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Fan Forums => The RPGPundit's Own Forum => Topic started by: deadDMwalking on July 17, 2020, 04:22:33 PM

Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on July 17, 2020, 04:22:33 PM
The non-Partisan Cook Political Report released an electoral map (https://cookpolitical.com/sites/default/files/2020-07/EC%20Ratings071420.pdf?) based on how they rate each state.  They currently rate 279 electoral votes as solid/likely/lean Democrat and 187 electoral votes as solid/likely/lean Republican.  Compared to Real Clear Politics (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/2020_elections_electoral_college_map.html) which includes Missouri and Texas as toss-ups, the Cook Political report is assigning them to Trump, along with Iowa and Ohio.  Even with that, winning the 72 electoral votes listed as 'toss-up' (which is comprised of Arizona, Florida, Georgia, and North Carolina, as well as a Maine district) Biden would win 279 to 259.  It would require Trump to run the table and poach at least one large State from the Lean Democrat column.  

Current polls in the 'toss-up' states are unfavorable to Trump (polling numbers from 538's polling average):

Arizona (Biden +2.6%)
Florida (Biden +6.8%)
Georgia (Biden +1.0%)
North Carolina (Biden +2.9%)

Even Ohio, which is listed as Lean Republican and was included with Trump's electoral totals is polling with Biden at +2.2%
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RPGPundit on July 17, 2020, 05:31:35 PM
It is interesting, but to say that any polling company is "non-partisan" is disingenuous. Considering that the vast majority of pollsters are sociologists and these are 96+% hard-left Democrats, it makes all polls inherently difficult to think of as reliable.

However, I DO agree that we have to be worried about this. That we can't just blindly assume that Trump is going to win and the Polls are lies. I understand why we would think that, because of 2016, The "Hillary has a 96% chance of winning!" Year where pollsters showed themselves for the blatant partisan hacks they really were. But an excess of confidence is extremely dangerous. We could be the ones in the bubble right now. And the volatility of this year is very hard to analyze.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mjollnir on July 18, 2020, 07:55:53 AM
Unlike 2016, Trump is inspiring no enthusiasm. His voters are going to stay home in droves. If there's somewhere I can legally bet money on this election, please let me know.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on July 18, 2020, 10:06:34 PM
If you're interested in betting on the election, I would start with Sports Geek (https://www.thesportsgeek.com/sportsbooks/political/).  They have links to legal betting sites and recommendations.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2020, 01:28:51 AM
Your gloating won't age well, not only because the polls can't be trusted but because currently your fellow travelers are doing everything in their power to re-elect Trump. But you lefties never learn.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on July 19, 2020, 05:47:55 AM
November is ages away from now in political terms. Biden doesn't even have a VP, neither party has hosted their convention and there have been zero debates. All of these are major factors and they haven't occurred yet.

However, the MSM narrative is even more naked than in 2016. Everything is about demoralizing Trump supporters to keep them from them from voting and assuring the GenZ democrats they're about to win bigly so they vote for Dementia JoJo.

Considering the disastrous track records states had counting votes during the primaries, its possible it might be a week after the election before we have a winner. Voting irregularities, or at least accusations, will be flying fast and furious from all sides.

The only "sure thing" is the country will be further torn apart in November and beyond.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on July 19, 2020, 02:20:06 PM
I don't think my tone could be read as gloating; I was reporting on what the current state of polling is.  It is my contention that enough people were certain that Clinton would win that they felt confident in casting a protest vote.  If Jill Stein's votes in Michigan had gone to Clinton, she would have carried the state.  

I think a narrative that Trump can't win is potentially counterproductive for Democrats.  The importance of EVERY VOTER making their opinion known is crucial.  Toward that end, I'm in favor of increasing access to absentee ballots and increasing vote security by using paper ballots (having a paper trail) in the event there are irregularities.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on July 19, 2020, 04:05:08 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1140668
I don't think my tone could be read as gloating; I was reporting on what the current state of polling is.  It is my contention that enough people were certain that Clinton would win that they felt confident in casting a protest vote.  If Jill Stein's votes in Michigan had gone to Clinton, she would have carried the state.


Ah, yes! The good old "if the woman who barely got 1% of the total vote didn't exist $Hillary would have won" narrative.

Cuz Jill voters are totally interchangeable with $Hill voters, and there's no way that everyone who voted for Jill absolutely HATED $Hillary and would never have voted for her anyway. At least some of them must have been democratic hopefuls who just fell under the spell of Hippie Grandma and were led astray by her relative good looks despite her age and forgot to vote for the warmongering corporate candidate who stood against everything the average Green voter would believe in. There's NO way most of those people were #BernieOrJill voters who had already made up their minds NEVER to vote for the Queen of Warmongers well before election day and specifically made their way to the polls to tell Democrats that they could go fuck themselves. There HAS to be a way they would have voted for a neocon in liberal clothing instead.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on July 19, 2020, 04:11:45 PM
Quote from: Mjollnir;1140482
Unlike 2016, Trump is inspiring no enthusiasm. His voters are going to stay home in droves. If there's somewhere I can legally bet money on this election, please let me know.

I highly doubt that.Trump and Biden both have issues with enthusiasm right now but Biden's enthusiasm is completely non-existent while Trump's enthusiasm is depressed and with cancel culture at a fever pitch, it's difficult to tell how much of that is an actual lack of enthusiasm and how much is a lack of visible enthusiasm out of fear of being targeted by some SJW on social media AKA a silent majority

We won't know until November and Biden hasn't even picked a goddamn fucking running mate yet. I'm not making any predictions or giving any ballpark guesses until Joe Biden has a running mate for Vice President or we get a presidential debate on TV, whichever comes first.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on July 19, 2020, 04:41:00 PM
6000 people turned out to the rally in Tulsa despite covid and domestic terrorists attacking attendees.  There's continuous Trump boat rallies on both coasts.  There was that big pro Trump, pro Police march in New York recently.  Trump is shattering Primary records in terms of number of votes.  Republicans are outregistering Democrats in most battlefield states.  Blacks are turning away from Biden or switching to Trump or Kanye.  Latinos are turning towards Trump (especially in Miami -- hmm wonder why).  Universities won't be open which means dipshit student votes will be way down.

Looks good to me.

Luckily up here in Soviet Canuckistan the Conservative Party leadership race saw a massive surge in registrations and even my hippie-dippie sister is starting to get fed up with Baron von Fancy Socks.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on July 19, 2020, 04:51:19 PM
It doesn't matter who wins. Everybody will lose.

I'll only vote for the candidate whose platform is to annex Mexico.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on July 19, 2020, 05:42:48 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1140685
I'll only vote for the candidate whose platform is to annex Mexico.

Unless you live in Mexico why would you want it annexed?
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on July 19, 2020, 06:00:53 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1140692
Unless you live in Mexico why would you want it annexed?

To make them pay for the wall that we no longer need?
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on July 19, 2020, 06:10:14 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1140692
Unless you live in Mexico why would you want it annexed?

Colonialism knows no bounds. smfh
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on July 19, 2020, 06:14:18 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1140692
Unless you live in Mexico why would you want it annexed?


To send the military against the cartels. Also, stop illegal immigration by bringing the USA to them.

Also, pre-empt China's world domination plot.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on July 19, 2020, 06:21:19 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1140697
To send the military against the cartels. Also, stop illegal immigration by bringing the USA to them.
The same effective way America managed to stop the Taliban and Isis. Except also giving the Taliban Tickets into the USA.

Quote
Also, pre-empt China's world domination plot.
There can be more done but that would require a hard 'cold war' type announcement. Not a good position to do that now.

I appreciate your healthy skepticism but at times black pills become just blindness inducers.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on July 19, 2020, 06:35:36 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1140697
To send the military against the cartels. Also, stop illegal immigration by bringing the USA to them.


OR, they could, you know... legalize drugs and let the "problem" sort itself out. Then Central and South American countries could boost their economies by cultivating legal drugs and selling them to the USA, negating the need for illegal immigration in general.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 19, 2020, 07:25:57 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1140685
It doesn't matter who wins. Everybody will lose.

I'll only vote for the candidate whose platform is to annex Mexico.


I'm a Mexican and I approve this message.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on July 19, 2020, 08:10:48 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1140699
The same effective way America managed to stop the Taliban and Isis. Except also giving the Taliban Tickets into the USA.


There can be more done but that would require a hard 'cold war' type announcement. Not a good position to do that now.

I appreciate your healthy skepticism but at times black pills become just blindness inducers.


There's nothing healthy about it. The political parties are cancerous now. They're killing America while China and Russia circle us like vultures.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: danskmacabre on July 19, 2020, 08:13:45 PM
I'm not an American and don't live there.
However from the feel I get from conversations and how actually events are panning out, unless Trump voters are simply too afraid to go out and vote, then Trump will will 2020, for better or worse.

One thing is for sure, the impact of Trump winning or Biden winning in November is going to effect all of the west to some degree and I think dramatically in the USA.
With this and the Corona Virus still affecting us all, it's probably a good idea to have a bug out plan "just in case"  

I'm not saying some some of apocalyptic event or general collapse of civilization, but things seem like they're getting really serious and it hasn't peaked yet.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on July 19, 2020, 08:14:17 PM
Quote from: KingCheops;1140682
Baron von Fancy Socks.


I love that. It is right up there with Governor Party Tits. Kudos!
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on July 19, 2020, 08:44:35 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1140710
The political parties are cancerous now.
NOW? When where they ever not cancerous?
Quote
They're killing America while China and Russia circle us like vultures.
You're grossly overestimating both China and Russia.

Not that the USA is infallible but I see its core issues as social issues, with the political parties being more expressions of said issues than in reverse.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on July 19, 2020, 10:08:57 PM
Parties have never been good for America, but as the culture war becoming synonymous with political parties, now we're talking un-healable divisions, even within friends, families and most importantly, gaming groups. That's sad.  

I'm not a fan of "enthusiasm as indicator" because Hillary couldn't fill a high school gym and still almost won.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on July 19, 2020, 11:18:11 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1140726
Parties have never been good for America, but as the culture war becoming synonymous with political parties, now we're talking un-healable divisions, even within friends, families and most importantly, gaming groups. That's sad.  

Again Id rather it be in the open than hidden. This was always gonna happen this way one way or the other. And the way that happening right now is one of the better ways.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: danskmacabre on July 20, 2020, 12:58:46 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1140726
Parties have never been good for America, but as the culture war becoming synonymous with political parties, now we're talking un-healable divisions, even within friends, families and most importantly, gaming groups. That's sad.  

Yeah I agree. I do restrict conversations with certain friends.
Whilst I consider myself more or less "Centre Left", a few of my friends IMO have gone more extreme left and some areas of discission are off limits by unspoken consent.
It does train friendships somewhat at times, but I've working on changing my circle of friends over the last year or so with people who are more moderate or just more open to discussion with varying opinions.

As to family, well, I'm somewhat of a black sheep in my family anyway, so no loss there with a few exceptions with those who can remain calm in a discussion.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mjollnir on July 20, 2020, 11:58:58 AM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1140586
If you're interested in betting on the election, I would start with Sports Geek (https://www.thesportsgeek.com/sportsbooks/political/).  They have links to legal betting sites and recommendations.

Many thanks

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1140677
I highly doubt that.Trump and Biden both have issues with enthusiasm right now but Biden's enthusiasm is completely non-existent while Trump's enthusiasm is depressed and with cancel culture at a fever pitch, it's difficult to tell how much of that is an actual lack of enthusiasm and how much is a lack of visible enthusiasm out of fear of being targeted by some SJW on social media AKA a silent majority

We won't know until November and Biden hasn't even picked a goddamn fucking running mate yet. I'm not making any predictions or giving any ballpark guesses until Joe Biden has a running mate for Vice President or we get a presidential debate on TV, whichever comes first.

Biden doesn't need enthusiasm, he has demographics, democrats galvanized against orange man (who is very, vary bad), and right wingers have been systematically purged from social media for "election interference". The meme warriors that did so much to get Trump elected have taken their ball and gone home. Trump hasn't made good on any of the promises that motivated his voters. When the BLM riots kicked off, and kept getting worse, he has nowhere to be found.

Trump's win in 2020 was a long shot. He was going up against one of the most hated politicians in American history and still barely won. I have no doubt Trump will trounce Biden hilariously in the debates, but it won't matter. Too many of the people he needs to come out are tired of "winning" and tired of his bloviating, empty BS. Even the Q-tards ore beginning to distrust the plan. If I'm wrong then by all means ridicule me on Nov 8th, but I don't know if Biden can lose if he tries.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 20, 2020, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: Mjollnir;1140821
Many thanks



Biden doesn't need enthusiasm, he has demographics, democrats galvanized against orange man (who is very, vary bad), and right wingers have been systematically purged from social media for "election interference". The meme warriors that did so much to get Trump elected have taken their ball and gone home. Trump hasn't made good on any of the promises that motivated his voters. When the BLM riots kicked off, and kept getting worse, he has nowhere to be found.

Trump's win in 2020 was a long shot. He was going up against one of the most hated politicians in American history and still barely won. I have no doubt Trump will trounce Biden hilariously in the debates, but it won't matter. Too many of the people he needs to come out are tired of "winning" and tired of his bloviating, empty BS. Even the Q-tards ore beginning to distrust the plan. If I'm wrong then by all means ridicule me on Nov 8th, but I don't know if Biden can lose if he tries.

Except this flies right in the face of 'record breaking Republican primary turnout, even in states where Trump's primary is unopposed'.

I'm sorry, you can't have BOTH these things be true. Either the Silent Majority is loading the mother of all 'fuck you's' into the electoral artillery chamber, or they're not even in the ballpark.

Worse, Biden is not going to excite the base. He's the Democrat answer to Jeb Bush. He's already locked himself into a tight spot by declaring a woman POC will be his VP nominee, which limits his options drastically. His propensity to lose his train of thought after it's left the station is just going to make it even more bizarre.

On the upshot, Trump will get to practice making his funny faces during the debates when Biden suddenly veers off into la-la land and starts talking about Eskimo double rainbows and how not voting for Biden means you're not really black.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on July 22, 2020, 06:47:58 AM
You guys scare me.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on July 24, 2020, 04:38:39 PM
From the Cook Report (https://cookpolitical.com/index.php/analysis/senate/senate-overview/almost-100-days-out-democrats-are-favored-take-back-senate), with 100 days to the election, Democrats are favored to take control of the Senate.  

The current composition of the Senate is 53 Republicans, 47 Democrats (includes 2 Independents who caucus with the Democrats).  In order to win the Senate, the Democrats would need to pick up 4 seats, or 3 seats plus the Presidency.  There is an expectation that Doug Jones of Alabama loses his seat, so in order to pick up the ~5 seats Democrats need.

It Appears that Arizona and Colorado will elect Democrats; Mark Kelly is an extremely strong candidate running against an appointed Senator (she lost her race to the Senate) and polls show Kelly with a 7-10% lead.  Colorado is a state that Clinton won, and the state seems to have moved left in the intervening 4 years; there have been few recent polls but Hickenlooper had a double-digit lead against the Incumbent since he won the primary.  

North Carolina and Iowa are both showing a Democrat lead.  Montana has a popular former governor running for the Senate with a virtual tie with the incumbent; although it is a ruby-red state, it looks like it will a close election.  Susan Collins in Maine is very vulnerable, polling behind her Democratic challenger Sara Gideon.  

The most vulnerable Democrat is in Michigan - where polls show Democratic incumbent Gary Peters leading John James by 9%.  

Summary: Democrats are defending 12 seats is 'solid D' territory, 1 in Lean D territory, and one in Lean R territory that they're likely to lose.  Pickup opportunities for the Democrats include Arizona (rated lean-D), Colorado, Ga (1 of the 2), Iowa, Maine, Montana and North Carolina.  Even in 'Lean Republican' territory (Georgia's OTHER election and Kansas) there are signs that it may end up being more competitive.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on July 24, 2020, 09:21:06 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1140850
Except this flies right in the face of 'record breaking Republican primary turnout, even in states where Trump's primary is unopposed'.


That was ages ago in the pre-BLM world.

That was back when Trump supporters believed the world would return to normal where Trump could get the economy restarted and revving back into gear, but Trump underestimated the evil of the MSM and governors who manipulated the shamdemic to drown the economy in the shitter.


Quote from: Ghostmaker;1140850
Either the Silent Majority is loading the mother of all 'fuck you's' into the electoral artillery chamber, or they're not even in the ballpark.


Exactly true.

Nobody knows if the Silent Majority exists...or what they will actually do. No poll can be trusted because the MSM is nothing but anti-American lying filth and even FOX news have been testing out their new "leftist-lite" approach.

Also, the Silent Majority has that name because they don't vote, so we would have to see some monstrous new voter registrations for Republicans to believe they're even motivated to get off their couch.

Worse, even if the Silent Majority exists and leaps into the fray, it might not matter against the left's election fraud. States with mail-in voting might as well be counted as Biden wins. Any state where there's "ballot harvesting" operation is already lost.


Quote from: Ghostmaker;1140850
Worse, Biden is not going to excite the base.


His base knows Biden's not going to be the power in the White House. They aren't voting for Biden. He's just the name on the ticket and won't be more than a figurehead, if he's even kept around. Democrats are voting for liberal and Marxist control and destruction of the nation...and they are VERY motivated to make that happen.  

In fact, Biden babbling nonsense at the debates might even help him. He doesn't matter to his voters, but Trump voters might see Biden drooling and mistakenly believe there's nobody dumb enough for vote for Biden when we most certainly have an entire nation full of worthless morons excited to destroy everything past Americans sacrificed to ensure.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 25, 2020, 08:12:48 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1141658
His base knows Biden's not going to be the power in the White House. They aren't voting for Biden. He's just the name on the ticket and won't be more than a figurehead, if he's even kept around. Democrats are voting for liberal and Marxist control and destruction of the nation...and they are VERY motivated to make that happen.  

In fact, Biden babbling nonsense at the debates might even help him. He doesn't matter to his voters, but Trump voters might see Biden drooling and mistakenly believe there's nobody dumb enough for vote for Biden when we most certainly have an entire nation full of worthless morons excited to destroy everything past Americans sacrificed to ensure.
That's pretty fucking sad, you know. Not you, but the fact that Democrats are basically electing a meat puppet.

Swear to God, I'm starting to think I should move to Singapore or something. At least they're honest about being autocrats.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Aglondir on July 25, 2020, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1141686
Swear to God, I'm starting to think I should move to Singapore or something. At least they're honest about being autocrats.

We need Pundit to create a thread about how to move to Uruguay.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on July 28, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
The Cook Report adjusted it's rating of Florida from 'toss-up' to 'Lean Democrat'.  In my original post, it was polling significantly more friendly toward Biden than the other 'toss up' states in large part because Biden appears to be doing much better with seniors than any recent Democratic candidates.  

Real Clear Politics has a tool (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/create_your_own_president_map.html) that lets you create what you think is the most likely electoral map.  On the 'base map', Biden starts with 222 electoral votes to Trump's 115.  201 Electoral votes are listed as toss-up including Nevada, Arizona, Texas, Iowa, Missouri, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Georgia and, of course, Florida (as well as one district in Maine and one district in Nebraska).  

If Biden winds Florida without a single 'toss-up state', he would have 251 electoral votes.  Winning Pennsylvania (20 electoral votes) would give him the victory, or winning basically any two states besides Nevada/Iowa (6 electoral votes each).  For example, winning Florida, Wisconsin and Michigan would put Biden at 277 electoral votes.  Trump winning every other battleground state wouldn't make a difference.  

Effectively, that puts Florida into 'must-win' territory.  It has been reported that internal polls that Trump relies on 'in aggregate' show him with a smaller share of the electorate in states he won handily - ie, winning Texas by 5 points when in 2016 he won by 9.  A shift of 4 points toward the Democratic opponent.  A universal 4% shift compared to 2016 results would shift the following States from the Republican to the Democratic candidate:

Nebraska's 2nd District, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Florida, North Carolina.  

The National Polls of voters at the end of 2016 showed Clinton with a 2-4% lead (and a negative trend, with late breaking news about the FBI reopening an investigation); she ended up wining the Popular vote by 2%.  If the electorate were exactly like the 2016 electorate (ignoring any demographic changes, or 'enthusiasm changes'), Trump would need to cut the popular vote lead down below 4% - that would potentially allow him to lose only Nebraska's 2nd District, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, which would result in 269 Electoral votes for Biden; Trump would have to win NV, AZ, TX, IA, MO, FL, GA, NC, OH, NH, ME2.  

With 98 days to go until the election, this is just a snapshot, but it may explain why the White House is now endorsing a mask policy, and why the White House asked the governor in Tennessee to close bars (he is not doing so).
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Chris24601 on July 29, 2020, 10:14:11 AM
So, they're basically starting with the exact same assumptions as 2016 (I seem to recall lots of "Trump capped at 110-120 EVs style maps then too), but an even more unlikeable candidate... but they're sure they've got their cheating algorithms right this time so it'll all work out.

You look at the internals on those polls you'll see them weighting the sample at just 23% Republican (when actual registration is in the 38% range) and near 50% Democrat (actual number is also about 38%).

When you're shaving 15% off one side (whom President Trump has 90+% approval) and pumping the other side up by 12% just to get Biden to a slight lead... well the Dem's are F@€#ed and all these polls are really just about trying to lay the groundwork that President Trump stole the election again because RESIST!!! is literally all the lunatic Left has.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on July 29, 2020, 02:47:55 PM
Quote from: Chris24601;1142236
So, they're basically starting with the exact same assumptions as 2016 (I seem to recall lots of "Trump capped at 110-120 EVs style maps then too), but an even more unlikeable candidate... but they're sure they've got their cheating algorithms right this time so it'll all work out.

You look at the internals on those polls you'll see them weighting the sample at just 23% Republican (when actual registration is in the 38% range) and near 50% Democrat (actual number is also about 38%).

When you're shaving 15% off one side (whom President Trump has 90+% approval) and pumping the other side up by 12% just to get Biden to a slight lead... well the Dem's are F*d and all these polls are really just about trying to lay the groundwork that President Trump stole the election again because RESIST!!! is literally all the lunatic Left has.


I spend a fair bit of time evaluating the polls.  There are known differences between 'all adults', versus 'registered voters' versus 'likely voters'.  As you move from one to the other, the electorate becomes more Republican leaning, and the polls reflect that.  The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/29/upshot/polls-political-party-republicans.html) addressed this in an article today asking: Are the Polls Missing Republican Voters?

The article is worth a read, but here's one quote:

Quote

Mr. Trump's problem wasn't the number of people who said they voted for him last time: It was that only 86 percent of those who said they voted for him last time said they would do so again. Perhaps there's a way the poll could have the right number of voters who said they voted for Mr. Trump last time, but not this time. It would have to be an awfully specific form of polling error.


Building on that, Politico (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/07/28/letter-to-washington-scranton-white-working-class-381320) had an article yesterday visiting with people in Scranton, PA - the type of town that you'd expect Trump to do well with.  Once again, the article is worth a read; for Trump to raise his status in the polls, it would be helpful if he could motivate long-time non-voters to start voting.  In 2016, 43% of non-voters were whites without a college degree.  That's a huge potential source of support.  From what I see in a lot of reporting is that a lot of people felt that Trump would change the system (drain the swamp) and that he's seen as corrupt.  If you want to win elections, you either need to get the people who voted for you last time to vote for you again, or you need to find a new group of people to vote for you.  It looks like Trump has lost a lot of support from people that voted for him in 2016.  It may be that Biden is simply not as distasteful as Hillary Clinton to many voters.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on July 29, 2020, 03:17:52 PM
Greetings!

Most polls are terribly corrupted, and desperate to suck down the Marxist's narrative. Of course Trump is behind in the polls, and has always been, and always will be. Liberals want to demoralize Conservative voters--and others--and depress voting, so Biden can win. Even though we know the Democrats are full of lies, deceit and fraud, and will assuredly attempt to corrupt and rig the election in their favour.

In November, I think that President Trump will honestly win in the election in a crushing, landslide victory.

The Marxists are corrupt and broken, and they are attempting to overthrow our Republic, and institute Marxism.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on July 29, 2020, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: SHARK;1142267
Greetings!
Most polls are terribly corrupted, and desperate to suck down the Marxist's narrative.


I don't think this is true, and most 'poll of polls' have been accurate, especially on a National level.  In 2016, the 'big miss' was a failure to recognize a growing divergence between whites with and without college degrees.  Including educational attainment when calculating projected vote share is important and is being included.  There's a measure of uncertainly in polls, and most people are very bad at recognizing uncertainty.  If a poll indicates a tied race (as a Monmouth poll of Adults in Georgia did), the uncertainty of +/-5% means that Trump winning by 5 or losing by 5 are all within the margin of error.  

Here's a Five Thirty Eight (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-polls-are-all-right/) article about the accuracy of polls.

Here's a CNN article (https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/19/politics/2018-midterm-elections-good-year-polls/index.html) evaluating the accuracy of the 2018 mid-term polls.  

Polls are not perfect, and nothing is a substitute for actually having an election.  They still remain a useful (and largely accurate) tool used by all the candidates.


Edit - Here's a Pro Trump (https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html) article on CNN talking about his strong support among so-called 'Obama/Trump' voters.  

In the article, the focus is on how 2/3 of these voters still ardently support Trump.  My take away is that 1/3 of these types of Trump voters have moved away from him - considering his narrow margin of victory in some of these states, it is a loss of support he can ill-afford.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 29, 2020, 03:41:56 PM
Quote from: SHARK;1142267
Greetings!

Most polls are terribly corrupted, and desperate to suck down the Marxist's narrative. Of course Trump is behind in the polls, and has always been, and always will be. Liberals want to demoralize Conservative voters--and others--and depress voting, so Biden can win. Even though we know the Democrats are full of lies, deceit and fraud, and will assuredly attempt to corrupt and rig the election in their favour.

In November, I think that President Trump will honestly win in the election in a crushing, landslide victory.

The Marxists are corrupt and broken, and they are attempting to overthrow our Republic, and institute Marxism.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Hubris precedes the fall.

If you Trumpsters think you can't loose then you'll drink from the same bitter glass that $hillary and her sycophants drank in 2016, get out and convince your friends and family to vote Trump, and to go out and vote come election day.

As for the polls, a study was just made, only the extreme left says they can speak their mind and no one will get offended, the rest of the people don't say this.

Because of cancel culture many people will say to the pollster whatever and do the opposite, but don't think you already won.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on July 29, 2020, 03:49:43 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1142274
Hubris precedes the fall.

If you Trumpsters think you can't loose then you'll drink from the same bitter glass that $hillary and her sycophants drank in 2016, get out and convince your friends and family to vote Trump, and to go out and vote come election day.

As for the polls, a study was just made, only the extreme left says they can speak their mind and no one will get offended, the rest of the people don't say this.

Because of cancel culture many people will say to the pollster whatever and do the opposite, but don't think you already won.

Greetings!

Hey there, GeekyBugle! Oh no, no hubris on my part. Of course, I will be voting for certain. Everyone should. This election is a very crucial election. I would like to think that after all these riots, the Democrat mayors and governors cheering mobs on, cities burning, police departments being defunded, crime going way up, businesses being burned, and people being murdered in the street--the majority of Americans will have had enough of this bullshit, and vote to re-elect President Trump. Thus, I hope he wins in a landslide victory.

If Biden wins the election, this country is fucked.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Steven Mitchell on July 29, 2020, 03:53:52 PM
Quote from: SHARK;1142267
Greetings!

Most polls are terribly corrupted, and desperate to suck down the Marxist's narrative. Of course Trump is behind in the polls, and has always been, and always will be. Liberals want to demoralize Conservative voters--and others--and depress voting, so Biden can win. Even though we know the Democrats are full of lies, deceit and fraud, and will assuredly attempt to corrupt and rig the election in their favour.

In November, I think that President Trump will honestly win in the election in a crushing, landslide victory.

The Marxists are corrupt and broken, and they are attempting to overthrow our Republic, and institute Marxism.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I think the most likely outcome is an electoral college landslide for Trump.  But there are other outcomes that are certainly possible, and not just the 1% chance territory, either.  What this does to the popular vote, I've got no clue.  The agitation is going to produce some enthusiasm and some apathy, especially in states not viewed as close.  Hang onto your hats, it is a bumpy (or bumpier) ride from here on out.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Chris24601 on July 29, 2020, 11:48:25 PM
The latest stats on Biden's marxist anti-fracking energy plan are that it will cost us 19 million jobs, mostly in the swing states President Trump carried in 2016 (650k jobs in PA, 825k in WI and MI, several hundred thousand in OH, and the list goes on).

It's just Hillary's "we're going to put the coal industry out of business" 2.0... now with even more economic hardship. Yet, the braindead Marxists lap it up and think it's going to bring out droves of their fellow Leftists and NOT all those people who want to keep their jobs.

2020 is 2016 turned up a notch because the Leftists have had four years to bake in their toxic TDS juices and can't even comprehend that most people don't hate as much as they do.

So they throw out fake polls where they say "Likely Voters", but weight it with just 23% Republican turnout and 50% Democrat turnout because the important thing isn't the poll's accuracy... it's to sell the narrative that Biden had it in the bag until President Trump stole the election... cue Mueller Investigation and Impeachment 2.0 because these psychopaths will do ANYTHING; lie, cheat, steal, destroy lives; whatever it takes to get the power they crave.

They'd rather be kings of a garbage dump where their will is law than be fellow citizens in a wealthy prosperous country where others are free to ignore them.

And I'll tell you this too... the Insane Left would NOT be pushing to keep everyone socially isolated, the riots, shutting down opposing voices online, and for national mail-in voting if they actually thought they were winning. If you're winning you don't rock the boat, you let things proceed as normal... you certainly don't throw society into chaos and then pray popular sentiment swings your way.

The only people who actually think Biden's winning are the brainwashed ones who only get news from the ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN family of known liars. The cognitive dissonance required to be a Leftist is phenomenal. You literally have to pretend not to know things... like Antifa/BLM being radical Marxist hate groups who have burned and destroyed more black businesses in 30 days than the KKK managed in 30 years.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 30, 2020, 08:26:46 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1142274
Hubris precedes the fall.

If you Trumpsters think you can't loose then you'll drink from the same bitter glass that $hillary and her sycophants drank in 2016, get out and convince your friends and family to vote Trump, and to go out and vote come election day.

As for the polls, a study was just made, only the extreme left says they can speak their mind and no one will get offended, the rest of the people don't say this.

Because of cancel culture many people will say to the pollster whatever and do the opposite, but don't think you already won.

Oh, I'm sure Trump could lose. But it would require a bit more than half assed polls and dangerhairs screaming.

See, here's the kicker: most people just want stability. In some cases, even more than justice. If you don't make the case that shaking things up is absolutely necessary for justice, people will not cotton onto your message even if you're imitating Eric Andre screaming at a fence.

Biden is a ridiculously bad candidate. Supposedly his VP choice will be Kamala 'Roundheels' Harris, whose ascent in power was lubricated by her willingness to get plowed to get ahead. YEAH I WENT THERE, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Great picks, Dems: a guy whose psyche may be fragmenting in real time, with his running mate garnering no respect for anyone due to her cosplaying as the Lincoln Bedroom.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on July 30, 2020, 10:26:10 AM
Quote from: Chris24601;1142330

It's just Hillary's "we're going to put the coal industry out of business" 2.0... now with even more economic hardship. Yet, the braindead Marxists lap it up and think it's going to bring out droves of their fellow Leftists and NOT all those people who want to keep their jobs.


There are ~55,000 coal workers in the United States.  Compare that to teachers (3.7 million), farmers, (2 million), or truck drivers (3.5 million).  That's not a lot of jobs to save, and most of them are not at risk solely because of environmental policies.  The availability of abundant natural gas from fracking makes a huge difference.  Nobody wants London's 1952 killer smog (https://today.tamu.edu/2016/11/14/researchers-solve-mystery-of-historic-1952-london-fog-and-current-chinese-haze/#:~:text=Visibility%20was%20reduced%20to%20only,than%20150%2C000%20had%20been%20hospitalized.).


Quote from: Chris24601;1142330

The only people who actually think Biden's winning are the brainwashed ones who only get news from the ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN family of known liars.


Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-biden-tops-trump-in-battlegrounds-michigan-minnesota-pennsylvania) released a poll on Friday showing Biden with a 9 point lead in Michigan, a 13 point lead in Minnesota, and Pennsylvania by 11 points.  A month ago, a Fox poll showed Trump and Biden tied in Texas (Biden 45, Trump 44).  

What sources of polling do you think are most accurate?  

Polls make their methodology available for review.  A certain amount of variation is to be expected - not every sample is PERFECTLY created, but that's why running many different polls tends to give accurate data.  Likewise, tracking polls (polls repeated every month) are likely to identify trends - increase or decrease in support, even if they're not EXACTLY accurate.  Trump's problem with polls isn't that 'some are liars' - his problem with polls is that they are consistently painting a picture of a very narrow path to reelection.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 30, 2020, 10:42:49 AM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1142355
There are ~55,000 coal workers in the United States.  Compare that to teachers (3.7 million), farmers, (2 million), or truck drivers (3.5 million).  That's not a lot of jobs to save, and most of them are not at risk solely because of environmental policies.  The availability of abundant natural gas from fracking makes a huge difference.

True, but what makes you think that natural gas won't be the next target for the green machine? Canada in particular has been having the devil's time because protesters keep trying to block NG pipelines.

You have idiots out there demanding we shift 90 percent of our power generation to 'renewable sources'. Oh, and they HATE fracking.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on July 30, 2020, 11:14:38 AM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1142355

What sources of polling do you think are most accurate?  


None of them because they are designed to shape thought, not report it.

...except maybe the internal polling that doesn't get released by the campaigns.
Given the 2016 election, I'm not sure that would even be accurate anymore.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on July 30, 2020, 01:31:40 PM
From earlier this month.

Republican internal polling signals a Democratic rout (https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/04/politics/partisan-polls-analysis/index.html)

This one is from April.

Trump presented with grim internal polling showing him losing to Biden (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-presented-with-grim-internal-polling-showing-him-losing-to-biden/2020/04/29/33544208-8a4e-11ea-9759-6d20ba0f2c0e_story.html)

Of course, even if polls aren't everything, I tend to agree with Fox News regarding Trump floating the suggestion that we delay the Federal election.

Quote
Even Fox News, a loyal Trump ally that the president watches for hours inside the White House, interpreted his proposal as a sign the president is flailing.

"It is a fragrant and flagrant expression of his current weakness," Fox News politics editor Chris Stirewalt said during a Fox News broadcast Thursday morning. "A person who is in a strong position would never, never suggest anything like that. So Trump may be making a tactical error here by further telegraphing his weak position in the polls and his weak position for re-election."

Source (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/us/elections/biden-vs-trump.html)
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on July 30, 2020, 01:34:25 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1142358
True, but what makes you think that natural gas won't be the next target for the green machine? Canada in particular has been having the devil's time because protesters keep trying to block NG pipelines.

You have idiots out there demanding we shift 90 percent of our power generation to 'renewable sources'. Oh, and they HATE fracking.

I think that fossil fuels are the past, not the future.  Virtually all of our problems can be solved by access to clean fusion power.  We know that fusion is possible because we're surrounded by stars, but doing it without massive gravity is certainly challenging. I like to believe that if we commit to achieving fusion we can.  On that subject, Iter: World's Largest Nuclear Fusion Project Begins Assembly (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-53573294).
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on July 30, 2020, 01:49:55 PM
Sorry for a triple post, but wanted to add specifically about Florida Polling.

Joe Biden's beating Trump in Florida -- where polls go to die (https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2020/07/30/joe-bidens-beating-trump-in-florida-where-polls-go-to-die/) - Tampa Bay Times

Quote

Steve Vancore, a veteran Democratic strategist in Florida, said people tend to misread polls by projecting the results forward to Election Day. and by failing to account for the campaigns' ability to react to the numbers by shifting strategy and winning over new supporters.

And multiple strategists and pollsters said in interviews that, while polls shouldn't be interpreted as predictors of the future, they are currently picking up voters' discontent in Florida and other battleground states with the president's ability to lead a nation in crisis.

"Right now, I don't think there's anything unusual about the polls. The economy is hurting, people are scared and the commander-in-chief isn't giving people what they want, so his numbers are going down," Vancore said. "But the campaigns see this data and start reacting to the data. That's what closes things down. Partisans tend to go back to the ticket."
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 30, 2020, 01:52:46 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1142385
I think that fossil fuels are the past, not the future.  Virtually all of our problems can be solved by access to clean fusion power.  We know that fusion is possible because we're surrounded by stars, but doing it without massive gravity is certainly challenging. I like to believe that if we commit to achieving fusion we can.  On that subject, Iter: World's Largest Nuclear Fusion Project Begins Assembly (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-53573294).

But until we do unlock fusion, we'll need to make do. We can build much better fission plants (molten salt reactors, for example)...

And again, you will have the green machine screaming for your dangerous technology to be shut down.

I see where you're coming from. I agree with it. But I wouldn't trust the opposition to give you a fair shake even if you proved tokamaks were totally safe for the environment.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RandyB on July 30, 2020, 01:57:23 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1142388
But until we do unlock fusion, we'll need to make do. We can build much better fission plants (molten salt reactors, for example)...

And again, you will have the green machine screaming for your dangerous technology to be shut down.

I see where you're coming from. I agree with it. But I wouldn't trust the opposition to give you a fair shake even if you proved tokamaks were totally safe for the environment.

Yes.

Because it's not about promoting clean power. It's about eliminating cheap power to impoverish the rest of us while they live like kings.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 30, 2020, 02:22:08 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1142385
I think that fossil fuels are the past, not the future.  Virtually all of our problems can be solved by access to clean fusion power.  We know that fusion is possible because we're surrounded by stars, but doing it without massive gravity is certainly challenging. I like to believe that if we commit to achieving fusion we can.  On that subject, Iter: World's Largest Nuclear Fusion Project Begins Assembly (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-53573294).


You can believe whatever you want, dropping our only energy source in the hopes that your dreams come true is asinine.

And furthermore, even if you managed to achieve clean and safe fusion... How do you plan to power planes and ocean transporters of goods? Energy density is against you, so far there's not a single battery that can begin to compete with fossil fuels in this department. Plus the time it takes to recharge them...

Energy density of fuels (https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Energy_density)

Energy density of batteries (https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Energy_density_of_storage_devices)

1 J = 0.00027777777777778 Wh

So the best batteries give you 150 Wh per kilo

Gasoline gives you 46 MJ per kilo or 12777.777777778 Wh per kilo.

The plane fuel gives you 44.65 MJ/kg

Electric planes are still a pipe dream (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_fuel)

Imagine now trying to move by sea 1.19 billion tones of cargo each year, with batteries? Ludicrous!

And powering your cars, buses, planes or ships with thorium reactors is also a pipe dream



Edited to add something about batteries just for the sake of it

Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on July 30, 2020, 03:16:32 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1142384
From earlier this month.

Republican internal polling signals a Democratic rout (https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/04/politics/partisan-polls-analysis/index.html)

This one is from April.

Trump presented with grim internal polling showing him losing to Biden (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-presented-with-grim-internal-polling-showing-him-losing-to-biden/2020/04/29/33544208-8a4e-11ea-9759-6d20ba0f2c0e_story.html)

Of course, even if polls aren't everything, I tend to agree with Fox News regarding Trump floating the suggestion that we delay the Federal election.



Source (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/us/elections/biden-vs-trump.html)

I specifically said 'internal polling that doesn't get released by the campaigns"...
.
and if you really believe that campaigns with hundreds of millions aren't running polls that only the inner circle analyzes, then that just shows your political naiveté.

example:  statistical analysis on voter lists to pinpoint most likely voters....3 days with an 8 hour shift each....approx 50 calls per day per caller (Assuming a 10 minute survey)....say you hire a 100 people to do the calling...that is 15000 responses for about half a week...*

...or do you think that the $263 million already spent by the Biden campaign was for buttons, banners, and bumper stickers??



As far as the delay the election comment....Trump is the biggest troll out there, he tweets shit just to fire people up...He was doing crazy shit before he was even a reality star.

And believe me or not about the polling that is released being about shaping the outcome instead of predicting it...I don't really care

But something you might want to ask yourself:


When people are locked down for an extended period of time, they have to watch and read something....with all that extra time, do you suppose maybe there are more people checking out alternative news sources??
Whether the stories are accurate is irrelevant...it gets people thinking and asking questions...

For crazy libertarians like me, questioning authority isn't a problem, but it can be a problem for both the left and the right...

Which side of the Biden/Trump game do you think has more to lose right now if their base starts asking questions???  ;)



*note == the example numbers were just randomly chosen on the fly while posting...I did have to do telemarketing for a year or so in order to eat, so the call volume assessments are based on actual experience.*
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on July 30, 2020, 04:21:50 PM
Cook Political just published an article Trump's Grip on the GOP is Slipping (https://cookpolitical.com/analysis/national/national-politics/trumps-grip-gop-slipping).  

Quote
The once rock-solid grip that the president had on his party seems to be slipping. Talking with pollsters and strategists from both sides this week,  it's clear that Trump is suffering not just with Democrats and independents but also with GOP voters. They tell us of polling that shows Trump underwater in districts he carried easily in 2016. One GOP strategist told me that even in heavily Republican districts, Trump's job approval rating among Republicans has dropped 10-20 points. The KFF poll released last week found Trump's overall job approval rating among Republicans dropped 12 points between May and July. On handling coronavirus, the drop in GOP support was an even more dramatic 26 points.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: FingerRod on July 30, 2020, 04:28:05 PM
This is purely anecdotal, but I would not put a lot into the polls.

I am an Independent, voting both sides almost perfectly split since the 90's. My wife leans left, and if I had to guess, she is going to do the 'unthinkable' this November.

The why is simple. I use my real name on Twitter. A few weeks ago we were debating how far cancel culture has come. I grabbed my phone, and started a tweet saying that all lives, black and otherwise, matter and that we need to remember that this November with a MAGA hashtag. I handed her the phone and told her to hit the send button. She wouldn't do it.

I work in a highly regulated industry and have to register all social media accounts with my work. She knew it would get flagged, and she feared what would happen. Then I dared her research Governor Wallace, the origin of the KKK, the party that filibustered civil rights and segregated the federal government, the Washington Post stats on the unarmed black men killed by police last year, and the Chicago crime stats (she is from Chicago) so far this year. The final straw was the refusal of the Democrats to even debate Tim Scott's bill in the Senate. She sees Democrats in a different light today than she did two months ago.

I am not about to register Republican, for the same reasons I won't ever use social media for anything other than shit-talking sports, but unless somebody gives me photo evidence of a Republican presidential candidate literally giving Satan a tongue-job, I'm going to be locked in for the foreseeable future.

Like I said, this is completely anecdotal. But I have a feeling there are a lot of us out here.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 30, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
Quote from: FingerRod;1142419
This is purely anecdotal, but I would not put a lot into the polls.

I am an Independent, voting both sides almost perfectly split since the 90's. My wife leans left, and if I had to guess, she is going to do the 'unthinkable' this November.

The why is simple. I use my real name on Twitter. A few weeks ago we were debating how far cancel culture has come. I grabbed my phone, and started a tweet saying that all lives, black and otherwise, matter and that we need to remember that this November with a MAGA hashtag. I handed her the phone and told her to hit the send button. She wouldn't do it.

I work in a highly regulated industry and have to register all social media accounts with my work. She knew it would get flagged, and she feared what would happen. Then I dared her research Governor Wallace, the origin of the KKK, the party that filibustered civil rights and segregated the federal government, the Washington Post stats on the unarmed black men killed by police last year, and the Chicago crime stats (she is from Chicago) so far this year. The final straw was the refusal of the Democrats to even debate Tim Scott's bill in the Senate. She sees Democrats in a different light today than she did two months ago.

I am not about to register Republican, for the same reasons I won't ever use social media for anything other than shit-talking sports, but unless somebody gives me photo evidence of a Republican presidential candidate literally giving Satan a tongue-job, I'm going to be locked in for the foreseeable future.

Like I said, this is completely anecdotal. But I have a feeling there are a lot of us out here.

Anecdotal. I have never voted. Never really cared. I don't follow politics closely enough to make an informed decision, and would be just randomly poking boxes like a pidgeon.
But after Trump, the Democrats have gone so far off the deep end. I have voted straight Red with a preference for Trump supporters on the ballot. just dropped off my state primaries last week, as a matter of fact.
I am simply hate voting against the Democrats at this stage. I once considered them the lesser of two evils. But they've managed to convince me they're the greater of two evils at this point in time.

I don't know what Trump's chances of re-election are. I don't trust any polls since 2016. But if I were to put a wager on it, I'd be willing to say Trump in a landslide. I think the average American is shit scared of the rioting and the Democrats trying to sweep it under the rug, and they want a candidate who's willing to send in the troops and clean house. Or at least, the candidate who says they will.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on July 31, 2020, 04:17:43 AM
I don't believe landslides are possible in such a divided America.

I do know that Trump will lose if sane people don't stand up and vote for him.
As with 2016, it''s all about voter turnout in key states.
If you know any American who doesn't want to live in communist shithole, get them to the polls because 2020 is the moment when America chooses between Freedom and Tyranny. If Biden wins, America is done. Say goodbye to prosperity.

Maybe the Silent Majority exists.  
Maybe they will get off their ass this year.
Who knows?

As for polls, let's keep two major factors in mind:
1) Biden's handlers haven't announced the real Democratic presidential candidate, oops, I mean his VP.
2) There have been ZERO presidential debates.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 31, 2020, 08:11:10 AM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1142418
Cook Political just published an article Trump's Grip on the GOP is Slipping (https://cookpolitical.com/analysis/national/national-politics/trumps-grip-gop-slipping).

Cook also believed Trump was going to get utterly pasted in 2016.

Forgive me if I fail to panic.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on July 31, 2020, 12:17:42 PM
I definitely wouldn't panic either. For a couple of reasons, the only polls even remotely worth listening to are aggregate polls, and even those are highly limited in their scope. Secondly, the silent majority definitely does exist, and the polls make no real attempt to find them. People where I live largely are ignored by polling, and what polling does occur, occurs in the metropolitan areas, therefore injecting a liberal bias by their very nature. People here often keep their political opinions to themselves, even going so far as to not even discuss who or what they voted for. Largely, this is the nature of rural conservatism. The only thing I would be concerned about is complacency, but I think the far left has made enough of a spectacle of themselves to ensure that everyone votes here simply from fear of encroaching Marxist beliefs.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on August 01, 2020, 10:43:26 PM
Quote from: Aglondir;1141744
We need Pundit to create a thread about how to move to Uruguay.


Agreed. I love Pundy's posts about Uruguay. It would be great to hear more about the country as it exists today from his perspective.

In the meantime, here's an article about 12 Countries where Americans can escape...at a price.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2020/07/28/escape-america-countries-buy-citizenship-second-passport/#573f0dd27f74 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2020/07/28/escape-america-countries-buy-citizenship-second-passport/#573f0dd27f74)
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on August 02, 2020, 01:57:21 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1142724
Agreed. I love Pundy's posts about Uruguay. It would be great to hear more about the country as it exists today from his perspective.

In the meantime, here's an article about 12 Countries where Americans can escape...at a price.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2020/07/28/escape-america-countries-buy-citizenship-second-passport/#573f0dd27f74 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2020/07/28/escape-america-countries-buy-citizenship-second-passport/#573f0dd27f74)

Sorry Spinachcat, better cross NZ off the list.  No USAians allowed at the minute I am afraid.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 03, 2020, 08:28:42 AM
Quote from: Shasarak;1142734
Sorry Spinachcat, better cross NZ off the list.  No USAians allowed at the minute I am afraid.

Considering their spectacular freak-out after the Christchurch shooting and how they went on a gun-grabbing spree, I didn't plan on emigrating there anyways.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on August 03, 2020, 05:38:36 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1142928
Considering their spectacular freak-out after the Christchurch shooting and how they went on a gun-grabbing spree, I didn't plan on emigrating there anyways.

That is a Win - Win for all of us.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on August 04, 2020, 04:01:53 PM
Every news site follows their own logic for how they rate the current projections for the Electoral College.  

NPR (https://www.npr.org/2020/08/03/897202359/2020-electoral-map-ratings-trump-slides-biden-advantage-expands-over-270-votes) moved 6 races toward the Democratic candidate.  They are now rating Colorado likely Dem (was Lean Dem), Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Nevada, and Florida as Lean Dem (was Toss-up) and Georgia from Lean GOP to toss-up.  

Of those, Florida is the most likely to shift back.  Based on their electoral map, if Florida were to swing back to Trump, it would drop Biden down to 268 electoral votes - 2 shy of a victory.  While it appears that 'the rustbelt' has swung hard away from Trump (who no longer has the message of change), this does include projecting Biden winning states that Trump carried in 2016 (especially PA, MI, FL).
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on August 04, 2020, 05:45:59 PM
Quote from: Shasarak;1142734
Sorry Spinachcat, better cross NZ off the list.  No USAians allowed at the minute I am afraid.


Be nice or I'll spread rumors there's oil in the Shire!
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on August 05, 2020, 11:37:09 AM
Emerson (https://emersonpolling.reportablenews.com/pr/july-national-poll-biden-maintains-lead-in-presidential-race-majority-support-nationwide-mask-mandate-in-public-spaces) has released one of the most favorable polls for Trump in the last several weeks, showing him with 47% of the vote among Likely Voters; most other polls show him in the low 40s.  

It's an interesting poll for a variety of reasons.  Based on their poll of a month ago, the margins remain the same, but there is a much smaller pool of undecided voters (10% undecided in June, only 4% now).  Trump won late-deciding voters by a significant margin (in the lead up to the election 538 had several articles about how there was significantly more uncertainty about the election than was reported in the media, in large part because there were enough undecided voters to change the result).  If the number of undecided voters gets much smaller, campaigns will have to 'poach voters' who have already decided on their preferred candidate to achieve their desired state-level results.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on August 05, 2020, 02:05:58 PM
Five Thirty Eight (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/biden-is-polling-better-than-clinton-at-her-peak/) released an interesting article on the polling now versus 2016. This was published after my last post, but reiterates something I had said.

Quote

Clinton led in most national polls, but was typically garnering support only in the low- to mid-40s. Biden's share has been hovering around 50 percent. As a result, some of the uncertainty about the trajectory of the Trump-Biden race might be reduced, in part because there are simply fewer voters who haven't made up their minds and because signs point to fewer third-party voters than in 2016. Combined, Clinton and Trump had secured 84 percent of support, on average, in national polls in early August 2016. By comparison, Biden and Trump currently combine for 92 percent.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on August 05, 2020, 03:14:38 PM
Polling doesn't matter for shit if someone can get ruined for admitting to being MAGA.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RandyB on August 05, 2020, 03:17:20 PM
Quote from: KingCheops;1143460
Polling doesn't matter for shit if someone can get ruined for admitting to being MAGA.

To the old adage: "There are three kinds of falsehoods - lies, damned lies, and statistics" we can add a fourth kind of falsehood: "polls".
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 05, 2020, 03:26:49 PM
Biden will NOT be traveling to Wisconsin to accept his party's nomination (https://www.wisn.com/article/reports-joe-biden-will-not-come-to-milwaukee-for-dnc/33522984#).

Presumably because they can't get him through twenty minutes of exposure without him groping a woman, drooling, or shitting into his Depends.

Wonder who the Veep nomination will be?
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2020, 03:31:49 PM
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2020, 06:41:18 PM
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on August 11, 2020, 05:28:46 PM
I assume everyone is aware that Biden named Kamala Harris as his running mate.

While that's going to dominate the news cycle for the next couple of days, I thought The Cook Political Reports article on Independents (https://cookpolitical.com/analysis/national/national-politics/approve-or-not-trump-setting-unfavorable-downballot-conditions) was worth a read.

Quote
Either way, Republicans are getting clobbered with independents. The assessments end up in the same place. The only differences are in how to read the problem. One GOP campaign consultant suggested that the percentage of voters not just disapproving, but strongly disapproving of Trump's overall performance is the best indicator--that "somewhat disapproving" left slight ground for someone to still come down his way. National polls show roughly 50 percent strongly disapprove of the president's performance, with somewhat disapproving in the mid-single digits. Of course, winning all of the somewhat-disapproving voters would be a bit unrealistic.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on August 11, 2020, 06:49:03 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1144384
I assume everyone is aware that Biden named Kamala Harris as his running mate.

While that's going to dominate the news cycle for the next couple of days, I thought The Cook Political Reports article on Independents (https://cookpolitical.com/analysis/national/national-politics/approve-or-not-trump-setting-unfavorable-downballot-conditions) was worth a read.

The problem is that as much as Trump is disliked, Kamala is just as hated if not more.

Biden more or less lost the support of BLM with that move. Some of my SJW relatives and friends IRL and on social media have been bitching about this and are not going to vote for Biden, not even the ones who were "Vote Blue No Matter Who" just a few days ago.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on August 11, 2020, 07:22:25 PM
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1144393
The problem is that as much as Trump is disliked, Kamala is just as hated if not more.

Biden more or less lost the support of BLM with that move. Some of my SJW relatives and friends IRL and on social media have been bitching about this and are not going to vote for Biden, not even the ones who were "Vote Blue No Matter Who" just a few days ago.

I have to wonder if this announcement strengthens Kanye's chances.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 12, 2020, 08:07:10 AM
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1144393
The problem is that as much as Trump is disliked, Kamala is just as hated if not more.

Biden more or less lost the support of BLM with that move. Some of my SJW relatives and friends IRL and on social media have been bitching about this and are not going to vote for Biden, not even the ones who were "Vote Blue No Matter Who" just a few days ago.

I'll be honest, I'm scratching my head here. Unless the point is 'check off the duhversity boxes', why put Roundheels Harris on the ticket?

She doesn't deliver a swing state. Her CV is tainted with Willie Brown's spunk. Her charisma is at best mediocre and that plastic surgery job she got looks like a bad photoshop.

And hilariously, Biden is already talking about how Harris will be the one to lead us in 2021. At this rate I wonder if Biden will survive to the election!
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on August 12, 2020, 08:47:50 AM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1144384
I assume everyone is aware that Biden named Kamala Harris as his running mate.

And I still have not stopped laughing! This is some of the best political comedy out there!
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on August 12, 2020, 01:53:42 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1144498
I'll be honest, I'm scratching my head here. Unless the point is 'check off the duhversity boxes', why put Roundheels Harris on the ticket?

She doesn't deliver a swing state. Her CV is tainted with Willie Brown's spunk. Her charisma is at best mediocre and that plastic surgery job she got looks like a bad photoshop.

And hilariously, Biden is already talking about how Harris will be the one to lead us in 2021. At this rate I wonder if Biden will survive to the election!


The reason they went "Joe & The Ho" was because she was the best compromise they could do.
Everybody knows that the VP is their choice for the top spot, that was part of why they took so long to decide.
Joe painted them into a corner and they had to use a minority woman.
She was the 'best' option in the field.

They can't go with Bass (Increase the hard left vote) because she is too socialist and moderates are already running scared.  The riots are costing them too much.

Rice is out because she is uniparty establishment.  She would cost them more of the hard left than Harris and her attachment to the previous admin is dangerous for them.  (Suppose DJT says 'Well since we can't prosecute, here is a bunch of declassified info on the Russia investigation that no longer has to be kept hidden due to possible criminal proceedings.")

That really just leaves Harris, who will cost some of the hard left and some of the black vote, but probably less overall than the other two.

...plus it will be harder to target her with the whole casting couch thing given Trrump's history and the fact that Pence is probably not mean enough to go that route.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Steven Mitchell on August 12, 2020, 03:26:59 PM
Quote from: moonsweeper;1144542
The reason they went "Joe & The Ho" was because she was the best compromise they could do.
Everybody knows that the VP is their choice for the top spot, that was part of why they took so long to decide.
Joe painted them into a corner and they had to use a minority woman.
She was the 'best' option in the field.

They can't go with Bass (Increase the hard left vote) because she is too socialist and moderates are already running scared.  The riots are costing them too much.

Rice is out because she is uniparty establishment.  She would cost them more of the hard left than Harris and her attachment to the previous admin is dangerous for them.  (Suppose DJT says 'Well since we can't prosecute, here is a bunch of declassified info on the Russia investigation that no longer has to be kept hidden due to possible criminal proceedings.")

That really just leaves Harris, who will cost some of the hard left and some of the black vote, but probably less overall than the other two.

...plus it will be harder to target her with the whole casting couch thing given Trump's history and the fact that Pence is probably not mean enough to go that route.

They could also be reading their internal polls and cutting their losses early.  Partially because a lot of people in the party don't like her, but also because when you are dealing with a long shot, might as well go for a full ticket full of baggage to rub everyone's nose in it if the long shot pays off.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 12, 2020, 04:03:45 PM
I love to see people call Kamala African-American when she's of Indian-Jamaican descent.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on August 12, 2020, 05:29:10 PM
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1144559
They could also be reading their internal polls and cutting their losses early.  Partially because a lot of people in the party don't like her, but also because when you are dealing with a long shot, might as well go for a full ticket full of baggage to rub everyone's nose in it if the long shot pays off.

Tim Poole has made similar statements, although more along the lines of being sacrificial goats while they prepare for 2024.

I really hope that is not the case.  If their polls are actually that bad, then I'm worried about where the situation ends.

If they truly 'know' they are going too lose this round, that means their actions have crossed a whole other moral event horizon.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Chris24601 on August 12, 2020, 07:54:16 PM
Quote from: moonsweeper;1144583
If they truly 'know' they are going too lose this round, that means their actions have crossed a whole other moral event horizon.

One thing you have to understand about critical theory is that there is no bottom to it. There is no point where an adherent will stop and say "THIS is beyond the pale, it would be wrong." There is only "can we get away with doing it."

Once you accept that the people in charge are literally and criminally insane and warped by utter rage at all those who voted against their ascension to a permanent aristocratic class, that they've been indoctrinating an entire generation to be their useful dupes and that individual lives simply do not matter to them except as means to political power you'll find you can accurately predict their actions with depressing consistency.

They are absolutely setting up to burn the country down in a self-immolating "if I can't have it, no one will" end game. It's not the first choice, but for the paymasters egging these nuts on who seek a globalist world order, it's an acceptable alternative.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Steven Mitchell on August 12, 2020, 09:32:14 PM
Quote from: moonsweeper;1144583
Tim Poole has made similar statements, although more along the lines of being sacrificial goats while they prepare for 2024.

I really hope that is not the case.  If their polls are actually that bad, then I'm worried about where the situation ends.

If they truly 'know' they are going too lose this round, that means their actions have crossed a whole other moral event horizon.

Well, they still think the House is in the bag and that the Senates is in play.  Giving the amount of cheating they have planned and the complete cluelessness (when not outright traitors--e.g. Mitt Romney, spit!) of the GOP establishment, they may very well be correct. In some ways, they'd rather win those, hamstring Trump's second term, and generally cause trouble.  I think the more likely outcome is moderate GOP gains in the House offset by some minor losses, which falls 5 to 10 short of flipping it.  The Senate is probably a straight wash, though could net the Dems +1 if McSally can't get her act together or Kelly stops shooting himself in the foot.  OTOH, all the leftist psychosis could cause a handful of pleasant surprises the other way, too.

Of course, if I'm right in those outcomes, then 2022 will be a rare blood-bath for off-year opposition party in the House and Senate.  The net GOP won't change much in 2020, but we are getting some weasels replaced with decent candidates.  That will help roast them for their Pelosi tricks (assuming she makes it that long).  The 2022 Senate map is horrible for the Dems.  Not to mention, the 2020 Census, even with all the Dem governor/legislature/courts tricks is going to be brutal to their House line up and their electoral prospects in 2024.  

Realignments are never pretty.  We are clearly out of the ramp up phase and into the heart of it.  There will be a lot of political scalps gathered before we are done.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on August 12, 2020, 10:03:51 PM
Quote from: Chris24601;1144611

They are absolutely setting up to burn the country down in a self-immolating "if I can't have it, no one will" end game. It's not the first choice, but for the paymasters egging these nuts on who seek a globalist world order, it's an acceptable alternative.


Yeah, I get the insanity of it.  I just don't think they truly grasp what crossing the line between 'self-defense' and 'war' actually means.  That's what bothers me...
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Chris24601 on August 13, 2020, 12:09:05 AM
Quote from: moonsweeper;1144636
Yeah, I get the insanity of it.  I just don't think they truly grasp what crossing the line between 'self-defense' and 'war' actually means.  That's what bothers me...

Oh, the people actually calling the shots (and I don't mean Chuck and Nancy) know EXACTLY what it means and a broken and divided America is exactly in their best interests.

In 2016 the "managed decline" of the United States as a world power under Hillary (and the rise of a Chinese/Globalist money men hegemony with its slave labor and fixed outcomes to replace it) was the plan.

Now they're hoping for an American torn apart by a Civil War being too weakened to oppose their moves to likely seize Taiwan and its assets, bully India and South Korea, re-establish planned the Belt and Road exploitation of the third world and Chinese 5G surveillance state dream, end the sanctions on Iran (so many kickbacks) and finish the job of exporting American jobs and resources to their Chinese slave labor camps.

All in the name of endless greed and thirst for power by people who fashion themselves Masters of the Universe and wish to control everyone's lives from cradle to grave because they believe we're too stupid to make our decisions and that they deserve all the fruits of others' labors because they'll use them more effectively than we could... even if that means we starve because we're not useful for their plans.

There are TRILLIONS of dollars at stake and a free and independent America stands in their way. The truth is they aren't really after President Trump; they're after US and he just happens to be in the way.

The Democrat and 90% of the elected representatives of the Republican party are just their bought-off flunkies directed how to vote by K-Street lobbyists on legislation written by multi-national corporate lawyers.

This didn't happen overnight... it's been the work of decades (100 years with the last serious pushback before the people elected President Trump being three decades prior) and it will take decades to fully reverse. President Trump has bought us some time and, if re-elected, can lay a strong foundation, but the real battle will be in 2024 when the people will have to push back against the Establishment Republican pick and elect another America First populist fighter to continue the restoration.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on August 13, 2020, 12:21:25 AM
Greetings!

There can never be a one world Globalist government as long as there is a strong, unified and free America.

For a Globalist government to succeed, America must be disunited, weak, and broke.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: blackstone on August 13, 2020, 08:01:49 AM
Quote from: Chris24601;1144648
Oh, the people actually calling the shots (and I don't mean Chuck and Nancy) know EXACTLY what it means and a broken and divided America is exactly in their best interests.

In 2016 the "managed decline" of the United States as a world power under Hillary (and the rise of a Chinese/Globalist money men hegemony with its slave labor and fixed outcomes to replace it) was the plan.

Now they're hoping for an American torn apart by a Civil War being too weakened to oppose their moves to likely seize Taiwan and its assets, bully India and South Korea, re-establish planned the Belt and Road exploitation of the third world and Chinese 5G surveillance state dream, end the sanctions on Iran (so many kickbacks) and finish the job of exporting American jobs and resources to their Chinese slave labor camps.

All in the name of endless greed and thirst for power by people who fashion themselves Masters of the Universe and wish to control everyone's lives from cradle to grave because they believe we're too stupid to make our decisions and that they deserve all the fruits of others' labors because they'll use them more effectively than we could... even if that means we starve because we're not useful for their plans.

There are TRILLIONS of dollars at stake and a free and independent America stands in their way. The truth is they aren't really after President Trump; they're after US and he just happens to be in the way.

The Democrat and 90% of the elected representatives of the Republican party are just their bought-off flunkies directed how to vote by K-Street lobbyists on legislation written by multi-national corporate lawyers.

This didn't happen overnight... it's been the work of decades (100 years with the last serious pushback before the people elected President Trump being three decades prior) and it will take decades to fully reverse. President Trump has bought us some time and, if re-elected, can lay a strong foundation, but the real battle will be in 2024 when the people will have to push back against the Establishment Republican pick and elect another America First populist fighter to continue the restoration.

^^^THIS 100%^^^

I can't stress how accurate the above statement is. I've made the case in several threads in the past that the PRC for the past 25 years have slowly built up their military and economic stature. A few known facts:

- build up of economic base: building cheap products for the West and using slave labor. Also the PRC have bought up a good chunk of the debt the USA has created, basically a way to put a stranglehold on the USA if push came to shove

- natural resources: Spratley Islands are a hotly contested area in SE Asia. there just a bunch of coral rocks jutting out of the water...with a shit load of OIL sitting right under it. they didn't build a military base on a piece of shit atoll there for nothing. The PRC have bought up mineral rights in Africa for strategic metals and minerals (which includes oil). In return, said African nations get cheap goods, which includes some military equipment and rights to use ports.

-Military: Speaking of ports: the PRC Navy isn't just going to have two carriers for shits and giggles, along with a rather impressive submarine fleet (79 active vs. 68 active for the USN). History tells us that any great power has a large navy to project power over the horizon. Plus they've slowly modernized their Army and Air Force. Don't kid yourself, all of this is for keeping their eye of the prize: Taiwan. Hell, the Commandant the the Marine Corps has acknowledged this recently: the USMC is removing all of it's armor units and going back to being a more mobile amphibious force, just in case we have to deal with an aggressive PRC in the Pacific.

-diplomatic relations: since the end of Cold War I (we're now in Cold War II: don't kid yourself), the PRC have done quite a bit to improve relations with Russia. With that being said, since they've had better relations, the pressure between the two has lessened considerably. this allows both nations to redirect their attentions elsewhere, such as Russia showing new interest in reestablishing old military bases in the Arctic and performing old school overflights near Alaska and our fleet. Relations with India have always been stressful, and we're talking centuries old bad blood between the two. Today, it's no different. To counter this, The USA have made much better relations with India, which IMO the should have a long time ago, and rightly so. India is the world's largest democracy population-wise. they also have a very robust military (you'd have one to if the PRC was right on your fucking doorstep), and we've had a few joint fleet exercises with them. Also, Japan have been making several moves to be more proactive in regards to the PRC: they've enacted a few laws that allows the Japanese Self-Defense Forces to react more freely when it comes to military aggression from the PRC and North Korea...

-North Korea: the literal wild card. if the feces hits the rotating blade, it's because the North Koreans have started some shit, and the PRC will use it as an excuse to make moves throughout SE Asia. They hope that the DPRK will bear the brunt of the blow, while the PRC gets the spoils with little effort or recourse. In other words: North Korea is the PRC's meat shield when a war starts.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on August 13, 2020, 03:02:47 PM
Quote from: blackstone;1144670
Also the PRC have bought up a good chunk of the debt the USA has created, basically a way to put a stranglehold on the USA if push came to shove

They don't hold that much. China holds about $1.1 trillion in US debt, which is less than 5% of the total. If push came to shove, the Federal Reserve would just print that much in cash, and give it to the Chinese. It's not a tool of control.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/080615/china-owns-us-debt-how-much.asp
https://howmuch.net/articles/foreign-holders-of-us-debt-2020
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RandyB on August 13, 2020, 03:21:28 PM
Quote from: blackstone;1144670
^^^THIS 100%^^^

I can't stress how accurate the above statement is. I've made the case in several threads in the past that the PRC for the past 25 years have slowly built up their military and economic stature. A few known facts:

- build up of economic base: building cheap products for the West and using slave labor. Also the PRC have bought up a good chunk of the debt the USA has created, basically a way to put a stranglehold on the USA if push came to shove

- natural resources: Spratley Islands are a hotly contested area in SE Asia. there just a bunch of coral rocks jutting out of the water...with a shit load of OIL sitting right under it. they didn't build a military base on a piece of shit atoll there for nothing. The PRC have bought up mineral rights in Africa for strategic metals and minerals (which includes oil). In return, said African nations get cheap goods, which includes some military equipment and rights to use ports.

-Military: Speaking of ports: the PRC Navy isn't just going to have two carriers for shits and giggles, along with a rather impressive submarine fleet (79 active vs. 68 active for the USN). History tells us that any great power has a large navy to project power over the horizon. Plus they've slowly modernized their Army and Air Force. Don't kid yourself, all of this is for keeping their eye of the prize: Taiwan. Hell, the Commandant the the Marine Corps has acknowledged this recently: the USMC is removing all of it's armor units and going back to being a more mobile amphibious force, just in case we have to deal with an aggressive PRC in the Pacific.

-diplomatic relations: since the end of Cold War I (we're now in Cold War II: don't kid yourself), the PRC have done quite a bit to improve relations with Russia. With that being said, since they've had better relations, the pressure between the two has lessened considerably. this allows both nations to redirect their attentions elsewhere, such as Russia showing new interest in reestablishing old military bases in the Arctic and performing old school overflights near Alaska and our fleet. Relations with India have always been stressful, and we're talking centuries old bad blood between the two. Today, it's no different. To counter this, The USA have made much better relations with India, which IMO the should have a long time ago, and rightly so. India is the world's largest democracy population-wise. they also have a very robust military (you'd have one to if the PRC was right on your fucking doorstep), and we've had a few joint fleet exercises with them. Also, Japan have been making several moves to be more proactive in regards to the PRC: they've enacted a few laws that allows the Japanese Self-Defense Forces to react more freely when it comes to military aggression from the PRC and North Korea...

-North Korea: the literal wild card. if the feces hits the rotating blade, it's because the North Koreans have started some shit, and the PRC will use it as an excuse to make moves throughout SE Asia. They hope that the DPRK will bear the brunt of the blow, while the PRC gets the spoils with little effort or recourse. In other words: North Korea is the PRC's meat shield when a war starts.

China is one of the major players, no doubt. But don't become myopic - the threat to the U.S. is global, and consists of a variety of players of differing scope, all with a common cause - opposing the U.S.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 13, 2020, 10:05:49 PM
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on August 13, 2020, 10:52:43 PM
Maybe they all know the same person.  Six degrees of separation and all that...  

Shy Trump voters are likely a myth, but polls aren't perfect (https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/09/politics/trump-voters-analysis/index.html).

Anecdotally, I know a number of people who voted for Trump in 2016 that don't plan to do so in 2020.  All of the appeal of an 'outsider who can shake things up' doesn't sound as important today.  Now, maybe they'll reverse course (but I live in Tennessee, and their vote doesn't REALLY matter except for knowing how much Biden beat Trump in the popular vote) with concerns about Democrats gaining control of the House, Senate and White House.  But Biden isn't as scary as Clinton to them.  

What' been surprising to me is attacks on Kamala Harris indicating that she is both too liberal and too conservative.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 13, 2020, 11:20:13 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1144798
Maybe they all know the same person.  Six degrees of separation and all that...  

Shy Trump voters are likely a myth, but polls aren't perfect (https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/09/politics/trump-voters-analysis/index.html).

Anecdotally, I know a number of people who voted for Trump in 2016 that don't plan to do so in 2020.  All of the appeal of an 'outsider who can shake things up' doesn't sound as important today.  Now, maybe they'll reverse course (but I live in Tennessee, and their vote doesn't REALLY matter except for knowing how much Biden beat Trump in the popular vote) with concerns about Democrats gaining control of the House, Senate and White House.  But Biden isn't as scary as Clinton to them.  

What' been surprising to me is attacks on Kamala Harris indicating that she is both too liberal and too conservative.

Or maybe they are telling you they will not vote for the god emperor so you stop pestering them?

Yeah, it's so likely they all know the same people...

Biden is worst than Clinton, he'll just step aside and let Harris rule, and she's a douche canoe.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on August 13, 2020, 11:24:32 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1144798


What' been surprising to me is attacks on Kamala Harris indicating that she is both too liberal and too conservative.


Shouldn't be that surprising.  Of the 4, she has been the biggest mercenary opportunist during her political career.  That means everyone can find a bunch of things which she has done that they disagree with.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on August 13, 2020, 11:35:13 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1144798
Shy Trump voters are likely a myth, but polls aren't perfect (https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/09/politics/trump-voters-analysis/index.html).
That article misses the point. The argument I've seen is that people will say one thing to a pollster, and then go and vote a different way. So the idea that Republican voters are hiding out from pollsters is a strawman. And comparing live and phone polling may not be a reliable indicator anymore, because everyone knows everything is recorded and tracked, i.e. people worrying they'll end up on a "list".

And modeling was a bigger problem in 2016 than the polls.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on August 13, 2020, 11:35:53 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1144803
Or maybe they are telling you they will not vote for the god emperor so you stop pestering them?

Yeah, it's so likely they all know the same people...

Biden is worst than Clinton, he'll just step aside and let Harris rule, and she's a douche canoe.


Greetings!

Well, besides arming the fuck up with lots of weapons, ammunition, and other gear, I have also contributed money to the God Emperor's campaign. I also plan to attend more patriot rallies, and I always encourage fellow citizens I meet to support the God Emperor, and get armed and ready! I also intend to vote *in person*--like I have done all of my life.

Everywhere I go, from the grocery store, my church, the auto shop, the gun store, the barber shop--I meet more and more people that support the God Emperor!:D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on August 14, 2020, 04:31:25 AM
I am fascinated about what happened between August 1st when Politico "accidentally" leaked their story about Horizontal Harris being VP (with a quote from the Biden campaign) and August 10th when they officially announced. What was really happening for those 9 days?  


Quote from: Chris24601;1144648
There are TRILLIONS of dollars at stake and a free and independent America stands in their way. The truth is they aren't really after President Trump; they're after US and he just happens to be in the way.


Exactly. But we're so undermined after decades of indoctrination that most of the country won't even mind being enslaved as long as they keep their iPhones.


Quote from: SHARK;1144649
There can never be a one world Globalist government as long as there is a strong, unified and free America.

For a Globalist government to succeed, America must be disunited, weak, and broke.


That second sentence described America 2020 quite accurately.


Quote from: SHARK;1144807
Everywhere I go, from the grocery store, my church, the auto shop, the gun store, the barber shop--I meet more and more people that support the God Emperor!:D


But you're not in a swing state. Biden isn't going to spend a dime in Idaho.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on August 16, 2020, 02:01:59 AM
Greetings!

An Australian news organization interviews two black Americans on recent polling, riots, and more Americans--turning against BLM. The black American woman, Shameka Michelle, engaged with a white BLM protestor, and schooled him severely on video.:D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mjollnir on August 16, 2020, 05:37:58 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1144498
I'll be honest, I'm scratching my head here. Unless the point is 'check off the duhversity boxes', why put Roundheels Harris on the ticket?

She doesn't deliver a swing state. Her CV is tainted with Willie Brown's spunk. Her charisma is at best mediocre and that plastic surgery job she got looks like a bad photoshop.

And hilariously, Biden is already talking about how Harris will be the one to lead us in 2021. At this rate I wonder if Biden will survive to the election!

I think they chose her because they're so confident Biden will win that they don't need a VP who'll deliver any states. She's basically the ideal rootless neo-Liberal functionary.She has no natural base of support that  a politician might rely upon if he wanted to go against the wishes of the financial interests, and likewise there's no constituency whose interests she might be tempted to represent due to natural human and community ties. She's nothing but an empty, ambitious social climber, the perfect tool.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on August 16, 2020, 12:55:04 PM
Quote from: Mjollnir;1145076
I think they chose her because they're so confident Biden will win that they don't need a VP who'll deliver any states.

There hasn't been a VP who delivered a state since arguably Kennedy's selection of LBJ.  Fact Check (https://www.factcheck.org/2008/07/do-vp-candidates-win-states/)

More often a VP is seen as a way to 'balance' a ticket.  A youthful presidential candidate (like George W or Barrack) often chooses an experienced elder statesman (like Cheney or Biden), while an older candidate often chooses someone youthful (like McCain choosing Palin).  

Biden was looking for a VP candidate that would have broad appeal and bring some energy to the ticket.  For a lot of people, a woman, and specifically a black woman, seemed to be important criteria to confirm that the Democratic party is committed to policies that are important to their most committed constituency (as opposed to taking the support of blacks for granted).  

There are a lot of reasons why under normal circumstances, Biden might be confident - things like the incumbent has NEVER won an election when 2nd Quarter GDP dropped like it did this year - but this is not going to be a normal election.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 16, 2020, 01:51:27 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1145103
There are a lot of reasons why under normal circumstances, Biden might be confident - things like the incumbent has NEVER won an election when 2nd Quarter GDP dropped like it did this year - but this is not going to be a normal election.

That's the thing. Covid is the reason why the economy tanked, not Trump. I think most people realize that. But then, there's a lot of derranged anti-Trumpers who blame him for everything and anything in an attempt to fight back against the bad orange man.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on August 16, 2020, 05:24:00 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1145112
That's the thing. Covid is the reason why the economy tanked, not Trump. I think most people realize that. But then, there's a lot of derranged anti-Trumpers who blame him for everything and anything in an attempt to fight back against the bad orange man.

Some people don't think the economy is the only issue, whether they blame him for it or not.  While I don't think Trump is directly responsible for Covid, I do think that he is responsible for the National response.  

His claim I don't take responsibility at all (https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-05-08/trumps-new-2020-message-its-not-my-fault) is undignified for the leader of the free world, and completely opposite of Truman's The Buck Stops Here (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_buck_stops_here).  

My major in college was International Relations, and I've always understood that Americans distrust International organizations (like the UN), but we supported and created them because they allowed us to amplify and wield 'soft power' in the world.  The US Iran Embargo (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/14/us-iran-un-arms-embargo-nuclear-deal) is a clear sign of our diminished position in international politics.  The failure of the Commander-in-chief to respond in any way to Russian bounties on American Troops (https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/07/29/trump-says-he-didnt-raise-issue-of-bounties-on-us-troops-during-phone-call-with-putin/) is a dereliction of duty that I think an argument could be made that it borders on treasonous.  Trump's message in 2016 - Make America Great Again - never rang true for me, because this nation has ALWAYS been great.  There have always been areas where we could seek to make improvements, and that's still true today.  But instead of advancing American interests, we've been stymied by an inability to support our existing treaties.  

Everyone should know the Fable of the Bundle of Sticks (https://www.thoughtco.com/aesops-fable-the-bundle-of-sticks-118589) - even if we're the strongest, we're even stronger when we work with our allies.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on August 16, 2020, 06:13:38 PM
Greetings!

"Russian Bounties." That's all bullshit being pushed by the Democrats in yet *again* another bowl of bullshit covered in nothingburger steak sauce. US Intelligence officials have reported that there wasn't anything worthwhile to the story--which has been known to US Intelligence for a long time.

Just more anti-Trump nonsense by the Democrats.

The UN is a useless, pathetic organization full of weak, sniveling cowards, and most of which love opposing a strong America on a regular basis. So, fuck what the UN thinks.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 16, 2020, 06:45:15 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1145135
Some people don't think the economy is the only issue, whether they blame him for it or not.  While I don't think Trump is directly responsible for Covid, I do think that he is responsible for the National response.  

I don't. Nancy Pelosi notoriously ripped up Trumps speech on the Covid issue, and Democrats and the media were claiming Covid was not a serious threat in February. They came around when the death toll started to mount. The whole of the US government and the individual states and the media have to take their share of the responsibility.

Quote
His claim I don't take responsibility at all (https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-05-08/trumps-new-2020-message-its-not-my-fault) is undignified for the leader of the free world, and completely opposite of Truman's The Buck Stops Here (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_buck_stops_here).  

My major in college was International Relations, and I've always understood that Americans distrust International organizations (like the UN), but we supported and created them because they allowed us to amplify and wield 'soft power' in the world.  The US Iran Embargo (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/14/us-iran-un-arms-embargo-nuclear-deal) is a clear sign of our diminished position in international politics.  The failure of the Commander-in-chief to respond in any way to Russian bounties on American Troops (https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/07/29/trump-says-he-didnt-raise-issue-of-bounties-on-us-troops-during-phone-call-with-putin/) is a dereliction of duty that I think an argument could be made that it borders on treasonous.  Trump's message in 2016 - Make America Great Again - never rang true for me, because this nation has ALWAYS been great.  There have always been areas where we could seek to make improvements, and that's still true today.  But instead of advancing American interests, we've been stymied by an inability to support our existing treaties.  

Everyone should know the Fable of the Bundle of Sticks (https://www.thoughtco.com/aesops-fable-the-bundle-of-sticks-118589) - even if we're the strongest, we're even stronger when we work with our allies.

Yes. And Obama drone bombed civilians. This is the kind of usual rhetoric around leaders that fades into the background noise of partisan politics.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on August 16, 2020, 07:19:36 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1145135
Some people don't think the economy is the only issue, whether they blame him for it or not.  While I don't think Trump is directly responsible for Covid, I do think that he is responsible for the National response.  

His claim I don't take responsibility at all (https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-05-08/trumps-new-2020-message-its-not-my-fault) is undignified for the leader of the free world, and completely opposite of Truman's The Buck Stops Here (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_buck_stops_here).

He left the local decision-making to the local executives who knew their individual situations better and offered federal support if they needed it.  His national response was to shutdown travel from China where the virus came from. My memory is failing me on whether he caught political flak for that decision or not.  I can't seem to recall what the WHO and China had to say about the virus either.  Could you please remind me?

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1145135
My major in college was International Relations, and I've always understood that Americans distrust International organizations (like the UN), but we supported and created them because they allowed us to amplify and wield 'soft power' in the world.  The US Iran Embargo (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/14/us-iran-un-arms-embargo-nuclear-deal) is a clear sign of our diminished position in international politics.  The failure of the Commander-in-chief to respond in any way to Russian bounties on American Troops (https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/07/29/trump-says-he-didnt-raise-issue-of-bounties-on-us-troops-during-phone-call-with-putin/) is a dereliction of duty that I think an argument could be made that it borders on treasonous.  Trump's message in 2016 - Make America Great Again - never rang true for me, because this nation has ALWAYS been great.  There have always been areas where we could seek to make improvements, and that's still true today.  But instead of advancing American interests, we've been stymied by an inability to support our existing treaties.  

Everyone should know the Fable of the Bundle of Sticks (https://www.thoughtco.com/aesops-fable-the-bundle-of-sticks-118589) - even if we're the strongest, we're even stronger when we work with our allies.

Never mind.  I didn't realize you were running for the resident Neocon position here at the RPGsite.  I withdraw my questions since I don't expect an honest answer.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mjollnir on August 16, 2020, 08:54:52 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1145135
My major in college was International Relations, and I've always understood that Americans distrust International organizations (like the UN), but we supported and created them because they allowed us to amplify and wield 'soft power' in the world.  The US Iran Embargo (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/14/us-iran-un-arms-embargo-nuclear-deal) is a clear sign of our diminished position in international politics.  The failure of the Commander-in-chief to respond in any way to Russian bounties on American Troops (https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/07/29/trump-says-he-didnt-raise-issue-of-bounties-on-us-troops-during-phone-call-with-putin/) is a dereliction of duty that I think an argument could be made that it borders on treasonous.  Trump's message in 2016 - Make America Great Again - never rang true for me, because this nation has ALWAYS been great.  There have always been areas where we could seek to make improvements, and that's still true today.  But instead of advancing American interests, we've been stymied by an inability to support our existing treaties.  

Can you please explain to me what interest I have in advancing "American" neo-Liberal hegemony across the world? To be totally honest, I can't think of many foreign countries I hate enough to wish "American" influence on.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1145135
Everyone should know the Fable of the Bundle of Sticks (https://www.thoughtco.com/aesops-fable-the-bundle-of-sticks-118589) - even if we're the strongest, we're even stronger when we work with our allies.

I've gotta admit, the "bundle of sticks" is a good metaphor.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on August 16, 2020, 10:46:31 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1145112
That's the thing. Covid is the reason why the economy tanked, not Trump.

Don't buy into the attempts at displacement. The economy didn't tank because of a natural disaster, it tanked because of government-inflicted sanctions. Without the shutdowns, the economic effects would have been much milder.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 16, 2020, 11:48:47 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1145135
Some people don't think the economy is the only issue, whether they blame him for it or not.  While I don't think Trump is directly responsible for Covid, I do think that he is responsible for the National response.  

His claim I don't take responsibility at all (https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-05-08/trumps-new-2020-message-its-not-my-fault) is undignified for the leader of the free world, and completely opposite of Truman's The Buck Stops Here (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_buck_stops_here).  

My major in college was International Relations, and I've always understood that Americans distrust International organizations (like the UN), but we supported and created them because they allowed us to amplify and wield 'soft power' in the world.  The US Iran Embargo (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/14/us-iran-un-arms-embargo-nuclear-deal) is a clear sign of our diminished position in international politics.  The failure of the Commander-in-chief to respond in any way to Russian bounties on American Troops (https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/07/29/trump-says-he-didnt-raise-issue-of-bounties-on-us-troops-during-phone-call-with-putin/) is a dereliction of duty that I think an argument could be made that it borders on treasonous.  Trump's message in 2016 - Make America Great Again - never rang true for me, because this nation has ALWAYS been great.  There have always been areas where we could seek to make improvements, and that's still true today.  But instead of advancing American interests, we've been stymied by an inability to support our existing treaties.  

Everyone should know the Fable of the Bundle of Sticks (https://www.thoughtco.com/aesops-fable-the-bundle-of-sticks-118589) - even if we're the strongest, we're even stronger when we work with our allies.


Sounding very fascist there... You might want to rethink your positions you imperialist Yankee commie.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on August 17, 2020, 12:23:15 AM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1145135
Everyone should know the Fable of the Bundle of Sticks (https://www.thoughtco.com/aesops-fable-the-bundle-of-sticks-118589) - even if we're the strongest, we're even stronger when we work with our allies.

I see what you did there. (https://www.britannica.com/topic/fasces) (In case anyone missed it.)
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mjollnir on August 17, 2020, 12:48:02 AM
As a bundle-of-sticks enthusiast I unequivocally disavow any and all forms of Yankee Imperialism.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 17, 2020, 04:25:20 PM
God, the post office conspiracy theories make it seem like the Democrats are so sure Trump is going to win, that they're already setting up their excuses as to how Trump "cheated".
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RandyB on August 17, 2020, 04:54:42 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1145292
God, the post office conspiracy theories make it seem like the Democrats are so sure Trump is going to win, that they're already setting up their excuses as to how Trump "cheated".

Yes. Yes they are.

Their methods of cheating have been shut down, so they are projecting in order to set the stage to reject the results.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 18, 2020, 03:35:54 AM
The Dems cheating!? Why I never! :rolleyes:

Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on August 18, 2020, 10:15:26 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1145336
The Dems cheating!? Why I never! :rolleyes:

Poole makes a decent point I haven't seen elsewhere: A major postal union endorsed Biden on the 14th. That's a pretty serious conflict of interest.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 18, 2020, 12:08:47 PM
Quote from: Pat;1145364
Poole makes a decent point I haven't seen elsewhere: A major postal union endorsed Biden on the 14th. That's a pretty serious conflict of interest.

Keep in mind the whole 'Trump is sabotaging the USPS' is a load of shit. A pretty good breakdown of the scam is here (https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2020/08/the-us-post-office-and-elections-lies.html).
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on August 18, 2020, 12:15:12 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1145383
Keep in mind the whole 'Trump is sabotaging the USPS' is a load of shit. A pretty good breakdown of the scam is here (https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2020/08/the-us-post-office-and-elections-lies.html).
That was the main thrust of Pool's video, but it's been covered elsewhere. That's why I pointed out the one thing that seemed new to me.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RandyB on August 18, 2020, 12:16:25 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1145383
Keep in mind the whole 'Trump is sabotaging the USPS' is a load of shit. A pretty good breakdown of the scam is here (https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2020/08/the-us-post-office-and-elections-lies.html).


And an interesting wrinkle in the whole saga is summarized here (https://bradfordcwalker.blogspot.com/2020/08/narrative-warfare-tech-that-kills.html).
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 18, 2020, 02:00:07 PM
Quote from: RandyB;1145388
And an interesting wrinkle in the whole saga is summarized here (https://bradfordcwalker.blogspot.com/2020/08/narrative-warfare-tech-that-kills.html).

Well now.

If this works... and there is a LOT hanging on that 'if' ... it's going to change things dramatically.

I don't believe in miracles or silver bullets, but let's see if Trump can pull a rabbit out of his hair one more time.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on August 18, 2020, 02:16:32 PM
Quote from: RandyB;1145388
And an interesting wrinkle in the whole saga is summarized here (https://bradfordcwalker.blogspot.com/2020/08/narrative-warfare-tech-that-kills.html).

First of all, the blog claims "Hey this was filed in Feb. of 2019" when the image itself says "Filed: Feb 7, 2020". While I haven't fully read the patent, I am very suspicious of suddenly rolling out a brand-new blockchain-based system. Any online verification system seems likely to have potential for social/physical hacking even if it is cryptographically secure. Here's a CryptoNews article on the patent and the patent itself:

https://cryptonews.com/news/us-postal-service-bets-on-ethereum-blockchain-in-patented-vo-7456.htm
https://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0&docid=20200258338&IDKey=7A4F4EA40D1F

Personally, I would favor law enforcement as the first priority. All agencies with jurisdiction should conduct investigations and attempt sting operations. This won't catch all of the fraud, but it has the advantage of sending fraudsters to jail rather than leaving them free to try other means of swaying elections. More importantly, they could turn over evidence of corrupt politicians backing them.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on August 18, 2020, 02:17:11 PM
I'm laughing inside at the idea that the government is technologically adept enough to implement a blockchain voter ID system before November.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 18, 2020, 02:47:37 PM
Quote from: Pat;1145404
I'm laughing inside at the idea that the government is technologically adept enough to implement a blockchain voter ID system before November.

The government especially, but I don't think anyone can implement any massive changes to the voting system within the next few months. Not mail in voting (unless the state already has it in place) much less some crypto black box bitchain system that few people really understand and trust with their vote.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on August 18, 2020, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1145407
The government especially, but I don't think anyone can implement any massive changes to the voting system within the next few months. Not mail in voting (unless the state already has it in place) much less some crypto black box bitchain system that few people really understand and trust with their vote.

All 50 states have a mail-in voting system. State laws differ on whether someone qualifies for mail-in voting, but they at least have the structures in place to do it. Only a few states like Utah had moved to mail-in voting as the default already, but that's just a matter of operation. The system for voting is there, at least.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on August 18, 2020, 06:19:46 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1145432
All 50 states have a mail-in voting system. State laws differ on whether someone qualifies for mail-in voting, but they at least have the structures in place to do it. Only a few states like Utah had moved to mail-in voting as the default already, but that's just a matter of operation. The system for voting is there, at least.


Yes. And all they have to do is request an absentee ballot just like Trump has stated numerous times...

so please tell us what Orange Man Bad is actually suppressing?
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on August 18, 2020, 06:31:06 PM
Quote from: moonsweeper;1145434
so please tell us what Orange Man Bad is actually suppressing?

The ability to harvest an additional 60M ballots so that Biden has a chance in hell of winning?
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 18, 2020, 06:33:54 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1145432
All 50 states have a mail-in voting system. State laws differ on whether someone qualifies for mail-in voting, but they at least have the structures in place to do it. Only a few states like Utah had moved to mail-in voting as the default already, but that's just a matter of operation. The system for voting is there, at least.


Do you think they have the infrastructure set up to handle a massive shift to mail in voting within a few months? Considering the USPS has been downsizing for years, I serously doubt it.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: tenbones on August 18, 2020, 07:10:46 PM
We should go full Heinlein - Citizenship and the right vote has to be earned.

You have to give service - military or civilian service for a period of at least two years. Only then do you get citizenship and right to vote.

Everyone else - enjoy what you've earned. You just don't get to make decisions.

Personally I think this is too easy - I'd go full Herbert and institute an added fundamental layer: the Gom Jabbar. You have to prove you're human and not an NPC first. So only humans can become civilians. Then civilians have to choose to earn Citizenship. The rest of the NPC primates will have less rights, which won't matter because they're too stupid to realize it.

I mean look at all the morons that think we have all these "rights" that don't exist now, but believe it with all the powers of the Holy Rheeee! We're practically there now.

What have we got to lose? LOL
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Alathon on August 18, 2020, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: tenbones;1145440
We should go full Heinlein - Citizenship and the right vote has to be earned.

You have to give service - military or civilian service for a period of at least two years. Only then do you get citizenship and right to vote.

Everyone else - enjoy what you've earned. You just don't get to make decisions.

Personally I think this is too easy - I'd go full Herbert and institute an added fundamental layer: the Gom Jabbar. You have to prove you're human and not an NPC first. So only humans can become civilians. Then civilians have to choose to earn Citizenship. The rest of the NPC primates will have less rights, which won't matter because they're too stupid to realize it.

I mean look at all the morons that think we have all these "rights" that don't exist now, but believe it with all the powers of the Holy Rheeee! We're practically there now.

What have we got to lose? LOL

I'm willing to give up the vote, or accept some real risks for it, in return for denying authority to the TV watchers and antenna-heads.  These fuckers couldn't run a lemonade stand and have no loyalty to anything.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Steven Mitchell on August 18, 2020, 09:49:36 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1145432
All 50 states have a mail-in voting system. State laws differ on whether someone qualifies for mail-in voting, but they at least have the structures in place to do it. Only a few states like Utah had moved to mail-in voting as the default already, but that's just a matter of operation. The system for voting is there, at least.


Absentee voting is not designed to handle the volume of a full election.  Anyone that knows anything about the process first hand can tell you that.  It will break down on at least two fronts:  The process of getting the request of the ballot and mailing it out timely already has immense problems.  Solve that, and you'll overwhelm the receipt.  That's not even counting the fraud problems.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on August 19, 2020, 12:42:18 AM
Quote from: tenbones;1145440
Personally I think this is too easy - I'd go full Herbert and institute an added fundamental layer: the Gom Jabbar. You have to prove you're human and not an NPC first. So only humans can become civilians. Then civilians have to choose to earn Citizenship. The rest of the NPC primates will have less rights, which won't matter because they're too stupid to realize it.


As tempting as this sounds and as often as it has crossed my mind, how do we implement this IRL? I'm not sure that sticking someone's hand inside a pain-box while holding a poisoned needle to their neck ready to pinch them if they take their hand out accurately determines who's human (plus it would probably be considered a human rights violation). And I'm not sure high IQ is necessarily an indication that someone won't be an idiot about certain things or have serious lapses in judgement or critical thinking (e.g. Richard Dawkins on Brexit), so I don't think an IQ test would work either.

We need a way test people's critical thinking faculties that can't be abused by ideologues or elite cliques with an agenda.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 19, 2020, 07:56:07 AM
Quote from: tenbones;1145440
We should go full Heinlein - Citizenship and the right vote has to be earned.

You have to give service - military or civilian service for a period of at least two years. Only then do you get citizenship and right to vote.

Everyone else - enjoy what you've earned. You just don't get to make decisions.

Personally I think this is too easy - I'd go full Herbert and institute an added fundamental layer: the Gom Jabbar. You have to prove you're human and not an NPC first. So only humans can become civilians. Then civilians have to choose to earn Citizenship. The rest of the NPC primates will have less rights, which won't matter because they're too stupid to realize it.

I mean look at all the morons that think we have all these "rights" that don't exist now, but believe it with all the powers of the Holy Rheeee! We're practically there now.

What have we got to lose? LOL


Quote from: Alathon;1145455
I'm willing to give up the vote, or accept some real risks for it, in return for denying authority to the TV watchers and antenna-heads.  These fuckers couldn't run a lemonade stand and have no loyalty to anything.


Quote from: VisionStorm;1145471
As tempting as this sounds and as often as it has crossed my mind, how do we implement this IRL? I'm not sure that sticking someone's hand inside a pain-box while holding a poisoned needle to their neck ready to pinch them if they take their hand out accurately determines who's human (plus it would probably be considered a human rights violation). And I'm not sure high IQ is necessarily an indication that someone won't be an idiot about certain things or have serious lapses in judgement or critical thinking (e.g. Richard Dawkins on Brexit), so I don't think an IQ test would work either.

We need a way test people's critical thinking faculties that can't be abused by ideologues or elite cliques with an agenda.

A simpler method is this: you only get to vote in federal elections if you paid in one penny more in taxes than you received in subsidies or federal assistance.

In other words, you have to have skin in the game.

(Yes, I know, we still need to deal with things like corporate subsidies and crap like that. But this is a good start point.)
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on August 19, 2020, 12:55:13 PM
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1145460
Absentee voting is not designed to handle the volume of a full election.  Anyone that knows anything about the process first hand can tell you that.  It will break down on at least two fronts:  The process of getting the request of the ballot and mailing it out timely already has immense problems.  Solve that, and you'll overwhelm the receipt.  That's not even counting the fraud problems.
Yes, everything I've seen suggests scaling up from absentee voting (small percentage of the population) to universal mail-in voting is beyond the capability of the states who don't already have the infrastructure in place. The antiquated systems just can't handle it, or scale up that quickly. Contrary to the media narrative, the Post Office is not a bottleneck. Even if everyone in the country votes, it only amounts to a 1-2% increase in mail volume, which the Postmaster (a Trump appointee) and both postal unions (both have endorsed Biden) have said is no problem. Though it's worth noting there are significant delays delivering mail right now, and the deadlines for mailed-on ballots aren't based on postmark, but on the date the mail arrives.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on August 19, 2020, 05:55:36 PM
Quote from: Pat;1145509
Yes, everything I've seen suggests scaling up from absentee voting (small percentage of the population) to universal mail-in voting is beyond the capability of the states who don't already have the infrastructure in place.

The percentage varies widely from state to state because of differing laws. For many states, the percentage isn't that small. I would agree that some states will have trouble scaling up. But a lot of states already have a large percentage of votes cast either early or vote-by-mail -- not just blue states like California and Oregon, but also red states like Arizona and Utah.

https://www.eac.gov/documents/2017/10/17/eavs-deep-dive-early-absentee-and-mail-voting-data-statutory-overview

I think a shift of around 50% mail-in voting to 80% is not a big deal for a state. Arizona, for example, has reported being confident of scaling up.

https://coppercourier.com/story/arizona-confident-mail-in-voting/
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 19, 2020, 06:06:25 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1145551
The percentage varies widely from state to state because of differing laws. For many states, the percentage isn't that small. I would agree that some states will have trouble scaling up. But a lot of states already have a large percentage of votes cast either early or vote-by-mail -- not just blue states like California and Oregon, but also red states like Arizona and Utah.

https://www.eac.gov/documents/2017/10/17/eavs-deep-dive-early-absentee-and-mail-voting-data-statutory-overview

I think a shift of around 50% mail-in voting to 80% is not a big deal for a state. Arizona, for example, has reported being confident of scaling up.

https://coppercourier.com/story/arizona-confident-mail-in-voting/

Absentee ballots =/= vote by mail.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on August 19, 2020, 08:21:01 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1145551

I think a shift of around 50% mail-in voting to 80% is not a big deal for a state. Arizona, for example, has reported being confident of scaling up.

https://coppercourier.com/story/arizona-confident-mail-in-voting/

A majority of people already voting by mail means Arizona has extensive infrastructure in place, and they've revised the system to make it more efficient since the 2018 election, so it sounds like they have an up to date and relatively robust system.

I really doubt that's the norm. I'd like to see a good survey of the mail-in voting capabilities of all 51 states and district. Many voting systems around the country are old, brittle, and probably can't scale up quickly without massive failures. Three months before a Presidential election isn't a good time to experiment with the untested and untried.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on August 19, 2020, 08:39:06 PM
Quote from: Pat;1145578
A majority of people already voting by mail means Arizona has extensive infrastructure in place, and they've revised the system to make it more efficient since the 2018 election, so it sounds like they have an up to date and relatively robust system.

I really doubt that's the norm. I'd like to see a good survey of the mail-in voting capabilities of all 51 states and district. Many voting systems around the country are old, brittle, and probably can't scale up quickly without massive failures. Three months before a Presidential election isn't a good time to experiment with the untested and untried.
Vote by mail has been expanding a lot over the past two decades. Arizona might not be perfectly average among the 50 states, but it's not the cutting edge either. The cutting edge would be the five states like Utah and Oregon which already have entirely vote-by-mail. Here's an overview of the current status of vote-by-mail:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/08/11/us/politics/vote-by-mail-us-states.html

I agree that we shouldn't be rolling out untested and untried systems. I'm only talking about scaling up existing tested systems that already handle millions of voters. Opposing the untested and untried was exactly why I objected to the suggestion linked recently by RandyB and Ghostmaker that Trump should mandate by executive order the newly patented verification system, for example.

Quote from: RandyB;1145388
And an interesting wrinkle in the whole saga is summarized here (https://bradfordcwalker.blogspot.com/2020/08/narrative-warfare-tech-that-kills.html).
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1145401
Well now.

If this works... and there is a LOT hanging on that 'if' ... it's going to change things dramatically.

I don't believe in miracles or silver bullets, but let's see if Trump can pull a rabbit out of his hair one more time.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on August 19, 2020, 09:48:07 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1145589
Vote by mail has been expanding a lot over the past two decades. Arizona might not be perfectly average among the 50 states, but it's not the cutting edge either. The cutting edge would be the five states like Utah and Oregon which already have entirely vote-by-mail. Here's an overview of the current status of vote-by-mail:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/08/11/us/politics/vote-by-mail-us-states.html
Their interactive map lists PA as "absentee voting allowed for all". But they literally just passed that law, and the Post Office came out and told them their plan wouldn't work:
https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/pennsylvania-mail-voting-deadlines-post-office-lawsuit-20200813.html
So the maps is useless as a indicator of actual capability. It's just a list of the rules, including any half-assed post-sars2 statutory changes.

Quote from: jhkim;1145589
I agree that we shouldn't be rolling out untested and untried systems. I'm only talking about scaling up existing tested systems that already handle millions of voters.
Scaling up isn't automatic, either. Systems that are inflexible, out of date, or near capacity may have no real extra capacity. That's something that requires a state-by-state assessment, and not blanket generalizations.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on August 21, 2020, 11:19:55 PM
I've lived in vote by mail states. The only thing preventing fraud is a sense of honor.  There were elections where I received multiple ballots in the mail for people who'd lived at that address in the last few years. Apartments, especially.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 22, 2020, 09:45:20 PM
Tell me more about how safe and secure mail in voting is, comrades.
 (https://dailycaller.com/2020/08/20/judge-new-election-paterson-new-jersey-mail-in-voting-fraud/)
Because this doesn't exactly fill me with boundless confidence.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on August 22, 2020, 09:48:26 PM
As of August 4th, New York still hadn't counted all the votes (https://nypost.com/2020/08/04/judge-orders-new-york-state-to-count-invalidated-mail-in-ballots/) from the June primary.

Was that because Sanders actually beat Dementia JoJo in New York?

Or was it because Trump did too well in areas assumed locked down for Biden?
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on August 22, 2020, 09:52:08 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1146053
Because this doesn't exactly fill me with boundless confidence.

I'm filled with boundless confidence that mail in voting is voter fraud heaven....which is why the leftists want it.

If there was any chance that mail in voting would benefit Trump, the DNC would order their goons to start burning down USPS.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on August 22, 2020, 09:56:46 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1146054
As of August 4th, New York still hadn't counted all the votes (https://nypost.com/2020/08/04/judge-orders-new-york-state-to-count-invalidated-mail-in-ballots/) from the June primary.

Was that because Sanders actually beat Dementia JoJo in New York?

Or was it because Trump did too well in areas assumed locked down for Biden?

Greetings!

Well, since the fucking Democrats, the Media, the Deep State, have all been desperately trying to get rid of President Trump since his election in 2016, with Russia Gate, Ukraine Gate, Impeachment, and then the China Virus and the riots--and more fraudulent bullshit and conspiracies--it doesn't surprise any true Americans that these swine, these filthy, diseased rats, will seek to defraud the election in 2020, and hijack our Republic entirely. They will stop at nothing to gain power--and what the people want, or what the law says, or what the Constitution says--fuck all that. They will scheme to cheat in order to gain power. Mail in voting is one more bullshit element they plan to use to steal the election.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on August 22, 2020, 10:02:15 PM
Quote from: SHARK;1146057
more fraudulent bullshit and conspiracies

That's exactly what we should expect to see from SHARK too.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on August 22, 2020, 10:25:12 PM
We should be able to create secure online voting with biometric/face recognition and advances in encryption in the next decade, but I doubt we'd see such a system before 2030. Of course, that's not accounting for AI hacking tools which will probably arrive first.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on August 22, 2020, 11:07:30 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1146063
We should be able to create secure online voting with biometric/face recognition and advances in encryption in the next decade, but I doubt we'd see such a system before 2030. Of course, that's not accounting for AI hacking tools which will probably arrive first.
We also have to worry about quantum computers. They might fuck up encryption, and the theoretical ways to guarantee a message has been unread using quantum dynamics may be further off.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Steven Mitchell on August 23, 2020, 12:11:57 AM
Quote from: Pat;1146070
We also have to worry about quantum computers. They might fuck up encryption, and the theoretical ways to guarantee a message has been unread using quantum dynamics may be further off.

Notice how when voting methods come up, suddenly all the people that are very quick to castigate the USA for not following the leads of other countries ... are not interested at all in how it is done elsewhere.  That's because pretty much everywhere else uses paper ballots, often because that is the only way to have a secure method and allow for secure auditing.

The ideal is practically the paper ballot fed on premise through an electronic vote counter--and then the paper ballots secured for audit until the election results are fully certified (that is, once all challenges allowed by the process have been exercised or passed).
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on August 23, 2020, 12:17:44 AM
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1146076
Notice how when voting methods come up, suddenly all the people that are very quick to castigate the USA for not following the leads of other countries ... are not interested at all in how it is done elsewhere.  That's because pretty much everywhere else uses paper ballots, often because that is the only way to have a secure method and allow for secure auditing.

The ideal is practically the paper ballot fed on premise through an electronic vote counter--and then the paper ballots secured for audit until the election results are fully certified (that is, once all challenges allowed by the process have been exercised or passed).

Pretty much everywhere else also require voter IDs as part of the law - democrats hate that idea.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on August 24, 2020, 05:21:25 PM
From Politico (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/08/24/republicanmeltdown-trump-convention-400039)

Quote

It can now safely be said, as his first term in the White House draws toward closure, that Donald Trump's party is the very definition of a cult of personality. It stands for no special ideal. It possesses no organizing principle. It represents no detailed vision for governing. Filling the vacuum is a lazy, identity-based populism that draws from that lowest common denominator Sanford alluded to. If it agitates the base, if it lights up a Fox News chyron, if it serves to alienate sturdy real Americans from delicate coastal elites, then it's got a place in the Grand Old Party.

"Owning the libs and pissing off the media," shrugs Brendan Buck, a longtime senior congressional aide and imperturbable party veteran if ever there was one. "That's what we believe in now. There's really not much more to it."
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on August 24, 2020, 05:59:32 PM
Here's an interesting summary of cults of personality, by an academic:
https://abandonedfootnotes.blogspot.com/2011/03/simple-model-of-cults-of-personality.html

Cults of personality are traditionally defined as the populace believing outrageous things because they're persuaded those things are correct. Tight control of all sources of information is required, because otherwise people might hear alternatives which make more sense. That clearly doesn't apply to Trump, but does come close to true for the progressive ideology, which controls all mainstream media outlets save one, and is in the process of excluding all alternate voices from social media.

Marquez disputes that definition, correctly in my mind, pointing out that cults of personality aren't really about belief, but about signaling. The student Jun-sang didn't cry at Kim Il-sung's funeral (http://nothingtoenvy.com/) because he believed the Great Leader was truly great, but because people were watching, and his career and even life hinged on showing the proper level of respect. This closely parallels what's happening in response to George Floyd's death, with people being fired for following the wrong person on Twitter and stores putting up Black Lives Matter signs in hopes they won't be looted. They're being forced to signal fealty, in the hopes that they won't be next. What happened in 2016, when the poll results diverged from the election results, is a similar concept called preference falsification. (https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674707580) People were lying in public, at work, and to pollster because they feared being punished for expressing their real beliefs. This has all come from the left, with their rising intolerance of alternate viewpoints, and via their hold on education, academia, mainstream and social media, and the social sciences.

Trump's followers are probably better described as status socialists. (http://www.juliansanchez.com/2010/11/04/patriotism-as-status-socialism-or-america-fk-yeah/) When you're in a bad place and have little to be proud of, it's easy to link your self-esteem to a symbol, typically a county. Trump's Make America Great Again appeals to that kind of thinking. But think about that that implies -- Trump's populism isn't appealing to cronyist elitists, it's appealing the disenfranchised.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on August 24, 2020, 09:06:29 PM
It's always hysterical to read articles about how Trump and his supporters have no beliefs, values, etc!! It's not like Trump hasn't given a dozen speeches on his America First ideology, but hey, its the MSM so why should facts matter?

Swamp RINOs have been crying about Trump because Jeb Bush was the Anointed One...Anointed to LOSE to Hillary because like Mittens Romney in 2012, the RINOs don't want to beat the Democrats, but just kick back, enjoy tasty lobbyist dollars and fundraise by continuing their litany of promises to the base. RINOs want "dignified failure" and a demoralized party satisfied by the most minor of "victories".

Trump turned the tables and won when he wasn't supposed to. Hopefully, he'll do it again.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 24, 2020, 09:53:42 PM
:rolleyes:

Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on August 24, 2020, 10:17:40 PM
So I watched some of the DNC convention; it was just depressing. RNC so far has been pretty positive for the most part. Just an observation...
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on August 25, 2020, 08:08:01 AM
LOL. Richard 'He's TOTALLY a NAZI!' Spencer endorses the Dems. Of course.

Watching the 2016 campaign was fascinating in that the RNC spent inordinate amounts of resources to prop up Jeb! and later Marco Rubio, all for naught. You'd think they'd have gotten their shit together -- unless, of course, the point was to -lose- to Hillary.
Title: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RandyB on August 25, 2020, 08:39:38 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1146357
LOL. Richard 'He's TOTALLY a NAZI!' Spencer endorses the Dems. Of course.

Watching the 2016 campaign was fascinating in that the RNC spent inordinate amounts of resources to prop up Jeb! and later Marco Rubio, all for naught. You'd think they'd have gotten their shit together -- unless, of course, the point was to -lose- to Hillary.

It was.

Which is why so many prominent Rs declared themselves "never-Trump". He had the audacity to upset the plan and substitute his own.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on September 02, 2020, 05:30:39 PM
One part of the Election that pundits follow pretty closely along with polls is the 'money race'.  After outraising Trump in June, Trump pulled in more money than Biden in July - $165 Million to (if memory serves, [edit to reflect correct total]$140 million). 


Trump has not yet released his August numbers, but Biden has raised $364Million+.  This shatters the prior record for fundraising from ANY candidate - Obama's $193 Million haul in September 2008. 


Trump has not yet released his August fundraising total.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 03, 2020, 08:26:17 AM
One part of the Election that pundits follow pretty closely along with polls is the 'money race'.  After outraising Trump in June, Trump pulled in more money than Biden in July - $165 Million to (if memory serves, [edit to reflect correct total]$140 million). 


Trump has not yet released his August numbers, but Biden has raised $364Million+.  This shatters the prior record for fundraising from ANY candidate - Obama's $193 Million haul in September 2008. 


Trump has not yet released his August fundraising total.
Wonder how much of Biden's haul is going to bail out BLM/Antifa terrorists.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on September 03, 2020, 09:31:04 AM
Wonder how much of Biden's haul is going to bail out BLM/Antifa terrorists.


None.  But I suppose you could argue that some outside groups will feel that they don't have to pitch in to amplify Biden's message, so they'll be free to divert funds to other priorities, including paying cash bail for places that still have it.  I don't know that there is anything wrong with that.  In this country you're innocent until proven guilty, so being held in prison seems like a violation of our freedom. 


Here's an Article (https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/criminal-justice/reports/2020/03/16/481543/ending-cash-bail/) about Cash Bail Reform. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 03, 2020, 02:49:13 PM

None.  But I suppose you could argue that some outside groups will feel that they don't have to pitch in to amplify Biden's message, so they'll be free to divert funds to other priorities, including paying cash bail for places that still have it.  I don't know that there is anything wrong with that.  In this country you're innocent until proven guilty, so being held in prison seems like a violation of our freedom. 

Here's an Article (https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/criminal-justice/reports/2020/03/16/481543/ending-cash-bail/) about Cash Bail Reform.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-biden-bail/biden-staff-donate-to-group-that-pays-bail-in-riot-torn-minneapolis-idUSKBN2360SZ


Hey, look at that. How totally unexpected. Democrats supporting violent thugs.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on September 03, 2020, 03:16:53 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-biden-bail/biden-staff-donate-to-group-that-pays-bail-in-riot-torn-minneapolis-idUSKBN2360SZ (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-biden-bail/biden-staff-donate-to-group-that-pays-bail-in-riot-torn-minneapolis-idUSKBN2360SZ)


Hey, look at that. How totally unexpected. Democrats supporting violent thugs.
The nerve of you pointing this out! I mean, some of those people were merely getting bread for their families.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 04, 2020, 06:58:08 AM
Wonder how much of Biden's haul is going to bail out BLM/Antifa terrorists.


If you follow the money trail, most of the money raised by BLM goes to support democrat politicians being elected anyways.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 04, 2020, 07:52:39 AM
The nerve of you pointing this out! I mean, some of those people were merely getting bread for their families.
And it's not like anyone got hurt, I mean, those businesses have insurance... /sarc.
Minneapolis is gonna look like Detroit in a year, barring some serious intervention.


If you follow the money trail, most of the money raised by BLM goes to support democrat politicians being elected anyways.
Yeah, I know about ActBlue. Can't help but wonder if some of it's being funneled back to keep their magic riot machine rolling.


Speaking of Antifa terrorism, Michael Reinoehl, accused of murdering Aaron Danielson, was caught in Washington and decided to shoot it out with U.S. Marshals.


(cue up 'I Fought The Law And The Law Won')


So yeah, Reinoehl's now room temperature. Y'know, between the U.S. marshals recovering 50+ lost and trafficked children, and this, I'm starting to like those guys :)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Steven Mitchell on September 04, 2020, 08:39:15 AM
Speaking of Antifa terrorism, Michael Reinoehl, accused of murdering Aaron Danielson, was caught in Washington and decided to shoot it out with U.S. Marshals.


(cue up 'I Fought The Law And The Law Won')


So yeah, Reinoehl's now room temperature. Y'know, between the U.S. marshals recovering 50+ lost and trafficked children, and this, I'm starting to like those guys :)
It's about to get even better.  U.S. Marshals office can deputize state and local law enforcement to act under their authority.  Which means that when they make an arrest, it's under federal law. So much for the marxist trick of making sure to commit their crimes with a Soros-paid DA.
Rook to h8.  Your move, scum. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on September 04, 2020, 10:02:05 AM
Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-endorsements-law-enforcement) - More Than 175 current, former law enforcement officials endorse Joe Biden, slam Trump as 'lawless' president
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 04, 2020, 10:22:00 AM
Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-endorsements-law-enforcement) - More Than 175 current, former law enforcement officials endorse Joe Biden, slam Trump as 'lawless' president


*digs in*


So you've got Noble Wray, who was hired by the Obama DOJ to head up a 'police accountability project'. Yeah, no bias there.


Janet Napolitano is a Democrat political wonk. Pfft.


Tom Manger's been running his mouth for a while, presumably trying to construct a political platform for bigger things. He's whined about Trump detaining illegal immigrants and stripping federal funds from cities blatantly flouting immigration law enforcement.


Yeah, somehow I don't feel any urgency here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on September 04, 2020, 10:58:36 AM
Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-endorsements-law-enforcement) - More Than 175 current, former law enforcement officials endorse Joe Biden, slam Trump as 'lawless' president


*digs in*


So you've got Noble Wray, who was hired by the Obama DOJ to head up a 'police accountability project'. Yeah, no bias there.


Janet Napolitano is a Democrat political wonk. Pfft.


Tom Manger's been running his mouth for a while, presumably trying to construct a political platform for bigger things. He's whined about Trump detaining illegal immigrants and stripping federal funds from cities blatantly flouting immigration law enforcement.


Yeah, somehow I don't feel any urgency here.


Comparing this to the thousands of men in blue that are die hard conservatives that 175 is laughable.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 04, 2020, 01:15:22 PM
Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-endorsements-law-enforcement) - More Than 175 current, former law enforcement officials endorse Joe Biden, slam Trump as 'lawless' president


*digs in*


So you've got Noble Wray, who was hired by the Obama DOJ to head up a 'police accountability project'. Yeah, no bias there.


Janet Napolitano is a Democrat political wonk. Pfft.


Tom Manger's been running his mouth for a while, presumably trying to construct a political platform for bigger things. He's whined about Trump detaining illegal immigrants and stripping federal funds from cities blatantly flouting immigration law enforcement.


Yeah, somehow I don't feel any urgency here.


When Carmen Best publicly supports Joe Biden as the "Great White Hope" for the Presidency of the US, I'll pay attention. So far that list is a bunch of democrat political hacks.


deadDMwalking, You Must Build Additional Pylons!! I mean, You Must Try Harder!!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 04, 2020, 02:17:33 PM
If you follow the money trail, most of the money raised by BLM goes to support democrat politicians being elected anyways.
Do you have a citation for that? The argument I've seen is that if you click on donate on BLM's website, it goes to ActBlue, and that means it's being funneled to Democratic politicians. But ActBlue is really just a service they use to process the money, it's not the recipient. Many involved with BLM will support Democratic politicians, and there will be indirect effects, but it doesn't seem like there's a direct flow of money.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on September 04, 2020, 03:01:31 PM
Were any of the Yankees here around and old enough for the 1972 election?  I'm just wondering how living that compares to living the current DemoKKKrat freak out.  I can't imagine the media was that much different back then.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on September 04, 2020, 03:08:38 PM
Do you have a citation for that? The argument I've seen is that if you click on donate on BLM's website, it goes to ActBlue, and that means it's being funneled to Democratic politicians. But ActBlue is really just a service they use to process the money, it's not the recipient. Many involved with BLM will support Democratic politicians, and there will be indirect effects, but it doesn't seem like there's a direct flow of money.


Dammit Pat. You're shooting holes in the SDNY's case against Bannon/Kolfage with those kinds of questions...  ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 04, 2020, 03:16:24 PM
If you follow the money trail, most of the money raised by BLM goes to support democrat politicians being elected anyways.
Do you have a citation for that? The argument I've seen is that if you click on donate on BLM's website, it goes to ActBlue, and that means it's being funneled to Democratic politicians. But ActBlue is really just a service they use to process the money, it's not the recipient. Many involved with BLM will support Democratic politicians, and there will be indirect effects, but it doesn't seem like there's a direct flow of money.


https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/expenditures.php?cycle=2020&cmte=c00401224


https://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/expenditures.php?cmte=C00401224&cycle=2020


https://secure.actblue.com/


There you go.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 04, 2020, 03:38:46 PM
If you follow the money trail, most of the money raised by BLM goes to support democrat politicians being elected anyways.
Do you have a citation for that? The argument I've seen is that if you click on donate on BLM's website, it goes to ActBlue, and that means it's being funneled to Democratic politicians. But ActBlue is really just a service they use to process the money, it's not the recipient. Many involved with BLM will support Democratic politicians, and there will be indirect effects, but it doesn't seem like there's a direct flow of money.


https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/expenditures.php?cycle=2020&cmte=c00401224


https://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/expenditures.php?cmte=C00401224&cycle=2020


https://secure.actblue.com/


There you go.
That's my point. That's not what any of that says. ActBlue is basically an online payment processor, which allows people to donate to different organizations (mostly blue politicians, but also BLM). It's not taking money from BLM, and handing it out to Biden and Bernie. It's the service that Biden, Bernie, and BLM use to take payments from people who are donating to those specific organizations. Think of it like American Express or PayPal.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 04, 2020, 04:10:37 PM
Dammit Pat. You're shooting holes in the SDNY's case against Bannon/Kolfage with those kinds of questions...  ;D
I thought Bannon was some kind of campaign architect, but after googling a bit it sounds like he was arrested for something related to fund raising. But my knowledge on the subject is too little to know what you mean.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on September 04, 2020, 06:02:56 PM
Dammit Pat. You're shooting holes in the SDNY's case against Bannon/Kolfage with those kinds of questions...  ;D
I thought Bannon was some kind of campaign architect, but after googling a bit it sounds like he was arrested for something related to fund raising. But my knowledge on the subject is too little to know what you mean.


Bannon was involved in a GoFundMe scam where people were donating their own money to build the wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for, but mostly he just kept the money.    He could consider his 'management' a billable expense but it certainly wasn't disclosed to donors and is scummy even if it does not turn out to be explicitly illegal.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 04, 2020, 10:48:40 PM
Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-endorsements-law-enforcement) - More Than 175 current, former law enforcement officials endorse Joe Biden, slam Trump as 'lawless' president


https://twitter.com/GLFOP/status/1301887833012133894


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhE74y0WoAALiNx?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 05, 2020, 12:04:53 AM

That's my point. That's not what any of that says. ActBlue is basically an online payment processor, which allows people to donate to different organizations (mostly blue politicians, but also BLM). It's not taking money from BLM, and handing it out to Biden and Bernie. It's the service that Biden, Bernie, and BLM use to take payments from people who are donating to those specific organizations. Think of it like American Express or PayPal.


Then why does it have a large number of democrat candidates as recipients of ActBlue money and no other political party candidates of note?


Why does BLM use ActBlue to process the donation and not PayPal or American Express?

ActBlue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActBlue#:~:text=ActBlue%20is%20a%20nonprofit%20technology,empower%20small%2Ddollar%20donors%22.) is listed as a left-leaning PAC to help Democrat candidates, so why is BLM using them as a processor and not a neutral one?




Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 05, 2020, 03:23:12 AM
Then why does it have a large number of democrat candidates as recipients of ActBlue money and no other political party candidates of note?


Why does BLM use ActBlue to process the donation and not PayPal or American Express?

ActBlue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActBlue#:~:text=ActBlue%20is%20a%20nonprofit%20technology,empower%20small%2Ddollar%20donors%22.) is listed as a left-leaning PAC to help Democrat candidates, so why is BLM using them as a processor and not a neutral one?
Because they're explicitly a leftist organization. BLM presumably uses them because they're an effective fund raising tool, as well as being fellow travelers.

Found a better reference than Wikipedia:
https://www.influencewatch.org/political-party/actblue-pac/
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/actblue-civics/
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/actblue-charities/
https://www.influencewatch.org/for-profit/actblue-llc/

ActBlue started out as a website in 2004, created specifically to help Democratic candidates collect funds from a lot of smaller donors. They provide a number services, like allowing donors to save their credit card and use it to donate to multiple candidates, automating the filling out of fund raising forms, a variety of tools for optimizing fund raising campaigns, as well as relatively low transaction fees. The Republicans don't have an equivalent organization, which hobbles their ability to raise money from lots of small donors.

ActBlue is broken into a three separate branches, each supporting a different type of legal entity. One of the three is a PAC, the other two are 501(c)3 and 501(c)4 charitable/social welfare organizations, and each supports their own kind. All three provide the same basic fund raising platform services, and the funds they collect (minus transaction fees) are passed through to the entities chosen by the donors, rather than being distributed at ActBlue's discretion. All the groups they support are progressive, and the ones I recognize include the charities GLAAD, Mother Jones, and the Southern Poverty Law Center; the social welfare groups ACLU, NOW, and Planned Parenthood; and a bunch of PACs (which I don't know by name).

There's also a for-profit branch (an LLC), but it's unclear what its role is. Though it may be the original -- the three branches above were founded between 2009 and 2015, but the website dates to 2004.

This link has some more detail about the services ActBlue provides and where the money goes:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/01/23/actblue_fundraising_platform_strikes_gold_--_for_liberals_136068.html
Quote from: Real Clear Politics
"ActBlue works with candidates at the local, state, and national levels -- from school board races to presidential campaigns -- to squeeze every dollar out of their email fundraising pleas or the ubiquitous 'Donate' button on their websites," Kroll wrote.  "Engineers streamline the process of giving to a campaign or cause.  They toy with typefaces, reduce load times, and adapt the product to all devices and operating systems.  Like an Olympic sprinter in training, ActBlue obsesses over shaving off every millisecond."
Quote from: Real Clear Politics
[ActBlue] charges nothing for its services.  (It takes 4 percent of every donation to cover credit card processing fees.)  Operating costs are paid with tips left by donors and the occasional fundraising campaign.
Quote from: Real Clear Politics
The average contribution size [in 2017, including all 3 branches] was a very-"grassrootsy" $31.95.  More than half of all donors gave for the first time in 2017, and just over 40 percent of all contributions were made from a mobile device.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 05, 2020, 05:56:21 PM
Then why does it have a large number of democrat candidates as recipients of ActBlue money and no other political party candidates of note?


Why does BLM use ActBlue to process the donation and not PayPal or American Express?

ActBlue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActBlue#:~:text=ActBlue%20is%20a%20nonprofit%20technology,empower%20small%2Ddollar%20donors%22.) is listed as a left-leaning PAC to help Democrat candidates, so why is BLM using them as a processor and not a neutral one?
Because they're explicitly a leftist organization. BLM presumably uses them because they're an effective fund raising tool, as well as being fellow travelers.

Found a better reference than Wikipedia:
https://www.influencewatch.org/political-party/actblue-pac/ (https://www.influencewatch.org/political-party/actblue-pac/)
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/actblue-civics/ (https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/actblue-civics/)
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/actblue-charities/ (https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/actblue-charities/)
https://www.influencewatch.org/for-profit/actblue-llc/ (https://www.influencewatch.org/for-profit/actblue-llc/)

ActBlue started out as a website in 2004, created specifically to help Democratic candidates collect funds from a lot of smaller donors. They provide a number services, like allowing donors to save their credit card and use it to donate to multiple candidates, automating the filling out of fund raising forms, a variety of tools for optimizing fund raising campaigns, as well as relatively low transaction fees. The Republicans don't have an equivalent organization, which hobbles their ability to raise money from lots of small donors.

ActBlue is broken into a three separate branches, each supporting a different type of legal entity. One of the three is a PAC, the other two are 501(c)3 and 501(c)4 charitable/social welfare organizations, and each supports their own kind. All three provide the same basic fund raising platform services, and the funds they collect (minus transaction fees) are passed through to the entities chosen by the donors, rather than being distributed at ActBlue's discretion. All the groups they support are progressive, and the ones I recognize include the charities GLAAD, Mother Jones, and the Southern Poverty Law Center; the social welfare groups ACLU, NOW, and Planned Parenthood; and a bunch of PACs (which I don't know by name).

There's also a for-profit branch (an LLC), but it's unclear what its role is. Though it may be the original -- the three branches above were founded between 2009 and 2015, but the website dates to 2004.

This link has some more detail about the services ActBlue provides and where the money goes:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/01/23/actblue_fundraising_platform_strikes_gold_--_for_liberals_136068.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/01/23/actblue_fundraising_platform_strikes_gold_--_for_liberals_136068.html)
Quote from: Real Clear Politics
"ActBlue works with candidates at the local, state, and national levels -- from school board races to presidential campaigns -- to squeeze every dollar out of their email fundraising pleas or the ubiquitous 'Donate' button on their websites," Kroll wrote.  "Engineers streamline the process of giving to a campaign or cause.  They toy with typefaces, reduce load times, and adapt the product to all devices and operating systems.  Like an Olympic sprinter in training, ActBlue obsesses over shaving off every millisecond."
Quote from: Real Clear Politics
[ActBlue] charges nothing for its services.  (It takes 4 percent of every donation to cover credit card processing fees.)  Operating costs are paid with tips left by donors and the occasional fundraising campaign.
Quote from: Real Clear Politics
The average contribution size [in 2017, including all 3 branches] was a very-"grassrootsy" $31.95.  More than half of all donors gave for the first time in 2017, and just over 40 percent of all contributions were made from a mobile device.


So, BLM which uses ActBlue, which is a self-proclaimed leftist payment processor, does not funnel money in support of liberal democrats running for office. So where does the money that BLM raises go? I'm asking because from what I can see, including what you have shown me, it still looks like a lot of it is going to support liberal democrat candidates.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 05, 2020, 06:53:23 PM
So, BLM which uses ActBlue, which is a self-proclaimed leftist payment processor, does not funnel money in support of liberal democrats running for office. So where does the money that BLM raises go? I'm asking because from what I can see, including what you have shown me, it still looks like a lot of it is going to support liberal democrat candidates.
I don't know where the money BLM raises is going. Looking around, it's an open question, because they're not very transparent. They've denied giving money directly to the DNC, and claim it's going to "civic engagement, expansion of chapters, Arts & Culture, organizing and digital advocacy resources and tools" (from an AskReddit thread), but that's pretty vague. For all we know, some of it may go to activism and candidates. At the very least, advocacy and engagement is likely to favor Democrats and Democratic causes, for a spillover effect. But that would be BLM acting directly, and unrelated to ActBlue.

I was mistaken about one thing: There is a Republican equivalent to ActBlue, called WinRed. Though it's new, formed in response to the record $700 million ActBlue raised in the 2018 midterms. WinRed is functionally about a year old, and there's been some pushback because apparently the fees and higher and at least some GOP candidates want to use other fund raising platforms (like Anedot).
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/07/16/backlash_ensues_as_rncs_winred_fundraising_hammer_falls.html

Do some more digging, it looks like the umbrella Black Lives Matter organization, called the Black Lives Matter Global Network (the "Global" is a recent addition), is a corporation, not a charity. They're the ones with the big ActBlue DONATE button on their website, but since ActBlue Charities only works with 501(c)3 organizations, that money technically goes to the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, which is "fiscally sponsored" by a 501(c)3 non-profit.

Their original sponsor (2016) was Thousand Currents, but after TC decided to stop sponsoring other organizations in order to focus more on their core mission, that role was taken over by Tides (in July 2020). Fiscal sponsorship is intended for organizations that plan to seek 501(c)3 status, but don't yet qualify (like not having a board, or not having filed in a state, or whatever). Looks like the sponsor creates a fund, which it uses to make grants to the sponsored group; or the sponsored group becomes legally part of the sponsor (probably the first).

The various chapters in different cities are independent.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/markets/the-story-behind-thousand-currents-the-charity-that-doles-out-the-millions-of-dollars-black-lives-matter-generates-in-donations/ar-BB15Ytxo
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/donations-to-black-lives-matter-group-dont-go-to-dnc/
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-1108/141260/20200409134118279_19-1108BriefOfRespondent.pdf
https://www.peoples-law.org/fiscal-sponsorship-alternative-filing-501c3-tax-exempt-status
https://www.tides.org/our-community/partnerships/tides-welcomes-black-lives-matter/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 05, 2020, 11:24:12 PM

Do some more digging, it looks like the umbrella Black Lives Matter organization, called the Black Lives Matter Global Network (the "Global" is a recent addition), is a corporation, not a charity.


Way ahead of you. From over three months ago.


Quote from: jeff37923, DriveThruRPG Supporting BLM[font=verdana
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2020, 08:28:26 AM »][/font]

I'm pretty concerned where and how my money is being spent when I donate it. It isn't just Black Lives Matter, it is Black Lives Matter Foundation Incorporated. They are a business, but they are not a non-profit 501(3)c. They are also only six years old. So how is money that is donated to them spent? What percentage is used for overhead? How much gets to the people they are trying to help?

You and estar can use your IP and spend your money however you like. My take on this is that if you really want to help out blacks in America,  then your donations of money might be better spent on the NAACP or the UNCF although neither is topical in the media right now.[/quote]

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 08, 2020, 01:52:03 PM
Zuckerberg apparently thinks the media "should work to convince the American public there is nothing illegitimate, strange, or suspect about the results [of the] upcoming presidential election".
https://nationalfile.com/zuckerberg-election-may-take-weeks-and-cause-civil-unrest-until-media-creates-consensus-on-next-president/

It's not the job of the media to decide what happens before it happens and to suppress any opposing views. That's the job of the Ministry of Truth.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Steven Mitchell on September 08, 2020, 02:48:07 PM
Zuckerberg apparently thinks the media "should work to convince the American public there is nothing illegitimate, strange, or suspect about the results [of the] upcoming presidential election".
https://nationalfile.com/zuckerberg-election-may-take-weeks-and-cause-civil-unrest-until-media-creates-consensus-on-next-president/ (https://nationalfile.com/zuckerberg-election-may-take-weeks-and-cause-civil-unrest-until-media-creates-consensus-on-next-president/)

It's not the job of the media to decide what happens before it happens and to suppress any opposing views. That's the job of the Ministry of Truth.
Nice one.  Glad I wasn't drinking, or you'd owe me a new keyboard. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 08, 2020, 07:49:56 PM
Nice one.  Glad I wasn't drinking, or you'd owe me a new keyboard. :)
I used to think Aldous Huxley had predicted the future better, but it's becoming easier and easier to quote Orwell.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 09, 2020, 08:13:23 AM
Nice one.  Glad I wasn't drinking, or you'd owe me a new keyboard. :)
I used to think Aldous Huxley had predicted the future better, but it's becoming easier and easier to quote Orwell.
At this rate, it's the two of them keeping score while sitting on a park bench in the afterlife while sharing a bottle of good booze.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Garry G on September 09, 2020, 10:37:21 AM
“Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.”
[/size][/color]
[/size]I'm not sure Orwell would be a valued member of this community. [/color]
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 09, 2020, 01:18:21 PM
I'm not sure Orwell would be a valued member of this community.
Based on my experience, no one is welcome here. So he'd be just as unwelcome as the other animals.

Orwell lived in tumultuous times, and his views changed as the world did. He was a rationalist and an intellectual who despised religion, though he attended Anglican services throughout his life. He saw the rise of the Soviet Union, of fascism in Italy and Germany, and first hand in Spain, where he became a socialist while in a hospital bed, after supporting the anarchists against Franco in the Civil War. He created an anarchist theory that all government was evil, but believed that government had to exist to protect people from injustice. At his core, he seemed to value individual freedom and self-determination, and opposed totalitarianism with ever fiber of his being, which is what most people, when they aren't cherry picking to find favor or disfavor for specific personal beliefs, will find in 1984 and Animal Farm.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on September 09, 2020, 01:35:30 PM
On July 1st, Trump and the RNC released their June fundraising totals ($131 Million).  His June fundraising was eclipsed by Biden.  On August 5th, Trump and the RNC released their fundraising totals ($165 million) after Biden had announced his.  The June fundraising was a surprise; incumbents usually have the fundraising advantage.  Biden's fund raising in August was $365 million and here it is, September 9th, and Trump and the RNC have yet to announce their fundraising totals.  If it had been anywhere north of $190 million, they certainly would have been able to spin this as ALSO breaking the previous fundraising record held by Barrack Obama. 

Excluding mega-donors, more than $200 million to the Biden campaign came from small dollar donations (ie, just focusing on 'real Americans' would have been enough by itself to have broken the previous record).  While the August figures for the RNC have not yet been released, the Trump campaign is in a cash crunch (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/07/us/politics/trump-election-campaign-fundraising.html).  The Trump campaign defends the $800 Million they've already spent as building infrastructure to compete with ActBlue.  In the last two weeks of August, the Biden campaign spent $35 million on advertising compared to Trump's $5 million. 

An article detailing the current ad spends (https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/06/politics/battlegrounds-campaign-ad-spending/index.html) shows Biden with $182 million being spent in the Battleground States to $158 million; of the 10 battleground states identified, Trump won all but one; as a result he is 'playing defense'. 

Trump began fundraising for re-election immediately after assuming office; he has raised $1.2 billion through July.  With July's fundraising total, Biden has now raised over $1 billion as well.




Edit - Trump just announced his August fundraising. $210 Million (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/09/biden-outraised-trump-150-million-410832)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 09, 2020, 02:32:47 PM
I'd be curious to see a breakdown of how much Trump got from small donors. ActBlue is a serious advantage for the Democrats.

I'm finding quotes like this (Biden): "Last month we raised $364.5 million -- 95% of the donations from grassroots supporters like you and the majority online." Which doesn't seem to match the $200 million from small donors you found, but he could be playing games with the word "grassroots".
https://news.yahoo.com/biden-campaign-raises-a-record-3645-million-in-august-164352924.html
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 09, 2020, 03:53:30 PM
“Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.”

I'm not sure Orwell would be a valued member of this community.


Hell, man. Someone who could actually make good arguments for democratic socialism without flipping their shit if someone disagrees would be fine. And anyone against totalitarianism is OK with me.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 09, 2020, 03:54:58 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize-by-norwegian-official (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize-by-norwegian-official)


If Obama could get one for no appreciable reason I can see, why not Trump? We can actually point out something specific Trump did to promote peace in the middle east.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on September 09, 2020, 04:46:40 PM
“Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.”

I'm not sure Orwell would be a valued member of this community.


Hell, man. Someone who could actually make good arguments for democratic socialism without flipping their shit if someone disagrees would be fine. And anyone against totalitarianism is OK with me.
QFT
There's a reason Orwell is respected by those of us opposed to socialism.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on September 09, 2020, 05:01:02 PM
On July 1st, Trump and the RNC released their June fundraising totals ($131 Million).  His June fundraising was eclipsed by Biden.  On August 5th, Trump and the RNC released their fundraising totals ($165 million) after Biden had announced his.  The June fundraising was a surprise; incumbents usually have the fundraising advantage.  Biden's fund raising in August was $365 million and here it is, September 9th, and Trump and the RNC have yet to announce their fundraising totals.  If it had been anywhere north of $190 million, they certainly would have been able to spin this as ALSO breaking the previous fundraising record held by Barrack Obama. 

Excluding mega-donors, more than $200 million to the Biden campaign came from small dollar donations (ie, just focusing on 'real Americans' would have been enough by itself to have broken the previous record).  While the August figures for the RNC have not yet been released, the Trump campaign is in a cash crunch (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/07/us/politics/trump-election-campaign-fundraising.html).  The Trump campaign defends the $800 Million they've already spent as building infrastructure to compete with ActBlue.  In the last two weeks of August, the Biden campaign spent $35 million on advertising compared to Trump's $5 million. 

An article detailing the current ad spends (https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/06/politics/battlegrounds-campaign-ad-spending/index.html) shows Biden with $182 million being spent in the Battleground States to $158 million; of the 10 battleground states identified, Trump won all but one; as a result he is 'playing defense'. 

Trump began fundraising for re-election immediately after assuming office; he has raised $1.2 billion through July.  With July's fundraising total, Biden has now raised over $1 billion as well.




Edit - Trump just announced his August fundraising. $210 Million (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/09/biden-outraised-trump-150-million-410832)
Jesus, you need to try a little harder...
First it was polls, polls, polls even though I pointed out that public polls are meant to sway opinion, not report on it.  A better indicator of the internal polling was what the campaigns did.
Now its money, money, money...
A) Hardly surprising since all the Neocon warmongers are supporting Biden.
B) I'm just gonna leave this here... https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidential-campaign-fundraising/ (https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidential-campaign-fundraising/)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on September 09, 2020, 08:55:17 PM
“Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.”

I'm not sure Orwell would be a valued member of this community.
Is this one of those, "Nazis weren't socialists!," comments?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Steven Mitchell on September 09, 2020, 09:55:14 PM
Every now and then things simplify to two sides:  Those that want to control what everyone else does and those that don't like that.  When you are in the second group and in one of those times, you'll take any reliable person in the fox hole, even if in a more peaceful time you might be opponents.  Get the control freaks out of the picture, then the rest of us can go back to arguing about the borders on less weighty issues.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 09, 2020, 11:01:13 PM
Is this one of those, "Nazis weren't socialists!," comments?
Absolutely not, Orwell criticized every major strain of socialism and every major socialist figure of his time. He was a universal gadfly or critic of excesses or affronts to common decency.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 10, 2020, 08:08:14 AM
I suspect Orwell was learning the sad lesson -- that socialism and communism (BIRM) simply set up a new form of feudal style governance, because of human nature.


Thomas Sowell's Vision of the Anointed is very useful if you want to pursue this line of thought.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 10, 2020, 09:26:52 AM
I don't think Orwell learned that lesson, because he remained sympathetic to socialism until the end. But while he was widely read in socialist thought -- his personal library was huge -- he seemed to idealize the community-minded workers ruled by common decency, over the theoretical edifices created by intellectuals. This is me guessing nothing more, but I'd say he liked the dream of socialism but never really reconciled the utopian ideals he admired with the inevitable consequences. Since he wasn't the type to cleave to one side, and defend it at all costs, while attacking all others, as many do today, he ended up savaging the failures of his fellow travelers far more than he criticized those on the opposite end of the spectrum, simply because he was more familiar with their shortcomings.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Anthony Pacheco on September 12, 2020, 05:06:43 PM
I suspect Orwell was learning the sad lesson -- that socialism and communism (BIRM) simply set up a new form of feudal style governance, because of human nature.


Thomas Sowell's Vision of the Anointed is very useful if you want to pursue this line of thought.

I concur with this Sowell recommendation.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on September 15, 2020, 06:58:46 PM
  I have to LOL at mentioning democratic "fund raising" without mentioning a GIANT ELEPHANT in the room that is likely the source of said fund raising.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on September 16, 2020, 01:50:34 AM
Oggsmash, you're talking crazy!

It's not like Burn Loot Murder was funneling money directly to ActBlue on their website so every BLM supporting imbecile's donations to "fight waaaaycism" actually went to Dementia Joe Joe!


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 16, 2020, 10:03:32 AM
Oggsmash, you're talking crazy!

It's not like Burn Loot Murder was funneling money directly to ActBlue on their website so every BLM supporting imbecile's donations to "fight waaaaycism" actually went to Dementia Joe Joe!
And conversely, funds from the Biden/Harris campaign were being funneled into bail funds to bail out arrested BLM/Antifa rioters.



Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: tenbones on September 16, 2020, 10:32:34 AM
The weather is pretty fine in Texas, boys.


Sure we got some mild infection in Austin. But that's Austin, they'll figure it out. When the Rifts open, count on Lone Star.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 16, 2020, 01:55:29 PM
It's not like Burn Loot Murder was funneling money directly to ActBlue on their website so every BLM supporting imbecile's donations to "fight waaaaycism" actually went to Dementia Joe Joe!
You're correct, they're not doing that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on September 16, 2020, 07:56:46 PM
You're correct, they're not doing that.

Because this link doesn't exist on the BLM homepage?It's the big blue square that says Donate!https://secure.actblue.com/donate/ms_blm_homepage_2019 (https://secure.actblue.com/donate/ms_blm_homepage_2019)
Imagine that! Avowed marxists and domestic terrorists tied at the hip with the DNC's fundraising engine.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 16, 2020, 09:31:57 PM
You're correct, they're not doing that.

Because this link doesn't exist on the BLM homepage?It's the big blue square that says Donate!https://secure.actblue.com/donate/ms_blm_homepage_2019 (https://secure.actblue.com/donate/ms_blm_homepage_2019)
Imagine that! Avowed marxists and domestic terrorists tied at the hip with the DNC's fundraising engine.
We covered this, two or three pages back. Your interpretation is completely wrong.

ActBlue is a fund raising platform, that helps progressive organizations and candidates raise money for those specific organizations and candidates. If you click on the big DONATE on Joe Biden's website, it goes to his campaign, minus a fairly modest transaction fee (about 4%, IIRC). If you click on the big DONATE on the BLM website, it's slightly more complex because BLM is a for-profit company and ActBlue doesn't work with non-profits. So BLM has a foundation that's presumably applying for non-profit status, but in the meantime is being sponsored by Tides, which shares their 503(c)3 status with the BLM foundation. So it's a little more complex because of IRS legal classifications, but it amounts to the same thing: Minus the transaction fees, the money from that big DONATE button on the BLM website goes to BLM (though it's handled by a specific foundation).

ActBlue isn't some secret foundation that takes all the money when you click DONATE on any of those sites, and then distributes it however they want. They're not a Cobalt United Way.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on September 17, 2020, 04:56:41 AM
Pat, the financial shenanigans involving 501(c)3 fundraising was so outrageous even Colbert addressed it back before he lost his brain to TDS.


I'm sure there's no connection whatsoever that Biden had his mega-fundraising happen exactly when BLM became the 24/7 media focus and corporations were dumping millions into BLM (via ActBlue) as protection money, oops, I meant to fight oppression.



Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 17, 2020, 07:42:34 AM
You're confusing completely different things. Colbert mocked Super PACs by creating one and abusing the rules. But a PAC is a 527 organization, not a 501(c)3, which are charities like the Red Cross. Act Blue has separate branches providing support to progressive PACs, 501(c)3s, and 501(c)4s (the latter are primarily social welfare groups), and they have to be legally distinct and meet strict requirements because campaign financing laws and the IRS are more than a little control freaky about things like that.

Biden uses the ActBlue organization for PACs. BLM uses the one for 501(c)3s. So you're arguing that they're funneling money from charities to political advocacy groups, which is an egregious violation of I don't know how many rules in an area with lots of legal and financial scrutiny. That's roughly equivalent to accusing Hillary of eating babies. Which is certainly possible, but you need at least a shred of evidence to even qualify as a conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on September 18, 2020, 12:16:15 AM
and they have to be legally distinct and meet strict requirements because campaign financing laws and the IRS are more than a little control freaky about things like that.
Control freaky like when the IRS targeted conservative non-profits and fundraising groups under Obama, but magically all the campaign finance issues surrounding AOC and Ilhan Omar vanish like pixie dust?

Definitely "control freaky"...but only in one direction.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 18, 2020, 04:19:10 AM
and they have to be legally distinct and meet strict requirements because campaign financing laws and the IRS are more than a little control freaky about things like that.
Control freaky like when the IRS targeted conservative non-profits and fundraising groups under Obama, but magically all the campaign finance issues surrounding AOC and Ilhan Omar vanish like pixie dust?

Definitely "control freaky"...but only in one direction.
You're just moving the goalposts and attempting to tar by association. We're not talking about AOC or Ilhan Omar, maybe a million dollars, abuse of loopholes or vagueness in campaign finance rules exploited by specific campaigns in ways that were clearly unethical but possibly legal, specific details about what happened in both cases, articles in the media that covered all that, and an investigation by authorities. We're talking about ActBlue, hundreds of millions of dollars, an absurd claim with no credible mechanism and no specific details, no articles in the media just vague conspiracy theories based on complete misunderstanding of the basic role of ActBlue, and no formal investigations.

There are definitely problems with bias in how things are approved or whether investigations go forward, but that's what happens when you give the fourth branch of government (the bureaucracy) broad discretion to make judgment calls, as in approving non-profits or selectively deciding which laws to enforce.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 18, 2020, 08:23:14 AM
Tar by association? Pat, did you hit your head?


We don't have to tar by association. The Democrats have been happily supporting the rioting lowlifes for some time now. Hell, they're throttling BACK the riots because it's wreaking havoc on the Dems' poll numbers.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on September 18, 2020, 11:05:56 AM
I see Pat is doing the same thing he did in the other thread...claiming there is no obvious link between things because, well, reasons?

BLM funnels money directly to the Democrat party. This is indisputable.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 18, 2020, 11:26:36 AM
I see Pat is doing the same thing he did in the other thread...claiming there is no obvious link between things because, well, reasons?

BLM funnels money directly to the Democrat party. This is indisputable.
When they're not getting it from China.


The Black Futures Lab, an outgrowth of BLM, is receiving a nice paycheck from the Chinese Progressive Association.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on September 18, 2020, 11:53:30 AM
When they're not getting it from China.


The Black Futures Lab, an outgrowth of BLM, is receiving a nice paycheck from the Chinese Progressive Association.
"our commitment to use our political strength to stop corporate influences from creeping into progressive policies"

Literally laughed out loud at this. These people are fucking insane.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 18, 2020, 12:16:22 PM
Tar by association? Pat, did you hit your head?


We don't have to tar by association. The Democrats have been happily supporting the rioting lowlifes for some time now. Hell, they're throttling BACK the riots because it's wreaking havoc on the Dems' poll numbers.
Did you hit your head? Because we're not talking about that. Spinachcat claimed that the money given to BLM when someone clicks on the big DONATE button on their website really goes to Joe Biden's campaign. I pointed out there's zero evidence for it. There's not even a plausible mechanism by which it can happen.

Spinachcat replied by bringing up campaign finance irregularities with AOC and Ilhan Omar's campaigns, which has nothing to do with ActBlue or BLM. Completely different organizations, probably completely different people, and none of the methods they used would transfer over because their organizational structures and legal requirements are completely different. So it was just a smokescreen, which provides no evidence that BLM is passing money to Biden via ActBlue, or even a method by which it might have been done. So yes, it's an attempt to tar by association. It's equivalent to saying water is blue, so that means anything blue is wet.

I see Pat is doing the same thing he did in the other thread...claiming there is no obvious link between things because, well, reasons?

BLM funnels money directly to the Democrat party. This is indisputable.
I'm sure some of their money ends up supporting them, via individual contributions or PACs. But that's not what we're talking about. Please don't carry over reflexive tribalism.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 18, 2020, 12:20:25 PM
Tar by association? Pat, did you hit your head?


We don't have to tar by association. The Democrats have been happily supporting the rioting lowlifes for some time now. Hell, they're throttling BACK the riots because it's wreaking havoc on the Dems' poll numbers.
Did you hit your head? Because we're not talking about that. Spinachcat claimed that the money given to BLM when someone clicks on the big DONATE button on their website really goes to Joe Biden's campaign. I pointed out there's zero evidence for it. There's not even a plausible mechanism by which it can happen.

Spinachcat replied by bringing up campaign finance irregularities with AOC and Ilhan Omar's campaigns, which has nothing to do with ActBlue or BLM. Completely different organizations, probably completely different people, and none of the methods they used would transfer over because their organizational structures and legal requirements are completely different. So it was just a smokescreen, which provides no evidence that BLM is passing money to Biden via ActBlue, or even a method by which it might have been done. So yes, it's an attempt to tar by association. It's equivalent to saying water is blue, so that means anything blue is wet.

I see Pat is doing the same thing he did in the other thread...claiming there is no obvious link between things because, well, reasons?

BLM funnels money directly to the Democrat party. This is indisputable.
I'm sure some of their money ends up supporting them, via individual contributions or PACs. But that's not what we're talking about. Please don't carry over reflexive tribalism.


There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Abraxus on September 18, 2020, 02:14:23 PM
So once again if a poster disagrees with another it’s “ Triablism” .


Is what it’s come when having a discussion. Agree with the poster or one is “insert word” ist or a victim of “insert word” ism.
Mi can do too when a discussion is not going my way lol 😂.



Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 18, 2020, 02:29:36 PM
So once again if a poster disagrees with another it’s “ Triablism” .
Nope. When people don't address any of the arguments I've made, and instead make false claims about what I believe, or make short responses that seem to have nothing to do with what I said, in today's climate the reasonable assumption is it's an example of tribalism. Tribalism is about taking sides, and characteristics include looking for superficial signs that someone is an enemy, then ascribing them a mass of characteristics and beliefs that have been assigned to that enemy, and then responding to those characteristics in a rote way, instead of addressing what was actually said. Your post, Brad's, and Jeff's all seem to be display those characteristics. There's nothing in those posts to address except the assumptions you're making, because there's no content. Ghostmaker by contrast appears to be reading things I never said into what I actually said, but seems to be trying to carry on a real discussion.

Note I'd prefer to address an actual argument, counterpoint, or something else that we can at least talk about.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on September 18, 2020, 02:45:08 PM
Nope. When people don't address any of the arguments I've made, and instead make false claims about what I believe, or make short responses that seem to have nothing to do with what I said, in today's climate the reasonable assumption is it's an example of tribalism. Tribalism is about taking sides, and characteristics include looking for superficial signs that someone is an enemy, then ascribing them a mass of characteristics and beliefs that have been assigned to that enemy, and then responding to those characteristics in a rote way, instead of addressing what was actually said. Your post, Brad's, and Jeff's all seem to be display those characteristics. There's nothing in those posts to address except the assumptions you're making, because there's no content. Ghostmaker by contrast appears to be reading things I never said into what I actually said, but seems to be trying to carry on a real discussion.

Note I'd prefer to address an actual argument, counterpoint, or something else that we can at least talk about.
Nahh
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 18, 2020, 02:46:58 PM
So once again if a poster disagrees with another it’s “ Triablism” .
Nope. When people don't address any of the arguments I've made, and instead make false claims about what I believe, or make short responses that seem to have nothing to do with what I said, in today's climate the reasonable assumption is it's an example of tribalism. Tribalism is about taking sides, and characteristics include looking for superficial signs that someone is an enemy, then ascribing them a mass of characteristics and beliefs that have been assigned to that enemy, and then responding to those characteristics in a rote way, instead of addressing what was actually said. Your post, Brad's, and Jeff's all seem to be display those characteristics. There's nothing in those posts to address except the assumptions you're making, because there's no content. Ghostmaker by contrast appears to be reading things I never said into what I actually said, but seems to be trying to carry on a real discussion.

Note I'd prefer to address an actual argument, counterpoint, or something else that we can at least talk about.


So, you are admitting to engaging in tribalism?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Abraxus on September 18, 2020, 08:07:30 PM
I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt Pat except when an discussion does not go your way you toss out everyone is being Tribalistic".


To myself at least you don't really like push-back during a discussion. You want to hear what you want to hear and nothing else. With everyone at fault or in error.


It comes off wanting an echo chamber and not wanting to engage.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Chris24601 on September 18, 2020, 09:23:02 PM
So, Ruth Bader-Ginsberg has died.


And you thought this election was going to be insane before.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 19, 2020, 12:56:40 AM
So, Ruth Bader-Ginsberg has died.


And you thought this election was going to be insane before.


My favorite reaction so far.


https://twitter.com/rezaaslan/status/1307107507131875330


I'm like, bitch, have you looked out a window lately?


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 19, 2020, 01:15:01 PM
I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt Pat except when an discussion does not go your way you toss out everyone is being Tribalistic".


To myself at least you don't really like push-back during a discussion. You want to hear what you want to hear and nothing else. With everyone at fault or in error.


It comes off wanting an echo chamber and not wanting to engage.
I've mentioned tribalism in exactly two discussions, and this time it only came up because Brad butted into the discussion with a dismissive and contentless reference to the earlier thread, so I asked him not to. So this pattern of behavior you're claiming I have is based on one instance, and second explicit request that we not do this again.

You should look in a mirror. The overreaction by you and others is a much stronger pattern.

And I tend to thrive when there's pushback, just look at the discussion I was having with Spinachcat before the rest of you jumped in. I was explaining how things work, and presenting arguments and evidence.

In contrast, none of you have done that. Your responses in both the previous thread and now in this one have been almost utterly devoid of content, amounting to "nah", telling me your (negative and false) impressions of me (like this post of yours), or putting words in my mouth.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 19, 2020, 01:15:40 PM
So, you are admitting to engaging in tribalism?
I don't have a tribe.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 19, 2020, 02:30:42 PM
So, you are admitting to engaging in tribalism?
I don't have a tribe.


So all of these contrarian posts are your attempt at announcing that you'd like to be adopted by a tribe?


Who among our clans shall take in this lonely one? To give it a home and hearth. To grant it an ideology worthy of its daring?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on September 19, 2020, 02:38:35 PM
I've mentioned tribalism in exactly two discussions, and this time it only came up because Brad butted into the discussion with a dismissive and contentless reference to the earlier thread, so I asked him not to. So this pattern of behavior you're claiming I have is based on one instance, and second explicit request that we not do this again.
You are just completely unable to admit when you're wrong, even when presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Clutch those pearls!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 19, 2020, 02:55:36 PM
So all of these contrarian posts are your attempt at announcing that you'd like to be adopted by a tribe?
Nope. It seems to be desperately important to you, though.

You are just completely unable to admit when you're wrong, even when presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Clutch those pearls!
Zero is overwhelming? Because you certainly haven't provided a single shred of evidence,.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 19, 2020, 03:34:39 PM
So all of these contrarian posts are your attempt at announcing that you'd like to be adopted by a tribe?
Nope. It seems to be desperately important to you, though.


It is, because I am laughing at your antics.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on September 19, 2020, 04:20:19 PM
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
In my experience, that doesn't apply to Pat.

He (or she, it's Pat!) is always fun to joust with because while Pat staunchly (or some say stubbornly) holds to his positions (as I do too), Pat always seems TO ME to be willing to look at other perspectives and evidence. 



Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 20, 2020, 05:45:58 PM

My favorite reaction so far.


https://twitter.com/rezaaslan/status/1307107507131875330 (https://twitter.com/rezaaslan/status/1307107507131875330)


I'm like, bitch, have you looked out a window lately?
Saw that. Would like to see him sitting in an interrogation room downtown, explaining why he wasn't making terroristic threats. But then, I've gotten tired of these low life blue checkmarks talking big when it's not their asses on the line.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on September 20, 2020, 06:18:12 PM
This RBG situation is entirely the fault of her hubris. Nobody else.
She was severely ill during Obama's 2nd term. She could have stepped down, helped oversee the choice and nomination of her replacement. She would have spent her last days being lauded by law schools and the media as the Queen of the Law. Nope. She CHOOSE to spend her last days nodding off on the job and barely existing until the eventual occurred.

"Notorious RBG" now exists as a stark object lesson. If Trump somehow wins and keeps the Senate, then the old conservative supremes need to ride into their sunset and let younger, equally (or more) conservative judges take their seats.

Plus, the Democrats have already promised to expand the Supreme Court and pack the seats, so let's bring on civil war or submission.

Let's really see what's left in America's nutsack.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: DocJones on September 20, 2020, 07:27:28 PM
BLM funnels money directly to the Democrat party. This is indisputable.
I disagree.  I'm pretty sure the people running BLM are embezzling pretty much all of it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 21, 2020, 07:13:02 AM
I disagree.  I'm pretty sure the people running BLM are embezzling pretty much all of it.
That's a more reasonable claim, though you can have obscene salaries, fat expense accounts, and fund all your pet projects without violating any laws. The real question is what kind of financial stewardship Thousand Currents, or Tides as of a month or two ago, are providing. Those are the two charities that have lent BLM their 501(c)3 status, which means the money from ActBlue went to them, to manage for the BLM Foundation. That's enough layers of indirection to hide some sins, but both Tides and Thousands Currents have been around for 30 or more years, so at the very least they know how to handle the accounting and maintain a semblance of propriety.

I'm not familiar with either, so I looked them both up in Charity Navigator. Thousand Currents seems quite reputable. They're global, and get a high rating for financial accountability and transparency. Tides on the other hand gets a failing score. Which could suggest something about why BLM switched, though Thousand Currents claims that the reason BLM left is because TC decided to sunset their financial sponsorship program. Note while they're both a respectable size for a charity, they're fairly small, compared to the money BLM is bringing in -- TC has an annual revenue of about $6 million, and Tides is somewhat smaller at about $4 million.

Though how much BLM has raised is an open question. One hint is that in June, their Foundation announced a $6.5 million plan to support "grassroots" organizing (for definitions of "grassroots" that allow for funding from above, I assume). They also have plans in media and education, and have been sponsoring artists since 2015.

Okay, this is weird. Looked up BLM in Charity Navigator, and found the BLM Foundation, which has a "moderate" advisory that mentions a cease & desist order from the attorneys general of NY and California, and a Buzzfeed article that says the BLM Foundation has zero ties to the BLM organization that gets all the press:
Quote
The Black Lives Matter Foundation, a Santa Clarita, California–based charitable organization that has one paid employee and lists a UPS store as its address, has a very different goal, according to its founder: “bringing the community and police closer together.”
...
“I don't have anything to do with the Black Lives Matter Global Network. I never met them; never spoke to them. I don't know them; I have no relationship with them,” Robert Ray Barnes, the founder of the Black Lives Matter Foundation, told BuzzFeed News in a lengthy interview. “Our whole thing is having unity with the police department.”
Checked the BLM website, and the ActBlue link -- it says the money goes to the "Black Lives Matter Support Fund" at Tides. So the BLM Foundation" is an entirely different pro-cops group, and the money going to the real BLM is sent to a "Fund". Which sounds like Tides (and probably Thousands Currents before) are more directly handling the money (one of the two options for sponsorship legally turns the sponsored group into a branch of the sponsor), though that's a weak supposition. To further confuse things, the BLM Global Network Foundation is the full name of the popular BLM organization.

https://www.tides.org/
https://www.tides.org/our-community/partnerships/tides-welcomes-black-lives-matter/
https://thousandcurrents.org/
https://thousandcurrents.org/black-lives-matter/
https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/571138099
https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6372
https://blacklivesmatter.com/black-lives-matter-global-network-foundation-announces-6-5-million-fund-to-support-organizing-work/
https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/474143254
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6945175-CaliforniaAGCeaseandDesist-BLMFoundation.html
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/ny-attorney-general-orders-black-lives-matter-foundation-to-stop-soliciting-donations/2502852/
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/black-lives-matter-foundation-unrelated-blm-donations
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 21, 2020, 08:05:45 AM
I disagree.  I'm pretty sure the people running BLM are embezzling pretty much all of it.
That's a more reasonable claim, though you can have obscene salaries, fat expense accounts, and fund all your pet projects without violating any laws. The real question is what kind of financial stewardship Thousand Currents, or Tides as of a month or two ago, are providing. Those are the two charities that have lent BLM their 501(c)3 status, which means the money from ActBlue went to them, to manage for the BLM Foundation. That's enough layers of indirection to hide some sins, but both Tides and Thousands Currents have been around for 30 or more years, so at the very least they know how to handle the accounting and maintain a semblance of propriety.

I'm not familiar with either, so I looked them both up in Charity Navigator. Thousand Currents seems quite reputable. They're global, and get a high rating for financial accountability and transparency. Tides on the other hand gets a failing score. Which could suggest something about why BLM switched, though Thousand Currents claims that the reason BLM left is because TC decided to sunset their financial sponsorship program. Note while they're both a respectable size for a charity, they're fairly small, compared to the money BLM is bringing in -- TC has an annual revenue of about $6 million, and Tides is somewhat smaller at about $4 million.

Though how much BLM has raised is an open question. One hint is that in June, their Foundation announced a $6.5 million plan to support "grassroots" organizing (for definitions of "grassroots" that allow for funding from above, I assume). They also have plans in media and education, and have been sponsoring artists since 2015.

Okay, this is weird. Looked up BLM in Charity Navigator, and found the BLM Foundation, which has a "moderate" advisory that mentions a cease & desist order from the attorneys general of NY and California, and a Buzzfeed article that says the BLM Foundation has zero ties to the BLM organization that gets all the press:
Quote
The Black Lives Matter Foundation, a Santa Clarita, California–based charitable organization that has one paid employee and lists a UPS store as its address, has a very different goal, according to its founder: “bringing the community and police closer together.”
...
“I don't have anything to do with the Black Lives Matter Global Network. I never met them; never spoke to them. I don't know them; I have no relationship with them,” Robert Ray Barnes, the founder of the Black Lives Matter Foundation, told BuzzFeed News in a lengthy interview. “Our whole thing is having unity with the police department.”
Checked the BLM website, and the ActBlue link -- it says the money goes to the "Black Lives Matter Support Fund" at Tides. So the BLM Foundation" is an entirely different pro-cops group, and the money going to the real BLM is sent to a "Fund". Which sounds like Tides (and probably Thousands Currents before) are more directly handling the money (one of the two options for sponsorship legally turns the sponsored group into a branch of the sponsor), though that's a weak supposition. To further confuse things, the BLM Global Network Foundation is the full name of the popular BLM organization.

https://www.tides.org/ (https://www.tides.org/)
https://www.tides.org/our-community/partnerships/tides-welcomes-black-lives-matter/ (https://www.tides.org/our-community/partnerships/tides-welcomes-black-lives-matter/)
https://thousandcurrents.org/ (https://thousandcurrents.org/)
https://thousandcurrents.org/black-lives-matter/ (https://thousandcurrents.org/black-lives-matter/)
https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/571138099 (https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/571138099)
https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6372 (https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6372)
https://blacklivesmatter.com/black-lives-matter-global-network-foundation-announces-6-5-million-fund-to-support-organizing-work/ (https://blacklivesmatter.com/black-lives-matter-global-network-foundation-announces-6-5-million-fund-to-support-organizing-work/)
https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/474143254 (https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/474143254)
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6945175-CaliforniaAGCeaseandDesist-BLMFoundation.html (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6945175-CaliforniaAGCeaseandDesist-BLMFoundation.html)
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/ny-attorney-general-orders-black-lives-matter-foundation-to-stop-soliciting-donations/2502852/ (https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/ny-attorney-general-orders-black-lives-matter-foundation-to-stop-soliciting-donations/2502852/)
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/black-lives-matter-foundation-unrelated-blm-donations (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/black-lives-matter-foundation-unrelated-blm-donations)


Not by any stretch of the imagination would I call BLM or any other group that demands to defund police to be "pro-cop".
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 21, 2020, 08:08:19 AM
Not by any stretch of the imagination would I call BLM or any other group that demands to defund police to be "pro-cop".
That was the distinction I was making -- the BLM Foundation is pro-cop, in contrast to its more famous namesake.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 21, 2020, 08:24:59 AM
Not by any stretch of the imagination would I call BLM or any other group that demands to defund police to be "pro-cop".
That was the distinction I was making -- the BLM Foundation is pro-cop, in contrast to its more famous namesake.


All right. Fuck this. You can have all the personal definitions of things you want, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. It is just doublespeak.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 21, 2020, 12:22:17 PM
All right. Fuck this. You can have all the personal definitions of things you want, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. It is just doublespeak.
No, this is on you. What do you do, scan my posts for things you can maliciously misinterpret, and ignore all the rest of the context? Who would say that BLM (the famous one) is pro-cops? That makes no fucking sense. I was making a distinction between the BLM Global Network Foundation (the group all the rioters love), and the BLM Foundation (which apparently tries to work cooperatively with cops -- read the links). If you have trouble parsing basic sentences, then throw commas before and after "pro-cops group". That should make the meaning clear, even to you.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 21, 2020, 02:11:04 PM
All right. Fuck this. You can have all the personal definitions of things you want, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. It is just doublespeak.
No, this is on you. What do you do, scan my posts for things you can maliciously misinterpret, and ignore all the rest of the context? Who would say that BLM (the famous one) is pro-cops? That makes no fucking sense. I was making a distinction between the BLM Global Network Foundation (the group all the rioters love), and the BLM Foundation (which apparently tries to work cooperatively with cops -- read the links). If you have trouble parsing basic sentences, then throw commas before and after "pro-cops group". That should make the meaning clear, even to you.


No, fuck-o. This is on you to explain yourself in a clear and concise manner if you want your message to be communicated effectively. Right now you are just throwing out a bunch of bullshit to obfuscate the fact that a cornerstone of BLM is to defund police departments which is anything but "pro-cop".
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on September 21, 2020, 04:06:44 PM

Greetings!


Yeah, when myself or anyone else refers to "BLM"--everyone knows what organization is being discussed. The fact that somewhere there exists an organization called "BLM The Sweet Garden Charity" is irrelevant.


Semper Fidelis,


SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 21, 2020, 05:20:48 PM
No, fuck-o. This is on you to explain yourself in a clear and concise manner if you want your message to be communicated effectively. Right now you are just throwing out a bunch of bullshit to obfuscate the fact that a cornerstone of BLM is to defund police departments which is anything but "pro-cop".
I literally said the opposite. If you twist and squint, you can make it say what you're claiming it says, but that defies the nature of the (real) BLM as understood both by their enemies and allies, my position on BLM (they're a Marxist hate group), and the sentence structure itself, which places the BLM and the faux-BLM groups in opposition. Requiring someone to write sentences with such clarity that they can't be misinterpreted by someone willing to ignore every last bit of context is completely unreasonable even in formal writing, much less in posts on an anti-swine messageboard. It's also literally impossible in many cases, at least without ballooning writing with a crazy number of caveats, given that the English language is a human language, not a form of mathematics or a programming language, and thus lacks their precision. That's why context, and not interpreting things as maliciously as possible, is essential to communication.

You cherry-picked something that could be interpreted two ways, and ignored the clear context that pointed to the other interpretation. Rather than criticizing or attacking you, I simply explained in neutral terms what I actually intended. Which should have ended it, because the author presumably knows what they meant. But no, you've been flipping out ever since.

So it's all on you.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on September 21, 2020, 05:22:55 PM
The level of mental gymnastics on display because someone just won't admit they're full of shit is astounding.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 21, 2020, 05:32:31 PM
Yeah, when myself or anyone else refers to "BLM"--everyone knows what organization is being discussed. The fact that somewhere there exists an organization called "BLM The Sweet Garden Charity" is irrelevant.
Evidence suggests otherwise. The cease and desist orders are because they were confusing people. The Buzzfeed article talks about a GoFundMe, and MSN expands on that by saying $4.35 million has been donated in error to the smaller group:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/millions-mistakenly-raised-for-black-lives-matter-group-not-associated-with-movement/ar-BB15wQMj

And this isn't just random people doing a search for BLM and accidentally donating to a guy in his garage. If you look around, there are quite a few published articles that are confusing BLM (burn loot murder) with the pro-cop (or at least cop-appeasing) BLM. Here's one that can't separate the two:
https://www.teaparty.org/top-black-lives-matter-activist-questions-where-the-millions-of-dollars-in-donations-are-going-no-one-knows-442947/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 21, 2020, 05:32:48 PM
The level of mental gymnastics on display because someone just won't admit they're full of shit is astounding.
That's not a nice thing to say about Jeff.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on September 21, 2020, 07:31:23 PM
The level of mental gymnastics on display because someone just won't admit they're full of shit is astounding.

It is, but not the way you think. I’ve been following this side discussion on and off, and the only one I’ve seen make actual arguments, provide evidence or bring up verifiable facts has been Pat. Everyone else has just been engaging on wild speculation or character attacks because Pat is contradicting them with facts and specific details that you could look up, and if Pat is truly wrong about these details you could point them out and call them out on his (or her? It Pat!) BS.

Yet interestingly enough people ARE calling Pat’s BS... without pointing out ANY of the supposed BS. It is quite literally “OMG! You’re correcting and contradicting our wild, baseless and completely unsupported speculation! You’re full of shit!”

And this is not even to say that Pat is necessarily correct (though, I am inclined to believe that they’re at least closer to reality), but that NOBODY (and anyone here is free to bring me a quote proving otherwise) is even attempting to actually refute anything that Pat said with actual data. It’s basically just people whining that Pat is raining on their parade by pointing out contradicting data with actual links to back up what he/she says. And you don’t even realize it! The whole thing is just wild. ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 21, 2020, 08:56:22 PM
The level of mental gymnastics on display because someone just won't admit they're full of shit is astounding.
That's not a nice thing to say about Jeff.


I find it interesting that liberals supporting BLM say that they don't really mean to defund the police and that they are pro-cop, but when the leadership of BLM is interviewed they want to completely abolish the police (with defunding being a euphemism for that).


So yeah, when you use buzzfeed and MSN as sources, I don't consider them to be good examples of accurate reporting.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on September 21, 2020, 09:28:58 PM

Greetings!


BLM is a hateful, racist organization of Marxists seeking to overthrow and destroy the United States of America, and Western Civilization in general. I have seen plenty of their own videos, their own interviews, and their own quotes to know all about what they stand for and what their mission and goals are. Then, of course, there is also the litany of live-action videos of the BLM followers in action, attacking, burning, looting, and screaming in hate towards anyone that opposes them.


Fuck BLM. And Antifa. The anarchists, the terrorists, the Marxists, the fucking brain-dead zombies that worship them and gulp their hateful shit down like it is gospel from on high. The sooner they are all hunted down and crushed, the better we shall all be.


Ben Shapiro, Andrew Klavan, Michael Knowles, Matt Walsh, all of The Daily Wire, are certainly not confused about who BLM is. Neither is Glenn Beck, Dennis Prager, Dan Bongino, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingram, Rush Limbaugh, Candace Owens, Brandon Tatum, Larry Elder, Terrence Popp, Tim Pool, Salty Cracker, or Pastor John MacArthur, of Grace Community Church. Let alone AG William Barr, the head of Homeland Security, or President Donald Trump.


Semper Fidelis,


SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 21, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
I find it interesting that liberals supporting BLM say that they don't really mean to defund the police and that they are pro-cop, but when the leadership of BLM is interviewed they want to completely abolish the police (with defunding being a euphemism for that).


So yeah, when you use buzzfeed and MSN as sources, I don't consider them to be good examples of accurate reporting.
So I'm a liberal? And I support BLM?

That's fucking insane. But it's nice to hear one of you actually finally come out and say it. I suspected it, but I was never quite sure, because your posts have been so void of content.

That's why this has been so fucking surreal. I'm being attacked by people who won't debate any points I make, and everything they say appears to come from bizarroworld because their responses seem to be based on assumptions about me that are completely assbackwards.

It proves my tribalism hypothesis, tho. You labeled me an enemy based on -- well, hell if I know what. Something trivial and irrelevant, certainly. And then you assigned me politics based on whatever dogwhistle you imagine you heard. You got them pretty much 100% wrong, BTW.

And to address your attempt at a point, I've never heard a single person say that BLM is pro-cop, even liberals. Liberals, or at least their progressive wing, are the ones screaming defund the police, and even the more moderate types are in full-on pander mode and don't dare contradict the narrative. So that entire argument is nonsense.

Also, I used Buzzfeed because they were cited by Charity Navigator. I know nothing about them beyond that, and don't care. And I've cited probably 20 or 30 sources, and MSN is one of the most trivial, supporting a minor aside, and something that's unlikely to be misreported because it's really just a statement by BLM of how they're spending money (which is hard to find, because they're as transparent as a brick). It's basically a press release, not an analysis or investigative reporting. So you're clearly still combing through my posts looking for things you can cherry pick out of context and object to, because damn, I'm the Enemy. I have to believe all the insane shit you assigned me, don't I?

Fuck you and your tribalism. I'm the enemy of people like you, whatever their political beliefs.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 21, 2020, 09:47:34 PM
I find it interesting that liberals supporting BLM say that they don't really mean to defund the police and that they are pro-cop, but when the leadership of BLM is interviewed they want to completely abolish the police (with defunding being a euphemism for that).


So yeah, when you use buzzfeed and MSN as sources, I don't consider them to be good examples of accurate reporting.
So I'm a liberal? And I support BLM?

That's fucking insane. But it's nice to hear one of you actually finally come out and say it. I suspected it, but I was never quite sure, because your posts have been so void of content.

That's why this has been so fucking surreal. I'm being attacked by people who won't debate any points I make, and everything they say appears to come from bizarroworld because their responses seem to be based on assumptions about me that are completely assbackwards.

It proves my tribalism hypothesis, tho. You labeled me an enemy based on -- well, hell if I know what. Something trivial and irrelevant, certainly. And then you assigned me politics based on whatever dogwhistle you imagine you heard. You got them pretty much 100% wrong, BTW.

And to address your attempt at a point, I've never heard a single person say that BLM is pro-cop, even liberals. Liberals, or at least their progressive wing, are the ones screaming defund the police, and even the more moderate types are in full-on pander mode and don't dare contradict the narrative. So that entire argument is nonsense.

Also, I used Buzzfeed because they were cited by Charity Navigator. I know nothing about them beyond that, and don't care. And I've cited probably 20 or 30 sources, and MSN is one of the most trivial, supporting a minor aside, and something that's unlikely to be misreported because it's really just a statement by BLM of how they're spending money (which is hard to find, because they're as transparent as a brick). It's basically a press release, not an analysis or investigative reporting. So you're clearly still combing through my posts looking for things you can cherry pick out of context and object to, because damn, I'm the Enemy. I have to believe all the insane shit you assigned me, don't I?

Fuck you and your tribalism. I'm the enemy of people like you, whatever their political beliefs.




The only thing that's calling you a liberal is the voices in your head.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 21, 2020, 09:48:16 PM
And this is not even to say that Pat is necessarily correct (though, I am inclined to believe that they’re at least closer to reality), but that NOBODY (and anyone here is free to bring me a quote proving otherwise) is even attempting to actually refute anything that Pat said with actual data. It’s basically just people whining that Pat is raining on their parade by pointing out contradicting data with actual links to back up what he/she says. And you don’t even realize it! The whole thing is just wild. ;D
I'm not sure they're correct, I'm just reporting what I can find. But there's a lot of bad information out there, key among them idea that ActBlue is funneling money from BLM to Joe Biden. The so-called "smoking gun" of the DONATE button is based on a bad misunderstanding; it's just not a feasible mechanism.

That isn't a defense of BLM. I've pointed, endlessly, how they're a black hole for money. Nor does it absolve ActBlue; but as far as I can tell, their biggest sin is being too effective. They're figured out the secret sauce for getting lots of small donations from progressives, primarily to support Democratic political candidates, but also other kinds of progressive causes. This is especially important because of campaign finance limits, and it's something the Republicans lack, despite their attempt at mimicry with WinRed.

I'm surprised by your post, BTW. I had a negative impression of you after our last major interaction.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 21, 2020, 09:48:53 PM
The only thing that's calling you a liberal is the voices in your head.
The why did you quote my post? And why are you doing this? It makes zero sense to me.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 21, 2020, 10:11:40 PM
The only thing that's calling you a liberal is the voices in your head.
The why did you quote my post? And why are you doing this? It makes zero sense to me.


Because I'm on a phone at work and that is the quickest way to respond?


Why am I doing this? Because all of your posting on this subject has done more to confuse things than provide clarity. Hey, there was a group calling themselves BLM that had goals different from the BLM that we commonly know of and have been talking about. They got hit with a cease & desist by BLM. So what? Does that change what the goals are of  big BLM? Does it make big BLM more transparent? No?


Does that make sense to you now?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on September 22, 2020, 05:40:28 AM
So you're clearly still combing through my posts looking for things you can cherry pick out of context and object to, because damn, I'm the Enemy. I have to believe all the insane shit you assigned me, don't I?

Fuck you and your tribalism. I'm the enemy of people like you, whatever their political beliefs.
That's not too far from how I feel about the usual assholes here. Welcome to the other side of theRPGsite's fourth wall.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Abraxus on September 22, 2020, 08:33:54 AM
Enough with the bullshit about when a poster(s) disagree with you then you are "enemy" garbage.


Is this what it's come to when having a conversation one either agrees 1000% with the person or everyone else is the "enemy". If some here wanted an echo chamber why go to forums where one knows that the majority of the posters will either disagree and give push-back.


I know this place and it's posters are not the easiest to get along with sometimes yet your not the victim here. No one is forcing anyone or everyone to come here and post. No gun is being held at your head with the threat of death if one does not post here.


Either here or elsewhere one has to accept that sometimes posters won't agree with you on a topic and move on. Save the martyrdom and victim crap for those who are actually going through real suffering.


It's like seeing a 5 year old who does not get their way and rush off to their parents and saying "I'M TELLING". Grow a thick skin or go elsewhere.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 22, 2020, 11:02:26 AM
Honestly, at this point I don't really care. Trump is going to get another SCOTUS pick; the word is out that Romney will vote yes (I cannot help but wonder if someone passed him a note with Harry Reid's infamous response, when Reid was confronted about lying regarding Romney's tax returns: 'we won, didn't we?').


I also think it's very unlikely Sundown Joe will upset Trump. The Democrats have foolishly leashed their horses to the riots, and that will not make them popular no matter how many times they scream 'ORANGE MAN BAD'.


The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on September 22, 2020, 12:46:32 PM
And this is not even to say that Pat is necessarily correct (though, I am inclined to believe that they’re at least closer to reality), but that NOBODY (and anyone here is free to bring me a quote proving otherwise) is even attempting to actually refute anything that Pat said with actual data. It’s basically just people whining that Pat is raining on their parade by pointing out contradicting data with actual links to back up what he/she says. And you don’t even realize it! The whole thing is just wild. ;D
I'm not sure they're correct, I'm just reporting what I can find. But there's a lot of bad information out there, key among them idea that ActBlue is funneling money from BLM to Joe Biden. The so-called "smoking gun" of the DONATE button is based on a bad misunderstanding; it's just not a feasible mechanism.

That isn't a defense of BLM. I've pointed, endlessly, how they're a black hole for money. Nor does it absolve ActBlue; but as far as I can tell, their biggest sin is being too effective. They're figured out the secret sauce for getting lots of small donations from progressives, primarily to support Democratic political candidates, but also other kinds of progressive causes. This is especially important because of campaign finance limits, and it's something the Republicans lack, despite their attempt at mimicry with WinRed.

Yeah, I don’t think either of those organizations is good, but that doesn’t mean that therefore ActBlue is a giant funnel machine working under the mandate of the Democratic party. IIRC ActBlue started out as a way to help prop up progressive candidates and help them win out against Neo-Liberals, which make the core of the Democratic party—at least that was my impression of them years ago when I was on the progressive side. They aren’t there so much to help the Democratic party, but to help progressives get in, because there’s always been a schism between progressives and the Neo-Liberal establishment. Plus they pretty much report every cent they get—even small potato donations—to the Federal Election Commission. The idea that they’re working hand in hand with the Democratic party to funnel money and stuff just seems wrongheaded to me.

I'm surprised by your post, BTW. I had a negative impression of you after our last major interaction.

Yeah, I had been watching this back and forth for a few days now and it just didn’t seem right to me. The lack of self awareness just made my truth-sense go haywire. Too many people making personal attacks over someone bringing up counterpoints—without bothering to refute anything—then taking issue with being called “tribalistic”. Like there’s another likely explanation why someone would take issue with somebody else digging holes into their political posturing. Even made start thinking maybe HappyDaze had a point about this place turning into an echo chamber.

I tried to stay out of it at first, but it just made me feel like a hypocrite.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on September 22, 2020, 03:13:44 PM
Yeah, I don’t think either of those organizations is good, but that doesn’t mean that therefore ActBlue is a giant funnel machine working under the mandate of the Democratic party. IIRC ActBlue started out as a way to help prop up progressive candidates and help them win out against Neo-Liberals, which make the core of the Democratic party—at least that was my impression of them years ago when I was on the progressive side. They aren’t there so much to help the Democratic party, but to help progressives get in, because there’s always been a schism between progressives and the Neo-Liberal establishment. Plus they pretty much report every cent they get—even small potato donations—to the Federal Election Commission. The idea that they’re working hand in hand with the Democratic party to funnel money and stuff just seems wrongheaded to me.
While there are legal technicalities depending on how different funds are organized, I don't see how it is a moral scandal or scam if funds from BLM-related organizations help Democrats.

It seems to me that BLM supporters are strongly pro-Democrat. Even if Biden doesn't endorse BLM because they're too radical, BLM supporters are most certainly going to prefer Biden to Trump. I would think most BLM donors would not have any moral objections to their funds being used to help elect Democrats - especially progressive candidates but even mainstream ones over Republicans. As long as it's reported correctly and fits with the donor's wishes, it doesn't seem like a scandal to me.

I'd want to see evidence if there is a legal violation of regulations, but it seems like no one has been showing those.


I'm surprised by your post, BTW. I had a negative impression of you after our last major interaction.
Yeah, I had been watching this back and forth for a few days now and it just didn’t seem right to me. The lack of self awareness just made my truth-sense go haywire. Too many people making personal attacks over someone bringing up counterpoints—without bothering to refute anything—then taking issue with being called “tribalistic”. Like there’s another likely explanation why someone would take issue with somebody else digging holes into their political posturing. Even made start thinking maybe HappyDaze had a point about this place turning into an echo chamber.

I tried to stay out of it at first, but it just made me feel like a hypocrite.
I try to avoid any speculation about other poster's motivation. To my mind, the focus should be on evidence and position. I think Pat at least provided a lot of evidence (that I haven't gotten through yet), but most responses have been about a few offhand comments of his.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 22, 2020, 04:27:55 PM
While there are legal technicalities depending on how different funds are organized, I don't see how it is a moral scandal or scam if funds from BLM-related organizations help Democrats.



Being associated with a movement that has caused the destruction of black owned businesses,  the deaths of black people, and massive riots and looting might be a sticking point.



Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: DocJones on September 22, 2020, 04:44:05 PM
I find it interesting that liberals supporting BLM say that they don't really mean to defund the police and that they are pro-cop, but when the leadership of BLM is interviewed they want to completely abolish the police (with defunding being a euphemism for that).
Naw you definitely did misunderstand Pat.   I'm thinking of starting a Black Lives Matter organization so I can get in on the cash grab.
The purpose of my BLM organization would be a fund to elect prosecutors who would commit to enforcing laws against burning, looting and rioting.
And of course I'm going to collect a very generous salary. :-)

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on September 23, 2020, 12:31:59 PM
While there are legal technicalities depending on how different funds are organized, I don't see how it is a moral scandal or scam if funds from BLM-related organizations help Democrats.
Being associated with a movement that has caused the destruction of black owned businesses,  the deaths of black people, and massive riots and looting might be a sticking point.
The point was about funding, not about the movement itself.

There is a broad spectrum of supporters for BLM, from evangelical churches to companies like IBM as well as many grassroots supporters. The supporters do not believe that BLM causes violence. Rather, they feel that the violence is a result of the racial tension caused by deaths in police custody - just like most anti-abortion advocates do not endorse or support the violence and terrorism associated with it.

Even if you disagree with the supporters, that doesn't make it a scandal that they donate money - any more than it would be a scandal if they vote. People with opposing views exist, and will vote, advocate, and donate money in accordance with their views.

The problem I have with hashtag movements like BLM is that overwhelmingly, it's just a litmus test of identity - not any specific policies. At this point, BLM is more organized than many other such movements. There is a platform created by organizers, but most supporters have never read that platform - and probably wouldn't agree with much of it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 23, 2020, 04:08:07 PM
Why am I doing this? Because all of your posting on this subject has done more to confuse things than provide clarity. Hey, there was a group calling themselves BLM that had goals different from the BLM that we commonly know of and have been talking about. They got hit with a cease & desist by BLM. So what? Does that change what the goals are of  big BLM? Does it make big BLM more transparent? No?


Does that make sense to you now?
No. That makes it seems like you're driven by an agenda, and the only measure of things is whether they support or oppose that agenda, facts be damned.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 23, 2020, 04:09:05 PM
That's not too far from how I feel about the usual assholes here. Welcome to the other side of theRPGsite's fourth wall.
To be fair, you mostly post the same way these days.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 23, 2020, 04:52:51 PM

Yeah, I had been watching this back and forth for a few days now and it just didn’t seem right to me. The lack of self awareness just made my truth-sense go haywire. Too many people making personal attacks over someone bringing up counterpoints—without bothering to refute anything—then taking issue with being called “tribalistic”. Like there’s another likely explanation why someone would take issue with somebody else digging holes into their political posturing. Even made start thinking maybe HappyDaze had a point about this place turning into an echo chamber.
It's not a complete echo chamber, there are a few members of the valiant opposition, and a few people who don't neatly fit into boxes. But there has been a problem with dogpiling for a long while. I don't think it's deliberate, it's just a natural consequence when there's only one person speaking from one position, and a half a dozen speaking against it. That imbalance means the number of replies can get overwhelming, and on top of that there seems to be a wolfpack effect where the posters who gang up get more vicious because of the perceived moral support. That's why I generally don't respond to those solitary posters, or drop out of the discussion when a wolfpack starts to form. There's also been a growing tendency, in just the last month or two, toward rah-rah cheerleader posts, rather than substantive content. That probably just feeds the wolfpack tendencies. Since these all make it more likely that the people who aren't part of the dominant bloc will burn out and quit, it does have the tendency to make the place more of an echo chamber.

I'm not sure if there's a good solution. I seem to value free speech more than most on the board, so I'm not a fan of most of the obvious attempts to address it. I just occasionally engage in metadiscussions like this, in order to raise awareness, though I doubt it has much effect.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 23, 2020, 04:59:16 PM
Is this what it's come to when having a conversation one either agrees 1000% with the person or everyone else is the "enemy". If some here wanted an echo chamber why go to forums where one knows that the majority of the posters will either disagree and give push-back.
If you're talking to me, you should quote me or refer to me by name. This passive aggressive dancing around doesn't help.

And if you are talking to me, I'm fine with opposition. You'll notice I haven't faded away. The problem is the complete lack of arguments. I'm just being randomly insulted, for no reason I can grok. That's boring. I want to have discussions with people who don't think like I do, and try to understand where they're coming from. Not these shadowgames of we hate you but we we won't tell you why. That's why I've been constantly bringing the discussion back on topic, and bringing up more details, information, and sources. I want people to dispute what I'm saying, because that's one of the best ways to refine and develop my own beliefs.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 23, 2020, 05:13:49 PM
There is a broad spectrum of supporters for BLM, from evangelical churches to companies like IBM as well as many grassroots supporters. The supporters do not believe that BLM causes violence. Rather, they feel that the violence is a result of the racial tension caused by deaths in police custody - just like most anti-abortion advocates do not endorse or support the violence and terrorism associated with it.
That's the public narrative, and there is definitely is a vocal minority and possibility a plurality who truly believe in the cause. But I'm not sure most of the ostensible supporters are true believers. A lot of businesses in areas that might suffer from riots put up signs in support of BLM, because they hope it will reduce the chances their shop will be looted or burned. And several larger companies have been targets of public shame campaigns for not being proactively anti-racist enough, which is sufficient to explain why a lot of other companies are making public statements of support. I don't doubt there are some true believers, but a lot of this is the virtue signaling/PR/marketing equivalent of Mafia protection rackets.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on September 23, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Act Blue is a payment portal that is associated with liberal causes.  There are many payment portals that people are familiar with, like Kickstarter and GoFundMe.  If there is a BLM kickstarter, (and there are several (https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/advanced?ref=nav_search&term=blm)) it does not mean that money you pledge to The Scarlet Citadel (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/deepmagic/the-scarlet-citadel-a-5th-edition-dungeon-of-secrets?ref=discovery&term=dungeon) goes to support BLM decals.  They're different projects that all use the same funding site.  ActBlue (https://secure.actblue.com/) works in a similar way - there are approximately 15,000 causes/candidates that you can donate to via ActBlue.  A donation to Doug Jones isn't the same as a donation to Joe Biden and isn't the same as a donation to BLM.  But you can donate to ALL OF THEM if you want to.  Unlike Kickstarter, ActBlue is political - they're devoted to 'liberal' causes and candidates.  You cannot donate to Mitch McConnell or Donald Trump on ActBlue, but that doesn't mean that a donation to one candidate or cause automatically means you support EVERY candidate and cause, just like supporting one KickStarter doesn't mean you support EVERY Kickstarter. 


Hopefully that Analogy makes it sufficiently clear for the slow kids in the class.  You don't donate TO ActBlue, you donate THROUGH ActBlue and you have to designate the recipient BEFORE you donate. 


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 23, 2020, 06:29:15 PM
Why am I doing this? Because all of your posting on this subject has done more to confuse things than provide clarity. Hey, there was a group calling themselves BLM that had goals different from the BLM that we commonly know of and have been talking about. They got hit with a cease & desist by BLM. So what? Does that change what the goals are of  big BLM? Does it make big BLM more transparent? No?


Does that make sense to you now?
No. That makes it seems like you're driven by an agenda, and the only measure of things is whether they support or oppose that agenda, facts be damned.


Hmmmm.....Well, being against community action groups started by Marxists who support violent protesting in order to build a new nation in the ashes of the old and being aided by politicians who should know better - yeah, I am against that. I guess that not spreading around burning, looting, and murder for Marxism is my agenda.


You've done it, Pat. You've found me out. Good job.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on September 23, 2020, 06:43:30 PM
That's not too far from how I feel about the usual assholes here. Welcome to the other side of theRPGsite's fourth wall.
To be fair, you mostly post the same way these days.
You're not going to get me to feel bad about calling out the assholes that support escalating violence against others for their beliefs.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 23, 2020, 06:44:50 PM
Why am I doing this? Because all of your posting on this subject has done more to confuse things than provide clarity. Hey, there was a group calling themselves BLM that had goals different from the BLM that we commonly know of and have been talking about. They got hit with a cease & desist by BLM. So what? Does that change what the goals are of  big BLM? Does it make big BLM more transparent? No?


Does that make sense to you now?
No. That makes it seems like you're driven by an agenda, and the only measure of things is whether they support or oppose that agenda, facts be damned.


Hmmmm.....Well, being against community action groups started by Marxists who support violent protesting in order to build a new nation in the ashes of the old and being aided by politicians who should know better - yeah, I am against that. I guess that not spreading around burning, looting, and murder for Marxism is my agenda.


You've done it, Pat. You've found me out. Good job.
I oppose them for quite a few more reasons than that, but I prefer to base it on facts, not falsehoods.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on September 23, 2020, 06:55:11 PM
Which part of that post is a falsehood? Burning, looting, murder, or Marxism?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 23, 2020, 07:09:00 PM
Which part of that post is a falsehood? Burning, looting, murder, or Marxism?
Sigh.

The whole discussion for the past umpteenth pages has been about ActBlue, and their relationship with BLM. Jeff and others were saying ActBlue was funneling money donated to BLM to Biden, based on the DONATE button on BLM's homepage. That's false, it's not how ActBlue operates, it's a fundraising platform and payment processor. They passthrough the money donated to the specific charities or other organizations, it's not a general fund they shift around.

This last post is just Jeff trying to reframe the discussion to make it about him fighting a valiant fight against BLM, and implying that anyone who disagrees with him is supporting them. Which is absolute nonsense, all he's been doing is making disparaging remarks, while I've been trying to figure out the truth.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 23, 2020, 08:06:21 PM
Which part of that post is a falsehood? Burning, looting, murder, or Marxism?
Sigh.

The whole discussion for the past umpteenth pages has been about ActBlue, and their relationship with BLM. Jeff and others were saying ActBlue was funneling money donated to BLM to Biden, based on the DONATE button on BLM's homepage. That's false, it's not how ActBlue operates, it's a fundraising platform and payment processor. They passthrough the money donated to the specific charities or other organizations, it's not a general fund they shift around.

This last post is just Jeff trying to reframe the discussion to make it about him fighting a valiant fight against BLM, and implying that anyone who disagrees with him is supporting them. Which is absolute nonsense, all he's been doing is making disparaging remarks, while I've been trying to figure out the truth.


Yup, because I am a White Knight and not just some opinionated asshole on a message board. Please, will someone help me lift this cross off of Pat? I think that it is more than he can bear.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on September 23, 2020, 08:20:34 PM
I think it would be nice if everyone who posted in the last three pages conceded that the point Pat has been making (to reiterate, payments to BLM are not directly paid to the Biden campaign, even if both process through ActBlue) would concede that Pat is correct and if it APPEARED they were disagreeing on that point, they were at the very least being misunderstood or, and this might be a bridge too far, but admit they were wrong.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on September 23, 2020, 08:30:40 PM
I'm thinking of starting a Black Lives Matter organization so I can get in on the cash grab.
My idea was to have an All Blacks Lives Matter dedicated to help overthrow the evil Wallabies and Springboks who always try and oppress them and take their trophies away.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 23, 2020, 08:46:42 PM
That's not too far from how I feel about the usual assholes here. Welcome to the other side of theRPGsite's fourth wall.
To be fair, you mostly post the same way these days.
You're not going to get me to feel bad about calling out the assholes that support escalating violence against others for their beliefs.


Let me know when you get around to that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 23, 2020, 09:01:24 PM
I think it would be nice if everyone who posted in the last three pages conceded that the point Pat has been making (to reiterate, payments to BLM are not directly paid to the Biden campaign, even if both process through ActBlue) would concede that Pat is correct and if it APPEARED they were disagreeing on that point, they were at the very least being misunderstood or, and this might be a bridge too far, but admit they were wrong.


No.


The information that Pat has provided about BLM and ActBlue just makes me feel more concerned about Burn Loot Murder because it demonstrates that a political action group only 7 years old already know how to game the system so that rubes who dig into it just help to obfuscate the money trail.


Obviously, they are being advised by experts.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on September 23, 2020, 11:58:58 PM
My idea was to have an All Blacks Lives Matter dedicated to help overthrow the evil Wallabies and Springboks who always try and oppress them and take their trophies away.
Finally, a charity worth supporting.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on September 24, 2020, 12:18:22 AM
Pat, I don't think you're right about ActBlue simply because the media has been happy to report how much donation is going to Burn Loot Murder and its easy to see how much traffic is being aimed at their website, but the MSM never mentions the ActBlue connection, and then suddenly and magically BLAMMO, the Biden campaign reports MEGA-MILLIONS for a candidate who was far behind in fundraising for a year.

To me, something smells like shit and there is ZERO reason to trust any organization devoted to the destruction of America. The DNC is pushing their "remake America" agenda very loud and abundantly clear. "Burn the whole system down" is being touted by their voters and MSM surrogates.

Though it's funny you brought up Charity Navigator...an organization which exists because of how many big name non-profits were total scumbags stuffing their pockets. If Trump wins, it will be interesting to hear what the IRS has to say about BLM in a year or two. Of course, if Biden wins, I'm well aware no questions will ever be allowed.

However, I don't have the time to do a deep research into the financial shenanigans I suspect so I will not concede your point, but I won't argue against it either.


I want people to dispute what I'm saying, because that's one of the best ways to refine and develop my own beliefs.
And this is why Pat isn't a leftist, or a liberal, or whatever the communists are calling themselves now.

Plus he called us deplorable monsters a "wolfpack", so what's not to like?

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9c/98/2e/9c982e67d786961a6ca42b67a93fa885.jpg)


I think it would be nice if everyone who posted in the last three pages conceded that the point Pat has been making
I think it would be nice if everyone who supports BLM gets deported.

When you find the genie's bottle, you can have your wish and I'll go next.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 24, 2020, 02:43:46 AM
The information that Pat has provided about BLM and ActBlue just makes me feel more concerned about Burn Loot Murder because it demonstrates that a political action group only 7 years old already know how to game the system so that rubes who dig into it just help to obfuscate the money trail.


Obviously, they are being advised by experts.
You're lying by implication. Again. Nothing I posted is supposed to make you feel less concerned. The exact opposite, in fact. I've been pointing out their complete lack of transparency, and how we know basically nothing about their structure, where the money is going, or even how much they've raised. BLM is basically a giant black hole when it comes to money and accountability.

And yes, they have expert advisors. I've been pointing that out, as well. They have been fully adopted by what is perhaps the greatest fund raising machine developed in the last 20 years, ActBlue. Thousand Currents and now Tides have more than 30 years experience each in complying with the requirements of a 501(c)3 charity, and their sponsorships allow BLM to act and receive money as a 501(c)3 charity, while still being able to operate as a private for-profit corporation, with its far more limited disclosure requirements. The admission by their founders that they have Marxist training is a hell of lot to unpack regarding both their motives and methods, but at the least it means they're full versed in the methods of hardcore activism, and what the founders believe probably diverges massively from the popular narrative of what the movement is about.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 24, 2020, 03:11:14 AM
Pat, I don't think you're right about ActBlue simply because the media has been happy to report how much donation is going to Burn Loot Murder and its easy to see how much traffic is being aimed at their website, but the MSM never mentions the ActBlue connection, and then suddenly and magically BLAMMO, the Biden campaign reports MEGA-MILLIONS for a candidate who was far behind in fundraising for a year.
I agree Biden's latest monthly fund raising total is really hard to explain. I can come up with rationales, like maybe the extreme leftists have finally given up on their quixotic desire for a more progressive candidate and rallied behind the only practical choice, or maybe it's a spillover from the MSM's unremitting push in favor of the riots, or maybe it's a bounce because Biden's finally showing his head after all those months where he was basically quarantined at home. But I don't find any of them satisfactory.

And I'm also very suspicious about the money going to BLM. With sycophantic front page attention for months from almost all major media outlets and their status as the cause celebre of the left, I'd expect they'd be raising tens or hundreds of millions of dollars a year. But the highest amount of spending I can find is the $6.5 million project reported in the MSN article. Most of that money should be coming through ActBlue, specifically ActBlue Charities. And since they're operating under the wing of 501(c)3 organizations, those totals should be publicly available. But I don't know enough about sponsorship to know where, when, or how that would be reported. Thousand Currents and Tides have annual revenues in the $4-6 million dollar range, which seems too low to include the donations to BLM. It could just be that there's been a big surge in donations, but they don't have to report it until the end of the year. But somebody should at least be bragging, or talking about what they plan to do with the windfall.

We're missing something. But ActBlue doesn't seem like a plausible mechanism.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 24, 2020, 03:47:54 AM

You're lying by implication. Again.


OK, why don't you go ahead and unpack that. Assume I'm slow on the uptake and wasn't pointing out that BLM was a shady organization back when DriveThruRPG first said that they were going to support them a few months ago.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on September 24, 2020, 04:13:37 AM
OK, why don't you go ahead and unpack that. Assume I'm slow on the uptake and wasn't pointing out that BLM was a shady organization back when DriveThruRPG first said that they were going to support them a few months ago.
I explained it in the rest of the post. You keep trying to frame things as if you oppose BLM, and everyone who you disagree with supports them. Except nobody's defended BLM[1], especially not me.

[1] Except jhkim, but that's a recent post. He hasn't really been part of this discussion.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on September 24, 2020, 04:30:31 AM
OK, why don't you go ahead and unpack that. Assume I'm slow on the uptake and wasn't pointing out that BLM was a shady organization back when DriveThruRPG first said that they were going to support them a few months ago.
I explained it in the rest of the post. You keep trying to frame things as if you oppose BLM, and everyone who you disagree with supports them. Except nobody's defended BLM[1], especially not me.

[1] Except jhkim, but that's a recent post. He hasn't really been part of this discussion.


OK, I guess I apologise for hurting your feelings, because I am definitely not claiming that anyone I disagree with is a BLM supporter - that shit is all in your head.



Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on September 24, 2020, 11:10:57 AM
They're rioting again because an alleged drug dealer's ex-girlfriend got shot after her possible drug dealing boyfriend shot an officer in the femoral artery.


MSM's keeping a very tight lid on the details of how it all went down (including that they changed the no-knock to a knock in the field) so that tells you the fix is in.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on September 24, 2020, 04:03:18 PM
Several sites (including Cook Political (https://cookpolitical.com/swingometer?)) have released demographic tools to see how partisanship/participation rates will impact the election. 


They also include an introduction to the tool in an article titled DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGES SINCE 2016 ALONE COULD BE ENOUGH TO DEFEAT TRUMP (https://cookpolitical.com/index.php/analysis/national/national-politics/demographic-change-2016-alone-could-be-enough-defeat-trump)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on September 24, 2020, 06:50:30 PM
Several sites (including Cook Political (https://cookpolitical.com/swingometer?)) have released demographic tools to see how partisanship/participation rates will impact the election. 


They also include an introduction to the tool in an article titled DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGES SINCE 2016 ALONE COULD BE ENOUGH TO DEFEAT TRUMP (https://cookpolitical.com/index.php/analysis/national/national-politics/demographic-change-2016-alone-could-be-enough-defeat-trump)
Yeah.  That bastion of the alt-right neo-nazi movement, Tim Pool, pointed that one out yesterday...


It's based on a 92%-8% Black split and a 72%-28% Latino split...
but a 2-3% point flip for Trump in both categories gives him the win.
The question is "Do you think Biden is really polling that high?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVXV1kxn4aI&t=0s  (approx 5:45)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on September 25, 2020, 04:28:26 PM
Since 1860, no Republican has won the white house without winning Ohio. 


A trio of polls released this week show Biden leading in Ohio anywhere from +1 to +5.  FiveThirtyEight had previously shown this as 'leaning Republican', but it is now a 'toss-up' with a projected vote share of Biden by 1.  Real Clear Politics which uses a simple average of polls now shows Ohio as Biden +3.3.


As a result, the 'snake chart' on 538's website now shows Ohio as slightly blue, with Georgia as one of the states that Trump maintains an advantage.  Five Thirty Eight is projecting a 2% win for Trump in Georgia, 50.6% to 48.5%. 


In 2016, Trump won Georgia by 5% points, while Clinton won the popular vote by 2%, indicating that Georgia is ~7% more Republican than the National vote.  Biden is currently polling at +6.9% versus President Trump.  While Georgia remains a perennial hopeful breakthrough for Democrats, it may end up being a real nail-biter.  Even Texas, which went for Trump by 10% in 2016 is polling within the margin of error. 


Of course, the real news lately is that Trump doesn't believe that he COULD lose in free and fair elections, and consequently, if he DOES LOSE it automatically implies that the elections were not free and fair so he has not agreed to abide by their results.  In fact, it has been confirmed that he has been working with the Republican legislature in PA to replace duly elected electors with a slate of electors loyal to him (disregarding and disenfranchising voters in PA in the process). 


But for some reason, on this site, I only ever hear of how Democrats are anti-Democratic. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on September 25, 2020, 04:41:52 PM

But for some reason, on this site, I only ever hear of how Democrats are anti-Democratic.
The party that wants more mail in voting and no voting IDs might know a thing or two about election fraud. See Al Franken in Minnesota, JFK in Illinois for examples.
Republicans shouldn't fraud either. No one should fraud but I believe its widespread and getting worse.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on September 25, 2020, 05:14:50 PM
No one should fraud but I believe its widespread and getting worse.


Why do you think it is widespread and getting worse?  If someone is legally allowed to vote, they attest that they are voting, and their vote is recorded (without ID), how likely do you think fraud is, really? 


Do you agree/accept that one way to prevent that type of fraud would be to ensure that EVERYONE votes? 


I think it's strange that you would suspect there is massive voter fraud when the people who examine this  (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/24/us/politics/fbi-director-voter-fraud.html).


Or maybe you get your truth from the gut (http://www.cc.com/video-clips/wfrwar/the-colbert-report-truth-from-the-gut)? 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 25, 2020, 06:11:08 PM
Or maybe you get your truth from the gut (http://www.cc.com/video-clips/wfrwar/the-colbert-report-truth-from-the-gut)?


At least don't get your truth from a talk show shill.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on September 25, 2020, 11:15:52 PM
Why do you think it is widespread and getting worse?
If there is massive mail in voting, the fraud can be worse. the Postal Workers Union endorsed Biden but we should expect them to deliver votes perfectly without bias?


If someone is legally allowed to vote, they attest that they are voting, and their vote is recorded (without ID), how likely do you think fraud is, really? 
I gave examples which you ignored.


As to "without ID" lol then why do we need IDs for so many other things that we do? Bank accounts, driving, buying a gun, buying alcohol, getting a mortgage, etc., etc.


Do you agree/accept that one way to prevent that type of fraud would be to ensure that EVERYONE votes? 
Absolutely not. If they can't be bothered to vote, how can they be even remotely similar to an educated voter?
 They might as well press randomly in the ballot box.


I think it's strange that you would suspect there is massive voter fraud when the people who examine this  (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/24/us/politics/fbi-director-voter-fraud.html).


New York Times, so unbiased. The FBI is deep state. Entrenched bureaucracies are more loyal to preserving the bureaucracy than party affiliation or the truth. Hence the nonsense the country endured for 2 years with the Russia dossier.

Or maybe you get your truth from the gut (http://www.cc.com/video-clips/wfrwar/the-colbert-report-truth-from-the-gut)?
Not even worth responding to. Richard J. Daley famously said he got Kennedy the 1960 election with "found" ballots. There is no reason not to use ID in the voting process. Of course, these days they give IDs out to illegal immigrants so even that wouldn't matter unless we ensured only citizens voted.


Who is against voter ID and pushing mail in voting while also having the strictest lockdowns for COVID? The Democrats, of course.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on September 26, 2020, 03:01:31 PM
This was in May, and yet the numbers were already in the 4 digit range for cases of proven Voter Fraud. https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/database-swells-1285-proven-cases-voter-fraud-america
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on September 26, 2020, 03:05:03 PM
No one should fraud but I believe its widespread and getting worse.


Why do you think it is widespread and getting worse?  If someone is legally allowed to vote, they attest that they are voting, and their vote is recorded (without ID), how likely do you think fraud is, really? 


Do you agree/accept that one way to prevent that type of fraud would be to ensure that EVERYONE votes? 


I think it's strange that you would suspect there is massive voter fraud when the people who examine this  (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/24/us/politics/fbi-director-voter-fraud.html).


Or maybe you get your truth from the gut (http://www.cc.com/video-clips/wfrwar/the-colbert-report-truth-from-the-gut)?


How about registered voter ID, which would reduce voter fraud markedly? And actually no, ensuring everyone votes won't prevent voter fraud, as the most common form of voter fraud is voting multiple times in different states or districts...


https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/database-swells-1285-proven-cases-voter-fraud-america (https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/database-swells-1285-proven-cases-voter-fraud-america)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on September 28, 2020, 04:59:02 AM
I think it's strange that you would suspect there is massive voter fraud when the people who examine this  (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/24/us/politics/fbi-director-voter-fraud.html).
How about registered voter ID, which would reduce voter fraud markedly? And actually no, ensuring everyone votes won't prevent voter fraud, as the most common form of voter fraud is voting multiple times in different states or districts...

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/database-swells-1285-proven-cases-voter-fraud-america (https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/database-swells-1285-proven-cases-voter-fraud-america)
In a country of 328 million, 1285 cases is an extremely small fraction - and that is spread over 4 years and thus hundreds of elections (including state and national elections). That does not contradict the FBI finding. I support finding and prosecuting cases of fraud. But there's a huge difference between 1285 and the supposedly millions of illegal votes that many are claiming.

If the amount of actual fraud is anywhere close to this, then it's far more common for a valid voter to not have a valid ID - which could be more than a million people. (ref) (https://journalistsresource.org/studies/politics/elections/voter-photo-id-law-research/) The effect of the law here is to put an additional bureaucratic hurdle and cost for such people to vote. Unequal bureaucratic hurdles decreases voter turnout.

I would say that it is more a problem with the existing American ID systems than anything. The government should really issue all citizens an ID, rather than making ID a privilege that you have to jump through bureaucratic hurdles and pay money to obtain. However, given our existing wacky ID system, then most of the voter ID laws cause more change by making it more difficult for a few valid citizens than reducing fraud. (Especially since not all forms of fraud are prevented by voter ID.)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 28, 2020, 08:39:03 AM
In a country of 328 million, 1285 cases is an extremely small fraction - and that is spread over 4 years and thus hundreds of elections (including state and national elections). That does not contradict the FBI finding. I support finding and prosecuting cases of fraud. But there's a huge difference between 1285 and the supposedly millions of illegal votes that many are claiming.

If the amount of actual fraud is anywhere close to this, then it's far more common for a valid voter to not have a valid ID - which could be more than a million people. (ref) (https://journalistsresource.org/studies/politics/elections/voter-photo-id-law-research/) The effect of the law here is to put an additional bureaucratic hurdle and cost for such people to vote. Unequal bureaucratic hurdles decreases voter turnout.
That's the one's we've caught, not the total number.

Quote
I would say that it is more a problem with the existing American ID systems than anything. The government should really issue all citizens an ID, rather than making ID a privilege that you have to jump through bureaucratic hurdles and pay money to obtain. However, given our existing wacky ID system, then most of the voter ID laws cause more change by making it more difficult for a few valid citizens than reducing fraud. (Especially since not all forms of fraud are prevented by voter ID.)
One, the federal government lacks a mandate for such. Most states have easy to get photo IDs anyways even if you're poor (and frankly, if you're not willing to haul your fat ass down to the building to GET the ID? I'm not certain you should be voting).


Two, Democrats lose their marbles when photo ID is brought up. It's like they're worried about something...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Steven Mitchell on September 28, 2020, 08:56:25 AM
I don't consider the number of proving cases of fraud to be useful in this discussion.  It is extremely difficult in most jurisdictions where the fraud is occurring to get the DA to prosecute--even assuming you can get the relevant authorities to pursue enough of a case for the DA to have a shot.  If you do so, you are unlikely to get a conviction.  Yeah, the corrupt people that are doing the fraud are the people in power and you expect us to take lack of convictions as critical to the discussion?  That's taking disingenuous to a new level. 

Here's a fact:  Nowhere gets 100% voter participation.  Here's another fact:  There are almost 400 documented cases in the last few years where a registration board reported voting that exceeded 100% of the registered voters.  Ergo, massive fraud was committed in those areas.  The lack of convictions proves my point above.  There's a lot more that push right up to that 100% number but are mathematically literate enough to not quite go over.  That's not even counting systematically removed votes, such as the multiple times where boards have not counted military ballots in a close election.  (No, I'm not talking the usual case where absentees are not counted if the total number is not enough to change the count.  See 2000 Florida.)

Note that the "registered voter commits fraud" is a tiny percentage of the fraud.  Much of it is illegal aliens voting as non-citizens, but even more is likely the so called "stuffed" ballot boxes, though what constitutes "stuffed" is a little more technically tricky now than when the term was coined.  As with the 2016 Michigan recount, when they stopped the recount when they discovered that the vote tallies in certain areas vastly inflated the number of ballots in the box.  That is, it wasn't that a group of people conspired to make fraudulent votes but rather that the election monitoring officials simply lied about the count.  A classic case of Stalin's voting statement.

There is a deep history of voting fraud in this country, going back to at least 1840's Florida.   Miami-Dade was producing the numbers "needed" even back then.  Some federal investigators ended up in the swamp and never came out again over that one.  Yep, it goes back that far.  It hasn't been all one party, but it has been mostly one party.  Most of the Republican fraud is in the 1870-1890 range, notable for almost complete, sustained power over a lot of areas.  Power corrupts.  Democrats have absolute power in a lot of places for a long time, and it happens to correspond very tightly with those 100%+ voter "turnout" areas.
So let's cut to the chase and lay off the disingenuous crap.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on September 28, 2020, 09:40:37 AM
Nothing to see here, folks!

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/ilhan-omar-connected-cash-for-ballots-voter-fraud-scheme-corrupts-elections/ (https://www.projectveritas.com/news/ilhan-omar-connected-cash-for-ballots-voter-fraud-scheme-corrupts-elections/)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 28, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Nothing to see here, folks!

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/ilhan-omar-connected-cash-for-ballots-voter-fraud-scheme-corrupts-elections/ (https://www.projectveritas.com/news/ilhan-omar-connected-cash-for-ballots-voter-fraud-scheme-corrupts-elections/)
That bitch needs to be put on the next flight back to her hometown. Posthaste.


Go ahead, call me a racist. She's as dirty as any Chicago Dem. Did they ever untangle who she was actually married to and when?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on September 28, 2020, 11:21:26 PM
Did they ever untangle who she was actually married to and when?
No, as an Islamic female Democrat of color, she has immunity to the law.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on September 28, 2020, 11:52:02 PM

Greetings!


"You get in the van, and they give you cash." From the Project Veritas article that Brad posted. Thank you, Brad!


Fucking scum. Illhan Omar, I've always wondered who the fuck put her into power? They are all corrupt, greedy Marxists. I hope the Federal authorities arrest her, and send her to prison for many, many years. Harsh and unforgiving. She's a fucking traitor and a disgrace to the sincere foreign immigrants that come to this country seeking a better life. Her and all of the fucking "Squad" are a bunch of filthy, diseased rats. All of them are Marxists and Kool-Aid guzzling frauds.


Semper Fidelis,


SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on September 29, 2020, 01:15:31 PM
Isn't the penalty for treason (if her actions are construed as such) still death?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on September 30, 2020, 02:35:40 AM
Isn't the penalty for treason (if her actions are construed as such) still death?


For TREASON? Yes and no: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381)
For SEDITION? No: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384)


My best guess is they would have to prove her being in Congress is to Damage/Overthrow the U.S. Government, funding or working directly with those the U.S. is currently at war with (War On Terror != Declared 'legal' War), and/or directly being influenced by Foreign Legal Entities outside of U.S. Jurisdiction which are known Hostile Actors to The U.S. Government and/or it's People.


My best guess is: They ship her out to be punished by another country by claiming Citizenship Fraud (Best case scenario - worst case is: Nothing Happens).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Slipshot762 on September 30, 2020, 06:29:26 PM
In my 40 years of life everytime i go down to the church to vote you have to show ID even though the workers know you personally and find yourself in a mass of binders and sign the affidavit thing before you get to touch the voting machine. i dont trust mail in ballots and i wont use one, hell or high water, covid or no i will vote in person.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Joey2k on September 30, 2020, 07:05:05 PM
1285 cases doesn't mean 1285 fraudulent votes, right?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Delete_me on September 30, 2020, 09:13:14 PM
Correct. It means 1285 incidents investigated. That means the number of fraudulent votes was probably far less as the investigation most likely turned up a reason of, "I'm a dumbass and forgot I had already done this," from the voter more often than, "I tried to vote twice to steal the election."
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on October 01, 2020, 12:05:02 AM
Chewbacca vs the Swedish Chef


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on October 01, 2020, 01:47:55 AM
My favorite part of the debate was when Trump started singing "Throw the Leftist down the well so my people can be free!" and we all sang along at home.

My second favorite part was when Biden snarked about beating Bernie, disavowed universal healthcare, and then disavowed the Green New Deal.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on October 05, 2020, 04:08:23 PM
On September 29th, the Real Clear Politics Betting Average had Trump at 45, and Biden at 54.5.  Following the debate the betting odds have shifted decisively toward Biden; they are currently at 37.5 Trump and 61.0 Biden.  This is roughly tied with Biden's biggest advantage in the polls from the first week of August. 

Trump lost the advantage in the betting markets on June 2nd; on September 1st they had converged to a near tie. 

Here's an article (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/09/02/betting-markets-swing-toward-trump-forecasting-tightening-race/#1b467b986bfe) from Forbes from last month when the odds were tightening.

Of course, the election is far from over.  The battleground states at the moment are fairly large states as far as Electoral Votes go.  Ohio is rated as a 50/50 toss-up, and Florida notoriously difficult to poll, it wouldn't be hard to imagine a situation where the winner will have to win in both Arizona and Pennsylvania. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on October 05, 2020, 06:19:23 PM
I am old enough to remember that Clinton was the betting favourite candidate during the 2016 election.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 05, 2020, 07:03:54 PM
I am old enough to remember that Clinton was the betting favourite candidate during the 2016 election.



Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on October 05, 2020, 07:21:53 PM
Trump could easily lose the election. The DNC's voter fraud machine and MSM control is nothing to scoff at. We have a country full of diaper faces cool with their incoming economic destruction, so the MSM's power is truly ascendant.

In 2016, the leftists "knew 100%" there was no chance for Trump so it was just fun and games until her regal coronation. In 2020, they will stop at nothing to regain control.

However, in 2020, they also "know 100%" that American patriots will kneel in obedience the moment Trump is gone. While that's absolutely true for Republican politicians, that might not be true for all Americans. 

You can already see the Republicans in Washington lining up to bow to Biden. Amy Coney Barrett needed to be seated ASAP, but its all finger twiddling because Trump gone makes the RNC think they'll "get their party back" and Trump's fans will have no choice but support them.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on October 07, 2020, 12:58:25 PM
In July, I read an article (https://www.newsbreak.com/news/1595088405507/republicans-internal-polls-predict-a-democratic-rout-this-fall-election-analyst) that talked about Internal Polling, and how campaigns tend to share internal polling to help drive the narrative.  We know that internal polls tend to be biased toward the person commissioning the poll, so it's not uncommon for internal polls from both parties to show a very different race - ie, in one the incumbent shows a significant lead, and in the other the incumbent shows a smaller and potentially surmountable lead.  These types of polls help drive fundraising to close the gap/put the  race away. 

Throughout the election cycle, there has been an expectation that polls would tighten as we approach election day.  A 5% polling lead in a state might decrease to a 3% lead by election day, and with a margin of error of 4% that could mean that the race is absolutely a toss-up. 

That's not what appears to be happening (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/519901-republican-fears-grow-over-rising-democratic-tide).

Quote
A poll conducted for CNN, released on Tuesday, showed Biden leading Trump by a 57 percent to 41 percent margin. An NBC-Wall Street Journal survey released over the weekend showed Biden ahead by 14 points. Even Rasmussen, the Republican-leaning pollster that Trump so often touts, found Biden ahead by 8 in their most recent survey.

Virtually every battleground poll is breaking against Trump as well. Recent surveys put Biden well ahead in Arizona, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan and New Hampshire. Trump leads by small margins in usually solidly Republican states like Texas, Missouri and South Carolina. Internal Republican polls show Trump only narrowly leading in states like Montana and Kansas.

“These last three weeks have just felt terrible,” said Jai Chabria, a Republican strategist in Ohio. “It feels like the Democrats have momentum going into this last month, certainly, but I don’t think anyone knows what that means.”
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on October 07, 2020, 01:12:42 PM
NPR covered that as well, but their narrative to explain it didn't seem to make much sense. They focused very heavily on the debate, and talked about how voters looked at the two candidates, and didn't want Trump the Bully™ on their TV screens for another 4 years. In other words, they were very strongly suggesting that Biden won the debates. But the polls among undecided voters who watched the debates showed the opposite, most starkly the Telemundo poll that was 2:1 in favor of Trump. Biden was steamrolled, and didn't even take it gracefully. He responded with blatant insults, so he can't even claim the high road. Overall, he came across as weak, and that's pretty much the #1 sin in presidential elections.

So why is this happening? Doesn't seem likely that the polls themselves are jacked, because both sides are showing similar trends. It could be that the number of people lying to polls has jumped even more. Or there could be a seismic change in what people are looking for in a candidate. Have the riots really faded from memory, that quickly? Is systematic racism really that important to so many people? I really don't know.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on October 07, 2020, 01:51:04 PM
But the polls among undecided voters who watched the debates showed the opposite, most starkly the Telemundo poll that was 2:1 in favor of Trump.

I'd like to see your source for that.  Undecided voters are a relatively small pool of voters in 2020. 

Five Thirty Eight (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-biden-debate-poll/) partnered with Ipsos to score the debate.  Trump's unfavorable rating rose 2% after the debate and his favorable rating dropped for a post-debate shift of -26%.  Biden gained in favorability and reduced his unfavorable rating from a +2% to a +7%.  In terms of debate performance, 2/3 of those polled gave Trump poor marks; 1/3 favorable.  60% gave Biden good marks to 40% poor. 

Anecdotally, among the people that I know that like Trump, none thought the debate was catching him in a good light.  Among Republican strategists, the common refrain is that Trump should have given Biden enough rope to hang himself - the interruptions actually served as a lifeline to rescue him from a difficult question.  And it turns out that the Left does not obey Trump's commands... 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on October 07, 2020, 02:22:54 PM
But the polls among undecided voters who watched the debates showed the opposite, most starkly the Telemundo poll that was 2:1 in favor of Trump.
I'd like to see your source for that.  Undecided voters are a relatively small pool of voters in 2020. 
I was mistaken, it wasn't undecided voters. It was Spanish-speaking Americans in general.
https://www.newsweek.com/66-percent-spanish-speaking-americans-telemundo-poll-think-trump-just-won-debate-1535176

And nobody's arguing that Trump came across great in the debate, just in comparison to the Democratic doormat.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 07, 2020, 04:03:48 PM
And nobody's arguing that Trump came across great in the debate, just in comparison to the Democratic doormat.
It seems like it was mostly a toss-up. On Fox News, what I mostly see it calling it a hot mess and a tie where neither looked great. They don't cite polls claiming a Trump victory. At most, they quote Trump's campaign staff calling it a Trump victory.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/first-presidential-debate-who-won-style-substance-doug-schoen
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/presidential-debate-winner-trump-liz-peek
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2020-elections-october-surprises-john-fund
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on October 07, 2020, 04:32:04 PM
Not exactly an impartial source, but Vox summarized some results.
https://www.vox.com/2020/9/30/21494864/who-won-debate-trump-biden-polls
Quote from: CBS survey of respondents in battleground states
Overall, 48 percent said Biden won the debate, while 41 percent said Trump won, and 10 percent said it was a tie. As CBS elections and survey director Anthony Salvanto pointed out on air, this was pretty close to the support for each candidate going in.
Which is almost the definition of a wash. Results are more tilted when it comes to impressions:
Quote from: Same
Kabir Khanna of the CBS News Election and Survey Unit also points out that 42 percent of debate watchers said they thought worse of Trump afterward, and 24 percent said they thought better of him. In contrast, 32 percent said they thought worse of Biden, while 38 percent thought better of him.
Quote
CNN and SSRS also conducted an instant poll of debate watchers, and they found a more lopsided margin in Biden’s favor. Sixty percent of their respondents thought Biden won, while 28 percent thought Trump won.
I looked at that poll, their audience skews Democratic so there's an inherent bias.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on October 07, 2020, 05:25:44 PM
Wow. Watching Pat and deadDMwalking spread FUD for Biden and the Democrat Party is like watching the theater audience clap for Tinkerbell to not die.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on October 07, 2020, 05:58:06 PM
Wow. Watching Pat and deadDMwalking spread FUD for Biden and the Democrat Party is like watching the theater audience clap for Tinkerbell to not die.
As usual, you're a fucking idiot who can't even read. I was questioning the narrative that Biden won the debate.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Machaeus on October 07, 2020, 07:38:55 PM
Not sure how fond anyone here is of Tim Pool - I personally think he's about even on his hit/miss record - but I found this video today and I had so much catharsis.

"Mail in Voting BACKFIRES, Democrats Jump Ship In Panic As Mail Votes Get REJECTED In Large Numbers" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QEjlqPZwoA)

Also lol FuckYouTube put in a "Here's some context that'll frame the narrative the way we want it c:" marker above the title.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on October 07, 2020, 11:31:29 PM
Not sure how fond anyone here is of Tim Pool - I personally think he's about even on his hit/miss record - but I found this video today and I had so much catharsis.

"Mail in Voting BACKFIRES, Democrats Jump Ship In Panic As Mail Votes Get REJECTED In Large Numbers" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QEjlqPZwoA)

Also lol FuckYouTube put in a "Here's some context that'll frame the narrative the way we want it c:" marker above the title.
I enjoy watching Tim. He's okay, but a bit on the delusional side if he thinks anyone doesn't get he's a classical conservative and not a former-'berniebro'. lol I first saw him on Joe Rogan some years back. Let's see now, my playlist is something like: Tim Pool, X22Report, and MrObvious. Of course, there's always Mr. Jones who seems to get his show on YTube through other people 'stealthing' it in. Pure comedy! xD Also, I watch any videos about the streamers. ANY. I consider it all to be FUD to some extent. Like any broadcast news stuff. Just be careful and take loads of grains of salt. Of course, the 302s are being released... good reads those - if you like black bars protecting the villains.
/conspira-rant
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on October 08, 2020, 01:34:23 AM
Wow. Watching Pat and deadDMwalking spread FUD for Biden and the Democrat Party is like watching the theater audience clap for Tinkerbell to not die.
As usual, you're a fucking idiot who can't even read. I was questioning the narrative that Biden won the debate.

Clap louder for Tinkerbell,. Pat!!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 08, 2020, 08:26:56 AM
To those of you who seem to think Gropey Joe is the answer to our prayers:

Sell me.

No, seriously. Put your salesman cap on and show me why this barely-cognizant zombie should get my vote. Particularly with the Democrat platform planks of 'repeal 2nd Amendment' and 'punish self defense'.

Trump hasn't been perfect -- hell, I snort at people who insist he's the BEST PRESIDENT EVAR -- but for a guy who keeps getting painted as 'the theoretical child of Sauron and Cruella deVille' (to quote OotS), he's not bad and he's hardly the monster people want him to be.

A shame. Part of me almost wishes he WAS that monster.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on October 08, 2020, 10:30:06 AM
Clap louder for Tinkerbell,. Pat!!
You're a fucking idiot.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on October 09, 2020, 02:02:43 PM
Once you turn over the voter fraud rock, it seems the critters just up the ante...

https://bongino.com/texas-candidate-for-mayor-arrested-on-109-counts-of-voting-fraud/?fbclid=IwAR3OFNzZEozNW-2ifOHtFi-DUxPgVrXEZeLLYz4iFYpBKwX6TxXm3N2D4Eg
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 12, 2020, 08:08:15 AM
Once you turn over the voter fraud rock, it seems the critters just up the ante...

https://bongino.com/texas-candidate-for-mayor-arrested-on-109-counts-of-voting-fraud/?fbclid=IwAR3OFNzZEozNW-2ifOHtFi-DUxPgVrXEZeLLYz4iFYpBKwX6TxXm3N2D4Eg
Don't worry, someone will be along shortly to state that Mr. Bongino has it all wrong and that he's not trustworthy. /sarc

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on October 12, 2020, 10:58:15 AM
Once you turn over the voter fraud rock, it seems the critters just up the ante...

https://bongino.com/texas-candidate-for-mayor-arrested-on-109-counts-of-voting-fraud/?fbclid=IwAR3OFNzZEozNW-2ifOHtFi-DUxPgVrXEZeLLYz4iFYpBKwX6TxXm3N2D4Eg
Don't worry, someone will be along shortly to state that Mr. Bongino has it all wrong and that he's not trustworthy. /sarc

Obviously. They mayoral candidate has a foreign-sounding name, so he's clearly not guilty. And it's OK because they do it all the time in his native culture. And the Republicans are doing the same. And it's a Russian scam.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on October 12, 2020, 02:03:23 PM
Greetings!

The Dan Bongino program is awesome! I regularly listen to the Dan Bongino program. Bongino is an experienced federal agent--he was in the Secret Service and before that had an extensive career with the New York Police Department. Bongino's analysis on politics and current events is generally far more valuable, insightful, accurate, and trustworthy than the majority of academics, politicians, and worthless fucking journalists out there in our society. He's a great guy. Straight shooting, and genuine. Bongino is intelligent and provides a lot of common sense, sharp analysis, and embraces excellent values. I highly recommend tuning in to the Dan Bongino program. I typically watch his program on You Tube.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on October 13, 2020, 10:58:56 AM
https://www.ac2news.com/2020/10/nearly-50000-voters-received-wrong-ballots-in-ohio/?fbclid=IwAR2I4LtvliRJNOgacRS6lkJXd7a7nyBG75FPTTzsqhXAsPw5z1vqOtu_fUk
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: crkrueger on October 13, 2020, 02:33:25 PM
https://www.ac2news.com/2020/10/nearly-50000-voters-received-wrong-ballots-in-ohio/?fbclid=IwAR2I4LtvliRJNOgacRS6lkJXd7a7nyBG75FPTTzsqhXAsPw5z1vqOtu_fUk

At this point, it almost seems like someone is purposely trying to cause enough Chaos to invalidate the election, no matter who wins.

1. Give people a week to vote, with one guaranteed paid day off to any worker during that time.
2. Voter ID system, with the gov’t paying for it.
3. In-person voting with paper ballots only, or solicited mail ballots through an application process, provided voter rolls are proven accurate.
4. Official party and neutral 3rd party auditors.
5. LEO security of ballots.

What we have now is a fucking return to Boss Tweed days.  “Vote Early!, Vote Often!”

It’s a national disgrace.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RPGPundit on October 13, 2020, 06:55:14 PM
I live in a 3rd world country, where voting is obligatory, and voter ID is required. It's seriously absurd to think that the United States couldn't have Voter ID work.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on October 13, 2020, 07:17:30 PM
Voter ID is waaaaaaaaaycist!!!



It's quite obvious that any black Americans in Harlem who believe they actually have ID or know how to get an ID are suffering from delusions caused by the constant oppression from white supremacy.

There is literally no other explanation for this video.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Luca on October 14, 2020, 01:05:04 PM
I've to admit it's a mistery to me how in the USA the simple concept of "you need to be able to prove your identity to a police officer" is seen as somehow an attack of personal freedom.
In Italy, you're supposed to carry either the ID card or the driving license or the passport (all 3 are valid for identification purposes) on you at all times. So, of course, that also stands when you get to vote.

In fact, in Italy to vote you need both a way to prove your identity AND a second piece of paper called an "electoral certificate". This is basically a piece of paper with some data and a bunch of spaces in it, and every time you vote one of the squares gets stamped with a governmental rubber stamp. Once all the spaces are filled, you need to get yourself a new certificate. The certificate is issued by your municipality on request and basically proves you've the right to vote (which could be revoked for e.g. some types of felonies).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on October 14, 2020, 01:33:57 PM
At this point the democrats are begging for a Starship Troopers (book) type voting thanks to all the chaos they are trying to sow.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on October 14, 2020, 07:13:38 PM
So...Twatter suspended the account of the New York Post for exposing Biden's lies regarding the Ukraine debacle and Hunter's ties. Of course, Farcebook is making the story disappear as well.

What happens next might be quite interesting.

Back in the day, the NY Post was known for its tough, working class attitude and its "tabloid with facts" approach. I have no idea if anyone at TNYP has a nutsack anymore, but California's soycial media clowns may have fucked with the wrong people this time.

If America wants a future, we need the tech giants imprisoned.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on October 14, 2020, 07:39:06 PM
I've to admit it's a mistery to me how in the USA the simple concept of "you need to be able to prove your identity to a police officer" is seen as somehow an attack of personal freedom.

Luca, nobody's gonna argue against Italians doing food and voter ID better than the USA.

It's two areas we could definitely improve.

In the USA, personal freedom is extremely important so carrying ID 24/7 would be considered onerous by many, even though most of us do. However, the anti-voter ID attitude is heavily coming from Democrat politicians, not even that loudly from actual Democrat voters. As that Harlem video I posted above showed, black Americans think its weird and ignorant that white liberals believe that owning ID, getting ID or using the internet are beyond the ken of black people.

In fact, black Americans have repeatedly made it clear their concern is LONG LINES when voting, not whether they need to show their driver's license. If you had two lines almost anywhere in the USA, one for no ID and one for ID and the ID line was half the wait, 99% of everyone would go into the ID line.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on October 14, 2020, 08:17:03 PM
It may sound like a joke or hyperbole, but this just happened, due to one statement by Judge Amy Coney Barrett (a phrase also previously used by Biden BTW)

(https://media.kotakuinaction2.win/post/dffIWqbD.jpeg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on October 14, 2020, 08:17:20 PM
RE: voter ID, I have to show my drivers license to vote, so this is mostly a bunch of blustery nonsense. Never seen anyone ever complain about having to show ID, either, and I've voted in almost every election in person since I was just out of high school. The only people who bitch about it are DC bureaucrats trying to get votes from people who literally don't give a fuck. Seriously, it's always white Karen's so concerned with poor blacks/hispanics feeling "disenfranchised", while I never actually see those people say anything unless they think it might get them some free booze.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 14, 2020, 10:39:22 PM
It may sound like a joke or hyperbole, but this just happened, due to one statement by Judge Amy Coney Barrett (a phrase also previously used by Biden BTW)

(https://media.kotakuinaction2.win/post/dffIWqbD.jpeg)

ACB apologized today. I understand why she did it, she's got to walk a very thin tightrope to get through the interviews, but goddamn that was retarted.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on October 14, 2020, 11:38:23 PM
I guess there are some people that think that sex is not real and at the same time sexual preference is.

I wish people would just stuck to the Science.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on October 15, 2020, 10:47:24 AM
I guess there are some people that think that sex is not real and at the same time sexual preference is.

I wish people would just stuck to the Science.

But that requires work like reading and understanding -- it is so much easier to just be sciency for political reasons.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on October 15, 2020, 10:50:59 AM
I guess there are some people that think that sex is not real and at the same time sexual preference is.

I wish people would just stuck to the Science.

But that requires work like reading and understanding -- it is so much easier to just be sciency for political reasons.

Worse. Science is actively shunned by some people on the left now, because of colonialism or.....something.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on October 15, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
“Science” is a sexist cisheteronormative white supremacist tool used to suppress “other ways of knowing” to facilitate the oppression of mArGiNaLiZeD people.

Bigots.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 15, 2020, 05:40:19 PM
I live in a 3rd world country, where voting is obligatory, and voter ID is required. It's seriously absurd to think that the United States couldn't have Voter ID work.
I agree. It's perfectly possible for the U.S. to have a good voter ID system. As I understand it, voter ID works in Uruguay because they offer *free* birth certificate and voter ID to every citizen, and require all citizens to register and to vote. Largely because of this, they have a voter participation rate of 90%, compared to 55% in the U.S. They even have a system going that gets people valid ID from birth.

https://www.cartercenter.org/resources/pdfs/peace/democracy/des/voter-identification-requirements.pdf

I would favor a U.S. system that gets free ID into everyone's hands. Currently, ID is treated like a privilege - you have to pay to get it, and the onus is on the citizen to get their state ID. Thus, there is a small percentage of people who are valid citizens but have no valid ID. It's only a few percent, but in this day and age, just 1% can be an important shift in elections.

The recent state-based pushes for voter ID requirements are mostly requiring the current pay-to-get IDs. What I found enlightening was the many examples of people struggling to get valid ID in the Harvard Law School report on voter ID.

https://today.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/FullReportVoterIDJune20141.pdf


I'm not particularly endorsing Uruguay's required voting approach. However, if you're going to use it as an example, I think that system would almost certainly favor the Democrats. Generally speaking, the Republicans do better among men, whites, and the rich. The Democrats do better among women, non-whites, and the poor. Among these, the main group who vote less are the poor. Increased voter turnout to 90% would almost certainly favor Democrats.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: crkrueger on October 15, 2020, 06:09:59 PM
Voter ID is waaaaaaaaaycist!!!



It's quite obvious that any black Americans in Harlem who believe they actually have ID or know how to get an ID are suffering from delusions caused by the constant oppression from white supremacy.

There is literally no other explanation for this video.

There’s tons of racism in this video...all on display from the White liberals, as usual.  They think Black people are some feral tribesmen living in a third world hellhole.

1. A Black person with a job, has an ID.
2. A Black person without a job, who has some form of Gov’t assistance, has an ID.

The only people without ID’s are homeless or people so old they are outside the system and never got SS.

Voter ID is not an attempt to suppress the Black Vote, there’s other methods for that.
Voter ID is an attempt to suppress the Illegal Immigrant Vote, which should not exist to begin with.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: crkrueger on October 15, 2020, 06:15:06 PM
It may sound like a joke or hyperbole, but this just happened, due to one statement by Judge Amy Coney Barrett (a phrase also previously used by Biden BTW)

(https://media.kotakuinaction2.win/post/dffIWqbD.jpeg)

To be honest, Sexual Orientation should be used, it’s a more accurate term.

Still, though, the idea that dictionaries change literally in hours based on social media outcry’s due to political agendas is truly frightening.

No other possible way to describe it but Orwellian.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on October 15, 2020, 06:41:42 PM
Greetings!

All the crying about "Voter Suppression!" and hand-wringing about poor people being unable to get an ID...

Whaa! Whaa! It's fucking pathetic. I have had an ID all of my life. School ID, of course, and then at 16 the Driver's License. Later, I got the Military ID and a State ID card.

I always carry *two* forms of valid ID with me, at all times, everywhere. I have the State ID and a Driver's License.

Driver's Licenses and State ID's are not expensive or too burdensome. It takes an hour of time, and $50 bucks to get both forms of ID or less. All of the whining is just laziness and looking for excuses and something else to blame white people for...something. More stupid nonsense "Oppression!" These people can REEE the fuck off.

Get a valid form of ID, walk their stupid asses down to a local church, senior citizen center, school, or some government office, as appropriate, and fucking VOTE. It isn't rocket science, a fucking 10 year old child can comprehend how to get this shit done.

The fact that we have adults hopping around in newspaper articles and TV interviews crying about voter suppression and people being unable to get a goddamned ID is malignant and fucking stupid. These morons are frauds and fucking demagogues.

Goddamn these people need to grow the fuck up!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Machaeus on October 15, 2020, 07:06:31 PM
^ This guy gets it.

I wish I had more to add, but sometimes, people just take the words right out of your mouth.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on October 15, 2020, 11:43:06 PM
Greetings!

All the crying about "Voter Suppression!" and hand-wringing about poor people being unable to get an ID...

Whaa! Whaa! It's fucking pathetic. I have had an ID all of my life. School ID, of course, and then at 16 the Driver's License. Later, I got the Military ID and a State ID card.

I always carry *two* forms of valid ID with me, at all times, everywhere. I have the State ID and a Driver's License.

Driver's Licenses and State ID's are not expensive or too burdensome. It takes an hour of time, and $50 bucks to get both forms of ID or less. All of the whining is just laziness and looking for excuses and something else to blame white people for...something. More stupid nonsense "Oppression!" These people can REEE the fuck off.

Get a valid form of ID, walk their stupid asses down to a local church, senior citizen center, school, or some government office, as appropriate, and fucking VOTE. It isn't rocket science, a fucking 10 year old child can comprehend how to get this shit done.

The fact that we have adults hopping around in newspaper articles and TV interviews crying about voter suppression and people being unable to get a goddamned ID is malignant and fucking stupid. These morons are frauds and fucking demagogues.

Goddamn these people need to grow the fuck up!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I agree. I came to America a few years back. It didn't take that long to get a valid ID. I think they're handling black people like children or something.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kiero on October 16, 2020, 03:50:04 AM
What great lengths will your US media outlets go to pretend the revelations about Hunter Biden aren't happening today?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 16, 2020, 05:06:21 AM
At this point, it almost seems like someone is purposely trying to cause enough Chaos to invalidate the election, no matter who wins.

1. Give people a week to vote, with one guaranteed paid day off to any worker during that time.
2. Voter ID system, with the gov’t paying for it.
3. In-person voting with paper ballots only, or solicited mail ballots through an application process, provided voter rolls are proven accurate.
4. Official party and neutral 3rd party auditors.
5. LEO security of ballots.
I'm good with all of these. But I think #4 is crucial -- the first step should be to investigate. We need to find those responsible for voter fraud, and understand the extent of the problem. We shouldn't blindly create new laws and systems without thorough investigation. If there is widespread fraud, then we should catch and prosecute those responsible.

As an addition regarding the census -- it would be reasonable to amend the Constitution to dispense with the census, and instead allocate seats based on the number of registered voters rather than the population. (This would be a change that hurts Democrats.)


The only people without ID’s are homeless or people so old they are outside the system and never got SS.

Voter ID is not an attempt to suppress the Black Vote, there’s other methods for that.
Voter ID is an attempt to suppress the Illegal Immigrant Vote, which should not exist to begin with.
There are many people who have a Social Security Number, but do not have a valid _photo_ ID. (Social Security cards are not photo ID.) Estimates vary, but even critics accept that there are at least 1% of registered voters who don't have a valid photo ID. The simplest cases are young people (especially 18-24) who do not yet have a driver's license. There are also many people (especially among the elderly) who previously had a driver's license, but it has expired.

I would agree that support for state-based voter ID laws are motivated primarily by claims of illegal immigrant votes or other fraud. Studies conflict over what effect they actually have, though. Some studies claim suppressed voter turnout, but others find no such effect on voter turnout. Here's a recent analysis for no visible effect, for example:

http://stanford.edu/~jgrimmer/comment_final.pdf

Conversely, though, there hasn't been demonstrated any significant effect of illegal immigrant vote suppression. Hence, I think there should be more data collection and investigation.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on October 16, 2020, 09:07:49 AM
If someone doesn't have a valid photo ID, then they should probably get one because it's hard to do a lot of things without it. You can't even get a library card here without an ID, so that 1% can fuck off for all I care. Instead of buying monster energy drinks and lottery tickets, save up the $15 for a fucking ID.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RandyB on October 16, 2020, 10:53:55 AM
What great lengths will your US media outlets go to pretend the revelations about Hunter Biden aren't happening today?

The Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube are committing hari kiri to keep anything related to this off of their platforms.

What is it about this particular issue that they are willing to make this the hill they die on?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Steven Mitchell on October 16, 2020, 12:43:09 PM
What great lengths will your US media outlets go to pretend the revelations about Hunter Biden aren't happening today?

The Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube are committing hari kiri to keep anything related to this off of their platforms.

What is it about this particular issue that they are willing to make this the hill they die on?

Test run for election day when they will be shutting down even more users.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 16, 2020, 04:09:35 PM
What great lengths will your US media outlets go to pretend the revelations about Hunter Biden aren't happening today?
The Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube are committing hari kiri to keep anything related to this off of their platforms.

What is it about this particular issue that they are willing to make this the hill they die on?
Huh. So Trump shared a Babylon Bee article describing what was happening.

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/121464494_10158692337493236_5064541145230044510_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=YMEsCRX2QWUAX-Jlftd&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=33374e657508359ef2a415129bc0a6ab&oe=5FB137C3)

Source: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1317044556328730625

Here's the Babylon Bee article:

Quote
In a last-ditch effort to stop negative stories about Joe Biden and his family from spreading, Twitter shut down its entire social network Thursday.

After seeing account after account tweet out one particularly bad story, CEO Jack Dorsey realized he had to take action. Dorsey smashed a glass box in his office reading "Break In Case Of Bad Publicity For Democrats." Inside the case was a sledgehammer for smashing Twitter's servers.

"Red alert -- shut the servers down! Shut them all down!"

Dorsey ran downstairs and started smashing as many computers as he could, but he did need to ask for some help, as the hammer was pretty heavy.

I don't expect much, but it's kind of amazing that Trump himself would share this blatant parody.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on October 16, 2020, 04:19:21 PM
Yeah, parody.

 ???
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on October 16, 2020, 04:58:57 PM
I don't expect much, but it's kind of amazing that Trump himself would share this blatant parody.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bXgULtz6cI
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/hunter-biden-business-associate-flips-prison-releases-emails-detailing-china-influence

Yep, 100% parody.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on October 16, 2020, 05:05:07 PM

I don't expect much, but it's kind of amazing that Trump himself would share this blatant parody.

I think the proper term is 'satire' not 'parody'...
 
...and I am guessing maybe he found it funny and wanted to share the humor with his followers?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 17, 2020, 03:05:42 PM

I don't expect much, but it's kind of amazing that Trump himself would share this blatant parody.

I think the proper term is 'satire' not 'parody'...
 
...and I am guessing maybe he found it funny and wanted to share the humor with his followers?
He's been known to share things he finds humorous before. The only problem is that the left then loses their minds (well, more so than normal). He shared that gif of himself on WWE slamming some dude (with a CNN logo superimposed over his face) and the left went all out to dox the guy who made the gif. Classy.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on October 17, 2020, 10:14:12 PM
Remember black Americans, if you step out of line, the left will punch the teeth out of your mouth because they're the "Party of Science and Tolerance".

https://twitter.com/TeamSaveAmerica/status/1317549194119245824 (https://twitter.com/TeamSaveAmerica/status/1317549194119245824)

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on October 17, 2020, 10:21:18 PM
The Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube are committing hari kiri to keep anything related to this off of their platforms.

What is it about this particular issue that they are willing to make this the hill they die on?

There's no hari kari or hill dying...unfortunately.

If Harris/Biden wins, they will be rewarded.

If Trump wins, he didn't smash them for 4 years so it's doubtful anything will happen in the next 4 years, especially considering Bill Barr is about as useful as Droopy Dawg. I'd like to be wrong, but Trump's only focus will be the economy and judges and the AG will sit on his ass while the FBI continues to hinder justice.

I can't see the RINOs that make up the vast majority of Republicans in Congress raising a finger to stop Big Tech, let alone drain the swamp. They don't even care if Trump wins because they'd rather sit back and collect a salary under Biden while reclaiming "their party" from Trump's deplorables.

But Ted Cruz will definitely talk real tough about tech censorship on his podcast.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on October 17, 2020, 10:31:43 PM
Spinachcat, as usual your analysis looks good. It doesn't matter who the AG is, Trump has had 2 do nothings so far. The whole institution seems corrupt and tied to the two-tier justice system.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 18, 2020, 07:50:58 PM
I don't expect much, but it's kind of amazing that Trump himself would share this blatant parody.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bXgULtz6cI
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/hunter-biden-business-associate-flips-prison-releases-emails-detailing-china-influence

Yep, 100% parody.

I don't get it. The point is that The Babylon Bee article that Trump linked is a parody. It is blatantly so. Are you trying to claim that The Babylon Bee article is *not* parody? The Babylon Bee openly declares itself to be a satire site, and the article Trump linked described the Twitter CEO smashing servers with a sledgehammer.

I'm not making any claim about Hunter Biden, just that The Babylon Bee article is satire. (And apologies if I'm misusing satire vs parody - the point is that it's humorous false content.)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Melichor on October 18, 2020, 10:01:35 PM
I don't get it. The point is that The Babylon Bee article that Trump linked is a parody. It is blatantly so. Are you trying to claim that The Babylon Bee article is *not* parody? The Babylon Bee openly declares itself to be a satire site, and the article Trump linked described the Twitter CEO smashing servers with a sledgehammer.

I'm not making any claim about Hunter Biden, just that The Babylon Bee article is satire. (And apologies if I'm misusing satire vs parody - the point is that it's humorous false content.)

There really isn't anything to get.
The people without TDS see Trump trolling the left, again.
The people with TDS think Trump really believes it, and tweeted it because Trump is ignorant and stupid.

