for parents, and the teacher wants that child to not feel like the "odd man out", that they should be able to put something G-Rated and not-activist fiction with a gay couple in their rotation.

  I can also understand that homosexuality, and homosexual acts are flagrantly offensive to every major religion in the USA.  I am not a Muslim, but I am also not going to start endorsing teaching kids it is OK to draw pictures of the prophet either.   I think a kid with gay parents has been coached up to the nth degree as to how special they are long before kindergarten.  This is a consideration as to what is for the massive, overwhelming majority, many of whom also have faiths and religious beliefs that are in direct conflict with endorsing homosexuality.  Granted I do not care to see kids being forced to pray at school, I also do not think you get to wipe shit on their and their parents' core religious beliefs either.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 19, 2022, 10:36:59 PM
  As in, it is a topic best for the parents to discuss with their child.  Now if this means the new equity is to just kill off any disney movie or video for kids in k-3 that has a hetero relationship, well honestly I am fine with that too.  I think the nation has had all of that shit propaganda it can tolerate.  So toilet disney and the princess movies and I am good with it. I will take that loooong before I say it is ok to endorse gay relationships to k-3 kids.   
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 19, 2022, 10:39:24 PM
    Agree to disagree that gay relationships need equal representation to kids k-3 to those that are hetero.

I could see the argument that if a child has a gay couple for parents, and the teacher wants that child to not feel like the "odd man out", that they should be able to put something G-Rated and not-activist fiction with a gay couple in their rotation.

  I can also understand that homosexuality, and homosexual acts are flagrantly offensive to every major religion in the USA.  I am not a Muslim, but I am also not going to start endorsing teaching kids it is OK to draw pictures of the prophet either.   I think a kid with gay parents has been coached up to the nth degree as to how special they are long before kindergarten.  This is a consideration as to what is for the massive, overwhelming majority, many of whom also have faiths and religious beliefs that are in direct conflict with endorsing homosexuality.  Granted I do not care to see kids being forced to pray at school, I also do not think you get to wipe shit on their and their parents' core religious beliefs either.

Human evolution was (and in some communities, still is) flagrantly offensive to people who believed in major religions.  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butler_Act)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 19, 2022, 10:41:36 PM
    Agree to disagree that gay relationships need equal representation to kids k-3 to those that are hetero.

I could see the argument that if a child has a gay couple for parents, and the teacher wants that child to not feel like the "odd man out", that they should be able to put something G-Rated and not-activist fiction with a gay couple in their rotation.

  I can also understand that homosexuality, and homosexual acts are flagrantly offensive to every major religion in the USA.  I am not a Muslim, but I am also not going to start endorsing teaching kids it is OK to draw pictures of the prophet either.   I think a kid with gay parents has been coached up to the nth degree as to how special they are long before kindergarten.  This is a consideration as to what is for the massive, overwhelming majority, many of whom also have faiths and religious beliefs that are in direct conflict with endorsing homosexuality.  Granted I do not care to see kids being forced to pray at school, I also do not think you get to wipe shit on their and their parents' core religious beliefs either.

Human evolution was (and in some communities, still is) flagrantly offensive to people who believed in major religions.  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butler_Act)

  And it is also a topic that no one goes into in any depth for k-3.  I would also add, if you think human evolution and homosexuality are even in the same universe for religious people ( I am talking the casuals here, not the snake grabbers or the ones who dress their women like ninjas) you do not know any religious people.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 19, 2022, 10:44:51 PM
  My issue is there is a difference between tolerance and acceptance.  Tolerance I will give, and I think the vast of the majority is willing to give.  Acceptance...bridge too far, and honestly the push is for outright celebration.  So hard pass. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 19, 2022, 11:25:51 PM
    Agree to disagree that gay relationships need equal representation to kids k-3 to those that are hetero.

I could see the argument that if a child has a gay couple for parents, and the teacher wants that child to not feel like the "odd man out", that they should be able to put something G-Rated and not-activist fiction with a gay couple in their rotation.

  I can also understand that homosexuality, and homosexual acts are flagrantly offensive to every major religion in the USA.  I am not a Muslim, but I am also not going to start endorsing teaching kids it is OK to draw pictures of the prophet either.   I think a kid with gay parents has been coached up to the nth degree as to how special they are long before kindergarten.  This is a consideration as to what is for the massive, overwhelming majority, many of whom also have faiths and religious beliefs that are in direct conflict with endorsing homosexuality.  Granted I do not care to see kids being forced to pray at school, I also do not think you get to wipe shit on their and their parents' core religious beliefs either.

Human evolution was (and in some communities, still is) flagrantly offensive to people who believed in major religions.  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butler_Act)

  And it is also a topic that no one goes into in any depth for k-3.

But neither is it forbidden.

Quote
I would also add, if you think human evolution and homosexuality are even in the same universe for religious people ( I am talking the casuals here, not the snake grabbers or the ones who dress their women like ninjas) you do not know any religious people.

Now. But it certainly was a big topic for a lot of people. Now it seems quaint, as most major religions and religious people in the west have integrated human evolution into their belief systems.

The point being, I don't think that the offense angle is a productive argument against controversial topics in school.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 19, 2022, 11:34:55 PM
    Agree to disagree that gay relationships need equal representation to kids k-3 to those that are hetero.

I could see the argument that if a child has a gay couple for parents, and the teacher wants that child to not feel like the "odd man out", that they should be able to put something G-Rated and not-activist fiction with a gay couple in their rotation.

  I can also understand that homosexuality, and homosexual acts are flagrantly offensive to every major religion in the USA.  I am not a Muslim, but I am also not going to start endorsing teaching kids it is OK to draw pictures of the prophet either.   I think a kid with gay parents has been coached up to the nth degree as to how special they are long before kindergarten.  This is a consideration as to what is for the massive, overwhelming majority, many of whom also have faiths and religious beliefs that are in direct conflict with endorsing homosexuality.  Granted I do not care to see kids being forced to pray at school, I also do not think you get to wipe shit on their and their parents' core religious beliefs either.

Human evolution was (and in some communities, still is) flagrantly offensive to people who believed in major religions.  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butler_Act)

  And it is also a topic that no one goes into in any depth for k-3.

But neither is it forbidden.

Quote
I would also add, if you think human evolution and homosexuality are even in the same universe for religious people ( I am talking the casuals here, not the snake grabbers or the ones who dress their women like ninjas) you do not know any religious people.

Now. But it certainly was a big topic for a lot of people. Now it seems quaint, as most major religions and religious people in the west have integrated human evolution into their belief systems.

The point being, I don't think that the offense angle is a productive argument against controversial topics in school.

  Well...when the people who want it to be a topic are offended that it is not, it seems the perfect argument.  I think productive left the dock a long time ago.   I feel it is about time some of the people who have to constantly hear about all the offended people start feeling a little offended.  The motherfuckers who push lots of this shit, which oh so quickly turned into boys in girl's locker rooms and men playing women's sports, constantly whine about being offended.  So, offended is the perfect answer to that IMO.   I would also add, if we want to bring science into it, as you have mentioned evolution, we might as well discuss the actual amount of role genetics has in determining people's sexuality versus environment.  However that is going to get very offensive very fast for the alphabet team, and likely to be verboten in schools. 

   I guess my point is, I am finished having a good faith argument with people who also endorse castrating kids, women playing sports against men, and boys in girl's locker rooms.  My good faith is all out, and I am ready to just do what those shits do, and just fight dirty.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 20, 2022, 01:50:12 AM
Greetings!

*Laughing* In some parts of the world, if the alphabet hippo crowd attempted to get their propaganda taught in schools they would be immediately beaten to death in the parking lot. In other places, they would likely be doused in gasoline and burned alive, for the whole neighborhood to watch and enjoy. And, in other parts of the world, rough-looking bearded men in suits and driving SUV's would escort the offenders to prison for spreading homosexual propaganda.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 20, 2022, 01:59:29 AM
    Agree to disagree that gay relationships need equal representation to kids k-3 to those that are hetero.

I could see the argument that if a child has a gay couple for parents, and the teacher wants that child to not feel like the "odd man out", that they should be able to put something G-Rated and not-activist fiction with a gay couple in their rotation.

  I can also understand that homosexuality, and homosexual acts are flagrantly offensive to every major religion in the USA.  I am not a Muslim, but I am also not going to start endorsing teaching kids it is OK to draw pictures of the prophet either.   I think a kid with gay parents has been coached up to the nth degree as to how special they are long before kindergarten.  This is a consideration as to what is for the massive, overwhelming majority, many of whom also have faiths and religious beliefs that are in direct conflict with endorsing homosexuality.  Granted I do not care to see kids being forced to pray at school, I also do not think you get to wipe shit on their and their parents' core religious beliefs either.

Human evolution was (and in some communities, still is) flagrantly offensive to people who believed in major religions.  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butler_Act)

  And it is also a topic that no one goes into in any depth for k-3.

But neither is it forbidden.

Quote
I would also add, if you think human evolution and homosexuality are even in the same universe for religious people ( I am talking the casuals here, not the snake grabbers or the ones who dress their women like ninjas) you do not know any religious people.

Now. But it certainly was a big topic for a lot of people. Now it seems quaint, as most major religions and religious people in the west have integrated human evolution into their belief systems.

The point being, I don't think that the offense angle is a productive argument against controversial topics in school.

  Well...when the people who want it to be a topic are offended that it is not, it seems the perfect argument.  I think productive left the dock a long time ago.   I feel it is about time some of the people who have to constantly hear about all the offended people start feeling a little offended.  The motherfuckers who push lots of this shit, which oh so quickly turned into boys in girl's locker rooms and men playing women's sports, constantly whine about being offended.  So, offended is the perfect answer to that IMO.   I would also add, if we want to bring science into it, as you have mentioned evolution, we might as well discuss the actual amount of role genetics has in determining people's sexuality versus environment.  However that is going to get very offensive very fast for the alphabet team, and likely to be verboten in schools. 

   I guess my point is, I am finished having a good faith argument with people who also endorse castrating kids, women playing sports against men, and boys in girl's locker rooms.  My good faith is all out, and I am ready to just do what those shits do, and just fight dirty.

I get that. I feel that way sometimes myself.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 20, 2022, 02:31:46 AM
  I can also understand that homosexuality, and homosexual acts are flagrantly offensive to every major religion in the USA.  I am not a Muslim, but I am also not going to start endorsing teaching kids it is OK to draw pictures of the prophet either.   I think a kid with gay parents has been coached up to the nth degree as to how special they are long before kindergarten.  This is a consideration as to what is for the massive, overwhelming majority, many of whom also have faiths and religious beliefs that are in direct conflict with endorsing homosexuality.  Granted I do not care to see kids being forced to pray at school, I also do not think you get to wipe shit on their and their parents' core religious beliefs either.

The majority of U.S. Christians support acceptance of homosexuality, even back in 2014. 

(https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/FT_15.12.15_homosexualityChristianGroups.png)

As of 2020, support for gay marriage was at an all-time high across most denominations.

Quote
Most major religious denominations back marriage equality, too, including white mainline Protestants (79 percent), Hispanic Roman Catholics (78 percent), religious non-Christians (72 percent) Hispanic Protestants (68 percent), white Catholics (67 percent), Black Protestants (57 percent) and other Christian denominations (56 percent).

Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/support-gay-marriage-reaches-all-time-high-survey-finds-n1244143

Maybe there's been some reduction of support since 2020, but I'm sure it's still over 50% among all Christians.

Even if something is unpopular, though, that doesn't mean that any mention of it should be barred from schools. Especially in today's climate where everyone is offended by everything, do we really want schools to ban any instruction if someone finds it offensive? I shudder to think where that would leave us.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 20, 2022, 05:30:34 AM
    Agree to disagree that gay relationships need equal representation to kids k-3 to those that are hetero.

I could see the argument that if a child has a gay couple for parents, and the teacher wants that child to not feel like the "odd man out", that they should be able to put something G-Rated and not-activist fiction with a gay couple in their rotation.

Mother's day, that would also make that kid feel like the "odd man out", or father's day, so let's institute a neutral day and or bann the others.

While we're at it lets ban children calling their mothers mother and their fathers father because that would have the same effect.

And what about the much more common case of the single parent household kid? So lets ban all talk about marriages of any kind, we wouldn't want those kids feel like the "odd man out" would we?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 20, 2022, 06:50:57 AM
    Agree to disagree that gay relationships need equal representation to kids k-3 to those that are hetero.

I could see the argument that if a child has a gay couple for parents, and the teacher wants that child to not feel like the "odd man out", that they should be able to put something G-Rated and not-activist fiction with a gay couple in their rotation.

Mother's day, that would also make that kid feel like the "odd man out", or father's day, so let's institute a neutral day and or bann the others.

While we're at it lets ban children calling their mothers mother and their fathers father because that would have the same effect.

And what about the much more common case of the single parent household kid? So lets ban all talk about marriages of any kind, we wouldn't want those kids feel like the "odd man out" would we?

So these are opinions you seriously hold? Otherwise I'm not quite sure what your point is.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 20, 2022, 08:23:58 AM
  I can also understand that homosexuality, and homosexual acts are flagrantly offensive to every major religion in the USA.  I am not a Muslim, but I am also not going to start endorsing teaching kids it is OK to draw pictures of the prophet either.   I think a kid with gay parents has been coached up to the nth degree as to how special they are long before kindergarten.  This is a consideration as to what is for the massive, overwhelming majority, many of whom also have faiths and religious beliefs that are in direct conflict with endorsing homosexuality.  Granted I do not care to see kids being forced to pray at school, I also do not think you get to wipe shit on their and their parents' core religious beliefs either.

The majority of U.S. Christians support acceptance of homosexuality, even back in 2014. 

(https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/FT_15.12.15_homosexualityChristianGroups.png)

As of 2020, support for gay marriage was at an all-time high across most denominations.

Quote
Most major religious denominations back marriage equality, too, including white mainline Protestants (79 percent), Hispanic Roman Catholics (78 percent), religious non-Christians (72 percent) Hispanic Protestants (68 percent), white Catholics (67 percent), Black Protestants (57 percent) and other Christian denominations (56 percent).

Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/support-gay-marriage-reaches-all-time-high-survey-finds-n1244143

Maybe there's been some reduction of support since 2020, but I'm sure it's still over 50% among all Christians.

Even if something is unpopular, though, that doesn't mean that any mention of it should be barred from schools. Especially in today's climate where everyone is offended by everything, do we really want schools to ban any instruction if someone finds it offensive? I shudder to think where that would leave us.

  Agree to disagree. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 20, 2022, 08:46:01 AM
    Agree to disagree that gay relationships need equal representation to kids k-3 to those that are hetero.

I could see the argument that if a child has a gay couple for parents, and the teacher wants that child to not feel like the "odd man out", that they should be able to put something G-Rated and not-activist fiction with a gay couple in their rotation.

Mother's day, that would also make that kid feel like the "odd man out", or father's day, so let's institute a neutral day and or bann the others.

While we're at it lets ban children calling their mothers mother and their fathers father because that would have the same effect.

And what about the much more common case of the single parent household kid? So lets ban all talk about marriages of any kind, we wouldn't want those kids feel like the "odd man out" would we?

So these are opinions you seriously hold? Otherwise I'm not quite sure what your point is.

  That kids will find 1001 reasons to make another kid "odd man out" or flick shit their way occasionally, what now qualifies as "bullying".  I find it more productive than having programs to teach all kids how they are special snowflakes to tell them not to be shits to one another.  Next give them detailed explanations as to how jabs and crosses work, and encourage them to be as fit as they can.  This will solve 99.9 percent of "odd man out" problems.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 20, 2022, 12:12:37 PM
    Agree to disagree that gay relationships need equal representation to kids k-3 to those that are hetero.

I could see the argument that if a child has a gay couple for parents, and the teacher wants that child to not feel like the "odd man out", that they should be able to put something G-Rated and not-activist fiction with a gay couple in their rotation.

Mother's day, that would also make that kid feel like the "odd man out", or father's day, so let's institute a neutral day and or bann the others.

While we're at it lets ban children calling their mothers mother and their fathers father because that would have the same effect.

And what about the much more common case of the single parent household kid? So lets ban all talk about marriages of any kind, we wouldn't want those kids feel like the "odd man out" would we?

So these are opinions you seriously hold? Otherwise I'm not quite sure what your point is.

Besides what oggsmash said above I'm taking your argument to it's logical conclusion.

To make things worse we all know they have already done/said some of those things, to prevent some kids feel like the "odd man out".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 20, 2022, 03:00:00 PM
Disregard groomers, embrace madness.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mpswaim-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-and-threadban-violation-of-our-racism-policy.896366/

I cannot for the life of me figure out how this is racism.  Can someone explain it to me, using small words?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 20, 2022, 03:21:59 PM
    Agree to disagree that gay relationships need equal representation to kids k-3 to those that are hetero.

I could see the argument that if a child has a gay couple for parents, and the teacher wants that child to not feel like the "odd man out", that they should be able to put something G-Rated and not-activist fiction with a gay couple in their rotation.

Mother's day, that would also make that kid feel like the "odd man out", or father's day, so let's institute a neutral day and or bann the others.

While we're at it lets ban children calling their mothers mother and their fathers father because that would have the same effect.

And what about the much more common case of the single parent household kid? So lets ban all talk about marriages of any kind, we wouldn't want those kids feel like the "odd man out" would we?

So these are opinions you seriously hold? Otherwise I'm not quite sure what your point is.

Besides what oggsmash said above I'm taking your argument to it's logical conclusion.

No, you're not. Maybe if I'd said something like "We must make this kid feel good about his situation no matter the cost", you might have a point.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 20, 2022, 03:25:08 PM
    Agree to disagree that gay relationships need equal representation to kids k-3 to those that are hetero.

I could see the argument that if a child has a gay couple for parents, and the teacher wants that child to not feel like the "odd man out", that they should be able to put something G-Rated and not-activist fiction with a gay couple in their rotation.

Mother's day, that would also make that kid feel like the "odd man out", or father's day, so let's institute a neutral day and or bann the others.

While we're at it lets ban children calling their mothers mother and their fathers father because that would have the same effect.

And what about the much more common case of the single parent household kid? So lets ban all talk about marriages of any kind, we wouldn't want those kids feel like the "odd man out" would we?

So these are opinions you seriously hold? Otherwise I'm not quite sure what your point is.

  That kids will find 1001 reasons to make another kid "odd man out" or flick shit their way occasionally, what now qualifies as "bullying".  I find it more productive than having programs to teach all kids how they are special snowflakes to tell them not to be shits to one another.  Next give them detailed explanations as to how jabs and crosses work, and encourage them to be as fit as they can.  This will solve 99.9 percent of "odd man out" problems.

I wasn't talking about what the other kids do.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 20, 2022, 04:18:57 PM
Disregard groomers, embrace madness.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mpswaim-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-and-threadban-violation-of-our-racism-policy.896366/

I cannot for the life of me figure out how this is racism.  Can someone explain it to me, using small words?


  "Explicit comparisons between fantastic cultures and real ones; i.e. describing indigenous American cultures as "basically elves". See our Racism and fantasy species policy for details."

  It's racism because they have a special rule in their racism section about racism making it racism.   Smallest words I can manage.  If you are asking how is it really racism (as in any where but there) I can not help.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 20, 2022, 09:51:30 PM
Greetings!

*Laughing* In some parts of the world, if the alphabet hippo crowd attempted to get their propaganda taught in schools they would be immediately beaten to death in the parking lot. In other places, they would likely be doused in gasoline and burned alive, for the whole neighborhood to watch and enjoy. And, in other parts of the world, rough-looking bearded men in suits and driving SUV's would escort the offenders to prison for spreading homosexual propaganda.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

All of which is pretty clearly evil behavior. So what's your point?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on April 21, 2022, 12:16:08 AM
Greetings!

*Laughing* In some parts of the world, if the alphabet hippo crowd attempted to get their propaganda taught in schools they would be immediately beaten to death in the parking lot. In other places, they would likely be doused in gasoline and burned alive, for the whole neighborhood to watch and enjoy. And, in other parts of the world, rough-looking bearded men in suits and driving SUV's would escort the offenders to prison for spreading homosexual propaganda.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

All of which is pretty clearly evil behavior. So what's your point?

Proving that he’s off his rockers?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 21, 2022, 12:44:40 AM
Greetings!

*Laughing* In some parts of the world, if the alphabet hippo crowd attempted to get their propaganda taught in schools they would be immediately beaten to death in the parking lot. In other places, they would likely be doused in gasoline and burned alive, for the whole neighborhood to watch and enjoy. And, in other parts of the world, rough-looking bearded men in suits and driving SUV's would escort the offenders to prison for spreading homosexual propaganda.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

All of which is pretty clearly evil behavior. So what's your point?

Proving that he’s off his rockers?

Naw, Shark isn't crazy. He has a lot of beliefs which are not my beliefs, and he can be infuriating sometimes, but he's of plenty sound mind.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 21, 2022, 01:43:36 AM
Greetings!

My commentary was highlighting the fact that in different countries, yeah, you simply MUST be respectful towards Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism. In different countries, they take defending the faith very differently from how people here in America.

The casual attitude--and often very hostile and dismissive--of various teachers and other rainbow hippo activists towards parents and people that are concerned about what is being taught in schools--just would not fly in many other parts of the world. In many such places, the media is not on your side; the lawyers are disgusted by you; and the judges often view such alphabet attitudes with considerable resistance and opposition of their own. Traditions and the prevailing religion are seen as very important and essential for all society.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 21, 2022, 05:36:59 AM
Greetings!

*Laughing* In some parts of the world, if the alphabet hippo crowd attempted to get their propaganda taught in schools they would be immediately beaten to death in the parking lot. In other places, they would likely be doused in gasoline and burned alive, for the whole neighborhood to watch and enjoy. And, in other parts of the world, rough-looking bearded men in suits and driving SUV's would escort the offenders to prison for spreading homosexual propaganda.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

All of which is pretty clearly evil behavior. So what's your point?

That SHARK has seen more of the world than you have. California is not representative of the different cultures around the globe.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 21, 2022, 04:03:09 PM
*Laughing* In some parts of the world, if the alphabet hippo crowd attempted to get their propaganda taught in schools they would be immediately beaten to death in the parking lot. In other places, they would likely be doused in gasoline and burned alive, for the whole neighborhood to watch and enjoy. And, in other parts of the world, rough-looking bearded men in suits and driving SUV's would escort the offenders to prison for spreading homosexual propaganda.
All of which is pretty clearly evil behavior. So what's your point?
My commentary was highlighting the fact that in different countries, yeah, you simply MUST be respectful towards Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism. In different countries, they take defending the faith very differently from how people here in America.

The casual attitude--and often very hostile and dismissive--of various teachers and other rainbow hippo activists towards parents and people that are concerned about what is being taught in schools--just would not fly in many other parts of the world. In many such places, the media is not on your side; the lawyers are disgusted by you; and the judges often view such alphabet attitudes with considerable resistance and opposition of their own. Traditions and the prevailing religion are seen as very important and essential for all society.

In a lot of countries, there is no freedom of religion. People can be and are persecuted for different religious practice. In the U.S., however, freedom of religion was one of our founding principles. Of course, that has been different in practice - we have persecuted Catholics, Mormons, Jews, Hindus, and others in the past. Still, it remains something we aspire to, and I think freedom of religion is a good thing.

Further, one can be respectful of another religion without conforming to all of its laws. For example, one can offer cheeseburgers to school kids even though it isn't kosher - as long as there are still options for Jewish kids. I don't think it's necessary for everything in school to conform to Jewish law in order to be respectful of Judaism. Jewish parents can teach their kids that it's wrong to eat non-kosher food, even though other kids at school eat them.

I feel the same thing is true about other topics, like evolution, or divorce, or gay people. One can be respectful of other religious practice without demanding that everyone conform to the religious laws even if they don't belong. At a public school, kids will interact with kids of other religions, and learn about how other families are different than theirs. That's inherent in going to a public school with freedom of religion.

I think that's a hell of a lot better than what is done in Iran and other places with no religious freedom.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 21, 2022, 04:28:55 PM
  Well, till you go to light the christmas tree and lawsuits start flying.  I get tired of mealy mouthed dishonesty.  Lefties are shitting themselves because something that looked the least bit like actual push back instead of slowing the march for a change popped out.  They shit even further that the groomer tag is sticking (which if you want to mislabel the bill dont say gay, do not be surprised when the other side comes up with a better tag for it).   I say maybe it is just time to split the union and let the folks who want to live by one set of rules go one way, and let the others go the other way.  We can divide the debt, trade, allow travel, come up with our own immigration policies, etc.  Done with this crapfest. 


    It's just marriage.  Now it's boys in girl's locker rooms.  People are shitting their pants over not discussing sexuality with kids who think they are fire trucks or dinosaurs some times.   Sort of all done arguing.  Let's just get the amicable divorce papers filed.

  That divorce could be avoided with a return to much stronger state's rights though, and that could work out better short term.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 21, 2022, 05:07:16 PM
Greetings!

I believe that it would be very nice if our school districts and schools weren't seemingly so full of cock-sucking cultists that think it's all fine and dandy to fuck kids. Kids don't need to be sexualized by scumbag kiddie-fuckers. Kids do not need to be talked to about sex or gender or what have you--and especially not being groomed by gays and other sexual deviants.

And I don't care if someone disagrees. Pump that shit into someone's children and you fuckers deserve whatever comes your way.

I think it is great that parents all over the land are getting angry and in your face, and making teachers, superintendents and schoolboards fucking squirm. Watch them like a hawk. Throw out all of the perverted school "curriculum". The scum don't like it? Fire them, or, some of them might suffer more consequences for their deviant behavior. Good. I imagine lots of parents go fucking ballistic when they read what is being read to, and taught to, kids in grade school. I've heard it. The sick, ass-fucking gay sex, the goddamn lesbians, the fucking abortions, kids fucking like crazy. Sex and all kinds of perversion being pumped into kids. It's fucking bullshit.

I've seen schoolboards try and shut down and shush parents from reading from the actual books being pumped to kids in 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th grade.

Perverted fucks need to be fed to the sharks.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 21, 2022, 05:44:35 PM
Greetings!

My commentary was highlighting the fact that in different countries, yeah, you simply MUST be respectful towards Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism. In different countries, they take defending the faith very differently from how people here in America.

The casual attitude--and often very hostile and dismissive--of various teachers and other rainbow hippo activists towards parents and people that are concerned about what is being taught in schools--just would not fly in many other parts of the world. In many such places, the media is not on your side; the lawyers are disgusted by you; and the judges often view such alphabet attitudes with considerable resistance and opposition of their own. Traditions and the prevailing religion are seen as very important and essential for all society.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I just returned from Belfast, where every school is doubled. There is one school specifically for Catholics, and another school specifically for protestants. About 30% of the schools are our equivalent of a charter school (which is a new movement) - only the charter is to be "any" religion and not one of of those two specifically.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 21, 2022, 05:45:12 PM
Greetings!

*Laughing* In some parts of the world, if the alphabet hippo crowd attempted to get their propaganda taught in schools they would be immediately beaten to death in the parking lot. In other places, they would likely be doused in gasoline and burned alive, for the whole neighborhood to watch and enjoy. And, in other parts of the world, rough-looking bearded men in suits and driving SUV's would escort the offenders to prison for spreading homosexual propaganda.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

All of which is pretty clearly evil behavior. So what's your point?

That SHARK has seen more of the world than you have. California is not representative of the different cultures around the globe.

When did I say or imply it was? Again, just returned from three nations which are different than ours in this respect.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 21, 2022, 06:16:08 PM
Fuck it. I'm wasting my breath.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 22, 2022, 07:55:52 AM
More political policing from the TBP thought division.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/lleu-2021-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-two-day-ban.896405/

Any problematic discussion is doubleplusungood wrongthink and must be banned, citizen. Jeez.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/whizbang-dustyboots-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban-and-threadban-unneeded-snarkiness.896418/

Only mods are allowed to be snotty or snarky, prole. Get in the bag.

(Not even an A-game thread, either. But then, Bcaugust has always been a whiny punk.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on April 22, 2022, 09:17:11 AM
I believe that it would be very nice if our school districts and schools weren't seemingly so full of cock-sucking cultists that think it's all fine and dandy to fuck kids. Kids don't need to be sexualized by scumbag kiddie-fuckers. Kids do not need to be talked to about sex or gender or what have you--and especially not being groomed by gays and other sexual deviants.
Even peace, love, forgiveness and second chances Jesus said if you want to do that to kids that being drowned in the sea with a millstone around your neck to drag you into the depths before even attempting the act would be more merciful than what he would do to someone who actually committed it.

This is the thing about nihilism; core tenant of Leftism... is that it drives its believers to ever more extreme acts to try and fill up that emptiness within them and that always ends up with doing unspeakable things to those that the vast majority of the population regard as innocent because that is the ultimate transgression against those they blame for their misery.

That's also, invariably, when enough of the normies who just want to be left alone to raise their families have had enough of the nihilistic bullshit and in the backlash end up pushing everyone deemed deviant (whether they supported the child abusers or not) back into the shadows and closets for several generations.

History is a pendulum. Similar things to this have happened before and will happen again. The main difference this time is the the Leftists have pushed the pendulum so far in an effort to keep it from swing back that when they finally lose control its swing back is going to be devastating.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 22, 2022, 11:37:32 AM
*Laughing* In some parts of the world, if the alphabet hippo crowd attempted to get their propaganda taught in schools they would be immediately beaten to death in the parking lot. In other places, they would likely be doused in gasoline and burned alive, for the whole neighborhood to watch and enjoy. And, in other parts of the world, rough-looking bearded men in suits and driving SUV's would escort the offenders to prison for spreading homosexual propaganda.
All of which is pretty clearly evil behavior. So what's your point?
My commentary was highlighting the fact that in different countries, yeah, you simply MUST be respectful towards Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism. In different countries, they take defending the faith very differently from how people here in America.

The casual attitude--and often very hostile and dismissive--of various teachers and other rainbow hippo activists towards parents and people that are concerned about what is being taught in schools--just would not fly in many other parts of the world. In many such places, the media is not on your side; the lawyers are disgusted by you; and the judges often view such alphabet attitudes with considerable resistance and opposition of their own. Traditions and the prevailing religion are seen as very important and essential for all society.

In a lot of countries, there is no freedom of religion. People can be and are persecuted for different religious practice. In the U.S., however, freedom of religion was one of our founding principles. Of course, that has been different in practice - we have persecuted Catholics, Mormons, Jews, Hindus, and others in the past. Still, it remains something we aspire to, and I think freedom of religion is a good thing.

Further, one can be respectful of another religion without conforming to all of its laws. For example, one can offer cheeseburgers to school kids even though it isn't kosher - as long as there are still options for Jewish kids. I don't think it's necessary for everything in school to conform to Jewish law in order to be respectful of Judaism. Jewish parents can teach their kids that it's wrong to eat non-kosher food, even though other kids at school eat them.

I feel the same thing is true about other topics, like evolution, or divorce, or gay people. One can be respectful of other religious practice without demanding that everyone conform to the religious laws even if they don't belong. At a public school, kids will interact with kids of other religions, and learn about how other families are different than theirs. That's inherent in going to a public school with freedom of religion.

I think that's a hell of a lot better than what is done in Iran and other places with no religious freedom.

Or in the west, where grooming kids into the woke cult is defended even by "Christians". Where pushing kids 5-8 to question their gender and sexuality is deffended by those same "Christians" by conflating it with questioning authority/facts.

We don't have freedom of religion, we have an official cult and we have to respect it and the religion of pieces or else.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 22, 2022, 11:41:25 AM
Greetings!

I believe that it would be very nice if our school districts and schools weren't seemingly so full of cock-sucking cultists that think it's all fine and dandy to fuck kids. Kids don't need to be sexualized by scumbag kiddie-fuckers. Kids do not need to be talked to about sex or gender or what have you--and especially not being groomed by gays and other sexual deviants.

And I don't care if someone disagrees. Pump that shit into someone's children and you fuckers deserve whatever comes your way.

I think it is great that parents all over the land are getting angry and in your face, and making teachers, superintendents and schoolboards fucking squirm. Watch them like a hawk. Throw out all of the perverted school "curriculum". The scum don't like it? Fire them, or, some of them might suffer more consequences for their deviant behavior. Good. I imagine lots of parents go fucking ballistic when they read what is being read to, and taught to, kids in grade school. I've heard it. The sick, ass-fucking gay sex, the goddamn lesbians, the fucking abortions, kids fucking like crazy. Sex and all kinds of perversion being pumped into kids. It's fucking bullshit.

I've seen schoolboards try and shut down and shush parents from reading from the actual books being pumped to kids in 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th grade.

Perverted fucks need to be fed to the sharks.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Now, now there hermano, what have the poor sharks done to you? Just fire up the wood chippers.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 22, 2022, 04:02:26 PM
I believe that it would be very nice if our school districts and schools weren't seemingly so full of cock-sucking cultists that think it's all fine and dandy to fuck kids. Kids don't need to be sexualized by scumbag kiddie-fuckers. Kids do not need to be talked to about sex or gender or what have you--and especially not being groomed by gays and other sexual deviants.

And I don't care if someone disagrees. Pump that shit into someone's children and you fuckers deserve whatever comes your way.

There's a disconnect here. ​I'm horrified by child sexual abuse, and want to stop it as much as possible. As I said, I think this means that kids need to be taught to report sexual abuse to the authorities. How do you think it should be stopped?

In general, I can't reconcile what you're saying with how I raised my own kid. I wouldn't want anyone molesting or abusing him, which is why I support telling kids like him that their bodies are their own, and to report it if anyone tries to molest or abuse them.

I can't follow what you're saying here compared to what I've said. Are you saying that how I raised my own kid is being sexualized and/or groomed?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on April 22, 2022, 04:09:09 PM
While certain insults are specifically right vs left or vice versa, I find that calling others  “pedophile” or “anti democratic” is very popular on both sides.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on April 22, 2022, 04:27:11 PM
While certain insults are specifically right vs left or vice versa, I find that calling others  “pedophile” or “anti democratic” is very popular on both sides.

Really?

I would have put money on Marxist cock sucker.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on April 22, 2022, 04:51:13 PM
While certain insults are specifically right vs left or vice versa, I find that calling others  “pedophile” or “anti democratic” is very popular on both sides.

Really?

I would have put money on Marxist cock sucker.

Well, that’s obviously one of the specific right vs left ones.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 22, 2022, 06:00:16 PM
I believe that it would be very nice if our school districts and schools weren't seemingly so full of cock-sucking cultists that think it's all fine and dandy to fuck kids. Kids don't need to be sexualized by scumbag kiddie-fuckers. Kids do not need to be talked to about sex or gender or what have you--and especially not being groomed by gays and other sexual deviants.

And I don't care if someone disagrees. Pump that shit into someone's children and you fuckers deserve whatever comes your way.

There's a disconnect here. ​I'm horrified by child sexual abuse, and want to stop it as much as possible. As I said, I think this means that kids need to be taught to report sexual abuse to the authorities. How do you think it should be stopped?

In general, I can't reconcile what you're saying with how I raised my own kid. I wouldn't want anyone molesting or abusing him, which is why I support telling kids like him that their bodies are their own, and to report it if anyone tries to molest or abuse them.

I can't follow what you're saying here compared to what I've said. Are you saying that how I raised my own kid is being sexualized and/or groomed?

Because that's the same as telling children 5-8 that they might not be a boy or a girl or they can be anything and maybe they are one of the 700 invented genders (because we all know children don't want to feel special therefore they would choose to be vanilla) or that they may be gay/bi/lesbian and to describe to them or worst yet show them graphic images as to how gays fuck. (And I don't want children watching hetero porn either).

You keep equivocating and conflating stuff that has nothing to do with what's being discused to muddy the waters.

You keep doing that to provide cover for the groomers.

Does that make you a groomer? Probably not.

Does that make you a pedo friendly "Christian"? Absolutely.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 22, 2022, 09:36:33 PM
While certain insults are specifically right vs left or vice versa, I find that calling others  “pedophile” or “anti democratic” is very popular on both sides.

True that.

I also find that when people call others "cock suckers" as an insult, they're usually closet queers. Which is OK in my book, though I hope for their sake they find a time in their lives where they are comfortable coming out.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 22, 2022, 10:42:11 PM
While certain insults are specifically right vs left or vice versa, I find that calling others  “pedophile” or “anti democratic” is very popular on both sides.

True that.

I also find that when people call others "cock suckers" as an insult, they're usually closet queers. Which is OK in my book, though I hope for their sake they find a time in their lives where they are comfortable coming out.

Zing!

Can you see Mistwell doing the finger guns at the monitor screen? Yeah. Same here.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 22, 2022, 10:45:24 PM
While certain insults are specifically right vs left or vice versa, I find that calling others  “pedophile” or “anti democratic” is very popular on both sides.

True that.

I also find that when people call others "cock suckers" as an insult, they're usually closet queers. Which is OK in my book, though I hope for their sake they find a time in their lives where they are comfortable coming out.

Greetings!

*Laughing* I like calling Leftists, Liberals, and the whole rainbow hippo crowd Marxist cock-suckers because so often they literally engage in exactly that, or figuratively when it comes to them being weak, feminized pussies. Furthermore, it also seems to be a prevailing mind-set of most of them being *Feminists"--and most of them also loving Marxism.

That makes them feminized, cock-sucking Marxist pussies to me. They are like disgusting, diseased rats, scheming and chewing, to corrupt not merely our own Republic, but good people and societies everywhere.

PLUS--it subliminally communicates symbology to their own consciousness that reflects their deep inner shame and identity of worthless nihilists because they have failed at life. They mask their deep-rooted feelings of inferiority and shame often by adopting a facade of smug arrogance--but their own philosophy, their own actions, generally relect the truth they struggle all their lives to deny, that they have always been weak losers. They have always been weak, pathetic, feminized cucks. They so often bounce between yearning to be on their knees, serving some master, or elevating themselves atop some dias as the "enlightened elite" to rule over the masses. Deep down, so manyof them love Marxism because they also love tyranny. They have often seen themselves as the elite cream at the top, born to rule over the unwashed masses of the neanderthal public.

In reality, they are the dog shit that the Neanderthals wipe off from their boots.

Marxist cock-suckers--or cock-sucking Marxists--is an appropriate term for them.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yancy on April 22, 2022, 11:06:24 PM

I also find that when people call others "cock suckers" as an insult, they're usually closet queers.

Zing!

Can you see Mistwell doing the finger guns at the monitor screen? Yeah. Same here.

Yeah he really owned the closet queers there, Grandpa Mistwell, no time on the clock, three points, nothing but net, and all the poor fag-a-roos can do now is look at the scoreboard in utter dejection :/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: fixable on April 23, 2022, 03:42:21 AM
I believe that it would be very nice if our school districts and schools weren't seemingly so full of cock-sucking cultists that think it's all fine and dandy to fuck kids. Kids don't need to be sexualized by scumbag kiddie-fuckers. Kids do not need to be talked to about sex or gender or what have you--and especially not being groomed by gays and other sexual deviants.

And I don't care if someone disagrees. Pump that shit into someone's children and you fuckers deserve whatever comes your way.

There's a disconnect here. ​I'm horrified by child sexual abuse, and want to stop it as much as possible. As I said, I think this means that kids need to be taught to report sexual abuse to the authorities. How do you think it should be stopped?

In general, I can't reconcile what you're saying with how I raised my own kid. I wouldn't want anyone molesting or abusing him, which is why I support telling kids like him that their bodies are their own, and to report it if anyone tries to molest or abuse them.

I can't follow what you're saying here compared to what I've said. Are you saying that how I raised my own kid is being sexualized and/or groomed?

Because that's the same as telling children 5-8 that they might not be a boy or a girl or they can be anything and maybe they are one of the 700 invented genders (because we all know children don't want to feel special therefore they would choose to be vanilla) or that they may be gay/bi/lesbian and to describe to them or worst yet show them graphic images as to how gays fuck. (And I don't want children watching hetero porn either).

You keep equivocating and conflating stuff that has nothing to do with what's being discused to muddy the waters.

You keep doing that to provide cover for the groomers.

Does that make you a groomer? Probably not.

Does that make you a pedo friendly "Christian"? Absolutely.
Lol. No one is grooming anyone. You are living in a fantasy. I see how someone who disagrees with you becomes a pedo friendly person.

Do you even think through what you say? Or do you just assume that anyone who does not believe in your rhetoric is a pedophile? Do you realize how harmful even falsely accusing someone of pedophilea can be to them? Or do you not care and you are willing to commit libel against anyone you dislike? You are willing to ruin someone else's life because you dislike them?

What authority do you have to declare another person a pedo friendly person?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on April 23, 2022, 08:26:28 AM
What authority do you have to declare another person a pedo friendly person?
Eyes to read and ears to hear. By their own words they condemn themselves.

You, for example, should just admit to being Rhyden’s sock account and be done with it. Your posting style is identical.

Either that or the Left finally has finally perfected their factory for producing talking-point spewing pro-groomer clones.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 23, 2022, 08:29:42 AM
 I guess since lefties have decided to call anyone to the right of Mao nazi or fascist, it only fits that finally folks on the right have decided to just call all lefties pedophiles.  The reaction is priceless. Tossing around nazi/racist/-ist is so easy, but catching that pedo insult seems to be hard.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 23, 2022, 09:11:41 AM
While certain insults are specifically right vs left or vice versa, I find that calling others  “pedophile” or “anti democratic” is very popular on both sides.

True that.

I also find that when people call others "cock suckers" as an insult, they're usually closet queers. Which is OK in my book, though I hope for their sake they find a time in their lives where they are comfortable coming out.

Greetings!

*Laughing* I like calling Leftists, Liberals, and the whole rainbow hippo crowd Marxist cock-suckers because so often they literally engage in exactly that, or figuratively when it comes to them being weak, feminized pussies. Furthermore, it also seems to be a prevailing mind-set of most of them being *Feminists"--and most of them also loving Marxism.

That makes them feminized, cock-sucking Marxist pussies to me. They are like disgusting, diseased rats, scheming and chewing, to corrupt not merely our own Republic, but good people and societies everywhere.

PLUS--it subliminally communicates symbology to their own consciousness that reflects their deep inner shame and identity of worthless nihilists because they have failed at life. They mask their deep-rooted feelings of inferiority and shame often by adopting a facade of smug arrogance--but their own philosophy, their own actions, generally relect the truth they struggle all their lives to deny, that they have always been weak losers. They have always been weak, pathetic, feminized cucks. They so often bounce between yearning to be on their knees, serving some master, or elevating themselves atop some dias as the "enlightened elite" to rule over the masses. Deep down, so manyof them love Marxism because they also love tyranny. They have often seen themselves as the elite cream at the top, born to rule over the unwashed masses of the neanderthal public.

In reality, they are the dog shit that the Neanderthals wipe off from their boots.

Marxist cock-suckers--or cock-sucking Marxists--is an appropriate term for them.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I just suspect you think about penises in your mouth a lot. I've seen that happen before - the guy who obsessively talks about others doing that, who secretly was sending the message about what was on his mind all along but he was too ashamed to admit it or too afraid of people around him judging him for it.

IF that's the case, just know I won't care. There are conservative gay people. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 23, 2022, 09:15:27 AM
I guess since lefties have decided to call anyone to the right of Mao nazi or fascist, it only fits that finally folks on the right have decided to just call all lefties pedophiles.  The reaction is priceless. Tossing around nazi/racist/-ist is so easy, but catching that pedo insult seems to be hard.

I mean, I see your point and it's not a bad one. My fear is that the harm of calling everyone a nazi was to diminish what it actually meant to be a nazi and to diminish the holocaust. And I absolutely think that has happened - the meaning of a real nazi is meaningfully reduced in society today because of that behavior you described.

I fear that will now happen with pedophiles. And that would be very bad. Diminishing the meaning of that accusation would not be a good result from this.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 23, 2022, 09:26:18 AM
While certain insults are specifically right vs left or vice versa, I find that calling others  “pedophile” or “anti democratic” is very popular on both sides.

True that.

I also find that when people call others "cock suckers" as an insult, they're usually closet queers. Which is OK in my book, though I hope for their sake they find a time in their lives where they are comfortable coming out.

Greetings!

*Laughing* I like calling Leftists, Liberals, and the whole rainbow hippo crowd Marxist cock-suckers because so often they literally engage in exactly that, or figuratively when it comes to them being weak, feminized pussies. Furthermore, it also seems to be a prevailing mind-set of most of them being *Feminists"--and most of them also loving Marxism.

That makes them feminized, cock-sucking Marxist pussies to me. They are like disgusting, diseased rats, scheming and chewing, to corrupt not merely our own Republic, but good people and societies everywhere.

PLUS--it subliminally communicates symbology to their own consciousness that reflects their deep inner shame and identity of worthless nihilists because they have failed at life. They mask their deep-rooted feelings of inferiority and shame often by adopting a facade of smug arrogance--but their own philosophy, their own actions, generally relect the truth they struggle all their lives to deny, that they have always been weak losers. They have always been weak, pathetic, feminized cucks. They so often bounce between yearning to be on their knees, serving some master, or elevating themselves atop some dias as the "enlightened elite" to rule over the masses. Deep down, so manyof them love Marxism because they also love tyranny. They have often seen themselves as the elite cream at the top, born to rule over the unwashed masses of the neanderthal public.

In reality, they are the dog shit that the Neanderthals wipe off from their boots.

Marxist cock-suckers--or cock-sucking Marxists--is an appropriate term for them.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I just suspect you think about penises in your mouth a lot. I've seen that happen before - the guy who obsessively talks about others doing that, who secretly was sending the message about what was on his mind all along but he was too ashamed to admit it or too afraid of people around him judging him for it.

IF that's the case, just know I won't care. There are conservative gay people.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Yeah, right, Mistwell.

My imagination isn't anywhere near so vivid or sophisticated as what you suggest, Mistwell. I'm a simple-minded, straight-shooting neanderthal. I am not obsessed with dick in my mouth--that seems to be something that so many pussy Leftists love thinking about, because so many pf them are gay, or "Trans". Even the ostensibly "Hetero" Leftists are often bisexual and switch-hitters. They like sucking that candy and getting drilled for oil, too.

I use the term as I said. Also with a bit of extra joy because it makes Leftists squirm. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2022, 02:17:12 PM
I believe that it would be very nice if our school districts and schools weren't seemingly so full of cock-sucking cultists that think it's all fine and dandy to fuck kids. Kids don't need to be sexualized by scumbag kiddie-fuckers. Kids do not need to be talked to about sex or gender or what have you--and especially not being groomed by gays and other sexual deviants.

And I don't care if someone disagrees. Pump that shit into someone's children and you fuckers deserve whatever comes your way.

There's a disconnect here. ​I'm horrified by child sexual abuse, and want to stop it as much as possible. As I said, I think this means that kids need to be taught to report sexual abuse to the authorities. How do you think it should be stopped?

In general, I can't reconcile what you're saying with how I raised my own kid. I wouldn't want anyone molesting or abusing him, which is why I support telling kids like him that their bodies are their own, and to report it if anyone tries to molest or abuse them.

I can't follow what you're saying here compared to what I've said. Are you saying that how I raised my own kid is being sexualized and/or groomed?

Because that's the same as telling children 5-8 that they might not be a boy or a girl or they can be anything and maybe they are one of the 700 invented genders (because we all know children don't want to feel special therefore they would choose to be vanilla) or that they may be gay/bi/lesbian and to describe to them or worst yet show them graphic images as to how gays fuck. (And I don't want children watching hetero porn either).

You keep equivocating and conflating stuff that has nothing to do with what's being discused to muddy the waters.

You keep doing that to provide cover for the groomers.

Does that make you a groomer? Probably not.

Does that make you a pedo friendly "Christian"? Absolutely.
Lol. No one is grooming anyone. You are living in a fantasy. I see how someone who disagrees with you becomes a pedo friendly person.

Do you even think through what you say? Or do you just assume that anyone who does not believe in your rhetoric is a pedophile? Do you realize how harmful even falsely accusing someone of pedophilea can be to them? Or do you not care and you are willing to commit libel against anyone you dislike? You are willing to ruin someone else's life because you dislike them?

What authority do you have to declare another person a pedo friendly person?

By their fruits you shall know them.

Funny, a cock-sucking-marxist demanding we refrain from calling someone a pedo because we might ruin their life...

Suck it up buttercup, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. You fuckers have decades calling anyone racist/fascist/sexist/Xphobic without ANY evidence and ruining their lives. We at least wait to have their own words/actions to back up our claims.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2022, 02:19:44 PM
I guess since lefties have decided to call anyone to the right of Mao nazi or fascist, it only fits that finally folks on the right have decided to just call all lefties pedophiles.  The reaction is priceless. Tossing around nazi/racist/-ist is so easy, but catching that pedo insult seems to be hard.

I mean, I see your point and it's not a bad one. My fear is that the harm of calling everyone a nazi was to diminish what it actually meant to be a nazi and to diminish the holocaust. And I absolutely think that has happened - the meaning of a real nazi is meaningfully reduced in society today because of that behavior you described.

I fear that will now happen with pedophiles. And that would be very bad. Diminishing the meaning of that accusation would not be a good result from this.

The only ones calling everything and everyone pedos are the leftists, and have been doing so for years, just take a look at what they say about any anime/manga.

Not the same to call pedos or groomers to pedos and groomers intent on showing porn to small children.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Garry G on April 23, 2022, 03:28:17 PM
To be fair most paedophilia is shown to be heterosexual. Given this the pro-groomer faction is more likely the straights wanting to keep the kids for themselves. Does this seem like a good argument, of course not. Accusing anybody of being into grooming because of sexuality is silly and just makes you look glaikit.

As for Sharks obsession with cock-sucking it's not fair to call him closeted he's just a bit narrow minded and that's okay. I've known many people, both men and women, who were excellent at sucking cocks and we would gather around a table drinking fine whiskey andsmokie cigars whilst extolling how fine we all were. Perhaps he just needs to broaden his horizons.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yancy on April 23, 2022, 04:19:45 PM
I also find that when people call others "cock suckers" as an insult, they're usually closet queers.

Grandpa ranting and raving about the fags again :/

To be fair most paedophilia is shown to be heterosexual.

Except in your case? OK groomer.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Garry G on April 23, 2022, 05:39:33 PM

To be fair most paedophilia is shown to be heterosexual.

Except in your case? OK groomer.

You're big on debate eh?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on April 23, 2022, 06:18:38 PM
You're big on debate eh?

Your user id and the topic unfortunately conjures up memories of this "fine" fellow.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Gary_Glitter_-_TopPop_1974_5.png)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Garry G on April 23, 2022, 06:58:25 PM
The famous heterosexual groomer of young girls.

Also different first name to me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 23, 2022, 07:39:15 PM
To be fair most paedophilia is shown to be heterosexual. Given this the pro-groomer faction is more likely the straights wanting to keep the kids for themselves. Does this seem like a good argument, of course not. Accusing anybody of being into grooming because of sexuality is silly and just makes you look glaikit.

As for Sharks obsession with cock-sucking it's not fair to call him closeted he's just a bit narrow minded and that's okay. I've known many people, both men and women, who were excellent at sucking cocks and we would gather around a table drinking fine whiskey andsmokie cigars whilst extolling how fine we all were. Perhaps he just needs to broaden his horizons.

  To be fair about 98 percent of the population is shown to be heterosexual.  I wonder if 98 percent of the pedo activity is?  Wondering aside, of course when the massive overwhelming proportion of the population is hetero, sex offenses are going to be hetero in nature. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2022, 09:21:15 PM
To be fair most paedophilia is shown to be heterosexual. Given this the pro-groomer faction is more likely the straights wanting to keep the kids for themselves. Does this seem like a good argument, of course not. Accusing anybody of being into grooming because of sexuality is silly and just makes you look glaikit.

As for Sharks obsession with cock-sucking it's not fair to call him closeted he's just a bit narrow minded and that's okay. I've known many people, both men and women, who were excellent at sucking cocks and we would gather around a table drinking fine whiskey andsmokie cigars whilst extolling how fine we all were. Perhaps he just needs to broaden his horizons.

Only if you don't count same sex pedophilia as homosexual, which most don't because they fear the gaymafia.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 23, 2022, 11:13:23 PM
I guess since lefties have decided to call anyone to the right of Mao nazi or fascist, it only fits that finally folks on the right have decided to just call all lefties pedophiles.  The reaction is priceless. Tossing around nazi/racist/-ist is so easy, but catching that pedo insult seems to be hard.

I mean, I see your point and it's not a bad one. My fear is that the harm of calling everyone a nazi was to diminish what it actually meant to be a nazi and to diminish the holocaust. And I absolutely think that has happened - the meaning of a real nazi is meaningfully reduced in society today because of that behavior you described.

I fear that will now happen with pedophiles. And that would be very bad. Diminishing the meaning of that accusation would not be a good result from this.

The only ones calling everything and everyone pedos are the leftists, and have been doing so for years, just take a look at what they say about any anime/manga.

Not the same to call pedos or groomers to pedos and groomers intent on showing porn to small children.

I have not seen anything about anime, but that sounds like a very niche complaint which isn't nationwide or widespread but is instead very geek culture focused.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2022, 11:29:25 PM
I guess since lefties have decided to call anyone to the right of Mao nazi or fascist, it only fits that finally folks on the right have decided to just call all lefties pedophiles.  The reaction is priceless. Tossing around nazi/racist/-ist is so easy, but catching that pedo insult seems to be hard.

I mean, I see your point and it's not a bad one. My fear is that the harm of calling everyone a nazi was to diminish what it actually meant to be a nazi and to diminish the holocaust. And I absolutely think that has happened - the meaning of a real nazi is meaningfully reduced in society today because of that behavior you described.

I fear that will now happen with pedophiles. And that would be very bad. Diminishing the meaning of that accusation would not be a good result from this.

The only ones calling everything and everyone pedos are the leftists, and have been doing so for years, just take a look at what they say about any anime/manga.

Not the same to call pedos or groomers to pedos and groomers intent on showing porn to small children.

I have not seen anything about anime, but that sounds like a very niche complaint which isn't nationwide or widespread but is instead very geek culture focused.

You haven't seen it therefore what?

Where do I claim it's "nationwide"?

I didn't, I just cited one example of leftards calling anything/anyone they don't like pedos. While you need to want to push porn into minors under the pretense of education for the other sides to call you a pedo/groomer.

No, it's not a typo, SIDES, because I have seen gays, lesbians, trans and even commies speak against the pedo groomers. So it's not just "Teh Right", it's sane/normal people vs the woke. Because it's the woke who are pushing the grooming and pedophilia.

Yes, I know, as sane and normal as you can be while still being a commie.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2022, 11:41:42 PM
Yes, it is the left pushing porn into 5 year olds to groom them.

Thank God this was cancelled:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10734503/Family-Sex-urges-FIVE-YEAR-OLD-children-explore-sexual-pleasures-cancelled.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10734503/Family-Sex-urges-FIVE-YEAR-OLD-children-explore-sexual-pleasures-cancelled.html)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 24, 2022, 12:44:19 AM
I guess since lefties have decided to call anyone to the right of Mao nazi or fascist, it only fits that finally folks on the right have decided to just call all lefties pedophiles.  The reaction is priceless. Tossing around nazi/racist/-ist is so easy, but catching that pedo insult seems to be hard.

I mean, I see your point and it's not a bad one. My fear is that the harm of calling everyone a nazi was to diminish what it actually meant to be a nazi and to diminish the holocaust. And I absolutely think that has happened - the meaning of a real nazi is meaningfully reduced in society today because of that behavior you described.

I fear that will now happen with pedophiles. And that would be very bad. Diminishing the meaning of that accusation would not be a good result from this.

The only ones calling everything and everyone pedos are the leftists, and have been doing so for years, just take a look at what they say about any anime/manga.

Not the same to call pedos or groomers to pedos and groomers intent on showing porn to small children.

I have not seen anything about anime, but that sounds like a very niche complaint which isn't nationwide or widespread but is instead very geek culture focused.

You haven't seen it therefore what?

Where do I claim it's "nationwide"?

I didn't, I just cited one example of leftards calling anything/anyone they don't like pedos. While you need to want to push porn into minors under the pretense of education for the other sides to call you a pedo/groomer.

No, it's not a typo, SIDES, because I have seen gays, lesbians, trans and even commies speak against the pedo groomers. So it's not just "Teh Right", it's sane/normal people vs the woke. Because it's the woke who are pushing the grooming and pedophilia.

Yes, I know, as sane and normal as you can be while still being a commie.

I think it's the latest fad talking point from Q, and a load of bullshit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 24, 2022, 12:58:25 AM
I guess since lefties have decided to call anyone to the right of Mao nazi or fascist, it only fits that finally folks on the right have decided to just call all lefties pedophiles.  The reaction is priceless. Tossing around nazi/racist/-ist is so easy, but catching that pedo insult seems to be hard.

I mean, I see your point and it's not a bad one. My fear is that the harm of calling everyone a nazi was to diminish what it actually meant to be a nazi and to diminish the holocaust. And I absolutely think that has happened - the meaning of a real nazi is meaningfully reduced in society today because of that behavior you described.

I fear that will now happen with pedophiles. And that would be very bad. Diminishing the meaning of that accusation would not be a good result from this.

The only ones calling everything and everyone pedos are the leftists, and have been doing so for years, just take a look at what they say about any anime/manga.

Not the same to call pedos or groomers to pedos and groomers intent on showing porn to small children.

I have not seen anything about anime, but that sounds like a very niche complaint which isn't nationwide or widespread but is instead very geek culture focused.

You haven't seen it therefore what?

Where do I claim it's "nationwide"?

I didn't, I just cited one example of leftards calling anything/anyone they don't like pedos. While you need to want to push porn into minors under the pretense of education for the other sides to call you a pedo/groomer.

No, it's not a typo, SIDES, because I have seen gays, lesbians, trans and even commies speak against the pedo groomers. So it's not just "Teh Right", it's sane/normal people vs the woke. Because it's the woke who are pushing the grooming and pedophilia.

Yes, I know, as sane and normal as you can be while still being a commie.

I think it's the latest fad talking point from Q, and a load of bullshit.

Meaning you choose not to see the evidence and to label people exposing the groomers as conspiracy theorists...

I would be worried if it weren't for the fact that the difference between a conspiracy theory and a proven fact is about 6 months.

Now tell me which are you, willingly stupid or pedo friendly?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 24, 2022, 04:54:50 PM
I guess since lefties have decided to call anyone to the right of Mao nazi or fascist, it only fits that finally folks on the right have decided to just call all lefties pedophiles.  The reaction is priceless. Tossing around nazi/racist/-ist is so easy, but catching that pedo insult seems to be hard.

I mean, I see your point and it's not a bad one. My fear is that the harm of calling everyone a nazi was to diminish what it actually meant to be a nazi and to diminish the holocaust. And I absolutely think that has happened - the meaning of a real nazi is meaningfully reduced in society today because of that behavior you described.

I fear that will now happen with pedophiles. And that would be very bad. Diminishing the meaning of that accusation would not be a good result from this.

The only ones calling everything and everyone pedos are the leftists, and have been doing so for years, just take a look at what they say about any anime/manga.

Not the same to call pedos or groomers to pedos and groomers intent on showing porn to small children.

I have not seen anything about anime, but that sounds like a very niche complaint which isn't nationwide or widespread but is instead very geek culture focused.

You haven't seen it therefore what?

Where do I claim it's "nationwide"?

I didn't, I just cited one example of leftards calling anything/anyone they don't like pedos. While you need to want to push porn into minors under the pretense of education for the other sides to call you a pedo/groomer.

No, it's not a typo, SIDES, because I have seen gays, lesbians, trans and even commies speak against the pedo groomers. So it's not just "Teh Right", it's sane/normal people vs the woke. Because it's the woke who are pushing the grooming and pedophilia.

Yes, I know, as sane and normal as you can be while still being a commie.

I think it's the latest fad talking point from Q, and a load of bullshit.

You being a resident expert on fad talking points.......
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 24, 2022, 08:14:37 PM
The only ones calling everything and everyone pedos are the leftists, and have been doing so for years, just take a look at what they say about any anime/manga.

Not the same to call pedos or groomers to pedos and groomers intent on showing porn to small children.

Except the Florida law doesn't outlaw showing porn to small children. What it outlaws is defining "gay" or even "straight" to kids, which can involve nothing more than what's in Snow White or Bambi.

Talking about gay people isn't the equivalent of porn. It is normal for even pre-school kids to learn about how some relationships are romantic - that relates to kissing, courtship, and marriage. Further, stories like "Heather Has Two Mommies" don't even involve romance - they are just talking about parents. But again, explaining anything about "Heather Has Two Mommies" is illegal under the Florida law.

The vast majority of both straight and LGBT people are opposed to pedophilia, and want actual pedophiles to be stopped and punished. However, I think nearly all LGBT people are opposed to the Florida law, because it isn't about pedophilia. It's about banning kids from knowing anything about gay people in school.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on April 24, 2022, 08:24:52 PM
I am suprised that the USA does not have a law banning children from being shown porn.

In New Zealand, it's illegal to view pornography if you're under 18, and also not taking adequate care to prevent minors from viewing porn.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ocule on April 24, 2022, 08:27:44 PM
I distinctly remember people being arrested and forced to register as sex offenders for distributing or showing porn to minors
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on April 24, 2022, 09:09:07 PM
I am suprised that the USA does not have a law banning children from being shown porn.
Why are you surprised about something that's not true and which nobody claimed?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on April 24, 2022, 09:28:29 PM
I am suprised that the USA does not have a law banning children from being shown porn.
Why are you surprised about something that's not true and which nobody claimed?

Except the Florida law doesn't outlaw showing porn to small children.

Reading comprehension is hard.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on April 24, 2022, 09:34:09 PM
I am suprised that the USA does not have a law banning children from being shown porn.
Why are you surprised about something that's not true and which nobody claimed?

Except the Florida law doesn't outlaw showing porn to small children.

Reading comprehension is hard.
For you, yes.

"[T]he Florida law". Not all laws everywhere in the US.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 24, 2022, 11:05:42 PM
I am suprised that the USA does not have a law banning children from being shown porn.
Why are you surprised about something that's not true and which nobody claimed?

Except the Florida law doesn't outlaw showing porn to small children.

Reading comprehension is hard.
For you, yes.

"[T]he Florida law". Not all laws everywhere in the US.

Greetings!

Why are you being so hard on Shasarak, Pat?

I figured that Shasarak was inferring why the entire US--as in a federal law covering every state against Porn exist.

That's a very valid question, Pat. As Shasarak said, his country already has a law against anyone under 18 viewing porn.

That is a very reasonable law--and one that it would be expected to be in place. At least to me. I'm surprised that it isn't illegal everywhere in the US for children watching porn. There definitely should be, if there isn't. Every fucking state needs to get with the program on that for sure.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on April 24, 2022, 11:17:54 PM
I am suprised that the USA does not have a law banning children from being shown porn.
Why are you surprised about something that's not true and which nobody claimed?

Except the Florida law doesn't outlaw showing porn to small children.

Reading comprehension is hard.
For you, yes.

"[T]he Florida law". Not all laws everywhere in the US.

Also, I’m pretty sure that showing porn to minors is already a violation of Florida law.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on April 24, 2022, 11:32:22 PM
I am suprised that the USA does not have a law banning children from being shown porn.
Why are you surprised about something that's not true and which nobody claimed?

Except the Florida law doesn't outlaw showing porn to small children.

Reading comprehension is hard.
For you, yes.

"[T]he Florida law". Not all laws everywhere in the US.

Greetings!

Why are you being so hard on Shasarak, Pat?

I figured that Shasarak was inferring why the entire US--as in a federal law covering every state against Porn exist.

That's a very valid question, Pat. As Shasarak said, his country already has a law against anyone under 18 viewing porn.

That is a very reasonable law--and one that it would be expected to be in place. At least to me. I'm surprised that it isn't illegal everywhere in the US for children watching porn. There definitely should be, if there isn't. Every fucking state needs to get with the program on that for sure.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Ask Shasarak the same question.

Why are you assuming it's legal anywhere?

I can easily find statues that prohibit it for random states:
https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2011/pen/part-1/281-289.6/288.2/

It's utterly bizarre that anyone would just assume these laws don't exist. It's equivalent to someone saying it's legal to shoot someone in the face for no reason everywhere in the US, and someone else going "yeah, that sounds plausible."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 25, 2022, 01:33:19 AM
I can easily find statues that prohibit it for random states:
https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2011/pen/part-1/281-289.6/288.2/

It's utterly bizarre that anyone would just assume these laws don't exist. It's equivalent to someone saying it's legal to shoot someone in the face for no reason everywhere in the US, and someone else going "yeah, that sounds plausible."

Right. The point is that it is *not* the case that showing porn to kids used to be legal in Florida, and thanks to this new law, it is now illegal. The law says nothing about showing porn to kids. I don't actually know the Florida statutes regarding porn, but having read the new law, I know that Florida law 1557 has not changed the legality of it.

The point is that talking about gay people isn't the equivalent of porn. It can be talking about romance, courtship, and marriage - which are all things that young kids know about, and are part of nearly every classic Disney movie. Or it could just be talking about parents and families, like "Heather Has Two Mommies".

Kids who are raised in gay households - or who have family who are gay will know what gay means. This isn't child abuse or grooming. They simply know that uncle John and uncle Jordan are married and love each other. Learning about gay people like that shouldn't be considered the equivalent of porn.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2022, 02:26:10 AM
The only ones calling everything and everyone pedos are the leftists, and have been doing so for years, just take a look at what they say about any anime/manga.

Not the same to call pedos or groomers to pedos and groomers intent on showing porn to small children.

Except the Florida law doesn't outlaw showing porn to small children. What it outlaws is defining "gay" or even "straight" to kids, which can involve nothing more than what's in Snow White or Bambi.

Talking about gay people isn't the equivalent of porn. It is normal for even pre-school kids to learn about how some relationships are romantic - that relates to kissing, courtship, and marriage. Further, stories like "Heather Has Two Mommies" don't even involve romance - they are just talking about parents. But again, explaining anything about "Heather Has Two Mommies" is illegal under the Florida law.

The vast majority of both straight and LGBT people are opposed to pedophilia, and want actual pedophiles to be stopped and punished. However, I think nearly all LGBT people are opposed to the Florida law, because it isn't about pedophilia. It's about banning kids from knowing anything about gay people in school.

Oh God, are you serously going to die on this hill?

Fine, far be for me to prevent you from doing so:

No, the law forbids speaking about gender or sexuality to children 5-8. So you're lying.

Nice try conflating two different but related conversations. The groomers ARE pushing pornography on children 5-8 disguised as sex ed, as proven by the books they push on the curriculum. And also outside the classroom as proven by the link about the cancelled UK show.

You think nearly all LGBT blah, blah, blah. Guess what? Your feelings aren't evidence. And once again, you're conflating two distinct but related conversations. But lets grant you that most of those speaking publicly ARE against it... Those aren't all, because you can't speak against the orthodxy or you'll be excomunicated, just ask Blaire White, Camille Paglia, etc.

Yes, explaining anything regarding sex, sexual orientation or "gender identity" to children 5-8 is illegal under that law. This includes heterosexual relations too. So it's not targeting your purse puppies.

Now please do keep ignoring the evidence that's the left pushing for the normalization of pedophilia (the seccond conversation you want to conflate for some reason) and lying about that and about the law. Maybe if you repeat your lies some more they'll become true.

Edited to add:

Maybe that's why you cut the quote where you did? So maybe people wouldn't notice your lies?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2022, 02:33:55 AM
I am suprised that the USA does not have a law banning children from being shown porn.
Why are you surprised about something that's not true and which nobody claimed?

Except the Florida law doesn't outlaw showing porn to small children.

Reading comprehension is hard.
For you, yes.

"[T]he Florida law". Not all laws everywhere in the US.

Also, I’m pretty sure that showing porn to minors is already a violation of Florida law.

True, and also jhkim is purposefully conflating TWO different but related conversations:

1.- It's not okay for teachers to talk IN SECRET to children 5-8 about sex, sexuality or "gender identity", much less to encourage them to question their sexuality or "gender identity".

2.- The left has been calling everyone pedos for a long time, and true to form they are guilty of that which they accuse you.

And maybe 3.- Mistwell & jhkim are disingenous twats.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2022, 02:35:52 AM
I can easily find statues that prohibit it for random states:
https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2011/pen/part-1/281-289.6/288.2/

It's utterly bizarre that anyone would just assume these laws don't exist. It's equivalent to someone saying it's legal to shoot someone in the face for no reason everywhere in the US, and someone else going "yeah, that sounds plausible."

Right. The point is that it is *not* the case that showing porn to kids used to be legal in Florida, and thanks to this new law, it is now illegal. The law says nothing about showing porn to kids. I don't actually know the Florida statutes regarding porn, but having read the new law, I know that Florida law 1557 has not changed the legality of it.

The point is that talking about gay people isn't the equivalent of porn. It can be talking about romance, courtship, and marriage - which are all things that young kids know about, and are part of nearly every classic Disney movie. Or it could just be talking about parents and families, like "Heather Has Two Mommies".

Kids who are raised in gay households - or who have family who are gay will know what gay means. This isn't child abuse or grooming. They simply know that uncle John and uncle Jordan are married and love each other. Learning about gay people like that shouldn't be considered the equivalent of porn.

Because you're purposefully conflating two conversations and choose to cut the quote in such way as to disguise your lies.

Something I already explained but since you love to skip stuff that shows you in a bad light I'm gonna keep hammering the point until you either apologize or run crying.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: fixable on April 25, 2022, 05:11:17 AM
I am suprised that the USA does not have a law banning children from being shown porn.
Why are you surprised about something that's not true and which nobody claimed?

Except the Florida law doesn't outlaw showing porn to small children.

Reading comprehension is hard.
For you, yes.

"[T]he Florida law". Not all laws everywhere in the US.

Also, I’m pretty sure that showing porn to minors is already a violation of Florida law.

True, and also jhkim is purposefully conflating TWO different but related conversations:

1.- It's not okay for teachers to talk IN SECRET to children 5-8 about sex, sexuality or "gender identity", much less to encourage them to question their sexuality or "gender identity".

2.- The left has been calling everyone pedos for a long time, and true to form they are guilty of that which they accuse you.

And maybe 3.- Mistwell & jhkim are disingenous twats.

lol wut?
no one on the left has accused anyone of being a pedophile. I thought the whole point of the fascist q movement was to accuse everyone they don't like of being a pedophile? That is literally the weapon of choice of the far-right.

Meanwhile actual pedophiles and sex assaulters...

https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/da96bi/army_officer_at_maralago_accessed_russian/f1od73c/

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 25, 2022, 06:43:25 AM
I am suprised that the USA does not have a law banning children from being shown porn.
Why are you surprised about something that's not true and which nobody claimed?

Except the Florida law doesn't outlaw showing porn to small children.

Reading comprehension is hard.
For you, yes.

"[T]he Florida law". Not all laws everywhere in the US.

Also, I’m pretty sure that showing porn to minors is already a violation of Florida law.

True, and also jhkim is purposefully conflating TWO different but related conversations:

1.- It's not okay for teachers to talk IN SECRET to children 5-8 about sex, sexuality or "gender identity", much less to encourage them to question their sexuality or "gender identity".

2.- The left has been calling everyone pedos for a long time, and true to form they are guilty of that which they accuse you.

And maybe 3.- Mistwell & jhkim are disingenous twats.

lol wut?
no one on the left has accused anyone of being a pedophile. I thought the whole point of the fascist q movement was to accuse everyone they don't like of being a pedophile? That is literally the weapon of choice of the far-right.

Meanwhile actual pedophiles and sex assaulters...

https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/da96bi/army_officer_at_maralago_accessed_russian/f1od73c/

Just 40 examples? That's not even a Teacher's Union meeting!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2022, 08:15:02 AM
I am suprised that the USA does not have a law banning children from being shown porn.
Why are you surprised about something that's not true and which nobody claimed?

Except the Florida law doesn't outlaw showing porn to small children.

Reading comprehension is hard.
For you, yes.

"[T]he Florida law". Not all laws everywhere in the US.

Also, I’m pretty sure that showing porn to minors is already a violation of Florida law.

True, and also jhkim is purposefully conflating TWO different but related conversations:

1.- It's not okay for teachers to talk IN SECRET to children 5-8 about sex, sexuality or "gender identity", much less to encourage them to question their sexuality or "gender identity".

2.- The left has been calling everyone pedos for a long time, and true to form they are guilty of that which they accuse you.

And maybe 3.- Mistwell & jhkim are disingenous twats.

lol wut?
no one on the left has accused anyone of being a pedophile. I thought the whole point of the fascist q movement was to accuse everyone they don't like of being a pedophile? That is literally the weapon of choice of the far-right.

Meanwhile actual pedophiles and sex assaulters...

https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/da96bi/army_officer_at_maralago_accessed_russian/f1od73c/

This is how this would go:

1.- I need to find but one example (and I could find many more than one) to invalidate your claim.
2.- You proceed to move the goalpost.
3.- I acuse you of moving the goalpost.
4.- You deny doing so.

So lets save everybody some time and ignore you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 25, 2022, 10:22:05 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dragox27-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-bad-faith-arguing.896493/

Miss Atomic Bomb is too stupid or lazy to put what it actually objects to in the Infractions post, which is unsurprising.

Dragox27 posted:
"The only part of their content that isn't clear is two lines in the prologue in which some people have taken "early men" to mean "Native Americans" and not "early men". They also have had a Cherokee writer on the team from the start. As I've also cited in the thread it's exceptionally clear that there is no canonical erasure in that setting. You are 100% correct in that assumption, it could not be more clear in the actual content. I don't think it needed a direct explanation based solely on the source material, but the people who are against the source material based on a misinterpretation of the very first episode obviously aren't the ones likely to see all that much of the source material. So it's a very useful way to get the message across in a direct and inarguable method then just "if you listen to the show you'd know you're wrong", because they don't want to listen to the show for understandable reasons. I only asked the writers to clarify for the sake of it being from the source with no room for interpretation. This entire conversation has stemmed from two whole lines out of those 33+ episodes, which I think you'll agree isn't very much of the content, and has now definitively had its explicit meaning stated.

Again, you can still not like it because of that initial reaction, perfectly reasonable, but it's very hard to argue that there is any sort of erasure going on here at this stage. I fully understand how someone could think that from the prologue, but given the rest of the content and it's very strong themes of anti-exploitation, anti-colonialism, anti-slavery it would be a very very weird tonal clash for that to be an accurate interpretation. You don't have to get more than a couple of episodes in to see those themes in full force either. The content is exceptionally clear in all cases bar these two lines. Those two lines have now also been made exceptionally clear. Anyone that believes there is erasure in this setting is simply mistaken. That doesn't mean they're wrong to feel the way they do about it, nor were they in the wrong for misinterpreting those lines. They are mistaken though."

Miss Stupid responded:
"Dragox27, you have a habit of putting down walls of text which repeat, over and over, about a sentence's worth of content, and do so in a hostile way. You've been asked to change this before.

In this case, you're also doing it to attempt to establish your opinion as factual and other people's opinions as emotional. This flies in the face of repeated explanations, with citations, from the people you're arguing with. This is not a good faith argument tactic.

Because you keep doing this, we're suspending you for one week. When you return, do not post in this thread and do not start another on any related topic."
---

LOL. Basically, Dragox27 makes a fairly coherent argument, so he's just 'repeating a sentence's worth of content'. It doesn't even strike me as hostile. But wrongthink is doubleplusungood at TBP, so they get banhammered for a week.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on April 25, 2022, 11:09:38 AM
lol wut?
no one on the left has accused anyone of being a pedophile.....

It became a thing after Milo Yua...Youn...Yanni... you know that guy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 25, 2022, 12:22:09 PM
Except the Florida law doesn't outlaw showing porn to small children. What it outlaws is defining "gay" or even "straight" to kids, which can involve nothing more than what's in Snow White or Bambi.

Talking about gay people isn't the equivalent of porn. It is normal for even pre-school kids to learn about how some relationships are romantic - that relates to kissing, courtship, and marriage. Further, stories like "Heather Has Two Mommies" don't even involve romance - they are just talking about parents. But again, explaining anything about "Heather Has Two Mommies" is illegal under the Florida law.

Yes, explaining anything regarding sex, sexual orientation or "gender identity" to children 5-8 is illegal under that law. This includes heterosexual relations too. So it's not targeting your purse puppies.

The law is specific only to sexual orientation and gender identity. It does not forbid anything related to sex in general. Here's the relevant quote again:

Quote
Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

So topics like sexual organs, reproduction, masturbation, and similar are allowed under the law.


The groomers ARE pushing pornography on children 5-8 disguised as sex ed, as proven by the books they push on the curriculum. And also outside the classroom as proven by the link about the cancelled UK show.

Do you have a link or any details about these books in the Florida K-3 curriculum that you think are pornography? Sorry, if you had posted it before, I missed it. I did see your link about the local family theater show in the UK that was cancelled, which looked terrible.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2022, 12:35:59 PM
Except the Florida law doesn't outlaw showing porn to small children. What it outlaws is defining "gay" or even "straight" to kids, which can involve nothing more than what's in Snow White or Bambi.

Talking about gay people isn't the equivalent of porn. It is normal for even pre-school kids to learn about how some relationships are romantic - that relates to kissing, courtship, and marriage. Further, stories like "Heather Has Two Mommies" don't even involve romance - they are just talking about parents. But again, explaining anything about "Heather Has Two Mommies" is illegal under the Florida law.

Yes, explaining anything regarding sex, sexual orientation or "gender identity" to children 5-8 is illegal under that law. This includes heterosexual relations too. So it's not targeting your purse puppies.

The law is specific only to sexual orientation and gender identity. It does not forbid anything related to sex in general. Here's the relevant quote again:

Quote
Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

So topics like sexual organs, reproduction, masturbation, and similar are allowed under the law.


The groomers ARE pushing pornography on children 5-8 disguised as sex ed, as proven by the books they push on the curriculum. And also outside the classroom as proven by the link about the cancelled UK show.

Do you have a link or any details about these books in the Florida K-3 curriculum that you think are pornography? Sorry, if you had posted it before, I missed it. I did see your link about the local family theater show in the UK that was cancelled, which looked terrible.

Do you realize the quote you provided proves you wrong?

Quote
Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

Heterosexuality IS a sexual orientation. Not that the activists recognize this anymore since they want to force lesbians to suck the "feminine" penis.

"Gender Identity" is a lie invented by Mooney, who was a monster not only because he was a kiddie diddler but because he experimented on children (okay, one child that we know off), leading to the death of his subject and his twin. So If it's NEVER thtaught EVER ANYWHERE to ANYONE I'm perfectly fine with it.

But even if that wasn't a lie, being normal (Cis is a fucking slur) IS a Gender Identity.

We have explained this to you several times and you keep on lying.

If your school curriculum for children 5-8 includes ANY form of sex ed you're a groomer, adolescents need sex ed, not small children.

As for the books I would need to search for it but even one parent got booted from the meeting for reading to the board from one such book. The board deemed it innapropriate to read such things to fucking adults. There was another with explicit nudes and two males sucking each other's dicks.

I bet you'd knew this if it wasn't for the small fact that you only consume your "news" from far left outlets.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 25, 2022, 01:27:28 PM
I guess since lefties have decided to call anyone to the right of Mao nazi or fascist, it only fits that finally folks on the right have decided to just call all lefties pedophiles.  The reaction is priceless. Tossing around nazi/racist/-ist is so easy, but catching that pedo insult seems to be hard.

I mean, I see your point and it's not a bad one. My fear is that the harm of calling everyone a nazi was to diminish what it actually meant to be a nazi and to diminish the holocaust. And I absolutely think that has happened - the meaning of a real nazi is meaningfully reduced in society today because of that behavior you described.

I fear that will now happen with pedophiles. And that would be very bad. Diminishing the meaning of that accusation would not be a good result from this.

The only ones calling everything and everyone pedos are the leftists, and have been doing so for years, just take a look at what they say about any anime/manga.

Not the same to call pedos or groomers to pedos and groomers intent on showing porn to small children.

I have not seen anything about anime, but that sounds like a very niche complaint which isn't nationwide or widespread but is instead very geek culture focused.

You haven't seen it therefore what?

Where do I claim it's "nationwide"?

I didn't, I just cited one example of leftards calling anything/anyone they don't like pedos. While you need to want to push porn into minors under the pretense of education for the other sides to call you a pedo/groomer.

No, it's not a typo, SIDES, because I have seen gays, lesbians, trans and even commies speak against the pedo groomers. So it's not just "Teh Right", it's sane/normal people vs the woke. Because it's the woke who are pushing the grooming and pedophilia.

Yes, I know, as sane and normal as you can be while still being a commie.

I think it's the latest fad talking point from Q, and a load of bullshit.

You being a resident expert on fad talking points.......

You've accused me of it in the past, and now I can't take expertise credit for it when it's applicable?

Yeah, I can recognize when a fad taking point is being used. This whole "You're all pedos and groomers!" thing is a Q talking point. Nothing has changed in the schools regarding this topic from last year, but all of a sudden the talking point is accusing everyone of being a groomer. Pretty easy to spot that talking point for what it is. Someone even admitted it was just retaliation for behavior of the left towards the right, earlier in this thread.

Or are you really arguing all of a sudden this year our entire K-12 system is full of groomers and pedophiles, despite most teachers and administrators being career people who have been there for a long time? Or that there was some magical reveal of what had been previously hidden despite zero evidence of that?

I mean, how often did you even hear the term "groomer" as meaning something other than "someone who grooms pets" prior to a year ago? Yes, this is what a fad looks like.

Naw it's just the latest fad. There will be a new one in a few months or at most after the next election. The goal, as always, is to tweak the SJWs and not champion a genuine issue. Watch this space - the usual suspects here will repeat it like good little Q martinets.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 25, 2022, 01:34:38 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dragox27-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-bad-faith-arguing.896493/

Miss Atomic Bomb is too stupid or lazy to put what it actually objects to in the Infractions post, which is unsurprising.

Dragox27 posted:
"The only part of their content that isn't clear is two lines in the prologue in which some people have taken "early men" to mean "Native Americans" and not "early men". They also have had a Cherokee writer on the team from the start. As I've also cited in the thread it's exceptionally clear that there is no canonical erasure in that setting. You are 100% correct in that assumption, it could not be more clear in the actual content. I don't think it needed a direct explanation based solely on the source material, but the people who are against the source material based on a misinterpretation of the very first episode obviously aren't the ones likely to see all that much of the source material. So it's a very useful way to get the message across in a direct and inarguable method then just "if you listen to the show you'd know you're wrong", because they don't want to listen to the show for understandable reasons. I only asked the writers to clarify for the sake of it being from the source with no room for interpretation. This entire conversation has stemmed from two whole lines out of those 33+ episodes, which I think you'll agree isn't very much of the content, and has now definitively had its explicit meaning stated.

Again, you can still not like it because of that initial reaction, perfectly reasonable, but it's very hard to argue that there is any sort of erasure going on here at this stage. I fully understand how someone could think that from the prologue, but given the rest of the content and it's very strong themes of anti-exploitation, anti-colonialism, anti-slavery it would be a very very weird tonal clash for that to be an accurate interpretation. You don't have to get more than a couple of episodes in to see those themes in full force either. The content is exceptionally clear in all cases bar these two lines. Those two lines have now also been made exceptionally clear. Anyone that believes there is erasure in this setting is simply mistaken. That doesn't mean they're wrong to feel the way they do about it, nor were they in the wrong for misinterpreting those lines. They are mistaken though."

Miss Stupid responded:
"Dragox27, you have a habit of putting down walls of text which repeat, over and over, about a sentence's worth of content, and do so in a hostile way. You've been asked to change this before.

In this case, you're also doing it to attempt to establish your opinion as factual and other people's opinions as emotional. This flies in the face of repeated explanations, with citations, from the people you're arguing with. This is not a good faith argument tactic.

Because you keep doing this, we're suspending you for one week. When you return, do not post in this thread and do not start another on any related topic."
---

LOL. Basically, Dragox27 makes a fairly coherent argument, so he's just 'repeating a sentence's worth of content'. It doesn't even strike me as hostile. But wrongthink is doubleplusungood at TBP, so they get banhammered for a week.

I again want to thank you for continuing to post stuff about the actual topic :) I know you don't give a crap that I appreciate it, but I still think it's polite to say I appreciate it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 25, 2022, 02:30:16 PM
Except the Florida law doesn't outlaw showing porn to small children. What it outlaws is defining "gay" or even "straight" to kids, which can involve nothing more than what's in Snow White or Bambi.

Talking about gay people isn't the equivalent of porn. It is normal for even pre-school kids to learn about how some relationships are romantic - that relates to kissing, courtship, and marriage. Further, stories like "Heather Has Two Mommies" don't even involve romance - they are just talking about parents. But again, explaining anything about "Heather Has Two Mommies" is illegal under the Florida law.

Yes, explaining anything regarding sex, sexual orientation or "gender identity" to children 5-8 is illegal under that law. This includes heterosexual relations too. So it's not targeting your purse puppies.

The law is specific only to sexual orientation and gender identity. It does not forbid anything related to sex in general. Here's the relevant quote again:

Quote
Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

So topics like sexual organs, reproduction, masturbation, and similar are allowed under the law.


The groomers ARE pushing pornography on children 5-8 disguised as sex ed, as proven by the books they push on the curriculum. And also outside the classroom as proven by the link about the cancelled UK show.

Do you have a link or any details about these books in the Florida K-3 curriculum that you think are pornography? Sorry, if you had posted it before, I missed it. I did see your link about the local family theater show in the UK that was cancelled, which looked terrible.

Do you realize the quote you provided proves you wrong?

Quote
Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

Heterosexuality IS a sexual orientation. Not that the activists recognize this anymore since they want to force lesbians to suck the "feminine" penis.

"Gender Identity" is a lie invented by Mooney, who was a monster not only because he was a kiddie diddler but because he experimented on children (okay, one child that we know off), leading to the death of his subject and his twin. So If it's NEVER thtaught EVER ANYWHERE to ANYONE I'm perfectly fine with it.

But even if that wasn't a lie, being normal (Cis is a fucking slur) IS a Gender Identity.

We have explained this to you several times and you keep on lying.

If your school curriculum for children 5-8 includes ANY form of sex ed you're a groomer, adolescents need sex ed, not small children.

As for the books I would need to search for it but even one parent got booted from the meeting for reading to the board from one such book. The board deemed it innapropriate to read such things to fucking adults. There was another with explicit nudes and two males sucking each other's dicks.

I bet you'd knew this if it wasn't for the small fact that you only consume your "news" from far left outlets.

Greetings!

Exactly, Hermno! I mentioned earlier about some of these videos and interviews with parents attending schoolboard meetings. The parents read sections of these pornographic gay books, (mostly), other books, all very sexual, describing oral sex, anal sex, and more. The smug schoolboard members shushed the parents for reading something that was deemed offensive and inappropriate for the adults present.

All of the books read from were books as part of the classroom curriculum for children in grades K-6th, and maybe K-8th grade as well. Also books discovered in the school libraries. Grade schools, for little kids. All of these disgusting pornographic books were pushed, *demanded*, and promoted by cock-sucking Communist teachers, librarians, and school administrators.

Over several months to the last year, there have been all kinds of stories and video articles about this terrible stuff.

But, well, Jhkim doesn't know anything about it. Where did we ever hear about this stuff, Hermano? *Laughing*

And well, as for "Q Conspiracy Theories" that's just more bullshit too. Fucking Liberal cock-sucking Communist activist fucking teachers and so on have been pushing this fucking garbage onto school children for a long time now. I first heard about this pro-gay sex bullshit and more over 20 years ago. The goddamned Liberals have been actively working to corrupt our children with their filth and depravity for a long time. All of this has been known by Conservative Christians and others paying attention for a long time. Dr. James Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family, used to have programs discussing these developments and trends in schools *years ago*. Pastor Adrian Rogers also discussed these developments years ago, when they were first beginning. The Family Life Today program, likewise began cautioning parents to beware and get more involved with their local schools of their kids, because Liberals and gay activists were working to bring more sexualization and gay indoctrination into grade schools for little kids. Other pastors, such as Chuck Smith, Greg Laurie, Dr. John MacArthur, and more, have also been talking about these developments and trends in our schools, going back years.

It's just recently, the fucking "normies" have finally gotten slapped in the fucking face once too often, and have woken up to what the fucking Liberals are pumping into their kids at school. More and more parents everywhere are furious and alarmed at the absolute indoctrination being pumped into the children by the Liberals. Absolutely mind-blowing. Fortunately, huge numbers of parents have gone berserk, and schoolboard scum everywhere have been resigning in a blink, and leaving town. They have recanted in some areas, in shame, and whole schoolboards have been blasted and voted out! As good as this all is, it is just a small beginning.

There is much work to do, to save children and our society from the fucking Marxists.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 25, 2022, 03:15:58 PM
The law is specific only to sexual orientation and gender identity. It does not forbid anything related to sex in general. Here's the relevant quote again:

Quote
Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

So topics like sexual organs, reproduction, masturbation, and similar are allowed under the law.

Do you realize the quote you provided proves you wrong?

Heterosexuality IS a sexual orientation. Not that the activists recognize this anymore since they want to force lesbians to suck the "feminine" penis.

I agree that heterosexuality is a sexual orientation. So there is a reading of the law that it would forbid students from watching and discussing Snow White or Bambi because of the heterosexuality they portray. However, sexual orientation is about *other people* that someone is attracted to. Masturbation is a solo activity, and doesn't involve sexual orientation. So by the law, it's OK to talk to kids about masturbation.

Likewise, both sexual orientation and gender identity are purely mental/behavioral topics. So under the law it's OK to talk about physical genitalia and physical reproduction with students, and/or show pictures - as long as the mental states aren't discussed.

The law *could* have banned a variety of all of these topics, but instead it singled out sexual orientation and gender identity. This clearly is pointed at LGBT people, rather than at sex ed in general.


"Gender Identity" is a lie invented by Mooney, who was a monster not only because he was a kiddie diddler but because he experimented on children (okay, one child that we know off), leading to the death of his subject and his twin. So If it's NEVER thtaught EVER ANYWHERE to ANYONE I'm perfectly fine with it.

New Zealand psychologist John Money (not Mooney) popularized use of that term, but transgender behaviors have existed for thousands of years. They are a tradition in many societies, like the hijra in India, the winkte among the Lakota, or wakashu in Edo Japan. Within the West, there have always been transgender people long before the term "gender identity" was coined by Robert J. Stoller in 1964, before it was popularized by Money.

To be clear - I am hugely opposed to the theories of John Money. I recently had a friend preach at my church against especially the practice of infant genital surgery that he helped popularize, that continues to be practiced on thousands of intersex babies every year - along with male circumcision that remains extremely common in the U.S. There should be informed consent to do any non-necessary surgery on genitalia.


Do you have a link or any details about these books in the Florida K-3 curriculum that you think are pornography? Sorry, if you had posted it before, I missed it. I did see your link about the local family theater show in the UK that was cancelled, which looked terrible.

As for the books I would need to search for it but even one parent got booted from the meeting for reading to the board from one such book. The board deemed it innapropriate to read such things to fucking adults. There was another with explicit nudes and two males sucking each other's dicks.

I can't find that from search. Are you thinking of high school instead of K-3, maybe? From search, I read that there were copies of "Gender Queer: A Memoir" in some high school libraries, but they were not a part of any curriculum even in high school.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/florida-school-board-removes-parent-from-meeting-for-reading-out-of-sexually-explicit-book-from-hs-library

I'm not endorsing the book - but there's an enormous difference between being possibly available to high school students and being in a K-3 curriculum. High school students are often sexually active and over the local age of consent.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2022, 03:39:16 PM
The law is specific only to sexual orientation and gender identity. It does not forbid anything related to sex in general. Here's the relevant quote again:

Quote
Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

So topics like sexual organs, reproduction, masturbation, and similar are allowed under the law.

Do you realize the quote you provided proves you wrong?

Heterosexuality IS a sexual orientation. Not that the activists recognize this anymore since they want to force lesbians to suck the "feminine" penis.

I agree that heterosexuality is a sexual orientation. So there is a reading of the law that it would forbid students from watching and discussing Snow White or Bambi because of the heterosexuality they portray. However, sexual orientation is about *other people* that someone is attracted to. Masturbation is a solo activity, and doesn't involve sexual orientation. So by the law, it's OK to talk to kids about masturbation.

Likewise, both sexual orientation and gender identity are purely mental/behavioral topics. So under the law it's OK to talk about physical genitalia and physical reproduction with students, and/or show pictures - as long as the mental states aren't discussed.

The law *could* have banned a variety of all of these topics, but instead it singled out sexual orientation and gender identity. This clearly is pointed at LGBT people, rather than at sex ed in general.


"Gender Identity" is a lie invented by Mooney, who was a monster not only because he was a kiddie diddler but because he experimented on children (okay, one child that we know off), leading to the death of his subject and his twin. So If it's NEVER thtaught EVER ANYWHERE to ANYONE I'm perfectly fine with it.

New Zealand psychologist John Money (not Mooney) popularized use of that term, but transgender behaviors have existed for thousands of years. They are a tradition in many societies, like the hijra in India, the winkte among the Lakota, or wakashu in Edo Japan. Within the West, there have always been transgender people long before the term "gender identity" was coined by Robert J. Stoller in 1964, before it was popularized by Money.

To be clear - I am hugely opposed to the theories of John Money. I recently had a friend preach at my church against especially the practice of infant genital surgery that he helped popularize, that continues to be practiced on thousands of intersex babies every year - along with male circumcision that remains extremely common in the U.S. There should be informed consent to do any non-necessary surgery on genitalia.


Do you have a link or any details about these books in the Florida K-3 curriculum that you think are pornography? Sorry, if you had posted it before, I missed it. I did see your link about the local family theater show in the UK that was cancelled, which looked terrible.

As for the books I would need to search for it but even one parent got booted from the meeting for reading to the board from one such book. The board deemed it innapropriate to read such things to fucking adults. There was another with explicit nudes and two males sucking each other's dicks.

I can't find that from search. Are you thinking of high school instead of K-3, maybe? From search, I read that there were copies of "Gender Queer: A Memoir" in some high school libraries, but they were not a part of any curriculum even in high school.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/florida-school-board-removes-parent-from-meeting-for-reading-out-of-sexually-explicit-book-from-hs-library

I'm not endorsing the book - but there's an enormous difference between being possibly available to high school students and being in a K-3 curriculum. High school students are often sexually active and over the local age of consent.

Bolding mine.

So we can teach people not to be gay? What happened with "Born This Way!" In your rush to deffend the groomers you became a biggot.

One video with several instances and evidence:



Also, you're for grooming children into becoming trans but against a NECCESARY surgical procedure for intersex babies... WOW.

Fucking WOW.

Also conflating that procedure with circumcision (which in 99.9999999% of the cases it's done there's no medical need for it.) Fucking WOW.

Not sure if you're evil or just brainwashed.

Should doctors also refrain from correcting other birth deffects? Cleft palate?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2022, 03:48:40 PM
Except the Florida law doesn't outlaw showing porn to small children. What it outlaws is defining "gay" or even "straight" to kids, which can involve nothing more than what's in Snow White or Bambi.

Talking about gay people isn't the equivalent of porn. It is normal for even pre-school kids to learn about how some relationships are romantic - that relates to kissing, courtship, and marriage. Further, stories like "Heather Has Two Mommies" don't even involve romance - they are just talking about parents. But again, explaining anything about "Heather Has Two Mommies" is illegal under the Florida law.

Yes, explaining anything regarding sex, sexual orientation or "gender identity" to children 5-8 is illegal under that law. This includes heterosexual relations too. So it's not targeting your purse puppies.

The law is specific only to sexual orientation and gender identity. It does not forbid anything related to sex in general. Here's the relevant quote again:

Quote
Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

So topics like sexual organs, reproduction, masturbation, and similar are allowed under the law.


The groomers ARE pushing pornography on children 5-8 disguised as sex ed, as proven by the books they push on the curriculum. And also outside the classroom as proven by the link about the cancelled UK show.

Do you have a link or any details about these books in the Florida K-3 curriculum that you think are pornography? Sorry, if you had posted it before, I missed it. I did see your link about the local family theater show in the UK that was cancelled, which looked terrible.

Do you realize the quote you provided proves you wrong?

Quote
Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

Heterosexuality IS a sexual orientation. Not that the activists recognize this anymore since they want to force lesbians to suck the "feminine" penis.

"Gender Identity" is a lie invented by Mooney, who was a monster not only because he was a kiddie diddler but because he experimented on children (okay, one child that we know off), leading to the death of his subject and his twin. So If it's NEVER thtaught EVER ANYWHERE to ANYONE I'm perfectly fine with it.

But even if that wasn't a lie, being normal (Cis is a fucking slur) IS a Gender Identity.

We have explained this to you several times and you keep on lying.

If your school curriculum for children 5-8 includes ANY form of sex ed you're a groomer, adolescents need sex ed, not small children.

As for the books I would need to search for it but even one parent got booted from the meeting for reading to the board from one such book. The board deemed it innapropriate to read such things to fucking adults. There was another with explicit nudes and two males sucking each other's dicks.

I bet you'd knew this if it wasn't for the small fact that you only consume your "news" from far left outlets.

Greetings!

Exactly, Hermno! I mentioned earlier about some of these videos and interviews with parents attending schoolboard meetings. The parents read sections of these pornographic gay books, (mostly), other books, all very sexual, describing oral sex, anal sex, and more. The smug schoolboard members shushed the parents for reading something that was deemed offensive and inappropriate for the adults present.

All of the books read from were books as part of the classroom curriculum for children in grades K-6th, and maybe K-8th grade as well. Also books discovered in the school libraries. Grade schools, for little kids. All of these disgusting pornographic books were pushed, *demanded*, and promoted by cock-sucking Communist teachers, librarians, and school administrators.

Over several months to the last year, there have been all kinds of stories and video articles about this terrible stuff.

But, well, Jhkim doesn't know anything about it. Where did we ever hear about this stuff, Hermano? *Laughing*

And well, as for "Q Conspiracy Theories" that's just more bullshit too. Fucking Liberal cock-sucking Communist activist fucking teachers and so on have been pushing this fucking garbage onto school children for a long time now. I first heard about this pro-gay sex bullshit and more over 20 years ago. The goddamned Liberals have been actively working to corrupt our children with their filth and depravity for a long time. All of this has been known by Conservative Christians and others paying attention for a long time. Dr. James Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family, used to have programs discussing these developments and trends in schools *years ago*. Pastor Adrian Rogers also discussed these developments years ago, when they were first beginning. The Family Life Today program, likewise began cautioning parents to beware and get more involved with their local schools of their kids, because Liberals and gay activists were working to bring more sexualization and gay indoctrination into grade schools for little kids. Other pastors, such as Chuck Smith, Greg Laurie, Dr. John MacArthur, and more, have also been talking about these developments and trends in our schools, going back years.

It's just recently, the fucking "normies" have finally gotten slapped in the fucking face once too often, and have woken up to what the fucking Liberals are pumping into their kids at school. More and more parents everywhere are furious and alarmed at the absolute indoctrination being pumped into the children by the Liberals. Absolutely mind-blowing. Fortunately, huge numbers of parents have gone berserk, and schoolboard scum everywhere have been resigning in a blink, and leaving town. They have recanted in some areas, in shame, and whole schoolboards have been blasted and voted out! As good as this all is, it is just a small beginning.

There is much work to do, to save children and our society from the fucking Marxists.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Exactly!

It's also not a secret the long held belief by the leftards that to prevent people from becoming fascists one need to push for "sexual liberation".

A good video about this topic:

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 25, 2022, 04:58:39 PM
I guess since lefties have decided to call anyone to the right of Mao nazi or fascist, it only fits that finally folks on the right have decided to just call all lefties pedophiles.  The reaction is priceless. Tossing around nazi/racist/-ist is so easy, but catching that pedo insult seems to be hard.

I mean, I see your point and it's not a bad one. My fear is that the harm of calling everyone a nazi was to diminish what it actually meant to be a nazi and to diminish the holocaust. And I absolutely think that has happened - the meaning of a real nazi is meaningfully reduced in society today because of that behavior you described.

I fear that will now happen with pedophiles. And that would be very bad. Diminishing the meaning of that accusation would not be a good result from this.

The only ones calling everything and everyone pedos are the leftists, and have been doing so for years, just take a look at what they say about any anime/manga.

Not the same to call pedos or groomers to pedos and groomers intent on showing porn to small children.

I have not seen anything about anime, but that sounds like a very niche complaint which isn't nationwide or widespread but is instead very geek culture focused.

You haven't seen it therefore what?

Where do I claim it's "nationwide"?

I didn't, I just cited one example of leftards calling anything/anyone they don't like pedos. While you need to want to push porn into minors under the pretense of education for the other sides to call you a pedo/groomer.

No, it's not a typo, SIDES, because I have seen gays, lesbians, trans and even commies speak against the pedo groomers. So it's not just "Teh Right", it's sane/normal people vs the woke. Because it's the woke who are pushing the grooming and pedophilia.

Yes, I know, as sane and normal as you can be while still being a commie.

I think it's the latest fad talking point from Q, and a load of bullshit.

You being a resident expert on fad talking points.......

You've accused me of it in the past, and now I can't take expertise credit for it when it's applicable?

Yeah, I can recognize when a fad taking point is being used. This whole "You're all pedos and groomers!" thing is a Q talking point. Nothing has changed in the schools regarding this topic from last year, but all of a sudden the talking point is accusing everyone of being a groomer. Pretty easy to spot that talking point for what it is. Someone even admitted it was just retaliation for behavior of the left towards the right, earlier in this thread.

Or are you really arguing all of a sudden this year our entire K-12 system is full of groomers and pedophiles, despite most teachers and administrators being career people who have been there for a long time? Or that there was some magical reveal of what had been previously hidden despite zero evidence of that?

I mean, how often did you even hear the term "groomer" as meaning something other than "someone who grooms pets" prior to a year ago? Yes, this is what a fad looks like.

Naw it's just the latest fad. There will be a new one in a few months or at most after the next election. The goal, as always, is to tweak the SJWs and not champion a genuine issue. Watch this space - the usual suspects here will repeat it like good little Q martinets.

Wow, you'd think that I struck a nerve....

Give it up, liar. Your intellectual dishonesty is known.

Besides, as soon as the wind blows in another direction, you will champion a different SJW approved narrative.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on April 25, 2022, 05:53:51 PM
Why are you being so hard on Shasarak, Pat?

Dont worry about it SHARK, I got this.  ;)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2022, 07:24:06 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dragox27-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-bad-faith-arguing.896493/

Miss Atomic Bomb is too stupid or lazy to put what it actually objects to in the Infractions post, which is unsurprising.

Dragox27 posted:
"The only part of their content that isn't clear is two lines in the prologue in which some people have taken "early men" to mean "Native Americans" and not "early men". They also have had a Cherokee writer on the team from the start. As I've also cited in the thread it's exceptionally clear that there is no canonical erasure in that setting. You are 100% correct in that assumption, it could not be more clear in the actual content. I don't think it needed a direct explanation based solely on the source material, but the people who are against the source material based on a misinterpretation of the very first episode obviously aren't the ones likely to see all that much of the source material. So it's a very useful way to get the message across in a direct and inarguable method then just "if you listen to the show you'd know you're wrong", because they don't want to listen to the show for understandable reasons. I only asked the writers to clarify for the sake of it being from the source with no room for interpretation. This entire conversation has stemmed from two whole lines out of those 33+ episodes, which I think you'll agree isn't very much of the content, and has now definitively had its explicit meaning stated.

Again, you can still not like it because of that initial reaction, perfectly reasonable, but it's very hard to argue that there is any sort of erasure going on here at this stage. I fully understand how someone could think that from the prologue, but given the rest of the content and it's very strong themes of anti-exploitation, anti-colonialism, anti-slavery it would be a very very weird tonal clash for that to be an accurate interpretation. You don't have to get more than a couple of episodes in to see those themes in full force either. The content is exceptionally clear in all cases bar these two lines. Those two lines have now also been made exceptionally clear. Anyone that believes there is erasure in this setting is simply mistaken. That doesn't mean they're wrong to feel the way they do about it, nor were they in the wrong for misinterpreting those lines. They are mistaken though."

Miss Stupid responded:
"Dragox27, you have a habit of putting down walls of text which repeat, over and over, about a sentence's worth of content, and do so in a hostile way. You've been asked to change this before.

In this case, you're also doing it to attempt to establish your opinion as factual and other people's opinions as emotional. This flies in the face of repeated explanations, with citations, from the people you're arguing with. This is not a good faith argument tactic.

Because you keep doing this, we're suspending you for one week. When you return, do not post in this thread and do not start another on any related topic."
---

LOL. Basically, Dragox27 makes a fairly coherent argument, so he's just 'repeating a sentence's worth of content'. It doesn't even strike me as hostile. But wrongthink is doubleplusungood at TBP, so they get banhammered for a week.

I again want to thank you for continuing to post stuff about the actual topic :) I know you don't give a crap that I appreciate it, but I still think it's polite to say I appreciate it.

Of course you appreciate it groomer.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 25, 2022, 09:14:18 PM
I agree that heterosexuality is a sexual orientation. So there is a reading of the law that it would forbid students from watching and discussing Snow White or Bambi because of the heterosexuality they portray. However, sexual orientation is about *other people* that someone is attracted to. Masturbation is a solo activity, and doesn't involve sexual orientation. So by the law, it's OK to talk to kids about masturbation.

Likewise, both sexual orientation and gender identity are purely mental/behavioral topics. So under the law it's OK to talk about physical genitalia and physical reproduction with students, and/or show pictures - as long as the mental states aren't discussed.

The law *could* have banned a variety of all of these topics, but instead it singled out sexual orientation and gender identity. This clearly is pointed at LGBT people, rather than at sex ed in general.

Bolding mine.

So we can teach people not to be gay? What happened with "Born This Way!" In your rush to deffend the groomers you became a biggot.

Mental/behavioral traits can be inborn, and also might be affected by environment (like diet, allergens, etc.), but are not necessarily teachable (though they might be). I think in general how much is nature vs nurture is difficult to determine. We have some clues like twin studies, but since thankfully no children grow up in laboratory conditions, there's no direct way to assess how especially mental/behavioral traits are determined.

I think a lot of this is all incidental, though.

The people I am defending are myself, and other people I have known in raising my own kid - in my family, my church, and schools. (And also, many people who I grew up with.) What the Florida law does is ban any discussion of gayness or straightness. So discussing the story of two people falling in love and/or getting married is forbidden, because it would mean saying something about romantic attraction.

Even if Florida teachers are all horrible people, that doesn't justify a law that bans what should be ordinary information suitable for any age. Coming-of-age, romance, courtship, marriage, and families are all topics that are fine for kids in K-3 or even younger.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2022, 10:53:35 PM
I agree that heterosexuality is a sexual orientation. So there is a reading of the law that it would forbid students from watching and discussing Snow White or Bambi because of the heterosexuality they portray. However, sexual orientation is about *other people* that someone is attracted to. Masturbation is a solo activity, and doesn't involve sexual orientation. So by the law, it's OK to talk to kids about masturbation.

Likewise, both sexual orientation and gender identity are purely mental/behavioral topics. So under the law it's OK to talk about physical genitalia and physical reproduction with students, and/or show pictures - as long as the mental states aren't discussed.

The law *could* have banned a variety of all of these topics, but instead it singled out sexual orientation and gender identity. This clearly is pointed at LGBT people, rather than at sex ed in general.

Bolding mine.

So we can teach people not to be gay? What happened with "Born This Way!" In your rush to deffend the groomers you became a biggot.

Mental/behavioral traits can be inborn, and also might be affected by environment (like diet, allergens, etc.), but are not necessarily teachable (though they might be). I think in general how much is nature vs nurture is difficult to determine. We have some clues like twin studies, but since thankfully no children grow up in laboratory conditions, there's no direct way to assess how especially mental/behavioral traits are determined.

I think a lot of this is all incidental, though.

The people I am defending are myself, and other people I have known in raising my own kid - in my family, my church, and schools. (And also, many people who I grew up with.) What the Florida law does is ban any discussion of gayness or straightness. So discussing the story of two people falling in love and/or getting married is forbidden, because it would mean saying something about romantic attraction.

Even if Florida teachers are all horrible people, that doesn't justify a law that bans what should be ordinary information suitable for any age. Coming-of-age, romance, courtship, marriage, and families are all topics that are fine for kids in K-3 or even younger.

If you, your church, etc really feel the need to speak to YOUR children 5-8 about how they could be gay, how to insert dildos up their ass or maybe they are nonbinary otherkins you go ahead. It's YOUR children.

What you degenerates don't have the right is to push your degeneracy upon other people's children.

(Just in case you pretend not to understand what degeneracy I'm talking about: Children 5-8 don't need to hear jack shit about sexuality or any of the 666 imaginary genders or how magically by just wishing upon a star a man can become a woman.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ruprecht on April 25, 2022, 11:48:53 PM
It became a thing after Milo Yua...Youn...Yanni... you know that guy.
Milo was actually the opposite of a Pedo, he admitted to being underaged when he had sex with older man. He wasn't horrified by the interaction so he was cancelled. That was then, now he would be celebrated by the left.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 26, 2022, 01:00:33 AM
If you, your church, etc really feel the need to speak to YOUR children 5-8 about how they could be gay, how to insert dildos up their ass or maybe they are nonbinary otherkins you go ahead. It's YOUR children.

What you degenerates don't have the right is to push your degeneracy upon other people's children.

(Just in case you pretend not to understand what degeneracy I'm talking about: Children 5-8 don't need to hear jack shit about sexuality or any of the 666 imaginary genders or how magically by just wishing upon a star a man can become a woman.)

You keep jumping to shit like inserting dildos into asses, which is completely different from what I'm talking about. What I have done with my kid, and which I think is normal for any kid, is that it's fine to introduce, say, our minister's wife and say that they are married. Knowing that two people can be married is not in any way equivalent to showing them porn or dildos.

It's because you keep throwing in shit like this that I don't even understand what your actual position is. Do you think it is appropriate that kids ages 5-8 see romance and courtship, like in Snow White or Bambi, or are you claiming that such is inappropriate? Do you think that such romantic stories are appropriate only if they are heterosexual? Do you think it is OK to explain that two people are married?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2022, 01:11:17 AM
If you, your church, etc really feel the need to speak to YOUR children 5-8 about how they could be gay, how to insert dildos up their ass or maybe they are nonbinary otherkins you go ahead. It's YOUR children.

What you degenerates don't have the right is to push your degeneracy upon other people's children.

(Just in case you pretend not to understand what degeneracy I'm talking about: Children 5-8 don't need to hear jack shit about sexuality or any of the 666 imaginary genders or how magically by just wishing upon a star a man can become a woman.)

You keep jumping to shit like inserting dildos into asses, which is completely different from what I'm talking about. What I have done with my kid, and which I think is normal for any kid, is that it's fine to introduce, say, our minister's wife and say that they are married. Knowing that two people can be married is not in any way equivalent to showing them porn or dildos.

It's because you keep throwing in shit like this that I don't even understand what your actual position is. Do you think it is appropriate that kids ages 5-8 see romance and courtship, like in Snow White or Bambi, or are you claiming that such is inappropriate? Do you think that such romantic stories are appropriate only if they are heterosexual? Do you think it is OK to explain that two people are married?

Because that's what the schools have been "teaching to children 5-8. And you're playing defense for them by lying that the bill targets gays, it only targets groomers.

You keep crying about some hypotetical that maybe somehow someday somewhere a school might show them Bambi and not some other movie with gay characters.

I have repeatedly said: If schools end up NOT showing any of those (and I don't understand why they must show them) I'm perfectly fine if it stops the groomers.

Are you okay with the school not showing ANY movie if it stops the groomers?

Edited to add:

If the school shows a movie with gay characters, as long as they do not try to "explain" anything they should be safe.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on April 26, 2022, 04:25:50 AM
I check on woke.net just to see  how bad it's gotten and to remind myself why I'm a Bill Maher Democrat. Something weird happened that makes me wonder how erratic their cognitive functions are getting.

They just did something I was OK with, they gave a guy a one day ban for a really uncalled for joke.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/hammerbolt-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban-ableist-and-offensive-joke.896431/

Hey, I'm not woke but yeah, I'd have done the same.  The thing is really I'm amazed tge ban was one day. I mean I've seen those wokusts hand out much longer bans over scasual observations of reality or statements of fact. This Dick does an uncalled for joke abd gers just one day?

That's just incredibly erratic for them. I mean is the fanatical insanity on that board starting to eat the mods brains, kinda like how syphillis was eating Hitler's in his later years?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 26, 2022, 08:01:21 AM
I check on woke.net just to see  how bad it's gotten and to remind myself why I'm a Bill Maher Democrat. Something weird happened that makes me wonder how erratic their cognitive functions are getting.

They just did something I was OK with, they gave a guy a one day ban for a really uncalled for joke.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/hammerbolt-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban-ableist-and-offensive-joke.896431/

Hey, I'm not woke but yeah, I'd have done the same.  The thing is really I'm amazed tge ban was one day. I mean I've seen those wokusts hand out much longer bans over scasual observations of reality or statements of fact. This Dick does an uncalled for joke abd gers just one day?

That's just incredibly erratic for them. I mean is the fanatical insanity on that board starting to eat the mods brains, kinda like how syphillis was eating Hitler's in his later years?
Yeah, that's the problem. Rules enforcement at TBP is pretty much at the whims of the mods.

The ban in question, eh, guy probably had it coming. That IS crass, in my opinion. But there's no real consistency to the mods' rulings, nor is there any sense of proportion. People get thirty day (or more) time-outs for clinical discussion of slavery.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on April 26, 2022, 12:53:34 PM
They just did something I was OK with, they gave a guy a one day ban for a really uncalled for joke.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/hammerbolt-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban-ableist-and-offensive-joke.896431/

Well, I thought it was hilarious and fuck any prick that wants to censor humor.

Here's my contribution:

"Why do midgets laugh when they run?

Because the grass tickles their balls."
 

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2022, 01:38:39 PM
I check on woke.net just to see  how bad it's gotten and to remind myself why I'm a Bill Maher Democrat. Something weird happened that makes me wonder how erratic their cognitive functions are getting.

They just did something I was OK with, they gave a guy a one day ban for a really uncalled for joke.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/hammerbolt-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban-ableist-and-offensive-joke.896431/

Hey, I'm not woke but yeah, I'd have done the same.  The thing is really I'm amazed tge ban was one day. I mean I've seen those wokusts hand out much longer bans over scasual observations of reality or statements of fact. This Dick does an uncalled for joke abd gers just one day?

That's just incredibly erratic for them. I mean is the fanatical insanity on that board starting to eat the mods brains, kinda like how syphillis was eating Hitler's in his later years?

"I'm not woke but..." Proceeds to make a woke argument to justify the banning... Furthermore he would do the same.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 26, 2022, 01:43:43 PM
I check on woke.net just to see  how bad it's gotten and to remind myself why I'm a Bill Maher Democrat. Something weird happened that makes me wonder how erratic their cognitive functions are getting.

They just did something I was OK with, they gave a guy a one day ban for a really uncalled for joke.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/hammerbolt-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban-ableist-and-offensive-joke.896431/

Hey, I'm not woke but yeah, I'd have done the same.  The thing is really I'm amazed tge ban was one day. I mean I've seen those wokusts hand out much longer bans over scasual observations of reality or statements of fact. This Dick does an uncalled for joke abd gers just one day?

That's just incredibly erratic for them. I mean is the fanatical insanity on that board starting to eat the mods brains, kinda like how syphillis was eating Hitler's in his later years?

"I'm not woke but..." Proceeds to make a woke argument to justify the banning... Furthermore he would do the same.
I can accept an argument of 'this guy is an asshole' on personal grounds. I mean, I also think hammerbolt was a dickhead.

Doesn't change the point though. There's no consistency in moderation at TBP.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on April 26, 2022, 01:50:23 PM
"I'm not woke but..." Proceeds to make a woke argument to justify the banning... Furthermore he would do the same.

Exactly!

How many times have we seen this type of 'double standard' on this forum??

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Skullking on April 26, 2022, 03:19:16 PM
They just did something I was OK with, they gave a guy a one day ban for a really uncalled for joke.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/hammerbolt-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban-ableist-and-offensive-joke.896431/
Thanks for pointing the joke out  - I needed a laugh  ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on April 26, 2022, 03:42:49 PM

What is a group of singing terrorists called?

a taliband.


Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Skullking on April 26, 2022, 04:52:01 PM

What is a group of singing terrorists called?

a taliband.
Thank you for my second laugh of the day  ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on April 26, 2022, 05:12:09 PM
There's a difference between being non woke like me,  and bring a total asshole,  like a segment of the users here.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on April 26, 2022, 05:14:03 PM
"I'm not woke but..." Proceeds to make a woke argument to justify the banning... Furthermore he would do the same.

Exactly!

How many times have we seen this type of 'double standard' on this forum??

There ate other double standards here, like this place being about free speech and users being banned frequently.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2022, 05:22:46 PM
There's a difference between being non woke like me,  and bring a total asshole,  like a segment of the users here.

Proud total assholes if you please.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2022, 05:24:03 PM
"I'm not woke but..." Proceeds to make a woke argument to justify the banning... Furthermore he would do the same.

Exactly!

How many times have we seen this type of 'double standard' on this forum??

There ate other double standards here, like this place being about free speech and users being banned frequently.

Only the ethnosupremacists really. But I thought you were against total assholes? Those ARE total assholes, and aren't banned for a really mild joke.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 26, 2022, 05:45:01 PM
They just did something I was OK with, they gave a guy a one day ban for a really uncalled for joke.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/hammerbolt-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban-ableist-and-offensive-joke.896431/

Well, I thought it was hilarious and fuck any prick that wants to censor humor.

There's a time and place. And I'm not against censorship so long as it's consistent. I wouldn't want my (hypothetical) knitting forum to be overwhelmed with posts about politics or tractors or cripple jokes, for example.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on April 26, 2022, 06:19:16 PM
There's a time and place. And I'm not against censorship so long as it's consistent. I wouldn't want my (hypothetical) knitting forum to be overwhelmed with posts about politics or tractors or cripple jokes, for example.

But there's one key element you're missing on this occasion. That is where the joke was told it's a 'joke of the day' thread on TBP. So it's not as if Bill Hick's is arriving on you're knitting forum while talking about clam lappers.


How do we know that Christ was Irish?

Because he was 33 still lived at home thought his mother was a virgin and she thought he was the son of God.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on April 26, 2022, 06:24:49 PM
There ate other double standards here, like this place being about free speech and users being banned frequently.

Yep, this place bans people all the damn time. Pundit had to give up his day job in order to keep up with the moderation just for all the bannings.

What’s an edible part of a wheelchair? A vegetable.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on April 26, 2022, 06:33:34 PM
There's a time and place. And I'm not against censorship so long as it's consistent. I wouldn't want my (hypothetical) knitting forum to be overwhelmed with posts about politics or tractors or cripple jokes, for example.

But there's one key element you're missing on this occasion. That is where the joke was told it's a 'joke of the day' thread on TBP. So it's not as if Bill Hick's is arriving on you're knitting forum while talking about clam lappers.


How do we know that Christ was Irish?

Because he was 33 still lived at home thought his mother was a virgin and she thought he was the son of God.

So it was OK in a joke thread?

What if the joke was about Jews being killed in the holocaust, or blacks being murdered by the KKK?

Now yes the joke here wad not that bad, yes. The point is there should be some limits on how far you can go,  and I'd have been OK with thst guy getting an even longer ban.  Not a permaban for that one, no, and I was surprised he didn't get one so I had to kinda respect the mod there.

If he'd made a holocaust joke or a lynching, or rape joke yeah id have permabanned him and been OK with the mods there doing it too.

I'm just amazed in this one case they made a good call,  it does highlight how excessive they usually are.

BTW loved your jesus joke. :D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on April 26, 2022, 06:46:35 PM

So it was OK in a joke thread?
What if the joke was about Jews being killed in the holocaust, or blacks being murdered by the KKK?

Sure, of course, it was okay. It's only a freakin joke for a start and it was in the right place too. Those mods are morons on TBP they are not a good example for anything.

Changing the goalposts eh? And using the slippery slope fallacy. You see he didn't tell holocaust or KKK jokes did he??

But in all seriousness here's a hypothetical question.

Who would win a wheelchair race between Steven Hawking and Christopher Reeve?







Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 26, 2022, 07:25:16 PM
There's a time and place. And I'm not against censorship so long as it's consistent. I wouldn't want my (hypothetical) knitting forum to be overwhelmed with posts about politics or tractors or cripple jokes, for example.

But there's one key element you're missing on this occasion. That is where the joke was told it's a 'joke of the day' thread on TBP. So it's not as if Bill Hick's is arriving on you're knitting forum while talking about clam lappers.

I was missing it. I haven't signed into rpg.net in years. I just mock them from a distance.

So yeah, rpg.net has no sense of humor and tosses their weight around like a 900 lb gorilla.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on April 26, 2022, 07:29:58 PM
no sense of humor and tosses their weight around like a 900 lb gorilla.

Indeed they are a pack of bedwetters. It's not as if you're actually laughing at 'real' cripples. You laughing at a joke... It's just a bit of gallows humor.



Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 26, 2022, 09:55:01 PM
And another round of rampant stupidity.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/harlock999-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban.896579/

The proles are not allowed to disagree with mods, particularly with anything so inconvenient as actual facts. Watching Zeea and Dawgstar simp for the current regime's incompetence is darkly hilarious.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvish-lore-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-threadcrapping.896587/

You are also not allowed to question the spread of PBTA, despite it being a crappy Babby's First RPG system.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on April 26, 2022, 10:55:04 PM
Who would win a wheelchair race between Steven Hawking and Christopher Reeve?
Hard to say, probably dead even.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 27, 2022, 01:13:38 AM
I guess since lefties have decided to call anyone to the right of Mao nazi or fascist, it only fits that finally folks on the right have decided to just call all lefties pedophiles.  The reaction is priceless. Tossing around nazi/racist/-ist is so easy, but catching that pedo insult seems to be hard.

I mean, I see your point and it's not a bad one. My fear is that the harm of calling everyone a nazi was to diminish what it actually meant to be a nazi and to diminish the holocaust. And I absolutely think that has happened - the meaning of a real nazi is meaningfully reduced in society today because of that behavior you described.

I fear that will now happen with pedophiles. And that would be very bad. Diminishing the meaning of that accusation would not be a good result from this.

The only ones calling everything and everyone pedos are the leftists, and have been doing so for years, just take a look at what they say about any anime/manga.

Not the same to call pedos or groomers to pedos and groomers intent on showing porn to small children.

I have not seen anything about anime, but that sounds like a very niche complaint which isn't nationwide or widespread but is instead very geek culture focused.

You haven't seen it therefore what?

Where do I claim it's "nationwide"?

I didn't, I just cited one example of leftards calling anything/anyone they don't like pedos. While you need to want to push porn into minors under the pretense of education for the other sides to call you a pedo/groomer.

No, it's not a typo, SIDES, because I have seen gays, lesbians, trans and even commies speak against the pedo groomers. So it's not just "Teh Right", it's sane/normal people vs the woke. Because it's the woke who are pushing the grooming and pedophilia.

Yes, I know, as sane and normal as you can be while still being a commie.

I think it's the latest fad talking point from Q, and a load of bullshit.

You being a resident expert on fad talking points.......

You've accused me of it in the past, and now I can't take expertise credit for it when it's applicable?

Yeah, I can recognize when a fad taking point is being used. This whole "You're all pedos and groomers!" thing is a Q talking point. Nothing has changed in the schools regarding this topic from last year, but all of a sudden the talking point is accusing everyone of being a groomer. Pretty easy to spot that talking point for what it is. Someone even admitted it was just retaliation for behavior of the left towards the right, earlier in this thread.

Or are you really arguing all of a sudden this year our entire K-12 system is full of groomers and pedophiles, despite most teachers and administrators being career people who have been there for a long time? Or that there was some magical reveal of what had been previously hidden despite zero evidence of that?

I mean, how often did you even hear the term "groomer" as meaning something other than "someone who grooms pets" prior to a year ago? Yes, this is what a fad looks like.

Naw it's just the latest fad. There will be a new one in a few months or at most after the next election. The goal, as always, is to tweak the SJWs and not champion a genuine issue. Watch this space - the usual suspects here will repeat it like good little Q martinets.

Wow, you'd think that I struck a nerve....

Give it up, liar. Your intellectual dishonesty is known.

Besides, as soon as the wind blows in another direction, you will champion a different SJW approved narrative.

I have not championed this one, so what makes you think I will champion the next one?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on April 27, 2022, 01:46:36 AM
And another round of rampant stupidity.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/harlock999-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban.896579/

The proles are not allowed to disagree with mods, particularly with anything so inconvenient as actual facts. Watching Zeea and Dawgstar simp for the current regime's incompetence is darkly hilarious.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvish-lore-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-threadcrapping.896587/

You are also not allowed to question the spread of PBTA, despite it being a crappy Babby's First RPG system.

Fuck dude!

The first banning, I mean I'm a progressive Democrat and I hate txxxp and it's followers with passion. I think that it was terrible that dozens of them weren't shot on Jan 6 by guards and police officers instead of just ashli babbit. (You know if they were left extremists there would have been a massacre)
but I still see that perma ban as excessive, and an example of what hypocrites the mods are.  Not to mention it's amazing  how they keep their blood in with skin that thin.

The elvish ban was just bullshit. So she doesn't  like PbtA and think games need more diversity. 30 day ban for expressing an opinion on RPGs,  on a rpg site.

Maybe the writers of PbtA have some great blackmail material on wokenet, like video of Darren Maclannen doing  LARP F. A. T. A. L. and getting pegged by every female mod on the site. God I hope so.

Any time anyone forbids any criticism or dissent towards him,  you have a real asshole.

I guess that makes wokenet a rectigarchy,  a place ruled by a group of assholes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on April 27, 2022, 05:47:14 AM
Who would win a wheelchair race between Steven Hawking and Christopher Reeve?
Hard to say, probably dead even.

lol very good!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 27, 2022, 08:12:08 AM
And another round of rampant stupidity.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/harlock999-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban.896579/

The proles are not allowed to disagree with mods, particularly with anything so inconvenient as actual facts. Watching Zeea and Dawgstar simp for the current regime's incompetence is darkly hilarious.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvish-lore-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-threadcrapping.896587/

You are also not allowed to question the spread of PBTA, despite it being a crappy Babby's First RPG system.

Fuck dude!

The first banning, I mean I'm a progressive Democrat and I hate txxxp and it's followers with passion. I think that it was terrible that dozens of them weren't shot on Jan 6 by guards and police officers instead of just ashli babbit. (You know if they were left extremists there would have been a massacre)
but I still see that perma ban as excessive, and an example of what hypocrites the mods are.  Not to mention it's amazing  how they keep their blood in with skin that thin.

The elvish ban was just bullshit. So she doesn't  like PbtA and think games need more diversity. 30 day ban for expressing an opinion on RPGs,  on a rpg site.

Maybe the writers of PbtA have some great blackmail material on wokenet, like video of Darren Maclannen doing  LARP F. A. T. A. L. and getting pegged by every female mod on the site. God I hope so.

Any time anyone forbids any criticism or dissent towards him,  you have a real asshole.

I guess that makes wokenet a rectigarchy,  a place ruled by a group of assholes.
Side comment here.

His name is Trump, you fucking pussy. Stop talking like he's fucking Voldemort or Sauron or something.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 27, 2022, 09:00:21 AM
And another round of rampant stupidity.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/harlock999-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban.896579/

The proles are not allowed to disagree with mods, particularly with anything so inconvenient as actual facts. Watching Zeea and Dawgstar simp for the current regime's incompetence is darkly hilarious.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvish-lore-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-threadcrapping.896587/

You are also not allowed to question the spread of PBTA, despite it being a crappy Babby's First RPG system.

Fuck dude!

The first banning, I mean I'm a progressive Democrat and I hate txxxp and it's followers with passion. I think that it was terrible that dozens of them weren't shot on Jan 6 by guards and police officers instead of just ashli babbit. (You know if they were left extremists there would have been a massacre)
but I still see that perma ban as excessive, and an example of what hypocrites the mods are.  Not to mention it's amazing  how they keep their blood in with skin that thin.

The elvish ban was just bullshit. So she doesn't  like PbtA and think games need more diversity. 30 day ban for expressing an opinion on RPGs,  on a rpg site.

Maybe the writers of PbtA have some great blackmail material on wokenet, like video of Darren Maclannen doing  LARP F. A. T. A. L. and getting pegged by every female mod on the site. God I hope so.

Any time anyone forbids any criticism or dissent towards him,  you have a real asshole.

I guess that makes wokenet a rectigarchy,  a place ruled by a group of assholes.

  As to the leftists being massacred...bullshit.  People were all over the capitol accosting senators during the the frat boy confirmation hearings for SCOTUS.  They also were on the white house lawn during the mourning of St Floyd.  They rioted all over DC during the inauguration speech,  leftists literally took over a police station and a full section of a city.  So let's not get hyperbolic as if there were some over reaction towards leftist rioters.  Kent state was a really long time ago, and if there is going to be a massacre it is going to be of right wing (though I think Davidians are their own breed, but I am sure the leftists think of them as right wing) victim flavor. 

   I get that you hate Trump, argument can be made to that effect, but acting as if there is some sort of over use of the law against leftists is just a complete lie.  I will also advise I would temper how much violence you want used towards rioters, because once you decide to flip the switch, it is not flipping back, and you will see a right wing motivated riot.  It will not be about walking inside the velvet ropes either.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on April 27, 2022, 10:06:13 AM
And another round of rampant stupidity.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/harlock999-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban.896579/

The proles are not allowed to disagree with mods, particularly with anything so inconvenient as actual facts. Watching Zeea and Dawgstar simp for the current regime's incompetence is darkly hilarious.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvish-lore-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-threadcrapping.896587/

You are also not allowed to question the spread of PBTA, despite it being a crappy Babby's First RPG system.

Fuck dude!

The first banning, I mean I'm a progressive Democrat and I hate txxxp and it's followers with passion. I think that it was terrible that dozens of them weren't shot on Jan 6 by guards and police officers instead of just ashli babbit. (You know if they were left extremists there would have been a massacre)
but I still see that perma ban as excessive, and an example of what hypocrites the mods are.  Not to mention it's amazing  how they keep their blood in with skin that thin.

The elvish ban was just bullshit. So she doesn't  like PbtA and think games need more diversity. 30 day ban for expressing an opinion on RPGs,  on a rpg site.

Maybe the writers of PbtA have some great blackmail material on wokenet, like video of Darren Maclannen doing  LARP F. A. T. A. L. and getting pegged by every female mod on the site. God I hope so.

Any time anyone forbids any criticism or dissent towards him,  you have a real asshole.

I guess that makes wokenet a rectigarchy,  a place ruled by a group of assholes.
Side comment here.

His name is Trump, you fucking pussy. Stop talking like he's fucking Voldemort or Sauron or something.


Fuck you,  a lot of people are sick of thst toxic narcissist's fucking ugly face and name everywhere. Do yes to mock it dome of us censor it's name which it likes to put on everything everywhere.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on April 27, 2022, 10:20:30 AM
Fuck you,  a lot of people are sick of thst toxic narcissist's fucking ugly face and name everywhere.

This will cheer you up, princess.

What do you call a person with down syndrome in a bath tub?

Vegetable soup.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 27, 2022, 10:25:38 AM
And another round of rampant stupidity.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/harlock999-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban.896579/

The proles are not allowed to disagree with mods, particularly with anything so inconvenient as actual facts. Watching Zeea and Dawgstar simp for the current regime's incompetence is darkly hilarious.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvish-lore-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-threadcrapping.896587/

You are also not allowed to question the spread of PBTA, despite it being a crappy Babby's First RPG system.

Fuck dude!

The first banning, I mean I'm a progressive Democrat and I hate txxxp and it's followers with passion. I think that it was terrible that dozens of them weren't shot on Jan 6 by guards and police officers instead of just ashli babbit. (You know if they were left extremists there would have been a massacre)
but I still see that perma ban as excessive, and an example of what hypocrites the mods are.  Not to mention it's amazing  how they keep their blood in with skin that thin.

The elvish ban was just bullshit. So she doesn't  like PbtA and think games need more diversity. 30 day ban for expressing an opinion on RPGs,  on a rpg site.

Maybe the writers of PbtA have some great blackmail material on wokenet, like video of Darren Maclannen doing  LARP F. A. T. A. L. and getting pegged by every female mod on the site. God I hope so.

Any time anyone forbids any criticism or dissent towards him,  you have a real asshole.

I guess that makes wokenet a rectigarchy,  a place ruled by a group of assholes.
Side comment here.

His name is Trump, you fucking pussy. Stop talking like he's fucking Voldemort or Sauron or something.


Fuck you,  a lot of people are sick of thst toxic narcissist's fucking ugly face and name everywhere. Do yes to mock it dome of us censor it's name which it likes to put on everything everywhere.
Yawn. I've been seeing the same shit for a long time. You called Bush 'the shrub' for the same reasons.

Pussy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on April 27, 2022, 10:28:32 AM
I'm no Trump fan at all but I do love to bathe in the tears of the SJWs.

So for that reason alone, Hail Trump!

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 27, 2022, 10:35:31 AM
In a mod team full of fucktards, sometimes I swear it's like they compete to see who has the most moronic take.

Latest entry, from Killfalcon: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dweller-in-darkness-receives-a-warning-threadban.896619/

The shot, from Dweller, talking about how the music industry gave an award to Louis CK:
Quote
For an album that just isn't terribly good. I mean, it's not bad, I chuckled a few times and guffawed once or twice, but it's very much an album where he's treading water. Lewis Black's album was just far more entertaining and Nate Bargatze did the "middle class schlub talks about how much it sucks to be middle class" schitck better as well.

And the chaser, from Killfalcon:
Quote
This thread is not for reviews of comedy albums. Leave the thread.
It couldn't possibly be that Dweller was criticizing the music industry for giving an award to what he perceived as a mediocre album. Oh no. Can't be that. Once again: you post at TBP at your own peril, since ANYTHING can be deliberately misconstrued.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 27, 2022, 10:37:53 AM
And another round of rampant stupidity.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/harlock999-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban.896579/

The proles are not allowed to disagree with mods, particularly with anything so inconvenient as actual facts. Watching Zeea and Dawgstar simp for the current regime's incompetence is darkly hilarious.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/elvish-lore-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-threadcrapping.896587/

You are also not allowed to question the spread of PBTA, despite it being a crappy Babby's First RPG system.

Fuck dude!

The first banning, I mean I'm a progressive Democrat and I hate txxxp and it's followers with passion. I think that it was terrible that dozens of them weren't shot on Jan 6 by guards and police officers instead of just ashli babbit. (You know if they were left extremists there would have been a massacre)
but I still see that perma ban as excessive, and an example of what hypocrites the mods are.  Not to mention it's amazing  how they keep their blood in with skin that thin.

The elvish ban was just bullshit. So she doesn't  like PbtA and think games need more diversity. 30 day ban for expressing an opinion on RPGs,  on a rpg site.

Maybe the writers of PbtA have some great blackmail material on wokenet, like video of Darren Maclannen doing  LARP F. A. T. A. L. and getting pegged by every female mod on the site. God I hope so.

Any time anyone forbids any criticism or dissent towards him,  you have a real asshole.

I guess that makes wokenet a rectigarchy,  a place ruled by a group of assholes.

He's not woke, he's just your garden variety fascist.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 27, 2022, 04:16:59 PM
Continuing the branched discussion of LGBT stuff with GeekyBugle. I'm considering submitting a new thread for this since I'm taking the time.

You keep jumping to shit like inserting dildos into asses, which is completely different from what I'm talking about. What I have done with my kid, and which I think is normal for any kid, is that it's fine to introduce, say, our minister's wife and say that they are married. Knowing that two people can be married is not in any way equivalent to showing them porn or dildos.

It's because you keep throwing in shit like this that I don't even understand what your actual position is. Do you think it is appropriate that kids ages 5-8 see romance and courtship, like in Snow White or Bambi, or are you claiming that such is inappropriate? Do you think that such romantic stories are appropriate only if they are heterosexual? Do you think it is OK to explain that two people are married?

I have repeatedly said: If schools end up NOT showing any of those (and I don't understand why they must show them) I'm perfectly fine if it stops the groomers.

Are you okay with the school not showing ANY movie if it stops the groomers?

Edited to add:

If the school shows a movie with gay characters, as long as they do not try to "explain" anything they should be safe.

First, regarding my question: Thanks, that at least clarifies somewhat your position to me, but I would want to check. So you think it's OK for gay characters to appear in a movie (or presumably a story or book) for young kids, but it's not OK for the teacher to have any discussion or answer questions about it. Is that right? For example, let's say some kindergarteners get read "Heather Has Two Mommies". The teacher can read the book text aloud, but if a kid asks "Are Mama Jane and Mama Kate married?" - then you think the teacher should have to remain silent. If the kids watch Snow White, could the teacher answer questions or lead discussion about that story?

I am opposed to anything like inserting dildos into asses or inserting dildos into vaginas -- but just talking about a love story like Snow White or coming-of-age like Bambi is perfectly appropriate for young kids, regardless of whether it is straight or gay. So it seems like I have a different line than you. Which we should be able to discuss without jumping to hyperbole.

----------

To answer your question about the school not showing any movies... The question presumes cause and effect that banning all movies in school will prevent child sexual abuse. Yes, if banning showing movies in K-3 would prevent child sexual abuse, then I'd be for it. However, I don't believe that hypothetical is the case, nor do I think the Florida law will do so. I think the best way to prevent child sexual abuse is to catch and prosecute the fuckers, by encouraging kids to come forwards about it.

Having watched your videos, the evidence you've cited for sexual abuse in Florida K-3 classes is:

Assuming the allegations are true, I'm opposed to all of these. However, none of them are addressed by the Florida law, since none involve anything in K-3 and none of them involve classroom instruction. Why I am opposed to the Florida law has nothing to do with these. It should be legal for teachers to talk about topics like coming-of-age, romance, courtship, marriage, and families. Since these topics appear in fiction and non-fiction for kids this age, it should be legal for teachers to talk about them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 27, 2022, 06:28:54 PM
Continuing the branched discussion of LGBT stuff with GeekyBugle. I'm considering submitting a new thread for this since I'm taking the time.

You keep jumping to shit like inserting dildos into asses, which is completely different from what I'm talking about. What I have done with my kid, and which I think is normal for any kid, is that it's fine to introduce, say, our minister's wife and say that they are married. Knowing that two people can be married is not in any way equivalent to showing them porn or dildos.

It's because you keep throwing in shit like this that I don't even understand what your actual position is. Do you think it is appropriate that kids ages 5-8 see romance and courtship, like in Snow White or Bambi, or are you claiming that such is inappropriate? Do you think that such romantic stories are appropriate only if they are heterosexual? Do you think it is OK to explain that two people are married?

I have repeatedly said: If schools end up NOT showing any of those (and I don't understand why they must show them) I'm perfectly fine if it stops the groomers.

Are you okay with the school not showing ANY movie if it stops the groomers?

Edited to add:

If the school shows a movie with gay characters, as long as they do not try to "explain" anything they should be safe.

First, regarding my question: Thanks, that at least clarifies somewhat your position to me, but I would want to check. So you think it's OK for gay characters to appear in a movie (or presumably a story or book) for young kids, but it's not OK for the teacher to have any discussion or answer questions about it. Is that right? For example, let's say some kindergarteners get read "Heather Has Two Mommies". The teacher can read the book text aloud, but if a kid asks "Are Mama Jane and Mama Kate married?" - then you think the teacher should have to remain silent. If the kids watch Snow White, could the teacher answer questions or lead discussion about that story?

I am opposed to anything like inserting dildos into asses or inserting dildos into vaginas -- but just talking about a love story like Snow White or coming-of-age like Bambi is perfectly appropriate for young kids, regardless of whether it is straight or gay. So it seems like I have a different line than you. Which we should be able to discuss without jumping to hyperbole.

----------

To answer your question about the school not showing any movies... The question presumes cause and effect that banning all movies in school will prevent child sexual abuse. Yes, if banning showing movies in K-3 would prevent child sexual abuse, then I'd be for it. However, I don't believe that hypothetical is the case, nor do I think the Florida law will do so. I think the best way to prevent child sexual abuse is to catch and prosecute the fuckers, by encouraging kids to come forwards about it.

Having watched your videos, the evidence you've cited for sexual abuse in Florida K-3 classes is:
  • New Zealand psychologist John Money and his horrific work from the 1960s on how to change the gender of babies
  • German psychologist Helmut Kentler and his horrific experiment from the 1960s to 1990s placing children with pedophilic foster parents
  • A cancelled British local children's theater show for parents to take their kids to that included nudity and other explicit topics
  • California mother Jessica Konen who claims two middle school teachers ran an after-school club that encouraged her child to identify as transgender, who were then suspended
  • A book with sexually explicit passages ("Gender Queer: A Memoir") that appeared in several high school libraries in Florida

Assuming the allegations are true, I'm opposed to all of these. However, none of them are addressed by the Florida law, since none involve anything in K-3 and none of them involve classroom instruction. Why I am opposed to the Florida law has nothing to do with these. It should be legal for teachers to talk about topics like coming-of-age, romance, courtship, marriage, and families. Since these topics appear in fiction and non-fiction for kids this age, it should be legal for teachers to talk about them.

Wait, is marriage sexuality? If the kid asks if they have sex the teacher needs to remain silent, but a child 5-8 doesn't ask those questions. Which is why I never knew shit about the private life of my teachers. If one got pregnant and someone asked if she was she would answer, she would never tell us HOW it happened at that age.

As for your question: Not all grooming is to have sex with them, and I said groomers not pedos. They are being groomed into leftwing ideologies. Like believeing a man can become a woman, all white people are bad, non-whites can't compete on a level playing field with whitey, and there's a gazillion genders.

You do understand that children don't want to be boring right? Why be vanilla when you can be special and have your own special pronouns and you get to bully others into using them and you also get praise from your teacher and to keep it secret from your parents?

You also understand that children who still believe a fat guy flies with reindeer in one night across the world leaving presents in every home are specially vulnerable to being convinced of sutff? Like the vampire that lived in my grandpa's closet? I trully believed that, it was a friendly vampire and would never kill my grandpa because they were friends.

Do you think someone could have convinced me that I was queer something? A small autistic boy, sudenly he's not weird but special. Do you understand that? And, if you do, do you simply not care?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 27, 2022, 07:02:57 PM
So jhkim doesn't like the evidence...

Okay lets see if we can find some on the age range being discused, I hope your second grade is the same age group than it's here.

Disgusting Furry
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518604990801223681 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518604990801223681)

Since it wouldn't impact her if she wasn't teaching the age group..
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518213205159563264 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518213205159563264)

More conspiracy theories...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1517294110876520448 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1517294110876520448)

No one is teaching 5 year olds to masturbate...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516807025308622861 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516807025308622861)

I'm sure it will stay in academia...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1458985538334068740 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1458985538334068740)

I'm sure second graders NEED to learn about the clitoris...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516524923556188175/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516524923556188175/photo/1)

This is the last one...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516075612817051650 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516075612817051650)

I choose to stop, because I could go on and on, now please do come back and tell me it's not in the age group we're discussing.

And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 27, 2022, 07:33:53 PM
So jhkim doesn't like the evidence...

Okay lets see if we can find some on the age range being discused, I hope your second grade is the same age group than it's here.

Disgusting Furry
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518604990801223681 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518604990801223681)

Since it wouldn't impact her if she wasn't teaching the age group..
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518213205159563264 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518213205159563264)

More conspiracy theories...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1517294110876520448 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1517294110876520448)

No one is teaching 5 year olds to masturbate...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516807025308622861 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516807025308622861)

I'm sure it will stay in academia...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1458985538334068740 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1458985538334068740)

I'm sure second graders NEED to learn about the clitoris...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516524923556188175/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516524923556188175/photo/1)

This is the last one...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516075612817051650 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516075612817051650)

I choose to stop, because I could go on and on, now please do come back and tell me it's not in the age group we're discussing.

And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.

Greetings!

I remember reading about the sex education teacher in Kentucky, Hermano. *Sigh* Yet another depraved, fat white Liberal whore wanting to corrupt our children!

The Daily Wire also talked about it. I think Matt Walsh's program. There have been other as well, like Fox News. Of course, the cock-sucking Liberals have never heard about this epidemic of hit sweeping through our country--because deep down, they approve of it, Hermano. They *like it*. They want more depraved sex, and they want to spread depravity to children, so they are just as fucked up and depraved as the Liberal adults. Look at that fat white Liberal whore. They are all about masturbation, anal sex, weird sex, and pumping it all into children, as young as possible.

Napalm or woodchippers, my friend? ;D

They are all so fucking disgusting. Look how they are corrupting and destroying our society, GeekyBugle!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 27, 2022, 07:37:55 PM
So jhkim doesn't like the evidence...

Okay lets see if we can find some on the age range being discused, I hope your second grade is the same age group than it's here.

Disgusting Furry
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518604990801223681 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518604990801223681)

Since it wouldn't impact her if she wasn't teaching the age group..
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518213205159563264 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518213205159563264)

More conspiracy theories...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1517294110876520448 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1517294110876520448)

No one is teaching 5 year olds to masturbate...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516807025308622861 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516807025308622861)

I'm sure it will stay in academia...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1458985538334068740 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1458985538334068740)

I'm sure second graders NEED to learn about the clitoris...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516524923556188175/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516524923556188175/photo/1)

This is the last one...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516075612817051650 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516075612817051650)

I choose to stop, because I could go on and on, now please do come back and tell me it's not in the age group we're discussing.

And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.

Greetings!

I remember reading about the sex education teacher in Kentucky, Hermano. *Sigh* Yet another depraved, fat white Liberal whore wanting to corrupt our children!

The Daily Wire also talked about it. I think Matt Walsh's program. There have been other as well, like Fox News. Of course, the cock-sucking Liberals have never heard about this epidemic of hit sweeping through our country--because deep down, they approve of it, Hermano. They *like it*. They want more depraved sex, and they want to spread depravity to children, so they are just as fucked up and depraved as the Liberal adults. Look at that fat white Liberal whore. They are all about masturbation, anal sex, weird sex, and pumping it all into children, as young as possible.

Napalm or woodchippers, my friend? ;D

They are all so fucking disgusting. Look how they are corrupting and destroying our society, GeekyBugle!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I'm of two minds: The cheapest or the more horrific? Or both?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: RandyB on April 27, 2022, 08:26:16 PM
So jhkim doesn't like the evidence...

Okay lets see if we can find some on the age range being discused, I hope your second grade is the same age group than it's here.

Disgusting Furry
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518604990801223681 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518604990801223681)

Since it wouldn't impact her if she wasn't teaching the age group..
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518213205159563264 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518213205159563264)

More conspiracy theories...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1517294110876520448 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1517294110876520448)

No one is teaching 5 year olds to masturbate...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516807025308622861 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516807025308622861)

I'm sure it will stay in academia...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1458985538334068740 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1458985538334068740)

I'm sure second graders NEED to learn about the clitoris...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516524923556188175/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516524923556188175/photo/1)

This is the last one...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516075612817051650 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516075612817051650)

I choose to stop, because I could go on and on, now please do come back and tell me it's not in the age group we're discussing.

And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.

Greetings!

I remember reading about the sex education teacher in Kentucky, Hermano. *Sigh* Yet another depraved, fat white Liberal whore wanting to corrupt our children!

The Daily Wire also talked about it. I think Matt Walsh's program. There have been other as well, like Fox News. Of course, the cock-sucking Liberals have never heard about this epidemic of hit sweeping through our country--because deep down, they approve of it, Hermano. They *like it*. They want more depraved sex, and they want to spread depravity to children, so they are just as fucked up and depraved as the Liberal adults. Look at that fat white Liberal whore. They are all about masturbation, anal sex, weird sex, and pumping it all into children, as young as possible.

Napalm or woodchippers, my friend? ;D

They are all so fucking disgusting. Look how they are corrupting and destroying our society, GeekyBugle!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Embrace the healing power of "and". :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on April 27, 2022, 08:58:23 PM
And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.
You can reason with actual liberals.  They are still responsive to logic and empirical data.
You cannot reason with leftists.  Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.
Leftists are cultural/race/gender/intersectional Marxists who want a revolution to bring about the dictatorship of the anti-racists.
Leftists believe anything that undermines western liberalism and causes chaos is great. 
TBP and other woke sites practice repressive tolerance... that which does not fall within the leftist ideology cannot be tolerated and must be suppressed.
 

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 27, 2022, 09:19:49 PM
And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.
You can reason with actual liberals.  They are still responsive to logic and empirical data.
You cannot reason with leftists.  Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.
Leftists are cultural/race/gender/intersectional Marxists who want a revolution to bring about the dictatorship of the anti-racists.
Leftists believe anything that undermines western liberalism and causes chaos is great. 
TBP and other woke sites practice repressive tolerance... that which does not fall within the leftist ideology cannot be tolerated and must be suppressed.

You did notice I used quotes right?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on April 27, 2022, 09:29:14 PM
Greetings!

I remember reading about the sex education teacher in Kentucky, Hermano. *Sigh* Yet another depraved, fat white Liberal whore wanting to corrupt our children!

The Daily Wire also talked about it. I think Matt Walsh's program. There have been other as well, like Fox News. Of course, the cock-sucking Liberals have never heard about this epidemic of hit sweeping through our country--because deep down, they approve of it, Hermano. They *like it*. They want more depraved sex, and they want to spread depravity to children, so they are just as fucked up and depraved as the Liberal adults. Look at that fat white Liberal whore. They are all about masturbation, anal sex, weird sex, and pumping it all into children, as young as possible.

Napalm or woodchippers, my friend? ;D

They are all so fucking disgusting. Look how they are corrupting and destroying our society, GeekyBugle!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Woodchippers are more environmentally friendly, so they will at least appreciate that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 27, 2022, 10:23:11 PM
Go for efficiency. No matter how satisfying it might seem to feed these bastards feet-first into the chipper, it's not worth the cost to your soul.

Just put a cap in their dome, bury them, and move on.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 27, 2022, 10:48:30 PM
Go for efficiency. No matter how satisfying it might seem to feed these bastards feet-first into the chipper, it's not worth the cost to your soul.

Just put a cap in their dome, bury them, and move on.

It's also cheapest. But why bury them? I hear we need to help preserve the shark and alligator populations...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 28, 2022, 03:17:27 AM
As a general issue with the examples - I don't go searching through Twitter in order to see what the liberals are doing in schools. My knowledge of what liberal and LGBT teachers do is from living in one of the most heavily liberal and LGBT-friendly places in the country, and being closely involved in my son's public school education, as well as training and experience as a K-12 teacher myself (high school science in my case).

I am willing to look over the Twitter links, but if I see a huge difference from my experience, then I will suspect that the links aren't representative of what liberal teachers typically do. There are around 3.5 million public school teachers in the U.S., so a list of 7 examples may well not be representative. I've added numbers to the links quoted below.


So jhkim doesn't like the evidence...

Okay lets see if we can find some on the age range being discused, I hope your second grade is the same age group than it's here.

Disgusting Furry
(1) https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518604990801223681 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518604990801223681)

Since it wouldn't impact her if she wasn't teaching the age group..
(2) https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518213205159563264 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518213205159563264)

More conspiracy theories...
(3) https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1517294110876520448 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1517294110876520448)

No one is teaching 5 year olds to masturbate...
(4) https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516807025308622861 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516807025308622861)

I'm sure it will stay in academia...
(5) https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1458985538334068740 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1458985538334068740)

I'm sure second graders NEED to learn about the clitoris...
(6) https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516524923556188175/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516524923556188175/photo/1)

This is the last one...
(7) https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516075612817051650 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516075612817051650)

I choose to stop, because I could go on and on, now please do come back and tell me it's not in the age group we're discussing.

And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.

To comment specifically:

(1) This appears to be a hoax created by trolls. There is no attribution of the parent complaining, and no attempt to back it up. Here's an article documenting, and it was picked up by news outlets as well: https://mashable.com/article/libs-of-tiktok-furries-school-troll-fake

(2) Given that the teacher is personally transgender and just went through transition, it is necessary to say something to their students. There is nothing explicit in the video. The presentation is very short and is about their own identity. It seems to me that students would get roughly the same information just by interacting with an openly transgender teacher in general. They'd have questions, and even if the teacher didn't directly answer them, they'd ask around or look at how they were referred to, and learn by observation.

(3) I don't have a copy of the books in question, so I'm don't know the details here. From the description, I can tell there are transgender characters, but I don't know the content. You previously said that you were OK with gay characters appearing in books for kids, but from your tone, I gather it is not OK for transgender characters to appear in books for kids. I'd want to read the books to see what I thought.

(4) You're implying that this is something taught to toddlers - but from articles and the archived website, the camp appears to be a private program for teenagers and educators to teach if invited. The video clip is saying that toddlers masturbate - which factually they do - but the sex ed is for teenagers. Here's an article about the program: https://www.100daysinappalachia.com/2019/09/where-sex-education-lacks-in-appalachian-schools-this-kentucky-program-is-attempting-to-fill-in/    It does not specify the age ranges, but it refers to teens and that is who is pictured.

(5) You're implying that this video endorses sexual abuse. However, when I watch it - it is talking about people who feel attraction towards minors, but who are moral and don't act on their impulses. Since calling someone a "pedophile" implies being a sex offender, it suggests the alternate term. I'm grossed out by people who feel such attraction, but it's only people who act that are evil.

(6) I can't seem to get a download of the revised New Jersey sex ed standards. From articles about them, I see that parents can opt out of them either way. You apparently object to learning the proper names of one's own body parts like penis, testicles, vagina, and clitoris. I think most kids will learn that well before 2nd grade. I could see a parent opting out, but knowing those names isn't crazy or abusive.

(7) On the one hand, the teacher isn't clear about the Florida law - and seems to be having a knee-jerk reaction. I don't expect coherence or clear thought from a TikTok video. On the other hand, you yourself just expressed the position that you thought gay characters could appear in stories, but that teachers couldn't explain anything about those gay characters.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on April 28, 2022, 08:43:51 AM
So jhkim doesn't like the evidence...

Okay lets see if we can find some on the age range being discused, I hope your second grade is the same age group than it's here.

Disgusting Furry
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518604990801223681 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518604990801223681)

Since it wouldn't impact her if she wasn't teaching the age group..
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518213205159563264 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518213205159563264)

More conspiracy theories...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1517294110876520448 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1517294110876520448)

No one is teaching 5 year olds to masturbate...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516807025308622861 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516807025308622861)

I'm sure it will stay in academia...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1458985538334068740 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1458985538334068740)

I'm sure second graders NEED to learn about the clitoris...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516524923556188175/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516524923556188175/photo/1)

This is the last one...
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516075612817051650 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516075612817051650)

I choose to stop, because I could go on and on, now please do come back and tell me it's not in the age group we're discussing.

And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.

Greetings!

I remember reading about the sex education teacher in Kentucky, Hermano. *Sigh* Yet another depraved, fat white Liberal whore wanting to corrupt our children!

The Daily Wire also talked about it. I think Matt Walsh's program. There have been other as well, like Fox News. Of course, the cock-sucking Liberals have never heard about this epidemic of hit sweeping through our country--because deep down, they approve of it, Hermano. They *like it*. They want more depraved sex, and they want to spread depravity to children, so they are just as fucked up and depraved as the Liberal adults. Look at that fat white Liberal whore. They are all about masturbation, anal sex, weird sex, and pumping it all into children, as young as possible.

Napalm or woodchippers, my friend? ;D

They are all so fucking disgusting. Look how they are corrupting and destroying our society, GeekyBugle!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/why-not-both-animated-gif-7.gif)

Seriously though, imprisonment or execution by legal means after conviction by a jury of citizens in a court where the law is followed is the best answer. Whether that option will still be available when the feces hit the rotary appliance is another question entirely.

If history is any guidepost, even if the lefties do get their totalitarian world as happened in Russia, the alphabet people, pedos and groomers they encouraged during their rise to power will be the first up against the wall once the revolution is complete because their usefulness is destroying the civilization is done and the tyrants don't want them around to disrupt THEIR civilization. To top it off, the alphabet people will also be blamed by the tyrants who used them for toppling the previous civilization and insist that they will protect the good people from these perversions.

If I were one of the alphabet people I'd be jumping back in the closet now, ahead of the inevitable arc of history of whichever side comes out on top. Its not a great time to be an extreme minority when the tyrants need a scapegoat to sell to the majority.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 28, 2022, 11:14:58 AM
There's a suitcase pokin' me in the ribs, there's an elbow in my ear...

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/t-nya-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban-and-thread-ban.896626/

Dawgstar being a humorless fuck, as usual. 'Muh A-Game thread!', lol.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/fuqyu-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll-rule-0.896622/

Burner account. Not surprising.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 28, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
As a general issue with the examples - I don't go searching through Twitter in order to see what the liberals are doing in schools. My knowledge of what liberal and LGBT teachers do is from living in one of the most heavily liberal and LGBT-friendly places in the country, and being closely involved in my son's public school education, as well as training and experience as a K-12 teacher myself (high school science in my case).

I am willing to look over the Twitter links, but if I see a huge difference from my experience, then I will suspect that the links aren't representative of what liberal teachers typically do. There are around 3.5 million public school teachers in the U.S., so a list of 7 examples may well not be representative. I've added numbers to the links quoted below.


So jhkim doesn't like the evidence...

Okay lets see if we can find some on the age range being discused, I hope your second grade is the same age group than it's here.

Disgusting Furry
(1) https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518604990801223681 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518604990801223681)

Since it wouldn't impact her if she wasn't teaching the age group..
(2) https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518213205159563264 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518213205159563264)

More conspiracy theories...
(3) https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1517294110876520448 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1517294110876520448)

No one is teaching 5 year olds to masturbate...
(4) https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516807025308622861 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516807025308622861)

I'm sure it will stay in academia...
(5) https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1458985538334068740 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1458985538334068740)

I'm sure second graders NEED to learn about the clitoris...
(6) https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516524923556188175/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516524923556188175/photo/1)

This is the last one...
(7) https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516075612817051650 (https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1516075612817051650)

I choose to stop, because I could go on and on, now please do come back and tell me it's not in the age group we're discussing.

And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.

To comment specifically:

(1) This appears to be a hoax created by trolls. There is no attribution of the parent complaining, and no attempt to back it up. Here's an article documenting, and it was picked up by news outlets as well: https://mashable.com/article/libs-of-tiktok-furries-school-troll-fake

(2) Given that the teacher is personally transgender and just went through transition, it is necessary to say something to their students. There is nothing explicit in the video. The presentation is very short and is about their own identity. It seems to me that students would get roughly the same information just by interacting with an openly transgender teacher in general. They'd have questions, and even if the teacher didn't directly answer them, they'd ask around or look at how they were referred to, and learn by observation.

(3) I don't have a copy of the books in question, so I'm don't know the details here. From the description, I can tell there are transgender characters, but I don't know the content. You previously said that you were OK with gay characters appearing in books for kids, but from your tone, I gather it is not OK for transgender characters to appear in books for kids. I'd want to read the books to see what I thought.

(4) You're implying that this is something taught to toddlers - but from articles and the archived website, the camp appears to be a private program for teenagers and educators to teach if invited. The video clip is saying that toddlers masturbate - which factually they do - but the sex ed is for teenagers. Here's an article about the program: https://www.100daysinappalachia.com/2019/09/where-sex-education-lacks-in-appalachian-schools-this-kentucky-program-is-attempting-to-fill-in/    It does not specify the age ranges, but it refers to teens and that is who is pictured.

(5) You're implying that this video endorses sexual abuse. However, when I watch it - it is talking about people who feel attraction towards minors, but who are moral and don't act on their impulses. Since calling someone a "pedophile" implies being a sex offender, it suggests the alternate term. I'm grossed out by people who feel such attraction, but it's only people who act that are evil.

(6) I can't seem to get a download of the revised New Jersey sex ed standards. From articles about them, I see that parents can opt out of them either way. You apparently object to learning the proper names of one's own body parts like penis, testicles, vagina, and clitoris. I think most kids will learn that well before 2nd grade. I could see a parent opting out, but knowing those names isn't crazy or abusive.

(7) On the one hand, the teacher isn't clear about the Florida law - and seems to be having a knee-jerk reaction. I don't expect coherence or clear thought from a TikTok video. On the other hand, you yourself just expressed the position that you thought gay characters could appear in stories, but that teachers couldn't explain anything about those gay characters.

Yeah, yeah hashtag not all...  ::)

Really? Children aged 5 NEED to know about the clitoris? Because that's a sexual organ, but you say much worst so whatever.

So you're perfectly okay with normalizing pedophilia...

Furthermore, you asked for examples, I provide them and then you go the No True Scottsman way...

I'm done with your disingenuous ass.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on April 28, 2022, 05:34:17 PM
Yeah, yeah hashtag not all...  ::)

Really? Children aged 5 NEED to know about the clitoris? Because that's a sexual organ, but you say much worst so whatever.

So you're perfectly okay with normalizing pedophilia...

Furthermore, you asked for examples, I provide them and then you go the No True Scottsman way...

I'm done with your disingenuous ass.

People that enable Groomers are just as bad as the Groomers.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on April 28, 2022, 06:09:57 PM
So I turned 40 not to long ago. I was a teacher for a few years before I moved on to a better paying job.

Here's the thing... as a child in the 80s and a teen in the 90s... Do you know what I remember about my Teacher's personal lives?

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

I only knew some of the women were married because their name was "Mrs." But the Teachers didn't talk about their personal lives. They didn't let us know if they were gay or straight, or even if they had children. Obviously as kids we made assumptions, but those assumptions could be wildly off base for all I know. There were rumors about certain teachers, there was a High School English teacher rumored to be a Lesbian, but nobody could confirm one way or another and she didn't say it one way or another.

The point was, the Teachers didn't discuss their personal lives with their students..

As a Teacher myself, I never discussed my personal life with the students.

I could tell you some of my teachers likes and dislikes... and the Students I taught knew I liked Videogames and Anime, but they didn't know if I had kids, if I was married or even if I was dating anyone.

So it's very surprising to me we have these Teachers who feel the need to discuss their personal lives with their students. Who have some bizarre need to have their life validated by children. Outside of telling kids "If someone is touching your private place, please tell us", it shouldn't be controversial at all to leave sex and gender out of the classroom for kids. Just as it shouldn't be controversial for kids to know nothing about a Teacher's homelife.

It's so fucking weird to me, all these Teachers who need kids to know every detail about who they fuck, if they're married and if they think Gender is a thing. For fuck sake, have some professionalism!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 28, 2022, 06:36:36 PM
So I turned 40 not to long ago. I was a teacher for a few years before I moved on to a better paying job.

Here's the thing... as a child in the 80s and a teen in the 90s... Do you know what I remember about my Teacher's personal lives?

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

I only knew some of the women were married because their name was "Mrs." But the Teachers didn't talk about their personal lives. They didn't let us know if they were gay or straight, or even if they had children. Obviously as kids we made assumptions, but those assumptions could be wildly off base for all I know. There were rumors about certain teachers, there was a High School English teacher rumored to be a Lesbian, but nobody could confirm one way or another and she didn't say it one way or another.

The point was, the Teachers didn't discuss their personal lives with their students..

As a Teacher myself, I never discussed my personal life with the students.

I could tell you some of my teachers likes and dislikes... and the Students I taught knew I liked Videogames and Anime, but they didn't know if I had kids, if I was married or even if I was dating anyone.

So it's very surprising to me we have these Teachers who feel the need to discuss their personal lives with their students. Who have some bizarre need to have their life validated by children. Outside of telling kids "If someone is touching your private place, please tell us", it shouldn't be controversial at all to leave sex and gender out of the classroom for kids. Just as it shouldn't be controversial for kids to know nothing about a Teacher's homelife.

It's so fucking weird to me, all these Teachers who need kids to know every detail about who they fuck, if they're married and if they think Gender is a thing. For fuck sake, have some professionalism!

And leave the children alone!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 28, 2022, 06:37:04 PM
Yeah, yeah hashtag not all...  ::)

Really? Children aged 5 NEED to know about the clitoris? Because that's a sexual organ, but you say much worst so whatever.

So you're perfectly okay with normalizing pedophilia...

Furthermore, you asked for examples, I provide them and then you go the No True Scottsman way...

I'm done with your disingenuous ass.

People that enable Groomers are just as bad as the Groomers.

Or worst since they provide cover.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 28, 2022, 06:46:17 PM
They totally are not trying to groom children into becoming trans or gays...

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 28, 2022, 07:01:32 PM
It never happens, never ever...

https://twitter.com/reddit_lies/status/1519790358779019265/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/reddit_lies/status/1519790358779019265/photo/1)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 28, 2022, 07:06:49 PM
Outside of telling kids "If someone is touching your private place, please tell us", it shouldn't be controversial at all to leave sex and gender out of the classroom for kids. Just as it shouldn't be controversial for kids to know nothing about a Teacher's homelife.

It's so fucking weird to me, all these Teachers who need kids to know every detail about who they fuck, if they're married and if they think Gender is a thing. For fuck sake, have some professionalism!

Is this about Geeky's example #2 of a transgender teacher who transitioned while teaching? The only personal detail covered was what gender they were. The *gender* of a teacher has never been considered a private detail. It's usually considered required information, in fact.

For that matter, whether someone is married or not also has never been considered part of private home life - given that it's often a part of someone's name. If an elementary school teacher got married while teaching, there's a fair chance that she'd change her prefix and/or last name -- and if she taught K-3, she'd probably end up explaining something to kids about why her name changed.

When I went to school, for example, I knew that my teachers Mr. Szabo and Mrs. Szabo were married. I don't feel that knowing that was unprofessional. It's part of public life - which is why visible wedding rings are a tradition. I also knew that the principal's kid was Jerry in 5th grade.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on April 28, 2022, 10:59:25 PM
Here's the thing... as a child in the 80s and a teen in the 90s... Do you know what I remember about my Teacher's personal lives?

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

I only knew some of the women were married because their name was "Mrs." But the Teachers didn't talk about their personal lives. They didn't let us know if they were gay or straight, or even if they had children. Obviously as kids we made assumptions, but those assumptions could be wildly off base for all I know. There were rumors about certain teachers, there was a High School English teacher rumored to be a Lesbian, but nobody could confirm one way or another and she didn't say it one way or another.

The point was, the Teachers didn't discuss their personal lives with their students..
100% correct.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on April 28, 2022, 11:17:21 PM
Outside of telling kids "If someone is touching your private place, please tell us", it shouldn't be controversial at all to leave sex and gender out of the classroom for kids. Just as it shouldn't be controversial for kids to know nothing about a Teacher's homelife.

It's so fucking weird to me, all these Teachers who need kids to know every detail about who they fuck, if they're married and if they think Gender is a thing. For fuck sake, have some professionalism!

Is this about Geeky's example #2 of a transgender teacher who transitioned while teaching? The only personal detail covered was what gender they were. The *gender* of a teacher has never been considered a private detail. It's usually considered required information, in fact.

For that matter, whether someone is married or not also has never been considered part of private home life - given that it's often a part of someone's name. If an elementary school teacher got married while teaching, there's a fair chance that she'd change her prefix and/or last name -- and if she taught K-3, she'd probably end up explaining something to kids about why her name changed.

When I went to school, for example, I knew that my teachers Mr. Szabo and Mrs. Szabo were married. I don't feel that knowing that was unprofessional. It's part of public life - which is why visible wedding rings are a tradition. I also knew that the principal's kid was Jerry in 5th grade.

What you're doing is begging the question, proving the exception to the rule, and being contrary to be contrary.

I already mentioned, the name "Mrs." implied a female teacher was married. Wedding rings did too.
The point is, however, that Teachers are supposed to maintain a level of boundaries and profesionalism. I also had two teachers who were married, and I also had a teacher with a kid at the school. But again, they were the exception, not the rule.

A teacher shouldn't be volunteering information about their personal lives to the class. You're being pendantic (Which is one of your character traits Jhkim you're like the most pendantic person on this site and never, ever let an oppertunity to make a bad faith or 'whatbout' argument go).

Teachers are not supposed to let students into their personal lives. If things happen that volunteer that information (Wedding rings, another teacher their married to, a child at the school) then so be it... But one of the best examples I can point to, was a gay Kindergarten teacher being upset because he said "If I went Kayaking with my husband and my students asked what I did over the weekend, am I supposed to lie?" The answer is...

Yes.. or say they went Kayaking. You don't need to specify you did it with your spouse.

Or even worse I had a Music teacher argue with me that to demonstrate line dancing they used their family as examples, "I'm here, my wife is here, my brother in law is here" my response is, "Why the fuck are you using you and your family as examples instead of the students? It should be Jimmy you'd be here, Antwon you here, Jamie here, Alice you'd be here" that's much more engaging to the students while not volunteering your personal life.

This isn't difficult, it shouldn't be difficult. Teachers should not be volunteering their personal lives OR their personal politics to students for that matter. Hell I couldn't tell you what political party any of my teachers belonged to either.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 28, 2022, 11:40:22 PM
Outside of telling kids "If someone is touching your private place, please tell us", it shouldn't be controversial at all to leave sex and gender out of the classroom for kids. Just as it shouldn't be controversial for kids to know nothing about a Teacher's homelife.

It's so fucking weird to me, all these Teachers who need kids to know every detail about who they fuck, if they're married and if they think Gender is a thing. For fuck sake, have some professionalism!

Is this about Geeky's example #2 of a transgender teacher who transitioned while teaching? The only personal detail covered was what gender they were. The *gender* of a teacher has never been considered a private detail. It's usually considered required information, in fact.

For that matter, whether someone is married or not also has never been considered part of private home life - given that it's often a part of someone's name. If an elementary school teacher got married while teaching, there's a fair chance that she'd change her prefix and/or last name -- and if she taught K-3, she'd probably end up explaining something to kids about why her name changed.

When I went to school, for example, I knew that my teachers Mr. Szabo and Mrs. Szabo were married. I don't feel that knowing that was unprofessional. It's part of public life - which is why visible wedding rings are a tradition. I also knew that the principal's kid was Jerry in 5th grade.

What you're doing is begging the question, proving the exception to the rule, and being contrary to be contrary.

I already mentioned, the name "Mrs." implied a female teacher was married. Wedding rings did too.
The point is, however, that Teachers are supposed to maintain a level of boundaries and profesionalism. I also had two teachers who were married, and I also had a teacher with a kid at the school. But again, they were the exception, not the rule.

A teacher shouldn't be volunteering information about their personal lives to the class. You're being pendantic (Which is one of your character traits Jhkim you're like the most pendantic person on this site and never, ever let an oppertunity to make a bad faith or 'whatbout' argument go).

Teachers are not supposed to let students into their personal lives. If things happen that volunteer that information (Wedding rings, another teacher their married to, a child at the school) then so be it... But one of the best examples I can point to, was a gay Kindergarten teacher being upset because he said "If I went Kayaking with my husband and my students asked what I did over the weekend, am I supposed to lie?" The answer is...

Yes.. or say they went Kayaking. You don't need to specify you did it with your spouse.

Or even worse I had a Music teacher argue with me that to demonstrate line dancing they used their family as examples, "I'm here, my wife is here, my brother in law is here" my response is, "Why the fuck are you using you and your family as examples instead of the students? It should be Jimmy you'd be here, Antwon you here, Jamie here, Alice you'd be here" that's much more engaging to the students while not volunteering your personal life.

This isn't difficult, it shouldn't be difficult. Teachers should not be volunteering their personal lives OR their personal politics to students for that matter. Hell I couldn't tell you what political party any of my teachers belonged to either.

He's not being contrarian, he loooooooooves the grooming and wants it to continue.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 28, 2022, 11:46:51 PM
And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.
You can reason with actual liberals.  They are still responsive to logic and empirical data.
You cannot reason with leftists.  Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.
Leftists are cultural/race/gender/intersectional Marxists who want a revolution to bring about the dictatorship of the anti-racists.
Leftists believe anything that undermines western liberalism and causes chaos is great. 
TBP and other woke sites practice repressive tolerance... that which does not fall within the leftist ideology cannot be tolerated and must be suppressed.

I don't agree with those distinctions.

Leftists, to me, are economic left-wing people. Socialists. Marxists.

Progressives are cultural/race/gender/intersectional justice people.

They are not the same groups. Bernie Sanders doesn't agree with most of those culture claims but is firmly a leftist socialist, for example. They CAN overlap, but they're not interchangeable terms and they don't always agree. Sometimes they even hate each other.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 29, 2022, 02:03:49 AM
And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.
You can reason with actual liberals.  They are still responsive to logic and empirical data.
You cannot reason with leftists.  Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.
Leftists are cultural/race/gender/intersectional Marxists who want a revolution to bring about the dictatorship of the anti-racists.
Leftists believe anything that undermines western liberalism and causes chaos is great. 
TBP and other woke sites practice repressive tolerance... that which does not fall within the leftist ideology cannot be tolerated and must be suppressed.

I don't agree with those distinctions.

Leftists, to me, are economic left-wing people. Socialists. Marxists.

Progressives are cultural/race/gender/intersectional justice people.

They are not the same groups. Bernie Sanders doesn't agree with most of those culture claims but is firmly a leftist socialist, for example. They CAN overlap, but they're not interchangeable terms and they don't always agree. Sometimes they even hate each other.

Please don't be a dumbass and make me go find Bernie parroting the woke talking points...

Edited to add:
Since you can't help yourself I'm pre-emptively proving you're a dumbass:

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/ (https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/)
https://berniesanders.com/issues/lgbtq-equality/ (https://berniesanders.com/issues/lgbtq-equality/)
Would you say that the Jacobin Magazine is left?
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/01/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-transgender-rights-health-care (https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/01/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-transgender-rights-health-care)

The Left was infected, co-opted and is now nothing but woke.

And you're a dumbass.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on April 29, 2022, 04:46:43 AM
Hey,  all you rightards talking about murdering  liberals?  Check this out:


https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/1/13/2074414/-Florida-Republican-is-shot-dead-after-allegedly-ramming-car-and-shooting-at-driver

Basically a trump lover saw that Kyle shittenhouse got away with murder after looking for trouble with liberals, do he decided to stage an accident as an excuse to start trouble with a liberal and murder him.

The result was a bad trump lover being turned into a good trump lover.

I laughed do dard at this I had tears rolling down my cheeks...

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 29, 2022, 05:53:39 AM
And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.
You can reason with actual liberals.  They are still responsive to logic and empirical data.
You cannot reason with leftists.  Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.
Leftists are cultural/race/gender/intersectional Marxists who want a revolution to bring about the dictatorship of the anti-racists.
Leftists believe anything that undermines western liberalism and causes chaos is great. 
TBP and other woke sites practice repressive tolerance... that which does not fall within the leftist ideology cannot be tolerated and must be suppressed.

I don't agree with those distinctions.

Leftists, to me, are economic left-wing people. Socialists. Marxists.

Progressives are cultural/race/gender/intersectional justice people.

And that is why you are fucked in the head. You would rather miscommunicate by creating personal distinctions based on cloud cuckoo land logic than try to use commonly accepted word definitions.

They are not the same groups. Bernie Sanders doesn't agree with most of those culture claims but is firmly a leftist socialist, for example. They CAN overlap, but they're not interchangeable terms and they don't always agree. Sometimes they even hate each other.

Of course! That is why he starts out strong in every election and then capitulate to the Democrat Party and bows out like a good little socialist tool so that he may count his remaining campaign contributions at home in one of his three mansions.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 29, 2022, 06:28:12 AM
And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.
You can reason with actual liberals.  They are still responsive to logic and empirical data.
You cannot reason with leftists.  Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.
Leftists are cultural/race/gender/intersectional Marxists who want a revolution to bring about the dictatorship of the anti-racists.
Leftists believe anything that undermines western liberalism and causes chaos is great. 
TBP and other woke sites practice repressive tolerance... that which does not fall within the leftist ideology cannot be tolerated and must be suppressed.

I don't agree with those distinctions.

Leftists, to me, are economic left-wing people. Socialists. Marxists.

Progressives are cultural/race/gender/intersectional justice people.

And that is why you are fucked in the head. You would rather miscommunicate by creating personal distinctions based on cloud cuckoo land logic than try to use commonly accepted word definitions.

They are not the same groups. Bernie Sanders doesn't agree with most of those culture claims but is firmly a leftist socialist, for example. They CAN overlap, but they're not interchangeable terms and they don't always agree. Sometimes they even hate each other.

Of course! That is why he starts out strong in every election and then capitulate to the Democrat Party and bows out like a good little socialist tool so that he may count his remaining campaign contributions at home in one of his three mansions.

Greetings!

*Laughing* How does that expression go, Jeff? "A Distinction without a Difference"? I think that's it. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 29, 2022, 07:02:38 AM
Hey,  all you rightards talking about murdering  liberals?  Check this out:


https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/1/13/2074414/-Florida-Republican-is-shot-dead-after-allegedly-ramming-car-and-shooting-at-driver

Basically a trump lover saw that Kyle shittenhouse got away with murder after looking for trouble with liberals, do he decided to stage an accident as an excuse to start trouble with a liberal and murder him.

The result was a bad trump lover being turned into a good trump lover.

I laughed do dard at this I had tears rolling down my cheeks...
> linking to DailyKos

LOL.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on April 29, 2022, 07:05:07 AM
Hey,  all you rightards talking about murdering  liberals?  Check this out:


https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/1/13/2074414/-Florida-Republican-is-shot-dead-after-allegedly-ramming-car-and-shooting-at-driver

Basically a trump lover saw that Kyle shittenhouse got away with murder after looking for trouble with liberals, do he decided to stage an accident as an excuse to start trouble with a liberal and murder him.

The result was a bad trump lover being turned into a good trump lover.

I laughed do dard at this I had tears rolling down my cheeks...
> linking to DailyKos

LOL.

You don't think that he would get his "news" from anywhere else, do you?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 29, 2022, 07:19:39 AM
Hey,  all you rightards talking about murdering  liberals?  Check this out:


https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/1/13/2074414/-Florida-Republican-is-shot-dead-after-allegedly-ramming-car-and-shooting-at-driver

Basically a trump lover saw that Kyle shittenhouse got away with murder after looking for trouble with liberals, do he decided to stage an accident as an excuse to start trouble with a liberal and murder him.

The result was a bad trump lover being turned into a good trump lover.

I laughed do dard at this I had tears rolling down my cheeks...

  The part you might be missing, is in Florida and both being gun owners...they both could be trump supporters and just had a friendly gun fight.  You have zero proof the other guy was liberal.  However, if you feel things get violent and liberals are going to be killing all the trumptards, good luck with that one.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 29, 2022, 10:31:57 AM
And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.
You can reason with actual liberals.  They are still responsive to logic and empirical data.
You cannot reason with leftists.  Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.
Leftists are cultural/race/gender/intersectional Marxists who want a revolution to bring about the dictatorship of the anti-racists.
Leftists believe anything that undermines western liberalism and causes chaos is great. 
TBP and other woke sites practice repressive tolerance... that which does not fall within the leftist ideology cannot be tolerated and must be suppressed.

I don't agree with those distinctions.

Leftists, to me, are economic left-wing people. Socialists. Marxists.

Progressives are cultural/race/gender/intersectional justice people.

They are not the same groups. Bernie Sanders doesn't agree with most of those culture claims but is firmly a leftist socialist, for example. They CAN overlap, but they're not interchangeable terms and they don't always agree. Sometimes they even hate each other.

Please don't be a dumbass and make me go find Bernie parroting the woke talking points...

Edited to add:
Since you can't help yourself I'm pre-emptively proving you're a dumbass:

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/ (https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/)
https://berniesanders.com/issues/lgbtq-equality/ (https://berniesanders.com/issues/lgbtq-equality/)
Would you say that the Jacobin Magazine is left?
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/01/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-transgender-rights-health-care (https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/01/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-transgender-rights-health-care)

The Left was infected, co-opted and is now nothing but woke.

And you're a dumbass.

Since you didn't pay attention to WHY Bernie parroted that stuff, I will inform you. Bernie said something along the lines that we don't need to worry about race and those type issues, because once you solve for the class issues the rest of them benefit just the same. [Edit: I think technically what he said was, "racial inequality is a symptom — but economic inequality is the disease."]

The progressives blew their fucking minds in anger at Bernie and his followers, for several months.

So, as an olive leaf, he threw out those platitudes about the culture stuff. Which the progressives knew he didn't believe, his followers knew he didn't believe, and yet it made peace in the party when he was trying to gain the nomination.

Had you been paying attention at the time, you'd have known all that. It wasn't hidden. It was a rather public dispute which went on for a while. See for example this. (https://www.vox.com/2015/7/20/9001639/bernie-sanders-black-lives-matter)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 29, 2022, 10:34:20 AM
And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.
You can reason with actual liberals.  They are still responsive to logic and empirical data.
You cannot reason with leftists.  Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.
Leftists are cultural/race/gender/intersectional Marxists who want a revolution to bring about the dictatorship of the anti-racists.
Leftists believe anything that undermines western liberalism and causes chaos is great. 
TBP and other woke sites practice repressive tolerance... that which does not fall within the leftist ideology cannot be tolerated and must be suppressed.

I don't agree with those distinctions.

Leftists, to me, are economic left-wing people. Socialists. Marxists.

Progressives are cultural/race/gender/intersectional justice people.

And that is why you are fucked in the head. You would rather miscommunicate by creating personal distinctions based on cloud cuckoo land logic than try to use commonly accepted word definitions.

They are not the same groups. Bernie Sanders doesn't agree with most of those culture claims but is firmly a leftist socialist, for example. They CAN overlap, but they're not interchangeable terms and they don't always agree. Sometimes they even hate each other.

Of course! That is why he starts out strong in every election and then capitulate to the Democrat Party and bows out like a good little socialist tool so that he may count his remaining campaign contributions at home in one of his three mansions.

I agree with that last part.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 29, 2022, 12:37:57 PM
Teachers are not supposed to let students into their personal lives. If things happen that volunteer that information (Wedding rings, another teacher their married to, a child at the school) then so be it... But one of the best examples I can point to, was a gay Kindergarten teacher being upset because he said "If I went Kayaking with my husband and my students asked what I did over the weekend, am I supposed to lie?" The answer is...

Yes.. or say they went Kayaking. You don't need to specify you did it with your spouse.

Or even worse I had a Music teacher argue with me that to demonstrate line dancing they used their family as examples, "I'm here, my wife is here, my brother in law is here" my response is, "Why the fuck are you using you and your family as examples instead of the students? It should be Jimmy you'd be here, Antwon you here, Jamie here, Alice you'd be here" that's much more engaging to the students while not volunteering your personal life.

In your first example, I think the more personal stuff is the kayaking. As a high school teacher, I don't think I ever talked with students what I did on the weekend, but I'm pretty sure that at some point I mentioned that I was married or something about my family.

Marriage has traditionally been very public. We change names and/or wear visible wedding rings not as an accidental slip of secrets - but because people are *supposed* to know if two people are married. It was never considered inappropriate for young kids to know about marriage. It's traditional for young kids to be at a wedding, such as the ring bearer. There are public announcements of a wedding, and in a small community, the whole village would know about a wedding - including kids.

Yes, teachers shouldn't overshare - but a teacher just mentioning the existence of a husband or kids isn't oversharing. I've seen teachers with a picture of their family on their desk, along with other personalizations about their interests like their favorite sports team. I don't think those are unprofessional. I can't picture it being a problem if my kindergarten teacher back in the 1970s mentioned that she had a husband if asked.

I've gone to my student's sports games, and I've seen other teachers there - sometimes with their families. If a teacher goes to a school event like a sports game with her husband and kids, that's generally considered family-friendly and community-building - not breaking a line.

---

In your second example, yes, that seems weird and oversharing to specify extended family as part of instruction when it wasn't necessary. However, that doesn't mean that teachers should never mention family ever. As a science teacher, I've sometimes used anecdotes from my life to illustrate the practicality and reality of science, rather than it being just something for textbooks and laboratories. For example, when I taught kids about electrical safety I described an example from my home when I got a shock.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on April 29, 2022, 12:55:09 PM
I remember my teachers (and principals) having a few family photos on their desks, and I also remember my kids' teachers having family photos as screen savers on their monitors when going in for conferences. None of these were graphic or lewd, and yes, one of my kids' teachers had a photo of his gay partner in the early 2000s. It wasn't a secret even if there was no "my dick goes here" caption on the pic.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on April 29, 2022, 01:25:53 PM
As a followup to GeekyBugle -

Really? Children aged 5 NEED to know about the clitoris? Because that's a sexual organ, but you say much worst so whatever.

So you're perfectly okay with normalizing pedophilia...

Furthermore, you asked for examples, I provide them and then you go the No True Scottsman way...

Thank you for providing further examples. I was not attempting to deny the existence of them, but rather trying to explain what I found after looking at them, to see where our positions differ.

I'll reiterate again about my position. There are 3.5 million public school teachers in the U.S. There have been hundreds of cases of criminal prosecution of teachers for sexual abuse, and far more examples of teachers who have had bad and/or inappropriate instruction. I believe that we need a higher standard for teachers - but that would mean greater incentives to get people into teaching. I also support trying to uncover and prosecute teachers who engage in sexual abuse, including new laws to support that. I think the best strategy for this is encouraging kids to tell the authorities about when abuse happens.

If a student acts in ways that seem gay or transgender, the teacher should make sure they aren't bullied or put down for it - and continue to treat the student with equal respect, but they should absolutely not try to tell the student what they are or encourage the behavior. Helping the student deal with their feelings and identity is for parents and possibly a school psychologist. I think the vast majority of teachers would agree with this. Assuming the allegations are true, I think the middle school teachers who intervened with Jessica Konen's kid were in the wrong.

That said, I believe there is still a lot of flatly anti-LGBT sentiment - and that kids are still likely to be bullied or put down for such behavior. When I was growing up, kids would be virtually guaranteed beaten for being fags or queer - and often put in jail if they were adults. Those sentiments have not disappeared. I think chillingly of the Pennsylvania woman who murdered her two transgender children and was sentenced last year.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 29, 2022, 01:39:06 PM
And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.
You can reason with actual liberals.  They are still responsive to logic and empirical data.
You cannot reason with leftists.  Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.
Leftists are cultural/race/gender/intersectional Marxists who want a revolution to bring about the dictatorship of the anti-racists.
Leftists believe anything that undermines western liberalism and causes chaos is great. 
TBP and other woke sites practice repressive tolerance... that which does not fall within the leftist ideology cannot be tolerated and must be suppressed.

I don't agree with those distinctions.

Leftists, to me, are economic left-wing people. Socialists. Marxists.

Progressives are cultural/race/gender/intersectional justice people.

They are not the same groups. Bernie Sanders doesn't agree with most of those culture claims but is firmly a leftist socialist, for example. They CAN overlap, but they're not interchangeable terms and they don't always agree. Sometimes they even hate each other.

Please don't be a dumbass and make me go find Bernie parroting the woke talking points...

Edited to add:
Since you can't help yourself I'm pre-emptively proving you're a dumbass:

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/ (https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/)
https://berniesanders.com/issues/lgbtq-equality/ (https://berniesanders.com/issues/lgbtq-equality/)
Would you say that the Jacobin Magazine is left?
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/01/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-transgender-rights-health-care (https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/01/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-transgender-rights-health-care)

The Left was infected, co-opted and is now nothing but woke.

And you're a dumbass.

Since you didn't pay attention to WHY Bernie parroted that stuff, I will inform you. Bernie said something along the lines that we don't need to worry about race and those type issues, because once you solve for the class issues the rest of them benefit just the same. [Edit: I think technically what he said was, "racial inequality is a symptom — but economic inequality is the disease."]

The progressives blew their fucking minds in anger at Bernie and his followers, for several months.

So, as an olive leaf, he threw out those platitudes about the culture stuff. Which the progressives knew he didn't believe, his followers knew he didn't believe, and yet it made peace in the party when he was trying to gain the nomination.

Had you been paying attention at the time, you'd have known all that. It wasn't hidden. It was a rather public dispute which went on for a while. See for example this. (https://www.vox.com/2015/7/20/9001639/bernie-sanders-black-lives-matter)

Lets grant you ALL of that:

So Bernie has no principles and has so few organic support he has to take his talking points from the woke. Therefore the woke have co-opted the left. And I'm right.

But you left one thing out: The Jacobin Magazine, always touted as THE socialist magazine per excellence. They also are parroting the woke talking points. And I'm right again.

Which means you're what?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 29, 2022, 01:47:27 PM
As a followup to GeekyBugle -

Really? Children aged 5 NEED to know about the clitoris? Because that's a sexual organ, but you say much worst so whatever.

So you're perfectly okay with normalizing pedophilia...

Furthermore, you asked for examples, I provide them and then you go the No True Scottsman way...

Thank you for providing further examples. I was not attempting to deny the existence of them, but rather trying to explain what I found after looking at them, to see where our positions differ.

I'll reiterate again about my position. There are 3.5 million public school teachers in the U.S. There have been hundreds of cases of criminal prosecution of teachers for sexual abuse, and far more examples of teachers who have had bad and/or inappropriate instruction. I believe that we need a higher standard for teachers - but that would mean greater incentives to get people into teaching. I also support trying to uncover and prosecute teachers who engage in sexual abuse, including new laws to support that. I think the best strategy for this is encouraging kids to tell the authorities about when abuse happens.

If a student acts in ways that seem gay or transgender, the teacher should make sure they aren't bullied or put down for it - and continue to treat the student with equal respect, but they should absolutely not try to tell the student what they are or encourage the behavior. Helping the student deal with their feelings and identity is for parents and possibly a school psychologist. I think the vast majority of teachers would agree with this. Assuming the allegations are true, I think the middle school teachers who intervened with Jessica Konen's kid were in the wrong.

That said, I believe there is still a lot of flatly anti-LGBT sentiment - and that kids are still likely to be bullied or put down for such behavior. When I was growing up, kids would be virtually guaranteed beaten for being fags or queer - and often put in jail if they were adults. Those sentiments have not disappeared. I think chillingly of the Pennsylvania woman who murdered her two transgender children and was sentenced last year.

You accuse others of picking the nuts while clamoring the majority isn't nuts.

So... Why is it so easy to collect a huge ammount of nuts?

Then you proceed to point to ONE nut and claim there's lots of those... Trump with a pride flag, a gay man speaking in his event...

YOU are conflating the activists and groomers with the vast majority of LGBT people, I haven't seen ANYONE on my side of the discussion do so here... Neither have I seen it elsewhere. I'm sure there must be some but it can't be as prevalent as you want to believe.

We were warning people for years about the nuts, saying it would cause a backlash and it would hurt innocent people. YOU must have seen me writting that in this forums. Well congratulations, you managed to bury your heads in the sand long enough for the nuts to rule the assilum and the backlash is here.

I'm not sorry about not trusting your assesment (some may even call it a slippery slope fallacy) of what will happen, because you haven't been very good at that game. So show me those results you predict IF they ever materialize and we'll talk about it.

In the meantime... Keep your hands off the children!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 29, 2022, 02:41:56 PM
While battlemaster was faffing off here, crying about how righties oppress lefties, he got oppressed by TBP!

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/batttlemaster-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban-and-thread-ban.896691/

(laughs hysterically)

Battlemaster, you ignorant slut.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 29, 2022, 03:01:48 PM
While battlemaster was faffing off here, crying about how righties oppress lefties, he got oppressed by TBP!

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/batttlemaster-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban-and-thread-ban.896691/

(laughs hysterically)

Battlemaster, you ignorant slut.

Greetings!

OHHH!!! The sweet Tyranny! *Laughing* Dawgstar used him like a fucking Fleshlight P-sleeve.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 29, 2022, 03:14:12 PM
  Weird scenario.  He got banned for more or less creating a hypothetical that he and no one on that forum has any power to enact (getting a foreign government to spy on US citizens on US soil) so I am not sure how he is suggesting an illegal activity.   Now, his hypothetical is batshit crazy as is his belief in "fascists", but batshit crazy does not get you banned there.  I am certain had he suggested a different group of people to get spied on he would have been permabanned.   So I am not sure what is going on there,  I think he should stick to posting about Rpgs here, because he seems to actually play them and his brand of rhetoric might attract a flame to his moth.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 29, 2022, 04:12:43 PM
While battlemaster was faffing off here, crying about how righties oppress lefties, he got oppressed by TBP!

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/batttlemaster-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban-and-thread-ban.896691/

(laughs hysterically)

Battlemaster, you ignorant slut.

sweet, sweet karma. He won't learn shit tho, he'll kiss the boot and ask for more pegging.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 29, 2022, 05:03:49 PM
And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.
You can reason with actual liberals.  They are still responsive to logic and empirical data.
You cannot reason with leftists.  Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.
Leftists are cultural/race/gender/intersectional Marxists who want a revolution to bring about the dictatorship of the anti-racists.
Leftists believe anything that undermines western liberalism and causes chaos is great. 
TBP and other woke sites practice repressive tolerance... that which does not fall within the leftist ideology cannot be tolerated and must be suppressed.

I don't agree with those distinctions.

Leftists, to me, are economic left-wing people. Socialists. Marxists.

Progressives are cultural/race/gender/intersectional justice people.

They are not the same groups. Bernie Sanders doesn't agree with most of those culture claims but is firmly a leftist socialist, for example. They CAN overlap, but they're not interchangeable terms and they don't always agree. Sometimes they even hate each other.

Please don't be a dumbass and make me go find Bernie parroting the woke talking points...

Edited to add:
Since you can't help yourself I'm pre-emptively proving you're a dumbass:

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/ (https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/)
https://berniesanders.com/issues/lgbtq-equality/ (https://berniesanders.com/issues/lgbtq-equality/)
Would you say that the Jacobin Magazine is left?
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/01/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-transgender-rights-health-care (https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/01/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-transgender-rights-health-care)

The Left was infected, co-opted and is now nothing but woke.

And you're a dumbass.

Since you didn't pay attention to WHY Bernie parroted that stuff, I will inform you. Bernie said something along the lines that we don't need to worry about race and those type issues, because once you solve for the class issues the rest of them benefit just the same. [Edit: I think technically what he said was, "racial inequality is a symptom — but economic inequality is the disease."]

The progressives blew their fucking minds in anger at Bernie and his followers, for several months.

So, as an olive leaf, he threw out those platitudes about the culture stuff. Which the progressives knew he didn't believe, his followers knew he didn't believe, and yet it made peace in the party when he was trying to gain the nomination.

Had you been paying attention at the time, you'd have known all that. It wasn't hidden. It was a rather public dispute which went on for a while. See for example this. (https://www.vox.com/2015/7/20/9001639/bernie-sanders-black-lives-matter)

Lets grant you ALL of that:

So Bernie has no principles and has so few organic support he has to take his talking points from the woke. Therefore the woke have co-opted the left. And I'm right.

But you left one thing out: The Jacobin Magazine, always touted as THE socialist magazine per excellence. They also are parroting the woke talking points. And I'm right again.

Which means you're what?

Naw man the Progressives had nobody. Bernie had WAY more support than they did. Progs didn't co-opt Bernie, he co-opted them. It was him vs Clinton at the time, and he gained Prog voters with those platitudes they knew he didn't mean. NOBODY thought he'd actually live up to any of that if he won the election. They planned to use it to pressure him if he did win.

I don't know much about the Jacobin Mag but I don't think what they think is the end-all be-all of socialism vs progressivism in America.

Again, you CAN be both a progressive and a leftist and some are both. But they're not synonyms. You can also be a Leftist and anti-progressive (I know - I have a close relative who is both a Marxist and deeply anti-woke).

And since you're doing this juvenile "I win" bullshit of an internet warrior, let's spell it out. I am saying you CAN be both but they're not the same. You're saying they're identical. So for me to win all I have to do is show ONE person who is one but not the other to prove they're not identical. You'd have to show everyone is both to win. So cut the crap man. You're not "winning" this argument with your present line of attack.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 29, 2022, 05:07:50 PM
  Weird scenario.  He got banned for more or less creating a hypothetical that he and no one on that forum has any power to enact (getting a foreign government to spy on US citizens on US soil) so I am not sure how he is suggesting an illegal activity.   Now, his hypothetical is batshit crazy as is his belief in "fascists", but batshit crazy does not get you banned there.  I am certain had he suggested a different group of people to get spied on he would have been permabanned.   So I am not sure what is going on there,  I think he should stick to posting about Rpgs here, because he seems to actually play them and his brand of rhetoric might attract a flame to his moth.

Apparently the moderators of The Big Purple think the CIA and/or MI.6 read The Big Purple and are going to take ideas from there on what to do? Normally the "don't suggest illegal stuff" involves encouraging piracy, or encouraging doxing, or other things which your audience could actually do. Not "I wish the CIA/MI.6 would do X" type stuff.

But then, there is no logic to their moderation.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 29, 2022, 05:15:49 PM
And since you "liberals" can't stop yourselves there's no middle ground anymore. Get your hands of other people's childrens minds.
You can reason with actual liberals.  They are still responsive to logic and empirical data.
You cannot reason with leftists.  Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.
Leftists are cultural/race/gender/intersectional Marxists who want a revolution to bring about the dictatorship of the anti-racists.
Leftists believe anything that undermines western liberalism and causes chaos is great. 
TBP and other woke sites practice repressive tolerance... that which does not fall within the leftist ideology cannot be tolerated and must be suppressed.

I don't agree with those distinctions.

Leftists, to me, are economic left-wing people. Socialists. Marxists.

Progressives are cultural/race/gender/intersectional justice people.

They are not the same groups. Bernie Sanders doesn't agree with most of those culture claims but is firmly a leftist socialist, for example. They CAN overlap, but they're not interchangeable terms and they don't always agree. Sometimes they even hate each other.

Please don't be a dumbass and make me go find Bernie parroting the woke talking points...

Edited to add:
Since you can't help yourself I'm pre-emptively proving you're a dumbass:

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/ (https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/)
https://berniesanders.com/issues/lgbtq-equality/ (https://berniesanders.com/issues/lgbtq-equality/)
Would you say that the Jacobin Magazine is left?
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/01/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-transgender-rights-health-care (https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/01/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-transgender-rights-health-care)

The Left was infected, co-opted and is now nothing but woke.

And you're a dumbass.

Since you didn't pay attention to WHY Bernie parroted that stuff, I will inform you. Bernie said something along the lines that we don't need to worry about race and those type issues, because once you solve for the class issues the rest of them benefit just the same. [Edit: I think technically what he said was, "racial inequality is a symptom — but economic inequality is the disease."]

The progressives blew their fucking minds in anger at Bernie and his followers, for several months.

So, as an olive leaf, he threw out those platitudes about the culture stuff. Which the progressives knew he didn't believe, his followers knew he didn't believe, and yet it made peace in the party when he was trying to gain the nomination.

Had you been paying attention at the time, you'd have known all that. It wasn't hidden. It was a rather public dispute which went on for a while. See for example this. (https://www.vox.com/2015/7/20/9001639/bernie-sanders-black-lives-matter)

Lets grant you ALL of that:

So Bernie has no principles and has so few organic support he has to take his talking points from the woke. Therefore the woke have co-opted the left. And I'm right.

But you left one thing out: The Jacobin Magazine, always touted as THE socialist magazine per excellence. They also are parroting the woke talking points. And I'm right again.

Which means you're what?

Naw man the Progressives had nobody. Bernie had WAY more support than they did. Progs didn't co-opt Bernie, he co-opted them. It was him vs Clinton at the time, and he gained Prog voters with those platitudes they knew he didn't mean. NOBODY thought he'd actually live up to any of that if he won the election. They planned to use it to pressure him if he did win.

I don't know much about the Jacobin Mag but I don't think what they think is the end-all be-all of socialism vs progressivism in America.

Again, you CAN be both a progressive and a leftist and some are both. But they're not synonyms. You can also be a Leftist and anti-progressive (I know - I have a close relative who is both a Marxist and deeply anti-woke).

And since you're doing this juvenile "I win" bullshit of an internet warrior, let's spell it out. I am saying you CAN be both but they're not the same. You're saying they're identical. So for me to win all I have to do is show ONE person who is one but not the other to prove they're not identical. You'd have to show everyone is both to win. So cut the crap man. You're not "winning" this argument with your present line of attack.

You seriously think ONE lone fucker who nobody listens to, who is demonized and called Alt-Right proves The Left =/= Woke?

LOL, no, the woke are in control, you think Bernie co-opted them, you couldn't be more wrong, he's not calling the shots, they have their authoritarian fist up his ass and make him talk like a pupet (not that Bernie is less authoritarian).

You can know this is true by paying attention to WHO is parroting what talking points and who postrates in front of who.

Bernie postrates his sorry ass infront of some nobodies from Burn Loot Murder in his own fucking rally!

And you think this means he co-opted them...

What the fuck are you smoking?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 29, 2022, 05:30:02 PM
Greetings!

Sorry, Mistwell, but your attempt at making Leftists somehow not the same as Progressives is just weak and false. It's either some weird wishful thinking on your part, or disingenuous tap-dancing and obfuscation.

Practically speaking, Leftists and Progressives ARE SYNONYMOUS.

You have a relative or friend that is a Marxist--but hates Progressives. Whoop di doo, man. Come on. Some outlier doesn't change
the essentials or the foundational truth.

Like I mentioned earlier, you like making "Distinctions without Differences".

No one cares that historically, "ACKSHULLY! there are 12 varieties of Marxists!" They are all evil fucking Marxists, branches born and stemming from the same tree, the same root.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on April 29, 2022, 07:45:21 PM
Wow, you're a fucking idiot even by MARINE  standards. How the fuck do you even remember to breath?  Comparing yourself to a shark is an insult to shark intelligence.  You probably pack a box of crayons for a MRE.

Dwight D. Eisenhower was the supreme commander of all European alllied forces in WW2, and today the rightards like you would call him a socialist fir speaking against the military industrial complex.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on April 29, 2022, 09:29:17 PM
Wow, you're a fucking idiot even by MARINE  standards. How the fuck do you even remember to breath?  Comparing yourself to a shark is an insult to shark intelligence.  You probably pack a box of crayons for a MRE.

Dwight D. Eisenhower was the supreme commander of all European alllied forces in WW2, and today the rightards like you would call him a socialist fir speaking against the military industrial complex.
Seriously, who the heck is telling you this stuff you think you know about the right?

It's currently the Democrats who are cozying up to the military industrial complex as they push for a new proxy war with Russia to replace the money laundering operation that used to be Afghanistan. Meanwhile the Republican base (which is very different from the GOP establishment) is sick and tired of the "Forever War" that only enriches various oligarchs at the cost of innocent lives lost in senseless wars.

Its the Left cozying up to BigTech, BigPharma and Wall Street. The Right backs policies like tariffs on foreign imports to bring back middle class jobs and support mom and pop businesses.

Stop taking the Daily Kos as gospel. Actually read something from the other perspective. I'd recommend reading damned near anything from Hillsdale College or PragerU... just to get an alternative viewpoint actually from the horse's mouth instead of what the other side claims they're saying. If you can't manage that, try the used to be Lefty, but didn't change his positions and so is now right, Tim Pool.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on April 29, 2022, 11:59:36 PM
Yesy yeah yeah. Every fucking Time you show a fucking contard what they're doing it's the same fucking reply,  every fucking time.  'I KNOW Y'ARE BUT WHAT AM I? "

The only good news is that covid is killing conservatives at like 8x the rate it's killing non conservatives.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 30, 2022, 12:40:03 AM
Wow, you're a fucking idiot even by MARINE  standards. How the fuck do you even remember to breath?  Comparing yourself to a shark is an insult to shark intelligence.  You probably pack a box of crayons for a MRE.

Dwight D. Eisenhower was the supreme commander of all European alllied forces in WW2, and today the rightards like you would call him a socialist fir speaking against the military industrial complex.

Greetings!

You can get fucked, pussy.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on April 30, 2022, 02:16:07 AM
Come to think of it, a shark is a good avatar for you.

Basically an extremely primitive type of animal, largely incapable of change, with a huge moutn and a tiny brain incapable of learning or higher thought processes. I'm wondering if you went by the name paladin on another board.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on April 30, 2022, 03:37:45 AM
Come to think of it, a shark is a good avatar for you.

Basically an extremely primitive type of animal, largely incapable of change, with a huge moutn and a tiny brain incapable of learning or higher thought processes. I'm wondering if you went by the name paladin on another board.

Greetings!

Yeah, Battlemaster, you're right. I'm an extremely primitive, violent, gun-toting, bible-thumping "Bitter Clinger!" Right-Wing monster. Incapable of learning higher thought processes. I live to breed the females, kill my enemies, and oppress everyone that is different from me. I have an anvil jaw, and heavy brows, too. I'm proud of my Neanderthal heritage. I drink alcohol and coffee, and I smoke a pipe and cigars. I am the epitome of "Toxic Masculinity". In my cave-like home, I keep a Glock 21 45-pistol at my bedside, with a Common Man King James Bible. I'm just part of the unwashed masses that needs to be properly re-educated and ruled over by my intellectual and social betters, the Communist Global Elite.

*Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on April 30, 2022, 05:15:30 AM
I generally prefer  long cylinder. 410 Taurus revolver myself. Extreme stopping power at close range vs. unarmored targets (most crims don't invest in armor) and due to the ammo it drastically reduces the risk of collateral damage to bystanders.

That's called responsible gun ownership.

Since some of the bipeds I anticipate having to defend myself against (trumpist stormtrooper wanna-be's)  have started wearing low level body armor to look tough I did get something with more penetration, a ruger 5.7x28 with red dot site to minimize the odds of missing. As callous as it sounds I must admit the mass shooting at Ft. Hood proved the FN 57 type pistol highly effective.

I practice every other month at a range ran by a progressive who encourages others to be ready to defend themselves from, well, bipeds like you.

I enjoy using life sized pics of Kyle shittenhouse, the qanon shaman and prominent 1-6 coup attempt members for practice.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on April 30, 2022, 06:37:21 AM
Back on topic, I'm not crazy about this board, but I understand why it has users.  I can understand why some people use it.


I canNOT understand how and why RPG.net has users.

Then again I can't understand why some people pay to be whipped and pissed on.

Maybe they're the same people.

Anyway after having a valid thread shut down with a muttered threat I gave them my BMMF, I mostly I wanted to get a BL23c 7e posted there, but it doesn't meet their  ideological purity test.

This site may hate a game but you'll at least let it be reviewed here.

Btw ever notice tbp doesn't have a like function for posted? Doesn't the board support one or fo the mods turn it off yo make it clear the peasants opinions don't matter and arent wanted?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 30, 2022, 09:49:50 AM
I generally prefer  long cylinder. 410 Taurus revolver myself. Extreme stopping power at close range vs. unarmored targets (most crims don't invest in armor) and due to the ammo it drastically reduces the risk of collateral damage to bystanders.

That's called responsible gun ownership.

Since some of the bipeds I anticipate having to defend myself against (trumpist stormtrooper wanna-be's)  have started wearing low level body armor to look tough I did get something with more penetration, a ruger 5.7x28 with red dot site to minimize the odds of missing. As callous as it sounds I must admit the mass shooting at Ft. Hood proved the FN 57 type pistol highly effective.

