2020 Election Commentary

[Tubesock Army]

That's horseshit. Trump specifically denigrated McCain's service ("I like guys who weren't captured"), and by extension the service of every POW. It wasn't a policy dispute. Diaper Donnie got his rich father to buy his way out of military service. Then he had the fucking temerity to cast aspersions on someone who didn't rely on a well connected father to avoid service, or even to get released from a fucking POW camp where he was routinely being tortured, though he had the opportunity to do so. This isn't like telling someone they "look good for their age". Its not a Freudian slip or an inelegant turn of phrase. Trump is really just a flaming sack of dog shit.

[SHARK]

That's horseshit. Trump specifically denigrated McCain's service ("I like guys who weren't captured"), and by extension the service of every POW. It wasn't a policy dispute. Diaper Donnie got his rich father to buy his way out of military service. Then he had the fucking temerity to cast aspersions on someone who didn't rely on a well connected father to avoid service, or even to get released from a fucking POW camp where he was routinely being tortured, though he had the opportunity to do so. This isn't like telling someone they "look good for their age". Its not a Freudian slip or an inelegant turn of phrase. Trump is really just a flaming sack of dog shit.

Greetings!

Well, I disagree. My opinions are not horseshit.

On another note, it is always good when cock-sucking Marxist Democrats are choked with dogshit.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[SHARK]

Greetings!

President Trump holds a fantastic rally in Georgia!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[Mistwell]

Greetings!

Well, I disagree. My opinions are not horseshit.

On another note, it is always good when cock-sucking Marxist Democrats are choked with dogshit.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

No my man, that is not an adequate response by any means. Trump attacking McCain for BEING A POW is not a policy dispute. Trump attacking McCain for being a POW is not about his disagreement with McCain on policy issues and thinking he was a Republican in Name Only. Trump attacking McCain for being a POW makes Trump a fucking piece of shit because he attacked all POWs when he did that. And given Trump did in fact dodge the draft by use of daddy's money, you as a Marine should be willing to hold Trump accountable for that rather than make excuses like he shouldn't have given that opinion.

No SHARK, it's not that Trump shouldn't have let that slip, it's that Trump actually thinking that should call into question Trump as a human being. Because decent human beings don't think being a POW is some moral failing. And decent human beings don't use their dad's money to dodge the military while bashing anyone in the military FOR THEIR SERVICE.

How can you sink so low as to try and deflect on that particular issue?

[rawma]

Part of the problem is that the media have become utterly unreliable, and I'd argue worse so on the left, which I used to follow more than the right. Most leftists seem oblivious to it, while right-wingers are so aware of it that they are skeptical to anything that doesn't "feel right" to them, because they are constantly being lied to (and by Republicans too by the way). I have debated people on a left-leaning forum, and they had no clue that Trump supporters had been murdered in the protests, that George Floyd had breathing problems before he was put on the ground, or that he had previously committed armed robbery of a pregnant woman. Or indeed that the Democrats, in trying to expose Russian collusion had been going after an informant for CIA, i.e. he was helping the US intelligence against the Russians. That was actually when the collusion story fell apart, but most leftists don't know that it ever did.

The willingness on the right to believe just about anything is much greater, but the left is not immune to false information.

Trump supporters killed at protests? I was aware of one in Portland, and that the perpetrator was later shot by police (and that Donald Trump extolled this as a good and even intended result). I was unaware of the one in Denver on October 10. There have been more killings of BLM protesters, and the murderer in Kenosha became a hero of Trumpies.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled

The only breathing problem of George Floyd I was aware of was recovering from Covid-19, which he reportedly informed the police arresting him of. I was aware that he had criminal convictions although not in much detail but he had apparently turned his life around since release from prison in 2013. He allegedly passed a counterfeit $20 bill at a store and it seems possible that, having lost his job because of the pandemic, he committed that crime but also possible that he was unaware the bill was counterfeit. Do you think that any of this justifies killing George Floyd?

Your last comment about collusion investigations compromising a CIA informant, or even just that the collusion story fell apart, is going to need some links.

[rawma]

Another thing that people are ignoring is that there were a fair amount of Republicans who voted for Trump in 2016, who did not vote for him in 2020. When megadonors like Sheldon Adelson are turning their back on Trump, you kmow he's in Trouble. And Steve Bannon himself (he's a criminal scumbag, yes, but he's also a shrewd political operative, by any estimation) said that groups like The Lincoln Project would only need to peel away 3 or 4 percent of Trump voters in order to deny him a 2020 win. In the end, I think Republicans had a lot to do with Trump's defeat. I think there were a lot of R's who either aren't evangelicals, or who gritted their teeth and voted for Trump on the economy and judgeships. Many of these have turned on him because of the direct negative impact this administration's inept Coronavirus response has had on the economy. Well, that and "scandal fatigue". The Lincoln Project is not an anomaly. There are a lot of R's who voted for their party's nominee, hoping that he would at least make an attempt to rise to the challenges of his office. The difference between these voters and the MAGA crowd, is that the Lincoln Project types are smart enough to see, and mature enough to admit, that they made a mistake.