As much as you want him to be ignorant and stupid, Trump is neither. He's an arrogant asshole and he lives in the heads of Elitist idiots.
It's big reason why mainstream Americans are supporting him. You know, all the people that are tired of the condescension, the name-calling, and the social engineering designed to eradicate the traditions and values they hold.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 18, 2020, 11:17:37 PM
I'm not making any claim about Hunter Biden, just that The Babylon Bee article is satire. (And apologies if I'm misusing satire vs parody - the point is that it's humorous false content.)

The point of Babylon Bee is that they exaggerate real news and trends. It wouldn't be funny if it didn't contain an element of truth.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 18, 2020, 11:45:08 PM
I'm not making any claim about Hunter Biden, just that The Babylon Bee article is satire. (And apologies if I'm misusing satire vs parody - the point is that it's humorous false content.)
There really isn't anything to get.
The people without TDS see Trump trolling the left, again.
The people with TDS think Trump really believes it, and tweeted it because Trump is ignorant and stupid.

As much as you want him to be ignorant and stupid, Trump is neither. He's an arrogant asshole and he lives in the heads of Elitist idiots.
It's big reason why mainstream Americans are supporting him. You know, all the people that are tired of the condescension, the name-calling, and the social engineering designed to eradicate the traditions and values they hold.
From my perspective, being an Internet troll isn't particularly better than being ignorant and stupid.

Personally, I've voted against him, but I don't think he's literally Hitler. In some ways, he's been better than George W. Bush -- notably in not getting us into new foreign wars. But his Twitter stream frequently makes me feel embarrassed as an American. I don't care if he's trolling or not - it's bad either way.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on October 19, 2020, 12:40:11 AM
The reason Trump tweeted the Babylon Bee story is because the NY Post story was being shut down by Our Lords & Masters in Silicon Valley.

However, as the Babylon Bee story satirized the Twitter response to the NY Post, it gave Trump a way to get people informed about the situation, especially as he knows the TDS crowd would boost the signal...and thus effectively boost the alarm that Twitter was in the back pocket of Biden and censoring an important story.

Here's the fun part. This is what was waiting for everyone at the Babylon Bee:
https://babylonbee.com/news/you-should-absolutely-not-read-the-disgusting-totally-false-story-about-joe-bidens-son-that-were-linking-in-this-article (https://babylonbee.com/news/you-should-absolutely-not-read-the-disgusting-totally-false-story-about-joe-bidens-son-that-were-linking-in-this-article)

And this one too.
https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-shares-babylon-bee-article-thousands-accept-jesus-into-their-hearts (https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-shares-babylon-bee-article-thousands-accept-jesus-into-their-hearts)

I'm not a big believer in Trump's 4D chess, but this was a sharp maneuver to evade social media censors.

Also, it drove tremendous traffic to the Babylon Bee which somehow manages to be Christian AND funny. It's got that same edge as Mad magazine and the Onion, and isn't afraid to make jokes about both Trump and Christians.

And humor is dangerous.

It's especially dangerous when people start wondering why would the Orange Monster ever link to a site that makes fun of him regularly?


But his Twitter stream frequently makes me feel embarrassed as an American.

Who are you kidding? Leftists aren't Americans.

2020 was the year your masks fell off.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on October 19, 2020, 01:08:13 AM
Wait your voting against Trump who made peace deal and never went to war because of his tweets?  THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU JHKIM?  Are you fucking that shallow?

Jhkim: "Yeah I like the fact Trump never went to war and TRIED to pull troops out of the middle east, but he is so rude...  Those tweets are horrible.  I might as well send more young people off to die because at least I get to look good."

That is what you sound like right now jhkim.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 19, 2020, 01:28:53 AM
Personally, I've voted against him, but I don't think he's literally Hitler. In some ways, he's been better than George W. Bush -- notably in not getting us into new foreign wars. But his Twitter stream frequently makes me feel embarrassed as an American. I don't care if he's trolling or not - it's bad either way.

I'm embarassed by the Democrats, Biden and Harris. Biden is a senile codger who is so out of touch, he thought "If you don't vote for me, you're not black!" would be an appropriate thing to say, joke or not.
And Harris is a slimeball. She accused Biden of racism and sexism and then put her knives away when offered to be his Veep.

This is the best the Democrat party could muster to run aqainst Trump. It's pathetic.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 19, 2020, 02:09:42 AM
Wait your voting against Trump who made peace deal and never went to war because of his tweets?  THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU JHKIM?  Are you fucking that shallow?

Jhkim: "Yeah I like the fact Trump never went to war and TRIED to pull troops out of the middle east, but he is so rude...  Those tweets are horrible.  I might as well send more young people off to die because at least I get to look good."

That is what you sound like right now jhkim.
Please calm the fuck down, Snowman0147.

I said that I didn't vote for him, and I said that I disliked his tweets. That doesn't mean that I didn't vote for him *because* of his tweets. His tweets were the topic under discussion.

Generally speaking, I'm a strong social liberal, a pro-individual-rights federalist, a pro-nuclear environmentalist, an economic moderate, and a mostly non-military-interventionist in foreign affairs. That generally puts me in the Democrat camp, even though there are issues I disagree with them on.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on October 19, 2020, 02:27:00 AM
No it doesn't.  That sounds like your mostly Republican in these days and that is how much the Democrats went nuts.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on October 19, 2020, 03:38:39 AM
I'm embarassed by the Democrats, Biden and Harris.

Why? It's not like they've hidden who and what they are.

There is no Biden. He's the placeholder for Harris and she's the placeholder for those pulling the strings to ensure a socialist breakdown of America.

And more importantly, that's what Biden/Harris voters want. They're not "innocent and confused"! They're not "fellow citizens with different ideas". They want Biden and Harris because they know both are malleable and not going to stand in the way of the real plan. Of course, the Biden/Harris sheeple have no clue that the socialism they're clamoring for isn't utopia. As the 20th century showed us with 100 million corpses, the reality is quite the opposite.   

There is no "the Democrats" anymore. This isn't the party of FDR or JFK or even Bill Clinton. They are the Socialist Party now, loud and proud, and identity politics is their weapon of choice because it works so well.

I'm not joking about 2020 as the year the masks have fallen off.

We are staring into the face of communist oblivion, whether its grandpa Biden, laffy laugh Harris, the unhinged violence of Burn Loot Murder or the oh-so-moderate sounding words of Bay Area limousine liberals.

This election isn't some white glove university debate where the winner gets to choose the tea. The "Democrats" are here to crumble America. Don't think so? Why would you NOT crumble a nation that's 100% racist, sexist, homophobic and evil? In fact, it's their moral duty!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 19, 2020, 04:28:39 AM
No it doesn't.  That sounds like your mostly Republican in these days and that is how much the Democrats went nuts.
I disagree, and I'm fine to debate it if you accept that it's not about the tweets (though they certainly don't help).

As far as going nuts, I think the public on both sides of the political spectrum have gone into insane levels of partisanship - where the other side are demons set upon destruction and hatred. I mostly blame social media for this one, but politicians and news media (left-leaning and right-leaning) are part of it as well.

The actual political differences aren't nearly the craziness that are described, though. I saw no signs of gulags or killing fields after eight years of Obama's presidency. I thought he was pretty moderate. Trump also hasn't been as extreme as he's portrayed, but there's still been plenty of negatives. Not getting into major wars was good, but his actions with Syria, Yemen, Iran, and Afghanistan have done little to improve the situation - though to be fair, all our recent presidents have made a hash of the Middle East. He's also pissed off essentially all of our traditional allies. He's been openly anti-environmental, promoting frickin coal while doing nothing about nuclear power.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on October 19, 2020, 05:39:32 AM
Who are you kidding? Leftists aren't Americans.

2020 was the year your masks fell off.
So in 2020, the ones not wearing masks are un-American Leftists? Well, that explains some things...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Steven Mitchell on October 19, 2020, 06:29:17 AM
I'm embarassed by the Democrats, Biden and Harris. Biden is a senile codger who is so out of touch, he thought "If you don't vote for me, you're not black!" would be an appropriate thing to say, joke or not.
And Harris is a slimeball. She accused Biden of racism and sexism and then put her knives away when offered to be his Veep.

This is the best the Democrat party could muster to run aqainst Trump. It's pathetic.

In the past, I was embarrassed for the democrats.  You know, the same way you feel embarrassment for anyone saying something so stupid that everyone in the room has to avert their eyes, but the speaker can't even pick up on that.  Now, it's more like what you ended with.  The left is no longer American in any meaningful sense of the word.  They deserve mockery and shunning and are rapidly moving into territory of a more serious nature in the question of what they deserve.  The remaining normal people voting Democrat are pitiful. 

My favorite line this election from a classical liberal who wasn't exactly red-pilled but close enough for this election:  "I will never forgive the Democrats for making me vote for Trump."  :)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on October 19, 2020, 09:43:45 AM
Generally speaking, I'm a strong social liberal, a pro-individual-rights federalist, a pro-nuclear environmentalist, an economic moderate, and a mostly non-military-interventionist in foreign affairs. That generally puts me in the Democrat camp, even though there are issues I disagree with them on.

This is like the exact opposite of the current Democrat party...are you fucking dense?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 19, 2020, 10:15:37 AM
Generally speaking, I'm a strong social liberal, a pro-individual-rights federalist, a pro-nuclear environmentalist, an economic moderate, and a mostly non-military-interventionist in foreign affairs. That generally puts me in the Democrat camp, even though there are issues I disagree with them on.

This is like the exact opposite of the current Democrat party...are you fucking dense?
I have to admit, I did a double-take as well. Particularly in regards to individual rights and nuclear power.

We've seen the contempt the left has for not just the 2nd Amendment, but the First as well.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on October 19, 2020, 10:42:26 AM
Also, it drove tremendous traffic to the Babylon Bee which somehow manages to be Christian AND funny. It's got that same edge as Mad magazine and the Onion, and isn't afraid to make jokes about both Trump and Christians.

Probably the best one of theirs I saw recently:  https://babylonbee.com/news/close-call-this-christian-radio-dj-accidentally-played-the-same-song-for-3-weeks-straight-but-luckily-no-one-noticed (https://babylonbee.com/news/close-call-this-christian-radio-dj-accidentally-played-the-same-song-for-3-weeks-straight-but-luckily-no-one-noticed)

Just reminds me so much of the music I used to hear at my buddy's Unitarian church back in the 90's.

JHKim is totally a Republican.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Delete_me on October 19, 2020, 10:50:34 AM
This is like the exact opposite of the current Democrat party...are you fucking dense?

Quote from: The Democratic Party Platform, pg. 51, 2020
...our technology-neutral approach is inclusive of all zero-carbon technologies, including hydroelectric power, geothermal, existing and advanced nuclear, and carbon capture and storage.

Quote from:  pg 90, 2020
...it’s past time, however, to rebalance our tools,engagement, and relationships in the Middle East away from military intervention—leading with pragmatic diplomacy to lay the groundwork for a more peaceful, stable, and free region.

Or maybe you're so far up your own media you've lost all ability to see nuance? Stop believing your own boogeyman stories and start actually being Conservative.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on October 19, 2020, 02:03:16 PM
Or maybe you're so far up your own media you've lost all ability to see nuance? Stop believing your own boogeyman stories and start actually being Conservative.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/368581-california-approves-closure-of-last-nuclear-power-plant

LOL

Maybe get a fucking clue..?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 19, 2020, 02:43:23 PM
Or maybe you're so far up your own media you've lost all ability to see nuance? Stop believing your own boogeyman stories and start actually being Conservative.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/368581-california-approves-closure-of-last-nuclear-power-plant

LOL

Maybe get a fucking clue..?
I agree that California and most Democrats are biased against nuclear power. But the Republican party and Republican-dominated states are no better with nuclear power, and they have the bonus of promoting fossil fuels. Trump in particular has been promoting coal power.

There have been some bipartisan efforts that have quietly paved the way for more nuclear power under Obama and under Trump, but they're faltering mostly under public opinion on nuclear power which is increasingly negative.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on October 19, 2020, 04:24:00 PM
Trump in particular has been promoting coal power.

Could you provide a source for this?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Delete_me on October 19, 2020, 04:38:36 PM
Maybe get a fucking clue..?

I'd ask you to figure out what nuance means first, but nobody cares if you do.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on October 19, 2020, 05:30:08 PM
Trump has been protecting coal miners so they can keep their jobs and put food on the table for their families.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on October 19, 2020, 05:55:43 PM
I'd ask you to figure out what nuance means first, but nobody cares if you do.

What's it like to be proven demonstrably wrong, and yet claim you're right?

"Nuance" - a weaselly lawyer word to avoid perjury.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Delete_me on October 19, 2020, 06:07:39 PM
I'm not in the habit of answering self-reflective rhetorical questions someone else asks, so I'll wait for you to answer yourself.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 19, 2020, 07:17:27 PM
Trump in particular has been promoting coal power.
Could you provide a source for this?
Sure.

From whitehouse.gov,
Quote
LETTING COAL COUNTRY WORK AGAIN: Today, President Donald J. Trump signed legislation (House Joint Resolution 38) to stop the costly “Stream Protection Rule” from further harming coal workers and the communities that depend on them.
Source: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-trump-putting-coal-country-back-work/

From Fox News,
Quote
President Trump had promised to do everything he could to lift the coal mining industry. Trump began to make good on his pledge last month when he eliminated the Stream Protection Rule, which had placed layers of regulations on the industry.
Source: https://www.foxnews.com/us/coal-mining-begins-seeing-revival-as-trump-gives-industry-hope


Trump has been protecting coal miners so they can keep their jobs and put food on the table for their families.
The only reason why coal can be profitable is because they are allowed to dump poisons into the environment without repercussion - while nuclear and other industries are held to much stricter regulation. The pollution caused by coal has clearly proven negative effects on the workers as well as everyone else, costing thousands of lives every year. That's a clear network externality. Government needs to regulate, or coal can continue to profit by shitting on everyone else. It's foolish and harmful to prop it up.

I'm all for helping former miners find other work, but poisoning everyone so they can keep doing the job they used to is not a positive for the nation.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on October 19, 2020, 07:29:03 PM
He's been openly anti-environmental, promoting frickin coal while doing nothing about nuclear power.

I know that many people do not like Michael Moore and sure he looks like the archetypal old fat racist white man and on the other hand his movie Planet of the Humans makes some interesting points regarding "Green" energy.

And of course you have the rolling blackouts in California.

But yeah frickin coal, am I right?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on October 19, 2020, 07:49:43 PM
I'd ask you to figure out what nuance means first, but nobody cares if you do.

What's it like to be proven demonstrably wrong, and yet claim you're right?

"Nuance" - a weaselly lawyer word to avoid perjury.

You need to start being “actually conservative”, Brad!  Just like all those Acela Repubs. 

Conservatism is about oligarchy, becoming a service economy, imperialism, and globalism.  All while preferring to unilaterally hold to the queensberry rules even if it means getting blown off the political battlefield by an opponent who does not.  The traditions our founding fathers fought for.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on October 19, 2020, 08:01:00 PM
I know that many people do not like Michael Moore and sure he looks like the archetypal old fat racist white man and on the other hand his movie Planet of the Humans makes some interesting points regarding "Green" energy.
I despise Moore, but Planet of the Humans sounds interesting. I might have to give it a watch.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on October 19, 2020, 11:55:07 PM
Everyone should always obey California.
https://babylonbee.com/news/state-with-no-electricity-orders-everyone-to-drive-cars-that-run-on-electricity (https://babylonbee.com/news/state-with-no-electricity-orders-everyone-to-drive-cars-that-run-on-electricity)

I despise Moore, but Planet of the Humans sounds interesting. I might have to give it a watch.

Utterly imperfect, but worth a watch.

My interest got piqued when the Climate Clowns demanded the movie be memory holed and Michael Moore cancelled. No surprise because while it fumbles constantly, it shatters the "green myth" of electric cars.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 20, 2020, 01:02:38 AM
The only reason why coal can be profitable is because they are allowed to dump poisons into the environment without repercussion - while nuclear and other industries are held to much stricter regulation. The pollution caused by coal has clearly proven negative effects on the workers as well as everyone else, costing thousands of lives every year. That's a clear network externality. Government needs to regulate, or coal can continue to profit by shitting on everyone else. It's foolish and harmful to prop it up.

I'm all for helping former miners find other work, but poisoning everyone so they can keep doing the job they used to is not a positive for the nation.

It sounds like your issue isn't with Trump supporting coal, or coal power, but the specific regulations (or lack therof) that exist now.

If you don't live near convenient hydroelectric power, hydrocarbon is the only viable alternative right now. Those electric cars need to pollute somehow to juice up their batteries.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on October 20, 2020, 04:04:52 AM

The only reason why coal can be profitable is because they are allowed to dump poisons into the environment without repercussion - while nuclear and other industries are held to much stricter regulation. The pollution caused by coal has clearly proven negative effects on the workers as well as everyone else, costing thousands of lives every year. That's a clear network externality. Government needs to regulate, or coal can continue to profit by shitting on everyone else. It's foolish and harmful to prop it up.

I'm all for helping former miners find other work, but poisoning everyone so they can keep doing the job they used to is not a positive for the nation.

OK, now you can justify your statement that coal can only be profitable if the industry is allowed to wantonly pollute. Let's see the supporting evidence.

Is Trump rolling back the ridiculous overregulation of the EPA? Yes, and a damn good thing it is.

I know you believe that Orange Man Bad, but he's still not a mustache twirling cartoon villain as you suggest.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 20, 2020, 08:22:45 AM
Guess those coal miners should just #learntocode amirite?

Oh wait, that didn't play well for the Democrats AT ALL, did it?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on October 20, 2020, 09:48:03 AM
You need to start being “actually conservative”, Brad!  Just like all those Acela Repubs. 

Conservatism is about oligarchy, becoming a service economy, imperialism, and globalism.  All while preferring to unilaterally hold to the queensberry rules even if it means getting blown off the political battlefield by an opponent who does not.  The traditions our founding fathers fought for.

Idealism is all fine and nice, but does fuck all during an actual war. Pontificating in ivory towers about shouldland is best left to the pseudo-intellectuals because they literally offer nothing valuable that's applicable to real life. I thank Thomas Sowell for making me feel better about having abject contempt for those morons.

Anyway, two more things...I voted this morning, didn't wear a fucking mask and I was the only one doing so. No one said a word, and some of the people looked at me like they wanted to take theirs off, so maybe this small act of defiance will encourage others not to let their rights be so easily trampled.

Further, modern coal-burning plants are some of the most sophisticated things ever created and are essentially carbon-neutral once you factor in all the mitigation protocols during the process. Just like modern diesel engines...which are FAR more environmentally friendly than electric, but you'll never hear a leftist utter such words as that would totally blow holes in their "climate change" agenda. If they're so concerned with the climate, why do they fly around in private jets and live in 10k sqft houses?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 22, 2020, 04:11:13 PM
The only reason why coal can be profitable is because they are allowed to dump poisons into the environment without repercussion - while nuclear and other industries are held to much stricter regulation. The pollution caused by coal has clearly proven negative effects on the workers as well as everyone else, costing thousands of lives every year. That's a clear network externality. Government needs to regulate, or coal can continue to profit by shitting on everyone else. It's foolish and harmful to prop it up.

I'm all for helping former miners find other work, but poisoning everyone so they can keep doing the job they used to is not a positive for the nation.
It sounds like your issue isn't with Trump supporting coal, or coal power, but the specific regulations (or lack therof) that exist now.

If you don't live near convenient hydroelectric power, hydrocarbon is the only viable alternative right now. Those electric cars need to pollute somehow to juice up their batteries.
Minor nitpick: Nuclear currently generates around 20% of U.S. power, along with 7% hydroelectric, 7% wind, and 2% solar. (source (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3)) Still, I agree that hydrocarbon is necessary and can't be avoided - but that doesn't mean that we should be actively promoting it - particularly coal which is the most polluting form.

Yes, I have a problem with the regulations - and Trump has been promoting coal power by weakening the regulations that exist around it, among other things. Trump supporters say that those regulations were pointless (like jeff37923) but in general I disagree. Coal is the most polluting of modern energy sources. It releases not just carbon dioxide, but also particulates, mercury, lead, and other contaminants into the atmosphere. Coal is responsible for about 40% of the mercury release in the U.S., for example. This study found that "between 2005 and 2016, the shutdown of coal-fired units saved an estimated 26,610 lives and 570 million bushels of corn, soybeans and wheat in their immediate vicinities". That's purely in local effects.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200106141445.htm

In general, air pollution has been improving in the U.S. - but it's still a huge cost that is born by the country and not the industries producing it.


Idealism is all fine and nice, but does fuck all during an actual war. Pontificating in ivory towers about shouldland is best left to the pseudo-intellectuals because they literally offer nothing valuable that's applicable to real life.
Except we're not at fucking war. America's problems today are not caused by assault from another country - they're overwhelmingly caused by ourselves. As a whole, our country has more material wealth than we have ever had - but lots of Americans are still miserable.

Intellectual pursuits like science and economics *do* apply to real life -- and turning against them has just made us more ignorant and miserable. Further, ideals like caring about truth, justice, equality, and our fellow human beings have measurable results in making use less miserable.


Further, modern coal-burning plants are some of the most sophisticated things ever created and are essentially carbon-neutral once you factor in all the mitigation protocols during the process. Just like modern diesel engines...which are FAR more environmentally friendly than electric, but you'll never hear a leftist utter such words as that would totally blow holes in their "climate change" agenda. If they're so concerned with the climate, why do they fly around in private jets and live in 10k sqft houses?
Source on this? All the scientific sources that I read are roughly in agreement. Modern coal might be cleaner than older coal plants, but they are still the most polluting source out there - of not just carbon dioxide, but also mercury, lead, and particulates. Here's one analysis, for example:

https://noharm-uscanada.org/sites/default/files/documents-files/828/Health_Effects_Coal_Use_Energy_Generation.pdf
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on October 23, 2020, 01:39:14 AM
Wait. I thought we were all going to be living in an ice age eating soylent green by 1997 unless we did something by 1977.... oh, that's right. Those scientists' predictions ere WRONG! As was needing to decrease the world population in order to feed the world - especially since arable land was going to be toxic by 1989. Oh, wait - I forgot, they said that in 1969. Wait. What about that planet roaster pipeline from Canada. That's right! By 2030 we'll all be living underwater or on Al Gore's Ark! Thank goodness! I really thought THE COAL was gonna DO US ALL IN FOR GOOD. *sigh*

Wat fud.

Sauce: https://www.foxnews.com/science/10-times-experts-predicted-the-world-would-end-by-now
(I remember all this when I went to school and they are SEVERELY UNDERPLAYING all this shite that was THE GOSPEL TRUTH ACCORDING TO SCIENCE! You know, those evil people whose maths are racist! And are either white, know someone white, wear white lab coats, or are fashists anyway!) :P

Update: I watched the debates... It was entertaining to say the least. I was very surprised with Joe Biden! He seemed very lucid tonight. Of course, I remember his run from 87, as well as Trump's.  An OSR election, or at least it would be if Biden's VP pick was Hubert Humphreys! lol... Here's a cool thing I found: https://youtu.be/_f2Z30j61aw This world is truly F**KED. lol
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 23, 2020, 03:46:51 AM
Sauce: https://www.foxnews.com/science/10-times-experts-predicted-the-world-would-end-by-now
(I remember all this when I went to school and they are SEVERELY UNDERPLAYING all this shite that was THE GOSPEL TRUTH ACCORDING TO SCIENCE! You know, those evil people whose maths are racist! And are either white, know someone white, wear white lab coats, or are fashists anyway!) :P

So there's a list that spans multiple decades by "experts" in a variety of fields ranging from metallurgy to climate, looking for predictions that were wrong. And what did they come up with:

#1: A verbal statement on global warming by Noel Brown, who has a PhD in International Relations and served as a director at the U.N.

#2: A pop-culture book on famine written by a PhD plant pathologist (William Paddock) and a veteran of the Foreign Service (Paul Paddock).

#3: Verbal quotes on global freezing from a professor with a PhD in Zoology (Ken Watt), and a physics B.A. and educator (Nigel Calder).

#4: Another verbal statement on global warming by Noel Brown from #1.

#5: There doesn’t appear to be any #5.

#6: Verbal statement by Al Gore, for his film. Gore has a B.A. in Government and of course a career as a politician.

#7: Vague verbal statement on environmental disaster by Mostafa Tolba, who was a PhD plant pathologist and U.N. administrator.

#8: Verbal statement on mass extinction from Gaylord Nelson, who was a lawyer and U.S. Senator who supported environmental causes including Earth Day.

#9: Publication in Scientific American by Harrison Brown, a prominent PhD nuclear geochemist.

#10: Not actually a prediction, but a verbal statement by climatologist Stephen Schneider about talking to the public in simplified terms - and a similar quote by Timothy Wirth, who has a PhD in Education and was a U.S. Senator.


The only one of these that comes close to being a scientific prediction is #9 about metallurgy, if it is true. None of the others are even from scientists working in their fields, let alone peer-reviewed publications. I haven't read the source for #9 yet - maybe it really is a bad prediction, though it might also be misinterpreted.

Scientists do really make mistakes from time to time - it's possible that this was a real blunder. But the track record of published, peer-reviewed science is *vastly* better than the statements of politicians, administrators, activists, YouTubers, and pundits. Even if #9 is genuine blunder, I don't see how that should change my view of science as a whole compared to other sources.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 23, 2020, 07:51:54 AM
You wanna talk about Michael Mann, jhkim?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on October 23, 2020, 09:24:07 AM
Except we're not at fucking war. America's problems today are not caused by assault from another country - they're overwhelmingly caused by ourselves. As a whole, our country has more material wealth than we have ever had - but lots of Americans are still miserable.

Intellectual pursuits like science and economics *do* apply to real life -- and turning against them has just made us more ignorant and miserable. Further, ideals like caring about truth, justice, equality, and our fellow human beings have measurable results in making use less miserable.

Thank you for fully proving my point. You are willfully ignorant of simple facts, like China actively trying to undermine our government and destroy the US from within, all while being "intellectually superior" due to a piece of paper. The reason people are ignorant and miserable is because they turned away from what really matters: family, God, and hard work.

Quote
Source on this? All the scientific sources that I read are roughly in agreement. Modern coal might be cleaner than older coal plants, but they are still the most polluting source out there - of not just carbon dioxide, but also mercury, lead, and particulates. Here's one analysis, for example:

https://noharm-uscanada.org/sites/default/files/documents-files/828/Health_Effects_Coal_Use_Energy_Generation.pdf

Why do "climate change scientists" fly around in jets to conferences all over the world? Why aren't people advocating for putting a stop to major sources of greenhouse gasses like volcanoes and the Amazon rain forest? How does paying higher taxes magically fix the weather?

Maybe you need to stop being such a fucktard.

Scientists do really make mistakes from time to time - it's possible that this was a real blunder. But the track record of published, peer-reviewed science is *vastly* better than the statements of politicians, administrators, activists, YouTubers, and pundits. Even if #9 is genuine blunder, I don't see how that should change my view of science as a whole compared to other sources.

Peer-reviewed science is total horseshit, sorry. It's agenda driven for the most part, and a lot of studies are based on falsified results. Your inability to even entertain the idea that "scientists" have any sort of personal stake in the outcome of their research is not only ridiculous but makes you look even more foolish than I thought possible. You are an actual moron.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: tenbones on October 23, 2020, 11:23:45 AM
Am I the only one around here that literally does not give a single shit about "Climate Change"?

I honestly don't. Every time someone brings it up, it turns into their doomsday apocalypse prophecy that literally NO ONE reading this can affect (and likely don't practice being carbon-neutral in their own lives) - and the proponents of these ideas are likewise doing nothing to affect things other than pontificate about it.  Or worse, they're profiting off the phenomenon by pumping fear in order for you to buy their shit.

It's disingenuous in its presentation and practice. It's not economically feasible by their own proponents (unless you buy their shit). It's the scientific equivalent of angels-pinhead-dancing-calculation in discussion and completely free of reality. And if America were "carbon-neutral" it would not change one single thing.

This is a horribly designed game.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 23, 2020, 11:44:47 AM
Nah, I'm there with you, tenbones.

The problem I've had for a while has been the deceptive practices of the so called 'climate experts'. The models don't match up, the data is massaged, and the raw results always seem to go mysteriously missing. The infamous 'Climategate' emails basically killed any interest I had in the phenomena.

Now I'm being lectured by an autistic moppet who should be down on her knees thanking modern civilization that she hasn't been married off like so much chattel in exchange for a dowry.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on October 23, 2020, 12:17:23 PM
Am I the only one around here that literally does not give a single shit about "Climate Change"?

My research is specifically in green energy, so I have to read a ton of crap about climate change. Fundamentally, I think green energy is a perfectly valid concept: why pollute if you don't have to? It's also important to find renewable sources of energy specifically because computing power is increasing at an astronomical rate and we might literally be unable to power datacenters and whatever else, which means stuff like phones and computers and pretty much anything reliant on the Internet will cease to operate. So it's a big deal, but NOT in the way leftist try to frame the problem.

RE: climate change, it is 100% total horseshit. 100%. Anyone who believes otherwise is a goddamn moron, sorry. I have read so many fucking studies on this shit, and we are essentially helpless to alter the climate in any meaningful way. Yet, everything is based on blaming humans for fucking up the climate.

Anyone remember when cow farts were going to cause the next ice age? That's what passes as legitimate scientific study in the real of climate change, speculating that due to the vast number of cattle used for human consumption releasing methane into the atmosphere, humans are actually responsible for the Earth getting all fucked up. It ALWAYS goes back to how humans are the root cause of any sort of cooling or warming on Earth, never anything else. Ever.

Climate change "science" is nothing more than modern day snake oil and leftist fucktards eat it up like it's candy. Feels over facts! Humans are bad! We need to protect Mother Gaia! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on October 23, 2020, 12:17:46 PM
Oops double post
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RandyB on October 23, 2020, 01:07:14 PM
Nah, I'm there with you, tenbones.

The problem I've had for a while has been the deceptive practices of the so called 'climate experts'. The models don't match up, the data is massaged, and the raw results always seem to go mysteriously missing. The infamous 'Climategate' emails basically killed any interest I had in the phenomena.

Now I'm being lectured by an autistic moppet who should be down on her knees thanking modern civilization that she hasn't been married off like so much chattel in exchange for a dowry.

If she's wasn't killed at birth for defects to begin with.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 23, 2020, 02:23:04 PM
Now I'm being lectured by an autistic moppet who should be down on her knees thanking modern civilization that she hasn't been married off like so much chattel in exchange for a dowry.
I'll respond to some other points in a bit, but I have to ask: What is this about? Is it a reference to me, or to someone else here? It seems like a non-sequitur to the current conversation.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 23, 2020, 03:51:58 PM
I'll respond to some other points in a bit, but I have to ask: What is this about? Is it a reference to me, or to someone else here? It seems like a non-sequitur to the current conversation.
Greta Thunberg, the current darling of the watermelon left.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on October 23, 2020, 04:50:02 PM
I'll respond to some other points in a bit, but I have to ask: What is this about? Is it a reference to me, or to someone else here? It seems like a non-sequitur to the current conversation.
Greta Thunberg, the current darling of the watermelon left.

How dare you!



 ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 23, 2020, 04:58:54 PM
I'll respond to some other points in a bit, but I have to ask: What is this about? Is it a reference to me, or to someone else here? It seems like a non-sequitur to the current conversation.
Greta Thunberg, the current darling of the watermelon left.
Ah. Thanks for the clarification, Ghostmaker.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 23, 2020, 06:45:06 PM
Am I the only one around here that literally does not give a single shit about "Climate Change"?

I honestly don't. Every time someone brings it up, it turns into their doomsday apocalypse prophecy that literally NO ONE reading this can affect (and likely don't practice being carbon-neutral in their own lives) - and the proponents of these ideas are likewise doing nothing to affect things other than pontificate about it.  Or worse, they're profiting off the phenomenon by pumping fear in order for you to buy their shit.

It's disingenuous in its presentation and practice. It's not economically feasible by their own proponents (unless you buy their shit). It's the scientific equivalent of angels-pinhead-dancing-calculation in discussion and completely free of reality. And if America were "carbon-neutral" it would not change one single thing.

This is a horribly designed game.

I give a single shit or maybe two. The climate narrative is driving some very bad decisions about alternative energy, nuclear power and pollution. Not to mention it's one of those polarizing dog whistles. "You don't believe in climate change? Which oil company bought you?"
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: tenbones on October 23, 2020, 07:04:45 PM
Am I the only one around here that literally does not give a single shit about "Climate Change"?

My research is specifically in green energy, so I have to read a ton of crap about climate change. Fundamentally, I think green energy is a perfectly valid concept: why pollute if you don't have to? It's also important to find renewable sources of energy specifically because computing power is increasing at an astronomical rate and we might literally be unable to power datacenters and whatever else, which means stuff like phones and computers and pretty much anything reliant on the Internet will cease to operate. So it's a big deal, but NOT in the way leftist try to frame the problem.

RE: climate change, it is 100% total horseshit. 100%. Anyone who believes otherwise is a goddamn moron, sorry. I have read so many fucking studies on this shit, and we are essentially helpless to alter the climate in any meaningful way. Yet, everything is based on blaming humans for fucking up the climate.

Anyone remember when cow farts were going to cause the next ice age? That's what passes as legitimate scientific study in the real of climate change, speculating that due to the vast number of cattle used for human consumption releasing methane into the atmosphere, humans are actually responsible for the Earth getting all fucked up. It ALWAYS goes back to how humans are the root cause of any sort of cooling or warming on Earth, never anything else. Ever.

Climate change "science" is nothing more than modern day snake oil and leftist fucktards eat it up like it's candy. Feels over facts! Humans are bad! We need to protect Mother Gaia! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

This was pretty much my take on it too when I started looking into it.

As an aside - my dayjob is primarily in data analytics and reporting (where I work in that other politicized hellhole: Covid research/care). And I can tell you the amount of political bullshit (like lockdowns and handwringing over the deaths and laying them at the feat of Trump) is based on so much bullshit hot-takes by the press and politicians, just from the complexity of the problem (logistics, research, testing, drug-manufacture, human trials etc) I can without having looked at a single scrap of paper on Climate Change tell you not to believe *anything* about Climate Change. (much less most of what you hear about Covid without proper context.)

Climate is so many orders of magnitude more complex than Covid. We have the best minds in the field working on Covid - and there are still a lot of things left to nothing but number-tracking. There is *no* fucking way these pinheads could be right on Climate Change.

Now something I do understand a lot is people. And when you can get people to believe in something that requires nothing but anecdotal evidence for ulterior purposes? Well my friend, you're sitting on a fucking goldmine.

Sure - go green if you can. But until you start putting Nuclear on the table to offset the lack of consistency from "Green energy" - it's unfeasible unless we're all willing to go full Luddite-mode.

Or they figure out how to make those Tokamak's to get through their 10-year testing cycle to bring their efficiency up (but that's been the pipe-dream for decades).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: tenbones on October 23, 2020, 07:05:38 PM
I'll respond to some other points in a bit, but I have to ask: What is this about? Is it a reference to me, or to someone else here? It seems like a non-sequitur to the current conversation.
Greta Thunberg, the current darling of the watermelon left.

How dare you!



 ;D


HAHAH I actually heard her voice when I read that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 23, 2020, 08:37:01 PM
Sure - go green if you can. But until you start putting Nuclear on the table to offset the lack of consistency from "Green energy" - it's unfeasible unless we're all willing to go full Luddite-mode.
I agree that nuclear is the best clean energy option, and we should be majorly expanding and developing nuclear power. Sadly, it remains unpopular among the wider public, and restricted by backwards attitudes. So I try my best to convince people to believe in the science on this topic - but it is a struggle.


Climate change "science" is nothing more than modern day snake oil and leftist fucktards eat it up like it's candy. Feels over facts! Humans are bad! We need to protect Mother Gaia! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I do think that far too much of today's political discourse is about feels over facts. Overwhelmingly, most people don't read opposing viewpoints - and start out with a hostile attitude towards them. I would prefer to talk plainly over facts rather than feels. That brings us back to the prior claim:


Further, modern coal-burning plants are some of the most sophisticated things ever created and are essentially carbon-neutral once you factor in all the mitigation protocols during the process. Just like modern diesel engines...which are FAR more environmentally friendly than electric, but you'll never hear a leftist utter such words as that would totally blow holes in their "climate change" agenda.
Quote from: jhkim
Source on this? All the scientific sources that I read are roughly in agreement. Modern coal might be cleaner than older coal plants, but they are still the most polluting source out there - of not just carbon dioxide, but also mercury, lead, and particulates. Here's one analysis, for example:

https://noharm-uscanada.org/sites/default/files/documents-files/828/Health_Effects_Coal_Use_Energy_Generation.pdf
Why do "climate change scientists" fly around in jets to conferences all over the world? Why aren't people advocating for putting a stop to major sources of greenhouse gasses like volcanoes and the Amazon rain forest? How does paying higher taxes magically fix the weather?

Maybe you need to stop being such a fucktard.
This is dodging the question and irrelevant name-calling. You claim to care about facts, which I believe - so I'd ask that you engage about them. What is your basis for your claim about coal power?

If you want actual answers to your other questions, I can try to put together some - but they sound more like position statements than genuine questions. For example, magic doesn't exist - so paying higher taxes does not magically fix the weather.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on October 23, 2020, 09:06:25 PM
Science has been so compromised by politics and by scientists and science orgs allowing themselves to become political footballs, that I doubt the reputation of "science" is going to improve any time soon.

I recently had dinner with a friend with a physics doctorate whose written books on the history of scientific thought (with ghosting from my girlfriend) and he was breathing fire over how the phrases "settled science" and "the science is settled" are a dangerous poison. 

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on October 24, 2020, 12:36:27 PM
Somewhat election related, but former Facebook moderator admits that FB specifically targets conservatives and that they don't just censor, but flag content for research purposes to get a feel for what people are discussing, etc.

PS: The video is titled "People Can't CHANGE Their Votes After Latest News...", but they only touch on that briefly and most of the discussion is on biased FB moderation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qfq8GgreWg
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on October 25, 2020, 03:31:18 AM
It appears that Taiwan has entered the battlefield.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/ (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/)

BLM...Biden's Laptop Matters



Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on October 25, 2020, 04:02:07 AM
There’s a small rhetorical trap in Bannon’s use of that outlet to release the video(s).  Very subtle of him, but a nice touch on his part
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on October 25, 2020, 05:14:03 AM
Science has been so compromised by politics and by scientists and science orgs allowing themselves to become political footballs, that I doubt the reputation of "science" is going to improve any time soon.

I recently had dinner with a friend with a physics doctorate whose written books on the history of scientific thought (with ghosting from my girlfriend) and he was breathing fire over how the phrases "settled science" and "the science is settled" are a dangerous poison.

Greetings!

Indeed, my friend. It is boggling that Jhkim seems to be blind to this very real aspect. Science as a discipline--and "Scientists" have taken a huge hit to their credibility and with the public's respect for them over the last thirty years or so. From a variety of topics, from medicine, to "climate change", to food such as eggs and coffee, nutrition, dieting, scientists have been shown to be full of political ideologies and agendas, and always greedy for fucking money and gaining more prestige in their personal careers--all the while being entirely blind to the truth, evidence, and otherwise willing to sacrifice truth for their own personal agendas. It has gotten so bad that scientists are just like doctors or lawyers or psychologists--you can find such "experts" to say whatever the fuck you want them to say for enough money. Everyone knows this is the truth, and the reality--which is why so many people are very skeptical of much of anything that "scientists" claim. We all know they are greedy, cum-guzzling fucks that have sold out to some kind of ideology or just a corporation or business that keeps writing them big fucking checks.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 25, 2020, 03:33:32 PM
As a general point, something frustrating to me in the current discussion is that it feels like people aren't willing to stand by their factual claims and engage in criticism over them. consolcwby posted a Fox News list of bad predictions, which I took the trouble to read and analyze, but no one even disputes my criticism. It just gets dropped. brad made a claim that coal power is essentially carbon neutral, but hasn't posted any sources or links to back up that claim.

I believe in facts over feelings, which others seem to agree on. So let's discuss actual facts.


Science has been so compromised by politics and by scientists and science orgs allowing themselves to become political footballs, that I doubt the reputation of "science" is going to improve any time soon.
*Everything* has become tinged by politics at these times. Science has never been completely immune to politics, but it has safeguards against influence that are not in other sources.

The question is, if you reject science, what information sources *do* you regard as reliable? What sources are *not* compromised by politics and used as political footballs?


I recently had dinner with a friend with a physics doctorate whose written books on the history of scientific thought (with ghosting from my girlfriend) and he was breathing fire over how the phrases "settled science" and "the science is settled" are a dangerous poison.
I tend to agree that this is a problem. In these hyper-partisan times, people are almost never willing to admit any doubt or uncertainty. Instead, they are rigidly certain that their side is 100% correct, and the other side is 100% wrong.

That said, some things in science are fairly well understood. Even though it isn't 100%, we have a good idea of vaccine efficacy. Some things are known to 90% or even 99%.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on October 25, 2020, 03:38:29 PM
Jhkim, I often don't agree with you but do this time. Safer nuclear power should be the future power source, to be supplemented by natural gas, wind, solar, hydro, geothermal as needed. In my understanding, coal releases contaminants, even uranium, into the atmosphere.
However, most leftist politicians I see lump nuclear just as much in "bad power sources" as coal and oil.

My PhD in physics friend (and generally our Dungeon Master) is often far left on many issues but also agrees on nuclear power being used. Unfortunately, the left side of Congress (ex. AOC) and her ilk are dead set opposed. Politicians love to control through fear. Just look at COVID.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on October 25, 2020, 04:48:34 PM
Nuclear power (and nuclear waste) suffer from 'not in my backyard'.  So do landfills. 

Effectively, everyone agrees that nuclear power is great as long as it isn't anywhere near them, specifically.  I don't see red states like Wyoming (or previously ruby red Arizona) supporting measures to store waste within their borders. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on October 25, 2020, 04:59:48 PM
Sauce: https://www.foxnews.com/science/10-times-experts-predicted-the-world-would-end-by-now
(I remember all this when I went to school and they are SEVERELY UNDERPLAYING all this shite that was THE GOSPEL TRUTH ACCORDING TO SCIENCE! You know, those evil people whose maths are racist! And are either white, know someone white, wear white lab coats, or are fashists anyway!) :P

So there's a list that spans multiple decades by "experts" in a variety of fields ranging from metallurgy to climate, looking for predictions that were wrong. And what did they come up with:

#1: A verbal statement on global warming by Noel Brown, who has a PhD in International Relations and served as a director at the U.N.

So do you want us to support the UN or not?  Because we can do this all day nit picking if someone like say António Guterres is even qualified to speak on any subject except for Engineering and even that is questionable considering it has been 50 years since he graduated.

Frankly it is questionable if so called "Climate" Scientists are even real scientists at all.  You may as well call Economists, Hygiene Technicians and Political "Scientists" scientists.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on October 25, 2020, 08:34:19 PM
Frankly it is questionable if so called "Climate" Scientists are even real scientists at all.  You may as well call Economists, Hygiene Technicians and Political "Scientists" scientists.
Science is just knowledge, and the methods for acquiring it. So economists and political scientists are scientists.

But it's important to recognize there isn't some monolithic "science" whose techniques apply everywhere. When people think of "science", they tend to think of the hard sciences, specifically physics. Which is based on experiments that involves isolating a single variable, making a prediction beforehand, and then testing it. That's the gold standard, and delivers a high degree of surety about the results.

The problem is that doesn't work in a most fields. You can't test humans like particles, because of ethics. Not to mention, humans are hideously complex, making it impossible to isolate just one factor and control for everything else. Anything that involves human behavior, incidence in human populations, or fitting patterns to historical data is subject to all kinds of biases, imprecision, and other problems that don't exist in physics. The degree of surety is lower. Sometimes much, much lower.

This includes all of economics, political science, and all the other social sciences. Many aspects of medicine fall in this category as well -- what we know about pandemics are based on historical population studies, after all. Even astronomy qualifies -- while it's a lot harder than any of the other fields I mentioned, it's still based on observational data rather than direct experiments (we don't have a lot of black holes in labs). And, yes, the study of climate. The models are based on fitting patterns to past data, and try to control for all significant variables in an inordinately complex and chaotic system.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on October 25, 2020, 08:58:41 PM
Nuclear power (and nuclear waste) suffer from 'not in my backyard'.  So do landfills. 

Effectively, everyone agrees that nuclear power is great as long as it isn't anywhere near them, specifically.  I don't see red states like Wyoming (or previously ruby red Arizona) supporting measures to store waste within their borders.

That's why New Jersey exists...there's a nuke power plant about 150 miles from here that provides A LOT of power to three of the largest cities in the US. No one ever talks about it because my guess is they're ignorant of the fact it even exists. The only information you can find about it on the internet is basically a bunch of "environmentalists" bitching about where to put nuclear waste. I think they're burying the crap out in the desert somewhere. Why not just shoot it into the Sun? 100% serious here...

Also, completely ignoring Jhkim from now on as it's apparent his religious views are based on what someone in a lab coat says and not any sort of divine authority.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 25, 2020, 09:29:52 PM
I've seen a few critiques about the waste generated by "green" power, like solar and wind. I'm wondering-

1. How much land has to be covered by solar panels to power the entire United States.
2. How much waste is generated by constructing solar panels. I hear it's not inconsequential, and very toxic.
3. How much waste is generated by broken and used up solar panels and wind turbines.

In 5-10 years, are we going to have a "crisis" generated by so-called green energy? Is it going to be a situation where we trade one environmental disaster for another?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on October 25, 2020, 09:53:21 PM
In these hyper-partisan times, people are almost never willing to admit any doubt or uncertainty. Instead, they are rigidly certain that their side is 100% correct, and the other side is 100% wrong.

It isn't so much "hyper partisan" as it is "compromise would make no one happy", and "talking and admitting doubt or uncertainty" is really the compromise platform expressed differently.  When what two groups desire necessarily exclude the other's end points there's little point in settling for a third loaf no one wants except the uniparty leading both sides - they wanted the compromise solutions implemented to date as a primary goal. 

The right has already heavily compromised.  It's gained them nothing, as the economic structure advertised as free market was instead a path to corporatism/oligarchy (that is now almost entirely supporting the left), and they traded cultural standards for that unwanted economic state.    The left mostly got the cultural victories it sought, and pitches the compromise corporatism as a path to managed "democratic" socialism.  So no, you're not getting good faith conversation anymore from the other side of the cultural aisle.  That was burned.  Perhaps by others than you, but still the smoke remains.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on October 25, 2020, 10:02:12 PM
I've seen a few critiques about the waste generated by "green" power, like solar and wind. I'm wondering-

1. How much land has to be covered by solar panels to power the entire United States.
2. How much waste is generated by constructing solar panels. I hear it's not inconsequential, and very toxic.
3. How much waste is generated by broken and used up solar panels and wind turbines.

In 5-10 years, are we going to have a "crisis" generated by so-called green energy? Is it going to be a situation where we trade one environmental disaster for another?

Hydroelectric is easily the best of the "green energy" solutions. Dams last a long time...Hoover Dam has been around for almost 90 years and powers most of Nevada and a lot of southern California. Niagara Falls plants are far older than that and powers update NY and a lot of Ontario. As stated, easily the most efficient and best. Solar panels in their current state last something like 30(?) years. The real issue is damage; you have a panel out in a field, it'll get pummeled by hail or bird shitting on it or whatever. Windmills, those giant things, are total trash. They do not have a long life, have to be turned off in high winds (check out Youtube) and don't work for shit with low winds, etc. They are junk beyond powering a well like back in the old days, mostly because they require a lot of resources that will never be reclaimed. It costs far more energy to make a windmill than will ever be produced.

Honestly, burning wood is a good power source, and is probably be better than any renewable power source except hydro, but people seem to have a problem with smoke. For reasons? I dunno, this stuff gives me a headache even thinking about. Just work on fusion and be done with it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on October 26, 2020, 12:51:53 AM
Why not just shoot it into the Sun? 100% serious here...


Requires too much delta V for a rocket or even a stream of rockets to de-orbit all nuclear waste into the sun. If you have the capability to do that, then you can build solar power satellites and solve most of the world's energy problem with those.

There are alternatives instead of burial like the new designs of small Thorium based fission reactors or breeder reactors. Main problem is the burdensome regulations on anything nuclear related.

 https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2017/08/10/the_nuclear_regulatory_commission_working_itself_out_of_a_job_110241.html

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/

http://physicsbuzz.physicscentral.com/2015/08/whats-more-radioactive-than-nuclear.html
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on October 26, 2020, 06:01:37 AM
Why not just shoot it into the Sun? 100% serious here...


Requires too much delta V for a rocket or even a stream of rockets to de-orbit all nuclear waste into the sun. If you have the capability to do that, then you can build solar power satellites and solve most of the world's energy problem with those.

There are alternatives instead of burial like the new designs of small Thorium based fission reactors or breeder reactors. Main problem is the burdensome regulations on anything nuclear related.

 https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2017/08/10/the_nuclear_regulatory_commission_working_itself_out_of_a_job_110241.html

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/

http://physicsbuzz.physicscentral.com/2015/08/whats-more-radioactive-than-nuclear.html
Thank you for those articles. I've only had time to read one of them this morning, but I plan to read the others after work.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 26, 2020, 07:59:49 AM
Hydroelectric is easily the best of the "green energy" solutions. Dams last a long time...Hoover Dam has been around for almost 90 years and powers most of Nevada and a lot of southern California. Niagara Falls plants are far older than that and powers update NY and a lot of Ontario. As stated, easily the most efficient and best. Solar panels in their current state last something like 30(?) years. The real issue is damage; you have a panel out in a field, it'll get pummeled by hail or bird shitting on it or whatever. Windmills, those giant things, are total trash. They do not have a long life, have to be turned off in high winds (check out Youtube) and don't work for shit with low winds, etc. They are junk beyond powering a well like back in the old days, mostly because they require a lot of resources that will never be reclaimed. It costs far more energy to make a windmill than will ever be produced.

Honestly, burning wood is a good power source, and is probably be better than any renewable power source except hydro, but people seem to have a problem with smoke. For reasons? I dunno, this stuff gives me a headache even thinking about. Just work on fusion and be done with it.
There's only so many places you can put a hydro plant, as well.

Solar/wind power would be nice as backup/auxiliary sources, but they fail as a primary power source unless you have an excellent method of storing the extracted energy (which we don't).

Nuclear and geothermal are the way to go in the long term, but of course the NIMBY crowd will be all over you.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on October 26, 2020, 08:12:21 AM
Greetings!

I thought I have read about the Belgians--or maybe it was Denmark--or the Dutch--that have embraced windmills and just love the things. Why is it they make good and efficient use of windmill farms, but somehow, here in the United States it is an inefficient, money-wasting fiasco?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 26, 2020, 09:17:20 AM
Greetings!

I thought I have read about the Belgians--or maybe it was Denmark--or the Dutch--that have embraced windmills and just love the things. Why is it they make good and efficient use of windmill farms, but somehow, here in the United States it is an inefficient, money-wasting fiasco?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
I would want to see specifics on how they're running their windmills. And mind you, it's Belgium.  Not exactly a LARGE country, albeit densely populated.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on October 26, 2020, 09:21:28 AM
Greetings!

I thought I have read about the Belgians--or maybe it was Denmark--or the Dutch--that have embraced windmills and just love the things. Why is it they make good and efficient use of windmill farms, but somehow, here in the United States it is an inefficient, money-wasting fiasco?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I have heard that Texas is big on wind power too.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on October 26, 2020, 09:59:07 AM
Greetings!

I remember when I was studying "Politics of the Future"--a high-level political science class that was into all the weird things, new economies, ecology, new sciences and discoveries--it was a very cool class. There was several related classes, and I took all of them. My professor was definitely conservative, and had a balanced and vigorous approach to all kinds of things. He also threw us about a dozen books from a variety of thinkers, scholars, journalists, and such that demonstrated conclusively that there was in fact, a "Deep State" and groups of inter-connected uber-rich families that had been involved with building and organizing an essential oligarchy over the last century, involving families from the United States, Britain, Europe, and Japan. Hence, a uber-rich, power-hungry globalist elite seeking to control and manipulate economies and governments on a mass, global scale is not some crazy conspiracy, but based in real facts and evidence, with very real people and organizations. We also discussed global politics, modern warfare, global terrorism, the military-industrial complex, ecology movements, and new kinds of energy development. The evidence seemed to indicate that contrary to the environmentalist nuts--there was no magic formula, super technology, or some such that was going to revolutionize anything. My professor did however, suggest that a combination of new technologies, new resources, and new industrial and environmental and economic policies and processes, taken and organized together, could potentially serve to be a reasonably effective solution to our various environmental and energy challenges and needs. One of the partial solutions that could prove helpful was windpower, using the huge windmill farms. He discussed the various efforts in some of the Northern European countries, like Denmark and Holland. I don't have the citation or immediate source, but it was discussed in the textbooks we used, as well as the professor's own lecture materials, videos, interviews and so on. That was all from some 20 years ago, as well. I would hope that things have improved, but the environmentalists and the eco nuts seem crazier than ever before, and I don't know for certain we have made huge strides in making economies and environments much better off than in previous years, though I suspect there has been some degree of progress, just not the radical crazy kind demanded by the environmentalist crazies like AOC and her ilk.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on October 26, 2020, 10:48:08 AM
The evidence seemed to indicate that contrary to the environmentalist nuts--there was no magic formula, super technology, or some such that was going to revolutionize anything. My professor did however, suggest that a combination of new technologies, new resources, and new industrial and environmental and economic policies and processes, taken and organized together, could potentially serve to be a reasonably effective solution to our various environmental and energy challenges and needs. One of the partial solutions that could prove helpful was windpower, using the huge windmill farms. He discussed the various efforts in some of the Northern European countries, like Denmark and Holland.
The biggest problem with wind is intermittency. Power grids require stable power, so when they use sources that fluctuate during the day, there needs to be a backup power source that's able to meet any slack in capacity, almost instantly. Which means for whatever amount of intermittent energy you use, you need to have that same capacity available in batteries, or be able to turn on and off other power sources on demand.

Except batteries are hideously inefficient, which ends up ballooning the amount of power you have to generate in the first place. And more stable power sources don't scale up and down efficiently, so there's either a huge overhead in varying their energy output, or you just run them at full capacity anyway and just dump the power when the intermittent energy sources are running at high capacity. Either can easily overwhelm the ostensible benefits of green energy.

I don't have a good feel for how this all works out. I can find studies on the lifecycle cost of windmills, but they only consider the construction costs, maintenance costs, and energy output. If they end up having to stand up new coal plants on still days to make up for the shortfall in wind energy, the pollution and waste generated to turn on and then turn off those plants might be greater than just running those plants at a steady capacity and ditching wind power. Nuclear is cleaner, but even harder to scale up and down, which means if you want to use a nuclear plant as backup for shortfalls in wind or solar, that you have to continually generate enough nuclear energy to replace all your wind and solar energy, making it entirely pointless. The Planet of the Humans documentary suggests that's the case, but they're also myopic, focused on specific cases instead of looking at the big picture.

The environmental costs of a specific windmill or coal plant are irrelevant, because they don't exist in isolation. It's about the total cost over the whole grid, when we replace one type of energy with the other. And I've never seen a good, authoritative, and detailed breakdown.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on October 26, 2020, 11:39:05 AM
More climate change stuff: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/scientist-suggests-eating-human-meat-to-tackle-climate-change-a4230561.html

How can anyone possibly support this nonsense?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on October 26, 2020, 11:51:09 AM
More climate change stuff: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/scientist-suggests-eating-human-meat-to-tackle-climate-change-a4230561.html

How can anyone possibly support this nonsense?

I remember that article from last year, IIRC the presenter was laughed out of the conference.

I support the spin-off of that idea, though. Using human corpses as compost. Sounds weird, but solves a lot of space limitation and moving organics problems that affect space colonization.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/14/science/a-project-to-turn-corpses-into-compost.html

https://www.ecowatch.com/washington-human-body-composting-2637805371.html?rebelltitem=3#rebelltitem3
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on October 26, 2020, 01:31:45 PM
A bunch of stuff on energy production...

1) Regarding nuclear power - there is a popular perception that nuclear power is dangerous, which drives the not-in-my-backyard-ism. But that's hugely incorrect by the science. The problem is that people don't blink twice at breathing in toxins from tailpipes and smokestacks. They accept that there are "bad air days" in cities where they stay indoors, and in general that there are unhealthy toxins and carcinogens all around them. Just look at all the warning labels on common items.

But if anything is labelled as "radioactive" - even at non-harmful levels - then people are conditioned to panic by ongoing cultural portrayals that ignore the science, like HBO's Chernobyl mini-series. In truth, the track record of nuclear power is that it is many orders of magnitude safer than any fossil fuel.

2) Regarding solar and wind toxic waste --  Wind power creates almost no toxic waste. Solar creates a significant amount of toxic waste -- more than nuclear, but no more than many other industries. And it's solid or liquid waste that can be safely disposed of without going into the environment. It's not even close to the amount of toxins that are dumped into the air and wider environment by coal power.

3) Wind and solar are subject to variation depending on the local conditions. Under good conditions, like in Denmark, wind power is a huge boon. But not every region has high prevailing winds. In Germany, wind power is much more mixed. Pat is correct that they can both be unreliable depending on the weather conditions. In most places they aren't a good choice for primary energy, but they are an excellent supplement. For example, in desert-like areas where electricity use rises in the day to power air conditioning, then solar power nicely offsets the changing usage.


Why not just shoot it into the Sun? 100% serious here...
Requires too much delta V for a rocket or even a stream of rockets to de-orbit all nuclear waste into the sun. If you have the capability to do that, then you can build solar power satellites and solve most of the world's energy problem with those.

There are alternatives instead of burial like the new designs of small Thorium based fission reactors or breeder reactors. Main problem is the burdensome regulations on anything nuclear related.

https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2017/08/10/the_nuclear_regulatory_commission_working_itself_out_of_a_job_110241.html

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/

http://physicsbuzz.physicscentral.com/2015/08/whats-more-radioactive-than-nuclear.html

Thorium and breeder reactors could be even better, but the problem of nuclear waste is overwhelmingly an irrational one. Nuclear waste is no more dangerous than tons of other toxic waste, and is much more carefully disposed of in current practice.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 26, 2020, 03:32:59 PM
But if anything is labelled as "radioactive" - even at non-harmful levels - then people are conditioned to panic by ongoing cultural portrayals that ignore the science, like HBO's Chernobyl mini-series. In truth, the track record of nuclear power is that it is many orders of magnitude safer than any fossil fuel.

Chernobyl isn't even really a fair evaluation of the pros and cons of nuclear power, considering the nature of the accident. An inherently flawed reactor design, lack of containment vessel for the reactor, inexperienced workers... it's like evaluating amateur musicians based on the performance of William Hung.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on October 26, 2020, 04:24:53 PM
Chernobyl isn't even really a fair evaluation of the pros and cons of nuclear power, considering the nature of the accident. An inherently flawed reactor design, lack of containment vessel for the reactor, inexperienced workers... it's like evaluating amateur musicians based on the performance of William Hung.

Didn't that dude make millions of dollars?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on October 26, 2020, 06:11:51 PM

But if anything is labelled as "radioactive" - even at non-harmful levels - then people are conditioned to panic by ongoing cultural portrayals that ignore the science, like HBO's Chernobyl mini-series. In truth, the track record of nuclear power is that it is many orders of magnitude safer than any fossil fuel.


I think you just used “conditioned” correctly. It’s been a while since I last saw that (after years of “we are conditioned to think men are stronger than women”)

By the way I once saw a razor hone that proudly proclaimed to be radioactive. No idea how that would help keep your razor sharp, but apparently decades before Chernobyl people used to think that “radioactive” was a sure win even if it made no sense :)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: crkrueger on October 27, 2020, 12:42:37 AM
I've seen a few critiques about the waste generated by "green" power, like solar and wind. I'm wondering-

1. How much land has to be covered by solar panels to power the entire United States.
2. How much waste is generated by constructing solar panels. I hear it's not inconsequential, and very toxic.
3. How much waste is generated by broken and used up solar panels and wind turbines.

In 5-10 years, are we going to have a "crisis" generated by so-called green energy? Is it going to be a situation where we trade one environmental disaster for another?

Solar Power is very toxic if you do what the Chinese do, and pour the waste products on the ground.
It’s not very toxic, but very expensive the way we do it, because can we recycle the toxins.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 27, 2020, 08:18:48 AM
Didn't that dude make millions of dollars?
*chuckles* Well played. And I dunno if he made millions of dollars, but he was canny enough to monetize his fifteen minutes into enough cash to put himself through college. So perhaps he's not the best comparison for this.

(Talk about 'upwards failure'. Fuck me, LOL)

The point still stands, though. Pebble-bed and thorium-salt reactors are not Chernobyls-in-waiting.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Manic Modron on October 27, 2020, 12:15:33 PM
By the way I once saw a razor hone that proudly proclaimed to be radioactive. No idea how that would help keep your razor sharp, but apparently decades before Chernobyl people used to think that “radioactive” was a sure win even if it made no sense :)

People used to put radium in their seat cushions because they thought it was healthy.  Something about invigorating the lower extremities or improving circulation.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 27, 2020, 01:44:23 PM
By the way I once saw a razor hone that proudly proclaimed to be radioactive. No idea how that would help keep your razor sharp, but apparently decades before Chernobyl people used to think that “radioactive” was a sure win even if it made no sense :)

People used to put radium in their seat cushions because they thought it was healthy.  Something about invigorating the lower extremities or improving circulation.

Or they'd drink it, giving a whole new meaning to the term 'energy drink'.

Unfortunately, there were some rather unpleasant side effects (https://www.cultofweird.com/medical/eben-byers-radithor-poisoning/).
Title: Q
Post by: jhkim on October 27, 2020, 02:09:54 PM
Or they'd drink it, giving a whole new meaning to the term 'energy drink'.

Unfortunately, there were some rather unpleasant side effects (https://www.cultofweird.com/medical/eben-byers-radithor-poisoning/).
Yes, people have always been irrational, and have bought into irrational claims. The cure-all "Radithor" was completely unscientific junk which had no backing in the scientific knowledge of the time. It was pure irrational fervor that stuff that glowed was cool and healthy.

While I don't think it's intentional, this is pretty much what I mean by "conditioning". You're not making any logical claim per se about nuclear power. But by bringing up the topic of an obscure radioactive snake-oil from 90 years ago, it has the effect of emotionally reinforcing the association of "radiation = death", which is really strong in people's minds.

Byers was fucking drinking a highly radioactive solution every day for three years! Even if it were a real medicine, he likely would have had horrible side-effects from overdosing on it. No one doubts that radiation can be deadly in sufficient quantity. But that's no different than almost anything. Too much sunshine will give you cancer, and too much oxygen will kill you. Radioactive substances can be harmful, but not moreso than tons of other toxins.
Title: Re: Q
Post by: Pat on October 27, 2020, 04:44:10 PM
While I don't think it's intentional, this is pretty much what I mean by "conditioning". You're not making any logical claim per se about nuclear power. But by bringing up the topic of an obscure radioactive snake-oil from 90 years ago, it has the effect of emotionally reinforcing the association of "radiation = death", which is really strong in people's minds.
It's not just irrational fear, the scientific understanding has also changed. During the Cold War, they overestimated the dangers from radiation -- more realistic movies like Threads tended to treat any radiation exposure as a death sentence. But in the 35 years since Chernobyl, they've learned a lot. The effects on the people in the exclusion zone are less severe than they imagined -- there's basically no evidence of an increased risk of cancer, birth defects, or other negative effects, with one exception (increase in thyroid cancer among children). This isn't to downplay the disaster -- the core is a hellish nightmare. But we're exposed to lower doses naturally, all the time.

https://xkcd.com/radiation/
Title: Re: Q
Post by: jhkim on October 27, 2020, 06:05:07 PM
While I don't think it's intentional, this is pretty much what I mean by "conditioning". You're not making any logical claim per se about nuclear power. But by bringing up the topic of an obscure radioactive snake-oil from 90 years ago, it has the effect of emotionally reinforcing the association of "radiation = death", which is really strong in people's minds.
It's not just irrational fear, the scientific understanding has also changed. During the Cold War, they overestimated the dangers from radiation -- more realistic movies like Threads tended to treat any radiation exposure as a death sentence. But in the 35 years since Chernobyl, they've learned a lot. The effects on the people in the exclusion zone are less severe than they imagined -- there's basically no evidence of an increased risk of cancer, birth defects, or other negative effects, with one exception (increase in thyroid cancer among children). This isn't to downplay the disaster -- the core is a hellish nightmare. But we're exposed to lower doses naturally, all the time.

https://xkcd.com/radiation/

I agree that the science of understanding radiation on the human body has advanced to prove that the LNT assumption is nonsense. Still, even during the 1980s, overwhelmingly the fear was still irrational. The Three Mile Island incident released so little material, it barely registered over background radiation -- yet the uproar was enormous.

The accident at Fukushima came long after Chernobyl, yet if anything, the panic was greater, with people hundreds of miles away on the American coast fearing radiation in the water.
Title: Re: Q
Post by: Pat on October 27, 2020, 06:31:48 PM
The accident at Fukushima came long after Chernobyl, yet if anything, the panic was greater, with people hundreds of miles away on the American coast fearing radiation in the water.
Well, we've become even more safety-conscious today. Some of this is legit, and the world is safer -- bike helmets for kids, even understanding allergies better. But a lot of it is just fear-mongering. Like stranger danger, fear of school shootings, and nuclear power.
Title: Re: Q
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 28, 2020, 07:56:38 AM
Yes, people have always been irrational, and have bought into irrational claims. The cure-all "Radithor" was completely unscientific junk which had no backing in the scientific knowledge of the time. It was pure irrational fervor that stuff that glowed was cool and healthy.
That happens sometimes. I think Fallout had a call back to it with some of their glow-in-the-dark Nuka Cola recipes.

Quote
While I don't think it's intentional, this is pretty much what I mean by "conditioning". You're not making any logical claim per se about nuclear power. But by bringing up the topic of an obscure radioactive snake-oil from 90 years ago, it has the effect of emotionally reinforcing the association of "radiation = death", which is really strong in people's minds.
Yes, the guy who was suggesting pebble bed and thorium salt reactors less than ten posts back is making claims against nuclear power.

Quote
Byers was fucking drinking a highly radioactive solution every day for three years! Even if it were a real medicine, he likely would have had horrible side-effects from overdosing on it. No one doubts that radiation can be deadly in sufficient quantity. But that's no different than almost anything. Too much sunshine will give you cancer, and too much oxygen will kill you. Radioactive substances can be harmful, but not moreso than tons of other toxins.
Hooray, you've discovered the LD50 concept.

Now I think you owe me an apology, because you blatantly and deliberately misread wry commentary about early misuse of radioactive materials as some kind of attack on nuclear power.
Title: Re: Q
Post by: jhkim on October 28, 2020, 02:18:18 PM
While I don't think it's intentional, this is pretty much what I mean by "conditioning". You're not making any logical claim per se about nuclear power. But by bringing up the topic of an obscure radioactive snake-oil from 90 years ago, it has the effect of emotionally reinforcing the association of "radiation = death", which is really strong in people's minds.
...
Now I think you owe me an apology, because you blatantly and deliberately misread wry commentary about early misuse of radioactive materials as some kind of attack on nuclear power.
Sorry, Ghostmaker. I have highlighted in bold above how I said it was not intentional. However, I could have been clearer in saying that - and for that I do apologize.

Those of us who support nuclear power have to work to overcome the bias that most people have - including ourselves, which works by subtle conditioning rather than logical argument. I'm not claiming to be above it myself. I know that in the past when I've taught students about radiation, I've scared them rather than overcoming their fears.
Title: Re: Q
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 28, 2020, 04:35:30 PM
Sorry, Ghostmaker. I have highlighted in bold above how I said it was not intentional. However, I could have been clearer in saying that - and for that I do apologize.

Those of us who support nuclear power have to work to overcome the bias that most people have - including ourselves, which works by subtle conditioning rather than logical argument. I'm not claiming to be above it myself. I know that in the past when I've taught students about radiation, I've scared them rather than overcoming their fears.
Accepted.

It annoys me that we seem to be losing our ability to analyze and weigh risks when dealing with possible dangers. Everything nowadays has to be risk free, bubble wrapped, no sharp corners and God forbid if it has too much Yellow #5.

Title: Re: Q
Post by: HappyDaze on October 28, 2020, 06:56:33 PM
God forbid if it has too much Yellow #5.
Must be a linked to a weakness in the power rings of the vocal idiots.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on October 30, 2020, 05:06:32 PM
 Popping in to comment quickly on Nuclear power.  It is cleaner and safer than fossil fuels.  The issue, especially in the USA, is regulations are INSANE.  There have been a few incidents that DO NOT get much publicity in the USA, but the most severe (and probably 70 percent of them are at a plant on the Savannah river in Georgia) are at pretty specific places, and usually involve the accidental release of some radiation source (and usually in the big picture a whole lot less dangerous or impactful compared to incidents at coal plants).  The incident at Three mile island, was a pretty simple MASSIVE failure of the people working at the plant (A relief valve was blowing off steam for hours and hours, dont remember exactly and no idea how classified the incident report is now) not so much an inherent safety issue.

  I have a feeling there is more to the regulations against nuclear power than simple public sentiment and closer related to financial/lobby reasons and how much stock that is NOT nuclear power owned by pelosi and mcconnell for nuclear power to be so restricted (takes over 25 years to get a plant built).  I say these things as a graduate of the Naval Nuclear Power Program, and working in and on a nuclear power plant for a few years after that.  I keep in contact with a fellow who was in with me, and he is leaving nuclear power now, because the industry is being put to death by the powers that be, flat out.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on October 30, 2020, 08:22:39 PM

  I have a feeling there is more to the regulations against nuclear power than simple public sentiment and closer related to financial/lobby reasons and how much stock that is NOT nuclear power owned by pelosi and mcconnell for nuclear power to be so restricted (takes over 25 years to get a plant built).  I say these things as a graduate of the Naval Nuclear Power Program, and working in and on a nuclear power plant for a few years after that.  I keep in contact with a fellow who was in with me, and he is leaving nuclear power now, because the industry is being put to death by the powers that be, flat out.

Shhh...you aren't supposed to talk about that... :-X
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mjollnir on November 03, 2020, 01:39:20 AM
A couple of months ago I predicted that Trump would lose the election. I wish to reverse that prediction before election day. I now believe that Trump will actually win the election but that the Biden campaign will attempt to steal it through mail in ballot chicanery and judicial interference. I don't predict who will actually be inaugurated in January. I myself am not voting. That is all.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 03, 2020, 04:50:04 AM
Requires too much delta V for a rocket

If we just increased taxes on the rich, we could easily afford more delta V!

Boom. Done. Super simple.

:D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 03, 2020, 04:59:21 AM
I myself am not voting.

There's no joy in avoiding this mosh. Be the hammer of Thor and vote for Trump tomorrow. It's very fun and the rain of lolz will be extra sweet knowing you added to the victory.

[and when lame co-workers gnash their teeth and wail for the next million years, you get to do a secret happy dance underneath the table while nodding your head in sympathy]
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 03, 2020, 03:25:25 PM
I notice SO MUCH more mainstream buzz around secession and civil war.  I think the election, regardless of who wins, is going to accelerate that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trinculoisdead on November 04, 2020, 12:24:29 AM
Hoo boy, here we go!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on November 04, 2020, 01:09:37 AM
Just stopping by to read the hilarity.  The only question on my mind is who I’ll be laughing at soon.  Will it be the Trump Derangement Syndrome Morons or the Trumptards?  I’m on the edge of my seat!  :o
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 04, 2020, 01:31:34 AM
Just stopping by to read the hilarity.  The only question on my mind is who I’ll be laughing at soon.  Will it be the Trump Derangement Syndrome Morons or the Trumptards?  I’m on the edge of my seat!  :o

(https://i.imgur.com/6rZ8g8Rh.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: crkrueger on November 04, 2020, 02:16:45 AM
2020: It just can’t get any worse.

2020 Election: Hold my beer...

There’s a real chance we could end up with 269 to 269.  The shitshow will really commence then.

EDIT:  Maine went 3-1 looks like, so if WI and MI go to Biden that means Nebraska’s 1 Electoral Vote for Biden will give him 270.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on November 04, 2020, 03:26:10 AM
Just saw Trump’s press conference.  In the same paragraph he said they need to stop counting PA because he’s ahead and keep counting AZ because he’s behind.  Let me grab my popcorn. Someone defend that.   :)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 04, 2020, 08:28:30 AM
Well, that was fun. OK, not really.

As it stands right now (7:30 AM CST), there are several states still 'in play': Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, and Arizona.

Arizona has been called for Biden by a couple news outlets. Nevada has Biden with a VERY slim lead and they stated they're not saying anything else till they tabulate the rest of the votes.

Wisconsin had Biden magically jump to the lead and will probably be called for him. Trump needs the other four states to win. He'll PROBABLY pick up Georgia and North Carolina, and Michigan as well, but Pennsylvania is still anyone's guess thanks to the election day fuckery (yeah, go ahead, defend barring poll workers from entering polling places).

Trump can probably eke out a win here, but don't expect the left to accept it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bruwulf on November 04, 2020, 08:51:15 AM
Well, that was fun. OK, not really.

As it stands right now (7:30 AM CST), there are several states still 'in play': Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, and Arizona.

Arizona has been called for Biden by a couple news outlets. Nevada has Biden with a VERY slim lead and they stated they're not saying anything else till they tabulate the rest of the votes.

Wisconsin had Biden magically jump to the lead and will probably be called for him. Trump needs the other four states to win. He'll PROBABLY pick up Georgia and North Carolina, and Michigan as well, but Pennsylvania is still anyone's guess thanks to the election day fuckery (yeah, go ahead, defend barring poll workers from entering polling places).

Trump can probably eke out a win here, but don't expect the left to accept it.

They keep finding big blocks of pure Biden in the mines in Michigan.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Luca on November 04, 2020, 08:58:58 AM
Isn't this the worst possible scenario?

I mean, regardless of what happens in the next 4 years, a 67% vote turnout means the silent majority isn't silent anymore, it went to vote and split cleanly in half. There are also several states with percentages like 51/49 or 52/48, so it is not even an easily defined geographical split.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bruwulf on November 04, 2020, 09:13:09 AM
And, yup, Michigan went blue. Suddenly.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 04, 2020, 09:27:25 AM
Isn't it amazing how 138k votes magically appeared in Michigan, all for Biden? Guess their printer broke last night and they had to get a new shipment in from Beijing.

Our Chinese overlords can't have us plebs deciding we don't want communism...anyone who thinks Biden really got around half the popular vote is a fucking moron.

EDIT: Oh and NOW they call Michigan for Biden, when Trump was up substantially. The fix is in...goodbye USA, was nice knowing you. Anyone have any reasonable idea when Civil War II starts?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on November 04, 2020, 09:42:03 AM
I voted for Biden, please don't destroy my property. I have a Biden sign right there!  :-

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on November 04, 2020, 09:51:46 AM
Possibly time for national separation. The Democrats are going to fraud the hell out of the swing states. Every time late results come in, it's in the Democrats' favor. It's magical.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: crkrueger on November 04, 2020, 10:07:22 AM
Isn't it amazing how 138k votes magically appeared in Michigan, all for Biden? Guess their printer broke last night and they had to get a new shipment in from Beijing.

Our Chinese overlords can't have us plebs deciding we don't want communism...anyone who thinks Biden really got around half the popular vote is a fucking moron.

EDIT: Oh and NOW they call Michigan for Biden, when Trump was up substantially. The fix is in...goodbye USA, was nice knowing you. Anyone have any reasonable idea when Civil War II starts?

No one’s going to war over a nailbiter election determined by absentee ballots.  There’s no rallying cry, no proof of Casus Belli.  Everyone will hope the riots are over and go back to Netflix.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on November 04, 2020, 10:23:43 AM

No one’s going to war over a nailbiter election determined by absentee ballots.  There’s no rallying cry, no proof of Casus Belli.  Everyone will hope the riots are over and go back to Netflix.
Will the war be when President Biden or Harris Exec Order our gun rights away?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 04, 2020, 10:33:20 AM
No one’s going to war over a nailbiter election determined by absentee ballots.  There’s no rallying cry, no proof of Casus Belli.  Everyone will hope the riots are over and go back to Netflix.

That's like, your opinion, man. You do you, I'm not kneeling down to fucking communists.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 04, 2020, 10:33:30 AM

No one’s going to war over a nailbiter election determined by absentee ballots.  There’s no rallying cry, no proof of Casus Belli.  Everyone will hope the riots are over and go back to Netflix.
Will the war be when President Biden or Harris Exec Order our gun rights away?
Probably. Especially if (a) the EO immediately gets blitzed with a lawsuit, sending it to SCOTUS (whoops!), or (b) red states just smile and say 'Nah, suck our dicks'.

The Michigan thing is so insultingly blatant, I'm surprised the Dems went ahead with it. Also, it seems there are more votes cast in Wisconsin than registered voters.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 04, 2020, 10:38:40 AM
Probably. Especially if (a) the EO immediately gets blitzed with a lawsuit, sending it to SCOTUS (whoops!), or (b) red states just smile and say 'Nah, suck our dicks'.

The Michigan thing is so insultingly blatant, I'm surprised the Dems went ahead with it. Also, it seems there are more votes cast in Wisconsin than registered voters.

No, that's nothing more than a conspiracy theory! It is totally true that 100% of the "mail in ballots" went to Biden. Also, don't Democrats get to vote twice? That would explain the Wisconsin thing. Gosh!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on November 04, 2020, 10:50:24 AM
This shitshow is so embarrassing for America.  Tech leader of the world yet they can't get their act together to properly track and count votes.  Even fucking Canuckistan has figured this out.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 04, 2020, 11:04:59 AM
This shitshow is so embarrassing for America.  Tech leader of the world yet they can't get their act together to properly track and count votes.  Even fucking Canuckistan has figured this out.

The Chinese-supplied voting machines broke down. Also, they had to take a break because the truck with fake ballots broke down before it made its delivery.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 04, 2020, 11:35:06 AM
I am so sicken and disgusted with the ballots.  They are fucking cheating.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RandyB on November 04, 2020, 12:09:05 PM
I am so sicken and disgusted with the ballots.  They are fucking cheating.

Undeniably so. It is obvious to everyone. It should be equally obvious that this cheating will not stand, and will not dictate the election outcome. What is not obvious is the sequence of events that will deal with this cheating. For that, we will have to literally "wait and see".
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Machaeus on November 04, 2020, 12:17:14 PM
I am so sicken and disgusted with the ballots.  They are fucking cheating.

Yup.  As I told a guy on Discord, "It just pisses me off that they're being so goddamn blatant about the cheat.  They don't care that we're catching them in the act, because they're so powerful."
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 04, 2020, 12:26:27 PM
What happened on 9/11/2001 started with the Y2K Election. Now, Agenda 21 starts with this 2020 election. It ENDS HERE, no matter which way the winds blow. It's officially over for us all!

On a side note, I heard from a source that Biden will be declaring victory between 1700 to 1740 today. Will be interesting to see the reactions from the media, protesters, and the politicos. I wonder if they will be talking about their "PLAYBOOK" or not, hm?

Well, it was nice getting to know everyone!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Razor 007 on November 04, 2020, 12:36:24 PM
America, the Divided.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on November 04, 2020, 12:53:14 PM
What’s the argument for cheating?  I haven’t seen any pundits claim that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 04, 2020, 12:55:21 PM
Both parties have had recent opportunity to pass through meaningful election reform with undivided control.

If the Democrats thought that Republicans were hugely cheating, they could have passed election reform legislation during Obama's first two years.

If the Republicans thought that Democrats were hugely cheating, they could have passed election reform legislation during Trump's first two years and/or launched investigations to prove the fraudulent votes in 2016.


Instead, it seems that the existing system is roughly balanced between Republicans and Democrats, and neither are pushing for any major reforms - at most minor tweaks. Rather than constantly bitching only about the other side, we should fix the system.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 04, 2020, 01:12:48 PM
What’s the argument for cheating?  I haven’t seen any pundits claim that.
Supposedly, the updated votes in WI and MI were 100% in Biden's favor. Not a single Trump vote. Trump went from being comfortably ahead to behind as around 120k votes hit both totals.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Armchair Gamer on November 04, 2020, 01:15:44 PM
The Michigan surge has been withdrawn and explained as a 'typo.'
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on November 04, 2020, 01:21:27 PM
Both parties have had recent opportunity to pass through meaningful election reform with undivided control.

If the Democrats thought that Republicans were hugely cheating, they could have passed election reform legislation during Obama's first two years.

If the Republicans thought that Democrats were hugely cheating, they could have passed election reform legislation during Trump's first two years and/or launched investigations to prove the fraudulent votes in 2016.


Instead, it seems that the existing system is roughly balanced between Republicans and Democrats, and neither are pushing for any major reforms - at most minor tweaks. Rather than constantly bitching only about the other side, we should fix the system.
All Congress wants to do these days is bitch and spend money.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 04, 2020, 01:44:06 PM
The Michigan surge has been withdrawn and explained as a 'typo.'
Linkage? I believe you, but I can't find anything on it and it still shows Biden 50k ahead of Trump.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Armchair Gamer on November 04, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
The Michigan surge has been withdrawn and explained as a 'typo.'
Linkage? I believe you, but I can't find anything on it and it still shows Biden 50k ahead of Trump.

  Most of my news has been from Twitter, alas, so I may be passing on bad intel.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: DocJones on November 04, 2020, 02:09:14 PM
The Michigan surge has been withdrawn and explained as a 'typo.'
It's an odd sort of "typo".  If not it's certainly a statistical improbability...
(https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/michigan-steal--600x379.jpg)

I can't explain this.
(https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/Wisconsin-Data-Dump-11-4-morning-526x600.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 04, 2020, 02:30:35 PM
Both parties have had recent opportunity to pass through meaningful election reform with undivided control.

If the Democrats thought that Republicans were hugely cheating, they could have passed election reform legislation during Obama's first two years.

If the Republicans thought that Democrats were hugely cheating, they could have passed election reform legislation during Trump's first two years and/or launched investigations to prove the fraudulent votes in 2016.


Instead, it seems that the existing system is roughly balanced between Republicans and Democrats, and neither are pushing for any major reforms - at most minor tweaks. Rather than constantly bitching only about the other side, we should fix the system.

That would require that Democrats recognized the danger 10 to 12 years ago, before the wave of Republican gerrymandering after the 2010 election. It is a mystery why the all-Republican government of 2017-2018 did not fix the problems (like shortages in the national stockpile for pandemics) the Trump administration has blamed Obama for.

But elections are run by states, not the federal government; Democrats in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania asked for changes to the vote counting to avoid the current issues by counting mailed ballots earlier, and the unrepresentative Republican legislatures refused to do so. If the mailed ballots that are counted last are mostly for Biden, it's because Trump discouraged his voters from using mailed ballots (at least in those states; Florida it was OK, for some unexplained reason).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Manic Modron on November 04, 2020, 02:42:49 PM
The electors don't turn in their votes until December 14th.  Plenty of time to recount, investigate, verify, double check, and possibly more.

Take time, do things right, ensure accuracy.  There has never been a need to rush for a result before dawn.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Cloyer Bulse on November 04, 2020, 02:47:14 PM
I am so sicken and disgusted with the ballots.  They are fucking cheating.

Undeniably so. It is obvious to everyone. It should be equally obvious that this cheating will not stand, and will not dictate the election outcome. What is not obvious is the sequence of events that will deal with this cheating. For that, we will have to literally "wait and see".

The most pervasive voter fraud I've every seen, and they're doing it openly. First and last time I ever vote. This is why I don't believe that liberal democracy can work.

The sense that I get is that the republic is dead since the system has been so badly besmirched and turned into a total mockery. Voting no longer matters one way or the other, it's just a matter of who is strong enough to take control.

The idea of Americans living as slaves to foreign chinese filth disgusts me.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 04, 2020, 02:54:54 PM
Within 15 to 20 minutes Louder with Crowder will show videos of Michigan election fraud and have a couple of witnesses.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 04, 2020, 03:12:50 PM
What’s the argument for cheating?  I haven’t seen any pundits claim that.
Supposedly, the updated votes in WI and MI were 100% in Biden's favor. Not a single Trump vote. Trump went from being comfortably ahead to behind as around 120k votes hit both totals.
  You fix a completely rotted out structure by DESTROYING it and then rebuilding.  I do not know if I have the stomach for that, and I have serious doubts you do.  I think instead we will just see a constant erosion of empire.  Though I agree with not bitching about it.  I can move, and I think I will just lay the tracks to get that train rolling and let all the folks who want to stay here and ride the titanic to the bottom do it if they choose.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 04, 2020, 03:40:20 PM
Did anyone seen the videos in the Louder with Crowder stream other than me?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on November 04, 2020, 03:51:51 PM
What’s the argument for cheating?  I haven’t seen any pundits claim that.
Supposedly, the updated votes in WI and MI were 100% in Biden's favor. Not a single Trump vote. Trump went from being comfortably ahead to behind as around 120k votes hit both totals.

It's super sketchy!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 04, 2020, 04:35:47 PM
Also, it seems there are more votes cast in Wisconsin than registered voters.

Debunked by Polifact and Snopes. Someone was comparing 2020 vote totals to 2018 registration; the total registered before the 2020 election was higher than the votes, and Wisconsin allows registration at the polling place.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/nov/04/tweets/no-wisconsin-doesnt-have-more-ballots-cast-registe/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/wisconsin-more-votes-than-voters/

I couldn't figure out what the Louder with Crowder claim was; something about votes being carried in in coolers? Not sure how they concluded that the coolers contained votes... How dare election workers bring their own food during a pandemic, I guess. I expect it is up to the party observers of the counting to look for bad stuff, in accordance with Michigan law, rather than randos with video cameras lurking by the doors and windows.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Larsdangly on November 04, 2020, 04:46:50 PM
You guys should save some of this stuff; you'll want to have plenty of it ready if, as seems likely now, the alt-right tears really start to flow in another day or so.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 04, 2020, 04:47:36 PM
ya'all sounding like tangency with all the handwringing and bullshit. it aint over till its over
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 04, 2020, 04:57:56 PM
Also, it seems there are more votes cast in Wisconsin than registered voters.

Debunked by Polifact and Snopes.

I dunno about Politifact, but I wouldn't trust Snopes if they said water was wet.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 04, 2020, 05:01:26 PM
Looks like Democratic Presidency and VP (by a nose), Republican Senate (one member shift plus new VP), Democratic House (though Democrats lost some seats and Republicans gained some seats).
That's a very mixed finish. It means one of the these two things can happen in terms of passing actual meaningful legislation going forward for the next couple years: 1) compromise, or 2) stalemate.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 04, 2020, 05:02:31 PM
Also, it seems there are more votes cast in Wisconsin than registered voters.

Debunked by Polifact and Snopes. Someone was comparing 2020 vote totals to 2018 registration; the total registered before the 2020 election was higher than the votes, and Wisconsin allows registration at the polling place.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/nov/04/tweets/no-wisconsin-doesnt-have-more-ballots-cast-registe/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/wisconsin-more-votes-than-voters/

I couldn't figure out what the Louder with Crowder claim was; something about votes being carried in in coolers? Not sure how they concluded that the coolers contained votes... How dare election workers bring their own food during a pandemic, I guess. I expect it is up to the party observers of the counting to look for bad stuff, in accordance with Michigan law, rather than randos with video cameras lurking by the doors and windows.

Even using the "reported" numbers, that's still like a 90% turnout...which is fucking ludicrous if you know anything about elections.

Looks like Democratic Presidency and VP (by a nose), Republican Senate (one member shift plus new VP), Democratic House (though Democrats lost some seats and Republicans gained some seats).
That's a very mixed finish. It means one of the these two things can happen in terms of passing actual meaningful legislation going forward for the next couple years: 1) compromise, or 2) stalemate.

Nahh, Trump will win, it's just gonna take a long time...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 04, 2020, 05:15:07 PM
Nahh, Trump will win, it's just gonna take a long time...

Your inability to process reality notwithstanding, my statement stands.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 04, 2020, 05:18:35 PM
Your inability to process reality notwithstanding, my statement stands.

Reality: Lots of litigation, voter fraud uncovered, Trump wins
Not reality: fucktards on a roleplaying game messageboard professing insider knowledge of politics based on crap they saw on Reddit
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 04, 2020, 05:21:37 PM
Reality: Lots of litigation, voter fraud uncovered, Trump wins
Not reality: fucktards on a roleplaying game messageboard professing insider knowledge of politics based on crap they saw on Reddit

You are in denial. It's Ok. You will get through the stages of grief eventually. We're here for you.

I don't read reddit, and I have a degree in political science, for what that is worth. Which is nothing because you're not here for a conversation. You're here to try and resist moving on from your stage of grief. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 04, 2020, 05:22:16 PM
You are in denial. It's Ok. You will get through the stages of grief eventually. We're here for you.

I don't read reddit, and I have a degree in political science, for what that is worth. Which is nothing because you're not here for a conversation. You're here to try and resist moving on from your stage of grief.

Denial about what? MASSIVE voter fraud? STFU, retard. This is just 100% blatant fraud and anyone who pulls their head out of their ass could easily see it. But I guess CCP shills like yourself are reveling in Biden fucking the USA over even more, so whatever.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on November 04, 2020, 05:25:03 PM
Denial about what? MASSIVE voter fraud? STFU, retard.

How do you envision this fraud going down?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 04, 2020, 05:34:33 PM
Denial about what? MASSIVE voter fraud? STFU, retard.

How do you envision this fraud going down?

(https://www.dailypnut.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/putin.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 04, 2020, 05:43:31 PM
Your inability to process reality notwithstanding, my statement stands.

Reality: Lots of litigation, voter fraud uncovered, Trump wins
Not reality: fucktards on a roleplaying game messageboard professing insider knowledge of politics based on crap they saw on Reddit
So we should listen to you, one of the fucktards, when you tell us that what the fucktards say is not reality?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on November 04, 2020, 06:25:01 PM
Denial about what? MASSIVE voter fraud? STFU, retard.

How do you envision this fraud going down?
No doubt you don't believe any of it but why did the swing states "stop counting" in the middle of the night? And magically after that, in the wee hours and beyond, every Trump lead evaporated. As Stalin said, it's who counts the ballots.

Why has Trump led Georgia and NC for all this time with 99% in and the MSM is not calling it? Why aren't they calling Alaska for Trump?

quoting another forum I use:
Wisconsin voter turnout by year:

2000 - 67.01%
2004 - 73.24%
2008 - 69.20%
2012 - 70.14%
2016 - 67.34%
2020 - 89.25%

yeah, right - totally believable!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on November 04, 2020, 06:32:48 PM
The most pervasive voter fraud I've every seen, and they're doing it openly. First and last time I ever vote. This is why I don't believe that liberal democracy can work.

The sense that I get is that the republic is dead since the system has been so badly besmirched and turned into a total mockery. Voting no longer matters one way or the other, it's just a matter of who is strong enough to take control.

I have voted for 25 years and I'm done, unless the courts force them to look real carefully at the swing state shenanigans.
It really is people voting themselves money until the whole thing goes belly up.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 04, 2020, 06:34:54 PM
This is the hill you need to climb right now, as this is where it's currently heading:

Georgia (Electoral Votes: 16): Toss-Up to slightly leans Biden
Pennsylvania (20): Leans Biden
Arizona (11): Likely Biden
Nevada (6): Likely Biden
Wisconsin (10): Apparent Winner Biden
Michigan (16): Apparent Winner Biden

You'd need to prove fraud in not just one or two locations, but MANY locations in MANY states. And it would have to be enough fraud to flip the vote, not just a few hundred.

The reason votes moved Biden overnight is because the votes that remained outstanding to be counted were in mostly blue urban areas because that's where the population is the most dense. Which, if you had been paying attention last night, you'd have known before you went to bed. Because THEY ALL TOLD US THAT'S WHERE THE REMAINING VOTES TO BE COUNTED WERE LOCATED.

You're in denial. Trump lost.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on November 04, 2020, 06:48:33 PM
I’m no partisan.  Election fraud is of course possible but needs to be proven.  So far it looks like Trump is finished.  I was really annoyed when the SJW crowd denied a fair election in 2016.  It looks like the Trump crowd is poised to do the same now.  Very ironic.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 04, 2020, 06:49:35 PM
Debunked by Polifact and Snopes. Someone was comparing 2020 vote totals to 2018 registration; the total registered before the 2020 election was higher than the votes, and Wisconsin allows registration at the polling place.
Even using the "reported" numbers, that's still like a 90% turnout...which is fucking ludicrous if you know anything about elections.

Brad, I think you may be confusing turnout among *eligible* voters and turnout among *registered* voters. For example, in 2016, there were 157 million registered voters and 137 million votes. That's 87%. An individual swing state with 90% is not at all ludicrous.

The more commonly reported number is turnout among *eligible* voters. For example, nationally there were 231 million eligible voters in 2016, which is a turnout of 59%. A turnout of 90% among *eligible* voters would be suspicious, I agree. But that's not the case here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 04, 2020, 07:03:18 PM
This is going to the Supreme Court.  If you watched the Louder with Crowder Election stream which I told you guys to watch you would had seen voter fraud in Detroit after closing time.  With video evidence and eye witness report.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 04, 2020, 07:35:40 PM
This is going to the Supreme Court.  If you watched the Louder with Crowder Election stream which I told you guys to watch you would had seen voter fraud in Detroit after closing time.  With video evidence and eye witness report.
You didn't post a link. I watched a bit of this video that I found by search -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivT2z5UgHxo

I don't see anything on video that indicates voter fraud. For example, in the first clip, I see a guy with a wagon going into a building. Is it possible that he has secret fraudulent ballots inside the wagon and that he got them into the voting counting center without anyone checking him? It's possible, but the video isn't proof of that. Another clip shows a bunch of guys with cameras and suitcases also near the polling place. Again - there's no indication that they (a) got into the ballot-counting area without being checked, and (b) that the suitcases contained fraudulent ballots as opposed to batteries, cables, and lights for the cameras.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 04, 2020, 07:43:44 PM
This is going to the Supreme Court.  If you watched the Louder with Crowder Election stream which I told you guys to watch you would had seen voter fraud in Detroit after closing time.  With video evidence and eye witness report.

If you looked carefully you will see it might not matter what happens with Detroit. If it turns out Biden squeaks out a win in Georgia, and it's SLIGHTLY trending that way right now, then he can lose Michigan and still win.

Y'all are in denial. You cannot "fix this problem" with one state anymore.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 04, 2020, 07:55:27 PM
They finally made a CrowderBit video.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 04, 2020, 09:31:25 PM
Greetings!

Well, if Biden and Harris manage to defraud this election, they will usher in Marxism and our Republic will be gone. Four years from now, you won't recognize this country as America any longer, if not a whole fuck sooner than that. Are you comfortable with a Marxist takeover of America?

Open your fucking eyes and swallow down the shit policies that fucking Bernie, Harris, Beto O'Rourke, Buttiegieg, AOC and the "squad" have all said they have planned for America, and ask yourself if that is a free America. Ask yourself if that is a vision of America that can somehow ever be reversed if they get into power. How is all of that BS not Marxist tyranny?

Amazing how many mindless fucking slugs there are that love Marxism. A big Marxist ass-fucking for America. Yay! More globalism, Marxism, racism, reparations, racial and sexual Olympic hierarchies, speech codes, gun confiscation, higher taxes, and brainwashing at an unprecedented scale--and fuck you harder if you are a white person. How nice. This is what is coming for America, and all of these mindless scum are drooling in joy and can hardly wait. How fucking pathetic and sad watching a glorious nation such as America choke, whither, and die. And all unleashed by traitors in our midst.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 04, 2020, 09:43:29 PM
Tim Pool stated that a large amount of Biden supporters are new people who know nothing of Biden.  Like 0 political experience.  They are going to get a shock once Biden gets war going to make elites happy.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 04, 2020, 09:54:27 PM
The fun never ends...

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 04, 2020, 10:04:40 PM
Greetings!

Well, if Biden and Harris manage to defraud this election, they will usher in Marxism and our Republic will be gone. Four years from now, you won't recognize this country as America any longer, if not a whole fuck sooner than that. Are you comfortable with a Marxist takeover of America?

Open your fucking eyes and swallow down the shit policies that fucking Bernie, Harris, Beto O'Rourke, Buttiegieg, AOC and the "squad" have all said they have planned for America, and ask yourself if that is a free America. Ask yourself if that is a vision of America that can somehow ever be reversed if they get into power. How is all of that BS not Marxist tyranny?

Amazing how many mindless fucking slugs there are that love Marxism. A big Marxist ass-fucking for America. Yay! More globalism, Marxism, racism, reparations, racial and sexual Olympic hierarchies, speech codes, gun confiscation, higher taxes, and brainwashing at an unprecedented scale--and fuck you harder if you are a white person. How nice. This is what is coming for America, and all of these mindless scum are drooling in joy and can hardly wait. How fucking pathetic and sad watching a glorious nation such as America choke, whither, and die. And all unleashed by traitors in our midst.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
(http://www.memecreator.com/static/images/memes/337149.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 04, 2020, 10:50:21 PM
(http://www.memecreator.com/static/images/memes/337149.jpg)

"SHARK, Stand back and stand by"
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 04, 2020, 11:11:51 PM
A update.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 05, 2020, 12:08:30 AM
Also, it seems there are more votes cast in Wisconsin than registered voters.

Debunked by Polifact and Snopes. Someone was comparing 2020 vote totals to 2018 registration; the total registered before the 2020 election was higher than the votes, and Wisconsin allows registration at the polling place.

Even using the "reported" numbers, that's still like a 90% turnout...which is fucking ludicrous if you know anything about elections.

Checking at https://elections.wi.gov/elections-voting/statistics
"Wisconsin's 2020 Estimated Voting Age Population is 4,536,293."
The vote totals I've seen latest had 1,630,542 Biden vs 1,610,007 Trump, plus 48,872 for third party candidates; not official but the final certified count is unlikely to vary a lot (and as Scott Walker noted on Twitter, statewide recounts in WI don't budge votes more than a few hundred votes). So, 3,289,421 votes out of an estimated voting age population of 4,523,293, or 72.51%. There's a spreadsheet at that website showing the comparable calculations for previous elections - presidential elections in 1960 and 2004 were both higher percentages.

Quote
Nahh, Trump will win, it's just gonna take a long time...

2024?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 05, 2020, 12:14:57 AM
No doubt you don't believe any of it but why did the swing states "stop counting" in the middle of the night? And magically after that, in the wee hours and beyond, every Trump lead evaporated. As Stalin said, it's who counts the ballots.

Did they stop counting, or did some step in the reporting process stop? If they did stop, probably it's because that's their established legal procedure for counting votes. You'd be complaining if they kept counting after the observers from your party all fell asleep. Trump leads evaporated in WI and MI, and are heading there in PA, because their Republican legislatures did not allow for any counting of mailed ballots earlier, Trump discouraged his voters from voting early by mail, and so the final ballots to be counted favored Biden by a huge margin.

Quote
Why has Trump led Georgia and NC for all this time with 99% in and the MSM is not calling it?

In both cases, AP says there are enough outstanding votes - mostly mail-in ballots, which generally have favored Biden - to make it possible that Biden catches up. (CNN only says 95% in for both states; the AP Explainer says 4% in GA and 200,000 in NC.)
https://apnews.com/article/why-ap-has-not-called-north-carolina-e07a1022a90ef31ca7c75d32eea1849b
https://apnews.com/article/ap-explains-georgia-race-call-f85794f3a45996afe6a5d750cb4a6cfb

Quote
Why aren't they calling Alaska for Trump?

Anchorage Daily News says "To ensure a voter hasn’t voted twice and is registered properly, absentee ballots won’t be counted until at least next week." But I'm also a little mystified as to how much uncertainty there could be, and there doesn't seem to be an Explainer from AP.
https://www.adn.com/politics/2020/11/03/alaskans-who-didnt-vote-early-go-to-the-polls-in-a-historic-pandemic-election/

Quote
quoting another forum I use:
Wisconsin voter turnout by year:

2000 - 67.01%
2004 - 73.24%
2008 - 69.20%
2012 - 70.14%
2016 - 67.34%
2020 - 89.25%

yeah, right - totally believable!

Wrong denominator for 2020; the other percentages match the spreadsheet
"Voter Turnout Partisan-NonPartisan Through August 2020.xlsx"
at https://elections.wi.gov/elections-voting/statistics

The votes aren't in the spreadsheet for November 2020, but the correct denominator is on the webpage and the spreadsheet:
"Wisconsin's 2020 Estimated Voting Age Population is 4,536,293."
That gives 72.51% for 3,289,421 votes, not even as good as 2004.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 05, 2020, 12:17:28 AM
I'm just going to leave this here: https://twitter.com/LadyQanuck/status/1324199972972187655

If true, then all legal ballots have been marked and can be verified. May turn out to be interesting after all....

"Think Logically If the playbook was known, why not just stop it from happening? Sometimes you must show the people, people need to understand, the great awakening has never ended. Why did Trump mention 4:00am at his 2:00am press conference? Trap Set"
-A quote from someone I read once...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 05, 2020, 12:56:28 AM
It's 2000 again, but with multiple lawsuits involving multiple states and its all going to be decided by courts which is the worst way to win an election, but THIS was always what was going to happen thanks to the mega-bullshit of mail in voting and allowing ballot harvesting to exist.

Either way, we're heading toward the shattering of the union.

One country, two opposing cultures doesn't work and will only result in social breakdown until either separation or one side of the culture war is crushed and/or submits.

There was never any energy on the left FOR Biden, only energy AGAINST Trump and that's obviously translates into energy AGAINST Trump's supporters...who are heavily armed, but perhaps too cowardly and weak (oops, I meant "pragmatic and sensible") to actually stand and fight.

We will see.

PS: the laptop still exists.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 05, 2020, 01:05:42 AM
(http://www.memecreator.com/static/images/memes/337149.jpg)

We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven,
that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and NOT TO YIELD.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on November 05, 2020, 01:10:04 AM
Republicans just need a guy with more self control and less ego.  If Trump ends up losing AZ a big deciding factor is he insulted McCain.  McCain was a POW which makes him a hero in my eyes.  Not smart of Trump at all. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 05, 2020, 04:00:33 AM
This won’t be finalized for a while.

But if Republicans can’t bring themselves to primary the otherwise-silent GOP Reps and senators telling trump to not make a fuss, 4 more years of trump mean nothing in the long run.

Hint: it’s not the Dems who are the true obstacle here to what you want to have happen in politics.  Example, in the past 4 years I see complaints that trump can’t get his appointees through the senate, yet the same red senators manipulating parliamentary procedures to never allow Trump the opportunity to make recess appointments keep getting re-elected.  It’s unheard of to prevent a president from your own party from making recess appointments

The call is coming from inside the house

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 05, 2020, 08:09:25 AM
Republicans just need a guy with more self control and less ego.  If Trump ends up losing AZ a big deciding factor is he insulted McCain.  McCain was a POW which makes him a hero in my eyes.  Not smart of Trump at all.
McCain also spent his entire congressional career chasing the media so they'd suck his dick (figuratively speaking). And as a result, he was utterly undependable when it came to any kind of non-statist -- not even conservative, but just not fucking statist -- principles or votes.

I could respect him for his time in the military and his endurance of captivity. But he was utterly useless as a congresscritter. There's a reason I referred to him as 'the least repulsive Democrat'.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on November 05, 2020, 08:11:10 AM
They are trying to tell us Michigan increased voting from 4.8 million in 2016 to 5.5 million in 2020. I expect many of these votes are fraudulent. I just don't see that kind of vast increase in participation.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 05, 2020, 08:16:53 AM
They are trying to tell us Michigan increased voting from 4.8 million in 2016 to 5.5 million in 2020. I expect many of these votes are fraudulent. I just don't see that kind of vast increase in participation.
What's hilarious is that the prize, for the Dems, is almost worthless. GOP retains control of the Senate, which means they're dealing with Cocaine Mitch. And the Dems have already set the precedent for challenging presidential EOs through lawfare.

My personal favorite hallucination is still the blathering about charging Trump for 'war crimes'. I guess he didn't start enough wars or sustain them...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on November 05, 2020, 08:28:45 AM
Here's another one, more votes than voters in 7 Milwaukee wards. Do I believe stories like this coming out or do I believe the party that tells me there is no voter fraud ever and voter ID is white supremacy?

https://mkecitywire.com/stories/564495243-analysis-seven-milwaukee-wards-report-more-2020-presidential-votes-than-registered-voters-biden-nets-146k-votes-in-city
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 05, 2020, 08:35:09 AM
Even if Biden wins, ya'all ain't doing shit but belly ache online. You're ALL MOUTH and nothing else, just like the emotionally stunted Tangency crowd. 

Trump still has 4 states he will likely win, including PA. There will be a recount in WI. The Donald even picked up one electoral vote in Maine. You all need to calm the fuck down.

Disgusting. If I was Trump, I'd be ashamed to count on any of you panicky bunch of hens.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 05, 2020, 08:48:18 AM
Even if Biden wins, ya'all ain't doing shit but belly ache online. You're ALL MOUTH and nothing else, just like the emotionally stunted Tangency crowd. 

Trump still has 4 states he will likely win, including PA. There will be a recount in WI. The Donald even picked up one electoral vote in Maine. You all need to calm the fuck down.

Disgusting. If I was Trump, I'd be ashamed to count on any of you panicky bunch of hens.
One of the reasons people are 'panicky' is the sheer amount of thrice-damned bullshit masquerading as news. Here, have a taste: news agencies are claiming John James (GOP) lost against Dem Gary Peters, and that Biden took Michigan.

And then you look at this: https://mielections.us/election/results/2020GEN_CENR.html

I'm sorry, does that look like a Biden win to you? Or a Peters win? And before someone says 'deepfake', that's through the michigan.gov website. Go there, search 'election', select 'current election results' and go to the General Election link.

Me, I'm just moderately pissed they're being so blatantly dishonest about things. At least fucking TRY to pull the wool over my eyes.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 05, 2020, 08:53:15 AM
The government page does show Biden and Peters ahead. Are you saying that information is incorrect?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on November 05, 2020, 08:58:46 AM
You all need to calm the fuck down.
Yeah, when all the mainstream media tells us there's no voter fraud, and yet fraud stories are popping up like spring flowers...
We know Democrat fraud rarely gets punished. It is frustrating, and toxic to the future of the US. People will continue to lose faith in all the institutions.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 05, 2020, 09:00:09 AM
The government page does show Biden and Peters ahead. Are you saying that information is incorrect?
*dies laughing at himself*

Well, that's what I get. The page just updated -- I was looking at one from 11/4/2020 at 11pm or so, and the new one does show them in the lead.

Guess the Dems were working extra hard to churn out those ballots.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 05, 2020, 09:01:47 AM
Y'all don't give any weight to stories of "racism" and other bullshit, but you're willing to believe this based on some crank with a youtube account.  ::)

You're just another side of the same coin with SJWs. It's dissappointing as hell.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 05, 2020, 09:27:04 AM
Y'all don't give any weight to stories of "racism" and other bullshit, but you're willing to believe this based on some crank with a youtube account.  ::)

You're just another side of the same coin with SJWs. It's dissappointing as hell.
Disappointing? You expected better? Here? Many of the posters here seem to get their reality straight out of heavily biased YouTube videos and don't question it. Conspiracy theories are held as truth and mainstream views are taken as being conspiracies. Don't be disappointed, learn to view it as the twisted entertainment it is once you realize nothing here is real.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 05, 2020, 09:42:23 AM
It is of course ludicrous to think anyone would cheat in an election.  People cheat on their spouses, cheat on taxes, cheat on tests, cheat in sports.  But, luckily humans, and especially Americans, have a built in complete and utter aversion to cheating in elections.  There is really no need to even bother looking into it, since we never look too hard for it we have no evidence, and since we have no evidence, no need to look too hard.
  Racism, of course exists.  We can even to change the definition, if needed, to help find it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 05, 2020, 09:47:02 AM
Honestly I think Biden/Harris is going to win this now, even if some states are recounting. Trump got an impressive amount of votes for someone in charge during an election year of absolute disaster though. It should have been a Democrat landslide, as predicted by the polls, but that never happened.

By all means recount and check for fraud, but being part of a democracy means not going to extremes when the opposition wins. That’s what they do in places like Afghanistan and why those places are permanently unstable. If things are going the way they seem I think it’s soon time to go back to being those independent-minded Republicans, who keep an eye on those in power and tell them to mind their own business.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 05, 2020, 10:05:20 AM
Honestly I think Biden/Harris is going to win this now, even if some states are recounting. Trump got an impressive amount of votes for someone in charge during an election year of absolute disaster though. It should have been a Democrat landslide, as predicted by the polls, but that never happened.

By all means recount and check for fraud, but being part of a democracy means not going to extremes when the opposition wins. That’s what they do in places like Afghanistan and why those places are permanently unstable. If things are going the way they seem I think it’s soon time to go back to being those independent-minded Republicans, who keep an eye on those in power and tell them to mind their own business.
  In a republic however, you impeach your political opposition as well as surveilling them and creating all sorts of juicy stories about hooker pee.  So I suspect this will get interesting.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 05, 2020, 10:08:20 AM
It is also, of course, known that Republicans are incapable of cheating as their nature is so angelic as to make that constitutionally impossible. Give me a fucking break. You're all more or less the same. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 05, 2020, 10:10:57 AM
It is also, of course, known that Republicans are incapable of cheating as their nature is so angelic as to make that constitutionally impossible. Give me a fucking break. You're all more or less the same.
  I suppose you should have quoted what I said.  Or at least have read it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 05, 2020, 10:12:06 AM
It is also, of course, known that Republicans are incapable of cheating as their nature is so angelic as to make that constitutionally impossible. Give me a fucking break. You're all more or less the same.

We are? Us? No!! It's them others. THEM OTHERS!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on November 05, 2020, 10:23:23 AM
It is also, of course, known that Republicans are incapable of cheating as their nature is so angelic as to make that constitutionally impossible. Give me a fucking break. You're all more or less the same.
Straw man which no one said. What many have said is voter ID across the board and voting on election day for most would help with fraud. Whoever said Congress, even when controlled by Republicans, couldn't or wouldn't do anything to make fraud less likely was, of course correct.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 05, 2020, 10:30:52 AM
Why aren't there any calls to contest the states that Trump won? If people cared about the integrity of the elections in any real way, they'd be questioning everything.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 05, 2020, 10:32:45 AM
Honestly I think Biden/Harris is going to win this now, even if some states are recounting. Trump got an impressive amount of votes for someone in charge during an election year of absolute disaster though. It should have been a Democrat landslide, as predicted by the polls, but that never happened.

By all means recount and check for fraud, but being part of a democracy means not going to extremes when the opposition wins. That’s what they do in places like Afghanistan and why those places are permanently unstable. If things are going the way they seem I think it’s soon time to go back to being those independent-minded Republicans, who keep an eye on those in power and tell them to mind their own business.
Mmm. May I recommend this essay? https://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=21724

As I've noted, this does not exactly cover the Dems in glory. They threw everything in against Orange Man Bad -- media, vote fuckery, impeachment, etc -- and still almost lost with their empty shell/political whore duo. Worse, they did not take the Senate, and they barely held the House. Their ability to screw with things is not near as unlimited as it was in 2008.

Go ahead, send out those executive orders. Expect to see them challenged in court, just as the Dems challenged Trump's.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on November 05, 2020, 10:51:27 AM
If things are going the way they seem I think it’s soon time to go back to being those independent-minded Republicans, who keep an eye on those in power and tell them to mind their own business.
Gridlock where the Senate and Courts block any Biden/Harris excesses doesn't sound too bad, especially national WuFlu lockdown, mass amnesty, etc.

For things completely unrelated to the Presidency, which seem insane to me, I noticed
* Oregon legalized all drugs (isn't it gov who pays for drug addict rehabilitation)
* Florida passed $15 minimum wage which should come in a few years in steps. Do the old people on Social Security think their IHOP server is worth $15/hr? Hi2u fast food robots.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 05, 2020, 11:22:08 AM
Gridlock where the Senate and Courts block any Biden/Harris excesses doesn't sound too bad, especially national WuFlu lockdown, mass amnesty, etc.

For things completely unrelated to the Presidency, which seem insane to me, I noticed
* Oregon legalized all drugs (isn't it gov who pays for drug addict rehabilitation)
* Florida passed $15 minimum wage which should come in a few years in steps. Do the old people on Social Security think their IHOP server is worth $15/hr? Hi2u fast food robots.
The ugly fact is that despite expending immense resources, and dealing considerable damage to civil liberties, we haven't exactly done well in the 'war on drugs' (the joke about drugs winning the war applies here). I share your distaste, but the current paradigm isn't working at all. That being said, I would also vote for 'no Narcan for frequent ODers'. Evolution in action, baby.

Not sure why the hell Florida passed that minimum wage law, though. Some people just want to believe in miracles, I guess.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 05, 2020, 11:25:50 AM
Not sure why the hell Florida passed that minimum wage law, though. Some people just want to believe in miracles, I guess.
One factor was all of the tourism industry employees (many of which are furloughed or outright laid off d/t COVID). Of course, the ripple effects of that move are not well considered, but then, they rarely are.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 05, 2020, 11:26:17 AM
OK by me if they vote themselves out of a job during a pandemic downturn no less. Robots are cool as hell and they don't give you no attitude. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RandyB on November 05, 2020, 11:31:21 AM
1. The polls lied.

2. Trump won. The Democrats' fraud is obvious.

Bleat to the contrary all you like.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 05, 2020, 11:32:03 AM
Robots are cool as hell and they don't give you no attitude.
I've worked with some robots that definitely gave attitude.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 05, 2020, 11:34:57 AM
1. The polls lied.

2. Trump won. The Democrats' fraud is obvious.

Bleat to the contrary all you like.
As an American, my grasp of geography may be a little shaky, but I was always that the big river that runs through the middle of the USA was the Mississippi...but right now it's looking more like d'Nile. ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 05, 2020, 11:35:35 AM
1. The polls lied.

2. Trump won. The Democrats' fraud is obvious.

Bleat to the contrary all you like.

If you say it enough times and really wish it to become true, it'll become true. Abracadabra.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on November 05, 2020, 12:26:16 PM
I'd hope that people on both sides can agree that what's happening right now is some 3rd world bullshit.  GOP had to sue to allow poll WATCHERS into polling station in PA which the Supreme Court in PA just overturned.  This is just to allow GOP watchers to join the DNC watchers inside the polling stations.  Stuff like closing a polling station and sending Repubs home then secretly opening and counting boxes of votes that are 100% Biden (no corresponding down ballot votes!).

doesn't matter who wins this is a VERY bad look.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 05, 2020, 12:32:16 PM
I can't wait until Kanye's people speak out about the obvious efforts to thwart his presidential run.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snark Knight on November 05, 2020, 12:33:09 PM
I'd hope that people on both sides can agree that what's happening right now is some 3rd world bullshit.  GOP had to sue to allow poll WATCHERS into polling station in PA which the Supreme Court in PA just overturned.  This is just to allow GOP watchers to join the DNC watchers inside the polling stations.  Stuff like closing a polling station and sending Repubs home then secretly opening and counting boxes of votes that are 100% Biden (no corresponding down ballot votes!).

doesn't matter who wins this is a VERY bad look.
Mainstream media won't talk about it and/or (in the 'fair and unbias' BBC's case) frame it as Trump being irrational and conspiratorial, the Usual Suspects will pitch it as "tiny handed Orange Man is just a sore loser" at best and "literally ANYTHING can and must be done to oppose a literal fascist nazi dictator getting into the White House" at worst.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 05, 2020, 12:49:19 PM
There is actually a lot from the major news outlets if you google it.

Here is one account from a local news source: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/04/poll-challengers-converge-detroit-amid-close-election-results/6161484002/

Unless someone has a reliable account with proof that there were more Demo poll watchers than Republican watchers, I'm calling bullshit. 

If the police is helping enforce fraud, maybe you guys can join the SJW call to defund the police. *snicker*
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: DocJones on November 05, 2020, 01:07:09 PM
Disappointing? You expected better? Here? Many of the posters here seem to get their reality straight out of heavily biased YouTube videos and don't question it. Conspiracy theories are held as truth and mainstream views are taken as being conspiracies. Don't be disappointed, learn to view it as the twisted entertainment it is once you realize nothing here is real.
I strongly suspect you're working for the Chinese Communist Party.   8)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on November 05, 2020, 01:19:25 PM
Y'all don't give any weight to stories of "racism" and other bullshit, but you're willing to believe this based on some crank with a youtube account.  ::)

You're just another side of the same coin with SJWs. It's dissappointing as hell.
Disappointing? You expected better? Here? Many of the posters here seem to get their reality straight out of heavily biased YouTube videos and don't question it. Conspiracy theories are held as truth and mainstream views are taken as being conspiracies. Don't be disappointed, learn to view it as the twisted entertainment it is once you realize nothing here is real.

I get my reality based on my own experiences, and my own experience is that mainstream views lie about things I know, sometimes from direct personal experience (having being involved with the groups being discussed, such as GamerGate), to be false. Even back when I was active in the progressive side and supported BLM, I was one of the people who parroted the "hands up, don't shoot" line, which later was confirmed to be a lie. And back during the Iraq War, the lie was about "Weapons of Mass Destruction". So you better believe I think that the mainstream media lies all the time. Because they demonstrably do.

I don't believe that mainstream media is full of shit because alternative media youtube channels told me that the MSM lies. I watch alternative media youtube channels because I figured out the MSM lies before I started watching them.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Machaeus on November 05, 2020, 01:42:48 PM
I don't believe that mainstream media is full of shit because alternative media youtube channels told me that the MSM lies. I watch alternative media youtube channels because I figured out the MSM lies before I started watching them.

This.

Keep in mind that the Alt Media is under far stricter scrutiny, and provides far more sources (none of which are circular) than the MSM.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 05, 2020, 01:57:27 PM
You can watch every step of this unfold, with explanations as it goes, here: https://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/2020-election-results-coverage/

No votes "magically" appeared over night. No vote batch went "100%" for anyone.

There were three types of votes being counted: 1) mailed votes, 2) Drop-Off votes, and 3) In-Person votes. In these three, there were variations, like "early in-person vote" vs "Election day in-person vote" or even "Early drop-off vote" vs "election-day drop-off vote". Because of the nature of the campaigns, in general Democrats tended to vote early, and Republicans tended to vote on election day.

So when counting, if the batch was "early" with either drop-off or mail-in, it tended to go Biden. And if the vote was "election-day" with either drop-off or in-person, it tended to go Trump.

Then of course you have the variation on geography. Votes in Philadelphia go very strong Biden, while votes in rural areas go very strong Trump. So WHERE the votes came from in a particular batch is important to what the vote is likely to be.

So then you come to any moment in time where you think some "magical batch of mystery votes" is being counted. If the batch is both 1) from an urban location like Philadelphia, and 2) a batch of early mail-in or early drop-off votes, it's going to skew extremely hard to Biden. On the other handm if the batch is both 1) from a rural location, and 2) a batch of election-day drop-off or in-person votes, it's going to skew extremely hard for Trump.

Ther blog covers just about every batch of new counts, in all the states people are watching. Not one has been particularly remarkable in the count. They predict what it will be and generally speaking it's coming in roughly close to their prediction. Which isn't magic, this is a simple formula which is baring out over the election in all the states.

If if you were not watching as it happened, if you just got blips here and there, or partisan spins on what was happening, I can see how people would think this is all some big nefarious fraud. But it's not. It's actually quite boring, and nothing nefarious is going on other than some minor human error here and there. It's just a lot of tired poll workers counting every ballot coming in. There are MANY Republicans involved in every poll counting facility in all the states in question, even in urban counting districts. It's mandated by law that you have a minimum of one member of each party (and then usually two independents) present for any issues. They're not reporting any major issues in the count.

As for the number of people voting, it's up for both Republicans and Democrats and not just one. It's up dramatically, for both parties. Trump received the most number of votes of any Republican, ever in the history of the nation. Biden received the most number of votes of any Democrat, ever in the history of the nation. Voting, across the board, is way up. This should come as no surprise to anyone, because it's SUPER EASY TO VOTE THIS TIME. Because in many states EVERY registered voter got a mail-in ballot which could also usually be dropped off in advance of election day. That's atypical. It gives people a lot more time to get their ballot in and lot more locations to get their ballot in and fewer restrictions on the day of the week or the time of the day they drop their ballot off. This level of flexibility increases the turn-out dramatically. And it's increasing the turnout for both major parties and not just one.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 05, 2020, 03:38:38 PM
Disappointing? You expected better? Here? Many of the posters here seem to get their reality straight out of heavily biased YouTube videos and don't question it. Conspiracy theories are held as truth and mainstream views are taken as being conspiracies. Don't be disappointed, learn to view it as the twisted entertainment it is once you realize nothing here is real.
I strongly suspect you're working for the Chinese Communist Party.   8)
If that were true, I'd like to see a paycheck from them. I recently resigned from the hellhole I was working at, and the last check comes in soon. I've got options, but if China owes me money, I want it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 05, 2020, 03:52:41 PM
Nevada is going into lawsuit.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 05, 2020, 04:27:47 PM
Trump encouraging voter fraud:

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 05, 2020, 04:29:12 PM
Considering the Coof, increased mail in voting in places that weren't experienced in handling it, and how tight this election is, I'm not shocked it's taking multiple days to finish. Having said that...

I seriously doubt the counts would have stopped if Biden's lead were solid.
I wouldn't be shocked if the Dems were pulling some shenanigans. I don't think the Repubs are above it either, but that's where we're at right now.

Buckle up for weeks of uncertainty.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 05, 2020, 04:31:17 PM
Trump encouraging voter fraud:



Is it voter fraud if they haven't counted your ballot yet?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 05, 2020, 04:37:12 PM
Even though I do not agree with some of the posters here, it is good to see that they are still allowed to have their opinion heard.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 05, 2020, 04:41:33 PM
Is it voter fraud if they haven't counted your ballot yet?

No, but it's so easy to spin and edit video.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 05, 2020, 05:09:55 PM
THE 2020 ELECTION: FUCKERY IS AFOOT
by Larry Correia

Quote
I am more offended by how ham fisted, clumsy, and audacious the fraud to elect him is than the idea of Joe Biden being president. I think Joe Biden is a corrupt idiot, however, I think America would survive him like we’ve survived previous idiot administrations. However, what is potentially fatal for America is half the populace believing that their elections are hopelessly rigged and they’re eternally fucked. And now, however this shakes out in court, that’s exactly what half the country is going to think. 

People are pissed off, and rightfully so.

Before I became a novelist I was an accountant. In auditing you look for red flags. That’s weird bits in the data that suggest something shifty is going on. You flag those weird things so you can delve into them further. One flag doesn’t necessarily mean there’s fraud. Weird things happen. A few flags mean stupidity or dishonesty. But a giant pile of red flags means that there’s bad shit going on and people should be in jail.

Except for in politics, where apparently all you have to do to dismiss a bunch of red flag is be a democrat and mumble something about “fascist voter suppression” then you can do all sorts of blatant crime and get off.

I’ve been trying to keep up with the firehose of information about what’s going on during this clusterfuck of an election. Last night I was on Facebook talking about the crazy high, 3rd world dictatorship level voter turnout levels in the deep blue areas of these swing states was very suspicious. Somebody gas lighted me about how “I’d have to do better than that”, so this was my quick reply, listing off the questionable bullshit I could think of off the top of my head:

The massive turn out alone is a red flag.

But as for doing better…

The late night spikes that were enough to close all the Trump leads are a red flag.

The statistically impossible breakdown of the ratios of these vote dumps is a red flag.

The ratios of these dumps being far better than the percentages in the bluest of blue cities, even though the historical data does not match, red flag.

The ratios of these vote dumps favoring Biden more in these few battlegrounds than the ratio for the rest of the country (even the bluest of the blue) red flag.

Biden outperforming Obama among these few urban vote dumps, even though Trump picked up points in every demographic group in the rest of the country, red flag.

The poll observers being removed. Red flag.

The counters cheering as GOP observers are removed, red flag.

The fact that the dem observers outnumber the GOP observers 3 to 1, red flag (and basis of the first lawsuit filed)

The electioneering at the polls (on video), red flag.

The willful violation of the court order requiring the separation of ballots by type, red flag.

USPS whistleblower reporting to the Inspector General that today they were ordered to backdate ballots to yesterday, red flag.

The video of 2 AM deliveries of what appear to be boxes of ballots with no chain of custody or other observers right before the late night miracle spikes, red flag.

Any of those things would be enough to trigger an audit in the normal world. This many flags and I’d be giggling in anticipation of catching some thieves.

And it isn’t that I have to do better. I’m just an gen pop observer who happens to be a retired auditor with a finely tuned bullshit detector. This is going to the courts.

##

So now I want to delve into some of these some more. The problem is that there’s a ton of info swirling around, some good, some crap. It doesn’t help that reporters are usually dishonest or not very bright and absolute trash at presenting data. Part of our problem is Big Tech is actively stomping on stories that make their guy look bad. (while compiling these I discovered that several of the links I’d looked at yesterday had been vanished by Facebook or Twitter)

For the last four years half the country was all “Trump is illegitimate! He’s not my president! He stole the election!” so on and so forth, and that was all based upon nebulous ideas about “Russian Interference”, The Russian Interference mostly boiled down to them buying ads on Facebook, or having fake bots trolling on Twitter last time. This time the actual giant megacorporations, Facebook, Twitter, and Google themselves have actively censored stories in order to protect their candidate. So you think after this pile of suspicious election clusterfucks that makes the game look totally rigged, the other half of the country is going to accept Joe Biden as legitimate? Oh hell no.

When you are auditing you see mistakes happen all the time. Humans make errors. Except in real life, mistakes usually go in different directions. When all the mistakes go in the same direction and benefit the same parties, they probably aren’t mistakes. They’re malfeasance.

Let’s go back a bit to before election day to see why people would be suspicious that the game has been rigged.

Most of the mainstream polls were utter garbage, off by what I believe to be the largest amounts ever in all of American history. Of course, this thing that surely demoralized the right and helped the left raise funds was just an innocent sampling error rather than a purposeful sampling bias… uh huh.

Then in the weeks leading up to the election, Big Tech and the media had a concentrated censorship effort to stop what was probably the juiciest October Surprise in modern history. But them silencing major newspapers and US Senators was just a mistake in their innocent efforts to “fact check”.   

Then on election day, states like Florida that were obviously swinging hard for Trump with no possible mathematical way for Biden to come back, the news wouldn’t call for Trump. States where it was still clearly up in the air just based on even the most cursory of statistical analysis (Arizona) they called for Biden ASAP. But that was just innocent mistakes, and not an attempt to set the narrative of inevitable Biden victory by major media.

When Trump pulled ahead in the midwestern swing states by what were starting to appear to be insurmountable amounts, they suddenly threw the brakes on the counts. (my favorite part of this was when it looked like Trump was going to win, the Chinese Yaun crashed, which is pretty telling about just how shitty a candidate Joe Biden is) Okay, suddenly stopping all those counts seemed a little weird, but most of America went to bed thinking that this was a close race, with Trump in the lead in the EC.

Then we woke up in the morning, and everybody saw the 538 graphs showing a massive middle of the night spike for Joe Biden, with almost zilch in corresponding votes for Trump.

Now, one of those got walked back as “typo”. (again, funny how all these “mistakes” keep going in one direction) but the damage was already done, and all of a sudden most of America was paying a whole lot more attention to places like Wisconsin and Michigan than we usually do. That’s how flags work. And it turned out that single six figure typo was only one of many statistically improbable Biden vote dumps to come.

Now, all of my liberal acquaintances were quick to dismiss these, with some gas lighting about how it was just deep blue inner cities votes coming in, and of obviously they’re going to vote for Joe Biden… Except that is them deliberately missing the point. It isn’t that Biden won those, it is that he won them with statistically improbable amounts.

I don’t know what the current numbers are now, but as of yesterday morning the Wisconsin Midnight Mystery Dump was something like 98.4% for Joe Biden. That’s better than the bluest of blue cities manage. That’s better than Biden did in DC. I saw one 28k dump yesterday (I want to say it was 538 talking about PA) that was listed as ALL for Biden. That’s basically statistically impossible.

In a small populace, you can get 100% of the vote. However the larger the sample, the more likely there will be dissenting votes. Even in the bluest of blue areas or reddest of red areas, somebody is going to be a cranky dissident, or an old person is going to fill in the wrong circle. When you get into the hundreds or thousands yet maintain that kind of perfect ratio, basically impossible.

Plus we are supposed to believe that Joe Biden, the guy barely campaigned, who got like 12 sad looking people to his rallies, was more popular than Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama? This election was just that much more special? Uh huh… Except that these few battleground state blue cities vote ratios don’t match up with other blue cities around America, where it appears Trump’s support among every demographic group other than white males went UP.

Then people were quick to dismiss these statistically improbable spikes with “of course the mail in voting favors Biden, republicans vote in person.” Yes, but they don’t favor Biden with these kind of ratios anywhere else in America. The ratios are more like 60-40 or 70-30. But 97-3? Oh fuck no. So either Biden is a better campaigner to the inner cities (though he rarely left his basement) than the eloquent messianic figure of Barack Obama, or there’s something fishy going on here.

Now, as a suspicious auditor type who spent a lot of hours looking for fuckery in complex systems, my gut tells me fake ballots were getting dumped into the system to make up the difference. And oh look, here is a giant pile of red flags indicating that’s the case.

Yesterday there was a meme going around about how Wisconsin had something like 90% voter turnout, and how this was 20 points higher than usual, and it how it would also be one of the highest voter turnouts in all of American history. If Wisconsin was at 90% that beats the highest national number in all of American history by EIGHT points. And that was 1876 (which was legendarily fraudulent by the way).

Except, this is the problem with using memes to make your argument, it was only partially accurate, and the previous Wisconsin numbers were cited one way, and the current year was calculated a different way. (don’t feel bad, I fell for that one too, and as an accountant, that’s SO ANNOYING). When most people think of voter turnout, they think what percent of registered voters vote. But because Wisconsin has same day voting (a gift for fraudsters) their prior year percentages were votes compared to eligible population (that’s so goofy). But it meant the meme was comparing apples to oranges. So the leftists immediately jumped on that error to dismiss the idea that there was anything weird about how many people turned out to vote this time.

HOWEVER, that’s useless obfuscation. Because if you calculate the number the same way that most Americans do, their turn out was still like 90%, which is a rate normally reserved for dictators (that combined with the vote ratios would have made Saddam Hussein blush). I had one liberal guy point out that notoriously corrupt Seattle also gets 90%… which doesn’t exactly help his case.

Because here’s the kicker, the high turn out is the average for the state, but when you drill down on the source of these statistically improbable blue vote dumps, they’ve got districts with TWO HUNDRED PERCENT TURN OUT. That’s over 200%. There’s 7 over 100%, and a ton of them in the 90s.  https://mkecitywire.com/stories/564495243-analysis-seven-milwaukee-wards-report-more-2020-presidential-votes-than-registered-voters-biden-nets-146k-votes-in-city

Now the quick liberal dismiss explanation for this is that Wisconsin has same day registration (again, a fraudsters dream) and thousands of people ignored months of TV and social media beating them over the head to get registered to vote, and just decided to do it at the last minute because Biden is just that awesome/Trump is just that bad.

Except if you’re an auditor, when you see super suspicious spikes like that in certain places, the first thing we think is that’s the place where you’ve got somebody over the controls colluding. So that’s where you go to fabricate your bullshit.

200% turn out is fucking insane. Same day voting or not. That’s madness. When I was looking into this stuff I pulled a HuffPo article about the 2012 election and how it was controversial that some Madison ward had gotten 119% turnout. 

Oh, but wait, there’s more.

A whistleblower has come forward from a Michigan post office saying that they were given ballots on November 4th, and ordered to post mark them to election day so they would still be valid.  https://www.facebook.com/JamesOKeefeAuthor/videos/381073273044980

That is so insanely illegal. When the reporter called the postal supervisor who gave the order and asked about it, he immediately hung up.

Now, on this one, liberals were quick to dismiss it because it was from Project Veritas. (who they hate, and say cherry picks their investigative reporting, yet they keep winning all the lawsuits against them) However, the very next video was the response from the US Postal Inspector General (or whatever his title is, I can’t remember) about how they are investigating, so this wasn’t just some crank going to a reporter, it’s been passed up the chain of command. It’s an actual whistle blower.

I had someone else try to dismiss this one as innocent, because the post office accepting these late ballots had no way of knowing who they voted for so it would balance out. That’s is so naïve its cute. Of course they knew who the ballots were for. They were probably dropped off by people they were colluding with. You don’t commit felonies for clueless strangers because you feel sorry they got their votes in late.

A quick note on collusion because I mentioned it a couple times now. Collusion is the key to successful fraud. Systems have controls and checks in places, so the best way to circumvent them is to team up with somebody over one of those controls and exploit the gap. That’s fraud 101. Which is why you go to the post office your buddy runs to drop off your illegal late emergency Save Biden ballots. Or you go to the ward your buddy the poll worker is running the log in book to same day register all your imaginary friends.

Speaking of the imaginary vote, this one is actually hilarious. Democrats are quick to say all votes must count, which apparently includes people who are 118 years old.  https://twitter.com/fleccas/status/1324216584219623424?s=21&fbclid=IwAR2rMt9iguDDYq_6H1FTQtMGekNEiTRRUNVsXN9xiEGvxS8z2VhHLJwo6-s

All those little fraud schemes come in from various directions, except the fraud numbers add up quick in a tight race. However, if you are behind by hundreds of thousands of votes in the middle of the night it requires some audacious level fuckery, which brings us to a red flag you can see from space. The 4 AM Biden Miracle. Here is an account from somebody at the counting center.  https://www.facebook.com/iamconniejohnson/videos/10225096326823289

This is the third link I’ve had to pull for this one, because Facebook keeps killing the others. Listen to the whole thing. Because after the statistically impossible votes came in, they had to toss a bunch of the GOP judges out of the building because of Covid.

Remember what I said about collusion? If you’ve got the actual system with the controls on your side, you can basically do any outlandish bullshit you feel like, and the only way you are going to get stopped is by an outside power (hence the multitude of lawsuits we’re going to see over the next few days).

Another thing you learn to spot when people are fraudulently manipulating data, is the mission-oriented spikes. On this one I’ve seen a few links, but the data has been so in flux that I’ve not been able to confirm it, but supposedly a bunch of the sudden Biden spikes weren’t just statistically improbable, they also voted for president but not the down ballot races. Now, lots of people will vote for president but don’t care about down ballot. However, when you get a pile of those in a row, that suggests somebody in a hurry filling out the mission critical bubble and then moving down stack, assembly line style.

There was also video taken of one guy delivering these mystery ballots to the counting center in the middle of the night (unloading them from a white van into a little red wagon) the link I used yesterday had been deleted by YouTube but I found this new one (can’t stop the signal, Mal) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh7h3w75D8U&feature=youtu.be

Gee whiz. I can’t imagine why mysterious boxes are being moved into this supposedly secure voting facility in the middle of the night with no observers or chain of custody.

And there’s more. They just keep coming. Yesterday morning I saw a small article about a republican official calling shenanigans on the voting in his small county, which went overwhelmingly Trump last time, and how it appeared the votes tallied weren’t even enough to account for his immediate family. Of course he got laughed at by caring liberals. Fast forward a few hours and it turns out that the voting program was faulty. https://www.westernjournal.com/election-program-issue-tallied-2-votes-gop-candidate-33-mi-counties-thought-using-software/

Worse, the same broken ass software was apparently used in 33 other counties. Hmmm… Again, with all these magical errors in these swing states all going in one side’s favor.

Then there’s SharpieGate, but I’ve heard so much conflicting stuff about that one, with sharpies actually working fine in the scantron machines, that I’m not putting much stock in that one yet. There’s a lawsuit already though, so it’ll be interesting to see what new information comes out.

Here’s another thing you learn about auditing. The more chaotic the system, the more chances for fraud. So when you come across a system that is extra chaotic on purpose, that tells you that the people running it want it that way for a reason.

And the flags just keep coming in. This is going to be way worse than Florida in 2000.

What happens now? Beats me. It goes to court, and then the real question becomes how much spine the republicans have to actually fight. In previous years I’d assume they’d be a bunch of spineless chickenshits and wimp out like usual, but I’m not so sure this time. I don’t know if or how any of these will pan out, and without access to the real data, all I can do is guess.

I can say without hesitation though, that fuckery is afoot, and if an actual real investigation happens they’ll be able to prove it. Only this is politics, so who knows. The only thing I do know for certain is that this election is so fucked up it is just going to make America’s two halves hate each other even more.

https://monsterhunternation.com/2020/11/05/the-2020-election-fuckery-is-afoot/?fbclid=IwAR2xFSfjvwbMnpOw_N9SuJkeRAGHVp1-OTE7AYMuKEnUXXCRNR2qlcZGU70
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 05, 2020, 05:22:11 PM
Even though I do not agree with some of the posters here, it is good to see that they are still allowed to have their opinion heard.

It is. Even though I think some opinions are silly here, I get it. People are super frustrated. This is a good place to get those frustrations out.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 05, 2020, 05:43:46 PM
This is a horrible place to get frustrations about the election “out”.  But people impotently venting their frustration into complacency is part of social media’s purpose

Much better is to vent all that frustration on to your local RINO elected officials, if you have any.  Or going to street protests if you live anywhere within reason of a contested state.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 05, 2020, 05:49:27 PM
Why aren't there any calls to contest the states that Trump won?

Good question! Why aren't the leftist scum contesting Trump states??? Especially in such a tight race??? That is weird.

Could it be that examinations and recounts of those states would reveal their unsuccessful fraud operations?

If people cared about the integrity of the elections in any real way, they'd be questioning everything.

I support that entirely. People have been losing faith in voting and the election system for decades. 2020 is yet more reason we need Voter ID, certification and verification of voting and identity. I do not believe we have a fair and transparent voting system in place, most especially as the culture war has gone into overdrive.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 05, 2020, 05:57:06 PM
Even though I do not agree with some of the posters here, it is good to see that they are still allowed to have their opinion heard.

It is. Even though I think some opinions are silly here, I get it. People are super frustrated. This is a good place to get those frustrations out.

Usually when lawsuits appear, those filing them are pretty far beyond just "super frustrated".

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 05, 2020, 06:38:53 PM
If anyone believes that violent revolt can't happen in America, you are choosing to ignore the history of the human race.

FYI, Armenia is currently 40 days into a hot war.
(Armenia's that's the country where they make big butt celebrity girls).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Nagorno-Karabakh_war

Remember Rwanda? AKA, how media fueled mass murder?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide)

Whenever I hear "it can't happen here", I wonder if its a first world superiority complex. Certainly it can't be that "whites don't do that" because most of the AntiFart violence is courtesy of paleface soycucks. More importantly, we're talking about "here", a country born of revolution and violence that already fought its own civil war with a history of civilian armed conflicts, even in the 20th century.

The USA is particularly poised for civil war because of 3 factors:

1) Everyone knows the culture war is for keeps and its been building for many years now. There's no "live and let live" or "agree to disagree" possible with the culture war. The culture war has seeped into everything (including our dorky elf games!). You can't turn on baseball - "America's pastime" - without BLM bullshit shoved in your face. If the leftists win, the old culture of America will be erased and replaced with the SJW agenda. This is "out with the old, in with the new" and that refers not just to getting rid of "old" ideas, but people and institutions who express and support those "old" ideas.

2) The American people are heavily armed with a large population of veterans and hunters. Think about the number of people who have been trained to kill for America just since 9/11. Think about the number of people who hunt and shoot for fun. Research the amount of guns and ammo sold just since Saint Floyd got himself killed. And then realize Rwanda's genocide was fought with farm tools.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107651/monthly-unit-sales-of-firearms-by-type-us/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107651/monthly-unit-sales-of-firearms-by-type-us/)
 
3) There is no credible, unbiased media in the USA. Echo chambers, by their very nature, become louder and more extreme. Combine that with social media censorship and election interference by Silicon Valley oligarchs and we're just waiting for the spark that ignites the tinder.

BTW, a study of civil wars shows us that we can't predict what will be that spark.  Hindsight, not foresight, is 20/20.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 05, 2020, 07:02:50 PM
If you think the Democrats rigged the election, please answer these simple questions:

1) Why did they rig it to be so close
2) Why didn't they rig the senate at the same time
3) Why did they rig it so Republicans gained seats in the house
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Larsdangly on November 05, 2020, 07:13:52 PM
No, don't discourage them! This is getting deliciously absurd and I'd like to see how far down the rabbit hole these doofuses will go.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on November 05, 2020, 07:34:38 PM
Let me preface this with I didn’t vote for president this time or in 2016.  Why?   Because it doesn’t fucking matter.  If you are in the middle class your life will continue to decline no matter who the president is.  From the outside looking in I see a serious problem with political views in this country.  It’s “because A is corrupt B is not”  “A is fake news so B is real”.  “A lies so B is honest”.  So forth and so on.  From my perspective if Trump loses it’s because he’s a clown and people don’t like clowns. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on November 05, 2020, 07:36:00 PM
If you think the Democrats rigged the election, please answer these simple questions:

1) Why did they rig it to be so close
2) Why didn't they rig the senate at the same time
3) Why did they rig it so Republicans gained seats in the house

If you think that's how election rigging works, please answer these simple questions:

1) Why didn't they rig it to be 100%?
2) Why didn't they rig it to make every single Senator a Democrat?
3) Why didn't they win every single seat in the House?

It's almost like they can only tamper with a few ballots at a time without getting caught red-handed and there's more than 300 MILLION people in the US, almost half of which voted, so they can't flip 100% every single vote.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Abraxus on November 05, 2020, 07:36:37 PM
No, don't discourage them! This is getting deliciously absurd and I'd like to see how far down the rabbit hole these doofuses will go.

Oh look it's the shit monkey who barely posts here and crawled out of his rock to do a drive by Trolling attempt and throw shit all over the place.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 05, 2020, 07:57:08 PM
If you think the Democrats rigged the election, please answer these simple questions:

1) Why did they rig it to be so close
2) Why didn't they rig the senate at the same time
3) Why did they rig it so Republicans gained seats in the house

No one's accusing them of being competent at it. So the scenario goes, the Dems didn't expect such a turnout for Trump, and ignored the Senate and House.

I'm reserving judgement until there is evidence, but I think investigating the close states is warranted.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 05, 2020, 08:04:06 PM
Let me preface this with I didn’t vote for president this time or in 2016.  Why?   Because it doesn’t fucking matter.  If you are in the middle class your life will continue to decline no matter who the president is.  From the outside looking in I see a serious problem with political views in this country.  It’s “because A is corrupt B is not”  “A is fake news so B is real”.  “A lies so B is honest”.  So forth and so on.  From my perspective if Trump loses it’s because he’s a clown and people don’t like clowns.

Binary Thinkers are the worst and the most hilarious ones I have seen recently are the ones who make statements like "If you dont vote for me then you aint black."
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 05, 2020, 08:30:46 PM
Trump claimed Democrats control the election process in Georgia. It's a lie.

(https://i.imgur.com/J9WNbAX.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 05, 2020, 08:33:00 PM
If you think the Democrats rigged the election, please answer these simple questions:

1) Why did they rig it to be so close
2) Why didn't they rig the senate at the same time
3) Why did they rig it so Republicans gained seats in the house

If you think that's how election rigging works, please answer these simple questions:

1) Why didn't they rig it to be 100%?
2) Why didn't they rig it to make every single Senator a Democrat?
3) Why didn't they win every single seat in the House?

It's almost like they can only tamper with a few ballots at a time without getting caught red-handed and there's more than 300 MILLION people in the US, almost half of which voted, so they can't flip 100% every single vote.

No that's nonsense. If you're going to rig an election, you at least gain enough senate seats to take the senate, and you don't LOSE house seats you gain some. Neither of which would have been a surprise, and both of which could have easily been sold to the public as accurate based on the polling.

Also, he's going to lose Georgia, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Michigan. And in multiple counties for each where it's close. The number of people you'd need in on this conspiracy is insanely high...for so little given they are not also taking senate and house seats in those locations.

And most of these locations are controlled by Republican Governors, legislators, and election officials.

This makes no sense. This isn't what a rigged election looks like. And you know it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 05, 2020, 08:42:56 PM
If you think the Democrats rigged the election, please answer these simple questions:

1) Why did they rig it to be so close
2) Why didn't they rig the senate at the same time
3) Why did they rig it so Republicans gained seats in the house

If you think that's how election rigging works, please answer these simple questions:

1) Why didn't they rig it to be 100%?
2) Why didn't they rig it to make every single Senator a Democrat?
3) Why didn't they win every single seat in the House?

It's almost like they can only tamper with a few ballots at a time without getting caught red-handed and there's more than 300 MILLION people in the US, almost half of which voted, so they can't flip 100% every single vote.

This is the right wing mind distilled: The enemy left are utterly corrupt and omnipotent (cheating anywhere they like at will, even where they don't need it) but completely incompetent and ineffectual at the same time (oops, forgot to steal even one senate seat of those that the polling said favored the Democratic candidate; can steal a presidential race in a state by hundreds of thousands of votes but are too chicken to cheat on a few thousand in a Senate race). The heroic right wing is of course simultaneously an overwhelming majority and an oppressed minority.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Larsdangly on November 05, 2020, 09:03:49 PM
No, don't discourage them! This is getting deliciously absurd and I'd like to see how far down the rabbit hole these doofuses will go.

Oh look it's the shit monkey who barely posts here and crawled out of his rock to do a drive by Trolling attempt and throw shit all over the place.

You caught me! Honestly, this place is such a cesspool that I do hardly come here anymore, but I knew it would be a great place to harvest right wing tears. Perhaps the thing I most appreciate is that my innocuous little posts are getting reported to the moderators at a brisk pace. When did the hard core right on this forum turn into a bunch of tattle tales? It is like the incel version of TBP.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 05, 2020, 09:04:46 PM
Interestingly enough, it's the poor showing by leftists for the House and Senate that's setting off MORE red flags.

It's well known the Never-Trumper movement is miniscule. Thus, it's not logical to see Republicans win while Trump loses. It's even more illogical that the epic Blue Tsunami for Dementia JoJo that eclipsed Holy Obama's vote count somehow didn't sweep leftists into the House and Senate.
 
Moreover, the presence of such an anomaly warrants a review of ballots, especially those where the only vote is for President.

ACB will certainly earn her own "Notorious" moniker after this debacle.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 05, 2020, 09:11:59 PM
Interestingly enough, it's the poor showing by leftists for the House and Senate that's setting off MORE red flags.

It's well known the Never-Trumper movement is miniscule. Thus, it's not logical to see Republicans win while Trump loses. It's even more illogical that the epic Blue Tsunami for Dementia JoJo that eclipsed Holy Obama's vote count somehow didn't sweep leftists into the House and Senate.
 
Moreover, the presence of such an anomaly warrants a review of ballots, especially those where the only vote is for President.

ACB will certainly earn her own "Notorious" moniker after this debacle.

Oh an actual "it's well known" claim.

Bwahahahahaha it's not fucking "well known" at all.

If this election were fixed, this would not have happened:

https://theweek.com/articles/947824/left-just-got-crushed

We're firmly in absurd lunatic sore loser conspiracy theory land right now with you guys. I saw far left loonies do this when W. Bush won on DemocraticUnderground years ago. You guys are making the identical ridiculous arguments that they did back then.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 05, 2020, 09:14:48 PM
Perhaps the thing I most appreciate is that my innocuous little posts are getting reported to the moderators at a brisk pace.

What would that button even do on this forum?

Maybe it's a dinner bell for RPGPundit to unleash some LOLZ?

We don't ban people for being leftist retards. This is a free speech forum. This is not a "right wing" forum. YOU and the rest of the way-too-soon gloating clowns are 1000% welcome to post here as much as you want.

And lurkers, please cause some crosss-forum drama with Tangency. Maybe some tasty Twitter screeds since you can't meme. Make sure you babble out some great quotes and maybe RPGPundit will make you "famous" on his podcast.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 05, 2020, 09:21:58 PM
Bwahahahahaha it's not fucking "well known" at all.

Pew Research - Trump had 87% approval among Republicans in August 2020
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/24/trumps-approval-ratings-so-far-are-unusually-stable-and-deeply-partisan/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/24/trumps-approval-ratings-so-far-are-unusually-stable-and-deeply-partisan/)

Also, you're proving my point about the anomaly. How is Biden both the MOST POPULAR candidate for President in history yet unable to win down ticket races for his party? 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 05, 2020, 09:25:10 PM
Greetings!

No "Right Wing Tears" necessary. I just ordered a new woodsman's tomahawk, 1,000 rounds of ammunition for my AR-15, and another 500 rounds for my Glock 45. I'm content up in the high mountains and forests here, where people are sane, god-fearing, and patriots that love *Traditional* America.

All the cock-sucking, blue-haired, pierced, tatted up gender-fluid Marxist fucks can dance a jig and choke on shit.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on November 05, 2020, 09:31:03 PM
If you think the Democrats rigged the election, please answer these simple questions:

1) Why did they rig it to be so close
2) Why didn't they rig the senate at the same time
3) Why did they rig it so Republicans gained seats in the house

If you think that's how election rigging works, please answer these simple questions:

1) Why didn't they rig it to be 100%?
2) Why didn't they rig it to make every single Senator a Democrat?
3) Why didn't they win every single seat in the House?

It's almost like they can only tamper with a few ballots at a time without getting caught red-handed and there's more than 300 MILLION people in the US, almost half of which voted, so they can't flip 100% every single vote.

This is the right wing mind distilled: The enemy left are utterly corrupt and omnipotent (cheating anywhere they like at will, even where they don't need it) but completely incompetent and ineffectual at the same time (oops, forgot to steal even one senate seat of those that the polling said favored the Democratic candidate; can steal a presidential race in a state by hundreds of thousands of votes but are too chicken to cheat on a few thousand in a Senate race). The heroic right wing is of course simultaneously an overwhelming majority and an oppressed minority.

If I am the "rrrite wing mind distilled" then the so-called "Right" has a fucking problem cuz the only "rrrite wing" issue I agree with them (at least in the US, cuz these bullshit "Left/Right" wing terms are so consistent and objectively defined they vary from country to country) is the 2nd amendment. I don't give a shit about the unborn (or most of the born for that matter), I've been a left-anarchist most my life (till around 6 years ago when identitarian woke politics kicked into full gear), and while I no longer consider myself a "socialist" I still tend to think that Craptitalism is shit and I don't give a shit about the rights of the corporations. In fact, I think that most of the problems we're facing these days--including the topic we're discussing right now, its largely due to how much power corporations (specially "big tech" and corporate media) have in the US and the world over.

I'm not even sure when I claimed that the so-called "Left" is omnipotent or that the whateverthefuck "right" is supposed to mean these days is an "oppressed minority", but I'll let you defend those claims, since I never made them. And the so-called (WTF is) "right wing" is an "overwhelming" majority? LOL, I guess we'd have to define WFT you does "rrrite wing" means to unpack that one, but...whatever dude, LOL
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Abraxus on November 05, 2020, 09:33:03 PM
You caught me! Honestly, this place is such a cesspool that I do hardly come here anymore, but I knew it would be a great place to harvest right wing tears. Perhaps the thing I most appreciate is that my innocuous little posts are getting reported to the moderators at a brisk pace. When did the hard core right on this forum turn into a bunch of tattle tales? It is like the incel version of TBP.

Good to know your a Normie as well as a trolling disingenuous shit monkey.

I did not report your post as you would consider it a badge of honor.

Time to follow my own advice and not feed the troll.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Abraxus on November 05, 2020, 09:35:50 PM
What would that button even do on this forum?

Maybe it's a dinner bell for RPGPundit to unleash some LOLZ?

We don't ban people for being leftist retards. This is a free speech forum. This is not a "right wing" forum. YOU and the rest of the way-too-soon gloating clowns are 1000% welcome to post here as much as you want.

And lurkers, please cause some crosss-forum drama with Tangency. Maybe some tasty Twitter screeds since you can't meme. Make sure you babble out some great quotes and maybe RPGPundit will make you "famous" on his podcast.

It's funny why he assumed automatically that his posts would be reported. It's such transparent, obvious pathetic attempt at Trolling that I saw it two galaxies away. Despite that he can post. Let him shit post it's not like he adds any value to the forum.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 05, 2020, 09:39:28 PM
Going to post this...

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 05, 2020, 09:53:10 PM

Oh an actual "it's well known" claim.

Bwahahahahaha it's not fucking "well known" at all.

If this election were fixed, this would not have happened:

https://theweek.com/articles/947824/left-just-got-crushed

We're firmly in absurd lunatic sore loser conspiracy theory land right now with you guys. I saw far left loonies do this when W. Bush won on DemocraticUnderground years ago. You guys are making the identical ridiculous arguments that they did back then.

Dude, no one likes backstabbing copperheads.  NeverTrump was despised long before election night

You should hope that establishment GOP took notes on how to rig primaries from Dems, because the rank-and-file is solidly behind Trumpism and won’t turn out for 1990-2016 globalist GOP crap. 

I sincerely hope the Republican Party is simply abandoned for a new alternative that doesn’t carry copperhead baggage. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 05, 2020, 09:55:53 PM
Whoever wins, the damage done to the confidence of the American people in our system of electing government officials is irreversible.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on November 05, 2020, 10:08:47 PM
You need an independent electoral commission like we have in Oz, Jeff. It should be run by people who genuinely do not give a shit either way.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on November 05, 2020, 10:10:38 PM
Greetings!

No "Right Wing Tears" necessary. I just ordered a new woodsman's tomahawk, 1,000 rounds of ammunition for my AR-15, and another 500 rounds for my Glock 45. I'm content up in the high mountains and forests here, where people are sane, god-fearing, and patriots that love *Traditional* America.

All the cock-sucking, blue-haired, pierced, tatted up gender-fluid Marxist fucks can dance a jig and choke on shit.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

You best believe I’m armed with my concealed everywhere I go these days.  The BLM/Antifa twats here in Portland started rioting before any of this election nonsense even started.  I would open carry if it didn’t invite harassment from the po po. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 05, 2020, 10:45:53 PM
You need an independent electoral commission like we have in Oz, Jeff. It should be run by people who genuinely do not give a shit either way.
How did you manage that? The "non-partisan" equivalents in the US are 100% partisan, just typically carefully balanced to be 50% partisan red and 50% partisan blue, completely locking out third parties, the disinterested, and independents. That results in hyper-partisan exclusionary shit like primary elections and gerrymandering commissions.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 05, 2020, 11:05:47 PM
Has there been a democratic system without any political parties in the modern era?

I wonder if its even possible. Tribalism seems coded in our DNA, or at least rooted deep in our brain.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 05, 2020, 11:23:33 PM
It should be run by people who genuinely do not give a shit either way.
It shouldn't be too hard to find people like that in America. Now to just whip them up into a apathetic frenzy.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 05, 2020, 11:37:24 PM
There have been a lot of proposals to expand the size of Congress because the size of the districts are too large (average 700K for a rep or 6.5M maybe /2 for a Senator), or because how much your vote counts varies too widely (that 700K for a rep varies from a little over 500K to almost 1M -- a Montanan vote is worth about half a Rhode Islander vote).

One proposal is to expand the House to 930 seats (https://time.com/5423623/house-representatives-number-seats/), which would minimize the whole "your vote counts more or less depending which district you live in" problem. Another one I've suggested before is making each district about 50K. That puts the public in closer touch with their rep, and roughly corresponds to the size of House districts in the late 18th and early to mid 19th centuries (35-70K or so). It would also mean we could give the various populated territories like American Samoa their own reps without completely screwing things up (the smallest House district is just over 500K, while the various territories are much smaller, in the 50-170K range.)

But then we'd end up with 5,000-10,000 reps, which seems absurd. So how about this: Get rid of geography, make it national. If 50,000 people anywhere in the US vote for a Satanist, then the Satanist gets a seat. If 5,000,000 vote for Kayne West, he also gets a seat. But with 100 times the number of votes, he gets 100 times the number of votes on the floor. So we might end up with only a couple hundred seated reps, but 6,500 total votes distributed among them based on their public support. This would allow minorities, assembled from small but organized groups across the entire nation, to have a voice in Congress, something that's been completely absent from the current system. And since it creates a parliamentary-style distribution, even the single vote reps might be able to extract practical concessions, when forming coalitions, so they'll end up with a smidgen of practical power on top of the voice.

This is less a serious proposal, and more a thought experiment, because I still like geographical ties. Government where people live makes sense for all kinds of things like education and infrastructure, which should be reflected in the national legislature.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 05, 2020, 11:38:07 PM
It should be run by people who genuinely do not give a shit either way.
It shouldn't be too hard to find people like that in America. Now to just whip them up into a apathetic frenzy.

"I'd like to volunteer!"

"DISQUALIFIED!"
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on November 05, 2020, 11:51:57 PM
How did you manage that?
You appoint the head of the electoral commission (https://aec.gov.au/About_AEC/) for five years, renewable for further five year terms. They do not serve at the pleasure of the government of the day.

The other things like how to when and how draw electoral boundaries etc are written in the legislation so there's not a lot of room for the AEC to fuck around with them. There are obviously other aspects, but this talks about (https://aec.gov.au/faqs/Redistributions.htm) how electoral boundaries are drawn.

Two other aspects are relevant. The first is compulsory voting, and the other is preferential voting.

With voluntary voting, you have to motivate people to get out and vote. You can do this by inspiring them or by making them angry.

It's a lot, lot easier to make them angry. This encourages polarisation of the political process, and this flows down the hill to all the many and various appointments of judges and EPA officials and all the rest which any normal government makes. With compulsory voting, people just have to vote, the only question is for who. Some parties still try to make people angry but they tend to be minority parties (ie never forming part of a government), and stay minority unless they change to behaving like a major party, which get people to vote for them by promising them benefits. So there's not such a motivation to politicise institutions.

As for preferential voting, essentially it works as, you get a ballot paper, and number the candidates 1,2,3, etc in your order of preference. First the AEC looks at all the "1" votes. If someone gets more than 50%, they're in. If not - whoever got the least votes, they take their ballot papers and look at who they put 2nd, and allocate those votes to them.

For example, Kyle, Pat and Pundit are candidates, and we have 100 voters. The primary (put "1") vote goes as follows,
Kyle 45
Pat 40
Pundit 15

Pundit is eliminated, and they look at Pundit's voters and see who they put 2nd. Of the 15 Pundit voters, 3 put Kyle 2nd, and 12 and put Pat 2nd. Now it goes,
Kyle 45+3 = 48
Pat 40+12 = 52
and Pat is elected. Of course it becomes more complicated with 10 or whatever candidates, but you get the picture.

The result of this is that groups who get just a few percent of the vote and would never themselves get in do have some influence. Parties can recommend to their followers who they should preference. So Pundit could tell his followers, "actually, put Kyle 2nd." They may or may not listen, but many do - and then Kyle gets 6 of the 2nd preference votes instead of 3, and gets in.

In this way, a party like the Greens who themselves almost never win seats can influence policy. The major party comes along and says, "If we subsidise wind turbines, will you tell your voters to put us 2nd?" and the other says, "If we let in more refugees, will you...?" And so the major parties start taking on some of the policies of minor parties. This, too, makes things less polarised, and reduces the tendency to politicising institutions.

Of course it's not foolproof. Here in Victoria the police have become politicised because the same guys have been in for 17 of the last 20 years, so all the senior police were appointed by those guys. Thus BLM, climate, etc protests being allowed but anti-government ones broken up. So we can say that an independent electoral commission, compulsory and preferential voting certainly help, but they are not everything in preventing the politicisation of institutions.

On the other hand, nobody doubts the legitimacy of our elections. The elections are free and fair and essentially without fraud or manipulation - even if the government of the day is corrupt as all fuck, people definitely chose that corrupt government.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on November 05, 2020, 11:55:20 PM
This is less a serious proposal, and more a thought experiment -
Speaking of which, the scifi authour Karl Gallagher had a world where they had an auctionocracy - individuals or groups would do secret bidding for seats in parliament, and the funds from the winning bids were the planet's budget that year. Corporations, unions, lobby groups or whoever could bid as they saw fit. Instead of fighting corruption and bribery, make it part of the system, and use the funds for the public good! It's an intriguing idea :)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 06, 2020, 12:02:09 AM
How did you manage that?
You ...
I'll have to think about the implications. But thanks for posting it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on November 06, 2020, 12:16:33 AM
I don't think you could get compulsory voting happening in the US. But you could get preferential voting, and some independent electoral commissions.

Just think: with preferential voting, the Libertarian Party would determine the current US Presidential election :D That's one way to move the Overton Window!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 06, 2020, 12:38:32 AM
One problem with the version of ranked voting you're describing is a lot of people think the candidate with the most public support should win, not someone who gets the edge because they're the second choice. It seems to be a fixation of a lot of the one person, one vote crowd who don't realize that's not some kind of perfect platonic ideal, and that all voting systems come with weird and unexpected consequences.

Another variation on the bidding system might be to make the vote a betting system. Instead of picking a candidate, you weigh which one will be the best president, and then place a bet on how well they'll do. The person who gets elected is the one the most betters rate the highest, and all the money they bet is placed in a trust. After the candidate leave office, there's a popular opinion poll on how well they did, and the betters get money based on how well they predicted the public sentiment.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 06, 2020, 12:52:24 AM
LEFT RIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!

If everyone wants a fight, we should be fighting THIS:

and not each other. It's what Mr. Bigglesworth wants!  ;)

Also, it's why I have been following this place - https://x22report.com/the-sting-operation-has-begun-trump-knew-be-ready-eas-on-deck-episode-2321/

(If anyone has been paying attention, I don't believe in humanity. I believe only in fud. However, that doesn't mean I'm ASLEEP. Especially since my life is literally on the line with all this. Because of what I know, I can tell you all - where I come from, the dead always come out to vote. 2018, it was a by a margin of 1.102:1.00 meaning, twice as many people voted as there are legally registered voters. And, it's a sanctuary city. And we've had the same mayor for over 23 years. Last person to run against him was FORCED out of town. As was most of our old retired police officers AND veterans. Isn't much to do except wait to see if they do to me what they did to the last guy to try and expose them. I always wanted to meet the death squads of the USA. I wonder how many of them were former Delta...)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 06, 2020, 01:17:58 AM
Again, Larry Correia reporting live from the front lines:

Quote
Fascinating stuff on Twitter tonight. Apparently somebody gathered a giant list of dead people for Wisconsin and Michigan, and crowd sourced a hunt through the voting records to see how many dead people registered and voted. And then people began to plug them into the state websites. Many were registered but didn’t vote, but many others did vote in 2020. (Joe Biden is so popular that even being dead can’t stop the Joementum!)

When people found dead voters they would post the names and birth dates (many of them 100 years ago) so that others could confirm them for themselves. Now I’m not saying these are all accurate and I have no idea how many there will be, but you can check those yourselves. It’s darkly hilarious.

Yet while I watched this, Twitter kept deleting the accounts sharing the file list. They’d block somebody, and then ten minutes later someone else would share it and get blocked too. In the half an hour or so I scrolled through dead voters the people sharing the list kept vanishing. It was kind of amazing to watch real time. But one would get blocked and somebody else would take their place.

If the thing that saves America from turning into a cyberpunk dystopia run by ruthless tech oligarchs... is 4chan... I’m gonna laugh because I truly did not see that coming. 😀

Really interesting though, liberals jumping in and saying “oh yeah! So what it ten thousand  dead people voted in Detroit, that’s not enough! Biden still wins!” Because obviously these particular dead people are the only fraud and everything else is squeaky clean.

Sure, in every other aspect of life we recognize that humans regularly lie, cheat, and steal and we prepare accordingly. But if you suggest there is voter fraud liberals get all HOW DARE YOU INSULT THE SANCTITY OF OUR PURE ELECTIONS?!? and then the GOP is such chickenshits they agree with that and say sure, keep that box of ballots you found behind the TacoBell after the polls close that are just enough to beat us, because we’d hate to lose undignified.

Meanwhile the DNC is gleefully having 120 year olds vote in Detroit. And liberals are all like, that’s perfectly normal and not at all suspicious HOW DARE YOU FASCIST VOTER SUPPRESSION.

Most of the people who argued with me today, the excuse making and gas lighting was just pathetic. I would respect these people a lot more if they were just honest and said they are cool with voter fraud because it helps their team.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on November 06, 2020, 01:22:30 AM
One problem with the version of ranked voting you're describing is a lot of people think the candidate with the most public support should win, not someone who gets the edge because they're the second choice.
Sure, but if you have 10 candidates, 9 of them get 9.9% of the vote and 1 of them gets get 10.9%, is that really the candidate with the "most support"? Technically, yes, but... many people might say, "If I'd known my guy wasn't getting in, and losing just by 1%... I wouldn't have voted for that guy..."

You can think of preferential as rounds of voting where the lowest-placed person is excluded - but only the people who voted for that person get to vote again. Many countries do rounds of voting, especially for Presidential positions, but of course with a secret ballot everyone gets a second, third, etc vote, not just those who voted for the loser. Preferential voting allows those who voted for the least-popular candidate to still have a say without compromising the secrecy of the ballot. "Okay, if you can't have this guy, who would you choose?"

As I said, preferential voting reduces polarisation because the major parties have to take on some of the policies of the minor parties to get their support. In the US, the Democrats would probably take on more Green policies, and the Republicans more Libertarian policies, but each would at least try to not completely alienate those minor parties. Parties would be less polarised, and more inclusive of "middle of the road" policies.

As well, with first-past-the-post, the support for minor parties will always be small. Since they've no chance of getting in, their support will be limited to the idealistic or extremely disillusioned. "Yeah he won't get in, but fuck you." With preferential voting you still have your 2nd, etc choice, which allows you to say, "Fuck you, but -" And so we find in Australia that third party votes hover between 10-25% of the primary vote overall. The amount varies - if it's 10% the major parties tend to ignore them, but because they ignore them their support gradually increases to 25% or so, and 1-2 even get into some parliaments (our state parliament has 3 Greens and 3 independents out of 88 lower house members), and then they start listening again - but by this time those minor parties are better-established, so... again, less polarisation.

With less polarisation, there would be less motivation for electoral fraud, and at the same time less motivation for alleging electoral fraud.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 06, 2020, 01:52:47 AM
I don't think you could get compulsory voting happening in the US. But you could get preferential voting, and some independent electoral commissions.

Just think: with preferential voting, the Libertarian Party would determine the current US Presidential election :D That's one way to move the Overton Window!
I've been doubtful about a positive effect of compulsory voting, but I see some merit in your point that it would reduce the urge to make up partisan stories of doom to get people to the polls - so it could reduce the partisan divide. I agree that it likely won't happen in the U.S. But I do see a future in ranked choice voting - which has been implemented in Maine at present.

https://qz.com/1920978/does-compulsory-voting-hurt-or-benefit-democracy/

I'm not quite clear on how independent election commissions get instituted, but I agree it seems like a good idea. I get that they have an independent budget so they're not dependent on the legislative branch, but how do members get appointed?

Regarding specific claims of fraud, I'd like to see evidence of some sort.

I can tell you all - where I come from, the dead always come out to vote. 2018, it was a by a margin of 1.102:1.00 meaning, twice as many people voted as there are legally registered voters. And, it's a sanctuary city. And we've had the same mayor for over 23 years. Last person to run against him was FORCED out of town. As was most of our old retired police officers AND veterans. Isn't much to do except wait to see if they do to me what they did to the last guy to try and expose them. I always wanted to meet the death squads of the USA. I wonder how many of them were former Delta...)
So, what city is this? Can you give some names or sources for this happening?


Again, Larry Correia reporting live from the front lines:
Quote
Fascinating stuff on Twitter tonight. Apparently somebody gathered a giant list of dead people for Wisconsin and Michigan, and crowd sourced a hunt through the voting records to see how many dead people registered and voted. And then people began to plug them into the state websites. Many were registered but didn’t vote, but many others did vote in 2020. (Joe Biden is so popular that even being dead can’t stop the Joementum!)

When people found dead voters they would post the names and birth dates (many of them 100 years ago) so that others could confirm them for themselves. Now I’m not saying these are all accurate and I have no idea how many there will be, but you can check those yourselves.

So he says you can check them for yourselves - but there isn't any specific information included to check. There's just the claim that "Someone said it on Twitter" - which I don't consider to be proof of anything.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 06, 2020, 01:58:55 AM
One problem with the version of ranked voting you're describing is a lot of people think the candidate with the most public support should win, not someone who gets the edge because they're the second choice.
Sure, but if you have 10 candidates, 9 of them get 9.9% of the vote and 1 of them gets get 10.9%, is that really the candidate with the "most support"? Technically, yes, but... many people might say, "If I'd known my guy wasn't getting in, and losing just by 1%... I wouldn't have voted for that guy..."

You can think of preferential as rounds of voting where the lowest-placed person is excluded - but only the people who voted for that person get to vote again. Many countries do rounds of voting, especially for Presidential positions, but of course with a secret ballot everyone gets a second, third, etc vote, not just those who voted for the loser. Preferential voting allows those who voted for the least-popular candidate to still have a say without compromising the secrecy of the ballot. "Okay, if you can't have this guy, who would you choose?"

As I said, preferential voting reduces polarisation because the major parties have to take on some of the policies of the minor parties to get their support. In the US, the Democrats would probably take on more Green policies, and the Republicans more Libertarian policies, but each would at least try to not completely alienate those minor parties. Parties would be less polarised, and more inclusive of "middle of the road" policies.

As well, with first-past-the-post, the support for minor parties will always be small. Since they've no chance of getting in, their support will be limited to the idealistic or extremely disillusioned. "Yeah he won't get in, but fuck you." With preferential voting you still have your 2nd, etc choice, which allows you to say, "Fuck you, but -" And so we find in Australia that third party votes hover between 10-25% of the primary vote overall. The amount varies - if it's 10% the major parties tend to ignore them, but because they ignore them their support gradually increases to 25% or so, and 1-2 even get into some parliaments (our state parliament has 3 Greens and 3 independents out of 88 lower house members), and then they start listening again - but by this time those minor parties are better-established, so... again, less polarisation.

With less polarisation, there would be less motivation for electoral fraud, and at the same time less motivation for alleging electoral fraud.
Sorry, you may have forgotten, but in the United States the people do NOT vote for candidates DIRECTLY. They vote for the states' ELECTORS. So, everything you just said would never work. It would just lead to even GREATER FRAUD! We are a REPUBLIC, not a democracy:
https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college/provisions
Quote
Twelfth Amendment

The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 06, 2020, 02:21:30 AM
As I said, preferential voting reduces polarisation because the major parties have to take on some of the policies of the minor parties to get their support. In the US, the Democrats would probably take on more Green policies, and the Republicans more Libertarian policies, but each would at least try to not completely alienate those minor parties. Parties would be less polarised, and more inclusive of "middle of the road" policies.
Sorry, you may have forgotten, but in the United States the people do NOT vote for candidates DIRECTLY. They vote for the states' ELECTORS. So, everything you just said would never work. It would just lead to even GREATER FRAUD! We are a REPUBLIC, not a democracy:
https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college/provisions
consolcwby, the winner is ultimately determined by the states' electors, but people still vote for a specific presidential candidate. When you vote, you see that the choices listed on your ballot for president are not electors, but rather candidates for president - including independent and third-party candidates. Voters can even put on write-in candidates. The electors might not follow the popular vote - but people's votes are still for the actual candidates, not which electors get to vote.

States can and have implemented laws that specify how voters choices go. Maine has now implemented ranked-choice voting, which was used in the 2020 General Elections. Here are some articles about it:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/maine-becomes-first-state-to-use-ranked-choice-voting-in-a-presidential-election-11604062812
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Maine
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on November 06, 2020, 04:38:20 AM
consolcwby must not have voted before or he'd know what a Presidential ballot paper looks like.

Plus, I'm talking about more than just Presidential elections. I know that's the focus right now because of the neck-and-neck race, but you've got counties and sheriffs and state lower and upper houses and mayors and so on and so forth. It's possible to have one system for one of those and another for others (our upper houses do this weird proportional thing...)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on November 06, 2020, 04:51:06 AM
I'm not quite clear on how independent election commissions get instituted, but I agree it seems like a good idea. I get that they have an independent budget so they're not dependent on the legislative branch, but how do members get appointed?
Officially the Commissioner and deputies etc (https://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/structure.htm) are appointed by the Governor General, but "with the advice of" the federal Cabinet. It's commonly a former justice, senior cop, that sort of person, sometimes military. In other words, you make one institution impartial by topping it up with people from other impartial institutions.

There are endless committees and so on appointed to redraw electoral boundaries and all that. As for their funding, it's the same as many government departments. Basically they just give everyone a salary and then leave them to it.

I think there's a certain foresight in it, rather than integrity. We know from the history of Queensland which engaged in insane gerrymandering so that the boss could get in with 20% of the vote - still eventually he got knocked over, and then things were cleaned up. So if your party fucks with things it eventually comes back to bite you, and the other guys may turn it around and fuck you badly, too. Political mutually assured destruction.

This foresight seems to be absent in the US parties at federal level. Like, if you stack the Supreme Court with extra guys to swing it your way, what's your successor going to do? In 50 years the Supreme Court would be bigger than Congress. It's more sensible to just not fuck with things and then, you know, try to get people to vote for you based on your actual policies and results.

Now this was interesting, even 28% of LGBT/etc voted for old Drumf.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/exit-polls-president.html
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 06, 2020, 10:13:17 AM
I think there's a certain foresight in it, rather than integrity. We know from the history of Queensland which engaged in insane gerrymandering so that the boss could get in with 20% of the vote - still eventually he got knocked over, and then things were cleaned up. So if your party fucks with things it eventually comes back to bite you, and the other guys may turn it around and fuck you badly, too. Political mutually assured destruction.
That sounds like it's more about culture/traditions, than the institutions themselves. Which wouldn't work in the US right now, because the two parties keep launching waves of mutually assured destruction. One of them was even called the "nuclear option", back when it was triggered -- that was the 2011 change by Harry Reid (D), which got rid of procedural rules in the Senate that allowed the minority party to hold up appointments and bills, and thus forced some degree of comity or consensus. Which recently bit the Democrats in the ass, because it's that rule change that allowed the Republicans to push through the Supreme Court nomination of Amy Coney Barrett without any Democratic support. And it's only escalating, for example with all the talk about court-packing.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 06, 2020, 10:31:52 AM
Now this was interesting, even 28% of LGBT/etc voted for old Drumf.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/exit-polls-president.html
One of the biggest takeaways in this election is Trump was up in almost every demographic, except white men. He did better among LGBT+ voters, among women voters, among black voters, and among hispanic voters -- Zapata County in Texas flipped from 66% voting for Hillary in 2016 to almost the same number voting for Trump, this year. Overall, the Rio Grande Valley shifted 10 points toward Trump. Similar gains among hispanics in southern Florida, and not just among those of Cuban descent. That helps explain why the Republicans are gaining seats in the House and holding steady in the Senate -- even if Biden ends up winning, it was Trump not Biden who helped the candidates down the ticket.

This isn't a huge flip in absolute terms, just a few percentage points. But since Republicans have traditionally done so poorly among those groups, the relative gains are large. The blue stranglehold on most of those demographics seems to be gradually eroding.

https://news.kointopic.com/2020/11/05/donald-trump-made-gains-in-every-demographic-except-for-white-men/
https://www.statesman.com/opinion/20201105/first-reading-why-it-was-viva-trump-in-zapata-county
https://hotair.com/archives/karen-townsend/2020/11/05/al-sharpton-admits-trump-well-black-hispanic-voters-appealed-minorities/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 06, 2020, 11:17:53 AM
There is so much rampant fraud going on right now that the only way you could possibly believe otherwise is if you're a fucking moron or so mesmerized by the left that you think they couldn't possibly cheat because they're paragons of virtue (go back to "fucking moron" comment).

Trump is litigating this bullshit, so hopefully there are massive recounts and all these fake ballots thrown out. If not, bring on the boogaloo.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RandyB on November 06, 2020, 11:30:51 AM
There is so much rampant fraud going on right now that the only way you could possibly believe otherwise is if you're a fucking moron or so mesmerized by the left that you think they couldn't possibly cheat because they're paragons of virtue (go back to "fucking moron" comment).

Trump is litigating this bullshit, so hopefully there are massive recounts and all these fake ballots thrown out. If not, bring on the boogaloo.

You left out a third option: fellow traveler of the perpetrators and intentionally trying to gaslight as many people as possible.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 06, 2020, 11:33:18 AM
So he says you can check them for yourselves - but there isn't any specific information included to check. There's just the claim that "Someone said it on Twitter" - which I don't consider to be proof of anything.

I'll let him answer this one.

Again folks, Larry Correia.

Quote
It is kind of amazing how the same dishonest shitheads who kept repeating debunked things like the Very Fine People narrative for four years, can now dismiss giant articles chronicling 10 examples of potential voter fraud because one of them kinda gets a plausible explanation several hours after I wrote the article. Ergo, the other 9 cease to exist and HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE THAT HUMAN BEINGS EVER DO ANYTHING DISHONEST!

It's amazing how that works.

After a few days of debating this I'm pretty sure that everybody believes fraud happened. Only one side has to ignore human nature and history to pretend that fraud couldn't possibly have happened. Except they know it too. They  just don't want to come out and admit they're okay with fraud because of team sports.

Ironically, these are the same people who are so fundamentally dishonest that they'll believe anything about the other team, regardless of how little evidence there is.

I've noticed that most of my liberal friends who I consider to be honest people with integrity haven't said much on this subject. They'll be glad if Trump is gone because that benefits their interests, and that's fine. I respect that. However I'm not seeing any of them comment on the process, because this clusterfuck of an election is pretty much indefensible.

But the dishonest little shits? Oh man. It can practically rain statistical miracles and they'll look you in the eye and claim that's totally normal.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 06, 2020, 11:53:18 AM
You left out a third option: fellow traveler of the perpetrators and intentionally trying to gaslight as many people as possible.

Good catch. There are several posters on here that are revealing themselves to be either really, really stupid or outright shills for the CCP. There's no other explanation.

I'll let him answer this one.

So what you're saying is leftists believe anything with zero evidence if it fits a narrative they like, and no amount of evidence could possibly make them believe anything to the contrary. It's times like these that make me remember why I hated Hegel so much, and  also all the rubes in grad school who were hugging his nuts. Pathetic.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 06, 2020, 12:12:29 PM
So he says you can check them for yourselves - but there isn't any specific information included to check. There's just the claim that "Someone said it on Twitter" - which I don't consider to be proof of anything.
I'll let him answer this one.

Again folks, Larry Correia.

Quote
It is kind of amazing how the same dishonest shitheads who kept repeating debunked things like the Very Fine People narrative for four years, can now dismiss giant articles chronicling 10 examples of potential voter fraud because one of them kinda gets a plausible explanation several hours after I wrote the article. Ergo, the other 9 cease to exist and HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE THAT HUMAN BEINGS EVER DO ANYTHING DISHONEST!

It's amazing how that works.

After a few days of debating this I'm pretty sure that everybody believes fraud happened. Only one side has to ignore human nature and history to pretend that fraud couldn't possibly have happened. Except they know it too. They  just don't want to come out and admit they're okay with fraud because of team sports.

Ironically, these are the same people who are so fundamentally dishonest that they'll believe anything about the other team, regardless of how little evidence there is.

I've noticed that most of my liberal friends who I consider to be honest people with integrity haven't said much on this subject. They'll be glad if Trump is gone because that benefits their interests, and that's fine. I respect that. However I'm not seeing any of them comment on the process, because this clusterfuck of an election is pretty much indefensible.

But the dishonest little shits? Oh man. It can practically rain statistical miracles and they'll look you in the eye and claim that's totally normal.

This is a naked ad-hominem. I believe that fraud may well have occurred - there have been hundreds of documented cases of fraud in past elections, after all.

But I'm asking for specific evidence before I'll believe any particular claim of fraud.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 06, 2020, 12:15:14 PM
A good statistical breakdown of the registration and voting numbers which are just a few reasons why people are saying that there is rampant fraud going on.

https://redstate.com/scotthounsell/2020/11/05/excuse-me-while-i-call-bs-n275572?fbclid=IwAR0YBBaMD2MlfMCl8C0teK2BzFfsDmgHGNAr7pX-fdkOAikQBzporVVwN8M
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 06, 2020, 12:30:59 PM
A good statistical breakdown of the registration and voting numbers which are just a few reasons why people are saying that there is rampant fraud going on.

https://redstate.com/scotthounsell/2020/11/05/excuse-me-while-i-call-bs-n275572?fbclid=IwAR0YBBaMD2MlfMCl8C0teK2BzFfsDmgHGNAr7pX-fdkOAikQBzporVVwN8M
Thanks, jeff. This is at least some specific claims. However, from the article, Hounsell at least gives specific states and numbers, but he doesn't explain the sources for those numbers. He says he's using adjusted polling data - but polls vary in their numbers and reliability. For example, here is his first claim.

Quote from: Scott Hounsell
In all of the polling data (*when adjusted), it told us Trump was going to win by larger margins among minority voters.  The numbers literally don’t lie.  In North Carolina, Democrats lost 161,000 voters since 2016 while Republicans gained 72,000 voters.  You want us to believe that Republicans, who have registered as such since the Trump era, walked into the voting booth on Election day and pulled the trigger for Biden?  In that state, Trump currently leads by 77,000 votes, in a state Trump won by 173,000 votes in 2016, and that Republicans picked up a 230k voter margin since?  I call BS.

There is an asterisk by saying "when adjusted", which seems to indicate a footnote, but there isn't any footnote that I could see. What polls is he using to get these numbers, and what were the adjustments?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 06, 2020, 01:03:42 PM
Looks like reality is starting to sink in. Fox News is starting to admit Biden won. Rush Limbaugh admits Biden won. Internals from the Trump administration are saying the hard evidence of fraud is "not looking good" and their legal challenges are no longer looking promising as even their best case scenarios are not adding up to enough votes to change the result of the election. Their dusting off plans for Trump to start his own television news network. Quotes of "there will be a peaceful transition of power" from Trump officials.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 06, 2020, 01:07:11 PM
Looks like reality is starting to sink in. Fox News is starting to admit Biden won. Rush Limbaugh admits Biden won. Internals from the Trump administration are saying the hard evidence of fraud is "not looking good" and their legal challenges are no longer looking promising as even their best case scenarios are not adding up to enough votes to change the result of the election. Their dusting off plans for Trump to start his own television news network. Quotes of "there will be a peaceful transition of power" from Trump officials.

All you have is FUD anymore. Starting to admit is  not the act of admitting.

https://www.newsweek.com/rush-limbaugh-walks-back-his-comments-after-accusations-he-said-biden-won-election-1545565

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 06, 2020, 01:08:55 PM
The libs are singing victory too soon, and vice versa for conservatives.

Look, the margins are razor thin in Arizona, Georgia and Pennsylvania. Arizona is probably going to flip to the president; that's the trend. With the others, who knows. A lot of the incoming ballots are from the military and most of those historically go for the president.

It's a hotly contested election, as we all should've known it would be. The Bernie fans didn't stay home this time even though Biden sucks, so you had to account for that. Even with that, nothing is sure for Biden.

It's a rough scrap, and I still think Trump will surprise everyone.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 06, 2020, 01:21:00 PM
The libs are singing victory too soon, and vice versa for conservatives.

Look, the margins are razor thin in Arizona, Georgia and Pennsylvania. Arizona is probably going to flip to the president; that's the trend. With the others, who knows. A lot of the incoming ballots are from the military and most of those historically go for the president.

It's a hotly contested election, as we all should've known it would be. The Bernie fans didn't stay home this time even though Biden sucks, so you had to account for that. Even with that, nothing is sure for Biden.

It's a rough scrap, and I still think Trump will surprise everyone.

The thing is, the margin in Pennsylvania isn't going to be that close. It's rapidly falling outside the recount level. And Pennsylvania is all Biden needs to win. Even if you add up all the evidence of "fraud" allegations in Pennsylvania, it's nothing close to the numbers needed to change that result to be in Trumps favor overall there.

Arizona, I have no idea. You can thank Trump insulting John McCain for years, including after his death, for his loss there if he does lose because that was an idiotic strategy.

Georgia, looks very likely Biden but we won't know until the last of the overseas ballots are counted and the questionable ballots are dealt with. Ironically, Trump will almost certainly be demanding the questionable ballots and late-arriving ballots in Georgia BE counted, because he wouldn't be able to win without them.

But really, I think he's toast because of Pennsylvania. I don't think there is the margin for victory there. The administration, internally, appears to see that. The mood inside the Whitehouse appears to have changed dramatically overnight. They are no longer optimistic. They are seeing the numbers play out, and the fraud allegations were only a backstop if it was one or two states, and if the count was closer. It's just not going to be close enough, and not going to be in a small enough number of states, for the lawsuits to make a difference in the overall result.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 06, 2020, 01:34:32 PM
Bwahahahahaha it's not fucking "well known" at all.

Pew Research - Trump had 87% approval among Republicans in August 2020
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/24/trumps-approval-ratings-so-far-are-unusually-stable-and-deeply-partisan/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/24/trumps-approval-ratings-so-far-are-unusually-stable-and-deeply-partisan/)

Also, you're proving my point about the anomaly. How is Biden both the MOST POPULAR candidate for President in history yet unable to win down ticket races for his party? 

1) Many Republicans left the part to be independents. Count myself as one of them. I've been a registered Republican since 1987. I changed my party affiliation in California to No Party Preference.
2) 13% of Republicans is more than enough than needed to elect Biden but still elect Republicans in the House and Senate races, in close races. Trump is losing by a percent or two in some states. Meanwhile Republicans in the House and Senate races in states are often winning by a percentage or two. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE. That's the "Never Trump" vote.

Though I have not called myself a Never-Trumper. If Sanders or Warren had been the nominee my vote would have been different this time. But Biden was in my top three of choices for "OK I can hold my nose and vote that way". I think a lot of Republicans are in the same boat. And by "a lot" I mean roughly 20%, or 1 in 5. Many, like myself, went independent. Others remained Republicans but are in that 13% who do not support Trump.

And we made the difference this election. We got the Republicans to (it looks like) retain the Senate, and increase their representatives in the House. And we will help get the Republicans to win back the House next election. You don't need to support Trump, to support the Republican party and conservative ideology. Trump's platform was never particularly "conservative" anyway in my view. His constant attacks on McCain and Romney, the last two nominees from the party prior to him, demonstrates he was not particularly in line with the party to begin with. He's nothing like either W. Bush or Bush Sr. for that matter either.

And you can insult us all you want, but you're going to need our support to fight against Social Justice Warriors promoting progressive agendas. You're going to need every ally you can find.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on November 06, 2020, 01:49:08 PM
Trump's platform was never particularly "conservative" anyway in my view.

That's kinda why I can stomach him, honestly. Unfortunately, I can't vote in the general from where I live. My preference would have been Tulsi Gabbard, though. But Trump vs Biden I would've voted for Trump if I could (not that it would matter much, since I suspect most people in PR would vote Democrat if this was a state).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 06, 2020, 01:50:52 PM
 Biden on path to win 306 Electoral College votes, same as Trump's 'landslide' victory in 2016. (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/biden-on-path-to-win-306-electoral-college-votes-same-as-trumps-landslide-victory-in-2016)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 06, 2020, 02:20:59 PM
All you have is FUD anymore. Starting to admit is  not the act of admitting.

FUD and MSM lies is how Biden will "win" the election, not through any actual sort of legitimate vote count. Trump has enough litigation going now that this thing is going to drag out and probably be decided by the Supreme Court. Anyone who says otherwise is just drinking the Kool-Aid.

I particularly like how the MSM is trying to gaslight everyone into thinking it's all over, and there are no open investigations into voter fraud. Almost like they're complicit...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 06, 2020, 02:38:10 PM
FUD and MSM lies is how Biden will "win" the election, not through any actual sort of legitimate vote count. Trump has enough litigation going now that this thing is going to drag out and probably be decided by the Supreme Court. Anyone who says otherwise is just drinking the Kool-Aid.

I particularly like how the MSM is trying to gaslight everyone into thinking it's all over, and there are no open investigations into voter fraud. Almost like they're complicit...
Well, at least that's a concrete prediction that will be confirmed or not within a month or so. It's possible that something related to the election will reach the Supreme Court, but I don't foresee a case like Florida in 2000 where the Supreme Court decides on the election result. I'm fine to wait and see what happens.

Also, Brad, you had a previous claim that 90% turnout among registered voters was ludicrous, but you never answered about my clarification. Could I ask again? It seems to me that 90% among registered voters is normal, not ludicrous.

Debunked by Polifact and Snopes. Someone was comparing 2020 vote totals to 2018 registration; the total registered before the 2020 election was higher than the votes, and Wisconsin allows registration at the polling place.
Even using the "reported" numbers, that's still like a 90% turnout...which is fucking ludicrous if you know anything about elections.

Brad, I think you may be confusing turnout among *eligible* voters and turnout among *registered* voters. For example, in 2016, there were 157 million registered voters and 137 million votes. That's 87%. An individual swing state with 90% is not at all ludicrous.

The more commonly reported number is turnout among *eligible* voters. For example, nationally there were 231 million eligible voters in 2016, which is a turnout of 59%. A turnout of 90% among *eligible* voters would be suspicious, I agree. But that's not the case here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 06, 2020, 02:46:32 PM
All you have is FUD anymore. Starting to admit is  not the act of admitting.

FUD and MSM lies is how Biden will "win" the election, not through any actual sort of legitimate vote count. Trump has enough litigation going now that this thing is going to drag out and probably be decided by the Supreme Court. Anyone who says otherwise is just drinking the Kool-Aid.

I particularly like how the MSM is trying to gaslight everyone into thinking it's all over, and there are no open investigations into voter fraud. Almost like they're complicit...

Anyone who says otherwise is simply better at mathematics than you.

If you max out the allegations of fraud with any evidence, and just assume all those votes are Trump votes (which of course they are not), it does not add up to enough to change the result.

That's what the White House realized last night. It's what an overwhelming majority of the nation will realize in a matter of a couple weeks.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on November 06, 2020, 02:48:34 PM
Some outlets are calling this for Biden.  It looks like there was some fuckery in PA.  Let’s see if Biden wins GA, AZ or NV.  At that point Trump really has nothing. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 06, 2020, 02:50:01 PM
Some outlets are calling this for Biden.  It looks like there was some fuckery in PA.  Let’s see if Biden wins GA, AZ or NV.  At that point Trump really has nothing.

The problem is the "allegations of fuckery in Pennsylvania" are over less than a couple thousand votes. Biden's margin is so much larger than that in Pennsylvania that they're like Bob Dornan's old claims of fraud in the election he lost. They will get a "So...you think you lost by slightly less than you lost by?"
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 06, 2020, 02:53:31 PM
Greetings!

It is boggling to think this country will swallow the fucking Marxists defrauding the election to gain power and overthrow our Republic. Biden and Kamala? The idea that this election would be close is absurd.

The country wants to be on their knees and plough-fucked in the ass by Marxism, and have their guns taken away so they can be defenseless sheep, sucking down more globalist, cock-sucking Liberal jello.

Fucking pathetic.

This country had better wake the fuck up and fight against the goddamned Marxist takeover of our nation or we are fucked into oblivion. Fuck all the whiny, cock-sucking Liberal Marxist sheep. There won't be another election, for all the mushy middle "reasonable" sheep. If the country can't keep a ticket like Biden and Harris from siezing power, what fucking hope would the country have against an actually stronger, slicker, more competent, and glossier Marxist ticket, like, oh, AOC? This country is going to fucking burn. This is the 11th hour, and the barbarians are at te gates. America is on the edge of plunging into the abyss.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on November 06, 2020, 02:55:32 PM
The problem is the "allegations of fuckery in Pennsylvania" are over less than a couple thousand votes. Biden's margin is so much larger than that in Pennsylvania that they're like Bob Dornan's old claims of fraud in the election he lost. They will get a "So...you think you lost by slightly less than you lost by?"
I’m not saying it really makes any difference but some of the actions in PA looked like a resistance to transparency.  Fueling the tin foil hattery we’ve been hearing.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 06, 2020, 02:58:22 PM
https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/trey-trainor-fec-trump-2020-election/2020/11/06/id/995772/

"Chair of the Federal Election Commission Trey Trainor believes voter fraud is taking place in states still counting ballots."

https://twitter.com/i/status/1324793898724720646

Not responding to CCP shills, just gonna post this stuff so people who aren't gaslighting/fucking retarded have a chance to make their own decision.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 06, 2020, 02:58:50 PM
Greetings!

It is boggling to think this country will swallow the fucking Marxists defrauding the election to gain power and overthrow our Republic. Biden and Kamala? The idea that this election would be close is absurd.

The country wants to be on their knees and plough-fucked in the ass by Marxism, and have their guns taken away so they can be defenseless sheep, sucking down more globalist, cock-sucking Liberal jello.

Fucking pathetic.

This country had better wake the fuck up and fight against the goddamned Marxist takeover of our nation or we are fucked into oblivion. Fuck all the whiny, cock-sucking Liberal Marxist sheep. There won't be another election, for all the mushy middle "reasonable" sheep. If the country can't keep a ticket like Biden and Harris from siezing power, what fucking hope would the country have against an actually stronger, slicker, more competent, and glossier Marxist ticket, like, oh, AOC? This country is going to fucking burn. This is the 11th hour, and the barbarians are at te gates. America is on the edge of plunging into the abyss.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I recognize a marxist when I see one. My brother is a marxist.

I've watched Biden as a Senator, and his campaigns for President, all my life. Biden is no marxist. Biden is a bog-standard pro-union Democrat. He isn't a social justice warrior and barely tolerates that wing of his party. He isn't a marxist and barely tolerates the AOC's of his party. Biden isn't a barbarian at the gate - he's the same bog standard Democrat that has run for President for your entire adult life.

But it's the internet. And so hyperbole reigns supreme. So we get allegations of the world ending. And in four years when the world has not ended and there is another election, I am sure you and others will again make the claim that the world is about to end if he wins reelection. Despite the fact that nothing much happened for the four prior years with Biden as President which would suggest the world would end.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 06, 2020, 03:01:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By7yNZsa8x0

"There is no election fraud in PA!"
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 06, 2020, 03:04:47 PM
I sense butthurt.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 06, 2020, 03:05:27 PM
You have to be rather unhinged to call Biden a marxist. No, Biden will fuck us in the ass by bringing back TPP and opening the floods of outsourcing once more.

All the people who wanted free shit (Berniebros) are in for a rude awakening because we are back to corporatist bullshit if senile Joe wins. They should have voted for Trump, but to them making sure you respect snowflake pronouns is more important than making a living. They may still survive their stupidity if the remaining votes trend Trump. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 06, 2020, 03:09:21 PM
I recognize a marxist when I see one. My brother is a marxist.

I've watched Biden as a Senator, and his campaigns for President, all my life. Biden is no marxist. Biden is a bog-standard pro-union Democrat. He isn't a social justice warrior and barely tolerates that wing of his party. He isn't a marxist and barely tolerates the AOC's of his party. Biden isn't a barbarian at the gate - he's the same bog standard Democrat that has run for President for your entire adult life.

But it's the internet. And so hyperbole reigns supreme. So we get allegations of the world ending. And in four years when the world has not ended and there is another election, I am sure you and others will again make the claim that the world is about to end if he wins reelection. Despite the fact that nothing much happened for the four prior years with Biden as President which would suggest the world would end.

Yup. It is amazing how unhinged conservatives get with their fear of Marxism, seeing it even in the most corporate/liberal/warhawkish politicians like Biden.

People also don't understand the difference between Marxist ideas as they pertain to economics, and wokist ideology, which is a more recent development. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on November 06, 2020, 03:12:47 PM
I recognize a marxist when I see one. My brother is a marxist.

I've watched Biden as a Senator, and his campaigns for President, all my life. Biden is no marxist. Biden is a bog-standard pro-union Democrat. He isn't a social justice warrior and barely tolerates that wing of his party. He isn't a marxist and barely tolerates the AOC's of his party. Biden isn't a barbarian at the gate - he's the same bog standard Democrat that has run for President for your entire adult life.

But it's the internet. And so hyperbole reigns supreme. So we get allegations of the world ending. And in four years when the world has not ended and there is another election, I am sure you and others will again make the claim that the world is about to end if he wins reelection. Despite the fact that nothing much happened for the four prior years with Biden as President which would suggest the world would end.

EDIT:  To your second point most people don't get the difference between the two.  My dad's an old school card carrying Trotskyite whereas my cousin is a graduate in Critical Theory.  They both think each other's politics is crap but from my point of view they both look the same just with Class versus Race as the dividing line.

Yup. It is amazing how unhinged conservatives get with their fear of Marxism, seeing it even in the most corporate/liberal/warhawkish politicians like Biden.

People also don't understand the difference between Marxist ideas as they pertain to economics, and wokist ideology, which is a more recent development.

It's not about Biden being a Marxist.  He's pretty clearly your standard Kleptocrat.  The issue is the struggle going on in the Democrat party between the actual Marxists and the Centrists.  See the freakout in the caucus call for an example of that.  We just don't know who's going to be pulling Biden's strings right now because he's pretty clearly not all there anymore.

Honestly a strong move back to Corporatist pillaging and neo-feudalism is not such a great path either.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 06, 2020, 03:13:53 PM
Marxist, or not he is a paid shill for China.  Lives will be ruined because of Biden which that would had been prevented if they just stuck to Trump.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 06, 2020, 03:20:09 PM
Marxist, or not he is a paid shill for China.  Lives will be ruined because of Biden which that would had been prevented if they just stuck to Trump.

I agree that Biden isn't a Marxist, but he certainly is a paid crony for China, that's indisputable by anyone who isn't a fucking moron but we've already seen how many there are posting in this thread, so whatever. I doubt Biden even knows his own name half the time at this point, he's just a vessel to install the actual Marxists, aka AOC, Harris, etc.

That said, I find it amusing that no matter how many incidences of fraud are shown, the goalposts move further and further away...sorry, shills, this isn't going to be over anytime soon.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 06, 2020, 03:27:35 PM
It's not about Biden being a Marxist.  He's pretty clearly your standard Kleptocrat.  The issue is the struggle going on in the Democrat party between the actual Marxists and the Centrists.  See the freakout in the caucus call for an example of that.  We just don't know who's going to be pulling Biden's strings right now because he's pretty clearly not all there anymore.

Honestly a strong move back to Corporatist pillaging and neo-feudalism is not such a great path either.

I think its pretty clear that Biden is an establishment candidate, through and through, which means his strings will be pulled by CEOs and Wall Street and neo-liberalism in general. He's going to serve the same old neo-liberal agenda and give only surface level lip-service to progressives, which means that progressives have to pressure him and continue to work on down-ballot positions.

What you call "actual Marxists" are what others call progressives, and incorporate elements of socialism, but not in the scary Stalinist way Fox drones imagine. Right-wingers confuse and conflate Stalinist USSR with Medicare for All, mainly due to ignorance - because they get their "info" from Fox et al. I'm guessing they think that Western Europe, Canada, Japan, and every other country that has socialized health care are "Marxists."

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on November 06, 2020, 03:30:10 PM
Right.  I would like to not lose my life savings if I develop a serious illness.  We are there with only a few industrialized nations that don’t have a fair medical system.  Nobody with a brain is asking for all that other commie shit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 06, 2020, 03:30:29 PM
Some anonymous video from a nobody constitutes proof now? How is that any better than being put on trial on mere allegations of sexual misconduct?  LOL

once again proving y'all just another side of the same hysterical coin.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 06, 2020, 03:33:54 PM
Some anonymous video from a nobody constitutes proof now? How is that any better than being put on trial on mere allegations of sexual misconduct?  LOL

once again proving y'all just another side of the same hysterical coin.

But he's got a voice disguiser! That makes it legit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 06, 2020, 03:35:59 PM
So now Michigan GOP chair and chair of the FEC are "anonymous people".

Guess we'll throw those posters into the "fucking moron" crowd as well.

Also, "a 'whistleblower' familiar with the matter overheard a conversation that someone else had that implicates Trump in something!" = 100% PROOF
An actual whistleblower on camera = nothingburger

You clowns are laughably retarded.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 06, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
Gee, Ronna won't even produce evidence. All she has is allegations.

And if you mean Weintraub when you mention the FEC as if it's backing Trump, you've got shit for brains. Better log off and save yourself some more embarrassment.

Quote
Also, "a 'whistleblower' familiar with the matter overheard a conversation that someone else had that implicates Trump in something!" = 100% PROOF
An actual whistleblower on camera = nothingburger

LOL, so because SJW idiots do that, you're going to show your own idiocy by doing the same. Oh wow, that makes total sense!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 06, 2020, 03:47:02 PM
But it is an INSIDER. It says so. And best of all, it is Project Veritas. How legit can you get?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 06, 2020, 04:00:36 PM
sorry, shills, this isn't going to be over anytime soon.
Thank goodness for that; way too many comedies die off too quickly.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 06, 2020, 04:02:32 PM
Marxist, or not he is a paid shill for China.  Lives will be ruined because of Biden which that would had been prevented if they just stuck to Trump.

I agree that Biden isn't a Marxist, but he certainly is a paid crony for China, that's indisputable by anyone who isn't a fucking moron but we've already seen how many there are posting in this thread, so whatever. I doubt Biden even knows his own name half the time at this point, he's just a vessel to install the actual Marxists, aka AOC, Harris, etc.

That said, I find it amusing that no matter how many incidences of fraud are shown, the goalposts move further and further away...sorry, shills, this isn't going to be over anytime soon.

I have the same goalpost I have always had.

Your evidence of fraud must exceed the number of votes you'd need to change the election result.

The sum total of the actual evidence, as opposed to shady anonymous youtube videos from obviously biased sources wearing tinfoil hats with no hard evidence but lots of click-begging, is significantly less than the vote is turning out to be, across so many states.

That's it. That's the line. Show me not fraud, but fraud which amounts to a difference in the election. The rest is just "shit we should fix prior to any future elections" and not in fact a reason to toss out the legit votes which indicate Biden did win.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 06, 2020, 04:04:55 PM
So now Michigan GOP chair and chair of the FEC are "anonymous people".



Neither the Michigan GOP chair, nor the chair of the FEC, have alleged fraud in quantities which would result in Trump winning in Pennsylvania. If you think they have, show me.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 06, 2020, 04:08:13 PM
https://www.inquirer.com/news/voter-fraud-philadelphia-ward-leader-judge-of-elections-domenick-demuro-guilty-plea-20200521.html

From May...SURELY this wouldn't happen again!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 06, 2020, 04:12:16 PM
There’s no point in trying to prove a NeverTrumper wrong

But this assessment of their potency is a fun read

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/sirota-lincoln-project-election-efforts-to-swing-gop-votes-from-trump-epic-failure/ar-BB1aLJWE?ocid=msedgdhp
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 06, 2020, 04:12:55 PM
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/11/05/lawsuit-at-least-21k-dead-people-on-pennsylvania-voter-rolls/

"Look that is just a small amount of fraud! You have to SHOW ME MORE FRAUD!!!!!"
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 06, 2020, 04:21:32 PM
And even more evidence of fraud.....

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1324783531139235841?fbclid=IwAR12FUZ3CUSi2ok-jNRl4tqFFDSue1lsR1MuEnkSImAdLUz7fr22QHwT5X8
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 06, 2020, 04:23:06 PM
And even more evidence of fraud.....

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1324783531139235841?fbclid=IwAR12FUZ3CUSi2ok-jNRl4tqFFDSue1lsR1MuEnkSImAdLUz7fr22QHwT5X8

Already posted that link, but it's only 6k votes or something, not enough to actually change the outcome so it doesn't count.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 06, 2020, 04:29:49 PM
And even more evidence of fraud.....

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1324783531139235841?fbclid=IwAR12FUZ3CUSi2ok-jNRl4tqFFDSue1lsR1MuEnkSImAdLUz7fr22QHwT5X8

Already posted that link, but it's only 6k votes or something, not enough to actually change the outcome so it doesn't count.

Oh, sorry. I was amazed at the fact that 47 counties in MI used that same flawed software.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 06, 2020, 04:29:58 PM
LOL, like there are no cases of Republican election fraud ever. Please bitch.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 06, 2020, 04:33:04 PM
LOL, like there are no cases of Republican election fraud ever. Please bitch.

Took long enough for the, "LOL EVERYONE DOES IT!".

Are you actually Hillary Clinton?

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 06, 2020, 04:33:37 PM
Now, that glitch is worth looking into. Now you're talking something real vs some imagined nefarious plot.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 06, 2020, 04:34:03 PM
https://www.inquirer.com/news/voter-fraud-philadelphia-ward-leader-judge-of-elections-domenick-demuro-guilty-plea-20200521.html

From May...SURELY this wouldn't happen again!

"DeMuro inflated vote totals by adding 27 fraudulent ballots in the primary election, 40 votes in May 2015, and 46 in 2016"

So let's say this same thing happened this time. You need to make up TENS OF THOUSANDS TO POTENTIALLY OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND VOTES. And it's all over the place rather than in just one place. And it's in many states rather than just one state.

There isn't enough evidence of fraud in quantities to show Biden didn't win.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 06, 2020, 04:35:10 PM
lol, how bitchmade. fool talks like democrats are the only ones with a history of cheating and then changes goalposts.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 06, 2020, 04:35:49 PM
And even more evidence of fraud.....

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1324783531139235841?fbclid=IwAR12FUZ3CUSi2ok-jNRl4tqFFDSue1lsR1MuEnkSImAdLUz7fr22QHwT5X8

Already posted that link, but it's only 6k votes or something, not enough to actually change the outcome so it doesn't count.

It counts as an allegation of fraud. It does not count as an allegation of fraud in quantities sufficient to change the result of the election. That's the difference. That's what you need to show: not fraud, but enough fraud to have Trump be the winner. That evidence does not appear to exist. This is math, not emotions.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 06, 2020, 04:43:01 PM
It counts as an allegation of fraud. It does not count as an allegation of fraud in quantities sufficient to change the result of the election. That's the difference. That's what you need to show: not fraud, but enough fraud to have Trump be the winner. That evidence does not appear to exist. This is math, not emotions.


This seems solid enough to really and urgently look into. Seems there is finally some proof of irregularities that may or may not be fraud, but regardless may be significant in the outcome. That's a whole county going to Trump, and they say there are 47. Wouldn't surprise me if this made a difference in who takes the state. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 06, 2020, 04:49:55 PM
Right.  I would like to not lose my life savings if I develop a serious illness.  We are there with only a few industrialized nations that don’t have a fair medical system.  Nobody with a brain is asking for all that other commie shit.

As someone who lives in one of those industrialised countries with a fair medical system, what that means in practice is that you go on a fair waiting list until you get your fair treatment.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 06, 2020, 04:52:10 PM
LOL, like there are no cases of Republican election fraud ever. Please bitch.

The Russians only get a chance to earn their sweet election fraud money every four years, dont take this away from them!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 06, 2020, 04:57:05 PM
The Russians only get a chance to earn their sweet election fraud money every four years, dont take this away from them!

We're WAY past Russians. Apparently they decided not to commit any fraud in this election and, in fact, this is the least fraudulent election in history. How dare you!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 06, 2020, 05:12:55 PM
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/following-repair-technical-glitch-michigan-county-flips-back-trump

Only 46 more counties to check!

"But that's only a gain of about 5500 votes! I NEED YOU TO SHOW ME WIDESPREAD VOTER FRAUD!!!!!!!!"
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 06, 2020, 05:16:15 PM
The Russians only get a chance to earn their sweet election fraud money every four years, dont take this away from them!

We're WAY past Russians. Apparently they decided not to commit any fraud in this election and, in fact, this is the least fraudulent election in history. How dare you!

So hang on, the Russians helped Trump to win last time and this time he asked them to stand back and stand by?

 :-
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 06, 2020, 05:17:18 PM
So hang on, the Russians helped Trump to win last time and this time he asked them to stand back and stand by?

 :-

No, I think what happened is TRUMPBUX ran out so Putin decided to go bear hunting instead.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 06, 2020, 08:17:35 PM
But it is an INSIDER. It says so. And best of all, it is Project Veritas. How legit can you get?

You do you know that Veritas is backed up by the courts?  Seriously they won all of their court cases.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 06, 2020, 08:37:00 PM
But it is an INSIDER. It says so. And best of all, it is Project Veritas. How legit can you get?

You do you know that Veritas is backed up by the courts?  Seriously they won all of their court cases.

Good point actually. Having seen some interviews with them, PV seems to be a pretty legit operation. Their "deceptively edited videos" seem lees deceptive than those of the mainstream media.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 06, 2020, 08:46:02 PM
But it is an INSIDER. It says so. And best of all, it is Project Veritas. How legit can you get?

You do you know that Veritas is backed up by the courts?  Seriously they won all of their court cases.

Good point actually. Having seen some interviews with them, PV seems to be a pretty legit operation. Their "deceptively edited videos" seem lees deceptive than those of the mainstream media.

They have everything to lose if they lie.  Seriously there is no incentive for Project Veritas to lie.  In fact there is every incentive to actually be honest.  Project Veritas survives on its honesty.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 06, 2020, 08:56:49 PM
Turns out a bunch of these "fraud videos" are fakes. That would explain why the White House has not filed suit based on a single one of these youtube and tiktok videos of supposed fraud - they're not real. But, they do make for sweet clicks for the political rags:

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/eric-trump-keeps-falling-for-fake-ballot-hoaxes/

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 06, 2020, 08:58:34 PM
Oh yeah Project Veritas depends on their reliability...like literally the complete fraud they posted JUST LAST MONTH. Dumbasses.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/politics/project-veritas-ilhan-omar.html

The short of it, Project Veritas was taken in by a totally fraudulent claim in a video in September. Liban Osman, subject of Project Veritas alleged voter fraud story, tells @LydenFOX9 he was offered $10K by Omar Jamal to say he was collecting ballots for Congresswoman @IlhanMN.

So yeah, not a good source to be claiming they are a shining example of truthfulness and credibility.

The "dead people voted in Pennsylvania" stuff is fraudulent claim too:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/2020-election-misinformation-distortions

Finally, the Project Veritas Michigan "postage backdating" claim was debunked the same day it came out (the date on the envelope is irrelevant to whether or not it is counted since it had to physically be there on time to be counted):

https://www.mediamatters.org/sinclair-broadcast-group/sinclair-broadcast-group-spreads-debunked-project-veritas-disinformation

I seriously hate sore losers. I hated it when Democrats did it in 2000 and then in 2004 again, and I hate it now that Republicans are doing it in 2020. Same bullshit, different tribe.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: crkrueger on November 06, 2020, 09:08:13 PM
One county in Michigan flipped 5500 votes?
47 other counties use the same software?

47*5000=A lot more than Trump lost by.

Time to recount Michigan and verify the machine glitch and the Post Office Investigation before anyone calls anything.  There’s a chance the Post Office thing was local, but with three other states showing the “Michigan Pattern” it’s worth looking into.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 06, 2020, 09:16:08 PM
One county in Michigan flipped 5500 votes?
47 other counties use the same software?

47*5000=A lot more than Trump lost by.

Time to recount Michigan and verify the machine glitch and the Post Office Investigation before anyone calls anything.  There’s a chance the Post Office thing was local, but with three other states showing the “Michigan Pattern” it’s worth looking into.

They didn't though. The entire claim is complete bullshit.

Which is why you see no lawsuit being filed right now based on that allegation.

You're being a sucker.

Here are four more claims which were already debunked:

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54811410

And yet more debunked claims.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/06/why-some-michigan-election-conspiracy-theories-dont-add-up/6186067002/


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on November 06, 2020, 10:09:51 PM
They really should check the software updates of those systems in Michigan. If it's that easy for someone to mess it up, it could easily have happened at other counties. I doubt that it would take them too long to check, and the upside is that people would feel more confident.

It really would be a dick move not to do so.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 06, 2020, 10:14:23 PM
One county in Michigan flipped 5500 votes?
47 other counties use the same software?

47*5000=A lot more than Trump lost by.

Time to recount Michigan and verify the machine glitch and the Post Office Investigation before anyone calls anything.  There’s a chance the Post Office thing was local, but with three other states showing the “Michigan Pattern” it’s worth looking into.
I agree that it's worth looking into possible problems in the software after the Antrim county results. However, as far as I can see, no one has claimed that this was fraud. Antrim is a Republican-dominated county with conservative officials, and the Republican officials say it was an error. In general, I agree things should be investigated. And yes, if every county had the same error with the same effect, then it would make a difference. But this was an error that was found and caught.

Here is what I read so far about the investigation:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/06/antrim-county-vote-glitch-software-update/6194745002/

Quote
A failure to update software was the reason for a computer glitch that caused massive errors in unofficial election results reported from Antrim county, the Michigan Department of State said late Friday.

"The erroneous reporting of unofficial results from Antrim county was a result of accidental error on the part of the Antrim County clerk," the state agency that oversees elections said in a news release.

There was no problem with the voting machines or vote totals, which were preserved on tapes printed from the tabulators, the state said. The problem occurred when the totals by precinct were combined into candidate county-wide totals for transfer to the state, using election management system software, the state agency said in a news release.

"All ballots were properly tabulated. However, the clerk accidentally did not update the software used to collect voting machine data and report unofficial results."

State officials did not immediately respond to questions about whether they track when and how local officials update their election-related software or whether local officials are required to report needed updates to the state, once they are completed.

But they said any such errors in any county would be caught during the canvassing process, before results are declared official, when boards composed of two Democrats and two Republicans compare the numbers on the tapes printed from the tabulators to the unofficial results that were reported to the state.

In the Twitter thread, someone posted video of programmer Clint Curtis - who testified he was hired in 2000 to make touchscreen voting machines glitch and miscount votes. For context, though, he testified he was hired by *Republican* congressman Tom Feeney, who denied the allegations, which were never proven.

Even though there is no evidence that such a program ever was created or went into effect, I do have concerns about purely electronic voting, and would prefer to maintain paper ballots. With a paper trail, you can still count using software, but you can recount by hand to confirm. If there are fraudulent ballots, they can be found and analyzed for evidence.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on November 06, 2020, 10:36:26 PM
One of the biggest takeaways in this election is Trump was up in almost every demographic, except white men. He did better among LGBT+ voters, among women voters, among black voters, and among hispanic voters
Yeah, it's interesting. Will the Republican party gradually move to becoming the party of the diverse working class? Well, the Democrats were once the party of segregation, so why not...

What I will say is a good sign for the US is the increased voter participation this time. As The Dictator's Handbook noted, the only real difference between a dictator and a Prime Minister or President is how many people they have to please to stay in power - but that makes all the difference. If I have to please a few Generals and their men I don't have to think much about the public good, if I have to please 100 million people, I do.

So the broader the participation, the better it is for the public good... eventually, anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 06, 2020, 11:13:39 PM
https://www.dailywire.com/news/texas-charges-social-worker-with-134-felony-counts-involving-election-fraud

There's no such thing as voter fraud...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 06, 2020, 11:26:20 PM
Oh yeah Project Veritas depends on their reliability...like literally the complete fraud they posted JUST LAST MONTH. Dumbasses.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/politics/project-veritas-ilhan-omar.html

The short of it, Project Veritas was taken in by a totally fraudulent claim in a video in September. Liban Osman, subject of Project Veritas alleged voter fraud story, tells @LydenFOX9 he was offered $10K by Omar Jamal to say he was collecting ballots for Congresswoman @IlhanMN.

So yeah, not a good source to be claiming they are a shining example of truthfulness and credibility.

The "dead people voted in Pennsylvania" stuff is fraudulent claim too:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/2020-election-misinformation-distortions

Finally, the Project Veritas Michigan "postage backdating" claim was debunked the same day it came out (the date on the envelope is irrelevant to whether or not it is counted since it had to physically be there on time to be counted):

https://www.mediamatters.org/sinclair-broadcast-group/sinclair-broadcast-group-spreads-debunked-project-veritas-disinformation

I seriously hate sore losers. I hated it when Democrats did it in 2000 and then in 2004 again, and I hate it now that Republicans are doing it in 2020. Same bullshit, different tribe.
You quoted the New York Times and Media Matters! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA! I take it you're quite the troll here! I honestly LOL'd! Good job! Keep it up!

Greetings!

It is boggling to think this country will swallow the fucking Marxists defrauding the election to gain power and overthrow our Republic. Biden and Kamala? The idea that this election would be close is absurd.

The country wants to be on their knees and plough-fucked in the ass by Marxism, and have their guns taken away so they can be defenseless sheep, sucking down more globalist, cock-sucking Liberal jello.

Fucking pathetic.

This country had better wake the fuck up and fight against the goddamned Marxist takeover of our nation or we are fucked into oblivion. Fuck all the whiny, cock-sucking Liberal Marxist sheep. There won't be another election, for all the mushy middle "reasonable" sheep. If the country can't keep a ticket like Biden and Harris from siezing power, what fucking hope would the country have against an actually stronger, slicker, more competent, and glossier Marxist ticket, like, oh, AOC? This country is going to fucking burn. This is the 11th hour, and the barbarians are at te gates. America is on the edge of plunging into the abyss.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Don't blame the people for being oblivious. Most do not understand what Pychological Warfare looks like, or sounds like. All they know, all they've ever known, is what they have been told. As you can see from the bullshit I've taken (if you paid attention), then you should know that ANYONE who questions them or even PROVES THEM WRONG is immediately issued insults, attempts are made to discredit them, and are essentially told to prove themselves by those who wish them harm. "SHUT UP! I'm smarter than you. SHUT UP! I'm faster than you. SHUT UP! I'm going to kill you." If you fall into the psychwarfare trap, then they have you. Which is why I ignore them. They are not worth nor worthy to be replied to. They ARE the Philosophical Zombies. And they will one day regret what they have done. These are the armies, not of flesh and blood, but of the spirit of antichrist. Remember, there are many antichrists. Don't fall into this trap they have set.
https://www.rand.org/topics/psychological-warfare.html

Good luck, my brother!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 06, 2020, 11:33:49 PM
Sworn affidavit of Robert Cushman

Quote
AFFIDAVIT - Draft
The Affiant, Robert Cushman, being first duly sworn, hereby deposes and states as follows:

My name is Robert Cushman.  I am an adult citizen and resident of the State of Michigan.

I served and was trained to be a poll challenger for the November 2020 election in Detroit, Michigan.

During my observations of the normal processing of ballots on November 4th between about 0745 AM and 0830 AM I was substantially obstructed from performing my challenger duties of observing and making notes at Board Number 31. The persons involved either directly or indirectly involved: 1. A worker , 2. A supervisor , 3 an unknown  person with no credentials, 4 a Democratic Challenger with credentials and one of the AVCB leaders .

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020, Detroit election officials told us that they were going to process military ballots last. I did my best to try to observe the processing/duplication of the military ballots.

On November 4, 2020, I was surprised to see numerous new boxes of ballots arrive at the TCF Center in the evening. I first noticed these boxes in the distribution area after many of the military ballots had been distributed and processed.  I estimate these boxes contained several thousand new ballots when they appeared.

The main list of persons who had registered to vote on or before November 1, 2020, was listed on an electronic poll book, often referred to as the QVF. As I understand it, the Supplemental Sheets were the lists of persons who had registered to vote on November 2, 2020 or November 3, 2020.

I observed that none of the names on these new ballots were on the QVF or the Supplemental Sheets.

I saw the computer operators at several counting boards manually adding the names and addresses of these thousands of ballots to the QVF system.

When I asked what the possible justification was to counting ballots from unknown, unverified “persons”, I was told by election supervisors that the Wayne County Clerk’s Office had “checked them out.”

I challenged not one ballet, but the entire process as the names were not in the Poll Books or Supplemental Sheets and because the DOB’s were all wrong, all being marked as 01-01-1900.

An Election Supervisor near board number #86 advised me to go to the podium of election officials and ask one of them to help me. I did, and I enlisted the help of one of the leaders, a young man named Anthony Miller.

Mr. Miller walked me back to board number #86 and asked what I wanted the challenge to say. I said that I did not want to challenge just one ballot, but the entire process, as I was witnessing several thousand ballots inputted illegally. 

Mr. Miller advised the computer operator what to type in as a challenge so that it was part of the Official Record in the Poll Book for Board Number #86. 

I challenged the authority and the authenticity of all of these ballots that were being processed late with absolutely no accompanying documentation, no corresponding name in the QVF, and no corresponding name in the Supplemental List.

Every ballot was being fraudulently and manually entered into the Electronic Poll Book (QVF), as having been born on January 1, 1900.  This “last” batch of ballots was processed in the 8 PM to 10 PM time frame.

When I asked about this impossibility of each ballot having the same birthday occurring in 1900, I was told that was the instruction that came down from the Wayne County Clerk’s office. 

Mr. Miller was very clear about these late ballots and that the instructions were coming from the Wayne County Clerk’s office.

I was surprised and disappointed at the preponderance of dishonesty, irregularities, and fraudulent tactics at the November 3, 2020 election at the TCF Center.

The above information is true to the best of my information, knowledge, and belief.

Further affiant says not.

                        Robert Cushman
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on November 06, 2020, 11:50:13 PM
Link for that, Jeff?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 07, 2020, 12:11:46 AM
As you can see from the bullshit I've taken (if you paid attention), then you should know that ANYONE who questions them or even PROVES THEM WRONG is immediately issued insults, attempts are made to discredit them, and are essentially told to prove themselves by those who wish them harm. "SHUT UP! I'm smarter than you. SHUT UP! I'm faster than you. SHUT UP! I'm going to kill you." If you fall into the psychwarfare trap, then they have you. Which is why I ignore them. They are not worth nor worthy to be replied to. They ARE the Philosophical Zombies. And they will one day regret what they have done. These are the armies, not of flesh and blood, but of the spirit of antichrist. Remember, there are many antichrists. Don't fall into this trap they have set.
Hi, consolcwby. I had some replies for you back in reply #613 and #615, but you haven't replied. I guess you are ignoring me as one of the antichrists. Maybe from your point of view, I am an antichrist - but I am not telling you to shut up, nor am I trying to kill you.

My church is currently holding services online, and everyone is welcome. Services are 10:30AM on Sundays. I'd invite you to come by and decide for yourself.

https://www.uufrc.org/

Perhaps you consider this just more of the psychological warfare, but I don't want to insult or hurt you, and I would genuinely hope we could communicate without such rancor.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 07, 2020, 01:05:14 AM
Oh yeah Project Veritas depends on their reliability...like literally the complete fraud they posted JUST LAST MONTH. Dumbasses.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/politics/project-veritas-ilhan-omar.html

The short of it, Project Veritas was taken in by a totally fraudulent claim in a video in September. Liban Osman, subject of Project Veritas alleged voter fraud story, tells @LydenFOX9 he was offered $10K by Omar Jamal to say he was collecting ballots for Congresswoman @IlhanMN.

So yeah, not a good source to be claiming they are a shining example of truthfulness and credibility.

The "dead people voted in Pennsylvania" stuff is fraudulent claim too:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/2020-election-misinformation-distortions

Finally, the Project Veritas Michigan "postage backdating" claim was debunked the same day it came out (the date on the envelope is irrelevant to whether or not it is counted since it had to physically be there on time to be counted):

https://www.mediamatters.org/sinclair-broadcast-group/sinclair-broadcast-group-spreads-debunked-project-veritas-disinformation

I seriously hate sore losers. I hated it when Democrats did it in 2000 and then in 2004 again, and I hate it now that Republicans are doing it in 2020. Same bullshit, different tribe.

A lot of this has been addressed by Project Veritas and others already.
Are you also of the opinion that the recent riots were coming from the right wing?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 07, 2020, 05:39:55 AM
You can always trust a Lincoln project man to take the 2020 NYT at face value.  "DEBUNKED!!!  The NYT would never lie, just like Philadelphia would never commit the mass election fraud it's been known for, for decades, in this cycle where nothing much at all was at stake"

And soon the LP will learn what their new allies think they've really earned.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/aoc-calls-on-lincoln-project-to-take-the-l-and-give-fundraising-to-grassroots-organizers

Enjoy your mirage victory until it evaporates, copperheads.  We don't need you, and no one wants you.  This isn't going to stand, and we can pick up 10 voters for every LP man that goes sniveling home to Nancy Pelosi, just by ditching: stupid foreign wars, an economy based on pushing papers around on desks, and COC trade deals.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that LP's $67 million didn't mostly go to paying the necessary grease to make this fraud happen, including running interference (or more) via their alphabet agency members.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 07, 2020, 07:41:42 AM
Link for that, Jeff?

Came off of Larry Correia's Facebook feed. I'm looking, but the link seems to have been removed.

Take with a grain of salt then.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 07, 2020, 11:43:57 AM
What I will say is a good sign for the US is the increased voter participation this time. As The Dictator's Handbook noted, the only real difference between a dictator and a Prime Minister or President is how many people they have to please to stay in power - but that makes all the difference. If I have to please a few Generals and their men I don't have to think much about the public good, if I have to please 100 million people, I do.

So the broader the participation, the better it is for the public good... eventually, anyway.
I don't agree. Plenty of dictators have been voted into power, and dictators and democratically elected representatives both need public support.  If anything, dictators are more sensitive to public opinion, because they know it's unlikely they'll be able to make a graceful exit. If they're overthrown, they'll end up in jail, or dead. That's why dictators hold so desperately to power, and even those who allow some kind of sham voting always make sure they control the means of communication, like seizing control of the media, making dissent illegal, setting up secret police and informer networks so people can't safely express their true beliefs, rewriting the official histories, and so on. They want to control the narrative by controlling what people can learn and say.

That's one of the key differences between democracy and a dictatorship: Democracy provides for a peaceful transition of power. This trait is shared with monarchies, though republics provide for more regular transitions, and these typically happen over a much shorter period of time. But the will of the governed? That's only a feature of democracies insofar as they tend to be more transparent and allow freer discourse.

The problem is public sentiment remains a crude tool and a poor check on the power of the political class. It tends to react based on outrage, which means it only cares about extreme or sensationalized events, and it has a very short attention span. This means it makes decisions based on little information, and can be easily appeased, or fooled by redirecting its rage onto scapegoats. It's oblivious to more subtle abuses, allowing the whole system to be quickly suborned by special interests. The public is a hibernating bear the ruling elite don't want to prod too hard, not a good manager.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 07, 2020, 11:56:27 AM
Oh yeah Project Veritas depends on their reliability...like literally the complete fraud they posted JUST LAST MONTH. Dumbasses.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/politics/project-veritas-ilhan-omar.html

The short of it, Project Veritas was taken in by a totally fraudulent claim in a video in September. Liban Osman, subject of Project Veritas alleged voter fraud story, tells @LydenFOX9 he was offered $10K by Omar Jamal to say he was collecting ballots for Congresswoman @IlhanMN.

So yeah, not a good source to be claiming they are a shining example of truthfulness and credibility.

The "dead people voted in Pennsylvania" stuff is fraudulent claim too:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/2020-election-misinformation-distortions

Finally, the Project Veritas Michigan "postage backdating" claim was debunked the same day it came out (the date on the envelope is irrelevant to whether or not it is counted since it had to physically be there on time to be counted):

https://www.mediamatters.org/sinclair-broadcast-group/sinclair-broadcast-group-spreads-debunked-project-veritas-disinformation

I seriously hate sore losers. I hated it when Democrats did it in 2000 and then in 2004 again, and I hate it now that Republicans are doing it in 2020. Same bullshit, different tribe.

A lot of this has been addressed by Project Veritas and others already.
Are you also of the opinion that the recent riots were coming from the right wing?

1. PV isn't credible. Oh they've "addressed" it? Funny, you didn't link to anything. Because we both know their "addressing it" was to be dismissive.
2. No, of course not.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 07, 2020, 11:58:08 AM
You can always trust a Lincoln project man to take the 2020 NYT at face value.  "DEBUNKED!!!  The NYT would never lie, just like Philadelphia would never commit the mass election fraud it's been known for, for decades, in this cycle where nothing much at all was at stake"

And soon the LP will learn what their new allies think they've really earned.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/aoc-calls-on-lincoln-project-to-take-the-l-and-give-fundraising-to-grassroots-organizers

Enjoy your mirage victory until it evaporates, copperheads.  We don't need you, and no one wants you.  This isn't going to stand, and we can pick up 10 voters for every LP man that goes sniveling home to Nancy Pelosi, just by ditching: stupid foreign wars, an economy based on pushing papers around on desks, and COC trade deals.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that LP's $67 million didn't mostly go to paying the necessary grease to make this fraud happen, including running interference (or more) via their alphabet agency members.

What are you going to do when Biden is sworn in as President?

Reality will hit you soon. It's hitting Trump already.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 07, 2020, 12:45:09 PM

1. PV isn't credible. Oh they've "addressed" it? Funny, you didn't link to anything. Because we both know their "addressing it" was to be dismissive.
2. No, of course not.

Same with your counter-evidence. It's just this guy saying that they were trying to pay him to say stuff. And yet, he said what he said on camera, without them filming it (they filmed themselves). It is one of the weakest "debunks" I have seen. As others mention, when PV get taken to court, they win.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 07, 2020, 12:54:25 PM
PV have been taken seriously by people like Eric and Bret Weinstein, and you can find videos where they explain several of the things they have exposed. They are frankly more believable right now than NYT, who have been lying about things happening before my own eyes.

Having said that, in the end I think it's pretty clear that Biden is winning this, fraud or no fraud on either side.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 07, 2020, 12:57:10 PM
Congratulations to President-elect Biden!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 07, 2020, 01:06:11 PM
I'm looking forward to finding out what Trueinternationalunderpressure is. I hope it means I get a pony.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 07, 2020, 02:15:34 PM
It's funny how the people yelling "fraud" don't seem to care about voter purges in Georgia in 2019 (200k, mostly black and liberal) or the many thousands of ballots "delayed" or "lost" in the mail on account of Trump's appointee, DeJoy.

Hmm...I wonder why?

Either way, Trump lost. Be butthurt if you must, but this is the process. It is flawed and all sorts of shenanigans happen on both sides. But if you're going to cry foul, at least try to be non-partisan about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 07, 2020, 03:08:51 PM
It's funny how the people yelling "fraud" don't seem to care about voter purges in Georgia in 2019 (200k, mostly black and liberal) or the many thousands of ballots "delayed" or "lost" in the mail on account of Trump's appointee, DeJoy.

Hmm...I wonder why?
Because in the first case, purging voters who haven't voted in a long time isn't fraud. It isn't even related to fraud.

And in the second case, would a few thousand ballots have made a difference? If not, then that's why most people don't care. You notice nobody is worried about Illinois in this race, the recounts and allegations of fraud that are making the news are all in the swing states like Pennsylvania and Michigan. That's simply because it's more newsworthy (and there's more incentive to cheat) when the results matter. But regardless of public attention, those sort of allegations should always be investigated, because that's the only way to give the public confidence that democracy is working.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 07, 2020, 07:10:15 PM
You can always trust a Lincoln project man to take the 2020 NYT at face value.  "DEBUNKED!!!  The NYT would never lie, just like Philadelphia would never commit the mass election fraud it's been known for, for decades, in this cycle where nothing much at all was at stake"

And soon the LP will learn what their new allies think they've really earned.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/aoc-calls-on-lincoln-project-to-take-the-l-and-give-fundraising-to-grassroots-organizers

Enjoy your mirage victory until it evaporates, copperheads.  We don't need you, and no one wants you.  This isn't going to stand, and we can pick up 10 voters for every LP man that goes sniveling home to Nancy Pelosi, just by ditching: stupid foreign wars, an economy based on pushing papers around on desks, and COC trade deals.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that LP's $67 million didn't mostly go to paying the necessary grease to make this fraud happen, including running interference (or more) via their alphabet agency members.

What are you going to do when Biden is sworn in as President?

Reality will hit you soon. It's hitting Trump already.

If that were to happen, I have no idea what the options available would be yet.  So unlike Fox, I don't project.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on November 07, 2020, 07:35:16 PM
Congratulations to President-elect Biden!
LOL, till he has a stroke or gets 25th'ed out or gets arkanicided.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on November 07, 2020, 08:51:17 PM
I don't agree. Plenty of dictators have been voted into power
Not really in free and fair elections.

Quote
and dictators and democratically elected representatives both need public support.
Yes and no. There's actual support, then there's not opposing them. For a leader, simply having people not oppose them can be enough, so long as key people support them.

Quote
those who allow some kind of sham voting always make sure they control the means of communication
One of the reasons they allow sham voting is that it reminds their key supporters they're replaceable. A certain amount of social mobility is necessary in any society to make people support that society; people will put up with a pretty awful life if there's even a small hope of it changing.

Imperial China had the civil service exam, in theory anyone could do it and get a job for life, in practice it was the sons of artisans and merchants who had the money to pay for a tutor. Still, every town of any size had a bunch of kids visible going off to school, and some of them after doing the exam went off to the capital and sent money back home. From the late 18th century, though, fewer and fewer family names appeared on the roll - graduates were slipping advanced copies to nephews back home, etc. One day a young man failed the exam, went to Hong Kong and had a nervous breakdown - and while there listened to a German preacher and became convinced he was the brother of Jesus, and ended up leading a rebellion preaching all property in common, etc - the Taiping Rebellion, the bloodiest war in human history until WWII.

A lack of social mobility in a system makes people want to change the system. Sham voting is a process where the commoners can enter the rubber-stamp parliament, which while it has no power as a parliament setting policies for government, the members are all connected to the senior bureaucrats and businesspeople and Generals and so on. So if you want to build a block of apartments or get your son a commission in the army or be able to dump some toxic soil near a school, that member of the People's Grand Parliament is the guy you speak to. They don't have legislative power, but they certainly have the power to get things done.

Every election, some of those guys leave the parliament and some new ones enter it. And some of those who leave the parliament go to the politburo and work with the Dear Leader. And some of the politburo drop out and back into the parliament, etc.

This is, by the by, one of the reasons for regular purges in communist and fascist systems of government, and for kings in the middle ages to go around lopping off the heads of a few nobles - purges create job vacancies, social mobility. Everyone thinks purges are just about fear, and of course they're about fear - but purges create hope. As wikipedia notes,

"The purge of the Red Army and Military Maritime Fleet removed three of five marshals (then equivalent to four-star generals), 13 of 15 army commanders (then equivalent to three-star generals), eight of nine admirals (the purge fell heavily on the Navy, who were suspected of exploiting their opportunities for foreign contacts), 50 of 57 army corps commanders, 154 out of 186 division commanders, 16 of 16 army commissars, and 25 of 28 army corps commissars."

which is to say, Stalin created 269 job vacancies in the senior ranks. That's 269 people who became Generals and Admirals, which also means that 269 others went into their old positions, and so on down the chain of command all the way to some privates becoming corporals. One of the reasons wartime sees such loyalty to The Leader is that all the deaths of commanders create lots of opportunities for promotion, and of course the rapid expansion of the military creates a lot of new positions, too.

Wars are great for social mobility, which is why many failing systems - like Soviet communism, or modern American capitalism - are so keen on starting wars. Peace would mean no promotions, and in fact a lot of retirements.

The more long-lasting systems find more peaceful ways to do it, like the DPRK's elections. One of the reasons people stopped supporting the Soviet Union was that the same group of 20-30 old guys were running things for decades, and they were mostly at peace - the Afghan war wasn't big enough to kill a lot of senior officers or require an expansion of the military. Without genuine elections or purges or wars to create social mobility, nobody had hopes of change any more, so they lost interest.

Quote
But the will of the governed? That's only a feature of democracies insofar as they tend to be more transparent and allow freer discourse.
It's more like this. Let's suppose I am the leader of a city of 100,000 people, each of whom provides me with $1,000 revenue on average, for $100 million in all. What do I do with this money?

Now, if they are all disarmed except for my 100-man Imperial Guard, I can give each of my Imperial Guard $500,000 - for half a million each I can find 1 man willing to shoot the other 999 unarmed protesters if he has some company. I just need to look after those 100 men really well and I can rule the other 99,900, and keep $50 million for myself.

But if I need 50,001 of them to vote for me, giving them $1,000 back isn't going to impress them much, so I can't keep that $50 million spare, I have to give all $100 million back - $2,000 each. Those 50,001 people are only $1,000 better off, though, that may not be enough to convince them, especially if they have to trudge along dirt roads and pay for a tutor for their kids and pay doctors and so on out of that. So instead I take that $100 million and spend it on roads and schools and medical clinics. This also doesn't guarantee support but at least after tossing me out at the next election they speak well of me and I might be able to get back in at some later time.

Which is to say, increasing the franchise tends to work to encourage leaders to consider the overall public good more.

This then explains why leaders do things like gerrymandering and voter suppression - if I could get in with just 10,000 of the right voters, I could give them $5,000 each, keep $50 million for myself and still get in. It also explains why opposition parties are against gerrymandering and voter suppression - they just have to get 10,001 people who don't normally vote to get out there and they're in. But of course, once they're in they become less keen on it.

So it's not that dictators can ignore public opinion or whatever. It's that people support you if you reward them, and don't if you don't. The more people whose support you need to get and stay in power, the more likely you are to do things for the public good - not out of altruism, but out of your own self-interest in staying in power.

Longer-term, you need to offer some small hope, at least, of social mobility. That's why Oceania in 1984 had the lottery for the proles, but it's also why it had O'Brien doing purges.

It's no coincidence that decades of stagnant growth for the waged class in the US, combined with people bribing their way into unis, etc, gets you civil unrest. Nor is it a coincidence that the US is involved in Forever Wars. Drumpf pulled out of the Forever Wars so that's why he had to put in tariffs etc, rebuild manufacturing jobs and give the proles some hope. If Biden wants to bin the tariffs he'll have to go to war instead. It's either that or people lose interest in supporting the system and the US goes the way of the SU.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on November 07, 2020, 08:57:26 PM
The only silver lining in this whole fuckosity is watching JP explain WTF just happened.

Enjoy your Kamala Harris presidency and the impending gulags. :P

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Abraxus on November 07, 2020, 11:58:48 PM
What gets me is the continual hypocrisy on the left is amazing imo.

Up until Biden was announced the winner Trump had mismanaged the Covid-19 crisis etc..etc. Now that Biden won suddenly so many Biden  supporters while cheering the win have thrown away all sense when it comes to quarantine procedures. What gets me is the anti-Trump supporters "well they are wearing masks" which are help yet when 20+ Biden supporters hugging and kissing and celebrating a mask can only do so much. Sorry this applies to supporters on both sides. Your side is not immune to criticism simply because you are heavily emotionally invested in it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Aglondir on November 08, 2020, 01:02:43 AM
I'm looking forward to finding out what Trueinternationalunderpressure is. I hope it means I get a pony.

It's the Thing.

You know, the Thing!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 08, 2020, 01:11:45 AM
Greetings!

I read an article that discussed how Biden and Harris are going to tear down the Wall, and totally destroy Trump's immigration policies. No bans, no restrictions, anyone and everyone can just fucking pour into the country. More than 11 million illegal immigrants in the country Biden plans to make citizens during his first 100 days in office.

Globalist, cock-sucking Marxists. Oh, well, Biden isn't a Marxist--he's a moderate.

You fucking drooling moron. If he goes along with Marxists and lets fucking Globalist Marxists fucking run everything, it isn't necessary for Biden to be a card-carrying Marxist. Millions of drooling, brain-fucked idiots are heavily influenced by Marxists goddamned ideology without thinking of themselves as being officially *Marxists*--but that stupid fucking delusion doesn't take anything way from the fact that they are still standing by and helping Marxists fuck everyone else in the ass.

Fucking simple minded jackasses. Learn how Marxism has infiltrated our entire society, from government, to social policy, to education, entertainment, and the media. It's influence is everywhere, and fucking deep, and has only been getting stronger and more pervasive over the whole population at large for decades.

Fucking smug idiots. Learn about how psychological warfare and propaganda works to shift and influence cultures.

I know exactly what the fuck I'm talking about. And I don't give a fuck about some idealistic naïve fuck in some "Democratic Socialist" country that believes socialism is all sweet and fucking dandy. They are still naïve, and have been compromised in varying degrees. If some people love socialism in fucking Europe or elsewhere, well, good for them! That doesn't mean that we here in America need to swallow that shit down!

LENIN said "The Goal of Socialism is Communism. Socialism is but a way station on the way to Communism."

GLOBALISM is deeply Marxist, and embraces Marxism. Globalists--all the cock sucking technocrats and corporate cockroaches some of you try and make distinctions for--guess what? They are just fine with allying with and using Marxism to get what they want. Just because they don't explicitly claim to be or support Marxism doesn't mean they still aren't Marxists. And another thing--Marxism always has an elite, wealthy cream at the top that rules over the hordes of the unwashed masses. Where do you fucking think the Globalist Technocrats see themselves being?

Some of you claim to be educated and sophisticated, but goddamn, some of you can't fucking see the forest before the trees. You try and make all these petty distinctions, that seem to be there on the surface--but totally miss the deeper connections, the deeper motivations, the deeper goals.

And also, the whole mail-in voting fraud? Are you people that fucking brain dead and numb? A commission led by Jimmy Carter 10 years or more back said that mail in voting was rife with fraud and corruption. The fucking New York Times--such an alt-right conservative rag, right? Did an investigation years back where they also said that mail-in voting was fucking corrupt as all fuck. Then, just recently, all over the mainstream, liberal, cock-sucking news--there were several different elections, I think in New York, Michigan, Jersey, and maybe somewhere else, where there were thousands of fraud votes and corrupt bullshit going on--and delays of weeks and months in sorting out the fucking mess--but somehow, now, in this presidential election, you don't think there's the potential for fraud and fuckery going on with MILLIONS of mail in votes? And somehow, the delays in counting and processing have somehow conveniently occurred in closely contested battleground states--but no, no, Republicans are a bunch of conspiracy idiots for demanding investigations and deeper supervision of the whole process? Geesus, people.

Just like millions of drooling, brainwashed fucking sheep in this country, that can't see beyond their fucking face and their own doorstep. As long as they get to keep fucking, keep snorting, gulping down cheeseburgers and mac and cheese, and light up a blunt, and get a fucking check from the government--more free stuff!--what the fuck do they care? They are blind and choking on shit. They are so easily led and manipulated. Like fucking cattle, fattened for the slaughter, with a fucking nose ring through their nose. Yay! I can get a new piercing this weekend and a new tramp stamp on my fat fucking ass! Get you some juice, baby!!!

All such fat, bloated sheep, pumped full of Marxist jello. The snot dripping from their nose as they cackle and giggle like stupid bitches like AOC. Dancing in the streets, drunk with wine and debauchery, while Rome burns.

So tragic. And meanwhile, yeah, fucking morons. Remember when Biden aligned himself with Bernie, AOC, Buttiegeg, and Beto O'Rourke, promising them all positions of glory, power, and authority? What the fuck do you think their plans for America are going to do to the country? Fucking Harris was EQUITY OF OUTCOME, not equality. But yeah, that's right. Don't get upset. Don't get "butthurt" about any of it. Just enjoy the plough fucking you in the ass.

There are a lot of drooling morons in this country. How anyone can seriously listen to the plans and programs of Biden and Harris, and their lackies and toadies, and think all of that isn't terrible for this country? What the Fuck? Reparations? Redistribution of wealth? Fucking robbery and theft. Higher taxes? Open the fucking gates of immigration? Are you fucking insane? Disarm the country, and confiscate firearms. Yay, Harris and O'Rourke! They have said they are going to do that, too. "Mandatory Gun By-backs"--that's gun confiscation for the mentally slow. AOC and the "Green New Deal". Bernie's "Medicare For All"--all of these enormous programs that will absolutely bankrupt the country and send us into poverty and servitude. On and fucking on. But that's right. Lots of drooling fucking sheep just smile stupidly and think it's all one big fucking party. Yay! Miley Cyrus thinks that. One big party for America!

And I am certainly not ranting delusionally--nor is anyone else here that has argued similar points to my rant here--we are not "extreme" or some other BS. These policies and plans have all been discussed and embraced by Biden, Harris, and their fucking toads. I didn't make this awful shit up. This stuff is the ideology and policies of these goddamned Marxist clowns.

Fucking mind boggling.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: crkrueger on November 08, 2020, 01:15:26 AM
What’s the Over/Under on months before Biden is 25th’d and War with Iran?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 08, 2020, 12:02:39 PM
Guess dissent is no longer patriotic again (that was fun in the shift from Bush to Obama -- the left flipped gears so fast even I was surprised).

How about some actual science? https://gnews.org/534248/

Short form: Biden's votes actually violate Benford's law, which has been used successfully to nail down Iranian election fraud (2009) and other forensic analyses.

But the real fallout can be found here: https://johnpavlovitz.com/2020/11/05/we-were-wrong-about-america/

Remember, lefties: we're not trapped in here with you. You are trapped in here with us. And there's 70 million of us who watched you push a senile old fuck and a literal political whore into office. Good job.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on November 08, 2020, 04:13:30 PM
there's 70 million of us who watched you push a senile old fuck and a literal...whore into office.

It's 75 million. And have some respect, for God's sake, the man's still President until Biden is sworn in.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: crkrueger on November 08, 2020, 04:21:54 PM
there's 70 million of us who watched you push a senile old fuck and a literal...whore into office.

It's 75 million. And have some respect, for God's sake, the man's still President until Biden is sworn in.

Ok, now that was funny. :D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 08, 2020, 05:22:14 PM
What's this thing about Kamala being a "whore" or slutty?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: crkrueger on November 08, 2020, 06:12:14 PM
What's this thing about Kamala being a "whore" or slutty?

There have been rumors for years in California politics that she slept her way to Attorney General.  Whether it’s true or not mostly just tells you political affiliation.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 08, 2020, 06:19:27 PM
Greetings!

I read an article that discussed how Biden and Harris are going to tear down the Wall, and totally destroy Trump's immigration policies. No bans, no restrictions, anyone and everyone can just fucking pour into the country. More than 11 million illegal immigrants in the country Biden plans to make citizens during his first 100 days in office.

Globalist, cock-sucking Marxists. Oh, well, Biden isn't a Marxist--he's a moderate.

Mmmm. no. It's much worse than you have imagined so far... He is pretty much a Marxist of the worst sort. His son Hunter Biden, owns 10% of Red China's largest foreign investment company. John Kerry's son owns a big chunk of this Red Chinese company as well, Bohai Harvest RST, along with one of the younger Bulger clan out of Boston. Together they own 30% of this multibillion dollar Chinese investment company, the only Red Chinese investment company authorized to invest in companies outside of China. In 2013 Hunter Introduced the CEO of BHR to Joe Biden, who fast tracked some legislation for them, and provided the Red Chinese with back door access to the Obama Administation White House.

In consideration for that favor, the Red Chinese arranged to buy one of Hunter Biden's other companies, Rosemont Realty, for $75 Million in Cash, back in 2015. Rosemont Realty, which owns and manages commercial real estate mostly in New Mexico. Since 2015, though the Chinese have pumped hundreds of millions in Rosemont Realty and have been busy buying more U.S. businesses and office space, and now own 2.1 Billion dollars of U.S. Real Estate . Joe Biden & Son have literally been selling the United States to the Red Chinese. I have the complete paper trail, including actual bank records if you really need to see this. The Bank records include the Ukranian's paying off Hunter Biden as well for access to American political favors during the Obama Administration. John Kerry's son stepped off the Ukranian deal in 2016, built still owns a huge chunk of the Chinese Investment Company.

I only got access to the paperwork because Hunter Biden's company, Rosemont Boahai, LLC. was sued into non-existence, because a couple of his scummy business partners there embezzled sixty million dollars of Lakota Indian Bond Money back in 2015 that was earmarked to develop an entire new neighborhood in Pine Ridge South Dakota for the Indians. So his business partners stole money from the Indians using a Ponzi scheme, and were convicted in an unrelated criminal investigation where these records were subpoena'd because several million dollars of the Lakota Money was processed and funneled through the Rosemont Bohai, LLC. investment accounts. NY District Attorney determined Hunter didn't know about this, so he wasn't charged. 