I practice every other month at a range ran by a progressive who encourages others to be ready to defend themselves from, well, bipeds like you.

I enjoy using life sized pics of Kyle shittenhouse, the qanon shaman and prominent 1-6 coup attempt members for practice.

  That qualifies as a "cools story bro", and if you think covid is killing conversatives at some outstanding rate...you are not very smart.   Unless you think all really old people are conservative.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on April 30, 2022, 11:20:02 AM
Yesy yeah yeah. Every fucking Time you show a fucking contard what they're doing it's the same fucking reply,  every fucking time.  'I KNOW Y'ARE BUT WHAT AM I? "

The only good news is that covid is killing conservatives at like 8x the rate it's killing non conservatives.

Covid.. With its 98%+ survival rate..
Yeah man" the coof "is just killing so many people... It's not like The WHO inflated the number of deaths by attributing anyone who happened to die from anything else who also happened to have covid, to death by covid or anything right  ::)

I mean it's not like fucking GUN SHOT DEATHS are being attributed to covid to inflate the numbers, right?

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/12/17/in-colorado-theyre-counting-gun-shot-fatalities-as-covid-deaths-n2581730
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 30, 2022, 11:55:28 AM
I generally prefer  long cylinder. 410 Taurus revolver myself. Extreme stopping power at close range vs. unarmored targets (most crims don't invest in armor) and due to the ammo it drastically reduces the risk of collateral damage to bystanders.

That's called responsible gun ownership.

Since some of the bipeds I anticipate having to defend myself against (trumpist stormtrooper wanna-be's)  have started wearing low level body armor to look tough I did get something with more penetration, a ruger 5.7x28 with red dot site to minimize the odds of missing. As callous as it sounds I must admit the mass shooting at Ft. Hood proved the FN 57 type pistol highly effective.

I practice every other month at a range ran by a progressive who encourages others to be ready to defend themselves from, well, bipeds like you.

I enjoy using life sized pics of Kyle shittenhouse, the qanon shaman and prominent 1-6 coup attempt members for practice.

  That qualifies as a "cools story bro", and if you think covid is killing conversatives at some outstanding rate...you are not very smart.   Unless you think all really old people are conservative.

Dude, you're arguing with an imbecile, the eating crayons and glue type. Him and fixable belong in the mute list.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 30, 2022, 12:13:43 PM
I generally prefer  long cylinder. 410 Taurus revolver myself. Extreme stopping power at close range vs. unarmored targets (most crims don't invest in armor) and due to the ammo it drastically reduces the risk of collateral damage to bystanders.

That's called responsible gun ownership.

Since some of the bipeds I anticipate having to defend myself against (trumpist stormtrooper wanna-be's)  have started wearing low level body armor to look tough I did get something with more penetration, a ruger 5.7x28 with red dot site to minimize the odds of missing. As callous as it sounds I must admit the mass shooting at Ft. Hood proved the FN 57 type pistol highly effective.

I practice every other month at a range ran by a progressive who encourages others to be ready to defend themselves from, well, bipeds like you.

I enjoy using life sized pics of Kyle shittenhouse, the qanon shaman and prominent 1-6 coup attempt members for practice.

  That qualifies as a "cools story bro", and if you think covid is killing conversatives at some outstanding rate...you are not very smart.   Unless you think all really old people are conservative.

Dude, you're arguing with an imbecile, the eating crayons and glue type. Him and fixable belong in the mute list.

  I dont know that any responses I have had for him to date are on the argument level.   I don't bother muting because I do love to hear what folks like that hold close to their hearts.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: The Spaniard on April 30, 2022, 12:44:25 PM
I generally prefer  long cylinder. 410 Taurus revolver myself. Extreme stopping power at close range vs. unarmored targets (most crims don't invest in armor) and due to the ammo it drastically reduces the risk of collateral damage to bystanders.

That's called responsible gun ownership.

Since some of the bipeds I anticipate having to defend myself against (trumpist stormtrooper wanna-be's)  have started wearing low level body armor to look tough I did get something with more penetration, a ruger 5.7x28 with red dot site to minimize the odds of missing. As callous as it sounds I must admit the mass shooting at Ft. Hood proved the FN 57 type pistol highly effective.

I practice every other month at a range ran by a progressive who encourages others to be ready to defend themselves from, well, bipeds like you.

I enjoy using life sized pics of Kyle shittenhouse, the qanon shaman and prominent 1-6 coup attempt members for practice.

  That qualifies as a "cools story bro", and if you think covid is killing conversatives at some outstanding rate...you are not very smart.   Unless you think all really old people are conservative.

Dude, you're arguing with an imbecile, the eating crayons and glue type. Him and fixable belong in the mute list.

  I dont know that any responses I have had for him to date are on the argument level.   I don't bother muting because I do love to hear what folks like that hold close to their hearts.

He's here to troll.  He'll move on after a while.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on April 30, 2022, 06:08:14 PM
  Back on topic https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/batttlemaster-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-0.896759/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on April 30, 2022, 06:32:07 PM
  Back on topic https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/batttlemaster-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-0.896759/

Those fucking Trumpers eh
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on April 30, 2022, 06:48:23 PM
  Back on topic https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/batttlemaster-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-0.896759/

I detect no lies in that post of his.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: The Spaniard on April 30, 2022, 07:32:00 PM
  Back on topic https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/batttlemaster-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-0.896759/

I detect no lies in that post of his.
Yea, have to admit he was spot on
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 01, 2022, 01:56:20 AM
  Back on topic https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/batttlemaster-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-0.896759/

Those fucking Trumpers eh
If he ever removes the cocks from his mouth, maybe he'll have an epiphany.

...Nah.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yancy on May 01, 2022, 06:01:16 AM
I generally prefer  long cylinder. 410 Taurus revolver myself. Extreme stopping power at close range vs. unarmored targets (most crims don't invest in armor) and due to the ammo it drastically reduces the risk of collateral damage to bystanders.

This is what happens when you 'learn about guns' on reddit. I'd go so far as to say you'd be better off learning about guns from COD or some shit :/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on May 01, 2022, 10:38:17 AM
I generally prefer  long cylinder. 410 Taurus revolver myself. Extreme stopping power at close range vs. unarmored targets (most crims don't invest in armor) and due to the ammo it drastically reduces the risk of collateral damage to bystanders.

This is what happens when you 'learn about guns' on reddit. I'd go so far as to say you'd be better off learning about guns from COD or some shit :/

Greetings!

*Laughing* Totally true, Yancy! Call of Duty. *Rolling*

Yeah, well, he claims to have a .410 revolver. "Extreme stopping power". Yeah, ok. You keep thinking that.

That's why I use a Glock.45 pistol. Not terribly different from a Colt 1911. Very much just like the side arms carried by all American combat forces from World War I to Vietnam, Iraq, and into Afghanistan. Especially favoured by the Navy Seals, Army Rangers, and most stridently, by the U.S. Marines.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yancy on May 01, 2022, 07:36:12 PM
I'm not an expert on weapons tactics like this guy is, for instance, I would never use highly advanced technical terms like 'crims' and 'collateral damage' because I don't know what they mean :/

I have however, handled guns outside of Overwatch before, and based on this experience I suspect that a 5 pound revolver firing .410 shotgun shells out of a short rifled barrel, is not an ideal choice for either 'carrying around' or 'hitting things that you shoot at' in general :(

I don't know, I don't really closely read the things lefties, or people pretending to be lefties, post here anymore, maybe it's all part of some brilliant performance art I'm not sophisticated enough to appreciate.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Effete on May 03, 2022, 10:29:59 AM
  Back on topic https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/batttlemaster-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-0.896759/

Less than a week... 34 posts... 10 reports...

Sounds like challenge.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on May 04, 2022, 11:29:26 AM
And apparently, TBP has finally declared abortion the official religion of the site: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/announcement-re-abortion-rights-are-human-rights.896908/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/announcement-re-abortion-rights-are-human-rights.896908/)

I was browsing the site without being logged in (as I've done for the past five years), so I can't see the original Diabolic Decree. But some are pushing for it to be made front and center.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on May 04, 2022, 12:56:38 PM
And apparently, TBP has finally declared abortion the official religion of the site: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/announcement-re-abortion-rights-are-human-rights.896908/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/announcement-re-abortion-rights-are-human-rights.896908/)

I was browsing the site without being logged in (as I've done for the past five years), so I can't see the original Diabolic Decree. But some are pushing for it to be made front and center.
Posted by The Wyzard:
“Note that the official position of the staff, and by extension the RPGnet forum rules, is that abortion rights are human rights.

Arguments to the effect that pregnant individuals should be forced by law to give birth against their will are likely to be treated as any other attack on the human rights of other posters.”

I wonder if they’ll start reviewing people’s post and/or signatures for anything hinting at being pro-life, and then permaban them as being a “bad fit”. Used to be pro-life, but have since become conflicted or pro-choice? You’d better get your statement out now praising Roe v. Wade before the TBP commissars purge you.

I wonder how many political positions they’ll eventually come up with that the staff/members has to adhere to? Could be fun to see how many opportunities for future purges this can create.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on May 04, 2022, 01:16:59 PM
Anyone want to pass on a request to permaban my abandoned account? :) This is a hill I'll die on.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on May 04, 2022, 01:30:58 PM
Anyone want to pass on a request to permaban my abandoned account? :) This is a hill I'll die on.
If you don't like it, don't go there. Why does a permaban matter?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on May 04, 2022, 01:33:46 PM
Anyone want to pass on a request to permaban my abandoned account? :) This is a hill I'll die on.
If you don't like it, don't go there. Why does a permaban matter?

   That was what they call a joke. :) But if they want to establish these tests for being 'a good fit for the site', why not offer them a few examples to encourage submission? :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 04, 2022, 02:33:31 PM
Anyone want to pass on a request to permaban my abandoned account? :) This is a hill I'll die on.
If you don't like it, don't go there. Why does a permaban matter?

   That was what they call a joke. :) But if they want to establish these tests for being 'a good fit for the site', why not offer them a few examples to encourage submission? :)

Damn, I'm the aspie but even I can see the emoji.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 04, 2022, 02:49:05 PM
Anyone want to pass on a request to permaban my abandoned account? :) This is a hill I'll die on.
Why give them even that small amount of serotonin from getting their jollies?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on May 04, 2022, 04:13:29 PM
And apparently, TBP has finally declared abortion the official religion of the site: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/announcement-re-abortion-rights-are-human-rights.896908/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/announcement-re-abortion-rights-are-human-rights.896908/)

I was browsing the site without being logged in (as I've done for the past five years), so I can't see the original Diabolic Decree. But some are pushing for it to be made front and center.
Posted by The Wyzard:
“Note that the official position of the staff, and by extension the RPGnet forum rules, is that abortion rights are human rights.

Arguments to the effect that pregnant individuals should be forced by law to give birth against their will are likely to be treated as any other attack on the human rights of other posters.”

I wonder if they’ll start reviewing people’s post and/or signatures for anything hinting at being pro-life, and then permaban them as being a “bad fit”. Used to be pro-life, but have since become conflicted or pro-choice? You’d better get your statement out now praising Roe v. Wade before the TBP commissars purge you.

I wonder how many political positions they’ll eventually come up with that the staff/members has to adhere to? Could be fun to see how many opportunities for future purges this can create.

I'm surprised it took them this long to declare this. It's been a de facto policy that anything opposing baby sacrifice was punished under rules claiming that opposing said sacrifices was racist.

The Molech sacrifices had higher morality than this; at least they were honest.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on May 04, 2022, 05:14:11 PM
Why the fuck does an RPG site need to have a policy on abortion.

At least they are all going to hell.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 04, 2022, 05:46:06 PM
Why the fuck does an RPG site need to have a policy on abortion.

At least they are all going to hell.

Because they "follow the sciencetm" until it contradicts their cult's dogma.

https://quillette.com/2019/10/16/i-asked-thousands-of-biologists-when-life-begins-the-answer-wasnt-popular/ (https://quillette.com/2019/10/16/i-asked-thousands-of-biologists-when-life-begins-the-answer-wasnt-popular/)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on May 04, 2022, 05:56:30 PM
But some are pushing for it to be made front and center.

Been done. If you go to the site now you get the same kind of announcement popup they had for BLM, and (to reluctantly concede acceptable use) for notices of forum members' passing, if they learn of it.

I don't know why they don't just say something in their rules like, "Explicit proselytization or apologias for any anti-LGBT/anti-choice faith, belief system, or social organization -- including but not limited to the American Republican Party, the British Tories, the People's Party of Canada, Focus on the Family, and the Roman Catholic Church, Evangelical Christianity or other regressive faith -- are universally forbidden in all forums. Violators will receive one warning, after which any repeat offense will result in a permaban." It would amount to virtually the same policy and it'd at least be more transparent.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on May 04, 2022, 06:05:01 PM
It would amount to virtually the same policy and it'd at least be more transparent.

  Transparency is the enemy of the totalitarian regime. :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on May 04, 2022, 06:18:41 PM
And apparently, TBP has finally declared abortion the official religion of the site: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/announcement-re-abortion-rights-are-human-rights.896908/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/announcement-re-abortion-rights-are-human-rights.896908/)

I was browsing the site without being logged in (as I've done for the past five years), so I can't see the original Diabolic Decree. But some are pushing for it to be made front and center.
Good.  The sooner they establish that human life is only precious when it meets some standard of utility, the sooner we can establish that the mods and general population of that site falls far short of that (or any) standard...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 04, 2022, 11:09:18 PM
Why the fuck does an RPG site need to have a policy on abortion.

Regardless of ones view on abortion, it really is quite weird that an RPG site feels the need to have a view of any kind on that topic.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on May 04, 2022, 11:15:32 PM
Why the fuck does an RPG site need to have a policy on abortion.

Regardless of ones view on abortion, it really is quite weird that an RPG site feels the need to have a view of any kind on that topic.
TBP is a cult. A cult has to be able to provide answers to any topic that may be contentious or it risks fracture.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on May 04, 2022, 11:21:44 PM
And apparently, TBP has finally declared abortion the official religion of the site: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/announcement-re-abortion-rights-are-human-rights.896908/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/announcement-re-abortion-rights-are-human-rights.896908/)

I was browsing the site without being logged in (as I've done for the past five years), so I can't see the original Diabolic Decree. But some are pushing for it to be made front and center.
Good.  The sooner they establish that human life is only precious when it meets some standard of utility, the sooner we can establish that the mods and general population of that site falls far short of that (or any) standard...

You forget that they meet their standards of “being on the right side of history”.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on May 04, 2022, 11:38:30 PM
And apparently, TBP has finally declared abortion the official religion of the site: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/announcement-re-abortion-rights-are-human-rights.896908/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/announcement-re-abortion-rights-are-human-rights.896908/)

I was browsing the site without being logged in (as I've done for the past five years), so I can't see the original Diabolic Decree. But some are pushing for it to be made front and center.
Good.  The sooner they establish that human life is only precious when it meets some standard of utility, the sooner we can establish that the mods and general population of that site falls far short of that (or any) standard...

You forget that they meet their standards of “being on the right side of history”.
Based on their promotion of lebens unwertenlebens, they need to be more concerned about being on the right side of the dirt...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on May 05, 2022, 07:25:34 AM
Why the fuck does an RPG site need to have a policy on abortion.

Those virtues won’t signal themselves, you know.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 05, 2022, 01:38:45 PM
I gotta say, if you have a TBP account, check out the SCOTUS/Roe thread in Tangency.

It's fascinating to read. There's some really deranged thinking there.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on May 05, 2022, 01:44:55 PM
Why the fuck does an RPG site need to have a policy on abortion.

Regardless of ones view on abortion, it really is quite weird that an RPG site feels the need to have a view of any kind on that topic.

With that, the BLM and other notices, and the pop-up obituaries, they've turned virtue signalling into a full time job.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on May 05, 2022, 02:36:07 PM
I gotta say, if you have a TBP account, check out the SCOTUS/Roe thread in Tangency.

It's fascinating to read. There's some really deranged thinking there.

Once you get a mother to sacrifice her own child and see it as a moral good, everything else seems not as bad.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on May 05, 2022, 03:05:43 PM
I gotta say, if you have a TBP account, check out the SCOTUS/Roe thread in Tangency.

It's fascinating to read. There's some really deranged thinking there.
From what I understand Mississippi’s cut off at 15 weeks is 1 week longer than France’s limit at 14 weeks. I often hear progressives bemoan how the States aren’t more like Europe. Ok, Mississippi has a time limit similar to what they have in Europe. “Nooooo!!!! Not like that!!!!” they then decry. Who knew that France’s government is run by a bunch of dumb redneck hicks?! (/s just in case)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 05, 2022, 03:55:53 PM
Why the fuck does an RPG site need to have a policy on abortion.

Regardless of ones view on abortion, it really is quite weird that an RPG site feels the need to have a view of any kind on that topic.

Weird? They've been openly political and ideologically driven for years now.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 05, 2022, 04:20:56 PM
I gotta say, if you have a TBP account, check out the SCOTUS/Roe thread in Tangency.

It's fascinating to read. There's some really deranged thinking there.
From what I understand Mississippi’s cut off at 15 weeks is 1 week longer than France’s limit at 14 weeks. I often hear progressives bemoan how the States aren’t more like Europe. Ok, Mississippi has a time limit similar to what they have in Europe. “Nooooo!!!! Not like that!!!!” they then decry. Who knew that France’s government is run by a bunch of dumb redneck hicks?! (/s just in case)

Yes that's basically correct. From Wikipedia: "Abortion in France is legal on demand during the first 14 weeks of pregnancy. Abortions at later stages of pregnancy are allowed if two physicians certify that the abortion will be done to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; a risk to the life of the pregnant woman; or that the child will suffer from a particularly severe illness recognized as incurable."

And that's the NEW more liberal version of the law. It was a ten-week for many years, which was extended to the twelfth week in 2001, and only just extended to fourteen weeks this year!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 05, 2022, 04:21:30 PM
Why the fuck does an RPG site need to have a policy on abortion.

Regardless of ones view on abortion, it really is quite weird that an RPG site feels the need to have a view of any kind on that topic.

Weird? They've been openly political and ideologically driven for years now.

Yes. All of which is weird.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on May 05, 2022, 05:22:43 PM
From what I understand Mississippi’s cut off at 15 weeks is 1 week longer than France’s limit at 14 weeks. I often hear progressives bemoan how the States aren’t more like Europe. Ok, Mississippi has a time limit similar to what they have in Europe. “Nooooo!!!! Not like that!!!!” they then decry. Who knew that France’s government is run by a bunch of dumb redneck hicks?! (/s just in case)

Yes that's basically correct. From Wikipedia: "Abortion in France is legal on demand during the first 14 weeks of pregnancy. Abortions at later stages of pregnancy are allowed if two physicians certify that the abortion will be done to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; a risk to the life of the pregnant woman; or that the child will suffer from a particularly severe illness recognized as incurable."

And that's the NEW more liberal version of the law. It was a ten-week for many years, which was extended to the twelfth week in 2001, and only just extended to fourteen weeks this year!

While this is true, there are a lot of other aspects to abortion other than the gestation limit. In France as I understand it, any woman can go into any public health center and get an abortion -- and it is guaranteed 100% covered by their universal health care. There is no spousal consent required. Minors do not require parental consent, though they do require counseling and an accompanying adult. They also have universally available RU-486.

In some U.S. states, a person might have to travel hundreds of miles and/or pay major fees in order to have access to an abortion. This is effectively saying abortion is for the rich (who can easily go long distances or out of state), while putting burden on the working class.

I think most pro-choice advocates in the U.S. would gladly switch over to the system in France, while abortion opponents would massively oppose it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 05, 2022, 05:28:50 PM
From what I understand Mississippi’s cut off at 15 weeks is 1 week longer than France’s limit at 14 weeks. I often hear progressives bemoan how the States aren’t more like Europe. Ok, Mississippi has a time limit similar to what they have in Europe. “Nooooo!!!! Not like that!!!!” they then decry. Who knew that France’s government is run by a bunch of dumb redneck hicks?! (/s just in case)

Yes that's basically correct. From Wikipedia: "Abortion in France is legal on demand during the first 14 weeks of pregnancy. Abortions at later stages of pregnancy are allowed if two physicians certify that the abortion will be done to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; a risk to the life of the pregnant woman; or that the child will suffer from a particularly severe illness recognized as incurable."

And that's the NEW more liberal version of the law. It was a ten-week for many years, which was extended to the twelfth week in 2001, and only just extended to fourteen weeks this year!

While this is true, there are a lot of other aspects to abortion other than the gestation limit. In France as I understand it, any woman can go into any public health center and get an abortion -- and it is guaranteed 100% covered by their universal health care. There is no spousal consent required. Minors do not require parental consent, though they do require counseling and an accompanying adult. They also have universally available RU-486.

In some U.S. states, a person might have to travel hundreds of miles and/or pay major fees in order to have access to an abortion. This is effectively saying abortion is for the rich (who can easily go long distances or out of state), while putting burden on the working class.

I think most pro-choice advocates in the U.S. would gladly switch over to the system in France, while abortion opponents would massively oppose it.

Different subject though, isn't it? We don't have universal health care here and that topic isn't tied to or dependent on abortion.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on May 05, 2022, 05:45:32 PM
From what I understand Mississippi’s cut off at 15 weeks is 1 week longer than France’s limit at 14 weeks. I often hear progressives bemoan how the States aren’t more like Europe. Ok, Mississippi has a time limit similar to what they have in Europe. “Nooooo!!!! Not like that!!!!” they then decry. Who knew that France’s government is run by a bunch of dumb redneck hicks?! (/s just in case)

Yes that's basically correct. From Wikipedia: "Abortion in France is legal on demand during the first 14 weeks of pregnancy. Abortions at later stages of pregnancy are allowed if two physicians certify that the abortion will be done to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; a risk to the life of the pregnant woman; or that the child will suffer from a particularly severe illness recognized as incurable."

And that's the NEW more liberal version of the law. It was a ten-week for many years, which was extended to the twelfth week in 2001, and only just extended to fourteen weeks this year!

While this is true, there are a lot of other aspects to abortion other than the gestation limit. In France as I understand it, any woman can go into any public health center and get an abortion -- and it is guaranteed 100% covered by their universal health care. There is no spousal consent required. Minors do not require parental consent, though they do require counseling and an accompanying adult. They also have universally available RU-486.

In some U.S. states, a person might have to travel hundreds of miles and/or pay major fees in order to have access to an abortion. This is effectively saying abortion is for the rich (who can easily go long distances or out of state), while putting burden on the working class.

I think most pro-choice advocates in the U.S. would gladly switch over to the system in France, while abortion opponents would massively oppose it.

Different subject though, isn't it? We don't have universal health care here and that topic isn't tied to or dependent on abortion.

I’ve never heard a progressive offer to make that trade. I doubt many if any would actually be interested in that trade. Rather, they would prefer universal health care period. As Mistwell said these are actually different issues even if they both relate to in some way to health care. For me, using the term “health care” for abortion generally speaking seems wrong, but sure it often involves doctors, nurses, clinics, etc.

I think some of the anger at Roe being overturned is that some progressives viewed having abortion guaranteed as a Constitutional right as complete moral cover to the abortion issue. If it’s guaranteed by the Constitution then abortion for any reason is fully justified. If that cover is removed then they are back to having to make moral and ethical arguments for whichever abortion rules they prefer. Many abortion advocates are comfortable doing this, but I think many others are not. The “crutch” of Roe is being removed. I was almost reflexively pro-choice until I was around 17, and had to think critically about abortion for the first time in my life. It was a bit discomforting going through the thought process that led me to being generally on the pro-life side of the debate.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thornhammer on May 05, 2022, 06:20:47 PM
I gotta say, if you have a TBP account, check out the SCOTUS/Roe thread in Tangency.

I can't imagine it is anything other than rage similar to that displayed when Trump won.

About all I read there anymore is Other Games Open (the painting threads are good), Other Media some, and Tabletop Open and the D&D forum. Tangency is just not worth the blood pressure spike.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on May 05, 2022, 11:01:37 PM
 Abortion is not health care.  It is a person having an inconvenience removed from their lives and a large portion of society telling them they are doing something empowering.  I guess the Eugenics lady who started the abortions is getting exactly what she wanted.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Spinachcat on May 05, 2022, 11:10:48 PM
I guess the Eugenics lady who started the abortions is getting exactly what she wanted.

I betcha you could sell "Margret Sanger was right" t-shirts to the screeching crowd in DC right now. The memes from those pics would become legendary.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 06, 2022, 12:50:44 AM
Abortion is not health care.  It is a person having an inconvenience removed from their lives and a large portion of society telling them they are doing something empowering.  I guess the Eugenics lady who started the abortions is getting exactly what she wanted.

I can see your argument (I might not agree with it but I see it) however sometimes I think it's very clearly in the healthcare definition. Sometimes it's about the life of the mother, or the health of the mother and the fetus has already died. It's not always a matter of convenience.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 06, 2022, 01:06:10 AM
Abortion is not health care.  It is a person having an inconvenience removed from their lives and a large portion of society telling them they are doing something empowering.  I guess the Eugenics lady who started the abortions is getting exactly what she wanted.

I can see your argument (I might not agree with it but I see it) however sometimes I think it's very clearly in the healthcare definition. Sometimes it's about the life of the mother, or the health of the mother and the fetus has already died. It's not always a matter of convenience.

No one, let me repeat that: NO ONE would ever call that an abortion, nice disingenuous try tho.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mortagon on May 06, 2022, 02:53:07 AM
Abortion is not health care.  It is a person having an inconvenience removed from their lives and a large portion of society telling them they are doing something empowering.  I guess the Eugenics lady who started the abortions is getting exactly what she wanted.

I can see your argument (I might not agree with it but I see it) however sometimes I think it's very clearly in the healthcare definition. Sometimes it's about the life of the mother, or the health of the mother and the fetus has already died. It's not always a matter of convenience.

No one, let me repeat that: NO ONE would ever call that an abortion, nice disingenuous try tho.

They seem to think removing a dead fetus is an abortion in Poland. In Poland people have died because of doctors refusing to perform abortions of dead fetuses. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jan/26/poland-death-of-woman-refused-abortion (https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jan/26/poland-death-of-woman-refused-abortion)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 06, 2022, 06:54:15 AM
Abortion is not health care.  It is a person having an inconvenience removed from their lives and a large portion of society telling them they are doing something empowering.  I guess the Eugenics lady who started the abortions is getting exactly what she wanted.

I can see your argument (I might not agree with it but I see it) however sometimes I think it's very clearly in the healthcare definition. Sometimes it's about the life of the mother, or the health of the mother and the fetus has already died. It's not always a matter of convenience.

No one, let me repeat that: NO ONE would ever call that an abortion, nice disingenuous try tho.

They seem to think removing a dead fetus is an abortion in Poland. In Poland people have died because of doctors refusing to perform abortions of dead fetuses. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jan/26/poland-death-of-woman-refused-abortion (https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jan/26/poland-death-of-woman-refused-abortion)
That's nice, but we're not talking about Poland, we're talking about the U.S.

I refuse to take some kind of responsibility for someone who is on the other side of the fucking globe from me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on May 06, 2022, 07:59:34 AM
Abortion is not health care.  It is a person having an inconvenience removed from their lives and a large portion of society telling them they are doing something empowering.  I guess the Eugenics lady who started the abortions is getting exactly what she wanted.

I can see your argument (I might not agree with it but I see it) however sometimes I think it's very clearly in the healthcare definition. Sometimes it's about the life of the mother, or the health of the mother and the fetus has already died. It's not always a matter of convenience.

  If the fetus is dead, it is not an abortion.  What percentage of abortions happen because it is life threatening to the mother?  We can try to use tiny exceptions and pretend they are the rule/average, but it is not the case.  Don't get me wrong, I think people who want to kill their unborn kid should be able to.  Just don't subsidize it with public funds, and don't ask me to call a steaming pile of shit chocolate pudding.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on May 06, 2022, 09:40:24 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/tango-samurai-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-native-appropriation.896963/

So, "tribe" is now "native appropriation."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 06, 2022, 09:50:55 AM
Abortion is not health care.  It is a person having an inconvenience removed from their lives and a large portion of society telling them they are doing something empowering.  I guess the Eugenics lady who started the abortions is getting exactly what she wanted.

I can see your argument (I might not agree with it but I see it) however sometimes I think it's very clearly in the healthcare definition. Sometimes it's about the life of the mother, or the health of the mother and the fetus has already died. It's not always a matter of convenience.

No one, let me repeat that: NO ONE would ever call that an abortion, nice disingenuous try tho.

They seem to think removing a dead fetus is an abortion in Poland. In Poland people have died because of doctors refusing to perform abortions of dead fetuses. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jan/26/poland-death-of-woman-refused-abortion (https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jan/26/poland-death-of-woman-refused-abortion)

1.- It's The Guardian, a more far left newspaper couldn't be found? But that's just genetic fallacy.
2.- It's Poland, no one was talking about that country but fair point, there are some stupid people in the world (if the story is all true and as presented and why should I trust the media in this issue?)
3.- Different countries, different laws, different people, but Poland IS in the EU, why not search help outside of Poland? One whole month doing nothing... Why not get out of Poland go to I don't know Germany?

Something smells fishy here.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 06, 2022, 10:13:26 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/tango-samurai-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-native-appropriation.896963/

So, "tribe" is now "native appropriation."
I... what?

OK, I think I see what's happened. I bet Tango Samurai phrased it as 'his gaming tribal name' or something. And then thirdkingdom (whoever the fuck that is) came along and edited it to 'gaming tribe' or something.

It's still a stupid reason to hand down a seven-day.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rgalex on May 06, 2022, 10:13:38 AM
  If the fetus is dead, it is not an abortion.  What percentage of abortions happen because it is life threatening to the mother?  We can try to use tiny exceptions and pretend they are the rule/average, but it is not the case.  Don't get me wrong, I think people who want to kill their unborn kid should be able to.  Just don't subsidize it with public funds, and don't ask me to call a steaming pile of shit chocolate pudding.

Most recent data/study I found is from 2016.  There might be newer info.

Quote
Actual percentage of U.S. abortions in "hard cases" are estimated as follows: in cases of rape, 0.3%; in cases of incest, 0.03%; in cases of risk to maternal life, 0.1%; in cases of risk to maternal health, 0.8%; and in cases of fetal health issues, 0.5%. About 98.3% of abortions in the United States are elective, including socio-economic reasons or for birth control. This includes perhaps 30% for primarily economic reasons and possibly 0.1% each for sex selection and selective reduction of multifetal pregnancies."

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on May 06, 2022, 10:26:09 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/tango-samurai-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-native-appropriation.896963/

So, "tribe" is now "native appropriation."
"From the always outraged thirdkingdom..."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on May 06, 2022, 10:27:48 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/tango-samurai-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-native-appropriation.896963/

So, "tribe" is now "native appropriation."
I... what?

OK, I think I see what's happened. I bet Tango Samurai phrased it as 'his gaming tribal name' or something. And then thirdkingdom (whoever the fuck that is) came along and edited it to 'gaming tribe' or something.

It's still a stupid reason to hand down a seven-day.

Do they know if he is actually a native American or not?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 06, 2022, 10:31:19 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/tango-samurai-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-native-appropriation.896963/

So, "tribe" is now "native appropriation."
I... what?

OK, I think I see what's happened. I bet Tango Samurai phrased it as 'his gaming tribal name' or something. And then thirdkingdom (whoever the fuck that is) came along and edited it to 'gaming tribe' or something.

It's still a stupid reason to hand down a seven-day.

Do they know if he is actually a native American or not?

It doesn't matter, self-identifications is all that matters.

"I identify as..." = I like to pretend to be... It's just a bunch of LARPers.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 06, 2022, 11:17:22 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/tango-samurai-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-native-appropriation.896963/

So, "tribe" is now "native appropriation."
I... what?

OK, I think I see what's happened. I bet Tango Samurai phrased it as 'his gaming tribal name' or something. And then thirdkingdom (whoever the fuck that is) came along and edited it to 'gaming tribe' or something.

It's still a stupid reason to hand down a seven-day.

Do they know if he is actually a native American or not?

It doesn't matter, self-identifications is all that matters.

"I identify as..." = I like to pretend to be... It's just a bunch of LARPers.
Not even that good. It's 'oh you have too much internalized self hatred to object! I will stand up for you, proud minority!'.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 06, 2022, 11:18:41 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/tango-samurai-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-native-appropriation.896963/

So, "tribe" is now "native appropriation."
I... what?

OK, I think I see what's happened. I bet Tango Samurai phrased it as 'his gaming tribal name' or something. And then thirdkingdom (whoever the fuck that is) came along and edited it to 'gaming tribe' or something.

It's still a stupid reason to hand down a seven-day.

Do they know if he is actually a native American or not?

It doesn't matter, self-identifications is all that matters.

"I identify as..." = I like to pretend to be... It's just a bunch of LARPers.
Not even that good. It's 'oh you have too much internalized self hatred to object! I will stand up for you, proud minority!'.

It's both.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 06, 2022, 11:23:35 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/tango-samurai-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-native-appropriation.896963/

So, "tribe" is now "native appropriation."
I... what?

OK, I think I see what's happened. I bet Tango Samurai phrased it as 'his gaming tribal name' or something. And then thirdkingdom (whoever the fuck that is) came along and edited it to 'gaming tribe' or something.

It's still a stupid reason to hand down a seven-day.

Do they know if he is actually a native American or not?

It doesn't matter, self-identifications is all that matters.

"I identify as..." = I like to pretend to be... It's just a bunch of LARPers.
Not even that good. It's 'oh you have too much internalized self hatred to object! I will stand up for you, proud minority!'.

It's both.
I defer to you, proud Hispanic man of color :D

Kidding, kidding. In all seriousness, though, yeah, it's probably both. Fuckers just LOVE to wave the banners for people who wish they'd just go away.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 06, 2022, 12:03:16 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/tango-samurai-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-native-appropriation.896963/

So, "tribe" is now "native appropriation."
I... what?

OK, I think I see what's happened. I bet Tango Samurai phrased it as 'his gaming tribal name' or something. And then thirdkingdom (whoever the fuck that is) came along and edited it to 'gaming tribe' or something.

It's still a stupid reason to hand down a seven-day.

Do they know if he is actually a native American or not?

It doesn't matter, self-identifications is all that matters.

"I identify as..." = I like to pretend to be... It's just a bunch of LARPers.
Not even that good. It's 'oh you have too much internalized self hatred to object! I will stand up for you, proud minority!'.

It's both.
I defer to you, proud Hispanic man of color :D

Kidding, kidding. In all seriousness, though, yeah, it's probably both. Fuckers just LOVE to wave the banners for people who wish they'd just go away.

They can't help it if I'm too inferior to stand on my own and need their pasty white saviour ass to save me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 06, 2022, 12:19:48 PM
Abortion is not health care.  It is a person having an inconvenience removed from their lives and a large portion of society telling them they are doing something empowering.  I guess the Eugenics lady who started the abortions is getting exactly what she wanted.

I can see your argument (I might not agree with it but I see it) however sometimes I think it's very clearly in the healthcare definition. Sometimes it's about the life of the mother, or the health of the mother and the fetus has already died. It's not always a matter of convenience.


No one, let me repeat that: NO ONE would ever call that an abortion, nice disingenuous try tho.

Uh, it literally is called that. Speaking from personal experience here. That's in fact what it is called regardless of how you feel about it. And that's here in California, where they need to call in a specialist willing to do it if it's later term.

Regardless, there is no question some portion of abortions (however small) is to protect the life or health of the mother in which case those are clearly in the healthcare forum.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on May 06, 2022, 12:47:43 PM
They can't help it if I'm too inferior to stand on my own and need their pasty white saviour ass to save me.

Publicly defending someone lower down on the privilege/disadvantage hierarchy is the cornerstone of post-Selma Western morality, especially since it's the only justification allowed for keeping whatever your own rung on that ladder is.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on May 06, 2022, 01:58:38 PM
Abortion is not health care.  It is a person having an inconvenience removed from their lives and a large portion of society telling them they are doing something empowering.  I guess the Eugenics lady who started the abortions is getting exactly what she wanted.

I can see your argument (I might not agree with it but I see it) however sometimes I think it's very clearly in the healthcare definition. Sometimes it's about the life of the mother, or the health of the mother and the fetus has already died. It's not always a matter of convenience.


No one, let me repeat that: NO ONE would ever call that an abortion, nice disingenuous try tho.

Uh, it literally is called that. Speaking from personal experience here. That's in fact what it is called regardless of how you feel about it. And that's here in California, where they need to call in a specialist willing to do it if it's later term.

Regardless, there is no question some portion of abortions (however small) is to protect the life or health of the mother in which case those are clearly in the healthcare forum.

Personal experience? How many abortions have you had performed on your mangina?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 06, 2022, 03:13:39 PM
Abortion is not health care.  It is a person having an inconvenience removed from their lives and a large portion of society telling them they are doing something empowering.  I guess the Eugenics lady who started the abortions is getting exactly what she wanted.

I can see your argument (I might not agree with it but I see it) however sometimes I think it's very clearly in the healthcare definition. Sometimes it's about the life of the mother, or the health of the mother and the fetus has already died. It's not always a matter of convenience.


No one, let me repeat that: NO ONE would ever call that an abortion, nice disingenuous try tho.

Uh, it literally is called that. Speaking from personal experience here. That's in fact what it is called regardless of how you feel about it. And that's here in California, where they need to call in a specialist willing to do it if it's later term.

Regardless, there is no question some portion of abortions (however small) is to protect the life or health of the mother in which case those are clearly in the healthcare forum.

LESS THAN 2%

We were with you, safe rare and legal... But your side had to push for using it as birth control and for post birth "abortions". Well the pendulum is swinging, get fucked and I'll be here laughing my ass off.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 06, 2022, 03:19:40 PM
Abortion is not health care.  It is a person having an inconvenience removed from their lives and a large portion of society telling them they are doing something empowering.  I guess the Eugenics lady who started the abortions is getting exactly what she wanted.

I can see your argument (I might not agree with it but I see it) however sometimes I think it's very clearly in the healthcare definition. Sometimes it's about the life of the mother, or the health of the mother and the fetus has already died. It's not always a matter of convenience.


No one, let me repeat that: NO ONE would ever call that an abortion, nice disingenuous try tho.

Uh, it literally is called that. Speaking from personal experience here. That's in fact what it is called regardless of how you feel about it. And that's here in California, where they need to call in a specialist willing to do it if it's later term.

Regardless, there is no question some portion of abortions (however small) is to protect the life or health of the mother in which case those are clearly in the healthcare forum.

Well then commiefornia is even more retarded than I thought...

And the non retarded don't have a voice because your retarded cities drown them with their Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 06, 2022, 03:21:04 PM
They can't help it if I'm too inferior to stand on my own and need their pasty white saviour ass to save me.

Publicly defending someone lower down on the privilege/disadvantage hierarchy is the cornerstone of post-Selma Western morality, especially since it's the only justification allowed for keeping whatever your own rung on that ladder is.

It's also waay easier than donating your time/work to come to México to build homes for our poor.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 06, 2022, 04:36:05 PM
Abortion is not health care.  It is a person having an inconvenience removed from their lives and a large portion of society telling them they are doing something empowering.  I guess the Eugenics lady who started the abortions is getting exactly what she wanted.

I can see your argument (I might not agree with it but I see it) however sometimes I think it's very clearly in the healthcare definition. Sometimes it's about the life of the mother, or the health of the mother and the fetus has already died. It's not always a matter of convenience.


No one, let me repeat that: NO ONE would ever call that an abortion, nice disingenuous try tho.

Uh, it literally is called that. Speaking from personal experience here. That's in fact what it is called regardless of how you feel about it. And that's here in California, where they need to call in a specialist willing to do it if it's later term.

Regardless, there is no question some portion of abortions (however small) is to protect the life or health of the mother in which case those are clearly in the healthcare forum.

Personal experience? How many abortions have you had performed on your mangina?

You were on CircvsMaximvs when I discussed it in detail many years ago. If you don't recall, that's fine.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 06, 2022, 08:41:05 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/tango-samurai-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-native-appropriation.896963/

So, "tribe" is now "native appropriation."

...

That is so stupid. I can't even conceive of a meme adequate to mock it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on May 07, 2022, 01:04:14 AM
We were with you, safe rare and legal... But your side had to push for using it as birth control and for post birth "abortions". Well the pendulum is swinging, get fucked and I'll be here laughing my ass off.

I'm not clear who the "we" being referred to here, and at what point were they supporting the right to abortion? The Republican party has had an official stance against abortion since 1976, which grew ever more extreme - leading to the campaign of violence from the 1980s into 2000s where many abortion providers were murdered, their workplaces burned or bombed - as well as the Olympic bombing in 1996. Meanwhile, the number of abortions had been steadily decreasing. Reposting from the balkanization thread:

(https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/19490.jpeg)
Source: https://www.statista.com/chart/19490/us-abortion-rate-guttmacher-institute/

There has always been a spectrum of opinions on abortion, never two unified sides. I would like to see the number of abortions decrease mainly by supporting sex education along with ensuring affordable and effective birth control, so that people become pregnant when they want to. I think there's been good progress, but we could do better to reduce rates still further by this. I think that view is pretty common.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on May 07, 2022, 01:28:35 PM
We were with you, safe rare and legal... But your side had to push for using it as birth control and for post birth "abortions". Well the pendulum is swinging, get fucked and I'll be here laughing my ass off.

I'm not clear who the "we" being referred to here, and at what point were they supporting the right to abortion? The Republican party has had an official stance against abortion since 1976, which grew ever more extreme - leading to the campaign of violence from the 1980s into 2000s where many abortion providers were murdered, their workplaces burned or bombed - as well as the Olympic bombing in 1996. Meanwhile, the number of abortions had been steadily decreasing. Reposting from the balkanization thread:

(https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/19490.jpeg)
Source: https://www.statista.com/chart/19490/us-abortion-rate-guttmacher-institute/

There has always been a spectrum of opinions on abortion, never two unified sides. I would like to see the number of abortions decrease mainly by supporting sex education along with ensuring affordable and effective birth control, so that people become pregnant when they want to. I think there's been good progress, but we could do better to reduce rates still further by this. I think that view is pretty common.

98.5% of abortions ARE elective. So used as birth control, do you forget contraceptives exist? Do you pretend to ignore you can use more than one? Combining condomns with the pill, ovules, creams, foams, etc is perfectly legal AND safe.

If I jump from a plane (for sports) at 3,000 feet and both chutes fail...

Aren't those the unexpected and unintended consecuences of MY actions?

Are women really children not to understand this basic principle?

Let me make my position crystal clear:

You have the right to close your legs
You have the right to use contraceptives
You have the right to get fixed
You have the right to give the baby in adoption
You have the right to become a parent
You don't have the right to murder a baby because you were careless.

Is it clear enough for you?

Of course the 1.5% of abortions that aren't elective should remain legal, but this means puting severe restrictions on the matter.

But you keep infantilizing women.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on May 07, 2022, 02:21:29 PM
We were with you, safe rare and legal... But your side had to push for using it as birth control and for post birth "abortions". Well the pendulum is swinging, get fucked and I'll be here laughing my ass off.

I'm not clear who the "we" being referred to here, and at what point were they supporting the right to abortion? The Republican party has had an official stance against abortion since 1976, which grew ever more extreme - leading to the campaign of violence from the 1980s into 2000s where many abortion providers were murdered, their workplaces burned or bombed - as well as the Olympic bombing in 1996. Meanwhile, the number of abortions had been steadily decreasing. Reposting from the balkanization thread:

(https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/19490.jpeg)
Source: https://www.statista.com/chart/19490/us-abortion-rate-guttmacher-institute/

There has always been a spectrum of opinions on abortion, never two unified sides. I would like to see the number of abortions decrease mainly by supporting sex education along with ensuring affordable and effective birth control, so that people become pregnant when they want to. I think there's been good progress, but we could do better to reduce rates still further by this. I think that view is pretty common.

98.5% of abortions ARE elective. So used as birth control, do you forget contraceptives exist? Do you pretend to ignore you can use more than one? Combining condomns with the pill, ovules, creams, foams, etc is perfectly legal AND safe.

If I jump from a plane (for sports) at 3,000 feet and both chutes fail...

Aren't those the unexpected and unintended consecuences of MY actions?

Are women really children not to understand this basic principle?

Let me make my position crystal clear:

You have the right to close your legs
You have the right to use contraceptives
You have the right to get fixed
You have the right to give the baby in adoption
You have the right to become a parent
You don't have the right to murder a baby because you were careless.

Is it clear enough for you?

Of course the 1.5% of abortions that aren't elective should remain legal, but this means puting severe restrictions on the matter.

But you keep infantilizing women.

Greetings!

Exactly right, GeekyBugle! I just love how intellectually dishonest and fucking depraved the Liberals are. Librals so often try and tap-dance, squirm, and smokescreen the issue, attempting to bring in "Deep spiritual concerns" and intellectualized circle-jerking--

all in a huge effort to avoid admitting the truth--abortion is the result and desire of immoral, irresponsible whores, and weak, cowardly men that simply do not have the fortitude and integrity to take responsibility for their choices and their actions.

Basic SCIENCE! Stick your dick in pussy, guess what? Women have eggs, get stupid fucking horny, and can get pregnant. You make a baby, the people involved need to man the fuck up and see that the BABY is responsibly taken care of.

INTEGRITY 101.

But we both know damn good and well that Liberals hate taking responsibility for their behavior. Actions have consequences? WHAT?

Fucking pathetic, depraved, irresponsible morons.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on May 07, 2022, 05:13:06 PM
  The thing is, pro choice is really pro abortion, there is very little talk about adoption. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 07, 2022, 08:56:09 PM
You guys do realize birth control fails sometimes, right? For example, The Pill has a typical use failure rate of around 4%. If you accidentally get pregnant while on the pill, that's an elective abortion from someone who took steps to not get pregnant, but those steps accidentally failed.

Condoms also have a failure rate of approximately 3%.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on May 07, 2022, 09:19:42 PM
You guys do realize birth control fails sometimes, right? For example, The Pill has a typical use failure rate of around 4%. If you accidentally get pregnant while on the pill, that's an elective abortion from someone who took steps to not get pregnant, but those steps accidentally failed.

Condoms also have a failure rate of approximately 3%.

Greetings!

REEE! REEE! ;D

The 304's riding the Cock Carousel can choose to keep their fucking legs closed. Imagine that? A woman having some integrity, morals, and being responsible and choosing not to be a fucking THOTTY.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 07, 2022, 09:26:22 PM
You guys do realize birth control fails sometimes, right? For example, The Pill has a typical use failure rate of around 4%. If you accidentally get pregnant while on the pill, that's an elective abortion from someone who took steps to not get pregnant, but those steps accidentally failed.

Condoms also have a failure rate of approximately 3%.

Greetings!

REEE! REEE! ;D

The 304's riding the Cock Carousel can choose to keep their fucking legs closed. Imagine that? A woman having some integrity, morals, and being responsible and choosing not to be a fucking THOTTY.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Keep your morality out of other people's business you puritan. You're fucking former military. Do not lecture other people about sleeping with others. Or are you going to pretend you didn't sleep with women who were not your spouse in your 20s?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on May 07, 2022, 10:29:25 PM
You know, its hard for a woman to get pregnant if a man nuts in her mouth or her ass.
Just sayin'.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on May 07, 2022, 10:31:33 PM
You guys do realize birth control fails sometimes, right? For example, The Pill has a typical use failure rate of around 4%. If you accidentally get pregnant while on the pill, that's an elective abortion from someone who took steps to not get pregnant, but those steps accidentally failed.

Condoms also have a failure rate of approximately 3%.

Greetings!

REEE! REEE! ;D

The 304's riding the Cock Carousel can choose to keep their fucking legs closed. Imagine that? A woman having some integrity, morals, and being responsible and choosing not to be a fucking THOTTY.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Keep your morality out of other people's business you puritan. You're fucking former military. Do not lecture other people about sleeping with others. Or are you going to pretend you didn't sleep with women who were not your spouse in your 20s?

It's not morality, retard.  It's responsibility.  The end product of sex is pregnancy.  Now, people may like to have sex and wish to avoid pregnancy, but that doesn't change the biological purpose of the act.  If you have sex and get pregnant, then everything has worked as intended.  If you don't want to risk pregnancy, don't have sex.  If you are willing to take that risk, you must be willing to accept the potential consequences.  One of which is an unwanted pregnancy.  And ending a life because you "don't want it" is the definition of "elective."

If not murdering a baby is morally "getting in other people's business", then no regulation of any human conduct is possible.  Which is just stupid.  We have laws against a lot less drastic things than infanticide (that you have certainly approved of), so that argument is plain moronic.  So, your challenge, as a supporter of infanticide, is to explain why people engaging in a purely optional behavior have any cause to complain when that act results in the very thing that act is intended to produce, as well as why the taking of a human life is an appropriate measure for the irresponsible to use to avoid the foreseeable consequences of their actions.  This is why sleazy immoral fucks like you abortion supporters are so keen to deflect the argument onto topics like when life begins or when is a baby viable... because you just can't justify killing another human just to avoid the consequences of your own actions (well, you can try, but probably don't like it when people look at you like the monsters you are while you are trying)...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 07, 2022, 10:50:25 PM
You know, its hard for a woman to get pregnant if a man nuts in her mouth or her ass.
Just sayin'.

That what you do with your significant other?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 07, 2022, 10:55:32 PM
You guys do realize birth control fails sometimes, right? For example, The Pill has a typical use failure rate of around 4%. If you accidentally get pregnant while on the pill, that's an elective abortion from someone who took steps to not get pregnant, but those steps accidentally failed.

Condoms also have a failure rate of approximately 3%.

Greetings!

REEE! REEE! ;D

The 304's riding the Cock Carousel can choose to keep their fucking legs closed. Imagine that? A woman having some integrity, morals, and being responsible and choosing not to be a fucking THOTTY.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Keep your morality out of other people's business you puritan. You're fucking former military. Do not lecture other people about sleeping with others. Or are you going to pretend you didn't sleep with women who were not your spouse in your 20s?

It's not morality, retard.  It's responsibility.  The end product of sex is pregnancy.  Now, people may like to have sex and wish to avoid pregnancy, but that doesn't change the biological purpose of the act.  If you have sex and get pregnant, then everything has worked as intended.  If you don't want to risk pregnancy, don't have sex.  If you are willing to take that risk, you must be willing to accept the potential consequences.  One of which is an unwanted pregnancy.  And ending a life because you "don't want it" is the definition of "elective."

If not murdering a baby is morally "getting in other people's business", then no regulation of any human conduct is possible.  Which is just stupid.  We have laws against a lot less drastic things than infanticide (that you have certainly approved of), so that argument is plain moronic.  So, your challenge, as a supporter of infanticide, is to explain why people engaging in a purely optional behavior have any cause to complain when that act results in the very thing that act is intended to produce, as well as why the taking of a human life is an appropriate measure for the irresponsible to use to avoid the foreseeable consequences of their actions.  This is why sleazy immoral fucks like you abortion supporters are so keen to deflect the argument onto topics like when life begins or when is a baby viable... because you just can't justify killing another human just to avoid the consequences of your own actions (well, you can try, but probably don't like it when people look at you like the monsters you are while you are trying)...

So when SHARK had sex in his 20s with women who were not his spouse, how would you describe his behavior?

As for murder, we disagree about when human life begins. It's life in the first trimester, but it's not "human" life yet until the second trimester.  At least, that's my perspective. Which is why I think the 14 week law they were trying to pass was reasonable, but I think claiming human life begins at conception isn't. I mean, I understand why some people think it begins at conception and I have sympathy for that position and I certainly don't call people names for disagreeing with me on when human life begins, but in my view life doesn't begin at conception.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on May 07, 2022, 10:57:20 PM
You guys do realize birth control fails sometimes, right? For example, The Pill has a typical use failure rate of around 4%. If you accidentally get pregnant while on the pill, that's an elective abortion from someone who took steps to not get pregnant, but those steps accidentally failed.

Condoms also have a failure rate of approximately 3%.

Greetings!

REEE! REEE! ;D

The 304's riding the Cock Carousel can choose to keep their fucking legs closed. Imagine that? A woman having some integrity, morals, and being responsible and choosing not to be a fucking THOTTY.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Keep your morality out of other people's business you puritan. You're fucking former military. Do not lecture other people about sleeping with others. Or are you going to pretend you didn't sleep with women who were not your spouse in your 20s?

It's not morality, retard.  It's responsibility.  The end product of sex is pregnancy.  Now, people may like to have sex and wish to avoid pregnancy, but that doesn't change the biological purpose of the act.  If you have sex and get pregnant, then everything has worked as intended.  If you don't want to risk pregnancy, don't have sex.  If you are willing to take that risk, you must be willing to accept the potential consequences.  One of which is an unwanted pregnancy.  And ending a life because you "don't want it" is the definition of "elective."

If not murdering a baby is morally "getting in other people's business", then no regulation of any human conduct is possible.  Which is just stupid.  We have laws against a lot less drastic things than infanticide (that you have certainly approved of), so that argument is plain moronic.  So, your challenge, as a supporter of infanticide, is to explain why people engaging in a purely optional behavior have any cause to complain when that act results in the very thing that act is intended to produce, as well as why the taking of a human life is an appropriate measure for the irresponsible to use to avoid the foreseeable consequences of their actions.  This is why sleazy immoral fucks like you abortion supporters are so keen to deflect the argument onto topics like when life begins or when is a baby viable... because you just can't justify killing another human just to avoid the consequences of your own actions (well, you can try, but probably don't like it when people look at you like the monsters you are while you are trying)...

Greetings!

Exactly right, Eirikrautha!

I'm a poor sinner like everyone else. The bottom line is about taking responsibility--and not making an innocent BABY suffer the consequences for your choices.

Get pregnant? You do that which is right and take care of the child. Period. That's a standard for men, women, everywhere. Marriage, or adoption. Either works for being both moral and responsible.

Yes, I know, I know, the Libertines amongst us don't like that, but as my parents told me when I was a teenager--"You will do that which is right, no matter the cost to you personally. You will not dishonor your family, the girl you got pregnant, the girl's family, or the baby. If you don't love her, too bad. You will have your whole lifetime married together to learn to love each other. You will do that which is honorable and right. Period. You don't like that, then don't have sex."

Yes, that is what my mother and father told me upon entering the summer before going to high school.

All these squishy Liberals just don't want to ever take responsibility for any of their actions, and are willing to murder the baby their own actions produced. It is disgusting, my friend! Sad.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on May 07, 2022, 10:58:47 PM
You know, its hard for a woman to get pregnant if a man nuts in her mouth or her ass.
Just sayin'.

That what you do with your significant other?

You mean you don't? Aren't you concerned about getting her pregnant?

Oh, right. You two just choose for her to go get an abortion.....
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on May 07, 2022, 11:21:30 PM
You guys do realize birth control fails sometimes, right? For example, The Pill has a typical use failure rate of around 4%. If you accidentally get pregnant while on the pill, that's an elective abortion from someone who took steps to not get pregnant, but those steps accidentally failed.

Condoms also have a failure rate of approximately 3%.

Greetings!

REEE! REEE! ;D

The 304's riding the Cock Carousel can choose to keep their fucking legs closed. Imagine that? A woman having some integrity, morals, and being responsible and choosing not to be a fucking THOTTY.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Keep your morality out of other people's business you puritan. You're fucking former military. Do not lecture other people about sleeping with others. Or are you going to pretend you didn't sleep with women who were not your spouse in your 20s?

It's not morality, retard.  It's responsibility.  The end product of sex is pregnancy.  Now, people may like to have sex and wish to avoid pregnancy, but that doesn't change the biological purpose of the act.  If you have sex and get pregnant, then everything has worked as intended.  If you don't want to risk pregnancy, don't have sex.  If you are willing to take that risk, you must be willing to accept the potential consequences.  One of which is an unwanted pregnancy.  And ending a life because you "don't want it" is the definition of "elective."

If not murdering a baby is morally "getting in other people's business", then no regulation of any human conduct is possible.  Which is just stupid.  We have laws against a lot less drastic things than infanticide (that you have certainly approved of), so that argument is plain moronic.  So, your challenge, as a supporter of infanticide, is to explain why people engaging in a purely optional behavior have any cause to complain when that act results in the very thing that act is intended to produce, as well as why the taking of a human life is an appropriate measure for the irresponsible to use to avoid the foreseeable consequences of their actions.  This is why sleazy immoral fucks like you abortion supporters are so keen to deflect the argument onto topics like when life begins or when is a baby viable... because you just can't justify killing another human just to avoid the consequences of your own actions (well, you can try, but probably don't like it when people look at you like the monsters you are while you are trying)...

So when SHARK had sex in his 20s with women who were not his spouse, how would you describe his behavior?

As for murder, we disagree about when human life begins. It's life in the first trimester, but it's not "human" life yet until the second trimester.  At least, that's my perspective. Which is why I think the 14 week law they were trying to pass was reasonable, but I think claiming human life begins at conception isn't. I mean, I understand why some people think it begins at conception and I have sympathy for that position and I certainly don't call people names for disagreeing with me on when human life begins, but in my view life doesn't begin at conception.

I'm not interested in your "beliefs" (talk about pushing your morality on others).  Is a zygote alive?  Every biologist will agree a zygote is alive.  What kind of life is it?  Is it a cat?  A dog?  A mongoose? It is a human.  Every cell contains DNA that establishes that the creature is human.  So I don't care what fictions you tell yourself to try and obfuscate the nature of the baby in the womb, but I have no interest in your arbitrary distinctions you create to try and justify ending a human life.  And, since I quoted you calling someone else names in my original response, I can factually label you a lying hypocrite as well.  Of course, this surprises no one who has read anything you've written...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 07, 2022, 11:48:40 PM
You know, its hard for a woman to get pregnant if a man nuts in her mouth or her ass.
Just sayin'.

That what you do with your significant other?

You mean you don't? Aren't you concerned about getting her pregnant?

Oh, right. You two just choose for her to go get an abortion.....

My wife has never had an abortion. As usual, you read what you want to read into anything I write.

Now, I asked you a question. Should I ask your significant other if you refuse to answer, given it was what you were telling others to do?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on May 08, 2022, 12:11:02 AM
You know, its hard for a woman to get pregnant if a man nuts in her mouth or her ass.
Just sayin'.

That what you do with your significant other?

You mean you don't? Aren't you concerned about getting her pregnant?

Oh, right. You two just choose for her to go get an abortion.....

My wife has never had an abortion. As usual, you read what you want to read into anything I write.

Now, I asked you a question. Should I ask your significant other if you refuse to answer, given it was what you were telling others to do?
Very open minded of you to not assume Jeff's SO is a woman...

OTOH, Jeff seemed to be asking you: You mean you don't? Aren't you concerned about getting her pregnant? That makes me wonder why Jeff thinks you are nutting in his SO. Perhaps it happens so often from so many men that he's lost track?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on May 08, 2022, 12:21:26 AM
You know, its hard for a woman to get pregnant if a man nuts in her mouth or her ass.
Just sayin'.

That what you do with your significant other?

You mean you don't? Aren't you concerned about getting her pregnant?

Oh, right. You two just choose for her to go get an abortion.....

My wife has never had an abortion. As usual, you read what you want to read into anything I write.

Now, I asked you a question. Should I ask your significant other if you refuse to answer, given it was what you were telling others to do?

If you're feelin' froggy, by all means jump.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 08, 2022, 12:23:14 AM
You know, its hard for a woman to get pregnant if a man nuts in her mouth or her ass.
Just sayin'.

That what you do with your significant other?

You mean you don't? Aren't you concerned about getting her pregnant?

Oh, right. You two just choose for her to go get an abortion.....

My wife has never had an abortion. As usual, you read what you want to read into anything I write.

Now, I asked you a question. Should I ask your significant other if you refuse to answer, given it was what you were telling others to do?

If you're feelin' froggy, by all means jump.

Naw, I wouldn't invade your privacy like that. What you do in the privacy of your own home with your wife is none of my fucking business.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on May 08, 2022, 12:29:29 AM
You know, its hard for a woman to get pregnant if a man nuts in her mouth or her ass.
Just sayin'.

That what you do with your significant other?

You mean you don't? Aren't you concerned about getting her pregnant?

Oh, right. You two just choose for her to go get an abortion.....

My wife has never had an abortion. As usual, you read what you want to read into anything I write.

Now, I asked you a question. Should I ask your significant other if you refuse to answer, given it was what you were telling others to do?
Very open minded of you to not assume Jeff's SO is a woman...

OTOH, Jeff seemed to be asking you: You mean you don't? Aren't you concerned about getting her pregnant? That makes me wonder why Jeff thinks you are nutting in his SO. Perhaps it happens so often from so many men that he's lost track?

Yes! My God, it feels so good that the secret is out and I do not have to bear that burden anymore!

Thank you, HappyDaze! I had thought that you were just another typing shitbird here, but indeed you are a Cardinal after eliciting my confession of the tawdry state of my relationship. Many have nutted in my SO and I just collect the money (Daddy wants a vacation in a balkanized Hellscape full of HBO sets and potatoes).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on May 08, 2022, 12:30:37 AM
You know, its hard for a woman to get pregnant if a man nuts in her mouth or her ass.
Just sayin'.

That what you do with your significant other?

You mean you don't? Aren't you concerned about getting her pregnant?

Oh, right. You two just choose for her to go get an abortion.....

My wife has never had an abortion. As usual, you read what you want to read into anything I write.

Now, I asked you a question. Should I ask your significant other if you refuse to answer, given it was what you were telling others to do?

If you're feelin' froggy, by all means jump.

Naw, I wouldn't invade your privacy like that. What you do in the privacy of your own home with your wife is none of my fucking business.

Chicken!

Bawk! Bawk! Bawk!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on May 08, 2022, 12:33:39 AM
I'm not interested in your "beliefs" (talk about pushing your morality on others).  Is a zygote alive?  Every biologist will agree a zygote is alive.  What kind of life is it?  Is it a cat?  A dog?  A mongoose? It is a human.  Every cell contains DNA that establishes that the creature is human.  So I don't care what fictions you tell yourself to try and obfuscate the nature of the baby in the womb, but I have no interest in your arbitrary distinctions you create to try and justify ending a human life.

I do not think that the distinction of a single cell with a thinking human being is arbitrary. In the balkanization thread, I had  previously explained (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/it-s-time-for-the-usa-to-balkanize-how-can-that-happen-peacefully/msg1215394/#msg1215394) my views.

For the vast majority of people, what we consider to be a person and what we consider murder has to do with the thoughts and feelings of that entity. In stories with aliens or other non-human sentient beings, it is still considered morally wrong to kill them as long as they have thoughts and feelings similar to ours. In the real world, we allow patients to be laid to rest if they unquestionably are brain dead (i.e. no longer have any thoughts or feelings).

I'd also note that in vitro fertilization (IVF) typically produces 15 embryos for each child born, with around half of those being destroyed unused. I think this is vastly different than having 15 children brought to term and killing off all but one - and even abortion opponents tend not to push for making IVF illegal. There are also frequent human cell cultures used in research - some made by fertilization, some by cloning, and some by natural replication.

If someone has a religious beliefs on the subject, I could sympathize - but objectively I think it's clear that there are non-arbitrary criteria that distinguish killing a single cell like a zygote and killing a thinking human being with a brain. Most especially, the wide philosophy of most people is that what makes a person a person is their thoughts and feelings.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yancy on May 08, 2022, 12:40:05 AM
You know, its hard for a woman to get pregnant if a man nuts in her mouth or her ass.
Just sayin'.

That what you do with your significant other?

You mean you don't? Aren't you concerned about getting her pregnant?

Oh, right. You two just choose for her to go get an abortion.....

My wife has never had an abortion. As usual, you read what you want to read into anything I write.

Now, I asked you a question. Should I ask your significant other if you refuse to answer, given it was what you were telling others to do?
Very open minded of you to not assume Jeff's SO is a woman...

OTOH, Jeff seemed to be asking you: You mean you don't? Aren't you concerned about getting her pregnant? That makes me wonder why Jeff thinks you are nutting in his SO. Perhaps it happens so often from so many men that he's lost track?

So you're sort of suggesting this guy is a fag, and at the same time saying that this other guy is fucking the first guy's girlfriend, or boyfriend? Let's say it's a girlfriend, since the context was abortion.

This is the type of overly convoluted insult you have to be in 9th grade to attempt with conviction, and it'll flop, and probably you'll learn not to try similar ones in the future.

Not sure what it portends when a 40 year old tries to pull it off and still flops.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on May 08, 2022, 12:55:39 AM
You know, its hard for a woman to get pregnant if a man nuts in her mouth or her ass.
Just sayin'.

That what you do with your significant other?

You mean you don't? Aren't you concerned about getting her pregnant?

Oh, right. You two just choose for her to go get an abortion.....

My wife has never had an abortion. As usual, you read what you want to read into anything I write.

Now, I asked you a question. Should I ask your significant other if you refuse to answer, given it was what you were telling others to do?
Very open minded of you to not assume Jeff's SO is a woman...

OTOH, Jeff seemed to be asking you: You mean you don't? Aren't you concerned about getting her pregnant? That makes me wonder why Jeff thinks you are nutting in his SO. Perhaps it happens so often from so many men that he's lost track?

So you're sort of suggesting this guy is a fag, and at the same time saying that this other guy is fucking the first guy's girlfriend, or boyfriend? Let's say it's a girlfriend, since the context was abortion.

This is the type of overly convoluted insult you have to be in 9th grade to attempt with conviction, and it'll flop, and probably you'll learn not to try similar ones in the future.

Not sure what it portends when a 40 year old tries to pull it off and still flops.
Don't worry, yancy, it sounds like Jeff will let you have a go at her too if you've got the money.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 08, 2022, 01:00:39 AM
You know, its hard for a woman to get pregnant if a man nuts in her mouth or her ass.
Just sayin'.

That what you do with your significant other?

You mean you don't? Aren't you concerned about getting her pregnant?

Oh, right. You two just choose for her to go get an abortion.....

My wife has never had an abortion. As usual, you read what you want to read into anything I write.

Now, I asked you a question. Should I ask your significant other if you refuse to answer, given it was what you were telling others to do?

If you're feelin' froggy, by all means jump.

Naw, I wouldn't invade your privacy like that. What you do in the privacy of your own home with your wife is none of my fucking business.

Chicken!

Bawk! Bawk! Bawk!

No chicken here. It's not like I couldn't contact your spouse. But I wouldn't do that to you, or her. I am sure she's a lovely woman, and you're a lucky man to have her, and it really honestly is none of my business and would be totally inappropriate to be saying anything to your wife about a stupid message board dare. I mean when it comes down to it, I am an adult and not a child, and so are you. I feel pretty confident neither of us would stoop that low.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yancy on May 08, 2022, 01:12:26 AM
No chicken here. It's not like I couldn't contact your spouse.

Jesus Christ, are you going to send Antifa operatives to their house to 'protest' too?

Nice not-so-veiled threat there. Why don't you threaten to contact my spouse while you're at it? You know what she'll say to you?

Well of course she'll say


HEY HEY, HO HO, ROE V WADE HAS GOT TO GO!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 08, 2022, 01:25:41 AM
No chicken here. It's not like I couldn't contact your spouse.

Jesus Christ, are you going to send Antifa operatives to their house to 'protest' too?

Wow you REALLY don't know me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yancy on May 08, 2022, 01:47:44 AM
Wow you REALLY don't know me.

Didn't before but I do now.

Before, I thought you were just an annoying twerp who posted long, boring, stupid vacation blogs on the internet, however, it turns out........


SPOILER (Hover over section below to view.)

[/b]you're also a nasty pussy who delivers vague threats about contacting people's families on the internet, because someone called you a name
[/b]

Is there anything else I need to know here? Do you want to expand on this? Do you have anything to add? Am I now sufficiently informed as to the exact nature of your personality?


Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on May 08, 2022, 02:03:16 AM
Greetings!

Geesus, how the fuck did we get to the point of contacting member's spouses or family members, and who lets strangers fuck their wives? Come on, people. Last time I knew, there weren't any admitted *Swingers* here. Nor has it been the custom, habit, or ever considered appropriate to make any kind of threats towards someone's spouses or family. Veiled or otherwise.

Broad, hate-filled proclamations against large, generic populations are fine, but no one should get personal with individual member's family members. It helps for people to maintain a good sense of humour, too.

Come on, people. Remember our standards.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 08, 2022, 02:26:43 AM
Wow you REALLY don't know me.

Didn't before but I do now.

Before, I thought you were just an annoying twerp who posted long, boring, stupid vacation blogs on the internet, however, it turns out........


SPOILER (Hover over section below to view.)

[/b]you're also a nasty pussy who delivers vague threats about contacting people's families on the internet, because someone called you a name
[/b]

Is there anything else I need to know here? Do you want to expand on this? Do you have anything to add? Am I now sufficiently informed as to the exact nature of your personality?

LOL that you thought I supported Antifa.

And I was not threatening Jeff in any way. I very seriously doubt Jeff felt threatened by me in any way either. We might not get along, but we've known each other online for over a decade, and we both know the other would never do something like that. Our way is to sling insults online. Not fuck with each others actual lives.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yancy on May 08, 2022, 02:34:38 AM
Wow you REALLY don't know me.

Didn't before but I do now.

Before, I thought you were just an annoying twerp who posted long, boring, stupid vacation blogs on the internet, however, it turns out........


SPOILER (Hover over section below to view.)

[/b]you're also a nasty pussy who delivers vague threats about contacting people's families on the internet, because someone called you a name
[/b]

Is there anything else I need to know here? Do you want to expand on this? Do you have anything to add? Am I now sufficiently informed as to the exact nature of your personality?
I very seriously doubt Jeff felt threatened by me

Oh, I'm 100% sure you're right there, but I still read what you wrote, and it was relatively unambiguous.

No chicken here. It's not like I couldn't contact your spouse. But I wouldn't do that to you, or her. I am sure she's a lovely woman, and you're a lucky man to have her

I'm willing to give you some benefit of the doubt here, but the only way I can think of that explains how you would not see your words here as creepy, and threatening, is if you're genuinely retarded and/or autistic. Is that the case?

If that's what it is, than I apologize for misunderstanding things, and I won't argue with you or call you names any more, either.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on May 08, 2022, 05:47:06 AM
Wow you REALLY don't know me.

Didn't before but I do now.

Before, I thought you were just an annoying twerp who posted long, boring, stupid vacation blogs on the internet, however, it turns out........


SPOILER (Hover over section below to view.)

[/b]you're also a nasty pussy who delivers vague threats about contacting people's families on the internet, because someone called you a name
[/b]

Is there anything else I need to know here? Do you want to expand on this? Do you have anything to add? Am I now sufficiently informed as to the exact nature of your personality?

LOL that you thought I supported Antifa.

And I was not threatening Jeff in any way. I very seriously doubt Jeff felt threatened by me in any way either. We might not get along, but we've known each other online for over a decade, and we both know the other would never do something like that. Our way is to sling insults online. Not fuck with each others actual lives.

No, you were threatening me. That's how I took it.

You want people to believe that you are adult and reasonable, but you really aren't.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 08, 2022, 11:23:26 AM
Wow you REALLY don't know me.

Didn't before but I do now.

Before, I thought you were just an annoying twerp who posted long, boring, stupid vacation blogs on the internet, however, it turns out........


SPOILER (Hover over section below to view.)

[/b]you're also a nasty pussy who delivers vague threats about contacting people's families on the internet, because someone called you a name
[/b]

Is there anything else I need to know here? Do you want to expand on this? Do you have anything to add? Am I now sufficiently informed as to the exact nature of your personality?

LOL that you thought I supported Antifa.

And I was not threatening Jeff in any way. I very seriously doubt Jeff felt threatened by me in any way either. We might not get along, but we've known each other online for over a decade, and we both know the other would never do something like that. Our way is to sling insults online. Not fuck with each others actual lives.

No, you were threatening me. That's how I took it.

You want people to believe that you are adult and reasonable, but you really aren't.

OK Jeff. Sorry I made you feel that way. It was not my intent.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on May 08, 2022, 11:50:20 AM
Greetings!

Geesus, how the fuck did we get to the point of contacting member's spouses or family members, and who lets strangers fuck their wives? Come on, people. Last time I knew, there weren't any admitted *Swingers* here. Nor has it been the custom, habit, or ever considered appropriate to make any kind of threats towards someone's spouses or family. Veiled or otherwise.

Broad, hate-filled proclamations against large, generic populations are fine, but no one should get personal with individual member's family members. It helps for people to maintain a good sense of humour, too.

Come on, people. Remember our standards.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Is SHARK tapping the X Card?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 08, 2022, 01:23:05 PM
No, but he's probably tapping your wife, Happyderp.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on May 08, 2022, 02:29:25 PM
No, but he's probably tapping your wife, Happyderp.
Nah, he's far more likely to try buggering the kids. Just like you, groomer.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on May 08, 2022, 06:11:57 PM
Greetings!

Geesus, how the fuck did we get to the point of contacting member's spouses or family members, and who lets strangers fuck their wives? Come on, people. Last time I knew, there weren't any admitted *Swingers* here. Nor has it been the custom, habit, or ever considered appropriate to make any kind of threats towards someone's spouses or family. Veiled or otherwise.

Broad, hate-filled proclamations against large, generic populations are fine, but no one should get personal with individual member's family members. It helps for people to maintain a good sense of humour, too.

Come on, people. Remember our standards.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Is SHARK tapping the X Card?

Its probably just a fair warning but I guess Mistwell can let us know if he gets back.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on May 08, 2022, 10:35:44 PM
No, but he's probably tapping your wife, Happyderp.

I laughed
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bunch on May 14, 2022, 07:22:30 PM
Two mods have been banned over on TBP in the last week or so.  That's different.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on May 14, 2022, 08:23:36 PM
Two mods have been banned over on TBP in the last week or so.  That's different.

Well, it’s a start.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on May 14, 2022, 09:29:48 PM
Two mods have been banned over on TBP in the last week or so.  That's different.
I don’t know if that is actual progress. The mod I saw catching a ban looked like a case of the Woke vice getting turned tighter and tighter to where they’re targeting their own. Which is to be expected.

The latest ban I saw was for KaijuGooGoo making the observation that generally speaking people are less racist than they were 65 years ago. For noting that progress had been made since 1957, not at all arguing that racism doesn’t exist, Q99 handed out a 2-day ban.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 14, 2022, 11:10:44 PM
Two mods have been banned over on TBP in the last week or so.  That's different.
Who's the other? Arethusa ate a one day, which really isn't much of a ban to be honest.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bunch on May 14, 2022, 11:22:13 PM
Two mods have been banned over on TBP in the last week or so.  That's different.
Who's the other? Arethusa ate a one day, which really isn't much of a ban to be honest.
KaijuGooGoo

I'm more curious what happened backstage.  Years ago when asked do mods ban just on their own judgement I recall the answer being there were always multiple people discussing it backstage before a ban was handed down.  A one off mod ban I can see as just everyone has an off day.  Two in short order seems like some folks aren't getting along as well as they may have in the past.   Could still just be coincidence but I would think mod bans get a little more discussion and notice by other mods reminding everyone to be on best behavior.
Maybe they don't. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 15, 2022, 05:28:34 AM
Two mods have been banned over on TBP in the last week or so.  That's different.
Who's the other? Arethusa ate a one day, which really isn't much of a ban to be honest.
KaijuGooGoo

I'm more curious what happened backstage.  Years ago when asked do mods ban just on their own judgement I recall the answer being there were always multiple people discussing it backstage before a ban was handed down.  A one off mod ban I can see as just everyone has an off day.  Two in short order seems like some folks aren't getting along as well as they may have in the past.   Could still just be coincidence but I would think mod bans get a little more discussion and notice by other mods reminding everyone to be on best behavior.
Maybe they don't.

"Ungoliant herself eventually disappeared from history, but her final fate is not precisely known; it is said that she went into the forgotten south of the world shortly before the First Age, and some have said that she eventually let her ever growing hunger overcome her and devoured herself at last."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 15, 2022, 08:31:24 AM
Two mods have been banned over on TBP in the last week or so.  That's different.
Who's the other? Arethusa ate a one day, which really isn't much of a ban to be honest.
KaijuGooGoo

I'm more curious what happened backstage.  Years ago when asked do mods ban just on their own judgement I recall the answer being there were always multiple people discussing it backstage before a ban was handed down.  A one off mod ban I can see as just everyone has an off day.  Two in short order seems like some folks aren't getting along as well as they may have in the past.   Could still just be coincidence but I would think mod bans get a little more discussion and notice by other mods reminding everyone to be on best behavior.
Maybe they don't.
Not a mod. Validated user, but not a mod.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bunch on May 15, 2022, 08:46:44 AM
Two mods have been banned over on TBP in the last week or so.  That's different.
Who's the other? Arethusa ate a one day, which really isn't much of a ban to be honest.
KaijuGooGoo

I'm more curious what happened backstage.  Years ago when asked do mods ban just on their own judgement I recall the answer being there were always multiple people discussing it backstage before a ban was handed down.  A one off mod ban I can see as just everyone has an off day.  Two in short order seems like some folks aren't getting along as well as they may have in the past.   Could still just be coincidence but I would think mod bans get a little more discussion and notice by other mods reminding everyone to be on best behavior.
Maybe they don't.
Not a mod. Validated user, but not a mod.

My mistake.  Although I swear that user was a mod at one point.

EDIT- Nope. I'm wrong. Not ever a  mod and history of infractions at least for the last couple years
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on May 15, 2022, 09:01:04 AM
Two mods have been banned over on TBP in the last week or so.  That's different.
I don’t know if that is actual progress. The mod I saw catching a ban looked like a case of the Woke vice getting turned tighter and tighter to where they’re targeting their own. Which is to be expected.

The latest ban I saw was for KaijuGooGoo making the observation that generally speaking people are less racist than they were 65 years ago. For noting that progress had been made since 1957, not at all arguing that racism doesn’t exist, Q99 handed out a 2-day ban.

That’s what Steven Pinker calls “progressophobia”.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on May 15, 2022, 11:34:41 AM
Two mods have been banned over on TBP in the last week or so.  That's different.
I don’t know if that is actual progress. The mod I saw catching a ban looked like a case of the Woke vice getting turned tighter and tighter to where they’re targeting their own. Which is to be expected.

The latest ban I saw was for KaijuGooGoo making the observation that generally speaking people are less racist than they were 65 years ago. For noting that progress had been made since 1957, not at all arguing that racism doesn’t exist, Q99 handed out a 2-day ban.

That’s what Steven Pinker calls “progressophobia”.
That’s not a bad term for it. Ironic that people who call themselves progressive have to deny that progress has been made at all on any topic they care about. The denial of any progress being made eventually can lead one to think progress is impossible, and if progress is impossible I guess one might as well eventually become some kind of conservative.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 15, 2022, 07:56:12 PM
Two mods have been banned over on TBP in the last week or so.  That's different.
Who's the other? Arethusa ate a one day, which really isn't much of a ban to be honest.
KaijuGooGoo

I'm more curious what happened backstage.  Years ago when asked do mods ban just on their own judgement I recall the answer being there were always multiple people discussing it backstage before a ban was handed down.  A one off mod ban I can see as just everyone has an off day.  Two in short order seems like some folks aren't getting along as well as they may have in the past.   Could still just be coincidence but I would think mod bans get a little more discussion and notice by other mods reminding everyone to be on best behavior.
Maybe they don't.
Not a mod. Validated user, but not a mod.

My mistake.  Although I swear that user was a mod at one point.

EDIT- Nope. I'm wrong. Not ever a  mod and history of infractions at least for the last couple years
No harm done. You probably saw him popping up in infractions and got him mixed up.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 19, 2022, 09:33:49 AM
These people are fucking incompetents.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/a-friend-is-having-trouble-with-their-account.897344/

But then, is anyone really surprised?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on May 20, 2022, 05:20:18 PM
Reported a year prior even. Takes away from punishing wrong think?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abraxus on May 20, 2022, 11:02:11 PM
If they put as much effort in making sure to run Orwellian, regressive and repressive website, as they do their tech issues they would have none or very little.

Can’t have anything pulling them away from making sure that no one posts anything remotely positive about the police.

If I am not mistaken someone told pundits about a tech issue on the site and it was fixed within hours.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 31, 2022, 08:33:11 AM
You saw it here, folks: TBP's official stance on police is 'ACAB'.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/acab-did-i-miss-a-ruling.897690/

Now, particularly in light of the Uvalde police department's response to the school shooting there, I can understand a certain amount of vitriol.

But once again, TBP mods are ALL about the fee-fees, not the nuance or the facts.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 31, 2022, 07:40:02 PM
What member of the Uvalde police department wants to risk life in jail for shooting a school shooter? After George Floyd I'm surprised any cops are still willing to stay on the force at all.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on May 31, 2022, 07:50:34 PM
What member of the Uvalde police department wants to risk life in jail for shooting a school shooter? After George Floyd I'm surprised any cops are still willing to stay on the force at all.
Do you have an example of a cop facing charges for firing on an active shooter, or is this just more of your usual absurdium?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on May 31, 2022, 08:01:52 PM
What member of the Uvalde police department wants to risk life in jail for shooting a school shooter? After George Floyd I'm surprised any cops are still willing to stay on the force at all.
Do you have an example of a cop facing charges for firing on an active shooter, or is this just more of your usual absurdium?

How about the Rayshard Brooks Killing?

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/05/993842478/fired-atlanta-officer-who-shot-rayshard-brooks-reinstated-due-to-personnel-rules (https://www.npr.org/2021/05/05/993842478/fired-atlanta-officer-who-shot-rayshard-brooks-reinstated-due-to-personnel-rules)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on May 31, 2022, 08:10:41 PM
What member of the Uvalde police department wants to risk life in jail for shooting a school shooter? After George Floyd I'm surprised any cops are still willing to stay on the force at all.
Do you have an example of a cop facing charges for firing on an active shooter, or is this just more of your usual absurdium?

How about the Rayshard Brooks Killing?

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/05/993842478/fired-atlanta-officer-who-shot-rayshard-brooks-reinstated-due-to-personnel-rules (https://www.npr.org/2021/05/05/993842478/fired-atlanta-officer-who-shot-rayshard-brooks-reinstated-due-to-personnel-rules)
Was Rayshard Brooks an active shooter (or, as Ratman_tf specified, a school shooter)? Looking over your article, it sure seems that he was not.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on May 31, 2022, 08:15:35 PM
What member of the Uvalde police department wants to risk life in jail for shooting a school shooter? After George Floyd I'm surprised any cops are still willing to stay on the force at all.
Do you have an example of a cop facing charges for firing on an active shooter, or is this just more of your usual absurdium?

How about the Rayshard Brooks Killing?

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/05/993842478/fired-atlanta-officer-who-shot-rayshard-brooks-reinstated-due-to-personnel-rules (https://www.npr.org/2021/05/05/993842478/fired-atlanta-officer-who-shot-rayshard-brooks-reinstated-due-to-personnel-rules)
Was Rayshard Brooks an active shooter (or, as Ratman_tf specified, a school shooter)? Looking over your article, it sure seems that he was not.

I guess it depends if you consider a Taser gun to be a gun.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on May 31, 2022, 08:51:08 PM
What member of the Uvalde police department wants to risk life in jail for shooting a school shooter? After George Floyd I'm surprised any cops are still willing to stay on the force at all.
Do you have an example of a cop facing charges for firing on an active shooter, or is this just more of your usual absurdium?

How about the Rayshard Brooks Killing?

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/05/993842478/fired-atlanta-officer-who-shot-rayshard-brooks-reinstated-due-to-personnel-rules (https://www.npr.org/2021/05/05/993842478/fired-atlanta-officer-who-shot-rayshard-brooks-reinstated-due-to-personnel-rules)
Was Rayshard Brooks an active shooter (or, as Ratman_tf specified, a school shooter)? Looking over your article, it sure seems that he was not.

I guess it depends if you consider a Taser gun to be a gun.

  Well, considering Atlanta had just suspended and fired cops a few weeks before for tasing people and called a taser a deadly weapon....it does cause a bit of mental gymnastics.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 31, 2022, 08:52:34 PM
What member of the Uvalde police department wants to risk life in jail for shooting a school shooter? After George Floyd I'm surprised any cops are still willing to stay on the force at all.
Do you have an example of a cop facing charges for firing on an active shooter, or is this just more of your usual absurdium?

How about the Rayshard Brooks Killing?

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/05/993842478/fired-atlanta-officer-who-shot-rayshard-brooks-reinstated-due-to-personnel-rules (https://www.npr.org/2021/05/05/993842478/fired-atlanta-officer-who-shot-rayshard-brooks-reinstated-due-to-personnel-rules)
Was Rayshard Brooks an active shooter (or, as Ratman_tf specified, a school shooter)? Looking over your article, it sure seems that he was not.

I guess it depends if you consider a Taser gun to be a gun.
If I'm not mistaken, Georgia law specifically classifies Taser use as 'deadly force'.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on May 31, 2022, 11:55:17 PM
Looking over your article, it sure seems that he was not.

Looking over my article it says:

Quote
Footage captured by police body cameras, Wendy's security cameras and bystanders showed Brooks resisted arrest but was running away from the officers when he was shot. In the scuffle, he grabbed an officer's Taser, then ran away. Rolfe chased him with his own Taser drawn. Still running, Brooks tried to fire the Taser back toward Rolfe. Rolfe then drew his handgun and fired three shots, two of them striking Brooks.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on June 01, 2022, 10:42:39 AM
Looking over your article, it sure seems that he was not.

Looking over my article it says:

Quote
Footage captured by police body cameras, Wendy's security cameras and bystanders showed Brooks resisted arrest but was running away from the officers when he was shot. In the scuffle, he grabbed an officer's Taser, then ran away. Rolfe chased him with his own Taser drawn. Still running, Brooks tried to fire the Taser back toward Rolfe. Rolfe then drew his handgun and fired three shots, two of them striking Brooks.
The cops were not arriving to an active shooter incident. It didn't devolve into what it became until after they fumbled their intervention. That's quite distinct from the active/school shooter events being discussed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rgalex on June 01, 2022, 12:12:55 PM
What member of the Uvalde police department wants to risk life in jail for shooting a school shooter? After George Floyd I'm surprised any cops are still willing to stay on the force at all.
Do you have an example of a cop facing charges for firing on an active shooter, or is this just more of your usual absurdium?
Nicholas Reardon was investigated for shooting and killing Ma'Khia Bryant.  Bryant was in the process of attacking another teen with a knife when Reardon showed up.

The county coroner declared the death a homicide.  It was sent to a grand jury which declined to charge Reardon and later deemed the situation a justifiable homicide.

Not an active shooter incident, but this is the closest I can think of in recent history. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on June 01, 2022, 01:32:53 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Georgia law specifically classifies Taser use as 'deadly force'.

By this criteria, Rolfe threatened Brooks with deadly force by drawing his taser on Brooks when Brooks was unarmed and had done nothing but be drunk.

Also, Rolfe hasn't been indicted of anything and remains on the police department - so I don't think this demonstrates that police are afraid of being jailed for life for shooting a school shooter.

Further, while Brooks did try the taser twice in his attempt to escape, the taser was then empty - so he was once again unarmed and just trying to run away at the time when he was shot. I think there's a huge difference between firing on someone who is threatening with a loaded firearm, and someone running away with an unloaded taser.

In the case of Ma'Khia Bryant, she was in the process of stabbing at someone with a knife - so use of force was more understandable. In the case of Brooks, he had an unloaded weapon and was just running away.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 01, 2022, 01:38:28 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Georgia law specifically classifies Taser use as 'deadly force'.

By this criteria, Rolfe threatened Brooks with deadly force by drawing his taser on Brooks when Brooks was unarmed and had done nothing but be drunk.

Also, Rolfe hasn't been indicted of anything and remains on the police department - so I don't think this demonstrates that police are afraid of being jailed for life for shooting a school shooter.

Further, while Brooks did try the taser twice in his attempt to escape, the taser was then empty - so he was once again unarmed and just trying to run away at the time when he was shot. I think there's a huge difference between firing on someone who is threatening with a loaded firearm, and someone running away with an unloaded taser.

In the case of Ma'Khia Bryant, she was in the process of stabbing at someone with a knife - so use of force was more understandable. In the case of Brooks, he had an unloaded weapon and was just running away.

Oh my, so now anyone can shoot at a police officer if he draws his weapon first? Is this really what you want? Because it's what follows from your logic. So a police officer can't even draw his weapon until AFTER the suspect has done so (and probably fired at them).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 01, 2022, 03:30:43 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Georgia law specifically classifies Taser use as 'deadly force'.

By this criteria, Rolfe threatened Brooks with deadly force by drawing his taser on Brooks when Brooks was unarmed and had done nothing but be drunk.

Also, Rolfe hasn't been indicted of anything and remains on the police department - so I don't think this demonstrates that police are afraid of being jailed for life for shooting a school shooter.

Further, while Brooks did try the taser twice in his attempt to escape, the taser was then empty - so he was once again unarmed and just trying to run away at the time when he was shot. I think there's a huge difference between firing on someone who is threatening with a loaded firearm, and someone running away with an unloaded taser.

In the case of Ma'Khia Bryant, she was in the process of stabbing at someone with a knife - so use of force was more understandable. In the case of Brooks, he had an unloaded weapon and was just running away.

  Do you know if a gun pointed at you is loaded or not?  Especially in the heat of the moment?  Rolfe was fired and immediately charged.  He was since rehired and they did not push the charges once a DA with a touch of common sense got elected.  He was running away WHILE FIRING the Taser.  You are telling a huge lie by omission to say he was running away with an unloaded Taser. 

   Just being charged for a righteous shoot has in fact had a massive effect on police departments all over the country.  Many are 33 percent undermanned, and that is with them cooking the books and including people enrolled in BLET and their academies as full time officers.  I do not know if it had an effect on the dumbasses in Texas, but I do know it has had an effect on every department in the country, so...... dunno.  The effect IMO though, was the sort of cops who were going to go into a situation like that kid shooting up a school have already resigned and retired early, or moved to other careers.  So the effect was the people willing to do something are gone.  The sort that stand around outside were just doing what they always do in a crisis,  nothing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on June 01, 2022, 04:57:51 PM
Looking over your article, it sure seems that he was not.

Looking over my article it says:

Quote
Footage captured by police body cameras, Wendy's security cameras and bystanders showed Brooks resisted arrest but was running away from the officers when he was shot. In the scuffle, he grabbed an officer's Taser, then ran away. Rolfe chased him with his own Taser drawn. Still running, Brooks tried to fire the Taser back toward Rolfe. Rolfe then drew his handgun and fired three shots, two of them striking Brooks.
The cops were not arriving to an active shooter incident. It didn't devolve into what it became until after they fumbled their intervention. That's quite distinct from the active/school shooter events being discussed.

Where did those goal posts go?  They were around here somewhere.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on June 01, 2022, 06:24:06 PM
Looking over your article, it sure seems that he was not.

Looking over my article it says:

Quote
Footage captured by police body cameras, Wendy's security cameras and bystanders showed Brooks resisted arrest but was running away from the officers when he was shot. In the scuffle, he grabbed an officer's Taser, then ran away. Rolfe chased him with his own Taser drawn. Still running, Brooks tried to fire the Taser back toward Rolfe. Rolfe then drew his handgun and fired three shots, two of them striking Brooks.
The cops were not arriving to an active shooter incident. It didn't devolve into what it became until after they fumbled their intervention. That's quite distinct from the active/school shooter events being discussed.

Where did those goal posts go?  They were around here somewhere.
The goal posts were set at "cops responding to a school shooter" and I did broaden that into an active shooter event (which would include things like the guy that killed 10 people at a shopping cebter). You then decided that meant something else entirely by throwing down pretty much anything involving a cop shooting someone. So, if anyone's running with the goalposts,  it's you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on June 01, 2022, 06:27:00 PM
Looking over your article, it sure seems that he was not.

Looking over my article it says:

Quote
Footage captured by police body cameras, Wendy's security cameras and bystanders showed Brooks resisted arrest but was running away from the officers when he was shot. In the scuffle, he grabbed an officer's Taser, then ran away. Rolfe chased him with his own Taser drawn. Still running, Brooks tried to fire the Taser back toward Rolfe. Rolfe then drew his handgun and fired three shots, two of them striking Brooks.
The cops were not arriving to an active shooter incident. It didn't devolve into what it became until after they fumbled their intervention. That's quite distinct from the active/school shooter events being discussed.

Where did those goal posts go?  They were around here somewhere.
The goal posts were set at "cops responding to a school shooter" and I did broaden that into an active shooter event (which would include things like the guy that killed 10 people at a shopping cebter). You then decided that meant something else entirely by throwing down pretty much anything involving a cop shooting someone. So, if anyone's running with the goalposts,  it's you.

We are men of action, lies do not become us
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 01, 2022, 06:32:27 PM
According to the F.B.I., “an active shooter is an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area.”   That is a pretty broad definition.  Granted not the one the press pretends is the definition, but the one the FBI uses seems pretty broad.   

   That said, I do not think any of the shitbags standing around outside the school in Texas were worried about being fired or charged for engaging the assailant.  I think they are chicken shit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 01, 2022, 07:38:42 PM
According to the F.B.I., “an active shooter is an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area.”   
So FBI agents responding to an active shooter event... are themselves active shooters.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 02, 2022, 08:16:12 AM
TBP is all in a tizzy over the Depp-Heard verdict (which pretty much went in Depp's favor; she managed to wring out one counterclaim of defamation, which was bullshit in my opinion; but he still swept the board with his charges).

They're accusing him of hiring botnets to sway public opinion in his favor, which is kind of hilarious. Projection, it's a thing.

One schmuck ate a three-day and threadban for not hewing to #believeallwomen: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/bashful82-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-and-threadban-not-abiding-by-the-rules-of-the-thread-and-sexism.897910/

Which may be extended, of course, if they can scrape together enough wrongthink from their prior posts to justify it. Never change, TBP. Lulz.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 02, 2022, 03:04:36 PM
TBP is all in a tizzy over the Depp-Heard verdict (which pretty much went in Depp's favor; she managed to wring out one counterclaim of defamation, which was bullshit in my opinion; but he still swept the board with his charges).

They're accusing him of hiring botnets to sway public opinion in his favor, which is kind of hilarious. Projection, it's a thing.

One schmuck ate a three-day and threadban for not hewing to #believeallwomen: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/bashful82-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-and-threadban-not-abiding-by-the-rules-of-the-thread-and-sexism.897910/

Which may be extended, of course, if they can scrape together enough wrongthink from their prior posts to justify it. Never change, TBP. Lulz.

I'm disgusted at other people's personal lives being paraded for popular amusement.
But if anything good came out of the Depp/Heard trial, it's to demonstrate for those who didn't realize it, that cute chicks can be fucking awful, abusive people.
And those cute chicks know that being a cute chick often gets them a pass for their rotten behavior.

The impetus for me to finally leave RPG.net  (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/an-essay-about-the-board-rules-and-feminism-from-the-wyzard.753572/page-11#post-18898928)was their thread about feminsm and social justice and all that. And here we are, where facts and truth don't matter, because a whamen said something.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abraxus on June 03, 2022, 11:07:44 AM
Are we really surprised that the massive circle Jerk that is the big purple is having a. Meltdown at Johnny Depo winning.


It’s such a massive echo chamber that reality has no place. To be fair both people are terrible people. To imply that Heard is innocent is a huge exercise in mental gymnastics.

So let the mentally immature Wokescolds clutch their pearls over at the big purple it’s a great start to the weekend.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 03, 2022, 12:09:49 PM
I had a good chuckle at this.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/discussing-osr-problems.897962/

Because Zeea is full of shit here. Not about some people being scum, but her insistence on how presentation matters. It doesn't, because no matter how 'clear' your post is, if someone misinterprets it (willfully or not), then the onus is still on the poster, not the reader.

Zeea is literally luring this poor fool into a trap. Classy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 03, 2022, 03:27:29 PM
I had a good chuckle at this.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/discussing-osr-problems.897962/

Because Zeea is full of shit here. Not about some people being scum, but her insistence on how presentation matters. It doesn't, because no matter how 'clear' your post is, if someone misinterprets it (willfully or not), then the onus is still on the poster, not the reader.

Zeea is literally luring this poor fool into a trap. Classy.

Eh on that would I agree with them. It IS better to phrase things as not a hasty generalization. Even if the listener reads it as a generalization, putting in the effort to make it clear you don't mean everyone is helpful for some others I think. Just treating individuals as individuals and not as some monolithic group in the way you write helps you think about the world as not sub-human vs human based on what group you affiliated them with in your mind.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 03, 2022, 06:24:57 PM
I had a good chuckle at this.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/discussing-osr-problems.897962/

Because Zeea is full of shit here. Not about some people being scum, but her insistence on how presentation matters. It doesn't, because no matter how 'clear' your post is, if someone misinterprets it (willfully or not), then the onus is still on the poster, not the reader.

Zeea is literally luring this poor fool into a trap. Classy.

Eh on that would I agree with them. It IS better to phrase things as not a hasty generalization. Even if the listener reads it as a generalization, putting in the effort to make it clear you don't mean everyone is helpful for some others I think. Just treating individuals as individuals and not as some monolithic group in the way you write helps you think about the world as not sub-human vs human based on what group you affiliated them with in your mind.
Oh hell no.

With sufficient malice and bad faith, you can misinterpret anything to meaning anything else. And 99.44% of posters have more than enough malice. And I'm talking about this board. It's disastrously worse over there.

Burn it to the ground, salt the earth, nuke it from orbit, and then induce a vacuum collapse. It's the only way to be sure.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on June 03, 2022, 11:35:49 PM
Burn it to the ground, salt the earth, nuke it from orbit, and then induce a vacuum collapse. It's the only way to be sure.

Or just fire all the mods, get sane ones, let Tangency go completely unmoderated, moderate all the rest of the forums with the same rule they've got here (i.e. shut down any thread that veers too far into non-gaming politics of any sort, and ban those repeat offenders who keep threadjacking this way), and fire any mod who goes off policy. The lack of safe spaces should drive out the rest of the most obstreperous.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 03, 2022, 11:36:19 PM
I had a good chuckle at this.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/discussing-osr-problems.897962/

Because Zeea is full of shit here. Not about some people being scum, but her insistence on how presentation matters. It doesn't, because no matter how 'clear' your post is, if someone misinterprets it (willfully or not), then the onus is still on the poster, not the reader.

Zeea is literally luring this poor fool into a trap. Classy.

Eh on that would I agree with them. It IS better to phrase things as not a hasty generalization. Even if the listener reads it as a generalization, putting in the effort to make it clear you don't mean everyone is helpful for some others I think. Just treating individuals as individuals and not as some monolithic group in the way you write helps you think about the world as not sub-human vs human based on what group you affiliated them with in your mind.
Oh hell no.

With sufficient malice and bad faith, you can misinterpret anything to meaning anything else. And 99.44% of posters have more than enough malice. And I'm talking about this board. It's disastrously worse over there.

Burn it to the ground, salt the earth, nuke it from orbit, and then induce a vacuum collapse. It's the only way to be sure.

Why does that mean they shouldn't make an effort to not dehumanize people based on their fandom group?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 04, 2022, 05:57:16 AM
I had a good chuckle at this.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/discussing-osr-problems.897962/

Because Zeea is full of shit here. Not about some people being scum, but her insistence on how presentation matters. It doesn't, because no matter how 'clear' your post is, if someone misinterprets it (willfully or not), then the onus is still on the poster, not the reader.

Zeea is literally luring this poor fool into a trap. Classy.

Eh on that would I agree with them. It IS better to phrase things as not a hasty generalization. Even if the listener reads it as a generalization, putting in the effort to make it clear you don't mean everyone is helpful for some others I think. Just treating individuals as individuals and not as some monolithic group in the way you write helps you think about the world as not sub-human vs human based on what group you affiliated them with in your mind.
Oh hell no.

With sufficient malice and bad faith, you can misinterpret anything to meaning anything else. And 99.44% of posters have more than enough malice. And I'm talking about this board. It's disastrously worse over there.

Burn it to the ground, salt the earth, nuke it from orbit, and then induce a vacuum collapse. It's the only way to be sure.

Why does that mean they shouldn't make an effort to not dehumanize people based on their fandom group?
Why would you assume I accept your conclusion? The discussion was about the onus of clarity being on the poster, and how people can willfully misinterpret anything. That does not imply the person willfully misinterpreting things is some champion fighting against the characterization of other people as subhuman. In fact, it's almost always the opposite.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 04, 2022, 08:19:12 AM
Mistwell assumes the TBP mods would act in good faith.

(looks at thread)

Right.

Or just fire all the mods, get sane ones, let Tangency go completely unmoderated, moderate all the rest of the forums with the same rule they've got here (i.e. shut down any thread that veers too far into non-gaming politics of any sort, and ban those repeat offenders who keep threadjacking this way), and fire any mod who goes off policy. The lack of safe spaces should drive out the rest of the most obstreperous.
But, but, then they might be forced to look at wrong think! /sarc

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on June 04, 2022, 02:51:58 PM
But, but, then they might be forced to look at wrong think! /sarc

Well, as my father always said to me whenever I complained about something on TV I didn't like, "You know, there's this thing called an 'off' switch, bub."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 04, 2022, 03:04:32 PM
Are we really surprised that the massive circle Jerk that is the big purple is having a. Meltdown at Johnny Depo winning.


It’s such a massive echo chamber that reality has no place. To be fair both people are terrible people. To imply that Heard is innocent is a huge exercise in mental gymnastics.

So let the mentally immature Wokescolds clutch their pearls over at the big purple it’s a great start to the weekend.

He’s a drug addict and has massive TDS, which often comes with the territory working in Hollywood. His joke about assassinating the president was surely in poor taste, as he admitted. Not sure if he qualifies as a terrible person but maybe others know more. She’s a complete psycho as evidenced not only by others’ experiences with her but from things she said herself.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on June 04, 2022, 05:45:02 PM
Oh my! Are they still around!?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 04, 2022, 10:16:35 PM
Mistwell assumes the TBP mods would act in good faith.

(looks at thread)

Right.

Or just fire all the mods, get sane ones, let Tangency go completely unmoderated, moderate all the rest of the forums with the same rule they've got here (i.e. shut down any thread that veers too far into non-gaming politics of any sort, and ban those repeat offenders who keep threadjacking this way), and fire any mod who goes off policy. The lack of safe spaces should drive out the rest of the most obstreperous.
But, but, then they might be forced to look at wrong think! /sarc

I said no such thing.

The mods in this case are DEFENDING THE OSR. I know, weird right? They're saying don't bash the entire OSR based on the actions of some individuals within the OSR.

And you guys are bashing them for saying that. Which is FUCKING WEIRD.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on June 05, 2022, 09:50:08 AM
Mistwell assumes the TBP mods would act in good faith.

I said no such thing.

The mods in this case are DEFENDING THE OSR. ...They're saying don't bash the entire OSR based on the actions of some individuals within the OSR.

And you guys are bashing them for saying that.

Not quite. We're pointing out that to say "don't bash all of Group X for the actions of a few of its members" is a useless action when the definition of "bashing" is so deliberately vague ("the onus is on the poster to be clear") that anything posted can be unfalsifiably taken that way by someone else.

And note that the distinction between what the mod in question disqualifies in principle (an accusation that "The OSR tolerates abuse and bigotry") and what is suggested as licit in principle (an accusation that "A huge chunk of the OSR tolerates abuse and bigotry") is in practice pretty much completely meaningless. As defenses go, I've seen better.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 05, 2022, 09:59:12 AM
The mods in this case are DEFENDING THE OSR. I know, weird right? They're saying don't bash the entire OSR based on the actions of some individuals within the OSR.

And you guys are bashing them for saying that. Which is FUCKING WEIRD.
I judge people based on whether they acted badly or well, not by whether they're supporting something I like. I don't give people a free pass for atrocious behavior, just because they're on "my side", and I don't relentlessly attack people just because they happen to disagree with me.

That you think that's so weird and off base that you need to use caps says lot.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 05, 2022, 10:18:34 AM

Eh on that would I agree with them. It IS better to phrase things as not a hasty generalization. Even if the listener reads it as a generalization, putting in the effort to make it clear you don't mean everyone is helpful for some others I think. Just treating individuals as individuals and not as some monolithic group in the way you write helps you think about the world as not sub-human vs human based on what group you affiliated them with in your mind.

For the record, I think you're correct on this one, although TBP are being more than a bit hypocritical. But this one on its own is a big nothing burger.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 05, 2022, 11:09:45 AM
#believeallwomen

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ithaeur-receives-a-🚫-three-day-ban.898039/

Seiberwing couldn't be arsed to reprint the posts or his whine, so I'll toss them here:

Quote from: TBP Mod Says What?
Ithaeur said:
As far as I can tell, it's pretty much the right decision. Heard's version of what happened was full of holes and inconsistencies, and her side made some drastically bad decisions in the court that devasteted her credibility.

While this may have an unfortunate chilling effect on women coming forward with actual abuse they've suffered, I hope this will also mean that a) more men will be open about suffering abuse, especially from women, and b) any people who had hoped to weaponize #MeToo against former spouses and such will reconsider and not do so.
Ithaeur said:
In this case, not believing her is the right thing, though.

The online shit, however, slung at Heard and her team was totally unacceptable and egregiously nasty, you're definitely right about that.

Moderator Text:
Take three days off. Do not post in this thread again when you return.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on June 05, 2022, 03:58:50 PM
#believeallwomen

Seiberwing couldn't be arsed to reprint the posts or his whine, so I'll toss them here....

Skepticism of abuse claims, even specific claims later legally deemed false, is considered by definition violation of a safe space, so it's unsurprising TBP would ban it.

Which suggests an interesting (in the Chinese curse sense) general question: Are we now moving towards a conception of social conscience where "guilty until proven innocent" is considered less damaging for society in general than "innocent until proven guilty"?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 05, 2022, 04:50:00 PM
Which suggests an interesting (in the Chinese curse sense) general question: Are we now moving towards a conception of social conscience where "guilty until proven innocent" is considered less damaging for society in general than "innocent until proven guilty"?
Most people don't think at the abstract societal benefit level. They think they see an injustice, and they're trying to correct it. They're not considering all the implications or weighing the various alternatives. Which is basically the societal equivalent of the broken window fallacy in economics -- if you look at the short term effects to a single group, every positive action looks beneficial. But if you look at the consequences and costs across the whole population, there may be hidden or widely distributed costs or negative effects, which outweigh the benefit to the group who is immediately affected.

Which is a very pragmatic way to frame things, and that's also counter to the way they're thinking. This an emotional sense of moral outrage, not an attempt to objectively weigh the value of different systems.

Though to give a personal answer, I hope not. Letting 10 guilty people go free to ensure one innocent person won't be punished is a hill I'm willing to die on.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 05, 2022, 06:10:57 PM
#believeallwomen

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ithaeur-receives-a-🚫-three-day-ban.898039/

Seiberwing couldn't be arsed to reprint the posts or his whine, so I'll toss them here:

Quote from: TBP Mod Says What?
Ithaeur said:
As far as I can tell, it's pretty much the right decision. Heard's version of what happened was full of holes and inconsistencies, and her side made some drastically bad decisions in the court that devasteted her credibility.

While this may have an unfortunate chilling effect on women coming forward with actual abuse they've suffered, I hope this will also mean that a) more men will be open about suffering abuse, especially from women, and b) any people who had hoped to weaponize #MeToo against former spouses and such will reconsider and not do so.
Ithaeur said:
In this case, not believing her is the right thing, though.

The online shit, however, slung at Heard and her team was totally unacceptable and egregiously nasty, you're definitely right about that.

Moderator Text:
Take three days off. Do not post in this thread again when you return.

Infuriating. I'll state right here that RPG.net and it's moderation team are condoning and enabling abuse and domestic violence.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 06, 2022, 07:58:05 AM
Wow, no justification at all,  just 'You belive a woman was wrong in a disagreement with a man. You are silenced. '

Fuck that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 06, 2022, 08:06:28 AM
What member of the Uvalde police department wants to risk life in jail for shooting a school shooter? After George Floyd I'm surprised any cops are still willing to stay on the force at all.


If you think keeping your knee on a handcuffed,  face down man's neck for 9 minutre is OK, you're as big a fucktarded moron as the mods on TBP,  just on the other end of the spectrum.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 06, 2022, 09:42:06 AM
What member of the Uvalde police department wants to risk life in jail for shooting a school shooter? After George Floyd I'm surprised any cops are still willing to stay on the force at all.


If you think keeping your knee on a handcuffed,  face down man's neck for 9 minutre is OK, you're as big a fucktarded moron as the mods on TBP,  just on the other end of the spectrum.
How many minutes is OK though?
I think Tony Timpa was lying face down for 14 minutes before he died, but nobody cared.  And he had less of a criminal record. They both probably overdosed. I wonder what the actual difference is 🤔
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 06, 2022, 10:14:33 AM
What member of the Uvalde police department wants to risk life in jail for shooting a school shooter? After George Floyd I'm surprised any cops are still willing to stay on the force at all.


If you think keeping your knee on a handcuffed,  face down man's neck for 9 minutre is OK, you're as big a fucktarded moron as the mods on TBP,  just on the other end of the spectrum.
How much restraint is allowed when the subject is violent, combative, and hopped up on drugs?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on June 06, 2022, 04:28:03 PM
If you think keeping your knee on a handcuffed,  face down man's neck for 9 minutre is OK, you're as big a fucktarded moron as the mods on TBP,  just on the other end of the spectrum.
How much restraint is allowed when the subject is violent, combative, and hopped up on drugs?

I suggest we not go down the route of re-arguing the Floyd case; whatever one's stance on the case or what one thinks of the TBP staff's opinions on it, or of police in general, our primary criticism in this thread has always been of TBP's bad faith methods of enforcing their opinions. Being forbidden to argue one side of a case on pain of banning is anything but a "liberal" policy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on June 06, 2022, 05:14:28 PM
What member of the Uvalde police department wants to risk life in jail for shooting a school shooter? After George Floyd I'm surprised any cops are still willing to stay on the force at all.


If you think keeping your knee on a handcuffed,  face down man's neck for 9 minutre is OK, you're as big a fucktarded moron as the mods on TBP,  just on the other end of the spectrum.

Exactly!

You are issued Batons for a reason.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 06, 2022, 08:05:04 PM
Batons, tasers, etc. Taser him, get his get his cuffed ass in the cage on a cruiser and drive him to the station.

And to the idiotic question of how many minutes can you crush a man's neck with your knee while he's cuffed, the answer is zero,  you fucking idiot, same as your I. Q.  That's a choke hold and has been banned by most police departments. But the cops who murdered Eric Garner in nyc used it and walked anyway.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 07, 2022, 12:51:26 AM
What member of the Uvalde police department wants to risk life in jail for shooting a school shooter? After George Floyd I'm surprised any cops are still willing to stay on the force at all.


If you think keeping your knee on a handcuffed,  face down man's neck for 9 minutre is OK, you're as big a fucktarded moron as the mods on TBP,  just on the other end of the spectrum.

Good thing I didn't say that. Way to jump to conclusions though.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 07, 2022, 12:56:15 AM
Batons, tasers, etc. Taser him, get his get his cuffed ass in the cage on a cruiser and drive him to the station.

And if he'd died from being tasered or batoned, that would be, at least, an acceptable use of force?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 07, 2022, 02:24:42 AM
Yes, in that case. Kneeling on someones neck is extremely dangerous and likely to cause death, everyone who isn 't a FUCKWIT or  TRUMPTARD knows that!!!!

Even if they'd used a baton to break an arm or collarbone it would  not usually cause death like cobstrictibg someone's neck for several minutes would be reasonably expected to.

If a taser or baton strike to a non lethal area caused death that could reasonably be considered an unexpected event. It could be argued that the cop did not intend to kill him.

That murdering fucktard kept his weight on a man's neck for 9 minutes. Either he planned to kill him or he didn't care as lkbg as he 'won' the 'fight'. In either event he is guilty. No reasonable person could not expect death as a likely result of what he did.

Of course TRUMTARDS will claim the dead man here 'should have just obeyed the law' and deserved to die while pissing and moaning about how poor ashli babbit was brutally murdered...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 07, 2022, 04:26:15 AM
Yes, in that case. Kneeling on someones neck is extremely dangerous and likely to cause death, everyone who isn 't a FUCKWIT or  TRUMPTARD knows that!!!!

Even if they'd used a baton to break an arm or collarbone it would  not usually cause death like cobstrictibg someone's neck for several minutes would be reasonably expected to.

If a taser or baton strike to a non lethal area caused death that could reasonably be considered an unexpected event. It could be argued that the cop did not intend to kill him.

That murdering fucktard kept his weight on a man's neck for 9 minutes. Either he planned to kill him or he didn't care as lkbg as he 'won' the 'fight'. In either event he is guilty. No reasonable person could not expect death as a likely result of what he did.

Of course TRUMTARDS will claim the dead man here 'should have just obeyed the law' and deserved to die while pissing and moaning about how poor ashli babbit was brutally murdered...

You seem to be wanting to argue with things I didn't say. I'll leave you to it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on June 07, 2022, 04:53:13 AM
I would pay to see the Trumptards and Libtards fight it out.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 07, 2022, 05:10:52 AM
I know on one recent case they banned someone for something like pro nazi sentiments and he threatened to sue so they changed it to 'pro Barker ' sentiments.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 07, 2022, 08:00:05 AM
If you think keeping your knee on a handcuffed,  face down man's neck for 9 minutre is OK, you're as big a fucktarded moron as the mods on TBP,  just on the other end of the spectrum.
How much restraint is allowed when the subject is violent, combative, and hopped up on drugs?

I suggest we not go down the route of re-arguing the Floyd case; whatever one's stance on the case or what one thinks of the TBP staff's opinions on it, or of police in general, our primary criticism in this thread has always been of TBP's bad faith methods of enforcing their opinions. Being forbidden to argue one side of a case on pain of banning is anything but a "liberal" policy.
He started it.

And I'm amused at his insistence on batons and tasers.

But he's probably right. They should've just left him in his car to expire peacefully from the fentanyl he'd consumed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 07, 2022, 08:03:15 AM
Didn't you hear us, chuds? #BELIEVEALLWOMEN

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/giel-m-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-and-threadban.898073/

This one amuses me for some reason.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/daveb-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning.898078/

Probably because one of the major threads I see in leftist rhetoric these days is 'punish the proles for their insolence in electing Orange Man Bad'.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 07, 2022, 08:21:03 AM
The Trump presidency is certainly the catalyst that took tbp from the inmates running the asylum to the inmates of Arkham Asylum torturing, killing, and eating the staff and each other.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 07, 2022, 09:00:07 AM
Didn't you hear us, chuds? #BELIEVEALLWOMEN

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/giel-m-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-and-threadban.898073/


Quote
It is has come to the attention of the moderation staff with this post that you have a very long history of engaging in 'both sides' and whataboutism when it comes to sensitive topics, which is especially in appropriate given the subject of this thread are survivors of abuse. Take a week off, do not post in this thread again and if you wish to remain on this board you need to seriously reconsider your posting habits.

Man, that’s rich with so much of TBP’s lack of self awareness. The evidence showed us, pretty much beyond doubt, that Depp is a victim of abuse. But no, it has to be the psycho woman who’s the brave “survivor”. Notice that the poster even took pains to say that Depp is an asshole, but nope, you can’t have even any suggestion of a more complicated story, or God forbid, agreeing with the other side.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 07, 2022, 10:17:37 AM
''Whataboutism''. What a fucktarded term.

But that's how it goes in America today. The other side has a point. So you just label it something and airly dismiss it as ''label''.

With sides do it, the fascist trump right and the woke cancel culture left.

On tbp they use terms like 'concern trolling',  'othering',  'abelism',  etc for any effective counter  argument to their fanatical insane woke position.

They admit they cannot respond to a valid point,  so they ban the point.

I honestly see tbp as the left version of fox news, a toxic echo chamber.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 07, 2022, 10:21:12 AM
Didn't you hear us, chuds? #BELIEVEALLWOMEN

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/giel-m-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-and-threadban.898073/


Quote
It is has come to the attention of the moderation staff with this post that you have a very long history of engaging in 'both sides' and whataboutism when it comes to sensitive topics, which is especially in appropriate given the subject of this thread are survivors of abuse. Take a week off, do not post in this thread again and if you wish to remain on this board you need to seriously reconsider your posting habits.

Man, that’s rich with so much of TBP’s lack of self awareness. The evidence showed us, pretty much beyond doubt, that Depp is a victim of abuse. But no, it has to be the psycho woman who’s the brave “survivor”. Notice that the poster even took pains to say that Depp is an asshole, but nope, you can’t have even any suggestion of a more complicated story, or God forbid, agreeing with the other side.

I honestly remember one of the moddissars on tbp, I think it was maclennan,  saying that 'the truth is no defense! '

That sums it up pretty well. Stalin would be proud.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 07, 2022, 10:23:36 AM
The Trump presidency is certainly the catalyst that took tbp from the inmates running the asylum to the inmates or Arkham Asylum torturing, killing, and eating the staff and each other.

Like you fucking rightards didn't go psychotic apeshit over Clinton abd Obama......
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 07, 2022, 11:22:43 AM
Next time someone complains about the RPG blacklist we tossed together, remind them that TBP has an entire 'milkshake duck' thread where they talk about abandoning works because the creators are engaged in wrongthink.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on June 07, 2022, 11:26:39 AM
I honestly remember one of the moddissars on tbp, I think it was maclennan,  saying that 'the truth is no defense! '

That sums it up pretty well. Stalin would be proud.

I remember that, actually. What he said was worse, though. What maclennan said was that the truth was less important than making women and minorities feel safe.

They also permabanned a detective who specialized in investigating sexual harassment cases because he said that accusers and accused very rarely tell the objective truth of what happened, because their memories are usually unreliable.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 07, 2022, 12:13:43 PM
Yes, in that case. Kneeling on someones neck is extremely dangerous and likely to cause death, everyone who isn 't a FUCKWIT or  TRUMPTARD knows that!!!!

Even if they'd used a baton to break an arm or collarbone it would  not usually cause death like cobstrictibg someone's neck for several minutes would be reasonably expected to.

If a taser or baton strike to a non lethal area caused death that could reasonably be considered an unexpected event. It could be argued that the cop did not intend to kill him.

That murdering fucktard kept his weight on a man's neck for 9 minutes. Either he planned to kill him or he didn't care as lkbg as he 'won' the 'fight'. In either event he is guilty. No reasonable person could not expect death as a likely result of what he did.

Of course TRUMTARDS will claim the dead man here 'should have just obeyed the law' and deserved to die while pissing and moaning about how poor ashli babbit was brutally murdered...

  Speaking as an expert on how to expire someone with bare hands, you have no idea what you are talking about.  Kneeling on the shoulder blade, as was the case with GF, will not kill anyone (unless maybe they are on serious drugs or have other issues).  There is the possibility to cause the diaphragm issues if you leave a cuffed person on their belly, and put weight behind the diaphragm (which is the primary reason they kneel on the head/shoulder blade, this is even a thing in BJJ "knee on head" - - you wont make friends doing that but it is not deadly). 

   The issue with GF, is they charged the cop with murder for using a department trained restraint technique.  it is not a choke hold, in any way shape or form.  People who say, or think it is, are simply completely ignorant of a choke hold.  To that end, making the choke illegal was a huge fuck up in Law enforcement,   if done properly it is about the least lethal/harmful way to restrain a combative foe (nothing is 100 percent, and doing it right is really not hard at all - it was usually a problem when applied improperly, not because the technique is flawed or deadly). 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 07, 2022, 12:25:09 PM
The Trump presidency is certainly the catalyst that took tbp from the inmates running the asylum to the inmates or Arkham Asylum torturing, killing, and eating the staff and each other.

Like you fucking rightards didn't go psychotic apeshit over Clinton abd Obama......

  You might be a retard if you think people not caring for Clinton and Obama compare to riots during an inauguration and constant and relentless attacks on an administration.  I get that you are on the left, but you are blind to how bad some of the people over on that side of the fence have behaved.  They are protected by the law, when Lawyers can firebomb police cars in a riot and get EXTREMELY light sentences, there is nothing close to an equal enforcement of law, and it seems largely based on politics.  You can keep thinking they are equally bad, but as a person who spent the majority of my life in the middle I can see when you have trannies in the girls locker room, kicking their asses in combat sports, winning national championships in women's college sports, and having strip drag shows with kids present can celebrating same.....one side has gone completely bat shit insane.  Lefties feel DJT is "far right" which is full bore retard absurd, the dude has almost all the exact same positions any democrat had in the mid 90's.  The situation in the country shows it has run HARD to the left, such that anyone who has positions liberals had 20 years ago are now "far right". 

   I feel you must either be a troll, or are so concerned about the fire in the house on your side (leftist positions, policies, and behaviors) you feel you have to screech about what people complained about during Clinton and Obama....while ignoring outright riots and killing from your side.   Good luck with this.  Be assured much of the middle 25 years ago is now on the "far right", and the ones who were right wing then are probably getting ready to fuck the country up and force a split.  Enjoy real insanity in the next 10 years.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 07, 2022, 01:39:25 PM
On the kneeling thing: My question has always been; was Chauvin taught this in police academy? If he was he should have been acquitted. I find it bizarre how vague people are about this question.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on June 07, 2022, 01:57:24 PM
On the kneeling thing: My question has always been; was Chauvin taught this in police academy? If he was he should have been acquitted. I find it bizarre how vague people are about this question.
It is quite possible that something is considered to be acceptable standards at the time of teaching but months or years later is not. I've seen this kind of thing in both of my careers (corrections and nursing), and it's very important to keep up to date on what the current standards of practice are in any career. Unfortunately, I've seen examples where some practice is changed/discontinued yet management doesn't make it explicitly clear what the new practice is going to be. Lacking effective change management, it's not too unlikely that the previous practive continues.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on June 07, 2022, 03:14:31 PM
On the kneeling thing: My question has always been; was Chauvin taught this in police academy? If he was he should have been acquitted. I find it bizarre how vague people are about this question.

This is what I got from the trial:

Quote
Lt. Johnny Mercil became a part-time use of force instructor back in 2010. He also introduced Brazilian jiu-jitsu training to the Minneapolis Police Department. Mercil described it as "a form of martial art that really focuses on leverage and body control." He said it includes using "pain compliance" techniques.

Mercil was in charge of use of force training for MPD during the time of George Floyd's death last year. Mercil said he was also in charge of reporting officers' completion of required trainings to the POST (Peace Officer Standards and Training) Board.

Prosecutors showed Mercil a photo of Chauvin kneeling on Floyd. The lieutenant testified that using a knee on a person's neck is not a trained MPD neck restraint, but "isn't unauthorized" when using force. He confirmed that once a person is handcuffed and under control, the technique would no longer be authorized.

Source: https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/mpd-lieutenant-johnny-mercil-use-of-force-derek-chauvin-george-floyd/89-a8c1d535-aae7-48cc-91c4-315b64e6fd57

So the technique is not taught at the academy - but the bigger issue is that Floyd was already handcuffed and on the ground, and thus did not warrant use of such force - whether that was a taser, choke hold, or other variant. Tasering someone who is handcuffed and prone would be just as unjustified.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 07, 2022, 03:37:58 PM
On the kneeling thing: My question has always been; was Chauvin taught this in police academy? If he was he should have been acquitted. I find it bizarre how vague people are about this question.

Probably intentionally.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/06/police-derek-chauvin-george-floyd-479404

"Minneapolis police are taught to restrain combative suspects with a knee on their back or shoulders if necessary but are told to “stay away from the neck when possible,” a department use-of-force instructor testified Tuesday at former Officer Derek Chauvin’s murder trial."

So it seems he was trained to use the knee to the back, but "stay away from the neck when possible". Which insinuates that when it's "impossible", a knee to the neck is at least acceptable under some nebulous circumstances.

*shrug* Nobody in the MPD are gonna straight up admit it, so they dance around the issue.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 07, 2022, 03:45:38 PM
Next time someone complains about the RPG blacklist we tossed together, remind them that TBP has an entire 'milkshake duck' thread where they talk about abandoning works because the creators are engaged in wrongthink.

Seriously? Linky pleasee?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 07, 2022, 03:50:29 PM
I honestly remember one of the moddissars on tbp, I think it was maclennan,  saying that 'the truth is no defense! '

That sums it up pretty well. Stalin would be proud.

I remember that, actually. What he said was worse, though. What maclennan said was that the truth was less important than making women and minorities feel safe.

They also permabanned a detective who specialized in investigating sexual harassment cases because he said that accusers and accused very rarely tell the objective truth of what happened, because their memories are usually unreliable.

Yep. The narrative drives their interpretation of the "truth". It's more important to feel safe than to be safe.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 07, 2022, 03:54:43 PM
I honestly remember one of the moddissars on tbp, I think it was maclennan,  saying that 'the truth is no defense! '

That sums it up pretty well. Stalin would be proud.

I remember that, actually. What he said was worse, though. What maclennan said was that the truth was less important than making women and minorities feel safe.

They also permabanned a detective who specialized in investigating sexual harassment cases because he said that accusers and accused very rarely tell the objective truth of what happened, because their memories are usually unreliable.

Thanks for confirming my memory.

What really gets me is they call themselves a safe space.  They harass, bully, threaten and ban people cobstqntkt, and define themselves as a safe space. Oh, lord , how can the universe contain such a level of cognitive dissonance?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on June 07, 2022, 05:08:03 PM
If you think that is bad try believing that All Cops Are Bastards  and also that Cops should have all the guns.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: bromides on June 07, 2022, 06:43:05 PM
So much of that site is self-referential and clique-ish, and it's no surprise they've latched onto the woke hivemind because it's the best way to act as a tyrant, like Best Korea. They have the power of "morality" behind their tyrant behavior, and it's "good" by self-definition... like the woke-white use of Latinks to uplift the benighted Latinx/Latinequis people out of gendered ignorance. The masters simply know better, and thus it is good.

If you don't fit their clique behavior, then you're cast out as unsafe and racist and everything else that is bad.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 07, 2022, 08:06:04 PM
Next time someone complains about the RPG blacklist we tossed together, remind them that TBP has an entire 'milkshake duck' thread where they talk about abandoning works because the creators are engaged in wrongthink.

Seriously? Linky pleasee?
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/when-you-find-out-milkshake-duck-is-a-racist.896572/

It's in Tangency Open so you'll need an account to read it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on June 07, 2022, 08:39:34 PM
What really gets me is they call themselves a safe space.

In the spirit of ol' Vlad Ilyich, Leon and Joe themselves, the thing about such terms is that one must always ask: For whom? (Kto, kogo?)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 07, 2022, 09:40:35 PM
A-yup.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 08, 2022, 01:14:25 PM
Funny note. A fairly large and long running convention I'm connected to that has a significant game presence (can't name it) was going to see about a game GoH and were considering someone from TBP.

Word leaked out and they got so much flak over it they decided not to ask anyone from it to come. A number of the local gamers really didn't want anyone from that place at their game con.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 08, 2022, 02:00:17 PM
Funny note. A fairly large and long running convention I'm connected to that has a significant game presence (can't name it) was going to see about a game GoH and were considering someone from TBP.

Word leaked out and they got so much flak over it they decided not to ask anyone from it to come. A number of the local gamers really didn't want anyone from that place at their game con.
I can’t believe that a forum moderator or administrator would rate as a GoH. I only know of 1 person associated with TBP (Appelcline) that has created anything meaningful that’s gaming-related, and even then it’s probably best to not invite anyone directly involved with TBP. It’d be for their safety if nothing else as it’s hard to imagine how they could function outside of TBP. They might overhear a risqué joke. Or hear a non-progressive political opinion. If they get the vapors they might hurt their head. However, Appelcline’s profile picture show’s him wearing a helmet while indoors, so maybe it could be risked with him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Appelcline/photo
Those books behind him are dangerous, I guess.
(Edited for clarity. Composing on a phone sucks.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 08, 2022, 02:24:45 PM
Funny note. A fairly large and long running convention I'm connected to that has a significant game presence (can't name it) was going to see about a game GoH and were considering someone from TBP.

Word leaked out and they got so much flak over it they decided not to ask anyone from it to come. A number of the local gamers really didn't want anyone from that place at their game con.
I can’t believe that a forum moderator or administrator would rate as a GoH. I only know of 1 person associated with TBP (Appelcline) that has created anything meaningful that’s gaming-related, and even then it’s probably best to not invite anyone directly involved with TBP. It’d be for their safety if nothing else as it’s hard to imagine how they could function outside of TBP. They might overhear a risqué joke. Or mention a non-progressive political opinion. If they get the vapors they might hurt their head. However, Appelcline’s profile picture show’s him wearing a helmet while indoors, so maybe it could be risked with him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Appelcline/photo
Those books behind him are dangerous, I guess.
Depending on the timeframe, it might've been Holden or Matt 'Black Hat Matt' McFarland.

That being said, it's pretty hilarious to contemplate.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 08, 2022, 02:30:29 PM
Interesting addendum:

When I was poking around to make sure I had Black Hat Matt's name right, I noticed something. Tanka, a notorious crank and shitheel mod on TBP... is no longer a mod. In fact, he hasn't posted since February, and his last login was in April.

Hm. Interesting.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on June 08, 2022, 04:52:26 PM
Funny note. A fairly large and long running convention I'm connected to that has a significant game presence (can't name it) was going to see about a game GoH and were considering someone from TBP.

Word leaked out and they got so much flak over it they decided not to ask anyone from it to come. A number of the local gamers really didn't want anyone from that place at their game con.
Why can't you name it?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 08, 2022, 05:00:25 PM
 I does seem like if you are part of a convention, you would want to promote it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 08, 2022, 05:08:11 PM
Determining a cons GoH can be “inside the tribe” discussions. If the con was named he could be seen as airing dirty laundry. Besides, naming the con would likely just bring a lot of hate from the Woke in their direction, and the con may foolishly attempt to apologize thinking that would bring them relief when the reality is such apologies are just blood in the water. I can’t blame a con for wanting to stay out of the Woke’s crosshairs.
(Edit: Damn you, autocorrect!)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on June 08, 2022, 05:13:40 PM
Interesting addendum:

When I was poking around to make sure I had Black Hat Matt's name right, I noticed something. Tanka, a notorious crank and shitheel mod on TBP... is no longer a mod. In fact, he hasn't posted since February, and his last login was in April.

Hm. Interesting.

Christmas in June. Thank you Santa.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 08, 2022, 05:28:07 PM
Determining a cons GoH can be “inside the tribe” discussions. If the con was named he could be seen as airing dirty laundry. Besides, naming the con would likely just bring a lot of hate from the Woke in their direction, and the con may foolishly attempt to apologize thinking that would bring them relief when the reality is such apologies are just blood in the water. I can’t blame a con for wanting to stay out of the Woke’s crosshairs.
(Edit: Damn you, autocorrect!)

  I dont either, which is why I would probably have just posted a thread on the RPG forum promoting the con and skipping all the stuff about being part of it and of course, airing dirt.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on June 08, 2022, 07:39:21 PM
Interesting addendum:

When I was poking around to make sure I had Black Hat Matt's name right, I noticed something. Tanka, a notorious crank and shitheel mod on TBP... is no longer a mod. In fact, he hasn't posted since February, and his last login was in April.

Hm. Interesting.

We still got Dawgstar to laugh at.

So, thumbs up to whoever it was who posted
F
U
T
A
N
K
A

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 08, 2022, 09:21:09 PM
I does seem like if you are part of a convention, you would want to promote it.

No, they don't want fucking woke fascists screaming that the con is racist or some stupid shit.

This con has embraced progressive policies on harassment and such while flatly rejecting woke policies. Years back a few people wanted it to adopt a 'accusation equals expulsion ' policy like comicon is supposed to have where if a female says a guy makes her uncomfortable, he's tossed, just like that.

I spoke against it as a female at the con falsely accused me of something years before that based on shit that happened out of the con.  I'd been going there so long people didn't buy her lie. I was personally attacked,  called a creeper,  etc, but in the end they didn't go with the 'she said so you're out' policy partly based on what they knew happened to me.

Plus the con doesn't need any shit right now due to missing a yea due to covid and having a not even break even year last year.  If you still have a problem with me not naming it,  fuck you. .
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on June 09, 2022, 08:43:27 AM
I does seem like if you are part of a convention, you would want to promote it.

No, they don't want fucking woke fascists screaming that the con is racist or some stupid shit.

This con has embraced progressive policies on harassment and such while flatly rejecting woke policies. Years back a few people wanted it to adopt a 'accusation equals expulsion ' policy like comicon is supposed to have where if a female says a guy makes her uncomfortable, he's tossed, just like that.

I spoke against it as a female at the con falsely accused me of something years before that based on shit that happened out of the con.  I'd been going there so long people didn't buy her lie. I was personally attacked,  called a creeper,  etc, but in the end they didn't go with the 'she said so you're out' policy partly based on what they knew happened to me.

Plus the con doesn't need any shit right now due to missing a yea due to covid and having a not even break even year last year.  If you still have a problem with me not naming it,  fuck you. .
What is a "progressive" policy on harassment?   Sounds like it's just "ignore the reports against people on our side"...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 09, 2022, 09:11:40 AM
I does seem like if you are part of a convention, you would want to promote it.

No, they don't want fucking woke fascists screaming that the con is racist or some stupid shit.

This con has embraced progressive policies on harassment and such while flatly rejecting woke policies. Years back a few people wanted it to adopt a 'accusation equals expulsion ' policy like comicon is supposed to have where if a female says a guy makes her uncomfortable, he's tossed, just like that.

I spoke against it as a female at the con falsely accused me of something years before that based on shit that happened out of the con.  I'd been going there so long people didn't buy her lie. I was personally attacked,  called a creeper,  etc, but in the end they didn't go with the 'she said so you're out' policy partly based on what they knew happened to me.

Plus the con doesn't need any shit right now due to missing a yea due to covid and having a not even break even year last year.  If you still have a problem with me not naming it,  fuck you. .

  I did not have a problem in the first place...so no way I can have a problem now.  Do you have trouble with reading comprehension? 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Skullking on June 09, 2022, 11:36:15 AM
What is a "progressive" policy on harassment?   Sounds like it's just "ignore the reports against people on our side"...
One that says "believe all wahmen!"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on June 09, 2022, 12:06:03 PM
I does seem like if you are part of a convention, you would want to promote it.

No, they don't want fucking woke fascists screaming that the con is racist or some stupid shit.

This con has embraced progressive policies on harassment and such while flatly rejecting woke policies. Years back a few people wanted it to adopt a 'accusation equals expulsion ' policy like comicon is supposed to have where if a female says a guy makes her uncomfortable, he's tossed, just like that.

I spoke against it as a female at the con falsely accused me of something years before that based on shit that happened out of the con.  I'd been going there so long people didn't buy her lie. I was personally attacked,  called a creeper,  etc, but in the end they didn't go with the 'she said so you're out' policy partly based on what they knew happened to me.

Plus the con doesn't need any shit right now due to missing a yea due to covid and having a not even break even year last year.  If you still have a problem with me not naming it,  fuck you. .

  I did not have a problem in the first place...so no way I can have a problem now.  Do you have trouble with reading comprehension?
I don't think it's comprehension. More likely just the usual hyperdefensiveness that this place tends to bring out in people before they switch to just not giving a fuck about what the other assholes here think.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 09, 2022, 12:09:28 PM
  Maybe I just have nutty ideas, like if I was part of a venture to bring in money/interest/people....I might spend a bit of time and energy promoting said venture. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 09, 2022, 12:48:21 PM
I does seem like if you are part of a convention, you would want to promote it.

No, they don't want fucking woke fascists screaming that the con is racist or some stupid shit.

This con has embraced progressive policies on harassment and such while flatly rejecting woke policies. Years back a few people wanted it to adopt a 'accusation equals expulsion ' policy like comicon is supposed to have where if a female says a guy makes her uncomfortable, he's tossed, just like that.

I spoke against it as a female at the con falsely accused me of something years before that based on shit that happened out of the con.  I'd been going there so long people didn't buy her lie. I was personally attacked,  called a creeper,  etc, but in the end they didn't go with the 'she said so you're out' policy partly based on what they knew happened to me.

Plus the con doesn't need any shit right now due to missing a yea due to covid and having a not even break even year last year.  If you still have a problem with me not naming it,  fuck you. .
What is a "progressive" policy on harassment?   Sounds like it's just "ignore the reports against people on our side"...

It means someone asks around if there were witnesses, sees if the woman might be grinding an axe and only does something if there is evidence of abuse or harasment. In one infamous incident a beloved con member was harassed by his ex wife while he was on stage during a costume show. We know sometimes women are the abusers.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 09, 2022, 01:05:34 PM
I does seem like if you are part of a convention, you would want to promote it.

No, they don't want fucking woke fascists screaming that the con is racist or some stupid shit.

This con has embraced progressive policies on harassment and such while flatly rejecting woke policies. Years back a few people wanted it to adopt a 'accusation equals expulsion ' policy like comicon is supposed to have where if a female says a guy makes her uncomfortable, he's tossed, just like that.

I spoke against it as a female at the con falsely accused me of something years before that based on shit that happened out of the con.  I'd been going there so long people didn't buy her lie. I was personally attacked,  called a creeper,  etc, but in the end they didn't go with the 'she said so you're out' policy partly based on what they knew happened to me.

Plus the con doesn't need any shit right now due to missing a yea due to covid and having a not even break even year last year.  If you still have a problem with me not naming it,  fuck you. .
What is a "progressive" policy on harassment?   Sounds like it's just "ignore the reports against people on our side"...

It means someone asks around if there were witnesses, sees if the woman might be grinding an axe and only does something if there is evidence of abuse or harasment. In one infamous incident a beloved con member was harassed by his ex wife while he was on stage during a costume show. We know sometimes women are the abusers.

Sounds like the typical holdouts desperatley trying to rescue the term progressive from the woke brigade. I doubt most who would call themselves progressive would agree with that policy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 09, 2022, 02:28:44 PM
It means someone asks around if there were witnesses, sees if the woman might be grinding an axe and only does something if there is evidence of abuse or harasment. In one infamous incident a beloved con member was harassed by his ex wife while he was on stage during a costume show. We know sometimes women are the abusers.
That sounds reactionary, not progressive. You're trying to return things to a previous idealized state.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: bromides on June 09, 2022, 04:42:29 PM
Looks like another cancel circle jerk is forming over there at RPGnet.

"Satine Phoenix & Jamison Stone Abuse and Misconduct Allegations"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 09, 2022, 04:46:10 PM
It means someone asks around if there were witnesses, sees if the woman might be grinding an axe and only does something if there is evidence of abuse or harasment. In one infamous incident a beloved con member was harassed by his ex wife while he was on stage during a costume show. We know sometimes women are the abusers.
That sounds reactionary, not progressive. You're trying to return things to a previous idealized state.
Heaven forbid anyone ask for evidence or proof before taking an action! Believe All Women actually isn’t anything new. It used to be the rule in the South when white women accused black men of transgressions. Ensured that there was a regular lynching every so often. True, the modern version is supposedly race-neutral, so I guess it has that going for it.

If the rule was “Listen To All Women” (instead of automatic dismissal) I’d support it, but Believe All Women is basically a kind of religious dogma.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on June 09, 2022, 05:34:47 PM
On a tangential note, EN World is seeing some people turn on WotC for D&D Beyond not offering their Pride Month dice in Turkey.

https://www.enworld.org/threads/d-d-beyond-self-censorship-pride-month-digital-dice-blocked-in-some-countries.689097/ (https://www.enworld.org/threads/d-d-beyond-self-censorship-pride-month-digital-dice-blocked-in-some-countries.689097/)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on June 09, 2022, 05:48:10 PM
Just going to let this one sink in, look at the date: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/are-these-forums-over-moderated.293407/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 09, 2022, 06:13:23 PM
Just going to let this one sink in, look at the date: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/are-these-forums-over-moderated.293407/

RPG.net was the first place where I noticed that something had snapped among people on the political left, shortly after I joined them around 2010 (I believe). Don't know about 2006 (though it seems that some people at least found it over-moderated), but by 2010 it was already going cuckoo.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 09, 2022, 06:46:54 PM
Just going to let this one sink in, look at the date: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/are-these-forums-over-moderated.293407/
Doesn't mean anything. The forums were the Wild West in the late 90s and early 00s, and they were still lightly moderated in 2006. It was a couple years later. I'd say 2008 or so.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 09, 2022, 06:48:38 PM
Just going to let this one sink in, look at the date: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/are-these-forums-over-moderated.293407/

Uh yeah, I quit reading when I saw 'getting gperma banned here is hard'..

The guy was banned.

As to all this about the left, these people have their heads so far up the right's ass they can't even smell it's shit anymore.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 09, 2022, 06:55:56 PM
Just going to let this one sink in, look at the date: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/are-these-forums-over-moderated.293407/

Uh yeah, I quit reading when I saw 'getting gperma banned here is hard'..

The guy was banned.
That's Curt. Curt was permabanned, then they made him a mod, then he resigned, then they permabanned him again 3 years after that thread. He had a temper and a long, long, long history of skating on the edge and the mods gave him a nearly endless amount of rope. It's not a typical case.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on June 09, 2022, 07:19:40 PM
On a tangential note, EN World is seeing some people turn on WotC for D&D Beyond not offering their Pride Month dice in Turkey.

https://www.enworld.org/threads/d-d-beyond-self-censorship-pride-month-digital-dice-blocked-in-some-countries.689097/ (https://www.enworld.org/threads/d-d-beyond-self-censorship-pride-month-digital-dice-blocked-in-some-countries.689097/)
Maybe they will realize that mega corp’s only guiding principle is profit and it doesn’t give a shit about rainbow dice beyond the fact that the US market wants them or is at least not hostile to the idea. Nah!

Oh and look, someone using the word “folx” without irony. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 09, 2022, 08:25:48 PM
Just going to let this one sink in, look at the date: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/are-these-forums-over-moderated.293407/

Uh yeah, I quit reading when I saw 'getting gperma banned here is hard'..

The guy was banned.
That's Curt. Curt was permabanned, then they made him a mod, then he resigned, then they permabanned him again 3 years after that thread. He had a temper and a long, long, long history of skating on the edge and the mods gave him a nearly endless amount of rope. It's not a typical case.
.

Must have been orally serving the right genitals....
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 09, 2022, 09:11:19 PM
Looks like another cancel circle jerk is forming over there at RPGnet.

"Satine Phoenix & Jamison Stone Abuse and Misconduct Allegations"
And Zak's name pops up as well.

Though I gotta say, characterizing someone chewing you out for submitting an inappropriate contract is a pretty low bar for abuse.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 09, 2022, 11:02:58 PM
I'm not a pundit fan, but I think not allowing his games to be reviewed or mentioned there proves beyond ANY AND ALL DOUBT that TBP is not about dicussing games, it's all about being as woke as possible, in a never ending spiral of insanity, fanaticism and intolerance...

You know a small, evil part of me kinda wishes a tape featuring GG himself using some common racist, sexists, homophobic terms of his day  would pop up, just to make TBP declare him and anything associated with him verbotten topics...  ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on June 10, 2022, 05:42:57 AM
Just going to let this one sink in, look at the date: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/are-these-forums-over-moderated.293407/
Doesn't mean anything. The forums were the Wild West in the late 90s and early 00s, and they were still lightly moderated in 2006. It was a couple years later. I'd say 2008 or so.
Sure it does. If posters thought it was heavily moderated in 2006? 2022? “Hold my beer.”

Then there is this gem : ” The goal is not to make the forums into a place where no-one can be offended.”
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 10, 2022, 05:52:22 AM
I'm not a pundit fan

Actually you are, because without him this forum where you like to post your idiotic screeds would not exist.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 10, 2022, 12:00:23 PM
As to all this about the left, I fhes people have theirbhewds so far up the rigbt's ass they can't even smell it's shit anymore.

evklnasubwebl?

Anyway, I know the left very well, as I used to be part of them, mostly for environmental reasons, and coming to America I even bought my dad a book about Obama as I thought he was an interesting politician. I guess I used to be a "Bill Maher Democrat" as well (he always made more sense than most commentators, left or right). But something has seriously snapped on the left, even more than Maher is willing to acknowledge (though, again, he's better than most). The gaslighting is through the roof. What's happening right before your eyes? isn't really happening according to left-leaning media and politicians. I have become convinced that the Democrats are much worse as far as questions of race go, compared to the Republicans (they seem invested in hysteria and guilt-by-association).  Doesn't mean that you have to embrace all the BS on the right of course.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 10, 2022, 01:01:56 PM
The milkshake duck thread is amusing as hell. Content creators take note: if you espouse any view to the right of Mao, chances are good TBP will not like you.

The good news is that outside of TBP, nobody will care.

Latest posts are bitching and moaning about how 'problematic' Catalyst's updates to Battletech lore are with the 'battle pope' (the current Pope of New Avalon has taken up arms against the Draconis Combine invasion, primarily because, well, the Combine executed the prior Pope and the Cardinals). Waaaaaah, how dare someone get a little hot under the collar for a war crime. It's not like it was Kentares or anything.

Also, bitching about Tex. Because he's Tex, and they're scum.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 10, 2022, 01:20:20 PM
Milkshake Duck?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 10, 2022, 02:12:58 PM
Milkshake Duck?
Linked further up in this thread (it's in Tangency Open so you'll need a TBP account to read it). Basically their version of the blacklist, except it covers any content creator, for having any wrongthink opinions.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thornhammer on June 10, 2022, 02:39:36 PM
Latest posts are bitching and moaning about how 'problematic' Catalyst's updates to Battletech lore are with the 'battle pope' (the current Pope of New Avalon has taken up arms against the Draconis Combine invasion, primarily because, well, the Combine executed the prior Pope and the Cardinals). Waaaaaah, how dare someone get a little hot under the collar for a war crime. It's not like it was Kentares or anything.

Also, bitching about Tex. Because he's Tex, and they're scum.

Are they still on about Tex talking to Arch, or is this something new?

I have been listening to the Black Pants Legion podcast recently. Good stuff.

As a vile Capellan - war crime is the right time, baby.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 10, 2022, 02:44:24 PM
Latest posts are bitching and moaning about how 'problematic' Catalyst's updates to Battletech lore are with the 'battle pope' (the current Pope of New Avalon has taken up arms against the Draconis Combine invasion, primarily because, well, the Combine executed the prior Pope and the Cardinals). Waaaaaah, how dare someone get a little hot under the collar for a war crime. It's not like it was Kentares or anything.

Also, bitching about Tex. Because he's Tex, and they're scum.

Are they still on about Tex talking to Arch, or is this something new?

I have been listening to the Black Pants Legion podcast recently. Good stuff.

As a vile Capellan - war crime is the right time, baby.
Probably more because Tex is non-left.

This kind of goes back to a line of thought I've had for a while: wokeists can't abide neutrals, or apoliticals. You are either with them, or against them. If you don't genuflect to their golden calves, they will hound you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 10, 2022, 03:14:53 PM
Latest posts are bitching and moaning about how 'problematic' Catalyst's updates to Battletech lore are with the 'battle pope' (the current Pope of New Avalon has taken up arms against the Draconis Combine invasion, primarily because, well, the Combine executed the prior Pope and the Cardinals). Waaaaaah, how dare someone get a little hot under the collar for a war crime. It's not like it was Kentares or anything.

Also, bitching about Tex. Because he's Tex, and they're scum.

Are they still on about Tex talking to Arch, or is this something new?

I have been listening to the Black Pants Legion podcast recently. Good stuff.

As a vile Capellan - war crime is the right time, baby.
Probably more because Tex is non-left.

This kind of goes back to a line of thought I've had for a while: wokeists can't abide neutrals, or apoliticals. You are either with them, or against them. If you don't genuflect to their golden calves, they will hound you.

  the press made a huge point, as well as twitter to hound BASEBALL players who did not want to wear a pride pin.....I saw a story about the twitter mob going after a professional gamer (I do not like the term esport) who did not support the cause because he is a Muslim.  Those people can only abide one thing, complete acceptance and celebration of whatever they put forth....or you are an enemy. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: bromides on June 10, 2022, 03:57:10 PM
Whatever happened to "tolerance"?

Now, you must LOVE and ACKNOWLEDGE the moral superiority of Other people as long as they aren't identified with Conservatism, and in the case of Conservatism, you must firebomb it and destroy it utterly.

/Mandatory Pride month is not helping anyone. It's North Korean-style political activism, where we're expected to cry or cheer on command. Mandatory political displays are horrific, and we should all be horrified by this.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 10, 2022, 04:18:26 PM
Milkshake Duck?
Linked further up in this thread (it's in Tangency Open so you'll need a TBP account to read it). Basically their version of the blacklist, except it covers any content creator, for having any wrongthink opinions.

I just found out that the term originally comes from this old tweet joke:
Quote
The whole internet loves Milkshake Duck, a lovely duck that drinks milkshakes!
 *5 seconds later*
We regret to inform you the duck is racist

I think this adds to our evidence that TBP is irony-impaired😄
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 10, 2022, 05:41:22 PM
Whatever happened to "tolerance"?

Some people took Popper's Paradox, which doesn't even vaguely mean what those people are claiming it means, to basically ignore tolerance.

I recently bought both volumes of Popper's books which contain the Poppers Paradox footnote they're abusing, and slowly going through them (a lot to chew on in there). But bottom line, Popper basically meant "On a scale of horrible from 1 to 1000, yeah you can't tolerate the ones all the way at the 1000 end but you can tolerate pretty much anything in-between 1 - 999 and here's how you do it by disputing their ideas with your ideas in a persuasive manner." Many on the left have instead moved it to "Anything past 99 should be called the equivalent of 1000 and not tolerated." Which would seriously make Popper throw up in his mouth and consider taking up arms if he knew people would abuse his stupid little footnote to wreck the entire thesis of his lifetime body of work saying the opposite.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: bromides on June 10, 2022, 07:40:18 PM
That stupid Popper thing. Ugh. It's just an excuse for discussions to degenerate into "I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I?"
As soon as I see that Popper statement come up (especially in cartoon format), I know I'm dealing with some kind of moron.

I'm sure many rpg.net morons have that tolerance/intolerance Popper cartoon on their computers.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 10, 2022, 08:14:34 PM
Milkshake Duck?
Linked further up in this thread (it's in Tangency Open so you'll need a TBP account to read it). Basically their version of the blacklist, except it covers any content creator, for having any wrongthink opinions.

Could someone do a screencap of that blacklist? Maybe create a sneek and peek sock just to get a screencap and share it here?

Oh,  wasn't there a case of tbp banning a woman whose hubby was accused of something because she refused to denounce him? Holy fucking stalinism batman!  Sounds like something that night happen in modern China too.

As a side note, I wonder what would happen if, say,  some really big shot on tbp was accused of something, like threatening to hurt a game designer by blacklisting him if he didn't payola tbp? Or giving a sexual favor? Or saying a tbp mod used a sexist/racist term?  Would that person, oops,  sorry,  persyn, be given what bill Maher called 'summary execution'?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: bromides on June 10, 2022, 08:35:38 PM
Robespierre thought the guillotine was a scientific, painless way to enforce justice... Probably until he had his turn on the guillotine himself.

These authoritarian turds never think it will be their time to face the "justice" that they hand out like candy. It's all too often the most depraved who are in charge of order and justice.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on June 10, 2022, 09:55:00 PM
Looks like another cancel circle jerk is forming over there at RPGnet.

"Satine Phoenix & Jamison Stone Abuse and Misconduct Allegations"

Is Satine Phoenix the whore that WoTC hired to be their "Community Manager"?

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: bromides on June 10, 2022, 10:21:25 PM
Looks like another cancel circle jerk is forming over there at RPGnet.

"Satine Phoenix & Jamison Stone Abuse and Misconduct Allegations"

Is Satine Phoenix the whore that WoTC hired to be their "Community Manager"?

I don't know anything about nocturnal activities, but from that rpg net thread, it is the same person. She did have some wotc community manager role. She also has some associations with Grim Jim.

The thread has since become an "A Game" (Big Brother is watching you) thread over there. Apparently, this situation has caused the Jamison Stone person to design his position at some gaming company.

I have no idea what that means. Still quite possible for the hive mind to do its thing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 10, 2022, 10:24:50 PM
Well maybe this new  one with satine and stone will finally be the one that results in tbp being hit with a lawsuit.

Honestly I love the idea of a victim of the cancel culture/female accuser is automatically right  suing the fuck out of applecline's shitsite abd literally end up owning it.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 10, 2022, 10:47:49 PM
Well maybe this new  one with satine and stone will finally be the one that results in tbp being hit with a lawsuit.

Honestly I love the idea of a victim of the cancel culture/female accuser is automatically right  suing the fuck out of applecline's shitsite abd literally end up owning it.

Sue them for what? And by who?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Aglondir on June 10, 2022, 11:01:00 PM
As a side note, I wonder what would happen if, say,  some really big shot on tbp was accused of something, like threatening to hurt a game designer by blacklisting him if he didn't payola tbp? Or giving a sexual favor? Or saying a tbp mod used a sexist/racist term?  Would that person, oops,  sorry,  persyn, be given what bill Maher called 'summary execution'?

Matt McFarland, aka Black Hat Matt. Former mod at TPB.

https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/arjjyq/growling_door_games_shuts_its_doors_after_abuse/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=0a6b08f55a8b4bcaab7d6ace81fbd199&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=arjjyq


Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 10, 2022, 11:22:52 PM
Well maybe this new  one with satine and stone will finally be the one that results in tbp being hit with a lawsuit.

Honestly I love the idea of a victim of the cancel culture/female accuser is automatically right  suing the fuck out of applecline's shitsite abd literally end up owning it.

Sue them for what? And by who?

Slander. Libel. Defemation.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 11, 2022, 12:53:08 AM
Well maybe this new  one with satine and stone will finally be the one that results in tbp being hit with a lawsuit.

Honestly I love the idea of a victim of the cancel culture/female accuser is automatically right  suing the fuck out of applecline's shitsite abd literally end up owning it.

Sue them for what? And by who?

Slander. Libel. Defemation.

HA! Good luck with that (https://www.eff.org/issues/cda230).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 11, 2022, 01:18:30 AM
Tell it to Alex jones.

He's git lime a dozen judgements against him on SLD lawsuits.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 11, 2022, 08:57:22 AM
Tell it to Alex jones.

He's git lime a dozen judgements against him on SLD lawsuits.

Your naivete is pretty amusing to watch.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 11, 2022, 10:55:55 AM
Tell it to Alex jones.

He's git lime a dozen judgements against him on SLD lawsuits.

That wasn't over an internet message board. He was the actual speaker of the slander, not merely hosting a board where others slandered. You were saying TBP would be sued for the views of their posters.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on June 11, 2022, 01:59:10 PM
Tell it to Alex jones.

He's git lime a dozen judgements against him on SLD lawsuits.

That wasn't over an internet message board. He was the actual speaker of the slander, not merely hosting a board where others slandered. You were saying TBP would be sued for the views of their posters.

TBP is an openly and actively curated board that can, and has, banned people for saying things that are not in support of the views of the moderators and has deleted posts on the board that also go against their views. So they are not simply a platform, but are publishers and can be held responsible for what they publish and endorse.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 11, 2022, 02:24:40 PM
Cool. What assets do they have that can be seized in a judgement?

I mean, I don't object to Appelcline, etc getting dragged into a courtroom and forced to explain under oath their decisions. But what then?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 11, 2022, 06:20:50 PM
Tell it to Alex jones.

He's git lime a dozen judgements against him on SLD lawsuits.

That wasn't over an internet message board. He was the actual speaker of the slander, not merely hosting a board where others slandered. You were saying TBP would be sued for the views of their posters.

TBP is an openly and actively curated board that can, and has, banned people for saying things that are not in support of the views of the moderators and has deleted posts on the board that also go against their views. So they are not simply a platform, but are publishers and can be held responsible for what they publish and endorse.
You may have a point. It was supposedly fear of a lawsuit that caused them to ban any discussion of Alex Macris and his products. On the other hand, if someone does sue I suppose it ought to be out of a sense of some kind of vengeance because I don’t know that there’s much lucre to be had from TBP.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on June 11, 2022, 06:23:06 PM
Cool. What assets do they have that can be seized in a judgement?

I mean, I don't object to Appelcline, etc getting dragged into a courtroom and forced to explain under oath their decisions. But what then?

I'd settle for taking TBP itself. Can we crowdfund a lawsuit? And, since it would be a lawsuit, making the moderators' names public knowledge by naming them as co-defendants and ordering Appelcline to turn them over.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on June 11, 2022, 06:36:24 PM
TBP is an openly and actively curated board that can, and has, banned people for saying things that are not in support of the views of the moderators and has deleted posts on the board that also go against their views. So they are not simply a platform, but are publishers and can be held responsible for what they publish and endorse.

Not according to Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which both specifically exempts Internet platforms from liability for whatever is posted on their sites and provides them authority to remove whatever material they wish for whatever reasons they wish (which most people want the platforms to retain so that they can speedily get rid of undesired pornographic content if need be). If Internet boards could be sued for censoring their content it would have happened long before now.

Now to be fair, there is lots of legal noise being made about the fact that the Act does permit precisely this kind of double standard -- that Internet platforms are claiming the liability immunity of telecommunications providers while retaining the content-curating ability of publishers. But no successful legal challenge has yet been made about it, that I know of, and until that happens lawsuits about such things are probably a pipe dream.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 11, 2022, 06:40:39 PM
Cool. What assets do they have that can be seized in a judgement?

I mean, I don't object to Appelcline, etc getting dragged into a courtroom and forced to explain under oath their decisions. But what then?

I'd settle for taking TBP itself. Can we crowdfund a lawsuit? And, since it would be a lawsuit, making the moderators' names public knowledge by naming them as co-defendants and ordering Appelcline to turn them over.
Sue TBP by committee? Sorry, that sounds like a terrible and very unfun way to spend anyone’s time. Even if possible I don’t think this thread is the place for something like that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on June 11, 2022, 07:29:18 PM
I'd settle for taking TBP itself. Can we crowdfund a lawsuit? And, since it would be a lawsuit, making the moderators' names public knowledge by naming them as co-defendants and ordering Appelcline to turn them over.
Ask Elon Musk if he'd buy TBP.  ;-P
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 11, 2022, 10:16:13 PM
Tell it to Alex jones.

He's git lime a dozen judgements against him on SLD lawsuits.

That wasn't over an internet message board. He was the actual speaker of the slander, not merely hosting a board where others slandered. You were saying TBP would be sued for the views of their posters.

TBP is an openly and actively curated board that can, and has, banned people for saying things that are not in support of the views of the moderators and has deleted posts on the board that also go against their views. So they are not simply a platform, but are publishers and can be held responsible for what they publish and endorse.

Again, nope. That's not how that works.

Seriously, it really isn't. I even linked to it above. They directly say, " This legal protection can still hold even if a blogger [or other Internet platform] is aware of the objectionable content or makes editorial judgments."

The exceptions are criminal conduct, and intellectual property stuff. Slander/Libel/Defamation is covered by the protection.

I know it's weird. It does seem like a strange law, and it is, and other nations don't generally have such a law. I guess Congress thought it was an important thing to do to promote a thriving internet. Maybe it's outdated these days, but it is the law they passed and it has not been overturned and I know of no widespread movement to do anything about it.

Which offers THIS board protection as well in the US, I might point out.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 11, 2022, 10:29:39 PM
Tell it to Alex jones.

He's git lime a dozen judgements against him on SLD lawsuits.

That wasn't over an internet message board. He was the actual speaker of the slander, not merely hosting a board where others slandered. You were saying TBP would be sued for the views of their posters.

TBP is an openly and actively curated board that can, and has, banned people for saying things that are not in support of the views of the moderators and has deleted posts on the board that also go against their views. So they are not simply a platform, but are publishers and can be held responsible for what they publish and endorse.

Again, nope. That's not how that works.

Seriously, it really isn't. I even linked to it above. They directly say, " This legal protection can still hold even if a blogger [or other Internet platform] is aware of the objectionable content or makes editorial judgments."

The exceptions are criminal conduct, and intellectual property stuff. Slander/Libel/Defamation is covered by the protection.

I know it's weird. It does seem like a strange law, and it is, and other nations don't generally have such a law. I guess Congress thought it was an important thing to do to promote a thriving internet. Maybe it's outdated these days, but it is the law they passed and it has not been overturned and I know of no widespread movement to do anything about it.

Which offers THIS board protection as well in the US, I might point out.
Would this not have then protected TBP from any theoretical lawsuit from Alex Macris? If so, did they just use the imagined threat of a lawsuit as a cover for banning someone they just didn’t like for his wrongthink?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 11, 2022, 11:59:09 PM
Tell it to Alex jones.

He's git lime a dozen judgements against him on SLD lawsuits.

That wasn't over an internet message board. He was the actual speaker of the slander, not merely hosting a board where others slandered. You were saying TBP would be sued for the views of their posters.

TBP is an openly and actively curated board that can, and has, banned people for saying things that are not in support of the views of the moderators and has deleted posts on the board that also go against their views. So they are not simply a platform, but are publishers and can be held responsible for what they publish and endorse.

Again, nope. That's not how that works.

Seriously, it really isn't. I even linked to it above. They directly say, " This legal protection can still hold even if a blogger [or other Internet platform] is aware of the objectionable content or makes editorial judgments."

The exceptions are criminal conduct, and intellectual property stuff. Slander/Libel/Defamation is covered by the protection.

I know it's weird. It does seem like a strange law, and it is, and other nations don't generally have such a law. I guess Congress thought it was an important thing to do to promote a thriving internet. Maybe it's outdated these days, but it is the law they passed and it has not been overturned and I know of no widespread movement to do anything about it.

Which offers THIS board protection as well in the US, I might point out.
Would this not have then protected TBP from any theoretical lawsuit from Alex Macris? If so, did they just use the imagined threat of a lawsuit as a cover for banning someone they just didn’t like for his wrongthink?

Whatever controversy that is, I don't recall it. Though that name does seem familiar. Was that a GamerGate thing?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 12, 2022, 09:22:06 AM
Tell it to Alex jones.

He's git lime a dozen judgements against him on SLD lawsuits.

That wasn't over an internet message board. He was the actual speaker of the slander, not merely hosting a board where others slandered. You were saying TBP would be sued for the views of their posters.

TBP is an openly and actively curated board that can, and has, banned people for saying things that are not in support of the views of the moderators and has deleted posts on the board that also go against their views. So they are not simply a platform, but are publishers and can be held responsible for what they publish and endorse.

Again, nope. That's not how that works.

Seriously, it really isn't. I even linked to it above. They directly say, " This legal protection can still hold even if a blogger [or other Internet platform] is aware of the objectionable content or makes editorial judgments."

The exceptions are criminal conduct, and intellectual property stuff. Slander/Libel/Defamation is covered by the protection.

I know it's weird. It does seem like a strange law, and it is, and other nations don't generally have such a law. I guess Congress thought it was an important thing to do to promote a thriving internet. Maybe it's outdated these days, but it is the law they passed and it has not been overturned and I know of no widespread movement to do anything about it.

Which offers THIS board protection as well in the US, I might point out.
Would this not have then protected TBP from any theoretical lawsuit from Alex Macris? If so, did they just use the imagined threat of a lawsuit as a cover for banning someone they just didn’t like for his wrongthink?

Whatever controversy that is, I don't recall it. Though that name does seem familiar. Was that a GamerGate thing?
Not specifically a GamerGate issue. TBP said it was due to threats of legal action for how when discussions of ACKS came up you’d have the Woke come into the thread about how those playing ACKS were having bad wrong fun, and describe why they thought ACKS was bad, wrong fun. To my knowledge Alex Macris never engaged in any political discussions at TBP.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/acks-autarch-added-to-forbidden-topics-list.830945/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on June 12, 2022, 09:54:04 AM
As I understand it, the issue with Macris is that moderators were accusing him of being a Nazi for his association with Milo Yiannopoulos, and he warned the admins that that was getting close to defamation. They decided to shut down all discussion of his work rather than reign in the mods--a move Macris found acceptable--and have been painting themselves as the victims ever since.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 12, 2022, 12:04:35 PM
As I understand it, the issue with Macris is that moderators were accusing him of being a Nazi for his association with Milo Yiannopoulos, and he warned the admins that that was getting close to defamation. They decided to shut down all discussion of his work rather than reign in the mods--a move Macris found acceptable--and have been painting themselves as the victims ever since.

The law protects owners of message boards from libelous views of their users. However it does not protect owners of message boards (and in theory the proxy of the owners - admin and maybe mods) from libel they commit themselves. So yeah if the accusation was the owners, or their proxy in theory, were making the libelous statements then there could maybe have been a case there. It still could have been an iffy case but at least I can see the line of thinking.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 12, 2022, 02:05:00 PM
Looks like the hate machine has fired up for Jamison Stone and Satine Phoenix.

Listen and believe, proles.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: The Spaniard on June 13, 2022, 10:53:06 PM
Looks like the hate machine has fired up for Jamison Stone and Satine Phoenix.

Listen and believe, proles.

What happened with Satine?  I thought she was on their good list?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on June 13, 2022, 11:04:50 PM
A bunch of people came out of the woodwork to say that she and her husband were shits to people who worked for them, didn't pay for commissioned work, etc.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 13, 2022, 11:57:44 PM
ISTR a man in the rpg field was accused of.... Badwrong and erased from tbp.  Later I believe his wife was also silenced for staying with him not condemning him.

How fucking Hitler/Stalin/Mao like can you fucking get?

What next?  Banning people for not condemning whoever is the current person accused of badwrong? Banning people with the same last name as they might  be related to him/her/it?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on June 14, 2022, 12:35:40 AM
A bunch of people came out of the woodwork to say that she and her husband were shits to people who worked for them, didn't pay for commissioned work, etc.

Sex work is real work Biggot!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 14, 2022, 08:01:01 AM
ISTR a man in the rpg field was accused of.... Badwrong and erased from tbp.  Later I believe his wife was also silenced for staying with him not condemning him.

How fucking Hitler/Stalin/Mao like can you fucking get?

What next?  Banning people for not condemning whoever is the current person accused of badwrong? Banning people with the same last name as they might  be related to him/her/it?
You're referring to Matt McFarland. There were some interesting implications that TBP staff knew he was a sex pest and ran cover for him till it got too big to hide.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 14, 2022, 08:48:06 AM
ISTR a man in the rpg field was accused of.... Badwrong and erased from tbp.  Later I believe his wife was also silenced for staying with him not condemning him.

How fucking Hitler/Stalin/Mao like can you fucking get?

What next?  Banning people for not condemning whoever is the current person accused of badwrong? Banning people with the same last name as they might  be related to him/her/it?
You're referring to Matt McFarland. There were some interesting implications that TBP staff knew he was a sex pest and ran cover for him till it got too big to hide.

Thanks!  :) He was the mod they exiled I take it.  Was he ever tried/convicted of anything
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 14, 2022, 09:20:52 AM
Sex work is real work Biggot!
Not to worry, while the sex workers are considered holy, their clients are considered abominations.

Such are the contradictions of the left.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 14, 2022, 09:35:48 AM
Sex work is real work Biggot!
Not to worry, while the sex workers are considered holy, their clients are considered abominations.

Such are the contradictions of the left.
Such contradictions are required when the Woke set the frame as being between sex worker and client. One has to be the villain so that they can be righteously angry at the disfavored party, and show their own virtue. If the sex worker and client were both viewed as normal this opportunity for the Some to prop themselves up wouldn’t exist, and therefore wouldn’t interest them. It’s impossible for the Woke to view both as abnormal since that would be in contrast to an overall “normal society”, and everyone knows the Woke can’t process that concept successfully.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: RandyB on June 14, 2022, 09:37:23 AM
Sex work is real work Biggot!
Not to worry, while the sex workers are considered holy, their clients are considered abominations.

Such are the contradictions of the left.

Soiled doves and the men who exploit them. Courtesy of the 19th century.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 14, 2022, 10:26:56 AM
Sex work is real work Biggot!
Not to worry, while the sex workers are considered holy, their clients are considered abominations.

Such are the contradictions of the left.

Soiled doves and the men who exploit them. Courtesy of the 19th century.
I think it may go farther back than that. The Woke are essentially a form of neo-Puritans. Many on the left/progressive side have abandoned traditional religions, but they still have this desire for a strict moral order. They have created a secular religion. Now the Puritans wouldn’t have any truck with the idea of soiled doves, but the basic urge for absolute moral judgement seems to be a significant driver of the Woke.

Traditional religions have spent centuries working out how to function, and smoothing out their rough edges, etc. However, any time a secular religion arises, such as how Marxism often functioned as a secular religion with its own versions of holy works and patron saints, it is all rough edges, and can lead to a lot of bloodshed. Revolutionary France had their Cult of Reason that went hand-in-hand with the Reign of Terror.

I hear about the Woke also being active in the UK, but not so much other countries. France seems to be resisting the Woke in particular. I wonder if that’s because those other countries don’t have the same history with the Puritans that England and English America had.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 14, 2022, 11:28:00 AM
Sex work is real work Biggot!
Not to worry, while the sex workers are considered holy, their clients are considered abominations.

Such are the contradictions of the left.

Soiled doves and the men who exploit them. Courtesy of the 19th century.
I think it may go farther back than that. The Woke are essentially a form of neo-Puritans. Many on the left/progressive side have abandoned traditional religions, but they still have this desire for a strict moral order. They have created a secular religion. Now the Puritans wouldn’t have any truck with the idea of soiled doves, but the basic urge for absolute moral judgement seems to be a significant driver of the Woke.

Traditional religions have spent centuries working out how to function, and smoothing out their rough edges, etc. However, any time a secular religion arises, such as how Marxism often functioned as a secular religion with its own versions of holy works and patron saints, it is all rough edges, and can lead to a lot of bloodshed. Revolutionary France had their Cult of Reason that went hand-in-hand with the Reign of Terror.

I hear about the Woke also being active in the UK, but not so much other countries. France seems to be resisting the Woke in particular. I wonder if that’s because those other countries don’t have the same history with the Puritans that England and English America had.
I don't think there's a direct link to the classical Puritans, though there may by something in the American psyche that finds the intolerant sexual morality of Puritanism and the Woke to be more appealing.

You might like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhNJJmmCkqY
It's a discussion of how government has become the new God, and how that idea is basically synonymous with totalitarianism. Lots of historical quotes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on June 14, 2022, 11:38:21 AM
Sex work is real work Biggot!
Not to worry, while the sex workers are considered holy, their clients are considered abominations.

Such are the contradictions of the left.
Also, if you think "sex work is neither" (look it up) then you're an evil puritanical bigot.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Skullking on June 14, 2022, 12:11:50 PM
I hear about the Woke also being active in the UK.
Unfortunately yes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 14, 2022, 07:47:46 PM
So sone people ask why anyone would sue tbp?

Well, first off it would be interesting to see how many gamers would contribute to a gofundme to fund the lawsuit.  Obce it was known someone was going after that site for slander, libel, defamation, false accusation, etc,  I could see a lot of individuals abd even some companies chipping in.

Second, I'd love to see someone take that site over. Not a far right group, no.  But a more moderate group that didn't go grand mal woke or extreme right.

Lastly can you imagine the living hell it would be for those little woke masters of the universe to have their heaven taken away from them?  No more godlike power, no more swaggering around bullying people,  no more abuse, condescencion, pompous dictates, arbitrary proclamations of guilt.

They might even try axtibg like they did on tbp IRL. 
 



Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on June 14, 2022, 11:15:32 PM
Many on the left/progressive side have abandoned traditional religions, but they still have this desire for a strict moral order. They have created a secular religion. Now the Puritans wouldn’t have any truck with the idea of soiled doves, but the basic urge for absolute moral judgement seems to be a significant driver of the Woke.

I think it's less about the desire for a moral order that enables judgment than it is about the desire for a goal that gives one purpose. The combination of an absence of faith in an external meaning to life and a generally high level of material comfort (most consciously Woke come overwhelmingly from the middle and upper classes) leave many desperate for some way to occupy their days that provides that meaning. For most of the educated West that takes the form of activities ostensibly meant to benefit the disadvantaged in society.

Unfortunately the idealists among the Woke have always failed to realize that humans in general share a tragic weakness: when we are persuaded that it is licit to use bad means to achieve good ends, far too many of us wind up falling victim to the temptation to use the good ends merely as an excuse for the bad means.  Judging, criticizing, and eventually casting down the privileged is only supposed to be one part of the task of raising up the disadvantaged, but the intoxication of righteous judgment distracts from and eventually supersedes that original purpose. Like the merc Jubal Early in Firefly, we write the judgment off as "part of the job" and keep ourselves from admitting that if it isn't why we took the job, it's why most of us want to keep it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 15, 2022, 01:20:28 AM
Many on the left/progressive side have abandoned traditional religions, but they still have this desire for a strict moral order. They have created a secular religion. Now the Puritans wouldn’t have any truck with the idea of soiled doves, but the basic urge for absolute moral judgement seems to be a significant driver of the Woke.

I think it's less about the desire for a moral order that enables judgment than it is about the desire for a goal that gives one purpose. The combination of an absence of faith in an external meaning to life and a generally high level of material comfort (most consciously Woke come overwhelmingly from the middle and upper classes) leave many desperate for some way to occupy their days that provides that meaning. For most of the educated West that takes the form of activities ostensibly meant to benefit the disadvantaged in society.

Unfortunately the idealists among the Woke have always failed to realize that humans in general share a tragic weakness: when we are persuaded that it is licit to use bad means to achieve good ends, far too many of us wind up falling victim to the temptation to use the good ends merely as an excuse for the bad means.  Judging, criticizing, and eventually casting down the privileged is only supposed to be one part of the task of raising up the disadvantaged, but the intoxication of righteous judgment distracts from and eventually supersedes that original purpose. Like the merc Jubal Early in Firefly, we write the judgment off as "part of the job" and keep ourselves from admitting that if it isn't why we took the job, it's why most of us want to keep it.
The Woke seeking some kind of a purpose for themselves rather than a moral order may be true for some of them. I don’t buy that the Woke are making an unfortunate mistake in using bad means. The way they take to self-righteousness tells me it’s something they seek and get off on.

As to the good ends that they seem, I’m having difficulty buying that either. The way they declare practically everything awful looks like they’re looking for a Year Zero reset of society. Those kind of resets often result in bloodshed. I guess some might try to defend their intentions as those of idealists, but I respond that I think you’ll find that idealists are usually quite evil.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 15, 2022, 04:26:53 AM
Many on the left/progressive side have abandoned traditional religions, but they still have this desire for a strict moral order. They have created a secular religion. Now the Puritans wouldn’t have any truck with the idea of soiled doves, but the basic urge for absolute moral judgement seems to be a significant driver of the Woke.

I think it's less about the desire for a moral order that enables judgment than it is about the desire for a goal that gives one purpose. The combination of an absence of faith in an external meaning to life and a generally high level of material comfort (most consciously Woke come overwhelmingly from the middle and upper classes) leave many desperate for some way to occupy their days that provides that meaning. For most of the educated West that takes the form of activities ostensibly meant to benefit the disadvantaged in society.

Unfortunately the idealists among the Woke have always failed to realize that humans in general share a tragic weakness: when we are persuaded that it is licit to use bad means to achieve good ends, far too many of us wind up falling victim to the temptation to use the good ends merely as an excuse for the bad means.  Judging, criticizing, and eventually casting down the privileged is only supposed to be one part of the task of raising up the disadvantaged, but the intoxication of righteous judgment distracts from and eventually supersedes that original purpose. Like the merc Jubal Early in Firefly, we write the judgment off as "part of the job" and keep ourselves from admitting that if it isn't why we took the job, it's why most of us want to keep it.
The Woke seeking some kind of a purpose for themselves rather than a moral order may be true for some of them. I don’t buy that the Woke are making an unfortunate mistake in using bad means. The way they take to self-righteousness tells me it’s something they seek and get off on.

As to the good ends that they seem, I’m having difficulty buying that either. The way they declare practically everything awful looks like they’re looking for a Year Zero reset of society. Those kind of resets often result in bloodshed. I guess some might try to defend their intentions as those of idealists, but I respond that I think you’ll find that idealists are usually quite evil.
I think for most it's about belonging. It's not about some high ideals, but about the human need to dance together with a team.

Ask an environmentalist about nuclear power sometime. It they completely shut down any conversation about it, and won't listen to a thing, they're not trying to save the world. They've joined a cause, and will brook no dissent. Socialism is another good example.

These aren't well-meaning people, who have been misled or are misinformed. No, these are the absolute worst kind of people. Because they've fanatically fixated on an end, and don't care who gets hurt along the way. In fact, they usually take a vindictive pleasure in the harm they cause, because they rationalize that anyone who isn't part of their team deserves it. You should be able to think of endless examples of this behavior.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 17, 2022, 03:40:51 AM
Sometimes I duck into tbp to see how far they've degenerated and I just saw this.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/teenagers-from-outer-space-boy-girl-gu.898364/

Tfos was a funny, completely non serious, comedjc rpg based on a mix of american teen movies and  Japanese anime from the 80's.  It was really about as series as a roadrunner cartoon. You could not die in tfos. Even if a nuke exploded in your face you would jsut be bonked for a while.


Having played it a long tine ago I had to see it.

The thread is proof that the hopessly woke have no sense of humor or any other kind of sense.  They even claim it's badwrong that pcs in tfos have moms and dads.

S far it's at 4 pages with no mods stormtrooping in. I think we all know they're just lieing in wait till someone says it was a comedy game and not serious to cone in with a hysterical parody of aR. Lee Ermy tirade on the poor reasonable person.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 17, 2022, 09:07:45 AM
Another bit of amusement: they're not talking about Chesa Boudin getting the heave ho from his office.

I can't find anything at ALL about that, or about Gascon potentially being yeeted as well via recall.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 17, 2022, 10:33:23 AM
Another bit of amusement: they're not talking about Chesa Boudin getting the heave ho from his office.

I can't find anything at ALL about that, or about Gascon potentially being yeeted as well via recall.
They don’t know of an acceptable means of how to process Boudin’s recall. That was a liberal community with a large minority presence that rejected the outright failure of Woke/Progressive (wackadoodle) policy. They can blame the 20 or so Republicans in San Francisco for voting for the recall, but that doesn’t explain the recall’s success. Though I’ve seen a journalist try to explain that San Francisco is “akshully a conservative city”, but that’s laughable. Some of the Woke have tried to define Asians as white, but that has already blown up in their faces before so they can’t take that approach. So when you’re in a cult and something occurs that’s in contradiction to your core beliefs it’s not surprising that the Woke on TBP basically ignore it. At least until someone is able to come up with an ideologically approved “framing” to discuss it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 17, 2022, 11:35:00 AM
Another bit of amusement: they're not talking about Chesa Boudin getting the heave ho from his office.

I can't find anything at ALL about that, or about Gascon potentially being yeeted as well via recall.
They don’t know of an acceptable means of how to process Boudin’s recall. That was a liberal community with a large minority presence that rejected the outright failure of Woke/Progressive (wackadoodle) policy. They can blame the 20 or so Republicans in San Francisco for voting for the recall, but that doesn’t explain the recall’s success. Though I’ve seen a journalist try to explain that San Francisco is “akshully a conservative city”, but that’s laughable. Some of the Woke have tried to define Asians as white, but that has already blown up in their faces before so they can’t take that approach. So when you’re in a cult and something occurs that’s in contradiction to your core beliefs it’s not surprising that the Woke on TBP basically ignore it. At least until someone is able to come up with an ideologically approved “framing” to discuss it.
Yeah, I saw that hilarious 'SF is rilly conservative yoo guize!'. Good grief.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on June 17, 2022, 11:40:09 AM
Another bit of amusement: they're not talking about Chesa Boudin getting the heave ho from his office.

I can't find anything at ALL about that, or about Gascon potentially being yeeted as well via recall.
They don’t know of an acceptable means of how to process Boudin’s recall. That was a liberal community with a large minority presence that rejected the outright failure of Woke/Progressive (wackadoodle) policy. They can blame the 20 or so Republicans in San Francisco for voting for the recall, but that doesn’t explain the recall’s success. Though I’ve seen a journalist try to explain that San Francisco is “akshully a conservative city”, but that’s laughable. Some of the Woke have tried to define Asians as white, but that has already blown up in their faces before so they can’t take that approach. So when you’re in a cult and something occurs that’s in contradiction to your core beliefs it’s not surprising that the Woke on TBP basically ignore it. At least until someone is able to come up with an ideologically approved “framing” to discuss it.

This is an interesting point: SFO being conservative.  How many gay and trans people *are* conservative? That is - how many of them are, for example, gainfully-employed and living quiet domestic lives with the their partners while having kinky sex behind closed doors like plenty of hetero couples?  You don't, for example, hear much about a transexual woman who stays at home like a 1950s housewife while her monogamous partner goes off to an office or drives off in his work truck for the day.  You hear about the flamboyant drag queens and dudes dressed like dogs in leather outfits publicly trying to sexualize children.  TBP can not, would not, endorse the former, but you can be damn sure they'll condemn anyone who objects to the latter - and that's some Jim Jones cult behavior on their part... 

I think *that* is why Boudin was recalled - even people who lead liberal private lives want the safety and security of publicly-conservative policies - like - not having drug addicts shoot up and shit on the sidewalk in front of your home; like not having urban yoots shoot you and steal your car; like not having thugs walk out of stores with handfuls of stolen goods - all things that make them emboldened to continue these acts when the government refuses to hold everyone accountable to the law.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on June 17, 2022, 11:49:01 AM
How many gay and trans people *are* conservative? That is - how many of them are, for example, gainfully-employed and living quiet domestic lives with the their partners while having kinky sex behind closed doors like plenty of hetero couples?  You don't, for example, hear much about a transexual woman who stays at home like a 1950s housewife while her monogamous partner goes off to an office or drives off in his work truck for the day. 
One of my game groups has a couple exactly like this. We are good friends. And they fucking loath all the "allies of convenience and performance" who talk the talk, but never walk the walk.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 17, 2022, 11:58:37 AM
Another bit of amusement: they're not talking about Chesa Boudin getting the heave ho from his office.

I can't find anything at ALL about that, or about Gascon potentially being yeeted as well via recall.
They don’t know of an acceptable means of how to process Boudin’s recall. That was a liberal community with a large minority presence that rejected the outright failure of Woke/Progressive (wackadoodle) policy. They can blame the 20 or so Republicans in San Francisco for voting for the recall, but that doesn’t explain the recall’s success. Though I’ve seen a journalist try to explain that San Francisco is “akshully a conservative city”, but that’s laughable. Some of the Woke have tried to define Asians as white, but that has already blown up in their faces before so they can’t take that approach. So when you’re in a cult and something occurs that’s in contradiction to your core beliefs it’s not surprising that the Woke on TBP basically ignore it. At least until someone is able to come up with an ideologically approved “framing” to discuss it.

This is an interesting point: SFO being conservative.  How many gay and trans people *are* conservative? That is - how many of them are, for example, gainfully-employed and living quiet domestic lives with the their partners while having kinky sex behind closed doors like plenty of hetero couples?  You don't, for example, hear much about a transexual woman who stays at home like a 1950s housewife while her monogamous partner goes off to an office or drives off in his work truck for the day.  You hear about the flamboyant drag queens and dudes dressed like dogs in leather outfits publicly trying to sexualize children.  TBP can not, would not, endorse the former, but you can be damn sure they'll condemn anyone who objects to the latter - and that's some Jim Jones cult behavior on their part... 

I think *that* is why Boudin was recalled - even people who lead liberal private lives want the safety and security of publicly-conservative policies - like - not having drug addicts shoot up and shit on the sidewalk in front of your home; like not having urban yoots shoot you and steal your car; like not having thugs walk out of stores with handfuls of stolen goods - all things that make them emboldened to continue these acts when the government refuses to hold everyone accountable to the law.

  Speaking of Jim Jones, he was one of the political activists that brought in voters and pushed hard for the hard line progressives that took over San Fran back in the 70's.   People forget he was a hard core SJW atheist.

   As to the recall, you can only have so many "white supremacist" attacks of Asians by black dudes who never do any jail time before people decide some flavors of "progressive" might not be the flavor they were looking for.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 17, 2022, 12:10:13 PM
Another bit of amusement: they're not talking about Chesa Boudin getting the heave ho from his office.

I can't find anything at ALL about that, or about Gascon potentially being yeeted as well via recall.
They don’t know of an acceptable means of how to process Boudin’s recall. That was a liberal community with a large minority presence that rejected the outright failure of Woke/Progressive (wackadoodle) policy. They can blame the 20 or so Republicans in San Francisco for voting for the recall, but that doesn’t explain the recall’s success. Though I’ve seen a journalist try to explain that San Francisco is “akshully a conservative city”, but that’s laughable. Some of the Woke have tried to define Asians as white, but that has already blown up in their faces before so they can’t take that approach. So when you’re in a cult and something occurs that’s in contradiction to your core beliefs it’s not surprising that the Woke on TBP basically ignore it. At least until someone is able to come up with an ideologically approved “framing” to discuss it.

This is an interesting point: SFO being conservative.  How many gay and trans people *are* conservative? That is - how many of them are, for example, gainfully-employed and living quiet domestic lives with the their partners while having kinky sex behind closed doors like plenty of hetero couples?  You don't, for example, hear much about a transexual woman who stays at home like a 1950s housewife while her monogamous partner goes off to an office or drives off in his work truck for the day.  You hear about the flamboyant drag queens and dudes dressed like dogs in leather outfits publicly trying to sexualize children.  TBP can not, would not, endorse the former, but you can be damn sure they'll condemn anyone who objects to the latter - and that's some Jim Jones cult behavior on their part... 

I think *that* is why Boudin was recalled - even people who lead liberal private lives want the safety and security of publicly-conservative policies - like - not having drug addicts shoot up and shit on the sidewalk in front of your home; like not having urban yoots shoot you and steal your car; like not having thugs walk out of stores with handfuls of stolen goods - all things that make them emboldened to continue these acts when the government refuses to hold everyone accountable to the law.

  Speaking of Jim Jones, he was one of the political activists that brought in voters and pushed hard for the hard line progressives that took over San Fran back in the 70's.   People forget he was a hard core SJW atheist.

   As to the recall, you can only have so many "white supremacist" attacks of Asians by black dudes who never do any jail time before people decide some flavors of "progressive" might not be the flavor they were looking for.
I read up on Jim Jones’ theology, and it was a 7-layer cake of wackadoodle. It’s amazing how many politicians of the time sucked up to him, and it’s amazing none of those politicians were ran out of town for supporting such a nutjob. Anyone paying attention to what Jones was preaching would have realized just how dangerous he was, and if you’re supporting a religious figure without paying attention to what he’s preaching you ought to be considered to damn stupid to hold a position of power.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on June 17, 2022, 08:40:16 PM
As to the good ends that they seem, I’m having difficulty buying that either. The way they declare practically everything awful looks like they’re looking for a Year Zero reset of society. Those kind of resets often result in bloodshed. I guess some might try to defend their intentions as those of idealists, but I respond that I think you’ll find that idealists are usually quite evil.

I think the problem is that they see large swaths of the population as irredeemably evil. They're being trained by media (especially social media) to amplify every negative thing. That's in common between left-wing and right-wing, as we saw similar number approving of threats and assassination among the younger generation.

Plenty of Republicans see the enemy as so poisonous that the only way to get a healthy society is violent revolution. The government is too corrupt and Democrats too entrenched - and the Democrats cheat.

Likewise, plenty of Democrats also see the enemy as so poisonous that the only way to get to a healthy society is violent revolution. The government is corrupt and continues to do the bidding of corporations even if they toss in some token gestures or minority figureheads, the mainstream is still controlled by the rich and corporations.

I think the best way around this is to reign in the extreme rhetoric about the enemy, and speak on actual issues in plain terms - especially locally.


I think for most it's about belonging. It's not about some high ideals, but about the human need to dance together with a team.

Ask an environmentalist about nuclear power sometime. It they completely shut down any conversation about it, and won't listen to a thing, they're not trying to save the world. They've joined a cause, and will brook no dissent. Socialism is another good example.

These aren't well-meaning people, who have been misled or are misinformed. No, these are the absolute worst kind of people. Because they've fanatically fixated on an end, and don't care who gets hurt along the way.

I've talked with a bunch of other environmentalists about nuclear power frequently. I haven't had a great success rate, but they have usually been willing to listen.

Nearly everyone is motivated by a sense of belonging, and it's hard to change anyone's position through logic or evidence. Still, that doesn't mean that everyone is the worst kind of people. They're just regular people, who are more swayed by emotion and belonging than logic because that's the way people have always been.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on June 18, 2022, 08:03:29 AM
I think the problem is that they see large swaths of the population as irredeemably evil. They're being trained by media (especially social media) to amplify every negative thing. That's in common between left-wing and right-wing, as we saw similar number approving of threats and assassination among the younger generation.

Plenty of Republicans see the enemy as so poisonous that the only way to get a healthy society is violent revolution. The government is too corrupt and Democrats too entrenched - and the Democrats cheat.

Likewise, plenty of Democrats also see the enemy as so poisonous that the only way to get to a healthy society is violent revolution. The government is corrupt and continues to do the bidding of corporations even if they toss in some token gestures or minority figureheads, the mainstream is still controlled by the rich and corporations.

I think the best way around this is to reign in the extreme rhetoric about the enemy, and speak on actual issues in plain terms - especially locally.
Stop trying to sell the moral equivalence between the left and the right.

One side gets to burn, loot and murder across multiple cities for an entire summer over the death of a man (and whose accused killer was actually being prosecuted for it) and they’re not only quickly released, and the Democrats, including our current VP, held fundraisers for their defense while the media expound on how we must show compassion for them as the neighborhood they set fire too is still burning in the background.

Another side goes into a building where the guards are holding the doors open for them and they stay into the velvet ropes and take selfies as part of protest over what turns out based on all the evidence the cowardly and/or corrupt courts refused to even hear was 100% legitimate and yet to be addressed because those with the political power are too corrupt and cheat. They kill no one (despite what the media spins the only death actually related to the rally was an unarmed protestor shot without warning by a member of the security detail and whom the DOJ declined to prosecute. Those people get arrested and held in solitary confinement without trial for over a year and a half and the media screams they are horribad people who deserve no mercy whatsoever. The corrupt government spins lies in a kangaroo congressional hearing about them that the media help them put out in prime time.*

And maybe we’d actually be able to move on and just let it go if they truly were acting for some sort of greater good instead looting our treasury as their idiot policies destroy our economy and supply chain, cause crime to skyrocket (while demanding the law abiding be disarmed), threaten food shortages, and start proxy wars to conceal their ongoing money laundering as their State Police pursue parents concerned over what their kids are being taught in school while sweeping the crimes of the elites under the rug.

So you can fuck right off with your steaming pile of “both sides are equally bad” nonsense. The Left radicalized and seized power and wants to punish anyone who disagrees with the kleptocracy. They have whipped their side into destructive and lethal protests and seek to destroy anyone who defends themselves (see Rittenhouse). They have members openly calling for reeducation camps and have never denounced (indeed they celebrate) their past leaders who called for the murder of 20% of the population to achieve their communist utopia.

The Right organizing and desiring to resist being thrown into gulags doesn’t make them “just as bad.”

* Meanwhile Leftist activists can harrass Republican Senators in the elevators of the capitol with impunity if an issue they care about like a Supreme Court nomination and the media lauds it as seeking justice.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 18, 2022, 09:17:31 AM
  Some points are areas of zero compromise for both ends of the divide.  One side is NOT going to tolerate "common sense gun control", one side is not going to tolerate "states rights" regarding making laws for abortion, one side is NOT going to tolerate having trannies read books to their kids while cavorting about, one side is NOT going to tolerate letting kids pray in school, one side is NOT going to tolerate training their kids to view themselves as having "taint" due to their skin color. 

   Honey moon is gone, the good times are past, the kids have left the house, divorce is looking like a better and better option to what is way out on the (20 year) horizon.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on June 18, 2022, 11:01:44 AM
  Some points are areas of zero compromise for both ends of the divide.  One side is NOT going to tolerate "common sense gun control", one side is not going to tolerate "states rights" regarding making laws for abortion, one side is NOT going to tolerate having trannies read books to their kids while cavorting about, one side is NOT going to tolerate letting kids pray in school, one side is NOT going to tolerate training their kids to view themselves as having "taint" due to their skin color. 

   Honey moon is gone, the good times are past, the kids have left the house, divorce is looking like a better and better option to what is way out on the (20 year) horizon.

Those of us who were actually educated in school, rather than indoctrinated, fully recognize that the US is dangerously close to, if not already at, that point in which all previous forms of similar government have disintegrated.  The implosion of Athenian democracy. The descent of Rome from a republic into an empire and subsequent fall into the dark ages.

Athens, for example, shifted lawmaking responsibility from their assembly to their courts.  That sounds pretty familiar to what happens here in the US, no?  They began using their government for the benefit of a smaller group of self-interested factions rather than the entire polis.  Sounds pretty familiar, no? They began emphasizing freedom and equality of their non citizens over their citizens. Sounds pretty familiar, no?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: The Spaniard on June 18, 2022, 03:56:47 PM
  Some points are areas of zero compromise for both ends of the divide.  One side is NOT going to tolerate "common sense gun control", one side is not going to tolerate "states rights" regarding making laws for abortion, one side is NOT going to tolerate having trannies read books to their kids while cavorting about, one side is NOT going to tolerate letting kids pray in school, one side is NOT going to tolerate training their kids to view themselves as having "taint" due to their skin color. 

   Honey moon is gone, the good times are past, the kids have left the house, divorce is looking like a better and better option to what is way out on the (20 year) horizon.

The powers that be cannot let a divorce happen.  Too many producers on our side of the fence to let get away.  They'll be left with mostly takers.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on June 18, 2022, 06:00:00 PM
  Some points are areas of zero compromise for both ends of the divide.  One side is NOT going to tolerate "common sense gun control", one side is not going to tolerate "states rights" regarding making laws for abortion, one side is NOT going to tolerate having trannies read books to their kids while cavorting about, one side is NOT going to tolerate letting kids pray in school, one side is NOT going to tolerate training their kids to view themselves as having "taint" due to their skin color. 

   Honey moon is gone, the good times are past, the kids have left the house, divorce is looking like a better and better option to what is way out on the (20 year) horizon.

The powers that be cannot let a divorce happen.  Too many producers on our side of the fence to let get away.  They'll be left with mostly takers.

The Spaniard - I take from context that you're saying that Republicans are producers. However, I don't think the divide is clear. Looking over the list of states most reliant on Federal funds, 9 out of the top 10 are red states.

https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/

To oggsmash point about the honeymoon being over, I don't see that we ever had a honeymoon. The U.S. was founded with a divide between slave and free states. After slavery was resolved, we were divided by alcohol and immigrant rights - peaking in the 1920s with Prohibition and the KKK march on Washington. Back in the 1960s we had a spate of assassinations (JFK, MLK, RFK) and rival groups of domestic terrorists.

We are in a period of higher divisiveness as opposed to periods like the 1940s and the 1990s, but we've been in such periods before. We've only had one civil war - and I think the current issues are significantly less central to most people's lives than slavery.

People can self-select and move to where they are most comfortable, but even if there were a secession, the two countries would still have a lot of ties and would have to work together.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on June 18, 2022, 06:55:13 PM
  Some points are areas of zero compromise for both ends of the divide.  One side is NOT going to tolerate "common sense gun control", one side is not going to tolerate "states rights" regarding making laws for abortion, one side is NOT going to tolerate having trannies read books to their kids while cavorting about, one side is NOT going to tolerate letting kids pray in school, one side is NOT going to tolerate training their kids to view themselves as having "taint" due to their skin color. 

   Honey moon is gone, the good times are past, the kids have left the house, divorce is looking like a better and better option to what is way out on the (20 year) horizon.

The powers that be cannot let a divorce happen.  Too many producers on our side of the fence to let get away.  They'll be left with mostly takers.

The Spaniard - I take from context that you're saying that Republicans are producers. However, I don't think the divide is clear. Looking over the list of states most reliant on Federal funds, 9 out of the top 10 are red states.

https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/

To oggsmash point about the honeymoon being over, I don't see that we ever had a honeymoon. The U.S. was founded with a divide between slave and free states. After slavery was resolved, we were divided by alcohol and immigrant rights - peaking in the 1920s with Prohibition and the KKK march on Washington. Back in the 1960s we had a spate of assassinations (JFK, MLK, RFK) and rival groups of domestic terrorists.

We are in a period of higher divisiveness as opposed to periods like the 1940s and the 1990s, but we've been in such periods before. We've only had one civil war - and I think the current issues are significantly less central to most people's lives than slavery.

People can self-select and move to where they are most comfortable, but even if there were a secession, the two countries would still have a lot of ties and would have to work together.

I would argue that we've had three civil wars. The first obvious one, but also the counterculture 1960s with the anti-Vietnam War, Weathermen, Black Panthers, MLK, etc.; and we're currently in the midst of the third one.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: The Spaniard on June 18, 2022, 07:17:22 PM
  Some points are areas of zero compromise for both ends of the divide.  One side is NOT going to tolerate "common sense gun control", one side is not going to tolerate "states rights" regarding making laws for abortion, one side is NOT going to tolerate having trannies read books to their kids while cavorting about, one side is NOT going to tolerate letting kids pray in school, one side is NOT going to tolerate training their kids to view themselves as having "taint" due to their skin color. 

   Honey moon is gone, the good times are past, the kids have left the house, divorce is looking like a better and better option to what is way out on the (20 year) horizon.

The powers that be cannot let a divorce happen.  Too many producers on our side of the fence to let get away.  They'll be left with mostly takers.

The Spaniard - I take from context that you're saying that Republicans are producers. However, I don't think the divide is clear. Looking over the list of states most reliant on Federal funds, 9 out of the top 10 are red states.

https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/

To oggsmash point about the honeymoon being over, I don't see that we ever had a honeymoon. The U.S. was founded with a divide between slave and free states. After slavery was resolved, we were divided by alcohol and immigrant rights - peaking in the 1920s with Prohibition and the KKK march on Washington. Back in the 1960s we had a spate of assassinations (JFK, MLK, RFK) and rival groups of domestic terrorists.

We are in a period of higher divisiveness as opposed to periods like the 1940s and the 1990s, but we've been in such periods before. We've only had one civil war - and I think the current issues are significantly less central to most people's lives than slavery.

People can self-select and move to where they are most comfortable, but even if there were a secession, the two countries would still have a lot of ties and would have to work together.

Thanks for the link, lots to digest there.  I'll continue looking through it.  My comment was not so much about Republicans with a big R though.  Their establishment is part of the overall problem.

I think the issue with the level of divisiveness now, as opposed to earlier periods, is that information is disseminated at near real time.   Most social media outlets are fairly biased, and many people are actively engaged in it constantly.  The fact there is little to no accountability for saying the most outrageous things makes it all the more toxic.  You can actively engage your "enemy" without fear of getting punched in the face for talking shit.  With such bad behavior encouraged, I don't see how our union stays intact, especially as we get further away from things that bind us together as a culture.  Diversity is not always a plus.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 18, 2022, 07:33:05 PM
  Some points are areas of zero compromise for both ends of the divide.  One side is NOT going to tolerate "common sense gun control", one side is not going to tolerate "states rights" regarding making laws for abortion, one side is NOT going to tolerate having trannies read books to their kids while cavorting about, one side is NOT going to tolerate letting kids pray in school, one side is NOT going to tolerate training their kids to view themselves as having "taint" due to their skin color. 

   Honey moon is gone, the good times are past, the kids have left the house, divorce is looking like a better and better option to what is way out on the (20 year) horizon.

The powers that be cannot let a divorce happen.  Too many producers on our side of the fence to let get away.  They'll be left with mostly takers.

The Spaniard - I take from context that you're saying that Republicans are producers. However, I don't think the divide is clear. Looking over the list of states most reliant on Federal funds, 9 out of the top 10 are red states.

https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/

To oggsmash point about the honeymoon being over, I don't see that we ever had a honeymoon. The U.S. was founded with a divide between slave and free states. After slavery was resolved, we were divided by alcohol and immigrant rights - peaking in the 1920s with Prohibition and the KKK march on Washington. Back in the 1960s we had a spate of assassinations (JFK, MLK, RFK) and rival groups of domestic terrorists.

We are in a period of higher divisiveness as opposed to periods like the 1940s and the 1990s, but we've been in such periods before. We've only had one civil war - and I think the current issues are significantly less central to most people's lives than slavery.

People can self-select and move to where they are most comfortable, but even if there were a secession, the two countries would still have a lot of ties and would have to work together.

  Two civil wars.  The nation was founded in a civil war.   That 9 out of 10 red state thing, I would be careful on that one, or you might start having to come to some conclusions no one will like.   You GREATLY underestimate how agitated shitloads of parents are about the trans bathroom and sports thing are.   Very few people had slaves when slavery was such a huge issue.  Lots more people have kids proportionately, and lots of them are pretty worked up.  keep tossing in crazy gas, selling the country out on paying Ukriane more in a quarter than Russia's annual military budget, and sprinkle formula shortages on top to see how that cake turns out.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 18, 2022, 08:11:12 PM
I think for most it's about belonging. It's not about some high ideals, but about the human need to dance together with a team.

Ask an environmentalist about nuclear power sometime. It they completely shut down any conversation about it, and won't listen to a thing, they're not trying to save the world. They've joined a cause, and will brook no dissent. Socialism is another good example.

These aren't well-meaning people, who have been misled or are misinformed. No, these are the absolute worst kind of people. Because they've fanatically fixated on an end, and don't care who gets hurt along the way.

I've talked with a bunch of other environmentalists about nuclear power frequently. I haven't had a great success rate, but they have usually been willing to listen.

Nearly everyone is motivated by a sense of belonging, and it's hard to change anyone's position through logic or evidence. Still, that doesn't mean that everyone is the worst kind of people. They're just regular people, who are more swayed by emotion and belonging than logic because that's the way people have always been.
I point out a sick, extremist ideology. You claim they're just regular people, and provide an example. An example that that violates the one criterion I established. And on top of that, you (falsely) claim I said "everyone is the worst kind of people".

That's called gaslighting, moving the goalposts, or, to cut to the chase: You're a liar. And it's a pattern with you. Almost every time you reply to one my posts, you pull shit like this.

This is what talking to you is like:

I say: The sky is blue.
You say: I don't agree the sky is red.
I say: *facepalm*

You're pond scum.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 19, 2022, 08:46:54 AM
Speaking of sick, extremist ideologies, this was unexpected.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/zeea-receives-a-🚫-one-day-ban.898529/

This came after Zeea edited their post for wrongthink using the wrong pronoun accidentally.

I can't help but wonder if this heralds some hair-splitting attempts by mods to whack each other with the banhammer. Will have to keep an eye on things.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on June 19, 2022, 10:07:04 AM
Speaking of sick, extremist ideologies, this was unexpected.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/zeea-receives-a-🚫-one-day-ban.898529/

This came after Zeea edited their post for wrongthink using the wrong pronoun accidentally.

I can't help but wonder if this heralds some hair-splitting attempts by mods to whack each other with the banhammer. Will have to keep an eye on things.

The left eating each other.  Just wall them off and let them destroy themselves.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: The Spaniard on June 19, 2022, 11:57:52 AM
Speaking of sick, extremist ideologies, this was unexpected.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/zeea-receives-a-🚫-one-day-ban.898529/

This came after Zeea edited their post for wrongthink using the wrong pronoun accidentally.

I can't help but wonder if this heralds some hair-splitting attempts by mods to whack each other with the banhammer. Will have to keep an eye on things.

The left eating each other.  Just wall them off and let them destroy themselves.

If only...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on June 19, 2022, 03:18:27 PM
Speaking of sick, extremist ideologies, this was unexpected.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/zeea-receives-a-🚫-one-day-ban.898529/

This came after Zeea edited their post for wrongthink using the wrong pronoun accidentally.

I can't help but wonder if this heralds some hair-splitting attempts by mods to whack each other with the banhammer. Will have to keep an eye on things.

That’s the progressive left.  Intentions don’t matter, past behavior doesn’t matter, and there is neither grace nor forgiveness.  Punishment and shaming, though?  They’re all in for those.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 19, 2022, 04:19:28 PM
...The implosion of Athenian democracy. The descent of Rome from a republic into an empire and subsequent fall into the dark ages.

Athens, for example, shifted lawmaking responsibility from their assembly to their courts.  That sounds pretty familiar to what happens here in the US, no?  They began using their government for the benefit of a smaller group of self-interested factions rather than the entire polis.  Sounds pretty familiar, no? They began emphasizing freedom and equality of their non citizens over their citizens. Sounds pretty familiar, no?

As far as Athens goes, it doesn't sound that familiar, since democracy made many comebacks there. When exactly did they implode? Peloponnesian war? Defeat by Alexander? Defeat by Rome? When exactly did they shift responsibilities from the assembly to the courts? (and the members of courts were not long-lasting if I remember correctly) And the Roman empire took a VERY long time to fall into the dark ages.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 19, 2022, 05:06:41 PM
...The implosion of Athenian democracy. The descent of Rome from a republic into an empire and subsequent fall into the dark ages.

Athens, for example, shifted lawmaking responsibility from their assembly to their courts.  That sounds pretty familiar to what happens here in the US, no?  They began using their government for the benefit of a smaller group of self-interested factions rather than the entire polis.  Sounds pretty familiar, no? They began emphasizing freedom and equality of their non citizens over their citizens. Sounds pretty familiar, no?

As far as Athens goes, it doesn't sound that familiar, since democracy made many comebacks there. When exactly did they implode? Peloponnesian war? Defeat by Alexander? Defeat by Rome? When exactly did they shift responsibilities from the assembly to the courts? (and the members of courts were not long-lasting if I remember correctly) And the Roman empire took a VERY long time to fall into the dark ages.
The Roman Empire may have taken a long time to fall, but the Roman Republic as a form of democracy seems to have started to devolve not too long after the 2nd Punic War. The civil war between Marius and Sulla, and the murder of the Gracchi brothers are not signs of a healthy republic.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 19, 2022, 06:01:30 PM
The Roman Empire may have taken a long time to fall, but the Roman Republic as a form of democracy seems to have started to devolve not too long after the 2nd Punic War. The civil war between Marius and Sulla, and the murder of the Gracchi brothers are not signs of a healthy republic.
Sure, but what's that supposed to be the lesson from that? If it's "avoid polarization" (Marius and Sulla were usually seen as political opposites) then sure, I can agree with that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on June 19, 2022, 08:19:45 PM
The Roman Empire may have taken a long time to fall, but the Roman Republic as a form of democracy seems to have started to devolve not too long after the 2nd Punic War. The civil war between Marius and Sulla, and the murder of the Gracchi brothers are not signs of a healthy republic.
Sure, but what's that supposed to be the lesson from that? If it's "avoid polarization" (Marius and Sulla were usually seen as political opposites) then sure, I can agree with that.

The only real lesson is that when everyone thinks that their own voice matters more than their fellow citizens' voices, things are on their way to collapse. Moreso when those in the minority think that special treatment for themselves is equal treatment under the law, or that not agreeing with their wanting to normalize immoral and unlawful behavior somehow makes the other side Nazis...

