RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)

[jhkim]

The conclusion reached was that the GBLT community was accepted by the majority of society, but the fringe elements were going to end up dragging the rest down out of acceptance. People don't like paedo grooming for kids by ANY sexuality. People don't like trans athletes competing in women's sports. People don't like wedding industry small business being targetted for life destroying lawsuits over their religious beliefs. The GBLT community is about to fuck up and surrender any ground it may have gained socially because of all this. In all seriousness, by advocating for this horrendous bullshit you are hurting your own cause.

As someone who was not here for that discussion, I want to point out the fatal flaw in that conclusion; "accepted" is undefined and ripe for equivocation in both directions. If you think that conclusion will stand the test of time, you're fooling yourself; the very nature of these discussions is a slippery slope.

So advocating for historically offensive and alienating fringe elements of the GBLT movement is the best way to win friends and influence people? You better start studying because you have a lot to learn.

I'm not even exactly sure what you're saying here. I take by inference that you think I'm supporting pedophilic gay people?

I'm hugely opposed to *actual* pedophiles - both gay pedophiles and straight pedophiles. However, I disagree that gay people are generally pedophiles and that young kids need to be kept safe from gay people in particular. Calling gay people pedophiles isn't some new backlash that only happened because LGBT advocates went too far in the 2020's. This is the same accusation that happened back in the 1990s when there was uproar whenever a teacher was found to be gay.

In my opinion, one of the best ways to protect kids from pedophiles is to teach kids to report pedophiles to the authorities. Child abuse can happen in a lot of places - and indeed, it happens at home just as frequently as at school, church, or other activities. Kids should be taught repeatedly in all these places that "bad touch" is wrong, and to report it.

Making it illegal to talk about gay pedophilia doesn't protect kids from it. Actual pedophiles won't stop doing it just because it's illegal, because sexual abuse of kids is already illegal. What we need are better ways to catch the perpetrators.

[jeff37923]

The conclusion reached was that the GBLT community was accepted by the majority of society, but the fringe elements were going to end up dragging the rest down out of acceptance. People don't like paedo grooming for kids by ANY sexuality. People don't like trans athletes competing in women's sports. People don't like wedding industry small business being targetted for life destroying lawsuits over their religious beliefs. The GBLT community is about to fuck up and surrender any ground it may have gained socially because of all this. In all seriousness, by advocating for this horrendous bullshit you are hurting your own cause.

As someone who was not here for that discussion, I want to point out the fatal flaw in that conclusion; "accepted" is undefined and ripe for equivocation in both directions. If you think that conclusion will stand the test of time, you're fooling yourself; the very nature of these discussions is a slippery slope.

So advocating for historically offensive and alienating fringe elements of the GBLT movement is the best way to win friends and influence people? You better start studying because you have a lot to learn.

I'm not even exactly sure what you're saying here. I take by inference that you think I'm supporting pedophilic gay people?

I'm hugely opposed to *actual* pedophiles - both gay pedophiles and straight pedophiles. However, I disagree that gay people are generally pedophiles and that young kids need to be kept safe from gay people in particular. Calling gay people pedophiles isn't some new backlash that only happened because LGBT advocates went too far in the 2020's. This is the same accusation that happened back in the 1990s when there was uproar whenever a teacher was found to be gay.

In my opinion, one of the best ways to protect kids from pedophiles is to teach kids to report pedophiles to the authorities. Child abuse can happen in a lot of places - and indeed, it happens at home just as frequently as at school, church, or other activities. Kids should be taught repeatedly in all these places that "bad touch" is wrong, and to report it.

Making it illegal to talk about gay pedophilia doesn't protect kids from it. Actual pedophiles won't stop doing it just because it's illegal, because sexual abuse of kids is already illegal. What we need are better ways to catch the perpetrators.

No inference about it. By opposing the Florida bill in such an outrageous manner by inaccurately portraying what is in the bill itself, opponents of the bill are making it easier for pedophilic grooming (gay, straight, or vegasexual) to occur in schools AND you are setting your championed GBLT social goals back by decades. Knock it off! You aren't helping!