Sadly, I only found out about this on October 24th, after watching a video Rudy Guliani posted on Youtube, but only after he realized the Trump Administration was in serious trouble with the upcoming election. Rudy said he had proof, but didn't provide any, hoever I took the trouble to look into his allegations more deeply and found out he was telling the truth. The Bidens are rich because the red Chinese already paid them off, and will probably pay them even more for future considerations.

So I didn't vote for Biden, even though I originally planned to. I never was going to vote for Trump, because he is literally the worst American President who drew air in my lifetime. He was so bad, I found myself apologizing to the French for his erratic behavior and lack of leadersship, ...and that says alot. I did happily elect Greg Pence to Congress for the 6th district here in Indiana, he's older and smarter than his little brother Mike, anyway, and is an ex-Marine combat commander with a good head on his shoulders. If anyone can fix our defunct and dysfunctional government from the inside, it would be Greg.     
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 08, 2020, 06:23:46 PM
What's this thing about Kamala being a "whore" or slutty?

There have been rumors for years in California politics that she slept her way to Attorney General.  Whether it’s true or not mostly just tells you political affiliation.

She did. She was also very erratic as a prosecuting Attorney General. I expect nothing remarkable in terms of leadership from her over the next four years, however would be delighted if she disappoints my current expectations. I'd also be surprised if she doesn't join the Democrats baksheesh pay for favors program, where they have historically taken money from foreign leaders in exchange for supporting legislation favorable for the foreigners, and generally harmful to American citizens. We'll see.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 08, 2020, 07:09:56 PM
And I am certainly not ranting delusionally

Shark, I love yah man. But yes. Yes you are ranting delusionally.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 08, 2020, 07:25:48 PM
What's this thing about Kamala being a "whore" or slutty?
When she was in her 20s, she dated Willie Brown, who was married (though separated), and 31 years her senior. While they dated, he was the speaker of the assembly and then mayor (of San Fran), and appointed her to several positions, including the California Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board and then to the Medical Assistance Commission, supported her run for DA, and gave her expensive gifts, like a BMW. This is all public record, and well documented. Rumors beyond that are just rumors.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2019/01/27/willie-brown-kamala-harris-san-francisco-chronicle-letter/2695143002/
https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/article/Sure-I-dated-Kamala-Harris-So-what-13562972.php
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on November 08, 2020, 07:41:17 PM
I just want my stimulus tbh
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 08, 2020, 07:46:29 PM
Greetings!

I read an article that discussed how Biden and Harris are going to tear down the Wall, and totally destroy Trump's immigration policies. No bans, no restrictions, anyone and everyone can just fucking pour into the country. More than 11 million illegal immigrants in the country Biden plans to make citizens during his first 100 days in office.

Globalist, cock-sucking Marxists. Oh, well, Biden isn't a Marxist--he's a moderate.

Mmmm. no. It's much worse than you have imagined so far... He is pretty much a Marxist of the worst sort. His son Hunter Biden, owns 10% of Red China's largest foreign investment company. John Kerry's son owns a big chunk of this Red Chinese company as well, Bohai Harvest RST, along with one of the younger Bulger clan out of Boston. Together they own 30% of this multibillion dollar Chinese investment company, the only Red Chinese investment company authorized to invest in companies outside of China. In 2013 Hunter Introduced the CEO of BHR to Joe Biden, who fast tracked some legislation for them, and provided the Red Chinese with back door access to the Obama Administation White House.

In consideration for that favor, the Red Chinese arranged to buy one of Hunter Biden's other companies, Rosemont Realty, for $75 Million in Cash, back in 2015. Rosemont Realty, which owns and manages commercial real estate mostly in New Mexico. Since 2015, though the Chinese have pumped hundreds of millions in Rosemont Realty and have been busy buying more U.S. businesses and office space, and now own 2.1 Billion dollars of U.S. Real Estate . Joe Biden & Son have literally been selling the United States to the Red Chinese. I have the complete paper trail, including actual bank records if you really need to see this. The Bank records include the Ukranian's paying off Hunter Biden as well for access to American political favors during the Obama Administration. John Kerry's son stepped off the Ukranian deal in 2016, built still owns a huge chunk of the Chinese Investment Company.

I only got access to the paperwork because Hunter Biden's company, Rosemont Boahai, LLC. was sued into non-existence, because a couple of his scummy business partners there embezzled sixty million dollars of Lakota Indian Bond Money back in 2015 that was earmarked to develop an entire new neighborhood in Pine Ridge South Dakota for the Indians. So his business partners stole money from the Indians using a Ponzi scheme, and were convicted in an unrelated criminal investigation where these records were subpoena'd because several million dollars of the Lakota Money was processed and funneled through the Rosemont Bohai, LLC. investment accounts. NY District Attorney determined Hunter didn't know about this, so he wasn't charged. 

Sadly, I only found out about this on October 24th, after watching a video Rudy Guliani posted on Youtube, but only after he realized the Trump Administration was in serious trouble with the upcoming election. Rudy said he had proof, but didn't provide any, hoever I took the trouble to look into his allegations more deeply and found out he was telling the truth. The Bidens are rich because the red Chinese already paid them off, and will probably pay them even more for future considerations.

So I didn't vote for Biden, even though I originally planned to. I never was going to vote for Trump, because he is literally the worst American President who drew air in my lifetime. He was so bad, I found myself apologizing to the French for his erratic behavior and lack of leadersship, ...and that says alot. I did happily elect Greg Pence to Congress for the 6th district here in Indiana, he's older and smarter than his little brother Mike, anyway, and is an ex-Marine combat commander with a good head on his shoulders. If anyone can fix our defunct and dysfunctional government from the inside, it would be Greg.   

Greetings!

Excellent commentary, Gamedaddy! Thank you. All of the sordid, scummy fucking details of how greedy, corrupt, and evil Biden and company are doesn't surprise me at all. It's great to get a deeper look into the details, Gamedaddy!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 08, 2020, 07:47:28 PM
I just want my stimulus tbh

I'll be shocked if we get any more direct stimulus. Both parties seem to be happy to add pork to the proposals, and have the other side shoot it down.
But keep on being unemployed and locked down, or grandma will die.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 08, 2020, 07:59:28 PM
I expect a 2nd stimulus check. Gotta throw out the bread during the circus.

What’s the Over/Under on months before Biden is 25th’d and War with Iran?

Those things won't happen in Trump's 2nd term. The left overplayed its hand and the fraud avalanche is laughable and there's more evidence incoming. It's like a kid with a mouthful of cookies trying to tell you they have no idea what happened to the cookies. Math still works and Notorious ACB and "Uncle Clarence" are ready to rock. 

However, the DC Swamp is deep, hateful and dangerous, so if the election is stolen and Dementia JoJo becomes a puppet dictator, here's my bets.

I doubt China wants war with Iran. They probably want sanctions dropped so they can take advantage of that market (Iran needs money, China wants resources). I would think China would want a new Cold War with Russia and total focus on "Russia!!!" so nobody watches what China's up to. 

As for Biden, he's irrelevant except for his signature. He didn't even know what his policy stances were during his "campaign". As the leftists control the media, and the media will never ask any questions, what goes on in the White House and who really has their hand up the puppet's ass won't be known.

However, I do believe Biden would introduce the concept of a co-Presidency at his Inauguration as he's already called it the Harris-Biden administration. It will be praised as brilliantly progressive and prove his dedication/submission to identity politics.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on November 08, 2020, 08:01:44 PM

I'll be shocked if we get any more direct stimulus. Both parties seem to be happy to add pork to the proposals, and have the other side shoot it down.
But keep on being unemployed and locked down, or grandma will die.

Ikr! The problem was that everyone used their money for frivolous purchases and they should have waited longer for the first payments. However, this is the time to pass the next round of checks. A lot of stores are counting on the holiday sales to stay afloat. If they going to give $1200 they shouldnt even bother. Small business and landlords are the ones that really got the ugly end of this pandemic. The ideal stimulus would be $3k for each adult but then when you multiply that by millions you know its not happening.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 08, 2020, 09:11:33 PM
$4 trillion stimulus / 150 million taxpayers
= $25,000 to $30,000

That's how much that $1,200 cost you.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on November 08, 2020, 10:08:39 PM
$4 trillion stimulus / 150 million taxpayers
= $25,000 to $30,000

That's how much that $1,200 cost you.

Yes and no. Most of that will come off federal grants towards state infrastructure and local public jobs during the next few years. They can only increase taxes so much. And even them, most states simply don't have enough of a perk for people to overpay in income and property taxes. NY and CA are going to be the states where these changes will likely affect the most. Manhattan tolls will likely increase to $20 in the next five years as well and then there's no guarantee another large scale global event won't affect the world again. Forget about national debt, this is the only thing where it's almost safe to say that will never get paid off in today's world.   

In other words, damage is done. We'll be seeing more potholes, slower public service, and higher taxes for sure. Although I'm positive things will get much worse before it gets better. The pandemic is nowhere under control and those ma and pop small business will disappear from east to west.

This is a greedy capitalist utopian dream. Only chain stores and far less competition. What concerns me though is how many of these businesses have their roots in the US. We need to stop exporting American jobs overseas right now!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 08, 2020, 10:19:44 PM
$4 trillion stimulus / 150 million taxpayers
= $25,000 to $30,000

That's how much that $1,200 cost you.
Hmmm... I hadn't realized that. I guess hyperinflation is going to fuck us all eventually. WW3 if we 'chew and screw' as a nation. Hmmm....
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 08, 2020, 10:46:12 PM
$4 trillion stimulus / 150 million taxpayers
= $25,000 to $30,000

That's how much that $1,200 cost you the next generation.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 08, 2020, 11:00:33 PM
I've just read this, and thought I'd share:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/developing-nancy-pelosis-chief-staff-chief-executive-feinsteins-husband-major-shareholder-dominion-ballot-counting-systems/

Not just a coincidence me thinks...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Aglondir on November 08, 2020, 11:20:27 PM
What’s the Over/Under on months before Biden is 25th’d and War with Iran?

They'll keep Sleepy Joe for 2 years before they 25 him, so they can 22 Kamala.

(The 22nd amendment states that a person can serve a maximum 10 years as president. Hence, they want Special K to get 2 years after Sleepy Joe resigns, then 4 years from the 2024 election and 4 years from the 2028 election

Assuming the Constitution is still a Thing in 2024.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 08, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Yes and no. Most of that will come off federal grants towards state infrastructure and local public jobs during the next few years. They can only increase taxes so much. And even them, most states simply don't have enough of a perk for people to overpay in income and property taxes. NY and CA are going to be the states where these changes will likely affect the most. Manhattan tolls will likely increase to $20 in the next five years as well and then there's no guarantee another large scale global event won't affect the world again. Forget about national debt, this is the only thing where it's almost safe to say that will never get paid off in today's world.   
No, this is pure inflation. They're not funding the stimulus with explicit taxes, the Fed is just making new money out of nothing. Since they're increasing the number of dollars without adding any new value, that means each dollar will eventually buy less and less. It's a tax, but a hidden one, and one that affects not just your income, but also your savings. They've kept that bill from coming due with monetary policy, but it's had a lot of negative effects, and it's an open question how long they can keep kicking the can down the road.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on November 09, 2020, 12:13:47 AM
No, this is pure inflation. They're not funding the stimulus with explicit taxes, the Fed is just making new money out of nothing. Since they're increasing the number of dollars without adding any new value, that means each dollar will eventually buy less and less. It's a tax, but a hidden one, and one that affects not just your income, but also your savings. They've kept that bill from coming due with monetary policy, but it's had a lot of negative effects, and it's an open question how long they can keep kicking the can down the road.

The balloon's gonna pop sooner or later. Apparently nothing was learned from 07-08. Inflation is a common problem in South America, when you cross that line there's no turning back. Politicians will be too busy pointing fingers and blaming each other. Next comes mass corruption, then before we know it we are a 3rd world country. Whether this pandemic was intentional or not China will have gained major economical advantage. Our best bet would be if the UN came to some sort of agreement this pandemic was largely caused due to negligence by China, and they would be responsible for repairs but then they wouldn't settle for it. WWIII?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 09, 2020, 12:20:31 AM
I don't agree. Plenty of dictators have been voted into power
Not really in free and fair elections.
Chavez was elected fairly, and plenty of others. What defines a dictator isn't the path to power, but what they do to consolidate it.

Quote
and dictators and democratically elected representatives both need public support.
Yes and no. There's actual support, then there's not opposing them. For a leader, simply having people not oppose them can be enough, so long as key people support them.
Don't see the distinction. Even in a functional constitutional republic, voting for someone doesn't mean you support them. You're just picking who you see as the best option. You might not agree with all of their platform. It might not even be a close fit. Furthermore, with fixed terms a la the US, you really have no control over what they actually do once they're in office. Not only that, but very few people follow what their elected representatives are up to, or even have a good idea what the job entails, so voting for someone is based more on personality and sensationalism than substance.

But if you're dissatisfied, you can vote them out. So they don't need your support, just some degree of tacit acceptance, and seeming to be better than the alternatives (seeming because a lot of what we judge leaders on is out of their control). That's not qualitatively different from a dictatorship. The main difference is the threshold is higher for a coup, because the public can't just vote them out.

And Chavez had widespread support. People love their charismatic demagogues handing out free stuff.

Quote
But the will of the governed? That's only a feature of democracies insofar as they tend to be more transparent and allow freer discourse.
It's more like this. Let's suppose I am the leader of a city of 100,000 people, each of whom provides me with $1,000 revenue on average, for $100 million in all. What do I do with this money?

Now, if they are all disarmed except for my 100-man Imperial Guard, I can give each of my Imperial Guard $500,000 - for half a million each I can find 1 man willing to shoot the other 999 unarmed protesters if he has some company. I just need to look after those 100 men really well and I can rule the other 99,900, and keep $50 million for myself.

But if I need 50,001 of them to vote for me, giving them $1,000 back isn't going to impress them much, so I can't keep that $50 million spare, I have to give all $100 million back - $2,000 each. Those 50,001 people are only $1,000 better off, though, that may not be enough to convince them, especially if they have to trudge along dirt roads and pay for a tutor for their kids and pay doctors and so on out of that. So instead I take that $100 million and spend it on roads and schools and medical clinics. This also doesn't guarantee support but at least after tossing me out at the next election they speak well of me and I might be able to get back in at some later time.

Which is to say, increasing the franchise tends to work to encourage leaders to consider the overall public good more.
That's not the public good, you just explained cronyism, special interests, and the seemingly endless growth of the welfare state as an series of escalating bribes. That's horrifically destructive because it creates a culture where the public lines up at the public trough for handouts instead of doing something productive, and since there are real stakes the conflicts between factions become vicious.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 09, 2020, 03:21:59 AM
Guess dissent is no longer patriotic again (that was fun in the shift from Bush to Obama -- the left flipped gears so fast even I was surprised).

How about some actual science? https://gnews.org/534248/

Short form: Biden's votes actually violate Benford's law, which has been used successfully to nail down Iranian election fraud (2009) and other forensic analyses.
OK, I looked it over. The raw data and the scripts are available on github, which is good. Here's the direct github link.

https://github.com/cjph8914/2020_benfords

The thing that stood out to me was how they selected the three counties for analysis. Given hundreds of counties, one will expect there to be some counties that have statistical outliers. Benford's law is a statistical tendency, not an absolute. There can and should be exceptions from it - particularly in non-random data like districts. There should be a chi-squared for the overall likelihood, not just a graph.

I'll see if I can reproduce any of the statistical analysis.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 09, 2020, 09:36:31 AM
Those things won't happen in Trump's 2nd term. The left overplayed its hand and the fraud avalanche is laughable and there's more evidence incoming. It's like a kid with a mouthful of cookies trying to tell you they have no idea what happened to the cookies. Math still works and Notorious ACB and "Uncle Clarence" are ready to rock. 

Dude, you have to show me MASSIVE vote fraud, not thousands upon thousands of instances of only a few hundred votes here or there! Also, they couldn't even wait a month before talking about a 90% effective vaccine for this fake ass pandemic.

"Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall."
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 09, 2020, 10:29:56 AM
  Perhaps this just triggers the beginning of the right wing peaceful protests?   There are irregularities with the mail in.  It was a shit show, and IMO, there should be same day in person voting only for elections, period.   They should be on Sunday, not Tuesday.  I think the rude awakening, around the country is going to come when a sizeable contingent of the right leaning people begin to view the left the way a sizeable contingent of the left views the right, as evil.  Once that ever happens, ah well, let's hope for that amicable divorce.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 09, 2020, 11:51:48 AM
It feels to me like people are mostly vaguely talking about "so much fraud" - but much of it is light on specifics, and hundreds of unproven claims of fraud don't constitute proof. I've looked into some claims, but it takes time to really dig in.

There certainly have been cases of fraud in the past - but again, Republicans have had undivided control to investigate and prosecute fraud in the 2016 election and at least a window to act on the 2018 elections. Do people think that the 2016 and 2018 elections were fair, and that only in this election has widespread fraud been a problem? Or is it that fraud was a major problem, and that Trump and congressional Republicans failed to act on it?

It seems to me that the most major claims of fraud in the 2020 general election claimed here are:

1) The Antrim County glitch that caused 6000 votes to count towards Biden. But that was caught by cross-checks, and no one official has claimed that it was intentional fraud. That county is Republican dominated, and the local officials are Republican.

2) The sworn affidavit of an election monitor in Michigan, posted by jeff37923, posted in Reply #691 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1152313/#msg1152313), claiming major problems in the process. However, jeff37923 says that Larry Correia's Facebook feed but was since taken down. (And thank you, jeff37923, for saying that it should therefore be taken with a grain of salt.)

3) A statistical analysis (https://redstate.com/scotthounsell/2020/11/05/excuse-me-while-i-call-bs-n275572) from RedState author Scott Hounsell. I tried looking into it, but it didn't give any sources for it's numbers and doesn't seem to have any cross-checks by anyone else.

4) The claim that there were more votes than registered voters in Wisconsin, advanced by Brad, followed by the claim that it was ludicrous that 90% of registered voters had voted. I don't see that there is anything here. The initial claim was wrong, and the idea that 90% is ludicrous doesn't add up given that 2016 had 87% nationally.

5) The Benford's Law analysis claim. I don't have a conclusion yet on this. This at least gives it's sources as well as code - which is good. It claims a statistical anomaly, but it doesn't give a likelihood or explain why it chose the three districts that it did.


What frustrates me is that when I look into any given claim of fraud, I feel like there is little effort to defend the claim. Instead, that claim is just abandoned and posters switch over to a different claim.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 09, 2020, 12:30:58 PM
2) The sworn affidavit of an election monitor in Michigan, posted by jeff37923, posted in Reply #691 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1152313/#msg1152313), claiming major problems in the process. However, jeff37923 says that Larry Correia's Facebook feed but was since taken down. (And thank you, jeff37923, for saying that it should therefore be taken with a grain of salt.)

What is this supposed to mean? Are you stating that because Facebook -- a leftist corporate entity that's been caught REPEATEDLY jerking conservatives around -- removed or otherwise muzzled Correia, that Correia is somehow untrustworthy?

Wow, dude. That is a serious shit-the-bed bit of idiocy there.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 09, 2020, 01:51:10 PM
What is this supposed to mean? Are you stating that because Facebook -- a leftist corporate entity that's been caught REPEATEDLY jerking conservatives around -- removed or otherwise muzzled Correia, that Correia is somehow untrustworthy?

Wow, dude. That is a serious shit-the-bed bit of idiocy there.

I am taking note of your IP, comrade, for daring question the intellectual honesty of the most esteemed poster jhkim. We will be submitting you for re-education shortly.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 09, 2020, 02:35:37 PM
It feels to me like people are mostly vaguely talking about "so much fraud" - but much of it is light on specifics, and hundreds of unproven claims of fraud don't constitute proof. I've looked into some claims, but it takes time to really dig in.

There certainly have been cases of fraud in the past - but again, Republicans have had undivided control to investigate and prosecute fraud in the 2016 election and at least a window to act on the 2018 elections. Do people think that the 2016 and 2018 elections were fair, and that only in this election has widespread fraud been a problem? Or is it that fraud was a major problem, and that Trump and congressional Republicans failed to act on it?

It seems to me that the most major claims of fraud in the 2020 general election claimed here are:

1) The Antrim County glitch that caused 6000 votes to count towards Biden. But that was caught by cross-checks, and no one official has claimed that it was intentional fraud. That county is Republican dominated, and the local officials are Republican.

2) The sworn affidavit of an election monitor in Michigan, posted by jeff37923, posted in Reply #691 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1152313/#msg1152313), claiming major problems in the process. However, jeff37923 says that Larry Correia's Facebook feed but was since taken down. (And thank you, jeff37923, for saying that it should therefore be taken with a grain of salt.)

3) A statistical analysis (https://redstate.com/scotthounsell/2020/11/05/excuse-me-while-i-call-bs-n275572) from RedState author Scott Hounsell. I tried looking into it, but it didn't give any sources for it's numbers and doesn't seem to have any cross-checks by anyone else.

4) The claim that there were more votes than registered voters in Wisconsin, advanced by Brad, followed by the claim that it was ludicrous that 90% of registered voters had voted. I don't see that there is anything here. The initial claim was wrong, and the idea that 90% is ludicrous doesn't add up given that 2016 had 87% nationally.

5) The Benford's Law analysis claim. I don't have a conclusion yet on this. This at least gives it's sources as well as code - which is good. It claims a statistical anomaly, but it doesn't give a likelihood or explain why it chose the three districts that it did.


What frustrates me is that when I look into any given claim of fraud, I feel like there is little effort to defend the claim. Instead, that claim is just abandoned and posters switch over to a different claim.

That's why the elections are being investigated. Detectives don't throw up their hands on the first day of a case and go 'Well! We have no hard evidence! Time to go home!'

Though Biden and his supporters would love for everyone to blindly accept the election "results" before they're certified.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 09, 2020, 03:10:16 PM
That's why the elections are being investigated. Detectives don't throw up their hands on the first day of a case and go 'Well! We have no hard evidence! Time to go home!'

Though Biden and his supporters would love for everyone to blindly accept the election "results" before they're certified.

Why do elections need to be investigated now? Both Republicans and Democrats sit on election committees that oversee the process at the local polls, and at the State level, where the local votes are tallied. There are overseers over the entire process of all political denominations. No one did any investigating in 2016, so why now?


Becuase the Drumpf lost. They weren't excited to investigate when he won, why not then in 2016??? He didn't lose by a narrow margin either. there are five million more votes for Biden for President than the Drumpf received. Even if some minor errors were discovered, it wouldn't be Five million votes worth. Him and his communist buddies Putin and Xi, and Poland and Hungary, and Turkey need to get the hell out of our politics.

The Drumpf really needs to run off and figure out where he can scrounge up the 400 million he is going to need to pay off Duestche bank (Run by Communists, by the way...), Angela Merkel is former STASI. I have a junior staff photo of her in a commie uniform, and that photo is of her STASI membership card.  Becuase he is totally in hock to them, and they are going to foreclose, which would be most excellent by the way. Seeing Trumps named removed from the towers in our large cities would be a vast improvement of the cities in question.

'effin hypocrites
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Steven Mitchell on November 09, 2020, 03:15:14 PM

'effin hypocrites

Yes, you are.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 09, 2020, 03:30:51 PM
2) The sworn affidavit of an election monitor in Michigan, posted by jeff37923, posted in Reply #691 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1152313/#msg1152313), claiming major problems in the process. However, jeff37923 says that Larry Correia's Facebook feed but was since taken down. (And thank you, jeff37923, for saying that it should therefore be taken with a grain of salt.)
What is this supposed to mean? Are you stating that because Facebook -- a leftist corporate entity that's been caught REPEATEDLY jerking conservatives around -- removed or otherwise muzzled Correia, that Correia is somehow untrustworthy?

Wow, dude. That is a serious shit-the-bed bit of idiocy there.
Absolutely not. This isn't about Larry Correia or Facebook. It's that there should be some sort of link or confirmation to establish the authenticity of the supposed sworn affidavit. If it is true, there should be some sort of confirmation beyond "I saw one person post this on Facebook." Previously, jeff37923 was asked for a source for what he posted, and he himself said that he couldn't find a link - and he himself said to take it with a grain of salt.

If you can find any sort of confirmation that the affidavit is real, then I would be interested and take it seriously.


That's why the elections are being investigated. Detectives don't throw up their hands on the first day of a case and go 'Well! We have no hard evidence! Time to go home!'

Though Biden and his supporters would love for everyone to blindly accept the election "results" before they're certified.
I agree that the results should be checked and confirmed, and I support investigations into possible fraud based on the amount of evidence. However, detectives also don't go "Aha! He's guilty!" and take away someone's rights when there isn't hard evidence.

Until hard evidence is brought forward, then I think we should proceed with the legal process of election.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 09, 2020, 03:32:21 PM
Him and his communist buddies Putin and Xi, and Poland and Hungary, and Turkey need to get the hell out of our politics.

Is this a joke post?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 09, 2020, 03:34:23 PM

'effin hypocrites

Yes, you are.

....awwww ....are you just mad because I'm telling the truth about the Republican scumbags that support DICKtaters and who want to be on their knees bobbin for Putin and Xi?

...on your knees with the rest of them then!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 09, 2020, 03:35:53 PM
I see, so GameDaddy actually IS a delusional retard. Neat.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 09, 2020, 03:39:47 PM
I see, so GameDaddy actually IS a delusional retard. Neat.

Me? You are the one that seems to be trying to get a man elected President that owes the Germans, and the Russians money, as in four hundred million dollars. His failed real estate empire should imminently collapse, and suck down anything close to him. It's best the rest of us Americans aren't close to him when that happens.

Not that Biden is any better, being in bed with the Red Chinese and all...

Our political system is failing us Americans, and you are ok with that?
 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 09, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
2) The sworn affidavit of an election monitor in Michigan, posted by jeff37923, posted in Reply #691 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1152313/#msg1152313), claiming major problems in the process. However, jeff37923 says that Larry Correia's Facebook feed but was since taken down. (And thank you, jeff37923, for saying that it should therefore be taken with a grain of salt.)
What is this supposed to mean? Are you stating that because Facebook -- a leftist corporate entity that's been caught REPEATEDLY jerking conservatives around -- removed or otherwise muzzled Correia, that Correia is somehow untrustworthy?

Wow, dude. That is a serious shit-the-bed bit of idiocy there.
Absolutely not. This isn't about Larry Correia or Facebook. It's that there should be some sort of link or confirmation to establish the authenticity of the supposed sworn affidavit. If it is true, there should be some sort of confirmation beyond "I saw one person post this on Facebook." Previously, jeff37923 was asked for a source for what he posted, and he himself said that he couldn't find a link - and he himself said to take it with a grain of salt.

If you can find any sort of confirmation that the affidavit is real, then I would be interested and take it seriously.


That's why the elections are being investigated. Detectives don't throw up their hands on the first day of a case and go 'Well! We have no hard evidence! Time to go home!'

Though Biden and his supporters would love for everyone to blindly accept the election "results" before they're certified.
I agree that the results should be checked and confirmed, and I support investigations into possible fraud based on the amount of evidence. However, detectives also don't go "Aha! He's guilty!" and take away someone's rights when there isn't hard evidence.

Until hard evidence is brought forward, then I think we should proceed with the legal process of election.

And we are. I'll give Biden the same benefit of the doubt that Democrats gave Trump for four years of accusations of Russian collusion. ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 09, 2020, 04:13:43 PM
Me? You are the one that seems to be trying to get a man elected President that owes the Germans, and the Russians money, as in four hundred million dollars. His failed real estate empire should imminently collapse, and suck down anything close to him. It's best the rest of us Americans aren't close to him when that happens.

Not that Biden is any better, being in bed with the Red Chinese and all...

Our political system is failing us Americans, and you are ok with that?

You're gonna have to type a lot louder, your delusions aren't making quite as much noise here as this isn't a leftist echo chamber.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 09, 2020, 04:26:44 PM
And we are. I'll give Biden the same benefit of the doubt that Democrats gave Trump for four years of accusations of Russian collusion. ;)

Heh. ;) That's fine by me, Ratman_tf - and to be expected. Thanks for some light-heartedness.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Garry G on November 09, 2020, 04:31:22 PM
Sorry but I don't know how the US ballots work. Are the Senate ballots separate?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 09, 2020, 04:36:56 PM
2) The sworn affidavit of an election monitor in Michigan, posted by jeff37923, posted in Reply #691 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1152313/#msg1152313), claiming major problems in the process. However, jeff37923 says that Larry Correia's Facebook feed but was since taken down. (And thank you, jeff37923, for saying that it should therefore be taken with a grain of salt.)

What is this supposed to mean? Are you stating that because Facebook -- a leftist corporate entity that's been caught REPEATEDLY jerking conservatives around -- removed or otherwise muzzled Correia, that Correia is somehow untrustworthy?

Wow, dude. That is a serious shit-the-bed bit of idiocy there.

You get used to it from jhkim after a while.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 09, 2020, 04:41:02 PM
That's why the elections are being investigated. Detectives don't throw up their hands on the first day of a case and go 'Well! We have no hard evidence! Time to go home!'

Though Biden and his supporters would love for everyone to blindly accept the election "results" before they're certified.

Why do elections need to be investigated now? Both Republicans and Democrats sit on election committees that oversee the process at the local polls, and at the State level, where the local votes are tallied. There are overseers over the entire process of all political denominations. No one did any investigating in 2016, so why now?


Becuase the Drumpf lost. They weren't excited to investigate when he won, why not then in 2016??? He didn't lose by a narrow margin either. there are five million more votes for Biden for President than the Drumpf received. Even if some minor errors were discovered, it wouldn't be Five million votes worth. Him and his communist buddies Putin and Xi, and Poland and Hungary, and Turkey need to get the hell out of our politics.

The Drumpf really needs to run off and figure out where he can scrounge up the 400 million he is going to need to pay off Duestche bank (Run by Communists, by the way...), Angela Merkel is former STASI. I have a junior staff photo of her in a commie uniform, and that photo is of her STASI membership card.  Becuase he is totally in hock to them, and they are going to foreclose, which would be most excellent by the way. Seeing Trumps named removed from the towers in our large cities would be a vast improvement of the cities in question.

'effin hypocrites

Considering that a few of the complaints are that Republican overseers were not allowed in the room while Democrats counted ballots should give you enough cause to shut up and wait for investigations to proceed, that is if you weren't a hyper-partisan hypocrite.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 09, 2020, 05:41:17 PM
Sorry but I don't know how the US ballots work. Are the Senate ballots separate?
No. The ballot starts with the presidential candidates at the top and everything else descending down the page(s) from there (depending on where you are--if your state doesn't have a senator up for re-election, then they won't be on there).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Garry G on November 09, 2020, 05:46:46 PM
Why didn't they fix the Senate as well then? I'd have totally fixed the Senate cos I hear the Senate can do stuff. Won't the Senate just block everything and stop the Marxist apocalypse? Fucking amateurs.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 09, 2020, 05:50:53 PM
Mostly because they are establishment fuckers who have more reason to support the democrats than help out Trump.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 09, 2020, 05:54:03 PM
State, County and local elections are on the backside of the ballot. At the local level they are immediately counted when they are entered using an electronic process that is supervised by an election committee composed of Republicans, Democrats, and Independents that oversees the county process at the local polling station. The votes are electronically tallied immediately, then forwarded to the State counting center.

The mail in Ballots go directly to the State counting center where they are tallied in a similar matter with oversight from a bipartisan election committee. The mail-in results are then forwarded back to local election officials. The local officials deliver the ballot boxes with the actual ballots so they can be recounted at the state election committee facility. It's really difficult to interfere with the tally process without the election committees knowing.

The Republicans are whining about the mail-in ballots. I have three comments about this...

1) Maybe they shouldn't have screwed with the post office earlier this year.... and...

2) Mail-in voters not trusting the local process typically vote 3-1 in favor of democrats, so the more mailin votes that are actually counted, the worse the rersults will be for republicans, any recounts will not benefit them.

3) The Drumpf told his followers not to mail-in their votes, but to vote in person, further reducing the number of Republican votes that will be tallied by any late mail-in results.

Basically, they created their own problem with this, that has nothing to do with democrats and everything to do with their dysfucntional way of dealing with anything (the post office, cough, cough) that isn't part of the Republican party. Any recounts won't benefit them.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 09, 2020, 06:37:35 PM
All this "unity" and "healing" babble is beyond hysterically delusional.

No matter what happens, DIVISION is the future.

And not polite division either.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 09, 2020, 06:43:13 PM
Why didn't they fix the Senate as well then? I'd have totally fixed the Senate cos I hear the Senate can do stuff. Won't the Senate just block everything and stop the Marxist apocalypse? Fucking amateurs.
  I guess for some reason you assume republican senators would not go along with Biden.  Biden is not communist, though he does have a rather loud contingent of social marxists in his party, and one waiting for him to stroke out and she become president.  Biden is going to do EXACTLY what a republican senate wants him to  do.  Sign some shit trade deals (shit for americans, great for multinational corps), get us into a war with...I would bet syria,  and generally do business as usual, as per neocon and neoliberal (aka warmongering and growing the government) policies as directed by corporate paymasters.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 09, 2020, 07:30:41 PM
The Drumpf really needs to run off and figure out where he can scrounge up the 400 million he is going to need to pay off Duestche bank (Run by Communists, by the way...), Angela Merkel is former STASI. I have a junior staff photo of her in a commie uniform, and that photo is of her STASI membership card.  Becuase he is totally in hock to them, and they are going to foreclose, which would be most excellent by the way. Seeing Trumps named removed from the towers in our large cities would be a vast improvement of the cities in question.

'effin hypocrites

The problem that I have with many RPG posters is that, although they are absolutely top notch experts on Medieval history, they suck donkey balls with modern finance.

For example, you do not "pay off" investment real estate and you do not "foreclose" just because you want to.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 09, 2020, 08:16:13 PM
Oh look...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/live_results/2020/president/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 09, 2020, 08:36:04 PM
INFO DUMP:
https://amgreatness.com/2020/11/06/a-2nd-u-s-postal-service-worker-in-pa-comes-forward-to-accuse-supervisors-of-backdating-late-ballots-to-nov-3/

https://twitter.com/LizRNC/status/1325818174001061894?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1325818174001061894%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fx22report.com%2Fjb-sends-the-message-gsa-destroys-the-msm-election-call-trump-counterpunch-coming-ep-2324%2F

https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1325803289955487744?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1325803289955487744%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fx22report.com%2Fjb-sends-the-message-gsa-destroys-the-msm-election-call-trump-counterpunch-coming-ep-2324%2F

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/11/08/researchers-question-reliability-of-dominion-voting-systems-election-systems-software/
https://apnews.com/article/ec2374b3f4aa6d8e628b75724cb4caeb

https://twitter.com/M2Madness/status/1325889509024813056?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1325889509024813056%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fx22report.com%2Fjb-sends-the-message-gsa-destroys-the-msm-election-call-trump-counterpunch-coming-ep-2324%2F

https://twitter.com/illdiscourse/status/1325875644056690689?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1325875644056690689%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fx22report.com%2Fjb-sends-the-message-gsa-destroys-the-msm-election-call-trump-counterpunch-coming-ep-2324%2F

https://freebeacon.com/2020-election/top-usaid-official-tells-agency-leadership-there-is-no-transition-in-place/

https://conservativefiringline.com/the-take-down-of-trump-ala-the-color-revolution-norm-eisens-revolutionary-playbook-a-deeply-embedded-demster-lawfare-operative-regime-change-professionals-amp/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 09, 2020, 09:01:10 PM
All this "unity" and "healing" babble is beyond hysterically delusional.

No matter what happens, DIVISION is the future.

And not polite division either.

Greetings!

You know that's right, my friend!

The fire is gonna come down!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on November 09, 2020, 09:26:28 PM
According to Rudy, this isn’t over yet.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 09, 2020, 10:41:27 PM
Greetings!

Excellent commentary, Gamedaddy! Thank you. All of the sordid, scummy fucking details of how greedy, corrupt, and evil Biden and company are doesn't surprise me at all. It's great to get a deeper look into the details, Gamedaddy!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Alright, all the details then....

Here's a link to Angela Merkels Stasi ID card. She was totally in bed with the Russians back in the 80's. Reunification and all, ...however I still harbor a deep distrust of the East Germans along with their NKVD handlers who served Stalin and Khruschev. Might have been the number of times they pointed loaded PPSh-41's at me when I was just a kid looking at them across the Berlin Wall. Might have been the number of times I heard them shooting and throwing grenades at East Germans citizens that were only trying to be free, and fleeing to the West. Might have been how the Stasi worked like the NKVD turning German Families against each other, children against parents, parents against children, neighbors against neighbors, and woah and behold, there's Angela, an officer of the Stasi, working her people (spies, informants, and slaves) in the East, and then the Berlin wall fell. No clue how she ended up Chancellor of Germany. Very happy I'm not living there any more. Once a commie, always a commie. Drumpf owes them lots of money, go figure. She says she was approached by Stasi, but quickly turned them down. I have additional information that suggests otherwise... Like for example, ...her dad was the only West German who ever defected to East Germany, but there is more...

(https://i.imgur.com/HZJPsyR.jpg)

A bit more for you on Angela Merkels background...
https://therealslog.com/2013/07/11/merkels-murky-past-more-evidence-of-her-youth-movementstasi-past-in-the-ddr/ (https://therealslog.com/2013/07/11/merkels-murky-past-more-evidence-of-her-youth-movementstasi-past-in-the-ddr/)

Another photo of Angela Merkel in her commie uniform...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328536/Angela-Merkel-Communist-links-new-image-uniform-released.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328536/Angela-Merkel-Communist-links-new-image-uniform-released.html)

Now, on to Bidens wall of shame. Look and download all the info off the links that I provide. Pretty sure much of this might inexplicably and mysteriously go away in the very near future...

Just a couple things to get started. Back in 2013, Robert "Hunter" Biden accompanied his Dad on a trip on AF2 to Red China where Joe Biden was going to talk to Premier Xi about opening up trade with the West, and working other important matters like convincing the Chinese to stop hacking into American Corporate and Government servers and stuff to conduct technology theft and espionage (Which the Chinese continue to do, by the way, they completely ignored Joe's request, and pretty much redoubled their efforts the very same year the North Koreans hacked Sony. Last year the FBI kicked out about a thousand Chinese spies, and sent them back to China.) With his primary missions a failure, two weeks after Joe and Hunter returned from China, Hunter started up a new company, which then received a generous infusion of Chinese Stock. In my post below you can see the actual Chinese corporate filing, and Hunter's ownership confirmed in a three way split in 2015, between him, John Kerrys son, and Whitey Bulgers nephew (Ya, the organized crime boss from Boston that was caught in California just a couple of year back.. Another Hunter Biden BFFL.

My earlier FB post showing Hunter Biden & Co's corporate ownership, their share in the Chinese investment company and the financial records from Rosemont Seneca Bohai, LLC.
https://www.facebook.com/dirk.collins.735/posts/2856149588042087 (https://www.facebook.com/dirk.collins.735/posts/2856149588042087)

Hunter's buddy, Devon Archer, is currently in jail and awaiting sentencing in the Lakota fraud case that I mentioned in the earlier post, becuase his case was overturned yet again, by a higher court, and he stands guilty of committing Fraud. Here is the financial records including the Morgan Stanley bank records which show the Chinese paying Robert "Hunter" Biden, and the Ukranians paying him too... and paying Devon Archer as well, since he siphons money out of this account. Eventually all the money was siphoned out before the Ponzi Scheme trial ended.  Look it over for yourself and decide the truths of this matter.

Here's a link to my post outlining the sale of Rosemont Realty in New Mexico back in 2015, to the Red Chinese. It was sold for $75 Million in a cash, so the Bidens are already cashed out and their benefactor is the Red Chinese...
https://www.facebook.com/dirk.collins.735/posts/2856315791358800 (https://www.facebook.com/dirk.collins.735/posts/2856315791358800)

Now about the emails from Hunter Bidens laptop where he outlines what shares his dad the "Big Guy" gets in these investment schemes. I'm sure you know the story about how his computer tech turned over a copy of his laptop drive to Rudy Guliani, who then turned it over to the FBI after making a copy for himself. What you don't know is the information in the emails on that hard drive was confirmed by copies of these emails on yet another hard drive that belongs to one of the losers (A former Hunter Biden buddy) who the FBI jailed for being involved in that Lakota Ponzi scheme, which by the way, sixty million dollars in bond money vanished. I didn't know anyone could buy that much hookers and blow. Anyway, in return for leniency, the loser turned over his Biden emails which matched the ones on Hunter's laptop, so when Rudy says this is not over, he's not lying since the NY District Prosecuting Attorney now has complete copies of both hard drives. Since Biden was just elected President, the FBI might choose to bury what they have, however I doubt the NY Prosecutors office will. Should be interesting.

So yeah, they done sold American Companies and Real Estate to the Red Chinese. Meanwhile everyone in America, just about, except Me and Shark, have linked arms and are singing Kumbayah over the election of Joe Biden, who seems to have some definite conflicts of interest, if any of this is even remotely true, as he will be sworn in next January.

More On Hunter Bidens web of investment companies.
https://archive.ph/O2FtS#selection-1827.205-1827.217 (https://archive.ph/O2FtS#selection-1827.205-1827.217)
   
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 09, 2020, 11:57:55 PM
Nobody is truly happy about the election outcome, it seems. There's already infighting and even tears among the Democrats. Interesting NYT article seems to have some insider info.

Representative Abigail Spanberger, who narrowly escaped defeat on Wednesday in a conservative-leaning district in Virginia that Democrats had also toiled to protect, chastised her progressive colleagues for embracing the “defund the police” movement and for not pushing back forcefully against accusations of socialism. If Democrats did not acknowledge the election results as a “failure” and change strategies, she said using an expletive for emphasis, they would be “crushed” in future elections.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/05/us/house-democrats-election-losses.html
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 10, 2020, 08:32:33 AM
Why didn't they fix the Senate as well then? I'd have totally fixed the Senate cos I hear the Senate can do stuff. Won't the Senate just block everything and stop the Marxist apocalypse? Fucking amateurs.
I have a theory, and I admit up front it's ONLY conjecture, so take with a grain of salt.

I think the Dems have been out to cheat ever since their election was 'stolen' in 2000, with Bush vs Gore. 2020 marked a number of schemes and tactics coming to fruition, with the expectation it would be enough to push them into the driver's seat.

Except it wasn't. The Dems were STILL reeling from 2016 and getting backhanded by an obnoxious real-estate developer/reality TV show host. They grossly underestimated Trump's ability to generate 'heat' (to use pro wrestling terminology). Love him or hate him, Trump generates heat like nobody else. And he has consistently brought in the crowds -- witness his 2020 rallies that the liberal media sniveled about.

Result: Trump (and GOP) voters show up in RECORD numbers and threaten to derail the whole thing. So the Dems panic. The very last thing they need is Trump getting a second term, so they scramble. Hence the surprising sloppiness of some of the shenanigans pulled. One of which was absentee/mail in ballots that were only marked for the presidency, with no other down-ticket votes made. That's what deranged things so badly.

Speaking of deranged, Twitter is banning anyone who shares that Benford's Law link. I guess math is now samizdat.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 10, 2020, 09:02:20 AM
Some of the things mentioned don’t necessarily mean cheating.

For instance, I can totally see a lot of people voting mostly Republicans for the Senate while still not giving their vote to Trump. He’s not exactly everyone’s cup of tea.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on November 10, 2020, 10:33:45 AM
Some of the things mentioned don’t necessarily mean cheating.

For instance, I can totally see a lot of people voting mostly Republicans for the Senate while still not giving their vote to Trump. He’s not exactly everyone’s cup of tea.

Ya that one's no smoking gun.  Neither is the piles of people "born" on 1/1/1900.  That's people not understanding data.

Take a look at Maidengate if you can find it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 10, 2020, 10:57:57 AM
Neither is the piles of people "born" on 1/1/1900.
At the very least, that suggests the data is corrupted. Which is not good.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 10, 2020, 12:01:00 PM
Ya that one's no smoking gun.  Neither is the piles of people "born" on 1/1/1900.  That's people not understanding data.

Take a look at Maidengate if you can find it.

The great thing about these is that they are part of official public data. I agree that these should be investigated, and if true, they should warrant major legal action.

On the other hand, I also don't believe everything that I read on Twitter.

My question to others - if there are official investigations, and the official investigations state that what was claimed on Twitter was inaccurate -- what will people's conclusion be? I'd note that the claims are widespread including many in areas in the battleground states with local Republican officials.

Either way, we should legislate election reform. The way we conduct elections has always been very haphazard, but neither party has been interested in improving things.

EDITED TO ADD: I'm also willing to look into claims myself, but there's a question of time. Right now I've downloaded the Benford's Law claims to look them over, but that will take a while to analyze.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 10, 2020, 12:20:25 PM
  Voting needs to be same day, in person.  The biggest "cheat" here that no one is going to talk about is making massive mail in voting a thing.  Those things are very, very easy to cheat with, and there is no way to prove it.  I have no idea what went on with them, or if it was cheating exactly, since to me it seems the very formation of such a thing is so far removed what founders intended to have an engaged and informed public with skin in the game deciding their leaders.....
    This was done in a method that greatly oversold the lethality of Covid (now lets hope the mink mutated version doesnt come back around and actually be as lethal as people try to proclaim it was, or worse) and the same people who were so convinced about the lethality of covid endorsed huge protests, and huge celebrations in the streets afterwards.  Sorry, there is no intellectual honesty there, and we all know, everyone posting  here, that the people operating in DC DO NOT have your best interests at heart.  I do not care what party they are.  Maybe there are 10 earnest hearts and minds out of all of congress, SCOTUS and the white house.  So I think, since we can operate in ways where we all know the institutions are certainly broken, and there are different rules for different people, why the fuck should I say follow the rules, trust the institutions? 
   I am in no way a believer Trump was ever going to fix anything, I did think he would expose, large scale the dysfunction of the institutions, and he damned sure did that.  So if you want to continue to live in a house rotting, and falling down, so be it.  I just think at some point, you have to tear down the house and rebuild.  We live in a rotted house from the sense of corruption levels and compromise and the best interests of the average US citizen. 
   Getting rid of trump has little to do with trump IMO.  It has to do with the people who are clinging to silly old ideas like national pride, a national identity, a sense of country.  People in power, like AOC and so forth are calling for documenting the people who supported trump.  Jake Tapper puts odd messages out warning people to accept elections....when that motherfucker peddled flat out conspiracy theories around russians and supported 'resistance'.  SO now suddenly political dissent is unpatriotic and un american?  A shitbird who is probably paid by china to say what he says wants to take that as his position?
  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure."   So be it rotting institutions.  I think that tree needs some new manure.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 10, 2020, 02:08:48 PM
Voting needs to be same day, in person.
Nonsense. Mail-in voting, and eventually entirely electronic voting, is the way of the future. Having improved safeguards and security to preserve integrity is the right way to go, but trying to get everyone to physically "stroll to the poll" on election day is archaic. Besides, deployed military deserve to vote too, right?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 10, 2020, 02:13:15 PM
Voting needs to be same day, in person.
Nonsense. Mail-in voting, and eventually entirely electronic voting, is the way of the future. Having improved safeguards and security to preserve integrity is the right way to go, but trying to get everyone to physically "stroll to the poll" on election day is archaic. Besides, deployed military deserve to vote too, right?
  Absentee and mail in are not close to the same thing with regard to chain of custody and you have to request an absentee ballot.  Straw man.  You can call it archaic, but it is EXTREMELY hard to cheat or use any sort of fraud.   It also requires the person who cares to vote, to actually get off their ass and take a small part of their time and go take some action.   
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 10, 2020, 02:15:07 PM
  But I most definitely agree with you, the democrats for certain will make mail in, and as soon as they can google sponsored electronic voting the norm as fast as they can.  Enjoy reaping what that sows.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 10, 2020, 02:28:48 PM
Call me lazy, but I really like mail in voting in WA. I probably wouldn't have voted this past year without it.
I have no desire to spend a day futzing around in line waiting to pull a lever to, in my case, watch Inslee get another term of ignoring the homeless and raising my taxes.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Manic Modron on November 10, 2020, 02:31:50 PM
Thought experiment for a moment.

Let's say that investigations go forward and the results don't go your way, whether that is sufficient fraud found to keep Trump in office or validation of the projected results.

What would you need to believe that you were actually in the wrong and this election was actually valid or compromised?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 10, 2020, 02:42:54 PM
  But I most definitely agree with you, the democrats for certain will make mail in, and as soon as they can google sponsored electronic voting the norm as fast as they can.  Enjoy reaping what that sows.

The funny thing is, purely electronic voting machines are most common in the Southeast within Republican territory. They've been largely rejected in many other states. Here's a map of voting technologies, with electronic voting in gray:

(https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/FT_16.11.07_votingTechnology.png)

Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/08/on-election-day-most-voters-use-electronic-or-optical-scan-ballots/ft_16-11-07_votingtechnology/


I agree that there are some vulnerabilities from mail-in voting, though I think they can be addressed.

Regardless of whether it's in-person or mail-in, though, the larger problem of trust is that many people believe that election officials themselves are untrustworthy and flagrantly cheat. In-person voting only doesn't help with that. I'm not sure what to do with that. It might be a good idea to establish independent election commissions, but most likely the people who don't trust the current commissions also won't trust independent election commissions.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 10, 2020, 02:43:13 PM
Thought experiment for a moment.

Let's say that investigations go forward and the results don't go your way, whether that is sufficient fraud found to keep Trump in office or validation of the projected results.

What would you need to believe that you were actually in the wrong and this election was actually valid or compromised?
  I have a hard time believing elections matter too much.  Period.  I knew, the moment mail in was a thing it was going to be a shitshow.  I guess if we didnt have a pool of candidates FROM ALL SIDES who are the tools of special interests and corporations and lifelong political animals I might start to have some faith?  At this point there is no result that satisfies me.  If it was somehow found that there was chicanery to the level Trump stays in office....well we all have to be fools to not think EVERY election doesnt have this bullshit going on.  I think there are reasons that republicans have no more energy to make election fraud a priority than democrats do.   This country is run by an oligarch political class that is going to do what is best for their flunkies, stock holdings, and their overseas partners in crime (china).   
   This is why I do not think the election regarding trump has too much to do with trump at all.  It is more an attempt at rebuke of some sort by the institutions and establishment powers that be that have been in absolute lock step for supporting policies that largely look like they came from the Bill Clinton administration and calling them -ist, -phobic, etc.  There is some sort of attempt at cultural erosion and cohesion that has been going on that is nefarious to me.   I think the skullduggery was engineered to look shady as fuck.  I think it is an attempt for the powers that be to provoke some of the really edgy sorts to start showing up in numbers armed, so that they can crush them and get that whole gun safety movement pushed.   
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 10, 2020, 02:46:57 PM
  But I most definitely agree with you, the democrats for certain will make mail in, and as soon as they can google sponsored electronic voting the norm as fast as they can.  Enjoy reaping what that sows.

The funny thing is, purely electronic voting machines are most common in the Southeast within Republican territory. They've been largely rejected in many other states. Here's a map of voting technologies, with electronic voting in gray:

(https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/FT_16.11.07_votingTechnology.png)

Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/08/on-election-day-most-voters-use-electronic-or-optical-scan-ballots/ft_16-11-07_votingtechnology/


I agree that there are some vulnerabilities from mail-in voting, though I think they can be addressed.

Regardless of whether it's in-person or mail-in, though, the larger problem of trust is that many people believe that election officials themselves are untrustworthy and flagrantly cheat. In-person voting only doesn't help with that. I'm not sure what to do with that. It might be a good idea to establish independent election commissions, but most likely the people who don't trust the current commissions also won't trust independent election commissions.
  What republicans do or do not do has jack shit to do with what I said.  I think the democrats want to move to online electronic voting.  I agree that voting machines are also highly suspect, but again, as I have always maintained,  If you think for some reason I am republican or think anything they do is honest as a group, I am not.  In 2016 democrats decided to take a very odd adversarial stance with the horrible white men of the United states.  They also decided to champion the ideas of boys being in the girls locker rooms and competing against them in sports.  That is insanity, and there is only one way to reach common ground with insanity.  I pass.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 10, 2020, 03:03:46 PM
Call me lazy, but I really like mail in voting in WA. I probably wouldn't have voted this past year without it.
I have no desire to spend a day futzing around in line waiting to pull a lever to, in my case, watch Inslee get another term of ignoring the homeless and raising my taxes.
I did early (in-person) voting myself: 6-mile drive and a wait time of about 10 minutes...it was about the same as grabbing a fast food meal.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Melichor on November 10, 2020, 03:10:37 PM
It's interesting that congress had hearings about voting machine security back in January:
https://cha.house.gov/committee-activity/hearings/2020-election-security-perspectives-voting-system-vendors-and-experts

The democrats had concerns then. Ten months later.... not so much.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 10, 2020, 03:32:09 PM
<-->
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 10, 2020, 03:38:53 PM
Thought experiment for a moment.

Let's say that investigations go forward and the results don't go your way, whether that is sufficient fraud found to keep Trump in office or validation of the projected results.

What would you need to believe that you were actually in the wrong and this election was actually valid or compromised?

Dunno. There's a lot of variables that I'm not familiar with. Somebody with more knowledge than me could come up with some rule or law or bit of evidence that proves or disproves things.

Personally, I don't think we'll ever get hard evidence one way or the other. Millions of people casting millions of ballots all over the country gives a ton of wiggle room to argue one way or the other. I think it's going to be nebulous and the American people are, for the most part, going to be further disilliousioned with the process but never have a smoking gun to point to.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 10, 2020, 04:02:20 PM
Dunno. There's a lot of variables that I'm not familiar with. Somebody with more knowledge than me could come up with some rule or law or bit of evidence that proves or disproves things.
I think that's true for most people. They just aren't familiar enough with the mechanics of vote tabulation to have an informed opinion. But that doesn't mean their opinion doesn't matter, or even that they're unable to make a judgment. What it means is the people responsible for handling the votes should be in the hot seat, justifying themselves, their processes, the norms, and and explaining any remediating measures they're going to take. None of this is rocket science, people can figure out it. But the correct answer is always "okay, let's investigate the claims", not "ignore the man behind the curtain." That just destroys public trust.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 10, 2020, 04:05:04 PM
What do you suppose the odds are statistically speaking that we have elections in three states PA, GA, AZ with a combined population of 15,400,000 people voting, and the separation of all three combined vote tallies is less than 50,000.

The odds are 308 to 1 the vote should be that close in three states combined.

So this is not an accident. Nor is the narrow race apparently the result of people just voting.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 10, 2020, 04:05:19 PM
Thought experiment for a moment.

Let's say that investigations go forward and the results don't go your way, whether that is sufficient fraud found to keep Trump in office or validation of the projected results.

What would you need to believe that you were actually in the wrong and this election was actually valid or compromised?
An ironclad chain of custody between the votes in question and the voters who cast them.

Provenance is key here. It's the same reason art curators get all pissy if they can't track where a given painting was -- because that opens up the prospect of forgery.

And before you say 'But, we can't do that!' that's not my fucking problem, sweetcheeks. You wanted to know what it would take; well, there you go.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 10, 2020, 04:26:27 PM
What do you suppose the odds are statistically speaking that we have elections in three states PA, GA, AZ with a combined population of 15,400,000 people voting, and the separation of all three combined vote tallies is less than 50,000.

The odds are 308 to 1 the vote should be that close in three states combined.

So this is not an accident.
There are tons of reasons to be suspicious, but that's not one of them. You're assuming that it's equally likely that nobody voted for Biden, that nobody voted for Trump, and that the vote was evenly split. It's not. Most national votes in the US are very close, and fall within a narrow range, with results even 10 or 20 percentage points off so unlikely they might as well be impossible.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 10, 2020, 04:30:48 PM
  I do find a great deal of irony in institutions that peddled the notion an election could be swung by "Russian Collusion" for damn near 4 years now feels that all we can do is honor the election results and move forward.  OR perhaps never be employable again.  I wonder if those dipshits know this is how you get people to finally do what you thought trump was doing,  provocations to hurt people in the press.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 10, 2020, 05:14:32 PM
Dunno. There's a lot of variables that I'm not familiar with. Somebody with more knowledge than me could come up with some rule or law or bit of evidence that proves or disproves things.

Personally, I don't think we'll ever get hard evidence one way or the other. Millions of people casting millions of ballots all over the country gives a ton of wiggle room to argue one way or the other. I think it's going to be nebulous and the American people are, for the most part, going to be further disilliousioned with the process but never have a smoking gun to point to.
I think that's true for most people. They just aren't familiar enough with the mechanics of vote tabulation to have an informed opinion. But that doesn't mean their opinion doesn't matter, or even that they're unable to make a judgment. What it means is the people responsible for handling the votes should be in the hot seat, justifying themselves, their processes, the norms, and and explaining any remediating measures they're going to take. None of this is rocket science, people can figure out it. But the correct answer is always "okay, let's investigate the claims", not "ignore the man behind the curtain." That just destroys public trust.

Absolutely we should investigate. But the correct answer also isn't "I *know* for certain the election was stolen because of what I read on Twitter". There needs to be some sort of vetting process and confirmation before I will believe a claim. Maybe they're true, maybe they're not - but it should wait for some sort of check.


In general, nothing can be known perfectly, but some things are more well known that others. I trust the results of an American election more than I trust the results of a Russian election or a Venezuelan election. It's roughly as trustworthy as other First World democracies. I'd estimate my trust is in the range of +-3%. That is, if a party or candidate genuinely has a 53% support or 6 points higher than the opponent, then I think they'll win that election. Most of the variance is due to purely legal manipulation - like gerrymandering, spin control, and the like. The manipulation possibilities are annoying, but it's still a huge step up from corrupt democracies and dictatorships.

Having freedom of speech, free press, and due process rights is extremely important in this. From my mind, I'm quite certain that the country is roughly evenly divided between Trump and Biden, for example. There are lots of checks of this from tons of sources. I'd put the contest between them within margin of error. But we need a process to determine one way or the other, and it should be followed honestly and fairly. Claims of fraud should be given due process, but until there is proof otherwise, the vote should be followed.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Manic Modron on November 10, 2020, 06:04:30 PM

And before you say 'But, we can't do that!' that's not my fucking problem, sweetcheeks. You wanted to know what it would take; well, there you go.
I am unconcerned with rebuttal or argument, I was curious about the answer to one question and don't actually give a shit about whatever fight you were expecting

Your other paragraphs were less bitchy though and the art gallery analogy is a good one.



In general, the answers have been interesting though, so thank you all.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 10, 2020, 06:16:23 PM
Absolutely we should investigate. But the correct answer also isn't "I *know* for certain the election was stolen because of what I read on Twitter". There needs to be some sort of vetting process and confirmation before I will believe a claim. Maybe they're true, maybe they're not - but it should wait for some sort of check.
I was just listening to NPR. They were saying that Biden won, full stop, and that Trump was making allegations of fraud, with no evidence. That's how they phrased it. They didn't say there was insufficient evidence, or that it was contested, that the number of disputed votes weren't enough to flip the election, or anything else that might admit even a shred of uncertainty. And they said it endlessly, because every single time they mentioned the allegations, they included the caveat "with no evidence". It was repeated so often, it almost became a mantra. And it wasn't presented as the opinion of the media, a broad consensus, or even something up for dispute. They certainly never even hinted that the allegations should be investigated. It was treated like a universal truth, received wisdom that needs no explanation or justification. This was accompanied by dire warnings, that Trump's failure to capitulate threatens national security, the standing of the US in the community of nations, and more.

Given that's how virtually all the media are treating the matter, why is this your priority?

But we need a process to determine one way or the other, and it should be followed honestly and fairly. Claims of fraud should be given due process, but until there is proof otherwise, the vote should be followed.
If you believe that, you should be objecting vociferously to how the media has handled this, because the vote hasn't been certified. The media does not decide who wins the election, the states do.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 10, 2020, 06:20:26 PM
I am unconcerned with rebuttal or argument, I was curious about the answer to one question and don't actually give a shit about whatever fight you were expecting

Your other paragraphs were less bitchy though and the art gallery analogy is a good one.



In general, the answers have been interesting though, so thank you all.
I apologize. My sinuses are acting up and I am quite irritated with how the media, both legacy and new-Internet, are basically doing their best Pravda impersonations.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Manic Modron on November 10, 2020, 06:24:57 PM
I am unconcerned with rebuttal or argument, I was curious about the answer to one question and don't actually give a shit about whatever fight you were expecting

Your other paragraphs were less bitchy though and the art gallery analogy is a good one.



In general, the answers have been interesting though, so thank you all.
I apologize. My sinuses are acting up and I am quite irritated with how the media, both legacy and new-Internet, are basically doing their best Pravda impersonations.
I assumed the worst from you as well, I accept your apology and offer my own.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 10, 2020, 08:18:30 PM
  I do find a great deal of irony in institutions that peddled the notion an election could be swung by "Russian Collusion" for damn near 4 years now feels that all we can do is honor the election results and move forward.  OR perhaps never be employable again.  I wonder if those dipshits know this is how you get people to finally do what you thought trump was doing,  provocations to hurt people in the press.

Yep. I have no sympathy for anyone who breathed a word of russian interference and now want us to believe this election was straight up because their guy won.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 10, 2020, 08:53:51 PM
  I do find a great deal of irony in institutions that peddled the notion an election could be swung by "Russian Collusion" for damn near 4 years now feels that all we can do is honor the election results and move forward.  OR perhaps never be employable again.  I wonder if those dipshits know this is how you get people to finally do what you thought trump was doing,  provocations to hurt people in the press.

Yep. I have no sympathy for anyone who breathed a word of russian interference and now want us to believe this election was straight up because their guy won.

The main stream news in NZ is reporting that foreign countries are already calling Biden to claim their markers.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on November 10, 2020, 09:11:34 PM
  I do find a great deal of irony in institutions that peddled the notion an election could be swung by "Russian Collusion" for damn near 4 years now feels that all we can do is honor the election results and move forward.  OR perhaps never be employable again.  I wonder if those dipshits know this is how you get people to finally do what you thought trump was doing,  provocations to hurt people in the press.

Yep. I have no sympathy for anyone who breathed a word of russian interference and now want us to believe this election was straight up because their guy won.

Word.  No doubt all of our enemies are running interference campaigns just as we are doing the same to them. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 10, 2020, 10:15:40 PM
Remember the video of the postal worker who says he helped commit fraud to help Biden, posted earlier in this thread? You know, the one that Project Veritas was all over?

Yeah, he admits now he made the whole thing up. Link (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/postal-worker-admits-fabricating-allegations-of-ballot-tampering-officials-say)

Gee, who could have possibly seen that coming? Oh right.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 10, 2020, 10:52:15 PM
Remember the video of the postal worker who says he helped commit fraud to help Biden, posted earlier in this thread? You know, the one that Project Veritas was all over?

Yeah, he admits now he made the whole thing up. Link (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/postal-worker-admits-fabricating-allegations-of-ballot-tampering-officials-say)

Gee, who could have possibly seen that coming? Oh right.

LOL https://youtu.be/ibU5KVFCg4Y
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on November 10, 2020, 10:54:42 PM
I really need to call Project Veritas with some bullshit so I can get dat sweet GoFundMe chinga ching ching  8)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 10, 2020, 11:29:21 PM
Pollster analyzing the polls and election results. Warning, it's stupidly long, he seems to be speaking to his existing audience so there were references I didn't catch, and it can be hard to follow at times, but there's some good content.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em0R9DRSbIE
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 10, 2020, 11:50:38 PM
Remember the video of the postal worker who says he helped commit fraud to help Biden, posted earlier in this thread? You know, the one that Project Veritas was all over?

Yeah, he admits now he made the whole thing up. Link (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/postal-worker-admits-fabricating-allegations-of-ballot-tampering-officials-say)

Gee, who could have possibly seen that coming? Oh right.

LOL https://youtu.be/ibU5KVFCg4Y

$10 says he is full of shit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 11, 2020, 02:31:24 AM
Math continues to be totally racist.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-exclusive-analysis-election-night-data-states-shows-millions-votes-either-switched-president-trump-biden-lost/ (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-exclusive-analysis-election-night-data-states-shows-millions-votes-either-switched-president-trump-biden-lost/)


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 11, 2020, 02:32:24 AM
What would you need to believe that you were actually in the wrong and this election was actually valid or compromised?

A lobotomy.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 11, 2020, 02:33:59 AM
The main stream news in NZ is reporting that foreign countries are already calling Biden to claim their markers.

Did they mention which countries? That would be an interesting list to drop some harm upon.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on November 11, 2020, 02:43:43 AM
These websites are just people making cash off Trump hysteria.  Trump is the key to the future of the the RNC.  He’s activated a base that is wasn’t politically active before.  Young disenfranchised people mainly.  Especially considering the bulk of the hardcore republicans used to be old people who will keep dying out.  People who believe everything he says and disbelieve his enemies.  Frankly his “fake news” angle was brilliant.  I’m no democrat.  Biden is a corrupt politician but I’m glad he won.  Now Trump can’t embarrass himself and the nation behind a whitehouse podium. I can’t wait for his new Trump TV network.  Will you guys be tuning in?  Simps.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 11, 2020, 03:15:16 AM
Remember the video of the postal worker who says he helped commit fraud to help Biden, posted earlier in this thread? You know, the one that Project Veritas was all over?

Yeah, he admits now he made the whole thing up. Link (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/postal-worker-admits-fabricating-allegations-of-ballot-tampering-officials-say)

Gee, who could have possibly seen that coming? Oh right.

LOL https://youtu.be/ibU5KVFCg4Y


$10 says he is full of shit.

But *never* Bezos's blog or the Carlos Slim Times, amirite?!  Trump's been a Russian agent since 1983! 

"Losing" has never been this much fun.  Everywhere the gaslighting machine plants its flag, it gets shit on its face.  It is very upset that people don't uncritically believe certain things anymore, as this is apparently necessary for democracy as they envision it.

Meanwhile Biden voters can't stop wailing about a sense of impending doom.

And the Left keeps reminding the Lincoln Project it didn't even promise to eat them last, as envisioned.



(https://i.imgur.com/xqyY9GH.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 11, 2020, 04:02:30 AM
Remember the video of the postal worker who says he helped commit fraud to help Biden, posted earlier in this thread? You know, the one that Project Veritas was all over?

Yeah, he admits now he made the whole thing up. Link (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/postal-worker-admits-fabricating-allegations-of-ballot-tampering-officials-say)

Gee, who could have possibly seen that coming? Oh right.

LOL https://youtu.be/ibU5KVFCg4Y


$10 says he is full of shit.

But *never* Bezos's blog or the Carlos Slim Times, amirite?!  Trump's been a Russian agent since 1983! 

"Losing" has never been this much fun.  Everywhere the gaslighting machine plants its flag, it gets shit on its face.  It is very upset that people don't uncritically believe certain things anymore, as this is apparently necessary for democracy as they envision it.

Meanwhile Biden voters can't stop wailing about a sense of impending doom.

And the Left keeps reminding the Lincoln Project it didn't even promise to eat them last, as envisioned.



(https://i.imgur.com/xqyY9GH.jpg)

Greetings!

*LAUGHING* Oh, geesus, EOTB, that meme of yours made me choke laughing on my coffee! I love Vader, of course, but the Clarence Thomas one...oh man. So fucking sweet!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 11, 2020, 06:08:56 AM
And that’s what we all should be doing!

Why argue with bitter shrew spergs that demand “proof”?  No one *here* could have it at this point and they know that very well.  Engaging them on that ground is the single solitary ground on earth weaker than that which they occupy; it’s the epitome of bad faith in their part

Laugh at them.  anyone here allied with the NYT crowd can not win. They have no victim hierarchy points.  It doesn’t matter what happens next.  Even if every fear of the Trumpian right comes to pass in a mad max hunger games, they end up locked in the same gulag as...us.  After we’ve already taken the good bunks

If we win, they’re out in the cold with only progressive women for solace

That’s some fine political acumen, right there.  Enjoy “but that’s not how this is supposed to work” wailed repeatedly in the near future by a class of men that make Gollum look like General Anthony McAuliffe.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 11, 2020, 07:59:20 AM
The line that the postal worker recanted came out of Adam 'shifty' Schiff's office. Some of you should know better than that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 11, 2020, 09:17:19 AM
$10 says he is full of shit.

"Show me proof!'
*proof*
"No, that doesn't count!!!!!!!!"

This is getting pathetic...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 11, 2020, 10:00:36 AM
$10 says he is full of shit.

"Show me proof!'
*proof*
"No, that doesn't count!!!!!!!!"

This is getting pathetic...
  THere was NO EVIDENCE OF FRAUD!!
  THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF SUBSTANTIAL FRAUD!!
  THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH FRAUD TO SWAY AN ELECTION!!
  EVERY BODY DOES IT ITS BEST FOR THE NATION!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Abraxus on November 11, 2020, 10:17:49 AM
  THere was NO EVIDENCE OF FRAUD!!
  THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF SUBSTANTIAL FRAUD!!
  THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH FRAUD TO SWAY AN ELECTION!!
  EVERY BODY DOES IT ITS BEST FOR THE NATION!!!

The Left and those friends who I know are Leftists are not making a good showing.

No matter what one can show them 1000 instances of voter fraud and it's not going to matter. Since it goes against the carefully constructed personal narratives about hating Trump. Nothing and I mean nothing can go against the narrative.

A few of my friends who should know better on Facebook got on my case when I pointed out the hypocrisy of both the media and Biden supporters at the lack of any proper social distancing and quarantining when they were celebrating Biden win on the weekend.

Essentially I was called out for being a bad person "but sureshot it's ok they all have masks". When the fucking media the same fucking FB posters kept and keep saying how bad Trump handled the Covid-19 situation. But hey at least the favored candidate won and masks are supposed to make one 100% proof against the virus. So Biden winning means not having to do any social distancing.

Both sides Right and Left hate when the narrative is not followed. The leftist come out looking like fucking absolute hypocrites though.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 11, 2020, 10:47:30 AM
This won't be evidence to the evidence crowd either, but its a very interesting account from a contract worker for dominion on her experience assisting poll workers on election night.  She also is putting it in an affidavit (affidavit shown at about 18 min), and she makes specific accusations against people who could sue the hell out of her if she were lying.

The link below starts about 2.5 min into the video, after all the intro non-story stuff, when it gets to the actual interview.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/798796260?t=0h2m35s
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 11, 2020, 10:56:59 AM
  Isnt there a crime commission theory along the lines of when you catch a criminal they have committed somewhere between 7-10 times that amount of crimes prior to getting caught.....
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 11, 2020, 11:28:27 AM
This won't be evidence to the evidence crowd either, but its a very interesting account from a contract worker for dominion on her experience assisting poll workers on election night.  She also is putting it in an affidavit (affidavit shown at about 18 min), and she makes specific accusations against people who could sue the hell out of her if she were lying.

The link below starts about 2.5 min into the video, after all the intro non-story stuff, when it gets to the actual interview.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/798796260?t=0h2m35s

Affidavits from named people putting their reputations on the line are total horseshit compared to nebulous allegations from an unnamed source who overheard a conversation of someone else talking about a telephone call they overheard across the room. Gosh!

  Isnt there a crime commission theory along the lines of when you catch a criminal they have committed somewhere between 7-10 times that amount of crimes prior to getting caught.....

Sounds reasonable to me. It's not like drug dealers and thieves typically have only committed a single act before they're caught; probably countless crimes they committed before the cops were ever aware of any wrongdoing.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 11, 2020, 11:32:37 AM
This won't be evidence to the evidence crowd either, but its a very interesting account from a contract worker for dominion on her experience assisting poll workers on election night.  She also is putting it in an affidavit (affidavit shown at about 18 min), and she makes specific accusations against people who could sue the hell out of her if she were lying.

The link below starts about 2.5 min into the video, after all the intro non-story stuff, when it gets to the actual interview.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/798796260?t=0h2m35s

Affidavits from named people putting their reputations on the line are total horseshit compared to nebulous allegations from an unnamed source who overheard a conversation of someone else talking about a telephone call they overheard across the room. Gosh!

  Isnt there a crime commission theory along the lines of when you catch a criminal they have committed somewhere between 7-10 times that amount of crimes prior to getting caught.....

Sounds reasonable to me. It's not like drug dealers and thieves typically have only committed a single act before they're caught; probably countless crimes they committed before the cops were ever aware of any wrongdoing.

  "American Values" seem to be extremely malleable, and I am getting a bit tired of one side always telling me what is or is not "American". Due process was "American" now it is not.  Accepting election results is "American Values", but before dissent was "American Values" I think people better harken back to 1776 and remember what is most American.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 11, 2020, 01:33:36 PM
  "American Values" seem to be extremely malleable, and I am getting a bit tired of one side always telling me what is or is not "American". Due process was "American" now it is not.  Accepting election results is "American Values", but before dissent was "American Values" I think people better harken back to 1776 and remember what is most American.
Throwing tea into Boston Harbor? :D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 11, 2020, 02:25:06 PM
Meet Michigan's "Dead" Voters...

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/meet-michigans-dead-voters-theyre-quite-alive-despite-false-fraud-claims?fbclid=IwAR2W0dHoJ_TkXaFoOh0350-fbLCWhEKuAZuURkiiXjATYi8qd8pe9KYYdi0
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 11, 2020, 02:33:16 PM
The Secretary of State of Georgia has ordered a hand recount of all votes in the state. Since it's manual, this'll reveal if there's a problem with the software. Most recounts are of a couple thousand votes, so the scale is also remarkable. Biden's lead is 14,000 out of almost 5,000,000 votes.

Edit: Okay, they're sorting them by hand, and then running them through a machine to count them. Which seems to defeat the purpose.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 11, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
The line that the postal worker recanted came out of Adam 'shifty' Schiff's office. Some of you should know better than that.

It came from the investigators themselves.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 11, 2020, 04:30:57 PM
$10 says he is full of shit.

"Show me proof!'
*proof*
"No, that doesn't count!!!!!!!!"

This is getting pathetic...

It's not proof that he changed his mind in public to raise cash but in private he told investigators he made it all up. But more importantly you have a bet offer on the table and have not responded to it. So pucker up, buttercup. If you think this is "proof" it should be an easy bet, right? It can be done as a donation to the others preferred charity, if that's how you want to do it. Hell we can scrap the money and make it just the winner chooses the losers avatar for a month, if that's what you want. But are you willing to take the bet?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 11, 2020, 04:46:40 PM
The line that the postal worker recanted came out of Adam 'shifty' Schiff's office. Some of you should know better than that.

It came from the investigators themselves.
  Who remained anonymous correct?  I say that because anonymous sources also gave us awesome stuff like hooker pee and such.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on November 11, 2020, 04:57:55 PM
Mistwell, just carrying water for your team. Even if this one person turns out to be a weak link, there are hundreds of sworn affidavits.

https://gellerreport.com/2020/11/sworn-affidavits-from-nevada-michigan-detail-massive-voter-fraud-details.html/

Trump gets his day in court whether you like it or not.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 11, 2020, 05:16:02 PM
It's not proof that he changed his mind in public to raise cash but in private he told investigators he made it all up. But more importantly you have a bet offer on the table and have not responded to it. So pucker up, buttercup. If you think this is "proof" it should be an easy bet, right? It can be done as a donation to the others preferred charity, if that's how you want to do it. Hell we can scrap the money and make it just the winner chooses the losers avatar for a month, if that's what you want. But are you willing to take the bet?

You're legitimately pathetic. Seriously.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 11, 2020, 05:21:03 PM
Remember the video of the postal worker who says he helped commit fraud to help Biden, posted earlier in this thread? You know, the one that Project Veritas was all over?

Yeah, he admits now he made the whole thing up. Link (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/postal-worker-admits-fabricating-allegations-of-ballot-tampering-officials-say)

Gee, who could have possibly seen that coming? Oh right.

LOL https://youtu.be/ibU5KVFCg4Y


$10 says he is full of shit.

But *never* Bezos's blog or the Carlos Slim Times, amirite?!  Trump's been a Russian agent since 1983! 

"Losing" has never been this much fun.  Everywhere the gaslighting machine plants its flag, it gets shit on its face.  It is very upset that people don't uncritically believe certain things anymore, as this is apparently necessary for democracy as they envision it.

Meanwhile Biden voters can't stop wailing about a sense of impending doom.

And the Left keeps reminding the Lincoln Project it didn't even promise to eat them last, as envisioned.


I've never once said or implied Trump is in bed with Russia. You must have me confused with someone else. I just think he lost the election.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 11, 2020, 05:22:13 PM
It's not proof that he changed his mind in public to raise cash but in private he told investigators he made it all up. But more importantly you have a bet offer on the table and have not responded to it. So pucker up, buttercup. If you think this is "proof" it should be an easy bet, right? It can be done as a donation to the others preferred charity, if that's how you want to do it. Hell we can scrap the money and make it just the winner chooses the losers avatar for a month, if that's what you want. But are you willing to take the bet?

You're legitimately pathetic. Seriously.

So the answer is no, you're a coward, and you are not even willing to back up your convictions with a simple bet concerning avatars. Gotcha. Exactly what I thought.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 11, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Affidavits from named people putting their reputations on the line are total horseshit compared to nebulous allegations from an unnamed source who overheard a conversation of someone else talking about a telephone call they overheard across the room. Gosh!

Two years ago here on this forum, many posters vehemently argued that sworn affidavits didn't even count as evidence, because it's human nature for people to lie. (This was during the Kavanaugh hearings.)

I'll say the same thing I did then - sworn affidavits are not absolute proof, but they are evidence. They come down to how trustworthy the person in the affidavit is. A convicted drug addict or sex offender is going to be less believable than a respected officer or judge. There should be an investigation to to some basic vetting of the affidavits on both sides, and if it's believable, then there should be a hearing to weigh the testimony.

You shouldn't believe someone just because they said it, but neither should it be dismissed. All too often, people jump in and immediately believe testimony if it's what they want to hear - which was certainly the case with many liberals during the Kavanaugh hearings.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 11, 2020, 05:31:58 PM
I've never once said or implied Trump is in bed with Russia. You must have me confused with someone else. I just think he lost the election.

Unless you believe you're the personification of Bezos's blog or Slim's rag, it would be hard to think someone made a claim about what you said.  Of course anything's possible with a lawyer and a sophist (but I repeat myself)

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 11, 2020, 05:40:22 PM
Why don't all "gimme proof" people simply come clean that they're exploiting a colloquial/technical gap.

The gimme proof people are asking for Proof, the technical term.  They are not asking for evidence, the technical term, which concerned posters are using "proof" for in the colloquial sense - which is perfectly fucking appropriate on a forum that is not a court room. 

So the gimme proof people are sitting back like smug little betas and waiting to slap down whatever evidence people bring forward because it's not "proof".  They're very happy to let this misunderstanding happen, because they're not objective and simply want to fuck with your heads.  (Because they know that proof is beyond the reasonable capability of anyone here, even it the concerns turn out to be true and valid)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 11, 2020, 05:46:47 PM
So the answer is no, you're a coward, and you are not even willing to back up your convictions with a simple bet concerning avatars. Gotcha. Exactly what I thought.

I posed a video of the guy DIRECTLY DISPUTING what you said. There is no "bet". None. You have lost, and even if Jesus himself came from the heavens, you'd insist you were correct. So kindly go fuck yourself, shill.

Two years ago here on this forum, many posters vehemently argued that sworn affidavits didn't even count as evidence, because it's human nature for people to lie. (This was during the Kavanaugh hearings.)

Oh so now you're bringing up Kavanaugh? Do you just post this shit because you honestly believe it, or are you being paid? Paid off shill who has zero recollection of an alleged event, can't even give a specific fucking year, much less date, is not the same as many, many people coming forward with the same exact story. And since you brought up Kavanaugh, fucking tons of people said Ballsy-Ford was 100% full of shit, on the record, and yet their claims were dismissed instantly.

So again, you're legitimately stupid. I mean it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 11, 2020, 06:21:52 PM
Greetings!

Well, it seems to me that with all of the many claims of fraud and corruption concerning the election, we have a duty to ensure they are thoroughly and diligently investigated. If there is no fraud and corruption proven, then good. If, however, fraud and corruption from the Democrats is proven through court proceedings, then the wheels of justice need to crush them, and they need to fucking pay. Every last one of the weasel, cock-sucking bastards.

Then, there's the thought that even if the Democrats are not caught defrauding and stealing our national election--that doesn't mean that they didn't use fraud and corruption to subvert a lawful election of the people--they just slime their way through and avoid getting caught.

Regardless of whatever is demonstrated in court, I cannot shake the feeling that the Democrats have through various ways instituted fraud in this election. Biden couldn't fill a high school gym with supporters, while Trump had thousands and thousands of people standing in long lines for HOURS at rallies, sometimes even in the rain, to attend a Trump Rally. Everywhere I look, there are trump stickers, banners, and flags. The enthusiasm for President Trump is sky fucking high, at record levels. Throughout politics, ground level campaign enthusiasm has always been viewed as a critical factor--such has been so with every political contest forever.

But somehow, the Democrats want everyone to believe that Biden won this election, and is more popular than any presidential candidate in American history? I just don't buy it. In state after state, as of Midnight or so on election night, President Trump was strongly ahead of Biden in most states, and certain to achieve victory. Then, somehow, at 0400 in the morning, in several key electoral states, boxes and boxes of votes are mysteriously found--all in support of Biden, and strangely, by the morning, Biden now had all these key states won, providing him with the victory.

And none of the fucking Democrats supporters find any of that suspicious? Any conservative that just looks at the basic sequence of events and some of the relevant details, and wants investigations made--is somehow un-American, unpatriotic, and a bitter, sore loser?

Fuck you people that believe that! That's just bullshit. There's something wrong here, it doesn't seem right, and full investigations need to be made. And until all of these crucial details are ironed out, Biden isn't fucking anything, and can sit the fuck down and wait. The Liberal fucking media and their cock-sucking shills can gargle with glass, too. This is the most important election in our lifetime, and you damn bet Conservatives and supporters of President Trump are going to demand investigations, down to every last vote and detail.

All the shrill whining coming from the cock-sucking Democrats that have been shrieking like bitches about Trump every day for the last four years, demanding investigations, trials, and litigation without end--such smug bastards and hypocrites! Fuck them! Yeah, every goddamned vote, every goddamned detail and procedure needs to be vetted and investigated. EVERY DAMN THING!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 11, 2020, 06:26:33 PM
Why don't all "gimme proof" people simply come clean that they're exploiting a colloquial/technical gap.

The gimme proof people are asking for Proof, the technical term.  They are not asking for evidence, the technical term, which concerned posters are using "proof" for in the colloquial sense - which is perfectly fucking appropriate on a forum that is not a court room.

I have been asking for and looking into evidence. I gave a list earlier of claims that I have looked into so far. My beef is that no one seems to be arguing against me regarding any of the claims. Instead, they tend just post new claims. I would love it if someone would actually argue over the evidence of a prior claim. Here are ones I've looked into so far (slight repeat from a while back):

1) The Antrim County glitch that caused 6000 votes to count towards Biden. I do not believe that this constitutes evidence of fraud. It was caught by cross-checks, and no one official has claimed that it was intentional fraud. That county is Republican dominated, and the local officials are Republican.

2) Crowder's video showing bringing a wagon and luggage into a building in Detroit where ballot counting is happening. I watched and didn't see any proof that there was any illegal activity. There was nothing on video to indicate that either the wagon or the luggage contained ballots, or that either got into the ballot-counting area without being checked.

3) A quote supposedly from a sworn affidavit of an election monitor in Michigan, posted by jeff37923, posted in Reply #691 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1152313/#msg1152313), claiming major problems in the process. jeff37923 was asked for a link to show that, but he himself said that the link was no longer there and to take it with a grain of salt. Until more evidence shows up to confirm that this the affidavit exists, I'd also say that this is not evidence.

4) A statistical analysis (https://redstate.com/scotthounsell/2020/11/05/excuse-me-while-i-call-bs-n275572) from RedState author Scott Hounsell. I tried looking into it, but it didn't give any sources for it's numbers and doesn't seem to have any cross-checks by anyone else. Until there is more offered here, this is also a dead end. I'll revisit it if anyone can provide corroboration or sources for the claims.

5) The claim that there were more votes than registered voters in Wisconsin, advanced by Brad, followed by the claim that it was ludicrous that 90% of registered voters had voted. I don't believe this claim is warranted or constitutes fraud. The initial claim was wrong, and the idea that 90% is ludicrous doesn't add up given that 2016 had 87% nationally.

6) The Benford's Law analysis claim. I don't have a conclusion yet on this. This at least gives it's sources as well as code - which is good. It claims a statistical anomaly, but it doesn't give a likelihood or explain why it chose the three districts that it did.

7) GameDaddy's claim in Reply #789 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1152671/#msg1152671) that the odds of PA, GA, and AZ were 308 to 1 that it was valid. That calculation of odds is based on the assumption that each state's vote is a random throw, and that 3% for Biden, 50% for Biden, and 97% for Biden were all equally likely. I believe this is a false assumption - which Pat also backed up.

8 ) The countering claims regarding Pennsylvania postal worker Richard Hopkins. This does constitute evidence and should be followed up on, I agree. If true, the postal manager should absolutely be prosecuted.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 11, 2020, 06:27:32 PM
< - - - >
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 11, 2020, 06:40:17 PM
But somehow, the Democrats want everyone to believe that Biden won this election, and is more popular than any presidential candidate in American history? I just don't buy it.

I haven't seen anyone claim this. Biden currently looks to be getting 50.8% of the popular vote - that's about the same as George W. Bush (50.7%). It's more than Trump (46.1%) and Bill Clinton (43.0% and 49.2%) -- and less than Obama (51.0% and 52.9%) or George H.W. Bush (53.4%). That's nowhere near the most popular in history. It's slightly below average among all presidents.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_popular_vote_margin

I agree that there should be investigation.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 11, 2020, 06:53:48 PM
And a brief follow-up to Pat:

But we need a process to determine one way or the other, and it should be followed honestly and fairly. Claims of fraud should be given due process, but until there is proof otherwise, the vote should be followed.
If you believe that, you should be objecting vociferously to how the media has handled this, because the vote hasn't been certified. The media does not decide who wins the election, the states do.

In every election for decades, the different media sources have always made their call as to the winner before the legal process of vote-counting is finalized and the Electoral College meets. The media's calls are their predictions - which don't have any legally binding power. This came up most prominently in the election of 2000, where a number of media outlets made gaffes in calling certain results in what turned out not to be the final result.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 11, 2020, 07:13:19 PM
Why don't all "gimme proof" people simply come clean that they're exploiting a colloquial/technical gap.

The gimme proof people are asking for Proof, the technical term.  They are not asking for evidence, the technical term, which concerned posters are using "proof" for in the colloquial sense - which is perfectly fucking appropriate on a forum that is not a court room.

I have been asking for and looking into evidence. I gave a list earlier of claims that I have looked into so far. My beef is that no one seems to be arguing against me regarding any of the claims. Instead, they tend just post new claims. I would love it if someone would actually argue over the evidence of a prior claim. Here are ones I've looked into so far (slight repeat from a while back):

1) The Antrim County glitch that caused 6000 votes to count towards Biden. I do not believe that this constitutes evidence of fraud. It was caught by cross-checks, and no one official has claimed that it was intentional fraud. That county is Republican dominated, and the local officials are Republican.

2) Crowder's video showing bringing a wagon and luggage into a building in Detroit where ballot counting is happening. I watched and didn't see any proof that there was any illegal activity. There was nothing on video to indicate that either the wagon or the luggage contained ballots, or that either got into the ballot-counting area without being checked.

3) A quote supposedly from a sworn affidavit of an election monitor in Michigan, posted by jeff37923, posted in Reply #691 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1152313/#msg1152313), claiming major problems in the process. jeff37923 was asked for a link to show that, but he himself said that the link was no longer there and to take it with a grain of salt. Until more evidence shows up to confirm that this the affidavit exists, I'd also say that this is not evidence.

4) A statistical analysis (https://redstate.com/scotthounsell/2020/11/05/excuse-me-while-i-call-bs-n275572) from RedState author Scott Hounsell. I tried looking into it, but it didn't give any sources for it's numbers and doesn't seem to have any cross-checks by anyone else. Until there is more offered here, this is also a dead end. I'll revisit it if anyone can provide corroboration or sources for the claims.

5) The claim that there were more votes than registered voters in Wisconsin, advanced by Brad, followed by the claim that it was ludicrous that 90% of registered voters had voted. I don't believe this claim is warranted or constitutes fraud. The initial claim was wrong, and the idea that 90% is ludicrous doesn't add up given that 2016 had 87% nationally.

6) The Benford's Law analysis claim. I don't have a conclusion yet on this. This at least gives it's sources as well as code - which is good. It claims a statistical anomaly, but it doesn't give a likelihood or explain why it chose the three districts that it did.

7) GameDaddy's claim in Reply #789 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1152671/#msg1152671) that the odds of PA, GA, and AZ were 308 to 1 that it was valid. That calculation of odds is based on the assumption that each state's vote is a random throw, and that 3% for Biden, 50% for Biden, and 97% for Biden were all equally likely. I believe this is a false assumption - which Pat also backed up.

8 ) The countering claims regarding Pennsylvania postal worker Richard Hopkins. This does constitute evidence and should be followed up on, I agree. If true, the postal manager should absolutely be prosecuted.

Again with the "that's not proof" bit.  No one is expecting anything to be proven here.  They're pointing out why it stinks, and should be audited - not recounted, but audited.  Just like the IRS audits your tax return without "proof" if it thinks something doesn't look right.

No, I don't think your presenting all the reasons for you to be skeptical of most of the listed items, here.  I don't expect to.  I'm not interested in your skeptical opinion or wish to invest effort into changing it.  It should invite derision or a re-evaluation of overall credibility in future discussions.  But that's best done without bothering to express it to the person re-evaluated.

EDIT - let's put it another way.  In another thread, your assessment of Bannon saying someone's head should be on a pike, was that this was a non-metaphorical threat of bodily harm.  I simply don't have time nor energy to attempt persuading anyone who demonstrates a cognition/context floor at that level.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 11, 2020, 08:03:19 PM
1) The Antrim County glitch that caused 6000 votes to count towards Biden. I do not believe that this constitutes evidence of fraud. It was caught by cross-checks, and no one official has claimed that it was intentional fraud. That county is Republican dominated, and the local officials are Republican.
Don't obsess about the word fraud. It's being thrown around a lot in the public sphere, but it's very hard to prove deliberate fraud, and that's not what's being alleged in any of the suits. It's not the real topic, it's just hyperbole and distraction.

What's being alleged in the suits, and what this is an example of, is an election irregularity or impropriety. That's indisputable. 6000 votes went to the wrong person. They caught it, but opens up a ton of questions about the software, which was apparently used is many other counties and states. That's more than enough to be outraged, and to demand broad recounts in order to make sure it was an isolated event. Investigation might turn up evidence of deliberate malfeasance, or might not. But that doesn't change anything we should be doing, right now.

2) Crowder's video showing bringing a wagon and luggage into a building in Detroit where ballot counting is happening. I watched and didn't see any proof that there was any illegal activity. There was nothing on video to indicate that either the wagon or the luggage contained ballots, or that either got into the ballot-counting area without being checked.

3) A quote supposedly from a sworn affidavit of an election monitor in Michigan, posted by jeff37923, posted in Reply #691 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1152313/#msg1152313), claiming major problems in the process. jeff37923 was asked for a link to show that, but he himself said that the link was no longer there and to take it with a grain of salt. Until more evidence shows up to confirm that this the affidavit exists, I'd also say that this is not evidence.

4) A statistical analysis (https://redstate.com/scotthounsell/2020/11/05/excuse-me-while-i-call-bs-n275572) from RedState author Scott Hounsell. I tried looking into it, but it didn't give any sources for it's numbers and doesn't seem to have any cross-checks by anyone else. Until there is more offered here, this is also a dead end. I'll revisit it if anyone can provide corroboration or sources for the claims.

5) The claim that there were more votes than registered voters in Wisconsin, advanced by Brad, followed by the claim that it was ludicrous that 90% of registered voters had voted. I don't believe this claim is warranted or constitutes fraud. The initial claim was wrong, and the idea that 90% is ludicrous doesn't add up given that 2016 had 87% nationally.

6) The Benford's Law analysis claim. I don't have a conclusion yet on this. This at least gives it's sources as well as code - which is good. It claims a statistical anomaly, but it doesn't give a likelihood or explain why it chose the three districts that it did.

[snip because it's a bad example]

8 ) The countering claims regarding Pennsylvania postal worker Richard Hopkins. This does constitute evidence and should be followed up on, I agree. If true, the postal manager should absolutely be prosecuted.
Are you familiar with how audits work? They almost never start with a smoking gun. You'll never find a single shot video showing someone fraudulently filling out ballots, boxing them, driving them to the election office, and slipping them in with the others. Instead, they look for red flags. Signs of impropriety. None of them are indisputable proof in themselves, because you can explain away individual cases as exceptions, using various justifications and contortions. But if there are enough of them, then it starts getting suspicious. The patterns themselves can be evidence, sufficient justification to declare an election fraudulent. That's how it works in developing countries, where independent election observers come in, and look for these kind of patterns.

There are a fuck ton of red flags in this election, and you've only mentioned a handful. There are all the vote dumps with a statistically impossible pro-Biden bias. There are all the local counts that swung toward Biden to a completely improbable degree, when compared to similar areas. There are the absentee ballots that favored Biden more than expected, by statistically improbably margins (not just 60-40 or 70-30, but things like 97-3). The fact that all these favored one side and not the other is another major red flag. The observers being barred is another. Putting up boards to block peoples' view is another. Keeping observers so far away they couldn't watch what was happening is another. And it was those areas that saw many of the statistical anomalies, which is yet another red flag.

There's a reason they put away Capone on tax charges. White collar crime is even slipperier. It's about looking for patterns, and assessing whether those patterns exceed the expected norms. That requires experiences, which none of us have. I do have some background in statistics, but it's a big country, with a lot of votes, and I've never been part of the voting apparatus. I have no idea what constitutes an improbable margin in most of these cases. But all these reported instances, especially collectively, are very worrisome. We really need some honest workers experienced with uncovering voting fraud or irregularities to investigate the whole mess, uncover more information, and put it all into context.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 11, 2020, 08:07:43 PM
< - - - >

I'm getting a playback error.

Edit: Looks like it's Youtube in general. Sites are reporting all their videos are down. Official tweet: https://twitter.com/TeamYouTube/status/1326681978037444608
... and they're back up.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 11, 2020, 08:43:31 PM
Just thought I'd put this here for historical reasons:
https://twitter.com/TomFitton/status/1326535761718554624
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-2/section-1/clause-2-4/electoral-college
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxii

He's right, of course. And people here think it's a shit-show NOW. I think it's only just begun. Also, WTF is up with YooToob? Oh, well. :/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 11, 2020, 08:52:54 PM
Just thought I'd put this here for historical reasons:
https://twitter.com/TomFitton/status/1326535761718554624
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-2/section-1/clause-2-4/electoral-college

He's right, of course. And people here think it's a shit-show NOW. I think it's only just begun. Also, WTF is up with YooToob? Oh, well. :/

I didn't think any States would go against the popular vote. That's generally a Bad Idea. But legally possible.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 11, 2020, 09:45:49 PM
In another thread, your assessment of Bannon saying someone's head should be on a pike, was that this was a non-metaphorical threat of bodily harm.  I simply don't have time nor energy to attempt persuading anyone who demonstrates a cognition/context floor at that level.
Well, if Bannon is channeling Vir Cotto, then I can see it...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 11, 2020, 10:28:51 PM
But somehow, the Democrats want everyone to believe that Biden won this election, and is more popular than any presidential candidate in American history? I just don't buy it.

I haven't seen anyone claim this. Biden currently looks to be getting 50.8% of the popular vote - that's about the same as George W. Bush (50.7%). It's more than Trump (46.1%) and Bill Clinton (43.0% and 49.2%) -- and less than Obama (51.0% and 52.9%) or George H.W. Bush (53.4%). That's nowhere near the most popular in history. It's slightly below average among all presidents.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_popular_vote_margin

I agree that there should be investigation.

Maybe you should look at total votes rather then a percentage.

51% of a hundred voters is not so impressive.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 11, 2020, 10:46:03 PM
Maybe you should look at total votes rather then a percentage.

51% of a hundred voters is not so impressive.
51% of the voters can get you over 90% of the votes if they are the voters casting thousands of votes each. ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 11, 2020, 11:03:04 PM
Oh look...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/live_results/2020/president/

Look at what? That RCP yanked PA away from Biden? It's not true; they never gave it to Biden. (If you meant something else, then go ahead and clarify.)

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/11/falsehood-tells-of-withdrawn-pennsylvania-projection/

If you really believe Trump will still win, you can make big bucks on the betting markets. There are plenty of suckers who think at least one of PA, GA and AZ are going for Biden. Put your money where your mouth is.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 11, 2020, 11:11:07 PM
Again with the "that's not proof" bit.  No one is expecting anything to be proven here.  They're pointing out why it stinks, and should be audited - not recounted, but audited.  Just like the IRS audits your tax return without "proof" if it thinks something doesn't look right

Actually, many posters are claiming that it is proven that the election was completely fraudulent. Even if you aren't one of the ones who considers it proven -- I would submit that not everything rises to the level of calls for an audit, though. I agree, for example, that the sworn testimony of named witnesses bears investigation. I also agree that the Antrim County glitch means that other counts should be checked for whether they could have had a similar error.

However, I don't agree that certain other points so constitute red flags. For example, Gamedaddy claimed his 308 to 1 odds was *proof* that the election was rigged - but I don't consider it even a red flag. It's just a mistake on his part. Other things I don't consider red flags: testimony where the only source is a deleted social media post - or claimed statistical results from a single author with no listing of source data or explanation of methods.

A lot of this seems to be "Well, if there are hundreds of Twitter posts all claiming the election was stolen - then there *must* be some truth in it, even if some of them prove wrong. There are so *many* claims, it means there's definitely something to it." I don't buy that. The only thing hundreds of Twitter posts prove is that people are strongly motivated. People can and have produced mountains of evidence for Bigfoot, UFOs, faking the Moon landing, and tons of other false beliefs. Both liberals and conservatives often believe wrong things mainly because they really want it to be true.

I'm not making any claim overall, and I agree that some things should be investigated. But I don't agree that "Well, it was said on the Internet - so that's a red flag indicating something wrong."


There are a fuck ton of red flags in this election, and you've only mentioned a handful. There are all the vote dumps with a statistically impossible pro-Biden bias. There are all the local counts that swung toward Biden to a completely improbable degree, when compared to similar areas. There are the absentee ballots that favored Biden more than expected, by statistically improbably margins (not just 60-40 or 70-30, but things like 97-3). The fact that all these favored one side and not the other is another major red flag. The observers being barred is another. Putting up boards to block peoples' view is another. Keeping observers so far away they couldn't watch what was happening is another. And it was those areas that saw many of the statistical anomalies, which is yet another red flag.

I've only mentioned a handful because (a) those were the claims that other posters specifically cited in this thread, and (b) I only have limited time to read on the subject. By emphasizing the fuckton of them, you're implying the narrative of "If there are hundreds of Twitter posts, surely something must be up." I disagree with that logic. 

Among these supposed other red flags, which few do you think are the most well-founded that would bear following up on?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 11, 2020, 11:12:51 PM
What do you suppose the odds are statistically speaking that we have elections in three states PA, GA, AZ with a combined population of 15,400,000 people voting, and the separation of all three combined vote tallies is less than 50,000.

The odds are 308 to 1 the vote should be that close in three states combined.

So this is not an accident. Nor is the narrow race apparently the result of people just voting.

The margin in PA is now more than 50,000 by itself; since the remaining votes were generally early mail-in votes (which favored Biden because Trump told his followers not to vote that way, and because Democrats were more likely to fear the coronavirus), it was pretty obvious that would be the case before it was called by anyone on Saturday You probably want to revise your talking point to WI, GA and AZ; flipping all three could give Trump a very close electoral win. Currently a lead for Biden of 47,431 out of about 11,500,000 two party votes.

What were the odds that Florida in 2000 would differ by 537 votes out of 5,963,110?

What were the odds that MI, PA and WI in 2016 would differ by 77,736 votes out of 13,967,630 voting?

Unlikely things can happen without requiring an elaborate but barely effective multistate conspiracy.

I speculate that the equilibrium in the closest swing states was close to even votes; either candidate appearing to be well in the lead in that state might lead to voters who don't like either switching to the other - trying to vote against a landslide for either candidate.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 11, 2020, 11:23:26 PM
A decisive win for Biden. The last time an incumbent president's challenger got as high a percentage of the vote* was 1932. Even Jimmy Carter held Ronald Reagan below that percentage; incumbency is clearly a powerful advantage, as it led to the only Republican popular vote win since 1988. Trump was just that bad a president and candidate.

(* Based on present vote totals; entirely possible for Biden to end up over 80 million votes and with over 51% of the popular vote.)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 11, 2020, 11:24:53 PM
I've only mentioned a handful because (a) those were the claims that other posters specifically cited in this thread, and (b) I only have limited time to read on the subject. By emphasizing the fuckton of them, you're implying the narrative of "If there are hundreds of Twitter posts, surely something must be up." I disagree with that logic. 

Among these supposed other red flags, which few do you think are the most well-founded that would bear following up on?
Bullshit, I implied nothing of the sort. Did you even read the rest of my post? You're claiming that there's a hidden message in my post. That it's supporting some third party group's line. Not only is that ridiculous, it's insulting, because you're implying that I can't think on my own.

The points I made is that there are a lot of reported red flags. Those red flags must be investigated, and nobody here is really qualified to put together the pieces because we lack the expert knowledge. I'll add that even if we can assesses individual irregularities, it's mostly pointless, because it's not about the individual cases, it's about the overall pattern. And that the point of investigating those red flags is twofold: One, two ensure election integrity. And two, to prove to the public that election integrity is taken seriously. Both the facade and the reality are important. The people denying there's a problem and saying it's a threat to democracy to challenge the results are the threat, because if we don't look into those issues people will lose faith in the machinery of democracy, which can't function without that belief.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 11, 2020, 11:42:01 PM
A decisive win for Biden. The last time an incumbent president's challenger got as high a percentage of the vote* was 1932. Even Jimmy Carter held Ronald Reagan below that percentage; incumbency is clearly a powerful advantage, as it led to the only Republican popular vote win since 1988. Trump was just that bad a president and candidate.

(* Based on present vote totals; entirely possible for Biden to end up over 80 million votes and with over 51% of the popular vote.)

How much money did you get paid to post this? Was it at least in USD?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 11, 2020, 11:45:20 PM
A decisive win for Biden. The last time an incumbent president's challenger got as high a percentage of the vote* was 1932. Even Jimmy Carter held Ronald Reagan below that percentage; incumbency is clearly a powerful advantage, as it led to the only Republican popular vote win since 1988. Trump was just that bad a president and candidate.

(* Based on present vote totals; entirely possible for Biden to end up over 80 million votes and with over 51% of the popular vote.)

How much money did you get paid to post this? Was it at least in USD?

I would have asked for Biden Bucks, I mean Bitcoin.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 11, 2020, 11:46:37 PM
Maybe you should look at total votes rather then a percentage.

51% of a hundred voters is not so impressive.
51% of the voters can get you over 90% of the votes if they are the voters casting thousands of votes each. ;)

I believe in the one man, one vote system.

The Patrician is the man and he gets the vote.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 11, 2020, 11:53:39 PM
Actually, many posters are claiming that it is proven that the election was completely fraudulent. Even if you aren't one of the ones who considers it proven --

The gimme proof people are asking for Proof, the technical term.  They are not asking for evidence, the technical term, which concerned posters are using "proof" for in the colloquial sense - which is perfectly fucking appropriate on a forum that is not a court room.

I'm not interested in your skeptical opinion or wish to invest effort into changing it.  It should invite derision or a re-evaluation of overall credibility in future discussions.  But that's best done without bothering to express it to the person re-evaluated.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 12, 2020, 12:17:21 AM
A decisive win for Biden. The last time an incumbent president's challenger got as high a percentage of the vote* was 1932. Even Jimmy Carter held Ronald Reagan below that percentage; incumbency is clearly a powerful advantage, as it led to the only Republican popular vote win since 1988. Trump was just that bad a president and candidate.

(* Based on present vote totals; entirely possible for Biden to end up over 80 million votes and with over 51% of the popular vote.)


(https://i.imgur.com/mdFtyqe.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/HHbSy1H.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/07Itfqo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jPVCf5O.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zIIQI9O.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 12, 2020, 05:27:10 AM
Greetings!

An interesting commentary by Glenn Beck.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsjfHWj3BGE][/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsjfHWj3BGE
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 12, 2020, 09:20:25 AM
 There is NO EVIDENCE OF VOTER FRAUD
 There is NO EVIDENCE OF WIDESPREAD VOTER FRAUD
 There is NO EVIDENCE OF ENOUGH WIDESPREAD VOTER FRAUD TO OVER TURN THE ELECTION
  EVERYONE DOES IT IT IS WHAT IS BEST FOR THE COUNTRY MOVE ON TO KEEP YOUR JOB!!
It seems the first two are done, and the NYT is already pushing the third.  I guess I will wait for the chorus to sing to strike through the third.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 12, 2020, 09:41:26 AM
>Democrats deny any fraud occurred
>Democrats suggest people move to Georgia for the sole purpose of voting in that state's Senate runoffs.

Someone once suggested people shouldn't be allowed to vote in state elections until they'd been residents for a year. That suggestion's looking better all the time.

Also, what would a Biden cabinet look like (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/who-are-contenders-for-biden-s-cabinet/ar-BB1aUhVz?ocid=msedgntp)?

Short answer: like shit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 12, 2020, 10:21:44 AM
So the answer is no, you're a coward, and you are not even willing to back up your convictions with a simple bet concerning avatars. Gotcha. Exactly what I thought.

I posed a video of the guy DIRECTLY DISPUTING what you said. There is no "bet". None. You have lost, and even if Jesus himself came from the heavens, you'd insist you were correct. So kindly go fuck yourself, shill.



So now they have a recording of him recanting his allegations (https://www.chron.com/news/article/Interview-recording-shows-Pennsylvania-postal-15720972.php), and they have a new signed statement from him recanting his claims.

"When an agent from the U.S. Postal Service Office of Inspector General asked Hopkins if he stood by his sworn statement that a supervisor "was backdating ballots" mailed after Election Day, Hopkins answered: "At this point? No.""

"During the recorded interview, however, federal agents repeatedly reminded Hopkins that his cooperation was voluntary, and Hopkins agreed to sign a document stating that he was not coerced."

"Asked by an agent whether he had legal representation, Hopkins said Project Veritas had a lawyer on retention "in case there's anything that happens." The agent told Hopkins that if he had a personal lawyer, "I would make whatever efforts possible to have that person here." Hopkins said he didn't have a lawyer."

"Hopkins also repeatedly expressed regret for signing the initial affidavit because it overstated what he knew and witnessed, according to the recording."

"He told agents the affidavit was written by Project Veritas."

"He said he was not fully aware of its contents because he was in "so much shock I wasn't paying that much attention to what they were telling me.""

"In the interview with federal agents, though, Hopkins said he overheard only a few portions of a conversation between the postmaster and another worker. The two were standing at a distance that made it difficult to hear the full conversation, but Hopkins said he could make out three phrases: "ballots on the 4th," "all for the 3rd," and "one postmarked on the 4th.""

""My mind probably added the rest," he told the investigators, before acknowledging that he never heard anyone use the word "backdate.""

Again, you're being a sucker. The original affidavit was written by Project Veritas, using this schlub for their usual bullshit. Their tool hadn't even read the statement they wrote for him. Then in private to the investigators he recanted. On the record. Stating clearly he was not being coerced, and didn't want his lawyer. Then once back in public, realizing his life was essentially over after he did this stupid stunt, he went back to lying on YouTube. To get the gofundme cash and try and rescue some reputation.

How are you still supporting this guy? He's so obviously lying it's not even funny anymore.  Well, it's still a bit funny I suppose. And Project Veritas is so obviously shitheads in this as well, just like they were caught lying just a couple of weeks ago. How are you still being taken in by all of this?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 12, 2020, 11:03:36 AM
  Well Winson, sometimes 2+2 is 5.  Sometimes it is 3.  We are trying so very hard to help you Winston. Please keep trying.  It is so very hard to become sane.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on November 12, 2020, 11:43:09 AM



The points I made is that there are a lot of reported red flags. Those red flags must be investigated, and nobody here is really qualified to put together the pieces because we lack the expert knowledge. I'll add that even if we can assesses individual irregularities, it's mostly pointless, because it's not about the individual cases, it's about the overall pattern. And that the point of investigating those red flags is twofold: One, two ensure election integrity. And two, to prove to the public that election integrity is taken seriously. Both the facade and the reality are important. The people denying there's a problem and saying it's a threat to democracy to challenge the results are the threat, because if we don't look into those issues people will lose faith in the machinery of democracy, which can't function without that belief.

I know for a fact that standard governmental ethics training includes the very simple catechism that "If it looks improper, it IS improper", which when unpacked means that it doesn't matter if it is completely legitimate and above board, its still a violation of ethics.  The example used was (as I recall): If you are in charge of purchasing something, and you decide to purchase said item from a vendor. If then, after decision has been made, said Vendor gives you tickets to the Lakers game (or buys you a fancy lunch, or whatever), it LOOKS like you were bribed, even though you'd already made the decision before hand, and you could/would be prosecuted as if you had, in fact, been bribed.

Not a lawyer, but I have always suspected this was on legally shaky ground, but nevertheless have agreed that it is a sound principle.  Put it in the same catagory as 'Doth protest too much' and other such elements of 'shady as fuck' indicators.

Simply put: There are so many indicators (not proof) that this election has been tampered with that the BIDEN campaign should be calling for an audit, simply to clear their own name, or else seventy million voters will simply never believe that they election wasn't stolen from them.  What is so very fascinating about all this is how people are treating the calls for investigations as somehow improper.   In the long view it doesn't matter who won if no one trusts the process anymore. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 12, 2020, 11:46:40 AM



The points I made is that there are a lot of reported red flags. Those red flags must be investigated, and nobody here is really qualified to put together the pieces because we lack the expert knowledge. I'll add that even if we can assesses individual irregularities, it's mostly pointless, because it's not about the individual cases, it's about the overall pattern. And that the point of investigating those red flags is twofold: One, two ensure election integrity. And two, to prove to the public that election integrity is taken seriously. Both the facade and the reality are important. The people denying there's a problem and saying it's a threat to democracy to challenge the results are the threat, because if we don't look into those issues people will lose faith in the machinery of democracy, which can't function without that belief.
 

I know for a fact that standard governmental ethics training includes the very simple catechism that "If it looks improper, it IS improper", which when unpacked means that it doesn't matter if it is completely legitimate and above board, its still a violation of ethics.  The example used was (as I recall): If you are in charge of purchasing something, and you decide to purchase said item from a vendor. If then, after decision has been made, said Vendor gives you tickets to the Lakers game (or buys you a fancy lunch, or whatever), it LOOKS like you were bribed, even though you'd already made the decision before hand, and you could/would be prosecuted as if you had, in fact, been bribed.

Not a lawyer, but I have always suspected this was on legally shaky ground, but nevertheless have agreed that it is a sound principle.  Put it in the same catagory as 'Doth protest too much' and other such elements of 'shady as fuck' indicators.

Simply put: There are so many indicators (not proof) that this election has been tampered with that the BIDEN campaign should be calling for an audit, simply to clear their own name, or else seventy million voters will simply never believe that they election wasn't stolen from them.  What is so very fascinating about all this is how people are treating the calls for investigations as somehow improper.   In the long view it doesn't matter who won if no one trusts the process anymore.
The Rubicon is already crossed on that one IMO.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 12, 2020, 12:24:06 PM
  Well Winson, sometimes 2+2 is 5.  Sometimes it is 3.  We are trying so very hard to help you Winston. Please keep trying.  It is so very hard to become sane.

See, Mistwell pretends he's Winston, when actually he's O’Brien. It's all so tiresome.

EDIT: Sorry, gonna have to try harder than that, shill: https://thepostmillennial.com/project-veritasproject-veritas-releases-recorded-coercing-of-usps-whistleblower-during-federal-interrogation
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 12, 2020, 01:11:30 PM
  Well Winson, sometimes 2+2 is 5.  Sometimes it is 3.  We are trying so very hard to help you Winston. Please keep trying.  It is so very hard to become sane.

See, Mistwell pretends he's Winston, when actually he's O’Brien. It's all so tiresome.

EDIT: Sorry, gonna have to try harder than that, shill: https://thepostmillennial.com/project-veritasproject-veritas-releases-recorded-coercing-of-usps-whistleblower-during-federal-interrogation

Yes Brad, same recording. Same one where he says he recants. HE made the recording Brad. Everything I posted above is from the recording HE made.

It's done dude. The guy was lying. We know that now. You're stuck with "was he lying initially, or lying during the interview with investigators, or lying in the video he made after the interview" now. ONE of those times he has to be lying, by definition. Because his statements in the interview are mutually exclusive with his initial video and the video he made afterwards. So you tell me, which one was he lying in? The part where he says if he stands by his prior statement "At this point? No." That has to be a lie for your worldview to be correct. Nobody forced him to say that. That's not coercion, to ask if you stand by your prior claim. He could have said, "Yes I still stand by it" but chose not to.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 12, 2020, 01:45:12 PM
“Even if there is some minor fraud in the case against the election’s integrity, is is not widespread enough to affect the validity of the case against the election’s integrity”

(No, this doesn’t mean I agree with Mistwell on this particular particular whistleblower)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 12, 2020, 02:06:13 PM
How are you still supporting this guy? He's so obviously lying it's not even funny anymore.  Well, it's still a bit funny I suppose. And Project Veritas is so obviously shitheads in this as well, just like they were caught lying just a couple of weeks ago. How are you still being taken in by all of this?

  Well Winson, sometimes 2+2 is 5.  Sometimes it is 3.  We are trying so very hard to help you Winston. Please keep trying.  It is so very hard to become sane.

Like clockwork. The wacko conspiracy narrative will be supported, no matter what. Even Fox News isn't taking Trump's BS seriously, but of course now Fox is "lamestream media" to Trumptards.

Confirmation bias really has no limits.

Meanwhile, Trump is duping his followers, and taking tons of their raising money in the process for whatever media venture he plans next. Can't wait to watch the Trump News Network for shits and giggles.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 12, 2020, 02:22:39 PM
Simply put: There are so many indicators (not proof) that this election has been tampered with that the BIDEN campaign should be calling for an audit, simply to clear their own name, or else seventy million voters will simply never believe that they election wasn't stolen from them.  What is so very fascinating about all this is how people are treating the calls for investigations as somehow improper.   In the long view it doesn't matter who won if no one trusts the process anymore.
The Rubicon is already crossed on that one IMO.

I tend to agree with oggsmash though from a different perspective. Increasingly, we're moving into hyper-partisan territory where both liberals and conservatives only believe their own information sources that match their politics. Often this results in extremes where *both* mainstreams are wrong by only promoting an exaggerated reality.

I personally agree that investigations and lawsuits should move forward. There are some other calls like this, such as this Washington Post editorial:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/11/12/lawsuits-trump-election-false-claims/


But largely, people have already made up their mind based on their partisan leaning. Even after the lawsuits happen - if the results are decided against Trump, I'm sure most Trump supporters will say that the verdict was rigged the same way the election was rigged.

In my dreams, I'd hope that maybe Republicans and Democrats could agree to pass bipartisan election reforms by packaging together some different things like anti-gerrymandering mandates and additional funding for security. But since neither side has pushed for significant election reforms so far, I doubt this will happen.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 12, 2020, 02:23:05 PM
How are you still supporting this guy? He's so obviously lying it's not even funny anymore.  Well, it's still a bit funny I suppose. And Project Veritas is so obviously shitheads in this as well, just like they were caught lying just a couple of weeks ago. How are you still being taken in by all of this?

  Well Winson, sometimes 2+2 is 5.  Sometimes it is 3.  We are trying so very hard to help you Winston. Please keep trying.  It is so very hard to become sane.

Like clockwork. The wacko conspiracy narrative will be supported, no matter what. Even Fox News isn't taking Trump's BS seriously, but of course now Fox is "lamestream media" to Trumptards.

Confirmation bias really has no limits.

Meanwhile, Trump is duping his followers, and taking tons of their raising money in the process for whatever media venture he plans next. Can't wait to watch the Trump News Network for shits and giggles.

News is it's the MAGA channel which will be a paid online streaming network rather than a cable network:
https://www.axios.com/trump-fox-news-digital-media-competitor-25afddee-144d-4820-8ed4-9eb0ffa42420.html
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 12, 2020, 02:40:35 PM
Easiest way to blow through confirmation bias is a forensic audit

For some reason, even MSM is acknowledging very few Rs believe them, but instead of joining the call for a forensic audit they rely on social pressure to accep results without that

Reminder(s):

1. Hillary’s advice was not to concede the election *no matter what*.  Trump is simply following this wise advice

2.  The social and mainstream media services said final results of the election would be long delayed; are now upset the whole thing wasn't accepted immediately afterwards

3.  Biden said in 1st debate he would not declare victory unless the vote totals had been certified; he declares victory weeks before that would occur

“Why won’t Trump voters take our word and stand down.  THEY'RE JUST IGNORANT, EASILY SWINDLED RUBES”
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 12, 2020, 02:47:23 PM
Easiest way to blow through confirmation bias is a forensic audit

For some reason, even MSM is acknowledging very few Rs believe them, but instead of joining the call for a forensic audit they rely on social pressure to accep results without that

Reminder(s):

1. Hillary’s advice was not to concede the election *no matter what*.  Trump is simply following this wise advice

2.  The social and mainstream media services said final results of the election would be long delayed; are now upset the whole thing wasn't accepted immediately afterwards

3.  Biden said in 1st debate he would not declare victory unless the vote totals had been certified; he declares victory weeks before that would occur

“Why won’t Trump voters take our word and stand down.  THEY'RE JUST IGNORANT, EASILY SWINDLED RUBES”

You can not hold them to their own standards, what are you some kind of Remembering Nazi?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on November 12, 2020, 02:57:21 PM
You can not hold them to their own standards, what are you some kind of Remembering Nazi?

You must believe everything a politician says, even when it contradicts their previous statements, or you're just a CT nut.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 12, 2020, 03:08:30 PM
An analysis of the vote totals from the 2069 Chicago precincts, using Benford's law:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etx0k1nLn78

Yes, there's an abnormality. But it's an abnormality that's perfectly in line with the data. Basically, Benford's law is intended for numbers across a range of magnitudes, but the districts are almost all roughly the same size, and Chicago is strongly blue so Biden would be expected to get a fairly consistent number of votes across the different precincts. That number worked out to about 500, and per Benford's original paper, when numbers are constrained to a single order of magnitude, the most common first digit should be 4, 5, or 6 (which is what happened), not 1 (which is what is expected when the numbers are distributed across orders of magnitudes).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on November 12, 2020, 03:52:48 PM
Lighthearted reminder that the media does not decide who wins the election, and for people not to lose their minds...

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 12, 2020, 04:02:31 PM
Greetings!

Salty Cracker provides some hilarious commentary!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 12, 2020, 04:19:50 PM
LOL at Project Veritas. What a joke.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/usps-staffer-richard-hopkins-told-agents-project-veritas-penned-his-ballot-tampering-claim?source=twitter&via=desktop
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 12, 2020, 05:04:44 PM
LOL at the Daily Beast.  What a joke. 

https://nypost.com/2020/11/11/fbis-failures-to-protect-whistleblowers-then-and-now-devine/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 12, 2020, 06:53:11 PM
Massive evidence of fraud = no evidence of fraud = LOL.

Amazing how the "party of science" suddenly hates math. But hey, thanks for the shower of red pills falling upon anyone who can do math, regardless of how they feel about Trump. They may not change their opinion on Trump, but they are damn furious about the fraud, the social media censorship and the MSM coverup and that's enough for me.

Here's the joke. If Trump won and the math was wonky, I'd have ZERO problem with the votes being recounted and the systems analyzed because FRAUD goes FAR beyond one election or one candidate. FRAUD threatens the foundation of our democratic republic and destroys citizen's confidence in the system. Biden is a worthless piece of shit, but he's only one candidate. FRAUD (especially at this level of utter nonsense) calls every election into question and invalidates voting.

However, its apparent now that destruction of citizen's confidence is exactly the game plan by the MSM/DNC/BigTech oligarchy because they can dishearten enough people into not voting in the future and thus disenfranchise enough people so there's no opposition. (aka, the one party system of California).

In my dreams, I'd hope that maybe Republicans and Democrats could agree to pass bipartisan election reforms by packaging together some different things like anti-gerrymandering mandates and additional funding for security. But since neither side has pushed for significant election reforms so far, I doubt this will happen.

The American people will want reformed elections, and I do believe it will become a bipartisan issue among citizens groups. The politicians? Not so much.

How that plays out is anyone's guess. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 12, 2020, 07:20:50 PM
How are you still supporting this guy? He's so obviously lying it's not even funny anymore.  Well, it's still a bit funny I suppose. And Project Veritas is so obviously shitheads in this as well, just like they were caught lying just a couple of weeks ago. How are you still being taken in by all of this?

  Well Winson, sometimes 2+2 is 5.  Sometimes it is 3.  We are trying so very hard to help you Winston. Please keep trying.  It is so very hard to become sane.

Like clockwork. The wacko conspiracy narrative will be supported, no matter what. Even Fox News isn't taking Trump's BS seriously, but of course now Fox is "lamestream media" to Trumptards.

Confirmation bias really has no limits.

Meanwhile, Trump is duping his followers, and taking tons of their raising money in the process for whatever media venture he plans next. Can't wait to watch the Trump News Network for shits and giggles.
   Since we are moving on to calling one another names, would you like my home address so you can stop by some time and say the same thing to me in person?  If not, perhaps we should attempt to maintain some small modicum of decorum?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 12, 2020, 07:27:18 PM
Simply put: There are so many indicators (not proof) that this election has been tampered with that the BIDEN campaign should be calling for an audit, simply to clear their own name, or else seventy million voters will simply never believe that they election wasn't stolen from them.  What is so very fascinating about all this is how people are treating the calls for investigations as somehow improper.   In the long view it doesn't matter who won if no one trusts the process anymore.
The Rubicon is already crossed on that one IMO.

I tend to agree with oggsmash though from a different perspective. Increasingly, we're moving into hyper-partisan territory where both liberals and conservatives only believe their own information sources that match their politics. Often this results in extremes where *both* mainstreams are wrong by only promoting an exaggerated reality.

I personally agree that investigations and lawsuits should move forward. There are some other calls like this, such as this Washington Post editorial:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/11/12/lawsuits-trump-election-false-claims/


But largely, people have already made up their mind based on their partisan leaning. Even after the lawsuits happen - if the results are decided against Trump, I'm sure most Trump supporters will say that the verdict was rigged the same way the election was rigged.

In my dreams, I'd hope that maybe Republicans and Democrats could agree to pass bipartisan election reforms by packaging together some different things like anti-gerrymandering mandates and additional funding for security. But since neither side has pushed for significant election reforms so far, I doubt this will happen.
No, our perspectives are pretty much exactly aligned here.  I hold no thoughts of fraud, I want it looked at in detail, but the "steal" was when we mass mail ballots.  There is no way, on this earth, to ensure integrity on that.   Every ballot may be 100 percent legitimate.  Most mail-ins may be 100 percent legit.  half could be, we will all never know, because they are extremely vulnerable to fraud, and the moment they were sent out, that was the rubicon, there was no way to ensure enough integrity for whatever resulted to be in any way calm.  There is a reason LOTS of countries require in person, ID voting and inking your thumb after the fact and absentees are by specific request with a chain of custody.  Not only to prevent fraud, but to ensure confidence with the public that there is no appearance of skullduggery.  Here, I agree with you no matter what turns up in court, its a disaster.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 12, 2020, 07:48:22 PM
  Some of the press are not doing themselves many favors either.  Tapper and Cuomo would be bent the fuck out of shape if someone said to them what they tweet or way on air the past couple days to supporters of their opposition.   SHit they went to GREAT lengths to track down people for making fucking memes and gifs and threatening them with doxxing......
 
   I also think when the press is SO invested in not looking at things, after they spent a great deal of energy explaining to me how emails from hunter about being a bag man for the "big guy" and the dude having all sorts of shit on a computer is simply a russian hoax/conspiracy and then the tech giants decide to help out and censor a major paper WITHOUT sending someone to look at and verify the stuff they reported on..... Well The NSA spying on everyone was a conspiracy theory.  Denying that there were WMDs tucked in some bunker in IRAQ was conspiratorial.  I am sure the idea that the USA government would intentionally infect people with syphillis was a conspiracy theory.  Behavior around things like the notion of fraud, tends to put gas on a fire, especially when the people telling you there is nothing to it have a DEEP, and PERSONAL investment in the outcome.  So...yeah I think I can stand by my comparison to 1984 level propaganda/brainwashing.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 12, 2020, 08:48:42 PM
A decisive win for Biden. The last time an incumbent president's challenger got as high a percentage of the vote* was 1932. Even Jimmy Carter held Ronald Reagan below that percentage; incumbency is clearly a powerful advantage, as it led to the only Republican popular vote win since 1988. Trump was just that bad a president and candidate.

(* Based on present vote totals; entirely possible for Biden to end up over 80 million votes and with over 51% of the popular vote.)

How much money did you get paid to post this? Was it at least in USD?

Absolutely none. Just expressing my civic pride. ;D

Since you're feeling down, how about another Trump boat parade where you sink each other's boats?

(If I were looking for money, I'd probably be selling my story of how the vote tabulator at my ward wouldn't accept ballots for like 30 minutes on election day to credulous losers like you, or to the con artists who prey on you, or to the Lieutenant Governor of Texas.)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 12, 2020, 08:54:18 PM
I tend to agree with oggsmash though from a different perspective. Increasingly, we're moving into hyper-partisan territory where both liberals and conservatives only believe their own information sources that match their politics. Often this results in extremes where *both* mainstreams are wrong by only promoting an exaggerated reality.

I personally agree that investigations and lawsuits should move forward. There are some other calls like this, such as this Washington Post editorial:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/11/12/lawsuits-trump-election-false-claims/


But largely, people have already made up their mind based on their partisan leaning. Even after the lawsuits happen - if the results are decided against Trump, I'm sure most Trump supporters will say that the verdict was rigged the same way the election was rigged.

In my dreams, I'd hope that maybe Republicans and Democrats could agree to pass bipartisan election reforms by packaging together some different things like anti-gerrymandering mandates and additional funding for security. But since neither side has pushed for significant election reforms so far, I doubt this will happen.
No, our perspectives are pretty much exactly aligned here.  I hold no thoughts of fraud, I want it looked at in detail, but the "steal" was when we mass mail ballots.  There is no way, on this earth, to ensure integrity on that.   Every ballot may be 100 percent legitimate.  Most mail-ins may be 100 percent legit.  half could be, we will all never know, because they are extremely vulnerable to fraud, and the moment they were sent out, that was the rubicon, there was no way to ensure enough integrity for whatever resulted to be in any way calm.  There is a reason LOTS of countries require in person, ID voting and inking your thumb after the fact and absentees are by specific request with a chain of custody.  Not only to prevent fraud, but to ensure confidence with the public that there is no appearance of skullduggery.  Here, I agree with you no matter what turns up in court, its a disaster.

OK, I'm glad we are partly aligned, then.

Regarding mail-in ballots, I had a dilemma about this for this election. I've voted by mail for years. But this year - inspired by worried noises from my friends - I put my ballot in a special drop box in front of City Hall - thinking that was more secure than putting it in the mail. Later, though, I read about a number of incidents where people tried to burn or blow up ballot collection boxes - and it occurred to me that there was probably more physical security around mail than there was around that drop box.

And of course, even in-person polling stations typically just have a handful of low-paid elderly people watching over the ballot boxes, which doesn't seem particularly more secure than the mail -- and easier to target. It's not like it's Fort Knox. Someone could definitely forge a counterfeit ballot and envelope; forge my signature; and intercept and replace the mail-in ballot. But I'm not sure that's significantly easier than suborning or fooling the ballot workers at a polling place - which has been done in a number of cases.

So I don't think it's nearly as different as you suggest - which is why states like Utah and countries like Switzerland adopted all-postal voting. I agree that there is less physical security, but it's not as black and white as you seem to be saying.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 12, 2020, 08:57:42 PM
Also, what would a Biden cabinet look like (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/who-are-contenders-for-biden-s-cabinet/ar-BB1aUhVz?ocid=msedgntp)?

Non-criminal. Non-nepotistic. Competent.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 12, 2020, 09:07:59 PM
Also, what would a Biden cabinet look like (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/who-are-contenders-for-biden-s-cabinet/ar-BB1aUhVz?ocid=msedgntp)?

Non-criminal. Non-nepotistic. Competent.
 
 Somehow different from every other presidential cabinet since WWII?   I have my doubts, especially with a guy who has been in washington for his entire adult working life.  I think his cabinet is coming straight over from K street. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 12, 2020, 09:10:36 PM
I tend to agree with oggsmash though from a different perspective. Increasingly, we're moving into hyper-partisan territory where both liberals and conservatives only believe their own information sources that match their politics. Often this results in extremes where *both* mainstreams are wrong by only promoting an exaggerated reality.

I personally agree that investigations and lawsuits should move forward. There are some other calls like this, such as this Washington Post editorial:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/11/12/lawsuits-trump-election-false-claims/


But largely, people have already made up their mind based on their partisan leaning. Even after the lawsuits happen - if the results are decided against Trump, I'm sure most Trump supporters will say that the verdict was rigged the same way the election was rigged.

In my dreams, I'd hope that maybe Republicans and Democrats could agree to pass bipartisan election reforms by packaging together some different things like anti-gerrymandering mandates and additional funding for security. But since neither side has pushed for significant election reforms so far, I doubt this will happen.
No, our perspectives are pretty much exactly aligned here.  I hold no thoughts of fraud, I want it looked at in detail, but the "steal" was when we mass mail ballots.  There is no way, on this earth, to ensure integrity on that.   Every ballot may be 100 percent legitimate.  Most mail-ins may be 100 percent legit.  half could be, we will all never know, because they are extremely vulnerable to fraud, and the moment they were sent out, that was the rubicon, there was no way to ensure enough integrity for whatever resulted to be in any way calm.  There is a reason LOTS of countries require in person, ID voting and inking your thumb after the fact and absentees are by specific request with a chain of custody.  Not only to prevent fraud, but to ensure confidence with the public that there is no appearance of skullduggery.  Here, I agree with you no matter what turns up in court, its a disaster.

OK, I'm glad we are partly aligned, then.

Regarding mail-in ballots, I had a dilemma about this for this election. I've voted by mail for years. But this year - inspired by worried noises from my friends - I put my ballot in a special drop box in front of City Hall - thinking that was more secure than putting it in the mail. Later, though, I read about a number of incidents where people tried to burn or blow up ballot collection boxes - and it occurred to me that there was probably more physical security around mail than there was around that drop box.

And of course, even in-person polling stations typically just have a handful of low-paid elderly people watching over the ballot boxes, which doesn't seem particularly more secure than the mail -- and easier to target. It's not like it's Fort Knox. Someone could definitely forge a counterfeit ballot and envelope; forge my signature; and intercept and replace the mail-in ballot. But I'm not sure that's significantly easier than suborning or fooling the ballot workers at a polling place - which has been done in a number of cases.

So I don't think it's nearly as different as you suggest - which is why states like Utah and countries like Switzerland adopted all-postal voting. I agree that there is less physical security, but it's not as black and white as you seem to be saying.
  It is as black and white regarding the public PERCEPTION.  Which was the point I made, not whether it is or is not secure. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 12, 2020, 09:12:56 PM
EDIT: Sorry, gonna have to try harder than that, shill: https://thepostmillennial.com/project-veritasproject-veritas-releases-recorded-coercing-of-usps-whistleblower-during-federal-interrogation

No recording of the questioning? Not surprised, just bored.

Complete rickroll fail. That's like just asking for store hours after they say that, yes, they do have Prince Albert in a Can and just giggling later about not shopping there.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 12, 2020, 09:19:33 PM
It is as black and white regarding the public PERCEPTION.  Which was the point I made, not whether it is or is not secure.

OK, fair enough. I myself got caught up enough to not use the mail this election, so I've suffered from this too. It's definitely a real issue. Still, they trusted it enough to implement all-postal voting in some places like Utah and Switzerland. So it's not an absolute that all public trust ends with implementing it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 12, 2020, 09:28:54 PM
Increasingly, we're moving into hyper-partisan territory where both liberals and conservatives only believe their own information sources that match their politics.

Quote
But largely, people have already made up their mind based on their partisan leaning.

I was open to the possibility of Wisconsin changing back to Trump, but Scott Walker, former Republican governor in charge of gerrymandering and voter suppression, persuaded me a Wisconsin recount could never swing 20,000 votes. Listen to all sides, in order to laugh at the stupid conservatives, is my practice, and occasionally you learn something new.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 12, 2020, 09:36:11 PM
EDIT: Sorry, gonna have to try harder than that, shill: https://thepostmillennial.com/project-veritasproject-veritas-releases-recorded-coercing-of-usps-whistleblower-during-federal-interrogation
No recording of the questioning? Not surprised, just bored.

Complete rickroll fail. That's like just asking for store hours after they say that, yes, they do have Prince Albert in a Can and just giggling later about not shopping there.

rawma - They released the recording of the questioning. Here's the Project Veritas story:

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/raw-audio-of-usps-investigators-interrogating-usps-whistleblower-richard/

And here's the recording,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkNkQ2nDQfc&feature=youtu.be

Warnings: It's two hours long, I haven't listened to it yet, and I don't know if it's been edited. But they did release something. I'd say it's up in the air at this point. Project Veritas head O'Keefe has been legally determined to have made deceptive claims earlier, like in 2013 when he was forced to apologize and pay $100,000 to settle a lawsuit by former ACORN employee Juan Vera. But other times, it seems like his claims were substantial.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 12, 2020, 09:49:08 PM
Also, what would a Biden cabinet look like (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/who-are-contenders-for-biden-s-cabinet/ar-BB1aUhVz?ocid=msedgntp)?

Non-criminal. Non-nepotistic. Competent.

Say what you will about the evils of Nepotism because on the other hand we have peace in the Middle East.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 12, 2020, 10:09:27 PM
Since we are moving on to calling one another names, would you like my home address so you can stop by some time and say the same thing to me in person?  If not, perhaps we should attempt to maintain some small modicum of decorum?

Trump supporters are angry after his loss in 2020. Even on this site, Trump supporters were angry after his victory in 2016. (Remember Crüesader wishing death for people even though his candidate won?) Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.



rawma - They released the recording of the questioning. Here's the Project Veritas story:

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/raw-audio-of-usps-investigators-interrogating-usps-whistleblower-richard/

And here's the recording,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkNkQ2nDQfc&feature=youtu.be

Fair enough.

Quote
Warnings: It's two hours long, I haven't listened to it yet, and I don't know if it's been edited. But they did release something. I'd say it's up in the air at this point. Project Veritas head O'Keefe has been legally determined to have made deceptive claims earlier, like in 2013 when he was forced to apologize and pay $100,000 to settle a lawsuit by former ACORN employee Juan Vera. But other times, it seems like his claims were substantial.

Also, O'Keefe plead guilty to a misdemeanor with three years probation over trying to enter Senator Landrieu's office in disguise. Good for a laugh, like the time he forgot to hang up on Open Society Foundations and then explaining the planned sting to his associates. A move worthy of Rudy. Most of his stuff is deceptively edited to go beyond what's substantial, if anything.

But two hours does exceed my willingness to listen to stuff like that. I had enough energy to look at Brad's link but couldn't find the promised recording.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 12, 2020, 10:43:56 PM
Also, what would a Biden cabinet look like (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/who-are-contenders-for-biden-s-cabinet/ar-BB1aUhVz?ocid=msedgntp)?

Non-criminal. Non-nepotistic. Competent.
 
 Somehow different from every other presidential cabinet since WWII?   I have my doubts, especially with a guy who has been in washington for his entire adult working life.  I think his cabinet is coming straight over from K street.

Criminal? Not the Obama administration.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jan/09/facebook-posts/many-more-criminal-indictments-under-trump-reagan-/

Nepotistic? Up until 2017, presidents complied with the 1967 anti-nepotism statute; the Trump administration decided it didn't apply to them.

Competent? Easily so just by comparison. Still laughing at the Four Seasons Total Landscaping press conference.

Say what you will about the evils of Nepotism because on the other hand we have peace in the Middle East.

Billy Carter arranged the Camp David Accords? Or Roger Clinton gets credit for the Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty?

Oh, you mean normalization of relations between Israel and countries that never fought wars with Israel.  ::)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on November 12, 2020, 11:05:08 PM
Criminal? Not the Obama administration.
LMAO, Fast and Furious, IRS Scandal, persecuting AP reporters never happened in Rawma's world. It wasn't criminal because (D) but it should have been.
There can't be reconciliation of the partisan divide if each side cannot in almost any way agree on what reality is.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 12, 2020, 11:25:07 PM
Guys why not put these assholes in your ignore list?  They clearly want to waste your time and have nothing to say.  They are trolls.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 12, 2020, 11:30:02 PM
It is totally FAKE NEWS that Georgia is doing a recount...by hand. LOL.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/georgia-set-to-start-historic-hand-recount-and-audit-in-presidential-race (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/georgia-set-to-start-historic-hand-recount-and-audit-in-presidential-race)

Since we are moving on to calling one another names, would you like my home address so you can stop by some time and say the same thing to me in person?  If not, perhaps we should attempt to maintain some small modicum of decorum?

A) I'll stop by if you promise you'll have cake. I like cake. And beer!

But not while eating cake. That's what sherry is for.

B) This is theRPGsite. Decorum, even in small modicums, isn't our style.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 12, 2020, 11:33:43 PM
Guys why not put these assholes in your ignore list?

But the asshole is the most chewy part of the chew toy!!

And they have the right to express themselves. This is a free speech forum and if I expect others to read my blather, the least I can do is read their blather.

Also, I welcome their babble and nonsense because HERE they can say whatever they want without fear they might get banned for their words.

Plus, LOLZ is my favorite food group!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 12, 2020, 11:36:14 PM
Say what you will about the evils of Nepotism because on the other hand we have peace in the Middle East.

Billy Carter arranged the Camp David Accords? Or Roger Clinton gets credit for the Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty?

Oh, you mean normalization of relations between Israel and countries that never fought wars with Israel.  ::)

Yes, that is what peace means "normalisation"
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 13, 2020, 11:55:04 AM
Guys why not put these assholes in your ignore list?  They clearly want to waste your time and have nothing to say.  They are trolls.

Oh please, if we put everyone on ignore for being an asshole on this board on occasion, the entire message board would be on ignore. It's practically the theme of this message board that you will, in fact, encounter people sometimes behaving like an asshole here. It's part of the theme of free speech here, and the idea that dissent is sometimes rough around the edges. If you cannot handle dissent, maybe this is not the place for you?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 13, 2020, 11:59:11 AM
I particularly love how "The Democrats are incompetent" is somehow now seen as compatible with "The Democrats pulled off a conspiracy in 8 states simultaneously to change the federal election". Though somehow they couldn't pull off that same fraud, with those same ballots, to get the Senate or increase their seats in the House or the State legislatures. Because...reasons.

Arizona has now been called for Biden now by the way. With Arizona and Nevada going Biden, they never even needed Pennsylvania for example. Biden got as many electoral votes as Trump did last election now. So take a look at the math, and you can count for yourself just how many states you'd have to have massive election fraud to change this overall result.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 13, 2020, 12:04:10 PM
I particularly love how "The Democrats are incompetent" is somehow now seen as compatible with "The Democrats pulled off a conspiracy in 8 states simultaneously to change the federal election". Though somehow they couldn't pull off that same fraud, with those same ballots, to get the Senate or increase their seats in the House or the State legislatures. Because...reasons.

Kinda like how Trump is supposed to be a complete moron, and yet a fascist mastermind.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 13, 2020, 12:05:29 PM
The non-Partisan Cook Political Report released an electoral map (https://cookpolitical.com/sites/default/files/2020-07/EC%20Ratings071420.pdf?) based on how they rate each state.  They currently rate 279 electoral votes as solid/likely/lean Democrat and 187 electoral votes as solid/likely/lean Republican.  Compared to Real Clear Politics (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/2020_elections_electoral_college_map.html) which includes Missouri and Texas as toss-ups, the Cook Political report is assigning them to Trump, along with Iowa and Ohio.  Even with that, winning the 72 electoral votes listed as 'toss-up' (which is comprised of Arizona, Florida, Georgia, and North Carolina, as well as a Maine district) Biden would win 279 to 259.  It would require Trump to run the table and poach at least one large State from the Lean Democrat column. 

Looking at the chart in the first post...it played out almost exactly like that. Biden got about half of the toss-ups in the middle, Trump got about half of the toss-ups in the middle, and everything else played out like they had predicted way back in July.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 13, 2020, 12:08:36 PM
I particularly love how "The Democrats are incompetent" is somehow now seen as compatible with "The Democrats pulled off a conspiracy in 8 states simultaneously to change the federal election". Though somehow they couldn't pull off that same fraud, with those same ballots, to get the Senate or increase their seats in the House or the State legislatures. Because...reasons.

Kinda like how Trump is supposed to be a complete moron, and yet a fascist mastermind.

I never bought into either of those. They were also absurd. He's neither a moron, nor a fascist.

But, he did lose the election. And I think that loss is on him. It wouldn't have taken much different from him to have won.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 13, 2020, 12:13:34 PM
I particularly love how "The Democrats are incompetent" is somehow now seen as compatible with "The Democrats pulled off a conspiracy in 8 states simultaneously to change the federal election". Though somehow they couldn't pull off that same fraud, with those same ballots, to get the Senate or increase their seats in the House or the State legislatures. Because...reasons.

Kinda like how Trump is supposed to be a complete moron, and yet a fascist mastermind.

I never bought into either of those. They were also absurd. He's neither a moron, nor a fascist.

But, he did lose the election. And I think that loss is on him. It wouldn't have taken much different from him to have won.

No one has won or lost. The electors haven't even been selected yet.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on November 13, 2020, 01:34:11 PM
"In this fair country, even the oxy fiends and the corpses get the vote!"
-Charles "Chuck the Butcher" Schumer, 2020 AD



"Only voted twice? You call that doing your civic duty?"
-Random Antifa Thug, 2020 AD
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 13, 2020, 01:51:03 PM
Also, what would a Biden cabinet look like (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/who-are-contenders-for-biden-s-cabinet/ar-BB1aUhVz?ocid=msedgntp)?

Non-criminal. Non-nepotistic. Competent.

Obviously you haven't heard about Hunter Biden, son of Joe Biden......
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 13, 2020, 02:44:27 PM
 The thing that is going to go sour, no matter who is in the white house, is the press has made some missteps here.  We all knew they were extremely biased, and now with people like Tapper and Cuomo (remember they are the network who hunted down the dude posting memes and got him to *change his ways*) and their comments.... THey are going to trigger that Tim mcveigh out there.  When that happens, instead of an entire country understanding how evil and bad someone like that is, there is going to be a whole lot of "I see how someone could do something like that".  Combine that with the stink of mail in ballots, and there are going to be problems.  Leftists, and the glorious CNN and their ilk have put a stamp of approval on "peaceful protests" and we are going to end up seeing numbers like they had in Richmond over the 2A issues there, with crowds 20k strong, only this time some of those people are going to be right on the edge.  This will explode in violence, of a large scale.  I have some hopes it will be contained to one city/event and not escalate to fertilizer bombs or several cities at once popping off. 

    Leftists are completely self unaware in much of this, calling for unity after 4+ years of calling people nazis and white supremacists for even voting for trump.  This is going to go sideways.  I have said it for well over a year, and I think it is going to get bad fast.  What happens after that first flare will determine the future of the country.  I think it is going to be chaos,  I think there will be an attempt for large scale lockdown loosely citing covid to prevent protesting, which used to be covid proof, but I guess protests are no longer covid proof.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 13, 2020, 04:27:57 PM
Greetings!

Listen and Learn. The Dan Bongino program is very enlightening.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 13, 2020, 05:10:26 PM
  Yeah, having a corporation with a VP who is VEHEMENTY anti trump that runs the voting machines, and who posted a nice long "response" letter from Antifa may not be the best look.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 13, 2020, 05:57:19 PM
    Leftists are completely self unaware in much of this, calling for unity after 4+ years of calling people nazis and white supremacists for even voting for trump.  This is going to go sideways.  I have said it for well over a year, and I think it is going to get bad fast.  What happens after that first flare will determine the future of the country.  I think it is going to be chaos,  I think there will be an attempt for large scale lockdown loosely citing covid to prevent protesting, which used to be covid proof, but I guess protests are no longer covid proof.

This really smacks of... fuck I don't know what to call it. It's psychotic to expect half of America to swing from 1984 style hate sessions to loving their fellow citizens because the correct crusty old white man appears to be the new President.

And I expect Biden to lock America down hard if he becomes President regardless of protests.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 13, 2020, 06:15:43 PM
The thing that is going to go sour, no matter who is in the white house, is the press has made some missteps here.  We all knew they were extremely biased, and now with people like Tapper and Cuomo (remember they are the network who hunted down the dude posting memes and got him to *change his ways*) and their comments.... THey are going to trigger that Tim mcveigh out there.  When that happens, instead of an entire country understanding how evil and bad someone like that is, there is going to be a whole lot of "I see how someone could do something like that".
This is going to go sideways.  I have said it for well over a year, and I think it is going to get bad fast.  What happens after that first flare will determine the future of the country.  I think it is going to be chaos,  I think there will be an attempt for large scale lockdown loosely citing covid to prevent protesting, which used to be covid proof, but I guess protests are no longer covid proof.

I tend to agree that with increased hyper-partisanship, we're more likely to see something like this. We've already had major events like last year's El Paso shooting that killed 23, so it's not a stretch to imagine that it might escalate towards a 168-death attack like McVeigh's.

However, that said, I think that while there would be more who support such an attack - the vast majority would abhor it, and it would overall reduce the popularity of their cause. This year, I think the violence associated with the George Floyd protests hurt the popularity of Black Lives Matter. That has pushed liberals more towards the center. I think acts of violence would similarly hurt the popularity of the right-wing causes.

We'll still be hyper-partisan because social media and other sources profit from outrage and clickbait, but once it starts being real-life violence instead of clicks on one's smartphone, the mainstream lose their taste for the extreme.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 13, 2020, 06:30:44 PM
The thing that is going to go sour, no matter who is in the white house, is the press has made some missteps here.  We all knew they were extremely biased, and now with people like Tapper and Cuomo (remember they are the network who hunted down the dude posting memes and got him to *change his ways*) and their comments.... THey are going to trigger that Tim mcveigh out there.  When that happens, instead of an entire country understanding how evil and bad someone like that is, there is going to be a whole lot of "I see how someone could do something like that".
This is going to go sideways.  I have said it for well over a year, and I think it is going to get bad fast.  What happens after that first flare will determine the future of the country.  I think it is going to be chaos,  I think there will be an attempt for large scale lockdown loosely citing covid to prevent protesting, which used to be covid proof, but I guess protests are no longer covid proof.

I tend to agree that with increased hyper-partisanship, we're more likely to see something like this. We've already had major events like last year's El Paso shooting that killed 23, so it's not a stretch to imagine that it might escalate towards a 168-death attack like McVeigh's.

However, that said, I think that while there would be more who support such an attack - the vast majority would abhor it, and it would overall reduce the popularity of their cause. This year, I think the violence associated with the George Floyd protests hurt the popularity of Black Lives Matter. That has pushed liberals more towards the center. I think acts of violence would similarly hurt the popularity of the right-wing causes.

We'll still be hyper-partisan because social media and other sources profit from outrage and clickbait, but once it starts being real-life violence instead of clicks on one's smartphone, the mainstream lose their taste for the extreme.
  El paso was not political, it was a nut off his meds.  You will get something political, something like what you see when cells in France decide to do something, like the Bataclan.   The El paso shooting was as political as the dude at the pulse night club IMO.  Not so much.  McVeigh, on its face is more what you should expect.  A cell of 10 trained men can do insurmountable damage.  They also are not so likely to shoot wal mart shoppers, and a whole lot more likely to pop into CNN while broadcasting and make a mess.
  You speak of what the mainstream loses their taste for, right now according to a large portion of left media, ANY support of Trump is not mainstream.  It is radical.  If you tell people they are radicals, call them radicals, threaten their futures because they are radicals, you are going to frigging get radicals. 
  I am sure plenty of people in 1776 didnt love the idea of killing anyone.  But they damn sure did it, didnt they?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 13, 2020, 08:41:43 PM
Greetings!

Sebastian Gorka on the America First program reads a letter from two senior Senators of the Michigan legislature and commentary on the election.

These legislators vouch that there is evidence of fraud and corruption, contrary to the fucking MSM shrieking that there's no evidence of fraud!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: TNMalt on November 13, 2020, 09:59:02 PM
Trump lost, there is no voter fraud. Drink a fifth of your favorite liquor and let it go.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 13, 2020, 10:33:51 PM
Trump lost, there is no voter fraud. Drink a fifth of your favorite liquor and let it go.

The election isn't over until the electors vote and the results are certified. You're just going to have to be patient until then.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on November 13, 2020, 11:38:38 PM
Greetings!

I read an article that discussed how Biden and Harris are going to tear down the Wall, and totally destroy Trump's immigration policies. No bans, no restrictions, anyone and everyone can just fucking pour into the country. More than 11 million illegal immigrants in the country Biden plans to make citizens during his first 100 days in office.

Globalist, cock-sucking Marxists. Oh, well, Biden isn't a Marxist--he's a moderate.

You fucking drooling moron. If he goes along with Marxists and lets fucking Globalist Marxists fucking run everything, it isn't necessary for Biden to be a card-carrying Marxist. Millions of drooling, brain-fucked idiots are heavily influenced by Marxists goddamned ideology without thinking of themselves as being officially *Marxists*--but that stupid fucking delusion doesn't take anything way from the fact that they are still standing by and helping Marxists fuck everyone else in the ass.

Fucking simple minded jackasses. Learn how Marxism has infiltrated our entire society, from government, to social policy, to education, entertainment, and the media. It's influence is everywhere, and fucking deep, and has only been getting stronger and more pervasive over the whole population at large for decades.

Fucking smug idiots. Learn about how psychological warfare and propaganda works to shift and influence cultures.

I know exactly what the fuck I'm talking about. And I don't give a fuck about some idealistic naïve fuck in some "Democratic Socialist" country that believes socialism is all sweet and fucking dandy. They are still naïve, and have been compromised in varying degrees. If some people love socialism in fucking Europe or elsewhere, well, good for them! That doesn't mean that we here in America need to swallow that shit down!

LENIN said "The Goal of Socialism is Communism. Socialism is but a way station on the way to Communism."

GLOBALISM is deeply Marxist, and embraces Marxism. Globalists--all the cock sucking technocrats and corporate cockroaches some of you try and make distinctions for--guess what? They are just fine with allying with and using Marxism to get what they want. Just because they don't explicitly claim to be or support Marxism doesn't mean they still aren't Marxists. And another thing--Marxism always has an elite, wealthy cream at the top that rules over the hordes of the unwashed masses. Where do you fucking think the Globalist Technocrats see themselves being?

Some of you claim to be educated and sophisticated, but goddamn, some of you can't fucking see the forest before the trees. You try and make all these petty distinctions, that seem to be there on the surface--but totally miss the deeper connections, the deeper motivations, the deeper goals.

And also, the whole mail-in voting fraud? Are you people that fucking brain dead and numb? A commission led by Jimmy Carter 10 years or more back said that mail in voting was rife with fraud and corruption. The fucking New York Times--such an alt-right conservative rag, right? Did an investigation years back where they also said that mail-in voting was fucking corrupt as all fuck. Then, just recently, all over the mainstream, liberal, cock-sucking news--there were several different elections, I think in New York, Michigan, Jersey, and maybe somewhere else, where there were thousands of fraud votes and corrupt bullshit going on--and delays of weeks and months in sorting out the fucking mess--but somehow, now, in this presidential election, you don't think there's the potential for fraud and fuckery going on with MILLIONS of mail in votes? And somehow, the delays in counting and processing have somehow conveniently occurred in closely contested battleground states--but no, no, Republicans are a bunch of conspiracy idiots for demanding investigations and deeper supervision of the whole process? Geesus, people.

Just like millions of drooling, brainwashed fucking sheep in this country, that can't see beyond their fucking face and their own doorstep. As long as they get to keep fucking, keep snorting, gulping down cheeseburgers and mac and cheese, and light up a blunt, and get a fucking check from the government--more free stuff!--what the fuck do they care? They are blind and choking on shit. They are so easily led and manipulated. Like fucking cattle, fattened for the slaughter, with a fucking nose ring through their nose. Yay! I can get a new piercing this weekend and a new tramp stamp on my fat fucking ass! Get you some juice, baby!!!

All such fat, bloated sheep, pumped full of Marxist jello. The snot dripping from their nose as they cackle and giggle like stupid bitches like AOC. Dancing in the streets, drunk with wine and debauchery, while Rome burns.

So tragic. And meanwhile, yeah, fucking morons. Remember when Biden aligned himself with Bernie, AOC, Buttiegeg, and Beto O'Rourke, promising them all positions of glory, power, and authority? What the fuck do you think their plans for America are going to do to the country? Fucking Harris was EQUITY OF OUTCOME, not equality. But yeah, that's right. Don't get upset. Don't get "butthurt" about any of it. Just enjoy the plough fucking you in the ass.

There are a lot of drooling morons in this country. How anyone can seriously listen to the plans and programs of Biden and Harris, and their lackies and toadies, and think all of that isn't terrible for this country? What the Fuck? Reparations? Redistribution of wealth? Fucking robbery and theft. Higher taxes? Open the fucking gates of immigration? Are you fucking insane? Disarm the country, and confiscate firearms. Yay, Harris and O'Rourke! They have said they are going to do that, too. "Mandatory Gun By-backs"--that's gun confiscation for the mentally slow. AOC and the "Green New Deal". Bernie's "Medicare For All"--all of these enormous programs that will absolutely bankrupt the country and send us into poverty and servitude. On and fucking on. But that's right. Lots of drooling fucking sheep just smile stupidly and think it's all one big fucking party. Yay! Miley Cyrus thinks that. One big party for America!

And I am certainly not ranting delusionally--nor is anyone else here that has argued similar points to my rant here--we are not "extreme" or some other BS. These policies and plans have all been discussed and embraced by Biden, Harris, and their fucking toads. I didn't make this awful shit up. This stuff is the ideology and policies of these goddamned Marxist clowns.

Fucking mind boggling.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Trump is going to concede just as soon as the official Trump Crying Towels come out and he gets one more stab at separating chumps from their change.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 13, 2020, 11:39:45 PM
Found this interesting, could come up later in investigations:
https://federalnewsnetwork.com/people/2020/11/cisas-ware-resigns-is-director-krebs-next-out-the-door/
Info on wtf this is:
https://www.cisa.gov/safecom/NCSWIC
https://www.cisa.gov/bryan-s-ware
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on November 13, 2020, 11:41:02 PM
Greetings!

Sebastian Gorka on the America First program reads a letter from two senior Senators of the Michigan legislature and commentary on the election.

These legislators vouch that there is evidence of fraud and corruption, contrary to the fucking MSM shrieking that there's no evidence of fraud!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK



Is he still calling himself "Doctor"?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 14, 2020, 12:03:15 AM
And...  back to the ignore list Elfdart goes as I refuse to waste time on parasites that just show up to be a smug asshole.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 14, 2020, 12:29:55 AM
Trump lost, there is no voter fraud. Drink a fifth of your favorite liquor and let it go.

What I love about the repeated claim that "there is no voter fraud", is that if the people claiming this really believed it, then they wouldn't be insisting on it so loudly. They would just wait for the investigations to prove them right and then laugh at Trump voters. Case closed.

Instead, they are like a scene out of the Wizard of Oz continually and shrilly telling us to pay no attention to the Man Behind The Curtain.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: The Spaniard on November 14, 2020, 07:25:11 AM
Trump lost, there is no voter fraud. Drink a fifth of your favorite liquor and let it go.

What I love about the repeated claim that "there is no voter fraud", is that if the people claiming this really believed it, then they wouldn't be insisting on it so loudly. They would just wait for the investigations to prove them right and then laugh at Trump voters. Case closed.

Instead, they are like a scene out of the Wizard of Oz continually and shrilly telling us to pay no attention to the Man Behind The Curtain.
  Exactly.  The same people who insisted that Russia helped Trump get elected by interfering now claim that interference is either not happening or "not widespread".
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RandyB on November 14, 2020, 08:06:46 AM
Trump lost, there is no voter fraud. Drink a fifth of your favorite liquor and let it go.

What I love about the repeated claim that "there is no voter fraud", is that if the people claiming this really believed it, then they wouldn't be insisting on it so loudly. They would just wait for the investigations to prove them right and then laugh at Trump voters. Case closed.

Instead, they are like a scene out of the Wizard of Oz continually and shrilly telling us to pay no attention to the Man Behind The Curtain.


Liars lie. Film at 11.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 14, 2020, 08:21:03 AM

What I love about the repeated claim that "there is no voter fraud", is that if the people claiming this really believed it, then they wouldn't be insisting on it so loudly. They would just wait for the investigations to prove them right and then laugh at Trump voters. Case closed.

Instead, they are like a scene out of the Wizard of Oz continually and shrilly telling us to pay no attention to the Man Behind The Curtain.

What I love about the repeated claim that "there is widespread, significant voter fraud", is that if the people claiming this really believed it, then they wouldn't be insisting on it so loudly. They would just wait for the investigations to prove them right and then laugh at Biden voters. Case closed.

Instead, they are like a scene out of the Wizard of Oz continually and shrilly telling us to pay no attention to the facts.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Koltar on November 14, 2020, 08:52:19 AM
There was and IS Voter Fraud.

It was very widespread.

It is also Very Difficult to prove.
One side is just better at being corrupt and criminal than the other side.
Just look at the Chicago political machine of the 1960s....

- Ed C.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 14, 2020, 09:37:48 AM
There was and IS Voter Fraud.

It was very widespread.

It is also Very Difficult to prove.
One side is just better at being corrupt and criminal than the other side.
Just look at the Chicago political machine of the 1960s....

- Ed C.
Widespread does not mean it was significant. It can actually mean the opposite--that the concentration was insignificant. For example, 10,000 false votes spread across 50 states makes far less difference than the same number of false votes concentrated in a key area.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 14, 2020, 10:55:46 AM
There was and IS Voter Fraud.

It was very widespread.

It is also Very Difficult to prove.
One side is just better at being corrupt and criminal than the other side.
Just look at the Chicago political machine of the 1960s....

- Ed C.
Widespread does not mean it was significant. It can actually mean the opposite--that the concentration was insignificant. For example, 10,000 false votes spread across 50 states makes far less difference than the same number of false votes concentrated in a key area.
  Well, there was none, then was some, now it is widespread, but not enough to change the outcome.  Those goalposts seem to move alot.  I have no idea if there was enough fraud in the sense of fake ballot stuffing to have any effect. But there was most certainly fraud. That is where the faith gets undermined, as if you can see obvious fraud you never know how much more there is.  The BS was widespread mail in voting.  The stink around the whole thing will be the issue no matter the outcome, whether the stink wafts away or turns to rot, dunno.  We will see. I do know the press has acted in a way where they are proclaiming enemies, and making threats.  That gets people killed.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 14, 2020, 10:57:43 AM

What I love about the repeated claim that "there is no voter fraud", is that if the people claiming this really believed it, then they wouldn't be insisting on it so loudly. They would just wait for the investigations to prove them right and then laugh at Trump voters. Case closed.

Instead, they are like a scene out of the Wizard of Oz continually and shrilly telling us to pay no attention to the Man Behind The Curtain.

What I love about the repeated claim that "there is widespread, significant voter fraud", is that if the people claiming this really believed it, then they wouldn't be insisting on it so loudly. They would just wait for the investigations to prove them right and then laugh at Biden voters. Case closed.

Instead, they are like a scene out of the Wizard of Oz continually and shrilly telling us to pay no attention to the facts.
  I have to laugh at that one, since it seems to ignore a very  loud, very shrill press that proclaimed no evidence of voter fraud whatsoever, and keeps sliding the goalposts on that one.  But thanks for the laugh.  But I would agree both sides of that discussion are way too emotionally invested to want facts at this point.  Both just want results, and that gets a little dangerous.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Abraxus on November 14, 2020, 11:03:33 AM
I have to say Oggsmash it's even worse in that as long as the candidate that they wanted to win won who cares about the voter fraud. Trump is out and that is all that matters. I talked to two people recently about the voter fraud and the BS  line of reasoning is "as long as Trump is out who cares about electoral fraud". One of them a close family member who took a minor in Political Science should now better than to spout that kind of rhetoric.

So what's the point then of having elections if all that is important is removing the person in power. Who needs votes or even Democracy if all that matters is "reasons and feels" and not the actual process of legitimate and fair elections. In any case the Leftist Biden supports are hypocritical and continue to be so because of Trump won they would be screaming "ELECTORAL FRAUD" to the heavens and accusing everyone else of being complicit in such fraud. Their side won so who cares if their was fraud Trump is out and all the matters. Screw your and my right to vote and the whole process.

The funny thing is the Left is supposed to be the better of the two ideological movements they are imo 100 times worse. Push comes to shove they would take away anyone and everyone ability to vote as long as Approved Candidate # 20 is the one on the ballot and wins. Some extreme elements on the Right would do the same except I expect that from the Right not from the Left. 

At the very least Trump being elected showed that neither side is better than the other to me at least.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 14, 2020, 11:14:43 AM

What I love about the repeated claim that "there is no voter fraud", is that if the people claiming this really believed it, then they wouldn't be insisting on it so loudly. They would just wait for the investigations to prove them right and then laugh at Trump voters. Case closed.

Instead, they are like a scene out of the Wizard of Oz continually and shrilly telling us to pay no attention to the Man Behind The Curtain.

What I love about the repeated claim that "there is widespread, significant voter fraud", is that if the people claiming this really believed it, then they wouldn't be insisting on it so loudly. They would just wait for the investigations to prove them right and then laugh at Biden voters. Case closed.

Instead, they are like a scene out of the Wizard of Oz continually and shrilly telling us to pay no attention to the facts.
  I have to laugh at that one, since it seems to ignore a very  loud, very shrill press that proclaimed no evidence of voter fraud whatsoever, and keeps sliding the goalposts on that one.  But thanks for the laugh.  But I would agree both sides of that discussion are way too emotionally invested to want facts at this point.  Both just want results, and that gets a little dangerous.

Exactly. We have celebrities and the press proclaiming Biden as the new President before the electoral college even votes. If the results weren't so tight, they might have a point, but it's not. It's razor thin, and Trump doesn't have to concede. Meanwhile Biden has set up some crazy "Office of the President Elect" which has all the legal authority as "The Ministry of Silly Walks".

Trump is President until January, no matter what, and he has every right to challenge the results in court to make sure the voting was fair and impartial.
Maybe nothing will come of it, and we get 4 years of Biden bombing the middle east and taking our due process rights away, but if any of Trump's lawsuits bear fruit, people crowing about how Trump lost are gonna look mighty foolish come December.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 14, 2020, 12:29:07 PM

  I have to laugh at that one, since it seems to ignore a very  loud, very shrill press that proclaimed no evidence of voter fraud whatsoever, and keeps sliding the goalposts on that one.  But thanks for the laugh.  But I would agree both sides of that discussion are way too emotionally invested to want facts at this point.  Both just want results, and that gets a little dangerous.

We can laugh about this all (I am enjoying the shit-talking), but I am really concerned that the confidence of Americans in our media and electoral system has been permanently damaged by these events.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on November 14, 2020, 02:01:51 PM
Who needs votes or even Democracy if all that matters is "reasons and feels" and not the actual process of legitimate and fair elections.

Allow me to break it down for you.

Way back in the seventeenth century the Enlightenment thinkers, perhaps most fundamentally Locke, determined that Reason alone could determine objective truth.  Needless to say this caught on like wildfire and saw such developments as Twitter and TikTok.

Kant, who largely agreed with the enlightenment thinkers, however, had a problem in that he was a pretty religious guy and Religious thinkers all the way back to the eleventh century and probably earlier, had recognized that too much reason eventually led to a loss of Faith.  Faith, of course, holds that Objective Truth is only available through God*.  So, Kant wrote his Critique of Pure Reason, which holds that the mind (the seat of Reason) cannot know objective reality because it doesn't directly interact with reality... it only knows what our deeply flawed and imperfect senses tell us.

Now, to speed this up: This eventually spawned a 'Counter-Enlightenment' which is fundamentally defined by its opposition to Reason. Kirkegaard (spelling. I know.), among other post-Kant philosophers of the Counter-Enlightenment, enshrined Emotion as the arbiter of Truth, to put it exceedingly crudely.  This, btw, is also where you find Nietzche (Spelling, again. Fuckign moon languages, man...) and his 'Will to Power', which is fundamentally what I used to consider Telelogical thought, but can now see as more clearly Counter-Enlightenment.

Socialists were all quite happily on the Counter-Enlightenment side, as are most modern Progressives, which is bizzare when you realize their political philosophy is attached at the hip to the idea of science and smart guys leading us all to a perfectly ordered techno-utopia.

In conclusion (or TL;DR if you like): While most modern Leftists are probably not remotely cognizent of all this (though to be sure the Post-Modernist philosophers such as Foucalt and Derrida absolutely were), the have been immersed in a milieu informed entirely of this means of looking at the world for most of their lives.  For them rejecting Objective Truth and Reason in favor of Feels is not a bug, its a feature.   Whether they know it or not, they simply don't respect Reason.











*Yes, I know. There are OTHER religions out there.  Don't be a pedant.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 14, 2020, 02:14:11 PM
Say what you will about the evils of Nepotism because on the other hand we have peace in the Middle East.

Billy Carter arranged the Camp David Accords? Or Roger Clinton gets credit for the Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty?

Oh, you mean normalization of relations between Israel and countries that never fought wars with Israel.  ::)

Yes, that is what peace means "normalisation"

LOL.

Call me when relations are normalized between countries that have actually ever been at war.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on November 14, 2020, 02:39:21 PM

Is he still calling himself "Doctor"?

While it is a bit pretentious, Gorka does have a doctorate in Political Science. Strictly speaking, he isn't wrong.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 14, 2020, 03:40:44 PM
Also, what would a Biden cabinet look like (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/who-are-contenders-for-biden-s-cabinet/ar-BB1aUhVz?ocid=msedgntp)?

Non-criminal. Non-nepotistic. Competent.

Obviously you haven't heard about Hunter Biden, son of Joe Biden......

I can't imagine appointing Hunter Biden to any cabinet position, in any administration. But especially not going to happen in the administration run by his father that respects laws, including the anti-nepotism statutes.

It's amusing that Trump claimed we'd never hear about the coronavirus after election day, and yet it's even more in the news than ever. The election season topics that really drop off after election day (only to be brought out, as you do, for partisan attacks) are all the ones that Republicans flog in election season - ebola in 2014, Hillary's emails in 2016, those dangerous immigrant caravans in 2018 and, for 2020, Hunter Biden's laptops conveniently dropped off with multiple conservatives.  ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 14, 2020, 08:04:41 PM
Pennsylvania court: Secretary of state lacked authority to change deadline 2 days before Election Day
Judge ruled ballots that were previously set aside should not be counted

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pennsylvania-court-secretary-of-state-changed-deadline

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 14, 2020, 08:28:47 PM
There was and IS Voter Fraud.

It was very widespread.

It is also Very Difficult to prove.
One side is just better at being corrupt and criminal than the other side.
Just look at the Chicago political machine of the 1960s....

Poor Richard Nixon, cheated of his 1960 presidential victory by Daley's machine. Luckily he retained the moral high ground for all time by never engaging in any election related criminal activity!

(And about the 1960 election... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/08/heres-a-voter-fraud-myth-richard-daley-stole-illinois-for-john-kennedy-in-the-1960-election/ )

Single cases of voter fraud? No reason to believe only one side does it - Trump supporter arrested in Forty Fort PA trying to get an absentee ballot for his dead mother. Other cases exist in past elections where conservatives voted more than once because they believed they had to balance out the evil opposition that was already doing it. Every reason to believe it's rare enough that it isn't going to swing elections that aren't as close as Florida in 2000. Finding all those cases would be nice, but it's not going to swing the election when state totals are 10,000 plus; delaying the transition work endlessly to find the cheating for each candidate just makes our country less safe. (If 9/11 had been 2/11, there might be an argument that the lengthy dispute in 2000 was to blame for slowing down Bush administration preparation.)

But you ignore that the Republicans are the masters of election fraud, which operates on a scale that can swing elections: voter suppression, poll closings, gerrymandering*, robocalls to intimidate and misinform voters, poll taxes, court cases, and so on. (Where in the past some of these were tools of Democrats, it was mostly by the racist Democrats who moved to the Republican party that embraced them after the Civil Rights era.) I'm open to improving election security (the thing that Senate Republicans blocked funding for), but the Republican proposals are always rigged to prevent voting to give them an advantage.

(* no effect on the presidential election, except if the House chooses the winner with one vote per state or when Republicans continue to hold state legislatures where majorities have voted for Democrats, and the Trump campaign is calling on them to appoint electors opposite to the voters' choice...)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 14, 2020, 08:47:31 PM

  I have to laugh at that one, since it seems to ignore a very  loud, very shrill press that proclaimed no evidence of voter fraud whatsoever, and keeps sliding the goalposts on that one.  But thanks for the laugh.  But I would agree both sides of that discussion are way too emotionally invested to want facts at this point.  Both just want results, and that gets a little dangerous.

We can laugh about this all (I am enjoying the shit-talking), but I am really concerned that the confidence of Americans in our media and electoral system has been permanently damaged by these events.

Well, the Media has been shit for at least two decades now, since they totally obey everything that comes from the slimeballs in D.C., as well as in business, and fail to challenge the status quo, or even question authority. Evidence of a corrupt media, the newspapers have been losing money (and influence) to online media since the late 80's, and have had to find new revenue sources through two primary methods. One, offering new digital services which is lackluster at best, they have only been able to step up their game by taking a stand for or against some political faction. Another words, they abandoned their impartiality to earn $$$. Pay for play.

The other way is by being bought out. All the players at the newspaper then get to retire with fat wallets. an example, the Washington Post, a national newspaper that for decades served as a beacon of truth, honesty, and impartiality. Who owns it now? Jeff Bezos of Amazon. Will the post be critical or closely examine liberals, the media, or Amazon? Not on your life. Will they report truthfully about the right, or about anyone critical of high tech. Very unlikely. Their credentials were tarnished though before Bezos bought them, back when they neglected to report the CIA was running guns to the Nicaraguan government and Contra drugs from Nicaragua to the U.S. so they could buy more guns and ammoas part of a private raising operation being conducted in the late 80's and early 90's with that loser Oliver North. Who, by the way, was a total disgrace to the uniform he served with. American Drug addiction problems were caused by American "Patriots" and the newspapers including the Washington Post were complicit and helped the drug runners and dictators supported by the CIA in not reporting accurately on all of that.

I won't even go into what a joke the "embedding" process was, when the who reporters should have been reporting accurately on Saddam Hussein and Iraq, as well as later, during the 2nd Invasion of Iraq in 2003 failed to leave the American military units they were embedded with, to find the true stories, and instead accepted the spoon fed pablum the military industrial complex was feeding them. Poor Jonesy the Reporter, afraid to do real reporting becuase maybe an Arab bullet would find him. What a bunch of pussies. I went to Arabia and didn't stay with American military, or government people, and learned many truths about the place where I was living. Was I in danger of being kidnapped? Yes. Did it happen? No. I talked privately with Palestinians, Egyptians, Iraqis, Saudis, Yemeni's Shia, Sunni, Folks who later joined Isis and Al-Quada. Hell, the American military guys in Saudi Arabia were actively working with the Taliban when I was there in the 80's  (Before the first Gulf Wwar). This was back when the Taliban was f*^king up the Russians in Afghanistan, by the way, and prior to our major military commitments into the Middle East.

So no. The news and media people with the exception of a few outstanding individuals like Christiane Amanpour are lazy, ignorant, ill-informed, and propogate their ignorance in place of the truth. They have lost their own credibility over the last few decades through their incompetence and pandering to power-brokers, instead of remaining committed to Truth, Liberty, and Justice, for all.

Our Electoral system has always had problems, but the extreme polarization of the political parties are putting additional stress on the Electoral system. It is worth putting additional resources into strengthening the electoral process, and this should be accomplished by non-affiliated people who are not earning a living as either part of the government or private industry/Corporations. Plus what Rawma says above. Too  many shitnags trying to unduly influence the elections for personal gain.
 

 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 14, 2020, 10:13:06 PM
There's only 8-9 days left. After certification in enough states, it's a done deal. Trump's already lost lawsuits filed in Pennsylvania, Arizona and Michigan. Lawyers from the Ohio-based law firm Porter Wright Morris & Arthur abruptly withdrew from a federal lawsuit they had filed only days earlier on his behalf in Pennsylvania. The lawyer for the Trump campaign dropped its so-called Sharpiegate lawsuit in Arizona. The lawyer, Kory Langhofer, acknowledged that not enough presidential votes were at stake in the case to affect the outcome of the race.

The president’s Department of Homeland Security contradicted the President by declaring that the election “was the most secure in American history” and that “there is no evidence” any voting systems malfunctioned.

On Friday, 16 federal prosecutors who had been assigned to monitor the election also directly debunked claims of widespread fraud, saying in a letter to Attorney General William P. Barr that there was no evidence of substantial irregularities.

So yes, let's wait the 8-9 days to see if any lawsuits or investigations find something meaningful enough to overturn the apparent election results. But...it sure looks like in 9 days the election will be certified and Biden will have won.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 14, 2020, 10:46:47 PM
Some more info:
https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2020/11/09/claire-woodall-vogg/
https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2020/11/10/green-bay-election-tainted-clerk/
https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/SpecialPublications/NIST.SP.1500-100r2.pdf
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on November 14, 2020, 11:04:58 PM
The president’s Department of Homeland Security contradicted the President by declaring that the election “was the most secure in American history” and that “there is no evidence” any voting systems malfunctioned.

Yeah the bureaucrats always listened to him the last 4 years too...  ::) They can't easily be fired, they were there before him and they will be there after him.

I'll just vote Libertarian now on for President since they can fraud the blue cities to overturn any candidate I vote for. Perhaps the down ballot stuff will be genuine, most of the time.

Then again, we may not have a country in 4 years of President Harris.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 14, 2020, 11:10:02 PM
The president’s Department of Homeland Security contradicted the President by declaring that the election “was the most secure in American history” and that “there is no evidence” any voting systems malfunctioned.

Yeah the bureaucrats always listened to him the last 4 years too...  ::) They can't easily be fired, they were there before him and they will be there after him.

I'll just vote Libertarian now on for President since they can fraud the blue cities to overturn any candidate I vote for. Perhaps the down ballot stuff will be genuine, most of the time.

Then again, we may not have a country in 4 years of President Harris.

This is quite the massive conspiracy the Democrats are able to pull off if you think they control that many state elections and the Federal Government and the judges. With competency like that, why are you bothered by them?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on November 14, 2020, 11:18:29 PM
This is quite the massive conspiracy the Democrats are able to pull off if you think they control that many state elections and the Federal Government and the judges. With competency like that, why are you bothered by them?
Are you really trying to pretend that the Federal Bureaucracy is not overwhelmingly left, as the left grows and sustains the bureaucracy?

https://freebeacon.com/politics/federal-government-workers-donating-overwhelmingly-democrats/
https://www.fedsmith.com/2020/01/27/federal-employees-unions-political-donations/

And competency to do what? To fuck over the middle class? To shred the rights of those with "wrongthink", to try to take all the guns? Fuck your "competency."
It took 2 states to steal the election in 1960 for Kennedy. This time, it took 3 to 5. It's not unbelievable in any way, shape or form.

Edited to remove ad hominem.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 15, 2020, 01:08:45 AM
This is quite the massive conspiracy the Democrats are able to pull off if you think they control that many state elections and the Federal Government and the judges. With competency like that, why are you bothered by them?
Are you really trying to pretend that the Federal Bureaucracy is not overwhelmingly left, as the left grows and sustains the bureaucracy?

https://freebeacon.com/politics/federal-government-workers-donating-overwhelmingly-democrats/
https://www.fedsmith.com/2020/01/27/federal-employees-unions-political-donations/

And competency to do what? To fuck over the middle class? To shred the rights of those with "wrongthink", to try to take all the guns? Fuck your "competency."
It took 2 states to steal the election in 1960 for Kennedy. This time, it took 3 to 5. It's not unbelievable in any way, shape or form.

Edited to remove ad hominem.

Being left is no more special than being right and is not itself related to being successful at pulling off a massive conspiracy.

Biden won 5 states that Trump won last time. And not just in those states, but in many counties in those states. And you are saying Democrats are so highly competent they not only arranged for a conspiracy in all of those places simultaneously, but also the Department of Homeland Security, the FBI, and literally dozens of judges many of which were appointed by Republicans are all in on it. Some Republican Governors are also in on it.

But also, for some bizarre reason, they didn't use those same ballots to vote in Democratic Senators, Democratic legislators, or Democratic House members. In fact they must have, apparently, voted for Republicans down ticket on those ballots. For...reasons?

If you really think they are that competent and efficient, you should support them. Fuck, imagine what they could do for the success of the U.S. if they have that much power and competency and efficiency.

Or, and this is just possible, or this is fiction manufactured as part of grief to deal with the cognitive dissonance that comes with expecting your guy to win and then he loses. The kind where you grasp onto any evidence, any biased source, and spin it as best you can to try and explain how this thing which feels unfair because it's not what you wanted or expected is actually real and happening. Even though you know in your heart it does not, in fact, add up to nearly enough to make it so that your expectations were reality.

It's OK. It's difficult to learn Santa isn't real. Which is not me mocking you, it's just an analogy to a feeling which I understand. Trump lost. And that's difficult to take in complex and meaningful ways. But, it's true.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Aglondir on November 15, 2020, 01:30:44 AM
Allow me to break it down for you.

That's actually not bad. Where do you put Marx in that?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 15, 2020, 02:01:09 AM
Gore had 37 days to deal with one state issue, but Trump only has 8-9 days left?

We can laugh about this all (I am enjoying the shit-talking), but I am really concerned that the confidence of Americans in our media and electoral system has been permanently damaged by these events.

Hogwash!

We have tremendous confidence that the US media is absolutely full of shit and the electoral system is completely corrupted, and neither can be trusted whatsoever.

That confidence is riding at an all time high!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 15, 2020, 03:58:44 AM
We have to get over the feeling that it can’t happen here.

It’s been happening here for years.  The US is not special; it’s people are, but not the apparatus nor the process. 

The desire to believe money and power work differently here because we have the Constitution is very helpful.  To some.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on November 15, 2020, 04:05:19 AM
"Then you will have to fight in your country as we fight here."
"Yes, we will have to fight."
"But are there not many fascists in your country?"
"There are many who do not know they are fascists but will find it out when the time comes."
- Hemingway, For Whom The Bell Tolls
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 15, 2020, 11:56:49 AM
We have to get over the feeling that it can’t happen here.

It’s been happening here for years.  The US is not special; it’s people are, but not the apparatus nor the process. 

The desire to believe money and power work differently here because we have the Constitution is very helpful.  To some.

Are you even open to the possibility that Trump lost?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 15, 2020, 01:15:28 PM
I am open to a full forensic audit of the vote and using the secret service ink database to see if the VBM or absentee votes have normal distribution of ink types.  So I'm not shut off from the possibility.  But I'm absolutely not open to the idea that the media and political actors of this country would respect the process.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 15, 2020, 01:25:55 PM
  What is the saying, "Enjoy the decline."   I would give it a 6-10 year timer on full blow insurrection.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on November 15, 2020, 01:40:45 PM
Have you guys been paying attention to the news?   The copioid epidemic has reached a critical level and the national salt mine has been moved from the left side of the internet to the right.  Crazy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 15, 2020, 02:24:11 PM
Pennsylvania court: Secretary of state lacked authority to change deadline 2 days before Election Day
Judge ruled ballots that were previously set aside should not be counted

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pennsylvania-court-secretary-of-state-changed-deadline

I just checked Marc E. Elias's twitter feed and apparently Trump and allies have one win against 20 losses. The single win which you report affected ballots in Pennsylvania which had not been counted or added to anyone's total. Not a case that's going to affect the 66,000+ Biden lead in that state at all, let alone swing a state result.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on November 15, 2020, 02:56:39 PM
Allow me to break it down for you.

That's actually not bad. Where do you put Marx in that?

Hegel and the German Idealism Movement follows Kant with the idea that reality is unknowable to the Mind due to the imperfection of the Senses.   Marx was a student of Hegel, indirectly but quite explicitly, and generally follows with the ideals of the Counter Enlightenment in roughly its third generation of philosophical transmission.


To expand from the whole Counter Enlightentment, without going completely off topic, if you've ever been confused by the left-right dichotomy of political discussion, and how explicitly socialist movements such as Nazism and Fascism can be placed on 'The Right'... well, let me explain:

We have at least THREE different political divides being used concurrently in modern political discourse, and while to some extent they actually do line up reasonably well, this only hightens the confusion.

The classic divide comes from the French Republic, with the Liberals (The Republicans) on the Left and the Conservatives (the Monarchists, which is no longer relevant) on the Right, from their seating arrangements, of all things. 

The second is the divide understood by the American Founding Fathers, in which Left and Right were largely arbitrary, but where Statism is on the Left and Individualism is on the right, and where the course of the country should lie somewhere in the squishy middle.  Thus American Conservativism tends to differ greatly in tone from European Conservatism, as it is less based on Traditionalism and more on Small Government Individualism, which is why on the 'far right' Conservative has... being largely viewed through a European/Globalist perspective... become something of an epithet.

The final divide in our trio (I'm sure there are other left/right divides) is the purely Counter Englightenment Left Right divide between International and National branches of Socialism. Don't ask me how ALL of the classic Counter-Enlightenment thinkers managed to find their way to Socialism... its too big a topic for me to do it proper justice.  Anyway, they went on and on in this debate about the left and right in their own terms for at least a century, only ending when the German Final Solution made any serious attempts at National Socialism a public relations nightmare, thus ending the debate entirely, but leaving the traditional 'right wing' assignment... which is as noted ONLY Valid within discussions of Socialist divisions... to confuse everyone who isn't actually a socialist.  In this particular case it doesn't appear to have started as a means of bowlderizing language to engage in the standard sophist argumentative techniques so beloved of the entire spectrum of Counter Enlightenment defenders... but that would lead me to a discussion about Year Zero thinking, and my lunch break is already over, so...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 15, 2020, 05:02:13 PM
Gore had 37 days to deal with one state issue, but Trump only has 8-9 days left?

A difference of 537 votes in a state with almost 6 million votes cast justifies a lot more care than the present clear victory by Biden; care that was never taken then until the next year, when a full recount under a consistent standard showed that Gore would actually have won. And of course many of the problems that 2000 showed us were subsequently fixed; more importantly, Democrats were ready this time for the level of hypocrisy and dishonesty Republicans would inevitably put forward.

How many days do you think would be appropriate for finalizing an election in states with differences of 10 to 20 thousand out of fewer votes than Florida in 2000? Unlike Republicans in 2000, Democrats have no objection to the full recount in Georgia. And the Republicans, who criticized Gore so much for going after only some counties in Florida, ... are now selectively targeting individual counties in multiple states.

Quote
That confidence is riding at an all time high!

Keep denying the results! For me, every day is like enjoying a new Biden victory!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 15, 2020, 05:29:41 PM
Our Electoral system has always had problems, but the extreme polarization of the political parties are putting additional stress on the Electoral system. It is worth putting additional resources into strengthening the electoral process, and this should be accomplished by non-affiliated people who are not earning a living as either part of the government or private industry/Corporations. Plus what Rawma says above. Too  many shitnags trying to unduly influence the elections for personal gain. 
Gamedaddy - Both Pat and I responded to your earlier claim. You stated that the odds are 308 to 1 that the vote would be that close in the three states.

What do you suppose the odds are statistically speaking that we have elections in three states PA, GA, AZ with a combined population of 15,400,000 people voting, and the separation of all three combined vote tallies is less than 50,000.

The odds are 308 to 1 the vote should be that close in three states combined.

So this is not an accident. Nor is the narrow race apparently the result of people just voting.

This is flatly bad logic. I can see how you calculated 308 to 1 here. The underlying assumption is that there is a flat random chance that Trump would get anywhere from 0% to 100% of each state. But I believe that assumption is completely off-base. If Trump got either 3% or 97%, those aren't equally likely to getting 50%.

I don't want to drop this because people keep claiming "so many red flags" - but when any given red flag is challenged, they just drop it and move on to a different claim. At least Tucker Carlson, for example, is willing to issue an apology when he falsely claimed that a dead mailman, James Blalock, voted in the Georgia election.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/525980-tucker-carlson-issues-on-air-apology-over-georgia-voter-claims

In his segment, the Blalock case was specifically cited out by Carlson as the prime example of dead people voting. Carlson says "No one embodies this story like James Blalock" before going on to detail specifics.

To Gamedaddy - are you willing to discuss your "308 to 1" odds claim, and address criticism of the calculation? Or possibly admit that it was wrong?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 15, 2020, 05:38:57 PM
Who needs votes or even Democracy if all that matters is "reasons and feels" and not the actual process of legitimate and fair elections.

Allow me to break it down for you.

Way back in the seventeenth century the Enlightenment thinkers, perhaps most fundamentally Locke, determined that Reason alone could determine objective truth.  Needless to say this caught on like wildfire and saw such developments as Twitter and TikTok.

Kant, who largely agreed with the enlightenment thinkers, however, had a problem in that he was a pretty religious guy and Religious thinkers all the way back to the eleventh century and probably earlier, had recognized that too much reason eventually led to a loss of Faith.  Faith, of course, holds that Objective Truth is only available through God*.  So, Kant wrote his Critique of Pure Reason, which holds that the mind (the seat of Reason) cannot know objective reality because it doesn't directly interact with reality... it only knows what our deeply flawed and imperfect senses tell us.

Now, to speed this up: This eventually spawned a 'Counter-Enlightenment' which is fundamentally defined by its opposition to Reason. Kirkegaard (spelling. I know.), among other post-Kant philosophers of the Counter-Enlightenment, enshrined Emotion as the arbiter of Truth, to put it exceedingly crudely.  This, btw, is also where you find Nietzche (Spelling, again. Fuckign moon languages, man...) and his 'Will to Power', which is fundamentally what I used to consider Telelogical thought, but can now see as more clearly Counter-Enlightenment.

Socialists were all quite happily on the Counter-Enlightenment side, as are most modern Progressives, which is bizzare when you realize their political philosophy is attached at the hip to the idea of science and smart guys leading us all to a perfectly ordered techno-utopia.

In conclusion (or TL;DR if you like): While most modern Leftists are probably not remotely cognizent of all this (though to be sure the Post-Modernist philosophers such as Foucalt and Derrida absolutely were), the have been immersed in a milieu informed entirely of this means of looking at the world for most of their lives.  For them rejecting Objective Truth and Reason in favor of Feels is not a bug, its a feature.   Whether they know it or not, they simply don't respect Reason.


*Yes, I know. There are OTHER religions out there.  Don't be a pedant.

Nice little narrative there, but...is your implication that Righties have better respect for Reason? Certainly, many libertarians tend to fetishize Reason, but most on the Right aren't really libertarian, at least ideologically.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on November 15, 2020, 06:28:36 PM

Nice little narrative there, but...is your implication that Righties have better respect for Reason? Certainly, many libertarians tend to fetishize Reason, but most on the Right aren't really libertarian, at least ideologically.

You must have missed the closer of my follow up post responding to the last question I received about the post you quoted.

The quoted post is the philosophical underpinnings of broad movements. Specific attitudes of right vs left are discussed about two posts above yours.  From a purely analytical position, I make no moral judgement about the correctness of the Counter Enlightenment movement, all the way up to Postmodernism. I disagree with them, fundamentally, and see myself as more in the Enlightenment 'branch' of modern philosophy, if you will, but I accept, among other things, that Kant's Critique of Pure Reason makes a valid argument, though I would suggest that Descartes's Demon makes an interesting counter-argument, though I don't believe it was intended as such.   

So when you ask if "The Right" has a better respect for Reason, not only are you asking about the wrong side of the political divide (you should be asking the obverse question: Do I believe the Left doesn't respect Reason?), to answer it I have to ask: Do You mean the European Traditionalist Right, the American Individualist Right, or the Counter-Enlightenment Nationalist Socialist Right?

In general I believe most people don't actually concern themselves with the foundations and intellectual underpinnings of their political beliefs, and left to their own devices most people default to 'magical thinking' over rational or, alternatively, counter-Enlightenment Irrationalist Thinking, so asking about 'most people' is a fools errand' by any metric.


Of course, we can also make the argument that none of this is particularly new.  Nietzche is rehashing the tired old arguments of Heracletius (I think... this was someone elses thesis, and I might have forgotten which discredited ancient greek philosopher they tied him too...), the Post-moderists are largely relying on argument techniques demonstrated by teh Sophists back in the day. Revolutionary movements (such as Socialism) have always bowlderized language until they are in power, or alternatively destroyed by those in power, at which point the near first order of business is always to re-assert the propriety of language, as documented by Thucydides.

We've been here before, and no matter what happens between now and January 20, and beyond, we will be here again. The big question is just how bloody it will get in the meantime.  I, for one, hope that our inevitable dark age... call it the Atomic Age Collapse... doesn't happen during my lifetime.  I'd like to think we have a few more centuries, but if I could tell the future I wouldn't be posting here, I'd be playing the lotto and living it up on some tropical beach with dancing girls.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 15, 2020, 06:53:48 PM
Keep denying the results! For me, every day is like enjoying a new Biden victory!

Mmm, smell that Biden victory.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2F1flnl3.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2020, 09:20:23 PM
Even if creaky old Joe wins, I'm looking forward to four years of accusations that he stole the election, and Democrats are going to sit there and take it, just as they accused Trump of "Russian collusion" and failed to ever prove one iota of it.

https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/864522009048494080

We're never going back to "normal". Things are far too polarized, and the rhetoric is going to get more extreme from here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 15, 2020, 10:06:07 PM
Some interesting information,
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/pollster-noticed-joe-biden-underperformed-hillary-clinton-except-four-cities/
https://nypost.com/2020/11/14/biden-cancer-initiative-spent-millions-on-payroll-zero-on-research-report/
https://twitter.com/thebias_news/status/1327755662462382080
https://twitter.com/SidneyPowell1/status/1327871455594500102
https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1327511568993701888
https://twitter.com/MajorPatriot/status/1327979176478076930

And finally, Wordpress is gone to the SJWDogs (how much longer until the OSR-Movement is completely deplatformed, I wonder...):
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/11/15/the-treehouse-is-deplatformed/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 15, 2020, 10:42:16 PM
Greetings!

Awesome video documentary of the MAGA march in Washington, D.C on Saturday.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on November 15, 2020, 11:05:24 PM
I particularly love how "The Democrats are incompetent" is somehow now seen as compatible with "The Democrats pulled off a conspiracy in 8 states simultaneously to change the federal election". Though somehow they couldn't pull off that same fraud, with those same ballots, to get the Senate or increase their seats in the House or the State legislatures. Because...reasons.
It makes as much sense as the idea that the Russians intervened in the 2016 election, but not 2018 or 2020. Did they just get bored with US politics? :D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 15, 2020, 11:22:29 PM
So a little more on specific election fraud claims.

Some interesting information,
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/pollster-noticed-joe-biden-underperformed-hillary-clinton-except-four-cities/
So this claims that "Biden underperformed Hillary Clinton in every major metro area around the country, save for Milwaukee, Detroit, Atlanta and Philadelphia."  However, that goes blatantly against the numbers I see. I just checked a few cities out of curiousity.

San Mateo: 2016 (https://www.smcacre.org/sites/main/files/file-attachments/nov16_final.pdf?1507068384) -> 237,882 Clinton vs 2020 (https://sfelections.sfgov.org/november-3-2020-election-results-summary) -> 288,333 Biden

San Francisco: 2016 (https://sfelections.org/results/20161108/) -> 345,084 Clinton vs 2020 (https://sfelections.sfgov.org/november-3-2020-election-results-summary) -> 377,737 Biden

Houston: 2016 (https://elections.sos.state.tx.us/elchist319_county101.htm) -> 707,914 Clinton vs 2020 (https://results.texas-election.com/contestdetails?officeID=1001&officeName=PRESIDENT%2FVICE-PRESIDENT&officeType=FEDERAL%20OFFICES&from=race) -> 911,913 Biden

Phoenix: 2016 (https://apps.azsos.gov/election/2016/General/Official%20Signed%20State%20Canvass.pdf) -> 702,907 Clinton vs 2020 (https://recorder.maricopa.gov/media/Summary_110320.pdf) -> 1,040,774 Biden

So I don't see how the heck he comes up with that claim. From everything I see, the differences are striking that Biden outperformed Clinton in major cities. Is there any link that shows the numbers for his claim?


https://nypost.com/2020/11/14/biden-cancer-initiative-spent-millions-on-payroll-zero-on-research-report/
https://twitter.com/thebias_news/status/1327755662462382080
https://twitter.com/SidneyPowell1/status/1327871455594500102
https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1327511568993701888
https://twitter.com/MajorPatriot/status/1327979176478076930

A number of those are complaints about potential vulnerabilities of DRE electronic voting machines, which doesn't address whether fraud has actually happened. And in general, I dislike such machines. It's better to have a paper trail, for sure. But it's overwhelmingly *Republican* states that have invested in such machines, as I posted in a map earlier.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 15, 2020, 11:29:44 PM
I particularly love how "The Democrats are incompetent" is somehow now seen as compatible with "The Democrats pulled off a conspiracy in 8 states simultaneously to change the federal election". Though somehow they couldn't pull off that same fraud, with those same ballots, to get the Senate or increase their seats in the House or the State legislatures. Because...reasons.
It makes as much sense as the idea that the Russians intervened in the 2016 election, but not 2018 or 2020. Did they just get bored with US politics? :D
I have frequently read about Russian interference. I couldn't find a good summary article per se, but there is a Wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2020_United_States_elections
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 16, 2020, 01:13:30 AM
Even if creaky old Joe wins

Oh good. Progress!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 16, 2020, 01:16:45 AM
I particularly love how "The Democrats are incompetent" is somehow now seen as compatible with "The Democrats pulled off a conspiracy in 8 states simultaneously to change the federal election". Though somehow they couldn't pull off that same fraud, with those same ballots, to get the Senate or increase their seats in the House or the State legislatures. Because...reasons.
It makes as much sense as the idea that the Russians intervened in the 2016 election, but not 2018 or 2020. Did they just get bored with US politics? :D


"Russian interference" was always "Russians put out some fake news bullshit to add chaos". It was never that they changed any election results or hacked something. And yes they put out more misinformation this year too. So? It never bothered me much. Misinformation is not that big a deal. The extremes of both political parties and bullshit groups like qanon put out so much misinformation it's hard to get worked up about more misinformation from a foreign nation.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 16, 2020, 01:22:29 AM
Even if creaky old Joe wins

Oh good. Progress!

Towards what? I've pointed out that the election isn't over until the electors are selected and they cast their votes. Biden is not the President elect.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on November 16, 2020, 02:18:07 AM
I am open to a full forensic audit of the vote and using the secret service ink database to see if the VBM or absentee votes have normal distribution of ink types.  So I'm not shut off from the possibility.  But I'm absolutely not open to the idea that the media and political actors of this country would respect the process.

Ah, the new "I just want to see Obama's LONG FORM birth certificate"! (https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/n87/Elfdart/whatever.gif?width=450&height=278&fit=bounds&crop=fill)

Pennsylvania court: Secretary of state lacked authority to change deadline 2 days before Election Day
Judge ruled ballots that were previously set aside should not be counted

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pennsylvania-court-secretary-of-state-changed-deadline

I just checked Marc E. Elias's twitter feed and apparently Trump and allies have one win against 20 losses. The single win which you report affected ballots in Pennsylvania which had not been counted or added to anyone's total. Not a case that's going to affect the 66,000+ Biden lead in that state at all, let alone swing a state result.

The Texas Lt. Governor, Dan Patrick, has offered a $1 million dollar reward for proof of voter fraud that leads to the arrest/conviction of the person voting illegally in other states. His counterpart in Pennsylvania called him on his bullshit in hilarious fashion:

https://twitter.com/JohnFetterman/status/1326311204923576321?s=20

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/n87/Elfdart/Screenshot_2020_11_15_John_Fetterman_on_Twitter.png)

The funniest part about Dan Patrick's publicity stunt is that in order to overturn the results in Pennsylvania alone, the MAGA morons would have to prove that at least 70,000 votes were fraudulent. At a million dollars each, Patrick would have to shell out over $70 BILLION that he doesn't have (the entire budget for the state of Texas for 2016 was $127 billion). Even if he only paid $25,000 for each illegal vote, he'd still have to cough up $1,750,000,000 of Texas taxpayers' money and Biden would STILL be President.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 16, 2020, 02:54:49 AM
Oh fuck, I’m on the opposite side of an argument from Elfdart using fap emojis - that’s the universe telling you there’s no reason to doubt!

The counter-arguers:

Lincoln Project crushees

Fact-checking analysts who believe the phrase “head on a pike” is not a metaphor

Assorted leftists more gleeful than any time since before they learned what “catfishing” was

Elfdart, more gleeful than any time since before he learned he could no longer catfish them

Yes, I think with opposition like this I need to reconsider RIGHT NOW before all the facts that could be, are put before a court
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 16, 2020, 09:02:34 AM
The only good meme I've seen about this was the one saying 'Not My President Season 2 starts 1/20/21, with an all new cast!'.

Which I admit was pretty funny.

But if you lefties don't think we're not going to do unto you what you spent four years doing to us? Well... it must be nice to be so easily surprised.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 16, 2020, 11:22:23 AM
The only good meme I've seen about this was the one saying 'Not My President Season 2 starts 1/20/21, with an all new cast!'.

Which I admit was pretty funny.

But if you lefties don't think we're not going to do unto you what you spent four years doing to us? Well... it must be nice to be so easily surprised.

Yeah and that's totally fair. Not My President, #ResistBiden, whatever. I felt those were lame movements from the left and called them out often, and it's only fair that the right retaliate.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on November 16, 2020, 11:53:49 AM

Is he still calling himself "Doctor"?

While it is a bit pretentious, Gorka does have a doctorate in Political Science. Strictly speaking, he isn't wrong.

He's a "doctor" like Tom Parker was a "colonel":

Haaretz (https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/the-academic-fraud-of-trumps-terrorism-expert-1.5465216)

Quote
Stop Calling Him 'Dr.': The Academic Fraud of Sebastian Gorka, Trump’s Terrorism 'Expert'

The only formally qualified examiner for Gorka’s Ph.D. on a panel packed with personal friends was an extreme right-wing Hungarian MEP who recently advocated putting pigs heads on a fence on the Hungarian border to keep out Muslims

Early on a mustache-twirling villain emerged as the face of the Trump White House. With the mannerisms of a pompous English B-movie baddy, Sebastian Gorka is to Donald Trump what the Sheriff of Nottingham was to King John. The malevolent sidekick.

Dr. Gorka styles himself as the crusading academic. A Kissinger for our troubled times. The brilliant scholar of terrorism who has taught at elite colleges and published groundbreaking research. He often reminds the imbeciles of the press that as a man of great learning only he truly comprehends the threat of Muslims.

But experts have listened to Gorka’s advocacy of the Muslim ban, attacks on the media and sterling defence of Trump’s “well-oiled’ administration and wondered how could such a well trained academic make such baseless and ignorant claims about topics he purports to be an expert on? In March he became embroiled in a remarkable spat with a Republican National Security consultant, Michael S. Smith. Gorka is flailing widely – tilting at enemies real and imagined.

I started digging and it didn’t take long to find out that Gorka is a fraud – a charlatan of the most brazen hue – a snake-oil salesman whose supposed Ph.D dissertation would have never passed muster in America or Britain and to put the cherry on the cake was approved by an fraudulent panel of examiners. The polar opposite of Lt. Gen H.R. McMasters’ celebrated dissertation awarded by UNC Chapel Hill.

Gorka is Hungarian-English. He gained an American passport in 2012. His nationalist parents fled to London from Budapest in 1956. His dissertation – Content and End-State-based Alteration in the Practice of Political Violence since the End of the Cold War: the difference between the terrorism of the Cold War and the terrorism of al Qaeda: the rise of the “transcendental terrorist, was apparently granted in 2007 by Corvinus University of Budapest.

The tract is long on Islamophobia and the unsubstantiated claims of the polemicist but short on theory, evidence or academic rigor. Corvinus is not an institution with a profile, so I looked: sadly it doesn’t even make the top 1,000 in the Times Higher Education World University Rankings.

Even Gorka’s attendance poses a mystery. When exactly was he a graduate student at the university? Did he take classes? Did he receive any training in Islam or Islamic studies? His CV notes that he left Hungary in 2004 to work for the U.S. Defense Department in Germany and then in 2008 relocated to the U.S. There is no evidence that he ever returned to live and study in Budapest.

The dissertation is online and includes the ‘evaluations’ of three referees who each presented a page of generalized comments – completely at odds with the detailed substantive and methodological evaluations that I’ve seen at every Ph.D defence I’ve been on over the last twenty years.

Two of the three referees did not even have a Ph.D. One was the U.S. Defense Attaché at the American Embassy in Budapest at the time, while the other was employed at the UK’s Defence Academy and just had a BA from Manchester University awarded in 1969.

This ‘neutral’ examiner had published a book in Hungary with Gorka three years previously. While graduate students sometimes collaborate with their advisors the independent external examiners must have no nepotistic ties with the candidate.

More important, a basic principle of assessing educational achievement is that your examiners have at least the degree level of the degree they are awarding. Undergraduates do not award Ph.Ds.

In Gorka’s case the only examiner who lists a doctorate was György Schöpflin – an extreme right wing Hungarian Member of the European Parliament who recently advocated putting pigs heads on a fence on the Hungarian border to keep out Muslims. I have been told that Schöpflin was a family friend. Both Schöpflin and Gorka’s father fled from Budapest to London in the 1950s and both moved in exile right-wing nationalist circles.

If that is true, we are left in sum with a degree that was awarded in absence – on the basis of a dissertation without basic political science methodological underpinnings – and apparently from an examining committee of two of Gorka’s diplomat friends, with only BA degrees; along with an old family friend, Schöpflin.

In sum, Gorka’s Ph.D is about as legitimate as if he had been awarded it by Trump University. Facts matter, but so does the gathering, synthesizing and creation of knowledge that is what we call ‘education.’ If you fake a Ph.D you are faking your credentials. He delivers provable untruths to the American public but is believed by many because he presents himself as an esteemed scholar of Islam. Gorka would never have got away with such chutzpah in the UK.


Experience and scholarship work in harness to produce answers to questions. When you have neither experience nor training you are likely to not merely get the answers wrong, but not even have an inkling of which questions to ask.

Clearly Gorka yearns to be taken seriously and he uses the "Dr." credentials in a way that no one who earned the degree would ever do. In his 2016 screed, Defeating Jihad: The Winnable War, he is Dr. Sebastian Gorka on the front cover.

Tacky or just an alternative fact? This is the man we have as a chief national security advisor to the President. That may not change, but lets give him the professional respect he deserves and stop calling him ‘Dr.’

Andrew Reynolds is a Professor of Political Science at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.Follow him on Twitter: @AndyReynoldsUNC

So Gorka earned his PhD the way Elvis earned his blackbelt?  LOFL!

Strange isn't it, how out of all the right-wing thinkers, the ones that attract the biggest following are crackpots (Marvin Olasky, Jordan Peterson), frauds (Gorka) or outright Nazis (Charles Murray).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 16, 2020, 12:00:42 PM
I particularly love how "The Democrats are incompetent" is somehow now seen as compatible with "The Democrats pulled off a conspiracy in 8 states simultaneously to change the federal election". Though somehow they couldn't pull off that same fraud, with those same ballots, to get the Senate or increase their seats in the House or the State legislatures. Because...reasons.
It makes as much sense as the idea that the Russians intervened in the 2016 election, but not 2018 or 2020. Did they just get bored with US politics? :D

Actually, no. Cyberspace Command shut down the Russo-botnet networks about five weeks before the election and totally f&%ked the Russian plan to flood the internet with Pro-trump propaganda.  I think they are disappointed their man in the white house is going down. The Chinese, however, ever more subtle, are quite pleased with how the elections turned out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/cyber-command-trickbot-disrupt/2020/10/09/19587aae-0a32-11eb-a166-dc429b380d10_story.html

and Microsoft is fighting too becuase the Russkis love using their crappy OS software to jack everything up...
https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2020/10/12/trickbot-ransomware-cyberthreat-us-elections/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 16, 2020, 12:22:36 PM
Even if creaky old Joe wins

Oh good. Progress!

Towards what? I've pointed out that the election isn't over until the electors are selected and they cast their votes. Biden is not the President elect.

"President-elect" is not an official term, at least according to Wikipedia. But to 80% of the US population--and 99% of the world--yes, he is.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 16, 2020, 01:38:18 PM
"President-elect" is not an official term, at least according to Wikipedia. But to 80% of the US population--and 99% of the world--yes, he is.

Your math is wrong......
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 16, 2020, 01:41:51 PM
Oh fuck, I’m on the opposite side of an argument from Elfdart using fap emojis - that’s the universe telling you there’s no reason to doubt!

The counter-arguers:

Lincoln Project crushees

Fact-checking analysts who believe the phrase “head on a pike” is not a metaphor

Assorted leftists more gleeful than any time since before they learned what “catfishing” was

Elfdart, more gleeful than any time since before he learned he could no longer catfish them

Yes, I think with opposition like this I need to reconsider RIGHT NOW before all the facts that could be, are put before a court

It seems to me that different people have different positions that fall along a spectrum, rather than just us-vs-them. Specifically about fraud, at one extreme, RandyB believes that there were over 40 million fraudulent votes cast for Biden. I'm not sure who is the other extreme on this forum - but there are certainly some liberals in general who now reflexively dismiss claims of fraud without critical thought -- just as there are some conservatives who reflexively believe claims of fraud without critical thought.

-

Also, I think I'm the one being called out over the "head on a pike". For the record, I agree that it was metaphorical, but I don't think that makes it acceptable. Specifically, I was responding to this article posted by shuddemell that calls out liberals for making metaphorical death threats:

https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/26/7-open-leftist-threats-that-political-terror-is-coming-to-america-whether-trump-wins-or-not/

I agreed with the article that the metaphorical death threats by liberals was wrong. (ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/are-you-ready-to-be-blacklisted-by-the-tolerant-fascists/msg1152446/#msg1152446)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 16, 2020, 01:45:29 PM
Oh fuck, I’m on the opposite side of an argument from Elfdart using fap emojis - that’s the universe telling you there’s no reason to doubt!

The counter-arguers:

Lincoln Project crushees

Fact-checking analysts who believe the phrase “head on a pike” is not a metaphor

Assorted leftists more gleeful than any time since before they learned what “catfishing” was

Elfdart, more gleeful than any time since before he learned he could no longer catfish them

Yes, I think with opposition like this I need to reconsider RIGHT NOW before all the facts that could be, are put before a court

It seems to me that different people have different positions that fall along a spectrum, rather than just us-vs-them. Specifically about fraud, at one extreme, RandyB believes that there were over 40 million fraudulent votes cast for Biden. I'm not sure who is the other extreme on this forum - but there are certainly some liberals in general who now reflexively dismiss claims of fraud without critical thought -- just as there are some conservatives who reflexively believe claims of fraud without critical thought.

-

Also, I think I'm the one being called out over the "head on a pike". For the record, I agree that it was metaphorical, but I don't think that makes it acceptable. Specifically, I was responding to this article posted by shuddemell that calls out liberals for making metaphorical death threats:

https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/26/7-open-leftist-threats-that-political-terror-is-coming-to-america-whether-trump-wins-or-not/

I agreed with the article that the metaphorical death threats by liberals was wrong.
I nominally agree, but you're unspeakably naive if you think those threats are merely metaphorical.

Witness the reaction to the recent march in DC by Trump supporters, and how BLM/Antifa groups acted.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 16, 2020, 02:07:50 PM
Even if creaky old Joe wins

Oh good. Progress!

Towards what? I've pointed out that the election isn't over until the electors are selected and they cast their votes. Biden is not the President elect.

"President-elect" is not an official term, at least according to Wikipedia. But to 80% of the US population--and 99% of the world--yes, he is.

Don't you mean 104 percent?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 16, 2020, 02:36:31 PM
Greetings!

WAIT, WHAT????

We have Antifa members going up and executing Trump supporters in Portland by shooting them; In Austin, Texas, we have BLM thugs firing bullets into a car, attempting to murder the driver; We have BLM thugs shooting a young WHITE mother to death because she said "All Lives Matter"; In Seattle, Washington, we have BLM mobs take over parts of the city entirely, where murder, violence, and rape is celebrated; Trump supporters are pulled from their vehicles and stumped on by swarming groups of BLM thugs; Just this last weekend, a black woman and BLM member stole a Trump supporter's American flag, and then drew a knife, and threatened to kill everyone around her.

But some cuck bitch is worried about metaphors for "Putting their heads on pikes"?

You have to be fucking kidding me?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on November 16, 2020, 02:59:38 PM

Is he still calling himself "Doctor"?

While it is a bit pretentious, Gorka does have a doctorate in Political Science. Strictly speaking, he isn't wrong.

He's a "doctor" like Tom Parker was a "colonel":

Haaretz (https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/the-academic-fraud-of-trumps-terrorism-expert-1.5465216)

Quote
Stop Calling Him 'Dr.': The Academic Fraud of Sebastian Gorka, Trump’s Terrorism 'Expert'

The only formally qualified examiner for Gorka’s Ph.D. on a panel packed with personal friends was an extreme right-wing Hungarian MEP who recently advocated putting pigs heads on a fence on the Hungarian border to keep out Muslims

Early on a mustache-twirling villain emerged as the face of the Trump White House. With the mannerisms of a pompous English B-movie baddy, Sebastian Gorka is to Donald Trump what the Sheriff of Nottingham was to King John. The malevolent sidekick.

Dr. Gorka styles himself as the crusading academic. A Kissinger for our troubled times. The brilliant scholar of terrorism who has taught at elite colleges and published groundbreaking research. He often reminds the imbeciles of the press that as a man of great learning only he truly comprehends the threat of Muslims.

But experts have listened to Gorka’s advocacy of the Muslim ban, attacks on the media and sterling defence of Trump’s “well-oiled’ administration and wondered how could such a well trained academic make such baseless and ignorant claims about topics he purports to be an expert on? In March he became embroiled in a remarkable spat with a Republican National Security consultant, Michael S. Smith. Gorka is flailing widely – tilting at enemies real and imagined.

I started digging and it didn’t take long to find out that Gorka is a fraud – a charlatan of the most brazen hue – a snake-oil salesman whose supposed Ph.D dissertation would have never passed muster in America or Britain and to put the cherry on the cake was approved by an fraudulent panel of examiners. The polar opposite of Lt. Gen H.R. McMasters’ celebrated dissertation awarded by UNC Chapel Hill.

Gorka is Hungarian-English. He gained an American passport in 2012. His nationalist parents fled to London from Budapest in 1956. His dissertation – Content and End-State-based Alteration in the Practice of Political Violence since the End of the Cold War: the difference between the terrorism of the Cold War and the terrorism of al Qaeda: the rise of the “transcendental terrorist, was apparently granted in 2007 by Corvinus University of Budapest.

The tract is long on Islamophobia and the unsubstantiated claims of the polemicist but short on theory, evidence or academic rigor. Corvinus is not an institution with a profile, so I looked: sadly it doesn’t even make the top 1,000 in the Times Higher Education World University Rankings.

Even Gorka’s attendance poses a mystery. When exactly was he a graduate student at the university? Did he take classes? Did he receive any training in Islam or Islamic studies? His CV notes that he left Hungary in 2004 to work for the U.S. Defense Department in Germany and then in 2008 relocated to the U.S. There is no evidence that he ever returned to live and study in Budapest.

The dissertation is online and includes the ‘evaluations’ of three referees who each presented a page of generalized comments – completely at odds with the detailed substantive and methodological evaluations that I’ve seen at every Ph.D defence I’ve been on over the last twenty years.

Two of the three referees did not even have a Ph.D. One was the U.S. Defense Attaché at the American Embassy in Budapest at the time, while the other was employed at the UK’s Defence Academy and just had a BA from Manchester University awarded in 1969.

This ‘neutral’ examiner had published a book in Hungary with Gorka three years previously. While graduate students sometimes collaborate with their advisors the independent external examiners must have no nepotistic ties with the candidate.

More important, a basic principle of assessing educational achievement is that your examiners have at least the degree level of the degree they are awarding. Undergraduates do not award Ph.Ds.

In Gorka’s case the only examiner who lists a doctorate was György Schöpflin – an extreme right wing Hungarian Member of the European Parliament who recently advocated putting pigs heads on a fence on the Hungarian border to keep out Muslims. I have been told that Schöpflin was a family friend. Both Schöpflin and Gorka’s father fled from Budapest to London in the 1950s and both moved in exile right-wing nationalist circles.

If that is true, we are left in sum with a degree that was awarded in absence – on the basis of a dissertation without basic political science methodological underpinnings – and apparently from an examining committee of two of Gorka’s diplomat friends, with only BA degrees; along with an old family friend, Schöpflin.

In sum, Gorka’s Ph.D is about as legitimate as if he had been awarded it by Trump University. Facts matter, but so does the gathering, synthesizing and creation of knowledge that is what we call ‘education.’ If you fake a Ph.D you are faking your credentials. He delivers provable untruths to the American public but is believed by many because he presents himself as an esteemed scholar of Islam. Gorka would never have got away with such chutzpah in the UK.


Experience and scholarship work in harness to produce answers to questions. When you have neither experience nor training you are likely to not merely get the answers wrong, but not even have an inkling of which questions to ask.

Clearly Gorka yearns to be taken seriously and he uses the "Dr." credentials in a way that no one who earned the degree would ever do. In his 2016 screed, Defeating Jihad: The Winnable War, he is Dr. Sebastian Gorka on the front cover.

Tacky or just an alternative fact? This is the man we have as a chief national security advisor to the President. That may not change, but lets give him the professional respect he deserves and stop calling him ‘Dr.’

Andrew Reynolds is a Professor of Political Science at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.Follow him on Twitter: @AndyReynoldsUNC

So Gorka earned his PhD the way Elvis earned his blackbelt?  LOFL!

Strange isn't it, how out of all the right-wing thinkers, the ones that attract the biggest following are crackpots (Marvin Olasky, Jordan Peterson), frauds (Gorka) or outright Nazis (Charles Murray).

Interesting if true, but then I'll have to vet the author of this "takedown" as well. After reading around the link you provided, I am skeptical that the person that wrote this opinion piece is even remotely unbiased. You may not respect his doctorate, but ostensibly he does have one. I do agree that very few (not a medical doctor would actually call themselves a doctor) would use this title, and as I mentioned I find it tacky. Though I have had professors that insisted on just that, so it's not unheard of. Not sure where you get the notion that Murray is a Nazi. Sam Harris certainly doesn't think so, nor do I. Just because he has examined some politically incorrect subjects is no reason to slander the man. Secondly, the only real Nazi's basically died out 75+ years, so hyperbole aside, what's your beef with Murray? As to the crackpots... that's an opinion, and it's pretty obvious your biases are showing. I would wager Peterson has published more cited publications than you have read in your lifetime, perhaps not, but I'll trust the prevailing opinion in lieu of yours.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 16, 2020, 03:34:13 PM

Is he still calling himself "Doctor"?

While it is a bit pretentious, Gorka does have a doctorate in Political Science. Strictly speaking, he isn't wrong.

He's a "doctor" like Tom Parker was a "colonel":

Haaretz (https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/the-academic-fraud-of-trumps-terrorism-expert-1.5465216)

Quote
Stop Calling Him 'Dr.': The Academic Fraud of Sebastian Gorka, Trump’s Terrorism 'Expert'

The only formally qualified examiner for Gorka’s Ph.D. on a panel packed with personal friends was an extreme right-wing Hungarian MEP who recently advocated putting pigs heads on a fence on the Hungarian border to keep out Muslims

Early on a mustache-twirling villain emerged as the face of the Trump White House. With the mannerisms of a pompous English B-movie baddy, Sebastian Gorka is to Donald Trump what the Sheriff of Nottingham was to King John. The malevolent sidekick.

Dr. Gorka styles himself as the crusading academic. A Kissinger for our troubled times. The brilliant scholar of terrorism who has taught at elite colleges and published groundbreaking research. He often reminds the imbeciles of the press that as a man of great learning only he truly comprehends the threat of Muslims.

But experts have listened to Gorka’s advocacy of the Muslim ban, attacks on the media and sterling defence of Trump’s “well-oiled’ administration and wondered how could such a well trained academic make such baseless and ignorant claims about topics he purports to be an expert on? In March he became embroiled in a remarkable spat with a Republican National Security consultant, Michael S. Smith. Gorka is flailing widely – tilting at enemies real and imagined.

I started digging and it didn’t take long to find out that Gorka is a fraud – a charlatan of the most brazen hue – a snake-oil salesman whose supposed Ph.D dissertation would have never passed muster in America or Britain and to put the cherry on the cake was approved by an fraudulent panel of examiners. The polar opposite of Lt. Gen H.R. McMasters’ celebrated dissertation awarded by UNC Chapel Hill.

Gorka is Hungarian-English. He gained an American passport in 2012. His nationalist parents fled to London from Budapest in 1956. His dissertation – Content and End-State-based Alteration in the Practice of Political Violence since the End of the Cold War: the difference between the terrorism of the Cold War and the terrorism of al Qaeda: the rise of the “transcendental terrorist, was apparently granted in 2007 by Corvinus University of Budapest.

The tract is long on Islamophobia and the unsubstantiated claims of the polemicist but short on theory, evidence or academic rigor. Corvinus is not an institution with a profile, so I looked: sadly it doesn’t even make the top 1,000 in the Times Higher Education World University Rankings.

Even Gorka’s attendance poses a mystery. When exactly was he a graduate student at the university? Did he take classes? Did he receive any training in Islam or Islamic studies? His CV notes that he left Hungary in 2004 to work for the U.S. Defense Department in Germany and then in 2008 relocated to the U.S. There is no evidence that he ever returned to live and study in Budapest.

The dissertation is online and includes the ‘evaluations’ of three referees who each presented a page of generalized comments – completely at odds with the detailed substantive and methodological evaluations that I’ve seen at every Ph.D defence I’ve been on over the last twenty years.

Two of the three referees did not even have a Ph.D. One was the U.S. Defense Attaché at the American Embassy in Budapest at the time, while the other was employed at the UK’s Defence Academy and just had a BA from Manchester University awarded in 1969.

This ‘neutral’ examiner had published a book in Hungary with Gorka three years previously. While graduate students sometimes collaborate with their advisors the independent external examiners must have no nepotistic ties with the candidate.

More important, a basic principle of assessing educational achievement is that your examiners have at least the degree level of the degree they are awarding. Undergraduates do not award Ph.Ds.

In Gorka’s case the only examiner who lists a doctorate was György Schöpflin – an extreme right wing Hungarian Member of the European Parliament who recently advocated putting pigs heads on a fence on the Hungarian border to keep out Muslims. I have been told that Schöpflin was a family friend. Both Schöpflin and Gorka’s father fled from Budapest to London in the 1950s and both moved in exile right-wing nationalist circles.

If that is true, we are left in sum with a degree that was awarded in absence – on the basis of a dissertation without basic political science methodological underpinnings – and apparently from an examining committee of two of Gorka’s diplomat friends, with only BA degrees; along with an old family friend, Schöpflin.

In sum, Gorka’s Ph.D is about as legitimate as if he had been awarded it by Trump University. Facts matter, but so does the gathering, synthesizing and creation of knowledge that is what we call ‘education.’ If you fake a Ph.D you are faking your credentials. He delivers provable untruths to the American public but is believed by many because he presents himself as an esteemed scholar of Islam. Gorka would never have got away with such chutzpah in the UK.


Experience and scholarship work in harness to produce answers to questions. When you have neither experience nor training you are likely to not merely get the answers wrong, but not even have an inkling of which questions to ask.

Clearly Gorka yearns to be taken seriously and he uses the "Dr." credentials in a way that no one who earned the degree would ever do. In his 2016 screed, Defeating Jihad: The Winnable War, he is Dr. Sebastian Gorka on the front cover.

Tacky or just an alternative fact? This is the man we have as a chief national security advisor to the President. That may not change, but lets give him the professional respect he deserves and stop calling him ‘Dr.’

Andrew Reynolds is a Professor of Political Science at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.Follow him on Twitter: @AndyReynoldsUNC

So Gorka earned his PhD the way Elvis earned his blackbelt?  LOFL!

Strange isn't it, how out of all the right-wing thinkers, the ones that attract the biggest following are crackpots (Marvin Olasky, Jordan Peterson), frauds (Gorka) or outright Nazis (Charles Murray).

Interesting if true, but then I'll have to vet the author of this "takedown" as well. After reading around the link you provided, I am skeptical that the person that wrote this opinion piece is even remotely unbiased. You may not respect his doctorate, but ostensibly he does have one. I do agree that very few (not a medical doctor would actually call themselves a doctor) would use this title, and as I mentioned I find it tacky. Though I have had professors that insisted on just that, so it's not unheard of. Not sure where you get the notion that Murray is a Nazi. Sam Harris certainly doesn't think so, nor do I. Just because he has examined some politically incorrect subjects is no reason to slander the man. Secondly, the only real Nazi's basically died out 75+ years, so hyperbole aside, what's your beef with Murray? As to the crackpots... that's an opinion, and it's pretty obvious your biases are showing. I would wager Peterson has published more cited publications than you have read in your lifetime, perhaps not, but I'll trust the prevailing opinion in lieu of yours.

Greetings!

Yeah, Shuddemell! I have had *many* professors refer to themselves as DR--quite explicitly, as a matter of fact. What's with the quaint insistence by others that *only* Medical Doctors are referred to as "DR."? I would say most academics I have seen refer to themselves as DR. History, Philosophy, Political Science, Anthropology, and on and on.

As one Philosophy Professor told me, "I studied for 12 years and more to earn my Ph.D. So I am quite entitled to be referred to as DR, thank you very much. Courts of Law, academic institutions and more fully recognize the merit and status of DR, and those that have put in the work to achieve such a title."

I'm not sure where these people get the idea that only medical experts are doctors--they aren't. There are different specialties, but the achievement of PH.D. is still DR for whoever has achieved that status, and rightfully so. For those to insist that only medical people are DR is ignorant and pathetic, and simply not true or accurate.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on November 16, 2020, 03:45:39 PM
Agreed. It's a tactic used to smear someone without good reason. To suggest they don't deserve the title they worked hard to achieve. The left isn't real big on respecting their enemies, so it doesn't surprise me. I am sure it won't be long until he tells us Dr. Thomas Sowell and Dr. Walter E. Williams are not only not deserving of that title but racists to boot. Typically smear playbook. That was actually the point I was making, as I don't really follow or know much of what Dr. Gorka proposes, etc. What I do know, is that if he has a doctorate, that he earned the title...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on November 16, 2020, 03:47:05 PM
"President-elect" is not an official term, at least according to Wikipedia. But to 80% of the US population--and 99% of the world--yes, he is.

Your math is wrong......

Tragically so, off by a factor of 2 or more... (Because if he was right, they wouldn't have had to cheat so egregiously to try and steal the election. :))
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 16, 2020, 03:47:54 PM

Is he still calling himself "Doctor"?

While it is a bit pretentious, Gorka does have a doctorate in Political Science. Strictly speaking, he isn't wrong.

He's a "doctor" like Tom Parker was a "colonel":

Haaretz (https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/the-academic-fraud-of-trumps-terrorism-expert-1.5465216)

Quote
Stop Calling Him 'Dr.': The Academic Fraud of Sebastian Gorka, Trump’s Terrorism 'Expert'

The only formally qualified examiner for Gorka’s Ph.D. on a panel packed with personal friends was an extreme right-wing Hungarian MEP who recently advocated putting pigs heads on a fence on the Hungarian border to keep out Muslims

Early on a mustache-twirling villain emerged as the face of the Trump White House. With the mannerisms of a pompous English B-movie baddy, Sebastian Gorka is to Donald Trump what the Sheriff of Nottingham was to King John. The malevolent sidekick.

Dr. Gorka styles himself as the crusading academic. A Kissinger for our troubled times. The brilliant scholar of terrorism who has taught at elite colleges and published groundbreaking research. He often reminds the imbeciles of the press that as a man of great learning only he truly comprehends the threat of Muslims.

But experts have listened to Gorka’s advocacy of the Muslim ban, attacks on the media and sterling defence of Trump’s “well-oiled’ administration and wondered how could such a well trained academic make such baseless and ignorant claims about topics he purports to be an expert on? In March he became embroiled in a remarkable spat with a Republican National Security consultant, Michael S. Smith. Gorka is flailing widely – tilting at enemies real and imagined.

I started digging and it didn’t take long to find out that Gorka is a fraud – a charlatan of the most brazen hue – a snake-oil salesman whose supposed Ph.D dissertation would have never passed muster in America or Britain and to put the cherry on the cake was approved by an fraudulent panel of examiners. The polar opposite of Lt. Gen H.R. McMasters’ celebrated dissertation awarded by UNC Chapel Hill.

Gorka is Hungarian-English. He gained an American passport in 2012. His nationalist parents fled to London from Budapest in 1956. His dissertation – Content and End-State-based Alteration in the Practice of Political Violence since the End of the Cold War: the difference between the terrorism of the Cold War and the terrorism of al Qaeda: the rise of the “transcendental terrorist, was apparently granted in 2007 by Corvinus University of Budapest.

The tract is long on Islamophobia and the unsubstantiated claims of the polemicist but short on theory, evidence or academic rigor. Corvinus is not an institution with a profile, so I looked: sadly it doesn’t even make the top 1,000 in the Times Higher Education World University Rankings.

Even Gorka’s attendance poses a mystery. When exactly was he a graduate student at the university? Did he take classes? Did he receive any training in Islam or Islamic studies? His CV notes that he left Hungary in 2004 to work for the U.S. Defense Department in Germany and then in 2008 relocated to the U.S. There is no evidence that he ever returned to live and study in Budapest.

The dissertation is online and includes the ‘evaluations’ of three referees who each presented a page of generalized comments – completely at odds with the detailed substantive and methodological evaluations that I’ve seen at every Ph.D defence I’ve been on over the last twenty years.

Two of the three referees did not even have a Ph.D. One was the U.S. Defense Attaché at the American Embassy in Budapest at the time, while the other was employed at the UK’s Defence Academy and just had a BA from Manchester University awarded in 1969.

This ‘neutral’ examiner had published a book in Hungary with Gorka three years previously. While graduate students sometimes collaborate with their advisors the independent external examiners must have no nepotistic ties with the candidate.

More important, a basic principle of assessing educational achievement is that your examiners have at least the degree level of the degree they are awarding. Undergraduates do not award Ph.Ds.

In Gorka’s case the only examiner who lists a doctorate was György Schöpflin – an extreme right wing Hungarian Member of the European Parliament who recently advocated putting pigs heads on a fence on the Hungarian border to keep out Muslims. I have been told that Schöpflin was a family friend. Both Schöpflin and Gorka’s father fled from Budapest to London in the 1950s and both moved in exile right-wing nationalist circles.

If that is true, we are left in sum with a degree that was awarded in absence – on the basis of a dissertation without basic political science methodological underpinnings – and apparently from an examining committee of two of Gorka’s diplomat friends, with only BA degrees; along with an old family friend, Schöpflin.

In sum, Gorka’s Ph.D is about as legitimate as if he had been awarded it by Trump University. Facts matter, but so does the gathering, synthesizing and creation of knowledge that is what we call ‘education.’ If you fake a Ph.D you are faking your credentials. He delivers provable untruths to the American public but is believed by many because he presents himself as an esteemed scholar of Islam. Gorka would never have got away with such chutzpah in the UK.


Experience and scholarship work in harness to produce answers to questions. When you have neither experience nor training you are likely to not merely get the answers wrong, but not even have an inkling of which questions to ask.

Clearly Gorka yearns to be taken seriously and he uses the "Dr." credentials in a way that no one who earned the degree would ever do. In his 2016 screed, Defeating Jihad: The Winnable War, he is Dr. Sebastian Gorka on the front cover.

Tacky or just an alternative fact? This is the man we have as a chief national security advisor to the President. That may not change, but lets give him the professional respect he deserves and stop calling him ‘Dr.’

Andrew Reynolds is a Professor of Political Science at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.Follow him on Twitter: @AndyReynoldsUNC

So Gorka earned his PhD the way Elvis earned his blackbelt?  LOFL!

Strange isn't it, how out of all the right-wing thinkers, the ones that attract the biggest following are crackpots (Marvin Olasky, Jordan Peterson), frauds (Gorka) or outright Nazis (Charles Murray).

Interesting if true, but then I'll have to vet the author of this "takedown" as well. After reading around the link you provided, I am skeptical that the person that wrote this opinion piece is even remotely unbiased. You may not respect his doctorate, but ostensibly he does have one. I do agree that very few (not a medical doctor would actually call themselves a doctor) would use this title, and as I mentioned I find it tacky. Though I have had professors that insisted on just that, so it's not unheard of. Not sure where you get the notion that Murray is a Nazi. Sam Harris certainly doesn't think so, nor do I. Just because he has examined some politically incorrect subjects is no reason to slander the man. Secondly, the only real Nazi's basically died out 75+ years, so hyperbole aside, what's your beef with Murray? As to the crackpots... that's an opinion, and it's pretty obvious your biases are showing. I would wager Peterson has published more cited publications than you have read in your lifetime, perhaps not, but I'll trust the prevailing opinion in lieu of yours.

Greetings!

Yeah, Shuddemell! I have had *many* professors refer to themselves as DR--quite explicitly, as a matter of fact. What's with the quaint insistence by others that *only* Medical Doctors are referred to as "DR."? I would say most academics I have seen refer to themselves as DR. History, Philosophy, Political Science, Anthropology, and on and on.

As one Philosophy Professor told me, "I studied for 12 years and more to earn my Ph.D. So I am quite entitled to be referred to as DR, thank you very much. Courts of Law, academic institutions and more fully recognize the merit and status of DR, and those that have put in the work to achieve such a title."

I'm not sure where these people get the idea that only medical experts are doctors--they aren't. There are different specialties, but the achievement of PH.D. is still DR for whoever has achieved that status, and rightfully so. For those to insist that only medical people are DR is ignorant and pathetic, and simply not true or accurate.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
The only places where I've really seen the "don't call people with non-clinical PhDs doctors is in clinical settings (hospitals, etc.), and the reason is typically said to be for avoiding confusing patients. This still has some weirdness in behavioral settings with psychologists vs. psychiatrists, but both generally go with "doctor" without too much issue. What I really found weird is when you have someone with a PhD in Nursing. They're a doctor, but not a doctor (but, as a NP, they are a medical provider)... Just weird.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 16, 2020, 04:02:27 PM
Greetings!

Terence Popp discusses Coup D'estate we are witnessing.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 16, 2020, 04:40:00 PM
We have Antifa members going up and executing Trump supporters in Portland by shooting them; In Austin, Texas, we have BLM thugs firing bullets into a car, attempting to murder the driver; We have BLM thugs shooting a young WHITE mother to death because she said "All Lives Matter"; In Seattle, Washington, we have BLM mobs take over parts of the city entirely, where murder, violence, and rape is celebrated; Trump supporters are pulled from their vehicles and stumped on by swarming groups of BLM thugs; Just this last weekend, a black woman and BLM member stole a Trump supporter's American flag, and then drew a knife, and threatened to kill everyone around her.

But some cuck bitch is worried about metaphors for "Putting their heads on pikes"?

I'm not sure who this is referring to. Are you referring to author Stella Morabito of the article that shuddemell cited?

She specifically mentions Antifa and BLM related violence which she also complains about, but she says that the language of leaders and mobs normalizes and promotes violence. So if leaders say that Trump supporters are an existential threat or that they should be lined up against the wall and shot - that encourages violence in followers, even if it isn't meant to be taken literally.

Use of metaphor like hanging or burning Trump figures, or talk of guillotines - it's part of the pattern of encouraging extremism and violence, even if no one is actually being killed by literal guillotines.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on November 16, 2020, 04:43:00 PM

Is he still calling himself "Doctor"?

While it is a bit pretentious, Gorka does have a doctorate in Political Science. Strictly speaking, he isn't wrong.

He's a "doctor" like Tom Parker was a "colonel":

Haaretz (https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/the-academic-fraud-of-trumps-terrorism-expert-1.5465216)

Quote
Stop Calling Him 'Dr.': The Academic Fraud of Sebastian Gorka, Trump’s Terrorism 'Expert'

The only formally qualified examiner for Gorka’s Ph.D. on a panel packed with personal friends was an extreme right-wing Hungarian MEP who recently advocated putting pigs heads on a fence on the Hungarian border to keep out Muslims

Early on a mustache-twirling villain emerged as the face of the Trump White House. With the mannerisms of a pompous English B-movie baddy, Sebastian Gorka is to Donald Trump what the Sheriff of Nottingham was to King John. The malevolent sidekick.

Dr. Gorka styles himself as the crusading academic. A Kissinger for our troubled times. The brilliant scholar of terrorism who has taught at elite colleges and published groundbreaking research. He often reminds the imbeciles of the press that as a man of great learning only he truly comprehends the threat of Muslims.

But experts have listened to Gorka’s advocacy of the Muslim ban, attacks on the media and sterling defence of Trump’s “well-oiled’ administration and wondered how could such a well trained academic make such baseless and ignorant claims about topics he purports to be an expert on? In March he became embroiled in a remarkable spat with a Republican National Security consultant, Michael S. Smith. Gorka is flailing widely – tilting at enemies real and imagined.

I started digging and it didn’t take long to find out that Gorka is a fraud – a charlatan of the most brazen hue – a snake-oil salesman whose supposed Ph.D dissertation would have never passed muster in America or Britain and to put the cherry on the cake was approved by an fraudulent panel of examiners. The polar opposite of Lt. Gen H.R. McMasters’ celebrated dissertation awarded by UNC Chapel Hill.

Gorka is Hungarian-English. He gained an American passport in 2012. His nationalist parents fled to London from Budapest in 1956. His dissertation – Content and End-State-based Alteration in the Practice of Political Violence since the End of the Cold War: the difference between the terrorism of the Cold War and the terrorism of al Qaeda: the rise of the “transcendental terrorist, was apparently granted in 2007 by Corvinus University of Budapest.

The tract is long on Islamophobia and the unsubstantiated claims of the polemicist but short on theory, evidence or academic rigor. Corvinus is not an institution with a profile, so I looked: sadly it doesn’t even make the top 1,000 in the Times Higher Education World University Rankings.

Even Gorka’s attendance poses a mystery. When exactly was he a graduate student at the university? Did he take classes? Did he receive any training in Islam or Islamic studies? His CV notes that he left Hungary in 2004 to work for the U.S. Defense Department in Germany and then in 2008 relocated to the U.S. There is no evidence that he ever returned to live and study in Budapest.

The dissertation is online and includes the ‘evaluations’ of three referees who each presented a page of generalized comments – completely at odds with the detailed substantive and methodological evaluations that I’ve seen at every Ph.D defence I’ve been on over the last twenty years.

Two of the three referees did not even have a Ph.D. One was the U.S. Defense Attaché at the American Embassy in Budapest at the time, while the other was employed at the UK’s Defence Academy and just had a BA from Manchester University awarded in 1969.

This ‘neutral’ examiner had published a book in Hungary with Gorka three years previously. While graduate students sometimes collaborate with their advisors the independent external examiners must have no nepotistic ties with the candidate.

More important, a basic principle of assessing educational achievement is that your examiners have at least the degree level of the degree they are awarding. Undergraduates do not award Ph.Ds.

In Gorka’s case the only examiner who lists a doctorate was György Schöpflin – an extreme right wing Hungarian Member of the European Parliament who recently advocated putting pigs heads on a fence on the Hungarian border to keep out Muslims. I have been told that Schöpflin was a family friend. Both Schöpflin and Gorka’s father fled from Budapest to London in the 1950s and both moved in exile right-wing nationalist circles.

If that is true, we are left in sum with a degree that was awarded in absence – on the basis of a dissertation without basic political science methodological underpinnings – and apparently from an examining committee of two of Gorka’s diplomat friends, with only BA degrees; along with an old family friend, Schöpflin.

In sum, Gorka’s Ph.D is about as legitimate as if he had been awarded it by Trump University. Facts matter, but so does the gathering, synthesizing and creation of knowledge that is what we call ‘education.’ If you fake a Ph.D you are faking your credentials. He delivers provable untruths to the American public but is believed by many because he presents himself as an esteemed scholar of Islam. Gorka would never have got away with such chutzpah in the UK.


Experience and scholarship work in harness to produce answers to questions. When you have neither experience nor training you are likely to not merely get the answers wrong, but not even have an inkling of which questions to ask.

Clearly Gorka yearns to be taken seriously and he uses the "Dr." credentials in a way that no one who earned the degree would ever do. In his 2016 screed, Defeating Jihad: The Winnable War, he is Dr. Sebastian Gorka on the front cover.

Tacky or just an alternative fact? This is the man we have as a chief national security advisor to the President. That may not change, but lets give him the professional respect he deserves and stop calling him ‘Dr.’

Andrew Reynolds is a Professor of Political Science at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.Follow him on Twitter: @AndyReynoldsUNC

So Gorka earned his PhD the way Elvis earned his blackbelt?  LOFL!

Strange isn't it, how out of all the right-wing thinkers, the ones that attract the biggest following are crackpots (Marvin Olasky, Jordan Peterson), frauds (Gorka) or outright Nazis (Charles Murray).

Interesting if true, but then I'll have to vet the author of this "takedown" as well. After reading around the link you provided, I am skeptical that the person that wrote this opinion piece is even remotely unbiased. You may not respect his doctorate, but ostensibly he does have one. I do agree that very few (not a medical doctor would actually call themselves a doctor) would use this title, and as I mentioned I find it tacky. Though I have had professors that insisted on just that, so it's not unheard of. Not sure where you get the notion that Murray is a Nazi. Sam Harris certainly doesn't think so, nor do I. Just because he has examined some politically incorrect subjects is no reason to slander the man. Secondly, the only real Nazi's basically died out 75+ years, so hyperbole aside, what's your beef with Murray? As to the crackpots... that's an opinion, and it's pretty obvious your biases are showing. I would wager Peterson has published more cited publications than you have read in your lifetime, perhaps not, but I'll trust the prevailing opinion in lieu of yours.

Greetings!

Yeah, Shuddemell! I have had *many* professors refer to themselves as DR--quite explicitly, as a matter of fact. What's with the quaint insistence by others that *only* Medical Doctors are referred to as "DR."? I would say most academics I have seen refer to themselves as DR. History, Philosophy, Political Science, Anthropology, and on and on.

As one Philosophy Professor told me, "I studied for 12 years and more to earn my Ph.D. So I am quite entitled to be referred to as DR, thank you very much. Courts of Law, academic institutions and more fully recognize the merit and status of DR, and those that have put in the work to achieve such a title."

I'm not sure where these people get the idea that only medical experts are doctors--they aren't. There are different specialties, but the achievement of PH.D. is still DR for whoever has achieved that status, and rightfully so. For those to insist that only medical people are DR is ignorant and pathetic, and simply not true or accurate.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
The only places where I've really seen the "don't call people with non-clinical PhDs doctors is in clinical settings (hospitals, etc.), and the reason is typically said to be for avoiding confusing patients. This still has some weirdness in behavioral settings with psychologists vs. psychiatrists, but both generally go with "doctor" without too much issue. What I really found weird is when you have someone with a PhD in Nursing. They're a doctor, but not a doctor (but, as a NP, they are a medical provider)... Just weird.

It is, and probably that's how it started and then kind of spread. Certainly the only place it would make a modicum of sense.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 16, 2020, 05:52:44 PM
Greetings!

Terence Popp discusses Coup D'estate we are witnessing.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


When Popp talks, I picture him as Roddy Piper. It doesn't hurt that the message is pretty much “Put on these glasses, or start eating that trash can.”
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 16, 2020, 07:25:52 PM
"Russian interference" was always "Russians put out some fake news bullshit to add chaos". It was never that they changed any election results or hacked something. And yes they put out more misinformation this year too. So? It never bothered me much. Misinformation is not that big a deal. The extremes of both political parties and bullshit groups like qanon put out so much misinformation it's hard to get worked up about more misinformation from a foreign nation.

So Richard Nixon wouldn't have had to resign if he'd just gotten Russians to break into the Democratic headquarters... I learn so much here!

"President-elect" is not an official term, at least according to Wikipedia. But to 80% of the US population--and 99% of the world--yes, he is.

And indeed, almost 80% of Americans think Biden won. (Hey, polls can be off, as in Florida, so maybe let's only say 75% as of 11/10 and remember there's a margin of error.)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll/nearly-80-of-americans-say-biden-won-white-house-ignoring-trumps-refusal-to-concede-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN27Q3ED

But president-elect does have some legal meaning; once the GSA recognizes the apparent winner as president-elect, they get funding and access for the transition effort. The current head of the GSA won't recognize Biden's victory but coincidentally she is looking for another job. Luckily, it's not like there's a health crisis or an economic crisis ravaging the country, so delaying the transition just to soothe Donald Trump's ego can't possibly have any bad effects on the country.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 16, 2020, 08:19:15 PM

Is he still calling himself "Doctor"?

While it is a bit pretentious, Gorka does have a doctorate in Political Science. Strictly speaking, he isn't wrong.

He's a "doctor" like Tom Parker was a "colonel":

Haaretz (https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/the-academic-fraud-of-trumps-terrorism-expert-1.5465216)

Quote
Stop Calling Him 'Dr.': The Academic Fraud of Sebastian Gorka, Trump’s Terrorism 'Expert'

The only formally qualified examiner for Gorka’s Ph.D. on a panel packed with personal friends was an extreme right-wing Hungarian MEP who recently advocated putting pigs heads on a fence on the Hungarian border to keep out Muslims

Early on a mustache-twirling villain emerged as the face of the Trump White House. With the mannerisms of a pompous English B-movie baddy, Sebastian Gorka is to Donald Trump what the Sheriff of Nottingham was to King John. The malevolent sidekick.

Dr. Gorka styles himself as the crusading academic. A Kissinger for our troubled times. The brilliant scholar of terrorism who has taught at elite colleges and published groundbreaking research. He often reminds the imbeciles of the press that as a man of great learning only he truly comprehends the threat of Muslims.

But experts have listened to Gorka’s advocacy of the Muslim ban, attacks on the media and sterling defence of Trump’s “well-oiled’ administration and wondered how could such a well trained academic make such baseless and ignorant claims about topics he purports to be an expert on? In March he became embroiled in a remarkable spat with a Republican National Security consultant, Michael S. Smith. Gorka is flailing widely – tilting at enemies real and imagined.

I started digging and it didn’t take long to find out that Gorka is a fraud – a charlatan of the most brazen hue – a snake-oil salesman whose supposed Ph.D dissertation would have never passed muster in America or Britain and to put the cherry on the cake was approved by an fraudulent panel of examiners. The polar opposite of Lt. Gen H.R. McMasters’ celebrated dissertation awarded by UNC Chapel Hill.

Gorka is Hungarian-English. He gained an American passport in 2012. His nationalist parents fled to London from Budapest in 1956. His dissertation – Content and End-State-based Alteration in the Practice of Political Violence since the End of the Cold War: the difference between the terrorism of the Cold War and the terrorism of al Qaeda: the rise of the “transcendental terrorist, was apparently granted in 2007 by Corvinus University of Budapest.

The tract is long on Islamophobia and the unsubstantiated claims of the polemicist but short on theory, evidence or academic rigor. Corvinus is not an institution with a profile, so I looked: sadly it doesn’t even make the top 1,000 in the Times Higher Education World University Rankings.

Even Gorka’s attendance poses a mystery. When exactly was he a graduate student at the university? Did he take classes? Did he receive any training in Islam or Islamic studies? His CV notes that he left Hungary in 2004 to work for the U.S. Defense Department in Germany and then in 2008 relocated to the U.S. There is no evidence that he ever returned to live and study in Budapest.

The dissertation is online and includes the ‘evaluations’ of three referees who each presented a page of generalized comments – completely at odds with the detailed substantive and methodological evaluations that I’ve seen at every Ph.D defence I’ve been on over the last twenty years.

Two of the three referees did not even have a Ph.D. One was the U.S. Defense Attaché at the American Embassy in Budapest at the time, while the other was employed at the UK’s Defence Academy and just had a BA from Manchester University awarded in 1969.

This ‘neutral’ examiner had published a book in Hungary with Gorka three years previously. While graduate students sometimes collaborate with their advisors the independent external examiners must have no nepotistic ties with the candidate.

More important, a basic principle of assessing educational achievement is that your examiners have at least the degree level of the degree they are awarding. Undergraduates do not award Ph.Ds.

In Gorka’s case the only examiner who lists a doctorate was György Schöpflin – an extreme right wing Hungarian Member of the European Parliament who recently advocated putting pigs heads on a fence on the Hungarian border to keep out Muslims. I have been told that Schöpflin was a family friend. Both Schöpflin and Gorka’s father fled from Budapest to London in the 1950s and both moved in exile right-wing nationalist circles.

If that is true, we are left in sum with a degree that was awarded in absence – on the basis of a dissertation without basic political science methodological underpinnings – and apparently from an examining committee of two of Gorka’s diplomat friends, with only BA degrees; along with an old family friend, Schöpflin.

In sum, Gorka’s Ph.D is about as legitimate as if he had been awarded it by Trump University. Facts matter, but so does the gathering, synthesizing and creation of knowledge that is what we call ‘education.’ If you fake a Ph.D you are faking your credentials. He delivers provable untruths to the American public but is believed by many because he presents himself as an esteemed scholar of Islam. Gorka would never have got away with such chutzpah in the UK.


Experience and scholarship work in harness to produce answers to questions. When you have neither experience nor training you are likely to not merely get the answers wrong, but not even have an inkling of which questions to ask.

Clearly Gorka yearns to be taken seriously and he uses the "Dr." credentials in a way that no one who earned the degree would ever do. In his 2016 screed, Defeating Jihad: The Winnable War, he is Dr. Sebastian Gorka on the front cover.

Tacky or just an alternative fact? This is the man we have as a chief national security advisor to the President. That may not change, but lets give him the professional respect he deserves and stop calling him ‘Dr.’

Andrew Reynolds is a Professor of Political Science at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.Follow him on Twitter: @AndyReynoldsUNC

So Gorka earned his PhD the way Elvis earned his blackbelt?  LOFL!

Strange isn't it, how out of all the right-wing thinkers, the ones that attract the biggest following are crackpots (Marvin Olasky, Jordan Peterson), frauds (Gorka) or outright Nazis (Charles Murray).

