Reconciliation

[Ratman_tf]

I'm still waiting for one of these centrists to give me an example of the last time Leftists ever actually compromised with anybody.  I mean REAL compromise (I give a little, you give a little), not their definition of compromise, which is "everything will go my way and you will shut up and sit down and like it."

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

Attempted gaslighting, again. 20 yard penalty. Surrender the ball to the opposite team. First down.

It's not an attempt and it's not subtle. You are fucking crazy Jeff I still love you despite your obvious insanity.

You post shit like this and then say that you aren't trying to gaslight people into believing your lies.

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

This is just more of the same schtick you always pull.

Yes Jeff, it is. My schtick is telling hard truths.

Your schtick is arguing with people on the internet, just like everyone else here.

[jeff37923]

I'm still waiting for one of these centrists to give me an example of the last time Leftists ever actually compromised with anybody.  I mean REAL compromise (I give a little, you give a little), not their definition of compromise, which is "everything will go my way and you will shut up and sit down and like it."

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

Attempted gaslighting, again. 20 yard penalty. Surrender the ball to the opposite team. First down.

It's not an attempt and it's not subtle. You are fucking crazy Jeff I still love you despite your obvious insanity.

You post shit like this and then say that you aren't trying to gaslight people into believing your lies.

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

This is just more of the same schtick you always pull.

My schtick is telling hard truths.

Oh? Then please provide the proof upon which your "hard truths" are based. Show us how you have arrived at your "hard truths" conclusions. Convince us.

[Thor's Nads]

-To the right wing first, you have to realize that Trump is a divisive figure, quite possibly too divisive.

We are well of this, speaking as someone who leans right and couldn't stand Trump at first. But he was literally the only person that stood up against the Left wing mob that has taken over America while the Republican party cowers in the corner begging Left wing media to not call them bigots and racists and homophobes. I became more amenable to Trump after his first term. The shenanigans that went on to make sure he wasn't re-elected has made me deeply suspicious of our institutions, to the point of resentment.

[Brad]

We are well of this, speaking as someone who leans right and couldn't stand Trump at first. But he was literally the only person that stood up against the Left wing mob that has taken over America while the Republican party cowers in the corner begging Left wing media to not call them bigots and racists and homophobes. I became more amenable to Trump after his first term. The shenanigans that went on to make sure he wasn't re-elected has made me deeply suspicious of our institutions, to the point of resentment.

No, sorry, you're not a disenfranchised voter. Only leftists who support corrupt Democrats get to say that, especially minorities too stupid to obtain any sort of identification to combat obvious voter fraud.

[I]

I don't agree there was a generic "old style" where the destination was agreed on. There have been less contentious periods in American history than now, when people were closer to agreement. However, there have also been more contentious periods, like the Civil War period or the 1960s.

I don't think that in the 1960s the segregationists and the anti-segregationists agreed on the destination. They were more fundamentally opposed. Likewise, the unions and socialists were fundamentally opposed to the radical anti-communists like McCarthy.

After the 1960s, the more radical leftists as exemplified by the Black Panther party and the Weather Underground lost influence. On the other hand, the segregationists also lost influence - and more radical anti-communist figures like McCarthy and Nixon lost influence. I'm not sure one can say they were "utterly destroyed". I'm not sure what you mean by those.

You act like the divisions of the 1860s and the 1960s were somehow healed by everybody getting together peacefully and hammering out their differences in a give-take situation. 

The 1860s ended in the military destruction and occupation of the South by the North.  The situation got fixed by battlefield victories.  The Reconstruction period ended because Northeners got tired of trying to enforce it, especially since their real goals of (a) keeping the cotton fields in the Union (cotton was to 19th Century economies what oil is to economies today),  (b) keeping white Southerners under their thumb so they could exploit other Southern resources and draw from the Southern male population to feed their armies, and (c) freeing the slaves, then passing laws to keep them from migrating North (which worked until the U.S. entered WW I).  The only thing the North gave away to gain this was the lives of its soldiers, and that was hardly due to peaceful negotiation.