TBP epitomizes the attention-whore woke immoral in almost a perfect representation in that regard - everyone is alleged to have the same voice there but only those who agree with the party line actually do.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 19, 2022, 09:30:25 PM
Speaking of sick, extremist ideologies, this was unexpected.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/zeea-receives-a-🚫-one-day-ban.898529/

This came after Zeea edited their post for wrongthink using the wrong pronoun accidentally.

I can't help but wonder if this heralds some hair-splitting attempts by mods to whack each other with the banhammer. Will have to keep an eye on things.

Probably a natural slip, because pronons have become so confusing that even hardcore progressives can't help but slip up now and again.
And then an opportunity to parade their zero tolerance with a *snort* one day ban. Oh noes. Can't post on TBP for a whole day.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 20, 2022, 02:30:05 AM
Honestly, these people are just plain power mad.

I'm wondering how long it will be before people there are banned for not actively supporting the mods issues. I mean, Joe gamer just goes there to talk games for a year and logs in to find he's been ban hammered. So he comes in under a different account and sees he got banned because in a year since he joined he has never expressed condemnation of any injustice against lgbtqpocsdijerhveicfi13752 or whatever. Therefore he is tacitly supporting injustice against alphanumeric soup people and is therefore permabanned under rule whatever we feel like.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 20, 2022, 07:38:44 AM
Honestly, these people are just plain power mad.

I'm wondering how long it will be before people there are banned for not actively supporting the mods issues. I mean, Joe gamer just goes there to talk games for a year and logs in to find he's been ban hammered. So he comes in under a different account and sees he got banned because in a year since he joined he has never expressed condemnation of any injustice against lgbtqpocsdijerhveicfi13752 or whatever. Therefore he is tacitly supporting injustice against alphanumeric soup people and is therefore permabanned under rule whatever we feel like.
There has already been instances of what you described on TBP when talking about anime. Threads getting locked because “problematic” aspects of an anime were discussed in a thread, but not reported by the users being the justification. There were just a few posts in a large thread that angered a mod who came across the issue days are the offending posts were made. See this thread for a discussion had on TBP where the mods basically said “We’re not asking you to be narcs, but…we’re asking you to be narcs.”
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/is-this-a-new-policy-thing.876904/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 20, 2022, 08:01:01 AM
Honestly, these people are just plain power mad.

I'm wondering how long it will be before people there are banned for not actively supporting the mods issues. I mean, Joe gamer just goes there to talk games for a year and logs in to find he's been ban hammered. So he comes in under a different account and sees he got banned because in a year since he joined he has never expressed condemnation of any injustice against lgbtqpocsdijerhveicfi13752 or whatever. Therefore he is tacitly supporting injustice against alphanumeric soup people and is therefore permabanned under rule whatever we feel like.
What wmarshal said.

And keep in mind, no matter how clinical the discussion, you run the risk of being banned if you bring up something deemed 'wrongthink'. The classic example, IMO, was the discussion of slavery where two posters ate one month bans for commenting on how slavery was handled in their campaign settings.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 20, 2022, 09:24:42 AM
Speaking of sick, extremist ideologies, this was unexpected.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/zeea-receives-a-🚫-one-day-ban.898529/

This came after Zeea edited their post for wrongthink using the wrong pronoun accidentally.

I can't help but wonder if this heralds some hair-splitting attempts by mods to whack each other with the banhammer. Will have to keep an eye on things.

So Zeea, the moderator, misgendered Ezra Miller, corrected it, self reported, and still got a one day ban.

Stay calm, don't be alarmed
It's just a holiday
Back at the funny farm 😄
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 20, 2022, 10:09:20 AM
Speaking of sick, extremist ideologies, this was unexpected.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/zeea-receives-a-🚫-one-day-ban.898529/

This came after Zeea edited their post for wrongthink using the wrong pronoun accidentally.

I can't help but wonder if this heralds some hair-splitting attempts by mods to whack each other with the banhammer. Will have to keep an eye on things.

So Zeea, the moderator, misgendered Ezra Miller, corrected it, self reported, and still got a one day ban.

Stay calm, don't be alarmed
It's just a holiday
Back at the funny farm 😄
Zeea had sinned against the Woke. As a good believer in the cult a confession was necessary as well as a penance to be paid.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on June 20, 2022, 01:37:23 PM
As a side note, I wonder what would happen if, say,  some really big shot on tbp was accused of something, like threatening to hurt a game designer by blacklisting him if he didn't payola tbp? Or giving a sexual favor? Or saying a tbp mod used a sexist/racist term?  Would that person, oops,  sorry,  persyn, be given what bill Maher called 'summary execution'?

Matt McFarland, aka Black Hat Matt. Former mod at TPB.

https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/arjjyq/growling_door_games_shuts_its_doors_after_abuse/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=0a6b08f55a8b4bcaab7d6ace81fbd199&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=arjjyq

Ah "Good Ole Blackhat Matt" I'm 40, and growing up as a white wolf fan he was my favorite writer and 'Hero'. I read his blog, thought he was cool as hell on all the forums. Wanted to be just like him.

Then he personally handed me my permanent account ban on RPG.net in 2014 and told me I hated women, and in particular must hate my Mother and Sister. A couple years later I appealed to try and come back, and his wife handed me my permanent ban.

Sometimes, it seems like... maybe Karma does exist.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 20, 2022, 05:03:00 PM
Wow.

Ok back to the mods being power mad, honestly I think they have just created this elaborate world where they are gods reifning over all, judging, threatening, punishing, etc. They have their hidden little star chamber court,  act like supreme rulers,  etc.

Just a form of megalomania taken to an extreme in a tiny environment.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 20, 2022, 09:06:20 PM
Ah "Good Ole Blackhat Matt" I'm 40, and growing up as a white wolf fan he was my favorite writer and 'Hero'. I read his blog, thought he was cool as hell on all the forums. Wanted to be just like him.

Then he personally handed me my permanent account ban on RPG.net in 2014 and told me I hated women, and in particular must hate my Mother and Sister. A couple years later I appealed to try and come back, and his wife handed me my permanent ban.

Sometimes, it seems like... maybe Karma does exist.

I remember that guy well, and all his pontificating about believing women and so on. I believe he was pretty instrumental in making the RPG.net rules what they are, but I may be wrong. This sort of hypocrisy is what we call "meeting yourself at the door" in Norway.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 21, 2022, 09:34:20 AM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on June 21, 2022, 10:29:35 AM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.

So, did you follow Kyrsten Sinema into a bathroom or on a plane?  You are so fucking delusionally one-sided, you could hide behind a toothpick.  There were direct threats against Joe Manchin by leftists (the twitter threads were calling for his head... literally) when he refused to support removing the filibuster... 

You know what, you and your partisan blindness is not even worth the effort.  On the ignore list you go...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on June 21, 2022, 10:35:07 AM
growing up as a white wolf fan
First mistake right there. WW has always been a cesspit of extreme progressivism. Their flagship vampire game was originally supposed to be a radical counterculture game where you played as the weakest anarchist vampires fighting against the tyranny of the elders. The premise was co-opted and diluted, but remnants of it informed major aspects of the rules (e.g. generational limits). Their second vampire game removed this limitation and introduced mechanics that allowed characters to advance within the neofeudalist hierarchy through hard work (i.e. paying XP to increase their level) and eventually take the position of elder while the previous one went into stasis Underworld-style, which is very much pro-culture. Naturally fans of the first game hated the second because it "nerfed elders" (to the point where the devs would later introduce books countermanding all their previous creative decisions in a pointless attempt to attract the haters; I know they said they're clarifying what was always their intent, but it looks like capitulating to haters who never play the game); now they complain about V5 being woke and ruining the setting because, among other things, it outright nuked the elders. Do these people even play the game or do they just like reading the books detailing the adventures of the elder GMPCs?

Wasn't Matt later outed as a pedophile after he wrote Beast with pro-abuse rhetoric? God, I wonder how many of these WW people are sex offenders and we never knew about it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 21, 2022, 10:38:52 AM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.

You do know that The Daily KOS was created by the Clintons to counter the media impact of Rush Limbaugh, right?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 21, 2022, 10:42:11 AM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.

  When I see "radical" "right wing" people burning a city, I might believe they exist.  Till then fuck yourself.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 21, 2022, 11:05:28 AM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.

You do know that The Daily KOS was created by the Clintons to counter the media impact of Rush Limbaugh, right?

Daily Kos was founded by Markos Moulitsas in 2002 as his blog, who was a Republican until the late 80s. He eventually became a shill for the Democratic party. He was directly and outspokenly ANTI-CLINTONS.  Not funded or founded in any way by the Clintons. In fact there was a major "strike" by pro-Clinton people against the Daily Kos in 2008 when they were backing Obama and when Daily Kos was publicly saying "Clinton doesn't deserve fairness on this site" because she "fails the test of the guiding principles of this site" and because Clinton had "no reasonable chance of victory".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 21, 2022, 11:16:22 AM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.

  When I see "radical" "right wing" people burning a city, I might believe they exist.  Till then fuck yourself.

Since the capitol was burned in 1814 they remade it to be much more difficult to set on fire anymore. But Jan 6 was plenty enough to demonstrate the same kind of violence. Let's not get it twisted. Radicals destroy property sometimes, regardless of partisanship.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 21, 2022, 11:39:05 AM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.

  When I see "radical" "right wing" people burning a city, I might believe they exist.  Till then fuck yourself.

It'd sure beat fucking you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 21, 2022, 11:41:12 AM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.

You do know that The Daily KOS was created by the Clintons to counter the media impact of Rush Limbaugh, right?

No, I don't know that because I'm not part of the fox news alternate fact (lie)  universe.

It's no surprise you do tho, your avatar is of a character famous for being detached from reality.  I guess the fox news verse suits you especially since you're such a snarky asshole and snark is a big part of what the foxverse offers.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 21, 2022, 11:53:56 AM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.

You do know that The Daily KOS was created by the Clintons to counter the media impact of Rush Limbaugh, right?

No, I don't know that because I'm not part of the fox news alternate fact (lie)  universe.

It's no surprise you do tho, your avatar is of a character famous for being detached from reality.  I guess the fox news verse suits you especially since you're such a snarky asshole and snark is a big part of what the foxverse offers.

Speaking of avatars, yours looks pretty snaky?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 21, 2022, 12:25:58 PM
Squiddy, actually. It's a Phentari from battlelords 23rd century.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on June 21, 2022, 12:40:26 PM
growing up as a white wolf fan
First mistake right there. WW has always been a cesspit of extreme progressivism. Their flagship vampire game was originally supposed to be a radical counterculture game where you played as the weakest anarchist vampires fighting against the tyranny of the elders. The premise was co-opted and diluted, but remnants of it informed major aspects of the rules (e.g. generational limits). Their second vampire game removed this limitation and introduced mechanics that allowed characters to advance within the neofeudalist hierarchy through hard work (i.e. paying XP to increase their level) and eventually take the position of elder while the previous one went into stasis Underworld-style, which is very much pro-culture. Naturally fans of the first game hated the second because it "nerfed elders" (to the point where the devs would later introduce books countermanding all their previous creative decisions in a pointless attempt to attract the haters; I know they said they're clarifying what was always their intent, but it looks like capitulating to haters who never play the game); now they complain about V5 being woke and ruining the setting because, among other things, it outright nuked the elders. Do these people even play the game or do they just like reading the books detailing the adventures of the elder GMPCs?

Wasn't Matt later outed as a pedophile after he wrote Beast with pro-abuse rhetoric? God, I wonder how many of these WW people are sex offenders and we never knew about it.

Crayon I know you hate Whitewolf to the point it seems like it somehow personally molested you, but you're also just flat out wrong when it comes to V5 and 'giving in to the haters'. V5 is still about playing weak ass vampires compared to every other edition, and you have to go to fanmade material in order to put any kind of powerful oomph to elder Vampires.

That's neither here nor there though. I love whitewolf games, and I myself am a Libertarian Leftist. I grew up on a steady diet on Whitewolf's brand of 90s counter-culture. Onyx Path is still a progressive company and has embraced much of the current level of wokeness, but because I enjoy many of their games and worlds still, I'm able to roll my eyes and continue on when it gets too much (and the stuff I buy which is mainly all the 20th anniversary related stuff, tends to do this far less than the Chronicles of Darkness stuff like Beast/Geist/ect does).

Yeah Matt was outed as an alleged rapist for a 16 year old girl when he was 25..

But throwing blanket accusations at the rest of the old school white wolf writers is kind of uncalled for just because you don't like their stuff and their politics. None of the other writers were heavyily active on RPgnet as Mods, virtue signaling to cover up their own shitty behavior.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on June 21, 2022, 01:01:49 PM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.

  When I see "radical" "right wing" people burning a city, I might believe they exist.  Till then fuck yourself.

Since the capitol was burned in 1814 they remade it to be much more difficult to set on fire anymore. But Jan 6 was plenty enough to demonstrate the same kind of violence. Let's not get it twisted. Radicals destroy property sometimes, regardless of partisanship.

I find it hard to take you seriously when you conflate BLM/antifa rioters who literally burnt buildings to the ground, stole millions of dollars of private property (for which the rightful others of those buildings and property probably won't be able to be made whole by their insurance companies) and beat and killed people - with protestors who were let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one.  The worst that they did was some minor vandalizing, stole an overpriced lectern and laptop, and farted on Pelosi's chair.  The only person killed during the tour of the building was an unarmed protestor murdered by a USCP officer, for which the government is covering up the facts. You can be 100% certain that any damage to the building has or will receive full coverage and repair at *your* expense and *mine* as a taxpayer.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 21, 2022, 02:32:50 PM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.

  When I see "radical" "right wing" people burning a city, I might believe they exist.  Till then fuck yourself.

It'd sure beat fucking you.

  Fucking me, is impossible for you.  Fucking yourself is something you do constantly, so I have zero doubts which you prefer.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 21, 2022, 02:36:09 PM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.

  When I see "radical" "right wing" people burning a city, I might believe they exist.  Till then fuck yourself.

Since the capitol was burned in 1814 they remade it to be much more difficult to set on fire anymore. But Jan 6 was plenty enough to demonstrate the same kind of violence. Let's not get it twisted. Radicals destroy property sometimes, regardless of partisanship.

  keep pretending those were the same.  If you get an actual equal right ring parallel  to Burning looting and murdering you might have a heart attack.    You are literally comparing murder to trespass and destruction of property as being equal. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on June 21, 2022, 02:37:09 PM
Since the capitol was burned in 1814 they remade it to be much more difficult to set on fire anymore. But Jan 6 was plenty enough to demonstrate the same kind of violence. Let's not get it twisted. Radicals destroy property sometimes, regardless of partisanship.
Well it has been bombed three times since (1915, 1971, 1983) and congressmen and police have been shot there twice (1954, 1998).

Does anyone remember the May 2020 attack on the White House where 60 Secret Service agents were injured and the President was whisked to a bunker?
And in their frustration at failing to breach the White House grounds they set fire to a 200 year old church.


Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 21, 2022, 03:27:28 PM
Squiddy, actually. It's a Phentari from battlelords 23rd century.

Their description is, "generally nasty dispositions toward life"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 21, 2022, 03:36:41 PM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.

  When I see "radical" "right wing" people burning a city, I might believe they exist.  Till then fuck yourself.

Since the capitol was burned in 1814 they remade it to be much more difficult to set on fire anymore. But Jan 6 was plenty enough to demonstrate the same kind of violence. Let's not get it twisted. Radicals destroy property sometimes, regardless of partisanship.

I find it hard to take you seriously when you conflate BLM/antifa rioters who literally burnt buildings to the ground, stole millions of dollars of private property (for which the rightful others of those buildings and property probably won't be able to be made whole by their insurance companies) and beat and killed people - with protestors who were let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one.  The worst that they did was some minor vandalizing, stole an overpriced lectern and laptop, and farted on Pelosi's chair.  The only person killed during the tour of the building was an unarmed protestor murdered by a USCP officer, for which the government is covering up the facts. You can be 100% certain that any damage to the building has or will receive full coverage and repair at *your* expense and *mine* as a taxpayer.

Again, difficult to burn the capital these days. But they also stole millions of dollars of property, broke millions of dollars more, murdered a police officer, and injured and beat some others. I am not referring to "protestors" which you knew damn well. I am referring to the people who violently broke into the capital and smashed and stole and injured and ultimately murdered. This "harmed nobody" is sheer lunacy:

1) USCP Officer Brian Sicknick was murdered. During the riots, Sicknick was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher and pepper-sprayed twice. The medical examiner determined that played a role in the stroke that claimed his life on returning back to his precinct office injured.

2)  U.S. Capitol Police officer Caroline Edwards, was violently slammed to the ground by protesters breaking through a barrier outside of the Capitol, knocking her unconscious. Edwards suffered a traumatic brain injury in the riot.

3) More than 140 U.S. Capitol Police and D.C. Metropolitan Police officers were injured while defending the grounds that day, according to a Thursday statement from the U.S. Capitol Police Labor Committee. Four officers died by suicide in the aftermath of the attack.

You can't hide from this shit. You can't pretend it's some secret conspiracy or manufactured. It's all on video, often from people with phones who were protestors. You can see it all for yourself. And you should be. When you do, you can't continue to bury your head in the sand in denial that it was all just peaceful and minor. Some of those rioters (who are not to be confused with legit protestors) were in fact violent. Same kind of violence as Antifa/BLM.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 21, 2022, 03:40:57 PM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.

  When I see "radical" "right wing" people burning a city, I might believe they exist.  Till then fuck yourself.

Since the capitol was burned in 1814 they remade it to be much more difficult to set on fire anymore. But Jan 6 was plenty enough to demonstrate the same kind of violence. Let's not get it twisted. Radicals destroy property sometimes, regardless of partisanship.

  keep pretending those were the same.  If you get an actual equal right ring parallel  to Burning looting and murdering you might have a heart attack.    You are literally comparing murder to trespass and destruction of property as being equal.

Dude they murdered a capitol police officer and injured over 100 others including brain injuries. They looted. They destroyed. Yes, they are fucking equal and you don't see it because you won't look. You are acting like it's some Schrödinger's cat where if you don't look at the footage from that day then it somehow didn't happen?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 21, 2022, 03:47:46 PM
1) USCP Officer Brian Sicknick was murdered.
The Chief Medical Examiner of the District of Columbia disagrees with your conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on June 21, 2022, 03:53:05 PM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.

  When I see "radical" "right wing" people burning a city, I might believe they exist.  Till then fuck yourself.

Since the capitol was burned in 1814 they remade it to be much more difficult to set on fire anymore. But Jan 6 was plenty enough to demonstrate the same kind of violence. Let's not get it twisted. Radicals destroy property sometimes, regardless of partisanship.

  keep pretending those were the same.  If you get an actual equal right ring parallel  to Burning looting and murdering you might have a heart attack.    You are literally comparing murder to trespass and destruction of property as being equal.

Dude they murdered a capitol police officer and injured over 100 others including brain injuries. They looted. They destroyed. Yes, they are fucking equal and you don't see it because you won't look. You are acting like it's some Schrödinger's cat where if you don't look at the footage from that day then it somehow didn't happen?
The only brain injury in evidence here is yours, considering I've yet to see an accounting of "millions of dollars of property stolen" and even the DC medical examiner stated that the officer died of a stroke hours later.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 21, 2022, 04:29:52 PM
JFTR,  I get that the woke left is annoying, irritating, shrill, intolerant, ad infinitum.  A lot of the sane progressive left it getting tired of them. Just watch Bill Maher to see.

But you know what? The radical right is a hell of a lot worse. The woke left isn't encouraging violence and murder against even members of their own party that aren't ideologically pure.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/20/2105187/-Republican-candidate-sells-RINO-hunting-license-promoting-shooting-non-MAGA-politician

You know,  the nazi party had a blood purge to clean out those not sufficiently dedicated to the party. It was called 'the night of the long knivess'. The ad above looks like the trump right is setting up their people for their own purge.

  When I see "radical" "right wing" people burning a city, I might believe they exist.  Till then fuck yourself.

Since the capitol was burned in 1814 they remade it to be much more difficult to set on fire anymore. But Jan 6 was plenty enough to demonstrate the same kind of violence. Let's not get it twisted. Radicals destroy property sometimes, regardless of partisanship.

  keep pretending those were the same.  If you get an actual equal right ring parallel  to Burning looting and murdering you might have a heart attack.    You are literally comparing murder to trespass and destruction of property as being equal.

Dude they murdered a capitol police officer and injured over 100 others including brain injuries. They looted. They destroyed. Yes, they are fucking equal and you don't see it because you won't look. You are acting like it's some Schrödinger's cat where if you don't look at the footage from that day then it somehow didn't happen?

  You either did not bother looking into this, or you are simply lying.  They did NOT murder a capitol police officer.  LOL at brain injuries.  I looked at the footage...it looked mostly peaceful and COMPLETELY peaceful compared to actual murder, burning and looting.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 21, 2022, 04:43:05 PM
  But I tell you what, lets keep the trans kids stuff and constant pressure on with CRT and fortifying elections, and there might just end up being some "right wing radical" violence to pop out.  I prefer it does not, but if you keep trying to conjure that boogie man, sooner or later you might get him.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on June 21, 2022, 04:46:33 PM
Since the capitol was burned in 1814 they remade it to be much more difficult to set on fire anymore. But Jan 6 was plenty enough to demonstrate the same kind of violence. Let's not get it twisted. Radicals destroy property sometimes, regardless of partisanship.

I find it hard to take you seriously when you conflate BLM/antifa rioters who literally burnt buildings to the ground, stole millions of dollars of private property (for which the rightful others of those buildings and property probably won't be able to be made whole by their insurance companies) and beat and killed people - with protestors who were let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one.  The worst that they did was some minor vandalizing, stole an overpriced lectern and laptop, and farted on Pelosi's chair.

The Jan 6 rioters didn't kill anyone - but there were 140 officers were injured in the riot, some quite seriously including concussions and losing the tip of a finger. One officer had two cracked ribs, two shattered spinal discs. Others were beaten with clubs and poles, and hit with stun guns and mace. There is video of many of the assaults. cf.

https://youtu.be/QVZvp-Dv0gg?t=78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEGthdTzedk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UwTzm5CCNw

When comparing violence overall between left-wing and right-wing, it's tricky to compare apples and apples. In general, left-wing have more violent mass protests/riots. On the other hand, right-wing have had more violent mass shootings and other attacks. The George Floyd protests are associated with from 12 to 19 or more deaths, which is combining single incidents among dozens of cities across months of protests. On the other hand, the 2019 El Paso shooting claimed 23 lives in a single incident, and there have been other right-wing mass shootings such as church, synagogue, and temple shootings and arson.

The tendency is to dismiss that violence on one's own side is lone nutcases, but violence on the other side shows their true colors - but that tends to show clear bias.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on June 21, 2022, 05:01:35 PM
Remember that the FBI is still hunting for who ever planted the bombs outside the Democratic and Republican party headquarters during the Jan 6 protests.

One day they will find them.

Until then we have the RPGnet to entertain us.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on June 21, 2022, 05:07:44 PM
Since the capitol was burned in 1814 they remade it to be much more difficult to set on fire anymore. But Jan 6 was plenty enough to demonstrate the same kind of violence. Let's not get it twisted. Radicals destroy property sometimes, regardless of partisanship.

I find it hard to take you seriously when you conflate BLM/antifa rioters who literally burnt buildings to the ground, stole millions of dollars of private property (for which the rightful others of those buildings and property probably won't be able to be made whole by their insurance companies) and beat and killed people - with protestors who were let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one.  The worst that they did was some minor vandalizing, stole an overpriced lectern and laptop, and farted on Pelosi's chair.

The Jan 6 rioters didn't kill anyone - but there were 140 officers were injured in the riot, some quite seriously including concussions and losing the tip of a finger. One officer had two cracked ribs, two shattered spinal discs. Others were beaten with clubs and poles, and hit with stun guns and mace. There is video of many of the assaults. cf.

https://youtu.be/QVZvp-Dv0gg?t=78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEGthdTzedk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UwTzm5CCNw

When comparing violence overall between left-wing and right-wing, it's tricky to compare apples and apples. In general, left-wing have more violent mass protests/riots. On the other hand, right-wing have had more violent mass shootings and other attacks. The George Floyd protests are associated with from 12 to 19 or more deaths, which is combining single incidents among dozens of cities across months of protests. On the other hand, the 2019 El Paso shooting claimed 23 lives in a single incident, and there have been other right-wing mass shootings such as church, synagogue, and temple shootings and arson.

The tendency is to dismiss that violence on one's own side is lone nutcases, but violence on the other side shows their true colors - but that tends to show clear bias.

Meanwhile in the far-right hell hole of Chicago, 61 people shot and 10 killed over the holiday weekend all because the NRA stops the government from implementing any kind of gun control.


https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shootings-violence-this-weekend-juneteenth-2022/11984629/ (https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shootings-violence-this-weekend-juneteenth-2022/11984629/)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 21, 2022, 05:11:09 PM
Since the capitol was burned in 1814 they remade it to be much more difficult to set on fire anymore. But Jan 6 was plenty enough to demonstrate the same kind of violence. Let's not get it twisted. Radicals destroy property sometimes, regardless of partisanship.

I find it hard to take you seriously when you conflate BLM/antifa rioters who literally burnt buildings to the ground, stole millions of dollars of private property (for which the rightful others of those buildings and property probably won't be able to be made whole by their insurance companies) and beat and killed people - with protestors who were let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one.  The worst that they did was some minor vandalizing, stole an overpriced lectern and laptop, and farted on Pelosi's chair.

The Jan 6 rioters didn't kill anyone - but there were 140 officers were injured in the riot, some quite seriously including concussions and losing the tip of a finger. One officer had two cracked ribs, two shattered spinal discs. Others were beaten with clubs and poles, and hit with stun guns and mace. There is video of many of the assaults. cf.

https://youtu.be/QVZvp-Dv0gg?t=78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEGthdTzedk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UwTzm5CCNw

When comparing violence overall between left-wing and right-wing, it's tricky to compare apples and apples. In general, left-wing have more violent mass protests/riots. On the other hand, right-wing have had more violent mass shootings and other attacks. The George Floyd protests are associated with from 12 to 19 or more deaths, which is combining single incidents among dozens of cities across months of protests. On the other hand, the 2019 El Paso shooting claimed 23 lives in a single incident, and there have been other right-wing mass shootings such as church, synagogue, and temple shootings and arson.

The tendency is to dismiss that violence on one's own side is lone nutcases, but violence on the other side shows their true colors - but that tends to show clear bias.

        No one but you is comparing violence overall.  You do have a habit of bringing up things no one is discussing.  I never said lefties were anywhere near as GOOD at violence, I am saying the reactions to an incident with little destruction and violence is blown WAY out of proportion to what went across the nation all summer.  If you want to get into the weeds as to whether "my side" is better at fucking people up than "your side", well that is a different discussion.  I agree with you, I am a lot better at fucking people up than you are.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 21, 2022, 05:28:05 PM
1) USCP Officer Brian Sicknick was murdered.
The Chief Medical Examiner of the District of Columbia disagrees with your conspiracy theory.

I literally just quoted him. Not my theory.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 21, 2022, 05:29:47 PM
This is what you guys just described as "let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one. "

No rational human being can watch what happened and honestly pretend they were let into the building, and just wandered about and harmed no one.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 21, 2022, 05:30:51 PM
1) USCP Officer Brian Sicknick was murdered.
The Chief Medical Examiner of the District of Columbia disagrees with your conspiracy theory.

I literally just quoted him. Not my theory.

  Are you sure about that?  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 21, 2022, 05:31:44 PM
This is what you guys just described as "let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one. "

No rational human being can watch what happened and honestly pretend they were let into the building, and just wandered about and harmed no one.


 
   Though I agree with your statement here.....the statement they harmed no one is as true as you acting as if they murdered someone. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on June 21, 2022, 05:50:05 PM
This is what you guys just described as "let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one. "

No rational human being can watch what happened and honestly pretend they were let into the building, and just wandered about and harmed no one.


 
   Though I agree with your statement here.....the statement they harmed no one is as true as you acting as if they murdered someone.

That video looks like an average day in NY, Chicago, Philly, or Detroit.

It, of course, is a lot harder to impose your will as a cop when the Dems turned down providing additional cops or national guard personnel that the President requested they take...

I find it ludicrous that lefties see some slap fighting and think it equal to leftist white thugs burning down buildings in the name of black people when those buildings they burnt down were *owned* by black people.  How's they can compare cops being injured in slap fights to cops in Portland and Seattle and NY being shot or almost being set on fire by leftist white antifa turds.

Then again, leftists recently decided to rename monkeypox to avoid offending Africans when the only ones equating Africans with monkeys are the leftists...  those noble saviors of savage and animalistic blacks and slow-witted conservatives that they see themselves as.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 21, 2022, 05:51:43 PM
This is what you guys just described as "let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one. "

No rational human being can watch what happened and honestly pretend they were let into the building, and just wandered about and harmed no one.


 
   Though I agree with your statement here.....the statement they harmed no one is as true as you acting as if they murdered someone.

We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 21, 2022, 06:01:09 PM
This is what you guys just described as "let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one. "

No rational human being can watch what happened and honestly pretend they were let into the building, and just wandered about and harmed no one.


 
   Though I agree with your statement here.....the statement they harmed no one is as true as you acting as if they murdered someone.

We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.

    Do not say "guys" as I did not describe it that way.  I just said you are full of shit about the murder angle (and the M.E. and apparently the DA agree with me ...https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/)  and you are.    You want to compare trespass and vandalism with murder and arson. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 21, 2022, 06:03:35 PM
  As for DC riots.....you miss the Trump inauguration?  The press did. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 21, 2022, 07:38:13 PM
We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.
Except that's exactly what happened.

There were some unruly but mostly peaceful protesters on one side of the building, who pushed some cops but generally behaved far better than most leftist rioters, because they didn't kill anyone, burn anything down, destroy any businesses, steal any TVs, or even come into the presence of a single lawmaker (except for AOC, who I believe has reported that they killed her at least a dozen times).

But on the other side of the building, the cops opened the barriers, waved people in, and are on video saying things like "I disagree with you, but I respect your right to protest". The protesters were invited in, wandered around, and stayed within the barriers.

And guess which group has been raided by the FBI, held in solitary confinement for over a year with trial, and forced into plea deals with threats of federal crimes with potential prison sentences of more than 20 years? Correct! Members of both groups! They're exactly the same!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 21, 2022, 07:58:27 PM
This is what you guys just described as "let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one. "

No rational human being can watch what happened and honestly pretend they were let into the building, and just wandered about and harmed no one.


 
   Though I agree with your statement here.....the statement they harmed no one is as true as you acting as if they murdered someone.

We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.

    Do not say "guys" as I did not describe it that way.  I just said you are full of shit about the murder angle (and the M.E. and apparently the DA agree with me ...https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/)  and you are.    You want to compare trespass and vandalism with murder and arson.

There is no question they directly intentionally injured police officers. There is no question they did a huge amount of damage. They attacked police. Many were sent to the hospital with real injuries from real violent attacks. There isn't any way to see what happened in those videos, and pretend it's not along the same level as antifa stuff. It's just plain bullshit to pretend otherwise and claim they were "let in" and just "wandered the halls without harming anyone". It's NOT just trespass and vandalism.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 21, 2022, 08:00:27 PM
We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.
Except that's exactly what happened.

There were some unruly but mostly peaceful protesters on one side of the building, who pushed some cops but generally behaved far better than most leftist rioters, because they didn't kill anyone, burn anything down, destroy any businesses, steal any TVs, or even come into the presence of a single lawmaker (except for AOC, who I believe has reported that they killed her at least a dozen times).

But on the other side of the building, the cops opened the barriers, waved people in, and are on video saying things like "I disagree with you, but I respect your right to protest". The protesters were invited in, wandered around, and stayed within the barriers.

And guess which group has been raided by the FBI, held in solitary confinement for over a year with trial, and forced into plea deals with threats of federal crimes with potential prison sentences of more than 20 years? Correct! Members of both groups! They're exactly the same!

Naw man, you're refusing to watch the video of what happened. Because that's what you do. They directly assault police with intent to injure them. No escaping that conclusion. They were not "unruly" they were attacking police with weapons. Just fucking watch the video Pat. Stop this ostrich stuff.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 21, 2022, 08:02:26 PM
We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.
Except that's exactly what happened.

There were some unruly but mostly peaceful protesters on one side of the building, who pushed some cops but generally behaved far better than most leftist rioters, because they didn't kill anyone, burn anything down, destroy any businesses, steal any TVs, or even come into the presence of a single lawmaker (except for AOC, who I believe has reported that they killed her at least a dozen times).

But on the other side of the building, the cops opened the barriers, waved people in, and are on video saying things like "I disagree with you, but I respect your right to protest". The protesters were invited in, wandered around, and stayed within the barriers.

And guess which group has been raided by the FBI, held in solitary confinement for over a year with trial, and forced into plea deals with threats of federal crimes with potential prison sentences of more than 20 years? Correct! Members of both groups! They're exactly the same!

Naw man, you're refusing to watch the video of what happened. Because that's what you do. They directly assault police with intent to injure them. No escaping that conclusion. They were not "unruly" they were attacking police with weapons. Just fucking watch the video Pat. Stop this ostrich stuff.
So you didn't read a word of what I said.

Not a word.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on June 21, 2022, 08:04:19 PM
1) USCP Officer Brian Sicknick was murdered.
The Chief Medical Examiner of the District of Columbia disagrees with your conspiracy theory.

I literally just quoted him. Not my theory.

  Are you sure about that?  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/
CBS can't even bring itself to admit the "chemical substance" is known as "pepper spray".
Even Wikipedia gets it right:
"There was no evidence that Sicknick had any injuries or an allergic reaction to the chemical spray, according to a statement by the medical examiner months later.  Sicknick texted his brother on Wednesday night after the riot, reporting that he had been twice attacked with pepper spray and was in good shape.  However, Sicknick later collapsed around 10 p.m. at the Capitol and was taken to a local hospital."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on June 21, 2022, 08:31:21 PM
growing up as a white wolf fan
First mistake right there. WW has always been a cesspit of extreme progressivism. Their flagship vampire game was originally supposed to be a radical counterculture game where you played as the weakest anarchist vampires fighting against the tyranny of the elders. The premise was co-opted and diluted, but remnants of it informed major aspects of the rules (e.g. generational limits). Their second vampire game removed this limitation and introduced mechanics that allowed characters to advance within the neofeudalist hierarchy through hard work (i.e. paying XP to increase their level) and eventually take the position of elder while the previous one went into stasis Underworld-style, which is very much pro-culture. Naturally fans of the first game hated the second because it "nerfed elders" (to the point where the devs would later introduce books countermanding all their previous creative decisions in a pointless attempt to attract the haters; I know they said they're clarifying what was always their intent, but it looks like capitulating to haters who never play the game); now they complain about V5 being woke and ruining the setting because, among other things, it outright nuked the elders. Do these people even play the game or do they just like reading the books detailing the adventures of the elder GMPCs?

Wasn't Matt later outed as a pedophile after he wrote Beast with pro-abuse rhetoric? God, I wonder how many of these WW people are sex offenders and we never knew about it.

Crayon I know you hate Whitewolf to the point it seems like it somehow personally molested you, but you're also just flat out wrong when it comes to V5 and 'giving in to the haters'. V5 is still about playing weak ass vampires compared to every other edition, and you have to go to fanmade material in order to put any kind of powerful oomph to elder Vampires.

That's neither here nor there though. I love whitewolf games, and I myself am a Libertarian Leftist. I grew up on a steady diet on Whitewolf's brand of 90s counter-culture. Onyx Path is still a progressive company and has embraced much of the current level of wokeness, but because I enjoy many of their games and worlds still, I'm able to roll my eyes and continue on when it gets too much (and the stuff I buy which is mainly all the 20th anniversary related stuff, tends to do this far less than the Chronicles of Darkness stuff like Beast/Geist/ect does).

Yeah Matt was outed as an alleged rapist for a 16 year old girl when he was 25..

But throwing blanket accusations at the rest of the old school white wolf writers is kind of uncalled for just because you don't like their stuff and their politics. None of the other writers were heavyily active on RPgnet as Mods, virtue signaling to cover up their own shitty behavior.
The second game I was talking about was Requiem, not V5. They previously had mechanics like the fog of ages and the call to hibernation which they completely reversed in later books after haters complained they didn’t copy Masquerade, which incidentally rendered the unconquered coven completely pointless because it originally operated on the basis that newbies really could become elders if they worked hard.

V5 just nuked the elders outright. Had the hunters kill them all or had them fuck off to Mesopotamia. Which neatly invalidates the whole “fight the tyranny of the elders” premise.

So fuck WW/Onyx/Paradox/whoever for not being able to commit to a coherent creative vision, and fuck their whiny fans that don’t have the good sense to go make their own games if they don’t like WW anymore. It worked for the OSR, so it should be good enough for those entitled validation-seeking shits
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 21, 2022, 08:35:39 PM
This is what you guys just described as "let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one. "

No rational human being can watch what happened and honestly pretend they were let into the building, and just wandered about and harmed no one.


 
   Though I agree with your statement here.....the statement they harmed no one is as true as you acting as if they murdered someone.

We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.

    Do not say "guys" as I did not describe it that way.  I just said you are full of shit about the murder angle (and the M.E. and apparently the DA agree with me ...https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/)  and you are.    You want to compare trespass and vandalism with murder and arson.

There is no question they directly intentionally injured police officers. There is no question they did a huge amount of damage. They attacked police. Many were sent to the hospital with real injuries from real violent attacks. There isn't any way to see what happened in those videos, and pretend it's not along the same level as antifa stuff. It's just plain bullshit to pretend otherwise and claim they were "let in" and just "wandered the halls without harming anyone". It's NOT just trespass and vandalism.

    But did not commit murder.  You keep obfuscating or pretending they did.  Did NOT commit murder.  Which Antifa did.  as well as arson.   I also want to revoke the person's card who built that gallows...do they not teach shop class anymore? 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on June 21, 2022, 09:35:48 PM
There is no question they directly intentionally injured police officers. There is no question they did a huge amount of damage. They attacked police. Many were sent to the hospital with real injuries from real violent attacks. There isn't any way to see what happened in those videos, and pretend it's not along the same level as antifa stuff. It's just plain bullshit to pretend otherwise and claim they were "let in" and just "wandered the halls without harming anyone". It's NOT just trespass and vandalism.

    But did not commit murder.  You keep obfuscating or pretending they did.  Did NOT commit murder.  Which Antifa did.  as well as arson.

Conversely, though, you claimed (in reply #1658) that the only thing the Jan 6 rioters did was trespass and destroy property - which is also false. Mistwell specifically claims that Sicknick's death immediately following injuries at the Jan 6 riots was murder, saying that his fatal stroke hours after being pepper-sprayed was causal. I wouldn't call it that based on the medical examiner's report. Even if his stroke was a direct result of being sprayed, though, that wouldn't make all 2000+ the Jan 6 rioters murderers.

Though equally, not all Antifa are murderers if one of them commits murder either. The one antifa murder that I know of is Michael Reinoehl's killing of Aaron Danielson. It seems like Reinoehl was guilty, but he also acted alone. There are many thousands of people who call themselves antifa and there is no central organization. Antifa as a whole are violent and have committed many assaults and property destruction as part of their stated ideology, and I think it's fair to condemn them as a whole for that, but not for the actions of every individual.

There are many left-wing murderers outside of antifa, but then there are plenty of right-wing murderers as well. Given a country of 330 million with 16,000+ murders every year, it's to be expected. Our level of political violence right now remains thankfully low compared to other divisive historical periods like the 1960s or the 1920s, but it is still unacceptable.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 21, 2022, 10:19:20 PM
We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.
Except that's exactly what happened.

There were some unruly but mostly peaceful protesters on one side of the building, who pushed some cops but generally behaved far better than most leftist rioters, because they didn't kill anyone, burn anything down, destroy any businesses, steal any TVs, or even come into the presence of a single lawmaker (except for AOC, who I believe has reported that they killed her at least a dozen times).

But on the other side of the building, the cops opened the barriers, waved people in, and are on video saying things like "I disagree with you, but I respect your right to protest". The protesters were invited in, wandered around, and stayed within the barriers.

And guess which group has been raided by the FBI, held in solitary confinement for over a year with trial, and forced into plea deals with threats of federal crimes with potential prison sentences of more than 20 years? Correct! Members of both groups! They're exactly the same!

Naw man, you're refusing to watch the video of what happened. Because that's what you do. They directly assault police with intent to injure them. No escaping that conclusion. They were not "unruly" they were attacking police with weapons. Just fucking watch the video Pat. Stop this ostrich stuff.
So you didn't read a word of what I said.

Not a word.

"There were some unruly but mostly peaceful protesters on one side of the building, who pushed some cops but generally behaved far better than most leftist rioters"

That is not a rational thought for anyone who watched what happened.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 21, 2022, 10:54:48 PM
We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.
Except that's exactly what happened.

There were some unruly but mostly peaceful protesters on one side of the building, who pushed some cops but generally behaved far better than most leftist rioters, because they didn't kill anyone, burn anything down, destroy any businesses, steal any TVs, or even come into the presence of a single lawmaker (except for AOC, who I believe has reported that they killed her at least a dozen times).

But on the other side of the building, the cops opened the barriers, waved people in, and are on video saying things like "I disagree with you, but I respect your right to protest". The protesters were invited in, wandered around, and stayed within the barriers.

And guess which group has been raided by the FBI, held in solitary confinement for over a year with trial, and forced into plea deals with threats of federal crimes with potential prison sentences of more than 20 years? Correct! Members of both groups! They're exactly the same!

Naw man, you're refusing to watch the video of what happened. Because that's what you do. They directly assault police with intent to injure them. No escaping that conclusion. They were not "unruly" they were attacking police with weapons. Just fucking watch the video Pat. Stop this ostrich stuff.
So you didn't read a word of what I said.

Not a word.

"There were some unruly but mostly peaceful protesters on one side of the building, who pushed some cops but generally behaved far better than most leftist rioters"

That is not a rational thought for anyone who watched what happened.
It absolutely is. They burned down no buildings. They weren't in the elevators, screaming in the face of legislators. They didn't kill anyone. They behaved far better than most leftist rioters.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 21, 2022, 11:03:08 PM
If black protesters pushed police who were attacking them, they would have been gunned down En masse. The Trump crowd wants to see black protestors beaten down, gassed and shot.  But when they attack cops,  beat them with poles and fire extinguishers it's all good. And they whine about ashli babbit being killed but cheer about George Floyd's murder.

Fucking hypocritical scum.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 21, 2022, 11:32:55 PM
If black protesters pushed police who were attacking them, they would have been gunned down En masse.
We've had years of black (and lily white Antifa) protesters violently engaging with cops, and no massacres.

Are you really this fucking racist?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on June 21, 2022, 11:40:42 PM
If black protesters pushed police who were attacking them, they would have been gunned down En masse.

False.  We had ongoing BLM riots and this didn’t happen, even when they attacked and burned a police station.

The Trump crowd wants to see black protestors beaten down, gassed and shot.

False, but false accusations of racism are to be expected these days.

But when they attack cops,  beat them with poles and fire extinguishers it's all good.

This has already been addressed upthread.  Repeating a falsehood doesn’t make it suddenly true.

And they whine about ashli babbit being killed but cheer about George Floyd's murder.

Fucking hypocritical scum.

Whatever helps you feel better about yourself, man.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 21, 2022, 11:47:22 PM
If black protesters pushed police who were attacking them, they would have been gunned down En masse. The Trump crowd wants to see black protestors beaten down, gassed and shot.  But when they attack cops,  beat them with poles and fire extinguishers it's all good. And they whine about ashli babbit being killed but cheer about George Floyd's murder.

Fucking hypocritical scum.

List George Floyd's redeeming qualities. All I've been able to find is that he was a criminal junkie.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 22, 2022, 12:26:28 AM
This is what you guys just described as "let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one. "

No rational human being can watch what happened and honestly pretend they were let into the building, and just wandered about and harmed no one.



The Democrats desperately want to draw attention away from Sleepy Joe and his terrible presidency.

The Jan 6 riots were stupid and dangerous. The one death was the woman who was shot by security. But the Dems are using this event for political leverage, nothing more.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 22, 2022, 12:29:34 AM
If black protesters pushed police who were attacking them, they would have been gunned down En masse.



We've literally had two years of demonstrations to the contrary.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 22, 2022, 01:20:50 AM
We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.
Except that's exactly what happened.

There were some unruly but mostly peaceful protesters on one side of the building, who pushed some cops but generally behaved far better than most leftist rioters, because they didn't kill anyone, burn anything down, destroy any businesses, steal any TVs, or even come into the presence of a single lawmaker (except for AOC, who I believe has reported that they killed her at least a dozen times).

But on the other side of the building, the cops opened the barriers, waved people in, and are on video saying things like "I disagree with you, but I respect your right to protest". The protesters were invited in, wandered around, and stayed within the barriers.

And guess which group has been raided by the FBI, held in solitary confinement for over a year with trial, and forced into plea deals with threats of federal crimes with potential prison sentences of more than 20 years? Correct! Members of both groups! They're exactly the same!

Naw man, you're refusing to watch the video of what happened. Because that's what you do. They directly assault police with intent to injure them. No escaping that conclusion. They were not "unruly" they were attacking police with weapons. Just fucking watch the video Pat. Stop this ostrich stuff.
So you didn't read a word of what I said.

Not a word.

"There were some unruly but mostly peaceful protesters on one side of the building, who pushed some cops but generally behaved far better than most leftist rioters"

That is not a rational thought for anyone who watched what happened.
It absolutely is. They burned down no buildings. They weren't in the elevators, screaming in the face of legislators. They didn't kill anyone. They behaved far better than most leftist rioters.

Again, you've failed to mention what they did do, telling me you are not aware of what they did. Tell me Pat, what did they do with the big metal pipes? Easy answer if you watched the actual footage.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 22, 2022, 01:24:24 AM

But when they attack cops,  beat them with poles and fire extinguishers it's all good.

This has already been addressed upthread.  Repeating a falsehood doesn’t make it suddenly true.


Wait, are you arguing they didn't attack cops and beat them with poles and fire extinguishers on Jan 6?

Because damn, that's exactly what I am talking about when I say people here are refusing to watch the actual footage of what happened on Jan 6.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 22, 2022, 01:26:31 AM
This is what you guys just described as "let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one. "

No rational human being can watch what happened and honestly pretend they were let into the building, and just wandered about and harmed no one.


 
   Though I agree with your statement here.....the statement they harmed no one is as true as you acting as if they murdered someone.

We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.

    Do not say "guys" as I did not describe it that way.  I just said you are full of shit about the murder angle (and the M.E. and apparently the DA agree with me ...https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/)  and you are.    You want to compare trespass and vandalism with murder and arson.

There is no question they directly intentionally injured police officers. There is no question they did a huge amount of damage. They attacked police. Many were sent to the hospital with real injuries from real violent attacks. There isn't any way to see what happened in those videos, and pretend it's not along the same level as antifa stuff. It's just plain bullshit to pretend otherwise and claim they were "let in" and just "wandered the halls without harming anyone". It's NOT just trespass and vandalism.

    But did not commit murder.  You keep obfuscating or pretending they did.  Did NOT commit murder.  Which Antifa did.  as well as arson.   I also want to revoke the person's card who built that gallows...do they not teach shop class anymore?

They beat a cop over the head with a fire extinguisher and pepper sprayed him in the face. He limped out of there, returned to his precinct, had multiple strokes and died. Coroner said beating him over the head and pepper spray was a contributing factor to his death but not the only factor. You can call that whatever you want, but I feel certain if Antifa does that you wouldn't be trying to minimize it like you're doing now.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on June 22, 2022, 01:31:17 AM
If black protesters pushed police who were attacking them, they would have been gunned down En masse. The Trump crowd wants to see black protestors beaten down, gassed and shot.  But when they attack cops,  beat them with poles and fire extinguishers it's all good. And they whine about ashli babbit being killed but cheer about George Floyd's murder.

Fucking hypocritical scum.

It is even worse then that!

If black people were ever allowed to legally own guns in the US of A then there would be so much new gun legislation passed that it would make your head spin just watching it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 22, 2022, 02:41:05 AM
This is what you guys just described as "let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one. "

No rational human being can watch what happened and honestly pretend they were let into the building, and just wandered about and harmed no one.


 
   Though I agree with your statement here.....the statement they harmed no one is as true as you acting as if they murdered someone.

We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.

    Do not say "guys" as I did not describe it that way.  I just said you are full of shit about the murder angle (and the M.E. and apparently the DA agree with me ...https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/)  and you are.    You want to compare trespass and vandalism with murder and arson.

There is no question they directly intentionally injured police officers. There is no question they did a huge amount of damage. They attacked police. Many were sent to the hospital with real injuries from real violent attacks. There isn't any way to see what happened in those videos, and pretend it's not along the same level as antifa stuff. It's just plain bullshit to pretend otherwise and claim they were "let in" and just "wandered the halls without harming anyone". It's NOT just trespass and vandalism.

    But did not commit murder.  You keep obfuscating or pretending they did.  Did NOT commit murder.  Which Antifa did.  as well as arson.   I also want to revoke the person's card who built that gallows...do they not teach shop class anymore?

They beat a cop over the head with a fire extinguisher and pepper sprayed him in the face. He limped out of there, returned to his precinct, had multiple strokes and died. Coroner said beating him over the head and pepper spray was a contributing factor to his death but not the only factor. You can call that whatever you want, but I feel certain if Antifa does that you wouldn't be trying to minimize it like you're doing now.

You talking about Sicknick?

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/19/988876722/capitol-police-officer-brian-sicknick-died-of-natural-causes-medical-examiner-ru
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 22, 2022, 04:26:45 AM
We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.
Except that's exactly what happened.

There were some unruly but mostly peaceful protesters on one side of the building, who pushed some cops but generally behaved far better than most leftist rioters, because they didn't kill anyone, burn anything down, destroy any businesses, steal any TVs, or even come into the presence of a single lawmaker (except for AOC, who I believe has reported that they killed her at least a dozen times).

But on the other side of the building, the cops opened the barriers, waved people in, and are on video saying things like "I disagree with you, but I respect your right to protest". The protesters were invited in, wandered around, and stayed within the barriers.

And guess which group has been raided by the FBI, held in solitary confinement for over a year with trial, and forced into plea deals with threats of federal crimes with potential prison sentences of more than 20 years? Correct! Members of both groups! They're exactly the same!

Naw man, you're refusing to watch the video of what happened. Because that's what you do. They directly assault police with intent to injure them. No escaping that conclusion. They were not "unruly" they were attacking police with weapons. Just fucking watch the video Pat. Stop this ostrich stuff.
So you didn't read a word of what I said.

Not a word.

"There were some unruly but mostly peaceful protesters on one side of the building, who pushed some cops but generally behaved far better than most leftist rioters"

That is not a rational thought for anyone who watched what happened.
It absolutely is. They burned down no buildings. They weren't in the elevators, screaming in the face of legislators. They didn't kill anyone. They behaved far better than most leftist rioters.

Again, you've failed to mention what they did do, telling me you are not aware of what they did. Tell me Pat, what did they do with the big metal pipes? Easy answer if you watched the actual footage.
Why don't you just address what I said, instead of making up these stupid little tests?

Go back. Read what I wrote. I literally said they were unruly. I contrasted them with the protesters on the other side of the building. I explicitly listed a handful of ways in which leftist rioters were worse, and they were very severe cases like arson and murder.

The claims you've made about me are false, and it's completely unreasonable for you to have drawn those conclusions. But I'm not going to clarify that further, because to do so would require I jump through these stupid and insulting hoops you've set up. I'm not a pet performing for your amusement. But this hoop you're demanding I jump through? It's utterly nonsensical based on what I've actually said.

I have very little tolerance for stupid games like this anymore, especially from someone like you who has acted so absolutely despicably toward me in the past.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on June 22, 2022, 06:36:52 AM
If black protesters pushed police who were attacking them, they would have been gunned down En masse. The Trump crowd wants to see black protestors beaten down, gassed and shot.  But when they attack cops,  beat them with poles and fire extinguishers it's all good. And they whine about ashli babbit being killed but cheer about George Floyd's murder.

Fucking hypocritical scum.

List George Floyd's redeeming qualities. All I've been able to find is that he was a criminal junkie.
He had family that loved him, which would be enough,  but there shouldn't need to be a reason not to kill someone.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 22, 2022, 06:57:15 AM
If black protesters pushed police who were attacking them, they would have been gunned down En masse. The Trump crowd wants to see black protestors beaten down, gassed and shot.  But when they attack cops,  beat them with poles and fire extinguishers it's all good. And they whine about ashli babbit being killed but cheer about George Floyd's murder.

Fucking hypocritical scum.

List George Floyd's redeeming qualities. All I've been able to find is that he was a criminal junkie.
He had family that loved him, which would be enough,  but there shouldn't need to be a reason not to kill someone.

Don't try reasoning with jeffy, he'll just call you a pedo. I see a lot of posts like his on hate sites I scan for warning about what his kind might be up to.

Also,  as eludes jeffy's childish shitlord mind, it took beqrky 9 minutes to murder Floyd, that was no accident.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 22, 2022, 07:08:33 AM
If black protesters pushed police who were attacking them, they would have been gunned down En masse. The Trump crowd wants to see black protestors beaten down, gassed and shot.  But when they attack cops,  beat them with poles and fire extinguishers it's all good. And they whine about ashli babbit being killed but cheer about George Floyd's murder.

Fucking hypocritical scum.

List George Floyd's redeeming qualities. All I've been able to find is that he was a criminal junkie.
He had family that loved him, which would be enough,  but there shouldn't need to be a reason not to kill someone.

Don't try reasoning with jeffy, he'll just call you a pedo. I see a lot of posts like his on hate sites I scan for warning about what his kind might be up to.

Also,  as eludes jeffy's childish shitlord mind, it took beqrky 9 minutes to murder Floyd, that was no accident.

Good morning, groomer!

Since you couldn't list any of George Floyd's redeeming qualities, I guess that we can assume that he was exactly what he seemed. A criminal junkie. No loss by his death. Evolution in action.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on June 22, 2022, 07:44:15 AM
If black protesters pushed police who were attacking them, they would have been gunned down En masse. The Trump crowd wants to see black protestors beaten down, gassed and shot.  But when they attack cops,  beat them with poles and fire extinguishers it's all good. And they whine about ashli babbit being killed but cheer about George Floyd's murder.

Fucking hypocritical scum.

List George Floyd's redeeming qualities. All I've been able to find is that he was a criminal junkie.
He had family that loved him, which would be enough,  but there shouldn't need to be a reason not to kill someone.

Don't try reasoning with jeffy, he'll just call you a pedo. I see a lot of posts like his on hate sites I scan for warning about what his kind might be up to.

Also,  as eludes jeffy's childish shitlord mind, it took beqrky 9 minutes to murder Floyd, that was no accident.

Good morning, groomer!

Since you couldn't list any of George Floyd's redeeming qualities, I guess that we can assume that he was exactly what he seemed. A criminal junkie. No loss by his death. Evolution in action.
Well, Jeffy, since I can't think of any redeeming qualities of yours, I guess that means you might as well off yourself.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 22, 2022, 07:47:27 AM
So jeffy, a person has to have some redeeming trait to not be murdered? What are your traits that you feel make you worthy of life then? Calling people pedophiles? Shitlording? Being a shitsucking cumsickle? A neonazi? You sure sound like one when you talk about Floyd.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on June 22, 2022, 07:51:18 AM
If black protesters pushed police who were attacking them, they would have been gunned down En masse. The Trump crowd wants to see black protestors beaten down, gassed and shot.  But when they attack cops,  beat them with poles and fire extinguishers it's all good. And they whine about ashli babbit being killed but cheer about George Floyd's murder.

Fucking hypocritical scum.

List George Floyd's redeeming qualities. All I've been able to find is that he was a criminal junkie.

"He wuz a goo' boy an' wuz tryna get hiz life aroun. He dindu nuffin wrong..." is what you'll hear from St. Floyd's supporters as they ignore the fact that he was supposed to be visiting his daughter but instead, was stopped with his drug dealer while high and trying to pass counterfeit money. 

Really want to judge the content of his character and of his family? How much of the $27M settlement that the Minneapolis taxpayers footed the bill for is in a trust fund for his kids?  How much of the GoFundMe set up for them has been wasted?  How much of the millions raised by his brother are set aside for his kids?  How many family and friends have come out of the woodwork for a piece of the pie?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 22, 2022, 08:30:55 AM
If black protesters pushed police who were attacking them, they would have been gunned down En masse. The Trump crowd wants to see black protestors beaten down, gassed and shot.  But when they attack cops,  beat them with poles and fire extinguishers it's all good. And they whine about ashli babbit being killed but cheer about George Floyd's murder.

Fucking hypocritical scum.

List George Floyd's redeeming qualities. All I've been able to find is that he was a criminal junkie.

"He wuz a goo' boy an' wuz tryna get hiz life aroun. He dindu nuffin wrong..."

Wow! That's s exactly the same words I see on white supremacist websites when I scan them for leads on what that kind is up to. Exactly the same words. ''Dindu'' is used pretty much only on hardcore racist sites. Thanks for proving what tge far 👉 really is.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 22, 2022, 08:32:42 AM
Disregard simping for Fentanyl Floyd, acquire stupid TBP takes.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dragox27-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban-hostile-posting.898623/

Now, Dragox27 is coming in hot here, but it does seem bizarre to withhold actual monster construction rules for a game where the PCs hunt monsters. But I suspect someone got their fee-fees hurt, so off to the gulag he goes.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/kite474-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-group-attack.898624/

Anemic. I would like to note that half the time TBP mods don't even reprimand people for group attacks against the Emmanuel Goldsteins of the site.

---

Also, Battlemaster, stop trying to polish the turd that was George Floyd's life. He was a drug addict and thug. If he'd quietly expired in his car, nobody would care (and honestly, it would've been better for everyone if he had).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 22, 2022, 09:16:29 AM
If black protesters pushed police who were attacking them, they would have been gunned down En masse. The Trump crowd wants to see black protestors beaten down, gassed and shot…..

I can’t believe people keep repeating this “if they were black” nonsense.

Did you see what actually went down in 2020? BLM protestors went apeshit and the police in many cities were just ordered to do nothing. It was insane.

Moreover, I’ve seen this in action myself, some of it even BEFORE George Floyd.  A black guy in a park here created a ruckus picking a fight with some Latinos selling hot dogs. When the police came, he shouted that there are cameras everywhere, and they stopped in their tracks. Another one threatened people in a restaurant here, and the owners didn’t dare to call the police, because black. They just gave him money to make him leave.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 22, 2022, 11:35:03 AM
If black protesters pushed police who were attacking them, they would have been gunned down En masse. The Trump crowd wants to see black protestors beaten down, gassed and shot.  But when they attack cops,  beat them with poles and fire extinguishers it's all good. And they whine about ashli babbit being killed but cheer about George Floyd's murder.

Fucking hypocritical scum.

List George Floyd's redeeming qualities. All I've been able to find is that he was a criminal junkie.
He had family that loved him, which would be enough,  but there shouldn't need to be a reason not to kill someone.

Don't try reasoning with jeffy, he'll just call you a pedo. I see a lot of posts like his on hate sites I scan for warning about what his kind might be up to.

Also,  as eludes jeffy's childish shitlord mind, it took beqrky 9 minutes to murder Floyd, that was no accident.

Good morning, groomer!

Since you couldn't list any of George Floyd's redeeming qualities, I guess that we can assume that he was exactly what he seemed. A criminal junkie. No loss by his death. Evolution in action.
Well, Jeffy, since I can't think of any redeeming qualities of yours, I guess that means you might as well off yourself.

Sorry, but that only works with criminal junkies.

Because obviously you can't do your own dirty work.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on June 22, 2022, 11:38:24 AM
If black protesters pushed police who were attacking them, they would have been gunned down En masse. The Trump crowd wants to see black protestors beaten down, gassed and shot.  But when they attack cops,  beat them with poles and fire extinguishers it's all good. And they whine about ashli babbit being killed but cheer about George Floyd's murder.

Fucking hypocritical scum.

List George Floyd's redeeming qualities. All I've been able to find is that he was a criminal junkie.

"He wuz a goo' boy an' wuz tryna get hiz life aroun. He dindu nuffin wrong..."

Wow! That's s exactly the same words I see on white supremacist websites when I scan them for leads on what that kind is up to. Exactly the same words. ''Dindu'' is used pretty much only on hardcore racist sites. Thanks for proving what tge far 👉 really is.

It's not inaccurate to state that that *is* what his uneducated, illiterate, antisocial supporters sound like.  Thugs never sound like Shakespearean actors because they come from broken homes without fathers where their family and friends have an active disdain for education and breaking out of institutional/generational poverty.  Democrats and other leftists don't give a fuck about actually helping them become productive members of society - they want them to stay on that Dem plantation.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 22, 2022, 11:49:59 AM
So jeffy, a person has to have some redeeming trait to not be murdered? What are your traits that you feel make you worthy of life then? Calling people pedophiles? Shitlording? Being a shitsucking cumsickle? A neonazi? You sure sound like one when you talk about Floyd.

In order - Yes (especially when they are nothing but a criminal junkie), I am worthy of living simply by mocking idiot libtards like yourself thus protecting a portion of civilization from leftist deconstruction, and the sputtering fury of a leftist lunatic who acts guilty when called a groomer just makes me smile.

And you know what? George Floyd may have lived if he hadn't been strung out on fentanyl, but he was a criminal junkie who is now dead. He wasn't a hero. He wasn't an upstanding citizen. George Floyd was a loser who hurt other people in order to feed his addiction that a gang of proudly trained Marxists propped up to make simps like you masturbate your emotions for their benefit.

How much money did you donate to BLM that they then used to buy real estate?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on June 22, 2022, 12:03:44 PM
So jeffy, a person has to have some redeeming trait to not be murdered? What are your traits that you feel make you worthy of life then? Calling people pedophiles? Shitlording? Being a shitsucking cumsickle? A neonazi? You sure sound like one when you talk about Floyd.

In order - Yes (especially when they are nothing but a criminal junkie), I am worthy of living simply by mocking idiot libtards like yourself thus protecting a portion of civilization from leftist deconstruction, and the sputtering fury of a leftist lunatic who acts guilty when called a groomer just makes me smile.

And you know what? George Floyd may have lived if he hadn't been strung out on fentanyl, but he was a criminal junkie who is now dead. He wasn't a hero. He wasn't an upstanding citizen. George Floyd was a loser who hurt other people in order to feed his addiction that a gang of proudly trained Marxists propped up to make simps like you masturbate your emotions for their benefit.

How much money did you donate to BLM that they then used to buy real estate?

Wasn't TBP actively simping for people to buy the BLM bundle at DTRPG at the time?  Yes, yes they were. When I questioned where the money was going over on TBP's cousin ENW and for pooh-poohed by the drones over there, with some claiming that rioting was just fine by them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 22, 2022, 12:51:42 PM
I wish you know wingnuts had the balls to start your boogaloo, because then it'll be legal to do what I'd like to...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 22, 2022, 01:27:32 PM
I wish you know wingnuts had the balls to start your boogaloo, because then it'll be legal to do what I'd like to...

  It's legal for you to get fucked up now, on your part. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 22, 2022, 01:38:00 PM
This is what you guys just described as "let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one. "

No rational human being can watch what happened and honestly pretend they were let into the building, and just wandered about and harmed no one.


 
   Though I agree with your statement here.....the statement they harmed no one is as true as you acting as if they murdered someone.

We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.

    Do not say "guys" as I did not describe it that way.  I just said you are full of shit about the murder angle (and the M.E. and apparently the DA agree with me ...https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/)  and you are.    You want to compare trespass and vandalism with murder and arson.

There is no question they directly intentionally injured police officers. There is no question they did a huge amount of damage. They attacked police. Many were sent to the hospital with real injuries from real violent attacks. There isn't any way to see what happened in those videos, and pretend it's not along the same level as antifa stuff. It's just plain bullshit to pretend otherwise and claim they were "let in" and just "wandered the halls without harming anyone". It's NOT just trespass and vandalism.

    But did not commit murder.  You keep obfuscating or pretending they did.  Did NOT commit murder.  Which Antifa did.  as well as arson.   I also want to revoke the person's card who built that gallows...do they not teach shop class anymore?

They beat a cop over the head with a fire extinguisher and pepper sprayed him in the face. He limped out of there, returned to his precinct, had multiple strokes and died. Coroner said beating him over the head and pepper spray was a contributing factor to his death but not the only factor. You can call that whatever you want, but I feel certain if Antifa does that you wouldn't be trying to minimize it like you're doing now.

   Not relevant to the fact they DID NOT MURDER him as per the official medical report from the Medical examiner, and he died of natural causes.  You suggest I am minimizing something, while you seem to completely ignore the reality you are amplifying something, with an outright lie, while attempting to lecture me about what I need to focus concern on.  Hard pass on a lecture on morals from you, a liar.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 22, 2022, 01:42:33 PM
So jeffy, a person has to have some redeeming trait to not be murdered? What are your traits that you feel make you worthy of life then? Calling people pedophiles? Shitlording? Being a shitsucking cumsickle? A neonazi? You sure sound like one when you talk about Floyd.

For the record, I don’t think many people are arguing that he should have been murdered, or that he deserved to be killed. But I’m not going to cry and go nuts over a criminal who repeatedly clashed with the police, was overdosing like a champ, had a record of armed robbery etc. By comparison Tony Timpa died under similar circumstances, but had no criminal record, and I have yet to see any police stations going up in flames about that case.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on June 22, 2022, 01:55:27 PM
Really want to judge the content of his character and of his family? How much of the $27M settlement that the Minneapolis taxpayers footed the bill for is in a trust fund for his kids?  How much of the GoFundMe set up for them has been wasted?  How much of the millions raised by his brother are set aside for his kids?  How many family and friends have come out of the woodwork for a piece of the pie?

Here is a short review from IMDb of the porn film George Floyd was in:
"Breathtaking
This film excellent. The casting was perfect. It was so hot I literally couldn't breathe."

Hilarious
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 22, 2022, 02:01:19 PM
I wish you know wingnuts had the balls to start your boogaloo, because then it'll be legal to do what I'd like to...

Oh, snoochie-booches. You can wear your signed MAGA hat and masturbate furiously over a copy of The Communist Manifesto whenever you want. It is still a free country!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 22, 2022, 02:06:51 PM
I wish you know wingnuts had the balls to start your boogaloo, because then it'll be legal to do what I'd like to...

Oh, snoochie-booches. You can wear your signed MAGA hat and masturbate furiously over a copy of The Communist Manifesto whenever you want. It is still a free country!

  You know what he is NOT going to do?  10 push ups or jog a mile.  I get wanting to get some aggression out, but people who are terrible at violence acting as if they wish to engage in it wholesale always makes me just shake my head.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 22, 2022, 02:48:33 PM
I wish you know wingnuts had the balls to start your boogaloo, because then it'll be legal to do what I'd like to...

Oh, snoochie-booches. You can wear your signed MAGA hat and masturbate furiously over a copy of The Communist Manifesto whenever you want. It is still a free country!

  You know what he is NOT going to do?  10 push ups or jog a mile.  I get wanting to get some aggression out, but people who are terrible at violence acting as if they wish to engage in it wholesale always makes me just shake my head.

Battlemaster is your stereotypical basement dwelling gamma male whose desire to commit violence is only matched by his inability to commit such violence. It is a form of impotence. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 22, 2022, 03:04:09 PM
Speaking of sick, extremist ideologies, this was unexpected.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/zeea-receives-a-🚫-one-day-ban.898529/

This came after Zeea edited their post for wrongthink using the wrong pronoun accidentally.

I can't help but wonder if this heralds some hair-splitting attempts by mods to whack each other with the banhammer. Will have to keep an eye on things.

  Well...given the US Navy now has training videos to prevent personnel from misgendering one another.....I am not so sure I can proclaim that forum is so far out of bounds with the insanity that seems to be infecting the nation.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on June 22, 2022, 03:14:36 PM
I'm not a doctor, but if someone gets their head banged on and then drops dead ten hours later from their brain bleeding, I'm disinclined to think that the two things are completely unrelated.  Head injuries are no joke.  I'll accept that the rioters weren't intending to kill the guy and definitely didn't set out to murder, but I wouldn't completely handwave off any responsibility, either.  It's like the difference between "IT'S AN INSURRECTION!!!" and "It was just a fun street party get-together!"  No, it was pretty clearly out of hand and definitely went into riot territory.  But the people there had more guns on hand than many central American countries, if they wanted to insurrect they would still be cleaning blood off the streets and patching bullet holes in the walls today.  Even one person with a decent rifle and a desire for political murder could've easily racked up a double digit body count, but the only one shot was a protestor.  So no, it was no "insurrection".  Wasn't a peaceful demonstration, either, thanks to the people who went off the handle and started brawling with the cops.

In fairness, the same can be said about the BLM riots.  Peaceful protestors were present at them who never raised a hand against anyone, stole anything, or set anything on fire.  Problem being the people who were standing behind the peaceful protestors using them as anti-cop shields while throwing molotov cocktails at people and smashing their way into stores to loot them.  Both sides can say, "Oh, WE didn't do anything wrong, it was those few bad eggs!"  Except the bad eggs in other cities just robbed a bunch of department stores,  and ruined the livelihoods of the little people, while the ones in DC made politicians afraid, so guess which group is getting the federal crackdown.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 22, 2022, 03:31:43 PM
I'm not a doctor, but if someone gets their head banged on and then drops dead ten hours later from their brain bleeding, I'm disinclined to think that the two things are completely unrelated.  Head injuries are no joke.  I'll accept that the rioters weren't intending to kill the guy and definitely didn't set out to murder, but I wouldn't completely handwave off any responsibility, either.  It's like the difference between "IT'S AN INSURRECTION!!!" and "It was just a fun street party get-together!"  No, it was pretty clearly out of hand and definitely went into riot territory.  But the people there had more guns on hand than many central American countries, if they wanted to insurrect they would still be cleaning blood off the streets and patching bullet holes in the walls today.  Even one person with a decent rifle and a desire for political murder could've easily racked up a double digit body count, but the only one shot was a protestor.  So no, it was no "insurrection".  Wasn't a peaceful demonstration, either, thanks to the people who went off the handle and started brawling with the cops.

In fairness, the same can be said about the BLM riots.  Peaceful protestors were present at them who never raised a hand against anyone, stole anything, or set anything on fire.  Problem being the people who were standing behind the peaceful protestors using them as anti-cop shields while throwing molotov cocktails at people and smashing their way into stores to loot them.  Both sides can say, "Oh, WE didn't do anything wrong, it was those few bad eggs!"  Except the bad eggs in other cities just robbed a bunch of department stores,  and ruined the livelihoods of the little people, while the ones in DC made politicians afraid, so guess which group is getting the federal crackdown.

  Doctors in the autopsy found no evidence of blunt force trauma.  Strange that city officials in a VERY politically polarized city can not find the link to that riot and him dying despite likely being very, very willing to reach as far as they can to make that link.    I can see your reasoning, but given the nature of pushing an insurrection narrative....trying to cover up the cop's death and calling it natural causes seems completely contrary to what everyone around that whole clusterfuck would want to have happen.  So when people working in such a politically motivated city say it was natural causes when that goes against the narrative said city wants....I believe them. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on June 22, 2022, 03:37:46 PM
I wish you know wingnuts had the balls to start your boogaloo, because then it'll be legal to do what I'd like to...

Oh, snoochie-booches. You can wear your signed MAGA hat and masturbate furiously over a copy of The Communist Manifesto whenever you want. It is still a free country!

  You know what he is NOT going to do?  10 push ups or jog a mile.  I get wanting to get some aggression out, but people who are terrible at violence acting as if they wish to engage in it wholesale always makes me just shake my head.

Battlemaster is your stereotypical basement dwelling gamma male whose desire to commit violence is only matched by his inability to commit such violence. It is a form of impotence.

That's always the way it is.  Combat vets (and I don't count myself one since my activities consisted of sneaking around underwater rather than getting shot at on a personal level) always seem to just want to get left alone while those who've never had any real hardship seem to want engage in it all the time.  The left usually engages in a taunt-run away-cry when caught and beaten routine.  If they continue pushing those who know violence hrough the door of deciding they need to take out the trash, the left will learn about violence right quick
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 22, 2022, 03:40:17 PM
I wish you know wingnuts had the balls to start your boogaloo, because then it'll be legal to do what I'd like to...

Oh, snoochie-booches. You can wear your signed MAGA hat and masturbate furiously over a copy of The Communist Manifesto whenever you want. It is still a free country!

  You know what he is NOT going to do?  10 push ups or jog a mile.  I get wanting to get some aggression out, but people who are terrible at violence acting as if they wish to engage in it wholesale always makes me just shake my head.

Battlemaster is your stereotypical basement dwelling gamma male whose desire to commit violence is only matched by his inability to commit such violence. It is a form of impotence.

That's always the way it is.  Combat vets (and I don't count myself one since my activities consisted of sneaking around underwater rather than getting shot at on a personal level) always seem to just want to get left alone while those who've never had any real hardship seem to want engage in it all the time.  The left usually engages in a taunt-run away-cry when caught and beaten routine.  If they continue pushing those who know violence hrough the door of deciding they need to take out the trash, the left will learn about violence right quick

  The funny part is, they often run straight to the police...even in situations where they might be rioting about the police.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 22, 2022, 03:50:39 PM
Combat vets (and I don't count myself one since my activities consisted of sneaking around underwater rather than getting shot at on a personal level) always seem to just want to get left alone while those who've never had any real hardship seem to want engage in it all the time. 

  I assume a submarine....and maybe we have discussed this on another thread...but Nuc?  I get confused because the forum seems to have a substantial population of them, and I can not remember all of them separately anymore.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on June 22, 2022, 11:11:09 PM
January 6th: THE MUSICAL (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8C-DetMIDs)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 23, 2022, 12:05:12 AM
So, guess after about a year or so of occasionally skimming these boards I'm finally crawling out of the woodwork to post here now that the January 6th hearings are up and running, and this thread about RPG.net is talking about the actual event with a lively debate on both sides, while RPG.net seems more or less silent on the subject. I feel like there's something to be said for the fact that even in a political subforum dedicated to Pundit's interests with a right for him to close threads and cetera (which I have seldom if ever seen abused), there's more freedom to debate and discuss than on RPG.net. I think they probably wouldn't talk about the hearings or the event even within an rpg context, not that they typically limit themselves or their posting interests to such a context. In part because to them anything with Trump in it is already a settled debate where you are in the wrong if you say anything even slightly supportive of the right or his administration, even though that seems kinda like the contagion heuristic. Also, to most of the American public this whole discussion is not yet over, and I feel like it does the whole nation and our ability to talk to one another and learn things a disservice when conversation is censored and silenced like that. I'll admit that I'm less far to the right, if right wing at all, compared to many on this server, but that doesn't give them the right to cut you out of the conversation. Let's be grateful we can actually have discussions here, unlike there. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 23, 2022, 12:13:51 AM
This is what you guys just described as "let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one. "

No rational human being can watch what happened and honestly pretend they were let into the building, and just wandered about and harmed no one.


 
   Though I agree with your statement here.....the statement they harmed no one is as true as you acting as if they murdered someone.

We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.

    Do not say "guys" as I did not describe it that way.  I just said you are full of shit about the murder angle (and the M.E. and apparently the DA agree with me ...https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/)  and you are.    You want to compare trespass and vandalism with murder and arson.

There is no question they directly intentionally injured police officers. There is no question they did a huge amount of damage. They attacked police. Many were sent to the hospital with real injuries from real violent attacks. There isn't any way to see what happened in those videos, and pretend it's not along the same level as antifa stuff. It's just plain bullshit to pretend otherwise and claim they were "let in" and just "wandered the halls without harming anyone". It's NOT just trespass and vandalism.

    But did not commit murder.  You keep obfuscating or pretending they did.  Did NOT commit murder.  Which Antifa did.  as well as arson.   I also want to revoke the person's card who built that gallows...do they not teach shop class anymore?

They beat a cop over the head with a fire extinguisher and pepper sprayed him in the face. He limped out of there, returned to his precinct, had multiple strokes and died. Coroner said beating him over the head and pepper spray was a contributing factor to his death but not the only factor. You can call that whatever you want, but I feel certain if Antifa does that you wouldn't be trying to minimize it like you're doing now.

You talking about Sicknick?

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/19/988876722/capitol-police-officer-brian-sicknick-died-of-natural-causes-medical-examiner-ru

From the medical examiner, “all that transpired played a role in his condition."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 23, 2022, 12:30:46 AM
This is what you guys just described as "let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one. "

No rational human being can watch what happened and honestly pretend they were let into the building, and just wandered about and harmed no one.


 
   Though I agree with your statement here.....the statement they harmed no one is as true as you acting as if they murdered someone.

We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.

    Do not say "guys" as I did not describe it that way.  I just said you are full of shit about the murder angle (and the M.E. and apparently the DA agree with me ...https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/)  and you are.    You want to compare trespass and vandalism with murder and arson.

There is no question they directly intentionally injured police officers. There is no question they did a huge amount of damage. They attacked police. Many were sent to the hospital with real injuries from real violent attacks. There isn't any way to see what happened in those videos, and pretend it's not along the same level as antifa stuff. It's just plain bullshit to pretend otherwise and claim they were "let in" and just "wandered the halls without harming anyone". It's NOT just trespass and vandalism.

    But did not commit murder.  You keep obfuscating or pretending they did.  Did NOT commit murder.  Which Antifa did.  as well as arson.   I also want to revoke the person's card who built that gallows...do they not teach shop class anymore?

They beat a cop over the head with a fire extinguisher and pepper sprayed him in the face. He limped out of there, returned to his precinct, had multiple strokes and died. Coroner said beating him over the head and pepper spray was a contributing factor to his death but not the only factor. You can call that whatever you want, but I feel certain if Antifa does that you wouldn't be trying to minimize it like you're doing now.

You talking about Sicknick?

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/19/988876722/capitol-police-officer-brian-sicknick-died-of-natural-causes-medical-examiner-ru

From the medical examiner, “all that transpired played a role in his condition."

So you are talking about Sicknick. I'd like to see your evidence that he was "beat over the head with a fire extinguisher".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 23, 2022, 07:07:54 AM
I wish you know wingnuts had the balls to start your boogaloo, because then it'll be legal to do what I'd like to...

Oh, snoochie-booches. You can wear your signed MAGA hat and masturbate furiously over a copy of The Communist Manifesto whenever you want. It is still a free country!

  You know what he is NOT going to do?  10 push ups or jog a mile.  I get wanting to get some aggression out, but people who are terrible at violence acting as if they wish to engage in it wholesale always makes me just shake my head.

Battlemaster is your stereotypical basement dwelling gamma male whose desire to commit violence is only matched by his inability to commit such violence. It is a form of impotence.

That's always the way it is.  Combat vets (and I don't count myself one since my activities consisted of sneaking around underwater rather than getting shot at on a personal level) always seem to just want to get left alone while those who've never had any real hardship seem to want engage in it all the time.  The left usually engages in a taunt-run away-cry when caught and beaten routine.  If they continue pushing those who know violence hrough the door of deciding they need to take out the trash, the left will learn about violence right quick

  The funny part is, they often run straight to the police...even in situations where they might be rioting about the police.

Tommy by Rudyard Kipling always comes to mind. Almost 130 years old and it still rings true.

I went into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ;
But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play. 

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, wait outside ";
But it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide. 

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 23, 2022, 07:59:02 AM
Tommy by Rudyard Kipling always comes to mind. Almost 130 years old and it still rings true.

I went into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ;
But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play. 

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, wait outside ";
But it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide. 

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!
Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well.

Though 'The Gods of the Copybook Headings' seems more apt for this day and age.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 23, 2022, 08:06:53 AM
  I see man of culture on the internet, I expect to see it at the comment section of female pole vaulters or hurdlers competing. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on June 23, 2022, 08:45:01 AM
Combat vets (and I don't count myself one since my activities consisted of sneaking around underwater rather than getting shot at on a personal level) always seem to just want to get left alone while those who've never had any real hardship seem to want engage in it all the time. 

  I assume a submarine....and maybe we have discussed this on another thread...but Nuc?  I get confused because the forum seems to have a substantial population of them, and I can not remember all of them separately anymore.

You assume correctly...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on June 23, 2022, 08:56:40 AM
This is what you guys just described as "let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one. "

No rational human being can watch what happened and honestly pretend they were let into the building, and just wandered about and harmed no one.


 
   Though I agree with your statement here.....the statement they harmed no one is as true as you acting as if they murdered someone.

We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.

    Do not say "guys" as I did not describe it that way.  I just said you are full of shit about the murder angle (and the M.E. and apparently the DA agree with me ...https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/)  and you are.    You want to compare trespass and vandalism with murder and arson.

There is no question they directly intentionally injured police officers. There is no question they did a huge amount of damage. They attacked police. Many were sent to the hospital with real injuries from real violent attacks. There isn't any way to see what happened in those videos, and pretend it's not along the same level as antifa stuff. It's just plain bullshit to pretend otherwise and claim they were "let in" and just "wandered the halls without harming anyone". It's NOT just trespass and vandalism.

    But did not commit murder.  You keep obfuscating or pretending they did.  Did NOT commit murder.  Which Antifa did.  as well as arson.   I also want to revoke the person's card who built that gallows...do they not teach shop class anymore?

They beat a cop over the head with a fire extinguisher and pepper sprayed him in the face. He limped out of there, returned to his precinct, had multiple strokes and died. Coroner said beating him over the head and pepper spray was a contributing factor to his death but not the only factor. You can call that whatever you want, but I feel certain if Antifa does that you wouldn't be trying to minimize it like you're doing now.

You talking about Sicknick?

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/19/988876722/capitol-police-officer-brian-sicknick-died-of-natural-causes-medical-examiner-ru

From the medical examiner, “all that transpired played a role in his condition."

That's a CYA statement by the ME.  "...all that transpired..." includes whether or not he smoked 2 packs a day or was undergoing medical treatment for diabetes, or if he had a bum knee from an old high school sports injury or was genetically predisposed to heart disease.

It wouldn't be any different if he stroked out the day after having run to the Krispy Kreme when the hot donuts sign came on or if he stroked out after becoming enraged at his pointy-haired boss - the guy clearly stroked out due to being overstressed which is a *medical* condition - not an assault.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 23, 2022, 11:45:04 AM
This is what you guys just described as "let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one. "

No rational human being can watch what happened and honestly pretend they were let into the building, and just wandered about and harmed no one.


 
   Though I agree with your statement here.....the statement they harmed no one is as true as you acting as if they murdered someone.

We can agree to disagree on whether the guy who stroked out after getting his head beat in was murder or not. I don't think we can disagree that they were "let in" to the capital and just "wandered about and harmed no one." If Antifa had done what's shown in that video, you guys wouldn't dream of describing it that way.

    Do not say "guys" as I did not describe it that way.  I just said you are full of shit about the murder angle (and the M.E. and apparently the DA agree with me ...https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/)  and you are.    You want to compare trespass and vandalism with murder and arson.

There is no question they directly intentionally injured police officers. There is no question they did a huge amount of damage. They attacked police. Many were sent to the hospital with real injuries from real violent attacks. There isn't any way to see what happened in those videos, and pretend it's not along the same level as antifa stuff. It's just plain bullshit to pretend otherwise and claim they were "let in" and just "wandered the halls without harming anyone". It's NOT just trespass and vandalism.

    But did not commit murder.  You keep obfuscating or pretending they did.  Did NOT commit murder.  Which Antifa did.  as well as arson.   I also want to revoke the person's card who built that gallows...do they not teach shop class anymore?

They beat a cop over the head with a fire extinguisher and pepper sprayed him in the face. He limped out of there, returned to his precinct, had multiple strokes and died. Coroner said beating him over the head and pepper spray was a contributing factor to his death but not the only factor. You can call that whatever you want, but I feel certain if Antifa does that you wouldn't be trying to minimize it like you're doing now.

You talking about Sicknick?

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/19/988876722/capitol-police-officer-brian-sicknick-died-of-natural-causes-medical-examiner-ru

From the medical examiner, “all that transpired played a role in his condition."

That's a CYA statement by the ME.  "...all that transpired..." includes whether or not he smoked 2 packs a day or was undergoing medical treatment for diabetes, or if he had a bum knee from an old high school sports injury or was genetically predisposed to heart disease.

It wouldn't be any different if he stroked out the day after having run to the Krispy Kreme when the hot donuts sign came on or if he stroked out after becoming enraged at his pointy-haired boss - the guy clearly stroked out due to being overstressed which is a *medical* condition - not an assault.

Is your point to claim people didn't assault police that day, or just to defend against this one allegation about a guy who died? Because, again, there is no rational way to watch what happened and then claim it was peaceful and they were invited in and just wandered the halls. There is no rational way to claim they were not violent, and not assaulting people with intent to do injury.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 23, 2022, 12:19:48 PM
Tommy by Rudyard Kipling always comes to mind. Almost 130 years old and it still rings true.

I went into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ;
But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play. 

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, wait outside ";
But it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide. 

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!
Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well.

Though 'The Gods of the Copybook Headings' seems more apt for this day and age.

I appreciate the compliment, but I wouldn't call myself a man of culture. I mean, I love microwave burritos too much.

'The God's of the Copybook Headings' does fit in nicely, I agree.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 23, 2022, 12:42:50 PM
Tommy by Rudyard Kipling always comes to mind. Almost 130 years old and it still rings true.

I went into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ;
But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play. 

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, wait outside ";
But it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide. 

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!
Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well.

Though 'The Gods of the Copybook Headings' seems more apt for this day and age.

I appreciate the compliment, but I wouldn't call myself a man of culture. I mean, I love microwave burritos too much.

'The God's of the Copybook Headings' does fit in nicely, I agree.

Let no man speak ill of microwave burritos.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on June 23, 2022, 02:12:53 PM
So you are talking about Sicknick. I'd like to see your evidence that he was "beat over the head with a fire extinguisher".

I don't think that Sicknick was hit on the head with a fire extinguisher. The police only said that he was injured, and someone claimed it was a fire extinguisher that was repeated in several media outlets at the time. However, there were several other officers who were hit on the head with a fire extinguisher during the riots. Robert Palmer and Robert Sanford were both convicted of separate incidents of throwing a fire extinguisher at policeman's heads. Here's video of one of the incidents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sip2z2w8BrQ

So I think Mistwell is incorrect specifically regarding Sicknick, but there were multiple officers hit on the head with a fire extinguisher by rioters, so this doesn't show the rioters as peaceful. Posters have claimed that the rioters were only guilty of trespass and vandalism at most, and that they didn't hurt anyone - which is demonstrably false. I don't think they murdered anyone, but they certainly hurt people.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 23, 2022, 02:27:12 PM
So you are talking about Sicknick. I'd like to see your evidence that he was "beat over the head with a fire extinguisher".

I don't think that Sicknick was hit on the head with a fire extinguisher. The police only said that he was injured, and someone claimed it was a fire extinguisher that was repeated in several media outlets at the time. However, there were several other officers who were hit on the head with a fire extinguisher during the riots. Robert Palmer and Robert Sanford were both convicted of separate incidents of throwing a fire extinguisher at policeman's heads. Here's video of one of the incidents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sip2z2w8BrQ

So I think Mistwell is incorrect specifically regarding Sicknick, but there were multiple officers hit on the head with a fire extinguisher by rioters, so this doesn't show the rioters as peaceful. Posters have claimed that the rioters were only guilty of trespass and vandalism at most, and that they didn't hurt anyone - which is demonstrably false. I don't think they murdered anyone, but they certainly hurt people.

I agree that people got hurt, but Mistwell explicitly and repeatedly claimed that "an officer" was beat (hit repeatedly) over the head with a fire extinguisher. A claim made popular by the media at the time, that was and has been repeated by gullible people who have a rhetorical interest in making the Jan 6 riots sound as terrible as they can, at the expense of accuracy and truth.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on June 23, 2022, 02:46:52 PM
So you are talking about Sicknick. I'd like to see your evidence that he was "beat over the head with a fire extinguisher".

I don't think that Sicknick was hit on the head with a fire extinguisher. The police only said that he was injured, and someone claimed it was a fire extinguisher that was repeated in several media outlets at the time. However, there were several other officers who were hit on the head with a fire extinguisher during the riots. Robert Palmer and Robert Sanford were both convicted of separate incidents of throwing a fire extinguisher at policeman's heads. Here's video of one of the incidents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sip2z2w8BrQ

So I think Mistwell is incorrect specifically regarding Sicknick, but there were multiple officers hit on the head with a fire extinguisher by rioters, so this doesn't show the rioters as peaceful. Posters have claimed that the rioters were only guilty of trespass and vandalism at most, and that they didn't hurt anyone - which is demonstrably false. I don't think they murdered anyone, but they certainly hurt people.

I agree that people got hurt, but Mistwell explicitly and repeatedly claimed that "an officer" was beat (hit repeatedly) over the head with a fire extinguisher. A claim made popular by the media at the time, that was and has been repeated by gullible people who have a rhetorical interest in making the Jan 6 riots sound as terrible as they can, at the expense of accuracy and truth.

Even if it were a full blown riot like antifa and BLM have engaged in without consequence, I really don't care.  We are at the point where many people believe that the creatures infesting the federal government serve themselves instead of their constituents and are a clear and present danger - those politicians are the domestic portion of the "...all enemies, foreign and domestic." that people have pledged to defend the constitution against. 

That's what the pundits forget - you aren't defending the government (or the holders of governmental office) when you take that oath - you are defending the constitution itself which enshrines your rights and sets forth the *form* of government - especially against government that is so corrupted as to actively use the color of officiality to violate the constitution.  The founders *knew* that future politicians could never be trusted to not fuck up, so they left the mechanisms for the citizenry to perform a hard reset when needed.  We should all just be surprised at how long it has taken for a significant number of people to consider that we have reached that point.  If the founders were around longer, they would've violently thrown government officials out of office multiple times already.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on June 23, 2022, 02:49:07 PM
So I think Mistwell is incorrect specifically regarding Sicknick, but there were multiple officers hit on the head with a fire extinguisher by rioters, so this doesn't show the rioters as peaceful. Posters have claimed that the rioters were only guilty of trespass and vandalism at most, and that they didn't hurt anyone - which is demonstrably false. I don't think they murdered anyone, but they certainly hurt people.

I agree that people got hurt, but Mistwell explicitly and repeatedly claimed that "an officer" was beat (hit repeatedly) over the head with a fire extinguisher. A claim made popular by the media at the time, that was and has been repeated by gullible people who have a rhetorical interest in making the Jan 6 riots sound as terrible as they can, at the expense of accuracy and truth.

So if Mistwell had just said an officer was "hit" on the head instead of "beat" on the head, then you'd be fine with his statement? That sounds rather hair-splitting compared to other statements in this thread.

In reply #1656, 3catcircus who explicitly claimed that "The worst that they did was some minor vandalizing, stole an overpriced lectern and laptop, and farted on Pelosi's chair." Others claimed that all they did was "trespass and destruction of property" or at most "pushed some cops".

I agree that Mistwell was incorrect, but it's not like "hit" vs "beat" stands out compared to these.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 23, 2022, 03:07:46 PM
So I think Mistwell is incorrect specifically regarding Sicknick, but there were multiple officers hit on the head with a fire extinguisher by rioters, so this doesn't show the rioters as peaceful. Posters have claimed that the rioters were only guilty of trespass and vandalism at most, and that they didn't hurt anyone - which is demonstrably false. I don't think they murdered anyone, but they certainly hurt people.

I agree that people got hurt, but Mistwell explicitly and repeatedly claimed that "an officer" was beat (hit repeatedly) over the head with a fire extinguisher. A claim made popular by the media at the time, that was and has been repeated by gullible people who have a rhetorical interest in making the Jan 6 riots sound as terrible as they can, at the expense of accuracy and truth.

So if Mistwell had just said an officer was "hit" on the head instead of "beat" on the head, then you'd be fine with his statement? That sounds rather hair-splitting compared to other statements in this thread.

I disagree. An unruly event where things are thrown and someone gets hit is bad, but I think someone repeatedly hitting someone over the head is worse.
And I think the choice of beat over hit is rhetorically intentional to make it sound worse.

Quote
In reply #1656, 3catcircus who explicitly claimed that "The worst that they did was some minor vandalizing, stole an overpriced lectern and laptop, and farted on Pelosi's chair." Others claimed that all they did was "trespass and destruction of property" or at most "pushed some cops".

I agree that Mistwell was incorrect, but it's not like "hit" vs "beat" stands out compared to these.

I disagree with people who downplay what did happen during Jan 6, but lying and misleading makes me think the opposing side is making the same error in the opposite direction, and both are best discarded as emotional rhetoric.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 23, 2022, 04:21:02 PM
So tbp has launched it's annual membership drive.

Honestly,  why do people with the higher brain functions required to engage in any form of gaming PAY to be bullied, dictated to, threatened,  told their opinions are not important or wanted,  etc?

I mean,  it's like those people who pay women to beat, spit and piss on them...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 23, 2022, 04:22:22 PM
So you are talking about Sicknick. I'd like to see your evidence that he was "beat over the head with a fire extinguisher".

I don't think that Sicknick was hit on the head with a fire extinguisher. The police only said that he was injured, and someone claimed it was a fire extinguisher that was repeated in several media outlets at the time. However, there were several other officers who were hit on the head with a fire extinguisher during the riots. Robert Palmer and Robert Sanford were both convicted of separate incidents of throwing a fire extinguisher at policeman's heads. Here's video of one of the incidents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sip2z2w8BrQ

So I think Mistwell is incorrect specifically regarding Sicknick, but there were multiple officers hit on the head with a fire extinguisher by rioters, so this doesn't show the rioters as peaceful. Posters have claimed that the rioters were only guilty of trespass and vandalism at most, and that they didn't hurt anyone - which is demonstrably false. I don't think they murdered anyone, but they certainly hurt people.

I agree that people got hurt, but Mistwell explicitly and repeatedly claimed that "an officer" was beat (hit repeatedly) over the head with a fire extinguisher. A claim made popular by the media at the time, that was and has been repeated by gullible people who have a rhetorical interest in making the Jan 6 riots sound as terrible as they can, at the expense of accuracy and truth.

While we can disagree about WHICH officer was hit over the head with a fire extinguisher and how many times, it's fact that an officer was in fact hit in the head by at least one fire extinguisher, and that a second officer was in fact hit by a second fire extinguisher. It's a claim "made popular" because it's TRUE and substantiated by video evidence, and that evidence is dramatic and therefore something the news would cover.

The only gullible people involved with that conversation are those in denial over the facts that did happen and who either refuse to examine the evidence for themselves or who engage in torturous logic to try and escape cognitive dissonance over the fact that did happen.

There is video evidence of at least two fire extinguishers being thrown and hitting police. One definitely hit a police officer in the head, and the other was thrown down from a balcony onto police. The first was thrown by Robert Sanford, who has been arrested and is awaiting trial. The later was done by Robert Palmer who was convicted to a 63 month sentence.

Devlyn Thompson was convicted of assaulting a police officer with a metal baton, sentenced to 46 months in prison.

Lonnie Leroy Coffman was convicted for 46 months in prison for possession of unregistered weapons. In the truck he brought to the capital on Jan 6 were molotov cocktails, a 9mm handgun, a rifle, a shotgun, hundreds of rounds of ammunition, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, a crossbow with bolts, machetes, camouflage and gas-filled Mason jars used to make napalm.

Nicholas Languerand was sentenced to 44 months in prison for assault on police officers. He had tried to spear officers, and at the time texted  “Violence isn’t always the answer but in the face of tyranny violence may be the only answer,” and “Next time we come back with rifles.”

There are a lot more still waiting on trial. But don't fucking tell me this was all just peaceful trespassers who were invited in and wandered the halls.

Again, IF ANTIFA DID ANY OF THESE THINGS NONE OF YOU GUYS WOULD BE DISMISSING IT LIKE YOU'VE TRIED TO DISMISS WHAT HAPPENED ON JAN 6. My point remains valid - extremists regardless of political affiliation can and have been violent assholes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 23, 2022, 04:45:33 PM
So you are talking about Sicknick. I'd like to see your evidence that he was "beat over the head with a fire extinguisher".

I don't think that Sicknick was hit on the head with a fire extinguisher. The police only said that he was injured, and someone claimed it was a fire extinguisher that was repeated in several media outlets at the time. However, there were several other officers who were hit on the head with a fire extinguisher during the riots. Robert Palmer and Robert Sanford were both convicted of separate incidents of throwing a fire extinguisher at policeman's heads. Here's video of one of the incidents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sip2z2w8BrQ

So I think Mistwell is incorrect specifically regarding Sicknick, but there were multiple officers hit on the head with a fire extinguisher by rioters, so this doesn't show the rioters as peaceful. Posters have claimed that the rioters were only guilty of trespass and vandalism at most, and that they didn't hurt anyone - which is demonstrably false. I don't think they murdered anyone, but they certainly hurt people.

I agree that people got hurt, but Mistwell explicitly and repeatedly claimed that "an officer" was beat (hit repeatedly) over the head with a fire extinguisher. A claim made popular by the media at the time, that was and has been repeated by gullible people who have a rhetorical interest in making the Jan 6 riots sound as terrible as they can, at the expense of accuracy and truth.

While we can disagree about WHICH officer was hit over the head with a fire extinguisher and how many times, it's fact that an officer was in fact hit in the head by at least one fire extinguisher, and that a second officer was in fact hit by a second fire extinguisher. It's a claim "made popular" because it's TRUE and substantiated by video evidence, and that evidence is dramatic and therefore something the news would cover.

The only gullible people involved with that conversation are those in denial over the facts that did happen and who either refuse to examine the evidence for themselves or who engage in torturous logic to try and escape cognitive dissonance over the fact that did happen.

There is video evidence of at least two fire extinguishers being thrown and hitting police. One definitely hit a police officer in the head, and the other was thrown down from a balcony onto police. The first was thrown by Robert Sanford, who has been arrested and is awaiting trial. The later was done by Robert Palmer who was convicted to a 63 month sentence.

Devlyn Thompson was convicted of assaulting a police officer with a metal baton, sentenced to 46 months in prison.

Lonnie Leroy Coffman was convicted for 46 months in prison for possession of unregistered weapons. In the truck he brought to the capital on Jan 6 were molotov cocktails, a 9mm handgun, a rifle, a shotgun, hundreds of rounds of ammunition, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, a crossbow with bolts, machetes, camouflage and gas-filled Mason jars used to make napalm.

Nicholas Languerand was sentenced to 44 months in prison for assault on police officers. He had tried to spear officers, and at the time texted  “Violence isn’t always the answer but in the face of tyranny violence may be the only answer,” and “Next time we come back with rifles.”

There are a lot more still waiting on trial. But don't fucking tell me this was all just peaceful trespassers who were invited in and wandered the halls.

Again, IF ANTIFA DID ANY OF THESE THINGS NONE OF YOU GUYS WOULD BE DISMISSING IT LIKE YOU'VE TRIED TO DISMISS WHAT HAPPENED ON JAN 6. My point remains valid - extremists regardless of political affiliation can and have been violent assholes.
Yeah, you're just lying and being deceptive.

Sicknick died of natural causes. That's what the ME said, and the ME had every incentive to blame the mostly peaceful protesters. You've doubled down on that falsehood, rather than being honest and admitting you're wrong. Instead, you're trying to shift the goalposts from your completely false claim that the mostly peaceful protesters murdered cops to maybe a few got hit.

Which more or less matches what everyone else has said, despite your contorted attempts to claim that people are somehow denying anything except your lies.

Plus, if you want to bring in Antifa, how many people were murdered during the 2020 Summer of Insurrection, Arson, and Democratic Politicians Almost Universally Supporting Armed Rebellion?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 23, 2022, 04:55:11 PM
OK, for the rightards:

BLM violence began after decades of police abusing, beating, framing abd murdering blacks are far higher rates than whites. It began after cases of police clearly murdering blacks and getting away with it began getting caught on video.

The trumptards rioted because they lost an election.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on June 23, 2022, 04:57:53 PM
So you are talking about Sicknick. I'd like to see your evidence that he was "beat over the head with a fire extinguisher".

I don't think that Sicknick was hit on the head with a fire extinguisher. The police only said that he was injured, and someone claimed it was a fire extinguisher that was repeated in several media outlets at the time. However, there were several other officers who were hit on the head with a fire extinguisher during the riots. Robert Palmer and Robert Sanford were both convicted of separate incidents of throwing a fire extinguisher at policeman's heads. Here's video of one of the incidents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sip2z2w8BrQ

So I think Mistwell is incorrect specifically regarding Sicknick, but there were multiple officers hit on the head with a fire extinguisher by rioters, so this doesn't show the rioters as peaceful. Posters have claimed that the rioters were only guilty of trespass and vandalism at most, and that they didn't hurt anyone - which is demonstrably false. I don't think they murdered anyone, but they certainly hurt people.

I agree that people got hurt, but Mistwell explicitly and repeatedly claimed that "an officer" was beat (hit repeatedly) over the head with a fire extinguisher. A claim made popular by the media at the time, that was and has been repeated by gullible people who have a rhetorical interest in making the Jan 6 riots sound as terrible as they can, at the expense of accuracy and truth.

While we can disagree about WHICH officer was hit over the head with a fire extinguisher and how many times, it's fact that an officer was in fact hit in the head by at least one fire extinguisher, and that a second officer was in fact hit by a second fire extinguisher. It's a claim "made popular" because it's TRUE and substantiated by video evidence, and that evidence is dramatic and therefore something the news would cover.

The only gullible people involved with that conversation are those in denial over the facts that did happen and who either refuse to examine the evidence for themselves or who engage in torturous logic to try and escape cognitive dissonance over the fact that did happen.

There is video evidence of at least two fire extinguishers being thrown and hitting police. One definitely hit a police officer in the head, and the other was thrown down from a balcony onto police. The first was thrown by Robert Sanford, who has been arrested and is awaiting trial. The later was done by Robert Palmer who was convicted to a 63 month sentence.

Devlyn Thompson was convicted of assaulting a police officer with a metal baton, sentenced to 46 months in prison.

Lonnie Leroy Coffman was convicted for 46 months in prison for possession of unregistered weapons. In the truck he brought to the capital on Jan 6 were molotov cocktails, a 9mm handgun, a rifle, a shotgun, hundreds of rounds of ammunition, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, a crossbow with bolts, machetes, camouflage and gas-filled Mason jars used to make napalm.

Nicholas Languerand was sentenced to 44 months in prison for assault on police officers. He had tried to spear officers, and at the time texted  “Violence isn’t always the answer but in the face of tyranny violence may be the only answer,” and “Next time we come back with rifles.”

There are a lot more still waiting on trial. But don't fucking tell me this was all just peaceful trespassers who were invited in and wandered the halls.

Again, IF ANTIFA DID ANY OF THESE THINGS NONE OF YOU GUYS WOULD BE DISMISSING IT LIKE YOU'VE TRIED TO DISMISS WHAT HAPPENED ON JAN 6. My point remains valid - extremists regardless of political affiliation can and have been violent assholes.
Yeah, you're just lying and being deceptive.

Sicknick died of natural causes. That's what the ME said, and the ME had every incentive to blame the mostly peaceful protesters. You've doubled down on that falsehood, rather than being honest and admitting you're wrong. Instead, you're trying to shift the goalposts from your completely false claim that the mostly peaceful protesters murdered cops to maybe a few got hit.

Which more or less matches what everyone else has said, despite your contorted attempts to claim that people are somehow denying anything except your lies.

Plus, if you want to bring in Antifa, how many people were murdered during the 2020 Summer of Insurrection, Arson, and Democratic Politicians Almost Universally Supporting Armed Rebellion?
Also, remember noted antifa goon Eric Clanton?  He got 3 years probation for striking a victim in the head with a bike lock.  Seems like a bit of a light sentence for 4 counts of felony assault ...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 23, 2022, 04:58:57 PM
  Antifa sort of set the standard as to what we are allowed to let go on, accept, understand rioting is the voice of the unheard, really understand what a mostly peaceful protest looks like.  Had Jan 6 come before burning, looting, and murdering I am sure there would a different tone as to how it was looked upon.  But...the powers that be, the press, etc decided mostly peaceful means building engulfed in flames and people looting and rioting in the backdrop, often with people murdered by those looters or dying in those fires.  Decisions about how to frame things have consequences, decisions to abandon principles and standards has consequences.  I think being sad the right has decided to start adopting the left's ability to just ignore standards and principles when it suits them  is a waste of energy.   It just looks like everyone is finally headed towards adopting one rule book, because for the most part, one rule book seems very thick, and the other rule book seems to have one rule (just win!).    Things will get interesting if this trend to everyone having the same rules (basically Alinsky's rules) continues.   This was a great source of angst for the main stream press as they constantly tried to explain to those on the right how much of a christian trump was not (as if any of those motherfuckers give two shits about christianity) and how sinful he was.  The response of dont give a fudge and rather win was LMAO to me.   Interesting times.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on June 23, 2022, 05:00:11 PM
OK, for the rightards:

BLM violence began after decades of police abusing, beating, framing abd murdering blacks are far higher rates than whites. It began after cases of police clearly murdering blacks and getting away with it began getting caught on video.

The trumptards rioted because they lost an election.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/009/063/9a9.jpg)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 23, 2022, 05:03:48 PM
OK, for the rightards:

BLM violence began after decades of police abusing, beating, framing abd murdering blacks are far higher rates than whites. It began after cases of police clearly murdering blacks and getting away with it began getting caught on video.

The trumptards rioted because they lost an election.

  No, it started on a big fucking lie.  Hands up dont shoot.  Trumptards rioted because you dumbasses showed if you want to act a fool in the streets it will be called "mostly peaceful protesting".  Decide you want to change the rules and standards we live by, learn to live with the consequences.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 23, 2022, 05:44:59 PM
So you are talking about Sicknick. I'd like to see your evidence that he was "beat over the head with a fire extinguisher".

I don't think that Sicknick was hit on the head with a fire extinguisher. The police only said that he was injured, and someone claimed it was a fire extinguisher that was repeated in several media outlets at the time. However, there were several other officers who were hit on the head with a fire extinguisher during the riots. Robert Palmer and Robert Sanford were both convicted of separate incidents of throwing a fire extinguisher at policeman's heads. Here's video of one of the incidents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sip2z2w8BrQ

So I think Mistwell is incorrect specifically regarding Sicknick, but there were multiple officers hit on the head with a fire extinguisher by rioters, so this doesn't show the rioters as peaceful. Posters have claimed that the rioters were only guilty of trespass and vandalism at most, and that they didn't hurt anyone - which is demonstrably false. I don't think they murdered anyone, but they certainly hurt people.

I agree that people got hurt, but Mistwell explicitly and repeatedly claimed that "an officer" was beat (hit repeatedly) over the head with a fire extinguisher. A claim made popular by the media at the time, that was and has been repeated by gullible people who have a rhetorical interest in making the Jan 6 riots sound as terrible as they can, at the expense of accuracy and truth.

While we can disagree about WHICH officer was hit over the head with a fire extinguisher and how many times, it's fact that an officer was in fact hit in the head by at least one fire extinguisher, and that a second officer was in fact hit by a second fire extinguisher. It's a claim "made popular" because it's TRUE and substantiated by video evidence, and that evidence is dramatic and therefore something the news would cover.

The only gullible people involved with that conversation are those in denial over the facts that did happen and who either refuse to examine the evidence for themselves or who engage in torturous logic to try and escape cognitive dissonance over the fact that did happen.

There is video evidence of at least two fire extinguishers being thrown and hitting police. One definitely hit a police officer in the head, and the other was thrown down from a balcony onto police. The first was thrown by Robert Sanford, who has been arrested and is awaiting trial. The later was done by Robert Palmer who was convicted to a 63 month sentence.

Devlyn Thompson was convicted of assaulting a police officer with a metal baton, sentenced to 46 months in prison.

Lonnie Leroy Coffman was convicted for 46 months in prison for possession of unregistered weapons. In the truck he brought to the capital on Jan 6 were molotov cocktails, a 9mm handgun, a rifle, a shotgun, hundreds of rounds of ammunition, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, a crossbow with bolts, machetes, camouflage and gas-filled Mason jars used to make napalm.

Nicholas Languerand was sentenced to 44 months in prison for assault on police officers. He had tried to spear officers, and at the time texted  “Violence isn’t always the answer but in the face of tyranny violence may be the only answer,” and “Next time we come back with rifles.”

There are a lot more still waiting on trial. But don't fucking tell me this was all just peaceful trespassers who were invited in and wandered the halls.

Again, IF ANTIFA DID ANY OF THESE THINGS NONE OF YOU GUYS WOULD BE DISMISSING IT LIKE YOU'VE TRIED TO DISMISS WHAT HAPPENED ON JAN 6. My point remains valid - extremists regardless of political affiliation can and have been violent assholes.
Yeah, you're just lying and being deceptive.

Sicknick died of natural causes. That's what the ME said, and the ME had every incentive to blame the mostly peaceful protesters. You've doubled down on that falsehood, rather than being honest and admitting you're wrong. Instead, you're trying to shift the goalposts from your completely false claim that the mostly peaceful protesters murdered cops to maybe a few got hit.

Which more or less matches what everyone else has said, despite your contorted attempts to claim that people are somehow denying anything except your lies.

Plus, if you want to bring in Antifa, how many people were murdered during the 2020 Summer of Insurrection, Arson, and Democratic Politicians Almost Universally Supporting Armed Rebellion?

*I* want to bring in Antifa? Oh Pat, you've gotten lost mate. Follow the conversation. Where is it you think we started my man?

The point all along has been about comparing Antifa violence to Jan 6 violence and people claiming Jan 6 was non-violent, with me saying no they were in fact violent.  Sicknick was just one in many many points I made to demonstrate they were also violent on Jan 6. I've proven it was violent and rather than talk to that point you want to focus on trying to play gotcha without ever speaking to the issue we're talking about. You got so far from the point that you now think I am the one bringing Antifa to the conversation. Fuck dude, there is a forest around you. Stop beating your head on that tree. Not me who brought Antifa to this conversation I am just responding to what others said. Or did you just forget what the heck we've been talking about?

Tell me Pat, do you agree with what was said, that on Jan 6 everyone in the capital was just "invited" in there by police, they were simply trespassing and wandering the halls, and that they were non-violent? Do you or do you not agree with that statement. Don't be a fucking politician about it, don't ask me to define what "is" is, just answer the simple question as to whether you think that is an accurate assessment of what happened or not.

Because if you don't agree with that statement, I want you to hold the people accountable for saying that at least as much as you have a bug up your ass about Sicknick which was never my point to begin with but that statement WAS the point those guys were making.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 23, 2022, 05:50:08 PM
[stupid meme]

Jesus another one who can't follow the conversation.

Hey asshole, we're all just responding to the point made about Antifa and Jan 6, not starting that point. If you can't follow the conversation, then sit back and review it first before responding or don't f'ing respond.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 23, 2022, 06:07:10 PM
*I* want to bring in Antifa? Oh Pat, you've gotten lost mate. Follow the conversation. Where is it you think we started my man?

The point all along has been about comparing Antifa violence to Jan 6 violence and people claiming Jan 6 was non-violent, with me saying no they were in fact violent.  Sicknick was just one in many many points I made to demonstrate they were also violent on Jan 6. I've proven it was violent and rather than talk to that point you want to focus on trying to play gotcha without ever speaking to the issue we're talking about. You got so far from the point that you now think I am the one bringing Antifa to the conversation. Fuck dude, there is a forest around you. Stop beating your head on that tree. Not me who brought Antifa to this conversation I am just responding to what others said. Or did you just forget what the heck we've been talking about?

Tell me Pat, do you agree with what was said, that on Jan 6 everyone in the capital was just "invited" in there by police, they were simply trespassing and wandering the halls, and that they were non-violent? Do you or do you not agree with that statement. Don't be a fucking politician about it, don't ask me to define what "is" is, just answer the simple question as to whether you think that is an accurate assessment of what happened or not.

Because if you don't agree with that statement, I want you to hold the people accountable for saying that at least as much as you have a bug up your ass about Sicknick which was never my point to begin with but that statement WAS the point those guys were making.
Okay, you fucking liar. Where did anyone say this was nonviolent?

Oh wait, that was me! Except there was context, which you can't strip out without being a complete fucking liar. I pointed out that one side of the building was completely nonviolent. They were invited in. They were respectful. And it's absolutely appalling those people are being treated as terrorists. It's a complete travesty, and it's a sign of the sickness of our federal institutions and how far they've drifted from their often but falsely claimed role as public servants.

And on the other side of the the building, I said it got violent. But not a single protestor was carrying a gun. The FBI admitted there was no organized plan to do anything. It therefore wasn't an insurrection. That's another lie, and it's equally appalling. Because we've just gone through dozens of worse riots, some in the summer of 2020 in response to a completely fictitious narrative, some at supreme court confirmation hearings, some at presidential inaugurations, some at the homes of supreme court justices, and one that even attacked the White House. These were all far worse, because they directly threatened legislators, justices, and chief executives, committed arson, and killed people. Yet the people involved mostly got a slap on the hand.

Which in general, I wouldn't have much of a problem with. I think it's a sign of a functioning democracy that protests are largely tolerated, even when they get violent. Yes, people get arrested. But the charges should usually be minor, and the sentences typically probation. Even property damage or inter-personal violence shouldn't be treated that severely, because this idea that all protests are going to be peaceful is nonsense. Reserve the serious charges for things like bombings, killings, or arson.

But what we're seeing here is the weaponization of Congress, the FBI, and the Department of Justice against the opposition political party. I despise that political party almost as much as I despise you, but hey if I stay silent then next they'll come for X, then Y, and eventually me.

Liar.

Liar.

You miserable piece of shit liar.

And if you ask me one more of your little staged lying questions and demand an answer, I'm going totally scorched earth on your miserable piece of shit ass.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 23, 2022, 06:21:28 PM
OK, for the rightards:

BLM violence began after decades of police abusing, beating, framing abd murdering blacks are far higher rates than whites. It began after cases of police clearly murdering blacks and getting away with it began getting caught on video.

The trumptards rioted because they lost an election.

Got proof? Where is your evidence to support this claim?

See, we heard this line of bullshit before and did the research. You know what it showed? That the group killing the most blacks was other blacks. Not cops. Criminal blacks like George Floyd are the ones who kill the most blacks. Now, you won't listen to this or any other argument because you are fucked in the head. You've been brainwashed.

Not only are you a groomer, but you are also a retard.

As far as "trumptards" rioting, how can you tell? It looks like a lot of them were bussed in to DC from other cities. Agitators who showed up for a protest just like all of the rioters who showed up at various democrat governed cities who never gave a shit about their constituency except when needed to win an election. A large part of the butthurt by you and Mistwell and jhkim feel is that the realization that nobody whose talking points you are regurgitating gives a fuck about you. You are each useful idiots that the social Marxists gladly use to wipe their asses since you have served your purpose.

So c'mon, tell us how much money and time you useful idiots expended on BLM or Antifa or other social cause whose leaders see you as expendable pawns?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 23, 2022, 06:38:02 PM
Jeffy, you're a pussy throwing shit over the net. I hope someday you skip up abd call someone a groomer irl and get your mouth smashed to a bloody pulp you cunt. Millions of people have died of covid and you weren't one of them. That's tragic..
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 23, 2022, 06:57:05 PM
OK, for the rightards:

BLM violence began after decades of police abusing, beating, framing abd murdering blacks are far higher rates than whites. It began after cases of police clearly murdering blacks and getting away with it began getting caught on video.

The trumptards rioted because they lost an election.

The thing that is really suspect here is that BLM’s violence started AFTER the tendency of police to shoot blacks had stopped. Steven Pinker actually looks at the data in his book Enlightenment Now and finds that cops are not more likely to kill blacks than whites. It seems to me that some African Americans are holding on to their oppression for their bare lives.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 23, 2022, 07:02:09 PM
OK, for the rightards:

BLM violence began after decades of police abusing, beating, framing abd murdering blacks are far higher rates than whites. It began after cases of police clearly murdering blacks and getting away with it began getting caught on video.

The trumptards rioted because they lost an election.

The thing that is really suspect here is that BLM’s violence started AFTER the tendency of police to shoot blacks had stopped. Steven Pinker actually looks at the data in his book Enlightenment Now and finds that cops are not more likely to kill blacks than whites. It seems to me that some African Americans are holding on to their oppression for their bare lives.

  Guess what is going to stop now?  Policing Black neighborhoods at all.   It seems shootings and homicides are spiking like mad in several cities all over the country, and po po is too busy getting doughnuts and calling backup to be bothered.    You know what else is stopping?  People signing on to be police officers.   Less cops, and the ones who are there are NOT going into areas they can get snagged up in.  Yay.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on June 23, 2022, 07:26:05 PM
OK, for the rightards:

BLM violence began after decades of police abusing, beating, framing abd murdering blacks are far higher rates than whites. It began after cases of police clearly murdering blacks and getting away with it began getting caught on video.

The trumptards rioted because they lost an election.

The thing that is really suspect here is that BLM’s violence started AFTER the tendency of police to shoot blacks had stopped. Steven Pinker actually looks at the data in his book Enlightenment Now and finds that cops are not more likely to kill blacks than whites. It seems to me that some African Americans are holding on to their oppression for their bare lives.

  Guess what is going to stop now?  Policing Black neighborhoods at all.   It seems shootings and homicides are spiking like mad in several cities all over the country, and po po is too busy getting doughnuts and calling backup to be bothered.    You know what else is stopping?  People signing on to be police officers.   Less cops, and the ones who are there are NOT going into areas they can get snagged up in.  Yay.
There's also the possibility that there will be increased quality of the remaining cops to make up for lost quantity. If the ones being lost are the "bad apples" that historically have been the shitbags of the force, then losing them (or their equally shitty replacements) isn't a bad thing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on June 23, 2022, 07:26:36 PM
Sicknick died of natural causes. That's what the ME said, and the ME had every incentive to blame the mostly peaceful protesters. You've doubled down on that falsehood, rather than being honest and admitting you're wrong. Instead, you're trying to shift the goalposts from your completely false claim that the mostly peaceful protesters murdered cops to maybe a few got hit.

Which more or less matches what everyone else has said, despite your contorted attempts to claim that people are somehow denying anything except your lies.

Plus, if you want to bring in Antifa, how many people were murdered during the 2020 Summer of Insurrection, Arson, and Democratic Politicians Almost Universally Supporting Armed Rebellion?
Also, remember noted antifa goon Eric Clanton?  He got 3 years probation for striking a victim in the head with a bike lock.  Seems like a bit of a light sentence for 4 counts of felony assault ...
Repressive tolerance in practice.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 23, 2022, 07:38:36 PM
OK, for the rightards:

BLM violence began after decades of police abusing, beating, framing abd murdering blacks are far higher rates than whites. It began after cases of police clearly murdering blacks and getting away with it began getting caught on video.

The trumptards rioted because they lost an election.

The thing that is really suspect here is that BLM’s violence started AFTER the tendency of police to shoot blacks had stopped. Steven Pinker actually looks at the data in his book Enlightenment Now and finds that cops are not more likely to kill blacks than whites. It seems to me that some African Americans are holding on to their oppression for their bare lives.

  Guess what is going to stop now?  Policing Black neighborhoods at all.   It seems shootings and homicides are spiking like mad in several cities all over the country, and po po is too busy getting doughnuts and calling backup to be bothered.    You know what else is stopping?  People signing on to be police officers.   Less cops, and the ones who are there are NOT going into areas they can get snagged up in.  Yay.
There's also the possibility that there will be increased quality of the remaining cops to make up for lost quantity. If the ones being lost are the "bad apples" that historically have been the shitbags of the force, then losing them (or their equally shitty replacements) isn't a bad thing.


  If it got rid of the bad cops it would be good.  That is not how it is working out, the good ones have options (they can do other jobs, or move somewhere else where they can ride out that clock to retire) and they are exercising them en masse.  Most departments are 33 percent understaffed in real life, but are pretending recruits and enrollees in academies are on the rosters.   IME most of the cops on the force are pretty fucking average, about 20 percent are good, and 20 percent are well....useless or even actual detriments to the department.  The good 20 percent tends to handle 70-80 percent of the business that has to get done.....well when you lose half that 20 percent quickly, and the rest over time (they move to training positions, go to smaller departments to get the state retirement, etc) guess what?  Now you have the check in chumps and the people who only follow to do anything, and that bottom 20 percent...the assholes who shoot themselves, get assigned SRO duty because they can not be trusted on the street, or man a desk in a building never to leave.  Uvalde IMO was a signal as to the future with what we can expect from the police.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 23, 2022, 08:02:07 PM
Jeffy, you're a pussy throwing shit over the net.

OK, groomer.

I hope someday you skip up abd call someone a groomer irl and get your mouth smashed to a bloody pulp you cunt.

Well, if someone smashes my mouth, it sure isn't going to be a flaccid penis like you.

Millions of people have died of covid and you weren't one of them. That's tragic..

Nah. It just means that I'm not done saving my corner of civilization from useful idiots like you, groomer. Now why don't you slink off and cry about it like the impotent brainwashed retard you are.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 23, 2022, 08:07:09 PM
OK, for the rightards:

BLM violence began after decades of police abusing, beating, framing abd murdering blacks are far higher rates than whites. It began after cases of police clearly murdering blacks and getting away with it began getting caught on video.

The trumptards rioted because they lost an election.

The thing that is really suspect here is that BLM’s violence started AFTER the tendency of police to shoot blacks had stopped. Steven Pinker actually looks at the data in his book Enlightenment Now and finds that cops are not more likely to kill blacks than whites. It seems to me that some African Americans are holding on to their oppression for their bare lives.

  Guess what is going to stop now?  Policing Black neighborhoods at all.   It seems shootings and homicides are spiking like mad in several cities all over the country, and po po is too busy getting doughnuts and calling backup to be bothered.    You know what else is stopping?  People signing on to be police officers.   Less cops, and the ones who are there are NOT going into areas they can get snagged up in.  Yay.
There's also the possibility that there will be increased quality of the remaining cops to make up for lost quantity. If the ones being lost are the "bad apples" that historically have been the shitbags of the force, then losing them (or their equally shitty replacements) isn't a bad thing.

Well, with crime rising by an average of 50% in the cities where the democrats agreed to defund the police, it sure as fuck doesn't look like your wishful thinking is going to come to pass. What it does look like is that there are ongoing mass migrations from democrat held cities to republican held states because the average person just wants to be left alone to live their life and not worry about some useful idiot burning and looting their business or destroying their home in the name of social justice.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 23, 2022, 08:08:56 PM
Buy some more Large Mansions, battlemaster.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on June 23, 2022, 10:21:51 PM
Jeffy, you're a pussy throwing shit over the net.

OK, groomer.

I hope someday you skip up abd call someone a groomer irl and get your mouth smashed to a bloody pulp you cunt.

Well, if someone smashes my mouth, it sure isn't going to be a flaccid penis like you.

Millions of people have died of covid and you weren't one of them. That's tragic..

Nah. It just means that I'm not done saving my corner of civilization from useful idiots like you, groomer. Now why don't you slink off and cry about it like the impotent brainwashed retard you are.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Jeff, your commentary has been fucking hilarious, and righteous, my friend!

Relaxing here, smoking a fine cigar and drinking some fresh coffee, got me roaring in laughter reading this!

Beautiful watching you fucking break down a whining, pussy Liberal.

That reminds me. I've seen *many* live videos of ANTIFA pussies talking tough, like they are some serious "Action Hero"--and male or female alike, they attempt to get violent most often against kids, older people, or someone that is unarmed and outnumbered.

THEN, a real, bearded, right-thinking Neanderthal arrives, and the FUN begins! The ANTIFA pussies REEE for mommy as they get fucking CURB STOMPED! Liberal fucktards last about five minutes, and utterly FAIL, like a cowardly, flaccid penis! They *dream* so hard of being a righteous and strong warrior--but they fail completely, and get fucking ploughed like a soft field on a fine day.

Deep down, Liberal cunts are bullies, cowards, and Cosplay jackasses.

RELENTLESS, Jeff!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 23, 2022, 11:55:44 PM
OK, for the rightards:

BLM violence began after decades of police abusing, beating, framing abd murdering blacks are far higher rates than whites. It began after cases of police clearly murdering blacks and getting away with it began getting caught on video.

The trumptards rioted because they lost an election.

The thing that is really suspect here is that BLM’s violence started AFTER the tendency of police to shoot blacks had stopped. Steven Pinker actually looks at the data in his book Enlightenment Now and finds that cops are not more likely to kill blacks than whites. It seems to me that some African Americans are holding on to their oppression for their bare lives.

  Guess what is going to stop now?  Policing Black neighborhoods at all.   It seems shootings and homicides are spiking like mad in several cities all over the country, and po po is too busy getting doughnuts and calling backup to be bothered.    You know what else is stopping?  People signing on to be police officers.   Less cops, and the ones who are there are NOT going into areas they can get snagged up in.  Yay.
There's also the possibility that there will be increased quality of the remaining cops to make up for lost quantity. If the ones being lost are the "bad apples" that historically have been the shitbags of the force, then losing them (or their equally shitty replacements) isn't a bad thing.

Well, with crime rising by an average of 50% in the cities where the democrats agreed to defund the police, it sure as fuck doesn't look like your wishful thinking is going to come to pass. What it does look like is that there are ongoing mass migrations from democrat held cities to republican held states because the average person just wants to be left alone to live their life and not worry about some useful idiot burning and looting their business or destroying their home in the name of social justice.

Sites like RPG.net seem to embody the now very widespread woke tendency to demonize the police and those who support them with rules like being able to discuss police shootings only within the context of appreciating how terrible they are, and not as regards discussing what actually happened, or even on the same thread discussing how police reform or whatever could be logically achieved or what the broader statistics actually are instead of just defunding and villainizing entire police departments. And then they wonder why their reactionary policies have negative effects on policing and crime, or the willingness of police to stay and tolerate abuse.

 Annually there's like one fatal police shooting per every 800 cops or something crazy low like that. https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ (Divide each year by 800,000 US cops.) Likewise, while black people are 2.9 times more likely to be fatally shot according to that site, they also have a disproportionate representation in the violent crime rate almost as high. https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/revcoa18.pdf

I'm not saying that there are no racist cops, or that there isn't some degree of such activity in play with the numbers, but they were much more reasonable numbers than I had been led to believe. For violence, rather than outright fatal shootings, the numbers are admittedly a little less balanced, even with violence and likelihood of the recipient of said effects being armed factored in. But even then, it's within 40% deviation from what you would expect for whites. (Which is still admittedly a bit high, and maybe if the data is legit that actually bears looking at. But the point is that hands up don't shoot specifically is kinda BS as regards statistical analysis.)

No wonder they won't tolerate debate on their site. They may well be afraid to acknowledge statistical truths.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 24, 2022, 12:17:49 AM
Failed to include something showing higher levels of police violence towards equally resisting blacks (and hispanics, apparently). https://www.nber.org/papers/w22399?utm_campaign=ntw&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ntw

Though in police stops they seem about equally likely to be hurt or whatever and they get stopped more often. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/25/study-finds-blacks-arent-more-likely-to-get-hurt-during-police-stops/

So IDK.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on June 24, 2022, 02:47:28 AM
Annually there's like one fatal police shooting per every 800 cops or something crazy low like that. https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ (Divide each year by 800,000 US cops.) Likewise, while black people are 2.9 times more likely to be fatally shot according to that site, they also have a disproportionate representation in the violent crime rate almost as high. https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/revcoa18.pdf

I'm not saying that there are no racist cops, or that there isn't some degree of such activity in play with the numbers, but they were much more reasonable numbers than I had been led to believe. For violence, rather than outright fatal shootings, the numbers are admittedly a little less balanced, even with violence and likelihood of the recipient of said effects being armed factored in.
Failed to include something showing higher levels of police violence towards equally resisting blacks (and hispanics, apparently). https://www.nber.org/papers/w22399?utm_campaign=ntw&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ntw

Though in police stops they seem about equally likely to be hurt or whatever and they get stopped more often. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/25/study-finds-blacks-arent-more-likely-to-get-hurt-during-police-stops/

So IDK.

Yeah, I find it hard to tell as well. Statistics on policing are very difficult to get truly controlled comparisons - and there are plenty of people on both sides who give mistaken or false impressions. It's very difficult to either prove or disprove racial bias in the field. You noted disproportionate representation in violent crime (i.e. black people tend to be more violent), but that itself is a function of policing. The U.S. legal system gives a wide range of latitude to police and prosecutors about what crimes get charged for given events. The same behavior could be let off with a warning, or they could throw the book at the offender.

From my observation, there is often obvious class bias in policing. A millionaire whose kid goes missing will get lots of attention from officers, while a family in poverty has to wait in line. Racial bias is less visible to me personally, but I know people who spoke of their experience believably.

Further, it's possible for there to be plenty of variety. Different police will have different biases, so local statistics might not match national statistics.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on June 24, 2022, 03:10:25 AM
So if Mistwell had just said an officer was "hit" on the head instead of "beat" on the head, then you'd be fine with his statement? That sounds rather hair-splitting compared to other statements in this thread.

I disagree. An unruly event where things are thrown and someone gets hit is bad, but I think someone repeatedly hitting someone over the head is worse.
And I think the choice of beat over hit is rhetorically intentional to make it sound worse.

And you just used rhetoric by describing this in the passive voice as "things are thrown and someone gets hit" -- which implies that it was purely accidental that the officers were hit. The rioters were not playing catch with the fire extinguishers and an officer accidentally got in the way. The fire extinguishers was deliberately thrown at the officers' heads to hit them. Some of the other rioters deliberately attacked officers by throwing them down stairs, hitting them with poles, pepper spraying them, etc.

I try to look over my descriptions for bias, but I'm sure I have bias that shows as well. We all do it.

It's fine to point it out in others, but one should own that it's in ourselves and our own side too.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 24, 2022, 03:35:25 AM
So if Mistwell had just said an officer was "hit" on the head instead of "beat" on the head, then you'd be fine with his statement? That sounds rather hair-splitting compared to other statements in this thread.

I disagree. An unruly event where things are thrown and someone gets hit is bad, but I think someone repeatedly hitting someone over the head is worse.
And I think the choice of beat over hit is rhetorically intentional to make it sound worse.

And you just used rhetoric by describing this in the passive voice as "things are thrown and someone gets hit" -- which implies that it was purely accidental that the officers were hit. The rioters were not playing catch with the fire extinguishers and an officer accidentally got in the way. The fire extinguishers was deliberately thrown at the officers' heads to hit them. Some of the other rioters deliberately attacked officers by throwing them down stairs, hitting them with poles, pepper spraying them, etc.

I try to look over my descriptions for bias, but I'm sure I have bias that shows as well. We all do it.

It's fine to point it out in others, but one should own that it's in ourselves and our own side too.
No, you're just trying to spin it negatively. Ratman's first sentence describes objects being throw into a crowd. It does not imply that it was an accident, just that it wasn't targeted, and perhaps that it wasn't clear who originated the throw. In the context of a riot, nobody would ever assume that people were just tossing fire extinguishers to each other and oops! someone stepped into the middle. That's a completely unreasonable conclusion.

You're doing what TBP loves to do, which is to interpret what other people say in a way that makes it looks like they're saying something biased or false or terrible. To do it, you're not just assuming bad faith, you're selectively interpreting what they say in the worst possible way. And you're not just acting in bad faith, you're being actively dishonest, because you're ignoring the context that clearly demonstrates your interpretation is wrong. You're doing this to gain an advantage, by making it look like the other person made an argument that's easier to counter than their real argument, or that they said something stupid or offensive that gives you an excuse to dismiss their argument without even addressing it.

You do this all the time, which is why it's impossible to have a good faith discussion with you, and why talking with you becomes an endless series of "no I didn't say that"s.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 24, 2022, 04:18:51 AM
Annually there's like one fatal police shooting per every 800 cops or something crazy low like that. https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ (Divide each year by 800,000 US cops.) Likewise, while black people are 2.9 times more likely to be fatally shot according to that site, they also have a disproportionate representation in the violent crime rate almost as high. https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/revcoa18.pdf

I'm not saying that there are no racist cops, or that there isn't some degree of such activity in play with the numbers, but they were much more reasonable numbers than I had been led to believe. For violence, rather than outright fatal shootings, the numbers are admittedly a little less balanced, even with violence and likelihood of the recipient of said effects being armed factored in.
Failed to include something showing higher levels of police violence towards equally resisting blacks (and hispanics, apparently). https://www.nber.org/papers/w22399?utm_campaign=ntw&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ntw

Though in police stops they seem about equally likely to be hurt or whatever and they get stopped more often. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/25/study-finds-blacks-arent-more-likely-to-get-hurt-during-police-stops/

So IDK.

Yeah, I find it hard to tell as well. Statistics on policing are very difficult to get truly controlled comparisons - and there are plenty of people on both sides who give mistaken or false impressions. It's very difficult to either prove or disprove racial bias in the field. You noted disproportionate representation in violent crime (i.e. black people tend to be more violent), but that itself is a function of policing. The U.S. legal system gives a wide range of latitude to police and prosecutors about what crimes get charged for given events. The same behavior could be let off with a warning, or they could throw the book at the offender.

From my observation, there is often obvious class bias in policing. A millionaire whose kid goes missing will get lots of attention from officers, while a family in poverty has to wait in line. Racial bias is less visible to me personally, but I know people who spoke of their experience believably.

Further, it's possible for there to be plenty of variety. Different police will have different biases, so local statistics might not match national statistics.

And the obfuscation begins because the facts disagree with the narrative being pushed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 24, 2022, 04:21:18 AM
So if Mistwell had just said an officer was "hit" on the head instead of "beat" on the head, then you'd be fine with his statement? That sounds rather hair-splitting compared to other statements in this thread.

I disagree. An unruly event where things are thrown and someone gets hit is bad, but I think someone repeatedly hitting someone over the head is worse.
And I think the choice of beat over hit is rhetorically intentional to make it sound worse.

And you just used rhetoric by describing this in the passive voice as "things are thrown and someone gets hit" -- which implies that it was purely accidental that the officers were hit. The rioters were not playing catch with the fire extinguishers and an officer accidentally got in the way. The fire extinguishers was deliberately thrown at the officers' heads to hit them. Some of the other rioters deliberately attacked officers by throwing them down stairs, hitting them with poles, pepper spraying them, etc.

I try to look over my descriptions for bias, but I'm sure I have bias that shows as well. We all do it.

It's fine to point it out in others, but one should own that it's in ourselves and our own side too.

Your bias has flown in the face of facts and logic so many times because you want to push a leftist agenda like a social Marxist cheerleader.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on June 24, 2022, 05:57:56 AM
Jeffy, you're a pussy throwing shit over the net. I hope someday you skip up abd call someone a groomer irl and get your mouth smashed to a bloody pulp you cunt. Millions of people have died of covid and you weren't one of them. That's tragic..

150 million Americans according to Biden.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 24, 2022, 06:15:51 AM
So if Mistwell had just said an officer was "hit" on the head instead of "beat" on the head, then you'd be fine with his statement? That sounds rather hair-splitting compared to other statements in this thread.

I disagree. An unruly event where things are thrown and someone gets hit is bad, but I think someone repeatedly hitting someone over the head is worse.
And I think the choice of beat over hit is rhetorically intentional to make it sound worse.

And you just used rhetoric by describing this in the passive voice as "things are thrown and someone gets hit" -- which implies that it was purely accidental that the officers were hit. The rioters were not playing catch with the fire extinguishers and an officer accidentally got in the way.

There's rhetoric and then there's being pedantic. I can't imagine anyone following this thread thought I was implying that throwing a fire extinguisher during a riot was accidental, or part of a game of catch.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 24, 2022, 08:28:09 AM
Jeffy, you're a pussy throwing shit over the net. I hope someday you skip up abd call someone a groomer irl and get your mouth smashed to a bloody pulp you cunt. Millions of people have died of covid and you weren't one of them. That's tragic..

150 million Americans according to Biden.

He never said that you fucking sack of lieing shit.

Altho I wish it had killed a lot more trumpists especially in swing states.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on June 24, 2022, 08:32:19 AM
There's rhetoric and then there's being pedantic. I can't imagine anyone following this thread thought I was implying that throwing a fire extinguisher during a riot was accidental, or part of a game of catch.
To be a Leftist, one must pretend not to know certain things, even if they were the one who said them just before their latest pivot.

That’s what happens when your purpose for having a discussion isn’t to find truth or genuine consensus, but to try and exert control through their narrative.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on June 24, 2022, 08:43:28 AM
Jeffy, you're a pussy throwing shit over the net. I hope someday you skip up abd call someone a groomer irl and get your mouth smashed to a bloody pulp you cunt. Millions of people have died of covid and you weren't one of them. That's tragic..

150 million Americans according to Biden.

He never said that you fucking sack of lieing shit.


Altho I wish it had killed a lot more trumpists especially in swing states.

No, he said only 120 million Americans died from Covid.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9NYS53lbk8

He said 150 million Americans died from "gun violence." Since 2007, that is.   Half of the country's population.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mapUtZQwYcU

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 24, 2022, 08:46:12 AM
Jeffy, you're a pussy throwing shit over the net. I hope someday you skip up abd call someone a groomer irl and get your mouth smashed to a bloody pulp you cunt. Millions of people have died of covid and you weren't one of them. That's tragic..

150 million Americans according to Biden.

He never said that you fucking sack of lieing shit.

Altho I wish it had killed a lot more trumpists especially in swing states.

  Well of course you wish that, since they seem to start voting democrat post death or confinement to nursing homes.   
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 24, 2022, 08:49:40 AM
  The problem with claiming racism in policing...you have to be a literal mind reader to determine this, unless an officer states explicitly his/her racism.   Otherwise you have to use  a disparity in statistics...the problem there is there are disparities in demographic behavior that track right along with those policing disparities that you have to ignore to try to make a point.  I think spending the money and effort to keep Black families intact with fathers would do LOTS more than burning, looting, and murdering.  But given the people who got the massive sum of the money (BLM) are communist lesbians who have a stated goal of dismantling the nuclear family....well..... expect the riots to continues whenever a distraction/lever is needed. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 24, 2022, 09:11:21 AM
  The problem with claiming racism in policing...you have to be a literal mind reader to determine this, unless an officer states explicitly his/her racism.   Otherwise you have to use  a disparity in statistics...the problem there is there are disparities in demographic behavior that track right along with those policing disparities that you have to ignore to try to make a point.  I think spending the money and effort to keep Black families intact with fathers would do LOTS more than burning, looting, and murdering.  But given the people who got the massive sum of the money (BLM) are communist lesbians who have a stated goal of dismantling the nuclear family....well..... expect the riots to continues whenever a distraction/lever is needed.

I think there’s something to be said for all this.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 24, 2022, 10:08:58 AM
Watching the TBP freakout over the recent SCOTUS decision to kick New York's gun control laws in the nuts is simultaneously hilarious and horrific.

It's hilarious for the obvious reasons: people running around screaming about Obergefell being next. The irony is that part of the SCOTUS decision hinges on the same legal framework as Obergefell. As one pro-2A blogger put it:

Quote
In Obergefell, the Court decided that the 14th Amendment required that gays be granted equality under the law across state lines, establishing that they do not need to meet any higher standard to have their marriage licenses granted and given full faith and credit.

In NY Rifle & Pistol, the Court decided that the 14th Amendment applied to gun rights and that New York gun owners did not need to meet any higher standard to enjoy their Second Amendment right compared to any other Constitutional right.

In essence, both decisions state that the 14th Amendment means that all rights protected by the Constitution apply equally and a state can’t decide to deny a Constitutional right without due process and that Constitutional rights do not exist on a hierarchy where some rights can only be enjoyed by special privilege.

So how about we all relish in the way they Court has begun applying the 14th Amendment and look for more ways to use it to lift the yoke of government off our backs.

And Leftists, alternatively, attacking the NY Rifle & Pistol decision will pull a thread that unravel Obergefell as well.

It's horrific because now they're talking about how 'we don't need the Supreme Court, disband it'. Wow, guys. Why not just go whole hog, insist the Constitution is a threat to your democracy, and demand it be discarded?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 24, 2022, 10:14:23 AM
Jeffy, you're a pussy throwing shit over the net. I hope someday you skip up abd call someone a groomer irl and get your mouth smashed to a bloody pulp you cunt. Millions of people have died of covid and you weren't one of them. That's tragic..

150 million Americans according to Biden.

He never said that you fucking sack of lieing shit.

Altho I wish it had killed a lot more trumpists especially in swing states.

And all you can do is whine about it.....
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rgalex on June 24, 2022, 10:30:34 AM
It's about to get worse now that Roe has been overturned.  Get ready for riots all weekend long.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 24, 2022, 10:39:57 AM
It's about to get worse now that Roe has been overturned.  Get ready for riots all weekend long.
Yup, just saw that.

The irony is that it doesn't outlaw abortion. It simply devolves the issue back to the states. Do people think California or New York are going to ban abortion tomorrow?

The Dems COULD have fended this off with a federal law, but that would've taken time away from their grifting, I suppose. Easy way to make money and votes. Even their favorite, Ruth Bader Ginsberg, pointed out it was a shaky precedent and could fall but nah, let's just wave it around some more!

I don't think the zeitgeist is particularly keen on abortion on demand either. The left badly fucked up when they went from 'safe, legal, and rare' to 'shout your abortion' and celebrating it like some kind of horrid sacrament. Well done, lefties; you played yourself.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 24, 2022, 10:43:48 AM
It's about to get worse now that Roe has been overturned.  Get ready for riots all weekend long.

I hope that you are wrong about the riots, but I'm afraid that you may be right.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on June 24, 2022, 10:58:00 AM
It's about to get worse now that Roe has been overturned.  Get ready for riots all weekend long.
Yup, just saw that.

The irony is that it doesn't outlaw abortion. It simply devolves the issue back to the states. Do people think California or New York are going to ban abortion tomorrow?

The Dems COULD have fended this off with a federal law, but that would've taken time away from their grifting, I suppose. Easy way to make money and votes. Even their favorite, Ruth Bader Ginsberg, pointed out it was a shaky precedent and could fall but nah, let's just wave it around some more!

I don't think the zeitgeist is particularly keen on abortion on demand either. The left badly fucked up when they went from 'safe, legal, and rare' to 'shout your abortion' and celebrating it like some kind of horrid sacrament. Well done, lefties; you played yourself.

As with *everything*, leftist activists are useful idiots who don't understand the ruling. Sentient enough to be a trainable, but not enough to think for themselves...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 24, 2022, 11:02:50 AM
It's about to get worse now that Roe has been overturned.  Get ready for riots all weekend long.

I hope that you are wrong about the riots, but I'm afraid that you may be right.

Wouldn't be surprised. If they'll riot over a lack of statistical evidence that black people are being shot by police officers, they'll riot over the definite reduction in scope of what they assume are their rights. Also, get ready for potentially more attempted assaults on justices. Likewise, I bet RPG.net will at least eventually have a few things to say about this recent development, but will not allow for even a smidge of debate over actual philosophy or constitutionality. Just a pity party.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 24, 2022, 11:06:36 AM
Riots?

My response: Do it. DO IT. Come on, stop singing it and BRING IT.

But don't send anyone you're fond of.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on June 24, 2022, 11:07:10 AM
Wouldn't be surprised. If they'll riot over a lack of statistical evidence that black people are being shot by police officers, they'll riot over the definite reduction in scope of what they assume are their rights. Also, get ready for potentially more attempted assaults on justices. Likewise, I bet RPG.net will at least eventually have a few things to say about this recent development, but will not allow for even a smidge of debate over actual philosophy or constitutionality. Just a pity party.

  They decreed back in May (http://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/announcement-re-abortion-rights-are-human-rights.896908/) that 'the right to abortion' is a 'human right', and anyone who criticized it would be considered 'anti-human rights.'
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 24, 2022, 11:09:11 AM
Wouldn't be surprised. If they'll riot over a lack of statistical evidence that black people are being shot by police officers, they'll riot over the definite reduction in scope of what they assume are their rights. Also, get ready for potentially more attempted assaults on justices. Likewise, I bet RPG.net will at least eventually have a few things to say about this recent development, but will not allow for even a smidge of debate over actual philosophy or constitutionality. Just a pity party.

  They established back in May that 'the right to abortion' is a 'human right', and anyone who criticized it would be considered 'anti-human rights.'

Wow. Didn't know that, but not at all surprised.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 24, 2022, 11:34:00 AM
Riots?

My response: Do it. DO IT. Come on, stop singing it and BRING IT.

But don't send anyone you're fond of.

I guess for the people on the right, the silver lining is that every riot that threatens people’s lives and property makes it more difficult to argue against gun rights.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 24, 2022, 11:43:34 AM
Riots?

My response: Do it. DO IT. Come on, stop singing it and BRING IT.

But don't send anyone you're fond of.

I guess for the people on the right, the silver lining is that every riot that threatens people’s lives and property makes it more difficult to argue against gun rights.
Sort of. I'm not happy people get hurt or killed, or lose their livelihoods to feral pseudohumans who go around looting, burning, etc.

But it does draw things into sharp focus. Especially when you toss up next to the left's perpetual attempts to hobble or disrupt law enforcement and criminal justice. They say they want reform, but then they turn around and simply refuse to actually DO anything other than wave their hands and invoke 'social justice'.

Good God, I stand by a comment I made before: any candidate who stated they would seek to end civil asset forfeiture would get my vote. But that's never brought up, because CAF is far too useful to totalitarians regardless of political flavor.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 24, 2022, 11:47:41 AM
Riots?

My response: Do it. DO IT. Come on, stop singing it and BRING IT.

But don't send anyone you're fond of.

I guess for the people on the right, the silver lining is that every riot that threatens people’s lives and property makes it more difficult to argue against gun rights.
Sort of. I'm not happy people get hurt or killed, or lose their livelihoods to feral pseudohumans who go around looting, burning, etc.

But it does draw things into sharp focus. Especially when you toss up next to the left's perpetual attempts to hobble or disrupt law enforcement and criminal justice. They say they want reform, but then they turn around and simply refuse to actually DO anything other than wave their hands and invoke 'social justice'.

Good God, I stand by a comment I made before: any candidate who stated they would seek to end civil asset forfeiture would get my vote. But that's never brought up, because CAF is far too useful to totalitarians regardless of political flavor.

CAF may not legally violate due process, but it should. It's literally criminal justice seizing somebody's property with no evidence of wrongdoing. You should at a bare minimum need judicial approval and have it be tied to a specific filed charge.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 24, 2022, 11:49:22 AM
Riots?

My response: Do it. DO IT. Come on, stop singing it and BRING IT.

But don't send anyone you're fond of.

I guess for the people on the right, the silver lining is that every riot that threatens people’s lives and property makes it more difficult to argue against gun rights.

Maybe. It isn't how I want my gun rights to be protected. I am glad I have the option, though.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 24, 2022, 12:05:39 PM
Riots?

My response: Do it. DO IT. Come on, stop singing it and BRING IT.

But don't send anyone you're fond of.

I guess for the people on the right, the silver lining is that every riot that threatens people’s lives and property makes it more difficult to argue against gun rights.
Sort of. I'm not happy people get hurt or killed, or lose their livelihoods to feral pseudohumans who go around looting, burning, etc.

But it does draw things into sharp focus. Especially when you toss up next to the left's perpetual attempts to hobble or disrupt law enforcement and criminal justice. They say they want reform, but then they turn around and simply refuse to actually DO anything other than wave their hands and invoke 'social justice'.

Good God, I stand by a comment I made before: any candidate who stated they would seek to end civil asset forfeiture would get my vote. But that's never brought up, because CAF is far too useful to totalitarians regardless of political flavor.

CAF may not legally violate due process, but it should. It's literally criminal justice seizing somebody's property with no evidence of wrongdoing. You should at a bare minimum need judicial approval and have it be tied to a specific filed charge.
I assert that it DOES violate due process, as it strips someone of property and puts the onus on them to 'prove' it was not gained through illegal means.

A lot of people do not know this, but CAF does not require charges to be filed against a person. It doesn't even require a criminal proceeding --it's a civil case, hence, civil asset forfeiture.

So what you get is some guy who's traveling with a large quantity of cash. Is he up to no good? Maybe, but last I checked it wasn't illegal to do so. Dumb, yes, but not illegal. He gets stopped and the cash seized. But they don't charge him, oh no. Legally, what you get is charges filed against the cash -- so you get a docket that looks like "City of Podunk vs $25,000' or 'Town of Scumandvillainy vs 2022 Camaro'. And then our victim has to hire an attorney to get it back.

No. This is wrong. I have told cops to their faces, 'If you support CAF, don't even ask me for a quarter.' The problem is that it's amazingly attractive. It makes speed traps and revenue farming with tickets look tiresome in comparison. Voters love it too, at least initially, because it means taxes don't need to be raised to fund the police department. But what it amounts to is theft under color of law. And it's a miracle we haven't had someone react violently to it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 24, 2022, 12:09:08 PM
Riots?

My response: Do it. DO IT. Come on, stop singing it and BRING IT.

But don't send anyone you're fond of.

I guess for the people on the right, the silver lining is that every riot that threatens people’s lives and property makes it more difficult to argue against gun rights.
Sort of. I'm not happy people get hurt or killed, or lose their livelihoods to feral pseudohumans who go around looting, burning, etc.

But it does draw things into sharp focus. Especially when you toss up next to the left's perpetual attempts to hobble or disrupt law enforcement and criminal justice. They say they want reform, but then they turn around and simply refuse to actually DO anything other than wave their hands and invoke 'social justice'.

Good God, I stand by a comment I made before: any candidate who stated they would seek to end civil asset forfeiture would get my vote. But that's never brought up, because CAF is far too useful to totalitarians regardless of political flavor.

CAF may not legally violate due process, but it should. It's literally criminal justice seizing somebody's property with no evidence of wrongdoing. You should at a bare minimum need judicial approval and have it be tied to a specific filed charge.
I assert that it DOES violate due process, as it strips someone of property and puts the onus on them to 'prove' it was not gained through illegal means.

A lot of people do not know this, but CAF does not require charges to be filed against a person. It doesn't even require a criminal proceeding --it's a civil case, hence, civil asset forfeiture.

So what you get is some guy who's traveling with a large quantity of cash. Is he up to no good? Maybe, but last I checked it wasn't illegal to do so. Dumb, yes, but not illegal. He gets stopped and the cash seized. But they don't charge him, oh no. Legally, what you get is charges filed against the cash -- so you get a docket that looks like "City of Podunk vs $25,000' or 'Town of Scumandvillainy vs 2022 Camaro'. And then our victim has to hire an attorney to get it back.

No. This is wrong. I have told cops to their faces, 'If you support CAF, don't even ask me for a quarter.' The problem is that it's amazingly attractive. It makes speed traps and revenue farming with tickets look tiresome in comparison. Voters love it too, at least initially, because it means taxes don't need to be raised to fund the police department. But what it amounts to is theft under color of law. And it's a miracle we haven't had someone react violently to it.

More people need to read and know this stuff for sure. Knew most of what you said, but wasn't aware it was used so typically to fund departments to that extent of reliance.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on June 24, 2022, 12:21:03 PM
Greetings!

It always amazes me how sadly ignorant, and pathetically educated Liberals are, especially about guns, the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution, and the history and politics of our Founding Fathers.

The 2nd Amendment was not written so that citizens could keep rifles to hunt deer. However, such an aspect is a secondary benefit, and also reflects a critically important right, and capability.

To be blunt, the 2nd Amendment was written so that citizens would be fully armed and capable of killing police, militia, and professional troops of the government, and reserving a distinct capacity of the citizenry to forcibly exterminate a corrupt and evil government, so as to replace it with a more suitable and righteous government that respects and honours the people of the nation.

Furthermore, while the specifics of defending yourself, your home, and local community in those long ago days featured outlaws, brigands, rebels of various flavours, as well as bands of savage Indians, and may at first glance seem alien and way different from us currently--the basic principle is for the average man, the American citizen, remain fully armed and equipped to protect himself, his home, and his local community, from whatever dangers or threats that may come his way.

The ideology then--reflected through the spirit of the US Constitution--is that every man not only has a God-given right to be armed and to protect himself--but a primary duty and responsibility to do so. It is all part of cultivating the spirit and society of a strong, and fiercely independent culture. It is not a man's constant obligation to meekly wait like a subdued sheep for "The Authorities" to arrive and take care of the problem. In many cases, as noted--the 'Authorities" themselves may be the problem that needs to be eliminated. In other instances and circumstances, it is the citizen that is considered to be fully ready and able to take care of business.

So, in our modern era, and especially so in these harsh and increasingly dangerous times that we live in, the genius and foresight of establishing the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution is crystal clear. The 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution has both primary applications, as well as secondary applications. The 2nd Amendment is the strong foundation to establishing freedom, liberty, and independence for the American people, and exercising and protecting this absolutely fundamental right is under constant threat and attack from petty government bureaucrats, politicians, and public demagogues at large everyday. Every good American must be ready and get informed and involved in keeping our gun rights strong.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 24, 2022, 12:24:30 PM
Also, I am like, 99.9% sure that if anybody tried to bring up CAF on police reform on RPG.net, they would immediately be at best chided for steering the conversation away from their subject of worship, minority victimization. Or heck, how a more widespread use the 2nd amendment can help take the burden off police, which I think is part of what SHARK just posted. Most direct crimes that fail, and many never attempted, are stopped with a gun, either its use or just its presence.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 24, 2022, 12:45:01 PM
To be blunt, the 2nd Amendment was written so that citizens would be fully armed and capable of killing police, militia, and professional troops of the government, and reserving a distinct capacity of the citizenry to forcibly exterminate a corrupt and evil government, so as to replace it with a more suitable and righteous government that respects and honours the people of the nation.

Furthermore, while the specifics of defending yourself, your home, and local community in those long ago days featured outlaws, brigands, rebels of various flavours, as well as bands of savage Indians, and may at first glance seem alien and way different from us currently--the basic principle is for the average man, the American citizen, remain fully armed and equipped to protect himself, his home, and his local community, from whatever dangers or threats that may come his way.

The ideology then--reflected through the spirit of the US Constitution--is that every man not only has a God-given right to be armed and to protect himself--but a primary duty and responsibility to do so. It is all part of cultivating the spirit and society of a strong, and fiercely independent culture. It is not a man's constant obligation to meekly wait like a subdued sheep for "The Authorities" to arrive and take care of the problem. In many cases, as noted--the 'Authorities" themselves may be the problem that needs to be eliminated. In other instances and circumstances, it is the citizen that is considered to be fully ready and able to take care of business.
It's always funny when you post America rah-rah-rah, and use British spellings.

This is the kind of thing they should be teaching in schools. And not just theory, but practical lessons -- i.e. shooting lessons. Teaching kids the care and use of firearms is the kind of thing that states could implement on their own. Having a generation of kids familiar with firearms could change the dynamic, because a lot of the fear of guns is based on ignorance.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 24, 2022, 01:07:15 PM
To be blunt, the 2nd Amendment was written so that citizens would be fully armed and capable of killing police, militia, and professional troops of the government, and reserving a distinct capacity of the citizenry to forcibly exterminate a corrupt and evil government, so as to replace it with a more suitable and righteous government that respects and honours the people of the nation.

Furthermore, while the specifics of defending yourself, your home, and local community in those long ago days featured outlaws, brigands, rebels of various flavours, as well as bands of savage Indians, and may at first glance seem alien and way different from us currently--the basic principle is for the average man, the American citizen, remain fully armed and equipped to protect himself, his home, and his local community, from whatever dangers or threats that may come his way.

The ideology then--reflected through the spirit of the US Constitution--is that every man not only has a God-given right to be armed and to protect himself--but a primary duty and responsibility to do so. It is all part of cultivating the spirit and society of a strong, and fiercely independent culture. It is not a man's constant obligation to meekly wait like a subdued sheep for "The Authorities" to arrive and take care of the problem. In many cases, as noted--the 'Authorities" themselves may be the problem that needs to be eliminated. In other instances and circumstances, it is the citizen that is considered to be fully ready and able to take care of business.
It's always funny when you post America rah-rah-rah, and use British spellings.

This is the kind of thing they should be teaching in schools. And not just theory, but practical lessons -- i.e. shooting lessons. Teaching kids the care and use of firearms is the kind of thing that states could implement on their own. Having a generation of kids familiar with firearms could change the dynamic, because a lot of the fear of guns is based on ignorance.

There would very likely be more incidents similar to the Battle of Athens in 1946.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on June 24, 2022, 01:21:51 PM
  I guess with the monkey pox and SCOTUS, Moloch is having a bad month, or is it Baphomet and Moloch? 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 24, 2022, 02:00:01 PM
*I* want to bring in Antifa? Oh Pat, you've gotten lost mate. Follow the conversation. Where is it you think we started my man?

The point all along has been about comparing Antifa violence to Jan 6 violence and people claiming Jan 6 was non-violent, with me saying no they were in fact violent.  Sicknick was just one in many many points I made to demonstrate they were also violent on Jan 6. I've proven it was violent and rather than talk to that point you want to focus on trying to play gotcha without ever speaking to the issue we're talking about. You got so far from the point that you now think I am the one bringing Antifa to the conversation. Fuck dude, there is a forest around you. Stop beating your head on that tree. Not me who brought Antifa to this conversation I am just responding to what others said. Or did you just forget what the heck we've been talking about?

Tell me Pat, do you agree with what was said, that on Jan 6 everyone in the capital was just "invited" in there by police, they were simply trespassing and wandering the halls, and that they were non-violent? Do you or do you not agree with that statement. Don't be a fucking politician about it, don't ask me to define what "is" is, just answer the simple question as to whether you think that is an accurate assessment of what happened or not.

Because if you don't agree with that statement, I want you to hold the people accountable for saying that at least as much as you have a bug up your ass about Sicknick which was never my point to begin with but that statement WAS the point those guys were making.
Okay, you fucking liar. Where did anyone say this was nonviolent?

Oh wait, that was me!
Except there was context, which you can't strip out without being a complete fucking liar. I pointed out that one side of the building was completely nonviolent. They were invited in. They were respectful. And it's absolutely appalling those people are being treated as terrorists. It's a complete travesty, and it's a sign of the sickness of our federal institutions and how far they've drifted from their often but falsely claimed role as public servants.

And on the other side of the the building, I said it got violent. But not a single protestor was carrying a gun. The FBI admitted there was no organized plan to do anything. It therefore wasn't an insurrection. That's another lie, and it's equally appalling. Because we've just gone through dozens of worse riots, some in the summer of 2020 in response to a completely fictitious narrative, some at supreme court confirmation hearings, some at presidential inaugurations, some at the homes of supreme court justices, and one that even attacked the White House. These were all far worse, because they directly threatened legislators, justices, and chief executives, committed arson, and killed people. Yet the people involved mostly got a slap on the hand.

Which in general, I wouldn't have much of a problem with. I think it's a sign of a functioning democracy that protests are largely tolerated, even when they get violent. Yes, people get arrested. But the charges should usually be minor, and the sentences typically probation. Even property damage or inter-personal violence shouldn't be treated that severely, because this idea that all protests are going to be peaceful is nonsense. Reserve the serious charges for things like bombings, killings, or arson.

But what we're seeing here is the weaponization of Congress, the FBI, and the Department of Justice against the opposition political party. I despise that political party almost as much as I despise you, but hey if I stay silent then next they'll come for X, then Y, and eventually me.

Liar.

Liar.

You miserable piece of shit liar.

And if you ask me one more of your little staged lying questions and demand an answer, I'm going totally scorched earth on your miserable piece of shit ass.

Ok Pat, thank you for conclusively proving you did not, in fact, follow the conversation. No wonder you thought I had brought Antifa to the conversation when I had not. You apparently jumped into the middle of it and didn't even realize what people had said or why they had said it.

Which, for the record, is no big deal. Happens to us all. But, maybe don't go off the rails in anger at someone when they've just mentioned it seemed like you didn't read the beginning and go check next time before replying?

No buddy, my comment was not directed to you. No, I did not take your comments out of context. Yes, someone did in fact say they were non-violent on Jan 6 and no, that person was not you. In fact you didn't even comment on the topic until well after this was said:

" with protestors who were let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one.  "

For more context, he was making a comparison to Antifa violence when he said that. Which is why I was confused earlier when you thought I had brought Antifa to the conversation.

That's the comment which started this. It was from 3cat, not you. That's the topic we've been debating ever since. One other person (also not you) seemed to agree with 3cats take on that. This was quite a while ago. Many pages ago now, and we've been debating that issue a while, sprinkled with some other RPGnet stuff in between responses. But yeah, someone here absolutely was describing the Jan 6 rioters (again not to be confused with protestors) as "harming no one" and just wandering about the capital building after being "let in". It's why I eventually posted that video of police getting their asses kicked and retreating and calling for help as rioters broke through their barriers and attacked.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on June 24, 2022, 02:29:07 PM
I'm still wondering what happened to that asshole Tanka.  Anybody know?  I have some theories, but none are confirmed:

1.  Choked to death on a cock
2.  Died of ruptured colon; lubricated own dice tower and then sat on it
3.  TDS-induced stroke
4.  Not dead, but fired from RPG.net for sexual harassment of women (typical behavior for male feminists)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 24, 2022, 03:23:37 PM
*I* want to bring in Antifa? Oh Pat, you've gotten lost mate. Follow the conversation. Where is it you think we started my man?

The point all along has been about comparing Antifa violence to Jan 6 violence and people claiming Jan 6 was non-violent, with me saying no they were in fact violent.  Sicknick was just one in many many points I made to demonstrate they were also violent on Jan 6. I've proven it was violent and rather than talk to that point you want to focus on trying to play gotcha without ever speaking to the issue we're talking about. You got so far from the point that you now think I am the one bringing Antifa to the conversation. Fuck dude, there is a forest around you. Stop beating your head on that tree. Not me who brought Antifa to this conversation I am just responding to what others said. Or did you just forget what the heck we've been talking about?

Tell me Pat, do you agree with what was said, that on Jan 6 everyone in the capital was just "invited" in there by police, they were simply trespassing and wandering the halls, and that they were non-violent? Do you or do you not agree with that statement. Don't be a fucking politician about it, don't ask me to define what "is" is, just answer the simple question as to whether you think that is an accurate assessment of what happened or not.

Because if you don't agree with that statement, I want you to hold the people accountable for saying that at least as much as you have a bug up your ass about Sicknick which was never my point to begin with but that statement WAS the point those guys were making.
Okay, you fucking liar. Where did anyone say this was nonviolent?

Oh wait, that was me!
Except there was context, which you can't strip out without being a complete fucking liar. I pointed out that one side of the building was completely nonviolent. They were invited in. They were respectful. And it's absolutely appalling those people are being treated as terrorists. It's a complete travesty, and it's a sign of the sickness of our federal institutions and how far they've drifted from their often but falsely claimed role as public servants.

And on the other side of the the building, I said it got violent. But not a single protestor was carrying a gun. The FBI admitted there was no organized plan to do anything. It therefore wasn't an insurrection. That's another lie, and it's equally appalling. Because we've just gone through dozens of worse riots, some in the summer of 2020 in response to a completely fictitious narrative, some at supreme court confirmation hearings, some at presidential inaugurations, some at the homes of supreme court justices, and one that even attacked the White House. These were all far worse, because they directly threatened legislators, justices, and chief executives, committed arson, and killed people. Yet the people involved mostly got a slap on the hand.

Which in general, I wouldn't have much of a problem with. I think it's a sign of a functioning democracy that protests are largely tolerated, even when they get violent. Yes, people get arrested. But the charges should usually be minor, and the sentences typically probation. Even property damage or inter-personal violence shouldn't be treated that severely, because this idea that all protests are going to be peaceful is nonsense. Reserve the serious charges for things like bombings, killings, or arson.

But what we're seeing here is the weaponization of Congress, the FBI, and the Department of Justice against the opposition political party. I despise that political party almost as much as I despise you, but hey if I stay silent then next they'll come for X, then Y, and eventually me.

Liar.

Liar.

You miserable piece of shit liar.

And if you ask me one more of your little staged lying questions and demand an answer, I'm going totally scorched earth on your miserable piece of shit ass.

Ok Pat, thank you for conclusively proving you did not, in fact, follow the conversation. No wonder you thought I had brought Antifa to the conversation when I had not. You apparently jumped into the middle of it and didn't even realize what people had said or why they had said it.

Which, for the record, is no big deal. Happens to us all. But, maybe don't go off the rails in anger at someone when they've just mentioned it seemed like you didn't read the beginning and go check next time before replying?

No buddy, my comment was not directed to you. No, I did not take your comments out of context. Yes, someone did in fact say they were non-violent on Jan 6 and no, that person was not you. In fact you didn't even comment on the topic until well after this was said:

" with protestors who were let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one.  "

For more context, he was making a comparison to Antifa violence when he said that. Which is why I was confused earlier when you thought I had brought Antifa to the conversation.

That's the comment which started this. It was from 3cat, not you. That's the topic we've been debating ever since. One other person (also not you) seemed to agree with 3cats take on that. This was quite a while ago. Many pages ago now, and we've been debating that issue a while, sprinkled with some other RPGnet stuff in between responses. But yeah, someone here absolutely was describing the Jan 6 rioters (again not to be confused with protestors) as "harming no one" and just wandering about the capital building after being "let in". It's why I eventually posted that video of police getting their asses kicked and retreating and calling for help as rioters broke through their barriers and attacked.
Don't project your own failure to follow the conversation onto others, you smarmy piece of shit. You replied to my posts, and made a statement that applied to a previous post of mine. I responded to that, rather than bringing anyone else into the vile pile of sewage and lies you were spewing. That in no way suggests that I was unfamiliar with other posts, and the only way you can draw that conclusion is just to make shit up. Which you do, because you're disingenuously attempting to avoid addressing the topic.

Speaking of you lying, you did bring up Antifa. You raised it in reply to one my posts. And then you lied about bringing it up, and now you're lying about it again.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 24, 2022, 03:44:01 PM
*I* want to bring in Antifa? Oh Pat, you've gotten lost mate. Follow the conversation. Where is it you think we started my man?

The point all along has been about comparing Antifa violence to Jan 6 violence and people claiming Jan 6 was non-violent, with me saying no they were in fact violent.  Sicknick was just one in many many points I made to demonstrate they were also violent on Jan 6. I've proven it was violent and rather than talk to that point you want to focus on trying to play gotcha without ever speaking to the issue we're talking about. You got so far from the point that you now think I am the one bringing Antifa to the conversation. Fuck dude, there is a forest around you. Stop beating your head on that tree. Not me who brought Antifa to this conversation I am just responding to what others said. Or did you just forget what the heck we've been talking about?

Tell me Pat, do you agree with what was said, that on Jan 6 everyone in the capital was just "invited" in there by police, they were simply trespassing and wandering the halls, and that they were non-violent? Do you or do you not agree with that statement. Don't be a fucking politician about it, don't ask me to define what "is" is, just answer the simple question as to whether you think that is an accurate assessment of what happened or not.

Because if you don't agree with that statement, I want you to hold the people accountable for saying that at least as much as you have a bug up your ass about Sicknick which was never my point to begin with but that statement WAS the point those guys were making.
Okay, you fucking liar. Where did anyone say this was nonviolent?

Oh wait, that was me!
Except there was context, which you can't strip out without being a complete fucking liar. I pointed out that one side of the building was completely nonviolent. They were invited in. They were respectful. And it's absolutely appalling those people are being treated as terrorists. It's a complete travesty, and it's a sign of the sickness of our federal institutions and how far they've drifted from their often but falsely claimed role as public servants.

And on the other side of the the building, I said it got violent. But not a single protestor was carrying a gun. The FBI admitted there was no organized plan to do anything. It therefore wasn't an insurrection. That's another lie, and it's equally appalling. Because we've just gone through dozens of worse riots, some in the summer of 2020 in response to a completely fictitious narrative, some at supreme court confirmation hearings, some at presidential inaugurations, some at the homes of supreme court justices, and one that even attacked the White House. These were all far worse, because they directly threatened legislators, justices, and chief executives, committed arson, and killed people. Yet the people involved mostly got a slap on the hand.

Which in general, I wouldn't have much of a problem with. I think it's a sign of a functioning democracy that protests are largely tolerated, even when they get violent. Yes, people get arrested. But the charges should usually be minor, and the sentences typically probation. Even property damage or inter-personal violence shouldn't be treated that severely, because this idea that all protests are going to be peaceful is nonsense. Reserve the serious charges for things like bombings, killings, or arson.

But what we're seeing here is the weaponization of Congress, the FBI, and the Department of Justice against the opposition political party. I despise that political party almost as much as I despise you, but hey if I stay silent then next they'll come for X, then Y, and eventually me.

Liar.

Liar.

You miserable piece of shit liar.

And if you ask me one more of your little staged lying questions and demand an answer, I'm going totally scorched earth on your miserable piece of shit ass.

Ok Pat, thank you for conclusively proving you did not, in fact, follow the conversation. No wonder you thought I had brought Antifa to the conversation when I had not. You apparently jumped into the middle of it and didn't even realize what people had said or why they had said it.

Which, for the record, is no big deal. Happens to us all. But, maybe don't go off the rails in anger at someone when they've just mentioned it seemed like you didn't read the beginning and go check next time before replying?

No buddy, my comment was not directed to you. No, I did not take your comments out of context. Yes, someone did in fact say they were non-violent on Jan 6 and no, that person was not you. In fact you didn't even comment on the topic until well after this was said:

" with protestors who were let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one.  "

For more context, he was making a comparison to Antifa violence when he said that. Which is why I was confused earlier when you thought I had brought Antifa to the conversation.

That's the comment which started this. It was from 3cat, not you. That's the topic we've been debating ever since. One other person (also not you) seemed to agree with 3cats take on that. This was quite a while ago. Many pages ago now, and we've been debating that issue a while, sprinkled with some other RPGnet stuff in between responses. But yeah, someone here absolutely was describing the Jan 6 rioters (again not to be confused with protestors) as "harming no one" and just wandering about the capital building after being "let in". It's why I eventually posted that video of police getting their asses kicked and retreating and calling for help as rioters broke through their barriers and attacked.
Don't project your own failure to follow the conversation onto others, you smarmy piece of shit. You replied to my posts, and made a statement that applied to a previous post of mine. I responded to that, rather than bringing anyone else into the vile pile of sewage and lies you were spewing. That in no way suggests that I was unfamiliar with other posts, and the only way you can draw that conclusion is just to make shit up. Which you do, because you're disingenuously attempting to avoid addressing the topic.

Speaking of you lying, you did bring up Antifa. You raised it in reply to one my posts. And then you lied about bringing it up, and now you're lying about it again.

When you told me that I was bringing Antifa into the conversation and I explained no I had not someone else had (which they had), that was me telling you that you seemed confused about the responses. And you're doubling down, even though you just fucking said that nobody had claimed the rioters were non-violent when you've just seen conclusive proof you were wrong on that.

Pat, it's OK that you jumped in the middle of a conversation. It's also normal for me to assume you've read what's come before and understood what you were commenting on. But once you see for sure that you were wrong and someone had in fact described them as non-violent, it falls on you to figure that shit out and apologize for the mistake. Not double down and get defensive and act like I was lying when you now realize you really were wrong in saying that.

Be an adult. Just say whoops you messed up and move on. Don't be that guy who can't admit he messed up.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on June 24, 2022, 04:02:37 PM

Hey,  calm down they were all Trumpists that died so now they can all start to vote for Biden.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 24, 2022, 04:14:37 PM
I'm still wondering what happened to that asshole Tanka.  Anybody know?  I have some theories, but none are confirmed:

1.  Choked to death on a cock
2.  Died of ruptured colon; lubricated own dice tower and then sat on it
3.  TDS-induced stroke
4.  Not dead, but fired from RPG.net for sexual harassment of women (typical behavior for male feminists)
Heh. Could be any of the above. Or he could've just gotten pissy about being told no and quit.

His last post was 2/21/22, his last login 4/21/22. There's no way to tell when his mod status was removed. His signature still has 'RPGnet Moderator' in it.

One of life's great mysteries, I suppose.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 24, 2022, 04:38:20 PM
*I* want to bring in Antifa? Oh Pat, you've gotten lost mate. Follow the conversation. Where is it you think we started my man?

The point all along has been about comparing Antifa violence to Jan 6 violence and people claiming Jan 6 was non-violent, with me saying no they were in fact violent.  Sicknick was just one in many many points I made to demonstrate they were also violent on Jan 6. I've proven it was violent and rather than talk to that point you want to focus on trying to play gotcha without ever speaking to the issue we're talking about. You got so far from the point that you now think I am the one bringing Antifa to the conversation. Fuck dude, there is a forest around you. Stop beating your head on that tree. Not me who brought Antifa to this conversation I am just responding to what others said. Or did you just forget what the heck we've been talking about?

Tell me Pat, do you agree with what was said, that on Jan 6 everyone in the capital was just "invited" in there by police, they were simply trespassing and wandering the halls, and that they were non-violent? Do you or do you not agree with that statement. Don't be a fucking politician about it, don't ask me to define what "is" is, just answer the simple question as to whether you think that is an accurate assessment of what happened or not.

Because if you don't agree with that statement, I want you to hold the people accountable for saying that at least as much as you have a bug up your ass about Sicknick which was never my point to begin with but that statement WAS the point those guys were making.
Okay, you fucking liar. Where did anyone say this was nonviolent?

Oh wait, that was me!
Except there was context, which you can't strip out without being a complete fucking liar. I pointed out that one side of the building was completely nonviolent. They were invited in. They were respectful. And it's absolutely appalling those people are being treated as terrorists. It's a complete travesty, and it's a sign of the sickness of our federal institutions and how far they've drifted from their often but falsely claimed role as public servants.

And on the other side of the the building, I said it got violent. But not a single protestor was carrying a gun. The FBI admitted there was no organized plan to do anything. It therefore wasn't an insurrection. That's another lie, and it's equally appalling. Because we've just gone through dozens of worse riots, some in the summer of 2020 in response to a completely fictitious narrative, some at supreme court confirmation hearings, some at presidential inaugurations, some at the homes of supreme court justices, and one that even attacked the White House. These were all far worse, because they directly threatened legislators, justices, and chief executives, committed arson, and killed people. Yet the people involved mostly got a slap on the hand.

Which in general, I wouldn't have much of a problem with. I think it's a sign of a functioning democracy that protests are largely tolerated, even when they get violent. Yes, people get arrested. But the charges should usually be minor, and the sentences typically probation. Even property damage or inter-personal violence shouldn't be treated that severely, because this idea that all protests are going to be peaceful is nonsense. Reserve the serious charges for things like bombings, killings, or arson.

But what we're seeing here is the weaponization of Congress, the FBI, and the Department of Justice against the opposition political party. I despise that political party almost as much as I despise you, but hey if I stay silent then next they'll come for X, then Y, and eventually me.

Liar.

Liar.

You miserable piece of shit liar.

And if you ask me one more of your little staged lying questions and demand an answer, I'm going totally scorched earth on your miserable piece of shit ass.

Ok Pat, thank you for conclusively proving you did not, in fact, follow the conversation. No wonder you thought I had brought Antifa to the conversation when I had not. You apparently jumped into the middle of it and didn't even realize what people had said or why they had said it.

Which, for the record, is no big deal. Happens to us all. But, maybe don't go off the rails in anger at someone when they've just mentioned it seemed like you didn't read the beginning and go check next time before replying?

No buddy, my comment was not directed to you. No, I did not take your comments out of context. Yes, someone did in fact say they were non-violent on Jan 6 and no, that person was not you. In fact you didn't even comment on the topic until well after this was said:

" with protestors who were let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one.  "

For more context, he was making a comparison to Antifa violence when he said that. Which is why I was confused earlier when you thought I had brought Antifa to the conversation.

That's the comment which started this. It was from 3cat, not you. That's the topic we've been debating ever since. One other person (also not you) seemed to agree with 3cats take on that. This was quite a while ago. Many pages ago now, and we've been debating that issue a while, sprinkled with some other RPGnet stuff in between responses. But yeah, someone here absolutely was describing the Jan 6 rioters (again not to be confused with protestors) as "harming no one" and just wandering about the capital building after being "let in". It's why I eventually posted that video of police getting their asses kicked and retreating and calling for help as rioters broke through their barriers and attacked.
Don't project your own failure to follow the conversation onto others, you smarmy piece of shit. You replied to my posts, and made a statement that applied to a previous post of mine. I responded to that, rather than bringing anyone else into the vile pile of sewage and lies you were spewing. That in no way suggests that I was unfamiliar with other posts, and the only way you can draw that conclusion is just to make shit up. Which you do, because you're disingenuously attempting to avoid addressing the topic.

Speaking of you lying, you did bring up Antifa. You raised it in reply to one my posts. And then you lied about bringing it up, and now you're lying about it again.

When you told me that I was bringing Antifa into the conversation and I explained no I had not someone else had (which they had), that was me telling you that you seemed confused about the responses. And you're doubling down, even though you just fucking said that nobody had claimed the rioters were non-violent when you've just seen conclusive proof you were wrong on that.

Pat, it's OK that you jumped in the middle of a conversation. It's also normal for me to assume you've read what's come before and understood what you were commenting on. But once you see for sure that you were wrong and someone had in fact described them as non-violent, it falls on you to figure that shit out and apologize for the mistake. Not double down and get defensive and act like I was lying when you now realize you really were wrong in saying that.

Be an adult. Just say whoops you messed up and move on. Don't be that guy who can't admit he messed up.
And you continue to lie.

You brought up Antifa, in a post where you quoted 3 nested replies. Not a single one mentioned Antifa. You brought it up on your own. I questioned whether you wanted to go there, because it was a terrible analogy which would thoroughly undermine your argument, but like the dishonest scumbag you are, you neither addressed the argument nor my criticism. Instead, you fabricated this entire web of suppositions, and dishonestly claimed I believe and said all kinds of things I never did.

Be an adult. Admit you're completely fucking wrong and a terrible human being for trying to project your own faults onto others.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 24, 2022, 04:58:48 PM
*I* want to bring in Antifa? Oh Pat, you've gotten lost mate. Follow the conversation. Where is it you think we started my man?

The point all along has been about comparing Antifa violence to Jan 6 violence and people claiming Jan 6 was non-violent, with me saying no they were in fact violent.  Sicknick was just one in many many points I made to demonstrate they were also violent on Jan 6. I've proven it was violent and rather than talk to that point you want to focus on trying to play gotcha without ever speaking to the issue we're talking about. You got so far from the point that you now think I am the one bringing Antifa to the conversation. Fuck dude, there is a forest around you. Stop beating your head on that tree. Not me who brought Antifa to this conversation I am just responding to what others said. Or did you just forget what the heck we've been talking about?

Tell me Pat, do you agree with what was said, that on Jan 6 everyone in the capital was just "invited" in there by police, they were simply trespassing and wandering the halls, and that they were non-violent? Do you or do you not agree with that statement. Don't be a fucking politician about it, don't ask me to define what "is" is, just answer the simple question as to whether you think that is an accurate assessment of what happened or not.

Because if you don't agree with that statement, I want you to hold the people accountable for saying that at least as much as you have a bug up your ass about Sicknick which was never my point to begin with but that statement WAS the point those guys were making.
Okay, you fucking liar. Where did anyone say this was nonviolent?

Oh wait, that was me!
Except there was context, which you can't strip out without being a complete fucking liar. I pointed out that one side of the building was completely nonviolent. They were invited in. They were respectful. And it's absolutely appalling those people are being treated as terrorists. It's a complete travesty, and it's a sign of the sickness of our federal institutions and how far they've drifted from their often but falsely claimed role as public servants.

And on the other side of the the building, I said it got violent. But not a single protestor was carrying a gun. The FBI admitted there was no organized plan to do anything. It therefore wasn't an insurrection. That's another lie, and it's equally appalling. Because we've just gone through dozens of worse riots, some in the summer of 2020 in response to a completely fictitious narrative, some at supreme court confirmation hearings, some at presidential inaugurations, some at the homes of supreme court justices, and one that even attacked the White House. These were all far worse, because they directly threatened legislators, justices, and chief executives, committed arson, and killed people. Yet the people involved mostly got a slap on the hand.

Which in general, I wouldn't have much of a problem with. I think it's a sign of a functioning democracy that protests are largely tolerated, even when they get violent. Yes, people get arrested. But the charges should usually be minor, and the sentences typically probation. Even property damage or inter-personal violence shouldn't be treated that severely, because this idea that all protests are going to be peaceful is nonsense. Reserve the serious charges for things like bombings, killings, or arson.

But what we're seeing here is the weaponization of Congress, the FBI, and the Department of Justice against the opposition political party. I despise that political party almost as much as I despise you, but hey if I stay silent then next they'll come for X, then Y, and eventually me.

Liar.

Liar.

You miserable piece of shit liar.

And if you ask me one more of your little staged lying questions and demand an answer, I'm going totally scorched earth on your miserable piece of shit ass.

Ok Pat, thank you for conclusively proving you did not, in fact, follow the conversation. No wonder you thought I had brought Antifa to the conversation when I had not. You apparently jumped into the middle of it and didn't even realize what people had said or why they had said it.

Which, for the record, is no big deal. Happens to us all. But, maybe don't go off the rails in anger at someone when they've just mentioned it seemed like you didn't read the beginning and go check next time before replying?

No buddy, my comment was not directed to you. No, I did not take your comments out of context. Yes, someone did in fact say they were non-violent on Jan 6 and no, that person was not you. In fact you didn't even comment on the topic until well after this was said:

" with protestors who were let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one.  "

For more context, he was making a comparison to Antifa violence when he said that. Which is why I was confused earlier when you thought I had brought Antifa to the conversation.

That's the comment which started this. It was from 3cat, not you. That's the topic we've been debating ever since. One other person (also not you) seemed to agree with 3cats take on that. This was quite a while ago. Many pages ago now, and we've been debating that issue a while, sprinkled with some other RPGnet stuff in between responses. But yeah, someone here absolutely was describing the Jan 6 rioters (again not to be confused with protestors) as "harming no one" and just wandering about the capital building after being "let in". It's why I eventually posted that video of police getting their asses kicked and retreating and calling for help as rioters broke through their barriers and attacked.
Don't project your own failure to follow the conversation onto others, you smarmy piece of shit. You replied to my posts, and made a statement that applied to a previous post of mine. I responded to that, rather than bringing anyone else into the vile pile of sewage and lies you were spewing. That in no way suggests that I was unfamiliar with other posts, and the only way you can draw that conclusion is just to make shit up. Which you do, because you're disingenuously attempting to avoid addressing the topic.

Speaking of you lying, you did bring up Antifa. You raised it in reply to one my posts. And then you lied about bringing it up, and now you're lying about it again.

When you told me that I was bringing Antifa into the conversation and I explained no I had not someone else had (which they had), that was me telling you that you seemed confused about the responses. And you're doubling down, even though you just fucking said that nobody had claimed the rioters were non-violent when you've just seen conclusive proof you were wrong on that.

Pat, it's OK that you jumped in the middle of a conversation. It's also normal for me to assume you've read what's come before and understood what you were commenting on. But once you see for sure that you were wrong and someone had in fact described them as non-violent, it falls on you to figure that shit out and apologize for the mistake. Not double down and get defensive and act like I was lying when you now realize you really were wrong in saying that.

Be an adult. Just say whoops you messed up and move on. Don't be that guy who can't admit he messed up.
And you continue to lie.

You brought up Antifa, in a post where you quoted 3 nested replies. Not a single one mentioned Antifa. You brought it up on your own. I questioned whether you wanted to go there, because it was a terrible analogy which would thoroughly undermine your argument, but like the dishonest scumbag you are, you neither addressed the argument nor my criticism. Instead, you fabricated this entire web of suppositions, and dishonestly claimed I believe and said all kinds of things I never did.

Be an adult. Admit you're completely fucking wrong and a terrible human being for trying to project your own faults onto others.

Pat, probably a dozen of us at that point had brought up Antifa. IT WAS THE TOPIC YOU WERE IN THE MIDST OF. You still apparently won't go back and look at that, even though it's all right there for you to see. I assumed you knew what conversation you were in. It's fair for me to assume you know what conversation you jumped into. If you don't, inform yourself. It's not on me to inform you that you might have missed something (though I did try to do that).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on June 24, 2022, 05:05:26 PM
I'm still wondering what happened to that asshole Tanka.  Anybody know?  I have some theories, but none are confirmed:

1.  Choked to death on a cock
2.  Died of ruptured colon; lubricated own dice tower and then sat on it
3.  TDS-induced stroke
4.  Not dead, but fired from RPG.net for sexual harassment of women (typical behavior for male feminists)
Dude, quit stalking your ex.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 24, 2022, 07:03:00 PM
It's about to get worse now that Roe has been overturned.  Get ready for riots all weekend long.

I should have bought a shotgun while I had coronabux.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on June 24, 2022, 07:19:20 PM
Also, I am like, 99.9% sure that if anybody tried to bring up CAF on police reform on RPG.net, they would immediately be at best chided for steering the conversation away from their subject of worship, minority victimization. Or heck, how a more widespread use the 2nd amendment can help take the burden off police, which I think is part of what SHARK just posted. Most direct crimes that fail, and many never attempted, are stopped with a gun, either its use or just its presence.
Just find a case where CAF was used by the police against a minority and talk about that minorities right to due process were violated by the police who used the ill-gotten gains to fund something extremely anti-woke.

Sometimes the best use for trolls is to convince them your enemy is their enemy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 24, 2022, 07:26:52 PM
Also, I am like, 99.9% sure that if anybody tried to bring up CAF on police reform on RPG.net, they would immediately be at best chided for steering the conversation away from their subject of worship, minority victimization. Or heck, how a more widespread use the 2nd amendment can help take the burden off police, which I think is part of what SHARK just posted. Most direct crimes that fail, and many never attempted, are stopped with a gun, either its use or just its presence.
Just find a case where CAF was used by the police against a minority and talk about that minorities right to due process were violated by the police who used the ill-gotten gains to fund something extremely anti-woke.

Sometimes the best use for trolls is to convince them your enemy is their enemy.

Fair point. Though I guess the second amendment might still be a hard sell. Opposition to it is almost also innate left wing doctrine these days. "But [insert recent mass shooting here]!" Nevermind that mass shootings constitute less than 1% of gun homicides and less of overall homicides. Or that rifles, never mind assault rifles, were used in only roughly a quarter.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 24, 2022, 07:44:43 PM
*I* want to bring in Antifa? Oh Pat, you've gotten lost mate. Follow the conversation. Where is it you think we started my man?

The point all along has been about comparing Antifa violence to Jan 6 violence and people claiming Jan 6 was non-violent, with me saying no they were in fact violent.  Sicknick was just one in many many points I made to demonstrate they were also violent on Jan 6. I've proven it was violent and rather than talk to that point you want to focus on trying to play gotcha without ever speaking to the issue we're talking about. You got so far from the point that you now think I am the one bringing Antifa to the conversation. Fuck dude, there is a forest around you. Stop beating your head on that tree. Not me who brought Antifa to this conversation I am just responding to what others said. Or did you just forget what the heck we've been talking about?

Tell me Pat, do you agree with what was said, that on Jan 6 everyone in the capital was just "invited" in there by police, they were simply trespassing and wandering the halls, and that they were non-violent? Do you or do you not agree with that statement. Don't be a fucking politician about it, don't ask me to define what "is" is, just answer the simple question as to whether you think that is an accurate assessment of what happened or not.

Because if you don't agree with that statement, I want you to hold the people accountable for saying that at least as much as you have a bug up your ass about Sicknick which was never my point to begin with but that statement WAS the point those guys were making.
Okay, you fucking liar. Where did anyone say this was nonviolent?

Oh wait, that was me!
Except there was context, which you can't strip out without being a complete fucking liar. I pointed out that one side of the building was completely nonviolent. They were invited in. They were respectful. And it's absolutely appalling those people are being treated as terrorists. It's a complete travesty, and it's a sign of the sickness of our federal institutions and how far they've drifted from their often but falsely claimed role as public servants.

And on the other side of the the building, I said it got violent. But not a single protestor was carrying a gun. The FBI admitted there was no organized plan to do anything. It therefore wasn't an insurrection. That's another lie, and it's equally appalling. Because we've just gone through dozens of worse riots, some in the summer of 2020 in response to a completely fictitious narrative, some at supreme court confirmation hearings, some at presidential inaugurations, some at the homes of supreme court justices, and one that even attacked the White House. These were all far worse, because they directly threatened legislators, justices, and chief executives, committed arson, and killed people. Yet the people involved mostly got a slap on the hand.

Which in general, I wouldn't have much of a problem with. I think it's a sign of a functioning democracy that protests are largely tolerated, even when they get violent. Yes, people get arrested. But the charges should usually be minor, and the sentences typically probation. Even property damage or inter-personal violence shouldn't be treated that severely, because this idea that all protests are going to be peaceful is nonsense. Reserve the serious charges for things like bombings, killings, or arson.

But what we're seeing here is the weaponization of Congress, the FBI, and the Department of Justice against the opposition political party. I despise that political party almost as much as I despise you, but hey if I stay silent then next they'll come for X, then Y, and eventually me.

Liar.

Liar.

You miserable piece of shit liar.

And if you ask me one more of your little staged lying questions and demand an answer, I'm going totally scorched earth on your miserable piece of shit ass.

Ok Pat, thank you for conclusively proving you did not, in fact, follow the conversation. No wonder you thought I had brought Antifa to the conversation when I had not. You apparently jumped into the middle of it and didn't even realize what people had said or why they had said it.

Which, for the record, is no big deal. Happens to us all. But, maybe don't go off the rails in anger at someone when they've just mentioned it seemed like you didn't read the beginning and go check next time before replying?

No buddy, my comment was not directed to you. No, I did not take your comments out of context. Yes, someone did in fact say they were non-violent on Jan 6 and no, that person was not you. In fact you didn't even comment on the topic until well after this was said:

" with protestors who were let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one.  "

For more context, he was making a comparison to Antifa violence when he said that. Which is why I was confused earlier when you thought I had brought Antifa to the conversation.

That's the comment which started this. It was from 3cat, not you. That's the topic we've been debating ever since. One other person (also not you) seemed to agree with 3cats take on that. This was quite a while ago. Many pages ago now, and we've been debating that issue a while, sprinkled with some other RPGnet stuff in between responses. But yeah, someone here absolutely was describing the Jan 6 rioters (again not to be confused with protestors) as "harming no one" and just wandering about the capital building after being "let in". It's why I eventually posted that video of police getting their asses kicked and retreating and calling for help as rioters broke through their barriers and attacked.
Don't project your own failure to follow the conversation onto others, you smarmy piece of shit. You replied to my posts, and made a statement that applied to a previous post of mine. I responded to that, rather than bringing anyone else into the vile pile of sewage and lies you were spewing. That in no way suggests that I was unfamiliar with other posts, and the only way you can draw that conclusion is just to make shit up. Which you do, because you're disingenuously attempting to avoid addressing the topic.

Speaking of you lying, you did bring up Antifa. You raised it in reply to one my posts. And then you lied about bringing it up, and now you're lying about it again.

When you told me that I was bringing Antifa into the conversation and I explained no I had not someone else had (which they had), that was me telling you that you seemed confused about the responses. And you're doubling down, even though you just fucking said that nobody had claimed the rioters were non-violent when you've just seen conclusive proof you were wrong on that.

Pat, it's OK that you jumped in the middle of a conversation. It's also normal for me to assume you've read what's come before and understood what you were commenting on. But once you see for sure that you were wrong and someone had in fact described them as non-violent, it falls on you to figure that shit out and apologize for the mistake. Not double down and get defensive and act like I was lying when you now realize you really were wrong in saying that.

Be an adult. Just say whoops you messed up and move on. Don't be that guy who can't admit he messed up.
And you continue to lie.

You brought up Antifa, in a post where you quoted 3 nested replies. Not a single one mentioned Antifa. You brought it up on your own. I questioned whether you wanted to go there, because it was a terrible analogy which would thoroughly undermine your argument, but like the dishonest scumbag you are, you neither addressed the argument nor my criticism. Instead, you fabricated this entire web of suppositions, and dishonestly claimed I believe and said all kinds of things I never did.

Be an adult. Admit you're completely fucking wrong and a terrible human being for trying to project your own faults onto others.

Pat, probably a dozen of us at that point had brought up Antifa. IT WAS THE TOPIC YOU WERE IN THE MIDST OF. You still apparently won't go back and look at that, even though it's all right there for you to see. I assumed you knew what conversation you were in. It's fair for me to assume you know what conversation you jumped into. If you don't, inform yourself. It's not on me to inform you that you might have missed something (though I did try to do that).
Again, what does that have to do with anything?

I wasn't responding to them. I was responding to your post. I was saying "do you really want to go there", because, as I pointed out, it would demolish your own argument. I wasn't responding to them, I wasn't making any universal statements about the thread. I was giving you an out, because unlike you, I'm not a vile excuse for a human being.

Look, you've always been terrible at arguing, and ultimately your two methods are folding and running away, or doing what you're doing now, which is acting like you can't even follow a basic conversation.

Why not just be honest? Drop the pretense of being stupid, and admit you're a bad person who can't argue, so you make these futile and feeble attempts at deflection and projection.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on June 24, 2022, 07:47:16 PM
The Iron Law of Woke Projection
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 24, 2022, 08:02:27 PM
Also, I am like, 99.9% sure that if anybody tried to bring up CAF on police reform on RPG.net, they would immediately be at best chided for steering the conversation away from their subject of worship, minority victimization. Or heck, how a more widespread use the 2nd amendment can help take the burden off police, which I think is part of what SHARK just posted. Most direct crimes that fail, and many never attempted, are stopped with a gun, either its use or just its presence.
Just find a case where CAF was used by the police against a minority and talk about that minorities right to due process were violated by the police who used the ill-gotten gains to fund something extremely anti-woke.

Sometimes the best use for trolls is to convince them your enemy is their enemy.

Fair point. Though I guess the second amendment might still be a hard sell. Opposition to it is almost also innate left wing doctrine these days. "But [insert recent mass shooting here]!" Nevermind that mass shootings constitute less than 1% of gun homicides and less of overall homicides. Or that rifles, never mind assault rifles, were used in only roughly a quarter.
The left wing isn't anti-second amendment.

"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary"

That's Karl Marx. Real leftists oppose public disarmament. You can't call the gun grabbers liberals, either, because the Founding Fathers were liberals, and they wrote the 2A. You can't even say they're progressives, because Teddy Roosevelt wasn't exactly opposed to guns.

The group that oppose guns are basically the milquetoast American futurists in the social science sense who adopted socialist-inspired ideas from Europe about centralized planning and control in the early decades of the 20th century, and later formed FDR's brain trust. They're technocrats and college grads educated beyond their native intelligence who considered themselves to be naturally superior to the masses, who they believed just needed their guidance and control, in order to form a more perfect society.

Yes, another term for that kind of person is "stupid idiot". Or "insufferably arrogant". Under the delusion that other people are sheeple or automata who can be precisely commanded, they cause immense amounts of damage. Their heirs in later decades shared all the same traits, but the majority are coffee table theorists in suburbia, unaware just how clueless and divorced from reality their suggestions really are. This group of meddling monsters has become increasing cozy, living soft and easy lives, and thus, while completely fine with violence directed at the dirty masses of deplorables, are utterly horrified at the idea of those masses being able to exert violence in any way, even in defense of themselves, or defense of the republic, or to hunt and eat (even if they're aware that nature involves animals killing each other, they think it's icky and prefer to live in a fantasy world).

Somewhere along the way, someone started calling these people "liberals", which is a horrible perversion of the term, because real literals are almost their antithesis. And now they're often called "progressives", which is fairer but still not accurate. Woke is okay, but it's a new term for a new phenomenon, and can't really be stretched to include their full history from the era of the brain trust to their current mad frenzy of racism and hate.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 24, 2022, 08:10:13 PM
Also, I am like, 99.9% sure that if anybody tried to bring up CAF on police reform on RPG.net, they would immediately be at best chided for steering the conversation away from their subject of worship, minority victimization. Or heck, how a more widespread use the 2nd amendment can help take the burden off police, which I think is part of what SHARK just posted. Most direct crimes that fail, and many never attempted, are stopped with a gun, either its use or just its presence.
Just find a case where CAF was used by the police against a minority and talk about that minorities right to due process were violated by the police who used the ill-gotten gains to fund something extremely anti-woke.

Sometimes the best use for trolls is to convince them your enemy is their enemy.

Fair point. Though I guess the second amendment might still be a hard sell. Opposition to it is almost also innate left wing doctrine these days. "But [insert recent mass shooting here]!" Nevermind that mass shootings constitute less than 1% of gun homicides and less of overall homicides. Or that rifles, never mind assault rifles, were used in only roughly a quarter.
The left wing isn't anti-second amendment.

"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary"

That's Karl Marx. Real leftists oppose public disarmament. You can't call the gun grabbers liberals, either, because the Founding Fathers were liberals, and they wrote the 2A. You can't even say they're progressives, because Teddy Roosevelt wasn't exactly opposed to guns.

The group that oppose guns are basically the milquetoast American futurists in the social science sense who adopted socialist-inspired ideas from Europe about centralized planning and control in the early decades of the 20th century, and later formed FDR's brain trust. They're technocrats and college grads educated beyond their native intelligence who considered themselves to be naturally superior to the masses, who they believed just needed their guidance and control, in order to form a more perfect society.

Yes, another term for that kind of person is "stupid idiot". Or "insufferably arrogant". Under the delusion that other people are sheeple or automata who can be precisely commanded, they cause immense amounts of damage. Their heirs in later decades shared all the same traits, but the majority are coffee table theorists in suburbia, unaware just how clueless and divorced from reality their suggestions really are. This group of meddling monsters has become increasing cozy, living soft and easy lives, and thus, while completely fine with violence directed at the dirty masses of deplorables, are utterly horrified at the idea of those masses being able to exert violence in any way, even in defense of themselves, or defense of the republic, or to hunt and eat (even if they're aware that nature involves animals killing each other, they think it's icky and prefer to live in a fantasy world).

Somewhere along the way, someone started calling these people "liberals", which is a horrible perversion of the term, because real literals are almost their antithesis. And now they're often called "progressives", which is fairer but still not accurate. Woke is okay, but it's a new term for a new phenomenon, and can't really be stretched to include their full history from the era of the brain trust to their current mad frenzy of racism and hate.

Okay, so more like the woke movement and the new American left, than leftists historically or internationally, then?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 24, 2022, 08:17:13 PM
Okay, so more like the woke movement and the new American left, than leftists historically or internationally, then?
Yes, fundamentally it was a long way to say "the US has badly mangled the word 'liberal'". :)

I think terminology matters, but this area's such a mess that there really aren't any good options except to periodically say "right now, I'm using this word this way."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 24, 2022, 08:26:52 PM
What is the international left like, anyway? I mean, I know some authoritarian countries that claim to be descended from communism, and they probably wouldn't want to give their citizens power by arming them. But IDK if that's actually the international political left per se. I know this is mostly a question of definitions, but what is the general consensus as to the policy aims of the left on the global stage? Are we talking Marxism? Democratic socialism but with guns? Something else? Sounds from what you said about the history that maybe centralized planning and control with a tendency towards socialism are part of it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 24, 2022, 08:47:28 PM
*I* want to bring in Antifa? Oh Pat, you've gotten lost mate. Follow the conversation. Where is it you think we started my man?

The point all along has been about comparing Antifa violence to Jan 6 violence and people claiming Jan 6 was non-violent, with me saying no they were in fact violent.  Sicknick was just one in many many points I made to demonstrate they were also violent on Jan 6. I've proven it was violent and rather than talk to that point you want to focus on trying to play gotcha without ever speaking to the issue we're talking about. You got so far from the point that you now think I am the one bringing Antifa to the conversation. Fuck dude, there is a forest around you. Stop beating your head on that tree. Not me who brought Antifa to this conversation I am just responding to what others said. Or did you just forget what the heck we've been talking about?

Tell me Pat, do you agree with what was said, that on Jan 6 everyone in the capital was just "invited" in there by police, they were simply trespassing and wandering the halls, and that they were non-violent? Do you or do you not agree with that statement. Don't be a fucking politician about it, don't ask me to define what "is" is, just answer the simple question as to whether you think that is an accurate assessment of what happened or not.

Because if you don't agree with that statement, I want you to hold the people accountable for saying that at least as much as you have a bug up your ass about Sicknick which was never my point to begin with but that statement WAS the point those guys were making.
Okay, you fucking liar. Where did anyone say this was nonviolent?

Oh wait, that was me!
Except there was context, which you can't strip out without being a complete fucking liar. I pointed out that one side of the building was completely nonviolent. They were invited in. They were respectful. And it's absolutely appalling those people are being treated as terrorists. It's a complete travesty, and it's a sign of the sickness of our federal institutions and how far they've drifted from their often but falsely claimed role as public servants.

And on the other side of the the building, I said it got violent. But not a single protestor was carrying a gun. The FBI admitted there was no organized plan to do anything. It therefore wasn't an insurrection. That's another lie, and it's equally appalling. Because we've just gone through dozens of worse riots, some in the summer of 2020 in response to a completely fictitious narrative, some at supreme court confirmation hearings, some at presidential inaugurations, some at the homes of supreme court justices, and one that even attacked the White House. These were all far worse, because they directly threatened legislators, justices, and chief executives, committed arson, and killed people. Yet the people involved mostly got a slap on the hand.

Which in general, I wouldn't have much of a problem with. I think it's a sign of a functioning democracy that protests are largely tolerated, even when they get violent. Yes, people get arrested. But the charges should usually be minor, and the sentences typically probation. Even property damage or inter-personal violence shouldn't be treated that severely, because this idea that all protests are going to be peaceful is nonsense. Reserve the serious charges for things like bombings, killings, or arson.

But what we're seeing here is the weaponization of Congress, the FBI, and the Department of Justice against the opposition political party. I despise that political party almost as much as I despise you, but hey if I stay silent then next they'll come for X, then Y, and eventually me.

Liar.

Liar.

You miserable piece of shit liar.

And if you ask me one more of your little staged lying questions and demand an answer, I'm going totally scorched earth on your miserable piece of shit ass.

Ok Pat, thank you for conclusively proving you did not, in fact, follow the conversation. No wonder you thought I had brought Antifa to the conversation when I had not. You apparently jumped into the middle of it and didn't even realize what people had said or why they had said it.

Which, for the record, is no big deal. Happens to us all. But, maybe don't go off the rails in anger at someone when they've just mentioned it seemed like you didn't read the beginning and go check next time before replying?

No buddy, my comment was not directed to you. No, I did not take your comments out of context. Yes, someone did in fact say they were non-violent on Jan 6 and no, that person was not you. In fact you didn't even comment on the topic until well after this was said:

" with protestors who were let into a public building, wandered about, and harmed no one.  "

For more context, he was making a comparison to Antifa violence when he said that. Which is why I was confused earlier when you thought I had brought Antifa to the conversation.

That's the comment which started this. It was from 3cat, not you. That's the topic we've been debating ever since. One other person (also not you) seemed to agree with 3cats take on that. This was quite a while ago. Many pages ago now, and we've been debating that issue a while, sprinkled with some other RPGnet stuff in between responses. But yeah, someone here absolutely was describing the Jan 6 rioters (again not to be confused with protestors) as "harming no one" and just wandering about the capital building after being "let in". It's why I eventually posted that video of police getting their asses kicked and retreating and calling for help as rioters broke through their barriers and attacked.
Don't project your own failure to follow the conversation onto others, you smarmy piece of shit. You replied to my posts, and made a statement that applied to a previous post of mine. I responded to that, rather than bringing anyone else into the vile pile of sewage and lies you were spewing. That in no way suggests that I was unfamiliar with other posts, and the only way you can draw that conclusion is just to make shit up. Which you do, because you're disingenuously attempting to avoid addressing the topic.

Speaking of you lying, you did bring up Antifa. You raised it in reply to one my posts. And then you lied about bringing it up, and now you're lying about it again.

When you told me that I was bringing Antifa into the conversation and I explained no I had not someone else had (which they had), that was me telling you that you seemed confused about the responses. And you're doubling down, even though you just fucking said that nobody had claimed the rioters were non-violent when you've just seen conclusive proof you were wrong on that.

Pat, it's OK that you jumped in the middle of a conversation. It's also normal for me to assume you've read what's come before and understood what you were commenting on. But once you see for sure that you were wrong and someone had in fact described them as non-violent, it falls on you to figure that shit out and apologize for the mistake. Not double down and get defensive and act like I was lying when you now realize you really were wrong in saying that.

Be an adult. Just say whoops you messed up and move on. Don't be that guy who can't admit he messed up.
And you continue to lie.

You brought up Antifa, in a post where you quoted 3 nested replies. Not a single one mentioned Antifa. You brought it up on your own. I questioned whether you wanted to go there, because it was a terrible analogy which would thoroughly undermine your argument, but like the dishonest scumbag you are, you neither addressed the argument nor my criticism. Instead, you fabricated this entire web of suppositions, and dishonestly claimed I believe and said all kinds of things I never did.

Be an adult. Admit you're completely fucking wrong and a terrible human being for trying to project your own faults onto others.

Pat, probably a dozen of us at that point had brought up Antifa. IT WAS THE TOPIC YOU WERE IN THE MIDST OF. You still apparently won't go back and look at that, even though it's all right there for you to see. I assumed you knew what conversation you were in. It's fair for me to assume you know what conversation you jumped into. If you don't, inform yourself. It's not on me to inform you that you might have missed something (though I did try to do that).
Again, what does that have to do with anything?

I wasn't responding to them. I was responding to your post.

Which WAS RESPONDING TO THEM. And THEY had raised Antifa. But you seemed completely oblivious to that.

You called me a liar. So far in this conversation I caught you outright lying or just horribly mistaken about what people had said in this conversation. YOU are the one who claimed nobody said the Jan 6 rioters were peaceful. That was you either lying, or wrong. But you won't address that at all and you keep deflecting from it. You are sure to do it again in response to this. Which tells me you were probably lying because damn dude, it would have been so easy to just say you were wrong but continuing to deflect sure makes it seem like you knew that's what was said and were just lying.

And as usual, you go on the offense when you're caught lying. A very Trumpian response.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 24, 2022, 09:14:14 PM
Also, I am like, 99.9% sure that if anybody tried to bring up CAF on police reform on RPG.net, they would immediately be at best chided for steering the conversation away from their subject of worship, minority victimization. Or heck, how a more widespread use the 2nd amendment can help take the burden off police, which I think is part of what SHARK just posted. Most direct crimes that fail, and many never attempted, are stopped with a gun, either its use or just its presence.
Just find a case where CAF was used by the police against a minority and talk about that minorities right to due process were violated by the police who used the ill-gotten gains to fund something extremely anti-woke.

Sometimes the best use for trolls is to convince them your enemy is their enemy.

Fair point. Though I guess the second amendment might still be a hard sell. Opposition to it is almost also innate left wing doctrine these days. "But [insert recent mass shooting here]!" Nevermind that mass shootings constitute less than 1% of gun homicides and less of overall homicides. Or that rifles, never mind assault rifles, were used in only roughly a quarter.
The left wing isn't anti-second amendment.