You are a parent, did you want people talking to your kids about sex/gender before you did?

[jhkim]

By opposing the Florida bill in such an outrageous manner by inaccurately portraying what is in the bill itself, opponents of the bill are making it easier for pedophilic grooming (gay, straight, or vegasexual) to occur in schools AND you are setting your championed GBLT social goals back by decades. Knock it off! You aren't helping!

You are a parent, did you want people talking to your kids about sex/gender before you did?

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.

I suspect you mean something different by "talking about sex/gender" - I guess you're thinking something more like middle or high school sex ed, but honestly, I'm not sure.

[David Johansen]

Kids will hear it on the playground before it's ever discussed at home.

It's a moot point.

Silence always serves the predators.  Always watch who's screaming for people to be silenced.  Ignorance makes for a fertile hunting ground.

[oggsmash]

  I missed where the school was pushing not talking about abuse or danger, or being touched inappropriately.  Which is of course the first responsibility of the parents, not the school.  Silence?  Did you guys read the bill?  You do not discuss issues AS PART OF CLASSROOM DISCUSSION around sexuality or gender to kids K-3.   This topic never came up when I was in grades K-3...did something happen  where we need to go into great detail around gay rights and butt sex to little kids now?   

   Kids will have their own discussions, especially in public school where a sizeable portion of the enrolled are little more than booger eating mouth breathers.    So what?  I am sure the Florida bill had a whole lot more to do with shit like pledging allegiance to the LGBT flag at summer camp and a number (which I also think is a tiny minority) of activists posing as teachers championing and celebrating being gay.  This is a behavior and lifestyle that is outside the norm, fringe behavior that is heavily affected by the environment of the person practicing it.  Likely strongly influenced by the persons early life.  I know the activist sorts know that.  I think that is the reason for the breathless outrage, people who can not reproduce, must recruit. 

[jeff37923]

By opposing the Florida bill in such an outrageous manner by inaccurately portraying what is in the bill itself, opponents of the bill are making it easier for pedophilic grooming (gay, straight, or vegasexual) to occur in schools AND you are setting your championed GBLT social goals back by decades. Knock it off! You aren't helping!

You are a parent, did you want people talking to your kids about sex/gender before you did?

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.

I suspect you mean something different by "talking about sex/gender" - I guess you're thinking something more like middle or high school sex ed, but honestly, I'm not sure.

OK, so if you can figure out the subject matter I'm talking about (including the grade/age range during which discussion is relevant), then you must acknowledge that most of that discussion is not relevant for children in the K-3rd grade.

And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

[jeff37923]

...


Groomers leaving the profession of teaching? How terrible!

[jhkim]

And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

Fuck you, jeff. What I said to Dellaforno's friend is that we're a bunch of assholes here - which is exactly the same thing I say to your face. Most of us here will proudly admit to that. I didn't say anything on Facebook that I don't say here.

The only thing I said just now was that I had gay friends - so you're claiming that having gay friends is being "woke". But I know plenty of libertarian or even conservative folks who have gay friends, or are gay themselves. You can accuse me of being woke over other things, but being gay or having gay friends doesn't mean that someone is woke.

Meanwhile, you're acting as if the Florida bill prevents explicit sex ed in grades K-3, but that's not what the bill does. It allows any degree of sex ed to kids, as long as it's hetero sex. What it does is ban any discussion of gayness. And my position is there's nothing inappropriate to kids in K-3 about stuff like marriage, parents, growing up, and similar.

[jeff37923]

And fuck you and you're bullshit virtue signalling about how delightfully woke your family is. You know why? Because you are the same hypocritical twat who posted on Dellaforno's Facebook page to declare about how you posted here to troll us neanderthals in an effort to show much of a social justice warrior you were.