The 1960s divisions ended, again, because the federal government got its way.  The FBI broke up the Klan as a serious force, and radical Leftist groups, while the FBI did arrest some of them, basically faded away because their goals were met: an end to the draft, preferential hiring for minorities, an increase in the welfare state, their ideological allies gaining control of the media and educational institutions, etc.  Back of the federal government winning all this was the threat of force, unnecessary to use this time because the South had zero chance of getting its way (the nullification of Federal voting laws).  Of course, today we have liberal states and cities nullifying Federal immigration laws and getting away with it and the Feds don't even push back, even when Republicans are in office.  Trump tried, and you see what happened to him.

And that's how the current divisions are going to be fixed:  the differing parties will go their own ways peacefully, or there will be a forced solution by the stronger side.

[Mistwell]

I'm still waiting for one of these centrists to give me an example of the last time Leftists ever actually compromised with anybody.  I mean REAL compromise (I give a little, you give a little), not their definition of compromise, which is "everything will go my way and you will shut up and sit down and like it."

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

Attempted gaslighting, again. 20 yard penalty. Surrender the ball to the opposite team. First down.

It's not an attempt and it's not subtle. You are fucking crazy Jeff I still love you despite your obvious insanity.

You post shit like this and then say that you aren't trying to gaslight people into believing your lies.

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

This is just more of the same schtick you always pull.

Yes Jeff, it is. My schtick is telling hard truths.

Your schtick is arguing with people on the internet, just like everyone else here.

Also true!

[Mistwell]

I'm still waiting for one of these centrists to give me an example of the last time Leftists ever actually compromised with anybody.  I mean REAL compromise (I give a little, you give a little), not their definition of compromise, which is "everything will go my way and you will shut up and sit down and like it."

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

Attempted gaslighting, again. 20 yard penalty. Surrender the ball to the opposite team. First down.

It's not an attempt and it's not subtle. You are fucking crazy Jeff I still love you despite your obvious insanity.

You post shit like this and then say that you aren't trying to gaslight people into believing your lies.

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

This is just more of the same schtick you always pull.

My schtick is telling hard truths.

Oh? Then please provide the proof upon which your "hard truths" are based. Show us how you have arrived at your "hard truths" conclusions. Convince us.

You're not convincible if it comes from me.  I could tell you the sky is blue and you'd call me a liar instinctively.

I do wonder what would happen if I started to say Traveler is a great game.

[Thor's Nads]

The 1960s divisions ended, again, because the federal government got its way.

News alert. The divisions of the 1960's never went away. That generation is now in power and is making America even more divisive. Like all communists nothing is ever enough until everything conforms and is subservient to The Party. And America is becoming a one party state. The Left controls the institutions, education, the media, and the government. This is why Trump freaked them out so much, it was the first time in decades that a major power didn't cow tow to them on everything. Kind of like what Elon is doing right now. But both those guys keep giving in to the Left's demands.

One day we'll get an Augusto Pinochet or a Francisco Franco, or maybe even a Napoleon or a Julius Caesar. It will be both great and terrible.

[jeff37923]

I'm still waiting for one of these centrists to give me an example of the last time Leftists ever actually compromised with anybody.  I mean REAL compromise (I give a little, you give a little), not their definition of compromise, which is "everything will go my way and you will shut up and sit down and like it."

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

Attempted gaslighting, again. 20 yard penalty. Surrender the ball to the opposite team. First down.

It's not an attempt and it's not subtle. You are fucking crazy Jeff I still love you despite your obvious insanity.

You post shit like this and then say that you aren't trying to gaslight people into believing your lies.

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

This is just more of the same schtick you always pull.

My schtick is telling hard truths.

Oh? Then please provide the proof upon which your "hard truths" are based. Show us how you have arrived at your "hard truths" conclusions. Convince us.