The truth of the matter is that if Trump had the maturity to have reigned in his ego, even a tiny fraction, and put just a bit more effort (you know, more than "none") into actually doing his job, instead of "owning the libs", he probably would have coasted to a second term. The hilarious part of watching conservative denial over Biden's victory is that the fault is really Trump's own.

How do you reconcile your facts like Lincoln Project peeling away 3 or 4 percent of Trumps vote with Trump increasing his vote from 62 million to 74 million?

If you read the post you replied to, you would see that 3 to 4 percent by the Lincoln Project is attributed to Steve Bannon as a hypothetical that would lead to Trump's defeat; since Trump lost but did not lose 3 to 4 percent, it was clearly not the only path to a Trump loss.

Turnout went up by 21 million votes to over 158 million, and Trump's percentage increased by 0.9% to 46.83%, while Biden improved by 3.25% over Clinton to 51.28%. It appears that Biden did worse than Clinton with minority voters but better with white voters; with so much fuss made over Obama-Trump voters, I expect that we will hear there were a lot of Obama-Trump-Biden voters. That Trump improved vote share in a pandemic and terrible economy does surprise me, but it was probably at the expense of third party candidates. Maybe Biden just peeled off the third party votes more than Trump did, as the non-two-party vote went from over 6% to under 2%.

I expect the Lincoln Project was mostly Never-Trumpers shifting to Lincoln voters, but it seems some number of Never-Trumpers became Trumpers too. Notice that Trump underperformed congressional candidates in both elections, so there were already Republican voters who didn't like Trump. Note that some conservatives (e.g., the New Hampshire Union Leader) endorsed Biden while encouraging votes for congressional Republicans.

"Sleepy" Biden getting the most votes ever just seems improbable to many people.

Sleepy, or just not interrupting his opponent while he was making mistakes? The Trump campaign made a lot of errors, and the October surprises weren't likely to come from anyone seen as credibly independent of the Trump campaign.

I guarantee you the McCain shit is a large part of why he lost Arizona.

That was one of the few things that genuinely pissed me off about Trump. Most of what Trump did was just annoying, but that one, really out of line. Him bashing McCain for being captured when Trump is a draft dodger, infuriating. How could SHARK defend shit like that?

It surprises me that the pandemic seems to have held so little sway with voters compared to issues that were already known in 2016.

[rawma]

Diaper Donnie got his rich father to buy his way out of military service.

For some reason, they keep playing "Fortunate Son" at Trump rallies (despite a cease and desist letters from John Fogerty). The "fortunate son" is one whose family could buy his way out of the Vietnam draft.

"Some folks are born, silver spoon in hand
Lord, don't they help themselves, y'all
But when the taxman comes to the door
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale, yeah

It ain't me
It ain't me
I ain't no millionaire's son, no, no
It ain't me
It ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one, no"

[oggsmash]

      McCain's father was an Admiral, royalty, and the reason he could crash planes and still be a pilot despite doing things his way.  I find it strange that people are suddenly McCain supporters who I have a feeling never had a kind word to say about him before.  I guess if a hero to you is a guy who bombs peasants and then jumps out of the plane prematurely, injuring himself in the process, and then gets left in a POW camp for political clout by his father, good on ya.   I guess your other heros are heavy armored knights riding down fleeing peasants after a route? 

    Trump's attack on McCain did not bother me a bit, I know when he spoke of McCain I know he is talking about a guy who L O V E S to get people into wars despite, from his own record, not being so great at it. You guys talk about trump privilege and seem to have no idea what sort of influence an Admiral has in the world, much less how much they have in the military.

     It is an odd world, where I watch right leaning people try to find incidents of racist behavior or speech from lefties, and from lefties I watch them suddenly champion warmongering asshats who have every thing they got in life from their last names.
 

[oggsmash]

  Right leaning people do not have a problem believing anything.  But in my opinion only a FOOL believes things from people who have explicitly pointed out they are in fact their enemies, and they hate them.   So forgive me for not taking information from my stated enemies as the gospel.  I guess had they not told me they hate me, that they are my enemies and they will celebrate the day I leave this earth, I might be more inclined to accept information they choose to share.