I'm not buying it. You perfectly understand what I'm saying. You just don't want to look at the reality of the situation because an honest appraisal of it will destroy your outlook on fighting for the cause using these tactics.

Fuck you, jeff. What I said to Dellaforno's friend is that we're a bunch of assholes here - which is exactly the same thing I say to your face. Most of us here will proudly admit to that. I didn't say anything on Facebook that I don't say here.

The only thing I said just now was that I had gay friends - so you're claiming that having gay friends is being "woke". But I know plenty of libertarian or even conservative folks who have gay friends, or are gay themselves. You can accuse me of being woke over other things, but being gay or having gay friends doesn't mean that someone is woke.

Bullshit.

My son learned about gender before he could speak, like all kids as far as I know. He knew that there was male and female, and had to learn appropriate pronouns as part of speaking. During the process of learning to speak, he also learned traditional classification of people as boys or girls, men or women, based on their appearance.

He was also exposed to stories of romantic love well before kindergarten - like in movies, picture books, and TV. We had brought him to two weddings I think before he was in 1st grade - his aunt's and a friend's. He was ringbearer for his aunt. So he knew about love, romance, and marriage. The friend's wedding was a same-sex wedding, so he knew that two women could get married (though it had no legal meaning at the time). After he got to elementary school, he made a friend whose parents were lesbians - so he also knew through that.

Is you using your son as a standard bearer to impress upon the reader how socially just your son has been raised by you. It is virtue signalling at its lowest and is woke as Hell.

Meanwhile, you're acting as if the Florida bill prevents explicit sex ed in grades K-3, but that's not what the bill does. It allows any degree of sex ed to kids, as long as it's hetero sex. What it does is ban any discussion of gayness. And my position is there's nothing inappropriate to kids in K-3 about stuff like marriage, parents, growing up, and similar.

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

[DocJones]

I think teaching about specifically LGBT civil rights is an issue under the bill. How could one teach about Harvey Milk or Jim Obergefell or other key figures of LGBT civil rights without talking about sexual orientation?

No it's not an issue, because K-3 graders should be taught reading, writing and arithmetic.
Harvey Milk has zero historical relevance.  None whatsoever.  Zero.  Nada. 
Jim Obergefell has as much relevance as Jane Roe.  In other words perhaps legally interesting to high school or college students.
But to K-3 no freaking way.  Takes time away from REAL important  historical figures
like Christopher Columbus and George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Edison, etc.

[Eirikrautha]

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

This is the same guy who right above said being gay has nothing to do with sex.  Why are you surprised...?

[jeff37923]

Wow. It is like you have not bothered to read the Florida bill at all and are just making shit up. Why don't you try reading the bill?

Or, better yet, since you think that readers are stupid, show us the exact wording in the Florida bill where it only allows the teaching of hetero sex ed to kids grade K-3 and demands that people "don't say gay". Can you do that at least?

This is the same guy who right above said being gay has nothing to do with sex.  Why are you surprised...?

I know. It's like trying to nail jell-o to a wall.

[BoxCrayonTales]

I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?

First of all, the clause in question has nothing about parental consent. Those topics are banned in school regardless of whether parents give consent or not.

If that clause were about parental permission, would that apply equally to straight sexuality? So could gay parents block any instruction on straight relationships to their kids? So, if a class includes how George Washington was married to Martha Washington, they can sue to prevent that being said? And they could prevent Snow White or Sleeping Beauty from being read?

I think no one here would support that. Because straight sexuality is discussed all the time in K-3, in fiction, history, and civics. The standard that the law encourages is that straight relationships like Snow White or George Washington's marriage are perfectly acceptable topics for young kids, but gay relationships are considered inappropriate.

jhkim, just stop it.

Years ago, on this very forum, these topics were discussed. The conclusion reached was that the GBLT community was accepted by the majority of society, but the fringe elements were going to end up dragging the rest down out of acceptance. People don't like paedo grooming for kids by ANY sexuality. People don't like trans athletes competing in women's sports. People don't like wedding industry small business being targetted for life destroying lawsuits over their religious beliefs. The GBLT community is about to fuck up and surrender any ground it may have gained socially because of all this. In all seriousness, by advocating for this horrendous bullshit you are hurting your own cause.