You're not convincible if it comes from me.  I could tell you the sky is blue and you'd call me a liar instinctively.

Then you have nothing. Your justifications can be summed up by saying that you like team sports and you like team blue. Thanks for the confirmation.

I do wonder what would happen if I started to say Traveler is a great game.

Nothing.
Just "starting to" to say something is meaningless because if you would have the courage of your convictions, then you would just say it.

[I]

The 1960s divisions ended, again, because the federal government got its way.

News alert. The divisions of the 1960's never went away. That generation is now in power and is making America even more divisive. Like all communists nothing is ever enough until everything conforms and is subservient to The Party. And America is becoming a one party state. The Left controls the institutions, education, the media, and the government. This is why Trump freaked them out so much, it was the first time in decades that a major power didn't cow tow to them on everything. Kind of like what Elon is doing right now. But both those guys keep giving in to the Left's demands.

One day we'll get an Augusto Pinochet or a Francisco Franco, or maybe even a Napoleon or a Julius Caesar. It will be both great and terrible.

You are correct that the divisions of the 1960s never went away, and really in everything else you said.  I misspoke.  I should have said that the more radical elements, like the Black Panthers and the Weather Underground lost influence because they basically got their way.  The Weather Underground also murdered some people and attempted terrorist bombings, IIRC, which was a step too far for even the elements in the government and media that were sympathetic to them.  My main point to jhkim was that nothing got solved by liberals and conservatives agreeing on anything -- the Left basically just got its way, and the Right backed down.

[Mistwell]

I'm still waiting for one of these centrists to give me an example of the last time Leftists ever actually compromised with anybody.  I mean REAL compromise (I give a little, you give a little), not their definition of compromise, which is "everything will go my way and you will shut up and sit down and like it."

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

Attempted gaslighting, again. 20 yard penalty. Surrender the ball to the opposite team. First down.

It's not an attempt and it's not subtle. You are fucking crazy Jeff I still love you despite your obvious insanity.

You post shit like this and then say that you aren't trying to gaslight people into believing your lies.

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

This is just more of the same schtick you always pull.

My schtick is telling hard truths.

Oh? Then please provide the proof upon which your "hard truths" are based. Show us how you have arrived at your "hard truths" conclusions. Convince us.

You're not convincible if it comes from me.  I could tell you the sky is blue and you'd call me a liar instinctively.

Then you have nothing. Your justifications can be summed up by saying that you like team sports and you like team blue. Thanks for the confirmation.

I do wonder what would happen if I started to say Traveler is a great game.

Nothing.
Just "starting to" to say something is meaningless because if you would have the courage of your convictions, then you would just say it.

But if I say Traveler is a great game it might put you in the awkward position of instinctively feeling like you must disagree with me. And like I said I love you man. I don't want to do that to you.

[jeff37923]

I'm still waiting for one of these centrists to give me an example of the last time Leftists ever actually compromised with anybody.  I mean REAL compromise (I give a little, you give a little), not their definition of compromise, which is "everything will go my way and you will shut up and sit down and like it."

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

Attempted gaslighting, again. 20 yard penalty. Surrender the ball to the opposite team. First down.

It's not an attempt and it's not subtle. You are fucking crazy Jeff I still love you despite your obvious insanity.

You post shit like this and then say that you aren't trying to gaslight people into believing your lies.

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

This is just more of the same schtick you always pull.

My schtick is telling hard truths.

Oh? Then please provide the proof upon which your "hard truths" are based. Show us how you have arrived at your "hard truths" conclusions. Convince us.

You're not convincible if it comes from me.  I could tell you the sky is blue and you'd call me a liar instinctively.

Then you have nothing. Your justifications can be summed up by saying that you like team sports and you like team blue. Thanks for the confirmation.

I do wonder what would happen if I started to say Traveler is a great game.

Nothing.
Just "starting to" to say something is meaningless because if you would have the courage of your convictions, then you would just say it.