Interesting if true, but then I'll have to vet the author of this "takedown" as well. After reading around the link you provided, I am skeptical that the person that wrote this opinion piece is even remotely unbiased. You may not respect his doctorate, but ostensibly he does have one. I do agree that very few (not a medical doctor would actually call themselves a doctor) would use this title, and as I mentioned I find it tacky. Though I have had professors that insisted on just that, so it's not unheard of. Not sure where you get the notion that Murray is a Nazi. Sam Harris certainly doesn't think so, nor do I. Just because he has examined some politically incorrect subjects is no reason to slander the man. Secondly, the only real Nazi's basically died out 75+ years, so hyperbole aside, what's your beef with Murray? As to the crackpots... that's an opinion, and it's pretty obvious your biases are showing. I would wager Peterson has published more cited publications than you have read in your lifetime, perhaps not, but I'll trust the prevailing opinion in lieu of yours.

Greetings!

Yeah, Shuddemell! I have had *many* professors refer to themselves as DR--quite explicitly, as a matter of fact. What's with the quaint insistence by others that *only* Medical Doctors are referred to as "DR."? I would say most academics I have seen refer to themselves as DR. History, Philosophy, Political Science, Anthropology, and on and on.

As one Philosophy Professor told me, "I studied for 12 years and more to earn my Ph.D. So I am quite entitled to be referred to as DR, thank you very much. Courts of Law, academic institutions and more fully recognize the merit and status of DR, and those that have put in the work to achieve such a title."

I'm not sure where these people get the idea that only medical experts are doctors--they aren't. There are different specialties, but the achievement of PH.D. is still DR for whoever has achieved that status, and rightfully so. For those to insist that only medical people are DR is ignorant and pathetic, and simply not true or accurate.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
The only places where I've really seen the "don't call people with non-clinical PhDs doctors is in clinical settings (hospitals, etc.), and the reason is typically said to be for avoiding confusing patients. This still has some weirdness in behavioral settings with psychologists vs. psychiatrists, but both generally go with "doctor" without too much issue. What I really found weird is when you have someone with a PhD in Nursing. They're a doctor, but not a doctor (but, as a NP, they are a medical provider)... Just weird.

I technically have a doctorate. My diploma says Doctorate of Jurisprudence. But if anyone ever calls me Dr., it's as a joke.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 16, 2020, 08:29:23 PM
Can any of you doctors figure out how not to quote 6 posts to add a sentence of commentary?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 16, 2020, 08:37:34 PM
Can any of you doctors figure out how not to quote 6 posts to add a sentence of commentary?
Can any of you doctors figure out how not to quote 6 posts to add a sentence of commentary?
Can any of you doctors figure out how not to quote 6 posts to add a sentence of commentary?
Can any of you doctors figure out how not to quote 6 posts to add a sentence of commentary?
Can any of you doctors figure out how not to quote 6 posts to add a sentence of commentary?
Can any of you doctors figure out how not to quote 6 posts to add a sentence of commentary?
Can any of you doctors figure out how not to quote 6 posts to add a sentence of commentary?
Can any of you doctors figure out how not to quote 6 posts to add a sentence of commentary?
Can any of you doctors figure out how not to quote 6 posts to add a sentence of commentary?
Can any of you doctors figure out how not to quote 6 posts to add a sentence of commentary?
No.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 16, 2020, 08:56:18 PM
Oh fuck, I’m on the opposite side of an argument from Elfdart using fap emojis - that’s the universe telling you there’s no reason to doubt!

The counter-arguers:

Lincoln Project crushees

Fact-checking analysts who believe the phrase “head on a pike” is not a metaphor

Assorted leftists more gleeful than any time since before they learned what “catfishing” was

Elfdart, more gleeful than any time since before he learned he could no longer catfish them

Yes, I think with opposition like this I need to reconsider RIGHT NOW before all the facts that could be, are put before a court

It seems to me that different people have different positions that fall along a spectrum, rather than just us-vs-them. Specifically about fraud, at one extreme, RandyB believes that there were over 40 million fraudulent votes cast for Biden. I'm not sure who is the other extreme on this forum - but there are certainly some liberals in general who now reflexively dismiss claims of fraud without critical thought -- just as there are some conservatives who reflexively believe claims of fraud without critical thought.

-

Also, I think I'm the one being called out over the "head on a pike". For the record, I agree that it was metaphorical, but I don't think that makes it acceptable. Specifically, I was responding to this article posted by shuddemell that calls out liberals for making metaphorical death threats:

https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/26/7-open-leftist-threats-that-political-terror-is-coming-to-america-whether-trump-wins-or-not/

I agreed with the article that the metaphorical death threats by liberals was wrong. (ref) (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/are-you-ready-to-be-blacklisted-by-the-tolerant-fascists/msg1152446/#msg1152446)

Yes, and I'm stating that I think only people who have difficulty with context would say one of these things is like the other:

"This specific group will be first against the wall and shot in the revolution"

"That guy's head should be on a pike"

Only one of these is recognized idiom (https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-mean-if-someones-head-is-on-a-pike?share=1).  You can leftsplain this all you want, but no one here is a child unfamiliar with language usage.  We've heard the phrase for decades and know what it means.  So either you don't know (ignorant/unable to discern context) or you know but don't care.  But those two being rhetorically equivalent is not a valid option.

If idiom usage is bad, only one side is disingenuously punished for it by gatekeepers friendly to the other - again, this speaks volumes

(https://i.imgur.com/harIobV.png)
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/831483401467265024 (https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/831483401467265024)

(https://i.imgur.com/09Xk25A.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 16, 2020, 08:57:07 PM
No.

Great, now the architect-engineers are getting in on it too!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 16, 2020, 09:35:37 PM
Today's Info dump:
===================
https://twitter.com/TimMurtaugh/status/1328169116230971397
https://twitter.com/TimMurtaugh/status/1328353599865442304
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1328342166007992323
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1328354011913699328
https://twitter.com/KMCRadio/status/1328312042030309376
https://www.manilatimes.net/2016/06/21/opinion/columnists/never-again-to-smartmatic/269238/
https://twitter.com/RepMattGaetz/status/1328393545913430020

Twitter suspended an account - no shit:
"1) here is the K R A K E N:
[THREAD]
Do -minion controls 70 Million votes,
Do -minion machines are used in 28 States
including:
– Pennsylvania
– Georgia
– Michigan
– Wisconsin
2) Do -minion machines are used also in:
– Arizona
– Nevada

and in:
– Colorado
– Minnesota
– Ohio

who really won these States?
5) wherever Do -minion machines are used,
you can be certain the SCAM has been rampant

I estimate a SCAM of 35 MILLION votes – Nationwide"
— Greg Rubini (@GregRubini) November 15, 2020

If this above information is true... then - OUCH! If a troll - it's still interesting (as far as twitter/reddit trolling).
And, of course, there's this: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-imposing-certain-sanctions-event-foreign-interference-united-states-election/
===================
Note: Of course, I don't believe everything I read nor everything I hear of. But posting information to further conversation and letting people research and make up their own minds is what I'm doing. When I find something interesting I post it. Perhaps Clinton/Biden vote differentials are meant to be looked at as a % of registered and confirmed votes? Or a ratio? Something to followup on for sure. Not disputing anyone here, just posting...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 16, 2020, 10:04:12 PM
That is quite the info dump and thank you for it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 17, 2020, 12:31:56 AM
Letter from the ranking member of the House Subcommittee of Government Operations to the Administrator of the General Services Administration, defining how the President-Elect is determined.
https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Letter-to-GSA-re-Transition-final-11.13.20-1.pdf

Quote from: see above
November 13, 2020

The Honorable Emily Murphy
Administrator
General Services Administration
1800 F St. N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20405

Dear Administrator Murphy:

On November 9, 2020, Democratic House Members sent you a letter that misrepresented the facts surrounding your responsibilities under the Presidential Transition Act of 1963. I write to correct the record.

Under the Act, you, as administrator of the General Services Administration (GSA), have the authority to provide government-funded transition assistance to the President-Elect and the Vice-President-Elect. However, this assistance can only occur after there are “apparent successful candidates for the office of the President and Vice President, respectively, as ascertained by the Administrator [you].”

There are enough state contests in question, such that there is not yet an apparent President or Vice-President-Elect. Precedent and legislative history present three situations where there may be an un-apparent President-Elect:
  • The drafters of the Act anticipated three electoral situations where there would be an unapparent President-Elect: (1) a tie, (2) a plurality winner, or (3) the presence of extensive voter fraud or intimidation. The third being applicable to 2020 since the Trump campaign has raised questions and filed legal challenges in several states;
  • The drafters concluded that “if there is any doubt in the Administrator’s mind” the Administrator does not have to release transition assistance. Since states have not yet certified an electoral winner and some states are still tabulating legal ballots, there remains doubt as to the winner; and
  • The precedent set by the Clinton Administration in the contested 2000 election is that to ascertain an apparent President-Elect there would need to be a concession—which has not yet occurred in 2020—or no more legitimate continuing legal challenges—which has not yet occurred in 2020.
According to Congressional intent and past precedent set by President Clinton, as of today, there is no apparent President-Elect.

A GSA spokesman recently stated that “the GSA Administrator ascertains the apparent successful candidate once a winner is clear based on the process laid out in the Constitution.” I strongly encourage you to do just that: follow the Constitution and past precedent, not the media, when making your determination of the President-Elect. This democracy relies on a rule of law and the law must be followed.

Sincerely,
Jody Hice
Ranking Member
Subcommittee on Government Operations
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 17, 2020, 03:11:26 AM
5) wherever Do -minion machines are used,
you can be certain the SCAM has been rampant

I estimate a SCAM of 35 MILLION votes – Nationwide"
— Greg Rubini (@GregRubini) November 15, 2020

If this above information is true... then - OUCH! If a troll - it's still interesting
Note: Of course, I don't believe everything I read nor everything I hear of. But posting information to further conversation and letting people research and make up their own minds is what I'm doing. When I find something interesting I post it. Perhaps Clinton/Biden vote differentials are meant to be looked at as a % of registered and confirmed votes? Or a ratio? Something to followup on for sure. Not disputing anyone here, just posting...

But there's nothing there about how he came to that conclusion, so I don't see how I would evaluate this. Regarding information: I found it interesting to browse through the VerifiedVoting maps, which track which machines are used in which counties.

https://verifiedvoting.org/verifier/#mode/navigate/map/ppEquip/mapType/normal/year/2020

The interesting thing is that you can use the Search tab to look through at exactly where ES&S systems are used, or Dominion systems. One thing that shocked me in this was how widespread Internet voting is now. I had read previously about its use in Delaware and West Virginia, but there are a number of other states that are apparently allowing it in some cases: North Dakota, Missouri, Alabama, North Carolina, and South Carolina. I've previously written about opposing electronic-only (aka DRE) voting machines - but Internet voting is even worse.

I don't have a clear opinion on ES&S versus Dominion at this point. Prior to this election, it seemed to me that they were both evaluated similarly. There also doesn't seem to be a partisan divide between the two leading vendors - plenty of Democratic and Republican states have bought into both.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 17, 2020, 07:42:59 AM
  Best long term prognosis at this point for the country is for both those senate seats in Georgia to go to Democrats.   That should get things moving right along towards to the best outcome we will all get from the political division.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 17, 2020, 08:17:09 AM
What the fuck (https://spectator.org/maria-bartiromo-sidney-powell-dominion/).

Wow. Just... wow. I cannot wait to see how the left tries to spin this. There is no sane, rational reason for us to use a goddamn election system with ties to fucking Venezuela of all places.

Stolen elections. That's what we get. Hope everyone bought enough ammo.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on November 17, 2020, 08:40:20 AM
Letter from the ranking member of the House Subcommittee of Government Operations to the Administrator of the General Services Administration, defining how the President-Elect is determined.
https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Letter-to-GSA-re-Transition-final-11.13.20-1.pdf

Quote from: see above
November 13, 2020

The Honorable Emily Murphy
Administrator
General Services Administration
1800 F St. N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20405

Dear Administrator Murphy:

On November 9, 2020, Democratic House Members sent you a letter that misrepresented the facts surrounding your responsibilities under the Presidential Transition Act of 1963. I write to correct the record.

Under the Act, you, as administrator of the General Services Administration (GSA), have the authority to provide government-funded transition assistance to the President-Elect and the Vice-President-Elect. However, this assistance can only occur after there are “apparent successful candidates for the office of the President and Vice President, respectively, as ascertained by the Administrator [you].”

There are enough state contests in question, such that there is not yet an apparent President or Vice-President-Elect. Precedent and legislative history present three situations where there may be an un-apparent President-Elect:
  • The drafters of the Act anticipated three electoral situations where there would be an unapparent President-Elect: (1) a tie, (2) a plurality winner, or (3) the presence of extensive voter fraud or intimidation. The third being applicable to 2020 since the Trump campaign has raised questions and filed legal challenges in several states;
  • The drafters concluded that “if there is any doubt in the Administrator’s mind” the Administrator does not have to release transition assistance. Since states have not yet certified an electoral winner and some states are still tabulating legal ballots, there remains doubt as to the winner; and
  • The precedent set by the Clinton Administration in the contested 2000 election is that to ascertain an apparent President-Elect there would need to be a concession—which has not yet occurred in 2020—or no more legitimate continuing legal challenges—which has not yet occurred in 2020.
According to Congressional intent and past precedent set by President Clinton, as of today, there is no apparent President-Elect.

A GSA spokesman recently stated that “the GSA Administrator ascertains the apparent successful candidate once a winner is clear based on the process laid out in the Constitution.” I strongly encourage you to do just that: follow the Constitution and past precedent, not the media, when making your determination of the President-Elect. This democracy relies on a rule of law and the law must be followed.

Sincerely,
Jody Hice
Ranking Member
Subcommittee on Government Operations

In other words, one of Cheeto Mussolini's lackeys wrote a letter that rivals Mommie Dearest when it comes to unintentional comedy -with the bolded part being the "Tina! Bring me the axe!" scene.



Quote
(3) the presence of extensive voter fraud or intimidation. The third being applicable to 2020 since the Trump campaign has raised questions and filed legal challenges in several states;

There is no "extensive voter fraud" and what little has been uncovered has mostly been MAGA morons trying to cheat at the polls. The fact that the white supremacist Oompa-Loompa's personal attorney* has made all kinds of ridiculous claims doesn't make them true.

*You know, this guy:

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/10/23/16/34756860-8872697-image-m-4_1603465693469.jpg)

 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 17, 2020, 09:42:28 AM
There is no "extensive voter fraud" and what little has been uncovered has mostly been MAGA morons trying to cheat at the polls. The fact that the white supremacist Oompa-Loompa's personal attorney* has made all kinds of ridiculous claims doesn't make them true.
Determining that is the job of the courts, not GSA administrators or highly partisan internet posters who think movie clips are evidence.

And it would be a strange world where a "white supremacist" does so well among black and hispanic voters, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 17, 2020, 09:46:39 AM
What the fuck (https://spectator.org/maria-bartiromo-sidney-powell-dominion/).

Wow. Just... wow. I cannot wait to see how the left tries to spin this. There is no sane, rational reason for us to use a goddamn election system with ties to fucking Venezuela of all places.

Stolen elections. That's what we get. Hope everyone bought enough ammo.

Not at all surprised. I find it quite ironic though, that a CIA funded company that was used to create a process to rig elections, was also the same company that designed the polling systems used by Dominion. There is something to this evidently. Sharks video from the other day of the affidavit from the poll worker specifically mentions she worked for Dominion and had received specific instructions to  boost the Democrat vote and supress the Republican vote. I'm going to look into this further.

Sharks Video from the other day featuring Melissa Carone, who filed an affidavit regarding rigged voting processes in Detroit
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/798796260

Rudy Guliani seems to be batting about a hundred in 2020. I was quite surprised to Independently and so easily verify that the Biden family has been paid off by the Red Chinese, in advance. His problem it would seem, is he keeps hitching himself to other totally dysfunctional and incompetent leaders that create far more problems than they solve.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on November 17, 2020, 10:50:01 AM
What the fuck (https://spectator.org/maria-bartiromo-sidney-powell-dominion/).

Wow. Just... wow. I cannot wait to see how the left tries to spin this. There is no sane, rational reason for us to use a goddamn election system with ties to fucking Venezuela of all places.

Stolen elections. That's what we get. Hope everyone bought enough ammo.

Where to begin? You cite The American Spectator, a publication best known for hiring cranks to spread rumors of the Clinton Body Count (which for some reason, never included the names of people the Clintons did kill off -like Iraqi children), and  for using its status as a "charity" to fund the high-on-the-hog lifestyle of its editor-in-chief. (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/11/the-life-and-death-of-the-american-spectator/302343/)

Quote
Using the proceeds from the sale of his house in Bloomington, The American Spectator Educational Foundation paid for a significant portion of the new house: about $200,000. The foundation also bought a big black Mercedes for Tyrrell's use; gave him a generous entertainment budget and paid for a membership in the Cosmos Club, on Embassy Row; and continued to pay for his trips to New York and London.

In any event, it's hard to take seriously an article that refers to the late Hugo Chavez as a "dictator" when he was legitimately elected and made it a point not to crush his enemies -even after they tried at least one putsch against him. But this is the crux of the matter: many right-wingers simply do not accept election results when they lose. When Bill Clinton was elected, the Looney Tunes right began forming militias, flying the flag upside down, and finally set off a bomb in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people. When Obama, like Clinton, won back-to-back landslides the nutty Right made up the racist lie that he wasn't really the President because he wasn't an American. And now a bunch of fuckwits who realize the end is near for their white supremacist game show-host demi-god, think buying weapons, starting brawls and crashing motor vehicles into pedestrians will salve the welts on their asses from the last election.

Here's a hint:

Hanns Johst, the Nazi playwright had the hero in his play Schlageter utter the infamous line: "When I hear the word 'culture' ..., I release the safety on my Browning!"

So if your candidate loses and your first instinct is to talk about getting a gun, then you are a fascist.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 17, 2020, 10:53:40 AM
What the fuck (https://spectator.org/maria-bartiromo-sidney-powell-dominion/).

Wow. Just... wow. I cannot wait to see how the left tries to spin this. There is no sane, rational reason for us to use a goddamn election system with ties to fucking Venezuela of all places.

Stolen elections. That's what we get. Hope everyone bought enough ammo.

Where to begin? You cite The American Spectator, a publication best known for hiring cranks to spread rumors of the Clinton Body Count (which for some reason, never included the names of people the Clintons did kill off -like Iraqi children), and  for using its status as a "charity" to fund the high-on-the-hog lifestyle of its editor-in-chief. (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/11/the-life-and-death-of-the-american-spectator/302343/)

Quote
Using the proceeds from the sale of his house in Bloomington, The American Spectator Educational Foundation paid for a significant portion of the new house: about $200,000. The foundation also bought a big black Mercedes for Tyrrell's use; gave him a generous entertainment budget and paid for a membership in the Cosmos Club, on Embassy Row; and continued to pay for his trips to New York and London.

In any event, it's hard to take seriously an article that refers to the late Hugo Chavez as a "dictator" when he was legitimately elected and made it a point not to crush his enemies -even after they tried at least one putsch against him. But this is the crux of the matter: many right-wingers simply do not accept election results when they lose. When Bill Clinton was elected, the Looney Tunes right began forming militias, flying the flag upside down, and finally set off a bomb in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people. When Obama, like Clinton, won back-to-back landslides the nutty Right made up the racist lie that he wasn't really the President because he wasn't an American. And now a bunch of fuckwits who realize the end is near for their white supremacist game show-host demi-god, think buying weapons, starting brawls and crashing motor vehicles into pedestrians will salve the welts on their asses from the last election.

Here's a hint:

Hanns Johst, the Nazi playwright had the hero in his play Schlageter utter the infamous line: "When I hear the word 'culture' ..., I release the safety on my Browning!"

So if your candidate loses and your first instinct is to talk about getting a gun, then you are a fascist.
Lulz. Well, you and yours have spent four years:

> calling anyone to the right of Stalin a 'fascist'
> referring to anyone who even vaguely supports Trump a 'fascist'
> when you're not calling them racists, bigots, misogynists, etc.

So I will take your disdain and wear it like a badge of honor, and dare you to do something about it, bitch. Because neither I, nor 70 million other 'fascists', aren't going away just because you say so.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 17, 2020, 11:21:45 AM
In any event, it's hard to take seriously an article that refers to the late Hugo Chavez as a "dictator" when he was legitimately elected and made it a point not to crush his enemies -even after they tried at least one putsch against him.
That's not a very good argument. Hitler, of all people, rose to power in a legitimate election. Plenty of dictators use democratic means to acquire power; the defining characteristic is how they change rules or use extralegal means to ensure they stay in power. And Chavez not only changed the Constitution and packed the courts to maintain his hold, he even started his career as part of a failed military coup. Venezuela never became fully authoritarian under his rule, but it was on the border.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 17, 2020, 11:31:44 AM

In any event, it's hard to take seriously an article that refers to the late Hugo Chavez as a "dictator" when he was legitimately elected and made it a point not to crush his enemies -even after they tried at least one putsch against him. But this is the crux of the matter: many right-wingers simply do not accept election results when they lose. When Bill Clinton was elected, the Looney Tunes right began forming militias, flying the flag upside down, and finally set off a bomb in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people. When Obama, like Clinton, won back-to-back landslides the nutty Right made up the racist lie that he wasn't really the President because he wasn't an American. And now a bunch of fuckwits who realize the end is near for their white supremacist game show-host demi-god, think buying weapons, starting brawls and crashing motor vehicles into pedestrians will salve the welts on their asses from the last election.

Well, Nicholas Maduro is a Dictator, and one of the worst. Typical Old World 'Strongman". He was legitimately elected using voting machines designed by a CIA backed company to finagle the vote. And let's just take a close look at those national elections in Venezuela, shall we?

From a Quartz article from May 21st, 2018

To no one’s surprise, incumbent Nicolás Maduro won Venezuela’s presidential election yesterday. This gives him another six years in power, amid devastating hyperinflation, food and medicine shortages, charges of corruption, and an all-round broken economy. The election was the latest move by Maduro, 55, to consolidate power in the face of increasing opposition, which have included fatal protests. The country’s main opposition coalition called for a boycott of the vote, suspecting that it would be manipulated. The effect of the boycott can be seen in turnout figures, which the electoral commission—staffed with Maduro loyalists—put at 46%.

Even if these numbers were inflated, as the opposition claims, it would be the lowest turnout for a presidential election going back to 1958, when a military dictatorship ended in Venezuela. Historically, Venezuelans have been enthusiastic voters. In the four presidential elections between 1958 and 1973, turnout exceed 90%. Since then, it’s regularly been over 80%. It was 80% at the previous presidential election, in 2013, when Maduro succeeded Hugo Chávez in a close-run vote that he won by a margin of less than two percentage points.
(Notice the razor thin margin for this election... What do you suppose are the actual odds that so many votes are this close?...)

Before the election, Colombian president Juan Manuel Santos said Colombians were being given Venezuelan IDs as part of a plan to transport them over the border to vote for Maduro. Santos said he wouldn’t recognize the outcome of the election. The US is considering sanctions against Venezuela’s oil sector, the nation’s main source of income, even though its already reeling and output is falling.

Last year, Maduro held a controversial election to form a constituent assembly, stacked with allies, that was charged with rewriting Venezuela’s constitution and, in practice, overriding the opposition-led National Assembly. Ahead of this latest presidential election, key opposition leaders were barred, in exile, or under house arrest. Last night, a triumphant Maduro happily told a crowd that “the revolution is here to stay!”


Whenever your President has barred members of the opposition from having an opportunity to be elected, forced them into exile (...becuase they are afraid of being assassinated), or otherwise placed them under house arrest  you can be 100% certain said President is a De Facto Banana Republic Dictator. Nicholas Maduro made his business fortune from Drug Trafficking, and there is an oustanding arrest warrant for him, and fifteen million dollar bounty for his capture on his head.

From a Bloomberg Article from march 26th;
The U.S. indicted Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro for drug trafficking on Thursday, offering a $15 million reward for information leading to his arrest, as the Trump administration ramps up pressure on an adversary it has sought to push aside. The U.S. also indicted 14 key Maduro associates, including former Vice President Diosdado Cabello, offering $10 million for information leading to their arrests. Charges were filed against the country’s defense minister, chief justice, and superintendent of cryptocurrency.

“The Maduro regime is awash in corruption and criminality,” Attorney General William Barr said at a news conference in Washington, held remotely because of the coronavirus. “While the Venezuelan people suffer, this cabal lines their pockets with drug money and the proceeds of corruption.”

The charges allege a conspiracy involving the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, a terrorist group that Barr said was determined to “flood the U.S. with cocaine.” He said that Maduro’s regime gives the FARC, as the group is known, authority to fly drug-filled planes over Venezuelan airspace and safely manufacture cocaine on its territory.


Some $2 billion worth of cocaine, about a quarter of what was produced in Colombia last year, passed through Venezuela before making its way to other countries, according to Jeremy McDermott, co-founder of Insight Crime, a research group that studies organized crime. He called it a fairly typical year for the traffic.

There is your hero, Elfdart, right there.

From ABC news back in September

GENEVA -- Independent experts for the U.N.’s top human rights body accused the government of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro on Wednesday of crimes against humanity, highlighting grisly cases of torture and killings allegedly carried out by security forces who used techniques like electric shocks, genital mutilation and asphyxiation.

In a scathing, in-depth report commissioned by theHuman Rights Council, the experts said the people responsible for extrajudicial executions, enforced disappearances, arbitrary detentions and other crimes must be held to account to provide justice for untold thousands of victims and to ensure such crimes don't happen again.

The findings of the report are likely to ratchet up pressure on Maduro's government, which has overseen a country in tatters with runaway inflation, a violent crackdown and an exodus of millions of Venezuelans who have fled to neighboring countries to escape the turmoil since he took power in 2013.

Venezuelan Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza lashed out saying the report written by an alleged fact-finding mission was actually led by a group of nations set on attacking Venezuela.

“This report plagued by falsehoods was drawn up from afar without relying on rigorous methodology by a phantom mission directed against Venezuela by governments subordinate to Washington,” Arreaza said on Twitter.

The experts say they delved into nearly 3,000 cases, looked at more than 5,000 killings and concluded that Maduro and his defense and interior ministers were aware of the crimes committed by Venezuelan security forces and intelligence agencies.

They further alleged that high-level authorities had both power and oversight over the forces and agencies, making the top officials responsible. Venezuelan authorities were not immediately available for comment.

 
In the last Venezuela election, the opposition Boycotted the election. Only 46% of the eligible voters showed up to vote. I wonder how many of them showed up because they were afraid not to.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 17, 2020, 11:37:05 AM
That's not a very good argument. Hitler, of all people, rose to power in a legitimate election. Plenty of dictators use democratic means to acquire power; the defining characteristic is how they change rules or use extralegal means to ensure they stay in power. And Chavez not only changed the Constitution and packed the courts to maintain his hold, he even started his career as part of a failed military coup. Venezuela never became fully authoritarian under his rule, but it was on the border.
Point well made, Pat, but I have to wonder what would actually constitute 'authoritarian' rule in your opinion then. Because it sure wasn't like Chavez was sharing power with anyone outside his little coterie.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 17, 2020, 01:16:31 PM
Point well made, Pat, but I have to wonder what would actually constitute 'authoritarian' rule in your opinion then. Because it sure wasn't like Chavez was sharing power with anyone outside his little coterie.
Chavez was a populist, who retained wide support because of his charisma and public works. So while he did increase his power, suppressed the judiciary, censored his opponents, restricted human rights, and effectively made himself president for life (bye bye term limits), he never had to blatantly seize power to the same degree as less popular leaders (like his successor, Maduro), so elections were fair (he accepted at least one major loss). Human Rights Watch and Freedom House documented this quite well.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 17, 2020, 01:16:45 PM

Nice little narrative there, but...is your implication that Righties have better respect for Reason? Certainly, many libertarians tend to fetishize Reason, but most on the Right aren't really libertarian, at least ideologically.

You must have missed the closer of my follow up post responding to the last question I received about the post you quoted.

The quoted post is the philosophical underpinnings of broad movements. Specific attitudes of right vs left are discussed about two posts above yours.  From a purely analytical position, I make no moral judgement about the correctness of the Counter Enlightenment movement, all the way up to Postmodernism. I disagree with them, fundamentally, and see myself as more in the Enlightenment 'branch' of modern philosophy, if you will, but I accept, among other things, that Kant's Critique of Pure Reason makes a valid argument, though I would suggest that Descartes's Demon makes an interesting counter-argument, though I don't believe it was intended as such.   

So when you ask if "The Right" has a better respect for Reason, not only are you asking about the wrong side of the political divide (you should be asking the obverse question: Do I believe the Left doesn't respect Reason?), to answer it I have to ask: Do You mean the European Traditionalist Right, the American Individualist Right, or the Counter-Enlightenment Nationalist Socialist Right?

In general I believe most people don't actually concern themselves with the foundations and intellectual underpinnings of their political beliefs, and left to their own devices most people default to 'magical thinking' over rational or, alternatively, counter-Enlightenment Irrationalist Thinking, so asking about 'most people' is a fools errand' by any metric.


Of course, we can also make the argument that none of this is particularly new.  Nietzche is rehashing the tired old arguments of Heracletius (I think... this was someone elses thesis, and I might have forgotten which discredited ancient greek philosopher they tied him too...), the Post-moderists are largely relying on argument techniques demonstrated by teh Sophists back in the day. Revolutionary movements (such as Socialism) have always bowlderized language until they are in power, or alternatively destroyed by those in power, at which point the near first order of business is always to re-assert the propriety of language, as documented by Thucydides.

We've been here before, and no matter what happens between now and January 20, and beyond, we will be here again. The big question is just how bloody it will get in the meantime.  I, for one, hope that our inevitable dark age... call it the Atomic Age Collapse... doesn't happen during my lifetime.  I'd like to think we have a few more centuries, but if I could tell the future I wouldn't be posting here, I'd be playing the lotto and living it up on some tropical beach with dancing girls.

Thanks for bringing philosophical depth to the conversation - as well as tinges of humor interspersed throughout.

I think my main objection to your narrative is that it seems too dualistic, too simplistic. This is not to say that I think you are simplistic--clearly, you are not--but that there are many other factors involved, many roots that have grown the tree that we currently experience (or streams that feed the river), and you're singling out a specific root or stream (whichever metaphor you prefer), which leads to ignoring other roots and streams.

For instance, a major aspect of American politics centers around the question of American empire and the nature and use of power, and how that is spun. Some feel that America should be the dominant force in global politics, and should wield their military might to keep the order (while also protecting corporate interests), while others feel that we shouldn't be as involved in other nations and be more focused on domestic concerns and/or peace efforts globally. This isn't a right-left split, as progressives and libertarians come close to agreement on the latter, and are in opposition to the establishment narrative, whether left-leaning or right-leaning.

There's also the nature of identity - are we first and foremost Americans, or are we members of a global community? Are we defined by our nation (or our gender, sexuality, ethnicity, etc), or are we individuals? And as individuals, does our sphere of concern extend beyond ourselves and to what degree? Does it only extend to our ethnicity, our sub-culture, our political party, our nation, or the world?

Another relevant stream is the twin ideals of liberty and equality, and how that has played out in American history. In a very crude way, conservatism focused more on liberty, leftism more on equality. The American experiment has a lot to do with this dialectic, but unfortunately we end up with a clash between the two, rather than an integration, finding a synthesis (to touch upon Hegel). So we find ourselves in a situation where many feel that the two are opposed, and it becomes exacerbated by dualistic thinking on both sides. People on the right say, "individual responsibility - and if you can't hack it in our system, it's your fault." People on the left say, "it is the system that oppresses and is not your fault." So we're left with two very partial, damaging, and ultimately erroneous underlying assumptions.

There's also the question of priorities: where we, as a culture, put our priorities, and how we view "the good life." The left, or at least elements of the left, is basically an objection to the idea that our priorities are focused on economics, on personal gain, on the profit motive - and yes, on individual wealth accumulation, at least when it is at the expense of others (e.g. Jeff Bezos' 200 billion, while his employees work in an untenable environment, with poor pay and benefits). Progressive platforms such as the Green New Deal, UBI, MfA, etc, aren't intended as means to control individual liberty, but increasing quality of life - so that more people (equality) can live "the good life." And perhaps more importantly, that the "good life" should not be defined by finances, but by health, happiness, human relationships, creative fulfillment, etc.

I agree regarding magical thinking, and connected to that, most people vote more affectively - who they like, connect with, feel like is "one of them." Most people also vote for self-interest.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 17, 2020, 01:25:05 PM
Lulz. Well, you and yours have spent four years:

> calling anyone to the right of Stalin a 'fascist'
> referring to anyone who even vaguely supports Trump a 'fascist'
> when you're not calling them racists, bigots, misogynists, etc.

So I will take your disdain and wear it like a badge of honor, and dare you to do something about it, bitch. Because neither I, nor 70 million other 'fascists', aren't going away just because you say so.

I wish people would stop painting with such a broad brush. All you're really doing here is creating a caricature of everyone to the left of you, as if they (we) are all Marxists, all hate conservatives, all think the same. In other words, you're being an instant of your own complaint.

Certainly, this type of viewpoint exists and is promulgated by much of the media, as well as in sub-cultural pockets like TBP, but it isn't shared by all.

So if you want people to stop calling you a fascist, maybe do the same.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 17, 2020, 01:40:07 PM

I wish people would stop painting with such a broad brush. All you're really doing here is creating a caricature of everyone to the left of you, as if they (we) are all Marxists, all hate conservatives, all think the same. In other words, you're being an instant of your own complaint.

Certainly, this type of viewpoint exists and is promulgated by much of the media, as well as in sub-cultural pockets like TBP, but it isn't shared by all.

So if you want people to stop calling you a fascist, maybe do the same.
Awww, did someone's precious fee-fees get hurt? Get fucked, buddy. This is the future you chose.

Nice gaslighting attempt though. What's your encore gonna be?

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 17, 2020, 01:42:34 PM
What the fuck (https://spectator.org/maria-bartiromo-sidney-powell-dominion/).

Wow. Just... wow. I cannot wait to see how the left tries to spin this. There is no sane, rational reason for us to use a goddamn election system with ties to fucking Venezuela of all places.

Stolen elections. That's what we get. Hope everyone bought enough ammo.

Well if Rudy says it, it must be true!

Anyhow, who do you think is coming to get you in a Biden presidency? And how does a Biden presidency help the defunct administration of a dead Venezuelan politician?


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 17, 2020, 01:44:12 PM
I wish people would stop painting with such a broad brush. All you're really doing here is creating a caricature of everyone to the left of you, as if they (we) are all Marxists, all hate conservatives, all think the same. In other words, you're being an instant of your own complaint.
Agreed. Though it applies to both sides. I wish people would go back to addressing what someone says, instead of using their comments as a launchpad to make an attack an some abstract Other that only really exists in their head.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 17, 2020, 01:44:25 PM

I wish people would stop painting with such a broad brush. All you're really doing here is creating a caricature of everyone to the left of you, as if they (we) are all Marxists, all hate conservatives, all think the same. In other words, you're being an instant of your own complaint.

Certainly, this type of viewpoint exists and is promulgated by much of the media, as well as in sub-cultural pockets like TBP, but it isn't shared by all.

So if you want people to stop calling you a fascist, maybe do the same.
Awww, did someone's precious fee-fees get hurt? Get fucked, buddy. This is the future you chose.

Nice gaslighting attempt though. What's your encore gonna be?

Master of Projection! My feelings aren't hurt - sorry, but your opinion doesn't really hold any weight to me.

But please address what I said. You're whining about something you're actually doing. That isn't gaslighting - it is pointing out your hypocrisy and projection.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 17, 2020, 01:44:55 PM
I wish people would stop painting with such a broad brush. All you're really doing here is creating a caricature of everyone to the left of you, as if they (we) are all Marxists, all hate conservatives, all think the same. In other words, you're being an instant of your own complaint.
Agreed. Though it applies to both sides. I wish people would go back to addressing what someone says, instead of using their comments as a launchpad to make an attack an some abstract Other that only really exists in their head.

Agreed.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 17, 2020, 02:07:43 PM
Well if Rudy says it, it must be true!

Anyhow, who do you think is coming to get you in a Biden presidency? And how does a Biden presidency help the defunct administration of a dead Venezuelan politician?

As your friend Nikolai Lenin, ...you know it is not patriotic to ask that question of me, comrade.

(https://jamesjjackson.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/img_0556.jpg?w=615&h=1024)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 17, 2020, 02:09:21 PM

I wish people would stop painting with such a broad brush. All you're really doing here is creating a caricature of everyone to the left of you, as if they (we) are all Marxists, all hate conservatives, all think the same. In other words, you're being an instant of your own complaint.

Certainly, this type of viewpoint exists and is promulgated by much of the media, as well as in sub-cultural pockets like TBP, but it isn't shared by all.

So if you want people to stop calling you a fascist, maybe do the same.
Awww, did someone's precious fee-fees get hurt? Get fucked, buddy. This is the future you chose.

Nice gaslighting attempt though. What's your encore gonna be?

Master of Projection! My feelings aren't hurt - sorry, but your opinion doesn't really hold any weight to me.

But please address what I said. You're whining about something you're actually doing. That isn't gaslighting - it is pointing out your hypocrisy and projection.
Oh please. Since you have the memory of a goldfish, let's review:

Bitch was tossing around the 'fascist' label/
I remarked on how he (and his fellow demagogues) had been using that label to target anyone who wasn't a proper proggie, and voiced my contempt for him over it.
You came riding to the rescue with a pathetic 'NO U DO IT TOO' defense.

You know, you really have to be denser than Christmas gravy to try and gaslight me with a 'oh those nasty lefties don't exist'. Have we not discussed the words and actions of public persons on this very subforum? Do you know who Keith Olbermann is? Robert Reich? That's just two of many. Shall we discuss the (publicly defunct, for now) Trump Accountability Project? Shall we discuss this column (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/call-out-karen-but-dont-forget-about-kevin-they-chose-trump-twice/ar-BB1b3KMe?ocid=msedgntp), published in Time Magazine?

*snort* 'abstract other that only really exists in their head' my entire ass.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 17, 2020, 02:25:32 PM
There is no "extensive voter fraud" and what little has been uncovered has mostly been MAGA morons trying to cheat at the polls. The fact that the white supremacist Oompa-Loompa's personal attorney* has made all kinds of ridiculous claims doesn't make them true.
Determining that is the job of the courts, not GSA administrators or highly partisan internet posters who think movie clips are evidence.

And it would be a strange world where a "white supremacist" does so well among black and hispanic voters, wouldn't it?

I agree that it's the job of the courts. It's fine to discuss it on the Internet - we discuss everything else, after all. But I think the huge problem is that people have largely made up their minds already long before the legal process. They aren't willing to discuss evidence, and if the courts rule against their preconceptions, I predict that most will simply reject the courts as illegitimate.


I would agree that Trump is not a white supremacist, though. Also, on an off-topic note on Venezuela, I think that Maduro is indeed a dictator - but Chavez was not. You claimed that Hitler rose to power by legitimate election, but he lost the 1932 election gaining only 36% of the vote - and was appointed chancellor largely to prevent more Nazi violence. The 1933 elections after the Reichstag fire weren't even close to legitimate. By contrast, Chavez was elected with 56% and a wide margin in 1998 in a system controlled by his opponents, and retained popularity through his death in 2013. I'll buy that he started a slide towards authoritarianism with his second-term constitutional reforms, but it was Maduro who turned Venezuela into a dictatorship.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 17, 2020, 02:35:38 PM
Well if Rudy says it, it must be true!

Anyhow, who do you think is coming to get you in a Biden presidency? And how does a Biden presidency help the defunct administration of a dead Venezuelan politician?

As your friend Nikolai Lenin, ...you know it is not patriotic to ask that question of me, comrade.

(https://jamesjjackson.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/img_0556.jpg?w=615&h=1024)
At first glance, I thought that picture was Mirror Universe Picard. At second glance, I'm almost sure it is...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 17, 2020, 02:38:10 PM
You know, you really have to be denser than Christmas gravy to try and gaslight me with a 'oh those nasty lefties don't exist'. Have we not discussed the words and actions of public persons on this very subforum? Do you know who Keith Olbermann is? Robert Reich? That's just two of many. Shall we discuss the (publicly defunct, for now) Trump Accountability Project? Shall we discuss this column (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/call-out-karen-but-dont-forget-about-kevin-they-chose-trump-twice/ar-BB1b3KMe?ocid=msedgntp), published in Time Magazine?
I don't think you quoted the post you meant to quote.

Have either of them posted in this thread? No? Has anyone defended those specific issues? No? Then you're not addressing the arguments made by anyone in the thread, you're attacking a fictional Other that you've compiled from an assortment of sources.

It's fine to comment on movements and tendencies, but when you start equating them with individuals, that's a conversation ender.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 17, 2020, 02:40:46 PM
It's fine to comment on movements and tendencies, but when you start equating them with individuals, that's a conversation ender.
If that were true, there would be no conversations left in this place.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 17, 2020, 02:49:20 PM
So if you want people to stop calling you a fascist, maybe do the same.

How can we be fascist when our name literally is anti-fascist?

 ???
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 17, 2020, 02:51:44 PM

I wish people would stop painting with such a broad brush. All you're really doing here is creating a caricature of everyone to the left of you, as if they (we) are all Marxists, all hate conservatives, all think the same. In other words, you're being an instant of your own complaint.

Certainly, this type of viewpoint exists and is promulgated by much of the media, as well as in sub-cultural pockets like TBP, but it isn't shared by all.

So if you want people to stop calling you a fascist, maybe do the same.
Awww, did someone's precious fee-fees get hurt? Get fucked, buddy. This is the future you chose.

Nice gaslighting attempt though. What's your encore gonna be?

Master of Projection! My feelings aren't hurt - sorry, but your opinion doesn't really hold any weight to me.

But please address what I said. You're whining about something you're actually doing. That isn't gaslighting - it is pointing out your hypocrisy and projection.
Oh please. Since you have the memory of a goldfish, let's review:

Bitch was tossing around the 'fascist' label/
I remarked on how he (and his fellow demagogues) had been using that label to target anyone who wasn't a proper proggie, and voiced my contempt for him over it.
You came riding to the rescue with a pathetic 'NO U DO IT TOO' defense.

You know, you really have to be denser than Christmas gravy to try and gaslight me with a 'oh those nasty lefties don't exist'. Have we not discussed the words and actions of public persons on this very subforum? Do you know who Keith Olbermann is? Robert Reich? That's just two of many. Shall we discuss the (publicly defunct, for now) Trump Accountability Project? Shall we discuss this column (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/call-out-karen-but-dont-forget-about-kevin-they-chose-trump-twice/ar-BB1b3KMe?ocid=msedgntp), published in Time Magazine?

*snort* 'abstract other that only really exists in their head' my entire ass.

You seem to have reading comprehension issues. I enver said "those nasty lefties don't exist" - I clearly said they do. I said you are doing the same thing you're accusing them of, and not grokking that not all on the left hate Trump voters.

p.s. Biden isn't a "lefty" is center-right at best.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 17, 2020, 03:06:47 PM
You know, you really have to be denser than Christmas gravy to try and gaslight me with a 'oh those nasty lefties don't exist'. Have we not discussed the words and actions of public persons on this very subforum? Do you know who Keith Olbermann is? Robert Reich? That's just two of many. Shall we discuss the (publicly defunct, for now) Trump Accountability Project? Shall we discuss this column (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/call-out-karen-but-dont-forget-about-kevin-they-chose-trump-twice/ar-BB1b3KMe?ocid=msedgntp), published in Time Magazine?
I don't think you quoted the post you meant to quote.

Have either of them posted in this thread? No? Has anyone defended those specific issues? No? Then you're not addressing the arguments made by anyone in the thread, you're attacking a fictional Other that you've compiled from an assortment of sources.

It's fine to comment on movements and tendencies, but when you start equating them with individuals, that's a conversation ender.
The point is that Mercurius is being deliberately untruthful by attempting to bullshit me with 'oh those nasty, evil leftists don't exist except in your head'. And then whining that I'm 'painting with a broad brush' when I point out that the major arc of leftism these days sure as hell looks like 'let's now punish anyone involved with those evil Trumpists or Republikkkans!'.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 17, 2020, 03:08:43 PM
It's fine to comment on movements and tendencies, but when you start equating them with individuals, that's a conversation ender.
If that were true, there would be no conversations left in this place.
I sometimes think that's an accurate statement.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 17, 2020, 03:10:08 PM
I agree that it's the job of the courts. It's fine to discuss it on the Internet - we discuss everything else, after all. But I think the huge problem is that people have largely made up their minds already long before the legal process. They aren't willing to discuss evidence, and if the courts rule against their preconceptions, I predict that most will simply reject the courts as illegitimate.
The media hasn't helped. If they simply said "projected president elect", "purported president elect", or something similar, then it might not be this bad. Instead, they're acting as if the Associated Press is the official arbiter, which is simply not true.

Also, on an off-topic note on Venezuela, I think that Maduro is indeed a dictator - but Chavez was not. You claimed that Hitler rose to power by legitimate election, but he lost the 1932 election gaining only 36% of the vote - and was appointed chancellor largely to prevent more Nazi violence. The 1933 elections after the Reichstag fire weren't even close to legitimate. By contrast, Chavez was elected with 56% and a wide margin in 1998 in a system controlled by his opponents, and retained popularity through his death in 2013. I'll buy that he started a slide towards authoritarianism with his second-term constitutional reforms, but it was Maduro who turned Venezuela into a dictatorship.
I said that Chavez was borderline authoritarian, while Maduro was over the edge, so it doesn't sound like we're disagreeing to any significant degree.

And Hitler became Chancellor legitimately, as the result of an election. The percentage doesn't affect that. More generally, I'd argue that many modern authoritarians have come to see democracy as a means to power.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 17, 2020, 03:18:01 PM

You seem to have reading comprehension issues. I enver said "those nasty lefties don't exist" - I clearly said they do. I said you are doing the same thing you're accusing them of, and not grokking that not all on the left hate Trump voters.

p.s. Biden isn't a "lefty" is center-right at best.
Tell the truth: you're not really a person, you're an AI with a malfunctioning script of responses, right? Biden as center-right? Sure

Biden as center right. Uh huh. Voted yes on gun control, voted no on tax cuts. Sure, buddy.

And since you have a weak memory, let me reiterate a remark you made:

Quote
Agreed. Though it applies to both sides. I wish people would go back to addressing what someone says, instead of using their comments as a launchpad to make an attack an some abstract Other that only really exists in their head.

My goodness. I roll out some examples to show 'this isn't just in my head' and you just don't even notice, do you?

And yes, I am spreading the love around shotgun style. Four years of being told I was a fascist, because I didn't think some grifting political slattern from Arkansas wasn't the best pick for the Presidency.

Tough shit. Deal with it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 17, 2020, 03:38:19 PM
Four years of being told I was a fascist, because I didn't think
Come on now, concede nothing! There's no reason to think you wont's be told that for (at least) another four years!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 17, 2020, 03:46:34 PM
And since you have a weak memory, let me reiterate a remark you made:
No, the "abstract Other" was my post, not Mercurius'. I was objecting to your "you and yours", because you were explicitly conflating a person with everything you associated with a side, instead of addressing what they said.

Though looking back, this whole chain of replies is a complete mess. You've been primarily replying to Mercurius, but the initial "you and yours" post wasn't a reply to Mercurius, it was a reply to Elfdart. Whose post was ridiculously inflammatory, calling a broad swath of people (you probably included) fascists. But that was Elfdart, not any of the people you've been replying to lately.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 17, 2020, 03:54:44 PM
No, the "abstract Other" was my post, not Mercurius'. I was objecting to your "you and yours", because you were explicitly conflating a person with everything you associated with a side, instead of addressing what they said.

Though looking back, this whole chain of replies is a complete mess. You've been primarily replying to Mercurius, but the initial "you and yours" post wasn't a reply to Mercurius, it was a reply to Elfdart. Whose post was ridiculously inflammatory, calling a broad swath of people (you probably included) fascists. But that was Elfdart, not any of the people you've been replying to lately.
Pat, let me make it simpler for you: I don't care what you think in this situation.

Right now I can pull another dozen names -- and these aren't just Twatter nobodies, these are public figures with blue checkmarks who in some cases hold or have held public office -- who happily discuss how much they want to punish anyone who didn't want to vote for Joe Biden or for that matter, Hillary Clinton. This is the state of politics today in the U.S.

STOP FUCKING TELLING ME I'M IMAGINING IT.

Stop stanning for Mercurius, too. He decided to jump in to defend Elfdart. It's on him.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 17, 2020, 03:59:20 PM
The reason it’s gaslighting is because what “principled liberals” here react to, is someone to their right making a hyperbolic statement - but not someone to their left.

Jhkim and Mercurius will ask those to the right of them to moderate and to please not become overly partisan.  If hard leftists post similarly from farther to their left, that is directly replied to to a much lesser degree.  It is essentially accepted as a sunk outcome while they focus on convincing those right of them to always note all leftists aren’t like that, and to not become likewise

This is gaslighting, because the root cause (those to their left) is not addressed.  It also is passive, refusing to ever define ahead of time the line beyond when those to their left have gone so far an immoderate approach is warranted. 

This is how scissors works.  It can’t effect those left of them, and so concentrates on preventing those right of them from changing mindset with appeals to principles that are only effective when upheld by all, but which become Neville-variety appeasement (at best) when held unilaterally.

It’s really, really important though that those to their right never respond to rock without stopping to spontaneously acknowledge how scissors is different than rock
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 17, 2020, 04:15:33 PM
And just so we don't make this the 'Ghostmaker takes on all comers' thread, here's some more meat:

https://buffalochronicle.com/2020/11/14/exclusive-how-a-philly-mob-boss-stole-the-election-and-why-he-may-flip-on-joe-biden/

I have no idea if the Buffalo Chronicle is any good or is another Daily Mail, but holy shit, the brass balls on this son of a bitch if this is true.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 17, 2020, 04:24:28 PM
Right now I can pull another dozen names -- and these aren't just Twatter nobodies, these are public figures with blue checkmarks who in some cases hold or have held public office -- who happily discuss how much they want to punish anyone who didn't want to vote for Joe Biden or for that matter, Hillary Clinton. This is the state of politics today in the U.S.

STOP FUCKING TELLING ME I'M IMAGINING IT.
Fuck this, I tried.

I never told you you imagined anything, BTW. I said you took a lot of things, combined them, and then attacked other people as if they were that thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 17, 2020, 04:29:02 PM
The reason it’s gaslighting is because what “principled liberals” here react to, is someone to their right making a hyperbolic statement - but not someone to their left.

Jhkim and Mercurius will ask those to the right of them to moderate and to please not become overly partisan.  If hard leftists post similarly from farther to their left, that is directly replied to to a much lesser degree.

In recent times, I agreed with shuddemell in his link condemning extremist leftist threats. I pushed back correcting rawma when he claimed that Veritas hadn't posted their video. I agreed in calling Maduro a dictator.

I more often respond against right-wing talk - but on this forum, right-wing talk is much more common than left-wing talk. There's isn't anyone on the left here who is close to the prolificness and extreme language of SHARK's rants, or extreme claims to the level of RandyB or consolcwby citing over 30 million fraudulent votes. We have had some extreme left here in the past - Biscuitician was an extreme left-wing poster, for example. But in general, I'm responding to the frequency and extremism of posts.

In left-wing circles, I find I'm often considered a pain-in-the-ass and possibly a traitor for my positions.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 17, 2020, 04:37:13 PM
The reason it’s gaslighting is because what “principled liberals” here react to, is someone to their right making a hyperbolic statement - but not someone to their left.

Jhkim and Mercurius will ask those to the right of them to moderate and to please not become overly partisan.  If hard leftists post similarly from farther to their left, that is directly replied to to a much lesser degree.  It is essentially accepted as a sunk outcome while they focus on convincing those right of them to always note all leftists aren’t like that, and to not become likewise

This is gaslighting, because the root cause (those to their left) is not addressed.  It also is passive, refusing to ever define ahead of time the line beyond when those to their left have gone so far an immoderate approach is warranted. 

This is how scissors works.  It can’t effect those left of them, and so concentrates on preventing those right of them from changing mindset with appeals to principles that are only effective when upheld by all, but which become Neville-variety appeasement (at best) when held unilaterally.

It’s really, really important though that those to their right never respond to rock without stopping to spontaneously acknowledge how scissors is different than rock

Greetings!

EXACTLY, EOTB!

Communist morons like Elfdart can run their mouth with impunity, shrieking the most absolute nonsense--and Mercurious and Jhkim and HappyDaze have nothing to say about it. Oh, and you also don't see them critiquing a damned thing that Larsdangley or Rawma ever run their mouth about, either.

Oh, but goddamned, the ULTRA CONSERVATIVES like SHARK and Spinachcat and Ghostmaker are so terrible! REEEE! REEE! REEE!

The Libtards are so swarmy and *duplicitous* They love gurgling the pathetic, delusional milk that Biden is some kind of "Centrist". No, no, don't look at his website and campaign where he embraces AOC, Bernie Sanders--fucking Communists. No, no, don't look at how he has aligned himself with AOC "Green New Deal", Bernie "Medicare For ALL", Beto O' Rourke--"Damned right we're coming to take your guns!"--no, no, you must ignore all of that. Just get on your knees and open your mouth to more Communist delusion milk!

Just believe in the healing power of Biden!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 17, 2020, 04:40:16 PM
There's isn't anyone on the left here who is close to the prolificness and extreme language of SHARK's rants...
Elfdart start more recently, but is doing their damnedest to catch up. And SHARK is quite reasonable most of the time, it's just this election seems to bring out the cheerleaders. On that topic more than any other, the tone has changed from debate to team rallying cries.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 17, 2020, 04:45:17 PM
The reason it’s gaslighting is because what “principled liberals” here react to, is someone to their right making a hyperbolic statement - but not someone to their left.

Jhkim and Mercurius will ask those to the right of them to moderate and to please not become overly partisan.  If hard leftists post similarly from farther to their left, that is directly replied to to a much lesser degree.

In recent times, I agreed with shuddemell in his link condemning extremist leftist threats. I pushed back correcting rawma when he claimed that Veritas hadn't posted their video. I agreed in calling Maduro a dictator.

I more often respond against right-wing talk - but on this forum, right-wing talk is much more common than left-wing talk. There's isn't anyone on the left here who is close to the prolificness and extreme language of SHARK's rants, or extreme claims to the level of RandyB or consolcwby citing over 30 million fraudulent votes. We have had some extreme left here in the past - Biscuitician was an extreme left-wing poster, for example. But in general, I'm responding to the frequency and extremism of posts.

In left-wing circles, I find I'm often considered a pain-in-the-ass and possibly a traitor for my positions.

Greetings!

Jhkim, have you heard the expression of "Throwing the dog a bone"?

You periodically throw Conservatives a bone by occasional agreement, or defense, as the case may be--but your critiques against Left wingers is, to be honest, seems awfully tepid.

You know that's right! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on November 17, 2020, 04:47:36 PM

Quote
Thanks for bringing philosophical depth to the conversation - as well as tinges of humor interspersed throughout.
:hattip:

Quote
I think my main objection to your narrative is that it seems too dualistic, too simplistic. This is not to say that I think you are simplistic--clearly, you are not--but that there are many other factors involved, many roots that have grown the tree that we currently experience (or streams that feed the river), and you're singling out a specific root or stream (whichever metaphor you prefer), which leads to ignoring other roots and streams.

Not at all. To understand any large scale problem it is often necessary to break it down into components, and depending on the topic shrink or expand that part (I am thinking of how Plato's Republic was presented as an exercise in understanding Virtue) until you can grasp the problem.  Someone commented about how a significant portion of the Progressive Left, or SJWs or Biden Supporters (I don't recall exactly which group was being discusseed) seemed perfectly happy to ignore reality and make all their judgements off of Feels, which is why I broke down exactly why this particular type of thinking is so prevalent.  From the common 'Enlightenment' point of view the retreat to Feelings over Facts seems self evidently wrong, lacking in any sort of seriousness, hypocritical and more.... but when you realize that very serious thinkers put a lot of serious thought into rejecting reason, it might perhaps offer a better solution to our apparently intractable social bifurcation.  The first step in solving a problem is to CORRECTLY identify the problem.

As long as people keep focusing on the fight between team jerseys, between the Cheeto Furher vs Gropin' Joe, tehy aren't addressing the problem.


That said, absolutely I've ignored all the other roots and branches of the problem. Not because I deny their existance, validity or even importance, but simply because I am methodical. I only saw at one branch at a time. Preferrably the one I'm not standing on, but....



Quote
For instance, a major aspect of American politics centers around the question of American empire and the nature and use of power, and how that is spun. Some feel that America should be the dominant force in global politics, and should wield their military might to keep the order (while also protecting corporate interests), while others feel that we shouldn't be as involved in other nations and be more focused on domestic concerns and/or peace efforts globally. This isn't a right-left split, as progressives and libertarians come close to agreement on the latter, and are in opposition to the establishment narrative, whether left-leaning or right-leaning.

It's my lucky day! I was just thinking earlier that a great deal of the modern political divide, particularly on the matter of Immigration comes from a framework issue. Most Americans, the 'common man' crowd, tend to see America as a country, and they wonder why they can't keep their country for themselves.  However, almost everyone else, including the 'public elites', and especially foreigners, see America as an EMPIRE, which it unfortunately has become, and feel that it is only good and right (even Just) for members of the Empire to have the right to travel to the heartland of the Empire and participate in its governance... after all they have a stake in it, don't they?

I must reluctantly conceed that America is an Empire, but as a citizen of the Country of America, I have to agree that, as much as I like Korma, if I wanted to live in India, I'd move to Mumbai, just to pick one of the many possible provinces of Empire currently influencing our local politics.  The solution seems quite obvious to me: End the Empire.  Pull the warships back, close the foreign bases, and stop tossing MOABs around like they were fourth of july fireworks.  I do not care of the Hutus and Tutsis are slaughtering each other with machetes. I don't care which tribe rules Yemen, or if Iran or Turkey gets to play kingmaker in the Middle East. I don't care if China plants a flag on a god damn glorified sand bar in the South China Sea, or if Japan bombs Beijing because they are pissed that their flag isn't flying over said glorified Sandbar. Let them murder each other, or not.



Quote
Another relevant stream is the twin ideals of liberty and equality, and how that has played out in American history. In a very crude way, conservatism focused more on liberty, leftism more on equality. The American experiment has a lot to do with this dialectic, but unfortunately we end up with a clash between the two, rather than an integration, finding a synthesis (to touch upon Hegel). So we find ourselves in a situation where many feel that the two are opposed, and it becomes exacerbated by dualistic thinking on both sides. People on the right say, "individual responsibility - and if you can't hack it in our system, it's your fault." People on the left say, "it is the system that oppresses and is not your fault." So we're left with two very partial, damaging, and ultimately erroneous underlying assumptions.

False.  The difference between, as you put it, Conservativism vs Leftism, regarding Equality is over the DEFINITION of Equality, and much less so over where it stands in a hierarchy of ideals.

As is commonly stated, the conflict is between the Equality of Opportunity (the Right and even classic Liberal, take on Equality) vs the Equality of Outcomes favored by the left.   I can support your misguided statement by suggesting that Opportunity is a matter of freedom, of liberty, while Outcomes requires a stern authoritarian hand to implement, taking from those who have earned 'more than their share' to give to those who have not attained their own, so you can make the argument you did... but only by obscuring the matter at hand.  Both the Left and Right are interested in Equality, it is how they are measuring Equality that differs, and so very much. 




Quote
There's also the question of priorities: where we, as a culture, put our priorities, and how we view "the good life." The left, or at least elements of the left, is basically an objection to the idea that our priorities are focused on economics, on personal gain, on the profit motive - and yes, on individual wealth accumulation, at least when it is at the expense of others (e.g. Jeff Bezos' 200 billion, while his employees work in an untenable environment, with poor pay and benefits). Progressive platforms such as the Green New Deal, UBI, MfA, etc, aren't intended as means to control individual liberty, but increasing quality of life - so that more people (equality) can live "the good life." And perhaps more importantly, that the "good life" should not be defined by finances, but by health, happiness, human relationships, creative fulfillment, etc.

You seem to be suggesting that Jeff Bezos is a man of the Right, that it isn't a fact that the billionaires are supporting the modern left and all their initiatives (Green New Deal) that you are saying are all about 'quality of life'.

No. Those initiatives are about power, about control, particularly of the 'common man', since the wealthy and polticially connected elites will not be subjected to the various rules and regulations, just as we see all these deeply concerned environmentalist celebrities and politicans flying all over the world to exotic locations to have their various confabs about how to reduce carbon footprints.

The Green New Deal will absolutely NOT improve anyone's quality of life. Obamacare did not improve the medical coverage for the vast majority of Americans... it made it worse.  The expansion of regulations, of intrusive power, of 'one size fits all' solutions from a top down system of government and beaurocracy is never the answer.   

Quote
I agree regarding magical thinking, and connected to that, most people vote more affectively - who they like, connect with, feel like is "one of them." Most people also vote for self-interest.

Way back in 2007, I realized The West was doomed when I began reading articles discussing John Edwards vs Hillary Clinton in the local rag, focused almost entirely on which candidate was the 'woman's candidate', as if the task of running the Empire was something utterly irrelevant to what we were voting on, and instead which candidate was best for some nearly arbitrary identity political niche. 

Then again: Athens won the Peloponnessian War at least three times before they hung all their generals for winning a major naval battle and basically handed the war to Sparta. Democracy truly is a wonderful system of government.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 17, 2020, 04:50:51 PM
There's isn't anyone on the left here who is close to the prolificness and extreme language of SHARK's rants...
Elfdart start more recently, but is doing their damnedest to catch up. And SHARK is quite reasonable most of the time, it's just this election seems to bring out the cheerleaders. On that topic more than any other, the tone has changed from debate to team rallying cries.

Greetings!

Thank you, Pat. I do try to be reasonable most of the time! ;D

Sometimes, though, I read or watch videos on the Interwebs and come here, and read stuff here, and well, it can get me all excited where I get in the mood to breathe fire and rant. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 17, 2020, 04:52:27 PM
The reason it’s gaslighting is because what “principled liberals” here react to, is someone to their right making a hyperbolic statement - but not someone to their left.

Jhkim and Mercurius will ask those to the right of them to moderate and to please not become overly partisan.  If hard leftists post similarly from farther to their left, that is directly replied to to a much lesser degree.

In recent times, I agreed with shuddemell in his link condemning extremist leftist threats. I pushed back correcting rawma when he claimed that Veritas hadn't posted their video. I agreed in calling Maduro a dictator.

I more often respond against right-wing talk - but on this forum, right-wing talk is much more common than left-wing talk. There's isn't anyone on the left here who is close to the prolificness and extreme language of SHARK's rants, or extreme claims to the level of RandyB or consolcwby citing over 30 million fraudulent votes. We have had some extreme left here in the past - Biscuitician was an extreme left-wing poster, for example. But in general, I'm responding to the frequency and extremism of posts.

In left-wing circles, I find I'm often considered a pain-in-the-ass and possibly a traitor for my positions.



Yes, you’ll “point of order” left wing posters.  No disagreement there.  My post is about the subtle use of persuasion on individual posters, not data-concurrence.  Even when agreeing with shuddermel the reflex was to create an equivalency (that did not exist) - “both sides do it and are wrong for doing it”.  That’s a persuasion to cool down, righty.  Are you doing similarly to Elfdart and Rawma’s hyperbole?  (As opposed to their facts)

I have no doubt people to the left of you react as you say in their communities.  As I said, your methods aren’t effective persuading that mindset.  Rock beats scissors.  Here among paper the approach receives more traction and less derision.  Neville was more successful in persuading the British than the Germans...because he pointed toward what the British wished to come to pass. 


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 17, 2020, 04:59:14 PM
Greetings!

I didn't want to quote the long nested commentary, but your commentary is very cool, Spike!

You made me fucking laugh with the "Cheetoh Fuhrer" comment, too. *Hilarious*!

Yes, Athens did fuck up and lose terribly! *Laughing* And Democracy was crushed, thanks to stupidity and ineptitude.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 17, 2020, 05:02:17 PM
Jhkim, have you heard the expression of "Throwing the dog a bone"?

You periodically throw Conservatives a bone by occasional agreement, or defense, as the case may be--but your critiques against Left wingers is, to be honest, seems awfully tepid.

You know that's right! ;D
SHARK, how often do you hotly critique right wingers? Kim is clearly on the left wing (thought not to an extreme), so I wouldn't expect equally balanced treatment of both sides, any more than I would from you.

Plus, at least from my perspective, criticizing left wing posters on this site often feels like dogpiling, because every post they make often gets a half a dozen impassioned replies. In that case, ducking out isn't tacit agreement, it's just politeness because they're already being hammered.

Though that's shifted a bit in the last couple of days, with rants by Elfdart, drive-by sniping by Happy Daze, and the more reasoned approaches from Mercurious and JHKim. But they're still a minority.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 17, 2020, 05:27:48 PM
“I am a centrist” (or “principled liberal) is a condition that either confronts both extremes or is false.

I don’t give Rawma any guff; he wears the colors of the opposition openly.  Same with Elfdart.  (Elfdart-types carrying the opposition’s flag publicly is optics I can live with)

My point isn’t to get anyone to change.  Everyone is who they are. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 17, 2020, 05:29:55 PM
And just so we don't make this the 'Ghostmaker takes on all comers' thread, here's some more meat:

https://buffalochronicle.com/2020/11/14/exclusive-how-a-philly-mob-boss-stole-the-election-and-why-he-may-flip-on-joe-biden/

I have no idea if the Buffalo Chronicle is any good or is another Daily Mail, but holy shit, the brass balls on this son of a bitch if this is true.
If you want to know the answer: "Overall, we rate The Buffalo Chronicle Questionable based on far-right-wing bias, a complete lack of transparency, promotion of propaganda/conspiracy theories, and several failed fact checks." https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-buffalo-chronicle/ (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-buffalo-chronicle/)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 17, 2020, 05:32:58 PM
Jhkim, have you heard the expression of "Throwing the dog a bone"?

You periodically throw Conservatives a bone by occasional agreement, or defense, as the case may be--but your critiques against Left wingers is, to be honest, seems awfully tepid.

You know that's right! ;D
SHARK, how often do you hotly critique right wingers? Kim is clearly on the left wing (thought not to an extreme), so I wouldn't expect equally balanced treatment of both sides, any more than I would from you.

Plus, at least from my perspective, criticizing left wing posters on this site often feels like dogpiling, because every post they make often gets a half a dozen impassioned replies. In that case, ducking out isn't tacit agreement, it's just politeness because they're already being hammered.

Though that's shifted a bit in the last couple of days, with rants by Elfdart, drive-by sniping by Happy Daze, and the more reasoned approaches from Mercurious and JHKim. But they're still a minority.
If you look closely, I snipe at anyone that encourages violence and escalation, whether they're on the left or right.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 17, 2020, 05:33:47 PM
Plus, at least from my perspective, criticizing left wing posters on this site often feels like dogpiling, because every post they make often gets a half a dozen impassioned replies. In that case, ducking out isn't tacit agreement, it's just politeness because they're already being hammered.

I think we're lucky to have the few voices of opposition we have, excepting the ones who just do it to troll. If someone's going to argue a point effectively, they need to be able to address criticism. Some posters are better at this than others.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 17, 2020, 05:35:10 PM
There's isn't anyone on the left here who is close to the prolificness and extreme language of SHARK's rants...
Elfdart start more recently, but is doing their damnedest to catch up. And SHARK is quite reasonable most of the time, it's just this election seems to bring out the cheerleaders. On that topic more than any other, the tone has changed from debate to team rallying cries.

Elfdart has had like 6 posts after 6 months of silence. Even if that weren't true, there are a lot more posters like SHARK than there are like Elfdart. And there were even fewer left-wing posters prior to the election results, it seems to me. But if Elfdart continues, I'll try to respond.


You periodically throw Conservatives a bone by occasional agreement, or defense, as the case may be--but your critiques against Left wingers is, to be honest, seems awfully tepid.

You know that's right! ;D

I'm not claiming to be centrist. I'm a liberal. However, I am making an effort to say what I actually believe, and be willing to disagree with both liberals and conservatives to the extent that they disagree with that. I have some non-standard liberal positions, like being pro-nuclear-power, anti-organic, anti-affirmative-action, and anti-rent-control. I think we may have irreconcilable differences over moral and ethical principles, but I think we should at least be able to discuss and possibly even agree about what objective reality is.

As far as the topic goes -- from what I can tell, Elfdart's position is that there is election fraud but (a) it's not extensive, and (b) it's more from Republicans than Democrats. I don't agree with him in that I don't see clear evidence, but I don't think his position is anywhere near the extreme of RandyB's position that there were over 45 million fraudulent votes for Biden. I think the latter is just wacko. Regardless of politics, it's just not believable.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 17, 2020, 07:13:15 PM
Am I considered right-wing because I first talked about the electoral college, or that the voters do NOT directly vote for a candidate? Why is it that everyone on the left is on auto-detect and a subversive all of a sudden. I mean, being accused of being a child or a simpleton, or of never having voted before just because I do NOT agree with the hive mind or the fud IS NOT THE DEFINITION OF LIBERAL. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/liberal
I AM liberal. I AM tolerant. And I keep warning people of what may come down the pike. Even those who are INTOLERANT and INSOLENT to the lawful process. Which is why I am committed to dumping INTERESTING and RE SEARCHABLE information. Unbelievable how some people are so WANTING a fight, that they call for innocent blood. I have been called dramatic: Somewhat true, somewhat false. I have my reasons for posting the way I post - I want someone to KNOW I don't give an inch on my experiences. Not a MILLimeter!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 17, 2020, 07:17:28 PM
Unbelievable how some people are so WANTING a fight, that they call for innocent blood.
Around these parts, don't waste your action on trying to disbelieve; what you're seeing is not an illusion.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 17, 2020, 07:37:39 PM
  Norway sure looks pretty in shows like Lillyhammer and Ragnorak.   
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 17, 2020, 07:46:20 PM
  Norway sure looks pretty in shows like Lillyhammer and Ragnorak.

Greetings!

Lillyhammer and Ragnorak? What are those shows like, Ogg?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 17, 2020, 08:40:17 PM
Lillyhammer is about an american gangster who gets witness relocated to Norway (no way in hell I see that happening) and the resulting culture clash is hilarious.   Ragnorak was a show on Netflix that though it has a bit of a green tinge with anti corporatism (to be honest I have about had it with multinational corps more so than the most rabid SJW) and more subtitled teen love angle than I normally care for, it entertained me quite a bit.  (basically the huge multinational corporation is run by frost giants who survived ragnorak, and are dismayed to find out one of the Aesir may have been reborn in town, and since he can toss a hammer a mile, they are worried).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 17, 2020, 09:14:35 PM
Am I considered right-wing because I first talked about the electoral college, or that the voters do NOT directly vote for a candidate? Why is it that everyone on the left is on auto-detect and a subversive all of a sudden.
If you say literally anything someone doesn't like, odds are very good they'll immediately label you as the Enemy, and start claiming you believe all kinds of things they've assigned to their Enemy. You don't even have to say something political; pointing out a grammatical error is enough.

This has always been true to some degree, but a decade or more ago you could simply correct them, and they'd accept that. They might even be curious about what you believe, because it defies the pattern. But that's no longer true. And it's not just they've become incurious about different points of view, it's that they can't even accept that alternative perspectives exist. Once you're labeled the Enemy, it doesn't matter what you say. You can protest all you want, but they'll never believe you. They're the experts in what you believe, not you.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 17, 2020, 09:32:22 PM
Some interesting stuff I saw today:
===================================
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/california-men-charged-voter-fraud-after-allegedly-submitting-thousands-applications
https://twitter.com/almostjingo/status/1328510478801256449
https://twitter.com/DarnelSugarfoo/status/1328634843387760642
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1328176062522683393
https://twitter.com/NBCNightlyNews/status/1328730895667302400
https://twitter.com/themarketswork/status/1328508225818296320
https://twitter.com/themarketswork/status/1328508437718732801
https://twitter.com/themarketswork/status/1328509258959179777/photo/1
https://twitter.com/derf_anon/status/1328511268593004545
https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1328553131005931521
https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/17/ted-cruz-slams-jack-dorsey-for-twitter-warnings-slapped-on-tweets-about-voter-fraud/
https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1328562788323762177
https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/static/source/rev-31fc39d/wp-content/uploads/blumenthal-1-1-600x450.jpg
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/sen-blumenthal-urges-mark-zuckerberg-remove-breitbart-gateway-pundit-donald-trump-jr-eric-trump-steve-bannon-facebook/
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/twitter-uprising-demands-that-trump-finally-get-kicked-off-the-platform/

According to the US Constitution, if the vote goes to Congress: House of Reps is voting for President. 1 VOTE PER STATE - 37 Repub. States ... Senate votes for Vice Pres. Thought - If House flips and were to vote for Biden, then Pence would be VP.... However, Repubs would have to do more than JUST a few flips. An interesting thought-experiment of combinations, eh?

===================================

And finally, this:
“DEATH to FASCISM AND the LIBERALISM THAT ENABLES IT.”
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1324167660704198657

"My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular." ~ Adlai E. Stevenson
"Communism is the corruption of a dream of justice." ~ Adlai E. Stevenson

Guess this old dead WHITE DEMOCRAT is canceled now?... I guess being a true liberal (as in liberty - NOT LIBERTINE)
is alt-right now. No longer just McCarthyism? (OR DO I NEED EVIDENCE? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism )

Am I considered right-wing because I first talked about the electoral college, or that the voters do NOT directly vote for a candidate? Why is it that everyone on the left is on auto-detect and a subversive all of a sudden.
@Pat
--snip---
They're the experts in what you believe, not you.
They are also the ones who think I'm avoiding life. Strategic Retreat for the time being...;)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on November 17, 2020, 09:37:30 PM
Well, Nicholas Maduro is a Dictator, and one of the worst. Typical Old World 'Strongman". He was legitimately elected using voting machines designed by a CIA backed company to finagle the vote. And let's just take a close look at those national elections in Venezuela, shall we?

So you're saying the CIA helped elect Maduro, even though the CIA has been trying to remove him (and Chavez before him) for twenty years? Have you tried changing out your bongwater?

Quote
Whenever your President has barred members of the opposition from having an opportunity to be elected, forced them into exile (...becuase they are afraid of being assassinated), or otherwise placed them under house arrest  you can be 100% certain said President is a De Facto Banana Republic Dictator.

By this standard, Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson were dictators because they locked up people who led armed revolts that included attempts to overthrow, kidnap and assassinate duly elected officials. Lincoln and Johnson even had some of them hanged. Members of Congress who backed the Confederacy were expelled from office and barred from ever holding a position of public trust again. They also exiled rebel fifth-columnists.

Want a more recent example? You can slam Clinton and Bush Jr for many things, but anyone claiming they were tyrants because they imprisoned Terry Nichols for life and executed Timothy McVeigh is at best a moron.

Quote
Nicholas Maduro made his business fortune from Drug Trafficking, and there is an oustanding arrest warrant for him, and fifteen million dollar bounty for his capture on his head.

William Barr has a real soft spot for fascist thugs who want to carry out a putsch against duly elected leaders. He testified before Congress that he saw nothing wrong with a baying mob of hooligans brandishing guns and threatening the governor of Michigan. A few weeks later, several of these Blackshirts were arrested when they were caught trying to kidnap and assassinate the governor -clearly they got the message he wanted to send. And after offering a $15 million dollar bounty for the abduction/assassination of Maduro, lo and behold another merry band of thugs were arrested by fish and wildlife officers when they tried to collect the prize in a murder-for-hire scheme. So any accusations of criminal behavior from Trump's AG are little more than an attempt to justify murder -like John Hinckley's letters to Jodie Foster.

Were I a betting man, I'd wager that William Barr is more likely to end up behind bars than Maduro.

Quote
There is your hero, Elfdart, right there.


Were you born this stupid or did your parents drop-kick you head first down a flight of stairs?

Whatever Maduro's faults or crimes might be, they aren't a drop in the bucket compared to what US-backed regimes have in store for anyone so unfortunate as to be forced to live under them. The genocide in Guatemala after the elected Arbenz was overthrown (they're still uncovering mass graves down there) should make anyone think twice when the CIA supports their latest Quisling. Remember last fall when Evo Morales was dubbed a tyrant for winning an election fair and square? I do: a fascist coup was carried out and he was forced to flee for his life. The first act of the putsch regime was to give preemptive amnesty to soldiers and paramilitaries who machine-gunned civilians -which they did.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Em_7b1QW8AAThUT?format=jpg&name=small)
(Feel free to say I'm being unfair in calling these people fascists.)

Now Morales is back and Uncle Sam's name is mud in that country for at least a generation. His name is mud in Venezuela, too thanks to the coup attempts against Chavez in 2002 and more recently, Maduro -and that doesn't even take into account that the intended replacement's followers are the kind of thugs who firebomb maternity wards (https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/13135) and burn black people alive, like Orlando Figueroa, who was lynched by Maduro's "opposition". (http://)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 17, 2020, 10:01:30 PM
Right now I can pull another dozen names -- and these aren't just Twatter nobodies, these are public figures with blue checkmarks who in some cases hold or have held public office -- who happily discuss how much they want to punish anyone who didn't want to vote for Joe Biden or for that matter, Hillary Clinton. This is the state of politics today in the U.S.

STOP FUCKING TELLING ME I'M IMAGINING IT.
Fuck this, I tried.

I never told you you imagined anything, BTW. I said you took a lot of things, combined them, and then attacked other people as if they were that thing.
And yet you still don't HEAR a damn thing I say. But that's par for the course.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 17, 2020, 10:06:06 PM
If you want to know the answer: "Overall, we rate The Buffalo Chronicle Questionable based on far-right-wing bias, a complete lack of transparency, promotion of propaganda/conspiracy theories, and several failed fact checks." https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-buffalo-chronicle/ (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-buffalo-chronicle/)
Aww, you trotted out Dave Van Zandt's pet website!

I guess he recovered from getting hit with that C&D order, though. Snort.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 17, 2020, 10:17:39 PM
Right now I can pull another dozen names -- and these aren't just Twatter nobodies, these are public figures with blue checkmarks who in some cases hold or have held public office -- who happily discuss how much they want to punish anyone who didn't want to vote for Joe Biden or for that matter, Hillary Clinton. This is the state of politics today in the U.S.

STOP FUCKING TELLING ME I'M IMAGINING IT.
Fuck this, I tried.

I never told you you imagined anything, BTW. I said you took a lot of things, combined them, and then attacked other people as if they were that thing.
And yet you still don't HEAR a damn thing I say. But that's par for the course.
You're imagining it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on November 17, 2020, 10:42:04 PM
In any event, it's hard to take seriously an article that refers to the late Hugo Chavez as a "dictator" when he was legitimately elected and made it a point not to crush his enemies -even after they tried at least one putsch against him.
That's not a very good argument. Hitler, of all people, rose to power in a legitimate election. Plenty of dictators use democratic means to acquire power; the defining characteristic is how they change rules or use extralegal means to ensure they stay in power. And Chavez not only changed the Constitution and packed the courts to maintain his hold, he even started his career as part of a failed military coup. Venezuela never became fully authoritarian under his rule, but it was on the border.

That's a slippery way of wording it. Hitler was trounced in the 1932 presidential election by Hindenburg, but got the chancellorship in a corrupt bargain when the German establishment (landowners, bankers, industrialists, etc) decided to back him and put him over. So no, Hitler was never elected. He got the job in a backroom deal.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 17, 2020, 11:52:22 PM
In any event, it's hard to take seriously an article that refers to the late Hugo Chavez as a "dictator" when he was legitimately elected and made it a point not to crush his enemies -even after they tried at least one putsch against him.
That's not a very good argument. Hitler, of all people, rose to power in a legitimate election. Plenty of dictators use democratic means to acquire power; the defining characteristic is how they change rules or use extralegal means to ensure they stay in power. And Chavez not only changed the Constitution and packed the courts to maintain his hold, he even started his career as part of a failed military coup. Venezuela never became fully authoritarian under his rule, but it was on the border.

That's a slippery way of wording it. Hitler was trounced in the 1932 presidential election by Hindenburg, but got the chancellorship in a corrupt bargain when the German establishment (landowners, bankers, industrialists, etc) decided to back him and put him over. So no, Hitler was never elected. He got the job in a backroom deal.
Hmm... You sure know alot about NAZIS. Are they part of your interests? Conflict Simulations? Just wondering...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 18, 2020, 12:04:54 AM
I pushed back correcting rawma when he claimed that Veritas hadn't posted their video.

To be more accurate, I said no recording on the page linked to, since I could only find there the claim that it existed, and I joked that it was a rickroll failure. I acknowledged your providing links but neither link you gave appears to be on the page that was linked to. If Brad wants to put forward some evidence, he should link to the evidence, not to some conservative website that simply asserts that the evidence exists. You are generally even-handed (if it seems not so to conservatives, it's because reality has a well known liberal bias) but you shouldn't misrepresent what I said to boost your both-sides credentials.

I'm still not gonna waste two hours on anything edited by Project Veritas. But the link below suggests that the recording doesn't add anything to the story prior to that, but adds that the total of "late arriving but postmarked by Nov 3rd" ballots in Pennsylvania were only around 10,000 (not enough to swing the state; I don't even know if they were even counted yet). Further, Erie had only 129 such and the whistleblower's facility had only 2 of these.

https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/did-a-postal-worker-witness-ballot

EDITED TO ADD: jhkim, care to acknowledge my correction of you? https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1151983/?topicseen#msg1151983
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 18, 2020, 12:09:05 AM
The reason it’s gaslighting is because what “principled liberals” here react to, is someone to their right making a hyperbolic statement - but not someone to their left.

Jhkim and Mercurius will ask those to the right of them to moderate and to please not become overly partisan.  If hard leftists post similarly from farther to their left, that is directly replied to to a much lesser degree.

In recent times, I agreed with shuddemell in his link condemning extremist leftist threats. I pushed back correcting rawma when he claimed that Veritas hadn't posted their video. I agreed in calling Maduro a dictator.

I more often respond against right-wing talk - but on this forum, right-wing talk is much more common than left-wing talk. There's isn't anyone on the left here who is close to the prolificness and extreme language of SHARK's rants, or extreme claims to the level of RandyB or consolcwby citing over 30 million fraudulent votes. We have had some extreme left here in the past - Biscuitician was an extreme left-wing poster, for example. But in general, I'm responding to the frequency and extremism of posts.

In left-wing circles, I find I'm often considered a pain-in-the-ass and possibly a traitor for my positions.

I know how you feel. To my lefty friends I am close to a fascist for defending Republicans and calling out people who try to perpetuate caricatures of Republicans or conservatives.

To my right wing friends I am a leftist liberal Californian because I didn't vote for Trump. Nevermind that Trump wasn't much of a conservative and has little resemblance to Bob Dole, George Bush Sr. George Bush Jr., John McCain, and Mitt Romney (all of whom I voted for) in terms of key policy issues like globalism, trade wars, and foreign policy.

Being a radical moderate is hard, mang!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 18, 2020, 12:19:21 AM
Plus, at least from my perspective, criticizing left wing posters on this site often feels like dogpiling, because every post they make often gets a half a dozen impassioned replies. In that case, ducking out isn't tacit agreement, it's just politeness because they're already being hammered.

I think we're lucky to have the few voices of opposition we have, excepting the ones who just do it to troll. If someone's going to argue a point effectively, they need to be able to address criticism. Some posters are better at this than others.

When people on this forum dare say they didn't vote for Trump, knowing they are outnumbered 10 to 1, calling them trolls makes it even harder. I've never trolled here once, but people here have accused me of it purely based on my disagreeing. And damn dude, you know how hard it is to "address criticism" when every post of yours gets a massive number of long detailed responses? No, you don't, at least not here. Because you outnumber the "opposition" ten to one. Cut people some fucking slack when you know you have them so outnumbered.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 18, 2020, 12:22:17 AM
Lillyhammer is about an american gangster who gets witness relocated to Norway (no way in hell I see that happening) and the resulting culture clash is hilarious.   

Lillyhammer is great. I was sad when it was canceled. It was one of the first full shows I watched on Netflix that wasn't a rerun to me, years ago.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 18, 2020, 12:22:56 AM
And just so we don't make this the 'Ghostmaker takes on all comers' thread, here's some more meat:

https://buffalochronicle.com/2020/11/14/exclusive-how-a-philly-mob-boss-stole-the-election-and-why-he-may-flip-on-joe-biden/

I have no idea if the Buffalo Chronicle is any good or is another Daily Mail, but holy shit, the brass balls on this son of a bitch if this is true.

Then there is this to consider...
https://controller.phila.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/VOTING-TECHNOLOGY-PROCUREMENT-INVESTIGATION-PUBLIC.pdf
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 18, 2020, 12:39:48 AM
I don’t give Rawma any guff; he wears the colors of the opposition openly.

I am enjoying the current thread immensely, as I enjoyed the recent election outcome, and I support President-elect Biden and Vice-President-elect Harris in the work of their coming administration. But I am quite willing to listen to the non-crazy conservatives.

PS. Small r, as in rawma. Thank you!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 18, 2020, 12:41:15 AM
So it begins... Biden is going to work now protecting the swamp critters.

https://twitter.com/marwilliamson/status/1328824764421509120
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 18, 2020, 01:13:13 AM

That's a slippery way of wording it. Hitler was trounced in the 1932 presidential election by Hindenburg, but got the chancellorship in a corrupt bargain when the German establishment (landowners, bankers, industrialists, etc) decided to back him and put him over. So no, Hitler was never elected. He got the job in a backroom deal.
It's an exactly precise way of wording it. Hindenberg won the presidency, but the Nazis were in ascendance and later that year became the largest bloc in the Reichstag. The position of Chancellor was appointed by the President, who choose Hitler. That's how parliamentary systems work; positions are granted as part of a negotiation to share power when forming a coalition. It's not a direct election for a specific position, but it's still a democratic system based on free elections.

Hindenberg later died and Hitler assumed the powers of both positions, but that's just succession combined with a dictatorial consolidation of power.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 18, 2020, 01:32:10 AM
Nevermind that Trump wasn't much of a conservative and has little resemblance to Bob Dole, George Bush Sr. George Bush Jr., John McCain, and Mitt Romney

Quite true. Trump is the only person on that list who put America first.

But I am quite willing to listen to the non-crazy conservatives.

The cucks on their knees will be happy to have somebody to talk to!

As for me, I couldn't give a shit about leftists "listening" or "discussing" because I do not seek any common ground nor any future where involving compromise nor any civility whatsoever.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 02:18:00 AM
Greetings!

Get ready for endless fucking Liberal tears.

No evidence of fraud, my ass.

Choke on it, bitches.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 18, 2020, 02:37:15 AM


I think that's out of date. The canvassing board for Wayne County was deadlocked 2-2 in a party line vote around 6 pm, but they got swamped by denouncers in Zoom, and voted again at 9 pm. The second vote was unanimous in favor of approving the results, on the condition that the Michigan Secretary of State's office conduct an audit of the precincts where the number of ballots cast doesn't match the number of people who signed into the polling locations to vote.

Sounce: WSJ article, updated 11/17, 11:28 pm.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/michigan-ballot-count-uncertain-after-board-action-11605660687
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Koltar on November 18, 2020, 02:40:12 AM
There is and was ongoing fraud.

 In several places it was rigged.

First false or stolen election in my lifetime.

I am dreading January because I really think intense rioting or a "Lite"Civil War will happen.

-Ed C
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 02:45:47 AM
Nevermind that Trump wasn't much of a conservative and has little resemblance to Bob Dole, George Bush Sr. George Bush Jr., John McCain, and Mitt Romney

Quite true. Trump is the only person on that list who put America first.

But I am quite willing to listen to the non-crazy conservatives.

The cucks on their knees will be happy to have somebody to talk to!

As for me, I couldn't give a shit about leftists "listening" or "discussing" because I do not seek any common ground nor any future where involving compromise nor any civility whatsoever.

Greetings!

Dayum right, brother!

Bush Sr, was fucking weak and not really Conservative. Bob Dole, he also was weak. Bush Jr, well, he seemed ok to begin with, but his deeper allegiance to Globalism revealed his ultimate weakness in not really being a Conservative. John Mcain? Give me a fucking break. His whole political career he spent much of the time on his fucking knees gulping down Liberal compromising jello. I remember when he first ran for president--virtually every Conservative commentator reviewed his constant compromising and cock-sucking while in office, and how terrible a candidate he was. Mitt fucking Romney? Oh, geesus. Talk about a mushy, swarmy, cock-sucking corporate Globalist. He wasn't Conservative at all. His subsequent behavior has shown him to be nothing more than a total cuck.

President Donald Trump has been fierce and rock-solid as a Conservative, populist candidate. His support of the 2nd Amendment and Gun Rights, his stand against fucking abortion, his championing of religious freedom, his resistance to SJW's and Socialism, his attacks on government regulations and promoting business and entrepreneurship, implementation of Opportunity Zones, cutting Taxes, renegotiating international diplomatic treaties, throwing out terrible trade deals, standing against Communist China, Pulling back American forces around the world and avoiding more foreign wars, his political stance against fucking Globalism, his championing of a revamping of American Immigration policy and standing against Illegal Immigration, and on and on. A whole raft of solid, strong, Conservative, Pro-America policies and initiatives.

Anyone who doesn't think President Donald Trump has been a champion of Conservatism and Pro America is simply delusional.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 02:49:31 AM


I think that's out of date. The canvassing board for Wayne County was deadlocked 2-2 in a party line vote around 6 pm, but they got swamped by denouncers in Zoom, and voted again at 9 pm. The second vote was unanimous in favor of approving the results, on the condition that the Michigan Secretary of State's office conduct an audit of the precincts where the number of ballots cast doesn't match the number of people who signed into the polling locations to vote.

Sounce: WSJ article, updated 11/17, 11:28 pm.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/michigan-ballot-count-uncertain-after-board-action-11605660687

Greetings!

Really, Pat? Holy Fuck! My YouTube Newsfeed thingy said the Hodgetwins video was *just two hours ago*. Geesus. Changes by the hour! Well, fuck. It was recent as far as I knew. Damn!

Who knows what will happen.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 18, 2020, 02:53:34 AM
Greetings!

Really, Pat? Holy Fuck! My YouTube Newsfeed thingy said the Hodgetwins video was *just two hours ago*. Geesus. Changes by the hour! Well, fuck. It was recent as far as I knew. Damn!

Who knows what will happen.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
It made me do a double take. I had read the WSJ article a few hours ago, went back to check something after you posted the link, and the entire article had changed.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Luca on November 18, 2020, 03:30:33 AM
I must reluctantly conceed that America is an Empire, but as a citizen of the Country of America, I have to agree that, as much as I like Korma, if I wanted to live in India, I'd move to Mumbai, just to pick one of the many possible provinces of Empire currently influencing our local politics.  The solution seems quite obvious to me: End the Empire.  Pull the warships back, close the foreign bases, and stop tossing MOABs around like they were fourth of july fireworks.  I do not care of the Hutus and Tutsis are slaughtering each other with machetes. I don't care which tribe rules Yemen, or if Iran or Turkey gets to play kingmaker in the Middle East. I don't care if China plants a flag on a god damn glorified sand bar in the South China Sea, or if Japan bombs Beijing because they are pissed that their flag isn't flying over said glorified Sandbar. Let them murder each other, or not.

The moment you stop being an empire, the dollar stops being the world's currency.
The moment the dollar stops being the world's currency, the USA default on their national debt.
The moment the USA default, your quality of life goes down the drain.

A significant portion of your standard of living is linked to the massive economic advantage of being the world's first superpower. Once that goes, so your standard of living is going to drop.

Also, isolationism works only until the world comes knocking to your door. Ask Bush.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 18, 2020, 03:55:53 AM
The USA doesn't need to play world police to remain an economic superpower.

The less blood and treasure we spend on foreign misadventures, the more we can enhance quality of life at home and invest in new technologies. 9/11 did not do an ounce of damage compared to the two decades of useless wars ever since 2001.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 18, 2020, 04:04:32 AM
First false or stolen election in my lifetime.

If Sidney Powell has the evidence she claims she has, and if she can prove the crimes and fraud she claims she can, then we're going to learn that more than one election has been stolen.

I am dreading January because I really think intense rioting or a "Lite"Civil War will happen.

I wonder about Trump's response to riots during his 2nd term (assuming Sidney Powell can save America). Trump is pro-states rights but often because he wants businesses and non-leftists to leave blue states and blue cities as the juxtaposition between how red and blue areas handle rioting is quite stark.

It's also a question if whether the Democrats will find riots useful or not. This summer, they refused the National Guard, but if the rioters aren't valuable anymore, I suspect the Democrats will have the riots crushed. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 18, 2020, 07:09:43 AM


I think that's out of date. The canvassing board for Wayne County was deadlocked 2-2 in a party line vote around 6 pm, but they got swamped by denouncers in Zoom, and voted again at 9 pm. The second vote was unanimous in favor of approving the results, on the condition that the Michigan Secretary of State's office conduct an audit of the precincts where the number of ballots cast doesn't match the number of people who signed into the polling locations to vote.

Sounce: WSJ article, updated 11/17, 11:28 pm.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/michigan-ballot-count-uncertain-after-board-action-11605660687

Greetings!

Really, Pat? Holy Fuck! My YouTube Newsfeed thingy said the Hodgetwins video was *just two hours ago*. Geesus. Changes by the hour! Well, fuck. It was recent as far as I knew. Damn!

Who knows what will happen.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Don't feel too bad about that one, Shark. That one practically changed at the last minute, and they had to agree to a comprehensive audit just to certify (honestly, I'd have held out for the audit FIRST, before certifying, but eh, such is life).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 18, 2020, 08:03:47 AM
I must reluctantly conceed that America is an Empire, but as a citizen of the Country of America, I have to agree that, as much as I like Korma, if I wanted to live in India, I'd move to Mumbai, just to pick one of the many possible provinces of Empire currently influencing our local politics.  The solution seems quite obvious to me: End the Empire.  Pull the warships back, close the foreign bases, and stop tossing MOABs around like they were fourth of july fireworks.  I do not care of the Hutus and Tutsis are slaughtering each other with machetes. I don't care which tribe rules Yemen, or if Iran or Turkey gets to play kingmaker in the Middle East. I don't care if China plants a flag on a god damn glorified sand bar in the South China Sea, or if Japan bombs Beijing because they are pissed that their flag isn't flying over said glorified Sandbar. Let them murder each other, or not.

The moment you stop being an empire, the dollar stops being the world's currency.
The moment the dollar stops being the world's currency, the USA default on their national debt.
The moment the USA default, your quality of life goes down the drain.

A significant portion of your standard of living is linked to the massive economic advantage of being the world's first superpower. Once that goes, so your standard of living is going to drop.

Also, isolationism works only until the world comes knocking to your door. Ask Bush.

   The USA is not the world's first superpower, it just happens to be the only one right now.  But China is pushing on that. As for the empire parts, correct and If the default comes towards reality, expect a large scale war to pop off.  It is the 1 product the USA does love to export all the time.  I would prefer the standard crash, the USA be forced to look to matters in its own borders and end all foreign adventures.   I think I want a great reset too, just not the one Klaus-bond-villain is looking for.  Let states separate out and govern themselves and we move forward without me having to guess how many of the dollars I pay to the Feds fed some idiot too useless to work, or bought a bomb that killed some random kid standing too close to the wrong building.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Abraxus on November 18, 2020, 08:40:14 AM
When people on this forum dare say they didn't vote for Trump, knowing they are outnumbered 10 to 1, calling them trolls makes it even harder. I've never trolled here once, but people here have accused me of it purely based on my disagreeing. And damn dude, you know how hard it is to "address criticism" when every post of yours gets a massive number of long detailed responses? No, you don't, at least not here. Because you outnumber the "opposition" ten to one. Cut people some fucking slack when you know you have them so outnumbered.

Oh please unlike other posters here your called a troll and disingenuous because you go out of your way to do both. Not because your disagree with others. In the gaming forum in the Thirty Sword Lesbian thread you knew full well how some posters felt about the rpg. Then came into the thread pretending to be both naive and clueless about it. Even when you knew full well how some of use felt about the rpg. So if your going to pretend to be naive and stupid on purpose then expect to be called both a troll and disingenuous on this board and others. Espcially if you can't be bothered to actual read the thread in question.

So stop with the martyr and victim complex because your not fooling anyone here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 18, 2020, 08:52:03 AM
Oh please unlike other posters here your called a troll and disingenuous because you go out of your way to do both. Not because your disagree with others. In the gaming forum in the Thirty Sword Lesbian thread you knew full well how some posters felt about the rpg. Then came into the thread pretending to be both naive and clueless about it. Even when you knew full well how some of use felt about the rpg. So if your going to pretend to be naive and stupid on purpose then expect to be called both a troll and disingenuous on this board and others. Espcially if you can't be bothered to actual read the thread in question.

So stop with the martyr and victim complex because your not fooling anyone here.

I honestly think you need to follow your own advice and put Mistwell into the ignore list.  Your feeding the trolls at this point and Mistwell isn't a honest person.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on November 18, 2020, 09:35:30 AM

The moment you stop being an empire, the dollar stops being the world's currency.
The moment the dollar stops being the world's currency, the USA default on their national debt.
The moment the USA default, your quality of life goes down the drain.

A significant portion of your standard of living is linked to the massive economic advantage of being the world's first superpower. Once that goes, so your standard of living is going to drop.




The standard of living for the average American has been dropping steadily since 1976, at least as measured in real income.  We've been outrunning a massive correction on debt for even longer.  If there must be a collapse (and really, there must. That which cannot stand will not stand and all that), why not combine that with the added benefit of ending our Imperial ambitions?


Quote
Also, isolationism works only until the world comes knocking to your door. Ask Bush.

Actually, a very solid argument could be made that 9/11, which i must assume you are alluding to, was the result of Imperial Policies. The Mujahadeen that trained Bin Laden were funded by American Imperialists, the inspirational moment that triggered his desire to destroy skyscrapers was seeing Americans bomb towers in the Middle East, and the hijackers trained in American piloting schools and hijacked plains from American airports... both of which were made possible by an Imperial border policy that views all members of the Imperial Provinces (in this case, Saudi Arabia) as having full rights in Rome, so to speak.

Tell me exactly how Bush, either Bush, was following Isolationist policies? 


I'll mention one other benefit, a purely personal one I suppose, to getting out of the Empire business.  I hate hearing people... foreigners under the Country model or Provincials under the Empire model... bitch about the American Empire, and how much they want us to just Go Away and Leave them Alone.  I LOVE giving people what they ask for, especially if I know they'll bitch about getting exactly what they asked for.    It isn't quite Schadenfreude, but some species of close relative. I'm SURE the Germans have a word for it. I mean, fuck: They've got a measurement based on mosquito dicks.  Their dedication to producing awesome words is inspiring. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 18, 2020, 10:08:36 AM
The standard of living for the average American has been dropping steadily since 1976, at least as measured in real income.  We've been outrunning a massive correction on debt for even longer.  If there must be a collapse (and really, there must. That which cannot stand will not stand and all that), why not combine that with the added benefit of ending our Imperial ambitions?
That's not quite true. The standard of living, as defined by inflation-adjusted compensation, has improved since the 1970s. And that underestimates the real improvement in the standard of living, because metrics like the consumer price index only track changes in price, and don't account for all the improvements in quality or value. For instance, even if a car in 2020 costs the same in inflation-adjusted dollars as a car from 1980, the newer car is more efficient, safer, and has many new features. This is especially true when it comes to technology, but applies to nearly all consumer products. The average person in 2020 has more and better stuff than their equivalent in 1980.

The qualification is that inflation-adjusted wages haven't improved that much. As curves go, it's pretty flat. And that's over the same period where measures of the overall economy, like the gross domestic product, have been growing at a pretty solid rate. That's because the growth has been going into other sectors, like the capital industries. The stock market, for instance, has grown at a rate that drastically outstrips the growth in wages. Which is a big part of the reason why the rich have been getting richer.

So while we're better off than we were in the 1970s, it can feel like the average worker is falling behind. That's because they are. The workers haven't shared fully in the economy growth. Their slice is bigger in overall terms, but it's a smaller part of the overall pie.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 18, 2020, 10:27:22 AM
Greetings!

Get ready for endless fucking Liberal tears.

No evidence of fraud, my ass.

Choke on it, bitches.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I am not trying to be insulting when I say this but I suspect it will come across that way.

SHARK my friend, you don't see what you look like to others anymore.

How did you not see this wasn't the "Holy shit I was right and you were wrong Trump won!" in the moment? My man, why are you not holding yourself at least as accountable for falling for click bait on YouTube as you'd hold others?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 18, 2020, 10:44:17 AM


If Sidney Powell has the evidence she claims she has, and if she can prove the crimes and fraud she claims she can, then we're going to learn that more than one election has been stolen.

She doesn't have any evidence. Powell is trying to get her own TV show, on NewsMax or whatever network Trump decides to run after he leaves office. She's also trying to sell you her books.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 18, 2020, 10:48:49 AM
When people on this forum dare say they didn't vote for Trump, knowing they are outnumbered 10 to 1, calling them trolls makes it even harder. I've never trolled here once, but people here have accused me of it purely based on my disagreeing. And damn dude, you know how hard it is to "address criticism" when every post of yours gets a massive number of long detailed responses? No, you don't, at least not here. Because you outnumber the "opposition" ten to one. Cut people some fucking slack when you know you have them so outnumbered.

Oh please unlike other posters here your called a troll and disingenuous because you go out of your way to do both. Not because your disagree with others. In the gaming forum in the Thirty Sword Lesbian thread you knew full well how some posters felt about the rpg. Then came into the thread pretending to be both naive and clueless about it. Even when you knew full well how some of use felt about the rpg. So if your going to pretend to be naive and stupid on purpose then expect to be called both a troll and disingenuous on this board and others. Espcially if you can't be bothered to actual read the thread in question.

So stop with the martyr and victim complex because your not fooling anyone here.

No man, you're so surrounded by people who think exactly like you do on those kinds of topics you cannot even imagine that I don't assume people think like that. I was not trolling. I was giving you my honest opinion, but my opinion was so far from your bubble you cannot imagine it was honest because you don't see opinions like those in your life these days.

I am no victim or martyr. My comment about being a radical moderate was a joke. Which you would have gotten if, again, you had more experience outside your bubble. It is true however that you should be cutting people slack when you outnumber them 10 to 1 in the "responding" to everything in a comprehensive way. Not because when you are similarly situated it's what you would reasonably ask of others.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 18, 2020, 10:50:49 AM
Oh please unlike other posters here your called a troll and disingenuous because you go out of your way to do both. Not because your disagree with others. In the gaming forum in the Thirty Sword Lesbian thread you knew full well how some posters felt about the rpg. Then came into the thread pretending to be both naive and clueless about it. Even when you knew full well how some of use felt about the rpg. So if your going to pretend to be naive and stupid on purpose then expect to be called both a troll and disingenuous on this board and others. Espcially if you can't be bothered to actual read the thread in question.

So stop with the martyr and victim complex because your not fooling anyone here.

I honestly think you need to follow your own advice and put Mistwell into the ignore list.  Your feeding the trolls at this point and Mistwell isn't a honest person.

It's OK that you cannot handle dissent. Not everyone is built for it. But, I am honest and not trolling. You call people trolls who dissent from your view. Because you want this place to be just one groupthink. It's your comfort zone. You don't deal well with the concept that your worldview isn't universal. Others do though.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 18, 2020, 11:30:24 AM
I really think intense rioting or a "Lite"Civil War will happen.

-Ed C
The real question is, will you be shouting "Tastes Great" or "Less Filling" when that time comes?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 18, 2020, 11:55:10 AM
The moment you stop being an empire, the dollar stops being the world's currency.
The moment the dollar stops being the world's currency, the USA default on their national debt.
The moment the USA default, your quality of life goes down the drain.

A significant portion of your standard of living is linked to the massive economic advantage of being the world's first superpower. Once that goes, so your standard of living is going to drop.

Also, isolationism works only until the world comes knocking to your door. Ask Bush.

This is old news. This has already happened.
https://www.gradingstates.org/the-real-path-to-state-prosperity/sharing-the-gains/

https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/121e5a80-61e2-4c65-aa25-a06a1c0887d5/reich-testimony.pdf
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 18, 2020, 11:58:18 AM
That's not quite true. The standard of living, as defined by inflation-adjusted compensation, has improved since the 1970s. And that underestimates the real improvement in the standard of living, because metrics like the consumer price index only track changes in price, and don't account for all the improvements in quality or value. For instance, even if a car in 2020 costs the same in inflation-adjusted dollars as a car from 1980, the newer car is more efficient, safer, and has many new features. This is especially true when it comes to technology, but applies to nearly all consumer products. The average person in 2020 has more and better stuff than their equivalent in 1980.

The qualification is that inflation-adjusted wages haven't improved that much. As curves go, it's pretty flat. And that's over the same period where measures of the overall economy, like the gross domestic product, have been growing at a pretty solid rate. That's because the growth has been going into other sectors, like the capital industries. The stock market, for instance, has grown at a rate that drastically outstrips the growth in wages. Which is a big part of the reason why the rich have been getting richer.

So while we're better off than we were in the 1970s, it can feel like the average worker is falling behind. That's because they are. The workers haven't shared fully in the economy growth. Their slice is bigger in overall terms, but it's a smaller part of the overall pie.

The standard of living hasn't improved in my family, if anything it is noticeably reduced. Not sure what you are on about here. Have you tried buying good quality clothing lately. Just start with that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on November 18, 2020, 01:13:09 PM

So while we're better off than we were in the 1970s, it can feel like the average worker is falling behind. That's because they are. The workers haven't shared fully in the economy growth. Their slice is bigger in overall terms, but it's a smaller part of the overall pie.

Adjusted for Inflation from 1952 the average home price has risen 3.5 times. The cost of the average car has doubled, as have stamps, while college tuition has risen eight times.  Food is a mixed bag, and has mostly remained stable.

Meanwhile, average incomes have fallen to HALF. 


I'm sorry, but halved income and doubling or more of necessities such as homes, is not 'a bigger slice'.   If I have to work SEVEN TIMES as hard just to keep a roof over my head compared to the previous generation, then by no fucking definition am I doing better.  By no definition am I doing 'the same'. 

I'll remind you that the first fundamental principle of survival is shelter. Its also the base of the heirarchy of needs. This isn't some pissant nuisance like the cost of a fucking iPhone, or the price of gas (Mostly stable, 1% increase).

Pull the other one, its got bells.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 18, 2020, 01:18:21 PM

Adjusted for Inflation from 1952 the average home price has risen 3.5 times. The cost of the average car has doubled, as have stamps, while college tuition has risen eight times.  Food is a mixed bag, and has mostly remained stable.

Meanwhile, average incomes have fallen to HALF. 


I'm sorry, but halved income and doubling or more of necessities such as homes, is not 'a bigger slice'.   If I have to work SEVEN TIMES as hard just to keep a roof over my head compared to the previous generation, then by no fucking definition am I doing better.  By no definition am I doing 'the same'. 

I'll remind you that the first fundamental principle of survival is shelter. Its also the base of the heirarchy of needs. This isn't some pissant nuisance like the cost of a fucking iPhone, or the price of gas (Mostly stable, 1% increase).

Pull the other one, its got bells.
Ah, but Spike, the intentions were all good. What does it matter if the results of decades of financial-government fuckery are to screw things up even worse?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 18, 2020, 01:37:28 PM
The standard of living for the average American has been dropping steadily since 1976, at least as measured in real income.  We've been outrunning a massive correction on debt for even longer.  If there must be a collapse (and really, there must. That which cannot stand will not stand and all that), why not combine that with the added benefit of ending our Imperial ambitions?
That's not quite true. The standard of living, as defined by inflation-adjusted compensation, has improved since the 1970s. And that underestimates the real improvement in the standard of living, because metrics like the consumer price index only track changes in price, and don't account for all the improvements in quality or value. For instance, even if a car in 2020 costs the same in inflation-adjusted dollars as a car from 1980, the newer car is more efficient, safer, and has many new features. This is especially true when it comes to technology, but applies to nearly all consumer products. The average person in 2020 has more and better stuff than their equivalent in 1980.

The qualification is that inflation-adjusted wages haven't improved that much. As curves go, it's pretty flat. And that's over the same period where measures of the overall economy, like the gross domestic product, have been growing at a pretty solid rate. That's because the growth has been going into other sectors, like the capital industries. The stock market, for instance, has grown at a rate that drastically outstrips the growth in wages. Which is a big part of the reason why the rich have been getting richer.

So while we're better off than we were in the 1970s, it can feel like the average worker is falling behind. That's because they are. The workers haven't shared fully in the economy growth. Their slice is bigger in overall terms, but it's a smaller part of the overall pie.

I think that the more important metric is that Americans are working longer hours and are falling more in debt simply in order to get the basics of a house, car, and food. Yes, they can buy a lot more and better consumer goods. Now their TV is HD, and they have smartphones instead of landlines, their cars have airbags and GPS, and so forth. But I question how well that measures actual quality of life. Some advancements are great, but some seem to just make people more miserable. More addictive designer drugs and social media, for example.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Spike, whom I largely agree with on this point.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 18, 2020, 01:41:47 PM
When people on this forum dare say they didn't vote for Trump, knowing they are outnumbered 10 to 1, calling them trolls makes it even harder. I've never trolled here once, but people here have accused me of it purely based on my disagreeing. And damn dude, you know how hard it is to "address criticism" when every post of yours gets a massive number of long detailed responses? No, you don't, at least not here. Because you outnumber the "opposition" ten to one. Cut people some fucking slack when you know you have them so outnumbered.

Oh please unlike other posters here your called a troll and disingenuous because you go out of your way to do both. Not because your disagree with others. In the gaming forum in the Thirty Sword Lesbian thread you knew full well how some posters felt about the rpg. Then came into the thread pretending to be both naive and clueless about it. Even when you knew full well how some of use felt about the rpg. So if your going to pretend to be naive and stupid on purpose then expect to be called both a troll and disingenuous on this board and others. Espcially if you can't be bothered to actual read the thread in question.

So stop with the martyr and victim complex because your not fooling anyone here.

No man, you're so surrounded by people who think exactly like you do on those kinds of topics you cannot even imagine that I don't assume people think like that. I was not trolling. I was giving you my honest opinion, but my opinion was so far from your bubble you cannot imagine it was honest because you don't see opinions like those in your life these days.

Then you are, at best, an inconsiderate poster who jumps into a discussion not more than a few days old and doesn't bother to find out what people already have said, and starts thrashing strawmen.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 18, 2020, 02:26:22 PM
[

So while we're better off than we were in the 1970s, it can feel like the average worker is falling behind. That's because they are. The workers haven't shared fully in the economy growth. Their slice is bigger in overall terms, but it's a smaller part of the overall pie.

Right.  As defined by the disposable widgets we own.  The quality of the bread and circuses.

Which other metrics are showing do not produce lasting happiness or quality of life.

An economy that is not geared towards optimizing the number of people who can live comfortably on one income, on property that they own, without the large mental overhang of substantial debt, will continue to lie with statistics
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 18, 2020, 02:42:40 PM
When people on this forum dare say they didn't vote for Trump, knowing they are outnumbered 10 to 1, calling them trolls makes it even harder. I've never trolled here once, but people here have accused me of it purely based on my disagreeing. And damn dude, you know how hard it is to "address criticism" when every post of yours gets a massive number of long detailed responses? No, you don't, at least not here. Because you outnumber the "opposition" ten to one. Cut people some fucking slack when you know you have them so outnumbered.

Oh please unlike other posters here your called a troll and disingenuous because you go out of your way to do both. Not because your disagree with others. In the gaming forum in the Thirty Sword Lesbian thread you knew full well how some posters felt about the rpg. Then came into the thread pretending to be both naive and clueless about it. Even when you knew full well how some of use felt about the rpg. So if your going to pretend to be naive and stupid on purpose then expect to be called both a troll and disingenuous on this board and others. Espcially if you can't be bothered to actual read the thread in question.

So stop with the martyr and victim complex because your not fooling anyone here.

I will say one thing for Mistwell, he is right that he has not trolled here once.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 18, 2020, 03:53:08 PM
I pushed back correcting rawma when he claimed that Veritas hadn't posted their video.

To be more accurate, I said no recording on the page linked to, since I could only find there the claim that it existed, and I joked that it was a rickroll failure. I acknowledged your providing links but neither link you gave appears to be on the page that was linked to. If Brad wants to put forward some evidence, he should link to the evidence, not to some conservative website that simply asserts that the evidence exists. You are generally even-handed (if it seems not so to conservatives, it's because reality has a well known liberal bias) but you shouldn't misrepresent what I said to boost your both-sides credentials.

I'm still not gonna waste two hours on anything edited by Project Veritas. But the link below suggests that the recording doesn't add anything to the story prior to that, but adds that the total of "late arriving but postmarked by Nov 3rd" ballots in Pennsylvania were only around 10,000 (not enough to swing the state; I don't even know if they were even counted yet). Further, Erie had only 129 such and the whistleblower's facility had only 2 of these.

https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/did-a-postal-worker-witness-ballot

I don't intend to single you out, but it sounded to me that the claim was a dig at Veritas rather than at Brad. I totally understand criticizing Veritas - there's a lot there to criticize - but if you're going to make substantial arguments against them, then you have to read them. Dismissing them without reading, and citing liberal sources isn't convincing to anyone who might believe Project Veritas in the first place.


EDITED TO ADD: jhkim, care to acknowledge my correction of you? https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1151983/?topicseen#msg1151983
Both parties have had recent opportunity to pass through meaningful election reform with undivided control.

If the Democrats thought that Republicans were hugely cheating, they could have passed election reform legislation during Obama's first two years.

If the Republicans thought that Democrats were hugely cheating, they could have passed election reform legislation during Trump's first two years and/or launched investigations to prove the fraudulent votes in 2016.


Instead, it seems that the existing system is roughly balanced between Republicans and Democrats, and neither are pushing for any major reforms - at most minor tweaks. Rather than constantly bitching only about the other side, we should fix the system.
That would require that Democrats recognized the danger 10 to 12 years ago, before the wave of Republican gerrymandering after the 2010 election. It is a mystery why the all-Republican government of 2017-2018 did not fix the problems (like shortages in the national stockpile for pandemics) the Trump administration has blamed Obama for.

But elections are run by states, not the federal government; Democrats in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania asked for changes to the vote counting to avoid the current issues by counting mailed ballots earlier, and the unrepresentative Republican legislatures refused to do so. If the mailed ballots that are counted last are mostly for Biden, it's because Trump discouraged his voters from using mailed ballots (at least in those states; Florida it was OK, for some unexplained reason).

Gerrymandering is an old and well-understood problem, though, so Democrats should have understood the danger of it. It seems to me that it wasn't a priority. I suspect it's because gerrymandering tends to help those who are ahead. So while Democrats were ahead, they felt that gerrymandering was not a major problem for them.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on November 18, 2020, 04:58:49 PM

Gerrymandering is an old and well-understood problem, though, so Democrats should have understood the danger of it. It seems to me that it wasn't a priority. I suspect it's because gerrymandering tends to help those who are ahead. So while Democrats were ahead, they felt that gerrymandering was not a major problem for them.

Gerrymandering is a bipartisan issue, much like campaign finance laws. Both parties engage in it equally because both parties benefit, or rather the benefits are less 'team jersey' stuff and more 'personal benefit'.  With Gerrymandering it essentially locks in the incumbants, as much as you can with a mostly democratic process, and it allows the parties to get rid of troublemakers by eliminating their districts (this was brought up in relation to AOC, a Democrat, and yes, I realize she is still in office).

I find it ridiculously amusing that Gerrymandering is somehow a 'republican' issue
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 05:03:38 PM
Greetings!

Get ready for endless fucking Liberal tears.

No evidence of fraud, my ass.

Choke on it, bitches.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I am not trying to be insulting when I say this but I suspect it will come across that way.

SHARK my friend, you don't see what you look like to others anymore.

How did you not see this wasn't the "Holy shit I was right and you were wrong Trump won!" in the moment? My man, why are you not holding yourself at least as accountable for falling for click bait on YouTube as you'd hold others?

Greetings!

No offense taken, Mistwell. At the time I viewed the video, I was surprised, and the video posted by the Hodge twins at the time was accurate. The news cycle thingy changes quickly, sometimes by the fucking hour, right? ;D

It was *breaking news* at the time, so I wanted to post it for people here to review.

I'm ok with some people here laughing at me or choosing to dismiss me. That's ok. Most people that come to know me know that I am generally reasonable, reliable, a lover of the truth, and passionate. I can definitely get worked up about some stuff.

I'm very concerned at how this Canvassing Board thingy changed their minds within a few hours. I don't like how this entire election has developed--and not merely because the media claims that Biden has won. It is all of the horrible details surrounding many states elections. It all seems so riddled through with fraud and corruption, and instead of being eager to engage in comprehensive audits, it seems like nearly everyone in the media and on the left--and even some Republicans--just want everyone to shut up, never mind, there's nothing to see here.

I've been involved with politics and voting for a very long time, Mistwell. Ronald Reagan, Bush Sr, Bill Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama, Trump. In my lifetime I simply have never seen a national election that had this much stench of fraud and corruption, and yet, here we are with this election full of stench, and everyone wants us to just shut up and go away.

That really bothers me, and makes me even *MORE* suspicious.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 05:07:23 PM


I think that's out of date. The canvassing board for Wayne County was deadlocked 2-2 in a party line vote around 6 pm, but they got swamped by denouncers in Zoom, and voted again at 9 pm. The second vote was unanimous in favor of approving the results, on the condition that the Michigan Secretary of State's office conduct an audit of the precincts where the number of ballots cast doesn't match the number of people who signed into the polling locations to vote.

Sounce: WSJ article, updated 11/17, 11:28 pm.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/michigan-ballot-count-uncertain-after-board-action-11605660687

Greetings!

Really, Pat? Holy Fuck! My YouTube Newsfeed thingy said the Hodgetwins video was *just two hours ago*. Geesus. Changes by the hour! Well, fuck. It was recent as far as I knew. Damn!

Who knows what will happen.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Don't feel too bad about that one, Shark. That one practically changed at the last minute, and they had to agree to a comprehensive audit just to certify (honestly, I'd have held out for the audit FIRST, before certifying, but eh, such is life).

Greetings!

Thank you, Ghostmaker! I appreciate it. Yeah, I was hoping to post something that was timely, breaking news, and crazy. I was surprised by it as well. I try, my friend!

I'm even more surprised by the swift reversal--and deeply suspicious!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 05:18:17 PM
The standard of living for the average American has been dropping steadily since 1976, at least as measured in real income.  We've been outrunning a massive correction on debt for even longer.  If there must be a collapse (and really, there must. That which cannot stand will not stand and all that), why not combine that with the added benefit of ending our Imperial ambitions?
That's not quite true. The standard of living, as defined by inflation-adjusted compensation, has improved since the 1970s. And that underestimates the real improvement in the standard of living, because metrics like the consumer price index only track changes in price, and don't account for all the improvements in quality or value. For instance, even if a car in 2020 costs the same in inflation-adjusted dollars as a car from 1980, the newer car is more efficient, safer, and has many new features. This is especially true when it comes to technology, but applies to nearly all consumer products. The average person in 2020 has more and better stuff than their equivalent in 1980.

The qualification is that inflation-adjusted wages haven't improved that much. As curves go, it's pretty flat. And that's over the same period where measures of the overall economy, like the gross domestic product, have been growing at a pretty solid rate. That's because the growth has been going into other sectors, like the capital industries. The stock market, for instance, has grown at a rate that drastically outstrips the growth in wages. Which is a big part of the reason why the rich have been getting richer.

So while we're better off than we were in the 1970s, it can feel like the average worker is falling behind. That's because they are. The workers haven't shared fully in the economy growth. Their slice is bigger in overall terms, but it's a smaller part of the overall pie.

I think that the more important metric is that Americans are working longer hours and are falling more in debt simply in order to get the basics of a house, car, and food. Yes, they can buy a lot more and better consumer goods. Now their TV is HD, and they have smartphones instead of landlines, their cars have airbags and GPS, and so forth. But I question how well that measures actual quality of life. Some advancements are great, but some seem to just make people more miserable. More addictive designer drugs and social media, for example.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Spike, whom I largely agree with on this point.

Greetings!

Excellent points, Jhkim. I agree entirely. It has been very troubling how through the years, whether it is a Republican administration or a Democrat administration, there's always more talk, but nothing really changes. It's all lies and BS.

Trump is the first President since Reagan that has actually kept his promises, and actually made REAL changes. I made more money, paid less taxes, and experienced less fees, red tape, and BS in the process of starting my business.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 18, 2020, 06:36:03 PM
I think that the more important metric is that Americans are working longer hours and are falling more in debt simply in order to get the basics of a house, car, and food. Yes, they can buy a lot more and better consumer goods. Now their TV is HD, and they have smartphones instead of landlines, their cars have airbags and GPS, and so forth. But I question how well that measures actual quality of life. Some advancements are great, but some seem to just make people more miserable. More addictive designer drugs and social media, for example.

Excellent points, Jhkim. I agree entirely. It has been very troubling how through the years, whether it is a Republican administration or a Democrat administration, there's always more talk, but nothing really changes. It's all lies and BS.

Trump is the first President since Reagan that has actually kept his promises, and actually made REAL changes. I made more money, paid less taxes, and experienced less fees, red tape, and BS in the process of starting my business.

On average, though, Americans have gone more into debt under Trump. Here's a graph from Marketwatch of consumer debt levels, for example,

(https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2019/06/19/Photos/NS/MW-HL737_consum_20190619152202_NS.png?uuid=83e3155c-92c7-11e9-8df5-9c8e992d421e)

Source: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-consumer-debt-is-now-breaching-levels-last-reached-during-the-2008-financial-crisis-2019-06-19


It seems to me that Trump's main economic approaches have been overall standard strategy for Republicans: cut taxes and cut regulations. Also like previous Republican administrations, government spending hasn't decreased, and the deficit has continued to grow. In the long-term, the trend has been household debt going up since the 1950s under both Democrat and Republican administrations. But particularly in recent times, some approaches have lead to even faster increases. The Bush administration oversaw the sharpest increase, but there was also increase under Trump.

I think that the mainstream of both Democrats and Republicans are in bed with Wall Street, and they have contributed to this trend where most Americans are doing worse and the rich are getting richer. In my mind, though, politics is always about choosing the lesser of evils. Economics is tricky, and I'm far from completely sure about it, but I have to make a judgement about what policies I feel are most believable. Regarding Republican economics - the justification I've most often seen has been that cutting taxes on the rich helps grow the economy and lifts everyone up. But what I see is that everyone isn't being raised up.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 18, 2020, 06:51:49 PM
Interesting thought experiment from Macris

https://macris.substack.com/p/trump-at-the-rubicon
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 18, 2020, 07:08:39 PM
I think that the more important metric is that Americans are working longer hours and are falling more in debt simply in order to get the basics of a house, car, and food. Yes, they can buy a lot more and better consumer goods. Now their TV is HD, and they have smartphones instead of landlines, their cars have airbags and GPS, and so forth. But I question how well that measures actual quality of life. Some advancements are great, but some seem to just make people more miserable. More addictive designer drugs and social media, for example.

Excellent points, Jhkim. I agree entirely. It has been very troubling how through the years, whether it is a Republican administration or a Democrat administration, there's always more talk, but nothing really changes. It's all lies and BS.

Trump is the first President since Reagan that has actually kept his promises, and actually made REAL changes. I made more money, paid less taxes, and experienced less fees, red tape, and BS in the process of starting my business.

On average, though, Americans have gone more into debt under Trump. Here's a graph from Marketwatch of consumer debt levels, for example,

(https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2019/06/19/Photos/NS/MW-HL737_consum_20190619152202_NS.png?uuid=83e3155c-92c7-11e9-8df5-9c8e992d421e)

Source: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-consumer-debt-is-now-breaching-levels-last-reached-during-the-2008-financial-crisis-2019-06-19


It seems to me that Trump's main economic approaches have been overall standard strategy for Republicans: cut taxes and cut regulations. Also like previous Republican administrations, government spending hasn't decreased, and the deficit has continued to grow. In the long-term, the trend has been household debt going up since the 1950s under both Democrat and Republican administrations. But particularly in recent times, some approaches have lead to even faster increases. The Bush administration oversaw the sharpest increase, but there was also increase under Trump.

I think that the mainstream of both Democrats and Republicans are in bed with Wall Street, and they have contributed to this trend where most Americans are doing worse and the rich are getting richer. In my mind, though, politics is always about choosing the lesser of evils. Economics is tricky, and I'm far from completely sure about it, but I have to make a judgement about what policies I feel are most believable. Regarding Republican economics - the justification I've most often seen has been that cutting taxes on the rich helps grow the economy and lifts everyone up. But what I see is that everyone isn't being raised up.
  Stupid people finance their recreation.  Stupid people decide to get an expensive 4 year degree instead of looking for a 2  years of technical training to make money.  Stupid people dont pay cash for cars.  Stupid people get credit cards (I would allow for saying stupid people carry a balance on credit cards).  That graph looks like Americans consistently get more and more stupid and careless with their money.  I have a feeling they got fatter under trump too, since it appears getting stupider also makes people get fatter.  Two things Americans damn sure have done since the 50's is waste a shitload of money and get fat.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 18, 2020, 07:26:31 PM
  Stupid people finance their recreation.  Stupid people decide to get an expensive 4 year degree instead of looking for a 2  years of technical training to make money.  Stupid people dont pay cash for cars.  Stupid people get credit cards (I would allow for saying stupid people carry a balance on credit cards).  That graph looks like Americans consistently get more and more stupid and careless with their money.  I have a feeling they got fatter under trump too, since it appears getting stupider also makes people get fatter.  Two things Americans damn sure have done since the 50's is waste a shitload of money and get fat.

I don't disagree that people are stupid (on average) - but to rephrase my point using your language...  It appears that people keep getting stupider, but they got stupid *faster* under Bush and Trump. It's still a question of the lesser evil.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 18, 2020, 07:28:29 PM
It is really simple economics here, if the cost of servicing your debt goes down then people will be able to afford to have more debt.

Lets pretend the interest rate is 10%, a $100k house will cost you $10k per year in interest payments.

If the interest rate is 5%, a $200k house will cost you $10k per year in interest payments.

The cost of servicing both houses is the same but magically the second example has twice as much debt.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 18, 2020, 07:34:42 PM
  Stupid people finance their recreation.  Stupid people decide to get an expensive 4 year degree instead of looking for a 2  years of technical training to make money.  Stupid people dont pay cash for cars.  Stupid people get credit cards (I would allow for saying stupid people carry a balance on credit cards).  That graph looks like Americans consistently get more and more stupid and careless with their money.  I have a feeling they got fatter under trump too, since it appears getting stupider also makes people get fatter.  Two things Americans damn sure have done since the 50's is waste a shitload of money and get fat.

I don't disagree that people are stupid (on average) - but to rephrase my point using your language...  It appears that people keep getting stupider, but they got stupid *faster* under Bush and Trump. It's still a question of the lesser evil.
  Thats because when they *think* they have more money, they act dumber.  Not rocket science.  That and greedy bankers called it quits to lending just anyone money for a while after almost sending the nation back to 1930.   Lesser evil for me is certainly people spending money they do not have  for degrees they do not get when compared to wanting dudes in the girls locker room and to push critical race theory.  I could even say here, lesser evil is not evil at all.  It is like nature, its neutral.  The tiger is there, and you get the Darwin award if you go yank its tail.  But pushing ideas like critical race theory, or putting dudes in the bathroom with my daughter...well now we are starting to push towards sending people on crusades.  The left needs to check the wind a bit better IMO.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 07:55:51 PM
Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

I would stand rock solid behind any man that felt the same--in or out of a courtroom. I don't give a fuck. There are some things that you know what? Fuck what the cock-sucking society thinks, and fuck what some cucks in government believe. You have to make a stand for what is right, no matter what the cost. Just tell the cuck judge to bring a rope, because you are not backing down, not now, not ever. Let these cuck judges try and judge against people protecting their families. See how fast they see the fucking light when shit gets burned and blood starts flowing in the streets like crazy.

That's right. We know they would shit their fucking pants and change their viewpoints very fast. A rope would be waiting for them right outside their fucking house.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 18, 2020, 08:17:22 PM
Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

Do you guys not have individual toilet stalls in the US?

All women have to cue up side by side at the toilet like the men do?

Honestly thats pretty weird.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 08:19:19 PM
Greetings!

Ahh, yes. As audits and recounts proceed, it is amazing how thousands of votes for Trump are being found--and cock-sucking Democrat election officials claim, oh, it was just an innocent clerical error.

Lying, corrupt frauds!

Biden's lead in Georgia is disappearing by the hour.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 18, 2020, 08:19:28 PM
Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

I would stand rock solid behind any man that felt the same--in or out of a courtroom. I don't give a fuck. There are some things that you know what? Fuck what the cock-sucking society thinks, and fuck what some cucks in government believe. You have to make a stand for what is right, no matter what the cost. Just tell the cuck judge to bring a rope, because you are not backing down, not now, not ever. Let these cuck judges try and judge against people protecting their families. See how fast they see the fucking light when shit gets burned and blood starts flowing in the streets like crazy.

That's right. We know they would shit their fucking pants and change their viewpoints very fast. A rope would be waiting for them right outside their fucking house.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
What a little bitch. You're all talk, asshole.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 08:21:55 PM
Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

Do you guys not have individual toilet stalls in the US?

All women have to cue up side by side at the toilet like the men do?

Honestly thats pretty weird.

Greetings!

Yeah, Shasarak, it is weird. But there's people here that want to allow trans people to use women's bathrooms. The stupid train never ends with these people.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 08:28:56 PM
Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

I would stand rock solid behind any man that felt the same--in or out of a courtroom. I don't give a fuck. There are some things that you know what? Fuck what the cock-sucking society thinks, and fuck what some cucks in government believe. You have to make a stand for what is right, no matter what the cost. Just tell the cuck judge to bring a rope, because you are not backing down, not now, not ever. Let these cuck judges try and judge against people protecting their families. See how fast they see the fucking light when shit gets burned and blood starts flowing in the streets like crazy.

That's right. We know they would shit their fucking pants and change their viewpoints very fast. A rope would be waiting for them right outside their fucking house.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
What a little bitch. You're all talk, asshole.

Greetings!

HAHAHAHA! You are a fucking moron, HappyDaze. You have no fucking clue, and you don't know me at all.

I have been in numerous situations where I have put my money where my mouth is, jackass. What the fuck do you know, pussy?

I'm stating my opinion in the above commentary. I think that having trans freaks into women's bathrooms is fucking wrong.

I also know a whole lot of men that would stand up very fast if some freak was threatening or otherwise violating their wife, their girlfriend, or their daughter for example. That's just fucking normal, you moron.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 18, 2020, 08:31:07 PM
But I am quite willing to listen to the non-crazy conservatives.

The cucks on their knees will be happy to have somebody to talk to!

As for me, I couldn't give a shit about leftists "listening" or "discussing" because I do not seek any common ground nor any future where involving compromise nor any civility whatsoever.

Happy to listen to the non-crazy conservatives; you're clearly one of the crazy ones.

(This thread's actually been less of the crazy than I expected. But a few posters are on a tear...)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 08:41:21 PM
Greetings!

Officer Brandon Tatum discusses current politics on the Tatum Report program.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 18, 2020, 08:43:22 PM
There is and was ongoing fraud.

 In several places it was rigged.

First false or stolen election in my lifetime.

Oh, born after 2000? (And every other election since forever, according to some.)  :P

Quote
I am dreading January because I really think intense rioting or a "Lite"Civil War will happen.

All I heard post-election in 2016 was how great it was that Trump was going to shake things up, and he was trying for a second term unable to say what he planned to do and with no party platform. Now you're afraid of uncertainty? Very sad.  :( :( :(
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 18, 2020, 08:45:21 PM
In the gaming forum in the Thirty Sword Lesbian thread

:o

Fortune cookie: Sometimes hindsight confirms a wise decision.

I expect that my decision to avoid the gaming forum may have been such.  ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 18, 2020, 08:52:44 PM
You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

This is getting hugely off-topic, but I will do my damndest to beat the shit out of you if you lay a finger on a kid in my house - or any other kid - just for going to the goddamn bathroom. Living in the Bay Area, I know a bunch of kids who identify as non-binary or gender fluid. This includes the family who live in the other half of my duplex, whose kid I watched grow from a baby to an awesome high school senior now. I chatted with them recently about their going to Korea next semester for study abroad, which they're excited about. It baffles and enrages me that someone would come and beat them up just for going to the bathroom. The same goes for the children of all my other family, friends, and community members.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 08:58:58 PM
You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

This is getting hugely off-topic, but I will do my damndest to beat the shit out of you if you lay a finger on a kid in my house - or any other kid - just for going to the goddamn bathroom. Living in the Bay Area, I know a bunch of kids who identify as non-binary or gender fluid. This includes the family who live in the other half of my duplex, whose kid I watched grow from a baby to an awesome high school senior now. I chatted with them recently about their going to Korea next semester for study abroad, which they're excited about. It baffles and enrages me that someone would come and beat them up just for going to the bathroom. The same goes for the children of all my other family, friends, and community members.

Greetings!

*Shrugg* Think whatever you want, Jhkim. I don't think it is right for a man get up in a fucking dress to be in a women's bathroom with women--or young girls.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 18, 2020, 08:59:34 PM
When people on this forum dare say they didn't vote for Trump, knowing they are outnumbered 10 to 1, calling them trolls makes it even harder. I've never trolled here once, but people here have accused me of it purely based on my disagreeing. And damn dude, you know how hard it is to "address criticism" when every post of yours gets a massive number of long detailed responses? No, you don't, at least not here. Because you outnumber the "opposition" ten to one. Cut people some fucking slack when you know you have them so outnumbered.

Oh please unlike other posters here your called a troll and disingenuous because you go out of your way to do both. Not because your disagree with others. In the gaming forum in the Thirty Sword Lesbian thread you knew full well how some posters felt about the rpg. Then came into the thread pretending to be both naive and clueless about it. Even when you knew full well how some of use felt about the rpg. So if your going to pretend to be naive and stupid on purpose then expect to be called both a troll and disingenuous on this board and others. Espcially if you can't be bothered to actual read the thread in question.

So stop with the martyr and victim complex because your not fooling anyone here.

No man, you're so surrounded by people who think exactly like you do on those kinds of topics you cannot even imagine that I don't assume people think like that. I was not trolling. I was giving you my honest opinion, but my opinion was so far from your bubble you cannot imagine it was honest because you don't see opinions like those in your life these days.

Then you are, at best, an inconsiderate poster who jumps into a discussion not more than a few days old and doesn't bother to find out what people already have said, and starts thrashing strawmen.

Guilty.

Welcome to Internet message boards? You think people are "considerate" here?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 09:06:31 PM
Greetings!

Officer Brandon Tatum just goes off in the program I posted above! Damn! He covers all kinds of things, smacking down weak, cuck Republicans, and corrupt fucking Democrats! Blistering!

He's funny as hell, and *Real*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 09:09:16 PM
Greetings!

Salty Cracker and his MAGA KRAKEN REEEE STREAM!

Fucking hilarious!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 18, 2020, 09:09:26 PM
Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

I would stand rock solid behind any man that felt the same--in or out of a courtroom. I don't give a fuck. There are some things that you know what? Fuck what the cock-sucking society thinks, and fuck what some cucks in government believe. You have to make a stand for what is right, no matter what the cost. Just tell the cuck judge to bring a rope, because you are not backing down, not now, not ever. Let these cuck judges try and judge against people protecting their families. See how fast they see the fucking light when shit gets burned and blood starts flowing in the streets like crazy.

That's right. We know they would shit their fucking pants and change their viewpoints very fast. A rope would be waiting for them right outside their fucking house.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I have two close friends who are trans, and one close friend whose child (near adult) is trans or at least trying to figure that question out.

None of them, and I mean none of them in any even vague possible way, would want to use a bathroom with someone else because they want to be near those other people, or leer at those other people, or even look at those other people. The issue has nothing to do with those kinds of things, for them.

All three of these people are nerdy. All three are awkward, even as adults. It's really not about sexuality for any of them. They wouldn't be in a bathroom to make anyone feel uncomfortable, or to feel anything about them. In fact, they'd all prefer to be as invisible as possible. They would just...want to go to the bathroom in peace, without anyone giving them a hassle. Without looking out of place.

I think this is one of those topics which seems one way on a theoretical basis, and seems entirely much more innocent when encountered in real life. This isn't about dirty old men trying to pose as a woman to leer at naked women in bathrooms. This is about people who, at least in my limited experience, are just awkward people who feel out of place and they want to just quietly go to the bathroom like everyone else in the place they feel they're "supposed" to be. Without making eye contact, or conversation, or being noticed really at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 18, 2020, 09:13:11 PM
Greetings!

Ahh, yes. As audits and recounts proceed, it is amazing how thousands of votes for Trump are being found--and cock-sucking Democrat election officials claim, oh, it was just an innocent clerical error.

Lying, corrupt frauds!

Biden's lead in Georgia is disappearing by the hour.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

what the heck are you talking about (https://www.wsj.com/articles/georgia-counties-hurry-to-meet-recount-deadline-11605724271)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 18, 2020, 09:18:44 PM
Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

I would stand rock solid behind any man that felt the same--in or out of a courtroom. I don't give a fuck. There are some things that you know what? Fuck what the cock-sucking society thinks, and fuck what some cucks in government believe. You have to make a stand for what is right, no matter what the cost. Just tell the cuck judge to bring a rope, because you are not backing down, not now, not ever. Let these cuck judges try and judge against people protecting their families. See how fast they see the fucking light when shit gets burned and blood starts flowing in the streets like crazy.

That's right. We know they would shit their fucking pants and change their viewpoints very fast. A rope would be waiting for them right outside their fucking house.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I have two close friends who are trans, and one close friend whose child (near adult) is trans or at least trying to figure that question out.

None of them, and I mean none of them in any even vague possible way, would want to use a bathroom with someone else because they want to be near those other people, or leer at those other people, or even look at those other people. The issue has nothing to do with those kinds of things, for them.

All three of these people are nerdy. All three are awkward, even as adults. It's really not about sexuality for any of them. They wouldn't be in a bathroom to make anyone feel uncomfortable, or to feel anything about them. In fact, they'd all prefer to be as invisible as possible. They would just...want to go to the bathroom in peace, without anyone giving them a hassle. Without looking out of place.

I think this is one of those topics which seems one way on a theoretical basis, and seems entirely much more innocent when encountered in real life. This isn't about dirty old men trying to pose as a woman to leer at naked women in bathrooms. This is about people who, at least in my limited experience, are just awkward people who feel out of place and they want to just quietly go to the bathroom like everyone else in the place they feel they're "supposed" to be. Without making eye contact, or conversation, or being noticed really at all.
  I have no issue with trans people.  BUT there are lots of gender dysphoric kids who end up not being trans after going through puberty, so the locker room for school age kids is deal breaker for me, and i mean completely broken deal.  For adults, my issue has never been trans people, its the fact it offers cover to male predators to do what male predators do.  If I have to choose between some hurt feelings or extra beatings/assaults/rapes in public restrooms, well I will take 1,000,000 hurt feelings over 1 rape.  Every time. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 18, 2020, 09:25:50 PM
Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

I would stand rock solid behind any man that felt the same--in or out of a courtroom. I don't give a fuck. There are some things that you know what? Fuck what the cock-sucking society thinks, and fuck what some cucks in government believe. You have to make a stand for what is right, no matter what the cost. Just tell the cuck judge to bring a rope, because you are not backing down, not now, not ever. Let these cuck judges try and judge against people protecting their families. See how fast they see the fucking light when shit gets burned and blood starts flowing in the streets like crazy.

That's right. We know they would shit their fucking pants and change their viewpoints very fast. A rope would be waiting for them right outside their fucking house.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I have two close friends who are trans, and one close friend whose child (near adult) is trans or at least trying to figure that question out.

None of them, and I mean none of them in any even vague possible way, would want to use a bathroom with someone else because they want to be near those other people, or leer at those other people, or even look at those other people. The issue has nothing to do with those kinds of things, for them.

All three of these people are nerdy. All three are awkward, even as adults. It's really not about sexuality for any of them. They wouldn't be in a bathroom to make anyone feel uncomfortable, or to feel anything about them. In fact, they'd all prefer to be as invisible as possible. They would just...want to go to the bathroom in peace, without anyone giving them a hassle. Without looking out of place.

I think this is one of those topics which seems one way on a theoretical basis, and seems entirely much more innocent when encountered in real life. This isn't about dirty old men trying to pose as a woman to leer at naked women in bathrooms. This is about people who, at least in my limited experience, are just awkward people who feel out of place and they want to just quietly go to the bathroom like everyone else in the place they feel they're "supposed" to be. Without making eye contact, or conversation, or being noticed really at all.
  I have no issue with trans people.  BUT there are lots of gender dysphoric kids who end up not being trans after going through puberty, so the locker room for school age kids is deal breaker for me, and i mean completely broken deal.  For adults, my issue has never been trans people, its the fact it offers cover to male predators to do what male predators do.  If I have to choose between some hurt feelings or extra beatings/assaults/rapes in public restrooms, well I will take 1,000,000 hurt feelings over 1 rape.  Every time.

But there is no evidence that it's a topic used as cover for raping/assaulting people. That seems a baseless fear. And I've never once heard someone argue it was a rational fear that a gay or lesbian person might assault a same-sex person in the bathroom, so why would you think a trans person is a higher risk for this?

As for locker rooms in schools...I honestly think that whole scene has changed regardless of this topic. The trend is for kids to not be naked around each other in schools...period. Under any circumstances.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 18, 2020, 09:28:08 PM
I'm still not gonna waste two hours on anything edited by Project Veritas. But the link below suggests that the recording doesn't add anything to the story prior to that, but adds that the total of "late arriving but postmarked by Nov 3rd" ballots in Pennsylvania were only around 10,000 (not enough to swing the state; I don't even know if they were even counted yet). Further, Erie had only 129 such and the whistleblower's facility had only 2 of these.

https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/did-a-postal-worker-witness-ballot

I don't intend to single you out, but it sounded to me that the claim was a dig at Veritas rather than at Brad. I totally understand criticizing Veritas - there's a lot there to criticize - but if you're going to make substantial arguments against them, then you have to read them. Dismissing them without reading, and citing liberal sources isn't convincing to anyone who might believe Project Veritas in the first place.

Listening to their two hour edited recording is not reading them; I read a lot of sources, including posts here. So I'm willing to read a variety of opinions on Project Veritas, and even their press releases, but the consensus about their honesty is not good. A 2 hour video is like the immense wall of text posts that I routinely skip over. The summary I link to above? That's from an apparently conservative leaning website, although the factcheck part of it may be pretty even-handed; I didn't form an opinion on that, especially since it wasn't necessary to my point.

Quote
EDITED TO ADD: jhkim, care to acknowledge my correction of you? https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1151983/?topicseen#msg1151983
Both parties have had recent opportunity to pass through meaningful election reform with undivided control.

If the Democrats thought that Republicans were hugely cheating, they could have passed election reform legislation during Obama's first two years.

If the Republicans thought that Democrats were hugely cheating, they could have passed election reform legislation during Trump's first two years and/or launched investigations to prove the fraudulent votes in 2016.


Instead, it seems that the existing system is roughly balanced between Republicans and Democrats, and neither are pushing for any major reforms - at most minor tweaks. Rather than constantly bitching only about the other side, we should fix the system.
That would require that Democrats recognized the danger 10 to 12 years ago, before the wave of Republican gerrymandering after the 2010 election. It is a mystery why the all-Republican government of 2017-2018 did not fix the problems (like shortages in the national stockpile for pandemics) the Trump administration has blamed Obama for.

But elections are run by states, not the federal government; Democrats in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania asked for changes to the vote counting to avoid the current issues by counting mailed ballots earlier, and the unrepresentative Republican legislatures refused to do so. If the mailed ballots that are counted last are mostly for Biden, it's because Trump discouraged his voters from using mailed ballots (at least in those states; Florida it was OK, for some unexplained reason).

Gerrymandering is an old and well-understood problem, though, so Democrats should have understood the danger of it. It seems to me that it wasn't a priority. I suspect it's because gerrymandering tends to help those who are ahead. So while Democrats were ahead, they felt that gerrymandering was not a major problem for them.

The scale of gerrymandering after 2010 was much greater than before; the Supreme Court jumped in to toss parts of the Voting Rights Act; Republican-controlled states passed numerous voter suppression laws, like overly strict voter ID and reducing polling places and hours, that would be difficult for federal legislation to forestall; and Republican minority legislatures have routinely acted in lame duck sessions to strip power from incoming Democratic governors. (It's a flaw that Democrats never believe that Republicans will do anything to hold power.)

How would the 111th Congress (2009-2010) have achieved any solution to a problem that they didn't know about yet? I think the Democrats made mistakes then, not least among them trying to get any cooperation from even token Republicans, and they had far more urgent issues (like dealing with the Great Recession and the promised health care legislation).

By contrast, the problems Trump inherited were generally caused by Republican intransigence in Congress; the Obama administration requested funding for the national stockpile in preparation for a pandemic, and Republicans in Congress blocked it. The Trump administration never did anything about it except to blame Obama for something they didn't fix in 2 years of full control. Democrats proposed funding for election security; the Republicans were not interested. The Republican candidate in 2016 (the guy who has never won the popular vote) ran on a platform of certainty that the election was rigged, but he and his party never proposed any legislation to address it.

Do you honestly believe your both-sides-ism, or do you just do that to get along here? I don't think either reflects well on you.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 09:29:35 PM
Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

I would stand rock solid behind any man that felt the same--in or out of a courtroom. I don't give a fuck. There are some things that you know what? Fuck what the cock-sucking society thinks, and fuck what some cucks in government believe. You have to make a stand for what is right, no matter what the cost. Just tell the cuck judge to bring a rope, because you are not backing down, not now, not ever. Let these cuck judges try and judge against people protecting their families. See how fast they see the fucking light when shit gets burned and blood starts flowing in the streets like crazy.

That's right. We know they would shit their fucking pants and change their viewpoints very fast. A rope would be waiting for them right outside their fucking house.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I have two close friends who are trans, and one close friend whose child (near adult) is trans or at least trying to figure that question out.

None of them, and I mean none of them in any even vague possible way, would want to use a bathroom with someone else because they want to be near those other people, or leer at those other people, or even look at those other people. The issue has nothing to do with those kinds of things, for them.

All three of these people are nerdy. All three are awkward, even as adults. It's really not about sexuality for any of them. They wouldn't be in a bathroom to make anyone feel uncomfortable, or to feel anything about them. In fact, they'd all prefer to be as invisible as possible. They would just...want to go to the bathroom in peace, without anyone giving them a hassle. Without looking out of place.

I think this is one of those topics which seems one way on a theoretical basis, and seems entirely much more innocent when encountered in real life. This isn't about dirty old men trying to pose as a woman to leer at naked women in bathrooms. This is about people who, at least in my limited experience, are just awkward people who feel out of place and they want to just quietly go to the bathroom like everyone else in the place they feel they're "supposed" to be. Without making eye contact, or conversation, or being noticed really at all.

Greetings!

Ok, Mistwell. Such examples as you cite seem innocent enough, but I am reminded of how I have heard about trans freaks going into women's bathrooms and fucking little girls.

Are you surprised that such examples make me think of being entirely harsh and ruthless?

Why do you think so many people get crazy about trans men wearing dresses going into women's bathrooms?

Seems like quite a normal reaction to me. Matter of fact, I know many people that are dead set against letting trans men into women's bathrooms. It's not even a subject open for discussion with them.

I think this is just yet another example of the larger cultural divide between Conservatives and Liberals. The enormous divide in how people view reality, the gender norms they embrace, and the social rules they are comfortable with and expect to be maintained. You, and Jhkim are just fine with trans men going into women's bathrooms. Well, there are lots of normal men and normal women that are not just fine with that.

Just one more difference between Liberal progressive states and Conservative states!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 18, 2020, 09:32:05 PM
Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

I would stand rock solid behind any man that felt the same--in or out of a courtroom. I don't give a fuck. There are some things that you know what? Fuck what the cock-sucking society thinks, and fuck what some cucks in government believe. You have to make a stand for what is right, no matter what the cost. Just tell the cuck judge to bring a rope, because you are not backing down, not now, not ever. Let these cuck judges try and judge against people protecting their families. See how fast they see the fucking light when shit gets burned and blood starts flowing in the streets like crazy.

That's right. We know they would shit their fucking pants and change their viewpoints very fast. A rope would be waiting for them right outside their fucking house.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I have two close friends who are trans, and one close friend whose child (near adult) is trans or at least trying to figure that question out.

None of them, and I mean none of them in any even vague possible way, would want to use a bathroom with someone else because they want to be near those other people, or leer at those other people, or even look at those other people. The issue has nothing to do with those kinds of things, for them.

All three of these people are nerdy. All three are awkward, even as adults. It's really not about sexuality for any of them. They wouldn't be in a bathroom to make anyone feel uncomfortable, or to feel anything about them. In fact, they'd all prefer to be as invisible as possible. They would just...want to go to the bathroom in peace, without anyone giving them a hassle. Without looking out of place.

I think this is one of those topics which seems one way on a theoretical basis, and seems entirely much more innocent when encountered in real life. This isn't about dirty old men trying to pose as a woman to leer at naked women in bathrooms. This is about people who, at least in my limited experience, are just awkward people who feel out of place and they want to just quietly go to the bathroom like everyone else in the place they feel they're "supposed" to be. Without making eye contact, or conversation, or being noticed really at all.
  I have no issue with trans people.  BUT there are lots of gender dysphoric kids who end up not being trans after going through puberty, so the locker room for school age kids is deal breaker for me, and i mean completely broken deal.  For adults, my issue has never been trans people, its the fact it offers cover to male predators to do what male predators do.  If I have to choose between some hurt feelings or extra beatings/assaults/rapes in public restrooms, well I will take 1,000,000 hurt feelings over 1 rape.  Every time.

But there is no evidence that it's a topic used as cover for raping/assaulting people. That seems a baseless fear. And I've never once heard someone argue it was a rational fear that a gay or lesbian person might assault a same-sex person in the bathroom, so why would you think a trans person is a higher risk for this?

As for locker rooms in schools...I honestly think that whole scene has changed regardless of this topic. The trend is for kids to not be naked around each other in schools...period. Under any circumstances.
  I do not think a trans person is.  I think it gives a person either posing as trans, or just saying they identify as such the cover.  Assaults by male predators happens now to women in public restrooms.  If the same sort of dude has an easier in to the hunting ground, why would there not be an increase.  I think you are putting words in my mouth, I have no worries about a trans person suddenly becoming a rapist.  I have concerns a rapist will use their cover to get to where he wants to go easier.    This is common sense. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 09:32:29 PM
Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

I would stand rock solid behind any man that felt the same--in or out of a courtroom. I don't give a fuck. There are some things that you know what? Fuck what the cock-sucking society thinks, and fuck what some cucks in government believe. You have to make a stand for what is right, no matter what the cost. Just tell the cuck judge to bring a rope, because you are not backing down, not now, not ever. Let these cuck judges try and judge against people protecting their families. See how fast they see the fucking light when shit gets burned and blood starts flowing in the streets like crazy.

That's right. We know they would shit their fucking pants and change their viewpoints very fast. A rope would be waiting for them right outside their fucking house.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I have two close friends who are trans, and one close friend whose child (near adult) is trans or at least trying to figure that question out.

None of them, and I mean none of them in any even vague possible way, would want to use a bathroom with someone else because they want to be near those other people, or leer at those other people, or even look at those other people. The issue has nothing to do with those kinds of things, for them.

All three of these people are nerdy. All three are awkward, even as adults. It's really not about sexuality for any of them. They wouldn't be in a bathroom to make anyone feel uncomfortable, or to feel anything about them. In fact, they'd all prefer to be as invisible as possible. They would just...want to go to the bathroom in peace, without anyone giving them a hassle. Without looking out of place.

I think this is one of those topics which seems one way on a theoretical basis, and seems entirely much more innocent when encountered in real life. This isn't about dirty old men trying to pose as a woman to leer at naked women in bathrooms. This is about people who, at least in my limited experience, are just awkward people who feel out of place and they want to just quietly go to the bathroom like everyone else in the place they feel they're "supposed" to be. Without making eye contact, or conversation, or being noticed really at all.
  I have no issue with trans people.  BUT there are lots of gender dysphoric kids who end up not being trans after going through puberty, so the locker room for school age kids is deal breaker for me, and i mean completely broken deal.  For adults, my issue has never been trans people, its the fact it offers cover to male predators to do what male predators do.  If I have to choose between some hurt feelings or extra beatings/assaults/rapes in public restrooms, well I will take 1,000,000 hurt feelings over 1 rape.  Every time.

Greetings!

EXACTLY, Ogg! I agree.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 18, 2020, 09:35:05 PM
Interesting thought experiment from Macris

https://macris.substack.com/p/trump-at-the-rubicon

That was an unsettling read. I think the Founding Fathers believed that Congress would quickly enough impeach such a lawless president, and that in general ambition would counter ambition, even if the occasional Cincinnatus would be necessary. Political parties already work against that, and the present Senate Republicans apparently lack any ambition of their own.

Thanks for the link!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 18, 2020, 09:40:45 PM
When people on this forum dare say they didn't vote for Trump, knowing they are outnumbered 10 to 1, calling them trolls makes it even harder. I've never trolled here once, but people here have accused me of it purely based on my disagreeing. And damn dude, you know how hard it is to "address criticism" when every post of yours gets a massive number of long detailed responses? No, you don't, at least not here. Because you outnumber the "opposition" ten to one. Cut people some fucking slack when you know you have them so outnumbered.

Oh please unlike other posters here your called a troll and disingenuous because you go out of your way to do both. Not because your disagree with others. In the gaming forum in the Thirty Sword Lesbian thread you knew full well how some posters felt about the rpg. Then came into the thread pretending to be both naive and clueless about it. Even when you knew full well how some of use felt about the rpg. So if your going to pretend to be naive and stupid on purpose then expect to be called both a troll and disingenuous on this board and others. Espcially if you can't be bothered to actual read the thread in question.

So stop with the martyr and victim complex because your not fooling anyone here.

No man, you're so surrounded by people who think exactly like you do on those kinds of topics you cannot even imagine that I don't assume people think like that. I was not trolling. I was giving you my honest opinion, but my opinion was so far from your bubble you cannot imagine it was honest because you don't see opinions like those in your life these days.

Then you are, at best, an inconsiderate poster who jumps into a discussion not more than a few days old and doesn't bother to find out what people already have said, and starts thrashing strawmen.

Guilty.

Welcome to Internet message boards? You think people are "considerate" here?

Nope. And note I said "at best". I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 18, 2020, 09:50:21 PM
If I have to pick hurting a tran's feelings, which normally I don't, or allow little girls to be raped by trans posers I choose the former.  Seriously this should not be a debate and shame on those that question this simple logical wisdom.

Now lets focus on the election.  How many more counties have questionable Dominion software "gliches"?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 18, 2020, 09:52:43 PM
If I have to pick hurting a tran's feelings, which normally I don't, or allow little girls to be raped by trans posers I choose the former.  Seriously this should not be a debate and shame on those that question this simple logical wisdom.

Now lets focus on the election.  How many more counties have questionable Dominion software "gliches"?
  I have no doubt they all are.  Did they switch votes? Dont know.  The bathrooms, and as I mentioned critical race theory are relevant to those machines and the vote though.  That gets pushed federally, especially in schools, and bodies are going to hit the floor.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 09:58:29 PM
Greetings!

Amacris's commentary on the Insurrection Act and Trump crossing the Rubicon is very interesting. With so much fraud, corruption, and conspiracy involved with the corrupt Democrats, invoking the Insurrection Act may be necessary to preserve the Union, and protect America from a Marxist coup.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 18, 2020, 10:00:06 PM
Let's have a reality check. We are talking about transvestites as no "trans" people exists outside of fantasy. Nothing in science can turn a boy into a girl and this societal delusion that dudes who get fake boobs magically turn into women is retarded.

But hey, it's America. I don't care what adults do to themselves as long as it doesn't affect me in the slightest, but I won't bend to anyone's delusion.

As for who's shitting where and what they do in the shitter, I'm unconcerned because if a freak wants to stalk women & kids in the girl's potty, they'll do that with or without their dick chopped off. There's no pre-emptive law that can protect restrooms from sexual predators (except perhaps open carry laws). Assault laws don't prevent anything. They just punish after the fact.

I get the concern that male predators can don a dress and slip into the bathroom, but what stopped them from doing that three decades ago? And how many big box stores REALLY monitor who goes into their shitters or how long they stay there?
 
The only solution I see is single occupant unisex bathrooms, but that's expensive and results in less bathrooms. Either that, or make all bathrooms universal and let women smell our mega-dumps and experience our awesome pee accuracy in action! 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 18, 2020, 10:04:56 PM
You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

This is getting hugely off-topic, but I will do my damndest to beat the shit out of you if you lay a finger on a kid in my house - or any other kid - just for going to the goddamn bathroom. Living in the Bay Area, I know a bunch of kids who identify as non-binary or gender fluid. This includes the family who live in the other half of my duplex, whose kid I watched grow from a baby to an awesome high school senior now. I chatted with them recently about their going to Korea next semester for study abroad, which they're excited about. It baffles and enrages me that someone would come and beat them up just for going to the bathroom. The same goes for the children of all my other family, friends, and community members.

Perfect example of disingenuous bullshit or pathological aversion to context.

Shark isn’t talking about pre-pubescents, he’s talking about potential sexual predators in a dress.  The context is clear and taking it otherwise is not signaling high INT
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 18, 2020, 10:07:44 PM
Let's have a reality check. We are talking about transvestites as no "trans" people exists outside of fantasy. Nothing in science can turn a boy into a girl and this societal delusion that dudes who get fake boobs magically turn into women is retarded.

But hey, it's America. I don't care what adults do to themselves as long as it doesn't affect me in the slightest, but I won't bend to anyone's delusion.

As for who's shitting where and what they do in the shitter, I'm unconcerned because if a freak wants to stalk women & kids in the girl's potty, they'll do that with or without their dick chopped off. There's no pre-emptive law that can protect restrooms from sexual predators (except perhaps open carry laws). Assault laws don't prevent anything. They just punish after the fact.

I get the concern that male predators can don a dress and slip into the bathroom, but what stopped them from doing that three decades ago? And how many big box stores REALLY monitor who goes into their shitters or how long they stay there?
 
The only solution I see is single occupant unisex bathrooms, but that's expensive and results in less bathrooms. Either that, or make all bathrooms universal and let women smell our mega-dumps and experience our awesome pee accuracy in action!
  The MO now is not to dress as a female, but to slip in during an off time, usually close to closing of a store or late hours in something like a public park.  Then stand on the toilet until one you "like" comes in.  Then mayhem.  I know this because of three different police officers on three different occasions over the course of those same 3 decades you mention giving me the story on recent crimes they personally investigated or were first on the scene.  If its suddenly ok for dudes to say they are women (and lets not be foolish, there will be women, who may see a dude who gives them the creeps...but will go into that bathroom anyway just not to appear phobic) the numbers will tick up, 10 percent?  20? 1? 100? I dont know.  I know its fucktarded to increase any risk at such a thing.  If it becomes a thing, well the women will have to tolerate me going into the facility with my daughter., JUST like I do with my son now, because dudes are in there with him (aka predators)  I will be polite and not drop a thunder deuce while waiting for the daughter though.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 18, 2020, 10:10:48 PM
This is from Nov 1 2017, which is one of the first Qanon (I know, I know!) posts:
"My fellow Americans, over the course of the next several days you will undoubtedly realize that we are taking back our great country (the land of the free) from the evil tyrants that wish to do us harm and destroy the last remaining refuge of shining light. On POTUS’ order, we have initiated certain fail-safes that shall safeguard the public from the primary fallout which is slated to occur 11.3 upon the arrest announcement of Mr. Podesta (actionable 11.4). Confirmation (to the public) of what is occurring will then be revealed and will not be openly accepted. Public riots are being organized in serious numbers in an effort to prevent the arrest and capture of more senior public officials. On POTUS’ order, a state of temporary military control will be actioned and special ops carried out. False leaks have been made to retain several within the confines of the United States to prevent extradition and special operator necessity. Rest assured, the safety and well-being of every man, woman, and child of this country is being exhausted in full. However, the atmosphere within the country will unfortunately be divided as so many have fallen for the corrupt and evil narrative that has long been broadcast. We will be initiating the Emergency Broadcast System (EMS) during this time in an effort to provide a direct message (avoiding the fake news) to all citizens. Organizations and/or people that wish to do us harm during this time will be met with swift fury – certain laws have been pre-lifted to provide our great military the necessary authority to handle and conduct these operations (at home and abroad)."

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/147547939/#147567888

This is interesting, since it points to something which would be in the works currently... hm. Is it possible for something 3 years old to be executed now, though?
I find this rather like an episode of Doctor Who - the episode "Blink": https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/DoctorWhoS29E10Blink

If this is a LARP - I want to join! :D I'll be the Gender-fluid trans-Panzerkampfwagen Tiger Ausf. B with a rainbow colored camouflage pattern with antifash flags all over it! lol Like, TOTALLY Psychedelic, man!
(j/k - just thought this was interesting...)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 18, 2020, 10:12:36 PM
Perfect example of disingenuous bullshit or pathological aversion to context.

Shark isn’t talking about pre-pubescents, he’s talking about potential sexual predators in a dress.  The context is clear and taking it otherwise is not signaling high INT

Not surprising really.  jhkim has always been the slippery snake in the grass that poses as a friendly king snake one second before showing his true colors the next.  He waits for fools so can inject them with his venom.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 18, 2020, 10:16:49 PM
Macris is echoing multiple discussions I've seen in the past two weeks, and most of them have been carefully detailed as well (but I'm not a lawyer or Constitutional scholar to certify their statements). If they are right, Trump certainly has the law on his side and he's got Abe Lincoln as previous precedent of protecting the union by any means necessary.

It would be most unfortunate (and very scary for the entire planet) if Trump has to use the nuclear option, which is exactly why I hope that Sidney Powell truly has the evidence she claims and truly has the ability to achieve victory as she claims.

I'm well-aware that most lawyers like hyperbole, especially in politically partisan cases via "trial by internet" where half the gig is public PR moves, but I've read discussions by posters who claim to be lawyers who say that Sidney either wins BIG or her law license is toast, her career is toast and she's open to enough defamation suits to leave her in poverty.

But I'd rather Trump go nuclear than America fall.
...most especially for the LOLZ.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 18, 2020, 10:17:17 PM
I get the concern that male predators can don a dress and slip into the bathroom, but what stopped them from doing that three decades ago?

Wasn't the entire point of publicly changing the law to shame people to stop them from making a scene if noticing males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom?  I would think that historically had a chilling effect on males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 10:19:05 PM
This is from Nov 1 2017, which is one of the first Qanon (I know, I know!) posts:
"My fellow Americans, over the course of the next several days you will undoubtedly realize that we are taking back our great country (the land of the free) from the evil tyrants that wish to do us harm and destroy the last remaining refuge of shining light. On POTUS’ order, we have initiated certain fail-safes that shall safeguard the public from the primary fallout which is slated to occur 11.3 upon the arrest announcement of Mr. Podesta (actionable 11.4). Confirmation (to the public) of what is occurring will then be revealed and will not be openly accepted. Public riots are being organized in serious numbers in an effort to prevent the arrest and capture of more senior public officials. On POTUS’ order, a state of temporary military control will be actioned and special ops carried out. False leaks have been made to retain several within the confines of the United States to prevent extradition and special operator necessity. Rest assured, the safety and well-being of every man, woman, and child of this country is being exhausted in full. However, the atmosphere within the country will unfortunately be divided as so many have fallen for the corrupt and evil narrative that has long been broadcast. We will be initiating the Emergency Broadcast System (EMS) during this time in an effort to provide a direct message (avoiding the fake news) to all citizens. Organizations and/or people that wish to do us harm during this time will be met with swift fury – certain laws have been pre-lifted to provide our great military the necessary authority to handle and conduct these operations (at home and abroad)."

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/147547939/#147567888

This is interesting, since it points to something which would be in the works currently... hm. Is it possible for something 3 years old to be executed now, though?
I find this rather like an episode of Doctor Who - the episode "Blink": https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/DoctorWhoS29E10Blink

If this is a LARP - I want to join! :D I'll be the Gender-fluid trans-Panzerkampfwagen Tiger Ausf. B with a rainbow colored camouflage pattern with antifash flags all over it! lol Like, TOTALLY Psychedelic, man!
(j/k - just thought this was interesting...)

Greetings!

Very interesting, Consolcwby! President Trump needs to defend the Union from Marxist traitors and corrupt Democrats seeking to aid and abet an unlawful and unconstitutional overthrow of the government of the United States. The will of the people must be enforced, and those that seek to undermine and corrupt the will of the people should be brought to justice.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 18, 2020, 10:21:32 PM
If it becomes a thing, well the women will have to tolerate me going into the facility with my daughter., JUST like I do with my son now, because dudes are in there with him (aka predators)  I will be polite and not drop a thunder deuce while waiting for the daughter though.

I've seen plenty of dads bring their daughter into the men's room and stand guard outside the toilet. It's exactly what I would do.

Hell, if I have slightest twitch that a bathroom is sketchy, I check it before my girlfriend uses it or I just have her use the dude's room if it doesn't reek of Armageddon.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 18, 2020, 10:22:55 PM
I get the concern that male predators can don a dress and slip into the bathroom, but what stopped them from doing that three decades ago?

Wasn't the entire point of publicly changing the law to shame people to stop them from making a scene if noticing males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom?  I would think that historically had a chilling effect on males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom.
  And it was framed in such a way that it wouldnt matter how the 'woman' was dressed, if 'she' had t shirt, jeans and a 5 o'clock shadow, no challenges or questions, lest ye be judged.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 18, 2020, 10:25:07 PM
If it becomes a thing, well the women will have to tolerate me going into the facility with my daughter., JUST like I do with my son now, because dudes are in there with him (aka predators)  I will be polite and not drop a thunder deuce while waiting for the daughter though.

I've seen plenty of dads bring their daughter into the men's room and stand guard outside the toilet. It's exactly what I would do.

Hell, if I have slightest twitch that a bathroom is sketchy, I check it before my girlfriend uses it or I just have her use the dude's room if it doesn't reek of Armageddon.
  You are in Cali, correct?  Is it law there for public restrooms to be trans as well?  I do not live  in cali, and have no desire to move to cali, and I certainly do not want cali to move to me.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 10:30:52 PM
You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

This is getting hugely off-topic, but I will do my damndest to beat the shit out of you if you lay a finger on a kid in my house - or any other kid - just for going to the goddamn bathroom. Living in the Bay Area, I know a bunch of kids who identify as non-binary or gender fluid. This includes the family who live in the other half of my duplex, whose kid I watched grow from a baby to an awesome high school senior now. I chatted with them recently about their going to Korea next semester for study abroad, which they're excited about. It baffles and enrages me that someone would come and beat them up just for going to the bathroom. The same goes for the children of all my other family, friends, and community members.

Perfect example of disingenuous bullshit or pathological aversion to context.

Shark isn’t talking about pre-pubescents, he’s talking about potential sexual predators in a dress.  The context is clear and taking it otherwise is not signaling high INT

Greetings!

Thank you, EOTB. Outstanding!

See, this right here is why the animosity and hatred is growing, and being inflamed. Normal people--myself, you and others--speak in references that we all understand quite well, without being held by the hand and spoken to in escalating caveated detail. Then, the Leftists come along, and hearing the same conversation, go into Body Snatcher Mode, and they wonder why we either want them all shipped off to an island somewhere, or just beat them with a lead pipe. Leftists have this twisted, corrupt, fucked up lens of reality, where it makes it exasperating and very difficult to often have the simplest of conversations with them.

If I was to go to my local auto shop, or the gym, or my church, and ask anyone there--men or women--if they thought it was a good idea to let men dressed up as women into women's bathrooms--they would all unanimously say no fucking way. If I suggested that would they feel threatened if their niece or their young daughter went into a women's bathroom--and a man dressed as a woman also went inside--they would all say yes, they would feel very uncomfortable, and even threatened by such. I imagine more than a few of them--not all men, either by the way--would be very quickly looking to get violent with such a man dressed up as a woman, being in the bathroom with their little girl.

But somehow, Leftists don't understand this sentiment at all.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 18, 2020, 10:42:11 PM
Interesting thought experiment from Macris

https://macris.substack.com/p/trump-at-the-rubicon

There are a couple of problems with Maxris's thought experiment.

1) Biden is not going to come after Trump when he is not President; there is no way that the Swamp is going to unleash that Kraken that will devour him as soon as he is not President.

and b) Trump is not going to cross the rubicon with his army, Trump is just neither a Caesar nor a Hitler.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 18, 2020, 10:42:54 PM
Apart from the election: Mistwell's comments as a TRUE CONSERVATIVE who, like Reagan, believes we all need to move on from any qualms regarding bathrooms and who enters them, reframes the real issue with the election.

It isn't about Trump.  Entirely.

It's also about how for the 1st time in our lifetimes, we had a president who didn't feel like a fist-puppet for a global elite robbing us blind.  Trump is an expert at the use of soft power, but since the bureaucracy is largely immune to firing the bully pulpit isn't what it used to be.  Let's face it - he doesn't even control the executive branch.  This fact alone is why I feel largely resigned to eventual kinetic activities - the system has been used very well to legally place the system outside of voter control.  The presidency is the most powerful man in the world and the least powerful man in government simultaneously.  A single district judge can veto whatever the president tries to do, nationwide, for a couple of years out of a 4-year term. 

And this happened because the Republican party has become the pace-and-lead party.  if you're not familiar with pacing and leading as a concept, read about it: http://www.changingminds.org/techniques/general/sequential/pace_lead.htm

The republican role in the uniparty is to pace-and-lead you into accepting globalism.  Trump can win every single court case, take office in January on schedule, and if the Lincoln Party's of the world retain ideological power in the Republican party at large, it will not matter.  Trump's next 4 years will come and go, and the uniparty will absorb the delay like Russia absorbs the first year of an invasion.  That is how far the uniparty has placed the real levers of power from voter influence.

If Americans won't burn the republican party to the ground and make it go the way of the Whig party into historical irrelevance, while starting a new party that is opposed to everything that the Dems want and the Republicans pace and lead you towards - it isn't going to matter. 

Please.  Each of you.  Work in your communities to elect local officials, and then state officials, that come from your own ranks instead of those vetted by the republican party.  By the time we hear about them on the national stage they're already hopelessly corrupted.  You don't get a ticket to ride in the national show if they aren't very sure about your dependability to them. 

That's why Trump was so relentlessly character-assassinated.  He didn't have a ticket to ride.

And relentlessly primary existing republicans out of office.  If they're the "free market party" then that's the only rational response to their constant failure to do anything they say; the ratio of doing what they promise they'll prevent vs. doing what they promise when campaigning should be all you as an American need to see.

This is about more than stealing the vote.  As weird as it is to say that stealing the vote here is not the real concern.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 18, 2020, 10:47:47 PM

But somehow, Leftists don't understand this sentiment at all.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

― Upton Sinclair

And so they never will understand it.  Which is why I very non-diplomatically counsel derision upon any who practice this bullshit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 18, 2020, 10:50:44 PM
The will of the people must be enforced, and those that seek to undermine and corrupt the will of the people should be brought to justice.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Does the will of all of the majority of the people have to be enforced or just the will of the side you feel is right?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 18, 2020, 10:51:50 PM
Interesting thought experiment from Macris

https://macris.substack.com/p/trump-at-the-rubicon

There are a couple of problems with Maxris's thought experiment.

1) Biden is not going to come after Trump when he is not President; there is no way that the Swamp is going to unleash that Kraken that will devour him as soon as he is not President.

and b) Trump is not going to cross the rubicon with his army, Trump is just neither a Caesar nor a Hitler.

I agree that it would really depend upon Trump.  And his desire to triumph over the elites through getting them to change their ways instead of being a wartime consigliere the last few years is not a leading indicator.  But if he rolls the dice, I do think the world changes forever.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 18, 2020, 10:54:41 PM
The will of the people must be enforced, and those that seek to undermine and corrupt the will of the people should be brought to justice.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Does the will of all of the majority of the people have to be enforced or just the will of the side you feel is right?
   I guess, it will likely end up the way ALL of history gets decided.  Not by how many people felt they were right, but by the ones who won the fight.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 18, 2020, 10:57:27 PM
Apart from the election: Mistwell's comments as a TRUE CONSERVATIVE who, like Reagan, believes we all need to move on from any qualms regarding bathrooms and who enters them, reframes the real issue with the election.

It isn't about Trump.  Entirely.

It's also about how for the 1st time in our lifetimes, we had a president who didn't feel like a fist-puppet for a global elite robbing us blind.  Trump is an expert at the use of soft power, but since the bureaucracy is largely immune to firing the bully pulpit isn't what it used to be.  Let's face it - he doesn't even control the executive branch.  This fact alone is why I feel largely resigned to eventual kinetic activities - the system has been used very well to legally place the system outside of voter control.  The presidency is the most powerful man in the world and the least powerful man in government simultaneously.  A single district judge can veto whatever the president tries to do, nationwide, for a couple of years out of a 4-year term. 

And this happened because the Republican party has become the pace-and-lead party.  if you're not familiar with pacing and leading as a concept, read about it: http://www.changingminds.org/techniques/general/sequential/pace_lead.htm

The republican role in the uniparty is to pace-and-lead you into accepting globalism.  Trump can win every single court case, take office in January on schedule, and if the Lincoln Party's of the world retain ideological power in the Republican party at large, it will not matter.  Trump's next 4 years will come and go, and the uniparty will absorb the delay like Russia absorbs the first year of an invasion.  That is how far the uniparty has placed the real levers of power from voter influence.

If Americans won't burn the republican party to the ground and make it go the way of the Whig party into historical irrelevance, while starting a new party that is opposed to everything that the Dems want and the Republicans pace and lead you towards - it isn't going to matter. 

Please.  Each of you.  Work in your communities to elect local officials, and then state officials, that come from your own ranks instead of those vetted by the republican party.  By the time we hear about them on the national stage they're already hopelessly corrupted.  You don't get a ticket to ride in the national show if they aren't very sure about your dependability to them. 

That's why Trump was so relentlessly character-assassinated.  He didn't have a ticket to ride.

And relentlessly primary existing republicans out of office.  If they're the "free market party" then that's the only rational response to their constant failure to do anything they say; the ratio of doing what they promise they'll prevent vs. doing what they promise when campaigning should be all you as an American need to see.

This is about more than stealing the vote.  As weird as it is to say that stealing the vote here is not the real concern.

Greetings!

Preach on, EOTB!

So spot on, man. "Pace and Lead" party as the Republicans. You know that's right!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 18, 2020, 11:59:18 PM
Thanks shark.

The most important thing to realize is they've created an office of the presidency that can do anything they want him to do, completely outside of the checks and balances we think are there (but aren't); but simultaneously one that can do nearly nothing that you elect him to do

Heads I win, tails you lose.

Outside of the 2017 tax reform, everything Trump did can be undone in weeks after he leaves. 

Again, by design.  And this will continue so long as the pace-and-lead GOPe (the Lincoln Project's allies) continues to hold power we give them.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 19, 2020, 01:35:35 AM
Greetings!

Cock-sucking Democrats being charged with Federal Voter Intimidation charges for threatening Republicans in MICHIGAN! The state shall not be certified for Biden!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 19, 2020, 02:18:16 AM
I believe Trump's second term is going to be even more fun than his first term.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 19, 2020, 08:04:05 AM
Greetings!

Cock-sucking Democrats being charged with Federal Voter Intimidation charges for threatening Republicans in MICHIGAN! The state shall not be certified for Biden!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
But not just any Republicans. The Wayne County election board members have rescinded their votes and signed an affidavit stating they were the targets of intimidation.

One scrofulous lowlife, Abraham Aiyash, was even accused of doxxing a member's children. Which is entirely plausible, considering the tendency of radlefties to go for easy targets.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Abraxus on November 19, 2020, 08:48:45 AM
Guilty.
Welcome to Internet message boards? You think people are "considerate" here?

You really are gas lighting disingenuous troll. Again stop with the victim complex. I am all for having someone come into debate an opposing viewpoint. Not when they pretend to be an idiot. Again using the example about the Thirty Sword Lesbians you knew full well the response that kind of rpg would have from us. It's not the first time we talked negatively about an SJW rpg and you know it. Many of those times you came into the other threads to get on our cases for daring not to support similar rpgs. Now all of sudden you want to try and be disingenuous and pretend to go "everybody I'm clueless about the topic no really I am". You were too lazy to read up on the topic came into to thread to topic thinking no one would notice. Nice try but no one believes that anymore.

In any case you want to keep playing the victim and look like an idiot it's fine by me. After all you come off as being disingenuous and troll. I may not agree with say HappyDaze at least he has self respect to not try to pretend to be an idiot when discussing topics on a forum.



 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on November 19, 2020, 10:59:19 AM
Even Dan fucking Crenshaw is objecting to the troop withdrawals.  Pace and lead indeed.

Just the fact that there exists a picture of a Father and his son born after the start of Afghanistan deploying to Afghanistan together indicates that America has been there too long.  Gotta protect those CIA slush funds from the opium fields.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 19, 2020, 11:08:35 AM
Even Dan fucking Crenshaw is objecting to the troop withdrawals.  Pace and lead indeed.

Just the fact that there exists a picture of a Father and his son born after the start of Afghanistan deploying to Afghanistan together indicates that America has been there too long.  Gotta protect those CIA slush funds from the opium fields.
I respect Crenshaw for his service, but he's just wrong on this. I hope his motivations stem from 'I don't want my buddies to have died for nothing', which is understandable.

But the fact is that we've been there for twenty fucking years. I grok the drive to 'build democracy' and what not. But the even uglier fact is that unless you are willing to go full ham (as we did in Japan), you're not going to build a democracy (or anything vaguely resembling it) in that part of the world. The people there have not socially evolved much beyond the tribal mentality and it shows.

And before someone cries 'dat's rayciss!' -- how? How is it racist to say 'their culture simply isn't ready'? I don't hate these people, except for the real loons who think blowing themselves up (along with innocent bystanders) is a great idea. But unless we bring the hammer down Roman Empire style on them -- to an extent that I think it would violate our OWN laws on war, let alone the U.N. -- we cannot 'fix' them. They have to find out the lessons themselves -- or continue as they are.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 19, 2020, 11:57:51 AM
Even Dan fucking Crenshaw is objecting to the troop withdrawals.  Pace and lead indeed.

Just the fact that there exists a picture of a Father and his son born after the start of Afghanistan deploying to Afghanistan together indicates that America has been there too long.  Gotta protect those CIA slush funds from the opium fields.
I respect Crenshaw for his service, but he's just wrong on this. I hope his motivations stem from 'I don't want my buddies to have died for nothing', which is understandable.

But the fact is that we've been there for twenty fucking years. I grok the drive to 'build democracy' and what not. But the even uglier fact is that unless you are willing to go full ham (as we did in Japan), you're not going to build a democracy (or anything vaguely resembling it) in that part of the world. The people there have not socially evolved much beyond the tribal mentality and it shows.

And before someone cries 'dat's rayciss!' -- how? How is it racist to say 'their culture simply isn't ready'? I don't hate these people, except for the real loons who think blowing themselves up (along with innocent bystanders) is a great idea. But unless we bring the hammer down Roman Empire style on them -- to an extent that I think it would violate our OWN laws on war, let alone the U.N. -- we cannot 'fix' them. They have to find out the lessons themselves -- or continue as they are.
I don't know if I'd say "the people there" as much as the society there. If you get those people out of that society, they can (and some do) adopt other views (though some of them do not, and this creates problems of its own). I do agree though that transforming that society would require actions that violate a lot of things. Without doing so, they don't appear to be developing into anything compatible with Western culture anytime soon (if at all). This creates a real problem with continued peaceful coexistence (an ideal goal) and really leaves only two options: isolation or destruction (likely through forced assimilation, as that's somewhat less objectionable than genocide). I wish that there were another way, but history hasn't shown one.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 19, 2020, 03:59:10 PM
Greetings!

Release the KRAKEN!!!!

Salty Cracker discusses the recent press conference held by the Trump Campaign.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 19, 2020, 04:07:50 PM
Ah, Afghanistan.  Famously where Empires go to die.

But I am sure this time will be different.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 19, 2020, 07:05:30 PM
The will of the people must be enforced, and those that seek to undermine and corrupt the will of the people should be brought to justice.
Does the will of all of the majority of the people have to be enforced or just the will of the side you feel is right?

Apparently around here it doesn't extend to the majority that voted for Joe Biden.

You remember, the man who will be President in a couple of months, if Donald Trump's enablers don't destroy the country in the meantime.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 19, 2020, 07:31:55 PM
You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

This is getting hugely off-topic, but I will do my damndest to beat the shit out of you if you lay a finger on a kid in my house - or any other kid - just for going to the goddamn bathroom. Living in the Bay Area, I know a bunch of kids who identify as non-binary or gender fluid. This includes the family who live in the other half of my duplex, whose kid I watched grow from a baby to an awesome high school senior now. I chatted with them recently about their going to Korea next semester for study abroad, which they're excited about. It baffles and enrages me that someone would come and beat them up just for going to the bathroom. The same goes for the children of all my other family, friends, and community members.

Perfect example of disingenuous bullshit or pathological aversion to context.

Shark isn’t talking about pre-pubescents, he’s talking about potential sexual predators in a dress.  The context is clear and taking it otherwise is not signaling high INT

EOTB, your post is disingenuous bullshit. What SHARK said was "gender fluid trans freak". Your claim is "Of course by 'gender fluid trans freak' what he means is 'rapist'". That's not a fucking equivalence. I don't accept that it's acceptable to equate "trans person" to "sexual predator" as if they're somehow the same thing, because they're not.

Every week I read about trans people being beaten, raped, and killed.

https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/marking-the-deadliest-year-on-record-hrc-releases-report-on-violence-against-transgender-and-gender-non-conforming-people

I have yet to read about *any* case of someone posing as trans to assult a cis girl or woman in a bathroom. SHARK - if you want to clarify who you would beat up for going to the bathroom, you can go ahead and clarify.


I get the concern that male predators can don a dress and slip into the bathroom, but what stopped them from doing that three decades ago?

Wasn't the entire point of publicly changing the law to shame people to stop them from making a scene if noticing males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom?  I would think that historically had a chilling effect on males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom.

There's no such law, though. For the most part, there have not been laws for who uses what restroom - it's just culture. Conservative advocates in several states have now pushed to add new "bathroom laws" to enforce bathroom use. Despite lack of such laws, there has never been any pattern of a man putting on a dress in order to get into a women's bathroom and rape someone there. I've never read of a single documented case.

I have read about dozens of assaults of men going out to beat up - and possibly rape and kill - trans people.

Every trans person I know worries that someone will come and beat them up just for what they wear, or for what bathroom they use. And this is in California!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 19, 2020, 07:32:58 PM

Apparently around here it doesn't extend to the majority that voted for Joe Biden.

Well, most of them died during the Bush and Clinton administrations
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 19, 2020, 08:07:23 PM
Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

I would stand rock solid behind any man that felt the same--in or out of a courtroom. I don't give a fuck. There are some things that you know what? Fuck what the cock-sucking society thinks, and fuck what some cucks in government believe. You have to make a stand for what is right, no matter what the cost. Just tell the cuck judge to bring a rope, because you are not backing down, not now, not ever. Let these cuck judges try and judge against people protecting their families. See how fast they see the fucking light when shit gets burned and blood starts flowing in the streets like crazy.

That's right. We know they would shit their fucking pants and change their viewpoints very fast. A rope would be waiting for them right outside their fucking house.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I have two close friends who are trans, and one close friend whose child (near adult) is trans or at least trying to figure that question out.

None of them, and I mean none of them in any even vague possible way, would want to use a bathroom with someone else because they want to be near those other people, or leer at those other people, or even look at those other people. The issue has nothing to do with those kinds of things, for them.

All three of these people are nerdy. All three are awkward, even as adults. It's really not about sexuality for any of them. They wouldn't be in a bathroom to make anyone feel uncomfortable, or to feel anything about them. In fact, they'd all prefer to be as invisible as possible. They would just...want to go to the bathroom in peace, without anyone giving them a hassle. Without looking out of place.

I think this is one of those topics which seems one way on a theoretical basis, and seems entirely much more innocent when encountered in real life. This isn't about dirty old men trying to pose as a woman to leer at naked women in bathrooms. This is about people who, at least in my limited experience, are just awkward people who feel out of place and they want to just quietly go to the bathroom like everyone else in the place they feel they're "supposed" to be. Without making eye contact, or conversation, or being noticed really at all.

Greetings!

Ok, Mistwell. Such examples as you cite seem innocent enough, but I am reminded of how I have heard about trans freaks going into women's bathrooms and fucking little girls.

Are you surprised that such examples make me think of being entirely harsh and ruthless?

Why do you think so many people get crazy about trans men wearing dresses going into women's bathrooms?

Seems like quite a normal reaction to me. Matter of fact, I know many people that are dead set against letting trans men into women's bathrooms. It's not even a subject open for discussion with them.

I think this is just yet another example of the larger cultural divide between Conservatives and Liberals. The enormous divide in how people view reality, the gender norms they embrace, and the social rules they are comfortable with and expect to be maintained. You, and Jhkim are just fine with trans men going into women's bathrooms. Well, there are lots of normal men and normal women that are not just fine with that.

Just one more difference between Liberal progressive states and Conservative states!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I felt uncomfortable with the idea until I met trans people and found them to be nothing like the sterotype in my head. That's what changed my mind. Not politics. Not a state. Not a culture. Just meeting people and seeing for myself nothing was scary there.

I am not a progressive. In no way shape or form am I am progressive. Most people who know me consider me a Republican. Most of my votes over the course of my life have gone to Republicans, though there are a meaningful number of Democrats in there as well (an a few third parties).

This isn't a matter of ideology for me. It's just me knowing people and finding them to be nothing like I imagined.

Which, let's face it, used to be how many people thought of RPG players. During the Satanic Panic, people would have looked you straight in the eye and told you they had read legit news reports about how D&D players were satanists who murdered people and engaged in vile rituals. They genuinely believed this, and felt they had read actual news accounts of it happening, and lost their shit if they heard a kid was playing it.

And then when you meet an actual gamer you find the gamer is nothing like that mythology that was built up.

I find this to be a very similar topic.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 19, 2020, 08:35:05 PM
This is getting hugely off-topic, but I will do my damndest to beat the shit out of you if you lay a finger on a kid in my house - or any other kid - just for going to the goddamn bathroom. Living in the Bay Area, I know a bunch of kids who identify as non-binary or gender fluid. This includes the family who live in the other half of my duplex, whose kid I watched grow from a baby to an awesome high school senior now. I chatted with them recently about their going to Korea next semester for study abroad, which they're excited about. It baffles and enrages me that someone would come and beat them up just for going to the bathroom. The same goes for the children of all my other family, friends, and community members.

Perfect example of disingenuous bullshit or pathological aversion to context.

Shark isn’t talking about pre-pubescents, he’s talking about potential sexual predators in a dress.  The context is clear and taking it otherwise is not signaling high INT

EOTB, your post is disingenuous bullshit. What SHARK said was "gender fluid trans freak". Your claim is "Of course by 'gender fluid trans freak' what he means is 'rapist'". That's not a fucking equivalence. I don't accept that it's acceptable to equate "trans person" to "sexual predator" as if they're somehow the same thing, because they're not.

Every week I read about trans people being beaten, raped, and killed.

https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/marking-the-deadliest-year-on-record-hrc-releases-report-on-violence-against-transgender-and-gender-non-conforming-people

I have yet to read about *any* case of someone posing as trans to assult a cis girl or woman in a bathroom. SHARK - if you want to clarify who you would beat up for going to the bathroom, you can go ahead and clarify.


I get the concern that male predators can don a dress and slip into the bathroom, but what stopped them from doing that three decades ago?

Wasn't the entire point of publicly changing the law to shame people to stop them from making a scene if noticing males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom?  I would think that historically had a chilling effect on males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom.

There's no such law, though. For the most part, there have not been laws for who uses what restroom - it's just culture. Conservative advocates in several states have now pushed to add new "bathroom laws" to enforce bathroom use. Despite lack of such laws, there has never been any pattern of a man putting on a dress in order to get into a women's bathroom and rape someone there. I've never read of a single documented case.

I have read about dozens of assaults of men going out to beat up - and possibly rape and kill - trans people.

Every trans person I know worries that someone will come and beat them up just for what they wear, or for what bathroom they use. And this is in California!

You're the one jumping to rape.  https://www.spokesman.com/blogs/hbo/2016/jul/13/transgender-woman-arrested/ 

You used shark's post to launch into a diatribe about shark beating up kids and how you would step up to prevent this horrible thing no one remotely said.  Yes, that was so clearly and obviously a disingenuous reading of shark's post the jury is not confused.  The effect of your passionate defense of children not mentioned in shark's post is to muddy perception that shark's post was about beating up children.  Go fuck yourself.

Yes, they did change the law.  The white house issued a directive with the administrative effect of law stating that this was a title IX issue - one not previously considered to exist.  That is changing the law, because suddenly schools could lose title IX-dependent funding if they maintained the traditional bathroom rules, which wasn't true the day before that directive was issued.  Your reading apparently doesn't extend to the finer points of the controversy.

Maybe someday they will do a study on your inability to read context causing your inaccurate conclusions, and the information will be packaged in a form you're disposed to accept.

BTW - if you want to use my pointing out your posting style to launch into trans, society at large, and the law - go ahead.  But I won't be responding to this any further. 

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 19, 2020, 08:38:29 PM
The most important thing to realize is they've created an office of the presidency that can do anything they want him to do, completely outside of the checks and balances we think are there (but aren't); but simultaneously one that can do nearly nothing that you elect him to do

Heads I win, tails you lose.

Outside of the 2017 tax reform, everything Trump did can be undone in weeks after he leaves. 

Isn't that the fault of Congress, and most specifically the Senate? The master of deals never made any; the Senate and in particular McConnell used Trump for what they wanted (tax cuts and judicial appointments - another thing that can't be undone in weeks) but little else if they could avoid it.

Trump never really demonstrated any steady vision of what he wanted to do, other than playing golf and seeking uncritical adulation.


Apparently around here it doesn't extend to the majority that voted for Joe Biden.

Well, most of them died during the Bush and Clinton administrations

 ::) If that were true, you'd think Rudy's elite strike force could easily find many such voters.

(Pennsylvania did find an attempted dead voter - a Republican in Forty Fort tried to get an absentee ballot for his dead mother.)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 19, 2020, 08:41:07 PM

And then when you meet an actual gamer you find the gamer is nothing like that mythology that was built up.

I find this to be a very similar topic.

"I'm here pacing...I'm here leading...we're the same...we face the same basic struggle...and if I can change...and if you can change...we all can change!"

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 19, 2020, 08:43:24 PM
judicial appointments - another thing that can't be undone in weeks


Republican judges primarily keep *you* from ever having a president that will do anything other than what the globalists want. 

(https://i.imgur.com/KjcDzGd.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: DocJones on November 19, 2020, 09:03:26 PM
I have yet to read about *any* case of someone posing as trans to assult a cis girl or woman in a bathroom. SHARK - if you want to clarify who you would beat up for going to the bathroom, you can go ahead and clarify.

I suspect these fine citizens might be deserving of an ass-kicking:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/transgender-wyoming-woman-convicted-of-sexually-assaulting-10-year-old-girl-in-bathroom
https://www.kxii.com/content/news/Transgender-woman-allegedly-sexually-assaults-teen-in-walmart-505820451.html
https://www.womenarehuman.com/male-transgender-youth-arrested-for-raping-4-year-old-girl-distributing-videos-photos-of-the-act-jakob-dakota-nieves/
https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 19, 2020, 09:04:32 PM
Dan fucking Crenshaw

(https://i.imgur.com/wezOZu9.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/1aPMN0d.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on November 19, 2020, 10:14:39 PM
In any event, it's hard to take seriously an article that refers to the late Hugo Chavez as a "dictator" when he was legitimately elected and made it a point not to crush his enemies -even after they tried at least one putsch against him.
That's not a very good argument. Hitler, of all people, rose to power in a legitimate election. Plenty of dictators use democratic means to acquire power; the defining characteristic is how they change rules or use extralegal means to ensure they stay in power. And Chavez not only changed the Constitution and packed the courts to maintain his hold, he even started his career as part of a failed military coup. Venezuela never became fully authoritarian under his rule, but it was on the border.

That's a slippery way of wording it. Hitler was trounced in the 1932 presidential election by Hindenburg, but got the chancellorship in a corrupt bargain when the German establishment (landowners, bankers, industrialists, etc) decided to back him and put him over. So no, Hitler was never elected. He got the job in a backroom deal.
Hmm... You sure know alot about NAZIS. Are they part of your interests? Conflict Simulations? Just wondering...

Read a few books.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 19, 2020, 10:57:04 PM
This is getting hugely off-topic, but I will do my damndest to beat the shit out of you if you lay a finger on a kid in my house - or any other kid - just for going to the goddamn bathroom. Living in the Bay Area, I know a bunch of kids who identify as non-binary or gender fluid. This includes the family who live in the other half of my duplex, whose kid I watched grow from a baby to an awesome high school senior now. I chatted with them recently about their going to Korea next semester for study abroad, which they're excited about. It baffles and enrages me that someone would come and beat them up just for going to the bathroom. The same goes for the children of all my other family, friends, and community members.

Perfect example of disingenuous bullshit or pathological aversion to context.

Shark isn’t talking about pre-pubescents, he’s talking about potential sexual predators in a dress.  The context is clear and taking it otherwise is not signaling high INT

EOTB, your post is disingenuous bullshit. What SHARK said was "gender fluid trans freak". Your claim is "Of course by 'gender fluid trans freak' what he means is 'rapist'". That's not a fucking equivalence. I don't accept that it's acceptable to equate "trans person" to "sexual predator" as if they're somehow the same thing, because they're not.

Every week I read about trans people being beaten, raped, and killed.

https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/marking-the-deadliest-year-on-record-hrc-releases-report-on-violence-against-transgender-and-gender-non-conforming-people

I have yet to read about *any* case of someone posing as trans to assult a cis girl or woman in a bathroom. SHARK - if you want to clarify who you would beat up for going to the bathroom, you can go ahead and clarify.


I get the concern that male predators can don a dress and slip into the bathroom, but what stopped them from doing that three decades ago?

Wasn't the entire point of publicly changing the law to shame people to stop them from making a scene if noticing males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom?  I would think that historically had a chilling effect on males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom.

There's no such law, though. For the most part, there have not been laws for who uses what restroom - it's just culture. Conservative advocates in several states have now pushed to add new "bathroom laws" to enforce bathroom use. Despite lack of such laws, there has never been any pattern of a man putting on a dress in order to get into a women's bathroom and rape someone there. I've never read of a single documented case.

I have read about dozens of assaults of men going out to beat up - and possibly rape and kill - trans people.

Every trans person I know worries that someone will come and beat them up just for what they wear, or for what bathroom they use. And this is in California!

You're the one jumping to rape.  https://www.spokesman.com/blogs/hbo/2016/jul/13/transgender-woman-arrested/ 

You used shark's post to launch into a diatribe about shark beating up kids and how you would step up to prevent this horrible thing no one remotely said.  Yes, that was so clearly and obviously a disingenuous reading of shark's post the jury is not confused.  The effect of your passionate defense of children not mentioned in shark's post is to muddy perception that shark's post was about beating up children.  Go fuck yourself.

Yes, they did change the law.  The white house issued a directive with the administrative effect of law stating that this was a title IX issue - one not previously considered to exist.  That is changing the law, because suddenly schools could lose title IX-dependent funding if they maintained the traditional bathroom rules, which wasn't true the day before that directive was issued.  Your reading apparently doesn't extend to the finer points of the controversy.

Maybe someday they will do a study on your inability to read context causing your inaccurate conclusions, and the information will be packaged in a form you're disposed to accept.

BTW - if you want to use my pointing out your posting style to launch into trans, society at large, and the law - go ahead.  But I won't be responding to this any further.

Greetings!

Right on point, my friend! Talk about Jhkim intentionally "muddying the waters"! *laughing* Geesus, so true, heh?

Of course, SHARK isn't talking about beating fucking kids.

Adult men that like to wear dresses and fucking pretend they are women, going into women's bathrooms. I've heard of these kinds of freaks harassing women, molesting and raping young girls.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 19, 2020, 10:59:22 PM

And then when you meet an actual gamer you find the gamer is nothing like that mythology that was built up.

I find this to be a very similar topic.

"I'm here pacing...I'm here leading...we're the same...we face the same basic struggle...and if I can change...and if you can change...we all can change!"

Greetings!

*LAUGHING* Just what you were talking about earlier in the thread, EOTB! PACING AND LEADING! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 19, 2020, 11:09:35 PM
Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

I would stand rock solid behind any man that felt the same--in or out of a courtroom. I don't give a fuck. There are some things that you know what? Fuck what the cock-sucking society thinks, and fuck what some cucks in government believe. You have to make a stand for what is right, no matter what the cost. Just tell the cuck judge to bring a rope, because you are not backing down, not now, not ever. Let these cuck judges try and judge against people protecting their families. See how fast they see the fucking light when shit gets burned and blood starts flowing in the streets like crazy.

That's right. We know they would shit their fucking pants and change their viewpoints very fast. A rope would be waiting for them right outside their fucking house.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I have two close friends who are trans, and one close friend whose child (near adult) is trans or at least trying to figure that question out.

None of them, and I mean none of them in any even vague possible way, would want to use a bathroom with someone else because they want to be near those other people, or leer at those other people, or even look at those other people. The issue has nothing to do with those kinds of things, for them.

All three of these people are nerdy. All three are awkward, even as adults. It's really not about sexuality for any of them. They wouldn't be in a bathroom to make anyone feel uncomfortable, or to feel anything about them. In fact, they'd all prefer to be as invisible as possible. They would just...want to go to the bathroom in peace, without anyone giving them a hassle. Without looking out of place.

I think this is one of those topics which seems one way on a theoretical basis, and seems entirely much more innocent when encountered in real life. This isn't about dirty old men trying to pose as a woman to leer at naked women in bathrooms. This is about people who, at least in my limited experience, are just awkward people who feel out of place and they want to just quietly go to the bathroom like everyone else in the place they feel they're "supposed" to be. Without making eye contact, or conversation, or being noticed really at all.

Greetings!

Ok, Mistwell. Such examples as you cite seem innocent enough, but I am reminded of how I have heard about trans freaks going into women's bathrooms and fucking little girls.

Are you surprised that such examples make me think of being entirely harsh and ruthless?

Why do you think so many people get crazy about trans men wearing dresses going into women's bathrooms?

Seems like quite a normal reaction to me. Matter of fact, I know many people that are dead set against letting trans men into women's bathrooms. It's not even a subject open for discussion with them.

I think this is just yet another example of the larger cultural divide between Conservatives and Liberals. The enormous divide in how people view reality, the gender norms they embrace, and the social rules they are comfortable with and expect to be maintained. You, and Jhkim are just fine with trans men going into women's bathrooms. Well, there are lots of normal men and normal women that are not just fine with that.

Just one more difference between Liberal progressive states and Conservative states!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I felt uncomfortable with the idea until I met trans people and found them to be nothing like the sterotype in my head. That's what changed my mind. Not politics. Not a state. Not a culture. Just meeting people and seeing for myself nothing was scary there.

I am not a progressive. In no way shape or form am I am progressive. Most people who know me consider me a Republican. Most of my votes over the course of my life have gone to Republicans, though there are a meaningful number of Democrats in there as well (an a few third parties).

This isn't a matter of ideology for me. It's just me knowing people and finding them to be nothing like I imagined.

Which, let's face it, used to be how many people thought of RPG players. During the Satanic Panic, people would have looked you straight in the eye and told you they had read legit news reports about how D&D players were satanists who murdered people and engaged in vile rituals. They genuinely believed this, and felt they had read actual news accounts of it happening, and lost their shit if they heard a kid was playing it.

And then when you meet an actual gamer you find the gamer is nothing like that mythology that was built up.

I find this to be a very similar topic.

Greetings!

Mistwell, I have to confess to you. I have met and had conversations with Transvestite men. Yes, they were polite and friendly.

I also still believe that they were definitely on the nutty side. I wouldn't say that they are rational, clear thinking people, nor are they emotionally stable. From what I saw--over a time of socializing with them to some extent--their lives are a fucking mess and a train-wreck. Their family-life, their jobs, the multiple lovers, the drugs, on and fucking on. I think these "gender fluid" trans freaks are delusional.

I still do not believe that Trans men should be allowed to go into women's bathrooms. I don't think it is a good idea at all.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 20, 2020, 01:00:34 AM
Greetings!

The Banana Republic of the United States.

Paint The Trump program discusses the current politics, the Chinese virus, Masks, and the elections.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 20, 2020, 01:17:06 AM
You used shark's post to launch into a diatribe about shark beating up kids and how you would step up to prevent this horrible thing no one remotely said.  Yes, that was so clearly and obviously a disingenuous reading of shark's post the jury is not confused.  The effect of your passionate defense of children not mentioned in shark's post is to muddy perception that shark's post was about beating up children.  Go fuck yourself.

The muddied perception here isn't from me. SHARK named "gender fluid trans" people as if they're all adult sexual predators, and that they shouldn't be near any girls or families.

That's wrong, and I called him on it.

I gave examples from my own life of what trans people I know. There's my late friend H, who played in our games for years but was terribly shy and I regret missing news of her death. There's my ex-wife's friend C, who is a budding author. There's my friend E, whom I co-GMed a campaign with for three years before she moved and transitioned. There's my house-mate's kid J, and there's my old neighborhood friend's kid other J. And there's my friend M who came out just earlier this year.

I never knew any trans people growing up. The only people I knew were gay were a couple who went to my church, but later in life I learned that a number of people I knew were gay - like my favorite high school English teacher, and one of my first co-workers. I only met trans people after moving to the Bay Area twenty years ago. It was definitely surprising to me that I would know so many people who came out as trans.

I have met some trans people who seemed sketchy - but then, I've met a bunch of non-trans people who seemed sketchy. I have seen nothing to suggest that there is any correlation between people being trans and being any sort of danger to others. (Trans people do have a higher suicide rate than average, but that's a danger to themselves.) To that end, you claimed:

You're the one jumping to rape.  https://www.spokesman.com/blogs/hbo/2016/jul/13/transgender-woman-arrested/ 

So... One trans person four years ago took an inappropriate picture in a fitting room. If that's the most you came up with, that implies to me that trans people are quite safe compared to the rest of the population. Given tens of thousands of rapes and murders every year among the non-trans population.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 20, 2020, 02:56:43 AM
This 3rd summation is also, for the record, false; I don’t expect it to be all that persuasive as the words still exist to be read.  But it is your credibility to spend as you wish.  I’m not the one who constructed a persona at least partially around fair reading and interpretive ability.

You set the requirement of one example to refute your statement, not I.  Perhaps they haven’t done a study.  Or perhaps a study missed the examples provided in the thread.  I’m sure if these examples had been in a study you would be familiar - but I’m not responsible for constructing your arguments.

My replies to you were never about trans people, jhkim.  They were statements on rhetorical tactics you choose to employ and continue to demonstrate when the subject (any subject) is one you are emotionally invested in to the point that there is only one acceptable opinion, in your opinion.  Then the typical nasty tactics of the left come out to play; the same BS used by TBP mods confronted by opinions they want marginalized: falsely paraphrase, moral high ground, isolate.  But you can put it on and take it off like a suit. 

It catches people by surprise because it’s deployed only seldom.  It shouldn’t.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 20, 2020, 03:18:40 AM
You set the requirement of one example to refute your statement, not I. Perhaps they haven’t done a study.  Or perhaps a study missed the examples provided in the thread.  I’m sure if these examples had been in a study you would be familiar - but I’m not responsible for constructing your arguments.

EOTB -- What I said was "I have yet to read about *any* case of someone posing as trans to assult a cis girl or woman in a bathroom." And I still haven't, given that your example wasn't in a bathroom and didn't involve assault.

What I *have* read about is dozens of cases of trans people being assaulted.


My replies to you were never about trans people, jhkim.  They were statements on rhetorical tactics you choose to employ and continue to demonstrate when the subject (any subject) is one you are emotionally invested in to the point that there is only one acceptable opinion, in your opinion.  Then the typical nasty tactics of the left come out to play; the same BS used by TBP mods confronted by opinions they want marginalized: falsely paraphrase, moral high ground, isolate.

Yes, I'm usually pretty calm in discussion - but I'm not a fucking robot. Yes, SHARK's statement got me damn angry, and I'm expressing that anger. He flat out said that he would assault trans people just for going to a women's restroom. I'm not falsely paraphrasing him there - that's literally what he said. These are people I love and care about.

I'm not a mod here. I'm not hiding behind any red text, and I'm trying to respond to what you and SHARK, and anyone else has to say. I'm not disappearing or silencing him.

SHARK can be a cool and reasonable guy sometimes, but in this case, he's majorly wrong.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 20, 2020, 04:05:17 AM
You set the requirement of one example to refute your statement, not I. Perhaps they haven’t done a study.  Or perhaps a study missed the examples provided in the thread.  I’m sure if these examples had been in a study you would be familiar - but I’m not responsible for constructing your arguments.

EOTB -- What I said was "I have yet to read about *any* case of someone posing as trans to assult a cis girl or woman in a bathroom." And I still haven't, given that your example wasn't in a bathroom and didn't involve assault.

What I *have* read about is dozens of cases of trans people being assaulted.


My replies to you were never about trans people, jhkim.  They were statements on rhetorical tactics you choose to employ and continue to demonstrate when the subject (any subject) is one you are emotionally invested in to the point that there is only one acceptable opinion, in your opinion.  Then the typical nasty tactics of the left come out to play; the same BS used by TBP mods confronted by opinions they want marginalized: falsely paraphrase, moral high ground, isolate.

Yes, I'm usually pretty calm in discussion - but I'm not a fucking robot. Yes, SHARK's statement got me damn angry, and I'm expressing that anger. He flat out said that he would assault trans people just for going to a women's restroom. I'm not falsely paraphrasing him there - that's literally what he said. These are people I love and care about.

I'm not a mod here. I'm not hiding behind any red text, and I'm trying to respond to what you and SHARK, and anyone else has to say. I'm not disappearing or silencing him.

SHARK can be a cool and reasonable guy sometimes, but in this case, he's majorly wrong.

Greetings!

In this case, I'm majorly wrong?

No, Jhkim, I'm not wrong, majorly or otherwise.

I do not feel that it is right for a fucking man dressed up as a woman to be going into a woman's bathroom. Fucking gender-fluid trans freaks. Fuck no. And yeah, most normal people have a problem with it, as well, so it isn't like I just came up with the idea all by myself.

YOU might fucking love it and be fine with it--good for you. Merely because YOU are fine with it and approve of it, doesn't make ME WRONG.

Got it now?

In many places, even a man going into a woman's bathroom is going to potentially be problematic. Whenever on the occasion I have had to go into a woman's bathroom--I have *always* enlisted my wife/girlfriend/some other woman--to guard the doorway and vouch for me--because I have not wanted to cause any offense or alarm to anyone. And yeah, Jhkim, people get concerned when men go into a woman's bathroom, most especially when young girls are present. Doing so without precautions puts yourself at risk for a ass whoopin' real fast.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 20, 2020, 04:13:14 AM
Jhkim, you are being pedantic as the lack of toilet is not material, and you know that.  This is where your ability to contextualize waxes and wanes with its immediate convenience. You also apparently are overlooking other directly relevant examples provided by another poster. 

You can’t convince me otherwise, and if I were consulting for you my advice at this point would be to stop trying to convince anyone else. The first step is to stop digging.

But you’ve convinced yourself; and that is what’s important.  My suggestion would be to get back to the election. 

Edit - but for the record, that is the 4th false paraphrase.  You left out the presence of his daughter in the bathroom, generalizing it to make the paraphrase a more common occurrence.  Perhaps stating it accurately is difficult because you think that statement would receive more silent agreement than you’re comfortable with?  I’m trying to think of other reasons to explain why the disingenuity is so persistent, but that is a guess on my part

Edit 2 - I encourage you to go on to a woman’s forum and explain to them that a stranger taking photographs of them while undressed isn’t a form of assault.  Photos they have no control over, and could persist on the Internet for the rest of their lives.  Good luck with that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 20, 2020, 05:02:26 AM
Greetings!

A message from renowned actor, John Voight.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 20, 2020, 06:21:19 AM
You set the requirement of one example to refute your statement, not I. Perhaps they haven’t done a study.  Or perhaps a study missed the examples provided in the thread.  I’m sure if these examples had been in a study you would be familiar - but I’m not responsible for constructing your arguments.

EOTB -- What I said was "I have yet to read about *any* case of someone posing as trans to assult a cis girl or woman in a bathroom." And I still haven't, given that your example wasn't in a bathroom and didn't involve assault.

What I *have* read about is dozens of cases of trans people being assaulted.


My replies to you were never about trans people, jhkim.  They were statements on rhetorical tactics you choose to employ and continue to demonstrate when the subject (any subject) is one you are emotionally invested in to the point that there is only one acceptable opinion, in your opinion.  Then the typical nasty tactics of the left come out to play; the same BS used by TBP mods confronted by opinions they want marginalized: falsely paraphrase, moral high ground, isolate.

Yes, I'm usually pretty calm in discussion - but I'm not a fucking robot. Yes, SHARK's statement got me damn angry, and I'm expressing that anger. He flat out said that he would assault trans people just for going to a women's restroom. I'm not falsely paraphrasing him there - that's literally what he said. These are people I love and care about.

I'm not a mod here. I'm not hiding behind any red text, and I'm trying to respond to what you and SHARK, and anyone else has to say. I'm not disappearing or silencing him.

SHARK can be a cool and reasonable guy sometimes, but in this case, he's majorly wrong.

Greetings!

In this case, I'm majorly wrong?

No, Jhkim, I'm not wrong, majorly or otherwise.

I do not feel that it is right for a fucking man dressed up as a woman to be going into a woman's bathroom. Fucking gender-fluid trans freaks. Fuck no. And yeah, most normal people have a problem with it, as well, so it isn't like I just came up with the idea all by myself.

YOU might fucking love it and be fine with it--good for you. Merely because YOU are fine with it and approve of it, doesn't make ME WRONG.

Got it now?

In many places, even a man going into a woman's bathroom is going to potentially be problematic. Whenever on the occasion I have had to go into a woman's bathroom--I have *always* enlisted my wife/girlfriend/some other woman--to guard the doorway and vouch for me--because I have not wanted to cause any offense or alarm to anyone. And yeah, Jhkim, people get concerned when men go into a woman's bathroom, most especially when young girls are present. Doing so without precautions puts yourself at risk for a ass whoopin' real fast.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You're transphobic, we can all get that. You have strong feelings about the issue, and while they aren't very empathetic, there's nothing wrong with having feelings. However, when you allow those feelings to push you towards taking violent actions (or, as is most common on message boards, talking shit about taking violent actions) towards other people, then your feelings stop mattering because they don't justify violence, and that's when you become the bad guy.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 20, 2020, 06:37:33 AM
Greetings!

Transphobic? *Laughing* Reee! Reee! Reee! No, I just think they are delusional.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 20, 2020, 06:52:49 AM
Reee! Reee! Reee!
Your fears really have been pushing you to make that sound a lot lately. Perhaps you should seek professional help.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on November 20, 2020, 08:05:13 AM
You have strong feelings about the issue, and while they aren't very empathetic, there's nothing wrong with having feelings.
My son says, "If you have some feelings, you should write them in your diary." He's nine.

This "trans perverts leap into women's bathrooms to assault them!" thing seems a lot like the "AD&D1e will lead to satan worship and child sacrifice" thing back in the 1980s. Much talk and drama, but it just doesn't happen.

I have never seen a man dressed as a woman entering a woman's public toilet. Which means either that they're so far along in their transition that they're very definitely no longer a prospect as a male predator (suppressed testosterone doesn't make for a high level of aggression), or that there just aren't that many transwomen out there.

In the most recent census in Australia about 1,200 people nationally identified as trans, which is less than half as many people we have who were born in Albania. So I think that despite the leftie media making such a big noise about their rights, and for all the emotional moments some people are having at the thought of the people wandering into women's bathrooms, there just aren't that many. We can, I think, calm the fuck down.

The Right really is just as sensitive and butthurt and getting hysterical over non-events as the Left. Everyone is looking for, as the rpg.net petitioners put it, an Emotionally Safe Environment. Really they all need to harden the fuck up.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 20, 2020, 09:41:17 AM
I have never seen a man dressed as a woman entering a woman's public toilet. Which means either that they're so far along in their transition that they're very definitely no longer a prospect as a male predator (suppressed testosterone doesn't make for a high level of aggression), or that there just aren't that many transwomen out there.

Ok. Considering the number of women who are aggressive and abusive, I don't think someone changing their testosterone levels justifies the idea that they're "very definitely" no longer a prospect for sexual predation.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 20, 2020, 09:43:47 AM
You're transphobic, we can all get that.

No. I think the armchair psychoanalysis of "phobia" has been one of the dumbest things to come down the pike.
I think Shark's reactions are more in line with disgust than fear. (To paraphrase Johnathan Haidt)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 20, 2020, 09:53:14 AM
You're transphobic, we can all get that.

No. I think the armchair psychoanalysis of "phobia" has been one of the dumbest things to come down the pike.
I think Shark's reactions are more in line with disgust than fear. (To paraphrase Johnathan Haidt)
In some models, disgust stems from fear. In many others, there is a relationship. But, beyond either of those, the common use definition of transphobic applies here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 20, 2020, 10:05:54 AM

 Fucking gender-fluid trans freaks.

Looks like someone jumped the shark.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 20, 2020, 10:07:11 AM

 Fucking gender-fluid trans freaks.

Looks like someone jumped the shark.
In a women's bathroom, with a candlestick...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 20, 2020, 11:30:59 AM
You're transphobic, we can all get that.

No. I think the armchair psychoanalysis of "phobia" has been one of the dumbest things to come down the pike.
I think Shark's reactions are more in line with disgust than fear. (To paraphrase Johnathan Haidt)
In some models, disgust stems from fear. In many others, there is a relationship. But, beyond either of those, the common use definition of transphobic applies here.

I disagree with the "common use" of the definition of transphobic. Unless you mean a term that sounds like some kind of psychological diagnosis in order for the user to assume an air of authority on the subject.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 20, 2020, 12:00:06 PM
I do not feel that it is right for a fucking man dressed up as a woman to be going into a woman's bathroom. Fucking gender-fluid trans freaks. Fuck no. And yeah, most normal people have a problem with it, as well, so it isn't like I just came up with the idea all by myself.

YOU might fucking love it and be fine with it--good for you. Merely because YOU are fine with it and approve of it, doesn't make ME WRONG.

The issue is that you're characterizing trans people as freaks who don't belong around families and deserve to be beat up for going to the bathroom, but that doesn't describe any of the trans people I know.

So, to pick one example, E is my friend that I co-GMed games with for years, who is trans and identifies as a woman. It's one thing to claim that she's wrong - it's a whole other thing to beat her up if she happened to go to a public bathroom at the same time as your daughter.

So, that's my question:  If E were to go to the bathroom at the same time as your daughter, would you engage in violence? What do you think would justify that?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on November 20, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
Oh snap.  Didn't see that EOTB.  Even Tulsi Gabbard.  It's all just buckets of shit all the way down isn't it?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 20, 2020, 01:00:53 PM
I have also never heard of a trans person attacking a woman in the restroom, and never even suggested such.  I have, on several occasions from real life LEOs heard accounts of predators attacking women in the women's restroom in public restrooms.  This is the same reason I do go with my 9yo son anytime he has to go to the bathroom, because there have also been kids (boys in this case) attacked by predators in the men's restroom.  It almost seems there is a strawman argument being built regarding trans people, that they are secret predators, I have not presented that, nor the belief of that.  I do however know that sexual predators are recidivists and opportunists of the worst sort (meaning they likely have urges that can not and will not operate at all times under reason) and will MOST CERTAINLY take more swings if you give them more chances at the plate. 

    If a business decides to take a stance to allow men into the women's restroom, so be it.  I just will be escorting the daughter to the facilities just like I do my son now.  IF the schools however decide to embark on this insanity...we have a different problem then, that I think will not have a very easy, or calm resolution.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 20, 2020, 01:50:08 PM
Oh snap.  Didn't see that EOTB.  Even Tulsi Gabbard.  It's all just buckets of shit all the way down isn't it?

Pretty much.  We don’t tend to look hard at those speaking pleasing sound bites
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 20, 2020, 02:22:28 PM
Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

I would stand rock solid behind any man that felt the same--in or out of a courtroom. I don't give a fuck. There are some things that you know what? Fuck what the cock-sucking society thinks, and fuck what some cucks in government believe. You have to make a stand for what is right, no matter what the cost. Just tell the cuck judge to bring a rope, because you are not backing down, not now, not ever. Let these cuck judges try and judge against people protecting their families. See how fast they see the fucking light when shit gets burned and blood starts flowing in the streets like crazy.

That's right. We know they would shit their fucking pants and change their viewpoints very fast. A rope would be waiting for them right outside their fucking house.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I have two close friends who are trans, and one close friend whose child (near adult) is trans or at least trying to figure that question out.

None of them, and I mean none of them in any even vague possible way, would want to use a bathroom with someone else because they want to be near those other people, or leer at those other people, or even look at those other people. The issue has nothing to do with those kinds of things, for them.

All three of these people are nerdy. All three are awkward, even as adults. It's really not about sexuality for any of them. They wouldn't be in a bathroom to make anyone feel uncomfortable, or to feel anything about them. In fact, they'd all prefer to be as invisible as possible. They would just...want to go to the bathroom in peace, without anyone giving them a hassle. Without looking out of place.

I think this is one of those topics which seems one way on a theoretical basis, and seems entirely much more innocent when encountered in real life. This isn't about dirty old men trying to pose as a woman to leer at naked women in bathrooms. This is about people who, at least in my limited experience, are just awkward people who feel out of place and they want to just quietly go to the bathroom like everyone else in the place they feel they're "supposed" to be. Without making eye contact, or conversation, or being noticed really at all.

Greetings!

Ok, Mistwell. Such examples as you cite seem innocent enough, but I am reminded of how I have heard about trans freaks going into women's bathrooms and fucking little girls.

Are you surprised that such examples make me think of being entirely harsh and ruthless?

Why do you think so many people get crazy about trans men wearing dresses going into women's bathrooms?

Seems like quite a normal reaction to me. Matter of fact, I know many people that are dead set against letting trans men into women's bathrooms. It's not even a subject open for discussion with them.

I think this is just yet another example of the larger cultural divide between Conservatives and Liberals. The enormous divide in how people view reality, the gender norms they embrace, and the social rules they are comfortable with and expect to be maintained. You, and Jhkim are just fine with trans men going into women's bathrooms. Well, there are lots of normal men and normal women that are not just fine with that.

Just one more difference between Liberal progressive states and Conservative states!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I felt uncomfortable with the idea until I met trans people and found them to be nothing like the sterotype in my head. That's what changed my mind. Not politics. Not a state. Not a culture. Just meeting people and seeing for myself nothing was scary there.

I am not a progressive. In no way shape or form am I am progressive. Most people who know me consider me a Republican. Most of my votes over the course of my life have gone to Republicans, though there are a meaningful number of Democrats in there as well (an a few third parties).

This isn't a matter of ideology for me. It's just me knowing people and finding them to be nothing like I imagined.

Which, let's face it, used to be how many people thought of RPG players. During the Satanic Panic, people would have looked you straight in the eye and told you they had read legit news reports about how D&D players were satanists who murdered people and engaged in vile rituals. They genuinely believed this, and felt they had read actual news accounts of it happening, and lost their shit if they heard a kid was playing it.

And then when you meet an actual gamer you find the gamer is nothing like that mythology that was built up.

I find this to be a very similar topic.

Greetings!

Mistwell, I have to confess to you. I have met and had conversations with Transvestite men. Yes, they were polite and friendly.

I also still believe that they were definitely on the nutty side. I wouldn't say that they are rational, clear thinking people, nor are they emotionally stable. From what I saw--over a time of socializing with them to some extent--their lives are a fucking mess and a train-wreck. Their family-life, their jobs, the multiple lovers, the drugs, on and fucking on. I think these "gender fluid" trans freaks are delusional.

I still do not believe that Trans men should be allowed to go into women's bathrooms. I don't think it is a good idea at all.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Of the three trans people I know (or well two trans people and one who just doesn't know yet), only one is what I'd call "nutty". They're a narcissist, and in love with themselves. Their whole family going back generations is a bit nutty. 

The other two are completely normal people, who are reasonably well adjusted. One you wouldn't even notice had ever been anything other than a geeky woman, and you could have run into her at a gaming convention and never known it. She's been trans for decades, has been post-op for decades, well before this sort of stuff was more in vogue. She really, truly seems to me to just have had the odd misfortune of being born the wrong gender. And it would be wrong for her to go into a mens bathroom. She'd be much less welcome there than in a womens room.

NONE of these three have done drugs or are into that scene in any way. None have multiple lovers. One is a computer programmer, one is a rocket scientist (she's married and has been for a decade and had only a couple of partners in her life before she got married), and one is about to go to college so we will see what they become but it sure isn't going to be something bizarre because they're likely going into the sciences as well (and they've only dated probably three people in their life).

Also, none of these people are transvestites. That's a question of clothing you prefer more than it is gender identity. The post-op one has probably worn a dress less than a handful of times in her life. Like a lot of geeky women.

It sounds like you're image of trans people is a sort of punker oversexed drug addicted chaotic person. And sure, some are that. But an awful lot are not. I'd say the majority, you'd never know they were trans, or odd in any way, if you walked by them.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 20, 2020, 02:22:42 PM
Georgia's Secretary of State put out a press release certifying the results from his state, and then 30 minutes later retracted it.

Is there an "I don't even" smiley?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 20, 2020, 02:34:20 PM
Greetings!

A message from renowned actor, John Voight.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK



I don't think anything good comes from this though. At the very least I'm pretty sure Trump lost the popular vote, and I think there is good reason to think that many Americans don't particularly like Trump's brash style as a president even if they don't like the far left either. If the Republicans lost the electorate college as well, well then they lost. I don't think his taxes being made public helped either. The effect of John Voight speaking of the devil and such would be somewhat similar to broadcasting AOC howling about socialism and toxic masculinity and hope that it will somehow help mend the wounds. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 20, 2020, 02:55:44 PM

 Fucking gender-fluid trans freaks.

Looks like someone jumped the shark.

I would have accepted "jumped the Fonz"
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Chris24601 on November 20, 2020, 03:20:58 PM
I don't think anything good comes from this though. At the very least I'm pretty sure Trump lost the popular vote, and I think there is good reason to think that many Americans don't particularly like Trump's brash style as a president even if they don't like the far left either. If the Republicans lost the electorate college as well, well then they lost. I don't think his taxes being made public helped either. The effect of John Voight speaking of the devil and such would be somewhat similar to broadcasting AOC howling about socialism and toxic masculinity and hope that it will somehow help mend the wounds.
Actually, if the vote-weighting algorithm numbers cited by Sidney and attested to in sworn witness and whistleblower affidavits (i.e. evidence as the courts define evidence) are correct (i.e. that the machines counted each Biden vote as 1.25 votes), then Biden's actual vote total is somewhere in the neighborhood of 62 million or a bit less than Hillary's 2016 total.

THAT number actually makes sense to me as he campaigned less than Hillary and there was zero enthusiasm for the man and 62 million seems about right for a "vote Dem out of habit" level of enthusiasm candidate.

And frankly, the idea that Joe Biden would receive 120% of the votes Obama received in 2008 (and more than anyone in history save for Donald Trump) is ludicrous. Rather, all of the evidence adds up to MASSIVE fraud that was so sloppy (ex. multiple counties where three times the number of people voted as were actually registered... sudden batches of hundreds of thousands of ballots for Biden and Biden alone with nothing down ballot and none corresponding for President Trump... some vote totals in Virginia including fractional values because they forgot to round off... not having time to fill in the down ballot votes resulting in Republicans actually making massive gains in down ballot races... etc.) because the machine algorithms couldn't overcome President Trump's legitimate vote count.

As to "many don't like Trump"... yeah, probably 62+ million of them. But that doesn't negate that enough people came out every day to President Trump's rallies; a process that generally took the better part of an entire day due to crowd size and security; in 10-50+ thousands each in 3-5 locations each day all to chant "We Love You!" towards President Trump.

Similarly... if the Dems really had the popular vote, if there really was no fraud... they wouldn't need to flag and censor anyone even suggesting their might be problems. If their win was legit they'd have no problems proving what the real numbers were. Instead they gaslight, bully and try to do everything possible to keep the actual numbers from being looked at and demand their accounting just be taken on faith.

At this point, based on polling, more than HALF the country believes the election was stolen by the Democrats and every instance where they fight to prevent a real investigation just makes them look more and more guilty to more and more people.

Bush v. Gore wasn't decided until December 12th (three weeks from now) and this situation is VERY fluid. I wouldn't count any chickens one way or the other just yet.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 20, 2020, 03:28:20 PM
Greetings!

A message from renowned actor, John Voight.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK



I don't think anything good comes from this though. At the very least I'm pretty sure Trump lost the popular vote, and I think there is good reason to think that many Americans don't particularly like Trump's brash style as a president even if they don't like the far left either. If the Republicans lost the electorate college as well, well then they lost. I don't think his taxes being made public helped either. The effect of John Voight speaking of the devil and such would be somewhat similar to broadcasting AOC howling about socialism and toxic masculinity and hope that it will somehow help mend the wounds.
  popular vote means jack shit, always has.  I think taxes did not change anyone's mind, but I don't know.  I think there is any mending here.  Period.  Best thing for the parties involved is start working on a peaceful separation.  Biden, or his soon to be seated replacement is going to push hard on gun control, and that is going to be a match on gasoline.  If it turns out there was massive fraud and Trump stays, there will be chaos.  So either way, we are getting chaos.  Its a pick your flavor at the moment.  I think separation needs discussing either way.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 20, 2020, 04:23:14 PM
I don't think anything good comes from this though. At the very least I'm pretty sure Trump lost the popular vote, and I think there is good reason to think that many Americans don't particularly like Trump's brash style as a president even if they don't like the far left either. If the Republicans lost the electorate college as well, well then they lost. I don't think his taxes being made public helped either. The effect of John Voight speaking of the devil and such would be somewhat similar to broadcasting AOC howling about socialism and toxic masculinity and hope that it will somehow help mend the wounds.
Actually, if the vote-weighting algorithm numbers cited by Sidney and attested to in sworn witness and whistleblower affidavits (i.e. evidence as the courts define evidence) are correct (i.e. that the machines counted each Biden vote as 1.25 votes), then Biden's actual vote total is somewhere in the neighborhood of 62 million or a bit less than Hillary's 2016 total.

THAT number actually makes sense to me as he campaigned less than Hillary and there was zero enthusiasm for the man and 62 million seems about right for a "vote Dem out of habit" level of enthusiasm candidate.

And frankly, the idea that Joe Biden would receive 120% of the votes Obama received in 2008 (and more than anyone in history save for Donald Trump) is ludicrous. Rather, all of the evidence adds up to MASSIVE fraud that was so sloppy (ex. multiple counties where three times the number of people voted as were actually registered... sudden batches of hundreds of thousands of ballots for Biden and Biden alone with nothing down ballot and none corresponding for President Trump... some vote totals in Virginia including fractional values because they forgot to round off... not having time to fill in the down ballot votes resulting in Republicans actually making massive gains in down ballot races... etc.) because the machine algorithms couldn't overcome President Trump's legitimate vote count.

As to "many don't like Trump"... yeah, probably 62+ million of them. But that doesn't negate that enough people came out every day to President Trump's rallies; a process that generally took the better part of an entire day due to crowd size and security; in 10-50+ thousands each in 3-5 locations each day all to chant "We Love You!" towards President Trump.

Similarly... if the Dems really had the popular vote, if there really was no fraud... they wouldn't need to flag and censor anyone even suggesting their might be problems. If their win was legit they'd have no problems proving what the real numbers were. Instead they gaslight, bully and try to do everything possible to keep the actual numbers from being looked at and demand their accounting just be taken on faith.

At this point, based on polling, more than HALF the country believes the election was stolen by the Democrats and every instance where they fight to prevent a real investigation just makes them look more and more guilty to more and more people.

Bush v. Gore wasn't decided until December 12th (three weeks from now) and this situation is VERY fluid. I wouldn't count any chickens one way or the other just yet.

Greetings!

Excellent points, Chris! I agree. So much suspicious activity going on, and as you mentioned, the whole enthusiasm level that is different for Trump compared to Biden. The idea that Biden got more votes than Obama? Yeah, I'm not buying it either. Every election I have lived through, campaign enthusiasm has always been a crucial element to any competitive campaign, and essential to any electoral victory, especially in concerns to a national election.

The enthusiasm for President Trump is sky fucking high.

The enthusiasm for Biden is lukewarm and tepid. Even Democrats have expressed an ambivalence about voting for Biden.

There's just no way that Biden won this election.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 20, 2020, 04:27:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Jiqwb82.jpg)

These assignments are favorable for Trump.  Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn, and Georgia are assigned to Kavanaugh, Barrett, Alito, and Thomas.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 20, 2020, 04:40:28 PM

The enthusiasm for Biden is lukewarm and tepid. Even Democrats have expressed an ambivalence about voting for Biden.

There's just no way that Biden won this election.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

But the Democrats had no ambivalence about voting against Trump. While you say there's no way that Biden won this election, that's only the side order--what they wanted is to ensure that Trump lost. The two results are identical in outcome, but since we're talking about motivations...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 20, 2020, 04:42:56 PM


Greetings!

Excellent points, Chris! I agree. So much suspicious activity going on, and as you mentioned, the whole enthusiasm level that is different for Trump compared to Biden. The idea that Biden got more votes than Obama? Yeah, I'm not buying it either. Every election I have lived through, campaign enthusiasm has always been a crucial element to any competitive campaign, and essential to any electoral victory, especially in concerns to a national election.

The enthusiasm for President Trump is sky fucking high.

The enthusiasm for Biden is lukewarm and tepid. Even Democrats have expressed an ambivalence about voting for Biden.

There's just no way that Biden won this election.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Well, the only thing that can reveal this is an investigation, so we will see. Sorry to say, but I definitely think it is possible they really won, despite sleepy Joe, for this reason: the media were MASSIVELY on the Democratic side. Among my leftist friends I saw a flurry of memes like "vote as if your life depends on it, because it does". And I think they did. On top of that, Trump does have that tendency rub people the wrong way. All I am saying is that, sure, recount and investigate and do all that. But I don't think that it's impossible that the Dems won.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 20, 2020, 05:01:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Jiqwb82.jpg)

These assignments are favorable for Trump.  Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn, and Georgia are assigned to Kavanaugh, Barrett, Alito, and Thomas.
At the risk of looking a bit dense, what's this in reference to?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 20, 2020, 05:29:52 PM
Which Supreme Court justice has direct oversight of which court circuit.

As an example, Kavanaugh can influence how quickly an issue from Michigan comes before the Supreme Court.  They have other powers as well, to issue certain stays, etc.

This is why Alito was the justice telling PA to segregate certain ballots.

Point being, that the post-Barrett finalization of circuit assignments has originalists overseeing most of the jurisdictions disputes exist in
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 20, 2020, 06:23:53 PM


Greetings!

Excellent points, Chris! I agree. So much suspicious activity going on, and as you mentioned, the whole enthusiasm level that is different for Trump compared to Biden. The idea that Biden got more votes than Obama? Yeah, I'm not buying it either. Every election I have lived through, campaign enthusiasm has always been a crucial element to any competitive campaign, and essential to any electoral victory, especially in concerns to a national election.

The enthusiasm for President Trump is sky fucking high.

The enthusiasm for Biden is lukewarm and tepid. Even Democrats have expressed an ambivalence about voting for Biden.

There's just no way that Biden won this election.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Well, the only thing that can reveal this is an investigation, so we will see. Sorry to say, but I definitely think it is possible they really won, despite sleepy Joe, for this reason: the media were MASSIVELY on the Democratic side. Among my leftist friends I saw a flurry of memes like "vote as if your life depends on it, because it does". And I think they did. On top of that, Trump does have that tendency rub people the wrong way. All I am saying is that, sure, recount and investigate and do all that. But I don't think that it's impossible that the Dems won.
Oh I think Biden could have won, I knew he could and likely would win as soon as mail in ballots were used en masse.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 20, 2020, 06:57:49 PM
I don't think anything good comes from this though. At the very least I'm pretty sure Trump lost the popular vote, and I think there is good reason to think that many Americans don't particularly like Trump's brash style as a president even if they don't like the far left either. If the Republicans lost the electorate college as well, well then they lost. I don't think his taxes being made public helped either. The effect of John Voight speaking of the devil and such would be somewhat similar to broadcasting AOC howling about socialism and toxic masculinity and hope that it will somehow help mend the wounds.
Actually, if the vote-weighting algorithm numbers cited by Sidney and attested to in sworn witness and whistleblower affidavits (i.e. evidence as the courts define evidence) are correct (i.e. that the machines counted each Biden vote as 1.25 votes), then Biden's actual vote total is somewhere in the neighborhood of 62 million or a bit less than Hillary's 2016 total.

THAT number actually makes sense to me as he campaigned less than Hillary and there was zero enthusiasm for the man and 62 million seems about right for a "vote Dem out of habit" level of enthusiasm candidate.

And frankly, the idea that Joe Biden would receive 120% of the votes Obama received in 2008 (and more than anyone in history save for Donald Trump) is ludicrous. Rather, all of the evidence adds up to MASSIVE fraud that was so sloppy (ex. multiple counties where three times the number of people voted as were actually registered... sudden batches of hundreds of thousands of ballots for Biden and Biden alone with nothing down ballot and none corresponding for President Trump... some vote totals in Virginia including fractional values because they forgot to round off... not having time to fill in the down ballot votes resulting in Republicans actually making massive gains in down ballot races... etc.) because the machine algorithms couldn't overcome President Trump's legitimate vote count.

As to "many don't like Trump"... yeah, probably 62+ million of them. But that doesn't negate that enough people came out every day to President Trump's rallies; a process that generally took the better part of an entire day due to crowd size and security; in 10-50+ thousands each in 3-5 locations each day all to chant "We Love You!" towards President Trump.

Similarly... if the Dems really had the popular vote, if there really was no fraud... they wouldn't need to flag and censor anyone even suggesting their might be problems. If their win was legit they'd have no problems proving what the real numbers were. Instead they gaslight, bully and try to do everything possible to keep the actual numbers from being looked at and demand their accounting just be taken on faith.

At this point, based on polling, more than HALF the country believes the election was stolen by the Democrats and every instance where they fight to prevent a real investigation just makes them look more and more guilty to more and more people.

Bush v. Gore wasn't decided until December 12th (three weeks from now) and this situation is VERY fluid. I wouldn't count any chickens one way or the other just yet.

So that skewed 1.25 Biden vote claim is the “kraken” that they are supposed to release soon?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 20, 2020, 06:59:43 PM
The evidence will be brought into court.  We cannot know about it till court date unless we want the evidence to be tampered with.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 20, 2020, 08:32:24 PM
The evidence will be brought into court.  We cannot know about it till court date unless we want the evidence to be tampered with.
I'll bet you ten-internets the courts fail this country.
fnord.

And then, the info dump came out:
https://twitter.com/JoannaBouras/status/1329456083681865733
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/fbi-agents-arrest-cincinnati-democrat-accepting-bribes-exchange-votes/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/huge-attorney-sidney-powell-coinfirms-alleged-dominion-servers-germany-confiscated-video/
https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1329507244270968832
https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1329507246380707840
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-dominion-voting-systems-backs-testifying-pennsylvania-state-house-committee-hiding/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-exclusive-steal-massive-expert-reveals-hundreds-thousands-trump-votes-shifted-biden-election-night/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 20, 2020, 09:36:08 PM
I am not taking that bet.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 21, 2020, 04:50:17 AM
Yesterday, Sidney Powell lays out her opening statement.
Today, the Supreme Court is on the move in the key fraud states.
Funny how that works.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 21, 2020, 04:57:15 AM
The more the media screams, the more faith I gain in Trump's victory.

If Biden had won with the margins they claim, there would be no panic around recounts and audits. But not only are we seeing outright panic, we're seeing the media (and their Twatter surrogates) becoming unhinged. Screaming at VP Pence today in his press conference like total loons was fun to watch because it was so telling.

THEY KNOW...and they can't stop the Trump Train.

What's especially enjoyable about the media panic is their realization that like the fraud, they doubled down too hard and allowed their bias to become too obvious so that even the sleepers are slowly opening their eyes wondering what's happening.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on November 21, 2020, 10:17:34 AM
The roaches are starting to look for cover...

https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-dominion-backs-out-of-hearing-before-penn-legislature?fbclid=IwAR2xV-By-hfJ7aS-W6IuPSx2jYG9uNcbQEHkVKVprEHNCjWWmQCMnWxhZrg
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on November 21, 2020, 10:19:02 AM
Funny how people see what they want to see.

Anyone see Tucker Carlson's bit about Sidney Powell? He contacted her several times to present proof and she didn't, but threw a tantrum and told him to leave her alone.

People are not mad at Trump because they're scared he's got a case - everyone knows he doesn't. They're mad because he's fucking everyone by stalling the transition of power, and the the threat that he's going to try to stay in office unlawfully. Only his weak-brained drones still believe that he won the election, and they'll lap up anything he says. It is rather pathetic, like the idiots running the asylum.

Meanwhile, the liberal media keeps focusing on Trump's ongoing tantrum, ignoring that Biden is creating a centrist warhawk administration and screwing progressives, and thereby the American people. Trump's far worse, but fuck Biden too.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on November 21, 2020, 10:21:53 AM
Yes, and Tucker is wrong. No good attorney would reveal their evidence to news media before it is presented in court. People see what they want to see indeed.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: TrekkieKT on November 21, 2020, 11:13:13 AM
Is it really that hard to believe that a small proportion of Republicans (~5%) looked at Donald Trump.
Looked at his personality.
Looked at what his administration has done in the last four years..
Looked how he's treated people while they're in his administration and after they've left.
Looked at how his administration has handled Covid-19.
Looked at everything that's happened over the last 4 years of Donald J. Trump being President of the United States of America.

And getting into the voting booth or filling out their absentee ballot and going "I don't want to give him four more years".

Then voting Biden or Jorgenson for President and Republican down the rest of the ticket?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 21, 2020, 11:20:49 AM
The roaches are starting to look for cover...

https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-dominion-backs-out-of-hearing-before-penn-legislature?fbclid=IwAR2xV-By-hfJ7aS-W6IuPSx2jYG9uNcbQEHkVKVprEHNCjWWmQCMnWxhZrg
So if Trump "lawyers up," it's good, but if those he's accusing of wrongdoing "lawyers up," it's bad? Isn't this a typical response when in a legal fight?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 21, 2020, 11:25:42 AM
Is it really that hard to believe that a small proportion of Republicans (~5%) looked at Donald Trump.
Looked at his personality.
Looked at what his administration has done in the last four years..
Looked how he's treated people while they're in his administration and after they've left.
Looked at how his administration has handled Covid-19.
Looked at everything that's happened over the last 4 years of Donald J. Trump being President of the United States of America.

And getting into the voting booth or filling out their absentee ballot and going "I don't want to give him four more years".

Then voting Biden or Jorgenson for President and Republican down the rest of the ticket?
Or Kanye? He wasn't on the ballot in my state, but I had hopes for the guy.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 21, 2020, 12:11:51 PM
Meanwhile, the liberal media keeps focusing on Trump's ongoing tantrum, ignoring that Biden is creating a centrist warhawk administration and screwing progressives, and thereby the American people. Trump's far worse, but fuck Biden too.

Does that mean that he is giving AOC and her cronies the cold shoulder? If so, then so far so good.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on November 21, 2020, 01:48:55 PM
The roaches are starting to look for cover...

https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-dominion-backs-out-of-hearing-before-penn-legislature?fbclid=IwAR2xV-By-hfJ7aS-W6IuPSx2jYG9uNcbQEHkVKVprEHNCjWWmQCMnWxhZrg
So if Trump "lawyers up," it's good, but if those he's accusing of wrongdoing "lawyers up," it's bad? Isn't this a typical response when in a legal fight?

I made no statement about good or bad, particularly about Trump lawyering up, you are assuming an awful lot. The timing is telling, considering it was just a fact finding hearing, not a criminal indictment (nor could it be in and of itself). Everyone is entitled to legal counsel at a trial, but a hearing is a much looser thing. Either way, lawyer up or not, when you have worked with the CIA to subvert other countries elections, you are a roach.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 21, 2020, 02:16:22 PM
Funny how people see what they want to see.

Anyone see Tucker Carlson's bit about Sidney Powell? He contacted her several times to present proof and she didn't, but threw a tantrum and told him to leave her alone.

People are not mad at Trump because they're scared he's got a case - everyone knows he doesn't. They're mad because he's fucking everyone by stalling the transition of power, and the the threat that he's going to try to stay in office unlawfully. Only his weak-brained drones still believe that he won the election, and they'll lap up anything he says. It is rather pathetic, like the idiots running the asylum.

Meanwhile, the liberal media keeps focusing on Trump's ongoing tantrum, ignoring that Biden is creating a centrist warhawk administration and screwing progressives, and thereby the American people. Trump's far worse, but fuck Biden too.
  What happens if Trump tells those weak minded drones to unleash and go ham?  If he says its 1776 to feed his huge ego?  How many take action?  What then?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 21, 2020, 02:57:43 PM
The evidence will be brought into court.  We cannot know about it till court date unless we want the evidence to be tampered with.
I'll bet you ten-internets the courts fail this country.
fnord.

And then, the info dump came out:
https://twitter.com/JoannaBouras/status/1329456083681865733
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/fbi-agents-arrest-cincinnati-democrat-accepting-bribes-exchange-votes/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/huge-attorney-sidney-powell-coinfirms-alleged-dominion-servers-germany-confiscated-video/
https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1329507244270968832
https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1329507246380707840
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-dominion-voting-systems-backs-testifying-pennsylvania-state-house-committee-hiding/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-exclusive-steal-massive-expert-reveals-hundreds-thousands-trump-votes-shifted-biden-election-night/

I take it consolcwby thinks that the courts will not find that Trump won the election, and I tend to agree.

There's way too many claims in these links for me to look into. To me, the most notable among those is the claim that the U.S. Army seized Scytl server in Germany that fraudulent votes were routed through. If that is true, I'd expect some sort of official explanation upcoming, and I'm sure that evidence will make it into court - as it should. On the other hand, if it is false - then it goes towards discrediting those claiming it.


  What happens if Trump tells those weak minded drones to unleash and go ham?  If he says its 1776 to feed his huge ego?  How many take action?  What then?

If this were to happen, I would expect that there would be some pockets of violence. Contrary to some boogaloo predictions, I don't think that any significant branch of the military would switch to supporting civil war, so the action would be isolated, guerilla-style. I expect that the vast majority will not support violence against the incoming Biden administration, and the violence would reduce the popularity of Trumpism.

Following up on an off-topic point with oggsmash,

I have also never heard of a trans person attacking a woman in the restroom, and never even suggested such.  I have, on several occasions from real life LEOs heard accounts of predators attacking women in the women's restroom in public restrooms.  This is the same reason I do go with my 9yo son anytime he has to go to the bathroom, because there have also been kids (boys in this case) attacked by predators in the men's restroom.

It's an off-topic point. My main point is just that trans people are not a danger or unfit to be around children - and do not deserve to be beaten up for going to the restroom at the same time as a child. Your point seems compatible with that, and I don't care as much about further nuance.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 21, 2020, 03:27:14 PM
People are not mad at Trump because they're scared he's got a case - everyone knows he doesn't. They're mad because he's fucking everyone by stalling the transition of power,

Trump is under no legal compulsion to concede. Concession is a nicety usually granted when a race isn't close and/or contested. This race was razor thin, and is contested.
Biden can wait his legal turn, and his supporters can just be patient.

Quote
and the the threat that he's going to try to stay in office unlawfully.

The media has exaggerated this to the point of ludicrousness, and people are eating it up. They love to play-pretend that Trump's going to be physically dragged out of the White House while people throw rotten tomatoes at him. It's quite a demented revenge-porn daydream.

Quote
Only his weak-brained drones still believe that he won the election, and they'll lap up anything he says. It is rather pathetic, like the idiots running the asylum.

Meanwhile, the liberal media keeps focusing on Trump's ongoing tantrum, ignoring that Biden is creating a centrist warhawk administration and screwing progressives, and thereby the American people. Trump's far worse, but fuck Biden too.

I think Biden is way worse. He supported Title IX and VAWA excesses that infringed on due process rights, he supported the Iraq war, and I imagine under Biden we'll be going back to the middle-east to blow up brown people in order to raise gas prices, and he'll be the George Bridges of the White House, rubber stamping all kinds of Critical Theory based sexism and racism.

Meanwhile, Trump talked a lot of stupid shit, but appointed Betsy DeVos, who fought for due process rights, Trump tried to get us out of the middle-east, and made (AFAIK) the first official move to get racist and sexist Critical Theory out of our government agencies.

I think Biden is going to be a disaster, and so I hope that Trump (or somebody) can pull a rabbit out of a hat.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 21, 2020, 05:17:10 PM

So while we're better off than we were in the 1970s, it can feel like the average worker is falling behind. That's because they are. The workers haven't shared fully in the economy growth. Their slice is bigger in overall terms, but it's a smaller part of the overall pie.

Adjusted for Inflation from 1952 the average home price has risen 3.5 times. The cost of the average car has doubled, as have stamps, while college tuition has risen eight times.  Food is a mixed bag, and has mostly remained stable.

Meanwhile, average incomes have fallen to HALF. 


I'm sorry, but halved income and doubling or more of necessities such as homes, is not 'a bigger slice'.   If I have to work SEVEN TIMES as hard just to keep a roof over my head compared to the previous generation, then by no fucking definition am I doing better.  By no definition am I doing 'the same'. 

I'll remind you that the first fundamental principle of survival is shelter. Its also the base of the heirarchy of needs. This isn't some pissant nuisance like the cost of a fucking iPhone, or the price of gas (Mostly stable, 1% increase).

Pull the other one, its got bells.
That's complete nonsense. The average cost of homes has gone up, but so has the size of the homes. This isn't a case of a carton of milk costing three times as much as it used to, in real dollars. It's that we're now buying 3 cartons instead of 1. As people have gotten richer, they've decided they want to spent more of their money on comforts, like more living space. And if you compare living space per person, it's jumped even more, because family sizes have gotten smaller.

https://www.newser.com/story/225645/average-size-of-us-homes-decade-by-decade.html

No serious economist disputes that standards of living have improved, since the 1970s. Here are two wage curves, one from a left leaning site, one from a right leaning site:
https://www.epi.org/blog/professor-hubbards-claim-about-wage-and-compensation-stagnation-is-not-true/
https://www.heritage.org/jobs-and-labor/report/productivity-and-compensation-growing-together

The first one is fairly flat. Things haven't gotten much better, but things haven't gotten worse, in real dollars.  Though as I mentioned, that doesn't include improvements in existing products, like how much better TVs and computers are today than they were 3 decades ago, so it's an underestimate. The second curve slopes up a bit, and that's because it tracks total compensation, not just wages. Due to favorable tax exemptions, more of our income is included in benefits, like healthcare, rather than in a direct salary. Note it doesn't account for the improvements, either. So wages, and especially overall compensation, have increased (though slower than the overall growth in the economy, as I covered in my previous post).