As someone who was not here for that discussion, I want to point out the fatal flaw in that conclusion; "accepted" is undefined and ripe for equivocation in both directions. If you think that conclusion will stand the test of time, you're fooling yourself; the very nature of these discussions is a slippery slope.

So advocating for historically offensive and alienating fringe elements of the GBLT movement is the best way to win friends and influence people? You better start studying because you have a lot to learn.

As someone who used to laugh at the slippery slope "falacy", who has gay and lesbian family memebers and who would hate to see the tolerance achieved in the west set back 20+ years due to the lefts love of the anormal and their push for normalizing pedophilia and grooming children both into transitioning and into their cult I'm angry as all fuck against these idiots and the cowards in the GLB "T" communities for not speaking against this.

Not all are cowards. The TERFs are constantly speaking out against this stuff but the MSM refuses to cover them for obvious reasons.

[GeekyBugle]

Kids will hear it on the playground before it's ever discussed at home.

It's a moot point.

Silence always serves the predators.  Always watch who's screaming for people to be silenced.  Ignorance makes for a fertile hunting ground.

Kids will talk with their peers therefore it's perfectly fine to allow the teachers to have secret sexual chats with the children and to instruct them not to tell their parents...

And if you disagree you're enabling pedophilia...

WTAFF!?

[GeekyBugle]

I have a simple question: Even if the law did prohibit teachers from talking about gay people, so what? What's wrong with saying "you should ask your parents?" Why can't parents set ground rules when they hire strangers to teach their children?

First of all, the clause in question has nothing about parental consent. Those topics are banned in school regardless of whether parents give consent or not.

If that clause were about parental permission, would that apply equally to straight sexuality? So could gay parents block any instruction on straight relationships to their kids? So, if a class includes how George Washington was married to Martha Washington, they can sue to prevent that being said? And they could prevent Snow White or Sleeping Beauty from being read?

I think no one here would support that. Because straight sexuality is discussed all the time in K-3, in fiction, history, and civics. The standard that the law encourages is that straight relationships like Snow White or George Washington's marriage are perfectly acceptable topics for young kids, but gay relationships are considered inappropriate.

jhkim, just stop it.

Years ago, on this very forum, these topics were discussed. The conclusion reached was that the GBLT community was accepted by the majority of society, but the fringe elements were going to end up dragging the rest down out of acceptance. People don't like paedo grooming for kids by ANY sexuality. People don't like trans athletes competing in women's sports. People don't like wedding industry small business being targetted for life destroying lawsuits over their religious beliefs. The GBLT community is about to fuck up and surrender any ground it may have gained socially because of all this. In all seriousness, by advocating for this horrendous bullshit you are hurting your own cause.

As someone who was not here for that discussion, I want to point out the fatal flaw in that conclusion; "accepted" is undefined and ripe for equivocation in both directions. If you think that conclusion will stand the test of time, you're fooling yourself; the very nature of these discussions is a slippery slope.

So advocating for historically offensive and alienating fringe elements of the GBLT movement is the best way to win friends and influence people? You better start studying because you have a lot to learn.

As someone who used to laugh at the slippery slope "falacy", who has gay and lesbian family memebers and who would hate to see the tolerance achieved in the west set back 20+ years due to the lefts love of the anormal and their push for normalizing pedophilia and grooming children both into transitioning and into their cult I'm angry as all fuck against these idiots and the cowards in the GLB "T" communities for not speaking against this.

Not all are cowards. The TERFs are constantly speaking out against this stuff but the MSM refuses to cover them for obvious reasons.

The TERFs only started speaking about it because it impacted them. You also have people like Blaire White. But notice my redaction, I'm not saying that all are, just calling out the ones who are.