"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary"

That's Karl Marx. Real leftists oppose public disarmament. You can't call the gun grabbers liberals, either, because the Founding Fathers were liberals, and they wrote the 2A. You can't even say they're progressives, because Teddy Roosevelt wasn't exactly opposed to guns.

The group that oppose guns are basically the milquetoast American futurists in the social science sense who adopted socialist-inspired ideas from Europe about centralized planning and control in the early decades of the 20th century, and later formed FDR's brain trust. They're technocrats and college grads educated beyond their native intelligence who considered themselves to be naturally superior to the masses, who they believed just needed their guidance and control, in order to form a more perfect society.

Yes, another term for that kind of person is "stupid idiot". Or "insufferably arrogant". Under the delusion that other people are sheeple or automata who can be precisely commanded, they cause immense amounts of damage. Their heirs in later decades shared all the same traits, but the majority are coffee table theorists in suburbia, unaware just how clueless and divorced from reality their suggestions really are. This group of meddling monsters has become increasing cozy, living soft and easy lives, and thus, while completely fine with violence directed at the dirty masses of deplorables, are utterly horrified at the idea of those masses being able to exert violence in any way, even in defense of themselves, or defense of the republic, or to hunt and eat (even if they're aware that nature involves animals killing each other, they think it's icky and prefer to live in a fantasy world).

Somewhere along the way, someone started calling these people "liberals", which is a horrible perversion of the term, because real literals are almost their antithesis. And now they're often called "progressives", which is fairer but still not accurate. Woke is okay, but it's a new term for a new phenomenon, and can't really be stretched to include their full history from the era of the brain trust to their current mad frenzy of racism and hate.

Okay, so more like the woke movement and the new American left, than leftists historically or internationally, then?

Not all socialists are marxists, of those who are plenty are pro disarming the people. Then you have the other types of socialists who incidently are also pro dissarming the people. You can't cite ONE quote from Marx and think that disproves what we can see with our own eyes. But yes, there are SOME exceptions here and there, at least until they are in power, then all bets are off.

Define "Left", traditionally it meant Liberal in certain parts of the world but who was the protagonists of the Terror in France? The Left.

Now lets say we agree that Liberals ARE the left... So what about ALL the types of socialists? They aren't the Right so what are they?

In a sane world Liberals would be the center, with the Right being the Conservatives and the Left being the Progressives... But that still leaves out all the socialist types, so what then?

Sadly in the US (and in the world's zeitgeist because of that) Liberal means the Left, and the Left means socialists, progressives and such, who ALL just happen to be authoritarian fucks (I know enough "libertarian-Left Wing" to include them there too). The Religious zealots of the right have lost all power and nobody listens to them, but you have mildly conservative types AND right wing libertarians (the only type of libertarianism that's not an axiomatic oxymoron) and no center.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 24, 2022, 11:01:56 PM
Which WAS RESPONDING TO THEM. And THEY had raised Antifa. But you seemed completely oblivious to that.

You called me a liar. So far in this conversation I caught you outright lying or just horribly mistaken about what people had said in this conversation. YOU are the one who claimed nobody said the Jan 6 rioters were peaceful. That was you either lying, or wrong. But you won't address that at all and you keep deflecting from it. You are sure to do it again in response to this. Which tells me you were probably lying because damn dude, it would have been so easy to just say you were wrong but continuing to deflect sure makes it seem like you knew that's what was said and were just lying.

And as usual, you go on the offense when you're caught lying. A very Trumpian response.
You are a liar. All you're doing it lying. All this post of yours is is a collection of lies.

I pointed out that bringing up Antifa was a terrible move on your part. The rest of this is just your delusion.

I said who said it was nonviolent? Then I answered my own question -- me. The rest of this is just you making up shit I didn't say. You completely ignored what I did say, because you'd have to admit you were wrong.

I may be the only person on this board who regularly admits when they're wrong. Something you've never done. So that's more projecting your own flaws on other people.

Like I said, you're very bad at arguing. And when you're caught at it, you either slip away like a slimy little scumbag, or move into projection mode, accusing everyone else of doing what you're doing. This is why you're such a terrible person.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Effete on June 24, 2022, 11:40:21 PM
Okay, so more like the woke movement and the new American left, than leftists historically or internationally, then?
Yes, fundamentally it was a long way to say "the US has badly mangled the word 'liberal'". :)

I think terminology matters, but this area's such a mess that there really aren't any good options except to periodically say "right now, I'm using this word this way."

The process of perverting language and definitions has been around for a long time. It's always been a tool of authoritarians, who wish for nothing more than controlling the narrative, rather than engaging in any type of discourse or debate. I'm sure the use of "liberal" for these early, FDR-era technocrats was a purposeful act, designed to obfuscate and confuse.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Effete on June 25, 2022, 12:05:37 AM

Not all socialists are marxists, of those who are plenty are pro disarming the people. Then you have the other types of socialists who incidently are also pro dissarming the people. You can't cite ONE quote from Marx and think that disproves what we can see with our own eyes. But yes, there are SOME exceptions here and there, at least until they are in power, then all bets are off.

Define "Left", traditionally it meant Liberal in certain parts of the world but who was the protagonists of the Terror in France? The Left.

Now lets say we agree that Liberals ARE the left... So what about ALL the types of socialists? They aren't the Right so what are they?

In a sane world Liberals would be the center, with the Right being the Conservatives and the Left being the Progressives... But that still leaves out all the socialist types, so what then?

Sadly in the US (and in the world's zeitgeist because of that) Liberal means the Left, and the Left means socialists, progressives and such, who ALL just happen to be authoritarian fucks (I know enough "libertarian-Left Wing" to include them there too). The Religious zealots of the right have lost all power and nobody listens to them, but you have mildly conservative types AND right wing libertarians (the only type of libertarianism that's not an axiomatic oxymoron) and no center.

I always found it more helpful to define "Left" and "Right" in terms of economics.

Do you want central planning with a heavily regulated industry? You're Left.
Do you want laissez faire open markets and little to no regulation? You're Right.
Do you want something in the middle? You're Center.

Political labels are largely meaningless since almost no one fits squarely into a box. It's infinitely more helpful to just ask, "What do you believe?" and have a conversation from there. Otherwise, you have people calling each "libtard" or "trumptard" and neither side wants to back down because they both have made assumptions about the other.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 25, 2022, 01:54:38 AM
Annually there's like one fatal police shooting per every 800 cops or something crazy low like that. https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ (Divide each year by 800,000 US cops.) Likewise, while black people are 2.9 times more likely to be fatally shot according to that site, they also have a disproportionate representation in the violent crime rate almost as high. https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/revcoa18.pdf

I'm not saying that there are no racist cops, or that there isn't some degree of such activity in play with the numbers, but they were much more reasonable numbers than I had been led to believe. For violence, rather than outright fatal shootings, the numbers are admittedly a little less balanced, even with violence and likelihood of the recipient of said effects being armed factored in.
Failed to include something showing higher levels of police violence towards equally resisting blacks (and hispanics, apparently). https://www.nber.org/papers/w22399?utm_campaign=ntw&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ntw

Though in police stops they seem about equally likely to be hurt or whatever and they get stopped more often. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/25/study-finds-blacks-arent-more-likely-to-get-hurt-during-police-stops/

So IDK.

Yeah, I find it hard to tell as well. Statistics on policing are very difficult to get truly controlled comparisons - and there are plenty of people on both sides who give mistaken or false impressions. It's very difficult to either prove or disprove racial bias in the field. You noted disproportionate representation in violent crime (i.e. black people tend to be more violent), but that itself is a function of policing. The U.S. legal system gives a wide range of latitude to police and prosecutors about what crimes get charged for given events. The same behavior could be let off with a warning, or they could throw the book at the offender.

From my observation, there is often obvious class bias in policing. A millionaire whose kid goes missing will get lots of attention from officers, while a family in poverty has to wait in line. Racial bias is less visible to me personally, but I know people who spoke of their experience believably.

Further, it's possible for there to be plenty of variety. Different police will have different biases, so local statistics might not match national statistics.

So, sorry to dig this up a while after it was posted, but your reply did eventually get me thinking. I feel like if there is class bias in police attentions, then this would one might think potentially lead to higher violence within poorer areas as the poor receive less protection. This matches up decently with the poor and not the rich most often being the victims of burglary. It also matches up with the poor being able to successfully commit more crimes with poor victims, and with my supposition that it is because blacks are poor and come from difficult backgrounds more often that they are most often hailed as both the victims and perpetrators of crime. (I did have a reason, I just didn’t give it.) Admittedly, past discriminations have a hand in ensuring that this is the case. Likewise,  as communities that feel marginalized and do not trust police cooperation falls, as crime rates rise. So current mistrust is potentially damaging black communities, especially when the high rates of crime victimization from those of the same race and incarceration are factored in.

Likewise, regarding rates of crime and police bias, may want to take a look at this, for a place and time that I feel rationally should have shown such bias, if it were a robust statistical trend: https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/offender-race-and-case-outcomes-do-crime-seriousness-and-strength.

Also, the disparity in killings changes on the basis of whether folks are armed to come closer together. Killings of racial groups for armed and unarmed civilians respectively, when compared, show that Hispanic victims more than white victims (though I guess it can’t be said as easily who is and isn’t worthy of being shot, so maybe neither should intrinsically be called that) are likely to be violently armed (where you would expect the opposite if proportionally use of force were more unjustified for them). Likewise violence or intent to harm was more often established and accepted in court of law for African Americans, of which roughly 22 are shot annually unarmed.

I would expect some racism, and hence some degree of disparity even with all factored in, though I must admit I have no proof of it factoring in now. But maybe that’s because the average cop, unlike the racist bad apples we know exist, actually is more careful about shooting blacks than whites, all things considered.

Which bleeds into my next point, jumping off of how you noted some localities could have more racist cops masked by the national average. hands up don’t shoot is too broad in its assignment of blame, and does not seem to have support statistically on average across the national level. In which case, local protests may be justified in such cases as discrimination is legitimately proven, but only within a locality. And with only 1,000 or so shootings in general to go around, fewer of which are racial, and many of which if cops on average are not super racist will be legally no less justified than any other shooting, I have to disbelieve protests targeted at most any non-specific shooting in most localities. And localities without patterns of bad shootings should not be protesting shootings specifically. And even in such cases as a specific shooting is unjustified legally, it should be a local reform affair if and only if the officer is not brought to justice and is allowed to continue their career or there is certain reason to believe a like shooting will be preventably done again, and reform doesn’t hurt the community more through the likely uptick in crime should police cooperation decrease than what is gained for the minorities potentially targeted.

I support body cams because they promote trust and allow an officer to document what actually happened in a situation. I support promoting collaboration with local communities of low income status, which will also incidentally but not in a discriminatory manner benefit people of color, I feel. I support accountability on due process and the like. I support investing in crime prevention and police presence in high crime areas, which also I feel benefits minority demographics incidentally. I support officer training, and resources for officers to collaborate with when dealing with a mental health crisis event in the community or one of the many other tasks officers wind up randomly having to perform, oftentimes despite having limited training for that.  I do not support defunding the police, because as noted these populations and populations in general are more affected by crime than police killings. And I do not believe the statistics support hands up don’t shoot within the contexts I enumerated earlier. Police violence more generally is murkier, but based on what you said about localities and averages, I feel like reform would need to take place at a local level of accountability, and often on a case by case basis.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on June 25, 2022, 05:12:31 AM
I'm still wondering what happened to that asshole Tanka.  Anybody know?  I have some theories, but none are confirmed:

1.  Choked to death on a cock
2.  Died of ruptured colon; lubricated own dice tower and then sat on it
3.  TDS-induced stroke
4.  Not dead, but fired from RPG.net for sexual harassment of women (typical behavior for male feminists)
Dude, quit stalking your ex.

HEY EVERYBODY -- I THINK I FOUND TANKA!!!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 25, 2022, 06:05:54 AM
Polite question here, who is this tanka person?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on June 25, 2022, 08:22:48 AM
Polite question here, who is this tanka person?
Tanka ?was? a moderator who was notorious for using his Red Text Shield to abuse posters. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 25, 2022, 09:58:58 AM
Thanks.

So you're saying he was a moderator on TBP.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on June 25, 2022, 11:36:23 AM
Okay, so more like the woke movement and the new American left, than leftists historically or internationally, then?
Yes, fundamentally it was a long way to say "the US has badly mangled the word 'liberal'". :)

I think terminology matters, but this area's such a mess that there really aren't any good options except to periodically say "right now, I'm using this word this way."
I think a lot of the confusion comes down to trying to turn a two-axis situation into a single axis model... in rpg terms it would be trying to turn the Alignment grid into a single line.

Left and Right as traditionally understood in America is largely irrelevant to the current political conflict as can be seen by the continual movement of people traditionally understood as "Left" into the camp of the "Deplorables" while the establishment members of the group traditionally understood as "Right" align ever more closely with Democrat allies.

I would contend that the relevant axis to the current political strife is one of Central vs. Local authority. The leadership of both main political parties in the United States seeks ever greater centralization of authority from which they can reap the proceeds of graft and corruption. In a general sense we can call them "Globalists" because their stated goals are to aggregate power to international bodies in the long term... but I think an even better term would be the "Authoritarians."

Opposite this you have people who often get labeled "Nationalist" or "Populist" but could probably be best described as the "Leave-me-the-fuck-alone"-ists, or, for a more intellectual-sounded term; "Subsidiaritist" (for those who don't know; because its the last thing authoritarians want taught in schools; subsidiarity being the proper term for devolving all power to the lowest level that can handle a specific problem and that it is actually immoral for higher levels to intercede in matters that lower levels can handle). These are the Locals in that Central vs. Local authority axis.

What's happening right now is that the Authoritarians are currently pushing hard to consolidate power and those on the Left and Right as we traditionally understand them are falling away into the Subsidaritist camp as the Authoritarians get around to exerting control over things they would rather decide for themselves... and if everyone were able to decide a lot of these things for themselves (or even just at the state or local level for things that extend beyond your individual ability to handle) the entire world would be a better place to live. The Left could go where Left values are encouraged and the Right could go to where Right values are encouraged and could otherwise leave each other alone.

But the Authoritarians have gotten a lot of mileage out of pitting the Left and the Right against each other along with the false solution that only giving power to the Authoritarian faction can give your preferred direction a win in matters that were never even a contest until the Authoritarians made it so... when the proper answer is that these matters never should have required such a centralized solution to begin with.

And the Authoritarians are loathe to give that power up; which is why they now try to pit the Left and Right against each other over the decision by the Court to devolve power out of Federal control and back to the States (who could, in turn, if they chose, allow that choice to instead be made at the city/county level... which honestly is, as immoral as I find abortion to be, where the abortion issue actually belongs... at the level of city/county governance accountable to the people who live in the community where it would be performed or banned).

The biggest hit to the Authoritarians is going to be in a month or two when all the Blue State Leftists realize they still have access to their abortions and that their local governments aren't moving to take them away... which puts the focus of concern right back on inflation, gas/food prices/shortages and the general economic malaise the Authoritarians have foisted upon us in their greed (because printing all that fiat currency to give out "free money" to win votes always comes back in the form of inflation... and given their is literally 5x the amount of money in circulation today as their was in 2020; expect inflation to keep going until everything eventually costs 5x more than it did in 2020... with working-class wages always being the last to catch up; $10/gallon gas and milk, $25/pound meat; meanwhile a one ounce gold coin will buy pretty much exactly the same amount as it would have before the inflation, because its real and not fiat).

The Authoritarians love fiat currency because it lets them steal from the citizenry en masse without endangering themselves. Digital currency where they can adjust the value of your money at their whim is what they're pushing for now. The real Subsidiaritist move is back towards the historical standard of asset-backed currency. As much as some might hate Russia; their move to peg the value of the Ruble to gold has caused its value to climb while the value of the US 100% fiat dollar has crumbled was strategic brilliance.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on June 25, 2022, 12:48:42 PM
Thanks.

So you're saying he was a moderator on TBP.

Tanka was/is bad even by their standards, IMO.  I visit TBP's infractions page sometimes for a laugh, and every time I did it seemed like Tanka was the one who had handed down the most extreme decisions, usually accompanied by a self-righteous tirade against Wrongthink.  So the fact that he's just dropped out of sight is kind of mysterious.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 25, 2022, 03:34:31 PM
Remember that most of the current 'core' of TBP mods are pretty insufferable pricks as well. Wyzard and Dawgstar, for example, I wouldn't cross the street to piss on if they were on fire.

So it's anyone's guess whether Tanka overstepped himself, or if he simply ran afoul of internal politics and was judged insufficiently woke.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 25, 2022, 07:02:27 PM
I looked up this tanka after hearing he was a really bad mod on tbp, I mean how is tbqt possible.

I found this.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wmarshal-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-threadban.889979/

I mean, HOLYFUCKINGSACREDMOTHEROFGOD!!!!

On tbp people get banned for 'attacks' when they just disagree with someone or state a matter of fact that isn't ideologically correct.

So this guy calls shittenhouse (who I consider a murderer who should be meeting Bubba in prison.) an idiot AND GETS A 30 DAY BAN FOR NOT ATTACKING HIM BADLY ENOUGH!!!

I thought that was maybe the worst ban I'd seen there but didn't  remember the mod.

Between the woke left and the Trump right America is being torn apart. They're both fucking insane, toxic and destructive.  We need a radical, extreme moderate movement of the people in the middle to join up and basically crush the extremists on both sides.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on June 25, 2022, 07:48:42 PM
I looked up this tanka after hearing he was a really bad mod on tbp, I mean how is tbqt possible.

I found this.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wmarshal-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-threadban.889979/

I mean, HOLYFUCKINGSACREDMOTHEROFGOD!!!!

On tbp people get banned for 'attacks' when they just disagree with someone or state a matter of fact that isn't ideologically correct.

So this guy calls shittenhouse (who I consider a murderer who should be meeting Bubba in prison.) an idiot AND GETS A 30 DAY BAN FOR NOT ATTACKING HIM BADLY ENOUGH!!!

I thought that was maybe the worst ban I'd seen there but didn't  remember the mod.

Between the woke left and the Trump right America is being torn apart. They're both fucking insane, toxic and destructive.  We need a radical, extreme moderate movement of the people in the middle to join up and basically crush the extremists on both sides.
Extreme moderate movement? Something like the old True Neutral druids?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on June 25, 2022, 08:01:11 PM
Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in defense of liberty is no virtue.

"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on June 25, 2022, 08:08:48 PM
Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in defense of liberty is no virtue.

"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."
:-)
(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/men/2016/03/23/hers-small_trans++qGw_8_YqFn6oOhW46YSWn4vCdM7y5SFWu0uZ-GBQ2Ps.jpg)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on June 25, 2022, 08:22:07 PM
I looked up this tanka after hearing he was a really bad mod on tbp, I mean how is tbqt possible.

I found this.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wmarshal-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-threadban.889979/

I mean, HOLYFUCKINGSACREDMOTHEROFGOD!!!!

On tbp people get banned for 'attacks' when they just disagree with someone or state a matter of fact that isn't ideologically correct.

So this guy calls shittenhouse (who I consider a murderer who should be meeting Bubba in prison.) an idiot AND GETS A 30 DAY BAN FOR NOT ATTACKING HIM BADLY ENOUGH!!!

I thought that was maybe the worst ban I'd seen there but didn't  remember the mod.

Between the woke left and the Trump right America is being torn apart. They're both fucking insane, toxic and destructive.  We need a radical, extreme moderate movement of the people in the middle to join up and basically crush the extremists on both sides.
This dude went suicide by mod on Tanka:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/infraction-for-razor-007-17-permanent-ban.834085/

"Freedom Under Tyranny Always Needs Knowledgeable Allies."

Pretty epic.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 25, 2022, 08:49:39 PM
That was in 2018. How many years did tanka do his modler routine? How many people did he drive away?  Rhetorical,  of course.

Anyone know why and when he was finally dethroned? Has anyone there asked?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on June 25, 2022, 08:50:56 PM
Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in defense of liberty is no virtue.

"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."
So you admit thst, when it comes to extremists, you swallow. No surprise.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on June 25, 2022, 08:54:45 PM
Between the woke left and the Trump right America is being torn apart. They're both fucking insane, toxic and destructive.  We need a radical, extreme moderate movement of the people in the middle to join up and basically crush the extremists on both sides.
I had a much longer post I was going to present, but I decided instead that perhaps it might be more useful if you could perhaps describe what this Moderate platform looks like?

Similarly, just what do you believe the far Left and Trump right actually believe?

I feel that having terms defined here might be extremely beneficial to the discussion as it wouldn’t be useful for me to throw out a reply in relation to what I think you mean, only for it to not actually be what you meant at all.

So, to repeat, could you define what Moderate, Far Left and Trump Right mean to you in terms of policies?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on June 25, 2022, 10:29:33 PM
Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in defense of liberty is no virtue.

"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."
So you admit thst, when it comes to extremists, you swallow. No surprise.
So you admit to being a principle-less, lukewarm, brainless moderate.  Even less surprise
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 26, 2022, 04:31:44 AM
Between the woke left and the Trump right America is being torn apart. They're both fucking insane, toxic and destructive.  We need a radical, extreme moderate movement of the people in the middle to join up and basically crush the extremists on both sides.
I had a much longer post I was going to present, but I decided instead that perhaps it might be more useful if you could perhaps describe what this Moderate platform looks like?

Similarly, just what do you believe the far Left and Trump right actually believe?

I feel that having terms defined here might be extremely beneficial to the discussion as it wouldn’t be useful for me to throw out a reply in relation to what I think you mean, only for it to not actually be what you meant at all.

So, to repeat, could you define what Moderate, Far Left and Trump Right mean to you in terms of policies?

OK since you seem to be able to post reasonably and without just throwing shit, like a certain carcharodon themed user who is nothing but a shitthrower, I will broadly define woke left, Trump right and moderates. These are very broad definitions.

Woke left.  Claims to support freedom and liberty but actualy supports extreme censorship of views that are offensive to the far left standards of offensive speech. Wants to force ''respect and acceptance of all'', except those seen as 'privileged '' by being white males, with a censorship policy enforced by threat of job loss, social ostracism,  denial of access to media,  fines if possible and similar means. Believes you can address  past wrongs against various groups by curtailing the rights of the current members of the group that oppressed and abused them. Ignores the fact huge numbers of white males were and are impoverished, disenfranchised,  exploited and otherwise abused by the elites just as much as minorties and women are. Wants a disasterous and discredited economic model based on radical socialism that is very likey to produce economic disaster.


The Trump right claims to champion' freedumb' and 'libirdy' while advocating fascism when it doesn't get it's way in every election. Claims to adhere to the constitution while subverting it with court packing, gerrymandering,  voter suppression, obstructionism ,etc. Blames 'the left' for crises while obstructing any effort to alleviate them.  Believes in law and order for most people as a tool of oppression and quelling protest while allowing the rich to do as they please. Accuses the left of violence while openly endorsing brutal oppression of protest, assassination of enemy political leaders,  violent actions against any who resist them, etc.  (Trump called on people to use the second amendment if they lost an election while miming firing a rifle) Supports a proven failure of an economic model called supply side economics, I. E.  Trickle down econimics, reaganomics, voodoo economics, etc. A
policy that has been forced on America since 1980 and has driven down wages, wealth, standards of living,  job security,  etc for the majority of Americans while making those Already wealthy far, far richer . This has been proven by 40 years Of experience.

Both extremes ignore science, facts, truth abd even reality when it disagrees with their views. The woke left ignores the fact that while most of the elite and powerful are white males the vast majority of white males are not part of the elite and powerful. They ignore the fact holding  most modern white males somehow accountable for the actions of the elite white males of decades past will engender hostility and is a form of injustice and iniquity in itself that will perpetuate  anger and division. They ignore that a wholly socialist economic model is likely to fail terribly based on existing evidence.

The Trump right ignores the fact  there has been and still is institutional injustice in the system,  they ignore the fact that climate change is real, that most Americans favor many policies that it deems 'socialist' such as affordable healthcare and housing, higher wages for workers, more taxes on the extremely rich, etc. They ignore the fact an unregulated capitalist free market system has caused tremendous harm to most Americans over 40 years and continue to advise and advocate the same failed policies constantly.


Moderates support in general terms equal rights, fairness, justice and opportunity for all but do not support pushing down the percievced advantaged as a way to deal with  wrongs from decades past. It belives in mostly free speech and expression while placing limits on things like open advociaton of murder and violence against targeted groups based on race, gender, ethnicity,  orientation,  etc. They support by and large a blended economic model that incorpares elements of what it generally considered to be capitalism and what is generally considered to be socialism to produce a model that allows free enterprise while preventing massive consolidiation of wealth and therefore power into the hands of very few while  impoverishing and disempowering the vast majority. They believe there are things that should not be left wholly to the 'free market' but subjected to controls meant to keep them accessible to all. Medical care , nutrition, housing, utilities all should be price controlled and regulated as they were in America for decades. Non essential goods should have fewer controls.

Thats a broad summation on the factions as I see them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 26, 2022, 06:09:01 AM
Between the woke left and the Trump right America is being torn apart. They're both fucking insane, toxic and destructive.  We need a radical, extreme moderate movement of the people in the middle to join up and basically crush the extremists on both sides.
I had a much longer post I was going to present, but I decided instead that perhaps it might be more useful if you could perhaps describe what this Moderate platform looks like?

Similarly, just what do you believe the far Left and Trump right actually believe?

I feel that having terms defined here might be extremely beneficial to the discussion as it wouldn’t be useful for me to throw out a reply in relation to what I think you mean, only for it to not actually be what you meant at all.

So, to repeat, could you define what Moderate, Far Left and Trump Right mean to you in terms of policies?

OK since you seem to be able to post reasonably and without just throwing shit, like a certain carchodon themed user who is nothing but a shitthrower, I will broadly define woke left, Trump right and moderates. These are very broad definitions.

Woke left.  Claims to support freedom and liberty but actualy supports extreme censorship of views that are offensive to the far left standards of offensive speech. Wants to force ''respect and acceptance of all'', except those seen as 'privileged '' by being white males, with a censorship policy enforced by threat of job loss, social ostracism,  denial of access to media,  fines if possible and similar means. Believes you can address  past wrongs against various groups by curtailing the rights of the current members of the group that oppressed and abused them. Ignores the fact huge numbers of lwhite males were are impoverished, disenfranchised,  exploited and otherwise abused by the elites just as much as minorties and women are. Wants a disasterous abd discredited economic model based on radical socialism that is very likey to produce economic disaster.


The Trump right claims to champion freedumb and libirdy while advocating fascism when it doesn't get it's way in every election. Claims to adhere to the constitution while subverting it with court packing, gerrymandering,  voter suppression, obstructionism ,etc. Blames 'the left' for crises while obstructing any effort to alleviate them.  Believes in law and order for most people as a tool of oppression and quelling protest while allowing the rich to do as they please. Accuses the left of violence while openly endorsing brutal oppression of protest, assassination of enemy political leaders,  violent actions against any who resist them, etc.  (Trump called on people to use the second amendment if they lost an election while miming firing a rifle) Supports a proven failure of an economic model called supply side economics, I. E.  Trickle down econimics, reaganomics, voodoo economics, etc. A that has been forced on America since 1980 and has driven down wages, wealth, standards of living,  job security,  egc for the majority of Americans while making those Already wealthy far, far richer . This has been proven by 40 years Of experience.

Both extremes ignore science, facts, truth abd even reality when it disagrees with their views. The woke left ignores the fact that while most of the elite and powerful are white males the vast majority of white males are not part of the elite and powerful. They ignore the fact holding  most modern white males somehow accountable for the actions of the elite white males of decades past will engender hostility and is a form of injustice and iniquity in itself that will perpetuate  anger and division. They ignore that a wholly socialist economic model is likely to fail terribly based on existing evidence.

The Trump right ignores the fact  there has been and still is institutional injustice in the system,  they ignore the fact that climate change is real, that most Americans favor many policies that it deems 'socialist' such as affordable healthcare and housing, higher wages for workers, more taxes on the extremely rich, etc. They ignore the fact an unregulated capitalist free market system has caused tremendous harm to most Americans over 40 years and continue to advise and advocate the same failed policies constantly.


Moderates support in general terms equal rights, fairness, justice and opportunity for all but do not support pushing down the percievced advantaged as a way to deal with  wrongs from decades past. It belives in mostly free speech and expression while placing limits on things like open advociaton of murder and violence against targeted groups based on race, gender, ethnicity,  orientation,  etc. They support by and large a blended economic model that incorpares elements of what it generally considered to be capitalism and what is generally considered to be socialism to produce a model that allows free enterprise while preventing massive consolidiation of wealth and therefore power into the hands of very few while  impoverishing and disempowering the vast majority. They believe there are things that should not be left wholly to the 'free market' but subjected to controls meant to keep them accessible to all. Medical care , nutrition, housing, utilities all should be price controlled and regulated as they were in America for decades. Non essential goods should have fewer controls.

Thats a broad summation on the factions as I see them.



Okay, admittedly I’m not Chris, but I can’t seem to get back to sleep at the moment and I still feel like I can try to be polite or at least not a COMPLETE asshat while still giving my honest opinion on this post. Hopefully the more people add their thoughts the more points get considered. As a heads up, I consider myself probably a right wing moderate, though a registered independent, and not really in the way you define right wing here. (Since you outlined your stances, I’ll open myself up for commentary and learning as well, though I may be about to piss a lot of people off, or at least get some depressed head shakes. I’m a Fiscal Conservative, support decentralized power mostly, care pretty deeply about an honest interpretation of the Constitution as it is written rather than oligarchy via judicial fiat and unnecessary legislating from the bench, consider it a way to protect the individual both from outright unjust and unequal government action and delineate what each level of government can and cannot do, more a cosmopolitan in part than just a pure political realist on the international stage, and I do think there are times when intervention economic political or even potentially militarily can be justified both morally and strategically, not a huge fan of raw neoliberalism in trade or a believer in unlimited globalism or global governance that includes authoritarian shitbags and the like, believe we need more than just unilateral action and bilateral alliances though there is a place for both, believe we can help the poor without destroying the free market or undermining America with poverty traps like binary welfare cutoff lines, and that racial and other inequality can be reduced by pro-poor and economic mobility and opportunity policies without discrimination on the basis of race or sex, which should be legally protected against regardless of alleged privilege level, religion, speech, race or sex. I also have a somewhat controversial belief that megacorps and the like should not be able to refuse services solely on the basis of political affiliation, because that way lies oppression and cultural tyranny.)

That said, I mostly agree on your take regarding the woke left.

I feel like the Trump right, if we are to believe the polls, despite more than 20 judicial reviews including the Supreme Court who found they had no credible statistical evidence or the like that the election was genuinely stolen (heck, Biden voters lost some votes to the US postal service, and nobody complains about that. Likewise, though, if you look at things like approval ratings and email release timings relative to the election, as well as messing with things like digital waitlist systems for voters, troll farms, and media including social media influence, there is indeed an argument to be made that Russia helped Trump win a narrow election against Hillary, and I still consider that win both valid and legal regardless.) GENUINELY believes the election was stolen for the most part, and the protesters certainly did. So, while what they did was illegal and I do not morally or factually condone it within context of my own election understanding, it could be more justified within that frame of reference.  Also, less violent in SOME instances than I had previously been given to believe, and IDK if the ones who were invited in by foolish officers should be as harshly prosecuted as they are now even over trespass. I think Trump may not have really believed, though at first I thought he did, and if so I’ll probably be voting for someone else, possibly a third party candidate because individual votes don’t matter so vote your conscience. Parties shouldn’t dictate our political views and moral principles but rather the reverse. Also kinda surprised me that he knew and his lawyers had told him using Pence to overturn the election results was illegal. And that the one who spearheaded the plan to go through with it anyway admitted in private it was bullshit and asked for a pardon. Also, the alternate elector plans Trump tried to get to work were really weird and not at all legal/sensible. Anyway, point being I don’t like Trump’s character, but the right thought and thinks they are saving democracy with their electoral reforms, even as politicians do gerrymandering on both sides, albeit perhaps more noticeably Republicans at times. Likewise, I do not believe making it harder for the poor to vote constitutes racism, only classism. It was the democrats, likewise, who wanted to pack the Supreme Court, because politics is a sordid business more generally. Also, extremists exist on both sides. And while I do not believe in trickle down economics per se, I do acknowledge that cutting corporate taxes can at times make them more likely to headquarter and stay within America, and boost corporate enterprise. (Though I likewise for similar reasons of American production support the global minimum tax to some degree.) Also, there are extremists on both sides as regards to active violence, unjust use of individual force and the like, I am sorry to say, though I am ALSO happy to note that for both sides they are very much a statistical minority. Likewise, the left is I fear getting more authoritarian too, look at what I have to say about that in the COVID thread for instance, and consider some of the tendencies you have yourself noted for the woke left.

I do agree both sides are misinformed, though I do not agree on every single thing you had listed. As one might expect given my stated political preferences. I do believe in having informed voters and governing with statistics and facts in mind where possible.

I think institutionally in legal and corporate terms there is injustice, but mainly in the sense of unequal treatment in law and employment principles towards those deemed more privileged, so probably not the group you’re thinking of. Societally injustice and bias is a mixed bag and goes both ways, and I dislike how some forms of bias and discrimination are deemed okay. I don’t care what the average American thinks is right as regards deciding my own political beliefs, in part because these days I mistrust them, and also because right is right even if nobody believes in it and wrong is wrong even if everyone believes it. Again, I support fixing market failures and economic politic y informed by economics and statistics, and though I don’t always do a great job with understanding the more advanced stuff, I am very skeptical of command economies practically, much less as regards overreach.

Mostly agree with some of the opening stuff in the next segment. I do not believe in hate speech, though incitement which is much more robust and difficult to qualify for legally can to my mind link to hate crimes and be one, conditionally. I do not support socialism or a command economy, and think it makes bad economic and social sense, both theoretically and practically speaking. That said, I do support corporate regulation and taxation specifically targeting market failures and monopolies and the like. I don’t hate the rich, think the 1% doesn’t have the income to sustainably fix all our problems even if paying taxes weren’t effectively optional and an act of patriotism for them, and think that demonizing and alienating the upper middle class solves little. That said I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to say a 3% wealth tax on assets and property to help close the deficit, since if you can’t grow  and invest your wealth maybe it’s more efficient for a smidge of it to go elsewhere, and maybe it might encourage Americans to invest and not have debt that eclipses their wealth and real financial solvency if debt is not factored into the wealth tax. (That said, if Pat or somebody else more knowledgeable on economics has an opinion, feel free to speak up).

I also think that economically you are further left than you think, and perhaps to some degree socially too. That said, the average American these days is pretty polarized, and even if they weren’t political and moral beliefs are held because people believe in them. So I think most everyone sees themselves as a somewhat proactive representative of their beliefs, at least in their own minds and when not subject to censorship. Likewise, I think most people even when not would consider themselves center. Heck, I myself may not be all that close to whatever the “actual” center is, not that it’s easy to numerically quantify exact political coordinates, and even then I’d bet different stances and people could get the “same” positioning. The more polarized you are, the more uniformity in your beliefs relative to people likewise aligned and polarized, I think, maybe. In which case IDK if moderates can ever be a radical united policy front, so much as a way to temper politicians towards the center in general election promises on more controversial points within their potential supporters, which can be bad or good depending on the specific circumstances.

Well, now that I’ve espoused my doctrine, I look forward to everyone working together to challenge it, engage with it, and make me and if I did well perhaps even others more informed, nuanced and coherent.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 26, 2022, 07:13:39 AM
Between the woke left and the Trump right America is being torn apart. They're both fucking insane, toxic and destructive.  We need a radical, extreme moderate movement of the people in the middle to join up and basically crush the extremists on both sides.
I had a much longer post I was going to present, but I decided instead that perhaps it might be more useful if you could perhaps describe what this Moderate platform looks like?

Similarly, just what do you believe the far Left and Trump right actually believe?

I feel that having terms defined here might be extremely beneficial to the discussion as it wouldn’t be useful for me to throw out a reply in relation to what I think you mean, only for it to not actually be what you meant at all.

So, to repeat, could you define what Moderate, Far Left and Trump Right mean to you in terms of policies?

OK since you seem to be able to post reasonably and without just throwing shit, like a certain carcharodon themed user who is nothing but a shitthrower, I will broadly define woke left, Trump right and moderates. These are very broad definitions.

Woke left.  Claims to support freedom and liberty but actualy supports extreme censorship of views that are offensive to the far left standards of offensive speech. Wants to force ''respect and acceptance of all'', except those seen as 'privileged '' by being white males, with a censorship policy enforced by threat of job loss, social ostracism,  denial of access to media,  fines if possible and similar means. Believes you can address  past wrongs against various groups by curtailing the rights of the current members of the group that oppressed and abused them. Ignores the fact huge numbers of white males were and are impoverished, disenfranchised,  exploited and otherwise abused by the elites just as much as minorties and women are. Wants a disasterous and discredited economic model based on radical socialism that is very likey to produce economic disaster.


The Trump right claims to champion' freedumb' and 'libirdy' while advocating fascism when it doesn't get it's way in every election. Claims to adhere to the constitution while subverting it with court packing, gerrymandering,  voter suppression, obstructionism ,etc. Blames 'the left' for crises while obstructing any effort to alleviate them.  Believes in law and order for most people as a tool of oppression and quelling protest while allowing the rich to do as they please. Accuses the left of violence while openly endorsing brutal oppression of protest, assassination of enemy political leaders,  violent actions against any who resist them, etc.  (Trump called on people to use the second amendment if they lost an election while miming firing a rifle) Supports a proven failure of an economic model called supply side economics, I. E.  Trickle down econimics, reaganomics, voodoo economics, etc. A
policy that has been forced on America since 1980 and has driven down wages, wealth, standards of living,  job security,  etc for the majority of Americans while making those Already wealthy far, far richer . This has been proven by 40 years Of experience.

Both extremes ignore science, facts, truth abd even reality when it disagrees with their views. The woke left ignores the fact that while most of the elite and powerful are white males the vast majority of white males are not part of the elite and powerful. They ignore the fact holding  most modern white males somehow accountable for the actions of the elite white males of decades past will engender hostility and is a form of injustice and iniquity in itself that will perpetuate  anger and division. They ignore that a wholly socialist economic model is likely to fail terribly based on existing evidence.

The Trump right ignores the fact  there has been and still is institutional injustice in the system,  they ignore the fact that climate change is real, that most Americans favor many policies that it deems 'socialist' such as affordable healthcare and housing, higher wages for workers, more taxes on the extremely rich, etc. They ignore the fact an unregulated capitalist free market system has caused tremendous harm to most Americans over 40 years and continue to advise and advocate the same failed policies constantly.


Moderates support in general terms equal rights, fairness, justice and opportunity for all but do not support pushing down the percievced advantaged as a way to deal with  wrongs from decades past. It belives in mostly free speech and expression while placing limits on things like open advociaton of murder and violence against targeted groups based on race, gender, ethnicity,  orientation,  etc. They support by and large a blended economic model that incorpares elements of what it generally considered to be capitalism and what is generally considered to be socialism to produce a model that allows free enterprise while preventing massive consolidiation of wealth and therefore power into the hands of very few while  impoverishing and disempowering the vast majority. They believe there are things that should not be left wholly to the 'free market' but subjected to controls meant to keep them accessible to all. Medical care , nutrition, housing, utilities all should be price controlled and regulated as they were in America for decades. Non essential goods should have fewer controls.

Thats a broad summation on the factions as I see them.

Thank you! That was a good laugh! Thank you again!

You are just saying that everyone's views suck except yours, which must come down from mount as if being carried by Moses himself, even though there is a lot of pure bullshit in them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 26, 2022, 07:55:09 AM
Sigh. Jeff I keep hoping a covid virus with your name on it ends up tettibg drawn into that ever open mouth of yours. You do nothing but throw shit into the world and it would be a less awful place if you were removed from it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 26, 2022, 11:16:53 AM
Woke left.  Claims to support freedom and liberty but actualy supports extreme censorship of views that are offensive to the far left standards of offensive speech. Wants to force ''respect and acceptance of all'', except those seen as 'privileged '' by being white males, with a censorship policy enforced by threat of job loss, social ostracism,  denial of access to media,  fines if possible and similar means. Believes you can address  past wrongs against various groups by curtailing the rights of the current members of the group that oppressed and abused them. Ignores the fact huge numbers of white males were and are impoverished, disenfranchised,  exploited and otherwise abused by the elites just as much as minorties and women are. Wants a disasterous and discredited economic model based on radical socialism that is very likey to produce economic disaster.
This is a rational position.

The Trump right claims to champion' freedumb' and 'libirdy' while advocating fascism when it doesn't get it's way in every election. Claims to adhere to the constitution while subverting it with court packing, gerrymandering,  voter suppression, obstructionism ,etc. Blames 'the left' for crises while obstructing any effort to alleviate them.  Believes in law and order for most people as a tool of oppression and quelling protest while allowing the rich to do as they please. Accuses the left of violence while openly endorsing brutal oppression of protest, assassination of enemy political leaders,  violent actions against any who resist them, etc.  (Trump called on people to use the second amendment if they lost an election while miming firing a rifle) Supports a proven failure of an economic model called supply side economics, I. E.  Trickle down econimics, reaganomics, voodoo economics, etc. A
policy that has been forced on America since 1980 and has driven down wages, wealth, standards of living,  job security,  etc for the majority of Americans while making those Already wealthy far, far richer . This has been proven by 40 years Of experience.
This is not.

Okay, admittedly I’m not Chris, but I can’t seem to get back to sleep at the moment and I still feel like I can try to be polite or at least not a COMPLETE asshat while still giving my honest opinion on this post. Hopefully the more people add their thoughts the more points get considered. As a heads up, I consider myself probably a right wing moderate, though a registered independent, and not really in the way you define right wing here. (Since you outlined your stances, I’ll open myself up for commentary and learning as well, though I may be about to piss a lot of people off, or at least get some depressed head shakes. I’m a Fiscal Conservative, support decentralized power mostly, care pretty deeply about an honest interpretation of the Constitution as it is written rather than oligarchy via judicial fiat and unnecessary legislating from the bench, consider it a way to protect the individual both from outright unjust and unequal government action and delineate what each level of government can and cannot do, more a cosmopolitan in part than just a pure political realist on the international stage, and I do think there are times when intervention economic political or even potentially militarily can be justified both morally and strategically, not a huge fan of raw neoliberalism in trade or a believer in unlimited globalism or global governance that includes authoritarian shitbags and the like, believe we need more than just unilateral action and bilateral alliances though there is a place for both, believe we can help the poor without destroying the free market or undermining America with poverty traps like binary welfare cutoff lines, and that racial and other inequality can be reduced by pro-poor and economic mobility and opportunity policies without discrimination on the basis of race or sex, which should be legally protected against regardless of alleged privilege level, religion, speech, race or sex. I also have a somewhat controversial belief that megacorps and the like should not be able to refuse services solely on the basis of political affiliation, because that way lies oppression and cultural tyranny.)
This is a rational position.

I don't agree with either of you on many details, but except for BM's rant about Trump, you both seem to fall within the "can talk to other people without frothing" category. But why are you both posting this in a thread about bad moderation on another forum?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 26, 2022, 11:22:43 AM
Woke left.  Claims to support freedom and liberty but actualy supports extreme censorship of views that are offensive to the far left standards of offensive speech. Wants to force ''respect and acceptance of all'', except those seen as 'privileged '' by being white males, with a censorship policy enforced by threat of job loss, social ostracism,  denial of access to media,  fines if possible and similar means. Believes you can address  past wrongs against various groups by curtailing the rights of the current members of the group that oppressed and abused them. Ignores the fact huge numbers of white males were and are impoverished, disenfranchised,  exploited and otherwise abused by the elites just as much as minorties and women are. Wants a disasterous and discredited economic model based on radical socialism that is very likey to produce economic disaster.
This is a rational position.

The Trump right claims to champion' freedumb' and 'libirdy' while advocating fascism when it doesn't get it's way in every election. Claims to adhere to the constitution while subverting it with court packing, gerrymandering,  voter suppression, obstructionism ,etc. Blames 'the left' for crises while obstructing any effort to alleviate them.  Believes in law and order for most people as a tool of oppression and quelling protest while allowing the rich to do as they please. Accuses the left of violence while openly endorsing brutal oppression of protest, assassination of enemy political leaders,  violent actions against any who resist them, etc.  (Trump called on people to use the second amendment if they lost an election while miming firing a rifle) Supports a proven failure of an economic model called supply side economics, I. E.  Trickle down econimics, reaganomics, voodoo economics, etc. A
policy that has been forced on America since 1980 and has driven down wages, wealth, standards of living,  job security,  etc for the majority of Americans while making those Already wealthy far, far richer . This has been proven by 40 years Of experience.
This is not.

Okay, admittedly I’m not Chris, but I can’t seem to get back to sleep at the moment and I still feel like I can try to be polite or at least not a COMPLETE asshat while still giving my honest opinion on this post. Hopefully the more people add their thoughts the more points get considered. As a heads up, I consider myself probably a right wing moderate, though a registered independent, and not really in the way you define right wing here. (Since you outlined your stances, I’ll open myself up for commentary and learning as well, though I may be about to piss a lot of people off, or at least get some depressed head shakes. I’m a Fiscal Conservative, support decentralized power mostly, care pretty deeply about an honest interpretation of the Constitution as it is written rather than oligarchy via judicial fiat and unnecessary legislating from the bench, consider it a way to protect the individual both from outright unjust and unequal government action and delineate what each level of government can and cannot do, more a cosmopolitan in part than just a pure political realist on the international stage, and I do think there are times when intervention economic political or even potentially militarily can be justified both morally and strategically, not a huge fan of raw neoliberalism in trade or a believer in unlimited globalism or global governance that includes authoritarian shitbags and the like, believe we need more than just unilateral action and bilateral alliances though there is a place for both, believe we can help the poor without destroying the free market or undermining America with poverty traps like binary welfare cutoff lines, and that racial and other inequality can be reduced by pro-poor and economic mobility and opportunity policies without discrimination on the basis of race or sex, which should be legally protected against regardless of alleged privilege level, religion, speech, race or sex. I also have a somewhat controversial belief that megacorps and the like should not be able to refuse services solely on the basis of political affiliation, because that way lies oppression and cultural tyranny.)
This is a rational position.

I don't agree with either of you on many details, but except for BM's rant about Trump, you both seem to fall within the "can talk to other people without frothing" category. But why are you both posting this in a thread about bad moderation on another forum?

Yanno, I originally thought I had an answer to that question. I think maybe Battlemaster was trying to argue for an uprising of moderates to counteract authoritarian rule and woke thought policing on places like RPG.net and American society more broadly. Also, I think this stuff was originally related to definitions like what is the woke left, why do people think the "Trump Right" is "equally as bad" or whatever, and what does that mean for stuff like online debate and the cultural zeitgeist. I went more or less off topic responding to their post and trying to clarify my own stance (for background) first instead of jumping into my thoughts on the above. That said, I think I kinda have a tendency to go off topic sometimes. I also should not have solicited responses to what I had posted without considering the effects on the direction of the thread.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 26, 2022, 11:36:17 AM
To drag things back on topic, I guess, since I sent them careening, I wonder if given what I said about increasing polarization in a given political affiliation potentially leading to more people being able to get behind united fronts and moderates not having that, could moderates ever exercise tyranny like the left does on RPG.net? I guess maybe if they had a much smaller team of moderators to present a united front, but IDK even then. Also, this might then mean that for real political reform, you to some extent need polarization and not just moderates? I dunno, though, cuz I guess maybe "moderates" rather than being lukewarm wafflers could alternatively be organized to have a coherent set of policy stances that they call moderate but that actually are polarized along various political questions to produce a coherent platform. If woke liberals came from a distortion or usurpation of the word and platform historically, maybe one day we could see what today would be termed moderates oppressing those who go against them in speech, assuming nobody fixes corporate censorship, refusal to tolerate real free speech in society and on the net, and the like.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 26, 2022, 12:00:33 PM
That said, I think I kinda have a tendency to go off topic sometimes.
So do I.

Regarding the moderates, or at least those who make up the large and indifferent middle, inflation and gas prices seems to be energizing them. The rest of the culture war seems to have passed over their heads. Some of that is just not caring about issues beyond the kitchen table, but a significant part is the obfuscation of the media, which has bend over backwards to present one extreme as normal ("fiery but mostly peaceful"...), while demonizing comparable or far less extreme behavior on the other side ("insurrection"). This has turned pockets with a certain political bias, like the TBP, into ravenous extremists, because there are no outside checks to the perpetual cycle of outrage against their political opposition.

The media gets a lot of blame for polarization, but I don't think the blame they get is anywhere near enough.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 26, 2022, 12:31:50 PM
Sigh. Jeff I keep hoping a covid virus with your name on it ends up tettibg drawn into that ever open mouth of yours. You do nothing but throw shit into the world and it would be a less awful place if you were removed from it.

*GASP!* I thought that you were a peace loving Bill Maher Sheep, I mean Democrat! I am shocked, yes, shocked and dismayed that you would wish ill will against someone such as myself! I suppose that you are just mostly peaceful, like those riots we had.

Besides, causing people to laugh at you makes this world less awful!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 26, 2022, 12:59:58 PM
Woke left.  Claims to support freedom and liberty but actualy supports extreme censorship of views that are offensive to the far left standards of offensive speech. Wants to force ''respect and acceptance of all'', except those seen as 'privileged '' by being white males, with a censorship policy enforced by threat of job loss, social ostracism,  denial of access to media,  fines if possible and similar means. Believes you can address  past wrongs against various groups by curtailing the rights of the current members of the group that oppressed and abused them. Ignores the fact huge numbers of white males were and are impoverished, disenfranchised,  exploited and otherwise abused by the elites just as much as minorties and women are. Wants a disasterous and discredited economic model based on radical socialism that is very likey to produce economic disaster.
This is a rational position.

The Trump right claims to champion' freedumb' and 'libirdy' while advocating fascism when it doesn't get it's way in every election. Claims to adhere to the constitution while subverting it with court packing, gerrymandering,  voter suppression, obstructionism ,etc. Blames 'the left' for crises while obstructing any effort to alleviate them.  Believes in law and order for most people as a tool of oppression and quelling protest while allowing the rich to do as they please. Accuses the left of violence while openly endorsing brutal oppression of protest, assassination of enemy political leaders,  violent actions against any who resist them, etc.  (Trump called on people to use the second amendment if they lost an election while miming firing a rifle) Supports a proven failure of an economic model called supply side economics, I. E.  Trickle down econimics, reaganomics, voodoo economics, etc. A
policy that has been forced on America since 1980 and has driven down wages, wealth, standards of living,  job security,  etc for the majority of Americans while making those Already wealthy far, far richer . This has been proven by 40 years Of experience.
This is not.

Okay, admittedly I’m not Chris, but I can’t seem to get back to sleep at the moment and I still feel like I can try to be polite or at least not a COMPLETE asshat while still giving my honest opinion on this post. Hopefully the more people add their thoughts the more points get considered. As a heads up, I consider myself probably a right wing moderate, though a registered independent, and not really in the way you define right wing here. (Since you outlined your stances, I’ll open myself up for commentary and learning as well, though I may be about to piss a lot of people off, or at least get some depressed head shakes. I’m a Fiscal Conservative, support decentralized power mostly, care pretty deeply about an honest interpretation of the Constitution as it is written rather than oligarchy via judicial fiat and unnecessary legislating from the bench, consider it a way to protect the individual both from outright unjust and unequal government action and delineate what each level of government can and cannot do, more a cosmopolitan in part than just a pure political realist on the international stage, and I do think there are times when intervention economic political or even potentially militarily can be justified both morally and strategically, not a huge fan of raw neoliberalism in trade or a believer in unlimited globalism or global governance that includes authoritarian shitbags and the like, believe we need more than just unilateral action and bilateral alliances though there is a place for both, believe we can help the poor without destroying the free market or undermining America with poverty traps like binary welfare cutoff lines, and that racial and other inequality can be reduced by pro-poor and economic mobility and opportunity policies without discrimination on the basis of race or sex, which should be legally protected against regardless of alleged privilege level, religion, speech, race or sex. I also have a somewhat controversial belief that megacorps and the like should not be able to refuse services solely on the basis of political affiliation, because that way lies oppression and cultural tyranny.)
This is a rational position.

I don't agree with either of you on many details, but except for BM's rant about Trump, you both seem to fall within the "can talk to other people without frothing" category. But why are you both posting this in a thread about bad moderation on another forum?

OK so with no support or rationale you say my position on the Trump  right is not rational, but agree when I critiqu.e the left. I feel my view on the trump right is fairly accurate, show ne where it is inacurrate.

Also in Re to other statements I never said that I thought tge woke left and Trump rifht were equally bad, the trump right is worse. They're the ones advocating mass murder of people based on political, religious,  social and sexual issues.

Also the right just can't accept that the 2020 election was a national reffendum on Trump right vs woke left, and it had tge largest turnout in American history.  The Trump right was rejected and Biden won with tge most votes in history . He beat Trump by 7 million votes after Hillary beat him with 3 million.

So of course it's ''STOLEN ELECTION!  VOTER FRAUD! REVOLT! ''
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on June 26, 2022, 01:25:16 PM
Sigh. Jeff I keep hoping a covid virus with your name on it ends up tettibg drawn into that ever open mouth of yours. You do nothing but throw shit into the world and it would be a less awful place if you were removed from it.

I'm loving the early 2000s keyboard warrior energy but wishing someone died of a disease is a bit strong isn't it?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 26, 2022, 01:33:30 PM
Woke left.  Claims to support freedom and liberty but actualy supports extreme censorship of views that are offensive to the far left standards of offensive speech. Wants to force ''respect and acceptance of all'', except those seen as 'privileged '' by being white males, with a censorship policy enforced by threat of job loss, social ostracism,  denial of access to media,  fines if possible and similar means. Believes you can address  past wrongs against various groups by curtailing the rights of the current members of the group that oppressed and abused them. Ignores the fact huge numbers of white males were and are impoverished, disenfranchised,  exploited and otherwise abused by the elites just as much as minorties and women are. Wants a disasterous and discredited economic model based on radical socialism that is very likey to produce economic disaster.
This is a rational position.

The Trump right claims to champion' freedumb' and 'libirdy' while advocating fascism when it doesn't get it's way in every election. Claims to adhere to the constitution while subverting it with court packing, gerrymandering,  voter suppression, obstructionism ,etc. Blames 'the left' for crises while obstructing any effort to alleviate them.  Believes in law and order for most people as a tool of oppression and quelling protest while allowing the rich to do as they please. Accuses the left of violence while openly endorsing brutal oppression of protest, assassination of enemy political leaders,  violent actions against any who resist them, etc.  (Trump called on people to use the second amendment if they lost an election while miming firing a rifle) Supports a proven failure of an economic model called supply side economics, I. E.  Trickle down econimics, reaganomics, voodoo economics, etc. A
policy that has been forced on America since 1980 and has driven down wages, wealth, standards of living,  job security,  etc for the majority of Americans while making those Already wealthy far, far richer . This has been proven by 40 years Of experience.
This is not.

Okay, admittedly I’m not Chris, but I can’t seem to get back to sleep at the moment and I still feel like I can try to be polite or at least not a COMPLETE asshat while still giving my honest opinion on this post. Hopefully the more people add their thoughts the more points get considered. As a heads up, I consider myself probably a right wing moderate, though a registered independent, and not really in the way you define right wing here. (Since you outlined your stances, I’ll open myself up for commentary and learning as well, though I may be about to piss a lot of people off, or at least get some depressed head shakes. I’m a Fiscal Conservative, support decentralized power mostly, care pretty deeply about an honest interpretation of the Constitution as it is written rather than oligarchy via judicial fiat and unnecessary legislating from the bench, consider it a way to protect the individual both from outright unjust and unequal government action and delineate what each level of government can and cannot do, more a cosmopolitan in part than just a pure political realist on the international stage, and I do think there are times when intervention economic political or even potentially militarily can be justified both morally and strategically, not a huge fan of raw neoliberalism in trade or a believer in unlimited globalism or global governance that includes authoritarian shitbags and the like, believe we need more than just unilateral action and bilateral alliances though there is a place for both, believe we can help the poor without destroying the free market or undermining America with poverty traps like binary welfare cutoff lines, and that racial and other inequality can be reduced by pro-poor and economic mobility and opportunity policies without discrimination on the basis of race or sex, which should be legally protected against regardless of alleged privilege level, religion, speech, race or sex. I also have a somewhat controversial belief that megacorps and the like should not be able to refuse services solely on the basis of political affiliation, because that way lies oppression and cultural tyranny.)
This is a rational position.

I don't agree with either of you on many details, but except for BM's rant about Trump, you both seem to fall within the "can talk to other people without frothing" category. But why are you both posting this in a thread about bad moderation on another forum?

OK so with no support or rationale you say my position on the Trump  right is not rational, but agree when I critiqu.e the left. I feel my view on the trump right is fairly accurate, show ne where it is inacurrate.

Also in Re to other statements I never said that I thought tge woke left and Trump rifht were equally bad, the trump right is worse. They're the ones advocating mass murder of people based on political, religious,  social and sexual issues.

Also the right just can't accept that the 2020 election was a national reffendum on Trump right vs woke left, and it had tge largest turnout in American history.  The Trump right was rejected and Biden won with tge most votes in history . He beat Trump by 7 million votes after Hillary beat him with 3 million.

So of course it's ''STOLEN ELECTION!  VOTER FRAUD! REVOLT! ''

(https://i.redd.it/aigdktiwe8gz.jpg)

(https://i.imgflip.com/46uxzy.jpg)

(https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/5/84/39838999-0c883285c46a88e812cb249876076d54.jpg)
....
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 26, 2022, 01:52:15 PM
Woke left.  Claims to support freedom and liberty but actualy supports extreme censorship of views that are offensive to the far left standards of offensive speech. Wants to force ''respect and acceptance of all'', except those seen as 'privileged '' by being white males, with a censorship policy enforced by threat of job loss, social ostracism,  denial of access to media,  fines if possible and similar means. Believes you can address  past wrongs against various groups by curtailing the rights of the current members of the group that oppressed and abused them. Ignores the fact huge numbers of white males were and are impoverished, disenfranchised,  exploited and otherwise abused by the elites just as much as minorties and women are. Wants a disasterous and discredited economic model based on radical socialism that is very likey to produce economic disaster.
This is a rational position.

The Trump right claims to champion' freedumb' and 'libirdy' while advocating fascism when it doesn't get it's way in every election. Claims to adhere to the constitution while subverting it with court packing, gerrymandering,  voter suppression, obstructionism ,etc. Blames 'the left' for crises while obstructing any effort to alleviate them.  Believes in law and order for most people as a tool of oppression and quelling protest while allowing the rich to do as they please. Accuses the left of violence while openly endorsing brutal oppression of protest, assassination of enemy political leaders,  violent actions against any who resist them, etc.  (Trump called on people to use the second amendment if they lost an election while miming firing a rifle) Supports a proven failure of an economic model called supply side economics, I. E.  Trickle down econimics, reaganomics, voodoo economics, etc. A
policy that has been forced on America since 1980 and has driven down wages, wealth, standards of living,  job security,  etc for the majority of Americans while making those Already wealthy far, far richer . This has been proven by 40 years Of experience.
This is not.

Okay, admittedly I’m not Chris, but I can’t seem to get back to sleep at the moment and I still feel like I can try to be polite or at least not a COMPLETE asshat while still giving my honest opinion on this post. Hopefully the more people add their thoughts the more points get considered. As a heads up, I consider myself probably a right wing moderate, though a registered independent, and not really in the way you define right wing here. (Since you outlined your stances, I’ll open myself up for commentary and learning as well, though I may be about to piss a lot of people off, or at least get some depressed head shakes. I’m a Fiscal Conservative, support decentralized power mostly, care pretty deeply about an honest interpretation of the Constitution as it is written rather than oligarchy via judicial fiat and unnecessary legislating from the bench, consider it a way to protect the individual both from outright unjust and unequal government action and delineate what each level of government can and cannot do, more a cosmopolitan in part than just a pure political realist on the international stage, and I do think there are times when intervention economic political or even potentially militarily can be justified both morally and strategically, not a huge fan of raw neoliberalism in trade or a believer in unlimited globalism or global governance that includes authoritarian shitbags and the like, believe we need more than just unilateral action and bilateral alliances though there is a place for both, believe we can help the poor without destroying the free market or undermining America with poverty traps like binary welfare cutoff lines, and that racial and other inequality can be reduced by pro-poor and economic mobility and opportunity policies without discrimination on the basis of race or sex, which should be legally protected against regardless of alleged privilege level, religion, speech, race or sex. I also have a somewhat controversial belief that megacorps and the like should not be able to refuse services solely on the basis of political affiliation, because that way lies oppression and cultural tyranny.)
This is a rational position.

I don't agree with either of you on many details, but except for BM's rant about Trump, you both seem to fall within the "can talk to other people without frothing" category. But why are you both posting this in a thread about bad moderation on another forum?

OK so with no support or rationale you say my position on the Trump  right is not rational, but agree when I critiqu.e the left. I feel my view on the trump right is fairly accurate, show ne where it is inacurrate.

Also in Re to other statements I never said that I thought tge woke left and Trump rifht were equally bad, the trump right is worse. They're the ones advocating mass murder of people based on political, religious,  social and sexual issues.

Also the right just can't accept that the 2020 election was a national reffendum on Trump right vs woke left, and it had tge largest turnout in American history.  The Trump right was rejected and Biden won with tge most votes in history . He beat Trump by 7 million votes after Hillary beat him with 3 million.

So of course it's ''STOLEN ELECTION!  VOTER FRAUD! REVOLT! ''

So, I'm gonna let Pat speak for and expand on his ideas himself, provided he feels it's relevant to the thread. That said, apologies if you feel I misrepresented your stance on Trump right vs woke left in terms of relative authoritarian badness. I thought I was being generous in my assumptions, and sometimes when I put things in quotation marks to paraphrase what I think people say I kinda just wind up whiffing.

That said, I think my prior response (don't remember which paragraph it was exactly) to your stated paragraph stance on Trump Republicans and Republicans more generally touched on this Authoritarian Left vs Right debate a little bit. I'm gonna paraphrase what I said minus some of my Trump condemnations to condense and more pointedly answer the question, and hopefully this doesn't take the thread too far off topic. I don't believe the Right has actively advocated identity based mass murder, and while I never addressed that in my post I also don't think you said that earlier. Also, I feel like the right is more protective than the left of religion specifically in many cases, and that the left discriminates against folks like white males in their own way, which I think you would probably agree with. I do believe most Republicans are legitimately misinformed and deluded about the election, as noted and for the reasons noted, though that's probably an unpopular opinion on this site, and most Republicans like most Americans also believe that rule by vote count is not the same thing as rule by legitimate vote count, in which case it makes sense they would be upset. I believe the protesters were both a minority of Republicans and even Trump Republicans (because there haven't been many protests of that scale or intent since), genuinely deluded, and though they should not have attempted to change vote count by force rather than legal action, or broken any laws (to be clear I hate it when the left or anybody else does this too, even in protest), if they had been right it might have been more morally justified, and they genuinely thought they were right. Likewise, I think both sides of media overexaggerate and amplify violence on the other side, while not holding their own extremists accountable, which sucks. On which note, I feel there are violent extremists who actually do use force unjustifiably on both sides, but that these are not representative of either population, for the most part. I've addressed gerrymandering as something both sides do, albeit Republicans more noticably because they have a more homogenous constituency. I've addressed how making it harder to vote in general is class based discrimination, not race based, and is presumably politically motivated more so than anything else for the politicians, and out of real (albeit potentially statistically unsupported) fear of voter fraud for the average Trump Republican. Likewise, the left wanted to pack the supreme court. Moreover, liberals even who aren't politicians oftentimes practice and promote political discrimination, partly as I touch upon in the COVID thread as regards my thoughts and opinions. Gave my opinion earlier on economics, corporate taxes, regulation, market failures and wealth in various separate paragraphs (scattered throughout) addressed to your post, but I'll avoid reposting because that's probably not super relevant here. Point being, I disagree with several of your specific points. Also, much though I dislike Trump, and his rhetorical abuse of it to potentially incite UNJUSTIFIED rebellion, the 2nd amendment exists for a reason, and part of that reason is to protect the citizenry from unjust rule. Also, if you look at gun ownership figures, seems pretty obvious to me that if Republicans were actually LITERALLY win at any cost, they'd be using their numerical advantage to violent effect. Instead, we seem them being mostly peaceful and complying with the law despite the fact that they see Biden's win as illegitimate. As to whether Authoritarian Republicans (which I feel now that I think of it isn't even necessarily Trump Republicans) specifically or Authoritarian Liberals (admittedly not all liberals, though I think maybe most) are worse, I prefer to say Authoritarian Liberals, but also I'd rather have folks along my own specific political lines than either, by a lot (go figure, I have opinions). Point being, I don't think it's reasonable to cast blame only on one side of Left vs Right, or even mostly or that much significantly more on one side, and while I'll admit I'm probably biased in my own ways despite trying to consume and analyze media and studies from both sides, I think you too could be a bit biased on this topic. My most watched news source is FOX NEWS despite it's low accuracy and quality on some things, because I prefer things critical of the current establishment typically. I'd bet you have your own more liberal media, which as Pat postulates could mean we are being polarized and having our views distorted in opposite directions through little fault of our own. Also, we are human, and have an innate capacity and inclination to seek confirmation of such bias, and to demonize the opposition/the other.

I think also that my last active post kinda lays out my thoughts on moderates, their potential for authoritarianism both in general and in website moderation, whether they could be authoritarian, whether they can effectively rally around set policy principles and organize as a radical middle, and etcetera, to go back to my understanding of the post you gave before Chris asked your stances on extremism left and right. Out of curiosity, thoughts on my post and Pat's response?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 26, 2022, 02:10:40 PM
OK so with no support or rationale you say my position on the Trump  right is not rational, but agree when I critiqu.e the left. I feel my view on the trump right is fairly accurate, show ne where it is inacurrate.
Sure, but post it in a thread where it belongs.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 26, 2022, 02:19:37 PM
Yeah, I took my own mind's distraction bait again. I was totally convinced that I had tied in RPG.net to everything I wrote, and that what I posted should still be in the thread. And then I looked at what Pat just posted, reevaluated, and realized that pretty much my whole second paragraph was entirely unrelated, whereas likewise only the third paragraph directly tied in fully to that topic. Hopefully this does not become a pattern for me within this thread, since now that I think of it I kinda did similar interest-driven topic wandering on statistics involving police and minorities when jhkim's statements peaked my interest. I admittedly have somewhat bad impulse control and occasionally feel I have to speak my piece even on unrelated topics once I get the mental wheels turning. Still, something I can work on, and ideally something I will be more mindful of going forwards.

Weird unrelated question to jumpstart relevant discussion again, but in addition to my rambling thoughts and questions regarding moderates, (still interested in hearing Battlemaster's and other folks thoughts on that and Pat's reply, which I also thought was interesting) are there any right wing sites that favor sketchy moderation and censorship like RPG.net? I haven't really heard of any, except for some false appeals to this one because Pundit moderates threads to some extent on his forum and in his house, so to speak. Primarily to keep them relevant to specific topics of discussion and cetera.

I feel like in terms of a preference for free speech, and a fear of corporate censorship maybe the modern right is more tolerant specifically within a digital moderation context. 

(Also, in instances where nobody has yet replied to my posts and I think they need to be altered to better express what I'm trying to say, I have admittedly edited said posts. I'd assume since it's an option that's mostly okay, right?)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on June 26, 2022, 07:29:42 PM
I can't see Tangency, so did one of the mods quote the wrong post in Valtiel's infraction? (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/valtiel-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-lashing-out-in-panic.898814/)

Because I don't see how this
Quote
I earnestly suggest you stop reading Twitter - it's designed to amplify things that make you sad and anxious. I've been noticeably happier since I cut it out. What worked for me is rewarding myself with a sweet or some videogame time or something every single time I thought of going on Twitter and then refrained from it.

This forum is the last bit of social media I use, and while it's definitely more coherent, it's still full of too much pain. I think most of the tangency front-page threads are now hidden from me because I've ignore-listed the users, but it's not really helping that much.

qualifies as "lashing out in panic."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 26, 2022, 08:12:13 PM
I can't see Tangency, so did one of the mods quote the wrong post in Valtiel's infraction? (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/valtiel-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-lashing-out-in-panic.898814/)

Because I don't see how this
Quote
I earnestly suggest you stop reading Twitter - it's designed to amplify things that make you sad and anxious. I've been noticeably happier since I cut it out. What worked for me is rewarding myself with a sweet or some videogame time or something every single time I thought of going on Twitter and then refrained from it.

This forum is the last bit of social media I use, and while it's definitely more coherent, it's still full of too much pain. I think most of the tangency front-page threads are now hidden from me because I've ignore-listed the users, but it's not really helping that much.

qualifies as "lashing out in panic."
By no rational judgement is Valtiel lashing out in a panic. However, Valtiel’s post included criticism of TBP even though the user still visits. Thus the post could not stand, and the ban hammer had to come out regardless of justification.

It’s not enough to obey Big Purple. One must love Big Purple.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 26, 2022, 10:21:27 PM
I can't see Tangency, so did one of the mods quote the wrong post in Valtiel's infraction? (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/valtiel-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-lashing-out-in-panic.898814/)

Because I don't see how this
Quote
I earnestly suggest you stop reading Twitter - it's designed to amplify things that make you sad and anxious. I've been noticeably happier since I cut it out. What worked for me is rewarding myself with a sweet or some videogame time or something every single time I thought of going on Twitter and then refrained from it.

This forum is the last bit of social media I use, and while it's definitely more coherent, it's still full of too much pain. I think most of the tangency front-page threads are now hidden from me because I've ignore-listed the users, but it's not really helping that much.

qualifies as "lashing out in panic."
By no rational judgement is Valtiel lashing out in a panic. However, Valtiel’s post included criticism of TBP even though the user still visits. Thus the post could not stand, and the ban hammer had to come out regardless of justification.

It’s not enough to obey Big Purple. One must love Big Purple.

Damn, almost like a religion.  Honestly, at times I wonder of the moddisars there see themselves as on some sort of holy task.

Anyway, can somone with access to tbp screencap some of tge messages around this bad by age nagging bitch? https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/jonb-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-racism.898782/

Yeah, since she has an avatar that looks like a naggibg bitch that's all I see her as, never bother with her name.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 27, 2022, 08:23:06 AM
I can't see Tangency, so did one of the mods quote the wrong post in Valtiel's infraction? (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/valtiel-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-lashing-out-in-panic.898814/)

Because I don't see how this
Quote
I earnestly suggest you stop reading Twitter - it's designed to amplify things that make you sad and anxious. I've been noticeably happier since I cut it out. What worked for me is rewarding myself with a sweet or some videogame time or something every single time I thought of going on Twitter and then refrained from it.

This forum is the last bit of social media I use, and while it's definitely more coherent, it's still full of too much pain. I think most of the tangency front-page threads are now hidden from me because I've ignore-listed the users, but it's not really helping that much.

qualifies as "lashing out in panic."
By no rational judgement is Valtiel lashing out in a panic. However, Valtiel’s post included criticism of TBP even though the user still visits. Thus the post could not stand, and the ban hammer had to come out regardless of justification.

It’s not enough to obey Big Purple. One must love Big Purple.

Damn, almost like a religion.  Honestly, at times I wonder of the moddisars there see themselves as on some sort of holy task.

Anyway, can somone with access to tbp screencap some of tge messages around this bad by age nagging bitch? https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/jonb-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-racism.898782/

Yeah, since she has an avatar that looks like a naggibg bitch that's all I see her as, never bother with her name.
Yeah, I don't know what salinea is huffing there.

Bethdragon is another interesting case. She had a REAL humdinger with Age of Fable where said poster objected to Seiberwing (another trash mod) characterizing his posts as 'aggressive and threats of gambling'. Yeah, I dunno either.

Relevant links:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/age-of-fable-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban.873168/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/age-of-fable-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-and-threadban.873229/

The real gem, though, was this line from Bethdragon:
Quote
Actually, _yes_, we _do_ want you to be repentant and intimidated, because _maybe_ that would make you think about how you interact with other people and the moderation on this website. And if you don't care about the power to ban you from this website, you won't care when that banning happens.

Really, Beth? You're attempting to flex with your power as a mod on an elfgames forum? Really?

Interestingly, while her activity shows she was on yesterday, she's not posted since September 2021 (unless it's been in some kind of private mods-only or special snowflake subforum, which I can't rule out).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 27, 2022, 08:53:11 AM
On a side note, if you have an account I can highly recommend the SCOTUS thread (now reopened) for laughs.

They're talking up replacing Manchin and Sinema, in addition to tossing bans at some folks for revenge fantasies (I suspect they come down on that because of the legal implications).

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 27, 2022, 09:28:49 AM
I can't see Tangency, so did one of the mods quote the wrong post in Valtiel's infraction? (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/valtiel-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-lashing-out-in-panic.898814/)

Because I don't see how this
Quote
I earnestly suggest you stop reading Twitter - it's designed to amplify things that make you sad and anxious. I've been noticeably happier since I cut it out. What worked for me is rewarding myself with a sweet or some videogame time or something every single time I thought of going on Twitter and then refrained from it.

This forum is the last bit of social media I use, and while it's definitely more coherent, it's still full of too much pain. I think most of the tangency front-page threads are now hidden from me because I've ignore-listed the users, but it's not really helping that much.

qualifies as "lashing out in panic."
By no rational judgement is Valtiel lashing out in a panic. However, Valtiel’s post included criticism of TBP even though the user still visits. Thus the post could not stand, and the ban hammer had to come out regardless of justification.

It’s not enough to obey Big Purple. One must love Big Purple.

Damn, almost like a religion.  Honestly, at times I wonder of the moddisars there see themselves as on some sort of holy task.

Anyway, can somone with access to tbp screencap some of tge messages around this bad by age nagging bitch? https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/jonb-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-racism.898782/

Yeah, since she has an avatar that looks like a naggibg bitch that's all I see her as, never bother with her name.
It’s a cult among the mods and most Tangency users at TBP. Look up the concept of secular religion, and I think you’ll find the Woke would fit right in with the concepts of secular religion.

Their behavior reminds me so often of 1984, that I think it must be that some of the mods had to have read it, and thought to themselves “some of these ideas by the Party are actually pretty awesome.”
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on June 27, 2022, 12:50:47 PM
Aw. That's cute. They're having a membership drive.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rpgnet-membership-drive-2022-edition#/

That video just oozes personality....my my.

But why would they want new members?

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 27, 2022, 01:00:02 PM
Aw. That's cute. They're having a membership drive.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rpgnet-membership-drive-2022-edition#/

That video just oozes personality....my my.

But why would they want new members?
More like they want their paypigs to fill the coffers.

I mean, if Dyvers Hands (the owner of TBP) has done -anything-, please tell me. I have no idea what their revenue stream is aside from e-begging.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 27, 2022, 01:47:03 PM
I mean, if Dyvers Hands (the owner of TBP) has done -anything-, please tell me. I have no idea what their revenue stream is aside from e-begging.
TBP is owned by Skotos, which is primarily known for MUDs. Which unless you lived though the 90s, you've probably never heard of. Which should tell you a bit about their market reach and importance. They're a legacy company from a previous era.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on June 27, 2022, 01:49:17 PM
Sigh. Jeff I keep hoping a covid virus with your name on it ends up tettibg drawn into that ever open mouth of yours. You do nothing but throw shit into the world and it would be a less awful place if you were removed from it.

Woah. Jeff talks shit like everyone else, but he isn't THAT guy! (and he hates me - so my defending him should be a clue you might be off base). Maybe you just need to talk gaming with him.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on June 27, 2022, 02:45:33 PM
Now that Tanka's MIA, Bethdragon is who I would now consider the Worst of the Worst.  Her modding decisions may not be any worse than the others, but at self-righteous, puritanical, holier-than-thou scolding she (???  Don't want to misgender it) takes the crown.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 27, 2022, 03:03:56 PM
Now that Tanka's MIA, Bethdragon is who I would now consider the Worst of the Worst.  Her modding decisions may not be any worse than the others, but at self-righteous, puritanical, holier-than-thou scolding she (???  Don't want to misgender it) takes the crown.

You are not alone in your opinion.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on June 27, 2022, 04:36:58 PM
I mean, if Dyvers Hands (the owner of TBP) has done -anything-, please tell me. I have no idea what their revenue stream is aside from e-begging.
TBP is owned by Skotos, which is primarily known for MUDs. Which unless you lived though the 90s, you've probably never heard of. Which should tell you a bit about their market reach and importance. They're a legacy company from a previous era.
You sure about that? The about page says Dyvers Hands owns it.

Dyvers. Die Verse. Diverse. Hmmm...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 27, 2022, 06:55:15 PM
I mean, if Dyvers Hands (the owner of TBP) has done -anything-, please tell me. I have no idea what their revenue stream is aside from e-begging.
TBP is owned by Skotos, which is primarily known for MUDs. Which unless you lived though the 90s, you've probably never heard of. Which should tell you a bit about their market reach and importance. They're a legacy company from a previous era.
You sure about that? The about page says Dyvers Hands owns it.

Dyvers. Die Verse. Diverse. Hmmm...
It's also a reference to the Cthulhu Mythos (multiple people associated with TBP have written for Chaosium's line), and could potentially be a reference to the city in Greyhawk (Appelcline wrote all the bios for D&D Classics, at DM's Guild).

It didn't used to say Dyvers Hands on the bottom of the page. But if you go to About, Christopher Allen is listed as the Publisher, President, and Founder of DH. Christopher Allen is also the President of Skotos. And Shannon Appelcline has been a long time employee of Skotos, as well as the admin of TBP. Looking up DH at the Wyoming Secretary of State's business search shows the business was registered in 2019. And the home page on skotos.net has a sign off letter from Allen and Appelcline, saying they're closing the site as of September 2020.

So it's been juggled around and Skotos has been mostly farmed out to the fans, but it's the same people.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 27, 2022, 09:58:36 PM
Sigh. Jeff I keep hoping a covid virus with your name on it ends up tettibg drawn into that ever open mouth of yours. You do nothing but throw shit into the world and it would be a less awful place if you were removed from it.

Woah. Jeff talks shit like everyone else, but he isn't THAT guy! (and he hates me - so my defending him should be a clue you might be off base). Maybe you just need to talk gaming with him.

You are full of more shit than a Christmas Turkey....
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 27, 2022, 10:54:02 PM
Yeah, Skotos vanished a while back. And I'll have you know I still play on a couple MU*'s, sonny. (shakes cane menacingly)

But jokes aside, I'm still wondering what pays their bills, aside from the begging. I grant running a forum isn't exactly bank-breaking these days, but...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 28, 2022, 04:55:07 AM
Sigh. Jeff I keep hoping a covid virus with your name on it ends up tettibg drawn into that ever open mouth of yours. You do nothing but throw shit into the world and it would be a less awful place if you were removed from it.

Woah. Jeff talks shit like everyone else, but he isn't THAT guy! (and he hates me - so my defending him should be a clue you might be off base). Maybe you just need to talk gaming with him.

You are full of more shit than a Christmas Turkey....

Yaaaawwwnnnn.


Seriouwky, dude,  die already. You're just s boring shit throwing troll.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on June 28, 2022, 04:57:25 AM
Yeah, Skotos vanished a while back. And I'll have you know I still play on a couple MU*'s, sonny. (shakes cane menacingly)

But jokes aside, I'm still wondering what pays their bills, aside from the begging. I grant running a forum isn't exactly bank-breaking these days, but...

Wow, skrotos is gone? What a truly insignificant event.

Personally I think Rupert Murdoch is funding rpg.net as it makes the left look bad.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 28, 2022, 05:56:31 AM
Sigh. Jeff I keep hoping a covid virus with your name on it ends up tettibg drawn into that ever open mouth of yours. You do nothing but throw shit into the world and it would be a less awful place if you were removed from it.

Woah. Jeff talks shit like everyone else, but he isn't THAT guy! (and he hates me - so my defending him should be a clue you might be off base). Maybe you just need to talk gaming with him.

You are full of more shit than a Christmas Turkey....

Yaaaawwwnnnn.


Seriouwky, dude,  die already. You're just s boring shit throwing troll.

Who made you cry, oh flaccid one.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 28, 2022, 11:04:05 AM
Thou shalt not point out the elephant in the room.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/rivendellboy-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-and-permanent-uk-and-us-politics-topic-ban-hostile-posting-indistinguishable-from-trolling.898871/

I may disagree with Rivendellboy on policy, but he is absolutely right. The Democrats have had fifty years to shore up RvW, but they couldn't be arsed because it was a good political grift. And now their toy has been taken away from them.

But we can't have meaningful self-reflection on TBP, and so off to the gulag Rivendellboy goes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: bromides on June 28, 2022, 11:50:34 AM
Asking the Democrats to legislate rather than rule by fiat seems impossible these days. DACA was not an Act, despite the deceptive acronym, and so it's no wonder the executive orders were rescinded. Obama could have fixed that one also... but that's never the intent of these tyrants. They expect to rule by fiat, with Democracy being a sham on top of their rule.

I mean... fking Hamurabi figured this out at the dawn of civilization. You fking codify your law so shit don't break down later. Ruling by fiat is a shitty idea. If it can be made a law, then make a law. Don't do this kind of thing if it's just and it's deserved. Otherwise, it ought to be stricken from the record and replaced by actual laws, with the support and actual consent of the governed.

Roe v Wade was just another example of something that they could never justify with actual law, and used to justify our extremist views on abortion (which far exceed most of the rest of the civilized world). It reminds me of the border situation, how our wokeness ended up infesting European law and creating equally disastrous situations in the EMEA region as there are in the US-Mexico cross-border region. Instead of striking a reasonable compromise over abortion in a national legislation, they just fkd up again with extremist/indefensible positions on a social topic that they ought to have managed via legislation.

Fkking Hamurabi, you geniuses. Study history or something. Fk me, these tyrants are so stupid, it's fking painful.

The border situation... Racism is incredibly bad, and race infests border policies, but lawlessness is an even worse form of awful, IMO. The lawless border than creates more racism since people end up losing faith in whatever's left of governance.

...

RPGnet just astounds me with their mimicry of that rule-by-fiat tyranny, which progressives/wokes love so much.

Yes, the Right also devolves into tyranny (as does any government), but it's particularly bad with the Left right now. Everything they said about Trump & tyranny is actually more true of Democrats.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rgalex on June 28, 2022, 12:29:08 PM
Thou shalt not point out the elephant in the room.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/rivendellboy-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-and-permanent-uk-and-us-politics-topic-ban-hostile-posting-indistinguishable-from-trolling.898871/

I may disagree with Rivendellboy on policy, but he is absolutely right. The Democrats have had fifty years to shore up RvW, but they couldn't be arsed because it was a good political grift. And now their toy has been taken away from them.

But we can't have meaningful self-reflection on TBP, and so off to the gulag Rivendellboy goes.

I like the part where they say "You also repeatedly inject discussions of US politics in threads where they are not relevant."

I thought one of their core beliefs was that everything is political.  That's how they justify all the BS on the RPG side of the forums.  How many game threads have been derailed by someone all of a sudden bringing up irrelevant political aspect X?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on June 28, 2022, 04:54:21 PM
The Democrats have had fifty years to shore up RvW, but they couldn't be arsed because it was a good political grift.

This is unfortunately an inherent weakness of any kind of advocacy movement or organization, political or not. To paraphrase Upton Sinclair, it is difficult to get people to commit to permanently resolving an issue when their paycheque depends on it not yet being resolved. (Which is one reason court-mandated resolutions have become so popular: unelected judges become the only people willing to make decisions that will incur the wrath of large portions of an electorate because the backlash won't cost them their office.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: bromides on June 28, 2022, 06:30:24 PM
I thought one of their core beliefs was that everything is political.  That's how they justify all the BS on the RPG side of the forums.  How many game threads have been derailed by someone all of a sudden bringing up irrelevant political aspect X?

"OHhhhh. I didn't want to say anything about Sebastien, the designer of that game... BUUUUUT there was this one incident 10 years ago where he said something about cats with melons on their head.

"Aaaand we all know that melons are coded alt-right language for Nazis, so Sebastien is an actual Nazi.

"AAaand that's why I don't think you should be talking about that in Open.

"BBBUTTTT, that's just my opinion.

"Don't just take my word that Sebastien is a Nazi. Here's a link to a 500-tweet thread about how Sebastien might be a Nazi, though."

(/sarcasm)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 29, 2022, 07:39:14 AM
The Democrats have had fifty years to shore up RvW, but they couldn't be arsed because it was a good political grift.

This is unfortunately an inherent weakness of any kind of advocacy movement or organization, political or not. To paraphrase Upton Sinclair, it is difficult to get people to commit to permanently resolving an issue when their paycheque depends on it not yet being resolved. (Which is one reason court-mandated resolutions have become so popular: unelected judges become the only people willing to make decisions that will incur the wrath of large portions of an electorate because the backlash won't cost them their office.)
Corollary: Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy applies here as well.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 29, 2022, 10:01:40 AM
The Democrats have had fifty years to shore up RvW, but they couldn't be arsed because it was a good political grift.

This is unfortunately an inherent weakness of any kind of advocacy movement or organization, political or not. To paraphrase Upton Sinclair, it is difficult to get people to commit to permanently resolving an issue when their paycheque depends on it not yet being resolved. (Which is one reason court-mandated resolutions have become so popular: unelected judges become the only people willing to make decisions that will incur the wrath of large portions of an electorate because the backlash won't cost them their office.)
Corollary: Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy applies here as well.

Thanks to your having mentioned it, I now know what that is. And yeah, I guess that fits this situation in that folks with dedication to goals pushing to resolve this one would go against those with a dedication to the establishment's interests to keep it running. So for now at least, without the public being willing to make such behavior too costly to the establishment's interests to ignore, the "protectors" of even the political branch of the establishment who mostly run it keep the idealists in line, for the "greater good" of their party and its mobilization or more broadly to give the establishment something to do and "work" on.

Tying Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy to corporate censorship and refusal of goods and services on a political basis, perhaps exemplified at times by sites like RPG.net, maybe part of why we see no action politically is because ironically to some extent voters care? Not enough for it to be costly to the establishment to ignore lasting and significant change on, but enough to make minor attempts and major promises on corporate interests and big tech more of a draw in the polls. Hence leading to a similar situation? IDK, just spitballing here. It's possible I shouldn't be trying to apply the law outside a raw and more literal bureaucratic context. Though I feel like given that bureaucrats are to some degree answerable in government to their political overlords, for such an iron law to exist even circumstantially there would have to be a tacit approval or parallel movement on their part. Regardless, this theorized principle or tendency did get me thinking.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Pat on June 29, 2022, 10:48:53 AM
The Democrats have had fifty years to shore up RvW, but they couldn't be arsed because it was a good political grift.

This is unfortunately an inherent weakness of any kind of advocacy movement or organization, political or not. To paraphrase Upton Sinclair, it is difficult to get people to commit to permanently resolving an issue when their paycheque depends on it not yet being resolved. (Which is one reason court-mandated resolutions have become so popular: unelected judges become the only people willing to make decisions that will incur the wrath of large portions of an electorate because the backlash won't cost them their office.)
Corollary: Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy applies here as well.

Thanks to your having mentioned it, I now know what that is. And yeah, I guess that fits this situation in that folks with dedication to goals pushing to resolve this one would go against those with a dedication to the establishment's interests to keep it running. So for now at least, without the public being willing to make such behavior too costly to the establishment's interests to ignore, the "protectors" of even the political branch of the establishment who mostly run it keep the idealists in line, for the "greater good" of their party and its mobilization or more broadly to give the establishment something to do and "work" on.

Tying Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy to corporate censorship and refusal of goods and services on a political basis, perhaps exemplified at times by sites like RPG.net, maybe part of why we see no action politically is because ironically to some extent voters care? Not enough for it to be costly to the establishment to ignore lasting and significant change on, but enough to make minor attempts and major promises on corporate interests and big tech more of a draw in the polls. Hence leading to a similar situation? IDK, just spitballing here. It's possible I shouldn't be trying to apply the law outside a raw and more literal bureaucratic context. Regardless, this theorized principle or tendency did get me thinking.
That's the entire premise of public economics. There's a tendency for people to judge social and economic decisions or movements by their stated intentions, rather than looking at the end results, or the incentives that encourage people to act in certain ways based on their self interest. That leads people to assume that government employees are selfless "public servants" with no motivations or goals other than to help, or to claim that if you don't immediately spend more money and sacrifice basic rights in support of social program X to help people Y, then you're evil and actively trying to hurt Y. Conversely, this willful blindness and self-delusion is never extended to companies, who are nearly invariably assumed to have evil motivations, even though the entire premise of the free market is voluntary exchanges based on mutual benefit.

There's a reason why bureaucracies always grow and increase in power, why government power always grows and centralizes, why cronyism and corruption happens, and why even the best government programs seem so poorly aligned with the people they're supposed to help. It's called human nature. People in those positions seek to further their own goals, and even if they start with the best intentions, it's easy to rationalize away small compromises that provide personal benefit. Since they're likely to socialize with people in similar circumstances, they'll reinforce each other's decisions. They're naturally inclined to believe they're useful and having an impact, and will blame failures on external factors, like lack of resources, not enough power, interference, or scapegoats outside their normal circles (like companies). They'll do favors for their friends and family, and they'll seek to increase their own power and perpetuate the organization and their part in it. Unlike businesses, who constantly have to adjust their decisions based on the harsh demands of the balance sheet, there is no clear metric by which public organizations are measured, so there is no inherent means of correction when all these incentives drive them off course.

Incidentally, that's also why stateholder capitalism and the ESG movement are so perfidious -- they're removing the one clear corrective that forces businesses to be efficient and serve their customers, and replacing it with the vague and amorphous goals of public policy, which are so easily and almost automatically warped to serve the invested elite instead of the intended beneficiaries.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 29, 2022, 11:06:56 AM
The Democrats have had fifty years to shore up RvW, but they couldn't be arsed because it was a good political grift.

This is unfortunately an inherent weakness of any kind of advocacy movement or organization, political or not. To paraphrase Upton Sinclair, it is difficult to get people to commit to permanently resolving an issue when their paycheque depends on it not yet being resolved. (Which is one reason court-mandated resolutions have become so popular: unelected judges become the only people willing to make decisions that will incur the wrath of large portions of an electorate because the backlash won't cost them their office.)
Corollary: Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy applies here as well.

Thanks to your having mentioned it, I now know what that is. And yeah, I guess that fits this situation in that folks with dedication to goals pushing to resolve this one would go against those with a dedication to the establishment's interests to keep it running. So for now at least, without the public being willing to make such behavior too costly to the establishment's interests to ignore, the "protectors" of even the political branch of the establishment who mostly run it keep the idealists in line, for the "greater good" of their party and its mobilization or more broadly to give the establishment something to do and "work" on.

Tying Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy to corporate censorship and refusal of goods and services on a political basis, perhaps exemplified at times by sites like RPG.net, maybe part of why we see no action politically is because ironically to some extent voters care? Not enough for it to be costly to the establishment to ignore lasting and significant change on, but enough to make minor attempts and major promises on corporate interests and big tech more of a draw in the polls. Hence leading to a similar situation? IDK, just spitballing here. It's possible I shouldn't be trying to apply the law outside a raw and more literal bureaucratic context. Regardless, this theorized principle or tendency did get me thinking.
That's the entire premise of public economics. There's a tendency for people to judge social and economic decisions or movements by their stated intentions, rather than looking at the end results, or the incentives that encourage people to act in certain ways based on their self interest. That leads people to assume that government employees are selfless "public servants" with no motivations or goals other than to help, or to claim that if you don't immediately spend more money and sacrifice basic rights in support of social program X to help people Y, then you're evil and actively trying to hurt Y. Conversely, this willful blindness and self-delusion is never extended to companies, who are nearly invariably assumed to have evil motivations, even though the entire premise of the free market is voluntary exchanges based on mutual benefit.

There's a reason why bureaucracies always grow and increase in power, why government power always grows and centralizes, why cronyism and corruption happens, and why even the best government programs seem so poorly aligned with the people they're supposed to help. It's called human nature. People in those positions seek to further their own goals, and even if they start with the best intentions, it's easy to rationalize away small compromises that provide personal benefit. Since they're likely to socialize with people in similar circumstances, they'll reinforce each other's decisions. They're naturally inclined to believe they're useful and having an impact, and will blame failures on external factors, like lack of resources, not enough power, interference, or scapegoats outside their normal circles (like companies). They'll do favors for their friends and family, and they'll seek to increase their own power and perpetuate the organization and their part in it. Unlike businesses, who constantly have to adjust their decisions based on the harsh demands of the balance sheet, there is no clear metric by which public organizations are measured, so there is no inherent means of correction when all these incentives drive them off course.

Incidentally, that's also why stateholder capitalism and the ESG movement are so perfidious -- they're removing the one clear corrective that forces businesses to be efficient and serve their customers, and replacing it with the vague and amorphous goals of public policy, which are so easily and almost automatically warped to serve the invested elite instead of the intended beneficiaries.

This sounds intuitively true but also terrifying. A lot of of this felt pretty eye opening and caused me to think about things in a different manner, even if some of it I also already agreed with. Maybe I should look more into public economics and add that to my list of basic things to dedicate some time to becoming informed about.

All that being said, how can a bureaucrat or bureaucracy, or at least the people structuring them, or the people electing the people that do that, avoid some of these pitfalls? Or is it just inevitable really that they will be pushed in that direction? Basically, if one wants to fix problems like “ corporate censorship and refusal of goods and services on a political basis, perhaps exemplified at times by sites like RPG.net” (quoting because lazy and afraid I’ll mess up what I think was a decent phrasing) for instance, either from within the system, as the system, as the people who make the system, or as a voter, how can it practically be done? And at what level do we think movement towards this change is best or most viably applied? (I’d assume regardless we want the citizens on board, else tyranny and oligarchy, but still asking.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 29, 2022, 11:15:43 AM
The Democrats have had fifty years to shore up RvW, but they couldn't be arsed because it was a good political grift.

This is unfortunately an inherent weakness of any kind of advocacy movement or organization, political or not. To paraphrase Upton Sinclair, it is difficult to get people to commit to permanently resolving an issue when their paycheque depends on it not yet being resolved. (Which is one reason court-mandated resolutions have become so popular: unelected judges become the only people willing to make decisions that will incur the wrath of large portions of an electorate because the backlash won't cost them their office.)
Corollary: Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy applies here as well.

Thanks to your having mentioned it, I now know what that is. And yeah, I guess that fits this situation in that folks with dedication to goals pushing to resolve this one would go against those with a dedication to the establishment's interests to keep it running. So for now at least, without the public being willing to make such behavior too costly to the establishment's interests to ignore, the "protectors" of even the political branch of the establishment who mostly run it keep the idealists in line, for the "greater good" of their party and its mobilization or more broadly to give the establishment something to do and "work" on.

Tying Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy to corporate censorship and refusal of goods and services on a political basis, perhaps exemplified at times by sites like RPG.net, maybe part of why we see no action politically is because ironically to some extent voters care? Not enough for it to be costly to the establishment to ignore lasting and significant change on, but enough to make minor attempts and major promises on corporate interests and big tech more of a draw in the polls. Hence leading to a similar situation? IDK, just spitballing here. It's possible I shouldn't be trying to apply the law outside a raw and more literal bureaucratic context. Regardless, this theorized principle or tendency did get me thinking.
That's the entire premise of public economics. There's a tendency for people to judge social and economic decisions or movements by their stated intentions, rather than looking at the end results, or the incentives that encourage people to act in certain ways based on their self interest. That leads people to assume that government employees are selfless "public servants" with no motivations or goals other than to help, or to claim that if you don't immediately spend more money and sacrifice basic rights in support of social program X to help people Y, then you're evil and actively trying to hurt Y. Conversely, this willful blindness and self-delusion is never extended to companies, who are nearly invariably assumed to have evil motivations, even though the entire premise of the free market is voluntary exchanges based on mutual benefit.

There's a reason why bureaucracies always grow and increase in power, why government power always grows and centralizes, why cronyism and corruption happens, and why even the best government programs seem so poorly aligned with the people they're supposed to help. It's called human nature. People in those positions seek to further their own goals, and even if they start with the best intentions, it's easy to rationalize away small compromises that provide personal benefit. Since they're likely to socialize with people in similar circumstances, they'll reinforce each other's decisions. They're naturally inclined to believe they're useful and having an impact, and will blame failures on external factors, like lack of resources, not enough power, interference, or scapegoats outside their normal circles (like companies). They'll do favors for their friends and family, and they'll seek to increase their own power and perpetuate the organization and their part in it. Unlike businesses, who constantly have to adjust their decisions based on the harsh demands of the balance sheet, there is no clear metric by which public organizations are measured, so there is no inherent means of correction when all these incentives drive them off course.

Incidentally, that's also why stateholder capitalism and the ESG movement are so perfidious -- they're removing the one clear corrective that forces businesses to be efficient and serve their customers, and replacing it with the vague and amorphous goals of public policy, which are so easily and almost automatically warped to serve the invested elite instead of the intended beneficiaries.

This sounds intuitively true but also terrifying. A lot of of this felt pretty eye opening and caused me to think about things in a different manner, even if some of it I also already agreed with. Maybe I should look more into public economics and add that to my list of basic things to dedicate some time to becoming informed about.

All that being said, how can a bureaucrat or bureaucracy, or at least the people structuring them, or the people electing the people that do that, avoid some of these pitfalls? Or is it just inevitable really that they will be pushed in that direction? Basically, if one wants to fix problems like “ corporate censorship and refusal of goods and services on a political basis, perhaps exemplified at times by sites like RPG.net” (quoting because lazy and afraid I’ll mess up what I think was a decent phrasing) for instance, either from within the system, as the system, as the people who make the system, or as a voter, how can it practically be done? And at what level do we think movement towards this change is best or most viably applied? (I’d assume regardless we want the citizens on board, else tyranny and oligarchy, but still asking.)

Actually, looking back, this might be too broad a question/series of questions and could potentially disrupt this thread. Was trying to figure out what could be done about the systemic realities that give rise to problems like those I feel emphasized by RPG.net. But maybe reform is a bit too big and broad a subject to tackle within this particular thread without derailment. May try starting a thread if I can figure out how to do that, but probably should not hog space here.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on July 04, 2022, 09:33:56 PM
It looks like they had a spate of bans on July 4. Is that how they celebrate a day dedicated to liberty?

Shitpost from jeffy I will not see in 4..3.. 2..

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 05, 2022, 08:26:55 AM
It looks like they had a spate of bans on July 4. Is that how they celebrate a day dedicated to liberty?

Shitpost from jeffy I will not see in 4..3.. 2..
Yes. Because they should have the liberty to stamp out wrongthink.

(that was sarcasm)

The best one IMO was Withnail&I catching a one day for pointing out the absurdity of demanding people account for whatever interpretations a listener might put upon their words. Probably because that's literally TBP policy (the onus is on the poster).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on July 05, 2022, 09:01:45 AM
Sarcasm? Really?

OK, yeah, in all fairness when dealing with that bunch it may be necessary to point that out.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on July 05, 2022, 02:23:05 PM
Guy got a 3 day ban from someone who looks like the guy i usually get when. I call tech support for telling the truth but not qualifying it.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/moritz-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-%E2%80%93-kurdish-persecution-denialism.899148/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on July 05, 2022, 02:55:14 PM
someone who looks like the guy i usually get when. I call tech support

I love it when wokesters do this so casually.....
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on July 05, 2022, 09:42:33 PM
someone who looks like the guy i usually get when. I call tech support

I love it when wokesters do this so casually.....
Yeah, I wish it still surprised me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on July 05, 2022, 10:45:39 PM
Fuck Jeffy, he can't get the difference between not being an asshole like him and being woke. I can get tired of calling tech support or customer service and getting hold of someone who barely speaks English and has an accent so thick I can't understand him. That's really more of a slap at corporations who don't mind selling products to Americans but hate to pay them a decent wage.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on July 05, 2022, 10:53:09 PM
A funny (ha ha) one.
Alex Green has been posting two WIR threads.  One he planned to finish later in the week, and the other he did finish.  He announced that he was becoming a contributing member of society (got a job) and would be spending less time on the 'net after finishing the WIR threads.

He drew a three day ban in the thread that was finished, for triggering somebody somehow.  (I didn't bother to look to see how legit the infraction would be to me).  Then the moderator closed the finished thread.

Let me state it again.  The guy announces he wasn't going to be online much, and the thread was finished, then the moderator gives him a three day ban and closes the thread!

Well, I think it's funny. ;)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on July 05, 2022, 11:31:46 PM
someone who looks like the guy i usually get when. I call tech support

I love it when wokesters do this so casually.....
Yeah, I wish it still surprised me.

Fuck Jeffy, he can't get the difference between not being an asshole like him and being woke. I can get tired of calling tech support or customer service and getting hold of someone who barely speaks English and has an accent so thick I can't understand him. That's really more of a slap at corporations who don't mind selling products to Americans but hate to pay them a decent wage.

The petard you have been hoisted upon is your own.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 05, 2022, 11:35:28 PM
(I didn't bother to look to see how legit the infraction would be to me).

Greene was reading a Mexico setting book for the Hunter game and didn't think some of the villainous NPCs outlined in the book constituted the hostile, problematic representation for Mexico and Mexicans that some other posters did; his argument was that they were self-evidently the bad guys and couldn't possibly be taken as any kind of libellous description of reality. His ban was for downplaying and minimizing racism in a game product.

To which I can only growl in disbelief, "It's the World of fucking Darkness, dude. No group's fictional counterpart makes them look particularly good in the World of fucking Darkness, that's the fucking point!"

At least one stereotypically religious Hunters' organization is depicted in the same book as being a "Stepford Wives"-like group dedicated primarily to profit and control rather than its mission, and I doubt anyone would have caught a ban for ignoring complaints that this is an example of anti-religious bigotry.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 06, 2022, 08:07:52 AM
At this point, I assume any ban on TBP is suspect until further review.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on July 06, 2022, 08:25:21 AM
At this point, I assume any ban on TBP is suspect until further review.
Of course the TBP Admins can decide to sit on a review for months/forever it seems.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 06, 2022, 10:23:54 AM
At this point, I assume any ban on TBP is suspect until further review.
Of course the TBP Admins can decide to sit on a review for months/forever it seems.
I meant 'until someone unconnected to TBP's junta looks at it'. Though you're not wrong. They'll slow-walk appeals like they're being paid for it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 01:21:49 PM
Gee, just like Facebook...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 06, 2022, 03:31:51 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/jonb-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.899189/

Honestly, I suspect JonB was on the edge ever since he ate a couple thirty day bans for the high crime of noting that some of the First Nations protests in Canada weren't exactly constructive (or for that matter, legal). After the second one I'd have walked, but he'd been there for fifteen years. Breaking up is hard to do.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:51:30 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/jonb-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.899189/

Honestly, I suspect JonB was on the edge ever since he ate a couple thirty day bans for the high crime of noting that some of the First Nations protests in Canada weren't exactly constructive (or for that matter, legal). After the second one I'd have walked, but he'd been there for fifteen years. Breaking up is hard to do.

Hey GM, I'm ok with somenprotesrs not being fully legal as some protests are basically against the people making writing and enforcing the laws, but the thing is that  tpb is all for unlawful leftists orotesrs but condemns right wing protests.

Hypocrite much?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 06, 2022, 04:19:42 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/jonb-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.899189/

Honestly, I suspect JonB was on the edge ever since he ate a couple thirty day bans for the high crime of noting that some of the First Nations protests in Canada weren't exactly constructive (or for that matter, legal). After the second one I'd have walked, but he'd been there for fifteen years. Breaking up is hard to do.

Hey GM, I'm ok with somenprotesrs not being fully legal as some protests are basically against the people making writing and enforcing the laws, but the thing is that  tpb is all for unlawful leftists orotesrs but condemns right wing protests.

Hypocrite much?
If you read JonB's comments, the problem was a lot more messy and nuanced than 'government bad, First Nations good'. Two different governing tribal councils, a very stupid action that effectively kidnapped five hundred people, and the RCMP got sent in to sort everything out.

Of course, TBP is run by people who are dumber than shit, so it's automatically 'brutal goverment apologist! BANNED!'.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on July 06, 2022, 06:26:26 PM
someone who looks like the guy i usually get when. I call tech support

I love it when wokesters do this so casually.....
Yeah, I wish it still surprised me.

Fuck Jeffy, he can't get the difference between not being an asshole like him and being woke. I can get tired of calling tech support or customer service and getting hold of someone who barely speaks English and has an accent so thick I can't understand him. That's really more of a slap at corporations who don't mind selling products to Americans but hate to pay them a decent wage.

The petard you have been hoisted upon is your own.

Your two geniuses should take your super-important god-tier feud elsewhere because this thread is simply not big enough for the absolutely astonishing and massive level of truth and cold hard facts that you're both laying down (not to mention your giant swinging virtual god-cocks), and I for one will certainly subscribe to the "Jeff and Battlemaster Smack-Down Thread, Retard Edition" and so will 80% of Internet users everywhere and everyone will clap with a standing ovation when they read what's written on page 285 of your thread because holy shit it will be epic and people will post about it for the ages and you will both become immortal beings of pure light and consciousness and rule the fucking galaxy for ever-loving eternity!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 10:31:38 PM
Do you think the mods get a sadistic kick out of givibg someone a ban withbtge ominous warning about future action, waiting a week or two then upping it to a permaban? One they can't see?

Honestly at times I'm amazed no one has fucked with one on them IRL.  you hear these horror stories about net stalkers and shit but nothing seem to happen to these assholes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 06, 2022, 10:37:43 PM
Do you think the mods get a sadistic kick out of givibg someone a ban withbtge ominous warning about future action, waiting a week or two then upping it to a permaban? One they can't see?

Honestly at times I'm amazed no one has fucked with one on them IRL.  you hear these horror stories about net stalkers and shit but nothing seem to happen to these assholes.
First question, yes. Absolutely. Tanka was IMO one of the worst offenders, but I do believe they get cheap thrills out of swinging the banhammer. With their moronic policy of 'the onus is on the poster', there'll always be an endless supply of wrongthinkers to be clubbed.

Second part, though... let's be honest. TBP is a rapidly shrinking pond. It becomes less relevant every time they ban some poor schmuck. And, sadly, the net stalkers are already there on TBP (hell, a number of them are probably mods). So who's left to call them to account?

It's why I've speculated on what exactly the holding company for TBP, Dyvers Hands, actually DOES.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on July 06, 2022, 11:09:58 PM
Do you think the mods get a sadistic kick out of givibg someone a ban withbtge ominous warning about future action, waiting a week or two then upping it to a permaban? One they can't see?

Honestly at times I'm amazed no one has fucked with one on them IRL.  you hear these horror stories about net stalkers and shit but nothing seem to happen to these assholes.
First question, yes. Absolutely. Tanka was IMO one of the worst offenders, but I do believe they get cheap thrills out of swinging the banhammer. With their moronic policy of 'the onus is on the poster', there'll always be an endless supply of wrongthinkers to be clubbed.

Second part, though... let's be honest. TBP is a rapidly shrinking pond. It becomes less relevant every time they ban some poor schmuck. And, sadly, the net stalkers are already there on TBP (hell, a number of them are probably mods). So who's left to call them to account?

It's why I've speculated on what exactly the holding company for TBP, Dyvers Hands, actually DOES.

Who else is going to take up the burden of protecting innocent RPGers from Trumpers?

It is actually a very stressful job where even your closest companions can be corrupted at any time.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on July 07, 2022, 06:17:21 AM
Do you think the mods get a sadistic kick out of givibg someone a ban withbtge ominous warning about future action, waiting a week or two then upping it to a permaban? One they can't see?

Honestly at times I'm amazed no one has fucked with one on them IRL.  you hear these horror stories about net stalkers and shit but nothing seem to happen to these assholes.
First question, yes. Absolutely. Tanka was IMO one of the worst offenders, but I do believe they get cheap thrills out of swinging the banhammer. With their moronic policy of 'the onus is on the poster', there'll always be an endless supply of wrongthinkers to be clubbed.

Second part, though... let's be honest. TBP is a rapidly shrinking pond. It becomes less relevant every time they ban some poor schmuck. And, sadly, the net stalkers are already there on TBP (hell, a number of them are probably mods). So who's left to call them to account?

It's why I've speculated on what exactly the holding company for TBP, Dyvers Hands, actually DOES.

Who else is going to take up the burden of protecting innocent RPGers from Trumpers?

It is actually a very stressful job where even your closest companions can be corrupted at any time.

Wrell, Battlemaster seems to be bucking for the job of Trumper Anti-Paladin.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 07, 2022, 08:13:14 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sabermane-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-careless-use-of-sexist-language.899214/

I find this one interesting in that they're giving him the three-day for 'using rape casually' but the post says 'careless use of sexist language'.

But then, it's Bcaugust, and it's a retard. What else is new?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on July 07, 2022, 09:16:24 AM
I got a "rape joke" ban for suggesting that the church in GURPS Banestorm wouldn't approve of molesting slaves because it was adultry.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on July 07, 2022, 10:11:52 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sabermane-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-careless-use-of-sexist-language.899214/

I find this one interesting in that they're giving him the three-day for 'using rape casually' but the post says 'careless use of sexist language'.

But then, it's Bcaugust, and it's a retard. What else is new?
Sabermane’s post is humorous. It’s yet another sign that the mods at TBP are in a totalitarian-minded cult. Totalitarian mindsets find it difficult to not take comedy as a threat.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on July 07, 2022, 12:08:08 PM
Just putting this here.
Sabermane’s post is humorous. It’s yet another sign that the mods at TBP are in a totalitarian-minded cult. Totalitarian mindsets find it difficult to not take comedy as a threat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txJtMaKcs70
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 07, 2022, 12:24:48 PM
Totalitarian mindsets find it difficult to not take comedy as a threat.

I would be interested to see what kind of overlap there is between affinity for collectivist politics and the experience of being regularly humiliated, mocked and laughed at as a child. When your formative experience of laughter and jokes is as something which people you hate enjoy at your expense, it's easier to understand why comedy can be seen as threatening, and why speech-restriction laws appear to be a good thing in practice.

And let's be honest: comedy is threatening. Making a joke out of anything is a way to diminish the respect and prestige assigned it by society, which is a very real way to undermine certain modes of power; comedians and satirists today make a big public deal out of "punching up" rather than "punching down", but the most telling element is seeing what they do as "punching" to begin with.

Hence, as always, it comes back to TBP's dedication to "safe spaces", and their consequent fatal mistake of thinking that a safe space must necessarily be a painless space, at least for those they favour protecting.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on July 07, 2022, 02:14:07 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sabermane-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-careless-use-of-sexist-language.899214/

I find this one interesting in that they're giving him the three-day for 'using rape casually' but the post says 'careless use of sexist language'.

But then, it's Bcaugust, and it's a retard. What else is new?

Sabermane.....hmmmm. That sounds so familiar. I think had some sort of argument with Sabermane at one point but I honestly can't remember. Part of the old "Unfunny Feminist Brigade" perhaps?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on July 07, 2022, 02:46:26 PM
Totalitarian mindsets find it difficult to not take comedy as a threat.

I would be interested to see what kind of overlap there is between affinity for collectivist politics and the experience of being regularly humiliated, mocked and laughed at as a child. When your formative experience of laughter and jokes is as something which people you hate enjoy at your expense, it's easier to understand why comedy can be seen as threatening, and why speech-restriction laws appear to be a good thing in practice.

And let's be honest: comedy is threatening. Making a joke out of anything is a way to diminish the respect and prestige assigned it by society, which is a very real way to undermine certain modes of power; comedians and satirists today make a big public deal out of "punching up" rather than "punching down", but the most telling element is seeing what they do as "punching" to begin with.

Hence, as always, it comes back to TBP's dedication to "safe spaces", and their consequent fatal mistake of thinking that a safe space must necessarily be a painless space, at least for those they favour protecting.

This is a surprisingly wise and sensitive observation, and one I will remeber and consider. It does help humanize and understand some people.

Still tho the mods at tbp used to make a policy of mocking and taunting banned users, I recall that, so they were cool with cruel for a long time.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on July 07, 2022, 02:53:57 PM
Totalitarian mindsets find it difficult to not take comedy as a threat.

I would be interested to see what kind of overlap there is between affinity for collectivist politics and the experience of being regularly humiliated, mocked and laughed at as a child. When your formative experience of laughter and jokes is as something which people you hate enjoy at your expense, it's easier to understand why comedy can be seen as threatening, and why speech-restriction laws appear to be a good thing in practice.

And let's be honest: comedy is threatening. Making a joke out of anything is a way to diminish the respect and prestige assigned it by society, which is a very real way to undermine certain modes of power; comedians and satirists today make a big public deal out of "punching up" rather than "punching down", but the most telling element is seeing what they do as "punching" to begin with.

Hence, as always, it comes back to TBP's dedication to "safe spaces", and their consequent fatal mistake of thinking that a safe space must necessarily be a painless space, at least for those they favour protecting.

I'd argue that the correletation is inverse, actually.  As someone who faced cruel jokes at my expense in school, I just got thicker skinned and sharper tongued.  Most of my nerd peer group was the same.  We used to say worse stuff to each other (our friends) than we ever heard from outside.  I think the vast majority of the woke-scolds have been so sheltered and protected that they've never actually faced "hurtful" words.  Heck, "Sticks and stones..." was still the operative advice by all adults if you complained about it back then.  I don't think this comes from damage; it comes from fragility.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 07, 2022, 04:03:30 PM
I'd argue that the correlation is inverse, actually.  As someone who faced cruel jokes at my expense in school, I just got thicker skinned and sharper tongued.

I don't think this comes from damage; it comes from fragility.

Fragility can be induced by damage as well as by sheltering. Tempering strengthens some blades but breaks others, especially if done too quickly or severely.

The attitude of the SJ philosophy is that when the "blades" are people, even one broken blade is too many. Which sounds highly virtuous, but overlooks the practical reality that trying to protect everyone from any kind of psychological discomfort only produces people unable to bear any degree of it, which ultimately does more damage in the long run when that discomfort inevitably occurs.  (The flip side of this, of course, is that it's entirely reasonable to be skeptical of those who use this principle to argue too fervently for allowing people to suffer for "their own good".)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 07, 2022, 04:24:17 PM
I'd argue that the correlation is inverse, actually.  As someone who faced cruel jokes at my expense in school, I just got thicker skinned and sharper tongued.

I don't think this comes from damage; it comes from fragility.

Fragility can be induced by damage as well as by sheltering. Tempering strengthens some blades but breaks others, especially if done too quickly or severely.

As another person who was harassed at school, it made me antisocial. I didn't trust anyone I didn't already know very well to not be an asshole who wanted to torment me. It took me decades after leaving school to get over it and see any other human being as other than a likely tormenter, and to get some amount of self-confidence and sense of self-worth. It affected my working and social life. I thought I was less than dirt and I didn't deserve even the bare minimum of dignity.

My public school days literally ruined my life, and it took a lot of work to undo just some of that damage.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on July 07, 2022, 05:56:44 PM
Sigh. Jeff I keep hoping a covid virus with your name on it ends up tettibg drawn into that ever open mouth of yours. You do nothing but throw shit into the world and it would be a less awful place if you were removed from it.

Woah. Jeff talks shit like everyone else, but he isn't THAT guy! (and he hates me - so my defending him should be a clue you might be off base). Maybe you just need to talk gaming with him.

You are full of more shit than a Christmas Turkey....

How much shit is in a Christmas Turkey? I'm a vegetarian Jew so this is one of those references that goes right over my head :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 07, 2022, 07:03:34 PM
This is a surprisingly wise and sensitive observation, and one I will remember and consider. It does help humanize and understand some people.

Much obliged. I have a somewhat unusual history in that I was fairly left-sympathizing and practically centrist in my younger days, and only drifted towards right-leaning traditionalist conservatism in my thirties (though I'd always been a practicing Catholic and thus had always had some positions now deemed definitionally right-wing, like being pro-life and pro-chastity). As a result I flatter myself to think I understand how people wind up sympathizing with leftist causes, because I used to be one of them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on July 07, 2022, 10:04:32 PM
I'd argue that the correlation is inverse, actually.  As someone who faced cruel jokes at my expense in school, I just got thicker skinned and sharper tongued.

I don't think this comes from damage; it comes from fragility.

Fragility can be induced by damage as well as by sheltering. Tempering strengthens some blades but breaks others, especially if done too quickly or severely.

As another person who was harassed at school, it made me antisocial. I didn't trust anyone I didn't already know very well to not be an asshole who wanted to torment me. It took me decades after leaving school to get over it and see any other human being as other than a likely tormenter, and to get some amount of self-confidence and sense of self-worth. It affected my working and social life. I thought I was less than dirt and I didn't deserve even the bare minimum of dignity.

My public school days literally ruined my life, and it took a lot of work to undo just some of that damage.

Hey,  absolutely zero sarcasm here, ok?  I feel for you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thornhammer on July 07, 2022, 10:48:10 PM
How much shit is in a Christmas Turkey? I'm a vegetarian Jew so this is one of those references that goes right over my head :)

Well, preferably, not a bit, but I understand turkey shit is an acquired taste and may not be considered kosher.  ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on July 07, 2022, 11:32:21 PM
So I had a random thought hit me while browsing the infractions forum. Posters are getting banned for the craziest stupid reasons. It hit me that TBP has become that which they say they hate the most. Congratulations rpg.net, you're fascist.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 08, 2022, 12:21:03 AM
Congratulations rpg.net, you're fascist.

And like all fascisms, it relies on anonymous reporting from its citizens to exert its power.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 08, 2022, 01:56:54 AM
I'd argue that the correlation is inverse, actually.  As someone who faced cruel jokes at my expense in school, I just got thicker skinned and sharper tongued.

I don't think this comes from damage; it comes from fragility.

Fragility can be induced by damage as well as by sheltering. Tempering strengthens some blades but breaks others, especially if done too quickly or severely.

As another person who was harassed at school, it made me antisocial. I didn't trust anyone I didn't already know very well to not be an asshole who wanted to torment me. It took me decades after leaving school to get over it and see any other human being as other than a likely tormenter, and to get some amount of self-confidence and sense of self-worth. It affected my working and social life. I thought I was less than dirt and I didn't deserve even the bare minimum of dignity.

My public school days literally ruined my life, and it took a lot of work to undo just some of that damage.

Hey,  absolutely zero sarcasm here, ok?  I feel for you.

Well, thanks. I appreciate that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on July 08, 2022, 08:00:20 AM
No problem ratman.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on July 08, 2022, 02:47:10 PM
That helps summarize my main beef with the RPGnet-esque identity politics.  I went through a childhood I wouldn't wish on anyone, with just about every flavor of abuse there is, and after tuning out as a weird, messed-up kid from all the abuse, was promptly bullied every day by all the other kids in school, because kids don't like weird, messed-up kids.  I was bordering on suicidal and homicidal throughout my teenage years, and only the lack of access to a stash of guns got me through without significant incidents.  But because of the color of my skin, and the nature of my genitals, I am automatically privileged above a black woman who lived a life full of loving affirmation in these peoples' books.  At best, they may cluck their tongues and say that I am a victim of toxic masculinity, but the very nature of the term blames men for it, so as a man that isn't exactly a big help for me.  They won't care, because I'm of the wrong skin color and sex for them to care, and because the nature of my abuse is not the flavor of the month one which apparently is being told that I'm not a woman if I put on a dress.  I only had to hide under the bed from my own father, that sure can't compare with literally shaking that JK Rowling tweeted something about transwomen not being women.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on July 08, 2022, 06:54:37 PM
Valatar, I sympathize with you. Apparently my white privilege card got lost in the mail.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on July 09, 2022, 08:38:08 AM
That helps summarize my main beef with the RPGnet-esque identity politics.  I went through a childhood I wouldn't wish on anyone, with just about every flavor of abuse there is, and after tuning out as a weird, messed-up kid from all the abuse, was promptly bullied every day by all the other kids in school, because kids don't like weird, messed-up kids.  I was bordering on suicidal and homicidal throughout my teenage years, and only the lack of access to a stash of guns got me through without significant incidents.  But because of the color of my skin, and the nature of my genitals, I am automatically privileged above a black woman who lived a life full of loving affirmation in these peoples' books.  At best, they may cluck their tongues and say that I am a victim of toxic masculinity, but the very nature of the term blames men for it, so as a man that isn't exactly a big help for me.  They won't care, because I'm of the wrong skin color and sex for them to care, and because the nature of my abuse is not the flavor of the month one which apparently is being told that I'm not a woman if I put on a dress.  I only had to hide under the bed from my own father, that sure can't compare with literally shaking that JK Rowling tweeted something about transwomen not being women.

That’s messed up, hope it made you stronger in some ways. Honestly, I think the greatest “privilege” there is is having the luck of being born to great, down-to-earth, no-nonsense, loving parents.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on July 09, 2022, 12:18:43 PM
Valatar, I sympathize with you. Apparently my white privilege card got lost in the mail.

There is a funny scene in the recent Beavis and Butthead Do The Universe movie (on Paramount+) where the boys stumble into a college class and are told they have white privilege, can get away with anything and have no fear of the police because of their privilege. They take it literally, and wreck havoc across campus telling everyone as they go that it's OK, they have white privilege and are allowed to do whatever they want with no ramifications, leading eventually to them stealing the police car and destroying it into a building.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 09, 2022, 02:41:25 PM
That helps summarize my main beef with the RPGnet-esque identity politics.  I went through a childhood I wouldn't wish on anyone, with just about every flavor of abuse there is, and after tuning out as a weird, messed-up kid from all the abuse, was promptly bullied every day by all the other kids in school, because kids don't like weird, messed-up kids.  I was bordering on suicidal and homicidal throughout my teenage years, and only the lack of access to a stash of guns got me through without significant incidents.  But because of the color of my skin, and the nature of my genitals, I am automatically privileged above a black woman who lived a life full of loving affirmation in these peoples' books.  At best, they may cluck their tongues and say that I am a victim of toxic masculinity, but the very nature of the term blames men for it, so as a man that isn't exactly a big help for me.  They won't care, because I'm of the wrong skin color and sex for them to care, and because the nature of my abuse is not the flavor of the month one which apparently is being told that I'm not a woman if I put on a dress.  I only had to hide under the bed from my own father, that sure can't compare with literally shaking that JK Rowling tweeted something about transwomen not being women.

IMO it's a manipulation tactic of the most toxic kind. People fabricate lots of excuses for their behavior. Nowadays it's dirt simple to say "I"m X!" therefore we have to walk on eggshells around them.
Maybe somebody does have a legitimate issue due to their identity, but man, there's a lot of shitty people behaving poorly and then leaning into their identity politics to get a social edge to excuse it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 09, 2022, 04:44:53 PM
I think the greatest “privilege” there is is having the luck of being born to great, down-to-earth, no-nonsense, loving parents.

I've always had a dim fantasy in the back of my mind, should I ever get involved in a public identity politics debate, of whipping this point out as a trump card and saying something like, "Yes, I will admit to my privilege -- the privilege of being born and raised in an intact nuclear religious family with a loving mother and father. Oh, but wait -- that surely can't count as a privilege, can it? Because isn't the entire premise of post-Sexual Revolution family law and zeitgeist that all family types are equal, and none can be counted as inherently better suited to raising children than another?"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on July 09, 2022, 05:08:34 PM

Valatar, I sympathize with you. Apparently my white privilege card got lost in the mail.

There is a funny scene in the recent Beavis and Butthead Do The Universe movie (on Paramount+) where the boys stumble into a college class and are told they have white privilege, can get away with anything and have no fear of the police because of their privilege. They take it literally, and wreck havoc across campus telling everyone as they go that it's OK, they have white privilege and are allowed to do whatever they want with no ramifications, leading eventually to them stealing the police car and destroying it into a building.

I SAW THAT!!!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Battlemaster on July 09, 2022, 05:24:14 PM
Ok, people are talking about identity politics in a negative way abd of course blaming ''SJWs', the 'WOKE' and the left in general.

Well, you're fucking wrong to blame it on the left. Identity politics has been a part of human, and american,  history from the beginning. There's always been identity politics. Americans have always identified themselves into some large groups, like Christian, conservative, republican, democrat, etc.

The right practiced hardcore identity politics starting in the late 40's, identifying themselves as 'real Americans, red blooded god fearing Americans '. Then then identified everyone whowasn't exactly like them as 'godless pinko commie queer traitor scum'.

The right never had a problem with identity politics as long as it kept them united into a monolithic voting block.

They only complained when 'others' begsn decelopibg their own identities to unite against them.

So this making like the keft incebted identity politics is bullshit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 09, 2022, 06:59:53 PM
There's always been identity politics. Americans have always identified themselves into some large groups, like Christian, conservative, republican, democrat, etc.

That's superficially correct, but you're overlooking a key point.

The groups for which the Right advocates are groups defined primarily by the individual members' choice to belong to them: firearms owners, traditional religious believers, nuclear families, business owners, constitutional originalists, etc. The groups for which the Left advocates are defined by the characteristics deemed innate to their member individuals by birth, or deemed to be so heavily influenced by conditions of birth or background that individually escaping them is impractical: ethnicity/race, sex, orientation, mental conditions, socioeconomic class, single motherhood, etc.

This difference in definition is critical to why SJ identity politics is more toxic than standard in-group political loyalty: it assumes that its group members' interests are innately fixed a priori of any given political context, defines all its member groups as unjustly victimized in a way that requires Leftist collectivist policy to redress, and arrogates to the leaders of the movement the prerogative to set those policies based on the leaders' interpretations of what the member groups actually need. Identity politics is essentially a way to polarize the battlefield by putting a uniform on both your own forces and your enemies' that neither can take off, and it makes finding peaceful solutions of compromise even more difficult than normal.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on July 09, 2022, 08:10:57 PM
  The last 60 or so years has mostly been driving the right towards bootstrapping themselves/individuality/making it on their own steam sort of stuff.   Pushing racial identity politics that are openly hostile to other races is going to cause the right to decide to fight fire with fire at some point.  If that happens the left is fucked.  Bigly.  My suggestion would be to approach an injustice as just that on the merits actually present now in real time.  Keep pushing the hatred of the "whiteness" and that is going to go off like a nuclear bomb.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on July 09, 2022, 10:21:02 PM
Ok, people are talking about identity politics in a negative way abd of course blaming ''SJWs', the 'WOKE' and the left in general.

Well, you're fucking wrong to blame it on the left. Identity politics has been a part of human, and american,  history from the beginning. There's always been identity politics. Americans have always identified themselves into some large groups, like Christian, conservative, republican, democrat, etc.

The right practiced hardcore identity politics starting in the late 40's, identifying themselves as 'real Americans, red blooded god fearing Americans '. Then then identified everyone whowasn't exactly like them as 'godless pinko commie queer traitor scum'.

The right never had a problem with identity politics as long as it kept them united into a monolithic voting block.

They only complained when 'others' begsn decelopibg their own identities to unite against them.

So this making like the keft incebted identity politics is bullshit.

"‘There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know." - Works of Thomas Chalkley

You really need to take off those leftist rose-colored glasses and use some objectivity.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on July 09, 2022, 10:25:00 PM
There's always been identity politics. Americans have always identified themselves into some large groups, like Christian, conservative, republican, democrat, etc.

That's superficially correct, but you're overlooking a key point.

The groups for which the Right advocates are groups defined primarily by the individual members' choice to belong to them: firearms owners, traditional religious believers, nuclear families, business owners, constitutional originalists, etc. The groups for which the Left advocates are defined by the characteristics deemed innate to their member individuals by birth, or deemed to be so heavily influenced by conditions of birth or background that individually escaping them is impractical: ethnicity/race, sex, orientation, mental conditions, socioeconomic class, single motherhood, etc.

This difference in definition is critical to why SJ identity politics is more toxic than standard in-group political loyalty: it assumes that its group members' interests are innately fixed a priori of any given political context, defines all its member groups as unjustly victimized in a way that requires Leftist collectivist policy to redress, and arrogates to the leaders of the movement the prerogative to set those policies based on the leaders' interpretations of what the member groups actually need. Identity politics is essentially a way to polarize the battlefield by putting a uniform on both your own forces and your enemies' that neither can take off, and it makes finding peaceful solutions of compromise even more difficult than normal.

Your comment was insightful, nuanced, and shows a careful consideration of the specifics of this discussion.  Therefore it is entirely wasted on that smooth-brain, who only deals in generalizations and invective.  But, I appreciate your attempt.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 10, 2022, 01:31:47 AM
So this making like the keft incebted identity politics is bullshit.

Good thing no one claimed that. We're talking about the recent left/progressive/activist concept of identity politics. Do try to keep up with the conversation if you're going to participate.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 10, 2022, 02:22:16 AM
Your comment was insightful, nuanced, and shows a careful consideration of the specifics of this discussion.  Therefore it is entirely wasted....  But, I appreciate your attempt.

Much obliged; I always subscribe to the notion that being clear about definitions never hurts, and at least this way it's on the record to be referred to.

Battlemaster isn't wrong to point out that since politics is about the art of interest groups pooling influence to achieve common goals, all such coalitions have an interest in making loyalty to that coalition difficult to forsake, and sometimes do so through toxic means. I just think SJ philosophy leads logically to inherently toxic loyalty structures in a way traditional religion and classical liberalism don't necessarily have to.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 11, 2022, 12:54:19 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sub-zero-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.899363/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/liu-kang-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.899390/

These two are probably the same guy. The funny part is that Aikireikinu seems completely oblivious to the points made, instead simply blowing them off as trolls.

But then, self-awareness is not a strong point of TBP mods.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on July 11, 2022, 02:32:55 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sub-zero-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.899363/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/liu-kang-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.899390/

These two are probably the same guy. The funny part is that Aikireikinu seems completely oblivious to the points made, instead simply blowing them off as trolls.

But then, self-awareness is not a strong point of TBP mods.
I think the mods are very aware. Particularly with sub zero’s ban. He was pointing out that many lefties claimed the 2016 election was hacked and questioned the election’s legitimacy. Some lefties also rioted. To point out any similarity between what nonsense some lefties were spewing in 2016, and what some Trump supporters are spewing now is “100% completely different, and if similar it’s actually only bad when Trumpers do it, and now I ban you because this is the kind of badthink that interferes with our cult hive-mind.”

The Woke believe that any transgression of norms can only legitimately be done by their side, and nobody else could ever reply in kind, and perhaps to a greater degree. Think of when the Dems removed the filibuster for judicial appointments other than Supreme Court Justices, and their reaction when the Repubs removed the filibuster for the Supreme Court. Many of the Dems screamed in reaction. They’re using similar language and assumptions when they talk of packing the Supreme Court. People try to point out that the Repubs will reply in kind, but the truly Woke just cover their ears and just babble on about packing the court.

Aikireikinu is surely aware of sub zero’s point, but the Woke have to portray the Jan 6th riots as worse than Pearl Harbor and 9/11 put together. If they reflected that if the Woke rioted for months on end, and this may have led some on the right to conclude that they could also riot to make a point, well that might cause some of the Woke to conclude there might need to be less rioting overall. I think many on the Left hate Rittenhouse more because his shooting his attackers caused the Kenosha riots to die down quickly, and not so much about the 2 individuals he killed, and the other he wounded.

Normal people, left-right-middle, think there ought to be no rioting at all, but the Woke are pro-riot. When Trumper righties show up to riot, “OMG, this is the worst thing ever, and we’ve never engaged in similar activity.”  Ditto with questioning the legitimacy of an election. Heaven forbid if anyone point out that some Dem Congressmen tried to question the Electoral votes for George H. W. Bush in 2000 and 2004, but when some Repubs did the same thing in 2020 then objecting to Electoral votes is Insurrection!!! Stupid and futile actions by your opponent doesn’t equal whatever is the worst crime you can think of if you’re being honest. But the Woke is a cult and therefore they can’t be honest.

Sub zero’s point was relatively mild, and he was engaging with other users at TBP, but that engagement was the problem, not sub zero’s point in and of itself. So when Aikireikinu lowered the ban that was almost certainly to preclude badthink, and not because sub zero’s point was inherently horrendous.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 12, 2022, 10:24:20 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/%E2%80%9Cand-the-girls%E2%80%9D.899403/

What an amazingly pathetic display. Really. Mildly obscure song reference -- I admit I've never heard the tune -- but oh no, it's objectifying, we can't have that.

That place can't die fast enough for me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on July 12, 2022, 10:56:13 AM
That place can't die fast enough for me.
Really? You seem to enjoy the fuel they so regularly bring to your fire that is this thread.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on July 12, 2022, 01:40:19 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sub-zero-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.899363/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/liu-kang-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.899390/

These two are probably the same guy. The funny part is that Aikireikinu seems completely oblivious to the points made, instead simply blowing them off as trolls.

But then, self-awareness is not a strong point of TBP mods.
I think the mods are very aware. Particularly with sub zero’s ban. He was pointing out that many lefties claimed the 2016 election was hacked and questioned the election’s legitimacy. Some lefties also rioted. To point out any similarity between what nonsense some lefties were spewing in 2016, and what some Trump supporters are spewing now is “100% completely different, and if similar it’s actually only bad when Trumpers do it, and now I ban you because this is the kind of badthink that interferes with our cult hive-mind.”

The Woke believe that any transgression of norms can only legitimately be done by their side, and nobody else could ever reply in kind, and perhaps to a greater degree. Think of when the Dems removed the filibuster for judicial appointments other than Supreme Court Justices, and their reaction when the Repubs removed the filibuster for the Supreme Court. Many of the Dems screamed in reaction. They’re using similar language and assumptions when they talk of packing the Supreme Court. People try to point out that the Repubs will reply in kind, but the truly Woke just cover their ears and just babble on about packing the court.

Aikireikinu is surely aware of sub zero’s point, but the Woke have to portray the Jan 6th riots as worse than Pearl Harbor and 9/11 put together. If they reflected that if the Woke rioted for months on end, and this may have led some on the right to conclude that they could also riot to make a point, well that might cause some of the Woke to conclude there might need to be less rioting overall. I think many on the Left hate Rittenhouse more because his shooting his attackers caused the Kenosha riots to die down quickly, and not so much about the 2 individuals he killed, and the other he wounded.

Normal people, left-right-middle, think there ought to be no rioting at all, but the Woke are pro-riot. When Trumper righties show up to riot, “OMG, this is the worst thing ever, and we’ve never engaged in similar activity.”  Ditto with questioning the legitimacy of an election. Heaven forbid if anyone point out that some Dem Congressmen tried to question the Electoral votes for George H. W. Bush in 2000 and 2004, but when some Repubs did the same thing in 2020 then objecting to Electoral votes is Insurrection!!! Stupid and futile actions by your opponent doesn’t equal whatever is the worst crime you can think of if you’re being honest. But the Woke is a cult and therefore they can’t be honest.

Sub zero’s point was relatively mild, and he was engaging with other users at TBP, but that engagement was the problem, not sub zero’s point in and of itself. So when Aikireikinu lowered the ban that was almost certainly to preclude badthink, and not because sub zero’s point was inherently horrendous.

I don't think there should be rioting (rather, antifa leftist terrorism - call it what it is). But when there is, I think normal people who just want to be left alone need to take up arms and make the streets flow with rivers of blood from the "rioters.". Every time a Maxine Waters or Chuck Schumer call for violence, there needs to be someone duly deputized to knock their teeth out and those of their treasonous followers.  It would certainly put a damper on the left if Judge Kavanaugh sent someone to their maker instead of sneaking out the back door of a restaurant in response to being accosted. It's been 35 days since someone tried to assassinate a SCOTUS member and the White House remains silent on it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on July 12, 2022, 07:40:42 PM
The latest bullshit: Pearl-clutching over a superhero RPG called "Crusaders".

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/olivier-legrand-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-%E2%80%93-dismissal-of-concerns-about-racism-and-other-problematic-topics.899449/#post-24430546
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on July 12, 2022, 08:03:26 PM
The latest bullshit: Pearl-clutching over a superhero RPG called "Crusaders".

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/olivier-legrand-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-%E2%80%93-dismissal-of-concerns-about-racism-and-other-problematic-topics.899449/#post-24430546
That’s hilarious in a way. In Jeff Dee’s Villains and Vigilantes game the main super hero group is called the Crusaders. Jeff is super-Woke to the point that years ago at a convention game he was running the pregenerated characters he provided had cis and trans as part of the character stats. I wonder if he’ll feel like he has to rebrand his super hero group now that the Eye of the Woke has gazing disapprovingly at the term crusader in a super hero game.

His con game was also very homoerotic in a Venture Bros. kind of way. It was perhaps unintentional on his part, as he disapproved at the laughs we had at the table over the fact that the super villain group the Crushers, literally had a crush on the Crusaders. The evil plot our junior cadet heroes were supposed to foil was that the Crushers were going to steal a decommissioned former Crusaders super jet, and then fly by the Crusaders headquarters to taunt them that they had stolen their old plane. “Look at us, Crusaders! Pay attention to us!” We we’re imagining the Crushers playing a love song over loud speakers like a John Hughes movie. The dots to connect were all there in plain sight. Nope, being a junior cadet super hero is all very serious Woke business to Jeff.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on July 12, 2022, 08:11:16 PM
  I wonder if those dipshits realize how many High School football teams have the name "Crusaders"?   
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on July 12, 2022, 09:32:09 PM
  I wonder if those dipshits realize how many High School football teams have the name "Crusaders"?
Having more targets to call out and try to shame into approved mascots is a bonus to the Woke.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 12, 2022, 10:22:29 PM
The latest bullshit: Pearl-clutching over a superhero RPG called "Crusaders".

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/olivier-legrand-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-%E2%80%93-dismissal-of-concerns-about-racism-and-other-problematic-topics.899449/#post-24430546

(https://c.tenor.com/zGDcN5HKPekAAAAC/deus-vult.gif)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on July 12, 2022, 10:52:43 PM
The latest bullshit: Pearl-clutching over a superhero RPG called "Crusaders".

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/olivier-legrand-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-%E2%80%93-dismissal-of-concerns-about-racism-and-other-problematic-topics.899449/#post-24430546
Arachne’s deliberate bad reading of the title Crusaders for a super heroes game has resulted in 4 bans so far. I rate her Troll-Game as A+ level. I rate the mods enthusiasm in supporting an obvious troll as disgusting.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on July 13, 2022, 12:50:12 AM
hmmm...a superhero game about a Christian superteam invading the middle east...so there's a notion...I'm sure that's not what it's about but...hmmmm
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 13, 2022, 07:38:56 AM
They'll ban discussion of DNF Duel next, due to the memetic popularity of the Crusader character.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on July 13, 2022, 10:30:59 AM
The latest bullshit: Pearl-clutching over a superhero RPG called "Crusaders".

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/olivier-legrand-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-%E2%80%93-dismissal-of-concerns-about-racism-and-other-problematic-topics.899449/#post-24430546

Notice how they assume that once they remind us that the crusaders were Christians attacking Muslims, then we’ll all understand why it’s “problematic”. But seriously why? Were only Muslims allowed to be conquerors in medieval times? And Christians are STILL being attacked by Muslims in many countries, but somehow it’s the violence going the other way that is more problematic?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on July 13, 2022, 02:46:47 PM
The latest bullshit: Pearl-clutching over a superhero RPG called "Crusaders".

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/olivier-legrand-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-%E2%80%93-dismissal-of-concerns-about-racism-and-other-problematic-topics.899449/#post-24430546

Notice how they assume that once they remind us that the crusaders were Christians attacking Muslims, then we’ll all understand why it’s “problematic”. But seriously why? Were only Muslims allowed to be conquerors in medieval times? And Christians are STILL being attacked by Muslims in many countries, but somehow it’s the violence going the other way that is more problematic?

You're asking for something beyond the shallowest level of thinking. Your demands are too much.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 13, 2022, 04:39:53 PM
The latest bullshit: Pearl-clutching over a superhero RPG called "Crusaders".

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/olivier-legrand-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-%E2%80%93-dismissal-of-concerns-about-racism-and-other-problematic-topics.899449/#post-24430546

Notice how they assume that once they remind us that the crusaders were Christians attacking Muslims, then we’ll all understand why it’s “problematic”. But seriously why? Were only Muslims allowed to be conquerors in medieval times? And Christians are STILL being attacked by Muslims in many countries, but somehow it’s the violence going the other way that is more problematic?

It's a peculiar type of roundabout racism that the Woke exhibit. It seems like they think whites are more responsible for their bad actions as a race than others. That non-whites are a victim class more deserving of pity and sympathy.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on July 13, 2022, 04:50:46 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/public-apology.899484/

One of the users caught up in the Crusader bans has now gone to making a full apology and he’s effectively kowtowing to the Tangency group. It looks like he’s being hacked, and he’s begging Tangency to be merciful to him. TBP Tangency is truly a miserable place.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 13, 2022, 06:20:24 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/public-apology.899484/

One of the users caught up in the Crusader bans has now gone to making a full apology and he’s effectively kowtowing to the Tangency group. It looks like he’s being hacked, and he’s begging Tangency to be merciful to him. TBP Tangency is truly a miserable place.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgSuer8XgAEeqr7?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on July 13, 2022, 06:27:45 PM
It's a peculiar type of roundabout racism that the Woke exhibit. It seems like they think whites are more responsible for their bad actions as a race than others. That non-whites are a victim class more deserving of pity and sympathy.

Yeah, I often feel that they are treating certain groups as innocent children, or as cute pets. if you accept grown Muslims as fully adult humans, capable of doing horrific things like any human, then their stance makes no sense.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on July 13, 2022, 07:05:56 PM
It's a peculiar type of roundabout racism that the Woke exhibit. It seems like they think whites are more responsible for their bad actions as a race than others. That non-whites are a victim class more deserving of pity and sympathy.

Yeah, I often feel that they are treating certain groups as innocent children, or as cute pets. if you accept grown Muslims as fully adult humans, capable of doing horrific things like any human, then their stance makes no sense.

This is how the left hides their racism.  They treat minorities as animals or children.  Only they know what is best for the poor creatures who are incapable of behaving like civilized humans...

It's the same reason why they act as if slavery was only an American thing, totally ignoring all of those enslaved in French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, and British colonies, let alone the Arab slave traders and the African tribes capturing those from rival tribes who enabled the trade to begin with.

No one even talks about European Christians enslaved by the Barbary coast Muslims of North Africa.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on July 13, 2022, 07:49:10 PM
It's a peculiar type of roundabout racism that the Woke exhibit. It seems like they think whites are more responsible for their bad actions as a race than others. That non-whites are a victim class more deserving of pity and sympathy.

Yeah, I often feel that they are treating certain groups as innocent children, or as cute pets. if you accept grown Muslims as fully adult humans, capable of doing horrific things like any human, then their stance makes no sense.

This is how the left hides their racism.  They treat minorities as animals or children.  Only they know what is best for the poor creatures who are incapable of behaving like civilized humans...

It's the same reason why they act as if slavery was only an American thing, totally ignoring all of those enslaved in French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, and British colonies, let alone the Arab slave traders and the African tribes capturing those from rival tribes who enabled the trade to begin with.

No one even talks about European Christians enslaved by the Barbary coast Muslims of North Africa.

Hmm, not so sure about how they feel about those European nations in general; particularly the Spanish Empire is often treated as the evil incarnate. It’s when it goes outside the Western “white” Culture, that the disconnect happens (like all the slavery perpetrated by the Muslim populations you mention).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on July 13, 2022, 08:16:20 PM
I don't follow RPGnet at all, so I don't have any comment about them.

Speaking on the use of "crusader" in general, I feel like the disconnect among people I know is using it as generic "do-gooder" -- when the equivalent term "jihadist" has the opposite connotation. I'm a Christian, but I don't see the Crusades as a positive example of Christianity, like witch burnings or sales of indulgences. Launching holy wars to conquer other peoples certainly isn't unique to Christianity, but that doesn't mean "crusader" should be used as a generic label for "good guy".

Even among my more left-wing gamer friends, I can't picture them having a superhero group called the "Jihadists". They might avoid such a name for villains, but they wouldn't use the term as generic good guys.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 13, 2022, 09:06:37 PM
I don't follow RPGnet at all, so I don't have any comment about them.

Speaking on the use of "crusader" in general, I feel like the disconnect among people I know is using it as generic "do-gooder" -- when the equivalent term "jihadist" has the opposite connotation. I'm a Christian, but I don't see the Crusades as a positive example of Christianity, like witch burnings or sales of indulgences. Launching holy wars to conquer other peoples certainly isn't unique to Christianity, but that doesn't mean "crusader" should be used as a generic label for "good guy".

Even among my more left-wing gamer friends, I can't picture them having a superhero group called the "Jihadists". They might avoid such a name for villains, but they wouldn't use the term as generic good guys.

Probably because Jihadis have a recent and current association with terrible acts.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 14, 2022, 12:06:57 AM
I don't follow RPGnet at all, so I don't have any comment about them.

Speaking on the use of "crusader" in general, I feel like the disconnect among people I know is using it as generic "do-gooder" -- when the equivalent term "jihadist" has the opposite connotation. I'm a Christian, but I don't see the Crusades as a positive example of Christianity, like witch burnings or sales of indulgences. Launching holy wars to conquer other peoples certainly isn't unique to Christianity, but that doesn't mean "crusader" should be used as a generic label for "good guy".

Even among my more left-wing gamer friends, I can't picture them having a superhero group called the "Jihadists". They might avoid such a name for villains, but they wouldn't use the term as generic good guys.

Yeah, how dare the Europeans fight to liberate themselves from the islamists! The Crusades were almost all wars of retaliation and liberation from over 400 years of islamic oppression.

fuck your milketoast "christianity" always ready to make excuses for the worst types and to compare Christianity with Islam.

After the islamists did their Jihad and conquered Europe and demanded the sons and daughters for slaves, one to make eunuchs and the others for sexual slaves mind you, Europe made war against them.

Why is it that you leftoids always are (or feign to be) so ignorant of history?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Minotaurians on July 14, 2022, 04:19:50 AM
Hello everyone.

I'm Olivier Legrand (author of CRUSADERS) and, while I have no intention of actively joining this discussion, I would like to clarify a few things - not regarding my completely groundless ban from RPGnet (which has left me completely dejected and is a fine example of self-righteous hypocrisy, especially considering the fact that the "mod posting as user" who gratuitously attacked me got scott-free - and BTW the photo from the Chinese Cultural Revolution is indeed quite a fitting reference...) but about my choice of title for the game.

I'm partly doing this because John Kim, someone from whom I have the deepest respect, has posted on this thread and I wouldn't want him to have any misconception about my game.

As some of you might know, I'm French. And I (naively ?) thought that "Crusader", in English, predominantly had the following meaning (the "n1°" one):
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/crusader?q=crusader

I could provide other links to other dictionaries but I'm sure you get my point. I had also come to associate the word with the superheroic genre because of various references (Batman described as the "caped crusader", the Crusaders superteam in that old V&V classic scenario etc. - and BTW I notice that "caped crusader" is still being used and widely understood in a non-controversial way: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14681596/). I was also thinking of phrases like "human rights crusader" etc.

Of course, I'm fully aware of the word's etymology but in my mind there was no problem since context was everything. As for myself (if you really want to know I'm a hardcore atheist), I consider the Crusades to be a horrendous historical episode (one among many others) SO PLEASE don't make my game (which is about 1980s superheroes...) into some kind of unwilling flag-bearer for an ideology it has nothing to do with (and that I personally consider opposite to my personal values). This would only double the pain caused by the RPGnet situation: senselessly attacked on RPGnet and then wrongfully 'championed' on the RPGsite, as just another episode of the sites war...

Please have mercy on me. Please don't drag my game into this.

The irony of this is that, had I written the game in French, I would never have called it "Croisé" (the French word for "crusader") because in French its only meaning is religious / historical - I would have scratched my head to find another title, probably something with "héros" in it.

To be completely honest, I thought that, in English, the word 'Crusader' was now completely divorced from its more specific, historical original meaning (again, context...) - just like, say, "Avengers" does not necessarily express some kind of enthusiasm for rough justice or the "Vigilantes" in V&V does not constitute an endorsement of real-world vigilantism or "Superman" is not a nod to the Nazis übermenschen (as the French philosopher Sartre wrongfully believed back in the 50s).

I won't change the title of the game (why should I?) but the last thing I want is for it to become the symbol of something that it is not and was never intended to be. If you really want to know what CRUSADERS is all about, read it.

Sorry for the lengthy post - and believe me the last thing I want is to alienate any more people over pointless / baseless polemics.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 14, 2022, 04:37:01 AM
Hello everyone.

I'm Olivier Legrand (author of CRUSADERS) and, while I have no intention of actively joining this discussion, I would like to clarify a few things - not regarding my completely groundless ban from RPGnet (which has left me completely dejected and is a fine example of self-righteous hypocrisy, especially considering the fact that the "mod posting as user" who gratuitously attacked me got scott-free - and BTW the photo from the Chinese Cultural Revolution is indeed quite a fitting reference...) but about my choice of title for the game.

I'm partly doing this because John Kim, someone from whom I have the deepest respect, has posted on this thread and I wouldn't want him to have any misconception about my game.

As some of you might know, I'm French. And I (naively ?) thought that "Crusader", in English, predominantly had the following meaning (the "n1°" one):
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/crusader?q=crusader

I could provide other links to other dictionaries but I'm sure you get my point. I had also come to associate the word with the superheroic genre because of various references (Batman described as the "caped crusader", the Crusaders superteam in that old V&V classic scenario etc. - and BTW I notice that "caped crusader" is still being used and widely understood in a non-controversial way: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14681596/). I was also thinking of phrases like "human rights crusader" etc.

Of course, I'm fully aware of the word's etymology but in my mind there was no problem since context was everything. As for myself (if you really want to know I'm a hardcore atheist), I consider the Crusades to be a horrendous historical episode (one among many others) SO PLEASE don't make my game (which is about 1980s superheroes...) into some kind of unwilling flag-bearer for an ideology it has nothing to do with (and that I personally consider opposite to my personal values). This would only double the pain caused by the RPGnet situation: senselessly attacked on RPGnet and then wrongfully 'championed' on the RPGsite, as just another episode of the sites war...

Please have mercy on me. Please don't drag my game into this.

The irony of this is that, had I written the game in French, I would never have called it "Croisé" (the French word for "crusader") because in French its only meaning is religious / historical - I would have scratched my head to find another title, probably something with "héros" in it.

To be completely honest, I thought that, in English, the word 'Crusader' was now completely divorced from its more specific, historical original meaning (again, context...) - just like, say, "Avengers" does not necessarily express some kind of enthusiasm for rough justice or the "Vigilantes" in V&V does not constitute an endorsement of real-world vigilantism or "Superman" is not a nod to the Nazis übermenschen (as the French philosopher Sartre wrongfully believed back in the 50s).

I won't change the title of the game (why should I?) but the last thing I want is for it to become the symbol of something that it is not and was never intended to be. If you really want to know what CRUSADERS is all about, read it.

Sorry for the lengthy post - and believe me the last thing I want is to alienate any more people over pointless / baseless polemics.

Hey, Olivier/ Minotaurians. Welcome to the conversation.

You are correct that context is important, and "Crusader" has been used in a non-offensive way for a very long time. Your examples of "Caped Crusader" (A fitting reference since this is a superhero game) is an excellent one.
But the tactic of social justice activism is to take the most offensive reading of any term and socially beat down the user of the term as an example to others. It's pure, mean spirited bullying for power's sake.
As an American/English speaker, I think your choice of title is just fine, and I hope you stick to your guns, because if you give these types of people an inch, they'll never stop harassing you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on July 14, 2022, 04:57:12 AM
Hello everyone.

I'm Olivier Legrand (author of CRUSADERS) and, while I have no intention of actively joining this discussion, I would like to clarify a few things - not regarding my completely groundless ban from RPGnet (which has left me completely dejected and is a fine example of self-righteous hypocrisy, especially considering the fact that the "mod posting as user" who gratuitously attacked me got scott-free - and BTW the photo from the Chinese Cultural Revolution is indeed quite a fitting reference...) but about my choice of title for the game.

I'm partly doing this because John Kim, someone from whom I have the deepest respect, has posted on this thread and I wouldn't want him to have any misconception about my game.

As some of you might know, I'm French. And I (naively ?) thought that "Crusader", in English, predominantly had the following meaning (the "n1°" one):
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/crusader?q=crusader

I could provide other links to other dictionaries but I'm sure you get my point. I had also come to associate the word with the superheroic genre because of various references (Batman described as the "caped crusader", the Crusaders superteam in that old V&V classic scenario etc. - and BTW I notice that "caped crusader" is still being used and widely understood in a non-controversial way: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14681596/). I was also thinking of phrases like "human rights crusader" etc.

Of course, I'm fully aware of the word's etymology but in my mind there was no problem since context was everything. As for myself (if you really want to know I'm a hardcore atheist), I consider the Crusades to be a horrendous historical episode (one among many others) SO PLEASE don't make my game (which is about 1980s superheroes...) into some kind of unwilling flag-bearer for an ideology it has nothing to do with (and that I personally consider opposite to my personal values). This would only double the pain caused by the RPGnet situation: senselessly attacked on RPGnet and then wrongfully 'championed' on the RPGsite, as just another episode of the sites war...

Please have mercy on me. Please don't drag my game into this.

The irony of this is that, had I written the game in French, I would never have called it "Croisé" (the French word for "crusader") because in French its only meaning is religious / historical - I would have scratched my head to find another title, probably something with "héros" in it.

To be completely honest, I thought that, in English, the word 'Crusader' was now completely divorced from its more specific, historical original meaning (again, context...) - just like, say, "Avengers" does not necessarily express some kind of enthusiasm for rough justice or the "Vigilantes" in V&V does not constitute an endorsement of real-world vigilantism or "Superman" is not a nod to the Nazis übermenschen (as the French philosopher Sartre wrongfully believed back in the 50s).

I won't change the title of the game (why should I?) but the last thing I want is for it to become the symbol of something that it is not and was never intended to be. If you really want to know what CRUSADERS is all about, read it.

Sorry for the lengthy post - and believe me the last thing I want is to alienate any more people over pointless / baseless polemics.

  Here is the thing, no one here even for an instant thought you were speaking about the middle ages when you used the word crusader.   We did poke about how the word may have some bad history, history is just that though in the past.   So I am certain no one here thought you used the word as an "own" for people in some cryptographic way, we just like to point out how that bunch over on that site always takes one angle to paint a picture.   I say do not worry about explaining why you used a word all sane people understand and just keep producing high quality products.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Spinachcat on July 14, 2022, 04:59:47 AM
Olivier, I am sorry you were banned from RPG.net, but please be proud that you MAY have won the Banned Hall of Fame Award for having been banned for literally the stupidest reason imaginable.

Crusader is a GREAT name for superhero RPG. The first edition demonstration for how to build PCs in the Hero System and play Champions actually used a faux-Batman clone called Crusader, a long time fan favorite.

No one seriously thinks your game is about Catholic warriors killing Muslims. Absolutely zero. On RPG.net, the imbecile brigade worships their false outrage. Here, we love to mock them so "Deus Vult" memes are just for the laugh.

I'm glad you're sticking with the Crusader title. Please call upon the Mazes & Minotaurs fandom to help promote Crusader in both PDF and POD (when available).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on July 14, 2022, 05:09:54 AM
   Speaking as if Jihad and Crusade, even in the middle ages, have some equivalence is pretty ignorant of history.  I can also say EVEN if they were exactly the same, expecting western culture that has the roots from which crusades sprang (and likely those crusades SAVED western culture) to worry about what Jihadist sorts think of the word crusade is dumb.   The framing and perspective is as if you are the Watcher from marvel comics and not a DIRECT beneficiary of Western culture being NOT overrun thanks to the crusades. 

  That said for any dipshits so offended by the word Crusade they would never utter it in a positive context, the modern context of Crusader IS A DO GOODER.  PERIOD. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on July 14, 2022, 07:26:23 AM
   Speaking as if Jihad and Crusade, even in the middle ages, have some equivalence is pretty ignorant of history.  I can also say EVEN if they were exactly the same, expecting western culture that has the roots from which crusades sprang (and likely those crusades SAVED western culture) to worry about what Jihadist sorts think of the word crusade is dumb.   The framing and perspective is as if you are the Watcher from marvel comics and not a DIRECT beneficiary of Western culture being NOT overrun thanks to the crusades. 

  That said for any dipshits so offended by the word Crusade they would never utter it in a positive context, the modern context of Crusader IS A DO GOODER.  PERIOD.

The funny thing is while the leftists rage about the word crusader, if you were to bring up the fact that terrorism is associated with the word jihad, you'd get a response from them along the lines of, "No, see, but but see... the literal translation is 'struggle,' man. You just lack nuance." Even knowing full-well how islamists themselves use the word to describe fighting infidels and enslaving them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 14, 2022, 08:24:45 AM
Hello everyone.

I'm Olivier Legrand (author of CRUSADERS) and, while I have no intention of actively joining this discussion, I would like to clarify a few things - not regarding my completely groundless ban from RPGnet (which has left me completely dejected and is a fine example of self-righteous hypocrisy, especially considering the fact that the "mod posting as user" who gratuitously attacked me got scott-free - and BTW the photo from the Chinese Cultural Revolution is indeed quite a fitting reference...) but about my choice of title for the game.

I'm partly doing this because John Kim, someone from whom I have the deepest respect, has posted on this thread and I wouldn't want him to have any misconception about my game.

As some of you might know, I'm French. And I (naively ?) thought that "Crusader", in English, predominantly had the following meaning (the "n1°" one):
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/crusader?q=crusader

I could provide other links to other dictionaries but I'm sure you get my point. I had also come to associate the word with the superheroic genre because of various references (Batman described as the "caped crusader", the Crusaders superteam in that old V&V classic scenario etc. - and BTW I notice that "caped crusader" is still being used and widely understood in a non-controversial way: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14681596/). I was also thinking of phrases like "human rights crusader" etc.

Of course, I'm fully aware of the word's etymology but in my mind there was no problem since context was everything. As for myself (if you really want to know I'm a hardcore atheist), I consider the Crusades to be a horrendous historical episode (one among many others) SO PLEASE don't make my game (which is about 1980s superheroes...) into some kind of unwilling flag-bearer for an ideology it has nothing to do with (and that I personally consider opposite to my personal values). This would only double the pain caused by the RPGnet situation: senselessly attacked on RPGnet and then wrongfully 'championed' on the RPGsite, as just another episode of the sites war...

Please have mercy on me. Please don't drag my game into this.

The irony of this is that, had I written the game in French, I would never have called it "Croisé" (the French word for "crusader") because in French its only meaning is religious / historical - I would have scratched my head to find another title, probably something with "héros" in it.

To be completely honest, I thought that, in English, the word 'Crusader' was now completely divorced from its more specific, historical original meaning (again, context...) - just like, say, "Avengers" does not necessarily express some kind of enthusiasm for rough justice or the "Vigilantes" in V&V does not constitute an endorsement of real-world vigilantism or "Superman" is not a nod to the Nazis übermenschen (as the French philosopher Sartre wrongfully believed back in the 50s).

I won't change the title of the game (why should I?) but the last thing I want is for it to become the symbol of something that it is not and was never intended to be. If you really want to know what CRUSADERS is all about, read it.

Sorry for the lengthy post - and believe me the last thing I want is to alienate any more people over pointless / baseless polemics.
I appreciate your candor and willingness to speak out, sir. However, I want to address something:

Just because you are not interested in the cultural war does not mean it is not interested in you.

No one here hates you. You have done us no wrongs. We are not wild-eyed raging lunatics (no matter what TBP inmates might tell you). We just wanna play games.

But there is a very unpleasant group that does not want to play games. They want to shape culture to their specifications. And they're not shy about the tools they use.

I'm sorry you've been dragged into this. I'm sorry if you're hurting because a labor of love has suddenly turned into a battleground. You have my utmost sympathy.

The only question now is: what do you do?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Minotaurians on July 14, 2022, 08:31:05 AM
What do I do?  Well I intend to post one last message as Olivier Legrand on RPGnet once the ban has been lifted, using some bits from my previous post here but with some extra comments and statements. Burning bridges and all that...

Thanks for your support and understanding.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on July 14, 2022, 11:32:46 AM
What do I do?  Well I intend to post one last message as Olivier Legrand on RPGnet once the ban has been lifted, using some bits from my previous post here but with some extra comments and statements. Burning bridges and all that...

Thanks for your support and understanding.

Not one inch.  Hold the line.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 14, 2022, 01:33:18 PM
What do I do?  Well I intend to post one last message as Olivier Legrand on RPGnet once the ban has been lifted, using some bits from my previous post here but with some extra comments and statements. Burning bridges and all that...

Thanks for your support and understanding.

Speaking as a Christian, no one, and I mean no one here thinks you used the name with a religious connotation, because we're not lunatics.

But, some love to go on a tangent and we do love to get into fights. The infighting isn't about your game tho.

You're a hard core atheist... So what? Is your game any good? Are your political/religious ideas being shoved down the reader/GM/Player's throat? If you answer YES and No then no one cares what you believe, where you come from, what's your color or where do you like to put your penis in (as long as it's not children).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Minotaurians on July 14, 2022, 01:40:17 PM
Well... having taken some time to think and listen to some friends advice, I don't think I'll relaunch the stupid polemics. The last thing I want is to get dragged into an endless, pointless fight where I'll always be at a disadvantage. For now I'll let the fire die down. I've got better things to do with my life.

I've said my piece. Thanks for your understanding.

 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on July 14, 2022, 03:14:48 PM
What do I do?  Well I intend to post one last message as Olivier Legrand on RPGnet once the ban has been lifted, using some bits from my previous post here but with some extra comments and statements. Burning bridges and all that...

Thanks for your support and understanding.

There are different considerations to be made about speaking out on principle and so forth but probably worth considering that your post will probably drop off by the wayside. However raising it as an issue when your ban runs out will likely just get you permabanned (not an issue) and then subsequently painted as some kind of facist which may impact subsequent sales of your game. This would be most unfair.  I'd just let them be. Let them sit in their echo chamber and get on with your life.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Minotaurians on July 14, 2022, 03:20:07 PM
Yes - that's the conclusion I've come to. Thanks.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 14, 2022, 03:47:42 PM
Probably because Jihadis have a recent and current association with terrible acts.

Interestingly there is a philosophical movement in some parts of Islam that argues the word jihad can and should be taken in the same sense many now use "crusade", i.e. any kind of conscious struggle for a good cause, both internally and externally, and by peaceful means as well as (when necessary) violent.  (EDIT: As 3CatCircus notes above.)

Their likelihood of succeeding in this advocacy with their more belligerent co-religionists, sadly, I cannot think very high, but we can always hope.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 14, 2022, 05:04:31 PM
What do I do?  Well I intend to post one last message as Olivier Legrand on RPGnet once the ban has been lifted, using some bits from my previous post here but with some extra comments and statements. Burning bridges and all that...

Thanks for your support and understanding.

There are different considerations to be made about speaking out on principle and so forth but probably worth considering that your post will probably drop off by the wayside whereas raising it as an issue when your bam runs out will likely just get you permabanned (not an issue) and then subsequently painted as some kind of facist which may impact subsequent sales of your game which would be unfair.  I'd just let them be, and sit in their echo chamber and get on with your life.

Sheit. I expect he'll be pre-banned for Offsite Behavior after this thread.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on July 14, 2022, 05:29:03 PM
What do I do?  Well I intend to post one last message as Olivier Legrand on RPGnet once the ban has been lifted, using some bits from my previous post here but with some extra comments and statements. Burning bridges and all that...

Thanks for your support and understanding.

There are different considerations to be made about speaking out on principle and so forth but probably worth considering that your post will probably drop off by the wayside whereas raising it as an issue when your bam runs out will likely just get you permabanned (not an issue) and then subsequently painted as some kind of facist which may impact subsequent sales of your game which would be unfair.  I'd just let them be, and sit in their echo chamber and get on with your life.

Sheit. I expect he'll be pre-banned for Offsite Behavior after this thread.
I kind of doubt any of the mods/admins look at this thread. Maybe earlier, but now I think they’d honestly be afraid of getting contaminated by badthink.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 14, 2022, 05:52:05 PM
I don't think I'll relaunch the stupid polemics. The last thing I want is to get dragged into an endless, pointless fight where I'll always be at a disadvantage.

I would agree with this choice as well, at least for now. There's no point in picking a fight before you absolutely feel you have to, and it's irrelevant to the quality of the game.

The best answer to people wanting to give you a hard time about the name is either to simply flat-out ignore it or to say politely, "Thank you, I'll take that under advisement," and then do what you were going to do anyway.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on July 14, 2022, 06:08:17 PM
What do I do?  Well I intend to post one last message as Olivier Legrand on RPGnet once the ban has been lifted, using some bits from my previous post here but with some extra comments and statements. Burning bridges and all that...

Thanks for your support and understanding.

There are different considerations to be made about speaking out on principle and so forth but probably worth considering that your post will probably drop off by the wayside whereas raising it as an issue when your bam runs out will likely just get you permabanned (not an issue) and then subsequently painted as some kind of facist which may impact subsequent sales of your game which would be unfair.  I'd just let them be, and sit in their echo chamber and get on with your life.

Sheit. I expect he'll be pre-banned for Offsite Behavior after this thread.

Big Brother is watching indeed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 14, 2022, 06:16:39 PM
What do I do?  Well I intend to post one last message as Olivier Legrand on RPGnet once the ban has been lifted, using some bits from my previous post here but with some extra comments and statements. Burning bridges and all that...

Thanks for your support and understanding.

There are different considerations to be made about speaking out on principle and so forth but probably worth considering that your post will probably drop off by the wayside whereas raising it as an issue when your bam runs out will likely just get you permabanned (not an issue) and then subsequently painted as some kind of facist which may impact subsequent sales of your game which would be unfair.  I'd just let them be, and sit in their echo chamber and get on with your life.

Sheit. I expect he'll be pre-banned for Offsite Behavior after this thread.

Big Brother is watching indeed.

I registered there but I never posted, because, no matter what I'll post ("I do like Tom & Jerry. What system is the best to play something similar to those cartoons?") I'll be banned on the grounds of "This is your first post here AND..."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on July 14, 2022, 07:26:36 PM
I'm partly doing this because John Kim, someone from whom I have the deepest respect, has posted on this thread and I wouldn't want him to have any misconception about my game.

As some of you might know, I'm French. And I (naively ?) thought that "Crusader", in English, predominantly had the following meaning (the "n1°" one):
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/crusader?q=crusader

I could provide other links to other dictionaries but I'm sure you get my point. I had also come to associate the word with the superheroic genre because of various references (Batman described as the "caped crusader", the Crusaders superteam in that old V&V classic scenario etc. - and BTW I notice that "caped crusader" is still being used and widely understood in a non-controversial way

Hi, Minotaurians/Olivier. Thanks for the note. I picked up a copy of your game. It looks interesting, though I don't think I'll be using it. I'm a little surprised at the percentile dice, given that the core mechanic is mathematically equivalent to d20 + stat vs opposing stat + 10. Also the random powers with point-buy attributes, though there are plenty of choices within the random powers.

As far as the title "crusader"... I think you're welcome to debate it, and don't think you should be banned for your views. However, in modern times, crusade and crusader are often used with a negative connotation, by both the left and the right politically. When I search on Fox News, I find "crusade" used in phrases like "the left's censorship crusade" (ref) (https://video.foxnews.com/v/6305122426001) or the "planned, purposeful and premeditated crusade carried out by the Biden administration" (ref) (https://www.foxnews.com/media/stephen-miller-joe-biden-complicit-global-trafficking-largest-scale-human-history) and "social justice crusade" - all with negative connotations. Crusade can imply going to war over a zealously held and/or irrational belief.

In published comics, the Marvel character named "Crusader" is Arthur Blackwell, who channeled his medieval ancestor who fought in the Crusades, and his first action was to try to kill Thor for blasphemy. "Caped crusader" was coined for Batman, I think for the campy 1960s TV show, but there the word choice was for alliteration, while "crusader" has a different connotation. "Villains & Vigilantes" also makes use of alliteration (and similarity to D&D). However, just calling a game "Vigilantes" wouldn't have the same connotation as V&V. Similarly, the Hero System magazine "Adventurers Club" also had a regular column called "Crooks & Crusaders" which relies on alliteration, but that isn't the same as using "Crusaders" by itself.


Of course, I'm fully aware of the word's etymology but in my mind there was no problem since context was everything. As for myself (if you really want to know I'm a hardcore atheist), I consider the Crusades to be a horrendous historical episode (one among many others) SO PLEASE don't make my game (which is about 1980s superheroes...) into some kind of unwilling flag-bearer for an ideology it has nothing to do with (and that I personally consider opposite to my personal values). This would only double the pain caused by the RPGnet situation: senselessly attacked on RPGnet and then wrongfully 'championed' on the RPGsite, as just another episode of the sites war...

Fair enough. I'll see about starting a superhero game thread in the RPG section including Crusaders, to put focus on the game rather than the title.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on July 14, 2022, 07:43:40 PM
I don't follow RPGnet at all, so I don't have any comment about them.

Speaking on the use of "crusader" in general, I feel like the disconnect among people I know is using it as generic "do-gooder" -- when the equivalent term "jihadist" has the opposite connotation. I'm a Christian, but I don't see the Crusades as a positive example of Christianity, like witch burnings or sales of indulgences. Launching holy wars to conquer other peoples certainly isn't unique to Christianity, but that doesn't mean "crusader" should be used as a generic label for "good guy".

Even among my more left-wing gamer friends, I can't picture them having a superhero group called the "Jihadists". They might avoid such a name for villains, but they wouldn't use the term as generic good guys.

Yeah, how dare the Europeans fight to liberate themselves from the islamists! The Crusades were almost all wars of retaliation and liberation from over 400 years of islamic oppression.

fuck your milketoast "christianity" always ready to make excuses for the worst types and to compare Christianity with Islam.

After the islamists did their Jihad and conquered Europe and demanded the sons and daughters for slaves, one to make eunuchs and the others for sexual slaves mind you, Europe made war against them.

Why is it that you leftoids always are (or feign to be) so ignorant of history?

Greetings!

Excellent, GeekyBugle!

Yes, the Liberals are typically pathetically ignorant. They have been indoctrinated, and brainwashed. There is a laundry list of positions they have been spoon-fed on--Western Civilization is bad; America is evil and racist; Corporations are greedy and evil, and Capitalism has many problems that mean it should be replaced--or supervised much more and harder by a over-arching federal government; Christianity is anti-science, and filled with hatred, bigotry, misogyny, and intolerance; Patriarchy is evil, and has oppressed women.

As a corollary to the aforementioned, Feminism is great; Socialism and Communism are misunderstood and haven't really been tried right; Paganism is mysterious and wonderful; as a secondary, almost any religion is mysterious and profound, and should be respected--except for Christianity. Of course, the Liberals get dripping wet over other religions like Judaism and especially Islam. They then have proceeded to embrace a fabricated, heretical Frankenstein-like construct that is the Liberal "Christian" churches. These are all deluded, deceived people, swallowing lies, bullshit, and false doctrine left and right. The Liberal "Christians" are Barney Rainbow cultists. They want a happy, hippy-like, all-loving, corrupt fucking church that approves of every kind of debauchery and sin that they love to embrace. Meanwhile, there is "No judgement" in their fake, heretical churches. Che Gueverra, Karl Marx, Simone Bolivar, Foucult, Derida, all of the depraved French "philosophers", virtually any Feminist author, and any black, brown, or other minority scholar, author, "artist", "researcher" and gaggles of other pseudo-scholars, intellectuals, and grifters, all are hailed as deep authorities and welcomed as celebrities with having profound insights into history, religion, politics, society, SEX, SEX, SEX!, and anything else they come up with. Amazing how corrupting sex and sexual relationships is to Liberals. They frequently insert it into whatever curriculum as a salient feature, and hammer away at corrupting and brainwashing students into embracing the Liberal views on sex and sexuality.

That is what Liberals do.

Liberals also are corrupt and don't know a fucking thing about real history. It is all been specially baked weed brownies for them. Of course they swallow down the narrative that the Crusades were a greedy, evil atrocity, promoted by an evil, hate-filled Christian Church, all prosecuted against sweet, innocent Muslims!

Fucking morons need to take the Muslim salami out of their mouths and get some real education. The Crusades saved Europe from Muslim invasion and domination, and Christians especially, should be proud of what their ancestors did to defend the faith! And, incidentally, everything else along with it from being crushed by the Muslims.

Professor Thomas F. Madden, a prominent medieval scholar atSaint Louis University, besides writing many other books on medieval and classical topics, wrote "The Crusades Controversy--Setting the Record Straight". In his excellent book, he discusses precisely how the Muslims had been raiding Europe, raping, enslaving, and seeking to invade and subjugate Europe for the previous 400 years--and that the Crusades were a defensive program, a strong counter-attack by the Christian leadership of the day to save Christianity and Europe from the Muslim tide. He destroys the pet Liberal arguments that "Christianity is bad, the Crusades were evil, and the Muslims were innocent." All fucking destroyed, my friend.

Stay strong, Hermano!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on July 14, 2022, 08:22:06 PM
SEX, SEX, SEX!

FINALLY! A religionwith something for everyone.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 14, 2022, 09:10:45 PM
I don't follow RPGnet at all, so I don't have any comment about them.

Speaking on the use of "crusader" in general, I feel like the disconnect among people I know is using it as generic "do-gooder" -- when the equivalent term "jihadist" has the opposite connotation. I'm a Christian, but I don't see the Crusades as a positive example of Christianity, like witch burnings or sales of indulgences. Launching holy wars to conquer other peoples certainly isn't unique to Christianity, but that doesn't mean "crusader" should be used as a generic label for "good guy".

Even among my more left-wing gamer friends, I can't picture them having a superhero group called the "Jihadists". They might avoid such a name for villains, but they wouldn't use the term as generic good guys.

Yeah, how dare the Europeans fight to liberate themselves from the islamists! The Crusades were almost all wars of retaliation and liberation from over 400 years of islamic oppression.

fuck your milketoast "christianity" always ready to make excuses for the worst types and to compare Christianity with Islam.

After the islamists did their Jihad and conquered Europe and demanded the sons and daughters for slaves, one to make eunuchs and the others for sexual slaves mind you, Europe made war against them.

Why is it that you leftoids always are (or feign to be) so ignorant of history?

Greetings!

Excellent, GeekyBugle!

Yes, the Liberals are typically pathetically ignorant. They have been indoctrinated, and brainwashed. There is a laundry list of positions they have been spoon-fed on--Western Civilization is bad; America is evil and racist; Corporations are greedy and evil, and Capitalism has many problems that mean it should be replaced--or supervised much more and harder by a over-arching federal government; Christianity is anti-science, and filled with hatred, bigotry, misogyny, and intolerance; Patriarchy is evil, and has oppressed women.

As a corollary to the aforementioned, Feminism is great; Socialism and Communism are misunderstood and haven't really been tried right; Paganism is mysterious and wonderful; as a secondary, almost any religion is mysterious and profound, and should be respected--except for Christianity. Of course, the Liberals get dripping wet over other religions like Judaism and especially Islam. They then have proceeded to embrace a fabricated, heretical Frankenstein-like construct that is the Liberal "Christian" churches. These are all deluded, deceived people, swallowing lies, bullshit, and false doctrine left and right. The Liberal "Christians" are Barney Rainbow cultists. They want a happy, hippy-like, all-loving, corrupt fucking church that approves of every kind of debauchery and sin that they love to embrace. Meanwhile, there is "No judgement" in their fake, heretical churches. Che Gueverra, Karl Marx, Simone Bolivar, Foucult, Derida, all of the depraved French "philosophers", virtually any Feminist author, and any black, brown, or other minority scholar, author, "artist", "researcher" and gaggles of other pseudo-scholars, intellectuals, and grifters, all are hailed as deep authorities and welcomed as celebrities with having profound insights into history, religion, politics, society, SEX, SEX, SEX!, and anything else they come up with. Amazing how corrupting sex and sexual relationships is to Liberals. They frequently insert it into whatever curriculum as a salient feature, and hammer away at corrupting and brainwashing students into embracing the Liberal views on sex and sexuality.

That is what Liberals do.

Liberals also are corrupt and don't know a fucking thing about real history. It is all been specially baked weed brownies for them. Of course they swallow down the narrative that the Crusades were a greedy, evil atrocity, promoted by an evil, hate-filled Christian Church, all prosecuted against sweet, innocent Muslims!

Fucking morons need to take the Muslim salami out of their mouths and get some real education. The Crusades saved Europe from Muslim invasion and domination, and Christians especially, should be proud of what their ancestors did to defend the faith! And, incidentally, everything else along with it from being crushed by the Muslims.

Professor Thomas F. Madden, a prominent medieval scholar atSaint Louis University, besides writing many other books on medieval and classical topics, wrote "The Crusades Controversy--Setting the Record Straight". In his excellent book, he discusses precisely how the Muslims had been raiding Europe, raping, enslaving, and seeking to invade and subjugate Europe for the previous 400 years--and that the Crusades were a defensive program, a strong counter-attack by the Christian leadership of the day to save Christianity and Europe from the Muslim tide. He destroys the pet Liberal arguments that "Christianity is bad, the Crusades were evil, and the Muslims were innocent." All fucking destroyed, my friend.

Stay strong, Hermano!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Greetings brother!

You know what's funny Shark?

Even back when I was an atheist I knew enough history to know the Crusades were wars of liberation/retaliation, because I knew that Spain had been under muslim oppression for a long ass time.

I also knew that the muslims demanded the sons for eunuchs and the daughters for sex slaves along with money.

You wanna know where my and my sons curly hair comes from? We descend from Abdallah Muhammad bin Ali, or Muhammad XII, the last moorish king of Grenade.

Spain was under muslim rule for approx 800 years, from 711 to 1492.

It's very easy to minimize the terror they imparted when you know jack shit about it, like JhKim.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on July 14, 2022, 09:23:07 PM
To be fair, I think Crusaders is a pretty decent name for a game based on 1980s aesthetics. I don’t think anybody else would have batted an eye or protested the title back then, or if someone did they would not be taken seriously.

Also, Arachne has always been a loser, no need to take her (him?) seriously.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on July 14, 2022, 09:55:19 PM
Here's my low-crunch superhero systems thread in the RPG forum:

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/low-crunch-superhero-systems/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on July 15, 2022, 02:37:02 AM
I don't think I'll relaunch the stupid polemics. The last thing I want is to get dragged into an endless, pointless fight where I'll always be at a disadvantage.

I would agree with this choice as well, at least for now. There's no point in picking a fight before you absolutely feel you have to, and it's irrelevant to the quality of the game.

The best answer to people wanting to give you a hard time about the name is either to simply flat-out ignore it or to say politely, "Thank you, I'll take that under advisement," and then do what you were going to do anyway.

This is the best advice except only ignore it.

This is pretty funny. A new thread has been started about the game, wanting to talk about it despite having banned the author from uhm...talking about their game.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/take-two-crusaders-supers-rpg.899494/

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on July 15, 2022, 08:57:18 AM
Hello everyone.

I'm Olivier Legrand (author of CRUSADERS) and, while I have no intention of actively joining this discussion, I would like to clarify a few things - not regarding my completely groundless ban from RPGnet (which has left me completely dejected and is a fine example of self-righteous hypocrisy, especially considering the fact that the "mod posting as user" who gratuitously attacked me got scott-free - and BTW the photo from the Chinese Cultural Revolution is indeed quite a fitting reference...) but about my choice of title for the game.

I'm partly doing this because John Kim, someone from whom I have the deepest respect, has posted on this thread and I wouldn't want him to have any misconception about my game.

As some of you might know, I'm French. And I (naively ?) thought that "Crusader", in English, predominantly had the following meaning (the "n1°" one):
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/crusader?q=crusader

I could provide other links to other dictionaries but I'm sure you get my point. I had also come to associate the word with the superheroic genre because of various references (Batman described as the "caped crusader", the Crusaders superteam in that old V&V classic scenario etc. - and BTW I notice that "caped crusader" is still being used and widely understood in a non-controversial way: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14681596/). I was also thinking of phrases like "human rights crusader" etc.

Of course, I'm fully aware of the word's etymology but in my mind there was no problem since context was everything. As for myself (if you really want to know I'm a hardcore atheist), I consider the Crusades to be a horrendous historical episode (one among many others) SO PLEASE don't make my game (which is about 1980s superheroes...) into some kind of unwilling flag-bearer for an ideology it has nothing to do with (and that I personally consider opposite to my personal values). This would only double the pain caused by the RPGnet situation: senselessly attacked on RPGnet and then wrongfully 'championed' on the RPGsite, as just another episode of the sites war...

Please have mercy on me. Please don't drag my game into this.

The irony of this is that, had I written the game in French, I would never have called it "Croisé" (the French word for "crusader") because in French its only meaning is religious / historical - I would have scratched my head to find another title, probably something with "héros" in it.

To be completely honest, I thought that, in English, the word 'Crusader' was now completely divorced from its more specific, historical original meaning (again, context...) - just like, say, "Avengers" does not necessarily express some kind of enthusiasm for rough justice or the "Vigilantes" in V&V does not constitute an endorsement of real-world vigilantism or "Superman" is not a nod to the Nazis übermenschen (as the French philosopher Sartre wrongfully believed back in the 50s).

I won't change the title of the game (why should I?) but the last thing I want is for it to become the symbol of something that it is not and was never intended to be. If you really want to know what CRUSADERS is all about, read it.

Sorry for the lengthy post - and believe me the last thing I want is to alienate any more people over pointless / baseless polemics.

Well, hopefully you'll learn your lesson, especially since jhkim has already thrown you under the bus upthread.  SJWs always care more about their status in the group more than anything else, so he needs to attack your use of the term "crusader" even on this website, lest the crazy brigade see it here and carry it over elsewhere.  In the modern world of woke, you are either the attacker or the target; there are no neutrals (and the woke will tell you this directly).  Jhkim wants to avoid the crosshairs, so he'll chide you for your verbiage even when he knows you didn't mean anything by it.

See, you need to have the courage of your convictions.  You need to be able to say, "That's not what I meant, and you're a disingenuous twat for taking it that way.  It shows that you are the warped one!"  Because what has your mealy-mouthed rationalizations gotten you?  Not forgiveness.  Not understanding.  Just discarded, so that everyone else can make sure their on the "right" side of this.  You don't defend; you push right through and keep doing what you want.  The worst thing you can do is surrender (a tough lesson for a Frenchman, but, hey, everyone can learn)...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on July 15, 2022, 08:57:26 AM
I don't think I'll relaunch the stupid polemics. The last thing I want is to get dragged into an endless, pointless fight where I'll always be at a disadvantage.

I would agree with this choice as well, at least for now. There's no point in picking a fight before you absolutely feel you have to, and it's irrelevant to the quality of the game.

The best answer to people wanting to give you a hard time about the name is either to simply flat-out ignore it or to say politely, "Thank you, I'll take that under advisement," and then do what you were going to do anyway.

This is the best advice except only ignore it.

This is pretty funny. A new thread has been started about the game, wanting to talk about it despite having banned the author from uhm...talking about their game.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/take-two-crusaders-supers-rpg.899494/
At least most of the posters are sticking to discussing the mechanics of the game, or at least their opinions on them, and they don't have too much to say in favor of the mechanics.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on July 15, 2022, 09:02:56 AM
Hello everyone.

I'm Olivier Legrand (author of CRUSADERS) and, while I have no intention of actively joining this discussion, I would like to clarify a few things - not regarding my completely groundless ban from RPGnet (which has left me completely dejected and is a fine example of self-righteous hypocrisy, especially considering the fact that the "mod posting as user" who gratuitously attacked me got scott-free - and BTW the photo from the Chinese Cultural Revolution is indeed quite a fitting reference...) but about my choice of title for the game.

I'm partly doing this because John Kim, someone from whom I have the deepest respect, has posted on this thread and I wouldn't want him to have any misconception about my game.

As some of you might know, I'm French. And I (naively ?) thought that "Crusader", in English, predominantly had the following meaning (the "n1°" one):
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/crusader?q=crusader

I could provide other links to other dictionaries but I'm sure you get my point. I had also come to associate the word with the superheroic genre because of various references (Batman described as the "caped crusader", the Crusaders superteam in that old V&V classic scenario etc. - and BTW I notice that "caped crusader" is still being used and widely understood in a non-controversial way: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14681596/). I was also thinking of phrases like "human rights crusader" etc.

Of course, I'm fully aware of the word's etymology but in my mind there was no problem since context was everything. As for myself (if you really want to know I'm a hardcore atheist), I consider the Crusades to be a horrendous historical episode (one among many others) SO PLEASE don't make my game (which is about 1980s superheroes...) into some kind of unwilling flag-bearer for an ideology it has nothing to do with (and that I personally consider opposite to my personal values). This would only double the pain caused by the RPGnet situation: senselessly attacked on RPGnet and then wrongfully 'championed' on the RPGsite, as just another episode of the sites war...

Please have mercy on me. Please don't drag my game into this.

The irony of this is that, had I written the game in French, I would never have called it "Croisé" (the French word for "crusader") because in French its only meaning is religious / historical - I would have scratched my head to find another title, probably something with "héros" in it.

To be completely honest, I thought that, in English, the word 'Crusader' was now completely divorced from its more specific, historical original meaning (again, context...) - just like, say, "Avengers" does not necessarily express some kind of enthusiasm for rough justice or the "Vigilantes" in V&V does not constitute an endorsement of real-world vigilantism or "Superman" is not a nod to the Nazis übermenschen (as the French philosopher Sartre wrongfully believed back in the 50s).

I won't change the title of the game (why should I?) but the last thing I want is for it to become the symbol of something that it is not and was never intended to be. If you really want to know what CRUSADERS is all about, read it.

Sorry for the lengthy post - and believe me the last thing I want is to alienate any more people over pointless / baseless polemics.

Well, hopefully you'll learn your lesson, especially since jhkim has already thrown you under the bus upthread.  SJWs always care more about their status in the group more than anything else, so he needs to attack your use of the term "crusader" even on this website, lest the crazy brigade see it here and carry it over elsewhere.  In the modern world of woke, you are either the attacker or the target; there are no neutrals (and the woke will tell you this directly).  Jhkim wants to avoid the crosshairs, so he'll chide you for your verbiage even when he knows you didn't mean anything by it.

See, you need to have the courage of your convictions.  You need to be able to say, "That's not what I meant, and you're a disingenuous twat for taking it that way.  It shows that you are the warped one!"  Because what has your mealy-mouthed rationalizations gotten you?  Not forgiveness.  Not understanding.  Just discarded, so that everyone else can make sure their on the "right" side of this.  You don't defend; you push right through and keep doing what you want.  The worst thing you can do is surrender (a tough lesson for a Frenchman, but, hey, everyone can learn)...

  I think that is too much of a response...I think just asking the person if they are fucking stupid and then disregarding them completely is better.  The time for fuckwads honoring themselves around this idiot shit is drawing to an end.   Policing speech, castrating kids, and pushing a "morality" that has about zero morality in it will reach a breaking point.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Minotaurians on July 15, 2022, 09:53:45 AM
See, you need to have the courage of your convictions.  You need to be able to say, "That's not what I meant, and you're a disingenuous twat for taking it that way.  It shows that you are the warped one!" 

Well that's precisely what I did before I was banned.

Because what has your mealy-mouthed rationalizations gotten you?  Not forgiveness.  Not understanding.  Just discarded, so that everyone else can make sure their on the "right" side of this.  You don't defend; you push right through and keep doing what you want.  The worst thing you can do is surrender (a tough lesson for a Frenchman, but, hey, everyone can learn)...

For the record, I fail to see how I "surrendered" to anything.

Plus: no need to move on to personal insults. The slur about my nationality is especially pathetic  - and, incidentally, shows how ignorant you are about history but I won't bother trying to "rationalize" anything with you - I'll leave you with your own crass stupidity, pauvre imbécile.

Thanks to all those of you who showed support. I'm off.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on July 15, 2022, 10:54:57 AM
See, you need to have the courage of your convictions.  You need to be able to say, "That's not what I meant, and you're a disingenuous twat for taking it that way.  It shows that you are the warped one!" 

Well that's precisely what I did before I was banned.

Because what has your mealy-mouthed rationalizations gotten you?  Not forgiveness.  Not understanding.  Just discarded, so that everyone else can make sure their on the "right" side of this.  You don't defend; you push right through and keep doing what you want.  The worst thing you can do is surrender (a tough lesson for a Frenchman, but, hey, everyone can learn)...

For the record, I fail to see how I "surrendered" to anything.

Plus: no need to move on to personal insults. The slur about my nationality is especially pathetic  - and, incidentally, shows how ignorant you are about history but I won't bother trying to "rationalize" anything with you - I'll leave you with your own crass stupidity, pauvre imbécile.

Thanks to all those of you who showed support. I'm off.
Step one: Thicker skin.  That's why you will fail.  If you're worried about what they, or I, say, you've already lost.  Coming here to "explain" in the desperate attempt to sway the opinions of those who don't care is foolishness.   The jhkim-types don't care; you're just a means to an end.  The rest of us don't care; if you make a good game, we'll play it.  Trying to make everyone "understand" is a waste of time.   So toughen up.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 15, 2022, 11:42:32 AM
See, you need to have the courage of your convictions.  You need to be able to say, "That's not what I meant, and you're a disingenuous twat for taking it that way.  It shows that you are the warped one!" 

Well that's precisely what I did before I was banned.

Because what has your mealy-mouthed rationalizations gotten you?  Not forgiveness.  Not understanding.  Just discarded, so that everyone else can make sure their on the "right" side of this.  You don't defend; you push right through and keep doing what you want.  The worst thing you can do is surrender (a tough lesson for a Frenchman, but, hey, everyone can learn)...

For the record, I fail to see how I "surrendered" to anything.

Plus: no need to move on to personal insults. The slur about my nationality is especially pathetic  - and, incidentally, shows how ignorant you are about history but I won't bother trying to "rationalize" anything with you - I'll leave you with your own crass stupidity, pauvre imbécile.

Thanks to all those of you who showed support. I'm off.
Step one: Thicker skin.  That's why you will fail.  If you're worried about what they, or I, say, you've already lost.  Coming here to "explain" in the desperate attempt to sway the opinions of those who don't care is foolishness.   The jhkim-types don't care; you're just a means to an end.  The rest of us don't care; if you make a good game, we'll play it.  Trying to make everyone "understand" is a waste of time.   So toughen up.
" If you're worried about what they, or I, say, you've already lost."

...in a business where word of mouth is so important? I agree he needs to not let it get to him personally, but go run that line past Macris or Zak S and see what their reaction is.

On a side note, consider this: TBP is probably considered 'the' place for interaction with others regarding RPGs. This is why I despise it so, because of the example it sets.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 15, 2022, 04:05:53 PM
See, you need to have the courage of your convictions.  You need to be able to say, "That's not what I meant, and you're a disingenuous twat for taking it that way.  It shows that you are the warped one!" 

Well that's precisely what I did before I was banned.

This is the fundamental problem. Against an individual objector who genuinely, if mistakenly, thought the game's title might suggest the celebration of troublesome historical events, this kind of reproof might be appropriate and effective.

Unfortunately, the mod-enforced rules of TBP's discourse (to use the academic terminology) explicitly define claims of intersectionality-based offenses to be off limits from dismissal or disregard: the one thing you cannot say to someone who claims offense is, "That's not what I meant, and it's your problem if you took it that way; I'm not happy you're offended, but I'm not responsible for your feelings if you choose to be unreasonable." The point of a "safe space" is that people are forced to take responsibility for others' feelings if they want to participate in it, and the point of "social justice" is that the privileged don't get to decide what constitutes "reasonable" for the disadvantaged.

Argument has little weight with this level of epistemic closure -- not none, but seldom enough to be worth the effort. Better to demonstrate the courage of one's convictions by simply disengaging and building one's own audience elsewhere, I think.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 15, 2022, 04:28:00 PM
Get ready for your closeup, wmarshal.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wmarshal-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-thread-ban-arguing-in-bad-faith.899599/

There's the magic words: further sanctions pending.

Eirikrautha, you still think Minotaurians should've stuck it out in that fucking shitheap? Fuck no. Thicker skin won't save you from their rainbow-hued banhammers.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on July 15, 2022, 04:49:05 PM
Get ready for your closeup, wmarshal.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wmarshal-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-thread-ban-arguing-in-bad-faith.899599/

There's the magic words: further sanctions pending.

Eirikrautha, you still think Minotaurians should've stuck it out in that fucking shitheap? Fuck no. Thicker skin won't save you from their rainbow-hued banhammers.
It’s always been a question of when, not if. However, claiming I was arguing in bad faith when I was correctly pointing out that the US is a republic, and legitimately engaging with the other posters is more ridiculous than I expected. I was noting that claiming that the US not a republic is flatly incorrect. I was noting that to claim that the “US is a republic” is a dog whistle is also a dumb argument. I was hoping that some of them would make better arguments, and I think some of them started to, but “bad faith” can be claimed against any argument the TBP mods don’t like it seems. If stating the fact that the US is a republic gets me permabanned I’ll wear that permaban with honor.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on July 15, 2022, 05:23:41 PM
Hello everyone.

I'm Olivier Legrand (author of CRUSADERS) and, while I have no intention of actively joining this discussion, I would like to clarify a few things - not regarding my completely groundless ban from RPGnet (which has left me completely dejected and is a fine example of self-righteous hypocrisy, especially considering the fact that the "mod posting as user" who gratuitously attacked me got scott-free - and BTW the photo from the Chinese Cultural Revolution is indeed quite a fitting reference...) but about my choice of title for the game.

Just as long as we can still use your game to roleplay the taking back of the Holy land then its all good.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on July 15, 2022, 07:24:40 PM
So after 2 pages of discussion on what is the nature of a republic, where some of the users started to reply with different ways that a republic could function, acknowledging that the US is a republic and not trying to support the fiction that somehow the US is not a republic, the mod shuts down all discussion about republics in the thread as a tangent. I think the mod dislikes the discussion that followed because it is evidence I was not arguing in bad faith, but had engaged the posters constructively even if there would be some disagreements between myself and the other posters if I was allowed to post further in the thread. The nature of US gorvernance is hardly a great tangent away from a discussion on how voting is being handled in Wisconsin.

I think it reflects how TBP desperately needs discussions to be echo chambers. We don’t need people to seriously think on these topics, and practice forming useful arguments. We need people to easily go “Ra! Ra!” for their side, and engage in the Two Minutes of Hate at the drop of a hat.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on July 15, 2022, 10:59:23 PM
Get ready for your closeup, wmarshal.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wmarshal-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-thread-ban-arguing-in-bad-faith.899599/

There's the magic words: further sanctions pending.

Eirikrautha, you still think Minotaurians should've stuck it out in that fucking shitheap? Fuck no. Thicker skin won't save you from their rainbow-hued banhammers.

I never said he should have stuck it out.  In fact, my statement was the exact opposite.  He should have told them they were morons and wrong and then forgotten the whole place.  Not come to this site and try to whine out an explanation in the hopes that some of the posters there would read it here ("oh, senpai kim, please know I didn't mean it").  Fuck that noise.  It's bad enough that he felt the need to explain to people who don't care.  It's worse that, since he's banned there, he comes here to try and explain it to them.  It's pathetic...

Edit: And note he started his whole whine with the statement that he wasn't joining the discussion here.  He isn't interested in what we think about the name.  He's just hoping that some of the TBP crew will see this and forgive him.  That's superhero-level cuck right there...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 16, 2022, 12:48:28 PM
Get ready for your closeup, wmarshal.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wmarshal-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-thread-ban-arguing-in-bad-faith.899599/

There's the magic words: further sanctions pending.

Eirikrautha, you still think Minotaurians should've stuck it out in that fucking shitheap? Fuck no. Thicker skin won't save you from their rainbow-hued banhammers.

I never said he should have stuck it out.  In fact, my statement was the exact opposite.  He should have told them they were morons and wrong and then forgotten the whole place.  Not come to this site and try to whine out an explanation in the hopes that some of the posters there would read it here ("oh, senpai kim, please know I didn't mean it").  Fuck that noise.  It's bad enough that he felt the need to explain to people who don't care.  It's worse that, since he's banned there, he comes here to try and explain it to them.  It's pathetic...

Edit: And note he started his whole whine with the statement that he wasn't joining the discussion here.  He isn't interested in what we think about the name.  He's just hoping that some of the TBP crew will see this and forgive him.  That's superhero-level cuck right there...

Yes and no, he was distancing himself from us, and sotto voce saying we shouldn't "deffend" him or his game. Because we terribad people who constantly incurr in wrongthink.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Minotaurians on July 16, 2022, 04:07:08 PM
Yes and no, he was distancing himself from us, and sotto voce saying we shouldn't "deffend" him or his game. Because we terribad people who constantly incurr in wrongthink.

That's not what I wrote nor what I implied. Stop presuming please. I never came here for anybody to "defend" my game AND I had certainly no intention of discussing the Crusades; I just felt I had the right to intervene since my game was mentioned (but apparently I was wrong).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 16, 2022, 04:32:58 PM
I just felt I had the right to intervene since my game was mentioned (but apparently I was wrong).

The atmosphere here is generally more impatient, abrasive and aggressive than it is in other fora; there's nothing wrong with taking people's tones here with several grains of salt to taste.  We can definitely reassure you that a number of us share the negative experience of having been unfairly judged at TBP -- some of us remain angry enough at that that any response to that other than a hearty "eff yew" to the judgers feels insufficient.

The basic situation you're in right now, putting aside moralizing on either side, is that you're trying to promote a product the name of which has unfortunately run afoul of a negative reaction from one of the bigger RPG-centered web sites out there. It's not a question of "defending" the game per se directly to the complainants, because unfortunately TBP's policies make that impossible -- challenging a criticism claimed to be based in social justice concerns is not permitted -- but simply navigating that response, which will require deciding what your primary goal is.

If you want to make a business success of the game and don't think that's possible without promotion through TBP, you may have to make at least the appearance of conciliating to the complaints -- maybe a partial if not total name change (call it something like Champions & Crusaders, perhaps), or a promise to add some disclaimer text or write position-supporting supplements. (I would previously have advocated simply going silent for a few weeks and letting it be forgotten, but I'm less optimistic these days about people's willingness to trawl old posts for offensive material if they're peevy enough.)

If you really don't want to change the name or kowtow to these complaints, then you may have to reorient your promotion strategy around other sites and platforms.  (Not necessarily this one, which has some inescapable connotations of its own -- just being honest -- but there are a number of other places.) It is possible to do well without going through TBP, Pundit himself proves that, but it's an unfortunate brute reality, however unfair, that simply refusing to agree with SJ complaints is taken as reason enough to be treated as being on the Dark Side, so accepting that and moving forward is usually more productive.

I'm about to go buy a copy of the game myself, if that helps. Best of luck.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on July 16, 2022, 05:59:51 PM
Oh my! How entertaining!!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on July 16, 2022, 07:24:58 PM
If you really don't want to change the name or kowtow to these complaints, then you may have to reorient your promotion strategy around other sites and platforms.  (Not necessarily this one, which has some inescapable connotations of its own -- just being honest -- but there are a number of other places.)

   Olivier is doing well and getting a positive reception over at the RPG Pub, and has made some contacts there that might help with POD production.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on July 16, 2022, 07:33:55 PM
If you really don't want to change the name or kowtow to these complaints, then you may have to reorient your promotion strategy around other sites and platforms.  (Not necessarily this one, which has some inescapable connotations of its own -- just being honest -- but there are a number of other places.)

   Olivier is doing well and getting a positive reception over at the RPG Pub, and has made some contacts there that might help with POD production.

They aren’t any different than rpg.not overthere. Mods are legit tardies.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on July 16, 2022, 11:44:26 PM
Yes and no, he was distancing himself from us, and sotto voce saying we shouldn't "deffend" him or his game. Because we terribad people who constantly incurr in wrongthink.

That's not what I wrote nor what I implied. Stop presuming please. I never came here for anybody to "defend" my game AND I had certainly no intention of discussing the Crusades; I just felt I had the right to intervene since my game was mentioned (but apparently I was wrong).

Sorry for inadvertently dragging you into this. I was just venting at yet another injustice at TBP.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 17, 2022, 12:28:51 AM
Yes and no, he was distancing himself from us, and sotto voce saying we shouldn't "deffend" him or his game. Because we terribad people who constantly incurr in wrongthink.

That's not what I wrote nor what I implied. Stop presuming please. I never came here for anybody to "defend" my game AND I had certainly no intention of discussing the Crusades; I just felt I had the right to intervene since my game was mentioned (but apparently I was wrong).

Intervene to what end? We all understood that your game had nothing to do with the historical Crusades and we were generally sympathetic to your run-in with RPG.net moderation.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: myleftnut on July 17, 2022, 01:00:26 AM

Fucking morons need to take the Muslim salami out of their mouths and get some real education. The Crusades saved Europe from Muslim invasion and domination, and Christians especially, should be proud of what their ancestors did to defend the faith! And, incidentally, everything else along with it from being crushed by the Muslims.

Professor Thomas F. Madden, a prominent medieval scholar atSaint Louis University, besides writing many other books on medieval and classical topics, wrote "The Crusades Controversy--Setting the Record Straight". In his excellent book, he discusses precisely how the Muslims had been raiding Europe, raping, enslaving, and seeking to invade and subjugate Europe for the previous 400 years--and that the Crusades were a defensive program, a strong counter-attack by the Christian leadership of the day to save Christianity and Europe from the Muslim tide. He destroys the pet Liberal arguments that "Christianity is bad, the Crusades were evil, and the Muslims were innocent." All fucking destroyed, my friend.

Well said.  A lot of this was the result of the “scholar” Steven Runciman.  He made it trendy for white people to feel bad about the crusades.  The crusades may very well have pushed Islam back just long enough to save our religion.  A lot of people don’t realize most of the Muslim lands today were Christian lands.  For Western Europe, a big reason they were so much less developed in the early Middle Ages was the time it took for them to fortify their inland coast areas from Muslim slavers. 

I have posted in a while and I’m trying to get caught up but did TBP ban someone because they had the nerve to suggest the crusades were kinda sorta justified?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Minotaurians on July 17, 2022, 02:04:32 AM
I have posted in a while and I’m trying to get caught up but did TBP ban someone because they had the nerve to suggest the crusades were kinda sorta justified?

No, that's not what happened at all.

What happened was:

I released a superhero RPG called "Crusaders", a term that I (and many other people, apparently) took in its standard meaning of "militant do-gooder", "champion of a cause" etc. + various phrases like "Caped Crusader" for Batman etc.

Then two people on RPGnet (including a moderator-posting-as-user) began hammering on that this term could be interpreted as 'anti-Muslim' because of the historical Crusades etc etc. I retorted that such a reasoning was completely nonsensical, since the game obviously had NOTHING to do with the Crusades and asked them to stop making "pointless polemics". And then I got banned for, I quote, "dismissing concerns over racism" (while the moderator-posting-as-user who had verbally abused me when I had the audacity to reply to their unjustified claims got away scot-free, of course).

Then I stumbled upon this thread where the issue was being discussed as yet another example of TPB SJW madness etc., and I (perhaps mistakenly) got the impression that some posters here thought that I, somehow, endorsed the historical Crusades etc. But maybe I misread or misinterpreted that. I then made the mistake of posting what I thought was a perfectly legitimate explanation (since I was mentioned in the thread, I felt I had the right to speak for myself). In this explanation, I stated that I had no intention of actively joining this discussion (about the Crusades or RPGnet in general) and that my message was vastly motivated by the presence of John Kim among the posters - someone for whom I've got a lot of respect and I simply didn't want him (or anyone else for that matter) to draw unfounded or mistaken conclusion about my personal ideology (which, BTW, has no link whatsoever with CRUSADERS as a game).

I also said that I didn't want my game to be defended for the wrong reasons (i.e. as something tied to the historical crusades, WHICH IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN THE CASE for ***sake...)

Apparently, this made some posters here very angry, who felt they were being (If I've understood correctly) treated in a contemptuous or presumptuous way...

I was also insulted for being French (you know, the old "surrender monkey" cliché, even those those very words were not used) and portrayed as some kind of sniveling, double-talking whiner...

I can't tell you how dejected I am by this situation: wrongly accused and banned on RPGnet, then completely misunderstood and insulted on RPGsite... Could I, at least, hope for a bit of goodwill?  I have insulted noone, disrespected noone, abused noone.

All I wanted to do was to talk about my superhero RPG - which, by the way, has already gathered quite a lot of interest, support and enthusiasm (independently of these senseless 'controversies' and despite some 'strangely' repeated negative comments by a few RPGnet posters - but hey, I'll leave them the benefit of the doubt and pretend there's no hidden agenda here  ;)).


Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: myleftnut on July 17, 2022, 02:27:42 AM
@Minotaurians.  That’s awful man.  Nobody should be censored/de-platformed for something  so absurd.  The times we are living in are really sad.  The madness going on at rpg.net is a reason for much of the vitriol on this site.  Sadly a small group of very sick individuals have a lot of power in this hobby.  It’s really out of control since rpg.net is important for marketing as they have been around a long time. 

Seriously white people why do you do this to each other?  The world has to artificially change language so you can feel better about your history?  WTF?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: myleftnut on July 17, 2022, 02:31:01 AM
Do you have a site where I can look into your work?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Minotaurians on July 17, 2022, 02:37:59 AM
Do you have a site where I can look into your work?

The game and its first mini-supplements are available on DrivethruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/11095/Legrand-Games-Studio/subcategory/27276_42562/CRUSADERS

Thanks for your understanding & support.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on July 17, 2022, 07:22:33 AM
My mind boggles at how that shithole still keeps going. Just when you think it couldn't get any crazier and disappear into a singularity up it's own arse, it finds a new way to twist things.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on July 17, 2022, 09:01:53 AM
Notice that online discussions have a tendency to go sideways. Written messages in social media do have that flaw; it looks harsher than discussing in person, and some people do have a crude writing style. The whole discussion therefore will tend to get harsher and pull towards more and more insults. I strongly suspect that the reason for a lot of modern divisiveness is social media.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on July 17, 2022, 09:59:56 AM
Do you have a site where I can look into your work?

The game and its first mini-supplements are available on DrivethruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/11095/Legrand-Games-Studio/subcategory/27276_42562/CRUSADERS

Thanks for your understanding & support.

If you want to go the route of outrage marketing, you could put a blurb on the front cover that says, "The Game That Was Banned From TBP!!"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on July 17, 2022, 10:25:40 AM
Notice that online discussions have a tendency to go sideways. Written messages in social media do have that flaw; it looks harsher than discussing in person, and some people do have a crude writing style. The whole discussion therefore will tend to get harsher and pull towards more and more insults. I strongly suspect that the reason for a lot of modern divisiveness is social media.
This is why many businesses require managers to take courses on how to write effective memos and emails, and why HR often has to review anything sent out. You'd think information age tech would make communicating within a business quick and efficient, but the human factor has ensured that it's anything but that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on July 17, 2022, 10:28:49 AM
I have posted in a while and I’m trying to get caught up but did TBP ban someone because they had the nerve to suggest the crusades were kinda sorta justified?