[Tubesock Army]

      McCain's father was an Admiral, royalty, and the reason he could crash planes and still be a pilot despite doing things his way.  I find it strange that people are suddenly McCain supporters who I have a feeling never had a kind word to say about him before.  I guess if a hero to you is a guy who bombs peasants and then jumps out of the plane prematurely, injuring himself in the process, and then gets left in a POW camp for political clout by his father, good on ya.   I guess your other heros are heavy armored knights riding down fleeing peasants after a route? 

    Trump's attack on McCain did not bother me a bit, I know when he spoke of McCain I know he is talking about a guy who L O V E S to get people into wars despite, from his own record, not being so great at it. You guys talk about trump privilege and seem to have no idea what sort of influence an Admiral has in the world, much less how much they have in the military.

     It is an odd world, where I watch right leaning people try to find incidents of racist behavior or speech from lefties, and from lefties I watch them suddenly champion warmongering asshats who have every thing they got in life from their last names.

You assume that I only became a fan of McCain after he began to oppose Trump. This isn't the case. I have respected, if not always agreed with him, for decades.

[Trond]

Part of the problem is that the media have become utterly unreliable, and I'd argue worse so on the left, which I used to follow more than the right. Most leftists seem oblivious to it, while right-wingers are so aware of it that they are skeptical to anything that doesn't "feel right" to them, because they are constantly being lied to (and by Republicans too by the way). I have debated people on a left-leaning forum, and they had no clue that Trump supporters had been murdered in the protests, that George Floyd had breathing problems before he was put on the ground, or that he had previously committed armed robbery of a pregnant woman. Or indeed that the Democrats, in trying to expose Russian collusion had been going after an informant for CIA, i.e. he was helping the US intelligence against the Russians. That was actually when the collusion story fell apart, but most leftists don't know that it ever did.

The willingness on the right to believe just about anything is much greater, but the left is not immune to false information.

Trump supporters killed at protests? I was aware of one in Portland, and that the perpetrator was later shot by police (and that Donald Trump extolled this as a good and even intended result). I was unaware of the one in Denver on October 10. There have been more killings of BLM protesters, and the murderer in Kenosha became a hero of Trumpies.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled

The only breathing problem of George Floyd I was aware of was recovering from Covid-19, which he reportedly informed the police arresting him of. I was aware that he had criminal convictions although not in much detail but he had apparently turned his life around since release from prison in 2013. He allegedly passed a counterfeit $20 bill at a store and it seems possible that, having lost his job because of the pandemic, he committed that crime but also possible that he was unaware the bill was counterfeit. Do you think that any of this justifies killing George Floyd?

Your last comment about collusion investigations compromising a CIA informant, or even just that the collusion story fell apart, is going to need some links.

Do I think that justifies killing George Floyd? Of course not. I'm not so sure he was actually killed though. The initial video released was cut to show only the worst possible case for the police officers. But I won't miss a guy who forced himself into a pregnant woman's house and threatened her with a gun. I believe that the whole case should be investigated, with all the info, unlike the hysterical reactions based on incomplete info, trial-by-mob guilty-by-association some people seem to prefer. Meanwhile leftists convince themselves that such a case happening to a white man would lead to a greater outrage. Well, similar things have happened to white people before, and nobody gave a shit. USA is not a racist country, it's a race-hysterical country. As a side note notice also the hysteria surrounding the "smirking kid" vs the Native American with the drum. I watched the same video as everyone else and saw absolutely nothing newsworthy happening.

Funny thing about the killings is that the right-wingers doing the shooting tend to look more like self defense (see Kenosha) while killings by lefties look more like straight up executions (Portland), even when seeing greatly cut down videos of the events, but again let's hope we get some thorough investigations and trials. Leftists being more violent at protests is something I have observed first hand though. They seriously need to clean up the garbage among their ranks.

The "Russian collusion" guy's name is Carter Page.

[HappyDaze]

I find it strange that people are suddenly McCain supporters who I have a feeling never had a kind word to say about him before.  I guess if a hero to you is a guy who bombs peasants... 

Can we not go back to referring to Vietnam War vets as baby-killers and the like, OK?

[Mistwell]

      McCain's father was an Admiral, royalty, and the reason he could crash planes and still be a pilot despite doing things his way.  I find it strange that people are suddenly McCain supporters who I have a feeling never had a kind word to say about him before.

I was always a McCain supporter and was happy to vote for him for President. His health care proposal remains the best one I've seen of the very many that have been proposed, and was way better than Obamacare.

[jeff37923]

Double Post

[jeff37923]

You know, you can dislike McCain because of his policy decisions and the fact that he was the democrats' pet republican, without even going anywhere near his military service.

Then again, claiming to now be a McCain supporter after his death just means that you are desperately looking for some substance about him that wasn't there when he was alive.