But if I say Traveler is a great game it might put you in the awkward position of instinctively feeling like you must disagree with me. And like I said I love you man. I don't want to do that to you.

*snerk*
You'd have to get the correct spelling first since as is, you are talking about an insurance company.  Which just goes to show that you know fuck all about what you are talking, again.

[Thor's Nads]

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.

Bwahahahahaa. I nearly split a gut when I read that. There are not centrists in the Democrat party.

The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

If by centrist you mean Republicans who roll over and cower whenever the Liberal media calls them out as bigots, homophobes, nazis whenever they don't go along with the Democrat party, then yeah I guess the GOP is full of centrists.

Did you know the GOP abandoned the Trump endorsed candidates in the midterms and starved them of resources, virtually ensuring their Democrat opponent would win? Even then it is remarkable how well they did when outspent 100 to 1 or more!

[Mistwell]

I'm still waiting for one of these centrists to give me an example of the last time Leftists ever actually compromised with anybody.  I mean REAL compromise (I give a little, you give a little), not their definition of compromise, which is "everything will go my way and you will shut up and sit down and like it."

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

Attempted gaslighting, again. 20 yard penalty. Surrender the ball to the opposite team. First down.

It's not an attempt and it's not subtle. You are fucking crazy Jeff I still love you despite your obvious insanity.

You post shit like this and then say that you aren't trying to gaslight people into believing your lies.

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.
The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

The "leftists" whoa are the progressives will not compromise anymore than the Trumpers will compromise. The rest however are compromising with each other.

And I know, from the perspective of a Trumper everyone who isn't a Trumper is a leftist or RINO. Much like form the perspective of a progressive anyone who isn't a progressive is a Trumper or a DINO. Which is why you think everyone either thinks like you or is a leftist or traitor or whatever. Your view of politics itself has more in common with a progressive than with a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat. Extremists are similar to Extremists on certain ways of viewing things.

This is just more of the same schtick you always pull.

My schtick is telling hard truths.

Oh? Then please provide the proof upon which your "hard truths" are based. Show us how you have arrived at your "hard truths" conclusions. Convince us.

You're not convincible if it comes from me.  I could tell you the sky is blue and you'd call me a liar instinctively.

Then you have nothing. Your justifications can be summed up by saying that you like team sports and you like team blue. Thanks for the confirmation.

I do wonder what would happen if I started to say Traveler is a great game.

Nothing.
Just "starting to" to say something is meaningless because if you would have the courage of your convictions, then you would just say it.

But if I say Traveler is a great game it might put you in the awkward position of instinctively feeling like you must disagree with me. And like I said I love you man. I don't want to do that to you.

*snerk*
You'd have to get the correct spelling first since as is, you are talking about an insurance company.  Which just goes to show that you know fuck all about what you are talking, again.

See that's the spirit!

[Mistwell]

The Democratic party has lots of centrists. Most of their progressives have not been doing so good.

Bwahahahahaa. I nearly split a gut when I read that. There are not centrists in the Democrat party.

The Republican party now has more centrists. Most of their Trumpers have not been doing so good.

If by centrist you mean Republicans who roll over and cower whenever the Liberal media calls them out as bigots, homophobes, nazis whenever they don't go along with the Democrat party, then yeah I guess the GOP is full of centrists.

Did you know the GOP abandoned the Trump endorsed candidates in the midterms and starved them of resources, virtually ensuring their Democrat opponent would win? Even then it is remarkable how well they did when outspent 100 to 1 or more!

Oh, Trumpers were depending on the old time GOP party machine to win and without them they cannot win? Good to know. I mean, goes completely against the entire Trumper message and the draining the swamp and whole propaganda schtick, but good to know privately Trumpers think they do depend on the traditional GOP party machine. I guess it's all been a bunch of talk all along...at least out of one side of your mouths.

And yes, the Democratic party is not unified and has centrists. Heck, for all she is vilified, Pelosi is nothing like AOC.