No, that's not what happened at all.

What happened was:

I released a superhero RPG called "Crusaders", a term that I (and many other people, apparently) took in its standard meaning of "militant do-gooder", "champion of a cause" etc. + various phrases like "Caped Crusader" for Batman etc.

Then two people on RPGnet (including a moderator-posting-as-user) began hammering on that this term could be interpreted as 'anti-Muslim' because of the historical Crusades etc etc. I retorted that such a reasoning was completely nonsensical, since the game obviously had NOTHING to do with the Crusades and asked them to stop making "pointless polemics". And then I got banned for, I quote, "dismissing concerns over racism" (while the moderator-posting-as-user who had verbally abused me when I had the audacity to reply to their unjustified claims got away scot-free, of course).

Then I stumbled upon this thread where the issue was being discussed as yet another example of TPB SJW madness etc., and I (perhaps mistakenly) got the impression that some posters here thought that I, somehow, endorsed the historical Crusades etc. But maybe I misread or misinterpreted that. I then made the mistake of posting what I thought was a perfectly legitimate explanation (since I was mentioned in the thread, I felt I had the right to speak for myself). In this explanation, I stated that I had no intention of actively joining this discussion (about the Crusades or RPGnet in general) and that my message was vastly motivated by the presence of John Kim among the posters - someone for whom I've got a lot of respect and I simply didn't want him (or anyone else for that matter) to draw unfounded or mistaken conclusion about my personal ideology (which, BTW, has no link whatsoever with CRUSADERS as a game).

I also said that I didn't want my game to be defended for the wrong reasons (i.e. as something tied to the historical crusades, WHICH IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN THE CASE for ***sake...)

Apparently, this made some posters here very angry, who felt they were being (If I've understood correctly) treated in a contemptuous or presumptuous way...

I was also insulted for being French (you know, the old "surrender monkey" cliché, even those those very words were not used) and portrayed as some kind of sniveling, double-talking whiner...

I can't tell you how dejected I am by this situation: wrongly accused and banned on RPGnet, then completely misunderstood and insulted on RPGsite... Could I, at least, hope for a bit of goodwill?  I have insulted noone, disrespected noone, abused noone.

All I wanted to do was to talk about my superhero RPG - which, by the way, has already gathered quite a lot of interest, support and enthusiasm (independently of these senseless 'controversies' and despite some 'strangely' repeated negative comments by a few RPGnet posters - but hey, I'll leave them the benefit of the doubt and pretend there's no hidden agenda here  ;)).
If you want to discuss your game, you might want to head over to the tabletop RPG section of this site and start a thread. This part of the site is typically dominated by political bitch/whine angst outbursts. Stepping into one of those isn't likely to get a positive response no matter how hard you try as many of the posters just want to get back to their daily bread of bitch/whine angst.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 17, 2022, 11:22:41 AM
Yes and no, he was distancing himself from us, and sotto voce saying we shouldn't "deffend" him or his game. Because we terribad people who constantly incurr in wrongthink.

That's not what I wrote nor what I implied. Stop presuming please. I never came here for anybody to "defend" my game AND I had certainly no intention of discussing the Crusades; I just felt I had the right to intervene since my game was mentioned (but apparently I was wrong).

Intervene?

We were saying how tarded the mods over there are, the latest example being your ban over your games name.

Exactly, you came here so WE didn't. Because we terribad people and if talk anything positive about you or your game that characteristic rubs onto you magically, because (for a movement comprised of pseudo atheists) somehow that's possible.

Nope, WE were discussing the crusades, a tengential discussion brought about from the games title and someone posting an incredibly ignorant take on both here (looking at you jhkim).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on July 17, 2022, 11:23:42 AM
Has anyone pointed out to them that their copies of 1984 contain warnings and that its not an instruction manual?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 17, 2022, 11:27:43 AM
Has anyone pointed out to them that their copies of 1984 contain warnings and that its not an instruction manual?
They'd be banned for being a poor fit for the TBP forum.

In other news, wmarshal, get comfy, 'cause you're taking an extended vacation from TBP.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wmarshal-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-–-defending-an-antidemocratic-dogwhistle.899641/

"wmarshal, even though it has been repeatedly explained by other users that "the US is a republic, not a democracy" is indeed an antidemocracy dogwhistle, you doubled down on asserting it is not. This is yet another instance of an already hefty infraction history, which includes this 30-day ban. We feel you might not be a good fit for RPGnet, but we are going to give you one last chance. Take another month off. We suggest you use the time to think about how you want to engage with the forum when you come back."

Wow. Just wow. Having the NERVE to point out the truth is antidemocratic.

As if these worthless fucks would know what democracy was to begin with.

EDIT: Odd. Copying the link broke it, presumably because Fred fucked up the three dashes in the middle. Oh well.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on July 17, 2022, 11:31:39 AM
wrongly accused and banned on RPGnet, then completely misunderstood and insulted on RPGsite... Could I, at least, hope for a bit of goodwill?

nope, I'm not sure you even have a right to be surprised: it's pretty much par for the course.  Just remember they have heard of you that's what matters.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on July 17, 2022, 11:44:25 AM
I have posted in a while and I’m trying to get caught up but did TBP ban someone because they had the nerve to suggest the crusades were kinda sorta justified?

No, that's not what happened at all.

What happened was:

I released a superhero RPG called "Crusaders", a term that I (and many other people, apparently) took in its standard meaning of "militant do-gooder", "champion of a cause" etc. + various phrases like "Caped Crusader" for Batman etc.

Then two people on RPGnet (including a moderator-posting-as-user) began hammering on that this term could be interpreted as 'anti-Muslim' because of the historical Crusades etc etc. I retorted that such a reasoning was completely nonsensical, since the game obviously had NOTHING to do with the Crusades and asked them to stop making "pointless polemics". And then I got banned for, I quote, "dismissing concerns over racism" (while the moderator-posting-as-user who had verbally abused me when I had the audacity to reply to their unjustified claims got away scot-free, of course).

Then I stumbled upon this thread where the issue was being discussed as yet another example of TPB SJW madness etc., and I (perhaps mistakenly) got the impression that some posters here thought that I, somehow, endorsed the historical Crusades etc. But maybe I misread or misinterpreted that. I then made the mistake of posting what I thought was a perfectly legitimate explanation (since I was mentioned in the thread, I felt I had the right to speak for myself). In this explanation, I stated that I had no intention of actively joining this discussion (about the Crusades or RPGnet in general) and that my message was vastly motivated by the presence of John Kim among the posters - someone for whom I've got a lot of respect and I simply didn't want him (or anyone else for that matter) to draw unfounded or mistaken conclusion about my personal ideology (which, BTW, has no link whatsoever with CRUSADERS as a game).

I also said that I didn't want my game to be defended for the wrong reasons (i.e. as something tied to the historical crusades, WHICH IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN THE CASE for ***sake...)

Apparently, this made some posters here very angry, who felt they were being (If I've understood correctly) treated in a contemptuous or presumptuous way...

I was also insulted for being French (you know, the old "surrender monkey" cliché, even those those very words were not used) and portrayed as some kind of sniveling, double-talking whiner...

I can't tell you how dejected I am by this situation: wrongly accused and banned on RPGnet, then completely misunderstood and insulted on RPGsite... Could I, at least, hope for a bit of goodwill?  I have insulted noone, disrespected noone, abused noone.

All I wanted to do was to talk about my superhero RPG - which, by the way, has already gathered quite a lot of interest, support and enthusiasm (independently of these senseless 'controversies' and despite some 'strangely' repeated negative comments by a few RPGnet posters - but hey, I'll leave them the benefit of the doubt and pretend there's no hidden agenda here  ;)).
I haven't posted there in almost 10 years, my libertarian leanings would likely cause them crawl into a fetal position and seek an even safer space then they already inhabit. I do enjoy reading the site in a "can't help but look at the car crash" sorta way. I watched you post there in near real time and coudl see where it was going.

The only mistake I can see you made was trying the be tolerant with the intolerant that is the vast bulk of TBP; you tried to be logical in a place where logic does not apply.

The RPG Site is Mos Eisely. Yes, "a wretched hive of scum and villainy"  but one where you are free to speak your mind. And ironically the ones who get banned (not saying you) are ones who sign up to troll and "make a point" about how this place isn't that free, as if their trolling isn't obvious.

While I don't agree with every poster here and some are disingenuous as Hell, I 100% support their right to say it, however wrong they may be.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on July 17, 2022, 01:04:30 PM
  I think Eric July is following the correct playbook towards raising funds and developing projects in "nerd space", that seems to be fuck off if you are offended.  It seems to be working like gangbusters for him.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on July 17, 2022, 02:41:43 PM
I can't tell you how dejected I am by this situation: wrongly accused and banned on RPGnet, then completely misunderstood and insulted on RPGsite... Could I, at least, hope for a bit of goodwill?  I have insulted noone, disrespected noone, abused noone.

All I wanted to do was to talk about my superhero RPG - which, by the way, has already gathered quite a lot of interest, support and enthusiasm (independently of these senseless 'controversies' and despite some 'strangely' repeated negative comments by a few RPGnet posters - but hey, I'll leave them the benefit of the doubt and pretend there's no hidden agenda here  ;)).

The crowd here is on the uncouth side, but you won't get banned for holding the wrong opinion, at least.  I suppose it's up to you to decide whether some unkind users make the place better or worse than the people on the other site.

And to agree with what others said, there was no discussing the name with them after it was declared to be bad.  Your only acceptable course of action in their eyes would be to apologize and change the name, immediately.  Any resistance to changing the name would get you a ban for "dismissing racism/sexism/whatever".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 17, 2022, 04:07:30 PM
I got banned for, I quote, "dismissing concerns over racism" ... Then I stumbled upon this thread where the issue was being discussed as yet another example of TPB SJW madness etc., and I (perhaps mistakenly) got the impression that some posters here thought that I, somehow, endorsed the historical Crusades etc. ...I didn't want my game to be defended for the wrong reasons (i.e. as something tied to the historical crusades ...)

Apparently, this made some posters here very angry, who felt they were being (If I've understood correctly) treated in a contemptuous or presumptuous way...

The difficulty here is that just as defending the Crusades is considered an unforgiveable offense as a matter of policy over at TBP, not defending them -- or at least, presenting the appearance of agreeing with TBP's stance that they were totally unjustifiable pillaging expeditions with no object other than wealth or power, which as other posters in the thread have made very clear is incorrect -- is taken very badly by a number of posters here. Put simply, you had the bad luck to touch on an issue where lots of people on both sides have no patience for stances of attempted neutrality or non-involvement.

The one advantage in this forum is that the pro-Crusade side does not represent official board stance or have moderator power, and dragging threads off-topic into any non-related political topic is grounds for banning at Pundit's discretion, for anyone.

Quote
I was also insulted for being French (you know, the old "surrender monkey" cliché, even those those very words were not used) and portrayed as some kind of sniveling, double-talking whiner...

That unfortunately is simply part of the atmosphere around here. Perhaps as part of a reaction to such snarkery being so furiously stifled in other sites, it tends to get more free rein here than it might otherwise. Think of it as the hazing/testing meant to temper new members into proving their toughness to the community; it is very seldom meant as personally as it comes off, if that helps.

Quote
I can't tell you how dejected I am by this situation: wrongly accused and banned on RPGnet, then completely misunderstood and insulted on RPGsite... Could I, at least, hope for a bit of goodwill?

You have mine, for what it's worth. Indeed, I remember interacting with you on TBP many years ago when you were first designing CRUSADERS, and I have just bought the game -- I'll be happy to provide a review once I've had a chance to look it over.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on July 18, 2022, 11:47:40 AM
On the topic of TBP, apparently someone there has taken notice of our discussion of SJG's latest stance and considers us "too vile to be named" and the thread "disgustingly foul."

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/a-time-to-rally.899681/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/a-time-to-rally.899681/)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 18, 2022, 12:44:17 PM
On the topic of TBP, apparently someone there has taken notice of our discussion of SJG's latest stance and considers us "too vile to be named" and the thread "disgustingly foul."

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/a-time-to-rally.899681/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/a-time-to-rally.899681/)

I guess that they missed how many of those who disagree with SJG say "He just lost half of his customers". This is a fine example of people who understand only absolutes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on July 18, 2022, 12:50:28 PM
I guess that they missed how many of those who disagree with SJG say "He just lost half of his customers". This is a fine example of people who understand only absolutes.

  I think half is probably an overstatement--I think that the RPG hobby, having been less than welcomed by/welcoming to religious folk, probably winds up skewing more pro-abortion rights than the overall American audience.

  (Someone on the thread also said we might be due for RPGs being part of the next Satanic Panic. I was sorely tempted to respond with 'Yes, but between this stuff, official D&D Tarot Decks, and other things, this time they're right." :) )
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on July 18, 2022, 01:29:17 PM
I guess that they missed how many of those who disagree with SJG say "He just lost half of his customers". This is a fine example of people who understand only absolutes.

  I think half is probably an overstatement--I think that the RPG hobby, having been less than welcomed by/welcoming to religious folk, probably winds up skewing more pro-abortion rights than the overall American audience.

  (Someone on the thread also said we might be due for RPGs being part of the next Satanic Panic. I was sorely tempted to respond with 'Yes, but between this stuff, official D&D Tarot Decks, and other things, this time they're right." :) )

I think an overwhelming majority of gamers have no idea about any of these political issues with game companies and never will. And then another meaningful portion who become aware of the political issues, just don't care enough for it to change their buying behavior. The later is, for the most part, me. I generally don't care what a company owner thinks about politics as a generalization. There are exceptions but as a rule I don't boycott companies for the political views of the company owners.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 18, 2022, 01:43:06 PM
Quote
I think that the RPG hobby, having been less than welcomed by/welcoming to religious folk, probably winds up skewing more pro-abortion rights than the overall American audience.

You're almost certainly right. I remember one volunteer survey TBP did of its members' religious views back when I was still posting, and it floored me to see "atheist/agnostic" come in at over 40% while traditional Christianity came in around 20%. And that was back before 2008; the disproportionate skew is bound to be worse now.

As remarked in the other thread, I never thought they'd lose half their customers, I simply can't see how they'd gain enough to make up for those they do lose.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on July 18, 2022, 01:52:31 PM
So I just clicked on link to rpg.not for the first time in 4 years. Pretty much since when I was banned for not complying with their nut authoritarian regime. Idk wtf is going there because I don’t even remember my credentials to log in but I was greeted by 3 or 4 pop-ups  about dying members, plus a whole bunch of activist propaganda. At first glance, not a site I would sign up for today. It has a very strange vibe to it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on July 18, 2022, 02:49:31 PM
...3 or 4 pop-ups  about dying members, plus a whole bunch of activist propaganda...
Virtual signaling, literally. This is what they do.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 18, 2022, 03:20:28 PM
On the topic of TBP, apparently someone there has taken notice of our discussion of SJG's latest stance and considers us "too vile to be named" and the thread "disgustingly foul."

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/a-time-to-rally.899681/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/a-time-to-rally.899681/)
Oh, my sides. That fucking thread.

They're hallucinating that the Texas government will pass a law specifically targeting SJG, based on how Florida nut-punched the Mouse. Never mind the fact that Disney enjoyed an absolutely unmatched privilege with their setup and they handed DeSantis and the Florida legislature the perfect reason to strip it from them. SJG is not the Mouse; I'd wager the Texas legislature doesn't even know who Steve Jackson is.

And if it bothers him that much, he's free to move to California. He can dodge the human shit on the streets and hope he doesn't get mugged.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on July 18, 2022, 03:33:23 PM
Haha. I hereby petition Pundit to rename this place to The Site Too Vile To Be Named.

Gotta admit there’s a ring to it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 18, 2022, 03:41:10 PM
...3 or 4 pop-ups  about dying members, plus a whole bunch of activist propaganda...
Virtual signaling, literally. This is what they do.

Well, commemorating the deaths of individual members is a respectable thing, and there aren't many other ways to do so for an internet forum community. Dropping by with a casserole would only very seldom be feasible.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on July 18, 2022, 03:48:41 PM
...3 or 4 pop-ups  about dying members, plus a whole bunch of activist propaganda...
Virtual signaling, literally. This is what they do.

Well, commemorating the deaths of individual members is a respectable thing, and there aren't many other ways to do so for an internet forum community. Dropping by with a casserole would only very seldom be feasible.

Fair point. However, there has to be a better way than a barrage of pop ups to anyone who visits. Most visitors won't know the people being commemorated, so it comes across as empty.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 18, 2022, 03:56:17 PM
Most visitors won't know the people being commemorated, so it comes across as empty.

Perhaps, but I don't see much that can be done about that. Still better to do it than not, I think.

After all, to paraphrase Donne, "Ask not for whom the popup blocks your viewing field; it blocks for thee."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 18, 2022, 04:00:10 PM
On the topic of TBP, apparently someone there has taken notice of our discussion of SJG's latest stance and considers us "too vile to be named" and the thread "disgustingly foul."

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/a-time-to-rally.899681/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/a-time-to-rally.899681/)

We should create a gamming podcast:

The "too vile to be named" podcast in a YT channel called "disgustingly foul." Hosted by? Stinking Troll...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 18, 2022, 04:02:17 PM
...3 or 4 pop-ups  about dying members, plus a whole bunch of activist propaganda...
Virtual signaling, literally. This is what they do.

Well, commemorating the deaths of individual members is a respectable thing, and there aren't many other ways to do so for an internet forum community. Dropping by with a casserole would only very seldom be feasible.

Fair point. However, there has to be a better way than a barrage of pop ups to anyone who visits. Most visitors won't know the people being commemorated, so it comes across as empty.

Except when it's the occasional conmemorating of the recent passin of a "famous" someboy in the hobby that has evaded cancellation up till that point. No guarantees the locustus won't go searching for stuff to cancell the recently departed posthumously.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on July 18, 2022, 04:39:13 PM
After all, to paraphrase Donne, "Ask not for whom the popup blocks your viewing field; it blocks for thee."
Thanks for the laugh (no sarcasm).

Though I wonder if they honor any significant creator or just the ideologically pure ones.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on July 18, 2022, 05:09:20 PM
...3 or 4 pop-ups  about dying members, plus a whole bunch of activist propaganda...
Virtual signaling, literally. This is what they do.

Well, commemorating the deaths of individual members is a respectable thing, and there aren't many other ways to do so for an internet forum community. Dropping by with a casserole would only very seldom be feasible.

Fair point. However, there has to be a better way than a barrage of pop ups to anyone who visits. Most visitors won't know the people being commemorated, so it comes across as empty.

Right. When you go to a gaming website the last thing I want to see is all these dead people notifications. There should be a page dedicated to those. Remembering someone is never a bad thing, but primary purpose of the site seems to have heavily deviated from what it originally intended to be. Dead authors thread would be more suitable for those willing to check it out.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on July 18, 2022, 05:42:56 PM
I guess that they missed how many of those who disagree with SJG say "He just lost half of his customers". This is a fine example of people who understand only absolutes.

  I think half is probably an overstatement--I think that the RPG hobby, having been less than welcomed by/welcoming to religious folk, probably winds up skewing more pro-abortion rights than the overall American audience.

Thats only because the group that loves abortions the most are white liberal men.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 18, 2022, 05:50:34 PM
Thats only because the group that loves abortions the most are white liberal men.

Most likely, though the subset of such men who wind up in the gaming hobby (myself very definitely included for much of my life) don't strike me as the group likely to need them most.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on July 18, 2022, 05:52:19 PM
Thats only because the group that loves abortions the most are white liberal men.

Most likely, though the subset of such men who wind up in the gaming hobby (myself very definitely included for much of my life) don't strike me as the group likely to need them most.

  but...those sorts of dudes will simp for whatever they think women want to hear so it does make sense.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 18, 2022, 05:56:09 PM
Thanks for the laugh (no sarcasm).

Much obliged! :)

Quote
Though I wonder if they honor any significant creator or just the ideologically pure ones.

Well, the universality of death, grief and loss is a thing worth respecting, whatever one's beliefs in the Creator.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on July 18, 2022, 06:01:56 PM
Thats only because the group that loves abortions the most are white liberal men.

Most likely, though the subset of such men who wind up in the gaming hobby (myself very definitely included for much of my life) don't strike me as the group likely to need them most.

Thats why they play Fantasy RPGs.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on July 18, 2022, 06:31:10 PM
On the topic of TBP, apparently someone there has taken notice of our discussion of SJG's latest stance and considers us "too vile to be named" and the thread "disgustingly foul."

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/a-time-to-rally.899681/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/a-time-to-rally.899681/)
Weird (but not) that they find free speech vile; of course this is the group that thinks words=violence.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 19, 2022, 08:15:35 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/eric-the-5b-receives-a-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-threadban.899720/

The mods don't like it when someone points out inherent flaws in the jackboot philosophy. I admit I may be missing something though, because Aikireikinu went all sorts of bitchy on this. Guilty conscience, perhaps.

My favorite, though, was the dumb fucker's post after they redtexted Eric:
Quote
Everyone else, you are now free to return to your previously fruitful discussion.
Well, aren't you gracious. I hope they do a flip when they throw themselves off the rooftop.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on July 19, 2022, 02:52:31 PM
LOL, the douche that started the thread about SJG has already been banned.

"The Site Too Vile To Be Named."  Sounds like an artifact in the original DMG, found between the Sceptre of Might and the Sword of Kas.  I suppose it's kind of like the cyber-version of the Book of Vile Darkness.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 19, 2022, 04:10:01 PM
LOL, the douche that started the thread about SJG has already been banned.

"The Site Too Vile To Be Named."  Sounds like an artifact in the original DMG, found between the Sceptre of Might and the Sword of Kas.  I suppose it's kind of like the cyber-version of the Book of Vile Darkness.
It looks like they tagged him with a guidance asking him to dial back the cross forum drama. And then banned him for personal attacks via PM.

Assuming, of course, Dawgstar is telling the truth. Which is not a sure thing. My guess is he disagreed with Dawgstar, and got banned for it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 20, 2022, 02:48:34 AM
LOL, the douche that started the thread about SJG has already been banned.

"The Site Too Vile To Be Named."  Sounds like an artifact in the original DMG, found between the Sceptre of Might and the Sword of Kas.  I suppose it's kind of like the cyber-version of the Book of Vile Darkness.

It sounds more like a place to me - possibly where the Book of Vile Darkness is kept.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 20, 2022, 10:24:24 AM
LOL, the douche that started the thread about SJG has already been banned.

"The Site Too Vile To Be Named."  Sounds like an artifact in the original DMG, found between the Sceptre of Might and the Sword of Kas.  I suppose it's kind of like the cyber-version of the Book of Vile Darkness.

It sounds more like a place to me - possibly where the Book of Vile Darkness is kept.
Typical progtard hyperbole. You'd think they were talking about /b/, or Rotten, but no. They have the same problem with people; everyone who disagrees with them is Literally Hitler and totally evil.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on July 20, 2022, 01:03:58 PM
LOL, the douche that started the thread about SJG has already been banned.

"The Site Too Vile To Be Named."  Sounds like an artifact in the original DMG, found between the Sceptre of Might and the Sword of Kas.  I suppose it's kind of like the cyber-version of the Book of Vile Darkness.

It sounds more like a place to me - possibly where the Book of Vile Darkness is kept.
Typical progtard hyperbole. You'd think they were talking about /b/, or Rotten, but no. They have the same problem with people; everyone who disagrees with them is Literally Hitler and totally evil.
For comparison,  how do you view people that disagree with you?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 20, 2022, 04:17:03 PM
Did they already debate about this gem at TBP, or it would send the site in an unrecoverable spin? :D

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/nj-trans-prisoner-impregnated-2-inmates-transferred-mens-facility-rcna38947
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on July 20, 2022, 06:58:18 PM
LOL, the douche that started the thread about SJG has already been banned.

"The Site Too Vile To Be Named."  Sounds like an artifact in the original DMG, found between the Sceptre of Might and the Sword of Kas.  I suppose it's kind of like the cyber-version of the Book of Vile Darkness.

It sounds more like a place to me - possibly where the Book of Vile Darkness is kept.
Typical progtard hyperbole. You'd think they were talking about /b/, or Rotten, but no. They have the same problem with people; everyone who disagrees with them is Literally Hitler and totally evil.

I have this theory that they are that way only because the people who disagree with them are too polite and haven't knocked their teeth out in response to their hate...  It seems universal that leftists are obnoxious because normal people don't hit back.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on July 20, 2022, 07:33:08 PM
LOL, the douche that started the thread about SJG has already been banned.

"The Site Too Vile To Be Named."  Sounds like an artifact in the original DMG, found between the Sceptre of Might and the Sword of Kas.  I suppose it's kind of like the cyber-version of the Book of Vile Darkness.

It sounds more like a place to me - possibly where the Book of Vile Darkness is kept.
Typical progtard hyperbole. You'd think they were talking about /b/, or Rotten, but no. They have the same problem with people; everyone who disagrees with them is Literally Hitler and totally evil.

I have this theory that they are that way only because the people who disagree with them are too polite and haven't knocked their teeth out in response to their hate...  It seems universal that leftists are obnoxious because normal people don't hit back.
And what is your reason for being obnoxious?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on July 20, 2022, 08:25:02 PM
LOL, the douche that started the thread about SJG has already been banned.

"The Site Too Vile To Be Named."  Sounds like an artifact in the original DMG, found between the Sceptre of Might and the Sword of Kas.  I suppose it's kind of like the cyber-version of the Book of Vile Darkness.

It sounds more like a place to me - possibly where the Book of Vile Darkness is kept.
Typical progtard hyperbole. You'd think they were talking about /b/, or Rotten, but no. They have the same problem with people; everyone who disagrees with them is Literally Hitler and totally evil.

I have this theory that they are that way only because the people who disagree with them are too polite and haven't knocked their teeth out in response to their hate...  It seems universal that leftists are obnoxious because normal people don't hit back.
And what is your reason for being obnoxious?

You think that is obnoxious?

Huh
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on July 20, 2022, 11:11:59 PM
LOL, the douche that started the thread about SJG has already been banned.

"The Site Too Vile To Be Named."  Sounds like an artifact in the original DMG, found between the Sceptre of Might and the Sword of Kas.  I suppose it's kind of like the cyber-version of the Book of Vile Darkness.

It sounds more like a place to me - possibly where the Book of Vile Darkness is kept.
Typical progtard hyperbole. You'd think they were talking about /b/, or Rotten, but no. They have the same problem with people; everyone who disagrees with them is Literally Hitler and totally evil.

I have this theory that they are that way only because the people who disagree with them are too polite and haven't knocked their teeth out in response to their hate...  It seems universal that leftists are obnoxious because normal people don't hit back.
And what is your reason for being obnoxious?

You think that is obnoxious?

Huh

That wasn't obnoxious, but he definitely can be obnoxious :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 21, 2022, 10:58:56 AM
You are free to parrot the party line and the narrative, nothing more.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/eric-the-5b-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-thirty-day-ban-persistent-linedancing-with-the-rules.899818/

"Line dancing with the rules." Just admit you don't like his politics, you sanctimonious slut, and be done with it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 21, 2022, 11:09:36 AM
Addendum: the entire thread in Tangency that got Eric canned is about how bad free speech is and how some ideas don't deserve airing.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/when-a-political-discussion-is-no-longer-about-politics-and-when-to-gatekeep.899377/

Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on July 21, 2022, 11:44:49 AM
I do love the irony in the suggestion that the poster avoid posting in threads on free speech.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on July 21, 2022, 02:27:32 PM
Addendum: the entire thread in Tangency that got Eric canned is about how bad free speech is and how some ideas don't deserve airing.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/when-a-political-discussion-is-no-longer-about-politics-and-when-to-gatekeep.899377/

Jesus Christ.

“Both of my remaining guests said something along the lines of "Yeah, some people just don't want politics in their hobbies". And I was a little taken aback. Because surely some things aren't really "politics", are they? I tried to express as much. I also pointed out that Warhammer 40k, for example, has always been about politics, even though the old british satire has been steadily eroding over the years.

How is it politics if Group A wants to exclude or even eliminate bald people (for example) while Group B wants to allow bald people to continue to exist unmolested. There can be no discussion or compromise. What would a compromise even be? We only eliminate half of the bald population? Even by engaging in that discussion you're legitimizing the stance of Group A.”


They always argue like this, but it always only goes one way. We are always reprimanded if we don’t want black people mixed into Norse myth for instance. Imagine someone demanding to include Japanese and European characters in a setting based solely on old African myth and stories. I don’t think I’d like that, and in this case I think they’d agree. It’s almost as if excluding some groups of characters doesn’t necessarily mean that you want genocide. 😉
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on July 21, 2022, 02:30:26 PM
I do love the irony in the suggestion that the poster avoid posting in threads on free speech.

And they also bring up Popper's Paradox of Intolerance. Which is the most abused meme on the Internet in my opinion and not at all what Popper thought for 99.999% of topics. His entire life was devoted to countering bad speech with good speech and not silencing bad speech. His paradox was meant to address violence and criminal behavior behind intolerant beliefs, not the intolerant beliefs themselves. Intolerant beliefs which did not carry violence or criminality should be addressed by reasoned counter-arguments.

He literally didn't include Nazism in his Intolerance exception, provided proponents were willing to openly discuss the ideas. "I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise."

He felt his exception was only applicable to people who had, "not the mere existence of exclusionary or intolerant beliefs or philosophies, however reactionary or contemptible, but the open incitement to persecution and violence against others, which should be treated as criminal."

In other words, if you wanted to exclude or be intolerant of gay people, Popper thought that idea might be reactionary and contemptible, but nevertheless felt it would be unwise to suppress it and thought it much wiser to argue against it. Popper felt the paradox of intolerance would only apply in that instance if you advocated violence against gay people or otherwise tried to incite people to engage in direct persecution (on the level of the persecution of the Jews by the Nazis, not on the level of holding intolerant and exclusionary and reactionary beliefs which you grouse about on the Internet). Then, and only then, would he say it rose to the level of triggering his exception to political discourse as represented by the Paradox of Intolerance.

This isn't even that nuanced an argument. But people who like to cite Popper's Paradox of Intolerance don't ever seem to want to mention what Popper said he really meant by it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: thedungeondelver on July 21, 2022, 02:41:19 PM
"Warhammer 40k, for example, has always been about politics, even though the old british satire has been steadily eroding over the years."

I hate normies and I wish tabletop gaming was only for neckbeards like me.  Screw popularity, I want these people out of my hobby forever.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on July 21, 2022, 03:40:37 PM
"Warhammer 40k, for example, has always been about politics, even though the old british satire has been steadily eroding over the years."

I hate normies and I wish tabletop gaming was only for neckbeards like me.  Screw popularity, I want these people out of my hobby forever.

Dude, the guy quoted wasn't a normies, he was a social Marxist - a subhuman.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: thedungeondelver on July 21, 2022, 03:42:58 PM
Dude, the guy quoted wasn't a normies, he was a social Marxist - a subhuman.

That crowd came in behind the normies.  The order was:

Us, then the Normies followed, then the marxists followed behind them to see what the hubbub was about, and here we are.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on July 21, 2022, 03:43:45 PM
I do love the irony in the suggestion that the poster avoid posting in threads on free speech.

And they also bring up Popper's Paradox of Intolerance. Which is the most abused meme on the Internet in my opinion and not at all what Popper thought for 99.999% of topics. His entire life was devoted to countering bad speech with good speech and not silencing bad speech. His paradox was meant to address violence and criminal behavior behind intolerant beliefs, not the intolerant beliefs themselves. Intolerant beliefs which did not carry violence or criminality should be addressed by reasoned counter-arguments.

He literally didn't include Nazism in his Intolerance exception, provided proponents were willing to openly discuss the ideas. "I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise."

He felt his exception was only applicable to people who had, "not the mere existence of exclusionary or intolerant beliefs or philosophies, however reactionary or contemptible, but the open incitement to persecution and violence against others, which should be treated as criminal."

In other words, if you wanted to exclude or be intolerant of gay people, Popper thought that idea might be reactionary and contemptible, but nevertheless felt it would be unwise to suppress it and thought it much wiser to argue against it. Popper felt the paradox of intolerance would only apply in that instance if you advocated violence against gay people or otherwise tried to incite people to engage in direct persecution (on the level of the persecution of the Jews by the Nazis, not on the level of holding intolerant and exclusionary and reactionary beliefs which you grouse about on the Internet). Then, and only then, would he say it rose to the level of triggering his exception to political discourse as represented by the Paradox of Intolerance.

This isn't even that nuanced an argument. But people who like to cite Popper's Paradox of Intolerance don't ever seem to want to mention what Popper said he really meant by it.

You forget - according to leftists, those views that they disapprove of is violence. They see no problem with their interpretation of Popper's Paradox because they simply redefine the terms.

If they were honest with themselves, well, first of all, hopefully they would realize just how evil they are and change, but the ones that didn't would refer to their belief as Repressive Tolerance (https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences/applied-and-social-sciences-magazines/repressive-tolerance (https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences/applied-and-social-sciences-magazines/repressive-tolerance)).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on July 21, 2022, 05:54:29 PM
Warhammer 40k shows the way:

"Humanity stands alone, beset on all sides by the threats of the heretic, the mutant and the alien. There is no mercy. There is no respite. Prepare yourself for battle."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on July 21, 2022, 06:26:06 PM
Warhammer 40k shows the way:

"Humanity stands alone, beset on all sides by the threats of the heretic, the mutant and the alien. There is no mercy. There is no respite. Prepare yourself for battle."
Of course, the Imperium is dependent upon both heretics (Mechanicus) and mutants (psykers and navigators) for its survival. They seem to ally with several aliens too.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on July 21, 2022, 09:45:08 PM
Warhammer 40k shows the way:

"Humanity stands alone, beset on all sides by the threats of the heretic, the mutant and the alien. There is no mercy. There is no respite. Prepare yourself for battle."
Of course, the Imperium is dependent upon both heretics (Mechanicus) and mutants (psykers and navigators) for its survival. They seem to ally with several aliens too.

If you believe the conspiracy theorists.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 22, 2022, 02:26:32 AM
Warhammer 40k shows the way:

"Humanity stands alone, beset on all sides by the threats of the heretic, the mutant and the alien. There is no mercy. There is no respite. Prepare yourself for battle."

Wasn't this...

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the threats of the heretic, the mutant and the alien. Blessed is he who, in the name of the Emperor, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I have no mercy when I lay my vengeance upon you."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on July 22, 2022, 03:46:26 PM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 22, 2022, 10:23:00 PM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

72 and counting you shitlord!

You're getting people killed with your violent rethoric erasing those stunning and brave non cis people you monster!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on July 23, 2022, 04:46:35 AM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

72 and counting you shitlord!

You're getting people killed with your violent rethoric erasing those stunning and brave non cis people you monster!

Don't forget the 16 special edition genders and the 5 additional genders you only get by unlocking the true ending. Also technically there were 3 genders that got retconned in the 90s.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on July 23, 2022, 05:07:50 AM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

  In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on July 23, 2022, 11:10:00 AM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

  In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.

What if the guy has long hair, high pitched voice, tits, no dick but a artificial vagina without a uterus?
What if, unless someone told you, there was no way you could tell?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on July 23, 2022, 11:23:48 AM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

  In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.
By the time she hits her college years (maybe sooner), your daughter may do it just to piss you off.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on July 23, 2022, 12:38:36 PM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

  In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.

What if the guy has long hair, high pitched voice, tits, no dick but a artificial vagina without a uterus?
What if, unless someone told you, there was no way you could tell?

  Then his parents are the worst child abusers known to allow a transistion before adulthood.  ANY of the bathroom/locker room discussion regards school age kids, so not seeing your point. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on July 23, 2022, 12:40:00 PM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

  In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.
By the time she hits her college years (maybe sooner), your daughter may do it just to piss you off.

   Thanks for the advice, I will put it in the “Advice from childless lonely men” folder.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on July 23, 2022, 01:32:06 PM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

  In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.
By the time she hits her college years (maybe sooner), your daughter may do it just to piss you off.

   Thanks for the advice, I will put it in the “Advice from childless lonely men” folder.
You're misfiling it, but it's yours to do with what you wish.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on July 23, 2022, 05:02:40 PM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

  In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.
By the time she hits her college years (maybe sooner), your daughter may do it just to piss you off.

   Thanks for the advice, I will put it in the “Advice from childless lonely men” folder.
You're misfiling it, but it's yours to do with what you wish.

I don't think so, HippyDirt. Having kids changes your outlook. Hell, having pets changes your outlook.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on July 24, 2022, 01:08:51 AM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

  In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.
By the time she hits her college years (maybe sooner), your daughter may do it just to piss you off.

   Thanks for the advice, I will put it in the “Advice from childless lonely men” folder.
You're misfiling it, but it's yours to do with what you wish.

I don't think so, HippyDirt. Having kids changes your outlook. Hell, having pets changes your outlook.
I can say from experience that kids will get rebellious and do some stupid shit sometimes just to piss off their parents. If that's somehow difficult for you to imagine, I can't help you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on July 24, 2022, 02:55:22 AM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

  In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.

Do schools even do the shared shower thing anymore? I thought that went out of style?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on July 24, 2022, 08:02:39 AM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

  In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.

What if the guy has long hair, high pitched voice, tits, no dick but a artificial vagina without a uterus?
What if, unless someone told you, there was no way you could tell?

  Then his parents are the worst child abusers known to allow a transistion before adulthood.  ANY of the bathroom/locker room discussion regards school age kids, so not seeing your point.

So you would beat up a prepubescent child? Or a teenager? That's what you saying? So brave.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on July 24, 2022, 10:22:44 AM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

  In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.

What if the guy has long hair, high pitched voice, tits, no dick but a artificial vagina without a uterus?
What if, unless someone told you, there was no way you could tell?

  Then his parents are the worst child abusers known to allow a transistion before adulthood.  ANY of the bathroom/locker room discussion regards school age kids, so not seeing your point.

So you would beat up a prepubescent child? Or a teenager? That's what you saying? So brave.
You forgot stunning. Stunning and brave.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 24, 2022, 11:24:41 AM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

  In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.

What if the guy has long hair, high pitched voice, tits, no dick but a artificial vagina without a uterus?
What if, unless someone told you, there was no way you could tell?

  Then his parents are the worst child abusers known to allow a transistion before adulthood.  ANY of the bathroom/locker room discussion regards school age kids, so not seeing your point.

So you would beat up a prepubescent child? Or a teenager? That's what you saying? So brave.

Are you always this dishonest? Quote exactly where oggsmash says ANYTHING about beating the dude allowed to enter the girls showers?

Fucking leftoids can't argue in good faith EVER.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on July 24, 2022, 12:13:01 PM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

  In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.
By the time she hits her college years (maybe sooner), your daughter may do it just to piss you off.

   Thanks for the advice, I will put it in the “Advice from childless lonely men” folder.
You're misfiling it, but it's yours to do with what you wish.

I don't think so, HippyDirt. Having kids changes your outlook. Hell, having pets changes your outlook.
I can say from experience that kids will get rebellious and do some stupid shit sometimes just to piss off their parents. If that's somehow difficult for you to imagine, I can't help you.

Your experience of watching sitcoms doesn't count for much. There are even some things done to piss off ma and pa that are too far for kids these days.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on July 24, 2022, 12:36:44 PM

Are you always this dishonest? Quote exactly where oggsmash says ANYTHING about beating the dude allowed to enter the girls showers?

Fucking leftoids can't argue in good faith EVER.

Well, he did say

Quote
In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.

How else am I going to interpret "violence?"

Stern talking to?

Writing a angry letter?

Complain to his congressman?

Please, tell me. How else am I supposed to read what he said?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on July 24, 2022, 12:51:42 PM
Well, he did say

Quote
In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.

How else am I going to interpret "violence?"
Maybe his daughter is going to kick the dude's ass. ;-)

Stern talking to?

Speech can be violence.
Also silence is violence.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 24, 2022, 02:24:51 PM

Are you always this dishonest? Quote exactly where oggsmash says ANYTHING about beating the dude allowed to enter the girls showers?

Fucking leftoids can't argue in good faith EVER.

Well, he did say

Quote
In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.

How else am I going to interpret "violence?"

Stern talking to?

Writing a angry letter?

Complain to his congressman?

Please, tell me. How else am I supposed to read what he said?

To whom was the violence going to be exerted to?

Once more can you quote him saying he's going to beat, etc the dude?

No, you can't, and you choose the least charitable interpretation because you're a dishonest leftoid twat.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 24, 2022, 02:26:39 PM
Well, he did say

Quote
In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.

How else am I going to interpret "violence?"
Maybe his daughter is going to kick the dude's ass. ;-)

Stern talking to?

Speech can be violence.
Also silence is violence.

Or maybe the violence is directed at who allowed it to happen?

Isn't that also a possibility?

Or is it mandatory to jump to accusations of istophobia?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 24, 2022, 10:20:25 PM
Two people are banned for two weeks for calling themselves "dirty old men" in what is clearly a self-deprecating joke:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/coyotes-own-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-fourteen-day-ban.900003/

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/pieta-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-fourteen-day-ban.900005/

It is clear that there is no room for humour in an SJ safe space.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on July 25, 2022, 05:09:14 AM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

  In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.

What if the guy has long hair, high pitched voice, tits, no dick but a artificial vagina without a uterus?
What if, unless someone told you, there was no way you could tell?

  Then his parents are the worst child abusers known to allow a transistion before adulthood.  ANY of the bathroom/locker room discussion regards school age kids, so not seeing your point.

So you would beat up a prepubescent child? Or a teenager? That's what you saying? So brave.

  Why would I do anything to a kid?  Is it that hard for you to read what I wrote in black and white and understand who I consider at fault? 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on July 25, 2022, 05:12:26 AM
Yeah, the problem at this point is that the left has reframed all disagreement as violence.  Don't want to defund the cops?  You want to genocide all black people.  Don't feel comfortable with a transwoman getting naked next to your daughter in the gym locker?  You literally want that person to DIE, you monster.  So of course they have to throw these violent insane people off of their forum, or next thing you know they'll say there's only two sexes, KILLING the other forty-nine genders.  They must be stopped before they can enact their terrible genocide.

That's not to say that the right won't also engage in hyperbole, relatively milquetoast positions on here have gotten our lefty population accused of arguing in bad faith or outright lying, but they aren't being banned as Bolsheviks who want to murder all cis white people.  That distinction is important, I believe.

  In fairness to lefties, if a dude confused about being a girl is allowed to shower with my daughter there is going to be a bit of violence.
By the time she hits her college years (maybe sooner), your daughter may do it just to piss you off.

   Thanks for the advice, I will put it in the “Advice from childless lonely men” folder.
You're misfiling it, but it's yours to do with what you wish.

  No. I am not. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 25, 2022, 06:57:08 AM
Speech can be violence.
Also silence is violence.

Sorry, but no. This is as woke as it gets. Using violence against speech is fascist - and yet this is what is happening all over the English speaking world (for now) starting with university campuses. Check Berkley 2017 for the unbelievable level of violence against a speaker from the alt-right.

The argument that words can be violence is based on a false syllogism. "If words can cause stress, and if prolonged stress can cause physical harm, then speech can be a form of violence." I'm tired of hearing this. True, if A can cause B and B can cause C, then A can cause C. Therefore, if words can cause stress and stress can cause harm, then words can cause harm, but that does not establish that words are violence. It only establishes that words can result in harm. Just rerun the syllogism by swapping in "breaking up with your girlfriend". This can provoke stress in her, and stress can cause harm. That doesn’t mean that it is a violent act. Beating up your girlfriend, OTOH...

If you think that words are violence, and react accordingly, then you are only a puppet in the hands of the first stray troll - or, even worse, a woke.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 25, 2022, 07:55:37 AM
Speech can be violence.
Also silence is violence.

Sorry, but no. This is as woke as it gets. Using violence against speech is fascist - and yet this is what is happening all over the English speaking world (for now) starting with university campuses. Check Berkley 2017 for the unbelievable level of violence against a speaker from the alt-right.

The argument that words can be violence is based on a false syllogism. "If words can cause stress, and if prolonged stress can cause physical harm, then speech can be a form of violence." I'm tired of hearing this. True, if A can cause B and B can cause C, then A can cause C. Therefore, if words can cause stress and stress can cause harm, then words can cause harm, but that does not establish that words are violence. It only establishes that words can result in harm. Just rerun the syllogism by swapping in "breaking up with your girlfriend". This can provoke stress in her, and stress can cause harm. That doesn’t mean that it is a violent act. Beating up your girlfriend, OTOH...

If you think that words are violence, and react accordingly, then you are only a puppet in the hands of the first stray troll - or, even worse, a woke.
And don't forget, Reckall, their violence is just 'free speech'. Contradicting speech to them is 'literal genocide'.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on July 25, 2022, 12:04:12 PM
Speech can be violence.
Also silence is violence.
Sorry, but no. This is as woke as it gets.
...
If you think that words are violence, and react accordingly, then you are only a puppet in the hands of the first stray troll - or, even worse, a woke.
I was being sarcastic. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on July 25, 2022, 03:18:34 PM
Speech can be violence.
Also silence is violence.

Sorry, but no. This is as woke as it gets. Using violence against speech is fascist - and yet this is what is happening all over the English speaking world (for now) starting with university campuses. Check Berkley 2017 for the unbelievable level of violence against a speaker from the alt-right.

The argument that words can be violence is based on a false syllogism. "If words can cause stress, and if prolonged stress can cause physical harm, then speech can be a form of violence." I'm tired of hearing this. True, if A can cause B and B can cause C, then A can cause C. Therefore, if words can cause stress and stress can cause harm, then words can cause harm, but that does not establish that words are violence. It only establishes that words can result in harm. Just rerun the syllogism by swapping in "breaking up with your girlfriend". This can provoke stress in her, and stress can cause harm. That doesn’t mean that it is a violent act. Beating up your girlfriend, OTOH...

If you think that words are violence, and react accordingly, then you are only a puppet in the hands of the first stray troll - or, even worse, a woke.

I await your next "the left has no sense of humor" crack, after you demonstrate the same :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 25, 2022, 04:45:28 PM
Speech can be violence.
Also silence is violence.

Sorry, but no. This is as woke as it gets. Using violence against speech is fascist - and yet this is what is happening all over the English speaking world (for now) starting with university campuses. Check Berkley 2017 for the unbelievable level of violence against a speaker from the alt-right.

The argument that words can be violence is based on a false syllogism. "If words can cause stress, and if prolonged stress can cause physical harm, then speech can be a form of violence." I'm tired of hearing this. True, if A can cause B and B can cause C, then A can cause C. Therefore, if words can cause stress and stress can cause harm, then words can cause harm, but that does not establish that words are violence. It only establishes that words can result in harm. Just rerun the syllogism by swapping in "breaking up with your girlfriend". This can provoke stress in her, and stress can cause harm. That doesn’t mean that it is a violent act. Beating up your girlfriend, OTOH...

If you think that words are violence, and react accordingly, then you are only a puppet in the hands of the first stray troll - or, even worse, a woke.

I await your next "the left has no sense of humor" crack, after you demonstrate the same :)

Oh, please, having sense of humor is SO BOOMER :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: zircher on July 25, 2022, 05:17:41 PM
Oh, please, having sense of humor is SO BOOMER :)
Let me know if you need some Dad jokes for your dungeon.  I got you covered.   ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 25, 2022, 06:30:20 PM
Oh, please, having sense of humor is SO BOOMER :)
Let me know if you need some Dad jokes for your dungeon.  I got you covered.   ;D

I already have a magic mouth asking "What does a dumb clock of dumbing say?" If they don't solve the riddle they are dead.

Are magic mouths still a thing, BTW? There was one in every room during my BECMI years.

[To be clear, the answer is "TikTok, TikTok..." ;D]
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on July 25, 2022, 08:12:14 PM
Can someone who is close to Pundit tell him to stop fucking banning people for fuck all.

Jesus fuck.

First Pat and now SHARK.

Even RPGnet has a setting between not banned and banned.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on July 25, 2022, 08:55:45 PM
Wait, SHARK is banned?!? Why???
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on July 25, 2022, 09:20:08 PM
Can someone who is close to Pundit tell him to stop fucking banning people for fuck all.

Jesus fuck.

First Pat and now SHARK.

Even RPGnet has a setting between not banned and banned.

Eventually we'll all run afoul of the banhammer, and the site will just be Pundit talking to himself.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on July 25, 2022, 09:36:29 PM
Can someone who is close to Pundit tell him to stop fucking banning people for fuck all.

Jesus fuck.

First Pat and now SHARK.

Even RPGnet has a setting between not banned and banned.

What happened?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 25, 2022, 09:37:31 PM
Wait, SHARK is banned?!? Why???

Breaking thread ban

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/list-ttrpg-guide-to-woke-companies/msg1223966/#msg1223966

I hope Pundit reconsiders, Shark's posts in the RPG side are really good.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shasarak on July 25, 2022, 10:10:22 PM
Can someone who is close to Pundit tell him to stop fucking banning people for fuck all.

Jesus fuck.

First Pat and now SHARK.

Even RPGnet has a setting between not banned and banned.

What happened?

SHARK does not know what Mommy Porn is and Pundit decided that was a banning offense.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 25, 2022, 10:41:18 PM
SHARK does not know what Mommy Porn is and Pundit decided that was a banning offense.

It wasn't the topic, it was posting in a thread from which he had been banned. In this particular case I strongly suspect it was sheer forgetfulness: the initial threadban warning was given on May 9, and SHARK's threadban-breaker post was made July 24, nearly three months later. Moreover, it was clearly the kind of idle-curiosity impulse post you do within thirty seconds of reading the post you're responding to, and I strongly doubt there was any intent to push boundaries behind it.

I support Pundit in rigorously upholding his rules, but I think there has to be at least a little room for distinguishing between deliberate violations and simple lapses of memory. I've put in a request to un-ban SHARK at the Help Desk.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on July 25, 2022, 11:43:42 PM
There’s no tool on this site to automatically enforce a threadban here, so I can see forgetting about a threadban. I just unsubscribed from notifications from a thread I got banned from so as to not be tempted to engage with any further replies.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on July 26, 2022, 12:50:12 AM
SHARK does not know what Mommy Porn is and Pundit decided that was a banning offense.

It wasn't the topic, it was posting in a thread from which he had been banned. In this particular case I strongly suspect it was sheer forgetfulness: the initial threadban warning was given on May 9, and SHARK's threadban-breaker post was made July 24, nearly three months later. Moreover, it was clearly the kind of idle-curiosity impulse post you do within thirty seconds of reading the post you're responding to, and I strongly doubt there was any intent to push boundaries behind it.

I support Pundit in rigorously upholding his rules, but I think there has to be at least a little room for distinguishing between deliberate violations and simple lapses of memory. I've put in a request to un-ban SHARK at the Help Desk.

There is a help desk?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on July 26, 2022, 02:01:22 AM
Yeah, I don't see what SHARK did wrong.  He probably just forgot.  Could have happened to anybody.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: APN on July 26, 2022, 06:09:18 AM
I'll look on the big purple for a new thread...

RPGPundit's decay (RPGsite madness)?

It does seem rather heavy handed. Banned (forever) or not.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on July 26, 2022, 12:51:38 PM
SHARK does not know what Mommy Porn is and Pundit decided that was a banning offense.

It wasn't the topic, it was posting in a thread from which he had been banned. In this particular case I strongly suspect it was sheer forgetfulness: the initial threadban warning was given on May 9, and SHARK's threadban-breaker post was made July 24, nearly three months later. Moreover, it was clearly the kind of idle-curiosity impulse post you do within thirty seconds of reading the post you're responding to, and I strongly doubt there was any intent to push boundaries behind it.

I support Pundit in rigorously upholding his rules, but I think there has to be at least a little room for distinguishing between deliberate violations and simple lapses of memory. I've put in a request to un-ban SHARK at the Help Desk.

There is a help desk?

https://www.therpgsite.com/help-desk/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on July 26, 2022, 02:20:50 PM
If we're going to be doing permanent bans for threadbans that rely on the users' memory and honor system, I think we'll need to make threads a lot shorter and more tightly controlled.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Nephil on July 26, 2022, 05:48:45 PM
Can someone who is close to Pundit tell him to stop fucking banning people for fuck all.

Jesus fuck.

First Pat and now SHARK.

Even RPGnet has a setting between not banned and banned.

Hey, Pundit! This is the last straw for me, ban me now or I will speak your precious truename! Fuck this place, it used to be good before the piss rose into your head.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on July 26, 2022, 08:43:27 PM
Quote
..(n)or will stifling open discussion make racism go away.

TBP announces astounding reversal of their earlier position!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mv09BwHGayM
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on July 26, 2022, 08:46:05 PM

Eventually we'll all run afoul of the banhammer, and the site will just be Pundit talking to himself.

<snicker>
I see what you did there... 8)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 27, 2022, 08:18:25 AM
Back to the topic at hand.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wilx-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.900109/

I can't figure this one out. Oh, I know exactly why wilx got the boot -- the 'tolerance' of the intolerant, after all -- but they've been on TBP since 2003. They had to know how TBP's culture had metastasized like cancer. It's not like they hadn't posted for an extended period -- looking at their history, seems like they'd post every few years, but they had to see this shit playing out.

Very strange.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: The Spaniard on July 27, 2022, 08:24:18 AM
Lol!  "your brand of intolerance is not welcome here" only their's is welcome.  How typical.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on July 27, 2022, 08:37:18 AM
Back to the topic at hand.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wilx-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.900109/

I can't figure this one out. Oh, I know exactly why wilx got the boot -- the 'tolerance' of the intolerant, after all -- but they've been on TBP since 2003. They had to know how TBP's culture had metastasized like cancer. It's not like they hadn't posted for an extended period -- looking at their history, seems like they'd post every few years, but they had to see this shit playing out.

Very strange.
You will be made to care about politics, and made to care correctly. To say that you refuse to care is to admit to a heinous crime against the right side of history. TBP mod culture is clearly a totalitarian cult (all cults are essentially totalitarian), but how the poster, a long time member and not a brand new troll account, missed that is indeed bizarre.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: The Spaniard on July 27, 2022, 08:44:14 AM
double post
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 27, 2022, 08:53:31 AM
Lol!  "your brand of intolerance is not welcome here" only theirs is welcome.  How typical.

Should I be asked to choose a single ban that proves how TBP is irremediably insane, I would choose this. It is fascist in the purest sense of the word.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on July 27, 2022, 10:10:30 AM
Truly stunning that the guy says he welcomes all views as long as you respect the views of others, and that's a banworthy intolerant offense. THAT was him restating what "liberalism" meant up until this decade.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on July 27, 2022, 10:21:39 AM
I think TBP needs to take all those little notices they've been posting at the top, expand and add to them, and put them front and center as "This is our creed. If you cannot affirm this and at least offer the proverbial pinch of incense to our idols, you are not welcome here."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 27, 2022, 10:25:54 AM
Truly stunning that the guy says he welcomes all views as long as you respect the views of others, and that's a banworthy intolerant offense. THAT was him restating what "liberalism" meant up until this decade.

Which is one of the reasons why I mentioned fascism. Italian fascism opposed liberalism, especially classical liberalism, which was denounced as "the debacle of individualism". This when Italian fascism was internationally acclaimed for all the good that it was doing for Italy. Think about it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bunch on July 27, 2022, 11:19:49 AM
I think the ban for the guy who isn't making long enough sentences or responding in less than 24 hours is odd one.  I mean if English isn't your first language or your very young I can see trying to keep sentences short.  And the thread he was banned in he was responding in.  Wierd.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on July 27, 2022, 11:25:10 AM
Back to the topic at hand.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wilx-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.900109/

I can't figure this one out. Oh, I know exactly why wilx got the boot -- the 'tolerance' of the intolerant, after all -- but they've been on TBP since 2003. They had to know how TBP's culture had metastasized like cancer. It's not like they hadn't posted for an extended period -- looking at their history, seems like they'd post every few years, but they had to see this shit playing out.

Very strange.
You will be made to care about politics, and made to care correctly. To say that you refuse to care is to admit to a heinous crime against the right side of history. TBP mod culture is clearly a totalitarian cult (all cults are essentially totalitarian), but how the poster, a long time member and not a brand new troll account, missed that is indeed bizarre.

Remember: Only you can prevent thoughtcrime!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on July 27, 2022, 04:17:46 PM
Lol!  "your brand of intolerance is not welcome here" only theirs is welcome.  How typical.

Should I be asked to choose a single ban that proves how TBP is irremediably insane, I would choose this. It is fascist in the purest sense of the word.

There’s that notion again.
I have to disagree. Irredeemably insane yes, but far left and far right aren’t the same. I never saw the point in conflating them. It’s like calling a serial killer a religious terrorist.

For the record: Fascists are extremist militaristic totalitarian nationalists. With a bit extra emphasis on that last word.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 27, 2022, 04:29:41 PM
Lol!  "your brand of intolerance is not welcome here" only theirs is welcome.  How typical.

Should I be asked to choose a single ban that proves how TBP is irremediably insane, I would choose this. It is fascist in the purest sense of the word.

There’s that notion again.
I have to disagree. Irredeemably insane yes, but far left and far right aren’t the same. I never saw the point in conflating them. It’s like calling a serial killer a religious terrorist.

For the record: Fascists are extremist militaristic totalitarian nationalists. With a bit extra emphasis on that last word.

No. According to Merriam-Webster:

- "A tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control."

Britannica Dictionary is even more damning towards TBP:

- "A way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government."

- Very harsh control or authority.

...If the above doesn't describes where that place is now, I don't know what does.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on July 27, 2022, 05:44:00 PM
Lol!  "your brand of intolerance is not welcome here" only theirs is welcome.  How typical.

Should I be asked to choose a single ban that proves how TBP is irremediably insane, I would choose this. It is fascist in the purest sense of the word.

There’s that notion again.
I have to disagree. Irredeemably insane yes, but far left and far right aren’t the same. I never saw the point in conflating them. It’s like calling a serial killer a religious terrorist.

For the record: Fascists are extremist militaristic totalitarian nationalists. With a bit extra emphasis on that last word.

No. According to Merriam-Webster:

- "A tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control."

Britannica Dictionary is even more damning towards TBP:

- "A way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government."

- Very harsh control or authority.

...If the above doesn't describes where that place is now, I don't know what does.

The above dictionaries are inaccurate. If we follow Webster then both Caesar and Louis XIV were fascists, which is a useless definition. One might even say the Britannica dictionary is contradicting the old encyclopedia.  According to Encyclopedia Britannica Fascism is most strictly applied to Fascist Italy, Germany and Spain, or more generally “any right-wing, nationalist, totalitarian movement of government”. It also mentions militaristic virtues. Ryan Chapman has a pretty through YouTube video explaining it, but I’d say that if extremist nationalism is not involved, then it’s definitely not fascism. Militaristic nationalism is the very core of fascism.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on July 29, 2022, 09:10:33 AM
This thread on games people can't enjoy due to philosophical differences (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/irreconcilable-personal-and-setting-ideological-differences.900146/) is an interesting snapshot of TBP's own philosophical leanings. I don't object to the premise, but I am struck by some of the examples in play--the idea that any of Lovecraft's cosmology could be intellectually disturbing seems anathema, as well as the concept of non-democratic government being anything other than inherently evil.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on July 29, 2022, 09:22:35 AM
This thread on games people can't enjoy due to philosophical differences (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/irreconcilable-personal-and-setting-ideological-differences.900146/) is an interesting snapshot of TBP's own philosophical leanings. I don't object to the premise, but I am struck by some of the examples in play--the idea that any of Lovecraft's cosmology could be intellectually disturbing seems anathema, as well as the concept of non-democratic government being anything other than inherently evil.

From the OP;
“.. I can't seem to reconcile the PCs being the good guys and cops at the same time.”

Dear lord
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on July 29, 2022, 10:14:19 AM
This thread on games people can't enjoy due to philosophical differences (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/irreconcilable-personal-and-setting-ideological-differences.900146/) is an interesting snapshot of TBP's own philosophical leanings. I don't object to the premise, but I am struck by some of the examples in play--the idea that any of Lovecraft's cosmology could be intellectually disturbing seems anathema, as well as the concept of non-democratic government being anything other than inherently evil.

From the OP;
“.. I can't seem to reconcile the PCs being the good guys and cops at the same time.”

Dear lord
It would be hilarious if anyone posted about having irreconcilable differences with Blue Rose and it’s dystopian aspects.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on July 29, 2022, 10:27:17 AM
It would be hilarious if anyone posted about having irreconcilable differences with Blue Rose and it’s dystopian aspects.

  I could if I hadn't scrambled my account--I honestly took a look at the first release, but bounced off not only the sexual liberalism of Aldis, but the tendency to demonize conversatism and traditionalism I saw in Jarzon. (The second edition, by contrast, was overt enough that the Kickstarter promotional text convinced me to stop supporting Green Ronin altogether, despite having been a big M&M reader/collector.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Zelen on July 29, 2022, 10:33:16 AM
It is fascist in the purest sense of the word.

Fascism has no definition, except that it's anti-Communism. And Communism is simply dictatorship by the most evil and degenerate members of society.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on July 29, 2022, 10:56:50 AM
It is fascist in the purest sense of the word.

Fascism has no definition, except that it's anti-Communism. And Communism is simply dictatorship by the most evil and degenerate members of society.

  The only definition of fascism that everyone agrees on is that it was Mussolini's movement in early 20th-century Italy. Beyond that, even the Nazis and the Spanish right-wing are in or out depending upon which scholar you consult.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on July 29, 2022, 01:26:35 PM
Yup, the Italian Fascist movement (capitalized) were of course the ones that actually called themselves that. But a lot of people see great similarities and cross-pollination (or contamination) between these regimes in Germany and Spain as well, as well as openly related movements that didn’t get as far in other countries, so having a name for this broader category (“fascists” without capitalization) is quite useful. The real reason why this has always been contentious is at least partially because Hitler didn’t like calling himself fascist. But his indebtedness to Mussolini was always obvious, including the infamous fascist salute (now often called Nazi salute).
 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on July 29, 2022, 01:28:46 PM
This thread on games people can't enjoy due to philosophical differences (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/irreconcilable-personal-and-setting-ideological-differences.900146/) is an interesting snapshot of TBP's own philosophical leanings. I don't object to the premise, but I am struck by some of the examples in play--the idea that any of Lovecraft's cosmology could be intellectually disturbing seems anathema, as well as the concept of non-democratic government being anything other than inherently evil.

From the OP;
“.. I can't seem to reconcile the PCs being the good guys and cops at the same time.”

Dear lord
It would be hilarious if anyone posted about having irreconcilable differences with Blue Rose and it’s dystopian aspects.

Isn’t the supreme overlord in that game a magical stag or something? Doesn’t sound like a very humanist place.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 29, 2022, 03:11:44 PM
Lol!  "your brand of intolerance is not welcome here" only theirs is welcome.  How typical.

Should I be asked to choose a single ban that proves how TBP is irremediably insane, I would choose this. It is fascist in the purest sense of the word.

There’s that notion again.
I have to disagree. Irredeemably insane yes, but far left and far right aren’t the same. I never saw the point in conflating them. It’s like calling a serial killer a religious terrorist.

For the record: Fascists are extremist militaristic totalitarian nationalists. With a bit extra emphasis on that last word.

No. According to Merriam-Webster:

- "A tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control."

Britannica Dictionary is even more damning towards TBP:

- "A way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government."

- Very harsh control or authority.

...If the above doesn't describes where that place is now, I don't know what does.

The above dictionaries are inaccurate. If we follow Webster then both Caesar and Louis XIV were fascists, which is a useless definition. One might even say the Britannica dictionary is contradicting the old encyclopedia.  According to Encyclopedia Britannica Fascism is most strictly applied to Fascist Italy, Germany and Spain, or more generally “any right-wing, nationalist, totalitarian movement of government”. It also mentions militaristic virtues. Ryan Chapman has a pretty through YouTube video explaining it, but I’d say that if extremist nationalism is not involved, then it’s definitely not fascism. Militaristic nationalism is the very core of fascism.

Let put aside for a moment that the aforementioned definitions still apply to TBP. What you are talking about is the historical application of the concept on nation state level - and, in this context, used as a definition for what happened in Italy, then partially in Spain and Germany. Even in the video you quoted, which I watched, there is a jump: up to 10:25 the ideas expressed by Mussolini can very well describe the whole "Woke" movement - especially the (perceived) "age of crowds". Mussolini then chooses "The greatness of the nation" as his "myth" - and from there "Nationalism" becomes associated with the specific brand of Fascism that was first seen in Italy.

But even going forward, Chapman underlines how Fascism still grows from some Marxist roots: start by telling the crowd a simple story of a binary struggle between good and evil where the elites are evil and the common people is good (do we want to speak AGAIN about the obsession for "The Patriarchy" or "White men as elites"?)

The key point, here, is that the original Fascism had a core set of values you had to agree with "or else" because they are for everyone's good. Mussolini honestly thought that he was acting for the good of Italy, that "banning" (i.e. either arresting or deporting) dissenting voices helped the common good. Truth and facts became secondary to "concepts that reach the crowd emotionally". Violence, physical or verbal, was an unavoidable way to attain these aims.

Notice how the woke crowd fully agrees with all of this: violence is condemned but theirs isn't; intolerance is condemned but theirs isn't - because their actions are actually for the greater good. This is why I wrote how "your brand of intolerance is not welcome here - only theirs is welcome" is "fascism in the purest sense of the word."

Dictatorship in Rome was different, as dictators had a temporal mandate and still could be held accountable for their actions when it expired. And Louis XIV was an Absolutist - i.e. he ruled according to how he got out of the bed that day.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on July 29, 2022, 04:16:07 PM
Reckall, I don’t think we’ll ever agree on this. To me, it simply throws too many things into the “fascist” umbrella that nobody would recognize as such. My grandfather (mother’s side)) supported communists, he was stupid in that regard but certainly was not a fascist, who he hid his views from during the war (I once asked my mother why he was a commie, like many communists, he was lazy and wanted things for free according to my mom. Fascists tend to think differently).

What you mention that Mussolini added "The greatness of the nation" (and the extremism of this view) makes the biggest difference. I would also add some things to the video : to fascists militarism actually is part of the point, because they are inspired by military conquerors of the past, to leftists it is a necessity in order to reach utopia (or “unicornia” as I like to say😄). This is why many people think that the socialists are “nicer” despite the fact that the utopia they seek only leads to mass graves. So again I have to disagree, because the underlying motivations of the movements are different, and always have been.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on July 29, 2022, 04:39:23 PM
Reckall, I don’t think we’ll ever agree on this. To me, it simply throws too many things into the “fascist” umbrella that nobody would recognize as such.

Well, I feel the opposite, so let's say that we agree to disagree. :D

However, it is worth remembering what Stanley Kubrick said in his interview with Michel Ciment about "A Clockwork Orange":

What amuses me is that many reviewers speak of this society as a communist one, whereas there is no reason to think it is.

The Minister, played by Anthony Sharp, is clearly a figure of the Right. The writer, Patrick Magee, is a lunatic of the Left. 'The common people must be led, driven, pushed!' he pants into the telephone. 'They will sell their liberty for an easier life!'

But these could be the very words of a fascist.

Yes, of course. They differ only in their dogma. Their means and ends are hardly distinguishable.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on July 30, 2022, 12:24:20 AM
It would be hilarious if anyone posted about having irreconcilable differences with Blue Rose and it’s dystopian aspects.

Isn’t the supreme overlord in that game a magical stag or something? Doesn’t sound like a very humanist place.

Blue Rose has a limited monarchy, where the monarch can be overruled by agreement by the three advising councils - nobles, merchants, and rhydan (talking animals). There's a magical hart that chooses the monarch's successor, but its only action is to pick the monarch's successor.

I wouldn't call it humanist. It's inspired by fantasy works like Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on July 30, 2022, 09:19:16 AM
It would be hilarious if anyone posted about having irreconcilable differences with Blue Rose and it’s dystopian aspects.

Isn’t the supreme overlord in that game a magical stag or something? Doesn’t sound like a very humanist place.

Blue Rose has a limited monarchy, where the monarch can be overruled by agreement by the three advising councils - nobles, merchants, and rhydan (talking animals). There's a magical hart that chooses the monarch's successor, but its only action is to pick the monarch's successor.

I wouldn't call it humanist. It's inspired by fantasy works like Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar.

Well, if it's inspired by racists like Mercedes Lackey, no wonder it's so problematic...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 30, 2022, 09:39:06 AM
The only practical difference between fascists and communists is their flags.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on July 31, 2022, 05:09:12 PM
The only practical difference between fascists and communists is their flags.

The traditional Left<--->Right paradigm doesn't work to explain current politics. Freedom<--->Totalitarianism is much more accurate and useful.

The Left has become more fascist than the Right in America ever was. They've become totalitarian.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 31, 2022, 06:12:34 PM
The only practical difference between fascists and communists is their flags.

The traditional Left<--->Right paradigm doesn't work to explain current politics. Freedom<--->Totalitarianism is much more accurate and useful.

The Left has become more fascist than the Right in America ever was. They've become totalitarian.
Agreed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on July 31, 2022, 06:21:09 PM
The only practical difference between fascists and communists is their flags.
The Left has become more fascist than the Right in America ever was. They've become totalitarian.
Currently true. I think that’s in part because the Left dominates the personnel of the government, and in part because the administrative state dominates so many aspects of our daily lives. If the Right takes over the government and replaces the personnel to the point where a Right viewpoint also dominates the bureaucracy then I suspect the Right would become more totalitarian, and the Left less so. A strong government is similar to the Ring of Power. I’m not an anarchist at all. We need some government, but it’s been tempting since the New Deal era to see the government as being able to answer all problems.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on July 31, 2022, 06:31:19 PM
Currently true. I think that’s in part because the Left dominates the personnel of the government, and in part because the administrative state dominates so many aspects of our daily lives. If the Right takes over the government and replaces the personnel to the point where a Right viewpoint also dominates the bureaucracy then I suspect the Right would become more totalitarian, and the Left less so. A strong government is similar to the Ring of Power. I’m not an anarchist at all. We need some government, but it’s been tempting since the New Deal era to see the government as being able to answer all problems.

The Left has taken over virtually every major institution in America. Government agencies, most large cities, education, entertainment, news, big tech. Even the religious institutions have fallen to the Left. The Right has a few things like most of the governorships, some independent news outlets, and a thriving and growing underground.

I noticed when Obama took office he didn't do the typical reconciling with the other side to work together. He set out on a mission to destroy the Republican party and use every government agency as weapons against the Right. He even purged the military, which we are really starting to see now. Then when he ran for reelection he weaponized Identity Politics and divided this country against itself.

It is a dark time in this country, but not for the reasons mainstream media would have you believe.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 01, 2022, 12:15:12 AM
So now The Big Purple is banning people if they say they think a creator is "charging a lot because they know they can get away with it." (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dragox27-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-arguing-against-paying-creators.900283/)

Good lord, if you disagree with that opinion, just disagree. Banning for that cannot possibly be "against the rules" given no set of rules would cover such a benign thought.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on August 01, 2022, 05:04:13 AM
So now The Big Purple is banning people if they say they think a creator is "charging a lot because they know they can get away with it." (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dragox27-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-arguing-against-paying-creators.900283/)
While RPGnet doesn't tell posters what is and is not worth their money, we have a firm stance in favor of writers, editors, artists, graphic designers, and other creatives being paid fairly for their work.

...Which is the very point the poster made: how the creators can put together schemes to ask for unfair prices.

I don't think that TBP is even woke anymore. I think that they are totally adrift.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on August 01, 2022, 01:07:54 PM
So now The Big Purple is banning people if they say they think a creator is "charging a lot because they know they can get away with it." (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dragox27-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-arguing-against-paying-creators.900283/)
While RPGnet doesn't tell posters what is and is not worth their money, we have a firm stance in favor of writers, editors, artists, graphic designers, and other creatives being paid fairly for their work.

...Which is the very point the poster made: how the creators can put together schemes to ask for unfair prices.

I don't think that TBP is even woke anymore. I think that they are totally adrift.
No, they are just at the end stages of woke.  The only reason they haven't started shooting anyone who doesn't immediately agree with everything a mod says is because they don't think they can get away with it yet.  They've reached the point where the first person to stop clapping goes to the gulag.  It's the natural end of every left-wing ideology...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on August 03, 2022, 10:34:04 AM
How about this: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/need-some-redacting-of-posts-because-of-going-public.900419/#post-24459204 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/need-some-redacting-of-posts-because-of-going-public.900419/#post-24459204)

Basically, this guy, Moritz, wants to have some of his posts and threads deleted because they could "get [him] in trouble". When you consider that TBP's side is the believers of tracking down what a person said a long time ago to punish and humiliate, it's understandable. I can't search his posts (they banned me for pointing out that the FBI found "hands up, don't shoot" to be a lie back in 2016), but anybody else want to? After all, if "accountability" is to be consistent - along the lines of forcing the enemy to play by their own rules - then Moritz clearly has things that he is covering up.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on August 03, 2022, 11:33:11 AM
How about this: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/need-some-redacting-of-posts-because-of-going-public.900419/#post-24459204 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/need-some-redacting-of-posts-because-of-going-public.900419/#post-24459204)

Basically, this guy, Moritz, wants to have some of his posts and threads deleted because they could "get [him] in trouble". When you consider that TBP's side is the believers of tracking down what a person said a long time ago to punish and humiliate, it's understandable. I can't search his posts (they banned me for pointing out that the FBI found "hands up, don't shoot" to be a lie back in 2016), but anybody else want to? After all, if "accountability" is to be consistent - along the lines of forcing the enemy to play by their own rules - then Moritz clearly has things that he is covering up.
Yes, the mod says, licking her lips. Show us your violations so we can help you....cleanse....them...mooohahaha.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 03, 2022, 04:03:49 PM
How about this: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/need-some-redacting-of-posts-because-of-going-public.900419/#post-24459204 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/need-some-redacting-of-posts-because-of-going-public.900419/#post-24459204)

Basically, this guy, Moritz, wants to have some of his posts and threads deleted because they could "get [him] in trouble". When you consider that TBP's side is the believers of tracking down what a person said a long time ago to punish and humiliate, it's understandable. I can't search his posts (they banned me for pointing out that the FBI found "hands up, don't shoot" to be a lie back in 2016), but anybody else want to? After all, if "accountability" is to be consistent - along the lines of forcing the enemy to play by their own rules - then Moritz clearly has things that he is covering up.

I think it's just "I'm LGBTQ+ and living in a foreign nation which doesn't like my kind" sort of thing. Previously they were anonymous but they're about to start a podcast and don't want to be outed by prior posts in a nation that tends to criminalize certain LGBTQ+ stuff.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on August 03, 2022, 04:41:13 PM
  So much for being loud, proud, and stunning and brave I guess.  If you are the sodomy sort, wtf would you move to a country that criminalizes it? 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 03, 2022, 05:29:01 PM
  So much for being loud, proud, and stunning and brave I guess.  If you are the sodomy sort, wtf would you move to a country that criminalizes it?

I mean, if you're the conservative sort, why would you stay in the US where you see the woke boogeyman around every corner? Why not follow Pundit to Uruguay where it seems things are not as bad regarding those kinds of issues? I imagine your answer is similar to this person's answer - there are a lot of reasons to be somewhere which take a higher priority than "There's a lot of people who don't like me here."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on August 03, 2022, 05:32:35 PM
  So much for being loud, proud, and stunning and brave I guess.  If you are the sodomy sort, wtf would you move to a country that criminalizes it?

I mean, if you're the conservative sort, why would you stay in the US where you see the woke boogeyman around every corner?

Simple - if the U.S. falls to the woke, the world falls. There is no place to run to.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on August 03, 2022, 05:38:57 PM
26 pages of pearl clutching over settings that might not be 100% entirely woke and progressive, and then bright-eyed Summerstorm walks in to share his/her thoughts and KABLAMMO.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/irreconcilable-personal-and-setting-ideological-differences.900146/post-24459277

Summerstorm my poor poor baby deplorable, come join us. We want to hear your thoughts.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 03, 2022, 05:39:29 PM
  So much for being loud, proud, and stunning and brave I guess.  If you are the sodomy sort, wtf would you move to a country that criminalizes it?

I mean, if you're the conservative sort, why would you stay in the US where you see the woke boogeyman around every corner?

Simple - if the U.S. falls to the woke, the world falls. There is no place to run to.

This presumes the US has not "fallen to the woke." Putting that aside, so you think if the US becomes more woke, then Uruguay will necessarily also become woke?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 03, 2022, 06:46:36 PM
How about this: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/need-some-redacting-of-posts-because-of-going-public.900419/#post-24459204 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/need-some-redacting-of-posts-because-of-going-public.900419/#post-24459204)

Basically, this guy, Moritz, wants to have some of his posts and threads deleted because they could "get [him] in trouble". When you consider that TBP's side is the believers of tracking down what a person said a long time ago to punish and humiliate, it's understandable. I can't search his posts (they banned me for pointing out that the FBI found "hands up, don't shoot" to be a lie back in 2016), but anybody else want to? After all, if "accountability" is to be consistent - along the lines of forcing the enemy to play by their own rules - then Moritz clearly has things that he is covering up.
Yes, the mod says, licking her lips. Show us your violations so we can help you....cleanse....them...mooohahaha.
I think he has something like over 14,000 posts. Is he asking the mod team to go through them all. I think he still has the ability to edit his own posts. Why can’t he do this himself?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on August 03, 2022, 07:02:17 PM
How about this: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/need-some-redacting-of-posts-because-of-going-public.900419/#post-24459204 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/need-some-redacting-of-posts-because-of-going-public.900419/#post-24459204)

Basically, this guy, Moritz, wants to have some of his posts and threads deleted because they could "get [him] in trouble". When you consider that TBP's side is the believers of tracking down what a person said a long time ago to punish and humiliate, it's understandable. I can't search his posts (they banned me for pointing out that the FBI found "hands up, don't shoot" to be a lie back in 2016), but anybody else want to? After all, if "accountability" is to be consistent - along the lines of forcing the enemy to play by their own rules - then Moritz clearly has things that he is covering up.
Yes, the mod says, licking her lips. Show us your violations so we can help you....cleanse....them...mooohahaha.
I think he has something like over 14,000 posts. Is he asking the mod team to go through them all. I think he still has the ability to edit his own posts. Why can’t he do this himself?
Well then it shouldn't take the mods long to come across something retro-verboten and ban him/her/them/ver/xem.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on August 04, 2022, 04:44:24 AM
How about this: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/need-some-redacting-of-posts-because-of-going-public.900419/#post-24459204 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/need-some-redacting-of-posts-because-of-going-public.900419/#post-24459204)

Basically, this guy, Moritz, wants to have some of his posts and threads deleted because they could "get [him] in trouble". When you consider that TBP's side is the believers of tracking down what a person said a long time ago to punish and humiliate, it's understandable. I can't search his posts (they banned me for pointing out that the FBI found "hands up, don't shoot" to be a lie back in 2016), but anybody else want to? After all, if "accountability" is to be consistent - along the lines of forcing the enemy to play by their own rules - then Moritz clearly has things that he is covering up.

I think it's just "I'm LGBTQ+ and living in a foreign nation which doesn't like my kind" sort of thing. Previously they were anonymous but they're about to start a podcast and don't want to be outed by prior posts in a nation that tends to criminalize certain LGBTQ+ stuff.

Isn't that the german guy who converted to Islam to marry a turkish girl?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on August 04, 2022, 05:21:27 AM
  So much for being loud, proud, and stunning and brave I guess.  If you are the sodomy sort, wtf would you move to a country that criminalizes it?

I mean, if you're the conservative sort, why would you stay in the US where you see the woke boogeyman around every corner? Why not follow Pundit to Uruguay where it seems things are not as bad regarding those kinds of issues? I imagine your answer is similar to this person's answer - there are a lot of reasons to be somewhere which take a higher priority than "There's a lot of people who don't like me here."

  Seeing as my family...out to about 300+ years has been in the USA and built this wonderful nation for others to enjoy....I think staying is also a choice.   If my wife would do it I would already be in Ecuador.  But this is MY nation.  People not liking him is a shit load different than being a criminal due to sodomy.  So I am not sure I buy this as any sort of actual comparison.   As for seeing woke around every corner, no it seems there are only a small very loud, very degenerate handful screeching non stop that men are women and that is settled science.  I think the time for those honoring themselves over such nonsense (celebrating mental illness as some virtue) is soon to come to an end.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on August 04, 2022, 05:22:31 AM
How about this: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/need-some-redacting-of-posts-because-of-going-public.900419/#post-24459204 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/need-some-redacting-of-posts-because-of-going-public.900419/#post-24459204)

Basically, this guy, Moritz, wants to have some of his posts and threads deleted because they could "get [him] in trouble". When you consider that TBP's side is the believers of tracking down what a person said a long time ago to punish and humiliate, it's understandable. I can't search his posts (they banned me for pointing out that the FBI found "hands up, don't shoot" to be a lie back in 2016), but anybody else want to? After all, if "accountability" is to be consistent - along the lines of forcing the enemy to play by their own rules - then Moritz clearly has things that he is covering up.

I think it's just "I'm LGBTQ+ and living in a foreign nation which doesn't like my kind" sort of thing. Previously they were anonymous but they're about to start a podcast and don't want to be outed by prior posts in a nation that tends to criminalize certain LGBTQ+ stuff.

Isn't that the german guy who converted to Islam to marry a turkish girl?

  That would make much more sense than being LGBTQ+ and moving to a nation where he would be a criminal for existing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on August 04, 2022, 10:36:18 AM

  Seeing as my family...out to about 300+ years has been in the USA and built this wonderful nation for others to enjoy....I think staying is also a choice.   If my wife would do it I would already be in Ecuador.  But this is MY nation.  People not liking him is a shit load different than being a criminal due to sodomy.  So I am not sure I buy this as any sort of actual comparison.   As for seeing woke around every corner, no it seems there are only a small very loud, very degenerate handful screeching non stop that men are women and that is settled science.  I think the time for those honoring themselves over such nonsense (celebrating mental illness as some virtue) is soon to come to an end.

Yeah the country has been through much worse than this culture war in that period of time.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on August 04, 2022, 01:11:06 PM
  So much for being loud, proud, and stunning and brave I guess.  If you are the sodomy sort, wtf would you move to a country that criminalizes it?

I mean, if you're the conservative sort, why would you stay in the US where you see the woke boogeyman around every corner? Why not follow Pundit to Uruguay where it seems things are not as bad regarding those kinds of issues? I imagine your answer is similar to this person's answer - there are a lot of reasons to be somewhere which take a higher priority than "There's a lot of people who don't like me here."

There's no comparison between 50% of the people in the country "don't like me here" and moving somewhere you might be imprisoned or even executed.  Anyway, if you're the left-wing sort, why stay in a country where you see Nazis around every corner?  The paradises of China, North Korea, and Cuba  beckon.  Better yet, the anarchist paradise of Somalia.  No government there except for your local warlord -- just like CHAZ.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 04, 2022, 01:17:33 PM
  So much for being loud, proud, and stunning and brave I guess.  If you are the sodomy sort, wtf would you move to a country that criminalizes it?

I mean, if you're the conservative sort, why would you stay in the US where you see the woke boogeyman around every corner? Why not follow Pundit to Uruguay where it seems things are not as bad regarding those kinds of issues? I imagine your answer is similar to this person's answer - there are a lot of reasons to be somewhere which take a higher priority than "There's a lot of people who don't like me here."

  Seeing as my family...out to about 300+ years has been in the USA and built this wonderful nation for others to enjoy....I think staying is also a choice.   If my wife would do it I would already be in Ecuador.  But this is MY nation.  People not liking him is a shit load different than being a criminal due to sodomy.  So I am not sure I buy this as any sort of actual comparison.   As for seeing woke around every corner, no it seems there are only a small very loud, very degenerate handful screeching non stop that men are women and that is settled science.  I think the time for those honoring themselves over such nonsense (celebrating mental illness as some virtue) is soon to come to an end.

How does this position mesh with the other thread wherein it's being argued people are being imprisoned and denied work and other ordinary freedoms for refusing to get vaccinated? Sure sounds like "woke people have turned me into a criminal" type stuff that, according to your logic, is more than enough to gtfo of a nation over?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 04, 2022, 01:19:36 PM



There's no comparison between 50% of the people in the country "don't like me here" and moving somewhere you might be imprisoned or even executed. 

Imprison anyone who refuses the vax! (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/imprison-anyone-who-refuses-the-vax!/)

Y'all need to get your hysterics on the same page.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on August 04, 2022, 01:55:22 PM



There's no comparison between 50% of the people in the country "don't like me here" and moving somewhere you might be imprisoned or even executed. 

Imprison anyone who refuses the vax! (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/imprison-anyone-who-refuses-the-vax!/)

Y'all need to get your hysterics on the same page.

Spinachcat is our best attempt at winning a Herman Cain Award - and who doesn't want an award? :D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on August 04, 2022, 02:03:05 PM
26 pages of pearl clutching over settings that might not be 100% entirely woke and progressive, and then bright-eyed Summerstorm walks in to share his/her thoughts and KABLAMMO.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/irreconcilable-personal-and-setting-ideological-differences.900146/post-24459277

Summerstorm my poor poor baby deplorable, come join us. We want to hear your thoughts.

I was lazily checking that one when I stumbled into this by a certain Grumpygoat...

"Meanwhile, with Call of Cthulhu, the game implicitly assumes that characters who are curious and open to the world are just...deluding themselves, I guess. It's a setting that actively enforces an isolationist, anti-intellectual xenophobic mindset through many applications of its SAN mechanic and through its analogies to mixed-race people and non-white Christian cultures."

OK, the usual word salad against anything HPL, but... What is wrong with non-white Christian cultures?? Do you hate Copts?? :o
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on August 04, 2022, 02:12:32 PM

I was lazily checking that one when I stumbled into this by a certain Grumpygoat...

Anyone who uses an Admiral Holdo avatar is pretty much giving the game away right there... :)

Quote
"Meanwhile, with Call of Cthulhu, the game implicitly assumes that characters who are curious and open to the world are just...deluding themselves, I guess. It's a setting that actively enforces an isolationist, anti-intellectual xenophobic mindset through many applications of its SAN mechanic and through its analogies to mixed-race people and non-white Christian cultures."

OK, the usual word salad against anything HPL, but... What is wrong with non-white Christian cultures?? Do you hate Copts?? :o

   They do, if not consciously--I remain convinced that hatred of Christianity is the underlying creed of TBP, although largely unconscious at this point--but they can't admit that. :) It appears "white Christian" was the shibboleth being modified by "non-" as a single phrase, rather than "non-white" modifying "Christian", but they need the qualifier because their self-image as Defender of BIPOC and Other Oppressed Minorities trumps (at least consciously) their Christophobia.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2022, 06:43:18 PM

I was lazily checking that one when I stumbled into this by a certain Grumpygoat...

Anyone who uses an Admiral Holdo avatar is pretty much giving the game away right there... :)

Quote
"Meanwhile, with Call of Cthulhu, the game implicitly assumes that characters who are curious and open to the world are just...deluding themselves, I guess. It's a setting that actively enforces an isolationist, anti-intellectual xenophobic mindset through many applications of its SAN mechanic and through its analogies to mixed-race people and non-white Christian cultures."

OK, the usual word salad against anything HPL, but... What is wrong with non-white Christian cultures?? Do you hate Copts?? :o

   They do, if not consciously--I remain convinced that hatred of Christianity is the underlying creed of TBP, although largely unconscious at this point--but they can't admit that. :) It appears "white Christian" was the shibboleth being modified by "non-" as a single phrase, rather than "non-white" modifying "Christian", but they need the qualifier because their self-image as Defender of BIPOC and Other Oppressed Minorities trumps (at least consciously) their Christophobia.

Not really, I bet Admiral Gender Studies was talking mainly about Islam and other religions except Christianity (and Judaism they hate the Jews). To them, any Christian colored people POC suffer from internalized racism.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on August 05, 2022, 05:25:09 AM
  So much for being loud, proud, and stunning and brave I guess.  If you are the sodomy sort, wtf would you move to a country that criminalizes it?

I mean, if you're the conservative sort, why would you stay in the US where you see the woke boogeyman around every corner? Why not follow Pundit to Uruguay where it seems things are not as bad regarding those kinds of issues? I imagine your answer is similar to this person's answer - there are a lot of reasons to be somewhere which take a higher priority than "There's a lot of people who don't like me here."

  Seeing as my family...out to about 300+ years has been in the USA and built this wonderful nation for others to enjoy....I think staying is also a choice.   If my wife would do it I would already be in Ecuador.  But this is MY nation.  People not liking him is a shit load different than being a criminal due to sodomy.  So I am not sure I buy this as any sort of actual comparison.   As for seeing woke around every corner, no it seems there are only a small very loud, very degenerate handful screeching non stop that men are women and that is settled science.  I think the time for those honoring themselves over such nonsense (celebrating mental illness as some virtue) is soon to come to an end.

How does this position mesh with the other thread wherein it's being argued people are being imprisoned and denied work and other ordinary freedoms for refusing to get vaccinated? Sure sounds like "woke people have turned me into a criminal" type stuff that, according to your logic, is more than enough to gtfo of a nation over?

  If I were a rat that flees a ship as soon is it springs a leak, you would be correct.  Also you pretend the argument is some imaginary feeling.  People ARE fired for not getting a vax.  That is a point blank fact.  I did not see anyone saying people are criminalized in the USA over the vax, the title of that thread is hyperbolic and I would think a smart guy like you knows this.  I think the sentiment is, if the same people shitcanning people over a vax could jail them they would.   Going somewhere by choice where you will be a criminal on landing is ALOT different than suddenly becoming an outsider....the second it is time to fight not flee.  I guess some people view refugees fleeing like rats on a ship taking on water as heroic.  I do not.  If you are not willing to fight and die for what is yours you are simply not a man. 

   I personally would move somewhere else that is less gone to rot with people getting fat, soft, and mentally weak at an exponential rate.  Covid has made this into a whole different thing though, and it seems massive global pharma companies can dictate policy the world over.  So...I am for staying where the family wants to be.  I have hopes it does not come to bloody violence, but I most certainly prefer bloody violence to continued capitulation to loons who feel they define reality from insane fever dreams.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on August 05, 2022, 09:38:56 AM
  So much for being loud, proud, and stunning and brave I guess.  If you are the sodomy sort, wtf would you move to a country that criminalizes it?

I mean, if you're the conservative sort, why would you stay in the US where you see the woke boogeyman around every corner? Why not follow Pundit to Uruguay where it seems things are not as bad regarding those kinds of issues? I imagine your answer is similar to this person's answer - there are a lot of reasons to be somewhere which take a higher priority than "There's a lot of people who don't like me here."

  Seeing as my family...out to about 300+ years has been in the USA and built this wonderful nation for others to enjoy....I think staying is also a choice.   If my wife would do it I would already be in Ecuador.  But this is MY nation.  People not liking him is a shit load different than being a criminal due to sodomy.  So I am not sure I buy this as any sort of actual comparison.   As for seeing woke around every corner, no it seems there are only a small very loud, very degenerate handful screeching non stop that men are women and that is settled science.  I think the time for those honoring themselves over such nonsense (celebrating mental illness as some virtue) is soon to come to an end.

How does this position mesh with the other thread wherein it's being argued people are being imprisoned and denied work and other ordinary freedoms for refusing to get vaccinated? Sure sounds like "woke people have turned me into a criminal" type stuff that, according to your logic, is more than enough to gtfo of a nation over?

  If I were a rat that flees a ship as soon is it springs a leak, you would be correct.  Also you pretend the argument is some imaginary feeling.  People ARE fired for not getting a vax.  That is a point blank fact.  I did not see anyone saying people are criminalized in the USA over the vax, the title of that thread is hyperbolic and I would think a smart guy like you knows this.  I think the sentiment is, if the same people shitcanning people over a vax could jail them they would.   Going somewhere by choice where you will be a criminal on landing is ALOT different than suddenly becoming an outsider....the second it is time to fight not flee.  I guess some people view refugees fleeing like rats on a ship taking on water as heroic.  I do not.  If you are not willing to fight and die for what is yours you are simply not a man. 

   I personally would move somewhere else that is less gone to rot with people getting fat, soft, and mentally weak at an exponential rate.  Covid has made this into a whole different thing though, and it seems massive global pharma companies can dictate policy the world over.  So...I am for staying where the family wants to be.  I have hopes it does not come to bloody violence, but I most certainly prefer bloody violence to continued capitulation to loons who feel they define reality from insane fever dreams.
Also worth noting; the United States is a huge country and extremely heterogeneous in terms of its political and economic situation. You mostly hear about the chaos in the big cities and the heavy-handed dictates of Blue State Governors and you’d think the country is on the edge of collapse while out here in flyover country things are entirely back to pre-pandemic conditions (and have been since early 2021) except for the inflated prices (i.e. gas currently at $4.25 a gallon).

Basically, there’s no need to flee from a place where you can wear MAGA hats openly and you see more veils on the heads of teenage girls at Mass (counter-culture these days is voluntarily going back to old traditions) than you do people clinging to their masks (I counted six veils and two mask at our last thousand person Mass) and your mayor shut down the BLM protests in 2020 with tear-gas and arrests (holding them over the entire weekend since the courts are closed on weekends) the moment the first window got broken.

Basically, New York, California, Chicago and other Leftist hellholes are not the extent of the country. Frankly the sane parts have the crazies completely surrounded.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 05, 2022, 12:32:03 PM
There's an interesting thread on TBP about 'bad business decisions' that I admit I'm rather enjoying (despite the repeated genuflections from posters towards 'capitalism bad, durr'). However, stating that the fall of disco was caused by racism, homophobia, and white supremacy is a fascinating take on things.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 05, 2022, 01:57:02 PM
I did not see anyone saying people are criminalized in the USA over the vax, the title of that thread is hyperbolic and I would think a smart guy like you knows this.

OH you finally arrived at my point.

Could it also be this guy is making a hyperbolic point that he will somehow face jeopardy in his new nation (which he has been in for years now) over posts he made USING AN ALIAS on a role playing game message board years ago?

I think this guy is attention whoring, or otherwise playing himself up as a victim. He's trying to say, "Oh oh I am oppressed you need to help me, see my oppression!" over something meaningless and which has zero chance of him being oppressed.

Nobody was going to care about his podcast. Nobody was going to try and crack his prior message board aliases (or was even aware of that message board, in a different language even, in his new nation) and read through his thousands of messages to try and find some clue that he might be LGBTQ+.

In fact they only chance anyone could ever do that IS HIS PUBLIC COMPLAINT ABOUT IT CALLING ATTENTION TO IT. Now people can connect the dots on what nation he's in, that he will have a new podcast there coming up, and that his user name on that message board is that, and that there was something at issue with his posts.

If he really cared about this issue the way he claims he cares about it, we would never have seen or known any of this. It would have all been done in private messages, or he would have simply deleted his own posts himself. Obviously. Unless he's truly a complete idiot. In which case we again come back to the point that nobody will ever care about his podcast.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on August 05, 2022, 02:29:39 PM
There's an interesting thread on TBP about 'bad business decisions' that I admit I'm rather enjoying (despite the repeated genuflections from posters towards 'capitalism bad, durr'). However, stating that the fall of disco was caused by racism, homophobia, and white supremacy is a fascinating take on things.

What a joke. Bad business decisions are made in defiance of capitalism, not as a result of it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on August 05, 2022, 07:20:58 PM
OK, this one's a doozy.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/diogenes_castor-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-two-day-ban.900533/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/diogenes_castor-receives-a-%F0%9F%9A%AB-two-day-ban.900533/)

Quote
Citing sources from the most conservative groups within in a religion as being the most authentic tends to provide a very misleading picture of how other, less conservative groups within a religion practice. Those less conservative groups may also (and in fact often do) constitute the majority within the religion.



In this case, the authority cited comes from an Orthodox Jewish site. Orthodox Judaism is a modern ultraconservative subgroup of Judaism, founded in 1820 as a reaction against older progressive Jewish movements. Its "traditions" are younger than Jane Austen, younger than canned food. Orthodox Judaism is about 7% of all modern Judaism. It does not come close to speaking for all Jewish peoples.



Further, consider and respect that other people in the thread may have deeper experience of particular religions than you. Telling a Jewish poster that "a quick google" refutes their knowledge of their own faith is unacceptable.

   The first two paragraphs and the third paragraph seem to contradict one another ("Other people have different lived experiences ... but we can judge what is and isn't theologically legitimate!"), and that second paragraph ... can you tell me that if a regular poster had written that, they wouldn't be banned permanently and hounded out of the entire hobby for anti-Semitism?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 06, 2022, 12:13:53 AM
  So much for being loud, proud, and stunning and brave I guess.  If you are the sodomy sort, wtf would you move to a country that criminalizes it?

I mean, if you're the conservative sort, why would you stay in the US where you see the woke boogeyman around every corner? Why not follow Pundit to Uruguay where it seems things are not as bad regarding those kinds of issues? I imagine your answer is similar to this person's answer - there are a lot of reasons to be somewhere which take a higher priority than "There's a lot of people who don't like me here."

  Seeing as my family...out to about 300+ years has been in the USA and built this wonderful nation for others to enjoy....I think staying is also a choice.   If my wife would do it I would already be in Ecuador.  But this is MY nation.  People not liking him is a shit load different than being a criminal due to sodomy.  So I am not sure I buy this as any sort of actual comparison.   As for seeing woke around every corner, no it seems there are only a small very loud, very degenerate handful screeching non stop that men are women and that is settled science.  I think the time for those honoring themselves over such nonsense (celebrating mental illness as some virtue) is soon to come to an end.

How does this position mesh with the other thread wherein it's being argued people are being imprisoned and denied work and other ordinary freedoms for refusing to get vaccinated? Sure sounds like "woke people have turned me into a criminal" type stuff that, according to your logic, is more than enough to gtfo of a nation over?

  If I were a rat that flees a ship as soon is it springs a leak, you would be correct.  Also you pretend the argument is some imaginary feeling.  People ARE fired for not getting a vax.  That is a point blank fact.  I did not see anyone saying people are criminalized in the USA over the vax, the title of that thread is hyperbolic and I would think a smart guy like you knows this.

Hardly. The OP is a link to a street poll where people were supportive of the idea of jailing people who refused the vax. That was the point of the thread. Mistwell wants to misrepresent that to distract from how fucking insane people got over the vaccinations.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on August 06, 2022, 07:31:52 PM
  So much for being loud, proud, and stunning and brave I guess.  If you are the sodomy sort, wtf would you move to a country that criminalizes it?

I mean, if you're the conservative sort, why would you stay in the US where you see the woke boogeyman around every corner? Why not follow Pundit to Uruguay where it seems things are not as bad regarding those kinds of issues? I imagine your answer is similar to this person's answer - there are a lot of reasons to be somewhere which take a higher priority than "There's a lot of people who don't like me here."

  Seeing as my family...out to about 300+ years has been in the USA and built this wonderful nation for others to enjoy....I think staying is also a choice.   If my wife would do it I would already be in Ecuador.  But this is MY nation.  People not liking him is a shit load different than being a criminal due to sodomy.  So I am not sure I buy this as any sort of actual comparison.   As for seeing woke around every corner, no it seems there are only a small very loud, very degenerate handful screeching non stop that men are women and that is settled science.  I think the time for those honoring themselves over such nonsense (celebrating mental illness as some virtue) is soon to come to an end.

How does this position mesh with the other thread wherein it's being argued people are being imprisoned and denied work and other ordinary freedoms for refusing to get vaccinated? Sure sounds like "woke people have turned me into a criminal" type stuff that, according to your logic, is more than enough to gtfo of a nation over?

  If I were a rat that flees a ship as soon is it springs a leak, you would be correct.  Also you pretend the argument is some imaginary feeling.  People ARE fired for not getting a vax.  That is a point blank fact.  I did not see anyone saying people are criminalized in the USA over the vax, the title of that thread is hyperbolic and I would think a smart guy like you knows this.  I think the sentiment is, if the same people shitcanning people over a vax could jail them they would.   Going somewhere by choice where you will be a criminal on landing is ALOT different than suddenly becoming an outsider....the second it is time to fight not flee.  I guess some people view refugees fleeing like rats on a ship taking on water as heroic.  I do not.  If you are not willing to fight and die for what is yours you are simply not a man. 

   I personally would move somewhere else that is less gone to rot with people getting fat, soft, and mentally weak at an exponential rate.  Covid has made this into a whole different thing though, and it seems massive global pharma companies can dictate policy the world over.  So...I am for staying where the family wants to be.  I have hopes it does not come to bloody violence, but I most certainly prefer bloody violence to continued capitulation to loons who feel they define reality from insane fever dreams.
Also worth noting; the United States is a huge country and extremely heterogeneous in terms of its political and economic situation. You mostly hear about the chaos in the big cities and the heavy-handed dictates of Blue State Governors and you’d think the country is on the edge of collapse while out here in flyover country things are entirely back to pre-pandemic conditions (and have been since early 2021) except for the inflated prices (i.e. gas currently at $4.25 a gallon).

Basically, there’s no need to flee from a place where you can wear MAGA hats openly and you see more veils on the heads of teenage girls at Mass (counter-culture these days is voluntarily going back to old traditions) than you do people clinging to their masks (I counted six veils and two mask at our last thousand person Mass) and your mayor shut down the BLM protests in 2020 with tear-gas and arrests (holding them over the entire weekend since the courts are closed on weekends) the moment the first window got broken.

Basically, New York, California, Chicago and other Leftist hellholes are not the extent of the country. Frankly the sane parts have the crazies completely surrounded.

Greetings!

In the town I live in, on the edge a ways, there is a steel plant. A modest plant thing that makes tools or something. Anyhow, I was driving by recently--in their employee parking lot, a long row of pick-up trucks proudly flying TRUMP flags!

Then again, my neighborhood also features many houses that have Trump flags, and American flags, on their front lawns and porches.

All of that is normal where I live.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Jason Coplen on August 07, 2022, 06:14:31 PM
  So much for being loud, proud, and stunning and brave I guess.  If you are the sodomy sort, wtf would you move to a country that criminalizes it?

I mean, if you're the conservative sort, why would you stay in the US where you see the woke boogeyman around every corner? Why not follow Pundit to Uruguay where it seems things are not as bad regarding those kinds of issues? I imagine your answer is similar to this person's answer - there are a lot of reasons to be somewhere which take a higher priority than "There's a lot of people who don't like me here."

  Seeing as my family...out to about 300+ years has been in the USA and built this wonderful nation for others to enjoy....I think staying is also a choice.   If my wife would do it I would already be in Ecuador.  But this is MY nation.  People not liking him is a shit load different than being a criminal due to sodomy.  So I am not sure I buy this as any sort of actual comparison.   As for seeing woke around every corner, no it seems there are only a small very loud, very degenerate handful screeching non stop that men are women and that is settled science.  I think the time for those honoring themselves over such nonsense (celebrating mental illness as some virtue) is soon to come to an end.

How does this position mesh with the other thread wherein it's being argued people are being imprisoned and denied work and other ordinary freedoms for refusing to get vaccinated? Sure sounds like "woke people have turned me into a criminal" type stuff that, according to your logic, is more than enough to gtfo of a nation over?

  If I were a rat that flees a ship as soon is it springs a leak, you would be correct.  Also you pretend the argument is some imaginary feeling.  People ARE fired for not getting a vax.  That is a point blank fact.  I did not see anyone saying people are criminalized in the USA over the vax, the title of that thread is hyperbolic and I would think a smart guy like you knows this.  I think the sentiment is, if the same people shitcanning people over a vax could jail them they would.   Going somewhere by choice where you will be a criminal on landing is ALOT different than suddenly becoming an outsider....the second it is time to fight not flee.  I guess some people view refugees fleeing like rats on a ship taking on water as heroic.  I do not.  If you are not willing to fight and die for what is yours you are simply not a man. 

   I personally would move somewhere else that is less gone to rot with people getting fat, soft, and mentally weak at an exponential rate.  Covid has made this into a whole different thing though, and it seems massive global pharma companies can dictate policy the world over.  So...I am for staying where the family wants to be.  I have hopes it does not come to bloody violence, but I most certainly prefer bloody violence to continued capitulation to loons who feel they define reality from insane fever dreams.
Also worth noting; the United States is a huge country and extremely heterogeneous in terms of its political and economic situation. You mostly hear about the chaos in the big cities and the heavy-handed dictates of Blue State Governors and you’d think the country is on the edge of collapse while out here in flyover country things are entirely back to pre-pandemic conditions (and have been since early 2021) except for the inflated prices (i.e. gas currently at $4.25 a gallon).

Basically, there’s no need to flee from a place where you can wear MAGA hats openly and you see more veils on the heads of teenage girls at Mass (counter-culture these days is voluntarily going back to old traditions) than you do people clinging to their masks (I counted six veils and two mask at our last thousand person Mass) and your mayor shut down the BLM protests in 2020 with tear-gas and arrests (holding them over the entire weekend since the courts are closed on weekends) the moment the first window got broken.

Basically, New York, California, Chicago and other Leftist hellholes are not the extent of the country. Frankly the sane parts have the crazies completely surrounded.

Greetings!

In the town I live in, on the edge a ways, there is a steel plant. A modest plant thing that makes tools or something. Anyhow, I was driving by recently--in their employee parking lot, a long row of pick-up trucks proudly flying TRUMP flags!

Then again, my neighborhood also features many houses that have Trump flags, and American flags, on their front lawns and porches.

All of that is normal where I live.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Similar here. A lot of military flags (Hooyah!), fuck Joe Biden flags, Trump flags and so on. Very much not a snowflake town.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 07, 2022, 08:25:28 PM
I live in Los Angeles, and directly across the street from my house is a huge banner on the fence than says Let's Go Brandon. It's been there over a year now. The way people talk about Los Angeles you'd think that guy would have been executed on sight.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on August 07, 2022, 08:54:54 PM
I live in Los Angeles, and directly across the street from my house is a huge banner on the fence than says Let's Go Brandon. It's been there over a year now. The way people talk about Los Angeles you'd think that guy would have been executed on sight.

"My neighbor is a Trump supporter, so I must be OK!" and other lies that scared Leftists tell themselves in the face of an upcoming election.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 08, 2022, 04:20:01 PM
I live in Los Angeles, and directly across the street from my house is a huge banner on the fence than says Let's Go Brandon. It's been there over a year now. The way people talk about Los Angeles you'd think that guy would have been executed on sight.

"My neighbor is a Trump supporter, so I must be OK!" and other lies that scared Leftists tell themselves in the face of an upcoming election.

LOLwut? Where did I say or imply anything about me in that? I was talking about the city of Los Angeles, which isn't to be confused with the individual of me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on August 10, 2022, 04:05:52 PM
I took a Quick Peek at the big Purple Today and saw this thread.

"Irreconcilable Personal and Setting Ideological Differences"

Which is nothing more than an online struggle session dedicated to each poster outdoing one another on how disgusted they are at 90% of the Tabletop RPGs out there for their 'problematic' content. Everything from Fantasy games for 'race essentialism', historical games for 'colonialism and treatment of BIPOC people', superhero games for being 'facist', and any game where you potentially portray LEO because ACAB.

I seriously had to take a step back and wonder to myself....

What do these people actually play? Like, what are their home games like? What happens in them, what is their favorite way of playing and what do they do?

How are they as GM's and how do they treat their players? Does everyone have to fill out the weird consent forms that Monte Cook made?

I'm only 40 and I feel like "Modern" RPG culture as displayed by the big Purple has morphed into a strange Beast that's supposed to be a stand in for activism and therapy rather than a fun time playing pretend.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 10, 2022, 05:49:54 PM
I took a Quick Peek at the big Purple Today and saw this thread.

"Irreconcilable Personal and Setting Ideological Differences"

Which is nothing more than an online struggle session dedicated to each poster outdoing one another on how disgusted they are at 90% of the Tabletop RPGs out there for their 'problematic' content. Everything from Fantasy games for 'race essentialism', historical games for 'colonialism and treatment of BIPOC people', superhero games for being 'facist', and any game where you potentially portray LEO because ACAB.

I seriously had to take a step back and wonder to myself....

What do these people actually play? Like, what are their home games like? What happens in them, what is their favorite way of playing and what do they do?

How are they as GM's and how do they treat their players? Does everyone have to fill out the weird consent forms that Monte Cook made?

I'm only 40 and I feel like "Modern" RPG culture as displayed by the big Purple has morphed into a strange Beast that's supposed to be a stand in for activism and therapy rather than a fun time playing pretend.
The Woke at TBP are in a cult, and the mods there are cult disciplinarians very much focused on preventing anyone from piercing the current Woke orthodoxy as determined by them. When you see a thread like that understand most of those participants probably aren’t in any active games. For the truly devoted Woke those threads are them witnessing their faith, and perhaps a confessional for their prior sins. For those in that thread not truly Woke their participation is more like that of a LARPer. The few that try to introduce heterodox thinking get modded.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on August 10, 2022, 05:55:50 PM
I took a Quick Peek at the big Purple Today and saw this thread.

"Irreconcilable Personal and Setting Ideological Differences"

Which is nothing more than an online struggle session dedicated to each poster outdoing one another on how disgusted they are at 90% of the Tabletop RPGs out there for their 'problematic' content. Everything from Fantasy games for 'race essentialism', historical games for 'colonialism and treatment of BIPOC people', superhero games for being 'facist', and any game where you potentially portray LEO because ACAB.

I seriously had to take a step back and wonder to myself....

What do these people actually play? Like, what are their home games like? What happens in them, what is their favorite way of playing and what do they do?

How are they as GM's and how do they treat their players? Does everyone have to fill out the weird consent forms that Monte Cook made?

I'm only 40 and I feel like "Modern" RPG culture as displayed by the big Purple has morphed into a strange Beast that's supposed to be a stand in for activism and therapy rather than a fun time playing pretend.
The Woke at TBP are in a cult, and the mods there are cult disciplinarians very much focused on preventing anyone from piercing the current Woke orthodoxy as determined by them. When you see a thread like that understand most of those participants probably aren’t in any active games. For the truly devoted Woke those threads are them witnessing their faith, and perhaps a confessional for their prior sins. For those in that thread not truly Woke their participation is more like that of a LARPer. The few that try to introduce heterodox thinking get modded.

Good Point, Good point. I would wager you're right, most of the people in those threads probably aren't engaged in any active gaming at the moment. It is fascinating and horrifying a thread like that pops up every couple months. It's exactly as you said, to bare witness and hold mass more or less.

I can't stomach them for very long, after a few pages I gotta tap out at the sheer hypocrisy and fart sniffing happening. In a sense it's sad, because if these individuals really did believe RPGs are now as evil and problematic as they say they are, you'd think they would have left the hobby entirely. But there's still this part of them that clings to it, a vestige that remembers they once had fun playing pretend and doesn't want to entirely let go.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 10, 2022, 05:58:04 PM
Well, this was frankly shocking to me.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/guidance-my-and-pietas-recent-ban.900608/

The fourteen day ban over the 'dirty old man' crack got reversed. I admit I'm stunned.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 10, 2022, 06:09:41 PM
I took a Quick Peek at the big Purple Today and saw this thread.

"Irreconcilable Personal and Setting Ideological Differences"

Which is nothing more than an online struggle session dedicated to each poster outdoing one another on how disgusted they are at 90% of the Tabletop RPGs out there for their 'problematic' content. Everything from Fantasy games for 'race essentialism', historical games for 'colonialism and treatment of BIPOC people', superhero games for being 'facist', and any game where you potentially portray LEO because ACAB.

I seriously had to take a step back and wonder to myself....

What do these people actually play? Like, what are their home games like? What happens in them, what is their favorite way of playing and what do they do?

How are they as GM's and how do they treat their players? Does everyone have to fill out the weird consent forms that Monte Cook made?

I'm only 40 and I feel like "Modern" RPG culture as displayed by the big Purple has morphed into a strange Beast that's supposed to be a stand in for activism and therapy rather than a fun time playing pretend.
The Woke at TBP are in a cult, and the mods there are cult disciplinarians very much focused on preventing anyone from piercing the current Woke orthodoxy as determined by them. When you see a thread like that understand most of those participants probably aren’t in any active games. For the truly devoted Woke those threads are them witnessing their faith, and perhaps a confessional for their prior sins. For those in that thread not truly Woke their participation is more like that of a LARPer. The few that try to introduce heterodox thinking get modded.

Good Point, Good point. I would wager you're right, most of the people in those threads probably aren't engaged in any active gaming at the moment. It is fascinating and horrifying a thread like that pops up every couple months. It's exactly as you said, to bare witness and hold mass more or less.

I can't stomach them for very long, after a few pages I gotta tap out at the sheer hypocrisy and fart sniffing happening. In a sense it's sad, because if these individuals really did believe RPGs are now as evil and problematic as they say they are, you'd think they would have left the hobby entirely. But there's still this part of them that clings to it, a vestige that remembers they once had fun playing pretend and doesn't want to entirely let go.

It's probably those things, but it most surely is the "two minutes hate" from 1984.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 10, 2022, 06:22:11 PM
I took a Quick Peek at the big Purple Today and saw this thread.

"Irreconcilable Personal and Setting Ideological Differences"

Which is nothing more than an online struggle session dedicated to each poster outdoing one another on how disgusted they are at 90% of the Tabletop RPGs out there for their 'problematic' content. Everything from Fantasy games for 'race essentialism', historical games for 'colonialism and treatment of BIPOC people', superhero games for being 'facist', and any game where you potentially portray LEO because ACAB.

I seriously had to take a step back and wonder to myself....

What do these people actually play? Like, what are their home games like? What happens in them, what is their favorite way of playing and what do they do?

How are they as GM's and how do they treat their players? Does everyone have to fill out the weird consent forms that Monte Cook made?

I'm only 40 and I feel like "Modern" RPG culture as displayed by the big Purple has morphed into a strange Beast that's supposed to be a stand in for activism and therapy rather than a fun time playing pretend.

I don't think they play. I think they played at one time, and have stopped playing long ago. Now all they do is talk about other people who play, talk about people who talk about playing, and maybe sometimes read (but not play) indie games and talk about those.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 10, 2022, 06:25:48 PM
Well, this was frankly shocking to me.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/guidance-my-and-pietas-recent-ban.900608/

The fourteen day ban over the 'dirty old man' crack got reversed. I admit I'm stunned.

Wow.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on August 10, 2022, 06:33:54 PM
(snipped to address what I want to address)

... after a few pages I gotta tap out at the sheer hypocrisy and fart sniffing happening. In a sense it's sad, because if these individuals really did believe RPGs are now as evil and problematic as they say they are, you'd think they would have left the hobby entirely. But there's still this part of them that clings to it, a vestige that remembers they once had fun playing pretend and doesn't want to entirely let go.

I don't think it's a vestige; I think it's hate. They don't just want to not play - they want everybody to not play.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 17, 2022, 08:33:18 PM
This has to do with Coyote and Crow, but I think really has more to do with the TBP madness. Actual examples of backers who are too afraid to play the game for fear of sinning against their Woke beliefs. A game can’t grow if it’s just a mantle piece.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/coyote-crow.878051/page-15#post-24300607
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on August 18, 2022, 12:55:21 AM
OK as a descendant of vikings I hereby declare; no more viking-games until you do some soul-searching groveling and apologize for your ignorance of viking-ness. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on August 18, 2022, 01:50:59 AM
OK as a descendant of vikings I hereby declare; no more viking-games until you do some soul-searching groveling and apologize for your ignorance of viking-ness.
Hopefully your helmet has neither horns nor wings.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on August 18, 2022, 02:15:34 AM
OK as a descendant of vikings I hereby declare; no more viking-games until you do some soul-searching groveling and apologize for your ignorance of viking-ness.
Hopefully your helmet has neither horns nor wings.

But can vikings be black?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: HappyDaze on August 18, 2022, 03:25:06 AM
OK as a descendant of vikings I hereby declare; no more viking-games until you do some soul-searching groveling and apologize for your ignorance of viking-ness.
Hopefully your helmet has neither horns nor wings.

But can vikings be black?
Don't get svart with me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on August 18, 2022, 10:46:41 AM
OK as a descendant of vikings I hereby declare; no more viking-games until you do some soul-searching groveling and apologize for your ignorance of viking-ness.
Hopefully your helmet has neither horns nor wings.

But can vikings be black?

Viking is a verb, so why not? A black person could go a-viking.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on August 18, 2022, 04:51:58 PM
The Big Purple continues to be nuts. A read through of the infractions just demonstrates how arbitary they are. Though I do sense a slight weariness in the mods, almost as if they realise they are no longer part of a rpg forum but a full on
re-education camp.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 18, 2022, 05:31:39 PM
The Big Purple continues to be nuts. A read through of the infractions just demonstrates how arbitary they are. Though I do sense a slight weariness in the mods, almost as if they realise they are no longer part of a rpg forum but a full on
re-education camp.
I guess I’m not picking up on any weariness.

It seems it’s official TBP policy that Woke cult politics comes before family, and if you don’t tow that line then you’re probably a Nazi so we’ll have to keep an eye on you Mr. Blarg101:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/blarg101-receives-a-🔴-warning-and-threadban.901006/

Also progressive Woke politics has priority over gaming at all places and all times. The totalitarian Utopia being marched towards allows no reprieve:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/arthur_morgan-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban.901000/

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on August 18, 2022, 10:09:34 PM
It seems it’s official TBP policy that Woke cult politics comes before family, and if you don’t tow that line then you’re probably a Nazi so we’ll have to keep an eye on you Mr. Blarg101:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/blarg101-receives-a-🔴-warning-and-threadban.901006/

"You know who else had a family? Hitler!!"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on August 19, 2022, 08:06:20 AM
It seems it’s official TBP policy that Woke cult politics comes before family, and if you don’t tow that line then you’re probably a Nazi so we’ll have to keep an eye on you Mr. Blarg101:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/blarg101-receives-a-🔴-warning-and-threadban.901006/

"You know who else had a family? Hitler!!"

Lol. Godwin's Law unironically applied.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on August 19, 2022, 10:26:47 AM
It seems it’s official TBP policy that Woke cult politics comes before family, and if you don’t tow that line then you’re probably a Nazi so we’ll have to keep an eye on you Mr. Blarg101:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/blarg101-receives-a-🔴-warning-and-threadban.901006/

"You know who else had a family? Hitler!!"

….and I thought you were kidding!

The guy follows the topic of the thread to a T, and gives his best advice, but clearly there’s only one point of view allowed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 19, 2022, 10:58:13 AM
It seems it’s official TBP policy that Woke cult politics comes before family, and if you don’t tow that line then you’re probably a Nazi so we’ll have to keep an eye on you Mr. Blarg101:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/blarg101-receives-a-🔴-warning-and-threadban.901006/

"You know who else had a family? Hitler!!"

….and I thought you were kidding!

The guy follows the topic of the thread to a T, and gives his best advice, but clearly there’s only one point of view allowed.
I think the guy having a different POV than the mods is only a premise. I think the point is to encourage the separation of members from their families. It’s what cults do.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on August 19, 2022, 01:04:50 PM
I think the guy having a different POV than the mods is only a premise. I think the point is to encourage the separation of members from their families. It’s what cults do.

BTW the OP starts off as a study in cringe, but gets worse from there.

Saying that Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan have a point is just too much, and needs to be ranted about online, and he thinks the the brother is the one who’s “bamboozled”.
But then it gets into Kool-aid territory:
“It feels like all that's left is to cut ties as much as I can.”

WTF?!?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on August 19, 2022, 07:08:26 PM
Saying that Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan have a point is just too much, and needs to be ranted about online, and he thinks the the brother is the one who’s “bamboozled”.
But then it gets into Kool-aid territory: “It feels like all that's left is to cut ties as much as I can.”

WTF?!?

The complete and total lack of self-awareness is also pretty amusing, in a by-amusing-I-mean-infuriating way. "My theory," says the OP, "is that people who fall into the hate trap go even deeper when confronted, however politely it's done, because they don't want to admit they're falling for the lies. They think they're too smart to be gaslit, to be bamboozled." -- without considering for even, as far as I can tell, a microsecond that this is just as accurate a description of his own mindset.

And only the threadbanned poster seems to come even reasonably close to wondering if perhaps, just perhaps, the family members being "cut off" feel just the same way about them, are looking at them with exactly the same condescending pity, are just as frustrated by their refusal to listen or consider the possibility of being wrong. If I tried to post in that thread and said, "I feel exactly the same way -- except I'm a conservative in a family of liberals" -- which happens to be true -- I'd be willing to wager nobody would grant a second's sympathy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 19, 2022, 07:51:47 PM
The Big Purple continues to be nuts. A read through of the infractions just demonstrates how arbitary they are. Though I do sense a slight weariness in the mods, almost as if they realise they are no longer part of a rpg forum but a full on
re-education camp.
I guess I’m not picking up on any weariness.

It seems it’s official TBP policy that Woke cult politics comes before family, and if you don’t tow that line then you’re probably a Nazi so we’ll have to keep an eye on you Mr. Blarg101:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/blarg101-receives-a-🔴-warning-and-threadban.901006/

Also progressive Woke politics has priority over gaming at all places and all times. The totalitarian Utopia being marched towards allows no reprieve:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/arthur_morgan-receives-a-💀-permanent-ban.901000/

Jesus those are particularly obscene. Heck, the second one they didn't even say WHAT the rant was about gender and identity. I think the mods assumed it was a woke rant being cut off, but the poster didn't say or imply anything about what side of that debate he was referencing. Which showed how insecure the moderator was.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on August 19, 2022, 08:15:59 PM
Saying that Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan have a point is just too much, and needs to be ranted about online, and he thinks the the brother is the one who’s “bamboozled”.
But then it gets into Kool-aid territory: “It feels like all that's left is to cut ties as much as I can.”

WTF?!?

The complete and total lack of self-awareness is also pretty amusing, in a by-amusing-I-mean-infuriating way. "My theory," says the OP, "is that people who fall into the hate trap go even deeper when confronted, however politely it's done, because they don't want to admit they're falling for the lies. They think they're too smart to be gaslit, to be bamboozled." -- without considering for even, as far as I can tell, a microsecond that this is just as accurate a description of his own mindset.

And only the threadbanned poster seems to come even reasonably close to wondering if perhaps, just perhaps, the family members being "cut off" feel just the same way about them, are looking at them with exactly the same condescending pity, are just as frustrated by their refusal to listen or consider the possibility of being wrong. If I tried to post in that thread and said, "I feel exactly the same way -- except I'm a conservative in a family of liberals" -- which happens to be true -- I'd be willing to wager nobody would grant a second's sympathy.

I think if you said that you'd be sanctioned for something, perhaps even banned under their infamous Rule 0 (bad fit for the community).

You know it occurs to me that in every other gaming context Rule 0 means have fun.  On TBP it means you're banned...for reasons.   :D 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on August 19, 2022, 08:55:00 PM
Jesus those are particularly obscene. Heck, the second one they didn't even say WHAT the rant was about gender and identity. I think the mods assumed it was a woke rant being cut off, but the poster didn't say or imply anything about what side of that debate he was referencing. Which showed how insecure the moderator was.

You mean this?

"another member would not stop disrupting the game to rant about gender and identity politics."

I suppose it COULD be anti-identity politics rants that he's talking about, but they just assumed this guy was against THEIR politics. I guess most people are, these days.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 20, 2022, 12:37:07 AM
Jesus those are particularly obscene. Heck, the second one they didn't even say WHAT the rant was about gender and identity. I think the mods assumed it was a woke rant being cut off, but the poster didn't say or imply anything about what side of that debate he was referencing. Which showed how insecure the moderator was.

You mean this?

"another member would not stop disrupting the game to rant about gender and identity politics."

I suppose it COULD be anti-identity politics rants that he's talking about, but they just assumed this guy was against THEIR politics. I guess most people are, these days.

Yeah. I mean, if you see a "rant about gender and identity politics" on The Big Purple, it's nearly 100% chance they are ranting about the GOP and Trump and anti-woke people. But in most places that rant is actually anti-identity-politics and anti-trans issues. And for that later view, you'd thing TBP would be pleased such a rant was cut off. It's just weird that they made an assumption about that statement. It's not even pro-woke to do that - it's just plain weird.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Minotaurians on August 20, 2022, 04:40:20 AM
The "family vs. ideology" stuff also shows how staggeringly ignorant those people are about what the Nazi regime was and how it worked.

Through institutions like the Hitler Youth and the Lebensborn, Hitler's Reich actively sought to break the traditional family bonds precisely because they were seen as a potential "competition" to the Führer's absolute and totalitarian authority.

Membership in the Hitler Youth was to become mandatory and its indoctrinated children were actively encouraged to spy upon their own parents and report them to the authorities at the slightest suspicion of disloyalty (or even doubt) toward the regime.

And in the long run, in their projected thousand years reich, the Lebensborn, where women were "welcomed" to "give a child to the Führer", would clearly have replaced the traditional nuclear family as the primary mean to perpetuate the so-called master race.

So yes, Nazism was actually a perfect example of a "party vs. family" situation where ideology and, well, (racial) identity were actively promoted as superior to traditional family bonds.

(Incidentally, this is also one of the key differences between German Nazi ideology and the fascistic doctrines of the French puppet government of Vichy, which had "travail, famille, patrie" as its official motto ("work, family, homeland"), as opposed to the "liberté, égalité, fraternité" motto of the French Republic - but in the end, such differences were only cosmetic salad dressing* and would have been "steamrollered" away in a matter of, say, one or two generations, if Germany had won the war)

(* what I mean here is that the various European brands of fascism (to use the term in its broadest sense) have always adapted their core ideology to the local culture, as shown by the example given about France's collabo régime or with Franquism in Spain, which had very strong ties to the Church or with Mussolini's italian Fascism, which exploited nostalgia for the Roman empire, etc. etc.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on August 20, 2022, 08:03:52 AM
I would love to see a trend of TikTok leftist ranters getting a punch in the mouth mid-rant. TBPers would be good candidates for this corrective beating.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on August 20, 2022, 12:21:23 PM
  All cults must break the family first, and offer a “new family”.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on August 20, 2022, 02:05:50 PM
The "family vs. ideology" stuff also shows how staggeringly ignorant those people are about what the Nazi regime was and how it worked.

Through institutions like the Hitler Youth and the Lebensborn, Hitler's Reich actively sought to break the traditional family bonds precisely because they were seen as a potential "competition" to the Führer's absolute and totalitarian authority.


I was just about to make a similar post, but you beat me to it.  Breaking up traditional family bonds so that the younger generations would owe their loyalty to the State and the Party rather than their families was a deliberate policy of the Nazis.  SJWs are not only very ignorant of history, they typically project their own views and attitudes onto others.  If they were in control, they would pretty much embrace all of Hitler's methodologies.  They wouldn't target groups based on their ethnicity,* but the State and Party over all, the secret police, the complete lack of freedom of speech and of the press, the relentless propaganda glorifying their ideology -- all of those things they would consider OK if it was them in control.


*Well, white people perhaps, and maybe even Asians
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 20, 2022, 03:55:46 PM
The "family vs. ideology" stuff also shows how staggeringly ignorant those people are about what the Nazi regime was and how it worked.

Through institutions like the Hitler Youth and the Lebensborn, Hitler's Reich actively sought to break the traditional family bonds precisely because they were seen as a potential "competition" to the Führer's absolute and totalitarian authority.


I was just about to make a similar post, but you beat me to it.  Breaking up traditional family bonds so that the younger generations would owe their loyalty to the State and the Party rather than their families was a deliberate policy of the Nazis.  SJWs are not only very ignorant of history, they typically project their own views and attitudes onto others.  If they were in control, they would pretty much embrace all of Hitler's methodologies.  They wouldn't target groups based on their ethnicity,* but the State and Party over all, the secret police, the complete lack of freedom of speech and of the press, the relentless propaganda glorifying their ideology -- all of those things they would consider OK if it was them in control.


*Well, white people perhaps, and maybe even Asians
I don’t buy that the SJWs behind this push to break family bonds are ignorant of history. This is deliberate and purposeful.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on August 20, 2022, 06:05:15 PM

I don’t buy that the SJWs behind this push to break family bonds are ignorant of history. This is deliberate and purposeful.

You may be right, I admit.  Isn't there an old saying that goes something like, "Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by simple incompetence"?  When it comes to SJWs, we should probably reverse that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on August 20, 2022, 07:41:05 PM
Eric Hoffer writing in 'The True Believer' astutely notes that every mass movement attempts to breaks the bonds of family during its revolutionary stage. It is necessary because the revolution requires complete commitment and the family is the core commitment that will override virtually every other priority.

I speak as a Catholic when I say Eric Hoffer correctly notes that even early Christianity demanded this.

"Jesus said to his Apostles: “Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s enemies will be those of his household.”

Matthew 10:34-42, Luke 12:49-53

It is later in the stabilisation and conservative development of a movement that family values once again become important.

The problem is that the hard left/progressives are perpetually stuck in the revolutionary phase because they lost three decades ago but refuse to admit it. There will never again be even the chance of a new socialist or communist state in any developed country. They may destroy a culture but what emerges will not be a socialist revolution. And so their efforts are destructive to no purpose.

The hard left sort of remind me of the Chaos Space Marines in WH40K still fighting the Long War 10,000 years later. A war they have already lost.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 21, 2022, 08:29:10 AM
Eric Hoffer writing in 'The True Believer' astutely notes that every mass movement attempts to breaks the bonds of family during its revolutionary stage. It is necessary because the revolution requires complete commitment and the family is the core commitment that will override virtually every other priority.

I speak as a Catholic when I say Eric Hoffer correctly notes that even early Christianity demanded this.

"Jesus said to his Apostles: “Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s enemies will be those of his household.”

Matthew 10:34-42, Luke 12:49-53

It is later in the stabilisation and conservative development of a movement that family values once again become important.

The problem is that the hard left/progressives are perpetually stuck in the revolutionary phase because they lost three decades ago but refuse to admit it. There will never again be even the chance of a new socialist or communist state in any developed country. They may destroy a culture but what emerges will not be a socialist revolution. And so their efforts are destructive to no purpose.

The hard left sort of remind me of the Chaos Space Marines in WH40K still fighting the Long War 10,000 years later. A war they have already lost.
Those are good points. Unfortunately the hard left can still destroy the West (which seems like a misnomer with Japan, South Korea, etc.) even though they have lost the war.

For many on the hard left it seems to be coming out of a sense of spite, but for others I think they believe that they have lost the war, but only for a generation or two. Out of the rubble of a collapse they hope to win in the future.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on August 21, 2022, 01:34:50 PM
Those are good points. Unfortunately the hard left can still destroy the West (which seems like a misnomer with Japan, South Korea, etc.) even though they have lost the war.

For many on the hard left it seems to be coming out of a sense of spite, but for others I think they believe that they have lost the war, but only for a generation or two. Out of the rubble of a collapse they hope to win in the future.

Oh yes, many don't seem to have an end goal at all, screaming and rioting is just what they do.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on August 21, 2022, 10:09:08 PM
Presented without comment, as it’s simply too infuriating for me:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/an-open-letter-to-tim-waters-and-gencon.901125/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/an-open-letter-to-tim-waters-and-gencon.901125/)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 21, 2022, 11:07:27 PM
I would love to see a trend of TikTok leftist ranters getting a punch in the mouth mid-rant. TBPers would be good candidates for this corrective beating.

I, on the other hand, would prefer we not assault and batter people for wrongthink. If you're incapable of refuting what they're saying in a persuasive manner, try harder. Beating people for having an opinion you disagree with is weak and shows your insecurity in your own beliefs.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on August 21, 2022, 11:29:34 PM
I would love to see a trend of TikTok leftist ranters getting a punch in the mouth mid-rant. TBPers would be good candidates for this corrective beating.

I, on the other hand, would prefer we not assault and batter people for wrongthink. If you're incapable of refuting what they're saying in a persuasive manner, try harder. Beating people for having an opinion you disagree with is weak and shows your insecurity in your own beliefs.

Greetings!

*Laughing* "Weak and insecure". No, I don't think so. I think many people are just getting fed up with again--not just people "disagreeing" with them--but violent, smug, arrogant, and condescending Leftists that have long since abandoned any kind of regard or respect for facts, evidence, or reason--let alone respecting someone else that "disagrees" with them. Remember, it is the Leftists that scream and shriek that you are a racist, misogynist, homophobe, Nazi, and full of hate.

I think more people are seeing Leftists as being hate-filled, globalist tyrant rats that need to be curb-stomped. More and more people are sick and tired of seeing friend's lives ruined by Leftists. Their freedoms taken away or threatened. Their children being groomed and brainwashed by depraved Leftist troglodytes.

More and more people are increasingly done talking to Leftists. They are seeing that America needs to be cleansed if their children and America's future is to be safe and secure.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 21, 2022, 11:40:02 PM
I would love to see a trend of TikTok leftist ranters getting a punch in the mouth mid-rant. TBPers would be good candidates for this corrective beating.

I, on the other hand, would prefer we not assault and batter people for wrongthink. If you're incapable of refuting what they're saying in a persuasive manner, try harder. Beating people for having an opinion you disagree with is weak and shows your insecurity in your own beliefs.

Greetings!

*Laughing* "Weak and insecure". No, I don't think so. I think many people are just getting fed up with again--not just people "disagreeing" with them--but violent, smug, arrogant, and condescending Leftists that have long since abandoned any kind of regard or respect for facts, evidence, or reason--let alone respecting someone else that "disagrees" with them. Remember, it is the Leftists that scream and shriek that you are a racist, misogynist, homophobe, Nazi, and full of hate.

I think more people are seeing Leftists as being hate-filled, globalist tyrant rats that need to be curb-stomped. More and more people are sick and tired of seeing friend's lives ruined by Leftists. Their freedoms taken away or threatened. Their children being groomed and brainwashed by depraved Leftist troglodytes.

More and more people are increasingly done talking to Leftists. They are seeing that America needs to be cleansed if their children and America's future is to be safe and secure.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

He said people who rant on TikTok. Unless you're describing words as "violence" now, he very clearly was not referring to people committing violence. Being smug, arrogant, and condescending is not grounds for punching people - if it were, tons of people here would be punched most days. Probably both of us included.

Leftists can call me names all they want. If my position is so weak that I have to resort to punching them because they call me names, my position isn't a worthy one. I'm perfectly competent at calling people names back if they call me names.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on August 21, 2022, 11:43:50 PM
I would love to see a trend of TikTok leftist ranters getting a punch in the mouth mid-rant. TBPers would be good candidates for this corrective beating.

I, on the other hand, would prefer we not assault and batter people for wrongthink. If you're incapable of refuting what they're saying in a persuasive manner, try harder. Beating people for having an opinion you disagree with is weak and shows your insecurity in your own beliefs.

Greetings!

*Laughing* "Weak and insecure". No, I don't think so. I think many people are just getting fed up with again--not just people "disagreeing" with them--but violent, smug, arrogant, and condescending Leftists that have long since abandoned any kind of regard or respect for facts, evidence, or reason--let alone respecting someone else that "disagrees" with them. Remember, it is the Leftists that scream and shriek that you are a racist, misogynist, homophobe, Nazi, and full of hate.

I think more people are seeing Leftists as being hate-filled, globalist tyrant rats that need to be curb-stomped. More and more people are sick and tired of seeing friend's lives ruined by Leftists. Their freedoms taken away or threatened. Their children being groomed and brainwashed by depraved Leftist troglodytes.

More and more people are increasingly done talking to Leftists. They are seeing that America needs to be cleansed if their children and America's future is to be safe and secure.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

He said people who rant on TikTok. Unless you're describing words as "violence" now, he very clearly was not referring to people committing violence. Being smug, arrogant, and condescending is not grounds for punching people - if it were, tons of people here would be punched most days. Probably both of us included.

Leftists can call me names all they want. If my position is so weak that I have to resort to punching them because they call me names, my position isn't a worthy one. I'm perfectly competent at calling people names back if they call me names.

Greetings!

Ahh, I see Mistwell. Ok, TikTok ranters then. I mistakenly broadened my focus to Leftists throughout society at large, doing what they do. Not just Leftists on TikTok running their mouths. *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on August 21, 2022, 11:45:46 PM
I would love to see a trend of TikTok leftist ranters getting a punch in the mouth mid-rant. TBPers would be good candidates for this corrective beating.

I, on the other hand, would prefer we not assault and batter people for wrongthink. If you're incapable of refuting what they're saying in a persuasive manner, try harder. Beating people for having an opinion you disagree with is weak and shows your insecurity in your own beliefs.

That would be nice. However, they are fighting a war and are already in the "attack and assault for wrongthink" stage. The longer we wait before responding in kind - and worse - the more difficult it is going to be.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on August 21, 2022, 11:50:57 PM
Greetings!

It is immensely amusing and satisfying every time I see Leftists in Portland getting their asses beat down by "te evil Conservatives!" Or the Leftist crybabies--acting smug, condescending, and arrogant--while they threaten or attack others at events, suddenly getting *crushed* right to the face, and seeing them drop to the ground, sobbing and begging. ;D That is some A+ entertainment! It's getting close, so close, to when we can watch gladiator events, with these Leftists getting stomped. *Laughing*

Ahh well. Too bad.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on August 21, 2022, 11:53:23 PM
I would love to see a trend of TikTok leftist ranters getting a punch in the mouth mid-rant. TBPers would be good candidates for this corrective beating.

I, on the other hand, would prefer we not assault and batter people for wrongthink. If you're incapable of refuting what they're saying in a persuasive manner, try harder. Beating people for having an opinion you disagree with is weak and shows your insecurity in your own beliefs.

That would be nice. However, they are fighting a war and are already in the "attack and assault for wrongthink" stage. The longer we wait before responding in kind - and worse - the more difficult it is going to be.

Greetings!

Very true! It is rapidly getting to the point where people that oppose the Leftists are going to have to get rough if America is to be saved from Marxism.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on August 22, 2022, 04:54:21 AM
"GenCon is just another con. It's bigger and draws more due to reputation. But there are other options in many other places.

I understand it draws the attention and the press and the best industry support. But if they don't move, it is entirely possible to find another, safer con to attend. In the meantime, posting to the GenCon social media why you cannot attend and how you hope to return at a safer location WILL get their attention. And if they know you will return, that is real good incentive to look for new digs"


From one of the comments on RPG.net. This is sort of the point. The left is very good at getting on social media and sending a message to organisers and giving a disproportionately inflated view of themselves. In that context it is not difficult to see why businesses give in.

Conservatives, moderates, centerists and anyone else who doesn't agree with a hard life shift in society should be getting involved and that only needs to mean dropping a message on social media or sending an email. If you can send a post on a forum complaining about GenCon you can send a message to GenCon.

EDIT: And I've send them a message now...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DefNotAnInsiderNopeNoWay on August 22, 2022, 05:58:58 PM
I would love to see a trend of TikTok leftist ranters getting a punch in the mouth mid-rant. TBPers would be good candidates for this corrective beating.

I, on the other hand, would prefer we not assault and batter people for wrongthink. If you're incapable of refuting what they're saying in a persuasive manner, try harder. Beating people for having an opinion you disagree with is weak and shows your insecurity in your own beliefs.

Greetings!

*Laughing* "Weak and insecure". No, I don't think so. I think many people are just getting fed up with again--not just people "disagreeing" with them--but violent, smug, arrogant, and condescending Leftists that have long since abandoned any kind of regard or respect for facts, evidence, or reason--let alone respecting someone else that "disagrees" with them. Remember, it is the Leftists that scream and shriek that you are a racist, misogynist, homophobe, Nazi, and full of hate.

I think more people are seeing Leftists as being hate-filled, globalist tyrant rats that need to be curb-stomped. More and more people are sick and tired of seeing friend's lives ruined by Leftists. Their freedoms taken away or threatened. Their children being groomed and brainwashed by depraved Leftist troglodytes.

More and more people are increasingly done talking to Leftists. They are seeing that America needs to be cleansed if their children and America's future is to be safe and secure.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


Cool mask-off moment, calling for literal genocide. NICE! I see shit like this and I really do almost wish your wet dreams of a civil war actually come to light and you find out toot-sweet which end of the barrel you'll be on as you and your hog friends get Ashli Babbitt'd, hopefully also on camera.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 22, 2022, 06:09:59 PM
I would love to see a trend of TikTok leftist ranters getting a punch in the mouth mid-rant. TBPers would be good candidates for this corrective beating.

I, on the other hand, would prefer we not assault and batter people for wrongthink. If you're incapable of refuting what they're saying in a persuasive manner, try harder. Beating people for having an opinion you disagree with is weak and shows your insecurity in your own beliefs.

Greetings!

*Laughing* "Weak and insecure". No, I don't think so. I think many people are just getting fed up with again--not just people "disagreeing" with them--but violent, smug, arrogant, and condescending Leftists that have long since abandoned any kind of regard or respect for facts, evidence, or reason--let alone respecting someone else that "disagrees" with them. Remember, it is the Leftists that scream and shriek that you are a racist, misogynist, homophobe, Nazi, and full of hate.

I think more people are seeing Leftists as being hate-filled, globalist tyrant rats that need to be curb-stomped. More and more people are sick and tired of seeing friend's lives ruined by Leftists. Their freedoms taken away or threatened. Their children being groomed and brainwashed by depraved Leftist troglodytes.

More and more people are increasingly done talking to Leftists. They are seeing that America needs to be cleansed if their children and America's future is to be safe and secure.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


Cool mask-off moment, calling for literal genocide. NICE! I see shit like this and I really do almost wish your wet dreams of a civil war actually come to light and you find out toot-sweet which end of the barrel you'll be on as you and your hog friends get Ashli Babbitt'd, hopefully also on camera.
Don't call it a grave.

It's the future you chose.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 22, 2022, 06:12:42 PM
"Hi, I'm Funkadelic, and I don't grok trade or economics."

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/knaight-receives-a-🚫-three-day-ban.901163/

Boy, they are pissed that someone points out that value is a very subjective and relative concept. Imagine! Someone might think your magnum opus isn't worth the paper it's printed on! How DARE they!

*snortgiggle*
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 22, 2022, 06:17:54 PM
I would love to see a trend of TikTok leftist ranters getting a punch in the mouth mid-rant. TBPers would be good candidates for this corrective beating.

I, on the other hand, would prefer we not assault and batter people for wrongthink. If you're incapable of refuting what they're saying in a persuasive manner, try harder. Beating people for having an opinion you disagree with is weak and shows your insecurity in your own beliefs.

That would be nice. However, they are fighting a war and are already in the "attack and assault for wrongthink" stage. The longer we wait before responding in kind - and worse - the more difficult it is going to be.

If someone is physically assaulting you by all means defend yourself. But people ranting on TikTok isn't people assaulting you. Don't punch them for having beliefs you think are stupid and bad.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on August 22, 2022, 07:36:11 PM
I would love to see a trend of TikTok leftist ranters getting a punch in the mouth mid-rant. TBPers would be good candidates for this corrective beating.

I, on the other hand, would prefer we not assault and batter people for wrongthink. If you're incapable of refuting what they're saying in a persuasive manner, try harder. Beating people for having an opinion you disagree with is weak and shows your insecurity in your own beliefs.

Greetings!

*Laughing* "Weak and insecure". No, I don't think so. I think many people are just getting fed up with again--not just people "disagreeing" with them--but violent, smug, arrogant, and condescending Leftists that have long since abandoned any kind of regard or respect for facts, evidence, or reason--let alone respecting someone else that "disagrees" with them. Remember, it is the Leftists that scream and shriek that you are a racist, misogynist, homophobe, Nazi, and full of hate.

I think more people are seeing Leftists as being hate-filled, globalist tyrant rats that need to be curb-stomped. More and more people are sick and tired of seeing friend's lives ruined by Leftists. Their freedoms taken away or threatened. Their children being groomed and brainwashed by depraved Leftist troglodytes.

More and more people are increasingly done talking to Leftists. They are seeing that America needs to be cleansed if their children and America's future is to be safe and secure.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


Cool mask-off moment, calling for literal genocide. NICE! I see shit like this and I really do almost wish your wet dreams of a civil war actually come to light and you find out toot-sweet which end of the barrel you'll be on as you and your hog friends get Ashli Babbitt'd, hopefully also on camera.

Greetings!

*Laughing* What the fuck? I am not calling for GENOCIDE. You must be delusional, and a moron. I have related or described, jackass, what many Americans have been feeling and doing--we can see this fairly easily on TV, the internet, etc, almost on a weekly basis.

Leftist morons have shrieked and called down the thunder, and somehow, it is surprising that many people are simply not having Leftist fucking tyranny? Of course there is going to be violence. beatings. Riots. Marches. Eventually, no doubt, there will be far more than that. *shrugs*

I certainly do not *want* a civil war. However, it is what it is.

As far as what end of a barrel I am on, well, if any Leftard moron wants to step the fuck up and find out, I have plenty of weapons and plenty of ammunition. You see, where I live, it is not ruled or governed by Leftist cock-sucking Marxist tyrants. Where I live, the people are free and even *expected* to be armed and equipped, for whatever kind of chaos that can develop.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on August 23, 2022, 06:25:47 AM
EDITED: Incorrect point and got the wrong end of the stick.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 23, 2022, 08:40:47 AM
The totalitarian impulse shows itself again. I had not realized one could post to a user’s profile. It seems that doing so can constitute badthink, which is also monitored by the moderators. I wouldn’t be surprised if they monitor the “private” messages as well.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/venusboys3-receives-a-🚫-seven-day-ban-deliberate-posting-in-support-of-a-banned-poster.901178/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on August 23, 2022, 09:13:33 AM
Lol. My above post was about this ban and an assumption it was off of a private message. Then realised it was to a profile.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 23, 2022, 02:04:10 PM
The totalitarian impulse shows itself again. I had not realized one could post to a user’s profile. It seems that doing so can constitute badthink, which is also monitored by the moderators. I wouldn’t be surprised if they monitor the “private” messages as well.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/venusboys3-receives-a-🚫-seven-day-ban-deliberate-posting-in-support-of-a-banned-poster.901178/

Good Lord. I'd say just about every conservative I know is more liberal (small "L') than the moderation staff at The Big Purple. The idea that it's a bannable offense to voice dissent in such a direct manner where nobody but the subject will hear you, it's the most timid form of free speech and even that mild dissent is not tolerated.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on August 23, 2022, 02:49:58 PM
So what happened to Bethdragon over there?  She had inherited Tanka's crown as worst-of-the-worst, IMO.  Do you think she got Trotsky'd, or just died from one of the many ailments endemic to blue-haired landwhales?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on August 23, 2022, 03:32:05 PM
So what happened to Bethdragon over there?  She had inherited Tanka's crown as worst-of-the-worst, IMO.  Do you think she got Trotsky'd, or just died from one of the many ailments endemic to blue-haired landwhales?

Hasn’t been online since early July, but still listed as a mod, and no announcement. Maybe she’s just taking a break—we know how hard moderating TBP is, after all.

(I should probably stop lurking as well. That “Open Letter to GenCon” thread has not been conducive to peace and calm, and that’s with my indifference to the convention...)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on August 23, 2022, 05:40:05 PM
The totalitarian impulse shows itself again. I had not realized one could post to a user’s profile. It seems that doing so can constitute badthink, which is also monitored by the moderators. I wouldn’t be surprised if they monitor the “private” messages as well.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/venusboys3-receives-a-🚫-seven-day-ban-deliberate-posting-in-support-of-a-banned-poster.901178/

Good Lord. I'd say just about every conservative I know is more liberal (small "L') than the moderation staff at The Big Purple. The idea that it's a bannable offense to voice dissent in such a direct manner where nobody but the subject will hear you, it's the most timid form of free speech and even that mild dissent is not tolerated.

I've said it before but it is worth repeating that TBP is a fascinating social experiment on actual literal Soviet dictatorship mindset. I am literal about that. A political scientist would have a field day if they wrote a dissertation about it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on August 24, 2022, 12:54:37 AM
Boy, they are pissed that someone points out that value is a very subjective and relative concept.

Yeah, the problem with insisting on being "paid fairly" for a product is that maker/seller and buyer/user are both going to define "fair payment" for a product by different criteria: the seller is going to define it by what he invested into making/acquiring the product and the buyer is going to define it by what he expects to get out of using the product.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on August 24, 2022, 02:08:54 AM


I've said it before but it is worth repeating that TBP is a fascinating social experiment on actual literal Soviet dictatorship mindset. I am literal about that. A political scientist would have a field day if they wrote a dissertation about it.

I agree, and the moderators also remind me of witch trial judges.  (1) To simply be accused, even if just by hearsay, is equivalent to being guilty, and (2) any defense you offer is further proof of your guilt. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on August 24, 2022, 04:58:23 AM
I would love to see a trend of TikTok leftist ranters getting a punch in the mouth mid-rant. TBPers would be good candidates for this corrective beating.

I, on the other hand, would prefer we not assault and batter people for wrongthink. If you're incapable of refuting what they're saying in a persuasive manner, try harder. Beating people for having an opinion you disagree with is weak and shows your insecurity in your own beliefs.

That would be nice. However, they are fighting a war and are already in the "attack and assault for wrongthink" stage. The longer we wait before responding in kind - and worse - the more difficult it is going to be.

If someone is physically assaulting you by all means defend yourself. But people ranting on TikTok isn't people assaulting you. Don't punch them for having beliefs you think are stupid and bad.

 No.  if someone offers credible threat defend yourself.  Wait until you get hit is a pretty good way to get fucked up. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on August 24, 2022, 07:47:34 AM
So what happened to Bethdragon over there?  She had inherited Tanka's crown as worst-of-the-worst, IMO.  Do you think she got Trotsky'd, or just died from one of the many ailments endemic to blue-haired landwhales?

Hasn’t been online since early July, but still listed as a mod, and no announcement. Maybe she’s just taking a break—we know how hard moderating TBP is, after all.

(I should probably stop lurking as well. That “Open Letter to GenCon” thread has not been conducive to peace and calm, and that’s with my indifference to the convention...)

Bethdragon was a dear online friend of mine for over 20 years. We wrote together, gamed together, and visited each other. She was always the nicest person that I'd ever met. I used to joke that everyone loved her except evil people, and even they were ambivalent.

Somewhere along the way, something changed. She stopped replying to my Facebook messages for a long while, and when she finally did, she expressed that she was "tired of being nice".

It really makes me sad.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on August 24, 2022, 08:10:12 AM
So what happened to Bethdragon over there?  She had inherited Tanka's crown as worst-of-the-worst, IMO.  Do you think she got Trotsky'd, or just died from one of the many ailments endemic to blue-haired landwhales?

Hasn’t been online since early July, but still listed as a mod, and no announcement. Maybe she’s just taking a break—we know how hard moderating TBP is, after all.

(I should probably stop lurking as well. That “Open Letter to GenCon” thread has not been conducive to peace and calm, and that’s with my indifference to the convention...)

Bethdragon was a dear online friend of mine for over 20 years. We wrote together, gamed together, and visited each other. She was always the nicest person that I'd ever met. I used to joke that everyone loved her except evil people, and even they were ambivalent.

Somewhere along the way, something changed. She stopped replying to my Facebook messages for a long while, and when she finally did, she expressed that she was "tired of being nice".

It really makes me sad.

That is sad.  Sounds like some sort of mental problems.  I think a lot of these people are broken in some way.  They have no sense of intrinsic self-worth, so they get it by trying to be more virtuous than everybody else, and then wearing that virtue on their sleeves.  I read an article the other day about how "neurodiverse" people have been playing the computer game The Sims for years now as a sort of therapy.  It gives them a "safe" environment that they can control.  I think it's why so many of the TPB types hate dice, hate risk, hate randomness, hate conflict where there's a chance they might get even their imaginary character hurt.  Whereas we glory in RPGs that offer us adventure, the thrill of the unknown, great risks in return for great rewards, their idea of a fun RPG is to cooperatively operate a coffee shop, run a kale farm or attend a prom.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 24, 2022, 09:46:16 AM
I would love to see a trend of TikTok leftist ranters getting a punch in the mouth mid-rant. TBPers would be good candidates for this corrective beating.

I, on the other hand, would prefer we not assault and batter people for wrongthink. If you're incapable of refuting what they're saying in a persuasive manner, try harder. Beating people for having an opinion you disagree with is weak and shows your insecurity in your own beliefs.

That would be nice. However, they are fighting a war and are already in the "attack and assault for wrongthink" stage. The longer we wait before responding in kind - and worse - the more difficult it is going to be.

If someone is physically assaulting you by all means defend yourself. But people ranting on TikTok isn't people assaulting you. Don't punch them for having beliefs you think are stupid and bad.

 No.  if someone offers credible threat defend yourself.  Wait until you get hit is a pretty good way to get fucked up.

Fair enough, but that's still not tiktok rants not directed at you but at ideas and vague groups.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 24, 2022, 10:11:14 AM
Thou shalt not point out the obvious holes in the OneD&D playtest, peasant.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/neila-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-0.901209/

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on August 24, 2022, 10:45:42 AM
Thou shalt not point out the obvious holes in the OneD&D playtest, peasant.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/neila-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-0.901209/

I believe the real issue is this sentence:
"It seems to me that WotC are flailing around in a maelstrom of Wokeness, not quite comprehending what the problem is or what they are supposed to do about it."
Thou cannot under any circumstances question wokeness.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on August 24, 2022, 12:33:44 PM
I would love to see a trend of TikTok leftist ranters getting a punch in the mouth mid-rant. TBPers would be good candidates for this corrective beating.

I, on the other hand, would prefer we not assault and batter people for wrongthink. If you're incapable of refuting what they're saying in a persuasive manner, try harder. Beating people for having an opinion you disagree with is weak and shows your insecurity in your own beliefs.

That would be nice. However, they are fighting a war and are already in the "attack and assault for wrongthink" stage. The longer we wait before responding in kind - and worse - the more difficult it is going to be.

If someone is physically assaulting you by all means defend yourself. But people ranting on TikTok isn't people assaulting you. Don't punch them for having beliefs you think are stupid and bad.

 No.  if someone offers credible threat defend yourself.  Wait until you get hit is a pretty good way to get fucked up.

Fair enough, but that's still not tiktok rants not directed at you but at ideas and vague groups.
Affirmative action is codified threat.  Has been doing big damage for a while.  Fight worthy?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Skullking on August 24, 2022, 02:16:45 PM
Thou shalt not point out the obvious holes in the OneD&D playtest, peasant.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/neila-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-0.901209/
"It seems to me that WotC are flailing around in a maelstrom of Wokeness, not quite comprehending what the problem is or what they are supposed to do about it. We may as well just have one race, and called them "X Lings". An Xling can be anything from 2 foot to 10 foot tall, have wings, or flippers, or scales, or horns or tails. They can be weak or strong, healthy or sickly, clever or stupid. Build your Xling character by choosing from the following list of stats, traits, skills and feats. The end."

Hopefully WotC won't see this otherwise they will probably steal the idea for the next playtest document.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 24, 2022, 02:48:28 PM
Thou shalt not point out the obvious holes in the OneD&D playtest, peasant.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/neila-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-rule-0.901209/
"It seems to me that WotC are flailing around in a maelstrom of Wokeness, not quite comprehending what the problem is or what they are supposed to do about it. We may as well just have one race, and called them "X Lings". An Xling can be anything from 2 foot to 10 foot tall, have wings, or flippers, or scales, or horns or tails. They can be weak or strong, healthy or sickly, clever or stupid. Build your Xling character by choosing from the following list of stats, traits, skills and feats. The end."

Hopefully WotC won't see this otherwise they will probably steal the idea for the next playtest document.
And thus, the Woke’s diversity fetish will be achieved by making everyone essentially the same. Seems like a 1984-like “Freedom is Slavery” slogan could be created from this.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on August 24, 2022, 07:07:49 PM
So what happened to Bethdragon over there?  She had inherited Tanka's crown as worst-of-the-worst, IMO.  Do you think she got Trotsky'd, or just died from one of the many ailments endemic to blue-haired landwhales?

Hasn’t been online since early July, but still listed as a mod, and no announcement. Maybe she’s just taking a break—we know how hard moderating TBP is, after all.

(I should probably stop lurking as well. That “Open Letter to GenCon” thread has not been conducive to peace and calm, and that’s with my indifference to the convention...)

Bethdragon was a dear online friend of mine for over 20 years. We wrote together, gamed together, and visited each other. She was always the nicest person that I'd ever met. I used to joke that everyone loved her except evil people, and even they were ambivalent.

Somewhere along the way, something changed. She stopped replying to my Facebook messages for a long while, and when she finally did, she expressed that she was "tired of being nice".

It really makes me sad.

I’m sorry, man.  That’s sad to hear, and I’m sorry she made that choice.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 25, 2022, 01:02:57 AM
So what happened to Bethdragon over there?  She had inherited Tanka's crown as worst-of-the-worst, IMO.  Do you think she got Trotsky'd, or just died from one of the many ailments endemic to blue-haired landwhales?

Hasn’t been online since early July, but still listed as a mod, and no announcement. Maybe she’s just taking a break—we know how hard moderating TBP is, after all.

(I should probably stop lurking as well. That “Open Letter to GenCon” thread has not been conducive to peace and calm, and that’s with my indifference to the convention...)

Bethdragon was a dear online friend of mine for over 20 years. We wrote together, gamed together, and visited each other. She was always the nicest person that I'd ever met. I used to joke that everyone loved her except evil people, and even they were ambivalent.

Somewhere along the way, something changed. She stopped replying to my Facebook messages for a long while, and when she finally did, she expressed that she was "tired of being nice".

It really makes me sad.

I’m sorry, man.  That’s sad to hear, and I’m sorry she made that choice.

Ditto.

It's hard to remember that no matter how much they infuriate us, the mods at RPG.net are just people. I happen to think they're people who have taken ideology too far on a message board (and probably in RL) and become the things they profess to hate, but my hope is that they come to their senses eventually.

Because the alternative is what we've got going on now, and that sucks.

I hope BethDragon is ok.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abraxus on August 25, 2022, 09:58:30 AM
I don’t know Bethdrshon personally yet even if I did it’s not someone who I would want to be around.

Unless something happened in her life some kind of mental and/or physical abuse it’s one thing. I can excuse the bad behaviour. If not I don’t want that kind of toxic person in my life.

Basically saying “ tired of being nice” shows the person was never nice to begin with and possibly a borderline sociopath if not one already. Normal people don’t get tired of being nice.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on August 25, 2022, 11:03:58 AM
So what happened to Bethdragon over there?  She had inherited Tanka's crown as worst-of-the-worst, IMO.  Do you think she got Trotsky'd, or just died from one of the many ailments endemic to blue-haired landwhales?

Hasn’t been online since early July, but still listed as a mod, and no announcement. Maybe she’s just taking a break—we know how hard moderating TBP is, after all.

(I should probably stop lurking as well. That “Open Letter to GenCon” thread has not been conducive to peace and calm, and that’s with my indifference to the convention...)

Bethdragon was a dear online friend of mine for over 20 years. We wrote together, gamed together, and visited each other. She was always the nicest person that I'd ever met. I used to joke that everyone loved her except evil people, and even they were ambivalent.

Somewhere along the way, something changed. She stopped replying to my Facebook messages for a long while, and when she finally did, she expressed that she was "tired of being nice".

It really makes me sad.

I’m sorry, man.  That’s sad to hear, and I’m sorry she made that choice.

Ditto.

It's hard to remember that no matter how much they infuriate us, the mods at RPG.net are just people. I happen to think they're people who have taken ideology too far on a message board (and probably in RL) and become the things they profess to hate, but my hope is that they come to their senses eventually.

Because the alternative is what we've got going on now, and that sucks.

I hope BethDragon is ok.

While I don't want wish anyone ill and I sincerely hope BethDragon is getting support for any mental health issues she has, the people the mods are banning are also people.  They are generally being pushed out of an avenue to express themselves and enjoy their hobby merely for expressing wrong opinions.

Often bullies are the most unhappy people around.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bunch on August 25, 2022, 11:23:59 AM
I don’t know Bethdrshon personally yet even if I did it’s not someone who I would want to be around.

Unless something happened in her life some kind of mental and/or physical abuse it’s one thing. I can excuse the bad behaviour. If not I don’t want that kind of toxic person in my life.

Basically saying “ tired of being nice” shows the person was never nice to begin with and possibly a borderline sociopath if not one already. Normal people don’t get tired of being nice.
Yes they can. When all they get for being nice is people abusing it or taking advantage of it they learn just like anyone else.  Most people call it retail work
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on August 25, 2022, 11:35:34 AM
Well, it's finally happened.

Someone's caught a permaban for not wanting to call the opposition Nazis. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sydneyfreedberg-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.901312/)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 25, 2022, 12:03:20 PM
Well, it's finally happened.

Someone's caught a permaban for not wanting to call the opposition Nazis. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sydneyfreedberg-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.901312/)
How long before TBP accuse the Anti-Defamation League of being Nazi sympathizers?

https://www.adl.org/blog/lets-avoid-holocaust-analogies-in-the-public-square
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on August 25, 2022, 12:07:14 PM
Well, it's finally happened.

Someone's caught a permaban for not wanting to call the opposition Nazis. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sydneyfreedberg-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.901312/)

There's a pattern I see with a lot of movements.  The movement starts by saying "Just don't be BAD."  Most people think "Yeah, that's reasonable" and kind of go along.  After a while, though, the message has been more or less accepted by a lot of the population.  The movement, however, still needs to move so they progress to "It's not enough to not be bad ... you need to proactively be GOOD."

There's often some pushback ... the movement has expanded their parameters and some supporters aren't as comfortable with this.  However, again, a lot of people are okay with it.  After all, being good isn't too hard to do, right?

Unfortunately, the movements then progress to Stage 3 ... "You're not being good ENOUGH."

The movement always eats its own, eventually.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abraxus on August 25, 2022, 12:09:15 PM

Yes they can. When all they get for being nice is people abusing it or taking advantage of it they learn just like anyone else.  Most people call it retail work

Absolute Bullshit.

Unless they went through some kind of physical or mental trauma or both. Or worse they were taken advantage by someone for being too nice then I get being cynical and not wanting to be nice.

Starting out as a good and nice person then suddenly turning into a jerk for no reason yeah no. Not unless a gun is held at their head forcing them to act a certain way.

I did face to face retail work for 15 years and I never lost  who I was.

Otherwise it comes off as an apologist for bad behaviour. Unless their is a valid reason I’m too old to cater to people who insist on behaving badly.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on August 25, 2022, 12:39:55 PM
Well, it's finally happened.

Someone's caught a permaban for not wanting to call the opposition Nazis. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sydneyfreedberg-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.901312/)

SydneyFreedberg: Say, I am ok with killing kids, but I am a bit uncomfortable with trivialising the Holocaust...maybe we shouldn't.

DawgStar(as rep. For RPG.net): Ah no, we're antisemitic and we like killing kids. I don't think you're going to be a good fit....PURGED!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on August 25, 2022, 12:44:11 PM
Well, it's finally happened.

Someone's caught a permaban for not wanting to call the opposition Nazis. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sydneyfreedberg-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.901312/)
How long before TBP accuse the Anti-Defamation League of being Nazi sympathizers?

https://www.adl.org/blog/lets-avoid-holocaust-analogies-in-the-public-square

I mean it would be pretty easy to start a thread on TBP copy and pasting this with a little bit of editing without attributation and see the reaction.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 25, 2022, 01:42:44 PM
I don’t know Bethdrshon personally yet even if I did it’s not someone who I would want to be around.

Unless something happened in her life some kind of mental and/or physical abuse it’s one thing. I can excuse the bad behaviour. If not I don’t want that kind of toxic person in my life.

Basically saying “ tired of being nice” shows the person was never nice to begin with and possibly a borderline sociopath if not one already. Normal people don’t get tired of being nice.

I know several parents who were beat down by circumstances over time where they just got tired of being nice to people who pissed them off and who got a short temper where they used to be patient. They were genuinely nice people at one time, but life just ground them down. I keep hoping, as their kids get older, their old selves might rise to the surface more.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on August 25, 2022, 01:46:59 PM
Well, it's finally happened.

Someone's caught a permaban for not wanting to call the opposition Nazis. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sydneyfreedberg-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.901312/)
How long before TBP accuse the Anti-Defamation League of being Nazi sympathizers?

https://www.adl.org/blog/lets-avoid-holocaust-analogies-in-the-public-square

I mean, it looks like they just did. They would say the views of the ADL are not a good fit for their forum.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Skullking on August 25, 2022, 02:09:45 PM
Well, it's finally happened.

Someone's caught a permaban for not wanting to call the opposition Nazis. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sydneyfreedberg-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.901312/)

In this case I agree with the Mod. A reasonably sane person like that isn't a good fit for the site.
The more I see of RPGNet, the more I think 'what a bunch of cunts'.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abraxus on August 25, 2022, 02:33:00 PM


I know several parents who were beat down by circumstances over time where they just got tired of being nice to people who pissed them off and who got a short temper where they used to be patient. They were genuinely nice people at one time, but life just ground them down. I keep hoping, as their kids get older, their old selves might rise to the surface more.

Of course as long as it’s not just something that came out of nowhere. The OP made it sound like BBD simply just no longer wanted to be nice. We have all had such days for sure. To live one life like that one loses their friends maybe even family because it takes too much effort especially mentally. Best way someone I knew put was to tell me to ask myself “ being I friends does it feel like a friendship or like work.

When it’s the second one either tries to help the person if wanted or simply walk away before you turn into them because it is draining emotionally and mentally imo. An effort should be made but if they don’t want the help then you get to walk away.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 25, 2022, 08:32:28 PM
So what happened to Bethdragon over there?  She had inherited Tanka's crown as worst-of-the-worst, IMO.  Do you think she got Trotsky'd, or just died from one of the many ailments endemic to blue-haired landwhales?

Hasn’t been online since early July, but still listed as a mod, and no announcement. Maybe she’s just taking a break—we know how hard moderating TBP is, after all.

(I should probably stop lurking as well. That “Open Letter to GenCon” thread has not been conducive to peace and calm, and that’s with my indifference to the convention...)

Bethdragon was a dear online friend of mine for over 20 years. We wrote together, gamed together, and visited each other. She was always the nicest person that I'd ever met. I used to joke that everyone loved her except evil people, and even they were ambivalent.

Somewhere along the way, something changed. She stopped replying to my Facebook messages for a long while, and when she finally did, she expressed that she was "tired of being nice".

It really makes me sad.

I’m sorry, man.  That’s sad to hear, and I’m sorry she made that choice.

Ditto.

It's hard to remember that no matter how much they infuriate us, the mods at RPG.net are just people. I happen to think they're people who have taken ideology too far on a message board (and probably in RL) and become the things they profess to hate, but my hope is that they come to their senses eventually.

Because the alternative is what we've got going on now, and that sucks.

I hope BethDragon is ok.

While I don't want wish anyone ill and I sincerely hope BethDragon is getting support for any mental health issues she has, the people the mods are banning are also people.  They are generally being pushed out of an avenue to express themselves and enjoy their hobby merely for expressing wrong opinions.

Often bullies are the most unhappy people around.

Quote
my hope is that they come to their senses eventually.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on August 25, 2022, 08:43:22 PM
Well, it's finally happened.

Someone's caught a permaban for not wanting to call the opposition Nazis. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sydneyfreedberg-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.901312/)

In this case I agree with the Mod. A reasonably sane person like that isn't a good fit for the site.
The more I see of RPGNet, the more I think 'what a bunch of cunts'.

That sums it up nicely.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on August 26, 2022, 04:01:34 PM
Yeah, I'm neither interested in hanging out with a bunch of people who want to shriek that everyone disagreeing with them are literal genocider nazis, nor in being somewhere with a pack of assholes for moderator staff.  My beef is that rpg.net used to be an actual decent site where people could come together to talk nerd things about RPGs without constant purity spirals, and that community got driven away by the cretins and ratcheting upwards of far-left hysteria.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 26, 2022, 07:03:29 PM
Yeah, I'm neither interested in hanging out with a bunch of people who want to shriek that everyone disagreeing with them are literal genocider nazis, nor in being somewhere with a pack of assholes for moderator staff.  My beef is that rpg.net used to be an actual decent site where people could come together to talk nerd things about RPGs without constant purity spirals, and that community got driven away by the cretins and ratcheting upwards of far-left hysteria.
That's been the proverbial pebble in my shoe for a while. The fact that the place calling itself 'RPG.net' is basically a hive of stupid wokeist politics, moderated by people with hair-trigger tempers and a cheerful willingness to kick people off for frankly innocuous postings.

I feel sorry for any new player looking for information who stumbles into that hellhole.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on August 27, 2022, 03:48:34 PM
Yeah, I'm neither interested in hanging out with a bunch of people who want to shriek that everyone disagreeing with them are literal genocider nazis, nor in being somewhere with a pack of assholes for moderator staff.  My beef is that rpg.net used to be an actual decent site where people could come together to talk nerd things about RPGs without constant purity spirals, and that community got driven away by the cretins and ratcheting upwards of far-left hysteria.

Yes, this agreed. I remember when TBP used to be a site with a lot of great discussion. But just like toxic friends, I had to leave it behind.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 29, 2022, 05:47:25 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ahndrostalgan-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-downplaying-sexism-and-dismissal-of-minority-concerns.901454/

I am kind of at a loss here.

It appears to me that ahndrostalgan is pointing out that the solution to the problem of GenCon being in a 'regressive' (their view, mind you) state is not as simply as boycott/move elsewhere.

But because bcaugust54 is an incoherent moron who can't read, and can't stand that people might not march in lockstep with it, here comes the banhammer.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on August 29, 2022, 06:00:36 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ahndrostalgan-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-downplaying-sexism-and-dismissal-of-minority-concerns.901454/

I am kind of at a loss here.

It appears to me that ahndrostalgan is pointing out that the solution to the problem of GenCon being in a 'regressive' (their view, mind you) state is not as simply as boycott/move elsewhere.

But because bcaugust54 is an incoherent moron who can't read, and can't stand that people might not march in lockstep with it, here comes the banhammer.
I think I can explain. The boycott Indiana discussion is fundamentally a Two Minutes of Hate session. (Not exactly literally, because it would be a blessing if it lasted only 2 minutes.) The point is to identify an object of hate, and get everyone engaged in a process of groupthink. It’s a brainwashing technique. Anything that interrupts the Two Minutes of Hate must be stopped, otherwise the technique loses its effect.

The offending poster sounds like he’s on the progressive side, but he’s interrupting the 2MOH with some factual concerns. That his concerns may be legitimate is besides the point. He’s interrupting the 2MOH, and therefore has to get banned for a significant amount of time.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on August 30, 2022, 06:26:23 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ahndrostalgan-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-downplaying-sexism-and-dismissal-of-minority-concerns.901454/

I am kind of at a loss here.

It appears to me that ahndrostalgan is pointing out that the solution to the problem of GenCon being in a 'regressive' (their view, mind you) state is not as simply as boycott/move elsewhere.

But because bcaugust54 is an incoherent moron who can't read, and can't stand that people might not march in lockstep with it, here comes the banhammer.
I think I can explain. The boycott Indiana discussion is fundamentally a Two Minutes of Hate session. (Not exactly literally, because it would be a blessing if it lasted only 2 minutes.) The point is to identify an object of hate, and get everyone engaged in a process of groupthink. It’s a brainwashing technique. Anything that interrupts the Two Minutes of Hate must be stopped, otherwise the technique loses its effect.

The offending poster sounds like he’s on the progressive side, but he’s interrupting the 2MOH with some factual concerns. That his concerns may be legitimate is besides the point. He’s interrupting the 2MOH, and therefore has to get banned for a significant amount of time.

I think this is correct. 

Note also that the line of argument in the thread has moved from a political disagreement about a social policy to a literal direct safety concern. Essentially a raising of the stakes from an issue that can be solved with discussion and compromise to a purely emotional argument where direct force cam be employed and justified. It's actually quite scary to watch the slow motion development of extremism and the justification of violence.

(I don't think this is hyperbole, earlier in the thread the direct through line that equated anyone who disagrees with abortion with literal Nazis was made).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on August 30, 2022, 06:31:04 PM
  LMAO...."people capable of being pregnant"  God damn these fucking idiots are so far up their own asses they can not even just say women any more.   Human rights....Shit heads can not even say women get pregnant are going to lecture about human rights. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on August 30, 2022, 07:26:29 PM
  LMAO...."people capable of being pregnant"  God damn these fucking idiots are so far up their own asses they can not even just say women any more.   Human rights....Shit heads can not even say women get pregnant are going to lecture about human rights.
It's either insane or it's a calculated and cynical attempt to erase women. "Women aren't special. Anyone can be a women!"

The human race would not exist without women. As a man, I can say I fucking love women and am thrilled they exist. Other differences aside, I respect the feminists who are fighting this kind of utter bullshit (JKR, Megan Murphy, etc.).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bunch on August 30, 2022, 11:02:12 PM
To be fair there are women who can't get pregnant for various reasons.  So when your talking about abortion laws the actually ability to get pregnant is more specific than female.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on August 30, 2022, 11:09:15 PM
To be fair there are women who can't get pregnant for various reasons.  So when your talking about abortion laws the actually ability to get pregnant is more specific than female.

But they're still genetically capable of having once had the potential to become pregnant.  If your vagina is due to the talents of a surgeon rather than because you were born with it, you'll *never* have the capability of becoming pregnant.

A woman whose womb is barren and a man who has surgery to turn his penis inside out and make it into a vagina are not the same.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 30, 2022, 11:28:43 PM
To be fair there are women who can't get pregnant for various reasons.  So when your talking about abortion laws the actually ability to get pregnant is more specific than female.

No it isn't you doorknob.

In the same way that the existence of genetic disorders don't create a third sex, ONLY females can get pregnant, in the case of us humans ONLY Adult Human Females, which is the definition of?

WOMEN!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Skullking on August 31, 2022, 04:11:18 AM
You all know the words, so please sing along:

"When a man loves a 'people capable of being pregnant'..."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on August 31, 2022, 06:31:54 AM
To be fair there are women who can't get pregnant for various reasons.  So when your talking about abortion laws the actually ability to get pregnant is more specific than female.

No it isn't you doorknob.

In the same way that the existence of genetic disorders don't create a third sex, ONLY females can get pregnant, in the case of us humans ONLY Adult Human Females, which is the definition of?

WOMEN!

I wonder if that's the reason so many leftists want to have sex with children now instead of adults?  If males can be females but only adults can get pregnant, then I could easily see how their twisted logic can be saying "just have sex with boys dressed like girls." Explains a lot about their mental illness...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 31, 2022, 11:46:53 AM
To be fair there are women who can't get pregnant for various reasons.  So when your talking about abortion laws the actually ability to get pregnant is more specific than female.

No it isn't you doorknob.

In the same way that the existence of genetic disorders don't create a third sex, ONLY females can get pregnant, in the case of us humans ONLY Adult Human Females, which is the definition of?

WOMEN!

I wonder if that's the reason so many leftists want to have sex with children now instead of adults?  If males can be females but only adults can get pregnant, then I could easily see how their twisted logic can be saying "just have sex with boys dressed like girls." Explains a lot about their mental illness...

Pedophilia is baked into the fundational texts of leftism, as in the french philosophers. Ask Pundit or go watch the Podcast of the Lotus Eaters (they have one or two videos about it).

It's why the leftist German Government placed orphan children with KNOWN pedophiles to prevent German society from becoming Nazi again.

So is every other degeneracy, because to hold ANYTHING as sacred is a sign (to the leftist) that you're a crypto-fascist.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Skullking on August 31, 2022, 12:44:32 PM
To be fair there are women who can't get pregnant for various reasons.  So when your talking about abortion laws the actually ability to get pregnant is more specific than female.

No it isn't you doorknob.

In the same way that the existence of genetic disorders don't create a third sex, ONLY females can get pregnant, in the case of us humans ONLY Adult Human Females, which is the definition of?

WOMEN!

I wonder if that's the reason so many leftists want to have sex with children now instead of adults?  If males can be females but only adults can get pregnant, then I could easily see how their twisted logic can be saying "just have sex with boys dressed like girls." Explains a lot about their mental illness...

Pedophilia is baked into the fundational texts of leftism, as in the french philosophers. Ask Pundit or go watch the Podcast of the Lotus Eaters (they have one or two videos about it).

It's why the leftist German Government placed orphan children with KNOWN pedophiles to prevent German society from becoming Nazi again.

So is every other degeneracy, because to hold ANYTHING as sacred is a sign (to the leftist) that you're a crypto-fascist.
Also see the Pedophile Information Exchange who were granted affiliate status by the National Council for Civil Liberties in the UK.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on August 31, 2022, 01:07:18 PM
You all know the words, so please sing along:

"When a man loves a 'people capable of being pregnant'..."

Only myself and my fellow biologists are allowed to sing that song.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on September 07, 2022, 08:45:20 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/ahndrostalgan-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban-downplaying-sexism-and-dismissal-of-minority-concerns.901454/

I am kind of at a loss here.

It appears to me that ahndrostalgan is pointing out that the solution to the problem of GenCon being in a 'regressive' (their view, mind you) state is not as simply as boycott/move elsewhere.

But because bcaugust54 is an incoherent moron who can't read, and can't stand that people might not march in lockstep with it, here comes the banhammer.

The mod in question did not understand the "sliver of attendees" aspect of that comment. The poster doesn't mean "women who can get pregnant are only a sliver of attendees." The poster was saying "the portion of attendees who can not just get pregnant, but who would actually get pregnant in that specific four day window during the convention, and who would want to abort that pregnancy which happened in those four days, and who would actually face difficulty in receiving that abortion because the conception happened in Indiana specifically (which is nearly impossible to prove)" is a "sliver" of total attendees.

Which of course it is. Of the FIFTY THOUSAND attendees, the number who could get pregnant is less than half, and of those the number who would get pregnant during that 4 day window is extremely small (like 1 or 2) and the number of THOSE who wanted to abort the pregnancy is likely 0 to 1, and the number of those who would have difficulty getting that abortion elsewhere because of Indiana laws is likely none. Because even if Indiana COULD prosecute for an abortion you got in a different state regarding a pregnancy conceived in their state (which itself is VERY VERY unlikely), there is about zero chance they could prove the conception happened in that four day window in their state.

So yeah, ZERO or at extreme most ONE is a "sliver" of 50,000 people.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on September 08, 2022, 02:32:15 AM
The mod in question did not understand the "sliver of attendees" aspect of that comment. The poster doesn't mean "women who can get pregnant are only a sliver of attendees." The poster was saying "the portion of attendees who can not just get pregnant, but who would actually get pregnant in that specific four day window during the convention, and who would want to abort that pregnancy which happened in those four days, and who would actually face difficulty in receiving that abortion because the conception happened in Indiana specifically (which is nearly impossible to prove)" is a "sliver" of total attendees.

Which of course it is.

Purely for twisted self-amusement value I took a pass through those numbers:

- Assuming 50,000 attendees, let's be generous and say 40% are (biological) women: 20,000.
- Assume 90% of those are within the likely childbearing ages of 18-45: 18,000.
- Assume 25% of those are in the roughly 7-day fertile period per month that covers that weekend: 4,500.
- Assume 50% of those are either accompanying a steady boyfriend to the con or have a heterosexual hookup while there: 2,250.
- Assume 10% of those have contraceptive failure of some type: 225.
- Assume only a quarter of those actually conceive, because even in absolutely optimum circumstances the chance of actual conception for any one individual act is only about 25%: 56 (rounding down).
- Assume that even in the highly anti-parental RPG hobby environment, at least 20% of the women who find themselves pregnant will want to keep the baby once they know: 45.

So while I don't think "0 to 1" is quite accurate, a percentage of less than 0.1% certainly qualifies as "a sliver". And, of course, it is more than likely that several of these estimates are over-generous, which means the reality would only be even lower.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on September 08, 2022, 07:07:47 AM
The mod in question did not understand the "sliver of attendees" aspect of that comment. The poster doesn't mean "women who can get pregnant are only a sliver of attendees." The poster was saying "the portion of attendees who can not just get pregnant, but who would actually get pregnant in that specific four day window during the convention, and who would want to abort that pregnancy which happened in those four days, and who would actually face difficulty in receiving that abortion because the conception happened in Indiana specifically (which is nearly impossible to prove)" is a "sliver" of total attendees.

Which of course it is.

Purely for twisted self-amusement value I took a pass through those numbers:

- Assuming 50,000 attendees, let's be generous and say 40% are (biological) women: 20,000.
- Assume 90% of those are within the likely childbearing ages of 18-45: 18,000.
- Assume 25% of those are in the roughly 7-day fertile period per month that covers that weekend: 4,500.
- Assume 50% of those are either accompanying a steady boyfriend to the con or have a heterosexual hookup while there: 2,250.
- Assume 10% of those have contraceptive failure of some type: 225.
- Assume only a quarter of those actually conceive, because even in absolutely optimum circumstances the chance of actual conception for any one individual act is only about 25%: 56 (rounding down).
- Assume that even in the highly anti-parental RPG hobby environment, at least 20% of the women who find themselves pregnant will want to keep the baby once they know: 45.

So while I don't think "0 to 1" is quite accurate, a percentage of less than 0.1% certainly qualifies as "a sliver". And, of course, it is more than likely that several of these estimates are over-generous, which means the reality would only be even lower.

Dude. It's a gaming convention. The only thing getting pregnant is the hotel hot tub, which will end up looking like a cup of egg drop soup.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 08, 2022, 07:50:34 AM
The mod in question did not understand the "sliver of attendees" aspect of that comment. The poster doesn't mean "women who can get pregnant are only a sliver of attendees." The poster was saying "the portion of attendees who can not just get pregnant, but who would actually get pregnant in that specific four day window during the convention, and who would want to abort that pregnancy which happened in those four days, and who would actually face difficulty in receiving that abortion because the conception happened in Indiana specifically (which is nearly impossible to prove)" is a "sliver" of total attendees.

Which of course it is.

Purely for twisted self-amusement value I took a pass through those numbers:

- Assuming 50,000 attendees, let's be generous and say 40% are (biological) women: 20,000.
- Assume 90% of those are within the likely childbearing ages of 18-45: 18,000.
- Assume 25% of those are in the roughly 7-day fertile period per month that covers that weekend: 4,500.
- Assume 50% of those are either accompanying a steady boyfriend to the con or have a heterosexual hookup while there: 2,250.
- Assume 10% of those have contraceptive failure of some type: 225.
- Assume only a quarter of those actually conceive, because even in absolutely optimum circumstances the chance of actual conception for any one individual act is only about 25%: 56 (rounding down).
- Assume that even in the highly anti-parental RPG hobby environment, at least 20% of the women who find themselves pregnant will want to keep the baby once they know: 45.

So while I don't think "0 to 1" is quite accurate, a percentage of less than 0.1% certainly qualifies as "a sliver". And, of course, it is more than likely that several of these estimates are over-generous, which means the reality would only be even lower.

Dude. It's a gaming convention. The only thing getting pregnant is the hotel hot tub, which will end up looking like a cup of egg drop soup.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/UnrulyShorttermBassethound-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on September 08, 2022, 07:12:58 PM
The mod in question did not understand the "sliver of attendees" aspect of that comment. The poster doesn't mean "women who can get pregnant are only a sliver of attendees." The poster was saying "the portion of attendees who can not just get pregnant, but who would actually get pregnant in that specific four day window during the convention, and who would want to abort that pregnancy which happened in those four days, and who would actually face difficulty in receiving that abortion because the conception happened in Indiana specifically (which is nearly impossible to prove)" is a "sliver" of total attendees.

Which of course it is.

Purely for twisted self-amusement value I took a pass through those numbers:

- Assuming 50,000 attendees, let's be generous and say 40% are (biological) women: 20,000.
- Assume 90% of those are within the likely childbearing ages of 18-45: 18,000.
- Assume 25% of those are in the roughly 7-day fertile period per month that covers that weekend: 4,500.
- Assume 50% of those are either accompanying a steady boyfriend to the con or have a heterosexual hookup while there: 2,250.
- Assume 10% of those have contraceptive failure of some type: 225.
- Assume only a quarter of those actually conceive, because even in absolutely optimum circumstances the chance of actual conception for any one individual act is only about 25%: 56 (rounding down).
- Assume that even in the highly anti-parental RPG hobby environment, at least 20% of the women who find themselves pregnant will want to keep the baby once they know: 45.

So while I don't think "0 to 1" is quite accurate, a percentage of less than 0.1% certainly qualifies as "a sliver". And, of course, it is more than likely that several of these estimates are over-generous, which means the reality would only be even lower.

Dude. It's a gaming convention. The only thing getting pregnant is the hotel hot tub, which will end up looking like a cup of egg drop soup.

I will not thank you for that image.

In other news this TBP thread is getting spicy

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/queen-elizabeth-has-died-london-bridge-has-fallen.901876/

Trust the Big Purple to turn simple paying respects into a circus...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 08, 2022, 07:45:58 PM
The mod in question did not understand the "sliver of attendees" aspect of that comment. The poster doesn't mean "women who can get pregnant are only a sliver of attendees." The poster was saying "the portion of attendees who can not just get pregnant, but who would actually get pregnant in that specific four day window during the convention, and who would want to abort that pregnancy which happened in those four days, and who would actually face difficulty in receiving that abortion because the conception happened in Indiana specifically (which is nearly impossible to prove)" is a "sliver" of total attendees.

Which of course it is.

Purely for twisted self-amusement value I took a pass through those numbers:

- Assuming 50,000 attendees, let's be generous and say 40% are (biological) women: 20,000.
- Assume 90% of those are within the likely childbearing ages of 18-45: 18,000.
- Assume 25% of those are in the roughly 7-day fertile period per month that covers that weekend: 4,500.
- Assume 50% of those are either accompanying a steady boyfriend to the con or have a heterosexual hookup while there: 2,250.
- Assume 10% of those have contraceptive failure of some type: 225.
- Assume only a quarter of those actually conceive, because even in absolutely optimum circumstances the chance of actual conception for any one individual act is only about 25%: 56 (rounding down).
- Assume that even in the highly anti-parental RPG hobby environment, at least 20% of the women who find themselves pregnant will want to keep the baby once they know: 45.

So while I don't think "0 to 1" is quite accurate, a percentage of less than 0.1% certainly qualifies as "a sliver". And, of course, it is more than likely that several of these estimates are over-generous, which means the reality would only be even lower.

Dude. It's a gaming convention. The only thing getting pregnant is the hotel hot tub, which will end up looking like a cup of egg drop soup.

I will not thank you for that image.

In other news this TPB thread is getting spicy

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/queen-elizabeth-has-died-london-bridge-has-fallen.901876/

Trust the Big Purple to turn simple paying respects into a circus...

Not gonna log in, but I imagine it's like social media has been over the past day. Paying respects sprinkled with various "progressives" doing some grave dancing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on September 09, 2022, 12:12:27 AM
The mod in question did not understand the "sliver of attendees" aspect of that comment. The poster doesn't mean "women who can get pregnant are only a sliver of attendees." The poster was saying "the portion of attendees who can not just get pregnant, but who would actually get pregnant in that specific four day window during the convention, and who would want to abort that pregnancy which happened in those four days, and who would actually face difficulty in receiving that abortion because the conception happened in Indiana specifically (which is nearly impossible to prove)" is a "sliver" of total attendees.

Which of course it is.

Purely for twisted self-amusement value I took a pass through those numbers:

- Assuming 50,000 attendees, let's be generous and say 40% are (biological) women: 20,000.
- Assume 90% of those are within the likely childbearing ages of 18-45: 18,000.
- Assume 25% of those are in the roughly 7-day fertile period per month that covers that weekend: 4,500.
- Assume 50% of those are either accompanying a steady boyfriend to the con or have a heterosexual hookup while there: 2,250.
- Assume 10% of those have contraceptive failure of some type: 225.
- Assume only a quarter of those actually conceive, because even in absolutely optimum circumstances the chance of actual conception for any one individual act is only about 25%: 56 (rounding down).
- Assume that even in the highly anti-parental RPG hobby environment, at least 20% of the women who find themselves pregnant will want to keep the baby once they know: 45.

So while I don't think "0 to 1" is quite accurate, a percentage of less than 0.1% certainly qualifies as "a sliver". And, of course, it is more than likely that several of these estimates are over-generous, which means the reality would only be even lower.

Dude. It's a gaming convention. The only thing getting pregnant is the hotel hot tub, which will end up looking like a cup of egg drop soup.

I will not thank you for that image.

In other news this TPB thread is getting spicy

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/queen-elizabeth-has-died-london-bridge-has-fallen.901876/

Trust the Big Purple to turn simple paying respects into a circus...

Not gonna log in, but I imagine it's like social media has been over the past day. Paying respects sprinkled with various "progressives" doing some grave dancing.
They had to lock the thread down because of the performative outrage. I think the more Americans ignore the British royal family the better off we are, but the gravedancing over the death of a relatively benign figurehead is kind of bizarre.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on September 09, 2022, 12:25:55 AM
I think the more Americans ignore the British royal family the better off we are, but the gravedancing over the death of a relatively benign figurehead is kind of bizarre.

There has always been an impulse deep in the human breast to spit on what someone else reveres, simply because they revere it and we don't. Civilization consists of recognizing the self-destructive perversity of this impulse and bridling it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 09, 2022, 07:58:32 AM
Plus, for all of their talk of 'we wuv strong wimmenz!', they... really don't.

EDIT: Man, that thread... reading that made me feel a little dirty. There are some really contemptible people on TBP.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on September 09, 2022, 10:23:40 AM
There are some really contemptible people on TBP.
Other than the moderators?

Victoria was the last English monarch to have any real effect on national policy.  Since then, the Royal family has been a romantic comedy/soap opera.  Hating on Beth II is like hating on Miss Elly from Dallas.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on September 09, 2022, 10:57:23 AM
I think that this is the reaction to be expected by those who have been taught that anything other than Marxism is awful. It's right out of the playbook: denigrating the leader = denigrating the institution.

I think we can all agree that empire, in any form, often leads to leadership at the far ends of the realm that get carried away, straying from the norms the ruler expects.  That is - a governor in a backwater outpost (possibly not happy to be there) might take it out on the locals, but the leader him or herself wouldn't. 

Oftentimes, the lines of communication or interference by scheming functionaries led to bad shit. Do we, for example, know that the US wouldn't still be part of the Commonwealth if the King had had a cellphone and could have talked to the colonial governors directly to find out what was pissing people off rather than waiting months for a letter to make it's way back, and filtered through members of his privy council who would be providing biased advice?

I think that many in the US have an admiration for QE2 (but not her offspring) because she walked the walk of duty first. Yes, several of her offspring are degenerates. But she herself at least always maintained outward appearances of calmness and self-control, dignity and grace.

The reason that these woke leftists tried to shit all over her legacy is because that's what they been told to by Marxist indoctrination.  There is no self-awareness amongst that crowd that the Brits left several of their holdings far better off than when they colonized them and that places that did not take full advantage of the infrastructure and culture that were left behind when they gained independence are 3rd world shitholes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 09, 2022, 12:34:03 PM
I guess the more they shit on the queen the less they have to ponder why a woman running in a city gets kidnapped and murdered by a dude who should have never gotten out of prison.  Dont know much past she was brutally murdered...white supremacy in action again I suspect.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on September 09, 2022, 01:56:34 PM
In many ways all the chuntering about colonisation by her self avowed enemies is a wierdly fitting tribute. Afterall didn't Conan say that what is best in life is to "Crush your enemies, See them driven before you. And hear the lamentation of their women…"?Essentially that's what they are admitting (and doing).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Elfdart on September 09, 2022, 02:24:42 PM
The crimes of the British Empire are so vast that two hundred years ago, Ernest Jones replied to the slogan that the Empire is one on which the sun never sets with "and on which the blood never dries".*

So gloating when the head of state drops dead, while in poor taste, is understandable -like when Nixon croaked and people started singing "Ding-dong, Nixon's dead!".

One thing the world should thank the British Empire for is dry British humor:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcKSS4UacAAr3Ei?format=jpg&name=medium)

* or as George Galloway said "because even God can't trust the British in the dark".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on September 09, 2022, 02:52:11 PM
Well, one man's crimes are another man's progress.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 09, 2022, 09:28:57 PM
The distaste for Nixon usually revolved around specific things he did during his presidency.

The comments I've seen about QE2 typically focus on that she was a queen of a colonial power, not anything she specifically did.
Which is a fine enough topic to discuss, but they don't want to discuss that topic. They want to vent their spleens.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcKnGdRacAAMjHr?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 09, 2022, 11:18:45 PM
The distaste for Nixon usually revolved around specific things he did during his presidency.

The comments I've seen about QE2 typically focus on that she was a queen of a colonial power, not anything she specifically did.
Which is a fine enough topic to discuss, but they don't want to discuss that topic. They want to vent their spleens.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcKnGdRacAAMjHr?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Queen Elizabeth II RIP presided over the DECOLONIZATION handing back the government of their former colonies to the natives.

Before her the "Evul Empire" spent blood and treasure to end slavery the world over. And just this century IIRC finished paying opff the debt they incurred to do so.

Maybe the twat in the tweet would like to go live in some of the African nations where there's slavery CURRENTLY?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on September 10, 2022, 12:10:52 AM
These people only care about identity. Action and history (past action) are outside their reasoning.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Elfdart on September 10, 2022, 04:49:09 AM
The distaste for Nixon usually revolved around specific things he did during his presidency.

The comments I've seen about QE2 typically focus on that she was a queen of a colonial power, not anything she specifically did.
Which is a fine enough topic to discuss, but they don't want to discuss that topic. They want to vent their spleens.

Dude, it's Twitter. Complex thoughts and detailed arguments are as out of place there as Baby Shark on the playlist of a strip club.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 10, 2022, 05:54:05 AM
 I guess the insecurity from being conquered NEVER goes away and that fuels the hate for the Brits.  The lesson I guess is stop getting conquered if you do not want to be butthurt for literally 500 years.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 10, 2022, 08:45:48 AM
The distaste for Nixon usually revolved around specific things he did during his presidency.

The comments I've seen about QE2 typically focus on that she was a queen of a colonial power, not anything she specifically did.
Which is a fine enough topic to discuss, but they don't want to discuss that topic. They want to vent their spleens.

Dude, it's Twitter. Complex thoughts and detailed arguments are as out of place there as Baby Shark on the playlist of a strip club.

Kind of like message boards?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on September 10, 2022, 09:32:10 AM
The distaste for Nixon usually revolved around specific things he did during his presidency.

The comments I've seen about QE2 typically focus on that she was a queen of a colonial power, not anything she specifically did.
Which is a fine enough topic to discuss, but they don't want to discuss that topic. They want to vent their spleens.

Dude, it's Twitter. Complex thoughts and detailed arguments are as out of place there as Baby Shark on the playlist of a strip club.

Kind of like message boards?

I dunno - I'm sure there are some degenerates who would want to hear baby shark at a strip club. I don't think the venn diagram for them intersects with those on rpg messageboards, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 10, 2022, 09:37:49 AM
The distaste for Nixon usually revolved around specific things he did during his presidency.

The comments I've seen about QE2 typically focus on that she was a queen of a colonial power, not anything she specifically did.
Which is a fine enough topic to discuss, but they don't want to discuss that topic. They want to vent their spleens.

Dude, it's Twitter. Complex thoughts and detailed arguments are as out of place there as Baby Shark on the playlist of a strip club.

Kind of like message boards?
In defense, unless you have a really shitty BBS/board, a complex argument can be uploaded (whether the poster in question can write it, well, that's another matter entirely).

But Twitter was, until relatively recently, limited to 140 characters (I think they bumped it to 280? Hell, I don't know, I'm not on it). So it MASSIVELY limits your ability to put forth a long post.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Theory of Games on September 10, 2022, 07:41:39 PM
Big Purp gonna be Big Purp.

Is this the "Talking About Them Is Cathartic" thread? Please stop talking about Rpg.net like that site matters. They don't. Membership is falling like raindrops due to the unjust moderation. Just let it DIE. The more you type about it the more hits they get. People are curious, right?

Big Purp essentially BANNED this site from any connection to it. That's a great reason to never ever discuss the worst rpg-ish site on the web. Reading this thread it looks almost as if some of you miss being there .... so you could be BANNED AGAIN for having an opinion they don't like.

I tried to have an open discussion there once on moderation and the thread got closed with a mod pming me that they were discussing my thread "backstage" or whatever. Listen. They do not care about dissenting opinions there to the extent that they WON'T EVEN ALLOW MEMBERS TO TALK ABOUT MODERATION.

That's open censorship and you know what? It's their thing and they can do what they want and that's why I requested they ban me from that seething Asshole of a site. If I have to sacrifice my freedom of expression - civil but differing - to be on your website, GO FUCK YOURSELF. And this has its own karma:

Membership dies.

Just. Let. It. If TBP goes offline gamers will find new homes here and on Reddit and wherever. But THAT SITE needs to die and your constant adoration of how wrong they are is publicity.

And there is NO bad publicity.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on September 11, 2022, 10:19:58 AM
Big Purp gonna be Big Purp.

Is this the "Talking About Them Is Cathartic" thread? Please stop talking about Rpg.net like that site matters. They don't. Membership is falling like raindrops due to the unjust moderation. Just let it DIE. The more you type about it the more hits they get. People are curious, right?

Big Purp essentially BANNED this site from any connection to it. That's a great reason to never ever discuss the worst rpg-ish site on the web. Reading this thread it looks almost as if some of you miss being there .... so you could be BANNED AGAIN for having an opinion they don't like.

I tried to have an open discussion there once on moderation and the thread got closed with a mod pming me that they were discussing my thread "backstage" or whatever. Listen. They do not care about dissenting opinions there to the extent that they WON'T EVEN ALLOW MEMBERS TO TALK ABOUT MODERATION.

That's open censorship and you know what? It's their thing and they can do what they want and that's why I requested they ban me from that seething Asshole of a site. If I have to sacrifice my freedom of expression - civil but differing - to be on your website, GO FUCK YOURSELF. And this has its own karma:

Membership dies.

Just. Let. It. If TBP goes offline gamers will find new homes here and on Reddit and wherever. But THAT SITE needs to die and your constant adoration of how wrong they are is publicity.

And there is NO bad publicity.

The only danger if it dies is when the hordes of SJWs come to some other site and then like a fungal spore slowly take over and make it "safe" for themselves, ostracizing everyone else.

I don't think it would happen here, but you can bet that these SJW scum weasel their way into moderation positions and then gaslight those who point out their Marxist moderation practices.

I say let TBP continue to be the firebreak to prevent them from infecting other places.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 11, 2022, 02:25:47 PM
Big Purp gonna be Big Purp.

Is this the "Talking About Them Is Cathartic" thread? Please stop talking about Rpg.net like that site matters. They don't. Membership is falling like raindrops due to the unjust moderation. Just let it DIE. The more you type about it the more hits they get. People are curious, right?

Big Purp essentially BANNED this site from any connection to it. That's a great reason to never ever discuss the worst rpg-ish site on the web. Reading this thread it looks almost as if some of you miss being there .... so you could be BANNED AGAIN for having an opinion they don't like.

I tried to have an open discussion there once on moderation and the thread got closed with a mod pming me that they were discussing my thread "backstage" or whatever. Listen. They do not care about dissenting opinions there to the extent that they WON'T EVEN ALLOW MEMBERS TO TALK ABOUT MODERATION.

That's open censorship and you know what? It's their thing and they can do what they want and that's why I requested they ban me from that seething Asshole of a site. If I have to sacrifice my freedom of expression - civil but differing - to be on your website, GO FUCK YOURSELF. And this has its own karma:

Membership dies.

Just. Let. It. If TBP goes offline gamers will find new homes here and on Reddit and wherever. But THAT SITE needs to die and your constant adoration of how wrong they are is publicity.

And there is NO bad publicity.

The only danger if it dies is when the hordes of SJWs come to some other site and then like a fungal spore slowly take over and make it "safe" for themselves, ostracizing everyone else.

I don't think it would happen here, but you can bet that these SJW scum weasel their way into moderation positions and then gaslight those who point out their Marxist moderation practices.

I say let TBP continue to be the firebreak to prevent them from infecting other places.

As we saw when the danger hairs, otherkin & pronouns hordes left Tumblr and invaded the Twatter.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on September 11, 2022, 04:25:01 PM
They can come invade here all they like, but I'm skeptical of their chances for nagging Pundit into making it 'safe' for them.  As it is, there are far more overt leftoids here than rightoids there, and as long as they follow the same rules as everyone else he seems disinclined to go hounding them away.  So let 'em come, whatever.  Our more colorful population like SHARK should enjoy having more people around to tussle with, and while I do not personally care to spend my time owning the libs, my day isn't ruined by reading their opinions.

I do expect, however, that RPG.net's fans would be most unhappy for me to disagree with them in a topic without eating a ban for it, and think they would be likely to flounce away in short order when faced with a lack of universal acceptance to whatever flavor of the week whims they bring in from Twitter.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 11, 2022, 04:47:31 PM
Big Purp gonna be Big Purp.

Is this the "Talking About Them Is Cathartic" thread? Please stop talking about Rpg.net like that site matters. They don't. Membership is falling like raindrops due to the unjust moderation. Just let it DIE. The more you type about it the more hits they get. People are curious, right?


I was once one of those "curious people" who knew that something was off, but didn't understand exactly what. Seeing dissenting opinions helped me to understand what the heck was going on.
I agree that they deserve less attention, but I also think that discussing the whats and whys is helpful and has it's place.
And, in the end, if you don't want to see it, you don't have to click on the thread.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on September 11, 2022, 06:14:02 PM
Is this the "Talking About Them Is Cathartic" thread? Please stop talking about Rpg.net like that site matters. They don't. Membership is falling like raindrops due to the unjust moderation. Just let it DIE. The more you type about it the more hits they get. People are curious, right?
For me it's a case of know thy enemy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on September 12, 2022, 12:17:38 AM
For me it's just low commedy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on September 12, 2022, 04:47:58 AM
The Big Purple is a microcosm of a communist state complete with gulag and purge mentality, albeit without anyone really getting hurt beyond banned. This provides a fascinating insight into the mentality of the types of people and culture that ends up dominating in those societies.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 12, 2022, 09:30:26 AM
Get the popcorn, something just went down on TBP.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/cameron-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-possible-hacked-account.901983/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/perfect-organism-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-possible-hacked-account.901985/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/legopaidi-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-possible-hacked-account.901987/

And then there's this:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/q99-receives-a-well-explain-later.901991/

Doesn't surprise me that accounts got hacked, TBP's tech support seems very clumsy at best. The interesting one is legopaidi, who somehow posted a new thread without anything IN the thread (there are a couple jokes about invisible ink, which I admit were pretty funny).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on September 12, 2022, 09:47:53 AM
Get the popcorn, something just went down on TBP.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/cameron-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-possible-hacked-account.901983/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/perfect-organism-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-possible-hacked-account.901985/
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/legopaidi-receives-a-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-possible-hacked-account.901987/

And then there's this:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/q99-receives-a-well-explain-later.901991/

Doesn't surprise me that accounts got hacked, TBP's tech support seems very clumsy at best. The interesting one is legopaidi, who somehow posted a new thread without anything IN the thread (there are a couple jokes about invisible ink, which I admit were pretty funny).
With the message about Q99 I suspect it’ll be a case of the moderator cult eating their own for some wackadoodle reason.

For the 3 permabans they were members since 2002, 2004 and 2009 with nine, over 1 MILLION and 1,302 messages respectively. All older accounts, but how does someone post more than 1,000,000 posts on a forum? Their last message was 2011.

Nothing recent by those I can find. However, TBP has a super secret LGBT forum where if they were posting violations on there those posts wouldn’t show up when querying the profiles. A problem with super secret forums is that problems can arise and fester there for a long time before anyone notices. That’s just a wild guess on my part, but without actual information guessing is all we’re left with.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 12, 2022, 02:23:35 PM
From the TBP frontpage:

"September 12th, 2022: Five accounts were hacked last night. We believe this was done because the accounts reused passwords leaked in a data breach of another site.

Please change your passwords, and don't reuse passwords from other sites."

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on September 12, 2022, 03:39:22 PM
From the TBP frontpage:

"September 12th, 2022: Five accounts were hacked last night. We believe this was done because the accounts reused passwords leaked in a data breach of another site.

Please change your passwords, and don't reuse passwords from other sites."
It seems they are down. I’m not sure that the five accounts being hacked explains everything.

How does a normal user post more than a million posts. If those were posts where we could see them I’d think anyone browsing TBP would be at least somewhat familiar with such a prolific poster.

Also, that doesn’t explain the mod Q99 getting purged.

Currently, TBP is offline. Are they getting actively hacked right now? Are they scrubbing data?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: ScytheSong on September 12, 2022, 03:43:53 PM
PbP is the usual answer for millions of posts. I think Kiero had over 12 million posts over there. Perfect Organism was really, really prolific in Tangency back in the 2010's (under about three different name changes, IIRC).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on September 12, 2022, 03:51:13 PM
PbP is the usual answer for millions of posts. I think Kiero had over 12 million posts over there. Perfect Organism was really, really prolific in Tangency back in the 2010's (under about three different name changes, IIRC).
I suppose that’s possible, especially if PbP is your regular method of gaming, but that still seems like a lot. TBP’s twitter says they’re doing maintenance for the back.

Still nothing on Q99.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on September 12, 2022, 07:42:41 PM
For me it's just low commedy.

I'll admit it: For me it's a combination of nostalgia and self-validation. I used to have a lot of fun and friendly contacts around that place; this thread helps remind me how bad it's gotten, why it changed and that it's not my fault it did change.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on September 13, 2022, 02:53:56 PM
oh...well...It's probably a little bit my fault anyhow.  Still, once it was home and now it's hostile territory that still has some utility for me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on September 15, 2022, 12:48:11 PM
PbP is the usual answer for millions of posts. I think Kiero had over 12 million posts over there. Perfect Organism was really, really prolific in Tangency back in the 2010's (under about three different name changes, IIRC).

Yes, PbP generates a lot of postcount, but I had something north of 50,000 posts not 12 million!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on September 15, 2022, 02:00:31 PM
Yes, PbP generates a lot of postcount, but I had something north of 50,000 posts not 12 million!

   Looks like the million-something post counts were due to moderators having fun with people's post counts back in the day.

   In other news, the moderators have decided not to make the ban on Goblin Slayer-related posts explicit (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/can-we-formally-add-goblin-slayer-to-the-banned-topics-list-no-we-feel-policy-guidance-is-sufficient.902108/). Apparently "we still feel that the situation is best dealt with by having a general policy to point to guide people's posts, and mods locking threads that violate the policy and reminding people that it exists."
 
   
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on September 25, 2022, 01:21:29 PM
Fuck RPG.net
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: steelshadow on September 27, 2022, 12:02:32 AM
Yes, PbP generates a lot of postcount, but I had something north of 50,000 posts not 12 million!

   Looks like the million-something post counts were due to moderators having fun with people's post counts back in the day.

   In other news, the moderators have decided not to make the ban on Goblin Slayer-related posts explicit (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/can-we-formally-add-goblin-slayer-to-the-banned-topics-list-no-we-feel-policy-guidance-is-sufficient.902108/). Apparently "we still feel that the situation is best dealt with by having a general policy to point to guide people's posts, and mods locking threads that violate the policy and reminding people that it exists."
 