What's changed is well illustrated by the housing example: People's expectations have risen, even faster. People expect a car per person, larger houses, a TV in every room, eating out or prepared food every night, and so on. They feel poorer because they're greedier and more demanding, not because things have gotten worse.

You can certainly make an argument that healthcare and education in particular have gotten more expensive, but that's a long separate discussion. We'd have to talk about the nearly 1:1 correspondence between government subsidies in education and increases in cost, and the huge rise in administrative staff. And in health care, we'd have to talk about the third party payer system, the distortions of Medicare, and the way the US subsidizes drugs and research for countries around the world. And for both, we'd have to talk about how the allocation of spending changes as the population gets richer.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on November 21, 2020, 09:53:42 PM
Becuase they have nothing to hide and are in charge of many of the voting machines used in this Presidential Election. For the record I wouldn't trust any company founded in Central America to be in charge of anything North American, However here we are. Also super sad that it seems the President is correct and our recent election election has been seriously tampered with. (Mostly sad because he is not close to good enough to lead our nation, however doubly sad, because the deck is stacked, even against him and would be stacked against a competent or good candidate as well.  Shows how corrupt everything inside the beltway is.).

Dominion Voting Systems Lawyers up and abruptly backs out of a Pennsylvania State House fact-finding hearing, the same day Donald Trumps PA Court Challenges are thrown out by a biased judge.
https://amgreatness.com/2020/11/20/dominion-voting-systems-lawyers-up-abruptly-backs-out-of-pa-state-house-fact-finding-hearing/?fbclid=IwAR0lr6efCfNiHdnLaopTG8y4FhmcgyUHw_n70pol1ddDHFxakgMGQy2O9Xg

Also sad because sharing is the only way to get real news. I feel like I'm living in a communist country. Lines in commercial stores, real news from street people because the press and media can no longer be trusted to convey real information, facts, and real events as they occur to the common people.

 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on November 21, 2020, 11:04:24 PM
People are not mad at Trump because they're scared he's got a case - everyone knows he doesn't. They're mad because he's fucking everyone by stalling the transition of power,

Trump is under no legal compulsion to concede. Concession is a nicety usually granted when a race isn't close and/or contested. This race was razor thin, and is contested.
Biden can wait his legal turn, and his supporters can just be patient.

Quote
and the the threat that he's going to try to stay in office unlawfully.

The media has exaggerated this to the point of ludicrousness, and people are eating it up. They love to play-pretend that Trump's going to be physically dragged out of the White House while people throw rotten tomatoes at him. It's quite a demented revenge-porn daydream.

Quote
Only his weak-brained drones still believe that he won the election, and they'll lap up anything he says. It is rather pathetic, like the idiots running the asylum.

Meanwhile, the liberal media keeps focusing on Trump's ongoing tantrum, ignoring that Biden is creating a centrist warhawk administration and screwing progressives, and thereby the American people. Trump's far worse, but fuck Biden too.

I think Biden is way worse. He supported Title IX and VAWA excesses that infringed on due process rights, he supported the Iraq war, and I imagine under Biden we'll be going back to the middle-east to blow up brown people in order to raise gas prices, and he'll be the George Bridges of the White House, rubber stamping all kinds of Critical Theory based sexism and racism.

Meanwhile, Trump talked a lot of stupid shit, but appointed Betsy DeVos, who fought for due process rights, Trump tried to get us out of the middle-east, and made (AFAIK) the first official move to get racist and sexist Critical Theory out of our government agencies.

I think Biden is going to be a disaster, and so I hope that Trump (or somebody) can pull a rabbit out of a hat.

  I have to agree, a statement about trump being FAR worse than Biden is certainly not looking at history, facts, and damn sure not from someone who has been in the military and suddenly realized they are also in a war.   I suppose some people trivialize blowing people up for no reason past GE and Lockheed Martin need to sell some merch, I also suspect since they do not get a George Floyd style graphic video as to what a battle field and modern war wounds look like when received real time, they get their priorities all muddled.   I think there should be graphic broadcasts by the media as to what war looks like in real time, in the battles, and I have a feeling we would have no public support ever again for nutty foreign adventures.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 21, 2020, 11:25:02 PM
What happens if Trump tells those weak minded drones to unleash and go ham?  If he says its 1776 to feed his huge ego?  How many take action?  What then?

Balkanization and/or civil war is on its way, regardless of the election.

The Democrats have proven they will use a laughable amount of election fraud to get their way and if Trump's legal team isn't victorious, election fraud will be the election system of the future. Empowered by their "victory", the Left will go hog wild pushing their communist bullshit. They have overplayed their hand and they will double down on overplaying.

Whether or not Trump calls for 1776 2.0, its already being discussed louder with each passing day, especially as more Democrat governors keep LARPing Corona-Dictator and Biden's press conferences promise even more misery.

You never know where the spark of revolution might be lit. It may be the election fraud, it may be poverty caused by the lockdowns, or it may be something that appears minor, but becomes the final straw for men of action.

It's hard for leftists to imagine men of action exist because they're urbanites eating microwaved chicken tendies and anyone who isn't a leftist is just a "dumb poor hill billy" without any thought that guys who shoot deer - and don't hate the deer - are going to be equally good at shooting when the target is something they truly hate and seek to destroy.

As for the military revolting and/or putting down a revolt, there's enough patriots still in the military to ensure that the infrastructure necessary for the military to overwhelm the people is broken beyond repair.

Finally, there's this delusion that you need 100 million people to take down Biden's clown car. If 99% of America sits home, 1% is 3.3 million people. If only 1% of those people take action, that's 33,000 active shooters. If 10% of America provides "comfort and support" to those shooters, that's 33 million sympathetic supporters who will help to hide them, supply them and make sure they win.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 22, 2020, 12:34:31 AM
This was funny.
https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1329563673917009920

Mike Pence delivers an update from the Coronavirus Task Force, and then just walks away without taking any questions. Because he didn't stick around to take their abuse, the clowns in the White House press corp completely flipped out, and ended up shouting accusations at an empty room.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 22, 2020, 12:56:07 AM
Biden's so magical that he keeps on getting statistically impossible voting numbers.

98% out of a 23k batch! That fat boi in North Korea be jealous!!



The presenter is dull, but thorough. It's easy math to follow.

Of course, 98% of 23,487 votes is totally understandable and absolutely no evidence of anything, most especially no evidence of election tampering.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on November 22, 2020, 08:29:10 AM
Funny how people see what they want to see.

Anyone see Tucker Carlson's bit about Sidney Powell? He contacted her several times to present proof and she didn't, but threw a tantrum and told him to leave her alone.

People are not mad at Trump because they're scared he's got a case - everyone knows he doesn't. They're mad because he's fucking everyone by stalling the transition of power, and the the threat that he's going to try to stay in office unlawfully. Only his weak-brained drones still believe that he won the election, and they'll lap up anything he says. It is rather pathetic, like the idiots running the asylum.

Meanwhile, the liberal media keeps focusing on Trump's ongoing tantrum, ignoring that Biden is creating a centrist warhawk administration and screwing progressives, and thereby the American people. Trump's far worse, but fuck Biden too.

How true. Susan Rice is the lead-off batter for Biden's starting lineup and her record is every bit as disgusting as Mike Pompeo's -only Pompeo's apologists never stooped to hiding his crimes behind his gender. Susan Rice's pet project was to use Al Qaeda (remember them from 9/11?) to overthrow Assad in Syria and Qadaffi in Libya. Rice's new friends were so vile (selling girls as sex slaves, beheading little boys, etc) that they turned a thug like Assad into a national hero, since he killed the head-choppers and rapists by the bushel.

In order to gin up war fever in Libya, Susan Rice concocted a Goebbelian lie that was as racist as it was absurd: that Qadaffi had hired black mercenaries, issued them Viagra and ordered them to commit rape (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/amnesty-questions-claim-that-gaddafi-ordered-rape-as-weapon-of-war-2302037.html). David Duke would have been hard-pressed to dream up a lie so racist and perverted.  Rania Khalek describes what happened in Libya here:



Who needs Mike Pompeo or Elliott Abrams with this sort of bloodthirsty ghoul on the loose? Here's more on what Rice did to Libya:

LINK (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-continues_b_9682562)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on November 22, 2020, 02:15:10 PM
I dunno, I think I may be going crazy... hearing voices and shit.

I keep seeing this conversation play out, where someone alleges fraud, someone else asks for proof or evidence or what have you, and then someone else provides a link to a source (lots of different sources so far)...

But here is the crazy part. Every single time they do someone always seems to post (or say, in real life convos)...

"It didn't come from Pravda, so I don't believe it."

I can't be hearing that, can I?  I mean... Pravda isn't even an American news source!  And I keep seeing it, all the time! From different posters, in response to different claims and different sources of different evidence and different claims. Over and over and over again. 

If my dog starts telling me he's Satan, I'm gonna have to seek professional help...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on November 22, 2020, 02:18:48 PM
I'm apparently hearing the same voices... lol. The genetic fallacy is one of the most abused fallacies on the internet...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on November 22, 2020, 02:21:24 PM
Meanwhile, the liberal media keeps focusing on Trump's ongoing tantrum, ignoring that Biden is creating a centrist warhawk administration and screwing progressives, and thereby the American people. Trump's far worse, but fuck Biden too.


How true. Susan Rice is the lead-off batter for Biden's starting lineup and her record is every bit as disgusting as Mike Pompeo's -only Pompeo's apologists never stooped to hiding his crimes behind his gender. Susan Rice's pet project was to use Al Qaeda (remember them from 9/11?) to overthrow Assad in Syria and Qadaffi in Libya. Rice's new friends were so vile (selling girls as sex slaves, beheading little boys, etc) that they turned a thug like Assad into a national hero, since he killed the head-choppers and rapists by the bushel.

In order to gin up war fever in Libya, Susan Rice concocted a Goebbelian lie that was as racist as it was absurd: that Qadaffi had hired black mercenaries, issued them Viagra and ordered them to commit rape (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/amnesty-questions-claim-that-gaddafi-ordered-rape-as-weapon-of-war-2302037.html). David Duke would have been hard-pressed to dream up a lie so racist and perverted. 

You two should be happy.  You're getting what you voted for.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 22, 2020, 03:40:33 PM
You two should be happy.  You're getting what you voted for.
It'll be interesting to watch the anti-war contingent (assuming they weren't utterly purged during Obama's presidency) try to square the circle of 'Biden is a good boi' with him sending troops into Syria, etc.

Say what you will about Trump; he didn't start any new wars, smoked a couple high value targets with precision strikes, and has been at least trying to bring the troops home (the revelation that the State Department was subverting his orders on getting soldiers out of Syria pisses me off).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 23, 2020, 03:26:29 AM
Greetings!

FEC Chairman Trey Trainor discusses how fraud has been confirmed in the 2020 election, and can be seen in video.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 23, 2020, 07:49:07 AM
Greetings!

FEC Chairman Trey Trainor discusses how fraud has been confirmed in the 2020 election, and can be seen in video.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


So again Trainor gets his position emphasized without mentioning that his role has nothing to do with elections outside of campaign finances. Monitoring the election process and alleged fraud in that process isn't in his bailiwick, so his title is rather meaningless in such context.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 23, 2020, 10:34:30 AM

So again Trainor gets his position emphasized without mentioning that his role has nothing to do with elections outside of campaign finances. Monitoring the election process and alleged fraud in that process isn't in his bailiwick, so his title is rather meaningless in such context.

No matter who says it, the way Republican observers were handled at a few places smells fishy. I still don't think it's enough to turn the vote around though.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 23, 2020, 10:52:25 AM
This (https://breatheact.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/The-BREATHE-Act-V.16_.pdf) is the future the left chose.

The irony is that there's a few decent ideas in this mess (I have nothing but loathing for civil asset forfeiture). But most of it is so laughable, and of course, the spawn of a liberal mind.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 23, 2020, 11:53:46 AM
I'm reading The Big Sort, which discusses how the US has been voluntarily segregating itself into politically monolithic communities since the 1970s, leading to a rise in polarization. The book was published in 2009, but switch the names and dates, and this part could have been written about the 2020 election:

Quote from: The Big Sort by Bill Bishop, p. 249-50
There were some snafus throughout Election Day 2004, but a major problem with the exit polls turned out to be a human reaction: Republicans sometimes refused to answer the queries of pollsters. Bush supporters were particularly unwilling to answer questions posed by young interviewers with graduate degrees.... This factor alone caused an undercount of Bush's votes. Kerry's supporters were inclined to talk with young, educated interviewers, and so Kerry's vote was systematically overstated.

The pollsters also carried paperwork and notebooks bearing the logos of the  major news outlets sponsoring the survey. Republican voters may have so mistrusted the major news media that this association, too, led some to avoid the pollsters.
The more things change, the more they remain the same.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Manic Modron on November 23, 2020, 11:56:14 AM
DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 23, 2020, 12:12:39 PM
It'll be interesting to watch the anti-war contingent (assuming they weren't utterly purged during Obama's presidency) try to square the circle of 'Biden is a good boi' with him sending troops into Syria, etc.

Say what you will about Trump; he didn't start any new wars, smoked a couple high value targets with precision strikes, and has been at least trying to bring the troops home (the revelation that the State Department was subverting his orders on getting soldiers out of Syria pisses me off).

My impression is that plenty of liberals don't believe "Biden is a good boi" -- they just think he's a lesser evil than Trump. They've been holding back criticisms because they didn't want to hurt election chances, but now they're more willing to speak out against Biden.

I agree that Trump has done well to not start new wars - but he also vetoed a bipartisan bill to end U.S. hostilities in Yemen, for example. I would hope that the same forces that pushed Trump to be less hawkish will also push Biden to be less hawkish. If both Republican and Democrat voters sour on the idea of foreign wars, they will influence the legislature and administration.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on November 23, 2020, 04:12:13 PM
How's that attempt to throw out Democrat black votes in PA going? (https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/supreme-court-declines-to-take-action-on-trumps-pennsylvania-appeal-prior-to-certification-of-biden-win/)

Quote
Supreme Court declines to take action on Trump’s Pennsylvania appeal prior to certification of Biden win

Published 2 hours ago

on November 23, 2020

By David Edwards

The Supreme Court of the United States on Monday took no action to overturn a lower court decision that allowed the counting of late-arriving mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania.

President Donald Trump’s campaign had sought to exclude mail-in ballots that arrived after election day.

In 4-4 decision in October, the high court upheld the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s ruling that said ballots postmarked by election day can arrive up to three days after the election.

The court later handed the Trump campaign a victory with an order saying that late-arriving ballots must be segregated before being counted.

The Trump campaign had hoped that the Supreme Court would hear the case prior to Pennsylvania’s certification of the 2020 election.

But on Monday, the court’s regular order list for its November 20 conference did not include any action on the case.

The court could take action at its December 4 conference, which is after Pennsylvania’s November 23 deadline for counties to certify the election.

So where's the next large pool of minority voters Trump can try to get disqualified? Michigan is out, Pennsylvania is out. They already Ku Kluxed over 200,000 black voters off the rolls before the 2018 elections in Georgia, so that's dead-end, too. My guess is that Trump and Giuliani will demand that all those Apache, Navajo and other aboriginal voters who helped put Biden over in Arizona, Wisconsin and Nevada (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-native-american-voters-2020-election_n_5fad7436c5b635e9dea00c76) prove they're native-born.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 23, 2020, 05:04:28 PM
Michigan just certified Biden's win there.

Trumps lawsuits have been dismissed or settled.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 23, 2020, 05:11:26 PM
Michigan just certified Biden's win there.

Trumps lawsuits have been dismissed or settled.
So where does that leave DJT?
(https://media.tenor.com/images/9f15c6ff9bac55efd718a0c8585121b9/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 23, 2020, 05:16:03 PM
How's that attempt to throw out Democrat black votes in PA going? (https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/supreme-court-declines-to-take-action-on-trumps-pennsylvania-appeal-prior-to-certification-of-biden-win/)

Quote
Supreme Court declines to take action on Trump’s Pennsylvania appeal prior to certification of Biden win

Published 2 hours ago

on November 23, 2020

By David Edwards

The Supreme Court of the United States on Monday took no action to overturn a lower court decision that allowed the counting of late-arriving mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania.

President Donald Trump’s campaign had sought to exclude mail-in ballots that arrived after election day.

In 4-4 decision in October, the high court upheld the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s ruling that said ballots postmarked by election day can arrive up to three days after the election.

The court later handed the Trump campaign a victory with an order saying that late-arriving ballots must be segregated before being counted.

The Trump campaign had hoped that the Supreme Court would hear the case prior to Pennsylvania’s certification of the 2020 election.

But on Monday, the court’s regular order list for its November 20 conference did not include any action on the case.

The court could take action at its December 4 conference, which is after Pennsylvania’s November 23 deadline for counties to certify the election.

So where's the next large pool of minority voters Trump can try to get disqualified? Michigan is out, Pennsylvania is out. They already Ku Kluxed over 200,000 black voters off the rolls before the 2018 elections in Georgia, so that's dead-end, too. My guess is that Trump and Giuliani will demand that all those Apache, Navajo and other aboriginal voters who helped put Biden over in Arizona, Wisconsin and Nevada (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-native-american-voters-2020-election_n_5fad7436c5b635e9dea00c76) prove they're native-born.

Almost perfect, but you forgot to spit on black conservatives and call them house n****s.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 23, 2020, 06:41:29 PM
Trump administration beginning Biden transition protocols. (https://www.npr.org/2020/11/23/937956178/trump-administration-to-begin-biden-transition-protocols?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR20Aygsk1i1FH7iBBklAcplRvMkQg3ol6C0iwzRD_sF8JC7momgapWTWwY)

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on November 23, 2020, 07:14:39 PM
Almost perfect, but you forgot to spit on black conservatives and call them house n****s.

You're being silly.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 23, 2020, 07:22:02 PM
Trump administration beginning Biden transition protocols. (https://www.npr.org/2020/11/23/937956178/trump-administration-to-begin-biden-transition-protocols?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR20Aygsk1i1FH7iBBklAcplRvMkQg3ol6C0iwzRD_sF8JC7momgapWTWwY)

How dissapointing. The Democrats and the media promised me a spectacle where Trump tried to become Emperor. I want my money back!

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 23, 2020, 08:01:17 PM
We'll see if Sidney Powell can deliver on her promises. Based on the affidavit bits she's already released, the media is in for a big surprise.

Also, there's this fun media delusion that only Trump's campaign can sue the states and undue the bullshit certification of their fraud. Nope. Any group of citizens can take action and those are already underway in multiple states. That's actually the most interesting part of Sidney "going rogue" beyond Rudy's team.

Let the media believe the "transition team" means something. The more they gaslight their audience, the more fun Sidney's victory will be.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 23, 2020, 08:03:01 PM
Almost perfect, but you forgot to spit on black conservatives and call them house n****s.

For leftists, that's called a day that ends in y.

Also, if they didn't vote for Biden, they're not black anymore.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 23, 2020, 08:25:04 PM
We'll see if Sidney Powell can deliver on her promises. Based on the affidavit bits she's already released, the media is in for a big surprise.

Also, there's this fun media delusion that only Trump's campaign can sue the states and undue the bullshit certification of their fraud. Nope. Any group of citizens can take action and those are already underway in multiple states. That's actually the most interesting part of Sidney "going rogue" beyond Rudy's team.

Let the media believe the "transition team" means something. The more they gaslight their audience, the more fun Sidney's victory will be.
Yes, hitch your hopes on a conspiracy nutter that's too extreme for even Giuliani...

Your desperation is delicious.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on November 23, 2020, 08:42:13 PM
We'll see if Sidney Powell can deliver on her promises. Based on the affidavit bits she's already released, the media is in for a big surprise.

Also, there's this fun media delusion that only Trump's campaign can sue the states and undue the bullshit certification of their fraud. Nope. Any group of citizens can take action and those are already underway in multiple states. That's actually the most interesting part of Sidney "going rogue" beyond Rudy's team.

Let the media believe the "transition team" means something. The more they gaslight their audience, the more fun Sidney's victory will be.

At this point, you're becoming even more ridiculous than Hiroo Onoda, the Imperial Japanese soldier who held out in the Philippine jungle almost thirty years after the war ended.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 23, 2020, 08:47:46 PM
We'll see if Sidney Powell can deliver on her promises. Based on the affidavit bits she's already released, the media is in for a big surprise.


You mean the nutcase so nutcasey she was just fired by Trump for being a nutcase too far?

First some of my leftist friends disappointed me by engaging in crazy Russia conspiracy theories.

Now some of my right wing friends are disappointing me by telling those leftist Russia conspiracy theory friends to hold their beer.

I know too many confirmation bias suckers willing to buy any bullshit that meets with their partisan preferences. Sometimes, you just lose. Sometimes you realize the nation in general isn't on board with your specific bubble of friends and beliefs like you thought they were.

Sometimes, you just got to know when to fold.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 23, 2020, 09:13:39 PM
It's fun that you kids want to steal an election, but math still works...especially with 250+ affidavits. Cry and scream all you want, but basic statistics proves the fraud.

This delusion that Sidney was "fired" for being "nutty" is very cute, but the slightest research shows that's not the case. She's pro bono and her plan from Day 1 was to represent the American people deprived of their votes, not just Trump. Why? Because she knows the fraud involves traitors in both parties and she's already experienced that when she was a federal prosecutor...and documented it in her bestselling book.

As for this "nutty and fired" woman, she sure has Dominion and the entire media very scared. And now with Parler, her "suspensions" on Twatter are even more meaningless.

Funny how the leftist scum did so poorly in House and Senate races, but somehow Biden "won"...and now you believe a 6-3 Republican Supreme Court is going to let massive voter fraud steal an election???
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 23, 2020, 09:15:22 PM
It's fun that you kids want to steal an election, but math still works...especially with 250+ affidavits. Cry and scream all you want, but basic statistics proves the fraud.

This delusion that Sidney was "fired" for being "nutty" is very cute, but the slightest research shows that's not the case. She's pro bono and her plan from Day 1 was to represent the American people deprived of their votes, not just Trump. Why? Because she knows the fraud involves traitors in both parties and she's already experienced that when she was a federal prosecutor...and documented it in her bestselling book.

As for this "nutty and fired" woman, she sure has Dominion and the entire media very scared. And now with Parler, her "suspensions" on Twatter are even more meaningless.

Funny how the leftist scum did so poorly in House and Senate races, but somehow Biden "won"...and now you believe a 6-3 Republican Supreme Court is going to let massive voter fraud steal an election???
I think your tinfoil is a bit too tight around the temples.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 23, 2020, 09:20:54 PM
We'll see if Sidney Powell can deliver on her promises. Based on the affidavit bits she's already released, the media is in for a big surprise.


You mean the nutcase so nutcasey she was just fired by Trump for being a nutcase too far?
WOW. Are you a fucking idiot, or what? She was NEVER RETAINED BY TRUMP NOR BY HIS LEGAL TEAM. She is still Michael Flynn's Attorney. Sigh. How can so many people NOT understand FACT FROM FICTION.
A QUOTE FROM POWELL: "We will not allow this great Republic to be stolen by communists from without and within or our votes altered or manipulated by foreign actors in Hong Kong, Iran, Venezuela, or Serbia, for example, who have neither regard for human life nor the people who are the engine of this exceptional country. "

I guess you all hate her since she's just an attorney right? Or is it because your 'religion' of LIES, THEFT, MURDER and EXTREMISM tells you so? But I guess people like Mistwell just get wet over thinking of how many bodies can be mass buried of all those nasty people who have spent decades TOLERATING the bullshit spreading out from their mouths. The religious motivation of HARMING CHILDREN AND OUTRIGHT MURDER must be strong with those of you who IDENTIFY.

Anyhow, I gotta take a(n info) dump.
===============================================

The Information Keeps on -
Rollin' Rollin' Rollin'!
===============================================
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/mathematics-prof-says-sworn-statement-many-56000-gop-ballots-pa-may-be
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/thuammultiple-michigan-residents-swear-under-oath-they-witnessed
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18632787/6/4/wood-v-raffensperger/
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/dozen-compelling-pieces-evidence-voting-irregularities-2020-election
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/limestone-county-social-worker-charged-134-felony-counts-involving-election-fraud
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/Antrim_Fact_Check_707197_7.pdf
https://da.lacounty.gov/media/news/pair-charged-voter-fraud
https://mailchi.mp/2270aefe51e4/statement-from-sidney-powell-to-we-the-people?e=3b0771afd3
https://twitter.com/GenFlynn/status/1330671677211029506
https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1330629524040658948
https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1330917531146711041
https://twitter.com/MattBraynard/status/1330578867690610694
https://twitter.com/DrPaulGosar/status/1330725927051960322
https://twitter.com/Barnes_Law/status/1330914354947002368 (FYI: I watch this guy on yootoob, along with viva frei)

And then there was this: https://twitter.com/PascrellforNJ/status/1329875147067625474
          https://twitter.com/Barnes_Law/status/1330628720470593536
===============================================
So what's wrong if our votes were processed in Germany, right? They are our friends, right? RIGHT??
https://twitter.com/DAVINDERANAND3/status/1330078303542251520
===============================================
Must make some of the Socialists on here real wet to know Germany has become a threat to their own people again! ::)
At least THIS is something to make you REEEE-l AAAAHngry: https://twitter.com/AnthonySabatini/status/1330882574579871744
===============================================
A Quick Reminder:
----------------
Everyone, keep safe during the holiday season. Take care, especially in December.
SEE Some Thing, SAY Some Thing.
Thing.
:D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 23, 2020, 09:22:29 PM
It's fun that you kids want to steal an election, but math still works...especially with 250+ affidavits. Cry and scream all you want, but basic statistics proves the fraud.

This delusion that Sidney was "fired" for being "nutty" is very cute, but the slightest research shows that's not the case. She's pro bono and her plan from Day 1 was to represent the American people deprived of their votes, not just Trump. Why? Because she knows the fraud involves traitors in both parties and she's already experienced that when she was a federal prosecutor...and documented it in her bestselling book.

As for this "nutty and fired" woman, she sure has Dominion and the entire media very scared. And now with Parler, her "suspensions" on Twatter are even more meaningless.

Funny how the leftist scum did so poorly in House and Senate races, but somehow Biden "won"...and now you believe a 6-3 Republican Supreme Court is going to let massive voter fraud steal an election???

Greetings!

Just imagine the absolute hysteria that will break out with the Liberal scum when the God Emperor Trump returns to the throne!!!! ;D

The "Reee! Reee! Reee!" will flow like rivers of sweet, salty tears!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 23, 2020, 09:26:05 PM
We'll see if Sidney Powell can deliver on her promises. Based on the affidavit bits she's already released, the media is in for a big surprise.


You mean the nutcase so nutcasey she was just fired by Trump for being a nutcase too far?
WOW. Are you a fucking idiot, or what? She was NEVER RETAINED BY TRUMP NOR BY HIS LEGAL TEAM. She is still Michael Flynn's Attorney. Sigh. How can so many people NOT understand FACT FROM FICTION.

Anyhow, I gotta take a(n info) dump.
===============================================

The Information Keeps on -
Rollin' Rollin' Rollin'!
===============================================
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/mathematics-prof-says-sworn-statement-many-56000-gop-ballots-pa-may-be
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/thuammultiple-michigan-residents-swear-under-oath-they-witnessed
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18632787/6/4/wood-v-raffensperger/
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/dozen-compelling-pieces-evidence-voting-irregularities-2020-election
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/limestone-county-social-worker-charged-134-felony-counts-involving-election-fraud
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/Antrim_Fact_Check_707197_7.pdf
https://da.lacounty.gov/media/news/pair-charged-voter-fraud
https://mailchi.mp/2270aefe51e4/statement-from-sidney-powell-to-we-the-people?e=3b0771afd3
https://twitter.com/GenFlynn/status/1330671677211029506
https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1330629524040658948
https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1330917531146711041
https://twitter.com/MattBraynard/status/1330578867690610694
https://twitter.com/DrPaulGosar/status/1330725927051960322
https://twitter.com/Barnes_Law/status/1330914354947002368 (FYI: I watch this guy on yootoob, along with viva frei)

And then there was this: https://twitter.com/PascrellforNJ/status/1329875147067625474
          https://twitter.com/Barnes_Law/status/1330628720470593536
===============================================
So what's wrong if our votes were processed in Germany, right? They are our friends, right? RIGHT??
https://twitter.com/DAVINDERANAND3/status/1330078303542251520
===============================================
Must make some of the Socialists on here real wet to know Germany has become a threat to their own people again! ::)
At least THIS is something to make you REEEE-l AAAAHngry: https://twitter.com/AnthonySabatini/status/1330882574579871744
===============================================
A Quick Reminder:
----------------
Everyone, keep safe during the holiday season. Take care, especially in December.
SEE Some Thing, SAY Some Thing.
Thing.
:D

Greetings!

Keep the info rolling, Consolcwby!

The Leftists hate truth like vampires hate holy water. "It burns! It burns! Reee!" ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 23, 2020, 09:31:54 PM
--snipp--

Greetings!

Keep the info rolling, Consolcwby!

The Leftists hate truth like vampires hate holy water. "It burns! It burns! Reee!" ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Ah, thank you - both for the boost and for your service. (I'm lurking your posts about the Viking stuff. Enjoying it immensely!)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 23, 2020, 09:46:38 PM
Sometimes, you just got to know when to fold.

It's no surprise that you "know when to fold" at the moment you're told to fold. Even Gore the Wimp didn't fold for 37 days and even that was too early and showed his weakness. It's why he was never seen in politics again. 

And WHY would anyone fold when they're holding Aces?

The math screams fraud in multiple states and the commonality in each state? Dominion! A company so comically corrupt it belongs in a GI Joe cartoon.

Math is very powerful evidence to judges, and none of this math is so complicated that any Supreme Court justice can't follow what's being shown to them.

Uncovering this fraud requires high school statistics, not nuclear physics.


I think your tinfoil is a bit too tight around the temples.

You have proven repeatedly that you don't "think". That's beyond your limited cognitive abilities which exist to simply parrot what you're told.

If you could think, you would be able to look at the election voting anomalies and use basic principles of statistics. It's why we don't have RPG games with rules that say "and now roll five 20s in a row", let alone hundreds of thousands of natural 20s.

The election fraud should panic everyone. There were anomalies in both the 2016 and 2020 primaries around Bernie Sanders that were dismissed as "lack of voter enthusiasm" for the guy with huge crowds of dedicated fans. What happens in 20XX when your candidate has the election stolen from them? What happens when whoever controls Dominion controls the 2022 mid-terms?

If you could think, you would think about that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 23, 2020, 09:55:32 PM
Sometimes, you just got to know when to fold.

It's no surprise that you "know when to fold" at the moment you're told to fold. Even Gore the Wimp didn't fold for 37 days and even that was too early and showed his weakness. It's why he was never seen in politics again. 

And WHY would anyone fold when they're holding Aces?

The math screams fraud in multiple states and the commonality in each state? Dominion! A company so comically corrupt it belongs in a GI Joe cartoon.

Math is very powerful evidence to judges, and none of this math is so complicated that any Supreme Court justice can't follow what's being shown to them.

Uncovering this fraud requires high school statistics, not nuclear physics.


I think your tinfoil is a bit too tight around the temples.

You have proven repeatedly that you don't "think". That's beyond your limited cognitive abilities which exist to simply parrot what you're told.

If you could think, you would be able to look at the election voting anomalies and use basic principles of statistics. It's why we don't have RPG games with rules that say "and now roll five 20s in a row", let alone hundreds of thousands of natural 20s.

The election fraud should panic everyone. There were anomalies in both the 2016 and 2020 primaries around Bernie Sanders that were dismissed as "lack of voter enthusiasm" for the guy with huge crowds of dedicated fans. What happens in 20XX when your candidate has the election stolen from them? What happens when whoever controls Dominion controls the 2022 mid-terms?

If you could think, you would think about that.
This nut jobber extremist here just keeps making me laugh! Keep it up, you crazy motherfucker! When everything settles your reality is going to be shattered...and you'll probably hole up somewhere in eternal denial drinking your own piss (literally).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on November 23, 2020, 10:01:10 PM
Just in case the steal works I just moved a bunch of cash from the sidelines into Aerospace & Defense ETFs.  I almost feel sorry for all POC that are about to get their shithole countries bombed from the Middle Ages to the Stone Age.  Almost.

Note that you can't actually challenge election results until states certify results.  Otherwise you're just bitching about wind.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 23, 2020, 10:15:29 PM
It's fun that you kids want to steal an election, but math still works...especially with 250+ affidavits. Cry and scream all you want, but basic statistics proves the fraud.

No my friend, they don't. They can prove averages, but they don't prove fraud. To prove fraud, you need to prove fraud. All the courts have found no basis for fraud. The claims are so fucking weak, they are dismissed without even the need for a jury. Because no reasonable person would agree that the paltry evidence is sufficient to demonstrate actual fraud.

Quote
Funny how the leftist scum did so poorly in House and Senate races, but somehow Biden "won"...and now you believe a 6-3 Republican Supreme Court is going to let massive voter fraud steal an election???

You are fucking delusional. It's not even going to be taken up by the USSC. The cases are so weak they will reject it out of hand. Watch. You are about to be sorely disappointed. Your little insular Parler circle jerk bubble is not reality. It's only showing you what agrees with your preconceived view of what happened, and not what doesn't meet with that view. The proof will be when the Court doesn't even bother to hear the cases because they are such obvious bullshit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 23, 2020, 10:27:39 PM
Detroit had more vote errors in 2016 when Trump won Michigan by a narrow margin. He didn't object then. (https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Detroit-had-more-vote-errors-in-2016-when-Trump-15748326.php)

"State and county election data show that four years ago - when Donald Trump carried the state by a much narrower margin - twice as many Detroit precincts were out of balance...In the fall of 2016, 392 Detroit precincts, or 59% of the total, had discrepancies of at least one ballot, accounting for at least 916 votes, the data show. This fall, 179 Detroit precincts, or 28% of the total, had discrepancies of at least one ballot, accounting for at least 433 votes...Out-of-balance precincts can occur for several reasons. A machine may fail to scan the name of a voter on an absentee ballot envelope. A voter can make a mistake on a ballot and request a new one, or sign into the poll book but leave before casting a ballot...A review of data from the November 2020 Wayne County Canvass showed a substantial improvement in the percentage of [Detroit] precincts that were in balance and recountable as compared both to the August 2020 Primary and the November 2016 General Election"
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 23, 2020, 10:33:27 PM
Keep it up, you crazy motherfucker!

Unlike you, keeping it up isn't a problem for me.


When everything settles your reality is going to be shattered...and you'll probably hole up somewhere in eternal denial drinking your own piss (literally).

Really? My somewhere happens to have a jacuzzi and I prefer tequila for my drinking. You have to cuck for the Coronapanic for a paycheck. I don't. I steer my own company and business is good (and built to be "recession proof" after learning my lessons from the Obama years).

My reality shattered? How droll. My "reality" is that regardless of this election's outcome, the culture war accelerates in viciousness and divisiveness. A second Trump term can hold of the inevitable destruction off America for a few years, but nothing short of civil war or balkanization can solve the underlying problems. 

Furthermore, the most strident voices on the left have no patience for a "moderate" Biden and they will become unhinged unless swiftly appeased...at which point they will demand more...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 23, 2020, 10:49:16 PM
Keep it up, you crazy motherfucker!

Unlike you, keeping it up isn't a problem for me.


When everything settles your reality is going to be shattered...and you'll probably hole up somewhere in eternal denial drinking your own piss (literally).

Really? My somewhere happens to have a jacuzzi and I prefer tequila for my drinking. You have to cuck for the Coronapanic for a paycheck. I don't. I steer my own company and business is good (and built to be "recession proof" after learning my lessons from the Obama years).

My reality shattered? How droll. My "reality" is that regardless of this election's outcome, the culture war accelerates in viciousness and divisiveness. A second Trump term can hold of the inevitable destruction off America for a few years, but nothing short of civil war or balkanization can solve the underlying problems. 

Furthermore, the most strident voices on the left have no patience for a "moderate" Biden and they will become unhinged unless swiftly appeased...at which point they will demand more...
(https://i.chzbgr.com/full/2659238400/h6A37CD34/batshit-crazy-youre-doing-it-right)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 23, 2020, 11:09:34 PM
Yes HappyDaze, it's surely "batshit crazy" to imagine that the 2020 election would lead to greater social division and overheating of the culture war!! Who would think of such nonsense? LOL.

What is "batshit crazy" is imagining that Biden (who couldn't fill a gym with supporters) and Kamala (who dropped out with 1% support in the primaries) will enjoy the approval of the most vocal and aggressive leftists when their "presidency" doesn't deliver communism swiftly.

You are fucking delusional.

So true! I keep seeing math that is statistically impossible. Math that dozens of experts have repeatedly proved isn't in the realm of reality and involves hundreds of thousands of votes in multiple states.

Not stories. Not conjecture. Not rumors. Math.

It's no wonder why leftists hate math so much.

The proof will be when the Court doesn't even bother to hear the cases because they are such obvious bullshit.

I guess 250+ people are going to get charged with perjury and Sidney Powell is going to lose every dime she has in Dominion's massive defamation lawsuit!!

The fun part doesn't involve the Court. When Sidney files her lawsuit, she will be filing her evidence and the affidavits into the public record for everyone to see, read and discuss. That's her make or break moment.
 
It's one thing for Rudy to flap his lips (and leak his hair gel) for $20k/day, but Sidney is pro bono. If she has no Kraken, her impeccable reputation will be destroyed and she'll face lawsuits and probable disbarment.

She'd have to be a totally crazy person...except she's the person whose dismantled "impossible" cases repeatedly in her career and now, she has access to massive crowdsourced support and whistleblowers.

Of course, I agree that the USSC might ignore the fraud. That's absolutely possible, but that only accelerates the civil war and/or balkanization timetable.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 23, 2020, 11:41:14 PM
Yes HappyDaze, it's surely "batshit crazy" to imagine that the 2020 election would lead to greater social division and overheating of the culture war!! Who would think of such nonsense? LOL.

What is "batshit crazy" is imagining that Biden (who couldn't fill a gym with supporters) and Kamala (who dropped out with 1% support in the primaries) will enjoy the approval of the most vocal and aggressive leftists when their "presidency" doesn't deliver communism swiftly.

You are fucking delusional.

So true! I keep seeing math that is statistically impossible. Math that dozens of experts have repeatedly proved isn't in the realm of reality and involves hundreds of thousands of votes in multiple states.

Not stories. Not conjecture. Not rumors. Math.

It's no wonder why leftists hate math so much.

The proof will be when the Court doesn't even bother to hear the cases because they are such obvious bullshit.

I guess 250+ people are going to get charged with perjury and Sidney Powell is going to lose every dime she has in Dominion's massive defamation lawsuit!!

The fun part doesn't involve the Court. When Sidney files her lawsuit, she will be filing her evidence and the affidavits into the public record for everyone to see, read and discuss. That's her make or break moment.
 
It's one thing for Rudy to flap his lips (and leak his hair gel) for $20k/day, but Sidney is pro bono. If she has no Kraken, her impeccable reputation will be destroyed and she'll face lawsuits and probable disbarment.

She'd have to be a totally crazy person...except she's the person whose dismantled "impossible" cases repeatedly in her career and now, she has access to massive crowdsourced support and whistleblowers.

Of course, I agree that the USSC might ignore the fraud. That's absolutely possible, but that only accelerates the civil war and/or balkanization timetable.
Hey, I'm more than willing to see what case she presents, but in the meantime I'll laugh my ass off at those that, without seeing her supposed evidence, bleat out that she has the secrets of the universe at the ready. She might as well claim that she has an actual, living kraken for as much as she's shown. Sure, she's holding her cards close, blah, blah, whatever. Let's see what she really has...and how the REEEE of the Trumplanders will go off to spin it into something more than it is.

BTW, leafykitty, you REEEE real good!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 24, 2020, 12:51:21 AM
I guess 250+ people are going to get charged with perjury and Sidney Powell is going to lose every dime she has in Dominion's massive defamation lawsuit!!

Most of the affidavits are just supporting claims which are not in themselves evidence of fraud. It's things like "they made me stand 30 feet away from X". Not a perjury, just also not fraud.

Sidney Powell is fucking nuts and everyone is backing away from her right now. Dominion isn't likely to sue an attorney fro defamation, they will just win the day in court each time. You don't need to sue someone for defamation every time they act like a nutcase conspiracy theorist about your company, you just need to win the cases. Which they will.

The truth is likely Powell is just vying for publicity on her next book deal, and then a featured spot on Trumps future network.

Quote
The fun part doesn't involve the Court.

You made the claim about the Supreme Court dumb dumb! And that is all that counts for this election. Nobody will give a shit about these issues beyond this election. Only the nutter conspiracy theorists will still talk about it later.

Quote
Of course, I agree that the USSC might ignore the fraud. That's absolutely possible, but that only accelerates the civil war and/or balkanization timetable.

And when there is no civil war and it's just an ordinary Biden presidency will you admit you were wrong?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 24, 2020, 01:39:16 AM
This is an odd one:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese-dissidents-back-trumps-claims-of-election-fraud-11606057766

A lot of Chinese dissidents are saying the US election was rigged, and are supporting Trump. One of their biggest criticisms was aimed at the TV networks who cut off Trump's post-election news conference, which they said reminded them of censorship in China.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 24, 2020, 09:05:50 AM
This is an odd one:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese-dissidents-back-trumps-claims-of-election-fraud-11606057766

A lot of Chinese dissidents are saying the US election was rigged, and are supporting Trump. One of their biggest criticisms was aimed at the TV networks who cut off Trump's post-election news conference, which they said reminded them of censorship in China.
Don't worry, our Betters will be selling them back to the CCP shortly.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 24, 2020, 06:19:32 PM
Most of the affidavits are just supporting claims which are not in themselves evidence of fraud.

According to the reports, numerous affidavits are people alleging voter tampering, such as stacks of pristine unfolded ballots with perfect black circles for Biden being processed repeatedly. If untrue, these people have perjured themselves and defamed the election workers. That's separate from the affidavits from observers who were not allowed to observe properly.

Of course, the question becomes WHY were the observers not allowed to observe? To which, there's no viable answer except the vote counters did NOT want to be observed. Which leads us to question WHY did the vote counters not want to be observed? And that answer is obvious. The vote counters were doing something they did not want any observers to see.


Sidney Powell is fucking nuts and everyone is backing away from her right now.

We will soon learn if "Sidney Powell is fucking nuts" for the first time in her entire highly regarded and successful career.

If she's telling the truth, it makes sense she must act apart from the Trump campaign which, by the nature of Trump running as a Republican, makes his campaign part of the Republican apparatus.

To tear Republicans a plethora of brand new assholes, Sidney would of course need to be independent from their apparatus. Based on the statements of both Lin Wood and Sidney Powell, they are planning on exposing election fraud and corruption involving both parties.

We will see.

I don't have access to her "Kraken" evidence, only to the statistical data that's been posted online which shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that something is very, very wrong with this election and all the "errors" benefit Biden.


Dominion isn't likely to sue an attorney fro defamation, they will just win the day in court each time.


We live in the most litigious time in history and Sidney's statements have unleashed hell on their company and made their employees and ex-employees pariah, if not targets for violence. And they aren't going to make an example out of her?


Nobody will give a shit about these issues beyond this election. Only the nutter conspiracy theorists will still talk about it later.

Somebody found Hunter's crack pipe!

Kennedy's assassination has been a hot topic for 60 years. The moon landing is still debated along with the flat earth and creationism. And somehow the 2020 election fraud which has untold reams of evidence of anomalies (all going in Biden's direction) and numerous bad actors is just going to go POOF???

LOL. I'm not sure if even HappyDaze is dumb enough to believe that one.


Quote
And when there is no civil war and it's just an ordinary Biden presidency will you admit you were wrong?

You mean like the "ordinary Obama presidency" which skyrocketed the culture war and social divisions? And Obama didn't talk 1/10th the anti-American crazy we've heard out of Democrats in 2020.

You brought up a good point regarding Trump's News channel. Whether he starts one (or buys one) in 2021 or 2025, Trump will be a media star post-Presidency and he will be intensely focused to promote his legacy and vision for America.

If Trump owned Parler and Newsmax (or their equivalents), is there any doubt that he'd have an audience reach of 35 million? That's half his voters.

Let's face facts. We have two incompatible cultures in America and there is ZERO reason to believe that Biden will unite anything and EVERY reason to believe Biden's handlers will accelerate the culture war by demanding greater submission from dissenters....and Trump will be cheering on our dissent and rebellion to you and your kind. 

A house divided cannot stand.

Does that guarantee civil war? In the history of humanity, violence before separation has been very common, sometimes minor skirmishes, but quite often outright civil war - most especially when there's economic strife.

It's ludicrous to believe the USA is immune to the historical realities of mankind. That's why its best to start discussions for a peaceful separation before the shooting starts.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 24, 2020, 06:26:21 PM
BTW, leafykitty, you REEEE real good!

In the past, I would question whether that's the best you've got, but in 2020, you have proven the above represents the limit of your cognition.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 24, 2020, 06:33:13 PM
BTW, leafykitty, you REEEE real good!

In the past, I would question whether that's the best you've got, but in 2020, you have proven the above represents the limit of your cognition.
And your REEEE represents the limits of your vocabulary,  you sad sack of shit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 24, 2020, 06:48:30 PM
I don't have access to her "Kraken" evidence, only to the statistical data that's been posted online which shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that something is very, very wrong with this election and all the "errors" benefit Biden.

Spinachcat - Do you have a link to something that shows the data along the method and its sources? I looked over a Redstate.com article earlier in this thread, which had a bunch of statistics but no explanation of its sources or methods.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 24, 2020, 09:02:44 PM
A house divided cannot stand.

Does that guarantee civil war? In the history of humanity, violence before separation has been very common, sometimes minor skirmishes, but quite often outright civil war - most especially when there's economic strife.

It's ludicrous to believe the USA is immune to the historical realities of mankind. That's why its best to start discussions for a peaceful separation before the shooting starts.

And when there is no civil war, and no separation, and it's just an ordinary Biden presidency will you admit you were wrong?

It's a simple question.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 24, 2020, 09:06:41 PM
I don't have access to her "Kraken" evidence, only to the statistical data that's been posted online which shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that something is very, very wrong with this election and all the "errors" benefit Biden.

Spinachcat - Do you have a link to something that shows the data along the method and its sources? I looked over a Redstate.com article earlier in this thread, which had a bunch of statistics but no explanation of its sources or methods.
Well, if they've got statistics, I'm sure they have the lies and damn lies to back them up.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 24, 2020, 10:30:36 PM
For 4 years all people heard was: "ELECTION WAS RIGGED!!!", "TRUMP IS A FRAUD!!!", "HIS SUPPORTERS MUST BE DEALT WITH!", "BURN DOWN AMERICA!!! NO MORE LAW AND ORDER!! DESTROY!".

Now all people hear is: "USA HAS NO ELECTION FRAUD EVAR!", "BIDEN IS A GENIUS!", "TRUMP'S SUPPORTERS MUST BE DEALT WITH BECAUSE THEY ARE HURTING AMERICA'S IMAGE ABOUT THE ELECTION!!!", "ELECTION FRAUD IS A MYTH!", "WE'LL BURN DOWN AMERICA ANYWAY!!! NO MORE LAW AND ORDER!! DESTROY!".
People here are at least reasonable... (yeah, right!)
Yeah. Sounds like reasonable people. Sounds legit.  :-*
***
My dump of information, but first - some komrade-komedy!
========================================================
Huh? Wha-? https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/1330990424090152961
Wha? Huh-? https://twitter.com/JasonLSullivan_/status/1330983732107309056
But, the MASKS! https://twitter.com/TrumpWarRoom/status/1331304101259436038
What pigs, to flaunt their media supremacy! DOWN WITH MURROW, CRONKITE, AND THIS: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CmlEftkPs64/maxresdefault.jpg
STOP IT BEFORE IT BREEDS!!!
https://www.sportskeeda.com/esports/youtube-bans-belle-delphine-nudity-unbans-internet-calls-explanation
OH, THE HUMANITY!!! IT CAN'T BE STOPPED! (simps gotta simp, i guess *shrug*)
========================================================
Here it is:
----------
https://twitter.com/RandyRRQuaid/status/1329817104204304389
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1331214247955738624
https://twitter.com/ReduxVernon/status/1331254334458372096
https://twitter.com/GovernorTomWolf/status/1331263684681867266
https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1331069628806815744
https://twitter.com/CortesSteve/status/1330904014788186114 :
"A key point about Trump's official legal team and other allies pursuing important cases independently.
The Sidney Powell case is effectively a criminal case, and she continues to aggressively pursue it. The campaign's case is primarily a Constitutional one.
Both can work."

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1331013907859845121
https://twitter.com/charliespiering/status/1331017710604574722
https://twitter.com/Jhomes551/status/1331306828827926530
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-imposing-certain-sanctions-event-foreign-interference-united-states-election/

COVI-ARKANCIDE, OR ARKANKOVIED??
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/ghislaine-maxwell-quarantine-after-covid-breakout-her-unit

Take care! :)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 24, 2020, 11:40:48 PM
Spinachcat - Do you have a link to something that shows the data along the method and its sources? I looked over a Redstate.com article earlier in this thread, which had a bunch of statistics but no explanation of its sources or methods.

I have seen numerous articles, but I do not have link with a master list. I will try to backtrack to the better articles that had the data presented - particularly the datadumps related to the sudden spikes in votes on the morning of Nov 4th.

I do know Matt Braynard's name has shown up in several articles and this is his "final analysis" video with details from his Voter Integrity Project. It's a lengthy discussion (I don't enjoy podcasts) and I am waiting for his white paper promised next week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH9ihoLi1NA&feature=emb_logo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH9ihoLi1NA&feature=emb_logo)

Hopefully, the white paper will link to the raw data so other people can examine his findings and verify his results. For any voter integrity to be valuable long term, we need the raw data publicly available for multiple researchers to confirm, deny or question the analysis.

And your REEEE represents the limits of your vocabulary,  you sad sack of shit.

That's pathetic even for you. Try harder.

But you managed alliteration so perhaps not all hope is lost.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 25, 2020, 12:01:35 AM
And when there is no civil war, and no separation, and it's just an ordinary Biden presidency will you admit you were wrong?

Absolutely!

Maybe Biden will be the most amazing President ever and his "very progressive agenda" (his words) will sprinkle the world with rainbows and unicorns!

I admit that it is VERY possible (and according to my friends, very probable) that the outcome of America's fall into socialism, communism and destruction is total obedience by the nation in our own suicide.

Based on the past 50 years of TOTAL FAILURE to push back in the culture war, the leftists have very good reason to believe "the right" will do nothing in the future as well and simply kvetch on Parler, grind their teeth watching NewsMax or TrumpNews, wave flags at rallies and stockpile guns and ammo they never will shoot.

It is VERY possible "the right" will go back to voting for spineless Republicans and continue to gobble down their useless promises to "fight for something in the future" and then watch as more and more of American values, traditions and history are lost forever.

Unless "the right" gets off its ass, America dies. How her death happens is yet to be determined. I fully accept the fact that "the right" might lay down - and 2020 is a good indicator of that - but the history of humanity shows that economic strife + cultural divide = violence & separation. Of course, who knows if that's a 4 year or a 14 year or 40 year timetable.

If you ask me to bet, even I'd bet money on your kind killing America long before my kind stands up and stops you.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 25, 2020, 12:05:41 AM
And when there is no civil war, and no separation, and it's just an ordinary Biden presidency will you admit you were wrong?

Absolutely!

Maybe Biden will be the most amazing President ever and his "very progressive agenda" (his words) will sprinkle the world with rainbows and unicorns!

I admit that it is VERY possible (and according to my friends, very probable) that the outcome of America's fall into socialism, communism and destruction is total obedience by the nation in our own suicide.

Based on the past 50 years of TOTAL FAILURE to push back in the culture war, the leftists have very good reason to believe "the right" will do nothing in the future as well and simply kvetch on Parler, grind their teeth watching NewsMax or TrumpNews, wave flags at rallies and stockpile guns and ammo they never will shoot.

It is VERY possible "the right" will go back to voting for spineless Republicans and continue to gobble down their useless promises to "fight for something in the future" and then watch as more and more of American values, traditions and history are lost forever.

Unless "the right" gets off its ass, America dies. How her death happens is yet to be determined. I fully accept the fact that "the right" might lay down - and 2020 is a good indicator of that - but the history of humanity shows that economic strife + cultural divide = violence & separation. Of course, who knows if that's a 4 year or a 14 year or 40 year timetable.

If you ask me to bet, even I'd bet money on your kind killing America long before my kind stands up and stops you.
America is evolving, and that means change, not death. Unless you and yours are evolutionary dead ends...which makes a lot of sense. Run from the people of the future, caveman.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on November 25, 2020, 12:13:43 AM
America is evolving, and that means change, not death.

Russia "evolved" so much in 1917.
Castro brought such "change" to Cuba.
Who do you worship more, Mao or the Khmer Rouge?

Communism definitely brings change AND death. Lots and lots of death.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 25, 2020, 12:16:15 AM
America is evolving, and that means change, not death.

Russia "evolved" so much in 1917.
Castro brought such "change" to Cuba.
Who do you worship more, Mao or the Khmer Rouge?

Communism definitely brings change AND death. Lots and lots of death.
I agree that not all change is good, but I don't believe all change is bad either.

Anyway, I'll be back to insult you again tomorrow. For now, I need to grab a few hours of sleep before a busy day.

Goodnight, bitch.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/K0JLfHTOJs8ZG/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 25, 2020, 03:00:44 AM
And when there is no civil war, and no separation, and it's just an ordinary Biden presidency will you admit you were wrong?

Absolutely!

Maybe Biden will be the most amazing President ever and his "very progressive agenda" (his words) will sprinkle the world with rainbows and unicorns!

I admit that it is VERY possible (and according to my friends, very probable) that the outcome of America's fall into socialism, communism and destruction is total obedience by the nation in our own suicide.

Based on the past 50 years of TOTAL FAILURE to push back in the culture war, the leftists have very good reason to believe "the right" will do nothing in the future as well and simply kvetch on Parler, grind their teeth watching NewsMax or TrumpNews, wave flags at rallies and stockpile guns and ammo they never will shoot.

It is VERY possible "the right" will go back to voting for spineless Republicans and continue to gobble down their useless promises to "fight for something in the future" and then watch as more and more of American values, traditions and history are lost forever.

Unless "the right" gets off its ass, America dies. How her death happens is yet to be determined. I fully accept the fact that "the right" might lay down - and 2020 is a good indicator of that - but the history of humanity shows that economic strife + cultural divide = violence & separation. Of course, who knows if that's a 4 year or a 14 year or 40 year timetable.

If you ask me to bet, even I'd bet money on your kind killing America long before my kind stands up and stops you.

Greetings!

This is Civil War in the Ukraine--between Ukraine and the regions of Lugansk and Donbas. Interestingly, the United States and Nato sponsored a "Colour Revolution" in Kiev, which proceeded to install a president that was very cooperative with allowing Nato forces to move into Ukraine, and also to enmesh Ukraine into the EU. We all know what guardians of freedom and Democracy the EU is. The government in Kiev proceeded to institute policies that not everyone in the country agrees with--hence, a civil war has developed.

Live action presented here. The video is from early in the civil war, several years ago.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 25, 2020, 03:29:55 AM
Spinachcat - Do you have a link to something that shows the data along the method and its sources? I looked over a Redstate.com article earlier in this thread, which had a bunch of statistics but no explanation of its sources or methods.

I have seen numerous articles, but I do not have link with a master list. I will try to backtrack to the better articles that had the data presented - particularly the datadumps related to the sudden spikes in votes on the morning of Nov 4th.

I do know Matt Braynard's name has shown up in several articles and this is his "final analysis" video with details from his Voter Integrity Project. It's a lengthy discussion (I don't enjoy podcasts) and I am waiting for his white paper promised next week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH9ihoLi1NA&feature=emb_logo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH9ihoLi1NA&feature=emb_logo)

Hopefully, the white paper will link to the raw data so other people can examine his findings and verify his results. For any voter integrity to be valuable long term, we need the raw data publicly available for multiple researchers to confirm, deny or question the analysis.

Thanks, Spinachcat. I haven't watched the whole video, but I've watched a few chunks. I think it will be much better if it comes out as a white paper when they can actually present sources and methodology. Though, his conclusion is very different than many people here. From 34:15 in his video, in his conclusion section, what he says is:

Quote from: Matt Braynard
(Re: Biden) He may have won; he may not have won. Trump may have lost. Trump may have been re-elected. We just can't know, because of how bad this election system has operated. Because of all the problems it has allowed that I have brought to your attention.

I haven't watched the whole thing, but I agree with him in at least some parts regarding the election process. We really could use a more general election reform process. But a lot of people here are saying there is proof that the election was stolen from Trump by massive fraud by the Democrats -- and his conclusion isn't making any such claim. If the white paper is coming out next week, I would prefer to wait and read that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 25, 2020, 11:04:03 AM
And when there is no civil war, and no separation, and it's just an ordinary Biden presidency will you admit you were wrong?

Absolutely!

Maybe Biden will be the most amazing President ever and his "very progressive agenda" (his words) will sprinkle the world with rainbows and unicorns!

Oh please we both know that isn't happening. With a Republican Senate, and a bare majority in the House with enough fearful moderate Democratic House members fearing the midterms if they are perceived to be progressive, we're talking a deadlocked Congress.

Their only prayer of accomplishing something would be to pass the bill previously proposed to reinstate earmarks. Once earmarks are reinstated, then they can start making back room deals again, and have a chance at actually passing a bill. Things like "You vote to give bullet train money to California, and we will vote to give defense contracts to Texas" type deals were the backbone of how most things got done when we were younger.

This is how industry was originally spread across America. It's how our aerospace industry at one time was the best in the world. It's how our roads were, at one time, the best in the world. It's how our dams, our electrical system, our waterways, were all once the best in the world. It's how we got to the moon, and built track homes to make the suburbs, advanced architecture, and medicine. With backroom deals made in smoke filled rooms by overly fed and overly ego'ed good old boys trying to screw each other in negotiations.

And none of this lends itself to progressive agendas or culture wars. The progressives, more than any other group, lost this last election. They gained a couple of seats, but lost the larger war with those state legislature and congressional results. We've entered an era where cutting deals with people who disagree with you is the only way to accomplish anything, and that is the last thing the progressives wanted. An outright loss would have been better for them, from a messaging standpoint, than what happened. At least then they could argue they are the underdog fighting against the evil machine. But no, they appear to be on the winning side, but all their potential allies must instead turn to their enemies now. So they have no position to appeal from, aside from attacking their own Democrats. Which won't work.

This is what I mean by an ordinary Presidency. I think it is highly likely to be the kind of Presidency we were most used to when young. When it honestly didn't matter too much who was President, because most of the real decisions were not being made at the top anyway, and the nation had the benefit of a slightly corrupt but fairly well controlled and rational negotiating Congress cutting deals to spread the wealth across the nation. Because they had too, in order to keep their jobs and get rich themselves.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 25, 2020, 11:27:56 AM
<hilarious naivete snipped>
I just saw Dianne Feinstein will no longer be on the Judiciary Committee. Well, she IS 87... but there's also the small matter of not being sufficiently aggressive and mean to dirty prole Republicans.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/23/dianne-feinstein-step-down-senate-judiciary-439836

Money quote:

"This was a necessary step if Democrats are ever going to meaningfully confront the damage Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell have done to the federal judiciary," said Brian Fallon, executive director of Demand Justice. "Going forward, Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee must be led by someone who will not wishfully cling to a bygone era of civility and decorum that Republicans abandoned long ago."

Civility? Decorum? Holy shit, did this guy see the same Kavanaugh hearings I did? That was a fucking circus, complete with elephants and clowns and trapeze acts.

But no, evidently daffy ol' Dianne (she is NOT my favorite person due to her championing of anti-2A laws and bills) was insufficiently woke to please the radicals. Dick 'It's my name!' Durbin, and Whackjob Whitehorse will be vying for her seat. Wonderful.

Yeah, this is gonna be a fun couple years.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 25, 2020, 12:18:35 PM
For 4 years all people heard was: "ELECTION WAS RIGGED!!!", "TRUMP IS A FRAUD!!!", "HIS SUPPORTERS MUST BE DEALT WITH!", "BURN DOWN AMERICA!!! NO MORE LAW AND ORDER!! DESTROY!".

You are obviously only listening to right wingers misrepresenting what has been said (or cherry picking some extremists with no influence).

I've heard that the Trump campaign sought and welcomed help from the Russians in 2016, but were apparently too incompetent to conspire toward this. (And the Senate Intelligence committee confirms this, and they are mostly Republican Senators who have been quite slow to state publicly that Trump lost in 2020, and were all in (except Romney) when Trump got impeached for trying to get Ukraine to manufacture dirt on Joe Biden.)

I've heard that Trump is dishonest - 20,00 lies - but not that he's a fraud; he pretty much has no filter, and his narcissism probably drives him to believe his own lies. That Trump could not rise to a minimal level of competence as president is on him.

"Deal" with Trump supporters? All I heard was how those who oppose Trump have to turn out to vote in huge numbers (the electoral college at present probably means that a Democrat has to win the popular vote by more than 3% to have better than even chances of winning the presidency). Trump called for voter intimidation at the polls. I support Joe Biden's call for the country to come together, just as I supported Hillary Clinton's similar call in her concession speech a day after the 2016 election.

Most of the violence in the recent protests has been fomented either by the boogalooers and their ilk, or by federal intervention sent in against the wishes of mayors and governors. And murderers like Kyle Rittenhouse are heroes to the right.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 25, 2020, 01:26:56 PM
Oh please we both know that isn't happening. With a Republican Senate, and a bare majority in the House with enough fearful moderate Democratic House members fearing the midterms if they are perceived to be progressive, we're talking a deadlocked Congress.

Their only prayer of accomplishing something would be to pass the bill previously proposed to reinstate earmarks. Once earmarks are reinstated, then they can start making back room deals again, and have a chance at actually passing a bill. Things like "You vote to give bullet train money to California, and we will vote to give defense contracts to Texas" type deals were the backbone of how most things got done when we were younger.

This is how industry was originally spread across America. It's how our aerospace industry at one time was the best in the world. It's how our roads were, at one time, the best in the world. It's how our dams, our electrical system, our waterways, were all once the best in the world. It's how we got to the moon, and built track homes to make the suburbs, advanced architecture, and medicine. With backroom deals made in smoke filled rooms by overly fed and overly ego'ed good old boys trying to screw each other in negotiations.
Except that's not true. Industry spread across America because of entrepreneurs, not pork. For infrastructure, look up the history of private roads in the 19th century. The US had a huge network of toll roads, and a huge network of free roads that were funded local businesses, who benefited from the additional commerce. While the resultant roads were shared public goods, or classic positive externalities, and thus ripe for government intervention according to Pigouvian thinking, the market still created innovative ways for key beneficiaries to share the costs, and thus created them despite the theorizing. Eisenhower did create a national standard and turned the roads into a more consistent network, but it's worth remembering he did it primarily to facilitate troop transport in the case of an invasion, not for commercial or private use. Aerospace is not commercially viable on its own, but contracting out public services to private companies, from Boeing to Space X, is how the industry has always operated.

The government can't take credit for everything good, since most of the real goods were created by private hands. The bigger concern is handcuffing the private sector with taxes and excess regulation. That's why gridlock is good, because it at least lets the private sector wriggle a little bit in their restraints.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 25, 2020, 01:35:19 PM
<hilarious naivete snipped>
I just saw Dianne Feinstein will no longer be on the Judiciary Committee. Well, she IS 87... but there's also the small matter of not being sufficiently aggressive and mean to dirty prole Republicans.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/23/dianne-feinstein-step-down-senate-judiciary-439836

Money quote:

"This was a necessary step if Democrats are ever going to meaningfully confront the damage Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell have done to the federal judiciary," said Brian Fallon, executive director of Demand Justice. "Going forward, Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee must be led by someone who will not wishfully cling to a bygone era of civility and decorum that Republicans abandoned long ago."

Civility? Decorum? Holy shit, did this guy see the same Kavanaugh hearings I did? That was a fucking circus, complete with elephants and clowns and trapeze acts.

But no, evidently daffy ol' Dianne (she is NOT my favorite person due to her championing of anti-2A laws and bills) was insufficiently woke to please the radicals. Dick 'It's my name!' Durbin, and Whackjob Whitehorse will be vying for her seat. Wonderful.

Yeah, this is gonna be a fun couple years.
That's going to come back and bite them. This election was clearly a repudiation of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. But the progressives still control the narrative in social media, and many of the levers of power, and they're using it to purge moderates (though Feinstein is only a moderate by current standards), or force them to take more extreme positions (Biden's various statements pandering to the AOC crowd, for instance). Which is exactly what the voters don't want. The 2022 midterms are likely to be a blue rout.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 25, 2020, 01:51:33 PM
America is evolving, and that means change, not death.

Russia "evolved" so much in 1917.
Castro brought such "change" to Cuba.
Who do you worship more, Mao or the Khmer Rouge?

Communism definitely brings change AND death. Lots and lots of death.

Come on Spinach Cat, Happy Daze will have you know the people who died were evolutionary dead ends so therefore no great loss,   ::)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 25, 2020, 03:25:42 PM
Oh please we both know that isn't happening. With a Republican Senate, and a bare majority in the House with enough fearful moderate Democratic House members fearing the midterms if they are perceived to be progressive, we're talking a deadlocked Congress.

Their only prayer of accomplishing something would be to pass the bill previously proposed to reinstate earmarks. Once earmarks are reinstated, then they can start making back room deals again, and have a chance at actually passing a bill. Things like "You vote to give bullet train money to California, and we will vote to give defense contracts to Texas" type deals were the backbone of how most things got done when we were younger.

This is how industry was originally spread across America. It's how our aerospace industry at one time was the best in the world. It's how our roads were, at one time, the best in the world. It's how our dams, our electrical system, our waterways, were all once the best in the world. It's how we got to the moon, and built track homes to make the suburbs, advanced architecture, and medicine. With backroom deals made in smoke filled rooms by overly fed and overly ego'ed good old boys trying to screw each other in negotiations.
Except that's not true. Industry spread across America because of entrepreneurs, not pork.

You are naive and misinformed.

Steel, coal, aerospace, construction machinery and contracts, they all came from Government contracts starting in the 30s which only grew through the 50s and 60s.

The government is not "taking credit for everything good" as a lot of this was private companies receiving Government contracts. But pork spending drove a huge amount of this growth.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kiero on November 25, 2020, 04:20:18 PM
I have to say, the revelations from the Pennsylvania case are hilarious. Almost 600,000 postal votes injected into the process in the small hours of the morning, 572,000 for Biden, 3,200 for Trump.

Nothing suspicious there at all. Nope, nothing to see here, move along.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 25, 2020, 04:34:19 PM
Greetings!

This election has been so full of fraud and corruption. Full investigations and audits need to be done, and all of these corrupt pollsters, workers, election officials, and slimy politicians need to fucking pay.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 25, 2020, 04:36:11 PM
Greetings!

PRESIDENT TRUMP speaks by phone at the Election Hearings in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, with Rudi Juliani and Jenna Ellis present.

God bless President Trump! MAGA!!!!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 25, 2020, 05:18:19 PM

Most of the violence in the recent protests has been fomented either by the boogalooers and their ilk, or by federal intervention sent in against the wishes of mayors and governors. And murderers like Kyle Rittenhouse are heroes to the right.

I saw some of the riots close up, BLM people were literally tearing stores down. Store owners were putting up BLM signs in a panic, hoping to avoid being looted. In some areas it looked like a protection racket (later confirmed by some latinos on the news).

Oh and the media seem to want people to think that boogalooers are "right wing". I have seen lots of leftists thinking this because the media keep saying it. They protested against the police after George Floyd died, and one of them has supported Hamas. Does that sound right wing to anyone?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 25, 2020, 05:24:31 PM
Oh please we both know that isn't happening. With a Republican Senate, and a bare majority in the House with enough fearful moderate Democratic House members fearing the midterms if they are perceived to be progressive, we're talking a deadlocked Congress.

Their only prayer of accomplishing something would be to pass the bill previously proposed to reinstate earmarks. Once earmarks are reinstated, then they can start making back room deals again, and have a chance at actually passing a bill. Things like "You vote to give bullet train money to California, and we will vote to give defense contracts to Texas" type deals were the backbone of how most things got done when we were younger.

This is how industry was originally spread across America. It's how our aerospace industry at one time was the best in the world. It's how our roads were, at one time, the best in the world. It's how our dams, our electrical system, our waterways, were all once the best in the world. It's how we got to the moon, and built track homes to make the suburbs, advanced architecture, and medicine. With backroom deals made in smoke filled rooms by overly fed and overly ego'ed good old boys trying to screw each other in negotiations.
Except that's not true. Industry spread across America because of entrepreneurs, not pork.

You are naive and misinformed.

Steel, coal, aerospace, construction machinery and contracts, they all came from Government contracts starting in the 30s which only grew through the 50s and 60s.

The government is not "taking credit for everything good" as a lot of this was private companies receiving Government contracts. But pork spending drove a huge amount of this growth.
No, you just have a very weak understanding of economics.

It's not under dispute that the government spent a lot, especially starting in the 1930s. Nor is it under dispute that the spending resulted in certain goods. The real question is whether the government's expenditure of those resources provided a net benefit over the alternative uses of those resources, i.e. whether the free market would have provided superior or less costly goods. Simply listing the benefits that resulted, as you did, is giving the government for the entire good, rather than considering whether that good is better or worse than that the goods that would have resulted, without the government intervention. That's exactly what I was decrying when I said you are giving government credit for everything good that happened.

You should consider reading Bastiat's parable of the seen and the unseen, (http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html) which is probably the most famous illustration of how only looking at the immediately effects, without considering the alternatives that could have happened, completely misses the real trade offs involved. For an alternate source, it's the "lesson" in Henry Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson, which is perhaps the most famous introductory work on economics in the 20th century (and is currently free at the Mises Institute). (https://mises.org/forms/get-your-free-economics-one-lesson-book) You might also consider looking into the Nobel prize winning work of James Buchanan on public choice theory, which applies that concept to the government.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 25, 2020, 05:48:57 PM
Greetings!

This election has been so full of fraud and corruption. Full investigations and audits need to be done, and all of these corrupt pollsters, workers, election officials, and slimy politicians need to fucking pay.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

They are doing investigations. They are going to courts. The courts are all saying the were not in fact fraudulent and corrupt. You're unwilling to accept those rulings because of your partisan bias. Despite similar stuff happening when Trump won, at the same locations, where you didn't have a complaint but did call Clinton a sore loser at the time.

At some point there will be a reckoning for how you are behaving right now about this election. Let's hope your reckoning is kinder and gentler than the one you wish on your political opposites.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 25, 2020, 05:52:44 PM
Oh please we both know that isn't happening. With a Republican Senate, and a bare majority in the House with enough fearful moderate Democratic House members fearing the midterms if they are perceived to be progressive, we're talking a deadlocked Congress.

Their only prayer of accomplishing something would be to pass the bill previously proposed to reinstate earmarks. Once earmarks are reinstated, then they can start making back room deals again, and have a chance at actually passing a bill. Things like "You vote to give bullet train money to California, and we will vote to give defense contracts to Texas" type deals were the backbone of how most things got done when we were younger.

This is how industry was originally spread across America. It's how our aerospace industry at one time was the best in the world. It's how our roads were, at one time, the best in the world. It's how our dams, our electrical system, our waterways, were all once the best in the world. It's how we got to the moon, and built track homes to make the suburbs, advanced architecture, and medicine. With backroom deals made in smoke filled rooms by overly fed and overly ego'ed good old boys trying to screw each other in negotiations.
Except that's not true. Industry spread across America because of entrepreneurs, not pork.

You are naive and misinformed.

Steel, coal, aerospace, construction machinery and contracts, they all came from Government contracts starting in the 30s which only grew through the 50s and 60s.

The government is not "taking credit for everything good" as a lot of this was private companies receiving Government contracts. But pork spending drove a huge amount of this growth.
No, you just have a very weak understanding of economics.

It's not under dispute that the government spent a lot, especially starting in the 1930s. Nor is it under dispute that the spending resulted in certain goods. The real question is whether the government's expenditure of those resources provided a net benefit over the alternative uses of those resources, i.e. whether the free market would have provided superior or less costly goods. Simply listing the benefits that resulted, as you did, is giving the government for the entire good, rather than considering whether that good is better or worse than that the goods that would have resulted, without the government intervention. That's exactly what I was decrying when I said you are giving government credit for everything good that happened.

You should consider reading Bastiat's parable of the seen and the unseen, (http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html) which is probably the most famous illustration of how only looking at the immediately effects, without considering the alternatives that could have happened, completely misses the real trade offs involved. For an alternate source, it's the "lesson" in Henry Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson, which is perhaps the most famous introductory work on economics in the 20th century (and is currently free at the Mises Institute). (https://mises.org/forms/get-your-free-economics-one-lesson-book) You might also consider looking into the Nobel prize winning work of James Buchanan on public choice theory, which applies that concept to the government.

There was not the money at the time, or the motivation at the time, to engage in those projects by the private sector. Nor were banks willing to lend on it, without Government backing for the financing.

I am not giving Government credit for everything good. I am saying that era of mild Government corruption and back room dealing resulted in far better results than what we've been getting with high levels of partisan bickering and filibustering of everything and no incentive to work across the aisles anymore to get anything done.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 25, 2020, 06:12:32 PM

You are naive and misinformed.

Steel, coal, aerospace, construction machinery and contracts, they all came from Government contracts starting in the 30s which only grew through the 50s and 60s.

The government is not "taking credit for everything good" as a lot of this was private companies receiving Government contracts. But pork spending drove a huge amount of this growth.

This is absolutely bizarre.  The US was industrially dominant prior to 1930.  It became industrially dominant during a period where the US government lived off import tariff revenues and federal budgets were small. 

http://stats.areppim.com/stats/stats_usxbudget_history.htm

Why does it not surprise me though that the nevertrump wing defends pork while simultaneously humping Sasse/Ryan fans' legs and calling Trump "not a real conservative".  Pork, war, and social change - what conservatives are all about!

(https://i.imgur.com/vvLSofs.jpg)

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 25, 2020, 06:17:42 PM


They are doing investigations. They are going to courts. The courts are all saying the were not in fact fraudulent and corrupt. You're unwilling to accept those rulings because of your partisan bias. Despite similar stuff happening when Trump won, at the same locations, where you didn't have a complaint but did call Clinton a sore loser at the time.

At some point there will be a reckoning for how you are behaving right now about this election. Let's hope your reckoning is kinder and gentler than the one you wish on your political opposites.

(https://i.imgur.com/FJHKN6n.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 25, 2020, 06:26:13 PM

Most of the violence in the recent protests has been fomented either by the boogalooers and their ilk, or by federal intervention sent in against the wishes of mayors and governors. And murderers like Kyle Rittenhouse are heroes to the right.

I saw some of the riots close up, BLM people were literally tearing stores down. Store owners were putting up BLM signs in a panic, hoping to avoid being looted. In some areas it looked like a protection racket (later confirmed by some latinos on the news).

Oh and the media seem to want people to think that boogalooers are "right wing". I have seen lots of leftists thinking this because the media keep saying it. They protested against the police after George Floyd died, and one of them has supported Hamas. Does that sound right wing to anyone?

Plus, the federal intervention was limited to federal facilities and/or acts against federal agents and facilities. The media jumped on this as proof that Trump had gone "Final Form" Hitler mode.
The state governors put federal agents and facilities at risk by ignoring the violence and vandalism until it got so bad they had to kinda sorta start dealing with it.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 25, 2020, 06:29:56 PM
There was not the money at the time, or the motivation at the time, to engage in those projects by the private sector. Nor were banks willing to lend on it, without Government backing for the financing.
What do you base that on? The huge economic flowering of the previous century, with a minimal government footprint? The even more severe downturn in 1920 and 1921, where Harding did absolutely nothing and the economy bounced back on its own almost immediately?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 25, 2020, 06:30:35 PM


They are doing investigations. They are going to courts. The courts are all saying the were not in fact fraudulent and corrupt. You're unwilling to accept those rulings because of your partisan bias. Despite similar stuff happening when Trump won, at the same locations, where you didn't have a complaint but did call Clinton a sore loser at the time.

At some point there will be a reckoning for how you are behaving right now about this election. Let's hope your reckoning is kinder and gentler than the one you wish on your political opposites.

(https://i.imgur.com/FJHKN6n.jpg)

Your cherry picked except from the larger text not withstanding, So far, though, supporters of President Donald Trump and the Trump campaign itself have failed in all their legal challenges to the process or the results of Michigan’s November 3rd elections. (https://www.michiganradio.org/post/mi-court-appeals-denies-election-fraud-case-against-detroit)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 25, 2020, 06:32:18 PM
There was not the money at the time, or the motivation at the time, to engage in those projects by the private sector. Nor were banks willing to lend on it, without Government backing for the financing.
What do you base that on? The huge economic flowering of the previous century, with a minimal government footprint? The even more severe downturn in 1920 and 1921, where Harding did absolutely nothing and the economy bounced back on its own almost immediately?

Are you seriously arguing projects like the TVA and Hoover Dam and San Francisco Bridge and the intercontinental highway would have just been built by private industry without at least Government backed loans? Please.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 25, 2020, 06:36:04 PM
There was not the money at the time, or the motivation at the time, to engage in those projects by the private sector. Nor were banks willing to lend on it, without Government backing for the financing.
What do you base that on? The huge economic flowering of the previous century, with a minimal government footprint? The even more severe downturn in 1920 and 1921, where Harding did absolutely nothing and the economy bounced back on its own almost immediately?

Are you seriously arguing projects like the TVA and Hoover Dam and San Francisco Bridge and the intercontinental highway would have just been built by private industry without at least Government backed loans? Please.

Are you seriously arguing that the capacity to build those projects came into being because of any pork-trading happening immediately prior to?  "Our economic dominance stems from the political corruption that benefits my class."  That's some grade-A gaslighting right there.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 25, 2020, 06:40:57 PM
Quote

Your cherry picked except from the larger text not withstanding, So far, though, supporters of President Donald Trump and the Trump campaign itself have failed in all their legal challenges to the process or the results of Michigan’s November 3rd elections. (https://www.michiganradio.org/post/mi-court-appeals-denies-election-fraud-case-against-detroit)

You do move goalposts like a lawyer.  I posted what refuted your total bullshit analysis of


Quote
The courts are all saying the were not in fact fraudulent and corrupt. You're unwilling to accept those rulings because of your partisan bias.

...


At some point there will be a reckoning for how you are behaving right now about this election.

You know damn well that the courts are not ruling on whether the election was fraud-free, or not fraud-free.  But you want people to believe otherwise.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 25, 2020, 07:03:08 PM
Greetings!

This election has been so full of fraud and corruption. Full investigations and audits need to be done, and all of these corrupt pollsters, workers, election officials, and slimy politicians need to fucking pay.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

They are doing investigations. They are going to courts. The courts are all saying the were not in fact fraudulent and corrupt. You're unwilling to accept those rulings because of your partisan bias. Despite similar stuff happening when Trump won, at the same locations, where you didn't have a complaint but did call Clinton a sore loser at the time.

At some point there will be a reckoning for how you are behaving right now about this election. Let's hope your reckoning is kinder and gentler than the one you wish on your political opposites.

Greetings!

You must have missed drinking some morning coffee, Mistwell.

Court cases are proceeding in Georgia, Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania--and maybe still Nevada.

I think all of these scum interfering and performing fraud and corruption in our elections need to pay. I hope they never see daylight. In a different time, well--they would all be hanged. Every last one of them. In public, for all to see.

As for reckoning? For me? *laughing* I am well-prepared. ;D



(http://)

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 25, 2020, 07:31:39 PM
Are you seriously arguing projects like the TVA and Hoover Dam and San Francisco Bridge and the intercontinental highway would have just been built by private industry without at least Government backed loans? Please.
Maybe there would have been ferries, instead of a giant bridge. But if the bridge made more sense, then it would have been built. Dams are even easier, because they could easily estimate the power output and compare that to projected needs, and potential profits. The intercontinental highway system? It wouldn't have been as standardized, but something equivalent would have probably sprung up. It would probably have been more of a patchwork differing from state to state, and more pay as you go, but it wouldn't have been a huge subsidy for trucking companies, so railroads might have flourished instead.

Though the TVA never made the slightest bit of sense, so no, that wouldn't have been created by the private market. The only reason the TVA still exists or ever existed is because of government enforced monopoly powers.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 25, 2020, 08:21:11 PM
Court cases are proceeding in Georgia, Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania--and maybe still Nevada.

Here is the current status of all cases in those states. Note that the first three of the states you mention no longer have any remaining active cases. That doesn't mean there could not be a future appeal, but right now cases are not in fact proceeding in those three states.

Georgia [ NO REMAINING ACTIVE CASES ]

U.S. District Court, Northern District: In Wood v. Raffensperger, an Atlanta lawyer and Trump supporter sought an injunction to prevent a statewide canvass, arguing that a consent decree wrongly imposes an invalid procedure to verify voter signatures.

Status: Dismissed.
U.S. District Court, Southern District: In Brooks v. Mahoney, four Republican voters claimed that a voting machine software glitch caused a miscounting of votes.

Status: Dismissed.
Chatham County Superior Court: The Georgia Republican Party and the Trump campaign sought a reminder that mail-in ballots arriving late would not be counted.

Status: Dismissed.

Arizona [ NO REMAINING ACTIVE CASES ]

Maricopa County Superior Court: In Arizona Republican Party v. Fontes, the Republicans sought a hand recount of the ballots cast in Maricopa County by precinct. The GOP does not allege fraud, but it claims that the audit of votes did not meet state law.

Status: Dismissed.
Maricopa County Superior Court: In Trump v. Hobbs, the Trump campaign claimed that using Sharpies to fill in mail-in ballots caused an overvote and invalidated ballots.

Status: Dismissed.

Michigan [ NO REMAINING ACTIVE CASES ]

U.S. District Court, Western District: In Johnson/Stoddard v. Benson, two Trump supporters made generalized allegations of voter fraud.

Status: Withdrawn.
U.S. District Court, Western District: In Trump v. Benson, the campaign claimed that Wayne County denied election challengers proper access to watch election workers handle ballots.

Status: Withdrawn.
Wayne County Circuit Court, Court of Appeals: In Constantino v. Detroit, two Republican poll challengers alleged irregularities in the vote.

Status: Denied. The plaintiffs have appealed to the state Supreme Court.
Wayne County Circuit Court: In Stoddard v. Detroit, the plaintiffs claimed that ballots were improperly duplicated by Democratic Party inspectors.

Status: Denied.
Michigan Court of Claims: In Trump v. Benson, the campaign sought to have more poll observers watch the vote count.

Status: Denied. The plaintiffs appealed to the appellate court. Judge Cynthia D. Stephens said in her opinion that the case was "inadmissible hearsay within hearsay." "I heard someone else say something," Michigan Judge Cynthia Stephens said Thursday, summing up an affidavit submitted by the Trump campaign. "Tell me how that is not hearsay. Come on now!"
U.S. District Court, Western District: In Bally v. Whitmer, a group of voters disputed election results in three counties based on allegations of voting irregularities and fraud.

Status: Withdrawn.

Wisconsin

U.S. District Court, Eastern District: In Langenhorst v. Pecore, Republicans made generalized allegations of voter fraud that relied on third-party accounts.

Status: Dismissed.

Wisconsin Supreme Court: In Wisconsin Voters Alliance v. Wisconsin Election Commission, a conservative group claims that the five cities of Kenosha, Green Bay, Madison, Milwaukee and Racine illegally accepted grants from Facebook CEO, Mark Zuckerburg to improve election systems. They also claim that officials failed to get voter identification for some mail-in ballots.

Status: Active.

Pennsylvania

3rd U.S. Court of Appeals: In Bognet v. Boockvar, Republicans argued that the extended mail-in ballot deadline challenged the constitution.

Status: Denied.
U.S. District Court, Eastern District: In Barnette v. Lawrence, the GOP lawsuit claimed that Montgomery County wrongly allowed mail-in voters the chance to cure ballots.

Status: Dismissed.
U.S. District Court, Eastern District: In Trump v. Philadelphia County Board of Elections, the Trump campaign argued that there was insufficient access by observers.

Status: Denied. The Trump campaign later admitted that there were a "nonzero number of people in the room" observing the vote count, including some affiliated with the campaign. Judge Paul S. Diamond shot back, "I'm sorry, then what's your problem?"
U.S. District Court, Middle District: In Pirkle v. Wolf, four voter plaintiffs generalized allegations of fraud, based on complaints issued by third parties.

Status: Withdrawn.
Pennsylvania Supreme Court: In response to the Canvass of Absentee and Mail-in Ballots, Republicans claim that Philadelphia did not give election observers enough access.

Status: Denied. The court reversed the petition allowing an appeal. The court rejected the Trump campaign's claim that mail-in ballots with minor flaws must be rejected.
Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court: In Hamm v. Boockvar, Republicans claimed that the state wrongly allowed voters to cast provisional ballots to cure invalid mail ballots.

Status: Denied.
Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court: Northampton Republicans challenged notifications of votes that were canceled during prescreening.

Status: Withdrawn.
Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court: In Trump v. Boockvar, the campaign challenged the three-day deadline extension given to mail-in voters missing identification to supply proof of identification.

Status: Relief granted. The court found that the secretary of state had no authority to provide an extension. The secretary of state's office has said the total number of votes is probably fewer than 100 statewide.
Court of Common Pleas, Bucks County: Both the Republican National Committee and the Trump campaign challenged over 2,000 mail-in ballots.

Status: Active. The Democratic National Committee and Bucks County seek an immediate review in Pennsylvania's Supreme Court of whether minor oversights can invalidate ballots.
Montgomery County Court of Common Pleas: In Trump v. Montgomery County Board of Elections, the Trump campaign and the RNC challenged about 600 mail-in ballots that lacked voters' addresses.

Status: Withdrawn.
U.S. Supreme Court: In Republican Party of Pennsylvania v. Boockvar, Republicans challenged the extended mail-in ballot deadline.

Status: Active.
U.S. District Court, Middle District: In Trump v. Boockvar, the campaign is arguing that different provisional ballot practices violate equal protection.

Status: Active.
A federal judge dismissed the suit Saturday in a scathing opinion: "This claim, like Frankenstein's Monster, has been haphazardly stitched together," Judge Matthew Brann wrote.
The Trump campaign on Monday appealed Saturday's ruling in a document riddled with perplexing logic and multiple grammatical errors.
Pennsylvania Supreme Court: The Trump campaign appealed a Philadelphia County Board of Elections decision to count five different categories of mail-in and absentee ballots.

Status: Active. The court is reviewing whether the state election code allows curing some mail-in ballots by casting provisional ballots.
Pennsylvania Supreme Court: In Ziccarelli v. Allegheny County Board of Elections, Nicole Ziccarelli, a GOP legislative candidate, challenged 2,349 undated mail-in ballots.

Status: Stayed. Ziccarelli sought an injunction Monday to stop the certification of votes in Allegheny County.
Court of Common Pleas for Westmoreland County: Ziccarelli is also challenging a small number of provisional ballots.

Status: Pending.
Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court: In Kelly v. Pennsylvania, a group of Republicans, led by Rep. Mike Kelly, claimed that the state's no-excuse mail ballot law violates the state constitution. They sought an order blocking certification of most mail-in votes or that directs the state Assembly to choose the presidential electors.

Status: Active. The court on Wednesday issued a temporary blocking of any action to certify votes in Pennsylvania, “to the extent that there remains any further action to perfect the certification.” A hearing is set for Friday. The state has sought a supreme court review.


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 25, 2020, 08:27:02 PM
Court cases are proceeding in Georgia, Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania--and maybe still Nevada.

Here is the current status of all cases in those states. Note that the first three of the states you mention no longer have any remaining active cases. That doesn't mean there could not be a future appeal, but right now cases are not in fact proceeding in those three states.

Georgia [ NO REMAINING ACTIVE CASES ]

U.S. District Court, Northern District: In Wood v. Raffensperger, an Atlanta lawyer and Trump supporter sought an injunction to prevent a statewide canvass, arguing that a consent decree wrongly imposes an invalid procedure to verify voter signatures.

Status: Dismissed.
U.S. District Court, Southern District: In Brooks v. Mahoney, four Republican voters claimed that a voting machine software glitch caused a miscounting of votes.

Status: Dismissed.
Chatham County Superior Court: The Georgia Republican Party and the Trump campaign sought a reminder that mail-in ballots arriving late would not be counted.

Status: Dismissed.

Arizona [ NO REMAINING ACTIVE CASES ]

Maricopa County Superior Court: In Arizona Republican Party v. Fontes, the Republicans sought a hand recount of the ballots cast in Maricopa County by precinct. The GOP does not allege fraud, but it claims that the audit of votes did not meet state law.

Status: Dismissed.
Maricopa County Superior Court: In Trump v. Hobbs, the Trump campaign claimed that using Sharpies to fill in mail-in ballots caused an overvote and invalidated ballots.

Status: Dismissed.

Michigan [ NO REMAINING ACTIVE CASES ]

U.S. District Court, Western District: In Johnson/Stoddard v. Benson, two Trump supporters made generalized allegations of voter fraud.

Status: Withdrawn.
U.S. District Court, Western District: In Trump v. Benson, the campaign claimed that Wayne County denied election challengers proper access to watch election workers handle ballots.

Status: Withdrawn.
Wayne County Circuit Court, Court of Appeals: In Constantino v. Detroit, two Republican poll challengers alleged irregularities in the vote.

Status: Denied. The plaintiffs have appealed to the state Supreme Court.
Wayne County Circuit Court: In Stoddard v. Detroit, the plaintiffs claimed that ballots were improperly duplicated by Democratic Party inspectors.

Status: Denied.
Michigan Court of Claims: In Trump v. Benson, the campaign sought to have more poll observers watch the vote count.

Status: Denied. The plaintiffs appealed to the appellate court. Judge Cynthia D. Stephens said in her opinion that the case was "inadmissible hearsay within hearsay." "I heard someone else say something," Michigan Judge Cynthia Stephens said Thursday, summing up an affidavit submitted by the Trump campaign. "Tell me how that is not hearsay. Come on now!"
U.S. District Court, Western District: In Bally v. Whitmer, a group of voters disputed election results in three counties based on allegations of voting irregularities and fraud.

Status: Withdrawn.

Wisconsin

U.S. District Court, Eastern District: In Langenhorst v. Pecore, Republicans made generalized allegations of voter fraud that relied on third-party accounts.

Status: Dismissed.

Wisconsin Supreme Court: In Wisconsin Voters Alliance v. Wisconsin Election Commission, a conservative group claims that the five cities of Kenosha, Green Bay, Madison, Milwaukee and Racine illegally accepted grants from Facebook CEO, Mark Zuckerburg to improve election systems. They also claim that officials failed to get voter identification for some mail-in ballots.

Status: Active.

Pennsylvania

3rd U.S. Court of Appeals: In Bognet v. Boockvar, Republicans argued that the extended mail-in ballot deadline challenged the constitution.

Status: Denied.
U.S. District Court, Eastern District: In Barnette v. Lawrence, the GOP lawsuit claimed that Montgomery County wrongly allowed mail-in voters the chance to cure ballots.

Status: Dismissed.
U.S. District Court, Eastern District: In Trump v. Philadelphia County Board of Elections, the Trump campaign argued that there was insufficient access by observers.

Status: Denied. The Trump campaign later admitted that there were a "nonzero number of people in the room" observing the vote count, including some affiliated with the campaign. Judge Paul S. Diamond shot back, "I'm sorry, then what's your problem?"
U.S. District Court, Middle District: In Pirkle v. Wolf, four voter plaintiffs generalized allegations of fraud, based on complaints issued by third parties.

Status: Withdrawn.
Pennsylvania Supreme Court: In response to the Canvass of Absentee and Mail-in Ballots, Republicans claim that Philadelphia did not give election observers enough access.

Status: Denied. The court reversed the petition allowing an appeal. The court rejected the Trump campaign's claim that mail-in ballots with minor flaws must be rejected.
Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court: In Hamm v. Boockvar, Republicans claimed that the state wrongly allowed voters to cast provisional ballots to cure invalid mail ballots.

Status: Denied.
Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court: Northampton Republicans challenged notifications of votes that were canceled during prescreening.

Status: Withdrawn.
Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court: In Trump v. Boockvar, the campaign challenged the three-day deadline extension given to mail-in voters missing identification to supply proof of identification.

Status: Relief granted. The court found that the secretary of state had no authority to provide an extension. The secretary of state's office has said the total number of votes is probably fewer than 100 statewide.
Court of Common Pleas, Bucks County: Both the Republican National Committee and the Trump campaign challenged over 2,000 mail-in ballots.

Status: Active. The Democratic National Committee and Bucks County seek an immediate review in Pennsylvania's Supreme Court of whether minor oversights can invalidate ballots.
Montgomery County Court of Common Pleas: In Trump v. Montgomery County Board of Elections, the Trump campaign and the RNC challenged about 600 mail-in ballots that lacked voters' addresses.

Status: Withdrawn.
U.S. Supreme Court: In Republican Party of Pennsylvania v. Boockvar, Republicans challenged the extended mail-in ballot deadline.

Status: Active.
U.S. District Court, Middle District: In Trump v. Boockvar, the campaign is arguing that different provisional ballot practices violate equal protection.

Status: Active.
A federal judge dismissed the suit Saturday in a scathing opinion: "This claim, like Frankenstein's Monster, has been haphazardly stitched together," Judge Matthew Brann wrote.
The Trump campaign on Monday appealed Saturday's ruling in a document riddled with perplexing logic and multiple grammatical errors.
Pennsylvania Supreme Court: The Trump campaign appealed a Philadelphia County Board of Elections decision to count five different categories of mail-in and absentee ballots.

Status: Active. The court is reviewing whether the state election code allows curing some mail-in ballots by casting provisional ballots.
Pennsylvania Supreme Court: In Ziccarelli v. Allegheny County Board of Elections, Nicole Ziccarelli, a GOP legislative candidate, challenged 2,349 undated mail-in ballots.

Status: Stayed. Ziccarelli sought an injunction Monday to stop the certification of votes in Allegheny County.
Court of Common Pleas for Westmoreland County: Ziccarelli is also challenging a small number of provisional ballots.

Status: Pending.
Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court: In Kelly v. Pennsylvania, a group of Republicans, led by Rep. Mike Kelly, claimed that the state's no-excuse mail ballot law violates the state constitution. They sought an order blocking certification of most mail-in votes or that directs the state Assembly to choose the presidential electors.

Status: Active. The court on Wednesday issued a temporary blocking of any action to certify votes in Pennsylvania, “to the extent that there remains any further action to perfect the certification.” A hearing is set for Friday. The state has sought a supreme court review.
Looks like SHARK got bit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 25, 2020, 08:48:41 PM
Court cases are proceeding in Georgia, Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania--and maybe still Nevada.

Here is the current status of all cases in those states. Note that the first three of the states you mention no longer have any remaining active cases. That doesn't mean there could not be a future appeal, but right now cases are not in fact proceeding in those three states.

Georgia [ NO REMAINING ACTIVE CASES ]
--snipp--
Status: Active. The court on Wednesday issued a temporary blocking of any action to certify votes in Pennsylvania, “to the extent that there remains any further action to perfect the certification.” A hearing is set for Friday. The state has sought a supreme court review.
Looks like SHARK got bit.

Found out more about SHARK and the KRAKEN:
https://breakingdefense.com/2013/04/army-releases-the-kraken-to-protect-foreign-fire-bases-id-lik/
https://themarshallreport.wordpress.com/2020/11/22/sidney-powells-kraken-is-dod-cyber-warfare-program-we-are-at-war
http://tapnewswire.com/2020/11/intelligence-update-the-great-reset-vs-the-great-awakening-the-grand-battle-taking-place-right-now-for-the-future-of-america-and-the-free-world/
https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-19-replacing-mark-esper-now-acting-defense-secretary-chris-miller-activates-special-operations-forces-to-report-directly-to-him.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXN7v4waSmw

IF the above is true, then....

For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven; a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; a time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.  (Ecclesiastes 3:1-8)  THIS IS NOT A TIME TO BE SILENT!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 25, 2020, 09:29:53 PM
Court cases are proceeding in Georgia, Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania--and maybe still Nevada.

Here is the current status of all cases in those states. Note that the first three of the states you mention no longer have any remaining active cases. That doesn't mean there could not be a future appeal, but right now cases are not in fact proceeding in those three states.

Georgia [ NO REMAINING ACTIVE CASES ]
--snipp--
Status: Active. The court on Wednesday issued a temporary blocking of any action to certify votes in Pennsylvania, “to the extent that there remains any further action to perfect the certification.” A hearing is set for Friday. The state has sought a supreme court review.
Looks like SHARK got bit.

Found out more about SHARK and the KRAKEN:
https://breakingdefense.com/2013/04/army-releases-the-kraken-to-protect-foreign-fire-bases-id-lik/
https://themarshallreport.wordpress.com/2020/11/22/sidney-powells-kraken-is-dod-cyber-warfare-program-we-are-at-war
http://tapnewswire.com/2020/11/intelligence-update-the-great-reset-vs-the-great-awakening-the-grand-battle-taking-place-right-now-for-the-future-of-america-and-the-free-world/
https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-19-replacing-mark-esper-now-acting-defense-secretary-chris-miller-activates-special-operations-forces-to-report-directly-to-him.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXN7v4waSmw

IF the above is true, then....

For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven; a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; a time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.  (Ecclesiastes 3:1-8)  THIS IS NOT A TIME TO BE SILENT!
That's some grade A conspiracy theory nonsense you posted there. You say "IF the above is true" as though there's a chance in hell. Of course,  the nutters on this site are likely to eat this shit up.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 25, 2020, 09:32:13 PM
Greetings!

Yep. Some cases in the various contested states have been dismissed. More are being filed, and appealed.

Guess what happens when the Trump Campaign pushes these various cases--as well as Lin Wood, Sidney Powell, and other attorneys--to the United States Supreme Court?

Oh, yeah. All of the main contested states are overseen by SCOTUS Alito, Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas, and other conservative justices.

And you can keep the shrieking nonsense about Lin Wood or Sidney Powell being crazy. Attorney Lin Wood just got done winning the Sandman case against CNN and the Washington Post for 250 MILLION dollars, with more to come. Oh yeah, the Sandman case, where the cock-sucking Liberals tried to fabricate, lie, and deceive the American public, again. Sidney Powell, as I understand--has been an excellent Federal Prosecutor for many years. Yeah, Federal Prosecutors are known for being incompetent and crazy, right? Oh, that's right, Sidney Powell just spearheaded the case that blew the fucking lying Liberals to hell in their corrupt case against General Flynn. Remember the scandal? Just a few months ago, all the cock-sucking Liberals, the Democrats, the corrupt agents in the FBI, they were all fucking disgraced and covered in shit. Their attempts at crucifying General Flynn was entirely corrupt BS.

So, the future developments should be interesting!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 25, 2020, 11:14:09 PM
Court cases are proceeding in Georgia, Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania--and maybe still Nevada.

Here is the current status of all cases in those states. Note that the first three of the states you mention no longer have any remaining active cases. That doesn't mean there could not be a future appeal, but right now cases are not in fact proceeding in those three states.

Georgia [ NO REMAINING ACTIVE CASES ]
--snipp--
Status: Active. The court on Wednesday issued a temporary blocking of any action to certify votes in Pennsylvania, “to the extent that there remains any further action to perfect the certification.” A hearing is set for Friday. The state has sought a supreme court review.
Looks like SHARK got bit.

Found out more about SHARK and the KRAKEN:
--snipp--
That's some grade A conspiracy theory nonsense you posted there. You say "IF the above is true" as though there's a chance in hell. Of course,  the nutters on this site are likely to eat this shit up.
I have no evidence to prove it as a theory nor do I have any evidence to say it is the absolute truth.
What I find interesting is how people react to this. You react as if it threatens you personally. I try to post unusual and interesting information. I also accuse and call people out, but hardly ever by name. Many people think I specifically called them something - taking great offense - when what I was posting was not about/i] them. Interesting how people identify themselves as something, isn't it HD?
Why is what I post so threatening to you and others?
Or are you just trolling?
It's interesting to me either way.
-----------------------------------------------------------
It's also interesting to my 'friends', I would think. Can't wait for you all to show up at the house again. We'll have a good chin-wag we didn't have last time. I guess my old plan is working... kinda.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 25, 2020, 11:21:05 PM
I have no evidence to prove it as a theory nor do I have any evidence to say it is the absolute truth.
What I find interesting is how people react to this. You react as if it threatens you personally. I try to post unusual and interesting information. I also accuse and call people out, but hardly ever by name. Many people think I specifically called them something - taking great offense - when what I was posting was not about/i] them. Interesting how people identify themselves as something, isn't it HD?
Why is what I post so threatening to you and others?
Or are you just trolling?
It's interesting to me either way.

Some people only support officially approved conspiracy hypothesis like, in Happy Daze case, the Wuhan Covid 19 conspiracy hypothesis and do not approve other unpopular conspiracy hypothesis like Election corruption for example.

There are some posters here who only just managed to survive the Trump telling them to drink Bleach conspiracy hypothesis.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on November 25, 2020, 11:30:22 PM
I am making a conscious effort to avoid posting in the Pundit's subforum and focus more on gaming threads, though I honestly find the current well a bit dry, and have for some time, but I thought I'd post this article and see what both sides think...

https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5-more-ways-joe-biden-magically-outperformed-election-norms/ (https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5-more-ways-joe-biden-magically-outperformed-election-norms/)


Its all about the record setting performance of Biden's election.


Prediction: From the Mistwells and Happydaze's of the thread I expect a lot of comments about how its not Pravda.
                 From the Sharks and Spinachcats I expect... I dunno... laughing amusement? Something...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 25, 2020, 11:35:48 PM
Greetings!

Yep. Some cases in the various contested states have been dismissed. More are being filed, and appealed.

Guess what happens when the Trump Campaign pushes these various cases--as well as Lin Wood, Sidney Powell, and other attorneys--to the United States Supreme Court?

Oh, yeah. All of the main contested states are overseen by SCOTUS Alito, Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas, and other conservative justices.

First most are state issues and not federal issues and cannot go to the USSC. Second, the USSC will not intervene on a case which has no basis and is dismissed. It needs at least an appeal able error than an appeals court is willing to take up and they are not taking most up. Third the idea that conservatives on the Court will side with Trump purely from partisan bias is as absurd as liberals thinking the Court is partisan on everything as well. News alert: the Court isn't near as partisan as you think and there is no chance they will vote in favor of Trump on any of this shit. They won't even take the cases. Because they are extremely weak cases which do not add up to a change in the election result.

Quote
Sidney Powell, as I understand--has been an excellent Federal Prosecutor for many years. Yeah, Federal Prosecutors are known for being incompetent and crazy, right? Oh, that's right, Sidney Powell just spearheaded the case that blew the fucking lying Liberals to hell in their corrupt case against General Flynn. Remember the scandal? Just a few months ago, all the cock-sucking Liberals, the Democrats, the corrupt agents in the FBI, they were all fucking disgraced and covered in shit. Their attempts at crucifying General Flynn was entirely corrupt BS.

She's trying to cut book deals and get a show on a political commentary network. You are a sucker for falling for it. You will feel embarrassed in a few months for being such a sucker. You will deny it because you don't hold yourself accountable for your mistakes, but you will still feel embarrassed because you were such a sucker.

This is only going in one direction, and you are in denial. When it finally hits you this was all just bullshit and isn't going anywhere, you will bluster and bluff and try and save face. But the rest of us will have seen how you behaved through this, how out of touch with reality you were, and you will never fully recover your prior reputation because of that. Because we will all know you were such a fool during all this, who fell for the stupidest shit like he was fresh off the boat. And it will taint everything you write thereafter. You will no longer have the gravitas you once had. And that's a shame. But it's your own doing. Because you were just too stubborn to actually step back and assess when you knew you should.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 25, 2020, 11:45:05 PM
Greetings!

Yep. Some cases in the various contested states have been dismissed. More are being filed, and appealed.

Guess what happens when the Trump Campaign pushes these various cases--as well as Lin Wood, Sidney Powell, and other attorneys--to the United States Supreme Court?

Oh, yeah. All of the main contested states are overseen by SCOTUS Alito, Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas, and other conservative justices.

First most are state issues and not federal issues and cannot go to the USSC. Second, the USSC will not intervene on a case which has no basis and is dismissed. It needs at least an appeal able error than an appeals court is willing to take up and they are not taking most up. Third the idea that conservatives on the Court will side with Trump purely from partisan bias is as absurd as liberals thinking the Court is partisan on everything as well. News alert: the Court isn't near as partisan as you think and there is no chance they will vote in favor of Trump on any of this shit. They won't even take the cases. Because they are extremely weak cases which do not add up to a change in the election result.

Quote
Sidney Powell, as I understand--has been an excellent Federal Prosecutor for many years. Yeah, Federal Prosecutors are known for being incompetent and crazy, right? Oh, that's right, Sidney Powell just spearheaded the case that blew the fucking lying Liberals to hell in their corrupt case against General Flynn. Remember the scandal? Just a few months ago, all the cock-sucking Liberals, the Democrats, the corrupt agents in the FBI, they were all fucking disgraced and covered in shit. Their attempts at crucifying General Flynn was entirely corrupt BS.

She's trying to cut book deals and get a show on a political commentary network. You are a sucker for falling for it. You will feel embarrassed in a few months for being such a sucker. You will deny it because you don't hold yourself accountable for your mistakes, but you will still feel embarrassed because you were such a sucker.

This is only going in one direction, and you are in denial. When it finally hits you this was all just bullshit and isn't going anywhere, you will bluster and bluff and try and save face. But the rest of us will have seen how you behaved through this, how out of touch with reality you were, and you will never fully recover your prior reputation because of that. Because we will all know you were such a fool during all this, who fell for the stupidest shit like he was fresh off the boat. And it will taint everything you write thereafter. You will no longer have the gravitas you once had. And that's a shame. But it's your own doing. Because you were just too stubborn to actually step back and assess when you knew you should.
Seeing that forgiveness is something you all abhor, probably because Christianity is weakness to you,  perhaps you should have the gravitas to drag them from their home and put a bullet in the back of their head. If you can't forgive, then be merciful perhaps? Or is it sadism that gets you all off? Remember, they never talked about cutting Joe Biden's head off, nor do they go around beating up those weaker than they are. Must make you all feel superior. I think that's it, right?

--snipp--
Some people only support officially approved conspiracy hypothesis like, in Happy Daze case, the Wuhan Covid 19 conspiracy hypothesis and do not approve other unpopular conspiracy hypothesis like Election corruption for example.

There are some posters here who only just managed to survive the Trump telling them to drink Bleach conspiracy hypothesis.
thanks! Good to know that one!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 26, 2020, 12:20:38 AM
Greetings!

Yep. Some cases in the various contested states have been dismissed. More are being filed, and appealed.

Guess what happens when the Trump Campaign pushes these various cases--as well as Lin Wood, Sidney Powell, and other attorneys--to the United States Supreme Court?

Oh, yeah. All of the main contested states are overseen by SCOTUS Alito, Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas, and other conservative justices.

First most are state issues and not federal issues and cannot go to the USSC. Second, the USSC will not intervene on a case which has no basis and is dismissed. It needs at least an appeal able error than an appeals court is willing to take up and they are not taking most up. Third the idea that conservatives on the Court will side with Trump purely from partisan bias is as absurd as liberals thinking the Court is partisan on everything as well. News alert: the Court isn't near as partisan as you think and there is no chance they will vote in favor of Trump on any of this shit. They won't even take the cases. Because they are extremely weak cases which do not add up to a change in the election result.

Quote
Sidney Powell, as I understand--has been an excellent Federal Prosecutor for many years. Yeah, Federal Prosecutors are known for being incompetent and crazy, right? Oh, that's right, Sidney Powell just spearheaded the case that blew the fucking lying Liberals to hell in their corrupt case against General Flynn. Remember the scandal? Just a few months ago, all the cock-sucking Liberals, the Democrats, the corrupt agents in the FBI, they were all fucking disgraced and covered in shit. Their attempts at crucifying General Flynn was entirely corrupt BS.

She's trying to cut book deals and get a show on a political commentary network. You are a sucker for falling for it. You will feel embarrassed in a few months for being such a sucker. You will deny it because you don't hold yourself accountable for your mistakes, but you will still feel embarrassed because you were such a sucker.

This is only going in one direction, and you are in denial. When it finally hits you this was all just bullshit and isn't going anywhere, you will bluster and bluff and try and save face. But the rest of us will have seen how you behaved through this, how out of touch with reality you were, and you will never fully recover your prior reputation because of that. Because we will all know you were such a fool during all this, who fell for the stupidest shit like he was fresh off the boat. And it will taint everything you write thereafter. You will no longer have the gravitas you once had. And that's a shame. But it's your own doing. Because you were just too stubborn to actually step back and assess when you knew you should.

Greetings!

Well, Sidney Powell is the lawyer. She will argue her case, as will other attorneys involved. I'm not a lawyer, and never claimed to be one. I am able, however, to comment on the political and legal developments as I see fit. It seems quite obvious to me that a range of fraud and corruption has gone on during this election. You may choose to ignore such, or deny it, though I have no confidence or faith whatsoever in the Democrat Party. The Democrat Party has engaged in a constant litany of lies, fraud, corruption, and disgraceful propaganda since the beginning of President Donald Trump's term in office. Therefore, I am not surprised in the slightest that the Democrat Party would seek to win the 2020 Presidential Election through efforts of deception, fraud, and corruption. Indeed, I am angry and have been passionate in my commentary about the implications for our Republic, and the future genuine political freedom of our country, seeing that Marxists have gained unprecedented power and influence within the Democrat Party, various echelons within government agency bureaucracies, and the increasingly authoritarianism of the Big Tech corporations. In my mind, these political dynamics are in motion and gaining in strength and power, regardless of whatever happens with the judicial and legislative proceedings and efforts pursued by President Trump and his Campaign.

Furthermore, I have always supported President Trump. I am proudly *Conservative* and a patriot. I don't support or approve of Biden and Kamala as government leaders, let alone them serving at the highest positions of political leadership in this country. The entire ideology and political goals of the Marxist Democrats is entirely oppositional to everything that I believe in and value. Politically, economically, socially, religiously, I think the Marxist Democrats are wrong in virtually every way, on everything. Marxist Democrats are poisonous and hateful to our Republic and our great nation, and our noble heritage, passed down to us by our courageous forefathers.

I have no regrets, and make no apologies.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 26, 2020, 01:41:44 AM
I have to say, the revelations from the Pennsylvania case are hilarious. Almost 600,000 postal votes injected into the process in the small hours of the morning, 572,000 for Biden, 3,200 for Trump.

Nothing suspicious there at all. Nope, nothing to see here, move along.

Trump and allies have one out of (checking Marc E. Elias twitter) 39 cases. That one case invalidated a small number of ballots that were never included in the vote count. They talk a lot of fraud outside the courtroom but not in it, because they have no real evidence. Pennsylvania has already certified the presidential election result. So, yeah, nothing to see.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 26, 2020, 01:54:39 AM
Oh and the media seem to want people to think that boogalooers are "right wing". I have seen lots of leftists thinking this because the media keep saying it. They protested against the police after George Floyd died, and one of them has supported Hamas. Does that sound right wing to anyone?

One of them isn't right wing? It is unclear whether their participation in BLM protests was in support or to discredit BLM or just to foment violence; the first seem unlikely but maybe that Hamas one... The would-be kidnappers of Governor Whitmer were connected to the Boogalooers.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/boogaloo-boys-movement-who-are-they-what-do-they-believe
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/white-supremacist-boogaloo/

Your turn to provide some actual evidence.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 26, 2020, 02:19:14 AM
Greetings!

Conservative Resurgence program discusses more developments in Pennsylvania today, Wednesday, November 25, 2020.

Very interesting indeed.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 26, 2020, 02:23:15 AM
Greetings!

Rudi Juliani speaks at the hearing in Pennsylvania, discussing a wide range of details concerning the 2020 Election, and elements of fraud. Witnesses certified under Perjury also testify in the hearings with Pennsylvania Legislators.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 26, 2020, 02:46:30 AM
Greetings!

Officer Brandon Tatum hosts a livestream and discusses the hearings in Pennsylvania, evidence of potential fraud and more corruption.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kiero on November 26, 2020, 04:35:46 AM
Trump and allies have one out of (checking Marc E. Elias twitter) 39 cases. That one case invalidated a small number of ballots that were never included in the vote count. They talk a lot of fraud outside the courtroom but not in it, because they have no real evidence. Pennsylvania has already certified the presidential election result. So, yeah, nothing to see.

Pennsylvania hasn't certified, they've been blocked from doing so.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: TrekkieKT on November 26, 2020, 05:17:22 AM
Already appealed to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court and had a stay applied preventing the lower courts order blocking the certification from being enforced.

Trump and allies have one out of (checking Marc E. Elias twitter) 39 cases. That one case invalidated a small number of ballots that were never included in the vote count. They talk a lot of fraud outside the courtroom but not in it, because they have no real evidence. Pennsylvania has already certified the presidential election result. So, yeah, nothing to see.

Pennsylvania hasn't certified, they've been blocked from doing so.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 26, 2020, 09:04:45 AM
Greetings!

Yep. Some cases in the various contested states have been dismissed. More are being filed, and appealed.

Guess what happens when the Trump Campaign pushes these various cases--as well as Lin Wood, Sidney Powell, and other attorneys--to the United States Supreme Court?

Oh, yeah. All of the main contested states are overseen by SCOTUS Alito, Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas, and other conservative justices.

And you can keep the shrieking nonsense about Lin Wood or Sidney Powell being crazy. Attorney Lin Wood just got done winning the Sandman case against CNN and the Washington Post for 250 MILLION dollars, with more to come. Oh yeah, the Sandman case, where the cock-sucking Liberals tried to fabricate, lie, and deceive the American public, again. Sidney Powell, as I understand--has been an excellent Federal Prosecutor for many years. Yeah, Federal Prosecutors are known for being incompetent and crazy, right? Oh, that's right, Sidney Powell just spearheaded the case that blew the fucking lying Liberals to hell in their corrupt case against General Flynn. Remember the scandal? Just a few months ago, all the cock-sucking Liberals, the Democrats, the corrupt agents in the FBI, they were all fucking disgraced and covered in shit. Their attempts at crucifying General Flynn was entirely corrupt BS.

So, the future developments should be interesting!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Not to crap on your day, Shark, but strictly speaking CNN and WaPo (aka the national laughingstock) both settled with Sandmann (which I guess is a win and a technical admission of error). I also wasn't aware the amount of the settlement had been made public, though unless Wood really is an incompetent hack, it was for no less than eight figures (and probably closer to nine).

There are still four lawsuits for Sandmann in play, with the media organs desperately trying to delay, delay, delay so they can avoid discovery.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 26, 2020, 09:43:34 AM
And you can keep the shrieking nonsense about Lin Wood or Sidney Powell being crazy. Attorney Lin Wood just got done winning the Sandman case against CNN and the Washington Post for 250 MILLION dollars, with more to come. Oh yeah, the Sandman case, where the cock-sucking Liberals tried to fabricate, lie, and deceive the American public, again.
Not to crap on your day, Shark, but strictly speaking CNN and WaPo (aka the national laughingstock) both settled with Sandmann (which I guess is a win and a technical admission of error). I also wasn't aware the amount of the settlement had been made public, though unless Wood really is an incompetent hack, it was for no less than eight figures (and probably closer to nine).

There are still four lawsuits for Sandmann in play, with the media organs desperately trying to delay, delay, delay so they can avoid discovery.
$275 and $250 million are the amounts he sued CNN and The Washington Post for, not the actual amount of the settlements. Which haven't been made public, though apparently the CNN settlement would have been publicly released, if not for COVID-19. (Sandmann was a minor and couldn't claim the money without the approval of county court, which would have resulted in the amount being listed in court documents. Except the court was delayed by the pandemic until after he turned 18, so it became moot.)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/nick-sandmanns-settlement-with-cnn-was-almost-public-a-birthday-and-a-pandemic-changed-that/ar-BB18khjm
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 26, 2020, 12:06:18 PM

Your turn to provide some actual evidence.

From your own articles (and I notice how hard they try to make them sound right-wing, while failing all the same)

 "two other Boogaloo members were arrested and charged with providing material support to Hamas. "

"While “boogaloo” supporters showed up to George Floyd protests saying they wanted to stand in solidarity with Black Lives Matter protesters against police violence, some also described going to protests to “defend businesses – including big national corporations – against looters and destruction”.

Yeah, sure, that rally sounds like your typical American Right doesn't it. :D

But my point is, if you think the majority of of the violence was caused by the right, you aren't really paying attention.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 26, 2020, 01:41:27 PM
Trump and allies have one out of (checking Marc E. Elias twitter) 39 cases. That one case invalidated a small number of ballots that were never included in the vote count. They talk a lot of fraud outside the courtroom but not in it, because they have no real evidence. Pennsylvania has already certified the presidential election result. So, yeah, nothing to see.

Pennsylvania hasn't certified, they've been blocked from doing so.

https://www.media.pa.gov/pages/State-details.aspx?newsid=435
https://6abc.com/pennsylvania-election-mail-in-voting-certify-results-2020/8254952/

A day late and a decent legal argument short. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court will undoubtedly overrule the lower court's order, but it wouldn't affect the presidential election anyway; the horse left the barn the day before. It would be excellent if, before he can take his seat, plaintiff Mike Kelly has to explain to the House of Representatives why he represented to the court that his own election victory was invalid.

But I guess I can enjoy yet another Biden win in Pennsylvania when this gets shot down. I'm still not tired of all the winning, Donald Trump!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 26, 2020, 02:13:03 PM

Your turn to provide some actual evidence.

From your own articles (and I notice how hard they try to make them sound right-wing, while failing all the same)

 "two other Boogaloo members were arrested and charged with providing material support to Hamas. "

"While “boogaloo” supporters showed up to George Floyd protests saying they wanted to stand in solidarity with Black Lives Matter protesters against police violence, some also described going to protests to “defend businesses – including big national corporations – against looters and destruction”.

Yeah, sure, that rally sounds like your typical American Right doesn't it. :D

But my point is, if you think the majority of of the violence was caused by the right, you aren't really paying attention.

Two Hamas sympathizers! (Coincidentally the same number of law enforcement one of them murdered in the vicinity of a BLM protest in an attempt to blame those protesters.) Their sympathy with Hamas was opposition to the US government, and given the "deep state" fantasies on the right, that tracks well with being right wing (and Biden now as President-elect just reinforces that association of the US government with the left).

You also conveniently ignore their reverence for right-wing martyrs.
Quote
But extremism experts agree that “boogaloo” ideology overall is, in fact, rightwing.

How do they know? For one, they look at images of the “boogaloo” flag, which is sometimes emblazoned with the names of rightwing anti-government martyrs, including Americans killed in infamous standoffs with the police at Ruby Ridge in 1992 and during the occupation of the Malheur national wildlife refuge in 2016.
Even without this, it would be surprising if actual lefties who oppose the US government would join a movement that is constantly described as right wing in the media. They are from the right, incoherent as their political views and actions may be, and your arguments otherwise are pathetic. I understand why you want to disown them, given your own political leaning; your dishonest arguments are also typically right wing.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 26, 2020, 02:29:31 PM
Greetings!

Yep. Some cases in the various contested states have been dismissed. More are being filed, and appealed.

Guess what happens when the Trump Campaign pushes these various cases--as well as Lin Wood, Sidney Powell, and other attorneys--to the United States Supreme Court?

Oh, yeah. All of the main contested states are overseen by SCOTUS Alito, Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas, and other conservative justices.

First most are state issues and not federal issues and cannot go to the USSC. Second, the USSC will not intervene on a case which has no basis and is dismissed. It needs at least an appeal able error than an appeals court is willing to take up and they are not taking most up. Third the idea that conservatives on the Court will side with Trump purely from partisan bias is as absurd as liberals thinking the Court is partisan on everything as well. News alert: the Court isn't near as partisan as you think and there is no chance they will vote in favor of Trump on any of this shit. They won't even take the cases. Because they are extremely weak cases which do not add up to a change in the election result.

Quote
Sidney Powell, as I understand--has been an excellent Federal Prosecutor for many years. Yeah, Federal Prosecutors are known for being incompetent and crazy, right? Oh, that's right, Sidney Powell just spearheaded the case that blew the fucking lying Liberals to hell in their corrupt case against General Flynn. Remember the scandal? Just a few months ago, all the cock-sucking Liberals, the Democrats, the corrupt agents in the FBI, they were all fucking disgraced and covered in shit. Their attempts at crucifying General Flynn was entirely corrupt BS.

She's trying to cut book deals and get a show on a political commentary network. You are a sucker for falling for it. You will feel embarrassed in a few months for being such a sucker. You will deny it because you don't hold yourself accountable for your mistakes, but you will still feel embarrassed because you were such a sucker.

This is only going in one direction, and you are in denial. When it finally hits you this was all just bullshit and isn't going anywhere, you will bluster and bluff and try and save face. But the rest of us will have seen how you behaved through this, how out of touch with reality you were, and you will never fully recover your prior reputation because of that. Because we will all know you were such a fool during all this, who fell for the stupidest shit like he was fresh off the boat. And it will taint everything you write thereafter. You will no longer have the gravitas you once had. And that's a shame. But it's your own doing. Because you were just too stubborn to actually step back and assess when you knew you should.

Greetings!

Well, Sidney Powell is the lawyer. She will argue her case, as will other attorneys involved. I'm not a lawyer, and never claimed to be one. I am able, however, to comment on the political and legal developments as I see fit. It seems quite obvious to me that a range of fraud and corruption has gone on during this election. You may choose to ignore such, or deny it, though I have no confidence or faith whatsoever in the Democrat Party. The Democrat Party has engaged in a constant litany of lies, fraud, corruption, and disgraceful propaganda since the beginning of President Donald Trump's term in office. Therefore, I am not surprised in the slightest that the Democrat Party would seek to win the 2020 Presidential Election through efforts of deception, fraud, and corruption. Indeed, I am angry and have been passionate in my commentary about the implications for our Republic, and the future genuine political freedom of our country, seeing that Marxists have gained unprecedented power and influence within the Democrat Party, various echelons within government agency bureaucracies, and the increasingly authoritarianism of the Big Tech corporations. In my mind, these political dynamics are in motion and gaining in strength and power, regardless of whatever happens with the judicial and legislative proceedings and efforts pursued by President Trump and his Campaign.

Furthermore, I have always supported President Trump. I am proudly *Conservative* and a patriot. I don't support or approve of Biden and Kamala as government leaders, let alone them serving at the highest positions of political leadership in this country. The entire ideology and political goals of the Marxist Democrats is entirely oppositional to everything that I believe in and value. Politically, economically, socially, religiously, I think the Marxist Democrats are wrong in virtually every way, on everything. Marxist Democrats are poisonous and hateful to our Republic and our great nation, and our noble heritage, passed down to us by our courageous forefathers.

I have no regrets, and make no apologies.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I laud most of what you said (even some of the parts I disagree with). But almost none of that has do to with falling for bullshit election fraud claims that just are not panning out when put to the test of the law and courts.

You can think the Democratic party is evil, and also that Trump lost this election. The two views are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, given what happened in the House, the Senate, and the State Legislatures, it seems like a lot of America thought the Democrats unworthy of their vote, while they also didn't want to vote for Trump for President in particular. Trump isn't the Republican party itself - he was just one Republican. And you can think he lost the election while still proudly supporting the Republican party and opposing the Democratic party. Millions did just that.

That's what is paining me about this whole thing - it should be obvious by now that Trump did lose, and most of these claims about fraud turned out to be bullshit bluster (with the remainder far FAR from enough to change the election result). I know you know Trump is fond of bullshit bluster. You've seen him do it plenty of times. You knew not to take it serious when he did it before, you knew he was often trolling his political opponents when he did it - so why are you buying it this time as if you're one of those sucker Democrats who used to take his bullshit bluster trolling seriously? You had to know if he lost he'd have to lose going down with some way to save face by fighting like this so he can take up his fight in a different forum after the presidency (like a streaming network) - it's his personality. He even set up this contingency before the election. But you weren't supposed to actually believe him as he tried to save face!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 26, 2020, 02:32:47 PM

Your turn to provide some actual evidence.

From your own articles (and I notice how hard they try to make them sound right-wing, while failing all the same)

 "two other Boogaloo members were arrested and charged with providing material support to Hamas. "

"While “boogaloo” supporters showed up to George Floyd protests saying they wanted to stand in solidarity with Black Lives Matter protesters against police violence, some also described going to protests to “defend businesses – including big national corporations – against looters and destruction”.

Yeah, sure, that rally sounds like your typical American Right doesn't it. :D

But my point is, if you think the majority of of the violence was caused by the right, you aren't really paying attention.

Two Hamas sympathizers! (Coincidentally the same number of law enforcement one of them murdered in the vicinity of a BLM protest in an attempt to blame those protesters.) Their sympathy with Hamas was opposition to the US government, and given the "deep state" fantasies on the right, that tracks well with being right wing (and Biden now as President-elect just reinforces that association of the US government with the left).

You also conveniently ignore their reverence for right-wing martyrs.
Quote
But extremism experts agree that “boogaloo” ideology overall is, in fact, rightwing.

How do they know? For one, they look at images of the “boogaloo” flag, which is sometimes emblazoned with the names of rightwing anti-government martyrs, including Americans killed in infamous standoffs with the police at Ruby Ridge in 1992 and during the occupation of the Malheur national wildlife refuge in 2016.
Even without this, it would be surprising if actual lefties who oppose the US government would join a movement that is constantly described as right wing in the media. They are from the right, incoherent as their political views and actions may be, and your arguments otherwise are pathetic. I understand why you want to disown them, given your own political leaning; your dishonest arguments are also typically right wing.

So you agree that it’s two now, not one. Good. Remember you complaining complaining about reading skills? How about knowing what it is you yourself are posting for starters? :D

No, supporting Hamas and BLM isn’t right wing, no matter how desperate the media is trying to spin it. Either way, the main troublemakers aren’t Boogaloo, nor Proud Boys. It’s Antifa and BLM.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 26, 2020, 02:35:06 PM
But you weren't supposed to actually believe him

Why they are so emotionally invested in the average american individually capitulating until the process play out.  You were supposed to believe that the bigger portion of the party turned back to the Bush-GOP! 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 26, 2020, 02:49:49 PM
But you weren't supposed to actually believe him

Why they are so emotionally invested in the average american individually capitulating until the process play out.  You were supposed to believe that the bigger portion of the party turned back to the Bush-GOP!

The process did play out. The votes are certified (or at least enough to know for certain we have a winner, as those still in question are not enough electoral votes to change the result). The court cases are being dismissed. Republicans, ones Trump supported and trusted, are saying it's done and he did lose. The fat lady sung. We've crossed the point where it's sore loser territory. We all understood what sore loser territory looked like with Gore, and again with Clinton. Suddenly we've forgotten what this looks like? Have some fucking principals and be a man. Are you the kind of guy who, when he loses a game of pool, breaks the pool cue, throws some balls, and stomps out claiming the table was rigged?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 26, 2020, 03:36:53 PM
Holy Fuck, Happy Thanks Giving Kraken.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 26, 2020, 03:58:30 PM
But you weren't supposed to actually believe him

Why they are so emotionally invested in the average american individually capitulating until the process play out.  You were supposed to believe that the bigger portion of the party turned back to the Bush-GOP!

The process did play out. The votes are certified (or at least enough to know for certain we have a winner, as those still in question are not enough electoral votes to change the result). The court cases are being dismissed. Republicans, ones Trump supported and trusted, are saying it's done and he did lose. The fat lady sung. We've crossed the point where it's sore loser territory. We all understood what sore loser territory looked like with Gore, and again with Clinton. Suddenly we've forgotten what this looks like? Have some fucking principals and be a man. Are you the kind of guy who, when he loses a game of pool, breaks the pool cue, throws some balls, and stomps out claiming the table was rigged?

Neither you nor I are in the game of pool.  You're the guy not playing pool trying to get other people not playing pool to take sides against the pool player they're rooting for.  None of us control if he's inaugurated.  So chillax with implying there's a moral imperative to come to a judgement here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 26, 2020, 04:54:28 PM
Two Hamas sympathizers! (Coincidentally the same number of law enforcement one of them murdered in the vicinity of a BLM protest in an attempt to blame those protesters.) Their sympathy with Hamas was opposition to the US government, and given the "deep state" fantasies on the right, that tracks well with being right wing (and Biden now as President-elect just reinforces that association of the US government with the left).

You also conveniently ignore their reverence for right-wing martyrs.
Quote
But extremism experts agree that “boogaloo” ideology overall is, in fact, rightwing.

How do they know? For one, they look at images of the “boogaloo” flag, which is sometimes emblazoned with the names of rightwing anti-government martyrs, including Americans killed in infamous standoffs with the police at Ruby Ridge in 1992 and during the occupation of the Malheur national wildlife refuge in 2016.
Even without this, it would be surprising if actual lefties who oppose the US government would join a movement that is constantly described as right wing in the media. They are from the right, incoherent as their political views and actions may be, and your arguments otherwise are pathetic. I understand why you want to disown them, given your own political leaning; your dishonest arguments are also typically right wing.

So you agree that it’s two now, not one. Good. Remember you complaining complaining about reading skills? How about knowing what it is you yourself are posting for starters? :D

You put forward only one, so I quoted you not because I thought it an accurate number but to mock your claim that it was significant. Hint: two outliers in a crazy group of many thousands is still not significant. Maybe you can find a third! Then I can mock you again.

Quote
No, supporting Hamas and BLM isn’t right wing, no matter how desperate the media is trying to spin it. Either way, the main troublemakers aren’t Boogaloo, nor Proud Boys. It’s Antifa and BLM.

Nonsense. Trump's own acting* Secretary of Homeland Security Chad Wolf wrote in the Homeland Threat Assessment: October 2020, "However, I am particularly concerned about white supremacist violent extremists who have been exceptionally lethal in their abhorrent, targeted attacks in recent years."

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/2020_10_06_homeland-threat-assessment.pdf

Antifa is not even an organized anything, despite Trump administration attempts to put it forward as such for Trump's "law and order" campaigning (in which he endorsed the Proud Boys); BLM protests have been remarkably free of troublemakers, except for what is caused by the right wingers who try to discredit them.

* A court found him not properly appointed to that position, invalidating rules he imposed; I expect that just marks him as having even more right-wing bias.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 26, 2020, 06:14:57 PM
This is the written opinion of the judge for the US District Court in Pennsylvania. (https://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/sites/pamd/files/20-2078_202.pdf)

He's conservative, and republican. He's a prominent member of the Federalist society. He was a Republican Party official in Pennsylvania for many years. He is an active National Rifle Association member.  He was appointed on the recommendation of Republican Senator Pat Toomey.

He ruled against Trump in Pennsylvania. The opinion is worth reading. It expresses, in some ways, why I am so frustrated with some folks on this forum in this thread.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 26, 2020, 07:35:10 PM
This is the written opinion of the judge for the US District Court in Pennsylvania. (https://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/sites/pamd/files/20-2078_202.pdf)

He's conservative, and republican. He's a prominent member of the Federalist society. He was a Republican Party official in Pennsylvania for many years. He is an active National Rifle Association member.  He was appointed on the recommendation of Republican Senator Pat Toomey.

He ruled against Trump in Pennsylvania. The opinion is worth reading. It expresses, in some ways, why I am so frustrated with some folks on this forum in this thread.
Remember, according the right-wing(?) extremists that REEEE! around these parts, being conservative, Republican, or any of that means nothing the moment they take a stand against the extremists' nonsense. At that moment, they are SJWs to these morons.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: TrekkieKT on November 26, 2020, 08:55:52 PM
This is the written opinion of the judge for the US District Court in Pennsylvania. (https://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/sites/pamd/files/20-2078_202.pdf)

He's conservative, and republican. He's a prominent member of the Federalist society. He was a Republican Party official in Pennsylvania for many years. He is an active National Rifle Association member.  He was appointed on the recommendation of Republican Senator Pat Toomey.

He ruled against Trump in Pennsylvania. The opinion is worth reading. It expresses, in some ways, why I am so frustrated with some folks on this forum in this thread.

Thank you for the link.
It was...enlightening.

In summary:
The plantiff voter's votes were not counted because there were defects on their mail in ballots and their counties chose NOT to follow the suggestion of the Secretary of State to allow voters to "cure" (cast provisional ballots in place of their mail-in) their ballots.

Their complaint failed because:


In terms of the Trump Campaign: they don't have standing: they represent his desire to be re-elected. Him NOT being re-elected by the voters of Pennsylvania isn't an injury, it's the result of a political process and hence they have no standing.

Beyond that, he also addresses equal protection argument and the remedy requested.

The standard for an equal protection claim on the right to vote is that the "imposed burden" must be outweighed by the state's reason for applying the burden.
The Secretary of State DIDN'T apply a burden.
He gave counties the option to cure ballots.
Those that chose to cure votes where arguably removing a burden to voting.

He also found that their requested remedy would simply be injuring others (removing their right to vote), not remedying their injury (their votes not being counted).
The minimum remedy to fix their injury but not injure other would be to allow their votes to be cured and counted.

If the Voters had sued their counties to allow them to cure their votes under an Equal protection argument, they might have had a better chance of success.

Peace, Love and Bilbies.
TrekkieKT
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 26, 2020, 10:30:59 PM
Thank you for summarizing it TrekkieKT.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 26, 2020, 11:45:01 PM
In terms of the Trump Campaign: they don't have standing: they represent his desire to be re-elected. Him NOT being re-elected by the voters of Pennsylvania isn't an injury, it's the result of a political process and hence they have no standing.
Doesn't that contradict Bush v. Gore? More generally, denying the right to seek a remedy in the courts when there's unequal treatment, fraud, or whatever in an election sounds horrific because it would greenlight all kinds of abuses. I see it as equivalent to the exclusion rule. It isn't fair to the victims when you throw out evidence because the cops didn't follow the rules, but if you don't have the rule, then it encourages cops to cheat, which not only throws a spanner in the works of the justice process, but it causes people to lose faith in the system itself. It's a necessary remedy.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: trekkiebob on November 27, 2020, 12:03:20 AM
In terms of the Trump Campaign: they don't have standing: they represent his desire to be re-elected. Him NOT being re-elected by the voters of Pennsylvania isn't an injury, it's the result of a political process and hence they have no standing.
Doesn't that contradict Bush v. Gore? More generally, denying the right to seek a remedy in the courts when there's unequal treatment, fraud, or whatever in an election sounds horrific because it would greenlight all kinds of abuses. I see it as equivalent to the exclusion rule. It isn't fair to the victims when you throw out evidence because the cops didn't follow the rules, but if you don't have the rule, then it encourages cops to cheat, which not only throws a spanner in the works of the justice process, but it causes people to lose faith in the system itself. It's a necessary remedy.

It’s more that the remedy they asked for was out of proportion to their injury.
Getting their vote counted heals their injury.
Denying others (every voter who voted in PA) their vote doesn’t remedy their injury, it just leaves everyone else fucked over.

I’ll read more deeply around why the judge distinguished this case from Bush abs. Gore
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 27, 2020, 01:13:34 AM
It’s more that the remedy they asked for was out of proportion to their injury.
Getting their vote counted heals their injury.
Denying others (every voter who voted in PA) their vote doesn’t remedy their injury, it just leaves everyone else fucked over.
Treating it like a personal injury is the problem, because that's not the heart of the issue. Fundamentally, it's about the integrity of the process. Which is why I likened it to the exclusion principle, which exists not to be fair to one of the parties, but to get rid of a malign incentive that corrupts the system.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: TrekkieKT on November 27, 2020, 01:28:09 AM
Doesn't that contradict Bush v. Gore? More generally, denying the right to seek a remedy in the courts when there's unequal treatment, fraud, or whatever in an election sounds horrific because it would greenlight all kinds of abuses. I see it as equivalent to the exclusion rule. It isn't fair to the victims when you throw out evidence because the cops didn't follow the rules, but if you don't have the rule, then it encourages cops to cheat, which not only throws a spanner in the works of the justice process, but it causes people to lose faith in the system itself. It's a necessary remedy.

Okay, in summary:
The Trump campaign DIDN'T clearly state WHY they have standing to sue, they sort of, kind of, implied it by reference to other cases: associational standing and competitive standing.

Competitive standing they apparently totally fucked up: it apparently only applies when a ballot contains in-eligible candidates (due to issues with lodging paperwork on time, citizenship etc).
No one's claiming the Joe Biden wasn't a legaleligible candidate for President of the United States of America in PA and the judge declined to expand the context that this standing can be claimed in.

Associational standing allows an organization to intervene in a lawsuit if it meets the requirements that:

The Trump Campaign fails on point 1 the members (the voters), are suing the wrong bodies for the wrong remedy and hence have no standing.

It also, more dramatically, fails on point 2.

A previous case found that the Trump campaign "represents only Donald J. Trump and his ‘electoral and political goals’ of reelection."
The interest of the members that it is trying to sue to protect (to have their vote counted via an Equal protection argument) is distinct from the organization's goal (of electing Donald J Trump), even if the voters would have voted for Donald Trump.

As the judge summarizes "To be clear, this Court is not holding that a political campaign can never establish standing to challenge the outcome of an election; rather, it merely finds that in this case, the Trump Campaign has not pled a cognizable theory."

To be clear, I'm not a lawyer but the judge has made an extraordinary effort to make his reasons and reasoning clear and to the point.

Peace, Love and Numbats.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: TrekkieKT on November 27, 2020, 02:04:34 AM
It’s more that the remedy they asked for was out of proportion to their injury.
Getting their vote counted heals their injury.
Denying others (every voter who voted in PA) their vote doesn’t remedy their injury, it just leaves everyone else fucked over.
Treating it like a personal injury is the problem, because that's not the heart of the issue. Fundamentally, it's about the integrity of the process. Which is why I likened it to the exclusion principle, which exists not to be fair to one of the parties, but to get rid of a malign incentive that corrupts the system.

To make sure I'm discussing this in the right context, my understanding of the exclusion principle is that if the police gather evidence illegally, that that evidence cannot to be used against a defendant in a court of law e.g. if the police search my house without a search warrant, immediate probable cause or my permission, they can't use the bloody knife and clothes in a black plastic garbage bag under my bed as evidence that I murdered the nice old lady down the street (actual case from the 90s, I forget the exact details).

In a case where it comes in, the exclusion principle still acts to protect and provide remedy to an individual person injured by another person/organization's actions:
the policelaw enforcement (the organization causing an injury) that violated the suspect's right (the injury) are prevented from using the evidence so acquired in the court case against the suspect (the remedy).

In this case, some counties allowed vote curing while others didn't.
Even if the judge had found that this represented unequal protection under the law (he didn't) and had established a principle that either all counties have to cure votes or none do, what's the remedy to provide protection for this case after the fact?

It's not clear exactly what proportion of votes were cured. 0.1%? 1%? 10%?
Even if you know that number, how do you decide which votes to exclude?
After the fact, there's no way to like an individual ballot to a 'cured' voter due to it being a secret ballot.

Let's assume that 10% of votes were cured and they were all mail-in.

Hence, do you exclude 10% of the total mail-in votes from the total?
Exclude 10% proportionally of the mail in votes received for each candidate.
Then you're injuring 250,000 random voters who might or might not have had their votes cured.

Do you exclude all mail-in votes completely?
Then you're injuring even more people who voted legally.

Declare the election completely void?
Then you've just disenfranchised everyone in PA.
FYI this is what the Trump suit was asking for.

And that's fucking insane in my honest opinion.

Peace, love and wombats

*Edit - the reporting I've seen suggests that there were less than 10,000 ballots invalid mail-in ballots state wide that weren't cured.
That's less than the margin of victory for Biden (c. 80,000 votes).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 27, 2020, 04:18:48 AM
To make sure I'm discussing this in the right context, my understanding of the exclusion principle is that if the police gather evidence illegally, that that evidence cannot to be used against a defendant in a court of law e.g. if the police search my house without a search warrant, immediate probable cause or my permission, they can't use the bloody knife and clothes in a black plastic garbage bag under my bed as evidence that I murdered the nice old lady down the street (actual case from the 90s, I forget the exact details).
I find your discussions interesting, but while I did reference a case and a legal principle, I'm not really coming at this from a legal standpoint, nor am I particularly concerned with the merits of this specific case. Rather, I'm coming at it from a systemic standpoint. If we want to discourage voting fraud, or inequitable treatment, or regulatory overreach, or any of the other situations that have come up since the start of November, then we need something like the exclusionary rule for elections.

The exclusionary rule is fundamentally a ward against systemic corruption. Yes, if cop acts illegally or inappropriately when collecting evidence, and therefore violates the rights of the suspects, there has always been the threat of legal consequences. But, because of their insider role, the incestuous nature of the system and the various special protections that have been put in place, it's rare that anyone is punished. And even when it does happen, it's usually a slap on the wrist, instead of real consequences like prison, losing a job, or severe fines. And even if charges are filed, the standards for conviction in a criminal case are high, which makes success unlikely. Not to mention, criminal, civil, or even regulatory penalties take a while to work through the system, meaning even if there is eventually some semblance of justice, it will be greatly delayed. This creates a very weak incentive for proper behavior, and very little recourse for the victims. It's much better to preemptively discourage such behavior, in the first place.

The reason the exclusionary rule works is because it does not go after the person who might have violated the rules. Nobody's civil rights need need to be protected, no lengthy process is required, and it doesn't require such a high bar for proof. But it provides a strong incentive to follow the rules, because it strips away the reward for cheating. If the evidence was collected inappropriately, it's thrown away. It also encourages professionalism like strong evidence handling rules and clear chains of custody. And from a practical standpoint, there is strong and clear evidence that the exclusion principle works to reduce the frequency of things like planting evidence.

The same principle should apply to fraud, irregularities, impropriety, or other forms of negligence or malfeasance in elections. Going after the perpetrators is hard, which makes it a very weak disincentive. So the only solution is to invalidate suspect ballots. That does mean legitimate votes will be thrown away, but it's necessary to ensure a system that discourages the kind of behavior that's been widely reported in this election.

Disenfranchising voters through no fault of their own should enrage the public, and that rage itself will serve as a powerful check on corruption. But we need to very clear who is at fault. If votes are thrown out, we need to stop blaming the judges or the plaintiffs. They're doing their jobs to help ensure we have fair elections. No, we need to shift the blame to the election officials who engaged in impropriety, or who were insufficiently professional and thus created the perception of impropriety. It's their fault, if votes are thrown out. If Wayne County fucks up, and none of their votes are counted, that creates a powerful incentive for the public to throw the dirtbags out and clean house, so it doesn't happen in the next election.

We need to start throwing away votes. It's the only way to ensure the system is fair.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: trekkiebob on November 27, 2020, 05:09:38 AM
That’s an interesting position.
One I absolutely, fundamentally disagree with.
But one I can understand.

Using the exclusionary principle as an example it has numerous caveats and carve outs.

Let’s suppose that we apply the rule that election issues (fraud, human error etc) means that a county’s or a state’s votes are thrown out.

Is an accusation enough or does there need to be a judicial finding? Even the exclusionary rule needs more than just an accusation here.

Is there a matter of scale or is it an absolute: any issues, all votes get thrown out?

If it’s the later, I know people both left and right who absolutely would concoct a scheme that’s almost impossible to detect, wait till after the election is held and then walk into their local police station and loudly confess to completely invalidate the local city, council or state vote.

The fundamental reason that the exclusionary principle works to discourage systemic issues is that it gets applied on a case by case basis and if a department systematically violates it, they achieve nothing.

Lastly, the real reason that your idea strikes as, frankly, horrible, is that you’re applying collective punishment for what are individual crimes and/or mistakes.

American justice is built, in theory at least, on a basis of individual responsibility and punishment or restitution.

I can think of nothing that would erode societal stability in all areas of the USA quicker than allowing a small number of people by either malice, incompetence or pure human error, to remove the ability of honestly, legally cast votes from Americans of all political stripes to influence their future.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 27, 2020, 05:13:29 AM
Man, those churches and synagogues should have conceded after the lower level courts ruled against them in very unambiguous language on the covid issue. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: trekkiebob on November 27, 2020, 05:31:48 AM
Man, those churches and synagogues should have conceded after the lower level courts ruled against them in very unambiguous language on the covid issue.

There argument that the New York City restrictions were unconstitutional has more basis in American jurisprudence than the case I was discussing above.

Again I’m not a lawyer and that’s just my opinion.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 27, 2020, 05:39:33 AM
Is an accusation enough or does there need to be a judicial finding? Even the exclusionary rule needs more than just an accusation here.
Of course there needs to be judicial finding. That's a bizarre question. A truly bizarre question. Nothing I can think of happens solely on the basis of an accusation. That you're even asking the question suggests you're missing the point, entirely.

Is there a matter of scale or is it an absolute: any issues, all votes get thrown out?

If it’s the later, I know people both left and right who absolutely would concoct a scheme that’s almost impossible to detect, wait till after the election is held and then walk into their local police station and loudly confess to completely invalidate the local city, council or state vote.

The fundamental reason that the exclusionary principle works to discourage systemic issues is that it gets applied on a case by case basis and if a department systematically violates it, they achieve nothing.

Lastly, the real reason that your idea strikes as, frankly, horrible, is that you’re applying collective punishment for what are individual crimes and/or mistakes.

American justice is built, in theory at least, on a basis of individual responsibility and punishment or restitution.

I can think of nothing that would erode societal stability in all areas of the USA quicker than allowing a small number of people by either malice, incompetence or pure human error, to remove the ability of honestly, legally cast votes from Americans of all political stripes to influence their future.
On the matter of scale, that's another bizarre question. There is always going to some degree of judgment involved, and they'd have to set standards. The best solutions will have to be worked out, I'm not familiar enough with the relevant standards to concretely spell out what they should do.

The rest of your post seems to be assuming that imposing standards is an invitation for fraud, and that people are incapable of coming up with reasonable precautions against exploiting the standards. Except it's the opposite that's true: When you don't have standards, and let everyone get away with everything, that's when fraud becomes rampant. Cf. Medicare. The argument that we should just ignore all the problems is, frankly, monstrous, because that means the situation will never get better.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 27, 2020, 02:21:16 PM
Man, those churches and synagogues should have conceded after the lower level courts ruled against them in very unambiguous language on the covid issue.

There argument that the New York City restrictions were unconstitutional has more basis in American jurisprudence than the case I was discussing above.

Again I’m not a lawyer and that’s just my opinion.

The Roe V Wade people should have conceded after the lower level courts ruled against them in very unambiguous language on the abortion issue over and over

The people desiring flag burning as protected speech should have conceded after the lower level courts ruled against them in very unambiguous language on the flag burning issue over and over

The people desiring prayer out of schools should have conceded  after the lower level courts ruled against them in very unambiguous language on the prayer issue over and over

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 27, 2020, 06:31:10 PM
This guy (https://cybersummitusa.com/2017/06/navid-nia/), previously lauded by the NYT and possessing world-class expertise and credentials, states:

(https://i.imgur.com/4vBri39.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 27, 2020, 07:35:18 PM
This guy (https://cybersummitusa.com/2017/06/navid-nia/), previously lauded by the NYT and possessing world-class expertise and credentials, states:

(https://i.imgur.com/4vBri39.png)
Where is the rest of his statement? I'd like to read over the parts that lead him to his conclusion.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Anunnaki on November 27, 2020, 09:25:33 PM
This guy (https://cybersummitusa.com/2017/06/navid-nia/), previously lauded by the NYT and possessing world-class expertise and credentials, states:

(https://i.imgur.com/4vBri39.png)
Where is the rest of his statement? I'd like to read over the parts that lead him to his conclusion.

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mied.350905/gov.uscourts.mied.350905.1.19.pdf
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 27, 2020, 09:49:53 PM
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/Legis/CSM/showMemoPublic.cfm?chamber=H&SPick=20190&cosponId=32628&mobile_choice=suppress

It will be interesting to see what comes of this when it is introduced as a resolution as opposed to a memo stating it will be shortly filed as a resolution.

Apparently some experts don't agree with Mistwell that it's all over and we should just shut up at risk of being reckoned with :(
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 27, 2020, 09:59:50 PM
Third Circuit Court of Appeals Issues Stunning Rebuke of Trump, Written By Trump Appointee (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/federal-appeals-court-issues-stinging-rejection-trump-campaign/story?id=74431333&fbclid=IwAR1Ooq0UiZHQNQfmIf-3Y_-Tewa9HJ2prxhOMinFIdLCJ0mUOlBDSeHU8II)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 28, 2020, 12:22:15 AM
Hope all who celebrated Thanksgiving gave thanks to all their misgivings!  :-P
Here's some new stuff I found on the net the last few days:

Turkey Dayz:
====================================
BWAHAHAHAH!
There is no correlation between this and that:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/joe-biden-gets-1000-viewers-watch-thanksgiving-address-live-got-80-million-votes-hah-complete-joke/

Don't like it? Complaint Dept. is here:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1332317320191074304

InfoDumpz:
====================================
https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1331693159995371522
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-new-lawsuit-filed-state-georgia-trump-legal-team-separate-sidney-powell-affects-thousands-illegal-votes/
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1332317394165968899
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/boom-unsupervised-election-workers-messed-voting-machines-false-claim-water-pipe-break-georgia-sent-people-home-caught-video/
https://t.co/1ziqFq9S6O
https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1332185417257525249
https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1332380180065738754
https://twitter.com/Barnes_Law/status/1332354346307108869
https://twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1331806385420587013
https://twitter.com/MajorPatriot/status/1331983764210245632
https://twitter.com/BLUEPRINT_Q/status/1332233504235663360
====================================
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 28, 2020, 12:32:52 AM
https://www.marklevinshow.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/301/2020/11/Memorandum-Opinion-Filed.pdf
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 28, 2020, 02:03:09 AM
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/Legis/CSM/showMemoPublic.cfm?chamber=H&SPick=20190&cosponId=32628&mobile_choice=suppress

It will be interesting to see what comes of this when it is introduced as a resolution as opposed to a memo stating it will be shortly filed as a resolution.

Apparently some experts don't agree with Mistwell that it's all over and we should just shut up at risk of being reckoned with :(

Probably nothing will come of it; the governor vetoes it if it actually tries to change any law, most likely. Their complaint is that some voters were disenfranchised and their solution is to disenfranchise everybody. But if the results of the 2020 Pennsylvania election are set aside then there are no members of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives as of 11/30 when their terms expire. That could be very entertaining.

The Insurrection Act thing is way more likely than flipping three states with this kind of disreputable shenanigans. The Pennsylvania courts have turned away most of this crap already.

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mied.350905/gov.uscourts.mied.350905.1.19.pdf

He believes that nefarious things were done but didn't directly observe them or evidence of them. He doesn't share the statistical evidence (which jhkim keeps asking for in other similar assertions) that seems to be the sole basis for his opinion. I assume those will be tried in the eventual court hearings.

Interestingly enough, there's a web page about blockchains that has explanations from "Dr. Navid Keshavarz-Nia, SVP of Information Security for Deutsche Bank". Hmm. Reportedly the last bank willing to lend money to Donald Trump, fined in 2017 for money laundering Russian money, and maybe holding a lot of that $400 million of Trump debt that he probably won't be able to pay post-presidency. Hmm. Maybe it's a different Dr. Navid Keshavarz-Nia, maybe it's a long past association, maybe it's just wrong or innocent, but you know that Trumpies would be chanting "Lock him up!" on a lot less - they're accusing Hugo Chavez who died in 2013 of rigging this election.

https://www.marklevinshow.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/301/2020/11/Memorandum-Opinion-Filed.pdf

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court (final arbiter of Pennsylvania state law) has already stayed McCullough's order. It's pretty obvious that complaints about the constitutionality of Act 77 should have been brought in the year between it being passed in 2019 and the November 2020 election. Any lawyers willing to explain laches to us?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 28, 2020, 08:56:45 AM
This guy (https://cybersummitusa.com/2017/06/navid-nia/), previously lauded by the NYT and possessing world-class expertise and credentials, states:

(https://i.imgur.com/4vBri39.png)
Where is the rest of his statement? I'd like to read over the parts that lead him to his conclusion.

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mied.350905/gov.uscourts.mied.350905.1.19.pdf
Thank you for the interesting read. He has a lot of conclusions for how it could have happened but he doesn't have proof it did. Still, it does show some areas that investigators should at least seek to explore (although some of the paths supposedly leave no traces, so...).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 28, 2020, 09:11:28 AM
https://www.marklevinshow.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/301/2020/11/Memorandum-Opinion-Filed.pdf
Interesting... I'd think that there would have been challenges made to Act 77 before accepting any ballots for the election (much less before accepting the results of the election). Waiting until people have already cast their mail-in votes and then deciding it is time to declare it unconstitutional doesn't seem right ("it's a trap").
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 28, 2020, 09:14:13 AM

https://www.marklevinshow.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/301/2020/11/Memorandum-Opinion-Filed.pdf

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court (final arbiter of Pennsylvania state law) has already stayed McCullough's order. It's pretty obvious that complaints about the constitutionality of Act 77 should have been brought in the year between it being passed in 2019 and the November 2020 election. Any lawyers willing to explain laches to us?
OK, that follows. I would like to see a little more on this piece, if you have links.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 28, 2020, 10:56:11 AM
Meanwhile, Pennsylvania state judge orders a halt to certification (https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/11/pennsylvania-state-judge-halts-certification-finds-likelihood-mail-in-balloting-procedures-violate-pa-constitution/).

Womp womp.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 28, 2020, 12:01:13 PM
Milwaukee County presidential recount wraps up with Biden adding to his margin over Trump (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/27/milwaukee-county-recount-wraps-up-biden-adding-his-margin/6428186002/)

This was a hand recount by the way, so no nefarious secret conspiracy plot to use the Dominion machines to throw the election to Biden or anything silly like that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 28, 2020, 12:11:59 PM

Probably nothing will come of it; the governor vetoes it if it actually tries to change any law, most likely. Their complaint is that some voters were disenfranchised and their solution is to disenfranchise everybody. But if the results of the 2020 Pennsylvania election are set aside then there are no members of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives as of 11/30 when their terms expire. That could be very entertaining.

The Insurrection Act thing is way more likely than flipping three states with this kind of disreputable shenanigans. The Pennsylvania courts have turned away most of this crap already.

I don't believe the law requires any changes; their point being that the election wasn't handled according to the law/constitution. 

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mied.350905/gov.uscourts.mied.350905.1.19.pdf

He believes that nefarious things were done but didn't directly observe them or evidence of them. He doesn't share the statistical evidence (which jhkim keeps asking for in other similar assertions) that seems to be the sole basis for his opinion. I assume those will be tried in the eventual court hearings.

Interestingly enough, there's a web page about blockchains that has explanations from "Dr. Navid Keshavarz-Nia, SVP of Information Security for Deutsche Bank". Hmm. Reportedly the last bank willing to lend money to Donald Trump, fined in 2017 for money laundering Russian money, and maybe holding a lot of that $400 million of Trump debt that he probably won't be able to pay post-presidency. Hmm. Maybe it's a different Dr. Navid Keshavarz-Nia, maybe it's a long past association, maybe it's just wrong or innocent, but you know that Trumpies would be chanting "Lock him up!" on a lot less - they're accusing Hugo Chavez who died in 2013 of rigging this election.

It's because you don't understand how rich people make money (including when $400M in debt is unusual and when it is not) that rich people will continue to legally pay less taxes than you do.

https://www.marklevinshow.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/301/2020/11/Memorandum-Opinion-Filed.pdf

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court (final arbiter of Pennsylvania state law) has already stayed McCullough's order. It's pretty obvious that complaints about the constitutionality of Act 77 should have been brought in the year between it being passed in 2019 and the November 2020 election. Any lawyers willing to explain laches to us?

There is no time limit on determining a law is out of constitutional order
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 28, 2020, 12:14:27 PM
This guy (https://cybersummitusa.com/2017/06/navid-nia/), previously lauded by the NYT and possessing world-class expertise and credentials, states:

(https://i.imgur.com/4vBri39.png)
Where is the rest of his statement? I'd like to read over the parts that lead him to his conclusion.

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mied.350905/gov.uscourts.mied.350905.1.19.pdf
Thank you for the interesting read. He has a lot of conclusions for how it could have happened but he doesn't have proof it did. Still, it does show some areas that investigators should at least seek to explore (although some of the paths supposedly leave no traces, so...).

I think many people (in addition to not understanding how rich people make their taxes) don't understand what "proof" is, when it is needed, and the standard behind how judges make their decisions.  No one is on trial for murder here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 28, 2020, 12:21:57 PM
This guy (https://cybersummitusa.com/2017/06/navid-nia/), previously lauded by the NYT and possessing world-class expertise and credentials, states:

(https://i.imgur.com/4vBri39.png)
Where is the rest of his statement? I'd like to read over the parts that lead him to his conclusion.

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mied.350905/gov.uscourts.mied.350905.1.19.pdf
Thank you for the interesting read. He has a lot of conclusions for how it could have happened but he doesn't have proof it did. Still, it does show some areas that investigators should at least seek to explore (although some of the paths supposedly leave no traces, so...).

I think many people (in addition to not understanding how rich people make their taxes) don't understand what "proof" is, when it is needed, and the standard behind how judges make their decisions.  No one is on trial for murder here.
How are you defining "proof" in this instance? There are counter-arguments that the election was entirely clean that can pass the same standards of "proof" as this one. Just because something could have happened does not mean that it happened or that it was even likely to have happened. I am trying to find someone that presents a reasonable theory (as this one did) along with evidence that it did happen, not merely opinions and speculation that it could have happened. If further investigation into these claims provides hard evidence that the actions speculated did occur, then I would view it quite differently.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 28, 2020, 12:27:02 PM
I am defining what could cause a judge to invalidate an election as the same thing that have caused judges to invalidate elections previously - no smoking gun needed, just a lot of circumstantial evidence reasonably pointing towards an unclean election.

There's already election-not-clean redundancy in the constitution.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 28, 2020, 02:15:11 PM
I am defining what could cause a judge to invalidate an election as the same thing that have caused judges to invalidate elections previously - no smoking gun needed, just a lot of circumstantial evidence reasonably pointing towards an unclean election.

There's already election-not-clean redundancy in the constitution.
Consider that we had a lot of circumstantial evidence reasonably pointing towards an unclean President too, or at least his 2016 election, but what was lacking was proof. Let it be investigated, sure, but much as with 2016, you don't stop everything going forward because of suspicion.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 28, 2020, 04:25:14 PM
The dems didn't want to contest the 2016 election for some reason.  Complain to them, not that someone else chooses to contest an election happening after.

https://twitter.com/visionfarm/status/1332151342811340802
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 28, 2020, 05:46:31 PM
Greetings!

BOOM! Very interesting developments!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 28, 2020, 06:01:33 PM
Greetings!

The God Emperor shall return to the throne!

Fucking Democrats are Reeing SALTY TEARS!!!!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 28, 2020, 06:05:13 PM
Greetings!

MORE VICTORY IS COMING!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 28, 2020, 07:10:46 PM
I am defining what could cause a judge to invalidate an election as the same thing that have caused judges to invalidate elections previously - no smoking gun needed, just a lot of circumstantial evidence reasonably pointing towards an unclean election.

There's already election-not-clean redundancy in the constitution.

Do you know of any other elections that were invalidated in court by just circumstantial evidence? The only election overturned in recent decades I know of is the 1998 Miami mayoral election, and that had tons of direct evidence -- I read that there were 60 witnesses who attested to tampering. And that's for an extremely close mayoral contest, where the initial election had a difference of just 155 votes. For a national election by tens or hundreds of thousands of votes, I think the bar is higher.

I agree that the courts should decide about allegations of fraud. I don't know the legal precedent in detail, but I think would that proof is needed.


Outside of that, I think that proof ought to be available. In most cases in other countries of rigged elections, they're rigged by the ruling party, usually by changing the election process. In these cases, the fraud can be deeply embedded -- but even so, regularly other countries can identify whether the elections were rigged or not. Trying to overturn the ruling party is more likely to turn out like Miami 1997.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 28, 2020, 07:47:45 PM
The Paterson NJ election was thrown out before any allegations were proven.

The bar is enough questionable votes to change the outcome.  In this election, that's not very many votes to switch the electoral college results.  The point is not whether you agree Patterson is the same as is happening here; the point is the election was invalidated without a smoking gun-level of "proof".  My response was to Happydaze's objection, which is an objection threshold higher than actually exists. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: trekkiebob on November 28, 2020, 08:19:52 PM
The Pennsylvania Supreme Court has weighed in on the lawsuit about mail in voting constitutionality.

It was dismissed. With prejudice.

There were three opinions.
Two concurring and one that both concurred and dissented.

The concurrence thusly all agreed on was that the plaintiffs should have made their claims before the election and that doing so after the vote went against them would be a violation of the right of Pennsylvania voters who acted with good faith in voting by mail.

The dissenting judge agreed that there might be merit to their claim and that it would need to be reviewed but NOT at the expense of invalidating nearly seven million votes.

SupremeCtofPA (@SupremeCtofPA) Tweeted:
Kelly, M, Hon., et al. v. Cmwlth, et al., Aplts - No. 68 MAP 2020; pco, cs, cs/ds
https://t.co/AJy4SWYjQv
https://t.co/j6Gv2ptDhc
https://t.co/itHEfZiGjd
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 28, 2020, 09:00:13 PM
The dissenting judge agreed that there might be merit to their claim and that it would need to be reviewed but NOT at the expense of invalidating nearly seven million votes.

Four years of "Biden stole the election!" in exchange for four years of "Trump stole the election!"

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 28, 2020, 09:01:31 PM
The Pennsylvania Supreme Court has weighed in on the lawsuit about mail in voting constitutionality.

It was dismissed. With prejudice.

There were three opinions.
Two concurring and one that both concurred and dissented.

The concurrence thusly all agreed on was that the plaintiffs should have made their claims before the election and that doing so after the vote went against them would be a violation of the right of Pennsylvania voters who acted with good faith in voting by mail.

The dissenting judge agreed that there might be merit to their claim and that it would need to be reviewed but NOT at the expense of invalidating nearly seven million votes.

SupremeCtofPA (@SupremeCtofPA) Tweeted:
Kelly, M, Hon., et al. v. Cmwlth, et al., Aplts - No. 68 MAP 2020; pco, cs, cs/ds
https://t.co/AJy4SWYjQv
https://t.co/j6Gv2ptDhc
https://t.co/itHEfZiGjd
So, as usual, SHARK's video clips are outdated and wrong within minutes of posting them. It's almost like he's intentionally spreading disinformation and propaganda. OK, forget the almost.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 28, 2020, 09:08:56 PM
Greetings!

The God Emperor shall return to the throne!

Fucking Democrats are Reeing SALTY TEARS!!!!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

If you were wondering if there would be a point where premature victory laps warranted an apology, this is that point.

Right now, you look like a fool. It's the second time you've done this in the thread. The first time people could forgive. But twice, for the same fucking thing? No, now you need to figure out where you went wrong and how to stop it from happening ever again.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 28, 2020, 09:17:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ymqWbXz.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 28, 2020, 09:19:10 PM
LOL

Jesus. You guys seriously are such suckers! Oh yes, the "expected" the state Supreme Court to unanimously agree they had no case. Uh huh!

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 28, 2020, 09:23:55 PM
Not suckers, just willing to fight for something until its over and possibly even after. 

A mindset a RINO can never understand.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 28, 2020, 09:32:42 PM
Not suckers, just willing to fight for something until its over and possibly even after. 

A mindset a RINO can never understand.

No fighting is not what makes you a sucker. It's you believing that they expected their case to be unanimously thrown out. That is what makes you a sucker. It's believing these YouTube videos as your "evidence" from random dudes making vids for clicks. That is what makes you a sucker.

You can fight. Just stop being such a fool as you fight. Be wiser.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 28, 2020, 10:25:35 PM
It's believing these YouTube videos as your "evidence" from random dudes making vids for clicks. That is what makes you a sucker.
I've been saying this for weeks. Craptastic sources are going to give you crap information. Commentary videos on primary sources are not what you should be linking to; link instead to the primary sources. That way the information is presented raw rather than hyped and bent into idiotic propaganda.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 28, 2020, 10:28:43 PM
Greetings!

The "game" of political football can, and sometimes does, change quickly. That doesn't have anything to do with me.

Beyond that fact, yeah, I don't give up. I won't shut up, or go away. I don't want fucking Marxists to take over America. I don't want our election integrity to be corrupted with fraud. I want righteousness and truth and patriotism to prevail, and I want to see the guilty fucking hang. The Big Tech companies have engaged in fraud, tyranny, and censorship. The MSM is a circle-jerk of corrupt, Marxist-globalists, who are engaged in fraud, deception, and propaganda. The Democrat Party, likewise, are a bunch of jello-minded, Marxist-Globalist slugs. But some morons in this country seem to be derp-derp fucking happy with all that, and want to patronizingly and condescendingly berate the rest of America to sit down, shut up, and pay no attention to the shit-train BS, there's no fraud going on here, move on!

When I can see with my own eyes, and common sense, that from election night to now, there's been a huge cluster-fuck of BS corruption pulled by the Democrats.

Oh, that's right. We are supposed to believe any goddamned thing the MSM or the Democrat Party says? After four years of whining, corruption, lying and fraud from all of these cock-sucking bastards? Impeachment, Ukraine, "Russia! Russia! Russia!", the naked corruption of the FBI and CIA, and on and fucking on. Really?

I don't fucking think so!

The fight must go on, no matter what. The traitors, the Marxists, the fucking RINOS, all of the scum needs to have a reckoning. Make lists indeed! They all need to be on a list for damned sure!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: TrekkieKT on November 28, 2020, 10:38:10 PM
Turner would be proud of some of the antics in this thread.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 28, 2020, 10:53:56 PM
Be wiser.

 ;D

We are mistwell.  We're taking a page from the effective enemy.  We've learned.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on November 28, 2020, 11:20:19 PM
Greetings!

The "game" of political football can, and sometimes does, change quickly. That doesn't have anything to do with me.

Beyond that fact, yeah, I don't give up. I won't shut up, or go away. I don't want fucking Marxists to take over America. I don't want our election integrity to be corrupted with fraud. I want righteousness and truth and patriotism to prevail, and I want to see the guilty fucking hang. The Big Tech companies have engaged in fraud, tyranny, and censorship. The MSM is a circle-jerk of corrupt, Marxist-globalists, who are engaged in fraud, deception, and propaganda. The Democrat Party, likewise, are a bunch of jello-minded, Marxist-Globalist slugs. But some morons in this country seem to be derp-derp fucking happy with all that, and want to patronizingly and condescendingly berate the rest of America to sit down, shut up, and pay no attention to the shit-train BS, there's no fraud going on here, move on!

When I can see with my own eyes, and common sense, that from election night to now, there's been a huge cluster-fuck of BS corruption pulled by the Democrats.

Oh, that's right. We are supposed to believe any goddamned thing the MSM or the Democrat Party says? After four years of whining, corruption, lying and fraud from all of these cock-sucking bastards? Impeachment, Ukraine, "Russia! Russia! Russia!", the naked corruption of the FBI and CIA, and on and fucking on. Really?

I don't fucking think so!

The fight must go on, no matter what. The traitors, the Marxists, the fucking RINOS, all of the scum needs to have a reckoning. Make lists indeed! They all need to be on a list for damned sure!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

When you make an embarrassing fuck up once, we can chalk it up to "he's just passionate about the fight, but he'll be more careful next time."

When you do THE SAME EXACT FUCK UP MERE DAYS LATER, then no it's not about just your passion for the fight. It's about you being reckless, and never considering the even vague possibility that what you're seeing should be questioned if it agreed with your side of the fight.

At this point you know not everyone who agrees with your side of the fight will be accurate. How about you pause, for at least a moment, before jumping on any fucking rando video on YouTube which proclaims victory?

Also, if you're going to support the party of personal responsibility, then take some fucking personal responsibility when you fuck up mang. It's the least you'd hold your political opponents to.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 29, 2020, 02:10:52 AM
Greetings!

I didn't "fuck up" a damn thing at all, Mistwell, not today, nor several days ago. I posted various videos for news of current events, discussion, and entertainment.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 29, 2020, 08:47:35 AM
Greetings!

I didn't "fuck up" a damn thing at all, Mistwell, not today, nor several days ago. I posted various videos for news of current events, discussion, and entertainment.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
It's nice to see you pushing back against the narrative, SHARK.

Sadly, I don't think there's enough momentum to kick over the traces and demand new elections, even though the statistics and circumstantial evidence are so appalling there are probably third world countries snickering at us. We will probably get lucky with Georgia's senate runoffs which will stymie Biden, especially since the Dems managed to lose a shitload of House seats. Pelosi's hanging on by her fingernails there.

If the retard patrol in the House, aka 'The Squad' manages to irritate enough people, the midterms will hit Sleepy Joe and Kamala-Ho in the face like a brick.

But then I've been wrong before. I didn't think Trump could win in 2016, either.

EDIT: For the naysayers, consider this: the Republicans won all 27 'toss up' seats in the House. Flipped thirteen from Dem to GOP. Including House seats in New York and California.

But somehow Biden wins. Sure.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 29, 2020, 10:11:23 AM
The Big Tech companies have engaged in fraud, tyranny, and censorship. The MSM is a circle-jerk of corrupt, Marxist-globalists, who are engaged in fraud, deception, and propaganda.

I can hardly believe just how far the media were willing to go in their support of the left. I seriously think they have blood on their hands, particularly the way they handled the George Floyd riots. First, they make sure that not all the pertinent info about his death is seen. Then they keep fanning the flames with articles like “these other black people also said they could not breathe while interacting with police” no matter the context or consequences (while ignoring white people who died much the same way). And they wonder why people don’t trust them anymore.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 29, 2020, 10:46:20 AM
The Big Tech companies have engaged in fraud, tyranny, and censorship. The MSM is a circle-jerk of corrupt, Marxist-globalists, who are engaged in fraud, deception, and propaganda.

I can hardly believe just how far the media were willing to go in their support of the left. I seriously think they have blood on their hands, particularly the way they handled the George Floyd riots. First, they make sure that not all the pertinent info about his death is seen. Then they keep fanning the flames with articles like “these other black people also said they could not breathe while interacting with police” no matter the context or consequences (while ignoring white people who died much the same way). And they wonder why people don’t trust them anymore.
So-called 'scholars' like to downplay the effects of 'yellow journalism' in the lead up to the Spanish American War, but you know, it sure as hell didn't help to have Hearst saying 'you provide the pictures, and I'll provide the war'. I think that was the media's first taste of becoming not just a 'reporter' of news, but a shaper of it.

And it didn't have to be just 'shaping' a narrative. The New York Times really hates to be reminded that they still retain the Pulitzer that Walter Duranty won -- a Pulitzer which was given for stories which covered up the Holodomor. If someone with a scrap of integrity ever takes over the Times, they should return that Pulitzer and ask for Duranty to be stricken from the rolls.

So yeah, this has been a long time coming, and while the blatant nature of it is kind of surprising, overall it's not much of a surprise at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 29, 2020, 11:30:46 AM
The Big Tech companies have engaged in fraud, tyranny, and censorship. The MSM is a circle-jerk of corrupt, Marxist-globalists, who are engaged in fraud, deception, and propaganda.

I can hardly believe just how far the media were willing to go in their support of the left. I seriously think they have blood on their hands, particularly the way they handled the George Floyd riots. First, they make sure that not all the pertinent info about his death is seen. Then they keep fanning the flames with articles like “these other black people also said they could not breathe while interacting with police” no matter the context or consequences (while ignoring white people who died much the same way). And they wonder why people don’t trust them anymore.
So-called 'scholars' like to downplay the effects of 'yellow journalism' in the lead up to the Spanish American War, but you know, it sure as hell didn't help to have Hearst saying 'you provide the pictures, and I'll provide the war'. I think that was the media's first taste of becoming not just a 'reporter' of news, but a shaper of it.

And it didn't have to be just 'shaping' a narrative. The New York Times really hates to be reminded that they still retain the Pulitzer that Walter Duranty won -- a Pulitzer which was given for stories which covered up the Holodomor. If someone with a scrap of integrity ever takes over the Times, they should return that Pulitzer and ask for Duranty to be stricken from the rolls.

So yeah, this has been a long time coming, and while the blatant nature of it is kind of surprising, overall it's not much of a surprise at all.

True that. Recently though, it's been almost comically obvious (if it wasn't so serious business). As in reporting "mostly peaceful" riots while the reporter is visibly under attack, or buildings are burning behind them. It has almost turned into the western equivalent of the North Korean media, where reporters are told to say the most ridiculous things, partially to test people's loyalty.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on November 29, 2020, 12:57:57 PM
LOL

Jesus. You guys seriously are such suckers! Oh yes, the "expected" the state Supreme Court to unanimously agree they had no case. Uh huh!

I can believe it was expected. Pennsylvania elects their judges, and the Pennsylvania Supreme Court has 5 Democrat Judges and 2 Republicans, with the Republicans dissenting... unanimous in tossing the case out, but arguing that it needs the evidentary hearing, which it should have gotten at the PA SC.

And seeing how 'team jersey' politics has more or less taken over this country, especially from the Dem side (what is the Dem equivilent of the RINO? There isn't one, hasn't been since at least the Party Line vote for Obamacare).

It would be a foolish political strategist to NOT expect the ELECTED judges of PA, 5/2 Democrats (who, it should be noted, would benefit from pro-democrat vote fraud as elected rather than appointed officials) to toss the case out. 

Nevermind that from Nov 4 on, the official line has been to get all of this to SCOTUS, and the state SCs are a necessary stop along the way. Literally no one cares about this ruling, its just handy optics for you, which is why you are crowing so hard about nothing.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on November 29, 2020, 02:19:13 PM
Any American should be frightened by the prospect of judges settings aside the will of the electorate and choosing a preferred candidate. 

The lawsuits to this point have not actually made the case that there is provable fraud, and certainly not on a wide-enough scale to reverse the election.  It was interesting that the recount in Wisconsin widened Biden's league. 

It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that 80 million American's wanted to move away from Trump.  Nor is it surprising that 74 million people SUPPORT Trump (though I'm a little surprised that so many decided to show up to the polls - many of them are not high-propensity voters). 

The fact is, if fraud is alleged, it could go both ways.  The fact of the matter is that Trump did better in some places that people didn't think he would.  But widespread, organized fraud in multiple states (including those with the voting apparatus overseen by Republicans like GA, AZ and PA) seems an outlandish claim. 

Regarding the 2016 election, I don't know any Democrats that thought Trump stole the election.  I think there was a perception that Clinton was guaranteed to win, and I think that just enough people were fooled by that and decided to vote 3rd party or otherwise issue a protest vote that it decided the election in Trump's favor.  Nothing about the result of the 2020 election seems particularly strange or inexplicable to me.  Urban voters voted for Democrats by huge margins; Rural voters voted for Republicans by huge margins; the suburbs were the battleground that everyone expected them to be. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 29, 2020, 03:16:20 PM
Sadly, I don't think there's enough momentum to kick over the traces and demand new elections, even though the statistics and circumstantial evidence are so appalling there are probably third world countries snickering at us. We will probably get lucky with Georgia's senate runoffs which will stymie Biden, especially since the Dems managed to lose a shitload of House seats. Pelosi's hanging on by her fingernails there.

If the retard patrol in the House, aka 'The Squad' manages to irritate enough people, the midterms will hit Sleepy Joe and Kamala-Ho in the face like a brick.

I still haven't seen any sourced breakdown of statistics. Spinachcat referenced Matt Braynard's video in #1288 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1154364/#msg1154364), which was interesting - though he does not claim that Trump won the election. He apparently has a white paper coming out this week.

As for what will happen, I tend to agree with you that the courts will not back Trump, and Biden will become president -- but also that the midterm elections in 2022 will see gains by Republicans. In general, the midterm elections always go poorly for the party controlling the presidency - and in this case, that will likely mean that the Republicans will retake the House.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/republicans-2020-gains-in-the-house-set-them-up-well-for-2022/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 29, 2020, 03:40:35 PM
The dissenting judge agreed that there might be merit to their claim and that it would need to be reviewed but NOT at the expense of invalidating nearly seven million votes.

If you accept the fraudulent votes then you invalidate nearly seven million legitimate votes.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 29, 2020, 03:43:29 PM
Any American should be frightened by the prospect of judges settings aside the will of the electorate and choosing a preferred candidate. 

The founders of the US specifically gave a game plan of what to do if the first stage of voting is not legitimate.

Any American should be frightened by those who do not know their constitution.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Melichor on November 29, 2020, 03:59:53 PM
All Americans should be frightened by those who do not want to adhere to their constitution.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 29, 2020, 05:17:17 PM
Any American should be frightened by the prospect of judges settings aside the will of the electorate and choosing a preferred candidate. 

The lawsuits to this point have not actually made the case that there is provable fraud, and certainly not on a wide-enough scale to reverse the election.  It was interesting that the recount in Wisconsin widened Biden's league. 

It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that 80 million American's wanted to move away from Trump.  Nor is it surprising that 74 million people SUPPORT Trump (though I'm a little surprised that so many decided to show up to the polls - many of them are not high-propensity voters). 

The fact is, if fraud is alleged, it could go both ways.  The fact of the matter is that Trump did better in some places that people didn't think he would.  But widespread, organized fraud in multiple states (including those with the voting apparatus overseen by Republicans like GA, AZ and PA) seems an outlandish claim. 

Regarding the 2016 election, I don't know any Democrats that thought Trump stole the election.  I think there was a perception that Clinton was guaranteed to win, and I think that just enough people were fooled by that and decided to vote 3rd party or otherwise issue a protest vote that it decided the election in Trump's favor.  Nothing about the result of the 2020 election seems particularly strange or inexplicable to me.  Urban voters voted for Democrats by huge margins; Rural voters voted for Republicans by huge margins; the suburbs were the battleground that everyone expected them to be.
Fair enough, but here's the problem: what do you do with the 75-plus million who feel like they've been disenfranchised by chicanery?

I just commented on how the GOP won twenty-seven toss ups in the House, with at least eleven flips from Dem to GOP. A number of those were in New York and California. You have poll watchers getting kicked out of polling and vote counting places, statistically impossible numbers of votes just magically appearing at 4AM, and vote-tabulating software that the Democrats were bitching about years ago (but now it's okay?). There's no way to square this as 'oh, you're imagining things, this is all totally innocent'.

And it's not just 'urban centers voted for Biden'. Biden's votes were bizarrely out of proportion to any kind of attraction he might've generated. If the guy was raking in crowds like Obama or Trump, sure, I could buy it. But he wasn't. Hell, he was outdoing Obama -- a man who while I did not like him, still possessed enough charisma to at least bring in the crowds. Does any of that sound normal?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 29, 2020, 07:32:57 PM
Any American should be frightened by the prospect of judges settings aside the will of the electorate and choosing a preferred candidate. 
Any American should be absolutely terrified at the idea of systemic voting irregularities making their votes worthless, and strongly support judicial review, up to and including throwing out all votes that do not meet a high standard of authenticity. If the results of an election are overturned, then they were false results, and simply can't be allowed to stand. If any voters end up disenfranchised, it's their own fault, because they're the ones who voted for the public officials running the electoral systems. The people are ultimately responsible and accountable for their own franchise.

And any American should laugh when someone appeals to the "will of the electorate" over an election decided by thin margins, or who keeps saying "fraud" when the standard should be provable irregularities like a broken chain of custody or a lack of oversight when processing or counting ballots, not deliberate malfeasance.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 30, 2020, 12:58:08 AM

Probably nothing will come of it; the governor vetoes it if it actually tries to change any law, most likely. Their complaint is that some voters were disenfranchised and their solution is to disenfranchise everybody. But if the results of the 2020 Pennsylvania election are set aside then there are no members of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives as of 11/30 when their terms expire. That could be very entertaining.

The Insurrection Act thing is way more likely than flipping three states with this kind of disreputable shenanigans. The Pennsylvania courts have turned away most of this crap already.

I don't believe the law requires any changes; their point being that the election wasn't handled according to the law/constitution.

That would be for a court, then, not for a legislature, which makes changes to the laws of the state. So far the court rulings are all failing, except for the one about length of time to cure absentee ballots in Pennsylvania (affecting few votes which were never added to any count).

Quote
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mied.350905/gov.uscourts.mied.350905.1.19.pdf

He believes that nefarious things were done but didn't directly observe them or evidence of them. He doesn't share the statistical evidence (which jhkim keeps asking for in other similar assertions) that seems to be the sole basis for his opinion. I assume those will be tried in the eventual court hearings.

Interestingly enough, there's a web page about blockchains that has explanations from "Dr. Navid Keshavarz-Nia, SVP of Information Security for Deutsche Bank". Hmm. Reportedly the last bank willing to lend money to Donald Trump, fined in 2017 for money laundering Russian money, and maybe holding a lot of that $400 million of Trump debt that he probably won't be able to pay post-presidency. Hmm. Maybe it's a different Dr. Navid Keshavarz-Nia, maybe it's a long past association, maybe it's just wrong or innocent, but you know that Trumpies would be chanting "Lock him up!" on a lot less - they're accusing Hugo Chavez who died in 2013 of rigging this election.

It's because you don't understand how rich people make money (including when $400M in debt is unusual and when it is not) that rich people will continue to legally pay less taxes than you do.

Doesn't exactly address the observed connection... I'll leave it to the State of New York (or federal prosecution, if Trump doesn't manage a self-pardon) to prosecute Trump tax violations.

Quote
https://www.marklevinshow.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/301/2020/11/Memorandum-Opinion-Filed.pdf

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court (final arbiter of Pennsylvania state law) has already stayed McCullough's order. It's pretty obvious that complaints about the constitutionality of Act 77 should have been brought in the year between it being passed in 2019 and the November 2020 election. Any lawyers willing to explain laches to us?

There is no time limit on determining a law is out of constitutional order

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court unanimously dismissed it with prejudice, although two justices opined that there is a constitutional issue to consider with respect to future elections. I feel particularly vindicated by this: "Petitioners’ challenge violates the doctrine of laches" from page 2.

https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2020/11/68MAP2020pco-104617959120808426.pdf

I would like to see a little more on this piece, if you have links.

Link above for the main opinion. I may have been incorrect that the original order was stayed when the Supreme Court took it, but they acted speedily and with no uncertainty. (Looks like trekkiebob already posted links but they're broken for me.)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 30, 2020, 01:22:20 AM
Remember HOW TO PLAY THE GAME: When they ask for proof, they always say 'That's NOT proof!', when they ask for statistics, they say 'Anyone can spew out NUMBERS!', when you appeal to their reason, they use emotions - when you appeal using emotions, they switch to reason.
Questions: Why do they hate you? Why do they wish to abuse your children? Why do they wish to MURDER all who oppose them but scream FORGIVE ME when caught??
Answer: Because they are LIARS, CHEATS, THIEVES, MURDERERS, AND ABUSERS. They are merely telling you: THINK LIKE WE TELL YOU, SHUT UP LIKE WE TELL YOU, AND GIVE US WHAT WE WANT - NO MORE TALK, NO MORE COMPROMISE, BECAUSE YOU'RE WEAK! BECAUSE YOU'RE ANIMALS!
Response: Fuck you. You're right - talk is cheap and is over. Enjoy the abuse and death you wished upon others. It is coming, and even though I myself will NOT survive it, I am comforted in knowing that neither will all of you!

GET YOUR INFO HERE:
====================
https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/global-debt-approaching-280-trillion-by-year-end/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-exclusive-thousands-fake-votes-found-wisconsin-recount-dane-county-photos-report-gop-observer/
https://www.theepochtimes.com/new-lawsuit-asks-wisconsin-supreme-court-to-declare-all-drop-box-ballots-illegal-and-block-certification_3596676.html
https://uncoverdc.com/2020/11/28/case-dismissed-analysis-of-decision-in-pennsylvanias-parnell-case/
https://twitter.com/SenMastriano/status/1332398733401591808
https://twitter.com/rising_serpent/status/1332563664029806599
https://twitter.com/MattBraynard/status/1333042159981912067
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/its_in_the_code_hankypanky_in_virginias_votes.html
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-update-judge-timothy-batten-issues-order-freeze-dominion-machines-georgia/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/saturdays-fun-fraud-facts-seven-unexplainable-results-reveal-democrats-didnt-even-try-hide-fraud/
https://twitter.com/SidneyPowell1/status/1332956647921053697
https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1333113548281683977
https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1332552383470112768

BIDEN IS NOT the president elect??
https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1332711089604321286

Huh. Must be some kind of legal thing, eh? Like that pesky thing I once said about voters NOT directly voting for president?... That corporation must be FILLED with children! Maybe it's just best to IGNORE THE FACT CHECKERS NOW, right??  ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 30, 2020, 01:44:19 AM
I am defining what could cause a judge to invalidate an election as the same thing that have caused judges to invalidate elections previously - no smoking gun needed, just a lot of circumstantial evidence reasonably pointing towards an unclean election.

There's already election-not-clean redundancy in the constitution.

Do you know of any other elections that were invalidated in court by just circumstantial evidence? The only election overturned in recent decades I know of is the 1998 Miami mayoral election, and that had tons of direct evidence -- I read that there were 60 witnesses who attested to tampering. And that's for an extremely close mayoral contest, where the initial election had a difference of just 155 votes. For a national election by tens or hundreds of thousands of votes, I think the bar is higher.

I agree that the courts should decide about allegations of fraud. I don't know the legal precedent in detail, but I think would that proof is needed.


Outside of that, I think that proof ought to be available. In most cases in other countries of rigged elections, they're rigged by the ruling party, usually by changing the election process. In these cases, the fraud can be deeply embedded -- but even so, regularly other countries can identify whether the elections were rigged or not. Trying to overturn the ruling party is more likely to turn out like Miami 1997.

North Carolina's 9th Congressional District in 2018 - the election was thrown out by the state elections board because of fraud by Republican operatives; the vote had been a very close victory for the Republican candidate. There was an evidentiary hearing by the election board before they threw out the election and a subsequent trial of several people for the fraud. Technically not a court invalidating an election, but neither an elections board nor a judge is going to throw out an election without significant proof. (At least, the honest ones won't do that.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_North_Carolina%27s_9th_congressional_district_election
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 30, 2020, 01:50:01 AM
Any American should be absolutely terrified at the idea of systemic voting irregularities making their votes worthless

States systematically disenfranchising voters was why our elected representatives enacted and renewed the Voting Rights Act. Pity that activist judges decided to substitute their judgement on the matter.

Looks like Wisconsin will certify its vote tomorrow. As expected in a fair election, the hand recount resulted in only a small shift in votes, and not consistently favoring one candidate in the two counties that were requested to recount (remember, selective recounts were the most evil thing ever when Al Gore requested them in Florida in 2000).

Every day it's like a new win for my preferred candidate, Joseph R. Biden of Delaware! Congratulations again to him as President-elect and to Kamala Harris as Vice-President-elect!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on November 30, 2020, 02:05:09 AM
Any American should be absolutely terrified at the idea of systemic voting irregularities making their votes worthless

States systematically disenfranchising voters was why our elected representatives enacted and renewed the Voting Rights Act. Pity that activist judges decided to substitute their judgement on the matter.

Looks like Wisconsin will certify its vote tomorrow. As expected in a fair election, the hand recount resulted in only a small shift in votes, and not consistently favoring one candidate in the two counties that were requested to recount (remember, selective recounts were the most evil thing ever when Al Gore requested them in Florida in 2000).

Every day it's like a new win for my preferred candidate, Joseph R. Biden of Delaware! Congratulations again to him as President-elect and to Kamala Harris as Vice-President-elect!
Wow, are you going to be fucking pissed when this election gets overturned!
Reminder: Don't Worry. Be Happy. It was a number one jam!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU
https://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Safe-Place-in-Your-Mind
https://thoughtcatalog.com/danielle-holliday/2015/11/27-things-to-do-when-you-are-feeling-suicidal/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 30, 2020, 02:46:20 AM
Remember HOW TO PLAY THE GAME: When they ask for proof, they always say 'That's NOT proof!', when they ask for statistics, they say 'Anyone can spew out NUMBERS!', when you appeal to their reason, they use emotions - when you appeal using emotions, they switch to reason.
Questions: Why do they hate you? Why do they wish to abuse your children? Why do they wish to MURDER all who oppose them but scream FORGIVE ME when caught??
Answer: Because they are LIARS, CHEATS, THIEVES, MURDERERS, AND ABUSERS. They are merely telling you: THINK LIKE WE TELL YOU, SHUT UP LIKE WE TELL YOU, AND GIVE US WHAT WE WANT - NO MORE TALK, NO MORE COMPROMISE, BECAUSE YOU'RE WEAK! BECAUSE YOU'RE ANIMALS!
Response: Fuck you. You're right - talk is cheap and is over. Enjoy the abuse and death you wished upon others. It is coming, and even though I myself will NOT survive it, I am comforted in knowing that neither will all of you!

GET YOUR INFO HERE:
====================
https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/global-debt-approaching-280-trillion-by-year-end/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-exclusive-thousands-fake-votes-found-wisconsin-recount-dane-county-photos-report-gop-observer/
https://www.theepochtimes.com/new-lawsuit-asks-wisconsin-supreme-court-to-declare-all-drop-box-ballots-illegal-and-block-certification_3596676.html
https://uncoverdc.com/2020/11/28/case-dismissed-analysis-of-decision-in-pennsylvanias-parnell-case/
https://twitter.com/SenMastriano/status/1332398733401591808
https://twitter.com/rising_serpent/status/1332563664029806599
https://twitter.com/MattBraynard/status/1333042159981912067
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/its_in_the_code_hankypanky_in_virginias_votes.html
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-update-judge-timothy-batten-issues-order-freeze-dominion-machines-georgia/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/saturdays-fun-fraud-facts-seven-unexplainable-results-reveal-democrats-didnt-even-try-hide-fraud/
https://twitter.com/SidneyPowell1/status/1332956647921053697
https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1333113548281683977
https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1332552383470112768

BIDEN IS NOT the president elect??
https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1332711089604321286

Huh. Must be some kind of legal thing, eh? Like that pesky thing I once said about voters NOT directly voting for president?... That corporation must be FILLED with children! Maybe it's just best to IGNORE THE FACT CHECKERS NOW, right??  ;D

Greetings!

Awesome stuff, Consolcwby! Very good work, sir!

I love how "Politifact"--the Third Party "fact checkers" for Facebook are so busy CENSORING CONSERVATIVES like Candace Owens--but when her lawyers threaten to fuck them in the ass until they are silly they quickly apologize and correct their fucking lying and censorship.

I hope they are fucking strung up and hung. Every fucking executive. All their cock-sucking staff strung out and crushed. Their company bankrupted and all their money and assets seized. Crush them out, and put the fear of God in all of them. Get them at Midnight, and throw them into the fucking truck. Do this over and over again, to every cock-sucking Liberal traitor company. All of these "Fact Checker" companies, the media outlets, the Big Tech companies. Every time they censor someone, every time they fucking open their cunt mouth and lie--they need to get fucking blasted with a flame-thrower. Hammer them relentlessly, so whenever even one of them suggests indulging their swarmy treasonous tactics, everyone around them has a diarrhea attack, turns white as fucking ghosts, and get that deer-in-the-headlights look. Do this relentlessly, every fucking time, and these shitty companies full of traitors and Liberal Marxist scum will fucking die.

Candace Owens is fucking awesome. That girl doesn't fucking play games. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 30, 2020, 03:58:25 AM
Greetings!

H. A.Goodman discusses several public sources of elements of corruption and fraud--including a Democrat Election clerk found guilty of fraud and corruption through unlawfully changing votes on computer systems; cases of stolen systems and memory sticks in Philadelphia; and testimony of a cyber security expert under affidavit.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 30, 2020, 06:07:02 AM
Any American should be absolutely terrified at the idea of systemic voting irregularities making their votes worthless

Fap fap fap

(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/128278928_10223825287610050_1386057875891753133_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1-uQt6GNHM0AX8aA3tv&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&tp=6&oh=e9a6450d16433ba17b55c3f101dcd35b&oe=5FEB2136)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: The Spaniard on November 30, 2020, 07:09:25 AM
Any American should be absolutely terrified at the idea of systemic voting irregularities making their votes worthless

States systematically disenfranchising voters was why our elected representatives enacted and renewed the Voting Rights Act. Pity that activist judges decided to substitute their judgement on the matter.

Looks like Wisconsin will certify its vote tomorrow. As expected in a fair election, the hand recount resulted in only a small shift in votes, and not consistently favoring one candidate in the two counties that were requested to recount (remember, selective recounts were the most evil thing ever when Al Gore requested them in Florida in 2000).

Every day it's like a new win for my preferred candidate, Joseph R. Biden of Delaware! Congratulations again to him as President-elect and to Kamala Harris as Vice-President-elect!
  Still neither President elect, nor Vice President elect no matter how many times you say it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 30, 2020, 08:31:32 AM
I love how "Politifact"--the Third Party "fact checkers" for Facebook are so busy CENSORING CONSERVATIVES like Candace Owens--but when her lawyers threaten to fuck them in the ass until they are silly they quickly apologize and correct their fucking lying and censorship.

I hope they are fucking strung up and hung. Every fucking executive. All their cock-sucking staff strung out and crushed. Their company bankrupted and all their money and assets seized. Crush them out, and put the fear of God in all of them. Get them at Midnight, and throw them into the fucking truck. Do this over and over again, to every cock-sucking Liberal traitor company. All of these "Fact Checker" companies, the media outlets, the Big Tech companies. Every time they censor someone, every time they fucking open their cunt mouth and lie--they need to get fucking blasted with a flame-thrower. Hammer them relentlessly, so whenever even one of them suggests indulging their swarmy treasonous tactics, everyone around them has a diarrhea attack, turns white as fucking ghosts, and get that deer-in-the-headlights look. Do this relentlessly, every fucking time, and these shitty companies full of traitors and Liberal Marxist scum will fucking die.

Candace Owens is fucking awesome. That girl doesn't fucking play games. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
I hate lawfare, but if getting hammered with lawsuit after lawsuit is what it takes to kick some sense into people, then fine.

They did it to themselves. Nobody FORCED them to paint Nicholas Sandmann as anything other than a confused, nervous young adult confronted by a weirdo banging a drum. But thanks to his 'evil smirk', he got smeared as an evil white racist.

How'd that work out for the media again? Four suits still in play (and probably being desperately delayed to avoid discovery), two media organs settled for undisclosed sums so far (and unless Lin Wood is a complete hack, those sums were probably in the eight-figure range).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 30, 2020, 09:29:45 AM
Remember HOW TO PLAY THE GAME: When they ask for proof, they always say 'That's NOT proof!', when they ask for statistics, they say 'Anyone can spew out NUMBERS!', when you appeal to their reason, they use emotions - when you appeal using emotions, they switch to reason.
Questions: Why do they hate you? Why do they wish to abuse your children? Why do they wish to MURDER all who oppose them but scream FORGIVE ME when caught??
Answer: Because they are LIARS, CHEATS, THIEVES, MURDERERS, AND ABUSERS. They are merely telling you: THINK LIKE WE TELL YOU, SHUT UP LIKE WE TELL YOU, AND GIVE US WHAT WE WANT - NO MORE TALK, NO MORE COMPROMISE, BECAUSE YOU'RE WEAK! BECAUSE YOU'RE ANIMALS!
Response: Fuck you. You're right - talk is cheap and is over. Enjoy the abuse and death you wished upon others. It is coming, and even though I myself will NOT survive it, I am comforted in knowing that neither will all of you!

GET YOUR INFO HERE:
====================
https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/global-debt-approaching-280-trillion-by-year-end/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-exclusive-thousands-fake-votes-found-wisconsin-recount-dane-county-photos-report-gop-observer/
https://www.theepochtimes.com/new-lawsuit-asks-wisconsin-supreme-court-to-declare-all-drop-box-ballots-illegal-and-block-certification_3596676.html
https://uncoverdc.com/2020/11/28/case-dismissed-analysis-of-decision-in-pennsylvanias-parnell-case/
https://twitter.com/SenMastriano/status/1332398733401591808
https://twitter.com/rising_serpent/status/1332563664029806599
https://twitter.com/MattBraynard/status/1333042159981912067
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/its_in_the_code_hankypanky_in_virginias_votes.html
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-update-judge-timothy-batten-issues-order-freeze-dominion-machines-georgia/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/saturdays-fun-fraud-facts-seven-unexplainable-results-reveal-democrats-didnt-even-try-hide-fraud/
https://twitter.com/SidneyPowell1/status/1332956647921053697
https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1333113548281683977
https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1332552383470112768

BIDEN IS NOT the president elect??
https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1332711089604321286

Huh. Must be some kind of legal thing, eh? Like that pesky thing I once said about voters NOT directly voting for president?... That corporation must be FILLED with children! Maybe it's just best to IGNORE THE FACT CHECKERS NOW, right??  ;D

Greetings!

Awesome stuff, Consolcwby! Very good work, sir!

I love how "Politifact"--the Third Party "fact checkers" for Facebook are so busy CENSORING CONSERVATIVES like Candace Owens--but when her lawyers threaten to fuck them in the ass until they are silly they quickly apologize and correct their fucking lying and censorship.

I hope they are fucking strung up and hung. Every fucking executive. All their cock-sucking staff strung out and crushed. Their company bankrupted and all their money and assets seized. Crush them out, and put the fear of God in all of them. Get them at Midnight, and throw them into the fucking truck. Do this over and over again, to every cock-sucking Liberal traitor company. All of these "Fact Checker" companies, the media outlets, the Big Tech companies. Every time they censor someone, every time they fucking open their cunt mouth and lie--they need to get fucking blasted with a flame-thrower. Hammer them relentlessly, so whenever even one of them suggests indulging their swarmy treasonous tactics, everyone around them has a diarrhea attack, turns white as fucking ghosts, and get that deer-in-the-headlights look. Do this relentlessly, every fucking time, and these shitty companies full of traitors and Liberal Marxist scum will fucking die.

Candace Owens is fucking awesome. That girl doesn't fucking play games. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
SHARK's full into his Make America Horrible Again bullshit! Nothing says America like inspiring fear, contempt, and hatred. He's even got his own scapegoat group he blames for everything...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 30, 2020, 09:34:33 AM
(http://)

Short explanation: jeff37923 is a liar or stupid (probably both).

Longer explanation: Over 3 million ballots were requested. Unsurprisingly, the false numbers claimed have not been presented to any court; rather, lawyers have repeatedly told judges that they are not alleging fraud. Now, why would lawyers who could be sanctioned and even disbarred for misrepresenting facts to a court not share false numbers that can be so easily debunked? It's a mystery that jeff37923 simply will not or cannot solve.

10/13: https://www.post-gazette.com/local/2020/10/13/Pennsylvania-mail-in-ballot-requests-2-6-million-registered-voters-PA-2020/stories/202010130153

10/19: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/politics/decision-2020/pennsylvania-mail-in-ballot-requests-hit-2-8-million-including-700000-gop-voters/2567670/

A recent fact check; although the numbers falsely claimed vary a little from moron37923's, the facts remain the same: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/28/fact-check-pennsylvania-ballot-claim-mixes-primary-general-election-data/6450032002/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 30, 2020, 09:54:51 AM
Every day it's like a new win for my preferred candidate, Joseph R. Biden of Delaware! Congratulations again to him as President-elect and to Kamala Harris as Vice-President-elect!
  Still neither President elect, nor Vice President elect no matter how many times you say it.

Are you accusing Emily Murphy, Trump-appointed head of the GSA, of violating the law, as she is providing funding to Joe Biden and Kamala Harris that is only authorized for the President elect and Vice President elect? The Presidential Transition Act defines the terms in federal law, and Emily Murphy has (belatedly) ascertained the apparently successful candidates who are therefore President elect and Vice President elect.

I didn't have to say it once for it to be true. It's true no matter how many times you deny it. It's true if nobody says it at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 30, 2020, 12:52:08 PM
Any American should be absolutely terrified at the idea of systemic voting irregularities making their votes worthless

States systematically disenfranchising voters was why our elected representatives enacted and renewed the Voting Rights Act.
Literally has nothing to do with the voting irregularities in the current election.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 30, 2020, 01:59:40 PM
(jeff37923 posts a cartoon claiming "Pennsylvania sent out 1.7 million mail-in ballots, 2.5 million were mailed back in. Explain that")

Longer explanation: Over 3 million ballots were requested. Unsurprisingly, the false numbers claimed have not been presented to any court; rather, lawyers have repeatedly told judges that they are not alleging fraud. Now, why would lawyers who could be sanctioned and even disbarred for misrepresenting facts to a court not share false numbers that can be so easily debunked? It's a mystery that jeff37923 simply will not or cannot solve.

10/13: https://www.post-gazette.com/local/2020/10/13/Pennsylvania-mail-in-ballot-requests-2-6-million-registered-voters-PA-2020/stories/202010130153

10/19: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/politics/decision-2020/pennsylvania-mail-in-ballot-requests-hit-2-8-million-including-700000-gop-voters/2567670/

A recent fact check; although the numbers falsely claimed vary a little from moron37923's, the facts remain the same: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/28/fact-check-pennsylvania-ballot-claim-mixes-primary-general-election-data/6450032002/

I realize that conservatives have a problem with liberal bias in fact checks - but the fact checks generally explain their logic and show their sources, compared to jeff37923's claim which is just a cartoon. I see a lot of claims of over 2.5 million requested ballots. Adding to your earlier October articles above, here's the governor's office just prior to the election:

From the PA governor's office on 10/27:
Quote
“If you haven’t already, voters with mail ballots should immediately hand-deliver your ballot to your county-designated location,” said Gov. Wolf. “Don’t wait until election day. Hand-delivering your own ballot now will give you the peace of mind that your vote will be counted, and your voice will be heard in this historic election.”

More than 3 million Pennsylvanians have applied to vote by mail
Source: https://www.governor.pa.gov/newsroom/pennsylvanians-urged-to-hand-deliver-mail-ballots-immediately/

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Catulle on November 30, 2020, 02:09:48 PM
Remember HOW TO PLAY THE GAME: When they ask for proof, they always say 'That's NOT proof!', when they ask for statistics, they say 'Anyone can spew out NUMBERS!', when you appeal to their reason, they use emotions - when you appeal using emotions, they switch to reason.
Questions: Why do they hate you? Why do they wish to abuse your children? Why do they wish to MURDER all who oppose them but scream FORGIVE ME when caught??
Answer: Because they are LIARS, CHEATS, THIEVES, MURDERERS, AND ABUSERS. They are merely telling you: THINK LIKE WE TELL YOU, SHUT UP LIKE WE TELL YOU, AND GIVE US WHAT WE WANT - NO MORE TALK, NO MORE COMPROMISE, BECAUSE YOU'RE WEAK! BECAUSE YOU'RE ANIMALS!
Response: Fuck you. You're right - talk is cheap and is over. Enjoy the abuse and death you wished upon others. It is coming, and even though I myself will NOT survive it, I am comforted in knowing that neither will all of you!

GET YOUR INFO HERE:
====================
https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/global-debt-approaching-280-trillion-by-year-end/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-exclusive-thousands-fake-votes-found-wisconsin-recount-dane-county-photos-report-gop-observer/
https://www.theepochtimes.com/new-lawsuit-asks-wisconsin-supreme-court-to-declare-all-drop-box-ballots-illegal-and-block-certification_3596676.html
https://uncoverdc.com/2020/11/28/case-dismissed-analysis-of-decision-in-pennsylvanias-parnell-case/
https://twitter.com/SenMastriano/status/1332398733401591808
https://twitter.com/rising_serpent/status/1332563664029806599
https://twitter.com/MattBraynard/status/1333042159981912067
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/its_in_the_code_hankypanky_in_virginias_votes.html
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-update-judge-timothy-batten-issues-order-freeze-dominion-machines-georgia/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/saturdays-fun-fraud-facts-seven-unexplainable-results-reveal-democrats-didnt-even-try-hide-fraud/
https://twitter.com/SidneyPowell1/status/1332956647921053697
https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1333113548281683977
https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1332552383470112768

BIDEN IS NOT the president elect??
https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1332711089604321286

Huh. Must be some kind of legal thing, eh? Like that pesky thing I once said about voters NOT directly voting for president?... That corporation must be FILLED with children! Maybe it's just best to IGNORE THE FACT CHECKERS NOW, right??  ;D

Greetings!

Awesome stuff, Consolcwby! Very good work, sir!

I love how "Politifact"--the Third Party "fact checkers" for Facebook are so busy CENSORING CONSERVATIVES like Candace Owens--but when her lawyers threaten to fuck them in the ass until they are silly they quickly apologize and correct their fucking lying and censorship.

I hope they are fucking strung up and hung. Every fucking executive. All their cock-sucking staff strung out and crushed. Their company bankrupted and all their money and assets seized. Crush them out, and put the fear of God in all of them. Get them at Midnight, and throw them into the fucking truck. Do this over and over again, to every cock-sucking Liberal traitor company. All of these "Fact Checker" companies, the media outlets, the Big Tech companies. Every time they censor someone, every time they fucking open their cunt mouth and lie--they need to get fucking blasted with a flame-thrower. Hammer them relentlessly, so whenever even one of them suggests indulging their swarmy treasonous tactics, everyone around them has a diarrhea attack, turns white as fucking ghosts, and get that deer-in-the-headlights look. Do this relentlessly, every fucking time, and these shitty companies full of traitors and Liberal Marxist scum will fucking die.

Candace Owens is fucking awesome. That girl doesn't fucking play games. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
SHARK's full into his Make America Horrible Again bullshit! Nothing says America like inspiring fear, contempt, and hatred. He's even got his own scapegoat group he blames for everything...

That train's never late.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: The Spaniard on November 30, 2020, 02:14:29 PM
Every day it's like a new win for my preferred candidate, Joseph R. Biden of Delaware! Congratulations again to him as President-elect and to Kamala Harris as Vice-President-elect!
  Still neither President elect, nor Vice President elect no matter how many times you say it.

Are you accusing Emily Murphy, Trump-appointed head of the GSA, of violating the law, as she is providing funding to Joe Biden and Kamala Harris that is only authorized for the President elect and Vice President elect? The Presidential Transition Act defines the terms in federal law, and Emily Murphy has (belatedly) ascertained the apparently successful candidates who are therefore President elect and Vice President elect.

I didn't have to say it once for it to be true. It's true no matter how many times you deny it. It's true if nobody says it at all.
Don't be disingenuous.  Regardless of what the GSA has done, the President has neither conceded, nor have the electors voted yet.  Furthermore, the results are being challenged in several states.  Murphy has proceeded to release federal funds covering things like travel, training, and equipment until Inauguration Day, in case Biden is actually elected. It's no big deal.  It was done for both Bush and Gore in 2000 when that election was contested. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 30, 2020, 02:37:19 PM
Remember HOW TO PLAY THE GAME: When they ask for proof, they always say 'That's NOT proof!', when they ask for statistics, they say 'Anyone can spew out NUMBERS!', when you appeal to their reason, they use emotions - when you appeal using emotions, they switch to reason.
Questions: Why do they hate you? Why do they wish to abuse your children? Why do they wish to MURDER all who oppose them but scream FORGIVE ME when caught??
Answer: Because they are LIARS, CHEATS, THIEVES, MURDERERS, AND ABUSERS. They are merely telling you: THINK LIKE WE TELL YOU, SHUT UP LIKE WE TELL YOU, AND GIVE US WHAT WE WANT - NO MORE TALK, NO MORE COMPROMISE, BECAUSE YOU'RE WEAK! BECAUSE YOU'RE ANIMALS!
Response: Fuck you. You're right - talk is cheap and is over. Enjoy the abuse and death you wished upon others. It is coming, and even though I myself will NOT survive it, I am comforted in knowing that neither will all of you!

GET YOUR INFO HERE:
====================
https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/global-debt-approaching-280-trillion-by-year-end/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-exclusive-thousands-fake-votes-found-wisconsin-recount-dane-county-photos-report-gop-observer/
https://www.theepochtimes.com/new-lawsuit-asks-wisconsin-supreme-court-to-declare-all-drop-box-ballots-illegal-and-block-certification_3596676.html
https://uncoverdc.com/2020/11/28/case-dismissed-analysis-of-decision-in-pennsylvanias-parnell-case/
https://twitter.com/SenMastriano/status/1332398733401591808
https://twitter.com/rising_serpent/status/1332563664029806599
https://twitter.com/MattBraynard/status/1333042159981912067
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/its_in_the_code_hankypanky_in_virginias_votes.html
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-update-judge-timothy-batten-issues-order-freeze-dominion-machines-georgia/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/saturdays-fun-fraud-facts-seven-unexplainable-results-reveal-democrats-didnt-even-try-hide-fraud/
https://twitter.com/SidneyPowell1/status/1332956647921053697
https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1333113548281683977
https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1332552383470112768

BIDEN IS NOT the president elect??
https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1332711089604321286

Huh. Must be some kind of legal thing, eh? Like that pesky thing I once said about voters NOT directly voting for president?... That corporation must be FILLED with children! Maybe it's just best to IGNORE THE FACT CHECKERS NOW, right??  ;D

Greetings!

Awesome stuff, Consolcwby! Very good work, sir!

I love how "Politifact"--the Third Party "fact checkers" for Facebook are so busy CENSORING CONSERVATIVES like Candace Owens--but when her lawyers threaten to fuck them in the ass until they are silly they quickly apologize and correct their fucking lying and censorship.

I hope they are fucking strung up and hung. Every fucking executive. All their cock-sucking staff strung out and crushed. Their company bankrupted and all their money and assets seized. Crush them out, and put the fear of God in all of them. Get them at Midnight, and throw them into the fucking truck. Do this over and over again, to every cock-sucking Liberal traitor company. All of these "Fact Checker" companies, the media outlets, the Big Tech companies. Every time they censor someone, every time they fucking open their cunt mouth and lie--they need to get fucking blasted with a flame-thrower. Hammer them relentlessly, so whenever even one of them suggests indulging their swarmy treasonous tactics, everyone around them has a diarrhea attack, turns white as fucking ghosts, and get that deer-in-the-headlights look. Do this relentlessly, every fucking time, and these shitty companies full of traitors and Liberal Marxist scum will fucking die.

Candace Owens is fucking awesome. That girl doesn't fucking play games. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
SHARK's full into his Make America Horrible Again bullshit! Nothing says America like inspiring fear, contempt, and hatred. He's even got his own scapegoat group he blames for everything...

That train's never late.

Greetings!

You think so?

All aboard!!!! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 30, 2020, 02:58:06 PM
Remember HOW TO PLAY THE GAME: When they ask for proof, they always say 'That's NOT proof!', when they ask for statistics, they say 'Anyone can spew out NUMBERS!', when you appeal to their reason, they use emotions - when you appeal using emotions, they switch to reason.
Questions: Why do they hate you? Why do they wish to abuse your children? Why do they wish to MURDER all who oppose them but scream FORGIVE ME when caught??
Answer: Because they are LIARS, CHEATS, THIEVES, MURDERERS, AND ABUSERS. They are merely telling you: THINK LIKE WE TELL YOU, SHUT UP LIKE WE TELL YOU, AND GIVE US WHAT WE WANT - NO MORE TALK, NO MORE COMPROMISE, BECAUSE YOU'RE WEAK! BECAUSE YOU'RE ANIMALS!
Response: Fuck you. You're right - talk is cheap and is over. Enjoy the abuse and death you wished upon others. It is coming, and even though I myself will NOT survive it, I am comforted in knowing that neither will all of you!

GET YOUR INFO HERE:
====================
https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/global-debt-approaching-280-trillion-by-year-end/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-exclusive-thousands-fake-votes-found-wisconsin-recount-dane-county-photos-report-gop-observer/
https://www.theepochtimes.com/new-lawsuit-asks-wisconsin-supreme-court-to-declare-all-drop-box-ballots-illegal-and-block-certification_3596676.html
https://uncoverdc.com/2020/11/28/case-dismissed-analysis-of-decision-in-pennsylvanias-parnell-case/
https://twitter.com/SenMastriano/status/1332398733401591808
https://twitter.com/rising_serpent/status/1332563664029806599
https://twitter.com/MattBraynard/status/1333042159981912067
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/its_in_the_code_hankypanky_in_virginias_votes.html
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-update-judge-timothy-batten-issues-order-freeze-dominion-machines-georgia/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/saturdays-fun-fraud-facts-seven-unexplainable-results-reveal-democrats-didnt-even-try-hide-fraud/
https://twitter.com/SidneyPowell1/status/1332956647921053697
https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1333113548281683977
https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1332552383470112768

BIDEN IS NOT the president elect??
https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1332711089604321286

Huh. Must be some kind of legal thing, eh? Like that pesky thing I once said about voters NOT directly voting for president?... That corporation must be FILLED with children! Maybe it's just best to IGNORE THE FACT CHECKERS NOW, right??  ;D

Greetings!

Awesome stuff, Consolcwby! Very good work, sir!

I love how "Politifact"--the Third Party "fact checkers" for Facebook are so busy CENSORING CONSERVATIVES like Candace Owens--but when her lawyers threaten to fuck them in the ass until they are silly they quickly apologize and correct their fucking lying and censorship.

I hope they are fucking strung up and hung. Every fucking executive. All their cock-sucking staff strung out and crushed. Their company bankrupted and all their money and assets seized. Crush them out, and put the fear of God in all of them. Get them at Midnight, and throw them into the fucking truck. Do this over and over again, to every cock-sucking Liberal traitor company. All of these "Fact Checker" companies, the media outlets, the Big Tech companies. Every time they censor someone, every time they fucking open their cunt mouth and lie--they need to get fucking blasted with a flame-thrower. Hammer them relentlessly, so whenever even one of them suggests indulging their swarmy treasonous tactics, everyone around them has a diarrhea attack, turns white as fucking ghosts, and get that deer-in-the-headlights look. Do this relentlessly, every fucking time, and these shitty companies full of traitors and Liberal Marxist scum will fucking die.

Candace Owens is fucking awesome. That girl doesn't fucking play games. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
SHARK's full into his Make America Horrible Again bullshit! Nothing says America like inspiring fear, contempt, and hatred. He's even got his own scapegoat group he blames for everything...

Greetings!

Good, TRUE Americans have nothing to fear.

Marxists? Oh yeah. They need to know fear. They know that the dog-food truck is waiting for them. The fucking Marxists need to experience terror. They would soon be on a plane to fucking China, or Venezuela, which is where they belong. Or out in the fucking desert, with the scorpions and snakes.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 30, 2020, 03:59:02 PM
Shark no!

Think about those poor snakes and scorpions.  Do you really want them to suffer from the sjw madness?  Be merciful towards those creatures.

It is better to give those marxist traitors a free helicopter ride.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 30, 2020, 04:07:09 PM
Remember HOW TO PLAY THE GAME: When they ask for proof, they always say 'That's NOT proof!', when they ask for statistics, they say 'Anyone can spew out NUMBERS!', when you appeal to their reason, they use emotions - when you appeal using emotions, they switch to reason.
Questions: Why do they hate you? Why do they wish to abuse your children? Why do they wish to MURDER all who oppose them but scream FORGIVE ME when caught??
Answer: Because they are LIARS, CHEATS, THIEVES, MURDERERS, AND ABUSERS. They are merely telling you: THINK LIKE WE TELL YOU, SHUT UP LIKE WE TELL YOU, AND GIVE US WHAT WE WANT - NO MORE TALK, NO MORE COMPROMISE, BECAUSE YOU'RE WEAK! BECAUSE YOU'RE ANIMALS!
Response: Fuck you. You're right - talk is cheap and is over. Enjoy the abuse and death you wished upon others. It is coming, and even though I myself will NOT survive it, I am comforted in knowing that neither will all of you!

GET YOUR INFO HERE:
====================
https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/global-debt-approaching-280-trillion-by-year-end/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-exclusive-thousands-fake-votes-found-wisconsin-recount-dane-county-photos-report-gop-observer/
https://www.theepochtimes.com/new-lawsuit-asks-wisconsin-supreme-court-to-declare-all-drop-box-ballots-illegal-and-block-certification_3596676.html
https://uncoverdc.com/2020/11/28/case-dismissed-analysis-of-decision-in-pennsylvanias-parnell-case/
https://twitter.com/SenMastriano/status/1332398733401591808
https://twitter.com/rising_serpent/status/1332563664029806599
https://twitter.com/MattBraynard/status/1333042159981912067
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/its_in_the_code_hankypanky_in_virginias_votes.html
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-update-judge-timothy-batten-issues-order-freeze-dominion-machines-georgia/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/saturdays-fun-fraud-facts-seven-unexplainable-results-reveal-democrats-didnt-even-try-hide-fraud/
https://twitter.com/SidneyPowell1/status/1332956647921053697
https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1333113548281683977
https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1332552383470112768

BIDEN IS NOT the president elect??
https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1332711089604321286

Huh. Must be some kind of legal thing, eh? Like that pesky thing I once said about voters NOT directly voting for president?... That corporation must be FILLED with children! Maybe it's just best to IGNORE THE FACT CHECKERS NOW, right??  ;D

Greetings!

Awesome stuff, Consolcwby! Very good work, sir!

I love how "Politifact"--the Third Party "fact checkers" for Facebook are so busy CENSORING CONSERVATIVES like Candace Owens--but when her lawyers threaten to fuck them in the ass until they are silly they quickly apologize and correct their fucking lying and censorship.

I hope they are fucking strung up and hung. Every fucking executive. All their cock-sucking staff strung out and crushed. Their company bankrupted and all their money and assets seized. Crush them out, and put the fear of God in all of them. Get them at Midnight, and throw them into the fucking truck. Do this over and over again, to every cock-sucking Liberal traitor company. All of these "Fact Checker" companies, the media outlets, the Big Tech companies. Every time they censor someone, every time they fucking open their cunt mouth and lie--they need to get fucking blasted with a flame-thrower. Hammer them relentlessly, so whenever even one of them suggests indulging their swarmy treasonous tactics, everyone around them has a diarrhea attack, turns white as fucking ghosts, and get that deer-in-the-headlights look. Do this relentlessly, every fucking time, and these shitty companies full of traitors and Liberal Marxist scum will fucking die.

Candace Owens is fucking awesome. That girl doesn't fucking play games. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
SHARK's full into his Make America Horrible Again bullshit! Nothing says America like inspiring fear, contempt, and hatred. He's even got his own scapegoat group he blames for everything...

Greetings!

Good, TRUE Americans have nothing to fear.

Marxists? Oh yeah. They need to know fear. They know that the dog-food truck is waiting for them. The fucking Marxists need to experience terror. They would soon be on a plane to fucking China, or Venezuela, which is where they belong. Or out in the fucking desert, with the scorpions and snakes.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Go on, SHARK, tell us all about what should be done with the Marxists (and everybody you lump into that category). Do you have concentration camps planned out? Perhaps you have a final solution in mind?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 30, 2020, 04:24:50 PM
Shark no!

Think about those poor snakes and scorpions.  Do you really want them to suffer from the sjw madness?  Be merciful towards those creatures.

It is better to give those marxist traitors a free helicopter ride.

Greetings!

Ok, ok, my friend! You have appealed to my merciful side. The poor Snakes and Scorpions shouldn't be punished by living with the SJW's. ;D

A free helicopter ride indeed! *laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 30, 2020, 04:45:03 PM
Shark no!

Think about those poor snakes and scorpions.  Do you really want them to suffer from the sjw madness?  Be merciful towards those creatures.

It is better to give those marxist traitors a free helicopter ride.
If it posts like alt-right, and memes like alt-right...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 30, 2020, 04:52:40 PM
Fap fap fap

(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/128278928_10223825287610050_1386057875891753133_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1-uQt6GNHM0AX8aA3tv&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&tp=6&oh=e9a6450d16433ba17b55c3f101dcd35b&oe=5FEB2136)

It is very telling how a single political cartoon can make the Usual Suspects lose their shit. If rawma and jhkim were as confident as they claim and not terrified that this election fraud was being found out, then the cartoon would not be causing such a stir.

(https://external-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQBe9OHoj06SjKOI&w=500&h=261&url=https%3A%2F%2Flegalinsurrection.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F11%2F08-New-Day-LI-1080.jpg&cfs=1&sx=0&sy=23&sw=1080&sh=564&ext=jpg&_nc_cb=1&_nc_hash=AQCFnDRUh8yLaDqn)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 30, 2020, 04:56:27 PM
I’ve heard that the 1.8M claim mistakenly used primary ballots out with general election ballots in.  Dunno. 

But social media is abuzz; apparently at the Arizona hearings today an (ex?) US Army colonel, cyber-security guy named Phil Waldron testified that some software named Spiderfoot tracked raw voting data being routed to Frankfurt, Germany
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on November 30, 2020, 04:58:07 PM
Go on, SHARK, tell us all about what should be done with the Marxists (and everybody you lump into that category). Do you have concentration camps planned out? Perhaps you have a final solution in mind?

Wow! Leftists sure do love those concentration camps and final solutions! They advocate for them at every opportunity! Well, that's National Socialists for 'ya! God love 'em!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 30, 2020, 05:01:31 PM
Video from the hearings about the data packet traffic

https://twitter.com/natyliy/status/1333500580287950849?s=21
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 30, 2020, 05:03:16 PM
Go on, SHARK, tell us all about what should be done with the Marxists (and everybody you lump into that category). Do you have concentration camps planned out? Perhaps you have a final solution in mind?

Wow! Leftists sure do love those concentration camps and final solutions! They advocate for them at every opportunity! Well, that's National Socialists for 'ya! God love 'em!
Don't be silly, jeffy, SHARK's already supporting monstrous activities against those that he views as the "other" (he calls them Marxists because that's the popular term in his circles).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 30, 2020, 05:07:10 PM
Greetings!

Get on board the TRUMP TRAIN! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 30, 2020, 05:11:08 PM
Fap fap fap

(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/128278928_10223825287610050_1386057875891753133_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1-uQt6GNHM0AX8aA3tv&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&tp=6&oh=e9a6450d16433ba17b55c3f101dcd35b&oe=5FEB2136)

It is very telling how a single political cartoon can make the Usual Suspects lose their shit. If rawma and jhkim were as confident as they claim and not terrified that this election fraud was being found out, then the cartoon would not be causing such a stir.

(https://external-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQBe9OHoj06SjKOI&w=500&h=261&url=https%3A%2F%2Flegalinsurrection.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F11%2F08-New-Day-LI-1080.jpg&cfs=1&sx=0&sy=23&sw=1080&sh=564&ext=jpg&_nc_cb=1&_nc_hash=AQCFnDRUh8yLaDqn)

Greetings!

Damn, Jeff. So true, huh? These cartoons are fucking righteous. Biden crawling on all fours, wearing all those leashes held by his masters. Meanwhile the Globalist RINOS being smug. Such traitors, all of them brother!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 30, 2020, 05:12:07 PM
Get on board the TRUMP TRAIN! ;D
SHARK and his buddies fucking a stale Cheetos puff; that's a disgusting mental image, but it's less violent than most of SHARK's extremist virtue signaling and REEEEing.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 30, 2020, 05:17:47 PM
I’ve heard that the 1.8M claim mistakenly used primary ballots out with general election ballots in.  Dunno. 

But social media is abuzz; apparently at the Arizona hearings today an (ex?) US Army colonel, cyber-security guy named Phil Waldron testified that some software named Spiderfoot tracked raw voting data being routed to Frankfurt, Germany

Greetings!

Interesting hearing more about servers in Germany. I have heard there was some kind of shootout between special forces and CIA operatives defending the site in Germany. Evidently, 5 Special Forces members were killed, and 1 CIA operative was killed, but the servers and computers were seized by Special Forces. These servers evidently processed American votes funneled to them from America, whereupon they could have been potentially tampered with and corrupted by such foreign agents working against America--and in league with Deep State American traitors, who were working closely with them to subvert our election.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Catulle on November 30, 2020, 05:22:50 PM
I’ve heard that the 1.8M claim mistakenly used primary ballots out with general election ballots in.  Dunno. 

But social media is abuzz; apparently at the Arizona hearings today an (ex?) US Army colonel, cyber-security guy named Phil Waldron testified that some software named Spiderfoot tracked raw voting data being routed to Frankfurt, Germany

Greetings!

Interesting hearing more about servers in Germany. I have heard there was some kind of shootout between special forces and CIA operatives defending the site in Germany. Evidently, 5 Special Forces members were killed, and 1 CIA operative was killed, but the servers and computers were seized by Special Forces. These servers evidently processed American votes funneled to them from America, whereupon they could have been potentially tampered with and corrupted by such foreign agents working against America--and in league with Deep State American traitors, who were working closely with them to subvert our election.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

...and I saw one of the babies and the baby looked at me.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 30, 2020, 05:37:28 PM
I’ve heard that the 1.8M claim mistakenly used primary ballots out with general election ballots in.  Dunno. 

But social media is abuzz; apparently at the Arizona hearings today an (ex?) US Army colonel, cyber-security guy named Phil Waldron testified that some software named Spiderfoot tracked raw voting data being routed to Frankfurt, Germany

Greetings!

Interesting hearing more about servers in Germany. I have heard there was some kind of shootout between special forces and CIA operatives defending the site in Germany. Evidently, 5 Special Forces members were killed, and 1 CIA operative was killed, but the servers and computers were seized by Special Forces. These servers evidently processed American votes funneled to them from America, whereupon they could have been potentially tampered with and corrupted by such foreign agents working against America--and in league with Deep State American traitors, who were working closely with them to subvert our election.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

...and I saw one of the babies and the baby looked at me.

Greetings!

Whateva! I don't know much about what went down in Germany. Who knows? I suppose if anything did really occur, whatever will eventually come out.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 30, 2020, 06:07:09 PM
I’ve heard that the 1.8M claim mistakenly used primary ballots out with general election ballots in.  Dunno. 

But social media is abuzz; apparently at the Arizona hearings today an (ex?) US Army colonel, cyber-security guy named Phil Waldron testified that some software named Spiderfoot tracked raw voting data being routed to Frankfurt, Germany

Greetings!

Interesting hearing more about servers in Germany. I have heard there was some kind of shootout between special forces and CIA operatives defending the site in Germany. Evidently, 5 Special Forces members were killed, and 1 CIA operative was killed, but the servers and computers were seized by Special Forces. These servers evidently processed American votes funneled to them from America, whereupon they could have been potentially tampered with and corrupted by such foreign agents working against America--and in league with Deep State American traitors, who were working closely with them to subvert our election.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

...and I saw one of the babies and the baby looked at me.

Greetings!

Whateva! I don't know much about what went down in Germany. Who knows? I suppose if anything did really occur, whatever will eventually come out.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You "don't know much" but you're quite happy to put your unsupported conspiracy theory bullshit out there, because any repetition of your crazy-ass shit is good in your eyes. Fucking pathetic.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 30, 2020, 06:32:47 PM
Go on, SHARK, tell us all about what should be done with the Marxists (and everybody you lump into that category). Do you have concentration camps planned out? Perhaps you have a final solution in mind?

Wow! Leftists sure do love those concentration camps and final solutions! They advocate for them at every opportunity! Well, that's National Socialists for 'ya! God love 'em!
Don't be silly, jeffy, SHARK's already supporting monstrous activities against those that he views as the "other" (he calls them Marxists because that's the popular term in his circles).

Greetings!

SO MONSTROUS! OH NOES! REEEE!!!! REEE!

*Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 30, 2020, 06:43:51 PM
I’ve heard that the 1.8M claim mistakenly used primary ballots out with general election ballots in.  Dunno. 

But social media is abuzz; apparently at the Arizona hearings today an (ex?) US Army colonel, cyber-security guy named Phil Waldron testified that some software named Spiderfoot tracked raw voting data being routed to Frankfurt, Germany

Greetings!

Interesting hearing more about servers in Germany. I have heard there was some kind of shootout between special forces and CIA operatives defending the site in Germany. Evidently, 5 Special Forces members were killed, and 1 CIA operative was killed, but the servers and computers were seized by Special Forces. These servers evidently processed American votes funneled to them from America, whereupon they could have been potentially tampered with and corrupted by such foreign agents working against America--and in league with Deep State American traitors, who were working closely with them to subvert our election.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

...and I saw one of the babies and the baby looked at me.

Greetings!

Whateva! I don't know much about what went down in Germany. Who knows? I suppose if anything did really occur, whatever will eventually come out.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You "don't know much" but you're quite happy to put your unsupported conspiracy theory bullshit out there, because any repetition of your crazy-ass shit is good in your eyes. Fucking pathetic.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Well, it is what more and more people are talking about! I've heard about cases in Georgia referencing something happening with servers in Germany--and now also in Arizona. So, it is being talked about by lawyers and officials and such.

My barber down the street was talking about it too. Yesterday I was enjoying an omelet for breakfast with some coffee, and one of the girls at the restaurant pouring my coffee said she had heard about servers being seized in Germany, and how Dominion is a foreign corporation that has been engaged in fraud and subverting our elections.

Whaa! Reee some more. I mention it because it is news being discussed by many different people.

Conspiracy theories? Oh please. That's what the cock-sucking Democrats have been serving you every day for the last four years. You should be used to the flavour by now! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 30, 2020, 06:49:54 PM
Government and legacy media only reports truth, and reports all the truth.

The purpose of social media was for us to discuss amongst ourselves what was first reported by the government and legacy media; information we can trust.

This is what separates us from autocratic societies
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 30, 2020, 07:09:40 PM
Greetings!

Lieutenant-General Thomas McInerny explains in an interview that a raid by US Special Forces against a CIA server farm did happen. Foreign interference has occured, and those engaged against our forces are guilty of treason.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 30, 2020, 07:27:40 PM
Greetings!

More discussion of testimony of voting fraud by the fucking Democrats in Arizona!

An Army Colonel and expert in cyber warfare is seen testifying, and more discoveries by political officials in a hearing held in Arizona.

All the fucking Grima Wormtongues are of course going to REEE! that this is all a conspiracy theory, and there's nothing to see here. RIGHT. Keep chewing on that.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 30, 2020, 07:43:10 PM
Government and legacy media only reports truth, and reports all the truth.

The purpose of social media was for us to discuss amongst ourselves what was first reported by the government and legacy media; information we can trust.

This is what separates us from autocratic societies

I'm not understanding this. According to this, before the rise of social media, the U.S. was an autocratic society. Seriously? And only because of the rise of social media, we have become free? That seems nonsensical to me.

This country has a fine tradition of free speech - stronger than that in almost any other country in the world. It is a travesty to suggest that Facebook and Twitter have somehow saved all of us from autocracy. People can and did publish their own direct accounts of the truth long before social media. Anyone can print and distribute their version of the truth.

What social media has done isn't *allowed* communication. It's just made communication stupider, by putting it into ever-faster streams of "likes" and short-attention-span snippets that pushes people's emotional buttons with every-refining accuracy.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 30, 2020, 09:01:11 PM
Don't know if it'll go anywhere, but the FBI has apparently requested files from the Voter Integrity Project, which has been collecting affidavits and doing statistical analysis in multiple states.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/new-fbi-requests-files-of-people-voting-in-multiple-states

In the "your vote still doesn't matter" category, Iowa certified the results of the US House race in their 2nd second Congressional District, giving the race to the Republican by a total of 6 votes. Yes, one two three four five six votes. 196,964 to 196,958 is 50.00076% to 49.99924%. It's the closest Congressional race in decades.
https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2020-11-30/iowa-board-to-certify-6-vote-republican-win-in-us-house-race
Incidentally, love her name: Mariannette Miller-Meeks.

Brief summary of why the NYT's feed of election results from Pennsylvania makes no sense.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/data-expert-vote-tabulation-feeds-pa-ga-show-anomalies-would-mean-trump
Also some interesting interesting discussion of Dominion's process, based on their training videos. To tabulate votes, operators have to do things like go to a shared drive and select all the files to be included -- which if you have any background in data entry, workflow, or IT in general, should make your hackles rise. That much manual intervention is just asking for errors.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on November 30, 2020, 09:48:19 PM
A quick Google search shows that SHARK'S source, former 3-star general Thomas McInerney, is as much of a deranged fucktard as he is. (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/retired-three-star-lieutenant-general-backs-birther-army-doctor)


Let's start with the fact that he's a dedicated white supremacist who was so convinced that Obama wasn't "really" President on the grounds that -SURPRISE!- he wasn't a natural-born American, that he encouraged a US Army officer to go AWOL. This was part of some retarded scheme to subpoena Obama's birth certificate. The Army had no patience for this kind of bullfuckery, and Lt Colonel Terry Lakin was convicted, sentenced to prison and dishonorably discharged. Nice going, eh?

Then he got himself booted permanently from FOX News for claiming that John McCain squealed on fellow prisoners in Vietnam.

He reminds me of Major General Edwin Walker, another white supremacist jack-off who tried to incite men in uniform to disobey lawful orders on the grounds that the current commander-in-chief was a commie who was too friendly to the "coloreds" and a Catholic to boot. I figure it's only a matter of time before McInerney, like Walker, gets arrested trying to sodomize an undercover police officer in a public restroom. Twice.

The fact that a moron like Thomas McInerney was able to get three stars ***  on his uniform goes a long way to explain why this country has lost almost every war since 1945.





Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 30, 2020, 09:54:21 PM
In the "your vote still doesn't matter" category, Iowa certified the results of the US House race in their 2nd second Congressional District, giving the race to the Republican by a total of 6 votes. Yes, one two three four five six votes. 196,964 to 196,958 is 50.00076% to 49.99924%. It's the closest Congressional race in decades.
https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2020-11-30/iowa-board-to-certify-6-vote-republican-win-in-us-house-race
Incidentally, love her name: Mariannette Miller-Meeks.

I hope they recounted that one twice. Six votes? Jeez...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on November 30, 2020, 10:18:31 PM
In the "your vote still doesn't matter" category, Iowa certified the results of the US House race in their 2nd second Congressional District, giving the race to the Republican by a total of 6 votes. Yes, one two three four five six votes. 196,964 to 196,958 is 50.00076% to 49.99924%. It's the closest Congressional race in decades.
https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2020-11-30/iowa-board-to-certify-6-vote-republican-win-in-us-house-race
Incidentally, love her name: Mariannette Miller-Meeks.

I hope they recounted that one twice. Six votes? Jeez...
It was a recount. Her lead was initially... drumroll... 47 votes.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 30, 2020, 10:44:06 PM
Government and legacy media only reports truth, and reports all the truth.

The purpose of social media was for us to discuss amongst ourselves what was first reported by the government and legacy media; information we can trust.

This is what separates us from autocratic societies

I'm not understanding this. According to this, before the rise of social media, the U.S. was an autocratic society.

Your believe that BSM (Before Social Media) was an era of only legacy media and government information being consumed and discussed is unsurprising. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 30, 2020, 10:48:08 PM
Every day it's like a new win for my preferred candidate, Joseph R. Biden of Delaware! Congratulations again to him as President-elect and to Kamala Harris as Vice-President-elect!
  Still neither President elect, nor Vice President elect no matter how many times you say it.

Are you accusing Emily Murphy, Trump-appointed head of the GSA, of violating the law, as she is providing funding to Joe Biden and Kamala Harris that is only authorized for the President elect and Vice President elect? The Presidential Transition Act defines the terms in federal law, and Emily Murphy has (belatedly) ascertained the apparently successful candidates who are therefore President elect and Vice President elect.

I didn't have to say it once for it to be true. It's true no matter how many times you deny it. It's true if nobody says it at all.
Don't be disingenuous.

I am not being disingenuous. The terms "President elect" and "Vice President elect" are defined in federal law, and we know that the conditions for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris to claim those titles have been met. QED.

Quote
Regardless of what the GSA has done, the President has neither conceded, nor have the electors voted yet.  Furthermore, the results are being challenged in several states.  Murphy has proceeded to release federal funds covering things like travel, training, and equipment until Inauguration Day, in case Biden is actually elected. It's no big deal.  It was done for both Bush and Gore in 2000 when that election was contested.

No, the law does not permit the GSA to give anyone that money except if the head of the GSA ascertains that they are the President elect and Vice President elect.

You can certainly spend the next four years denying that Biden is your president, and I expect many like you will (seen that since Clinton, on both sides, even with the rather decisive landslide victory of Obama). But who the President is, is determined by law; who the President elect is, is also determined by law. It's Joe Biden.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on November 30, 2020, 10:59:16 PM
A quick Google search shows that SHARK'S source, former 3-star general Thomas McInerney, is as much of a deranged fucktard as he is. (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/retired-three-star-lieutenant-general-backs-birther-army-doctor)


Let's start with the fact that he's a dedicated white supremacist who was so convinced that Obama wasn't "really" President on the grounds that -SURPRISE!- he wasn't a natural-born American, that he encouraged a US Army officer to go AWOL. This was part of some retarded scheme to subpoena Obama's birth certificate. The Army had no patience for this kind of bullfuckery, and Lt Colonel Terry Lakin was convicted, sentenced to prison and dishonorably discharged. Nice going, eh?

Then he got himself booted permanently from FOX News for claiming that John McCain squealed on fellow prisoners in Vietnam.

He reminds me of Major General Edwin Walker, another white supremacist jack-off who tried to incite men in uniform to disobey lawful orders on the grounds that the current commander-in-chief was a commie who was too friendly to the "coloreds" and a Catholic to boot. I figure it's only a matter of time before McInerney, like Walker, gets arrested trying to sodomize an undercover police officer in a public restroom. Twice.

The fact that a moron like Thomas McInerney was able to get three stars ***  on his uniform goes a long way to explain why this country has lost almost every war since 1945.

Greetings!

Deranged fucktard? Really, Elfdart? Go fuck yourself, moron. You just love going to bat for fucking Marxists.

Lieutenant General McInerney is a white supremacist? Oh yeah. Now I know you are getting on your knees so some Marxist can fuck you in the ass! Cock-sucking pussy Liberals like you love calling everyone and anyone a "Hu White Supremacist!!!" Oh, REEEE!

Shut the fuck up, jackass.

From the Blaze Video, as they discuss the Media station's interview with Lieutenant General McInerney, the general discusses the event which occurred in Germany. I would expect a Lieutenant General might have some relevant contacts and information on such developments.

I am open minded, and await to see more information. Regardless of your flaccid opinion of Lieutenant General McInerney, the Blaze network provides interesting discussion, which is why I posted the video of the discussion, jackass.

You though, being a Marxist cunt full of jello, well, we all know you just suck down whatever BS the MSM serves up, with absolute certainty.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on November 30, 2020, 11:04:06 PM
I am not being disingenuous. The terms "President elect" and "Vice President elect" are defined in federal law, and we know that the conditions for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris to claim those titles have been met. QED.

Has the Electoral College voted already?

No, then how can QED?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on November 30, 2020, 11:05:57 PM
A quick Google search shows that SHARK'S source, former 3-star general Thomas McInerney, is as much of a deranged fucktard as he is. (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/retired-three-star-lieutenant-general-backs-birther-army-doctor)


Let's start with the fact that he's a dedicated white supremacist who was so convinced that Obama wasn't "really" President on the grounds that -SURPRISE!- he wasn't a natural-born American, that he encouraged a US Army officer to go AWOL. This was part of some retarded scheme to subpoena Obama's birth certificate. The Army had no patience for this kind of bullfuckery, and Lt Colonel Terry Lakin was convicted, sentenced to prison and dishonorably discharged. Nice going, eh?

Then he got himself booted permanently from FOX News for claiming that John McCain squealed on fellow prisoners in Vietnam.

He reminds me of Major General Edwin Walker, another white supremacist jack-off who tried to incite men in uniform to disobey lawful orders on the grounds that the current commander-in-chief was a commie who was too friendly to the "coloreds" and a Catholic to boot. I figure it's only a matter of time before McInerney, like Walker, gets arrested trying to sodomize an undercover police officer in a public restroom. Twice.

The fact that a moron like Thomas McInerney was able to get three stars ***  on his uniform goes a long way to explain why this country has lost almost every war since 1945.

Greetings!

Deranged fucktard? Really, Elfdart? Go fuck yourself, moron. You just love going to bat for fucking Marxists.

Lieutenant General McInerney is a white supremacist? Oh yeah. Now I know you are getting on your knees so some Marxist can fuck you in the ass! Cock-sucking pussy Liberals like you love calling everyone and anyone a "Hu White Supremacist!!!" Oh, REEEE!

Shut the fuck up, jackass.

From the Blaze Video, as they discuss the Media station's interview with Lieutenant General McInerney, the general discusses the event which occurred in Germany. I would expect a Lieutenant General might have some relevant contacts and information on such developments.

I am open minded, and await to see more information. Regardless of your flaccid opinion of Lieutenant General McInerney, the Blaze network provides interesting discussion, which is why I posted the video of the discussion, jackass.

You though, being a Marxist cunt full of jello, well, we all know you just suck down whatever BS the MSM serves up, with absolute certainty.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You're the one putting up unsubstantiated click-bait, you dumbass. You try to claim that you're open-minded, but that's a fucking lie. You just fucking hate America and want to cause more strife.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on November 30, 2020, 11:31:06 PM
Thread is going to shit. Folks, calm down, and have a laugh at our First World problems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08jZNIjbVAE
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 30, 2020, 11:34:15 PM
Government and legacy media only reports truth, and reports all the truth.

The purpose of social media was for us to discuss amongst ourselves what was first reported by the government and legacy media; information we can trust.

This is what separates us from autocratic societies

I'm not understanding this. According to this, before the rise of social media, the U.S. was an autocratic society.

Your believe that BSM (Before Social Media) was an era of only legacy media and government information being consumed and discussed is unsurprising.

Huh? My whole point was about how we have a great history of free speech here in the U.S. -- how we have never been limited by only select sources. I was contrasting with your claim that seemed to be elevating social media as a contrast to what came before.

I would say that none of social media, government media, or legacy media is inherently "information we can trust".

It seemed to me that you were talking up social media as a positive force that contrasted with autocratic societies. I have a negative view of social media -- and I felt that the BSM (Before Social Media) age had better alternatives.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 30, 2020, 11:39:32 PM
I am not being disingenuous. The terms "President elect" and "Vice President elect" are defined in federal law, and we know that the conditions for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris to claim those titles have been met. QED.

Has the Electoral College voted already?

No, then how can QED?

Yeah, I'm curious how Rawma is coming to that conclusion.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on November 30, 2020, 11:43:18 PM
Quote
Huh? My whole point was about how we have a great history of free speech here in the U.S. -- how we have never been limited by only select sources. I was contrasting with your claim that seemed to be elevating social media as a contrast to what came before.

I would say that none of social media, government media, or legacy media is inherently "information we can trust".

It seemed to me that you were talking up social media as a positive force that contrasted with autocratic societies. I have a negative view of social media -- and I felt that the BSM (Before Social Media) age had better alternatives.

This is why some people don't get the Babylon Bee
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on November 30, 2020, 11:44:01 PM
It is very telling how a single political cartoon can make the Usual Suspects lose their shit. If rawma and jhkim were as confident as they claim and not terrified that this election fraud was being found out, then the cartoon would not be causing such a stir.

I've corrected lots of disinformation in this thread; jhkim has probably done more of that, as I'm not going to spend my time watching a lengthy video or reading the Kraken filings. But if I can find the fact checks in a brief search, or just link to the court's dismissal of another frivolous lawsuit, then I'm all in.

Maybe you should find a political cartoon that isn't based on something that is completely false and so easy to disprove.

I am not being disingenuous. The terms "President elect" and "Vice President elect" are defined in federal law, and we know that the conditions for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris to claim those titles have been met. QED.

Has the Electoral College voted already?

No, then how can QED?

Here's an example of an easy correction.

Presidential Transition Act: https://www.gsa.gov/cdnstatic/Presidential_Act_of_1963.pdf
(definition of President-elect and Vice-President-elect in section 3, paragraph c.)

Letter of ascertainment from the head of the GSA: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/gop-senator-business-leaders-urge-prompt-biden-transition/2020/11/23/1ab6cbae-2dc7-11eb-9dd6-2d0179981719_story.html
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on November 30, 2020, 11:56:26 PM
Quote
Huh? My whole point was about how we have a great history of free speech here in the U.S. -- how we have never been limited by only select sources. I was contrasting with your claim that seemed to be elevating social media as a contrast to what came before.

I would say that none of social media, government media, or legacy media is inherently "information we can trust".

It seemed to me that you were talking up social media as a positive force that contrasted with autocratic societies. I have a negative view of social media -- and I felt that the BSM (Before Social Media) age had better alternatives.

This is why some people don't get the Babylon Bee

Dude. Sorry if that was just a joke. With all the extreme claims being posted here, I have a hard time distinguishing what are actual claims versus hyperbole versus sarcasm. Nothing personal at you.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 01, 2020, 12:00:45 AM
A quick Google search shows that SHARK'S source, former 3-star general Thomas McInerney, is as much of a deranged fucktard as he is. (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/retired-three-star-lieutenant-general-backs-birther-army-doctor)


Let's start with the fact that he's a dedicated white supremacist who was so convinced that Obama wasn't "really" President on the grounds that -SURPRISE!- he wasn't a natural-born American, that he encouraged a US Army officer to go AWOL. This was part of some retarded scheme to subpoena Obama's birth certificate. The Army had no patience for this kind of bullfuckery, and Lt Colonel Terry Lakin was convicted, sentenced to prison and dishonorably discharged. Nice going, eh?

Then he got himself booted permanently from FOX News for claiming that John McCain squealed on fellow prisoners in Vietnam.

He reminds me of Major General Edwin Walker, another white supremacist jack-off who tried to incite men in uniform to disobey lawful orders on the grounds that the current commander-in-chief was a commie who was too friendly to the "coloreds" and a Catholic to boot. I figure it's only a matter of time before McInerney, like Walker, gets arrested trying to sodomize an undercover police officer in a public restroom. Twice.

The fact that a moron like Thomas McInerney was able to get three stars ***  on his uniform goes a long way to explain why this country has lost almost every war since 1945.

Greetings!

Deranged fucktard? Really, Elfdart? Go fuck yourself, moron. You just love going to bat for fucking Marxists.

Lieutenant General McInerney is a white supremacist? Oh yeah. Now I know you are getting on your knees so some Marxist can fuck you in the ass! Cock-sucking pussy Liberals like you love calling everyone and anyone a "Hu White Supremacist!!!" Oh, REEEE!

Shut the fuck up, jackass.

From the Blaze Video, as they discuss the Media station's interview with Lieutenant General McInerney, the general discusses the event which occurred in Germany. I would expect a Lieutenant General might have some relevant contacts and information on such developments.

I am open minded, and await to see more information. Regardless of your flaccid opinion of Lieutenant General McInerney, the Blaze network provides interesting discussion, which is why I posted the video of the discussion, jackass.

You though, being a Marxist cunt full of jello, well, we all know you just suck down whatever BS the MSM serves up, with absolute certainty.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You're the one putting up unsubstantiated click-bait, you dumbass. You try to claim that you're open-minded, but that's a fucking lie. You just fucking hate America and want to cause more strife.

Greetings!

"unsubstantiated clickbait"? No, I haven't, moron. EOTB first alluded to the information in his post, referencing an Army Colonel as I recall; I've heard ordinary citizens bring the topic up; then, just earlier today I saw the video put up on the Blaze. The Blaze is open minded, somewhat skeptical, and they discussed the interview that I believe was a TV channel WE something or other that apparently interviewed Lieutenant General McInerney--further adding more sources to what I and EOTB had brought up. I haven't heard many details about this, and further comented from what EOTB has posted, for the purposes of speculation and discussion.

You don't like it? Fucking choke on it. I love America, and I am not "causing more strife". Did you actually watch the fucking video, jackass?

Fucking morons.

WATCH THE FUCKING VIDEO AND LISTEN TO THE DISCUSSION!

Geesus some of you are fucking full of sand. I posted the video as examples of more people talking about this, for discussion here. I already said I don't know much about the events in Germany, though I am interested to hear more--and I keep an open mind.