 

I honestly only ever check in on tbp these days is for anime recommendations: anything somebody got banned for mentioning has usually turned out to be a decent watch (goblin slayer, shield hero, jobless reincarnation).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Reckall on October 02, 2022, 09:17:27 AM
Apparently "we still feel that the situation is best dealt with by having a general policy to point to guide people's posts, and mods locking threads that violate the policy and reminding people that it exists."

Is this even English? I'm asking for a friend...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on October 03, 2022, 08:05:58 PM
From the 30 day ban of Atrox:

Quote
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 03, 2022, 08:37:50 PM
From the 30 day ban of Atrox:

Quote
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

What is most interesting about the ban isn’t whether or not one wants to get into a tedious debate was a de facto Nazi even if he wasn’t officially one. It’s the quote that if there is one outright awful person at a table then everyone at the table is the same as the awful one. They are not just tainted, but made just as profane as the initial awful person. You don’t have to be agreeing with the awful person. Doesn’t matter, you are now profane. This is another example of how the cult of the Woke attempt to exercise control through a purity test. Don’t engage with your family member who has different politics than you, because you will be made profane by doing so. Better to leave your family relations instead, which is a classic cult technique.

In regards to the conversation that caught the ban, it didn’t read to me that he was trying to propagate a clean Rommel myth. He acknowledged that’s one was a bad guy just by being an officer in the German army of WWII. He was sticking with a formal definition of what made someone a Nazi in WWII, but that is unacceptable, and risks making TBP profane by having a member even suggest such a definition.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 03, 2022, 10:03:16 PM
From the 30 day ban of Atrox:

Quote
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

If they're insinuating that Atrox is a Nazi by Proxy, and the ban isn't permanent , therefore...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on October 03, 2022, 10:40:45 PM
From the 30 day ban of Atrox:

Quote
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

I remember when Russell Brand interviewed a white power guy on his TV show, with the intent to hear him out and try and persuade him to change his mind about some topics. His attempt seemed genuine, and I thought he did a good job at it.

According to TBP, Russell Brand is himself a Nazi for talking to the Nazi.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 03, 2022, 10:57:53 PM
From the 30 day ban of Atrox:

Quote
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

I remember when Russell Brand interviewed a white power guy on his TV show, with the intent to hear him out and try and persuade him to change his mind about some topics. His attempt seemed genuine, and I thought he did a good job at it.

According to TBP, Russell Brand is himself a Nazi for talking to the Nazi.
Also remember that Woke’s definition of a Nazi or fascist is always expanding towards anything that doesn’t fit with their ideology. This sucks because blurring these lines will have the affect of confusing when recognizing actual such foes. Also, eventually the only way to not be a Nazi per the Woke will be to be a member of the Woke.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on October 03, 2022, 11:28:50 PM
From the 30 day ban of Atrox:

Quote
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

I remember when Russell Brand interviewed a white power guy on his TV show, with the intent to hear him out and try and persuade him to change his mind about some topics. His attempt seemed genuine, and I thought he did a good job at it.

According to TBP, Russell Brand is himself a Nazi for talking to the Nazi.
Also remember that Woke’s definition of a Nazi or fascist is always expanding towards anything that doesn’t fit with their ideology. This sucks because blurring these lines will have the affect of confusing when recognizing actual such foes. Also, eventually the only way to not be a Nazi per the Woke will be to be a member of the Woke.

Let's remember that TBP recently banned someone for saying that he wasn't comfortable referring to pro-life people as Nazis.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on October 04, 2022, 12:13:13 AM

Also remember that Woke’s definition of a Nazi or fascist is always expanding towards anything that doesn’t fit with their ideology. .....

It will expand very fast if we use the definition above. Next time each one of those 11 sit at a table with some others etc etc. It resembles some religious ideas of ritual pollution or something like that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 04, 2022, 08:06:45 AM

Also remember that Woke’s definition of a Nazi or fascist is always expanding towards anything that doesn’t fit with their ideology. .....

It will expand very fast if we use the definition above. Next time each one of those 11 sit at a table with some others etc etc. It resembles some religious ideas of ritual pollution or something like that.
That is exactly what it is.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: gene_mingo on October 04, 2022, 10:31:07 AM
Any one here remember Godwin's Law?

Godwin originally developed the idea in 1990 as “a natural law of Usenet," expressed in the following statement: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1." (A probability of 1 is a certainty.) A corollary to Godwin's law states that once Hitler is mentioned, that discussion is ended. The implication is that the level of discourse has devolved to the degree that further communication is pointless. According to Usenet tradition, whoever mentioned Hitler is deemed to have lost the argument.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 04, 2022, 02:59:06 PM
Any one here remember Godwin's Law?

Godwin originally developed the idea in 1990 as “a natural law of Usenet," expressed in the following statement: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1." (A probability of 1 is a certainty.) A corollary to Godwin's law states that once Hitler is mentioned, that discussion is ended. The implication is that the level of discourse has devolved to the degree that further communication is pointless. According to Usenet tradition, whoever mentioned Hitler is deemed to have lost the argument.
I do, actually. Sadly, like a lot of good Usenet traditions it's been buried under the weight of years. There's a good argument that this was the end result of Eternal September and the opening of the Internet to a larger audience.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on October 04, 2022, 06:46:15 PM
You don't hear Godwin's Law mentioned any more because the current generation has a particular mindset. Y'know, everyone they don't like is literally Hitler.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on October 05, 2022, 12:19:48 AM
Any one here remember Godwin's Law?

Godwin originally developed the idea in 1990 as “a natural law of Usenet," expressed in the following statement: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1." (A probability of 1 is a certainty.) A corollary to Godwin's law states that once Hitler is mentioned, that discussion is ended. The implication is that the level of discourse has devolved to the degree that further communication is pointless. According to Usenet tradition, whoever mentioned Hitler is deemed to have lost the argument.

Welcome by the way. And yes I know about that one. Nowadays it goes to Hitler within ten posts max  ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on October 08, 2022, 09:00:46 PM
Latest reason for a ban:
Quote
Lol, just let people play the games they want to.
Bang permabanned
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: psiconauta_retro on October 14, 2022, 09:11:18 PM
Latest reason for a ban:
Quote
Lol, just let people play the games they want to.
Bang permabanned

I love it, this never gets old!!!

The only section of TBP that I still visit is Infractions because it is pure gold. Countless hours of joy and entertainment have come from watching how those nuts behave.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on October 14, 2022, 10:08:28 PM
Latest reason for a ban:
Quote
Lol, just let people play the games they want to.
Bang permabanned

I love it, this never gets old!!!

The only section of TBP that I still visit is Infractions because it is pure gold. Countless hours of joy and entertainment have come from watching how those nuts behave.

Same here.  It's vastly entertaining, and probably educational in a "mass hysteria and the popular delusions of crowds" kind of way.  I'm currently re-reading an old favorite of mine, Robbins'  The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology (not an occult book, but a historical one about witch trials and related subjects) and it's pretty interesting how much the mods at TBP resemble witch trial judges.  It was their ludicrous treatment of Olivier Legrand and his Crusaders game that spurred me to re-read the book.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Skullking on October 15, 2022, 05:44:22 AM
Latest reason for a ban:
Quote
Lol, just let people play the games they want to.
Bang permabanned

I love it, this never gets old!!!

The only section of TBP that I still visit is Infractions because it is pure gold. Countless hours of joy and entertainment have come from watching how those nuts behave.

Same here.  It's vastly entertaining, and probably educational in a "mass hysteria and the popular delusions of crowds" kind of way.  I'm currently re-reading an old favorite of mine, Robbins'  The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology (not an occult book, but a historical one about witch trials and related subjects) and it's pretty interesting how much the mods at TBP resemble witch trial judges.  It was their ludicrous treatment of Olivier Legrand and his Crusaders game that spurred me to re-read the book.

Andrey Doyle touches upon the witch trial similarities in his new book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Puritans-Identity-Politics-Dominant/dp/0349135320
For those that would rather just listen to him being interviewed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMm3vgIWbGk
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Xanadu on October 18, 2022, 04:15:20 AM
From the 30 day ban of Atrox:

Quote
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

I remember when Russell Brand interviewed a white power guy on his TV show, with the intent to hear him out and try and persuade him to change his mind about some topics. His attempt seemed genuine, and I thought he did a good job at it.

According to TBP, Russell Brand is himself a Nazi for talking to the Nazi.

Daryl Davis is living proof that civil discussion with bigots can work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

 By excluding them you only serve to justify their beliefs and push them towards environments that support their repugnant beliefs creating a positive feedback loop.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 18, 2022, 08:33:47 AM
From the 30 day ban of Atrox:

Quote
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

I remember when Russell Brand interviewed a white power guy on his TV show, with the intent to hear him out and try and persuade him to change his mind about some topics. His attempt seemed genuine, and I thought he did a good job at it.

According to TBP, Russell Brand is himself a Nazi for talking to the Nazi.

Daryl Davis is living proof that civil discussion with bigots can work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

 By excluding them you only serve to justify their beliefs and push them towards environments that support their repugnant beliefs creating a positive feedback loop.
It would not matter if it can be shown that discussion with bigots can dissuade them of their repugnant beliefs. The mods are attempting to enforce a cult mindset, and key to that is isolation from heterodox ideas. Nobody is going to change the mods at TBP by arguing the virtues of a more open forum. The insidious technique of declaring a place as a “safe space” gives them their justification for policing crimethink on TBP to the point that only mod-approved goodthink is even possible.

If anyone believes “crimethink” can’t happen is the States I’d point out laws proposed that would lead to criminal charges, potential jail time or loss of employment if one doesn’t follow Woke dogma. The most recent case is a law proposed in Virginia where the author bragged how just an investigation by Child Protective Services could lead to job loss. TBP has no enforcement capability outside of itself, but it shares that mindset, and I’m sure it’d be happy to cooperate with authorities in cooperating with any such investigation if the opportunity provided itself to TBP.

Because someone will certainly ask for link regarding the above I’ll provide one and a quote from the article, but I hope this doesn’t lead to a tangent where we’re discussing proposed state laws instead of TBP culture. My point is to show how TBP mod culture aligns with the larger picture of how the Woke are literally aspiring to thought control.

From the article itself:
“It’s about educating parents because the law shows you the do’s and don’ts,” Guzman said in an interview with WJLA News. “So this law is telling you not to abuse your children because they are LGBTQ.”

One social worker, Guzman, said that when a child reports that their parents don’t accept their gender identity or sexual orientation, both child protection services and the police are called in.

“Well, we have to complete an investigation first,” Guzman told WJLA News. “It could be a felony, it could be a misdemeanor, but we know the CPS fee could hurt your employment, could hurt your education, because a lot of people these days do a CPS database search before offering a job.”

The link: https://localtoday.news/va/virginia-lawmakers-want-criminal-punishment-for-parents-who-fail-to-validate-their-lgbtq-children-36403.html
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Xanadu on October 18, 2022, 09:15:54 AM
From the 30 day ban of Atrox:

Quote
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

I remember when Russell Brand interviewed a white power guy on his TV show, with the intent to hear him out and try and persuade him to change his mind about some topics. His attempt seemed genuine, and I thought he did a good job at it.

According to TBP, Russell Brand is himself a Nazi for talking to the Nazi.

Daryl Davis is living proof that civil discussion with bigots can work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

 By excluding them you only serve to justify their beliefs and push them towards environments that support their repugnant beliefs creating a positive feedback loop.
It would not matter if it can be shown that discussion with bigots can dissuade them of their repugnant beliefs. The mods are attempting to enforce a cult mindset, and key to that is isolation from heterodox ideas. Nobody is going to change the mods at TBP by arguing the virtues of a more open forum. The insidious technique of declaring a place as a “safe space” gives them their justification for policing crimethink on TBP to the point that only mod-approved goodthink is even possible.

If anyone believes “crimethink” can’t happen is the States I’d point out laws proposed that would lead to criminal charges, potential jail time or loss of employment if one doesn’t follow Woke dogma. The most recent case is a law proposed in Virginia where the author bragged how just an investigation by Child Protective Services could lead to job loss. TBP has no enforcement capability outside of itself, but it shares that mindset, and I’m sure it’d be happy to cooperate with authorities in cooperating with any such investigation if the opportunity provided itself to TBP.

Because someone will certainly ask for link regarding the above I’ll provide one and a quote from the article, but I hope this doesn’t lead to a tangent where we’re discussing proposed state laws instead of TBP culture. My point is to show how TBP mod culture aligns with the larger picture of how the Woke are literally aspiring to thought control.

From the article itself:
“It’s about educating parents because the law shows you the do’s and don’ts,” Guzman said in an interview with WJLA News. “So this law is telling you not to abuse your children because they are LGBTQ.”

One social worker, Guzman, said that when a child reports that their parents don’t accept their gender identity or sexual orientation, both child protection services and the police are called in.

“Well, we have to complete an investigation first,” Guzman told WJLA News. “It could be a felony, it could be a misdemeanor, but we know the CPS fee could hurt your employment, could hurt your education, because a lot of people these days do a CPS database search before offering a job.”

The link: https://localtoday.news/va/virginia-lawmakers-want-criminal-punishment-for-parents-who-fail-to-validate-their-lgbtq-children-36403.html

I’m well aware that there’s very little chance of persuading many of them, however it’s still important to fully comprehend and elucidate the flawed axioms underpinning these arguments. Otherwise, you can easily get trapped in well versed cyclical arguments that are unthinkingly recited like scripture.

Unfortunately there seems to be some fundamental misunderstanding of the concept of civil rights. All the rights currently protected in America aren’t granted but stem from intrinsic aspects of human nature. Therefore they aren’t granted and  can only be temporarily conceded or infringed upon.

The extrinsic “rights” these sorts of proposed laws are based on all require the participation of another party or the enforcement of the government making them illogical and unsustainable directly contradicting others and frequently even themselves.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 19, 2022, 12:11:48 PM
I’m unable to make heads or tails out of this ban:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/timothy-miller-infracted-💀-permanent-ban-rule-0.903360/

I found no mod instruction in the thread to the banned user. It just comes across as a truly random ban.

Additional note: More digging turned up that the mods didn’t like him starting different threads about magic in a system, but they each look like distinct and different questions to me. Didn’t know that a lack of consolidation of questions into a single topic was a permaban level offense.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on October 20, 2022, 08:58:22 AM
Didn’t know that a lack of consolidation of questions into a single topic was a permaban level offense.
It's not, until a mod says it is. The whole point of ill-defined rules is that you can punish anyone for anything.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 20, 2022, 09:26:21 AM
Didn’t know that a lack of consolidation of questions into a single topic was a permaban level offense.
It's not, until a mod says it is. The whole point of ill-defined rules is that you can punish anyone for anything.
Still a head scratcher as to why that poster became a target.

Tin Foil Hat Time (?): I’ve noticed that infractions sometimes seem to come in waves. Could it be that after the mods hood one of their struggle sessions some of them are a little desperate to hand out infractions to show that they are good “party members”? I don’t think that’s the case in this specific instance as Funkadelic has been active handing out the bans, but could I could see a mod creating a bogus account just so they could infract it to earn points. Especially posts like the one we’re discussing here. The posts seemed innocent enough, but the mods decided to go after this new guy with a permaban because he had specific questions, and in his mind he wasn’t looking to have a comparatively unfocused thread on magic in Ars Magica as a general subject.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on October 20, 2022, 12:15:33 PM
Didn’t know that a lack of consolidation of questions into a single topic was a permaban level offense.
It's not, until a mod says it is. The whole point of ill-defined rules is that you can punish anyone for anything.
Still a head scratcher as to why that poster became a target.

Tin Foil Hat Time (?): I’ve noticed that infractions sometimes seem to come in waves. Could it be that after the mods hood one of their struggle sessions some of them are a little desperate to hand out infractions to show that they are good “party members”? I don’t think that’s the case in this specific instance as Funkadelic has been active handing out the bans, but could I could see a mod creating a bogus account just so they could infract it to earn points. Especially posts like the one we’re discussing here. The posts seemed innocent enough, but the mods decided to go after this new guy with a permaban because he had specific questions, and in his mind he wasn’t looking to have a comparatively unfocused thread on magic in Ars Magica as a general subject.

  I think the Mods have decided that RPGNet's brand (aside from the commitment to the powers of Hell :) ) is Deep and Substantive Discussion--witness their recent promotion of the Let's Read threads--and are inclined to weed out posters who don't fit with that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on October 20, 2022, 12:29:20 PM
I could see a mod creating a bogus account just so they could infract it to earn points. Especially posts like the one we’re discussing here. The posts seemed innocent enough, but the mods decided to go after this new guy with a permaban because he had specific questions, and in his mind he wasn’t looking to have a comparatively unfocused thread on magic in Ars Magica as a general subject.

I'm disinclined to attribute that much deliberate effort to it. I have to admit I suspect that particular account was permabanned not just for the scattershot posting style but for the poor, for lack of a better word, articulacy in it.

Reading those posts really did remind me of the English used in spam or phishing messages, composed either by a bot or by someone really young or with non-native speaking skills; if it was combined with a suspicious origin IP, the mods might just have decided to err on the side of security and given a superficial excuse to forestall questions.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 20, 2022, 12:54:10 PM
I could see a mod creating a bogus account just so they could infract it to earn points. Especially posts like the one we’re discussing here. The posts seemed innocent enough, but the mods decided to go after this new guy with a permaban because he had specific questions, and in his mind he wasn’t looking to have a comparatively unfocused thread on magic in Ars Magica as a general subject.

I'm disinclined to attribute that much deliberate effort to it. I have to admit I suspect that particular account was permabanned not just for the scattershot posting style but for the poor, for lack of a better word, articulacy in it.

Reading those posts really did remind me of the English used in spam or phishing messages, composed either by a bot or by someone really young or with non-native speaking skills; if it was combined with a suspicious origin IP, the mods might just have decided to err on the side of security and given a superficial excuse to forestall questions.
You’re could be right. However, in other forums I’ve seen users post regularly in a similar manner, and they weren’t spammers. They just had difficulty articulating themselves whether it be because they were “on the spectrum” or some other difficulty the poster had.

If it’s due to TBP mods trying to develop a brand, as Armchair Gamer suggested, then I find it sad that TBP is trying to be elitist in how it treats its audience members who may have issues communicating. TBP going “Ew, we don’t want your kind here” to a nerd with poor communication abilities would be the exact opposite of how a geek/nerd community should act.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tubesock Army on October 20, 2022, 03:20:48 PM
From the 30 day ban of Atrox:

Quote
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

I remember when Russell Brand interviewed a white power guy on his TV show, with the intent to hear him out and try and persuade him to change his mind about some topics. His attempt seemed genuine, and I thought he did a good job at it.

According to TBP, Russell Brand is himself a Nazi for talking to the Nazi.

Daryl Davis is living proof that civil discussion with bigots can work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

 By excluding them you only serve to justify their beliefs and push them towards environments that support their repugnant beliefs creating a positive feedback loop.

White people love Daryl Davis, because he puts the onus on people of color to ending racism , rather than putting the onus on literal nazis to fuck off into the heart of the sun, where they belong.

If people like Davis want to go out and talk to nazis, that's their prerogative. But there's no reason why that should be the expectation. Hatemongers aren't owed respect or tolerance. Not when they deny it to others.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 20, 2022, 03:56:48 PM
From the 30 day ban of Atrox:

Quote
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

I remember when Russell Brand interviewed a white power guy on his TV show, with the intent to hear him out and try and persuade him to change his mind about some topics. His attempt seemed genuine, and I thought he did a good job at it.

According to TBP, Russell Brand is himself a Nazi for talking to the Nazi.

Daryl Davis is living proof that civil discussion with bigots can work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

 By excluding them you only serve to justify their beliefs and push them towards environments that support their repugnant beliefs creating a positive feedback loop.

White people love Daryl Davis, because he puts the onus on people of color to ending racism , rather than putting the onus on literal nazis to fuck off into the heart of the sun, where they belong.

If people like Davis want to go out and talk to nazis, that's their prerogative. But there's no reason why that should be the expectation. Hatemongers aren't owed respect or tolerance. Not when they deny it to others.
When has Daryl Davis put the onus on minorities to talk with bigots?

When you talk about white people loving Daryl Davis it seems you’re implying that Xanadu is white. Has Xanadu declared his race? If so, I’m not aware of it. If not, are you able to somehow make this determination?

I think the point that Xanadu was making, was the stupidity of using guilt by association TBP was making, and using Daryl Davis, who is clearly not a Nazi, as an example.

The cult mindset of TBP is clear by the example they used where if even a single person is profane (a Nazi in this case) everyone in that group is also polluted and profane. It’s not an accident TBP didn’t use an argument along the lines of “If you have a table where most are identifiable Nazis, you probably have a table where they’re all Nazis.” That’s also not necessarily true - though I’d grant it’d be very, very likely - but the point is to enforce a cult mindset.

TSA, you’re talking to people here that TBP would probably consider profane. If you use other identities at TBP you better hope they don’t connect them. Or do you think you’re playing the role of a Daryl Davis?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DM_Curt on October 20, 2022, 07:33:27 PM
How do they get enough new posters to replace the banned ones?
Are the mods making enough sock puppet accounts to make it look like people would see that madhouse and want to join?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Xanadu on October 21, 2022, 12:52:44 AM
From the 30 day ban of Atrox:

Quote
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

I remember when Russell Brand interviewed a white power guy on his TV show, with the intent to hear him out and try and persuade him to change his mind about some topics. His attempt seemed genuine, and I thought he did a good job at it.

According to TBP, Russell Brand is himself a Nazi for talking to the Nazi.

Daryl Davis is living proof that civil discussion with bigots can work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

 By excluding them you only serve to justify their beliefs and push them towards environments that support their repugnant beliefs creating a positive feedback loop.

White people love Daryl Davis, because he puts the onus on people of color to ending racism , rather than putting the onus on literal nazis to fuck off into the heart of the sun, where they belong.

If people like Davis want to go out and talk to nazis, that's their prerogative. But there's no reason why that should be the expectation. Hatemongers aren't owed respect or tolerance. Not when they deny it to others.
When has Daryl Davis put the onus on minorities to talk with bigots?

When you talk about white people loving Daryl Davis it seems you’re implying that Xanadu is white. Has Xanadu declared his race? If so, I’m not aware of it. If not, are you able to somehow make this determination?

I think the point that Xanadu was making, was the stupidity of using guilt by association TBP was making, and using Daryl Davis, who is clearly not a Nazi, as an example.

The cult mindset of TBP is clear by the example they used where if even a single person is profane (a Nazi in this case) everyone in that group is also polluted and profane. It’s not an accident TBP didn’t use an argument along the lines of “If you have a table where most are identifiable Nazis, you probably have a table where they’re all Nazis.” That’s also not necessarily true - though I’d grant it’d be very, very likely - but the point is to enforce a cult mindset.

TSA, you’re talking to people here that TBP would probably consider profane. If you use other identities at TBP you better hope they don’t connect them. Or do you think you’re playing the role of a Daryl Davis?

That’s exactly the point I was making, not that the extreme example should be the norm. It is arguably the most extreme example of bigotry and xenophobia being diminished by positive interactions.

Unfortunately, in-group bias and stereotyping is inherent to humanity in one form or another (there are several issues like Dunbar's number) and while in excess it is a flaw that  should be moderated it isn’t equivalent to uncleanseable original sin.

People can change and to a reasonable degree dissidents should be tolerated and given chances to improve rather than being outcast as moral scapegoats.  Excessive ostracization and purity tests only reenforces the problems and creates mirrored cult like groups.

I’m not saying bad behavior should be entirely tolerated, but guilt by association is fundamentally flawed, and permabans should be a last resort after multiple lesser measures.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Xanadu on October 21, 2022, 01:05:36 AM
From the 30 day ban of Atrox:

Quote
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

I remember when Russell Brand interviewed a white power guy on his TV show, with the intent to hear him out and try and persuade him to change his mind about some topics. His attempt seemed genuine, and I thought he did a good job at it.

According to TBP, Russell Brand is himself a Nazi for talking to the Nazi.

Daryl Davis is living proof that civil discussion with bigots can work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

 By excluding them you only serve to justify their beliefs and push them towards environments that support their repugnant beliefs creating a positive feedback loop.

White people love Daryl Davis, because he puts the onus on people of color to ending racism , rather than putting the onus on literal nazis to fuck off into the heart of the sun, where they belong.

If people like Davis want to go out and talk to nazis, that's their prerogative. But there's no reason why that should be the expectation. Hatemongers aren't owed respect or tolerance. Not when they deny it to others.

“rather than putting the onus on literal nazis to fuck off into the heart of the sun, where they belong.”

Unfortunately when excluded these kind of people don’t disappear into oblivion or the heart of the sun. More often they rally to the loudest most impassioned leader or community that justifies and perpetuates  their world view. This creates a feedback loop where more dominant memes and beliefs are amplified. Eventually these groups gain enough momentum that they begin to push their beliefs on others crating a far larger problem.

By spreading these people out and including them to a point, exposure dilutes the extremes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tubesock Army on October 21, 2022, 01:18:10 PM
From the 30 day ban of Atrox:

Quote
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

I remember when Russell Brand interviewed a white power guy on his TV show, with the intent to hear him out and try and persuade him to change his mind about some topics. His attempt seemed genuine, and I thought he did a good job at it.

According to TBP, Russell Brand is himself a Nazi for talking to the Nazi.

Daryl Davis is living proof that civil discussion with bigots can work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

 By excluding them you only serve to justify their beliefs and push them towards environments that support their repugnant beliefs creating a positive feedback loop.

White people love Daryl Davis, because he puts the onus on people of color to ending racism , rather than putting the onus on literal nazis to fuck off into the heart of the sun, where they belong.

If people like Davis want to go out and talk to nazis, that's their prerogative. But there's no reason why that should be the expectation. Hatemongers aren't owed respect or tolerance. Not when they deny it to others.

“rather than putting the onus on literal nazis to fuck off into the heart of the sun, where they belong.”

Unfortunately when excluded these kind of people don’t disappear into oblivion or the heart of the sun. More often they rally to the loudest most impassioned leader or community that justifies and perpetuates  their world view. This creates a feedback loop where more dominant memes and beliefs are amplified. Eventually these groups gain enough momentum that they begin to push their beliefs on others crating a far larger problem.

By spreading these people out and including them to a point, exposure dilutes the extremes.

Given the rise in anti-semitic rhetoric and nazi-adjacent talking points in CURRENT YEAR, "mainstream" political discourse (not to mention the rise in hate crimes), I think it's safe to say that this is absolutely not true. "Dialoguing" with extremists lends legitimacy to their views, whether it's done intentionally or not. Their views are abhorrent and irrational, and engaging with them as though they are legitimate is a mistake. Exposure has not diluted the extremes in today's America. Rather, it has diluted the commonplace with the extreme, the latter of which has started to metastasize.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on October 21, 2022, 04:31:27 PM
Unfortunately when excluded these kind of people don’t disappear into oblivion or the heart of the sun. More often they rally to the loudest most impassioned leader or community that justifies and perpetuates  their world view. This creates a feedback loop where more dominant memes and beliefs are amplified. Eventually these groups gain enough momentum that they begin to push their beliefs on others crating a far larger problem.

By spreading these people out and including them to a point, exposure dilutes the extremes.

Given the rise in anti-semitic rhetoric and nazi-adjacent talking points in CURRENT YEAR, "mainstream" political discourse (not to mention the rise in hate crimes), I think it's safe to say that this is absolutely not true. "Dialoguing" with extremists lends legitimacy to their views, whether it's done intentionally or not. Their views are abhorrent and irrational, and engaging with them as though they are legitimate is a mistake. Exposure has not diluted the extremes in today's America. Rather, it has diluted the commonplace with the extreme, the latter of which has started to metastasize.

Neither talking to them nor banning them causes them to disappear. We've had years of most social media platforms banning people for extremist views like open anti-semitism, and yet those views have continued to grow. In Germany, many expressions of anti-semitism can be prosecuted for jail time, and yet still, those views continue to grow.

Here on theRPGsite, there have been users like PSIandCO and GriswaldTerrastone who were banned for antisemitic talk. I think letting them speak showed people just how real and pernicious anti-semitism is. Earlier banned users like 5 Stone Games and alathon had spoken up for ethno-nationalism. If anything, them speaking up in support of stuff served to de-legitimize those views.

Like cockroaches, showing these people in the light doesn't make them seem cool or legitimate. They are an embarrassment to those who hold similar views but aren't as open about it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on October 21, 2022, 06:06:29 PM
From the 30 day ban of Atrox:

Quote
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

I remember when Russell Brand interviewed a white power guy on his TV show, with the intent to hear him out and try and persuade him to change his mind about some topics. His attempt seemed genuine, and I thought he did a good job at it.

According to TBP, Russell Brand is himself a Nazi for talking to the Nazi.

Daryl Davis is living proof that civil discussion with bigots can work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

 By excluding them you only serve to justify their beliefs and push them towards environments that support their repugnant beliefs creating a positive feedback loop.

White people love Daryl Davis, because he puts the onus on people of color to ending racism , rather than putting the onus on literal nazis to fuck off into the heart of the sun, where they belong.

If people like Davis want to go out and talk to nazis, that's their prerogative. But there's no reason why that should be the expectation. Hatemongers aren't owed respect or tolerance. Not when they deny it to others.

“rather than putting the onus on literal nazis to fuck off into the heart of the sun, where they belong.”

Unfortunately when excluded these kind of people don’t disappear into oblivion or the heart of the sun. More often they rally to the loudest most impassioned leader or community that justifies and perpetuates  their world view. This creates a feedback loop where more dominant memes and beliefs are amplified. Eventually these groups gain enough momentum that they begin to push their beliefs on others crating a far larger problem.

By spreading these people out and including them to a point, exposure dilutes the extremes.

Given the rise in anti-semitic rhetoric and nazi-adjacent talking points in CURRENT YEAR, "mainstream" political discourse (not to mention the rise in hate crimes), I think it's safe to say that this is absolutely not true. "Dialoguing" with extremists lends legitimacy to their views, whether it's done intentionally or not. Their views are abhorrent and irrational, and engaging with them as though they are legitimate is a mistake. Exposure has not diluted the extremes in today's America. Rather, it has diluted the commonplace with the extreme, the latter of which has started to metastasize.

I don't think you quite understand what's going on. A lot of this is intentional division or agitation. The Chinese and Russians both pushed disinformation campaigns on the vaccine to the effect of Bill Gates put in a microchip which makes you magnetic or the shot sterilizes you. This had some confounding effect on people who were relatively gullible, but the larger effect in my experience was that it made talking about vaccine safety protocol or just vaccine risk-benefit analysis at all impossible because the instant you disagree with "safe and effective," you get stigmatized as a conspiracy theorist.

There's also an element of the anatomy of the internet at play here, too. AgitProp disinformation programs have been a thing for decades, but they really took off during the Obama administration. Why? Because the internet from the late 90s to the mid 2000s was a bunch of small websites and a dozen agitprop agents cannot possibly influence 3000 websites effectively, so the primary tactic in this era of the internet was to post a laundry list of bullet points on some place like MoveOn.Org (yes, that was a form of AgitProp back in the day) and let kool-aid drinker members of these smaller communities post them. This was only marginally effective, not because there were a lack of brain-dead mules to carry the message, but because the microculture of most small websites is strong enough to immediately recognize hogwash. The structure of the internet made certain kinds of lies impossible.

However, after about 2010, the userbases centralized into only about a dozen major Silicon Valley platforms, which let the agitprop agents directly interact with millions of people with no microculture to protect them. It took the AgitProp agents a few years to realize they could get away with straight up lies, but they have.

FYI: This is why I think the highest and best use of the internet is a pseudoanonymous forum with between 100 and 10,000 active members. And RPG.Net exists as a reminder that just because you have the right website design does not mean you are guaranteed an improved microculture; you must start with solid members.

My point is that you're coming to this conclusion from the wrong angle. These aren't irredeemable evil morons. A few of them are evil, and most of the rest of them are morons, but that's not why arguing with them is pointless. It's pointless trying to talk to them in a venue which participates in brainwashing like Facebook, and Twitter. Remove Facebook and Twitter from the equation and this calculation starts to change.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on October 21, 2022, 07:44:09 PM
  I have lived on a long enough time line to see Kanye become a Nazi. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tubesock Army on October 21, 2022, 08:54:49 PM
Anti-Semitism among rappers isn't exactly a new phenomenon. Public Enemy came under fire for it (more than once) back in the '80s. And Bill Clinton specifically condemned Sister Soulja for having a burning star of David on an album cover in the '90s.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tubesock Army on October 21, 2022, 08:58:09 PM
oops double pizzost
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 21, 2022, 09:25:10 PM
  I have lived on a long enough time line to see Kanye become a Nazi.
I’m pretty sure he’s been mentally ill for a while. For whatever reason antisemitism is something quite a few of the mentally ill get into. I’m not saying every antisemite is mentally ill—most are just hateful wrecks of humanity.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on October 22, 2022, 01:01:40 AM
  I have lived on a long enough time line to see Kanye become a Nazi.
I’m pretty sure he’s been mentally I’ll for a while. For whatever reason antisemitism is something quite a few of the mentally I’ll get into. I’m not saying every antisemite is mentally ill—most are just hateful wrecks of humanity.

But you see it's OK because he says he IS a jew.....
oh OK I see what you're saying.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on October 22, 2022, 12:14:33 PM
It's pointless trying to talk to them in a venue which participates in brainwashing like Facebook, and Twitter. Remove Facebook and Twitter from the equation and this calculation starts to change.

Agreed. Across the board, the best counter to bigotry and prejudice has always been personal, face-to-face knowledge of people who belong to the group one's been prejudiced against.

The real danger of social media platforms is that they facilitate and encourage people creating filtered spaces which, even if they allow interaction with out-group members, tend to be structured so that interaction reinforces rather than undermines those judgements. The problem with the fabled "safe space" is that any organism who stays in one too long becomes unable to survive outside it, like orchids in a greenhouse.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: VacuumJockey on October 25, 2022, 02:53:29 AM
Today I learned that rpg.net autobans posts related to ACKS!

I caught a permaban over there from recommending the ACKS wargame supplement, and having an alleged alt-right (ooo!) talking point in my sig.

Still, I am more impressed by the fact that rpg.net has auto-banned ACKS posts for years. According to their mod text, ACKS has been a banned topic "for years now"!

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: blackstone on October 25, 2022, 08:27:22 AM
I just read through their rules and guidelines and quite frankly I'm shocked and appalled.
I cannot believe how one sided they've become. They've fully embraced the SJW BS of the left.
You cannot in any way have an apposing view from rpg.net and have a discussion about it.
The moderators there will perma-ban anyone at the drop of a hat. Pretty pathetic.
There is zero public discourse there.
They're close minded.
they fear everything.
They've become the thing they most hated and feared: the oppressor.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: blackstone on October 25, 2022, 09:49:46 AM
take a look at this ban (which was appealed...and REVERSED!)

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/s-lash-infracted-reversed-on-appeal.902772/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/s-lash-infracted-reversed-on-appeal.902772/)

With that sort of logic, ANYONE who sits down with a Nazi, is a Nazi.

So I guess every person that spoke to Hitler was a Nazi.

What. The. Literal. Fuck.

EDIT: Sorry. I saw this particular ban was brought up earlier in this thread. My bad. But still...WTF?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 25, 2022, 11:57:39 AM
take a look at this ban (which was appealed...and REVERSED!)

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/s-lash-infracted-reversed-on-appeal.902772/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/s-lash-infracted-reversed-on-appeal.902772/)

With that sort of logic, ANYONE who sits down with a Nazi, is a Nazi.

So I guess every person that spoke to Hitler was a Nazi.

What. The. Literal. Fuck.

EDIT: Sorry. I saw this particular ban was brought up earlier in this thread. My bad. But still...WTF?
A 7 day ban reversed 6 days into the ban, and no explanation for why the ban was reversed. The TBP mods want the inmates to not fully understand what the rules are. It’s a form of terror to keep people afraid, and to keep people within the cult-minded groupthink.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 25, 2022, 01:51:58 PM
Honestly, I had to take a break from it. As wmarshal correctly notes, the rules are never distinct and always in flux, so as to keep everyone guessing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on October 25, 2022, 07:36:10 PM
Really, what was at stake with the "Rommel Apologism" ban is the concept of whether or not you can view enemies as anything other than enemies. The Rommel myth exists as an antidote to the idea that all enemies are irrevocably evil or subhuman, and not that Rommel specifically was a good Nazi. It's a reminder to view your enemies as human, with a range of good and evil traits.

Naturally, RPG.Net avoids this entire line of discussion. I suspect this is an ego-defense reflex. Discussing Rommel as a person makes it easy to poke holes in his character (you can poke holes in anyone's character). However, if you start discussing why the Rommel myth exists, RPG.Net's staff would have to admit they haven't taken the lesson to heart; on the contrary, they are accessory to a scorched-earth defamation and disinformation campaign against MAGA, anyone they listen to or support, anyone who has breathed the air fifty miles downrange of them, and really, anyone to the right of the middle of the Democrat aisle.

At this point I think most of the internet has lost the forest for the trees when it comes to Nazism and Fascism. The Biden Administration is literally sending weapons to the Ukrainian Nazi party. I have a problem with Biden being a Manchurian candidate because he clearly has dementia and in half of his public appearances, the furniture looks like it was provided by Fisher Price. I have a problem with the Biden Administration releasing something like 2/3rds of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to fail at buying off the 2022 Midterm.

I don't have a problem with the Biden Administration giving Javelins to Ukrainian Nazis. In context, that makes sense, and this is why the Rommel was a Good Nazi trope is an important myth even if it is only a myth.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on October 30, 2022, 01:38:25 AM
I just read through their rules and guidelines and quite frankly I'm shocked and appalled.
I cannot believe how one sided they've become. They've fully embraced the SJW BS of the left.
You cannot in any way have an apposing view from rpg.net and have a discussion about it.
The moderators there will perma-ban anyone at the drop of a hat. Pretty pathetic.
There is zero public discourse there.
They're close minded.
they fear everything.
They've become the thing they most hated and feared: the oppressor.

It's an interesting microcosm of a Soviet system, purges and all.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on November 12, 2022, 06:03:47 PM
So two people have been banned for saying that child rapists are worse than Nazis.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/liahona-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.904312/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/liahona-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.904312/) This one was technically claimed to be a sockpuppet, but interesting how THIS stance was what got the mods' attention.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/monad-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.904314/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/monad-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.904314/) This one is more honest, but it ignores that in the thread, Monad was kicked out of the thread for "Nazi apologism".

Now that TBP has come out and said that holding unapproved views is worse than CHILD RAPE, can we start doxxing them now? This is no longer theoretical that these "people" are monsters.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on November 12, 2022, 07:19:25 PM
So two people have been banned for saying that child rapists are worse than Nazis.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/liahona-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.904312/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/liahona-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.904312/) This one was technically claimed to be a sockpuppet, but interesting how THIS stance was what got the mods' attention.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/monad-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.904314/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/monad-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.904314/) This one is more honest, but it ignores that in the thread, Monad was kicked out of the thread for "Nazi apologism".

Now that TBP has come out and said that holding unapproved views is worse than CHILD RAPE, can we start doxxing them now? This is no longer theoretical that these "people" are monsters.
Nope. Don’t even give them the publicity. People like that live for attention and the ability to cry victim. Let them and their site absorb the crazy as it sinks into irrelevance.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 12, 2022, 09:23:53 PM
So two people have been banned for saying that child rapists are worse than Nazis.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/liahona-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.904312/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/liahona-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.904312/) This one was technically claimed to be a sockpuppet, but interesting how THIS stance was what got the mods' attention.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/monad-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.904314/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/monad-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.904314/) This one is more honest, but it ignores that in the thread, Monad was kicked out of the thread for "Nazi apologism".

Now that TBP has come out and said that holding unapproved views is worse than CHILD RAPE, can we start doxxing them now? This is no longer theoretical that these "people" are monsters.

In their defense, the unapproved views are that a demographic of our fellow human beings are less than animals, and raping and murdering them is justified.

To take that defense away, I think the definition of Nazi has slid into "someone I don't like".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on November 13, 2022, 12:53:00 AM
So two people have been banned for saying that child rapists are worse than Nazis.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/liahona-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.904312/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/liahona-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.904312/) This one was technically claimed to be a sockpuppet, but interesting how THIS stance was what got the mods' attention.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/monad-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.904314/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/monad-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban-troll.904314/) This one is more honest, but it ignores that in the thread, Monad was kicked out of the thread for "Nazi apologism".

Now that TBP has come out and said that holding unapproved views is worse than CHILD RAPE, can we start doxxing them now? This is no longer theoretical that these "people" are monsters.

Naw come on. His comment was very clearly not just arguing "child rapists worse" but also dismissive of anti-semitism as even being an issue worthy of any concern. He was, in particular, dismissive of "dajooz own the media" as being a concern. And then he made a crack about "refusing to learn your pronouns or whatever" which was definitely him poking at people there. And he was banned for trolling - which that was. Don't be disingenuous we already have tons of legit reasons to thing TBP is full of lunatics without you spinning some false ones.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 13, 2022, 01:04:49 AM
In their defense, the unapproved views are that a demographic of our fellow human beings are less than animals, and raping and murdering them is justified.

To take that defense away, I think the definition of Nazi has slid into "someone I don't like".

I think you're right, on both counts.

I had an interesting moment watching the new series of Interview with the Vampire,* where Louis de Pointe du Lac, who is in this version a gay black man who was made a vampire at the beginning of the 20th century rather than the 18th,** has the opportunity to vamp out and kill some of the racist a-holes who were forever looking down on him and keeping him down in pre-WW1 New Orleans. It's clearly meant to be very emotionally cathartic and vicariously satisfying, but my own reaction was more along the lines of, "You know, being an unrepentant racist -- or bigot of any stripe, for that matter -- is a pretty reprehensible thing, but in a just system of law it's not a capital crime."

And that's what I see more and more as an underlying conviction of Wokism -- that being the sort of person who might want to commit crimes motivated by hate is morally equivalent to being a person who's actually committed that crime.

* My wife loves the new series; I think it's well-done AU fanfic, but after the series of Hannibal and The Haunting of Bly Manor I'm basically fed up with AU fanfics on principle, especially if they're being deployed for Woke purposes. But I don't want to ruin her enjoyment so I don't get into those arguments.

** Thus completely changing the philosophical arc of the original novel, which is one reason I don't like AUs. If you want to tell that different a story, create your own.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 13, 2022, 03:10:27 AM
In their defense, the unapproved views are that a demographic of our fellow human beings are less than animals, and raping and murdering them is justified.

To take that defense away, I think the definition of Nazi has slid into "someone I don't like".

I think you're right, on both counts.

I had an interesting moment watching the new series of Interview with the Vampire,* where Louis de Pointe du Lac, who is in this version a gay black man who was made a vampire at the beginning of the 20th century rather than the 18th,** has the opportunity to vamp out and kill some of the racist a-holes who were forever looking down on him and keeping him down in pre-WW1 New Orleans. It's clearly meant to be very emotionally cathartic and vicariously satisfying, but my own reaction was more along the lines of, "You know, being an unrepentant racist -- or bigot of any stripe, for that matter -- is a pretty reprehensible thing, but in a just system of law it's not a capital crime."

And that's what I see more and more as an underlying conviction of Wokism -- that being the sort of person who might want to commit crimes motivated by hate is morally equivalent to being a person who's actually committed that crime.

* My wife loves the new series; I think it's well-done AU fanfic, but after the series of Hannibal and The Haunting of Bly Manor I'm basically fed up with AU fanfics on principle, especially if they're being deployed for Woke purposes. But I don't want to ruin her enjoyment so I don't get into those arguments.

** Thus completely changing the philosophical arc of the original novel, which is one reason I don't like AUs. If you want to tell that different a story, create your own.


I agree. The problem of the Paradox of Tolerance is that somebody out there will find you intolerable, and we devolve into simple tribalism. Which I think is one of the end states of wokism anyway.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on November 13, 2022, 09:24:51 AM
In their defense, the unapproved views are that a demographic of our fellow human beings are less than animals, and raping and murdering them is justified.

To take that defense away, I think the definition of Nazi has slid into "someone I don't like".

I think you're right, on both counts.

I had an interesting moment watching the new series of Interview with the Vampire,* where Louis de Pointe du Lac, who is in this version a gay black man who was made a vampire at the beginning of the 20th century rather than the 18th,** has the opportunity to vamp out and kill some of the racist a-holes who were forever looking down on him and keeping him down in pre-WW1 New Orleans. It's clearly meant to be very emotionally cathartic and vicariously satisfying, but my own reaction was more along the lines of, "You know, being an unrepentant racist -- or bigot of any stripe, for that matter -- is a pretty reprehensible thing, but in a just system of law it's not a capital crime."

And that's what I see more and more as an underlying conviction of Wokism -- that being the sort of person who might want to commit crimes motivated by hate is morally equivalent to being a person who's actually committed that crime.

* My wife loves the new series; I think it's well-done AU fanfic, but after the series of Hannibal and The Haunting of Bly Manor I'm basically fed up with AU fanfics on principle, especially if they're being deployed for Woke purposes. But I don't want to ruin her enjoyment so I don't get into those arguments.

** Thus completely changing the philosophical arc of the original novel, which is one reason I don't like AUs. If you want to tell that different a story, create your own.


I agree. The problem of the Paradox of Tolerance is that somebody out there will find you intolerable, and we devolve into simple tribalism. Which I think is one of the end states of wokism anyway.
The purpose of wokism is to atomize (not in the ray gun sense; but in “divide to the smallest element) society because small groups and individuals cannot easily resist the State, only large organized groups can (which is why organized religions are invariably the first targets of the woke ideology).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on November 13, 2022, 09:59:28 AM
I don’t watch the vampire show because I don’t subscribe to AMC+, but that sounds to me like good old fashioned “teenager gets superpowers and murders their high school bullies” type of plot. It’s just as badly motivated. Just because someone is mean to you doesn’t mean you have any right to murder them. That’s just pettiness.

If it was framed as bad for the protagonist to become a slasher villain, then that’s one thing. This sounds like it’s framed as a good thing, which is not a healthy message to promote. “If you don’t like the way someone treats you, then you should kill them” is a terrible message.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on November 13, 2022, 10:33:36 AM
I don’t watch the vampire show because I don’t subscribe to AMC+, but that sounds to me like good old fashioned “teenager gets superpowers and murders their high school bullies” type of plot. It’s just as badly motivated. Just because someone is mean to you doesn’t mean you have any right to murder them. That’s just pettiness.

If it was framed as bad for the protagonist to become a slasher villain, then that’s one thing. This sounds like it’s framed as a good thing, which is not a healthy message to promote. “If you don’t like the way someone treats you, then you should kill them” is a terrible message.

According to the Critical Drinker, a similar thing happens in Wakanda Forever.  Not to spoil it, but a "hero" escapes by killing a mass of cops (via thrown object and explosion) who are just trying to stop them from leaving.  Something that should result in a prison sentence, but in this case goes totally without remark for the rest of the movie...

The Critical Drinker's After Hours review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRUAqraFFY
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on November 13, 2022, 02:25:42 PM
Sigh. What would you expect from the “#kill all cops” crowd?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 13, 2022, 02:35:18 PM
I don’t watch the vampire show because I don’t subscribe to AMC+, but that sounds to me like good old fashioned “teenager gets superpowers and murders their high school bullies” type of plot. It’s just as badly motivated.

Out of curiosity, other than Chronicle, are there a lot of that kind of story?  Certainly one side effect of Columbine was to really deglamourize violent teen revenge stories, so I don't remember a lot of them.

And to be fair to the new Interview, Louis does still struggle with being a murderer, it's just really obvious which victims the showrunners expect the audience to find more sympathetic and which ones they expect the audience to forgive Louis for.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 13, 2022, 05:49:46 PM
I don’t watch the vampire show because I don’t subscribe to AMC+, but that sounds to me like good old fashioned “teenager gets superpowers and murders their high school bullies” type of plot. It’s just as badly motivated. Just because someone is mean to you doesn’t mean you have any right to murder them. That’s just pettiness.

If it was framed as bad for the protagonist to become a slasher villain, then that’s one thing. This sounds like it’s framed as a good thing, which is not a healthy message to promote. “If you don’t like the way someone treats you, then you should kill them” is a terrible message.

According to the Critical Drinker, a similar thing happens in Wakanda Forever.  Not to spoil it, but a "hero" escapes by killing a mass of cops (via thrown object and explosion) who are just trying to stop them from leaving.  Something that should result in a prison sentence, but in this case goes totally without remark for the rest of the movie...

The Critical Drinker's After Hours review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRUAqraFFY

The morality of some "heroes" is something I've found disgusting.
Like, in the extended version of LOTR, Aragorn cuts the head off the Mouth of Sauron, when in the scene in the book, it was clearly stated to be a parley that both sides honored, and Aragorn didn't just fly into a rage an behead someone over smacktalk.
Optimus Prime in the Bay films gets worse and worse. He executes a helpless foe seemingly just out of spite.
And so many stronk female characters who abuse their power to torture some dude who acted sexist.

I don't expect fictional heroes to act like saints, but I do expect them to have some kind of restraint.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 13, 2022, 10:05:25 PM
I don’t watch the vampire show because I don’t subscribe to AMC+, but that sounds to me like good old fashioned “teenager gets superpowers and murders their high school bullies” type of plot. It’s just as badly motivated. Just because someone is mean to you doesn’t mean you have any right to murder them. That’s just pettiness.

If it was framed as bad for the protagonist to become a slasher villain, then that’s one thing. This sounds like it’s framed as a good thing, which is not a healthy message to promote. “If you don’t like the way someone treats you, then you should kill them” is a terrible message.

According to the Critical Drinker, a similar thing happens in Wakanda Forever.  Not to spoil it, but a "hero" escapes by killing a mass of cops (via thrown object and explosion) who are just trying to stop them from leaving.  Something that should result in a prison sentence, but in this case goes totally without remark for the rest of the movie...

The Critical Drinker's After Hours review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRUAqraFFY

The morality of some "heroes" is something I've found disgusting.
Like, in the extended version of LOTR, Aragorn cuts the head off the Mouth of Sauron, when in the scene in the book, it was clearly stated to be a parley that both sides honored, and Aragorn didn't just fly into a rage an behead someone over smacktalk.
Optimus Prime in the Bay films gets worse and worse. He executes a helpless foe seemingly just out of spite.
And so many stronk female characters who abuse their power to torture some dude who acted sexist.

I don't expect fictional heroes to act like saints, but I do expect them to have some kind of restraint.
I think Aragorn going Chaotic Evil on the Mouth of Sauron only occurred in the extended version, not the theatrical release. I specifically got a copy of the theatrical release of the films because I found the more Peter Jackson was able to show “his vision” of LOTR the less satisfactory it was. In some cases studio interference can be a blessing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thornhammer on November 13, 2022, 10:48:08 PM
But I don't want to ruin her enjoyment so I don't get into those arguments.

Friends, this is a successful Wisdom check.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 13, 2022, 11:09:28 PM
But I don't want to ruin her enjoyment so I don't get into those arguments.

Friends, this is a successful Wisdom check.

Much obliged for the kind words, though I can't think the DC on that one would be particularly high.  :-X
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on November 14, 2022, 07:12:17 AM
But I don't want to ruin her enjoyment so I don't get into those arguments.

Friends, this is a successful Wisdom check.

Much obliged for the kind words, though I can't think the DC on that one would be particularly high.  :-X
It’s still high enough I’ve seen some men fail it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on November 14, 2022, 09:08:29 AM
….
And so many stronk female characters who abuse their power to torture some dude who acted sexist….

I can’t tell if women in movies are supposed to be heroes or villains anymore. Occasionally they get taken down a notch if they behave like assholes, but usually I get the feeling that we’re supposed to clap and cheer for their “strong independent behavior”. I think Hollywood’s idea of what women are “supposed to” be like is in flux.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 14, 2022, 10:18:26 AM
I call it 'informed morality', a play on the trope of informed ability.

Someone with 'informed morality' is designated 'good' regardless of their actions. Even if you have to twist things into a pretzel.

The LOTR scene's a good example, though not great -- keep in mind the Mouth of Sauron was an absolute monster, a descendant of the Black Numenoreans who had worshipped the Eye. But there is a real problem with violating parley to lop his head off, no matter how much smack he was talking.

(In the books, Gandalf and Aragorn glared at him so much he actually flinched. Good times.)

But yeah. We're supposed to root for people who, if you take a tiny step back, are behaving in amazingly abhorrent ways.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on November 14, 2022, 11:33:20 AM
I call it 'informed morality', a play on the trope of informed ability.

Someone with 'informed morality' is designated 'good' regardless of their actions. Even if you have to twist things into a pretzel.

The LOTR scene's a good example, though not great -- keep in mind the Mouth of Sauron was an absolute monster, a descendant of the Black Numenoreans who had worshipped the Eye. But there is a real problem with violating parley to lop his head off, no matter how much smack he was talking.

(In the books, Gandalf and Aragorn glared at him so much he actually flinched. Good times.)

But yeah. We're supposed to root for people who, if you take a tiny step back, are behaving in amazingly abhorrent ways.

One that really makes me cringe for some reason is the woman in Shape of Water (and yes I know many people love that movie). The monster (or god or whatever) doesn't seem to be much more intelligent than a chimpanzee at best (the way it behaves with the cat, throws itself at food etc). And yet she's sleeping with it. She's had a hard life you see, and she's a woman, so it's OK. And of course the family guy in the movie is the real "monster". What exactly are we supposed to learn from this?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 14, 2022, 03:27:42 PM
One that really makes me cringe for some reason is the woman in Shape of Water ... She's had a hard life you see, and she's a woman, so it's OK. And of course the family guy in the movie is the real "monster". What exactly are we supposed to learn from this?

It's a function of the basic Woke morality algorithm, which defines imposed denial of intimacy, value, and power as the primary criterion of who deserves sympathy for their suffering and who doesn't, and which blames mainstream human society for that imposition and thus justifies the rejection and/or destruction of that society and its representatives/agents.

Of course, the key caveat is that even this doesn't apply if that imposed deprivation was only personal to you, rather than a social oppression applying to everyone like you. Otherwise they'd find themselves having to defend people like Elliot Rodger.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on November 14, 2022, 04:08:31 PM
I don’t watch the vampire show because I don’t subscribe to AMC+, but that sounds to me like good old fashioned “teenager gets superpowers and murders their high school bullies” type of plot. It’s just as badly motivated.

Out of curiosity, other than Chronicle, are there a lot of that kind of story?  Certainly one side effect of Columbine was to really deglamourize violent teen revenge stories, so I don't remember a lot of them.

And to be fair to the new Interview, Louis does still struggle with being a murderer, it's just really obvious which victims the showrunners expect the audience to find more sympathetic and which ones they expect the audience to forgive Louis for.
Most of the ones I'm familiar with, like Tamara or Toxic Avenger or All Cheerleaders Die, generally have the bullies go really far in abusing the hero/ine in order to justify killing them at the climax. Sexual abuse and murder are pretty common. It's also pretty common for the hero/monster to second guess kills or target people the narrative claims are innocent. And part of the trope is that it's common for the "heroes" to be literal monsters engaging in vigilante justice and even outright unjustified murder, depending on the precise genre.

In woke productions, it becomes more and more about uncritical petty murderous power fantasy towards people who don't yield to the protagonist's absurd sense of entitlement. Which is ironic, because they love accusing the opposition of the exact same (often validly, but I digress). For example, woke productions write incels (e.g. She-Hulk) while criticizing others for writing incels (e.g. Shield Hero). Hypocrisy at its finest.

The whole "words are violence" thing makes it increasingly difficult to take the "crimes" of the asshole victims seriously anymore. Rather than outright assaulting someone or having a history of criminal behavior, the asshole victims nowadays just say a few offensive words to the snowflake protagonist. And not even very creative ones. Just saying/implying "You're inferior because of your skin color, hurr durr" doesn't elicit as much of a visceral response as, say, "your mother whored herself to pay for your tuition" and then beating the protagonist to a pulp when he defends his mother's honor.

Someone being mildly assholish towards you doesn't justify you decapitating them with you superpowers. The punishment doesn't fit the crime.

Cyberpunk: Edgerunners got this right. The protagonist beats up his bully, embarrasses him in front of his cronies, and deflates the bully's huge ego, but he doesn't shred the bully into a pile of viscera.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on November 14, 2022, 09:09:28 PM
I don’t watch the vampire show because I don’t subscribe to AMC+, but that sounds to me like good old fashioned “teenager gets superpowers and murders their high school bullies” type of plot. It’s just as badly motivated.

Out of curiosity, other than Chronicle, are there a lot of that kind of story?  Certainly one side effect of Columbine was to really deglamourize violent teen revenge stories, so I don't remember a lot of them.

Carrie and Heathers are the quintessential ones that spring to mind for me - but there are a bunch of others. The Craft, John Tucker Must Die, Jawbreaker, etc.

More broadly, there are a lot of non-teen movies where the protagonist deals ultra-violent revenge that are more broad than just eye for an eye, like Death Wish or V for Vendetta. Often in revenge films, while there was a horrendous crime that is being avenged - there is a huge body count of people who have little connection to the initial crime, like in Commando, The Punisher, Kill Bill, etc.

Protagonists like Conan, The Bride, or The Punisher aren't good people - but the audience tends to cheer for them anyway out of a catharsis of taking on even worse guys.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 15, 2022, 12:19:50 AM
Carrie and Heathers are the quintessential ones that spring to mind for me - but there are a bunch of others. The Craft, John Tucker Must Die, Jawbreaker, etc.

Carrie, of course, I forgot Carrie. The Craft I might put on the edge, as the only actual death one of the once-bullied teen heroes personally causes is done via purely mundane means (she pushes the Jerk Jock she's whammied out a window).

The rest don't involve superpowers, though, and of them only Heathers (to the best of my research that I could find out) involves death by intentional violence; and all of them predate Columbine (1999). Still, Carrie is archetypal enough it almost accounts for keeping the trope alive all on its own.

Quote
More broadly, there are a lot of non-teen movies where the protagonist deals ultra-violent revenge that are more broad than just eye for an eye, like Death Wish or V for Vendetta. Often in revenge films, while there was a horrendous crime that is being avenged - there is a huge body count of people who have little connection to the initial crime, like in Commando, The Punisher, Kill Bill, etc.

Good point. One of the reasons I eventually soured on the Matrix films was the realization of how many innocent "coppertop" civilians or hapless security guards always died in any given Freemind vs. Agent action scene, all of whom are very clearly not expected to be remembered for more than a second or two.

(In the fan version of the third movie I'd have gotten to write in a genie-grants-my-wish universe, I set things up to make both "Zion" and the primary "Matrix" illusory environments, with a third layer beneath in which nobody ever died -- "death" in either environment was merely a temporary memory wipe and identity reboot.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on November 15, 2022, 12:33:27 PM
Carrie and Heathers are the quintessential ones that spring to mind for me - but there are a bunch of others. The Craft, John Tucker Must Die, Jawbreaker, etc.

Carrie, of course, I forgot Carrie. The Craft I might put on the edge, as the only actual death one of the once-bullied teen heroes personally causes is done via purely mundane means (she pushes the Jerk Jock she's whammied out a window).

The rest don't involve superpowers, though, and of them only Heathers (to the best of my research that I could find out) involves death by intentional violence; and all of them predate Columbine (1999). Still, Carrie is archetypal enough it almost accounts for keeping the trope alive all on its own.

Quote
More broadly, there are a lot of non-teen movies where the protagonist deals ultra-violent revenge that are more broad than just eye for an eye, like Death Wish or V for Vendetta. Often in revenge films, while there was a horrendous crime that is being avenged - there is a huge body count of people who have little connection to the initial crime, like in Commando, The Punisher, Kill Bill, etc.

Good point. One of the reasons I eventually soured on the Matrix films was the realization of how many innocent "coppertop" civilians or hapless security guards always died in any given Freemind vs. Agent action scene, all of whom are very clearly not expected to be remembered for more than a second or two.

(In the fan version of the third movie I'd have gotten to write in a genie-grants-my-wish universe, I set things up to make both "Zion" and the primary "Matrix" illusory environments, with a third layer beneath in which nobody ever died -- "death" in either environment was merely a temporary memory wipe and identity reboot.)

No, it's not a good point if you watched the movies:

Death Wish, the original, the protagonist sets up to avenge his family and not knowing who presents himself as a potential victim killing only those who would try to victimize him.

V for Vendetta has a revenge subplot, where V is killing those personally involved in his torture, and those he kills in a very specific way except for the chancellor who he has another of the culprits kill before killing him and his croonies who were trying to kill him. But the movie isn't a revenge film, it's an anti-totalitarian film.

Commando, who does Ahnold kill that's not directly involved in the kidnapping of his child?

The Punisher, who does Frank kill that's not a part of the gang that had his family killed?

Kill Bill, Too long since I watched it but I bet it's the same case.

As for JhKim's assertion of Conan and others not being good people... I guess he thinks you should never ever kill another human being... But he's for abortion.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 15, 2022, 02:45:18 PM
Carrie and Heathers are the quintessential ones that spring to mind for me - but there are a bunch of others. The Craft, John Tucker Must Die, Jawbreaker, etc.

Carrie, of course, I forgot Carrie. The Craft I might put on the edge, as the only actual death one of the once-bullied teen heroes personally causes is done via purely mundane means (she pushes the Jerk Jock she's whammied out a window).

The rest don't involve superpowers, though, and of them only Heathers (to the best of my research that I could find out) involves death by intentional violence; and all of them predate Columbine (1999). Still, Carrie is archetypal enough it almost accounts for keeping the trope alive all on its own.

Quote
More broadly, there are a lot of non-teen movies where the protagonist deals ultra-violent revenge that are more broad than just eye for an eye, like Death Wish or V for Vendetta. Often in revenge films, while there was a horrendous crime that is being avenged - there is a huge body count of people who have little connection to the initial crime, like in Commando, The Punisher, Kill Bill, etc.

Good point. One of the reasons I eventually soured on the Matrix films was the realization of how many innocent "coppertop" civilians or hapless security guards always died in any given Freemind vs. Agent action scene, all of whom are very clearly not expected to be remembered for more than a second or two.

(In the fan version of the third movie I'd have gotten to write in a genie-grants-my-wish universe, I set things up to make both "Zion" and the primary "Matrix" illusory environments, with a third layer beneath in which nobody ever died -- "death" in either environment was merely a temporary memory wipe and identity reboot.)

No, it's not a good point if you watched the movies:

Death Wish, the original, the protagonist sets up to avenge his family and not knowing who presents himself as a potential victim killing only those who would try to victimize him.

V for Vendetta has a revenge subplot, where V is killing those personally involved in his torture, and those he kills in a very specific way except for the chancellor who he has another of the culprits kill before killing him and his croonies who were trying to kill him. But the movie isn't a revenge film, it's an anti-totalitarian film.

Commando, who does Ahnold kill that's not directly involved in the kidnapping of his child?

The Punisher, who does Frank kill that's not a part of the gang that had his family killed?

Kill Bill, Too long since I watched it but I bet it's the same case.

As for JhKim's assertion of Conan and others not being good people... I guess he thinks you should never ever kill another human being... But he's for abortion.
I agree with almost with all of your points, but for Conan. Conan is fairly amoral. He was a pirate at one point, and that surely involves killing innocents. I doubt he was able to get all of his victims to peaceably surrender due to his reputation a la the Dread Pirate Roberts method.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on November 16, 2022, 01:27:43 PM
I've been watching the Dumpster fire of a thread about how Paradox Interactive/WW is supposedly racist and horrible for wanting the primary language of their Discord server to be English, and how making a separate channel for other language discussions is the 'height' of Segregation. Apparently Paradox needs to have Mods in every single spoken language, as that's the only fair and equitable thing to do.

I'm part of a Discord community that has a large Spanish speaking fanbase, despite being an English property. The runners of the community are Spanish language first... and yet because it's an English language property, they expect the language in all discussion channels to be English. They made a separate channel for Spanish language in their own server for this.

Nobody is complaining about this being 'racist' or 'segregating' or anything like that. But the big purple is ready to set fire to Paradox for not having a multilingual staff for every language spoken in their main discord server, and wanting it to be primarily English.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on November 16, 2022, 02:13:40 PM
Paradox has been doing almost everything they can to alienate their legacy ttrpg fandom. The 5th edition lore changes are widely despised and have split the community. The video game adaptations have been pretty terrible and obvious low-budget shovelware that was so cheaply made that even their meager sales were enough to make a profit. It's hilarious to watch. Not just because Paradox has been making the same mistakes as every company that messed with a long-running IP in the last decade, but also because the IP is genuinely hilariously bad in lots of places (it's already been retconned and rebooted a bunch of times before Paradox tried their hand at it) and Paradox only bought it to cash in the cult success of Troika's work on Bloodlines... while not bothering to replicate the writing or art style at all.

And now the fandom hates them for something as irrelevant as language settings. It's a hilarious trainwreck that just keeps getting funnier every time I hear about it.

I keep hoping for competitors to swoop in and corner the market, but nothing like that ever happens. I like urban fantasy and I'm frustrated af that this dumpster fire fandom is the only urban fantasy gaming community that exists in either the ttrpg or video game industries. (I know about Shadowrun, but I'm not interested in urban fantasy post-apocalypse cyberpunk specifically. I'm into Potter-esque secret world settings but made for adult audiences.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on November 18, 2022, 01:12:44 AM
Conan is not a good person.  He's not a psycho who'd just indiscriminately murder, but he's absolutely out for number one, and has no shame in it.  Guy absolutely screwed over people and left them to die in the stories.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on November 19, 2022, 05:55:00 PM
Conan is not a good person.  He's not a psycho who'd just indiscriminately murder, but he's absolutely out for number one, and has no shame in it.  Guy absolutely screwed over people and left them to die in the stories.

Yup. And I love those stories. Enjoying something in a story isn't the same thing as enjoying something in real life.

People's real-life beliefs influence their taste in stories, but they aren't identical.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on November 19, 2022, 08:51:13 PM
So tempted to log in to the Purple Shithole just to let them know Trump has been reinstated on Twatter. The lefty REEEEEing is going to be audible from space.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on November 19, 2022, 09:51:36 PM
So tempted to log in to the Purple Shithole just to let them know Trump has been reinstated on Twatter. The lefty REEEEEing is going to be audible from space.

Music.  Sweet music.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: nielspeterdejong on November 21, 2022, 06:51:27 AM
Funny how we're just a vocal minority and publishers/directors/studios/etc shouldn't pay attention to what we want but we're also powerful enough that a "small minority" of angry, manbaby, misogynerds can destroy Star Wars.

Misogynerds of the world unite!!!!

You summed it up nicely to be honest :D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: nielspeterdejong on November 21, 2022, 06:52:30 AM
They've really been leaning into the "A Game" excuse to find reasons to censure and ban posters lately.

NOT WOKE ENOUGH!

They are literally "purifying" the site from those who speak against "their quest for purity".
Or lack sufficient purity, or run afoul of the mods, or are friends with someone problematic, or do something offsite that hurts their fee-fee's, or... and so on. But you knew that already.

I've been checking their Current Visitors page quite a bit. I've yet to see the registered users clock over 250, and I've seen it drop as low as 170. Guests, of course, vary wildly.

I wonder what the numbers are for Giants In The Playground (the Order of the Stick forum site). I may need to check that.

How is the Order of the Stick doing? Please don't tell me they've gone woke too...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on November 21, 2022, 07:36:49 AM
How is the Order of the Stick doing? Please don't tell me they've gone woke too...

That went woke ages ago.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: nielspeterdejong on November 21, 2022, 09:45:18 AM
How is the Order of the Stick doing? Please don't tell me they've gone woke too...

That went woke ages ago.

The forum or the creators? And is that why they seem less active these days?

What active non-woke forums are left for roleplaying?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 21, 2022, 10:07:54 AM
How is the Order of the Stick doing? Please don't tell me they've gone woke too...

That went woke ages ago.

The forum or the creators? And is that why they seem less active these days?

What active non-woke forums are left for roleplaying?
This one?

There is also the HarnForum, but as the name implies it is very, very much focused on Harn. I don’t visit there much, but I haven’t noticed it being Woke-ified.
https://www.lythia.com/forum/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: nielspeterdejong on November 21, 2022, 10:22:00 AM
I didn't name Kennedy because it's too easy to dump all the blame on her. There are a host of people at Lucasfilm that went along with this. I'm sure there's at least one other person at Disney/Lucasfilm who backed her play. Probably many.
I despise how Kennedy has run the franchise into the ground, but I also despise the people who helped it happen.

For sure Bob Iger approved her management, at least initially. "The Force Awakens" was terribly derivative, but enjoyable as a "sugar rush".

The Force Awakens was terrible and things just got worse from there.

Getting through shields by traveling through hyperspace levels of retardation.

That honestly always bothered me. Why, in the original OG lore, weren't people able to just make a massive astroid and use a hyperdrive to proper it like a weapon? Not saying I liked The Last Jedi, as it was absolute garbage, but I'd like to believe that the Extended Universe did cover that at some point?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on November 21, 2022, 12:38:04 PM
  Conan STARTS as amoral and only out for number 1.  By the time he is king, he is completely different in his worldview and what he is willing to risk for others and how much he thinks through his actions before acting.   He has a large character arc and is NOT the same man as king that he was when he climbed the tower of the elephant.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on November 21, 2022, 12:48:20 PM
I didn't name Kennedy because it's too easy to dump all the blame on her. There are a host of people at Lucasfilm that went along with this. I'm sure there's at least one other person at Disney/Lucasfilm who backed her play. Probably many.
I despise how Kennedy has run the franchise into the ground, but I also despise the people who helped it happen.

For sure Bob Iger approved her management, at least initially. "The Force Awakens" was terribly derivative, but enjoyable as a "sugar rush".

The Force Awakens was terrible and things just got worse from there.

Getting through shields by traveling through hyperspace levels of retardation.

That honestly always bothered me. Why, in the original OG lore, weren't people able to just make a massive astroid and use a hyperdrive to proper it like a weapon? Not saying I liked The Last Jedi, as it was absolute garbage, but I'd like to believe that the Extended Universe did cover that at some point?
In scifi they're called RKVs (relativistic kill vehicles) and most scifi mentions countermeasures exist to prevent them from proliferating. In the EU, at least one author mentioned they exist and are held in check by devices that can prevent hyperspace jumps. If both the rebels and the empire have casual RKVs and no countermeasures, then they realistically can't be fighting without obliterating the galaxy in the process. They'd have a cold war, or they'd wipe out 90% of the galaxy before signing a peace treaty for the sake of self-preservation. If all FTL drives are potential RKVs, then I'm pretty sure FTL travel would be tightly regulated to prevent terrorist attacks. You'd probably see a Spacing Guild formed to maintain a monopoly on space travel to prevent RKVs.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on November 21, 2022, 02:05:14 PM
Modern Hollywood doesn't understand morality because Weinstein and his ilk selected the people in Hollywood until basically no one was left who has a spine. There are a few who still try, but at the bigger scale Hollywood producers up to sleazy stuff at best don't want to spend hundreds of millions on a movie only for it to make them feel uncomfortable.

I didn't name Kennedy because it's too easy to dump all the blame on her. There are a host of people at Lucasfilm that went along with this. I'm sure there's at least one other person at Disney/Lucasfilm who backed her play. Probably many.
I despise how Kennedy has run the franchise into the ground, but I also despise the people who helped it happen.

For sure Bob Iger approved her management, at least initially. "The Force Awakens" was terribly derivative, but enjoyable as a "sugar rush".

The Force Awakens was terrible and things just got worse from there.

Getting through shields by traveling through hyperspace levels of retardation.

That honestly always bothered me. Why, in the original OG lore, weren't people able to just make a massive astroid and use a hyperdrive to proper it like a weapon? Not saying I liked The Last Jedi, as it was absolute garbage, but I'd like to believe that the Extended Universe did cover that at some point?
In scifi they're called RKVs (relativistic kill vehicles) and most scifi mentions countermeasures exist to prevent them from proliferating. In the EU, at least one author mentioned they exist and are held in check by devices that can prevent hyperspace jumps. If both the rebels and the empire have casual RKVs and no countermeasures, then they realistically can't be fighting without obliterating the galaxy in the process. They'd have a cold war, or they'd wipe out 90% of the galaxy before signing a peace treaty for the sake of self-preservation. If all FTL drives are potential RKVs, then I'm pretty sure FTL travel would be tightly regulated to prevent terrorist attacks. You'd probably see a Spacing Guild formed to maintain a monopoly on space travel to prevent RKVs.

Really, the RKV scene in TLJ would have been so easy to fix by implying that Holdo had done something to the hyperdrive and took the secret of what to her grave to prevent RKV proliferation. Great solution? No, but it would work. It's not that the movie couldn't have been saved and made somewhat sensible...it's that Rian Johnson rolled with a first draft script which didn't polish out these problems.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on November 21, 2022, 02:10:01 PM
All it takes to fix that scene is to have the imperials react with scorn and disbelief and one guy saying, "that never works."

All it takes to fix Star Killer Base being seen visually all over the republic is the launch of a few thousand projector drones.

There are bigger flaws, like Snoke being so significant but lacking much of an explanation or story arc that are harder but not impossible to fix.

Disney, on the other hand probably can't be fixed short of bankruptcy and dissolution.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on November 21, 2022, 03:11:04 PM
That honestly always bothered me. Why, in the original OG lore, weren't people able to just make a massive astroid and use a hyperdrive to proper it like a weapon? Not saying I liked The Last Jedi, as it was absolute garbage, but I'd like to believe that the Extended Universe did cover that at some point?

   By EU rules, the asteroid would come out of hyperspace once it got within the planet's gravity well, and I think the unspoken assumption was that most planets had sufficient defenses to intercept such things in time.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 22, 2022, 10:15:01 AM
That honestly always bothered me. Why, in the original OG lore, weren't people able to just make a massive astroid and use a hyperdrive to proper it like a weapon? Not saying I liked The Last Jedi, as it was absolute garbage, but I'd like to believe that the Extended Universe did cover that at some point?

   By EU rules, the asteroid would come out of hyperspace once it got within the planet's gravity well, and I think the unspoken assumption was that most planets had sufficient defenses to intercept such things in time.

Yeah. I was under the impression that vehicles travelling via Hyperspace were intangible to real world objects, but still affected by their gravity. Thus the Interdictor class Star Destroyer.

The scene in TLJ is so spectacularly dumb because they didn't give a fig about the storytelling problems it creates, that most (all?) sci-fi fans understand.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on November 22, 2022, 03:13:49 PM
Yeah. I was under the impression that vehicles travelling via Hyperspace were intangible to real world objects, but still affected by their gravity. Thus the Interdictor class Star Destroyer.

The scene in TLJ is so spectacularly dumb because they didn't give a fig about the storytelling problems it creates, that most (all?) sci-fi fans understand.

"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"

Of course, that nixes the whole EU gravity well problem, but also suggests that hyperspace travel still has to worry about physical objects.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on November 22, 2022, 08:18:03 PM
"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"

Of course, that nixes the whole EU gravity well problem, but also suggests that hyperspace travel still has to worry about physical objects.

   Well, that's also Han " 'Made the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs'" Solo talking, so while he's probably right generally, I wouldn't appeal to it regarding precise technical details. :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 22, 2022, 11:51:29 PM
Yeah. I was under the impression that vehicles travelling via Hyperspace were intangible to real world objects, but still affected by their gravity. Thus the Interdictor class Star Destroyer.

The scene in TLJ is so spectacularly dumb because they didn't give a fig about the storytelling problems it creates, that most (all?) sci-fi fans understand.

"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"


If ships travelling via hyperspace are intangible, but can be pulled out of hyperspace by gravity wells then flying through a star or bouncing too close to a supernova would be very bad.

If ships in hyperspace can impact physical objects, then any particles, asteroids, other ships, etc, etc, would "Holdo" ships all the time.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on November 23, 2022, 07:02:51 PM
I don’t watch the vampire show because I don’t subscribe to AMC+, but that sounds to me like good old fashioned “teenager gets superpowers and murders their high school bullies” type of plot. It’s just as badly motivated. Just because someone is mean to you doesn’t mean you have any right to murder them. That’s just pettiness.

If it was framed as bad for the protagonist to become a slasher villain, then that’s one thing. This sounds like it’s framed as a good thing, which is not a healthy message to promote. “If you don’t like the way someone treats you, then you should kill them” is a terrible message.





According to the Critical Drinker, a similar thing happens in Wakanda Forever.  Not to spoil it, but a "hero" escapes by killing a mass of cops (via thrown object and explosion) who are just trying to stop them from leaving.  Something that should result in a prison sentence, but in this case goes totally without remark for the rest of the movie...

The Critical Drinker's After Hours review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRUAqraFFY

The morality of some "heroes" is something I've found disgusting.
Like, in the extended version of LOTR, Aragorn cuts the head off the Mouth of Sauron, when in the scene in the book, it was clearly stated to be a parley that both sides honored, and Aragorn didn't just fly into a rage an behead someone over smacktalk.
Optimus Prime in the Bay films gets worse and worse. He executes a helpless foe seemingly just out of spite.
And so many stronk female characters who abuse their power to torture some dude who acted sexist.

I don't expect fictional heroes to act like saints, but I do expect them to have some kind of restraint.

In fairness neither in the book nor move does Aragorn open up with an offer of parlay but to 'Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth! Justice shall be done upon him". This does not sound like the words of parlay but of a King preparing to pass sentence on a criminal. 

Gandalf in the movie then specifically notes they are NOT treating with Sauron but providing their sentence on him and what leniency they will grant if the sentence is followed (i.e exile or destruction).  The Mouth of Sauron responds by noting (confessing?) they have tortured and killed Frodo. 

Aragorn then executes the Mouth of Sauron in accordance with what I would imagine is pretty standard justice of the world.  In this context I don't think Aragorn acted outside his moral authority or dishonoured any norms of parlay (again he and Gandalf were very specific with their intentions).

In the book there is a bit more nuance, the scene opens in a similar way and Aragorn does reach for his sword and the Mouth acts aghast. Gandalf in fact subtly threatens the Mouth that the laws of parlay do not apply because of Sauron's behaviour and by the end of the scene does threaten the Mouth with death if he does not immediatly depart noting that the Mouth's embassy is over and the good guys have no intention of treating with Sauron.

In effect the ultimate motivations and core morality of the characters are the same in both film and book but the scene is different because of the short-term strategy of the characters in the different telling.  In the movie Aragorn and Gandalf are more upfront about passing sentence on Sauron and having no interest in further parlay, in the book Gandalf and Aragorn are willing to stall Sauron further by giving him a chance to "consider" their terms (knowing he'd refuse anyway).   



Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 23, 2022, 11:31:33 PM
I don’t watch the vampire show because I don’t subscribe to AMC+, but that sounds to me like good old fashioned “teenager gets superpowers and murders their high school bullies” type of plot. It’s just as badly motivated. Just because someone is mean to you doesn’t mean you have any right to murder them. That’s just pettiness.

If it was framed as bad for the protagonist to become a slasher villain, then that’s one thing. This sounds like it’s framed as a good thing, which is not a healthy message to promote. “If you don’t like the way someone treats you, then you should kill them” is a terrible message.





According to the Critical Drinker, a similar thing happens in Wakanda Forever.  Not to spoil it, but a "hero" escapes by killing a mass of cops (via thrown object and explosion) who are just trying to stop them from leaving.  Something that should result in a prison sentence, but in this case goes totally without remark for the rest of the movie...

The Critical Drinker's After Hours review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRUAqraFFY

The morality of some "heroes" is something I've found disgusting.
Like, in the extended version of LOTR, Aragorn cuts the head off the Mouth of Sauron, when in the scene in the book, it was clearly stated to be a parley that both sides honored, and Aragorn didn't just fly into a rage an behead someone over smacktalk.
Optimus Prime in the Bay films gets worse and worse. He executes a helpless foe seemingly just out of spite.
And so many stronk female characters who abuse their power to torture some dude who acted sexist.

I don't expect fictional heroes to act like saints, but I do expect them to have some kind of restraint.

In fairness neither in the book nor move does Aragorn open up with an offer of parlay but to 'Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth! Justice shall be done upon him". This does not sound like the words of parlay but of a King preparing to pass sentence on a criminal. 

'Is there anyone in this rout with authority to treat with me?' he asked. 'Or indeed with wit to understand me? Not thou at least!' he mocked, turning to Aragorn with scorn. 'It needs more to make a king than a piece of elvish glass, or a rabble such as this. Why, any brigand of the hills can show as good a following!'

Aragorn said naught in answer, but he took the other's eye and held it, and for a moment they strove thus; but soon, though Aragorn did not stir nor move hand to weapon, the other quailed and gave back as if menaced with a blow. 'I am a herald and ambassador, and may not be assailed!' he cried.

'Where such laws hold,' said Gandalf, 'it is also the custom for ambassadors to use less insolence. But no one has threatened you. You have naught to fear from us, until your errand is done. But unless your master has come to new wisdom, then with all his servants you will be in great peril.'
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on November 24, 2022, 04:33:12 AM
I don’t watch the vampire show because I don’t subscribe to AMC+, but that sounds to me like good old fashioned “teenager gets superpowers and murders their high school bullies” type of plot. It’s just as badly motivated. Just because someone is mean to you doesn’t mean you have any right to murder them. That’s just pettiness.

If it was framed as bad for the protagonist to become a slasher villain, then that’s one thing. This sounds like it’s framed as a good thing, which is not a healthy message to promote. “If you don’t like the way someone treats you, then you should kill them” is a terrible message.





According to the Critical Drinker, a similar thing happens in Wakanda Forever.  Not to spoil it, but a "hero" escapes by killing a mass of cops (via thrown object and explosion) who are just trying to stop them from leaving.  Something that should result in a prison sentence, but in this case goes totally without remark for the rest of the movie...

The Critical Drinker's After Hours review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRUAqraFFY

The morality of some "heroes" is something I've found disgusting.
Like, in the extended version of LOTR, Aragorn cuts the head off the Mouth of Sauron, when in the scene in the book, it was clearly stated to be a parley that both sides honored, and Aragorn didn't just fly into a rage an behead someone over smacktalk.
Optimus Prime in the Bay films gets worse and worse. He executes a helpless foe seemingly just out of spite.
And so many stronk female characters who abuse their power to torture some dude who acted sexist.

I don't expect fictional heroes to act like saints, but I do expect them to have some kind of restraint.

In fairness neither in the book nor move does Aragorn open up with an offer of parlay but to 'Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth! Justice shall be done upon him". This does not sound like the words of parlay but of a King preparing to pass sentence on a criminal. 

'Is there anyone in this rout with authority to treat with me?' he asked. 'Or indeed with wit to understand me? Not thou at least!' he mocked, turning to Aragorn with scorn. 'It needs more to make a king than a piece of elvish glass, or a rabble such as this. Why, any brigand of the hills can show as good a following!'

Aragorn said naught in answer, but he took the other's eye and held it, and for a moment they strove thus; but soon, though Aragorn did not stir nor move hand to weapon, the other quailed and gave back as if menaced with a blow. 'I am a herald and ambassador, and may not be assailed!' he cried.

'Where such laws hold,' said Gandalf, 'it is also the custom for ambassadors to use less insolence. But no one has threatened you. You have naught to fear from us, until your errand is done. But unless your master has come to new wisdom, then with all his servants you will be in great peril.'

Yes. That was what I said. Aragorn doesn't open with an offer to parlay. In the book Gandalf effectively agrees to treat, in the films he doesn't. And is very explicit about it in fact. In the film Gandalf says "we are not here to treat with Sauron".

The Mouth should have left. Instead he stayed around to taunt Aragorn and the rest who had already said he had come in the role of judge.

My point is it's not a good example of Hollywood diminishing the morality of characters in movies because Jackson adapts the set up and lines in the scene to justify Aragorns execution.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 24, 2022, 06:04:53 AM
I don’t watch the vampire show because I don’t subscribe to AMC+, but that sounds to me like good old fashioned “teenager gets superpowers and murders their high school bullies” type of plot. It’s just as badly motivated. Just because someone is mean to you doesn’t mean you have any right to murder them. That’s just pettiness.

If it was framed as bad for the protagonist to become a slasher villain, then that’s one thing. This sounds like it’s framed as a good thing, which is not a healthy message to promote. “If you don’t like the way someone treats you, then you should kill them” is a terrible message.





According to the Critical Drinker, a similar thing happens in Wakanda Forever.  Not to spoil it, but a "hero" escapes by killing a mass of cops (via thrown object and explosion) who are just trying to stop them from leaving.  Something that should result in a prison sentence, but in this case goes totally without remark for the rest of the movie...

The Critical Drinker's After Hours review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRUAqraFFY

The morality of some "heroes" is something I've found disgusting.
Like, in the extended version of LOTR, Aragorn cuts the head off the Mouth of Sauron, when in the scene in the book, it was clearly stated to be a parley that both sides honored, and Aragorn didn't just fly into a rage an behead someone over smacktalk.
Optimus Prime in the Bay films gets worse and worse. He executes a helpless foe seemingly just out of spite.
And so many stronk female characters who abuse their power to torture some dude who acted sexist.

I don't expect fictional heroes to act like saints, but I do expect them to have some kind of restraint.

In fairness neither in the book nor move does Aragorn open up with an offer of parlay but to 'Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth! Justice shall be done upon him". This does not sound like the words of parlay but of a King preparing to pass sentence on a criminal. 

'Is there anyone in this rout with authority to treat with me?' he asked. 'Or indeed with wit to understand me? Not thou at least!' he mocked, turning to Aragorn with scorn. 'It needs more to make a king than a piece of elvish glass, or a rabble such as this. Why, any brigand of the hills can show as good a following!'

Aragorn said naught in answer, but he took the other's eye and held it, and for a moment they strove thus; but soon, though Aragorn did not stir nor move hand to weapon, the other quailed and gave back as if menaced with a blow. 'I am a herald and ambassador, and may not be assailed!' he cried.

'Where such laws hold,' said Gandalf, 'it is also the custom for ambassadors to use less insolence. But no one has threatened you. You have naught to fear from us, until your errand is done. But unless your master has come to new wisdom, then with all his servants you will be in great peril.'

Yes. That was what I said. Aragorn doesn't open with an offer to parlay. In the book Gandalf effectively agrees to treat, in the films he doesn't. And is very explicit about it in fact. In the film Gandalf says "we are not here to treat with Sauron".

Yes. It's a terrible adaptation choice. One important part of that scene is to show that Aragorn is in control and can't be easily goaded by a powerful servant of Sauron.

Quote
The Mouth should have left. Instead he stayed around to taunt Aragorn and the rest who had already said he had come in the role of judge.

My point is it's not a good example of Hollywood diminishing the morality of characters in movies because Jackson adapts the set up and lines in the scene to justify Aragorns execution.

The only good thing about that scene was the choice to cut it. Though probably for time and not for the reason I mentioned. As is, it's an excuse for Aragorn to hack off somebody's head, and the scene is twisted to justify it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on November 24, 2022, 09:00:28 AM
I don’t watch the vampire show because I don’t subscribe to AMC+, but that sounds to me like good old fashioned “teenager gets superpowers and murders their high school bullies” type of plot. It’s just as badly motivated. Just because someone is mean to you doesn’t mean you have any right to murder them. That’s just pettiness.

If it was framed as bad for the protagonist to become a slasher villain, then that’s one thing. This sounds like it’s framed as a good thing, which is not a healthy message to promote. “If you don’t like the way someone treats you, then you should kill them” is a terrible message.





According to the Critical Drinker, a similar thing happens in Wakanda Forever.  Not to spoil it, but a "hero" escapes by killing a mass of cops (via thrown object and explosion) who are just trying to stop them from leaving.  Something that should result in a prison sentence, but in this case goes totally without remark for the rest of the movie...

The Critical Drinker's After Hours review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRUAqraFFY

The morality of some "heroes" is something I've found disgusting.
Like, in the extended version of LOTR, Aragorn cuts the head off the Mouth of Sauron, when in the scene in the book, it was clearly stated to be a parley that both sides honored, and Aragorn didn't just fly into a rage an behead someone over smacktalk.
Optimus Prime in the Bay films gets worse and worse. He executes a helpless foe seemingly just out of spite.
And so many stronk female characters who abuse their power to torture some dude who acted sexist.

I don't expect fictional heroes to act like saints, but I do expect them to have some kind of restraint.

In fairness neither in the book nor move does Aragorn open up with an offer of parlay but to 'Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth! Justice shall be done upon him". This does not sound like the words of parlay but of a King preparing to pass sentence on a criminal. 

'Is there anyone in this rout with authority to treat with me?' he asked. 'Or indeed with wit to understand me? Not thou at least!' he mocked, turning to Aragorn with scorn. 'It needs more to make a king than a piece of elvish glass, or a rabble such as this. Why, any brigand of the hills can show as good a following!'

Aragorn said naught in answer, but he took the other's eye and held it, and for a moment they strove thus; but soon, though Aragorn did not stir nor move hand to weapon, the other quailed and gave back as if menaced with a blow. 'I am a herald and ambassador, and may not be assailed!' he cried.

'Where such laws hold,' said Gandalf, 'it is also the custom for ambassadors to use less insolence. But no one has threatened you. You have naught to fear from us, until your errand is done. But unless your master has come to new wisdom, then with all his servants you will be in great peril.'

Yes. That was what I said. Aragorn doesn't open with an offer to parlay. In the book Gandalf effectively agrees to treat, in the films he doesn't. And is very explicit about it in fact. In the film Gandalf says "we are not here to treat with Sauron".

Yes. It's a terrible adaptation choice. One important part of that scene is to show that Aragorn is in control and can't be easily goaded by a powerful servant of Sauron.

Quote
The Mouth should have left. Instead he stayed around to taunt Aragorn and the rest who had already said he had come in the role of judge.

My point is it's not a good example of Hollywood diminishing the morality of characters in movies because Jackson adapts the set up and lines in the scene to justify Aragorns execution.

The only good thing about that scene was the choice to cut it. Though probably for time and not for the reason I mentioned. As is, it's an excuse for Aragorn to hack off somebody's head, and the scene is twisted to justify it.

From memory I think in the commentary someone does mention that Aragorn beheading the guy doesn't come across as justified as during the writing and filming process and that was a reason to cut it.

At the time they were also nervous that throughout the entire series there weren't really any scenes from Saurons point of view or giving him a voice which would be an unusual choice in most other movies.  So they filmed the scene but it didn't really work in the pacing of the theatrical release

Personally I don't think the scene is terrible from the point of view that it paints Argorn as a terrible person because it doesn't particularly, especially on rewatch. I think the main issue is simply narratively it paints the Mouth of Sauron as a bit dumb that he thinks he would survive that encounter considering they explciitly aren't parlaying. On the other hand thematically that speaks to Saurons arrogance which is ultimately why he fails.


Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on November 26, 2022, 03:27:05 PM
All it takes to fix that scene is to have the imperials react with scorn and disbelief and one guy saying, "that never works."

I read that in "Rocky the Flying Squirrel" voice.  God I feel ancient!
(and it would be really really weird if said One Guy spoke in a husky falsetto).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Visitor Q on December 03, 2022, 08:09:09 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mythras-mythic-polynesia.904650/

And now the next thrilling installment of  "fuck you the objective facts don't matter" brought to you by The Big Purple. What a shit show lol.

TLDR Someone pointed out in the most minimal terms that a tribe in the Mythras book  Monster Island were Lizard People not humans (true) and caught a ban for it. Because racism n' stuff mkay.

And then it kicked off....

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 03, 2022, 08:31:11 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mythras-mythic-polynesia.904650/

And now the next thrilling installment of  "fuck you the objective facts don't matter" brought to you by The Big Purple. What a shit show lol.

TLDR Someone pointed out in the most minimal terms that a tribe in the Mythras book  Monster Island were Lizard People not humans (true) and caught a ban for it. Because racism n' stuff mkay.

And then it kicked off....

Everyone is Very Dissapointed.  ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on December 03, 2022, 10:23:02 PM
Racism against lizard people in the real world is a real issue with a horrible history.  When the conspiracy people can't blame the Jews they always shift to the lizard people.  When oh when will the lizard people know justice?!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on December 03, 2022, 10:44:50 PM
Racism against lizard people in the real world is a real issue with a horrible history.  When the conspiracy people can't blame the Jews they always shift to the lizard people.  When oh when will the lizard people know justice?!

When the scales are balanced, of course.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on December 03, 2022, 11:18:02 PM
I tried to live and let-live with the Lizard people. I even tried romancing a Lizard lady, but ended up with egg on my face.

If they've got nothing to hide, why do they wear Human disguises, and only show up in freeze-framed TV recordings?

Remember, a Lizard is just a snake with delusions of grandeur.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: zincmoat on December 05, 2022, 08:53:23 AM
And then it kicked off....

May be it is the Purple Lizard people David Icke was warning as about?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on December 05, 2022, 09:59:48 AM
Can we just go back to when complete parody of cultures was ok. I honestly lose a bit respect for people who can't take a harmless stereotype or joke at the expense of their own culture.

Here's Asterix and Obelix in front of some "vikings". Should I be offended?

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.WlqZP438CRuoZxZ4-piDTQHaC9%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=2c114da3fa5b94640dc77352c23cdd73f5c314ccaef6fc07c68a4dc06f939d77&ipo=images)

But of course usually, it's not the people of that culture who are offended. It's a bunch of SJWs who have outrage as a hobby, perhaps howling around one or two easily offended "ethnic" persons at best.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: MeganovaStella on December 06, 2022, 12:07:25 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mythras-mythic-polynesia.904650/

And now the next thrilling installment of  "fuck you the objective facts don't matter" brought to you by The Big Purple. What a shit show lol.

TLDR Someone pointed out in the most minimal terms that a tribe in the Mythras book  Monster Island were Lizard People not humans (true) and caught a ban for it. Because racism n' stuff mkay.

And then it kicked off....

immediately checked out when i saw someone say that romans were bronze age.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on December 06, 2022, 03:29:42 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mythras-mythic-polynesia.904650/

And now the next thrilling installment of  "fuck you the objective facts don't matter" brought to you by The Big Purple. What a shit show lol.

TLDR Someone pointed out in the most minimal terms that a tribe in the Mythras book  Monster Island were Lizard People not humans (true) and caught a ban for it. Because racism n' stuff mkay.

And then it kicked off....

immediately checked out when i saw someone say that romans were bronze age.

Because that person is obviously a SJW, Arachne has to hop in and say "you're right, although you're sorta wrong, I mean you're 100% right, although you're wrong" to paraphrase a bit  ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on December 06, 2022, 05:07:58 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mythras-mythic-polynesia.904650/

And now the next thrilling installment of  "fuck you the objective facts don't matter" brought to you by The Big Purple. What a shit show lol.

TLDR Someone pointed out in the most minimal terms that a tribe in the Mythras book  Monster Island were Lizard People not humans (true) and caught a ban for it. Because racism n' stuff mkay.

And then it kicked off....

immediately checked out when i saw someone say that romans were bronze age.

Because that person is obviously a SJW, Arachne has to hop in and say "you're right, although you're sorta wrong, I mean you're 100% right, although you're wrong" to paraphrase a bit  ;D
My favorite was people started questioning the ban about pointing out the lizardmen and that it made no sense. The mod response? Lock the thread and say they're in discussions about who else to ban for questioning their ban.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on December 06, 2022, 05:28:33 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mythras-mythic-polynesia.904650/

And now the next thrilling installment of  "fuck you the objective facts don't matter" brought to you by The Big Purple. What a shit show lol.

TLDR Someone pointed out in the most minimal terms that a tribe in the Mythras book  Monster Island were Lizard People not humans (true) and caught a ban for it. Because racism n' stuff mkay.

And then it kicked off....

immediately checked out when i saw someone say that romans were bronze age.

Because that person is obviously a SJW, Arachne has to hop in and say "you're right, although you're sorta wrong, I mean you're 100% right, although you're wrong" to paraphrase a bit  ;D
My favorite was people started questioning the ban about pointing out the lizardmen and that it made no sense. The mod response? Lock the thread and say they're in discussions about who else to ban for questioning their ban.
It’s an “A-game” thread. Anyone participating in that thread should know that an A-game thread is nothing more than TBP’s equivalent of the Two Minutes of Hate. Any deviation from the hate exercise reduces its impact as a brainwashing opportunity for the Woke cult, and will be punished. Not even for anything actually objectionable, but for disrupting the hate exercise by introducing any kind of nuance or actual true conversation.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: psiconauta_retro on December 06, 2022, 06:57:15 PM
It’s an “A-game” thread. Anyone participating in that thread should know that an A-game thread is nothing more than TBP’s equivalent of the Two Minutes of Hate. Any deviation from the hate exercise reduces its impact as a brainwashing opportunity for the Woke cult, and will be punished. Not even for anything actually objectionable, but for disrupting the hate exercise by introducing any kind of nuance or actual true conversation.

THIS! THIS IS IT!

It is obvious that the ban didn't make sense, and the mods were exposed by the posters commenting about it. Some heads will roll for this ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on December 06, 2022, 08:13:07 PM

It’s an “A-game” thread. ....

And why is it called that?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on December 06, 2022, 09:25:39 PM

It’s an “A-game” thread. ....

And why is it called that?
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/🚦-a-game-threads.869725/
The above link give the official explanation, but it’s bullshit. The will not tolerate any actual thoughtful conversation as that would subvert its actual purpose of being Two Minutes of Hate.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on December 06, 2022, 11:10:53 PM

It’s an “A-game” thread. ....

And why is it called that?
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/🚦-a-game-threads.869725/
The above link give the official explanation, but it’s bullshit. The will not tolerate any actual thoughtful conversation as that would subvert its actual purpose of being Two Minutes of Hate.

Thanks!

Quote
Don't make the discussion about how it affects non-minoritized people.

What I meant to say is damn you for posting that and showing me yet another new SJW buzzword.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on December 09, 2022, 09:37:16 AM
oh my gosh. Reading that Mythic Polynesia thread left me so bewildered. The mods and sycophants on tbp are so so deranged. Kudos to TDM for stirring it up LOL
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on December 10, 2022, 05:40:58 AM
I used to visit rpgnet everyday back in the early days. Now I only visit this thread for the schadenfreude of watching the woke machine devour itself.

The SJW world view is destined to collapse, like all philosophies built on a shoddy foundation do. It will be interesting to see what it morphs into. Will it dissipate? Or will it transform into something worse? If America doesn't get a handle on its Communism infection this will end badly.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: The Spaniard on December 10, 2022, 04:17:55 PM
I have a headache after going through that thread.  People falling on their knees to apologize.  Who the fuck cares?  Will any of that egregious virtual signaling change anything?  Nope.
 I'm still amazed they have a squad of people just looking for offenses to ban people.  What a bunch of jagoffs.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on December 10, 2022, 06:55:17 PM
I have a headache after going through that thread.  People falling on their knees to apologize.  Who the fuck cares?  Will any of that egregious virtual signaling change anything?  Nope.
 I'm still amazed the have a squad of people just looking for offenses to ban people.  What a bunch of jagoffs.
My thoughts exactly. It’s pathetic.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on December 10, 2022, 10:05:41 PM
For almost 50 years, RPGs have been a haven for the socially awkward, the marginalized, and those looking for a community to accept them.  And, with very few exceptions, RPGs have lived up to that.  As long as you wanted to game, the game was there for you.  So, I think it's fair to say that a sizable chunk of RPG players often are looking for a place to fit in (most people who are happy with their life don't spend most of it pretending to be someone or somewhere else.. especially when they are young).  So I think the groveling on TBP is totally understandable.  Think of someone you know who was not particularly successful with girls.  Then, after finally finding that first girlfriend, how resistant was that person to moving on from that girlfriend, even when she was obviously awful?  The people at TBP have finally found a place to "fit in," to be "accepted."  It's no wonder they are willing to put up with being treated like crap.  Honestly, I only feel pity for the average poster there. 

Now, the mods are a different story.  They are the fat, ugly girls that have finally found a boy so desperate to chase them, and they are determined to lord their newfound "power" over them.  Nope, sorry, but you're just a two prancing like a ten. It's the mods I reserve my contempt for...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on December 11, 2022, 07:59:35 AM
For almost 50 years, RPGs have been a haven for the socially awkward, the marginalized, and those looking for a community to accept them.  And, with very few exceptions, RPGs have lived up to that.  As long as you wanted to game, the game was there for you.  So, I think it's fair to say that a sizable chunk of RPG players often are looking for a place to fit in (most people who are happy with their life don't spend most of it pretending to be someone or somewhere else.. especially when they are young).  So I think the groveling on TBP is totally understandable.  Think of someone you know who was not particularly successful with girls.  Then, after finally finding that first girlfriend, how resistant was that person to moving on from that girlfriend, even when she was obviously awful?  The people at TBP have finally found a place to "fit in," to be "accepted."  It's no wonder they are willing to put up with being treated like crap.  Honestly, I only feel pity for the average poster there. 

Now, the mods are a different story.  They are the fat, ugly girls that have finally found a boy so desperate to chase them, and they are determined to lord their newfound "power" over them.  Nope, sorry, but you're just a two prancing like a ten. It's the mods I reserve my contempt for...
With TBP I think it’s more like the difference between cult leadership and their cult followers/victims. At least there isn’t poison-laced Kool-Aid that the cult leaders can send through the internet.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on December 11, 2022, 09:53:42 AM
For almost 50 years, RPGs have been a haven for the socially awkward, the marginalized, and those looking for a community to accept them.  And, with very few exceptions, RPGs have lived up to that.  As long as you wanted to game, the game was there for you.  So, I think it's fair to say that a sizable chunk of RPG players often are looking for a place to fit in (most people who are happy with their life don't spend most of it pretending to be someone or somewhere else.. especially when they are young).  So I think the groveling on TBP is totally understandable.  Think of someone you know who was not particularly successful with girls.  Then, after finally finding that first girlfriend, how resistant was that person to moving on from that girlfriend, even when she was obviously awful?  The people at TBP have finally found a place to "fit in," to be "accepted."  It's no wonder they are willing to put up with being treated like crap.  Honestly, I only feel pity for the average poster there. 

Now, the mods are a different story.  They are the fat, ugly girls that have finally found a boy so desperate to chase them, and they are determined to lord their newfound "power" over them.  Nope, sorry, but you're just a two prancing like a ten. It's the mods I reserve my contempt for...
With TBP I think it’s more like the difference between cult leadership and their cult followers/victims. At least there isn’t poison-laced Kool-Aid that the cult leaders can send through the internet.

Yes, but people need a reason to join and put up with a cult.  Healthy, happy people generally don't join cults.

As for the poison,  how many people have taken their own life due to bullying online and social media?   Healthy people don't,  but that's not the demographic we're talking about here...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on December 12, 2022, 12:05:54 PM
This is tangentially related to tbp. But does anyone else buy rpg's that tbp (and their ilk) hate?

I know I do. I mean I don't buy myfarog but like I did the original Oriental Adventures, The Horde campaign setting, etc.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on December 12, 2022, 12:21:09 PM
This is tangentially related to tbp. But does anyone else buy rpg's that tbp (and their ilk) hate?

I know I do. I mean I don't buy myfarog but like I did the original Oriental Adventures, The Horde campaign setting, etc.
I assume they hate Lamentations of the Flame Princess. I just bought a bunch of their stuff after reading the thread here on Games Workshop. Just trying to do my part to encourage the weird.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on December 12, 2022, 12:27:47 PM
This is tangentially related to tbp. But does anyone else buy rpg's that tbp (and their ilk) hate?

I know I do. I mean I don't buy myfarog but like I did the original Oriental Adventures, The Horde campaign setting, etc.

   I wouldn't really be able to keep up with what they hate.  It seems to change very quickly based on current year, some author writing something he shouldn't that get uncovered decades later, some creator talking silly to women when he is drinking, etc.    I am not even sure they are sure what to hate until they are presented with the "problematic" game/material (I love that word...it lets the reader/listener try to figure out what makes it a problem and their imagination can work in whatever problem the cultists have or even lots of different problems, great word smith work by woke people IMO) and told it is problematic.   Just asking what makes it problematic can be enough to get the boot....and oh my gosh asking about a specific "problem" in the "problematic" material.....pretty much makes you a fascist nazi apologist. 

   I tend to like what I like and so long as the author has enough good sense to not outright proclaim me as his enemy (this is also something else I do like about the woke/lefties; they are calling me their enemy...I doubt they understand that gives me the moral go ahead to call them the same, but at least they are saying it instead of pretending we can find common ground) I will give stuff that looks good to me a try.    There is stuff I like from our red and green list over on the game/company list here.   I do not always agree with those measures of what makes red, but I can say I tend to enjoy the green items (probably problematic over on TBP) quite often from that list.   I think it would be a list written in very light pencil as to what TBP likes as it can get erased so easily.  I just assume they hate everything and wait till someone missteps/misspeaks/or forgets to proclaim their loyalty loud enough to put it on their hate list.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: nielspeterdejong on December 12, 2022, 02:34:59 PM
For almost 50 years, RPGs have been a haven for the socially awkward, the marginalized, and those looking for a community to accept them.  And, with very few exceptions, RPGs have lived up to that.  As long as you wanted to game, the game was there for you.  So, I think it's fair to say that a sizable chunk of RPG players often are looking for a place to fit in (most people who are happy with their life don't spend most of it pretending to be someone or somewhere else.. especially when they are young).  So I think the groveling on TBP is totally understandable.  Think of someone you know who was not particularly successful with girls.  Then, after finally finding that first girlfriend, how resistant was that person to moving on from that girlfriend, even when she was obviously awful?  The people at TBP have finally found a place to "fit in," to be "accepted."  It's no wonder they are willing to put up with being treated like crap.  Honestly, I only feel pity for the average poster there. 

Now, the mods are a different story.  They are the fat, ugly girls that have finally found a boy so desperate to chase them, and they are determined to lord their newfound "power" over them.  Nope, sorry, but you're just a two prancing like a ten. It's the mods I reserve my contempt for...

Okay, that was quite the good summary. Also you were brutally honest!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on December 12, 2022, 05:28:29 PM
This is tangentially related to tbp. But does anyone else buy rpg's that tbp (and their ilk) hate?

I know I do. I mean I don't buy myfarog but like I did the original Oriental Adventures, The Horde campaign setting, etc.
I assume they hate Lamentations of the Flame Princess. I just bought a bunch of their stuff after reading the thread here on Games Workshop. Just trying to do my part to encourage the weird.

I've never been a big fan of weird fantasy, but on the other hand, I can highly recommend ACKS. It's not for everyone or every game, but it's a solid product, and I think discussion of it is actually outright banned over on TBP.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on December 12, 2022, 06:23:47 PM
I can highly recommend ACKS. It's not for everyone or every game, but it's a solid product, and I think discussion of it is actually outright banned over on TBP.

Obligatory full-disclosure note, the discussion is banned not for ideological reasons (like support of Trump or ICE is) but for legal reasons: there is still, I think, some outstanding legal issue between the site and Alexander Macris, the designer of ACKS.

ACKS itself as a game has no necessarily anti-Woke content in it that I know of, but as not actively supporting Wokeness is generally held by the Woke to amount to the moral equivalent, it would likely receive the same acrimony anyway.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on December 12, 2022, 07:10:38 PM
I can highly recommend ACKS. It's not for everyone or every game, but it's a solid product, and I think discussion of it is actually outright banned over on TBP.

Obligatory full-disclosure note, the discussion is banned not for ideological reasons (like support of Trump or ICE is) but for legal reasons: there is still, I think, some outstanding legal issue between the site and Alexander Macris, the designer of ACKS.

ACKS itself as a game has no necessarily anti-Woke content in it that I know of, but as not actively supporting Wokeness is generally held by the Woke to amount to the moral equivalent, it would likely receive the same acrimony anyway.

I seem to recall that there was some contention with the game and/or it's creator before the legal issues started, but maybe I'm misremembering. To be honest, it would be a very tiring job to keep tack of everything TBP hates and the exact reasons for each one.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on December 12, 2022, 07:49:49 PM
  I think he sued them, or threatened to do so.  I think they then said no one may speak of him for fear he would sue them (I guess their bosses felt the dude might have a case and wreck shop) so their solution to the guy talking about suing them for (libel I think, or some other legal land mine) talking ill of him was to never speak of him again and to delete anything about him and threaten bans.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 13, 2022, 08:03:26 AM
At one time, Macris was working with Milo Yiannopolous, and RPGnet staff (not just commenters, but staff in an official capacity) were smearing Macris as a white supremacist.

Macris not-so-politely asked them to stop (with the threat of legal action), which triggered the 'no discussion of ACKS or Macris ever' decision.

In light of former staffer Ettin being forced to make an apology to Zak S., it seems TBP's staff decided it'd be better to punt the whole issue rather than risk being dragged into court.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: nielspeterdejong on December 14, 2022, 05:34:41 AM
I can’t decide if TBP has a complete absence of a sense of humor, or if this guy is a deliberate target of the mods that they’ll interpret this guy’s post in the worst way possible. If the latter, the mods there are just some sick sadists for dragging this out, and not just going to a rule 0 ban.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/numanoid-receives-a-🚫-thirty-day-ban.887310/


for a comment made in 2019.. someone had to DIG for that

or maybe they just went to the posters history and saw he had made a similar joke. Still, to use something from 2 years ago is just petty.

A bit of a late reaction, but I was scrolling through the old messages as I came across your post.

This reminds me of what happened to me. I was removed from a Dungeons & Dragons discord group for a post that I made in 2019 on a different website, which was reddit. I have always been vocal anti-SJW, as I realized early what they were all about (just power and control, and pushing a self destructive ideology onto the west). So one of the mods must have recognized me, and then digged deeper at an issue that the mods of a subreddit (Unearthed Arcana) had with me; which was that I was inspired by the homebrew work of another creator and said creator took issue with me and made a complaint. However, shortly after he and I talked it out and after I made some more adjustments of my own we separated on friendly terms. This mod not only digged deep into me, he even went as far as to find an issue that was issued to the modderators of a subreddit (so different website entirely). This issue was from way back in 2017, so they really did spend all their time trying to get a person banned they were "programmed" to hate by their woke cult, instead of actually trying to improve the world by starting a soup kitchen or something, or at least having a job and using the money they make there to buy things for those in need.

Not sure how they got access to those reddit mod logs, but I'm guessing it is all connected, but they used that as an excuse to ban me because "I was making the subreddit unsave" or something along those lines. These people are fascists, while simultaneously accusing you of everything they are guilty of themselves. Just so that they can pretend to be "good people" while bullying anyone they can as a way to gain a sick and twisted sense of satisfaction. All while simultaneously flaunting their non-existing "superior morality".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: psiconauta_retro on December 14, 2022, 10:52:03 PM
Not sure how they got access to those reddit mod logs, but I'm guessing it is all connected, but they used that as an excuse to ban me because "I was making the subreddit unsave" or something along those lines. These people are fascists, while simultaneously accusing you of everything they are guilty of themselves. Just so that they can pretend to be "good people" while bullying anyone they can as a way to gain a sick and twisted sense of satisfaction. All while simultaneously flaunting their non-existing "superior morality".

Because you have defined it so eloquently and precisely, I want to repeat your words of wisdom:

"These people are fascists, while simultaneously accusing you of everything they are guilty of themselves. Just so that they can pretend to be "good people" while bullying anyone they can as a way to gain a sick and twisted sense of satisfaction. All while simultaneously flaunting their non-existing "superior morality"."

It annoys me very much that maybe we can do nothing about this but keep away from them, occasionally laugh at their insanity, and wait until they run out of members (which, for some reason, seems is not happening... why is this?)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on December 14, 2022, 11:01:51 PM
Not sure how they got access to those reddit mod logs, but I'm guessing it is all connected, but they used that as an excuse to ban me because "I was making the subreddit unsave" or something along those lines. These people are fascists, while simultaneously accusing you of everything they are guilty of themselves. Just so that they can pretend to be "good people" while bullying anyone they can as a way to gain a sick and twisted sense of satisfaction. All while simultaneously flaunting their non-existing "superior morality".

Because you have defined it so eloquently and precisely, I want to repeat your words of wisdom:

"These people are fascists, while simultaneously accusing you of everything they are guilty of themselves. Just so that they can pretend to be "good people" while bullying anyone they can as a way to gain a sick and twisted sense of satisfaction. All while simultaneously flaunting their non-existing "superior morality"."

It annoys me very much that maybe we can do nothing about this but keep away from them, occasionally laugh at their insanity, and wait until they run out of members (which, for some reason, seems is not happening... why is this?)
I doubt TBP (or the Woke in general) will run out of members in our lifetime any more than the Communists have run out of numbers. Perhaps (and hopefully) their numbers and influence will get reduced, but I doubt we’ll ever see a value of 0 for their members. Even if we did, that would likely mean that the people with those personality traits have just moved over to another ideological vector to be miserable people in. Lousy people will always and forever exist. It’s the level of cultural sway they currently have that’s frustrating.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: nielspeterdejong on December 15, 2022, 05:27:59 AM
Not sure how they got access to those reddit mod logs, but I'm guessing it is all connected, but they used that as an excuse to ban me because "I was making the subreddit unsave" or something along those lines. These people are fascists, while simultaneously accusing you of everything they are guilty of themselves. Just so that they can pretend to be "good people" while bullying anyone they can as a way to gain a sick and twisted sense of satisfaction. All while simultaneously flaunting their non-existing "superior morality".

Because you have defined it so eloquently and precisely, I want to repeat your words of wisdom:

"These people are fascists, while simultaneously accusing you of everything they are guilty of themselves. Just so that they can pretend to be "good people" while bullying anyone they can as a way to gain a sick and twisted sense of satisfaction. All while simultaneously flaunting their non-existing "superior morality"."

It annoys me very much that maybe we can do nothing about this but keep away from them, occasionally laugh at their insanity, and wait until they run out of members (which, for some reason, seems is not happening... why is this?)
I doubt TBP (or the Woke in general) will run out of members in our lifetime any more than the Communists have run out of numbers. Perhaps (and hopefully) their numbers and influence will get reduced, but I doubt we’ll ever see a value of 0 for their members. Even if we did, that would likely mean that the people with those personality traits have just moved over to another ideological vector to be miserable people in. Lousy people will always and forever exist. It’s the level of cultural sway they currently have that’s frustrating.

Pretty much yeah. Marxist ideologies, such as communis and socialism and progressivism etc. appeal to the narcissitic. People who feel they can do no wrong, and feel no flaws with their shitty behavior, can now pretend to be good people and feel good about themselves. It's a win win situation for them. They genuinly believe they have a righteous cause, yet simultaneously are fine with lying and manipulation for the sake of said cause, not having enough self reflection to realize that the information that formed their opinions might have been altered by similar people like them. They genuinly think they are too smart to be manipulated, and many people in high positions of power (many of which seem to hate people of european descend, hence why they are the only group allowed to be ridiculed, especially if you are a man) gladly take advantage of that.

We need to push back against woke ideology as much as we can, because they are using the vulnerable of society as a shield, so that when you criticize them they can pretend that you are a horrible person because they are "supporting the good causes". A most recent example of that is trans ideology. Basically, "trans people" have gender dysphoria, which has been known for decades, but now they are all lumped together in a single group in standard Marxist fashion.

This group is told they are "not happy" unless they become "trans" (scientology vibes here), aka embrace the whole trans movement and preferably take very expensive chemicals (which big pharmacy loves, which is why they promote the trans movement whenever they can) that chemically castrate them and messes with their hormone balance. Hence why many of them kill themselves (the whole "they kill themselves because you mis pronounce them!!!!" bs is debunked by the fact that if you as much as fart in the general direction of a trans person, your life and career are basically over in most cases. That, and the fact that most kill themselves many years after becoming trans, while they would kill themselves sooner if they were bullied). The whole "use pronouns" thing is also a way for them to have power over you, as it is compelled speech, and such people have a hard on for control and bullying others. Which is why I don't use pronouns out of principle, even if it sometimes causes me to get into conflict with a few friends of mine online sometimes.

Sadly, most people have been brainwashed to the point that one political viewpoint is seen as "normal", which is a naive and left leaning viewpoint, and which ultimately ends up being self destructive. I have a friend from the UK who responded to a meme I posted, where a UK news paper flatly stated: "Study finds that most people are incorrect about what is going on, such as about politics and immigration", which basically says that they are right and never wrong (even though they constantly are) and everyone else is just a "far right loon". My trans friend responded saying "lol, so true! There are so many stupid people here in the UK". After I explained the meme to her, and offered her a video about media manipulation, while simultaneously explaining that Brexit people are also just people with different opinions about what direction the country should take, she flatly stated: "No, thanks, I don't care about politics and try to distance myself from that". Honestly, it was a bit disturbing hearing that, as she didn't even realize that her stance (which was pushed into her mind by the media, by biased journalists) was in itself political.

Fortunately I also notice that more and more people are waking up, but there will always be those gullible, naive, and outright stupid enough to keep falling for Marxist dogma. because it provides easy answers, and grants them a target they can freely hate and cause attrocities against, while still feeling good about themselves. The first step though is getting rid of woke Teachers and woke HR. We do that, and the ones in power will be unable to groom impressionable children into being woke minions of the establishment.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 19, 2022, 12:00:15 PM
The latest bugaboo that TBP mods are whacking people with is 'onetrueway-ism', which I suppose is a synonym for 'there is only one proper way to play the game'.

This wouldn't annoy me so much if I didn't think they were misusing it. Case in point:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/lawrencejcohen-yahoo-com-infracted-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban.905558/

I grant that the mechanics bitching might be a little much, but I suspect the mods were more butthurt that the poster brought the hammer down on the backstory changes as well. Who the fuck is 'Fire Eyes'?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on December 19, 2022, 01:23:55 PM
The latest bugaboo that TBP mods are whacking people with is 'onetrueway-ism', which I suppose is a synonym for 'there is only one proper way to play the game'.

This wouldn't annoy me so much if I didn't think they were misusing it. Case in point:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/lawrencejcohen-yahoo-com-infracted-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban.905558/

I grant that the mechanics bitching might be a little much, but I suspect the mods were more butthurt that the poster brought the hammer down on the backstory changes as well. Who the fuck is 'Fire Eyes'?

Man, telling them what you object to in their view on that topic would have been so much more effective than "Banned!"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on December 19, 2022, 02:51:16 PM
The latest bugaboo that TBP mods are whacking people with is 'onetrueway-ism', which I suppose is a synonym for 'there is only one proper way to play the game'.

This wouldn't annoy me so much if I didn't think they were misusing it. Case in point:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/lawrencejcohen-yahoo-com-infracted-%F0%9F%9A%AB-one-day-ban.905558/

I grant that the mechanics bitching might be a little much, but I suspect the mods were more butthurt that the poster brought the hammer down on the backstory changes as well. Who the fuck is 'Fire Eyes'?
I suspect what they really didn’t like was the attack on the Adventurer’s League/organized play.

The “attack” was extremely mild, but the reason why TBP would be hypersensitive to such a criticism is in the offending post itself:
“…who only play STRICTLY BY WHAT'S IN THE RULEBOOK. The League leave NO room for the Dungeon Masters to make up any changes at all!”

The Woke cult would very much like all play to be as close to organized play as possible, and loathe the idea of a home table not bowing down to all the ideological conditions being placed in the books now. They’ve gone from “It’s your table, you can ignore it what you don’t like” to “We don’t want you playing our game unless you kneel before Wokeness.” With the latest D&D direction seeming to go in the direction of micro transactions, and using an online rule set as well, soon most won’t even be using their own books at the table. The Woke would say “Nobody is going to take away your old books”, but in the future they won’t have to as they train more and more customers to rely on online rule resources.

Anything that would point out issues with organized play is going to draw extra scrutiny from the TBP mods. The only exception to that would be criticism of organized play not being Woke enough.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on December 19, 2022, 05:33:51 PM
The Woke cult would very much like all play to be as close to organized play as possible, and loathe the idea of a home table not bowing down to all the ideological conditions being placed in the books now. They’ve gone from “It’s your table, you can ignore it what you don’t like” to “We don’t want you playing our game unless you kneel before Wokeness.”

Sadly that's nothing new.

I remember way back on TBP, long before the open rise of Woke, or even the term SJW, I once left an exchange with a poster flabbergasted by their assertion that they viewed WotC (or, I suppose, any company) publishing a book as essentially a (social)contractual obligation that GMs had to allow stuff from those books to be used. This was during the height of 3.x, where the game was being bogged down by a thousand extra races, classes, prestige classes, spells, etc. That the GM couldn't just disallow a player from playing a Dragon-Kitten Battle-God or whatever unless they could explain exactly why there was no possible way it would work in the campaign. That the GM was just obligated to try their best to fit whatever the player wanted from a WotC book that they had bought into the game. Because it was "official rules".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on December 19, 2022, 05:58:50 PM
The Woke cult would very much like all play to be as close to organized play as possible, and loathe the idea of a home table not bowing down to all the ideological conditions being placed in the books now. They’ve gone from “It’s your table, you can ignore it what you don’t like” to “We don’t want you playing our game unless you kneel before Wokeness.”

Sadly that's nothing new.

I remember way back on TBP, long before the open rise of Woke, or even the term SJW, I once left an exchange with a poster flabbergasted by their assertion that they viewed WotC (or, I suppose, any company) publishing a book as essentially a (social)contractual obligation that GMs had to allow stuff from those books to be used. This was during the height of 3.x, where the game was being bogged down by a thousand extra races, classes, prestige classes, spells, etc. That the GM couldn't just disallow a player from playing a Dragon-Kitten Battle-God or whatever unless they could explain exactly why there was no possible way it would work in the campaign. That the GM was just obligated to try their best to fit whatever the player wanted from a WotC book that they had bought into the game. Because it was "official rules".
Whiney-ass players demanding their snowflake characters be allowed in not new. At the time of your example were they doing it in service of an ideological goal? Was the culture of the mod staff insisting on this? Did WOTC have the leverage and tools to force this?

WOTC says they have a problem with not enough DMs for the players they have. Perhaps this is true. However, in typical corporate goodthink they probably see this as an opportunity. How much better could they direct more and more play of D&D to their next iteration if they provided a service by which players and DMs could more efficiently find each other? The lack of DMs gives WOTC a chance to solve that problem if they come up with the right matching tools between players and DMs, and can tie their play to the OneD&D platform.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on December 19, 2022, 06:06:49 PM
Whiney-ass players demanding their snowflake characters be allowed in not new. At the time of your example were they doing it in service of an ideological goal? Was the culture of the mod staff insisting on this? Did WOTC have the leverage and tools to force this?

I mean, WotC can't force it yet, try as they might. But yes, it was part of an ideology. It was part of the rise of... I dunno, the whole collectivist gaming/GM disempowerment trend at the time.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on December 19, 2022, 08:53:35 PM
Well they better get to work on their A.I. DM's, because the flesh and blood ones are going to drop out more and more.

GM'ing has always been a somewhat-masochistic pursuit (in that it requires tons of effort, often expense), but at least the players were largely appreciative. Now we're facing a perfect storm of new players treating GM's as half servant, half nemesis, and being very demanding and unappreciative; combined with fewer and fewer newbies wanting to do anything but play.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 20, 2022, 09:08:16 AM
I'm not disagreeing as to WotC's apparent motives (and TBP's support of such). I just find it hilarious they think they can make it stick.

Man, I slam modules and ideas together like a kid playing with his chest full of random action figures. And the players for my group seem to like it just fine. So WotC can just suck it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on December 20, 2022, 09:48:07 AM
Well they better get to work on their A.I. DM's, because the flesh and blood ones are going to drop out more and more.

GM'ing has always been a somewhat-masochistic pursuit (in that it requires tons of effort, often expense), but at least the players were largely appreciative. Now we're facing a perfect storm of new players treating GM's as half servant, half nemesis, and being very demanding and unappreciative; combined with fewer and fewer newbies wanting to do anything but play.
AI DMs are hit and miss. Text generators still have trouble with context, so after a while on the same thread they start rambling. No AI has so far been able to write, say, a novel without a human "editor" to keep it coherent. (This is why very few authors are concerned about AI like artists are. Altho teachers are extremely annoyed by the students handing in AI essays. Journalists are basically out of a job unless they start writing only press releases.) Also, how do you challenge the AI's decisions if you think they made a mistake? Right now the only option is rolling back, which could easily be exploited by unscrupulous players to create situations where they always "win". Like save scuming in a video game.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on December 20, 2022, 11:49:20 AM
I'm not disagreeing as to WotC's apparent motives (and TBP's support of such). I just find it hilarious they think they can make it stick.

Man, I slam modules and ideas together like a kid playing with his chest full of random action figures. And the players for my group seem to like it just fine. So WotC can just suck it.

Agreed.

Sometimes I think the key to enjoying all TTROPGs is just to not take the process so seriously. It's a game with friends. Stop overthinking it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 03, 2023, 10:32:07 AM
There's been a rash of permanent bans over the Troll Lord Games kerfuffle.  Among these, Victor Von Doom permabanned again.  I swear that guy gets permabanned every six months.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 10:38:48 AM
Among these, Victor Von Doom permabanned again.

"RRRIICCCHHHHAARRRDDDSSSS!"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: The Spaniard on January 03, 2023, 12:30:38 PM
There's been a rash of permanent bans over the Troll Lord Games kerfuffle.  Among these, Victor Von Doom permabanned again.  I swear that guy gets permabanned every six months.

What happened with TLG?

Edit:  never mind, I found it.  Typical expected comments to a very straightforward response by Stephen Chenault.  Of course, some former C&C players took the time to take pot shots at the company for editing issues; all petty and unnecessary comments but that's TBP for you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 03, 2023, 12:38:58 PM
Among these, Victor Von Doom permabanned again.

"RRRIICCCHHHHAARRRDDDSSSS!"

OK I snorted laughing at that!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 03, 2023, 12:48:26 PM
There's been a rash of permanent bans over the Troll Lord Games kerfuffle.  Among these, Victor Von Doom permabanned again.  I swear that guy gets permabanned every six months.

What happened with TLG?

I have not seen it at TBP but if it's what I think it is I encountered it a couple days ago. TLG said this:

"A quick note to remind everyone at TLG, that Troll Lord Games has a “games only” philosophy. We leave all the discussions in which society enjoys to engage, to others. They have no place here. This is a place to belly up to the table with our friends & enjoy games."

The leftists said, in a variety of ways, this (this was an actual quote from one I saw):

"we don't discuss politics" only benefits people not harmed by the politics of status quo. Games are art, art is political and taking an opposite position fosters spaces that disproportionately harm marginalized people."

Which I felt was a strong runner for dumbest, most simple and closed minded positions I'd seen in a while. The actually marginalized people I know are extremely happy to be in places where people are not talking about issues surrounding their marginalization when gaming. They're there to get away from that stuff even more than people who are not marginalized. My trans friend does not want to hear about trans politics at her gaming - she's there to game, and get away from hearing about it all the time. Even if you're agreeing with her, she is not fucking there to be focused on those issues because they are serious issues and people are not gaming to focus on their serious life issues.

It's gotta be a thing non-marginalized people say thinking they're "being a good ally," or people who are not really marginalized but who think they are because it's a developed identity like being  punk or goth or whatever where you use a chip on your shoulder to feign being a victim for attention because life is hard and you want to make a beacon of your life's hardships. Actually marginalized people, like people with a severe disability for instance, game TO GAME. Not to hear you talk about how much you agree with the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Also a side not on the "Games is art. Art is political." Let's leave aside the "Games is art" for a moment and talk about "Art is political." MF'er, if I go to the art museum with you and all you do is talk about the politics in relation to the art, I am going to ask you to get away from me. Some political discussion might be appropriate but art is not politics in itself, there is a great deal more to art than politics, and a lot of that is about every individual silently absorbing art in their own way without telling others what they should think about it. If gaming is art, then to follow that analogy everyone should be experiencing gaming through their own lens without you telling them what it should be.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: The Spaniard on January 03, 2023, 12:57:40 PM
There's been a rash of permanent bans over the Troll Lord Games kerfuffle.  Among these, Victor Von Doom permabanned again.  I swear that guy gets permabanned every six months.

What happened with TLG?

I have not seen it at TBP but if it's what I think it is I encountered it a couple days ago. TLG said "we don't do politics." The leftists said ""we don't discuss politics" only benefits people not harmed by the politics of status quo. Games are art, art is political and taking an opposite position fosters spaces that disproportionately harm marginalized people."

Which I felt was a strong runner for dumbest, most simple and closed minded positions I'd seen in a while. The actually marginalized people I know are extremely happy to be in places where people are not talking about issues surrounding their marginalization when gaming. They're there to get away from that stuff even more than people who are not marginalized. My trans friend does not want to hear about trans politics at her gaming - she's there to game, and get away from hearing about it all the time. Even if you're agreeing with her, she is not fucking there to be focused on those issues because they are serious issues and people are not gaming to focus on their serious life issues.

It's gotta be a thing non-marginalized people say thinking they're "being a good ally," or people who are not really marginalized but who think they are because it's a developed identity like being  punk or goth or whatever where you use a chip on your shoulder to feign being a victim for attention because life is hard and you want to make a beacon of your life's hardships. Actually marginalized people, like people with a severe disability for instance, game TO GAME. Not to hear you talk about how much you agree with the Americans with Disabilities Act.


Thanks.  And agreed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 01:20:32 PM
My trans friend does not want to hear about trans politics at her gaming - she's there to game, and get away from hearing about it all the time.

Doesn't she realize she could DIE at any moment if the game isn't political? She's been put in DANGER!

Step 1: No politics in gaming
Step 2:
Step3: Literal Trans-Genocide.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: gene_mingo on January 03, 2023, 09:22:48 PM
Art is political? Nope, that my friend is called propaganda.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on January 04, 2023, 02:55:09 PM
I have not seen it at TBP but if it's what I think it is I encountered it a couple days ago. TLG said this:

"A quick note to remind everyone at TLG, that Troll Lord Games has a “games only” philosophy. We leave all the discussions in which society enjoys to engage, to others. They have no place here. This is a place to belly up to the table with our friends & enjoy games."

The leftists said, in a variety of ways, this (this was an actual quote from one I saw):

"we don't discuss politics" only benefits people not harmed by the politics of status quo. Games are art, art is political and taking an opposite position fosters spaces that disproportionately harm marginalized people."

Which I felt was a strong runner for dumbest, most simple and closed minded positions I'd seen in a while. The actually marginalized people I know are extremely happy to be in places where people are not talking about issues surrounding their marginalization when gaming.

If you didn't see it at RPG.net, where is this a quote from, Mistwell? I'm not doubting, but I'd be curious to see the context. My understanding is that reactions to the original were colored by the context that Troll Lord Games were shutting down a writer who had posted a left-wing screed on his personal Twitter account. Since it was perceived that left-wing political speech was being shut down, some left-leaning gamers objected.

As a hypothetical, if RPGPundit were to change his tune and announce a "no politics" rule on any forums here on theRPGsite, then I'm pretty sure that right-wing gamers would perceive this as a terrible thing, and that he's betraying their cause. So they would chafe and have bad things to say about the "no politics" rule in that case.

And I think they'd have a point. A "no politics" rule does have political implications depending on the context.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 04, 2023, 05:34:55 PM
I have not seen it at TBP but if it's what I think it is I encountered it a couple days ago. TLG said this:

"A quick note to remind everyone at TLG, that Troll Lord Games has a “games only” philosophy. We leave all the discussions in which society enjoys to engage, to others. They have no place here. This is a place to belly up to the table with our friends & enjoy games."

The leftists said, in a variety of ways, this (this was an actual quote from one I saw):

"we don't discuss politics" only benefits people not harmed by the politics of status quo. Games are art, art is political and taking an opposite position fosters spaces that disproportionately harm marginalized people."

Which I felt was a strong runner for dumbest, most simple and closed minded positions I'd seen in a while. The actually marginalized people I know are extremely happy to be in places where people are not talking about issues surrounding their marginalization when gaming.

If you didn't see it at RPG.net, where is this a quote from, Mistwell?

Twitter.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 04, 2023, 06:36:10 PM
Facebook today too. Yet another "there is no way to be not political" stance.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on January 04, 2023, 09:19:23 PM
I kinda wish I was a clinical psychologist. Cause TBP would be a fascinating microcosm to do a paper on.

But I'm sure others have done similar stuff.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 04, 2023, 11:52:17 PM
As a hypothetical, if RPGPundit were to change his tune and announce a "no politics" rule on any forums here on theRPGsite, then I'm pretty sure that right-wing gamers would perceive this as a terrible thing, and that he's betraying their cause. So they would chafe and have bad things to say about the "no politics" rule in that case.

And I think they'd have a point. A "no politics" rule does have political implications depending on the context.

I dont' consider myself right-wing, whatever that even means anymore, but I'd be fine with it. A privately owned forum should be able to enforce on-topic posting.

That Pundit makes space for such conversations is a nice bonus, and useful since the culture war involves politics, and there are digressions that can take place on his section so they don't clutter up the gaming forums unnecesarily.

It's people who force their politics down your throat, at threat of banning for wrongthink, that rubs me the wrong way. If Pundit enforced a certain political POV here, I'd find the place distasteful, and consider leaving, just as I left RPG.net.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on January 05, 2023, 07:49:51 AM

As a hypothetical, if RPGPundit were to change his tune and announce a "no politics" rule on any forums here on theRPGsite, then I'm pretty sure that right-wing gamers would perceive this as a terrible thing, and that he's betraying their cause. So they would chafe and have bad things to say about the "no politics" rule in that case.


It wouldn't bother me at all.  I'm not advocating for it, but I certainly wouldn't consider it some sort of betrayal, as SJWs would.  Now, if he started censoring right-wing views on the grounds that they are "political" and promoting or even allowing left-wing views on the grounds that they aren't political but "human rights" issues, then I'd get pissed and leave.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 05, 2023, 07:59:50 AM
As a hypothetical, if RPGPundit were to change his tune and announce a "no politics" rule on any forums here on theRPGsite, then I'm pretty sure that right-wing gamers would perceive this as a terrible thing, and that he's betraying their cause. So they would chafe and have bad things to say about the "no politics" rule in that case.

And I think they'd have a point. A "no politics" rule does have political implications depending on the context.
And I'm pretty sure you're a fucking moron. A 'no politics' rule wouldn't bother me in the slightest. We marinate in the shit damn near continuously these days, why would I for one object?

You're even less perceptive than a phone psychic. Don't quit your day job.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abraxus on January 05, 2023, 10:17:11 AM
Mistwell reminds me of how TBP is treating this

Since TLG wrote something they don’t like equals attacking anyone simply for not being political and mainly for not liking the owner’s politics.

Goblinoid Games makes a very overtly political statement opposite of the one from TLG and of course because they approved by TBO and Mistwell are of course not political,

Fuck off Disingenuous SJW troll you ain’t fooling anyone.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Vile Traveller on January 05, 2023, 10:17:45 AM
When I started on RPG forums 20 years ago "No Politics" was the norm. The point wasn't to stifle free speech , it was to enable gamers to talk to each other without getting into fights.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 05, 2023, 10:34:00 AM
And I'm pretty sure you're a fucking moron. A 'no politics' rule wouldn't bother me in the slightest. We marinate in the shit damn near continuously these days, why would I for one object?

You're even less perceptive than a phone psychic. Don't quit your day job.

Comrade jhkim is one of the best trolls on here, honestly. He ALWAYS has a personal story directly connected to the current horseshit lefty cause-du-jour and pretends to play devil's advocate as some sort of bastion of centrist idealism. It's really quite admirable to be able to simultaneously spout such utter bullshit while pushing Marxism at break-neck speed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 05, 2023, 12:10:39 PM
And I'm pretty sure you're a fucking moron. A 'no politics' rule wouldn't bother me in the slightest. We marinate in the shit damn near continuously these days, why would I for one object?

You're even less perceptive than a phone psychic. Don't quit your day job.

Comrade jhkim is one of the best trolls on here, honestly. He ALWAYS has a personal story directly connected to the current horseshit lefty cause-du-jour and pretends to play devil's advocate as some sort of bastion of centrist idealism. It's really quite admirable to be able to simultaneously spout such utter bullshit while pushing Marxism at break-neck speed.
Yeah, I know. I just like to insult him. His daddy should've stayed in North Korea.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on January 05, 2023, 01:11:58 PM
Fair enough. I apologize for broadly generalizing there - to everyone, and in particular, Ratman_tf, I, Ghostmaker, Brad, and Abraxus.

To be clear, I'd also be fine with a "no politics" rule like rpgpub.com has. I've enjoyed some political discussion here on Pundit's forum, but I dislike how politics tends to take over a lot of discussion in the RPG forum.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on January 05, 2023, 03:05:06 PM
Let's not be disingenuous, jhkim's right that the forum has a conservative leaning and lots of posters would be unhappy if suddenly they were getting shut down for stating conservative positions.  And I don't think there's anything wrong with that; I'm not going to go on political tirades in an RPG forum but I do appreciate being able to state my positions now and then without people running in to call me a fascist.  But it wouldn't end my world if Pundit one day put a blanket zero politics restriction on the place.

What nettles me about rpg.net's position is the constantly moving goalposts where saying that all police are genociders who should be imprisoned is a protected non-political position, but not being okay with little Billy being bused to a strip club by his school for a middle-aged guy to dance around in lingerie is literally murdering trans BIPOCs.  Either all political speech should be open for discussion, or none of it should be, not this double-standard.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 05, 2023, 05:50:35 PM
Let's not be disingenuous, jhkim's right that the forum has a conservative leaning

I disagree. It might be interesting to do a poll/state yer positions! thread and actually find out.
I think there's a lot of pushback on this forum against the excesses of the left, (IMO deservedly so) and some posters with conservative opinions, and a few posters who seem to go bizonkers in the anti-left direction. (KILL DA MARXISTS! WAAAAGHHH!) and a handful of Poe's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law) I'm not sure about.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 05, 2023, 05:56:38 PM
I disagree. It might be interesting to do a poll/state yer positions! thread and actually find out.
I think there's a lot of pushback on this forum against the excesses of the left, (IMO deservedly so) and some posters with conservative opinions, and a few posters who seem to go bizonkers in the anti-left direction. (KILL DA MARXISTS! WAAAAGHHH!) and a handful of Poe's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law) I'm not sure about.

This forum tends to focus more on logic and facts than others, and doesn't squash dissenting opinion, so of course it seems like it "leans conservative." It's like calling Fox News conservative because not every single person on the channel is a raging Marxist.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 05, 2023, 06:59:25 PM
Mistwell reminds me of how TBP is treating this

Since TLG wrote something they don’t like equals attacking anyone simply for not being political and mainly for not liking the owner’s politics.

Goblinoid Games makes a very overtly political statement opposite of the one from TLG and of course because they approved by TBO and Mistwell are of course not political,

Fuck off Disingenuous SJW troll you ain’t fooling anyone.

WTF are you off about? I am on your side on this topic and you're claiming I am saying the opposite? Go fuck yourself buddy. Also, you have bad reading comprehension issues.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 05, 2023, 07:05:29 PM
Jesus, guys. I mean they're right, everything is political. I know I'm going to catch flak over this, but a fact is a fact.

This glass of water I'm currently drinking? Abortion rights.

The chair I sit in? Voter I.D.

I can't believe, in this day and age, that I need to type such a simple fact in to my Campaign Financing keyboard.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on January 05, 2023, 08:37:17 PM
I disagree. It might be interesting to do a poll/state yer positions! thread and actually find out.
I think there's a lot of pushback on this forum against the excesses of the left, (IMO deservedly so) and some posters with conservative opinions, and a few posters who seem to go bizonkers in the anti-left direction. (KILL DA MARXISTS! WAAAAGHHH!) and a handful of Poe's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law) I'm not sure about.

This forum tends to focus more on logic and facts than others, and doesn't squash dissenting opinion, so of course it seems like it "leans conservative." It's like calling Fox News conservative because not every single person on the channel is a raging Marxist.

Pretty much anybody can post here. Also, generally speaking the only way to get banned  for politics is to be a literal Nazi or off-topic. So if anything one could argue we’re more welcoming (though they will get told off and face actual argument here) to the far left than the far right (or at least racists, which might perhaps be argued orthogonal moreso than the actual far right). At least as regards forum rules, the left really has no right to complain. Also, the mods usually allow pretty much any topic so long as it is interesting, and I’ve seen plenty of threads, arguments and posters from across the aisle.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on January 05, 2023, 10:27:48 PM
Let's not be disingenuous, jhkim's right that the forum has a conservative leaning

I disagree. It might be interesting to do a poll/state yer positions! thread and actually find out.
I think there's a lot of pushback on this forum against the excesses of the left, (IMO deservedly so) and some posters with conservative opinions, and a few posters who seem to go bizonkers in the anti-left direction. (KILL DA MARXISTS! WAAAAGHHH!) and a handful of Poe's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law) I'm not sure about.

Well, yes and no. It's actually my opinion that this forum does have a conservative-ish leaning, even adjusted for the left's abrupt sprint into the far left. I think it's more accurate to say that you have to be disheartened and disenfranchised with larger sites and forums to keep digging through the internet to find a place like this, and in this day and age of carefully crafted Twitter and Meta/ FB echo-chambers, if you are disheartened and disenfranchised, you are probably also conservative.

The reason is relatively straightforward if you start thinking in terms of behavior conditioning. If you are center or center-left, RPG.Net and Twitter will attempt to push you into becoming an activist drone because you are close enough to change beliefs with a fair mix of both positive and negative reinforcement, but conservatives are so far off-target and require so much negative reinforcement that not only are they largely immune to negative reinforcement, but they also create a bandwagon effect where everyone around them starts to tune out the negative reinforcement. Conservatives break the operant conditioning chamber much more frequently than leftists do, therefore they have to go. Does this explain a few things about Twitter and RPG.Net? Methinks it does.

I am not saying that this is an intentional supervillain plan on any particular person's part. I think it's more accurate to say this is natural human behavior which Silicon Valley--which has a strong left lean--intentionally exacerbates. The Twitter Files show that quite a few of them in positions of influence are quite intentional about this.

As to politics...Our culture worships politics to the point of it being a form of idolatry. Let's discuss this in terms of victory conditions; SJWs absolutely believe they can achieve victory through politics--a victory to nowhere--and are willing to do practically anything to achieve said victory. This attitude is a key reason American politics has turned so toxic. Conversely, I view politics as a side-game which people insist on playing; the real discussions are philosophical and religious. It isn't just a matter of knowing which religion or philosophy is right; it's actually more important to know why the rest of them are wrong. And inevitably, this is an unpopular discussion.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on January 06, 2023, 12:37:49 AM
As a hypothetical, if RPGPundit were to change his tune and announce a "no politics" rule on any forums here on theRPGsite, then I'm pretty sure that right-wing gamers would perceive this as a terrible thing, and that he's betraying their cause. So they would chafe and have bad things to say about the "no politics" rule in that case.

I'd be a little disappointed I'd lost someplace I could gripe about left-wing Wokery without getting banned for it, but "betraying the cause"? No. The entire point of belief that not all spaces need to be political is the willingness to allow some spaces to explicitly choose not to be.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 06, 2023, 08:01:32 AM
As a hypothetical, if RPGPundit were to change his tune and announce a "no politics" rule on any forums here on theRPGsite, then I'm pretty sure that right-wing gamers would perceive this as a terrible thing, and that he's betraying their cause. So they would chafe and have bad things to say about the "no politics" rule in that case.

I'd be a little disappointed I'd lost someplace I could gripe about left-wing Wokery without getting banned for it, but "betraying the cause"? No. The entire point of belief that not all spaces need to be political is the willingness to allow some spaces to explicitly choose not to be.

Philosophically it's kind of murky. What does no politics mean? Probably something slightly different to every individual.

I mean, if not being 'political' means WotC can have Joe Biden appear as the Wizard-King of a fantasy city, and the adventures are about abortion rights and 'bloody flux anti-vaxers,' and we can't rail against it for fear of being political, then that's just being handcuffed.

When one side makes everything in your hobby about politics, how can you even discuss the hobby without being political? The Marxists have made everything a mess.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Vile Traveller on January 06, 2023, 08:19:07 AM
"No Politics" means something very different now than it did 20 years ago. A better rule might be "no real-world drama". Just talk about games, and politics in games.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 06, 2023, 08:21:39 AM
I want to illustrate a problem here.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/olof-j%C3%B6nsson-infracted-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.906161/

This is a long running issue these days in particular. A person can be a piece of shit, but making up stuff just makes you look like a fucking retard. That's what Olof is arguing against, but because any kind of principled stance is doublepluswrongthink, he gets threadbanned.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on January 06, 2023, 09:25:04 AM
I mean, if not being 'political' means WotC can have Joe Biden appear as the Wizard-King of a fantasy city, and the adventures are about abortion rights and 'bloody flux anti-vaxers,' and we can't rail against it for fear of being political, then that's just being handcuffed.

Well, that's a distinction I have talked about before which classical liberalism still upholds and which Wokism, tellingly, doesn't: you can in principle object to a product being political without it mattering whose politics it's advocating. A module about "God-Emperor Trumpius" defending the Empire from foreign invaders and baby-sacrificing cults could be equally unenjoyable for its blatancy regardless of whether you agreed with its position.

TBP's real problem, as always (I think), is its blatant double standard based on its operators' bad faith in the motives of any disagreement.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on January 06, 2023, 11:20:30 AM
As a hypothetical, if RPGPundit were to change his tune and announce a "no politics" rule on any forums here on theRPGsite, then I'm pretty sure that right-wing gamers would perceive this as a terrible thing, and that he's betraying their cause. So they would chafe and have bad things to say about the "no politics" rule in that case.

I'd be a little disappointed I'd lost someplace I could gripe about left-wing Wokery without getting banned for it, but "betraying the cause"? No. The entire point of belief that not all spaces need to be political is the willingness to allow some spaces to explicitly choose not to be.

Again, my apologies. My statements was overly broad and/or overstated.

I think there is an underlying tendency for everyone, but it's best discussed differently.

As I stated, I agree that a rule of "no politics" would be fine here.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on January 06, 2023, 12:38:50 PM
I want to illustrate a problem here.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/olof-j%C3%B6nsson-infracted-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.906161/

This is a long running issue these days in particular. A person can be a piece of shit, but making up stuff just makes you look like a fucking retard. That's what Olof is arguing against, but because any kind of principled stance is doublepluswrongthink, he gets threadbanned.
Yowza! There are more "problematics" in that thread than there are "clenches" in a Stephen R. Donaldson novel. I see a new party-game in the making.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 06, 2023, 01:06:30 PM
I want to illustrate a problem here.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/olof-j%C3%B6nsson-infracted-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-and-threadban.906161/

This is a long running issue these days in particular. A person can be a piece of shit, but making up stuff just makes you look like a fucking retard. That's what Olof is arguing against, but because any kind of principled stance is doublepluswrongthink, he gets threadbanned.
Yowza! There are more "problematics" in that thread than there are "clenches" in a Stephen R. Donaldson novel. I see a new party-game in the making.

Yeah.

The Communist Party.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on January 06, 2023, 05:58:00 PM
Again, my apologies. My statements was overly broad and/or overstated.

I think there is an underlying tendency for everyone, but it's best discussed differently.

As I stated, I agree that a rule of "no politics" would be fine here.

No worries; like you, I think it's always worth asking what would happen if the shoe was on the other foot. (One mark of the Woke -- though they aren't the only ones -- is that they only ever care about this question when they think the answer is to their advantage.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on January 08, 2023, 11:52:37 AM
RPGNet has locked all threads on the OGL 1.1 in preparation for a new, single, "A-Game" thread to be launched in the next few days.

I wonder what the range of Approved Opinions will be?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on January 08, 2023, 12:24:38 PM
RPGNet has locked all threads on the OGL 1.1 in preparation for a new, single, "A-Game" thread to be launched in the next few days.

I wonder what the range of Approved Opinions will be?
I guess it depends on where WotC currently stands in the ever-shifting sands of social justice. Are they the colonial white supremacists that must be #Resisted or are they the brave and noble DEI warriors fighting for leftwing causes?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 08, 2023, 04:14:44 PM
RPGNet has locked all threads on the OGL 1.1 in preparation for a new, single, "A-Game" thread to be launched in the next few days.

I wonder what the range of Approved Opinions will be?
I guess it depends on where WotC currently stands in the ever-shifting sands of social justice. Are they the colonial white supremacists that must be #Resisted or are they the brave and noble DEI warriors fighting for leftwing causes?

You know by now you can't be brave and noble enough in fighting for leftwing causes to protect yourself from The Big Purple piling on you the moment they perceive they can gain something from it and signal they are superior without actually putting any meaningful skin in the game. I think there is only one option here, regardless of how WOTC is viewed on other topics - attack.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on January 08, 2023, 04:36:22 PM
RPGNet has locked all threads on the OGL 1.1 in preparation for a new, single, "A-Game" thread to be launched in the next few days.

I wonder what the range of Approved Opinions will be?
I guess it depends on where WotC currently stands in the ever-shifting sands of social justice. Are they the colonial white supremacists that must be #Resisted or are they the brave and noble DEI warriors fighting for leftwing causes?

You know by now you can't be brave and noble enough in fighting for leftwing causes to protect yourself from The Big Purple piling on you the moment they perceive they can gain something from it and signal they are superior without actually putting any meaningful skin in the game. I think there is only one option here, regardless of how WOTC is viewed on other topics - attack.
True. As we've seen time and time again, no one is ever good enough to a Leftist. Everyone everywhere, no matter how virtuous, can always "do better." There is literally nothing anyone can do to gain the Left's unqualified approval. They always demand more.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on January 08, 2023, 05:51:32 PM
RPGNet has locked all threads on the OGL 1.1 in preparation for a new, single, "A-Game" thread to be launched in the next few days.

I wonder what the range of Approved Opinions will be?
I guess it depends on where WotC currently stands in the ever-shifting sands of social justice. Are they the colonial white supremacists that must be #Resisted or are they the brave and noble DEI warriors fighting for leftwing causes?

By all indications, WotC has gone beyond leftist and is rapidly becoming a full blown fascist state.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 08, 2023, 07:16:31 PM
RPGNet has locked all threads on the OGL 1.1 in preparation for a new, single, "A-Game" thread to be launched in the next few days.

I wonder what the range of Approved Opinions will be?

*snort*

I look forward to seeing the mods trip over each other while they hash out what the approved opinion is.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 08, 2023, 09:40:37 PM
I expect the approved opinion there will be the nearly universal opinion here. Nothing unites RPG fans like the owner of D&D being an asshole to everyone.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on January 08, 2023, 09:46:15 PM
I expect the approved opinion there will be the nearly universal opinion here. Nothing unites RPG fans like the owner of D&D being an asshole to everyone.

Assuming they’re not compromised by WotC or desperate to remain in their good graces.  :) I remember a sudden tonal shift regarding 5E just after its release.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 08, 2023, 09:52:46 PM
Every single time WotC capitulate, and do what they're told they need to so they're not monsters; wokesters (often the ones that told them to do the thing) instantly VICIOUSLY attack them for not doing enough, or the thing now being problematic.

I fully expect the new edition to be woke to high-heaven, and alienate a lot of their old fanbase. It will also be condemned as the work of colonialist nazis, by offense grifters.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on January 08, 2023, 10:00:21 PM
Thread’s open (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread.906270/), and it looks like Mistwell was right.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 08, 2023, 11:46:14 PM
Thread’s open (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread.906270/), and it looks like Mistwell was right.

They're really angry, but they won't sign a petition with over 4k signatures, because someone told them they should hate the guy who created the petition, and they don't want to be 'associated with him.' Because in crazy wokeworld, signing his petition means you agree with his politics 100% and should be cancelled.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on January 09, 2023, 02:12:43 AM
Thread’s open (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread.906270/), and it looks like Mistwell was right.

They're really angry, but they won't sign a petition with over 4k signatures, because someone told them they should hate the guy who created the petition, and they don't want to be 'associated with him.'

From what I read, more posters are encouraging signing an open letter to WotC entitled #opendnd

https://www.opendnd.games/#open-letter
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 09, 2023, 06:50:42 AM
Thread’s open (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread.906270/), and it looks like Mistwell was right.

They're really angry, but they won't sign a petition with over 4k signatures, because someone told them they should hate the guy who created the petition, and they don't want to be 'associated with him.'

From what I read, more posters are encouraging signing an open letter to WotC entitled #opendnd

https://www.opendnd.games/#open-letter

Yes, but it was brought up as the ideologically pure alternative.

As highlighted by the fact someone suggested starting a NEW petition, back to zero signatures, just to avoid being tangentially being connected to the wrong-thinker.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 09, 2023, 11:08:28 AM

Yes, but it was brought up as the ideologically pure alternative.

As highlighted by the fact someone suggested starting a NEW petition, back to zero signatures, just to avoid being tangentially being connected to the wrong-thinker.

You drink water? Hitler drank water! You're worse than Hitler!!!!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 09, 2023, 11:38:58 AM

Yes, but it was brought up as the ideologically pure alternative.

As highlighted by the fact someone suggested starting a NEW petition, back to zero signatures, just to avoid being tangentially being connected to the wrong-thinker.

You drink water? Hitler drank water! You're worse than Hitler!!!!


If only 4chan could pull that one off, the world would be back to normal in 4 days.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/fwi2qY9VmH33uukTXr/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on January 09, 2023, 12:07:28 PM

Yes, but it was brought up as the ideologically pure alternative.

As highlighted by the fact someone suggested starting a NEW petition, back to zero signatures, just to avoid being tangentially being connected to the wrong-thinker.

You drink water? Hitler drank water! You're worse than Hitler!!!!

I mean we joke, but you may be on to something here. The contagion heuristic is big on the side of the woke. If it’s deemed associated with a “problematic” person or opinion then it gets thrown out and cancelled regardless of its own merits.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on January 09, 2023, 01:10:48 PM
The contagion heuristic is big on the side of the woke. If it’s deemed associated with a “problematic” person or opinion then it gets thrown out and cancelled regardless of its own merits.

That's because one of the critical principles of Woke thought is, To tolerate is ipso facto to endorse.

Exemplary maxim for this principle: "Ten people at a table with one Nazi equals eleven Nazis at a table."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 09, 2023, 01:14:59 PM

Yes, but it was brought up as the ideologically pure alternative.

As highlighted by the fact someone suggested starting a NEW petition, back to zero signatures, just to avoid being tangentially being connected to the wrong-thinker.

You drink water? Hitler drank water! You're worse than Hitler!!!!

I mean we joke, but you may be on to something here. The contagion heuristic is big on the side of the woke. If it’s deemed associated with a “problematic” person or opinion then it gets thrown out and cancelled regardless of its own merits.

Oh it's no theoretical. 4chan already got the Left to declare the OK hand gesture, and the Betsy Ross flag to be racist, and they've never been de-classified. That's not even counting trolling the idiots that milk and such are racist.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 09, 2023, 02:34:20 PM
Thread’s open (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread.906270/), and it looks like Mistwell was right.

They're really angry, but they won't sign a petition with over 4k signatures, because someone told them they should hate the guy who created the petition, and they don't want to be 'associated with him.'

From what I read, more posters are encouraging signing an open letter to WotC entitled #opendnd

https://www.opendnd.games/#open-letter
LOL, his name's on that one too. Poor children, they hate to admit he's part of the hobby.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 09, 2023, 05:16:50 PM

Yes, but it was brought up as the ideologically pure alternative.

As highlighted by the fact someone suggested starting a NEW petition, back to zero signatures, just to avoid being tangentially being connected to the wrong-thinker.

You drink water? Hitler drank water! You're worse than Hitler!!!!

I mean we joke, but you may be on to something here. The contagion heuristic is big on the side of the woke. If it’s deemed associated with a “problematic” person or opinion then it gets thrown out and cancelled regardless of its own merits.

Hundreds of GOOD articles from mainstream press are dismissed here every year without even daring to read them because they are associated with a "problematic" source like the LA Times or Washington Post or New York Times, regardless of the merits of the article and even author. So I wouldn't say this is just about "woke" people.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 09, 2023, 05:33:40 PM
Hundreds of GOOD articles from mainstream press are dismissed here every year without even daring to read them because they are associated with a "problematic" source like the LA Times or Washington Post or New York Times, regardless of the merits of the article and even author. So I wouldn't say this is just about "woke" people.

That mainstream press has been demonstrably proven to be the biggest source of misinformation over the past few years, so your "whataboutism" bullshit can kindly fuck off.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on January 09, 2023, 05:48:35 PM
I mean if the sources and methods are legit and the reasoning and analysis are sound (not a given that all 4 follow, in which case only the legit parts stand), I would agree that whatever arguments being made by an article stand regardless of intent. Credible and legit information can be used to support the interests of a biased opinion, company, or media outlet just as much so as misinformation. So yeah, Mistwell, I wouldn’t say it’d make sense to outright ignore it if it checks out on a rational and methodological level. Doesn’t mean I enjoy reading articles from folks who don’t at all share my opinions and values, but I do at least try to draw from a broader pool of sources. In that sense, sure, many folks are “guilty” like me across the political spectrum with respect to preferring similar worldview to their sources. Both cancel culture and the very human contagion heuristic aren’t just the left, although the former is I would argue most often the left. You make a decent point though about it not just being the woke.

But I would say that cancel culture and woke cancel culture especially tends to lean this way. So in that sense I think my point about it being firmly tied to woke ideology stands. When folks say “Silence is violence.” or that whole nazi table contagion thing, it’s pretty obvious to me that not only are they advocating cancel culture as a core principle of their ideology, they seem to be saying that if you’re not with them in canceling then you’re against them and need to be canceled. I think it’s kinda scary, to be honest, the way that our society seems to be going on that. How everything not explicitly preapproved and proactively “progressive” in its intolerance becomes seen as contaminated.



Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 09, 2023, 05:57:52 PM
Hundreds of GOOD articles from mainstream press are dismissed here every year without even daring to read them because they are associated with a "problematic" source like the LA Times or Washington Post or New York Times, regardless of the merits of the article and even author. So I wouldn't say this is just about "woke" people.

That mainstream press has been demonstrably proven to be the biggest source of misinformation over the past few years, so your "whataboutism" bullshit can kindly fuck off.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RQ4eaMwPi4U/Us6HU-SP1NI/AAAAAAAAP2Q/-sdI9Au7jno/w1200-h630-p-nu/fortune-clapping.gif)

One of your neighbours just came through the wall waving a chainsaw, saying he's going to wear your skin; and Mistwell wants to talk about the neighbour on the other side and his overly loud music.

I'm worried about the clear and present danger to society, not potential worries far down the road.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 09, 2023, 06:38:03 PM
Hundreds of GOOD articles from mainstream press are dismissed here every year without even daring to read them because they are associated with a "problematic" source like the LA Times or Washington Post or New York Times, regardless of the merits of the article and even author. So I wouldn't say this is just about "woke" people.

That mainstream press has been demonstrably proven to be the biggest source of misinformation over the past few years, so your "whataboutism" bullshit can kindly fuck off.

You didn't grapple with that well at all.

The person in question has been "demonstrably proven" to be problematic by plenty of standards over the past few years. You're claiming SOME sources, SOMETIMES, are a source of misinformation but not the author of a particular article. And yet the right will often dismiss entire newspapers without checking even if the author of that article in question has never been a problem or if the article is of a good quality. That's far more of a general dismissal than dismissing a single individual.

And it's not a whataboutism at all. The claim was this kind of behavior was left-wing only. Which opens the door to asking if this kind of behavior can be found outside the left. And it can. I am not saying you shouldn't trust the individual in question but should trust mainstream press (that would be a whataboutism maybe) I am saying the claim this behavior is just a thing of the left is false.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 09, 2023, 06:40:49 PM
Hundreds of GOOD articles from mainstream press are dismissed here every year without even daring to read them because they are associated with a "problematic" source like the LA Times or Washington Post or New York Times, regardless of the merits of the article and even author. So I wouldn't say this is just about "woke" people.

That mainstream press has been demonstrably proven to be the biggest source of misinformation over the past few years, so your "whataboutism" bullshit can kindly fuck off.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RQ4eaMwPi4U/Us6HU-SP1NI/AAAAAAAAP2Q/-sdI9Au7jno/w1200-h630-p-nu/fortune-clapping.gif)

One of your neighbours just came through the wall waving a chainsaw, saying he's going to wear your skin; and Mistwell wants to talk about the neighbour on the other side and his overly loud music.

I'm worried about the clear and present danger to society, not potential worries far down the road.

Dismissing all mainstream press information because some mainstream press articles contain misinformation is a neighbor coming through your wall waving a chainsaw. It's the basis for thousands of conspiracy theories and dismissal of lots of real threats in our country (see for example Kiero here). It's way WAY more concerning that the fucking SRD letter (which I support but will likely be ignored).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 09, 2023, 06:43:48 PM
problematic

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.JQEy4rJ6VR9sKBxFtKnbvQAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=bae35c2d2ca90ccd729bebb37cf992415a4c0faa84b8a68d0c9e0cd2a2cead9b&ipo=images)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 09, 2023, 07:37:24 PM
Dismissing all mainstream press information because some mainstream press articles contain misinformation is a neighbor coming through your wall waving a chainsaw. It's the basis for thousands of conspiracy theories and dismissal of lots of real threats in our country (see for example Kiero here). It's way WAY more concerning that the fucking SRD letter (which I support but will likely be ignored).

LOL @ some...how about all? There isn't anything that's actually news anymore, it's all propaganda and commentary disguised as information. "No, seriously guys, I know they lied 500 times already, but THIS TIME they're telling the truth!"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 09, 2023, 11:25:41 PM

Yes, but it was brought up as the ideologically pure alternative.

As highlighted by the fact someone suggested starting a NEW petition, back to zero signatures, just to avoid being tangentially being connected to the wrong-thinker.

You drink water? Hitler drank water! You're worse than Hitler!!!!

I mean we joke, but you may be on to something here. The contagion heuristic is big on the side of the woke. If it’s deemed associated with a “problematic” person or opinion then it gets thrown out and cancelled regardless of its own merits.

Hundreds of GOOD articles from mainstream press are dismissed here every year without even daring to read them because they are associated with a "problematic" source like the LA Times or Washington Post or New York Times, regardless of the merits of the article and even author. So I wouldn't say this is just about "woke" people.

I don't dismiss the mainstream press because of their identity or associations. I dismiss them because they are garbage at their jobs.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 10, 2023, 12:37:43 PM
problematic

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.JQEy4rJ6VR9sKBxFtKnbvQAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=bae35c2d2ca90ccd729bebb37cf992415a4c0faa84b8a68d0c9e0cd2a2cead9b&ipo=images)

Some reason you eliminated the quotes I had around that word to suggest the same thing you're suggesting right now?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 10, 2023, 12:43:19 PM
Dismissing all mainstream press information because some mainstream press articles contain misinformation is a neighbor coming through your wall waving a chainsaw. It's the basis for thousands of conspiracy theories and dismissal of lots of real threats in our country (see for example Kiero here). It's way WAY more concerning that the fucking SRD letter (which I support but will likely be ignored).

LOL @ some...how about all? There isn't anything that's actually news anymore, it's all propaganda and commentary disguised as information. "No, seriously guys, I know they lied 500 times already, but THIS TIME they're telling the truth!"

And that's what I am referring to. That's completely nonsense. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Tons of good reporters still work for mainstream press. A lot of local issues are covered, which are usually more important to your families life than the national news. You've let partisanship get into your head if you think nothing can come from mainstream press which is useful for your life.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on January 10, 2023, 07:17:50 PM
Dismissing all mainstream press information because some mainstream press articles contain misinformation is a neighbor coming through your wall waving a chainsaw. It's the basis for thousands of conspiracy theories and dismissal of lots of real threats in our country (see for example Kiero here). It's way WAY more concerning that the fucking SRD letter (which I support but will likely be ignored).

LOL @ some...how about all? There isn't anything that's actually news anymore, it's all propaganda and commentary disguised as information. "No, seriously guys, I know they lied 500 times already, but THIS TIME they're telling the truth!"

And that's what I am referring to. That's completely nonsense. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Tons of good reporters still work for mainstream press. A lot of local issues are covered, which are usually more important to your families life than the national news. You've let partisanship get into your head if you think nothing can come from mainstream press which is useful for your life.

Except that trying to get to the truth of a news story from the likes of CNN or MSNBC is too much like being a Russian during the 80s and reading between the lines printed in Pravda.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 10, 2023, 07:59:17 PM
And that's what I am referring to. That's completely nonsense. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Tons of good reporters still work for mainstream press. A lot of local issues are covered, which are usually more important to your families life than the national news. You've let partisanship get into your head if you think nothing can come from mainstream press which is useful for your life.

What does partisanship have to do with not wasting my time with literal trash? This "I'm in the middle! If you disagree you're an extremist!" schtick is played out. Traditional media is PROPAGANDA, you immense fucktard. I don't care if there's a good recipe for cornbread hidden somewhere in the local newspaper, the fact I'd have to wade through page after page of misinformation and outright lies makes it not worth the effort.

I'm sure Marxist overlords will be thrilled you're still defending this nonsense, but the gaslighting isn't going to work on me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 11, 2023, 12:02:24 AM
And that's what I am referring to. That's completely nonsense. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Tons of good reporters still work for mainstream press. A lot of local issues are covered, which are usually more important to your families life than the national news. You've let partisanship get into your head if you think nothing can come from mainstream press which is useful for your life.

What does partisanship have to do with not wasting my time with literal trash? This "I'm in the middle! If you disagree you're an extremist!" schtick is played out. Traditional media is PROPAGANDA, you immense fucktard. I don't care if there's a good recipe for cornbread hidden somewhere in the local newspaper, the fact I'd have to wade through page after page of misinformation and outright lies makes it not worth the effort.

I'm sure Marxist overlords will be thrilled you're still defending this nonsense, but the gaslighting isn't going to work on me.

Greetings!

So true, Brad! The MSM is almost entirely Leftist, woke propaganda. It's garbage. Like a broken clock, the MSM is right twice a day. *Laughing* I remember reading some article recently by the New York Times that essentially said the whole media shilling for Ukraine, doctoring documents and reports, and painting some kind of rosy, triumphant picture of the war in Ukraine was all bullshit. The article went on to say that Russia is much more formidable than the MSM media allows, and that there was likely an enormous amount of fighting in the war remaining before any kind of conclusion, and such a conclusion would likely be in Russia's favour.

I don't know how the author got through the New York Times editorial censors, but the article was swimming upstream certainly, compared to the flood of articles going the other way by the New York Times in particular, and the MSM in general. As I said though, like a broken clock.

I mostly ignore any MSM source or outlet. They are worthless, depraved, Marxist propaganda. I stick to a handful of conservative, independent media for more objective and truthful news articles, commentary, and analysis.

On so many topics--not just current events or news--but culture, society, and more, I can hardly get three paragraphs into a MSM article without being frontloaded with Marxist propaganda and talking points. Anti-Christian, anti-Conservative, anti-traditional values, anti-gun, anti-men, and on and on.

Fuck them.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 11, 2023, 01:50:35 AM
Dismissing all mainstream press information because some mainstream press articles contain misinformation is a neighbor coming through your wall waving a chainsaw. It's the basis for thousands of conspiracy theories and dismissal of lots of real threats in our country (see for example Kiero here). It's way WAY more concerning that the fucking SRD letter (which I support but will likely be ignored).

LOL @ some...how about all? There isn't anything that's actually news anymore, it's all propaganda and commentary disguised as information. "No, seriously guys, I know they lied 500 times already, but THIS TIME they're telling the truth!"

And that's what I am referring to. That's completely nonsense. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Tons of good reporters still work for mainstream press. A lot of local issues are covered, which are usually more important to your families life than the national news. You've let partisanship get into your head if you think nothing can come from mainstream press which is useful for your life.

Except that trying to get to the truth of a news story from the likes of CNN or MSNBC is too much like being a Russian during the 80s and reading between the lines printed in Pravda.

I am more talking newspapers here than 24 hour news. Pretty much all 24 hour news functions on trying to scare people into hating the other side, fear of the future, and disaster porn.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 11, 2023, 01:51:26 AM
And that's what I am referring to. That's completely nonsense. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Tons of good reporters still work for mainstream press. A lot of local issues are covered, which are usually more important to your families life than the national news. You've let partisanship get into your head if you think nothing can come from mainstream press which is useful for your life.

What does partisanship have to do with not wasting my time with literal trash? This "I'm in the middle! If you disagree you're an extremist!" schtick is played out. Traditional media is PROPAGANDA, you immense fucktard. I don't care if there's a good recipe for cornbread hidden somewhere in the local newspaper, the fact I'd have to wade through page after page of misinformation and outright lies makes it not worth the effort.

I'm sure Marxist overlords will be thrilled you're still defending this nonsense, but the gaslighting isn't going to work on me.

Said the pedo.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rebelscum86 on January 11, 2023, 02:09:08 AM
Let's not be disingenuous, jhkim's right that the forum has a conservative leaning and lots of posters would be unhappy if suddenly they were getting shut down for stating conservative positions.  And I don't think there's anything wrong with that; I'm not going to go on political tirades in an RPG forum but I do appreciate being able to state my positions now and then without people running in to call me a fascist.  But it wouldn't end my world if Pundit one day put a blanket zero politics restriction on the place.

What nettles me about rpg.net's position is the constantly moving goalposts where saying that all police are genociders who should be imprisoned is a protected non-political position, but not being okay with little Billy being bused to a strip club by his school for a middle-aged guy to dance around in lingerie is literally murdering trans BIPOCs.  Either all political speech should be open for discussion, or none of it should be, not this double-standard.

I wouldn't have as much interest in lurking here b/c the draw is being able to actual speak and have a discourse over the cultural take over. I don't need current politics in gaming, but I would like talk about what is currently happening in gaming which is very political, and no politics, typically means no opposition to marxist ideology allowed.

I'm currently banned from 4chan over the OGL change, b/c a leftist said no one should be worried about the anti-discrimination clause if you can just not use racial slurs. I responded with actually here is a list of conservative values considered controversial. The leftist comment telling us just don't use the n-word is up, but conservative response is gone and I'm banned. That's a conservative experience with "no politics".

I do not need companies to reflect my politics, or say my slogans like leftists though, I support companies being apolitical, and I support gamers around a table not making political statements, but I'm not going to act like my opposition to cultural vandalism is political while the vandalism is going on around me.

I guess in short, if no politics was strictly enforced on leftists, you wouldn't hear about politics from the right.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rebelscum86 on January 11, 2023, 02:31:56 AM

Yes, but it was brought up as the ideologically pure alternative.

As highlighted by the fact someone suggested starting a NEW petition, back to zero signatures, just to avoid being tangentially being connected to the wrong-thinker.

You drink water? Hitler drank water! You're worse than Hitler!!!!

I mean we joke, but you may be on to something here. The contagion heuristic is big on the side of the woke. If it’s deemed associated with a “problematic” person or opinion then it gets thrown out and cancelled regardless of its own merits.

Hundreds of GOOD articles from mainstream press are dismissed here every year without even daring to read them because they are associated with a "problematic" source like the LA Times or Washington Post or New York Times, regardless of the merits of the article and even author. So I wouldn't say this is just about "woke" people.

The CORPORATE news has got EVERY SINGLE major cultural flash point story wrong this last decade and we only know about it b/c of cell phones and body cam. You should dismiss every article and only accept 1st hand sources; documents, reports, data, court filing, video.

I read news by searching links and opening the references.

That being said, if Bari Weiss started a petition I agreed with, I'd sign it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on January 11, 2023, 05:09:07 AM
Dismissing all mainstream press information because some mainstream press articles contain misinformation is a neighbor coming through your wall waving a chainsaw. It's the basis for thousands of conspiracy theories and dismissal of lots of real threats in our country (see for example Kiero here). It's way WAY more concerning that the fucking SRD letter (which I support but will likely be ignored).

I'm running out of "conspiracy theories", they keep coming true. They don't seem to have a shelf life of longer than about nine months before they're accepted to have been the reality from the beginning.

Don't worry, globalist shill, you'll catch up eventually.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 11, 2023, 08:23:00 AM
problematic

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.JQEy4rJ6VR9sKBxFtKnbvQAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=bae35c2d2ca90ccd729bebb37cf992415a4c0faa84b8a68d0c9e0cd2a2cead9b&ipo=images)

Some reason you eliminated the quotes I had around that word to suggest the same thing you're suggesting right now?

Go back and re-read your post before accusing me of anything, Chuckles.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on January 11, 2023, 08:23:27 AM
And that's what I am referring to. That's completely nonsense. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Tons of good reporters still work for mainstream press. A lot of local issues are covered, which are usually more important to your families life than the national news. You've let partisanship get into your head if you think nothing can come from mainstream press which is useful for your life.

What does partisanship have to do with not wasting my time with literal trash? This "I'm in the middle! If you disagree you're an extremist!" schtick is played out. Traditional media is PROPAGANDA, you immense fucktard. I don't care if there's a good recipe for cornbread hidden somewhere in the local newspaper, the fact I'd have to wade through page after page of misinformation and outright lies makes it not worth the effort.

I'm sure Marxist overlords will be thrilled you're still defending this nonsense, but the gaslighting isn't going to work on me.

Said the pedo.

So you got nothing except insults and lies.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on January 11, 2023, 09:15:32 AM
Let's not be disingenuous, jhkim's right that the forum has a conservative leaning and lots of posters would be unhappy if suddenly they were getting shut down for stating conservative positions.  And I don't think there's anything wrong with that; I'm not going to go on political tirades in an RPG forum but I do appreciate being able to state my positions now and then without people running in to call me a fascist.  But it wouldn't end my world if Pundit one day put a blanket zero politics restriction on the place.

What nettles me about rpg.net's position is the constantly moving goalposts where saying that all police are genociders who should be imprisoned is a protected non-political position, but not being okay with little Billy being bused to a strip club by his school for a middle-aged guy to dance around in lingerie is literally murdering trans BIPOCs.  Either all political speech should be open for discussion, or none of it should be, not this double-standard.

I wouldn't have as much interest in lurking here b/c the draw is being able to actual speak and have a discourse over the cultural take over. I don't need current politics in gaming, but I would like talk about what is currently happening in gaming which is very political, and no politics, typically means no opposition to marxist ideology allowed.

I'm currently banned from 4chan over the OGL change, b/c a leftist said no one should be worried about the anti-discrimination clause if you can just not use racial slurs. I responded with actually here is a list of conservative values considered controversial. The leftist comment telling us just don't use the n-word is up, but conservative response is gone and I'm banned. That's a conservative experience with "no politics".

I do not need companies to reflect my politics, or say my slogans like leftists though, I support companies being apolitical, and I support gamers around a table not making political statements, but I'm not going to act like my opposition to cultural vandalism is political while the vandalism is going on around me.

I guess in short, if no politics was strictly enforced on leftists, you wouldn't hear about politics from the right.

That's a fair point.

In my Discord chatroom, Randomworlds, political (and religious) advocacy is not allowed outside of one designated room. The chat itself is politically neutral. I am some variety of libertarian/conservative, but I don't allow political commentary of any sort outside of the designated room. We have gamers of all political stripes hanging out with us, and the policy has served us well for over two decades. (Feel free to stop by if you want to check the place out. The link is in my signature.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 11, 2023, 09:33:01 AM
Said the pedo.

If this isn't a ban-worthy post, I don't know what is.

Unsurprising a Marxist shill would resort to name calling when the gaslighting and browbeating doesn't work.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 11, 2023, 10:14:02 AM
And that's what I am referring to. That's completely nonsense. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Tons of good reporters still work for mainstream press. A lot of local issues are covered, which are usually more important to your families life than the national news. You've let partisanship get into your head if you think nothing can come from mainstream press which is useful for your life.

What does partisanship have to do with not wasting my time with literal trash? This "I'm in the middle! If you disagree you're an extremist!" schtick is played out. Traditional media is PROPAGANDA, you immense fucktard. I don't care if there's a good recipe for cornbread hidden somewhere in the local newspaper, the fact I'd have to wade through page after page of misinformation and outright lies makes it not worth the effort.

I'm sure Marxist overlords will be thrilled you're still defending this nonsense, but the gaslighting isn't going to work on me.

Said the pedo.

So you got nothing except insults and lies.

Brad had a porn picture for his avatar. It appeared to be a young girl. It was so bad Pundit, who NEVER tells people to change their avatar, asked him to change his avatar.

People here just acted like it never happened.

So no, not a lie. Seems like a fair accusation to me, even if y'all are too chicken to face him on it.

And he had no content there. He's just repeating "MSM bad" over and over in different ways, without actually addressing the issue I raised that there are plenty of good reporters and good stories in mainstream newspapers which are more relevant to him and the life of his family (if he has one) that the shit people love to focus on that's national or international news. His response is basically "nuh uh" and "I don't care." Neither of which is an argument to respond to.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 11, 2023, 10:15:42 AM
Said the pedo.

If this isn't a ban-worthy post, I don't know what is.

Unsurprising a Marxist shill would resort to name calling when the gaslighting and browbeating doesn't work.

LOL you want me banned for mentioning what happened here with you? For what, me reminding people it happened?

It's funny. You're all "free speech" until it hits you. Then you want the ban hammer, just like The Big Purple.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 11, 2023, 10:27:25 AM
Brad had a porn picture for his avatar.

Porn like naked woman?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 11, 2023, 10:29:07 AM
Brad had a porn picture for his avatar. It appeared to be a young girl. It was so bad Pundit, who NEVER tells people to change their avatar, asked him to change his avatar.

People here just acted like it never happened.

So no, not a lie. Seems like a fair accusation to me, even if y'all are too chicken to face him on it.

And he had no content there. He's just repeating "MSM bad" over and over in different ways, without actually addressing the issue I raised that there are plenty of good reporters and good stories in mainstream newspapers which are more relevant to him and the life of his family (if he has one) that the shit people love to focus on that's national or international news. His response is basically "nuh uh" and "I don't care." Neither of which is an argument to respond to.

This is so retarded I actually feel sorry for you. Get some help.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 11, 2023, 10:39:03 AM
So you got nothing except insults and lies.

And now he's just fabricating things. Wonder if Zak S took over his account...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 11, 2023, 10:39:59 AM
Stop shitting up the thread, Mistwell.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 11, 2023, 10:46:00 AM
Back on topic: no discussing President Pants-shitter's wandering documents:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/president-biden-news-thread-yes-no-no.906330/

(Expect them to never revisit this question or 'circle back' to it.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 11, 2023, 10:51:56 AM
Back on topic: no discussing President Pants-shitter's wandering documents:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/president-biden-news-thread-yes-no-no.906330/

(Expect them to never revisit this question or 'circle back' to it.)

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-surprised-learn-classified-docs-penn-think-tank

Look, he doesn't know what's in them! And that's from FOX NEWS! This is total nonsense. If you think this is remotely like anything Trump did (legally) you're just a pedo! --Mistwell, probably


If anyone thinks RPG.net isn't being run, or at least influenced, by some outside sources with money, I'd suggest seriously reevaluating your world view.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: RPGPundit on January 11, 2023, 11:43:35 AM
And that's what I am referring to. That's completely nonsense. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Tons of good reporters still work for mainstream press. A lot of local issues are covered, which are usually more important to your families life than the national news. You've let partisanship get into your head if you think nothing can come from mainstream press which is useful for your life.

What does partisanship have to do with not wasting my time with literal trash? This "I'm in the middle! If you disagree you're an extremist!" schtick is played out. Traditional media is PROPAGANDA, you immense fucktard. I don't care if there's a good recipe for cornbread hidden somewhere in the local newspaper, the fact I'd have to wade through page after page of misinformation and outright lies makes it not worth the effort.

I'm sure Marxist overlords will be thrilled you're still defending this nonsense, but the gaslighting isn't going to work on me.

Said the pedo.

This type of ad hominem is not welcome here. This is a warning.

Actually, seeing your later posts, don't post on this thread again or you'll be banned.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 11, 2023, 12:16:41 PM
Back on topic: no discussing President Pants-shitter's wandering documents:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/president-biden-news-thread-yes-no-no.906330/

(Expect them to never revisit this question or 'circle back' to it.)

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-surprised-learn-classified-docs-penn-think-tank

Look, he doesn't know what's in them! And that's from FOX NEWS! This is total nonsense. If you think this is remotely like anything Trump did (legally) you're just a pedo! --Mistwell, probably


If anyone thinks RPG.net isn't being run, or at least influenced, by some outside sources with money, I'd suggest seriously reevaluating your world view.
You underestimate leftists' willingness to shill for their political views, Brad.

Though I for one would love to see what's keeping Dyvers Hands (TBP's parent company) afloat. So I'm not throwing the idea away just yet.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 11, 2023, 12:28:40 PM
And that's what I am referring to. That's completely nonsense. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Tons of good reporters still work for mainstream press. A lot of local issues are covered, which are usually more important to your families life than the national news. You've let partisanship get into your head if you think nothing can come from mainstream press which is useful for your life.

What does partisanship have to do with not wasting my time with literal trash? This "I'm in the middle! If you disagree you're an extremist!" schtick is played out. Traditional media is PROPAGANDA, you immense fucktard. I don't care if there's a good recipe for cornbread hidden somewhere in the local newspaper, the fact I'd have to wade through page after page of misinformation and outright lies makes it not worth the effort.

I'm sure Marxist overlords will be thrilled you're still defending this nonsense, but the gaslighting isn't going to work on me.

Said the pedo.

So you got nothing except insults and lies.

Brad had a porn picture for his avatar. It appeared to be a young girl. It was so bad Pundit, who NEVER tells people to change their avatar, asked him to change his avatar.

I got told by a mod to change my avatar when it was a Nazi Triceratops with machine guns mounted on it's horns.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 11, 2023, 12:33:21 PM
You underestimate leftists' willingness to shill for their political views, Brad.

Though I for one would love to see what's keeping Dyvers Hands (TBP's parent company) afloat. So I'm not throwing the idea away just yet.

Well to some degree, yes, the "useful idiots" willingly push an agenda without any discernible outside force; just look at academia. But SOMETHING had to get the ball rolling, and just like academia is injected with cash every so often to pursue "research" that supports whatever claim a special interest group wants to make (fortifying the position that THEY'RE RIGHT!), so too I think stupid ass web forums like RPG.net are on the dole. These people are being rewarded somehow. Now, petty power corrupts, and some of them are absolutely perfectly happy with the only benefit being able to crush any and everyone who they arbitrarily decide has broken the rules, whatever those are, but the further you go up the food chain the closer to money you'll get. This is the case in everything.

Anyway, the real problem RPG.net is going to have is that, eventually, the only thing left will be bots and moderators, and then they'll have an infinite Hegelian circlejerk and morph into some fucked up singularity of uselessness. Which sort of proves Hegel right, I suppose.

I got told by a mod to change my avatar when it was a Nazi Triceratops with machine guns mounted on it's horns.

He just made that up 100%. I had an avatar of Keira Knightley forever and removed it when I self-banned; no one ever told me shit about it. Mistwell is either a lawyer, a journalist, or a politician.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 11, 2023, 12:38:40 PM
[sorry didn't see Pundit warning, please delete]
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 11, 2023, 12:39:56 PM
[sorry didn't see Pundit warning, please delete]
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on January 11, 2023, 12:40:48 PM
Mistwell, read Pundit’s post.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 11, 2023, 12:42:35 PM
Mistwell is either a lawyer, a journalist, or a politician.

That seems like an awful lot of words to just say liar.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on January 11, 2023, 11:04:18 PM
Mistwell is either a lawyer, a journalist, or a politician.

Dude, flaming someone who is threadbanned?  Not cool.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 12, 2023, 08:41:00 AM
Mistwell is either a lawyer, a journalist, or a politician.

Dude, flaming someone who is threadbanned?  Not cool.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.JQEy4rJ6VR9sKBxFtKnbvQAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=bae35c2d2ca90ccd729bebb37cf992415a4c0faa84b8a68d0c9e0cd2a2cead9b&ipo=images)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on January 12, 2023, 01:12:09 PM
Excellent, well reasoned response. I'm sure we are all impressed with your command of rhetoric.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mv09BwHGayM
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 12, 2023, 02:32:26 PM
Excellent, well reasoned response. I'm sure we are all impressed with your command of rhetoric.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mv09BwHGayM

My reply was an entirely appropriate response to your concern trolling, Mistwell.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on January 12, 2023, 03:07:06 PM
This thread is getting kinda weird. To bring things back on point, I find it kinda funny that in the wake of the OGL scandal RPG.net is now seemingly trying to bump and promote a thread advertising their own flavor of OSR away from what they deem badwrongthink. [Anything not approved and listed in their roundup is apparently subtly implied to be alt-right/racist/whatever at the start of the thread a year ago, which is equally hilarious and terrible.]

“Despite potential problems on the horizon with the new OGL, OSR creators are still pushing ahead. Get the latest news in our OSR Roundup!” (https://www.rpg.net/shownews.phtml?date=2023-01-11) Methinks maybe the rats can subconsciously recognize they may be on a sinking ship.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 12, 2023, 09:36:47 PM
Those people are so far up their own assess with rules and “guidance” about their A-game thread it’s gross.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 12, 2023, 10:41:36 PM
This thread is getting kinda weird. To bring things back on point, I find it kinda funny that in the wake of the OGL scandal RPG.net is now seemingly trying to bump and promote a thread advertising their own flavor of OSR away from what they deem badwrongthink. [Anything not approved and listed in their roundup is apparently subtly implied to be alt-right/racist/whatever at the start of the thread a year ago, which is equally hilarious and terrible.]

“Despite potential problems on the horizon with the new OGL, OSR creators are still pushing ahead. Get the latest news in our OSR Roundup!” (https://www.rpg.net/shownews.phtml?date=2023-01-11) Methinks maybe the rats can subconsciously recognize they may be on a sinking ship.
I'm kind of disappointed that they were freaking out about Macris and Desborough's names being on the petitions against the new OGL. 'EW I DON'T WANT MY NAME WITH HIS!'. Like a pack of fucking fifth graders. But I guess they've got the foresight of fifth graders if that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on January 12, 2023, 11:16:47 PM
I'm kind of disappointed that they were freaking out about Macris and Desborough's names being on the petitions against the new OGL. 'EW I DON'T WANT MY NAME WITH HIS!'. Like a pack of fucking fifth graders. But I guess they've got the foresight of fifth graders if that.

It’s annoying on many levels, but not at all unexpected. On the upside, I bet that with all this OGL nonsense Ascendant gets a boost. That and their screeching over Macris’ activism against WotC’s BS might cause more level headed folk to actually look into his products, which are not nearly as terrible as RPG.net had tried to make them or their authors out to be. Also funny that they pulled that after alleging they weren’t going to talk about him or his game.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on January 13, 2023, 01:57:26 PM
That and their screeching over Macris’ activism against WotC’s BS might cause more level headed folk to actually look into his products, which are not nearly as terrible as RPG.net had tried to make them or their authors out to be.

That's one of the biggest rhetorical blunders you can make. However tempting it is, never portray people you're criticizing as unparallelled monsters when they aren't; you may rouse the fatal human urge of curiosity, whereupon your listeners may actually want to go look at the monster you've created in their minds. And once they realize the reality doesn't match your description, they will never hear your words without skepticism again.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Rod's Duo Narcotics on January 13, 2023, 03:37:11 PM
On the upside, I bet that with all this OGL nonsense Ascendant gets a boost. That and their screeching over Macris’ activism against WotC’s BS might cause more level headed folk to actually look into his products, which are not nearly as terrible as RPG.net had tried to make them or their authors out to be. Also funny that they pulled that after alleging they weren’t going to talk about him or his game.

מפיך לאוזני אלוהים
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on January 13, 2023, 07:29:53 PM
That's one of the biggest rhetorical blunders you can make. However tempting it is, never portray people you're criticizing as unparallelled monsters when they aren't; you may rouse the fatal human urge of curiosity, whereupon your listeners may actually want to go look at the monster you've created in their minds. And once they realize the reality doesn't match your description, they will never hear your words without skepticism again.
This might be true of rational people. I don't think it's true of SJWs. If they were capable of rational thought, they would not be SJWs.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on January 20, 2023, 12:42:56 PM
Spotted over on a humdinger of a thread  (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/some-thoughts-on-racism-in-the-monster-manual-5e.906715/post-24663768)there:

Quote
I'm not worried about wotc being pressured, I'm worried about them deciding on their own to pander to rightwingers. They already have a terrible track record just in the 5e era.

  Are we living in the same reality? :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 20, 2023, 02:53:08 PM
So now, according to TBP staff the consultants on 5E are neo-Nazis. I’ve heard TBP describe some of the consultants described as Alt-Right, or have been accused of harassment and/or abuse, but I don’t think I’ve seen thr neo-Nazi label applied before. It’s truly a spiral of “everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi.”

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-read-post-1.906691/page-12#post-24663380
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 20, 2023, 11:49:14 PM
So now, according to TBP staff the consultants on 5E are neo-Nazis. I’ve heard TBP describe some of the consultants described as Alt-Right, or have been accused of harassment and/or abuse, but I don’t think I’ve seen thr neo-Nazi label applied before. It’s truly a spiral of “everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi.”

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-read-post-1.906691/page-12#post-24663380

"A-Game thread"



Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 21, 2023, 11:33:39 PM
Next exhibit showing that TBP and their Wokeness is a cult. There is a Humble Bundle headed by Kobold Press material raising funds for a charity that some were enthused to support until they learned that part of the bundle would include material from Troll Lord Games. They are literally treating Troll Lord Games as profane, and cannot tolerate even a tangential connection less they also be infected as profane, all because TLG disagrees in principle on the totalitarian idea that politics must be involved in everything.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-read-post-1.906691/page-26#post-24665400
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Garry G on January 22, 2023, 12:42:34 PM
Dismissing all mainstream press information because some mainstream press articles contain misinformation is a neighbor coming through your wall waving a chainsaw. It's the basis for thousands of conspiracy theories and dismissal of lots of real threats in our country (see for example Kiero here). It's way WAY more concerning that the fucking SRD letter (which I support but will likely be ignored).

I'm running out of "conspiracy theories", they keep coming true. They don't seem to have a shelf life of longer than about nine months before they're accepted to have been the reality from the beginning.

Don't worry, globalist shill, you'll catch up eventually.

They're accepted to be reality by yourself as you sink further into your delusion. You actually believe the whole world is out to get you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on January 22, 2023, 01:06:52 PM
Next exhibit showing that TBP and their Wokeness is a cult. There is a Humble Bundle headed by Kobold Press material raising funds for a charity that some were enthused to support until they learned that part of the bundle would include material from Troll Lord Games. They are literally treating Troll Lord Games as profane, and cannot tolerate even a tangential connection less they also be infected as profane, all because TLG disagrees in principle on the totalitarian idea that politics must be involved in everything.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-read-post-1.906691/page-26#post-24665400

Of course. That attitude runs against the heart and soul (such as they are) of RPGnet.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kiero on January 23, 2023, 06:23:44 AM
They're accepted to be reality by yourself as you sink further into your delusion. You actually believe the whole world is out to get you.

Poor little Gaz, still pushing this pathetic line as the narrative collapses around your ears? You know the ONS has admitted they lied about deaths by jab status and massaged the stats to make it look less dangerous that it is?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 23, 2023, 10:24:09 AM
Next exhibit showing that TBP and their Wokeness is a cult. There is a Humble Bundle headed by Kobold Press material raising funds for a charity that some were enthused to support until they learned that part of the bundle would include material from Troll Lord Games. They are literally treating Troll Lord Games as profane, and cannot tolerate even a tangential connection less they also be infected as profane, all because TLG disagrees in principle on the totalitarian idea that politics must be involved in everything.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-read-post-1.906691/page-26#post-24665400
You'd think that a possibly existential threat to RPGs would get them to hold their noses, maybe grumble about it, but not throw a tantrum. Hell, a friend of mine who IS very liberal linked that very bundle to me and recommended it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on January 23, 2023, 11:44:14 AM
Quote from: Zeea on RPG.Net
Gary Gygax was a violent white supremacist. (EDIT: To be more clear, Gary Gygax supported violent white supremacy. He didn't personally engage in it to the best of my knowledge. And I'm sure there was a lot more to him as a person. I have a mutual friend with him and everything. But that whole thing he said was really, really awful.)


https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/some-thoughts-on-racism-in-the-monster-manual-5e.906715/post-24666903 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/some-thoughts-on-racism-in-the-monster-manual-5e.906715/post-24666903)

Is this official TBP policy? And if so, how can they justify allowing discussion of the game? ;)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 23, 2023, 01:35:32 PM
Quote from: Zeea on RPG.Net
Gary Gygax was a violent white supremacist. (EDIT: To be more clear, Gary Gygax supported violent white supremacy. He didn't personally engage in it to the best of my knowledge. And I'm sure there was a lot more to him as a person. I have a mutual friend with him and everything. But that whole thing he said was really, really awful.)


https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/some-thoughts-on-racism-in-the-monster-manual-5e.906715/post-24666903 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/some-thoughts-on-racism-in-the-monster-manual-5e.906715/post-24666903)

Is this official TBP policy? And if so, how can they justify allowing discussion of the game? ;)
Well, it's Zeea, so the answer is 'probably'. Remember, 'official policy' on TBP is perpetually shifting sand dunes, not bedrock principles or rules.

They also threadbanned some guy for pointing out that changing 'Monster Manual' to 'Menace Manual' wasn't really an improvement.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/some-thoughts-on-racism-in-the-monster-manual-5e.906715/post-24667130

And as usual, the 'further sanctions may follow' just because Aikireikinu is a pathetic waste of flesh.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 23, 2023, 02:41:30 PM
“Antagonist Almanac” instead of Monster Manual. That thread is proof that people can be intelligent and articulate but also insane.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 23, 2023, 03:18:20 PM
They also threadbanned some guy for pointing out that changing 'Monster Manual' to 'Menace Manual' wasn't really an improvement.
I didn't think it was supposed to be an improvement, just an aesthetic change to suit the d20 Modern aesthetics and to avoid confusion with the D&D MM. The book also includes not just literal monsters but also antagonistic NPCs and cryptids and whatnot, so the title change makes slightly more sense in that light. A lot of stuff in d20 Modern comes across as quaint, silly, and twee now, but at least it was consistent.

“Antagonist Almanac” instead of Monster Manual. That thread is proof that people can be intelligent and articulate but also insane.
That title sounds so forced that it makes me think it would only be used in satire or parody, not a serious tone. Then again, "monster manual" when read literally also sounds fairly ambiguous, strange, and vague. It is a manual on how to be a monster? Kill monsters? Oh wait, you mean it's a bestiary? Then why not call it a bestiary? Why give its title a questionable alliteration but not the other two rulebooks?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on January 23, 2023, 04:58:42 PM
Quote from: Zeea on RPG.Net
Gary Gygax was a violent white supremacist. (EDIT: To be more clear, Gary Gygax supported violent white supremacy. He didn't personally engage in it to the best of my knowledge. And I'm sure there was a lot more to him as a person. I have a mutual friend with him and everything. But that whole thing he said was really, really awful.)


https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/some-thoughts-on-racism-in-the-monster-manual-5e.906715/post-24666903 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/some-thoughts-on-racism-in-the-monster-manual-5e.906715/post-24666903)

Is this official TBP policy? And if so, how can they justify allowing discussion of the game? ;)
Well, it's Zeea, so the answer is 'probably'. Remember, 'official policy' on TBP is perpetually shifting sand dunes, not bedrock principles or rules.

They also threadbanned some guy for pointing out that changing 'Monster Manual' to 'Menace Manual' wasn't really an improvement.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/some-thoughts-on-racism-in-the-monster-manual-5e.906715/post-24667130

And as usual, the 'further sanctions may follow' just because Aikireikinu is a pathetic waste of flesh.


LOL. This whole thread started by Zeea makes me so happy. I get to watch the sjdubs spend countless hours on destroying WotC D&D. I'm giddy with excitement.

I also realized that individuals like Zeea, who seems to want to find things to complain about, will never be in real power. They have their little bit of power on TBP and they are fascist dictators in their little pond. The very things they proclaim to hate, they do.

It's so cathartic watching them be so small.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 23, 2023, 05:38:19 PM
“Antagonist Almanac” instead of Monster Manual. That thread is proof that people can be intelligent and articulate but also insane.

Politically Approved Compendium Of Antagonists
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on January 25, 2023, 02:28:51 PM
Wait... I refuse to go to TBP every since they banned me, but how is Gary Gygax a supporter of "violent white supremacy", now?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 25, 2023, 02:37:20 PM
Wait... I refuse to go to TBP every since they banned me, but how is Gary Gygax a supporter of "violent white supremacy", now?

He was a straight white man, and he lived in the past. That's 4 reasons right there.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 25, 2023, 02:44:46 PM
Wait... I refuse to go to TBP every since they banned me, but how is Gary Gygax a supporter of "violent white supremacy", now?
It’s the equivalent of Original Sin for the Woke. Since Gary died before he had an opportunity to become Woke himself he remains forever guilty of violent white supremacy as do all white people who have not become Woke.

That’s how the Woke secular theology works, but don’t liken it to a religion! It’s completely rational, and not at all like a religion.

In fact it’s much worse than any typical religion. By claiming to be secular and rational they’re giving themselves carte blanche to any position they want to take. Doubt is banished. Because it’s relatively new they have no large body of history to review for where they might have made mistakes, or to learn any sense of temperament.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 25, 2023, 02:49:28 PM
There's the swordpoint conversion quote in “From the Sorceror’s Scroll”:
Quote
“A Paladin could well force conversion at swordpoint, and, once acceptance of ‘the true way’ was expressed, dispatch the new convert on the spot. This assures that the prodigal will not return to the former evil ways, sends the now-saved spirit on to a better place, and incidentally rids the world of a potential troublemaker. Such actions are ‘good,’ in these ways:

1. Evil is abridged (by at least one creature).
2. Good has gained a convert.
3. The convert now has hope for rewards (rather than torment) in the afterlife.
4. The good populace is safer (by a factor of at least 1).

It is therefore possible for a Paladin to, in fact, actually perform a ‘mercy killing’ such as the inquiring player asked about, provided the tenets of his or her theology permitted it. While unlikely, it is possible.”

Also, the "nits make lice" quote which refers to the genocide of native Americans. https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=197268&sid=191c5ae818e9826fa3a8736857f839a3#p197268

I wish Gygax was around to defend himself, because these quotes sound absolutely revolting to me and make good little different than evil. By this metric, the greatest good would be to convert and kill all living things. Which is obviously insane and I don't think Gygax meant that. He was responding to strawman arguments, so I suspect he got overzealous and ended up making an "omnicide is good" argument by mistake.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 25, 2023, 02:52:32 PM
Wait... I refuse to go to TBP every since they banned me, but how is Gary Gygax a supporter of "violent white supremacy", now?
Hey doncha know? Saying slightly insensitive things is the very definition of violent white supremacy!!!

These people are fucked in the head, absolute silk slippers crowd with no actual problems in their life they have to invent imaginary problems to solve. Have you ever had a friend or family member suddenly start to obsess over stupid pointless shit? 9 times out of 10 they got bored because the series they were watching finished, their ex changed the netflix password, or whatever and they have nothing better to do.

These people just bob around in their diarrhea filled hot tub that recirculates the same warm liquid crap continuously because they are too fearful to get out and do something and talk to real people.

If they actually met Gary, he'd probably be like hey wanna play and elf game?

It they actually met a violent white supremacist, it would be vastly different.

There's no saving them, aside from kicking in their door and forcibly removing them from their bullshit cocoon and taking them out to get drunk and mix with regular people.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on January 25, 2023, 03:08:33 PM
There's the swordpoint conversion quote in “From the Sorceror’s Scroll”:
Quote
“A Paladin could well force conversion at swordpoint, and, once acceptance of ‘the true way’ was expressed, dispatch the new convert on the spot. This assures that the prodigal will not return to the former evil ways, sends the now-saved spirit on to a better place, and incidentally rids the world of a potential troublemaker. Such actions are ‘good,’ in these ways:

1. Evil is abridged (by at least one creature).
2. Good has gained a convert.
3. The convert now has hope for rewards (rather than torment) in the afterlife.
4. The good populace is safer (by a factor of at least 1).

It is therefore possible for a Paladin to, in fact, actually perform a ‘mercy killing’ such as the inquiring player asked about, provided the tenets of his or her theology permitted it. While unlikely, it is possible.”

Also, the "nits make lice" quote which refers to the genocide of native Americans. https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=197268&sid=191c5ae818e9826fa3a8736857f839a3#p197268

I wish Gygax was around to defend himself, because these quotes sound absolutely revolting to me and make good little different than evil. By this metric, the greatest good would be to convert and kill all living things. Which is obviously insane and I don't think Gygax meant that. He was responding to strawman arguments, so I suspect he got overzealous and ended up making an "omnicide is good" argument by mistake.

I will say, I don't think I can really truck with Gary's understanding of "good".

"Also, as I have often noted, a paladin can freely dispatch prisoners of Evil alignment that have surrrendered and renounced that alignment in favor of Lawful Good. They are then sent on to their reward before thay can backslide."

That... is not a good act.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 25, 2023, 03:25:42 PM
Also, the "nits make lice" quote which refers to the genocide of native Americans. https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=197268&sid=191c5ae818e9826fa3a8736857f839a3#p197268

The thing is, American Indians are not born inherently evil. In D&D though, there are whole races that are inherently evil, and their very existence is a blight on the realm.

Orc babies in D&D really are going to grow up to mass rape and kill, and niceness and education isn't going to stop it. They were made by an evil god, to resemble that evil god, who constantly eggs them on spiritually.

This is just more of the 'grafting real world groups on to fantasy races' crap we're currently wading through.

So, do I think a Paladin would kill Orc babies? No. Because to be pure enough to be a Paladin, you shouldn't always be practical.
Should a sensible warrior put them to the sword? I'd argue yes.

Good people killing redeemed prisoners so they die good is just pants-on-head nonsense.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 25, 2023, 03:49:53 PM
There's the swordpoint conversion quote in “From the Sorceror’s Scroll”:
Quote
“A Paladin could well force conversion at swordpoint, and, once acceptance of ‘the true way’ was expressed, dispatch the new convert on the spot. This assures that the prodigal will not return to the former evil ways, sends the now-saved spirit on to a better place, and incidentally rids the world of a potential troublemaker. Such actions are ‘good,’ in these ways:

1. Evil is abridged (by at least one creature).
2. Good has gained a convert.
3. The convert now has hope for rewards (rather than torment) in the afterlife.
4. The good populace is safer (by a factor of at least 1).

It is therefore possible for a Paladin to, in fact, actually perform a ‘mercy killing’ such as the inquiring player asked about, provided the tenets of his or her theology permitted it. While unlikely, it is possible.”

Also, the "nits make lice" quote which refers to the genocide of native Americans. https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=197268&sid=191c5ae818e9826fa3a8736857f839a3#p197268

I wish Gygax was around to defend himself, because these quotes sound absolutely revolting to me and make good little different than evil. By this metric, the greatest good would be to convert and kill all living things. Which is obviously insane and I don't think Gygax meant that. He was responding to strawman arguments, so I suspect he got overzealous and ended up making an "omnicide is good" argument by mistake.

I will say, I don't I can really truck with Gary's understanding of "good".

"Also, as I have often noted, a paladin can freely dispatch prisoners of Evil alignment that have surrrendered and renounced that alignment in favor of Lawful Good. They are then sent on to their reward before thay can backslide."

That... is not a good act.
We’re not going to be able to revisit that topic with Gary to see if there’s any nuance to it. I can see where he was coming from. Good, if excluding an objective and universally accepted definition to use as the reference point, is defined differently by man at different times.

I can see his example of a Paladin reflecting an interpretation of Lawful Good. Take a pseudo-feudal society that doesn’t not have a redemptive theology akin to Christianity, but someone who has dedicated themselves to being “Lawful Good”. You capture some bandits, and in this lane the punishment for banditry is death. In speaking with the bandits some renounce their ways, and sincerely decide to be good as defined in this setting. The Paladin is pleased by their conversion, but they were still bandits, and the penalty for banditry is death. So he kills them with no regrets. This is a setting that doesn’t have a belief system for someone being born again. Inhabitants aren’t exhorted by their theologies to be merciful to all because they are also asking for mercy from their gods.

Now, is the above situation an example of good if your table is running according to a Western and modern conception of good? Certainly not. But it could be if the table was approaching morality differently. I won’t say one approach is inherently better than the other, but I think I can see where Gary was coming from on that particular day as he was probably typing back an answer in the space of 5 minutes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on January 25, 2023, 04:04:28 PM
I can see his example of a Paladin reflecting an interpretation of Lawful Good. Take a pseudo-feudal society that doesn’t not have a redemptive theology akin to Christianity, but someone who has dedicated themselves to being “Lawful Good”. You capture some bandits, and in this lane the punishment for banditry is death. In speaking with the bandits some renounce their ways, and sincerely decide to be good as defined in this setting. The Paladin is pleased by their conversion, but they were still bandits, and the penalty for banditry is death. So he kills them with no regrets. This is a setting that doesn’t have a belief system for someone being born again. Inhabitants aren’t exhorted by their theologies to be merciful to all because they are also asking for mercy from their gods.

That's Lawful. It isn't Good. Lawful Good requires both elements. There's a reason they are two separate axis. Hell, paladins are a class that is basically objective, metaphysical Good incarnate, and can sense objective, metaphysical evil... despite their alignment restrictions, they don't really have any law/chaos powers. If anything, the "good" element should be more important than the "lawful" element. Otherwise, you get... Well. Bluntly, you get the stereotype of the "lawful asshole" Paladin, which seems to be what Gary is supporting.

Hey, look, he's the grandfather of our hobby, I'm not trying to vilify him, just saying... on this point, I disagree with his interpretation.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on January 25, 2023, 04:12:33 PM
I can see his example of a Paladin reflecting an interpretation of Lawful Good. Take a pseudo-feudal society that doesn’t not have a redemptive theology akin to Christianity, but someone who has dedicated themselves to being “Lawful Good”. You capture some bandits, and in this lane the punishment for banditry is death. In speaking with the bandits some renounce their ways, and sincerely decide to be good as defined in this setting. The Paladin is pleased by their conversion, but they were still bandits, and the penalty for banditry is death. So he kills them with no regrets. This is a setting that doesn’t have a belief system for someone being born again. Inhabitants aren’t exhorted by their theologies to be merciful to all because they are also asking for mercy from their gods.

That's Lawful. It isn't Good. Lawful Good requires both elements. There's a reason they are two separate axis. Hell, paladins are a class that is basically objective, metaphysical Good incarnate, and can sense objective, metaphysical evil... despite their alignment restrictions, they don't really have any law/chaos powers. If anything, the "good" element should be more important than the "lawful" element. Otherwise, you get... Well. Bluntly, you get the stereotype of the "lawful asshole" Paladin, which seems to be what Gary is supporting.

Hey, look, he's the grandfather of our hobby, I'm not trying to vilify him, just saying... on this point, I disagree with his interpretation.

I'm inclined to agree. If you insist on "following the rules" regardless of whether the required action is good or evil, you aren't Lawful Good -- you're Lawful Neutral.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on January 25, 2023, 04:17:11 PM
You capture some bandits, and in this lane the punishment for banditry is death. In speaking with the bandits some renounce their ways, and sincerely decide to be good as defined in this setting. The Paladin is pleased by their conversion, but they were still bandits, and the penalty for banditry is death. So he kills them with no regrets.