I should also add that the three gentlemen on the program have been in radio media for years--they are media professionals that have worked with the host Glenn Beck for years. They are also members of the Glenn Beck radio program. You probably don't agree with Glenn Beck's politics--but I have always thought Glenn Beck--and his staff here involved in the discussion--have been reasonable and thoughtful people. Like Jeffy, the main guy talking in the short clip, I also want to see these servers, computers, etc and so on presented as evidence.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 01, 2020, 12:37:33 AM
Greetings!

Brandon Tatum attended the special hearing in Arizona. Here in the B Tatum program, Tatum discusses what he saw and heard at the public hearing.

In addition, Officer Brandon Tatum also discusses the alleged shootout in Frankfurt, Germany involving US Special Forces against CIA operators.

Very interesting, folks!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 01, 2020, 01:12:25 AM
Quote
Huh? My whole point was about how we have a great history of free speech here in the U.S. -- how we have never been limited by only select sources. I was contrasting with your claim that seemed to be elevating social media as a contrast to what came before.

I would say that none of social media, government media, or legacy media is inherently "information we can trust".

It seemed to me that you were talking up social media as a positive force that contrasted with autocratic societies. I have a negative view of social media -- and I felt that the BSM (Before Social Media) age had better alternatives.

This is why some people don't get the Babylon Bee

Dude. Sorry if that was just a joke. With all the extreme claims being posted here, I have a hard time distinguishing what are actual claims versus hyperbole versus sarcasm. Nothing personal at you.

No offense taken.  But if Rawma posts something in any tone about how Donald Trump is our savior, I know I'm reading verbal sarcasm.  Because that's counter to what he expresses in every other post. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 01, 2020, 01:30:07 AM
The hand recount in Georgia did not prove out this "Dominion machines rigged the election" claim.
The hand recount in Wisconsin did not prove out this "Dominion machines rigged the election" claim.

Tell me how many recounts it takes to at least put doubt in people's minds that this "Dominion machines rigged the election" conspiracy theory might not be legit?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 01, 2020, 02:19:55 AM
The hand recount in Georgia did not prove out this "Dominion machines rigged the election" claim.
The hand recount in Wisconsin did not prove out this "Dominion machines rigged the election" claim.

Tell me how many recounts it takes to at least put doubt in people's minds that this "Dominion machines rigged the election" conspiracy theory might not be legit?
I'll just put this CONVENIENT INFO here for ya: https://t.co/G8aorxZlRh incase of  fuckery: https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-fd11ab2/media/16e2faca6252dc5cbf7d65ff0206600d.EoCPGwhXUAAmUX9
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 01, 2020, 02:20:59 AM
WATCH THE FUCKING VIDEO AND LISTEN TO THE DISCUSSION!

Geesus some of you are fucking full of sand. I posted the video as examples of more people talking about this, for discussion here. I already said I don't know much about the events in Germany, though I am interested to hear more--and I keep an open mind.

I watched the BlazeTV and the Steve Turley video, which were at least short. I didn't watch the B Tatum video which was an hour and half. The Steve Turley video at least showed testimony being given in court.  But what was being presented in court in their clip was the contents of an anonymous email!!!  Turley acted shocked and outraged over the contents of the email -- I was shocked that a fucking anonymous email was being presented as evidence in court.

From about 6:00 in the video, "This was an anonymous email that was sent to all the members of the Arizona legislature and it was also sent to DOJ. This individual sent the email wanted to remain anonymous but had enough concern that he sent this to the criminal division at the U.S. Department of Justice. He did not want to be included in the investigation." He goes on to detail the horrible things exposed by the email, leaving aside that... it's a fucking anonymous email. Also, interestingly, it goes against the Dominion machine theory by claiming now that *any* election machine can have the same.

The BlazeTV segment was just people talking second-hand about what McInerny said -- when he's fucking 83 and long retired. He's not an inside information source to army operations. What's amazing was how all the players were emphasizing how the claims were completely unbelievable -- but then they keep going on because they have absolute faith in McInerny.


Like you, I'm trying to keep an open mind, but there has to be a filter at some point for what one is trying to keep an open mind about. Seriously, I realize that your emotions are running high - but there needs to be a filter at some point. Anonymous emails are not, in fact, shocking proof as Turley is claiming. McInerny at least is a named source, but as far as I can tell, he's not talking about anything he has first-hand knowledge of. He's just someone who has decided to believe the rumors.

But what if there are, like, *hundreds* of Twitter posts and anonymous emails. Surely that shows there is something there to be concerned about? Maybe. But also maybe not. The only thing it definitely shows is that people really *want* to believe.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 01, 2020, 02:24:26 AM
WATCH THE FUCKING VIDEO AND LISTEN TO THE DISCUSSION!

Geesus some of you are fucking full of sand. I posted the video as examples of more people talking about this, for discussion here. I already said I don't know much about the events in Germany, though I am interested to hear more--and I keep an open mind.

I watched the BlazeTV and the Steve Turley video, which were at least short. I didn't watch the B Tatum video which was an hour and half. The Steve Turley video at least showed testimony being given in court.  But what was being presented in court in their clip was the contents of an anonymous email!!!  Turley acted shocked and outraged over the contents of the email -- I was shocked that a fucking anonymous email was being presented as evidence in court.

From about 6:00 in the video, "This was an anonymous email that was sent to all the members of the Arizona legislature and it was also sent to DOJ. This individual sent the email wanted to remain anonymous but had enough concern that he sent this to the criminal division at the U.S. Department of Justice. He did not want to be included in the investigation." He goes on to detail the horrible things exposed by the email, leaving aside that... it's a fucking anonymous email. Also, interestingly, it goes against the Dominion machine theory by claiming now that *any* election machine can have the same.

The BlazeTV segment was just people talking second-hand about what McInerny said -- when he's fucking 83 and long retired. He's not an inside information source to army operations. What's amazing was how all the players were emphasizing how the claims were completely unbelievable -- but then they keep going on because they have absolute faith in McInerny.


Like you, I'm trying to keep an open mind, but there has to be a filter at some point for what one is trying to keep an open mind about. Seriously, I realize that your emotions are running high - but there needs to be a filter at some point. Anonymous emails are not, in fact, shocking proof as Turley is claiming. McInerny at least is a named source, but as far as I can tell, he's not talking about anything he has first-hand knowledge of. He's just someone who has decided to believe the rumors.

But what if there are, like, *hundreds* of Twitter posts and anonymous emails. Surely that shows there is something there to be concerned about? Maybe. But also maybe not. The only thing it definitely shows is that people really *want* to believe.
And, WHAT DID I TELL YA? https://www.dailywire.com/news/l-a-health-official-not-wearing-a-mask-is-an-act-of-domestic-terrorism-should-be-treated-like-one
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 01, 2020, 04:01:48 AM
WATCH THE FUCKING VIDEO AND LISTEN TO THE DISCUSSION!

Geesus some of you are fucking full of sand. I posted the video as examples of more people talking about this, for discussion here. I already said I don't know much about the events in Germany, though I am interested to hear more--and I keep an open mind.

I watched the BlazeTV and the Steve Turley video, which were at least short. I didn't watch the B Tatum video which was an hour and half. The Steve Turley video at least showed testimony being given in court.  But what was being presented in court in their clip was the contents of an anonymous email!!!  Turley acted shocked and outraged over the contents of the email -- I was shocked that a fucking anonymous email was being presented as evidence in court.

From about 6:00 in the video, "This was an anonymous email that was sent to all the members of the Arizona legislature and it was also sent to DOJ. This individual sent the email wanted to remain anonymous but had enough concern that he sent this to the criminal division at the U.S. Department of Justice. He did not want to be included in the investigation." He goes on to detail the horrible things exposed by the email, leaving aside that... it's a fucking anonymous email. Also, interestingly, it goes against the Dominion machine theory by claiming now that *any* election machine can have the same.

The BlazeTV segment was just people talking second-hand about what McInerny said -- when he's fucking 83 and long retired. He's not an inside information source to army operations. What's amazing was how all the players were emphasizing how the claims were completely unbelievable -- but then they keep going on because they have absolute faith in McInerny.


Like you, I'm trying to keep an open mind, but there has to be a filter at some point for what one is trying to keep an open mind about. Seriously, I realize that your emotions are running high - but there needs to be a filter at some point. Anonymous emails are not, in fact, shocking proof as Turley is claiming. McInerny at least is a named source, but as far as I can tell, he's not talking about anything he has first-hand knowledge of. He's just someone who has decided to believe the rumors.

But what if there are, like, *hundreds* of Twitter posts and anonymous emails. Surely that shows there is something there to be concerned about? Maybe. But also maybe not. The only thing it definitely shows is that people really *want* to believe.

Greetings!

Excellent, Jhkim. Indeed, some "whistleblowers" and other sources often remain anonymous--to protect their identities because of where they work, or who they work with, and that kind of thing. Law Enforcement agencies and government agencies have skills and resources and analysts with which to follow up on investigations, authenticating data within the anonymous source, and so on. Obviously, depending on the details, such can warrant extensive investigations. Even within corporate investigations, I have seen this done routinely. The more damning or serious such allegations are made, the more seriousness that investigations are proceeded with.

Furthermore, yeah, some people can be nuts, just grinding an axe, indulging fantasies, whatever. The seriousness of the events in question though--and the integrity of our election system--warrants thorough and comprehensive investigations.

Instead, what we get is told to sit down, shut up, there's nothing to see here. There's no fraud! There's no widespread fraud! There's no substantial fraud! and on and on--but little or no investigation. It's like a knee-jerk response, all of the talking heads repeating it all like a mantra. Meanwhile a whole bunch of people are screaming bullshit. Politicians, witnesses, mathematicians, cyber expert people, professional bookies, IT people, and so on.

I remember reading that AG Barr ordered DOJ agents to go about the country, and if they saw anything noteworthy, to proceed to investigate. Not three days later--less than that, as I recall--some group of DOJ agents and officials all unanimously declared there was no fraud, no corruption, nothing to see here. The election was just fine. WTF? We have states that can't seem to count their fucking votes properly in weeks--and these DOJ morons in less than three days are fucking certain that the election was just fine? You have to be fucking kidding me, you know?

Shit needs to be thoroughly investigated.

As far as Lieutenant General McInerney, well, I have heard EOTB mention it--in reference to a Colonel that was interviewed and who is a cyber expert--then Dr. Turley, then Dan Bongino, then Glenn Beck--and in some additional pieces I have read, Congressman Rep. Gohmert of Texas has discussed this, as well as Lawyer Lin Wood, and Sidney Powell, and several other commentators.

So, it seems like something is going on. If nothing happened, well, that will come out too, somewhere along the way.

If this operation really did in fact occur--and the US government has seized servers and shit, then that will be presented somewhere too. That being the case, don't you think something like that should be investigated? Again, all's I hear from the MSM and Democrat talking heads and morons like Politifact--is the Reeing that it never happened, nothing to see here. Like Politifact can be trusted? *laughing* Like the MSM such as CNN and MSNBC can be trusted? No, they have never lied, distorted, or ignored the facts. They have never bent over to get plough fucked by their Democrat candidate or favourite ever, showering them with praise and glory and cock-sucking, while hiding or ignoring uncomfortable truths?

So, no, I don't feel such sources are trustworthy at all, in the slightest. I would trust my coffee girl at the restaurant more. She might not always be right or accurate--but she is not intentionally seeking to lie to me. The MSM outlets lie on a constant basis.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 01, 2020, 04:27:13 AM
It is very telling how a single political cartoon can make the Usual Suspects lose their shit. If rawma and jhkim were as confident as they claim and not terrified that this election fraud was being found out, then the cartoon would not be causing such a stir.

I've corrected lots of disinformation in this thread; jhkim has probably done more of that, as I'm not going to spend my time watching a lengthy video or reading the Kraken filings. But if I can find the fact checks in a brief search, or just link to the court's dismissal of another frivolous lawsuit, then I'm all in.

Maybe you should find a political cartoon that isn't based on something that is completely false and so easy to disprove.

I am not being disingenuous. The terms "President elect" and "Vice President elect" are defined in federal law, and we know that the conditions for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris to claim those titles have been met. QED.

Has the Electoral College voted already?

No, then how can QED?

Here's an example of an easy correction.

Presidential Transition Act: https://www.gsa.gov/cdnstatic/Presidential_Act_of_1963.pdf
(definition of President-elect and Vice-President-elect in section 3, paragraph c.)


This tracks with Bush v Gore, where the transition was delayed until December because the election was contested.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-administration-denies-biden-access-to-transition-funds-echoing-2000-bush-gore-standoff-11604950154
(And now I linked to an article behind a paywall. Fuckin internet.)

Quote
Letter of ascertainment from the head of the GSA: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/gop-senator-business-leaders-urge-prompt-biden-transition/2020/11/23/1ab6cbae-2dc7-11eb-9dd6-2d0179981719_story.html

Paywall.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 01, 2020, 05:04:09 AM
The hand recount in Georgia did not prove out this "Dominion machines rigged the election" claim.
The hand recount in Wisconsin did not prove out this "Dominion machines rigged the election" claim.

Tell me how many recounts it takes to at least put doubt in people's minds that this "Dominion machines rigged the election" conspiracy theory might not be legit?

The recounts were verifications of the previous results, not audits of whether there was subversion of the process.  You know that very well. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 01, 2020, 07:56:01 AM
The hand recount in Georgia did not prove out this "Dominion machines rigged the election" claim.
The hand recount in Wisconsin did not prove out this "Dominion machines rigged the election" claim.

Tell me how many recounts it takes to at least put doubt in people's minds that this "Dominion machines rigged the election" conspiracy theory might not be legit?

The recounts were verifications of the previous results, not audits of whether there was subversion of the process.  You know that very well.
Yup, but Mistwell is inherently dishonest, so...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 01, 2020, 01:34:09 PM
The hand recount in Georgia did not prove out this "Dominion machines rigged the election" claim.
The hand recount in Wisconsin did not prove out this "Dominion machines rigged the election" claim.

Tell me how many recounts it takes to at least put doubt in people's minds that this "Dominion machines rigged the election" conspiracy theory might not be legit?

The recounts were verifications of the previous results, not audits of whether there was subversion of the process.  You know that very well.

If by hand you count 10 votes for X and 5 votes for Y, and the machine had also counted 10 votes for X and 5 votes for Y from those same ballots, that demonstrates the machine is not fixing the vote. It's not going to tell you if there were some ballots which were "fake" or something, but it is going to tell you if the machine was changing the results of the count. So it doesn't disprove all possible allegations but it does disprove that allegation about the Dominion machines.

Wisconsin and Arizona are now certified. Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Georgia previously certified.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 01, 2020, 01:37:46 PM
That is absolutely horrible logic.  I can see why you get upset when people share videos about the actual allegations being made; it takes true ignorance of the allegations for arguments such as yours to have any effect.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 01, 2020, 01:42:51 PM
That is absolutely horrible logic.  I can see why you get upset when people share videos about the actual allegations being made; it takes true ignorance of the allegations for arguments such as yours to have any effect.

The closer it gets to the inevitability of you having to accept you were wrong and Trump lost, the crankier and more personal your attacks become. Which is to be expected, but it's a bit sad watching it happen.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 01, 2020, 02:19:39 PM
There’s nothing to be cranky about Misty.  We’ll just have to see what happens.  Your type of republican is reviled more with every passing day, as shown by cratering ratings at Paul Ryan’s Fox News, now only supported by the boomerist of boomers. 

As I said upthread, the decision point is SCOTUS, or possibly whether Trump is willing to upset tradition entirely.  I wouldn’t bet on his willingness to do that.  But most importantly, the real need is to get all the RINOs out of the Republican Party or leave it behind.

And every day a greater number of red voters sees our two groups are not on the same side, dispelling an illusion that persisted for decades. 

This development is much more important long-term than a trump presidency, if his ceiling for change is what the rest of the establishment is willing to do on his behalf but he is not willing to do himself.

And if he is willing to do it himself then the party purge happens anyway

Nothing to get cranky about.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 01, 2020, 02:38:44 PM
There’s nothing to be cranky about Misty.  We’ll just have to see what happens.  Your type of republican is reviled more with every passing day, as shown by cratering ratings at Paul Ryan’s Fox News, now only supported by the boomerist of boomers. 

As I said upthread, the decision point is SCOTUS, or possibly whether Trump is willing to upset tradition entirely.  I wouldn’t bet on his willingness to do that.  But most importantly, the real need is to get all the RINOs out of the Republican Party or leave it behind.

And every day a greater number of red voters sees our two groups are not on the same side, dispelling an illusion that persisted for decades. 

This development is much more important long-term than a trump presidency, if his ceiling for change is what the rest of the establishment is willing to do on his behalf but he is not willing to do himself.

And if he is willing to do it himself then the party purge happens anyway

Nothing to get cranky about.
I really want to see Bill Kristol out of a job.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 01, 2020, 02:57:45 PM
There’s nothing to be cranky about Misty.  We’ll just have to see what happens.  Your type of republican is reviled more with every passing day, as shown by cratering ratings at Paul Ryan’s Fox News, now only supported by the boomerist of boomers. 

I don't watch Fox News and have not for probably a decade now. But if by boomerist of boomers you mean "maybe not deficit spend the nation into bankruptcy" then sure. For what it is worth, I am Gen-X, not a Boomer.

Quote
As I said upthread, the decision point is SCOTUS, or possibly whether Trump is willing to upset tradition entirely.  I wouldn’t bet on his willingness to do that.  But most importantly, the real need is to get all the RINOs out of the Republican Party or leave it behind.

And every day a greater number of red voters sees our two groups are not on the same side, dispelling an illusion that persisted for decades. 

This development is much more important long-term than a trump presidency, if his ceiling for change is what the rest of the establishment is willing to do on his behalf but he is not willing to do himself.

And if he is willing to do it himself then the party purge happens anyway

Nothing to get cranky about.

Trump is a cult of personality. His own followers don't even believe in plenty of his policy decisions, because it's about an attitude and not policies. Once he's out of office and peddling his bullshit on his own network, we'll see what's left of his movement. A movement centered on a single individual only lasts as long as that individual, unless you're Mao. And Trump is no Mao.

As for your dreams of a purge, that's the opposite of what's about to happen. In an era where you have a President from one party and a Senate from the other and a House which is nearly evenly split, compromise becomes the dominant trait. There will be no purge of the moderates. The moderates are about to gain power, and the extremists will be cast as standing in the way of any progress on issues Republican voters care about.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 01, 2020, 02:58:41 PM
Here's an example of an easy correction.

Presidential Transition Act: https://www.gsa.gov/cdnstatic/Presidential_Act_of_1963.pdf
(definition of President-elect and Vice-President-elect in section 3, paragraph c.)

Letter of ascertainment from the head of the GSA: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/gop-senator-business-leaders-urge-prompt-biden-transition/2020/11/23/1ab6cbae-2dc7-11eb-9dd6-2d0179981719_story.html

When did I become the fucking US Electoral fact checker:

Quote
(c) The terms “President-elect” and “Vice-President-elect” as used in this Act shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful candidates for the office of the President and Vice President, respectively, as ascertained by the Administrator following the general elections held to determine the electors of the President and Vice-President in accordance with title 3, United States code, sections 1 and 2.

So again, how can QED?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 01, 2020, 03:32:05 PM
I really want to see Bill Kristol out of a job.

A lot of people do.  Misty’s Neville-strategy is deeply disliked.  Compromise requires willing parties.  I have no doubt of the RINO willingness to compromise - but compromisers are swept aside when the people are no longer in the mood.

The next couple of years should be interesting.  One thing is for sure, it will take a grass-roots .org, which is a 180 away from conventional GOP large donor-reliance strategies.  But then, if the people are only willing to provide clicks and likes instead of time, sweat, and funds - a representative government isn’t going to work for them anyway.  The only two options in bread and circuses world is an authoritarian oligarchy or a benevolent dictatorship.  It will never be a virtuous republic funded by multinationals and billionaires.  Ostriches have vestigial wings
For appearances but can’t fly.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 01, 2020, 03:40:04 PM

I don't watch Fox News and have not for probably a decade now.


That’s just the issue. I also didn’t normally watch it. I was always told that FOX news was pretty much the least reliable of the major news channels. That simply isn’t the case anymore. After NYT and CNN had lied to my face a number of times I dropped them, and realized that FOX is actually more reliable on pure facts, and I checked this in areas that I know something about first hand. Fox news can be biased for sure. But many people are still stuck in the belief that left-leaning media are “more accurate and scientific”. No. Seriously, they are not.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 01, 2020, 04:14:40 PM

I don't watch Fox News and have not for probably a decade now.


That’s just the issue. I also didn’t normally watch it. I was always told that FOX news was pretty much the least reliable of the major news channels. That simply isn’t the case anymore. After NYT and CNN had lied to my face a number of times I dropped them, and realized that FOX is actually more reliable on pure facts, and I checked this in areas that I know something about first hand. Fox news can be biased for sure. But many people are still stuck in the belief that left-leaning media are “more accurate and scientific”. No. Seriously, they are not.

I am certainly not trying to imply that a network like CNN is more reliable than Fox News. I don't watch any of them. There are better places to get accurate news than any 24 hour news network.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 01, 2020, 04:20:03 PM
LINK (https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-elections-william-barr-b1f1488796c9a98c4b1a9061a6c7f49d)

Attorney General William Barr said Tuesday the Justice Department has not uncovered evidence of widespread voter fraud that would change the outcome of the 2020 presidential election.

...Barr said U.S. attorneys and FBI agents have been working to follow up specific complaints and information they’ve received, but they’ve uncovered no evidence that would change the outcome of the election. Barr was headed to the White House later for a previously scheduled meeting.

“To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election,” Barr told the AP.

The comments are especially direct coming from Barr, who has been one of the president’s most ardent allies. Before the election, he had repeatedly raised the notion that mail-in voter fraud could be especially vulnerable to fraud during the coronavirus pandemic as Americans feared going to polls and instead chose to vote by mail.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 01, 2020, 04:54:54 PM
I watched the BlazeTV and the Steve Turley video, which were at least short. I didn't watch the B Tatum video which was an hour and half. The Steve Turley video at least showed testimony being given in court.  But what was being presented in court in their clip was the contents of an anonymous email!!!  Turley acted shocked and outraged over the contents of the email -- I was shocked that a fucking anonymous email was being presented as evidence in court.

Furthermore, yeah, some people can be nuts, just grinding an axe, indulging fantasies, whatever. The seriousness of the events in question though--and the integrity of our election system--warrants thorough and comprehensive investigations.

Instead, what we get is told to sit down, shut up, there's nothing to see here. There's no fraud! There's no widespread fraud! There's no substantial fraud! and on and on--but little or no investigation. It's like a knee-jerk response, all of the talking heads repeating it all like a mantra. Meanwhile a whole bunch of people are screaming bullshit. Politicians, witnesses, mathematicians, cyber expert people, professional bookies, IT people, and so on.

Here you're equating *not* finding fraud with *not* investigating -- when there is a huge difference. I think claims should be investigated, but it is a definite possibility that after investigating a given claim, the conclusion is that the claim is false. The thing is, it seems to me that there is far more investigation happening by those who are looking critically at the claims -- rather than those who are screaming fraud. For example, much has been made of the claims of cybersecurity Dr. Navid Keshavarz-Nia, whose expert witness declaration is here:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mied.350905/gov.uscourts.mied.350905.1.19.pdf

That has been cited earlier in this thread, but most people haven't even read it, let alone investigated. Notably, it contains the claim "In another case for Edison County, MI, Vice President Biden received more than 100% of the votes at 5:59 PM EST on November 4, 2020 and again he received 99.61% of the votes at 2:23 PM EST on November 5, 2020. These distributions are cause for concern and indicate fraud."

To the people who are screaming, this is proof right there. The guy is a cyber-security expert, and he says what they want to hear. But the problem is, this claim is blatantly false. There is no such place as Edison County, MI. Look it up for yourself.

This is a very simple check - and yet those crying out fraud haven't even bothered to do this simple check. I'm seeing a lot of such checks on the claims from fact-checkers and reporters - but never from the people who are screaming fraud. For example, in the BlazeTV video, they even made a point of going to Snopes to check out the claim of the Frankfurt raid. They dismissed the Snopes finding, but they didn't do any sort of investigation of their own. Instead, they just swapped opinions between themselves about how outraged they were, and how could this be happening.


Again, all's I hear from the MSM and Democrat talking heads and morons like Politifact--is the Reeing that it never happened, nothing to see here. Like Politifact can be trusted? *laughing* Like the MSM such as CNN and MSNBC can be trusted? No, they have never lied, distorted, or ignored the facts. They have never bent over to get plough fucked by their Democrat candidate or favourite ever, showering them with praise and glory and cock-sucking, while hiding or ignoring uncomfortable truths?

So, no, I don't feel such sources are trustworthy at all, in the slightest. I would trust my coffee girl at the restaurant more. She might not always be right or accurate--but she is not intentionally seeking to lie to me. The MSM outlets lie on a constant basis.

It sounds like you're prioritizing *intent* over *truth* here. i.e. It doesn't matter if what I hear is the truth, as long as it isn't an *intentional* lie. But even if they aren't intentionally lying, listening to people's Twitter feeds and Youtube videos are passing on the lies of other downstream sources. Worse, they're passing on the most outrageous lies, because outrage gets the most "likes".

I feel that believing the local gossip and the social media of friends is promoting ever greater falsehoods. For my local restaurants and my social media feeds, it's usually liberal-leaning falsehoods. I have to call people out on fact-checks regularly.

I also have concerns about the mainstream media, and I try to balance by also reading conservative sources like Fox News and Breitbart. What I care about is the truth, not intent.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 01, 2020, 05:30:07 PM
The most simple and easy way to investigate fraud would be a signature check on mail in votes.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 01, 2020, 07:53:47 PM
The most simple and easy way to investigate fraud would be a signature check on mail in votes.

That's done out here in California. I know someone who was notified of a failed check and they had 3 days to verify it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 01, 2020, 07:59:06 PM

I don't watch Fox News and have not for probably a decade now.


That’s just the issue. I also didn’t normally watch it. I was always told that FOX news was pretty much the least reliable of the major news channels. That simply isn’t the case anymore. After NYT and CNN had lied to my face a number of times I dropped them, and realized that FOX is actually more reliable on pure facts, and I checked this in areas that I know something about first hand. Fox news can be biased for sure. But many people are still stuck in the belief that left-leaning media are “more accurate and scientific”. No. Seriously, they are not.

I am certainly not trying to imply that a network like CNN is more reliable than Fox News. I don't watch any of them. There are better places to get accurate news than any 24 hour news network.

Are there? I’m curious as out what you mean.  I get my news from “everywhere” (news, science publications, certain YouTube channels  etc) and for the things that I am interested in I have to compare stories. I wouldn’t say that any one source is reliable.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on December 01, 2020, 08:08:10 PM
The most simple and easy way to investigate fraud would be a signature check on mail in votes.

How would that work when ballots don't have signatures and they don't keep the envelopes?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 01, 2020, 08:17:54 PM
The most simple and easy way to investigate fraud would be a signature check on mail in votes.

How would that work when ballots don't have signatures and they don't keep the envelopes?

Yes, how can you check the evidence when you throw it away?

That is a real head scratcher.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 01, 2020, 09:09:36 PM
I am not being disingenuous. The terms "President elect" and "Vice President elect" are defined in federal law, and we know that the conditions for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris to claim those titles have been met. QED.

Has the Electoral College voted already?

No, then how can QED?

Here's an example of an easy correction.

Presidential Transition Act: https://www.gsa.gov/cdnstatic/Presidential_Act_of_1963.pdf
(definition of President-elect and Vice-President-elect in section 3, paragraph c.)


This tracks with Bush v Gore, where the transition was delayed until December because the election was contested.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-administration-denies-biden-access-to-transition-funds-echoing-2000-bush-gore-standoff-11604950154
(And now I linked to an article behind a paywall. Fuckin internet.)

This is nothing like 2000, which was driven by actual uncertainty of the outcome; this is entirely driven by Trump's ego and narcissism. (Delay until 11/7/2020 was caused by the pandemic and the large amount of voting by mail, although Republican legislatures blocked early counting in the "Blue Wall" states that Trump flipped in 2016, so we knew that was coming. But there was a lot more reluctance to call additional states until Pennsylvania than there was with Florida in 2000.)

In 2000, Bush leading in Florida by 537 votes (out of nearly 6 million) had 271 electoral votes. (Gore did not contest New Hampshire, which Bush led by only 7,211 votes, closer than any Biden win in this election - flipping that would also have given Gore the win.) Recounts in the current election have certainly been able to shift totals by more than 537 votes (but not 7000+), and Trump would be well justified in lengthily contesting states that were as close as Florida was in 2000. Subsequent recounts by media groups showed that Gore might have won Florida under some consistent standards of counting; the Supreme Court blocked the recount in process and ran out the clock, remanding just before the safe harbor deadline provided for in federal law. That was a reasonable delay in transition activities, if not ideal; the outcome was truly uncertain before the Supreme Court ruling.

However, Bush and key staff did receive full intelligence briefings during the delayed transition; but access to most agencies (for example, to get background checks by the FBI on proposed appointees) was generally impeded. (The 9/11 commission put some blame on the delay, but it was almost 8 months after Bush was inaugurated and I would hope you could catch up by then. Bush reportedly blew off a warning in the Presidential Daily Briefing well before 9/11.) I won't provide a link to the Andy Card and John Podesta (White House chiefs of staff for Bush and Clinton, respectively) op-ed that discusses this because it's at the Washington Post website so same paywall; published on November 10th, they called for an immediate recognition of the then obvious outcome, to avoid harmful delay. By contrast with 2000, we are now deep in the third surge of a pandemic that's killed 250,000 and trashed the economy; until Biden was recognized as President-elect, he and his transition team pandemic response experts were blocked from talking to administration experts (like Dr. Fauci) and there may be many preventable deaths just from that delay.

Quote
Quote
Letter of ascertainment from the head of the GSA: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/gop-senator-business-leaders-urge-prompt-biden-transition/2020/11/23/1ab6cbae-2dc7-11eb-9dd6-2d0179981719_story.html

Paywall.

Sorry; this one seems OK. https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/politics/gsa-transition-letter/index.html

You can get past the paywall for some sites by using another browser with all history cleared, if they allow one free article; or by googling for the article and reading the google cache if there is one; both ways are kind of a pain and hit-or-miss. I've also been able to read some paywall articles at libraries, back when libraries were a place you could go.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 01, 2020, 10:34:00 PM
Here's an example of an easy correction.

Presidential Transition Act: https://www.gsa.gov/cdnstatic/Presidential_Act_of_1963.pdf
(definition of President-elect and Vice-President-elect in section 3, paragraph c.)

Letter of ascertainment from the head of the GSA: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/gop-senator-business-leaders-urge-prompt-biden-transition/2020/11/23/1ab6cbae-2dc7-11eb-9dd6-2d0179981719_story.html

When did I become the fucking US Electoral fact checker:

Quote
(c) The terms “President-elect” and “Vice-President-elect” as used in this Act shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful candidates for the office of the President and Vice President, respectively, as ascertained by the Administrator following the general elections held to determine the electors of the President and Vice-President in accordance with title 3, United States code, sections 1 and 2.

So again, how can QED?

Wow, I thought you were trolling but you're actually confused, something trolls don't generally feign. It's simple logic.

Only the President-elect, as ascertained by the head of the GSA, can receive funding, access, etc as provided for in the Presidential Transition Act.
Joe Biden is receiving those things because the head of the GSA rather belatedly said he could.
Therefore, he must be the President-elect.

In propositional logic, the premises are: if A then P; if not A then not F; F.
The second is equivalent to if F then A, the contrapositive.
Apply modus ponens ("the rule of logic stating that if a conditional statement (“if p then q ”) is accepted, and the antecedent ( p ) holds, then the consequent ( q ) may be inferred") twice:
From F and if F then A one can deduce A.
From A and if A then P one can deduce P.
A is "The head of the GSA has ascertained that Biden is the apparently successful candidate for president".
P is "Biden is the President-elect".
F is "Biden is receiving funding, access, etc under the Presidential Transition Act".

QED.

(Another possibility would be that GSA Administrator Emily Murphy is violating the law; Trump appointees do that fairly often. But she wrote the letter, and that's ascertainment, no matter how peevish the letter, And it's not really in Donald Trump's interest that she violate the law in this way (because it bruises his ego, not because he cares about the law), so you'd think he would do something about it between golf outings.)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 01, 2020, 11:43:27 PM
But if Rawma posts something in any tone about how Donald Trump is our savior, I know I'm reading verbal sarcasm.

I tried very hard to find a counter-example; closest I came: someday, it may be that the incompetent authoritarian Trump who failed so thoroughly prodded the US to shore up its norms and institutions, saving us from a future competent authoritarian who found fewer vulnerabilities than Trump. But I'd really lay that to the reformers, not Trump.

Hmm, maybe Trump's propensity to lie and self-aggrandize could save Earth from credulous aliens, like Somerset Frisby in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hocus-Pocus_and_Frisby but I don't think Trump plays the harmonica and nobody believed Mr. Frisby anyway so only Rod Serling could identify Trump as our unlikely savior.

Fact Check: EOTB's statement is rated COMPLETELY TRUE, probably even in the Twilight Zone.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 02, 2020, 12:14:46 AM
The most simple and easy way to investigate fraud would be a signature check on mail in votes.

How would that work when ballots don't have signatures and they don't keep the envelopes?

Actually, with just the briefest of research, I found a whole lot of states do signature verification.

Here is the California one:

https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/signature-mismatch-ballot-california/

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 02, 2020, 12:23:37 AM
I am not being disingenuous. The terms "President elect" and "Vice President elect" are defined in federal law, and we know that the conditions for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris to claim those titles have been met. QED.

Has the Electoral College voted already?

No, then how can QED?

Here's an example of an easy correction.

Presidential Transition Act: https://www.gsa.gov/cdnstatic/Presidential_Act_of_1963.pdf
(definition of President-elect and Vice-President-elect in section 3, paragraph c.)


This tracks with Bush v Gore, where the transition was delayed until December because the election was contested.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-administration-denies-biden-access-to-transition-funds-echoing-2000-bush-gore-standoff-11604950154
(And now I linked to an article behind a paywall. Fuckin internet.)

This is nothing like 2000, which was driven by actual uncertainty of the outcome; this is entirely driven by Trump's ego and narcissism.

Hyperbole. Many people aside from Trump are suspicious and have questions about the election results. I am suspicious and have questions about the election results. I have the luxury of being patient and seeing how this all shakes out, because I'm not the one who ran for President.

Quote
In 2000, Bush leading in Florida by 537 votes (out of nearly 6 million) had 271 electoral votes. (Gore did not contest New Hampshire, which Bush led by only 7,211 votes, closer than any Biden win in this election - flipping that would also have given Gore the win.) Recounts in the current election have certainly been able to shift totals by more than 537 votes (but not 7000+), and Trump would be well justified in lengthily contesting states that were as close as Florida was in 2000. Subsequent recounts by media groups showed that Gore might have won Florida under some consistent standards of counting; the Supreme Court blocked the recount in process and ran out the clock, remanding just before the safe harbor deadline provided for in federal law. That was a reasonable delay in transition activities, if not ideal; the outcome was truly uncertain before the Supreme Court ruling.

However, Bush and key staff did receive full intelligence briefings during the delayed transition; but access to most agencies (for example, to get background checks by the FBI on proposed appointees) was generally impeded. (The 9/11 commission put some blame on the delay, but it was almost 8 months after Bush was inaugurated and I would hope you could catch up by then. Bush reportedly blew off a warning in the Presidential Daily Briefing well before 9/11.) I won't provide a link to the Andy Card and John Podesta (White House chiefs of staff for Bush and Clinton, respectively) op-ed that discusses this because it's at the Washington Post website so same paywall; published on November 10th, they called for an immediate recognition of the then obvious outcome, to avoid harmful delay. By contrast with 2000, we are now deep in the third surge of a pandemic that's killed 250,000 and trashed the economy; until Biden was recognized as President-elect, he and his transition team pandemic response experts were blocked from talking to administration experts (like Dr. Fauci) and there may be many preventable deaths just from that delay.

What's a Biden administration going to do that a Trump administration hasn't? Democrats have been calling for lockdowns which is where our trashed economy is coming from. Tell us to socially distance and wear masks? That's nothing new. I suppose he could claim the vaccine if it's effective. Or blame it on Trump if the distribution has problems. Listen to Fauci when he says it's safe to open the schools? The teacher's unions are blocking that.

I predict that Corona will be handled under Biden exactly the same as under Trump, except with a positive spin of his excuses from the media.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 02, 2020, 12:40:51 AM
I have procured come more information in the hopes of stimulating the debates currently slowing down in this thread. I even placed a few CONSPIRACY THEORIES for those interested. For those not interested, don't worry, be happy!  ;D   And, AWAY WE GO:

Things that make you go:
Hmm… https://twitter.com/va_shiva/status/1333530175770857475
https://twitter.com/TeamTrump/status/1333533891869757443
https://twitter.com/JustTheTweets17/status/1333586736933429252
https://twitter.com/NatyLiy/status/1333500580287950849
https://twitter.com/lourdesmz/status/1332694685379416065
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/dominion-trained-contractor-blows-michigan-hearing-re-scanning-counting-ballots-8-10-times-video/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/china-connection-parent-company-dominion-voting-systems-received-400-million-ubs-bank-switzerland-75-owned-chinese-government/
https://thenationalpulse.com/news/dominion-techie-worked-for-ccp-military-proxy-flagged-by-u-s-govt-for-malicious-cyber-activity/
The TRAITOR’S LIST: https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/megan-fox/2020/02/09/busted-mike-pompeo-says-he-has-list-of-american-governors-compromised-by-communist-china-n381385
A REMINDER: https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-fd11ab2/media/bbd2930e3d1aac383aebf52f50803d88.D2C6H_NXgAECHZq

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2020/11/30/parnell-kelly-act-72-appeal-scotus/#.X8ZH6mCws4U.twitter
https://www.theepochtimes.com/powell-dominion-server-removed-from-fulton-county-while-lawyers-sought-restraining-order_3599859.html
https://twitter.com/AOECOIN/status/1333812820429848578
https://twitter.com/SgtMal/status/1333655654414880769

OMG! https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1333641704839147520
GitMO! https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-fd11ab2/media/bbd2930e3d1aac383aebf52f50803d88.EoIgRlnVEAA8BW2

https://twitter.com/congbillposey/status/1327308778170146821

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-campaign-wisconsin-lawsuit-absentee-voting
https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1333774107624685569
https://www.theepochtimes.com/judge-lets-arizona-gop-review-sampling-of-ballots-as-part-of-election-lawsuit_3600068.html

Who do we vote for again? Oh, that’s right, the Electors:
https://www.theepochtimes.com/arizona-lawmakers-call-for-resolution-to-hold-back-electoral-college-votes_3599250.html
https://twitter.com/SenMastriano/status/1333578227890221056

Conspiracy_Theory_101 ~ Q_Link: https://twitter.com/DrivelCivil/status/1333831114201317376
            https://twitter.com/DrivelCivil/status/1333832609579769856
            https://twitter.com/DrivelCivil/status/1333833611879956481
            https://twitter.com/DrivelCivil/status/1333834344004153344
The Pardon: https://t.co/kNxQ6SU0zf?amp=1

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 02, 2020, 01:08:54 AM
I’m just gonna leave this here  ;D

https://babylonbee.com/news/in-national-survey-of-favorite-foods-lukewarm-bowl-of-porridge-wins-80-million-votes

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 02, 2020, 07:24:01 AM
Quote
(c) The terms “President-elect” and “Vice-President-elect” as used in this Act shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful candidates for the office of the President and Vice President, respectively, as ascertained by the Administrator following the general elections held to determine the electors of the President and Vice-President in accordance with title 3, United States code, sections 1 and 2.

So again, how can QED?
"... apparent successful candidates "
"... as used in this Act"

One of the standards for defining the President-elect is the GSA admin's assessment. It's a legal standard, and it authorizes other agencies to take various steps to facilitate the transition, because that's it's purpose: It defines a formal point where additional access is granted. But it doesn't claim to be the authoritative definition. The act defines and uses the term, but only in the context of the document. And it's clearly based on a projection, not on the final reality. The GSA administrator's ruling, after all, has no effect on whether someone becomes president.

There's an older and more authoritative definition, though. It's not formally defined in the Constitution, but it's strongly implied. And unlike the GSA admin's assessment, it's based on reality not a projection. It's when the Electoral Collage votes, and picks a president. (Or the same happens via one of the contingent methods, as described in the Constitution.) That's the final, conclusive determination of the President-elect.

A third definition is when states with 270 electoral votes certify their results. Which isn't final, because states choose their electors, and electors can do what they want. The fourth definition is when one of the major candidates concedes. The fifth and weakest definition is based on various third party projections (like the AP's) shortly after the election results come in.

In most elections, these distinctions don't matter. The AP makes a call, the other candidate concedes, the GSA admin authorizes the various agencies to start the transition process, the states certify their results for the projected candidate, and the Electoral College vote is just a formality. But none of the preliminary steps are final. The steps are traditionally pro forma, but they don't have to be. If it's contested, the correct answer to recognize the ambiguity.

There's been no concession, states with 270 electoral votes have not been certified in favor of one candidate, and the Electoral College has not even been appointed. But the projections are for Biden, the cases disputing the results are winding down, states have begun to certify their results, and the GSA admin's letter has started the transition process in his favor. He's almost certainly going to become the President-elect, so terms like "presumed President-elect" or "presumptive President-elect" are appropriate. But stating that he is the President-elect, full stop, with no qualifications, is simply incorrect.

It's an easy mistake, given the weight of tradition, so it's no surprise people were initially confused, and it took a while to work out the details. But at this point, the news media have had plenty of time to look it over, correct themselves, and put a qualifier in front President-elect. Since they've chosen not to, that means they're deliberately lying.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 02, 2020, 02:35:04 PM
I have procured come more information in the hopes of stimulating the debates currently slowing down in this thread. I even placed a few CONSPIRACY THEORIES for those interested. For those not interested, don't worry, be happy!  ;D   And, AWAY WE GO:

I'm interested but more in a meta way. It seems to me like you're tossing out huge numbers of links, but don't engage at all in trying to analyze or think critically about them. It reminds me of a recent Scientific American article about information overload on social media. It's a pretty simple principle - as people's newsfeeds fill up, they think less about each item, and instead share them based only on emotion and cognitive biases.

(https://static.scientificamerican.com/sciam/assets/Image/2020/saw1220Menc31_d.png)
Source: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/information-overload-helps-fake-news-spread-and-social-media-knows-it/

I feel that we should be thinking critically about each claim, and would prefer to focus on just a few points.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 02, 2020, 02:51:39 PM
Here's an example of an easy correction.

Presidential Transition Act: https://www.gsa.gov/cdnstatic/Presidential_Act_of_1963.pdf
(definition of President-elect and Vice-President-elect in section 3, paragraph c.)

Letter of ascertainment from the head of the GSA: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/gop-senator-business-leaders-urge-prompt-biden-transition/2020/11/23/1ab6cbae-2dc7-11eb-9dd6-2d0179981719_story.html

When did I become the fucking US Electoral fact checker:

Quote
(c) The terms “President-elect” and “Vice-President-elect” as used in this Act shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful candidates for the office of the President and Vice President, respectively, as ascertained by the Administrator following the general elections held to determine the electors of the President and Vice-President in accordance with title 3, United States code, sections 1 and 2.

So again, how can QED?

Wow, I thought you were trolling but you're actually confused, something trolls don't generally feign. It's simple logic.

Only the President-elect, as ascertained by the head of the GSA, can receive funding, access, etc as provided for in the Presidential Transition Act.
Joe Biden is receiving those things because the head of the GSA rather belatedly said he could.
Therefore, he must be the President-elect.

In propositional logic, the premises are: if A then P; if not A then not F; F.
The second is equivalent to if F then A, the contrapositive.
Apply modus ponens ("the rule of logic stating that if a conditional statement (“if p then q ”) is accepted, and the antecedent ( p ) holds, then the consequent ( q ) may be inferred") twice:
From F and if F then A one can deduce A.
From A and if A then P one can deduce P.
A is "The head of the GSA has ascertained that Biden is the apparently successful candidate for president".
P is "Biden is the President-elect".
F is "Biden is receiving funding, access, etc under the Presidential Transition Act".

QED.

(Another possibility would be that GSA Administrator Emily Murphy is violating the law; Trump appointees do that fairly often. But she wrote the letter, and that's ascertainment, no matter how peevish the letter, And it's not really in Donald Trump's interest that she violate the law in this way (because it bruises his ego, not because he cares about the law), so you'd think he would do something about it between golf outings.)

Do you even read your own sources?

Honest question.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 02, 2020, 03:16:25 PM
The most simple and easy way to investigate fraud would be a signature check on mail in votes.

How would that work when ballots don't have signatures and they don't keep the envelopes?

Yes, how can you check the evidence when you throw it away?

That is a real head scratcher.
This is how it is easy to reach the conclusion not enough evidence to counter the election results....but I am sure that stuff was tossed for good reasons, despite this being a MONUMENTAL increase in the number of mail in ballots.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Aglondir on December 02, 2020, 03:51:38 PM
Remaining court cases for Trump campaign (2 Dec):

Quote from: Brietbart.com
Arizona

Kelli Ward, who leads the Republican Party of Arizona, is challenging the election results, arguing that the state’s vote-by-mail procedures are too lax, and that observers were not able to verify the ballots being counted. She wants the state’s certification of the election results to be set aside until the signatures that accompany absentee ballots can be reviewed.

Georgia

Sidney Powell is suing to block the certification of results and toss out mail-in ballots because of alleged faults in the Dominion voting machines and the Smartmatic software. A lawsuit by the Thomas More Society also argues that the Mark Zuckerberg-funded Center for Technology and Civic Life (CTCL) funded public “safe elections” operations in predominantly Democratic countries, violating state law and also violating the Constitution’s Equal Protection Clause.

Michigan

Sidney Powell has a lawsuit similar to the Michigan suit. The Amistad Project of the Thomas More Society is suing over Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson’s decision to send absentee ballot request forms to every registered voter, allegedly with no authority and lax standards. It argues observers were not allowed proper oversight, and cites affidavits stating some ballots were counted multiple times, among other irregularities. It also cites Zuckerberg and CTCL’s efforts.

Nevada

In Law v. Whitmer, the Trump campaign has sued six electors for Joe Biden on behalf of six Republican electors, alleging that Nevada authorities “developed an implemented an election system that was highly susceptible to fraud and abuse.” The lawsuit specifically claims that with a flood of mail-in ballots, officials in Clark County (home to Las Vegas) used electronic verification methods that are allegedly unreliable. It also lists other problems, such as computer malfunctions.

Pennsylvania

There are several active cases. Two are particularly important. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court rejected a Republican challenge last week to the state’s vote-by-mail law, Act 77 of 2019, citing the doctrine of laches — i.e. because it supposedly came too late, and after Republicans had a chance to sue in the primary election. The Third Circuit Court of Appeals tossed out the Trump campaign’s effort to block certification. Both cases have been appealed to the Supreme Court.

Wisconsin

A lawsuit by the Amos Center for Justice and Liberty seeks to have the state’s mail-in ballots that were placed in drop-off boxes invalidated, on the grounds that the boxes were illegal. Another lawsuit by the Wisconsin Voters Alliance also targets Zuckerberg’s donations to CTCL. It also says the state illegally relaxed voter ID by letting hundreds of thousands of voters claim they were “indefinitely confined,” tainting the results, which separate Biden and Trump by about 20,000 votes.

Source: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/02/remaining-court-battles-for-trump-campaign-republicans-over-election-results/ (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/02/remaining-court-battles-for-trump-campaign-republicans-over-election-results/):
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 02, 2020, 04:02:18 PM
This is nothing like 2000, which was driven by actual uncertainty of the outcome; this is entirely driven by Trump's ego and narcissism.

Hyperbole. Many people aside from Trump are suspicious and have questions about the election results. I am suspicious and have questions about the election results. I have the luxury of being patient and seeing how this all shakes out, because I'm not the one who ran for President.

The people who are suspicious and have questions about the election results are either coddling Trump (to avoid getting fired, attacked, or losing votes in their next election) or are part of the grift, either as perpetrators, unwitting collaborators or marks. Bill Barr says no evidence of sufficient fraud to change anything; Chris Krebs got fired for saying as much. Numerous Republicans stand by the integrity of the election they ran in their state. Many Congressional Republicans privately want Trump to give it up, but won't say so in public.

In 2000, Republicans knew that the Florida result could be overturned easily in a recount; that's why paid Republican operatives including congressional staffers stopped one county recount in the "Brooks Brothers riot" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot ). The only people trying to stop vote counting this time were Trumpies, and nobody who prefers Biden's victory has done anything to stop the recounts because they have absolutely no fear they can overturn enough states to change the outcome. The threats that result are damaging, though, as Gabriel Sterling, a Republican election official in Georgia, states "I can't begin to explain the level of anger I have right now over this". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzBujmlI3zI

There's an older and more authoritative definition, though. It's not formally defined in the Constitution, but it's strongly implied. And unlike the GSA admin's assessment, it's based on reality not a projection. It's when the Electoral Collage votes, and picks a president. (Or the same happens via one of the contingent methods, as described in the Constitution.) That's the final, conclusive determination of the President-elect.

The explicit definition in federal law is clearly stronger than your made-up implied definition. And it's the only one with any actual consequence other than the PR you're desperately trying to spin. But I applaud your endorsement of penumbral rights found in the Constitution. Note that Congress can still contest the Electoral College votes in early January, so the Electoral College vote is not really final anyway.

Quote
A third definition is when states with 270 electoral votes certify their results. Which isn't final, because states choose their electors, and electors can do what they want.

They've been certified in all the states Trump contests, and President-elect for more than a century has been used before certification or electoral college vote. Note that electors are not free to do what they want in every state; the Supreme Court upheld state laws forcing an elector to vote as committed by the vote and their election laws. The move to get Trump electors to vote against him in 2016 was obviously doomed - electors are longtime party operatives, chosen for their loyalty - but it did set a marker when two voted against him (and another resigned and was replaced because he wouldn't vote for Trump or be faithless). Biden is mainstream enough that it's not going to happen this time at all.

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The fourth definition is when one of the major candidates concedes.

Trump tweeted that Biden won back on November 15th. He loaded it with a lot of self-serving excuses about fraud, voting machines and the media. But a concession would make someone President-conceded-to; concession has never determined who was elected.

Quote
The fifth and weakest definition is based on various third party projections (like the AP's) shortly after the election results come in.

They took until November 7th this time. Republicans had deliberately arranged for delayed counting of mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. Everyone was leery of making predictions that turned out badly, given that exit polling was useless and there was no experience with so many mail-in ballots. Fox News' early call of Arizona looked like it might have been a mistake, and most other outlets declined to call that one until well after Pennsylvania settled it. The "red mirage" that led Trump to claim multiple states was obviously wrong by the day after the election, though.

Quote
But the projections are for Biden, the cases disputing the results are winding down, states have begun to certify their results, and the GSA admin's letter has started the transition process in his favor. He's almost certainly going to become the President-elect, so terms like "presumed President-elect" or "presumptive President-elect" are appropriate. But stating that he is the President-elect, full stop, with no qualifications, is simply incorrect.

I understand that you're disappointed with the result, but Biden is President-elect; "Pat doesn't think so" is not going to get onto any list of President-elect definitions. Not sure who would have standing to sue to stop them using the title on Biden's presidential transition web site, https://buildbackbetter.gov/ , but maybe you should give it a try if Trump won't.

Quote
It's an easy mistake, given the weight of tradition, so it's no surprise people were initially confused, and it took a while to work out the details. But at this point, the news media have had plenty of time to look it over, correct themselves, and put a qualifier in front President-elect. Since they've chosen not to, that means they're deliberately lying.

Kool-aid overdose (sour grape flavor). They've looked it over and stuck with it because it's true. Media mostly prefer the fifth definition you list, because it flatters them with the most importance. But I encourage you or Trump to sue Fox News over this. Be aware that they've defended lawsuits by claiming they're entertainment rather than news, and Sean Hannity recently admitted that he doesn't vet the information on his show.

Note that many media are also referring to Biden as the 46th President; that's one thing Trump could prevent, by resigning and making Biden 47th (or beyond). Add that demand to your lawsuit, please, for the entertainment value.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 02, 2020, 04:14:19 PM
I think all we can really ask of the people on the right, is to accept Biden with the exact same spirit the left welcomed Trump.  Since there are really not very many right leaning tech giants or media firms, I would not park, walk, or go near any parked U-Haul trucks for a while.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 02, 2020, 04:20:41 PM
Kool-aid overdose (sour grape flavor). They've looked it over and stuck with it because it's true. Media mostly prefer the fifth definition you list, because it flatters them with the most importance. But I encourage you or Trump to sue Fox News over this. Be aware that they've defended lawsuits by claiming they're entertainment rather than news, and Sean Hannity recently admitted that he doesn't vet the information on his show.

Note that many media are also referring to Biden as the 46th President; that's one thing Trump could prevent, by resigning and making Biden 47th (or beyond). Add that demand to your lawsuit, please, for the entertainment value.
You're making up fantasies about me.

You're irrational and insane.

Addressing your less bugfuck crazy shit: The President-elect is not defined by the press, the GSA has no authority over who becomes president, Trump's tweet was ambiguous and he clarified it was not a concession, and just because something is almost certain to happen doesn't mean that it's already happened. Using President-elect to refer to Biden without a caveat like "presumptive" is simply incorrect. It may be acceptable in casual situations, as a shortcut, as long as everyone knows the presumptive is implied. But in professional works where precision is important, like the news, it's just wrong.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 02, 2020, 04:25:04 PM
Do you even read your own sources?

That is true, not even one of them. And have I talked about how Trump is our savior?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 02, 2020, 04:31:13 PM
This is how it is easy to reach the conclusion not enough evidence to counter the election results....but I am sure that stuff was tossed for good reasons, despite this being a MONUMENTAL increase in the number of mail in ballots.

As far as I know, in cases where the envelopes were tossed -- they were tossed because that has *always* been the procedure. Yes, there was a big increase in mail-in ballots this election, but we've seen increasing mail-in ballots for the past two decades, and that's been happening in both conservative and liberal states. The 2016 election had over 20% of its votes as mail-in, plus 17% early voting.

To be clear, I'm in favor of increased security election procedures. I dislike especially electronic-only (DRE) voting machines, and I would consider it reasonable to change the process to require filing and keeping all ballot envelopes.

But in general, these are the same procedures that we've had in place for years. These election procedures were set up and kept in place by *Republican* state administrations in many cases. It's not a mark of suspicion that elections have followed the same procedures as 2016.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 02, 2020, 04:41:04 PM
Do you even read your own sources?

That is true, not even one of them. And have I talked about how Trump is our savior?

It does make it easier to believe those conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 02, 2020, 04:45:19 PM
This is how it is easy to reach the conclusion not enough evidence to counter the election results....but I am sure that stuff was tossed for good reasons, despite this being a MONUMENTAL increase in the number of mail in ballots.

As far as I know, in cases where the envelopes were tossed -- they were tossed because that has *always* been the procedure. Yes, there was a big increase in mail-in ballots this election, but we've seen increasing mail-in ballots for the past two decades, and that's been happening in both conservative and liberal states. The 2016 election had over 20% of its votes as mail-in, plus 17% early voting.

To be clear, I'm in favor of increased security election procedures. I dislike especially electronic-only (DRE) voting machines, and I would consider it reasonable to change the process to require filing and keeping all ballot envelopes.

But in general, these are the same procedures that we've had in place for years. These election procedures were set up and kept in place by *Republican* state administrations in many cases. It's not a mark of suspicion that elections have followed the same procedures as 2016.
  You do realize absentee ballots and this year's mail in are not the same thing, I know you do, so you are intentionally comparing things as the same, when you know they are not.  As for what a "republican" does, who fucking cares?  Why on earth would I care?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 02, 2020, 04:58:46 PM
You're making up fantasies about me.

No, that's jeff37923's thing.

Quote
You're irrational and insane.

Projection from a right-winger like Pat? Nobody could have anticipated such a thing.

Quote
Addressing your less bugfuck crazy shit: The President-elect is not defined by the press, the GSA has no authority over who becomes president, Trump's tweet was ambiguous and he clarified it was not a concession, and just because something is almost certain to happen doesn't mean that it's already happened. Using President-elect to refer to Biden without a caveat like "presumptive" is simply incorrect. It may be acceptable in casual situations, as a shortcut, as long as everyone knows the presumptive is implied. But in professional works were precision is important, like the news, it's just wrong.

The title President-elect states an expectation as to who will become president after the election but before they are sworn in; it would be wrong to use it before Election Day, of course, no matter how certain you are. Ascertaining who the President-elect is, is certainly a function of the GSA administrator, as assigned by federal law. Ascertaining anyone but Biden to be President-elect would have no effect on who becomes President but would have gotten Emily Murphy in a lot of trouble; she was already subpoenaed over the delay (because it is bad for the country to delay presidential transition activities, not because anyone was peeved like you are).

I doubt you were as pedantic in 2016.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 02, 2020, 05:21:07 PM
You're making up fantasies about me.

No, that's jeff37923's thing.
Far as I can tell, the two of you are the same person. Your posts are exactly the same in every way.

You're irrational and insane.

Projection from a right-winger like Pat? Nobody could have anticipated such a thing.
You should talk to your doppelganger Jeff, he thinks I'm a left-winger. You're both idiots.

Addressing your less bugfuck crazy shit: The President-elect is not defined by the press, the GSA has no authority over who becomes president, Trump's tweet was ambiguous and he clarified it was not a concession, and just because something is almost certain to happen doesn't mean that it's already happened. Using President-elect to refer to Biden without a caveat like "presumptive" is simply incorrect. It may be acceptable in casual situations, as a shortcut, as long as everyone knows the presumptive is implied. But in professional works were precision is important, like the news, it's just wrong.

The title President-elect states an expectation as to who will become president after the election but before they are sworn in; it would be wrong to use it before Election Day, of course, no matter how certain you are. Ascertaining who the President-elect is, is certainly a function of the GSA administrator, as assigned by federal law. Ascertaining anyone but Biden to be President-elect would have no effect on who becomes President but would have gotten Emily Murphy in a lot of trouble; she was already subpoenaed over the delay (because it is bad for the country to delay presidential transition activities, not because anyone was peeved like you are).

I doubt you were as pedantic in 2016.
I think the way we use and words and how we argue matter, more than the positions we take. That's why I rarely state a position, and merely correct an error or provide some information. I think people can make up their own minds, and what I believe isn't relevant to that decision. So if Hillary Clinton contested the results in 2016, and there was a similar level of ambiguity, then absolutely yes I would have made the same arguments.

And if President-elect was just an expectation, then we'd use the term before the election, based on what the polls were saying. It's more than an expectation, it requires confirmation.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 02, 2020, 05:33:47 PM
As far as I know, in cases where the envelopes were tossed -- they were tossed because that has *always* been the procedure. Yes, there was a big increase in mail-in ballots this election, but we've seen increasing mail-in ballots for the past two decades, and that's been happening in both conservative and liberal states. The 2016 election had over 20% of its votes as mail-in, plus 17% early voting.

To be clear, I'm in favor of increased security election procedures. I dislike especially electronic-only (DRE) voting machines, and I would consider it reasonable to change the process to require filing and keeping all ballot envelopes.

But in general, these are the same procedures that we've had in place for years. These election procedures were set up and kept in place by *Republican* state administrations in many cases. It's not a mark of suspicion that elections have followed the same procedures as 2016.

Keeping ballot envelopes is probably harmless and would allow the verification process to be audited, I don't know how widely that was done. but they cannot be linked with actual ballots once verified if you want a secret ballot. That's also part of the tension with election observers; they cannot be allowed to see the name on the envelope and the ballot or they will know how somebody voted, but if they're not that close then the Republicans sue over it.

In Georgia, they don't throw out the envelopes but they don't repeat the verification in a recount; from https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/technology/georgia-recount-signature-match.html
Quote
When absentee ballots are received by Georgia’s election officials, the signature on the envelope is matched to other signatures that are part of the voter’s record. Once that is verified, the envelope containing the signature is separated from the ballot to protect the secrecy of the voter’s choice. Voters whose signatures do not match those on record are notified and asked for clarification.

The envelopes and ballots are retained for two years. But because they have been separated to protect voters’ privacy, there is no longer a way to match ballots to envelopes. As such, rechecking signatures in a recount would be meaningless.

Republicans are in some cases calling for proportional reductions (i.e., reduce the vote totals of each candidate in proportion to their original vote total based on envelopes challenged - if half the votes were from envelopes that were thrown out, both candidates lose half their votes), going by county level or other subdivision (it would be meaningless on a statewide basis, as the margin would be reduced but the winner would remain the same). But that could lead to gaming the system: if your candidate has minority support in your county or whatever subdivision then you should try to have your signature just good enough to pass the initial verification but to contain a hidden flaw that can be challenged later and statistically remove more votes from your candidate's opponent. More likely they'll just look harder for envelopes to challenge where the votes favor the other candidate, as they tried in Wisconsin by choosing to recount only the largest and most Democratic counties.

Many election challenges are being thrown out by judges because they were brought over a variety of long-standing procedures which are apparently only being challenged because the plaintiff didn't like the election outcome. Any accommodation that might have been made would not suffice because it's just an excuse to challenge the result that they dislike. They show little interest in pursuing any of these cases with respect to future elections, and no concern for these things that were known well before the election. So any changes should be made to improve the process, not to mollify the sore losers in this election.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 02, 2020, 06:49:26 PM
Republicans are in some cases calling for proportional reductions (i.e., reduce the vote totals of each candidate in proportion to their original vote total based on envelopes challenged - if half the votes were from envelopes that were thrown out, both candidates lose half their votes), going by county level or other subdivision (it would be meaningless on a statewide basis, as the margin would be reduced but the winner would remain the same). But that could lead to gaming the system: if your candidate has minority support in your county or whatever subdivision then you should try to have your signature just good enough to pass the initial verification but to contain a hidden flaw that can be challenged later and statistically remove more votes from your candidate's opponent.
That's a terrible idea. Piecemeal solutions give the judges too much discretion. That's exactly how cronyism/regulatory capture works, and in situations like this would give them an infinite variety of ways to subtly influence the election with impenetrable rationales. Even if we assume most judges try to be fair and impartial, that would create a near irresistible temptation, as well as an avenue for unconscious biases.

As I argued before, the only real solution to voting improprieties like that is the nuclear option of throwing out all ballots that don't meet the auditing standard. It's a damn shame they're so hesitant to do so, because the threat of having your vote thrown away is the strongest possible deterrent, and would ensure that all precincts have every possible incentive to ensure every possible procedure is followed to the letter, or the elected officials will face the wrath of the voters.

Many election challenges are being thrown out by judges because they were brought over a variety of long-standing procedures which are apparently only being challenged because the plaintiff didn't like the election outcome.
That's irrelevant. The only people who contest elections are those with skin in the game, and you need to have standing to bring a suit, so anyone who does is going to have an investment in changing the outcome. It's an inherent feature of an adversarial legal system. What's needed are clear standards that allow consistent rulings, regardless of who brings the suit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 02, 2020, 07:13:31 PM
This is nothing like 2000, which was driven by actual uncertainty of the outcome; this is entirely driven by Trump's ego and narcissism.

Hyperbole. Many people aside from Trump are suspicious and have questions about the election results. I am suspicious and have questions about the election results. I have the luxury of being patient and seeing how this all shakes out, because I'm not the one who ran for President.

The people who are suspicious and have questions about the election results are either coddling Trump (to avoid getting fired, attacked, or losing votes in their next election) or are part of the grift, either as perpetrators, unwitting collaborators or marks. Bill Barr says no evidence of sufficient fraud to change anything; Chris Krebs got fired for saying as much. Numerous Republicans stand by the integrity of the election they ran in their state. Many Congressional Republicans privately want Trump to give it up, but won't say so in public.

I'm not employed by Trump or getting any 'grift' from his administration. Neither are all the people polled by Reuters who suspect fraud of some sort.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/526464-half-of-republicans-in-new-poll-say-rigged-election-was-stolen-from-trump

And I can just as easily assert that Biden voters who believe the election was fair are 'marks'. Barr or Krebs aren't arbiters of whether the lawsuits can go forward.
Lot's of Republican politicians hated Trump, that's no news. They'd like to sweep him under the rug and go back to business as usual. I think it's far too late for that. Nearly 50% of Americans voted for Trump. And that's not going away during a Biden Presidency.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 02, 2020, 07:41:03 PM
You're making up fantasies about me.

No, that's jeff37923's thing.
Far as I can tell, the two of you are the same person.

Oh. That is the cruelest thing anyone has ever said to me at this site.

Posted from the burn ward. Thoughts and prayers to jeff37923 at whatever burn ward he might be in.

Quote
You're irrational and insane.

Projection from a right-winger like Pat? Nobody could have anticipated such a thing.
You should talk to your doppelganger Jeff, he thinks I'm a left-winger. You're both idiots.

Your only objection to the current President-elect declaration that wouldn't have applied in all the elections since 2000 is that Trump hasn't formally conceded to your satisfaction. And you declared that every news medium daring to use the term as it's always been used is lying. You are very concerned over the voting irregularities in the current election but apparently no other. You've posted questionable stuff from conservative sources in this thread. And yet you are surprised to be thought a right-winger?

Just in this back and forth, you asserted that the media are lying, big and small, from Fox News to the New York Times. Not mistaken, not self-aggrandizing, not following each other sheep-like, not sincerely convinced by the Presidential Transition Act. You said lying. Discrediting the media so universally is very right-wing, and of course the lie they are telling is exactly what Republicans want to be considered a lie.

Quote
I think the way we use and words and how we argue matter, more than the positions we take. That's why I rarely state a position, and merely correct an error or provide some information.

Luckily all my nerve endings have been destroyed by previous burns, or the irony would be very painful.

Your position-less posts just coincidentally support right-wing positions.

"I think the way we use and words and how we argue" (sic) makes me laugh. Edit your post, Pat, if your words matter that much.

Quote
And if President-elect was just an expectation, then we'd use the term before the election, based on what the polls were saying. It's more than an expectation, it requires confirmation.

You can't be anything-elect unless there's actually been an election.


Moving on to a less hostile exchange:

Republicans are in some cases calling for proportional reductions (i.e., reduce the vote totals of each candidate in proportion to their original vote total based on envelopes challenged - if half the votes were from envelopes that were thrown out, both candidates lose half their votes), going by county level or other subdivision (it would be meaningless on a statewide basis, as the margin would be reduced but the winner would remain the same). But that could lead to gaming the system: if your candidate has minority support in your county or whatever subdivision then you should try to have your signature just good enough to pass the initial verification but to contain a hidden flaw that can be challenged later and statistically remove more votes from your candidate's opponent.
That's a terrible idea. Piecemeal solutions give the judges too much discretion. That's exactly how cronyism/regulatory capture works, and in situations like this would give them an infinite variety of ways to subtly influence the election with impenetrable rationales. Even if we assume most judges try to be fair and impartial, that would create a near irresistible temptation, as well as an avenue for unconscious biases.

What's a terrible idea--what the Republicans request, or the consequence I imagine if it became a common remedy? I'm not advocating either, just pointing out a possible consequence, that it could become another dirty trick if challenges to envelopes succeed when the ballots are no longer associated and so remove effectively random ballots.

Quote
As I argued before, the only real solution to voting improprieties like that is the nuclear option of throwing out all ballots that don't meet the auditing standard. It's a damn shame they're so hesitant to do so, because the threat of having your vote thrown away is the strongest possible deterrent, and would ensure that all precincts have every possible incentive to ensure every possible procedures is followed to the letter, or the elected officials would face the wrath of the voters.

That means throwing out all ballots, if you don't care for the proportional method that is being requested; the envelopes are no longer associated with known ballots, in order to have a secret ballot. (It might also apply in cases not tied to envelopes, where the same absentee ballots arrive in different manners - mailed in, dropped off with the clerk, dropped off additional sites which is at issue in one of the Wisconsin challenges. Once the ballots are counted, we don't know which ones went through what process.)

Bottom line for "throw the whole thing out"? Trump has a tantrum and gets a new election. No thank you!

It is the correct solution for ballots that are observably defective without tracing back to identifying information, like the hanging chads in 2000.

Quote
Many election challenges are being thrown out by judges because they were brought over a variety of long-standing procedures which are apparently only being challenged because the plaintiff didn't like the election outcome.
That's irrelevant. The only people who contest elections are those with skin the game, and you need to have standing to bring a suit, so anyone who does is going to have an investment in changing the outcome. It's an inherent feature of an adversarial legal system. What's needed are clear standards that allow consistent rulings, regardless of who brings the suit.

Um, laches and unclean hands and other forms of sleeping on your rights are highly relevant. Contest an election process you don't like before you find out how the election comes out. The appropriate remedy to ask for and possibly grant is to modify the policy for future elections; that probably doesn't require a judge (except where something is unconstitutional), since the changes can be made by the legislatures or rule-making entities. (Might be particularly difficult if a constitutional requirement blocks a desired reform; the challenge then is to amend the constitution.)

Republicans and the Trump campaign had skin in the game before the election, but didn't challenge many things that were known in advance. They got tossed repeatedly in Pennsylvania for contesting, after this election, something that was voted in a year earlier and used in elections before the general election. Don't reward insincere election challenges brought because they lost. (If you really could find enough fraud to call into question the outcome, then throwing out the election would be appropriate; e.g., that North Carolina congressional district in 2018.)

Reminder: so far, the election challenges have NOT asserted fraud in court, no matter what the trash talk is in press conferences or social media.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 02, 2020, 08:29:53 PM
The people who are suspicious and have questions about the election results are either coddling Trump (to avoid getting fired, attacked, or losing votes in their next election) or are part of the grift, either as perpetrators, unwitting collaborators or marks. Bill Barr says no evidence of sufficient fraud to change anything; Chris Krebs got fired for saying as much. Numerous Republicans stand by the integrity of the election they ran in their state. Many Congressional Republicans privately want Trump to give it up, but won't say so in public.

I'm not employed by Trump or getting any 'grift' from his administration. Neither are all the people polled by Reuters who suspect fraud of some sort.

That makes you one of the unwitting collaborators. Trump spends $3 million in Wisconsin on a recount but pulls in $170 million, mostly not to contest the election but going to whatever Trump's PAC will do next. The lawyers filing the same allegations over and over again are among the grifters, but if any are true believers they may be sacrificing their reputations and bar membership and thus number among the marks. Some of them, like Giuliani, are probably grifting Trump.

In 2016, anyone who gave money to Jill Stein for any recounts were the marks; people who believed there was something to it and encouraged the marks were the unwitting collaborators.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 02, 2020, 08:42:08 PM
The people who are suspicious and have questions about the election results are either coddling Trump (to avoid getting fired, attacked, or losing votes in their next election) or are part of the grift, either as perpetrators, unwitting collaborators or marks. Bill Barr says no evidence of sufficient fraud to change anything; Chris Krebs got fired for saying as much. Numerous Republicans stand by the integrity of the election they ran in their state. Many Congressional Republicans privately want Trump to give it up, but won't say so in public.

I'm not employed by Trump or getting any 'grift' from his administration. Neither are all the people polled by Reuters who suspect fraud of some sort.

That makes you one of the unwitting collaborators. Trump spends $3 million in Wisconsin on a recount but pulls in $170 million, mostly not to contest the election but going to whatever Trump's PAC will do next. The lawyers filing the same allegations over and over again are among the grifters, but if any are true believers they may be sacrificing their reputations and bar membership and thus number among the marks. Some of them, like Giuliani, are probably grifting Trump.

In 2016, anyone who gave money to Jill Stein for any recounts were the marks; people who believed there was something to it and encouraged the marks were the unwitting collaborators.

And Biden was grifting people to donate to his illegitimate "transition team". Lotta unwitting collaborators around.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 02, 2020, 10:29:14 PM
Your only objection to the current President-elect declaration that wouldn't have applied in all the elections since 2000 is that Trump hasn't formally conceded to your satisfaction. And you declared that every news medium daring to use the term as it's always been used is lying. You are very concerned over the voting irregularities in the current election but apparently no other. You've posted questionable stuff from conservative sources in this thread. And yet you are surprised to be thought a right-winger?

Just in this back and forth, you asserted that the media are lying, big and small, from Fox News to the New York Times. Not mistaken, not self-aggrandizing, not following each other sheep-like, not sincerely convinced by the Presidential Transition Act. You said lying. Discrediting the media so universally is very right-wing, and of course the lie they are telling is exactly what Republicans want to be considered a lie.
No Jeff, that's not the only difference. The key difference is the election in 2016 wasn't contested, so none of this came to light. They were wrong then, and they're wrong now. But now they know better, so they're not just mistaken, they're actively lying. Which you should know, since I explicitly made that point the first time I said the media were lying.

And the media lie, that's not fake news. The trend started in the 1990s when many papers shifted to activist reporting, in an attempt to revitalize dwindling circulations. The line between opinion and news was erased and it became even more sensationalized with the move online, and the demands of clickbait journalism. The rise of hyperpartisanship made it even worse, but it's only been the last year or two that I've noticed blatant lies from respectable news sources, like NPR, and the election has made it worse.

And I post stuff from many difference sources, because unlike partisan extremists like you, I actively search out many different perspectives. For instance, look at the sars2 thread, where I've posted links to dozens of <pause for you to gasp in horror> scientific papers.

Your position-less posts just coincidentally support right-wing positions.
No, they really don't. One point contradicted something you believe, and you immediately jumped to the conclusion that I'm right-wing, cherry-picked a few superficial examples you could stretch to support that conclusion, and ignored everything that contradicted it. For instance, have you missed how I said that Biden will almost certainly become President-elect, literally every single time I replied to you? It's not a huge step from that to realizing that I don't care much about this election. It looks like we'll end up with a split Congress. Which we've had under Trump, and would still have even if Trump somehow managed to win a legal victory. Either way, gridlock. And realistically, that's the most I could ever hope for in an election. What I do care about is the election process, which badly needs the attention it's been getting.

Stop being Jeff.

"I think the way we use and words and how we argue" (sic) makes me laugh. Edit your post, Pat, if your words matter that much.
That's just sad.

Republicans are in some cases calling for proportional reductions (i.e., reduce the vote totals of each candidate in proportion to their original vote total based on envelopes challenged - if half the votes were from envelopes that were thrown out, both candidates lose half their votes), going by county level or other subdivision (it would be meaningless on a statewide basis, as the margin would be reduced but the winner would remain the same). But that could lead to gaming the system: if your candidate has minority support in your county or whatever subdivision then you should try to have your signature just good enough to pass the initial verification but to contain a hidden flaw that can be challenged later and statistically remove more votes from your candidate's opponent.
That's a terrible idea. Piecemeal solutions give the judges too much discretion. That's exactly how cronyism/regulatory capture works, and in situations like this would give them an infinite variety of ways to subtly influence the election with impenetrable rationales. Even if we assume most judges try to be fair and impartial, that would create a near irresistible temptation, as well as an avenue for unconscious biases.

What's a terrible idea--what the Republicans request, or the consequence I imagine if it became a common remedy? I'm not advocating either, just pointing out a possible consequence, that it could become another dirty trick if challenges to envelopes succeed when the ballots are no longer associated and so remove effectively random ballots.
"Piecemeal" is a reference to the proportional solutions. Judges should rule on the law, not invent creative new processes.

And I never said you advocated either, I just said it was a terrible idea.

Many election challenges are being thrown out by judges because they were brought over a variety of long-standing procedures which are apparently only being challenged because the plaintiff didn't like the election outcome.
That's irrelevant. The only people who contest elections are those with skin the game, and you need to have standing to bring a suit, so anyone who does is going to have an investment in changing the outcome. It's an inherent feature of an adversarial legal system. What's needed are clear standards that allow consistent rulings, regardless of who brings the suit.

Um, laches and unclean hands and other forms of sleeping on your rights are highly relevant. Contest an election process you don't like before you find out how the election comes out. The appropriate remedy to ask for and possibly grant is to modify the policy for future elections; that probably doesn't require a judge (except where something is unconstitutional), since the changes can be made by the legislatures or rule-making entities. (Might be particularly difficult if a constitutional requirement blocks a desired reform; the challenge then is to amend the constitution.)

Republicans and the Trump campaign had skin in the game before the election, but didn't challenge many things that were known in advance. They got tossed repeatedly in Pennsylvania for contesting, after this election, something that was voted in a year earlier and used in elections before the general election. Don't reward insincere election challenges brought because they lost. (If you really could find enough fraud to call into question the outcome, then throwing out the election would be appropriate; e.g., that North Carolina congressional district in 2018.)

Reminder: so far, the election challenges have NOT asserted fraud in court, no matter what the trash talk is in press conferences or social media.
Laches may be relevant in some of the cases, but not in others. There were some suits that were thrown out before the election, because no harm had occurred yet. You can't argue that you have to wait until after, and then afterwards argue that should have raised the issue before. If it's about changing the rules, then of course that should happen between elections. There are plenty of examples that should be addressed.

But many cases, it's about violating their own rules. Changing election laws by executive fiat, when that's reserved to the legislators. Not giving observers full access. Those kinds of things can't be addressed by procedural changes, because they're violations of existing procedures.

And I've pointed out to many people that none of the lawsuits allege fraud. It's the people who get distracted by Trump's tweets and don't pay attention to the actual cases that get that wrong. Curiously, that's one thing both the left and right seem to have in common: It's the partisans who are fooled, because they hang on Trump's every word in adoration or with rage. It's the people who aren't strongly aligned with one of the two sides who are less likely to be tricked.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 02, 2020, 10:37:02 PM
Greetings!

President Donald J. Trump speaks to America from the White House.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 02, 2020, 11:05:56 PM
Greetings!

I stand with our President. President Trump should have all of the traitors, all of the corrupt poll workers, election officials, politicians--have them all arrested and sent to Guantanamo. Dominion servers need to be seized everywhere, in every state. Suspicious elections need to be fully audited--not merely "recounted." Justice needs to prevail, and a terrible wrath and judgment needs to be poured out without mercy on those that have drank deeply from the wine of treason!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 02, 2020, 11:16:05 PM
Greetings!

I stand with our President. President Trump should have all of the traitors, all of the corrupt poll workers, election officials, politicians--have them all arrested and sent to Guantanamo. Dominion servers need to be seized everywhere, in every state. Suspicious elections need to be fully audited--not merely "recounted." Justice needs to prevail, and a terrible wrath and judgment needs to be poured out without mercy on those that have drank deeply from the wine of treason!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Justice is rarely a unitary executive unilaterally declaring people traitors, and then shipping them off to indefinite detention.

Agree on the audits, though. The recounts were utterly pointless.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 03, 2020, 01:12:09 AM
First they said there was no proof.
We found some proof.
Then they said the proof was fud.
We found more proof.
Then they said 'gimme the numbers'.
We found some numbers.
Now they say: TOO MUCH! TOO MUCH! INFORMATION OVERLOAD!
My reply: Welcome to 2020, where 20/20 is debated!
~~OPTICS~~
===========================================
Since the last post, I've noticed more people here are past debating it, or even RESEARCHING IT! If I've the time to dredge this stuff up from the interwebs, the least an intellectual can do is at least post a counter. AH! No counter to what I'm posting, but still good reactions! The SILENCE is deafening! Must be difficult when potential evidence showing fraud, with actual proofs, to gaslight anyone now. HAH!

Links: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/driving-completed-ballots-ny-pennsylvania-decided-speak-update-usps-contract-truck-driver-transferred-288000-fraudulent-ballots-ny-pa-speaks-presser/
                    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/02/ex-usps-subcontractor-says-colleagues-ordered-to-backdate-ballots/

Synopsis: The Amistad Project said that they have sworn declarations that state over 300,000 ballots are at issue in Arizona, 548,000 in Michigan, 204,000 in Georgia, and over 121,000 in Pennsylvania. They claim that their evidence reveals multi-state illegal efforts by USPS workers to influence the election in at least three of six swing states. This new information was made public at a press conference by the Amistad Project of the Thomas More Society, a national constitutional litigation organization. (Not a Neo-Naht-See organization! Honest!)

What it means: If true, then everyone screaming this was the MOST HONEST ELECTION EVER has been proven wrong. I say, let's see the evidence when it's presented in court!

Link: https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1333999521383079936
                  https://twitter.com/SidneyPowell1/status/1334164586245873666
                  https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/judge-allows-trump-campaign-attorneys-review-tests-clark-county-voting

Synopsis: Dominion Techs were copying data from the voting machines in order to audit (get the current numbers) of the election by using 3rd party software (like Excel) in violation of the law. Dominion machines are also being removed and possibly evidence of fraud destroyed. On Monday, Judge James T. Russell granted a motion from President Trump’s reelect campaign that will allow attorneys for the campaign to inspect a sealed container of test results for the equipment used in the Nov. 3 election. It is unclear whether the attorneys will have access to the actual equipment or just the test results inside the sealed container.

What It means: If a widespread voter fraud scheme is true, then this points to one of the methods used in that scheme. Destruction of  possible evidence is a crime, even if it is circumstantial. This scheme could be uncovered by observing and testing votes and equipment. If there is evidence of fraud here, it is likely it will be assumed elsewhere.

Link: https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2020/12/02/official-doj-will-continue-pursue-all-specific-credible-allegations-2020-election-fraud/
                 https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1333937356185997312

Synopsis: Some media outlets have incorrectly reported that the Department has concluded its investigation of election fraud and announced an affirmative finding of no fraud in the election. That is not what the Associated Press reported nor what the Attorney General stated. The Department will continue to receive and vigorously pursue all specific and credible allegations of fraud as expeditiously as possible.

What It means: The media is not being entirely honest, but may instead operating under MOCKINGBIRD ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird ) conditions. This would be logical, considering the ABSOLUTE control needed during the 'Great (Economic) Reset' - read Agenda 21/2030. The goal is a complete Corporatocracy combined with Technocracy (for the Elites) in which a Communist-Fascist social order is created with every NON-ELITE being tracked and working for Social Credit (the sci-fi CREDITS we heard so much about in fiction). By using the media (controlled by only a few Corporations and Banks) to pit various sides against each other, they can 'ALTER REALITY' as per their magic system beliefs. This would allow foreign operatives under U.N. Peacekeeping guise to round up Conservatives, Traditionalists, Free Thinkers, Christians and Jews for American CONCENTRATION CAMPS without the general population being aware or being shamed into silence/compliance - see BLM/ANTIFA aquiescence by poliice/politicos/retailers/et al. This is the goal of some of the people here who: A) Despise Free Thinking, B) Despise Free Speech, C) Despise Free People, D) Have some sort of fetish for LARPing their love for RPGs, in particular OSR RPGs.

I don't expect people to believe what I say, BUT - I can assure you, those in the know want me dead. Why? Answer is obvious: I've got a big mouth and I REFUSE TO SHUT IT!

Note: Commentary on this thread (as well as others): As we see in this thread about lack of evidence equating to Conspiracy Theories and Covid-19 questions as 'unscientific heresy' by 'TERRORISTS' -- which should throw up a red flag to anyone being honest, since THAT IS THE START OF THE NEW ORDER'S GENOCIDE!) The links provided show circumstancial evidence of this - remember the 'Free Speech Zones' under Obama, and the initial reporting of beatings and rapes? A telltale sign - we are in this together, we are fighting WWIII but because the Mainstream News will not speak the truth... It apparently will not exist until Trump orders REX-84/86 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84 ), AKA JADE HELM, which he WILL DO ( https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-declares-national-emergency-coronavirus || https://iotwreport.com/2020-election-took-place-under-a-trump-declared-national-emergency/ || https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/whats_kraken.html ) - the 'party-hardy' period is OVER guys, and over for good. Therefore, it is imperative to know WHOSE SIDE ARE YOU ON? Choose wisely, either way the camps are all set and ready to go! If you think this isn't about a 'HOSTILE TAKEOVER', then I feel sorry for you. Trump is the closer - the one who is the last President.

So, CHOOSE: A Constitutional North American Republic --OR-- A Stratified Slave-Labor Commu-Facsist Global Governing Council On HUMAN RESOURCE MANAGEMENT AND DISPOSAL.

Unfortunately, I've chosen the THIRD OPTION. But I'm not ready to discuss that here yet.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 03, 2020, 04:16:34 AM
First they said there was no proof.
We found some proof.
Then they said the proof was fud.
We found more proof.
Then they said 'gimme the numbers'.
We found some numbers.
Now they say: TOO MUCH! TOO MUCH! INFORMATION OVERLOAD!
My reply: Welcome to 2020, where 20/20 is debated!
~~OPTICS~~
===========================================
Since the last post, I've noticed more people here are past debating it, or even RESEARCHING IT! If I've the time to dredge this stuff up from the interwebs, the least an intellectual can do is at least post a counter. AH! No counter to what I'm posting, but still good reactions! The SILENCE is deafening! Must be difficult when potential evidence showing fraud, with actual proofs, to gaslight anyone now. HAH!

Links: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/driving-completed-ballots-ny-pennsylvania-decided-speak-update-usps-contract-truck-driver-transferred-288000-fraudulent-ballots-ny-pa-speaks-presser/
                    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/02/ex-usps-subcontractor-says-colleagues-ordered-to-backdate-ballots/

Synopsis: The Amistad Project said that they have sworn declarations that state over 300,000 ballots are at issue in Arizona, 548,000 in Michigan, 204,000 in Georgia, and over 121,000 in Pennsylvania. They claim that their evidence reveals multi-state illegal efforts by USPS workers to influence the election in at least three of six swing states. This new information was made public at a press conference by the Amistad Project of the Thomas More Society, a national constitutional litigation organization. (Not a Neo-Naht-See organization! Honest!)

What it means: If true, then everyone screaming this was the MOST HONEST ELECTION EVER has been proven wrong. I say, let's see the evidence when it's presented in court!

Link: https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1333999521383079936
                  https://twitter.com/SidneyPowell1/status/1334164586245873666
                  https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/judge-allows-trump-campaign-attorneys-review-tests-clark-county-voting

Synopsis: Dominion Techs were copying data from the voting machines in order to audit (get the current numbers) of the election by using 3rd party software (like Excel) in violation of the law. Dominion machines are also being removed and possibly evidence of fraud destroyed. On Monday, Judge James T. Russell granted a motion from President Trump’s reelect campaign that will allow attorneys for the campaign to inspect a sealed container of test results for the equipment used in the Nov. 3 election. It is unclear whether the attorneys will have access to the actual equipment or just the test results inside the sealed container.

What It means: If a widespread voter fraud scheme is true, then this points to one of the methods used in that scheme. Destruction of  possible evidence is a crime, even if it is circumstantial. This scheme could be uncovered by observing and testing votes and equipment. If there is evidence of fraud here, it is likely it will be assumed elsewhere.

Link: https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2020/12/02/official-doj-will-continue-pursue-all-specific-credible-allegations-2020-election-fraud/
                 https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1333937356185997312

Synopsis: Some media outlets have incorrectly reported that the Department has concluded its investigation of election fraud and announced an affirmative finding of no fraud in the election. That is not what the Associated Press reported nor what the Attorney General stated. The Department will continue to receive and vigorously pursue all specific and credible allegations of fraud as expeditiously as possible.

What It means: The media is not being entirely honest, but may instead operating under MOCKINGBIRD ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird ) conditions. This would be logical, considering the ABSOLUTE control needed during the 'Great (Economic) Reset' - read Agenda 21/2030. The goal is a complete Corporatocracy combined with Technocracy (for the Elites) in which a Communist-Fascist social order is created with every NON-ELITE being tracked and working for Social Credit (the sci-fi CREDITS we heard so much about in fiction). By using the media (controlled by only a few Corporations and Banks) to pit various sides against each other, they can 'ALTER REALITY' as per their magic system beliefs. This would allow foreign operatives under U.N. Peacekeeping guise to round up Conservatives, Traditionalists, Free Thinkers, Christians and Jews for American CONCENTRATION CAMPS without the general population being aware or being shamed into silence/compliance - see BLM/ANTIFA aquiescence by poliice/politicos/retailers/et al. This is the goal of some of the people here who: A) Despise Free Thinking, B) Despise Free Speech, C) Despise Free People, D) Have some sort of fetish for LARPing their love for RPGs, in particular OSR RPGs.

I don't expect people to believe what I say, BUT - I can assure you, those in the know want me dead. Why? Answer is obvious: I've got a big mouth and I REFUSE TO SHUT IT!

Note: Commentary on this thread (as well as others): As we see in this thread about lack of evidence equating to Conspiracy Theories and Covid-19 questions as 'unscientific heresy' by 'TERRORISTS' -- which should throw up a red flag to anyone being honest, since THAT IS THE START OF THE NEW ORDER'S GENOCIDE!) The links provided show circumstancial evidence of this - remember the 'Free Speech Zones' under Obama, and the initial reporting of beatings and rapes? A telltale sign - we are in this together, we are fighting WWIII but because the Mainstream News will not speak the truth... It apparently will not exist until Trump orders REX-84/86 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84 ), AKA JADE HELM, which he WILL DO ( https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-declares-national-emergency-coronavirus || https://iotwreport.com/2020-election-took-place-under-a-trump-declared-national-emergency/ || https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/whats_kraken.html ) - the 'party-hardy' period is OVER guys, and over for good. Therefore, it is imperative to know WHOSE SIDE ARE YOU ON? Choose wisely, either way the camps are all set and ready to go! If you think this isn't about a 'HOSTILE TAKEOVER', then I feel sorry for you. Trump is the closer - the one who is the last President.

So, CHOOSE: A Constitutional North American Republic --OR-- A Stratified Slave-Labor Commu-Facsist Global Governing Council On HUMAN RESOURCE MANAGEMENT AND DISPOSAL.

Unfortunately, I've chosen the THIRD OPTION. But I'm not ready to discuss that here yet.

Greetings!

Good stuff, CONSOLCWBY!!!!! Damn right the Marxist Democrat Globalists are in denial. They have virtually the entire MSM running cover for them, as well as pushing full-scale, non-stop propaganda, misinformation and psy-ops campaigns against the American public. Then, we can all see how the Big Tech companies are engaging in censorship, lies, and fraud--all carefully designed to promote Biden, the Democrats, and their Marxist-Globalist narrative--and their globalist agenda--while silencing any kind of opposition, and crushing voices of dissent.

Meanwhile, we have all of these jello-filled, cock-sucking scumbags clapping their hands in glee at the unfolding Marxist takeover of America, furiously fapping themselves into delirium at the vision of traditional America being destroyed.

These traitors have been whispering, and scheming, and working towards this goal for a long time, and especially so since 2016, with the election of Donald J. Trump, where they accelerated their operations as they also went into hysteria. They have been working against America and the "God-Emperor" since the first day he was in office, and have never stopped.

However, the Patriot resistance is growing, day by day, hour by hour, as America sees more evidence of their treason, more evidence of their fraud, hears more testimony of fellow Americans witnessing such fraud and corruption--and the truth is spreading. For the intellectually slow--eye-witness testimony and sworn affidavits are *evidence*. In US courts, people go to prison or have been executed based precisely on such evidence.

Which reminds me, just recently, the "God-Emperor" just authorized the use of firing squads against those found guilty in federal courts.

That is definitely an interesting turn of events! *laughing*

Keep up the good work, consolcwby!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 03, 2020, 06:04:20 AM
Greetings!

Paul Joseph Watson interviews Candace Owens about her successful lawsuit against the Liberal organization, Politifact, and more. Evidence and discussion of how so many of the Liberal media, "fact checker" organizations, are Leftist fronts, and far from being objective, are entirely sold out to the Leftist narrative, and against Conservatives.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 03, 2020, 09:20:45 AM
You're making up fantasies about me.

No, that's jeff37923's thing.
Far as I can tell, the two of you are the same person.

Oh. That is the cruelest thing anyone has ever said to me at this site.

Posted from the burn ward. Thoughts and prayers to jeff37923 at whatever burn ward he might be in.

Quote
You're irrational and insane.

Projection from a right-winger like Pat? Nobody could have anticipated such a thing.
You should talk to your doppelganger Jeff, he thinks I'm a left-winger. You're both idiots.



Ohmigod! It is like when two of your buddies find each other on Match.Com! I am verklempt! I wish only the best for the two of you! Go forth! Get a room and hurry up making some little bambinos! Mazel Tov! Don't forget your fursuits!

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 03, 2020, 09:37:08 AM
Ohmigod! It is like when two of your buddies find each other on Match.Com! I am verklempt! I wish only the best for the two of you! Go forth! Get a room and hurry up making some little bambinos! Mazel Tov! Don't forget your fursuits!
Whatever you say, Rawma.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 03, 2020, 02:22:47 PM
Site video of poll workers pulling suitcases of ballots out from under tables, and processing them, after telling everyone to leave because they were stopping the count

https://twitter.com/nickernation/status/1334568086754701314?s=21
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 03, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Supposedly mailed in absentee ballots in numbered order, missing valid dates, all from sharply limited geographic area, with signatures that looked alike

https://twitter.com/iheartmindy/status/1334586237848457216?s=21
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 03, 2020, 04:12:15 PM
Site video of poll workers pulling suitcases of ballots out from under tables, and processing them, after telling everyone to leave because they were stopping the count

https://twitter.com/nickernation/status/1334568086754701314?s=21
Do you have another source for that video? I get told it no longer exists when I try to follow your link.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 03, 2020, 04:16:03 PM
Site video of poll workers pulling suitcases of ballots out from under tables, and processing them, after telling everyone to leave because they were stopping the count

https://twitter.com/nickernation/status/1334568086754701314?s=21
Do you have another source for that video? I get told it no longer exists when I try to follow your link.

Seems ok to me.  Maybe just blocked in the US?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 03, 2020, 04:34:04 PM

Seems ok to me.  Maybe just blocked in the US?

They removed the whole account just now. I saw the video a few minutes ago, now I get "This Tweet is from an account that no longer exists".
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 03, 2020, 05:20:21 PM
 I feel what lots of people may be missing, is the evidence does not have to rise to a courtroom standard to get something from it.  It has to convince people in the country that they are the correct moral side for the next action.  It will likely do that.  Court does not matter so much.  This is at a point where it can get way out of control fast.  People on the left parroted foreign interference in 2016 and compared trump to hitler.  They are all either liars or cowards, because pretty much none of them did what they should have done to depose a hitler.  I suspect the reality is none of them really thought Russia had anything to do with Trump winning.  I do think there are a good number of right leaning people who do in fact feel something criminal happened here.  This is gasoline and playing with matches over the top of it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 03, 2020, 05:36:04 PM

Seems ok to me.  Maybe just blocked in the US?

They removed the whole account just now. I saw the video a few minutes ago, now I get "This Tweet is from an account that no longer exists".

Yes, looks like it is gone now.

Dont worry though, it was just a video of witnesses giving evidence about election irregularities.

I feel what lots of people may be missing, is the evidence does not have to rise to a courtroom standard to get something from it.  It has to convince people in the country that they are the correct moral side for the next action.  It will likely do that.  Court does not matter so much.  This is at a point where it can get way out of control fast.  People on the left parroted foreign interference in 2016 and compared trump to hitler.  They are all either liars or cowards, because pretty much none of them did what they should have done to depose a hitler.  I suspect the reality is none of them really thought Russia had anything to do with Trump winning.  I do think there are a good number of right leaning people who do in fact feel something criminal happened here.  This is gasoline and playing with matches over the top of it.

Reminds me of Zoolander

(https://i.imgflip.com/222jxw.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 03, 2020, 06:29:49 PM
Yes, looks like it is gone now.

Dont worry though, it was just a video of witnesses giving evidence about election irregularities.

All hail our social media Overlords!

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on December 03, 2020, 06:55:24 PM
US DNI warming you up for a war with China.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-is-national-security-threat-no-1-11607019599
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 03, 2020, 06:57:31 PM
Try this one.  Not quite as sharp because it’s a video of someone recording their TV, but same content, still sharp enough.  Retweeted by a congressman so maybe twitter won’t nuke the account

https://twitter.com/congressmanhice/status/1334609467703521283?s=21

I’ll look for a better one

Edit - also not exactly the same.  Frustrating.  The first one wasn’t split-screen and had more/closer shots of them pulling out the suitcases and taking out the ballots.  It’s excerpts of the GA hearing though, so that cut will probably come around again somewhere

https://twitter.com/cernovich/status/1334573183958020096?s=12

Twitter is censoring this one so hard.  Here’s an alt if the latest one gets nuked too

https://twitter.com/bryan_e_leib/status/1334594567308521478?s=21
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 03, 2020, 07:11:12 PM
However, the Patriot resistance is growing, day by day, hour by hour, as America sees more evidence of their treason, more evidence of their fraud, hears more testimony of fellow Americans witnessing such fraud and corruption--and the truth is spreading. For the intellectually slow--eye-witness testimony and sworn affidavits are *evidence*. In US courts, people go to prison or have been executed based precisely on such evidence.

Eyewitness testimony and sworn affidavits are real evidence, but they depend crucially on supporting factors -- how reliable is this person? Are there multiple witnesses to what they saw? How consistent is their testimony, and can it be backed up by any other affidavits or evidence? Two years ago, I remember arguing full-on exactly this point - when many posters here on this forum were all saying "Sworn affidavits are bullshit! People lie!"

I have watched some of the testimony of Melissa Carone, who was testifying with Rudy Giuliani. Since Giuliani is bringing her forwards personally to court, I would presume she is vetted more reliably than just someone speaking on Twitter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYDe-gy3zAo

At about 25:00 in the video when she is talking to Rep Steven Johnson (a Republican), I thought was particularly telling. Her claim is that the workers just kept entering the same ballots into the machine thousands of times. I think Rep Johnson seemed quite reasonable that multiple entries like this would result in an obvious discrepancy between the machine and the poll counts. She also claims there were zero registered voters in the poll books, which Rep Johnson disputed - and that's a matter of public record which can be checked.

I don't have the full background on this, but it seems like those who are checking her testimony don't find it credible - which matches what an earlier judge found. Of all the ways to cheat, the method described doesn't seem credible. I agree that the courts should decide. It's clear that she *is* being listened to and given opportunity to make her claims, but based on the reactions I'm seeing, I think that the committee is also not finding her testimony credible - the same as an earlier judge.


A telltale sign - we are in this together, we are fighting WWIII but because the Mainstream News will not speak the truth... It apparently will not exist until Trump orders REX-84/86 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84 ), AKA JADE HELM, which he WILL DO ( https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-declares-national-emergency-coronavirus || https://iotwreport.com/2020-election-took-place-under-a-trump-declared-national-emergency/ || https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/whats_kraken.html ) - the 'party-hardy' period is OVER guys, and over for good. Therefore, it is imperative to know WHOSE SIDE ARE YOU ON? Choose wisely, either way the camps are all set and ready to go! If you think this isn't about a 'HOSTILE TAKEOVER', then I feel sorry for you. Trump is the closer - the one who is the last President.

This at least is a concrete prediction which will be proven right within the next two months. I would predict that this does *not* happen. We'll see who is correct.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 03, 2020, 07:28:58 PM
Try this one.  Not quite as sharp because it’s a video of someone recording their TV, but same content, still sharp enough.  Retweeted by a congressman so maybe twitter won’t nuke the account

https://twitter.com/congressmanhice/status/1334609467703521283?s=21


The video itself shows nothing significant without the witness testimony about who this is and what is going on. I can't tell from the video that these are even voting machines and ballots. It's just a bunch of people walking around some cluttered desks. If the testimony about what this represents is true -- and the video is confirmed to be genuine footage of the poll workers, then yes, this is significant and should be prosecuted.

There is more complete video of the testimony here:

https://www.johnscreekpost.com/fraudulent-voting-security-video-of-fulton-county-georgia/

It looks like this was just posted today. I would look forward to hearing about some checks into what is being said.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 03, 2020, 08:09:52 PM
Quote
I think Rep Johnson seemed quite reasonable that multiple entries like this would result in an obvious discrepancy between the machine and the poll counts. She also claims there were zero registered voters in the poll books, which Rep Johnson disputed - and that's a matter of public record which can be checked.

How is the poll count sausage made?  I don't know and couldn't find it online - which isn't to say it isn't there.  But I would be curious if the poll counts are objective, not created or influenced in any way by the same poll workers scanning the ballots.  (or anyone else who could match up the count after the fact)

Also: she didn't say "there were zero registered voters in the poll books".  When she was discussing one aspect of what she saw, she said zero of that particular set of votes were in the poll books, because the voter had to be manually entered into the system (just as is done for provisional ballots). 

Edit - for clarification, the particular votes she was discussing weren't of the provisional type - I believe they were absentee - and so shouldn't have required using the provisional process.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 03, 2020, 08:24:48 PM
Coming from Crowder, this is probably one-sided info, but it sure does not sound good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vjy3rCnmgE
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 03, 2020, 09:13:27 PM
Quote
I think Rep Johnson seemed quite reasonable that multiple entries like this would result in an obvious discrepancy between the machine and the poll counts. She also claims there were zero registered voters in the poll books, which Rep Johnson disputed - and that's a matter of public record which can be checked.

How is the poll count sausage made?  I don't know and couldn't find it online - which isn't to say it isn't there.  But I would be curious if the poll counts are objective, not created or influenced in any way by the same poll workers scanning the ballots.

I don't know for sure in Michigan, but in general, there are a separate set of records of *who* voted which is independent of the counted votes. The count of who voted is done by a separate set of people. In person, it's done by whoever greets the voters and has them sign in or whatever. For mail-in, it's the people who check the postmark and/or signature(s) of the official ballot envelope.

With any secret voting, the people who register the poll books do these are different than the people who count the ballots - because no one is supposed to know which ballot came from which voter.

The poll books are generally open. It's in the permanent public record exactly who the registered voters are and when they voted - the secret part is in how they voted, and no one should know that. So that poll count is very hard to manipulate, since every count has a registered name. If there are fake names on the poll book, they are there to see and verify.

I know in California, I can check on the status of my ballot. If my ballot wasn't received -- or if I see it was received when I didn't send it yet -- then I know that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 03, 2020, 09:33:40 PM
For mail-in, it's the people who check the postmark and/or signature(s) of the official ballot envelope.

This is the part that matters, and why poll counts can't be considered a reliable cross-check.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 03, 2020, 10:00:58 PM
Filed under "big if true" - apparently one dominion machine in GA was taken and analyzed, determined that the machine did in fact flip votes (starting at 52:30 in the video).

https://youtu.be/HwL8EfOt2Ks?t=3149

If it's proven the machines can do it, and it did happen in the one machine analyzed, then all the shady post-election dominion machine scrubbing is even more suspect.  I will be very interested in what comes out of this.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 03, 2020, 10:02:09 PM
Coming from Crowder, this is probably one-sided info, but it sure does not sound good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vjy3rCnmgE
That was interesting (and amusing too).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 03, 2020, 10:08:16 PM
For mail-in, it's the people who check the postmark and/or signature(s) of the official ballot envelope.

This is the part that matters, and why poll counts can't be considered a reliable cross-check.

I don't get what you're saying. Obviously, if enough people working at the polls and counts are all crooked and bent on fraud, then nothing works. Even if I go in person to vote, then the poll workers can just tear up my ballot as soon as I leave and substitute whatever they want. This has nothing to do with mail-in ballots or voting machines. If everyone working the system are blazenly fraudulent, then they can do it.

But this would mean a massively coordinated group involving hundreds of people in all the different disputed districts -- including people appointed or hired by both Democratic and Republican officials. If just *one* of those persons turns, the turncoat could easily have irrefutable evidence on everyone else.


For poll books, there is a list of names in the poll book that add up to everyone who voted for a given district. If there are 30,000 extra votes, then there have to be 30,000 extra names in the poll book. If the fraud-meisters just make up 30,000 names to add, then anyone can check the poll book and confirm that the names listed there aren't actually registered voters.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 03, 2020, 10:32:00 PM
If the hypothetical is that fraud is credibly cross-checked by poll counts, then the sum of the mail-in poll counts must be known and public before the tallying of the ballots by the other election workers starts.

if the poll count is simultaneous with the ballot counting, then it's completely irrelevant as a cross check.  They can come up with whatever poll count number they need at the end.

No, you don't need every single worker to be in on it.  You really only need whoever releases the final total of the local, and the state, poll counts to be in on it (edit - and only a handful of local poll count supervisors - like in the biggest urban areas).  If there's 524 individual poll books, and everyone knows the subtotal of only a portion out of 1 out of 524 local poll books that they reported up to the local poll count supervisor wearing the biden beanie, but takes the subtotal the entirety of the rest of their 1 local book not counted by themselves and also the entirety of the other 523 on faith, that's not some deeply-layered, hard-to-defraud system. 

Yes, we're talking about an what would have to be a massively coordinated  top-down group effort, driven state-by-state.  Have you been paying attention to the last 60 pages of posts?  We know elections are fixed like this all over the world.  It isn't spontaneous, spastic-but-completely-isolated decisions to defraud that give leaders 98% of the vote in large tranches of votes. 

"BUT IT WOULDN'T HAPPEN HERE THIS ISN'T NORTH KOREA".  Sure, it's just a 25 trillion dollar economy that every country in the world has a stake in being ran a certain way. 

Edit 2 - note this type of fraud would allow a legitimate voter to surely be able to look up their mail-in ballot and see that its counted...the fraud is in juicing the poll count to match fake ballots no one is going to look up because that voter is simply dead weight on the poorly-purged voter rolls.  You don't have to screw around with failing to input legitimate voters to juice a poll count.  You do all the legitimate voters legitimately, and then add the juice after. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 03, 2020, 10:39:36 PM
5 days left until safe harbor day. All state election disputes—including court challenges and recounts—must be resolved by that date, in accordance with 3 U.S.C. § 5.

Electors vote Dec 14.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 03, 2020, 10:42:19 PM
Coming from Crowder, this is probably one-sided info, but it sure does not sound good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vjy3rCnmgE

Greetings!

Excellent video, Trond!

I am always amazed by how fraudulent, petty, and disingenuous Liberal Democrats are. Watching the video, the black woman Democrat Representative typically engages in character assassination, innuendo, and screaming like a fucking five year old when she doesn't get her way. When the Chairman requires her to follow order, and rules, and so on, the cunt bitch just continues to fucking lose it. She is constantly loud, shrill, and attempting to emotionally manipulate everyone around her, including the committee board.

All of these cock-sucking Marxists need to be ruthlessly crushed. I hope they get long prison sentences into oblivion for their swarmy, scheming treason, for their lies and deception. These scum are all filthy rats, chewing and whispering and scheming for the downfall of America.

These fucking racist, elitist, snot-nosed scum were the same way when I was in college, and before. Their world view never changes; their attitudes and responses to anyone that doesn't agree with them is always the same. Whether they are 15 and in high school, 22 in college, or 40 years old and in some government bureaucracy or position--they never change who they are. Always hateful, condescending, and petty and shrill when they don't get their way.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 03, 2020, 10:48:34 PM
5 days left until safe harbor day. All state election disputes—including court challenges and recounts—must be resolved by that date, in accordance with 3 U.S.C. § 5.

Electors vote Dec 14.

"HAHAHA we can run out the clock and then its too late to change it even if a majority of people have lost all faith in what happened"

You keep telling people that misty.  It may not turn out as you smugly insist it must.  I'd think people who want Trump to go away would be most keenly interested in the people who support him truly feeling he lost fairly.  But it looks like your side is willing to rest its case on "too late to file" excuses instead.  Works fine for me.  There is always going to be a DAT (day after Trump).  And right now, how people feel about your team if DAT comes sooner than they'd want is...right about where I'd hope it was.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 03, 2020, 10:49:33 PM
And Biden was grifting people to donate to his illegitimate "transition team". Lotta unwitting collaborators around.

Since Biden will become 46th President*, funding his transition does actually serve a real purpose, and the people who support it know that the incoming administration will function better from more preparation (e.g., in the area of vaccine distribution; there are many difficult problems of logistics, prioritization and developing trust, which will fall to Biden since Trump has largely checked out of his job). You seem to think contributing would be OK for a legitimate transition, or you wouldn't have qualified transition; and Biden's transition is legitimate, as recognized by the GSA Administrator appointed by Trump.

By contrast, Trump is soliciting donations supposedly to fight the election results, but most of the donations go to his PAC for future work and his supporters get weak legal cases that are swiftly thrown out (if they don't themselves withdraw them). And Trump doesn't have a good track record when it comes to running a charity legitimately, so the PAC may just fund his personal expenses (like paying fines from his numerous legal difficulties).

* Barring a number of rather unlikely events; the most likely is that Pence briefly becomes 46th and Biden is 47th.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 03, 2020, 10:55:22 PM
Greetings!

Oh, there can't be a powerful, coordinated conspiracy of several hundred people, working over several key states, engaged in orchestrating a fraud to overthrow an election?

That can't happen?

With billions of dollars--trillions even--at stake, multiple companies willing to bankroll and fund activists, spies, and traitors, and whole companies eager to run a media deception game to muzzle the opposition and provide a helpful atmosphere to the principle traitors? That can't happen?

*laughing*

Some people need to get educated on what a "Color Revolution" is, and what it entails.

Oh, that's right...America has sponsored "Color Revolutions" around the world--Ukraine, Libya, Syria, and more. America is very good at unleashing Color Revolutions.

The Democrats have been resisting President Trump from day one. Every day, every week, every month, for four years they have engaged in resistance, lies, deception, fraud and corruption, all designed to defeat President Trump.

But somehow, in the 2020 Presidential Elections, these same unhinged, Marxist Democrats would never engage in fraud and corruption to steal an election?

We have seen the Democrats lie, scream, and seek to defraud America for four years. The 2020 Election is no exception. They are guilty as fuck, and the majority of America knows it!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 03, 2020, 11:02:35 PM
If the hypothetical is that fraud is credibly cross-checked by poll counts, then the sum of the mail-in poll counts must be known and public before the tallying of the ballots by the other election workers starts.

if the poll count is simultaneous with the ballot counting, then it's completely irrelevant as a cross check.  They can come up with whatever poll count number they need at the end.

No, you don't need every single worker to be in on it.  You really only need whoever releases the final total of the local, and the state, poll counts to be in on it (edit - and only a handful of local poll count supervisors - like in the biggest urban areas).  If there's 524 individual poll books, and everyone knows the subtotal of only a portion out of 1 out of 524 local poll books that they reported up to the local poll count supervisor wearing the biden beanie, but takes the subtotal the entirety of the rest of their 1 local book not counted by themselves and also the entirety of the other 523 on faith, that's not some deeply-layered, hard-to-defraud system. 

Yes, we're talking about an what would have to be a massively coordinated  top-down group effort, driven state-by-state.  Have you been paying attention to the last 60 pages of posts?  We know elections are fixed like this all over the world.  It isn't spontaneous, spastic-but-completely-isolated decisions to defraud that give leaders 98% of the vote in large tranches of votes. 

"BUT IT WOULDN'T HAPPEN HERE THIS ISN'T NORTH KOREA".  Sure, it's just a 25 trillion dollar economy that every country in the world has a stake in being ran a certain way. 

Edit 2 - note this type of fraud would allow a legitimate voter to surely be able to look up their mail-in ballot and see that its counted...the fraud is in juicing the poll count to match fake ballots no one is going to look up because that voter is simply dead weight on the poorly-purged voter rolls.  You don't have to screw around with failing to input legitimate voters to juice a poll count.  You do all the legitimate voters legitimately, and then add the juice after.
Also, all you really need is one person placed into a position of authority , and approx. 65-87% of the population  would do as told (agentic state). This is why whistleblowers testimony is important - as well as hearings to vet them. For more info, see: https://www.simplypsychology.org/milgram.html
(On a side note, people being ordered to shelter at home due to covid has some with pre-existing mental disorders to experience https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/anxiety-another-name-pain/202001/dashed-hopes-the-pit-despair ).

All of this is designed to disintegrate the will to fight against the powers that be.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 03, 2020, 11:42:46 PM
First they said there was no proof.
---snippp---
Which reminds me, just recently, the "God-Emperor" just authorized the use of firing squads against those found guilty in federal courts.

That is definitely an interesting turn of events! *laughing*

Keep up the good work, consolcwby!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
@SHARK,
Thanks brother! You keep it up as well! Don't let them breathe! The TRUTH sets ALL FREE!
Those who have eyes to see know it's 2020!
----------
@EVERYONE,
I'm placing this stuff here, since I'm still researching these I have no commentary yet:
https://twitter.com/TrueCanuck11/status/1334306490392465409
https://twitter.com/MajorPatriot/status/1334303711208894464
https://twitter.com/merissahamilton/status/1334244578405150720
https://twitter.com/PhillDKline/status/1334480215653969923
https://twitter.com/TeamTrump/status/1334566301205925889

JEAN DIXON MOVE OVER! IT'S SHOCKING AND AMAZING PREDICTION TIME!
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1334463159952756736
Quote
Related, if there were to exist the situation at noon on January 20 of two simultaneous claims to the status of commander-in-chief—one from previously incumbent president claiming to have been declared re-elected by the outgoing vice president, and the other from the Speaker of the House claiming to assume the status of acting president given the House’s declaration that there is no president-elect because the electoral count remains disputed and incomplete—do military officials, including those responsible for control of nuclear weapons, wishing to obey the lawful commander-in-chief know how to decide who is the lawful commanderin-chief?
Mr Kim may not know it, but it may take a full 6 MONTHS from now, not 2 like he stated. Let's see if Nostrodamus is correct on this...

MR NOSTRODAMUS SAYS:
Military Intelligence versus FBI CIA NSA - No approval or congressional oversight? State Secrets upheld under Supreme Court - Who is the Commander and Chief of the military? Under what article can the President impose Millitary Intelligence take over investigations for the 3 letter agencies? What conditions must present itself? Why is this so VERY important? Who surrounds Trump? Democrats & The Deep Swamp lost this very important power _ the one area of the govt not corrupt and directly serves POTUS.

I SAY:
Military Intelligence has the most access to mined data and classified information. They have the best information gathering tools, They also have more power in general and are devoted to the constitution. MI can take over the investigations for the other three in cases of high treason.
No approval or congressional oversight at all. See: https://www.scribd.com/document/41747792/State-Secrets-and-the-Supreme-Court
MI does not answer to Congress, has the most access to mined data and classified information. They have the best information gathering tools, They also have more power in general and are devoted to the constitution. MI can take over the investigations for the other three in cases of high treason. The State Secrets Act was upheld in the Supreme Court United States v. Reynolds, 345 U.S. 1 (1953) acknowledging the right of the government to exclude evidence in a trial that may harm National Security. The President is the Commander in Chief of the Military and the Chief of Staff is Gen. John Kelly, a Marine. The President can use military (& National Guard) as police force in the event of terrorist act, natural disasters and disorder that state police cannot contain.

What could instigate all this, besides the Election? Take a gander: https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1334532607313317889 || Take a goose: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2qIXXafxCQ
So, what did YOU take?
The gander?
The goose?
Neither?
Both?
Greedy bastards! ;D
----------
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 04, 2020, 12:20:21 AM
Your only objection to the current President-elect declaration that wouldn't have applied in all the elections since 2000 is that Trump hasn't formally conceded to your satisfaction. And you declared that every news medium daring to use the term as it's always been used is lying.
not the only difference.

Yes, it is. Every previous election since the Presidential Transition Act was passed has worked like this one, except for 2000 where the result in Florida and therefore the Electoral College was legitimately uncertain. The loser does not dictate who the President-elect is, no matter how many pointless recounts are demanded, although as in the present case it can be delayed for weeks by tantrums from a losing incumbent.

How can I know Pat is pushing a right-wing perspective, just from the posts I'm replying to? Count the right-wing touchstones:
Pat continues to make dishonest, disingenuous arguments, so I'll take the disavowals and denials with ample salt, thank you very much. That jeff37923 mistakes Pat for a left-winger just reflects that jeff37923 is stupid. Why so invested in this election discussion if you have no opinion, Pat, except impartial procedural quibbles that coincidentally align with right-wing interests?

Moving on from talking to Pat...

I will acknowledge that Pat could be some sort of anarchist simply rooting for more chaos; Spinachcat used to pretend to be that kind of unconcern troll, and it seems to be Shasarak's persona. I don't see any value in speculating on whether Pat who walks and sounds like a duck is actually a duck or merely cosplaying a duck, and even less value in taking the duck's word for it.

One remarkable thing at this site is that, while I'm socially and economically liberal, I'm not a Social Justice Warrior or a Marxist or any of the things that idiots on this forum try to label me. I'm a Democrat but no partisan extremist as Pat claims; I've always favored the more centrist and mainstream Democratic candidate from early in the primaries, since 1980. I've criticized jhkim in this very thread; I cannot say whether jhkim is more or less left-wing than me, but I can respect him whether I agree or not. EOTB is clinging to thin straws but is honest enough to abandon debunked talking points and not to pretend the thin straws are two by fours, so I can respect him too even as I almost always disagree (still thinking about that Insurrection Act article).

I am honestly delighted with the outcome of this election, and even the attempts to damage the country in denial of Trump's defeat do not spoil my happiness. Joe Biden is the first President-elect I've actually liked as a person, because he actually has empathy for people. Any of you can claim it's an act; apparently you can simultaneously believe that he's senile, the best debater in modern politics, a walking gaffe machine and a consummate actor who never breaks character. (I guess the practice believing that Obama was a Muslim, an atheist and a radical black Christian all at the same time paid off.)

I recommend visiting https://buildbackbetter.gov/ if only to see if you can find something to complain about, but maybe you can find something positive, no matter how small. At the very least try to tone down the rhetoric about killing people, as the Republican election official in Georgia asked; aside from that one crazy Bernie supporter, that didn't come from any of the people who voted (in greater numbers) against Trump in 2016, and Biden as a former Vice President and Senator does not represent nearly the same risk or uncertainty.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 04, 2020, 01:00:51 AM
If the hypothetical is that fraud is credibly cross-checked by poll counts, then the sum of the mail-in poll counts must be known and public before the tallying of the ballots by the other election workers starts.

if the poll count is simultaneous with the ballot counting, then it's completely irrelevant as a cross check.  They can come up with whatever poll count number they need at
the end.
Edit 2 - note this type of fraud would allow a legitimate voter to surely be able to look up their mail-in ballot and see that its counted...the fraud is in juicing the poll count to match fake ballots no one is going to look up because that voter is simply dead weight on the poorly-purged voter rolls.  You don't have to screw around with failing to input legitimate voters to juice a poll count.  You do all the legitimate voters legitimately, and then add the juice after.

You claim "no one is going to look up" -- but yes, people can and do look this up -- especially the people whose job it is, like observers and workers in the local race. Every county has dozens of poll workers, including observers from both major parties. Again, the poll count is permanent public record. Yeah, I'll buy that someone can slip in a few names without getting caught because there are always a few errors. But adding in thousands of names into a precinct or county list? I don't buy that no one will catch that, especially given the scrutiny given this year.

The poll counts aren't like the secret ballot counts that are restricted access. They're clear public record, and lots of people can and do view them.


No, you don't need every single worker to be in on it.  You really only need whoever releases the final total of the local, and the state, poll counts to be in on it (edit - and only a handful of local poll count supervisors - like in the biggest urban areas).  If there's 524 individual poll books, and everyone knows the subtotal of only a portion out of 1 out of 524 local poll books that they reported up to the local poll count supervisor wearing the biden beanie, but takes the subtotal the entirety of the rest of their 1 local book not counted by themselves and also the entirety of the other 523 on faith, that's not some deeply-layered, hard-to-defraud system.

Many if not most states report on a precinct level, not on a county level. So, for example, you can go here for the county-level results from Georgia.

https://results.enr.clarityelections.com/GA/105369/web.264614/#/reporting

There's 159 counties in Texas, and each are counted and reported individually. And it's not just one person reporting for a given county - there are multiple people working together who verify that their count is correct. So that would require 500 people. (If you go to the right side of the page, you can download county level data.) But counties also produce precinct level reports. So, for example, you can go into detail on Seminole County, and get the breakdown of each precinct.

https://results.enr.clarityelections.com/GA/Seminole/91765/Web02.221448/#/

Again, there's precinct-level data that can be downloaded on the right. There are thousands of precincts which are individually reported. Each of those precincts has multiple officials who have verified the total for that precinct. And there are separate public poll counts and secret ballot counts. And yes, there are people who download and examine that data.

That's not just a handful of people who would have to be in on the secret fraud plan. And we are letting anyone who claims to be a whistleblower to have their day in court, and give their testimony covered in public hearings.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 04, 2020, 01:21:46 AM
Greetings!

Hodgetwins have the video of Democrats bringing out suitcases of hidden ballots--after ensuring that GOP Poll watchers and media were sent home. The votes were then added in secret in the middle of the night, after telling the GOP and Media that the vote counting was stopped.

We all know though that the filthy lying Liberal Democrats will cry that even video evidence is "Not substantial evidence!"

All the phony ballots need to be thrown the fuck out. Massive voting audits need to be done throughout the contested states.

And the lying, traitor Democrats need to be arrested and hung. All of these clerks and election flunkies and officials, yeah, they get hammered, too.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 04, 2020, 01:50:07 AM
Greetings!

Hodgetwins have the video of Democrats bringing out suitcases of hidden ballots--after ensuring that GOP Poll watchers and media were sent home. The votes were then added in secret in the middle of the night, after telling the GOP and Media that the vote counting was stopped.

We all know though that the filthy lying Liberal Democrats will cry that even video evidence is "Not substantial evidence!"

All the phony ballots need to be thrown the fuck out. Massive voting audits need to be done throughout the contested states.

And the lying, traitor Democrats need to be arrested and hung. All of these clerks and election flunkies and officials, yeah, they get hammered, too.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

-snip-
Shush! You'll upset the 'MODERATE LEFT-LEANING COMPASSIONATES' here! Never discuss facts! It's ILLEGAL UNDER A HARRIS ADMINISTRATION!
Proof they are compassionate: https://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/terence-p-jeffrey/kamala-harris-crusade-against-freedom-religion
Proof they just want to be friends: https://stop007.org/home/death-camp-program/#Agenda21
Proof they are moral and ethical: https://bolenreport.com/saul-alinskys-12-rules-radicals/

Remember: Never let facts get in the way of a good story (or Narrative).
These people are evil, intolerant, and are the army of the antichrist: https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/11/22/klingenschmitt-under-biden-there-will-be-an-atheist-army-for-the-antichrist/
They are also STUPID. They think BORAT is a documentary. They don't realize that our MONEY through the FEDERAL RESERVE's FRAUDULENT PRACTICES, was used to create THIS: https://www.exutopia.com/dark-tourism-illuminati-capital/

------------------
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 04, 2020, 03:05:20 AM
If the hypothetical is that fraud is credibly cross-checked by poll counts, then the sum of the mail-in poll counts must be known and public before the tallying of the ballots by the other election workers starts.

if the poll count is simultaneous with the ballot counting, then it's completely irrelevant as a cross check.  They can come up with whatever poll count number they need at
the end.
Edit 2 - note this type of fraud would allow a legitimate voter to surely be able to look up their mail-in ballot and see that its counted...the fraud is in juicing the poll count to match fake ballots no one is going to look up because that voter is simply dead weight on the poorly-purged voter rolls.  You don't have to screw around with failing to input legitimate voters to juice a poll count.  You do all the legitimate voters legitimately, and then add the juice after.

You claim "no one is going to look up" -- but yes, people can and do look this up -- especially the people whose job it is, like observers and workers in the local race. Every county has dozens of poll workers, including observers from both major parties. Again, the poll count is permanent public record. Yeah, I'll buy that someone can slip in a few names without getting caught because there are always a few errors. But adding in thousands of names into a precinct or county list? I don't buy that no one will catch that, especially given the scrutiny given this year.

The poll counts aren't like the secret ballot counts that are restricted access. They're clear public record, and lots of people can and do view them.


No, you don't need every single worker to be in on it.  You really only need whoever releases the final total of the local, and the state, poll counts to be in on it (edit - and only a handful of local poll count supervisors - like in the biggest urban areas).  If there's 524 individual poll books, and everyone knows the subtotal of only a portion out of 1 out of 524 local poll books that they reported up to the local poll count supervisor wearing the biden beanie, but takes the subtotal the entirety of the rest of their 1 local book not counted by themselves and also the entirety of the other 523 on faith, that's not some deeply-layered, hard-to-defraud system.

Many if not most states report on a precinct level, not on a county level. So, for example, you can go here for the county-level results from Georgia.

https://results.enr.clarityelections.com/GA/105369/web.264614/#/reporting

There's 159 counties in Texas, and each are counted and reported individually. And it's not just one person reporting for a given county - there are multiple people working together who verify that their count is correct. So that would require 500 people. (If you go to the right side of the page, you can download county level data.) But counties also produce precinct level reports. So, for example, you can go into detail on Seminole County, and get the breakdown of each precinct.

https://results.enr.clarityelections.com/GA/Seminole/91765/Web02.221448/#/

Again, there's precinct-level data that can be downloaded on the right. There are thousands of precincts which are individually reported. Each of those precincts has multiple officials who have verified the total for that precinct. And there are separate public poll counts and secret ballot counts. And yes, there are people who download and examine that data.

That's not just a handful of people who would have to be in on the secret fraud plan. And we are letting anyone who claims to be a whistleblower to have their day in court, and give their testimony covered in public hearings.

You wouldn't have to add names to the voter roll that weren't on it and haven't been on it for some time.  You use names that are already on the voter roll.  "Yep we received a vote from Malcom Y.  Add him to the poll roll".  Malcom Y isn't *actually* voting and hasn't voted for a long time for various reasons (even though a ballot comes in from him every election) but his name is still registered to vote so nothing looks out of sorts when a ballot is received from Malcom, unless someone goes back and checks every name on the roll, cross-referencing the names to stuff like obituaries, postal address changes, legal name changes, etc.  Which is happening this election, but doesn't usually...

We know we've had corruption in our elections for decades.  Not on a handful-of-votes scale, but "how many voters do you need in Chicago, John Kennedy - we'll come in last and make sure its enough" scale.  Let's not pretend that "oh its just a matter of cross-checking names on a spreadsheet and the fraud stands out like a sore thumb."  Urban dem machines have done this all along, it's just on an entirely different scale this time because 4 more years of Trump simply can't be allowed.

EDIT - also, in a state like GA where the difference is less than 1% of the vote, you could make up a lot of that ground just by ... running mail in votes "rejected" for stuff like lack of date, missing a sig on the outside envelope, etc., through the machine in the middle of the night after the poll watchers go home and no one's watching.  Voila: the "rejected" vote is un-rejected by the same people responsible for recording its rejection.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 04, 2020, 03:18:09 AM
Yes, it is.
No, it's not, for all the reasons I spelled out.

How can I know Pat is pushing a right-wing perspective, just from the posts I'm replying to?
I'm a Democrat but no partisan extremist as Pat claims
You're a partisan extremist because you immediately label anyone who disagrees with you as belonging to the other side of the political axis that that defines your simplistic, binary worldview. Even if you have to listen to dogwhistles nobody else can hear and ignore more than half of what they said, to make the label fit.

Classic Jeff.

[talk about how I (Pat) favor a split Congress, regardless of which party holds the presidency]

I will acknowledge that Pat could be some sort of anarchist simply rooting for more chaos;
If you're A, and you admit someone else could be either B or C, then why are you insisting they're B? Especially since you're talking about a person, who has told you repeatedly they're not B, and gave examples why B doesn't fit. In addition, it requires a real contortion of logic to assume that someone who favors the hobbling of both A and B really supports B. Or that someone who supports limiting both A and B must be a disciple of Eris (C), because you can't conceive of an alphabet with more than 3 letters.

If you were more honest, you'd just address what I said, instead of falsely pigeonholing me.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 04, 2020, 05:06:17 AM
You claim "no one is going to look up" -- but yes, people can and do look this up -- especially the people whose job it is, like observers and workers in the local race. Every county has dozens of poll workers, including observers from both major parties. Again, the poll count is permanent public record. Yeah, I'll buy that someone can slip in a few names without getting caught because there are always a few errors. But adding in thousands of names into a precinct or county list? I don't buy that no one will catch that, especially given the scrutiny given this year.
You wouldn't have to add names to the voter roll that weren't on it and haven't been on it for some time.  You use names that are already on the voter roll.  "Yep we received a vote from Malcom Y.  Add him to the poll roll".  Malcom Y isn't *actually* voting and hasn't voted for a long time for various reasons (even though a ballot comes in from him every election) but his name is still registered to vote so nothing looks out of sorts when a ballot is received from Malcom, unless someone goes back and checks every name on the roll, cross-referencing the names to stuff like obituaries, postal address changes, legal name changes, etc.  Which is happening this election, but doesn't usually...

But as you just said, there *are* people checking it in this election. And when it happens on the public record, it is indelible proof - a dead person can't vote, or the non-voting person can prove that they didn't vote as claimed. If there really were hundreds of thousands of manufactured votes in this fashion, then these searches should be turning up at least hundreds of examples. For example, there have been a lot of claims about dead people voting in this election -- Tucker Carlson singled out one case in particular, saying "No one quite embodies that story like James Blalock". But shortly after this, Tucker Carlson issued an on-air apology because his prime example was false.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/525980-tucker-carlson-issues-on-air-apology-over-georgia-voter-claims

And there have been examples of trying this - like the Pennsylvania Republican man arrested after trying to sign his dead mother to vote.

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/10/pa-man-accused-of-trying-to-sign-his-dead-mother-up-for-mail-in-voting.html

I'm sure that there are some more genuine cases of this sort of fraud which haven't been caught. But after the massive scrutiny going on, Carlson couldn't bring up even a single clear example of this. That doesn't line up with there being hundreds of thousands of cases there available on public record.


We know we've had corruption in our elections for decades.  Not on a handful-of-votes scale, but "how many voters do you need in Chicago, John Kennedy - we'll come in last and make sure its enough" scale.  Let's not pretend that "oh its just a matter of cross-checking names on a spreadsheet and the fraud stands out like a sore thumb."  Urban dem machines have done this all along, it's just on an entirely different scale this time because 4 more years of Trump simply can't be allowed.

No, I don't accept this. There are dozens of cases of fraud which are caught each year. The Heritage Foundation has a database of 1302 cases of proven fraud spread over many elections, leading to 1125 criminal convictions.

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

And yes, a lot of these cases are indeed urban Democrats. That doesn't suggest to me that they are acting with impunity. These cases were caught and prosecuted because the checks worked. I'm not claiming it's foolproof, but it is at least capable of working.


EDIT - also, in a state like GA where the difference is less than 1% of the vote, you could make up a lot of that ground just by ... running mail in votes "rejected" for stuff like lack of date, missing a sig on the outside envelope, etc., through the machine in the middle of the night after the poll watchers go home and no one's watching.  Voila: the "rejected" vote is un-rejected by the same people responsible for recording its rejection.

If the envelopes were rejected at all, then the poll count would have marked those voters as not voting. And again, the poll count is public record. In any secret ballot system, the people who are counting up the ballots won't be the same as the ones checking signatures -- because the whole point of the process is that no one should know which signature goes with which ballot.

Now, as I said before, if you presume enough people in the system all intent on fraud -- then yeah, the envelope checkers could conspire with the ballot-counters, and have some system to throw off the count. But again, this counting is happening across thousands of precincts. Each one is only responsible for a small fraction of the rejected ballots. To collect up over 12,000 such votes (the margin in Georgia), it would take a lot of people in on the plan, and if any one of them loses his nerve, he could rat out the others with ironclad proof. And the other battleground states have larger margins - like 150,000 votes in Michigan.

To be clear, we should definitely investigate if this has happened. The various claims should be followed up on in court, and investigated. If there really is fraud happening, then I think the courts have a good chance to catch it. I think uncatchable criminal masterminds are mostly the stuff of movies, not reality. When I look at government-managed operations like Watergate or the Bay of Pigs and others, they're full of mistakes.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 04, 2020, 07:43:33 AM
Greetings!

Hodgetwins have the video of Democrats bringing out suitcases of hidden ballots--after ensuring that GOP Poll watchers and media were sent home. The votes were then added in secret in the middle of the night, after telling the GOP and Media that the vote counting was stopped.

We all know though that the filthy lying Liberal Democrats will cry that even video evidence is "Not substantial evidence!"

All the phony ballots need to be thrown the fuck out. Massive voting audits need to be done throughout the contested states.

And the lying, traitor Democrats need to be arrested and hung. All of these clerks and election flunkies and officials, yeah, they get hammered, too.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


I will agree that there is a strong appearance of improper conduct. Everywhere I've ever worked, the basic idea was that "if it looks improper, then treat it as improper" so as to stay above suspicion. They have failed on this point, yet that sadly seems common enough in politics.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 04, 2020, 07:45:59 AM

You're a poster on theRPGsite because you immediately label anyone who disagrees with you as belonging to the other side of the political axis that that defines your simplistic, binary worldview. Even if you have to listen to dogwhistles nobody else can hear and ignore more than half of what they said, to make the label fit.

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 04, 2020, 09:33:43 AM
Greetings!

Hodgetwins have the video of Democrats bringing out suitcases of hidden ballots--after ensuring that GOP Poll watchers and media were sent home. The votes were then added in secret in the middle of the night, after telling the GOP and Media that the vote counting was stopped.

We all know though that the filthy lying Liberal Democrats will cry that even video evidence is "Not substantial evidence!"

All the phony ballots need to be thrown the fuck out. Massive voting audits need to be done throughout the contested states.

And the lying, traitor Democrats need to be arrested and hung. All of these clerks and election flunkies and officials, yeah, they get hammered, too.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


I will agree that there is a strong appearance of improper conduct. Everywhere I've ever worked, the basic idea was that "if it looks improper, then treat it as improper" so as to stay above suspicion. They have failed on this point, yet that sadly seems common enough in politics.

Greetings!

Damn right it looks improper. I also understand that the Democrats here in the video that are processing ballots? That is absolutely against the law, and hugely against all the known regulations. Such unethical and criminal actions will get every one of these people in prison. It is monstrous.

If this election had this level of corruption, fraud, and duplicity being committed by Republicans--damn right they would need to go to prison as well. All of this is so horrifying and terrible. It should enrage every American citizen. As you mention, corruption is pretty ordinary in politics, even our own. I have in the past proudly defended the United States elections to my friends, family, work colleagues and such, as well as friends that are foreign immigrants. Foreign born friends often lament the huge, systemic and tragic corruption and fraud in their home countries, and skeptically doubted that America was any better--just better at hiding it.

I said "No, no. America works hard at keeping our elections free and fair. Americans historically cherish honesty, integrity, and fairness. Our election trustworthiness is sacred!"

Now, sadly, I am coming around to seeing that we have become a nation covered in shit. "The Emperor has no clothes!" We have become a fucking banana republic, wallowing in shit. All the world looks upon us with horror, shame, and mockery.

Fucking unbelievable. This is all a reflection of the goddamned TDS--Trump Derangement Syndrome. These cock-sucking corrupt fucking Democrats have swallowed the fucking Marxist Kool-Aid and think they are fighting against fucking Hitler and the Nazis, therefore they can proceed to force their victory "By Any Means Necessary!"

Geesus. This is so sad. The TRUTH is coming out.

An interesting aside, though not unsurprising. The MSM has been utterly silent on this video, and has ignored it.

That is why more and more people are tuning in to alternative media, and absolutely do not trust MSM at all, and laugh at them. In alternative media, this video is *everywhere*.

The Democrats are going to burn for this. This will open the gates to more investigations, and as the hot lamps are brought overhead of the people involved, they will squeal. They will fucking sing, and more and more Democrats--lawyers, tech people, judges, officials, and politicians are all going to burn for this. I also continue to hear that a good number of corrupt Republicans may be guilty as well of cooperating with various Democrats to subvert this election with such fraud and corruption. They are such greedy fuckers. I hope they have plenty of oil in the frying pan for them all.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 04, 2020, 11:43:50 AM
Greetings!

Here is a video of the powerful rally held in Georgia, hosted by attorney Lin Wood, Sidney Powell, and Representative Vernon Jones.

Amazing rally!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 04, 2020, 11:55:02 AM
5 days left until safe harbor day. All state election disputes—including court challenges and recounts—must be resolved by that date, in accordance with 3 U.S.C. § 5.

Electors vote Dec 14.

"HAHAHA we can run out the clock and then its too late to change it even if a majority of people have lost all faith in what happened"

You keep telling people that misty.  It may not turn out as you smugly insist it must.  I'd think people who want Trump to go away would be most keenly interested in the people who support him truly feeling he lost fairly.  But it looks like your side is willing to rest its case on "too late to file" excuses instead.  Works fine for me.  There is always going to be a DAT (day after Trump).  And right now, how people feel about your team if DAT comes sooner than they'd want is...right about where I'd hope it was.

There is nothing which can convince the "Election was stolen" people that it was a legit election in any reasonable time (years). It's based on crazy conspiracy theories which can neither be proven nor disproved. It's like Kennedy assassination theories, or Templar Knights/Illuminati theories.

But as a nation of laws, we have a law as to when these things must be resolved so we have certainty and closure on elections. So that we don't run our nation based on the extremist conspiracy theories, or else we would never complete any close election.

Again - I saw these same arguments in 2004 from the crazy left. And they REALLY WERE the identical arguments except the name of the company which made the voting machines was Diebold rather than Dominion that time. Same exact flawed statistical arguments. Say exact averaging of voter registrations vs. cast votes without taking into account normal differences in those numbers which happen ever election, like voters casting votes in the next door precinct or unofficial vote counts being used as official vote counts. Same wild unproven claims about extra ballots being cast. Even same kinds of videos at the time (though fewer as fewer people had cameras). None of that held up when courts actually examined the claims either.

None of the cases are going anywhere this time either, despite the conspiracy theory people pretending they are. The most "It's Proof!" claims and affidavits mentioned here are not even being raised to the courts because the party knows they were bullshit. The Supreme Court is not going to rescue Trump like the conspiracy theory people think they are.

So yeah, I am happy in 4 days this may be settled by the law. Because it can never settle according to wild conspiracy theorists. I am sure there are still some on the crazy left who claim the 2004 election was stolen by Bush. And you guys will be classified just like them in the minds of most people - nutters unable to deal with the cognitive dissonance that their faith-like beliefs in how the election would go (based on the people they know) doesn't match how people actually voted.

That's OK though, you can lash out at me with your personal attacks for me calling it like it is. I understand it's painful to have your faith shattered. You do you, in dealing with that grief. The first stages of denial and anger are all yours right now.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 04, 2020, 01:31:48 PM
Greetings!

Hodgetwins have the video of Democrats bringing out suitcases of hidden ballots--after ensuring that GOP Poll watchers and media were sent home. The votes were then added in secret in the middle of the night, after telling the GOP and Media that the vote counting was stopped.

We all know though that the filthy lying Liberal Democrats will cry that even video evidence is "Not substantial evidence!"

All the phony ballots need to be thrown the fuck out. Massive voting audits need to be done throughout the contested states.

And the lying, traitor Democrats need to be arrested and hung. All of these clerks and election flunkies and officials, yeah, they get hammered, too.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


I will agree that there is a strong appearance of improper conduct. Everywhere I've ever worked, the basic idea was that "if it looks improper, then treat it as improper" so as to stay above suspicion. They have failed on this point, yet that sadly seems common enough in politics.

Greetings!

Damn right it looks improper. I also understand that the Democrats here in the video that are processing ballots? That is absolutely against the law, and hugely against all the known regulations. Such unethical and criminal actions will get every one of these people in prison. It is monstrous.

If this election had this level of corruption, fraud, and duplicity being committed by Republicans--damn right they would need to go to prison as well. All of this is so horrifying and terrible. It should enrage every American citizen. As you mention, corruption is pretty ordinary in politics, even our own. I have in the past proudly defended the United States elections to my friends, family, work colleagues and such, as well as friends that are foreign immigrants. Foreign born friends often lament the huge, systemic and tragic corruption and fraud in their home countries, and skeptically doubted that America was any better--just better at hiding it.

I said "No, no. America works hard at keeping our elections free and fair. Americans historically cherish honesty, integrity, and fairness. Our election trustworthiness is sacred!"

Now, sadly, I am coming around to seeing that we have become a nation covered in shit. "The Emperor has no clothes!" We have become a fucking banana republic, wallowing in shit. All the world looks upon us with horror, shame, and mockery.

Fucking unbelievable. This is all a reflection of the goddamned TDS--Trump Derangement Syndrome. These cock-sucking corrupt fucking Democrats have swallowed the fucking Marxist Kool-Aid and think they are fighting against fucking Hitler and the Nazis, therefore they can proceed to force their victory "By Any Means Necessary!"

Geesus. This is so sad. The TRUTH is coming out.

An interesting aside, though not unsurprising. The MSM has been utterly silent on this video, and has ignored it.

That is why more and more people are tuning in to alternative media, and absolutely do not trust MSM at all, and laugh at them. In alternative media, this video is *everywhere*.

The Democrats are going to burn for this. This will open the gates to more investigations, and as the hot lamps are brought overhead of the people involved, they will squeal. They will fucking sing, and more and more Democrats--lawyers, tech people, judges, officials, and politicians are all going to burn for this. I also continue to hear that a good number of corrupt Republicans may be guilty as well of cooperating with various Democrats to subvert this election with such fraud and corruption. They are such greedy fuckers. I hope they have plenty of oil in the frying pan for them all.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The MSM is ignoring these claims the same way it ignores flat Earthers, because both are bullshit. The media isn't required to report lies and disinfo campaigns. With regard to the video in question, it has been debunked by  Republican election officials in Georgia. Here's an article about from a UK source:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/georgia-suitcase-video-ballots-trump-b1766363.html

If you schlubs would, I dunno, do a little research instead of spraying your shorts while you copy/paste THE TOTALLY SMOKING GUN THIS TIME I SWEAR YOU GUISE SRS, you'd see for yourself how laughable this all is.

And, in any event. most, if not all, of these contested states are being re-counted, and this is on top of routine audits.

There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud, or fraud of any magnitude sufficient to impact this election, or anything close to it. Never has been. The fact that you have to keep turning to more and more dubious sources to support your arguments should tell you something right then and there. But it won't. You have a narrative, and you're looking to make the facts fit it.

I'd be fine with investigating fraud, if any of the "evidence" presented rose to the level of reasonable suspicion that would warrant such action, the same as I would expect for any other allegations of fraud, wrongdoing or criminal activity. Our legal system requires these things for a reason. Namely, to keep things like Giuliani's clown show from clogging up our court system and muddying the waters of legal and political discourse.

There's a reason that none of Trump's lawyers have alleged fraud in an actual court. And that's because there are serious consequences for lying to judges. If you watch what Trump's legal team does, instead of what they say, it becomes quite clear that they know they have no evidence.

Trump is raising money off the back of this bullshit that he's not even bothering to put into his efforts to overturn the election. That in and of itself tells you that they all know this is baseless. They're literally unwilling to put their money where their mouth is.

But, hey, y'all keep looking for more youtube videos and unsourced tabloid links to stroke your bruised egos. It doesn't affect me a bit. It won't effect the election. And it won't affect Biden's term as President. It might affect the Georgia runoffs, however. And that's the funniest part of all. You reap what you sow.

Seriosuly, though, don't stop tilting at windmills, this thread is currently the saddest and funniest thing this side of Kiwi Farms. Y'all keep moving the goalposts, I'll keep laughing at you.

As for "Civil War", I doubt a bunch of soft crybabies who burst into tears when asked to wear a mask are going to go all Valley Forge on everyone. But keep talking about it the way you talked about "Q drops" and "Gitmo" LMAO.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 04, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Damn right it looks improper. I also understand that the Democrats here in the video that are processing ballots? That is absolutely against the law, and hugely against all the known regulations. Such unethical and criminal actions will get every one of these people in prison. It is monstrous.
An interesting aside, though not unsurprising. The MSM has been utterly silent on this video, and has ignored it.

That is why more and more people are tuning in to alternative media, and absolutely do not trust MSM at all, and laugh at them. In alternative media, this video is *everywhere*.

The Democrats are going to burn for this. This will open the gates to more investigations, and as the hot lamps are brought overhead of the people involved, they will squeal.

The video just dropped yesterday. Here's Newsweek about it, citing the work of Fox News reporter Griff Jenkins. They checked with the chief investigator for the Republican secretary of state.

Quote
Frances Watson, the chief investigator for the Georgia secretary of state office, confirmed that the containers seen in the video weren't suitcases, but rather the normal bins used for the ballot counting process.

"There wasn't a bin that had ballots in it under that table," Watson told Lead Stories. "It was an empty bin and the ballots from it were actually out on the table when the media were still there, and then it was placed back into the box when the media were still there and placed next to the table."

Watson added that the media were never told to leave as the claims indicate, but rather that the location "was still open for them or the public to come back in to view at whatever time they wanted to, as long as [ election workers ] were still working." She said that the ballots that had already been opened in front of the observers were the only ones scanned after the media and other observers left.
Source: https://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-reporter-debunks-georgia-election-fraud-claims-made-tucker-carlson-sean-hannity-1552397

Now, one could claim that the Republican-appointed chief investigator is lying. Maybe those are indeed improper suitcases instead of the normal bins. If so, there should be plenty of witnesses who can shoot down investigator Watson's lies. This isn't something that should be under doubt - it's the normal procedure that hundreds of poll workers engage in. However, if the chief investigator is *not* lying, then the people who spread the video were lying -- and it's them who should be burned.

Here's more coverage of it in mainstream media:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/12/04/giuliani-boasts-about-finally-providing-evidence-fraud-which-doesnt-appear-be-evidence-fraud/

https://www.gpb.org/news/2020/12/04/fact-checking-rudy-giulianis-grandiose-georgia-election-fraud-claim


EDITED TO ADD: Here's the Fox News reporting on it.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-recertifies-election-results-fulton-county-video

Quote
Georgia election chief Gabe Sterling shared a fact-check article from a news outlet called Lead Stories in a Thursday tweet, saying, "The 90-second video of election workers at State Farm arena, purporting to show fraud was watched in its entirety (hours) by @GaSecofState investigators. Shows normal ballot processing. Here is the fact check on it."
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 04, 2020, 03:31:34 PM
The MSM is ignoring these claims the same way it ignores flat Earthers, because both are bullshit. The media isn't required to report lies and disinfo campaigns.

They kind of are at this point, that is their business model.

Remember that time MSM was reporting on Andrew Yang when he was trying to be nominated for Democratic nominee?

Yeah, me neither.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 04, 2020, 03:33:06 PM
Yes, it is.

When even jkim is not supporting you, you know it is time to give up on that conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 04, 2020, 04:44:32 PM

Trump is raising money off the back of this bullshit that he's not even bothering to put into his efforts to overturn the election. That in and of itself tells you that they all know this is baseless. They're literally unwilling to put their money where their mouth is.

I am curious what those that want to fight for Trump to the bitter end think about this point. I've seen several sources that say that no donation of < $5,000 provides any money to the court costs. So what do people expect he will do with that money?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 04, 2020, 04:52:55 PM

Trump is raising money off the back of this bullshit that he's not even bothering to put into his efforts to overturn the election. That in and of itself tells you that they all know this is baseless. They're literally unwilling to put their money where their mouth is.

I am curious what those that want to fight for Trump to the bitter end think about this point. I've seen several sources that say that no donation of < $5,000 provides any money to the court costs. So what do people expect he will do with that money?

So if you have ten donations of $500 then that $5000 can not be used?

That does not seem to be how money usually works.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 04, 2020, 05:30:09 PM

Trump is raising money off the back of this bullshit that he's not even bothering to put into his efforts to overturn the election. That in and of itself tells you that they all know this is baseless. They're literally unwilling to put their money where their mouth is.

I am curious what those that want to fight for Trump to the bitter end think about this point. I've seen several sources that say that no donation of < $5,000 provides any money to the court costs. So what do people expect he will do with that money?

Some penny ante legal donations would be a drop in whatever budget they're assigned to. I expect the money will dissapear into the bookkeeping and get spent on misc expenditures.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 04, 2020, 06:45:31 PM

Trump is raising money off the back of this bullshit that he's not even bothering to put into his efforts to overturn the election. That in and of itself tells you that they all know this is baseless. They're literally unwilling to put their money where their mouth is.

I am curious what those that want to fight for Trump to the bitter end think about this point. I've seen several sources that say that no donation of < $5,000 provides any money to the court costs. So what do people expect he will do with that money?

So if you have ten donations of $500 then that $5000 can not be used?

That does not seem to be how money usually works.

It does in Trumpworld...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-fundraising-insigh/donations-under-8k-to-trump-election-defense-instead-go-to-president-rnc-idUSKBN27R309

It's even spelled out in the small print of the emails begging for donations. Many people have posted screenshots of these emails. They're easy to find. They're not even bothering to cover their tracks that well, because I guess they think MAGAs are too gullible to wonder where the money's going. And they're right.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 04, 2020, 07:24:10 PM

Trump is raising money off the back of this bullshit that he's not even bothering to put into his efforts to overturn the election. That in and of itself tells you that they all know this is baseless. They're literally unwilling to put their money where their mouth is.

I am curious what those that want to fight for Trump to the bitter end think about this point. I've seen several sources that say that no donation of < $5,000 provides any money to the court costs. So what do people expect he will do with that money?

So if you have ten donations of $500 then that $5000 can not be used?

That does not seem to be how money usually works.

It does in Trumpworld...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-fundraising-insigh/donations-under-8k-to-trump-election-defense-instead-go-to-president-rnc-idUSKBN27R309

It's even spelled out in the small print of the emails begging for donations. Many people have posted screenshots of these emails. They're easy to find. They're not even bothering to cover their tracks that well, because I guess they think MAGAs are too gullible to wonder where the money's going. And they're right.

So from your link: Quote As President Donald Trump seeks to discredit last week’s election with baseless claims of voter fraud...  ...according to a Reuters review of the legal language in the solicitations....

well that seems like it is a credible source.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 04, 2020, 07:41:38 PM

Trump is raising money off the back of this bullshit that he's not even bothering to put into his efforts to overturn the election. That in and of itself tells you that they all know this is baseless. They're literally unwilling to put their money where their mouth is.

I am curious what those that want to fight for Trump to the bitter end think about this point. I've seen several sources that say that no donation of < $5,000 provides any money to the court costs. So what do people expect he will do with that money?

So if you have ten donations of $500 then that $5000 can not be used?

That does not seem to be how money usually works.

It does in Trumpworld...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-fundraising-insigh/donations-under-8k-to-trump-election-defense-instead-go-to-president-rnc-idUSKBN27R309

It's even spelled out in the small print of the emails begging for donations. Many people have posted screenshots of these emails. They're easy to find. They're not even bothering to cover their tracks that well, because I guess they think MAGAs are too gullible to wonder where the money's going. And they're right.

So from your link: Quote As President Donald Trump seeks to discredit last week’s election with baseless claims of voter fraud...  ...according to a Reuters review of the legal language in the solicitations....

well that seems like it is a credible source.

Funny how you just glossed over this part:

Quote
Trump’s solicitation website carries a banner headline that says “OFFICIAL ELECTION DEFENSE FUND” and “CONTRIBUTE NOW.”

Scrolling down the page would take a donor to the fine print, which shows that donations are split between “Save America,” which gets 60% of the money, and the RNC, which gets the other 40%. None of the money flows to Trump’s official “recount” committee fund until Trump’s Save America share reaches the legal contribution limit of $5,000, according to the disclosures.

Here are screenshots from actual Trump fundraising emails:

(https://img.fae.ro/f15b59.png)

(https://img.fae.ro/b0b8e7.png)

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 04, 2020, 07:56:55 PM
Also CA certfied about an hour ago, putting Biden over 270.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 04, 2020, 09:52:14 PM
Greetings!

Dan Bongino discusses the Georgia video at State Farm Arena, as well as other suspicious activity and affidavits involved with the 2020 Election.

Evidently, Georgia Governor Kemp has now ordered a signature audit of the election, primarily in response to the Georgia video.

Contrary to the cock-sucking MSM, nothing in this video is "normal". It is against the law to count and tabulate votes when other poll watchers are not present! But there's nothing to see here in the Georgia video, right? It's all a conspiracy theory! Right. Keep thinking that. Meanwhile, more and more people are waking up to the fraud, corruption, and treason taking place in America from the Marxists.

Also discusses video of the woman in Michigan, a witness, that when questioned by a Democrat politician, she answers like "I signed a affidavit that says I can go to prison if I am wrong. DID YOU?"

*laughing* She is such a sweet savage!!!!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 04, 2020, 10:00:09 PM
Greetings!

Dan Bongino discusses the Georgia video at State Farm Arena, as well as other suspicious activity and affidavits involved with the 2020 Election.

Evidently, Georgia Governor Kemp has now ordered a signature audit of the election, primarily in response to the Georgia video.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK



Nope. He is "calling" for an audit. He has no authority to order one. Only the (Republican) Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, has the authority to call for such an audit. And thus far he is not inclined to do so. Kemp's move is likely political, he knows Republicans are between a rock and a hard place here. Especially in Georgia. On the one hand, endorse baseless conspiracy theories and Fruity Giuliani's clown show. On the other hand, appear not to be supportive of Trump. It's a tough position to be in, but it's their own damn fault for not having enough balls to stand up to Cadet Bone Spurs for four years.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 04, 2020, 10:17:11 PM
Greetings!

Salty Cracker discusses the Georgia video, and many other aspects of fraud and corruption in the 2020 Election. Hilarious commentary by Salty Cracker!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 04, 2020, 11:27:09 PM
      I am sure there were plenty of loyal brits in the colonies who were absolutely convinced nothing would come of all the rumblings they kept hearing all over in the 1770's.  I feel fairly certain every one in pretty much every nation that ended up having mass civil strife or even a civil war was pretty convinced it would never happen because well, it never did happen.  Even the founders had a pretty good idea there would be rebellions from time to time.  One is coming.  This whole thing is simply going to be fuel for it when it comes.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 04, 2020, 11:57:19 PM
Yes, it is.
No, it's not, for all the reasons I spelled out.

Your reasons are almost all garbage. The only case with previous elections not having a President-elect a full week after the election was 2000, and in that one everybody, including the GSA Administrator, had not ascertained an apparently successful candidate. The President-elect in 2000 was recognized in December when the Supreme Court had ruled. The only reason you give that differentiates this election from the last 14 is that Trump won't concede, except when he tweeted that Biden won; but again, it's not the President-conceded-to, it's the President-elect. Which Joe Biden is.

Pat is apparently short for Pathetic. You seem to think that getting jeff37923 to attack you is some mark of being not right wing, which is as stupid as jeff37923 thinking that correcting a false assertion in his comic is people losing "their shit".

Quote
How can I know Pat is pushing a right-wing perspective, just from the posts I'm replying to?
I'm a Democrat but no partisan extremist as Pat claims
You're a partisan extremist because you immediately label anyone who disagrees with you as belonging to the other side of the political axis that that defines your simplistic, binary worldview. Even if you have to listen to dogwhistles nobody else can hear and ignore more than half of what they said, to make the label fit.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt in my first response, until you declared that the media are all lying. What followed just confirmed the observation. Only one species of duck does that, and it's got two right wings. So you just keep on quacking, duckie.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 05, 2020, 12:09:23 AM
There is nothing which can convince the "Election was stolen" people that it was a legit election in any reasonable time (years). It's based on crazy conspiracy theories which can neither be proven nor disproved. It's like Kennedy assassination theories, or Templar Knights/Illuminati theories.

The point is mostly to discredit their opponents, no matter how much damage it does to the country. Republicans prioritized making Obama a one-term president over fixing the Great Recession.

Quote
Again - I saw these same arguments in 2004 from the crazy left. And they REALLY WERE the identical arguments except the name of the company which made the voting machines was Diebold rather than Dominion that time.

Well, there were several differences. The Diebold machines didn't have paper ballots, so no way to audit or to recount paper ballots. The head of Diebold promised to deliver Ohio to Bush; while he probably didn't mean anything criminal since announcing your criminal intentions in public is not something successful criminals do, it's a really bad look. The Secretary of State of Ohio served in Bush's campaign and certainly took steps to make voting difficult for Democratic constituencies.

But even so the arguments were truly only on the crazy fringe, not at the heart of the Democratic party (there was a challenge in each chamber of Congress, going nowhere; a few elected Democrats playing to their base). Mostly Democrats respond by pushing for reforms in future elections; making it easier to register, getting rid of unreliable voting systems like punched cards, and pushing for high turnout while Republicans push for voter suppression techniques and gerrymandering. But in the present election most of the Republican party's elected officials are in the crazy fringe.

I've corrected overheated arguments from the left side in elections like 2004 because I don't want to be associated with a side that makes stupid or crazy arguments.

Quote
None of that held up when courts actually examined the claims either.

What claims were brought to court in 2004? The Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States_election_voting_controversies mostly discusses cases that were brought before the election, and complaints about the election process after that were not attempting to get a court to throw out the results. (I'd expect my elected representatives to try to change things that were clearly unfair for future elections, and some of the cases in the current election might be reasonable if that was their purpose rather than throwing out results they don't like.) In 2004, an Ohio recount was requested by the Libertarian and Green party candidates, not by John Kerry; in 2016 the challenges in Wisconsin and Michigan were brought by Jill Stein, not Hillary Clinton.

Quote
So yeah, I am happy in 4 days this may be settled by the law. Because it can never settle according to wild conspiracy theorists. I am sure there are still some on the crazy left who claim the 2004 election was stolen by Bush. And you guys will be classified just like them in the minds of most people - nutters unable to deal with the cognitive dissonance that their faith-like beliefs in how the election would go (based on the people they know) doesn't match how people actually voted.

I am also happy; I've been there since the votes were sufficiently counted to know the outcome.

But I'm perplexed that Trump supporters were so sure he would win. I expect polls to be wrong, not because they haven't been right (most are), but just because who picks up random telephone calls? (I did in election season, and got polled once back before the primaries were settled.) But the Trump supporters both rejected the polls and turned to them to argue that, among other things, Trump was getting massive increase in support from minority voters; they now deploy polling to argue that Biden could not have won, and cherry pick the polling statistics that they argue support this.

A couple examples:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/13/5-historical-trends-that-show-its-utterly-shocking-if-trump-lost-in-2020/
https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5-more-ways-joe-biden-magically-outperformed-election-norms/
In the first article, four of five reasons are polling, and many of those are cherry picked. The second article promises 5 more reasons but only delivers four; it has some appeal to polling, like Trump enthusiasm advantage in polling making it impossible for Biden to get 80 million votes, but mostly clings to trends like bellwethers which may have changed.

xkcd has provided an updated list of things that never happened in presidential elections until they did.
https://xkcd.com/2383/

Outside of polling, why would anyone expect an incumbent to get reelected in the middle of a pandemic and an economy as bad as the Great Depression? Because there were boat parades?

Quote
That's OK though, you can lash out at me with your personal attacks for me calling it like it is. I understand it's painful to have your faith shattered. You do you, in dealing with that grief. The first stages of denial and anger are all yours right now.

You can still buy Trump 2016 "Fuck your feelings" t-shirts. Not surprisingly, you can buy Biden 2020 "Fuck your feelings" t-shirts because 80 million people have to include a lot of people who are enjoying the current outcome and want to express their anger that way. Strangely, I can find Trump 2020 "Fuck your feelings" t-shirts but not Clinton 2016 "Fuck your feelings" t-shirts. (Google Shopping; not gonna post links.)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 05, 2020, 12:55:36 AM
Greetings!

The Hodge Twins respond to "Lead Stories" "fact check" of the Hodge Twins' video about the Georgia Ballot Video.

Lead Stories are full of shit, just like all of the other Leftist "Fact Checkers". Just like Politifact, they are all cock-sucking frauds.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 05, 2020, 01:11:27 AM
Greetings!

Attorney Jackie Pick, narrates and discusses the Georgia Ballot Video. The video is provided by Sky News Australia.

Eye witnesses and poll-watchers which supplied testimony for this video are under sworn affidavits, which means that if they are lying, they go to prison. Their testimony, this video, and the attorney Jackie Pick here are in my view far more credible than any left-wing "fact checkers" or other cock-sucking MSM sources.

Amazing how the Democrats want to insist that this video has been "debunked". Hasn't been debunked at all. Obvious evidence right before your eyes. Democrats are in denial, and want everyone to suck down their corrupt narrative.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 05, 2020, 01:39:50 AM
As stated previously, Republican election officials, not just "fact-checkers", have debunked that video, as well as most, if not all, allegations of voter fraud. Many of the sworn affadavits so far contain second-hand accounts. Meaning, they are saying that they "heard", or "heard about" fraud, rather than witnessing it. Quite a bit more complicated from a legal standpoint to prove dishonesty in such cases. In any event, no judges have found that these affadavits contain evidence that is sufficiently credible to warrant action. Occam's Razor would indicate that the signal to noise ratio is very low, then. Unless you believe that multiple bipartisan conspiracies existed in many different counties, committed by people who would likewise face consequences if discovered. Democrats and Republicans, in several
different counties, in several different states, working together to rig an election. And being so terrible at it that all of these morons from Fruity Giuliani's clown show caught them. Uh-huh.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 05, 2020, 01:42:03 AM
Greetings!

Attorney Jackie Pick, narrates and discusses the Georgia Ballot Video. The video is provided by Sky News Australia.

Eye witnesses and poll-watchers which supplied testimony for this video are under sworn affidavits, which means that if they are lying, they go to prison. Their testimony, this video, and the attorney Jackie Pick here are in my view far more credible than any left-wing "fact checkers" or other cock-sucking MSM sources.

Amazing how the Democrats want to insist that this video has been "debunked". Hasn't been debunked at all. Obvious evidence right before your eyes. Democrats are in denial, and want everyone to suck down their corrupt narrative. Interesting how the Democrat politician insists that everything here has been debunked!!!Reee! While several other politicians sitting right there in the hearing make clear that the video evidence and the testimony has not been debunked at all--it is being presented for the first time now, as of last night.

Such monstrous denial and Reeeing by the fucking Democrats. So pathetic.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 05, 2020, 01:45:18 AM
Serious question: why are you so sure that their description of the video is correct? Why believe these people over Republican election officials? Because what they're saying fits your narrative? Why would Republicans risk their careers, risk legal consequences, risk the threat of violence, to throw the election to Biden? Why are you willing to take the word of these narrators, but not the Republican officials who were tasked with overseeing the election? You keep babbling about Democrats, but what about the Republican officials who have denied that voter fraud occurred? What of them?

The video has absolutely been debunked, by Republicans, who have denied every charge levelled, and who have explained that Trump supporters' description of the video is simply not accurate.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 05, 2020, 01:47:19 AM
The video just dropped yesterday. Here's Newsweek about it, citing the work of Fox News reporter Griff Jenkins. They checked with the chief investigator for the Republican secretary of state.

Quote
Frances Watson, the chief investigator for the Georgia secretary of state office, confirmed that the containers seen in the video weren't suitcases, but rather the normal bins used for the ballot counting process.

"There wasn't a bin that had ballots in it under that table," Watson told Lead Stories. "It was an empty bin and the ballots from it were actually out on the table when the media were still there, and then it was placed back into the box when the media were still there and placed next to the table."

Watson added that the media were never told to leave as the claims indicate, but rather that the location "was still open for them or the public to come back in to view at whatever time they wanted to, as long as [ election workers ] were still working." She said that the ballots that had already been opened in front of the observers were the only ones scanned after the media and other observers left.
Source: https://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-reporter-debunks-georgia-election-fraud-claims-made-tucker-carlson-sean-hannity-1552397

Now, one could claim that the Republican-appointed chief investigator is lying. Maybe those are indeed improper suitcases instead of the normal bins. If so, there should be plenty of witnesses who can shoot down investigator Watson's lies. This isn't something that should be under doubt - it's the normal procedure that hundreds of poll workers engage in. However, if the chief investigator is *not* lying, then the people who spread the video were lying -- and it's them who should be burned.

Here's more coverage of it in mainstream media:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/12/04/giuliani-boasts-about-finally-providing-evidence-fraud-which-doesnt-appear-be-evidence-fraud/

https://www.gpb.org/news/2020/12/04/fact-checking-rudy-giulianis-grandiose-georgia-election-fraud-claim


EDITED TO ADD: Here's the Fox News reporting on it.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-recertifies-election-results-fulton-county-video

Quote
Georgia election chief Gabe Sterling shared a fact-check article from a news outlet called Lead Stories in a Thursday tweet, saying, "The 90-second video of election workers at State Farm arena, purporting to show fraud was watched in its entirety (hours) by @GaSecofState investigators. Shows normal ballot processing. Here is the fact check on it."

The Hodge Twins respond to "Lead Stories" "fact check" of the Hodge Twins' video about the Georgia Ballot Video.

Lead Stories are full of shit, just like all of the other Leftist "Fact Checkers". Just like Politifact, they are all cock-sucking frauds.

The fact checkers, though, aren't asking you to accept their word. They are providing actual references and quotes to the sources. In this case, to the Republican chief investigator and election chief.

The Hodge Twins (at 5:00) make the utterly stupid argument of the person narrating the video made a *sworn statement*. She could go to *jail* if she's lying. So that means there's no way that she would lie. Which is utterly ridiculous.

Now, maybe the lead investigator and the election chief are lying. But it's also possible that the allegations are lies. The word of the two sides - and supporting witnesses - are what the courts will be deciding on. I haven't seen the affidavits of the other people who were around - as well as others who know the general election procedures. I'm not claiming to know for certain who is lying and who isn't - but I think someone is a naive fool to suggest "Oh, no one would *ever* make a false allegation in *court*."
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 05, 2020, 01:48:15 AM
Greetings!

Officer Brandon Tatum on the Tatum program discusses the Georgia Ballot video, as well as additional testimony concerning voting fraud.

Mind boggling.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 05, 2020, 01:52:17 AM
Also CA certfied about an hour ago, putting Biden over 270.

Excellent news for the reality based world. Another step forward in an inevitable process toward an administration that offers hope to the nation and the world.

Kraken worshipers here will doubtless retreat further into their fantasy worlds. Pat, on the other hand, is likely to wait until March 4, the pre-1937 traditional inauguration day, before deciding whether Joe Biden should be called President-elect.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 05, 2020, 02:02:37 AM
Serious question: why are you so sure that their description of the video is correct? Why believe these people over Republican election officials? Because what they're saying fits your narrative? Why would Republicans risk their careers, risk legal consequences, risk the threat of violence, to throw the election to Biden? Why are you willing to take the word of these narrators, but not the Republican officials who were tasked with overseeing the election? You keep babbling about Democrats, but what about the Republican officials who have denied that voter fraud occurred? What of them?

The video has absolutely been debunked, by Republicans, who have denied every charge levelled, and who have explained that Trump supporters' description of the video is simply not accurate.

Greetings!

Well, so far, I have seen plenty of evidence of so-called Republicans being quite complicit in corruption. President Trump has been fighting against the Democrats for four years--which have engaged in a constant litany of lies, fraud, and corruption against the President--aided and cock-sucked along the way by plenty of RINO's and "Never Trumpers". Thus, when it comes to the 2020 Election, it would be absolutely naïve to not expect the Democrats and their Republican cucks to engage in fraud and corruption. I don't need to hear testimonies of eye-witnesses, Conservative alternative media news people, or Conservative lawyers to tell me that fraud has taken place in this election. I knew all by myself on election night, when President Trump was overwhelmingly ahead, and had the election won easily. Then, somehow in the middle of the night--hundreds and hundreds of thousands of votes--all going for Biden--somehow gets dumped in the deep of the night, and Biden is then declared the winner? That is just BS, man. Mathematicians, pollster experts, and so on have all discussed how such an occurrence is BS as well, and has never, ever happened before. So, from election night alone--or immediately in the morning--I knew the Democrats were engaged in fraud and BS.

Beyond that, the affidavit witnesses will go to prison if they are lying. Various officials and politicians--whether Democrat or Republican--can say whatever they want; they can lie through their teeth nine ways to Sunday, and suffer zero consequences. Same thing goes for all of the "Fact Checkers" and members of the MSM. I have zero faith in anything the MSM media says.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 05, 2020, 02:12:44 AM
I hope they do a signature audit in Georgia. Because when they find that also disproves the fraud allegation, SHARK will have to eat a huge bag of shut the fuck up. Oh, we all know he will just pivot around that, because that's what all conspiracy nutters do. But the rest of us will see him for the utter bullshit he's represented in this thread.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 05, 2020, 02:25:09 AM
Greetings!

Also, Tubesock Army, yes, I also am deeply skeptical of many "Republicans". On any given day I think somewhere between 50% and 80% of them are also lying, corrupt frauds that are in bed with globalists. They hate President Trump, and also are eager to look for any opportunity to attack the President. Many of these corrupt slugs will go right along with neoliberals in government to bring back more wars, more corrupt government regulations, more porkbarrel BS, and on and on. They could care less about the erosion of the country, selling the country out to the Communist Chinese, letting the Marxist Democrats plough fuck them in the ass, as long as they keep getting that sweet money.

So many of these slugs in the past go golfing with the Democrats, have cigar dinners, and interbreed their kids together--meanwhile promising always to "fight again another day!" while nothing actually gets done. And yet, the Marxist Globalists keep scoring legislative and regulatory victories every step of the way. RINO Republicans "lose gracefully and with dignity" over and over again. I think millions and millions of Conservative Americans are fed the fuck up with that whole program. President Trump has worked to fight against that whole program--the swamp--and lots of Republicans with connections in law, Pharmaceutical companies, trade companies, Defense industries, and more, have hated President Trump for it, and bitterly.

So, it doesn't surprise me that there are lots of Republican politicians and officials that just choose to look the other way, soft peddle their jobs, not investigate too vigorously, play deaf, dumb, and blind, so that Trump can lose. That isn't just true in Georgia, but throughout the country. So, yeah, I am skeptical of what a lot of swarmy, good ol' boy establishment Republicans say. Their motivations are very much in question, Tubesock Army.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 05, 2020, 02:36:40 AM
I hope they do a signature audit in Georgia. Because when they find that also disproves the fraud allegation, SHARK will have to eat a huge bag of shut the fuck up. Oh, we all know he will just pivot around that, because that's what all conspiracy nutters do. But the rest of us will see him for the utter bullshit he's represented in this thread.

Greetings!

Really, Mistwell? I want legitimate, thorough investigations and audits, because I want the elections to be fair, and free of corruption and fraud. Fuck all the suspicious BS. Get the legal votes counted, and all the BS phony ballots thrown the fuck out. If Biden won such an election, fine. I don't believe that Obama engaged in fraud to win his election, and I am no fan of President Obama. I have stated several times now--quite apart from any "conspiracy theories"--I have felt numerous aspects of this election were very suspicious, and require full investigations.

Beyond that, well, for four years we have seen the Democrats engage in one BS conspiracy theory after another, all of which have been entirely fraudulent.

Here, we have lots of evidence, lots of eye witnesses, affidavits, and testimony. Hundreds, and more. A storm of questions, analysis, and concerns over problems in several states during this election. I want justice to prevail, Mistwell. TRUTH.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 05, 2020, 04:52:13 AM
Your reasons are almost all garbage.
Your reasons are garbage, because they're based on ignoring what I said, and invoking the now proven to be incorrect tradition, not the rules.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt in my first response, until you declared that the media are all lying. What followed just confirmed the observation. Only one species of duck does that, and it's got two right wings. So you just keep on quacking, duckie.
Your entire argument is that it's inconceivable that the media would lie on any subject, at all? That's an absurd claim, even without the specific evidence in this case.

You seem really invested in telling me what I believe. Which is as dumb as it's always been, Jeff. But it's good that you're mixing up your signature "dance, dance" with variations like "keep on quacking".
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 05, 2020, 09:30:57 AM
I hope they do a signature audit in Georgia. Because when they find that also disproves the fraud allegation, SHARK will have to eat a huge bag of shut the fuck up. Oh, we all know he will just pivot around that, because that's what all conspiracy nutters do. But the rest of us will see him for the utter bullshit he's represented in this thread.

No, he won't. He's not moved by facts. He has a fatal case of confirmation bias, and will see only that which reinforces his beliefs.

Here's a joke for you:

A conspiracy theorist dies and goes to heaven.

When he arrives at the Pearly Gates, God is there to receive him.

"Welcome. You are permitted to ask me one question, which I will answer truthfully."

Without hesitating, the conspiracy theorist asks, "I have to know, who really killed JFK?"

God replies, "It was Lee Harvey Oswald, and he acted alone. "

The conspiracy theorist pauses, thinks to himself, then says "Shit! This goes higher up than I thought..."


[

Greetings!

Really, Mistwell? I want legitimate, thorough investigations and audits, because I want the elections to be fair, and free of corruption and fraud. Fuck all the suspicious BS. Get the legal votes counted, and all the BS phony ballots thrown the fuck out. If Biden won such an election, fine. I don't believe that Obama engaged in fraud to win his election, and I am no fan of President Obama. I have stated several times now--quite apart from any "conspiracy theories"--I have felt numerous aspects of this election were very suspicious, and require full investigations.

Beyond that, well, for four years we have seen the Democrats engage in one BS conspiracy theory after another, all of which have been entirely fraudulent.

Here, we have lots of evidence, lots of eye witnesses, affidavits, and testimony. Hundreds, and more. A storm of questions, analysis, and concerns over problems in several states during this election. I want justice to prevail, Mistwell. TRUTH.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

You say you want an investigation, but also that you want all the "BS phony ballots" thrown out. You've already decided there was fraud, even though no court has found that to be the case. You don't want an investigation, you want your beliefs parroted back to you. Even if there was a full and thorough investigation, if it found what authorities have already found, i.e., no evidence of voter fraud on any appreciable scale, you would simply attack the results as corrupt, and the investigators as dishonest.

Are the judges, some of them Trump appointees, who have laughed Trump's team out of court dozens of times now, all in on "the fix?" Is this something you really believe?

Trump supporters are trying to get the courts to act on allegations that lack the legal legal merits to proceed, and Trump's legal challenges have yet to alleged actual fraud in court. In fact when asked point blank blank whether they have direct evidence of wrongdoing, Trump and GOP lawyers have been forced to admit, on several occasions, that they do not. This is not evidence of corruption. It is evidence that Trump's claims lack merit.

If you really wanted this investigated, if you really cared about the truth, you would realize that Trump's various legal challenges are being blown up left and right because they're absurd.

Trump and the GOP have at their disposal the same legal remedies available to anyone in their situation. The fact that they haven't been able to make significant legal headway is down to the fact that their claims are baseless and their execution amateurish.

But you will continue to call anything that contradicts your point of view "corruption". You will find fault with any investigation that doesn't yield the results you think it should. You will continue to ignore information that contradicts your narrative. And I will continue to point and laugh. And Biden will be sworn in.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 05, 2020, 11:59:21 AM
Part of the problem is that the media have become utterly unreliable, and I’d argue worse so on the left, which I used to follow more than the right. Most leftists seem oblivious to it, while right-wingers are so aware of it that they are skeptical to anything that doesn’t “feel right” to them, because they are constantly being lied to (and by Republicans too by the way). I have debated people on a left-leaning forum, and they had no clue that Trump supporters had been murdered in the protests, that George Floyd had breathing problems before he was put on the ground, or that he had previously committed armed robbery of a pregnant woman. Or indeed that the Democrats, in trying to expose Russian collusion had been going after an informant for CIA, i.e. he was helping the US intelligence against the Russians. That was actually when the collusion story fell apart, but most leftists don’t know that it ever did.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 05, 2020, 12:10:12 PM
Part of the problem is that the media have become utterly unreliable, and I’d argue worse so on the left, which I used to follow more than the right. Most leftists seem oblivious to it, while right-wingers are so aware of it that they are skeptical to anything that doesn’t “feel right” to them, because they are constantly being lied to (and by Republicans too by the way). I have debated people on a left-leaning forum, and they had no clue that Trump supporters had been murdered in the protests, that George Floyd had breathing problems before he was put on the ground, or that he had previously committed armed robbery of a pregnant woman. Or indeed that the Democrats, in trying to expose Russian collusion had been going after an informant for CIA, i.e. he was helping the US intelligence against the Russians. That was actually when the collusion story fell apart, but most leftists don’t know that it ever did.

I agree a huge part of this problem is too many in the media made the irresponsible choice to join the #RESIST movement or the TRUMP movement, which led to skewed perspectives given to their audience, and reasonable distrust to those outside their audience. And I think the primary factor in this is 24 hour news outlets feeling like they needed to choose a side for ratings purposes to carve out a niche in audiences they could target, combined with similar pressure on online media. The audience for neutral reporting just isn't as large as the audience for partisan reporting with hyperbolic and misrepresentative headlines and soundbites, because it's boring to discuss nuance.

So now we get shit like this, where people are trusting randos in YouTube videos with 100% incentive to get as many clicks and go viral as possible, and no incentive or checks in place to pressure them to not skew what they "report" to just one perspective. Because the more extreme things they show, the more clicks they get. And the more Believers they get like SHARK the more those videos are passed around, which gets more clicks. This is a system set up with incentives to be as misrepresentation and scandalous as possible, and punishment for introducing any perspective or nuance which distracts from the click-bait headline. It's Yellow Journalism turned up to 11.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 05, 2020, 01:09:20 PM
Even if you distrust the media, the stark difference between what Trump and the GOP allege in media, and what they're alleging (or more accurately, not alleging) in court, speaks for itself.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 05, 2020, 01:25:14 PM
Does this argument sound familiar? This is from 2004. From the nutty left:

Democratic Underground Forums – Voting in the USA: A Tale of Two Brothers: “Voting Fraud in the USA
Did you know….

80% of all votes in America are counted by o�nly two companies: Diebold and ES&S.

There is no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of the U.S. voting machine industry.

The vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers.

The chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was ‘committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.’

35% of ES&S is owned by Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, who became Senator based o�n votes counted by ES&S machines.

Diebold’s new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes. In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.

Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.

Diebold is based in Ohio and supplies almost all the voting machines there.

None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio.

30% of all U.S. votes are carried out o�n unverifiable touch screen voting machines.

Bush’s Help America Vote Act of 2002 has as its goal to replace all machines with the new electronic touch screen systems.

Republican Senator Chuck Hagel owns 35% of ES&S and was caught lying about it

ES&S is the largest voting machine manufacturer in the U.S. and counts almost 60% of all U.S. votes.

Exit polls for the 2004 elections were accurate within 1% or less in areas where ballot machines were use”

“How many Americans know that there was a bill in the House of Representives supported by a majority of congressman that would have required voting machines to leave a paper trail by 2004 (HR 2239: The Voter Confidence and Increased Accessibility Act of 2003, written by Rush Holt, Dem from NJ) that even Republicans supported? But who stopped it? Tom DeLay–who’s as partisan as they come, to put it mildy. DeLay was recently slapped with three ethics violations for bribery, gerrymandering and money-laundering–hardly the man to help the 2004 election be free and fair (not stolen by Bush).”
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 05, 2020, 01:57:55 PM
Beyond that, the affidavit witnesses will go to prison if they are lying. Various officials and politicians--whether Democrat or Republican--can say whatever they want; they can lie through their teeth nine ways to Sunday, and suffer zero consequences. Same thing goes for all of the "Fact Checkers" and members of the MSM. I have zero faith in anything the MSM media says.
Here, we have lots of evidence, lots of eye witnesses, affidavits, and testimony. Hundreds, and more. A storm of questions, analysis, and concerns over problems in several states during this election. I want justice to prevail, Mistwell. TRUTH.

Here is the root of our disagreement. You might believe that *Republicans* can lie, but you are convinced that a *Trump supporter* would never lie. You decide on truth or falsehood based on whether or not they support Trump. You seem explicit about this here. I might be a cock-sucking liberal, but I believe that both conservatives and liberals can lie and/or be wrong, even under oath.

I think that this sort of absolute partisan belief is dangerous in both liberals and conservatives. Someone might *say* they are liberal, but really, they care nothing about helping the poor and disadvantaged or saving the environment -- they are just greedy, and there is profit to be made in fame and business from liberals. Likewise, someone might *say* they are a Trump supporter, but they don't actually care about helping the middle class and traditional Americans -- they are just greedy, and there is profit to be made in fame and business from Trump supporters.

Affidavit witnesses *risk* prison, but that's only if it can be *proven* beyond reasonable doubt they are maliciously lying to sway the case. In most cases, the lies amount to a he-said/she-said, where it can't be conclusively proven that either side is lying. Prosecutions for perjury are quite rare. (ref) (https://daily.jstor.org/why-is-perjury-so-rarely-prosecuted/)

Getting down to the brass tacks of evidence...

There are thousands of Twitter posts -- but it seems to me that there are only a few dozen legal affidavits. I obviously haven't had time to look at all of them, but I've looked at a few of the most prominent - as cited by pro-Trump posters here. I'll try to post a summary in a following post. The question is, how do we assess their credibility? Do we just accept that they *must* be telling the truth because they're pro-Trump, or do we assess their credibility by some other method?


I don't need to hear testimonies of eye-witnesses, Conservative alternative media news people, or Conservative lawyers to tell me that fraud has taken place in this election. I knew all by myself on election night, when President Trump was overwhelmingly ahead, and had the election won easily. Then, somehow in the middle of the night--hundreds and hundreds of thousands of votes--all going for Biden--somehow gets dumped in the deep of the night, and Biden is then declared the winner? That is just BS, man. Mathematicians, pollster experts, and so on have all discussed how such an occurrence is BS as well, and has never, ever happened before. So, from election night alone--or immediately in the morning--I knew the Democrats were engaged in fraud and BS.

I felt like this was similar emotionally for supporters of Hillary Clinton in 2016, when all the polls and analyses - and even many early returns - seemed to favor her, but the election went to Trump, despite her winning the popular vote. But early estimates and measures aren't always right. You're claiming that the mail-in was filled with hundreds of thousands of fraudulent votes. But what if there wasn't fraud? What would have happened?


In most states, the mail-in ballots are processed later than the in-person ballots. So what we'd expect to see is that the early returns will reflect more the in-person voting, and the later returns will reflect more the mail-in voting. Note that out of 150 million votes cast in this election, a hundred thousand votes is less than 0.1%. This year, it's no secret that Democrats are more concerned about covid-19 than Republicans are. Concerned about filing in with thousands of others, a great many Democrats voted by mail. So I'll offer two possibilities:

1) Legal Democrat voters were more concerned about covid-19, and on average, they used mail-in voting more - for a difference of a few percent.

2) Legal Republican voters used mail-in voting exactly as much as the Democrats.

I think that #1 is at least reasonably believable, given the different rhetoric between the parties. And if it was true, then the later mail-in returns would favor Biden.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 05, 2020, 03:51:14 PM
Another thing that people are ignoring is that there were a fair amount of Republicans who voted for Trump in 2016, who did not vote for him in 2020. When megadonors like Sheldon Adelson are turning their back on Trump, you kmow he's in Trouble. And Steve Bannon himself (he's a criminal scumbag, yes, but he's also a shrewd political operative, by any estimation) said that groups like The Lincoln Project would only need to peel away 3 or 4 percent of Trump voters in order to deny him a 2020 win. In the end, I think Republicans had a lot to do with Trump's defeat. I think there were a lot of R's who either aren't evangelicals, or who gritted their teeth and voted for Trump on the economy and judgeships. Many of these have turned on him because of the direct negative impact this administration's inept Coronavirus response has had on the economy. Well, that and "scandal fatigue". The Lincoln Project is not an anomaly. There are a lot of R's who voted for their party's nominee, hoping that he would at least make an attempt to rise to the challenges of his office. The difference between these voters and the MAGA crowd, is that the Lincoln Project types are smart enough to see, and mature enough to admit, that they made a mistake.

The truth of the matter is that if Trump had the maturity to have reigned in his ego, even a tiny fraction, and put just a bit more effort (you know, more than "none") into actually doing his job, instead of "owning the libs", he probably would have coasted to a second term. The hilarious part of watching conservative denial over Biden's victory is that the fault is really Trump's own.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 05, 2020, 04:20:14 PM
Another thing that people are ignoring is that there were a fair amount of Republicans who voted for Trump in 2016, who did not vote for him in 2020. When megadonors like Sheldon Adelson are turning their back on Trump, you kmow he's in Trouble. And Steve Bannon himself (he's a criminal scumbag, yes, but he's also a shrewd political operative, by any estimation) said that groups like The Lincoln Project would only need to peel away 3 or 4 percent of Trump voters in order to deny him a 2020 win. In the end, I think Republicans had a lot to do with Trump's defeat. I think there were a lot of R's who either aren't evangelicals, or who gritted their teeth and voted for Trump on the economy and judgeships. Many of these have turned on him because of the direct negative impact this administration's inept Coronavirus response has had on the economy. Well, that and "scandal fatigue". The Lincoln Project is not an anomaly. There are a lot of R's who voted for their party's nominee, hoping that he would at least make an attempt to rise to the challenges of his office. The difference between these voters and the MAGA crowd, is that the Lincoln Project types are smart enough to see, and mature enough to admit, that they made a mistake.

The truth of the matter is that if Trump had the maturity to have reigned in his ego, even a tiny fraction, and put just a bit more effort (you know, more than "none") into actually doing his job, instead of "owning the libs", he probably would have coasted to a second term. The hilarious part of watching conservative denial over Biden's victory is that the fault is really Trump's own.

As soon as Trump got his third Supreme Court appointee confirmed, I knew he was toast. A lot of conservatives and moderates I know were only barely supporting him to begin with and it was over the supreme court. Once that issue was firmly settled, the last reason to support Trump went away for them.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 05, 2020, 05:01:48 PM
Another thing that people are ignoring is that there were a fair amount of Republicans who voted for Trump in 2016, who did not vote for him in 2020. When megadonors like Sheldon Adelson are turning their back on Trump, you kmow he's in Trouble. And Steve Bannon himself (he's a criminal scumbag, yes, but he's also a shrewd political operative, by any estimation) said that groups like The Lincoln Project would only need to peel away 3 or 4 percent of Trump voters in order to deny him a 2020 win. In the end, I think Republicans had a lot to do with Trump's defeat. I think there were a lot of R's who either aren't evangelicals, or who gritted their teeth and voted for Trump on the economy and judgeships. Many of these have turned on him because of the direct negative impact this administration's inept Coronavirus response has had on the economy. Well, that and "scandal fatigue". The Lincoln Project is not an anomaly. There are a lot of R's who voted for their party's nominee, hoping that he would at least make an attempt to rise to the challenges of his office. The difference between these voters and the MAGA crowd, is that the Lincoln Project types are smart enough to see, and mature enough to admit, that they made a mistake.

The truth of the matter is that if Trump had the maturity to have reigned in his ego, even a tiny fraction, and put just a bit more effort (you know, more than "none") into actually doing his job, instead of "owning the libs", he probably would have coasted to a second term. The hilarious part of watching conservative denial over Biden's victory is that the fault is really Trump's own.

How do you reconcile your facts like Lincoln Project peeling away 3 or 4 percent of Trumps vote with Trump increasing his vote from 62 million to 74 million?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 05, 2020, 05:49:48 PM
Another thing that people are ignoring is that there were a fair amount of Republicans who voted for Trump in 2016, who did not vote for him in 2020. When megadonors like Sheldon Adelson are turning their back on Trump, you kmow he's in Trouble. And Steve Bannon himself (he's a criminal scumbag, yes, but he's also a shrewd political operative, by any estimation) said that groups like The Lincoln Project would only need to peel away 3 or 4 percent of Trump voters in order to deny him a 2020 win. In the end, I think Republicans had a lot to do with Trump's defeat. I think there were a lot of R's who either aren't evangelicals, or who gritted their teeth and voted for Trump on the economy and judgeships. Many of these have turned on him because of the direct negative impact this administration's inept Coronavirus response has had on the economy. Well, that and "scandal fatigue". The Lincoln Project is not an anomaly. There are a lot of R's who voted for their party's nominee, hoping that he would at least make an attempt to rise to the challenges of his office. The difference between these voters and the MAGA crowd, is that the Lincoln Project types are smart enough to see, and mature enough to admit, that they made a mistake.

The truth of the matter is that if Trump had the maturity to have reigned in his ego, even a tiny fraction, and put just a bit more effort (you know, more than "none") into actually doing his job, instead of "owning the libs", he probably would have coasted to a second term. The hilarious part of watching conservative denial over Biden's victory is that the fault is really Trump's own.

How do you reconcile your facts like Lincoln Project peeling away 3 or 4 percent of Trumps vote with Trump increasing his vote from 62 million to 74 million?

Higher overall turnout, which explains why those same people voted for Republican House and Republican state legislators more than expected, while voting for Biden?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 05, 2020, 06:10:39 PM
Greetings!

Tim Pool discusses various political events.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 05, 2020, 06:35:19 PM
Read a few entertaining pieces on how Trump's diehards are like bigfoot hunters. They will claim something is evidence even when it is not and will seek to refute logic with "belief" in the existence of the myth they so desperately want to be true.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/us-elections-government/ny-gop-republican-bigfoot-denver-riggleman-20201204-deemyxqp3rct7eezgkfjowiahm-story.html (https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/us-elections-government/ny-gop-republican-bigfoot-denver-riggleman-20201204-deemyxqp3rct7eezgkfjowiahm-story.html)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/denver-riggleman-bigfoot-qanon/2020/11/26/d8de7274-2dbf-11eb-bae0-50bb17126614_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/denver-riggleman-bigfoot-qanon/2020/11/26/d8de7274-2dbf-11eb-bae0-50bb17126614_story.html)

Here's an even weirder side note to the same thing:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/you-know-what-they-say-bigfoot-big-tent/2018/07/31/120486f4-94f4-11e8-a679-b09212fb69c2_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/you-know-what-they-say-bigfoot-big-tent/2018/07/31/120486f4-94f4-11e8-a679-b09212fb69c2_story.html)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 05, 2020, 06:46:29 PM
Another thing that people are ignoring is that there were a fair amount of Republicans who voted for Trump in 2016, who did not vote for him in 2020. When megadonors like Sheldon Adelson are turning their back on Trump, you kmow he's in Trouble. And Steve Bannon himself (he's a criminal scumbag, yes, but he's also a shrewd political operative, by any estimation) said that groups like The Lincoln Project would only need to peel away 3 or 4 percent of Trump voters in order to deny him a 2020 win. In the end, I think Republicans had a lot to do with Trump's defeat. I think there were a lot of R's who either aren't evangelicals, or who gritted their teeth and voted for Trump on the economy and judgeships. Many of these have turned on him because of the direct negative impact this administration's inept Coronavirus response has had on the economy. Well, that and "scandal fatigue". The Lincoln Project is not an anomaly. There are a lot of R's who voted for their party's nominee, hoping that he would at least make an attempt to rise to the challenges of his office. The difference between these voters and the MAGA crowd, is that the Lincoln Project types are smart enough to see, and mature enough to admit, that they made a mistake.

The truth of the matter is that if Trump had the maturity to have reigned in his ego, even a tiny fraction, and put just a bit more effort (you know, more than "none") into actually doing his job, instead of "owning the libs", he probably would have coasted to a second term. The hilarious part of watching conservative denial over Biden's victory is that the fault is really Trump's own.

How do you reconcile your facts like Lincoln Project peeling away 3 or 4 percent of Trumps vote with Trump increasing his vote from 62 million to 74 million?

Trump got more votes than he did last time. Biden got more votes than any candidate ever, and part of that was R's voting against Trump. I also know R's who sat out 2016 because they didn't like Trump, who voted for Biden this time.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 05, 2020, 07:40:01 PM

Biden got more votes than any candidate ever, and part of that was R's voting against Trump. I also know R's who sat out 2016 because they didn't like Trump, who voted for Biden this time.

Oh, yeah. I forgot that part. "Sleepy" Biden getting the most votes ever just seems improbable to many people. Of course, I figure you got part of the reason for why that happened right. I don't find it improbable at all that some conservative Christians didn't like Trump's "pussy grabbing", or his picking on John McCain for instance.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 05, 2020, 08:14:07 PM

Biden got more votes than any candidate ever, and part of that was R's voting against Trump. I also know R's who sat out 2016 because they didn't like Trump, who voted for Biden this time.

Oh, yeah. I forgot that part. "Sleepy" Biden getting the most votes ever just seems improbable to many people. Of course, I figure you got part of the reason for why that happened right. I don't find it improbable at all that some conservative Christians didn't like Trump's "pussy grabbing", or his picking on John McCain for instance.

I guarantee you the McCain shit is a large part of why he lost Arizona.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 05, 2020, 09:42:54 PM


I guarantee you the McCain shit is a large part of why he lost Arizona.

That was one of the few things that genuinely pissed me off about Trump. Most of what Trump did was just annoying, but that one, really out of line. Him bashing McCain for being captured when Trump is a draft dodger, infuriating. How could SHARK defend shit like that?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 05, 2020, 10:25:59 PM


I guarantee you the McCain shit is a large part of why he lost Arizona.

That was one of the few things that genuinely pissed me off about Trump. Most of what Trump did was just annoying, but that one, really out of line. Him bashing McCain for being captured when Trump is a draft dodger, infuriating. How could SHARK defend shit like that?

Greetings!

Well, McCain was a veteran, and served his country well. However, that was a long time ago, and the man changed. Ultimately, his record as a veteran is not an issue.

As a *politician*--John McCain was a fucking RINO, and terrible. When McCain ran for election the first time--Conservative analysts highlighted his political record of betraying Conservatives and Conservative issues on a regular basis, and he was well known for constantly compromising with the goddamned Democrats. For myself, when McCain ran for election again against Obama in 2008, I was like, WTF? It showed me precisely how pathetic and broken the Republican Part was, and full of do-nothing, greedy, corrupt fucking RINO's the Republican Party had become at that time.

So, opposing Senator McCain as a worthless, fucking RINO politician I believe is entirely justified.

President Trump's quarrel with Senator McCain is what it is. Personally, I think President Trump should have kept more of his personal feelings and attitudes to himself, as discussing them in a public venue held no political advantage. President Trump has not always expressed his views about a number of issues in the best way possible. I have never believed that President Trump is perfect, in any way. There have been occasions where he put his foot in his mouth, so to speak. There are issues he has discussed that while his sentiment or base argument was correct, valid, or otherwise true, he expressed such a view in the wrong manner, in a manner that invited misunderstanding, invited offense, or left him open to exaggerated political attack in the media--when on such occasions, he could have avoided considerable misunderstanding, or outright opposition, based on just expressing it better.

So, I think that President Trump could have handled his feud with Senator McCain in a politically more effective and advantageous manner.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 05, 2020, 10:59:54 PM
That's horseshit. Trump specifically denigrated McCain's service ("I like guys who weren't captured"), and by extension the service of every POW. It wasn't a policy dispute. Diaper Donnie got his rich father to buy his way out of military service. Then he had the fucking temerity to cast aspersions on someone who didn't rely on a well connected father to avoid service, or even to get released from a fucking POW camp where he was routinely being tortured, though he had the opportunity to do so. This isn't like telling someone they "look good for their age". Its not a Freudian slip or an inelegant turn of phrase. Trump is really just a flaming sack of dog shit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 05, 2020, 11:23:23 PM
That's horseshit. Trump specifically denigrated McCain's service ("I like guys who weren't captured"), and by extension the service of every POW. It wasn't a policy dispute. Diaper Donnie got his rich father to buy his way out of military service. Then he had the fucking temerity to cast aspersions on someone who didn't rely on a well connected father to avoid service, or even to get released from a fucking POW camp where he was routinely being tortured, though he had the opportunity to do so. This isn't like telling someone they "look good for their age". Its not a Freudian slip or an inelegant turn of phrase. Trump is really just a flaming sack of dog shit.

Greetings!

Well, I disagree. My opinions are not horseshit.

On another note, it is always good when cock-sucking Marxist Democrats are choked with dogshit.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 06, 2020, 12:02:03 AM
Greetings!

President Trump holds a fantastic rally in Georgia!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 06, 2020, 12:11:53 AM

Greetings!

Well, I disagree. My opinions are not horseshit.

On another note, it is always good when cock-sucking Marxist Democrats are choked with dogshit.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

No my man, that is not an adequate response by any means. Trump attacking McCain for BEING A POW is not a policy dispute. Trump attacking McCain for being a POW is not about his disagreement with McCain on policy issues and thinking he was a Republican in Name Only. Trump attacking McCain for being a POW makes Trump a fucking piece of shit because he attacked all POWs when he did that. And given Trump did in fact dodge the draft by use of daddy's money, you as a Marine should be willing to hold Trump accountable for that rather than make excuses like he shouldn't have given that opinion.

No SHARK, it's not that Trump shouldn't have let that slip, it's that Trump actually thinking that should call into question Trump as a human being. Because decent human beings don't think being a POW is some moral failing. And decent human beings don't use their dad's money to dodge the military while bashing anyone in the military FOR THEIR SERVICE.

How can you sink so low as to try and deflect on that particular issue?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 06, 2020, 03:12:00 AM
Part of the problem is that the media have become utterly unreliable, and I’d argue worse so on the left, which I used to follow more than the right. Most leftists seem oblivious to it, while right-wingers are so aware of it that they are skeptical to anything that doesn’t “feel right” to them, because they are constantly being lied to (and by Republicans too by the way). I have debated people on a left-leaning forum, and they had no clue that Trump supporters had been murdered in the protests, that George Floyd had breathing problems before he was put on the ground, or that he had previously committed armed robbery of a pregnant woman. Or indeed that the Democrats, in trying to expose Russian collusion had been going after an informant for CIA, i.e. he was helping the US intelligence against the Russians. That was actually when the collusion story fell apart, but most leftists don’t know that it ever did.

The willingness on the right to believe just about anything is much greater, but the left is not immune to false information.

Trump supporters killed at protests? I was aware of one in Portland, and that the perpetrator was later shot by police (and that Donald Trump extolled this as a good and even intended result). I was unaware of the one in Denver on October 10. There have been more killings of BLM protesters, and the murderer in Kenosha became a hero of Trumpies.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled

The only breathing problem of George Floyd I was aware of was recovering from Covid-19, which he reportedly informed the police arresting him of. I was aware that he had criminal convictions although not in much detail but he had apparently turned his life around since release from prison in 2013. He allegedly passed a counterfeit $20 bill at a store and it seems possible that, having lost his job because of the pandemic, he committed that crime but also possible that he was unaware the bill was counterfeit. Do you think that any of this justifies killing George Floyd?

Your last comment about collusion investigations compromising a CIA informant, or even just that the collusion story fell apart, is going to need some links.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 06, 2020, 03:21:31 AM
Another thing that people are ignoring is that there were a fair amount of Republicans who voted for Trump in 2016, who did not vote for him in 2020. When megadonors like Sheldon Adelson are turning their back on Trump, you kmow he's in Trouble. And Steve Bannon himself (he's a criminal scumbag, yes, but he's also a shrewd political operative, by any estimation) said that groups like The Lincoln Project would only need to peel away 3 or 4 percent of Trump voters in order to deny him a 2020 win. In the end, I think Republicans had a lot to do with Trump's defeat. I think there were a lot of R's who either aren't evangelicals, or who gritted their teeth and voted for Trump on the economy and judgeships. Many of these have turned on him because of the direct negative impact this administration's inept Coronavirus response has had on the economy. Well, that and "scandal fatigue". The Lincoln Project is not an anomaly. There are a lot of R's who voted for their party's nominee, hoping that he would at least make an attempt to rise to the challenges of his office. The difference between these voters and the MAGA crowd, is that the Lincoln Project types are smart enough to see, and mature enough to admit, that they made a mistake.

The truth of the matter is that if Trump had the maturity to have reigned in his ego, even a tiny fraction, and put just a bit more effort (you know, more than "none") into actually doing his job, instead of "owning the libs", he probably would have coasted to a second term. The hilarious part of watching conservative denial over Biden's victory is that the fault is really Trump's own.

How do you reconcile your facts like Lincoln Project peeling away 3 or 4 percent of Trumps vote with Trump increasing his vote from 62 million to 74 million?

If you read the post you replied to, you would see that 3 to 4 percent by the Lincoln Project is attributed to Steve Bannon as a hypothetical that would lead to Trump's defeat; since Trump lost but did not lose 3 to 4 percent, it was clearly not the only path to a Trump loss.

Turnout went up by 21 million votes to over 158 million, and Trump's percentage increased by 0.9% to 46.83%, while Biden improved by 3.25% over Clinton to 51.28%. It appears that Biden did worse than Clinton with minority voters but better with white voters; with so much fuss made over Obama-Trump voters, I expect that we will hear there were a lot of Obama-Trump-Biden voters. That Trump improved vote share in a pandemic and terrible economy does surprise me, but it was probably at the expense of third party candidates. Maybe Biden just peeled off the third party votes more than Trump did, as the non-two-party vote went from over 6% to under 2%.

I expect the Lincoln Project was mostly Never-Trumpers shifting to Lincoln voters, but it seems some number of Never-Trumpers became Trumpers too. Notice that Trump underperformed congressional candidates in both elections, so there were already Republican voters who didn't like Trump. Note that some conservatives (e.g., the New Hampshire Union Leader) endorsed Biden while encouraging votes for congressional Republicans.

"Sleepy" Biden getting the most votes ever just seems improbable to many people.

Sleepy, or just not interrupting his opponent while he was making mistakes? The Trump campaign made a lot of errors, and the October surprises weren't likely to come from anyone seen as credibly independent of the Trump campaign.

I guarantee you the McCain shit is a large part of why he lost Arizona.

That was one of the few things that genuinely pissed me off about Trump. Most of what Trump did was just annoying, but that one, really out of line. Him bashing McCain for being captured when Trump is a draft dodger, infuriating. How could SHARK defend shit like that?

It surprises me that the pandemic seems to have held so little sway with voters compared to issues that were already known in 2016.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 06, 2020, 03:23:57 AM
Diaper Donnie got his rich father to buy his way out of military service.

For some reason, they keep playing "Fortunate Son" at Trump rallies (despite a cease and desist letters from John Fogerty). The "fortunate son" is one whose family could buy his way out of the Vietnam draft.

"Some folks are born, silver spoon in hand
Lord, don't they help themselves, y'all
But when the taxman comes to the door
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale, yeah

It ain't me
It ain't me
I ain't no millionaire's son, no, no
It ain't me
It ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one, no"
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 06, 2020, 08:14:03 AM
      McCain's father was an Admiral, royalty, and the reason he could crash planes and still be a pilot despite doing things his way.  I find it strange that people are suddenly McCain supporters who I have a feeling never had a kind word to say about him before.  I guess if a hero to you is a guy who bombs peasants and then jumps out of the plane prematurely, injuring himself in the process, and then gets left in a POW camp for political clout by his father, good on ya.   I guess your other heros are heavy armored knights riding down fleeing peasants after a route? 

    Trump's attack on McCain did not bother me a bit, I know when he spoke of McCain I know he is talking about a guy who L O V E S to get people into wars despite, from his own record, not being so great at it. You guys talk about trump privilege and seem to have no idea what sort of influence an Admiral has in the world, much less how much they have in the military.

     It is an odd world, where I watch right leaning people try to find incidents of racist behavior or speech from lefties, and from lefties I watch them suddenly champion warmongering asshats who have every thing they got in life from their last names.
 




Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 06, 2020, 08:22:44 AM
  Right leaning people do not have a problem believing anything.  But in my opinion only a FOOL believes things from people who have explicitly pointed out they are in fact their enemies, and they hate them.   So forgive me for not taking information from my stated enemies as the gospel.  I guess had they not told me they hate me, that they are my enemies and they will celebrate the day I leave this earth, I might be more inclined to accept information they choose to share.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 06, 2020, 09:04:04 AM
      McCain's father was an Admiral, royalty, and the reason he could crash planes and still be a pilot despite doing things his way.  I find it strange that people are suddenly McCain supporters who I have a feeling never had a kind word to say about him before.  I guess if a hero to you is a guy who bombs peasants and then jumps out of the plane prematurely, injuring himself in the process, and then gets left in a POW camp for political clout by his father, good on ya.   I guess your other heros are heavy armored knights riding down fleeing peasants after a route? 

    Trump's attack on McCain did not bother me a bit, I know when he spoke of McCain I know he is talking about a guy who L O V E S to get people into wars despite, from his own record, not being so great at it. You guys talk about trump privilege and seem to have no idea what sort of influence an Admiral has in the world, much less how much they have in the military.

     It is an odd world, where I watch right leaning people try to find incidents of racist behavior or speech from lefties, and from lefties I watch them suddenly champion warmongering asshats who have every thing they got in life from their last names.
 

You assume that I only became a fan of McCain after he began to oppose Trump. This isn't the case. I have respected, if not always agreed with him, for decades.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 06, 2020, 09:54:17 AM
Part of the problem is that the media have become utterly unreliable, and I’d argue worse so on the left, which I used to follow more than the right. Most leftists seem oblivious to it, while right-wingers are so aware of it that they are skeptical to anything that doesn’t “feel right” to them, because they are constantly being lied to (and by Republicans too by the way). I have debated people on a left-leaning forum, and they had no clue that Trump supporters had been murdered in the protests, that George Floyd had breathing problems before he was put on the ground, or that he had previously committed armed robbery of a pregnant woman. Or indeed that the Democrats, in trying to expose Russian collusion had been going after an informant for CIA, i.e. he was helping the US intelligence against the Russians. That was actually when the collusion story fell apart, but most leftists don’t know that it ever did.

The willingness on the right to believe just about anything is much greater, but the left is not immune to false information.

Trump supporters killed at protests? I was aware of one in Portland, and that the perpetrator was later shot by police (and that Donald Trump extolled this as a good and even intended result). I was unaware of the one in Denver on October 10. There have been more killings of BLM protesters, and the murderer in Kenosha became a hero of Trumpies.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled

The only breathing problem of George Floyd I was aware of was recovering from Covid-19, which he reportedly informed the police arresting him of. I was aware that he had criminal convictions although not in much detail but he had apparently turned his life around since release from prison in 2013. He allegedly passed a counterfeit $20 bill at a store and it seems possible that, having lost his job because of the pandemic, he committed that crime but also possible that he was unaware the bill was counterfeit. Do you think that any of this justifies killing George Floyd?

Your last comment about collusion investigations compromising a CIA informant, or even just that the collusion story fell apart, is going to need some links.

Do I think that justifies killing George Floyd? Of course not. I’m not so sure he was actually killed though. The initial video released was cut to show only the worst possible case for the police officers. But I won’t miss a guy who forced himself into a pregnant woman’s house and threatened her with a gun. I believe that the whole case should be investigated, with all the info, unlike the hysterical reactions based on incomplete info, trial-by-mob guilty-by-association some people seem to prefer. Meanwhile leftists convince themselves that such a case happening to a white man would lead to a greater outrage. Well, similar things have happened to white people before, and nobody gave a shit. USA is not a racist country, it’s a race-hysterical country. As a side note notice also the hysteria surrounding the “smirking kid” vs the Native American with the drum. I watched the same video as everyone else and saw absolutely nothing newsworthy happening.

Funny thing about the killings is that the right-wingers doing the shooting tend to look more like self defense (see Kenosha) while killings by lefties look more like straight up executions (Portland), even when seeing greatly cut down videos of the events, but again let’s hope we get some thorough investigations and trials. Leftists being more violent at protests is something I have observed first hand though. They seriously need to clean up the garbage among their ranks.

The “Russian collusion” guy’s name is Carter Page.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 06, 2020, 10:34:48 AM
  I find it strange that people are suddenly McCain supporters who I have a feeling never had a kind word to say about him before.  I guess if a hero to you is a guy who bombs peasants... 
Can we not go back to referring to Vietnam War vets as baby-killers and the like, OK?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 06, 2020, 11:30:39 AM
      McCain's father was an Admiral, royalty, and the reason he could crash planes and still be a pilot despite doing things his way.  I find it strange that people are suddenly McCain supporters who I have a feeling never had a kind word to say about him before.

I was always a McCain supporter and was happy to vote for him for President. His health care proposal remains the best one I've seen of the very many that have been proposed, and was way better than Obamacare.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 06, 2020, 11:59:07 AM
Double Post
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 06, 2020, 12:03:45 PM
You know, you can dislike McCain because of his policy decisions and the fact that he was the democrats' pet republican, without even going anywhere near his military service.

Then again, claiming to now be a McCain supporter after his death just means that you are desperately looking for some substance about him that wasn't there when he was alive.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 06, 2020, 12:42:54 PM
  I find it strange that people are suddenly McCain supporters who I have a feeling never had a kind word to say about him before.  I guess if a hero to you is a guy who bombs peasants... 
Can we not go back to referring to Vietnam War vets as baby-killers and the like, OK?
  You said baby killers... so stop saying it?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: TNMalt on December 06, 2020, 01:19:35 PM
Trump's rally in Georgia was full on crazy. Good account of the crazy train here.
https://thebulwark.com/the-devil-went-down-to-georgia/
And Trump could never comprehend military service. He doesn't understand decisions that don't benefit him.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 06, 2020, 01:41:36 PM
Trump's rally in Georgia was full on crazy. Good account of the crazy train here.
https://thebulwark.com/the-devil-went-down-to-georgia/
And Trump could never comprehend military service. He doesn't understand decisions that don't benefit him.

  The problem is his kind of crazy is contagious.  I do doubt a guy who was already running business before he was finished with high school has little understanding of basically being a drone for people who tell you where to go, what to do, when to line up for shots, etc.  This is not a slag on anyone who has served in the military, it is the absolute truth.  You are essentially property when you enlist.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 06, 2020, 01:44:36 PM
Trump's rally in Georgia was full on crazy. Good account of the crazy train here.
https://thebulwark.com/the-devil-went-down-to-georgia/
And Trump could never comprehend military service. He doesn't understand decisions that don't benefit him.

  The problem is his kind of crazy is contagious.  I do doubt a guy who was already running business before he was finished with high school has little understanding of basically being a drone for people who tell you where to go, what to do, when to line up for shots, etc.  This is not a slag on anyone who has served in the military, it is the absolute truth.  You are essentially property when you enlist.

"Running Businesses" lmao. There's little evidence of Trump being successful in business. He inherited hundreds of millions and pissed it away. His lack of understanding the military mindset has nothing to do with being a Captain of Industry and everything to do with being a narcissistic sociopath.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 06, 2020, 01:52:30 PM
Trump's rally in Georgia was full on crazy. Good account of the crazy train here.
https://thebulwark.com/the-devil-went-down-to-georgia/
And Trump could never comprehend military service. He doesn't understand decisions that don't benefit him.

  The problem is his kind of crazy is contagious.  I do doubt a guy who was already running business before he was finished with high school has little understanding of basically being a drone for people who tell you where to go, what to do, when to line up for shots, etc.  This is not a slag on anyone who has served in the military, it is the absolute truth.  You are essentially property when you enlist.

"Running Businesses" lmao. There's little evidence of Trump being successful in business. He inherited hundreds of millions and pissed it away. His lack of understanding the military mindset has nothing to do with being a Captain of Industry and everything to do with being a narcissistic sociopath.
      How many people has he employed for how many years?  I know several people who inherited a bunch of money.  Most of them never did a thing.  As for narcissist sociopaths, that is pretty much any national level politician, so he has plenty of company.   There are also a few of those in the military as well. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 06, 2020, 01:57:11 PM
Trump's rally in Georgia was full on crazy. Good account of the crazy train here.
https://thebulwark.com/the-devil-went-down-to-georgia/
And Trump could never comprehend military service. He doesn't understand decisions that don't benefit him.

I love the byline about the guy who wrote that....

Quote from: The Bulwark article

Tim Miller
Tim Miller is The Bulwark’s writer-at-large. He was previously political director for Republican Voters Against Trump, communications director for Jeb Bush 2016, and spokesman for the Republican National Committee.

No possible bias to see here....
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 06, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
Trump's rally in Georgia was full on crazy. Good account of the crazy train here.
https://thebulwark.com/the-devil-went-down-to-georgia/
And Trump could never comprehend military service. He doesn't understand decisions that don't benefit him.

  The problem is his kind of crazy is contagious.  I do doubt a guy who was already running business before he was finished with high school has little understanding of basically being a drone for people who tell you where to go, what to do, when to line up for shots, etc.  This is not a slag on anyone who has served in the military, it is the absolute truth.  You are essentially property when you enlist.

"Running Businesses" lmao. There's little evidence of Trump being successful in business. He inherited hundreds of millions and pissed it away. His lack of understanding the military mindset has nothing to do with being a Captain of Industry and everything to do with being a narcissistic sociopath.

Well, he did vastly improve the American economy after the Obama Administration's doldrums....

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 06, 2020, 02:55:33 PM
The only breathing problem of George Floyd I was aware of was recovering from Covid-19, which he reportedly informed the police arresting him of. I was aware that he had criminal convictions although not in much detail but he had apparently turned his life around since release from prison in 2013. He allegedly passed a counterfeit $20 bill at a store and it seems possible that, having lost his job because of the pandemic, he committed that crime but also possible that he was unaware the bill was counterfeit. Do you think that any of this justifies killing George Floyd?

One of the side effects of over dosing on Fentanyl is breathing problems and or death.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 06, 2020, 03:14:04 PM
  Right leaning people do not have a problem believing anything.

Very, very true. And that's most of the problem right there.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 06, 2020, 03:18:12 PM
  Right leaning people do not have a problem believing anything.

Very, very true. And that's most of the problem right there.

So what do you expect the Police to do, shoot the Fentanyl out?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kael on December 06, 2020, 03:20:29 PM

Well, he did vastly improve the American economy after the Obama Administration's doldrums....

Unemployment rate (Obama): 5.3% decrease
Unemployment rate (Trump): 1.2% decrease (excluding the pandemic, of course)

GDP rate (Obama): +2.5%
GDP rate (Trump): +2.6% (excluding pandemic)

Debt ratio (Obama): 76.4%
Debt ratio (Trump): 79.2% (excluding, pandemic)

Trump's sizable debt increase (due to 2018 tax cuts) more than wipes out any GDP gains during that time.

The pandemic numbers will make all his legacy numbers look even more horrible, naturally.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 06, 2020, 03:22:26 PM
The willingness on the right to believe just about anything is much greater, but the left is not immune to false information.

The right will believe just about anything and on the other hand even they cant gag down the stuff people like CNN put out.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kael on December 06, 2020, 03:23:08 PM

Well, he did vastly improve the American economy after the Obama Administration's doldrums....

Unemployment rate (Obama): 5.3% decrease
Unemployment rate (Trump): 1.2% decrease (excluding the pandemic, of course)

GDP rate (Obama): +2.5%
GDP rate (Trump): +2.6% (excluding pandemic)

Debt ratio (Obama): 76.4%
Debt ratio (Trump): 79.2% (excluding, pandemic)

Trump's sizable debt increase (due to 2018 tax cuts) more than wipes out any GDP gains during that time.

The pandemic numbers will make all his legacy numbers look even more horrible, naturally, but he did a great job riding Obama's coattails, so I'll give him credit for that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 06, 2020, 03:26:05 PM
  Right leaning people do not have a problem believing anything.

Very, very true. And that's most of the problem right there.
  After "russian agent", russian collusion, and the dossier, I think you have about zero room to talk about the other end.  You might even say, the MASSIVE bias from the media may be the reason no one believes anything anyone says who has a different ideological perspective.  I would say THAT is the problem.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 06, 2020, 03:32:08 PM
Part of the problem is that the media have become utterly unreliable, and I’d argue worse so on the left, which I used to follow more than the right. Most leftists seem oblivious to it, while right-wingers are so aware of it that they are skeptical to anything that doesn’t “feel right” to them, because they are constantly being lied to (and by Republicans too by the way). I have debated people on a left-leaning forum, and they had no clue that Trump supporters had been murdered in the protests, that George Floyd had breathing problems before he was put on the ground, or that he had previously committed armed robbery of a pregnant woman. Or indeed that the Democrats, in trying to expose Russian collusion had been going after an informant for CIA, i.e. he was helping the US intelligence against the Russians. That was actually when the collusion story fell apart, but most leftists don’t know that it ever did.

The willingness on the right to believe just about anything is much greater, but the left is not immune to false information.

Trump supporters killed at protests? I was aware of one in Portland, and that the perpetrator was later shot by police (and that Donald Trump extolled this as a good and even intended result). I was unaware of the one in Denver on October 10. There have been more killings of BLM protesters, and the murderer in Kenosha became a hero of Trumpies.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled

The only breathing problem of George Floyd I was aware of was recovering from Covid-19, which he reportedly informed the police arresting him of. I was aware that he had criminal convictions although not in much detail but he had apparently turned his life around since release from prison in 2013. He allegedly passed a counterfeit $20 bill at a store and it seems possible that, having lost his job because of the pandemic, he committed that crime but also possible that he was unaware the bill was counterfeit. Do you think that any of this justifies killing George Floyd?

Your last comment about collusion investigations compromising a CIA informant, or even just that the collusion story fell apart, is going to need some links.

Do I think that justifies killing George Floyd? Of course not. I’m not so sure he was actually killed though. The initial video released was cut to show only the worst possible case for the police officers.

Cue the conspiracy theories. George Floyd, crisis actor? Autopsy says homicide. Bad luck for Chauvin that he happened to kneel on a guy's neck for over 8 minutes while somebody else was killing him.

Quote
But I won’t miss a guy who forced himself into a pregnant woman’s house and threatened her with a gun.

I won't miss a president who is responsible for the unnecessary deaths of two hundred thousand Americans. At least George Floyd served the time for his wrongdoing.

Quote
I believe that the whole case should be investigated, with all the info, unlike the hysterical reactions based on incomplete info, trial-by-mob guilty-by-association some people seem to prefer.

It has been investigated, and the investigation has resulted in charges against the officers. It was the catalyst for a lot of protests, but there's a long history of disparate treatments of blacks. Previous incidents that might have prompted the same level of widely supported protests may not have simply because there wasn't the same strong direct evidence, or maybe this was just the last straw. Riots after Rodney King was beaten would have been seen very differently without the videotape of that beating. I'm OK with people not waiting until there's an absolutely saintly victim with hours of video from every angle for hours before and after the event.

Quote
Meanwhile leftists convince themselves that such a case happening to a white man would lead to a greater outrage. Well, similar things have happened to white people before, and nobody gave a shit. USA is not a racist country, it’s a race-hysterical country. As a side note notice also the hysteria surrounding the “smirking kid” vs the Native American with the drum. I watched the same video as everyone else and saw absolutely nothing newsworthy happening.

I think leftists believe that the same thing wouldn't usually happen to a white man in the same situation. Rarer cases wouldn't lead to the same outrage; prosecuting the officers responsible for a white victim would probably satisfy most people. Again, it's not a single incident; it's the systemic racism that causes this to happen over and over to blacks.

Quote
Funny thing about the killings is that the right-wingers doing the shooting tend to look more like self defense (see Kenosha) while killings by lefties look more like straight up executions (Portland), even when seeing greatly cut down videos of the events, but again let’s hope we get some thorough investigations and trials. Leftists being more violent at protests is something I have observed first hand though. They seriously need to clean up the garbage among their ranks.

Repotedly the Denver case started with the victim slapping an unlicensed security guard who then shot him. The other right-winger killed was part of a group that repeatedly sought to clash with protesters; there is little evidence of how the altercation proceeded.

Kyle Rittenhouse traveled from another state with a gun he couldn't legally own. Unlike with George Floyd, police ignored the white teenager when witnesses told them he had shot people. The first degree murder charges seem very appropriate. Those protests were prompted by the shooting of Jacob Blake, shot 7 times with little more justification than a knife being subsequently found in his car.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/27/facebook-posts/no-jacob-blake-did-not-brandish-knife-gun-kenosha/

Quote
The “Russian collusion” guy’s name is Carter Page.

Any link to the collusion story falling apart? The Horowitz report found serious misconduct in the FISA applications. Of course, the DOJ under Barr altered Peter Strzok's notes in the Michael Flynn case.

Quote from: Wikipedia page on Horowitz
The report found that the FBI had a legal "authorized investigative purpose and with sufficient factual predication" to ask for court approval to begin surveillance of Carter Page, a former Trump campaign adviser.

The Russian collusion had relatively little to do with Carter Page; look rather at the prosecutions of Paul Manafort, Roger Stone and others and the Senate Intelligence report. There's credible evidence for Russian collusion and no credible evidence for any inaccuracy in the presidential election outcome.

  Right leaning people do not have a problem believing anything.

Very, very true. And that's most of the problem right there.
  After "russian agent", russian collusion, and the dossier, I think you have about zero room to talk about the other end.  You might even say, the MASSIVE bias from the media may be the reason no one believes anything anyone says who has a different ideological perspective.  I would say THAT is the problem.

Yes, the other side of the problem is the right-leaning believing nothing, no matter the evidence for it.

The common element is not belief or disbelief; it's the disconnect from evidence.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 06, 2020, 03:41:50 PM
Well, he did vastly improve the American economy after the Obama Administration's doldrums....

Even ignoring the pandemic which has left Trump with the worst economic record, the Obama economy was better, but I'm not interested in arguing over how to weight different elements or exactly how much credit or blame presidents should get. (Trump of course wants credit for stock market increases during the 2016 transition and for those in the 2020 transition.)

It's enough to point out that there's no Super Bowl win for the score after three quarters. Trump can have a tiny participation trophy; it's topped with the figure of a Confederate general.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 06, 2020, 03:43:01 PM
One of the side effects of over dosing on Fentanyl is breathing problems and or death.

Autopsy says homicide.

A defendant must take his victim as he finds him, and it is no defense that the victim is suffering from physical infirmities.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 06, 2020, 03:51:59 PM
One of the side effects of over dosing on Fentanyl is breathing problems and or death.

Autopsy says homicide.

A defendant must take his victim as he finds him, and it is no defense that the victim is suffering from physical infirmities.

Quote
The Hennepin County medical examiner said that Floyd bloodwork showed a “fatal level of fentanyl,” according to court documents, but he didn’t say this killed him.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/25/blog-posting/two-autopsies-found-george-floyds-death-was-homici/ (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/25/blog-posting/two-autopsies-found-george-floyds-death-was-homici/)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 06, 2020, 04:07:19 PM
The right will believe just about anything and on the other hand even they cant gag down the stuff people like CNN put out.

What they'll believe is driven mostly by what they want to be true; what they'll not believe is driven mostly by what they want to not be true. They'll immediately tout a CNN story if it makes a political opponent look bad. It's all truthiness, not truth.

People rejoice in claims that reinforce what they want to be true; the important thing is to try to verify it before promulgating what may be misinformation. The right don't do that; they don't even care when their unfounded beliefs contradict each other.

One of the side effects of over dosing on Fentanyl is breathing problems and or death.

Autopsy says homicide.

A defendant must take his victim as he finds him, and it is no defense that the victim is suffering from physical infirmities.

Quote
The Hennepin County medical examiner said that Floyd bloodwork showed a “fatal level of fentanyl,” according to court documents, but he didn’t say this killed him.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/25/blog-posting/two-autopsies-found-george-floyds-death-was-homici/ (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/25/blog-posting/two-autopsies-found-george-floyds-death-was-homici/)

Did you read your own source? Or just get a clue from the URL itself? The claim that Floyd died of a drug overdose is ruled False. Autopsy says homicide, as I said.

To explain the point you clearly did not understand, speculation that Floyd might have died later that day if Chauvin hadn't killed him is no defense to the charge of having killed him. The legal penalties for depriving a person of one hour of life by killing him is the same as depriving him of decades of life by killing him.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 06, 2020, 05:29:21 PM

Cue the conspiracy theories.....

The fact that he said he couldn't breathe before he was put on the ground doesn't bother you? Or that he was so high that he was visibly losing it? What was the motive for the police officers, some white and some Asian, to intentionally harm him with death as a result?

The main reason why this is more likely to happen to black people is because crime and drug use are higher in black communities. There really is a "gangster culture" among a portion of the African Americans. Blaming "systemic racism" is part of the problem, because it ignores the cultural problems which is internal to current black culture. If the white majority are so racist, how come East Asians and South Asians earn more than whites in America? Are whites positively inclined towards people who look like Indians and East Asians? Besides, black people who arrived from Africa more recently also do great in America. My wife and I are an "interracial couple" (and very visibly so) living in America, and we honestly don't see the notorious American racism. 

Besides, where was the "systemic racism" when Bill Cosby was raping white women, or OJ Simpson got away with murdering one? Where were the notorious KKK with all their nooses and burning crosses? The American left is hysterical about race, for historical reasons of course, but it's not currently going to any good places.

I won't miss Trump either, but that part is simply empty words, with nothing to do with the subject.

It had a lot to do with Carter Page, but you wouldn't know if you only listened to one side. The moment it didn't go anywhere they tried to bury it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 06, 2020, 06:17:12 PM
The right will believe just about anything and on the other hand even they cant gag down the stuff people like CNN put out.

What they'll believe is driven mostly by what they want to be true; what they'll not believe is driven mostly by what they want to not be true. They'll immediately tout a CNN story if it makes a political opponent look bad. It's all truthiness, not truth.

People rejoice in claims that reinforce what they want to be true; the important thing is to try to verify it before promulgating what may be misinformation. The right don't do that; they don't even care when their unfounded beliefs contradict each other.

One of the side effects of over dosing on Fentanyl is breathing problems and or death.

Autopsy says homicide.

A defendant must take his victim as he finds him, and it is no defense that the victim is suffering from physical infirmities.

Quote
The Hennepin County medical examiner said that Floyd bloodwork showed a “fatal level of fentanyl,” according to court documents, but he didn’t say this killed him.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/25/blog-posting/two-autopsies-found-george-floyds-death-was-homici/ (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/25/blog-posting/two-autopsies-found-george-floyds-death-was-homici/)

Did you read your own source? Or just get a clue from the URL itself? The claim that Floyd died of a drug overdose is ruled False. Autopsy says homicide, as I said.

To explain the point you clearly did not understand, speculation that Floyd might have died later that day if Chauvin hadn't killed him is no defense to the charge of having killed him. The legal penalties for depriving a person of one hour of life by killing him is the same as depriving him of decades of life by killing him.

Of course I read the source, that is how come I knew that he had a fatal overdose of Fentanyl.

As for homicide, that would be up to the prosecutors to prove.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on December 06, 2020, 06:50:22 PM
It had a lot to do with Carter Page, but you wouldn't know if you only listened to one side. The moment it didn't go anywhere they tried to bury it.

Yup.  CIA told FBI that Page was their resource and thus had contact with Russians as part of their work.  FBI omitted that in their FISA application and used Page as the excuse to open up Crossfire Hurricane.  They knowingly lied to the judge and are going to get away with it.

Low information DemonKKKrats are going to be the most bitter complainers when USA becomes full on fascist.  Enjoy Biden/Kamala you dipshits.  You get what you deserve at this point.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 06, 2020, 07:29:58 PM
Did you read your own source? Or just get a clue from the URL itself? The claim that Floyd died of a drug overdose is ruled False. Autopsy says homicide, as I said.

Of course I read the source, that is how come I knew that he had a fatal overdose of Fentanyl.

As for homicide, that would be up to the prosecutors to prove.

Reading but not understanding. Fatal overdose is irrelevant if it's not the cause of death, as your link says it is not. Cause of death was homicide; the charges brought include murder and manslaughter, which is what the prosecutors must prove. The cause of death will be relevant to prosecution and defense, but "he would have died anyway of X" is not a defense if X is not the cause of death.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 06, 2020, 07:42:21 PM
I always liked McCain, but there were warning signs. He was a member of the Keating 5, after all. And he ran an uninspired presidential campaign.

But nowadays, he's the replacement for George HW Bush -- a moderate and non-controversial opposition politician who can be safely lionized by the Democrats because he's dead. That allows them to prominently proclaim their bipartisanship without fear of contradiction, while at the same time blasting living Republicans for being too partisan.  It's never their peers who display statesmanlike qualities; that term only applies to those who have started to recede into the past.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 06, 2020, 07:53:46 PM
Did you read your own source? Or just get a clue from the URL itself? The claim that Floyd died of a drug overdose is ruled False. Autopsy says homicide, as I said.

Of course I read the source, that is how come I knew that he had a fatal overdose of Fentanyl.

As for homicide, that would be up to the prosecutors to prove.

Reading but not understanding. Fatal overdose is irrelevant if it's not the cause of death, as your link says it is not. Cause of death was homicide; the charges brought include murder and manslaughter, which is what the prosecutors must prove. The cause of death will be relevant to prosecution and defense, but "he would have died anyway of X" is not a defense if X is not the cause of death.

Not to mention the fact that you think it takes a highly trained officer 8 minutes to choke someone to death.

The ridiculousness just keeps piling up.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 06, 2020, 08:28:31 PM

Cue the conspiracy theories.....

The fact that he said he couldn't breathe before he was put on the ground doesn't bother you?

If he couldn't breathe before Chauvin knelt on his neck, maybe they should have called the ambulance then rather than after killing him?

Your naive belief that police would never commit crimes is laughable.

Quote
It had a lot to do with Carter Page, but you wouldn't know if you only listened to one side. The moment it didn't go anywhere they tried to bury it.

It's not clear that the surveillance would not have happened with the correct information that Carter Page had been a source for the CIA. Presumably the Carter Page lawsuit may shed light on that. Horowitz discounted bias as the motivation for the investigation; Durham was deployed to dispute that conclusion and to find dirt on Obama and Biden but apparently could not; another fizzled October surprise.

But the Russian investigation apparently did go somewhere, to multiple convictions and many possible obstruction charges that could have been pursued against Trump except for the DOJ policy of not indicting sitting presidents, and might still be. Carter Page does appear to have been irrelevant; pity the Republican leaders of the FBI chose to go after him. The people investigated who lied and obstructed justice were presumably the ones who committed crimes they had to hide; it's the coverup, as we learned in Watergate.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 06, 2020, 08:29:05 PM
I always liked McCain, but there were warning signs. He was a member of the Keating 5, after all. And he ran an uninspired presidential campaign.

But nowadays, he's the replacement for George HW Bush -- a moderate and non-controversial opposition politician who can be safely lionized by the Democrats because he's dead. That allows them to prominently proclaim their bipartisanship without fear of contradiction, while at the same time blasting living Republicans for being too partisan.  It's never their peers who display statesmanlike qualities; that term only applies to those who have started to recede into the past.

I voted for and supported HW Bush, Dole, W Bush, McCain, and Romney. I like Kasich and Rubio, Jeb Bush, and Christie before he imploded. I like Paul Ryan. Jindal, Walker, Rick Scott, and Perry were not bad either. In fact I am OK with Mike Pence in general. I might like Tom Cotton and Josh Hawley, after I see more of them.

You can pretend the only Republican is Trump, but that's nonsense. You know who is now in the past? Trump.  His policies are not particularly Republican. He's a populist, and that's what he does primarily and everything else is secondary to that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 06, 2020, 08:42:48 PM
But nowadays, he's the replacement for George HW Bush -- a moderate and non-controversial opposition politician who can be safely lionized by the Democrats because he's dead. That allows them to prominently proclaim their bipartisanship without fear of contradiction, while at the same time blasting living Republicans for being too partisan.  It's never their peers who display statesmanlike qualities; that term only applies to those who have started to recede into the past.

President-elect Biden and Senator John McCain were longtime friends in the Senate; McCain worked with Russ Feingold on campaign finance reform, and they shared a Profile in Courage Award.

At least President Trump has shown remarkable consistency, attacking the man both before and after his death.

I voted for and supported HW Bush, Dole, W Bush, McCain, and Romney. I like Kasich and Rubio, Jeb Bush, and Christie before he imploded. I like Paul Ryan. Jindal, Walker, Rick Scott, and Perry were not bad either. In fact I am OK with Mike Pence in general. I might like Tom Cotton and Josh Hawley, after I see more of them.

You can pretend the only Republican is Trump, but that's nonsense. You know who is now in the past? Trump.

I have in the past respected a few of those, but too many of them pushed dishonestly for their preferred policies. I respected Kasich in 2016 when, unlike Cruz, he did not grovel in front of Trump. I thought he was playing for a leadership role in the wreckage Trump would leave behind, but speaking at the DNC this year and so ruining his chances with Republicans suggests that was too cynical.

If most Republicans today don't deserve respect, it's because they rolled over for Trump.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 06, 2020, 08:44:30 PM
Not to mention the fact that you think it takes a highly trained officer 8 minutes to choke someone to death.

Yeah, too many witnesses to shoot him and plant a gun on the body so I guess they had to go the inefficient route.

Since when is choking people to death part of police training?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 06, 2020, 08:52:17 PM

Cue the conspiracy theories.....

The fact that he said he couldn't breathe before he was put on the ground doesn't bother you?

If he couldn't breathe before Chauvin knelt on his neck, maybe they should have called the ambulance then rather than after killing him?

Your naive belief that police would never commit crimes is laughable.


Oh yes, that is my general sentiment. The police are superhuman and can never commit crimes. Honest argument as usual.

It does seem a bit odd though. The guy has a huge (potentially lethal) amount of drugs in his system, also heart issues, and also Covid, also apparently sickle cell trait. But sure, it must have been second degree murder. The sheer massive pressure of public opinion, having been fed stories of white racism from the media ignoring similar cases with white people, couldn't have anything to do with it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 06, 2020, 08:56:47 PM
You can pretend the only Republican is Trump, but that's nonsense.
Pretending I ever said that is nonsense. I never mentioned Trump. I never even alluded to Trump.

Romney always struck me as a competent businessman and public official, but an absurdly bad choice for a presidential candidate in 2012. When you're coming out of the worst recession in a century, and one that was blamed on the financial industry, you don't pick someone from an investment capital firm. When the growing base of your party is worried about jobs being cut and shipped overseas, you don't pick someone known for slashing and burning companies, and shipping their jobs overseas. When the major plank your party is rallying around is opposition to a particular bill, you don't pick the person whose bill was used as a model. When the biggest rallying cry of the previous decade was "We are the 99%", you don't pick a top-tier 1er% who always looks awkward talking to normal people. I literally can't imagine a worst candidate in 2012. The fact that he did as good as he did was a sign that Obama could have easily been a 1 term president. It's just the two parties are so out of tune with their bases that they keep nominating the worst possible candidates (see 2016 for another example).

But right now, Romney seems to be setting himself up for a switch to the other party. He's lionized by the left not because he's this principled Republican, but because he's a Democrat who hasn't changed his spots yet.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 06, 2020, 09:00:11 PM
Is it me, or did this thread get real boring once @SHARK and I stopped posting? I, myself, had a death to worry about (my cousin's Father died of respiratory failure after battling for years with Neurofibromatosis. It'll probably be listed as COVID, even though it was an ongoing problem for the last 7-8 years).

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/sidney-powell-huge-bag-shredded-ballots-office-raffensperger-gabriel-sterling-investigated-video/

Quote
Sidney Powell: “In Georgia massive evidence of the shaving of votes and flipping to Biden exists in the machines… They’ve been erasing things and destroying evidence as fast as they can do it. I have in my office right now a huge bag of shredded ballots. I can’t wait to see what that discloses… The people of America are not going to allow our president to be defeated by fraudulent election mechanisms. And these people have used every manner of voter fraud you can imagine. It was heavily coordinated. It was heavily funded. They now have 25 lawyers up against us our little team of misfit toys who are trying to fight for truth and justice for the American people… We have scads of evidence… Mr. Raffensperger was flat out lying. There should be a criminal investigation of him and his deputy secretary’s finances around the $1o7 million Dominion contract that was suddenly awarded in Georgia when they didn’t need a new system.

Wow! What a crazy person! Good thing there is no such thing as voter fraud in this election! Here’s the PROOF:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1334993249082236931
https://twitter.com/robbhurstCPA/status/1335557576587665408
https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-fd11ab2/media/4712a921f8f27cbf8e5651ce3d906935.EokAS9vW8AAXJOe
https://twitter.com/TomFitton/status/1335356516124286979
https://twitter.com/CongressmanHice/status/1334919630339641345
https://twitter.com/TeamTrump/status/1335589049206263815

What more can happen?!! The election is over! According to posters in this thread, the people vote directly for the President! Proof:
https://twitter.com/TomFitton/status/1335610791526100993
https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/alito-demands-briefs-in-pennsylvania-congressmans-lawsuit-to-flip-the-election/

Though Alito originally called for response arguments from the Commonwealth to be filed by 4 p.m. on Wednesday, Dec. 9th, the case docket was changed Sunday morning to move that deadline up to Tuesday, Dec. 8, by 9 a.m.  The change is critical.  Pennsylvania’s members of the electoral college are due to meet at noon on Dec. 14th in Harrisburg to cast their votes for president.     Alito’s original Dec. 9th deadline failed to take that window into account.  His new deadline does.    Because the state is acting under a “direct grant of authority” from the U.S. Constitution to manage federal elections, the U.S. Supreme Court can become involved, he argues, and can determine whether the Pennsylvania statutory and constitutional regime of laws violates the U.S. Constitution.  Kelly invites the U.S. Supreme Court to conclude as such and, perhaps more dubiously, that the state court’s way of rubbishing the election violates his rights to petition the government and to receive due process under the First and Fourteenth Amendments thereto.   
State Supreme Court Judges and Secretaries of States basically created new Election Laws because of Covid. But we need to understand that the Legislatures are the only body to do that.What happens if SCOTUS invalidates PA election because vote by mail was unconstitutional, that ACT 77 violates the constitution
Will we see a domino effect where other states laws become unconstitutional, WI expanded vote by mail was created without the legislature, Georgias sign verification was passed without the legislature. If this happens what happens to Bidens 270 electoral votes. Once this happens what does the constitution say, doesn’t it go to the house, does each state get 1 vote. How many states are Rs and how many Ds, 26 Rs, 23 Ds.

Why Flynn was pardoned: He is no longer under a CORRUPT JUDGE’S GAG ORDER:
https://twitter.com/GenFlynn/status/1335441085166968833

Good thing Americans HATE Donald Trump, right? Because this legal stuff is sure getting in the way of PROGRESS:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/trump-258000-watching-rally-rsbn-258-times-viewers-joe-bidens-thanksgiving-speech-popular-democrat-universal-history/
https://twitter.com/DanScavino/status/1335407864664354816

Here is my take on the above information:
Too many people, including people in this thread, want ANYONE who do not THINK like them, TALK like them, WALK like them, EAT like them, SHIT like them, or even GAME like them to DIE IN A GAS CHAMBER, THEIR CHILDREN RAPED BY PAEDOPHILES, AND THEIR WIVES RAPED. This is the USA they want. They will do and say anything because they are INVALID HUMANS. They are PHILOSOPHICAL ZOMBIES. They attribute everything wrong with themselves on to their ENEMIES WHOM THEY CHARACTERIZE AS WRONG-THINKING, UNFEELING, AND NO LONGER HUMAN!
Remember the “FREE SPEECH ZONES”? Remember the “ROUNDING UP OF THE DESPICABLES?” Remember when Hillary lost, they claimed “ELECTION FRAUD WE DONT NEED ANY EVIDENCE”? Remember when they said “VIOLENCE is FREE SPEECH AND PRIVACY,  and they are too dangerous to EXIST”?
They say liberal is government helping people, helping the environment, and the less fortunate. WHICH PEOPLE IS THAT? WHOSE ENVIRONMENT IS THAT? WHO QUALIFIES AS LESS FORTUNATE? They don’t say. It certainly isn’t the average or everyday person or family! THEY WANTED TO TORTURE AND KILL US. Now, the shoe has been reversed. Enjoy being hobbled FUCKING AUTHORITARIAN DEGENERATES!
I only wish I could be alive to HANG YOU ALL BY THE NECK UNTIL DEAD – PARTICULARLY FOR WHAT YOU PEOPLE HAVE DONE TO ME AND MINE.
Ignore or trash the evidence. Or maybe WHINE about the AMOUNT OF PROOF, like Mr. Kim?
You look foolish doing so.
fnord.
 
PS: Rememinder - I AM a liberal, at least as far as LAWFULNESS goes, while the people here ARE NOT! The actual Definition: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/liberal
       Read it. Learn it. Live it. But, I swear - I WILL NEVER FORGET, NEVER FORGIVE, NEVER GIVE UP! WHERE WE GO ONE, WE GO ALL! Even if it is STRAIGHT TO HELL!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 06, 2020, 09:05:42 PM

It's enough to point out that there's no Super Bowl win for the score after three quarters. Trump can have a tiny participation trophy; it's topped with the figure of a Confederate general.

Yes, and you are being intellectually honest and not here just to troll.

Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on December 06, 2020, 09:27:36 PM
It's going to be HYSTERICAL when the Floyd cops get off on appeals.

"Autopsy said homicide!!!" LOL. Just wait until the autopsy falls apart in court. The coroner isn't going to survive cross-examination thanks to the pharmacological report and the video.

If they even get convicted in the first place. The jury clown car which has been the bane of so many high profile cases is going to be AMAZING in an age of social media on hyperdrive.

The entire Saint Floyd narrative will collapse in court, and even if / when the judge panders to the Burn Loot Murder fuckfaces, an appeals court will be the final say.

Personally, I'm expecting a mistrial.

Also, it's cute to see the leftists cucks still think the election's over.

After all the election fraud, I don't want a peaceful resolution via the state courts or the Supreme Court or even a 1825 repeat via the House & Senate. I'd truly love to see Trump go all Abe Lincoln Vampire Hunter and teach the commie garbage what a "dictator" really looks like!

The Tree of Liberty is mighty thirsty.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 06, 2020, 09:33:03 PM
Is it me, or did this thread get real boring once @SHARK and I stopped posting?
Just you. The partisanship gets tiring. It's like having kids screaming all day behind you.

Wow! What a crazy person! Good thing there is no such thing as voter fraud in this election! Here’s the PROOF:
The procedural links have correct information, and the arguments about jurisdiction seem reasonable (not a lawyer, so I can't assess whether they really hold up). Alito shifting the date ends a whole suite of conspiracy theories. I'd like to see more about those voting machines. If they're really turning out biased results when fed even numbers of ballots, that's a smoking gun.

Here is my take on the above information:
... and then you went full-on CAPS LOCK-stuck crazy.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 06, 2020, 09:55:50 PM
Is it me, or did this thread get real boring once @SHARK and I stopped posting?
Just you. The partisanship gets tiring. It's like having kids screaming all day behind you.

Wow! What a crazy person! Good thing there is no such thing as voter fraud in this election! Here’s the PROOF:
The procedural links have correct information, and the arguments about jurisdiction seem reasonable (not a lawyer, so I can't assess whether they really hold up). Alito shifting the date ends a whole suite of conspiracy theories. I'd like to see more about those voting machines. If they're really turning out biased results when fed even numbers of ballots, that's a smoking gun.

Here is my take on the above information:
... and then you went full-on CAPS LOCK-stuck crazy.
Huh? What's is a caps-lock? I never EVER caps lock except to go all bold. When I do that my browser likes to 'autocorrect' (i hate chromium!) Also the ad-blocker is hanging the system too much. Sorry if my BOLD STATEMENTS frighten you. Here, have some fun with these:
 https://www.theepochtimes.com/voting-machine-usb-drives-had-totals-altered-overnight-witness-in-nevada-election-contest-alleges_3604396.html
 https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-fd11ab2/media/bbd2930e3d1aac383aebf52f50803d88.EoY0p0iXMAA75UR
 https://twitter.com/RepGosar/status/1334888127668891649
 https://twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1334572762933805056
 https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1334588448943042560
 https://twitter.com/Wizard_Predicts/status/1334912358494461954

See? absolutely nothing to fear but fud itself!  ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 06, 2020, 10:01:37 PM
Is it me, or did this thread get real boring once @SHARK and I stopped posting?

It would be awesome if you stopped the Gish gallop bullshit. It's one of the least persuasive forms of argumentation, and you're particularly obvious in doing it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 06, 2020, 10:08:17 PM
Huh? What's is a caps-lock? I never EVER caps lock except to go all bold. When I do that my browser likes to 'autocorrect' (i hate chromium!) Also the ad-blocker is hanging the system too much. Sorry if my BOLD STATEMENTS frighten you. Here, have some fun with these:
 https://www.theepochtimes.com/voting-machine-usb-drives-had-totals-altered-overnight-witness-in-nevada-election-contest-alleges_3604396.html
 https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-fd11ab2/media/bbd2930e3d1aac383aebf52f50803d88.EoY0p0iXMAA75UR
 https://twitter.com/RepGosar/status/1334888127668891649
 https://twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1334572762933805056
 https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1334588448943042560
 https://twitter.com/Wizard_Predicts/status/1334912358494461954

See? absolutely nothing to fear but fud itself!  ;D
<caps lock on>THOSE ARE EITHER OLD OR DON'T MEAN A LOT WITHOUT ADDITIONAL CONTEXT. <caps lock off> I'm more interested in the test of the voting machines. That can be independently verified.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 06, 2020, 10:21:25 PM
Is it me, or did this thread get real boring once @SHARK and I stopped posting?

It would be awesome if you stopped the Gish gallop bullshit. It's one of the least persuasive forms of argumentation, and you're particularly obvious in doing it.
Oh. Well, why don't you come to my house and stop me. Your local Action Committee members know where I live.
Because, I will never stop.
ever.
Until I AM DEAD.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 06, 2020, 10:30:39 PM
Is it me, or did this thread get real boring once @SHARK and I stopped posting?

It would be awesome if you stopped the Gish gallop bullshit. It's one of the least persuasive forms of argumentation, and you're particularly obvious in doing it.
Oh. Well, why don't you come to my house and stop me. Your local Action Committee members know where I live.
Because, I will never stop.
ever.
Until I AM DEAD.
You're so silly. This places attracts CT nutters like flies on shit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 06, 2020, 10:57:43 PM
Is it me, or did this thread get real boring once @SHARK and I stopped posting?

It would be awesome if you stopped the Gish gallop bullshit. It's one of the least persuasive forms of argumentation, and you're particularly obvious in doing it.
Oh. Well, why don't you come to my house and stop me. Your local Action Committee members know where I live.
Because, I will never stop.
ever.
Until I AM DEAD.

No reason to stop supporting what you believe in. I am talking about the gish gallop thing. Your side doesn't think it's awesome either. In fact, pretty much nobody thinks it's awesome. It's just noise.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 06, 2020, 11:14:21 PM
Did you read your own source? Or just get a clue from the URL itself? The claim that Floyd died of a drug overdose is ruled False. Autopsy says homicide, as I said.

Of course I read the source, that is how come I knew that he had a fatal overdose of Fentanyl.

As for homicide, that would be up to the prosecutors to prove.
.

Reading but not understanding. Fatal overdose is irrelevant if it's not the cause of death, as your link says it is not. Cause of death was homicide; the charges brought include murder and manslaughter, which is what the prosecutors must prove. The cause of death will be relevant to prosecution and defense, but "he would have died anyway of X" is not a defense if X is not the cause of death.
   Well, good luck if they prove the cause of death was the very technique the city trained the officers to use against a non compliant subject.  I think that will be an interesting situation.  I also get the feeling you just do not like cops.    I have the feeling you are the sort who is pretty quick to call the police should you be offered up a slap on the face in a dispute on the sidewalks.  I sure hope you get the sort of police you deserve.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on December 06, 2020, 11:16:01 PM
Patriotism =/= partisanship.

We're so far past any delusion that today's leftists have anything in common with their Democrat counterparts even two generations ago.

And that's a good thing. Now only the willfully blind can't see their real agenda.


I only wish I could be alive to HANG YOU ALL BY THE NECK UNTIL DEAD – PARTICULARLY FOR WHAT YOU PEOPLE HAVE DONE TO ME AND MINE.

Unless you're in your 70s, you'll probably be around for the big show.

Most, if not all, the necessary building blocks of a civil war are tumbling down, and many look like they're falling into place, we'll have to see how the final election result shifts the rest of the blocks.

To me, it's a safe bet that a "Trump loss" will allow you to "live in interesting times" in the coming years. The question is just how "interesting" things will get and how quickly.

It's time for anyone awake to plot your personal chess moves.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on December 06, 2020, 11:27:59 PM
Because, I will never stop.
ever.
Until I AM DEAD.

General Patton > Patrick Henry
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 06, 2020, 11:58:34 PM
Patriotism =/= partisanship.

We're so far past any delusion that today's leftists have anything in common with their Democrat counterparts even two generations ago. ne awake to plot your personal chess moves.