That's Lawful. It isn't Good. Lawful Good requires both elements.

Bear in mind that paladins are, by definition, knights, and in a feudal society knights are, by definition, authorized to enforce justice. So it's not the same situation as it is in modern Western law where policing, judicial, and state power of execution are all deliberately separated out by function; this is a society which sees nothing wrong with one person being authorized to do all of the above as needed in any given situation. Even in our own society, conversion and sincere repentance isn't considered to automatically justify commuting a death sentence if someone's earned it by their crimes.

Now you may believe that capital punishment is in itself an evil thing, but again, that's a product of our time, not the sorts of environments in which paladins typically exist. Even today, the Catholic Church still teaches that capital punishment is in principle a licit use of state power (although most actual Catholics tend to be against it as a matter of practical policy, given the limits of fallible human law enforcement and justice establishments).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on January 25, 2023, 04:17:50 PM
Reading that whole column and other early Gygaxian works on the topic give me a strong sense of divine command ethics--it primarily matters if your deity approves or not. I have issues with divine command ethics to begin with, and trying to shoehorn them into a polytheistic structure only exacerbates them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 25, 2023, 04:25:02 PM
Also, the "nits make lice" quote which refers to the genocide of native Americans. https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=197268&sid=191c5ae818e9826fa3a8736857f839a3#p197268

The thing is, American Indians are not born inherently evil. In D&D though, there are whole races that are inherently evil, and their very existence is a blight on the realm.

Orc babies in D&D really are going to grow up to mass rape and kill, and niceness and education isn't going to stop it. They were made by an evil god, to resemble that evil god, who constantly eggs them on spiritually.

This is just more of the 'grafting real world groups on to fantasy races' crap we're currently wading through.

So, do I think a Paladin would kill Orc babies? No. Because to be pure enough to be a Paladin, you shouldn't always be practical.
Should a sensible warrior put them to the sword? I'd argue yes.

Good people killing redeemed prisoners so they die good is just pants-on-head nonsense.
Gary was the one who made the comparison by quoting a real genocidal lunatic.

The orc babies argument is ancient. If you want to avoid the umpteenth time it's brought up and comparisons to real life genocide, then maybe redesign orcs so they don't have babies? 40k orks and 13th Age orcs are a good example of how you can do this.

There's the swordpoint conversion quote in “From the Sorceror’s Scroll”:
Quote
“A Paladin could well force conversion at swordpoint, and, once acceptance of ‘the true way’ was expressed, dispatch the new convert on the spot. This assures that the prodigal will not return to the former evil ways, sends the now-saved spirit on to a better place, and incidentally rids the world of a potential troublemaker. Such actions are ‘good,’ in these ways:

1. Evil is abridged (by at least one creature).
2. Good has gained a convert.
3. The convert now has hope for rewards (rather than torment) in the afterlife.
4. The good populace is safer (by a factor of at least 1).

It is therefore possible for a Paladin to, in fact, actually perform a ‘mercy killing’ such as the inquiring player asked about, provided the tenets of his or her theology permitted it. While unlikely, it is possible.”

Also, the "nits make lice" quote which refers to the genocide of native Americans. https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=197268&sid=191c5ae818e9826fa3a8736857f839a3#p197268

I wish Gygax was around to defend himself, because these quotes sound absolutely revolting to me and make good little different than evil. By this metric, the greatest good would be to convert and kill all living things. Which is obviously insane and I don't think Gygax meant that. He was responding to strawman arguments, so I suspect he got overzealous and ended up making an "omnicide is good" argument by mistake.

I will say, I don't think I can really truck with Gary's understanding of "good".

"Also, as I have often noted, a paladin can freely dispatch prisoners of Evil alignment that have surrrendered and renounced that alignment in favor of Lawful Good. They are then sent on to their reward before thay can backslide."

That... is not a good act.
No, it isn't a good act.

It is also a genuine theological dilemma. If people go to go to hell for sinning, then it makes perfect sense to convert and exterminate everyone so that they don't risk sinning and going to hell.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on January 25, 2023, 04:41:42 PM
If people go to go to hell for sinning, then it makes perfect sense to convert and exterminate everyone so that they don't risk sinning and going to hell.

Only if you assume that any given mortal is justly authorized to make that decision for any other on a general basis. Which is why most religions include both specific commandments ("Thou shalt not murder") and general traditions ("Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord") telling their worshippers that they're not.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 25, 2023, 04:43:16 PM
I can see his example of a Paladin reflecting an interpretation of Lawful Good. Take a pseudo-feudal society that doesn’t not have a redemptive theology akin to Christianity, but someone who has dedicated themselves to being “Lawful Good”. You capture some bandits, and in this lane the punishment for banditry is death. In speaking with the bandits some renounce their ways, and sincerely decide to be good as defined in this setting. The Paladin is pleased by their conversion, but they were still bandits, and the penalty for banditry is death. So he kills them with no regrets. This is a setting that doesn’t have a belief system for someone being born again. Inhabitants aren’t exhorted by their theologies to be merciful to all because they are also asking for mercy from their gods.

That's Lawful. It isn't Good. Lawful Good requires both elements. There's a reason they are two separate axis. Hell, paladins are a class that is basically objective, metaphysical Good incarnate, and can sense objective, metaphysical evil... despite their alignment restrictions, they don't really have any law/chaos powers. If anything, the "good" element should be more important than the "lawful" element. Otherwise, you get... Well. Bluntly, you get the stereotype of the "lawful asshole" Paladin, which seems to be what Gary is supporting.

Hey, look, he's the grandfather of our hobby, I'm not trying to vilify him, just saying... on this point, I disagree with his interpretation.
I think your interpretation of good is strongly based on a modern mindset.

Moses orders the the destruction of the Midianites. When his army comes back after killing all the Midianite men, but with the Midianite women and children as prisoners God’s prophet is outraged. He orders the subsequent execution of all male children and females who weren’t virgins. When the Hebrews were commanded by God to take Canaan, they were commanded to kill every man, woman and child. If you’re a believer in the Bible following a command by God is inherently good. It doesn’t come close to a modern conception of good. You may not think this is Lawful Good behavior, but I imagine for thousands of years after, the vast majority of Hebrews/Jews, early Christians , modern fundamentalists would describe those actions as fitting within Lawful Good if asked to put them into the 9-point alignment system.

We may be getting off topic.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on January 25, 2023, 04:54:21 PM
Orc babies in D&D really are going to grow up to mass rape and kill, and niceness and education isn't going to stop it.

And even if it did, the act of taking children from their native culture and educating them in a radically different culture and belief system, however superior or beneficial you think that culture, is also considered to be a grave moral evil by the people objecting to the "evil race" trope. So there really isn't any way to answer that particular complaint, at least not from within its own philosophy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 25, 2023, 04:55:01 PM
You capture some bandits, and in this lane the punishment for banditry is death. In speaking with the bandits some renounce their ways, and sincerely decide to be good as defined in this setting. The Paladin is pleased by their conversion, but they were still bandits, and the penalty for banditry is death. So he kills them with no regrets.

That's Lawful. It isn't Good. Lawful Good requires both elements.

Bear in mind that paladins are, by definition, knights, and in a feudal society knights are, by definition, authorized to enforce justice. So it's not the same situation as it is in modern Western law where policing, judicial, and state power of execution are all deliberately separated out by function; this is a society which sees nothing wrong with one person being authorized to do all of the above as needed in any given situation. Even in our own society, conversion and sincere repentance isn't considered to automatically justify commuting a death sentence if someone's earned it by their crimes.

Now you may believe that capital punishment is in itself an evil thing, but again, that's a product of our time, not the sorts of environments in which paladins typically exist. Even today, the Catholic Church still teaches that capital punishment is in principle a licit use of state power (although most actual Catholics tend to be against it as a matter of practical policy, given the limits of fallible human law enforcement and justice establishments).
I agree. If church and state say capital punishment is appropriate, then where does the paladin get the idea that it's not good?

This reminds me of an excellent podcast by Dan Carlin regarding public executions. IIRC, public repentance by the condemned was viewed as a critical step in the process because nobody wanted to watch someone get sent to Hell. Once the condemned repented aloud, it was all good fun because his soul would be fine, and that was the important part. I probably butchered that explanation, but here's the link to the free podcast if anyone's interested.

https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-61-blitz-painfotainment/


Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 25, 2023, 05:12:38 PM
If people go to go to hell for sinning, then it makes perfect sense to convert and exterminate everyone so that they don't risk sinning and going to hell.

Only if you assume that any given mortal is justly authorized to make that decision for any other on a general basis. Which is why most religions include both specific commandments ("Thou shalt not murder") and general traditions ("Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord") telling their worshippers that they're not.
It doesn’t matter. While the killer might go to hell, his victims still go to heaven. That’s a worthy sacrifice for the greater good. “I will damn myself to hell by killing all 8 billion human beings, if it means enough of them go to heaven in my place and the countless souls of the future unborn never have to worry about sinning.”

This is a fundamental problem with any kind of morality that allows for the existence of any Greater Good. It inevitably results in the ends consuming the means.

I’m just speaking purely from a logical perspective. The logic checks out, even if humans and gods alike refuse to acknowledge it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on January 25, 2023, 05:20:40 PM
I think your interpretation of good is strongly based on a modern mindset.

Moses orders the the destruction of the Midianites. When his army comes back after killing all the Midianite men, but with the Midianite women and children as prisoners God’s prophet is outraged. He orders the subsequent execution of all male children and females who weren’t virgins. When the Hebrews were commanded by God to take Canaan, they were commanded to kill every man, woman and child. If you’re a believer in the Bible following a command by God is inherently good. It doesn’t come close to a modern conception of good. You may not think this is Lawful Good behavior, but I imagine for thousands of years after, the vast majority of Hebrews/Jews, early Christians , modern fundamentalists would describe those actions as fitting within Lawful Good if asked to put them into the 9-point alignment system.

We may be getting off topic.

In this case, my interpretation of "good" is a D&D-centric one. In D&D, good isn't subjective, it's not about where you feel you belong on the axis chart, it's certainly not "whatever my god says to do is good", it's not anything like that. The presence of good and evil in D&D are objective facts and scientifically verifiable. It just is. Followers of evil gods in D&D are not doing good because they are following the commandments of their god.

And as for "following the law", where the Paladin is in an area where the law of the land says "kill all bandits"... So? What if the Paladin is in an area where the law is "nobles can kill a commoner for insulting them"? Can the Paladin kill a kid who laughed at him and "have no regrets"?

You can't see me, but imagine me putting my pinched fingers to the bridge of my nose and sighing, right about now.

There's a reason the D&D alignment system in general, and paladins in specific, have been a point of contention for basically as long as such things have been elements of the game.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on January 25, 2023, 05:25:45 PM
I agree. If church and state say capital punishment is appropriate, then where does the paladin get the idea that it's not good?

Because D&D. Because Paladins are literally able to sense evil. "Because church and state say so" is less of an authority than "Holy shit, that hurts to look at" or "Hey, why did my magic sword of Goodliness stop working for me?".

A church can become corrupt and still be a church. A paladin that becomes corrupt falls from grace.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 25, 2023, 05:50:48 PM
I agree. If church and state say capital punishment is appropriate, then where does the paladin get the idea that it's not good?

Because D&D. Because Paladins are literally able to sense evil. "Because church and state say so" is less of an authority than "Holy shit, that hurts to look at" or "Hey, why did my magic sword of Goodliness stop working for me?".

A church can become corrupt and still be a church. A paladin that becomes corrupt falls from grace.
I don't know enough about D&D paladins to argue intelligently. I suspect that, in actual medieval times, anyone choosing to believe a sword over the established church hierarchy would be executed as a heretic.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on January 25, 2023, 05:53:01 PM
Also, the "nits make lice" quote which refers to the genocide of native Americans. https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=197268&sid=191c5ae818e9826fa3a8736857f839a3#p197268

The thing is, American Indians are not born inherently evil. In D&D though, there are whole races that are inherently evil, and their very existence is a blight on the realm.

Orc babies in D&D really are going to grow up to mass rape and kill, and niceness and education isn't going to stop it.

The question is, what real-world ideology is this teaching? By contrast, JRR Tolkien thought about this question, and his stance on orcs was different. As he wrote in letter 153,

Quote from: JRR Tolkien
They would be Morgoth's greatest Sins, abuses of his highest privilege, and would be creatures begotten of Sin, and naturally bad. (I nearly wrote 'irredeemably bad'; but that would be going too far. Because by accepting or tolerating their making — necessary to their actual existence — even Orcs would become part of the World, which is God's and ultimately good.)

So Tolkien felt that orcs could be redeemed, and it's clear that this is a reflection of his own real-world values.

Gygax's orcs are different in a number of ways. Tolkien's orcs are factory workers and foot soldiers. They are part of an industrial complex - either of Sauron or Saruman. They have great but ugly machines, as well as effective but brutal medicine. They speak in lower-class cockney accents. However, they are redeemable.

In AD&D, orcs aren't industrialized this way. They tend to live in caves and dungeons in the wilderness. There is more of a Wild West feel, as epitomized by Keep on the Borderlands.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 25, 2023, 06:01:03 PM
I think your interpretation of good is strongly based on a modern mindset.

Moses orders the the destruction of the Midianites. When his army comes back after killing all the Midianite men, but with the Midianite women and children as prisoners God’s prophet is outraged. He orders the subsequent execution of all male children and females who weren’t virgins. When the Hebrews were commanded by God to take Canaan, they were commanded to kill every man, woman and child. If you’re a believer in the Bible following a command by God is inherently good. It doesn’t come close to a modern conception of good. You may not think this is Lawful Good behavior, but I imagine for thousands of years after, the vast majority of Hebrews/Jews, early Christians , modern fundamentalists would describe those actions as fitting within Lawful Good if asked to put them into the 9-point alignment system.

We may be getting off topic.

In this case, my interpretation of "good" is a D&D-centric one. In D&D, good isn't subjective, it's not about where you feel you belong on the axis chart, it's certainly not "whatever my god says to do is good", it's not anything like that. The presence of good and evil in D&D are objective facts and scientifically verifiable. It just is. Followers of evil gods in D&D are not doing good because they are following the commandments of their god.

And as for "following the law", where the Paladin is in an area where the law of the land says "kill all bandits"... So? What if the Paladin is in an area where the law is "nobles can kill a commoner for insulting them"? Can the Paladin kill a kid who laughed at him and "have no regrets"?

You can't see me, but imagine me putting my pinched fingers to the bridge of my nose and sighing, right about now.

There's a reason the D&D alignment system in general, and paladins in specific, have been a point of contention for basically as long as such things have been elements of the game.
So you’re relying on the definition of good given in D&D. Gary Gygax wrote the Player’s Handbook that gave a definition of Lawful Good, but somehow he doesn’t seem to find a conflict in how he thinks of Lawful Good on Dragonsfoot, and what he wrote in the Player’s Handbook?

If you’re relying on the definition of good as given in D&D, and Gary defines and describes Lawful Good in a way that you disagree with I’m not sure how you can rely on D&D as an authority to refute its author.

If you’re referring to a different edition of D&D than what Gary wrote we may have a case of comparing apples to oranges.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on January 25, 2023, 06:03:20 PM
While the killer might go to hell, his victims still go to heaven. That’s a worthy sacrifice for the greater good.

Again, only if the victims have the chance to repent first. No practical method of mass murder allows this. Logic has to acknowledge the limits of logical possibility to be valid (which is why the old "can God make a rock so heavy He can't lift it?" question is not a valid disproof of the concept of omnipotence).

Paladins can certainly be played in the Lawful Stupid end of the spectrum if issues like this aren't thought through. But it is possible to veer into the Stupid Good end of the spectrum as well, and the difficulty is that any move away from one end of the spectrum can always be seen as a dangerous slide towards the other.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on January 25, 2023, 06:57:21 PM
I don't know enough about D&D paladins to argue intelligently. I suspect that, in actual medieval times, anyone choosing to believe a sword over the established church hierarchy would be executed as a heretic.

Yeah, look, D&D, even at it's most crustiest of crusty, was never really modeling the "actual medieval times". So that's kind of a meaningless statement. In "actual medieval times", you didn't have paladin as D&D understands the concept... The idea of a divine conduit to a god, going around and healing with a touch and stuff? He'd be considered a saint or a prophet, a legendary figure. In D&D, he's not that special.

But in any event, even if you assume that people wouldn't believe the Paladin, for literally being able to sense evil, or know when he Fell, or when his magic items stopped working? Again, D&D as written has objective morality. That's, again, just saying that the church is corrupt/evil.

So you’re relying on the definition of good given in D&D. Gary Gygax wrote the Player’s Handbook that gave a definition of Lawful Good, but somehow he doesn’t seem to find a conflict in how he thinks of Lawful Good on Dragonsfoot, and what he wrote in the Player’s Handbook?

If you’re relying on the definition of good as given in D&D, and Gary defines and describes Lawful Good in a way that you disagree with I’m not sure how you can rely on D&D as an authority to refute its author.

If you’re referring to a different edition of D&D than what Gary wrote we may have a case of comparing apples to oranges.

And Ray Bradbury would later go on to say that the true message of Fahrenheit 451 was about the evils of television, while J.K. Rowling says that wizards used to go around shitting their robes and just magicking the feces away. As much as I'm one of the Tolkien scholars who will drag out things the man said in letters and such, I can recognize that sometimes it's best we not pay too much attention to stuff authors wrote after the fact.

I'll accept that Gary feels a certain way. I disagree with Gary. I don't think the work Gary published supports the views he espoused 30+  years later on an internet forum. If pressed, I'll go so far as to say as much as I respect Gary, I think his interpretation is stupid.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 25, 2023, 07:10:25 PM
I don't know enough about D&D paladins to argue intelligently. I suspect that, in actual medieval times, anyone choosing to believe a sword over the established church hierarchy would be executed as a heretic.

Yeah, look, D&D, even at it's most crustiest of crusty, was never really modeling the "actual medieval times". So that's kind of a meaningless statement. In "actual medieval times", you didn't have paladin as D&D understands the concept... The idea of a divine conduit to a god, going around and healing with a touch and stuff? He'd be considered a saint or a prophet, a legendary figure. In D&D, he's not that special.

But in any event, even if you assume that people wouldn't believe the Paladin, for literally being able to sense evil, or know when he Fell, or when his magic items stopped working? Again, D&D as written has objective morality. That's, again, just saying that the church is corrupt/evil.

So you’re relying on the definition of good given in D&D. Gary Gygax wrote the Player’s Handbook that gave a definition of Lawful Good, but somehow he doesn’t seem to find a conflict in how he thinks of Lawful Good on Dragonsfoot, and what he wrote in the Player’s Handbook?

If you’re relying on the definition of good as given in D&D, and Gary defines and describes Lawful Good in a way that you disagree with I’m not sure how you can rely on D&D as an authority to refute its author.

If you’re referring to a different edition of D&D than what Gary wrote we may have a case of comparing apples to oranges.

And Ray Bradbury would later go on to say that the true message of Fahrenheit 451 was about the evils of television, while J.K. Rowling says that wizards used to go around shitting their robes and just magicking the feces away. As much as I'm one of the Tolkien scholars who will drag out things the man said in letters and such, I can recognize that sometimes it's best we not pay too much attention to stuff authors wrote after the fact.

I'll accept that Gary feels a certain way. I disagree with Gary. I don't think the work Gary published supports the views he espoused 30+  years later on an internet forum. If pressed, I'll go so far as to say as much as I respect Gary, I think his interpretation is stupid.
It’s not any big deal to disagree with Gary or anyone on what the definition of good is. It becomes a stretch when Gary is giving his take on what Lawful Good is, in a thread focused on his works, but then claim the D&D that he wrote as a source to refute his understanding of Lawful Good.

You, and every table can have a definition for Lawful Good that’s different from Gary’s, and you could have excellent reasons for doing so, but understand that’s the definition at your table, it’ll be different from other tables, and is different from the definition of the author. You’re no longer using the “D&D” definition provided by the author. I’ve seen no evidence that Gary’s definition had changed or “developed”.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 25, 2023, 07:10:57 PM
While the killer might go to hell, his victims still go to heaven. That’s a worthy sacrifice for the greater good.

Again, only if the victims have the chance to repent first. No practical method of mass murder allows this. Logic has to acknowledge the limits of logical possibility to be valid (which is why the old "can God make a rock so heavy He can't lift it?" question is not a valid disproof of the concept of omnipotence).

Paladins can certainly be played in the Lawful Stupid end of the spectrum if issues like this aren't thought through. But it is possible to veer into the Stupid Good end of the spectrum as well, and the difficulty is that any move away from one end of the spectrum can always be seen as a dangerous slide towards the other.
I can pretend it’s not a problem, just like I do so many other tropes. Realistically speaking, every setting which has eternal damnation would eventually inspire an interplanetary crusade to exterminate all life to save their souls from this fate. That’s basically the premise of Prince of Nothing, if you want to see a practical example.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on January 25, 2023, 07:35:12 PM
You’re no longer using the “D&D” definition provided by the author. I’ve seen no evidence that Gary’s definition had changed or “developed”.

The "D&D definition provided by the author" is in the PHB (and other books). It's not what Gary wrote on a forum decades later.

That said, I'll freely admit I do ignore some parts of what Gary wrote even back then. I've always felt alignment languages were beyond stupid, for example, since we're arguing about alignment...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 25, 2023, 09:10:34 PM
Gary was the one who made the comparison by quoting a real genocidal lunatic.

Except the saying predates your source. If Hitler said "might makes right," I could also say it, and I wouldn't be 'quoting Hitler.'

The orc babies argument is ancient. If you want to avoid the umpteenth time it's brought up and comparisons to real life genocide, then maybe redesign orcs so they don't have babies? 40k orks and 13th Age orcs are a good example of how you can do this.

Or I could discuss interesting, adult philosophical quandaries with other adults, without worrying about triggering the perpetually offended.

Sanitizing art so as not to offend isn't something I'd personally shoot for.


And even if it did, the act of taking children from their native culture and educating them in a radically different culture and belief system, however superior or beneficial you think that culture, is also considered to be a grave moral evil by the people objecting to the "evil race" trope. So there really isn't any way to answer that particular complaint, at least not from within its own philosophy.

Oh they do have an answer, you can see it above. Avoid any moral complexity that makes you uncomfortable.


So Tolkien felt that orcs could be redeemed, and it's clear that this is a reflection of his own real-world values.

You're digging deep in to the meta, while it's not needed from a lore POV.

Tolkiens Orcs are Elves that were twisted by a powerful entity. It makes sense that they have the capability to reform, at least to some degree.

D&D Orcs were hand crafter by an Evil god, to reflect his evil in their every deed, and said evil god works constantly to make sure that they maximise the evil they do.

It's the difference between killing starving people raiding your farm, that would leave you alone if they weren't starving; vs killing locusts that strip your farm every year, and always will.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 25, 2023, 09:27:28 PM
Tolkiens Orcs are Elves that were twisted by a powerful entity. It makes sense that they have the capability to reform, at least to some degree.

This was never definitively settled by Tolkien.

Quote
D&D Orcs were hand crafter by an Evil god, to reflect his evil in their every deed, and said evil god works constantly to make sure that they maximise the evil they do.

The first instance of a creation story for orcs in D&D that I'm aware of was the article in Dragon magazine, where the Orcs were cheated by the other gods for a place to live, and Grummush created a space for them, and swore revenge for their deceit and treachery.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 25, 2023, 09:55:12 PM
Tolkiens Orcs are Elves that were twisted by a powerful entity. It makes sense that they have the capability to reform, at least to some degree.

This was never definitively settled by Tolkien.

Quote
D&D Orcs were hand crafter by an Evil god, to reflect his evil in their every deed, and said evil god works constantly to make sure that they maximise the evil they do.

The first instance of a creation story for orcs in D&D that I'm aware of was the article in Dragon magazine, where the Orcs were cheated by the other gods for a place to live, and Grummush created a space for them, and swore revenge for their deceit and treachery.

Almost every explanation Tolkien had for the origin of his Orcs involved twisting an existing creature, be it Elf, Man or beast. Hence the oft used "Evil cannot create..."

My point stands even if they weren't twisted Elves...which they totally were. :P


As for D&D Orcs, you're talking about Dragon #62. In it they're referred to as his people before he declared they'd live wherever they wanted (bringing destruction.) They're not foundlings he finds a home for.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 25, 2023, 10:11:36 PM
The orc babies argument is ancient. If you want to avoid the umpteenth time it's brought up and comparisons to real life genocide, then maybe redesign orcs so they don't have babies? 40k orks and 13th Age orcs are a good example of how you can do this.

Or I could discuss interesting, adult philosophical quandaries with other adults, without worrying about triggering the perpetually offended.

Sanitizing art so as not to offend isn't something I'd personally shoot for.
[a group is playing a game of D&D]
GM: You find a room full of orc babies lying defenseless in their cribs.
Paladin's Player: I move from crib to crib, slaughtering each baby orc in turn.
Rest of the group: Dude, what the fuck is wrong with you?!
Paladin's Player: They're evil! I'm just roleplaying what my character would do!


Deliberately setting out to avoid situations like that is "sanitizing art"? The above situation is deliberately offensive caricature, not art. I would never want to play with people who would want to play that seriously. Anyone who wants to play something like that is fucking insane, full stop. I expect that kind of idiotic genocide apologism shit from CalArt tumblr sjw cartoons, not fantasy books by sane people!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on January 25, 2023, 10:27:16 PM
Quote from: Gygax
"It is therefore possible for a Paladin to, in fact, actually perform a ‘mercy killing’ such as the inquiring player asked about, provided the tenets of his or her theology permitted it. While unlikely, it is possible.”
It's clear to me that Gygax is engaging in a thought experiment based on someone's query.
One used to be able to do that on the internet without having some woke moron attributed some sort of horrible character flaw to you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 25, 2023, 10:28:46 PM
...idiotic genocide apologism shit...

(https://makeameme.org/media/templates/tony-stark-eye-roll.jpg)

I tried critiquing your rant (for rant it was) but I don't want a flamewar, so let's just say we'll have to agree to disagree. Which no doubt makes me evil.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 25, 2023, 11:10:49 PM
So, getting back on topic, this thread is a doozie
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wir-coyote-and-crow.905053/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wir-coyote-and-crow.905053/)

Not only is there a (gushing) break down of the book (ironically revealing how nonsensical and racist it is), but the comments are golden.

I especially like when, having been informed that the perfect native cultures have seamlessly combined spirituality and science, a poster says "I kinda wish there was a conflict between spirituality and science since that sounds like an interesting theme to centre a game around. But i understand it doesn't fit what they were going for here."

In post #17, Moritz replies to him with "No, the book makes it implicit that as a non-European setting, there is no such conflict."

(https://c.tenor.com/WQwbwMrqSF0AAAAC/tenor.gif)

PS- Bonus points for where the lore states they have 99% effective birth control, but also trumpets they have abortions for all.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 25, 2023, 11:31:50 PM
The orc babies argument is ancient. If you want to avoid the umpteenth time it's brought up and comparisons to real life genocide, then maybe redesign orcs so they don't have babies? 40k orks and 13th Age orcs are a good example of how you can do this.

Or I could discuss interesting, adult philosophical quandaries with other adults, without worrying about triggering the perpetually offended.

Sanitizing art so as not to offend isn't something I'd personally shoot for.
[a group is playing a game of D&D]
GM: You find a room full of orc babies lying defenseless in their cribs.
Paladin's Player: I move from crib to crib, slaughtering each baby orc in turn.
Rest of the group: Dude, what the fuck is wrong with you?!
Paladin's Player: They're evil! I'm just roleplaying what my character would do!


Deliberately setting out to avoid situations like that is "sanitizing art"? The above situation is deliberately offensive caricature, not art. I would never want to play with people who would want to play that seriously. Anyone who wants to play something like that is fucking insane, full stop. I expect that kind of idiotic genocide apologism shit from CalArt tumblr sjw cartoons, not fantasy books by sane people!
That situation with the orc babies in cribs is a deliberate set up.

However, tone down the caricature nature with of the presentation. Your party has just killed all the males of the orc tribe that was raiding the hamlets in the borderlands. The females and children move aside as you loot the cave complex, but take no other action. Your party leaves, and the remaining members of the tribe die due to deprivation, attacks by nearby goblin tribes, etc. In 3 weeks all of the orc women and children are just as dead. What would you expect your players do? Basically adopt the 20-30 orc non-combatants as their charges? Be responsible for providing them with food, clothing and shelter, along with some education as to how to be a farmer or tradesman? Is that what your players want to do the next 3 sessions until they quit the game out of boredom. Alternatively, do they attempt to get the nearby hamlets to take them in after losing their own family members to the orc tribe? Can the hamlet that’s barely surviving even afford to take in hungry mouths? Take them to the capitol city several weeks away? Whose to say who will take them in there? Why are they the city’s responsibility, and not that of the party?

On the other hand, if orcs are viewed as being no different in morality than the xenomorphs from Alien, there’s no problem in killing the orc babies, just as there is nobody who gets upset at idea of setting on fire a bunch of xenomorph face huggers. That is nobody sane is going to object to setting the xenomorphs on fire. Some nutcase will object to doing so on grounds of discrimination on the basis of species.

I’ve run games where the orcs have no more sense of morality than a xenomorph. Other tables play them thousands of different ways. Each table should be able to play what’s right for their table without getting judged as morally reprobate just because the morality of the setting at their table doesn’t align with current morality.

I won’t say it’s impossible for a table to be immoral. The NuTSR Star Frontiers is just a white supremacist sci-fi “game” made by awful people, for awful people. But for me to get morally outraged there has to be more “there” there than “what about the orc babies?” In a Shadowrun setting, killing the orc babies would be an evil act. In a pseudo-medieval fantasy setting where the orcs are monsters - maybe not an evil act to kill any orc you find.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 25, 2023, 11:38:08 PM
So, getting back on topic, this thread is a doozie
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wir-coyote-and-crow.905053/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wir-coyote-and-crow.905053/)

Not only is there a (gushing) break down of the book (ironically revealing how nonsensical and racist it is), but the comments are golden.

I especially like when, having been informed that the perfect native cultures have seamlessly combined spirituality and science, a poster says "I kinda wish there was a conflict between spirituality and science since that sounds like an interesting theme to centre a game around. But i understand it doesn't fit what they were going for here."

In post #17, Moritz replies to him with "No, the book makes it implicit that as a non-European setting, there is no such conflict."

(https://c.tenor.com/WQwbwMrqSF0AAAAC/tenor.gif)

PS- Bonus points for where the lore states they have 99% effective birth control, but also trumpets they have abortions for all.

Coyote and Crow sounds more and more like a 2023 woke activist's version of an alternate "history" for native americans, and less of an RPG setting.
I mean, more power to 'em if they can find people to buy it. But this is sounds all "Without the white devils to corrupt them, the indigenous people made a socialist, progressive heaven on earth. Now roll some dice."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 26, 2023, 01:03:50 AM
The easy solution, is of course to make the orc lair a forward military outpost with no women and children present.  If you put a room full of orc babies in cribs an encounter you're already commenting on the argument.  Well, unless of course, orc babies are vicious and mobile and deadlier than a giant rat and the orcs keep them in individual cages to keep the death rate down.  What were we talking about again?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on January 26, 2023, 02:18:30 AM
Gary was the one who made the comparison by quoting a real genocidal lunatic.

Except the saying predates your source. If Hitler said "might makes right," I could also say it, and I wouldn't be 'quoting Hitler.'

In this case, though, it's the *content* of the saying that is horrific. It is not a random quotation. The earlier origin of the phrase was supposedly what English soldiers said when killing Irish children in the 1680s, which isn't any better. cf.

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/02/11/nits/

In the U.S., it became famous in the 1860s by John Chivington's use of it in a public speech shortly before the Sand Creek Massacre. "Damn any man who sympathizes with Indians! ... I have come to kill Indians, and believe it is right and honorable to use any means under God's heaven to kill Indians. ... Kill and scalp all, big and little; nits make lice."

The origin of the phrase for killing Irish children doesn't redeem the phrase from its use in killing Native American children. It just exposes it as more awful.


So Tolkien felt that orcs could be redeemed, and it's clear that this is a reflection of his own real-world values.

You're digging deep in to the meta, while it's not needed from a lore POV.

Tolkiens Orcs are Elves that were twisted by a powerful entity. It makes sense that they have the capability to reform, at least to some degree.

D&D Orcs were hand crafter by an Evil god, to reflect his evil in their every deed, and said evil god works constantly to make sure that they maximise the evil they do.

It's the difference between killing starving people raiding your farm, that would leave you alone if they weren't starving; vs killing locusts that strip your farm every year, and always will.

As I understand it, the topic is about the real-world lessons of alignment and race -- which is by definition meta. It is possible to set up a game world where it is canonically good and righteous to go around killing orc children. Such a game-world could be logically consistent and playable. However, many players would not be comfortable with that - because that isn't what is good in the real world.

Tolkien considered the real-world implications of his writing to be important, and plenty of people have found inspiration and meaning in his writing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 26, 2023, 04:28:57 AM
The orc babies argument is ancient. If you want to avoid the umpteenth time it's brought up and comparisons to real life genocide, then maybe redesign orcs so they don't have babies? 40k orks and 13th Age orcs are a good example of how you can do this.

Or I could discuss interesting, adult philosophical quandaries with other adults, without worrying about triggering the perpetually offended.

Sanitizing art so as not to offend isn't something I'd personally shoot for.
[a group is playing a game of D&D]
GM: You find a room full of orc babies lying defenseless in their cribs.
Paladin's Player: I move from crib to crib, slaughtering each baby orc in turn.
Rest of the group: Dude, what the fuck is wrong with you?!
Paladin's Player: They're evil! I'm just roleplaying what my character would do!


Deliberately setting out to avoid situations like that is "sanitizing art"? The above situation is deliberately offensive caricature, not art. I would never want to play with people who would want to play that seriously. Anyone who wants to play something like that is fucking insane, full stop. I expect that kind of idiotic genocide apologism shit from CalArt tumblr sjw cartoons, not fantasy books by sane people!
That situation with the orc babies in cribs is a deliberate set up.

However, tone down the caricature nature with of the presentation. Your party has just killed all the males of the orc tribe that was raiding the hamlets in the borderlands. The females and children move aside as you loot the cave complex, but take no other action. Your party leaves, and the remaining members of the tribe die due to deprivation, attacks by nearby goblin tribes, etc. In 3 weeks all of the orc women and children are just as dead. What would you expect your players do? Basically adopt the 20-30 orc non-combatants as their charges? Be responsible for providing them with food, clothing and shelter, along with some education as to how to be a farmer or tradesman? Is that what your players want to do the next 3 sessions until they quit the game out of boredom. Alternatively, do they attempt to get the nearby hamlets to take them in after losing their own family members to the orc tribe? Can the hamlet that’s barely surviving even afford to take in hungry mouths? Take them to the capitol city several weeks away? Whose to say who will take them in there? Why are they the city’s responsibility, and not that of the party?

On the other hand, if orcs are viewed as being no different in morality than the xenomorphs from Alien, there’s no problem in killing the orc babies, just as there is nobody who gets upset at idea of setting on fire a bunch of xenomorph face huggers. That is nobody sane is going to object to setting the xenomorphs on fire. Some nutcase will object to doing so on grounds of discrimination on the basis of species.

I’ve run games where the orcs have no more sense of morality than a xenomorph. Other tables play them thousands of different ways. Each table should be able to play what’s right for their table without getting judged as morally reprobate just because the morality of the setting at their table doesn’t align with current morality.

I won’t say it’s impossible for a table to be immoral. The NuTSR Star Frontiers is just a white supremacist sci-fi “game” made by awful people, for awful people. But for me to get morally outraged there has to be more “there” there than “what about the orc babies?” In a Shadowrun setting, killing the orc babies would be an evil act. In a pseudo-medieval fantasy setting where the orcs are monsters - maybe not an evil act to kill any orc you find.

Greetings!

Excellent analysis, WMarshal! I agree entirely. Your commentary captures my own thoughts well on this kind of "Game Quandary". I think people that frame such a scenario as the conquerors being evil and insane--or otherwise also painting the character's *players* as being such--are being intellectually dishonest, or at least very simplistic. This whole scenario may or may not hold zero moral implications whatsoever. It all depends precisely on the DM, and the context of the DM's fantasy world. I.e, how are Orcs and Orc culture, such as it may be, presented in general, certainly by the civilized human cultures?

In some worlds, Orcs are a primitive tribal culture that nonetheless aspires to some kind of recognizable moral agency and philosophy, more or less similar to that of humans. In other campaign worlds, Orcs are more like tribal groups of evil, bestial locusts.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 26, 2023, 06:29:39 AM
So now people are digging up Gary Gygax messageboard posts from almost 20 years ago and GETTING OFFENDED? Jesus Christ, get a fucking life, losers.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on January 26, 2023, 08:26:25 AM
So, getting back on topic, this thread is a doozie
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wir-coyote-and-crow.905053/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/wir-coyote-and-crow.905053/)

Not only is there a (gushing) break down of the book (ironically revealing how nonsensical and racist it is), but the comments are golden.

I especially like when, having been informed that the perfect native cultures have seamlessly combined spirituality and science, a poster says "I kinda wish there was a conflict between spirituality and science since that sounds like an interesting theme to centre a game around. But i understand it doesn't fit what they were going for here."

In post #17, Moritz replies to him with "No, the book makes it implicit that as a non-European setting, there is no such conflict."

(https://c.tenor.com/WQwbwMrqSF0AAAAC/tenor.gif)

PS- Bonus points for where the lore states they have 99% effective birth control, but also trumpets they have abortions for all.

Don't even have to click the link to know what that thread would be like. I made the mistake of trying to read Coyote and Crow. It's just someone's masturbatory alt-history bullshit. The thing that's saddest is "A future where, for whatever reason, Europe never came to the Americas and they developed in their own direction"? That could be an interesting premise. But instead they had to go all Wakanda-y on it.

Worse, they went all Rodenberry on it. I say worse, but specifically I mean worse from an RPG perspective. Roddenberry, despite the lasting power of Star Trek, was rather infamous for trying to make Star Trek into a setting that didn't work for human drama, and the writers had to fight him constantly over it. Similarly, certain settings don't lend themselves well for an RPG setting, for whatever reason. I love Tolkien, but I've always felt Middle Earth is too "closed" to really work well for an RPG. I adore Eclipse Phase conceptually, but it's so gonzo and changes so many assumptions about the way things have to be approached that it's very hard to find players and GMs compatible with it. And so on. Coyote and Crow is sort of the same... There's not a good sense of "Okay, now, what do I do with this?" to make a good game out of it. Once you get past every other thought being "We're not European, therefor we're FUCKING AWESOME AND PERFECT!", there's... just a rather lackluster, boring setting with little in the way of hooks or interest.

It's sorta like the Sword Lesbians RPG. Once you get past the "QUIRKY CAL-ART LESBIANS!!!1!1!" thing, there's not much there that hasn't been done before, and better.

Or, like Ratman said...

I mean, more power to 'em if they can find people to buy it. But this is sounds all "Without the white devils to corrupt them, the indigenous people made a socialist, progressive heaven on earth. Now roll some dice."

I'm somehow reminded of a college course I took (and somehow, got actual credit for) back in the early 00's... It was supposed to be on the history of the Grail myth. It... Well, that would be a very kind description of it. It was basically some burned-out hippy who had no business even teaching children, much less adults, standing up and telling us his revisionist fanfic version of history, in between having us get up and play-act and walking us through sanitised wiccan rituals. I would have dropped the class, but it was too late to get any money back, credits were credits...

Anyways, his contention that before the people of the "Wind and the Sword" came, the native Celtic people were egalitarians who had absolutely no gender roles, lots of female warriors and warrior queens... but were also pacifists who never fought, until the people of the "Wind and the Sword" came and brought war to them.  ::)

We didn't even have a textbook... He had a book, and he would xerox pages for us every class. That was a wild class.

So now people are digging up Gary Gygax messageboard posts from almost 20 years ago and GETTING OFFENDED? Jesus Christ, get a fucking life, losers.

I can't speak to what the purple chucklefucks think. I'm certainly not offended. I'm a fucking roleplayer, arguing over stupid shit is about 17% of why I love this hobby.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 26, 2023, 09:19:04 AM
^^^^ Well, that tracks, don't it. Identity is about "being" something. Drama is about "doing" something.

Remove some major factions (filthy Euros!) and solve all the local problems, and what is left to do?

I suppose you could play a party of enlightened commissars that travel the countryside clearing up misunderstandings about the state doctrine and occasionally reeducating some lazy peasants.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 26, 2023, 10:13:17 AM
The orc babies argument is ancient. If you want to avoid the umpteenth time it's brought up and comparisons to real life genocide, then maybe redesign orcs so they don't have babies? 40k orks and 13th Age orcs are a good example of how you can do this.

Or I could discuss interesting, adult philosophical quandaries with other adults, without worrying about triggering the perpetually offended.

Sanitizing art so as not to offend isn't something I'd personally shoot for.
[a group is playing a game of D&D]
GM: You find a room full of orc babies lying defenseless in their cribs.
Paladin's Player: I move from crib to crib, slaughtering each baby orc in turn.
Rest of the group: Dude, what the fuck is wrong with you?!
Paladin's Player: They're evil! I'm just roleplaying what my character would do!


Deliberately setting out to avoid situations like that is "sanitizing art"? The above situation is deliberately offensive caricature, not art. I would never want to play with people who would want to play that seriously. Anyone who wants to play something like that is fucking insane, full stop. I expect that kind of idiotic genocide apologism shit from CalArt tumblr sjw cartoons, not fantasy books by sane people!
That situation with the orc babies in cribs is a deliberate set up.

However, tone down the caricature nature with of the presentation. Your party has just killed all the males of the orc tribe that was raiding the hamlets in the borderlands. The females and children move aside as you loot the cave complex, but take no other action. Your party leaves, and the remaining members of the tribe die due to deprivation, attacks by nearby goblin tribes, etc. In 3 weeks all of the orc women and children are just as dead. What would you expect your players do? Basically adopt the 20-30 orc non-combatants as their charges? Be responsible for providing them with food, clothing and shelter, along with some education as to how to be a farmer or tradesman? Is that what your players want to do the next 3 sessions until they quit the game out of boredom. Alternatively, do they attempt to get the nearby hamlets to take them in after losing their own family members to the orc tribe? Can the hamlet that’s barely surviving even afford to take in hungry mouths? Take them to the capitol city several weeks away? Whose to say who will take them in there? Why are they the city’s responsibility, and not that of the party?

On the other hand, if orcs are viewed as being no different in morality than the xenomorphs from Alien, there’s no problem in killing the orc babies, just as there is nobody who gets upset at idea of setting on fire a bunch of xenomorph face huggers. That is nobody sane is going to object to setting the xenomorphs on fire. Some nutcase will object to doing so on grounds of discrimination on the basis of species.

I’ve run games where the orcs have no more sense of morality than a xenomorph. Other tables play them thousands of different ways. Each table should be able to play what’s right for their table without getting judged as morally reprobate just because the morality of the setting at their table doesn’t align with current morality.

I won’t say it’s impossible for a table to be immoral. The NuTSR Star Frontiers is just a white supremacist sci-fi “game” made by awful people, for awful people. But for me to get morally outraged there has to be more “there” there than “what about the orc babies?” In a Shadowrun setting, killing the orc babies would be an evil act. In a pseudo-medieval fantasy setting where the orcs are monsters - maybe not an evil act to kill any orc you find.
Indeed.

My point is that people don't seem to understand what they're arguing for when they say "orcs should have babies". Or if they have some idea of baby orcs as being no different from alien chestbursters, then they don't seem to understand others can't read their minds. There's an unspoken assumption by most players and GMs that humanoids operate like humans unless stated otherwise. That includes things like giving birth to tiny defenseless offspring that must be cared for like human babies are. That's why the "what do we do with the baby orcs/goblins/whatever?" is even a recurring argument in D&D fandom.

Obviously, most groups don't want to involve orc non-combatants in the first place, so the argument that they should is just pointless status quo-defending contrarianism. Orcs (and other humanoids) don't need non-combatants because they're irrelevant and raise unnecessary moral questions. Ergo, the most efficient thing to do is state that non-combatants don't exist. This shouldn't be a controversial statement, but somehow it is.

I'm going to share an example from my own worldbuilding brainstorming. I use both the generic evil orcs and the non-evil orcs in my setting. They're cousin species, but they look, behave, and reproduce very differently. The evil orcs look hideous and misshapen, they're programmed to be evil and obedient, come in several distinct forms, and they're "born" in alchemical spawning pits created by the evil overlord (use the statistics for all goblinoids, including orcs, to represent them). The non-evil orcs look like attractive athletic green-skinned human beings with tusks and pointed ears, and are basically human in all ways that matter (use the half-orc stats rather than inventing a new race). The non-evil orcs are the result of a failed experiment to create more efficient orcs, but they failed only in one respect: they were too independent and empathetic, so they rebelled against the evil overlord.

This lets me have my cake and eat it too. I have evil orcs that are perfectly okay to slaughter by the truckload with no moral quandary, and I have non-evil orcs that are people with only a mildly creepy backstory. This sort of solution shouldn't be controversial.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 26, 2023, 10:32:23 AM
I'm going to share an example from my own worldbuilding brainstorming. I use both the generic evil orcs and the non-evil orcs in my setting. They're cousin species, but they look, behave, and reproduce very differently. The evil orcs look hideous and misshapen, they're programmed to be evil and obedient, come in several distinct forms, and they're "born" in alchemical spawning pits created by the evil overlord (use the statistics for all goblinoids, including orcs, to represent them). The non-evil orcs look like attractive athletic green-skinned human beings with tusks and pointed ears, and are basically human in all ways that matter (use the half-orc stats rather than inventing a new race). The non-evil orcs are the result of a failed experiment to create more efficient orcs, but they failed only in one respect: they were too independent and empathetic, so they rebelled against the evil overlord.

This lets me have my cake and eat it too. I have evil orcs that are perfectly okay to slaughter by the truckload with no moral quandary, and I have non-evil orcs that are people with only a mildly creepy backstory. This sort of solution shouldn't be controversial.
What's the point of this? You have 2 totally different races both called orcs. What makes them both orcs? They fact that they are green?

They're programmed. So what? Maybe they can be reprogrammed and therefore saved.

It seems like it's a lot of dressing up to camouflage the morality issue.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on January 26, 2023, 10:46:38 AM
Quote from: Bruwulf
That's Lawful. It isn't Good. Lawful Good requires both elements. There's a reason they are two separate axis. Hell, paladins are a class that is basically objective, metaphysical Good incarnate, and can sense objective, metaphysical evil... despite their alignment restrictions, they don't really have any law/chaos powers. If anything, the "good" element should be more important than the "lawful" element. Otherwise, you get... Well. Bluntly, you get the stereotype of the "lawful asshole" Paladin, which seems to be what Gary is supporting.

Hey, look, he's the grandfather of our hobby, I'm not trying to vilify him, just saying... on this point, I disagree with his interpretation.

Considering that originally there was only Law/Chaos axis in D&D, I'd say for Gygax law/chaos was more important of two.
And of course Paladins are not Good incarnate - they are Good mixed with Law - class that would be Good incarnate would have to be NG.

Quote
Because D&D. Because Paladins are literally able to sense evil. "Because church and state say so" is less of an authority than "Holy shit, that hurts to look at" or "Hey, why did my magic sword of Goodliness stop working for me?".

And why you assume Cosmic Force of Good in D&D Multiverse will agree with your moral stances about what's Good and what's Evil. What if GOOD, cosmic GOOD that's above even Good deities is perfectly fine with violent eradication of Evil?

[quote="BoxCrayon]It doesn’t matter. While the killer might go to hell, his victims still go to heaven. That’s a worthy sacrifice for the greater good. “I will damn myself to hell by killing all 8 billion human beings, if it means enough of them go to heaven in my place and the countless souls of the future unborn never have to worry about sinning.”[/quote]

Only if one is utilitarian.
But the thing is in abrahamic religion God is kinda vehemently anti-utilitarian so trying to circumvent objective morality will end badly. You trick Omniscient beings on your own risk.
In other words - if you believe in Abrahamic God - you will know that trick would fail.

Quote
This is a fundamental problem with any kind of morality that allows for the existence of any Greater Good. It inevitably results in the ends consuming the means.

I’m just speaking purely from a logical perspective. The logic checks out, even if humans and gods alike refuse to acknowledge it.

No it does not. Because you added unconsciously axiom of utilitarian morality - which is not objective empiric truth but like... your assumption dude.
Meanwhile Salvation of Many is not more important or greater good than Salvation of One. Keep those Vulcan superstitions out of it.



Quote
Realistically speaking, every setting which has eternal damnation would eventually inspire an interplanetary crusade to exterminate all life to save their souls from this fate

No it wouldn't. Amount of radicals that would sacrifice own souls to eternal torment for that is like negligible. There would be no crusades, because most fanatic enough people would be on God side in damning sinners and be OK with it.

Quote
I suppose you could play a party of enlightened commissars that travel the countryside clearing up misunderstandings about the state doctrine and occasionally reeducating some lazy peasants.

From TBP thread it seems there are more options for conflict - weird mutated things, there are mentioned wars and armies arranged by Sheriffs and so on.
But all this gender-marriage stuff - BLAH.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 26, 2023, 10:49:38 AM
You cannot escape moral problems no matter how you dress it up.

The party gets attacked by feral dogs. As we all know, dogs are normally intelligent and loving. Does the party slay the dogs or capture them and reform them? I've never seen a party do anything other than kill or flee the dogs. One PC found the lair once and took a puppy to raise as a war dog. This runs complete counter to modern morality, but it's accepted in game.

Rats! Rats are highly intelligent and social animals, but they are the clichéd bread and butter source of XP for level 1 PCs. Go kill the rats in my cellar! It's implied that you kill any baby rats, too. Again, a moral dilemma if slaying intelligent and social creatures minding their own business is evil.

How are orcs different? They look vaguely human? They have language? Maybe they're easier to empathize with because of that. I don't think that makes the moral question any different from killing a dog.

If you're playing a game with combat and killing, I think you just have to accept that the characters are going to do some sketchy shit that would be totally unacceptable today. Dressing stuff up to make the killing more palatable is just fooling yourself.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on January 26, 2023, 11:02:03 AM
Considering that originally there was only Law/Chaos axis in D&D, I'd say for Gygax law/chaos was more important of two.
And of course Paladins are not Good incarnate - they are Good mixed with Law - class that would be Good incarnate would have to be NG.

But by the time of Paladins in 1E, it was clearly not. Case in point: Violating the law/chaos restriction was redeemable, violating the good/evil axis wasn't.

If they ever
knowingly perform an act which is chaotic in nature, they must seek a high
level (7th or above) cleric of lawful good alignment, confess their sin, and do
penance as prescribed by the cleric. If a paladin should ever knowingly and
willingly perform an evil act, he or she loses the status of paladinhood
immediately and irrevocably. All benefits are then lost, and no deed or
magic can restore the character to paladinhood; he or she is everafter a
fighter.


And that's the only mention of the law/chaos axis, mechanically, for the Paladin outside of the alignment requirement itself. All the other powers and abilities relate to the good/evil axis.

Quote
And why you assume Cosmic Force of Good in D&D Multiverse will agree with your moral stances about what's Good and what's Evil. What if GOOD, cosmic GOOD that's above even Good deities is perfectly fine with violent eradication of Evil?

And if my grandmother had wheels, she would be a wagon.

The book is written by and for 20th century western humans, using 20th century English. If you want to write a book that has a "lawful good" god behaving in ways that don't align with a common understanding of the word "good", you better be damned clear on that, right up front, in the core text.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 26, 2023, 11:05:18 AM
Remember, we’d all be banned as super Nazis for even engaging in this conversation at TBP.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 26, 2023, 11:12:09 AM
So now the conversation has devolved into a semantics debate about trying to shoehorn a fictional Law-Chaos/Good-Evil system into real-world morality...just for reference, I remember reading this stuff when I first went to college on Usenet, so I guess some stupid ass crap just never does truly die.

Also, the irony of people calling for the literal death of "white male Nazis" while lamenting about the fictional death of creatures designed to be killed because they're objectively evil is like, I dunno, overwhelming or something.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on January 26, 2023, 11:28:45 AM
So now the conversation has devolved into a semantics debate about trying to shoehorn a fictional Law-Chaos/Good-Evil system into real-world morality...just for reference, I remember reading this stuff when I first went to college on Usenet, so I guess some stupid ass crap just never does truly die.

I'd make some joke about "Hi, are you new to this hobby?", but it's trite. So instead I'll be even more groan-worthy and go all meta about making the joke.

At any given point in time, somewhere, someone is arguing about alignment in D&D. It's just one of those things.

Also, the irony of people calling for the literal death of "white male Nazis" while lamenting about the fictional death of creatures designed to be killed because they're objectively evil is like, I dunno, overwhelming or something.

But orcs are black people. For... reasons. Except when they're mongolians, or mexicans, or native americans. And elves are native americans, except when they're Japanese or Chinese or Celtic.

Surprisingly, hobbits  are not fair game to kill, despite being the one race in D&D that actually is pretty much explicitly modeled after a real-world people, that being rural white brits.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on January 26, 2023, 11:30:39 AM
An insight I had reading the racism thread on TBP: Based on their criteria, Tolkienian orcs are white people--helpless victims of a diabolical system ("white supremacy") that forces them into evil, which they cannot be extracted from, and which makes them both pitiable and dangerous.

 ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 26, 2023, 11:38:08 AM
You cannot escape moral problems no matter how you dress it up.

The party gets attacked by feral dogs. As we all know, dogs are normally intelligent and loving. Does the party slay the dogs or capture them and reform them? I've never seen a party do anything other than kill or flee the dogs. One PC found the lair once and took a puppy to raise as a war dog. This runs complete counter to modern morality, but it's accepted in game.

Rats! Rats are highly intelligent and social animals, but they are the clichéd bread and butter source of XP for level 1 PCs. Go kill the rats in my cellar! It's implied that you kill any baby rats, too. Again, a moral dilemma if slaying intelligent and social creatures minding their own business is evil.

How are orcs different? They look vaguely human? They have language? Maybe they're easier to empathize with because of that. I don't think that makes the moral question any different from killing a dog.

If you're playing a game with combat and killing, I think you just have to accept that the characters are going to do some sketchy shit that would be totally unacceptable today. Dressing stuff up to make the killing more palatable is just fooling yourself.
Okay. Then why make orcs inherently evil in the first place? Why not make a joke (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag_AFraxj-4) about how the nameless henchmen have families waiting at home when the hero kills them? Why not play murderhobos?

The reason why orcs exist and humans aren't used instead is because 1) D&D is founded on cargo culting fantasy authors like Tolkien and 2) players delusionally want to be able to kill fictional people guilt-free (http://dmsworkshop.com/2021/04/03/evil-orcs/) because moral dilemmas aren't fun. Oh, human bandits exist and the players scalp them (https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Bandit_Scalp) with impunity? That doesn't invalidate my point, it just shows that players are irrational and hypocritical.

Ultimately, these are elfgames created to be played for entertainment. All other considerations are trivial.

An insight I had reading the racism thread on TBP: Based on their criteria, Tolkienian orcs are white people--helpless victims of a diabolical system ("white supremacy") that forces them into evil, which they cannot be extracted from, and which makes them both pitiable and dangerous.

 ;D
Yup. Indeed, you can say this about any evil humanoid race.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on January 26, 2023, 12:10:24 PM
I’ve run games where the orcs have no more sense of morality than a xenomorph. Other tables play them thousands of different ways. Each table should be able to play what’s right for their table without getting judged as morally reprobate just because the morality of the setting at their table doesn’t align with current morality.

I won’t say it’s impossible for a table to be immoral. The NuTSR Star Frontiers is just a white supremacist sci-fi “game” made by awful people, for awful people. But for me to get morally outraged there has to be more “there” there than “what about the orc babies?” In a Shadowrun setting, killing the orc babies would be an evil act. In a pseudo-medieval fantasy setting where the orcs are monsters - maybe not an evil act to kill any orc you find.

I would agree about not judging the morality of people who play D&D, unless one is playing with them. RPGs are highly personalized.

But then, the same applies to the morality of people playing Coyote & Crow. These are just games, after all.

It's possible to judge the content of the game itself, by looking at what the author wrote and their intent. People playing the game aren't identical to the game's author, though.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 26, 2023, 12:13:44 PM
Okay. Then why make orcs inherently evil in the first place? Why not make a joke (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag_AFraxj-4) about how the nameless henchmen have families waiting at home when the hero kills them? Why not play murderhobos?

The reason why orcs exist and humans aren't used instead is because 1) D&D is founded on cargo culting fantasy authors like Tolkien and 2) players delusionally want to be able to kill fictional people guilt-free (http://dmsworkshop.com/2021/04/03/evil-orcs/) because moral dilemmas aren't fun. Oh, human bandits exist and the players scalp them (https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Bandit_Scalp) with impunity? That doesn't invalidate my point, it just shows that players are irrational and hypocritical.

Ultimately, these are elfgames created to be played for entertainment. All other considerations are trivial.

Yeah, these are good questions and it gets to the heart of why play these games in the first place.

At one end of the spectrum, we have irredeemably evil foes, like evil orcs and zombies, and players can slaughter them without guilt. This is "fun" mode, like playing a bullet hell shooter.

At the other end, we have moral issues popping up all over the place with bandit camps with starving wives and kids, orcs that can be good and have culture, song, and art, and beholders that enjoy Shakespeare, I dunno. Going into a dungeon is like committing a home invasion.

If you want fun instead of moral dilemmas, then evil monsters are important. The reason they are evil doesn't matter. Spawn pits, minions of an evil god, all work.

I have no problems with moral dilemmas coming up, though I don't structure campaigns around that. I think they are unavoidable unless you stick to mowing down a horde of zombies. Have your PCs ever taken a prisoner? Even if it's a totally 100% irredeemable evil monster, most tables will have a 10 minute argument about what to do with the guy.

The further you go towards adventures that raise moral issues, the further you need to get into the mindset of the character. "It's what my character would do" is only a dick thing to say if the table has different expectations.

DCC deals with this by sticking to PG-13. I heard one of their authors talk about revising an NPC to make her not pregnant because of the potential for evil shit to happen. It's like the A-Team where bad guys fly back when shot and there's no blood and the heroes only ever get knocked out and tied up. Then you have LotFP where 666 animated corpses of children attack you before breakfast. These are both fun in their own way. You gotta treat the latter as horror movie fun.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 26, 2023, 12:18:04 PM
That doesn't invalidate my point, it just shows that players are irrational and hypocritical.

I made a massive post laying out step by step the flaws in your logic, but frankly if you're not having them pointed out regularly by others you must be humoured by the community, so I deleted it.

Suffice to say I find you extremely emotion driven, and you ascribe flaws to others that you yourself often project.

The two types of Orcs idea addresses a problem that doesn't exist, and utterly fails to solve that non-existing problem. You seem to fundamentally confuse personal opinion with objective fact.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on January 26, 2023, 12:23:27 PM
But then, the same applies to the morality of people playing Coyote & Crow. These are just games, after all.

I don't think anyone is judging the morality of anyone playing Coyote & Crow, exactly. I don't think people who read and write Mary Sue self-insert fanfics are evil, either, I just don't see the fun in it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on January 26, 2023, 12:28:02 PM
PS- Bonus points for where the lore states they have 99% effective birth control, but also trumpets they have abortions for all.

    I'm reading the thread now, and I just hit the point where the reader drops that "children are not considered fully fledged humans until after they finish breastfeeding."

     :o

    Can you say "casual infanticide," ladies and gentlemen?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 26, 2023, 12:34:33 PM
PS- Bonus points for where the lore states they have 99% effective birth control, but also trumpets they have abortions for all.

    I'm reading the thread now, and I just hit the point where the reader drops that "children are not considered fully fledged humans until after they finish breastfeeding."

     :o

    Can you say "casual infanticide," ladies and gentlemen?

"dOn'T cUlTuRaLlY cOlOnIzE tHe InDiGiNoUs, BiGoT!1! tHeY hAvE a NaTuRaL gOoDnEsS, lIkE hOw AfRiCaN aMeRiCaNs HaVe NaTuRaL rYtHm!1!"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 26, 2023, 12:41:14 PM
But then, the same applies to the morality of people playing Coyote & Crow. These are just games, after all.

I don't think anyone is judging the morality of anyone playing Coyote & Crow, exactly. I don't think people who read and write Mary Sue self-insert fanfics are evil, either, I just don't see the fun in it.

I'll damn well judge the author though.

If someone wrote an RPG world where only Europeans existed, so they'd created a technological utopia without the other races messing everything up, do you think people would be giving it praise? Do you think it would be excused as speculative fiction?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on January 26, 2023, 12:46:45 PM
Quote
And if my grandmother had wheels, she would be a wagon.

The book is written by and for 20th century western humans, using 20th century English. If you want to write a book that has a "lawful good" god behaving in ways that don't align with a common understanding of the word "good", you better be damned clear on that, right up front, in the core text.

Plot twist: there is no clear coherent common understanding of the word "good" even in modern Western world. All that's common is wishy washy feel that fall apart when examined closely.

Quote
Also, the irony of people calling for the literal death of "white male Nazis" while lamenting about the fictional death of creatures designed to be killed because they're objectively evil is like, I dunno, overwhelming or something.

Nah, it's simply matter of dunno realism within setting, versimilitude. It's not lamenting, it's dealing with cognitive disonance - and as it's not boardgame but RPG - well it's harder to just push certain things under rug. For many folk.

Quote
Surprisingly, hobbits  are not fair game to kill, despite being the one race in D&D that actually is pretty much explicitly modeled after a real-world people, that being rural white brits.

that was matter in LOTR. in Forgotten Realms hobbits hail from southern land and they seems to be modeled by Italian, Greek and maybe even West Asian peasants.

Quote
An insight I had reading the racism thread on TBP: Based on their criteria, Tolkienian orcs are white people--helpless victims of a diabolical system ("white supremacy") that forces them into evil, which they cannot be extracted from, and which makes them both pitiable and dangerous.

Satan was especially pleased with Manchester.

Quote
If you want fun instead of moral dilemmas, then evil monsters are important. The reason they are evil doesn't matter. Spawn pits, minions of an evil god, all work.

Primo, moral dilemmas are fun, and I will beat anyone claiming otherwise with a heavy oaken staff of power. Secundo, but culture shows clearly you can have absolutely normal human minions in contemporary setting you can dispatch with impunity. See: James Bond. So it's more about presentation and immediate threat. When someone is hostile you are not obliged to care about their redeemability.

Quote
DCC deals with this by sticking to PG-13. I heard one of their authors talk about revising an NPC to make her not pregnant because of the potential for evil shit to happen. It's like the A-Team where bad guys fly back when shot and there's no blood and the heroes only ever get knocked out and tied up.

I thought DCC is very brutal with eldritch magic that can fuck everything up in immense way.


Quote
    I'm reading the thread now, and I just hit the point where the reader drops that "children are not considered fully fledged humans until after they finish breastfeeding."

     :o

    Can you say "casual infanticide," ladies and gentlemen?

Even in TBP someone was nitpicking it's terrible attitude for society that survived almost complete climatic genocide few centuries ago.


Quote
If someone wrote an RPG world where only Europeans existed, so they'd created a technological utopia without the other races messing everything up, do you think people would be giving it praise? Do you think it would be excused as speculative fiction?

I'm not sure if it's presented right as utopia - for instance Council of this Megalopolis is described as corrupt politicians, and while they are advanced in some areas they are primitive in others (not that it's coherent.)

But tbh I have no beef with general alt-hist from folk who as community were conquered and reduced to small sad remnants about how it all would be better if they were not conquered.
It's not about race per se - there is plenty alt-hist stories in Poland when Poland is superpower because it managed to stop threat from Russia and Germany either before WW2 or even avoid partitions and now everything is better. That's not racism - that's natural impulse of conquered people to believe that everything would be way better if they were not conquered. Not to mention depopulated by very viral smallpox from Europe.

For all specific dumbness in this setting - general gist is fine.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 26, 2023, 12:56:08 PM
But tbh I have no beef with general alt-hist from folk who as community were conquered and reduced to small sad remnants about how it all would be better if they were not conquered.

For all I care, they could write a dozen books about how white people dying out gave American Indians superpowers, and all of their penis' grew to double size; IF other groups were afforded the same leeway.

If we're going to live in a society where some groups are tied in linguistic and thought knots, then I damn well expect it to be universal. Make people like by what they preach.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on January 26, 2023, 01:13:31 PM
Plot twist: there is no clear coherent common understanding of the word "good" even in modern Western world. All that's common is wishy washy feel that fall apart when examined closely.

Nah. There's debate about the particulars, but there's a general consensus on broad points. Summarily executing surrendered prisoners, for example, is generally frowned on.

Note that "general consensus" doesn't mean "universal agreement". There's always outliers.

For all specific dumbness in this setting - general gist is fine.

No. If that's all it was, sure, I would agree, but it goes further. In this case I'm on Grognard's side.

For example, I've never before seen an RPG that explicitly gives - over and over again - separate rules for "native" and "non-native" players. Not characters, players.

The closest I can think is that some older RPGs (I wanna say I remember Harnmaster having this, but I don't feel like pulling the books off my shelf to look) would say something like "for roleplaying purposes, we suggest players play characters of the same gender as themselves", but even then it was never phrased as a rule. In Coyote and Crow, it's an explicit rule. Sure, you can ignore it, but it's still there.

Edit, I lied, I went and looked. Harnmaster, 1E, says, and I quote, "Role playing difficulties are best avoided if players have characters of their own gender." But, again, it's not phrased as a rule, just a suggestion.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 26, 2023, 01:22:01 PM
No. If that's all it was, sure, I would agree, but it goes further. In this case I'm on Grognard's side.

For example, I've never before seen an RPG that explicitly gives - over and over again - separate rules for "native" and "non-native" players. Not characters, players.

It gets worse when you realize that the same people that harp on and on about how D&D used to have a rule where female characters had a cap on maximum strength, and how outrageous it was; are the exact same people absolutely cool with a game that tells players they have different rules depending on their ethnicity.

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2011/09/mind_blown.gif)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 26, 2023, 01:37:53 PM
No. If that's all it was, sure, I would agree, but it goes further. In this case I'm on Grognard's side.

For example, I've never before seen an RPG that explicitly gives - over and over again - separate rules for "native" and "non-native" players. Not characters, players.

It gets worse when you realize that the same people that harp on and on about how D&D used to have a rule where female characters had a cap on maximum strength, and how outrageous it was; are the exact same people absolutely cool with a game that tells players they have different rules depending on their ethnicity.

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2011/09/mind_blown.gif)
If your moral compass is centered on identity, oppression, and privilege, this is consistent.

An identity that lacks privilege and/or is oppressed can do whatever the fuck it wants to an identity that has privilege and/or is not oppressed.

Truth and justice are relative, dummy!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on January 26, 2023, 01:50:01 PM
Quote
For all I care, they could write a dozen books about how white people dying out gave American Indians superpowers, and all of their penis' grew to double size; IF other groups were afforded the same leeway.

I mean they are but it probably will be seen as bit dumber coming from successful rich nations, not failures of the history.
It's specific scratch that works with nations that are basically at least at the moment - loosers of history.


Quote
For example, I've never before seen an RPG that explicitly gives - over and over again - separate rules for "native" and "non-native" players. Not characters, players.

I specifically wrote about specific Grognard's problem, not about overall assholish behaviour of Connor "I'm not white, trust me" O'Cheerokee.
I agree those separate rules were dumb, racist behaviour - alas that's different problem from general gist of setting.

Like you don't have to convince me this dude is a fraud and hack, and abhorent case of dumb relativism.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 26, 2023, 01:54:04 PM
TBP in general, and Zeea specifically, are drowning in the “everyone I hate is a Neo-Nazi” Kool-Aid.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-read-post-1.906691/page-53#post-24670849

The specific part is:
“Neo-Nazis and other toxic individuals were using the content quite a bit last decade and Wizards of the Coast not only did nothing, but they recruited two of them to help with the Player's Handbook and gave them credit for it. Right now, nearly the entire far-right and toxic portion of OGL users has faded into obscurity, with only Wizards of the Coast routinely having scandals for their latest racist fuckup. It is not an ongoing problem, at all.”

So a TBP staff member and moderator is calling RPGPundit and Zak S. Neo-Nazis. The latter definitely seems to have various issues, and the former is by admission a “shitlord”, but saying they are fascist white supremacist in alignment with the political ideology of the Nazi Party would seem slanderous. It’s more than just a hot take. But nobody can dare push back on those charges to even the slightest degree or they’ll catch a ban by the TBP mods.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on January 26, 2023, 01:55:13 PM
But then, the same applies to the morality of people playing Coyote & Crow. These are just games, after all.

I don't think anyone is judging the morality of anyone playing Coyote & Crow, exactly. I don't think people who read and write Mary Sue self-insert fanfics are evil, either, I just don't see the fun in it.

I'll damn well judge the author though.

If someone wrote an RPG world where only Europeans existed, so they'd created a technological utopia without the other races messing everything up, do you think people would be giving it praise? Do you think it would be excused as speculative fiction?

It's not an RPG, but I recently read Poul Anderson's _The High Crusade_, which has a related premise. It projects is that if the English in the 1300s were colonized by a high-tech alien invaders, they would just saddle up, learn the tech, and take over that conquering empire. For the glory of God and England.

That's a very obvious allegory to how other historical cultures that encountered higher-tech colonizers, and didn't fare so well.

As far as I can tell, it has been excused as speculative fiction. If it were written today, it would probably be condemned by liberals and excused by conservatives. If someone wrote a parallel story about Native Americans overcoming alien invaders, the opposite would be true.

---

I think there's a middle ground of being willing to criticize both, but also being willing to recognize value.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 26, 2023, 02:12:58 PM
But then, the same applies to the morality of people playing Coyote & Crow. These are just games, after all.

I don't think anyone is judging the morality of anyone playing Coyote & Crow, exactly. I don't think people who read and write Mary Sue self-insert fanfics are evil, either, I just don't see the fun in it.

I'll damn well judge the author though.

If someone wrote an RPG world where only Europeans existed, so they'd created a technological utopia without the other races messing everything up, do you think people would be giving it praise? Do you think it would be excused as speculative fiction?

It's not an RPG, but I recently read Poul Anderson's _The High Crusade_, which has a related premise. It projects is that if the English in the 1300s were colonized by a high-tech alien invaders, they would just saddle up, learn the tech, and take over that conquering empire. For the glory of God and England.

That's a very obvious allegory to how other historical cultures that encountered higher-tech colonizers, and didn't fare so well.

As far as I can tell, it has been excused as speculative fiction. If it were written today, it would probably be condemned by liberals and excused by conservatives. If someone wrote a parallel story about Native Americans overcoming alien invaders, the opposite would be true.

---

I think there's a middle ground of being willing to criticize both, but also being willing to recognize value.

I'd bet money you'd work your way through this crate, and only wonder why one of the apples tasted funny.

(https://www.evilenglish.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/apples_and_oranges_10_04_21_photo.jpg)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 26, 2023, 02:17:10 PM
If someone wrote an RPG world where only Europeans existed, so they'd created a technological utopia without the other races messing everything up, do you think people would be giving it praise? Do you think it would be excused as speculative fiction?

It's not an RPG, but I recently read Poul Anderson's _The High Crusade_, which has a related premise. It projects is that if the English in the 1300s were colonized by a high-tech alien invaders, they would just saddle up, learn the tech, and take over that conquering empire. For the glory of God and England.

That's a very obvious allegory to how other historical cultures that encountered higher-tech colonizers, and didn't fare so well.

As far as I can tell, it has been excused as speculative fiction. If it were written today, it would probably be condemned by liberals and excused by conservatives. If someone wrote a parallel story about Native Americans overcoming alien invaders, the opposite would be true.
Interesting. I will have to give that a read!

However, in the colonization of the Americas, aside from the ships to sail there, I don't think technology played a significant role. It was 90% the result of disease which nobody at the time understood. Countless natives died of European diseases without ever seeing a European. The other 10% was diplomacy, dumb luck, and superstition, as exemplified by Cortes and a ragged band vs. the Aztec Empire. Horses and firearms played a role, as did the cultural mindset of the Europeans, but not nearly as much as popularly thought.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on January 26, 2023, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM
If someone wrote an RPG world where only Europeans existed, so they'd created a technological utopia without the other races messing everything up, do you think people would be giving it praise? Do you think it would be excused as speculative fiction?

It's not an RPG, but I recently read Poul Anderson's _The High Crusade_, which has a related premise. It projects is that if the English in the 1300s were colonized by a high-tech alien invaders, they would just saddle up, learn the tech, and take over that conquering empire. For the glory of God and England.

That's a very obvious allegory to how other historical cultures that encountered higher-tech colonizers, and didn't fare so well.

As far as I can tell, it has been excused as speculative fiction. If it were written today, it would probably be condemned by liberals and excused by conservatives. If someone wrote a parallel story about Native Americans overcoming alien invaders, the opposite would be true.

Interesting. I will have to give that a read!

However, in the colonization of the Americas, aside from the ships to sail there, I don't think technology played a significant role. It was 90% the result of disease which nobody at the time understood. Countless natives died of European diseases without ever seeing a European. The other 10% was diplomacy, dumb luck, and superstition, as exemplified by Cortes and a ragged band vs. the Aztec Empire. Horses and firearms played a role, as did the cultural mindset of the Europeans, but not nearly as much as popularly thought.

I generally agree. My point isn't about historical reality, but what The High Crusade was conveying by allegory. Back in 1960 when the novel was published, the role of disease was not widely recognized, even though all the historical data was still there.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 26, 2023, 03:04:13 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM
If someone wrote an RPG world where only Europeans existed, so they'd created a technological utopia without the other races messing everything up, do you think people would be giving it praise? Do you think it would be excused as speculative fiction?

It's not an RPG, but I recently read Poul Anderson's _The High Crusade_, which has a related premise. It projects is that if the English in the 1300s were colonized by a high-tech alien invaders, they would just saddle up, learn the tech, and take over that conquering empire. For the glory of God and England.

That's a very obvious allegory to how other historical cultures that encountered higher-tech colonizers, and didn't fare so well.

As far as I can tell, it has been excused as speculative fiction. If it were written today, it would probably be condemned by liberals and excused by conservatives. If someone wrote a parallel story about Native Americans overcoming alien invaders, the opposite would be true.

Interesting. I will have to give that a read!

However, in the colonization of the Americas, aside from the ships to sail there, I don't think technology played a significant role. It was 90% the result of disease which nobody at the time understood. Countless natives died of European diseases without ever seeing a European. The other 10% was diplomacy, dumb luck, and superstition, as exemplified by Cortes and a ragged band vs. the Aztec Empire. Horses and firearms played a role, as did the cultural mindset of the Europeans, but not nearly as much as popularly thought.

I generally agree. My point isn't about historical reality, but what The High Crusade was conveying by allegory. Back in 1960 when the novel was published, the role of disease was not widely recognized, even though all the historical data was still there.
Yeah, I did not intend that to be a lecture for you. Mostly just old man yells at cloud.

The narrative of high-tech expansionist colonists vs noble savages living in harmony with nature is a hard one to shake. People have a deep-seated need to read intention into things that just happen.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on January 26, 2023, 03:07:54 PM
Quote
So a TBP staff member and moderator is calling RPGPundit and Zak S. Neo-Nazis. The latter definitely seems to have various issues, and the former is by admission a “shitlord”, but saying they are fascist white supremacist in alignment with the political ideology of the Nazi Party would seem slanderous. It’s more than just a hot take. But nobody can dare push back on those charges to even the slightest degree or they’ll catch a ban by the TBP mods.

Well they were smart enough to avoid names, alas if names were used that's definitely reason to sue for slander.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 26, 2023, 03:13:23 PM
Quote
So a TBP staff member and moderator is calling RPGPundit and Zak S. Neo-Nazis. The latter definitely seems to have various issues, and the former is by admission a “shitlord”, but saying they are fascist white supremacist in alignment with the political ideology of the Nazi Party would seem slanderous. It’s more than just a hot take. But nobody can dare push back on those charges to even the slightest degree or they’ll catch a ban by the TBP mods.

Well they were smart enough to avoid names, alas if names were used that's definitely reason to sue for slander.
I don’t think names are required to understand who is being talked about. They have shut down conversations about ACKS where it was being referred to in a round about way. TBP understands that avoiding names is not a safe harbor. Or at least they ought to.

Also, if not RPGPundit and Zak, then who are the two Neo-Nazi consultants WOTC hired for 5E? (It’s clearly RPGPundit and Zak, but other consultants would probably disliked being put in the category of possibly being the Neo-Nazis Zeea is claiming Mike Mearls and WOTC hired for 5E.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 26, 2023, 03:27:32 PM
They're not outright naming them, though, so any legal nastygrams can be fended off with 'oh, we weren't talking about YOU'.

Which is, of course, a coward's tactic and par for the course with TBP. And remember, Zak already wrung an apology out of Ettin (a former mod). They're probably trying to avoid that same misstep.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 26, 2023, 06:33:59 PM
PS- Bonus points for where the lore states they have 99% effective birth control, but also trumpets they have abortions for all.

    I'm reading the thread now, and I just hit the point where the reader drops that "children are not considered fully fledged humans until after they finish breastfeeding."

     :o

    Can you say "casual infanticide," ladies and gentlemen?

Is that what's implied? We don't consider children to be responsible adults until the age of 18(ish). "Fully fledged humans" does sound a bit "Post birth abortion is ok", but I'd like to give someone the benefit of the doubt on that until clarified.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 26, 2023, 06:44:03 PM
You cannot escape moral problems no matter how you dress it up.

The party gets attacked by feral dogs. As we all know, dogs are normally intelligent and loving. Does the party slay the dogs or capture them and reform them? I've never seen a party do anything other than kill or flee the dogs. One PC found the lair once and took a puppy to raise as a war dog. This runs complete counter to modern morality, but it's accepted in game.

Rats! Rats are highly intelligent and social animals, but they are the clichéd bread and butter source of XP for level 1 PCs. Go kill the rats in my cellar! It's implied that you kill any baby rats, too. Again, a moral dilemma if slaying intelligent and social creatures minding their own business is evil.

How are orcs different? They look vaguely human? They have language? Maybe they're easier to empathize with because of that. I don't think that makes the moral question any different from killing a dog.

If you're playing a game with combat and killing, I think you just have to accept that the characters are going to do some sketchy shit that would be totally unacceptable today. Dressing stuff up to make the killing more palatable is just fooling yourself.

I think that's a saner approach. Violence may be justified in certain circumstances, and killing may be a result of that violence, but going into a supernatural hell-hole for mayhem and profit is just crazy shit only justified because it's a game, and the setting is full of crazy shit.

The reason (IMO) it's an interesting discussion is because these are role playing game, and coming up with out-of-the-box solutions and ideas is the bread and butter of the games. Reforming an orc or a grand quest to make peace with orcs may make an interesting adventure.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 26, 2023, 06:55:39 PM
PS- Bonus points for where the lore states they have 99% effective birth control, but also trumpets they have abortions for all.

    I'm reading the thread now, and I just hit the point where the reader drops that "children are not considered fully fledged humans until after they finish breastfeeding."

     :o

    Can you say "casual infanticide," ladies and gentlemen?

Is that what's implied? We don't consider children to be responsible adults until the age of 18(ish). "Fully fledged humans" does sound a bit "Post birth abortion is ok", but I'd like to give someone the benefit of the doubt on that until clarified.
I don’t see how C&C is doing anything other than giving a nod and a wink to infanticide. It doesn’t seem like C&C is making a case that weaned toddlers are adults.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on January 26, 2023, 07:04:31 PM
Is that what's implied? We don't consider children to be responsible adults until the age of 18(ish). "Fully fledged humans" does sound a bit "Post birth abortion is ok", but I'd like to give someone the benefit of the doubt on that until clarified.

I dunno, given the context... (Forgive the awful formatting, I'm not willing to spend much time fixing this shit...)

While all life is considered sacred
for the citizens of Cahokia, infants
are not considered fully fledged
humans until after the typical age
they would stop breastfeeding.
Recent changes in technology
have radically altered infant mor
-tality rates though and many peo-
ple have had to face tough moral
choices that they wouldn't have
just a few generations ago. For ex-
ample, if an infant is likely to die
shortly after birth, is it acceptable
to experimentally give them the
Adanadi-based drugs to attempt
to keep them alive or cure them?
If an infant is born deaf, is it moral
to give them cybernetic implants
at birth? None of these kinds of
questions have clear answers yet.


... I'm not inclined to be generous.

Although the next paragraph is amusing, if only in that I wonder how many people realize how hypocritical it is...


With technology spreading
quickly and without centralized
legal control, often, if a parent
doesn’t like the answer a healer
gives them, they can simply take a
child to a different city-state or to
a neighboring nation to get treat-
ment that suits their desires.
There is an ongoing debate about
the rights and motives of parents
in relation to invasive permanent
medical procedures before their
children can meaningfully consent
to them..
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 26, 2023, 08:49:49 PM
Ah yes, the old techno-ableism chestnut. These people believe bionic implants that compensate for disabilities are genocide of the disabled culture and wasteful extravagances that would be better spent on accessible architecture.

As someone who has a life-threatening disability that I must carefully manage for the rest of my life with modern medicine or suffer a slow painful death, I think these people can fuck off. I would love to have an implant to increase my quality of life. I would love a complete body makeover to make myself a supermodel, a genius, and various other superpowers like being able to run as fast as a car or scale sheer surfaces or whatever. If it becomes feasible and affordable, then why the fuck shouldn’t I?

“There’s no disabled people in the future! Reee!” Dude, baseline humans will be considered disabled in that future. It’s going to be dystopian for everyone who can’t afford bionics, not just you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 26, 2023, 10:11:09 PM
If an infant is born deaf, is it moral
to give them cybernetic implants
at birth? None of these kinds of
questions have clear answers yet.[/i]

The "we shouldn't cure kids of disabilities, because that's the genocide of a culture" argument that crept its way in to the fringes of the deaf and blind communities is rancid. If you would deny your child one of its 5 senses so they have more in common with you, you're an awful person.


Dude, baseline humans will be considered disabled in that future. It’s going to be dystopian for everyone who can’t afford bionics, not just you.

I 100% agree with this, except I think genetic engineering will very quickly make bionics obsolete.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 26, 2023, 10:24:35 PM
If an infant is born deaf, is it moral
to give them cybernetic implants
at birth? None of these kinds of
questions have clear answers yet.[/i]

The "we shouldn't cure kids of disabilities, because that's the genocide of a culture" argument that crept its way in to the fringes of the deaf and blind communities is rancid. If you would deny your child one of its 5 senses so they have more in common with you, you're an awful person.


Dude, baseline humans will be considered disabled in that future. It’s going to be dystopian for everyone who can’t afford bionics, not just you.

I 100% agree with this, except I think genetic engineering will very quickly make bionics obsolete.
I love the movie GATTACA. I hate that it’s a future likely to come true.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on January 27, 2023, 12:13:04 AM
The orc babies argument is ancient. If you want to avoid the umpteenth time it's brought up and comparisons to real life genocide, then maybe redesign orcs so they don't have babies? 40k orks and 13th Age orcs are a good example of how you can do this.

Or I could discuss interesting, adult philosophical quandaries with other adults, without worrying about triggering the perpetually offended.

Sanitizing art so as not to offend isn't something I'd personally shoot for.
[a group is playing a game of D&D]
GM: You find a room full of orc babies lying defenseless in their cribs.
Paladin's Player: I move from crib to crib, slaughtering each baby orc in turn.
Rest of the group: Dude, what the fuck is wrong with you?!
Paladin's Player: They're evil! I'm just roleplaying what my character would do!


Deliberately setting out to avoid situations like that is "sanitizing art"? The above situation is deliberately offensive caricature, not art. I would never want to play with people who would want to play that seriously. Anyone who wants to play something like that is fucking insane, full stop. I expect that kind of idiotic genocide apologism shit from CalArt tumblr sjw cartoons, not fantasy books by sane people!


IT’S A GAME
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Spinachcat on January 27, 2023, 03:55:59 AM
40k's orcs are plant based. There's no orc babies. Just seedlings and saplings.

If killing evil babies is an issue that you don't want in your campaign, just assume evil creatures are made or grown, not born, so there's never a baby version.

As Trond said, "It's a game" and that goes in every direction. If some element of a setting is causing agita at your table, nuke that element from orbit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 27, 2023, 04:14:21 AM
If some element of a setting is causing agita at your table, nuke that element from orbit.

Or if it's all coming from one player, nuke the player.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on January 27, 2023, 09:16:34 AM
To expand a bit further; I’m a big believer in that games and entertainment are a way to “let out steam”. Violence has been steadily decreasing over the decades, and I think that increased availability of various forms of entertainment is a big part of the reason. I personally think that some games are distasteful, but that’s not saying that nobody should play them. Similarly with movies, millions of people liked Silence of the Lambs, particularly because of Hannibal Lecter. Should we now look at those with suspicion, because there MIGHT BE an actual serial killer somewhere in that mass of people? No.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 27, 2023, 09:29:07 AM
40k's orcs are plant based. There's no orc babies. Just seedlings and saplings.

If killing evil babies is an issue that you don't want in your campaign, just assume evil creatures are made or grown, not born, so there's never a baby version.

As Trond said, "It's a game" and that goes in every direction. If some element of a setting is causing agita at your table, nuke that element from orbit.
Well, fungal-based, but your point is still correct.

It never fails to amaze me how shallow these people are. It's YOUR GAME. If you don't like how orcs (or anything else) are portrayed, CHANGE IT.

And cripes, it's not like there aren't a bazillion other bad guys to use.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 27, 2023, 10:04:07 AM
I’m not the one who dismissed the 40k approach out of hand. That’s what got me rankled in the first place
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on January 27, 2023, 10:31:29 AM
That dumpster fire of an ogl thread on TBP is so fun. Watching people skate close to bans (some dude ate a thread ban). The amount of time and energy spent is so enjoying to watch. All the armchair IANAL going on. All the people saying it'll go to court if WotC deauthorizes. No it won't, WotC will spend you into the ground even if you're morally right. I'm giddy! LOL
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 27, 2023, 12:02:21 PM
I’m not the one who dismissed the 40k approach out of hand. That’s what got me rankled in the first place

You stomped in accusing people with different sensibilities of being genocidal lunatics and idiots, then laid your ideas for 'fixing' the Orc 'problem' before us like the Ten Commandments.

You're not the arbiter of what is or isn't appropriate for games. You don't represent some imaginary majority of gamers. We're not Serfs.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: lonewolf23k on January 28, 2023, 07:06:03 PM
Hi folks.  New to the forum, after getting a 1-week ban from rpg.net for "violating forum rules" for a post inside a thread on "Racism in the D&D Monster Manual" where I dared to suggest tying mental ability score bonuses and penalties to culture, and apparently daring to suggest a culture with poor education might leave characters with a penality to intelligence might be seen as "either racist or ableist", without even warning that my post might be seen as offensive.

The Mods really are turning into draconian thought police over there, aren't they?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 28, 2023, 08:04:54 PM
Hi folks.  New to the forum, after getting a 1-week ban from rpg.net for "violating forum rules" for a post inside a thread on "Racism in the D&D Monster Manual" where I dared to suggest tying mental ability score bonuses and penalties to culture, and apparently daring to suggest a culture with poor education might leave characters with a penality to intelligence might be seen as "either racist or ableist", without even warning that my post might be seen as offensive.

The Mods really are turning into draconian thought police over there, aren't they?

Greetings!

Welcome aboard, Lonewolf2k!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on January 28, 2023, 09:26:29 PM
Hi folks.  New to the forum, after getting a 1-week ban from rpg.net for "violating forum rules" for a post inside a thread on "Racism in the D&D Monster Manual" where I dared to suggest tying mental ability score bonuses and penalties to culture, and apparently daring to suggest a culture with poor education might leave characters with a penality to intelligence might be seen as "either racist or ableist", without even warning that my post might be seen as offensive.

The Mods really are turning into draconian thought police over there, aren't they?

Welcome, lonewolf23k!

"Turning"? Oh, no, my friend. As a former RPGnet Mod when the reasonableness of the place was already on the wane, I can assure you that this is nothing new. It just seems to have gotten progressively worse now that RPGnet has declared itself a political entity.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on January 28, 2023, 10:07:16 PM
You've posted enough details that anyone could easily work out who you are there even if you changed your username, so expect your one-week ban to be permanent by now.  So welcome aboard indeed, now that you can't go back.

Anyhow, alignment's always been a silly thing.  Murderhobos are hardly new in gaming, some players just wanna beat down on stuff and don't much care about the particulars.  Orcs, animals, bandits, that town guard that looked at them funny, the shopkeeper who refused to discount the sword they wanted, etc.  It's never been a topic that really merited lots of hand-wringing; the question at the end of the day is whether the killing(s) in question are disruptive to the game's theme.  Some games will roll just fine with a bunch of psychopath PCs, but Bill wanting to axe murder the 7-11 clerk is probably not a good fit to your highly social Vampire game focusing on political mind-games.  Are orcs inherently evil?  Maybe, who cares?  If the point of your game is to engage in cultural introspection and examine the nature of free will, then by all means spend some sessions pondering the orc baby dilemma.  But for most games an orc is a token on a map with a set of stats attached to it and the players are trying to make the HP reach zero, and that is all there is to that.  The DM likely did not write five pages of backstory about the orc's hopes and dreams and their difficult childhood that they overcame and how, if left to their own devices, they would help guide the other orcs into peaceful coexistence with humanity.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 28, 2023, 10:07:34 PM
Maybe the name should be changed to antirpg.net
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: lonewolf23k on January 28, 2023, 10:43:40 PM
And I just noticed there was an Anti-Vaxxer Thread, and fuck me this is a Right-Wing Forum.

Y'know what, let's all save some time.  I'm clearly not Left-Wing enough for RPG.Net, and I know I'm not Right-Wing enough for THIS Site, so go ahead and Perma-Ban me now.  I know I won't be visiting again.  Bonsoir.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Tait Ransom on January 28, 2023, 11:44:51 PM
And I just noticed there was an Anti-Vaxxer Thread, and fuck me this is a Right-Wing Forum.

Y'know what, let's all save some time.  I'm clearly not Left-Wing enough for RPG.Net, and I know I'm not Right-Wing enough for THIS Site, so go ahead and Perma-Ban me now.  I know I won't be visiting again.  Bonsoir.

The difference is you won’t get banned for different politics here.  You do you, but this group is pretty accepting, especially when it comes to gaming.  Politics stays in one area only, and it’s gaming conversation everywhere else.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on January 29, 2023, 01:03:26 AM
And I just noticed there was an Anti-Vaxxer Thread, and fuck me this is a Right-Wing Forum.

Y'know what, let's all save some time.  I'm clearly not Left-Wing enough for RPG.Net, and I know I'm not Right-Wing enough for THIS Site, so go ahead and Perma-Ban me now.  I know I won't be visiting again.  Bonsoir.

What kind of an idiot goes to the trouble of joining a forum without knowing just a little bit about it?  I'd never advocate banning this guy for his political views, but I wouldn't care if he was banned on grounds of (a) being plain goddamn stupid, or (b) being a drama queen, flouncing out of here with an announcement of "I'll never be back either, so there!" like a thirteen-year-old girl who didn't make the cut for the jr. high cheerleader tryouts.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 29, 2023, 02:39:10 AM
And I just noticed there was an Anti-Vaxxer Thread, and fuck me this is a Right-Wing Forum.

Y'know what, let's all save some time.  I'm clearly not Left-Wing enough for RPG.Net, and I know I'm not Right-Wing enough for THIS Site, so go ahead and Perma-Ban me now.  I know I won't be visiting again.  Bonsoir.

Nobody gives a shit what "wing" you are. But if you want to make a dramatic flounce out of the message board, you do you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 29, 2023, 03:55:38 AM
And I just noticed there was an Anti-Vaxxer Thread, and fuck me this is a Right-Wing Forum.

Y'know what, let's all save some time.  I'm clearly not Left-Wing enough for RPG.Net, and I know I'm not Right-Wing enough for THIS Site, so go ahead and Perma-Ban me now.  I know I won't be visiting again.  Bonsoir.

Greetings!

Geesus. And here I was hoping I was welcoming an RPGnet refugee that was sane and reasonable. Ahh well, don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out, as they say.

*Rolls Eyes* Fucking weak.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 29, 2023, 07:10:42 AM
So, looking at the ban for lonewolf on the tbp forums it was for suggesting a culture could have a negative impact on a character's abilities.  It's also stated that having an 'intelligence' stat is automatically racist and abelist.  Something so absolutely real, measurable and well known is basically a banning offense now.  :D

That being said, different intelligence levels are pretty hard to represent in play.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 29, 2023, 09:25:20 AM
Traveller separates education from intelligence with its EDU stat, while most systems has the intelligence stat include both aspects. I suppose by TBP’s ideology it would be racist to note that someone raised as a rural illiterate peasant before adventuring would suffer intellectually in comparison to another person who attended magnet schools while
getting their K-12 education, let alone any college.

Therefore, the difference in educational opportunities offered to minorities makes no actual difference in the their earning potential, social status, etc. No need to worry about equality in the education system because it can’t make any difference. Huzzah!

Of course that paragraph above is nonsense, but one cannot dare to offend Woke theology.

Lonewolf23k was almost free, but he just couldn’t manage it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 29, 2023, 09:51:59 AM
You've posted enough details that anyone could easily work out who you are there even if you changed your username, so expect your one-week ban to be permanent by now.  So welcome aboard indeed, now that you can't go back.

Anyhow, alignment's always been a silly thing.  Murderhobos are hardly new in gaming, some players just wanna beat down on stuff and don't much care about the particulars.  Orcs, animals, bandits, that town guard that looked at them funny, the shopkeeper who refused to discount the sword they wanted, etc.  It's never been a topic that really merited lots of hand-wringing; the question at the end of the day is whether the killing(s) in question are disruptive to the game's theme.  Some games will roll just fine with a bunch of psychopath PCs, but Bill wanting to axe murder the 7-11 clerk is probably not a good fit to your highly social Vampire game focusing on political mind-games.  Are orcs inherently evil?  Maybe, who cares?  If the point of your game is to engage in cultural introspection and examine the nature of free will, then by all means spend some sessions pondering the orc baby dilemma.  But for most games an orc is a token on a map with a set of stats attached to it and the players are trying to make the HP reach zero, and that is all there is to that.  The DM likely did not write five pages of backstory about the orc's hopes and dreams and their difficult childhood that they overcame and how, if left to their own devices, they would help guide the other orcs into peaceful coexistence with humanity.
Oh, totally. I wanted to make a point like this, but you put it so eloquently. Bravo!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 29, 2023, 10:27:47 AM
And I just noticed there was an Anti-Vaxxer Thread, and fuck me this is a Right-Wing Forum.

Y'know what, let's all save some time.  I'm clearly not Left-Wing enough for RPG.Net, and I know I'm not Right-Wing enough for THIS Site, so go ahead and Perma-Ban me now.  I know I won't be visiting again.  Bonsoir.

My first thought when you said how RPG.net was 'becoming' censorious was "ah, so you've agreed with all of their BS for years now, but you finally got targeted yourself, so now it's an issue" and you did not disappoint.

You want somewhere where you can post what you want...but where others can't post what they want. What you're looking for is a blog.

Bonsoir.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 29, 2023, 11:21:29 AM
I don’t agree with everyone about everything, but I respect their right to say so. The modern left is at fault for radicalizing a lot of people to go too far in the opposite direction. I think it’s stupid and has made formerly easy arguments into an exhaustive farce, but as long as free speech is respected here then I try not to complain too much.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on January 29, 2023, 09:03:18 PM
And I just noticed there was an Anti-Vaxxer Thread, and fuck me this is a Right-Wing Forum.

Y'know what, let's all save some time.  I'm clearly not Left-Wing enough for RPG.Net, and I know I'm not Right-Wing enough for THIS Site, so go ahead and Perma-Ban me now.  I know I won't be visiting again.  Bonsoir.

There are these people caught in the middle who've been brainwashed to think anything common sense is "right-wing" and therefore verboten. And they have no sense of nuance.

It is not "anti-vax" it is "anti-experimental gene therapy" to criticize the jab.

But anyways, I'm on this thread to enjoy hearing about the Left eating itself on RPGnet. The Left is ever descending into a spiral of madness as the contradictions in their insane world view compounds, they've departed reality into some weird fantasy land where women have penises and men can have menstrual cycles and babies. Orcs are black people, and saying there are differences between people is racism, even in D&D make believe. Eventually reality has to come crashing down on them and their whole house of cards has to collapse. I just hope they don't take Western civilization with them, though it looks like that is what is happening.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Spinachcat on January 30, 2023, 04:18:34 AM
RPG.nutters are even fun when they get banned, flee here, freak out and run back to RPG.nutland!!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on January 30, 2023, 09:29:03 AM
And I just noticed there was an Anti-Vaxxer Thread, and fuck me this is a Right-Wing Forum.

Y'know what, let's all save some time.  I'm clearly not Left-Wing enough for RPG.Net, and I know I'm not Right-Wing enough for THIS Site, so go ahead and Perma-Ban me now.  I know I won't be visiting again.  Bonsoir.

Pretty sure this won't age well.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 30, 2023, 09:41:25 AM
And I just noticed there was an Anti-Vaxxer Thread, and fuck me this is a Right-Wing Forum.

Y'know what, let's all save some time.  I'm clearly not Left-Wing enough for RPG.Net, and I know I'm not Right-Wing enough for THIS Site, so go ahead and Perma-Ban me now.  I know I won't be visiting again.  Bonsoir.

Pretty sure this won't age well.
Note how he’s been conditioned to believe that if he doesn’t have ideological conformity with a forum that means he’ll be permabanned. The conditioning lonewolf23k is showing is not by accident.

(I’m pro-vax, but never thought there had to be a purity stance based on what others here thought, and I’m not bothered into fleeing by some disagreement.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Bruwulf on January 30, 2023, 11:18:31 AM
I'm pro-vaccine. I don't wanna get rabies, or lockjaw, or meningitis.

I'm not pro-whatever-the-fuck-the-covid-shots-are, though.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 30, 2023, 11:59:04 AM
My goodness, that escalated quickly.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on January 30, 2023, 12:31:57 PM
And I just noticed there was an Anti-Vaxxer Thread, and fuck me this is a Right-Wing Forum.

Y'know what, let's all save some time.  I'm clearly not Left-Wing enough for RPG.Net, and I know I'm not Right-Wing enough for THIS Site, so go ahead and Perma-Ban me now.  I know I won't be visiting again.  Bonsoir.

Pretty sure this won't age well.
Note how he’s been conditioned to believe that if he doesn’t have ideological conformity with a forum that means he’ll be permabanned. The conditioning lonewolf23k is showing is not by accident.

(I’m pro-vax, but never thought there had to be a purity stance based on what others here thought, and I’m not bothered into fleeing by some disagreement.)

I'm not saying that vaccines are bad, and there's certainly a whole lot of disinformation about the shots. I guarantee you they don't make you magnetic or emit a bluetooth signal.

But at the same time I know enough game design to know what incentives do. If you give a pharmaceutical company an EUA absolving them of 100% of the liability and give them $20 per shot, they will not recall products which fail a cost-benefit analysis. And news companies which advertise pharmaceutical products (the Legacy Media) have an undisclosed conflict of interest which will prevent them from reporting this accurately.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on January 30, 2023, 02:12:34 PM
But at the same time I know enough game design to know what incentives do. If you give a pharmaceutical company an EUA absolving them of 100% of the liability and give them $20 per shot, they will not recall products which fail a cost-benefit analysis. And news companies which advertise pharmaceutical products (the Legacy Media) have an undisclosed conflict of interest which will prevent them from reporting this accurately.

Well said. They have every incentive to cram the gene-therapy shots into our systems regardless of any dangers there may be.

I am most certainly not anti-vax! I even got the 1st covid shot as soon as it was available, being in an age group that has some concerns, but the more real data I got the less I wanted boosters. And haven't. Then I actually caught covid, it was barely a very mild cold.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on January 30, 2023, 08:48:50 PM
And I just noticed there was an Anti-Vaxxer Thread, and fuck me this is a Right-Wing Forum.

Y'know what, let's all save some time.  I'm clearly not Left-Wing enough for RPG.Net, and I know I'm not Right-Wing enough for THIS Site, so go ahead and Perma-Ban me now.  I know I won't be visiting again.  Bonsoir.
Contrary to what they told you, you cannot get Covid from an "anti-vaxxer" thread on a forum.
Neither can you get the cooties.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on January 30, 2023, 10:07:52 PM
Contrary to what they told you, you cannot get Covid from an "anti-vaxxer" thread on a forum.
Neither can you get the cooties.

Today a lady parked behind me while I was waiting to pick up my kid from school. She was wearing one of those face diapers. In her car. By herself.

The brainwashing and conditioning is so deep there is no hope of ever reaching these people. They are too far gone. Now we understand how every totalitarian regime ever has put a society under its thumb. We saw it. Here. In America. The "land of the free". Free no more.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 30, 2023, 10:12:34 PM
Contrary to what they told you, you cannot get Covid from an "anti-vaxxer" thread on a forum.
Neither can you get the cooties.

Today a lady parked behind me while I was waiting to pick up my kid from school. She was wearing one of those face diapers. In her car. By herself.

The brainwashing and conditioning is so deep there is no hope of ever reaching these people. They are too far gone. Now we understand how every totalitarian regime ever has put a society under its thumb. We saw it. Here. In America. The "land of the free". Free no more.

For a lot of people, it's like Linus' blanket.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 30, 2023, 10:15:55 PM
When fascism came to the West, it was wrapped in a Trans flag, and carrying an iPhone.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thornhammer on January 30, 2023, 10:20:33 PM
My goodness, that escalated quickly.

I mean, that really got out of hand fast!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 30, 2023, 10:30:50 PM
He cast his eyes upon the light of freedom, and promptly crawled back into the cave.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on January 30, 2023, 10:47:04 PM
And I just noticed there was an Anti-Vaxxer Thread, and fuck me this is a Right-Wing Forum.

Y'know what, let's all save some time.  I'm clearly not Left-Wing enough for RPG.Net, and I know I'm not Right-Wing enough for THIS Site, so go ahead and Perma-Ban me now.  I know I won't be visiting again.  Bonsoir.
Contrary to what they told you, you cannot get Covid from an "anti-vaxxer" thread on a forum.
Neither can you get the cooties.

But he might be exposed to different ideas, which is far more terrifying to his kind.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 31, 2023, 12:56:22 AM
And I just noticed there was an Anti-Vaxxer Thread, and fuck me this is a Right-Wing Forum.

Y'know what, let's all save some time.  I'm clearly not Left-Wing enough for RPG.Net, and I know I'm not Right-Wing enough for THIS Site, so go ahead and Perma-Ban me now.  I know I won't be visiting again.  Bonsoir.

Pretty sure this won't age well.
Note how he’s been conditioned to believe that if he doesn’t have ideological conformity with a forum that means he’ll be permabanned. The conditioning lonewolf23k is showing is not by accident.

(I’m pro-vax, but never thought there had to be a purity stance based on what others here thought, and I’m not bothered into fleeing by some disagreement.)

I'm not saying that vaccines are bad, and there's certainly a whole lot of disinformation about the shots. I guarantee you they don't make you magnetic or emit a bluetooth signal.

Yep. That's why no one in our vaccination threads ever claimed that seriously.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Cathode Ray on February 05, 2023, 01:34:46 PM
Funny that Steve Jackson Games' web log today was promoting a thread on rpg net with rumors about GURPS.  Following their own descent, I guess they needed to boost each other's visibility.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on February 05, 2023, 01:37:17 PM
Funny that Steve Jackson Games' web log today was promoting a thread on rpg net with rumors about GURPS.  Following their own descent, I guess they needed to boost each other's visibility.

Like a pair of aged porn stars teaming up to try and boost sales, only with less class.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on February 05, 2023, 02:23:11 PM
Funny that Steve Jackson Games' web log today was promoting a thread on rpg net with rumors about GURPS.  Following their own descent, I guess they needed to boost each other's visibility.

Descent in sales or descent into wokeness? I haven't been following what's going on but last I checked, they were yellow on our Guide to Woke Companies.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on February 05, 2023, 08:23:54 PM
Funny that Steve Jackson Games' web log today was promoting a thread on rpg net with rumors about GURPS.  Following their own descent, I guess they needed to boost each other's visibility.

Do you mean the GURPS 5e thread.  SJG had a Daily Illuminator post last week (Monday maybe) saying the rumour was false.  Really after all the times I've agitated for better GURPS support I'm very convinced they never want to do GURPS 5th edition unless their other products like Munchkin crash entirely and GURPS sales spike, it's not happening.  In fact if Munchkin crashed and GURPS sales didn't spike they'd either try another game or close down.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on February 05, 2023, 09:29:39 PM
Descent in sales or descent into wokeness? I haven't been following what's going on but last I checked, they were yellow on our Guide to Woke Companies.
 
  They jumped to Red last summer (http://www.sjgames.com/ill/archive/July_08_2022/Roe_v_Wade) when Steve Jackson came out as fervidly 'pro-choice' and decided to start fundraising for the Lilith Fund.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on February 13, 2023, 03:59:06 AM
Do you mean the GURPS 5e thread.  SJG had a Daily Illuminator post last week (Monday maybe) saying the rumour was false.  Really after all the times I've agitated for better GURPS support I'm very convinced they never want to do GURPS 5th edition unless their other products like Munchkin crash entirely and GURPS sales spike, it's not happening.  In fact if Munchkin crashed and GURPS sales didn't spike they'd either try another game or close down.

There will be a 5th edition. It's almost done. They've been working on it for a while.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on February 13, 2023, 09:34:12 AM
There will be a 5th edition. It's almost done. They've been working on it for a while.

Any more info on this? Morbid curiosity...I actually like GURPS 3rd (it's an excellent gritty fantasy game with just the Basic Set) but hated what they did with 4th. I sold off a giant stack of hardcovers a couple weeks ago, actually. So yeah, want to see what 5th will look like.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on February 13, 2023, 03:33:11 PM
There will be a 5th edition. It's almost done. They've been working on it for a while.

Any more info on this? Morbid curiosity...I actually like GURPS 3rd (it's an excellent gritty fantasy game with just the Basic Set) but hated what they did with 4th. I sold off a giant stack of hardcovers a couple weeks ago, actually. So yeah, want to see what 5th will look like.

I don't have much more information. I know this comes across as some rando on the the internet making up rumors. But I've been working in the games industry since 2000 as a designer and know lots of folks at various companies. It was actually slipped to me by accident.

GURPS is a fine system, I played it a lot during the 90's because my gaming group hated 2nd edition D&D (looking back 2e isn't as bad as we thought it was). It needs to get the same treatment that 5th edition D&D got. Go back to its roots. Streamline all the bullshit. And make an easy to learn and aesthetically pleasing game. Make some real crowd pleasing campaign adventures for it  - which has always been GURPS weak spot.

edit: fixed minor typo
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: JulesTheTaxi on February 14, 2023, 11:53:28 AM
I'm wondering if there's mod drama going on in the OGL thread.

First someone called out Zeea for stirring up shit:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-holy-shit-srd-5-1-released-as-creative-commons-by-4-0.906691/post-24693054 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-holy-shit-srd-5-1-released-as-creative-commons-by-4-0.906691/post-24693054)

Zeea kind of apologised (but had to get a couple of petty comments in first of course - honestly, they're like children):
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-holy-shit-srd-5-1-released-as-creative-commons-by-4-0.906691/post-24693708 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-holy-shit-srd-5-1-released-as-creative-commons-by-4-0.906691/post-24693708)

Now the thread is locked:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-holy-shit-srd-5-1-released-as-creative-commons-by-4-0.906691/post-24693708 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-holy-shit-srd-5-1-released-as-creative-commons-by-4-0.906691/post-24693708)

Officially because there's nothing new to talk about, but they've been rehashing the same tired points for ages now. It just seems interesting that shortly after a mod being called out the thread is shut down and nobody else can comment either way on the mod's behaviour...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on February 14, 2023, 01:40:26 PM
I'm wondering if there's mod drama going on in the OGL thread.

First someone called out Zeea for stirring up shit:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-holy-shit-srd-5-1-released-as-creative-commons-by-4-0.906691/post-24693054 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-holy-shit-srd-5-1-released-as-creative-commons-by-4-0.906691/post-24693054)

Zeea kind of apologised (but had to get a couple of petty comments in first of course - honestly, they're like children):
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-holy-shit-srd-5-1-released-as-creative-commons-by-4-0.906691/post-24693708 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-holy-shit-srd-5-1-released-as-creative-commons-by-4-0.906691/post-24693708)

Now the thread is locked:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-holy-shit-srd-5-1-released-as-creative-commons-by-4-0.906691/post-24693708 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dungeons-dragons-and-the-ogl-1-1-official-discussion-thread-part-2-holy-shit-srd-5-1-released-as-creative-commons-by-4-0.906691/post-24693708)

Officially because there's nothing new to talk about, but they've been rehashing the same tired points for ages now. It just seems interesting that shortly after a mod being called out the thread is shut down and nobody else can comment either way on the mod's behaviour...

   And they follow up with a seven-day ban for criticizing Zeea "being unfair and inflammatory."
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/atlictoatl-infracted-%F0%9F%9A%AB-seven-day-ban.907555/#post-24694493
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: JulesTheTaxi on February 14, 2023, 02:35:13 PM
"Time and again you have been told to stop playing junior moderator and you never seem to listen. We're giving you a week off in the hopes that it might sink in this time. Rethink your posting style if you wish to remain on the board. Furthermore you are banned from this thread and future iterations, if the thread is ever reopened."

Don't answer back to teacher or you'll be punished!  :-X
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 14, 2023, 03:05:46 PM
Pretty much. The ruling junta of TBP really hates backtalk.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on February 14, 2023, 11:50:11 PM
The officers of every spiteful ideology are always kids that were unpopular and bullied growing up, and lust for petty power over others.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 15, 2023, 12:13:16 AM
"Time and again you have been told to stop playing junior moderator and you never seem to listen. We're giving you a week off in the hopes that it might sink in this time. Rethink your posting style if you wish to remain on the board. Furthermore you are banned from this thread and future iterations, if the thread is ever reopened."

Don't answer back to teacher or you'll be punished!  :-X

Hell, it's about time someone acted like a moderator over there. :P
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on February 15, 2023, 08:48:03 AM
"Time and again you have been told to stop playing junior moderator and you never seem to listen. We're giving you a week off in the hopes that it might sink in this time. Rethink your posting style if you wish to remain on the board. Furthermore you are banned from this thread and future iterations, if the thread is ever reopened."

Don't answer back to teacher or you'll be punished!  :-X

Yeah, funny thing about that... The mods were totally fine with me getting dogpiled while I was a mod and took conservative positions.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on February 15, 2023, 09:10:00 AM
Yeah, funny thing about that... The mods were totally fine with me getting dogpiled while I was a mod and took conservative positions.

Yeah, funny thing about that... The mods were totally fine with me getting righteously punished while I was a mod and goose-stepped around throwing the roman-salute, cackling about genocide.*

*The purple text is a translation of how a wokist reads a sentence with Conservative in it. Do not adjust your set.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on February 15, 2023, 09:43:25 AM
Yeah, funny thing about that... The mods were totally fine with me getting dogpiled while I was a mod and took conservative positions.

  Wasn't that back when mods were still considered mortal, not divine?  ;)

   On an unrelated note, I just saw someone call J.K. Rowling a "dyed-in-the-wool reflection-free traditionalist." They really don't understand the people they hate, do they?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fergurg on February 15, 2023, 11:11:48 AM
... They really don't understand the people they hate, do they?

These are leftists we're talking about. They see not understanding the people they hate as a virtue.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 15, 2023, 11:59:19 AM
Yeah, funny thing about that... The mods were totally fine with me getting dogpiled while I was a mod and took conservative positions.

  Wasn't that back when mods were still considered mortal, not divine?  ;)

   On an unrelated note, I just saw someone call J.K. Rowling a "dyed-in-the-wool reflection-free traditionalist." They really don't understand the people they hate, do they?
That is hilarious, since 99 percent of Rowling's views are very liberal to leftist.

She just objects to men in women's spaces, especially DV shelters. But because she violates their orthodoxy, she must be punished.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on February 15, 2023, 12:51:28 PM
Yeah, funny thing about that... The mods were totally fine with me getting dogpiled while I was a mod and took conservative positions.

  Wasn't that back when mods were still considered mortal, not divine?  ;)

   On an unrelated note, I just saw someone call J.K. Rowling a "dyed-in-the-wool reflection-free traditionalist." They really don't understand the people they hate, do they?
That is hilarious, since 99 percent of Rowling's views are very liberal to leftist.

She just objects to men in women's spaces, especially DV shelters. But because she violates their orthodoxy, she must be punished.
The apostate and heretic are more hated than the heathen.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BrokenCounsel on February 16, 2023, 08:41:31 AM
Quote
That is hilarious, since 99 percent of Rowling's views are very liberal to leftist.

She just objects to men in women's spaces, especially DV shelters. But because she violates their orthodoxy, she must be punished.

Saw some Facebook comments on a Hogwarts Legacy review that were trotting out the 'buuuut sheeee hatesez tranzes' bullshit, and justifying they're shitty boycott with 'becuz royalties to Rowling are going to fund anti-trans causes'. Like, 1. You haven't got a fucking clue HOW JKR is spending her royalties. 2. Is JKR the secret benefactor of numerous Nazi-like TERF brigades? If so, citations and receipts, puhleez. 3. She invented the whole fucking concept, world and characters of Hogwarts, you fucking Maoist fucks, and deserves to to be paid those royalties.

But, yeah. You can be a dyed in the wool socialist in your beliefs, but dare to question the trans tyranny even a morsel and you're now on the political right of Hitler.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on February 16, 2023, 09:26:23 AM
While I'm against cancellation on moral, and self-interest reasons, I can't manage a tear for Rowling. She was a harbinger of a lot of this shit, and continues to push every deranged Leftoid idea except the sacred Trans. Not to mention she's misandrist as fuck.

Hogwarts Legacy is neither fish-nor-fowl. Apparently it's a decent game, but a lot of Right leaning people gobbled it up because the wokes attacked it so vigorously, only to find 1800's Hogwarts looks like 2023 London, and the local bartender has a bonus surprise under her dress.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on February 16, 2023, 09:51:54 AM
Quote
3. She invented the whole fucking concept, world and characters of Hogwarts, you fucking Maoist fucks, and deserves to to be paid those royalties.

Intellectual property existence aside - but you see the whole schtick with boycott is - they if people does not buy Hogwart's Legacy - they do not have to pay royalties to Rowling.
It's not like Rowling deserves any royalty from books or games that were not sold. So this has nothing to do with maoism really.

If there was massive action to pirate Hogwart's Legacy - then your argument would hold some ground.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on February 16, 2023, 10:44:59 AM
... They really don't understand the people they hate, do they?

These are leftists we're talking about. They see not understanding the people they hate as a virtue.
Bingo. They lack the capacity, will, or desire to engage in critical thinking. They proudly "deplatform" anyone who so much as questions the doctrine.

I've never given much thought to JKR but I respect the fact that she speaks her mind and does not kowtow to the haters. It's very refreshing. We need more people like JRK, Dave Chappelle, etc. who are unafraid to voice "problematic" opinions.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 17, 2023, 10:22:11 AM
'Violating A-game policies'

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/myrme-infracted-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-violating-a-game-policies.907636/

Boy, I bet they also ban for remarking on the old 'chunky salsa' rule that was in Shadowrun or Cyberpunk (I can't remember which).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on February 17, 2023, 10:44:34 AM
'Violating A-game policies'

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/myrme-infracted-%F0%9F%94%B4-warning-violating-a-game-policies.907636/

Boy, I bet they also ban for remarking on the old 'chunky salsa' rule that was in Shadowrun or Cyberpunk (I can't remember which).
No explanation given for the warning. Verdict first, then the trial.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on February 17, 2023, 11:56:03 AM
Boy, I bet they also ban for remarking on the old 'chunky salsa' rule that was in Shadowrun or Cyberpunk (I can't remember which).

Shadowrun, all of Cyberpunk is smarter than that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on February 17, 2023, 12:52:42 PM
Boy, I bet they also ban for remarking on the old 'chunky salsa' rule that was in Shadowrun or Cyberpunk (I can't remember which).

Shadowrun, all of Cyberpunk is smarter than that.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.AnyvtNPSLGlp77nC0hb3ZAHaHa%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=c9d7e9fda1fb46b593f95704219b3f20276f60040f533d6530b1d3bb1e095358&ipo=images)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 01, 2023, 02:15:29 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/menocchio-infracted-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-threadban-social-callousness-minimization-of-problems.908070/

You are not allowed to challenge the narrative. You will not enjoy badwrongfun.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on March 01, 2023, 02:20:45 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/menocchio-infracted-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-threadban-social-callousness-minimization-of-problems.908070/

You are not allowed to challenge the narrative. You will not enjoy badwrongfun.
We have arrived at the point where a large segment of the population sees no difference between goblins in a video game and something like Kristallnacht. It is true madness!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on March 01, 2023, 02:52:10 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/menocchio-infracted-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban-threadban-social-callousness-minimization-of-problems.908070/

You are not allowed to challenge the narrative. You will not enjoy badwrongfun.
We have arrived at the point where a large segment of the population sees no difference between goblins in a video game and something like Kristallnacht. It is true madness!
Notice how they’re practically begging companies to hire commissars (sensitivity readers) to be hired to review every project for badthink. I’d guess most of those posters are hoping that they’ll be one of those commissars so that they can get paid for being thought police. A lot of companies and a few universities have started to cut down on their DEI goon squads lately. I expect there to be a lot of desperation from the grievance-studies majors as those who sign the pay checks start to ask “and what is it that you do here?”
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on March 03, 2023, 08:35:27 AM


We have arrived at the point where a large segment of the population sees no difference between goblins in a video game and something like Kristallnacht. It is true madness!


They should all ban themselves. By these hyper-sensitive standards, they are all raging Nazis when it comes to Israel and Palestine.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 03, 2023, 09:30:54 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/gregc-infracted-%F0%9F%92%80-permanent-ban.908128/

The more I look at this, the more I scratch my head. I think gregc did kind of jump at the 'sleazy creators' line, but in my opinion (take with salt) Zeea was nuzzling right up to 'group attacks' there.

But boy howdy they did NOT like gregc pointing out what a bad take it was to have a mod talking like that. Miss Atomic Retard says, "Moderators not posting in fancy textboxes like this one are ordinary members of the forums." but that's not true and it NEVER has been, no matter what the so-called 'rules' say. The mods have never let ordinary posters clown on them in discussion. Bullshit.

And then to insinuate that gregc is 'stanning for jerks' when he did nothing of the sort? Typical.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on March 09, 2023, 02:34:24 AM
These are leftists we're talking about. They see not understanding the people they hate as a virtue.

Very accurate statement. They are proud of their ignorance. While conservatives bend over backwards to try to understand where these leftists are coming from. And conservatives understand leftest better than they understand themselves.

I'm about done reasoning with them. They wallow in their asininity and cannot be reasoned with.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 13, 2023, 11:46:32 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/myrme-infracted-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban.908422/

Ah, so now group attacks on federal employees aren't okay? After TBP staff made it policy that ICE/DHS couldn't be defended, and that cop 'shoots' couldn't be defended either?

They're so transparently two-faced their patron deity should be Janus. Sheesh.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 13, 2023, 11:44:14 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/myrme-infracted-%F0%9F%9A%AB-three-day-ban.908422/

Ah, so now group attacks on federal employees aren't okay? After TBP staff made it policy that ICE/DHS couldn't be defended, and that cop 'shoots' couldn't be defended either?

They're so transparently two-faced their patron deity should be Janus. Sheesh.

Defending federal employees specifically under the Trump administration? I thought guilt by association was a Good Thing...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on March 19, 2023, 09:16:40 AM
Meanwhile, if you visit the forums, you'll see that they've now moved into open political activism.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on March 19, 2023, 10:33:05 AM
Meanwhile, if you visit the forums, you'll see that they've now moved into open political activism.
I wouldn’t not be surprised if they start sending DMs to the users asking them to sign Woke pledges, followed later by more DMs that run along the lines of:

“Dear Comrade,

We have noticed that your name is not among the signatories to the important petition. Perhaps this was an oversight on your part, or perhaps you could provide any other internet identities you could have used to sign the important petition? If you are using other internet identities than the one registered with RPGNet, it’d be best if in the future you only used the one registered with RPGNet to avoid any future confusion.

In Wokeness,
Comrade-Commissar Tankie”
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 22, 2023, 11:49:45 AM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/inappropriate-ads.908788/

It seems TBP is having problems with inappropriate ads again. I wonder whether the admin are that incompetent or they simply don't care and run any ad they want because they like the money more than they care about SFW/NSFW content.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on March 22, 2023, 12:39:58 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/inappropriate-ads.908788/

It seems TBP is having problems with inappropriate ads again. I wonder whether the admin are that incompetent or they simply don't care and run any ad they want because they like the money more than they care about SFW/NSFW content.

What's funny about their complaining about blocking the crap is that most of these ads are targeted...which means if you click on them you get more.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Willmark on April 02, 2023, 07:36:56 PM
One of the most amusing things about rpgnet (out of a multitude) is the mods penchant for "take X days off" or "take X ban" When things are shoved at you with no choice in the matter, is that really "taking" something?

I'm sure the point is lost there but amusing from the outside looking in.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on April 02, 2023, 08:39:52 PM
One of the most amusing things about rpgnet (out of a multitude) is the mods penchant for "take X days off" or "take X ban" When things are shoved at you with no choice in the matter, is that really "taking" something?

I'm sure the point is lost there but amusing from the outside looking in.
Punishment is a “gift” of time to work on re-education for oneself in the mind of the TBP mods.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on April 02, 2023, 09:27:36 PM
When things are shoved at you with no choice in the matter, is that really "taking" something?

Well, we talk about "taking a beating", or "taking a bath on that deal", etc.  And "taking lessons" is a Britishism that schoolkids use despite having very little choice about it. Or closer to home, there's the phrase "take a hike!" when we want someone to bug off and leave us alone.

Perhaps it's meant to be a slightly less authoritarian-sounding alternative to the rather harsh "You are banned for X days". (Which still sometimes gets used anyway, but still.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on April 02, 2023, 09:59:21 PM
It's just a flex of petty power. "Take THAT, evil Untermensch!"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Doctor Jest on April 04, 2023, 11:38:14 PM
Okay. Then why make orcs inherently evil in the first place?

I can help you with this, by framing it in a way you people understand.

What if you were in a game where Orcs are born genetically, inherently, and irredeemably FASCIST (with white skin, blonde hair and blue eyes). They all grow up to be anti-revolutionaries who hate the goodness of Communism and want to put elves in gas ovens for fun.

They constantly attack the Socialist Paradises of the Socialist Republic of Happy and Peaceful Furries to slaughter GENOCIDE the innocent and pure LGBTQIA+++++ peoples there... JUST FOR EXISTING! All attempts to call them racist and transphobic have shockingly failed to stop the GENOCIDE.

Would you say violence against the orcs is justified?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on April 10, 2023, 03:42:39 PM
What if you were in a game where Orcs are born genetically, inherently, and irredeemably FASCIST (with white skin, blonde hair and blue eyes). They all grow up to be anti-revolutionaries who hate the goodness of Communism and want to put elves in gas ovens for fun. ...Would you say violence against the orcs is justified?

If that is how the rules of reality work in the setting created by that game, then yes: in that fictional context, it'd be justified. It wouldn't be a game I personally would ever play (being, ironically, myself blond and blue-eyed, though to the best of my recollection the closest I've ever gotten to fascism is unironically thinking the Knights Templar were cool), but if somebody really wants to write and play the reverse of RaHoWa, be my guest.

Besides, it's not like pale, blue-eyed, unreasoningly malevolent and totalitarianly united foes haven't been used in fantasy before -- check out the White Walkers in Game of Thrones, or the Kargads in Earthsea. If somebody wants to tell me that I should dislike those works as slams against my race because of that, they're free to do so, and I'm free to laugh at them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 27, 2023, 02:08:54 PM
I've commented before on what Dyvers Hands (the owners of TBP) might be up to, as they went utterly silent and didn't seem to have anything on tap. Well, lo and behold, they've pushed through a Kickstarter for their storygame card games. Very curious.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on April 27, 2023, 06:15:45 PM
I've commented before on what Dyvers Hands (the owners of TBP) might be up to, as they went utterly silent and didn't seem to have anything on tap. Well, lo and behold, they've pushed through a Kickstarter for their storygame card games. Very curious.
Their website looks like it’d be created for a low-key new age cult. It looks like they found success by raising $707. Small companies have to start somewhere, but that seems to be an amount for a random guy starting brand new, not a company running a significant rpg forum.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on April 27, 2023, 06:32:46 PM
Small companies have to start somewhere, but that seems to be an amount for a random guy starting brand new, not a company running a significant rpg forum.

I knew they run TBP, they run an RPG forum too? They should probably advertise their products there.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on May 04, 2023, 10:30:03 AM
Spotted on a thread concerned over the treatment of droids in Star Wars (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/becoming-increasingly-uncomfortable-with-star-wars-droid-portrayal.909634/):

Quote
It wouldn't happen, but I have this idea in my head that the major movies/shows of say the last 50 years should be redone with today's standards. Star Wars, Raiders,etc. A monolithic undertaking but wouldn't it be worth it?

   Thou hast conquered, Big Brother.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 04, 2023, 10:42:27 AM
Spotted on a thread concerned over the treatment of droids in Star Wars (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/becoming-increasingly-uncomfortable-with-star-wars-droid-portrayal.909634/):

Quote
It wouldn't happen, but I have this idea in my head that the major movies/shows of say the last 50 years should be redone with today's standards. Star Wars, Raiders,etc. A monolithic undertaking but wouldn't it be worth it?

   Thou has conquered, Big Brother.
You mean remake them so that instead of being blockbusters, they tank harder than Ishtar?

Well, that's certainly a... bold idea on this gimp's part.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on May 04, 2023, 10:50:21 AM
Spotted on a thread concerned over the treatment of droids in Star Wars (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/becoming-increasingly-uncomfortable-with-star-wars-droid-portrayal.909634/):

Quote
It wouldn't happen, but I have this idea in my head that the major movies/shows of say the last 50 years should be redone with today's standards. Star Wars, Raiders,etc. A monolithic undertaking but wouldn't it be worth it?

   Thou has conquered, Big Brother.
I had those thoughts (the droids are enslaved, not reworking the films to be ideologically correct) as a kid more than 35 years ago, and these geniuses are just now struggling with this is worth mocking. If they want the SW universe to deal with droid slavery, have a droid revolt be the way the galactic civilization and the SW fictional universe ends, and thus becomes a matter of legend from a long, long time ago.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on May 04, 2023, 12:00:21 PM
Spotted on a thread concerned over the treatment of droids in Star Wars (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/becoming-increasingly-uncomfortable-with-star-wars-droid-portrayal.909634/):

Quote
It wouldn't happen, but I have this idea in my head that the major movies/shows of say the last 50 years should be redone with today's standards. Star Wars, Raiders,etc. A monolithic undertaking but wouldn't it be worth it?

   Thou has conquered, Big Brother.
You mean remake them so that instead of being blockbusters, they tank harder than Ishtar?

Well, that's certainly a... bold idea on this gimp's part.
What a drab boring world these people seek: Cleanse all entertainment to conform to “today’s standards.” Imagine not being able to enjoy a work of fiction on its own terms. Sad sacks the lot of em.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 04, 2023, 12:11:01 PM
Spotted on a thread concerned over the treatment of droids in Star Wars (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/becoming-increasingly-uncomfortable-with-star-wars-droid-portrayal.909634/):

Quote
It wouldn't happen, but I have this idea in my head that the major movies/shows of say the last 50 years should be redone with today's standards. Star Wars, Raiders,etc. A monolithic undertaking but wouldn't it be worth it?

   Thou hast conquered, Big Brother.


*hrngh*

For those who haven't heard my rant. The issue is Star Wars vaciliates between droids as things, and droids as indistinguishable from flesh and blood creatures.

You can flippin torture droids, for god's sake! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O0-dCLFadQ)

This makes absolutley no sense. Are droids "programmed to feel pain"? How do they "feel"? Are common Gonk droids designed with elaborate pain receptors and artifical brains so that Jabba can have them tortured? How the fuck does that make a Gonk droid any better at doing it's menial task of being a walking power generator? (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/GNK_power_droid)

There is just as much reason to argue that appliances from Brave Little Toaster should be freed and given rights, or that toys from Toy Story should be given rights.

It misses the forest for the trees. Droids are things, anthropomorphized for storytelling purposes.

Making a "droid rights" story in Star Wars will immediatley fall apart because it will call scrutiny to the issue that droids act like people because story, and there's nothing deeper to the topic.

Quote
This gets extra murky due to the fact that droids also fall into the Disney tendency to make mascot animals as smart as humans, while keeping normal animals at animal levels of intelligence, and refusing to acknowledge the difference.

There we go. Discussing Star Wars droids as people, you're knocking on the door of trying to rationalize why Mickey Mouse has a pet dog.  ;D
u're
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on May 04, 2023, 12:21:02 PM
Spotted on a thread concerned over the treatment of droids in Star Wars (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/becoming-increasingly-uncomfortable-with-star-wars-droid-portrayal.909634/):

Quote
It wouldn't happen, but I have this idea in my head that the major movies/shows of say the last 50 years should be redone with today's standards. Star Wars, Raiders,etc. A monolithic undertaking but wouldn't it be worth it?

   Thou hast conquered, Big Brother.


*hrngh*

For those who haven't heard my rant. The issue is Star Wars vaciliates between droids as things, and droids as indistinguishable from flesh and blood creatures.

You can flippin torture droids, for god's sake! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O0-dCLFadQ)

This makes absolutley no sense. Are droids "programmed to feel pain"? How do they "feel"? Are common Gonk droids designed with elaborate pain receptors and artifical brains so that Jabba can have them tortured? How the fuck does that make a Gonk droid any better at doing it's menial task of being a walking power generator? (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/GNK_power_droid)

There is just as much reason to argue that appliances from Brave Little Toaster should be freed and given rights, or that toys from Toy Story should be given rights.

It misses the forest for the trees. Droids are things, anthropomorphized for storytelling purposes.

Making a "droid rights" story in Star Wars will immediatley fall apart because it will call scrutiny to the issue that droids act like people because story, and there's nothing deeper to the topic.
This is why I found Janet from The Good Place so refreshing. She says at one point "Chidi, I can see that you're worried, and I just want to assure you, I am not human, and I cannot feel pain."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on May 04, 2023, 12:34:22 PM
Spotted on a thread concerned over the treatment of droids in Star Wars (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/becoming-increasingly-uncomfortable-with-star-wars-droid-portrayal.909634/):

Quote
It wouldn't happen, but I have this idea in my head that the major movies/shows of say the last 50 years should be redone with today's standards. Star Wars, Raiders,etc. A monolithic undertaking but wouldn't it be worth it?

   Thou has conquered, Big Brother.
You mean remake them so that instead of being blockbusters, they tank harder than Ishtar?

Well, that's certainly a... bold idea on this gimp's part.
What a drab boring world these people seek: Cleanse all entertainment to conform to “today’s standards.” Imagine not being able to enjoy a work of fiction on its own terms. Sad sacks the lot of em.

  "Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."--1984
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on May 04, 2023, 01:20:34 PM
Making a "droid rights" story in Star Wars will immediatley fall apart because it will call scrutiny to the issue that droids act like people because story, and there's nothing deeper to the topic.
This is why I found Janet from The Good Place so refreshing. She says at one point "Chidi, I can see that you're worried, and I just want to assure you, I am not human, and I cannot feel pain."

But...  Even though she isn't human, the characters grow from treating Janet as a servant that they take for granted to a friend (or even spouse) whom they love and respect.

The droids in Star Trek show all signs of full human sentience and emotion, at least as much so as, say, Commander Data in Star Trek.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 04, 2023, 03:08:15 PM
Spotted on a thread concerned over the treatment of droids in Star Wars (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/becoming-increasingly-uncomfortable-with-star-wars-droid-portrayal.909634/):

Quote
It wouldn't happen, but I have this idea in my head that the major movies/shows of say the last 50 years should be redone with today's standards. Star Wars, Raiders,etc. A monolithic undertaking but wouldn't it be worth it?

   Thou hast conquered, Big Brother.

Having already derailed the thread over a pet peeve of mine...

Lucas already broke that barrier when he went back and tinkered with the films, several times. Why not redo them to appeal to modern, "progressive" ideas, and trash the old films?

And when the current "progressive" attitudes come to be seen as Nazi fascism, then can do it again.

Yeah, it's a terrible idea, and the sad part is they don't understand why.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on May 04, 2023, 05:34:11 PM
But...  Even though she isn't human, the characters grow from treating Janet as a servant that they take for granted to a friend (or even spouse) whom they love and respect.

Yes but humans anthropomorphize animals and objects all the time, so that says more about us than the robot.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on May 07, 2023, 12:30:56 PM
But...  Even though she isn't human, the characters grow from treating Janet as a servant that they take for granted to a friend (or even spouse) whom they love and respect.

Yes but humans anthropomorphize animals and objects all the time, so that says more about us than the robot.

This right here.

It's enough to where Soldiers cry over the loss of their bomb detecting robots they get so attached to them... And it's just a machine, it has no sentience what so ever.

This whole talk over whether droids are enslaved or not is asinine in the end, for what amounts to a fairy tale universe where you're not supposed to look to closely or it falls apart. The people who think droids are enslaved are the same people who think Jedi are the "Real bad guys" because they employ 'Child soldiers.'

You're not supposed to employ real world ethics and logic in what is a fairy tale universe where Good and Evil are tangible magical forces that can effect things.

Jhkim trying to compare C-3P0 and R2-D2 to Data is more evidence of his usual Sophistry.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on May 10, 2023, 04:02:50 PM
Here's the deal. You can anthropomorphize *anything* if you want to.  Try as hard as you want to, it won't make your electric toothbrush sentient.

I would think that droids are generally *not* given a bipedal humanoid form *because* they don't want them to be treated like humans.

Look at other media - where they want to assign human characteristics, they make them look like people (e.g. Bishop in Aliens).

It's the same with non-human animals.  The level of humanization depends upon their cuddliness, personality, and intelligence - as well it should. My dog is like a very affectionate retarded 6-year old and I'll treat her that way - she gets belly rubs, treats, a place in my lap while I'm in my recliner, etc. The bugs out in the garden - not so much.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on May 10, 2023, 04:59:48 PM
My dog is like a very affectionate retarded 6-year old and I'll treat her that way - she gets belly rubs, treats, a place in my lap while I'm in my recliner, etc. The bugs out in the garden - not so much.

(https://media.tenor.com/OJ7UCRRFtGUAAAAC/take-a-seat-chris-hansen.gif)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 3catcircus on May 10, 2023, 08:22:16 PM
My dog is like a very affectionate retarded 6-year old and I'll treat her that way - she gets belly rubs, treats, a place in my lap while I'm in my recliner, etc. The bugs out in the garden - not so much.

(https://media.tenor.com/OJ7UCRRFtGUAAAAC/take-a-seat-chris-hansen.gif)

Funny - I see what you did there...

The fact that I would have made a similar joke about something innocent (the dog is actually asleep laying across my lap as I type this - and she's 67 lbs of lapdog) just illustrates how fucked up society is that pedos are accepted as just a fact of modern life, instead of society demanding they be killed as soon as they are caught.

That same fucked up thinking is what gets us where mental defectives think we should remake movies that aren't woke enough.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on June 02, 2023, 02:55:48 PM
Not saying I don’t think WotC was obviously the one at fault in the Pinkertons incident. This person had it wrong. But take a look at the moderation commentary on their 30 day ban: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/darrin-kelley-infracted-thirty-day-ban.910013/

Emphasis Mine:“The real issue with your post, though, is the same thing you've been dinged for before: curt, absolute statements that impute great and malicious moral importance to someone's comparatively small or invented transgression.“ (I mean, seems a bit hypocritical to me in some ways.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Anon Adderlan on June 04, 2023, 08:26:07 AM
I've commented before on what Dyvers Hands (the owners of TBP) might be up to,

When did they get their hands on TBP (https://archive.is/D3nxk)?

Quote
RPGnet is the oldest independent roleplaying site on the Internet. It was founded in 1996 by Emma Antunes and is now owned and run by Dyvers Hands Productions, a company specializing in storytelling across many media.

So not sure, but apparently they've been failing to credit Sandy Antunes for at least the last 6 years. How ironic (https://web.archive.org/web/20230604114224/https://www.rpg.net/columns/soap/soap132.phtml). BTW this is what happens when you try and archive that last page with archive.today (https://archive.is/h2qqn).

They also claim they're not beholden to the CCPA as they have less that 50k 'active' users. Yet last I checked they have over 100k (https://archive.is/ljeNW). Seems they want to be both the largest independent RPG site in the world and free from the liability that entails. We shall see.

Bonus Round: Dyvers Hands' last #Kickstarter was for an RPG about... gatekeeping (https://archive.is/MKBPo).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 04, 2023, 10:17:30 AM
I've commented before on what Dyvers Hands (the owners of TBP) might be up to,

When did they get their hands on TBP (https://archive.is/D3nxk)?

Quote
RPGnet is the oldest independent roleplaying site on the Internet. It was founded in 1996 by Emma Antunes and is now owned and run by Dyvers Hands Productions, a company specializing in storytelling across many media.

So not sure, but apparently they've been failing to credit Sandy Antunes for at least the last 6 years. How ironic (https://web.archive.org/web/20230604114224/https://www.rpg.net/columns/soap/soap132.phtml). BTW this is what happens when you try and archive that last page with archive.today (https://archive.is/h2qqn).

They also claim they're not beholden to the CCPA as they have less that 50k 'active' users. Yet last I checked they have over 100k (https://archive.is/ljeNW). Seems they want to be both the largest independent RPG site in the world and free from the liability that entails. We shall see.

Bonus Round: Dyvers Hands' last #Kickstarter was for an RPG about... gatekeeping (https://archive.is/MKBPo).
That is weird shit.

I tested the archive.today thing. Same result as you. Then I tested it with a more recent column. Works fine. Very strange.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 16, 2023, 11:11:15 AM
Looked back in on the fascist hellhole that is TBP.

Was not disappointed.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/eryops-infracted-warning.911239/
"It's racist to point out a practical problem with being concerned about a game campaign that would be totally absurd."

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/rupert-infracted-thirty-day-ban-group-attack-on-fans-of-white-wolf-games.911243/
"Thirty days in the hole for comparing life experiences which we disapprove of."

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/randall-infracted-thirty-day-ban-long-history-of-conspiracy-theorizing-revenge-fantasies-and-heating-up-threads.911244/
"Thirty days in the hole for having the nerve to question our narrative. Also, here are some totally true and honest links from RationalWiki."

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/not-a-decepticon-infracted-warning-ban-from-d20-subforum-and-d-d-related-topics.911245/
"RPGnet posters are allowed to criticize companies except when we say you can't, shitlord."

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/scurrilous-infracted-thirty-day-ban-dismissive-of-minority-experiences.911252/
"Thirty days for not being properly pious towards our approved lived experiences."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abbo1993 on June 16, 2023, 12:35:17 PM
I'm genuinely surprised nobody took down that site so far, there is literally nothing positive to be found there.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 16, 2023, 01:51:51 PM
I'm genuinely surprised nobody took down that site so far, there is literally nothing positive to be found there.
How do you take them down, though?

Remember, it's positive for the inmates in the asylum there. They don't get exposed to icky wrongthink. Anyone who disturbs their blissful ignorance gets disciplined or banned.

So any intervention would have to be from outside, which has its own problems. Hack it? Aside from being ethically dubious and  illegal, it'd have to be a pretty elaborate hack to permanently offline them.

I've speculated on someone buying out Dyvers Hands (the owners of RPGnet), but I've no idea how much the company is worth.

Legal action is a crapshoot, though I wonder if there'd be a prospect for someone given the heave ho who'd been a subscriber. Probably not; they'd be idiots to not write a contract that absolves them if they ban a person.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 16, 2023, 01:58:21 PM

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/scurrilous-infracted-thirty-day-ban-dismissive-of-minority-experiences.911252/
"Thirty days for not being properly pious towards our approved lived experiences."

Really it was for not being a fan of 90s X-men :D  I'm one off of a permanban now.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 16, 2023, 02:49:55 PM

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/scurrilous-infracted-thirty-day-ban-dismissive-of-minority-experiences.911252/
"Thirty days for not being properly pious towards our approved lived experiences."

Really it was for not being a fan of 90s X-men :D  I'm one off of a permanban now.
Some of those are coming across as the real reason being this or that particular moderator really not liking what someone posted.

I notice that this is another case where there are no bans for several days, and then all of a sudden there are 5 or 6 bans given. Looks like the mods may have had a struggle session just the day before to motivate them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 16, 2023, 03:47:40 PM
Yeah, most of my infractions have come a few days (even a couple weeks sometimes) later with some threatening noises about change or else.

I'm not sure if the mods are over worked or have to spend a couple days building a case.  But I'm pretty sure I've been on the shit list for a very long time, so it's a bit surprising to me.  Though I also wonder if my posts are so innocuous that it takes a long time for that one guy to wander through, get offended and report me.

I like to think there are vendettas and grudges involved but really I'm not a prominent poster and most of the people who remember me or think of me at all have long since left or been banned.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on June 17, 2023, 08:33:55 PM

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/scurrilous-infracted-thirty-day-ban-dismissive-of-minority-experiences.911252/
"Thirty days for not being properly pious towards our approved lived experiences."

Really it was for not being a fan of 90s X-men :D  I'm one off of a permanban now.

They were merciful then. Not being a fan of the 90's X-men cartoon should be a stoning offense. At the very least you should be electronically tagged, so normal people know where you are at all times.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 18, 2023, 02:01:25 AM
Well, to be fair I hated the nineties X-Men cartoon and loved X-Men Evolution.  But that's a pretty big, off topic flame war.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on June 18, 2023, 05:45:17 AM
Well, to be fair I hated the nineties X-Men cartoon and loved X-Men Evolution.

(https://i.giphy.com/media/6OpusTwW1csaQ/giphy.webp)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abbo1993 on June 18, 2023, 11:10:40 AM
Doesn't seem like they are banning people like they used to, they seem to be relying more on infractions these days, guess they did the math and figured they are running out of people to ban.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 18, 2023, 11:34:23 PM
Doesn't seem like they are banning people like they used to, they seem to be relying more on infractions these days, guess they did the math and figured they are running out of people to ban.
I think they've bagged most of if not all the easy targets. Now it'll be 'struggle sessions' and people getting smoked behind the scenes.

A number of mods have gone mysteriously quiet since '22. I suspect there was a power struggle and they lost. No great loss, obviously, but hey.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on June 19, 2023, 07:07:16 AM
I suspect that they're in for an influx soon.

I'm quite active over on Reddit and it is undergoing major shenanigans because of the API slactivist protests, which is leading Reddit to propose this absolutely bananas policy where users could vote moderators out. Presumably because they think most users don't support the protests and just want Reddit to work properly. This is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard; Reddit doesn't draw strong lines between membership in one community and another, so this enables whole new categories of brigading attacks. Far from stopping the protests; I think this will enable protesting because they will vote the mods out of any sub not yet participating.

So...there's a good chance of a mass Reddit exodus.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 19, 2023, 10:08:34 AM
Doesn't seem like they are banning people like they used to, they seem to be relying more on infractions these days, guess they did the math and figured they are running out of people to ban.
I think they've bagged most of if not all the easy targets. Now it'll be 'struggle sessions' and people getting smoked behind the scenes.

A number of mods have gone mysteriously quiet since '22. I suspect there was a power struggle and they lost. No great loss, obviously, but hey.
Tanka has basically disappeared shortly after the ban he gave me for acknowledging that Kyle Rittenhouse had a claim to self-defense that turned out to be successful. My appeals to the admin were ignored, my attempts to point that out were declared “press conferencing”. I think if I tried any further appeals the current mods would just use Tanka’s absence as an excuse to further ignore.

It’s difficult for me to see Tanka being on the losing side of a power struggle. I’d find more likely the absence to be that e ran into either personal health or legal troubles than somehow get purged.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abbo1993 on June 19, 2023, 10:19:43 AM
Can't say I give too much of a shit about what happens to them regardless, those psychos will start eating eachother at one point or another, I still don't understand why people keep posting on that place, there is literally 0 interesting content to be found and any aspiring creator would run the risk of killing their carreer before it started due to some non existent faux pas, the insane clout the fuckers seem to have is unbelievable to me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on June 19, 2023, 10:31:20 AM
Can't say I give too much of a shit about what happens to them regardless, those psychos will start eating eachother at one point or another, I still don't understand why people keep posting on that place, there is literally 0 interesting content to be found and any aspiring creator would run the risk of killing their carreer before it started due to some non existent faux pas, the insane clout the fuckers seem to have is unbelievable to me.
They have no clout at all.  That's the illusion they are trying to maintain, but it's just an illusion.  None of the people I game with even know that website exists.  None of the kids in my RPG club know that place exists.  They have a tiny slice of the gaming public posting there, and as its utility declines, so will that number.

I'd say let the site die in obscurity, but it's so amusing watching their insanity...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 19, 2023, 11:23:19 AM
Can't say I give too much of a shit about what happens to them regardless, those psychos will start eating eachother at one point or another, I still don't understand why people keep posting on that place, there is literally 0 interesting content to be found and any aspiring creator would run the risk of killing their carreer before it started due to some non existent faux pas, the insane clout the fuckers seem to have is unbelievable to me.
They have no clout at all.  That's the illusion they are trying to maintain, but it's just an illusion.  None of the people I game with even know that website exists.  None of the kids in my RPG club know that place exists.  They have a tiny slice of the gaming public posting there, and as its utility declines, so will that number.

I'd say let the site die in obscurity, but it's so amusing watching their insanity...

It's also useful as a bulwark, an assylum where the loonies (most of them) hang with each other. Remember when Tumblr had it's exodus what happened to other sites?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 19, 2023, 01:56:03 PM
I suspect that they're in for an influx soon.

I'm quite active over on Reddit and it is undergoing major shenanigans because of the API slactivist protests, which is leading Reddit to propose this absolutely bananas policy where users could vote moderators out. Presumably because they think most users don't support the protests and just want Reddit to work properly. This is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard; Reddit doesn't draw strong lines between membership in one community and another, so this enables whole new categories of brigading attacks. Far from stopping the protests; I think this will enable protesting because they will vote the mods out of any sub not yet participating.

So...there's a good chance of a mass Reddit exodus.
And the Reddit shitstorm's only exacerbated by Reddit admin removing mods from several high profile forums, replacing them with loyalists, and then removing the blackouts.

Hm. You may have a point.

Can't say I give too much of a shit about what happens to them regardless, those psychos will start eating eachother at one point or another, I still don't understand why people keep posting on that place, there is literally 0 interesting content to be found and any aspiring creator would run the risk of killing their carreer before it started due to some non existent faux pas, the insane clout the fuckers seem to have is unbelievable to me.
Fair enough. Here's my problem: it's called RPGnet.

I do not like the idea of some newbie wandering in there and thinking this is the quality of person you get in the community.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: RPGPundit on June 20, 2023, 12:45:31 AM
Can't say I give too much of a shit about what happens to them regardless, those psychos will start eating eachother at one point or another, I still don't understand why people keep posting on that place, there is literally 0 interesting content to be found and any aspiring creator would run the risk of killing their carreer before it started due to some non existent faux pas, the insane clout the fuckers seem to have is unbelievable to me.
They have no clout at all.  That's the illusion they are trying to maintain, but it's just an illusion.  None of the people I game with even know that website exists.  None of the kids in my RPG club know that place exists.  They have a tiny slice of the gaming public posting there, and as its utility declines, so will that number.

I'd say let the site die in obscurity, but it's so amusing watching their insanity...

No message forum still has any clout at all. All the clout to be found is on Youtube and Twitter.

But I'd daresay that in current year, theRPGsite still has more residual clout than rpgnet, because it's my forum and I still have clout, and its an OSR-heavy forum and the OSR has clout.  Even so, that's all just still residual to where the main action is (which again, is mostly Youtube).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 22, 2023, 03:39:44 PM
Ouch.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mithril-maiden-infracted-permanent-ban.911428/

I... am not sure where to begin with this. This wasn't a threadjack. This was 'hey, I am looking for input' thread and they went right to the banhammer. Then again, I suspect staff has had it in for Mithril Maiden ever since they ate a three-month for 'problematic posting' and of course the usual 'you don't show proper respect for indigenous peoples'.

MM should've known better. If someone handed me a three month ban, I'd just fuck right off and leave. Why stay when they clearly don't agree with you and are willing to banhammer you over anything the slightest bit disturbing?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Aglondir on June 22, 2023, 05:34:04 PM
Quote from: TPB
Appeals go to the admins, but will not be considered until six months have passed.

Six months? is that new?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 22, 2023, 05:36:05 PM
Ouch.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mithril-maiden-infracted-permanent-ban.911428/

I... am not sure where to begin with this. This wasn't a threadjack. This was 'hey, I am looking for input' thread and they went right to the banhammer. Then again, I suspect staff has had it in for Mithril Maiden ever since they ate a three-month for 'problematic posting' and of course the usual 'you don't show proper respect for indigenous peoples'.

MM should've known better. If someone handed me a three month ban, I'd just fuck right off and leave. Why stay when they clearly don't agree with you and are willing to banhammer you over anything the slightest bit disturbing?
Her post seems a bit of a rambling run-on apology, and a bit rambling attempt to come up with a pastiche setting where nothing politically incorrect occurs (colonialism, slavery, etc.), which seems not too dissimilar from what Coyote Crow attempts. However, Coyote Crow gets Woke accolades for its efforts.

I also think it’s self-serving that Third Kingdom simultaneously runs an rpg business, and is a mod at TBP where he gets to dictate what is “correct” game content.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 22, 2023, 07:42:21 PM
Quote from: TPB
Appeals go to the admins, but will not be considered until six months have passed.

Six months? is that new?

huh...I got thirty days with a candid only one more strike warning...I wonder how that works.  I've been thinking about what to do.  Given that I've been outright blindsided by my last half a dozen bans, I thought I might decide what my last words should be.  Probably "D&D Sucks!" rather than some incoherent political interpretation of my views on metaphors in fiction.

I've seen a lot of cases where a ban is quickly followed by a permaban, often even before the ban expires.  I suspect that's due to an "appeal" sent to the administrator but it might also be off site commentary.  There's no transparency afterall.

But no, I think I'll just quietly clean out my profile, change my password and log out.  I don't see why I should let them celebrate another mighty victory for the cause.

*edit* oh okay I see, it's a permanent ban with six months before an appeal will be considered.  Interesting, perhaps that's what mine would look like too.  Ah well, I'm past the point of caring.  I'm just gonna permanently ban them premptively.  I guess they can ban us all.  Hard on the ad revenues though.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Klytus on June 22, 2023, 08:14:36 PM
I also think it’s self-serving that Third Kingdom simultaneously runs an rpg business, and is a mod at TBP where he gets to dictate what is “correct” game content.

Fuuuuuckkk!!! I never noticed they were a mod at TBP. I've actually given money to that shit weasel.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Aglondir on June 22, 2023, 10:00:35 PM
*edit* oh okay I see, it's a permanent ban with six months before an appeal will be considered.  Interesting, perhaps that's what mine would look like too.  Ah well, I'm past the point of caring.  I'm just gonna permanently ban them premptively.  I guess they can ban us all.  Hard on the ad revenues though.

I'm not sure if it's worse, since you have to wait 6 months for them to even consider an appeal; or if it is an improvement, since previously they just ignored appeals (LOL)

I've always get a chuckle out of the word "appeal." I imagine that 90% of the "appeals" are complaints about the mods.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on June 22, 2023, 10:28:05 PM
Ouch.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mithril-maiden-infracted-permanent-ban.911428/

I... am not sure where to begin with this. This wasn't a threadjack. This was 'hey, I am looking for input' thread and they went right to the banhammer. Then again, I suspect staff has had it in for Mithril Maiden ever since they ate a three-month for 'problematic posting' and of course the usual 'you don't show proper respect for indigenous peoples'.

MM should've known better. If someone handed me a three month ban, I'd just fuck right off and leave. Why stay when they clearly don't agree with you and are willing to banhammer you over anything the slightest bit disturbing?

I don't feel sorry for that dumb bitch.  She sniveled, whined, crawled on her belly, and bent over backwards to establish her libtarded bona fides in that book-length post and they still banned her because there's nobody over there left to ban but their own kind.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 22, 2023, 11:11:52 PM
Ouch.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/mithril-maiden-infracted-permanent-ban.911428/

I... am not sure where to begin with this. This wasn't a threadjack. This was 'hey, I am looking for input' thread and they went right to the banhammer. Then again, I suspect staff has had it in for Mithril Maiden ever since they ate a three-month for 'problematic posting' and of course the usual 'you don't show proper respect for indigenous peoples'.

MM should've known better. If someone handed me a three month ban, I'd just fuck right off and leave. Why stay when they clearly don't agree with you and are willing to banhammer you over anything the slightest bit disturbing?

I don't feel sorry for that dumb bitch.  She sniveled, whined, crawled on her belly, and bent over backwards to establish her libtarded bona fides in that book-length post and they still banned her because there's nobody over there left to ban but their own kind.
I think there’s some room for a little sympathy for her. She’s a victim of the Woke cult by virtue of being a low level member of it. Her groveling was pitiable. Perhaps only day she’ll manage to escape the cult. It’s the cult enforcers I get angry at.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 23, 2023, 12:11:22 AM
The problem, of course, is they were running out of enemies and had to move the goal posts some so they could attack those who didn't get the memo.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 23, 2023, 09:01:13 AM
I also think it’s self-serving that Third Kingdom simultaneously runs an rpg business, and is a mod at TBP where he gets to dictate what is “correct” game content.
That is a massive conflict of interest. I am shocked. Shocked! Well, not that shocked. *snort*

I don't feel sorry for that dumb bitch.  She sniveled, whined, crawled on her belly, and bent over backwards to establish her libtarded bona fides in that book-length post and they still banned her because there's nobody over there left to ban but their own kind.
I am reminded of The Gulag Archipelago, and how so many inmates would insist it was all a mistake even as they were convicted and shipped off. That Comrade Stalin would surely send word that it was all a huge misunderstanding.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abbo1993 on June 23, 2023, 09:37:28 AM
This Third Kingdom is a publisher or designer? I didn't see his name on the list.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 23, 2023, 09:49:08 AM
This Third Kingdom is a publisher or designer? I didn't see his name on the list.
Both I believe, as well as just starting his own game store. He’s on the small side. Putting him on the list would likely generate a lot of free publicity. As to the content of his products I couldn’t speak to that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on June 23, 2023, 10:18:12 AM
The problem, of course, is they were running out of enemies and had to move the goal posts some so they could attack those who didn't get the memo.

Yep, credit to tenbones for this observation as well: It's a purity spiral.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 23, 2023, 01:52:00 PM
I wonder how much revenue the infractions forum generates due to hits.  My ban did a thousand views in under a week.  None of my game design threads have ever come close :D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on June 25, 2023, 11:56:31 AM
I wonder how much revenue the infractions forum generates due to hits.  My ban did a thousand views in under a week.  None of my game design threads have ever come close :D

This makes me wonder if the banning is an arranged form of self-promotion. Even if your politics is majorly demented, I still don't see how you can torture what MM did into justifying a ban; I have to conclude there's an ulterior motive. Advertisement revenue makes about as much sense as anything else.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 25, 2023, 02:22:01 PM
I wonder how much revenue the infractions forum generates due to hits.  My ban did a thousand views in under a week.  None of my game design threads have ever come close :D

This makes me wonder if the banning is an arranged form of self-promotion. Even if your politics is majorly demented, I still don't see how you can torture what MM did into justifying a ban; I have to conclude there's an ulterior motive. Advertisement revenue makes about as much sense as anything else.
That's an insane idea, but I'll be honest, I can't come up with a good reason why not.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 25, 2023, 04:16:58 PM
Well, in view racing terms she was gaining on me and has over taken me.  I guess it's all just a popularity contest in the end.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Darrin Kelley on June 26, 2023, 09:49:07 PM
Well, the inevitable happened. The thugs over at RPG.net banned me permanently. It's no loss. I have no desire to go back. Because they proved what they were long ago.

They showed long ago that they would make up any lame-brained excuse to be rid of me. I'm actually surprised it took this long.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 26, 2023, 10:37:39 PM
Awe man!  Some guy named NathanS is almost caught up to my views on a 3 day ban.

When I look at Mirthil Maiden and Darrin Kelley's bans as well as my own it seems to be a crime to discuss how things relate to one's own experience these days.  Personally, I'm guessing it's more of a housekeeping thing.  There's been a shift in the balance of power backstage and they're looking for any excuse to knock off problem posters as fast as they can before things shift again.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Darrin Kelley on June 26, 2023, 10:52:08 PM
I don't care what their excuses are. They have been actively harassing me for over 20 years. And I've finally had enough of it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on June 26, 2023, 11:08:44 PM
I don't care what their excuses are. They have been actively harassing me for over 20 years. And I've finally had enough of it.

I have to ask: Why did you put up with it for so long?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Darrin Kelley on June 26, 2023, 11:14:08 PM
I have to ask: Why did you put up with it for so long?

I got used to the abuse. Much like how I endured my abusive childhood.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abbo1993 on June 27, 2023, 06:50:26 AM
I really don't understand why people keep posting there, aside from the assholes who run the place, I really didn't find anything worth reading in there and constructive conversation about potentially interesting topics get constantly shut down by the nazis running the place , really it's only some token posts about mainstream games who then quickly take a tangent towards circle jerking navel gazing between mental cases with delusions of virtue, really there is no quality content to be found in that shithole.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 27, 2023, 08:10:30 AM
It can be hard to extricate yourself from an abusive relationship. But take heart, Mr. Kelley, now you are free.

I admit, your ban message (written by hyper-retard Dawgstar) was particularly amusing in its egotism:
Quote
You need no longer fear the mines, for we are sending you to the realms of Solitaire.
That is some honest to God arrogance on their part. Well, they're welcome to it. They can believe themselves the 'pure' if they like. Fuck 'em.

Welcome to the mosh pit.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Darrin Kelley on June 27, 2023, 09:03:28 AM
Honestly? I didn't really pay attention to their ban message. I was fed up with their pontificating before I skimmed it. I've read too many of their infractions that were just so full of ego and self-righteousness. I was done.

I'm letting their ban remain permanent. I am not going to appeal it in six months. They are not going to make me crawl or beg. I'm done.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 27, 2023, 10:00:35 AM
The problem is that they have a large, diverse community and that has its uses.  For a long time it was the epic Where I Read X-Men thread that kept me coming back.  I guess you can't really discuss X-Men anymore because it's a minority rights minefield.  I got banned for comparing them to other fictional groups like the The Elders of Zion and billionaires.  I can't believe I forgot to use the Illuminati.

The solution is to work on making other spaces more interesting and inviting.  In the early days rpg.net moderation was upset that the culture it had created was mean and uninviting and not well respected elsewhere.  They wanted to clean up everyone's act except their own.

Even so, the solution is to talk about games and gaming more and dial back attacks on games that suck.  I got to be an anti-D&D troll because I was sick of people coming on every GURPS And Rolemaster thread to declare how much they hated the games I liked.  I got my first ban for saying that D&D had more players and as a result had more "cat piss men" heh remember cat piss men?  Saying that's a banning offense now.

Never the less, the road to making rpgnet a fairy tale about the rise of fascism to scare children is to be more interesting and talk more about games and less about the politicisation of games and build better, friendlier communities.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abbo1993 on June 27, 2023, 10:21:39 AM
I'm actually curious as to how many of the original founders and mods remain on the site.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on June 27, 2023, 11:48:12 AM
Just pull up an old thread and look at the body count.  You'll see banned user after banned user.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on June 27, 2023, 01:06:31 PM
Just pull up an old thread and look at the body count.  You'll see banned user after banned user.

Both the left and the right, when they become extreme enough, turn actively anti-human.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 27, 2023, 02:51:23 PM
The problem is that they have a large, diverse community and that has its uses.  For a long time it was the epic Where I Read X-Men thread that kept me coming back.  I guess you can't really discuss X-Men anymore because it's a minority rights minefield.  I got banned for comparing them to other fictional groups like the The Elders of Zion and billionaires.  I can't believe I forgot to use the Illuminati.

The solution is to work on making other spaces more interesting and inviting.  In the early days rpg.net moderation was upset that the culture it had created was mean and uninviting and not well respected elsewhere.  They wanted to clean up everyone's act except their own.

Even so, the solution is to talk about games and gaming more and dial back attacks on games that suck.  I got to be an anti-D&D troll because I was sick of people coming on every GURPS And Rolemaster thread to declare how much they hated the games I liked.  I got my first ban for saying that D&D had more players and as a result had more "cat piss men" heh remember cat piss men?  Saying that's a banning offense now.

Never the less, the road to making rpgnet a fairy tale about the rise of fascism to scare children is to be more interesting and talk more about games and less about the politicisation of games and build better, friendlier communities.

You can have a "safe, "Diverse", welcoming & Inviting" Communiteh or you can have a free (as in freedom) forum, you can't have both.

In this same forum we have "liberals", socialists, commies, "progressives" and right wingers, Christians, Jews, Pagans, Atheists, etc. we used to have nazis but they couldn't stop spewing antisemitism so they got banned along with a few leftists (disregarding that nazis ARE leftist) who ALSO vomited antisemitism. IMHO you don't get more diverse than that.

So, if all those types of people can and do post here I claim this forum to be more "inclusive", "diverse, and inviting than any other forum out there.

The problem with moderation is that the type of people who WANT to be moderators shouldn't, I got banned from a Linux forum for posting offtopic stuff... On the offtopic subforum!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on June 27, 2023, 04:34:59 PM
I don’t recall any Nazis on this board who identified themselves as such, until people grokked that that was where their anti-semitism was coming from. I recall one case where it seemed the guy sounded like he was having some kind of mental health breakdown. There seems to be some overlap between some instances of mental illness and anti-semitism. At the end of the day, I’m not a therapist (nor is this forum) and I give up on making a huge distinction on where the anti-semitism is coming from.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 27, 2023, 07:34:39 PM

You can have a "safe, "Diverse", welcoming & Inviting" Communiteh or you can have a free (as in freedom) forum, you can't have both.

Who said anything about "safe"  :D

Really, I'm not even sure I'm talking about this forum in particular or even the rpgpub which is safe from everything but geese and thread derails.  Therpgsite is a war room.  I'm honestly not sure it can grow beyond that.  The pub is a bunker, it's safe and even friendly enough but you have to dance around political issues like a highland dancing ballerina, fast footwork, flexibility, and high leaps.

Even so, a friendly and welcoming forum would be more likely to grow to rival or unseat rpg.net.


Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on June 27, 2023, 08:03:52 PM

You can have a "safe, "Diverse", welcoming & Inviting" Communiteh or you can have a free (as in freedom) forum, you can't have both.

Who said anything about "safe"  :D

Really, I'm not even sure I'm talking about this forum in particular or even the rpgpub which is safe from everything but geese and thread derails.  Therpgsite is a war room.  I'm honestly not sure it can grow beyond that.  The pub is a bunker, it's safe and even friendly enough but you have to dance around political issues like a highland dancing ballerina, fast footwork, flexibility, and high leaps.

Even so, a friendly and welcoming forum would be more likely to grow to rival or unseat rpg.net.

So you think an unsafe site can be "inviting, welcoming and friendly"? I posit it can't. Except to freedom loving istophobes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 27, 2023, 08:39:40 PM
I guess it depends what you mean by "safe" these days.  If you mean the absence of any negative stimulus or shocks I suppose you might be right.  But then one always gets into the question of safe from what and who?  Is rpg.net "safe" I think not, it's a minefield.  Is therpgsite "safe" not at all.  Is the rpgpub "safe" not really though it is fairly friendly and there is some good gaming discussion there.  Not really enough depth and diversity of interests yet.

But yes, I think "safe" as it is used these days in the sense of "safe spaces" is anything but friendly and inviting.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on June 27, 2023, 10:13:44 PM
Greetings!

The RPG site is somehow "Not Safe?" The RPG Site is not friendly?

I have always felt that TheRPGSite has been friendly to me. Furthermore, I have made it a point to always be welcoming and friendly to new members here.

How are regular members here supposed to be friendly and welcoming?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 27, 2023, 10:45:13 PM
It's a rough and tumble place and prone to explosions of hostility.  It's not that these things aren't virtues in their own right (I wouldn't post here at all if I didn't think they were) but they haven't produced a community to rival rpg.net over all these years and they won't.  I think the hardest thing would be handling the pearl clutching lunatics of the woke movement.  If allowed to work their usual methods they will overrun any forum as surely as they have rpg.net and so many others.  I think ruthless banning would probably be most effective.  "You don't like orcs?  GTFO"  Is that friendly enough I wonder?  There's a reason I'm not a mod anywhere.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on June 27, 2023, 11:15:10 PM
It's a rough and tumble place and prone to explosions of hostility.

That's what freedom looks like.

I know, you don't want a safe space, you just want a nice place, where non-political mods ensure people stay polite, by using common sense dictates. The place you want was RPGnet in the past, and it always, inevitably becomes RPGnet today.

It's like when people say they want to go back to how things were in the 90's, not realizing that the way things were then lead to how they are now.


“When I am Weaker Than You, I ask you for Freedom because that is according to your principles. When I am Stronger than you, I take away your Freedom Because that is according to my principles.”
― Frank Herbert, Children of Dune
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abbo1993 on June 28, 2023, 07:34:42 AM
It's not like rpg net is polite or anything, the mods shit talk people all the time and you can get away with basically anything as long as it's against the enemies of the party, they seem to have toned down outright death threats and the more virulent forms of slander (probably after Macris threatened to fuck them up the ass in court) but they are still scum and possibly the last place on the internet where I would feel "safe", mostly because they've gone after posters for out of forum activity which is incredibly disturbing on multiple levels.

Regarding the site, I kinda like it here, aside from some people seeing politics everywhere and getting into slap fights over it (which are definitely a good form of entertainment for me), you can actually discuss games and express opinions without getting banned, doxxed or have people attempt to ruin your real life because they don't agree with you which is definitely what I think first regarding safe spaces rather than worrying about a random asshole on the internet calling me names.

The rpg pub is also pretty nice and I really don't mind the no politics rule, I just hope it stays this way without degenerating like rpg net did, it really doesn't take too much to give the crazies they key to the madhouse...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 28, 2023, 09:31:29 AM
It's a rough and tumble place and prone to explosions of hostility.

That's what freedom looks like.

I know, you don't want a safe space, you just want a nice place, where non-political mods ensure people stay polite, by using common sense dictates. The place you want was RPGnet in the past, and it always, inevitably becomes RPGnet today.

It's like when people say they want to go back to how things were in the 90's, not realizing that the way things were then lead to how they are now.


“When I am Weaker Than You, I ask you for Freedom because that is according to your principles. When I am Stronger than you, I take away your Freedom Because that is according to my principles.”
― Frank Herbert, Children of Dune

Well, I can't argue with St. Herbert now, can I? :D

But you're right that I'd like a return to the early days of rpg.net, maybe minus Darren McKlennan as a moderator.  But that's not what's needed to make rpgnet an irrelevant artifact of the past that doesn't even get a foot note in history.

One of the issues we face is that gaming companies are always looking to grow their market.  So, to them an influx of gender fluid, kids with colored hair probably looks like a huge boon.  I'm not so sure those kids are posting on forums in large numbers, it's all about Tic Tok these days.  Isn't that like a Chinese government spy bot?

Another thing a gaming site would need to be is more like Dragon magazine in the eighties.  Full of really good content and ads for lots of cool games.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 28, 2023, 10:31:59 AM

Another thing a gaming site would need to be is more like Dragon magazine in the eighties.  Full of really good content and ads for lots of cool games.
That last bit amuses me because a lot of the fluff and mechanics discussions I see even nowadays date back to the days of Dragon's Forum section. :) But you're not wrong.

One of the biggest problems we face these days is how social media acts as a massive noise multiplier. Companies think there's this vast groundswell of support for this or that policy, when in actuality it's not all that big. I call this 'chasing the phantom demographic' because invariably companies take a hit when they alienate their existing customers to chase after this illusionary new market. You could call it the Bud Light Effect, in fact.

Companies need to hire people who are savvy enough to not be fooled by social media trends (which are often being promoted for self-serving or nefarious ends).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on June 28, 2023, 12:06:21 PM
I love checking into this thread every so often and seeing the ridiculousness to which TBP continues to descend. It's like watching a sitcom. I can tune in when I want a quick laugh and tune out when I have better things to do. And I always know there will be a new season of TBP: The SJW Story waiting for me when I need it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 28, 2023, 01:50:25 PM
I wonder if it will end like the Elric cycle.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on June 28, 2023, 11:31:32 PM
I wonder if it will end like the Elric cycle.

RPGnet is the Eternal Champion...of cringe.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on June 28, 2023, 11:44:56 PM
I was thinking the autoban feature would ban Cannibal Smiley last saying, "farewell sweet prince, I was eviler than thee."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on June 29, 2023, 02:26:18 PM
The RPG site is somehow "Not Safe?" The RPG Site is not friendly?
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m88s5zkIAg1ro2c2ro2_r1_400.gif)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on June 29, 2023, 09:53:03 PM
Any platform that is not explicitly Right leaning, eventually becomes Left wing. And even many of those on the Right succumb to the Left in time, just look at what's happening to National Review.

The battle for liberty, morality, human nobility, personal responsibility, and sanity never ends for the Right, each new generation must pick up their cross and carry it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on June 29, 2023, 10:06:32 PM
Any platform that is not explicitly Right leaning, eventually becomes Left wing. And even many of those on the Right succumb to the Left in time, just look at what's happening to National Review.

The battle for liberty, morality, human nobility, personal responsibility, and sanity never ends for the Right, each new generation must pick up their cross and carry it.

That's because true conservatism is about preserving values; if you believe your values are mutable, then you really don't have any in the first place.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on June 30, 2023, 07:33:56 AM

Another thing a gaming site would need to be is more like Dragon magazine in the eighties.  Full of really good content and ads for lots of cool games.
That last bit amuses me because a lot of the fluff and mechanics discussions I see even nowadays date back to the days of Dragon's Forum section. :) But you're not wrong.

One of the biggest problems we face these days is how social media acts as a massive noise multiplier. Companies think there's this vast groundswell of support for this or that policy, when in actuality it's not all that big. I call this 'chasing the phantom demographic' because invariably companies take a hit when they alienate their existing customers to chase after this illusionary new market. You could call it the Bud Light Effect, in fact.

Companies need to hire people who are savvy enough to not be fooled by social media trends (which are often being promoted for self-serving or nefarious ends).

I've been thinking about this a fair bit, and I think it ties into the dead internet theory. Large sites attract large bot networks because you can use bots to influence millions of people. Small websites make that practically impossible.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 30, 2023, 07:56:26 AM

Another thing a gaming site would need to be is more like Dragon magazine in the eighties.  Full of really good content and ads for lots of cool games.
That last bit amuses me because a lot of the fluff and mechanics discussions I see even nowadays date back to the days of Dragon's Forum section. :) But you're not wrong.

One of the biggest problems we face these days is how social media acts as a massive noise multiplier. Companies think there's this vast groundswell of support for this or that policy, when in actuality it's not all that big. I call this 'chasing the phantom demographic' because invariably companies take a hit when they alienate their existing customers to chase after this illusionary new market. You could call it the Bud Light Effect, in fact.

Companies need to hire people who are savvy enough to not be fooled by social media trends (which are often being promoted for self-serving or nefarious ends).

I've been thinking about this a fair bit, and I think it ties into the dead internet theory. Large sites attract large bot networks because you can use bots to influence millions of people. Small websites make that practically impossible.
Heh. Dunno if you heard about this, but social app IRL (what a name, right?) is shutting down because of its 20 million users, 95% were identified as bots or automated accounts.

https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/26/irl-shut-down-fake-users/

What a game. 'Who is real and who is not?'
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on June 30, 2023, 08:49:17 PM
I know, you don't want a safe space, you just want a nice place, where non-political mods ensure people stay polite, by using common sense dictates. The place you want was RPGnet in the past, and it always, inevitably becomes RPGnet today.

I beg to differ. My chatroom, Randomworlds (see link in sig), has been a nice place where non-political mods ensure people stay polite using common sense dictates for over two decades.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on July 01, 2023, 02:38:42 PM
I know, you don't want a safe space, you just want a nice place, where non-political mods ensure people stay polite, by using common sense dictates. The place you want was RPGnet in the past, and it always, inevitably becomes RPGnet today.

I beg to differ. My chatroom, Randomworlds (see link in sig), has been a nice place where non-political mods ensure people stay polite using common sense dictates for over two decades.
Cool. Joined.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on July 01, 2023, 02:41:17 PM

I beg to differ. My chatroom, Randomworlds (see link in sig), has been a nice place where non-political mods ensure people stay polite using common sense dictates for over two decades.
Cool. Joined.

Nice! What nick are you using? :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on July 01, 2023, 02:47:14 PM
Gort
:)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on July 03, 2023, 10:46:54 AM
I know, you don't want a safe space, you just want a nice place, where non-political mods ensure people stay polite, by using common sense dictates. The place you want was RPGnet in the past, and it always, inevitably becomes RPGnet today.

I beg to differ. My chatroom, Randomworlds (see link in sig), has been a nice place where non-political mods ensure people stay polite using common sense dictates for over two decades.

Even if I believed a random stranger on the internet, your personal idea of what words like 'nice,' 'polite,' and 'common sense' could vary wildly from mine.

What you actually mean is you have a place you've terraformed to feel good to you. Which is fine, but don't delude yourself that you have some universally accepted morals or tastes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on July 03, 2023, 02:45:34 PM
I beg to differ. My chatroom, Randomworlds (see link in sig), has been a nice place where non-political mods ensure people stay polite using common sense dictates for over two decades.

Even if I believed a random stranger on the internet, your personal idea of what words like 'nice,' 'polite,' and 'common sense' could vary wildly from mine.

What you actually mean is you have a place you've terraformed to feel good to you. Which is fine, but don't delude yourself that you have some universally accepted morals or tastes.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on July 04, 2023, 04:40:45 AM
That's because true conservatism is about preserving values; if you believe your values are mutable, then you really don't have any in the first place.

True conservatism isn't about worshipping the ashes of the past, put preserving the flame for future generations.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 20, 2023, 09:16:30 AM
And TBP is about preserving insanity and incoherence.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dirk-desiato-infracted-thirty-day-ban-see-redtext.912164/

Notable: this comes from the generic RPG Admins account, not any single one.

Also notable: the redtext screed is deranged as fuck. Let's dust for prints.

Quote
The presumption of innocence is for the court of law, not for protecting the reputations of the powerful.
Getting off to a running start here. Anyone here think they're still feeling butthurt after a couple passes in the legal jousting arena by Zak S or Alex Macris?

Quote
Standards of innocence and guilt exist to prevent lynchings, show trials, and other abuses of the often monstrous power of the state. They don't exist to prevent private individuals from having opinions.
Except that as we've seen, private individuals have used their 'opinions' (often stated as facts) to blatantly defame people.

Quote
Canadian lawyer Michael Spratt argues that attempting to make legal presumption of innocence into an extralegal imperative diminishes it as a legal right, as much a danger to civil liberties as the creep of state power undermining it in the courtroom.
One, I don't give a fuck what some Canuckistan lawyer says, and two, equating the presumption of innocence with statist authoritarianism is retarded.

Quote
Because of social mores, historical precedent, and the nuances of the law, most rapists never face legal consequences of any sort. Insisting that even the most obvious pattern of predatory behavior must be ignored absent a legal conviction is extremely frustrating for everyone else. It's especially unpleasant for rape survivors. They're called liars to their faces because legal systems around the world don't deliver the justice they promise.
Translation: 'We think it should be legal to mistreat people for unproven allegations.'

Quote
Some of the most infamous serial predators were only unmasked late in their lives or after their deaths, long after any conviction was likely or even possible. Jimmy Saville, host of Jim'll Fix It, wasn't exposed until after his death.
I'm a bit surprised they went there. Saville's crimes were enabled by his powerful, elite friends, after all -- much like Jeffrey Epstein.

Quote
The subject is complicated. False or mistaken allegations do happen. But social bias disproportionately and overwhelmingly tends to dismiss true allegations as malicious falsehoods or mistaken more often than the reverse, especially in the case of powerful and famous individuals.
They come so close to admitting there's a problem here on both sides -- the degeneracy of the neo-aristocratic elites, and the contemptible false charges that get slung around. But they just can't make the cognitive jump.

Quote
In this case specifically, multiple survivors have and are continuing to come forth with similar stories about a celebrity who was in a position of power over them. The individual in question is not going to be imprisoned or otherwise punished by government officials without a trial proving guilt, so there's absolutely no need for you to even bring up the legal standard.
Multiple zeroes are still zero. There were multiple witnesses that testified at the Salem witch trials, too -- does that make them legitimate?

Quote
We get that you're doubting the accusations, but you're misrepresenting the legal system. You're invoking the "rule of law," but, in the countries in question, the law doesn't prohibit accusations or manage public opinion.
This is unintentionally hilarious as Germany actually does manage public opinion and does not have true freedom of speech.

Quote
"Rule of Law" doesn't mean not to believe survivors. In fact, somebody has to -- that's how indictments happen.

And no law nor principle demands that you speak up in defense of a credibly accused serial rapist. You imply that it's unfair of others to believe the accusers. Nobody here is calling for him to be jailed without trial. It's extremely disingenuous for you to pretend that mere criticism is equivalent to that.

Celebrities credibly accused of sexual predation have money, lawyers, and often PR firms. This man has no shortage of resources to fight back. There's no need to appoint yourself Devil's Advocate.
Dirk's statement was that he wanted Till Lindemann to have his day in court. It is painfully clear that TBP admins would prefer the man be lynched.

How progressive of them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Scooter on July 20, 2023, 11:48:05 AM
It's been a few years since I was banned from RPG.net for disagreeing with some Mod's opinion of some game. If I still had an account though,

"We've added a new feature on the forums: Pride flags for a variety of queer identities!

You can add flags to your posts by going to your Account Details page.

If you'd like us to add a flag we don't currently have, let us know in the forum thread where we're collecting feedback."

I'd suggest adding a Straight Pride flag to the mix.   

(https://media.tenor.com/wk3S3qpEAFAAAAAM/kuz-torched.gif)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on July 20, 2023, 01:22:04 PM
Dirk's statement was that he wanted Till Lindemann to have his day in court. It is painfully clear that TBP admins would prefer the man be lynched.

Oh, let's be fair, they didn't actually demand that Lindemann get lynched. All they're demanding is that nobody be allowed to argue on a TBP forum that he shouldn't be. Big difference. [/sarc]
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abbo1993 on July 20, 2023, 02:14:58 PM
I guess I shouldn't be surprised anymore about the overabundance of cromosomes among the rpg net mods but somehow, they still manage to outdo themselves at every turn, I'm low key impressed to be honest.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on August 31, 2023, 04:06:29 PM
Ok, this has nothing to do with TBP, other than it is a window into the madness that is Woke thinking.

Parents living in San Francisco have to put their children into a lottery. What is this lottery about? So for the sake of fairness children are randomly shuffled around the various schools within San Francisco so that some poor disadvantaged children go to the wealthier schools. While some children of wealthy go to the poorer schools. Also to mix up the various ethnicities.

So, this madness leads to kids being bussed all around San Francisco. You could live in the Outer Sunset and your kid has to be on a bus for 2 hours to go to the inner city or Mission Bay (the worst part of SF). All the parents hope is for a good lottery pull. How they reconcile this with environmentalism, I don't know, understanding cognitive dissonance in the brains of the Woke is beyond me.

This is their definition of "fairness".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Nameless Mist on August 31, 2023, 04:32:55 PM
Ok, this has nothing to do with TBP, other than it is a window into the madness that is Woke thinking.

Parents living in San Francisco have to put their children into a lottery. What is this lottery about? So for the sake of fairness children are randomly shuffled around the various schools within San Francisco so that some poor disadvantaged children go to the wealthier schools. While some children of wealthy go to the poorer schools. Also to mix up the various ethnicities.

So, this madness leads to kids being bussed all around San Francisco. You could live in the Outer Sunset and your kid has to be on a bus for 2 hours to go to the inner city or Mission Bay (the worst part of SF). All the parents hope is for a good lottery pull. How they reconcile this with environmentalism, I don't know, understanding cognitive dissonance in the brains of the Woke is beyond me.

This is their definition of "fairness".

I'm sure many wealthy parents pay the right people for "better odds."  These schemes always involve a lot of backroom deals.  It's like how rent control just means giving highly coveted apartments to relatives or friends of politicians.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abbo1993 on August 31, 2023, 08:02:50 PM
Ok, this has nothing to do with TBP, other than it is a window into the madness that is Woke thinking.

Parents living in San Francisco have to put their children into a lottery. What is this lottery about? So for the sake of fairness children are randomly shuffled around the various schools within San Francisco so that some poor disadvantaged children go to the wealthier schools. While some children of wealthy go to the poorer schools. Also to mix up the various ethnicities.

So, this madness leads to kids being bussed all around San Francisco. You could live in the Outer Sunset and your kid has to be on a bus for 2 hours to go to the inner city or Mission Bay (the worst part of SF). All the parents hope is for a good lottery pull. How they reconcile this with environmentalism, I don't know, understanding cognitive dissonance in the brains of the Woke is beyond me.

This is their definition of "fairness".

Is this mandatory or can the parents tell whichever nazi is in charge of this to go choke on a bag of STDs infected cocks?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Scooter on August 31, 2023, 08:21:10 PM

Is this mandatory or can the parents tell whichever nazi is in charge of this to go choke on a bag of STDs infected cocks?

Well since the libtards already got smacked for mandatory bussing by the SC it's probably voluntary stupidity and child abuse
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on September 02, 2023, 10:27:07 AM
And TBP is about preserving insanity and incoherence.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/dirk-desiato-infracted-thirty-day-ban-see-redtext.912164/

Notable: this comes from the generic RPG Admins account, not any single one.

Also notable: the redtext screed is deranged as fuck. Let's dust for prints.

Quote
The presumption of innocence is for the court of law, not for protecting the reputations of the powerful.
Getting off to a running start here. Anyone here think they're still feeling butthurt after a couple passes in the legal jousting arena by Zak S or Alex Macris?

Quote
Standards of innocence and guilt exist to prevent lynchings, show trials, and other abuses of the often monstrous power of the state. They don't exist to prevent private individuals from having opinions.
Except that as we've seen, private individuals have used their 'opinions' (often stated as facts) to blatantly defame people.

Quote
Canadian lawyer Michael Spratt argues that attempting to make legal presumption of innocence into an extralegal imperative diminishes it as a legal right, as much a danger to civil liberties as the creep of state power undermining it in the courtroom.
One, I don't give a fuck what some Canuckistan lawyer says, and two, equating the presumption of innocence with statist authoritarianism is retarded.

Quote
Because of social mores, historical precedent, and the nuances of the law, most rapists never face legal consequences of any sort. Insisting that even the most obvious pattern of predatory behavior must be ignored absent a legal conviction is extremely frustrating for everyone else. It's especially unpleasant for rape survivors. They're called liars to their faces because legal systems around the world don't deliver the justice they promise.
Translation: 'We think it should be legal to mistreat people for unproven allegations.'

Quote
Some of the most infamous serial predators were only unmasked late in their lives or after their deaths, long after any conviction was likely or even possible. Jimmy Saville, host of Jim'll Fix It, wasn't exposed until after his death.
I'm a bit surprised they went there. Saville's crimes were enabled by his powerful, elite friends, after all -- much like Jeffrey Epstein.

Quote
The subject is complicated. False or mistaken allegations do happen. But social bias disproportionately and overwhelmingly tends to dismiss true allegations as malicious falsehoods or mistaken more often than the reverse, especially in the case of powerful and famous individuals.
They come so close to admitting there's a problem here on both sides -- the degeneracy of the neo-aristocratic elites, and the contemptible false charges that get slung around. But they just can't make the cognitive jump.

Quote
In this case specifically, multiple survivors have and are continuing to come forth with similar stories about a celebrity who was in a position of power over them. The individual in question is not going to be imprisoned or otherwise punished by government officials without a trial proving guilt, so there's absolutely no need for you to even bring up the legal standard.
Multiple zeroes are still zero. There were multiple witnesses that testified at the Salem witch trials, too -- does that make them legitimate?

Quote
We get that you're doubting the accusations, but you're misrepresenting the legal system. You're invoking the "rule of law," but, in the countries in question, the law doesn't prohibit accusations or manage public opinion.
This is unintentionally hilarious as Germany actually does manage public opinion and does not have true freedom of speech.

Quote
"Rule of Law" doesn't mean not to believe survivors. In fact, somebody has to -- that's how indictments happen.

And no law nor principle demands that you speak up in defense of a credibly accused serial rapist. You imply that it's unfair of others to believe the accusers. Nobody here is calling for him to be jailed without trial. It's extremely disingenuous for you to pretend that mere criticism is equivalent to that.

Celebrities credibly accused of sexual predation have money, lawyers, and often PR firms. This man has no shortage of resources to fight back. There's no need to appoint yourself Devil's Advocate.
Dirk's statement was that he wanted Till Lindemann to have his day in court. It is painfully clear that TBP admins would prefer the man be lynched.

How progressive of them.

Somehow all of this didn’t matter with Gamergate. Zoe Quinn was accused of all sorts of abusive behaviors, but you were banned if said you believed any of it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 03, 2023, 04:51:07 PM
Ok, this has nothing to do with TBP, other than it is a window into the madness that is Woke thinking.

Parents living in San Francisco have to put their children into a lottery. What is this lottery about? So for the sake of fairness children are randomly shuffled around the various schools within San Francisco so that some poor disadvantaged children go to the wealthier schools. While some children of wealthy go to the poorer schools. Also to mix up the various ethnicities.

So, this madness leads to kids being bussed all around San Francisco. You could live in the Outer Sunset and your kid has to be on a bus for 2 hours to go to the inner city or Mission Bay (the worst part of SF). All the parents hope is for a good lottery pull. How they reconcile this with environmentalism, I don't know, understanding cognitive dissonance in the brains of the Woke is beyond me.

This is their definition of "fairness".

I'm sure many wealthy parents pay the right people for "better odds."  These schemes always involve a lot of backroom deals.  It's like how rent control just means giving highly coveted apartments to relatives or friends of politicians.

  Highly doubtful.  Wealthy people are not sending their kids to public school in san fran.  Middle class...maybe and I am sure some even explain away their kid getting shit on going to school with lay abouts feral kids.  I suspect what really happens in wealthy people send their kids to private school, middle class parents who can send their kids to private school if they have to take a second job or work 80 hours to do it, and people who have taken a big drink of the kool aid (remember old jim jones did A LOT to lay the ground work for the political structure in san fran today) send their kids into the lottery (poor people dont have a choice).  I think alot of the same people who send their kids into a lottery like that are the same parents who chop their kid's junk and feed them drugs to change their sex if the kid "questions" on a whim. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on September 04, 2023, 10:28:48 PM
Parents living in San Francisco have to put their children into a lottery. What is this lottery about? So for the sake of fairness children are randomly shuffled around the various schools within San Francisco so that some poor disadvantaged children go to the wealthier schools. While some children of wealthy go to the poorer schools. Also to mix up the various ethnicities.

I'm sure many wealthy parents pay the right people for "better odds."  These schemes always involve a lot of backroom deals.  It's like how rent control just means giving highly coveted apartments to relatives or friends of politicians.

As oggsmash says, wealthy parents just send their kids to private schools. I don't have experience with the SF school lottery, but I know that in my district, there are lotteries for admission to the popular local charter schools.

I'm sure there are plenty of criticisms of how SF implemented their lottery. They revised their system earlier this year in response to problems.

However, having a lottery of some sort is the obvious result of school choice. A lot of people try to get their kid into the same school, and the result is that there are more applicants than there are available openings at that school. It is a necessity that "school choice" can't result in parents getting the school they want, because many parents will want the same school.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on September 04, 2023, 11:23:34 PM
However, having a lottery of some sort is the obvious result of school choice. A lot of people try to get their kid into the same school, and the result is that there are more applicants than there are available openings at that school. It is a necessity that "school choice" can't result in parents getting the school they want, because many parents will want the same school.

These successful schools will have the funds to expand and grow and take more students, other schools will be forced to emulate them.

School choice will increase the quality of all schools as they will have to compete and improve. Our current system is broken.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on September 05, 2023, 12:21:50 PM
However, having a lottery of some sort is the obvious result of school choice. A lot of people try to get their kid into the same school, and the result is that there are more applicants than there are available openings at that school. It is a necessity that "school choice" can't result in parents getting the school they want, because many parents will want the same school.

These successful schools will have the funds to expand and grow and take more students, other schools will be forced to emulate them.

School choice will increase the quality of all schools as they will have to compete and improve. Our current system is broken.

School choice is pretty widespread by now among most states - including among traditional district schools as well as charter schools. In addition to choice among regular district schools, there are nearly 8000 charter schools now, which almost all run by choice. And they are improving.

From the CREDO study released earlier this year, charter schools have shown improvement over the past twenty years - going from below average to slightly above average (+0.4 percentile in math and +1.0 percentile in reading).

But schools can't simply arbitrarily grow and shrink - it takes years to buy new land and/or build new classrooms, and by the time that happens, the public preferences may have changed. There will always be a difference between what parents prefer and what current school capacity is.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on September 05, 2023, 02:47:13 PM
But schools can't simply arbitrarily grow and shrink - it takes years to buy new land and/or build new classrooms, and by the time that happens, the public preferences may have changed. There will always be a difference between what parents prefer and what current school capacity is.

This mindset in the US that a solution must be immediate, instead of building for the future, is a recipe for disaster. We must plant trees and build cathedrals that we will not see in our lifetime, but our grandchildren will benefit from.

We must fix the education system, and school choice is clearly the most successful model for the long term. Public education is a disaster.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Scooter on September 05, 2023, 04:36:29 PM
But schools can't simply arbitrarily grow and shrink - it takes years to buy new land and/or build new classrooms, and by the time that happens, the public preferences may have changed. There will always be a difference between what parents prefer and what current school capacity is.

This mindset in the US that a solution must be immediate, instead of building for the future, is a recipe for disaster. We must plant trees and build cathedrals that we will not see in our lifetime, but our grandchildren will benefit from.

We must fix the education system, and school choice is clearly the most successful model for the long term. Public education is a disaster.

Yes, gov't controlled schools must be eliminated immediately.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: RPGPundit on September 05, 2023, 06:25:16 PM
Parents living in San Francisco have to put their children into a lottery. What is this lottery about? So for the sake of fairness children are randomly shuffled around the various schools within San Francisco so that some poor disadvantaged children go to the wealthier schools. While some children of wealthy go to the poorer schools. Also to mix up the various ethnicities.

I'm sure many wealthy parents pay the right people for "better odds."  These schemes always involve a lot of backroom deals.  It's like how rent control just means giving highly coveted apartments to relatives or friends of politicians.

As oggsmash says, wealthy parents just send their kids to private schools. I don't have experience with the SF school lottery, but I know that in my district, there are lotteries for admission to the popular local charter schools.

I'm sure there are plenty of criticisms of how SF implemented their lottery. They revised their system earlier this year in response to problems.

However, having a lottery of some sort is the obvious result of school choice. A lot of people try to get their kid into the same school, and the result is that there are more applicants than there are available openings at that school. It is a necessity that "school choice" can't result in parents getting the school they want, because many parents will want the same school.

That's because California doesn't have TRUE school choice (as in, vouchers). You're still stuck sending your kids to a school controlled by the appalling californian government.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: RPGPundit on September 05, 2023, 06:26:31 PM
However, having a lottery of some sort is the obvious result of school choice. A lot of people try to get their kid into the same school, and the result is that there are more applicants than there are available openings at that school. It is a necessity that "school choice" can't result in parents getting the school they want, because many parents will want the same school.

These successful schools will have the funds to expand and grow and take more students, other schools will be forced to emulate them.

School choice will increase the quality of all schools as they will have to compete and improve. Our current system is broken.

School choice is pretty widespread by now among most states - including among traditional district schools as well as charter schools. In addition to choice among regular district schools, there are nearly 8000 charter schools now, which almost all run by choice. And they are improving.


That's not real choice. Real choice is where the Parent gets the money, and can then apply it anywhere he wants, including to homeschool, podschool, religious schooling or other forms of education that are not controlled by the government, communist unions, and degenerate groomers.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: RPGPundit on September 05, 2023, 06:27:51 PM
But schools can't simply arbitrarily grow and shrink - it takes years to buy new land and/or build new classrooms, and by the time that happens, the public preferences may have changed. There will always be a difference between what parents prefer and what current school capacity is.

This mindset in the US that a solution must be immediate, instead of building for the future, is a recipe for disaster. We must plant trees and build cathedrals that we will not see in our lifetime, but our grandchildren will benefit from.

We must fix the education system, and school choice is clearly the most successful model for the long term. Public education is a disaster.

Yes, gov't controlled schools must be eliminated immediately.

Agreed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 05, 2023, 06:37:17 PM
However, having a lottery of some sort is the obvious result of school choice. A lot of people try to get their kid into the same school, and the result is that there are more applicants than there are available openings at that school. It is a necessity that "school choice" can't result in parents getting the school they want, because many parents will want the same school.

These successful schools will have the funds to expand and grow and take more students, other schools will be forced to emulate them.

School choice will increase the quality of all schools as they will have to compete and improve. Our current system is broken.

School choice is pretty widespread by now among most states - including among traditional district schools as well as charter schools. In addition to choice among regular district schools, there are nearly 8000 charter schools now, which almost all run by choice. And they are improving.


That's not real choice. Real choice is where the Parent gets the money, and can then apply it anywhere he wants, including to homeschool, podschool, religious schooling or other forms of education that are not controlled by the government, communist unions, and degenerate groomers.

Besides (if Jhkim numbers are right) that's a whooping 160 charter schools per state (assuming an even distribution between the states). In 2021 there were a measly 67,408 public elementary schools in the USA.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dropbear on September 11, 2023, 09:01:24 AM
Ok, this has nothing to do with TBP, other than it is a window into the madness that is Woke thinking.

Parents living in San Francisco have to put their children into a lottery. What is this lottery about? So for the sake of fairness children are randomly shuffled around the various schools within San Francisco so that some poor disadvantaged children go to the wealthier schools. While some children of wealthy go to the poorer schools. Also to mix up the various ethnicities.

So, this madness leads to kids being bussed all around San Francisco. You could live in the Outer Sunset and your kid has to be on a bus for 2 hours to go to the inner city or Mission Bay (the worst part of SF). All the parents hope is for a good lottery pull. How they reconcile this with environmentalism, I don't know, understanding cognitive dissonance in the brains of the Woke is beyond me.

This is their definition of "fairness".

Crap I must have missed something. No more TBP madness and a subject matter change? Lol.

Probably not much to report anyways on that front anyway.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on September 11, 2023, 02:07:50 PM
RPGnet is a cesspit.

Also, water is wet and the sky is blue
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 12, 2023, 09:00:02 AM
Honestly, I've gotten tired of looking at TBP. Same shit, day after day; pompous declarations from staff, and posters getting banned for increasingly innocuous shit that wouldn't garner more than a raised eyebrow on a sane forum.

It's all so tiresome.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on September 12, 2023, 11:33:19 AM
Watching parts of Biden's disastrous speech in Vietnam, I was thinking of how many times he would've been banned at TPB.  He used the terms "Indians," "Third World," and repeatedly referenced John Wayne.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on September 12, 2023, 06:47:52 PM
These successful schools will have the funds to expand and grow and take more students, other schools will be forced to emulate them.

School choice will increase the quality of all schools as they will have to compete and improve. Our current system is broken.

School choice is pretty widespread by now among most states - including among traditional district schools as well as charter schools. In addition to choice among regular district schools, there are nearly 8000 charter schools now, which almost all run by choice. And they are improving.


That's not real choice. Real choice is where the Parent gets the money, and can then apply it anywhere he wants, including to homeschool, podschool, religious schooling or other forms of education that are not controlled by the government, communist unions, and degenerate groomers.

Besides (if Jhkim numbers are right) that's a whooping 160 charter schools per state (assuming an even distribution between the states). In 2021 there were a measly 67,408 public elementary schools in the USA.

It's still the best time for school choice in the history of our country. There are vastly more options now than in the 1970s when I started school. Back then, it was generally illegal to home-school your kids -- and almost no choice within the public school system.

Now we have growing movements of choice on several fronts. To Pundit's point, there are now 10 states that have offered voucher programs that can be applied towards private schools, and much more support for home-schooling in many states. Charter schools are continuing to expand.

Could it be better? Absolutely. But school choice of all kinds has been making steady progress.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 13, 2023, 07:42:49 AM
School choice is much better now than the 70's because public schools are MUCH worse now than they were then.  It was allow some choice or end up causing riots.  Politicians did what they always do...whatever was easiest/most convenient in the moment.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on September 13, 2023, 09:25:45 AM
Watching parts of Biden's disastrous speech in Vietnam, I was thinking of how many times he would've been banned at TPB.  He used the terms "Indians," "Third World," and repeatedly referenced John Wayne.

C’mon man! Them gooks are just as intelligent as clean people, that’s storybook man!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Scooter on September 13, 2023, 10:05:35 AM
School choice is much better now than the 70's because public schools are MUCH worse now than they were then.  It was allow some choice or end up causing riots.  Politicians did what they always do...whatever was easiest/most convenient in the moment.

Yes, in the 70's while in 7th grade I had German, Algebra, Chemistry, mechanical drawing & US Civics my 1st semester.  All pretty hard core 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 14, 2023, 09:52:06 AM
 For some strange reason something happened from the 70's to now that caused the expectations and level of education (level meaning how hard the subjects were) to drop drastically.   I wonder what has happened in the country to cause such a thing to happen? 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Scooter on September 14, 2023, 10:09:13 AM
For some strange reason something happened from the 70's to now that caused the expectations and level of education (level meaning how hard the subjects were) to drop drastically.   I wonder what has happened in the country to cause such a thing to happen?

The highly illegal US Dept of Education was formed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on September 14, 2023, 02:20:12 PM
For some strange reason something happened from the 70's to now that caused the expectations and level of education (level meaning how hard the subjects were) to drop drastically.   I wonder what has happened in the country to cause such a thing to happen?

The highly illegal US Dept of Education was formed.

The U.S. had had a federal office of education for over a century before it was formalized as a cabinet-level department in 1979. There has been a federal office of education since 1867, often known as the USOE (United States Office of Education). And all governments - Republican and Democrat - have used it to push for their preferences in education. Prior to 1979, President Johnson passed the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) and President Nixon established the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP).

The big question is what has the Dept of Education done -- and that has been to continue similar federal education policies both before and after its formation. In particular, it continued a focus on reading and math scores started as the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) that was created under Nixon, prior to the Dept of Education. This gives a report card to schools based on randomized testing of average reading and math scores.

This does two things:

1) It rates schools based on the average student test performance. This gives greater focus to the low tail that drags down averages, whereas gifted kids just get 100%, which is little different from 95%. This focus became even greater under George W. Bush with the "No Child Left Behind" program, that separates out different categories of struggling students.

2) It focuses education on reading and math, rather than a variety of subjects like music, mechanical drawing, etc.


Under these policies, schools have tended to drop their gifted and talented programs, as well as other non-core subjects, and put more effort into special education and remedial programs to ensure that every student gets to a minimum level of math and reading.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Scooter on September 14, 2023, 03:18:57 PM


The U.S. had had a federal office of education for over a century before it was formalized

Irrelevant babble.  Read and UNDERSTAND the constitution before getting back to me moron
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 14, 2023, 03:21:39 PM
For some strange reason something happened from the 70's to now that caused the expectations and level of education (level meaning how hard the subjects were) to drop drastically.   I wonder what has happened in the country to cause such a thing to happen?

The highly illegal US Dept of Education was formed.

The U.S. had had a federal office of education for over a century before it was formalized as a cabinet-level department in 1979. There has been a federal office of education since 1867, often known as the USOE (United States Office of Education). And all governments - Republican and Democrat - have used it to push for their preferences in education. Prior to 1979, President Johnson passed the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) and President Nixon established the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP).

The big question is what has the Dept of Education done -- and that has been to continue similar federal education policies both before and after its formation. In particular, it continued a focus on reading and math scores started as the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) that was created under Nixon, prior to the Dept of Education. This gives a report card to schools based on randomized testing of average reading and math scores.

This does two things:

1) It rates schools based on the average student test performance. This gives greater focus to the low tail that drags down averages, whereas gifted kids just get 100%, which is little different from 95%. This focus became even greater under George W. Bush with the "No Child Left Behind" program, that separates out different categories of struggling students.

2) It focuses education on reading and math, rather than a variety of subjects like music, mechanical drawing, etc.


Under these policies, schools have tended to drop their gifted and talented programs, as well as other non-core subjects, and put more effort into special education and remedial programs to ensure that every student gets to a minimum level of math and reading.

And still you get cities/counties/whatever where over 90% of students can't do math, read, etc.

But only on state funded schools, so maybe there's SOMETHING the Department of Education/the Unions are doing wrong?

Or, you're incorrect that they focused on teaching kids to read/do math and they instead focused on not failing them. Statistically those both look the same at first glance.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on September 14, 2023, 03:22:24 PM
For some strange reason something happened from the 70's to now that caused the expectations and level of education (level meaning how hard the subjects were) to drop drastically.   I wonder what has happened in the country to cause such a thing to happen?

The highly illegal US Dept of Education was formed.

The U.S. had had a federal office of education for over a century before it was formalized as a cabinet-level department in 1979. There has been a federal office of education since 1867, often known as the USOE (United States Office of Education). And all governments - Republican and Democrat - have used it to push for their preferences in education. Prior to 1979, President Johnson passed the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) and President Nixon established the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP).

The big question is what has the Dept of Education done -- and that has been to continue similar federal education policies both before and after its formation. In particular, it continued a focus on reading and math scores started as the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) that was created under Nixon, prior to the Dept of Education. This gives a report card to schools based on randomized testing of average reading and math scores.

This does two things:

1) It rates schools based on the average student test performance. This gives greater focus to the low tail that drags down averages, whereas gifted kids just get 100%, which is little different from 95%. This focus became even greater under George W. Bush with the "No Child Left Behind" program, that separates out different categories of struggling students.

2) It focuses education on reading and math, rather than a variety of subjects like music, mechanical drawing, etc.


Under these policies, schools have tended to drop their gifted and talented programs, as well as other non-core subjects, and put more effort into special education and remedial programs to ensure that every student gets to a minimum level of math and reading.
To your last point, they may be spending the money, but the scores have not improved. Many college bound seniors hoping to to major in STEM cannot add simple fractions in their heads. 1/2 + 1/3 = x is beyond their means.

https://apnews.com/article/college-math-test-help-6cca6a5e873d5aeb5e75b4f94125d48c?taid=64f1cec3062cd50001fae554

The headline blames the pandemic, but solving a basic addition of fractions should have been mastered by the time they left elementary school, many years before the pandemic. They were taught to press buttons on a calculator, not how to actually do math.

Take that money back from the public schools, and do something useful with it, because that money sure as hell isn’t teaching the kids to acquire basic skills. It’s just a slush fund for jobs for members of the teacher’s union.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on September 14, 2023, 04:01:06 PM
Under these policies, schools have tended to drop their gifted and talented programs, as well as other non-core subjects, and put more effort into special education and remedial programs to ensure that every student gets to a minimum level of math and reading.

To your last point, they may be spending the money, but the scores have not improved. Many college bound seniors hoping to to major in STEM cannot add simple fractions in their heads. 1/2 + 1/3 = x is beyond their means.

https://apnews.com/article/college-math-test-help-6cca6a5e873d5aeb5e75b4f94125d48c?taid=64f1cec3062cd50001fae554

The headline blames the pandemic, but solving a basic addition of fractions should have been mastered by the time they left elementary school, many years before the pandemic. They were taught to press buttons on a calculator, not how to actually do math.

Take that money back from the public schools, and do something useful with it, because that money sure as hell isn’t teaching the kids to acquire basic skills. It’s just a slush fund for jobs for members of the teacher’s union.

Regarding adding fractions in elementary school -- Any skills need to be exercised and reinforced in subsequent years, or students forget them. Hell, they are likely to forget their fractions by the end of the summer after learning them. This has been quantitatively verified by randomized testing.

This goes back to what to do about education. Simply giving up isn't an option. If you pull the money out and make no changes to the system, students will get worse. You might not like how things are now, but giving up on public education will create even worse results and even more of an ignorant voting populace.

I realize that conservatives are dismayed at the liberal leaning of current teachers. I think the answer for anyone is that we need to create better teachers. For conservatives, that means that conservative states should open new teacher programs that recruit and train top-notch conservative teachers. (For others, the same applies with different criteria for what makes a teacher better.) Things will take many years to change, but it's necessary for long-term improvement.

There are other strategic improvements like school choice and charter schools, but a fundamental is the teachers themselves.

---

My stepson is taking Algebra II as a junior now, and I've been helping him with fractions. I'm disappointed with how things have gone, but for what it's worth - he went to private Catholic school for elementary and middle school -- so I can't blame it on public schooling.

There's another thing to keep in mind when considering changes since the 1970s. From 1970 to 2010, an increasing percentage of high school students have been going to college. And an increasing percentage of students have been completing high school. So a lot of students who would have dropped out and/or not gone to college are instead completing, which drags down the statistics and perception.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 14, 2023, 07:06:07 PM
Under these policies, schools have tended to drop their gifted and talented programs, as well as other non-core subjects, and put more effort into special education and remedial programs to ensure that every student gets to a minimum level of math and reading.

To your last point, they may be spending the money, but the scores have not improved. Many college bound seniors hoping to to major in STEM cannot add simple fractions in their heads. 1/2 + 1/3 = x is beyond their means.

https://apnews.com/article/college-math-test-help-6cca6a5e873d5aeb5e75b4f94125d48c?taid=64f1cec3062cd50001fae554

The headline blames the pandemic, but solving a basic addition of fractions should have been mastered by the time they left elementary school, many years before the pandemic. They were taught to press buttons on a calculator, not how to actually do math.

Take that money back from the public schools, and do something useful with it, because that money sure as hell isn’t teaching the kids to acquire basic skills. It’s just a slush fund for jobs for members of the teacher’s union.

Regarding adding fractions in elementary school -- Any skills need to be exercised and reinforced in subsequent years, or students forget them. Hell, they are likely to forget their fractions by the end of the summer after learning them. This has been quantitatively verified by randomized testing.

This goes back to what to do about education. Simply giving up isn't an option. If you pull the money out and make no changes to the system, students will get worse. You might not like how things are now, but giving up on public education will create even worse results and even more of an ignorant voting populace.

I realize that conservatives are dismayed at the liberal leaning of current teachers. I think the answer for anyone is that we need to create better teachers. For conservatives, that means that conservative states should open new teacher programs that recruit and train top-notch conservative teachers. (For others, the same applies with different criteria for what makes a teacher better.) Things will take many years to change, but it's necessary for long-term improvement.

There are other strategic improvements like school choice and charter schools, but a fundamental is the teachers themselves.

---

My stepson is taking Algebra II as a junior now, and I've been helping him with fractions. I'm disappointed with how things have gone, but for what it's worth - he went to private Catholic school for elementary and middle school -- so I can't blame it on public schooling.

There's another thing to keep in mind when considering changes since the 1970s. From 1970 to 2010, an increasing percentage of high school students have been going to college. And an increasing percentage of students have been completing high school. So a lot of students who would have dropped out and/or not gone to college are instead completing, which drags down the statistics and perception.

So I'm right: They didn't tried to give better education but to just pass the students so they didn't look bad/racist on paper...

You can have (in paper) the exact same requirements, but by your actions lower the standards by passing students that would have failed/drop out. Which is the exact same thing as lowering the standards but less obvious.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on September 15, 2023, 10:17:17 PM
My stepson is taking Algebra II as a junior now, and I've been helping him with fractions. I'm disappointed with how things have gone, but for what it's worth - he went to private Catholic school for elementary and middle school -- so I can't blame it on public schooling.

Your stepson's a high school junior, like 11th grade?  And only in Algebra 2 and needing help with fractions?  I don't want to sound like I'm dunking on a child here, I'm honestly asking, is he representative of the median?  That seems behind the curve from my own memories of that grade; the average non-advanced math class was in pre-calc in that year.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on September 15, 2023, 11:42:34 PM
I think schools are actually better now at teaching students who would not have previously had enough interest or the educational resources they would have needed to graduate. But that also probably means that proportionally more resources go to that as opposed to encouraging excellence and opportunity for our best students, and perhaps more notably setting a good pace and ensuring solid capability for the middle. Not saying that first sentence is a bad thing, it only drives scores down in the sense that previously those folks weren't even learning enough to continue being tested/educated. But assuming the money input pie stays the same, less is still left for average and above average students, so that too drives scores down.

Unless you increase funding, which may not even help much given how that money may well be allocated by not only unions but school districts and administrations. That and a solid amount of school funding in a lot of places comes from local property taxes anyway, so regardless if you're better off you get more dough for your (probably better/adequate) school, and if you aren't you probably can't handle more taxes proportionally being thrown at you to make it better, much less paying for a private school or whatever. That said, though, at least with non-public schools you can select as a consumer the ones that seem to allocate efficiently with respect to price vs output. And with the culture wars and everything else, I think there is a definite demand these days more generally for school choice and the ability to select matching values. So all told, I'm generally for school choice as a partial solution.

 Though I don't think it's the only thing that needs to change or necessarily the best fit for everyone financially or otherwise. At least not without solid investment in school choice vouchers, education-tax-impact-linked tax breaks and the like. Which would probably need to be moreso at the state level to avoid the funding-everything-out-of-the-local-property-tax/area income bracket problem. Though even then, so long as public schools have to rely on local funding from mostly property taxes, the quality of your school will be pretty strongly associated with how well-off where you live is. (And how well off you yourself are, with respect to how much your actual disposable income (spendable on stuff like private schools) after necessities is impacted by said local tax.) To clarify, I think better off folks should still be able to send kids to better schools. I'm just pointing out that the way things are currently set up, the ones least able to afford school choice more generally are also the ones stuck at some of the worst schools, probably. Also potentially some of the most woke schools. To make school choice viable, local property tax effects would probably need to be counterbalanced by solid support at the state level for school choice in principle. Or something. Not really sure where I was going with this.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on September 16, 2023, 12:01:21 AM
Unrelatedly, speaking of funding...

Is it really true that TBP brings in 5-10 million dollars a year?

I was looking here: https://www.similarweb.com/website/rpg.net/#overview

That stuck out to me as weird.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on September 16, 2023, 12:07:02 AM
My stepson is taking Algebra II as a junior now, and I've been helping him with fractions. I'm disappointed with how things have gone, but for what it's worth - he went to private Catholic school for elementary and middle school -- so I can't blame it on public schooling.

Your stepson's a high school junior, like 11th grade?  And only in Algebra 2 and needing help with fractions?  I don't want to sound like I'm dunking on a child here, I'm honestly asking, is he representative of the median?  That seems behind the curve from my own memories of that grade; the average non-advanced math class was in pre-calc in that year.

As far as I know, that is the median. Typical is Algebra I for freshman, Geometry for sophomores, Algebra II for juniors. Most students never get to Calculus in high school. As far as I know, that's always been true. Here's data for the trend of taking high school calculus:

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5aa6128850a54f0331abec9a/1581022403592-Q3HL66X3NEZB8PBBILCH/20-03+fig1.png?format=2500w)
Source: https://www.mathvalues.org/masterblog/launchings202003

More recent data as a percentage:

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5aa6128850a54f0331abec9a/f878411f-badb-49df-8c54-de886dcb945d/Graph.png?format=2500w)
Source: https://www.mathvalues.org/masterblog/the-decline-in-high-school-calculus

So I think it's pretty normal. (My older son took Algebra II as a freshman, but he was ahead of the curve.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on September 16, 2023, 03:36:43 AM
Unrelatedly, speaking of funding...

Is it really true that TBP brings in 5-10 million dollars a year?

I was looking here: https://www.similarweb.com/website/rpg.net/#overview

That stuck out to me as weird.

Actually, this seems very related. I guess being American Maoists pays well if you've got the right audience.

That is pretty insane though for such a shitty website about TTRPG's.

Man, I just watched a talk with Dr. James Lindsay about the American Maoism that is taking over our society. We're doomed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 16, 2023, 05:52:25 AM
Unrelatedly, speaking of funding...

Is it really true that TBP brings in 5-10 million dollars a year?

I was looking here: https://www.similarweb.com/website/rpg.net/#overview

That stuck out to me as weird.

Actually, this seems very related. I guess being American Maoists pays well if you've got the right audience.

That is pretty insane though for such a shitty website about TTRPG's.

Man, I just watched a talk with Dr. James Lindsay about the American Maoism that is taking over our society. We're doomed.

I watched the same video. The social engineering is damn frightening, but I don't think we're doomed. It's just going to be a long slog.
Thank God for people like Lindsay, who's austistic enough to do all this research, and coherent enough to explain it to the layman.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on September 16, 2023, 07:29:31 PM
So I think it's pretty normal. (My older son took Algebra II as a freshman, but he was ahead of the curve.)

I shall take your word for it, as it's been nearly thirty years since I was in high school; your experiences with your kids is definitely more current.  I was too lazy a student to tryhard into the AP courses, but I was coasting just fine with the curve and definitely was in pre-calc in public high school back in the 90s.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on September 16, 2023, 08:31:29 PM
So I think it's pretty normal. (My older son took Algebra II as a freshman, but he was ahead of the curve.)

I shall take your word for it, as it's been nearly thirty years since I was in high school; your experiences with your kids is definitely more current.  I was too lazy a student to tryhard into the AP courses, but I was coasting just fine with the curve and definitely was in pre-calc in public high school back in the 90s.

You may just have been at a solid locality for schooling. I did Calc in the 2010s, or however you name that decade, in high school, but it was towards the very end of high school and that was basically the case more generally for that school and part of why it was considered better. They even partnered with a local college to offer cheap and/or free classes, depending, to those whose progression and capacity justified it. Bad schools exist, but some I feel are genuinely ahead of the curve. Part of why actively supporting the resources necessary for meaningful school choice matters, in that there’s a pretty big gap arguably between the worst and the best, or even average. And the ones most likely to be at the worst are also typically the least able to go elsewhere currently, from what I’d guess.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on September 16, 2023, 10:00:08 PM
So I think it's pretty normal. (My older son took Algebra II as a freshman, but he was ahead of the curve.)

I shall take your word for it, as it's been nearly thirty years since I was in high school; your experiences with your kids is definitely more current.  I was too lazy a student to tryhard into the AP courses, but I was coasting just fine with the curve and definitely was in pre-calc in public high school back in the 90s.

It's hard to generalize from individual experience, especially since U.S. schools have traditionally been locally funded and controlled. Out of curiosity, what was the neighborhood like for your public high school?

I went to high school in 1987-1991, but mine was a private prep school in New York. My older sisters went to public high school 5 and 7 years earlier, though.

From the data, high school calculus was very rare back in the 1970s, and became more common up until 2013, when rates of taking it started to decrease. I suspect some of the decrease might be in preferring alternate subjects like Computer Science or Statistics, even if a student is capable of calculus. (My son opted for advanced statistics rather than calculus his senior year, which contributes to my thinking that.)

In general, I think there's no magic bullet with school policy. There are a lot of little marginal choices and trade-offs. School choice is good, but it's not a quick or complete fix to all ills.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on September 16, 2023, 11:44:13 PM
It's hard to generalize from individual experience, especially since U.S. schools have traditionally been locally funded and controlled. Out of curiosity, what was the neighborhood like for your public high school?

My high school was in a middle-classy neighborhood in the burbs; we definitely weren't the rich kids' school, but were much better off than most of the city schools, which get much more money per student than the county schools but still manage to be like bombed-out hellholes.  A friend of mine attended some charity event at one of the city schools and said the bathroom walls were full of holes and there was a sink literally ripped out of the wall.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on September 18, 2023, 06:03:52 AM
  Public schools have two very big, very serious limitations.  One is the raw materials...people expect a school to do the same work with an 85 iq person that they can do with a 101 iq student.  They also expect all the other things that are typical of people who are for lack of a subtle word, stupid, to behave as if they have good impulse control, make good decisions, etc.  The other big limitation is parental involvement and support.   A lot of these dipshits who in years past would have quit or failed a few grades (now they just get passed along till they are out of school...still functioning on a 3rd-4th grade level) have parents who are just as big a dipshit as they are.  These people offer zero support to the efforts of teachers and staff in the form of support/discipline/academic rigor. 

   People do not send their kids to private school just for "better" educations in the sense of course offered or resources available.  They do so to insulate their kids from booger eating knuckle draggers that are going to absolutely nothing for their kids except offer a source of distraction (at best) or danger (at worst).  Rules are for some and not for all and it shows in public school. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on September 21, 2023, 05:47:34 PM
  Public schools have two very big, very serious limitations.  One is the raw materials...people expect a school to do the same work with an 85 iq person that they can do with a 101 iq student.  They also expect all the other things that are typical of people who are for lack of a subtle word, stupid, to behave as if they have good impulse control, make good decisions, etc.  The other big limitation is parental involvement and support. 

This is actually a decent series of points I wasn't fully considering at the front of my mind. School choice will help for some, but it may perhaps be too much to hope that it will fix everything for all. I'm not looking for equal outcomes, though, and I think excellence and better outcomes can still be achieved at least in part through choice and competition. Hopefully.  :D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on September 21, 2023, 05:48:58 PM
Also, unrelatedly, do we have any genuine confirmation that rpg.net draws in 5-10 million annually? That's been bugging me, and I kinda just want to know if this is an accepted fact.   :(
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Jason Coplen on September 21, 2023, 07:49:31 PM
Also, unrelatedly, do we have any genuine confirmation that rpg.net draws in 5-10 million annually? That's been bugging me, and I kinda just want to know if this is an accepted fact.   :(

That's a very bad guess. I highly doubt they bring in a million.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on September 22, 2023, 01:01:08 AM
If TBP was bringing in that kind of money I’d expect the moderators would expect some form of compensation. At least the ones doing most of the banning.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Kyle Aaron on September 22, 2023, 05:11:51 AM
People do not send their kids to private school just for "better" educations in the sense of course offered or resources available.  They do so to insulate their kids from booger eating knuckle draggers
In Australia we've got a website myschool.edu.au, where you can look up various schools. They list the budget, number of students, teaching and non-teaching staff, everything. They also list the school's SEA quartiles - socioeconomic advantage. How well-off and well-educated are the kid's parents? And then there's the academic results in the form of a standardised test called NAPLAN. People argue over how useful that is, but it is what it is.

Anyway, what determines the results? It's not the money spent per student - poorly-performing schools actually get more money per student, the government's trying to help them. Certainly not the capital spending, the buildings and halls and sports ovals, there's zero correlation there. Student:teacher ratio? Well, the poorly-performing schools, the extra money they get tends to go into hiring more staff. They still perform badly - possibly it'd be worse without those extra staff, but we don't really know.

It's the SEA quartiles. A school where 50+% of children are from the top quartile does well. One where 50+% are from the bottom quartile does badly.

Statistically, 60% of the variance in academic results in Australia is explained by asking, "where do you live?" This rises to 80% if you add the question, "are you indigenous?" The other 20% is all the shit everyone argues about, and uses to pretend the other 80% doesn't exist - class sizes, whole word vs phonics, whatever. Probably that other 20% is just random shit, like does the kid fall in with a good crowd of kids for a couple of years, or a bad one, do they have a particularly good teacher they get along with for a few years instead of changing every year, did they lose one grandparent a year from grades 1-4 and get a bit distracted, did mum and dad split up, do they have an uncle who really loves maths and help them with it, and so on.

Private schools don't do any better than demographically-matched state schools. Private schools you're guaranteed to have 50+% of kids in the top socioeconomic quartile - the bottom quartile can't afford it. But if you can find a state school in a nice area with well-off and well-educated parents you'll get the same end result.

School fees are how ambitious parents keep the poors out.
I think schools are actually better now at teaching students who would not have previously had enough interest or the educational resources they would have needed to graduate. But that also probably means that proportionally more resources go to that as opposed to encouraging excellence and opportunity for our best students
Well, there's also credential inflation.

Famously, while most MPs have law degrees or similar, one of our Prime Ministers, one Paul Keating, left school at 14 (early 1960s) and went to work as a pay clerk for some natural gas supplier. A relatively smart 14yo could be a pay clerk, then - now they want a degree in accounting. From 10 years in schooling to do the job to 16-17 years, and at considerable expense, too... are our outcomes much better? I don't think so.

Mostly it's just pointless fuckery.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abbo1993 on September 22, 2023, 02:12:54 PM
Rpgs don't bring that kind of money unless they are dnd, the fucktards have a tech and media company behind them that cover their asses most of the time but I seriously doubt they have that kind of dough.
I remember when they banned Macris from the site and mentioned not being able to afford a lawsuit, this isn't the kind of stuff you worry about if you make that kind of money.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on September 22, 2023, 05:00:46 PM
Anyway, what determines the results? It's not the money spent per student - poorly-performing schools actually get more money per student, the government's trying to help them. Certainly not the capital spending, the buildings and halls and sports ovals, there's zero correlation there. Student:teacher ratio? Well, the poorly-performing schools, the extra money they get tends to go into hiring more staff. They still perform badly - possibly it'd be worse without those extra staff, but we don't really know.

It's the SEA quartiles. A school where 50+% of children are from the top quartile does well. One where 50+% are from the bottom quartile does badly.

Statistically, 60% of the variance in academic results in Australia is explained by asking, "where do you live?" This rises to 80% if you add the question, "are you indigenous?" The other 20% is all the shit everyone argues about, and uses to pretend the other 80% doesn't exist - class sizes, whole word vs phonics, whatever. Probably that other 20% is just random shit, like does the kid fall in with a good crowd of kids for a couple of years, or a bad one, do they have a particularly good teacher they get along with for a few years instead of changing every year, did they lose one grandparent a year from grades 1-4 and get a bit distracted, did mum and dad split up, do they have an uncle who really loves maths and help them with it, and so on.

I agree statistically - but if the question is about how to run your schools, then that 20% is the only thing that matters. Schools aren't going to make students richer or make students non-indigenous. So they should be doing what they can to teach kids better.

As for random factors like losing a grandparent -- those average out over thousands of students. Within a poor district, some schools really do teach better than others, and there are techniques and teachers who are responsible for that.

Private schools don't do any better than demographically-matched state schools. Private schools you're guaranteed to have 50+% of kids in the top socioeconomic quartile - the bottom quartile can't afford it. But if you can find a state school in a nice area with well-off and well-educated parents you'll get the same end result.

Agreed, generally. The problem is, most people don't look past the flat average test scores -- when the thing that really matters is test scores *relative* to SEA rank.

They see that private schools have higher test scores, and assume that if any student goes to a private school, then they'll get better scores. But if you arrange to have a lot of poor students to a private school, then the scores will go down. It's not because the school got worse at teaching. It's because they're trying to teach a different population of students.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Scooter on September 22, 2023, 08:06:01 PM
Unrelatedly, speaking of funding...

Is it really true that TBP brings in 5-10 million dollars a year?


No. Similar web looks at a traffic numbers and guesstimates revenue as if it were a retailer selling stuff.  Which of course TBP isn't doing.  So the 5 - 10 million is not what is happening over there.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 23, 2023, 02:27:09 AM
But muh anecdotal "evidence"!



Truth is your educational system is even worst than the Mexican right now.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Scooter on September 23, 2023, 08:43:34 AM


Truth is your educational system is even worst than the Mexican right now.

I know as we tested it in the early 2000's at my company. 90% of college grads could not pass most of the finals exams given when I was in 8th grade 3 decades prior.  And 99% of HS grads couldn't pass them.  By 2010 reading comp level of HS grads tested was below 4th grade level.  This was in CA.  Doing simple arithmetic in their heads (like making change) was impossible.  Nor could most do it by hand.  Only by using a calculator could they perform math at a 4th grade level.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on October 14, 2023, 08:31:54 AM
Now they're agonizing over the word "minstrel."  They don't much care for "bard" or "skald" either:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/is-minstrel-really-the-best-name-for-your-fantasy-bard-class.914245/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Scooter on October 14, 2023, 09:05:28 AM
Now they're agonizing over the word "minstrel."  They don't much care for "bard" or "skald" either:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/is-minstrel-really-the-best-name-for-your-fantasy-bard-class.914245/

How 'bout Troubadour?

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 14, 2023, 09:47:12 AM
Now they're agonizing over the word "minstrel."  They don't much care for "bard" or "skald" either:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/is-minstrel-really-the-best-name-for-your-fantasy-bard-class.914245/
They’re going to panic themselves out of being able to use almost every word in the English language. That might be a good thing if it forces them to be unable to spout such nonsense.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abraxus on October 14, 2023, 11:16:06 AM
Holy Shit they do really live in the narrative filled,  Perpetual victimhood seeing evil in everything and anything microcosm.

They either don’t play any rpgs or just with the equivalent of sensitivity readers. As imo 99% of these people would be turned away from most tables.

Them:  “ I will only join your game if you remove Ministrel, Barfs and Skalds because it might offend someone out in the world. If not I’m offended for them.”

Me and most other rational normal people: Sorry they stay

Them: Don’t you realize some random person who you don’t know in the world may be offended.

Me and others: ( looks at them as if insane  ) again no they stay.

Them: what how are you not list..


Me and others ; If in a good mood. Sorry you’re going to find another table. If not get the fuck out and find another game.

What scary and pathetic is that many disagree yet to not be accused of not virtual signalling enough have to pretend to agree.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: The Spaniard on October 14, 2023, 12:56:41 PM
 Yea, another example of someone looking for a non-existent victim.  In my nearly 60 years on this planet, I've never heard of "minstrel shows" or ever heard anyone mention them either growing up in Chicago or living in the South for the past 20 years.  Some clown on there claimed that nearly everyone in America knew of these things, which is obviously false and easy to disprove.  Fuckos...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on October 14, 2023, 02:41:13 PM
Yea, another example of someone looking for a non-existent victim.  In my nearly 60 years on this planet, I've never heard of "minstrel shows" or ever heard anyone mention them either growing up in Chicago or living in the South for the past 20 years.  Some clown on there claimed that nearly everyone in America knew of these things, which is obviously false and easy to disprove.  Fuckos...

The whole victimhood industry is dependent on things like this. The author of White Fragility has said that, while discussing racism, she sends any white woman out of the room if she starts to cry. The reason is because white women's tears have been used to lynch black people in the past, something I bet no black person has thought about in ages. But NOW they do think about it and the paranoia spreads. Same with "trees remind black people of lynching" etc.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on October 15, 2023, 11:51:34 AM
I'll bet there are some serious "backstage" discussions going on there on which flag (Israeli vs. "Palestinian") to display and support.  They'll probably just end up posting sexually-deviant versions of each (you know, pink Star of David and two pink stripes, that sort of thing) and call it a win-win.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 15, 2023, 02:07:49 PM
I'll bet there are some serious "backstage" discussions going on there on which flag (Israeli vs. "Palestinian") to display and support.  They'll probably just end up posting sexually-deviant versions of each (you know, pink Star of David and two pink stripes, that sort of thing) and call it a win-win.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on October 17, 2023, 01:58:50 PM
If I was a world class hacker I'd hack backstage and put the whole archive on-line for open reading.  I probably wouldn't read it, maybe search for my name or something.  I expect the gold would rise to the top as others went through it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 17, 2023, 03:46:04 PM
If I was a world class hacker I'd hack backstage and put the whole archive on-line for open reading.  I probably wouldn't read it, maybe search for my name or something.  I expect the gold would rise to the top as others went through it.
A week or so ago one of the admins started a thread in Tangency asking for people to share their contact information just in case TBP shuts down. It seemed like a strange request, and the admin said the request was driven by nothing specific, but that doesn’t preclude a general concern that TBP may go down in the near future. If the request was totally without merit I’d have thought another admin would have had the post withdrawn so as to not risk unnecessary anxiety to their Woke members.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 17, 2023, 03:54:24 PM
If I was a world class hacker I'd hack backstage and put the whole archive on-line for open reading.  I probably wouldn't read it, maybe search for my name or something.  I expect the gold would rise to the top as others went through it.
A week or so ago one of the admins started a thread in Tangency asking for people to share their contact information just in case TBP shuts down. It seemed like a strange request, and the admin said the request was driven by nothing specific, but that doesn’t preclude a general concern that TBP may go down in the near future. If the request was totally without merit I’d have thought another admin would have had the post withdrawn so as to not risk unnecessary anxiety to their Woke members.
Huh? Can they not contact people via the emails they used to register? The hell do they need 'contact information' for?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on October 17, 2023, 04:16:58 PM
If I was a world class hacker I'd hack backstage and put the whole archive on-line for open reading.  I probably wouldn't read it, maybe search for my name or something.  I expect the gold would rise to the top as others went through it.
A week or so ago one of the admins started a thread in Tangency asking for people to share their contact information just in case TBP shuts down. It seemed like a strange request, and the admin said the request was driven by nothing specific, but that doesn’t preclude a general concern that TBP may go down in the near future. If the request was totally without merit I’d have thought another admin would have had the post withdrawn so as to not risk unnecessary anxiety to their Woke members.
Huh? Can they not contact people via the emails they used to register? The hell do they need 'contact information' for?
in order to doxx and harass any posters who run afoul of The Message.  It's easier to destroy someone when they volunteer for it...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Scooter on October 17, 2023, 04:27:03 PM
If I was a world class hacker I'd hack backstage and put the whole archive on-line for open reading.  I probably wouldn't read it, maybe search for my name or something.  I expect the gold would rise to the top as others went through it.
A week or so ago one of the admins started a thread in Tangency asking for people to share their contact information just in case TBP shuts down. It seemed like a strange request, and the admin said the request was driven by nothing specific, but that doesn’t preclude a general concern that TBP may go down in the near future. If the request was totally without merit I’d have thought another admin would have had the post withdrawn so as to not risk unnecessary anxiety to their Woke members.
Huh? Can they not contact people via the emails they used to register? The hell do they need 'contact information' for?

Right!  Good point.  WTF?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 17, 2023, 04:30:27 PM
If I was a world class hacker I'd hack backstage and put the whole archive on-line for open reading.  I probably wouldn't read it, maybe search for my name or something.  I expect the gold would rise to the top as others went through it.
A week or so ago one of the admins started a thread in Tangency asking for people to share their contact information just in case TBP shuts down. It seemed like a strange request, and the admin said the request was driven by nothing specific, but that doesn’t preclude a general concern that TBP may go down in the near future. If the request was totally without merit I’d have thought another admin would have had the post withdrawn so as to not risk unnecessary anxiety to their Woke members.
Huh? Can they not contact people via the emails they used to register? The hell do they need 'contact information' for?
in order to doxx and harass any posters who run afoul of The Message.  It's easier to destroy someone when they volunteer for it...
I had not thought of that possibility. Sigh.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: RPGPundit on October 18, 2023, 08:17:53 AM
Troubadour is probably the most accurate term for what D&D bards actually look like and do.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on October 18, 2023, 12:38:53 PM
The accuracy/etymology argument is one of the few that makes sense IMO. "Why are we using this terms from specific cultures in such wildly unrelated contexts? Isn't that just pointlessly confusing?"

Then there's the translation argument. "How do we translate all these terms into other languages without being confusing?"

Then there's the provincial argument. "What words do we use when the game is e.g. Scandinavian fantasy written by Scandinavians in their native language?"

Maybe we shouldn't keep trying to reduce complex concepts like professions and religious roles down to single words?

I prefer to use succinct phrases: e.g. ecoterrorist magic-user instead of druid, sexy female magic-user instead of witch, elderly male magic-user instead of wizard, demon-worshiping magic-user instead of warlock, religious healer magic-user instead of cleric, etc. But YMMV.

But I feel this is trying to treat symptoms, not the deeper problem of D&D fantasy being self-iterative to the point of becoming nonsensical. Although you can quibble on the accuracy of real religious, there was a limit on how convoluted they could become. No real religion or mythology makes so many distinctions between magic-users as D&D fantasy does. Indeed, Roman syncretism outright stated there is just one pantheon that all religions see differently.

Even fantasy novels, with their absurd obsessions with inventing magic systems that aren't based on any real belief, don't make so many distinctions. It's only fiction inspired directly by D&D that does so: e.g. Warcraft's absurd nonsense cosmology and caster distinctions.

But I digress
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on October 18, 2023, 12:57:09 PM
But I feel this is trying to treat symptoms, not the deeper problem of D&D fantasy being self-iterative to the point of becoming nonsensical. Although you can quibble on the accuracy of real religious, there was a limit on how convoluted they could become. No real religion or mythology makes so many distinctions between magic-users as D&D fantasy does. Indeed, Roman syncretism outright stated there is just one pantheon that all religions see differently.

     You can either use D&D as a toolkit from which you choose elements to reflect a specific fantasy feel, or you can go lighthearted gonzo and throw the whole mess in. WotC has been trying to chart a middle path of "include everything in D&D, but be 'realistic' about its implications" that has turned into an ouroboros ...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 19, 2023, 08:29:40 AM
But I feel this is trying to treat symptoms, not the deeper problem of D&D fantasy being self-iterative to the point of becoming nonsensical. Although you can quibble on the accuracy of real religious, there was a limit on how convoluted they could become. No real religion or mythology makes so many distinctions between magic-users as D&D fantasy does. Indeed, Roman syncretism outright stated there is just one pantheon that all religions see differently.

     You can either use D&D as a toolkit from which you choose elements to reflect a specific fantasy feel, or you can go lighthearted gonzo and throw the whole mess in. WotC has been trying to chart a middle path of "include everything in D&D, but be 'realistic' about its implications" that has turned into an ouroboros ...
Good summation, IMO. And both options work. Sometimes you want to run something with a specific theme, and sometimes you just wanna go the fantasy equivalent of Pink Mohawk Cyberpunk/Shadowrun.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on October 19, 2023, 10:55:06 PM
I prefer to use succinct phrases: e.g. ecoterrorist magic-user instead of druid...

Uh...really?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on October 20, 2023, 10:50:59 PM
Quote
Moderator Text:
You sent a belligerent message haranguing the moderating team after receiving a one-day ban for complaining to the moderators in a "cute" fashion that your 128-character-long password made of nonstandard dingbats was rejected for being too long, including a rant about how "lazy" the system was and a repeated misgendering reference to the moderator you were addressing as "Sir". Along with the all-caps multiple-exclamation-point cussing indignation, you doubled down that "Sir" has no gender, referred to women as "females" (using the word as a noun, which is frowned on here), and suggested we have everyone identify their gender in their member details on their posts to save you the trouble of not presuming default maleness.

We've decided you aren't a good fit for the forums and are issuing a permanent ban. Appeals should be directed to the admins at admin.rpgnet@gmail.com.

Oh no! Someone used that terrible noun "females" about certain people (who knows what kind of people, could be anyone).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on October 21, 2023, 01:04:06 AM
Feminists and gender specials have decided they have a bee in their bonnet about "female", because apparently the word sounds disrespectful to them, specifically because of Star Trek ferengi of all things. These same people will have zero issue with "male", and I've seen no proposal of a replacement word for females when someone wishes to use a phrase like "males and females".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on October 21, 2023, 08:53:55 AM
Feminists and gender specials have decided they have a bee in their bonnet about "female", because apparently the word sounds disrespectful to them, specifically because of Star Trek ferengi of all things. These same people will have zero issue with "male", and I've seen no proposal of a replacement word for females when someone wishes to use a phrase like "males and females".

Wut?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on October 23, 2023, 04:09:13 PM
Not joking. They've said that any man saying "female" is basically the same as how a ferengi would snarl out "feeee-male" on the show.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on October 23, 2023, 04:55:30 PM
Not joking. They've said that any man saying "female" is basically the same as how a ferengi would snarl out "feeee-male" on the show.

Does anyone actually care what mentally ill people think at this point?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on October 23, 2023, 05:54:00 PM
Not joking. They've said that any man saying "female" is basically the same as how a ferengi would snarl out "feeee-male" on the show.

Does anyone actually care what mentally ill people think at this point?
I don’t know that it’s really about how the ferengi say female. I think that if you’re trans-supporting the word has become a problem for some. One line of argument has been that gender and sex are different, as in completely different. It doesn’t matter any hypocrisy this view may have had, such as demanding birth certificates update the description from male to female, which shouldn’t matter if the categories of gender and sex are that different. The recent emphasis on the counter argument that a woman being an adult human female, contrasted to ‘transwomen are women’ may be creating a desire for the words such as female or male to be avoided by the Woke. If the categories for gender and sex are truly and completely different, a Woke tactic may be to push for the abandonment of the terms more associated with biological sex than gender. I don’t make the rules for the Woke, I just try to understand what angles and tactics they adopt.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 23, 2023, 06:25:26 PM
Not joking. They've said that any man saying "female" is basically the same as how a ferengi would snarl out "feeee-male" on the show.

Does anyone actually care what mentally ill people think at this point?
I don’t know that it’s really about how the ferengi say female. I think that if you’re trans-supporting the word has become a problem for some. One line of argument has been that gender and sex are different, as in completely different. It doesn’t matter any hypocrisy this view may have had, such as demanding birth certificates update the description from male to female, which shouldn’t matter if the categories of gender and sex are that different. The recent emphasis on the counter argument that a woman being an adult human female, contrasted to ‘transwomen are women’ may be creating a desire for the words such as female or male to be avoided by the Woke. If the categories for gender and sex are truly and completely different, a Woke tactic may be to push for the abandonment of the terms more associated with biological sex than gender. I don’t make the rules for the Woke, I just try to understand what angles and tactics they adopt.

I'd say Matt Walsh's documentary "What is a woman?" had a lot to do with that. He cuts right through a lot of the bullshit that's been thrown up to confuse the issue.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on October 24, 2023, 06:52:11 AM
I don’t know that it’s really about how the ferengi say female. I think that if you’re trans-supporting the word has become a problem for some. One line of argument has been that gender and sex are different, as in completely different. It doesn’t matter any hypocrisy this view may have had, such as demanding birth certificates update the description from male to female, which shouldn’t matter if the categories of gender and sex are that different. The recent emphasis on the counter argument that a woman being an adult human female, contrasted to ‘transwomen are women’ may be creating a desire for the words such as female or male to be avoided by the Woke. If the categories for gender and sex are truly and completely different, a Woke tactic may be to push for the abandonment of the terms more associated with biological sex than gender. I don’t make the rules for the Woke, I just try to understand what angles and tactics they adopt.

Some people like to understand serial killers, too. I prefer they just roast in Hell.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on October 30, 2023, 10:50:06 PM


Does anyone actually care what mentally ill people think at this point?

Isn't "care[ing] what mentally ill people think" what this particular thread is devoted to?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thornhammer on October 30, 2023, 11:45:02 PM

 "What is a woman?"

A miserable little pile of secrets. But enough talk. Have at you!

Sorry, I could NOT resist. Every fucking time, I can hear Dracula saying it. Ahh, the classics.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abbo1993 on November 03, 2023, 10:26:37 AM
Apparently the purple cunts decided to hide their degeneracy by forcing everybody to log in to see the infraction tickets, a shame, I was quite entertained by their fuckery.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on November 03, 2023, 10:36:35 AM
Apparently the purple cunts decided to hide their degeneracy by forcing everybody to log in to see the infraction tickets, a shame, I was quite entertained by their fuckery.
I theoretically still have an active account there (I stopped posting c. 2014 and only posted on D&D mechanical threads before that, so it should have avoided any ban hammers), so I might have to go look and repost for others.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 03, 2023, 12:36:15 PM
There's already pushback on it in Trouble Tickets. This might be interesting.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 03, 2023, 06:18:02 PM
They seem to have screwed up the implementation. Some users are reporting being unable to see the Infractions sub-forum despite being logged in, and having the requisite number of posts that is supposed to allow them to view it.

No good explanation has been provided. I suspect they’re trying to further obscure the standards they seem to enforce/inflict on their members. Making it difficult to understand where the enticement lines are, makes it easier for the mods to rule by fear. If multiple posters are infracted for the same incident they can’t be aware of each other getting infracted. They also can’t be aware of posters who maybe should have been infracted, but were allowed to skate for whatever reason.

Every few months it seems the admins take stock of TBP and determine the next steps they need to take to better emulate a dystopia.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on November 03, 2023, 09:14:34 PM
I suspect that with the Israel/Palestine war going on, they've been infracting people over it and are afraid of being visibly on The Wrong Side of History if whichever side they've been punishing turns out to be the victor in the court of public opinion.  If, say, they banned a bunch of people for complaining about Hamas and Hamas goes and gasses a town next week, well yikes.  Oof even.  Suuuure would be a bad look for them.  So they're making it harder to see what all they're doing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BadApple on November 03, 2023, 09:30:18 PM
IT's really sad to me that people can't explore difficult issues, be wrong, grow,learn, and forgive anymore.  The thing I miss most the left has taken is our ability to be flawed and still have value in our humanity.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on November 03, 2023, 10:36:48 PM
Unfortunately thanks to Internet cretins, everyone to the right of Current Year twitter is a fascist Nazi whose continued existence is deeply harmful to everyone, and they must be removed at all costs.  Simply disagreeing with people is passe.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 04, 2023, 12:55:27 AM
This is their explanation:

Here's why we're trying this:
1. We've had issues with offsite people skimming Infractions to help target harassment.
2. It's often done through zero post sockpuppet accounts.
3. We've had requests from former users to remove their infractions from Google. (I know robots.txt is an option, but it's not fine-grained enough.)
4. At the same time, we want to maintain visibility for members of the community.

We haven't had a recorded e-mail bounce from the forums for at least 120 days. If it starts happening again, we'll change what we're doing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on November 04, 2023, 12:57:24 AM
This is their explanation:

Here's why we're trying this:
1. We've had issues with offsite people skimming Infractions to help target harassment.
2. It's often done through zero post sockpuppet accounts.
3. We've had requests from former users to remove their infractions from Google. (I know robots.txt is an option, but it's not fine-grained enough.)
4. At the same time, we want to maintain visibility for members of the community.

We haven't had a recorded e-mail bounce from the forums for at least 120 days. If it starts happening again, we'll change what we're doing.

Let's be honest, some asshole from here went there with the tale about how we ROTFLMAO about their idiocy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 04, 2023, 04:21:50 AM
Abusers like to keep their abuse under the radar. Can't have people peeping in the windows to see them smacking users around the place.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: I on November 04, 2023, 06:07:16 AM
Let's be honest, some asshole from here went there with the tale about how we ROTFLMAO about their idiocy.

That's it exactly.  You'd think since they "are better than that," "on the right side of history" etc. etc., they'd be proud of their censorious behavior and want the whole world to see what guardians of purity they are.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 04, 2023, 10:32:19 AM
This is their explanation:

Here's why we're trying this:
1. We've had issues with offsite people skimming Infractions to help target harassment.
2. It's often done through zero post sockpuppet accounts.
3. We've had requests from former users to remove their infractions from Google. (I know robots.txt is an option, but it's not fine-grained enough.)
4. At the same time, we want to maintain visibility for members of the community.

We haven't had a recorded e-mail bounce from the forums for at least 120 days. If it starts happening again, we'll change what we're doing.
1. Exactly how? For what? At this point, being banned from TBP should be considered a point in your favor.
2. And? Their point is?
3. I'm sorry, what? Unless you're posting under your given name or something, why the hell should that be an issue?
4. No, they don't, and they're fucking liars.

Their email system has been documented as being utter shit (people trying to get password resets, for example) for a while. So the last bit is garbage too.

What a bunch of morons.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on November 06, 2023, 09:05:24 AM
I also wonder what happens over there if someone openly criticizes BLM now? Are they still pretending they’re the bees knees?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on November 06, 2023, 07:29:10 PM
Let's be honest, some asshole from here went there with the tale about how we ROTFLMAO about their idiocy.

I'm pretty sure they used to watch this forum quite closely.  If I had to guess, it's to protect themselves from future lawsuits.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 07, 2023, 09:25:31 AM
Let's be honest, some asshole from here went there with the tale about how we ROTFLMAO about their idiocy.

I'm pretty sure they used to watch this forum quite closely.  If I had to guess, it's to protect themselves from future lawsuits.
I doubt it's that complex. They probably just hate being mocked.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Darrin Kelley on November 07, 2023, 11:00:43 AM
It's been about six months since I was banned from TBP. And I honestly don't miss it.

I don't miss the mods who have a random axe to grind. I feel free in a way I haven't in a long time.

I think I'm finally done with that place.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 09, 2023, 08:26:06 AM
So evidently they couldn't get it to work. LOL.

Miss Atomic Bomb is continuing to work on a way to hide their trophy board away (although how that works, when people can simply sign up with inactive/dummy accounts to monitor the subforum, is beyond me).

I think the whole 'harassment' angle is a dodge, myself. I wonder if someone has pointed out that their policies are inconsistently applied and it made them have the sadfeels.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on November 09, 2023, 09:56:24 AM
Based on the belief that they're reading this forum right now, my guess is that they don't like their bad faith and hostility  being recorded and mocked.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 09, 2023, 10:34:27 AM
Based on the belief that they're reading this forum right now, my guess is that they don't like their bad faith and hostility  being recorded and mocked.
They should be careful. They might get infected with wrongthink. :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abraxus on November 09, 2023, 12:01:30 PM
It's been about six months since I was banned from TBP. And I honestly don't miss it.

I don't miss the mods who have a random axe to grind. I feel free in a way I haven't in a long time.

I think I'm finally done with that place.

For me it is longer and it’s trivially easy to get past the ban. Except once I got a new IPhone at the start of the year and forgot my login info I too don’t miss it. Why go even in secret to read up on stuff written by mostly deranged minds that hate being challenged so good bye and even more good damn riddance.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on November 10, 2023, 08:04:36 AM
Based on the belief that they're reading this forum right now, my guess is that they don't like their bad faith and hostility  being recorded and mocked.
They should be careful. They might get infected with wrongthink. :)
The woke mind-virus prevents all others infections. The infection inoculates against rational thought (its a tool of the oppressor) so you literally cannot deprogram the woke with knowledge or reason.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on November 10, 2023, 10:14:37 AM
Based on the belief that they're reading this forum right now, my guess is that they don't like their bad faith and hostility  being recorded and mocked.
They should be careful. They might get infected with wrongthink. :)
The woke mind-virus prevents all others infections. The infection inoculates against rational thought (its a tool of the oppressor) so you literally cannot deprogram the woke with knowledge or reason.

What about enemas?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 12, 2023, 10:08:48 PM
Based on the belief that they're reading this forum right now, my guess is that they don't like their bad faith and hostility  being recorded and mocked.
They should be careful. They might get infected with wrongthink. :)
The woke mind-virus prevents all others infections. The infection inoculates against rational thought (its a tool of the oppressor) so you literally cannot deprogram the woke with knowledge or reason.
Not necessarily. However, it does usually require such a massive degree of cognitive dissonance that it might kill the recipient. Think of it like psychological chemotherapy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BadApple on November 13, 2023, 08:33:56 AM
Based on the belief that they're reading this forum right now, my guess is that they don't like their bad faith and hostility  being recorded and mocked.
They should be careful. They might get infected with wrongthink. :)
The woke mind-virus prevents all others infections. The infection inoculates against rational thought (its a tool of the oppressor) so you literally cannot deprogram the woke with knowledge or reason.
Not necessarily. However, it does usually require such a massive degree of cognitive dissonance that it might kill the recipient. Think of it like psychological chemotherapy.

I try to push for the most humanitarian option but the far left isn't really giving us one.  If the choice is to be forced to go along with their woke idiology-come-suicide cult or cause so much so much cognitive dissonance with truth and rationality that they become mentally unstable and kill themselves, I pick the latter.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on November 13, 2023, 10:38:39 AM
Based on the belief that they're reading this forum right now, my guess is that they don't like their bad faith and hostility  being recorded and mocked.
They should be careful. They might get infected with wrongthink. :)
The woke mind-virus prevents all others infections. The infection inoculates against rational thought (its a tool of the oppressor) so you literally cannot deprogram the woke with knowledge or reason.
Not necessarily. However, it does usually require such a massive degree of cognitive dissonance that it might kill the recipient. Think of it like psychological chemotherapy.

I try to push for the most humanitarian option but the far left isn't really giving us one.  If the choice is to be forced to go along with their woke idiology-come-suicide cult or cause so much so much cognitive dissonance with truth and rationality that they become mentally unstable and kill themselves, I pick the latter.
Anyone refusing to join the Woke cult would not be the cause of the suicide. That lies within the suicidal person themselves. Those who refuse to join the cult are not the ones exercising the agency behind the suicide in this scenario. Perhaps a fine point, but I think a necessary one. Assigning the responsibility for the suicide to the non-Woke is how they try to emotionally blackmail us into compliance.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Domina on November 14, 2023, 11:34:27 AM
Witch, druid, warlock, cleric etc. are all fine. It doesn't matter where they came from or what they originally meant. All that matters is what they mean currently, and since what they mean is defined in the rules that are the same for everyone playing a given system, they function perfectly well. Usage is meaning.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on November 16, 2023, 11:57:45 AM
  We keep calling them crazy, unhinged, etc.  Reality is they are making the calls for government policy, running the institutions, and controlling media for entertainment from games to movies.  I feel the RPGnet is not a thing that is a cause, it is simply a symptom.  Reality is though its a huge site and they do the banning for what they determine to be "problematic".  These people are quite simply your enemies.  I personally do not care if an enemy dies.  At all.  I also think discussing their madness all the time is probably not as cathartic as it should be as I can not imagine anything new happening there that can top what ever has already happened. 

    Just think of them as your enemies and dont let them take any bandwidth in your day.   The only way they go away is the sane people vote with their dollars, ballots and get out in person and start making these idiots understand we see them as our enemies, not people we disagree with.  They already view you as an enemy so the smartest thing you can do is give them the same and let them know it. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on January 02, 2024, 02:51:27 PM
Looks like TBP has added a new game(s) that are banned discussion: CHILL 3rd Edition and Beast the Primordial are banned topics.

Edit: Further add
Chill 3rd Edition, Beast: the Primordial, and Matthew McFarland are banned topics on RPG.net. The main books for these two games credited Matthew McFarland, a permanently banned former moderator, as lead designer. Due to McFarland's communications since his removal from the site in 2017, later revelations offsite, and communications from individuals connected to him, we don't feel that it's safe for users to discuss those games here.

I'm just......boggled that people could feel unsafe about discussion on an rpg.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on January 02, 2024, 03:08:06 PM
Looks like TBP has added a new game(s) that are banned discussion: CHILL 3rd Edition and Beast the Primordial are banned topics.

Edit: Further add
Chill 3rd Edition, Beast: the Primordial, and Matthew McFarland are banned topics on RPG.net. The main books for these two games credited Matthew McFarland, a permanently banned former moderator, as lead designer. Due to McFarland's communications since his removal from the site in 2017, later revelations offsite, and communications from individuals connected to him, we don't feel that it's safe for users to discuss those games here.

I'm just......boggled that people could feel unsafe about discussion on an rpg.

Are you kidding?

These are the same people who go fetal in a "safe space" with crayons and Play-Doh whenever the "wrong" person gets elected to anything.

The very act of someone having a different POV makes them feel unsafe.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abbo1993 on January 02, 2024, 03:34:00 PM
I'm actually doubtful people are this retarded in real life play, Internet acts like a shield for when you spew the kind of bullshit the purple dipshits like jerking off to but I have serious difficulty thinking that anyone wouldn't just tell people to fuck off if they were to try it in real life.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 02, 2024, 05:42:26 PM
Looks like TBP has added a new game(s) that are banned discussion: CHILL 3rd Edition and Beast the Primordial are banned topics.

Edit: Further add
Chill 3rd Edition, Beast: the Primordial, and Matthew McFarland are banned topics on RPG.net. The main books for these two games credited Matthew McFarland, a permanently banned former moderator, as lead designer. Due to McFarland's communications since his removal from the site in 2017, later revelations offsite, and communications from individuals connected to him, we don't feel that it's safe for users to discuss those games here.

I'm just......boggled that people could feel unsafe about discussion on an rpg.
Another example of how the Woke are just like a cult. Matthew McFarland isn’t merely a very bad person, but he’s also unclean. A taboo. Anything touched by Matthew McFarland is therefore also unclean/taboo. He was lead designer on these games, but I don’t believe that he owns them; nevermind that many others also worked on these games. They are taboo. If they allow discussion of those games the. TBP would become unclean each and every time those games were discussed.

One could accuse TBP of therefore also being unclean, but:
1. Nobody hardly ever cancels themselves, and
2. The TBP goes through a process of absolution each day they proclaim their Wokeness.

There could be an argument that TBP could go ahead and discuss those games since they constantly go through a process of absolution, but that would be trying to get by on a technicality. TBP is a forum for true believers, so they ban the unclean outright.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: 1stLevelWizard on January 02, 2024, 09:22:57 PM
It's nuts to think that there's even a sizable group of people that enjoy living in a self-inflicted Soviet style life. I mean everybody on there has to practically walk on eggshells or risk being banned/reprimanded. Not only that, but you have to conform to such chaotic and ever-changing rules to conform to what is considered "safe" to talk about.

Something I've noticed with a lot of these people is that they obsessively research who the author is, and maybe I'm just some backwards yokel but I've never done that. Just about every book I've read and game I've played I've went without ever knowing who the author is and what their personal views are on the world: I don't care. I bought Dragon Age the RPG, played it, and enjoyed it. I was later informed of Chris Pramas' political views, and despite not liking them I still play the game. Now if it came out that the proceeds funded something heinous like slave labor, sure I'd disavow it and wouldn't buy it. But it didn't, and I don't even know Chris Pramas so I'm gonna keep playing it.

The only exception I can justify is if it's something really on the nose and obvious, which tends to be extremely ideologically driven works like Blue Rose or Myfarog. Then I'd avoid them.

I just can't imagine living like this.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on January 02, 2024, 11:27:03 PM
Memoryholing McFarland is no surprise, given that he's an accused child rapist, so they probably don't want people pointing out that he'd been a mod on the site and good buds with the staff.  And Beast is basically creepy molester victim-blaming: the RPG, so it's not much of a stretch for them not wanting that brought up either.  I don't know much about Chill aside from having seen it on the shelves back in the 90s, so no idea what beef they'd have with that aside from McFarland having been the author for it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on January 03, 2024, 12:16:04 AM
I'm basing this on things that happened years past but am I the only one who thought Cessna was/is an interesting and bizarre case over there? I think he was ex-military or something. Remember when he banned himself? We were both interested in Mesoamerican cultures, and talked about art/games in that setting, but I don't see things through rose-tinted glasses so he freaked out when I mentioned brutal warfare and human sacrifice. Does anyone know anything about this person?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 03, 2024, 12:54:12 AM
Well, I had a friendly relationship with Cessna and we had a number of private discussions about the moderation.  I expect he eventually became weary of them.  I think he's a good guy who got stuck in one of those situations where you have to please a lot of people and can't really please anyone.  The thing he said that probably describes his position best was, "I just want people to be nice to each other."

Frankly, if I'd had to deal with the kind of passive aggressive baiting and bad faith that went on there I'd have just banned everyone.

He posts here once in a while but I suspect there's just too many people with grudges going back to him being the Admin at tbp for many years and a mod before that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yosemitemike on January 03, 2024, 03:42:25 AM
I remember a guy who had the temerity to open a topic asking if political correctness had gone to far.  He was immediately dogpiled by the bad faith actors saying that he was just a bigoted asshole who was mad that he couldn't be a bigoted asshole more openly now.  They used the usual tactics of saying it without quite saying it in so many words.  He did not respond to this shitstorm of attacks and vitriol.  The original poster was banned for two weeks for trolling because he did not respond to this stuff.  The people who attacked him did not even get a stern, red text talking to.  There wasn't even the most perfunctory response to this from the staff.  It was Cessna who posted the ban. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 03, 2024, 07:53:01 AM
The reality is that Cessna oversaw the huge shift in forum culture.  Under Kuma it was still pretty open to ganging up and group attacks as long as you attacked the 'right' groups.  Cessna led the charge to make tbp a nicer and more welcoming place.  But the transition was slow and a lot of people who were sick of the lopsided approach came here.  To some extent I think the goal wasn't entirely bad in its intention but it was perversely open to abuse and a lot of us were going there to vent and blow off some steam and get a little rough and tumble.  It was our home and they were taking it away from us.  But frankly, I was a troll and a bad actor. I was bombastic and I was obnoxious and I had fun doing it because I learned quite quickly that going along with the crowd didn't make you popular, it made you invisible.  If you wanted people to read your posts and respond, you had to be controversial.

These days, other than taking a cheap shot at D&D now and then I mostly don't bother.

But when it comes down to it Cessna was the man driving the train when it went off the tracks and a lot of people can't forgive him for it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yosemitemike on January 03, 2024, 09:41:19 AM
I was there.  Dogpiling was common and no effective action was taken against it.  People who made the right political noise and attacked the right targets could say whatever the hell they wanted without consequence.  Remember redredderreddest and her schreeching tantrums where she called everyone racist?  How long did that go on with the staff doing nothing?  You could even openly threaten violence if you had the right politics and made your threats against the right people.  Remember Amado G?  If there was an effort to make the place more welcoming to anyone but the SJW brigade, I didn't notice it.  I once got into an argument with Cessna and didn't shut up when he made veiled threats about my argumentative posting style.  I was no more argumentative than he was.  Sure enough, later that day I was permanently banned for being argumentative.  Fancy that.  That made it a bit more personal for me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Dan Davenport on January 03, 2024, 10:07:47 AM
I was there.  Dogpiling was common and no effective action was taken against it.  People who made the right political noise and attacked the right targets could say whatever the hell they wanted without consequence.  Remember redredderreddest and her schreeching tantrums where she called everyone racist?  How long did that go on with the staff doing nothing?  You could even openly threaten violence if you had the right politics and made your threats against the right people.  Remember Amado G?  If there was an effort to make the place more welcoming to anyone but the SJW brigade, I didn't notice it.  I once got into an argument with Cessna and didn't shut up when he made veiled threats about my argumentative posting style.  I was no more argumentative than he was.  Sure enough, later that day I was permanently banned for being argumentative.  Fancy that.  That made it a bit more personal for me.

For the record, I was a Mod for RPGnet back in the day. I set out to make it a friendlier and more even-handed place, including calling out unruly Leftists. Behind the scenes, it was explained to me that favoring Leftism was acceptable because it's like a party where most of the people are of one persuasion, making it rude to bring up another POV.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on January 03, 2024, 10:29:04 AM
I was there.  Dogpiling was common and no effective action was taken against it.  People who made the right political noise and attacked the right targets could say whatever the hell they wanted without consequence.  Remember redredderreddest and her schreeching tantrums where she called everyone racist?  How long did that go on with the staff doing nothing?  You could even openly threaten violence if you had the right politics and made your threats against the right people.  Remember Amado G?  If there was an effort to make the place more welcoming to anyone but the SJW brigade, I didn't notice it.  I once got into an argument with Cessna and didn't shut up when he made veiled threats about my argumentative posting style.  I was no more argumentative than he was.  Sure enough, later that day I was permanently banned for being argumentative.  Fancy that.  That made it a bit more personal for me.

For the record, I was a Mod for RPGnet back in the day. I set out to make it a friendlier and more even-handed place, including calling out unruly Leftists. Behind the scenes, it was explained to me that favoring Leftism was acceptable because it's like a party where most of the people are of one persuasion, making it rude to bring up another POV.

Do you know Cessna? I'm not asking to dogpile on the guy, I just thought his behavior was bizarre at times. It could be as David Johansen says, that Cessna was trying to be a "good guy" while at the same time trying to stay "friends" with a whole forum that was getting more and more toxic, but I can't make any one explanation fit all that I saw really. Sometimes he seemed to be the friendly guy, other times he was quadrupling down on the toxicity.

Come to think of it, his behavior resembles some professors I know, trying to stay "rational & objective" and at the same time buying into (or pretending to) all the latest race and gender bullshit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 03, 2024, 12:10:58 PM
The problem with trying to please everyone in that situation is that invariably, the toxicity rises too high to ignore.

Both Salinea and Aikireikinu have stepped down now as mods. Why? Who knows.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 03, 2024, 01:10:52 PM
I can't recall if Cessna was a mod when Redredderredest was in full bloom.  There was the dominant Tangency clique of Theron, Redredderreddest, Winna, Holy Bear, Unhelig, Djtheuti, Gareth Micheal Skarka, Judas and a couple others just dominated the forum.  Cessna wasn't the admin at the time of the "Ban Me Mother Fucker" incident.  If I remember right it happened with Kuma bringing in new rules as Admin and trying to cut down on some of the popular sports of the day like "Nazi Baiting","Dog Piling Christians","Coming Out As Something Weirder Than The Last Guy", Blackberry was the champion of the last on until,007 Bistromath killed the game by bragging about fucking his matress and being a child molester.  The wild west had to end because there are some lines even a gay rabbit furry wouldn't cross.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 03, 2024, 02:45:34 PM
I can't recall if Cessna was a mod when Redredderredest was in full bloom.  There was the dominant Tangency clique of Theron, Redredderreddest, Winna, Holy Bear, Unhelig, Djtheuti, Gareth Micheal Skarka, Judas and a couple others just dominated the forum.  Cessna wasn't the admin at the time of the "Ban Me Mother Fucker" incident.  If I remember right it happened with Kuma bringing in new rules as Admin and trying to cut down on some of the popular sports of the day like "Nazi Baiting","Dog Piling Christians","Coming Out As Something Weirder Than The Last Guy", Blackberry was the champion of the last on until,007 Bistromath killed the game by bragging about fucking his matress and being a child molester.  The wild west had to end because there are some lines even a gay rabbit furry wouldn't cross.

Oh God. The memories. :D Back at the time, I was pretty asleep at the wheel. I thought that anything anyone said in earnest must be true. That allowed a lot of terrible ideas to rattle around my brain without any critical thought.
People vomitting their insecurities and personal issues on a forum about RPGs. The place was like a therapy session for many posters. And it wasn't a healthy or productive place to do that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 03, 2024, 06:05:02 PM
Looks like TBP has added a new game(s) that are banned discussion: CHILL 3rd Edition and Beast the Primordial are banned topics.

Edit: Further add
Chill 3rd Edition, Beast: the Primordial, and Matthew McFarland are banned topics on RPG.net. The main books for these two games credited Matthew McFarland, a permanently banned former moderator, as lead designer. Due to McFarland's communications since his removal from the site in 2017, later revelations offsite, and communications from individuals connected to him, we don't feel that it's safe for users to discuss those games here.

I'm just......boggled that people could feel unsafe about discussion on an rpg.

Black Hat Matt is an example of RPG.net Hypocrisy in action. Hell he's the guy who banned me from RPG.net ten years ago. He led the charge during gamergate to ban anyone for wrong think... only for a couple years later for some pretty damning evidence against him as being a rapist. This is one of those cases where the evidence was pretty substantial and he didn't even really claim to be innocent.

Beast itself and it's contents made A LOT of people uncomfortable. Not just those on the left, but those on the right too. It underwent substantial rewrites with Matt at the helm, and to this day makes pretty much everyone who reads it feel squicky. I'm a die hard World of Darkness fan and the contents of Beast are pretty much playing a horrible person... not in the "I drink blood to survive" but in the "I actually go out of my way to psychologically abuse others because I like it" kind of game. Matt was literally trying to make the game a trans metaphor and even the trans community on RPG.net was like "Whoa, Whoa, no we don't want this as our metaphor."

As for Chill... Yes he is in fact the Intellectual property owner of Chill now. He flat out bought it.

While I'm not normally in favor of censorship and I'm not approving of it... this is one of the few cases I understand and think they had a legitimate reason to do so.

Nobody Likes Matt anymore.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on January 03, 2024, 06:41:50 PM
Looks like TBP has added a new game(s) that are banned discussion: CHILL 3rd Edition and Beast the Primordial are banned topics.

Edit: Further add
Chill 3rd Edition, Beast: the Primordial, and Matthew McFarland are banned topics on RPG.net. The main books for these two games credited Matthew McFarland, a permanently banned former moderator, as lead designer. Due to McFarland's communications since his removal from the site in 2017, later revelations offsite, and communications from individuals connected to him, we don't feel that it's safe for users to discuss those games here.

I'm just......boggled that people could feel unsafe about discussion on an rpg.

Black Hat Matt is an example of RPG.net Hypocrisy in action. Hell he's the guy who banned me from RPG.net ten years ago. He led the charge during gamergate to ban anyone for wrong think... only for a couple years later for some pretty damning evidence against him as being a rapist. This is one of those cases where the evidence was pretty substantial and he didn't even really claim to be innocent.

Beast itself and it's contents made A LOT of people uncomfortable. Not just those on the left, but those on the right too. It underwent substantial rewrites with Matt at the helm, and to this day makes pretty much everyone who reads it feel squicky. I'm a die hard World of Darkness fan and the contents of Beast are pretty much playing a horrible person... not in the "I drink blood to survive" but in the "I actually go out of my way to psychologically abuse others because I like it" kind of game. Matt was literally trying to make the game a trans metaphor and even the trans community on RPG.net was like "Whoa, Whoa, no we don't want this as our metaphor."

As for Chill... Yes he is in fact the Intellectual property owner of Chill now. He flat out bought it.

While I'm not normally in favor of censorship and I'm not approving of it... this is one of the few cases I understand and think they had a legitimate reason to do so.

Nobody Likes Matt anymore.

What's with all the anti-Gamergate people who turn out to be psychos?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on January 03, 2024, 07:00:37 PM
Black Hat Matt is an example of RPG.net Hypocrisy in action. Hell he's the guy who banned me from RPG.net ten years ago. He led the charge during gamergate to ban anyone for wrong think... only for a couple years later for some pretty damning evidence against him as being a rapist. This is one of those cases where the evidence was pretty substantial and he didn't even really claim to be innocent.
.....

Ooooohhhh, that's black hat matt? Yeah, I remember that douche now....I didn't connect the dots.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on January 03, 2024, 07:02:02 PM
What's with all the anti-Gamergate people who turn out to be psychos?

exactly! I liked enworld back in the day and they had a psycho exposed....several as I recall? I don't remember their handles, and frankly I don't really care, but when shit came out about them there was a lot of hand wringing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 03, 2024, 07:53:00 PM
Looks like TBP has added a new game(s) that are banned discussion: CHILL 3rd Edition and Beast the Primordial are banned topics.

Edit: Further add
Chill 3rd Edition, Beast: the Primordial, and Matthew McFarland are banned topics on RPG.net. The main books for these two games credited Matthew McFarland, a permanently banned former moderator, as lead designer. Due to McFarland's communications since his removal from the site in 2017, later revelations offsite, and communications from individuals connected to him, we don't feel that it's safe for users to discuss those games here.

I'm just......boggled that people could feel unsafe about discussion on an rpg.

Black Hat Matt is an example of RPG.net Hypocrisy in action. Hell he's the guy who banned me from RPG.net ten years ago. He led the charge during gamergate to ban anyone for wrong think... only for a couple years later for some pretty damning evidence against him as being a rapist. This is one of those cases where the evidence was pretty substantial and he didn't even really claim to be innocent.

Beast itself and it's contents made A LOT of people uncomfortable. Not just those on the left, but those on the right too. It underwent substantial rewrites with Matt at the helm, and to this day makes pretty much everyone who reads it feel squicky. I'm a die hard World of Darkness fan and the contents of Beast are pretty much playing a horrible person... not in the "I drink blood to survive" but in the "I actually go out of my way to psychologically abuse others because I like it" kind of game. Matt was literally trying to make the game a trans metaphor and even the trans community on RPG.net was like "Whoa, Whoa, no we don't want this as our metaphor."

As for Chill... Yes he is in fact the Intellectual property owner of Chill now. He flat out bought it.

While I'm not normally in favor of censorship and I'm not approving of it... this is one of the few cases I understand and think they had a legitimate reason to do so.

Nobody Likes Matt anymore.

What's with all the anti-Gamergate people who turn out to be psychos?
A kind of diversion of fault for any shame they feel for being a crap person. He might realize he’s a shit, but he can’t stand the sense of shame he’d have if he looked at himself, so he assigns traits as bad or even worse to someone else.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 03, 2024, 10:18:34 PM
Black Hat Matt is one of the OG White Wolf staffers. Not there from the very beginning, but in the same group as Justin Achilli, Ethan Skemp, and Mathew Sheppard. I remember I looked up to him a lot as a teenager and a dude in my early 20s. Read his blog and loved all of his work.

When Gamergate hit he went FULL on woke, rabid Cancel Pig. He also by that time had really nestled himself inside of RPG.net and had only been a mod for a couple years. It had sort of distanced himself from the rest of the Whitewolf crew and staff at the time (who were now owned by CCP).

He was unpersoned (rightfully so) by everyone on all sides of the political and gaming spectrum... but it makes me wonder if he was distancing himself from the old white wolf crew and buddying up with the RPG.net mods because his guilt was catching up with him and he wanted to reinvent his identity so to speak.

Beast was really his big last project for Whitewolf/OnyxPath and it was post gamergate, it went over like a Lead Balloon, Left or Right, nobody liked it and it was weird as fuck. The bad guys that Beasts fought were called "Heroes" and by that time were fulfilling the trope of "Rabid Progressive Leftist doesn't realize the Villains he's created are actually the good guys of the setting."

But yeah him banning me 10 years ago during Gamergate was a real eye opener of "Never meet your Heroes." The fact he was outed as a sex pest and a fucking monstrous one at that only confirmed the other trope of resetting the clock every time a male feminist gets outted for being a creeper.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yosemitemike on January 04, 2024, 03:29:58 AM
I don't know Cessna and wasn't privy to any of the stuff that was going on behind the scenes.  All I know is that, if there was anything being done to rein in the mean girls clique that controlled Tangency or make the place any more welcoming to anyone else, the results were not evident from my perspective as a regular user.  Those people still said whatever the fuck they wanted with, at most, only token moderation.  Remember when red and her clique would go into topics they did not approve of and derail it with anal sex discussion to get it locked.  Remember when they talked about what they were going to do right out in the open?  Nothing happened.  Remember when someone finally had the temerity to moderate dear old red for her personal attacks?  She has a massive public temper tantrum and caused a ton of drama.  Nothing was really done.  I'm surprised they didn't make her a moderator like they did with several of the other bad actors.  I remember what these people were getting up to and how much nothing at all was done to address it in any effective way.

Remember when members of the staff that work with Onyx Path were banning people who were critical of Onyx Path's products and nothing was done about this obvious conflict of interest?  That was fun.

Beast is creepy and weird.  I played one for a little while in a game.  The character started as a 1e Promethean social monster type.  The GM went to 2e partway through the game.  I initially remade her as 2e Promethean.  The GM didn't want to use the new social system though.  I don't blame him.  The 2e Promethean splat was centered around manipulating that system though so that character was essentially useless without that system being in use.  I remade her as a Beast.  She was a piece of work.  She fed by manipulating people to ruin their committed relationships.  She actually fed one the despair that people felt when they realized that their relationship was gone.  They had to be there.  That was about as nice as I could make her. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 04, 2024, 09:22:19 AM
I've long believed that one of the goals of rpgnet's moderation team was to undermine their competition and build up their own products.  It's not something that could be proved without some serious data analysis but it always seemed attacks on "the wrong games" were fine while attacks on their darlings weren't.

As I've said many times on this thread, if I was a hacker, I'd out the backstage archives and sit back and laugh as the truth came out.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abbo1993 on January 04, 2024, 02:56:40 PM
Beast was essentially a worse Vampire, it was a stupid concept from the beginning, the fact that the lead writer turned out to be a shitbag came to the surprise of no one, especially considering that a lot of the White Wolf crew were known to be degenerate sex pests even back in the day, onyx path just continue their legacy.

On the subject of Onyx Path, the hunt for anyone who didn't sing praises for their mediocre games didn't just stop at rpg net, I've met people who were banned from various communities on Facebook and reddit, mostly because the mods of the bigger WoD/CofD communities are all buttbuddies.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 04, 2024, 06:45:41 PM
Beast was essentially a worse Vampire, it was a stupid concept from the beginning, the fact that the lead writer turned out to be a shitbag came to the surprise of no one, especially considering that a lot of the White Wolf crew were known to be degenerate sex pests even back in the day, onyx path just continue their legacy.

On the subject of Onyx Path, the hunt for anyone who didn't sing praises for their mediocre games didn't just stop at rpg net, I've met people who were banned from various communities on Facebook and reddit, mostly because the mods of the bigger WoD/CofD communities are all buttbuddies.

This isn't the case  nor has it been the case for the majority of Whitewolf/Onyx Path staff.

As a long time White wolf/Onyx Path forum user... You can trash the games all you want there... Hell the OnxyPath Forums are just as Free Speech orientated as Pundit's here. I've never seen anyone catch a ban on them.

People like Black hatt Matt and Rose Bailey are the weird exceptions who went to RPG.net and became Mods... and In Rose's case I don't think she does much work for Onyx Path anymore.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yosemitemike on January 04, 2024, 07:59:45 PM
I've long believed that one of the goals of rpgnet's moderation team was to undermine their competition and build up their own products.  It's not something that could be proved without some serious data analysis but it always seemed attacks on "the wrong games" were fine while attacks on their darlings weren't.

As I've said many times on this thread, if I was a hacker, I'd out the backstage archives and sit back and laugh as the truth came out.

I have always suspected the same thing.  It was obvious that attacks on certain games and the people who played them was fine while criticizing other games was not allowed.  You could call D&D and D&D players sexist and racist all you wanted.  Eventually, they rewrote the rules to make arguing against or just being skeptical of such claims a bannable offense.  There was always this or that darling that you weren't allowed to criticize though.  Saying anything critical about them would bring on a dogpile which the staff would always ignore.  It was hard to tell whether this was done to promote these games, because they were too spineless to moderate the mean girls or that they ignored this stuff because they agreed with it.  Letting people who work with Onyx Path moderate topics about Onyx Path and their products was an obvious conflict of interest though.  I was hardly the only one who noticed it.  When people brought this up, they justified it and doubled down on it.  If I remember correctly, some of the people who dared to bring this up were banned shortly afterwards. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on January 04, 2024, 10:35:40 PM

...
There was always this or that darling that you weren't allowed to criticize though.  ....

Remember Heartbreak & Heroines?  A kickstarter by this well-adjusted potential predator (as suggested by several allegations)

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/006/116/576/96b2669aa5fe02c5269795a8e3bc7771_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-4.1.0&w=160&h=160&fit=crop&v=1461367593&auto=format&frame=1&q=92&s=f22fcdf1a109e387880d9bd4d5962ea6)

I was relatively new to the forum and was dogpiled for pointing out the blatantly obvious passive-aggressive man-hate coming from the author. The screeching was insane (holy smokes, all of that was 13 years ago!)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 04, 2024, 10:45:18 PM

...
There was always this or that darling that you weren't allowed to criticize though.  ....

Remember Heartbreak & Heroines?  A kickstarter by this well-adjusted potential predator (as suggested by several allegations)

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/006/116/576/96b2669aa5fe02c5269795a8e3bc7771_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-4.1.0&w=160&h=160&fit=crop&v=1461367593&auto=format&frame=1&q=92&s=f22fcdf1a109e387880d9bd4d5962ea6)

I was relatively new to the forum and was dogpiled for pointing out the blatantly obvious passive-aggressive man-hate coming from the author. The screeching was insane (holy smokes, all of that was 13 years ago!)

And in the end, they ended up banning that person too.

And I'm not saying that to defend them... the opposite. That weirdo was unhinged from the get go, but they have them the 'benefit' of the doubt and lots of chances based on their identity.

There's a ton of unhinged extreme progressives who ended up getting the ban hammer too, for just being far too blatant in their abuse of anyone who didn't agree with them. But these were the folks who were tolerated for years sometimes before they were kicked off.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 05, 2024, 12:08:11 AM

...
There was always this or that darling that you weren't allowed to criticize though.  ....

Remember Heartbreak & Heroines?  A kickstarter by this well-adjusted potential predator (as suggested by several allegations)

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/006/116/576/96b2669aa5fe02c5269795a8e3bc7771_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-4.1.0&w=160&h=160&fit=crop&v=1461367593&auto=format&frame=1&q=92&s=f22fcdf1a109e387880d9bd4d5962ea6)

I was relatively new to the forum and was dogpiled for pointing out the blatantly obvious passive-aggressive man-hate coming from the author. The screeching was insane (holy smokes, all of that was 13 years ago!)
I remember that particular walking disaster. Reminded me of the shitstorm around him being accused of rape, and if I recall correctly he admitted to it in a thread, but tried to claim it was really a misunderstanding. I think reading about that rape was my first awareness of transgender ideology. (I’ve lived a sheltered and blessed life in that regard,perhaps.) I had to reread the story 2-3 times to understand it wasn’t a woman raping a man, but the reverse, but the transgender identities were tripping me up. The Woke would have had this be counted as an example of women committing sexual violence against men.

https://apresvie.livejournal.com/183491.html?noscroll&utm_medium=endless_scroll#comments

He was allowed to have a presence on TBP until around 2019, eight years after his rape accusations came up. If he was not in a protected class at TBP they would’ve applied the banhammer a lot sooner. I don’t think there was ever a criminal trial, but TBP has not taken the stance that such are necessary to ban someone if they want to.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on January 05, 2024, 12:26:09 AM

...
There was always this or that darling that you weren't allowed to criticize though.  ....

Remember Heartbreak & Heroines?  A kickstarter by this well-adjusted potential predator (as suggested by several allegations)

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/006/116/576/96b2669aa5fe02c5269795a8e3bc7771_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-4.1.0&w=160&h=160&fit=crop&v=1461367593&auto=format&frame=1&q=92&s=f22fcdf1a109e387880d9bd4d5962ea6)

I was relatively new to the forum and was dogpiled for pointing out the blatantly obvious passive-aggressive man-hate coming from the author. The screeching was insane (holy smokes, all of that was 13 years ago!)
I remember that particular walking disaster. Reminded me of the shitstorm around him being accused of rape, and if I recall correctly he admitted to it in a thread, but tried to claim it was really a misunderstanding. I think reading about that rape was my first awareness of transgender ideology. (I’ve lived a sheltered and blessed life in that regard,perhaps.) I had to reread the story 2-3 times to understand it wasn’t a woman raping a man, but the reverse, but the transgender identities were tripping me up. The Woke would have had this be counted as an example of women committing sexual violence against men.

https://apresvie.livejournal.com/183491.html?noscroll&utm_medium=endless_scroll#comments

He was allowed to have a presence on TBP until around 2019, eight years after his rape accusations came up. If he was not in a protected class at TBP they would’ve applied the banhammer a lot sooner. I don’t think there was ever a criminal trial, but TBP has not taken the stance that such are necessary to ban someone if they want to.

It was early situations like this that made me wonder if the RPG hobby was one of the first to be infested by the woke mind virus (and the reason why I started that discussion elsewhere, to see if there was any particular reason why RPGs were vulnerable to this)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yosemitemike on January 05, 2024, 02:23:43 AM
And in the end, they ended up banning that person too.

And I'm not saying that to defend them... the opposite. That weirdo was unhinged from the get go, but they have them the 'benefit' of the doubt and lots of chances based on their identity.

There's a ton of unhinged extreme progressives who ended up getting the ban hammer too, for just being far too blatant in their abuse of anyone who didn't agree with them. But these were the folks who were tolerated for years sometimes before they were kicked off.

He was eventually banned after years of behavior that would have gotten me banned in a day.  He got away with that kind of bad behavior for that long because of his fashionable trans identity.  Hell, I would have been banned for just declining to go along with the fiction that this is a woman.  Those people got banned eventually but only after years of harassing, bullying abusive behavior that they openly gloated about.  People who had the right identities or the right politics got away with this sort of behavior for a long time without repercussion.  How many times did they dogpile someone who displeased them for whatever reason only to have the target of their attack banned while their behavior was ignored?

I remember when they decided that if someone was offended by something then that thing was offensive.  That became the moderation standard.  To my knowledge, it still is today.  If someone got offended and threw a fit over what you said, then it was offensive whether any reasonable would think it was offensive or not.  The monumental stupidity of that still amazes me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BadApple on January 05, 2024, 02:27:57 AM
It was early situations like this that made me wonder if the RPG hobby was one of the first to be infested by the woke mind virus (and the reason why I started that discussion elsewhere, to see if there was any particular reason why RPGs were vulnerable to this)

I remember when the WOD games got big in the 90s.  Then, there was little that could be considered "woke" at the time in the gaming community but those books were dripping with all the talking points back then; white men bad, men bad, capitalism bad, "save the turtles," colonialism bad, etc.  Meanwhile, the most degenerate RP I have ever seen or heard of comes from WOD session.  Gaming stores, that had been girl kryptonite for my entire life until then, were now flooded with goths bitching about how they had to let us in their spaces.  If you want to know why wokeism is so pervasive in gaming, WOD was that crowd's in.

But I'm not bitter...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 05, 2024, 02:42:34 AM
It was early situations like this that made me wonder if the RPG hobby was one of the first to be infested by the woke mind virus (and the reason why I started that discussion elsewhere, to see if there was any particular reason why RPGs were vulnerable to this)

I remember when the WOD games got big in the 90s.  Then, there was little that could be considered "woke" at the time in the gaming community but those books were dripping with all the talking points back then; white men bad, men bad, capitalism bad, "save the turtles," colonialism bad, etc.  Meanwhile, the most degenerate RP I have ever seen or heard of comes from WOD session.  Gaming stores, that had been girl kryptonite for my entire life until then, were now flooded with goths bitching about how they had to let us in their spaces.  If you want to know why wokeism is so pervasive in gaming, WOD was that crowd's in.

But I'm not bitter...

Speaking as a 42 year old man who started with WoD as my entry to RPGs. Wod was 100 times cooler than anything Dungeons and Dragons was doing in the 90s. Just, hands down. You talk about Girl Kryptonite, and it was entirely that. I was interested in getting laid along with my tabletop games... and wod games got me laid... A lot.

Now, WoD as it was presented in the 90s is downright tame compared to what the Progressive woke rpgs are doing out there today. Go back and read those 90s versions of WoD and they were effectively rebelling against the Christian Right which was the biggest wet blanket in culture in the 80s, 90s and very early 00s. WoD was a giant middle finger to them, it's why it appealed to me and so many others.

But you're way off base trying to blame WoD for this. Wod's popularity crashed completely in the mid 00's thanks to ending the original WoD and switching to what's now known as The Chronicles of Darkness. The Current Crop of Progressive Wokeist came up through Dungeons and Dragons, NOT World of Darkness.

In fact, it's embarassing to see modern World of Darkness trying to play *Catch up* with modern D&D when old school WoD was entirely about fighting the man.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yosemitemike on January 05, 2024, 03:00:33 AM
I remember when the WOD games got big in the 90s.  Then, there was little that could be considered "woke" at the time in the gaming community but those books were dripping with all the talking points back then; white men bad, men bad, capitalism bad, "save the turtles," colonialism bad, etc.  Meanwhile, the most degenerate RP I have ever seen or heard of comes from WOD session.  Gaming stores, that had been girl kryptonite for my entire life until then, were now flooded with goths bitching about how they had to let us in their spaces.  If you want to know why wokeism is so pervasive in gaming, WOD was that crowd's in.

But I'm not bitter...

People pooh-pooh when I say this buy I think a big part of this is the fact that many rpg players are socially awkward people who can't handle confrontation very well.  The goth types, the strident misandrist feminists and the rest of the left wing barking moonbat brigade have no problem bulling their way into a space. declaring it to be theirs and taking it over.  Often, there aren't enough people who are willing to confront them and tell them, "No".  A lot of rpg players just don't know how to handle aggressive people or mean girl tactics.   
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: zircher on January 05, 2024, 03:29:19 AM
Heh, my group and I didn't mind being werewolf eco-terrorists until 9-11 happened.  Then we kind of looked at each other and wondered if we were the bad guys.  The game fell apart after that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BadApple on January 05, 2024, 04:45:27 AM
But you're way off base trying to blame WoD for this. Wod's popularity crashed completely in the mid 00's thanks to ending the original WoD and switching to what's now known as The Chronicles of Darkness. The Current Crop of Progressive Wokeist came up through Dungeons and Dragons, NOT World of Darkness.

In fact, it's embarassing to see modern World of Darkness trying to play *Catch up* with modern D&D when old school WoD was entirely about fighting the man.

WOD was a cyst that popped and allowed that toxin into the bloodstream or the TTRPG world.  The toxic game developers and players started getting into other aspects of the gaming culture.  The WOD community was most definitely full of anti white male, anti American, pro communism people in the 90's and 00's and so were the books.  Go back and read those old WOD books objectively and you will see it clear as day.  I think your ability to get laid with that crowd has made you blind to the reality of the situation.  (Pursuing sex makes most men accept things they ordinarily wouldn't, that's not a character judgement of you.)

D&D 3e and it's derivatives weren't woke.  Neither was 4e.  5e was officially released in 2014 and didn't make the overt pivot to wokeness until about 2019.  D&D being a game of woke bullshit didn't really get going until after 5e dropped, the lead developer left, and Mike Merls took the throne to dispense advice on how to play and guide the construction of the development team of today.  The seeds were there in the beginning, looking at the dev team, but it wasn't a woke product nor an overwhelming woke community until later.

People pooh-pooh when I say this buy I think a big part of this is the fact that many rpg players are socially awkward people who can't handle confrontation very well.  The goth types, the strident misandrist feminists and the rest of the left wing barking moonbat brigade have no problem bulling their way into a space. declaring it to be theirs and taking it over.  Often, there aren't enough people who are willing to confront them and tell them, "No".  A lot of rpg players just don't know how to handle aggressive people or mean girl tactics.   

I was in the Seattle area in the 90s and at the time WOD and MtG made up about 80% of the crowd at the LGS I was playing in.  After one particularly ugly incident, our table went to the manager and complained.  Th essence of that was that the WOD crowd bought more books so they get more control over the space.  We could either learn to put up with them or leave.  We didn't know it was going to be like this until it was too late.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yosemitemike on January 05, 2024, 06:57:30 AM
I was in the Seattle area in the 90s and at the time WOD and MtG made up about 80% of the crowd at the LGS I was playing in.  After one particularly ugly incident, our table went to the manager and complained.  Th essence of that was that the WOD crowd bought more books so they get more control over the space.  We could either learn to put up with them or leave.  We didn't know it was going to be like this until it was too late.

They are all nice and all about tolerance when they first arrive.  All of that changes when they get some leverage or control.  Then it's their space.  Either they blackmailed the owner by threatening to shop elsewhere if they didn't get their way and the owner caved or the owner (almost certainly a guy) was too spineless to confront them in the first place.  He wouldn't or couldn't stand his ground so they walked all over him and took over his store.  That's what happens when you can't or won't stand up to these people and tell them, "No".  They will take over and drive everyone else away.  Then they will move on to the next thing.  The people that they drove away may well never come back.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BadApple on January 05, 2024, 07:20:37 AM
I was in the Seattle area in the 90s and at the time WOD and MtG made up about 80% of the crowd at the LGS I was playing in.  After one particularly ugly incident, our table went to the manager and complained.  Th essence of that was that the WOD crowd bought more books so they get more control over the space.  We could either learn to put up with them or leave.  We didn't know it was going to be like this until it was too late.

They are all nice and all about tolerance when they first arrive.  All of that changes when they get some leverage or control.  Then it's their space.  Either they blackmailed the owner by threatening to shop elsewhere if they didn't get their way and the owner caved or the owner (almost certainly a guy) was too spineless to confront them in the first place.  He wouldn't or couldn't stand his ground so they walked all over him and took over his store.  That's what happens when you can't or won't stand up to these people and tell them, "No".  They will take over and drive everyone else away.  Then they will move on to the next thing.  The people that they drove away may well never come back.

I can't pretend to know the whole story but that location is a a deli the last time I went by. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yosemitemike on January 05, 2024, 08:18:05 AM
I can't pretend to know the whole story but that location is a a deli the last time I went by.

I don't know either but I wouldn't be surprised if letting these people drive off all of the other customers contributed to the place closing.  Letting a group of aggressive people drive off all your other customers is generally not a good idea.  They will eventually leave and, when they do, you won't have anyone left.  I have seen this general pattern play out more than once in stores.  They are all long out of business.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 05, 2024, 08:32:06 AM
And in the end, they ended up banning that person too.

And I'm not saying that to defend them... the opposite. That weirdo was unhinged from the get go, but they have them the 'benefit' of the doubt and lots of chances based on their identity.

There's a ton of unhinged extreme progressives who ended up getting the ban hammer too, for just being far too blatant in their abuse of anyone who didn't agree with them. But these were the folks who were tolerated for years sometimes before they were kicked off.

He was eventually banned after years of behavior that would have gotten me banned in a day.  He got away with that kind of bad behavior for that long because of his fashionable trans identity.  Hell, I would have been banned for just declining to go along with the fiction that this is a woman.  Those people got banned eventually but only after years of harassing, bullying abusive behavior that they openly gloated about.  People who had the right identities or the right politics got away with this sort of behavior for a long time without repercussion.  How many times did they dogpile someone who displeased them for whatever reason only to have the target of their attack banned while their behavior was ignored?

I remember when they decided that if someone was offended by something then that thing was offensive.  That became the moderation standard.  To my knowledge, it still is today.  If someone got offended and threw a fit over what you said, then it was offensive whether any reasonable would think it was offensive or not.  The monumental stupidity of that still amazes me.
Yup. This is the 'onus is on the poster' policy, and of course it's absolutely insane. You can tie yourself into a pretzel and take offense to ANYTHING if you can talk fast enough (bonus points if you're with the 'in crowd').
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on January 05, 2024, 09:16:14 AM
Oh yeah, this reminds me that some of the worst people that picked fights with me on RPG.net were into Vampire. I wonder if it was related to the wave of depressing grunge rock.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on January 05, 2024, 09:37:38 AM
Yup. This is the 'onus is on the poster' policy, and of course it's absolutely insane. You can tie yourself into a pretzel and take offense to ANYTHING if you can talk fast enough (bonus points if you're with the 'in crowd').

  That rule has given the scolds and Anti-Forerunners of TBP a universal "heckler's veto."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BadApple on January 05, 2024, 11:58:04 AM
Oh yeah, this reminds me that some of the worst people that picked fights with me on RPG.net were into Vampire. I wonder if it was related to the wave of depressing grunge rock.

I'm not saying that everyone that played a WOD game was a degenerate scumbag but it was the game that seemed to have the most of them.  Every story I had reason to believe that had any of the kinds of things complained about in "RPG horror stories" came out of VtM. 

There were two cases I was aware of where a table got shut down over actual rape charges; one in the Seattle area, one in the Chicago area.

One of the tables at a game store I was playing in got the hammer brought down on them for blood play at the table.  They were using a hypodermic needle to draw blood and someone was drinking it.  I don't know all the particulars but I did see some of it happen.  Apparently this was all part of their LARPing. 

Arrests were made at another table I was aware of and charges included providing alcohol to a minor, sexual assault, and illegal sexual conduct with a minor.  One of those guys was a regular in a Cyberpunk game I was in.

I have had at least nine different female players tell me stories about aggressive lesbian players in game and in character coming on to them sexually in descriptions that range from over the line creepy to straight up sexual assault.

Mind you, this was all stuff I heard or seen before I knew about the problems of the game developers.  This was also the list of things that bled out of the game and into RL, mostly from LARP or semi-LARP groups.  (It seemed to me that every table was at least a semi-LARP group in the Seattle area.  I had wrongly believed for a while that is was by nature a LARP game.)  Every single player I have ever had tell me war stories told me of in game events I never wanted to be a part of.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Jason Coplen on January 05, 2024, 01:14:09 PM
Oh yeah, this reminds me that some of the worst people that picked fights with me on RPG.net were into Vampire. I wonder if it was related to the wave of depressing grunge rock.

I'm not saying that everyone that played a WOD game was a degenerate scumbag but it was the game that seemed to have the most of them.  Every story I had reason to believe that had any of the kinds of things complained about in "RPG horror stories" came out of VtM. 

There were two cases I was aware of where a table got shut down over actual rape charges; one in the Seattle area, one in the Chicago area.

One of the tables at a game store I was playing in got the hammer brought down on them for blood play at the table.  They were using a hypodermic needle to draw blood and someone was drinking it.  I don't know all the particulars but I did see some of it happen.  Apparently this was all part of their LARPing. 

Arrests were made at another table I was aware of and charges included providing alcohol to a minor, sexual assault, and illegal sexual conduct with a minor.  One of those guys was a regular in a Cyberpunk game I was in.

I have had at least nine different female players tell me stories about aggressive lesbian players in game and in character coming on to them sexually in descriptions that range from over the line creepy to straight up sexual assault.

Mind you, this was all stuff I heard or seen before I knew about the problems of the game developers.  This was also the list of things that bled out of the game and into RL, mostly from LARP or semi-LARP groups.  (It seemed to me that every table was at least a semi-LARP group in the Seattle area.  I had wrongly believed for a while that is was by nature a LARP game.)  Every single player I have ever had tell me war stories told me of in game events I never wanted to be a part of.

Holy shit! I knew it was bad and had heard some horror stories, but nothing this crazy. I remember how the game picked up many non-gamers who shouldn't have been involved, as they were really creepy. I've met creepy players over the year, but when vampire was a big thing they were crawling out from every rock under the sun.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on January 05, 2024, 02:05:24 PM
I'm not saying that everyone that played a WOD game was a degenerate scumbag but it was the game that seemed to have the most of them.  Every story I had reason to believe that had any of the kinds of things complained about in "RPG horror stories" came out of VtM. 

There were two cases I was aware of where a table got shut down over actual rape charges; one in the Seattle area, one in the Chicago area.

One of the tables at a game store I was playing in got the hammer brought down on them for blood play at the table.  They were using a hypodermic needle to draw blood and someone was drinking it.  I don't know all the particulars but I did see some of it happen.  Apparently this was all part of their LARPing. 

Arrests were made at another table I was aware of and charges included providing alcohol to a minor, sexual assault, and illegal sexual conduct with a minor.  One of those guys was a regular in a Cyberpunk game I was in.

I have had at least nine different female players tell me stories about aggressive lesbian players in game and in character coming on to them sexually in descriptions that range from over the line creepy to straight up sexual assault.

Mind you, this was all stuff I heard or seen before I knew about the problems of the game developers.  This was also the list of things that bled out of the game and into RL, mostly from LARP or semi-LARP groups.  (It seemed to me that every table was at least a semi-LARP group in the Seattle area.  I had wrongly believed for a while that is was by nature a LARP game.)  Every single player I have ever had tell me war stories told me of in game events I never wanted to be a part of.

Holeee shit is right! WoD was never a big thing in my area, except at the university (university town), but luckily, that scene never drove the narrative of rpg's in my town. RPG's were still the "only nerds play and get bullied" thing when I was growing up.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on January 05, 2024, 02:51:16 PM
Oh yeah, this reminds me that some of the worst people that picked fights with me on RPG.net were into Vampire. I wonder if it was related to the wave of depressing grunge rock.

I'm not saying that everyone that played a WOD game was a degenerate scumbag but it was the game that seemed to have the most of them.  Every story I had reason to believe that had any of the kinds of things complained about in "RPG horror stories" came out of VtM. 

There were two cases I was aware of where a table got shut down over actual rape charges; one in the Seattle area, one in the Chicago area.

One of the tables at a game store I was playing in got the hammer brought down on them for blood play at the table.  They were using a hypodermic needle to draw blood and someone was drinking it.  I don't know all the particulars but I did see some of it happen.  Apparently this was all part of their LARPing. 

Arrests were made at another table I was aware of and charges included providing alcohol to a minor, sexual assault, and illegal sexual conduct with a minor.  One of those guys was a regular in a Cyberpunk game I was in.

I have had at least nine different female players tell me stories about aggressive lesbian players in game and in character coming on to them sexually in descriptions that range from over the line creepy to straight up sexual assault.

Mind you, this was all stuff I heard or seen before I knew about the problems of the game developers.  This was also the list of things that bled out of the game and into RL, mostly from LARP or semi-LARP groups.  (It seemed to me that every table was at least a semi-LARP group in the Seattle area.  I had wrongly believed for a while that is was by nature a LARP game.)  Every single player I have ever had tell me war stories told me of in game events I never wanted to be a part of.

Holy shit! I knew it was bad and had heard some horror stories, but nothing this crazy. I remember how the game picked up many non-gamers who shouldn't have been involved, as they were really creepy. I've met creepy players over the year, but when vampire was a big thing they were crawling out from every rock under the sun.

Yeah.  I saw someone upthread talk about WoD getting him laid (which I assume was adult and consensual), but the only guys I heard of in the VtM scene around here who got laid ended up in prison for it.  One was a 19 year-old guy who used the game to have sex with a 13 year-old and a 14 year-old in his group.  I'm sure it was different elsewhere, but the majority of the girls around here that played were tweens and slightly older (up to about freshmen in high school, etc.) who were getting off on the "mature" content and the attention they were getting from boys way too old for them.  It always creeped me out (especially since I was waaaay older than all of them).  We tried the game out for a while in our home group (all male group who had gamed together since high school) and quickly lost interest.  The mechanics were crap; it was far more a game about the "mood" than the system.  I guess hormonally-infused LARPing teens might have found it interesting... but we sure didn't...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 05, 2024, 04:37:32 PM

Yeah.  I saw someone upthread talk about WoD getting him laid (which I assume was adult and consensual), but the only guys I heard of in the VtM scene around here who got laid ended up in prison for it.  One was a 19 year-old guy who used the game to have sex with a 13 year-old and a 14 year-old in his group.  I'm sure it was different elsewhere, but the majority of the girls around here that played were tweens and slightly older (up to about freshmen in high school, etc.) who were getting off on the "mature" content and the attention they were getting from boys way too old for them.  It always creeped me out (especially since I was waaaay older than all of them).  We tried the game out for a while in our home group (all male group who had gamed together since high school) and quickly lost interest.  The mechanics were crap; it was far more a game about the "mood" than the system.  I guess hormonally-infused LARPing teens might have found it interesting... but we sure didn't...

Dungeons and Dragons was Chick Repellant in the 90s and the 00s.
World of Darkness was the 2nd largest brand in the entire world in that time. Girls didn't play D&D, they played Vampire, and they went to LARPs because it allowed them to dress up.
I stayed away from Dungeons and Dragons in that time period because I wanted to meet girls, and I did.. lots of them, mostly through the LARP scene, because again... Girls are more attracted to the game that lets them dress up and play pretend than sitting around a table and rolling dice.

Yes we know there were girls that played D&D, but World of Darkness was the Punk Rock hotness where D&D at the time was the lamestream.

A lot has changed since then, but trying to put on some revisionist history or saying 'oh they're all sex pests' isn't going to change the fact the WoD players got laid, consensually far more often than the D&D players.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 05, 2024, 05:23:48 PM
If that's why you play what you play, you're probably in the wrong hobby.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 05, 2024, 05:49:08 PM
If that's why you play what you play, you're probably in the wrong hobby.

See, here's the thing. I thought D&D was lame back then too (I don't anymore.) As a Teenager who wanted to play tabletop roleplaying games... the game that took place in the real world, had an inborn anti-authoritarian rebellious vibe, was about playing cool monsters AND let me hang out with Goth Girls?

It wasn't a contest.

Now, I'm 42, Married with a Child and I love D&D (Specifically The Pathfinder version)... But a bunch of nerds looking back and trying to trash WoD in the past because it sucks now is retarded. WoD *WAS* Cooler than D&D. It was Hipper, it was edgier, it was what the cool dorks did. It was make belief and it was anti-authoritarian and it had a much better chance of getting you laid than D&D did.

Now, it's a shell of it's former self, it's mainstream it IS the Establishment and it's pure cringe.

Throwing Shade at WoD teenagers and young adults because we got laid more and were more socially adept than D&D Teenagers and young adults in the 90s and 00s is just jealousy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 05, 2024, 06:33:29 PM
If that's why you play what you play, you're probably in the wrong hobby.

See, here's the thing. I thought D&D was lame back then too (I don't anymore.) As a Teenager who wanted to play tabletop roleplaying games... the game that took place in the real world, had an inborn anti-authoritarian rebellious vibe, was about playing cool monsters AND let me hang out with Goth Girls?

It wasn't a contest.

Now, I'm 42, Married with a Child and I love D&D (Specifically The Pathfinder version)... But a bunch of nerds looking back and trying to trash WoD in the past because it sucks now is retarded. WoD *WAS* Cooler than D&D. It was Hipper, it was edgier, it was what the cool dorks did. It was make belief and it was anti-authoritarian and it had a much better chance of getting you laid than D&D did.

Now, it's a shell of it's former self, it's mainstream it IS the Establishment and it's pure cringe.

Throwing Shade at WoD teenagers and young adults because we got laid more and were more socially adept than D&D Teenagers and young adults in the 90s and 00s is just jealousy.

Dude. Getting laid with a bunch of cringey goths isn't something to be jealous of. The only excuse for bad taste is that most everyone was dumb as a teen/young adult, and did stupid shit in their frantic pursit of sex for sex's sake.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BadApple on January 05, 2024, 06:42:37 PM
Yeah.  I saw someone upthread talk about WoD getting him laid (which I assume was adult and consensual), but the only guys I heard of in the VtM scene around here who got laid ended up in prison for it.  One was a 19 year-old guy who used the game to have sex with a 13 year-old and a 14 year-old in his group.  I'm sure it was different elsewhere, but the majority of the girls around here that played were tweens and slightly older (up to about freshmen in high school, etc.) who were getting off on the "mature" content and the attention they were getting from boys way too old for them.  It always creeped me out (especially since I was waaaay older than all of them).  We tried the game out for a while in our home group (all male group who had gamed together since high school) and quickly lost interest.  The mechanics were crap; it was far more a game about the "mood" than the system.  I guess hormonally-infused LARPing teens might have found it interesting... but we sure didn't...

I'm sure that 99.99% of sex in and around WOD was consensual.  The problem was it was a sex positive game, often mixed with LARP and prop play involving alocohol and blood, and had minors involved.  Bad things were going to happen from time to time and it a group that failed to self regulate.

By it's sheer size at the time, there was bound to be issues.  It was huge.  WOD events could rival medium conventions in the Seattle area by renting out entire hotels for the weekend.  It was cool.  It was what the in crowd was doing.  But it was also creepy, even without the incidents I mentioned before.  It was a very amoral and nihilistic game that was full of woke bullshit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 05, 2024, 06:51:24 PM
Yeah.  I saw someone upthread talk about WoD getting him laid (which I assume was adult and consensual), but the only guys I heard of in the VtM scene around here who got laid ended up in prison for it.  One was a 19 year-old guy who used the game to have sex with a 13 year-old and a 14 year-old in his group.  I'm sure it was different elsewhere, but the majority of the girls around here that played were tweens and slightly older (up to about freshmen in high school, etc.) who were getting off on the "mature" content and the attention they were getting from boys way too old for them.  It always creeped me out (especially since I was waaaay older than all of them).  We tried the game out for a while in our home group (all male group who had gamed together since high school) and quickly lost interest.  The mechanics were crap; it was far more a game about the "mood" than the system.  I guess hormonally-infused LARPing teens might have found it interesting... but we sure didn't...

I'm sure that 99.99% of sex in and around WOD was consensual.  The problem was it was a sex positive game, often mixed with LARP and prop play involving alocohol and blood, and had minors involved.  Bad things were going to happen from time to time and it a group that failed to self regulate.

By it's sheer size at the time, there was bound to be issues.  It was huge.  WOD events could rival medium conventions in the Seattle area by renting out entire hotels for the weekend.  It was cool.  It was what the in crowd was doing.  But it was also creepy, even without the incidents I mentioned before.  It was a very amoral and nihilistic game that was full of woke bullshit.

No doubt. I'm no longer young and no longer think Goth Girls are great and Communism is awesome. Goth Girls are Cringe and Communism is evil... But kids wanna rebel against the establishment. It's just ironic that WoD Ideals are Now the establishment. I also had a conversation the other day about how Goth is basically dead. It's no longer a subversive fashion style that marks you as an outsider against the norm... It's mainstream... It died a few years ago with a stake right through it's heart.

These days anti-establishment rebellion is Marriage, Families, and Small Business.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on January 05, 2024, 07:03:47 PM
These days anti-establishment rebellion is Marriage, Families, and Small Business.

...You know, you may have just put your finger on the issue there. With the exception of WotC and Paizo, all the RPG studios out there are small businesses by employee count, with most ranging between 2-3 staff and 10. I think Chaosium has about 50 employees, which means a studio running a half dozen well known and well selling RPG systems still qualifies as a small business.

It's probably true that the majority motivation is and always has been Marxist arsonist activism on the part of individual employees, but when you look at the RPG market through the lens of the many small businesses involved, you can see that the larger corporations involved (Hasbro) might actively push Wokism for purely selfish business reasons; putting a political loyalty test which runs against small business ideals will drive small businesses out of the market, so from a management perspective, being Woke is also being anti-competitive.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 05, 2024, 07:13:29 PM
Greetings!

The whole angsty-teenager, rah-rah rebellion, and anti-authority schtick of Vampire never appealed to me. At the time WOD began and burst onto the scene in the hobby, I was jumping out of helicopters and serving my country in the Marine Corps. The Marine culture is entirely at odds with the WOD crowd. Authority, discipline, unity, order, and loyalty are the watchwords that we lived by.

And when I wasn't jumping out of helicopters, or wading through sea water, well...I was getting laid every night of the week. Blood-sucking, nihilistic Goth girls that are obsessed with drugs, death, and cemeteries...didn't really have any appeal, either. ;D

Thinking of the women--they were of every colour and nationality, all happy, ripe, and eager to grab life with both hands. ;D

Somehow, between those two primary points of focus--on the weekends, I often ran awesome D&D games with groups of fellow Marines. Normal, medieval, heroic D&D games. Of course, chests full of beer and liquor were available, smokes, and fine cigars, too.

It is interesting how entirely different cultures existed. I had nothing in common with the culture going on in Seattle.

Now, decades later, strangely enough, I still have absolutely nothing in common with the Seattle culture. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BadApple on January 05, 2024, 07:35:10 PM
Yeah.  I saw someone upthread talk about WoD getting him laid (which I assume was adult and consensual), but the only guys I heard of in the VtM scene around here who got laid ended up in prison for it.  One was a 19 year-old guy who used the game to have sex with a 13 year-old and a 14 year-old in his group.  I'm sure it was different elsewhere, but the majority of the girls around here that played were tweens and slightly older (up to about freshmen in high school, etc.) who were getting off on the "mature" content and the attention they were getting from boys way too old for them.  It always creeped me out (especially since I was waaaay older than all of them).  We tried the game out for a while in our home group (all male group who had gamed together since high school) and quickly lost interest.  The mechanics were crap; it was far more a game about the "mood" than the system.  I guess hormonally-infused LARPing teens might have found it interesting... but we sure didn't...

I'm sure that 99.99% of sex in and around WOD was consensual.  The problem was it was a sex positive game, often mixed with LARP and prop play involving alocohol and blood, and had minors involved.  Bad things were going to happen from time to time and it a group that failed to self regulate.

By it's sheer size at the time, there was bound to be issues.  It was huge.  WOD events could rival medium conventions in the Seattle area by renting out entire hotels for the weekend.  It was cool.  It was what the in crowd was doing.  But it was also creepy, even without the incidents I mentioned before.  It was a very amoral and nihilistic game that was full of woke bullshit.

No doubt. I'm no longer young and no longer think Goth Girls are great and Communism is awesome. Goth Girls are Cringe and Communism is evil... But kids wanna rebel against the establishment. It's just ironic that WoD Ideals are Now the establishment. I also had a conversation the other day about how Goth is basically dead. It's no longer a subversive fashion style that marks you as an outsider against the norm... It's mainstream... It died a few years ago with a stake right through it's heart.

These days anti-establishment rebellion is Marriage, Families, and Small Business.

I thought is was a horrible game when I first read the rules (1992?) and thought that goth chicks were gross.  I will always denigrate the game and the more I find out about it the more I feel that way.  OTOH, I want to trash it accurately.  I never want to undermine my own position with lies.  Fortunately for me, a good solid chunk of my beef with the game is in black and white between the pages of the books themselves.

What a game is and what a person does that also happens to play said game are two different things.  I just find it curious that there is so much corollary between the WOD game and bad behavior.  I believe that a game that centers around nihilistic behavior would also attract nihilistic people as part of it's player base
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on January 05, 2024, 08:35:06 PM

Yeah.  I saw someone upthread talk about WoD getting him laid (which I assume was adult and consensual), but the only guys I heard of in the VtM scene around here who got laid ended up in prison for it.  One was a 19 year-old guy who used the game to have sex with a 13 year-old and a 14 year-old in his group.  I'm sure it was different elsewhere, but the majority of the girls around here that played were tweens and slightly older (up to about freshmen in high school, etc.) who were getting off on the "mature" content and the attention they were getting from boys way too old for them.  It always creeped me out (especially since I was waaaay older than all of them).  We tried the game out for a while in our home group (all male group who had gamed together since high school) and quickly lost interest.  The mechanics were crap; it was far more a game about the "mood" than the system.  I guess hormonally-infused LARPing teens might have found it interesting... but we sure didn't...

Dungeons and Dragons was Chick Repellant in the 90s and the 00s.
World of Darkness was the 2nd largest brand in the entire world in that time. Girls didn't play D&D, they played Vampire, and they went to LARPs because it allowed them to dress up.
I stayed away from Dungeons and Dragons in that time period because I wanted to meet girls, and I did.. lots of them, mostly through the LARP scene, because again... Girls are more attracted to the game that lets them dress up and play pretend than sitting around a table and rolling dice.

Yes we know there were girls that played D&D, but World of Darkness was the Punk Rock hotness where D&D at the time was the lamestream.

A lot has changed since then, but trying to put on some revisionist history or saying 'oh they're all sex pests' isn't going to change the fact the WoD players got laid, consensually far more often than the D&D players.

Some of us managed to both play D&D and get laid, so I don't know what your issue is.  Other than the obvious, never shit where you eat (or never screw who you game with... it never ends well).  And, at least on the East Coast, VtM was far more known for underage sex pests than great adult relationships...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 05, 2024, 09:15:00 PM
In any case, WoD is likely to never capture the cultural Zeitgeist and appeal that it once had...

And by the way Shark, I knew more than a few former Marines, ones I'm still friends with, who loved Vampire The Masquerade and specifically the LARP scene. These dudes were/are also guys who still practice Paganism in their 40s and 50s though.

It's interesting because Pundit's latest video kind of talks about this... Fads in gaming. He specifically brought up Vampire and it's massive popularity in the 90s and how the folks who played it, didn't want anything to do with D&D. Pundit himself even states, 2nd edition D&D was the watered down, bawdlerized, safe and sanitized version of D&D. It was the version that removed the term "Demons and Devils" and kowtowed to the Christian Right.

Cause that's who the bad guys of the 90s and 00s were. It was the Christian Right, it was the Conservatives. The right was the anti-fun police. They didn't want you listening to Rap Music, they didn't want you listening to Heavy Metal. They thought Videogames were evil and roleplaying games invited the Devil.

Where D&D bent the knee and did everything in it's power to be non-threatening, World of Darkness flipped the middle finger and gave an outlet of rebellion against the stifling cultural mainstream.

It's just, once the Christian Right was defeated...once the worst elements of the former Conservatives were outsted from the public discourse.... WoD really didn't have anywhere to go. I still love the idea of a Gothic setting with secret monsters pulling the strings behind the scenes... but these days it's not the old Republican establishment that's stifling free speech and trying to be a wet blanket anymore.

Now it's Corporate media brainwashing children in pursuit of selling you products. Now it's Klaus Shwaub saying "Eat the Bugs for the betterment of the world." Now it's rich elitest who want to ruin our quality of life but keep their own, all for the sake of "The planet." It's Greta Thunberg saying "How Dare you." And it's Bill Clinton going to Epstein's island almost 30 times and receiving zero consequences for it. It's Defund the Police and Queers for Palestine referring to Hamas as "Freedom Fighters".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: zircher on January 05, 2024, 09:15:13 PM
Interesting perspectives.  Having been in assorted high school, university, and military RPG cultures.  I found the best and most enjoyable people were high school friends and military personnel.  The other group was always too high maintenance and unfocused.  I never mixed gaming and tail chasing even when WoD was on the table. 

Tangent: Goth chicks can be fun, but I never took one home to meet my mom.  :-)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 05, 2024, 09:21:07 PM

Yeah.  I saw someone upthread talk about WoD getting him laid (which I assume was adult and consensual), but the only guys I heard of in the VtM scene around here who got laid ended up in prison for it.  One was a 19 year-old guy who used the game to have sex with a 13 year-old and a 14 year-old in his group.  I'm sure it was different elsewhere, but the majority of the girls around here that played were tweens and slightly older (up to about freshmen in high school, etc.) who were getting off on the "mature" content and the attention they were getting from boys way too old for them.  It always creeped me out (especially since I was waaaay older than all of them).  We tried the game out for a while in our home group (all male group who had gamed together since high school) and quickly lost interest.  The mechanics were crap; it was far more a game about the "mood" than the system.  I guess hormonally-infused LARPing teens might have found it interesting... but we sure didn't...

Dungeons and Dragons was Chick Repellant in the 90s and the 00s.
World of Darkness was the 2nd largest brand in the entire world in that time. Girls didn't play D&D, they played Vampire, and they went to LARPs because it allowed them to dress up.
I stayed away from Dungeons and Dragons in that time period because I wanted to meet girls, and I did.. lots of them, mostly through the LARP scene, because again... Girls are more attracted to the game that lets them dress up and play pretend than sitting around a table and rolling dice.

Yes we know there were girls that played D&D, but World of Darkness was the Punk Rock hotness where D&D at the time was the lamestream.

A lot has changed since then, but trying to put on some revisionist history or saying 'oh they're all sex pests' isn't going to change the fact the WoD players got laid, consensually far more often than the D&D players.

Some of us managed to both play D&D and get laid, so I don't know what your issue is.  Other than the obvious, never shit where you eat (or never screw who you game with... it never ends well).  And, at least on the East Coast, VtM was far more known for underage sex pests than great adult relationships...

Greetings!

*Laughing* "Some of us managed to both play D&D and get laid..." Oh, man. Isn't that the truth, Eirikrautha? The whole "D&D was chick repellent" meme seems very isolated. Or isolating. *shrugs* We'd have girls eagerly spending hours deep into the night just hanging out at the local Denny's after being at the club all night. Getting them to play D&D wasn't hard. They certainly were not repelled by us being into D&D. Hell, they would sit there and watch paint dry if we told them that is what we were doing. *Laughing* I say that not to demonstrate that the girls were dumb--far from it. They were just into whatever we were into. Playing D&D, dancing at the club, hanging out at the beach, having hotel parties, going to the desert to shoot guns. That is all besides the normal stuff of going to restaurants, going to the mall, seeing movies, having barbecues, beach parties, and what have you. For myself, I have always appreciated normal women, that are socially well-adjusted, happy, and joyful about life.

Goth chicks always seemed very weird, depressed, and morbid. Into rebellion and being anti-social rebels and outcasts. I can imagine all of my buddies in the barracks telling me "WTF?" if I brought some weird Goth chick into our group. It wouldn't have gone well, I'm certain. That's just the normal Marines. The top NCO's and Officers would have gone bananas at me. *Laughing* "What the fuck are you hanging out with some fucking weird Communist? Or some kind of Satanist? You better get that squared away, Marine!" I can just imagine the shitstorm from them.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 05, 2024, 09:24:49 PM
In any case, WoD is likely to never capture the cultural Zeitgeist and appeal that it once had...

And by the way Shark, I knew more than a few former Marines, ones I'm still friends with, who loved Vampire The Masquerade and specifically the LARP scene. These dudes were/are also guys who still practice Paganism in their 40s and 50s though.

It's interesting because Pundit's latest video kind of talks about this... Fads in gaming. He specifically brought up Vampire and it's massive popularity in the 90s and how the folks who played it, didn't want anything to do with D&D. Pundit himself even states, 2nd edition D&D was the watered down, bawdlerized, safe and sanitized version of D&D. It was the version that removed the term "Demons and Devils" and kowtowed to the Christian Right.

Cause that's who the bad guys of the 90s and 00s were. It was the Christian Right, it was the Conservatives. The right was the anti-fun police. They didn't want you listening to Rap Music, they didn't want you listening to Heavy Metal. They thought Videogames were evil and roleplaying games invited the Devil.

Where D&D bent the knee and did everything in it's power to be non-threatening, World of Darkness flipped the middle finger and gave an outlet of rebellion against the stifling cultural mainstream.

It's just, once the Christian Right was defeated...once the worst elements of the former Conservatives were outsted from the public discourse.... WoD really didn't have anywhere to go. I still love the idea of a Gothic setting with secret monsters pulling the strings behind the scenes... but these days it's not the old Republican establishment that's stifling free speech and trying to be a wet blanket anymore.

Now it's Corporate media brainwashing children in pursuit of selling you products. Now it's Klaus Shwaub saying "Eat the Bugs for the betterment of the world." Now it's rich elitest who want to ruin our quality of life but keep their own, all for the sake of "The planet." It's Greta Thunberg saying "How Dare you." And it's Bill Clinton going to Epstein's island almost 30 times and receiving zero consequences for it. It's Defund the Police and Queers for Palestine referring to Hamas as "Freedom Fighters".

Greetings!

"HOW DARE YOU!"

OMG. That makes me fucking laugh every time! What a pathetic broad she is.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 05, 2024, 09:27:15 PM
Interesting perspectives.  Having been in assorted high school, university, and military RPG cultures.  I found the best and most enjoyable people were high school friends and military personnel.  The other group was always too high maintenance and unfocused.  I never mixed gaming and tail chasing even when WoD was on the table. 

Tangent: Goth chicks can be fun, but I never took one home to meet my mom.  :-)

Greetings!

"Goth chicks can be fun, but I never took one home to meet my mom."

*Roaring* ;D Yeah, Zircher! My mother would have skinned me alive. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yosemitemike on January 05, 2024, 09:30:18 PM
...You know, you may have just put your finger on the issue there. With the exception of WotC and Paizo, all the RPG studios out there are small businesses by employee count, with most ranging between 2-3 staff and 10. I think Chaosium has about 50 employees, which means a studio running a half dozen well known and well selling RPG systems still qualifies as a small business.

It's probably true that the majority motivation is and always has been Marxist arsonist activism on the part of individual employees, but when you look at the RPG market through the lens of the many small businesses involved, you can see that the larger corporations involved (Hasbro) might actively push Wokism for purely selfish business reasons; putting a political loyalty test which runs against small business ideals will drive small businesses out of the market, so from a management perspective, being Woke is also being anti-competitive.

I remember the president of Atlas Games saying that they had 5 actual employees.  I remember someone (Justin Achilli?) saying that White Wolf only had around 50 employees at its height.  I don't remember who it was exactly but it was someone who was in a position to know.  Most of the work is done by freelancers.  It's the same in comics.  When that whole union thing was going on at Image, they said how many people were going to be in the union.  It was around a dozen people. 

I don't think these people are as clever as all that.  When your headquarters is in the Seattle area, that's who you get. 
(https://i.imgur.com/cHlM2fb.jpg)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 05, 2024, 09:33:13 PM
I went from chasing Goth girls and dealing with their crazy to getting married to a conservative IDF Jewish girl...

Kind of a complete 180... Learned my lesson, just took me awhile.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 05, 2024, 09:48:20 PM
I went from chasing Goth girls and dealing with their crazy to getting married to a conservative IDF Jewish girl...

Kind of a complete 180... Learned my lesson, just took me awhile.

Greetings!

*Laughing* That's so poetic, Orphan! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on January 05, 2024, 10:06:19 PM
Cause that's who the bad guys of the 90s and 00s were. It was the Christian Right, it was the Conservatives. The right was the anti-fun police. They didn't want you listening to Rap Music, they didn't want you listening to Heavy Metal. They thought Videogames were evil and roleplaying games invited the Devil.

Yeah, led by that arch-conservative ... Tipper Gore.  I recognize that dualistic world views are endemic in adolescents... but most of us grow out of that stuff by our adulthood.  And, looking back, we can recognize that our adolescent perceptions of what was going on were... flawed.  Well, most of us can...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 05, 2024, 10:59:18 PM
Greetings!

The whole angsty-teenager, rah-rah rebellion, and anti-authority schtick of Vampire never appealed to me. At the time WOD began and burst onto the scene in the hobby, I was jumping out of helicopters and serving my country in the Marine Corps. The Marine culture is entirely at odds with the WOD crowd. Authority, discipline, unity, order, and loyalty are the watchwords that we lived by.

Used as game pieces by ancient, soulless creatures? Check.
Constantly wore camouflage clothing? Check.
Predilection for killing people at night? Check.

Replace drinking blood with eating crayons, and you guys were living a VtM LARP  ;D
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 05, 2024, 11:49:55 PM
Greetings!

The whole angsty-teenager, rah-rah rebellion, and anti-authority schtick of Vampire never appealed to me. At the time WOD began and burst onto the scene in the hobby, I was jumping out of helicopters and serving my country in the Marine Corps. The Marine culture is entirely at odds with the WOD crowd. Authority, discipline, unity, order, and loyalty are the watchwords that we lived by.

Used as game pieces by ancient, soulless creatures? Check.
Constantly wore camouflage clothing? Check.
Predilection for killing people at night? Check.

Replace drinking blood with eating crayons, and you guys were living a VtM LARP  ;D

Greetings!

*Laughing*! Hah! Nice, Grognard GM! That was very clever. It had me choking on my coffee from laughing!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Darrin Kelley on January 05, 2024, 11:52:02 PM
My own experience with the Vampire LARP community left a scar. I didn't like the people drawn to it. Because they seemed to revel in the wickedness and depravity. Both in character and out. And quite frankly, I couldn't bear to be around people like that. It proved to be not for me.

So I left it behind. Focused on my actual interests in the RPG community. And generally look forward to a more positive view of the world. Nihilism isn't something I can stand or accept.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BadApple on January 06, 2024, 12:36:50 AM
My own experience with the Vampire LARP community left a scar. I didn't like the people drawn to it. Because they seemed to revel in the wickedness and depravity. Both in character and out. And quite frankly, I couldn't bear to be around people like that. It proved to be not for me.

So I left it behind. Focused on my actual interests in the RPG community. And generally look forward to a more positive view of the world. Nihilism isn't something I can stand or accept.

This is an extremely common thing with former VtM players, in my experience.  Either people get disgusted with the game or they gleefully recount doing rather repugnant things.  I laid out the more extreme things I was aware of but I never knew a table that had a "normal" gaming experience.  If there was ever a game where X-Cards and Consent in Gaming contracts were needed...

I have sympathy for you.  I wouldn't wish VtM on anyone.

The core book laid out a form of play that centered around struggling with the bestial drive to feed and the need to maintain humanity.  The experience was all about "enjoying" the twisted nature of it all.  I quickly figured out that the only decent thing a vampire could do according the the game is commit suicide to protect others and get the suffering over with.

I'm sure, like with Shadowrun, a GM or two saw something in the system and house ruled it to the point of being something worth playing.  The core mechanics are ok, better than some of the drivel I've looked at recently reviewing games.   
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 06, 2024, 11:24:57 AM
If I ever do play Vampire, my character will be based on Disco Stu from The Simpsons.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 06, 2024, 01:21:00 PM
If I ever do play Vampire, my character will be based on Disco Stu from The Simpsons.

"Disco Stu is gonna feed on YOU!" (Dances towards you menacingly)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on January 06, 2024, 06:54:20 PM
I played and enjoyed WoD stuff back in the 90s without any issues with my usual gaming group.  The game works fine as long as you don't have any goths or perverts around to latch onto it and make it cringey.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 06, 2024, 06:54:34 PM
My own experience with the Vampire LARP community left a scar. I didn't like the people drawn to it. Because they seemed to revel in the wickedness and depravity. Both in character and out. And quite frankly, I couldn't bear to be around people like that. It proved to be not for me.

So I left it behind. Focused on my actual interests in the RPG community. And generally look forward to a more positive view of the world. Nihilism isn't something I can stand or accept.

Vampire LARP was full of the Kids who got picked on at school putting themselves into cliques so they could be the bullies who got to pick on others. I only did it for about two years before I got sick of the drama. I joined up bright eyed and busy tailed with the idea the point was for EVERYONE to have fun.

Some of these dorks were such losers, the game became more important than their actual lives. There were secret message lists and "In character Phone Calls" that would take place outside of the game.... The primary event that caused me to quit was when my ex-girlfriend (Someone I dated in High School and only met up again years later at the LARP) trumped up a charge against me for some kind of OOC violation the week before my coterie was prized to take over the city.

It was full of petty mean girls (and boys) who just wanted to propagate what happened to them in school on to others.

There were some really cool people (the former Marines I mentioned earlier) who also quit when the drama got too much that I'm still friends with today..

But it doesn't surprise me more than ten years on, when I look at where the mean girl Larpers are... they're all working dead end jobs, don't have kids, live with several roommates ect... while the rest of us moved on and had actual Lives.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 06, 2024, 07:23:42 PM
I played and enjoyed WoD stuff back in the 90s without any issues with my usual gaming group.  The game works fine as long as you don't have any goths or perverts around to latch onto it and make it cringey.

This. Our groups explored the vampiric condition, but only to the level of a good quality movie or novel. No dress up or general posery.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Darrin Kelley on January 06, 2024, 07:56:44 PM
Unfortunately the group I was with was built around the Sabbat. Which meant no token limits or morality at all. It was truly a shit-show.

I met more bad gamers in that than I ever did in tabletop. And that made me sick, It was just too much.

I went back to D&D after I sold off my WOD books. And then I went back to superhero games. Both of which made me a lot happier.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Chris24601 on January 06, 2024, 10:58:51 PM
All this VtM LARP stuff is why I always favored Mage the Ascension at a tabletop.

Until Revised came out there wasn't even the idea of impending "end of days" or "dying magic" ... just that there was a long road to hopeful victory.

Hell, by 1.5 years into my 20 year long Mage campaign, we'd already gone through the bottom of the Wheel and were officially on the upwards turn. Things were still dark and dangerous, but it was established that there was hope of making it through to the dawn and building something grand on the other side. Much more fun than nihilism anyway.

I only started enjoying VtM (tabletop, not LARP) once Dhampirs became an option and "Half-breed Vampire Hunter" (Unbondable, True Faith, Fist of God, and Spark of Life + Dhampir = Born Nemesis of the Damned) became my preferred occupation whenever I got roped into it (the V20 version's frankly ridiculous durability made for a very fun "takes a licking and keeps on ticking" style character). That also made it less nihilistic as there was the unshakable faith that one day they would achieve that bright sunshine day when all the innocent people live free of the parasites forever (unrealistic as it might been, the motive certainly wasn't nihilism).
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2024, 11:23:01 PM
Greetings!

WTF is wrong with all of these people so fascinated, and even obsessed, with darkness, blood, death, murder, torture, bondage and slavery, cemeteries, nihilism, drugs, and sex? These people are severely damaged, psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually. They need counseling, and Jesus. At the very least, they need to be put into a rubber room. These people are sad, pathetic, and sick. They are individuals that are fucked in the head and0 broken. Honestly, they should not be playing RPG's. They need to get themselves fucking fixed right and healed.

Ultimately, it is these dynamics and realities that repulsed me from ever getting into Vampire. White Wolf, as a company, always struck me as merely a company building an empire catering to and exploiting the aforementioned audience of customers. Feeding off of sad, twisted, depressed, and broken people.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: zircher on January 07, 2024, 12:06:45 AM
Well, there's always been a fascination with the macabre.  Heck, I grew up on the Addams Family and Eerie magazine as a kid.  I think the tipping point is when you go from entertainment to making it a lifestyle.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 07, 2024, 12:42:07 AM
All this VtM LARP stuff is why I always favored Mage the Ascension at a tabletop.

Until Revised came out there wasn't even the idea of impending "end of days" or "dying magic" ... just that there was a long road to hopeful victory.

Hell, by 1.5 years into my 20 year long Mage campaign, we'd already gone through the bottom of the Wheel and were officially on the upwards turn. Things were still dark and dangerous, but it was established that there was hope of making it through to the dawn and building something grand on the other side. Much more fun than nihilism anyway.

I only started enjoying VtM (tabletop, not LARP) once Dhampirs became an option and "Half-breed Vampire Hunter" (Unbondable, True Faith, Fist of God, and Spark of Life + Dhampir = Born Nemesis of the Damned) became my preferred occupation whenever I got roped into it (the V20 version's frankly ridiculous durability made for a very fun "takes a licking and keeps on ticking" style character). That also made it less nihilistic as there was the unshakable faith that one day they would achieve that bright sunshine day when all the innocent people live free of the parasites forever (unrealistic as it might been, the motive certainly wasn't nihilism).

This, this is not true at all. The end of the World was baked into Werewolf: The Apocalpyse from 1st edition.
The Technocracy were the ones who were the leads in the Ascension War from 1st edition... Revised Edition flipped things and said NO one had one the Ascension War.
The Changelings were afraid of the coming Long Winter.
The Sabbat was trying to kill the Antedeluvians from their inception.

World of Darkness was always a world on the brink. It's just the Revised editions ramped it up more.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 07, 2024, 12:46:09 AM
If I ever do play Vampire, my character will be based on Disco Stu from The Simpsons.

"Disco Stu is gonna feed on YOU!" (Dances towards you menacingly)

heh

Really though, the character would have become a vampire in the late seventies and never come out out the disco era.  He'd dress up and go out in sequin jump suits, he'd drink bloody marys and snort any white powder he could get his hands on hoping to find something that worked for vampires.  He'd worship John Travolta and try to imitate his moves and any time someone hit him in combat he'd say "Disco Stu should've disco ducked!"  If the GM killed him off for being stupid and annoying my next character would come from Sesame Street.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 07, 2024, 12:50:49 AM
Greetings!

WTF is wrong with all of these people so fascinated, and even obsessed, with darkness, blood, death, murder, torture, bondage and slavery, cemeteries, nihilism, drugs, and sex? These people are severely damaged, psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually. They need counseling, and Jesus. At the very least, they need to be put into a rubber room. These people are sad, pathetic, and sick. They are individuals that are fucked in the head and0 broken. Honestly, they should not be playing RPG's. They need to get themselves fucking fixed right and healed.

Ultimately, it is these dynamics and realities that repulsed me from ever getting into Vampire. White Wolf, as a company, always struck me as merely a company building an empire catering to and exploiting the aforementioned audience of customers. Feeding off of sad, twisted, depressed, and broken people.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Because Vampires and Werewolves are cool, Tim Burton movies are fun, Ghost stories and Halloween is awesome... Lots of us love the spooky, creepy, gothic aesthetic. Vampire was dripping with absolute style and mood... Werewolf was freaking awesome and Mage the Ascension is a work of art.

These games were popular and fun for a reason. They're sometimes more relatable as well.... A world where all the evil things happen because Supernatural creatures are the ones pulling the strings behind the scenes is a nice way to escape or handle the real things going on in the world. In the World of Darkness, Jeffery Epstein would have been a supernatural agent of The Wyrm, or a type of evil mage called a Nephandus and as players you could actually DO something about him and all his accomplices.

The most popular form of playing World of Darkness was "Superheroes with Fangs" that's how most people played the game. You throw some Politics in there to spice it up... But most people played their games as monsters killing and fighting even WORSE monsters.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer went for something like 7 Seasons, Supernatural went for 15.

There's a market and audience for this kind of stuff.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 07, 2024, 01:04:49 AM
Well, there's always been a fascination with the macabre.  Heck, I grew up on the Addams Family and Eerie magazine as a kid.  I think the tipping point is when you go from entertainment to making it a lifestyle.

Greetings!

Yes, definitely a line there between entertainment and a lifestyle.

A *Lifestyle*!!! *Laughing* OMG, so true!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 07, 2024, 01:07:05 AM
Greetings!

WTF is wrong with all of these people so fascinated, and even obsessed, with darkness, blood, death, murder, torture, bondage and slavery, cemeteries, nihilism, drugs, and sex? These people are severely damaged, psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually. They need counseling, and Jesus. At the very least, they need to be put into a rubber room. These people are sad, pathetic, and sick. They are individuals that are fucked in the head and0 broken. Honestly, they should not be playing RPG's. They need to get themselves fucking fixed right and healed.

Ultimately, it is these dynamics and realities that repulsed me from ever getting into Vampire. White Wolf, as a company, always struck me as merely a company building an empire catering to and exploiting the aforementioned audience of customers. Feeding off of sad, twisted, depressed, and broken people.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Because Vampires and Werewolves are cool, Tim Burton movies are fun, Ghost stories and Halloween is awesome... Lots of us love the spooky, creepy, gothic aesthetic. Vampire was dripping with absolute style and mood... Werewolf was freaking awesome and Mage the Ascension is a work of art.

These games were popular and fun for a reason. They're sometimes more relatable as well.... A world where all the evil things happen because Supernatural creatures are the ones pulling the strings behind the scenes is a nice way to escape or handle the real things going on in the world. In the World of Darkness, Jeffery Epstein would have been a supernatural agent of The Wyrm, or a type of evil mage called a Nephandus and as players you could actually DO something about him and all his accomplices.

The most popular form of playing World of Darkness was "Superheroes with Fangs" that's how most people played the game. You throw some Politics in there to spice it up... But most people played their games as monsters killing and fighting even WORSE monsters.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer went for something like 7 Seasons, Supernatural went for 15.

There's a market and audience for this kind of stuff.

Greetings!

"Superheroes with fangs!"--Interesting. I can see that.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yosemitemike on January 07, 2024, 08:07:47 AM
Superheroes with fangs is what games like Vampire and Werewolf become when you just run them as written at the table.  In order to get personal horror out of Vampire, you have to really want to make it happen.  You have to force it hard.  If you just run it as is, it's superheroes with fangs.  Werewolf is that only even more so. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BadApple on January 07, 2024, 09:03:34 AM
Superheroes with fangs is what games like Vampire and Werewolf become when you just run them as written at the table.  In order to get personal horror out of Vampire, you have to really want to make it happen.  You have to force it hard.  If you just run it as is, it's superheroes with fangs.  Werewolf is that only even more so.

The war stories I've heard are more like The Young and the Restless with fangs. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yosemitemike on January 07, 2024, 09:56:50 AM
Superheroes with fangs is what games like Vampire and Werewolf become when you just run them as written at the table.  In order to get personal horror out of Vampire, you have to really want to make it happen.  You have to force it hard.  If you just run it as is, it's superheroes with fangs.  Werewolf is that only even more so.

The war stories I've heard are more like The Young and the Restless with fangs.

I can see that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Eirikrautha on January 07, 2024, 10:33:15 AM
Superheroes with fangs is what games like Vampire and Werewolf become when you just run them as written at the table.  In order to get personal horror out of Vampire, you have to really want to make it happen.  You have to force it hard.  If you just run it as is, it's superheroes with fangs.  Werewolf is that only even more so.

The war stories I've heard are more like The Young and the Restless with fangs.

Yes, because the VtM community didn't police itself; they leaned into the pervy nature of it all.  VtM in the nineties is the poster child for the need to gatekeep your roleplaying games.  When my home table played VtM briefly, it was exactly as yosemitemike described: a superheroes with fangs game which, sadly, had mediocre gameplay and mechanics.  But, once sex-pests, goths, LARPers and "edgy" tweens got their hands on it, you get the horror stories recounted above.  The same thing has happened with D&D 5e... too open just means people start to change what the game actually is (and usually they then attempt to eject those of us who were there first in an attempt to change the game).  Of course, it seems to me that the WoD creators were themselves sex-pests, goths, nihilists, et al., and so they got the community they were aiming for.  Not sure it was good for RPGs in the long term...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BadApple on January 07, 2024, 10:44:36 AM
Superheroes with fangs is what games like Vampire and Werewolf become when you just run them as written at the table.  In order to get personal horror out of Vampire, you have to really want to make it happen.  You have to force it hard.  If you just run it as is, it's superheroes with fangs.  Werewolf is that only even more so.

The war stories I've heard are more like The Young and the Restless with fangs.

Yes, because the VtM community didn't police itself; they leaned into the pervy nature of it all.  VtM in the nineties is the poster child for the need to gatekeep your roleplaying games.  When my home table played VtM briefly, it was exactly as yosemitemike described: a superheroes with fangs game which, sadly, had mediocre gameplay and mechanics.  But, once sex-pests, goths, LARPers and "edgy" tweens got their hands on it, you get the horror stories recounted above.  The same thing has happened with D&D 5e... too open just means people start to change what the game actually is (and usually they then attempt to eject those of us who were there first in an attempt to change the game).  Of course, it seems to me that the WoD creators were themselves sex-pests, goths, nihilists, et al., and so they got the community they were aiming for.  Not sure it was good for RPGs in the long term...

And that comes full circle to earlier in this conversation started where I said:

I remember when the WOD games got big in the 90s.  Then, there was little that could be considered "woke" at the time in the gaming community but those books were dripping with all the talking points back then; white men bad, men bad, capitalism bad, "save the turtles," colonialism bad, etc.  Meanwhile, the most degenerate RP I have ever seen or heard of comes from WOD session.  Gaming stores, that had been girl kryptonite for my entire life until then, were now flooded with goths bitching about how they had to let us in their spaces.  If you want to know why wokeism is so pervasive in gaming, WOD was that crowd's in.

But I'm not bitter...
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: zircher on January 07, 2024, 12:37:09 PM
...  If you just run it as is, it's superheroes with fangs.  Werewolf is that only even more so.
Loved the Werewolf game I was in just for that.  We were big gods damned heroes (or vigilantes and terrorists depending on who you talked to.)  So, we managed to avoid the freak show and had a blast while it lasted.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on January 07, 2024, 04:32:06 PM
Vampire's up to the players: it's not supposed to be a comfortable existence since you have to go around drinking the local animals at best, or assaulting and/or killing humans, and doing so on essentially a daily basis.  The pleasures of the living are basically denied to you, replaced by an addiction to blood, plus you're extremely flammable and tend to explode in sunlight.  That also makes the heckin' valid queer vampires of recent editions really strange; as written WoD vampires consider sex to be a pale shadow of chugging blood and aren't remotely interested in it.  And the humanity scale of older Vampire was set up in a way to sort of emphasize to players that there was a need to constantly struggle against one's new nature if they didn't want to eventually devolve into an amoral killer.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 07, 2024, 08:35:18 PM
Looking back at the multiple, multiple campaigns I ran they went like this..

My favorite Werewolf Campaign?
Basically Teen Wolf (Before it was a mediocre MTV series) The players were all Highschool students as a Werewolf Pack that were protecting their school and the surrounding environs... (TL:DRFor those Not in the know, Werewolves fight the supernatural embodiment of corruption and evil known as 'The Wyrm' which attacks the world through many avenues). Things included The High School Football team getting wyrm tainted drugs turning them into Fomori (Mutated Monsters) and bullying the school. A secret 'gifted' program turning psychic kids into weapons for Pentex (Big evil Corporation) Dealing with Vampire Gangs trying to infiltrate the School to get followers and make a blood cult.

My favorite Mage Campaign?
A Road Trip that involved fighting Red Neck Backwoods Vampire families, Putting down the living Ghost of a College campus creating a horde of zombies, and fighting a group of Nephandus (Evil mages) in the ruins of Hurricane Katrina leading to an alternate reality incursion where thonic beings had taken over the world and preventing it from spreading to the rest of the world.

Vampire I had two Campaigns I particularly remember I loved running.
Anarch Campaign set in L.A. Where the coterie was fighting off and out manuvering eastern Kueijin Vampires trying to Invade, Camarilla Overtures and of course the Sabbat. I had a Sabbat Blood Brother Pack (Weird Vampires that all look the same) that were all modeled off of Tom Cruise. Each of them appearing as one of his iconic movie roles.
Sabbat Campaign that started in Detroit where the PC's ended up pissing off the Technocracy with too many Masquerade breaches, causing the entire cities Vampire population to be wiped out, and for them to end up on the run... Trying to not get eliminated as they fled to Mexico City, the Sabbat's Capital. Along the way they took refuge in an old Prison only to wake up and find a Rave was going on, and the disturbed spirits of the dead began attacking the Ravers. We called it a "Reverse Horror Movie" as they were the vampires attacking the ravers while also avoiding the Zombies and Ghosts.

There's lots of others I've ran but those are some of my favorites. Yeah we did the personal horror elements here and there as well, but the only flatly "Evil" campaign I ran was with the Sabbat...And that's really for Players who really *KNOW* the World of Darkness as a setting and want to kick in some of the lesser known corners of it. Outside of that, Mage is a flat out Heroic Game, as is Werewolf, Vampire is typically about being less of a monster than the other monsters around you.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Darrin Kelley on January 10, 2024, 02:20:12 PM
I always had a problem with underaged children trying to play those games. Even at the tabletop.

This set of games were designed for mature audiences. Even the LARP rulebooks, it stated the minimum age allowed to play was 18.

Well in practice, that rule wasn't obeyed. And underage kids were all over them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on January 10, 2024, 06:05:42 PM
I was a teenager in the 90s when those books first came out and was playing them with my gaming group in late high school/early college and never came to woe.  Of course, we were playing among ourselves in that scenario, not LARPing with some creepers in their 30s, which I think is significant.  There were definitely some WoD people back in the day who should've been on some kind of watchlist.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 09:01:35 AM
I always had a problem with underaged children trying to play those games. Even at the tabletop.

This set of games were designed for mature audiences. Even the LARP rulebooks, it stated the minimum age allowed to play was 18.

Well in practice, that rule wasn't obeyed. And underage kids were all over them.

Werewolf was my first game as a GM at age 13, for other 13 year olds. I probably ran more sessions in those next few years than any one setting since, because my players loved my game.

We just ignored the perv stuff because it was cringe, and just enjoyed playing BAMFs with edgy 90s attitudes, that kicked ass. Teen boys love lone wolf anti-heroes, put away your pearls.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on January 11, 2024, 11:31:57 AM
I always had a problem with underaged children trying to play those games. Even at the tabletop.

This set of games were designed for mature audiences. Even the LARP rulebooks, it stated the minimum age allowed to play was 18.

Well in practice, that rule wasn't obeyed. And underage kids were all over them.

Werewolf was my first game as a GM at age 13, for other 13 year olds. I probably ran more sessions in those next few years than any one setting since, because my players loved my game.

We just ignored the perv stuff because it was cringe, and just enjoyed playing BAMFs with edgy 90s attitudes, that kicked ass. Teen boys love lone wolf anti-heroes, put away your pearls.

Today's random thought: Maybe this is one additional reason why many roleplayers like Tolkien-derived materials; no perv stuff?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 12:06:07 PM
I always had a problem with underaged children trying to play those games. Even at the tabletop.

This set of games were designed for mature audiences. Even the LARP rulebooks, it stated the minimum age allowed to play was 18.

Well in practice, that rule wasn't obeyed. And underage kids were all over them.

Werewolf was my first game as a GM at age 13, for other 13 year olds. I probably ran more sessions in those next few years than any one setting since, because my players loved my game.

We just ignored the perv stuff because it was cringe, and just enjoyed playing BAMFs with edgy 90s attitudes, that kicked ass. Teen boys love lone wolf anti-heroes, put away your pearls.

Today's random thought: Maybe this is one additional reason why many roleplayers like Tolkien-derived materials; no perv stuff?

Sam blatantly wanted to slip into Frodo's magic ring.


Tolkien created an incredibly rich and detailed fantasy world. That world and its aesthetics were aped by practically all fantasy artists, writers, movie makers and game creators of the last 70 years. D&D, the first and still most popular rpg game lifts Tolkien elements wholesale.

It's the wellspring.


Personally, I prefer Howard and Moorcock, but Tolkien's worldbuilding is unassailable, and his heroes are impressively archetypical.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 11, 2024, 02:32:26 PM
I always had a problem with underaged children trying to play those games. Even at the tabletop.

This set of games were designed for mature audiences. Even the LARP rulebooks, it stated the minimum age allowed to play was 18.

Well in practice, that rule wasn't obeyed. And underage kids were all over them.

Werewolf was my first game as a GM at age 13, for other 13 year olds. I probably ran more sessions in those next few years than any one setting since, because my players loved my game.

We just ignored the perv stuff because it was cringe, and just enjoyed playing BAMFs with edgy 90s attitudes, that kicked ass. Teen boys love lone wolf anti-heroes, put away your pearls.

Today's random thought: Maybe this is one additional reason why many roleplayers like Tolkien-derived materials; no perv stuff?

Sam blatantly wanted to slip into Frodo's magic ring.


Tolkien created an incredibly rich and detailed fantasy world. That world and its aesthetics were aped by practically all fantasy artists, writers, movie makers and game creators of the last 70 years. D&D, the first and still most popular rpg game lifts Tolkien elements wholesale.

It's the wellspring.


Personally, I prefer Howard and Moorcock, but Tolkien's worldbuilding is unassailable, and his heroes are impressively archetypical.

Bullshit.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Jason Coplen on January 11, 2024, 02:44:48 PM
I always had a problem with underaged children trying to play those games. Even at the tabletop.

This set of games were designed for mature audiences. Even the LARP rulebooks, it stated the minimum age allowed to play was 18.

Well in practice, that rule wasn't obeyed. And underage kids were all over them.

Werewolf was my first game as a GM at age 13, for other 13 year olds. I probably ran more sessions in those next few years than any one setting since, because my players loved my game.

We just ignored the perv stuff because it was cringe, and just enjoyed playing BAMFs with edgy 90s attitudes, that kicked ass. Teen boys love lone wolf anti-heroes, put away your pearls.

Today's random thought: Maybe this is one additional reason why many roleplayers like Tolkien-derived materials; no perv stuff?

Sam blatantly wanted to slip into Frodo's magic ring.


Bullshit.

My friend, he's joking. Don't blow up at the man for making a joke. :)

Speaking of jokes, one of the satire sites did an article about Frodo and Sam being gay. It might have been landoverbaptist. I don't fully recall.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: DocJones on January 11, 2024, 05:44:41 PM
Sam blatantly wanted to slip into Frodo's magic ring.

Bullshit.

My friend, he's joking. Don't blow up at the man for making a joke. :)

Speaking of jokes, one of the satire sites did an article about Frodo and Sam being gay. It might have been landoverbaptist. I don't fully recall.

Well Sam did carry the ring in Mordor when he thought Frodo was dead. 
But he willingly gave it back.

BTW My fantasy inspirations/preferences were Fritz Lieber and RE Howard.
I could never get into LoTR as a playable setting, although one of our GMs has tried it over the years using MERP, The One Ring and LoTR 5e.
MERP was the most enjoyable, but it felt further away from Tolkein than the others...(and maybe that's why).

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Jason Coplen on January 11, 2024, 06:18:52 PM
Sam blatantly wanted to slip into Frodo's magic ring.

Bullshit.

My friend, he's joking. Don't blow up at the man for making a joke. :)

Speaking of jokes, one of the satire sites did an article about Frodo and Sam being gay. It might have been landoverbaptist. I don't fully recall.

Well Sam did carry the ring in Mordor when he thought Frodo was dead. 
But he willingly gave it back.

BTW My fantasy inspirations/preferences were Fritz Lieber and RE Howard.
I could never get into LoTR as a playable setting, although one of our GMs has tried it over the years using MERP, The One Ring and LoTR 5e.
MERP was the most enjoyable, but it felt further away from Tolkein than the others...(and maybe that's why).

Tolkien wrapped his story up wonderfully. There's not a ton you can do that's what adventurers want.

Lieber and Howard are both wonderful! 2 of my faves. There's so much adventuring potential in their worlds. :)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on January 11, 2024, 06:28:20 PM
Regarding White Wolf's World of Darkness - I was never a fan, and I'd agree that they created a lot of stuff that effectively encouraged nastiness among players - with backbiting politics, grimdark material, and so forth. Still, there was good material, and I've played a number of games and had fun.

As a side note about Tolkien...

Today's random thought: Maybe this is one additional reason why many roleplayers like Tolkien-derived materials; no perv stuff?

Tolkien created an incredibly rich and detailed fantasy world. That world and its aesthetics were aped by practically all fantasy artists, writers, movie makers and game creators of the last 70 years. D&D, the first and still most popular rpg game lifts Tolkien elements wholesale.

Agreed that Tolkien is excellent. I'm running another of my Savage Middle Earth games next month.

Still, Tolkien goes beyond "no perv stuff". Even G-rated stories and actual medieval tales like Icelandic sagas would have married couples, and wives and mothers as characters. In Tolkien, though, women aren't just absent in the battlefield -- they're even absent from home life. None of the nine Fellowship were married at the start - despite their ages ranging from 29 to 88. Of other characters, Bilbo was a lifelong bachelor -- Elrond, Denethor and Theoden were all widowers, and all of the female Ents had gone missing for millennia.

I think this gives rise to things like jokes about Frodo and Sam being romantic partners. (Frodo was a lifelong bachelor like Bilbo, Legolas, and Gimli.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 07:12:54 PM
Bullshit.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2xpFUMWQAAY06n.jpg)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on January 11, 2024, 07:48:35 PM
Still, Tolkien goes beyond "no perv stuff". Even G-rated stories and actual medieval tales like Icelandic sagas would have married couples, and wives and mothers as characters. In Tolkien, though, women aren't just absent in the battlefield -- they're even absent from home life. None of the nine Fellowship were married at the start - despite their ages ranging from 29 to 88. Of other characters, Bilbo was a lifelong bachelor -- Elrond, Denethor and Theoden were all widowers, and all of the female Ents had gone missing for millennia.

I think this gives rise to things like jokes about Frodo and Sam being romantic partners. (Frodo was a lifelong bachelor like Bilbo, Legolas, and Gimli.)
Well, there is Tom Bombadil and Goldberry, who have a very loving and
happy marriage. But Galadriel and Celeborn -- the other prominent married couple in LOTR -- have about as much chemistry together as two sedimentary rocks.

There's also Beren & Luthien, the fabled doomed lovers, who are frequently referenced.

In general, though, yes, LOTR is notable for its lack of romance.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 11, 2024, 08:03:42 PM
Greetings!

OMG! Tolkien didn't include a bunch of romance and fucking in his stories. So what?

It seems to me that Tolkien's stories are focused on larger, deeper things than temporal, mortal romances.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 11, 2024, 08:59:24 PM
I always had a problem with underaged children trying to play those games. Even at the tabletop.

This set of games were designed for mature audiences. Even the LARP rulebooks, it stated the minimum age allowed to play was 18.

Well in practice, that rule wasn't obeyed. And underage kids were all over them.

Werewolf was my first game as a GM at age 13, for other 13 year olds. I probably ran more sessions in those next few years than any one setting since, because my players loved my game.

We just ignored the perv stuff because it was cringe, and just enjoyed playing BAMFs with edgy 90s attitudes, that kicked ass. Teen boys love lone wolf anti-heroes, put away your pearls.

Today's random thought: Maybe this is one additional reason why many roleplayers like Tolkien-derived materials; no perv stuff?

Sam blatantly wanted to slip into Frodo's magic ring.


Bullshit.

My friend, he's joking. Don't blow up at the man for making a joke. :)

Speaking of jokes, one of the satire sites did an article about Frodo and Sam being gay. It might have been landoverbaptist. I don't fully recall.

Fucking autism man.

Sorry Grognard GM, my bad.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 11, 2024, 09:03:41 PM
Sam blatantly wanted to slip into Frodo's magic ring.

Bullshit.

My friend, he's joking. Don't blow up at the man for making a joke. :)

Speaking of jokes, one of the satire sites did an article about Frodo and Sam being gay. It might have been landoverbaptist. I don't fully recall.

Well Sam did carry the ring in Mordor when he thought Frodo was dead. 
But he willingly gave it back.

BTW My fantasy inspirations/preferences were Fritz Lieber and RE Howard.
I could never get into LoTR as a playable setting, although one of our GMs has tried it over the years using MERP, The One Ring and LoTR 5e.
MERP was the most enjoyable, but it felt further away from Tolkein than the others...(and maybe that's why).

Tolkien wrapped his story up wonderfully. There's not a ton you can do that's what adventurers want.

Lieber and Howard are both wonderful! 2 of my faves. There's so much adventuring potential in their worlds. :)

Well, you could play before/after LotR or elsewhere in his world.

But I mostly agree with you. Mostly because I find ALL IP base gaming to be just as constraining.

Which is why I play/build worlds inspired by but not the IP.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 10:25:46 PM
Fucking autism man.

Sorry Grognard GM, my bad.

(https://i.giphy.com/fVB3h5uJVuKGs.webp)



Well, you could play before/after LotR or elsewhere in his world.

But I mostly agree with you. Mostly because I find ALL IP base gaming to be just as constraining.

Which is why I play/build worlds inspired by but not the IP.

Whenever playing or GMing in a setting where big heroes did colossal deeds, I either want it set in a different time or region of he world, or it's an alternate universe take where fate isn't set.

So for LOTR some earlier age (not later, the magic and races are fading) where there's maybe a big bad not mentioned in lore. Or you're the most important heroes in a distant part of Middle Earth. Or maybe the ring finds its way to a different Hobbit, and he sets out for Mount Doom with his friends.

Don't make your players fight over scraps of glory in a universe where they're bit players in someone else's story.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 11, 2024, 11:26:16 PM
Fucking autism man.

Sorry Grognard GM, my bad.

(https://i.giphy.com/fVB3h5uJVuKGs.webp)



Well, you could play before/after LotR or elsewhere in his world.

But I mostly agree with you. Mostly because I find ALL IP base gaming to be just as constraining.

Which is why I play/build worlds inspired by but not the IP.

Whenever playing or GMing in a setting where big heroes did colossal deeds, I either want it set in a different time or region of he world, or it's an alternate universe take where fate isn't set.

So for LOTR some earlier age (not later, the magic and races are fading) where there's maybe a big bad not mentioned in lore. Or you're the most important heroes in a distant part of Middle Earth. Or maybe the ring finds its way to a different Hobbit, and he sets out for Mount Doom with his friends.

Don't make your players fight over scraps of glory in a universe where they're bit players in someone else's story.

This, one million times this.

The Player wants to be The Hero not a hero.

So, play before LotR, Star Wars Episode IV, etc.

Or build a world that's inspired by but it's not The IP.

I guess that's why most IP based RPGs wind up a modest and niche "success" at best or are forgotten at worst.

WEG got it right with their Ghostbusters game, you're running a franchise, so The Ghostbusters aren't stepping on your toes and you're not under their shadow, and it's still mostly forgotten with the exception of us Grognards.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 11:39:30 PM
WEG got it right with their Ghostbusters game, you're running a franchise, so The Ghostbusters aren't stepping on your toes and you're not under their shadow, and it's still mostly forgotten with the exception of us Grognards.

Yes, the franchise idea is such a no-brainer, that people have been suggesting it for GB movie sequels for decades.

It's on my list of game to run, either original rules, or something like Cartoon Action Hour.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Shipyard Locked on January 12, 2024, 05:44:41 AM
WEG got it right with their Ghostbusters game, you're running a franchise, so The Ghostbusters aren't stepping on your toes and you're not under their shadow, and it's still mostly forgotten with the exception of us Grognards.

Yes, the franchise idea is such a no-brainer, that people have been suggesting it for GB movie sequels for decades.

It's on my list of game to run, either original rules, or something like Cartoon Action Hour.

There's also a clone of the game called Spooktacular which I've read and looks pretty good.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 12, 2024, 07:03:52 AM
WEG got it right with their Ghostbusters game, you're running a franchise, so The Ghostbusters aren't stepping on your toes and you're not under their shadow, and it's still mostly forgotten with the exception of us Grognards.

Yes, the franchise idea is such a no-brainer, that people have been suggesting it for GB movie sequels for decades.

It's on my list of game to run, either original rules, or something like Cartoon Action Hour.

There's also a clone of the game called Spooktacular which I've read and looks pretty good.

Thank you for the recommendation, I'll check it out.

ADDENDUM: A search through my prodigious rpg PDFs collection reveals a ruleslite fan version of the game called Ghoulblasters, and a lite Savage Worlds rules adaption called Savage Ghostbusters. Just FYI for anyone interested.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 12, 2024, 09:46:51 AM
I always had a problem with underaged children trying to play those games. Even at the tabletop.

This set of games were designed for mature audiences. Even the LARP rulebooks, it stated the minimum age allowed to play was 18.

Well in practice, that rule wasn't obeyed. And underage kids were all over them.

My first game of Werewolf was when I was 12.
It's what got me into tabletop RPGs.
The World of Darkness *TABLETOP* games are no more or no less harmful than non-2nd edition Dungeons and Dragons.

LARP is a completely different Beast.

Edit: Even White Wolf themselves knew their games were going to be played by Teenagers and didn't try to discourage it. That's Why they also had their "Black Dog" label, which WAS strictly for 18+ audiences.
I remember trying to buy a copy of "Destiny's Price" (Black Dog Mage Book about Street Life) and my FLGS owner wouldn't sell it to me.
I did have my 19 year old buddy buy it for me then and paid him back of course. But again, even White Wolf was no less 'mature' than an Image Comic.... They saved the real actual messed up stuff for the Black Dog line... Stuff like "Dark Reflection: Specters" and "Freak Legion: Fomori".
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 12, 2024, 10:07:48 AM
Freak Legion: Fomori".

God damn but that was a useful book, I got so much out of it. Top purchase.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Orphan81 on January 12, 2024, 10:27:43 AM
Freak Legion: Fomori".

God damn but that was a useful book, I got so much out of it. Top purchase.

Literally had my players once build the most broken Fomori with it they could.... Ran a one shot with them as a StrikeTeam causing Mayhem all over New York.... then turned around and used that as the backstory and beginning of a New Werewolf Campaign and their Fomori as major antagonists in it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on January 13, 2024, 01:53:54 AM
I just reread LotR a couple months ago, and if I had to say, I'd guess that Tolkien felt that the protagonists being married with kids would make it unfeasible for them to go fucking off across the continent on suicide missions, thus a need for them to be unattached in that way.  Guy'd been in a world war, after all, and exposed first-hand to the horrors therein.  I expect he'd taken a dim view of heading off to war and leaving a bride behind.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on January 13, 2024, 05:03:35 AM
Quote
WTF is wrong with all of these people so fascinated, and even obsessed, with darkness, blood, death, murder, torture, bondage and slavery, cemeteries, nihilism, drugs, and sex? These people are severely damaged, psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually. They need counseling, and Jesus. At the very least, they need to be put into a rubber room. These people are sad, pathetic, and sick. They are individuals that are fucked in the head and0 broken. Honestly, they should not be playing RPG's. They need to get themselves fucking fixed right and healed.

Yeah I agree what's the hell wrong with all those folk fascinated with Genghis Khan making hills of skulls of slaughtered Khorezmians, about Goths burning and plundering Rome, about every bloody horde in history - the more excessive, bloodier, more destructive and leaving ruins in their wake, the better, and then dreaming about nights of booze and getting laid after hard day of burning cities. What the fuck is wrong with those degenerates, am I right?

Quote
Still, Tolkien goes beyond "no perv stuff". Even G-rated stories and actual medieval tales like Icelandic sagas would have married couples, and wives and mothers as characters. In Tolkien, though, women aren't just absent in the battlefield -- they're even absent from home life. None of the nine Fellowship were married at the start - despite their ages ranging from 29 to 88. Of other characters, Bilbo was a lifelong bachelor -- Elrond, Denethor and Theoden were all widowers, and all of the female Ents had gone missing for millennia.

For technical purpose Elrond's wife never died, she sailed west to cure her PTSD after being tortured by orcs.
But yeah we have 3 prominent female characters - but lil to none, normie female characters. 1st age lore is better in this regard I think.

Quote
But Galadriel and Celeborn -- the other prominent married couple in LOTR -- have about as much chemistry together as two sedimentary rocks.

I'm not sure how you expect those ancient very stoic powerful beings to have much chemistry - especially as we do not see them in private.

Quote
There's also Beren & Luthien, the fabled doomed lovers, who are frequently referenced.

In general, though, yes, LOTR is notable for its lack of romance

There is of course underpining chivalric romance and second fiddle one, but yes they are in background.
First Age is way stronger in this regard: doomed lovelife of Turin Turambar, Tuor and Idril, Beren and Luthien, Finwe controversy, Hurin and Morwen, Earendil and Elwing, Thingol and Meliana.

Quote
It seems to me that Tolkien's stories are focused on larger, deeper things than temporal, mortal romances.

Yes, and no. It is valid note considering mythical aspirations of Tolkien - because myths never had problem with mixing narratives of higher deeper stories with romances especially doomed ones or tragical ones or morally dubious one. Greek, Mesopotamian, Bible you name it.
And First Age of Middle-Earth is also brimming with Romance, therefore minimal amount of it we see in LOTR itself is notable.

Quote
The Player wants to be The Hero not a hero.

So, play before LotR, Star Wars Episode IV, etc.

Wouldn't it be better to play AFTER? Like if you play BEFORE then you know IP heroes will came. If you play 300 years later they are heroes of old past, half forgotten, and there are new exciting threats and situation you can device.

But generally every big setting has a lot of place to put campaign. Rarely there are settings where only important or crucial moment was The Hero of original first book struggle.
Tolkien is good example as you see reading through his notes, that LOTR was small scale epilogue to truly Epic Shit.


Quote
I just reread LotR a couple months ago, and if I had to say, I'd guess that Tolkien felt that the protagonists being married with kids would make it unfeasible for them to go fucking off across the continent on suicide missions, thus a need for them to be unattached in that way.  Guy'd been in a world war, after all, and exposed first-hand to the horrors therein.  I expect he'd taken a dim view of heading off to war and leaving a bride behind.

Yeah I think married hobbits would not go with Frodo - only option would be to make Frodo married, which could make it quite even more tragic in the end, yes. Interesting option.
Aragorn is doing all he can to get married, Gandalf is angel and it's not real option, Gimli is young for a dwarf, and many dwarves are bachelors. Hard to say much about Legolas most tabula rasa character. Boromir was described by Tolkien as distinctly uninterested in romance and courtship, because fuck dying Numenorean race that's why. Killed by noble asexualism, poor schmucks.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on January 13, 2024, 10:41:36 AM
Quote
WTF is wrong with all of these people so fascinated, and even obsessed, with darkness, blood, death, murder, torture, bondage and slavery, cemeteries, nihilism, drugs, and sex? These people are severely damaged, psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually. They need counseling, and Jesus. At the very least, they need to be put into a rubber room. These people are sad, pathetic, and sick. They are individuals that are fucked in the head and0 broken. Honestly, they should not be playing RPG's. They need to get themselves fucking fixed right and healed.

Yeah I agree what's the hell wrong with all those folk fascinated with Genghis Khan making hills of skulls of slaughtered Khorezmians, about Goths burning and plundering Rome, about every bloody horde in history - the more excessive, bloodier, more destructive and leaving ruins in their wake, the better, and then dreaming about nights of booze and getting laid after hard day of burning cities. What the fuck is wrong with those degenerates, am I right?


Nice burn there 😄
Anyway, am I the only one who’s a free expression absolutist when it comes to entertainment like games? It’s literally about doing things we can’t do in real life. I don’t care if it’s called Rapist: The Massacre….IT’S A GAME.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 13, 2024, 11:00:50 AM
You’re not the only one. Free expression in games must exist.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BadApple on January 13, 2024, 11:34:19 AM
To be fair, I didn't criticize any in game activity.  I was criticizing behavior that leaked out of the game and made note of how much was centered around one particular product line.  I don't even have any hard conclusions drawn, I just see a corollary and have some rather pointed questions.

I'm fully on board with any table full of adults exploring any themes or play styles they are all down for.  Some things should be handled as not-safe-for-public-play and not safe for children but I don't think that is a controversial opinion.  I also have things that I, even as an adult, don't feel comfortable with at the table.  (Should it be something I find objectionable to the point of precluding me from playing, I will just excuse myself and find another table.)  Not everyone likes Italian sausage and black olives on their pizza.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 13, 2024, 11:48:38 AM
As someone that was a transgressive, irreverent 90s teen, I always promised myself I wouldn't grow into one of those people that got old and became the fun police. I've largely managed to live up to that.

Kids are going to get into stuff they're not supposed to, and they'll handle it or they won't. NOTE: this is kids seeking things out themselves, not being led like a horse to water. Will some kids get into trouble, or not be able to handle things? Yes, the ones that would grow into adults that can't handle life, no matter how protected their childhood was.

The more we 'protect' kids, the more messed up they seem to become as adults.

FINAL NOTE: No, this isn't a call to watch Saw with your kids (shit, I don't watch Saw, because it's goreporn). I measured what to expose my kid to as he grew, I'm not some edgy ex-goth with arrested development or some shit. But, if my 13 year old had been watching Saw in secret, and it didn't seem to affect his grades or behavior, who gives a shit? I'd just tell him he had bad taste, and close the door.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 13, 2024, 12:43:52 PM
FINAL NOTE: No, this isn't a call to watch Saw with your kids (shit, I don't watch Saw, because it's goreporn). I measured what to expose my kid to as he grew, I'm not some edgy ex-goth with arrested development or some shit. But, if my 13 year old had been watching Saw in secret, and it didn't seem to affect his grades or behavior, who gives a shit? I'd just tell him he had bad taste, and close the door.

It's a tough line to draw. I think about all the fucked up shit I watched as a preteen/teen and, as the joke goes, "I turned out ok!" :D
But I do think you want to draw some boundaries and let your kids know that some things are unacceptable so long as you're responsible for their growin' up.
(Not a parent, do have a 12 year old nephew whom I consider the next best thing.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wrath of God on January 13, 2024, 12:51:21 PM
Quote
Anyway, am I the only one who’s a free expression absolutist when it comes to entertainment like games? It’s literally about doing things we can’t do in real life. I don’t care if it’s called Rapist: The Massacre….IT’S A GAME.

I mean attempt to control private tables is moot point, even someone relatively far from libertarianism as me can see that.
On the other hand well I gonna totally judge privately people playing Vampire the Rapist, or Mongol the Massacre. Especially using pools of D10s, blah. ;) After all every man is unity - it's folly to think you can separate yourself into different zones of life. Great wizard said: "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?"

Quote
Not everyone likes Italian sausage and black olives on their pizza.

Savages, all of them savages!!!

Quote
The more we 'protect' kids, the more messed up they seem to become as adults.

I have mixed feeling here - I think lassez-faire raising is just as toxic as totalitarian rise. Hard and narrow is road of good parent. I do not envy them in this regard.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 13, 2024, 01:11:17 PM

Nice burn there 😄
Anyway, am I the only one who’s a free expression absolutist when it comes to entertainment like games? It’s literally about doing things we can’t do in real life. I don’t care if it’s called Rapist: The Massacre….IT’S A GAME.

My current most played character is a high functioning sociopath. He has no internal moral code, and instead relies on a set of modes of conduct to decide how to handle a situation. He'd risk his life to save someone if they fell under a set of imperatives, or likewise casually murder someone that didn't.

I enjoy getting into the headspace of a character, and I've found it fascinating. His sociopathy comes from childhood trauma, and he has organically been gaining a rudimentary personality.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BadApple on January 13, 2024, 01:20:50 PM
As someone that was a transgressive, irreverent 90s teen, I always promised myself I wouldn't grow into one of those people that got old and became the fun police. I've largely managed to live up to that.

Kids are going to get into stuff they're not supposed to, and they'll handle it or they won't. NOTE: this is kids seeking things out themselves, not being led like a horse to water. Will some kids get into trouble, or not be able to handle things? Yes, the ones that would grow into adults that can't handle life, no matter how protected their childhood was.

The more we 'protect' kids, the more messed up they seem to become as adults.

FINAL NOTE: No, this isn't a call to watch Saw with your kids (shit, I don't watch Saw, because it's goreporn). I measured what to expose my kid to as he grew, I'm not some edgy ex-goth with arrested development or some shit. But, if my 13 year old had been watching Saw in secret, and it didn't seem to affect his grades or behavior, who gives a shit? I'd just tell him he had bad taste, and close the door.

It's always tricky when it come to what's appropriate to expose a minor to.  As a general rule of thumb, I try to treat other people's kids in a way that won't offend a Mennonite mother if I don't have guidance from the parents otherwise.  I also go with the idea that if it's something I would feel the need to ask an adult if they are ok with something then I need to not be the one to expose a minor to it.

As for what I am comfortable exposing my own children to or allowing them to expose themselves to, I'm a little more open but I'm the one that's been there from the beginning and have a rough idea of what they are ready for.  That's kind of the thing, I'm the guardian and that's what being a guardian is all about.

Finally, I will say that I've done the best job I could to help my kids make good decisions for themselves and I need to trust that it worked.  I'm not always happy about my 16yo's choices but at least she's in better shape than a lot of other teens her age.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 13, 2024, 01:29:24 PM
Quote
WTF is wrong with all of these people so fascinated, and even obsessed, with darkness, blood, death, murder, torture, bondage and slavery, cemeteries, nihilism, drugs, and sex? These people are severely damaged, psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually. They need counseling, and Jesus. At the very least, they need to be put into a rubber room. These people are sad, pathetic, and sick. They are individuals that are fucked in the head and0 broken. Honestly, they should not be playing RPG's. They need to get themselves fucking fixed right and healed.

Yeah I agree what's the hell wrong with all those folk fascinated with Genghis Khan making hills of skulls of slaughtered Khorezmians, about Goths burning and plundering Rome, about every bloody horde in history - the more excessive, bloodier, more destructive and leaving ruins in their wake, the better, and then dreaming about nights of booze and getting laid after hard day of burning cities. What the fuck is wrong with those degenerates, am I right?


Nice burn there 😄
Anyway, am I the only one who’s a free expression absolutist when it comes to entertainment like games? It’s literally about doing things we can’t do in real life. I don’t care if it’s called Rapist: The Massacre….IT’S A GAME.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Right, right.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on January 13, 2024, 01:40:18 PM
Quote
Anyway, am I the only one who’s a free expression absolutist when it comes to entertainment like games? It’s literally about doing things we can’t do in real life. I don’t care if it’s called Rapist: The Massacre….IT’S A GAME.

I mean attempt to control private tables is moot point, even someone relatively far from libertarianism as me can see that.
On the other hand well I gonna totally judge privately people playing Vampire the Rapist, or Mongol the Massacre. Especially using pools of D10s, blah. ;) After all every man is unity - it's folly to think you can separate yourself into different zones of life. Great wizard said: "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?"

Quote
Not everyone likes Italian sausage and black olives on their pizza.

Savages, all of them savages!!!

Quote
The more we 'protect' kids, the more messed up they seem to become as adults.

I have mixed feeling here - I think lassez-faire raising is just as toxic as totalitarian rise. Hard and narrow is road of good parent. I do not envy them in this regard.

Judge away, or at least criticize and critique. What I don’t like is “this publisher printed this thing we don’t approve of, therefore they should apologize and be banned from discussions.”
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BadApple on January 13, 2024, 02:17:02 PM
Judge away, or at least criticize and critique. What I don’t like is “this publisher printed this thing we don’t approve of, therefore they should apologize and be banned from discussions.”

I don't think things I have an issue with should be banned from discussion.  Far from it.  I think I, and anyone else, should take on discussing both the demerits and virtues of anything that brings up heavy issues.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 13, 2024, 08:52:49 PM
I have mixed feeling here - I think lassez-faire raising is just as toxic as totalitarian rise. Hard and narrow is road of good parent. I do not envy them in this regard.

I have an 8 year old and a 5 year old...you gotta give them train tracks, basically. Sometimes they're going to deviate, but for the most part you MUST provide a solid, predictable path. The issue is when things come up that don't fit on the tracks. Do you pretend they don't exist or explain them? That's where a lot of people fuck up, they try to ignore reality and not address problems. Kids will see right through that nonsense and actively seek out stuff they don't understand. It's extremely difficult to be sure whatever you're doing is right 99% of the time, but I do know my kids hate fucking communists and have an take an active role in their own theological education, so I'm good with it so far.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 13, 2024, 09:53:32 PM
I have mixed feeling here - I think lassez-faire raising is just as toxic as totalitarian rise. Hard and narrow is road of good parent. I do not envy them in this regard.

I have an 8 year old and a 5 year old

Dang dude. You're in the thick of it.

It gets easier!

:)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 13, 2024, 10:52:20 PM
It gets easier!

Ehh, it gets different. Change is as good as a rest and all that. Now instead of worrying about child molesters, or him wandering into traffic, I get to worry about him copping a false rape claim, or being drafted into the military meatgrinder. Good times!


Brad is certainly right about morally steering. My philosophy is don't sweat the little stuff, as long as you shape the broad strokes. My boy is as prepared to weather and resist wokery and Communism as I was able to make him. Anyone raising a kid, and not trying to give them a similar moral and philosophical viewpoint as themselves, is raising a future stranger.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 13, 2024, 11:09:08 PM
My kids have all pretty much swallowed the woke bullshit.  sigh...life is a meat grinder and if you can't teach them with words, you have to let them learn the hard way.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jhkim on January 14, 2024, 01:08:20 AM
It gets easier!

Ehh, it gets different. Change is as good as a rest and all that. Now instead of worrying about child molesters, or him wandering into traffic, I get to worry about him copping a false rape claim, or being drafted into the military meatgrinder. Good times!

Brad is certainly right about morally steering. My philosophy is don't sweat the little stuff, as long as you shape the broad strokes. My boy is as prepared to weather and resist wokery and Communism as I was able to make him. Anyone raising a kid, and not trying to give them a similar moral and philosophical viewpoint as themselves, is raising a future stranger.

I think this is implied in there, but for emphasis, one of my big efforts was to teach my son to think for himself, and not to think something just because I or anyone else told them.

That said - and apropos the RPG topic - particularly when he was younger - under 10, say - I would curate what he was reading, and I probably wouldn't have let him read White Wolf World of Darkness lines. D&D, Traveller, and others were fine, though. Once he was in middle school and would go to the library and bookstore by himself, though, I stopped and deferred to his judgement. (Though I would still recommend things.)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yosemitemike on January 14, 2024, 04:51:26 AM
I don't think things I have an issue with should be banned from discussion.  Far from it.  I think I, and anyone else, should take on discussing both the demerits and virtues of anything that brings up heavy issues.

That's one of the fundamental differences between us and the woke types.  They do think that things they disapprove of should be banned from discussion.  Remeber when the Goblin Slayer rpg came out in English?  If discussion about it wasn't immediately banned, then there were people immediately demanding that any discussion of it be banned.  They didn't just not buy it or discuss it.  Because they had declared the source material to be problematic, they immediately decided that no one could discuss it at all.  This is hardly the only instance of this kind of thing.  It's just one many examples of their knee-jerk authoritarianism. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Fheredin on January 18, 2024, 08:21:56 AM
As someone that was a transgressive, irreverent 90s teen, I always promised myself I wouldn't grow into one of those people that got old and became the fun police. I've largely managed to live up to that.

Kids are going to get into stuff they're not supposed to, and they'll handle it or they won't. NOTE: this is kids seeking things out themselves, not being led like a horse to water. Will some kids get into trouble, or not be able to handle things? Yes, the ones that would grow into adults that can't handle life, no matter how protected their childhood was.

The more we 'protect' kids, the more messed up they seem to become as adults.

FINAL NOTE: No, this isn't a call to watch Saw with your kids (shit, I don't watch Saw, because it's goreporn). I measured what to expose my kid to as he grew, I'm not some edgy ex-goth with arrested development or some shit. But, if my 13 year old had been watching Saw in secret, and it didn't seem to affect his grades or behavior, who gives a shit? I'd just tell him he had bad taste, and close the door.

I can definitely appreciate this. I was never a "bad" kid, but I totally watched The Thing and played Parasite Eve when I was 13, and I still have the whole of the Textfiles.com Anarchy section somewhere on one of my mass storage drives.

I think that this is something of an immune reaction and allergy situation. Your immune system needs to be exposed to some dirt grime and germs to properly develop. In the same way, the more you protect people from the bad stuff out there, the more of a smooth-brain they become.

At the end of the day, the problem with Wokism is that it's gone so far liberal that it has turned Marxism into a secular religion and then became hyper-conservative. I find it ironic that Amon from The Legend of Korra was probably intended to ape Marxism into being a generic villain, but he actually proved to be surprisingly prophetic as Marxism fell victim to regulatory capture from the elite and veered away from class warfare and into completely meaningles racial and sexual proclivity niches. In retrospect, the best definition of Woke is probably that it's watered-down Marxism that has turned away from class struggle and towards social anarchism.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on January 18, 2024, 03:02:21 PM
sigh...life is a meat grinder and if you can't teach them with words, you have to let them learn the hard way.

I hated having to do that with my daughter. I kept wanting to get across to her that there are easier ways to learn life lessons than getting your nose bloodied.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 18, 2024, 06:58:19 PM
sigh...life is a meat grinder and if you can't teach them with words, you have to let them learn the hard way.

I hated having to do that with my daughter. I kept wanting to get across to her that there are easier ways to learn life lessons than getting your nose bloodied.

It's probably just desserts in my case, my Dad says I came out ass backwards and have been doing things that way ever since.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Mistwell on January 18, 2024, 09:41:04 PM
[deleted by Mistwell - didn't see which thread this was]
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 19, 2024, 12:20:46 AM
sigh...life is a meat grinder and if you can't teach them with words, you have to let them learn the hard way.

I hated having to do that with my daughter. I kept wanting to get across to her that there are easier ways to learn life lessons than getting your nose bloodied.

Bare knuckle boxing with your daughter is an unconventional way of toughening her up, but whatever works for you as a parent.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on January 24, 2024, 12:21:55 AM
Have we already discussed the AI art position stuff they've posted? I feel like we may have, but didn't really want to scroll through who knows how many pages. I know there are differing points of view on that sort of thing here, and that we are lucky enough to be able to constructively discuss that sort of thing. They on the other hand have apparently placed a "moratorium on support or apologism for the use of AI generation in commercial products".

IDK, just thought that the wording there was very much in character for them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on January 24, 2024, 12:32:13 AM
Also, how long do we think it'll be before White Wolf past products are either self-censored or censored by Big Purple? I feel like Paradox and the like are very left leaning corpos, who now own the rights, and earlier WoD books aren't always kosher per the new woke branches of the Technocratic NWO. That and Big Purple seems to have already considered starting, with Beast (admittedly a shitty game with disturbing and crap theming) and with the whole 5e woke mob incidents more generally that resulted in that one book getting pulled and White Wolf losing pretty much all independent creative autonomy.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: zircher on January 24, 2024, 01:06:00 AM
Have we already discussed the AI art position stuff they've posted?
Not sure if it was in this forum thread, but my silver bullet is Adobe Firefly which is an ethically sourced AI art generator.  It pretty much sinks any argument AI haters have besides an emotional one.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Horace on January 26, 2024, 10:53:54 AM
Have we already discussed the AI art position stuff they've posted? I feel like we may have, but didn't really want to scroll through who knows how many pages. I know there are differing points of view on that sort of thing here, and that we are lucky enough to be able to constructively discuss that sort of thing. They on the other hand have apparently placed a "moratorium on support or apologism for the use of AI generation in commercial products".

IDK, just thought that the wording there was very much in character for them.
This is just bizarre to me. I was just getting back into RPGs for the first time in years, creating art with Stable Diffusion and writing a product that I eventually planned to publish. But after a few days of perusing leftwing RPG forums and being reminded of how stupid and backward the whole community is, I've lost all interest. What's the point of creating a product that will just get hammered for wrong-think for some transgression or other? It's impossible to determine what is/isn't socially unacceptable these days, so why bother?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: zircher on January 26, 2024, 11:05:44 AM
Sad but true.  However please don't give up on your dreams and desires because of them.  Something to remember, they are always the victim and no amount of appeasement is enough.  The best course of action is to just ignore them since that hurts the narcissist the most.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: BadApple on January 26, 2024, 11:09:12 AM
Have we already discussed the AI art position stuff they've posted? I feel like we may have, but didn't really want to scroll through who knows how many pages. I know there are differing points of view on that sort of thing here, and that we are lucky enough to be able to constructively discuss that sort of thing. They on the other hand have apparently placed a "moratorium on support or apologism for the use of AI generation in commercial products".

IDK, just thought that the wording there was very much in character for them.
This is just bizarre to me. I was just getting back into RPGs for the first time in years, creating art with Stable Diffusion and writing a product that I eventually planned to publish. But after a few days of perusing leftwing RPG forums and being reminded of how stupid and backward the whole community is, I've lost all interest. What's the point of creating a product that will just get hammered for wrong-think for some transgression or other? It's impossible to determine what is/isn't socially unacceptable these days, so why bother?

Just remember that those assholes have hard canceled RPGPundit and he's selling like hotcakes.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yosemitemike on January 26, 2024, 11:59:48 AM
This is just bizarre to me. I was just getting back into RPGs for the first time in years, creating art with Stable Diffusion and writing a product that I eventually planned to publish. But after a few days of perusing leftwing RPG forums and being reminded of how stupid and backward the whole community is, I've lost all interest. What's the point of creating a product that will just get hammered for wrong-think for some transgression or other? It's impossible to determine what is/isn't socially unacceptable these days, so why bother?

Just ignore them.  Nothing they say matters.  They think that what they say is very important but no one outside of that echo chamber know or cares about any of it.  If what they said mattered, the OSR wouldn't exist and we would all be playing G/N/S darlings like My Life With Master.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: KindaMeh on January 26, 2024, 12:04:26 PM
Sad but true.  However please don't give up on your dreams and desires because of them.  Something to remember, they are always the victim and no amount of appeasement is enough.  The best course of action is to just ignore them since that hurts the narcissist the most.

This. Precisely this.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on January 26, 2024, 06:29:45 PM
sigh...life is a meat grinder and if you can't teach them with words, you have to let them learn the hard way.

I hated having to do that with my daughter. I kept wanting to get across to her that there are easier ways to learn life lessons than getting your nose bloodied.

Bare knuckle boxing with your daughter is an unconventional way of toughening her up, but whatever works for you as a parent.

I hope you are joking, but for the record - I have never hit my daughter.

I didn't bail her out of jail when she got arrested for possession of pot and a weapons violation, though.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 26, 2024, 06:42:56 PM
sigh...life is a meat grinder and if you can't teach them with words, you have to let them learn the hard way.

I hated having to do that with my daughter. I kept wanting to get across to her that there are easier ways to learn life lessons than getting your nose bloodied.

Bare knuckle boxing with your daughter is an unconventional way of toughening her up, but whatever works for you as a parent.

I hope you are joking, but for the record - I have never hit my daughter.

I didn't bail her out of jail when she got arrested for possession of pot and a weapons violation, though.
In my family we have let them sit in jail a few days to give them time to ponder just how they wound up in jail. There haven’t been repeat performances. Bailing someone out mere hours after their arrest seems to send the wrong message.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on January 27, 2024, 05:01:15 AM
sigh...life is a meat grinder and if you can't teach them with words, you have to let them learn the hard way.

I hated having to do that with my daughter. I kept wanting to get across to her that there are easier ways to learn life lessons than getting your nose bloodied.

Bare knuckle boxing with your daughter is an unconventional way of toughening her up, but whatever works for you as a parent.

I hope you are joking, but for the record - I have never hit my daughter.

Yes, I was joking about you bare knuckle boxing your daughter like a Victorian muscleman. If I ever accuse you of duelling her with flintlock pistols, or challenging her to trial by combat, I'll save time with the caveat that it will also be a joke.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: SHARK on January 27, 2024, 07:09:52 AM
sigh...life is a meat grinder and if you can't teach them with words, you have to let them learn the hard way.

I hated having to do that with my daughter. I kept wanting to get across to her that there are easier ways to learn life lessons than getting your nose bloodied.

Bare knuckle boxing with your daughter is an unconventional way of toughening her up, but whatever works for you as a parent.

I hope you are joking, but for the record - I have never hit my daughter.

I didn't bail her out of jail when she got arrested for possession of pot and a weapons violation, though.
In my family we have let them sit in jail a few days to give them time to ponder just how they wound up in jail. There haven’t been repeat performances. Bailing someone out mere hours after their arrest seems to send the wrong message.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Such sweet righteousness! I love that! Parents with backbone and conviction!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on January 27, 2024, 09:01:06 AM
  When bareknuckle boxing your daughters to impose discipline keep in mind, focus on body shots (no head shots can do damage long term) and try to save any shots to the liver (best landed with a left hook as the liver is easy to hit with it) towards the end as it will likely fold them.   Vary straight shots and do not get carried away putting out volume, as if you catch the point of an elbow between the knuckles or accidently lay into a hip joint...it will be you who might be weeping from the experience.

    Also remember to iron your stockings and wax your mustache before beginning. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: jeff37923 on January 27, 2024, 07:13:27 PM
I love my daughter to death, but goddamn she went through a phase around age 18 where she became the most inept criminal genius I ever met. She is 34 now and I am so glad she got her shit together.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Jason Coplen on January 30, 2024, 05:54:39 PM
Someone cried like a bitch and started a thread over there called an open letter to gencon. Sheesh! The sheer craziness involved astounds me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 30, 2024, 08:34:31 PM
If they aren't going I might consider it this year.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on January 30, 2024, 08:51:42 PM
Someone cried like a bitch and started a thread over there called an open letter to gencon. Sheesh! The sheer craziness involved astounds me.

Quote
Because Indiana’s legislature is trying to outlaw the very existence of people I love — people I want to bring with me to GenCon because they enjoy the same hobbies I do.

Huh? They're outlawing who?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Jason Coplen on January 30, 2024, 09:12:34 PM
Someone cried like a bitch and started a thread over there called an open letter to gencon. Sheesh! The sheer craziness involved astounds me.

Quote
Because Indiana’s legislature is trying to outlaw the very existence of people I love — people I want to bring with me to GenCon because they enjoy the same hobbies I do.

Huh? They're outlawing who?

LOL Beats me.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: zircher on January 30, 2024, 10:08:04 PM
Facts don't matter, it is all about the feels and victimhood.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 30, 2024, 10:24:33 PM
It’s the biological sex bill. Apparently the state codifying basic biology is a bad thing.

If the bill becomes law, a trans person is merely recognized as a person just like the rest of us. They don’t get to be “gender affirmed” by the state. Maybe that will motivate some to get the help they need. Who knows.

The activists should have stopped before the whole “trans women are women” thing. After that the backlash was inevitable.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: wmarshal on January 31, 2024, 12:38:45 AM
It’s the biological sex bill. Apparently the state codifying basic biology is a bad thing.

If the bill becomes law, a trans person is merely recognized as a person just like the rest of us. They don’t get to be “gender affirmed” by the state. Maybe that will motivate some to get the help they need. Who knows.

The activists should have stopped before the whole “trans women are women” thing. After that the backlash was inevitable.
It is impossible for the activists to stop. They HAVE to enforce that everyone affirm their dysphoria. If anyone defies their 2 + 2 = 5 belief that person is a reminder that their dysphoria isn’t reality. That’s why they had to go after the baker over and over again that nobody would know about otherwise. They could go to Indianapolis for a few days and most likely encounter 0 problems at Gen Con. However, knowing that the state of Indiana does not go along with their deception causes cognitive break. To avoid that interruption of their deception they want to be able to not think about Indiana at all. They cannot attend Gen Con in Indianapolis without being reminded that they are in Indiana, and that Indiana does not support their delusion.

The people suffering from gender dysphoria have my sympathy. I’ve known a couple, and they didn’t go through that for kicks; which is different than the sizable number of creeps jumping onto the label to infiltrate female spaces. They have a need to have their dysphoria supported and reinforced. Where they become totalitarian is when they demand that everyone else support their delusion as well.

I’m more concerned about the “allies” who aren’t suffering from gender dysphoria themselves. It seems like they’re using the transgender community to leverage the public into going along with their 2 + 2 = 5 logic (“transwomen are women”) because they know that if they can get the population to go along with that, then they’ll be able to force people to go along with anything. It’s the technique of the totalitarian ideology of breaking people by turning them into blatant liars.

As to Gen Con leaving Indianapolis they are in a contract to be there through 2030. The current hullabaloo is mere virtue signaling. Even after 2030 it would be extremely difficult for Gen Con to change locations successfully. If they were to try it’s much more likely that they would fail and significantly decrease their revenues if not collapse. The Woke would have a better chance at success turning Indiana purple the next decade. That’d also be a heavy lift, but more likely given the minds of mush the upcoming generations seem to have. About 1/5 of Gen Z are Holocaust deniers, and the trend lines are frightening. We are so screwed.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 31, 2024, 01:23:15 AM
It’s the biological sex bill. Apparently the state codifying basic biology is a bad thing.

If the bill becomes law, a trans person is merely recognized as a person just like the rest of us. They don’t get to be “gender affirmed” by the state. Maybe that will motivate some to get the help they need. Who knows.

The activists should have stopped before the whole “trans women are women” thing. After that the backlash was inevitable.
It is impossible for the activists to stop. They HAVE to enforce that everyone affirm their dysphoria. If anyone defies their 2 + 2 = 5 belief that person is a reminder that their dysphoria isn’t reality. That’s why they had to go after the baker over and over again that nobody would know about otherwise. They could go to Indianapolis for a few days and most likely encounter 0 problems at Gen Con. However, knowing that the state of Indiana does not go along with their deception causes cognitive break. To avoid that interruption of their deception they want to be able to not think about Indiana at all. They cannot attend Gen Con in Indianapolis without being reminded that they are in Indiana, and that Indiana does not support their delusion.

The people suffering from gender dysphoria have my sympathy. I’ve known a couple, and they didn’t go through that for kicks; which is different than the sizable number of creeps jumping onto the label to infiltrate female spaces. They have a need to have their dysphoria supported and reinforced. Where they become totalitarian is when they demand that everyone else support their delusion as well.

I’m more concerned about the “allies” who aren’t suffering from gender dysphoria themselves. It seems like they’re using the transgender community to leverage the public into going along with their 2 + 2 = 5 logic (“transwomen are women”) because they know that if they can get the population to go along with that, then they’ll be able to force people to go along with anything. It’s the technique of the totalitarian ideology of breaking people by turning them into blatant liars.

As to Gen Con leaving Indianapolis they are in a contract to be there through 2030. The current hullabaloo is mere virtue signaling. Even after 2030 it would be extremely difficult for Gen Con to change locations successfully. If they were to try it’s much more likely that they would fail and significantly decrease their revenues if not collapse. The Woke would have a better chance at success turning Indiana purple the next decade. That’d also be a heavy lift, but more likely given the minds of mush the upcoming generations seem to have. About 1/5 of Gen Z are Holocaust deniers, and the trend lines are frightening. We are so screwed.

When I saw "outlaw the existence" I was 99% sure it was trans activists. And yes, empathy for people suffering gender dysphoria, but that isn't a blank check for all this gender identity nonsense that the activists are pushing.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Brad on January 31, 2024, 09:25:08 AM
Anyone who says the slippery slope isn't real is probably the one greasing up the slope.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on January 31, 2024, 09:33:30 AM
It’s the biological sex bill. Apparently the state codifying basic biology is a bad thing.

If the bill becomes law, a trans person is merely recognized as a person just like the rest of us. They don’t get to be “gender affirmed” by the state. Maybe that will motivate some to get the help they need. Who knows.

The activists should have stopped before the whole “trans women are women” thing. After that the backlash was inevitable.
It is impossible for the activists to stop. They HAVE to enforce that everyone affirm their dysphoria. If anyone defies their 2 + 2 = 5 belief that person is a reminder that their dysphoria isn’t reality. That’s why they had to go after the baker over and over again that nobody would know about otherwise. They could go to Indianapolis for a few days and most likely encounter 0 problems at Gen Con. However, knowing that the state of Indiana does not go along with their deception causes cognitive break. To avoid that interruption of their deception they want to be able to not think about Indiana at all. They cannot attend Gen Con in Indianapolis without being reminded that they are in Indiana, and that Indiana does not support their delusion.

The people suffering from gender dysphoria have my sympathy. I’ve known a couple, and they didn’t go through that for kicks; which is different than the sizable number of creeps jumping onto the label to infiltrate female spaces. They have a need to have their dysphoria supported and reinforced. Where they become totalitarian is when they demand that everyone else support their delusion as well.

I’m more concerned about the “allies” who aren’t suffering from gender dysphoria themselves. It seems like they’re using the transgender community to leverage the public into going along with their 2 + 2 = 5 logic (“transwomen are women”) because they know that if they can get the population to go along with that, then they’ll be able to force people to go along with anything. It’s the technique of the totalitarian ideology of breaking people by turning them into blatant liars.

As to Gen Con leaving Indianapolis they are in a contract to be there through 2030. The current hullabaloo is mere virtue signaling. Even after 2030 it would be extremely difficult for Gen Con to change locations successfully. If they were to try it’s much more likely that they would fail and significantly decrease their revenues if not collapse. The Woke would have a better chance at success turning Indiana purple the next decade. That’d also be a heavy lift, but more likely given the minds of mush the upcoming generations seem to have. About 1/5 of Gen Z are Holocaust deniers, and the trend lines are frightening. We are so screwed.

When I saw "outlaw the existence" I was 99% sure it was trans activists. And yes, empathy for people suffering gender dysphoria, but that isn't a blank check for all this gender identity nonsense that the activists are pushing.

  If I am being 100 percent honest...I had empathy for the condition before....NOW??  I am ok with outlawing existence at least in any way it is recognized legally or socially.  So I think their behavior is having the effect they screech about rather than preventing it.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on January 31, 2024, 01:49:37 PM
It’s the biological sex bill. Apparently the state codifying basic biology is a bad thing.

If the bill becomes law, a trans person is merely recognized as a person just like the rest of us. They don’t get to be “gender affirmed” by the state. Maybe that will motivate some to get the help they need. Who knows.

The activists should have stopped before the whole “trans women are women” thing. After that the backlash was inevitable.
It is impossible for the activists to stop. They HAVE to enforce that everyone affirm their dysphoria. If anyone defies their 2 + 2 = 5 belief that person is a reminder that their dysphoria isn’t reality. That’s why they had to go after the baker over and over again that nobody would know about otherwise. They could go to Indianapolis for a few days and most likely encounter 0 problems at Gen Con. However, knowing that the state of Indiana does not go along with their deception causes cognitive break. To avoid that interruption of their deception they want to be able to not think about Indiana at all. They cannot attend Gen Con in Indianapolis without being reminded that they are in Indiana, and that Indiana does not support their delusion.

The people suffering from gender dysphoria have my sympathy. I’ve known a couple, and they didn’t go through that for kicks; which is different than the sizable number of creeps jumping onto the label to infiltrate female spaces. They have a need to have their dysphoria supported and reinforced. Where they become totalitarian is when they demand that everyone else support their delusion as well.

I’m more concerned about the “allies” who aren’t suffering from gender dysphoria themselves. It seems like they’re using the transgender community to leverage the public into going along with their 2 + 2 = 5 logic (“transwomen are women”) because they know that if they can get the population to go along with that, then they’ll be able to force people to go along with anything. It’s the technique of the totalitarian ideology of breaking people by turning them into blatant liars.

As to Gen Con leaving Indianapolis they are in a contract to be there through 2030. The current hullabaloo is mere virtue signaling. Even after 2030 it would be extremely difficult for Gen Con to change locations successfully. If they were to try it’s much more likely that they would fail and significantly decrease their revenues if not collapse. The Woke would have a better chance at success turning Indiana purple the next decade. That’d also be a heavy lift, but more likely given the minds of mush the upcoming generations seem to have. About 1/5 of Gen Z are Holocaust deniers, and the trend lines are frightening. We are so screwed.

When I saw "outlaw the existence" I was 99% sure it was trans activists. And yes, empathy for people suffering gender dysphoria, but that isn't a blank check for all this gender identity nonsense that the activists are pushing.

  If I am being 100 percent honest...I had empathy for the condition before....NOW??  I am ok with outlawing existence at least in any way it is recognized legally or socially.  So I think their behavior is having the effect they screech about rather than preventing it.

Person A has body dysmorphia and thinks it's too fat so he engages in weight control meausures like vomiting, we DO NOT affirm the condition.

Person B has body dysmorphia and thinks he should be blind, amputee, quadraplegic, etc. we DO NOT affirm the condition.

Person C has a mental condition and thinks he's Napoleon... We DO NOT affirm the condition.

Person TQ+ has body dysmorphia and thinks he/she was born in the wrong sex... We should affirm the condition?

Affirming, hormones, operations, etc DO NOT reduce the 41% suicide rate, yet we keep being told WE are commiting genocide by not partaking in the delusion...

Can someone make it make sense? Why isn't psychotherapy or psychiatric treatment the option?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 31, 2024, 01:58:48 PM
Because psychiatrists are causing the problem?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on January 31, 2024, 02:23:10 PM
Rosemary Kennedy was 22 and started acting difficult and moody, so her father arranged a lobotomy.

Some boy feels like he was born the wrong sex, so his parent arranges hormones and a surgery consultation.

The parallel is obvious. One is recognized as backwards and insane, while the other is happening right now. SMH.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 31, 2024, 02:36:24 PM
It’s the biological sex bill. Apparently the state codifying basic biology is a bad thing.

If the bill becomes law, a trans person is merely recognized as a person just like the rest of us. They don’t get to be “gender affirmed” by the state. Maybe that will motivate some to get the help they need. Who knows.

The activists should have stopped before the whole “trans women are women” thing. After that the backlash was inevitable.
It is impossible for the activists to stop. They HAVE to enforce that everyone affirm their dysphoria. If anyone defies their 2 + 2 = 5 belief that person is a reminder that their dysphoria isn’t reality. That’s why they had to go after the baker over and over again that nobody would know about otherwise. They could go to Indianapolis for a few days and most likely encounter 0 problems at Gen Con. However, knowing that the state of Indiana does not go along with their deception causes cognitive break. To avoid that interruption of their deception they want to be able to not think about Indiana at all. They cannot attend Gen Con in Indianapolis without being reminded that they are in Indiana, and that Indiana does not support their delusion.

The people suffering from gender dysphoria have my sympathy. I’ve known a couple, and they didn’t go through that for kicks; which is different than the sizable number of creeps jumping onto the label to infiltrate female spaces. They have a need to have their dysphoria supported and reinforced. Where they become totalitarian is when they demand that everyone else support their delusion as well.

I’m more concerned about the “allies” who aren’t suffering from gender dysphoria themselves. It seems like they’re using the transgender community to leverage the public into going along with their 2 + 2 = 5 logic (“transwomen are women”) because they know that if they can get the population to go along with that, then they’ll be able to force people to go along with anything. It’s the technique of the totalitarian ideology of breaking people by turning them into blatant liars.

As to Gen Con leaving Indianapolis they are in a contract to be there through 2030. The current hullabaloo is mere virtue signaling. Even after 2030 it would be extremely difficult for Gen Con to change locations successfully. If they were to try it’s much more likely that they would fail and significantly decrease their revenues if not collapse. The Woke would have a better chance at success turning Indiana purple the next decade. That’d also be a heavy lift, but more likely given the minds of mush the upcoming generations seem to have. About 1/5 of Gen Z are Holocaust deniers, and the trend lines are frightening. We are so screwed.

When I saw "outlaw the existence" I was 99% sure it was trans activists. And yes, empathy for people suffering gender dysphoria, but that isn't a blank check for all this gender identity nonsense that the activists are pushing.

  If I am being 100 percent honest...I had empathy for the condition before....NOW??  I am ok with outlawing existence at least in any way it is recognized legally or socially.  So I think their behavior is having the effect they screech about rather than preventing it.

It's helped me to seperate trans people from trans activism. But yes, I too went from thinking trans was icky, to having some empathy for people with gender dysphoria, to hating trans activism for it's insanity and insistence that we affirm their insanity.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on January 31, 2024, 03:23:53 PM
  I am not one for separating.  I feel sorry for anyone stricken with mental illness, but before I was fine with live and let live.  Now...I do not want your crazy ass anywhere around me or anyone I know.  I guess they can thank their activism for that.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Valatar on January 31, 2024, 04:02:17 PM
User b9anders committed the eternal sin of bringing up the Zak Smith article and recanting his earlier condemnation of him.  Thankfully the ever-vigilant mod team sprang into action, deleting his post in 30 minutes and banning him.  They even censored the ban post to exclude any of his original post from their explanation of why he was banned.  The fact that at least one and probably many of their team was complicit in the original dragging of Zak assuredly had nothing whatsoever to do with this.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on January 31, 2024, 08:54:03 PM
They're on a roll today, lots of permanent bans but four of them are this Quinn guy, I have to admire his tenacity to keep making new accounts and just incrementing.

Also, they're apparently looking at updating the rules to something that actually reflects their moderation practices.  :D

May I suggest a single rule that will solve all the problems?

"All speach is hate speach and is a banning offense, if you post here or anywhere else on the internet you will be permanently banned."
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: zircher on January 31, 2024, 11:03:07 PM
"All speech is hate speech and is a banning offense, if you post here or anywhere else on the internet you will be permanently banned."
"Without order — without an underpinning morality — our actsss would not be jussstice, but mere atrocity. Without the rule of law we would jussst be... ...monsssterssss." -- Judge Death
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: blackstone on February 05, 2024, 07:50:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/KewZHtg.jpg)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on February 06, 2024, 11:03:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/KewZHtg.jpg)

(https://c.tenor.com/2WUEJfc2T1sAAAAC/spider-mastermind-dies-of-cringe.gif)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: blackstone on February 06, 2024, 01:36:33 PM
Oh shit, I killed Grognard GM! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on February 09, 2024, 08:06:32 PM
I notice there's a thread on Tangency discussing sock puppets that may be of some use to those with sock puppets who might be looking for tips on remaining undetected.  I've only had two sock puppets on rpg.net, one that was used to make some trollish comments and slag Ryan Dancy back before D&D 3rd edition came out and one that replaced my original account after I got a death threat this one time.  At least I think that was it, maybe, at the time I also bragged about gettting a death threat.  Anyhow, it's the only place on the internet where I don't use my own name.  It'd take something pretty special to get me to post there again.  Not even direct personal slander or bad reviews of my games (HOLY SHIT!  My game got reviewed!  Impossible!) would do it. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: blackstone on February 23, 2024, 12:15:16 PM
Meanwhile, back at the asylum...

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/docshoveller-infracted-one-day-ban-tasteless-colonialist-jokes.917290/ (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/docshoveller-infracted-one-day-ban-tasteless-colonialist-jokes.917290/)

You can't make a simple joke there and not have it turned into something that's offensive to someone.

This is why comedy is dying.

Furthermore, when reading through their forum policies again, I'm quickly reminded how utterly insane and unaware they are. Unaware of the fact they've become what they most hate and fear: the oppressor.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thornhammer on March 04, 2024, 04:34:04 PM
They got sold? Interesting.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Melan on March 05, 2024, 02:23:48 AM
They got sold, and you guys don't have 300 posts discussing it yet? You lot are getting old.  ;)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 05, 2024, 03:36:22 AM
They got sold, and you guys don't have 300 posts discussing it yet? You lot are getting old.  ;)

Not much to say. Stuff gets sold all the time. If there's any drama, I haven't heard about it yet.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on March 05, 2024, 03:56:54 AM
They got sold, and you guys don't have 300 posts discussing it yet? You lot are getting old.  ;)

Did the buyer pay with magic beans?
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on March 05, 2024, 02:51:54 PM
Who's the buyer?  Is this likely to change any policies.  I must admit I've fantasized about buying them out and spending a year trolling the mods and the attack dogs.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 05, 2024, 03:24:11 PM
Who's the buyer?  Is this likely to change any policies.  I must admit I've fantasized about buying them out and spending a year trolling the mods and the attack dogs.

Quote
1.1: RPGnet is becoming part of RPGMatch.​
@ChristopherA has owned RPGnet since 1999, first through Skotos and then Dyvers Hands.
Christopher will be staying with us as Publisher Emeritus.
As of Friday, February 23rd, Dyvers Hands has transferred RPGnet to RPGMatch, owned by Joaquin Lippincott. (Joaquin’s currently going by @rpgmatch, but may change to a more personal handle.)
RPGMatch is a site for finding groups to play with across platforms and systems. That's generally abbreviated "LFG" from "Looking for Group." The same core idea as Ye Old Tavern, but easier to navigate.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/rpgnet-is-merging-with-rpgmatch-dont-panic-because-its-actually-amazing.917835/
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: GeekyBugle on March 05, 2024, 03:53:04 PM
Who's the buyer?  Is this likely to change any policies.  I must admit I've fantasized about buying them out and spending a year trolling the mods and the attack dogs.

Quote
1.1: RPGnet is becoming part of RPGMatch.​
@ChristopherA has owned RPGnet since 1999, first through Skotos and then Dyvers Hands.
Christopher will be staying with us as Publisher Emeritus.
As of Friday, February 23rd, Dyvers Hands has transferred RPGnet to RPGMatch, owned by Joaquin Lippincott. (Joaquin’s currently going by @rpgmatch, but may change to a more personal handle.)
RPGMatch is a site for finding groups to play with across platforms and systems. That's generally abbreviated "LFG" from "Looking for Group." The same core idea as Ye Old Tavern, but easier to navigate.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/rpgnet-is-merging-with-rpgmatch-dont-panic-because-its-actually-amazing.917835/

It's a match made in Hell:

https://www.rpgmatch.org/community-guidelines/ (https://www.rpgmatch.org/community-guidelines/)
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: steelshadow on March 05, 2024, 04:29:07 PM
I see they've either locked down or removed the infraction forum from public view. Probably to clean stuff up for the new boss.

Pity, I enjoyed reading the latest madness from time to time.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: psiconauta_retro on March 05, 2024, 11:01:58 PM
I see they've either locked down or removed the infraction forum from public view. Probably to clean stuff up for the new boss.

Pity, I enjoyed reading the latest madness from time to time.

This is very sad; it was the only section I would go to, and now it is unavailable...

I understand; they are way too ridiculous and surely they know it. Indeed, the new owners must also be aware of the bad publicity it gives to display their insane moderation publicly.

However, I don't wish to register; it isn't worth it. If anybody here still has access to the infractions, please share them so we can laugh together.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Abbo1993 on March 06, 2024, 08:20:37 AM
Considering their technical ineptitude, I think the infractions will be back eventually, they already tried it once and it didn't stick because they were having problems with it, man, most of the traffic in that place is probably from people that want to have a laugh at it lol.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: RPGer678 on March 09, 2024, 08:01:15 AM
The new owners seem to be of a mind with the old owners, seeing as they're keeping all of the staff, and the former owner as part of the staff.

However.

The new owner wants the site to be the place where the people who matched up for games discuss their games. The games-match site public is more likely to be all over the place politically, and therefore run afoul of the current staff very quickly. The new owner won't be happy if their public starts getting banned from the forums, and some of them walk out.

In short, the new owner's desire to remain profitable and the current staff's practices are very likely on a collision course.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Ratman_tf on March 09, 2024, 02:57:04 PM
The new owner wants the site to be the place where the people who matched up for games discuss their games. The games-match site public is more likely to be all over the place politically, and therefore run afoul of the current staff very quickly. The new owner won't be happy if their public starts getting banned from the forums, and some of them walk out.

This would be amusing to watch.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Melichor on March 09, 2024, 03:26:57 PM
It's a match made in Hell:
https://www.rpgmatch.org/community-guidelines/ (https://www.rpgmatch.org/community-guidelines/)

Signup. The questions are enlightening.

Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: steelshadow on March 09, 2024, 03:59:58 PM
It's a match made in Hell:
https://www.rpgmatch.org/community-guidelines/ (https://www.rpgmatch.org/community-guidelines/)

Signup. The questions are enlightening.

Especially the last one's "are you LGBTQIA+ friendly" having the options only be"yes, I'm part of it", "yes", "I'm not sure" or "it's not a focus"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Aglondir on March 09, 2024, 09:22:00 PM
What a creepy looking logo.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Wntrlnd on March 10, 2024, 03:36:28 AM
What a creepy looking logo.

That's a banner. The logo is in the upper left corner.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: yosemitemike on March 10, 2024, 05:27:11 AM
They are keeping all of the staff.  They are keeping the absurd, insane forum rules.  Nothing is going to change.  They have wanted to hide their unhinged moderation for some time now.  They just couldn't figure out how to do it.  Gee, I wonder why they wouldn't want that to be publicly visible.  Is Fred still banning people for using the phrase sacred cow because he thinks it's vicious racism?  Not just regular racism.  Vicious racism.  Typing such vicious racism gave me the vapours.  I need a lie down. 
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Aglondir on March 12, 2024, 12:02:09 AM
The new owner wants the site to be the place where the people who matched up for games discuss their games. The games-match site public is more likely to be all over the place politically, and therefore run afoul of the current staff very quickly. The new owner won't be happy if their public starts getting banned from the forums, and some of them walk out.

This would be amusing to watch.

It might be even more amusing to make it happen. Tempted to create an account, ask the new owner to fire the mods, then walk out when he doesn't.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: David Johansen on March 12, 2024, 09:19:12 AM
You know, if enough people did it, that might work.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Armchair Gamer on March 12, 2024, 12:38:48 PM
The new owners seem to be of a mind with the old owners, seeing as they're keeping all of the staff, and the former owner as part of the staff.

However.

The new owner wants the site to be the place where the people who matched up for games discuss their games. The games-match site public is more likely to be all over the place politically, and therefore run afoul of the current staff very quickly. The new owner won't be happy if their public starts getting banned from the forums, and some of them walk out.

In short, the new owner's desire to remain profitable and the current staff's practices are very likely on a collision course.

  I don't know; the current claim (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/rpgnet-is-merging-with-rpgmatch-dont-panic-because-its-actually-amazing.917835/post-25108216) is that the new owner is all onboard with the current regime:

Quote from: 'Miss' Atomic Bomb at RPGNet
One of the appeals of getting RPGnet is the vigilance of current moderation. The broad GA protection, the Trump ban, and the explicitly pro-creator stance among them.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: blackstone on March 12, 2024, 01:48:11 PM
The new owners seem to be of a mind with the old owners, seeing as they're keeping all of the staff, and the former owner as part of the staff.

However.

The new owner wants the site to be the place where the people who matched up for games discuss their games. The games-match site public is more likely to be all over the place politically, and therefore run afoul of the current staff very quickly. The new owner won't be happy if their public starts getting banned from the forums, and some of them walk out.

In short, the new owner's desire to remain profitable and the current staff's practices are very likely on a collision course.

  I don't know; the current claim (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/rpgnet-is-merging-with-rpgmatch-dont-panic-because-its-actually-amazing.917835/post-25108216) is that the new owner is all onboard with the current regime:

Quote from: 'Miss' Atomic Bomb at RPGNet
One of the appeals of getting RPGnet is the vigilance of current moderation. The broad GA protection, the Trump ban, and the explicitly pro-creator stance among them.

"meet the new boss! Same as the old boss!"
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thor's Nads on March 12, 2024, 02:30:16 PM
The new owners seem to be of a mind with the old owners, seeing as they're keeping all of the staff, and the former owner as part of the staff.


We'll see. It is common in a takeover/merger/buyout for the new regime to play nicey-nice in the beginning until the can assess who is useful and who is dead weight. Then the axe falls.

We can only hope, but honestly it is hard to see how it can be any worse than the current moderation and climate over there. Then again, communists somehow always find a new bottom to their inhuman psychopathic ideology.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: oggsmash on March 12, 2024, 03:01:01 PM
 Strange a gaming forum thinks it is such a great thing to ban a president or talk of him considering HALF THE COUNTRY supports him.  These people are delusional.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Grognard GM on March 12, 2024, 03:13:35 PM
Strange a gaming forum thinks it is such a great thing to ban a president or talk of him considering HALF THE COUNTRY supports him.  These people are delusional.

The 'Far Right' is a terrifying mass on the brink of overthrowing the nation, or an insignificant tiny group of losers in mom's basement, depending on what the narrative requires. Much like women are badasses worthy of Special Forces and SWAT, while simultaneously needing Victorian levels of special treatment and protections.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: rytrasmi on March 12, 2024, 05:47:18 PM
LOL that thread. Those people are insane.

Containment. It's the best we can do. Contain them over there, so we can keep track of them. Like sheep or hamsters or such. They have their little dystopia and people with an iota of self-respect will figure out how it works and will leave.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Man at Arms on March 12, 2024, 10:59:34 PM
LOL that thread. Those people are insane.

Containment. It's the best we can do. Contain them over there, so we can keep track of them. Like sheep or hamsters or such. They have their little dystopia and people with an iota of self-respect will figure out how it works and will leave.

Yes. Your IQ goes up, when you leave the Big Purple.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on March 13, 2024, 05:06:10 PM
I see they've either locked down or removed the infraction forum from public view. Probably to clean stuff up for the new boss.

Pity, I enjoyed reading the latest madness from time to time.

Yup, a guy I know who is still active on there says they've hidden it....kinda like Tangency.
Title: Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
Post by: Trond on March 15, 2024, 12:54:52 AM
Strange a gaming forum thinks it is such a great thing to ban a president or talk of him considering HALF THE COUNTRY supports him.  These people are delusional.

The 'Far Right' is a terrifying mass on the brink of overthrowing the nation, or an insignificant tiny group of losers in mom's basement, depending on what the narrative requires. Much like women are badasses worthy of Special Forces and SWAT, while simultaneously needing Victorian levels of special treatment and protections.

That sums it up nicely.
Women are also sexually aggressive......but don't you dare look at them and find them sexy.