Biden IS a Democrat from two generations ago! In fact, I'd say from more than two generations ago. I've watched him run for President since the 80s. I think it's why so many Trump supporters want to play the senile card on him (despite his age being not that far off from Trump himself) is they badly need people not remembering that he's as standard a Democrat as they come from the era when standard Democrat wasn't radical in any way. Mondale, John Glenn, Alan Cranston, Bill Bradley, Gephardt, Gary Hart, they're all similar to Joe Biden.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 07, 2020, 12:51:16 AM
Patriotism =/= partisanship.

We're so far past any delusion that today's leftists have anything in common with their Democrat counterparts even two generations ago. ne awake to plot your personal chess moves.

Biden IS a Democrat from two generations ago! In fact, I'd say from more than two generations ago. I've watched him run for President since the 80s. I think it's why so many Trump supporters want to play the senile card on him (despite his age being not that far off from Trump himself) is they badly need people not remembering that he's as standard a Democrat as they come from the era when standard Democrat wasn't radical in any way. Mondale, John Glenn, Alan Cranston, Bill Bradley, Gephardt, Gary Hart, they're all similar to Joe Biden.
  I thought they played the senile card on him because he slurs his speech, forgets where he is, says some odd stuff, flies of the handle, and breaks his foot playing with his dog naked fresh out of the shower.   
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 07, 2020, 06:46:49 AM
Patriotism =/= partisanship.

We're so far past any delusion that today's leftists have anything in common with their Democrat counterparts even two generations ago. ne awake to plot your personal chess moves.

Biden IS a Democrat from two generations ago! In fact, I'd say from more than two generations ago. I've watched him run for President since the 80s. I think it's why so many Trump supporters want to play the senile card on him (despite his age being not that far off from Trump himself) is they badly need people not remembering that he's as standard a Democrat as they come from the era when standard Democrat wasn't radical in any way. Mondale, John Glenn, Alan Cranston, Bill Bradley, Gephardt, Gary Hart, they're all similar to Joe Biden.
Democrats two generations ago were taking Chinese money and covering up for their crackhead children? Huh. Whodathunkit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 07, 2020, 09:49:34 AM
Is it me, or did this thread get real boring once @SHARK and I stopped posting?

It would be awesome if you stopped the Gish gallop bullshit. It's one of the least persuasive forms of argumentation, and you're particularly obvious in doing it.

Relevant Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal comic, likely inspired by the post-election nonsense.

http://smbc-comics.com/comic/evidence

In other news, Ron Johnson demanded the evidence that there's no evidence!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 07, 2020, 09:51:22 AM
Happy Safe Harbor Eve to President-elect Biden and a grateful nation!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 07, 2020, 10:04:48 AM
Happy Safe Harbor Eve to President-elect Biden and a grateful nation!

What the heck is a safe harbor eve? Is that some Canadian holiday?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 07, 2020, 10:35:09 AM
Happy Safe Harbor Eve to President-elect Biden and a grateful nation!

(https://i.redd.it/ilp268qyc6k01.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 07, 2020, 11:27:30 AM
Happy Safe Harbor Eve to President-elect Biden and a grateful nation!

We're all grateful that the US economy is finally going to keel over as the nation recommits itself to the war machine while mindless drones suffocate themselves with 100 days of face diapers! In the name of DiVeRsItY!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 07, 2020, 12:43:43 PM
suffocate themselves



In other news, Sydney Powell has gotten her shit pushed in by judges in Michigan and Georgia. Legal efforts on Trump's behalf to date have actually yielded a net gain of votes for Biden. I gotta say, I'm enjoying the hell out of this.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 07, 2020, 12:57:50 PM
suffocate themselves



Oh, shit! I guess I never experienced shortness of breath, diziness or blurred vision (all indicators of lack of oxigen) from wearing a mask for prolonged periods of time cuz ONE guy briefly put on multiple masks and posted a video on twitter. #Pscience!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 07, 2020, 01:25:27 PM
Oh, shit! I guess I never experienced shortness of breath, diziness or blurred vision (all indicators of lack of oxigen) from wearing a mask for prolonged periods of time cuz ONE guy briefly put on multiple masks and posted a video on twitter. #Pscience!
If you experienced those symptoms, you were either wearing the mask wrong (not surprising since you seem to be a moron) or you were wearing something inappropriate as a mask (also because you seem to be a moron). More likely though, you're just lying.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 07, 2020, 01:46:52 PM
Happy Safe Harbor Eve to President-elect Biden and a grateful nation!

Translation - fap fap fap
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 07, 2020, 01:49:11 PM
Fap fap fap

The leftest masturbation continues.....
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 07, 2020, 01:51:15 PM
suffocate themselves



Oh, shit! I guess I never experienced shortness of breath, diziness or blurred vision (all indicators of lack of oxigen) from wearing a mask for prolonged periods of time cuz ONE guy briefly put on multiple masks and posted a video on twitter. #Pscience!

My guess is no you haven't
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 07, 2020, 01:52:20 PM
Fap fap fap

The leftest masturbation continues.....

Between your obsession with masturbation and SHARK's ceaseless use of the term, "cock-sucking", I'm beginning to wonder if this is a forum or a bath house...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 07, 2020, 01:55:26 PM
Some of you aren't very bright. The COVID thread is that-a-way.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 07, 2020, 02:27:34 PM
Oh, shit! I guess I never experienced shortness of breath, diziness or blurred vision (all indicators of lack of oxigen) from wearing a mask for prolonged periods of time cuz ONE guy briefly put on multiple masks and posted a video on twitter. #Pscience!
If you experienced those symptoms, you were either wearing the mask wrong (not surprising since you seem to be a moron) or you were wearing something inappropriate as a mask (also because you seem to be a moron). More likely though, you're just lying.

I use the same type of mask the guy is wearing on the vid (which they handed out a bunch of them for free early on where I live) and put it on basically the same way. But you claimed otherwise on the internet, and a single fucking guy (with a head that seems to be slimmer and smaller than mine, which I'm sure you'll say bears ZERO impact on how tight those things end up pressing on my face) did the super scientific test of putting them on for roughly a minute or so ONE time (without a control group or anything, or engaging any type of activity), so it must be true!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 07, 2020, 02:31:51 PM
Some of you aren't very bright. The COVID thread is that-a-way.

Dude, this isn't even about actual discussion. This is about clapback culture, hurling insults and confirmation bias. Expecting peeps to keep it on topic is just too much (plus these topics always get derailed anyways; the other thread also got derailed by election talk).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 07, 2020, 02:35:50 PM
<caps lock on>THOSE ARE EITHER OLD OR DON'T MEAN A LOT WITHOUT ADDITIONAL CONTEXT. <caps lock off> I'm more interested in the test of the voting machines. That can be independently verified.

Eh, the voting machines are just a red herring, signature checking already shows a 11% error rate which is enough to swing the election by itself.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 07, 2020, 02:39:00 PM
suffocate themselves

How long until this guy tweets out video of himself in a hot tub with 10 other people?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 07, 2020, 02:40:04 PM
Sorry to hear about your cousin's father, consolcwby. My condolences.

I only wish I could be alive to HANG YOU ALL BY THE NECK UNTIL DEAD – PARTICULARLY FOR WHAT YOU PEOPLE HAVE DONE TO ME AND MINE.
Ignore or trash the evidence. Or maybe WHINE about the AMOUNT OF PROOF, like Mr. Kim?
You look foolish doing so.

I hope you live a long and healthy life, but I still disagree with you. I have not seen anything that amounts to proof.

One thing that does concern me is shifting goalposts. Back in Reply #837 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1152820/#msg1152820), I tried to summarize the different claims as of a few weeks ago. I think it's important to review, because following up on claims shows about how well-verified the claims are. The earlier claims were:

1) The Antrim County glitch that caused 6000 votes to count towards Biden. I do not believe that this constitutes evidence of fraud. It was caught by cross-checks, and no one official has claimed that it was intentional fraud. That county is Republican dominated, and the local officials are Republican.

2) Crowder's video showing bringing a wagon and luggage into a building in Detroit where ballot counting is happening. There was nothing on video to indicate that either the wagon or the luggage contained ballots, or that either got into the ballot-counting area without being checked. This was later claimed as news media camera equipment, and the claims that it was illicit ballots don't seem followed up on.

3) A quote supposedly from a sworn affidavit of an election monitor in Michigan, posted by jeff37923, posted in Reply #691 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1152313/#msg1152313), claiming major problems in the process. The original posting of this was taken down, and I have seen no more publicity about it from conservative sites.

4) A statistical analysis (https://redstate.com/scotthounsell/2020/11/05/excuse-me-while-i-call-bs-n275572) from RedState author Scott Hounsell. I tried looking into it, but it didn't give any sources for it's numbers and doesn't seem to have any cross-checks by anyone else - and there still doesn't seem to be any backing or explanation now.

5) The claim that there were more votes than registered voters in Wisconsin, advanced by Brad, followed by the claim that it was ludicrous that 90% of registered voters had voted. I don't believe this claim is warranted or constitutes fraud. The initial claim was wrong, and the idea that 90% is ludicrous doesn't add up given that 2016 had 87% nationally.

6) The Benford's Law analysis claim. I don't have a conclusion yet on this. This at least gives it's sources as well as code - which is good. It claims a statistical anomaly, but it doesn't give a likelihood or explain why it chose the three districts that it did. This does not seem to have been followed up on as proof after countering mathematical claims, though I have not had time to dig into it myself.

7) GameDaddy's claim in Reply #789 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1152671/#msg1152671) that the odds of PA, GA, and AZ were 308 to 1 that it was valid. That calculation of odds is based on the assumption that each state's vote is a random throw, and that 3% for Biden, 50% for Biden, and 97% for Biden were all equally likely. I believe this is a false assumption - which Pat also backed up.

8) The countering claims regarding Pennsylvania postal worker Richard Hopkins. He at first swore that he heard his supervisor was going to backdate ballots, then when cross-examined by investigators recanted, then claimed that he was pressured to recant. However, he hasn't re-signed his original testimony, but a weaker version of his original claims that were circumstantial rather than direct admission.

---------------

Those are the earlier claims. The new ones that I have looked into include:

9) Navid Keshavarz-Nia, who didn't directly witness anything, but testified as an expert witness analyzing data. But his sworn testimony cited the example of a non-existent county (Edison County MI). Maybe that was a genuine mistake and all the rest is accurate, but it raises significant doubts.

10) Melissa Carone, who was a contract worker with Dominion who testified to fraudulent ballot worker practice. I watched about a half hour of her testimony before the Michigan committee. Her claims involved a hard-to-believe method that Rep Johnson cross-examined her on - that workers would just reran the same ballot thousands of times in front of witnesses - and did not fit other testimony and evidence.

11) Lawyer Jacki Pick, who testified about the contents of the video of State Farm Arena. She was not herself a witness, but claimed to be representing direct witnesses - but I haven't seen their affidavits. However, she was contradicted by the Republican investigators and election chief about the facts there.

12) Thomas McInerny, who claims to have sources telling him that 5 soldier were killed in an Army Special Forces raid on a CIA-run service farm in Frankfurt.

13) Phil Waldron presenting an anonymous email sent to the Arizona legislature claiming fraud. While it could be true, an anonymous email is so easy to falsify that it cannot be treated as serious evidence.

14) Matt Braynard who posted a video analyzing election security, but he does not claim that Trump won the election. He had promised a white paper, but I have not seen such posted yet.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 07, 2020, 02:43:08 PM
Happy Safe Harbor Eve to President-elect Biden and a grateful nation!

What the heck is a safe harbor eve? Is that some Canadian holiday?

He's referring to tomorrow ( Dec 8 ), which is legally the "safe harbor" within federal law for the states selecting electors. The electors will meet and vote next Monday (Dec 14), but tomorrow is the federal deadline for challenging electors.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/safe-harbor-deadline-heres-why-dec-8-matters-in-the-2020-election
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 07, 2020, 03:12:25 PM
suffocate themselves

How long until this guy tweets out video of himself in a hot tub with 10 other people?

Only after his next video on how to drink soup through your mask.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 07, 2020, 03:21:13 PM
suffocate themselves

How long until this guy tweets out video of himself in a hot tub with 10 other people?

Assuming that this creature actually knows 10 people, that at least one of them owns a hot tub, and that they'll actually have him (it? xer?) over and let it get in, is giving it too much credit. :P

suffocate themselves

How long until this guy tweets out video of himself in a hot tub with 10 other people?

Only after his next video on how to drink soup through your mask.

People that claim that you can't drink soup through your mask are obviously wearing their masks wrong (cuz they're dipshits and morons), or most likely just lying. I know this cuz I claimed this on the internet, in lieu of an actual argument or refutation. So you know this has been 100% factchecked as accurate information.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 07, 2020, 03:38:50 PM
Patriotism =/= partisanship.

We're so far past any delusion that today's leftists have anything in common with their Democrat counterparts even two generations ago. ne awake to plot your personal chess moves.

Biden IS a Democrat from two generations ago! In fact, I'd say from more than two generations ago. I've watched him run for President since the 80s. I think it's why so many Trump supporters want to play the senile card on him (despite his age being not that far off from Trump himself) is they badly need people not remembering that he's as standard a Democrat as they come from the era when standard Democrat wasn't radical in any way. Mondale, John Glenn, Alan Cranston, Bill Bradley, Gephardt, Gary Hart, they're all similar to Joe Biden.
Democrats two generations ago were taking Chinese money and covering up for their crackhead children? Huh. Whodathunkit.

I can't speak to Chinese money but covering up for embarrassing family members is a tried and tested long standing activity for all politicians of any political party for hundreds of years.

Have we really forgotten Billy Beer?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 07, 2020, 03:42:21 PM
Fap fap fap

The leftest masturbation continues.....

Between your obsession with masturbation and SHARK's ceaseless use of the term, "cock-sucking", I'm beginning to wonder if this is a forum or a bath house...

I do sometimes wonder about SHARK's apparent obsession with men who suck penises as a way of expressing his angst.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 07, 2020, 04:02:37 PM
Fap fap fap

The leftest masturbation continues.....

Between your obsession with masturbation and SHARK's ceaseless use of the term, "cock-sucking", I'm beginning to wonder if this is a forum or a bath house...

I do sometimes wonder about SHARK's apparent obsession with men who suck penises as a way of expressing his angst.

The one who's screamin' is usually the one who's on fire, I always say.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 07, 2020, 05:11:32 PM
Fap fap fap

The leftest masturbation continues.....

Between your obsession with masturbation and SHARK's ceaseless use of the term, "cock-sucking", I'm beginning to wonder if this is a forum or a bath house...

For us, it's a forum. For you, rawma, HappyDaze, Mistwell, and jhkim it is a booth at a porn shop where you can jack off to your favorite fantasies.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 07, 2020, 05:38:26 PM
Fap fap fap

The leftest masturbation continues.....

Between your obsession with masturbation and SHARK's ceaseless use of the term, "cock-sucking", I'm beginning to wonder if this is a forum or a bath house...

I do sometimes wonder about SHARK's apparent obsession with men who suck penises as a way of expressing his angst.

I don't think I've ever seen SHARK specify their gender. How do you know every single one of those people identify as men? That's awfully sexist and transphobic of you!  >:(
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 07, 2020, 05:48:25 PM
Greetings!

Dan Bongino discusses the Georgia State Farm Arena video, and shreds the alleged "debunking". Lead Stories, leftist "fact checkers" are morons. Lots of other political discussion as well. Good program!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDiTUlKDzeQ][/video]

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 07, 2020, 05:51:49 PM
Happy Safe Harbor Eve to President-elect Biden and a grateful nation!

What the heck is a safe harbor eve? Is that some Canadian holiday?

He's referring to tomorrow ( Dec 8 ), which is legally the "safe harbor" within federal law for the states selecting electors. The electors will meet and vote next Monday (Dec 14), but tomorrow is the federal deadline for challenging electors.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/safe-harbor-deadline-heres-why-dec-8-matters-in-the-2020-election

Ah, it was a sad little trolling attempt then. Gotcha.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 07, 2020, 05:57:14 PM
Fap fap fap

The leftest masturbation continues.....

Between your obsession with masturbation and SHARK's ceaseless use of the term, "cock-sucking", I'm beginning to wonder if this is a forum or a bath house...

For us, it's a forum. For you, rawma, HappyDaze, Mistwell, and jhkim it is a booth at a porn shop where you can jack off to your favorite fantasies.
Don't be shaming their kinks and fetishes, Jeff. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 07, 2020, 06:12:05 PM
Happy Safe Harbor Eve to President-elect Biden and a grateful nation!

What the heck is a safe harbor eve? Is that some Canadian holiday?

He's referring to tomorrow ( Dec 8 ), which is legally the "safe harbor" within federal law for the states selecting electors. The electors will meet and vote next Monday (Dec 14), but tomorrow is the federal deadline for challenging electors.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/safe-harbor-deadline-heres-why-dec-8-matters-in-the-2020-election

Ah, it was a sad little trolling attempt then. Gotcha.

LOL you think the law is trolling you?

If final briefs are not in to the Supreme Court on ongoing cases by tomorrow morning, don't hold your breath on being able to win any case. Justice Alito already said that's when they should be submitted. No matter how much you pout and hold your breath and scream "But the Constitution!!!!" if you don't follow Court procedure you will be out of luck.

So yeah, it's not trolling no matter how unserious you treat the deadline.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 07, 2020, 06:15:42 PM
Fap fap fap

The leftest masturbation continues.....

Between your obsession with masturbation and SHARK's ceaseless use of the term, "cock-sucking", I'm beginning to wonder if this is a forum or a bath house...

For us, it's a forum. For you, rawma, HappyDaze, Mistwell, and jhkim it is a booth at a porn shop where you can jack off to your favorite fantasies.
Don't be shaming their kinks and fetishes, Jeff. :)

Their kink is not OK. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 07, 2020, 06:32:37 PM
Happy Safe Harbor Eve to President-elect Biden and a grateful nation!

What the heck is a safe harbor eve? Is that some Canadian holiday?

He's referring to tomorrow ( Dec 8 ), which is legally the "safe harbor" within federal law for the states selecting electors. The electors will meet and vote next Monday (Dec 14), but tomorrow is the federal deadline for challenging electors.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/safe-harbor-deadline-heres-why-dec-8-matters-in-the-2020-election

Ah, it was a sad little trolling attempt then. Gotcha.

LOL you think the law is trolling you?

No. I think rawma is having fun trolling people.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 07, 2020, 06:43:34 PM
Greetings!

Crowder discusses more Leftist lies and corruption. So hilarious!

All of the establishment types are such lying, fucking scum.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 07, 2020, 06:49:06 PM
Fap fap fap

The leftest masturbation continues.....

Between your obsession with masturbation and SHARK's ceaseless use of the term, "cock-sucking", I'm beginning to wonder if this is a forum or a bath house...

For us, it's a forum. For you, rawma, HappyDaze, Mistwell, and jhkim it is a booth at a porn shop where you can jack off to your favorite fantasies.

There you go with that masturbation talk again
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 07, 2020, 06:51:01 PM
The reason the Crowder/BingoBongo/Dilley/Pool types are clinging so hard to the fraud BS is that their grifting pool will dry up as soon as Biden is sworn in.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 07, 2020, 06:59:26 PM
The reason the Crowder/BingoBongo/Dilley/Pool types are clinging so hard to the fraud BS is that their grifting pool will dry up as soon as Biden is sworn in.

If you were a real grifter then as soon as Biden was sworn in then you would just pivot into critical race theory.


That is where all the sweet sweet grift money is flowing from.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 07, 2020, 08:03:15 PM
Everyone I don't like is a grifter.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 07, 2020, 10:12:19 PM
Fap fap fap

The leftest masturbation continues.....

Between your obsession with masturbation and SHARK's ceaseless use of the term, "cock-sucking", I'm beginning to wonder if this is a forum or a bath house...

For us, it's a forum. For you, rawma, HappyDaze, Mistwell, and jhkim it is a booth at a porn shop where you can jack off to your favorite fantasies.

There you go with that masturbation talk again

Your kink is not OK.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on December 07, 2020, 10:30:16 PM
Everyone I don't like is a grifter.

Sounds like something a grifter would say.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 07, 2020, 10:42:29 PM
Greetings!

Well, despite all the screeching and crowing about "Safe Harbor" day, Attorney Jenna Ellis has a very different analysis.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 07, 2020, 11:40:24 PM
Greetings!

Well, despite all the screeching and crowing about "Safe Harbor" day, Attorney Jenna Ellis has a very different analysis.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


Hey! Great video - I also heard about that legal theory. Keep it up @SHARK!   :)

=========================
To the posters in this thread:
I have to remind everyone, just in case I have not made myself or my intentions clear - when I seem to become ANGERED, I am not refering to YOU. I am merely posting relevant information for the thread, which certain people DO NOT WANT ME TO DO! It is to be read by those who KNOW what I am talking about. If it sounds like insane rambling/threats, then it is NOT intended for anyone here posting. Let me explain: I know who is lurking here, absolutely no account on this site. The fact I POST these seemingly random and vitriolic rants is only for them and their DA Networks. Let's just say, my time is running short and my patience with them is running thin. Try as they might, I will NOT give in to their FUD. Who are they? I am not willing to discuss that at this time, but allow me to reassure EVERYONE HERE POSTING: I will never give up my fight!

So, to all the so-called leftists here, here is a bone for you: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/on-trumps-pardon-of-flynn-glenn-kirschner-says-we-have-to-be-prepared-to-fight-corrupt-pardons/vi-BB1bmGju
THINK ABOUT THIS CAREFULLY, HOW IT CAN APPLY, AND WHAT IT MEANS.
=========================

To Those In The NOE:
------------------------------------------
Congrats! It looks like you won the election by By Any Means Necessary - AKA: MASSIVE FRAUD!
That'll teach all those who stand in the way of progress! NO MERCY! NO QUARTER! OFF WITH THE TRUMPTARDS HEADS!...
There will be no peace for those who believe in law, order, peace, and God.
Congrats! Evil won the day! Except... well, I won't give away how this all ends, now will I? GOOD NIGHT NEW YORK!  :-*

PROOF OF WHAT I SAY:
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1335757895271469057
https://apelbaum.wordpress.com/2020/12/03/the-georgia-ballot-underground-railroad/
https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/07/elections-2020-arizona-dominion-voting-systems-decertification-trump-biden/
https://www.abc15.com/news/state/arizona-house-of-representatives-to-close-for-week-due-to-covid-19-concerns/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/obama-judge-michigan-labels-sidney-powells-case-voting-irregularities-amalgamation-theories-conjecture-speculation/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/youtube-link-todays-voter-fraud-court-hearing-georgia-set-private-sidney-powell-promoted-going/
https://twitter.com/elenaparent/status/1335766615997231105
https://twitter.com/TomFitton/status/1335610791526100993

JUST IGNORE THIS POAST PLEEZ!
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1336097932634775554
https://twitter.com/tracybeanz/status/1336086050918313988
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 08, 2020, 01:28:25 AM
Greetings!

Ahh, yes. Antifa/BLM thugs gather together in Olympia, Washington, and assume they can stomp on *patriots*

The fucking Communists get their asses beat down. Watching the Communist scum retreat while they Reee and cry is just so delicious. Makes enjoying some coffee even better!

I know some patriots that would have been armed up right, and would have brought down even more righteous wrath down on these traitors. Patriots need to start cleaning the streets right and *proper* Roman Gladius swords and lead pipes could prove useful in such circumstances as well.

Our good Patriots in Olympia are doing an excellent job of resisting these filthy, Communist animals.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/watch-multiple-brawls-break-trump-supporters-antifa-olympia-militant-leftist-puts-desperate-call-backup-twitter/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 08, 2020, 05:52:04 AM
=========================
To the posters in this thread:
I have to remind everyone, just in case I have not made myself or my intentions clear - when I seem to become ANGERED, I am not refering to YOU. I am merely posting relevant information for the thread, which certain people DO NOT WANT ME TO DO! It is to be read by those who KNOW what I am talking about. If it sounds like insane rambling/threats, then it is NOT intended for anyone here posting. Let me explain: I know who is lurking here, absolutely no account on this site. The fact I POST these seemingly random and vitriolic rants is only for them and their DA Networks. Let's just say, my time is running short and my patience with them is running thin. Try as they might, I will NOT give in to their FUD. Who are they? I am not willing to discuss that at this time, but allow me to reassure EVERYONE HERE POSTING: I will never give up my fight!
This is comedy gold. Don't ever break character, you crazy motherfucker!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 08, 2020, 06:41:11 AM
Greetings!

Ahh, yes. Antifa/BLM thugs gather together in Olympia, Washington, and assume they can stomp on *patriots*

The fucking Communists get their asses beat down. Watching the Communist scum retreat while they Reee and cry is just so delicious. Makes enjoying some coffee even better!

I know some patriots that would have been armed up right, and would have brought down even more righteous wrath down on these traitors. Patriots need to start cleaning the streets right and *proper* Roman Gladius swords and lead pipes could prove useful in such circumstances as well.

Our good Patriots in Olympia are doing an excellent job of resisting these filthy, Communist animals.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/watch-multiple-brawls-break-trump-supporters-antifa-olympia-militant-leftist-puts-desperate-call-backup-twitter/
While I sympathize, the areas you're most likely to see Antifa in are usually ones where the left has infested law enforcement, particularly the DA's offices.

As a result, people defending themselves from Antifa scum are likely to be prosecuted under spurious charges. Even if the charges don't stick, the DA will drag out the process to maximize the abuse.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 08, 2020, 09:07:43 AM
The reason the Crowder/BingoBongo/Dilley/Pool types are clinging so hard to the fraud BS is that their grifting pool will dry up as soon as Biden is sworn in.

  You must be a bit short sighted if you think there is any suffering for right leaning media when Biden is sworn in.  Hell, Trump kept CNN afloat for 4 years.  If anyone is going to be sad about Biden being sworn in from a $$ stand point, it will be CNN.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 08, 2020, 09:25:54 AM
Fap fap fap

The leftest masturbation continues.....

Between your obsession with masturbation and SHARK's ceaseless use of the term, "cock-sucking", I'm beginning to wonder if this is a forum or a bath house...

  I guess if they fall in with your obsession with sodomy and you guys will have the holy trinity covered.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 08, 2020, 10:20:03 AM
Fap fap fap

The leftest masturbation continues.....

Between your obsession with masturbation and SHARK's ceaseless use of the term, "cock-sucking", I'm beginning to wonder if this is a forum or a bath house...

  I guess if they fall in with your obsession with sodomy and you guys will have the holy trinity covered.

See, I was citing actual examples. You just started talking about sodomy out of nowhere. Nice projection I guess. I'm really starting to wonder about you guys. I'm not judging, you do you, sport.

In other news, Georgia's SECOND recount has confirmed what we already knew. Biden has won Georgia. Again.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 08, 2020, 10:47:04 AM
Greetings!

Ahh, yes. Antifa/BLM thugs gather together in Olympia, Washington, and assume they can stomp on *patriots*

The fucking Communists get their asses beat down. Watching the Communist scum retreat while they Reee and cry is just so delicious. Makes enjoying some coffee even better!

I know some patriots that would have been armed up right, and would have brought down even more righteous wrath down on these traitors. Patriots need to start cleaning the streets right and *proper* Roman Gladius swords and lead pipes could prove useful in such circumstances as well.

Our good Patriots in Olympia are doing an excellent job of resisting these filthy, Communist animals.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/watch-multiple-brawls-break-trump-supporters-antifa-olympia-militant-leftist-puts-desperate-call-backup-twitter/
While I sympathize, the areas you're most likely to see Antifa in are usually ones where the left has infested law enforcement, particularly the DA's offices.

As a result, people defending themselves from Antifa scum are likely to be prosecuted under spurious charges. Even if the charges don't stick, the DA will drag out the process to maximize the abuse.

Greetings!

Yeah, my friend, I am afraid you are right on that! Leftist infiltration of the DA's in so many of these Liberal cities seem to be pathetic, mass breeding grounds for Antifa.

It has made me laugh on several occasions when the cops start beating the fuck out of these Antifa scum, they have curled up into fetal positions sobbing and begging not to be hurt! I also saw some jello boys crying about calling their mommies! *laughing* Fucking so pathetic! Then it's always ironic to see how "tough" these Antifa rats are when they *outnumber* an elderly woman, or an unarmed man--but Reeee and start sobbing like little bitches when some men that are armed and jacked stand up to them and start beating their asses.

I feel sorry for the good folks that are trapped in the Liberal shit holes where the Liberal DA's and Mayors let the Antifa and BLM animals run with a free reign.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RandyB on December 08, 2020, 10:52:58 AM
Greetings!

Ahh, yes. Antifa/BLM thugs gather together in Olympia, Washington, and assume they can stomp on *patriots*

The fucking Communists get their asses beat down. Watching the Communist scum retreat while they Reee and cry is just so delicious. Makes enjoying some coffee even better!

I know some patriots that would have been armed up right, and would have brought down even more righteous wrath down on these traitors. Patriots need to start cleaning the streets right and *proper* Roman Gladius swords and lead pipes could prove useful in such circumstances as well.

Our good Patriots in Olympia are doing an excellent job of resisting these filthy, Communist animals.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/watch-multiple-brawls-break-trump-supporters-antifa-olympia-militant-leftist-puts-desperate-call-backup-twitter/
While I sympathize, the areas you're most likely to see Antifa in are usually ones where the left has infested law enforcement, particularly the DA's offices.

As a result, people defending themselves from Antifa scum are likely to be prosecuted under spurious charges. Even if the charges don't stick, the DA will drag out the process to maximize the abuse.

Greetings!

Yeah, my friend, I am afraid you are right on that! Leftist infiltration of the DA's in so many of these Liberal cities seem to be pathetic, mass breeding grounds for Antifa.

It has made me laugh on several occasions when the cops start beating the fuck out of these Antifa scum, they have curled up into fetal positions sobbing and begging not to be hurt! I also saw some jello boys crying about calling their mommies! *laughing* Fucking so pathetic! Then it's always ironic to see how "tough" these Antifa rats are when they *outnumber* an elderly woman, or an unarmed man--but Reeee and start sobbing like little bitches when some men that are armed and jacked stand up to them and start beating their asses.

I feel sorry for the good folks that are trapped in the Liberal shit holes where the Liberal DA's and Mayors let the Antifa and BLM animals run with a free reign.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Especially as it is being revealed that election fraud has been going on for decades, and that the majority of legal votes in those cities has likely been *against* the Liberals, who cheated their way into office.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 08, 2020, 01:19:21 PM
Happy Safe Harbor Eve to President-elect Biden and a grateful nation!

What the heck is a safe harbor eve? Is that some Canadian holiday?

The day before Safe Harbor Day, obviously.

Speaking of which... Happy Safe Harbor Day! Another milestone for the country in preserving our democracy.

From a Supreme Court decision: 3 U.S.C. § 5 "creates a "safe harbor" for a State insofar as congressional consideration of its electoral votes is concerned. If the state legislature has provided for final determination of contests or controversies by a law made prior to election day, that determination shall be conclusive if made at least six days prior to said time of meeting of the electors."

Almost all states have met these requirements; more than enough to give President-elect Joseph R. Biden more than 270 electoral votes.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 08, 2020, 01:30:15 PM
I would love to see an explanation as to how you feed equal numbers of votes into a Dominion machine, and it magically spits out a total that favors one side.

The Ware County audit should be setting off all sorts of alarm bells.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 08, 2020, 01:39:19 PM
I sure hope you get the sort of police you deserve.

By virtue of living in progressive communities, with substantial community involvement including myself, I have gotten the sort of police I deserve, thank you. I would like to extend competent, honest, professional policing to all communities.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 08, 2020, 01:54:35 PM
Especially as it is being revealed that election fraud has been going on for decades, and that the majority of legal votes in those cities has likely been *against* the Liberals, who cheated their way into office.

If the fraud has been going on for decades purely on the liberal side, why have conservatives not done anything to stop it? Republicans had full control of the federal government under Trump's first two years -- why didn't they pass greater election safeguards? Indeed, the only federal election reform proposals that I know of in recent years have come from the Democrat side.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/482569-senate-gop-blocks-three-election-security-bills

The Republicans have traditionally resisted these and opted to do nothing, rather than have countering election security bills. Moreover, many states under contention like Georgia have had Republican state administrations -- who were the ones who brought in their current voting machines, for example.


For us, it's a forum. For you, rawma, HappyDaze, Mistwell, and jhkim it is a booth at a porn shop where you can jack off to your favorite fantasies.

This seems completely backwards. The anti-Trump posters come here knowing that we'll face resistance, and expecting to be disagreed with and debated - as happens on a forum. Some pro-Trump posters also at least welcome debate and discussion as well. But there are some people who come here wanting an echo chamber where they can get validation -- and wanting that is what I'd liken to wanting to jerk off.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 08, 2020, 02:03:19 PM


Speaking of which... Happy Safe Harbor Day! Another milestone for the country in preserving our democracy.



Uhhh...You do realize we are not a democracy, right??
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 08, 2020, 02:06:56 PM
Uhhh...You do realize we are not a democracy, right??
A republic is a type of democracy. It's just not a direct democracy, except for ballot initiatives.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 08, 2020, 02:39:17 PM
In other news, Georgia's SECOND recount has confirmed what we already knew. Biden has won Georgia. Again.

Did they do the signature checks, or just recounted the fake ballots again?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 08, 2020, 02:46:42 PM
In other news, Georgia's SECOND recount has confirmed what we already knew. Biden has won Georgia. Again.

Did they do the signature checks, or just recounted the fake ballots again?
After that Ware County audit of the Dominion vote tabulator, I'd wonder if they hand counted them or not.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 08, 2020, 03:29:53 PM
Fap fap fap

The leftest masturbation continues.....

Between your obsession with masturbation and SHARK's ceaseless use of the term, "cock-sucking", I'm beginning to wonder if this is a forum or a bath house...

  I guess if they fall in with your obsession with sodomy and you guys will have the holy trinity covered.

See, I was citing actual examples. You just started talking about sodomy out of nowhere. Nice projection I guess. I'm really starting to wonder about you guys. I'm not judging, you do you, sport.

In other news, Georgia's SECOND recount has confirmed what we already knew. Biden has won Georgia. Again.
  I suppose when you are so ease with referring to someone "having their shit pushed in" you sort of miss your own obsession?  I think the mirror is where you may want to confine your deep dives into psyche for a bit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 08, 2020, 04:02:42 PM
Uhhh...You do realize we are not a democracy, right??
A republic is a type of democracy. It's just not a direct democracy, except for ballot initiatives.

Pretty much. This is why I like to call the "We live in a republic, not a democracy" comments the "A lion is not a cat argument". It's just pointless hair splitting over the actual definition of things that actually do in fact fall within the category that's being discounted, it's just that it's a specific variant within that broader category. It's pedantic nonsense.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 08, 2020, 04:06:10 PM
Uhhh...You do realize we are not a democracy, right??
A republic is a type of democracy. It's just not a direct democracy, except for ballot initiatives.

Pretty much. This is why I like to call the "We live in a republic, not a democracy" comments the "A lion is not a cat argument". It's just pointless hair splitting over the actual definition of things that actually do in fact fall within the category that's being discounted, it's just that it's a specific variant within that broader category. It's pedantic nonsense.
A better description might be 'democratic republic'. However, we are not a -pure- democracy which is what too many dimwitted shitheads seem to want -- until they're in the minority.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 08, 2020, 04:08:13 PM
In other news, Georgia's SECOND recount has confirmed what we already knew. Biden has won Georgia. Again.

Did they do the signature checks, or just recounted the fake ballots again?

They just recounted the 'fake' ones...it wasn't an authentication of the validity of any of the ballots.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 08, 2020, 04:14:35 PM
Fap fap fap

The leftest masturbation continues.....

Between your obsession with masturbation and SHARK's ceaseless use of the term, "cock-sucking", I'm beginning to wonder if this is a forum or a bath house...

For us, it's a forum. For you, rawma, HappyDaze, Mistwell, and jhkim it is a booth at a porn shop where you can jack off to your favorite fantasies.

There you go with that masturbation talk again

Your kink is not OK.

Who are you to judge their kinks? Even if imaging you IS their kink?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 08, 2020, 04:18:31 PM
I sure hope you get the sort of police you deserve.

By virtue of living in progressive communities, with substantial community involvement including myself, I have gotten the sort of police I deserve, thank you. I would like to extend competent, honest, professional policing to all communities.

If you're such a champion for progressive causes, then why are you cheerleading for the election of a corporatist war criminal puppet who was involved in the destruction of Syria, Yemen and Libya, and his soon to be President, incarceration-happy Vice President, who laughed about ruining people's lives and opposed a DNA test that could exonerate an innocent man in death row? It's almost like this is purely about US political tribalism.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 08, 2020, 04:24:21 PM
In other news, Georgia's SECOND recount has confirmed what we already knew. Biden has won Georgia. Again.

Did they do the signature checks, or just recounted the fake ballots again?

they always did signature checks in Georgia (https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-check-donald-trump-georgia-elections-voter-registration-40bb602e6f0facf8eecc331e83ab36e0)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 08, 2020, 04:29:51 PM
Uhhh...You do realize we are not a democracy, right??
A republic is a type of democracy. It's just not a direct democracy, except for ballot initiatives.

Pretty much. This is why I like to call the "We live in a republic, not a democracy" comments the "A lion is not a cat argument". It's just pointless hair splitting over the actual definition of things that actually do in fact fall within the category that's being discounted, it's just that it's a specific variant within that broader category. It's pedantic nonsense.

I was using it in the same sense as the Federalist/Anti-Federalist papers...meaning I was referring to a direct democracy because about 99% per cent of the population doesn't actually seem bright enough to understand the semantics you are referencing.

As for being pedantic...meh, that is about all that rawma deserves...

I mean Happy Daze is displaying a very humorous level of crazy, jhkim tries to hide his bias by using his intelligence and science background to lend a veneer of legitimacy to his disingenuous behavior, and mistwell tries to assert his neocon credentials to lend relevance to his decisions to support slave/concentration camp labor in China for his own financial gain...They are all entertaining at some level.

rawma on the other hand is just a progressive yes-man mouthing the typical platitudes...the least he could do is demonstrate some self-respect by being a better troll.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on December 08, 2020, 04:41:19 PM
I did not know this was an election measure.

"Fact: Biden won the presidency winning 85% of counties with a Whole Foods and 32% of counties with a Cracker Barrel"

https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1336342894630858755
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 08, 2020, 05:11:19 PM
A better description might be 'democratic republic'. However, we are not a -pure- democracy which is what too many dimwitted shitheads seem to want -- until they're in the minority.
That's not even what they want. The people who wail about how the US is not a democracy are typically just decrying something like the Electoral College, and saying it should be replaced with a popular vote. But it doesn't matter how the public chooses them, if governmental power is delegated to selected representatives, then it's still a republic. In order to have a direct democracy, the US would have to get rid of Congress and have all legislation passed via ballot initiatives, and get rid of the presidency and replace it with town hall meetings where all executive action is the result of popular consensus. Something approximating that worked in the small towns of colonial New England, and in Athens and Republican Rome where the franchise was limited to a small class, but it isn't really feasible, with 250 million eligible voters.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 08, 2020, 05:26:54 PM
Supreme Court dismisses Pennsylvania appeal:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/us/supreme-court-republican-challenge-pennsylvania-vote.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201208&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline%C2%AEi_id=56601164&segment_id=46387&user_id=ea1aaef891f6d0d71553b9dfe3b32f82
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 08, 2020, 05:33:34 PM
I would love to see an explanation as to how you feed equal numbers of votes into a Dominion machine, and it magically spits out a total that favors one side.

The Ware County audit should be setting off all sorts of alarm bells.

Do you have a source on this? As far as I can see, the origin of the stories I see is a screen shot of an email saying this:

Quote
Thank you for taking my call yesterday. I am writing to you to confirm our conversation of last week that on the hand recount that the Trump vote count went up to a total of 37 and Biden's count went down 37 or totals being Trump 9902 Biden 4174 and Jorgensen 116. Thank you for your response and your service to our country during these trying times.

The VoterGA activist group has interpreted this as being that the electronic counting machines produced this difference by some sort of software vote-flipping. They claim "the total electronic vote count shorted Donald Trump 37 votes and added those 37 votes to totals for Joe Biden. The 74 affected votes represents .52% of the 14,192 county votes cast, exactly double Biden’s total statewide margin of .26%."

Source: https://voterga.files.wordpress.com/2020/12/press-release-dominion-flips-trump-votes-to-biden-in-ga-county.pdf

But both hand counts and machine-tabulated counts are subject to human error, where out of thousands of ballots, someone could make a human error putting them into the machine or putting them into the wrong pile. It's not uncommon for recounts to have a difference of 0.1%, which are almost always human error. Carlos Nelson, the Ware County Supervisor of Elections whose email was quoted, told First Coast News said that it was a human error in tabulating absentee ballots, which was corrected.

Source: https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/politics/ware-county-officials-dismiss-claims-of-voting-machine-flipping-trump-votes-to-biden/77-28863100-86f7-467e-bb85-2ab7fa2be45f

Meanwhile, this is being reported with headlines like: "Ware County tested Dominion tabulators: Equal number of votes yielded 26% ‘lead’ for Joe Biden"

Source: https://noqreport.com/2020/12/06/ware-county-tested-dominion-tabulators-equal-number-of-votes-yielded-26-lead-for-joe-biden/

Note how the headline changes 0.26% (26 out of 10,000) to 26% (26 out of 100).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 08, 2020, 05:50:28 PM
"In any event, lawyers for the state wrote, the matter is largely moot, as the state’s election results in favor of Joseph R. Biden Jr. have been certified and submitted. The challengers’ remaining argument, they wrote, is that the Supreme Court should simply overturn the state’s election results. That request, they wrote, was breathtaking and unconstitutional."

LOL. All of this whiny pussy bullshit by some Republicans will be ending very soon now.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 08, 2020, 06:04:49 PM
I sure hope you get the sort of police you deserve.

By virtue of living in progressive communities, with substantial community involvement including myself, I have gotten the sort of police I deserve, thank you. I would like to extend competent, honest, professional policing to all communities.
  No, you have not.  But I think you will.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 08, 2020, 06:07:05 PM
jkin is right, the problem is not with the machines.

Keep your eye on the voter fraud ball : absentee ballots need signature comparison confirmation.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 08, 2020, 06:07:47 PM
"In any event, lawyers for the state wrote, the matter is largely moot, as the state’s election results in favor of Joseph R. Biden Jr. have been certified and submitted. The challengers’ remaining argument, they wrote, is that the Supreme Court should simply overturn the state’s election results. That request, they wrote, was breathtaking and unconstitutional."

LOL. All of this whiny pussy bullshit by some Republicans will be ending very soon now.
  Nah.  It did not end for the past 4 years from the old democrats.  Pretty sure it will be more of similar BS from the right the next 4 years.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 08, 2020, 06:12:13 PM
"In any event, lawyers for the state wrote, the matter is largely moot, as the state’s election results in favor of Joseph R. Biden Jr. have been certified and submitted. The challengers’ remaining argument, they wrote, is that the Supreme Court should simply overturn the state’s election results. That request, they wrote, was breathtaking and unconstitutional."

LOL. All of this whiny pussy bullshit by some Republicans will be ending very soon now.

It’s not strange a defendant lawyer would write that

Your AP fact check doesn’t say anything at all - no one is asserting that the state is lacking a signature check procedure.

The very way your responses obfuscate says you either also have a context-recognition problem, or that you inherently disrespect the people you’re responding to, giving such manipulatively dishonest responses.  It’s very akin to a lawyer lawyering on someone without their own representation present, and justifying that because they don’t have their own representation present

This is why the real issue is separating RINOs into a different party; it’s what they do to the base of voters voting republican, in a nutshell
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 08, 2020, 06:13:34 PM
Fap fap fap

The leftest masturbation continues.....

Between your obsession with masturbation and SHARK's ceaseless use of the term, "cock-sucking", I'm beginning to wonder if this is a forum or a bath house...

For us, it's a forum. For you, rawma, HappyDaze, Mistwell, and jhkim it is a booth at a porn shop where you can jack off to your favorite fantasies.

There you go with that masturbation talk again

Your kink is not OK.

Who are you to judge their kinks? Even if imaging you IS their kink?

They are your kinks too. Your kink is not OK.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 08, 2020, 06:15:49 PM
jkin is right, the problem is not with the machines.

Keep your eye on the voter fraud ball : absentee ballots need signature comparison confirmation.

They got signature comparison.  Asked and answered. They always had signature verification.

Also, in case you had not noticed, all the cases are flaming out. In all the states. Even if you somehow discount Georgia (which you cannot), he loses. 

It's done. As of today, realistically, it will be done. The Supreme Court is just not having this nonsense.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 08, 2020, 06:22:41 PM
or that you inherently disrespect the people you’re responding to

It's not inherent. The disrespect was earned. If you continue to behave like gullible asshole nutcases, eventually you lose respect. It's like we're debating with the guy ranting about religion on the street corner who is covered in his own filth. We get it - you lost your fucking minds and are demanding everyone else join you in your insanity. Which gets me my sympathy for your plight, but not my respect. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 08, 2020, 06:26:57 PM
or that you inherently disrespect the people you’re responding to

It's not inherent. The disrespect was earned. If you continue to behave like gullible asshole nutcases, eventually you lose respect. It's like we're debating with the guy ranting about religion on the street corner who is covered in his own filth. We get it - you lost your fucking minds and are demanding everyone else join you in your insanity. Which gets me my sympathy for your plight, but not my respect.

 I have no doubt the the king felt the same way in the 1770's.  I guess he made a slight miscalculation or two as to how easily a bit of nutty ranting was going to blow over.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 08, 2020, 06:32:50 PM
or that you inherently disrespect the people you’re responding to

It's not inherent. The disrespect was earned. If you continue to behave like gullible asshole nutcases, eventually you lose respect. It's like we're debating with the guy ranting about religion on the street corner who is covered in his own filth. We get it - you lost your fucking minds and are demanding everyone else join you in your insanity. Which gets me my sympathy for your plight, but not my respect.



 I have no doubt the the king felt the same way in the 1770's.  I guess he made a slight miscalculation or two as to how easily a bit of nutty ranting was going to blow over.

Just more bullshit internet tough guy bluff.

The Supreme Court, and the lower courts and investigations, will all conclude there is no case to be made here. The electors will certify Biden won. Biden will be sworn in. There will be no civil war. All that will be left is a bunch of idiots bitching whining moaning and complaining like the sore losers they are that the election was stolen like Bigfoot believers.

You want to think this will be like the Revolutionary war? Cool story broheim. When that doesn't happen, then what? How stupid do you think will you look when Biden is sworn in and nothing else happens? Yes, more stupid than you're thinking you will look.

You think there is some special permanent movement going on with Trumpism, but it's not. It's just going into the scrap heap with the Tea Party, and then the Religious Right before them. The overwhelming majority of the 20th and 21st century has just be ordinary Republicanism, with some drift to neo cons. None of which is Trumpism, and none of which will be Trumpism ever again. Your guy flamed out, and went down looking like a whiny little pussy bitch doing it. Voters are not going to want to associate with such a loser any more. Americans don't like losers.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 08, 2020, 06:42:58 PM
or that you inherently disrespect the people you’re responding to

It's not inherent. The disrespect was earned. If you continue to behave like gullible asshole nutcases, eventually you lose respect. It's like we're debating with the guy ranting about religion on the street corner who is covered in his own filth. We get it - you lost your fucking minds and are demanding everyone else join you in your insanity. Which gets me my sympathy for your plight, but not my respect.

Except its not insanity.  You write "1 for 36 in court" in response to accusations of impropriety; implying that 35 courts made a decision whether the accusation was materially possible, or likely. The reality is the courts are declining to hear cases based on procedural issues, or other technical issues completely apart from the issues - materially similarly to a judge refusing to take a 10-year old accusation of theft says nothing as to whether the theft occurred or not. 

(https://i.imgur.com/n1PetmH.jpg)

The real question is whether or not the people would accept that technicalities should overrule their concerns; i.e., whether they should "color revolution" in support of Trump because they think the election is a sham.  The US encourages this in other countries so they can't really oppose it philosophically here.

You desperately don't want that to happen, so you spin all of this in response as smarter people than you saying you're full of shit.  Sit back down, boy - you're stupid.  Accept the process.  There's nothing wrong here, you're just too dumb or deranged to understand. 

But in doing so you're going beyond what your "sources" actually say and load it with meaning not even present.  Depending upon them to not see, which is itself manipulating whatever trust they may have, or even a simple difference in ability.  Because the means justify the end.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 08, 2020, 06:52:29 PM
or that you inherently disrespect the people you’re responding to

It's not inherent. The disrespect was earned. If you continue to behave like gullible asshole nutcases, eventually you lose respect. It's like we're debating with the guy ranting about religion on the street corner who is covered in his own filth. We get it - you lost your fucking minds and are demanding everyone else join you in your insanity. Which gets me my sympathy for your plight, but not my respect.

Except its not insanity.  You write "1 for 36 in court" in response to accusations of impropriety; implying that 35 courts made a decision whether the accusation was materially possible, or likely. The reality is the courts are declining to hear cases based on procedural issues, or other technical issues completely apart from the issues - materially similarly to a judge refusing to take a 10-year old accusation of theft says nothing as to whether the theft occurred or not. 

(https://i.imgur.com/n1PetmH.jpg)

The real question is whether or not the people would accept that technicalities should overrule their concerns; i.e., whether they should "color revolution" in support of Trump because they think the election is a sham.  The US encourages this in other countries so they can't really oppose it philosophically here.

You desperately don't want that to happen, so you spin all of this in response as smarter people than you saying you're full of shit.  Sit back down, boy - you're stupid.  Accept the process.  There's nothing wrong here, you're just too dumb or deranged to understand. 

But in doing so you're going beyond what your "sources" actually say and load it with meaning not even present.  Depending upon them to not see, which is itself manipulating whatever trust they may have, or even a simple difference in ability.  Because the means justify the end.

I keep asking the same question and you keep running from it like a coward.

WHAT. WILL. YOU. DO. WHEN. BIDEN. IS. SWORN. IN. AND. NO. CIVIL. WAR. HAPPENS?

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 08, 2020, 07:08:36 PM

WHAT. WILL. YOU. DO. WHEN. BIDEN. IS. SWORN. IN. AND. NO. CIVIL. WAR. HAPPENS?

Sit back and watch the major cities burn to the ground when the establishment uniparty doesn't give the rioters what they want and no longer have Trump to use as cover....

Oh and I'll probably watch most of the MSM go more bankrupt since they will be losing 90% of their feed...(but that is why the tech companies bought them out.  Taxes are so much easier to avoid if you have a drain on the income sitting around somewhere in the portfolio)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 08, 2020, 07:09:26 PM
I don't have to consider what I would do in that situation until it happens.  That's not running from anything; that's refusing to entertain a tactic of persuasion; it's how to pace and lead someone into acquiescence - if they say they won't accept, you'll call them internet tough guy. 

Here's what I won't do: I won't go chameleon and act neutral when I'm not.  Men inherently despise other men who only take visible stands for something when it looks like they're safe, but who stay quiet when they don't have the advantage.  That's you Mistwell.  Anyone can search your profile for "trump" and see the difference in how you present when MAGA is ascendant vs when its fighting for legitimacy.  There's only a handful of entries outside of this thread.

There is one minor benefit to this rules change. Now people who say things like, "I bet you're a Trump supporter" can also be banned for attempting to bait someone into breaking the rules. And that's not speculation - they mention that.

Quote from: trechriron;1071648

Maybe there's some spit-polish on it that might otherwise be missing from a non-Hollywood game, but it hardly rises to the energy you're wasting on it. Just my two cents...

Mercer gets a lot of attention, so Pundit is bashing him to gain attention for himself. It's not more complicated than that. Pundit is trying to ride Mercer's coat tails, sort of like CNN rides Trump's coat tails. Anything for ratings (though I am not sure it's working for Pundy).

There is of course another option. It could be Pundy is pissed Mercer is stealing his shtick. After all, The RPG Pundit is itself an act.

Quote from: Shasarak;1121839
I dont know if it is because of the Jews but Bob is not wrong that the Media hates Trump.

Seems like a storm in a tea cup to me.

It's not. He's said some very antisemitic things. Things which have nothing to do with Trump or the media. Would you like to see more of them, so you can see this is not a storm in a tea cup sort of thing? I am not exaggerating - there is some really bad stuff in there, and this is not about being a Conservative or a Trump Supporter - stuff which goes back before Trump in fact.

Very different tone from

You think there is some special permanent movement going on with Trumpism, but it's not. It's just going into the scrap heap with the Tea Party, and then the Religious Right before them. The overwhelming majority of the 20th and 21st century has just be ordinary Republicanism, with some drift to neo cons. None of which is Trumpism, and none of which will be Trumpism ever again. Your guy flamed out, and went down looking like a whiny little pussy bitch doing it. Voters are not going to want to associate with such a loser any more. Americans don't like losers.

So what will I do?  Not sure, and I wouldn't post it here if I did.  But I know that whatever I do will be consistent, and dependable, and principled.  Not head-down.  Not safely quiet.  Not RINO.  Not Mistwell.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 08, 2020, 07:23:11 PM
Americans don't like losers.

Then why the fuck did they supposedly elect a senile old man who became Vice President after he failed to garner enough support to beat Hillary or Obama the first time around and an unpopular heartless bitch who dropped out after she got devastated in the primaries?

And if you think nothing will happen IF/when Biden and his soon to be actual President get sworn in you're even more delusional than you come off as being. People have been rioting already and the so-called "Left" hates Biden, cuz delusional as they are they know he's just a corporatist war criminal puppet piece of shit and hate his ass as well. I doubt many of them would be fine with a "woman of colour" who locked up a bunch of people for petty offences then laughed her ass about it. The ones who voted for them did so out of pure moronic tribalism. Any Kamala Harris, erm... I mean "Biden" presidency is going to get fucked over by the so-called Left and the so-called Right once desperate out of work people forced to wear face diapers start revolting.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 08, 2020, 07:37:27 PM
Americans don't like losers.

Then why the fuck did they supposedly elect a senile old man.

If Americans dont like losers then how come old Mccain suddenly gets so much love?

How come we always have to remember the Alamo?

Seems like Americans got a secret love for losers.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 08, 2020, 07:53:50 PM
Jesus, you idiots have been taking your claims from some Qanon rando named Spyder? (https://www.businessinsider.com/sidney-powell-election-lawsuits-cite-anonymous-spider-2020-12)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 08, 2020, 07:55:33 PM
Americans don't like losers.

Then why the fuck did they supposedly elect a senile old man.

If Americans dont like losers then how come old Mccain suddenly gets so much love?

How come we always have to remember the Alamo?

Seems like Americans got a secret love for losers.

Not whiny cry baby losers who flame out and repeatedly publicly embarrass themselves like some pimply faced teenager.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 08, 2020, 08:09:04 PM
I don't have to consider what I would do in that situation until it happens.  That's not running from anything; that's refusing to entertain a tactic of persuasion; it's how to pace and lead someone into acquiescence - if they say they won't accept, you'll call them internet tough guy. 

Here's what I won't do: I won't go chameleon and act neutral when I'm not.  Men inherently despise other men who only take visible stands for something when it looks like they're safe, but who stay quiet when they don't have the advantage.  That's you Mistwell.  Anyone can search your profile for "trump" and see the difference in how you present when MAGA is ascendant vs when its fighting for legitimacy.  There's only a handful of entries outside of this thread.

There is one minor benefit to this rules change. Now people who say things like, "I bet you're a Trump supporter" can also be banned for attempting to bait someone into breaking the rules. And that's not speculation - they mention that.

Quote from: trechriron;1071648

Maybe there's some spit-polish on it that might otherwise be missing from a non-Hollywood game, but it hardly rises to the energy you're wasting on it. Just my two cents...

Mercer gets a lot of attention, so Pundit is bashing him to gain attention for himself. It's not more complicated than that. Pundit is trying to ride Mercer's coat tails, sort of like CNN rides Trump's coat tails. Anything for ratings (though I am not sure it's working for Pundy).

There is of course another option. It could be Pundy is pissed Mercer is stealing his shtick. After all, The RPG Pundit is itself an act.

Quote from: Shasarak;1121839
I dont know if it is because of the Jews but Bob is not wrong that the Media hates Trump.

Seems like a storm in a tea cup to me.

It's not. He's said some very antisemitic things. Things which have nothing to do with Trump or the media. Would you like to see more of them, so you can see this is not a storm in a tea cup sort of thing? I am not exaggerating - there is some really bad stuff in there, and this is not about being a Conservative or a Trump Supporter - stuff which goes back before Trump in fact.

Very different tone from

You think there is some special permanent movement going on with Trumpism, but it's not. It's just going into the scrap heap with the Tea Party, and then the Religious Right before them. The overwhelming majority of the 20th and 21st century has just be ordinary Republicanism, with some drift to neo cons. None of which is Trumpism, and none of which will be Trumpism ever again. Your guy flamed out, and went down looking like a whiny little pussy bitch doing it. Voters are not going to want to associate with such a loser any more. Americans don't like losers.

So what will I do?  Not sure, and I wouldn't post it here if I did.  But I know that whatever I do will be consistent, and dependable, and principled.  Not head-down.  Not safely quiet.  Not RINO.  Not Mistwell.

The answer is, you will do nothing except post more bullshit on the Internet. Just like the douchebag leftists did in 2004 who thought that election was stolen by Bush.

As for my "tone" it's been the same all along and it sure as fuck isn't a "safe" approach I take. Posting that Biden won here is the vast minority view, and every time I do I face a sea of you guys. There is nothing "safe" about my approach to this here.

I've ALWAYS been a neo con. I like the neo cons. I've always supported the neo cons. I know you think they're "Not true Republican" or some bullshit, but they're consistently the Republicans I've known and loved my whole life. Trump isn't. That doesn't make me a RINO - it makes your guy the outlier. You guys are Trump supporters, not Republican supporters. You only care if someone supports Trump - not if they support actual Republican principals and policies. Trumps immigration policies are not Republican policies. His trade war policies are not Republican policies. His globalism policies are not Republican policies. His approach to certain international allies are not Republican policies. NONE of this is Republican policies - it's just Trump policies which had more in common with the pro-union left of the 1970s than they do with Republican policies.

Trump is the RINO. It's not even clear he was voting for Republicans all these years, and he sure as fuck doesn't support most Republican policies. You guys got suckered by a populist first, who chose the Republican party because it was the easiest path for his populism.

Does my position still sound safe to you? Go ahead, run your circle jerk with your buddies here. Do the whole SJW group tactic, add in some subtle threats, go down that Internet tough guy path some more.

At the end of the day, Biden will be President and you guys will just be more sore losers along with those moping leftists from 2004 and the SJW progressives who lost this election as well.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 08, 2020, 08:41:29 PM
We’re all just posting on the Internet Misty.  I’ll give you props for more than that when you post a video of yourself calling shark a dumbass to his face.

No, you’re not exercising any special bravery here.  You’re enjoying the moment low-hierarchy men crave: to verbally ridicule what you oppose after you think it’s lost.  You're not out celebrating with never-trumpers or Dems; you’re choosing to come here instead to a thread you stayed out of until the election results came in, to tap dance.

And that’s fine; I’m not upset we are where we’re at as a country at this moment.  So many people are talking about the clarity of it.  And who knows?  The entire thing might jump the rails of the process, so we still get Trump + clarity (or the 8 state-SCOTUS case you don’t mention could pan out).  But even if all we get is clarity, that’s OK.  The neocon grift over the base, where corporate welfare and globalism get taken care of, while the base gets to see their kids die in sand wars for Boeing’s stock price, is more at-risk than ever. 

Nothing the voters want can happen teaming with neocons.  Separating from your side is more immediately important than even preventing the Democrat wing of the uniparty bird from visible power.  No one’s crying over here.  They’re just updating their world view.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on December 08, 2020, 08:58:36 PM
I spoke with a legal client this afternoon about Alito and he's NOT a constitutional law specialist. He's waiting for professor he trusts to opine on the subject. His guess is the Texas vs. 4 states lawsuit takes precedence as it would encompass the issues of the PA lawsuit (and much more). Also, the law enforcement agencies (FBI, DOJ, etc) have to present their findings as well regarding the Dominion machines and their recent seizures of laptops, etc.

The lawyer made a big point that 2000 was far simpler as it involved one state without the appearance of malfeasance, just confusion and incompetence (aka, neither Bush nor Gore claimed criminal activity in Florida). The current situation involves numerous legal issues, many of them criminal and some of them of national security, so the level of convoluted mess for SCOTUS to deal with is unprecedented. 

He told me to chill because the electors voting mean nothing until the Senate meets in January and then, the Senate can postpone certifications if the Alphabet Agencies and/or SCOTUS have pending actions so NOTHING is truly done until January 20th.

And of course, Trump still has the Nuclear option. The media would paint that as "unprecedented" except for Abe went uber-nuclear and FDR went semi-nuclear when the country was endangered by douche bags.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on December 08, 2020, 09:01:15 PM
WHAT. WILL. YOU. DO. WHEN. BIDEN. IS. SWORN. IN. AND. NO. CIVIL. WAR. HAPPENS?

Civil war is already happening! Did you miss the riots and destruction of statues and civil property? The shredding of the Constitution in the name of the sniffles? The question isn't IF civil war is happens, its IF the Right answers the Left.

You believe the Right will continue to live on their knees.

You may be correct.

As for the WHAT.WILL.YOU.DO, I never have and never will kneel and I'm not alone. I've lived in the "gray areas" of society and I'm comfortable there. What you call "Trumpism" is actually civil nationalism, and that's what has been fired up. The establishment Republicans are quite sure "Trumpers" will get in line and vote as they're told in the future. I expect that is true for those people who identify as Republicans instead of nationalists.

Biden's handlers are globalists and globalism/communism is incompatible with nationalism, and especially incompatible with American tradition. Thus, if Biden becomes "president", the entire culture war will only increase in intensity.

It is questionable IF and WHEN and HOW the Right will (or will not) take action. Historically, divergent and opposing cultures clash violently until one culture is crushed or the nation divides.

It is not sensible to believe the USA is immune to such violence and conflict, especially as we are a nation born of violence and already fought one civil war....and the Right is heavily armed, rural and blue-collar, thus far more capable of initiating and sustaining a conflict than the Left who are heavily dependent on the fragile infrastructures we take for granted in the modern world. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on December 08, 2020, 09:12:42 PM
My understanding was Texas wasn't even alleging fraud.  Just that those states violated the Constitution as well as their State Constitutions.  So very low bar to clear.

Trump also has that executive order from September floating around out there in regards to foreign interference.  Given that Smartmatic/Dominion have been implicated in fraudulent elections in Venezuela and that they are owned by Canada/China he has a pretty good case to enact said executive order.

If the DOJ doesn't do anything about the State Farm Arena video then the DOJ/FBI are truly broken and need to be purged.

How can you guys let Soviet Canuckistan make you guys look like such idiots?  We're a fucking banana republic and we have our elections sorted out.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 08, 2020, 09:17:13 PM
WHAT. WILL. YOU. DO. WHEN. BIDEN. IS. SWORN. IN. AND. NO. CIVIL. WAR. HAPPENS?

Civil war is already happening! Did you miss the riots and destruction of statues and civil property? The shredding of the Constitution in the name of the sniffles? The question isn't IF civil war is happens, its IF the Right answers the Left.

Yep. We've literally got people trying to secceed from the country in some major cities, like Seattle and Portland. Granted they've been sad little affairs, but the governors have done next to nothing about it, and let blocks of their cities go lawless for months at a time.
The riots and secessions are going to increase under a Biden administration when it turns out he's not going to hand out free rainbow lollipops and make the bad conservatives go away.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 08, 2020, 09:19:52 PM
How can you guys let Soviet Canuckistan make you guys look like such idiots?  We're a fucking banana republic and we have our elections sorted out.

If Canada gets out of line for an election or two, that's an entirely different impact on a world integration project than the US working against it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 08, 2020, 09:20:39 PM
Yep. We've literally got people trying to secceed from the country in some major cities, like Seattle and Portland. Granted they've been sad little affairs, but the governors have done next to nothing about it, and let blocks of their cities go lawless for months at a time.
The riots and secessions are going to increase under a Biden administration when it turns out he's not going to hand out free rainbow lollipops and make the bad conservatives go away.

Poor old CHAZ gets no respect.

The Rodney Dangerfield of autonomous zones.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snark Knight on December 08, 2020, 09:36:15 PM
Yep. We've literally got people trying to secceed from the country in some major cities, like Seattle and Portland. Granted they've been sad little affairs, but the governors have done next to nothing about it, and let blocks of their cities go lawless for months at a time.
The riots and secessions are going to increase under a Biden administration when it turns out he's not going to hand out free rainbow lollipops and make the bad conservatives go away.

Poor old CHAZ gets no respect.

The Rodney Dangerfield of autonomous zones.

That they set up their own police force which killed two unarmed black kids within a matter of days at least means there's something to be said for the primordial powers that must've coalesced to create that level of irony. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 08, 2020, 09:39:12 PM
I've ALWAYS been a neo con. I like the neo cons. I've always supported the neo cons. I know you think they're "Not true Republican" or some bullshit, but they're consistently the Republicans I've known and loved my whole life.

Why do you support corporatist war criminals who've been only pretending to be different from the neolib corporatist war criminals from the supposedly "Left-Wing" Democraptic party for decades only to screw over the American public and conning us to into endless wars?

Trump isn't. That doesn't make me a RINO - it makes your guy the outlier. You guys are Trump supporters, not Republican supporters. You only care if someone supports Trump - not if they support actual Republican principals and policies. Trumps immigration policies are not Republican policies. His trade war policies are not Republican policies. His globalism policies are not Republican policies. His approach to certain international allies are not Republican policies. NONE of this is Republican policies - it's just Trump policies which had more in common with the pro-union left of the 1970s than they do with Republican policies.

Which is why he's the only halfway decent Republicant president in my lifetime. Fuck, he was better than Obama, who only bullshitted his way into office with promises of "Hope" and "Change" only to follow up on Bush's policies, ram up on drone strikes, fail to fulfill a single campaign promise, get us into a few more wars of his own, expand the Patriot Act (rather than repeal it, like he promised) and ordered the extrajudicial assassination of US citizens (and also codified that shit as a power of the US President). That almost makes Trump a fucking saint by comparison. Any anyone is better than Bush (both of them).

Trump is the RINO. It's not even clear he was voting for Republicans all these years, and he sure as fuck doesn't support most Republican policies. You guys got suckered by a populist first, who chose the Republican party because it was the easiest path for his populism.

Trump is on record starting he was a Democrat, but would run Republican if he ever ran for President, which he obviously did. Don't remember where that was from, but he said it decades ago. But he didn't win because Republicans were dumb enough to vote a non-Republican in, he won because the Republicant party has been an ineffective garbage party, just like its identical cousin, the Democraptic party (which hasn't done anything for the American public for decades either), so Republicans were fed up with it. Which is why Trump's base is stronger than any Republicant President's in recent history. Neither party works, and the only thing that has kinda sorta worked has been Trump, precisely because he isn't a "real" Republicant.

Does my position still sound safe to you?

Bitch, no one here's gonna dox you and go to your house. This ain't an Antifa forum.

At the end of the day, Biden will be President and you guys will just be more sore losers along with those moping leftists from 2004 and the SJW progressives who lost this election as well.

You must be creaming yourself over the prospect, since Biden's a Neolib, which makes him basically the same thing as a "Neocon".
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 08, 2020, 09:52:39 PM
Has anyone mentioned Texas suing the other four states yet?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on December 08, 2020, 09:59:51 PM
I find Russian cynicism so refreshing. We need commentary like this in Australia.

Quote
"In healthy societies, older leaders age out and make room for younger leaders who take over for them after a lengthy period of study and apprenticeship. In sick societies, older leaders cling to power with no one competent there to replace them and once they die are replaced by traitors and criminals. The USSR and the USA are two such examples."

https://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2020/11/watch-this.html
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 08, 2020, 10:00:47 PM
We’re all just posting on the Internet Misty.  I’ll give you props for more than that when you post a video of yourself calling shark a dumbass to his face.

SHARK has been incredibly frustrating on this topic. But I would never seriously insult him. He's a good guy in general and I've enjoyed his posts since before you had ever heard of him. Pretty sure he knows that, even if you don't.

Quote
No, you’re not exercising any special bravery here.

I didn't say I was but nice strawman. I said my stance has never shifted on this topic and in response to you claiming I somehow only say things which are "safe" I am saying nothing I am saying here is the "safe" thing to say. YOUR position is the safe one in this context. You have far more allies here on this topic than I do. Your comment was just more bullshit chest thumping.

Quote
  You’re enjoying the moment low-hierarchy men crave: to verbally ridicule what you oppose after you think it’s lost.  You're not out celebrating with never-trumpers or Dems; you’re choosing to come here instead to a thread you stayed out of until the election results came in, to tap dance.

No I just always come here in addition to other places and in other places I am engaging in a different way because their user bases are different. For example, I post a lot more on certain sports boards than I do on any RPG boards.

Quote
And that’s fine; I’m not upset we are where we’re at as a country at this moment.  So many people are talking about the clarity of it.  And who knows?  The entire thing might jump the rails of the process, so we still get Trump + clarity (or the 8 state-SCOTUS case you don’t mention could pan out).  But even if all we get is clarity, that’s OK.  The neocon grift over the base, where corporate welfare and globalism get taken care of, while the base gets to see their kids die in sand wars for Boeing’s stock price, is more at-risk than ever. 

Biden is closer to W. Bush than Trump, and an awful lot of the House and state legislators just elected are of the more traditional Republican ilk. We shall see but I think your prediction is wrong.

Quote
Nothing the voters want can happen teaming with neocons.  Separating from your side is more immediately important than even preventing the Democrat wing of the uniparty bird from visible power.  No one’s crying over here.  They’re just updating their world view.

For any legislation to get done, it will need some compromise with both parties. It won't be the Trump supporters they turn to. It will be the Neocons who that have a long history of working with.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 08, 2020, 10:08:32 PM
WHAT. WILL. YOU. DO. WHEN. BIDEN. IS. SWORN. IN. AND. NO. CIVIL. WAR. HAPPENS?

Civil war is already happening! Did you miss the riots and destruction of statues and civil property? The shredding of the Constitution in the name of the sniffles? The question isn't IF civil war is happens, its IF the Right answers the Left.

You believe the Right will continue to live on their knees.

You may be correct.

I am correct.

Quote
The establishment Republicans are quite sure "Trumpers" will get in line and vote as they're told in the future. I expect that is true for those people who identify as Republicans instead of nationalists.

Very few identify as nationalists. They like Trump because he speaks his mind and isn't politically correct, but the nationalist philosophy is not the common denominator you think it is.

Quote
Biden's handlers are globalists and globalism/communism is incompatible with nationalism, and especially incompatible with American tradition. Thus, if Biden becomes "president", the entire culture war will only increase in intensity.

If the leader of the nation stops stoking the culture war fires, it will in fact die down.

Quote
It is not sensible to believe the USA is immune to such violence and conflict, especially as we are a nation born of violence and already fought one civil war....and the Right is heavily armed, rural and blue-collar, thus far more capable of initiating and sustaining a conflict than the Left who are heavily dependent on the fragile infrastructures we take for granted in the modern world.

I've heard this unibomber bullshit all my life. When it comes down to it, almost nobody really wants that world.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 08, 2020, 11:08:34 PM
Yes. No fraud at all in PA! In fact, there is so much no fraud the SCOTUS must NEVER look into it (it'll be like looking into the Sun too long!)
I checked on it myself - absolutely logical reasoning on this: https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1336320768888635396
What a wonderful FUCKING statement! Gives me real pause to think!

Meanwhile, in GA, Herr Kemp is putting the Verbotten on ze Legislature: https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1336098679355289600
Ein shwein! How dare those ignorant fools even CONTEMPLATE meeting mittout permission! All officials are now unofficial and shall be hereby replaced with Llamas!
Makes me feel better knowing Herr Kemp is in charge and preventing LAW! Don't those people understand? The VOTING IS OVER!
Herr Hister had the Japanese, Herr Kemp has this: https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1336175895837478912
Good to know the Chinese - humanitarians ALL OF THEM - are pitching in to help mit our elektion!
All Hail Herr Kemp!

However, in AZ, those bastions of the faith have REVOLTED: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/rep-daniel-mccarthy-announces-arizona-legislators-invoked-article-2-section-1-meaning-arizona-officially-contested-election/
I say, send the Kemp in with the Chinese Military to  STOP this INVASION of our PRIVACY!
Then this happened: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/arizona-supreme-court-agrees-hear-election-challenge-investigation-100-ballot-sample-finds-3-ballots-deemed-fraudulent-favor-biden/
Reeeeeeeeeeee!

Texas is suing?!  https://twitter.com/kayleighmcenany/status/1336310213553647616
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/07/kobach-texas-case-challenges-election-directly-at-supreme-court/
Reeeeeeeee- *cough cough cough*
WHY TEXAS, WHY?! https://twitter.com/ProfMJCleveland/status/1336379156607750146/photo/1

Well, my BFF Eric will put a stop to this shi- https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/chinese-spy-raised-money-democrat-rep-eric-swalwell-planted-intern-congressional-office/
*crying*
NOOOOOOOO! https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/08/report-professor-di-dongsheng-china-long-old-friends-top-americas-core-inner-circle/

Its all moving to the Supreme Court, the MSM will do the exact opposite of what they did with Russian Collusion, Impeachment, with those cases they said they have it all, the walls are closing in on Trump, with the cases headed to SCOTUS they will say there is nothing there, remember its always the opposite of what is really going on.   

Look how its all starting to come together, Trump has the constitution on his side, these governors tried to create laws because of pandemic. These laws do not override the constitution, Trump is now calling them on it.  The MSM does not call the election, they tried to make the public believe this, the only strategy they had was cheat, have the MSM call the election in favor of Biden, have the SM put lables on everything that says their is no such thing as election fraud, and this was all pushed to have Trump concede, this is the only way Biden could win, the [DS] system is about to come down around them . Every path from that point forward favors Trump!

Also, my favorite General is FREED AT LAST!
https://twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1336382488172761098

Sorry. I can't keep up this pretense anymore! I can't be a whiny TDS BITCH like you peeps anymore! The emotional toll is... just... too... exhaust- *falls over*

EDIT: Here you go @SHARK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1l-nR1Apj4 <===TAKE A LOOKSEE!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 09, 2020, 01:29:18 AM

EDIT: Here you go @SHARK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1l-nR1Apj4 <===TAKE A LOOKSEE!

Greetings!

OOH RAH!!! Fucking *outstanding*, Consolcwby! I love that video! Goddamn right!



So much awesome in the video! The scenes of the traitor scum burning our flag brought some interesting memories to my mind. When I was in college, a group of several hundred students had gathered on the greenway to hold a protest event and demonstration. They were a conglomerate of Marxists, Feminists, Liberals and Muslims, all chanting and screaming "Death to Jews! Death To America!" and assorted Marxist and anti-American bullshit from a bullhorn. Some guy decided to throw this huge American flag onto the ground, and proceeded to stomp on it. Some chick was getting ready to hand this guy a lighter to set our flag on fire and burn it.

Wrong thing to do, with me around. Something clicked inside me, and I charged swiftly through the gathered crowd, up to their little stage, and grabbed the American flag out of this fucker's hands. I had my fist raised, and he exclaimed to me, demanding that I give the American flag back to him. I told him straight to his face that I would kill him right there before God and everyone if he desecrated the American flag. Several other students sought to take the flag from my grip, and I snarled at them, holding the flag tightly, "Who wants to die first?"

I gave the American flag back to some inoffensive chick that promised they would not desecrate the flag. I told them if they tried to stomp the American flag, or burn it, I would kill them, no matter how many of them were there. The police would not arrive in time to save them. I would make them pay dearly for any such desecration. Soon after this, the police did arrive on scene, as word spread across the campus like wildfire. I was questioned, and the event proceeded peacefully under the watchful eyes of the Police. The policeman congratulated me, and thanked me for my courage, patriotism, and loyalty. Within moments of the police questioning me--and releasing me without incident--the campus news people were on hand with reporters, interviewing me.

I watched the crowd, satisfied that the police would supervise the event properly, before proceeding onwards to attend my own classes. Lunch was over. There would be no desecration of the American flag on *my watch*. As I moved on, many other people came up to me from nowhere, and thanking me for standing up against them--the sceaming crowd, full of hate towards America and Jews. Death to Isreal, Death to America, and all that bullshit. Even days later, people in halls and classes would exclaim, "Are you the man that stood against the Anti-America protesters?"

Yeah. I'm an old-school Patriot. Push my buttons, and I will make these fuckers pay. Not happening with me. They can get away with it beyond my reach, beyond my sight, but try that bullshit in front of me, where I can do something about it? Yeah, buddy. I don't give a fuck if some court somewhere said you can burn the American flag. It won't save you from getting your head kicked in by me, and no, I make no apologies for it. Like I told the chick begging me not to kill the guy, you can scream and say whatever you want, I have no problem. Stomp on my flag, burn my flag, fuck no. Death and violence is coming quickly, I promise you. Everyone around me seemed to take me quite seriously, and they proceeded to behave themselves.

I told the police officers, you can arrest me. Better throw me in a deep jail cell, but I will not stop. I won't allow my flag, the American flag, to be stomped on or burned in my sight. My father fought and bled for that flag. Our forefathers died for that flag. *I* served in the Marines, to defend our nation, and in service to that flag. Only traitors and enemies desecrate our glorious American flag! The police officers agreed with me, and told me no worries, Marine!

So, yeah. The video is awesome. More Americans need to reach down and grab a hold. Resist. Stand up, get in these fuckers faces. Make them sob and shriek and cry. Fuck 'em. Bring the wrath and fire down. Get angry, get mean. Make them piss themselves from fear. Make them quiver their lips and gulp in apprehension from the pain to come. Put the fear of God in these traitor scum and we can begin to take back our country.

Thank you, Consolcwby! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Kyle Aaron on December 09, 2020, 06:53:20 AM
I charged swiftly through the gathered crowd, up to their little stage, and grabbed the American flag out of this fucker's hands. I had my fist raised, and he exclaimed to me, demanding that I give the American flag back to him. I told him straight to his face that I would kill him right there before God and everyone if he desecrated the American flag. Several other students sought to take the flag from my grip, and I snarled at them, holding the flag tightly, "Who wants to die first?"
(https://media.giphy.com/media/1009wQ2WcsEmBO/source.gif)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 09, 2020, 07:28:50 AM
I charged swiftly through the gathered crowd, up to their little stage, and grabbed the American flag out of this fucker's hands. I had my fist raised, and he exclaimed to me, demanding that I give the American flag back to him. I told him straight to his face that I would kill him right there before God and everyone if he desecrated the American flag. Several other students sought to take the flag from my grip, and I snarled at them, holding the flag tightly, "Who wants to die first?"
(https://media.giphy.com/media/1009wQ2WcsEmBO/source.gif)

I will say, it's been fun trying to figure out if SHARK is a troll or counter-troll or the real deal. This one was pretty juicy. :D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 09, 2020, 08:03:04 AM
(Mostly) Democrats just voted for a $740 BILLION “stimulus” that was entirely for defense military spending and nothing's going to the public.



It’s a good thing that we have a strong "Left-Wing" party looking out for the common folk and that the American public (supposedly) elected Biden to liberate us from the Cheeto Dictator, though, cuz that cheddar colored bastard was against it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 09, 2020, 08:23:35 AM
Never seen leftists so damn eager to charge back into the furnace that is the Middle East. I wonder where they dumped Cindy Sheehan after they'd shot their wad with her. Hope they at least left some money on the dresser.


Do you have a source on this? As far as I can see, the origin of the stories I see is a screen shot of an email saying this:


https://gellerreport.com/2020/12/georgia-dominion-machine-gives.html/

I agree about the 26% vs 0.26% argument, they need to iron that out. It may be an issue of how the numbers are laid out. If every vote cast gives Trump 1 vote, but Biden gets 1.26 votes... then yeah, it's accurate enough.

However, that's almost pointless. The presence of any kind of 'weighting' algorithm is a BAD THING. It should not have been present in tabulating machines for an election. The excuse they used ('oh, it's for calculating votes by land ownership')... what? Where is THAT a thing?

Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Oh, and I hear Louisiana just joined the Texas lawsuit. Fun times.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 09, 2020, 09:51:16 AM
I charged swiftly through the gathered crowd, up to their little stage, and grabbed the American flag out of this fucker's hands. I had my fist raised, and he exclaimed to me, demanding that I give the American flag back to him. I told him straight to his face that I would kill him right there before God and everyone if he desecrated the American flag. Several other students sought to take the flag from my grip, and I snarled at them, holding the flag tightly, "Who wants to die first?"
(https://media.giphy.com/media/1009wQ2WcsEmBO/source.gif)

I will say, it's been fun trying to figure out if SHARK is a troll or counter-troll or the real deal. This one was pretty juicy. :D
His political bullshit is pure troll and 1000% internet tough guy nonsense, but his gaming posts are usually fairly good.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 09, 2020, 10:22:46 AM
I charged swiftly through the gathered crowd, up to their little stage, and grabbed the American flag out of this fucker's hands. I had my fist raised, and he exclaimed to me, demanding that I give the American flag back to him. I told him straight to his face that I would kill him right there before God and everyone if he desecrated the American flag. Several other students sought to take the flag from my grip, and I snarled at them, holding the flag tightly, "Who wants to die first?"
(https://media.giphy.com/media/1009wQ2WcsEmBO/source.gif)

I will say, it's been fun trying to figure out if SHARK is a troll or counter-troll or the real deal. This one was pretty juicy. :D
His political bullshit is pure troll and 1000% internet tough guy nonsense, but his gaming posts are usually fairly good.

  I am not sure how much of it is troll and think it is likely blowing out steam.  Like doing burpees at a high rate for 5 mins straight, or interval rounds on a bag, a way to get the poison out that doesnt hurt anyone and makes the person purging it feel better.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 09, 2020, 11:56:31 AM
Do you have a source on this? As far as I can see, the origin of the stories I see is a screen shot of an email saying this:

https://gellerreport.com/2020/12/georgia-dominion-machine-gives.html/

I agree about the 26% vs 0.26% argument, they need to iron that out. It may be an issue of how the numbers are laid out. If every vote cast gives Trump 1 vote, but Biden gets 1.26 votes... then yeah, it's accurate enough.

However, that's almost pointless. The presence of any kind of 'weighting' algorithm is a BAD THING. It should not have been present in tabulating machines for an election. The excuse they used ('oh, it's for calculating votes by land ownership')... what? Where is THAT a thing?

But there is no evidence of any weighting algorithm. Look at your headline -- "Using sequestered Dominion Equipment, GA. County Ran EQUAL Number of Trump and Biden Votes But Tabulator Reported 26% Lead For Biden". 

But the supposed source for that headline is the same VoterGA email screenshot, which says "Thank you for taking my call yesterday. I am writing to you to confirm our conversation of last week that on the hand recount that the Trump vote count went up to a total of 37 and Biden's count went down 37 or totals being Trump 9902 Biden 4174 and Jorgensen 116. Thank you for your response and your service to our country during these trying times."

No part of that headline fits their own cited source. (1) the equipment was not sequestered; (2) they did not run equal numbers of Trump and Biden votes; (3) it did not result in a 26% lead for Biden.

There was a hand recount that got a different total from the machine-fed count -- but there is no indication that it was from a software algorithm as opposed to human error. Incidentally, you say there is a quote "oh, it's for calculating votes by land ownership" - but I can't find anything like that even in your article.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 09, 2020, 12:05:19 PM
Do you have a source on this? As far as I can see, the origin of the stories I see is a screen shot of an email saying this:

https://gellerreport.com/2020/12/georgia-dominion-machine-gives.html/

I agree about the 26% vs 0.26% argument, they need to iron that out. It may be an issue of how the numbers are laid out. If every vote cast gives Trump 1 vote, but Biden gets 1.26 votes... then yeah, it's accurate enough.

However, that's almost pointless. The presence of any kind of 'weighting' algorithm is a BAD THING. It should not have been present in tabulating machines for an election. The excuse they used ('oh, it's for calculating votes by land ownership')... what? Where is THAT a thing?

But there is no evidence of any weighting algorithm. Look at your headline -- "Using sequestered Dominion Equipment, GA. County Ran EQUAL Number of Trump and Biden Votes But Tabulator Reported 26% Lead For Biden". 

But the supposed source for that headline is the same VoterGA email screenshot, which says "Thank you for taking my call yesterday. I am writing to you to confirm our conversation of last week that on the hand recount that the Trump vote count went up to a total of 37 and Biden's count went down 37 or totals being Trump 9902 Biden 4174 and Jorgensen 116. Thank you for your response and your service to our country during these trying times."

No part of that headline fits their own cited source. (1) the equipment was not sequestered; (2) they did not run equal numbers of Trump and Biden votes; (3) it did not result in a 26% lead for Biden.

There was a hand recount that got a different total from the machine-fed count -- but there is no indication that it was from a software algorithm as opposed to human error. Incidentally, you say there is a quote "oh, it's for calculating votes by land ownership" - but I can't find anything like that even in your article.
Yeah, the land ownership thing is supposedly from a Dominion rep. Digging to see where I found it.

Trying to find a clear answer is getting harder, even if you don't use a search engine that'll weigh your results. It'll be interesting to see who's right. If the lefties are correct, how the hell did the audit team manage to get a different result of 37 switched ballots? And if the audit is correct, it means the Dominion machines are not reliable AT ALL.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 09, 2020, 12:13:22 PM
And before you start dancing around cheering how 'the machines are correct'...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/georgia-county-cant-certify-election-results-recount-cant-duplicate-results-voting-machines/

They had to hand-recount theirs. Makes you wonder.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 09, 2020, 01:20:41 PM
And before you start dancing around cheering how 'the machines are correct'...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/georgia-county-cant-certify-election-results-recount-cant-duplicate-results-voting-machines/

They had to hand-recount theirs. Makes you wonder.

Greetings!

I am quite suspicious of the Dominion machines. Smartmatic, Dominion, and so on. Fuck all that BS. They need to hand count every ballot, verify identity and envelopes and signatures.

I am so sick of all of the margins and exceptions and excuses that these voting officials have.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 09, 2020, 01:33:32 PM
And before you start dancing around cheering how 'the machines are correct'...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/georgia-county-cant-certify-election-results-recount-cant-duplicate-results-voting-machines/

They had to hand-recount theirs. Makes you wonder.

Greetings!

I am quite suspicious of the Dominion machines. Smartmatic, Dominion, and so on. Fuck all that BS. They need to hand count every ballot, verify identity and envelopes and signatures.

I am so sick of all of the margins and exceptions and excuses that these voting officials have.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

They were probably programmed by those Marxists, Feminists, Liberals and Muslims from your college.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 09, 2020, 01:51:43 PM
Remember, hacking of voter machines was considered a serious possibility by "experts" when Trump won, but now, it's a conspiracy theory when Biden looks to be the "winner".

https://twitter.com/mynbc15/status/801610035738673152
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 09, 2020, 01:53:57 PM
Yeah, the land ownership thing is supposedly from a Dominion rep. Digging to see where I found it.

Trying to find a clear answer is getting harder, even if you don't use a search engine that'll weigh your results. It'll be interesting to see who's right. If the lefties are correct, how the hell did the audit team manage to get a different result of 37 switched ballots? And if the audit is correct, it means the Dominion machines are not reliable AT ALL.

It's not uncommon for there to be human error on the orders of 0.1% in some hand counts, and there can also be human error in machine-fed counts. One of the counters could screw up and put a ballot into the wrong pile. Even with machine-fed counts, someone could screw up in feeding the right ballots into the machine.

This is exactly why we have recounts -- because we expect there to be some human error in the counts. And we can look and see that the recounts in any state never come up with the exact same number - because there is some margin of human error, usually between 0.01% and 0.1%. In Georgia, combining from all 159 counties, the 2020 recounts changed by around a thousand votes out of over 5 million cast, so around 0.03% change overall. Given 159 counties, there's bound to be some with more significant error in their recount, and some with less.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 09, 2020, 02:48:07 PM
  The mere existence of Eric Coomer working for Dominion looks very bad.  I do not understand a voting machine business having such a partisan and outspoken person functioning as an executive.  Seems like they were asking for trouble.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 09, 2020, 02:55:01 PM
And now Youtube is straight up ejecting anyone from their hugbox who mentions election fraud here in the U.S.

You know, I hate the idea of messing with Section 230. I think Trump made a huge blunder when he threatened to start vetoing over it.

But holy shit, you cannot tell me Youtube is merely a 'provider' when they (and their parent company Google) have been playing these games for so long.

What a pack of thuggish cretins.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 09, 2020, 02:55:35 PM
Remember, hacking of voter machines was considered a serious possibility by "experts" when Trump won, but now, it's a conspiracy theory when Biden looks to be the "winner".

https://twitter.com/mynbc15/status/801610035738673152

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! You know, I have read numerous articles, reports and testimonies--by both Republicans but also especially Democrats--going back several years that brought up deep concerns over voting by mail in ballots, and also using Dominion and Smartmatic voting machines. Lots of suspicions and problems--but now, somehow, as long as Trump was defeated, there's no worries? There's nothing to see here?

The self-interest, the swarmy duplicity of the Democrats is galling.

Now though, anyone that voices dissent, that questions these procedures and machines is somehow a fucking conspiracy theorist and a nutter? I don't think so. I think there are valid concerns, and full and thorough investigations need to be carried out--and not just gargling, smug, rubber-stamp assertions and condescending reassurances.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 09, 2020, 03:07:43 PM
Damn you guys are gona REEEEE so hard on January 20th. I'm ordering popcorn in bulk.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 09, 2020, 03:18:13 PM
Remember, hacking of voter machines was considered a serious possibility by "experts" when Trump won, but now, it's a conspiracy theory when Biden looks to be the "winner".

https://twitter.com/mynbc15/status/801610035738673152

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! You know, I have read numerous articles, reports and testimonies--by both Republicans but also especially Democrats--going back several years that brought up deep concerns over voting by mail in ballots, and also using Dominion and Smartmatic voting machines. Lots of suspicions and problems--but now, somehow, as long as Trump was defeated, there's no worries? There's nothing to see here?

The self-interest, the swarmy duplicity of the Democrats is galling.

Now though, anyone that voices dissent, that questions these procedures and machines is somehow a fucking conspiracy theorist and a nutter? I don't think so. I think there are valid concerns, and full and thorough investigations need to be carried out--and not just gargling, smug, rubber-stamp assertions and condescending reassurances.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I'd like it if you don't reply to any of my posts, SHARK. I'll do likewise going forward.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 09, 2020, 03:25:22 PM
Damn you guys are gona REEEEE so hard on January 20th. I'm ordering popcorn in bulk.

Only if you pull my hair. ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 09, 2020, 03:32:11 PM
or that you inherently disrespect the people you’re responding to

It's not inherent. The disrespect was earned. If you continue to behave like gullible asshole nutcases, eventually you lose respect. It's like we're debating with the guy ranting about religion on the street corner who is covered in his own filth. We get it - you lost your fucking minds and are demanding everyone else join you in your insanity. Which gets me my sympathy for your plight, but not my respect.



 I have no doubt the the king felt the same way in the 1770's.  I guess he made a slight miscalculation or two as to how easily a bit of nutty ranting was going to blow over.

Just more bullshit internet tough guy bluff.

The Supreme Court, and the lower courts and investigations, will all conclude there is no case to be made here. The electors will certify Biden won. Biden will be sworn in. There will be no civil war. All that will be left is a bunch of idiots bitching whining moaning and complaining like the sore losers they are that the election was stolen like Bigfoot believers.

You want to think this will be like the Revolutionary war? Cool story broheim. When that doesn't happen, then what? How stupid do you think will you look when Biden is sworn in and nothing else happens? Yes, more stupid than you're thinking you will look.

You think there is some special permanent movement going on with Trumpism, but it's not. It's just going into the scrap heap with the Tea Party, and then the Religious Right before them. The overwhelming majority of the 20th and 21st century has just be ordinary Republicanism, with some drift to neo cons. None of which is Trumpism, and none of which will be Trumpism ever again. Your guy flamed out, and went down looking like a whiny little pussy bitch doing it. Voters are not going to want to associate with such a loser any more. Americans don't like losers.
  I am not going to be anywhere near a civil war, nor do I predict same.  You assume lots of things.  I would also say, you are far removed from the real life grumbling going out here in flyover country.  I have no idea when we begin to see harsh civil unrest.  We have already seen impeachment, investigations of in coming administrations, cities burning.... Do you need to see massive groups of people shooting at one another to be clued in things may not run in the future as they always have?   I do not know where in the 1770's we are right now, maybe 1770?   Trump is not my guy.  I was shocked that a politician decided to take US interests to heart first for a change, and be vocal about it.   If you think that is going away, you may be the stupid one.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 09, 2020, 03:44:04 PM
Damn you guys are gona REEEEE so hard on January 20th. I'm ordering popcorn in bulk.

Believe him, Tubesock is an expert at Reeeing.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 09, 2020, 03:48:37 PM
Damn you guys are gona REEEEE so hard on January 20th. I'm ordering popcorn in bulk.
  You mean the way you did in 2017?  Doubtful.  I do not expect some legal blockage of a national election, even if it could be proven beyond all doubt democrats rigged it.  It would literally tear the country in half, with blood and fire.  I do find it odd some states stand at hard odds with others legally, seems I have heard that tune before.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 09, 2020, 03:57:14 PM
Damn you guys are gona REEEEE so hard on January 20th. I'm ordering popcorn in bulk.

Believe him, Tubesock is an expert at Reeeing.

Tubesock Army signed up to this forum just to REEEE. I mean...it's freaking name is Tubesock Army (Tubesock? As in sockpuppet? How many times were you banned, bruh?). That is Tubesock Army's commitment to REEEEing.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 09, 2020, 04:02:40 PM
Damn you guys are gona REEEEE so hard on January 20th. I'm ordering popcorn in bulk.

Believe him, Tubesock is an expert at Reeeing.

Tubesock Army signed up to this forum just to REEEE. I mean...it's freaking name is Tubesock Army (Tubesock? As in sockpuppet? How many times were you banned, bruh?). That is Tubesock Army's commitment to REEEEing.
  its nice to see biscuit back. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 09, 2020, 04:05:47 PM
Presented without comment

https://twitter.com/henryrodgersdc/status/1336713445190873089?s=21

Edit - ok, one comment: a dark humor response as seen in the Internet

Quote
To heal as a nation we must decree that each year the various Republican states offer up 1 young man & woman to fight to the death in a pageant of, honor, courage, & sacrifice.  The lone survivor would serve as a reminder of the Democrats’ generosity & forgiveness.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 09, 2020, 04:15:46 PM
Tubesock Army signed up to this forum just to REEEE. I mean...it's freaking name is Tubesock Army (Tubesock? As in sockpuppet? How many times were you banned, bruh?). That is Tubesock Army's commitment to REEEEing.

(https://img.fae.ro/8325f1.jpeg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 09, 2020, 04:21:55 PM
Presented without comment

Why do these people always look so retarded?

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 09, 2020, 04:24:04 PM
Tubesock Army signed up to this forum just to REEEE. I mean...it's freaking name is Tubesock Army (Tubesock? As in sockpuppet? How many times were you banned, bruh?). That is Tubesock Army's commitment to REEEEing.

(https://img.fae.ro/8325f1.jpeg)
Well, all you've done is REEEE at the dissenters in this area, other than one snotty comment in the RPG forum sniping at someone.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 09, 2020, 04:26:16 PM
Presented without comment

https://twitter.com/henryrodgersdc/status/1336713445190873089?s=21

Edit - ok, one comment: a dark humor response as seen in the Internet

Quote
To heal as a nation we must decree that each year the various Republican states offer up 1 young man & woman to fight to the death in a pageant of, honor, courage, & sacrifice.  The lone survivor would serve as a reminder of the Democrats’ generosity & forgiveness.

Greetings!

Damn, EOTB. A US Congresswoman threatening Trump supporters with violence? Jaw dropping. It's so incredible what Leftist Democrats can get away with in this country, with our media. *SHARK shakes head in dismay and disgust* I know, I know, nothing that is crazy, low, and treacherous from the Democrats should really surprise me anymore, but somehow, these kinds of episodes of hatred from them still does. *Sigh* And they claim to be "Americans". They talk out of the other side of their mouth about "Healing and Unity". And these frothing at the mouth demagogues full of hate towards Americans wonder with amazement why many Americans are talking of the coming civil war?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 09, 2020, 04:46:03 PM
Hi shark,

Michigan state assembly rather than US congress, but yes.

This was the same person who used her one question to ask the one of the people testifying about fraud before the Michigan assembly, to please spell out their last name and also their maiden name.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 09, 2020, 04:48:04 PM
Damn you guys are gona REEEEE so hard on January 20th. I'm ordering popcorn in bulk.
Oh, this is a slow-sipping drink that will provide me months of joy. I didn't want Biden to win, but I have accepted it and I get great pleasure from the REEEEEs of those that cannot (including whiny bitches like SHARK that have shown they are exactly what they rail against).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 09, 2020, 04:57:34 PM
Hi shark,

Michigan state assembly rather than US congress, but yes.

This was the same person who used her one question to ask the one of the people testifying about fraud before the Michigan assembly, to please spell out their last name and also their maiden name.

Greetings!

Michigan State Assembly? Good good. Thank you, EOTB. Yeah, her presence at the hearing thing, Geesus. Why are so many of these Democrat politicians so pathetic and disgusting? They remind me of the filthy, crazy bag women standing at the bus stop and ranting. It's like they are all some kind of crazy eyed activist types from the "community center" or people hanging out in the parking lot behind a dirty, run down convenience store. How the hell do these people get elected? I wouldn't put them in charge of cleaning the outhouse, and yet, somehow they get elected to political office!? Just listening to her talk, she sounds like she is so shrill, demanding, and disrespectful. Zero Dignitas.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 09, 2020, 05:04:59 PM
Damn you guys are gona REEEEE so hard on January 20th. I'm ordering popcorn in bulk.
Oh, this is a slow-sipping drink that will provide me months of joy. I didn't want Biden to win, but I have accepted it and I get great pleasure from the REEEEEs of those that cannot (including whiny bitches like SHARK that have shown they are exactly what they rail against).

Greetings!

*Laughing*

No, I'm not a "whiny bitch" about anything. I am certainly not what *I* rail against. I see our country more and more influenced by Marxist ideology, and by Marxist-Globalists and Communists. The fact that you disparage and REEE against me about this merely reveals how blind and ignorant you truly are, HappyDaze.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 09, 2020, 05:08:06 PM
Damn you guys are gona REEEEE so hard on January 20th. I'm ordering popcorn in bulk.
Oh, this is a slow-sipping drink that will provide me months of joy. I didn't want Biden to win, but I have accepted it and I get great pleasure from the REEEEEs of those that cannot (including whiny bitches like SHARK that have shown they are exactly what they rail against).

Greetings!

*Laughing*

No, I'm not a "whiny bitch" about anything. I am certainly not what *I* rail against. I see our country more and more influenced by Marxist ideology, and by Marxist-Globalists and Communists. The fact that you disparage and REEE against me about this merely reveals how blind and ignorant you truly are, HappyDaze.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Cry louder for me, fishy. You're a fucking joke, and I'm happy that others are starting to call you on your politically supercharged idiocy and pro-escalation of violence bullshit for what it is.

Oh, and I though you were ignoring me. Can't stay away, huh?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 09, 2020, 05:21:17 PM
Damn you guys are gona REEEEE so hard on January 20th. I'm ordering popcorn in bulk.
Oh, this is a slow-sipping drink that will provide me months of joy. I didn't want Biden to win, but I have accepted it and I get great pleasure from the REEEEEs of those that cannot (including whiny bitches like SHARK that have shown they are exactly what they rail against).

Greetings!

*Laughing*

No, I'm not a "whiny bitch" about anything. I am certainly not what *I* rail against. I see our country more and more influenced by Marxist ideology, and by Marxist-Globalists and Communists. The fact that you disparage and REEE against me about this merely reveals how blind and ignorant you truly are, HappyDaze.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Cry louder for me, fishy. You're a fucking joke, and I'm happy that others are starting to call you on your politically supercharged idiocy and pro-escalation of violence bullshit for what it is.

Oh, and I though you were ignoring me. Can't stay away, huh?
  Well, lefties escalated to violence and they won..so...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 09, 2020, 05:33:05 PM

  Well, lefties escalated to violence and they won..so...
A part of the left really did. And the other part tried to claim that it was for a "good cause" (it wasn't, learn to investigate a little, morons), or they tried to pretend it wasn't even happening, or that it was "really coming from the Alt-right"(you have to be kidding me, I saw it for myself this time). No wonder why people on the right don't trust their articles, "fact checks", or wise-ass think pieces.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 09, 2020, 05:38:24 PM
I hope they are fucking strung up and hung. Every fucking executive. All their cock-sucking staff strung out and crushed. Their company bankrupted and all their money and assets seized. Crush them out, and put the fear of God in all of them. Get them at Midnight, and throw them into the fucking truck. Do this over and over again, to every cock-sucking Liberal traitor company. All of these "Fact Checker" companies, the media outlets, the Big Tech companies. Every time they censor someone, every time they fucking open their cunt mouth and lie--they need to get fucking blasted with a flame-thrower. Hammer them relentlessly, so whenever even one of them suggests indulging their swarmy treasonous tactics, everyone around them has a diarrhea attack, turns white as fucking ghosts, and get that deer-in-the-headlights look. Do this relentlessly, every fucking time, and these shitty companies full of traitors and Liberal Marxist scum will fucking die.

A US Congresswoman threatening Trump supporters with violence? Jaw dropping. It's so incredible what Leftist Democrats can get away with in this country, with our media. *SHARK shakes head in dismay and disgust* I know, I know, nothing that is crazy, low, and treacherous from the Democrats should really surprise me anymore, but somehow, these kinds of episodes of hatred from them still does. *Sigh* And they claim to be "Americans".

Now, I realize that SHARK isn't a state representative, but I still think the contrast is striking between the two quotes. I'm opposed to violence and threats of violence from either side. People have a right to demonstrate peaceably and organize, and to present what they believe in. Speaking your mind doesn't justify violence against someone in a democracy. To cite some contrasting threats:

https://www.katc.com/news/lafayette-parish/higgins-facing-criticism-over-social-media-post-on-armed-militias-in-lafayette

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/12/09/penn-gop-leader-says-her-house-would-be-bombed-if-she-defied-trumps-fraud-claims/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 09, 2020, 05:44:56 PM
Greetings!

Amazing how delusional Libtards are. We have had BLM and ANTIFA mobs rioting through American cities for *months*--burning, looting, and killing, while the Leftist MSM provides cover and soft-peddling narratives for them, and Leftist, Marxist officials and politicians refusing to prosecute these violent, savage mobs, and failing utterly to protect the community's businesses and lawful citizens--and now we also have more Democrat politicians calling for violence against Trump supporters--as well as others demanding that lists of Trump supporters be made up, so that retribution can be pursued against them--

but *I* am being politically supercharged and escalating violence?

Whatever.

I have advocated people becoming educated, and socially and politically resisting--and being armed and defending themselves from the bands of murderous scum. Oh, that's right! Lots of these Marxist BLM and Antifa thugs have been armed with clubs, knives, guns--and other weapons as well. Oh, that's right! Federal authorities have also confirmed that in various places they have also found caches of clubs and other weapons set up for BLM and Antifa mobs--clearly indicating that there is a large-scale organization coordinating and supplying the BLM and Antifa mobs.

Fuck being a sheep! No one is "calling me out" on a fucking thing. HappyDaze can keep Reeing and Reeing--but it won't change the facts that we are faced with violent, Marxist mobs throughout our country--and it doesn't change the fact that I am not "extreme"--but vigilant and resolute.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 09, 2020, 05:46:53 PM
This is exactly why we have recounts -- because we expect there to be some human error in the counts. And we can look and see that the recounts in any state never come up with the exact same number - because there is some margin of human error, usually between 0.01% and 0.1%. In Georgia, combining from all 159 counties, the 2020 recounts changed by around a thousand votes out of over 5 million cast, so around 0.03% change overall. Given 159 counties, there's bound to be some with more significant error in their recount, and some with less.
In a good-sized state like Pennsylvania, where roughly 6.838 million people voted, that means the vote will be off by 683 to 6,813. In other words, your 1 vote amounts to nothing compared to the wave of human error.

Yet another reminder that your vote doesn't matter.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 09, 2020, 05:56:45 PM
I hope they are fucking strung up and hung. Every fucking executive. All their cock-sucking staff strung out and crushed. Their company bankrupted and all their money and assets seized. Crush them out, and put the fear of God in all of them. Get them at Midnight, and throw them into the fucking truck. Do this over and over again, to every cock-sucking Liberal traitor company. All of these "Fact Checker" companies, the media outlets, the Big Tech companies. Every time they censor someone, every time they fucking open their cunt mouth and lie--they need to get fucking blasted with a flame-thrower. Hammer them relentlessly, so whenever even one of them suggests indulging their swarmy treasonous tactics, everyone around them has a diarrhea attack, turns white as fucking ghosts, and get that deer-in-the-headlights look. Do this relentlessly, every fucking time, and these shitty companies full of traitors and Liberal Marxist scum will fucking die.

A US Congresswoman threatening Trump supporters with violence? Jaw dropping. It's so incredible what Leftist Democrats can get away with in this country, with our media. *SHARK shakes head in dismay and disgust* I know, I know, nothing that is crazy, low, and treacherous from the Democrats should really surprise me anymore, but somehow, these kinds of episodes of hatred from them still does. *Sigh* And they claim to be "Americans".

Now, I realize that SHARK isn't a state representative, but I still think the contrast is striking between the two quotes. I'm opposed to violence and threats of violence from either side. People have a right to demonstrate peaceably and organize, and to present what they believe in. Speaking your mind doesn't justify violence against someone in a democracy. To cite some contrasting threats:

https://www.katc.com/news/lafayette-parish/higgins-facing-criticism-over-social-media-post-on-armed-militias-in-lafayette

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/12/09/penn-gop-leader-says-her-house-would-be-bombed-if-she-defied-trumps-fraud-claims/

Greetings!

That's right, Jhkim. Traitors and Marxist gangs need to be crushed. I think that is a good thing, to preserve our nation and our Republic. Swarmy, corrupt fucking companies engaged in treason, in subversion, should be crushed as well. Fined, jailed, stomped the fuck out. YOU don't have a problem with Marxists plough fucking the country and overthrowing our nation, one step at a time, like the boiling frog in a pot--but I certainly do.

The Marxists need to resisted at every opportunity. I am tired of good Americans living in fear of these jackasses and scum. So, yeah, Jhkim, I think the scum should be living in fear. They need to be prosecuted and dragged into court, whatever. I am so sick of everyone ducking their heads and bowing the fuck down to these filthy traitorous animals.

More and more Americans need to rise up and resist the Marxists--or we will lose our Republic. We will lose our freedoms and our civilization. You seem to be just fine with that, but I'm not. I think we should resist at every opportunity.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 09, 2020, 06:00:41 PM
I am not "extreme"--but vigilant and resolute.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
I recall the same kind of thing being screamed out by the nutjobs in the psych ward when we had to strap them down and sedate them. Is that what you need too, fishy? You scream so loudly about cock-sucking, but here you are practically begging for someone to put a shot in your ass.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 09, 2020, 06:11:24 PM
Jhkim continues to amaze.  Those links seem so very comparable; textbook apples to apples.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 09, 2020, 06:21:13 PM
I hope they are fucking strung up and hung. Every fucking executive. All their cock-sucking staff strung out and crushed. Their company bankrupted and all their money and assets seized. Crush them out, and put the fear of God in all of them. Get them at Midnight, and throw them into the fucking truck. Do this over and over again, to every cock-sucking Liberal traitor company. All of these "Fact Checker" companies, the media outlets, the Big Tech companies. Every time they censor someone, every time they fucking open their cunt mouth and lie--they need to get fucking blasted with a flame-thrower. Hammer them relentlessly, so whenever even one of them suggests indulging their swarmy treasonous tactics, everyone around them has a diarrhea attack, turns white as fucking ghosts, and get that deer-in-the-headlights look. Do this relentlessly, every fucking time, and these shitty companies full of traitors and Liberal Marxist scum will fucking die.

A US Congresswoman threatening Trump supporters with violence? Jaw dropping. It's so incredible what Leftist Democrats can get away with in this country, with our media. *SHARK shakes head in dismay and disgust* I know, I know, nothing that is crazy, low, and treacherous from the Democrats should really surprise me anymore, but somehow, these kinds of episodes of hatred from them still does. *Sigh* And they claim to be "Americans".

Now, I realize that SHARK isn't a state representative, but I still think the contrast is striking between the two quotes. I'm opposed to violence and threats of violence from either side. People have a right to demonstrate peaceably and organize, and to present what they believe in. Speaking your mind doesn't justify violence against someone in a democracy. To cite some contrasting threats:

https://www.katc.com/news/lafayette-parish/higgins-facing-criticism-over-social-media-post-on-armed-militias-in-lafayette

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/12/09/penn-gop-leader-says-her-house-would-be-bombed-if-she-defied-trumps-fraud-claims/
Explain to me what exactly does justify violence in a democracy?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 09, 2020, 06:43:30 PM
Explain to me what exactly does justify violence in a democracy?

Everything in society comes down to the threat of violence followed by actual violence.

It is people like SHARK that keep your walled garden safe from the snakes outside.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 09, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
Explain to me what exactly does justify violence in a democracy?

Everything in society comes down to the threat of violence followed by actual violence.

It is people like SHARK that keep your walled garden safe from the snakes outside.
Wrong. It's morons like SHARK that mistake everyone walking by for a snake and pretty soon starts seeing the gardeners and even the garden owner as snakes too.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 09, 2020, 07:36:12 PM
Explain to me what exactly does justify violence in a democracy?

Everything in society comes down to the threat of violence followed by actual violence.

It is people like SHARK that keep your walled garden safe from the snakes outside.
Wrong. It's morons like SHARK that mistake everyone walking by for a snake and pretty soon starts seeing the gardeners and even the garden owner as snakes too.

You mean like the Professors in the Universities that have finally figured out why everyone else has been doing Communism wrong for all of these years and or sell the Chinese state secrets?

Why would they ever be confused as snakes?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 09, 2020, 08:01:09 PM
Explain to me what exactly does justify violence in a democracy?

Everything in society comes down to the threat of violence followed by actual violence.

It is people like SHARK that keep your walled garden safe from the snakes outside.
Wrong. It's morons like SHARK that mistake everyone walking by for a snake and pretty soon starts seeing the gardeners and even the garden owner as snakes too.

Counterpoint: SHARK is just a guy venting in a relatively obscure online forum (where his words, even if sometimes a little extreme, can't really hurt or even influence anyone to hurt someone else--cuz, really, how many people does he even reach?), and you're a "shitstain" pretending that he has nothing to be concerned about (despite all evidence to the contrary).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 09, 2020, 08:07:45 PM
(despite all evidence to the contrary)
Oh, yes, your lack of understanding of what comprises "evidence" has been quite apparent for the last month. But by all means, keep sticking up for your boyfriend, whether that's SHARK or Trump. Neither seems to be all that capable of doing much winning lately.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 09, 2020, 08:19:14 PM
(despite all evidence to the contrary)
Oh, yes, your lack of understanding of what comprises "evidence" has been quite apparent for the last month.

And yet, no one's actually called me out on it or provided examples of me not knowing WTH "evidence" is, and I have NO clue WTF you're even talking about. But you can just claim it into existence, cuz this is the internet.

But by all means, keep sticking up for your boyfriend, whether that's SHARK or Trump. Neither seems to be all that capable of doing much winning lately.

Damn! That's homophobic AF! Or are you gonna pretend to be a "neocon", like Shitwell?  :P
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 09, 2020, 09:06:41 PM
(despite all evidence to the contrary)
Oh, yes, your lack of understanding of what comprises "evidence" has been quite apparent for the last month. But by all means, keep sticking up for your boyfriend, whether that's SHARK or Trump. Neither seems to be all that capable of doing much winning lately.

Come on Happy, casting stones so soon after losing your sweet China Wuhan virus gig?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 09, 2020, 09:07:00 PM
(despite all evidence to the contrary)
Oh, yes, your lack of understanding of what comprises "evidence" has been quite apparent for the last month.

And yet, no one's actually called me out on it or provided examples of me not knowing WTH "evidence" is, and I have NO clue WTF you're even talking about. But you can just claim it into existence, cuz this is the internet.

But by all means, keep sticking up for your boyfriend, whether that's SHARK or Trump. Neither seems to be all that capable of doing much winning lately.

Damn! That's homophobic AF! Or are you gonna pretend to be a "neocon", like Shitwell?  :P
Homophobic? Why, are you a man?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 09, 2020, 09:10:22 PM
(despite all evidence to the contrary)
Oh, yes, your lack of understanding of what comprises "evidence" has been quite apparent for the last month. But by all means, keep sticking up for your boyfriend, whether that's SHARK or Trump. Neither seems to be all that capable of doing much winning lately.

Come on Happy, casting stones so soon after losing your sweet China Wuhan virus gig?
Gotta admit, the money I walked away from was attractive, but it was a bad gig. It's OK though, I'm weighing two offers right now that pay a little less but are far more stable and don't make me feel like I'm tending a dumpster fire. I may have a third to consider "shortly" (OK, it's the VA, and they don't really do anything quickly).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 09, 2020, 09:14:02 PM

  Well, lefties escalated to violence and they won..so...
A part of the left really did. And the other part tried to claim that it was for a "good cause" (it wasn't, learn to investigate a little, morons), or they tried to pretend it wasn't even happening, or that it was "really coming from the Alt-right"(you have to be kidding me, I saw it for myself this time). No wonder why people on the right don't trust their articles, "fact checks", or wise-ass think pieces.

Greetings!

Excellent points, Trond! And, unfortunately, so very true. There was once a time here in America where much of the media strove for being balanced, objective, and fair--while also being patriotic, decent, and loyal. And even the media outlets, think tanks, and so on that were more biased one way or another, openly admitted such, though even they also mostly worked under the same professional standards and social expectations.

That has steadily eroded over the years, and coalesced into an obvious landslide of most of such organizations being not merely biased, but eagerly embracing Leftist Marxism, while to your face earnestly denying it. Now, in collusion with Big Tech, they are openly supporting censorship and information control, and viciously smearing, belittling, or dismissing anyone that doesn't suck down the approved narrative.

Very disturbing, my friend, and not a good barometer for future trends for sure!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 09, 2020, 09:17:03 PM
Explain to me what exactly does justify violence in a democracy?

Everything in society comes down to the threat of violence followed by actual violence.

It is people like SHARK that keep your walled garden safe from the snakes outside.
Wrong. It's morons like SHARK that mistake everyone walking by for a snake and pretty soon starts seeing the gardeners and even the garden owner as snakes too.

You mean like the Professors in the Universities that have finally figured out why everyone else has been doing Communism wrong for all of these years and or sell the Chinese state secrets?

Why would they ever be confused as snakes?

Greetings!

*laughing* You know that's right, Shasarak! The professors actually look at you with a straight face maintaining that BS! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 09, 2020, 09:17:16 PM

  Well, lefties escalated to violence and they won..so...
A part of the left really did. And the other part tried to claim that it was for a "good cause" (it wasn't, learn to investigate a little, morons), or they tried to pretend it wasn't even happening, or that it was "really coming from the Alt-right"(you have to be kidding me, I saw it for myself this time). No wonder why people on the right don't trust their articles, "fact checks", or wise-ass think pieces.

Greetings!

Excellent points, Trond! And, unfortunately, so very true. There was once a time here in America where much of the media strove for being balanced, objective, and fair--while also being patriotic, decent, and loyal. And even the media outlets, think tanks, and so on that were more biased one way or another, openly admitted such, though even they also mostly worked under the same professional standards and social expectations.

That has steadily eroded over the years, and coalesced into an obvious landslide of most of such organizations being not merely biased, but eagerly embracing Leftist Marxism, while to your face earnestly denying it. Now, in collusion with Big Tech, they are openly supporting censorship and information control, and viciously smearing, belittling, or dismissing anyone that doesn't suck down the approved narrative.

Very disturbing, my friend, and not a good barometer for future trends for sure!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
They have thrown down the gauntlet at last! Get your guns, boyz, it's TIME: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP8AKAIhQLw
(unfortunately, i dont have a legal firearm around.  :-[ so I'll have to sit this one out!)
------------------------
I know I'm late to the thread, but just some insider information for you all:
This threat is real enough. Seeing that she is a member of a Direct Action ( see origins: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squamish_Five ) Committee,  a member of the state legislature , AND a long standing PRC sympathizer (now absorbed - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupamaros ). The unrelenting stream of illegal immigrants over the last few decades along with CIA money laundering operations (mostly having to do with these and other groups) have led up to this. IN NO WAY IS ANYONE SAFE FROM THIS THREAT.

I REPEAT - NO ONE IS SAFE FROM THIS THREAT.
First, it's Trump supporters, then it's the Christians, then the Jews, then the Athiests, then the Academics... you get the idea. THIS IS WWIII PEOPLE! NOT JOKING!
For the tip of the iceberg, see: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/11/operation-condor-cia-latin-america-repression-torture
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 09, 2020, 09:35:36 PM
Explain to me what exactly does justify violence in a democracy?
Taxation.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 09, 2020, 09:42:05 PM
(despite all evidence to the contrary)
Oh, yes, your lack of understanding of what comprises "evidence" has been quite apparent for the last month.

And yet, no one's actually called me out on it or provided examples of me not knowing WTH "evidence" is, and I have NO clue WTF you're even talking about. But you can just claim it into existence, cuz this is the internet.

But by all means, keep sticking up for your boyfriend, whether that's SHARK or Trump. Neither seems to be all that capable of doing much winning lately.

Damn! That's homophobic AF! Or are you gonna pretend to be a "neocon", like Shitwell?  :P
  Or like Lindsey Graham?  Nothing wrong with confirmed bachelors right?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 09, 2020, 09:44:48 PM
Explain to me what exactly does justify violence in a democracy?

Everything in society comes down to the threat of violence followed by actual violence.

It is people like SHARK that keep your walled garden safe from the snakes outside.
Wrong. It's morons like SHARK that mistake everyone walking by for a snake and pretty soon starts seeing the gardeners and even the garden owner as snakes too.

Counterpoint: SHARK is just a guy venting in a relatively obscure online forum (where his words, even if sometimes a little extreme, can't really hurt or even influence anyone to hurt someone else--cuz, really, how many people does he even reach?), and you're a "shitstain" pretending that he has nothing to be concerned about (despite all evidence to the contrary).

Greetings!

Excellent point, VisionStorm! Perhaps I'm wrong, but I approach our little website here like a favourite pub, or a bar and grill down the road a bit. I often grab some pizza or something else to eat while having some coffee, and then smoking a pipe or a cigar while reading the news, and stepping in here to discuss gaming and politics and current events. Many folks here, like myself, are also military veterans. Just like a bar and grill, occasionally different people will stop by and join in the discussions, or the waitress or bartender too. I don't moderate my commentary here like I am speaking with total strangers, grandmothers, or children. So, you are quite right, my friend, I do my fair share of "venting"--just like in the same manner, I expect everyone else gathered around the table is doing as well.

Certainly, I would curate my words more so if I was an official, like a state legislator--but I'm not. Just like no one else here is, either. So, I like to appreciate the notion that we are freer to express ourselves, venting, debating and arguing different issues of the day in that kind of context. As for an official State Legislator--like Cynthia Johnson--her video and commentary can thus rightfully be viewed in an entirely different context.

Beyond that, I don't expect nor would I want people to moderate themselves in some phony, shallow manner as if they are speaking to a room full of grandmothers or what have you. Imagine how saccharine sweet and mind bogglingly dull that would be, you know? Not to mention, as we all I'm sure are familiar with, officials, lawyers, and politicians routinely embrace always looking good, looking sweet, and always talking with assured self-importance--but most of their time they gibber endlessly and say nothing important or meaningful. I routinely speak to lots of normal people--fellow church members, businessmen, merchants, the barber, mechanics, various professionals, law enforcement members--and they often express their views that such traitor and scum should be shot, or swing, or be thrown into Gitmo, and more besides. In that regard, some of my exuberant and stern views are not some horrific social outlier, some terrible cry of a monster--but are quite in good company of many other fellow citizens, and probably a solid majority. I'm sure that you are also familiar with many ordinary fellow Americans that express such opinions generally similar to my own.

It is weird to me though, that some members here talk like they are from another planet entirely, you know? It brings to my mind yet more subtle and not-so-subtle examples of how steep our cultural divide in our country has become.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 09, 2020, 09:46:24 PM

  Well, lefties escalated to violence and they won..so...
A part of the left really did. And the other part tried to claim that it was for a "good cause" (it wasn't, learn to investigate a little, morons), or they tried to pretend it wasn't even happening, or that it was "really coming from the Alt-right"(you have to be kidding me, I saw it for myself this time). No wonder why people on the right don't trust their articles, "fact checks", or wise-ass think pieces.

Greetings!

Excellent points, Trond! And, unfortunately, so very true. There was once a time here in America where much of the media strove for being balanced, objective, and fair--while also being patriotic, decent, and loyal. And even the media outlets, think tanks, and so on that were more biased one way or another, openly admitted such, though even they also mostly worked under the same professional standards and social expectations.

That has steadily eroded over the years, and coalesced into an obvious landslide of most of such organizations being not merely biased, but eagerly embracing Leftist Marxism, while to your face earnestly denying it. Now, in collusion with Big Tech, they are openly supporting censorship and information control, and viciously smearing, belittling, or dismissing anyone that doesn't suck down the approved narrative.

Very disturbing, my friend, and not a good barometer for future trends for sure!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
They have thrown down the gauntlet at last! Get your guns, boyz, it's TIME: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP8AKAIhQLw
(unfortunately, i dont have a legal firearm around.  :-[ so I'll have to sit this one out!)
  That video is LOL.  That lady has been sniffing her own farts too long.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 09, 2020, 10:07:34 PM
What a JOKE this has all become! Are all you people here truly that APATHETIC to your own SURVIVAL??!!
(i guess so...)

Well, here's some more STUFF TO AVOID - wouldn't want to ruin your chances of going to an early GRAVE, or anything:

Now MI has shown their true colors:
https://openstates.org/mi/bills/2019-2020/HR188/
Wow! If your scroll down, there's that POS (i mean poc!) rep that threatened people just a little while ago! MUST BE A THEORY FOR IT TO BE A CONSPIRACY, right?
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1336653276192800768

Now these so-called PARTY OF PEACE AND PROGRESS have someone to really fight:
https://twitter.com/LeeChatfield/status/1336737371149242372

SCOTUS has shown it's in on this as well:
https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1336451735150350336

Biden & Harris are getting SUED:
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1336544774598262786
lol at this one!

This is very interesting, the Texas Lawsuit! I don't think it's got a chance, though-
http://www.worldwire.news/post/breaking-down-the-texas-lawsuit

A major point of the lawsuit is going to hinge on the fact that local officials in these 4 states changed voting policies, including the expansion of mail-in ballots because of the COVID-19 pandemic, without the permission of state legislatures. According to Article 2 of the U.S. Constitution, “Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors.” The Texas lawsuit brought by AG Paxton alleges that the local officials “do not have the constitutional authority to change voting procedures” regardless of whatever COVID-related emergency power they may have.”
 
Paxtons argument is that it is the responsibility of state legislatures per the Constitution to set the rules for the election, and in this case those were overridden in the four states by other officials whether they were judges or other government officials and that’s not the way our Constitution set it up to work, regardless of pandemic protocols.

Texas is asking the Supreme Court to to stop Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin from voting in the Electoral College. Paxon is also asking the high court to vacate the states’ certification of Biden’s victories and order legislators to assign each state’s electoral votes, a move that could shift the election victory to President Donald Trump. Texas also is asking the Supreme Court to delay the Dec. 14 deadline for Electoral College votes to be cast.

Trump is going to send his own people in to the Texas Suit:
https://www.theepochtimes.com/trump-says-he-will-intervene-in-texas-scotus-election-case_3611062.html
(Hope they can all fit! ;D )

And now, for the punchline: https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1336728206255284224
Trumpers are now being called PLAGUE RATS... maybe their all Jewish, after all? RIGHT?!

CONCOMMS:
Quote
EAM LOYALISTS:
Those that are still loyal to the constitution
RED1: POTUS twitter removal
narrative control, safe harbor date hit, push president elect Biden narrative, remove those who counter narrative. Trump no longer has protections
RED2: Central communications blackout [continental US]
 the fake narrative of now election fraud has been defeated, evidence produced,   social media platforms  hit the kill switch to control narrative, narrative control via the   the MSM, Emergency Alert System on deck
RED3: CLAS movement PELOSI or PENCE
Hide either the VP or SOH, this makes sense now
RED4: Movement of MIL assets [10th Mountain_1st Marine_CPSD_Marine_QVIR] to central locations under guise of citizen riot control.
Quick response marines prepare
RED5: NAT MIL COM CEN
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Military_Command_Center
The National Military Command Center (NMCC)[1] is a Pentagon command and communications center for the National Command Authority (i.e., the President of the United States and the United States Secretary of Defense). 
RED6: SEC OF DEF _instruct1
Sec of defense relay orders, Epser was terminated and replaced by christopher miller
USSS
CASTLE_ROCK
Lock down White House.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 10, 2020, 12:11:29 AM
I sure hope you get the sort of police you deserve.

By virtue of living in progressive communities, with substantial community involvement including myself, I have gotten the sort of police I deserve, thank you. I would like to extend competent, honest, professional policing to all communities.
  No, you have not.  But I think you will.

Police brutality: https://www.cato.org/blog/president-trump-endorses-police-brutality
Secret police: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07/trump-administration-deploying-secret-police-against-protesters-in-portland
Extrajudicial killings: https://www.businessinsider.com/video-trump-celebrates-polices-extrajudicial-killing-in-washington-2020-9

It's karma, not rawma, saying that you deserve to be on the receiving end of that kind of policing. You think your politics will shield you from it forever, but you are mistaken.

I want competent, honest policing with suitable oversight everywhere in the US, even though you don't deserve it, because the policing you deserve will harm many who do not deserve it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 10, 2020, 12:26:44 AM
I sure hope you get the sort of police you deserve.

By virtue of living in progressive communities, with substantial community involvement including myself, I have gotten the sort of police I deserve, thank you. I would like to extend competent, honest, professional policing to all communities.
  No, you have not.  But I think you will.

Police brutality: https://www.cato.org/blog/president-trump-endorses-police-brutality
Secret police: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07/trump-administration-deploying-secret-police-against-protesters-in-portland
Extrajudicial killings: https://www.businessinsider.com/video-trump-celebrates-polices-extrajudicial-killing-in-washington-2020-9

It's karma, not rawma, saying that you deserve to be on the receiving end of that kind of policing. You think your politics will shield you from it forever, but you are mistaken.

I want competent, honest policing with suitable oversight everywhere in the US, even though you don't deserve it, because the policing you deserve will harm many who do not deserve it.
What? Like revenge killings, death squads, star chambers, and stepped tier laws? Sorry to inform you on this - but that is the very thing YOUR SIDE has done, mainly as a way to DE-LEGITIMIZE actual laws and practices. Remember: It was under OBAMA that we had "Free Speech Zones"/Cages, police militarization, taking permit money and then not allowing protests. IT WAS YOUR SIDE WHO DID ALL THIS! So, everything you have stated, whether you realize this or not, is a LIE. A big fucking lie.

But now we're all plague rats anyway. No longer human beings worthy of life. Come over my house little bitch and KILL ME!
I dare you, fucking POS.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 10, 2020, 12:35:43 AM
This is exactly why we have recounts -- because we expect there to be some human error in the counts. And we can look and see that the recounts in any state never come up with the exact same number - because there is some margin of human error, usually between 0.01% and 0.1%. In Georgia, combining from all 159 counties, the 2020 recounts changed by around a thousand votes out of over 5 million cast, so around 0.03% change overall. Given 159 counties, there's bound to be some with more significant error in their recount, and some with less.
In a good-sized state like Pennsylvania, where roughly 6.838 million people voted, that means the vote will be off by 683 to 6,813. In other words, your 1 vote amounts to nothing compared to the wave of human error.

Yet another reminder that your vote doesn't matter.

No recount has ever swung the result by anywhere near 6813 votes in a statewide election. Typically the errors would cancel out, because they affect ballots for both sides equally (in any election close enough to bother recounting). For example, in Wisconsin, with only two counties being recounted, Trump gained 45 votes in Dane County and lost 132 in Milwaukee County. The error rate (177 out of the votes cast, or about 0.02%) is about double the change in the result (87 out of the votes cast, or about 0.01%), assuming all the errors in each county went in one direction. The error rate was probably higher, because different areas within each county likely had changes cancelling out.

The chances that your vote is decisive under a perfectly accurate count is infintesimal; elections are rarely decided by one vote and never over an entire state the size of Pennsylvania. So maybe you should just stay home in future elections.

But because there is no particular bias in the errors in counting, your single vote is just as likely to influence the outcome as in an election with a perfectly accurate count.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 10, 2020, 01:36:11 AM
Police brutality: https://www.cato.org/blog/president-trump-endorses-police-brutality
Secret police: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07/trump-administration-deploying-secret-police-against-protesters-in-portland
Extrajudicial killings: https://www.businessinsider.com/video-trump-celebrates-polices-extrajudicial-killing-in-washington-2020-9

It's karma, not rawma, saying that you deserve to be on the receiving end of that kind of policing. You think your politics will shield you from it forever, but you are mistaken.

I want competent, honest policing with suitable oversight everywhere in the US, even though you don't deserve it, because the policing you deserve will harm many who do not deserve it.
What? Like revenge killings, death squads, star chambers, and stepped tier laws? Sorry to inform you on this - but that is the very thing YOUR SIDE has done, mainly as a way to DE-LEGITIMIZE actual laws and practices. Remember: It was under OBAMA that we had "Free Speech Zones"/Cages, police militarization, taking permit money and then not allowing protests. IT WAS YOUR SIDE WHO DID ALL THIS! So, everything you have stated, whether you realize this or not, is a LIE. A big fucking lie.

Well, even if something I said were incorrect, my not realizing that would make it a mistake, not a lie. But nothing I said is incorrect. So perhaps you can identify what you think is incorrect.

Regarding your litany of "revenge killings, death squads, star chambers, and stepped tier laws" (which I guess you think are bad? it's hard to tell) - these don't exactly seem to be common things in the United States, so you'll have to be more clear as to what you're talking about. The main revenge killings here seem to be capital punishment, which I oppose. Death squads in the United States, like the Compton Executioners? What star chambers exist? What are stepped tier laws?

Free speech zones date back a lot farther than Obama:
Quote from: Wikipedia
Though free speech zones existed prior to the Presidency of George W. Bush, it was during Bush's presidency that their scope was greatly expanded. These zones continued through the presidency of Barack Obama; he signed a bill in 2012 that expanded the power of the Secret Service to restrict speech and make arrests.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone

Don't get too excited about that last sentence; the Secret Service doesn't have that many agents.

Police militarization started much before Obama:
Quote
Created as part of 1997’s National Defense Authorization Act, the 1033 program allows the Department of Defense to get rid of excess equipment by passing it off to local authorities, who only have to pay for the cost of shipping. (A precursor, the slightly more restrictive 1208 program, began in 1990.)
https://www.wired.com/story/pentagon-hand-me-downs-militarize-police-1033-program/

I don't know what "taking fees and not allowing protests" you mean; it seems there are plenty of protests and counter-protests anyway.

The Obama administration used consent decrees to rein in police department abuses; the Trump administration stopped that.
https://www.vox.com/2020/6/30/21281041/trump-justice-department-consent-decrees-jeff-sessions-police-violence-abuse

Quote
But now we're all plague rats anyway. No longer human beings worthy of life. Come over my house little bitch and KILL ME!
I dare you, fucking POS.

You seem to have mistaken me for the bogeyman under your bed.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 10, 2020, 04:36:39 AM
The chances that your vote is decisive under a perfectly accurate count is infintesimal; elections are rarely decided by one vote and never over an entire state the size of Pennsylvania. So maybe you should just stay home in future elections.
That's my point.

Your vote doesn't matter. Voting is a collective delusion, an article of faith. The margin of human error is just another example of why.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 10, 2020, 05:03:04 AM
Since the first video was unacceptably ambiguous, she posted a follow-up

https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1336911742815797248?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 10, 2020, 08:11:08 AM
Eric 'Nukem' Swalwell needs to be kicked off the Intelligence Committee.

One, because he's a fucking treasonous moron. Two, because I bet you top dollar he was banging China Fang.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 10, 2020, 11:05:22 AM
Since the first video was unacceptably ambiguous, she posted a follow-up

https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1336911742815797248?s=20

Wait, didn't you get the memo? It's the Republicans that are unhinged. The Republicans!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 10, 2020, 01:35:06 PM
The chances that your vote is decisive under a perfectly accurate count is infintesimal; elections are rarely decided by one vote and never over an entire state the size of Pennsylvania. So maybe you should just stay home in future elections.
That's my point.

Your vote doesn't matter. Voting is a collective delusion, an article of faith. The margin of human error is just another example of why.

My vote mattered, in combination with another 81 million plus voters; that's why we have President-elect Joe Biden.

Do you actually vote in any large scale elections? I have voted in minor elections with only candidates who were unopposed, as a matter of civic involvement.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 10, 2020, 02:16:52 PM
The chances that your vote is decisive under a perfectly accurate count is infintesimal; elections are rarely decided by one vote and never over an entire state the size of Pennsylvania. So maybe you should just stay home in future elections.
That's my point.

Your vote doesn't matter. Voting is a collective delusion, an article of faith. The margin of human error is just another example of why.

My vote mattered, in combination with another 81 million plus voters; that's why we have President-elect Joe Biden.

Do you actually vote in any large scale elections? I have voted in minor elections with only candidates who were unopposed, as a matter of civic involvement.

It's interesting how this doesn't actually address Pat's point. It merely reasserts the notion that votes matter, as an article of faith (since you didn't prove it), then clapback with a value judgement about civic involvement, while bringing up unopposed candidates--which if anything reaffirm the notion that voting doesn't matter, since those candidates are basically guaranteed election, cuz no one can vote against them.

Even your mention of (presumed) "President-elect" Joe Biden reaffirms the pointlessness of voting, since he's the bland, senile war mongering corporate stooge the Democraptic party pushed into the ticket, along with his unpopular VP "top cop" attorney general POS who had to drop out of the primaries with zero votes, yet somehow still became VP (to a senile old guy who's probably gonna die or be declared incompetent to perform the duties of President before his first term is up). Neither of which are exemplars of actual progressive or "left-wing" values (whatever that even means anymore), but rather complete political creatures of the establishment. But they're the only option that the so-called "Left" had available, cuz that's the only choice the supposedly "Left" wing Democraptic party gave them, cuz Orange Man Bad.

All of these things exemplify how voting (and even civic involvement in general, to an extent) is a completely pointless exercise.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 10, 2020, 02:36:01 PM
All of these things exemplify how voting (and even civic involvement in general, to an extent) is a completely pointless exercise.
And how would you prefer to have our leaders selected?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 10, 2020, 02:45:46 PM
All of these things exemplify how voting (and even civic involvement in general, to an extent) is a completely pointless exercise.
And how would you prefer to have our leaders selected?

Cage Death Match.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 10, 2020, 02:48:50 PM
All of these things exemplify how voting (and even civic involvement in general, to an extent) is a completely pointless exercise.
And how would you prefer to have our leaders selected?

Cage Death Match.

^Beat me to it.

I was gonna say Gladiatorial Arena, but close enough.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 10, 2020, 03:09:36 PM
All of these things exemplify how voting (and even civic involvement in general, to an extent) is a completely pointless exercise.
And how would you prefer to have our leaders selected?

Cage Death Match.

^Beat me to it.

I was gonna say Gladiatorial Arena, but close enough.

**High five**
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 10, 2020, 03:13:41 PM
If we had gone that way, who do you think our President-elect would be (from the candidates that ran)?

Also, would it be tag-team with the VP candidates jumping in too?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 10, 2020, 04:11:46 PM
If we had gone that way, who do you think our President-elect would be (from the candidates that ran)?

Also, would it be tag-team with the VP candidates jumping in too?

If there is any justice:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/09/78/f2/0978f21f52a72172ab1cfd35ee214e0f.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 10, 2020, 04:47:21 PM
The chances that your vote is decisive under a perfectly accurate count is infintesimal; elections are rarely decided by one vote and never over an entire state the size of Pennsylvania. So maybe you should just stay home in future elections.
That's my point.

Your vote doesn't matter. Voting is a collective delusion, an article of faith. The margin of human error is just another example of why.

The margin of human error doesn't show anything of the sort. Regular human error in counting doesn't change the *average* effect of a single vote. But you can say this about any collective action, down to the very smallest. Say, a friend of yours needs help to go to the hospital. You offer to take him - but someone else already volunteered. Did your offer not make a difference? I'd say yes, it still did.

This sounds like a purely emotional reaction from feeling depressed. "Oh, nothing I do matters." But when Trump won, did you feel the same way about voting? Little things add up, and small changes can make a difference. It can be hard to *feel* that emotionally, but it's true.


Since the first video was unacceptably ambiguous, she posted a follow-up

https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1336911742815797248?s=20

Wait, didn't you get the memo? It's the Republicans that are unhinged. The Republicans!

There are plenty of people who are unhinged among both the Republicans and the Democrats. If anyone disagrees with that, that just means their hyper-partisan blinders are too strong. I can't do that much about all the unhinged people in the world, but I can at least point out when people I'm talking to are becoming unhinged.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 10, 2020, 04:49:18 PM
If we had gone that way, who do you think our President-elect would be (from the candidates that ran)?

Also, would it be tag-team with the VP candidates jumping in too?

Tulsi Gabbard, cuz she's a vet with military training, who's still in shape and practiced Capoeira, so she would've risen through the primaries, beating every other Democraptic candidate, in order to finally face off against Donald Trump, who's an overweight old man.

Andrew Yang also practices Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, so he'd probably been her PV pick.

Win-Win
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 10, 2020, 04:55:43 PM
This woman is really into posting videos lately.  “The Biden-Harris administration owes the city of Detroit...oh yes.” 

https://twitter.com/pghowie3/status/1337138069506494465?s=21
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 10, 2020, 04:56:52 PM
If we had gone that way, who do you think our President-elect would be (from the candidates that ran)?

Also, would it be tag-team with the VP candidates jumping in too?

Tulsi Gabbard, cuz she's a vet with military training, who's still in shape and practiced Capoeira, so she would've risen through the primaries, beating every other Democraptic candidate, in order to finally face off against Donald Trump, who's an overweight old man.

Andrew Yang also practices Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, so he'd probably been her PV pick.

Win-Win
Did you consider candidates from outside the major parties? Presumably even Kanye could have taken down Trump in the arena.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 10, 2020, 05:20:43 PM
If we had gone that way, who do you think our President-elect would be (from the candidates that ran)?

Also, would it be tag-team with the VP candidates jumping in too?

Tulsi Gabbard, cuz she's a vet with military training, who's still in shape and practiced Capoeira, so she would've risen through the primaries, beating every other Democraptic candidate, in order to finally face off against Donald Trump, who's an overweight old man.

Andrew Yang also practices Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, so he'd probably been her PV pick.

Win-Win
Did you consider candidates from outside the major parties? Presumably even Kanye could have taken down Trump in the arena.

Damn, might be a toss up if we include Kanye. Tulsi would have probably beaten the Green and Libertarian candidates, but Kanye is a relatively young and healthy tall man in good shape, which would give him an edge over a tiny woman. I'm not really a fan of him and don't really follow him, so I'm not sure what sort of training he has, but I read somewhere that he apparently knows Karate. so he might know how to fight. Tulsi would have to rely entirely on technique and strategy against a larger man.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 10, 2020, 06:35:08 PM
If we had gone that way, who do you think our President-elect would be (from the candidates that ran)?

Also, would it be tag-team with the VP candidates jumping in too?

Tulsi Gabbard, cuz she's a vet with military training, who's still in shape and practiced Capoeira, so she would've risen through the primaries, beating every other Democraptic candidate, in order to finally face off against Donald Trump, who's an overweight old man.

Andrew Yang also practices Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, so he'd probably been her PV pick.

Win-Win
Did you consider candidates from outside the major parties? Presumably even Kanye could have taken down Trump in the arena.

Damn, might be a toss up if we include Kanye. Tulsi would have probably beaten the Green and Libertarian candidates, but Kanye is a relatively young and healthy tall man in good shape, which would give him an edge over a tiny woman. I'm not really a fan of him and don't really follow him, so I'm not sure what sort of training he has, but I read somewhere that he apparently knows Karate. so he might know how to fight. Tulsi would have to rely entirely on technique and strategy against a larger man.
This bizarre train of though is perhaps the most meaningful thing I've seen discussed on this thread since the election took place. Celebrity Death Match politics is at least fun to imagine.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 10, 2020, 06:41:01 PM
My vote mattered, in combination with another 81 million plus voters; that's why we have President-elect Joe Biden.

Do you actually vote in any large scale elections? I have voted in minor elections with only candidates who were unopposed, as a matter of civic involvement.

It's interesting how this doesn't actually address Pat's point. It merely reasserts the notion that votes matter, as an article of faith (since you didn't prove it), then clapback with a value judgement about civic involvement, while bringing up unopposed candidates--which if anything reaffirm the notion that voting doesn't matter, since those candidates are basically guaranteed election, cuz no one can vote against them.

I find value in the act of voting, even when there's nothing really contested. And I'll extend the same question to you: do you vote in large elections?

I would be delighted if everyone on this site who believes Trump wuz robbed chose to never vote again, ever.

I do think that civic involvement has value beyond voting; volunteer for a worthy cause and make a difference in your community.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 10, 2020, 06:54:24 PM
This woman is really into posting videos lately.

The woman in question is Cynthia A. Johnson, a Michigan legislator. Her previous video posted about here was taken out of context. I would not be surprised if the same were true of thw one EOTB now posts.
https://www.mediamatters.org/voter-fraud-and-suppression/trump-supporters-lobbed-vile-racist-threats-democratic-official-then

Quote from: State Representative Cynthia A. Johnson
For instance, one of our bright citizens of our country, in Illinois, who happened to voicemail me — unknown, but guess what? FBI, state police, they found her.

So, this is just a warning to you Trumpers — be careful, walk lightly. We ain’t playing with you. Enough of the shenanigans. Enough is enough. And for those of you who are soldiers, you know how to do it. Do it right. Be in order. Make them pay.

The context is that she was threatened, and one of the people doing so was identified by law enforcement; the warning to Trump supporters is about the legal consequences they risk. Also note that she's a state legislator in Michigan, where right wing terrorists wanted to kidnap and execute the governor, so it's probably harder to shrug off death threats.

By the way, the soldiers she asks, repeatedly, to "do it right" are allied activists; from a previous video:
Quote
But I wanted to share something with the soldiers — all you soldiers, soldiers of Christ, soldiers against racism, soldiers against misogyny, soldiers against domestic violence and domestic terrorism. Soldiers, rise. It's time for you to rise.

I personally think her militant tone goes too far, but I haven't had a hundred death threats directed at me in the past week.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 10, 2020, 07:02:03 PM
Yes, we all realize she’s talking to Antifa.

I look forward to the FBI confirming the arrest of this person and prosecuting them.  No, I don’t take the left’s word for it any longer.  If the FBI found someone who threatened her and is prosecuting them it rather undercuts her apparent need to call on her allies, no?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 10, 2020, 07:32:52 PM
This bizarre train of though is perhaps the most meaningful thing I've seen discussed on this thread since the election took place. Celebrity Death Match politics is at least fun to imagine.

Since Youtube has decided that we can not discuss the 2020 election fraud anymore then we have to do something to pass the time.

What we really need is for someone to try to defend Antifa, sorry I mean the allied activists.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 10, 2020, 08:52:14 PM
The chances that your vote is decisive under a perfectly accurate count is infintesimal; elections are rarely decided by one vote and never over an entire state the size of Pennsylvania. So maybe you should just stay home in future elections.
That's my point.

Your vote doesn't matter. Voting is a collective delusion, an article of faith. The margin of human error is just another example of why.

The margin of human error doesn't show anything of the sort. Regular human error in counting doesn't change the *average* effect of a single vote. But you can say this about any collective action, down to the very smallest. Say, a friend of yours needs help to go to the hospital. You offer to take him - but someone else already volunteered. Did your offer not make a difference? I'd say yes, it still did.

This sounds like a purely emotional reaction from feeling depressed. "Oh, nothing I do matters." But when Trump won, did you feel the same way about voting? Little things add up, and small changes can make a difference. It can be hard to *feel* that emotionally, but it's true.
Yes, I felt exactly the same when Trump won. I felt the same when Obama won. And when Dubya won. And when Clinton won. I've felt exactly the same since I was old enough to vote. You're using emotional rhetoric to claim I'm making an emotional argument, but you're just projecting your irreason on me.

Your vote doesn't matter.

I believe that not because of feelings, but because of reason. Let's say you were eligible to vote in every single state and national election in the modern history of the US. Furthermore, let's say you voted in all of those elections. Since there are more than 5,000 state legislators (not even counting other positions), and we'll draw the line at 50 years, conservatively that means you voted at least a hundred thousand times.

In how many of those elections did your vote change the result?

I'm betting none. Zero. Zilch. There might be 1-vote margin if you're voting for the chair of a homeowner's association, or even in a local election. But even then it would be rare, and it just doesn't happen at the state or national level.

Your. Vote. Doesn't. Matter.

So at no point did your vote matter. That the margin of human error overwhelms your single vote by so much just adds insult to injury.

So why's there so much pushback when I point out such a self-evident fact? Because voting does matter, in the collective. Democracies are based on the consensus of the governed, which is expressed by voter participation. But if your individual vote doesn't matter, and will never matter, how do you get people to vote? Democracies cultivate the collective delusion that your vote really does matter.

But it doesn't.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 10, 2020, 10:47:31 PM
This woman is really into posting videos lately.  “The Biden-Harris administration owes the city of Detroit...oh yes.” 

https://twitter.com/pghowie3/status/1337138069506494465?s=21
Detroit? DETROIT?!! Ahhhhhhhhrrrrrggggg!!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 10, 2020, 11:18:59 PM
Because voting does matter, in the collective. Democracies are based on the consensus of the governed, which is expressed by voter participation. But if your individual vote doesn't matter, and will never matter, how do you get people to vote? Democracies cultivate the collective delusion that your vote really does matter.

But it doesn't.

I am reminded of a story of a condemned prisoner sentenced to death; the judge declared "You will be put to death at noon on one of the next three days. But only if the actual day is a surprise, that you will not know until the morning of the execution which day your execution will be."

The prisoner contemplated; the execution could not be on the last day or he would know after noon on the second day. But then it could not be on the second day, for the same reason. And it could not be on the first day, either. So he concluded that he would not in fact be executed.

He was surprised when they took him out of his cell and executed him on the second day.

I would argue that your vote has a chance of having been the deciding vote in any election. Consider the IA-02 congressional election, certified at 196,964 to 196,958. You say a voter on the winning side had no effect because there were 5 other votes if they hadn't vote; I say that they had a one in 196,964 chance of being the vote that put victory over the top. Or even that they had a one in 196,964 share of the victory. Even the voters for the losing candidate can take something away, in that they had a share of preventing the winner from claiming a larger mandate. I suppose you can take some pride in having cancelled out the vote of some wrong-headed person on the other side.

The all or nothing nature of the electoral college does tend to discourage turnout; no point for candidates to advertise or campaign much in states they are certain to win or to lose, and no point for those voting for or against the certain winner to vote. The winning side needs enough voters to win, and the losing side should perhaps even discourage turnout until the moment is ripe for a stealth wave of turnout. A weighted popular vote would encourage engagement with more states and a push to get the most turnout.

But the simplest way to get more turnout is to pay people; a refundable tax credit if you vote. Colorado had an initiative for such a voting tax credit but it didn't get enough signatures to be on the ballot (the governor changed the signature gathering requirements because of the pandemic but a legal challenge struck it down, and presumably it was too hard to get enough in-person signatures by the deadline). (An example of timely legal challenges to election procedures, as opposed to waiting until the result to decide to challenge.)

I'm right now voting for another open beer.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 10, 2020, 11:30:41 PM
You know, when someone threatens your life, your family's life, and your livelihood and then SHOWS UP AT YOUR HOUSE and tells you to PREPARE FOR YOUR IMMENENT DEATH, what would YOU do? Me, well, I start talking and never STFU! But but but it's JUST a conspiracy theory! There is NOTHING to worry about! Is it a good thing I had access to all those servers? Is it a good thing I did not do as I was told? Should all SHIPPING in the continental U.S. have been FUCKED with?... I wish I was a LARP!

To those disingenuous asses here, who cannot see the forest from the trees: Everything I have stated is as real as real can be. Why do you put up a fight against the TRUTH?? I feel sorry for Misty though. They ARE going to round up the Jews. They ARE going to end the diaspora this way. It is NOT safe for anyone here. Why can't you be reasoned with? Why can you not see THROUGH the lies and accept the TRUTH?! I truly feel sorry for you all. If we can end this properly, you will STILL have a voice. Why attempt to discredit and silence when so many will die??

I truly do not understand ANY of you.

Here is my reply to all the FUD being bandied about on MSM:
----------------------------------------------------------
Somebody uploaded some Dominion Voting Machine videos, check out all his stuff - it's VERY interesting indeed:
https://twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1336888380940947457
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1336985434627325953

Appearently, there is a great probability the election was rigged on those machines! Those votes should be thrown out, if true!
They are still investigating this, though: https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-fd11ab2/media/abf7f8e763f88f38bf482086d58acfd5.Eo2Xf08U8AM848R

Disenfranchisement of Republicans, death threats, and fud. Rah Rah Rah! That's a Cheer for those who are completely invested in destroying innocent lives:
https://twitter.com/DavidShafer/status/1336791798753206273
All of this coming from those who have profited from their public service:
https://twitter.com/Wizard_Predicts/status/1337091852277837824

More states join Texas, as the courts falter:
https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1337095294908035075

Think of the strategy,
Texas argues that these states violated the Electors Clause of the Constitution because they made changes to voting rules and procedures through the courts or through executive actions, but not through the state legislatures. Casting and counting of ballots in violated  state law, which, in turn, violated the Electors Clause of Article II, Section 1, Clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution. Texas is asking the Supreme Court to order the states to allow their legislatures to appoint their electors.
This should be successful when following the constitution, it then allows for what happens next. Remember the governors and secretary of state were making these changes, Why were they making these changes, because of COVID. So the Pandemic was used to create EO to change the election laws Why did Kayleigh show individuals violating their own pandemic EO?
Article II, Section 1, Clause 2 is really clear, and guess what there is nothing in the constitution that talks about a pandemic. What argument will they use, the pandemic argument, remember Kayleigh showing all these individuals on a loop, if you can go out to eat, take a vacation, get you hair done, go to a country club, do all these things while telling other they are lockedown, people can get out and vote. changing laws was done illegally and there was no need to change them!

AND WIN BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE:
https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1336808579429527554
https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1337021772869365760

Awfully convenient that the “breaking” federal investigation into Hunter Biden’s “taxes” doesn’t become public until the exact day all 50 states certify their election results.
18 states in this country know that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris cheated. 18 entire states are standing up to the fraudulent Democrat party. This has never happened in the history of America. Media & tech are in overdrive trying to censor the truth. The Left is terrified.

And now, the truth is coming out about WHO is ordering the planning of killings and mass murders:
https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-fd11ab2/media/bbd2930e3d1aac383aebf52f50803d88.Eo3wKFmUYAAnKDz
Do you really think your family is safe from them? Do you think Muslims feel safe in China?

How far are these people willing to go? https://twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1337068249788411904

Those of you in the know, your time is coming! For the rest, due to your apathy, no one will save you but yourselves.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 10, 2020, 11:39:09 PM
I would argue that your vote has a chance of having been the deciding vote in any election. Consider the IA-02 congressional election, certified at 196,964 to 196,958. You say a voter on the winning side had no effect because there were 5 other votes if they hadn't vote; I say that they had a one in 196,964 chance of being the vote that put victory over the top. Or even that they had a one in 196,964 share of the victory. Even the voters for the losing candidate can take something away, in that they had a share of preventing the winner from claiming a larger mandate. I suppose you can take some pride in having cancelled out the vote of some wrong-headed person on the other side.

The all or nothing nature of the electoral college does tend to discourage turnout; no point for candidates to advertise or campaign much in states they are certain to win or to lose, and no point for those voting for or against the certain winner to vote. The winning side needs enough voters to win, and the losing side should perhaps even discourage turnout until the moment is ripe for a stealth wave of turnout. A weighted popular vote would encourage engagement with more states and a push to get the most turnout.

But the simplest way to get more turnout is to pay people; a refundable tax credit if you vote. Colorado had an initiative for such a voting tax credit but it didn't get enough signatures to be on the ballot (the governor changed the signature gathering requirements because of the pandemic but a legal challenge struck it down, and presumably it was too hard to get enough in-person signatures by the deadline). (An example of timely legal challenges to election procedures, as opposed to waiting until the result to decide to challenge.)
It's not a lottery. There isn't a 1:X chance that your vote was the one that put them over the top. Elections, like market transactions, happen on the margin. Prices are determined by what the next person is willing to pay, and elections are decided by the last X people who decided to vote for the candidate of True Evil instead of the candidate of Absolute Evil.

You could say that you have a 1:X share of the victory, but that's purely symbolic. It's wearing your team colors, or being one voice cheering in the crowd, or one set of arms in a wave that circles the stadium. It's more a ritual dance than anything else. You didn't make it happen, and it will happen if you're not there. But it's a way of asserting you're part of the community.

I don't think encouraging more people to vote adds any value. Democracies need a certain level of voter engagement to function, but there's a point of diminishing returns, and it's not particularly high.

A fully participatory democracy would be a lot more valuable, but that requires far more investment than just voting once every couple of years. In ancient Athens, people who could vote were expected to engage in staggering amounts of public service -- their juries alone had 200 to 1,500 members! The iconic New England townhall was similar. But we've lost that level of personal and collective responsibility. Instead people vote, or tweet, or send prayers, or upvote something, and think they've done their duty to make the world better.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 11, 2020, 12:09:36 AM
I don't know who Pat's favorite politician is, but I bet his political opponent hopes that Pat spreads those ideas around some more, you know, among his friends and like-minded.  ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on December 11, 2020, 12:37:39 AM
I charged swiftly through the gathered crowd, up to their little stage, and grabbed the American flag out of this fucker's hands. I had my fist raised, and he exclaimed to me, demanding that I give the American flag back to him. I told him straight to his face that I would kill him right there before God and everyone if he desecrated the American flag. Several other students sought to take the flag from my grip, and I snarled at them, holding the flag tightly, "Who wants to die first?"
(https://media.giphy.com/media/1009wQ2WcsEmBO/source.gif)

No doubt this happened right after his date with his incredibly hot girlfriend whom no one has ever seen ("She's from... Canada!").

We%u2019re all just posting on the Internet Misty.  I%u2019ll give you props for more than that when you post a video of yourself calling shark a dumbass to his face.

If there's anything more pathetic than Baby Shark's tough guy act, it's watching someone trying to play Chester to his Spike.



If you want to hold the coat for AncientGamer1970/KewlMarine's severely retarded cousin...

Well, that's not as cool as you think it is.

And for the record, Baby Shark, just because you masturbate to re-runs of Gomer Pyle USMC doesn't make you the second coming of John Basilone.

Quote
The neocon grift over the base, where corporate welfare and globalism get taken care of, while the base gets to see their kids die in sand wars for Boeing%u2019s stock price, is more at-risk than ever.
 

You say this as though we had Jimmy Carter in the White House these last four years. Trump was more than happy to continue with Obama's war in Yemen, and is even now doing his best to start a new one with Iran. His only major change towards Syria was ditching the Kurds and sending US troops to seize Syrian oil facilities. Bernie Sanders, he is not.

Never seen leftists so damn eager to charge back into the furnace that is the Middle East. I wonder where they dumped Cindy Sheehan after they'd shot their wad with her. Hope they at least left some money on the dresser.

The fact that you are too stupid and/or too dishonest to know the difference between a leftist, a liberal and a Democratic party hack is quite telling. If you want to know what leftists think about Biden's election, check out Jimmy Dore or Katie Halper. If you're interested in the opinions of liberals, TYT is a good place to start, as is the Thom Hartmann Show. If you want to know what DNC establishment-types think, you can tune in to MSNBC. While there is some overlap, pretending they are one and the same makes you a moron.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 11, 2020, 12:52:40 AM

Trump was more than happy to continue with Obama's war in Yemen, and is even now doing his best to start a new one with Iran. His only major change towards Syria was ditching the Kurds and sending US troops to seize Syrian oil facilities. Bernie Sanders, he is not.

...

While there is some overlap, pretending they are one and the [same] makes you a moron.

When you have to finish their posts so the insults make sense, they're not sending their best.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 11, 2020, 01:52:21 AM
I charged swiftly through the gathered crowd, up to their little stage, and grabbed the American flag out of this fucker's hands. I had my fist raised, and he exclaimed to me, demanding that I give the American flag back to him. I told him straight to his face that I would kill him right there before God and everyone if he desecrated the American flag. Several other students sought to take the flag from my grip, and I snarled at them, holding the flag tightly, "Who wants to die first?"
(https://media.giphy.com/media/1009wQ2WcsEmBO/source.gif)

No doubt this happened right after his date with his incredibly hot girlfriend whom no one has ever seen ("She's from... Canada!").

We%u2019re all just posting on the Internet Misty.  I%u2019ll give you props for more than that when you post a video of yourself calling shark a dumbass to his face.

If there's anything more pathetic than Baby Shark's tough guy act, it's watching someone trying to play Chester to his Spike.



If you want to hold the coat for AncientGamer1970/KewlMarine's severely retarded cousin...

Well, that's not as cool as you think it is.

And for the record, Baby Shark, just because you masturbate to re-runs of Gomer Pyle USMC doesn't make you the second coming of John Basilone.

Quote
The neocon grift over the base, where corporate welfare and globalism get taken care of, while the base gets to see their kids die in sand wars for Boeing%u2019s stock price, is more at-risk than ever.
 

You say this as though we had Jimmy Carter in the White House these last four years. Trump was more than happy to continue with Obama's war in Yemen, and is even now doing his best to start a new one with Iran. His only major change towards Syria was ditching the Kurds and sending US troops to seize Syrian oil facilities. Bernie Sanders, he is not.

Never seen leftists so damn eager to charge back into the furnace that is the Middle East. I wonder where they dumped Cindy Sheehan after they'd shot their wad with her. Hope they at least left some money on the dresser.

The fact that you are too stupid and/or too dishonest to know the difference between a leftist, a liberal and a Democratic party hack is quite telling. If you want to know what leftists think about Biden's election, check out Jimmy Dore or Katie Halper. If you're interested in the opinions of liberals, TYT is a good place to start, as is the Thom Hartmann Show. If you want to know what DNC establishment-types think, you can tune in to MSNBC. While there is some overlap, pretending they are one and the same makes you a moron.

Greetings!

*Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 11, 2020, 06:19:04 AM
The bill that should've been passed years ago, before election time came around, brought to you by the only Democrat worth something (who's unfortunately on her way out, since she already said she's isn't running for reelection, likely cuz she doesn't want anything to do with the Democraps anymore).

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 11, 2020, 07:40:47 AM
You say this as though we had Jimmy Carter in the White House these last four years. Trump was more than happy to continue with Obama's war in Yemen, and is even now doing his best to start a new one with Iran. His only major change towards Syria was ditching the Kurds and sending US troops to seize Syrian oil facilities. Bernie Sanders, he is not.
Trump didn't start any new wars, scaled back the troops overseas, met peacefully with North Korea, and arranged peace agreements between multiple Arab states and Israel. He's certainly no pacifistic ideal, but if you're in favor of peace and getting the US out of pointless wars, he's literally the best president we've had since Carter. It's the reason why Ron Paul-style libertarians have positive things to say about Trump, because while he's terrible on the issue most associated with them (monetary and fiscal policy), Murray Rothbard always considered a non-interventionist foreign policy to be more important than any domestic issues.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on December 11, 2020, 09:09:31 AM
Trump didn't start any new wars, scaled back the troops overseas, met peacefully with North Korea, and arranged peace agreements between multiple Arab states and Israel. He's certainly no pacifistic ideal, but if you're in favor of peace and getting the US out of pointless wars, he's literally the best president we've had since Carter. It's the reason why Ron Paul-style libertarians have positive things to say about Trump, because while he's terrible on the issue most associated with them (monetary and fiscal policy), Murray Rothbard always considered a non-interventionist foreign policy to be more important than any domestic issues.

He did start some new wars. More US Troops were dispatched and ops have been ramped up in Africa. One can't "peacefully" meet with North Korea, that is actually impossible as the state of war continues to exist between the Koreas with the U.S. taking an active role in defending the South. The fact that he kissed the A$$ of a dictator is nothing to be proud of, and in fact, shames our country, and the people that died defending against North Korean aggression. In fact he has kissed the A$$ of all the Dictators, because he is one of them, not even pretending not to be so.

The Mid-east Peace agreements is interesting. If we learned anything about the Mideast though, it is that peace does not last there. Know this, prepare accordingly.

Donald Trump is the worst President in History, and I shouldn't even have to tell you that. He has promoted rights of the State over Individual rights, divided this country, unified the bigots, fascists, and predatory capitalists in business leading an orgy of destruction, mayhem, and disarray through major cities, and placed our country on the precipice of a second civil war.

Two good things he did manage to accomplish, he outed the dysfunctional and divided Republican party, clearly showing the people the narcissism of that group. He got us out of the Paris Accords, which like Nato, is the Europeans feeble attempt to control the United States. Every other thing he has done though has damaged Liberty and Justice for all, and promoted the Liberty and Justice of a few.

 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 11, 2020, 09:29:54 AM
I charged swiftly through the gathered crowd, up to their little stage, and grabbed the American flag out of this fucker's hands. I had my fist raised, and he exclaimed to me, demanding that I give the American flag back to him. I told him straight to his face that I would kill him right there before God and everyone if he desecrated the American flag. Several other students sought to take the flag from my grip, and I snarled at them, holding the flag tightly, "Who wants to die first?"
(https://media.giphy.com/media/1009wQ2WcsEmBO/source.gif)

No doubt this happened right after his date with his incredibly hot girlfriend whom no one has ever seen ("She's from... Canada!").

We%u2019re all just posting on the Internet Misty.  I%u2019ll give you props for more than that when you post a video of yourself calling shark a dumbass to his face.

If there's anything more pathetic than Baby Shark's tough guy act, it's watching someone trying to play Chester to his Spike.



If you want to hold the coat for AncientGamer1970/KewlMarine's severely retarded cousin...

Well, that's not as cool as you think it is.

And for the record, Baby Shark, just because you masturbate to re-runs of Gomer Pyle USMC doesn't make you the second coming of John Basilone.

Quote
The neocon grift over the base, where corporate welfare and globalism get taken care of, while the base gets to see their kids die in sand wars for Boeing%u2019s stock price, is more at-risk than ever.
 

You say this as though we had Jimmy Carter in the White House these last four years. Trump was more than happy to continue with Obama's war in Yemen, and is even now doing his best to start a new one with Iran. His only major change towards Syria was ditching the Kurds and sending US troops to seize Syrian oil facilities. Bernie Sanders, he is not.

Never seen leftists so damn eager to charge back into the furnace that is the Middle East. I wonder where they dumped Cindy Sheehan after they'd shot their wad with her. Hope they at least left some money on the dresser.

The fact that you are too stupid and/or too dishonest to know the difference between a leftist, a liberal and a Democratic party hack is quite telling. If you want to know what leftists think about Biden's election, check out Jimmy Dore or Katie Halper. If you're interested in the opinions of liberals, TYT is a good place to start, as is the Thom Hartmann Show. If you want to know what DNC establishment-types think, you can tune in to MSNBC. While there is some overlap, pretending they are one and the same makes you a moron.

Could someone please change Elfdart's diaper?! He shat himself, again!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 11, 2020, 10:33:20 AM
He did start some new wars. More US Troops were dispatched and ops have been ramped up in Africa. One can't "peacefully" meet with North Korea, that is actually impossible as the state of war continues to exist between the Koreas with the U.S. taking an active role in defending the South. The fact that he kissed the A$$ of a dictator is nothing to be proud of, and in fact, shames our country, and the people that died defending against North Korean aggression. In fact he has kissed the A$$ of all the Dictators, because he is one of them, not even pretending not to be so.

The Mid-east Peace agreements is interesting. If we learned anything about the Mideast though, it is that peace does not last there. Know this, prepare accordingly.
Which countries in Africa? Because while he didn't get the US out of Somalia, he did reduce the number of troops. And you can certainly meet peacefully with an enemy, that's how armistices happen. Quick question: How do you feel about Obama's pact with Iran, or opening up relations with Cuba?

I'm less interested in the durability of the peace agreements in the Mideast than that they happened at all. It's a sign of a fundamental shift in the region, and seemingly a positive one. If the US could just end all their military adventurism....

Donald Trump is the worst President in History, and I shouldn't even have to tell you that.
No, it's useful information. I wasn't aware you had TDS.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 11, 2020, 10:40:56 AM
Trump didn't start any new wars, scaled back the troops overseas, met peacefully with North Korea, and arranged peace agreements between multiple Arab states and Israel. He's certainly no pacifistic ideal, but if you're in favor of peace and getting the US out of pointless wars, he's literally the best president we've had since Carter. It's the reason why Ron Paul-style libertarians have positive things to say about Trump, because while he's terrible on the issue most associated with them (monetary and fiscal policy), Murray Rothbard always considered a non-interventionist foreign policy to be more important than any domestic issues.

*snip*

Donald Trump is the worst President in History, and I shouldn't even have to tell you that.

*snip*

Except that you do, because just two decades ago we had one president (the actual worst President in History) who started two illegal wars that ended in hundreds of thousands (if not millions over the years) of deaths and the devastation of multiple countries in the Middle East, sank the US from the highest surplus in the nation's history to its greatest debt ever, started the militarization of police, enacted the Patriot Act, stirred up even more terrorist groups in the process, which ultimately led to masses of refugees fleeing the Middle East into Europe (where more terrorist attacks happened), followed up by another president who continued on his policies, started even more wars and destroyed even more Middle Eastern countries, expanded on the Patriot Act and NSA powers, and granted the President the power to order extrajudicial killings of US citizens (a power Trump never actually used, that I'm aware of). Yet in order to make the claim that Trump is the "worst President in History" you have to rely on the arbitrary assertion that Trump did start wars because "vague, unspecified ops happened in Africa", that you can't peacefully meet with someone you're technically at war with (despite a meeting taking place without a single shot being fired and the two countries not being in open conflict), emotional appeals about "kissing the ass of Dictators" (as opposed to what? Bombing the shit out of North Korea cuz they're under the thumb of a dictator?) and vague allusions to Trump "unifying" bigots, fascists, etc., which are all meaningless buzzwords that the media has completely wiped their ass with arbitrarily applied to countless masses of people, including some I've been involved with (such as GamerGate). All of which apparently trump (pun!) all the actual horrendous shit that the two preceding Presidents did, all because Trump hurts your delicate sensibilities.

That is the definition of Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 11, 2020, 11:04:46 AM
This woman is really into posting videos lately.

The woman in question is Cynthia A. Johnson, a Michigan legislator. Her previous video posted about here was taken out of context. I would not be surprised if the same were true of thw one EOTB now posts.
https://www.mediamatters.org/voter-fraud-and-suppression/trump-supporters-lobbed-vile-racist-threats-democratic-official-then

Quote from: State Representative Cynthia A. Johnson
For instance, one of our bright citizens of our country, in Illinois, who happened to voicemail me — unknown, but guess what? FBI, state police, they found her.

So, this is just a warning to you Trumpers — be careful, walk lightly. We ain’t playing with you. Enough of the shenanigans. Enough is enough. And for those of you who are soldiers, you know how to do it. Do it right. Be in order. Make them pay.

The context is that she was threatened, and one of the people doing so was identified by law enforcement; the warning to Trump supporters is about the legal consequences they risk. Also note that she's a state legislator in Michigan, where right wing terrorists wanted to kidnap and execute the governor, so it's probably harder to shrug off death threats.

By the way, the soldiers she asks, repeatedly, to "do it right" are allied activists; from a previous video:
Quote
But I wanted to share something with the soldiers — all you soldiers, soldiers of Christ, soldiers against racism, soldiers against misogyny, soldiers against domestic violence and domestic terrorism. Soldiers, rise. It's time for you to rise.

I personally think her militant tone goes too far, but I haven't had a hundred death threats directed at me in the past week.

  LOL...right wing terrorists?  You mean the anarchy guys with 3 FBI agents among their ranks?  Are you really falling for that one?  Right wing terrorists DO NOT KIDNAP people.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 11, 2020, 11:19:00 AM
  I guess its project mayhem then.  Oh well, the USA had a good run. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Jaeger on December 11, 2020, 12:54:00 PM
...
18 states in this country know that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris cheated. 18 entire states are standing up to the fraudulent Democrat party. This has never happened in the history of America. Media & tech are in overdrive trying to censor the truth. The Left is terrified.
...


They are terrified because they know what they did.

And they know that consequences will follow if they do not force Trump out.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22O155/163493/20201211095822921_TX-v-State-LeaveReply-2020-12-11.pdf

Texas doesn't hesitate to shoot right back at the assertions made by the four states about its claims. This is just the first section, which deals with the various assertions made in the four responses that Texas's claims have no basis in fact:

Defendant States’ factual defense of the administration of the 2020 election lacks merit. Thus, Texas states a claim on those issues.

A. Pennsylvania’s critiques of the evidence are false.

Pennsylvania attacks Dr. Cicchetti’s probability analysis calculating that the statistical chances of Mr. Biden’s winning the election in the Defendant States individually and collectively, given the known facts, are less than one in a quadrillion. Penn. Br. 6-8. Pennsylvania argues that Dr Cicchetti did not take into account that “votes counted later were indisputably not ‘randomly drawn’ from the same population of votes” in his analysis.  Penn. Br. 6-8.

Pennsylvania is wrong.

First, Dr. Cicchetti did take into account the possibility that votes were not randomly drawn in the later time period but, as stated in his original Declaration, he is not aware of any data that would support such an assertion. See Supplemental Declaration of Charles Cicchetti (“Supp. Cicchetti Decl.”) ¶¶ 2-3. (App. 152a-153a). Second, although Pennsylvania argues that such data is “indisputabl[e]”, Pennsylvania offers in support nothing other than counsel’s assertion. Unsworn statements of counsel, however, are not evidence. See Frazier v. United States, 335 U.S. 497, 503 (1948).

In fact, Pennsylvania’s rebuttal to Dr. Cicchetti’s analysis consists solely of ad hominem attacks, calling it “nonsense” and “worthless”.  Penn Br. 6, 8. Notably, a subsequent analysis by Dr. Cicchetti, comparing Mr. Biden’s underperformance in the Top-50 urban areas in the Country relative to former Secretary Clinton’s performance in the 2016 election, reinforces the unusual statistical improbability of Mr. Biden’s vote totals in the five urban areas in the Defendant States. See Supp. Cicchetti Decl. at ¶¶ 4-12, 20-21. (App. 154a-158a).

Pennsylvania also tries to explain away the reported 400,000 discrepancy between the number of mail-in ballots Pennsylvania sent out as reported on November 2, 2020 (2.7 million) and the figure reported on November 4, 2020 (3.1 million) as described in the Ryan Report. Penn. Br. 6-8; Compl. ¶ 59.

Pennsylvania again conclusorily asserts that the discrepancy is purportedly due to the fact that “
  • f the 3.1 million ballots sent out, 2.7 million were mail-in ballots and 400,000 were absentee ballots.” Pennsylvania Br. 6.  However, as fifteen Pennsylvania legislators stated in the Ryan Report, signed on December 4, 2020: “This discrepancy ... has not been explained.” Compl. ¶ 59. Compl. ¶ 59 (App. 143a-44a).


The Ryan Report states further: “This apparent discrepancy can only be evaluated by reviewing all transaction logs into the SURE system...” (App. 144a). Pennsylvania’s unsupported explanation has no merit.

Notably, Pennsylvania says nothing about the 118,426 ballots that had no mail date, were nonsensically returned before the mailed date, or were improbably returned one day after the mail date. Lastly, Pennsylvania argues that it did not break its promise to this Court to segregate ballots received after November 3, 2020.  Penn. Br. 6.  Justice Alito’s order dated November 6, 2020 belies that argument. See Compl. ¶ 8.  And because Pennsylvania broke its promise to this Court, it is not possible to determine how many tens, or even hundreds of thousands of illegal late ballots were wrongfully counted. Compl. ¶ 55.

B. Georgia’s critiques of the evidence are false.

Georgia argues that the “[r]ejection rates for signatures on absentee ballots remained largely unchanged” as between the 2018 and 2020 elections, referring the Court to Wood v. Raffensperger, No. 1:20-cv-04651-SDG, 2020 WL 6817513, at *10 (N.D. Ga. Nov. 20, 2020) (“Wood”). Georgia Br. 4.  Georgia’s reliance on Wood is misplaced because the analysis therein related to rejection rates for absentee ballots—as opposed to the mail-in ballots analyzed by Dr. Cicchetti. Supp. Cicchetti Decl. ¶¶ 13-19. (App. 158a-60a). Georgia’s rejection rate comparison is therefore inapposite.  Id.

Specifically, the district court in Wood cited to “ECF 33-6” (id. at n.30) which is the affidavit of Chris Harvey, Georgia Director of Elections.  First, the Harvey Affidavit itself does not cite any evidence for signature rejection rates; rather, it relies solely upon a complaint in an unrelated action. Supp. Cicchetti Decl. ¶¶ 14-15. (App. 158a-59a) (citing Democratic Party of Georgia et al. v. Raffensperger).   Second, as explained by Dr. Cicchetti, the Harvey Affidavit relies on 2018 data which does not provide an accurate comparison with a presidential election year. Id. ¶¶ 19, 22. (App. 160a-62a).  More importantly, the Harvey affidavit discusses absentee ballots—not mail-in ballots at issue here and as analyzed by Dr. Cicchetti.  Mail-in ballots are subject to much higher rejection rates. Indeed, in 2018, the rejection rate for mail-in ballots was actually 3.32% or more than twenty times higher than the rejection rate for the absentee ballots that Georgia incorrectly compares to dispute Dr. Cicchetti’s analysis. .  Id. at ¶¶ 16-18. (App. 159a-60a).   In short, Georgia’s attempt to rebut Dr. Cicchetti’s analysis fails. Id. ¶ 22. (App. 161a-62a).

C. Michigan’s critiques of the evidence are false.

Michigan’s argument against the evidence of irregularities in Wayne County’s election process fares no better.  First, Michigan concedes that, with respect to the ballots issued pursuant to the Secretary of State’s unlawful mailing of ballot applications and online ballot applications—which also did not comply with statutory signature verification requirements— "there is no way to associate the voter who used a particular application with his or her ballot after it is voted.” Mich. Br. 9; Compl. ¶¶ 81-87. Michigan’s “heads we win, tails you lose” defense should be rejected.  This is a problem solely of the Secretary of State’s own making.

Michigan also admits that it “is at a loss to explain the[] allegations” showing that Wayne County lists 174,384 absentee ballots that do not tie to a registered voter.  Mich. Br. 15; Compl. ¶ 97.  That is precisely the point.  And it illustrates exactly why the Court should grant Plaintiff’s motion.

Similarly, Michigan’s argument that the fact that 71% of Detroit’s Absent Voter Counting Boards (“AVCBs”) were unbalanced provides no basis not to certify results is false. Mich. Br. 16.  In fact, while Michigan asserts that this “can happen for a number of innocuous reasons” it nonetheless offers no explanation for the highly suspicious circumstances: that this out of balance situation resulted in more than 174,000 votes not being tied to a registered voter; that two members of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers initially voted against certification based on these issues, then voted in favor of certification after receiving both threats and assurances of an immediate audit; and then rescinded their certification votes after the promised audit was refused.  Compl. ¶¶ 99-101. Texas understands that these issues involving Wayne County’s irregular votes have not been adjudicated, and Michigan does not contend otherwise. But it is suggestive at this preliminary stage of the proceeding.

Lastly, Michigan’s attempts to argue away the evidence showing that Wayne County had a policy of not performing signature verifications as required under MCL § 168.765a(6) are misplaced. Mich. Br. 14-15; Compl. ¶¶ 85-87, 92-95.  Michigan cites the affidavit of Christopher Thomas, a consultant for Detroit, used in litigation in Michigan state court, as evidence for its assertion. Mich. Br. 11, 15-16.

Thomas, however, does not state that he personally observed signatures being verified in accordance with MCL § 168.765a(6).  That statute requires that the clerk place a “written statement” or “stamp” on each ballot envelope where the voter signature is placed, indicating that the voter signature was in fact checked and verified with the signature on file with the State. Compl. ¶ 92.  Thus, contrary to Michigan’s argument, Thomas’ assertions do not rebut the testimony of Jessy Jacob, a decades-long City of Detroit employee stating that election workers were instructed not to compare signatures. Id. ¶ 94.  In fact, a poll challenger, Lisa Gage, testified in an affidavit that has not been submitted in any prior litigation, that not a single one of the several hundred to a thousand ballot envelopes she observed had a written statement or stamp indicating the voter signature had been verified at the TCF Center in accordance with MCL § 168.765a(6). Affidavit of Lisa Gage ¶ 17. (App. 165a).

D. Wisconsin’s critiques of the evidence are false.

Wisconsin argues that “Texas offers no proof of a single voter who cast a ballot in the general election who did not qualify for indefinite confinement status.”  Wisc. Br. 31. Under Wisconsin law, “indefinite confinement status” allows a voter to avoid Wisconsin’s statutory photo identification and signature verification requirements.  Compl. ¶¶ 115-17. The number of people claiming this special status exploded from fewer than 57,000 voters in 2016 to nearly 216,000 in 2020.  Compl. ¶ 122.  Wisconsin claims this increase was due to more people voting by mail in 2020.  Wisc. Br. 31.

Voting by mail, however, has nothing to do with being classified as “indefinitely confined.” Wisconsin offers no plausible justification for this nearly four-fold increase in voters claiming this special status. 

Wisconsin also ignores the fact that the Wisconsin Supreme Court found that clerks in Dane County and Milwaukee County had earlier violated Wisconsin law by issuing guidance stating that all voters should identify themselves as “indefinitely confined” on absentee ballot applications because of the COVID-19 pandemic.  Compl. ¶¶ 118-19.  Despite that order, the WEC again violated Wisconsin law and issued a directive to the Wisconsin clerks prohibiting removal of voters from the registry for indefinite-confinement status even if the voter is no longer “indefinitely confined,” thereby cementing this improper practice in the 2020 general election. Id. at ¶¶ 120-21.

Lastly, Wisconsin ignores the sworn testimony of Ethan J. Pease, a box truck delivery driver subcontracted to the U.S. Postal Service (“USPS”) to deliver truckloads of mail-in ballots to the sorting center in Madison, WI, who testified that USPS employees were backdating ballots received after November 3, 2020.  Compl. ¶127. (App. 149a-151a).

Further, Pease testified how a senior USPS employee told him on November 4, 2020 that “An order came down from the Wisconsin/Illinois Chapter of the Postal Service that 100,000 ballots” had been misplaced and described how the USPS dispatched employees to “find[] ... the ballots.” Id. (App. 150a).


The DNC and their Rino allies has been caught. They Know they have been caught.

Any rational person who looks at the evidence given knows shenanigans went down, and at a minimum every closely contested state should have had a complete forensic audit done of their election results.

If at this point you still think Biden won fair and square, you are willingly part of the lie.

You have updated his routine to fit the modern information age, but we know who's advice you are following:

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as Big tech and the Mainstream Media can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for Big tech and the Mainstream Media to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the Left.”

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 11, 2020, 01:08:31 PM
...
18 states in this country know that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris cheated. 18 entire states are standing up to the fraudulent Democrat party. This has never happened in the history of America. Media & tech are in overdrive trying to censor the truth. The Left is terrified.
...


They are terrified because they know what they did.

And they know that consequences will follow if they do not force Trump out.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22O155/163493/20201211095822921_TX-v-State-LeaveReply-2020-12-11.pdf

Texas doesn't hesitate to shoot right back at the assertions made by the four states about its claims. This is just the first section, which deals with the various assertions made in the four responses that Texas's claims have no basis in fact:

Defendant States’ factual defense of the administration of the 2020 election lacks merit. Thus, Texas states a claim on those issues.

A. Pennsylvania’s critiques of the evidence are false.

Pennsylvania attacks Dr. Cicchetti’s probability analysis calculating that the statistical chances of Mr. Biden’s winning the election in the Defendant States individually and collectively, given the known facts, are less than one in a quadrillion. Penn. Br. 6-8. Pennsylvania argues that Dr Cicchetti did not take into account that “votes counted later were indisputably not ‘randomly drawn’ from the same population of votes” in his analysis.  Penn. Br. 6-8.

Pennsylvania is wrong.

First, Dr. Cicchetti did take into account the possibility that votes were not randomly drawn in the later time period but, as stated in his original Declaration, he is not aware of any data that would support such an assertion. See Supplemental Declaration of Charles Cicchetti (“Supp. Cicchetti Decl.”) ¶¶ 2-3. (App. 152a-153a). Second, although Pennsylvania argues that such data is “indisputabl[e]”, Pennsylvania offers in support nothing other than counsel’s assertion. Unsworn statements of counsel, however, are not evidence. See Frazier v. United States, 335 U.S. 497, 503 (1948).

In fact, Pennsylvania’s rebuttal to Dr. Cicchetti’s analysis consists solely of ad hominem attacks, calling it “nonsense” and “worthless”.  Penn Br. 6, 8. Notably, a subsequent analysis by Dr. Cicchetti, comparing Mr. Biden’s underperformance in the Top-50 urban areas in the Country relative to former Secretary Clinton’s performance in the 2016 election, reinforces the unusual statistical improbability of Mr. Biden’s vote totals in the five urban areas in the Defendant States. See Supp. Cicchetti Decl. at ¶¶ 4-12, 20-21. (App. 154a-158a).

Pennsylvania also tries to explain away the reported 400,000 discrepancy between the number of mail-in ballots Pennsylvania sent out as reported on November 2, 2020 (2.7 million) and the figure reported on November 4, 2020 (3.1 million) as described in the Ryan Report. Penn. Br. 6-8; Compl. ¶ 59.

Pennsylvania again conclusorily asserts that the discrepancy is purportedly due to the fact that “
  • f the 3.1 million ballots sent out, 2.7 million were mail-in ballots and 400,000 were absentee ballots.” Pennsylvania Br. 6.  However, as fifteen Pennsylvania legislators stated in the Ryan Report, signed on December 4, 2020: “This discrepancy ... has not been explained.” Compl. ¶ 59. Compl. ¶ 59 (App. 143a-44a).


The Ryan Report states further: “This apparent discrepancy can only be evaluated by reviewing all transaction logs into the SURE system...” (App. 144a). Pennsylvania’s unsupported explanation has no merit.

Notably, Pennsylvania says nothing about the 118,426 ballots that had no mail date, were nonsensically returned before the mailed date, or were improbably returned one day after the mail date. Lastly, Pennsylvania argues that it did not break its promise to this Court to segregate ballots received after November 3, 2020.  Penn. Br. 6.  Justice Alito’s order dated November 6, 2020 belies that argument. See Compl. ¶ 8.  And because Pennsylvania broke its promise to this Court, it is not possible to determine how many tens, or even hundreds of thousands of illegal late ballots were wrongfully counted. Compl. ¶ 55.

B. Georgia’s critiques of the evidence are false.

Georgia argues that the “[r]ejection rates for signatures on absentee ballots remained largely unchanged” as between the 2018 and 2020 elections, referring the Court to Wood v. Raffensperger, No. 1:20-cv-04651-SDG, 2020 WL 6817513, at *10 (N.D. Ga. Nov. 20, 2020) (“Wood”). Georgia Br. 4.  Georgia’s reliance on Wood is misplaced because the analysis therein related to rejection rates for absentee ballots—as opposed to the mail-in ballots analyzed by Dr. Cicchetti. Supp. Cicchetti Decl. ¶¶ 13-19. (App. 158a-60a). Georgia’s rejection rate comparison is therefore inapposite.  Id.

Specifically, the district court in Wood cited to “ECF 33-6” (id. at n.30) which is the affidavit of Chris Harvey, Georgia Director of Elections.  First, the Harvey Affidavit itself does not cite any evidence for signature rejection rates; rather, it relies solely upon a complaint in an unrelated action. Supp. Cicchetti Decl. ¶¶ 14-15. (App. 158a-59a) (citing Democratic Party of Georgia et al. v. Raffensperger).   Second, as explained by Dr. Cicchetti, the Harvey Affidavit relies on 2018 data which does not provide an accurate comparison with a presidential election year. Id. ¶¶ 19, 22. (App. 160a-62a).  More importantly, the Harvey affidavit discusses absentee ballots—not mail-in ballots at issue here and as analyzed by Dr. Cicchetti.  Mail-in ballots are subject to much higher rejection rates. Indeed, in 2018, the rejection rate for mail-in ballots was actually 3.32% or more than twenty times higher than the rejection rate for the absentee ballots that Georgia incorrectly compares to dispute Dr. Cicchetti’s analysis. .  Id. at ¶¶ 16-18. (App. 159a-60a).   In short, Georgia’s attempt to rebut Dr. Cicchetti’s analysis fails. Id. ¶ 22. (App. 161a-62a).

C. Michigan’s critiques of the evidence are false.

Michigan’s argument against the evidence of irregularities in Wayne County’s election process fares no better.  First, Michigan concedes that, with respect to the ballots issued pursuant to the Secretary of State’s unlawful mailing of ballot applications and online ballot applications—which also did not comply with statutory signature verification requirements— "there is no way to associate the voter who used a particular application with his or her ballot after it is voted.” Mich. Br. 9; Compl. ¶¶ 81-87. Michigan’s “heads we win, tails you lose” defense should be rejected.  This is a problem solely of the Secretary of State’s own making.

Michigan also admits that it “is at a loss to explain the[] allegations” showing that Wayne County lists 174,384 absentee ballots that do not tie to a registered voter.  Mich. Br. 15; Compl. ¶ 97.  That is precisely the point.  And it illustrates exactly why the Court should grant Plaintiff’s motion.

Similarly, Michigan’s argument that the fact that 71% of Detroit’s Absent Voter Counting Boards (“AVCBs”) were unbalanced provides no basis not to certify results is false. Mich. Br. 16.  In fact, while Michigan asserts that this “can happen for a number of innocuous reasons” it nonetheless offers no explanation for the highly suspicious circumstances: that this out of balance situation resulted in more than 174,000 votes not being tied to a registered voter; that two members of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers initially voted against certification based on these issues, then voted in favor of certification after receiving both threats and assurances of an immediate audit; and then rescinded their certification votes after the promised audit was refused.  Compl. ¶¶ 99-101. Texas understands that these issues involving Wayne County’s irregular votes have not been adjudicated, and Michigan does not contend otherwise. But it is suggestive at this preliminary stage of the proceeding.

Lastly, Michigan’s attempts to argue away the evidence showing that Wayne County had a policy of not performing signature verifications as required under MCL § 168.765a(6) are misplaced. Mich. Br. 14-15; Compl. ¶¶ 85-87, 92-95.  Michigan cites the affidavit of Christopher Thomas, a consultant for Detroit, used in litigation in Michigan state court, as evidence for its assertion. Mich. Br. 11, 15-16.

Thomas, however, does not state that he personally observed signatures being verified in accordance with MCL § 168.765a(6).  That statute requires that the clerk place a “written statement” or “stamp” on each ballot envelope where the voter signature is placed, indicating that the voter signature was in fact checked and verified with the signature on file with the State. Compl. ¶ 92.  Thus, contrary to Michigan’s argument, Thomas’ assertions do not rebut the testimony of Jessy Jacob, a decades-long City of Detroit employee stating that election workers were instructed not to compare signatures. Id. ¶ 94.  In fact, a poll challenger, Lisa Gage, testified in an affidavit that has not been submitted in any prior litigation, that not a single one of the several hundred to a thousand ballot envelopes she observed had a written statement or stamp indicating the voter signature had been verified at the TCF Center in accordance with MCL § 168.765a(6). Affidavit of Lisa Gage ¶ 17. (App. 165a).

D. Wisconsin’s critiques of the evidence are false.

Wisconsin argues that “Texas offers no proof of a single voter who cast a ballot in the general election who did not qualify for indefinite confinement status.”  Wisc. Br. 31. Under Wisconsin law, “indefinite confinement status” allows a voter to avoid Wisconsin’s statutory photo identification and signature verification requirements.  Compl. ¶¶ 115-17. The number of people claiming this special status exploded from fewer than 57,000 voters in 2016 to nearly 216,000 in 2020.  Compl. ¶ 122.  Wisconsin claims this increase was due to more people voting by mail in 2020.  Wisc. Br. 31.

Voting by mail, however, has nothing to do with being classified as “indefinitely confined.” Wisconsin offers no plausible justification for this nearly four-fold increase in voters claiming this special status. 

Wisconsin also ignores the fact that the Wisconsin Supreme Court found that clerks in Dane County and Milwaukee County had earlier violated Wisconsin law by issuing guidance stating that all voters should identify themselves as “indefinitely confined” on absentee ballot applications because of the COVID-19 pandemic.  Compl. ¶¶ 118-19.  Despite that order, the WEC again violated Wisconsin law and issued a directive to the Wisconsin clerks prohibiting removal of voters from the registry for indefinite-confinement status even if the voter is no longer “indefinitely confined,” thereby cementing this improper practice in the 2020 general election. Id. at ¶¶ 120-21.

Lastly, Wisconsin ignores the sworn testimony of Ethan J. Pease, a box truck delivery driver subcontracted to the U.S. Postal Service (“USPS”) to deliver truckloads of mail-in ballots to the sorting center in Madison, WI, who testified that USPS employees were backdating ballots received after November 3, 2020.  Compl. ¶127. (App. 149a-151a).

Further, Pease testified how a senior USPS employee told him on November 4, 2020 that “An order came down from the Wisconsin/Illinois Chapter of the Postal Service that 100,000 ballots” had been misplaced and described how the USPS dispatched employees to “find[] ... the ballots.” Id. (App. 150a).


The DNC and their Rino allies has been caught. They Know they have been caught.

Any rational person who looks at the evidence given knows shenanigans went down, and at a minimum every closely contested state should have had a complete forensic audit done of their election results.

If at this point you still think Biden won fair and square, you are willingly part of the lie.

You have updated his routine to fit the modern information age, but we know who's advice you are following:

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as Big tech and the Mainstream Media can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for Big tech and the Mainstream Media to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the Left.”
You believe that the only possibility is that just one side is being dishonest. You also believe that the only possibility is that it is Biden's side that is being dishonest.

I reject your first premise, which makes the second premise moot. I also reject your "Any rational person" bullshit, because rational people can and will disagree with your point.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 11, 2020, 01:19:52 PM
Fap fap fap

You are full of more shit than a Christmas turkey.

Your kink is not OK.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Jaeger on December 11, 2020, 02:00:04 PM
...
You believe that the only possibility is that just one side is being dishonest. You also believe that the only possibility is that it is Biden's side that is being dishonest.

I reject your first premise, which makes the second premise moot. I also reject your "Any rational person" bullshit, because rational people can and will disagree with your point.

Says the man who refuses to consider any evidence of fraud.

None of your arguments refute any evidence of fraud given, because you do not know enough about the evidence presented to give a  counterargument based on logic, reason, and factual information.

You rely solely on rhetorical and ad-hominin attacks, with baseless accusations that none of the evidence is real, Trump is lying, etc..

You are willingly supporting the lie.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 11, 2020, 02:04:18 PM
I also reject your "Any rational person" bullshit, because rational people can and will disagree with your point.

I agree.

Even rational people, like Sam Harris, can turn into demented drooling idiots on some issues. That doesn't mean that they can't be wrong in those issues, though, it just means that even rational people are susceptible to personal bias and dementia.

But they're still wrong. :P
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 11, 2020, 02:16:36 PM
Pointing out that these states own responses to the lawsuit shred the “but the poll books” defense.  A defense resting on the fact a system is in place, that only coordinated fraud could upend the system, and that it’s preposterous to believe the fraud necessary is possible, is a faith-based defense
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 11, 2020, 02:43:03 PM
Fap fap fap

You are full of more shit than a Christmas turkey.

Your kink is not OK.
Oh, poor jeffy. You haven't had enough attention lately, have you, dear?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 11, 2020, 02:44:51 PM
...
You believe that the only possibility is that just one side is being dishonest. You also believe that the only possibility is that it is Biden's side that is being dishonest.

I reject your first premise, which makes the second premise moot. I also reject your "Any rational person" bullshit, because rational people can and will disagree with your point.

Says the man who refuses to consider any evidence of fraud.

None of your arguments refute any evidence of fraud given, because you do not know enough about the evidence presented to give a  counterargument based on logic, reason, and factual information.

You rely solely on rhetorical and ad-hominin attacks, with baseless accusations that none of the evidence is real, Trump is lying, etc..

You are willingly supporting the lie.
Nice narrative you got there. Be a shame if something happened to it...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 11, 2020, 03:31:12 PM
Baby Shark

Do do dodo do do.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 11, 2020, 03:34:45 PM
That is the definition of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Its worse then that Visionstorm:  Trump owes money on his real estate!

Worst President Evar
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 11, 2020, 03:50:05 PM
They are terrified because they know what they did.

And they know that consequences will follow if they do not force Trump out.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22O155/163493/20201211095822921_TX-v-State-LeaveReply-2020-12-11.pdf

Texas doesn't hesitate to shoot right back at the assertions made by the four states about its claims.
Any rational person who looks at the evidence given knows shenanigans went down, and at a minimum every closely contested state should have had a complete forensic audit done of their election results.

OK, so there are a couple of claims that you quoted, all new to this forum discussion, at least. (1) Dr. Cicchetti's "one in a quadrillion" claim; (2) Wayne County Michigan 174,384 ballots; and (3) Georgia signature checks.

(1) Dr. Chichetti's claims are discussed in this Reason.com article (generally a libertarian outlet), which has a more detailed breakdown of his statements. I quote the conclusion below.

https://reason.com/volokh/2020/12/09/more-on-statistical-stupidity-at-scotus/

Quote
That, believe it or not, is it.  (A) If the 2020 voting population had precisely the same party preferences as the 2016 voting population, Biden could not possibly have won; and (B) if the mail-in and in-person voters had precisely the same party preferences, Biden could not possibly have won.

Wow! Man bites dog!!  Who would have believed it!!  If the 2020 voting population had the same Repub/Dem split as it had in 2016, Trump must have won!! If mail-in voters had the same preferences as in-person voters, Trump must have won!! And if my aunt had four wheels, she'd be a motorcar!!

Dr. Cicchetti, in other words, has falsified two hypotheses that nobody in his/her right mind could possibly have believed might actually be true. Garbage in, garbage out.

I would remind Dr. Cicchetti—and, more importantly, Texas AG Paxton—that we periodically conduct "elections" precisely because voter preferences may change over time, and some people who voted for the Democratic candidate in one election might choose the Republican in the next, or vice versa. Were this not the case, I suppose we'd still have a Federalist as Chief Executive.


(2) The claim about Wayne County Michigan seems to be based on taking all absent voter ballots and claiming that they are fraudulent. I don't know the source for their number of 174,384 -- but it exactly matches the number of mailed absent voter ballots in the Detroit count.

https://detroitmi.gov/sites/detroitmi.localhost/files/2020-11/November%202020%20Election%20Summary%20Report%20Signed%20Copy.pdf

It claims that all these ballots can't be matched to a registered voter, which may be technically true in the sense that a ballot received through the mail has less physical verification - only signature. But the demand is inconsistent, since the lawsuit isn't seeking to reject all absentee ballots in any other county. If these votes were fraudulent, then it would mean that Detroit had a turnout of only 16% of registered voters! Even including all the mailed ballots, at 50% Detroit had the *lowest* turnout compared to all the other Michigan counties.

(3) I don't have any information about the Georgia signature checking at this time. I'll check on that later.


I'd be interested in rational discussion of these points.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Jaeger on December 11, 2020, 04:01:50 PM
...
Nice narrative you got there. Be a shame if something happened to it...

In your review of the evidence presented, what leads you to believe that the people who signed the 1,000+ signed affidavits alleging election improprieties of all kinds are lying.


...

(3) I don't have any information about the Georgia signature checking at this time. I'll check on that later.
...

This is what Trump has continually asked for; An audit where they do signature matching to verify the ballots.

This is a straightforward way to verify whether the claims made in the lawsuit are true or not.

But the powers that be in Georgia have continually refused to do so.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 11, 2020, 04:03:37 PM
...
Nice narrative you got there. Be a shame if something happened to it...

In your review of the evidence presented, what leads you to believe that the people who signed the 1,000+ signed affidavits alleging election improprieties of all kinds are lying.
In other news I saw that Tulsi Gabbard has outed herself as transphobic after introducing a bill that supports the alt-right idea that biological males should not be able to compete in sports against biological females in women's sports. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 11, 2020, 05:49:16 PM
In your review of the evidence presented, what leads you to believe that the people who signed the 1,000+ signed affidavits alleging election improprieties of all kinds are lying.

I can't know for sure that they are lying - but conversely, I can't know for sure that they're telling the truth. The issue is - how credible are they compared to the officials they are testifying against? I've done a sampling of some of the most prominent witness claims.

1) Navid Keshavarz-Nia was presented as an expert witness, but he cites a non-existent county as one of his examples, which causes me to doubt his other examples.

2) Richard Hopkins has gone back and forth on his original testimony. When questioned by investigators, he weakened all his claims, then went back on his claims. He has not gone forward with a lawsuit as far as I know. Other postal workers showed evidence conflicting his claims,

3) From watching the testimony of Melissa Carone, her specific claims did not make sense - such as about the 120% turnout, zero registered voters, and poll books off by tens of thousands. Those claims don't match with the public record. The previous judge and the state representatives did not find her credible.

4) Thomas McInerny claimed that 5 special forces soldiers were killed in a raid on a CIA-run server farm in Germany. That claim is quite hard to believe, and has not been backed by anyone else in the military, which it presumably should be.


From my sampling based on who people in this thread have cited, I think there are reasons to doubt that they are all perfectly truthful. As for the others, I have seen reference to at most a few dozen affidavits, not 1000+, and almost all of them are making very different specific claims. None that I have seen have any corroboration -- other witnesses or physical evidence to back them up.


(3) I don't have any information about the Georgia signature checking at this time. I'll check on that later.
This is what Trump has continually asked for; An audit where they do signature matching to verify the ballots.

This is a straightforward way to verify whether the claims made in the lawsuit are true or not.

But the powers that be in Georgia have continually refused to do so.

That's proof that the Georgia Republicans are pissed at Trump, but not proof of guilt. After being subjected to a ton of allegations, harassment, and death threats (ref) (https://www.businessinsider.com/georgia-secretary-of-state-and-his-wife-receive-death-threats-2020-11), it seems to me that they are not feeling warm and friendly towards the people attacking them.

They have gone through two full recounts and answered a ton of questions and accusations both in court and in the media. The signatures were checked in the election twice (once for ballot request and once on the ballot itself) and the process examined.

If I were in their shoes, I'd be pretty damn pissed. Is it possible that they're lying and covering up? Sure, anything is possible. But their being pissed isn't evidence of that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 11, 2020, 05:55:11 PM
  It doesnt matter anymore.  The whole thing is going to burn unless the doddering fool who breaks his foot chasing his dog naked doesnt get us into a hot war with some small nation post haste after getting sworn in.  I would expect a syria sponsored terror attack sometime in late 2021.   Because they hate democracy and freedom of course. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 11, 2020, 06:14:32 PM
  It doesnt matter anymore.  The whole thing is going to burn unless the doddering fool who breaks his foot chasing his dog naked doesnt get us into a hot war with some small nation post haste after getting sworn in.  I would expect a syria sponsored terror attack sometime in late 2021.   Because they hate democracy and freedom of course.

And if he does not do when the CCP wants then his dog will come back and break the other foot.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 11, 2020, 06:16:43 PM
  It doesnt matter anymore.  The whole thing is going to burn unless the doddering fool who breaks his foot chasing his dog naked doesnt get us into a hot war with some small nation post haste after getting sworn in.  I would expect a syria sponsored terror attack sometime in late 2021.   Because they hate democracy and freedom of course.

And if he does not do when the CCP wants then his dog will come back and break the other foot.
  I think the CCP method involves a honey pot, not so much a leg breaker.  They always said get more flies with honey, and Shartwell is proving that out.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 11, 2020, 06:29:09 PM
Fap fap fap

You are full of more shit than a Christmas turkey.

Your kink is not OK.
Oh, poor jeffy. You haven't had enough attention lately, have you, dear?

Well, you are impervious to reason, so all that is left is mockery and insults.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 11, 2020, 06:33:17 PM
In any debate, the parties must agree on the standard of the debate.  What most people who think fraud occurred are doing is something akin to preponderance of the evidence.  And that isn't even a preponderance that fraud certainly occurred, but that the preponderance shows a forensic audit should occur that can more conclusively establish whether or not fraud occurred.

What Jhkim does is very much akin to:

(https://funkyimg.com/i/39id7.jpg)

And of course we all laugh at these crowder sketches, but we also all laugh because we know they won't be able to change crowder's mind; what is humorous is that they try and fail miserably.  The joke is literally that people would try to change crowder's mind with information he doesn't consider credible at a basic level. 

Just be aware that you are the person walking up to the table trying to change jhkim's mind. 

Unless those charged can't come up with some plausibly-sounding defense, or some assertion that they did in fact follow the laws, then nothing has to change jhkim's mind.  His standard for agreeing with you is not preponderance of whether there's something stinks here, it's something so open and shut no defense lawyer would think worth any amount of money to front a bullshit defense - or even a simple denial - over.   It would have to be something where the "defendant" said, OK, you got me.  I plead guilty and hope for mercy.

Nothing wrong with taking that stance.  Others should be aware they're walking up to Crowder's table, is all.

As for the DOD/CIA thing, I'm not a Q guy because I think "sit back and trust the plan" is a RINO wet dream.  There's nothing more they would like than for you to sit back and trust a supposed plan, right until the day after it was clear no one was doing what Q said was going to happen.  I suspect Q is all FUD spread by people not supporting Trump at all, aimed at making those who want it to be true complacent that some big thing will happen and all they have to do is...nothing.

But jhkim's assertion that if the DOD/CIA had a shooting incident, that this would be dutifully publicized is likewise ridiculous on its face.  I have no idea if that ever happened and don't expect to ever receive a "yes it did".  But there is some weird sudden undercurrents between the DOD/CIA

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pentagon-plans-cut-support-cias-counterterrorism-missions/story?id=74641591
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 11, 2020, 06:34:19 PM
  It doesnt matter anymore.  The whole thing is going to burn unless the doddering fool who breaks his foot chasing his dog naked doesnt get us into a hot war with some small nation post haste after getting sworn in.  I would expect a syria sponsored terror attack sometime in late 2021.   Because they hate democracy and freedom of course.

They apparently passed a new NDAA that limits the President's ability to end wars. The Republic officially no longer exists. We just didn't know it yet. The US belongs to special interests that will keep us in war forever and NO ONE can stop them.

I'm sure that this had nothing to do with Trump (a.k.a. "the Worst President in History™") trying to bring troops back home.

Welcome to the real Cyberpunk 2020 (OK, 2021 by this point, since the year is almost up).

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 11, 2020, 07:03:23 PM
REASON.COM, an interesting site full of half-truths, misinformation, and the KOCH BROS. are involved is being touted here??
Look at the trail ~
I Found this:
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Reason_Foundation
Which led me to this:
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=State_Policy_Network
Then to this:
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Atlas_Network
Which ends with this:
https://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed

What a chain of coincidence! Must be that either people here think it's a real libertarian site or perhaps they knew it was a front all along!

HAH! Nice try, but I'm not buying!

Quote
Welcome to the real Cyberpunk 2020 (OK, 2021 by this point, since the year is almost up).
If you mean broken and as of yet unpatched properly, then yes.  8)
If you mean Pondsmith's original, then no.  :(
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 11, 2020, 07:38:25 PM
INFO * INFO * INFO
=================================
No such thing as a CONSPIRACY. Nope. No evidence at ALL:
https://t.co/tICfVd52IK
https://t.co/D2joOh8ePj

If TEXAS' CASE is so credible, why aren't all the states joining them in it?...
https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/11/new-california-new-nevada-file-brief-texas-election-challenge-supreme-court/
An attorney claiming to represent “New California State” and “New Nevada State” filed a brief  in support of the Texas-led lawsuit seeking to invalidate the electoral votes of Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Georgia.
“New California State and New Nevada State are directly impacted by the arbitrary and capricious changes in election laws and procedures occurring (sic) with unfortunate regularity in the current States of California and Nevada,” the brief, filed by Attorney Robert E. Thomas, reads, making up two new sub-states.
“Part of the reason for the formation of New California State and New Nevada State is to stop the lawless actions of Governors Newsom (California) and Sisolak (Nevada). An opinion by this Court affirming a national, uniform rule of law re-establishing the supremacy of The Electors Clause of…the Constitution will resolve some of the complaints causing the establishment of these new States,” the brief continued.
The brief alleges that “in the existing States of California and Nevada” there is a violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, noting voters in both states received unsolicited mail-in ballots even though voters are supposed to request an absentee ballot.

...?
https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1337436698666471425
https://twitter.com/RoscoeBDavis1/status/1337455632593653762
Interesting read: https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22O155/163506/20201211114620451_Amicus%202020-12-11.pdf

Then there is THE LAW:
https://twitter.com/EliseStefanik/status/1337216800312979456
https://twitter.com/kenblackwell/status/1337064274116669441
https://twitter.com/SCOTUSblog/status/1337419549097025536

Here is an overview: https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-fd11ab2/media/8c4e4a4b1069e06befff2aa3531a634b.Eo4z6FfXUAYvRLM

Then there is the thing I have been warning everyone about:
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1337236430590857216

For those on the outside looking in:
CONCOMMS:
Quote
BIDEN/CHINA VERY IMPORTANT MARKER.
Who made it public?
Who really made it public?
Who is making it all public?
WE ARE THE GATEKEEPERS OF ALL [BY ALL WE MEAN ALL] INFORMATION.
U1>CAN>EU>RUSSIA>IRAN>NK>SYRIA>PAK>>>
IRAN NEXT.
$700B – MILITARY [THIS YEAR].
WHY IS THE MILITARY SO IMPORTANT?
RE_READ ALL.
NATIONAL SECURITY.
NATIONAL SECURITY.
These people are STUPID.
Art of the Deal.
TIDAL WAVE INCOMING.
BUCKLE UP.

---

WWG1WGA
WH clean SIG.
Marker.
Everything is planned.
Years.
Message.
UNITY.
AWAKENING.
We Fight.
Lexington.
Concord.
STAY TOGETHER.

---

First indictment [unseal] will trigger mass pop awakening.
First arrest will verify action and confirm future direction.
They will fight but you are ready.
Marker [9].
https://twitter.com/politico/status/1337422440377540608

What is all this??
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-providing-closing-executive-departments-agencies-federal-government-december-24-2020/
George Washington’s crossing of the Delaware River, which occurred on the night of December 25–26, 1776, during the American Revolutionary War, was the first move in a surprise attack organized by George Washington against Hessian forces (German auxiliaries in the service of the British) in Trenton, New Jersey, on the morning of December 26. Planned in partial secrecy, Washington led a column of Continental Army troops across the icy Delaware River in a logistically challenging and dangerous operation.

fnord.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 11, 2020, 07:41:22 PM
It's not a lottery. There isn't a 1:X chance that your vote was the one that put them over the top. Elections, like market transactions, happen on the margin. Prices are determined by what the next person is willing to pay, and elections are decided by the last X people who decided to vote for the candidate of True Evil instead of the candidate of Absolute Evil.

Very close to a lottery; some day the final certified result of an election will differ by one vote, and then everyone who voted for that candidate is a winner! If the count is not so close, then they are all joint winners, that's all. ;D

Quote
You could say that you have a 1:X share of the victory, but that's purely symbolic. It's wearing your team colors, or being one voice cheering in the crowd, or one set of arms in a wave that circles the stadium. It's more a ritual dance than anything else. You didn't make it happen, and it will happen if you're not there. But it's a way of asserting you're part of the community.

I don't think encouraging more people to vote adds any value. Democracies need a certain level of voter engagement to function, but there's a point of diminishing returns, and it's not particularly high.

A fully participatory democracy would be a lot more valuable, but that requires far more investment than just voting once every couple of years. In ancient Athens, people who could vote were expected to engage in staggering amounts of public service -- their juries alone had 200 to 1,500 members! The iconic New England townhall was similar. But we've lost that level of personal and collective responsibility. Instead people vote, or tweet, or send prayers, or upvote something, and think they've done their duty to make the world better.

I'm not trying to persuade you that any of these reasons that someone would value voting are correct; only that other people can find value in voting for various reasons. Your nihilism would have nobody vote if you were more persuasive; then the one person who does vote decides everything, and there is a sudden run on voting until we reach enough turnout for your argument to get traction again. So nobody voting when elections exist is not a stable equilibrium.

There are a lot of things in our society that depend on common belief; e.g., paper money has value because enough people believe it has value. Elections and voting may be a similar thing; and their value persists despite low turnouts (or nobody would spend billions of dollars to possibly influence the outcome).

You still haven't said if you vote. I'm not looking for a chance to accuse you of hypocrisy; I'm really just curious.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 11, 2020, 07:43:26 PM
SCOTUS just denied the kraken lmao
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 11, 2020, 07:48:05 PM
  LOL...right wing terrorists?  You mean the anarchy guys with 3 FBI agents among their ranks?  Are you really falling for that one?  Right wing terrorists DO NOT KIDNAP people.

While right-wing terrorists more often just kill people (and while the Michigan case suggests that they are not very good at planning anything like a kidnapping), the arrested men were decidedly right-wing, however desperately you want to disown them. So your statement is false.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 11, 2020, 07:55:29 PM
SCOTUS just denied the kraken lmao

Alito and Thomas would have granted the motion to file a bill of complaint (because they don't think the Supreme Court has discretion to deny such a motion) but they would not "grant other relief" which sounds almost the same; the other seven, including the Trump appointees, dismiss for lack of standing ("Texas has not demonstrated a judicially cognizable interest in the manner in which another State conducts its elections.").

So, Texas AG will probably not get a federal pardon.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 11, 2020, 08:32:46 PM
  LOL...right wing terrorists?  You mean the anarchy guys with 3 FBI agents among their ranks?  Are you really falling for that one?  Right wing terrorists DO NOT KIDNAP people.

While right-wing terrorists more often just kill people (and while the Michigan case suggests that they are not very good at planning anything like a kidnapping), the arrested men were decidedly right-wing, however desperately you want to disown them. So your statement is false.

actually that LARPer group in Michigan were anarchists, neither right nor left...I mean what sort of right wing militia group doesn't even read Breitbart.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 11, 2020, 08:41:54 PM
Fap fap fap

You are full of more shit than a Christmas turkey.

Your kink is not OK.

Oh, poor jeffy. You haven't had enough attention lately, have you, dear?

Well, you are impervious to reason, so all that is left is mockery and insults.
You see, jeffy, I'm impervious to the nonsense you and so many others here peddle, yes. And when the mockery comes from a buttnugget like you, well, that means nothing to me, just as you don't.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 11, 2020, 08:43:18 PM
SCOTUS just denied the kraken lmao
OMG, I'm shocked. No, not shocked. What's the workd that means the complete opposite? Cuz I'm that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 11, 2020, 08:45:30 PM
  LOL...right wing terrorists?  You mean the anarchy guys with 3 FBI agents among their ranks?  Are you really falling for that one?  Right wing terrorists DO NOT KIDNAP people.

While right-wing terrorists more often just kill people (and while the Michigan case suggests that they are not very good at planning anything like a kidnapping), the arrested men were decidedly right-wing, however desperately you want to disown them. So your statement is false.

actually that LARPer group in Michigan were anarchists, neither right nor left...I mean what sort of right wing militia group doesn't even read Breitbart.

It was the best that the FBI could come up with at short notice.  Give them a break, it is hard to operate in a China Wuhan Virus world.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 11, 2020, 09:10:03 PM
I'm not trying to persuade you that any of these reasons that someone would value voting are correct; only that other people can find value in voting for various reasons. Your nihilism would have nobody vote if you were more persuasive; then the one person who does vote decides everything, and there is a sudden run on voting until we reach enough turnout for your argument to get traction again. So nobody voting when elections exist is not a stable equilibrium.

There are a lot of things in our society that depend on common belief; e.g., paper money has value because enough people believe it has value. Elections and voting may be a similar thing; and their value persists despite low turnouts (or nobody would spend billions of dollars to possibly influence the outcome).

You still haven't said if you vote. I'm not looking for a chance to accuse you of hypocrisy; I'm really just curious.
There's nothing nihilistic about what I said. That you interpreted that way says a lot about you, and nothing about me. I went out of my way to explain why voting is essential to a democracy, and even had an aside where I lauded the virtues of a fully participatory democracy. All I did was point out a simple truth: Your individual vote doesn't matter. It won't affect any state or national election. And even if we assume your vote will make a difference, the personal reward isn't worth the effort. Because casting an informed vote requires a fair amount of attention and research, and the return to an individual if one candidates wins as opposed to another, tends to be very small and hard to predict.

That's why, as I noted, democracies develop various social structures to encourage people to vote. Team membership is a big one, both party loyalty and patriotism in general. The concept of civic duty is another factor. Even turning elections into the circuses they've become serves that aim. But those are fundamentally emotional appeals, and like other belief systems they often have fictional dogmas, including "every vote matters!" Which, if we want to analyze them, we should recognize as being false.

I've voted in every election since I became old enough to vote, except for one. (Emergency travel and living in a state with onerous absentee ballot provisions that made it impossible to qualify.)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on December 11, 2020, 09:38:32 PM
Could someone please change Elfdart's diaper?! He shat himself, again!

You have a weird obsession with other people's bowels, but if one were to compile a list of reasons why you're a total fucktard, this fixation of yours on human feces wouldn't break the top ten.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on December 11, 2020, 09:47:56 PM
SCOTUS just denied the kraken lmao

WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-campaign-loses-wisconsin-election-lawsuit-11607713668)


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 11, 2020, 11:31:14 PM
Even if SCOTUS would have ruled in Texas favor, the globalist GOP as currently constituted would have voted Biden in "for the good of the country".  They've been signaling for the past few days that enough would peel off support (it would only take a couple of state delegations to swing it to Biden in the House) .  Maybe an outside shot they'd do Pence as a compromise.  But Trump was not going to win a 2nd term by any method written out ahead of time.

This is what I meant about clarity.  If anything, I think its unfortunate that SCOTUS didn't make the GOP vote Biden in. 

As I said before, it all comes down to whether or not Trump wants to cross the line.  There's never been a moment in my lifetime like this, where people are so willing to follow a leader willing to cross it.  My gut is Trump is not willing to do it.  We'll see.  But someone will be willing to do it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 11, 2020, 11:33:42 PM
Fap fap fap

You are full of more shit than a Christmas turkey.

Your kink is not OK.

Oh, poor jeffy. You haven't had enough attention lately, have you, dear?

Well, you are impervious to reason, so all that is left is mockery and insults.
You see, jeffy, I'm impervious to the nonsense you and so many others here peddle, yes. And when the mockery comes from a buttnugget like you, well, that means nothing to me, just as you don't.

Dance monkey! Dance!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 11, 2020, 11:36:00 PM
Could someone please change Elfdart's diaper?! He shat himself, again!

You have a weird obsession with other people's bowels, but if one were to compile a list of reasons why you're a total fucktard, this fixation of yours on human feces wouldn't break the top ten.

Oh, please, type it up! You are exceptional at shitting out nonsense to laugh at, so it would be a hoot!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 12, 2020, 01:00:33 AM
actually that LARPer group in Michigan were anarchists, neither right nor left...I mean what sort of right wing militia group doesn't even read Breitbart.

As always: on the team until never on the team. "Should you or any of your militia be caught or killed, the right wing will disavow any knowledge of your actions." Since you are convinced only the right wing have guns, the fact that they had guns alone should suffice. Militia membership, participation in right wing protests, confederate flags, targeting all Democrats and some Republicans (doubtless RINOs), boogaloo movement, Proud Boys, right wing heroes - the connections go on and on. That some details are inconsistent just shows they aren't very smart; John Stuart Mill could explain why that might be.

(If, like Pat, you only support right wing objectives while claiming to be something else, why would you care if violent and stupid criminals are identified as right wing?)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 12, 2020, 01:09:56 AM
There's nothing nihilistic about what I said. That you interpreted that way says a lot about you, and nothing about me.

The foundational element of a democracy (representative or direct) is voting, and you insist anyone's vote counts for nothing. That's nihilism. Your rhetorical style of "I know you are but what am I" would be impressive in third grade; for those of us who aren't in third grade it's just tiresome and stupid.

Quote
All I did was point out a simple truth: Your individual vote doesn't matter. It won't affect any state or national election. And even if we assume your vote will make a difference, the personal reward isn't worth the effort.

This is why people form factions, be they political parties or identity groups. Old folks vote reliably, so Social Security is the third rail, and so the elderly reap benefits, protecting Social Security, from their collective voting.

Quote
I've voted in every election since I became old enough to vote, except for one. (Emergency travel and living in a state with onerous absentee ballot provisions that made it impossible to qualify.)

You apparently find your voting if not your vote to be worthwhile. I too have voted, even when I've been unhappy with all the choices presented (or had no meaningful choices). But often, as with President-elect Biden, I can find something to be genuinely happy about.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 12, 2020, 01:32:13 AM
Electors vote on Monday. So, what's the miracle plan now?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 12, 2020, 02:15:49 AM
Sit in amusement for the next few days watching the Bush GOP make all the mistakes soy men typically make - thinking they will recapture loyalty to their faction through insulting Trump’s supporters and telling them this is for their own good.

My hope, if Trump as I expect doesn’t push this to unusual means, is that he ignores protocol and dumps enough dirt to absolutely burn the GOP establishment that pumped the brakes on him in every non-public way it could.

But spilling all the tea with declass the gov doesn’t support would be the miracle.  Bush Republicans gloating themselves into a corner requires only playing to type. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 12, 2020, 05:29:46 AM
There's nothing nihilistic about what I said. That you interpreted that way says a lot about you, and nothing about me.

The foundational element of a democracy (representative or direct) is voting, and you insist anyone's vote counts for nothing. That's nihilism. Your rhetorical style of "I know you are but what am I" would be impressive in third grade; for those of us who aren't in third grade it's just tiresome and stupid.
I've repeatedly said voting is essential to democracy, but individual votes don't matter. Failure to understand that simple distinction is an intellectual failure on your part; and repeatedly denying what I said, and now resorting to insults, is just you being dishonest.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Larsdangly on December 12, 2020, 10:40:14 AM
I'm enjoying all the disillusioned and borderline-psychotic blather of the various closet neo-Nazi's here who gonna die mad over Trump's loss. They remind me of this article:

https://thehardtimes.net/culture/libertarian-wins-debate-imaginary-girlfriend/?fbclid=IwAR2z80xyD8iWyia35N7gJDi3K3PkeI2QW5SMd-IspylA2xSUo98X-4k6y1Q

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 12, 2020, 10:52:31 AM
I'm enjoying all the disillusioned and borderline-psychotic blather of the various closet neo-Nazi's here who gonna die mad over Trump's loss. They remind me of this article:

https://thehardtimes.net/culture/libertarian-wins-debate-imaginary-girlfriend/?fbclid=IwAR2z80xyD8iWyia35N7gJDi3K3PkeI2QW5SMd-IspylA2xSUo98X-4k6y1Q

Do your friends know you hobnob with neo-Nazis online?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 12, 2020, 11:07:33 AM
Sit in amusement for the next few days watching the Bush GOP make all the mistakes soy men typically make - thinking they will recapture loyalty to their faction through insulting Trump’s supporters and telling them this is for their own good.

My hope, if Trump as I expect doesn’t push this to unusual means, is that he ignores protocol and dumps enough dirt to absolutely burn the GOP establishment that pumped the brakes on him in every non-public way it could.

But spilling all the tea with declass the gov doesn’t support would be the miracle.  Bush Republicans gloating themselves into a corner requires only playing to type.

So, if I read that right, you're saying Trump will leave the Presidency, and your hope is he burns down the parts of the GOP who do not support him on the way out?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 12, 2020, 12:25:24 PM
Sit in amusement for the next few days watching the Bush GOP make all the mistakes soy men typically make - thinking they will recapture loyalty to their faction through insulting Trump’s supporters and telling them this is for their own good.

My hope, if Trump as I expect doesn’t push this to unusual means, is that he ignores protocol and dumps enough dirt to absolutely burn the GOP establishment that pumped the brakes on him in every non-public way it could.

But spilling all the tea with declass the gov doesn’t support would be the miracle.  Bush Republicans gloating themselves into a corner requires only playing to type.

So, if I read that right, you're saying Trump will leave the Presidency, and your hope is he burns down the parts of the GOP who do not support him on the way out?
You can see a real lack of maturity in many of those that continue to support Trump's idiotic post-election antics. These are the people that adamantly claim to see something of substance in the Emperor's New Claims when those in their right minds (which includes the heavily conservative Supreme Court) keep saying there's nothing there. For some reason, they just can't get enough of those orange circus peanuts dangling over their faces.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 12, 2020, 12:37:46 PM
Sit in amusement for the next few days watching the Bush GOP make all the mistakes soy men typically make - thinking they will recapture loyalty to their faction through insulting Trump’s supporters and telling them this is for their own good.

My hope, if Trump as I expect doesn’t push this to unusual means, is that he ignores protocol and dumps enough dirt to absolutely burn the GOP establishment that pumped the brakes on him in every non-public way it could.

But spilling all the tea with declass the gov doesn’t support would be the miracle.  Bush Republicans gloating themselves into a corner requires only playing to type.

So, if I read that right, you're saying Trump will leave the Presidency, and your hope is he burns down the parts of the GOP who do not support him on the way out?
You can see a real lack of maturity

That's fucking rich coming from a guy whose response to things he found distasteful on a message board was to become an admitted petulant troll himself.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 12, 2020, 01:42:50 PM
I've repeatedly said voting is essential to democracy, but individual votes don't matter. Failure to understand that simple distinction is an intellectual failure on your part; and repeatedly denying what I said, and now resorting to insults, is just you being dishonest.

You started with and have more often said that anyone's vote doesn't matter, period. With no qualification. Your trolling amounts to stubbornly moving the goal posts an inch at a time. You'd get insulted less if you would state your positions plainly and honestly up front. And you've deserved every insult I've directed at you. Take a long look in the mirror, if your high-wattage projection doesn't blind you.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 12, 2020, 01:58:29 PM
Sit in amusement for the next few days watching the Bush GOP make all the mistakes soy men typically make - thinking they will recapture loyalty to their faction through insulting Trump’s supporters and telling them this is for their own good.

My hope, if Trump as I expect doesn’t push this to unusual means, is that he ignores protocol and dumps enough dirt to absolutely burn the GOP establishment that pumped the brakes on him in every non-public way it could.

But spilling all the tea with declass the gov doesn’t support would be the miracle.  Bush Republicans gloating themselves into a corner requires only playing to type.

So, if I read that right, you're saying Trump will leave the Presidency, and your hope is he burns down the parts of the GOP who do not support him on the way out?

burning the people who false-fronted as allies to him is indirect to further clarifying to the american people the degree to which their government actively disregards their will and interests.  It is the clarity that I want.  I also would be satisfied with what it would do to the copperheads who depend upon the mistaken good will given to them by voters they don't respect.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 12, 2020, 01:59:22 PM
I've repeatedly said voting is essential to democracy, but individual votes don't matter. Failure to understand that simple distinction is an intellectual failure on your part; and repeatedly denying what I said, and now resorting to insults, is just you being dishonest.

You started with and have more often said that anyone's vote doesn't matter, period. With no qualification. Your trolling amounts to stubbornly moving the goal posts an inch at a time. You'd get insulted less if you would state your positions plainly and honestly up front. And you've deserved every insult I've directed at you. Take a long look in the mirror, if your high-wattage projection doesn't blind you.
I stated that your vote doesn't matter, because it doesn't. I never changed that statement, or qualified it. I made different statements, that supported and rounded out what I believe.

Reading things that aren't there into what other people say, and then resorting to insults and personal attacks when they point out they never said it, is what makes you a Jeff.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 12, 2020, 02:04:29 PM
Yes by all means fracture a Republican party that hasn't won the popular vote in decades what possibly could go wrong lmao

My sides
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 12, 2020, 02:23:58 PM
The concept of addition by subtraction may seem fantastical to some, but yes.  Mistwell is correct that the GOP he likes have directed the agenda for 40 years out of a 170 year-old party.  All that achieves is ensuring the previous agenda never has a political champion - and it is an agenda people wish enacted.  There are many voters who do not vote GOP because they rightly despise the GOP of the last 40 years. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 12, 2020, 02:42:30 PM
Yes by all means fracture a Republican party that hasn't won the popular vote in decades what possibly could go wrong lmao

My sides

To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 12, 2020, 02:56:05 PM
  LOL...right wing terrorists?  You mean the anarchy guys with 3 FBI agents among their ranks?  Are you really falling for that one?  Right wing terrorists DO NOT KIDNAP people.

While right-wing terrorists more often just kill people (and while the Michigan case suggests that they are not very good at planning anything like a kidnapping), the arrested men were decidedly right-wing, however desperately you want to disown them. So your statement is false.

   I can not own them.  I would have to be right wing, and since I do not even at this point know what in the world is a centrist stance about anything I have no idea what I am.  I guess with the neck jarring shifts the country is trying to make to the left on some things I am far right on them at this point?  I just know some feds, I know some actual right wing screw heads.  That was a 'sting' the feds cooked up and recruited for, not something they infiltrated.  Hardline right wing groups do not get infiltrated.  At least not the couple I know of.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 12, 2020, 03:00:17 PM
Yes by all means fracture a Republican party that hasn't won the popular vote in decades what possibly could go wrong lmao

My sides

To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.

The problem is that Democrat voters know that the Democraptic party is war mongering corporatist garbage, but they still vote for it, even if they hate its guts and know that the Democraptic party is NEVER (absofuckinglutely EVER) going to do ANYTHING for them, and is just going to fuel to war machine indefinitely. But the Republicans wised up and won't vote for any Republicant other than Trump. Which is why we're headed for Democraptic control of everything, along with endless wars, corporate censorship, and smug hypocritical, corporatist warmonger supporting pieces of shit in social media--who cheer for big corporations screwing over people they don't like--calling everyone else "right-wing" (which means "evil despicable human being" in current year speak).

Even the big, supposedly "progressive" Democraps, like AOC sold out and are now playing defense for the establishment. But ordinary people drooling imbeciles who still buy it all up, along with her $60 shirts.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Catulle on December 12, 2020, 03:41:32 PM
Hardline right wing groups do not get infiltrated.  At least not the couple I know of.

Fricking *Atomwaffen* is a leaky boat. Nazis are, as they say, messy bitches.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 12, 2020, 03:56:21 PM
Looks like Sydney Powell's "Military Intelligence Expert" wasn't.

https://www.businessinsider.com/sidney-powells-secret-source-spider-is-actually-an-it-consultant-2020-12

You might say her case is... Kraken up.

Thank you, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your server.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on December 12, 2020, 04:41:02 PM
burning the people who false-fronted as allies to him is indirect to further clarifying to the american people the degree to which their government actively disregards their will and interests.  It is the clarity that I want.  I also would be satisfied with what it would do to the copperheads who depend upon the mistaken good will given to them by voters they don't respect.

Trump absolutely should burn it all down -- every level, both sides of the aisle.  I'm almost as tired about the fucking "principled conservatives" as I am of the "progressives."  My buddy actually had the fucking gall to tell me he thinks Biden is better than Trump because he's also Catholic and wouldn't shift his position even when pointed out that Biden has voted for babies that survive abortion to be killed.  But you know Trump said a mean thing in a tweet once.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on December 12, 2020, 04:48:35 PM
Trump absolutely should burn it all down -- every level, both sides of the aisle.  I'm almost as tired about the fucking "principled conservatives" as I am of the "progressives."  My buddy actually had the fucking gall to tell me he thinks Biden is better than Trump because he's also Catholic and wouldn't shift his position even when pointed out that Biden has voted for babies that survive abortion to be killed.  But you know Trump said a mean thing in a tweet once.

That is a fake Christian right there.  No way will a true believer of Christ will be okay with abortion much less infanticide.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 12, 2020, 05:09:33 PM
   I can not own them.  I would have to be right wing, and since I do not even at this point know what in the world is a centrist stance about anything I have no idea what I am.  I guess with the neck jarring shifts the country is trying to make to the left on some things I am far right on them at this point?
There's still a significant moderate middle, it's just the people on the left and the right no longer believe it exists. So you if say anything critical to anyone on the left, you're called an extreme right wing lunatic. And if you say anything critical to anyone on the right, you're labeled an extreme progressive whackjob. If you correct them, and state what you actually believe, they'll say you're lying, and they know you don't believe what you believe. This also applies if you don't easily fit on the left-right axis at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 12, 2020, 05:33:39 PM
The problem with a moderate middle isn't what they believe, it's if they believe in something other than being in the middle.  If the culture moves hard in one particular direction, who used to be moderate should swing to being not-moderate any longer if their beliefs are grounded in a particular ground others are moving away from; i.e., the belief is stable.  If moderation is simply finding wherever the current zeitgeist is and trying to split the loaf between them - I'm not sure that's moderation as a virtue.  That's a manipulatable faction, because all a power group has to do is identify how much farther they need to present from where the middle will try to split the loaf, in order to achieve any particular thing.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 12, 2020, 05:38:40 PM
Yes by all means fracture a Republican party that hasn't won the popular vote in decades what possibly could go wrong lmao

My sides

To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.

Both parties have indulged in pandering to various interest groups and only playing lip service to the vast middle class whom they claim to represent.
I'll happily munch popcorn and watch them both burn for it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 12, 2020, 06:52:12 PM
I stated that your vote doesn't matter, because it doesn't. I never changed that statement, or qualified it. I made different statements, that supported and rounded out what I believe.

How many posts did you state that "your vote doesn't matter" with no qualification or indication that you had any belief that voting was nevertheless important?

The problem for you is that I'm not reading things that aren't there but that you later pretend were.

Not expressing yourself well is what makes you a Pat.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 12, 2020, 06:53:41 PM

To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.

81 million people said otherwise not that long ago.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 12, 2020, 06:58:26 PM

To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.

81 million people said otherwise not that long ago.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/leaked-recording-biden-says-gop-used-defund-police-beat-living-n1250757

Cracks are already forming, and Biden hasn't even been elected yet.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 12, 2020, 07:07:29 PM
Sit in amusement for the next few days watching the Bush GOP make all the mistakes soy men typically make - thinking they will recapture loyalty to their faction through insulting Trump’s supporters and telling them this is for their own good.

My hope, if Trump as I expect doesn’t push this to unusual means, is that he ignores protocol and dumps enough dirt to absolutely burn the GOP establishment that pumped the brakes on him in every non-public way it could.

But spilling all the tea with declass the gov doesn’t support would be the miracle.  Bush Republicans gloating themselves into a corner requires only playing to type.

So, if I read that right, you're saying Trump will leave the Presidency, and your hope is he burns down the parts of the GOP who do not support him on the way out?

burning the people who false-fronted as allies to him is indirect to further clarifying to the american people the degree to which their government actively disregards their will and interests.  It is the clarity that I want.  I also would be satisfied with what it would do to the copperheads who depend upon the mistaken good will given to them by voters they don't respect.

Would you be satisfied with the clarity provided if we went more towards a parliamentary system where there were 4 political parties rather than two? You could call them whatever but I will  toss out Conservative, Republican, Democratic, and Progressive, with Trump-supporters being in one of Conservative or Republican (take your pick) and Neo-cons being in the other?

The concept of addition by subtraction may seem fantastical to some, but yes.  Mistwell is correct that the GOP he likes have directed the agenda for 40 years out of a 170 year-old party.  All that achieves is ensuring the previous agenda never has a political champion - and it is an agenda people wish enacted.  There are many voters who do not vote GOP because they rightly despise the GOP of the last 40 years.

I think that's perfectly fair, and I prefer the clarity of understanding your position more than I want you to agree with me. I agree there are two different groups within the overarching title of Republican or GOP right now. I think the same for the Democratic party, as they are struggling greatly with the Chuck Schumer/Nancy Pelosi wing vs the AOCs of their party.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 12, 2020, 07:11:15 PM

To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.

81 million people said otherwise not that long ago.

Are you seriously counting 100% of the people who supposedly voted for Biden after 4 YEARS of Russia conspiracy theories and non-stop propaganda telling everyone how Trump was Orange Hitler planted by Putin (Red Scare AND Godwin's law), along with UNPRESENDENT levels of mail-in voting, as people voting FOR the Democraptic Party as opposed to voting AGAINST Trump (just this time around--assuming that many people really did vote), and pretending those are all hardline Democraptic voters 100% OK with the party?

I don't really follow WTF happens in these part of the forum that much, except for the past few days, but is that really the level disingenuous bullshit you throw around?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 12, 2020, 07:24:44 PM
   I can not own them.  I would have to be right wing, and since I do not even at this point know what in the world is a centrist stance about anything I have no idea what I am.  I guess with the neck jarring shifts the country is trying to make to the left on some things I am far right on them at this point?
There's still a significant moderate middle, it's just the people on the left and the right no longer believe it exists. So you if say anything critical to anyone on the left, you're called an extreme right wing lunatic. And if you say anything critical to anyone on the right, you're labeled an extreme progressive whackjob. If you correct them, and state what you actually believe, they'll say you're lying, and they know you don't believe what you believe. This also applies if you don't easily fit on the left-right axis at all.

I agree wholeheartedly.

You can use this place as one example. I am considered a leftist here. However, most places I post, I am considered right wing. I've been called a Nazi-supporter for voting for a Republican state legislator or Congressperson. In fact right now I am being called that on a sports message board which has a political thread. And yet here I am called a cuck commie SJW supporter for voting for Biden.

There is no nuance on the Internet. The world is black and white, and you're either part of the tribe or the enemy tribe.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 12, 2020, 07:27:18 PM

To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.

81 million people said otherwise not that long ago.

More people voted for Republicans in State legislator positions and Congress, while simultaneously voting for Biden. So no, they didn't. What actually happened is a lot more nuanced than that. Progressives had a pretty bad election really (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/11/2020-election-results-biden-won-democrats-senate-loss.html).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 12, 2020, 08:18:22 PM
Sit in amusement for the next few days watching the Bush GOP make all the mistakes soy men typically make - thinking they will recapture loyalty to their faction through insulting Trump’s supporters and telling them this is for their own good.

My hope, if Trump as I expect doesn’t push this to unusual means, is that he ignores protocol and dumps enough dirt to absolutely burn the GOP establishment that pumped the brakes on him in every non-public way it could.

But spilling all the tea with declass the gov doesn’t support would be the miracle.  Bush Republicans gloating themselves into a corner requires only playing to type.

So, if I read that right, you're saying Trump will leave the Presidency, and your hope is he burns down the parts of the GOP who do not support him on the way out?
You can see a real lack of maturity

That's fucking rich coming from a guy whose response to things he found distasteful on a message board was to become an admitted petulant troll himself.
I adapted to my environment. I think just about everyone is here to troll. Less so on the gaming part of the site, but here it's all about staying in character, right? Kayfabe for all.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 12, 2020, 08:31:15 PM
Greetings!

Here is a video of marches in Washington, DC. Also includes interviews with poll watchers, poll challengers, and other witnesses to election fraud and corruption.

Interesting stuff!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 12, 2020, 09:16:10 PM
There is no nuance on the Internet. The world is black and white, and you're either part of the tribe or the enemy tribe.

It's not restricted to the internet anymore. I don't think it ever was.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 12, 2020, 09:26:05 PM
To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.

81 million people said otherwise not that long ago.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/leaked-recording-biden-says-gop-used-defund-police-beat-living-n1250757

Cracks are already forming, and Biden hasn't even been elected yet.

That Biden says Republicans used dishonest framing to beat Democrats is a crack in the Democratic party? LOL.

Are you seriously counting 100% of the people who supposedly voted for Biden after 4 YEARS of Russia conspiracy theories and non-stop propaganda telling everyone how Trump was Orange Hitler planted by Putin (Red Scare AND Godwin's law), along with UNPRESENDENT levels of mail-in voting, as people voting FOR the Democraptic Party as opposed to voting AGAINST Trump (just this time around--assuming that many people really did vote), and pretending those are all hardline Democraptic voters 100% OK with the party?

I don't really follow WTF happens in these part of the forum that much, except for the past few days, but is that really the level disingenuous bullshit you throw around?

For a decade, the GOP has depended on voter suppression and gerrymandering. And the GOP is already tearing itself apart over Trumpism - the ambitious hope to inherit Trump's mantle, Trump will be badmouthing the disloyal, the GOP members of Congress fear the most Trump loyal voters turning on them or the crazies killing them, and the Republicans can't settle on a message about whether Georgia elections are fair.
Quote
When The New York Times asked Kim Ward, the Republican leader in the Pennsylvania Senate, whether she would have signed a letter declaring there was fraud in the state’s election, she replied, “If I would say to you, ‘I don’t want to do it,’” referring to signing the letter, “I’d get my house bombed tonight.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/republican-party-abandoning-democracy/617359/

Call me when somebody actually finds voting fraud of any significance. They arrested two Republicans for voting fraud in Pennsylvania, but they still can't seem to find one dead voter or credible expert anywhere. The Biden campaign has slain so many Krakens that it's reached 20th level.

More people voted for Republicans in State legislator positions and Congress, while simultaneously voting for Biden. So no, they didn't. What actually happened is a lot more nuanced than that. Progressives had a pretty bad election really (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/11/2020-election-results-biden-won-democrats-senate-loss.html).

I'll grant you that since you are one of the few here not endlessly claiming fraud. Democrats lost House seats but still control it, and the Senate is a long shot. State legislatures have a lot of gerrymandering (the blue wall states all have Republican legislatures but Democratic statewide offices) and the incumbency benefit is large (except for Trump).

I wouldn't count all of the Trump voters as Republicans either; experience in the last few elections has shown that Trump draws out voters for him specifically, but not in an election he's not in.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 12, 2020, 09:34:41 PM
You can see a real lack of maturity in many of those that continue to support Trump's idiotic post-election antics. These are the people that adamantly claim to see something of substance in the Emperor's New Claims when those in their right minds (which includes the heavily conservative Supreme Court) keep saying there's nothing there. For some reason, they just can't get enough of those orange circus peanuts dangling over their faces.

Did the Supreme Court say there's nothing there?  Do you have a quote from them saying that?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 12, 2020, 09:39:29 PM
Yes by all means fracture a Republican party that hasn't won the popular vote in decades what possibly could go wrong lmao

The main problem with being a Republican that I have observed is that as soon as you die you swap to voting Democrat.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 12, 2020, 09:47:07 PM
To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.

81 million people said otherwise not that long ago.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/leaked-recording-biden-says-gop-used-defund-police-beat-living-n1250757

Cracks are already forming, and Biden hasn't even been elected yet.

That Biden says Republicans used dishonest framing to beat Democrats is a crack in the Democratic party? LOL.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. LOL.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 12, 2020, 10:33:24 PM
Are you seriously counting 100% of the people who supposedly voted for Biden after 4 YEARS of Russia conspiracy theories and non-stop propaganda telling everyone how Trump was Orange Hitler planted by Putin (Red Scare AND Godwin's law), along with UNPRESENDENT levels of mail-in voting, as people voting FOR the Democraptic Party as opposed to voting AGAINST Trump (just this time around--assuming that many people really did vote), and pretending those are all hardline Democraptic voters 100% OK with the party?

I don't really follow WTF happens in these part of the forum that much, except for the past few days, but is that really the level disingenuous bullshit you throw around?

For a decade, the GOP has depended on voter suppression and gerrymandering. And the GOP is already tearing itself apart over Trumpism - the ambitious hope to inherit Trump's mantle, Trump will be badmouthing the disloyal, the GOP members of Congress fear the most Trump loyal voters turning on them or the crazies killing them, and the Republicans can't settle on a message about whether Georgia elections are fair.

WTF does this even have to do with anything that I said? You also seem to be under the misapprehension that I give a shit about the longevity of the Republicant party. My only regret is that it looks like the Democraptic party seems to be on its way to outlive the Republicants now that they appear to have swindled their subservient voter base into voting the only Republican president that kinda sorta did anything of note in my lifetime out of office.

The Democraps have depended on treating minorities like their lapdogs to get elected for my entire lifetime, and to be glad about it. And this is a look at how they treat them, as well as into the character of the piece of shit garbage like you voted into office. I'm surprised he didn't tell these people to call him "massah" on their way out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCzxR-vo9nA
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 12, 2020, 10:50:41 PM
You can see a real lack of maturity in many of those that continue to support Trump's idiotic post-election antics. These are the people that adamantly claim to see something of substance in the Emperor's New Claims when those in their right minds (which includes the heavily conservative Supreme Court) keep saying there's nothing there. For some reason, they just can't get enough of those orange circus peanuts dangling over their faces.

Did the Supreme Court say there's nothing there?  Do you have a quote from them saying that?


Yeah, saying your case is so weak it doesn't even rise to the level where they think it could conceivably be worth listening to it, that's a pretty clear declaration there is nothing there. Which is what 7 of the 9 justices said.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 13, 2020, 12:03:52 AM
Hardline right wing groups do not get infiltrated.  At least not the couple I know of.

Fricking *Atomwaffen* is a leaky boat. Nazis are, as they say, messy bitches.
  No idea who they are.  I only know of one that is hard line right wing.  They do not get infiltrated.   A couple of the others, myabe.  I think if you hear a whole lot about them on the internet, they are that hard line, and they are infiltrated.  aka stormfront nazi posting about meetings on the interwebs.  Maybe the one I feel has not been infiltrated has been, but when you engage in a bunch of norse pagan rituals, and demand hand to hand combat from all the people coming to the meetings (yes, like fight club) it makes it tough for a fed to slide in.   But those crazy bastards are not looking to build an army.  More like a motorcycle gang, and 1 percent gangs do not get infiltrated too often, legit ones never get infiltrated.  But these dudes are the real right wing crazy people leftists see at every turn.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: oggsmash on December 13, 2020, 12:08:00 AM
   I can not own them.  I would have to be right wing, and since I do not even at this point know what in the world is a centrist stance about anything I have no idea what I am.  I guess with the neck jarring shifts the country is trying to make to the left on some things I am far right on them at this point?
There's still a significant moderate middle, it's just the people on the left and the right no longer believe it exists. So you if say anything critical to anyone on the left, you're called an extreme right wing lunatic. And if you say anything critical to anyone on the right, you're labeled an extreme progressive whackjob. If you correct them, and state what you actually believe, they'll say you're lying, and they know you don't believe what you believe. This also applies if you don't easily fit on the left-right axis at all.

  Oh I know they exist, I was referring to the rhetoric that gets tossed around about positions that were centrist or even leftish 20 years ago, and now are considered right wing, or hard right.  Most of the population lives most of their lives most of the time in the middle. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 13, 2020, 12:49:28 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCzxR-vo9nA

Honeymoon's over.   ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 13, 2020, 01:21:36 AM
THE PARTY OF PEACE AND PROGRESS purposefully misspells words to deflect from the REAL AGENDA:
https://twitter.com/tracybeanz/status/1337860197461667840
https://twitter.com/TomFitton/status/1337750599769665538

THE ANSWER:
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1337779444933558277
https://www.globalresearch.ca/rex-84-fema-s-blueprint-for-martial-law-in-america/3010
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/02/29/trump-and-jade-helm-ii-trainloads-of-shackles-shipped-in-as-20-million-hillbillies-to-enter-walmart-basement-death-camps/

Remember, I warned you all!

fnord.
===============================

You can see a real lack of maturity in many of those that continue to support Trump's idiotic post-election antics. These are the people that adamantly claim to see something of substance in the Emperor's New Claims when those in their right minds (which includes the heavily conservative Supreme Court) keep saying there's nothing there. For some reason, they just can't get enough of those orange circus peanuts dangling over their faces.

Did the Supreme Court say there's nothing there?  Do you have a quote from them saying that?


Yeah, saying your case is so weak it doesn't even rise to the level where they think it could conceivably be worth listening to it, that's a pretty clear declaration there is nothing there. Which is what 7 of the 9 justices said.
Wrong. The SCOTUS stated Texas did not have standing to a suit against other states in which Texas has no say in HOW those states conduct their election. Texas can STILL refile. They did NOT say what you claim. You are a liar and are acting AGAINST your own self interests here (see above). Listen to what a LAWYER states: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXgz0rjt7-g

=====================

Also, here is a breakdown of the FINAL DECISION on the Flynn Case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIaabsZ9H-8

=====================
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 13, 2020, 01:40:38 AM
How many posts did you state that "your vote doesn't matter" with no qualification or indication that you had any belief that voting was nevertheless important?

The problem for you is that I'm not reading things that aren't there but that you later pretend were.

Not expressing yourself well is what makes you a Pat.
No, the problem is you're another Jeff. You keep on insisting on reading things into my posts that aren't there.

I said "your vote doesn't matter". Your vote. The vote of an individual. That's a specific claim, and I justified that by explaining how the chance is effectively zero that your vote will flip an election. In other words, my specific claim was followed by a logical argument that justified my specific position.

I never said votes don't matter, collectively. That's something very different. I never said that voting isn't healthy for a democracy as a whole. Also different. And the argument I made in support of my position, i.e. that your vote won't flip an election, has no bearing on whether voting, in the collective, is a good or a bad thing. So the ancillary evidence supports what I said, not what you said I said, as well.

Incorrectly interpreting someone else's post, like you did, is fairly easy to do. After all, if you skim something quickly, spot something you superficially disagree with, and immediately react, it's easy to miss the nuance. You can miss the precise way they they phrased that particular statement, and fail to fully absorb the rest of what they said, so you don't see how their claim and supporting arguments gel into a coherent position. It's lazy reading, but it's easy to do.

I'm used to being called right wing by left wingers, and left wing by ring wingers. It's been happening my entire adult life, and even back into my adolescence. When there are two popular positions, and you hold one of them, it's easy to assume that someone who disagrees with one of your positions belongs to the other wing of thought.

The difference is I used to be able to just say "no, that's not what I said" or "no, that's not what I believe", clarify my position, and people would believe me. People sometimes were incredulous that I held a position that doesn't easily fit into that bipartite orthodoxy, but they'd accept I probably know more about what I believe than they do, and they'd come to accept it. It sometimes made them curious and they asked questions, they sometimes argued against my beliefs, and they sometimes (most commonly) dismissed my beliefs as not worthy of consideration. But they wouldn't deny that I believed what I said I believed.

That's a new phenomenon. You, Jeff, and others have started to insist that I really believe X, not Y, even if what I said contradicts X, and fully supports Y. From my perspective, it's the bizarrest thing. Because to make that claim, not only do you have to miss what I really said in the first place, but you have to reject my clarification. And since we're talking about what I believe, that's not just an attempt to refute my arguments. You're literally telling me I don't believe what I say I believe. It's the strangest thing, when someone like you sets themselves up as the expert on my mind.

It's never based on extensive knowledge of me, after all. You're not my family, a close friend, or even something like a psychoanalyst who has conducted a deep dive into all that makes me me. Instead, you're basing your conclusions on a few sentences. Usually just one narrow statement. For instance, I started looking into the financing of BLM, and corrected your Jeff persona's claim that the money from ShareBlue was being funneled into the Biden campaign. It was a false claim, because ShareBlue simply isn't set up that way. It's more like a payment processor than a general fund that can distribute money at will. But based solely on that objection, your tubesock Jeffwa decided that I was defending BLM, and therefore I was a Biden supporter. Which is completely absurd. I was digging into where the money went because I'm not a fan of BLM. (I also did not fill in the oval next to Biden/Harris on my ballot this year, not that it's any of your business.)

You did exactly the same thing in this thread, Rawmeff. I said that the mainstream media produces a lot of misleading or just plain false news. Based almost entirely on one that one narrow statement, you decided I was right wing, and imputed I supported Trump. And you kept insisting on that, even when I corrected you. (I'm sure you'll tell me otherwise, but I didn't fill in the oval next to Trump/Pence on my ballot either.)

But it didn't matter what I really believed. No matter what I said, you keep insisting you know my mind, and that I don't. That even though I didn't say it, and nothing else I said supports it, I believe what you say I believe, not what I really believe. It's surreal.

And it's not just restricted to political orientation. You're doing it now, on voting. And to be fair, it's not just you and Rawma, Jeff. It's becoming widespread. I blame polarization, and the internet. People have hardened their positions in a grand war of X vs. Y, and so are blind to the rest of the alphabet. And since it's become a total war, it's easier to shoot first and ask questions never.

The internet also encourages skimming, bouncing from one thing to next, and quickly jumping to conclusions. People seem to have lost the ability to bury themselves in a book, blocking out the rest of the world to become absorbed a story, or someone else's worldview. Instead, they've become hyper-critical, reading everything with the aim of objecting. So the first time they see something that, on first blush, seems at odd with what they believe, they react. Since it's about the war and immediate reflexive attacks, not truly grokking what's being said, they rely on dogwhistles nee litmus tests, stereotypes cum strawmen, and blast away with a hair trigger against imagined enemies.

tl;dr people have lost the ability to read posts like this
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 13, 2020, 02:36:16 AM
You can see a real lack of maturity in many of those that continue to support Trump's idiotic post-election antics. These are the people that adamantly claim to see something of substance in the Emperor's New Claims when those in their right minds (which includes the heavily conservative Supreme Court) keep saying there's nothing there. For some reason, they just can't get enough of those orange circus peanuts dangling over their faces.

Did the Supreme Court say there's nothing there?  Do you have a quote from them saying that?


Yeah, saying your case is so weak it doesn't even rise to the level where they think it could conceivably be worth listening to it, that's a pretty clear declaration there is nothing there. Which is what 7 of the 9 justices said.
Wrong. The SCOTUS stated Texas did not have standing to a suit against other states in which Texas has no say in HOW those states conduct their election. Texas can STILL refile. They did NOT say what you claim. You are a liar and are acting AGAINST your own self interests here (see above). Listen to what a LAWYER states: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXgz0rjt7-g

I always thought that Mistwell was supposed to be a Lawyer in real life?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 13, 2020, 02:41:01 AM
tl;dr people have lost the ability to read posts like this

Normally I would say just another poster suffering from Pat Derangement Syndrome.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 13, 2020, 04:46:34 AM
How many posts did you state that "your vote doesn't matter" with no qualification or indication that you had any belief that voting was nevertheless important?

The problem for you is that I'm not reading things that aren't there but that you later pretend were.

Not expressing yourself well is what makes you a Pat.
No, the problem is you're another Jeff. You keep on insisting on reading things into my posts that aren't there.

I said "your vote doesn't matter". Your vote. The vote of an individual. That's a specific claim, and I justified that by explaining how the chance is effectively zero that your vote will flip an election. In other words, my specific claim was followed by a logical argument that justified my specific position.

I never said votes don't matter, collectively. That's something very different. I never said that voting isn't healthy for a democracy as a whole. Also different. And the argument I made in support of my position, i.e. that your vote won't flip an election, has no bearing on whether voting, in the collective, is a good or a bad thing. So the ancillary evidence supports what I said, not what you said I said, as well.

Incorrectly interpreting someone else's post, like you did, is fairly easy to do. After all, if you skim something quickly, spot something you superficially disagree with, and immediately react, it's easy to miss the nuance. You can miss the precise way they they phrased that particular statement, and fail to fully absorb the rest of what they said, so you don't see how their claim and supporting arguments gel into a coherent position. It's lazy reading, but it's easy to do.

I'm used to being called right wing by left wingers, and left wing by ring wingers. It's been happening my entire adult life, and even back into my adolescence. When there are two popular positions, and you hold one of them, it's easy to assume that someone who disagrees with one of your positions belongs to the other wing of thought.

The difference is I used to be able to just say "no, that's not what I said" or "no, that's not what I believe", clarify my position, and people would believe me. People sometimes were incredulous that I held a position that doesn't easily fit into that bipartite orthodoxy, but they'd accept I probably know more about what I believe than they do, and they'd come to accept it. It sometimes made them curious and they asked questions, they sometimes argued against my beliefs, and they sometimes (most commonly) dismissed my beliefs as not worthy of consideration. But they wouldn't deny that I believed what I said I believed.

That's a new phenomenon. You, Jeff, and others have started to insist that I really believe X, not Y, even if what I said contradicts X, and fully supports Y. From my perspective, it's the bizarrest thing. Because to make that claim, not only do you have to miss what I really said in the first place, but you have to reject my clarification. And since we're talking about what I believe, that's not just an attempt to refute my arguments. You're literally telling me I don't believe what I say I believe. It's the strangest thing, when someone like you sets themselves up as the expert on my mind.

It's never based on extensive knowledge of me, after all. You're not my family, a close friend, or even something like a psychoanalyst who has conducted a deep dive into all that makes me me. Instead, you're basing your conclusions on a few sentences. Usually just one narrow statement. For instance, I started looking into the financing of BLM, and corrected your Jeff persona's claim that the money from ShareBlue was being funneled into the Biden campaign. It was a false claim, because ShareBlue simply isn't set up that way. It's more like a payment processor than a general fund that can distribute money at will. But based solely on that objection, your tubesock Jeffwa decided that I was defending BLM, and therefore I was a Biden supporter. Which is completely absurd. I was digging into where the money went because I'm not a fan of BLM. (I also did not fill in the oval next to Biden/Harris on my ballot this year, not that it's any of your business.)

You did exactly the same thing in this thread, Rawmeff. I said that the mainstream media produces a lot of misleading or just plain false news. Based almost entirely on one that one narrow statement, you decided I was right wing, and imputed I supported Trump. And you kept insisting on that, even when I corrected you. (I'm sure you'll tell me otherwise, but I didn't fill in the oval next to Trump/Pence on my ballot either.)

But it didn't matter what I really believed. No matter what I said, you keep insisting you know my mind, and that I don't. That even though I didn't say it, and nothing else I said supports it, I believe what you say I believe, not what I really believe. It's surreal.

And it's not just restricted to political orientation. You're doing it now, on voting. And to be fair, it's not just you and Rawma, Jeff. It's becoming widespread. I blame polarization, and the internet. People have hardened their positions in a grand war of X vs. Y, and so are blind to the rest of the alphabet. And since it's become a total war, it's easier to shoot first and ask questions never.

The internet also encourages skimming, bouncing from one thing to next, and quickly jumping to conclusions. People seem to have lost the ability to bury themselves in a book, blocking out the rest of the world to become absorbed a story, or someone else's worldview. Instead, they've become hyper-critical, reading everything with the aim of objecting. So the first time they see something that, on first blush, seems at odd with what they believe, they react. Since it's about the war and immediate reflexive attacks, not truly grokking what's being said, they rely on dogwhistles nee litmus tests, stereotypes cum strawmen, and blast away with a hair trigger against imagined enemies.

tl;dr people have lost the ability to read posts like this

Greetings!

Excellent commentary, Pat. I agree that people often seem to like arguing against some image in their heads rather than actually discussing what someone actually said--or means--and in this case, you in particular.

I interpreted your earlier commentary as what is the word--a dichotomy, or paradox? The one where two statements are seemingly contradictory, while being true at the same time?--I know on some level that an individual vote doesn't matter--but collectively, voting matters, is valuable, and in some circumstances can be decisive. *Shrugs* I think I understood you correctly.

On another note, somewhat related--I think some people often like to get *pedantic*. While it can be important to read what someone specifically says--in my view, a deeper and more fulfilling exercise is understanding what a person *means*--which is not always a precise map to what they happened to have said. If that makes any sense.

None the less, though, your assessment about how many people engage in interweb arguments is accurate. I see that often, and even sometimes correcting friends of mine that *didn't* read something fully, but instead skimmed, and then embraced a conclusion. Their conclusions often miss nuance and a greater comprehension of what was said in whatever article.

I think it is always important to actually listen to what the other person is saying. Too often, people arguing on the interwebs don't do that, unfortunately.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 13, 2020, 09:52:14 AM
Did the Supreme Court say there's nothing there?  Do you have a quote from them saying that?

Burden of proof is on those who say there is something there; they've failed. You're approaching Ron "show me the evidence that there's no evidence" Johnson level of cluelessness.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 13, 2020, 10:17:53 AM

To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.

81 million people said otherwise not that long ago.

Even European news have caught on to have fractured the Democratic Party is, and you’re denying it?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 13, 2020, 11:15:34 AM
Did the Supreme Court say there's nothing there?  Do you have a quote from them saying that?

Burden of proof is on those who say there is something there

Such as people claiming that the courts specifically said there's nothing there, when back in the real world courts can dismiss a case for any number of reasons (ranging from judge bias to improper presentation of the claims), not necessarily because there's nothing there.


To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.

81 million people said otherwise not that long ago.

Even European news have caught on to have fractured the Democratic Party is, and you’re denying it?

This is what you get when you deal with disingenuous people who argue strictly on the basis of gotchas and tribalism, rather than the merits of what's being discussed.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 13, 2020, 11:56:15 AM
Did the Supreme Court say there's nothing there?  Do you have a quote from them saying that?

Burden of proof is on those who say there is something there

Such as people claiming that the courts specifically said there's nothing there, when back in the real world courts can dismiss a case for any number of reasons (ranging from judge bias to improper presentation of the claims), not necessarily because there's nothing there.


To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.

81 million people said otherwise not that long ago.

Even European news have caught on to have fractured the Democratic Party is, and you’re denying it?

This is what you get when you deal with disingenuous people who argue strictly on the basis of gotchas and tribalism, rather than the merits of what's being discussed.
I'm the real world, none of Trump's post-election bullshit has accomplished anything in courts that will change the election's outcome. That's the only fact that matters.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 13, 2020, 12:54:46 PM

To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.

81 million people said otherwise not that long ago.

Even European news have caught on to have fractured the Democratic Party is, and you’re denying it?

Trump allies are attacking other Republicans over the election nonsense, but it's the Democratic party that is fractured? Believe harder, people, Tinkerbell is still dead.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 13, 2020, 01:02:49 PM
Did the Supreme Court say there's nothing there?  Do you have a quote from them saying that?

Burden of proof is on those who say there is something there

Such as people claiming that the courts specifically said there's nothing there, when back in the real world courts can dismiss a case for any number of reasons (ranging from judge bias to improper presentation of the claims), not necessarily because there's nothing there.

Coincidentally, I was just reading this:
https://reason.com/volokh/2020/12/13/another-court-loss-for-trump-campaign-in-wisconsin/
Quote
On Saturday, a federal district court judge in Wisconsin issued an opinion explaining why, on the merits, Texas's substantive arguments were without merit. And, as occurred on the Supreme Court, a judge appointed by President Trump, Brett Ludwig, ruled against him.

...

Dozens of election suits have been filed, and dozens of judges of all political stripes and judicial philosophies have ruled against the claims put forward by the Trump campaign and its allies.

Dismissing a case is saying there's nothing there. What do you think the courts should have found?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 13, 2020, 01:03:06 PM
Did the Supreme Court say there's nothing there?  Do you have a quote from them saying that?

Burden of proof is on those who say there is something there

Such as people claiming that the courts specifically said there's nothing there, when back in the real world courts can dismiss a case for any number of reasons (ranging from judge bias to improper presentation of the claims), not necessarily because there's nothing there.


To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.

81 million people said otherwise not that long ago.

Even European news have caught on to have fractured the Democratic Party is, and you’re denying it?

This is what you get when you deal with disingenuous people who argue strictly on the basis of gotchas and tribalism, rather than the merits of what's being discussed.
I'm the real world, none of Trump's post-election bullshit has accomplished anything in courts that will change the election's outcome. That's the only fact that matters.

In the real world none of that addresses or refutes what I said.


To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.

81 million people said otherwise not that long ago.

Even European news have caught on to have fractured the Democratic Party is, and you’re denying it?

Trump allies are attacking other Republicans over the election nonsense, but it's the Democratic party that is fractured? Believe harder, people, Tinkerbell is still dead.

And the Democraps were attacking their "progressive" wing (which has been trying to coopt the party for years now) over losing house seats. But keep being a disingenuous shitbag tossing gotchas.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 13, 2020, 01:05:52 PM
Trump allies are attacking other Republicans over the election nonsense, but it's the Democratic party that is fractured? Believe harder, people, Tinkerbell is still dead.

Trump allies =/= Republicans...why do you think he won in 2016?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 13, 2020, 02:26:57 PM

To be fair, fracturing has been going on in the Democratic party for some time too. Some might say even more than the Republicans.

81 million people said otherwise not that long ago.

Even European news have caught on to have fractured the Democratic Party is, and you’re denying it?

Trump allies are attacking other Republicans over the election nonsense, but it's the Democratic party that is fractured? Believe harder, people, Tinkerbell is still dead.

So Republicans are divided, therefore Democrats can’t be. Got it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on December 13, 2020, 02:29:50 PM
Trump allies =/= Republicans...why do you think he won in 2016?
Voter suppression, Russian propaganda, and a large minority in this country who are really pissed off at their perceived lack of success in life.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 13, 2020, 02:33:14 PM
Trump allies are attacking other Republicans over the election nonsense, but it's the Democratic party that is fractured? Believe harder, people, Tinkerbell is still dead.

Trump allies =/= Republicans...why do you think he won in 2016?

Trump allies within the Republican party are attacking other Republicans.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/nov/10/republicans-attack-republicans-georgia-hoping-keep/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/05/republicans-condemn-trump-after-baseless-claim-election-fraud/6182613002/
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-attacks-republicans-while-attending-000656882.html
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 13, 2020, 02:34:25 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/05/us/house-democrats-election-losses.html


Quote
But by Thursday, one of the incumbents Democrats had spent heavily to defend, Representative Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, who was defeated Tuesday night as President Trump won a resounding victory in her Miami-area district, broke into tears as she spoke out to her soon-to-be former colleagues about internal divides in the party.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 13, 2020, 02:45:35 PM
Did the Supreme Court say there's nothing there?  Do you have a quote from them saying that?

Burden of proof is on those who say there is something there; they've failed. You're approaching Ron "show me the evidence that there's no evidence" Johnson level of cluelessness.

So you have the quote that Happydaze is talking about where the Supreme Court says there's nothing there?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 13, 2020, 02:48:19 PM

In the real world none of that addresses or refutes what I said.

I don't have to care that you are unwilling to understand.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 13, 2020, 02:51:31 PM
Did the Supreme Court say there's nothing there?  Do you have a quote from them saying that?

Burden of proof is on those who say there is something there; they've failed. You're approaching Ron "show me the evidence that there's no evidence" Johnson level of cluelessness.

So you have the quote that Happydaze is talking about where the Supreme Court says there's nothing there?
If I had a quote, I would have put it in quotes, you stupid motherfucker. Instead, I summarized the effective statement of the court and put that in italics for emphasis. You do know how that works, right?

If others want to keep looking at the Emperor's New Claims and saying there is something of substance there, they need to accept that most of the world is going to mock them for their foolishness.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 13, 2020, 03:06:13 PM
So Republicans are divided, therefore Democrats can’t be. Got it.

Rather, the disagreement within the Democratic party does not rise to the level of "fracturing", much as you want to misrepresent what I said and move the goalposts. Any healthy party will have differences of opinion among its members, and that they came together to elect Joe Biden indicates that they worked out a compromise. The Republican party has deep fractures between those who want to move on from Trump and those who don't; some, like Justin Amash, will be purged from the ranks.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/05/us/house-democrats-election-losses.html


Quote
But by Thursday, one of the incumbents Democrats had spent heavily to defend, Representative Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, who was defeated Tuesday night as President Trump won a resounding victory in her Miami-area district, broke into tears as she spoke out to her soon-to-be former colleagues about internal divides in the party.

I was unable to find the part where some Democrat fears that her house will be bombed if she doesn't go along with other Democrats. Because you're stupid and dishonest, I will again provide the link about that happening to a Republican:
Quote
When The New York Times asked Kim Ward, the Republican leader in the Pennsylvania Senate, whether she would have signed a letter declaring there was fraud in the state’s election, she replied, “If I would say to you, ‘I don’t want to do it,’” referring to signing the letter, “I’d get my house bombed tonight.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/republican-party-abandoning-democracy/617359/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 13, 2020, 03:19:38 PM
Trump allies =/= Republicans...why do you think he won in 2016?
Voter suppression, Russian propaganda, and a large minority in this country who are really pissed off at their perceived lack of success in life.

I would add the Comey announcement, which was judged sufficient to swing the election (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/). it was so corrupt that Barr, willing to stoop to almost anything in service to Donald Trump, wouldn't do that with the Hunter Biden investigation (probably more out of keen awareness that nobody in the Trump administration had any credibility with anyone not already voting for Trump).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 13, 2020, 03:21:49 PM
Dance, monkies! Dance!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 13, 2020, 03:30:13 PM
If I had a quote, I would have put it in quotes, you stupid motherfucker. Instead, I summarized the effective statement of the court and put that in italics for emphasis. You do know how that works, right?

If others want to keep looking at the Emperor's New Claims and saying there is something of substance there, they need to accept that most of the world is going to mock them for their foolishness.

The problem is that your summary was full of shit.

Stupid motherfucker indeed.

Here is the quote for you so you wont have to make up a brilliant brain fart next time:

Quote
The State of Texas’s motion for leave to file a bill of complaint is denied for lack of standing under Article III of the Constitution. Texas has not demonstrated a judicially cognizable interest in the manner in which another State conducts its elections. All other pending motions are dismissed as moot.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 13, 2020, 03:45:10 PM
If I had a quote, I would have put it in quotes, you stupid motherfucker. Instead, I summarized the effective statement of the court and put that in italics for emphasis. You do know how that works, right?

If others want to keep looking at the Emperor's New Claims and saying there is something of substance there, they need to accept that most of the world is going to mock them for their foolishness.

The problem is that your summary was full of shit.

Stupid motherfucker indeed.

Here is the quote for you so you wont have to make up a brilliant brain fart next time:

Quote
The State of Texas’s motion for leave to file a bill of complaint is denied for lack of standing under Article III of the Constitution. Texas has not demonstrated a judicially cognizable interest in the manner in which another State conducts its elections. All other pending motions are dismissed as moot.
Shasarak, you fool, no standing, everything else is moot is effectively the same as nothing to see here for just about every layman's needs. But go on praising the Emperor's New Claims as having substance when it has been ruled to be nothing at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 13, 2020, 03:47:36 PM
Jesus, just one sentence and you still can not understand.

You dont have to play act being a moron all of the time.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 13, 2020, 03:57:12 PM
Jesus, just one sentence and you still can not understand.

You dont have to play act being a moron all of the time.
You obviously fail to understand my understanding.

Or, as jeffy would say, dance monkey, dance.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 13, 2020, 03:59:26 PM
So Republicans are divided, therefore Democrats can’t be. Got it.

Rather, the disagreement within the Democratic party does not rise to the level of "fracturing", much as you want to misrepresent what I said and move the goalposts. Any healthy party will have differences of opinion among its members, and that they came together to elect Joe Biden indicates that they worked out a compromise. The Republican party has deep fractures between those who want to move on from Trump and those who don't; some, like Justin Amash, will be purged from the ranks.

Funny how someone failing to address some greater degree of nuance that wasn't present in your post when you dismissed them the first time around is somehow they moving the goalposts, as opposed to you doing it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/05/us/house-democrats-election-losses.html


Quote
But by Thursday, one of the incumbents Democrats had spent heavily to defend, Representative Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, who was defeated Tuesday night as President Trump won a resounding victory in her Miami-area district, broke into tears as she spoke out to her soon-to-be former colleagues about internal divides in the party.

I was unable to find the part where some Democrat fears that her house will be bombed if she doesn't go along with other Democrats. Because you're stupid and dishonest, I will again provide the link about that happening to a Republican:
Quote
When The New York Times asked Kim Ward, the Republican leader in the Pennsylvania Senate, whether she would have signed a letter declaring there was fraud in the state’s election, she replied, “If I would say to you, ‘I don’t want to do it,’” referring to signing the letter, “I’d get my house bombed tonight.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/republican-party-abandoning-democracy/617359/

Ah, more gotchas!

Yes, because it's usually Trump supporters bombing people's houses (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9027071/Moment-man-throws-explosive-Trump-supporters-Michigan-home.html). Therefore a Republican Senator's unfounded fears that a Trump supporter would bomb her house* is a valid clapback to bring into this discussion.

*something that has never actually happened and the only alleged Trump supporter to ever be involved in a mail bombing scheme sent them only to Democrats, one CIA guy and CNN, and the devices didn't even have a trigger mechanism, so they never exploded. So there's zero precedent, as far as I know, to believe a Republican senator would be targeted by Trump supporters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2018_United_States_mail_bombing_attempts

Quote
All sixteen confirmed bombs sent were improvised explosive devices,[11] though none had a trigger mechanism.[12] None of the devices exploded outside a controlled setting.[13]
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 13, 2020, 04:10:16 PM
So Republicans are divided, therefore Democrats can’t be. Got it.

Rather, the disagreement within the Democratic party does not rise to the level of "fracturing", much as you want to misrepresent what I said and move the goalposts. Any healthy party will have differences of opinion among its members, and that they came together to elect Joe Biden indicates that they worked out a compromise. The Republican party has deep fractures between those who want to move on from Trump and those who don't; some, like Justin Amash, will be purged from the ranks.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/05/us/house-democrats-election-losses.html


Quote
But by Thursday, one of the incumbents Democrats had spent heavily to defend, Representative Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, who was defeated Tuesday night as President Trump won a resounding victory in her Miami-area district, broke into tears as she spoke out to her soon-to-be former colleagues about internal divides in the party.

I was unable to find the part where some Democrat fears that her house will be bombed if she doesn't go along with other Democrats. Because you're stupid and dishonest, I will again provide the link about that happening to a Republican:
Quote
When The New York Times asked Kim Ward, the Republican leader in the Pennsylvania Senate, whether she would have signed a letter declaring there was fraud in the state’s election, she replied, “If I would say to you, ‘I don’t want to do it,’” referring to signing the letter, “I’d get my house bombed tonight.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/republican-party-abandoning-democracy/617359/

So we’re both citing a source oriented to the left (NYT seems to be the original source). And I use it to find problems on the left and you use it to find problems on the right. Maaaybe we should expect the source to be a bit biased towards a more harsh view of the right here? As mentioned the divisions have been noted in foreign papers as well (and they tend to know which way the sources lean). Anyway, none of what you say actually goes counter to the notion that there is a pretty deep division on the left.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on December 13, 2020, 04:24:48 PM
I would add the Comey announcement, which was judged sufficient to swing the election (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/). it was so corrupt that Barr, willing to stoop to almost anything in service to Donald Trump, wouldn't do that with the Hunter Biden investigation (probably more out of keen awareness that nobody in the Trump administration had any credibility with anyone not already voting for Trump).
Yes, that too.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 13, 2020, 04:29:09 PM
THE PARTY OF PEACE AND PROGRESS purposefully misspells words to deflect from the REAL AGENDA:
https://twitter.com/tracybeanz/status/1337860197461667840
https://twitter.com/TomFitton/status/1337750599769665538

THE ANSWER:
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1337779444933558277
https://www.globalresearch.ca/rex-84-fema-s-blueprint-for-martial-law-in-america/3010
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/02/29/trump-and-jade-helm-ii-trainloads-of-shackles-shipped-in-as-20-million-hillbillies-to-enter-walmart-basement-death-camps/

Remember, I warned you all!

fnord.
===============================

You can see a real lack of maturity in many of those that continue to support Trump's idiotic post-election antics. These are the people that adamantly claim to see something of substance in the Emperor's New Claims when those in their right minds (which includes the heavily conservative Supreme Court) keep saying there's nothing there. For some reason, they just can't get enough of those orange circus peanuts dangling over their faces.

Did the Supreme Court say there's nothing there?  Do you have a quote from them saying that?


Yeah, saying your case is so weak it doesn't even rise to the level where they think it could conceivably be worth listening to it, that's a pretty clear declaration there is nothing there. Which is what 7 of the 9 justices said.
Wrong. The SCOTUS stated Texas did not have standing to a suit against other states in which Texas has no say in HOW those states conduct their election. Texas can STILL refile. They did NOT say what you claim. You are a liar and are acting AGAINST your own self interests here (see above). Listen to what a LAWYER states: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXgz0rjt7-g

=====================

Also, here is a breakdown of the FINAL DECISION on the Flynn Case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIaabsZ9H-8

=====================

Yeah, I am saying that YouTube lawyer is full of shit. Texas will not refile. The case is done. They were told only two members of the Court would even consider it. Anyone who has read a lot of Supreme Court cases knows that's what the members of the Court just signaled.

But yeah, you go ahead and call me a liar because my opinion (which is an educated one) differs from yours.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 13, 2020, 05:12:49 PM
I would add the Comey announcement, which was judged sufficient to swing the election (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/). it was so corrupt that Barr, willing to stoop to almost anything in service to Donald Trump, wouldn't do that with the Hunter Biden investigation (probably more out of keen awareness that nobody in the Trump administration had any credibility with anyone not already voting for Trump).
Yes, that too.

Has anyone mentioned Hilary Clinton yet?

Biggest factor in my mind.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 13, 2020, 05:32:13 PM
I would add the Comey announcement, which was judged sufficient to swing the election (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/). it was so corrupt that Barr, willing to stoop to almost anything in service to Donald Trump, wouldn't do that with the Hunter Biden investigation (probably more out of keen awareness that nobody in the Trump administration had any credibility with anyone not already voting for Trump).
Yes, that too.

Has anyone mentioned Hilary Clinton yet?

Biggest factor in my mind.

Why mention one of the real reasons Trump actually got elected when you can bring up conspiracy theories, fever dreams and projections, and pretend they're the real reason?

PS: Did you know that Trump got the nomination in part cuz Hillary's campaign got the media to prop him up under the drastically mistaken believe she could beat him (which was one of the revelations in the Wikileaks that led to the Russia, Russia conspiracy nonsense, cuz apparently Wikileaks = RUSSIA!)?

the-more-you-know.mp4
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 13, 2020, 05:36:57 PM
I would add the Comey announcement, which was judged sufficient to swing the election (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/). it was so corrupt that Barr, willing to stoop to almost anything in service to Donald Trump, wouldn't do that with the Hunter Biden investigation (probably more out of keen awareness that nobody in the Trump administration had any credibility with anyone not already voting for Trump).
Yes, that too.

Has anyone mentioned Hilary Clinton yet?

Biggest factor in my mind.

Why mention one of the real reasons Trump actually got elected when you can bring up conspiracy theories, fever dreams and projections, and pretend they're the real reason?

PS: Did you know that Trump got the nomination in part cuz Hillary's campaign got the media to prop him up under the drastically mistaken believe she could beat him (which was one of the revelations in the Wikileaks that led to the Russia, Russia conspiracy nonsense, cuz apparently Wikileaks = RUSSIA!)?

the-more-you-know.mp4

It was especially surprising considering that the Democrats already had the (apparently) most popular Presidential candidate in USian history ready to go.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 13, 2020, 05:43:08 PM
I would add the Comey announcement, which was judged sufficient to swing the election (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/). it was so corrupt that Barr, willing to stoop to almost anything in service to Donald Trump, wouldn't do that with the Hunter Biden investigation (probably more out of keen awareness that nobody in the Trump administration had any credibility with anyone not already voting for Trump).
Yes, that too.

Has anyone mentioned Hilary Clinton yet?

Biggest factor in my mind.

Why mention one of the real reasons Trump actually got elected when you can bring up conspiracy theories, fever dreams and projections, and pretend they're the real reason?

PS: Did you know that Trump got the nomination in part cuz Hillary's campaign got the media to prop him up under the drastically mistaken believe she could beat him (which was one of the revelations in the Wikileaks that led to the Russia, Russia conspiracy nonsense, cuz apparently Wikileaks = RUSSIA!)?

the-more-you-know.mp4

It was especially surprising considering that the Democrats already had the (apparently) most popular Presidential candidate in USian history ready to go.

If only they would've dropped Biden onto the ticket from the onset he would've won on a landslide there and then, and this entire thread would be moot. The man would've been so charismatic and effective, he would've gotten his two terms and the public would be clamoring to expand presidential term limits. But $Hillary fucked up, so we got Trump instead.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 13, 2020, 07:06:00 PM
Jesus, just one sentence and you still can not understand.

You dont have to play act being a moron all of the time.
You obviously fail to understand my understanding.

Or, as jeffy would say, dance monkey, dance.

Nah, you got the roles reversed, Shasarak is arguing in good faith while you are trolling him.

You are still the monkey, HappyDaze.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 13, 2020, 08:33:09 PM
I would add the Comey announcement, which was judged sufficient to swing the election (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/). it was so corrupt that Barr, willing to stoop to almost anything in service to Donald Trump, wouldn't do that with the Hunter Biden investigation (probably more out of keen awareness that nobody in the Trump administration had any credibility with anyone not already voting for Trump).
Yes, that too.

Has anyone mentioned Hilary Clinton yet?

Biggest factor in my mind.

Why mention one of the real reasons Trump actually got elected when you can bring up conspiracy theories, fever dreams and projections, and pretend they're the real reason?

PS: Did you know that Trump got the nomination in part cuz Hillary's campaign got the media to prop him up under the drastically mistaken believe she could beat him (which was one of the revelations in the Wikileaks that led to the Russia, Russia conspiracy nonsense, cuz apparently Wikileaks = RUSSIA!)?

the-more-you-know.mp4

It was especially surprising considering that the Democrats already had the (apparently) most popular Presidential candidate in USian history ready to go.

Biden didn't run because of the illness and then death of his son Beau. He said at the time he knew he could win the nomination if he had gone ahead with it, but he just couldn't do it while trying to first protect Beau's privacy that he was dying, and then run while grieving for the loss of his son. He had, prior to Beau's illness, planned to run. But he called it off before anything was ever announced.

And he's right, he would have beat Hillary in the primaries I think.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 13, 2020, 08:52:30 PM
And he's right, he would have beat Hillary in the primaries I think.

Same way he beat her in 2008? And beat Bernie too? Also, I'm sure that $Hillary and the DNC wouldn't have cheated against him, the same way they did Bernie, to ensure she got the nomination, because it was "Her Time!". #ImWithHer
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 13, 2020, 09:08:36 PM
Nah, you got the roles reversed, Shasarak is arguing in good faith while you are trolling him.

You are still the monkey, HappyDaze.

The scary thing here is that these guys on the forums are apparently the health professionals that everyone is supposed to trust with regard to things like the Chinese Wuhan virus and when they lie about something as easy to check as this, well it just destroys any of their credibility.

I mean now who is going to wear a mask if Happydaze says they should?  And why would they.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 13, 2020, 09:59:49 PM
They have to make a full length film of this:



Make it so.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 13, 2020, 10:10:54 PM
Nah, you got the roles reversed, Shasarak is arguing in good faith while you are trolling him.

You are still the monkey, HappyDaze.

The scary thing here is that these guys on the forums are apparently the health professionals that everyone is supposed to trust with regard to things like the Chinese Wuhan virus and when they lie about something as easy to check as this, well it just destroys any of their credibility.

I mean now who is going to wear a mask if Happydaze says they should?  And why would they.
What precisely do you believe I have lied about, you dishonest little bitch?

See, we can all call each other dishonest and completely dismiss anything the other says. It's the way things work here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 13, 2020, 10:13:39 PM
And he's right, he would have beat Hillary in the primaries I think.

Same way he beat her in 2008? And beat Bernie too? Also, I'm sure that $Hillary and the DNC wouldn't have cheated against him, the same way they did Bernie, to ensure she got the nomination, because it was "Her Time!". #ImWithHer

No because he hadn't been a Vice President of the United States in 2008. Obviously. Biden had even more establishment support than Hillary did in 2016. And he had a far better background to run against Bernie than she did - he has a huge Union-backing resume she lacked. Biden would have cleaned up in the primaries that year. He just couldn't run.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 13, 2020, 10:26:03 PM
They have to make a full length film of this:



Make it so.

Worst case scenario is CW2...other than that we can sit here and ask them how it feels to bear responsibility for what Biden/Harris does if they take office.

I mean our friends here bitch about 'climate change', 'police brutality', and 'wars in other countries' after they refused to vote for Trump.

C'mon man...you know the incoming admin they chose is going to hold the world's largest polluter and human rights violator accountable for something. 

Surely our fellow posters' moral principles aren't that malleable.

Personally, I think its gonna be fun...  ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 13, 2020, 10:29:55 PM
I mean our fiends here bitch about 'climate change', 'police brutality', and 'wars in other countries' after they refused to vote for Trump.
So, which fiends here are you referring to that bitch about those things and also refused to vote for Trump?

BTW, nice job on blatantly demonizing the other with that word choice, was it intentional or a slip?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 13, 2020, 11:03:39 PM
And he's right, he would have beat Hillary in the primaries I think.

Same way he beat her in 2008? And beat Bernie too? Also, I'm sure that $Hillary and the DNC wouldn't have cheated against him, the same way they did Bernie, to ensure she got the nomination, because it was "Her Time!". #ImWithHer

No because he hadn't been a Vice President of the United States in 2008. Obviously. Biden had even more establishment support than Hillary did in 2016. And he had a far better background to run against Bernie than she did - he has a huge Union-backing resume she lacked. Biden would have cleaned up in the primaries that year. He just couldn't run.

IDK, I doubt that he would’ve generated as much enthusiasm as Bernie. Plus there’s also the fact that the Clintons basically own the Democratic party. But I’ll grant you that he would have stood a better chance coming out of being VP, particularly given how many loved Obama, despite the guy failing to fulfill a single campaign promise and being a war criminal second only to W Bush.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 13, 2020, 11:07:08 PM
I mean our fiends here bitch about 'climate change', 'police brutality', and 'wars in other countries' after they refused to vote for Trump.

I don't bitch about any of those things. I bitch about our immigration policy, trade wars, lack of globalism, health care, failure to repair our infrastructure, and the debt. Biden won't do anything good with the debt but I bet he does better with the other issues.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 13, 2020, 11:10:43 PM
And he's right, he would have beat Hillary in the primaries I think.

Same way he beat her in 2008? And beat Bernie too? Also, I'm sure that $Hillary and the DNC wouldn't have cheated against him, the same way they did Bernie, to ensure she got the nomination, because it was "Her Time!". #ImWithHer

No because he hadn't been a Vice President of the United States in 2008. Obviously. Biden had even more establishment support than Hillary did in 2016. And he had a far better background to run against Bernie than she did - he has a huge Union-backing resume she lacked. Biden would have cleaned up in the primaries that year. He just couldn't run.

IDK, I doubt that he would’ve generated as much enthusiasm as Bernie.

He just fended off both Bernie and Warren, and his name wasn't as prominent as it would have been right after being VP. We don't have to theorize, we know he was able to put the progressives like Bernie away.

Quote
Plus there’s also the fact that the Clintons basically own the Democratic party.

After Obama, Clinton bitched she basically had to put back together the party coalitions because Obama had altered them so much. Biden was walking into the Obama coalitions gift in hand without the need to restructure them so much. She didn't own them, she made them around herself while running.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 13, 2020, 11:34:09 PM
I mean our fiends here bitch about 'climate change', 'police brutality', and 'wars in other countries' after they refused to vote for Trump.
So, which fiends here are you referring to that bitch about those things and also refused to vote for Trump?

BTW, nice job on blatantly demonizing the other with that word choice, was it intentional or a slip?

It has been corrected, my friend.  ;)

...that would have been a good one if it was intentional, unfortunately I can't claim that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 13, 2020, 11:40:39 PM
I mean our fiends here bitch about 'climate change', 'police brutality', and 'wars in other countries' after they refused to vote for Trump.

I don't bitch about any of those things. I bitch about our immigration policy, trade wars, lack of globalism, health care, failure to repair our infrastructure, and the debt. Biden won't do anything good with the debt but I bet he does better with the other issues.

I wasn't referring to you.  The ones I was referencing actually try and claim a moral high ground.  You are just a neocon who feels that making money off of (1)manufactured international conflict, (2)artificially suppressing Americans' wages, and (3)other countries use of slave/forced labor is ok.

I respect you for at least admitting this and not trying to claim the moral high ground.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 14, 2020, 04:46:24 AM
Greetings!

Excellent commentary, Pat. I agree that people often seem to like arguing against some image in their heads rather than actually discussing what someone actually said--or means--and in this case, you in particular.

I interpreted your earlier commentary as what is the word--a dichotomy, or paradox? The one where two statements are seemingly contradictory, while being true at the same time?--I know on some level that an individual vote doesn't matter--but collectively, voting matters, is valuable, and in some circumstances can be decisive. *Shrugs* I think I understood you correctly.
Thanks. You, and Rawma as well, are correct that I was using a rhetorical technique to create some cognitive dissonance. That's because the idea that voting matters, full stop, has been drilled into peoples' heads so much that challenges to it are often unthinkingly dismissed, almost as if they were a form of heresy. By highlighting the statistical impossibility of a single vote swinging an election, I was trying to break through that ingrained, unexamined belief.

On another note, somewhat related--I think some people often like to get *pedantic*. While it can be important to read what someone specifically says--in my view, a deeper and more fulfilling exercise is understanding what a person *means*--which is not always a precise map to what they happened to have said. If that makes any sense.

None the less, though, your assessment about how many people engage in interweb arguments is accurate. I see that often, and even sometimes correcting friends of mine that *didn't* read something fully, but instead skimmed, and then embraced a conclusion. Their conclusions often miss nuance and a greater comprehension of what was said in whatever article.

I think it is always important to actually listen to what the other person is saying. Too often, people arguing on the interwebs don't do that, unfortunately.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
It makes a lot of sense.

A strawman argument is where you twist someone's argument and make it as weak as possible, and then attack the weakened caricature. It typically involves uncharitably interpreting statements in the worst way possible, taking things out of context, and reading things into what they said.

I forget who it was, but a couple months ago, someone on the this board introduced me to a term for the opposite. Instead of starting with the assumption that the other person is wrong, and using any means necessary to knock down their argument, the steelman approach is to to interpret their words as charitably as possible. This involves looking beyond the words they're using to understand the point they're making, and challenging the strongest version. Not only does this reduce petty bickering by showing respect for the person presenting the argument, but pitting your ideas against the strongest opposition is the best way to see if your own arguments really hold up.

I've been using variations on the technique for years, but it's useful to have a term for the concept.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 14, 2020, 06:33:22 AM
IDK, I doubt that he would’ve generated as much enthusiasm as Bernie.

He just fended off both Bernie and Warren, and his name wasn't as prominent as it would have been right after being VP. We don't have to theorize, we know he was able to put the progressives like Bernie away.

Except that we do, because Bernie didn't have the same support in 2020 as he did back in 2016, after $Hillary cheated him and all that he did in response once evidence of that came out was to buy himself a new house and fancy new car, still tell people to vote for her and become an establishment stooge--showing himself to be a spineless, sold-out coward. Plus, by 2020, after years of Antifa beating people on the streets, BLM thugs promoting "Marxism", and politically correct "progressives" (most of whom openly support socialism) canceling people left and right, most people no longer thought that a US Presidential candidate calling himself a "Socialist" was cute.

Quote
Plus there’s also the fact that the Clintons basically own the Democratic party.

After Obama, Clinton bitched she basically had to put back together the party coalitions because Obama had altered them so much. Biden was walking into the Obama coalitions gift in hand without the need to restructure them so much. She didn't own them, she made them around herself while running.

The Democratic Party's ex-interim chief has accused Hillary Clinton of seizing control of the party in exchange for funding during the 2016 campaign. (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41850797)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 14, 2020, 09:42:08 AM
Nah, you got the roles reversed, Shasarak is arguing in good faith while you are trolling him.

You are still the monkey, HappyDaze.

The scary thing here is that these guys on the forums are apparently the health professionals that everyone is supposed to trust with regard to things like the Chinese Wuhan virus and when they lie about something as easy to check as this, well it just destroys any of their credibility.

I mean now who is going to wear a mask if Happydaze says they should?  And why would they.
What precisely do you believe I have lied about, you dishonest little bitch?

See, we can all call each other dishonest and completely dismiss anything the other says. It's the way things work here.

So if it is the way things work here, you should be used to it.

Why does it get you butthurt? Is it because you are a monkey who dances to anyone's tune? Is your kink not OK?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 14, 2020, 09:55:07 AM
Nah, you got the roles reversed, Shasarak is arguing in good faith while you are trolling him.

You are still the monkey, HappyDaze.

The scary thing here is that these guys on the forums are apparently the health professionals that everyone is supposed to trust with regard to things like the Chinese Wuhan virus and when they lie about something as easy to check as this, well it just destroys any of their credibility.

I mean now who is going to wear a mask if Happydaze says they should?  And why would they.
What precisely do you believe I have lied about, you dishonest little bitch?

See, we can all call each other dishonest and completely dismiss anything the other says. It's the way things work here.

So if it is the way things work here, you should be used to it.

Why does it get you butthurt? Is it because you are a monkey who dances to anyone's tune? Is your kink not OK?
Jeffy, you're reading hurt in my posts that doesn't exist. I don't get the least bit upset from the bullshit here because I recognize that both the posts and the posters on this part of the forum are largely just meaningless. But you know that, jeffy, so you just keep playing your character your way, and I'll do the same.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 14, 2020, 11:13:43 AM
Nah, you got the roles reversed, Shasarak is arguing in good faith while you are trolling him.

You are still the monkey, HappyDaze.

The scary thing here is that these guys on the forums are apparently the health professionals that everyone is supposed to trust with regard to things like the Chinese Wuhan virus and when they lie about something as easy to check as this, well it just destroys any of their credibility.

I mean now who is going to wear a mask if Happydaze says they should?  And why would they.
What precisely do you believe I have lied about, you dishonest little bitch?

See, we can all call each other dishonest and completely dismiss anything the other says. It's the way things work here.

So if it is the way things work here, you should be used to it.

Why does it get you butthurt? Is it because you are a monkey who dances to anyone's tune? Is your kink not OK?
Jeffy, you're reading hurt in my posts that doesn't exist. I don't get the least bit upset from the bullshit here because I recognize that both the posts and the posters on this part of the forum are largely just meaningless. But you know that, jeffy, so you just keep playing your character your way, and I'll do the same.

Of course you aren't butthurt......   ::) ::)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 14, 2020, 11:22:02 AM
Nah, you got the roles reversed, Shasarak is arguing in good faith while you are trolling him.

You are still the monkey, HappyDaze.

The scary thing here is that these guys on the forums are apparently the health professionals that everyone is supposed to trust with regard to things like the Chinese Wuhan virus and when they lie about something as easy to check as this, well it just destroys any of their credibility.

I mean now who is going to wear a mask if Happydaze says they should?  And why would they.
What precisely do you believe I have lied about, you dishonest little bitch?

See, we can all call each other dishonest and completely dismiss anything the other says. It's the way things work here.

So if it is the way things work here, you should be used to it.

Why does it get you butthurt? Is it because you are a monkey who dances to anyone's tune? Is your kink not OK?
Jeffy, you're reading hurt in my posts that doesn't exist. I don't get the least bit upset from the bullshit here because I recognize that both the posts and the posters on this part of the forum are largely just meaningless. But you know that, jeffy, so you just keep playing your character your way, and I'll do the same.

Of course you aren't butthurt......   ::) ::)
Imagine what you want, jeffy; I know you need feel like your posts matter to others to help you masturbate.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 14, 2020, 11:30:54 AM
Nah, you got the roles reversed, Shasarak is arguing in good faith while you are trolling him.

You are still the monkey, HappyDaze.

The scary thing here is that these guys on the forums are apparently the health professionals that everyone is supposed to trust with regard to things like the Chinese Wuhan virus and when they lie about something as easy to check as this, well it just destroys any of their credibility.

I mean now who is going to wear a mask if Happydaze says they should?  And why would they.
What precisely do you believe I have lied about, you dishonest little bitch?

See, we can all call each other dishonest and completely dismiss anything the other says. It's the way things work here.

So if it is the way things work here, you should be used to it.

Why does it get you butthurt? Is it because you are a monkey who dances to anyone's tune? Is your kink not OK?
Jeffy, you're reading hurt in my posts that doesn't exist. I don't get the least bit upset from the bullshit here because I recognize that both the posts and the posters on this part of the forum are largely just meaningless. But you know that, jeffy, so you just keep playing your character your way, and I'll do the same.

Of course you aren't butthurt......   ::) ::)
Imagine what you want, jeffy; I know you need feel like your posts matter to others to help you masturbate.

Well, that IS why we do this, isn't it?

We know that we will not convince someone of the error in their ways via internet argument, so we are performing for that unseen audience out there reading these posts. If you feel that is masturbation, then your own entrenched political trolling stance is worth nothing more to you than spunk dribbled from a flaccid member into a damp washcloth.

Just keep on dancin', you monkey!   ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 14, 2020, 01:24:15 PM
I mean our fiends here bitch about 'climate change', 'police brutality', and 'wars in other countries' after they refused to vote for Trump.

I don't bitch about any of those things. I bitch about our immigration policy, trade wars, lack of globalism, health care, failure to repair our infrastructure, and the debt. Biden won't do anything good with the debt but I bet he does better with the other issues.

I wasn't referring to you.  The ones I was referencing actually try and claim a moral high ground.  You are just a neocon who feels that making money off of (1)manufactured international conflict, (2)artificially suppressing Americans' wages, and (3)other countries use of slave/forced labor is ok.

I respect you for at least admitting this and not trying to claim the moral high ground.

The impact our imports had on China is a thriving middle class in China, much higher wages in China, and the ability of workers to quit and move between jobs and even strike if their factories don't pay better wages (which usually happens during Chinese New Year). All of which I watched happen over the past decade. A rising tide raises all boats, and that is what globalism does. It had the same impact in Viet Nam, who is now only about 5 years behind China for that effect. It's spreading now to Cambodia and Bangladesh and Nigeria.

Eventually, if we stopped fucking with it and let the market do it's thing, all "third world" nations would rise into "second world" nations and then "first world" nations. And as that happens you see freedoms dramatically increase. People spend their money on many of our cultural exports, like movies and iPhones and branded products. And they demand more freedoms when that happens. Because they see our culture, and our freedoms, and they want that for themselves now that they have the money to spend on it.

Trump fucked all this up with his nationalism and his trade wars. Freedom took a step back in some of these nations in the wake of it. Combined with our boneheaded immigration policies where somehow we started to say no to trained doctors and engineers from other nations wanting to emigrate here despite the high value of that immigration to our longterm economy, and it was just a terrible combination of anti-globalism policies.

And I disagree it was suppressing wages. You don't see manufacturing thriving here after we raised those custom taxes, all you saw was a shift from China to other nations for imports for some companies, at a slightly higher cost. As a manufacturer I can tell you the impact it had on us - the increased customs costs suppressed the wages of our other manufacturing employees who manufacture the more complicated items which we make here in the U.S.. So it had the exact opposite effect of what you thought it did for us. It's not like companies were going to suddenly start weaving and dying fabric here in the U.S. after 25 years of the U.S. not doing that. We don't have that equipment, space, warehousing, resellers, distributors, raw materials, or expertise for that anymore and it was still way cheaper to do overseas even with the higher tax than to try and restart that entire industry from scratch here. All it did was add a big tax on some businesses. With the largest impact on small businesses. Which is a boneheaded move. The whole scheme was unworkable from a logistics standpoint, crafted purely as a sales pitch to people who don't know the details of how it worked. It sounded good, like it was going to bring manufacturing jobs back to the U.S., but it was not built to do that at all in a realistic sense. Why you'd trust the Government to manage something like that I will never know. Since when has the Government been good at putting together complex systems like that?

But I get the nationalism perspective. It's not that I think it's evil, I just don't think it was the wisest move for the long term health of our nation. I think it comes down to Trump was engaging in style over substance when it came to the trade wars stuff.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 14, 2020, 01:57:29 PM
Trump was engaging in style over substance when it came to the trade wars stuff.
He's always taking politics and the economy to the edge, because that's the point...that's the Trumppunk way.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 14, 2020, 01:59:31 PM
The impact our imports had on China is a thriving middle class in China, much higher wages in China, and the ability of workers to quit and move between jobs and even strike if their factories don't pay better wages (which usually happens during Chinese New Year). All of which I watched happen over the past decade. A rising tide raises all boats, and that is what globalism does. It had the same impact in Viet Nam, who is now only about 5 years behind China for that effect. It's spreading now to Cambodia and Bangladesh and Nigeria.
Do you have some citations for China? What I've seen is that China's successes largely happened because the central government authorized local officials in certain zones to experiment. The successful ones allow a certain degree of a free market, but it's still very limited and mother-may-I. It's also highly regional, and has led to staggering disparities between provinces, because the freedoms and economic growth are concentrated in a few areas. I haven't heard much about strikes, but given how the government handles other forms of opposition, I would be very surprised if they were a widespread phenomenon.

Eventually, if we stopped fucking with it and let the market do it's thing, all "third world" nations would rise into "second world" nations and then "first world" nations. And as that happens you see freedoms dramatically increase. People spend their money on many of our cultural exports, like movies and iPhones and branded products. And they demand more freedoms when that happens. Because they see our culture, and our freedoms, and they want that for themselves now that they have the money to spend on it.
China is a counter-argument. They might want freedom, but they're not getting it.

And what you're describing has already happened. There used to be a sharp gulf between the first and third world, but since the 1970s the gulf has almost vanished. There are still disparities, but instead of two distinct groupings of rich and poor, it's now a continuous spread from poor to rich, with most nations in the middle range. The number of truly poor countries has dropped, drastically.

Hans Rosling does a good job presenting the data:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVimVzgtD6w

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 14, 2020, 02:28:19 PM
The impact our imports had on China is a thriving middle class in China, much higher wages in China, and the ability of workers to quit and move between jobs and even strike if their factories don't pay better wages (which usually happens during Chinese New Year). All of which I watched happen over the past decade. A rising tide raises all boats, and that is what globalism does. It had the same impact in Viet Nam, who is now only about 5 years behind China for that effect. It's spreading now to Cambodia and Bangladesh and Nigeria.

Eventually, if we stopped fucking with it and let the market do it's thing, all "third world" nations would rise into "second world" nations and then "first world" nations. And as that happens you see freedoms dramatically increase. People spend their money on many of our cultural exports, like movies and iPhones and branded products. And they demand more freedoms when that happens. Because they see our culture, and our freedoms, and they want that for themselves now that they have the money to spend on it.

Trump fucked all this up with his nationalism and his trade wars. Freedom took a step back in some of these nations in the wake of it. Combined with our boneheaded immigration policies where somehow we started to say no to trained doctors and engineers from other nations wanting to emigrate here despite the high value of that immigration to our longterm economy, and it was just a terrible combination of anti-globalism policies.

And I disagree it was suppressing wages. You don't see manufacturing thriving here after we raised those custom taxes, all you saw was a shift from China to other nations for imports for some companies, at a slightly higher cost. As a manufacturer I can tell you the impact it had on us - the increased customs costs suppressed the wages of our other manufacturing employees who manufacture the more complicated items which we make here in the U.S.. So it had the exact opposite effect of what you thought it did for us. It's not like companies were going to suddenly start weaving and dying fabric here in the U.S. after 25 years of the U.S. not doing that. We don't have that equipment, space, warehousing, resellers, distributors, raw materials, or expertise for that anymore and it was still way cheaper to do overseas even with the higher tax than to try and restart that entire industry from scratch here. All it did was add a big tax on some businesses. With the largest impact on small businesses. Which is a boneheaded move. The whole scheme was unworkable from a logistics standpoint, crafted purely as a sales pitch to people who don't know the details of how it worked. It sounded good, like it was going to bring manufacturing jobs back to the U.S., but it was not built to do that at all in a realistic sense. Why you'd trust the Government to manage something like that I will never know. Since when has the Government been good at putting together complex systems like that?

But I get the nationalism perspective. It's not that I think it's evil, I just don't think it was the wisest move for the long term health of our nation. I think it comes down to Trump was engaging in style over substance when it came to the trade wars stuff.

1.  Increased freedom in China...Should I ask any Uyghurs or HK residents about that?

2.  Most of the small business manufacturers around here were doing much better from 2016-2019 than they were in the decade previously, including the one I work for.

3.  Textile industry/China...That explains a lot.

4.   So lets go ahead and make China actually obey the international rules of trade for a nation of its economic size...somehow I think the intellectual theft, human rights abuse, and pollution output are gonna put a damper on their low prices...but I guess you didn't actually say true free trade with the same rules all around did you.

5.  Intellectual immigration...because the vast majority of the people coming here are doctors...and no one in the tech field has had to train their replacements have they...and companys don't pay them less and tell them to like it or they'll get sent home...naw, that never happens.

6.  A self-identifying Bushie neocon complaining about government overreach???...I'm not even gonna formulate a response to this.

7.  I think the 'second world' kind of disappeared with the Warsaw Pact...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 14, 2020, 02:37:30 PM

Do you have some citations for China? What I've seen is that China's successes largely happened because the central government authorized local officials in certain zones to experiment. The successful ones allow a certain degree of a free market, but it's still very limited and mother-may-I. It's also highly regional, and has led to staggering disparities between provinces, because the freedoms and economic growth are concentrated in a few areas. I haven't heard much about strikes, but given how the government handles other forms of opposition, I would be very surprised if they were a widespread phenomenon.


You are correct.  The USSR did the same think back in the day, but since there was no realtime www newscycle and we weren't trading partners, they were able to keep a tight lid on the info.
(They couldn't have any information getting out and dispelling the communism myth.)

Eventually all of the communist nations discover they need a certain amount of 'shadow' crony capitalism to generate money.  We have just been able to watch it happen live this time.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 14, 2020, 02:48:54 PM
Nah, you got the roles reversed, Shasarak is arguing in good faith while you are trolling him.

You are still the monkey, HappyDaze.

The scary thing here is that these guys on the forums are apparently the health professionals that everyone is supposed to trust with regard to things like the Chinese Wuhan virus and when they lie about something as easy to check as this, well it just destroys any of their credibility.

I mean now who is going to wear a mask if Happydaze says they should?  And why would they.
What precisely do you believe I have lied about, you dishonest little bitch?

See, we can all call each other dishonest and completely dismiss anything the other says. It's the way things work here.

Yeah I am the dishonest one.

Sorry not teaching pigs to sing today.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 14, 2020, 03:14:12 PM

Yeah I am the dishonest one.

Admitting you are the problem is the first step, but only if you're honest about it...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 14, 2020, 04:01:03 PM
Uh huh.

 ::)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on December 14, 2020, 06:09:20 PM
What's that sound?

"Biden won! There's no fraud! Trump must concede!"

Nope. That's the babble of cucks whose idea of rebellion is lip-syncing to Silicon Valley oligarchs.

Listen for that other sound.

"Electors voted! Everything's done! Nothing can change after today!"

Nope. That's idiot noise for those haven't read the Constitution.

"But 40 gazillion GOP members already congratulated Biden and say its over."

RINOs and doomers are Republicans. We are MAGA. Totally different political party. Sorry for the confusion. Among many other things, that will be sorted out in due time.

Listen closely...

2,000,000 Chinese spies unmasked.
Dominion computer fraud verified.
AG Bill "DNC Protector" Barr fired.
2018 Executive Order on Foreign Election Interference activates by December 18th.

Just in case you haven't heard about that last one...
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-imposing-certain-sanctions-event-foreign-interference-united-states-election/ (https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-imposing-certain-sanctions-event-foreign-interference-united-states-election/)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 14, 2020, 06:59:51 PM
Well, the Electoral College has now convened and elected Biden in at over 300 votes. I realize that doesn't change people's minds about the presence of election fraud. However, a number of posters were insistent that Trump had a master plan and would successfully win his way to a second term such as through the lawsuits. That seems far less likely now.

Following up from Reply #1901 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1156302/#msg1156302), where EOTB compared me to Crowder:
And of course we all laugh at these crowder sketches, but we also all laugh because we know they won't be able to change crowder's mind; what is humorous is that they try and fail miserably.  The joke is literally that people would try to change crowder's mind with information he doesn't consider credible at a basic level. 

Just be aware that you are the person walking up to the table trying to change jhkim's mind. 

Unless those charged can't come up with some plausibly-sounding defense, or some assertion that they did in fact follow the laws, then nothing has to change jhkim's mind.  His standard for agreeing with you is not preponderance of whether there's something stinks here, it's something so open and shut no defense lawyer would think worth any amount of money to front a bullshit defense - or even a simple denial - over.   It would have to be something where the "defendant" said, OK, you got me.  I plead guilty and hope for mercy.

Nothing wrong with taking that stance.  Others should be aware they're walking up to Crowder's table, is all.

I haven't been convinced by the "stole the election" arguments, but in general in this forum - there are times when I've conceded points and/or apologized. Like everyone, I have my own biases, but I try to check them regularly.

Honestly, I came into this prepared to concede a number of points of "Yeah that looks like fruad" - but just not enough fraud to turn the election. There are dozens of cases of fraud every election year. My impression coming in is that Democrats more often are found guilty of fraudulent votes, while Republicans are more often guilty of illegal vote suppression. However, I have been underwhelmed by the evidence presented here.

I had a chance to look over the Cicchetti declaration -- it's just 10 pages (it is pages 20 to 29 of the document below). Consolcwby dismissed the Reason.com analysis because he notes that they have had liberal funding, but that's just attacking the source. Reading the actual filing, it seems to me that their analysis is entirely accurate.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22O155/163048/20201208132827887_TX-v-State-ExpedMot%202020-12-07%20FINAL.pdf

The assumptions are first, that votes should be the same between Clinton in 2016 and Biden in 2020; and second, that every part of the state (and in-person vs absent voting) should have the same distribution of votes. Neither of those are legitimate assumptions.


But jhkim's assertion that if the DOD/CIA had a shooting incident, that this would be dutifully publicized is likewise ridiculous on its face.  I have no idea if that ever happened and don't expect to ever receive a "yes it did".

OK, fair enough. My argument there was overstated. It's not a given - so I could see that it might be covered up. And yet, it was stated that the raid was for the purpose of exposing the election fraud, and that it was successful. I would think that with Trump still as commander-in-chief, he would have access to the revealed material and would want to publicize that proof. I realize that not all military decisions make sense, but it seems like a major unexplained point.

The point being, I'm doubtful about McInerny's testimony on this point. You claim that you have no idea if it happened, which suggests to me that you doubt his testimony as well. I don't get it. If you doubt his testimony too, why is it stubborn intransigence for me to doubt his testimony?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 14, 2020, 09:54:37 PM
Well, the Electoral College has now convened and elected Biden in at over 300 votes. I realize that doesn't change people's minds about the presence of election fraud. However, a number of posters were insistent that Trump had a master plan and would successfully win his way to a second term such as through the lawsuits. That seems far less likely now.

Following up from Reply #1901 (https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/msg1156302/#msg1156302), where EOTB compared me to Crowder:
----snipppp----
But jhkim's assertion that if the DOD/CIA had a shooting incident, that this would be dutifully publicized is likewise ridiculous on its face.  I have no idea if that ever happened and don't expect to ever receive a "yes it did".

OK, fair enough. My argument there was overstated. It's not a given - so I could see that it might be covered up. And yet, it was stated that the raid was for the purpose of exposing the election fraud, and that it was successful. I would think that with Trump still as commander-in-chief, he would have access to the revealed material and would want to publicize that proof. I realize that not all military decisions make sense, but it seems like a major unexplained point.

The point being, I'm doubtful about McInerny's testimony on this point. You claim that you have no idea if it happened, which suggests to me that you doubt his testimony as well. I don't get it. If you doubt his testimony too, why is it stubborn intransigence for me to doubt his testimony?
Congrats. My last message:
CONCOMMS:
Quote
https://swp59.wordpress.com/2020/12/09/cdc-plans-covid-gulag-an-unspecified-number-of-americans-will-be-classified-as-high-risk-for-covid-19-in-2021-and-sent-willing-or-unwilling-to-internment-camps-until-such-time-as-the-government/
See? You won.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 14, 2020, 11:11:40 PM
WHY - OH WHY - HAVE I GIVEN UP???
(spoilers: i haven't.)
=================================
INFO INFO INFO:
---------------
Social Media (SM) is now censoring ANY discussion of the kind, like we are having in this thread! The Mainstream Media (MSM) are now the only ones with a VOICE! Even those here wish to SILENCE DISSENT! Will it work? WILL I BE silenced? Here is some interesting ON-TOPIC finds from today:

https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1338214339447296003
The MSM will continue with their narrative, they will   tell you that today all of the states sent electors for Joe Biden and its all over. This is why the SM changed their terms of service, they don’t want anyone interfering with their narrative.   Remember their are  competing slates of electors that are being sent in many contested states.

Read the whole thread:
https://twitter.com/TheKBTweets/status/1337777807565393924

NV PA & GA are sending  Congress a “dueling slate of Electors. Today, Trump electors, from the state of Michigan, were denied entry to the Michigan State Capitol after Governor Whitmer and other officials sent 200+ troops to guard the building. The [DS] players are panicking, they are sending messages:
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/1338548429753081868
The CLOCK behind Clinton reads 12:10...
The CONSTITUTION, 12 AMENDMENT - LINE 10:
Quote
The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. [And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.–]
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-12/

BUT,WHY are they panicking? The Dominion systems forensenic audit report was released.
https://twitter.com/Wizard_Predicts/status/1338495676322353153
https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482
Here is the report: https://www.depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_[121320]_v2_[redacted].pdf

Also: https://www.theepochtimes.com/dominion-voting-systems-uses-firm-that-was-hacked_3617507.html
A company that provides voting systems in 28 states uses an Internet technology firm that was hacked.
Dominion Voting Systems uses SolarWinds software, a SolarWinds does not list Dominion on its partial customer listing but says its products and services are used by more than 300,000 customers around the world, including all five branches of the U.S. military and more than 425 of the U.S. Fortune 500. The situation with SolarWinds software enabled hackers to gain access to the U.S. Commerce Department and, reportedly, the Treasury Department. SolarWinds Orion products are currently being exploited by malicious actors, the Department of Homeland Security’s Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Agency (CISA) said. The tactic lets an attacker gain access to network traffic management systems. The only known mitigation measure currently available is to disconnect affected devices, according to the agency.

Where did I first hear about this? The MAN who is NO LONGER SILENCED: https://twitter.com/GenFlynn/status/1338457125270523904
The MSM is going to try to connect this to Russia,  Crowdstrike is commenting on the breach: RUSSIA 2.0
https://twitter.com/HisBlakeness/status/1338183513330360326
I agree with MY MONKEY! As Jeff puts it: DANCE DANCE! https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1338481197693825025

Is Trump playing the Trump card, he allowed the enemy to walk through the door, actually the entire swamp walked through the door, everyone went all in, Trump is now going to be calling it, those who knowingly went all in on election fraud are done for. Newly appointed special counsel John Durham is expanding his team as he continues his investigation into the origins of the Trump-Russia investigation and the conduct of law enforcement and intelligence officials involved in it. Durham , has expanded his investigative team and is adding new prosecutors! https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/john-durham-adds-prosecutors-special-counsel

Oh, by the way, What are YOU gonna do when GOD TURNS OUT THE LIGHTS?? https://dailybuzzlive.com/alert-nasa-confirms-earth-will-go-dark-6-days-december/

fnord.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 14, 2020, 11:12:18 PM

https://swp59.wordpress.com/2020/12/09/cdc-plans-covid-gulag-an-unspecified-number-of-americans-will-be-classified-as-high-risk-for-covid-19-in-2021-and-sent-willing-or-unwilling-to-internment-camps-until-such-time-as-the-government/

A WordPress blog written by a woman who, the day after writing this ridiculous post, urged her readers to check out The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. Are you serious? Are you a diagnosed schizophrenic? Serious question, I'm not even taking the piss. Because your posts are really... something.

Also bookmarking the garbage about Gulags so I can laugh at it again later.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 14, 2020, 11:13:38 PM
Oh, also, Smartmatic has sued Fox, OANN and Newsmax. The discovery phase'll be hilarious.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 14, 2020, 11:30:32 PM

https://swp59.wordpress.com/2020/12/09/cdc-plans-covid-gulag-an-unspecified-number-of-americans-will-be-classified-as-high-risk-for-covid-19-in-2021-and-sent-willing-or-unwilling-to-internment-camps-until-such-time-as-the-government/

A WordPress blog written by a woman who, the day after writing this ridiculous post, urged her readers to check out The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. Are you serious? Are you a diagnosed schizophrenic? Serious question, I'm not even taking the piss. Because your posts are really... something.

Also bookmarking the garbage about Gulags so I can laugh at it again later.
GOTCHA!

(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/dancing-monkey-gif-1.gif)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 14, 2020, 11:39:12 PM
WHY - OH WHY - HAVE I GIVEN UP???
(spoilers: i haven't.)
=================================
INFO INFO INFO:
---------------
Social Media (SM) is now censoring ANY discussion of the kind, like we are having in this thread! The Mainstream Media (MSM) are now the only ones with a VOICE! Even those here wish to SILENCE DISSENT! Will it work? WILL I BE silenced? Here is some interesting ON-TOPIC finds from today:

https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1338214339447296003
The MSM will continue with their narrative, they will   tell you that today all of the states sent electors for Joe Biden and its all over. This is why the SM changed their terms of service, they don’t want anyone interfering with their narrative.   Remember their are  competing slates of electors that are being sent in many contested states.

Read the whole thread:
https://twitter.com/TheKBTweets/status/1337777807565393924

NV PA & GA are sending  Congress a “dueling slate of Electors. Today, Trump electors, from the state of Michigan, were denied entry to the Michigan State Capitol after Governor Whitmer and other officials sent 200+ troops to guard the building. The [DS] players are panicking, they are sending messages:
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/1338548429753081868
The CLOCK behind Clinton reads 12:10...
The CONSTITUTION, 12 AMENDMENT - LINE 10:
Quote
The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. [And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.–]
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-12/

BUT,WHY are they panicking? The Dominion systems forensenic audit report was released.
https://twitter.com/Wizard_Predicts/status/1338495676322353153
https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482
Here is the report: https://www.depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_[121320]_v2_[redacted].pdf

Also: https://www.theepochtimes.com/dominion-voting-systems-uses-firm-that-was-hacked_3617507.html
A company that provides voting systems in 28 states uses an Internet technology firm that was hacked.
Dominion Voting Systems uses SolarWinds software, a SolarWinds does not list Dominion on its partial customer listing but says its products and services are used by more than 300,000 customers around the world, including all five branches of the U.S. military and more than 425 of the U.S. Fortune 500. The situation with SolarWinds software enabled hackers to gain access to the U.S. Commerce Department and, reportedly, the Treasury Department. SolarWinds Orion products are currently being exploited by malicious actors, the Department of Homeland Security’s Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Agency (CISA) said. The tactic lets an attacker gain access to network traffic management systems. The only known mitigation measure currently available is to disconnect affected devices, according to the agency.

Where did I first hear about this? The MAN who is NO LONGER SILENCED: https://twitter.com/GenFlynn/status/1338457125270523904
The MSM is going to try to connect this to Russia,  Crowdstrike is commenting on the breach: RUSSIA 2.0
https://twitter.com/HisBlakeness/status/1338183513330360326
I agree with MY MONKEY! As Jeff puts it: DANCE DANCE! https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1338481197693825025

Is Trump playing the Trump card, he allowed the enemy to walk through the door, actually the entire swamp walked through the door, everyone went all in, Trump is now going to be calling it, those who knowingly went all in on election fraud are done for. Newly appointed special counsel John Durham is expanding his team as he continues his investigation into the origins of the Trump-Russia investigation and the conduct of law enforcement and intelligence officials involved in it. Durham , has expanded his investigative team and is adding new prosecutors! https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/john-durham-adds-prosecutors-special-counsel

Oh, by the way, What are YOU gonna do when GOD TURNS OUT THE LIGHTS?? https://dailybuzzlive.com/alert-nasa-confirms-earth-will-go-dark-6-days-december/

fnord.

For alternate electors to do anything, they would need at least a majority of the House to vote that way.

But, Democrats have a majority of the House. There is no prayer, no prayer at all, they would vote for Trump.

So unless you can show me how the House will vote for Trump to override the primary electors and go with the secondary electors, it is in fact over.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 14, 2020, 11:58:14 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/05/us/house-democrats-election-losses.html

Quote
But by Thursday, one of the incumbents Democrats had spent heavily to defend, Representative Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, who was defeated Tuesday night as President Trump won a resounding victory in her Miami-area district, broke into tears as she spoke out to her soon-to-be former colleagues about internal divides in the party.

I was unable to find the part where some Democrat fears that her house will be bombed if she doesn't go along with other Democrats. Because you're stupid and dishonest, I will again provide the link about that happening to a Republican:
Quote
When The New York Times asked Kim Ward, the Republican leader in the Pennsylvania Senate, whether she would have signed a letter declaring there was fraud in the state’s election, she replied, “If I would say to you, ‘I don’t want to do it,’” referring to signing the letter, “I’d get my house bombed tonight.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/republican-party-abandoning-democracy/617359/

Ah, more gotchas!

Nope, just a fact about where the Republican party is. Notice the number of GOP Congress members retiring in the last two cycles? Justin Amash left the party, and is now followed by Paul Mitchell, who was already retiring.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/14/politics/paul-mitchell-quits-gop/index.html

Quote
Yes, because it's usually Trump supporters bombing people's houses (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9027071/Moment-man-throws-explosive-Trump-supporters-Michigan-home.html). Therefore a Republican Senator's unfounded fears that a Trump supporter would bomb her house* is a valid clapback to bring into this discussion.

*something that has never actually happened and the only alleged Trump supporter to ever be involved in a mail bombing scheme sent them only to Democrats, one CIA guy and CNN, and the devices didn't even have a trigger mechanism, so they never exploded. So there's zero precedent, as far as I know, to believe a Republican senator would be targeted by Trump supporters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2018_United_States_mail_bombing_attempts

Quote
All sixteen confirmed bombs sent were improvised explosive devices,[11] though none had a trigger mechanism.[12] None of the devices exploded outside a controlled setting.[13]

Guy who puts up "Fuck your feelings" sign is sufficiently disliked that somebody threw explosives at his house, but it can only be because of his politics and not that he's an abrasive jerk. The bomb guy mailing to Democrats? Big Trump supporter, so no parallel with Republicans afraid of their own supporters.

Is the guy in your story a GOP elected official or party leader? Did they catch anyone who did it? Again, I was pointing at a GOP elected official being that scared of GOP supporters. Point me at some Democratic elected official who is as scared of Democratic supporters, or at least claiming to be as an excuse for something they are or are not doing. Hillary supposedly killed people but no Democrat seemed scared of criticizing her harshly in the aftermath of her loss.

Your story does remind me of the combine fire that was blamed on Antifa:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/93wwme/so-did-antifa-light-this-guys-combine-on-fire-or-what
Quote
Rempel’s fire fiasco was brought into question Monday by crop scientist Dr. Sarah Taber on Twitter. In a thread, Taber wrote “This dude literally violated rule #1 in AgFax's handy 12-step guide in 'how to not light your combine on fire' but he just knows in his heart it was antifa […] sure thing, pal.”
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 15, 2020, 12:02:21 AM
So we’re both citing a source oriented to the left (NYT seems to be the original source).

NYT, that publishes Bret Stephens, Ross Douthat and David Brooks? The one that trashed Hillary Clinton endlessly? LOL.

It's difficult to find an honest source that hasn't been smeared by the right as leftist; apparently Fox News is now part of the conspiracy. But I expect anything that disagrees with you to be labelled as the left anyway.

Quote
As mentioned the divisions have been noted in foreign papers as well (and they tend to know which way the sources lean). Anyway, none of what you say actually goes counter to the notion that there is a pretty deep division on the left.

Provide links. I don't expect there won't be disagreements within a successful party and recriminations in an unsuccessful one, but you should have noticed the GOP-on-GOP war in the run up to the Senate runoff in Georgia. There was far more fracturing in the 2016 election cycle between Bernie supporters and the Democratic "establishment", both before and after the election than there is now in the Democratic party.

To clarify my position, fracturing implies something serious enough that the party could break apart; if you're just pointing at the usual Democratic squabbling, that's nothing new: Will Rogers said "I am not a member of any organized party - I am a Democrat." The stresses on the GOP are between Trumpism and other factions, the retirements and abandonment, the number of Republicans-for-Biden groups; all are highly unusual in a party with an autocratic mindset and high message discipline.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 15, 2020, 12:22:33 AM
It was especially surprising considering that the Democrats already had the (apparently) most popular Presidential candidate in USian history ready to go.
If only they would've dropped Biden onto the ticket from the onset he would've won on a landslide there and then, and this entire thread would be moot. The man would've been so charismatic and effective, he would've gotten his two terms and the public would be clamoring to expand presidential term limits. But $Hillary fucked up, so we got Trump instead.

He chose not to run in 2016 because of his son's illness and death. He probably would have won; there was a reason Trump was so scared of him as to try to extort Ukraine to generate fake dirt on him.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/21/politics/joe-biden-not-running-2016-election/index.html

And he's right, he would have beat Hillary in the primaries I think.

Same way he beat her in 2008? And beat Bernie too? Also, I'm sure that $Hillary and the DNC wouldn't have cheated against him, the same way they did Bernie, to ensure she got the nomination, because it was "Her Time!". #ImWithHer

In 2008, Joe Biden was a Senator at a time when the last Senator to win the presidency was John F. Kennedy (but Obama demonstrated it could be done). In 2016 he was the sitting Vice President and had his association with Obama; when did the sitting Vice President last fail to get the nomination if he wanted it*? And he was the front runner from the start in 2020 four years away from those advantages. But Hillary in 2016 would have been a formidable primary opponent.

* Truman's vice president in 1952, I think.

Oh, after starting each reply I noticed that Mistwell answered both of these quite well. But I wanted to add my own comments.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 15, 2020, 12:23:36 AM
My impression coming in is that Democrats more often are found guilty of fraudulent votes, while Republicans are more often guilty of illegal vote suppression.

My impression on the first part is the reverse; most of the cases of fraudulent votes have been Republicans, usually because they were convinced by the conspiracy theorists that they needed to vote twice: that their absentee votes wouldn't count so they also voted in person, or that the Democrats were doing it so they had to counter their cheating. Pennsylvania had two cases this election, both by Republicans.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/12/01/0-000002-percent-of-all-the-ballots-cast-in-the-2016-election-were-fraudulent/
(3 of their 4 examples were Republican voters; the fourth seemed aimed at a mayoral race; the cases still being investigated did not state any party affiliation.)

Voter suppression is clearly a Republican thing; their leaders admit that more people voting would make it impossible to elect a Republican. Voter ID to target Democratic voters, reducing polling locations, limiting early voting, striking voter registrations on flimsy grounds, census changes and so on are the modern poll taxes, literacy tests and voter intimidation.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/30/trump-republican-party-voting-reform-coronavirus
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/12/13/live-politics-updates-joe-biden-donald-trump/6529431002/
https://www.cnn.com/2016/04/06/politics/glenn-grothman-voter-id-wisconsin-republican-2016/index.html
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-supreme-court-census-republican-advantage-20190530-story.html

Quote
However, I have been underwhelmed by the evidence presented here.

Agreed.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 15, 2020, 12:30:36 AM
So the Electoral College voted today. The military coup looks like the last feasible path for Donald Trump to remain in power.

Congratulations again to President-elect Biden and Vice-President-elect Harris!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 15, 2020, 01:38:09 AM

https://swp59.wordpress.com/2020/12/09/cdc-plans-covid-gulag-an-unspecified-number-of-americans-will-be-classified-as-high-risk-for-covid-19-in-2021-and-sent-willing-or-unwilling-to-internment-camps-until-such-time-as-the-government/

A WordPress blog written by a woman who, the day after writing this ridiculous post, urged her readers to check out The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. Are you serious? Are you a diagnosed schizophrenic? Serious question, I'm not even taking the piss. Because your posts are really... something.

Also bookmarking the garbage about Gulags so I can laugh at it again later.
GOTCHA!

(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/dancing-monkey-gif-1.gif)

I approve this GIF.   ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on December 15, 2020, 01:54:26 AM
So the Electoral College voted today. The military coup looks like the last feasible path for Donald Trump to remain in power.

Congratulations again to President-elect Biden and Vice-President-elect Harris!


but but....fraud...kraken...and such. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 15, 2020, 08:02:31 AM
Three words, dating back to 2016, and before that 2000...

"Not my president."

Get ready to enjoy the suck as your senile messiah and his round-heeled helper piledrive the economy. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 15, 2020, 08:18:48 AM
Three words, dating back to 2016, and before that 2000...

"Not my president."

Get ready to enjoy the suck as your senile messiah and his round-heeled helper piledrive the economy. :)
You could always try losing with grace and trying to make the best of a (presumably) bad situation, but I'd never expect to see that idea embraced here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 15, 2020, 08:23:32 AM
So the Electoral College voted today. The military coup looks like the last feasible path for Donald Trump to remain in power.

Congratulations again to President-elect Biden and Vice-President-elect Harris!


but but....fraud...kraken...and such.
I've been on the Kraken at Sea World. From what I recall, it was too much time waiting for a short ride that was ultimately forgettable. Sounds like we're talking about the same Kraken here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 15, 2020, 08:40:06 AM
Three words, dating back to 2016, and before that 2000...

"Not my president."

Get ready to enjoy the suck as your senile messiah and his round-heeled helper piledrive the economy. :)

No, those words date back to the 90s (usually paired with "Charlton Heston is") and to 2008 and 2012. In 2000 and 2016 when the Republican took the presidency without winning the popular vote through various underhanded tricks like voter suppression, it was more like "not a legitimate president". Good luck with that message when there isn't any massive fraud and a huge margin of victory.

The Republicans will as usual pivot to deficit hawk mode and sabotaging the country during a Democratic presidency. As they have in the past, and still the Democratic president manages to save the economy anyway despite being gifted a flaming bag of excrement by incompetent and malicious Republican administrations. (It's probably why the Republicans see so much imaginary fraud; they can't imagine that someone would have competence and not use it to steal elections, since that's what they would do.)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 15, 2020, 08:54:22 AM
And while the children scream into the void, it seems the Antrim County (Michigan) audit dropped.

Quote
https://www.depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_[121320]_v2_[redacted].pdf

Goodness me. That looks bad.

EDIT: Evidently Deperno Law missed the memo that BBS software hates brackets in links. Copy and paste the link, don't try to click on it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 15, 2020, 09:32:31 AM
And while the children scream into the void, it seems the Antrim County (Michigan) audit dropped.

https://www.depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_[121320]_v2_[redacted].pdf

Goodness me. That looks bad.
Looks like a 404 error to me. So, a lot of nothing. Again.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 15, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
So we’re both citing a source oriented to the left (NYT seems to be the original source).

NYT, that publishes Bret Stephens, Ross Douthat and David Brooks? The one that trashed Hillary Clinton endlessly? LOL.


So NYT is not left-leaning now. Well, I think you lost all credibility a long time ago anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 15, 2020, 09:56:21 AM
Greetings!

The New York Times is a totally Leftist newspaper. They aren't an actual legitimate media company, seeking to embrace genuine journalism. They are nothing more than a propaganda arm of the Marxist-Globalist, Democrat party, like virtually all of the MSM.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 15, 2020, 10:04:57 AM
Greetings!

The New York Times is a totally Leftist newspaper. They aren't an actual legitimate media company, seeking to embrace genuine journalism. They are nothing more than a propaganda arm of the Marxist-Globalist, Democrat party, like virtually all of the MSM.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Remember kids, when everyone seems to be to the Left of your viewpoint, it's quite possibly a sign you're a Right-wing extremist.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 15, 2020, 11:19:32 AM
And while the children scream into the void, it seems the Antrim County (Michigan) audit dropped.

https://www.depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_[121320]_v2_[redacted].pdf

Goodness me. That looks bad.

I'll say! Somebody forgot to pay their hosting fees!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 15, 2020, 11:20:07 AM
Greetings!

The New York Times is a totally Leftist newspaper. They aren't an actual legitimate media company, seeking to embrace genuine journalism. They are nothing more than a propaganda arm of the Marxist-Globalist, Democrat party, like virtually all of the MSM.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Remember kids, when everyone seems to be to the Left of your viewpoint, it's quite possibly a sign you're a Right-wing extremist.

Well, to be honest, I am not particularly far to the right at all. I liked Obama, and I have often felt the Republicans' lack in interest in environmental issues, or their former support of things like creationism (well, many of them, not all), and sometimes hard-line ideas on abortion have made them unappealing. But recently, the left leaning bent of MOST of the media has been so blatant and over-the-top, that it resembles a borderline brain-washing attempt on the American people. It has been downright ludicrous at times, and almost comical if it were not so serious.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 15, 2020, 11:20:24 AM

https://swp59.wordpress.com/2020/12/09/cdc-plans-covid-gulag-an-unspecified-number-of-americans-will-be-classified-as-high-risk-for-covid-19-in-2021-and-sent-willing-or-unwilling-to-internment-camps-until-such-time-as-the-government/

A WordPress blog written by a woman who, the day after writing this ridiculous post, urged her readers to check out The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. Are you serious? Are you a diagnosed schizophrenic? Serious question, I'm not even taking the piss. Because your posts are really... something.

Also bookmarking the garbage about Gulags so I can laugh at it again later.
GOTCHA!

(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/dancing-monkey-gif-1.gif)

"Joke's on him, I was just pretending..."

Uh-huh. Right.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 15, 2020, 11:32:24 AM
And while the children scream into the void, it seems the Antrim County (Michigan) audit dropped.

https://www.depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_[121320]_v2_[redacted].pdf

Goodness me. That looks bad.
Looks like a 404 error to me. So, a lot of nothing. Again.
And while the children scream into the void, it seems the Antrim County (Michigan) audit dropped.

https://www.depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_[121320]_v2_[redacted].pdf

Goodness me. That looks bad.

I'll say! Somebody forgot to pay their hosting fees!
The link is bad, because the board software is parsing the square brackets in the URL incorrectly. But the URL is just fine. Cut & paste the actual text.

Code: [Select]
https://www.depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_[121320]_v2_[redacted].pdf
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 15, 2020, 11:34:33 AM
Thank you Pat. I didn't realize the frelling board software was leftist too. LOL.

EDIT: Dropbox link. https://www.dropbox.com/s/zberuyi1klkpah3/Antrim_michigan_forensics_report_121320_redacted.pdf?dl=0

Tell me more about how the fraud is only in our heads.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 15, 2020, 12:28:59 PM
True to form, Trump is fundraising on the backs of Perdue and Loeffler's senate runoff, and keeping all of the money. Something, something, fool and his money...

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-pocketing-georgia-senate-runoff-donations-report-pac-money-2020-12
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 15, 2020, 12:49:18 PM
Very busy atm, so responses to the other posts at me will have to wait

Lots of unusual stuff dripping this week.  The CEO of overstock made some allegations that are interestingly timed.  Wikileaks had a massive drop today after there being an assertion yesterday that assange would be pardoned (prior to the withdrawal of that assertion) just before Barr resigned

https://twitter.com/rothbard1776/status/1338764903876792321?s=21

https://twitter.com/rothbard1776/status/1338858298557095950?s=21

https://twitter.com/j0hnasmith/status/1338898948493357056?s=21

One advantage in dragging this out is more and more GOP in gov are coming out for Biden.  Clarity.  Dem pols never did that for Trump, toed the party rhetorical line.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 15, 2020, 01:04:59 PM
Lots of unusual stuff dripping this week.

Insert lewd joke here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on December 15, 2020, 01:07:42 PM
https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/dominion-audit-ballot-contains-bad-news-error-rate-least-85000-times-higher-fec-allows?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1J70oR5oc_lFkuuUzR3vs1_YXgjeDga59Tg-ZHIbqm9hCLeNdkmMhJGIc

These audit results, if correct, tell a very damning story of all those involved with Dominion and it's subsidiaries...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 15, 2020, 01:10:11 PM
No Court, not one single Court, has found the Dominion claims to be legitimate.

We're well past "This guy says it's an issue, and wrote a report on it being an issue, so it must be an issue". We've had over 50 Court cases with lots and lots and lots of opportunities to present it to an objective decisionmaker in accordance with our state and federal laws.

The Report appears to depend on false and misleading data and assumptions. (https://www.record-eagle.com/news/local_news/state-officials-texas-firms-report-relies-on-false-claims-in-antrim-county-election-lawsuit/article_28b45918-3e2c-11eb-a281-8faf2b0daa1d.html)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on December 15, 2020, 01:11:34 PM
_v2_[redacted].pdf]Here is your link, functioning properly.  (https://www.depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_[121320)

Not for me it isn't... same 404 error.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 15, 2020, 01:12:12 PM
_v2_[redacted].pdf]Here is your link, functioning properly.  (https://www.depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_[121320)

Not for me it isn't... same 404 error.

Yup couldn't get it to work. Ah well.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 15, 2020, 01:21:05 PM
Lots of unusual stuff dripping this week.

Insert lewd joke here.
Make sure to bag it before insertion unless you want to be dripping afterward too.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 15, 2020, 01:23:02 PM
Yup couldn't get it to work. Ah well.
That's because the board software hides the markup codes it auto-inserts, so there's no way to manually go in and edit it. I'm sure there's a way to turn that off somewhere, but in the meantime, cut & paste:

Code: [Select]
https://www.depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_[121320]_v2_[redacted].pdf
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 15, 2020, 01:53:35 PM
No Court, not one single Court, has found the Dominion claims to be legitimate.

No Court, not one single Court, has investigated the claims, or even has the expertise necessary to investigate the machines, but they haven't called a tech expert to investigate them either.

It's almost like the courts don't want to look at the evidence.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 15, 2020, 02:02:15 PM
And while the children scream into the void, it seems the Antrim County (Michigan) audit dropped.

Quote
https://www.depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_[121320]_v2_[redacted].pdf

Goodness me. That looks bad.

EDIT: Evidently Deperno Law missed the memo that BBS software hates brackets in links. Copy and paste the link, don't try to click on it.

This is expert testimony from one witness - Russell James Ramsland. It is evidence, but like with any other witness, the ultimate question is how accurate and reliable his information is. I've looked over the current affidavit, but it's just a first scan. I find it quite believable that there were a ton of problems in Antrim County. The whole reason it was audited, after all, was there was a uniquely huge fuckup in its initial unofficial reporting, after all, that gave results off by thousands of votes.

That doesn't speak to Ramsland's reliability, though. Ramsland had an earlier affidavit here:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.283580/gov.uscourts.gand.283580.7.1_2.pdf

Since this other affidavit came in mid-November, others have had time to read it in more detail. In the latter (page 3), there are a list of Michigan precincts where supposedly there were over 100% voter turnout. However, those numbers are clearly wrong, since those precincts don't exist in Michigan. You can look them up yourself.

Now, just because there is a set of false data in the previous affidavit, that doesn't mean that his current affidavit on Antrim County is wrong - but it does go towards his reliability as an expert. I would look forward to other opinions on the subject, to compare to Ramsland.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 15, 2020, 02:09:46 PM
This is expert testimony from one witness - Russell James Ramsland.
One witness, with a political science degree and an MBA, talking about computer security issues. He's not qualified.

But his team may be, because he uses the royal "we" and mentions he "relied on the experts and resources" of Allied Security Operations Group. It would be good have more information on ASOG, and less on Ramsland. Can't find much about them, outside this report.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on December 15, 2020, 02:10:04 PM
No Court, not one single Court, has found the Dominion claims to be legitimate.

No Court, not one single Court, has investigated the claims, or even has the expertise necessary to investigate the machines, but they haven't called a tech expert to investigate them either.

It's almost like the courts don't want to look at the evidence.

Exactly this. You can't find facts or verify claims if you refuse to investigate at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 15, 2020, 02:26:39 PM
Well, when Plaintiffs continually refuse to allege fraud in court, there isn't much incentive to use public resources to investigate it. Maybe if one - one - lawyer on Team Trump would, you know, allege fraud in court, there'd be an investigation. But they won't, because lying to a judge gets you in trouble, unlike lying to the media.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 15, 2020, 02:41:55 PM
No Court, not one single Court, has found the Dominion claims to be legitimate.

No Court, not one single Court, has investigated the claims, or even has the expertise necessary to investigate the machines, but they haven't called a tech expert to investigate them either.

It's almost like the courts don't want to look at the evidence.

Visionstorm you should know that you dont have to investigate claims to prove fraud.  You just ask the CEO of Dominion and believe them when they say they are innocent.

That is the Bidan American way, cheat to win.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 15, 2020, 02:49:33 PM
Greetings!

The New York Times is a totally Leftist newspaper. They aren't an actual legitimate media company, seeking to embrace genuine journalism. They are nothing more than a propaganda arm of the Marxist-Globalist, Democrat party, like virtually all of the MSM.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Remember kids, when everyone seems to be to the Left of your viewpoint, it's quite possibly a sign you're a Right-wing extremist.

(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/dancing-monkey-gif-1.gif)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 15, 2020, 02:51:09 PM
No Court, not one single Court, has found the Dominion claims to be legitimate.

We're well past "This guy says it's an issue, and wrote a report on it being an issue, so it must be an issue". We've had over 50 Court cases with lots and lots and lots of opportunities to present it to an objective decisionmaker in accordance with our state and federal laws.

The Report appears to depend on false and misleading data and assumptions. (https://www.record-eagle.com/news/local_news/state-officials-texas-firms-report-relies-on-false-claims-in-antrim-county-election-lawsuit/article_28b45918-3e2c-11eb-a281-8faf2b0daa1d.html)

(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/dancing-monkey-gif-1.gif)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 15, 2020, 02:53:55 PM
No Court, not one single Court, has investigated the claims, or even has the expertise necessary to investigate the machines, but they haven't called a tech expert to investigate them either.

It's almost like the courts don't want to look at the evidence.

Exactly this. You can't find facts or verify claims if you refuse to investigate at all.

I am not a lawyer, but as I understand it, that's not how courts work. That is, the function of the court is to judge the *results* of investigation. The courts themselves don't assign investigators. In criminal law, for example, the police investigate and arrest a suspect, who is then charged by the District Attorney - and then the courts judge the results of that investigation.

For election, it would normally be state election commissions who would assign official investigators. Depending on state law, other elected state officials (like the Governor and/or Secretary of State) may also assign special investigators. And as far as I have seen, they have been investigating. State investigators have been going out and looking into all sorts of claimed problems. It is on the basis of the official investigators' reports that the commissions for each state have certified their election results. All of the states have investigated and certified their votes.

Also, the federal Department of Justice and FBI can investigate suspected criminal action to tamper with votes. And, again, they have investigated and not found anything. It was on the basis of investigations that former Attorney General Barr claimed that he had not found evidence of widespread fraud.

The problem isn't that investigations aren't being done. It's that whenever any investigation *doesn't* find fraud, it is claimed that the investigation is illegitimate and suspect - even if the investigation is by Republican officials or even by a Trump appointee. That limits the options. If all official investigators are contested, the courts still don't assign investigators - but rather give access to independent parties, and then the courts will judge the results of independent investigators compared to official investigators.

That's what happened in Antrim County, as I understand it - the court ordered that Trump's legal team be given a copy of all the machine data to investigate. Trump's team assigned Russell and ASOG, and they made their report. The court will now review both the official investigators' findiings and the ASOG investigation and make a ruling.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 15, 2020, 03:14:37 PM
No Court, not one single Court, has found the Dominion claims to be legitimate.

No Court, not one single Court, has investigated the claims, or even has the expertise necessary to investigate the machines, but they haven't called a tech expert to investigate them either.

It's almost like the courts don't want to look at the evidence.

No plaintiff has attempted to present it. It's almost like the plaintiff's know it's all bullshit intended for YouTube suckers only.

Again, it's been debunked. The "data" the report used was based on known human error which was corrected before the election. Machines are only as smart as the data inputted into them, and when the poll workers tested it by confusing the names, it accurately spit back out the names in the confused order. When they corrected it, it worked correctly. The report is failing to mention they are aware the mistake was safely corrected. Gee, I wonder why it would leave that fact out?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 15, 2020, 03:18:12 PM
McConnell congratulated Biden on his win. (https://apnews.com/article/mitch-mcconnell-congratulates-joe-biden-2ed09a34fbbc3342fe45c733ee0dd725)

Again, now what? Electors have voted for Biden and those votes were certified. House doesn't have the members in sufficient numbers to accept an alternate slate of electors. Courts have rejected claims. Safeharbor for elector slates has come and gone. What exactly is a remaining legal route to Trump remaining President?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 15, 2020, 03:37:39 PM
It would be very hard for say, financial fraud, to be asserted in court if no one but the suspect had access to the books.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 15, 2020, 03:47:56 PM
It would be very hard for say, financial fraud, to be asserted in court if no one but the suspect had access to the books.

What legal route remains for Trump to be sworn in as President at this point?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 15, 2020, 03:54:10 PM
Anyone who needs a laugh, check out the oblivious Trump supporting losers on social media who are wondering why they lost money they bet on Trump winning the election. Betfair has settled the bets. Trump didn't win. These poeple's denial is both sad and hilarious. I feel for the family members, especially kids, that will be affected by such fiscal irresponsibility. But not for the people who lost everything betting on a race they had limited information on. The funniest part? Betfair took over 600 million dollars worth of bets for Trump AFTER Nov. 3rd. Yeah, you read that right. These people are morons.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 15, 2020, 03:57:34 PM
It would be very hard for say, financial fraud, to be asserted in court if no one but the suspect had access to the books.

Be that as it may, it still takes more than suspicion to get that ball rolling, in any US court. Quite simply, Team Trump has repeatedly failed to meet even the minimal evidentiary standard to successfully BEGIN a case, let alone successfully argue one. This is not the fault of some vast, bipartisan conspiracy. This is because Team Trump has repeatedly admitted in court that they have no direct evidence of fraud to present to the court. Sure, they crow about it in the media. But before a judge, not so much. To believe the Trump Camp's empty bluster at this point is to be the most laughable kind of rube.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 15, 2020, 03:58:42 PM
Anyone who needs a laugh, check out the oblivious Trump supporting losers on social media who are wondering why they lost money they bet on Trump winning the election. Betfair has settled the bets. Trump didn't win. These poeple's denial is both sad and hilarious. I feel for the family members, especially kids, that will be affected by such fiscal irresponsibility. But not for the people who lost everything betting on a race they had limited information on. The funniest part? Betfair took over 600 million dollars worth of bets for Trump AFTER Nov. 3rd. Yeah, you read that right. These people are morons.

How much did you win?

I am guessing ONE BILLION DOLLARS?

(https://q3p9g6n2.rocketcdn.me/wp-content/ml-loads/2012/04/1-billion-dollars.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 15, 2020, 04:09:31 PM
Be that as it may, it still takes more than suspicion to get that ball rolling, in any US court. Quite simply, Team Trump has repeatedly failed to meet even the minimal evidentiary standard to successfully BEGIN a case, let alone successfully argue one. This is not the fault of some vast, bipartisan conspiracy. This is because Team Trump has repeatedly admitted in court that they have no direct evidence of fraud to present to the court. Sure, they crow about it in the media. But before a judge, not so much. To believe the Trump Camp's empty bluster at this point is to be the most laughable kind of rube.

Just out of curiosity, what is the minimum evidentiary standard to get the ball rolling for, say, a search warrant...or does it depend on the politics of the situation?

...asking for a friend...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 15, 2020, 04:09:41 PM
It would be very hard for say, financial fraud, to be asserted in court if no one but the suspect had access to the books.

But the parallel to what's being alleged here would be if the police have access to the books and check them, but the suspect's rival claims that the police are corrupt and failing to do their job.

The two main options are: (1) the rival calls on another agency to investigate the local police - like the Federal DOJ or FBI; or (2) the rival hires their own private investigators, and petitions the court to grant access. Both of these have been pursued, but none of them so far have resulted in any successful court decisions.

What legal route remains for Trump to be sworn in as President at this point?

Trump doesn't have the votes, but there can be objections in Congress to accepting the Electoral College votes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/14/us/politics/congress-election-role.html


Be that as it may, it still takes more than suspicion to get that ball rolling, in any US court. Quite simply, Team Trump has repeatedly failed to meet even the minimal evidentiary standard to successfully BEGIN a case, let alone successfully argue one. This is not the fault of some vast, bipartisan conspiracy. This is because Team Trump has repeatedly admitted in court that they have no direct evidence of fraud to present to the court. Sure, they crow about it in the media. But before a judge, not so much. To believe the Trump Camp's empty bluster at this point is to be the most laughable kind of rube.

To be clear - there *has* been investigation by official investigators. That's not generally motivated by Trump - that's just the regular election police whose job it is to look into problems. And they have not found widespread problems, though they have successfully arrested some people, like Robert Lynn in Forty Fort PA, who tried to register and vote as his dead mother.

Trump has brought forwards evidence in the form of eyewitnesses, and they have had hearings both in court, and in some special sessions from election boards and legislators. Eyewitnesses *are* direct evidence, but in this case, they have not been deemed as credible by the courts after the hearings.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 15, 2020, 04:30:25 PM
Anyone who needs a laugh, check out the oblivious Trump supporting losers on social media who are wondering why they lost money they bet on Trump winning the election. Betfair has settled the bets. Trump didn't win. These poeple's denial is both sad and hilarious. I feel for the family members, especially kids, that will be affected by such fiscal irresponsibility. But not for the people who lost everything betting on a race they had limited information on. The funniest part? Betfair took over 600 million dollars worth of bets for Trump AFTER Nov. 3rd. Yeah, you read that right. These people are morons.

How much did you win?

I am guessing ONE BILLION DOLLARS?

(https://q3p9g6n2.rocketcdn.me/wp-content/ml-loads/2012/04/1-billion-dollars.png)

I don't bet. Ever. But if I did, and lost my money on some stupid bullshit, I'd expect to be laughed at.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 15, 2020, 04:31:19 PM
Be that as it may, it still takes more than suspicion to get that ball rolling, in any US court. Quite simply, Team Trump has repeatedly failed to meet even the minimal evidentiary standard to successfully BEGIN a case, let alone successfully argue one. This is not the fault of some vast, bipartisan conspiracy. This is because Team Trump has repeatedly admitted in court that they have no direct evidence of fraud to present to the court. Sure, they crow about it in the media. But before a judge, not so much. To believe the Trump Camp's empty bluster at this point is to be the most laughable kind of rube.

Just out of curiosity, what is the minimum evidentiary standard to get the ball rolling for, say, a search warrant...or does it depend on the politics of the situation?

...asking for a friend...

Evidently higher than Team Trump can reach. Beyond that, you'd have to ask a lawyer. You don't need a law degree to see that a bipartisan judicial system has found nothing of substance in Trump's claims.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 15, 2020, 04:43:14 PM
Anyone who needs a laugh, check out the oblivious Trump supporting losers on social media who are wondering why they lost money they bet on Trump winning the election. Betfair has settled the bets. Trump didn't win. These poeple's denial is both sad and hilarious. I feel for the family members, especially kids, that will be affected by such fiscal irresponsibility. But not for the people who lost everything betting on a race they had limited information on. The funniest part? Betfair took over 600 million dollars worth of bets for Trump AFTER Nov. 3rd. Yeah, you read that right. These people are morons.

Naw I don't think it's funny. Much like I didn't think it was funny when betters were in disbelief when their bets on Hillary Clinton were loser bets 4 years ago. People losing money betting just isn't my type of humor.

In fact none of this is funny. Some people believed in Trump with all their hearts, and him losing isn't a funny thing. I voted Biden and support him, but it's still not pleasant when people are deeply disappointed, particularly in such a close election. In fact for a good chunk of people this was their very first presidential election vote. Them losing, and in this way, can't be fun and isn't funny. I just hope it doesn't deter them from voting in the future.

But then, this is the Internet, and showing compassion is considered a weakness. Which is stupid, but it's also reality.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 15, 2020, 04:54:07 PM
Anyone who needs a laugh, check out the oblivious Trump supporting losers on social media who are wondering why they lost money they bet on Trump winning the election. Betfair has settled the bets. Trump didn't win. These poeple's denial is both sad and hilarious. I feel for the family members, especially kids, that will be affected by such fiscal irresponsibility. But not for the people who lost everything betting on a race they had limited information on. The funniest part? Betfair took over 600 million dollars worth of bets for Trump AFTER Nov. 3rd. Yeah, you read that right. These people are morons.

(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/dancing-monkey-gif-1.gif)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 15, 2020, 05:09:35 PM
Evidently higher than Team Trump can reach. Beyond that, you'd have to ask a lawyer. You don't need a law degree to see that a bipartisan judicial system has found nothing of substance in Trump's claims.

As you do not have a law degree you can easily explain how the judge can find nothing of substance to Trumps claim if they refuse to hear the substance of the claim?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 15, 2020, 05:17:45 PM
Poor jeffy hasn't realized that more and more people are seeing that he's the monkey. What a sad little inbred bastard.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 15, 2020, 05:24:11 PM
Evidently higher than Team Trump can reach. Beyond that, you'd have to ask a lawyer. You don't need a law degree to see that a bipartisan judicial system has found nothing of substance in Trump's claims.

As you do not have a law degree you can easily explain how the judge can find nothing of substance to Trumps claim if they refuse to hear the substance of the claim?

Pretty simple, there's not even enough to convince the judge that there's a "there" there. It's really not hard to understand. And if you believe that there's a vast bipartisan conspiracy to perpetrate or at least cover up the greatest election fraud ever perpetrated in our nation's history, it doesn't matter what I, or anyone else, say, you simply won't be convinced.

I'm not here to reach people or change minds, I'm here to point and laugh.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 15, 2020, 05:25:47 PM
Anyone who needs a laugh, check out the oblivious Trump supporting losers on social media who are wondering why they lost money they bet on Trump winning the election. Betfair has settled the bets. Trump didn't win. These poeple's denial is both sad and hilarious. I feel for the family members, especially kids, that will be affected by such fiscal irresponsibility. But not for the people who lost everything betting on a race they had limited information on. The funniest part? Betfair took over 600 million dollars worth of bets for Trump AFTER Nov. 3rd. Yeah, you read that right. These people are morons.

(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/dancing-monkey-gif-1.gif)

The "Puppet Master" backpedal is really just this:

(https://img.fae.ro/67dfd1.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 15, 2020, 05:29:29 PM
It would be very hard for say, financial fraud, to be asserted in court if no one but the suspect had access to the books.

What legal route remains for Trump to be sworn in as President at this point?

The western democracies have established through precedent that any government overthrown outside of written election law by popular protest is legitimate and legal.

Would that happen?  I have no idea.  I am but a simple internet rube. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 15, 2020, 05:30:31 PM
Evidently higher than Team Trump can reach. Beyond that, you'd have to ask a lawyer. You don't need a law degree to see that a bipartisan judicial system has found nothing of substance in Trump's claims.

As you do not have a law degree you can easily explain how the judge can find nothing of substance to Trumps claim if they refuse to hear the substance of the claim?

The U.S. Supreme Court has not heard the substance of the Texas Attorney General's lawsuit. But there are a number of state courts which have heard and ruled on the substance of other lawsuits - from Trump's legal team as well as from Sidney Powell.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 15, 2020, 05:36:03 PM
Evidently higher than Team Trump can reach. Beyond that, you'd have to ask a lawyer. You don't need a law degree to see that a bipartisan judicial system has found nothing of substance in Trump's claims.

As you do not have a law degree you can easily explain how the judge can find nothing of substance to Trumps claim if they refuse to hear the substance of the claim?

Pretty simple, there's not even enough to convince the judge that there's a "there" there. It's really not hard to understand. And if you believe that there's a vast bipartisan conspiracy to perpetrate or at least cover up the greatest election fraud ever perpetrated in our nation's history, it doesn't matter what I, or anyone else, say, you simply won't be convinced.

I'm not here to reach people or change minds, I'm here to point and laugh.

So you cant explain, you can just point and laugh.

Sounds about right.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 15, 2020, 05:37:39 PM
Evidently higher than Team Trump can reach. Beyond that, you'd have to ask a lawyer. You don't need a law degree to see that a bipartisan judicial system has found nothing of substance in Trump's claims.

As you do not have a law degree you can easily explain how the judge can find nothing of substance to Trumps claim if they refuse to hear the substance of the claim?

The U.S. Supreme Court has not heard the substance of the Texas Attorney General's lawsuit. But there are a number of state courts which have heard and ruled on the substance of other lawsuits - from Trump's legal team as well as from Sidney Powell.


Yes, but none of those contained forensics from the voting machines, which weren’t made available until it was ordered in the Antrim case.  To this point they were essentially trying to prove it indirectly because that’s all they were allowed to do. 

My understanding from nothing more than internet commentary (so could be wrong) is that the judge in the Antrim audit case has allowed further discovery and trial based off the support provided from the limited audit.  We will see.

It will be curious what the DNI says.  It may be more of the same; it may be different.  We’ll see.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 15, 2020, 05:50:52 PM
Evidently higher than Team Trump can reach. Beyond that, you'd have to ask a lawyer. You don't need a law degree to see that a bipartisan judicial system has found nothing of substance in Trump's claims.

As you do not have a law degree you can easily explain how the judge can find nothing of substance to Trumps claim if they refuse to hear the substance of the claim?

Pretty simple, there's not even enough to convince the judge that there's a "there" there. It's really not hard to understand. And if you believe that there's a vast bipartisan conspiracy to perpetrate or at least cover up the greatest election fraud ever perpetrated in our nation's history, it doesn't matter what I, or anyone else, say, you simply won't be convinced.

I'm not here to reach people or change minds, I'm here to point and laugh.

So you cant explain, you can just point and laugh.

Sounds about right.

I did explain. There isn't enough to convince any court to pursue the matter any further than it has been. Again, it's not difficult.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 15, 2020, 05:54:01 PM
Evidently higher than Team Trump can reach. Beyond that, you'd have to ask a lawyer. You don't need a law degree to see that a bipartisan judicial system has found nothing of substance in Trump's claims.

As you do not have a law degree you can easily explain how the judge can find nothing of substance to Trumps claim if they refuse to hear the substance of the claim?

Pretty simple, there's not even enough to convince the judge that there's a "there" there. It's really not hard to understand. And if you believe that there's a vast bipartisan conspiracy to perpetrate or at least cover up the greatest election fraud ever perpetrated in our nation's history, it doesn't matter what I, or anyone else, say, you simply won't be convinced.

I'm not here to reach people or change minds, I'm here to point and laugh.

So you cant explain, you can just point and laugh.

Sounds about right.

I did explain. There isn't enough to convince any court to pursue the matter any further than it has been. Again, it's not difficult.
Good luck getting these fools to admit to themselves that their manchild emperor has no clothes, er...claims.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 15, 2020, 06:14:14 PM
I’ve never used a dominion voting machine so this is an honest question, perhaps someone here would know it’s answer.

“But the hand recount shows the paper ballots match and there was no fraud”.  I’ve heard this several times.  I’m trying to understand how this works in the minds of those saying it.

My assumption is the voter votes.  The machine prints out a receipt or something saying you voted X for president, Y for governor, Z for city council - whatever people/offices you voted for.  This way you, the voter, know your vote was received as you input it. 

Do you then turn this receipt in somewhere before you leave the polling place?  Or do you take it home with you?

If they order a hand recount are voters coming back in with the receipt they received at the time?  Or does the machine generate a new copy of the receipt that is counted without ever being verified by the voter?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 15, 2020, 06:19:46 PM
I’ve never used a dominion voting machine so this is an honest question, perhaps someone here would know it’s answer.

“But the hand recount shows the paper ballots match and there was no fraud”.  I’ve heard this several times.  I’m trying to understand how this works in the minds of those saying it.

My assumption is the voter votes.  The machine prints out a receipt or something saying you voted X for president, Y for governor, Z for city council - whatever people/offices you voted for.  This way you, the voter, know your vote was received as you input it. 

Do you then turn this receipt in somewhere before you leave the polling place?  Or do you take it home with you?

If they order a hand recount are voters coming back in with the receipt they received at the time?  Or does the machine generate a new copy of the receipt that is counted without ever being verified by the voter?
I don't know if they were Dominion brand, but the voting machines I'm familiar with never gave a receipt. They gave me a printed ballot, and sent me to a booth where I filled in all the rights ovals on a paper ballot. When I was done, they pointed me to the machine, where I inserted the ballot. I didn't do it this year, so I forget if it beeped or displayed a message or whatever, but basically it confirmed that the ballot was received and read. There was no receipt, no way to verify that the machine read the ovals correctly, nothing. Always left me a bit uneasy.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on December 15, 2020, 06:37:13 PM
It would be very hard for say, financial fraud, to be asserted in court if no one but the suspect had access to the books.

What legal route remains for Trump to be sworn in as President at this point?

Ah, I shall explain the process to you then. On January Sixth the President of the Senate (The Vice President, Mike Pence), unseals the submitted electoral reports from each state and counts them. Duplicate electoral results (such as found in EVERY contested state thus far except MI, where they were barred from entering the State Capital Building by the police (at the Governor's Orders) can be submitted and counted (as they have been).  There are any number of irregularities that can apply, and precedents for all of them.

At its most absurd, the VP could simply refuse to open any Electoral counts that he knows are for Biden and refuse to count them. I think at least that that particular absurdity has never been tried, but it remains within the realm of possibility.

If the VPs count is disputed then it goes to a vote in the House.. though the process for establishing a proper dispute is... unclear (Actually the entire act governing this is famously poorly written and is in all probability unconstitutional... but never mind that)... 

The issue I've seen here, however, is that this is not a 'vote of the House' in the traditional manner, but rather the House votes by State... that is EACH STATE ONLY GETS ONE VOTE. Why the House using this rule? Unclear, but the House is traditionally the People's representative, with the Senate being the more State reps, I'd guess?

While the House may have more Dems than Repubs in its current seated members (dunno... didn't look), there are more R states than D states by decent margin. 27 to 23 I believe?

So there are TWO legal paths right here, all resolved starting in January.  One: The VP counts the Electors he choses and comes up with a legal total of 270 for Trump (regarding that: recall that most contested states have now submitted two sets of electors, and yes: There is precedent for this with, as I recall, Rutherford B. Hayes...).

Second: After contesting the VPs count, the States vote in the House, where the R states outnumber the D states (again: Each state gets one vote, despite being,  you know, the House...).



EDIT: A link for futher reading, including many examples of times the rules simply didn't count.  As I have said repeated in this thread: Nothing about this is new.  Only our limited view of History makes it seem so.

https://macris.substack.com/p/if-chaos-is-a-ladder-americas-election
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 15, 2020, 06:50:39 PM
It would be very hard for say, financial fraud, to be asserted in court if no one but the suspect had access to the books.

What legal route remains for Trump to be sworn in as President at this point?

Ah, I shall explain the process to you then. On January Sixth the President of the Senate (The Vice President, Mike Pence), unseals the submitted electoral reports from each state and counts them. Duplicate electoral results (such as found in EVERY contested state thus far except MI, where they were barred from entering the State Capital Building by the police (at the Governor's Orders) can be submitted and counted (as they have been).  There are any number of irregularities that can apply, and precedents for all of them.

At its most absurd, the VP could simply refuse to open any Electoral counts that he knows are for Biden and refuse to count them. I think at least that that particular absurdity has never been tried, but it remains within the realm of possibility.

If the VPs count is disputed then it goes to a vote in the House.. though the process for establishing a proper dispute is... unclear (Actually the entire act governing this is famously poorly written and is in all probability unconstitutional... but never mind that)... 

The issue I've seen here, however, is that this is not a 'vote of the House' in the traditional manner, but rather the House votes by State... that is EACH STATE ONLY GETS ONE VOTE. Why the House using this rule? Unclear, but the House is traditionally the People's representative, with the Senate being the more State reps, I'd guess?

While the House may have more Dems than Repubs in its current seated members (dunno... didn't look), there are more R states than D states by decent margin. 27 to 23 I believe?

So there are TWO legal paths right here, all resolved starting in January.  One: The VP counts the Electors he choses and comes up with a legal total of 270 for Trump (regarding that: recall that most contested states have now submitted two sets of electors, and yes: There is precedent for this with, as I recall, Rutherford B. Hayes...).

Second: After contesting the VPs count, the States vote in the House, where the R states outnumber the D states (again: Each state gets one vote, despite being,  you know, the House...).



EDIT: A link for futher reading, including many examples of times the rules simply didn't count.  As I have said repeated in this thread: Nothing about this is new.  Only our limited view of History makes it seem so.

https://macris.substack.com/p/if-chaos-is-a-ladder-americas-election
How many of the R states have already acknowledged Biden as the president-elect and might not go along with such shenanigans?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 15, 2020, 06:58:56 PM
Man, that would be some great clarity for R voters in those states, wouldn’t it?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on December 15, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
How many of the R states have already acknowledged Biden as the president-elect and might not go along with such shenanigans?

Well, we'll all have to wait until my birthday, won't we?   I like history, I don't pretend to predict the future, you simply asked how, and I offered two legally possible answers.

If I recall correctly at any point in this process someone (the House, I think?) can simply decide to elect Me for President, though I didn't run, was not on any ballot, and would inagurate my reign with bloodshed on a nigh unimaginable scale, seeing how much I hate humanity... and it would be completely legal....


....


... excuse me, I've got some little birdies to whisper into the ears of. I'll be right back.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Jaeger on December 15, 2020, 07:30:26 PM
Good thing to know that with all the craziness that will be going on between now and the 20th that we can rely on the mainstream media to deliver objective and unbiased reporting...

(https://i.ma.ga/yfVFp.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 15, 2020, 07:34:43 PM
I’ve never used a dominion voting machine so this is an honest question, perhaps someone here would know it’s answer.

“But the hand recount shows the paper ballots match and there was no fraud”.  I’ve heard this several times.  I’m trying to understand how this works in the minds of those saying it.

My assumption is the voter votes.  The machine prints out a receipt or something saying you voted X for president, Y for governor, Z for city council - whatever people/offices you voted for.  This way you, the voter, know your vote was received as you input it. 

Do you then turn this receipt in somewhere before you leave the polling place?  Or do you take it home with you?

If they order a hand recount are voters coming back in with the receipt they received at the time?  Or does the machine generate a new copy of the receipt that is counted without ever being verified by the voter?

Dominion produces a number of different models of voting machines, which are used in different states and sometimes in different precincts of the states. Different models work differently. However, a receipt is *always* kept only in the polling place. The whole intent of secret voting is that once you vote, no one can associate the ballot with you. If you could take the receipt home, then someone could bribe you or threaten you to vote a certain way, and demand the receipt as proof. No one - not even the election officials - should be able to know how an individual voted, and the individual cannot prove how they voted.

Once secret voting happens, there is no way to associate which ballot is associated with which voter. So there's no way for a voter to come back in and confirm their ballot choices, because no one can point to which ballot is theirs. The only way to completely redo is to hold another election.

Hand recounts are conducted with the paper ballots. They are confirming that the paper ballots add up the way that the scans say they did, and that the totals across different precincts were done correctly. In the case of Georgia, they're using a Ballot-Marking Device (BMD). The voter enters their choices on a machine. The machine prints out a ballot, the voter checks it. The voter then puts the paper in the scanner, and it is only the scanned paper ballot that is counted. The scanned ballot is left there for later recount.

Here's an explanatory video for Georgia:

https://www.wabe.org/georgia-voting-machines/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 15, 2020, 09:26:30 PM
So NYT is not left-leaning now. Well, I think you lost all credibility a long time ago anyway.

Couldn't back up your position, huh?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 15, 2020, 09:41:08 PM
At its most absurd, the VP could simply refuse to open any Electoral counts that he knows are for Biden and refuse to count them. I think at least that that particular absurdity has never been tried, but it remains within the realm of possibility.

Since the law says the votes "shall be opened, presented, and acted upon in the alphabetical order of the States" I presume that at worst members of Congress could get a writ of mandamus from an appropriate court to compel this. I don't think Pence is so committed as to do anything absurd. And it seems unlikely that the Senate would approve of such antics, with only a slight Republican majority, some of whom long ago acknowledged Biden's victory.

Quote
If the VPs count is disputed then it goes to a vote in the House.. though the process for establishing a proper dispute is... unclear (Actually the entire act governing this is famously poorly written and is in all probability unconstitutional... but never mind that)... 

The issue I've seen here, however, is that this is not a 'vote of the House' in the traditional manner, but rather the House votes by State... that is EACH STATE ONLY GETS ONE VOTE. Why the House using this rule? Unclear, but the House is traditionally the People's representative, with the Senate being the more State reps, I'd guess?

This is incorrect; the one-vote-per-state-delegation rule from the Constitution only applies if nobody has a majority of the electoral votes. The 1877 law provides both the "safe harbor" which almost all states (a sufficient number for Biden to reach 270 votes) met, so that alternate electors will be rejected unless an objection is agreed upon by both House and Senate separately. That vote is the usual majority vote, and the House will presumably not approve an objection to Biden electors (difficult to imagine what evidence would persuade the Democratic House to vote for Trump electors from a state that Biden won). (The safe harbor is significant because the electors so protected can only be thrown out if both chambers vote for an objection to them; if there were competing slates not so protected, then it might require that both chambers agree on which to count.)

The constitutionality of the Electoral Count Act of 1887 would probably only be contested if one party blatantly overturned the election by spuriously objecting to electoral votes. Note that the safe harbor provision effectively decided the 2000 election, and the Democrats did not challenge its constitutionality then. Note also that Mitch McConnell has been pressing Republican Senators not to sign objections (which require one Representative and one Senator - objections to Florida in 2000 went nowhere because no Senator signed on), because they would lose the vote in the House anyway but they don't want to go on the record themselves (a Democratic Senator like Manchin from a very pro-Trump  could cause some mischief by signing onto objections, just to force the roll call, although it doesn't seem likely).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 15, 2020, 09:50:24 PM
Hand recounts are conducted with the paper ballots. They are confirming that the paper ballots add up the way that the scans say they did, and that the totals across different precincts were done correctly. In the case of Georgia, they're using a Ballot-Marking Device (BMD). The voter enters their choices on a machine. The machine prints out a ballot, the voter checks it. The voter then puts the paper in the scanner, and it is only the scanned paper ballot that is counted. The scanned ballot is left there for later recount.

Here's an explanatory video for Georgia:

https://www.wabe.org/georgia-voting-machines/

Interesting video. In Georgia the voter enters their choices by touch screen, but it prints a ballot that they can review and which is then scanned. While the scanner is counting from the QR code, the printed ballot must have human readable information that the voter can review; I assume the hand recount used that, so any shenanigans with the QR code would presumably have been discovered. (But that's a fertile area for further conspiracy theories.)

Dominion's website (http://"https://www.dominionvoting.com/election2020-setting-the-record-straight/") specifically states that "Sharpie pens are safe and reliable to use on ballots. Election officials provide writing instruments approved for all in-person voters using hand-marked paper ballots. Dominion machines can read all these instruments, including Sharpies." So at least some states are using hand-marked paper ballots with Dominion machines, even if Georgia is not.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 15, 2020, 10:02:12 PM
If I recall correctly at any point in this process someone (the House, I think?) can simply decide to elect Me for President, though I didn't run, was not on any ballot, and would inagurate my reign with bloodshed on a nigh unimaginable scale, seeing how much I hate humanity... and it would be completely legal....

The 12th Amendment has the House choosing the President and the Senate choosing the Vice-President, if nobody gets a majority of electoral votes in each case. But they can only choose among the top three for President and the top two for Vice-President, so you'd presumably need at least one electoral vote before you could implement your scheme.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 15, 2020, 10:31:45 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Mq1VImQ.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 15, 2020, 11:07:01 PM
CONCOMMS:
From what I've been reading lately, THE FIGHT has just begun...
How do you save a nation?
Think information warfare.
Think disinformation.
Think MSM. SM. TECH.
Think Culture War.
Why?
CCP Money? Investment? Blackmail?
Why are those who claim to be ANTI-CORPORATE, PRO-LIBERTY, PRO-DEMOCRACY fighting against ANYONE who questions BIG BUSINESS/CORPORATOCRACY?
Do their loyalties fall short when COMMUNISTS DO IT? Was that always the case?
Are BIG BUSINESS, MSM, NATIONAL BANKS influenced by CCP?
WHAT IS THE END GAME?
Think Rationally and logically.
Who stands to gain if USA falls?
What happens when the TRUTH RISES ABOVE THE LIES?
=============================

From: The Frontline Legislative Journal 
https://mailchi.mp/ddbd6be3bb22/first-issue-of-the-finchem-frontline-journal-1134289
December 15, 2020- "Subpoenas issued! Finally we will gain visibility into what happened in the Maricopa County election, which affects the entire state because of population concentration." - Representative Mark Finchem, 54th Legislature, House of Representatives. All hands are working dilegently to ensure the fair and impartial vote count can be completed. The Legislature may have to step in, but we must observe the rule of law as we act as swiftly as possible. We have many steps yet to be taken, we mustn't rush through any of them least we damage the process that we rely on to make certain that we have a fair and impartial election.

How does Solar Winds Hacking & Election connect?
From: The Network Security Monkey ~ https://twitter.com/Netguy73/status/1338675924401733632
And the backdoor is still open, apparently? https://twitter.com/JohnBasham/status/1338707319123795973
Hmm... It is interesting though, especially with PATRIOTS WATCHING THE SITES: https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1338850031445536769

Whatever happened to Trump's promise to "LOCK HER/THEM UP?"
https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1338715369566048256

And, TEXAS votes for Trump and then CONDEMNS SCOTUS: https://twitter.com/wesrap/status/1338653200753242112

Of course BIDEN is NOT P-Elect yet: https://twitter.com/amuse/status/1338590704885506053
Will this bored EVER get it's DAMN STATISTICS AND FANCIFUL FACTS correct?!

While Joe Biden won Monday’s electoral college vote 306-232, Trump electors in several states also met, casting their votes for the president anyway, before sending them to Congress. According to White House senior adviser Stephen Miller, Trump’s team plans to support this “alternate” set of electors in key states won by Biden as a means to preserve legal remedies in the event any of the remaining legal challenges: “This will ensure that all of our legal remedies remain open.”

I disagree with his assessment though: https://twitter.com/aaronjcarpenter/status/1326305806535565313
SCOTUS will prove to be filled with GLOBALIST CABALIST SWAMP THINGS, and will NOT swing for Trump! The LIST OF TRAITORS will grow longer!!

Then there is this about BILL BARR:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1338614499981602819
judging by the letter that AG Barr wrote  it looks like he left on good terms. Also of note, he wrote: “I will spend the next week wrapping up a few remaining matters important to the Administration.” He didn’t actually say he resigns!

Barr played his role.
1. He came in because Session recused himself and he had no power because Rosenstein was in control, Barr came in and took control of the Mueller investigation
2. Worked with Durham
3. Cleaned out the DOJ
4. Made Durham A Special Counsel before he leaves. Which allows Durham to work independently, has the ability to prosecute and to add prosecutors to his team.

What do the CONSPIRACY THEORISTS say about all this? https://twitter.com/prayingmedic/status/1338830475285032960
So, what?
https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/remarks-deputy-attorney-general-jeffrey-rosen-malign-foreign-influence-us-elections
"We are also concerned about another threat, known as malign foreign influence.  The key word is “influence.”  Much of the time that is disguised propaganda.  Other times, it is using pressure tactics on influential people.  It can also take the form of hacking and disclosing private emails or phone messages.  It comes in many different forms, all designed to influence how Americans think about issues and cast their votes.  There are good lists of these on the FBI and ODNI websites.
We cannot escape the reality that the opportunities for malign foreign influence in our elections are far-flung, so it remains a challenge for Americans as voters.  That didn’t end in 2016.  But it didn’t begin in 2016, either.  Malign foreign influence efforts have been a longstanding concern in American elections, and that historical context can teach us some lessons.  I’d like to use these remarks first to discuss some of this historical context, then to offer a few comparisons with what we’ve seen more recently, and finally to share a little advice we can borrow from our predecessors."
Oh, so that's what...
I wonder how many dancing monkeys it takes to fit on the head of a PIN?
I'll leave that question to better minds! ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on December 15, 2020, 11:13:15 PM


The 12th Amendment has the House choosing the President and the Senate choosing the Vice-President, if nobody gets a majority of electoral votes in each case. But they can only choose among the top three for President and the top two for Vice-President, so you'd presumably need at least one electoral vote before you could implement your scheme.

Ah well, I'll have to save the bloodshed for another day.








I can wait.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 16, 2020, 12:13:57 AM


The 12th Amendment has the House choosing the President and the Senate choosing the Vice-President, if nobody gets a majority of electoral votes in each case. But they can only choose among the top three for President and the top two for Vice-President, so you'd presumably need at least one electoral vote before you could implement your scheme.

Ah well, I'll have to save the bloodshed for another day.








I can wait.

There's this cool thing called role-playing games where you can engage in lots of bloodshed, and you could justify it as simulation exercises in preparation for the real thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 16, 2020, 02:43:05 AM
Anyone who needs a laugh, check out the oblivious Trump supporting losers on social media who are wondering why they lost money they bet on Trump winning the election. Betfair has settled the bets. Trump didn't win. These poeple's denial is both sad and hilarious. I feel for the family members, especially kids, that will be affected by such fiscal irresponsibility. But not for the people who lost everything betting on a race they had limited information on. The funniest part? Betfair took over 600 million dollars worth of bets for Trump AFTER Nov. 3rd. Yeah, you read that right. These people are morons.

(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/dancing-monkey-gif-1.gif)

Fap Fap Fap

Poor jeffy hasn't realized that more and more people are seeing that he's the monkey. What a sad little inbred bastard.

I may be the monkey yet HappyDaze, Tubesock Army, and rawma still continue to dance!

I like the "sad little inbred bastard" RREEEEE, though. First insult you've handed out that gets more than a failing grade.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 16, 2020, 03:10:35 AM
Greetings!

Will Johnson, of Unite America First, interviews two women about the 2020 election. These women are beautiful!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 16, 2020, 05:47:07 AM
The electric voting seems ripe for fraud to me.  Any digital voting that is secret is.  I think we need to either have physical ballots only and secret voting, or non-secret digital voting.  But not digital voting where the vote is akin to placing an order at a McDonald’s kiosk.

It *is* crazy to think that after illegally spying on a campaign, the DOJ looking the other way for 4 years while never bring charges against any real players, the GOP senate never allowing recess appointments to its own party member/sitting president, China’s foreign currency reserves depending on reversal of trade policies, Hunter’s domestic currency reserves depending on a reversal of trade policies, the Bush GOP declaring political war on its own party president over lost profits from labor cost arbitrage, Schumer threatening Trump that the intel community will get you if you don’t play their tune, the open fact we use the CIA to manipulate elections in other countries to tilt the scale towards the favored candidate, that the Dems were already rigging their own primaries for two election cycles, and the prize for winning being picking winners in a $25 trillion economy, that people think the oppositions would do and could do something like this

It’s almost as crazy as thinking surveillance tools that are illegal to use domestically would be so used, even after officials go before Congress and swear that’s just not true because they have a system in place to prevent that very thing
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 16, 2020, 06:35:29 AM
The electric voting seems ripe for fraud to me.  Any digital voting that is secret is.  I think we need to either have physical ballots only and secret voting, or non-secret digital voting.  But not digital voting where the vote is akin to placing an order at a McDonald’s kiosk.

It *is* crazy to think that after illegally spying on a campaign, the DOJ looking the other way for 4 years while never bring charges against any real players, the GOP senate never allowing recess appointments to its own party member/sitting president, China’s foreign currency reserves depending on reversal of trade policies, Hunter’s domestic currency reserves depending on a reversal of trade policies, the Bush GOP declaring political war on its own party president over lost profits from labor cost arbitrage, Schumer threatening Trump that the intel community will get you if you don’t play their tune, the open fact we use the CIA to manipulate elections in other countries to tilt the scale towards the favored candidate, that the Dems were already rigging their own primaries for two election cycles, and the prize for winning being picking winners in a $25 trillion economy, that people think the oppositions would do and could do something like this

It’s almost as crazy as thinking surveillance tools that are illegal to use domestically would be so used, even after officials go before Congress and swear that’s just not true because they have a system in place to prevent that very thing

Greetings!

Exactly, EOTB! All of your points are right on target! But somehow, we are "Conspiracy Theory Nutters"!!! ;D

Your commentary here reminds me of an earlier commentary that you made where you discussed the idea of a "Preponderance of Evidence." I agree with that, and that is the way I see it. I don't need to be a cyber warfare expert, or a lawyer, or whatever. Any one detail or elements of one kind of detail may be more or less accurate--but taken as a whole, all of it, it all adds up to our election being fucked with by the Democrats, and no doubt also by foreign agents--like Communist China--and influence, bribery, blackmail, and other subversion through money--from Communist China, and those citizens on the take from a wide variety of organizations and industries. This is the most disgusting, corrupt, and fraudulent election I have seen here in America in my life. Right in front of us, all around. But for four years now the Democrats insisted that there was "Russian Collusion!" with President Trump--with zero evidence whatsoever. But here in this Presidential election, with all of these details, all of these affidavits and witnesses, all of these testimonies, all of the cyber warfare and mathematical analysis saying something terrible has been going on here--no, no. There's nothing to see here. The MSM brays like a robot mantra in every article on *anything*--always mentioning there's no evidence, there's no substantial evidence, there's no fraud at all--all being shoved down the throats of Americans at every opportunity. Meanwhile, Big Tech engages in outright censorship, deplatforming, and blacklisting anyone that says anything THEY don't agree with. All while corrupt judges, lawyers, and cock-sucking politicians refuse to look at real evidence, refuse to engage in any genuine investigation, and reee about how there is no fraud to see here, everything is fine.

So tragic and sad, my friend.

Justice doesn't sleep, and the traitors will be brought into the light. Like some others have commented, this has gone beyond President Trump. MILLIONS of Americans are furious, and demand justice, and judgment. I have seen more and more Americans encouraging the President to declare Martial Law, invoke the Insurrection Act, and do whatever it takes to save the Republic, to preserve the Union. More Americans are declaring that this fraud and treason shall not stand, and they refuse to bow down or submit to an illegitimate government that has subverted our Republic.

It is mind boggling to witness our Republic unravelling and teetering towards the Abyss of Chaos and the yawning maw of Socialism. I read where some people were saying it is better to have Martial Law under President Trump than Socialism under Biden! Who knows what will happen. I continue to pray for our Republic fervently, every day. America must stand, and America must remain free.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Abraxus on December 16, 2020, 08:19:02 AM
I am surprised neither side has commented on how once Biden went into office how suddenly and completely the Thugtifa and BLM protests stopped overnight. I mean I am sure it is a complete and utter coincidence almost the day after Biden won. Same thing in my neck of the woods. Or the yellow leftist media is no longer reporting on them since it's not part of the narrative they want to push.

It does not look really good for the legitimacy of both groups. So your cause is important as long as Trump was in the office. Now that chances are good he won't be reelected. Who cares about Floyd or social inequality at least Trump is out of office am I right.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 16, 2020, 08:25:24 AM
I am surprised neither side has commented on how once Biden went into office how suddenly and completely the Thugtifa and BLM protests stopped overnight. I mean I am sure it is a complete and utter coincidence almost the day after Biden won. Same thing in my neck of the woods. Or the yellow leftist media is no longer reporting on them since it's not part of the narrative they want to push.

It does not look really good for the legitimacy of both groups. So your cause is important as long as Trump was in the office. Now that chances are good he won't be reelected. Who cares about Floyd or social inequality at least Trump is out of office am I right.
Not totally. However, it does seem that BLM/Antifa will be told to 'get back on the shelf' as their demands to meet with Bidenharris have been ignored.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 16, 2020, 08:27:53 AM
I am surprised neither side has commented on how once Biden went into office how suddenly and completely the Thugtifa and BLM protests stopped overnight. I mean I am sure it is a complete and utter coincidence almost the day after Biden won. Same thing in my neck of the woods. Or the yellow leftist media is no longer reporting on them since it's not part of the narrative they want to push.

It does not look really good for the legitimacy of both groups. So your cause is important as long as Trump was in the office. Now that chances are good he won't be reelected. Who cares about Floyd or social inequality at least Trump is out of office am I right.
Gotta admit, it has been unusually quiet on that front. Not sure if no protests are happening, or if it's just not getting aggressively reported on like it was in the summer. In central Florida, we haven't had any big protests in several months (stopped well before the election).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 16, 2020, 08:29:11 AM
I am surprised neither side has commented on how once Biden went into office how suddenly and completely the Thugtifa and BLM protests stopped overnight. I mean I am sure it is a complete and utter coincidence almost the day after Biden won. Same thing in my neck of the woods. Or the yellow leftist media is no longer reporting on them since it's not part of the narrative they want to push.

It does not look really good for the legitimacy of both groups. So your cause is important as long as Trump was in the office. Now that chances are good he won't be reelected. Who cares about Floyd or social inequality at least Trump is out of office am I right.

Just last weekend BLM clashed with Proud Boys in DC and elsewhere, with people getting stabbed and shot.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 16, 2020, 08:32:54 AM
I am surprised neither side has commented on how once Biden went into office how suddenly and completely the Thugtifa and BLM protests stopped overnight. I mean I am sure it is a complete and utter coincidence almost the day after Biden won. Same thing in my neck of the woods. Or the yellow leftist media is no longer reporting on them since it's not part of the narrative they want to push.

It does not look really good for the legitimacy of both groups. So your cause is important as long as Trump was in the office. Now that chances are good he won't be reelected. Who cares about Floyd or social inequality at least Trump is out of office am I right.

Just last weekend BLM clashed with Proud Boys in DC and elsewhere, with people getting stabbed and shot.
The little I read about that really focused in on the violence between the two groups and spent very little time talking about what each group was doing there before the stabbing and shooting. I guess the press must figure everyone is already set on the background narrative they want, so they only go with the action bits now. Quite different than this spring & summer where (varying versions) of the George Floyd story were retold in every article about a protest.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 16, 2020, 09:30:23 AM
So NYT is not left-leaning now. Well, I think you lost all credibility a long time ago anyway.

Couldn't back up your position, huh?

You can just google it, it’s known by virtually everyone.

But I’m cautious about debating people who seem to have psychological meltdowns online.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 16, 2020, 09:31:39 AM
So NYT is not left-leaning now. Well, I think you lost all credibility a long time ago anyway.

Couldn't back up your position, huh?

You can just google it, it’s known by virtually everyone.

But I’m cautious about debating people who seem to have psychological meltdowns online.
Must be a slow week for the HappyDaze grift.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 16, 2020, 09:43:21 AM
Has Trump said anything about the cyberattack we just suffered? Is he even pretending to care about his office or the American public anymore?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 16, 2020, 10:13:23 AM
It was the Treasury Department. Nobody cares about them anyways :)

In all seriousness, though, if the 2015 OPM hack wasn't enough to get the feds to tighten the fuck up, nothing will. Not Trump, not Biden, hell, I doubt God could convince some of those feckless incompetents to practice good IT security.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 16, 2020, 01:58:41 PM
The electric voting seems ripe for fraud to me.  Any digital voting that is secret is.  I think we need to either have physical ballots only and secret voting, or non-secret digital voting.  But not digital voting where the vote is akin to placing an order at a McDonald’s kiosk.

It sounds like you're talking about voting where there's an electronic record that gets copied around. That's known as Direct Recording Electronic (DRE) voting -- and I agree that it is a bad idea.

There should be physical paper ballots such that we can do a hand count of the paper ballots as a cross-check. But that's what the current Georgia system is. In the current Georgia system, the voter turns in a physical paper ballot, and the paper ballot is the only thing used to determine the result. The counts can all be confirmed by doing a hand count of the paper ballots. I think that's good design, and it was specifically introduced to *replace* the previous DRE system that Georgia used to have because of similar complaints.

If you're talking about abandoning all electricity and only doing hand-counts of paper ballots - that seems backwards to me, and liable to result in more errors and problems. Having both hand-count and optical scan to cross-check is a useful cross-check.


It *is* crazy to think (...) that the Dems were already rigging their own primaries for two election cycles, and the prize for winning being picking winners in a $25 trillion economy, that people think the oppositions would do and could do something like this

If you're complaining about electronic-only voting, it's primarily the southern Republican states that are using DRE systems. In the map below, the grey areas are using DRE systems. Note that this map is from 2016, and Georgia replaced its former DRE system with the new paper scan system.

(https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/11/07164119/FT_16.11.07_votingTechnology.png)
Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/08/on-election-day-most-voters-use-electronic-or-optical-scan-ballots/

Most Democrat-controlled states have been more wary of DRE systems, and prefer optical scan of paper ballots.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 16, 2020, 02:55:08 PM
Has Trump said anything about the cyberattack we just suffered? Is he even pretending to care about his office or the American public anymore?

Was there any evidence of a "cyberattack"?

I am waiting for the Supreme Court before believing that happened.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 16, 2020, 02:57:25 PM
I don't know why you keep pointing out what states buy these systems as if it matters.  If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm one of the guys saying the GOP and dems are two wings of the same globalist uniparty.  Which is why everything moves in one direction over the past 50 years regardless of what party is elected.

No I'm talking about any system that creates a digitized ballot. 

The antrim audit talked about a 68% error rate.  The nevada audit mentioned about 70%.  That's right in line with what the Fulton County GA Elections Director admits to in his own news conference discussing absentee ballots.

https://twitter.com/MichaelCoudrey/status/1338977383202783232?s=20

"We've scanned 113,130 ballots and adjudicated <106,000"  0:00 - 0:10 of video

That's over a 90% error rate, as the term error rate is used in the audit reports - a situation where the scan of the ballot is kicked out for manual review

"the only (ha - ed) ballots that are adjudicated are if we have a ballot with a contest on it, in which there's some question as to how the computer reads it, so the vote review panel then determines voter intent"

If the digital system required a manual determination of voter intent then its a pointless, expensive system with new vulnerabilities not present if limited to only reviewing physical objects that are hard to manipulate. 

Here is what a Dominion adjudication process looks like.  The scan of the physical ballot can be adjusted as needed by the adjudicator.  The scan that is saved is the manipulated scan. 

https://rumble.com/vbrtxz-dominion-ballot-change-walkthrough.html

The edit logs of what would have been done in this process demonstrated in the video, is what the audits say are missing from the machines that shouldn't be missing.  The physical ballots were in many cases sent for shredding right after the election was over.

No, I think we need to keep the original voting processes we used before electronic voting machines began being used.

 

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on December 16, 2020, 03:32:33 PM
Has Trump said anything about the cyberattack we just suffered? Is he even pretending to care about his office or the American public anymore?
Why would he start now? He's far too busy conning the rubes to get some more money.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 16, 2020, 04:40:52 PM
If the digital system required a manual determination of voter intent then its a pointless, expensive system with new vulnerabilities not present if limited to only reviewing physical objects that are hard to manipulate. 

Here is what a Dominion adjudication process looks like.  The scan of the physical ballot can be adjusted as needed by the adjudicator.  The scan that is saved is the manipulated scan.
No, I think we need to keep the original voting processes we used before electronic voting machines began being used. 

It sounds like you consider it a problem in scanning a physical ballot if the count can be manually altered by an adjudicator. By calling a manual adjudication "manipulated", it sounds like you consider that adjudication to be suspicious and untrustworthy. But then you're advocating an older system where a manual adjudicator is *always* deciding the results.

I think the real root problem is that you don't trust the election system in the first place. If you don't trust the people who put in the machines, why would you trust the same people to manually count the results?

I approve of paper forms, but one inherent problem is that some voters won't fill it in correctly. They'll write in the wrong place, or choose the wrong number of options, or other errors. That always produces some ambiguous results, regardless of whether a machine is used or not. This problem is why we started using mechanical voting machines starting in the 1890s -- the old lever-pull that produces a punch card, where you can't pull the lever unless all the proper choices are made. But mechanical voting machines can have their own problems, like hanging chads that became famous in the 2000 election. Punch cards were abandoned after 2000 because of this.


https://rumble.com/vbrtxz-dominion-ballot-change-walkthrough.html

The edit logs of what would have been done in this process demonstrated in the video, is what the audits say are missing from the machines that shouldn't be missing.  The physical ballots were in many cases sent for shredding right after the election was over.

According to federal law, paper ballots for any federal election must be kept for 22 months after the election is over. If you have any links about the supposed immediate shredding of ballots, I'd want to see them.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 16, 2020, 04:52:41 PM
It sounds like you should re-read that post because your summation is off - just as it was the previous summation I didn’t respond to the other day for lack of time.  And I’m not a link service.  You know how to use the Internet.  I’m not trying to change your mind at the crowder table.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 16, 2020, 05:39:50 PM
So NYT is not left-leaning now. Well, I think you lost all credibility a long time ago anyway.

Couldn't back up your position, huh?

You can just google it, it’s known by virtually everyone.

But I’m cautious about debating people who seem to have psychological meltdowns online.
Must be a slow week for the HappyDaze grift.

? What does he have to do with it?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 16, 2020, 06:16:54 PM
So NYT is not left-leaning now. Well, I think you lost all credibility a long time ago anyway.

Couldn't back up your position, huh?

You can just google it, it’s known by virtually everyone.

But I’m cautious about debating people who seem to have psychological meltdowns online.
Must be a slow week for the HappyDaze grift.

? What does he have to do with it?
Everything and nothing at the same time.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 16, 2020, 06:59:17 PM
Couldn't back up your position, huh?

You can just google it, it’s known by virtually everyone.

You still can't post one single link to support your position, though. Just trash talking the New York Times.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 16, 2020, 07:02:20 PM
Has Trump said anything about the cyberattack we just suffered? Is he even pretending to care about his office or the American public anymore?
Why would he start now? He's far too busy conning the rubes to get some more money.

Yes, and he's not going to start criticizing Putin now.

Lots of stuff for President Biden to fix come January 20th.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 16, 2020, 10:01:31 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/16/opinion/fireeye-solarwinds-russia-hack.html

Sure glad we have a President edits such a bitch
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 16, 2020, 10:12:42 PM
I really hope that we have at least 50 intelligence "experts" who claim that it was Russian interference.

Un-named experts would be the best sort to use.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 16, 2020, 10:31:23 PM
Everything is fine:




youtu.be/up1SLwKWSaE (http://youtu.be/up1SLwKWSaE)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 17, 2020, 12:00:53 AM
Has Trump said anything about the cyberattack we just suffered? Is he even pretending to care about his office or the American public anymore?
Why would he start now? He's far too busy conning the rubes to get some more money.

Yes, and he's not going to start criticizing Putin now.

Lots of stuff for President Biden to fix come January 20th.

Like he fixed the election?

HEYO!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 17, 2020, 12:09:25 AM
Couldn't back up your position, huh?

You can just google it, it’s known by virtually everyone.

You still can't post one single link to support your position, though. Just trash talking the New York Times.

Why would I? You already found the links if you looked up the political stance of NYT. Honestly, I wasn't going to say any of this, but you stooped to calling people names and such so here you go; you would probably do one of the following:
1. pretend it doesn't fit your definitions, moving the goalposts while claiming it's everyone else moving goalposts
2. hammer this forum with more posts, apparently to "get back" at the people here for being meanies
3. freak out when you can't handle it, and start sending me bizarre PMs like you did before
Frankly, I think you're a bit mentally unstable. I think you'd be better off taking a break from all the forums. I often do. Your party won. Celebrate.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 17, 2020, 12:40:18 AM
Couldn't back up your position, huh?

You can just google it, it’s known by virtually everyone.

You still can't post one single link to support your position, though. Just trash talking the New York Times.

Why would I? You already found the links if you looked up the political stance of NYT. Honestly, I wasn't going to say any of this, but you stooped to calling people names and such so here you go; you would probably do one of the following:
1. pretend it doesn't fit your definitions, moving the goalposts while claiming it's everyone else moving goalposts
2. hammer this forum with more posts, apparently to "get back" at the people here for being meanies
3. freak out when you can't handle it, and start sending me bizarre PMs like you did before
Frankly, I think you're a bit mentally unstable. I think you'd be better off taking a break from all the forums. I often do. Your party won. Celebrate.

Greetings!

Being mentally unstable and emotionally fragile seem to be characteristics strongly embedded with Leftists. Leftists are often plagued with depression, autism, bipolarism, schizophrenia, paranoia, delusions, and oppression complexes--in addition to narcissism, and a worldview that is essentially petulant and juvenile.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 17, 2020, 01:03:28 AM
Greetings!

Being mentally unstable and emotionally fragile seem to be characteristics strongly embedded with Leftists. Leftists are often plagued with depression, autism, bipolarism, schizophrenia, paranoia, delusions, and oppression complexes--in addition to narcissism, and a worldview that is essentially petulant and juvenile.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

This could also be part of it in many cases:
https://www.psypost.org/2020/12/researchers-identify-a-new-personality-construct-that-describes-the-tendency-to-see-oneself-as-a-victim-58753?fbclid=IwAR3cTcwg7XDY7Om82dP2qjGSkuLdrES4fdC-48oXJB86HueAqH5tZgQ-wnc
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 17, 2020, 01:10:20 AM
The Party of PEACE AND PROGRESS is at it again:
https://twitter.com/CurtisHouck/status/1339000780314062848
Holding up relief because... republicans. Riiiight. Sounds like something some of you would support: "Americans are suffering? Just let them dieeee!"

A pretty valid question: The MSM, Mitch McConnell and many others have called the election for JB and KH, If the election is a done deal, why hasn’t Kamala Harris given up her seat in the Senate? Does she know something we don't know??

There's something funny about Mitch though: https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1339207261952954369
BWAHAHAHAHAH! GOTCHA BASTARD! https://www.breitbart.com/radio/2018/03/20/schweizer-mcconnells-family-fortune-dependent-chinese-governments-good-graces/
In a nutshell:
So Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, his wife Elaine Chao, who’s the transportation secretary in the Trump administration, her family has deep economic and financial ties to the Chinese government itself,” said Schweizer. “They are in the shipping business, and they own something called the Foremost Group, and really, in 1993, Mitch McConnell, as a senator, travels to China with his father-in-law, James Chao, as guests of the China State Shipbuilding Corporation.”
 “The China State Shipbuilding Corporation is the largest defense contractor in China,
“McConnell himself has benefited because a few years ago, James Chao gave Mitch McConnell a gift between five and twenty-five million dollars that more than quadrupled his net worth overnight,this is not just about Elaine Chao’s family getting wealthy. That wealth has now trickled into Mitch McConnell’s pocket, as well, and it’s a huge problem because if you chart the positions that Sen. McConnell has taken on China over the last twenty years, guess what? Shock of all shocks, he has become increasingly soft as it relates to China.

Changing ballots for people too stupid to vote for JB/KH IS NO LONGER to be called FRAUD. From now on it shall be called VOTER INTENT!
https://twitter.com/MichaelCoudrey/status/1338977383202783232

A little known thing about what's going on right now:
The Maricopa County Board of Supervisors were served these subpoenas on Tuesday afternoon, and they call for the information to be delivered to the Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman on or before 5 p.m. on December 18, 2020.

Good thing FACEBOOK is on the up-and-up... oh, wait-
https://thenationalpulse.com/breaking/zuckerberg-clawback-provision/
In a nutshellL:
The Amistad Project, an election integrity watchdog group, highlighted in its recent press conference how Mark Zuckerberg placed constraints on the nearly half-billion dollars he funneled into the 2020 elections, including the ability to rescind donations if counties didn’t meet all of his demands.
The revelation adds to growing suspicions over Zuckerberg’s meddling in the 2020 election, including leveraging nearly all of his money to exclusively boost Democrat turnout.
Amistad Director Phill Klein explained in the group’s December 16th press conference how the Center for Technology and Civic Life (CTCL), which received nearly $400 million from Zuckerberg, included stipulations in its contracts with state officials and legislatures that they could demand their millions back if their request were not adhered to:
A clawback agreement in every contract that CTCL did with Mark Zuckerberg money that says if you do not follow our plan, we’re going to take back our money. All of it.
In short, “you have to do what we say,” according to Klein.
A fellow Amistad Project lawyer noted they found “clawback provisions in the CTCL contracts that were executed with local governments, local electoral officials” that “had within them specific language that said the electoral officials must spend the money on specific things.”
“Dropboxes, satellite voting, there was a whole host of things that were stipulations in the clawback agreements. And so what we have here is a private agency giving money to a local elected official and entering into a contract requiring these local precincts and electoral officials to do specific things,” he added.
“The claw back language in the CTCL agreements represents a longterm, contingent liability for counties and municipalities who received the CTCL grants. These liabilities pose long-term audit, bonding, or pension risks to those counties who received CTCL grants,” the Amistad Project’s official report notes.
EDIT: See it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8a3h69wLfU

fnord.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deathknight4044 on December 17, 2020, 01:48:08 AM
Yup
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Catulle on December 17, 2020, 04:52:35 AM
Couldn't back up your position, huh?

You can just google it, it’s known by virtually everyone.

You still can't post one single link to support your position, though. Just trash talking the New York Times.

Why would I? You already found the links if you looked up the political stance of NYT. Honestly, I wasn't going to say any of this, but you stooped to calling people names and such so here you go; you would probably do one of the following:
1. pretend it doesn't fit your definitions, moving the goalposts while claiming it's everyone else moving goalposts
2. hammer this forum with more posts, apparently to "get back" at the people here for being meanies
3. freak out when you can't handle it, and start sending me bizarre PMs like you did before
Frankly, I think you're a bit mentally unstable. I think you'd be better off taking a break from all the forums. I often do. Your party won. Celebrate.

Greetings!

Being mentally unstable and emotionally fragile seem to be characteristics strongly embedded with Leftists. Leftists are often plagued with depression, autism, bipolarism, schizophrenia, paranoia, delusions, and oppression complexes--in addition to narcissism, and a worldview that is essentially petulant and juvenile.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The President's a leftist now?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 17, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Oh, noes! It turns out the DNC cheated Bernie again! What an incredible development! WHO COULD'VE FORSEEN THIS?!?

PS: Democrats would NEVER cheat on the general elections, though. That's just a Republican conspiracy theory, amirite?  ;)

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 17, 2020, 11:49:40 AM
The Party of PEACE AND PROGRESS is at it again:
https://twitter.com/CurtisHouck/status/1339000780314062848
Holding up relief because... republicans. Riiiight. Sounds like something some of you would support: "Americans are suffering? Just let them dieeee!"

A pretty valid question: The MSM, Mitch McConnell and many others have called the election for JB and KH, If the election is a done deal, why hasn’t Kamala Harris given up her seat in the Senate? Does she know something we don't know??

There's something funny about Mitch though: https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1339207261952954369
BWAHAHAHAHAH! GOTCHA BASTARD! https://www.breitbart.com/radio/2018/03/20/schweizer-mcconnells-family-fortune-dependent-chinese-governments-good-graces/
In a nutshell:
So Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, his wife Elaine Chao, who’s the transportation secretary in the Trump administration, her family has deep economic and financial ties to the Chinese government itself,” said Schweizer. “They are in the shipping business, and they own something called the Foremost Group, and really, in 1993, Mitch McConnell, as a senator, travels to China with his father-in-law, James Chao, as guests of the China State Shipbuilding Corporation.”
 “The China State Shipbuilding Corporation is the largest defense contractor in China,
“McConnell himself has benefited because a few years ago, James Chao gave Mitch McConnell a gift between five and twenty-five million dollars that more than quadrupled his net worth overnight,this is not just about Elaine Chao’s family getting wealthy. That wealth has now trickled into Mitch McConnell’s pocket, as well, and it’s a huge problem because if you chart the positions that Sen. McConnell has taken on China over the last twenty years, guess what? Shock of all shocks, he has become increasingly soft as it relates to China.

Changing ballots for people too stupid to vote for JB/KH IS NO LONGER to be called FRAUD. From now on it shall be called VOTER INTENT!
https://twitter.com/MichaelCoudrey/status/1338977383202783232

A little known thing about what's going on right now:
The Maricopa County Board of Supervisors were served these subpoenas on Tuesday afternoon, and they call for the information to be delivered to the Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman on or before 5 p.m. on December 18, 2020.

Good thing FACEBOOK is on the up-and-up... oh, wait-
https://thenationalpulse.com/breaking/zuckerberg-clawback-provision/
In a nutshellL:
The Amistad Project, an election integrity watchdog group, highlighted in its recent press conference how Mark Zuckerberg placed constraints on the nearly half-billion dollars he funneled into the 2020 elections, including the ability to rescind donations if counties didn’t meet all of his demands.
The revelation adds to growing suspicions over Zuckerberg’s meddling in the 2020 election, including leveraging nearly all of his money to exclusively boost Democrat turnout.
Amistad Director Phill Klein explained in the group’s December 16th press conference how the Center for Technology and Civic Life (CTCL), which received nearly $400 million from Zuckerberg, included stipulations in its contracts with state officials and legislatures that they could demand their millions back if their request were not adhered to:
A clawback agreement in every contract that CTCL did with Mark Zuckerberg money that says if you do not follow our plan, we’re going to take back our money. All of it.
In short, “you have to do what we say,” according to Klein.
A fellow Amistad Project lawyer noted they found “clawback provisions in the CTCL contracts that were executed with local governments, local electoral officials” that “had within them specific language that said the electoral officials must spend the money on specific things.”
“Dropboxes, satellite voting, there was a whole host of things that were stipulations in the clawback agreements. And so what we have here is a private agency giving money to a local elected official and entering into a contract requiring these local precincts and electoral officials to do specific things,” he added.
“The claw back language in the CTCL agreements represents a longterm, contingent liability for counties and municipalities who received the CTCL grants. These liabilities pose long-term audit, bonding, or pension risks to those counties who received CTCL grants,” the Amistad Project’s official report notes.
EDIT: See it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8a3h69wLfU

fnord.

Some of us knew McConnell was compromised a long time ago, and didn't need to wait to be told by Trump that it was OK to say so. You're late to the party, bud.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 17, 2020, 02:30:40 PM
Oh, noes! It turns out the DNC cheated Bernie again! What an incredible development! WHO COULD'VE FORSEEN THIS?!?

PS: Democrats would NEVER cheat on the general elections, though. That's just a Republican conspiracy theory, amirite?  ;)

The problem here is your insistence on blind faith. Personally, I don't implicitly trust any of the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, Trump, or Biden. When I try to find out what any of them actually did, what I look for is evidence.

The way you frame it, either "Democrats would NEVER cheat on the general elections" or "the general elections were completely rigged and stolen by Democrats".

The reason I don't believe most conspiracy theories isn't that I think authorities are pure and good. It's that I don't think they are ultra-competent masterminds. If something requires dozens of people all knowingly complicit in a criminal conspiracy, it's incredibly difficult to pull off without one of the insiders screwing up and/or turning on the others. If a plan just requires a handful of people who know -- like an assassination with just two or three gunmen -- then it becomes more possible, at least, though not necessarily true.


In the 2020 general elections, the claims require that not just dozens to hundreds of Democrats - but also dozens of top-ranking Republicans as well as dozens of court judges all have to be in on the conspiracy. If all the evidence is as blatant and obviously true as claimed, then how else would judge after judge rule against the election lawsuits? When I sample through the various evidence claims, what I see is not the proof that it is described as.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on December 17, 2020, 02:32:56 PM
Greetings!

Being mentally unstable and emotionally fragile seem to be characteristics strongly embedded with Leftists. Leftists are often plagued with depression, autism, bipolarism, schizophrenia, paranoia, delusions, and oppression complexes--in addition to narcissism, and a worldview that is essentially petulant and juvenile.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Yes they are almost as unstable, emotionally fragile, petulant, juvenile, and crazy as the Trumpkins.

Almost.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on December 17, 2020, 02:37:48 PM
The problem here is your insistence on blind faith. Personally, I don't implicitly trust any of the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, Trump, or Biden. When I try to find out what any of them actually did, what I look for is evidence.
It's not called blind faith for nothing. Regardless of the subject of their blindness, people with blind faith just aren't amenable to evidence based claims or rational discourse.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 17, 2020, 04:04:59 PM
You still can't post one single link to support your position, though. Just trash talking the New York Times.

Why would I? You already found the links if you looked up the political stance of NYT.

That plenty of right wing people call anything short of Breitbart left-wing? No need for an internet search. You said that New York Times supported you based on recriminations from a losing Democratic candidate versus bomb threats within the Republican party. But you can't offer any basis for your belief that bias was responsible for the disparity. Still waiting for you to post any links so I can laugh at what you consider unbiased media.

Since you don't like "left-leaning" sources, here's one describing threats to Republicans in Georgia. Are you going to claim that the people threatening Republicans in Georgia are actually Democrats?
https://www.breitbart.com/news/georgia-elections-official-urges-trump-to-rein-in-supporters/

Quote
Honestly,

LOL. This is like when Donald Trump tells a story where someone called him "sir".

But since you want to air it out, the only bizarre PM between us ever was yours where you attacked me for criticizing someone you believed had a PhD (still don't know whom you meant in a forum where almost everyone is pseudonymous); a nice combination of argument from authority and ignorance of the fallibility of actual PhDs.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 17, 2020, 04:19:27 PM
You still can't post one single link to support your position, though. Just trash talking the New York Times.

Why would I? You already found the links if you looked up the political stance of NYT.

That plenty of right wing people call anything short of Breitbart left-wing? No need for an internet search. You said that New York Times supported you based on recriminations from a losing Democratic candidate versus bomb threats within the Republican party. But you can't offer any basis for your belief that bias was responsible for the disparity. Still waiting for you to post any links so I can laugh at what you consider unbiased media.

Since you don't like "left-leaning" sources, here's one describing threats to Republicans in Georgia. Are you going to claim that the people threatening Republicans in Georgia are actually Democrats?
https://www.breitbart.com/news/georgia-elections-official-urges-trump-to-rein-in-supporters/

Quote
Honestly,

LOL. This is like when Donald Trump tells a story where someone called him "sir".

But since you want to air it out, the only bizarre PM between us ever was yours where you attacked me for criticizing someone you believed had a PhD (still don't know whom you meant in a forum where almost everyone is pseudonymous); a nice combination of argument from authority and ignorance of the fallibility of actual PhDs.
I have a PhD, don't know about anyone else here. And you started that PM conversation.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 17, 2020, 04:31:33 PM
Has Trump said anything about the cyberattack we just suffered? Is he even pretending to care about his office or the American public anymore?
Why would he start now? He's far too busy conning the rubes to get some more money.

Where were you when BLM was grifting money hand over fist?

Not so worried about the "rubes" then.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 17, 2020, 04:57:10 PM
Oh, noes! It turns out the DNC cheated Bernie again! What an incredible development! WHO COULD'VE FORSEEN THIS?!?

PS: Democrats would NEVER cheat on the general elections, though. That's just a Republican conspiracy theory, amirite?  ;)

The problem here is your insistence on blind faith. Personally, I don't implicitly trust any of the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, Trump, or Biden. When I try to find out what any of them actually did, what I look for is evidence.

The only thing I have faith on is that the entire system has become irrevocably corrupt, and that the Democratic party has become the most criminal corrupt of either party at this point, but they're both criminally corrupt. I don't trust any of them--even Trump. My support for him exists strictly on the basis that 1) I consider him to be literally the lesser of two evils, 2) I still value some of his accomplishments (multiple peace deals, improved economy, attempts to bring troops home, etc.) despite my reservations over some of the things he's done (rammed up drone strikes while making them secret, so we no longer know how many people he's killed using them), and 3) I believe that he's the only one who has the will and the ego to fight against the machine, even if at least partly for his own selfish egotistic reasons. All in all I think he's better than Obama (who was only marginally better than Bush), which is admittedly a low bar, but one I no longer believe any president is capable of surpassing, given how broken and corrupt the entire system has become.

In the 2020 general elections, the claims require that not just dozens to hundreds of Democrats - but also dozens of top-ranking Republicans as well as dozens of court judges all have to be in on the conspiracy. If all the evidence is as blatant and obviously true as claimed, then how else would judge after judge rule against the election lawsuits? When I sample through the various evidence claims, what I see is not the proof that it is described as.

And that is precisely what I believe happened. Republicans hate Trump. The man basically inserted himself into their party and took it over, and #NeverTrump has been a thing since the man got the nomination to run as the Republican candidate for president. Most that work with him do so out of expediency, since they're stuck with him either way. I have zero difficulty believing that Democrats and Republicans would work together to preserve the status quo, cuz that is precisely what has been happening for decades and how we were pushed into forever wars. Their differences are all performative, just to get elected, but neither party works for the public, only for the special interests, and Trump has been disrupting all that. The judges haven't even looked at any of the evidence, but dismissed every case on the grounds of things such as improper filing, rather than the merits of them.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 17, 2020, 07:00:17 PM
In the 2020 general elections, the claims require that not just dozens to hundreds of Democrats - but also dozens of top-ranking Republicans as well as dozens of court judges all have to be in on the conspiracy. If all the evidence is as blatant and obviously true as claimed, then how else would judge after judge rule against the election lawsuits? When I sample through the various evidence claims, what I see is not the proof that it is described as.

And that is precisely what I believe happened. Republicans hate Trump. The man basically inserted himself into their party and took it over, and #NeverTrump has been a thing since the man got the nomination to run as the Republican candidate for president. Most that work with him do so out of expediency, since they're stuck with him either way. I have zero difficulty believing that Democrats and Republicans would work together to preserve the status quo, cuz that is precisely what has been happening for decades and how we were pushed into forever wars. Their differences are all performative, just to get elected, but neither party works for the public, only for the special interests, and Trump has been disrupting all that. The judges haven't even looked at any of the evidence, but dismissed every case on the grounds of things such as improper filing, rather than the merits of them.

That is incorrect regarding the judges. It's true that the U.S. Supreme Court ruled against the Texas AG lawsuit on lack of grounds rather than evidence, but there have been over 50 lawsuits - many of which *were* decided on the basis of evidence. I'm sure you've seen videos of testimony being given in court in a number of cases. That's evidence being heard and ruled on. If you go over the list of lawsuits, many of them were dismissed by judges who ruled the evidence was not persuasive. The Wikipedia page has a breakdown, but you don't have to believe Wikipedia - you can go to the rulings themselves to confirm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election


Plus, in addition to all the judges, you have to add in the FBI and DOJ have to be in on it as well -- plus a bunch of police departments. They're failing to investigate and arrest the blatant criminal action that is supposedly happening. Police and FBI don't require a legal filing prior to making an investigation and arrest.

Looking at the history of confirmed criminal conspiracies, like the Watergate, the Iran Contra affair, Whitewater, and others -- they don't have the sort of hyper-competence that is portrayed in fiction. All of them were shot full of flaws. What is claimed is a conspiracy vastly larger and more ambitious than any of those, with a massively tighter seal on all details.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 17, 2020, 07:51:54 PM
If only we had whistleblowers who testified to rampant stupidity in executing this at all levels, our friends on the other side of the aisle would take it more seriously

It really sucks all we have is the accusation of a fraud so cleanly and tracelessly executed, that the mass hallucinations of thousands of people coming forward in real time as events unfolded is obviously what happened.  Because the people being accused assure us it isn’t true (this is called an official fact check, or “debunk”), and it isn’t credible that an entire government can become largely corrupt - if you read through history books, “corrupt” isn't an adjective commonly modifying the noun “government”
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 17, 2020, 08:12:34 PM
If only we had whistleblowers who testified to rampant stupidity in executing this at all levels, our friends on the other side of the aisle would take it more seriously

It really sucks all we have is the accusation of a fraud so cleanly and tracelessly executed, that the mass hallucinations of thousands of people coming forward in real time as events unfolded is obviously what happened.  Because the people being accused assure us it isn’t true (this is called an official fact check, or “debunk”), and it isn’t credible that an entire government can become largely corrupt - if you read through history books, “corrupt” isn't an adjective commonly modifying the noun “government”

Greetings!

That's right, EOTB!

We have hundreds, maybe thousands of witnesses, testimonies, of fraud and corruption throughout the election, in several states.

But the powers that be, the good Leftists chomping at the bit to get their hands on more power, shriek that there's nothing to see here! There's no fraud, EOTB!

Of course, if there was fraud--this reaction from the public with numerous whistle blowers is exactly what we would expect to see. Lo and Behold, there are lots of ordinary Americans *screaming* about fraud and corruption, and you would think that people that claim to be above board and honest would want to take them seriously, and pursue thorough investigations!

Instead, we have broad blanket organized censorship, shrill cries to shut up and bow down, and a chorus of smug, self-righteous pigs telling us in unison, "There is no evidence of substantial fraud. There's nothing to see here. Just accept Biden and Harris as our new leaders, and move on!"

Yes, yes. With "Unity and Healing" ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 17, 2020, 08:23:31 PM
You can tell that Trump doesn't give a crap about the cyberattack or the thousands dying of Covid each day. Good riddance to this sack of crap. I mean, is it too much to ask that even in the interregnum, you at least pretend that the job and the American people mean anything?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 17, 2020, 08:47:45 PM
You can tell that Trump doesn't give a crap about the cyberattack or the thousands dying of Covid each day. Good riddance to this sack of crap. I mean, is it too much to ask that even in the interregnum, you at least pretend that the job and the American people mean anything?

Man what? You can think that Trump is insincere about his intentions, but you can't seriously say that he hasn't been out there making speeches about how the American people mean anything. That's how the dude got frikkin elected in 2016. He went to the rust belt and talked like an average Joe to average Joes.

Meanwhile we're in for less than four years of Status Quo Joe giving us boilerplate politics until he slips in the shower and Kamilia takes over. Can't wait to see what Lady Joker does with the position. I'm stocking up on canned beans and shotgun ammo.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 17, 2020, 08:53:35 PM
You can tell that Trump doesn't give a crap about the cyberattack or the thousands dying of Covid each day. Good riddance to this sack of crap. I mean, is it too much to ask that even in the interregnum, you at least pretend that the job and the American people mean anything?

How many people die every day in a country of 330 million?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 17, 2020, 09:30:23 PM
You can tell that Trump doesn't give a crap about the cyberattack or the thousands dying of Covid each day. Good riddance to this sack of crap. I mean, is it too much to ask that even in the interregnum, you at least pretend that the job and the American people mean anything?

Man what? You can think that Trump is insincere about his intentions, but you can't seriously say that he hasn't been out there making speeches about how the American people mean anything. That's how the dude got frikkin elected in 2016. He went to the rust belt and talked like an average Joe to average Joes.

Meanwhile we're in for less than four years of Status Quo Joe giving us boilerplate politics until he slips in the shower and Kamilia takes over. Can't wait to see what Lady Joker does with the position. I'm stocking up on canned beans and shotgun ammo.

Yes, he's been out there making speeches and collecting money.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 17, 2020, 09:32:49 PM
You can tell that Trump doesn't give a crap about the cyberattack or the thousands dying of Covid each day. Good riddance to this sack of crap. I mean, is it too much to ask that even in the interregnum, you at least pretend that the job and the American people mean anything?

How many people die every day in a country of 330 million?

Nice strawman, but we now know that many of these deaths would have been preventable if not for the ineptitude and callousness of the current administration, headed by Pinnochiorange.

Besides, if Covid deaths don't matter because "lots of people die every day", then I guess the right can just shut the fuck up about abortion. Or people killed by illegal aliens.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 17, 2020, 09:35:22 PM
You can tell that Trump doesn't give a crap about the cyberattack or the thousands dying of Covid each day. Good riddance to this sack of crap. I mean, is it too much to ask that even in the interregnum, you at least pretend that the job and the American people mean anything?

Man what? You can think that Trump is insincere about his intentions, but you can't seriously say that he hasn't been out there making speeches about how the American people mean anything. That's how the dude got frikkin elected in 2016. He went to the rust belt and talked like an average Joe to average Joes.

Meanwhile we're in for less than four years of Status Quo Joe giving us boilerplate politics until he slips in the shower and Kamilia takes over. Can't wait to see what Lady Joker does with the position. I'm stocking up on canned beans and shotgun ammo.

Yes, he's been out there making speeches and collecting money.

Like every politician ever.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 17, 2020, 09:36:20 PM
We have a vaccine now when every talking head and retard assured us it'd be two years before it was ready.

Go home, Sockpuppet. You're drunk.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on December 17, 2020, 09:55:45 PM
How many people die every day in a country of 330 million?
In 2018 is was about 6500 per day. In 2020 in the United States of America COVID19 is the third leading cause of death.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 17, 2020, 09:57:48 PM
You can tell that Trump doesn't give a crap about the cyberattack or the thousands dying of Covid each day. Good riddance to this sack of crap. I mean, is it too much to ask that even in the interregnum, you at least pretend that the job and the American people mean anything?

Man what? You can think that Trump is insincere about his intentions, but you can't seriously say that he hasn't been out there making speeches about how the American people mean anything. That's how the dude got frikkin elected in 2016. He went to the rust belt and talked like an average Joe to average Joes.

Meanwhile we're in for less than four years of Status Quo Joe giving us boilerplate politics until he slips in the shower and Kamilia takes over. Can't wait to see what Lady Joker does with the position. I'm stocking up on canned beans and shotgun ammo.

Yes, he's been out there making speeches and collecting money.

Like every politician ever.

"Everyone does it" is an intellectually lazy fallback people use when they can't defend their position.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 17, 2020, 10:01:32 PM
We have a vaccine now when every talking head and retard assured us it'd be two years before it was ready.

Go home, Sockpuppet. You're drunk.

We "have" a vaccine, yes, but it will still be a while before it gets rolled out.

Saying "We have a vaccine!" is like saying "We put out the fire", when the fire is still raging, the water won't be available widely for months, and it will take a year or more to fully extinguish the fire, which would have been contained long ago, and many lives saved, if we had competent leadership.

Instead, we have a 9/11 every day, because Republicucks fell for the lies of a literal pantsshitting moron.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 17, 2020, 10:03:13 PM
Greetings!

That's right the ORANGE MAN is out giving speeches, hosting awesome rallies for the American people, and raking in HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF SWEET DOLLARS!!! YESSS!!

And if the ORANGE MAN spends just 10% of those hundreds of millions of dollars to fuck the leftists and crush Marxism, that is MONEY WELL SPENT!

*LAUGHING*

I hope ORANGE MAN rakes in even MOAR MONEY!!! Fucking GOOD!!!

It's always a joy to hear cock-sucking Marxists REEEE! Anything to make them sob and cry like the filthy bitches they are!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 17, 2020, 10:15:50 PM
We have a vaccine now when every talking head and retard assured us it'd be two years before it was ready.

Go home, Sockpuppet. You're drunk.

We "have" a vaccine, yes, but it will still be a while before it gets rolled out.

Saying "We have a vaccine!" is like saying "We put out the fire", when the fire is still raging, the water won't be available widely for months, and it will take a year or more to fully extinguish the fire, which would have been contained long ago, and many lives saved, if we had competent leadership.

Instead, we have a 9/11 every day, because Republicucks fell for the lies of a literal pantsshitting moron.

Hey Tubesock Asswipe, why do you register on a gaming forum and have only a single post in Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion, but over 50 in The RPGPundit's Own Forum? Could it be because you are only here to troll? Looks likely!

Go back to Tangency.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 17, 2020, 10:27:11 PM
Nice strawman, but we now know that many of these deaths would have been preventable if not for the ineptitude and callousness of the current administration, headed by Pinnochiorange.

Besides, if Covid deaths don't matter because "lots of people die every day", then I guess the right can just shut the fuck up about abortion. Or people killed by illegal aliens.

How are you going to "prevent" death?

Is it by locking people in their homes so that they can live forever?

Please explain in detail your idea for stopping these "preventable" deaths?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 17, 2020, 10:43:26 PM
You can tell that Trump doesn't give a crap about the cyberattack or the thousands dying of Covid each day. Good riddance to this sack of crap. I mean, is it too much to ask that even in the interregnum, you at least pretend that the job and the American people mean anything?

Man what? You can think that Trump is insincere about his intentions, but you can't seriously say that he hasn't been out there making speeches about how the American people mean anything. That's how the dude got frikkin elected in 2016. He went to the rust belt and talked like an average Joe to average Joes.

Meanwhile we're in for less than four years of Status Quo Joe giving us boilerplate politics until he slips in the shower and Kamilia takes over. Can't wait to see what Lady Joker does with the position. I'm stocking up on canned beans and shotgun ammo.

Yes, he's been out there making speeches and collecting money.

Like every politician ever.

"Everyone does it" is an intellectually lazy fallback people use when they can't defend their position.

I questioned your assertation that Trump "doesn't even pretend that the job and the american people mean anything" and instead of backing up your claim or conceeding, you moved the goalpost.
So yeah. Take your accustation of intellectual laziness and stuff it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 17, 2020, 10:46:59 PM
Nice strawman, but we now know that many of these deaths would have been preventable if not for the ineptitude and callousness of the current administration, headed by Pinnochiorange.

Besides, if Covid deaths don't matter because "lots of people die every day", then I guess the right can just shut the fuck up about abortion. Or people killed by illegal aliens.

How are you going to "prevent" death?

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/xTiIzxQye2bRk11qdG/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 17, 2020, 11:00:01 PM
Fuck the FUD and the TROLLING! All arguments here are showing WHO will be marked for sedition and treason. If you think you're not being surveilled, then THINK AGAIN! The State & Local Governments that have everything locked down, permitted the riots, and they are now complaining because their state is not receiving funds. They are becoming angry because they were promised bailouts. Trump has been showing the Fed who is in charge of the economy. He has he magic wand. The people have spoken they do not want the great reset. The Deep State and Mainstream Media Oligarchs are moving in the direction the patriots want them to go. The evidence of election fraud is being produced and now the SP case is on the docket for the supreme court. Trump has a decision to make, will he use the EO 13848 to bring down the invisible enemy? The Deep State sent a message, the CURE will spread World wide! Families and children will be safe from the lies, deceit, and violence which has caused so much damage over the last 100 or so years. Will the New Order be about humanity? Or will it be laid upon the foundations of lies, blood, and death?
Time will tell...

WELCOME TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER:
===============================
The dictators who destroyed their own states and cities are pissed because the FED won’t bail them out:
https://twitter.com/politico/status/1339409994782019584

The majority of likely American voters say they oppose “The Great Reset” initiative currently being spearheaded by globalists in the United States and Europe, a survey finds. A survey by Rasmussen Reporters and The Heartland Institute reveals that about 53 percent of likely voters who have heard of the Great Reset oppose its mission to further integrate nations’ economies, globalize American industries, and bind U.S. citizens to international climate rules:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/16/survey-majority-of-u-s-voters-oppose-globalist-great-reset-initiative/

More evidence of FRAUD and COVER-UP:
https://twitter.com/AZGOP/status/1339605621574836224
https://twitter.com/dolezal4senate/status/1338930333077696513
https://twitter.com/ForAmerica/status/1339253940098101248
https://twitter.com/ODNIgov/status/1339356234777047051

Mr. Kim is correct. Conspirators ALWAYS make mistakes:
https://twitter.com/anonpatriotq/status/1339323214737104898
https://twitter.com/paulsperry_/status/1339436133118259204
https://twitter.com/paulsperry_/status/1339442244978421762
https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1339601770280992769

Sidney Powell’s case in Michigan has finally made it to the Supreme Court. Ten days ago a far-left and biased Obama judge dismissed Sidney Powell’s case in Michigan after sitting on it for days.  The judge claimed the case was “An Amalgamation of Theories, Conjecture, and Speculation”. Now ten days later the case has finally made it on the docket at the Supreme Court:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/breaking-sidney-powells-case-michigan-finally-made-onto-supreme-court-docket/

Peter Navaro, the Assistant to the President, Director of Trade and Manufacturing Policy, and the national Defense Production Act policy coordinator, just released a report on the 2020 election. He outlines a “coordinated strategy to effectively stack the election deck against the Trump-Pence ticket” occurring in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/theft-thousand-cuts-assistant-president-trump-peter-navarro-produces-report-fraud-2020-election/

Here is something:
https://us-cert.cisa.gov/ncas/alerts/aa20-352a
CISA has determined that this threat poses a grave risk to the Federal Government and state, local, tribal, and territorial governments as well as critical infrastructure entities and other private sector organizations. CISA advises stakeholders to read this Alert and review the enclosed indicators (see Appendix B). It “has evidence of additional initial access vectors, other than the SolarWinds Orion platform … these are still being investigated.”

IMPORTANT ~ READ THE WHLOE THREAD:
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1339578441960603658
Yes, people. This is what it has come down to. The LEFT loves to play victim. Now let's see how they like BEING THE VICTIM. As always, it is their own fault. (Explains why they do not believe in PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!)

“Without the pen of the author of Common Sense, the sword of Washington would have been raised in vain.” John Adams
“That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

Fight, Fight, Fight.
DEMAND public disclosure.
BE LOUD.
BE HEARD.
This is just the beginning!
WE, THE PEOPLE!
WE, THE PEOPLE!
WE, THE PEOPLE!
WE, THE PEOPLE!
WHERE WE GO ONE, WE GO ALL.
NO ONE PERSON IS ABOVE ANOTHER.
WE, THE PEOPLE, ARE MAKING THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE.
WE, THE PEOPLE, ARE TAKING BACK OUR COUNTRY (& WORLD) FROM THE EVIL LOSERS WHO WOULD DO US HARM (ALL FOR A BUCK).
NO MORE.
STAND UP PATRIOTS.
STAND UP AND DEFEND WHAT YOU KNOW IS RIGHT.
GOD BLESS YOU AND GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 17, 2020, 11:18:28 PM
You can tell that Trump doesn't give a crap about the cyberattack or the thousands dying of Covid each day. Good riddance to this sack of crap. I mean, is it too much to ask that even in the interregnum, you at least pretend that the job and the American people mean anything?

Man what? You can think that Trump is insincere about his intentions, but you can't seriously say that he hasn't been out there making speeches about how the American people mean anything. That's how the dude got frikkin elected in 2016. He went to the rust belt and talked like an average Joe to average Joes.

Meanwhile we're in for less than four years of Status Quo Joe giving us boilerplate politics until he slips in the shower and Kamilia takes over. Can't wait to see what Lady Joker does with the position. I'm stocking up on canned beans and shotgun ammo.

Yes, he's been out there making speeches and collecting money.

Like every politician ever.

"Everyone does it" is an intellectually lazy fallback people use when they can't defend their position.

I questioned your assertation that Trump "doesn't even pretend that the job and the american people mean anything" and instead of backing up your claim or conceeding, you moved the goalpost.
So yeah. Take your accustation of intellectual laziness and stuff it.

But he doesn't act like he cares at all. Talking big, while doing nothing, is still doing nothing. And he has always made it clear that he could care less about blue states. You know, the half of the country he was hired (and failed) to govern.

I didn't move any goalposts.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 17, 2020, 11:39:51 PM
--snipp--
But he doesn't act like he cares at all. Talking big, while doing nothing, is still doing nothing. And he has always made it clear that he could care less about blue states. You know, the half of the country he was hired (and failed) to govern.

I didn't move any goalposts.
You're so full of shit, it's UNBELIEVABLE! Go read my post - the part about CISA. That's called ACTION, since that's what that agency DOES.
You don't like him. That's why you LIE.
LIES ARE A SIN.
REPENT!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 17, 2020, 11:45:09 PM
You can tell that Trump doesn't give a crap about the cyberattack or the thousands dying of Covid each day. Good riddance to this sack of crap. I mean, is it too much to ask that even in the interregnum, you at least pretend that the job and the American people mean anything?

Man what? You can think that Trump is insincere about his intentions, but you can't seriously say that he hasn't been out there making speeches about how the American people mean anything. That's how the dude got frikkin elected in 2016. He went to the rust belt and talked like an average Joe to average Joes.

Meanwhile we're in for less than four years of Status Quo Joe giving us boilerplate politics until he slips in the shower and Kamilia takes over. Can't wait to see what Lady Joker does with the position. I'm stocking up on canned beans and shotgun ammo.

Yes, he's been out there making speeches and collecting money.

Like every politician ever.

"Everyone does it" is an intellectually lazy fallback people use when they can't defend their position.

I questioned your assertation that Trump "doesn't even pretend that the job and the american people mean anything" and instead of backing up your claim or conceeding, you moved the goalpost.
So yeah. Take your accustation of intellectual laziness and stuff it.

But he doesn't act like he cares at all. Talking big, while doing nothing, is still doing nothing. And he has always made it clear that he could care less about blue states. You know, the half of the country he was hired (and failed) to govern.

I didn't move any goalposts.

Do I need to link to a Trump speech? Where he acts like he cares at all?
You can argue that he talks big and does nothing, I think I'd disagree, but you're asserting that he doesn't even pretend, that he doesn't even act. And that's demonstrably false. I thought you were just engaging in hyperbole, but now after doubling down, I don't know what to think. Either you're arguing to argue, or you're deluded.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 18, 2020, 01:16:52 AM
You can tell that Trump doesn't give a crap about the cyberattack or the thousands dying of Covid each day. Good riddance to this sack of crap. I mean, is it too much to ask that even in the interregnum, you at least pretend that the job and the American people mean anything?

Man what? You can think that Trump is insincere about his intentions, but you can't seriously say that he hasn't been out there making speeches about how the American people mean anything. That's how the dude got frikkin elected in 2016. He went to the rust belt and talked like an average Joe to average Joes.

Meanwhile we're in for less than four years of Status Quo Joe giving us boilerplate politics until he slips in the shower and Kamilia takes over. Can't wait to see what Lady Joker does with the position. I'm stocking up on canned beans and shotgun ammo.

Yes, he's been out there making speeches and collecting money.

Like every politician ever.

"Everyone does it" is an intellectually lazy fallback people use when they can't defend their position.

I questioned your assertation that Trump "doesn't even pretend that the job and the american people mean anything" and instead of backing up your claim or conceeding, you moved the goalpost.
So yeah. Take your accustation of intellectual laziness and stuff it.

But he doesn't act like he cares at all. Talking big, while doing nothing, is still doing nothing. And he has always made it clear that he could care less about blue states. You know, the half of the country he was hired (and failed) to govern.

I didn't move any goalposts.

Do I need to link to a Trump speech? Where he acts like he cares at all?
You can argue that he talks big and does nothing, I think I'd disagree, but you're asserting that he doesn't even pretend, that he doesn't even act. And that's demonstrably false. I thought you were just engaging in hyperbole, but now after doubling down, I don't know what to think. Either you're arguing to argue, or you're deluded.

Okay you were right. Trump PRETENDS to care. Verbally, anyway. Anything beyond that is apparently too much to ask.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 18, 2020, 01:48:52 AM
Greetings!

You know what? The idea that President Donald J. Trump *doesn't care* is a bunch of bullshit propaganda and misinformation from cock-sucking Marxist Libtards. Only weak-minded, Leftist fucking morons believe that--and seek to spread such disinformation and blatant lies about our President! Deep down, the fucking Leftist moron knows that Americans despise them, and their rotten, evil ideology. Many of these Marxist traitor scum are also taking it in the ass from Communist China--or sticking their dick into a Chinese fortune cookie--also known as Chinese Intelligence officers.

President Donald J. Trump *LOVES* America, and LOVES Americans! TRUE Americans--not cock-sucking, Marxist traitors. Not filthy, diseased, God-hating Rats!

President Donald Trump has strengthened America's borders, tightened up laws and policies on immigration--so that this country isn't flooded with uneducated foreign immigrants that overwhelm our immigration and social systems. By the way--such policies *benefit* AMERICAN workers, and AMERICAN PEOPLE. AMERICAN CITIZENS! First, and foremost, as a national PRIORITY. That helps American jobs, and American wages. President Trump has also improved the tax code--putting more MONEY back into the wallets of working American citizens! President Donald Trump has eschewed sending our great American soldiers into endless fucking wars, and having OUR BLOOD AND TREASURE spilled dubiously for ethereal political gains--or the corporate gains of arms and technology companies. President Donald Trump has encouraged and supported LAW ENFORCEMENT and LAW AND ORDER--instead of lawless, evil rebels and terrorist groups like BLM and ANTIFA. Oh, that's right! The fucking DEMOCRATS have supported BLM and ANTIFA thugs raping, burning, and destroying American cities! Yeah, suck the truth down you fucking Marxist retards! Wipe that shit off your lips so you can swallow some more, you worthless fucking rats!

Plus, for more REEEING joy, the goddamned Democrats hate the fact that America LOVES President Donald Trump! I have gone all my life, and NEVER seen America love a President like Donald Trump--perhaps aside from President Ronald Reagan, now over 30 years ago. None though, hands down, Americans of all colours and nationalities love President Donald Trump because the American people KNOWS that President Donald Trump cares about America, and is fighting for America's benefit against the fucking SWAMP and the DEEP STATE!

Pack that in your fucking ass if you don't like it!

I know for myself--and many other Americans--President Donald Trump has earned the devotion, the respect, and the love of the American people for many reasons--perhaps first and foremost being, is that unlike a fucking lifetime of worthless, do-nothing politicians that just lie and blow smoke up everyone's asses, President Donald Trump has KEPT HIS PROMISES! AND, he has fought for more, every step of the way. Fighting to establish a better America for everyone. All the while being opposed by the fucking filthy Democrats, goddamned Marxists, and jello-filled RINO'S and other swarmy worms of the deep state bureaucracies. Every step of the way, fighting against them, and the entertainment industry, and the cock-sucking traitor lying MSM that is nothing more than a fucking propaganda arm of the Democrat party.

Fucking choke on the goddamned Marxist lies and bullshit that President Donald Trump doesn't care for America!

Geesus, Leftists are such lying, delusional fucking morons.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 18, 2020, 03:02:12 AM
You can tell that Trump doesn't give a crap about the cyberattack or the thousands dying of Covid each day. Good riddance to this sack of crap. I mean, is it too much to ask that even in the interregnum, you at least pretend that the job and the American people mean anything?

How many people die every day in a country of 330 million?

Nice strawman, but we now know that many of these deaths would have been preventable if not for the ineptitude and callousness of the current administration, headed by Pinnochiorange.

Besides, if Covid deaths don't matter because "lots of people die every day", then I guess the right can just shut the fuck up about abortion. Or people killed by illegal aliens.
No, we don't know that. Trump's errors have largely been inconsistent messaging, but even by that standard the CDC and WHO have been worse, because they're supposed to be authoritative sources, not an orange guy known for rambling about things he doesn't know a lot about. The real failures have been among the states, especially the Fatal Five governors who forced sick patients into nursing homes.

For anyone less than 49 years of age, COVID-19 is less dangerous than the flu. Yet we're continuing to shut down schools, even though we have overwhelming evidence that remote learning simply doesn't work. We've compromised the future of an entire generation over a new disease that's two orders of magnitude less dangerous for kids than a pre-existing seasonal disease we almost entirely ignore.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 18, 2020, 09:30:17 AM
Greetings!

You know what? The idea that President Donald J. Trump *doesn't care* is a bunch of bullshit propaganda and misinformation from cock-sucking Marxist Libtards. Only weak-minded, Leftist fucking morons believe that--and seek to spread such disinformation and blatant lies about our President! Deep down, the fucking Leftist moron knows that Americans despise them, and their rotten, evil ideology. Many of these Marxist traitor scum are also taking it in the ass from Communist China--or sticking their dick into a Chinese fortune cookie--also known as Chinese Intelligence officers.

President Donald J. Trump *LOVES* America, and LOVES Americans! TRUE Americans--not cock-sucking, Marxist traitors. Not filthy, diseased, God-hating Rats!

President Donald Trump has strengthened America's borders, tightened up laws and policies on immigration--so that this country isn't flooded with uneducated foreign immigrants that overwhelm our immigration and social systems. By the way--such policies *benefit* AMERICAN workers, and AMERICAN PEOPLE. AMERICAN CITIZENS! First, and foremost, as a national PRIORITY. That helps American jobs, and American wages. President Trump has also improved the tax code--putting more MONEY back into the wallets of working American citizens! President Donald Trump has eschewed sending our great American soldiers into endless fucking wars, and having OUR BLOOD AND TREASURE spilled dubiously for ethereal political gains--or the corporate gains of arms and technology companies. President Donald Trump has encouraged and supported LAW ENFORCEMENT and LAW AND ORDER--instead of lawless, evil rebels and terrorist groups like BLM and ANTIFA. Oh, that's right! The fucking DEMOCRATS have supported BLM and ANTIFA thugs raping, burning, and destroying American cities! Yeah, suck the truth down you fucking Marxist retards! Wipe that shit off your lips so you can swallow some more, you worthless fucking rats!

Plus, for more REEEING joy, the goddamned Democrats hate the fact that America LOVES President Donald Trump! I have gone all my life, and NEVER seen America love a President like Donald Trump--perhaps aside from President Ronald Reagan, now over 30 years ago. None though, hands down, Americans of all colours and nationalities love President Donald Trump because the American people KNOWS that President Donald Trump cares about America, and is fighting for America's benefit against the fucking SWAMP and the DEEP STATE!

Pack that in your fucking ass if you don't like it!

I know for myself--and many other Americans--President Donald Trump has earned the devotion, the respect, and the love of the American people for many reasons--perhaps first and foremost being, is that unlike a fucking lifetime of worthless, do-nothing politicians that just lie and blow smoke up everyone's asses, President Donald Trump has KEPT HIS PROMISES! AND, he has fought for more, every step of the way. Fighting to establish a better America for everyone. All the while being opposed by the fucking filthy Democrats, goddamned Marxists, and jello-filled RINO'S and other swarmy worms of the deep state bureaucracies. Every step of the way, fighting against them, and the entertainment industry, and the cock-sucking traitor lying MSM that is nothing more than a fucking propaganda arm of the Democrat party.

Fucking choke on the goddamned Marxist lies and bullshit that President Donald Trump doesn't care for America!

Geesus, Leftists are such lying, delusional fucking morons.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Oh, it's worse, Shark.

See, those of us who don't LOVE Trump at least tolerate him, because he's not out to fuck us in the ass.

This is, of course, anathema to Democrats, who have stated their goals of high taxation, the removal of the right of self defense as well as to keep and bear arms, and most recently, their willingness to kowtow to violent radicals who burn down and rob businesses.

It's darkly funny to think back about how the left decried Trump and said he'd get us into a war within a year. Insanely, not only have there not been any new wars but troops are coming home.  The Middle East (with the exception of the Democrats' ally, Iran) is actually calming. Hell, Israel had representatives from the UAE and Bahrain to help light the menorah at the Western Wall -- which made even me stop and check to make sure I wasn't being punked.

But Trump is a warmongering Jew-hater. Sure.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 18, 2020, 11:59:57 AM
A couple of pages ago I mentioned that I supported Donald Trump cuz I considered him to be the "lesser of two evils", valued his accomplishments and believed him to be the only one capable of fighting the "machine", but one thing I should have mentioned as well was that Trump LOVES America. Despite all his flaws and questionable morals, and policies I may not agree with, the one thing you can definitely say about the guy is that he loves the nation and wants it do better, even if you don't agree how he goes about doing it.

But Joe Biden is a war criminal who was complicit in the destruction of various Middle Eastern countries and used his power as the Vice President to personally enrich himself and his family. Kamala Harris is a soulless despicable political beast who locked people up for petty offences, kept people in prison to benefit from their SLAVE labor, and got in the way of an innocent man in death row exonerating himself, and then LAUGHED about it--all to advance her career. Nancy Pelosi actually blocked the 2nd stimulus as a campaign strategy to make Trump look bad and get Biden elected, while MILLIONS of Americans are out of work thanks to the lockdowns THEY (not Trump) pushed--and she actually ADMITED it when she was called out for it, while defending it as a brilliant strategy.

When I say that Donald Trump is the "lesser of two evils", I don't mean that he's irredeemably evil or a monster. I see him more as a tragic figure who is deeply flawed and morally questionable, but still has admirable qualities despite of it, and tries to do better despite his flaws, even if sometimes for egotistic reasons to aggrandize his self image, but ultimately wants what's best for the country that helped make him rich.

But Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, and people like Nancy Pelosi, are irredeemable monsters, who are complete creatures of the establishment, and would do ANYTHING to advance their careers--even ENSLAVE people (which KH technically did) and destroy other countries to advance their interests. These people DO NOT love America. They despise the American public and see us only as TOOLS for their own advancement and SERFS to their interests. They're not in this because they love their country, they're in this because they want POWER.

But Trump didn't need to become President. He was a rich old man who could have just retired and enjoyed his wealth with what remained of his years. And yes, I do believe that part of the reason he ran was in order aggrandize himself and cement his legacy--become more than just a rich mogul and reality TV star--but he also did it because he thought he could do a better job than the Presidents that came before him and he wanted the country to do better. And the only reason he would want that is because he LOVES America. You can say that the man is an egotistic bastard, but you can't say that he doesn't love this country. But I don't think that the same can be said about his opposition.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 18, 2020, 03:27:47 PM
Did Tubesock get around to responding how he was going to prevent death?

Shit man this is important, dont hold out on us now!  How many Billion people do you want to die while we are waiting?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on December 18, 2020, 05:07:51 PM
Did Tubesock get around to responding how he was going to prevent death?

Shit man this is important, dont hold out on us now!  How many Billion people do you want to die while we are waiting?

Quote from: Ambassador Kosh
You are not ready for Immortality.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 18, 2020, 05:13:48 PM
Did Tubesock get around to responding how he was going to prevent death?

Shit man this is important, dont hold out on us now!  How many Billion people do you want to die while we are waiting?

Some deaths are more preventable than others, which is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain, or who isn't arguing in bad faith
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 18, 2020, 05:30:19 PM
Did Tubesock get around to responding how he was going to prevent death?

Shit man this is important, dont hold out on us now!  How many Billion people do you want to die while we are waiting?

Some deaths are more preventable than others, which is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain, or who isn't arguing in bad faith

Like, for example?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 18, 2020, 05:35:40 PM
Did Tubesock get around to responding how he was going to prevent death?

Shit man this is important, dont hold out on us now!  How many Billion people do you want to die while we are waiting?

Some deaths are more preventable than others, which is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain, or who isn't arguing in bad faith

Like, for example?

Just to get the ball rolling, I have one:

Remember that time that Governor of New York Andrew Cuomo sent all of the patients diagnosed with Chinese Wuhan Virus back to their Rest homes where they could spread it to the other vulnerable patients.

Yeah, Trump really fucked up by letting that goofball run loose.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 18, 2020, 05:40:01 PM
Remember that time that Governor of New York Andrew Cuomo sent all of the patients diagnosed with Chinese Wuhan Virus back to their Rest homes where they could spread it to the other vulnerable patients.
Remember when governors Newsom (CA), Murphy (NJ), Whitmer (MI), and Wolf (PA) did the same?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on December 18, 2020, 05:48:09 PM
Geesus, Leftists are such lying, delusional fucking morons.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Yeah, some are. But there are also a lot of lying, delusional Trumpkins who have shown over and over that they are fucking morons. But hey, thanks for reminding me why I usually avoid this Tangency-like cesspit of ignorant rage and delusional bullshit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 18, 2020, 08:48:03 PM
Geesus, Leftists are such lying, delusional fucking morons.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Yeah, some are. But there are also a lot of lying, delusional Trumpkins who have shown over and over that they are fucking morons. But hey, thanks for reminding me why I usually avoid this Tangency-like cesspit of ignorant rage and delusional bullshit.

Greetings!

Oh, I don't know about that. Most Trump supporters I know are excellent people, upstanding, and good Americans. PATRIOTS. Leftist morons are not only stupid and delusional as fuck, more of them are embracing Marxism, so they are a total FAIL.

Leftists are the most ignorant and delusional jackasses around! Rage filled? Well, I don't do the meme thing--but cue up the endless pics and videos of REEEING fucking Libtard women and jello-filled soy-boys for lots of laughs--and a good view into who the fucking Libtards really are.

And fuck "Tangency". Yeah, we have free speech HERE. People are free to oppose fucking censorship, and drooling fucking Marxism, and Leftist idiocy. If it is too rough here for you, I understand, Bren. The political section here is definitely not for everyone.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 18, 2020, 09:05:51 PM
Did Tubesock get around to responding how he was going to prevent death?

Shit man this is important, dont hold out on us now!  How many Billion people do you want to die while we are waiting?

Some deaths are more preventable than others, which is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain, or who isn't arguing in bad faith


Like, for example?

Covid, obviously. Obesity-related deaths. Lung cancer from smoking. Most STDs. The common denominator? A modicum of common sense, along with concern for your own health and/or that of others, is required.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 18, 2020, 09:25:36 PM
Did Tubesock get around to responding how he was going to prevent death?

Shit man this is important, dont hold out on us now!  How many Billion people do you want to die while we are waiting?

Some deaths are more preventable than others, which is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain, or who isn't arguing in bad faith


Like, for example?

Covid, obviously. Obesity-related deaths. Lung cancer from smoking. Most STDs. The common denominator? A modicum of common sense, along with concern for your own health and/or that of others, is required.
You're talking about preventative medicine. It's a complex topic, and prevention of lifestyle-associated diseases is quite different from prevention of communicable diseases. None of this prevents death--since I'm sure some asshole is going to obsess on exact wording--but it does extend life and improve quality of life (if done right).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on December 18, 2020, 11:25:56 PM
Geesus, Leftists are such lying, delusional fucking morons.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Yeah, some are. But there are also a lot of lying, delusional Trumpkins who have shown over and over that they are fucking morons. But hey, thanks for reminding me why I usually avoid this Tangency-like cesspit of ignorant rage and delusional bullshit.

Then leave.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 18, 2020, 11:42:21 PM
Did Tubesock get around to responding how he was going to prevent death?

Shit man this is important, dont hold out on us now!  How many Billion people do you want to die while we are waiting?

Some deaths are more preventable than others, which is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain, or who isn't arguing in bad faith


Like, for example?

Just to get the ball rolling, I have one:

Remember that time that Governor of New York Andrew Cuomo sent all of the patients diagnosed with Chinese Wuhan Virus back to their Rest homes where they could spread it to the other vulnerable patients.

Yeah, Trump really fucked up by letting that goofball run loose.
Shush, now!
For people like Tubesuck, they are NOT called patients nor elderly.
They are officially called USELESS EATERS, and his religion states they must all DIE so as not to take anymore PRECIOUS RESOURCES away from people like HIM.
That's why I call them MURDERERS.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 19, 2020, 12:04:12 AM
Did Tubesock get around to responding how he was going to prevent death?

Shit man this is important, dont hold out on us now!  How many Billion people do you want to die while we are waiting?

Some deaths are more preventable than others, which is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain, or who isn't arguing in bad faith


Like, for example?

Covid, obviously. Obesity-related deaths. Lung cancer from smoking. Most STDs. The common denominator? A modicum of common sense, along with concern for your own health and/or that of others, is required.

So nothing that the President of the US could actually do for you, just things that you have to do for yourself.

It does sound stupid to blame some one else for you being fat.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 19, 2020, 12:05:03 AM
Information for those who SCREAM ~ NO EVIDENCE!
==========================================
The Governors and Mayors are now trapped, they were expecting a bailout if they followed instructions in keeping their cities and town locked down, and now they are struggling.
The economy continues to move forward, now that the vaccine is being distributed the fear of going out will disappear, watch what happens next.
The Deepstate and MSM have fallen right into the constitutional trap.
Trump and the patriots are dripping out the classified information, people are learning the truth.
The focus is now on the Supreme Court and it seems the Supreme Court is now compromised.
Sometimes you must show the people.
Dan Scorvino released a tweet with a pic of Trump in the oval office.
On the flags there were a couple of words.
Lexington and Abeyance.
Message received, the shot heard around the world.

Mayor Bill de Blasio conceded Thursday he’s literally banking his next budget on a federal aid package that’s only likely to pass if Democrats run the table and come up with two big wins in Georgia — and won’t start plotting a ‘Plan B’ to close the projected $3.8 billion deficit until those races are decided.
https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1339951147768025088

The people must see it to believe it, Trump and the patriots are dripping out the information to show exactly what the Deepstate has done since Trump was running for President in 2016! https://twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1339989336981442565
https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1339624778529959941

Mr. Kim is right! NO CONSPIRACY HERE: https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1339826533700026369

Supreme Court... https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1339637980927991808
COMPROMISED! Release the recording! Trump is showing the people the swamp and how they are not following the constitution but following their own personal agenda or controlled agenda! What does this mean? Without rule of law, the constitutional republic cannot continue. The supreme court job is to follow the rule of law, the constitution, if a judge is following another agenda because of he/she does not like someone or because they are being blackmailed and corrupt the supreme court is comprised. Compromised judges must resign!

https://www.theepochtimes.com/trump-senators-should-object-to-electoral-college-votes_3624159.html
President Donald Trump on  urged senators to object to electoral votes during next month’s joint session of Congress.
Trump made the call as he praised Sen.-elect Tommy Tuberville, who suggested this week that he may do so.
Tuberville suggested this week that he would back representatives who have committed to challenging electoral votes on Jan. 6, 2021, when both chambers of Congress meet the count the votes. “You see what’s coming. You’ve been reading about it in the House. We’re going to have to do it in the Senate,” Tuberville said.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/senator-elect-tuberville-suggests-hell-join-objection-to-electoral-votes_3623134.html

The case is being built! The agencys under ratcliffe who are reporting their findings are following orders to report that it was Russia, Ratcliffe put a stop to this. Was this done on purpose to allow the MSM to build the Russia hacking story, its starting to look that way.

The Pentagon discontinued briefings with the Biden Transition Team:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/breaking-big-pentagon-halts-biden-transition-defense-briefings/


https://twitter.com/DanScavino/status/1339757124721782785
https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-fd11ab2/media/3b64acecb1f17667fa9c81701c880879.EpfHGZRXUAI7CbG
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abeyance
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/suspension

There was a time when our children stood at attention, put their hand on their heart, and in one UNITED voice, recited the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. There was a time when STRENGTH and HONOR meant something. There was a time when standing for our FLAG meant something. There was a time when our history (heritage) was taught with PRIDE and RESPECT. There was a time when respect was given to those who serve(d), bled, and died to protect and defend our GOD GIVEN FREEDOM. There was a time when we were GRATEFUL. There was a time when these UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, was UNITED. There was a time when these UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, was UNITED UNDER ONE FLAG. There was a time when, WE, THE PEOPLE, decided our future. There was a time when, WE, THE PEOPLE, had a voice. There was a time when, WE, THE PEOPLE, were UNITED and STRONG. “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.” It is time, WE, THE PEOPLE, reclaim what is rightfully ours. MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ALL THOSE WHO DEFEND AND PROTECT HER AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. WE STAND TOGETHER AS PATRIOTS.
WHERE WE GO ONE, WE GO ALL. HOME OF THE BRAVE.
This is more than party politics. This is about restoring OLD GLORY. This is about saving our land and our people from those who wish us harm. This is about preserving our REPUBLIC. This is about preserving our SAFETY. This is about restoring our STRENGTH. This is about LIFE, LIBERTY, and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. This is about PROTECTING our children. THIS IS ABOUT SAVING AMERICA. We are all God’s children. We are, FATHERS. We are, MOTHERS. We are, DAUGHTERS. We are, SONS. We are, BROTHERS. We are, SISTERS. We do not look at race. We do not look at skin color. We are UNITED in these STATES OF AMERICA. We are, and will always be, PATRIOTS. WE MUST RISE AGAIN. WE MUST UNITE AGAIN. WE MUST FIGHT AGAIN. FOR GOD & COUNTRY. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 19, 2020, 02:08:16 AM
Greetings!

Fucking outstanding, Consolcwby! Very good information! The fucking Marxist globalists must be defeated! All good Americans, all true Patriots, must unite, and resist these evil bastards everywhere! We must fight them in the culture, we must fight them in the courts, we must fight them on the interwebs, we must fight them in our legislatures and halls of government! Soon, my friend, the time may come when we must fight them in the streets! Whatever may come, our sacred Republic must be preserved! We must never let the fucking Communists subvert and overthrow our country!

Keep up the good work, Consolcwby! It is very nice to have these different news sources gathered together like you have here for us. Your efforts are much appreciated!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 19, 2020, 03:29:14 AM
Mr. Kim is right! NO CONSPIRACY HERE: https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1339826533700026369

OK, this is a picture of a bunch of congress members meeting with Xi Jinping. So what? Here's Trump meeting with Xi Jinping:

(https://www.agri-pulse.com/ext/resources/Trump-photos/Trump_Xi_2.jpg)

But I can do better. Here's Trump arranging cyber security with Putin:

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/07/09/14/422AD8D500000578-0-image-a-9_1499605520884.jpg)
Source: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/884016887692234753

That's sounding ominous after the SolarWinds hack.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/russian-hack-against-us-grave-threat-cybersecurity-agency-says

But none of these are evidence of conspiracy. It's not even suspicious circumstance. Politicians can and do meet with foreign politicians, even from rival countries like Russia and China.

Supreme Court... https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1339637980927991808
COMPROMISED! Release the recording! Trump is showing the people the swamp and how they are not following the constitution but following their own personal agenda or controlled agenda! What does this mean? Without rule of law, the constitutional republic cannot continue. The supreme court job is to follow the rule of law, the constitution, if a judge is following another agenda because of he/she does not like someone or because they are being blackmailed and corrupt the supreme court is comprised. Compromised judges must resign!

So what we have here is a Tweet making a claim about a Supreme Court Justice. I agree - release the recording. A released recording or credible sworn eyewitness would be something to discuss. A Twitter post is not.


There was a time when our children stood at attention, put their hand on their heart, and in one UNITED voice, recited the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. There was a time when STRENGTH and HONOR meant something. There was a time when standing for our FLAG meant something. There was a time when our history (heritage) was taught with PRIDE and RESPECT. There was a time when respect was given to those who serve(d), bled, and died to protect and defend our GOD GIVEN FREEDOM. There was a time when we were GRATEFUL.

This is folding into what we're discussing in the national divorce thread, but I grew up in the 1970s going through the Pledge of Allegiance at school. And I'll say this - it *never* meant that students were actually united. What it meant was that everyone was forced to say the same thing. You idealize a time that never actually existed - when all children conform to the STATE and speaking in ONE UNITED VOICE to declare their allegiance. When children bow down and obey whatever they are spoonfed.

That America never existed, and thank God for that. In the America I grew up in, people DISAGREED and struggled with each other, working out their differences in debates and elections. Freedom wasn't just a word. We *used* our freedom to CRITICIZE the government, and engaged in civil disobedience. It was messy and at times ugly, and we screwed stuff up sometimes, but we kept working at it, and kept trying to make things better.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 19, 2020, 05:02:31 AM
Greetings!

Well, when I was growing up in school, we also were united in saying the Pledge of Allegiance, every day. Everyone I knew was patriotic and loved America. It certainly isn't "idealizing an America that never existed". Most people that "protested" against America were viewed as drug-hopped hippies, Leftist pacifists, and Marxist traitors. Merely "Disagreeing" and "Criticizing" America is fine and dandy--but what is the merit of such? Much of the "critique" and "disagreement" that is celebrated by the Left is promoted and pushed by traitors, Marxist demagogues, and others seeking to spread disunity, rebellion, and hatred, then it certainly is not a good thing at all. Yuri Bezmenov--a former KGB agent that defected to America in the late 1960's--describes in detail how much of the social and cultural unrest, critique, and "protesting" in America has been meticulously planned, orchestrated, and promoted by Communists for the express purpose of polluting the American culture and society, undermining the family, corrupt the halls of academia, and sow the seeds of unrest and division.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 19, 2020, 06:13:19 PM
Did Tubesock get around to responding how he was going to prevent death?

Shit man this is important, dont hold out on us now!  How many Billion people do you want to die while we are waiting?

Some deaths are more preventable than others, which is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain, or who isn't arguing in bad faith


Like, for example?

Just to get the ball rolling, I have one:

Remember that time that Governor of New York Andrew Cuomo sent all of the patients diagnosed with Chinese Wuhan Virus back to their Rest homes where they could spread it to the other vulnerable patients.

Yeah, Trump really fucked up by letting that goofball run loose.
Shush, now!
For people like Tubesuck, they are NOT called patients nor elderly.
They are officially called USELESS EATERS, and his religion states they must all DIE so as not to take anymore PRECIOUS RESOURCES away from people like HIM.
That's why I call them MURDERERS.

Nice try, but I voted for the party that DIDN'T think it was OK for the elderly to die so that people could keep eating at Old Town Buffet. I'm also a full-time caregiver for an elderly family member who is incapable of caring for themselves. That's a large part of why I get upset at this administration's callousness and bungling with regard to Covid-19.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on December 19, 2020, 06:14:31 PM


 I'm also a full-time caregiver for an elderly family member who is incapable of caring for themselves. That's a large part of why I get upset at this administration's callousness and bungling with regard to Covid-19.

I too am a Ninja.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 19, 2020, 06:22:24 PM
Greetings!

Well, when I was growing up in school, we also were united in saying the Pledge of Allegiance, every day. Everyone I knew was patriotic and loved America. It certainly isn't "idealizing an America that never existed". Most people that "protested" against America were viewed as drug-hopped hippies, Leftist pacifists, and Marxist traitors.

All this time I assumed you were around my age. But damn dude, how old are you? You gotta be what, mid 60s?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 19, 2020, 06:48:59 PM
Merely "Disagreeing" and "Criticizing" America is fine and dandy--but what is the merit of such? Much of the "critique" and "disagreement" that is celebrated by the Left is promoted and pushed by traitors, Marxist demagogues, and others seeking to spread disunity, rebellion, and hatred, then it certainly is not a good thing at all.

But there is also critique and disagreement celebrated by the Right -- particularly now, as they push to *not* be united behind Joe Biden, and are actively promoting resistance to his taking office. That is *not* joining in unity, and it is rebellion against government control, and it is motivated by hatred of leftist Marxist scum. That's disunity, rebellion, and hatred as you said. Whether someone thinks that's a good thing or not depends on who they are rebelling against and hating.

I didn't bow down and unify with Trump, and I don't expect you to bow down and unify against Biden. At best, we can find some intersection of points we agree on - and pursue those - but we're always going to have significant disagreements.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 19, 2020, 06:51:30 PM
Nice try, but I voted for the party that DIDN'T think it was OK for the elderly to die so that people could keep eating at Old Town Buffet.

No, you just voted for the party that thought it was OK with nominating a senile war criminal who could barely speak and was complicit in the destruction of several Middle Eastern countries, including Libya, where they have slave markets now, along with a VP who locked people up for petty offences, kept people in prison beyond their time to benefit from their slave labor, and tried to keep an innocent man in DEATH ROW from getting the evidence necessary to exonerate himself. And whose speaker of the house blocked a stimulus check for out of work families in the middle of a "pandemic" as a campaign strategy to get those other two monsters elected (she's a fucking monster as well).

Meanwhile you're whining here that Trump didn't violate state rights to FORCE every state in the union to do... IDK WTF what... or personally visit all 330+ MILLION US citizens spread throughout every state and US territory to make sure they were following lockdown protocols.

So stop trying to take the moral high ground, idiot.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 19, 2020, 07:08:51 PM
Greetings!

Well, when I was growing up in school, we also were united in saying the Pledge of Allegiance, every day. Everyone I knew was patriotic and loved America. It certainly isn't "idealizing an America that never existed". Most people that "protested" against America were viewed as drug-hopped hippies, Leftist pacifists, and Marxist traitors.

All this time I assumed you were around my age. But damn dude, how old are you? You gotta be what, mid 60s?

Greetings!

*Laughing* No, I'm not in my mid 60's! I grew up in an area that was very conservative--and very determined to *not* become like San Francisco or Los Angeles. Our city council for example was decidedly committed to *limited growth* for many years. Everyone I grew up with were Conservative, patriotic, veterans, hard working, and supportive of law enforcement and traditional world views, and Christians. People loved America, loved our flag, loved our Constitution, and the Bible. And guns, too!

"Protesters" were seen by virtually everyone as being rabble-rousers, rebels, druggy hippies, and generally as Marxist traitors. My friends, their fathers and mothers, their grandparents, aunts and uncles, and so on, far from celebrating protesting and disagreement and critique, generally took a dim view of such attitudes and behavior.

I also remember well how all of my teachers in school were also Conservative, patriotic, and traditional in their attitudes and world view. It is typical nowadays for teachers to be radical "progressives" now, but in my area, they were all conservative, married, and traditional. They were always encouraging people to be patriotic, disciplined, and law-abiding.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 19, 2020, 07:25:28 PM
Nice try, but I voted for the party that DIDN'T think it was OK for the elderly to die so that people could keep eating at Old Town Buffet. I'm also a full-time caregiver for an elderly family member who is incapable of caring for themselves. That's a large part of why I get upset at this administration's callousness and bungling with regard to Covid-19.

Really? I haven't seen you even mention Cuomo (NY), Newsom (CA), Murphy (NJ), Whitmer (MI), and Wolf (PA) because they are the ones who moved COVID-19 patients into Nursing Homes.

Then again, they are all leftist democrats, so why would you complain about their shitty leadership? It would undermine your holy narrative.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 19, 2020, 08:44:55 PM
Nice try, but I voted for the party that DIDN'T think it was OK for the elderly to die so that people could keep eating at Old Town Buffet. I'm also a full-time caregiver for an elderly family member who is incapable of caring for themselves. That's a large part of why I get upset at this administration's callousness and bungling with regard to Covid-19.

Really? I haven't seen you even mention Cuomo (NY), Newsom (CA), Murphy (NJ), Whitmer (MI), and Wolf (PA) because they are the ones who moved COVID-19 patients into Nursing Homes.

Then again, they are all leftist democrats, so why would you complain about their shitty leadership? It would undermine your holy narrative.

It was obviously a horrible idea to move Covid patients to nursing homes. Not even debatable.

However, none of that changes the fact that Trump fucked this up so badly that hospitals were/are overflowing. I am in no way justifying the decisions of any state governments who made such a dangerous and foolish decision. But, had Covid been handled competently in the first place, or would have been a moot point.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 19, 2020, 08:45:48 PM


 I'm also a full-time caregiver for an elderly family member who is incapable of caring for themselves. That's a large part of why I get upset at this administration's callousness and bungling with regard to Covid-19.

I too am a Ninja.

The fact that you find familial responsibility so unbelievable says more about you than it does about me.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 19, 2020, 11:01:32 PM
You, know, I sometimes just want to rant and make an ass of myself. That's why I watch yooboob! People seem to do it for me. I don't always agree with them, but sometimes I find a GEM! Here is someone who rants, raves, and rocks. He's gonna talk about the SUPREME COURT and how it's FUCKING THIS ELECTION UP:


And to @SHARK and others who find my posts useful: Thank you! I have been waiting to speak about all this for nearly a decade, and sometime I will tell you all my story. Until then, buckle-up! It's gonna be a bumpy ride to AMERICA'S VICTORY!

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on December 19, 2020, 11:31:01 PM

The fact that you find familial responsibility so unbelievable says more about you than it does about me.

The fact that you think your care for an elderly family member means more than bupkiss in a political debate says more about you than it does about me.

True or not.










Though, the fact that you thought I meant anything other than "I am a Ninja" when I said "I am a Ninja" is remarkable. Dude, that was the secret handshake. You were supposed to respond by dislocating your left anterior crucial ligament, spinning widdershins and barking like a dog.  smh.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 20, 2020, 12:26:18 AM
*Waiting on @Tubesock to accuse @Spike of cultural appropriation...*
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 20, 2020, 12:50:17 AM
Greetings!

Be Like Water provides a brief interview with MAGA HULK, in Southern California.

MAGA HULK is a very cool dude, and an awesome American!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 20, 2020, 01:13:47 AM
Nice try, but I voted for the party that DIDN'T think it was OK for the elderly to die so that people could keep eating at Old Town Buffet. I'm also a full-time caregiver for an elderly family member who is incapable of caring for themselves. That's a large part of why I get upset at this administration's callousness and bungling with regard to Covid-19.

Really? I haven't seen you even mention Cuomo (NY), Newsom (CA), Murphy (NJ), Whitmer (MI), and Wolf (PA) because they are the ones who moved COVID-19 patients into Nursing Homes.

Then again, they are all leftist democrats, so why would you complain about their shitty leadership? It would undermine your holy narrative.

It was obviously a horrible idea to move Covid patients to nursing homes. Not even debatable.

However, none of that changes the fact that Trump fucked this up so badly that hospitals were/are overflowing. I am in no way justifying the decisions of any state governments who made such a dangerous and foolish decision. But, had Covid been handled competently in the first place, or would have been a moot point.

What do you think Trump and the rest of the Federal government should have done differently?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 20, 2020, 01:30:12 AM

The fact that you find familial responsibility so unbelievable says more about you than it does about me.

The fact that you think your care for an elderly family member means more than bupkiss in a political debate says more about you than it does about me.



At that point, it was no longer a political debate. I was being accused of being a murderer and of not viewing the elderly as human beings by someone who has never met me.

In other news, wack job Lou Dobbs had to walk back his shit-talking of Smartmatic votingg machines. Seems the mere threat of a lawsuit from the company was enough to get him to debunk HIMSELF on national TV. Fucking lol.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 20, 2020, 01:32:38 AM
Nice try, but I voted for the party that DIDN'T think it was OK for the elderly to die so that people could keep eating at Old Town Buffet. I'm also a full-time caregiver for an elderly family member who is incapable of caring for themselves. That's a large part of why I get upset at this administration's callousness and bungling with regard to Covid-19.

Really? I haven't seen you even mention Cuomo (NY), Newsom (CA), Murphy (NJ), Whitmer (MI), and Wolf (PA) because they are the ones who moved COVID-19 patients into Nursing Homes.

Then again, they are all leftist democrats, so why would you complain about their shitty leadership? It would undermine your holy narrative.

It was obviously a horrible idea to move Covid patients to nursing homes. Not even debatable.

However, none of that changes the fact that Trump fucked this up so badly that hospitals were/are overflowing. I am in no way justifying the decisions of any state governments who made such a dangerous and foolish decision. But, had Covid been handled competently in the first place, or would have been a moot point.

What do you think Trump and the rest of the Federal government should have done differently?

Not fired the Pandemic response team?

Used the playbook left by the Obama administration?

Not left PPE distribution up to Jared and his frat buddies?

Not downplayed the severity and danger of the virus?

Encouraged people to behave safely and responsibly?

For starters.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 20, 2020, 02:18:06 AM
Nice try, but I voted for the party that DIDN'T think it was OK for the elderly to die so that people could keep eating at Old Town Buffet. I'm also a full-time caregiver for an elderly family member who is incapable of caring for themselves. That's a large part of why I get upset at this administration's callousness and bungling with regard to Covid-19.

Really? I haven't seen you even mention Cuomo (NY), Newsom (CA), Murphy (NJ), Whitmer (MI), and Wolf (PA) because they are the ones who moved COVID-19 patients into Nursing Homes.

Then again, they are all leftist democrats, so why would you complain about their shitty leadership? It would undermine your holy narrative.

It was obviously a horrible idea to move Covid patients to nursing homes. Not even debatable.

However, none of that changes the fact that Trump fucked this up so badly that hospitals were/are overflowing. I am in no way justifying the decisions of any state governments who made such a dangerous and foolish decision. But, had Covid been handled competently in the first place, or would have been a moot point.

What do you think Trump and the rest of the Federal government should have done differently?

Not fired the Pandemic response team?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/10/fact-check-white-house-didnt-fire-pandemic-response-2018/3437356001/

Quote
Used the playbook left by the Obama administration?

What's different in the Obama playbook compared to how it was actually handled?

Quote
Not left PPE distribution up to Jared and his frat buddies?

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/08/25/trump-administration-release-1-5-million-n95-respirators-from-strategic-national-stockpile-distribution-nursing-homes.html

Quote
Not downplayed the severity and danger of the virus?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-press-secretary-regarding-presidents-coronavirus-task-force/

Quote
Encouraged people to behave safely and responsibly?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/21/president-trump-urges-americans-to-wear-masks-to-prevent-the-spread-of-the-coronavirus.html
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 20, 2020, 09:39:45 AM
Nice try, but I voted for the party that DIDN'T think it was OK for the elderly to die so that people could keep eating at Old Town Buffet. I'm also a full-time caregiver for an elderly family member who is incapable of caring for themselves. That's a large part of why I get upset at this administration's callousness and bungling with regard to Covid-19.

Really? I haven't seen you even mention Cuomo (NY), Newsom (CA), Murphy (NJ), Whitmer (MI), and Wolf (PA) because they are the ones who moved COVID-19 patients into Nursing Homes.

Then again, they are all leftist democrats, so why would you complain about their shitty leadership? It would undermine your holy narrative.

It was obviously a horrible idea to move Covid patients to nursing homes. Not even debatable.

However, none of that changes the fact that Trump fucked this up so badly that hospitals were/are overflowing. I am in no way justifying the decisions of any state governments who made such a dangerous and foolish decision. But, had Covid been handled competently in the first place, or would have been a moot point.

What do you think Trump and the rest of the Federal government should have done differently?

Not fired the Pandemic response team?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/10/fact-check-white-house-didnt-fire-pandemic-response-2018/3437356001/

Quote
Used the playbook left by the Obama administration?

What's different in the Obama playbook compared to how it was actually handled?

Quote
Not left PPE distribution up to Jared and his frat buddies?

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/08/25/trump-administration-release-1-5-million-n95-respirators-from-strategic-national-stockpile-distribution-nursing-homes.html

Quote
Not downplayed the severity and danger of the virus?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-press-secretary-regarding-presidents-coronavirus-task-force/

Quote
Encouraged people to behave safely and responsibly?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/21/president-trump-urges-americans-to-wear-masks-to-prevent-the-spread-of-the-coronavirus.html

Nice cherry picking, buy for every article you cite about the government's urging people to wear masks and take precautions, there are dozens of example of Republicans saying and doing the opposite. Trump didn't catch Vivid because he was taking the proper safety measures. At the end of the day, nothing will change your mind or mine.

As for the pandemic response plan, numerous current and former government employees have spoken to this. 30 seconds of Googling will answer your own question for you. Hell, even Mitch McConnell was forced to admit that the former admin had left detailed pandemic instructions.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/14/mcconnell-obama-playbook-pandemic-259969

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/run-plays-officials-trump-administration-pandemic-playbooks/story?id=71999769
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 20, 2020, 09:51:07 AM
Not fired the Pandemic response team?
He didn't fire the pandemic response team, that's a myth. It was based on an article in the Washington Post, (https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/nsc-pandemic-office-trump-closed/2020/03/13/a70de09c-6491-11ea-acca-80c22bbee96f_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_6) but three days later they came out with another article (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/?itid=lk_inline_manual_9) that basically said the first article was a lie. To no one's surprise given the bias of the media, the first article was widely cited in other news, the second article was not.

What happened is the pandemic response team was restructured. The head of the directorate (Ziemer) moved to a new position (something that had been scheduled for a long time), and was replaced with an even more senior official (deputy assistant to the president instead of senior director) who had even more clout in Washington, which is generally a good thing. They were also combined with the bioterrorism unit. The most important thing about that change is based on how security is handled at the directorate level. Each directorate is in its own "vault", so classified material can be left on desks overnight. To pass between vaults, staff need to go through a whole security check. By putting them together in the same unit, they could now leave materials out and interact with each other without having to pass through security every time. Not only is this generally a good thing, but the reorganized resulted in the completion of several projects that had been stalled due to bureaucratic infighting, so there's clear evidence it worked in this specific case. In addition, the former head who left specifically said his "dream team" remained intact.

There's an argument to be made that natural pandemics are different enough from bioterrorism that they should be a separate unit, but there's no clear-cut better solution. Opinions are split. But that's not what most of the media ran with, they just reported the highly biased and overly simplistic lie. Also note Trump stood up the pandemic task force, charged with specifically addressing COVID-19, on January 29, very early in the pandemic. And that given Trump's managerial style, whether the pandemic task force was a separate directorate wouldn't have mattered in the slightest. He would have just appointed his own team, anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 20, 2020, 09:53:55 AM
At the end of the day, nothing will change your mind or mine.
That's horrific.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 20, 2020, 10:45:28 AM
Nice cherry picking,

Right back at ya  ;)

buy for every article you cite about the government's urging people to wear masks and take precautions, there are dozens of example of Republicans saying and doing the opposite.

And for every example of Republicans saying the opposite AFTER the lockdowns and other measures (including the use of masks) were shown to have questionable effectiveness you will find a dozen mainstream media articles downplaying the severity of the virus or the need to wear masks early on BECAUSE it was Republicans and so-called "conspiracy theorists" on the internet who were originally worrying about the virus and saying that people should weak masks, or even being AWARE of the potential threat, because NOBODY else wanted to hear it. But I'm sure it was Trump who was 100% responsible for BLASTING the public with conflicting messages 24/7 since this whole shitshow started.

At the end of the day, nothing will change your mind or mine.

Because you have your own version of reality and aren't providing anything of substance to counter anything anyone else is saying, only harping on that "Trump should've done """SOMETHING""". WHAAHHH!!!", whining on hindsight, and failing to substantiate WTF Trump could possibly, REALISTICALLY have done.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on December 20, 2020, 10:49:33 AM


At that point, it was no longer a political debate. I was being accused of being a murderer and of not viewing the elderly as human beings by someone who has never met me.

Nonsense. Aside from the fact that you signed onto this forum to come into purely political debates with all rhetorical guns blazing, which makes this statement of your hypocritical on the face of it, the mere fact that you don't like the tone of the discussion does not alter its nature in the least.  Likewise, I've seen, if not you than your side, of the debate accuse people of being murders for simply not wearing masks or choosing to wait on the untested vaccine that has probably already killed that one nurse that fainted during the press conference. 

On top of that, not only do you seem to think that you personally knowing and caring for an elderly person gives you some sort of political authority over the rest of us, but apparently you are so deluded as to assume that the vast majority (if any) of us... aside from your sainted self... do not view the elderly as human!   



Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 20, 2020, 11:12:07 AM
Nice try, but I voted for the party that DIDN'T think it was OK for the elderly to die so that people could keep eating at Old Town Buffet. I'm also a full-time caregiver for an elderly family member who is incapable of caring for themselves. That's a large part of why I get upset at this administration's callousness and bungling with regard to Covid-19.

Really? I haven't seen you even mention Cuomo (NY), Newsom (CA), Murphy (NJ), Whitmer (MI), and Wolf (PA) because they are the ones who moved COVID-19 patients into Nursing Homes.

Then again, they are all leftist democrats, so why would you complain about their shitty leadership? It would undermine your holy narrative.

It was obviously a horrible idea to move Covid patients to nursing homes. Not even debatable.

However, none of that changes the fact that Trump fucked this up so badly that hospitals were/are overflowing. I am in no way justifying the decisions of any state governments who made such a dangerous and foolish decision. But, had Covid been handled competently in the first place, or would have been a moot point.

What do you think Trump and the rest of the Federal government should have done differently?

Not fired the Pandemic response team?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/10/fact-check-white-house-didnt-fire-pandemic-response-2018/3437356001/

Quote
Used the playbook left by the Obama administration?

What's different in the Obama playbook compared to how it was actually handled?

Quote
Not left PPE distribution up to Jared and his frat buddies?

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/08/25/trump-administration-release-1-5-million-n95-respirators-from-strategic-national-stockpile-distribution-nursing-homes.html

Quote
Not downplayed the severity and danger of the virus?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-press-secretary-regarding-presidents-coronavirus-task-force/

Quote
Encouraged people to behave safely and responsibly?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/21/president-trump-urges-americans-to-wear-masks-to-prevent-the-spread-of-the-coronavirus.html

Nice cherry picking, buy for every article you cite about the government's urging people to wear masks and take precautions, there are dozens of example of Republicans saying and doing the opposite. Trump didn't catch Vivid because he was taking the proper safety measures. At the end of the day, nothing will change your mind or mine.


Speak for yourself. I have changed my mind about pretty drastic fundamental things from time to time, and I take pains to not be too jingoistic. But as you say, if nothing will change your mind...

Trump 2024. Suck it, beyotch.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 20, 2020, 11:17:27 AM
Clearly, the solution was for Trump to have Cuomo killed and a small, fuzzy kitten installed as NY governor. It couldn't be worse.

Jokes aside, the left needs to figure out which side of federalism it wants to be on, because they can't make up their fucking minds (assuming they have any). Either the feds and the president can step in when the state isn't picking up the slack, in which case yes, Trump should bear some responsibility for not sending the 82nd Airborne in to take Andrew Emmy Cuomo into custody.

Or... the feds can't do that, and while there might have been things Trump could do at the federal level, the fact is the buck stopped at the state level with the governors. Which puts the whole onus on Cuomo, Whitmer, et. al.

We saw this with Katrina. Yes, Michael Brown was a political appointee and Dubya had an amazing knack for saying the wrong thing at the wrong time.

But fun fact: FEMA can't just roll in on its own. You have to call it in, and it takes time to get rolling. Where were the state and local authorities for NOLA? What were THEY doing?

Responsibility starts with YOURSELF. Not 'the government'.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on December 20, 2020, 12:28:36 PM
Greetings!

Oh, I don't know about that. Most Trump supporters I know are excellent people, upstanding, and good Americans.
Who keep drinking the cool aid and supporting a lying, delusional, traitor who hates democracy and America. That's not patriotic, much less, PATRIOTIC.

And as just one example of their, and your, delusion is the ridiculously silly belief that everyone who doesn't like Fat Donnie the LOSER is a Marxist. Total FAIL. Very SAD.


Quote
If it is too rough here for you, I understand, Bren. The political section here is definitely not for everyone.
It's not too rough. The moronic conspiratorial whining from the Trumpists isn't rough or tough. It's SAD. I'm not looking forward to next four years of crying and whining about their feelings from the Trumpists.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 20, 2020, 01:20:53 PM
But since you want to air it out, the only bizarre PM between us ever was yours where you attacked me for criticizing someone you believed had a PhD (still don't know whom you meant in a forum where almost everyone is pseudonymous); a nice combination of argument from authority and ignorance of the fallibility of actual PhDs.
I have a PhD, don't know about anyone else here. And you started that PM conversation.

The PM I sent you? In order to avoid embarrassing you further in public, I detailed another distortion/reading failure over what was written in a post. You clutched your pearls over someone

I also have a PhD, and after my many years in acadmeia your naive belief that PhDs never misread anything is just super adorable. jhkim also has a PhD (he is one of the few posters to identify himself at this site sufficiently to verify that) and I believe he misread my post earlier in this thread regarding Brad's link about Project Veritas. These posts are not peer-reviewed submissions, and if you really had much experience of PhDs you would know that they can say dumb things off the cuff. The rampantly dishonest ones are a bit rarer, so pat yourself on the back for that, if you can reach it.

Here's a few associated with the current administration who have PhDs and spout dishonest or stupid stuff, like you do.

Dr. Peter Navarro
This might be the most embarrassing document created by a White House staffer (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/12/18/this-might-be-most-embarrassing-document-created-by-white-house-staffer/)
Quote
If Navarro sincerely believes this implies questionable activity, then his “report” should be treated as inherently ridiculous, since he hasn’t done his homework. If he doesn’t believe his insinuations, then the report shouldn’t be taken seriously, because it’s obviously aimed at misleading the reader.

Dr. Kevin Hassett
White House economic adviser Kevin Hassett created a baffling 'cubic model' showing coronavirus deaths would hit 0 by May 15. It turns out he used a basic Excel function for his controversial projection. (https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-advisor-kevin-hassett-excel-function-cubic-model-coronavirus-2020-5)

Dr. Sebastian Gorka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Gorka#Credentials
Quote
A number of academics and policymakers questioned Gorka's knowledge of foreign policy issues, his academic credentials and his professional behavior.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 20, 2020, 01:36:51 PM
The judges haven't even looked at any of the evidence, but dismissed every case on the grounds of things such as improper filing, rather than the merits of them.

This is blatantly false. I already posted a refutation of that claim, quoted below.

To reiterate briefly for Trondies,
Quote from: Judge Brett Ludwig, a Trump appointee
This Court has allowed plaintiff the chance to make his case and he has lost on the merits.
Page 22 at https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.92761/gov.uscourts.wied.92761.134.0_4.pdf

Such as people claiming that the courts specifically said there's nothing there, when back in the real world courts can dismiss a case for any number of reasons (ranging from judge bias to improper presentation of the claims), not necessarily because there's nothing there.

Coincidentally, I was just reading this:
https://reason.com/volokh/2020/12/13/another-court-loss-for-trump-campaign-in-wisconsin/
Quote
On Saturday, a federal district court judge in Wisconsin issued an opinion explaining why, on the merits, Texas's substantive arguments were without merit. And, as occurred on the Supreme Court, a judge appointed by President Trump, Brett Ludwig, ruled against him.

...

Dozens of election suits have been filed, and dozens of judges of all political stripes and judicial philosophies have ruled against the claims put forward by the Trump campaign and its allies.

Dismissing a case is saying there's nothing there. What do you think the courts should have found?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 20, 2020, 02:47:28 PM
Not fired the Pandemic response team?
He didn't fire the pandemic response team, that's a myth. It was based on an article in the Washington Post, (https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/nsc-pandemic-office-trump-closed/2020/03/13/a70de09c-6491-11ea-acca-80c22bbee96f_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_6) but three days later they came out with another article (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/?itid=lk_inline_manual_9) that basically said the first article was a lie. To no one's surprise given the bias of the media, the first article was widely cited in other news, the second article was not.

The "second article" is an opinion piece by a former Trump advisor, Tim Morrison, published on 3/16/2020. It appears to be a response to an opinion piece "I ran the White House pandemic office. Trump closed it." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/nsc-pandemic-office-trump-closed/2020/03/13/a70de09c-6491-11ea-acca-80c22bbee96f_story.html) from 3/13/2020 by Beth Cameron, who headed the White House’s National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense under Obama.

The fact check that Ratman_tf posted a link to was dated September 2020, and does cite the opinion piece by Morrison but not the one by Cameron. But it still says "disbanded" and only characterizes "President Trump fired the 'entire' pandemic response team in 2018" as Partly False, mostly on the quibbles that some resigned and some were reassigned elsewhere in the Trump administration. People who are fired are sometimes said to have resigned, and characterizing "disbanding" as "firing" is simple rhetorical hyperbole, and in any case it's not there, is it?

There are many other steps the Trump administration declined to take, such as refilling the national stockpile that Republicans blocked Obama from doing or consistently encouraging the use of masks which have been shown to reduce the spread of this disease, and other things that they shouldn't have done, like pushing for states to open prematurely or basing policy decisions on political considerations.

The internet is full of posters pretending to be something they're not to claim more authority for their positions, like Dean Browning posting that he was a gay black guy when he forgot to switch to his sockpuppet account, or like the copypasta Twitter accounts pretending to be lifelong Democrats who switched to being Republican over some trivial fake outrage, all in the exact same words.

It is apparent that Pat sits squarely in that tradition. Maybe Pat the non-right-winger is insane and posts randomly, but by chance always seeming right-wing; maybe Pat the non-right-winger is actually an anarchist who sees defending Donald Trump as the shortest path to the destruction of the US Constitution. But the simplest explanation is that Pat is just a right-winger.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 20, 2020, 02:57:19 PM
I have a PhD.

I also have a PhD

Nice, everyone has a PhD.

For the record my pronouns are: Doctor, Doctor and Doctor because I self identify as a Doctor.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 20, 2020, 03:00:57 PM
Not fired the Pandemic response team?

Used the playbook left by the Obama administration?

Not left PPE distribution up to Jared and his frat buddies?

Not downplayed the severity and danger of the virus?

Encouraged people to behave safely and responsibly?

For starters.

Oh please.  When Trump was restricting travel from China, Nancy Pelosi was encouraging people to mass together in China Town to, I assume, spread the virus more efficiently.

And as for Federal distribution of PPE, remember when Doctors had to choose which patients got a Ventilator and which patients just had to die?  No, me neither.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 20, 2020, 03:33:02 PM
The "second article" is an opinion piece by a former Trump advisor, Tim Morrison, published on 3/16/2020. It appears to be a response to an opinion piece "I ran the White House pandemic office. Trump closed it." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/nsc-pandemic-office-trump-closed/2020/03/13/a70de09c-6491-11ea-acca-80c22bbee96f_story.html) from 3/13/2020 by Beth Cameron, who headed the White House’s National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense under Obama.
Yes, I referred to both, and linked to both. Kind of funny how you're pretending I'm only presenting one side, when not only did I link to both of the articles, but the entire thrust of my paragraph was to present both of them in balance.

The fact check that Ratman_tf posted a link to was dated September 2020, and does cite the opinion piece by Morrison but not the one by Cameron. But it still says "disbanded" and only characterizes "President Trump fired the 'entire' pandemic response team in 2018" as Partly False, mostly on the quibbles that some resigned and some were reassigned elsewhere in the Trump administration. People who are fired are sometimes said to have resigned, and characterizing "disbanding" as "firing" is simple rhetorical hyperbole, and in any case it's not there, is it?
I also used that article as a reference. In fact, even though I didn't link it (it just summarizes the elements from the previous two articles, so it seemed redundant), I used it as my primary reference. Literally everything I said came from that article. I essentially summarized the key elements.

Unlike you. You're just cherry picking some general statements and pretending that somehow contradicts the bulk of the article. Which is nonsense, the article isn't contradicting itself. You're just trying to spin it one way, with an obvious agenda. Wonder what that agenda could be... ?

The internet is full of posters pretending to be something they're not to claim more authority for their positions, like Dean Browning posting that he was a gay black guy when he forgot to switch to his sockpuppet account, or like the copypasta Twitter accounts pretending to be lifelong Democrats who switched to being Republican over some trivial fake outrage, all in the exact same words.

It is apparent that Pat sits squarely in that tradition. Maybe Pat the non-right-winger is insane and posts randomly, but by chance always seeming right-wing; maybe Pat the non-right-winger is actually an anarchist who sees defending Donald Trump as the shortest path to the destruction of the US Constitution. But the simplest explanation is that Pat is just a right-winger.
... oh, this again.

It is apparent you're a fucking idiot.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 20, 2020, 05:28:45 PM
WaPo opinion piece on how Republicans are rats.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpsCkLwXUAAaCHS?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

Washington. Post.

I feel quite fine calling Democrats vermin who need to be exterminated now. Race you all to the bottom!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 20, 2020, 07:23:58 PM

The PM I sent you? In order to avoid embarrassing you further in public, I detailed another distortion/reading failure over what was written in a post. You clutched your pearls over someone


I think we both know why you switched to PM. Because you were flipping out, misreading others while accusing others of being unable to read, and making a general fool of yourself for everyone to see. Please show me where I said "PhDs never misread anything". Of course I never said anything of the kind. I have been criticizing others with PhD, in my papers and elsewhere, so that whole thing is just empty words again. BTW it's very interesting which parts of my posts you don't want to quote.   
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 20, 2020, 09:59:24 PM
I just got my PhD a few minutes ago. I wrote it myself in crayon. Damn though, that Helvetica font they use sure is hard to emulate by hand! I also had it undersigned by the homeless guy down the street who swears he's Henry Kissinger - I have no proof NOT to believe him! He put real LATIN on it as well: Veni, vidi, ego venit iterum
------------------------------------
FRAUD ALERT! FRAUD ALERT!
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/mi-sec-state-official-caught-video-telling-volunteers-count-multiple-ballots-signature-audit-votes-antrim-county/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/breaking-antrim-co-forensic-report-bombshell-reveals-dominion-machines-set-68-05-error-ratemeaning-68-05-ballots-sent-mass-adjudication-giving-individuals-ma/
THE REPORT:
After the forensic examination of 16 Dominion Voting machines in Antrim, Co., MI, Allied Security Operations Group has concluded that the Dominion Voting machines were assigned a 68.05% error rate. DePerno explained that when ballots are put through the machine, a whopping 68.05% error rate means that 68.05% of the ballots are sent for bulk adjudication, which means they collect the ballots in a folder. “The ballots are sent somewhere where people in another location can change the vote,” DePerno explained. The allowable election error rate established by the Federal Election Commission guidelines is 1 in 250,000 ballots or .0008%. Following the  findings by Mr. DePerno and his team of IT experts, a “risk-limited audit” was ordered by Sec. of State Benson. Constitutional Attorney Matt DePerno was invited to observe the “risk-limiting audit” of Antrim County’s vote that took place yesterday in the Kearney Twp. hall in Bellaire, MI., where 6 officials from the Secretary of State continuously walked around the room observing and correcting the counters who dared to stray from their objectives.
--------
Mr. DePerno, who acted as an observer to the “risk-limited audit,” doesn’t agree with Ms. Benson about the integrity of Michigan’s election and has provided us with video and photographic evidence to prove that he was again able to debunk her statement about the “most secure election in our nation’s history.” The first video provided by Matthew DePerno shows a bin of ballots from Mancelona Township, Precinct #1. The bin was delivered to three of the 20 bi-partisan volunteers that included several Antrim Co. city clerks who agreed to assist with the “risk-limited audit.” Inside the bin, tabulated ballots were mixed in with ballots that were never tabulated, and several blank ballots were mixed in as well. Mr. DePerno referred to the bin of ballots as “an absolute mess!” On December 16, we reported about photographs taken at Mancelona Township’s Precinct #1 on November 27, 2020, that showed both of the security seals on the Dominion Voting machine were missing.

The second video was taken at a table where ballots were being counted in Helena Twp. The volunteers can be seen questioning why there were fewer ballots in the bin than the original number that was recorded in the previous recount? Shortly after asking the question, a male SOS official approached the table with a bag marked “spoiled ballots” and told them to count them. ATtorney Matt DePerno witnessed the unidentified male SOS rep pulling the “spoiled ballot bag out of the bin and delivering it to the volunteers who were “auditing” the ballots. DePerno also witnessed the SOS official telling them to add the “spoiled ballots” to the count.

The third video was taken at a table where the ballots from Central Lake Twp. were being counted. In the video, a male counter can be seen questioning “multiple ballots with the same signature.” According to Matthew DePerno, 138 ballots had write-in-votes where the penmanship was exactly the same. In the video below, the SOS official can be seen demanding that the counters ignore what they believe is voter fraud and count the ballots. At no point does the SOS official assure them that the issue of the multiple potentially fraudulent ballots will be addressed, but instead demands that they count them as if they were all legitimate ballots.

https://twitter.com/gatewaypundit/status/1340037793595203585
(https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-fd11ab2/media/bbd2930e3d1aac383aebf52f50803d88.EprgVKPW4AAxxIB)
“I was born for the storm, and a calm does not suit me.” Andrew Jackson

CONCOMMS:
------------------
How do you ensure those prosecuted [non military] would receive an impartial judgement based on the RULE OF LAW?
Think Federal Judge rulings [obstruction] [POTUS’ granted CONSTITUTIONAL authority].
How do you ensure ‘appeals’ to the U.S. Supreme Court are evaluated impartially > based on the RULE OF LAW?
Think Justice K (5 to 4).
Military Law v Criminal Law
“Enemy Combatant”
How do you navigate around installed BLOCKADE?How do you REMOVE installed BLOCKADE?
Has a president ever called out the MSM before TRUMP?
Whereas there has been wickedly and traitorously printed and published this morning in the New York World and New York Journal of Commerce, newspapers printed and published in the city of New York, a false and spurious proclamation purporting to be signed by the President and to be countersigned by the Secretary of State, which publication is of a treasonable nature, designed to give aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States and to the rebels now at war against the Government and their aiders and abettors, you are therefore hereby commanded forthwith to arrest and imprison in any fort or military prison in your command the editors, proprietors, and publishers of the aforesaid newspapers, and all such persons as, after public notice has been given of the falsehood of said publication, print and publish the same with intent to give aid and comfort to the enemy; and you will hold the persons so arrested in close custody until they can be brought to trial before a military commission for their offense. You will also take possession by military force of the printing establishments of the New York World and Journal of Commerce, and hold the same until further orders, and prohibit any further publication therefrom. -- A. LINCOLN.

WWG1WGA ~ MAGA!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on December 21, 2020, 12:09:34 AM
Is this thread still going?   This shit is over.  This is just cope at this point.  Those who like Trump will get plenty of him when he grows the balls to come out of hiding. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 21, 2020, 01:41:49 PM
Is this thread still going?   This shit is over.  This is just cope at this point.  Those who like Trump will get plenty of him when he grows the balls to come out of hiding.
I actually agree with this one. Would not be surprised if we hear more from Trump's ranting and raving than from Biden over the next few years. :D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 21, 2020, 02:04:50 PM
Is this thread still going?   This shit is over.  This is just cope at this point.  Those who like Trump will get plenty of him when he grows the balls to come out of hiding.
I actually agree with this one. Would not be surprised if we hear more from Trump's ranting and raving than from Biden over the next few years. :D
I'm positive that those of us who supported Trump will get over it at least as quickly as the people who opposed him did back in 2016.  ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 21, 2020, 02:37:17 PM
Is this thread still going?   This shit is over.  This is just cope at this point.  Those who like Trump will get plenty of him when he grows the balls to come out of hiding.
I actually agree with this one. Would not be surprised if we hear more from Trump's ranting and raving than from Biden over the next few years. :D
I'm positive that those of us who supported Trump will get over it at least as quickly as the people who opposed him did back in 2016.  ;)
We're doomed
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 21, 2020, 02:41:43 PM
Is this thread still going?   This shit is over.  This is just cope at this point.  Those who like Trump will get plenty of him when he grows the balls to come out of hiding.
I actually agree with this one. Would not be surprised if we hear more from Trump's ranting and raving than from Biden over the next few years. :D
I'm positive that those of us who supported Trump will get over it at least as quickly as the people who opposed him did back in 2016.  ;)
We're doomed

You chose your path with obvious conviction, no good whining about it now.  :)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 21, 2020, 03:04:30 PM
Not downplayed the severity and danger of the virus?
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-press-secretary-regarding-presidents-coronavirus-task-force/

Encouraged people to behave safely and responsibly?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/21/president-trump-urges-americans-to-wear-masks-to-prevent-the-spread-of-the-coronavirus.html

This probably belongs in the covid thread rather than election commentary, but I think it's pretty obvious that Trump and Trump supporters have been downplaying the virus, while Democrats have been playing up the virus. Regardless of who is right, that has been the general pattern. The covid thread on this forum started back in May - it has a good sampling of the contrast.

Ratman, it's interesting that you cite "Trump urges wearing masks" as an example of encouraging people to behave safely and responsibly. There was indeed a point where Trump urged Americans to wear masks in July. However, it hasn't been a consistent message, as evidenced by Trump supporters here in this forum often opposing mask-wearing. Again, regardless of whether who is correct or not. The opponents here to mask-wearing are saying that it is safe and responsible to *not* wear a mask. But your example is just highlighting the inconsistency of the message.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 21, 2020, 03:17:40 PM
If you believe the media, Trumps most consistent messaging was to drink bleach.

Luckily no one here was stupid enough to believe that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 21, 2020, 04:12:46 PM
If you believe the media, Trumps most consistent messaging was to drink bleach.

Luckily no one here was stupid enough to believe that.

Yeah that was another massive facepalm moment from the media. Of course Trump being Trump didn't phrase it anywhere near clarity (antiviral drug cocktail would not be something I ever expect him to say)
I think it started with a poorly phrased "can we use some sort of disinfectant internally?" ->"OMG Trump says we should all experiment with drinking bleach, true story!"
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 21, 2020, 05:48:00 PM
He was referring to light therapy:

"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"

He continued.

"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on December 21, 2020, 07:06:25 PM
If you believe the media, Trumps most consistent messaging was to drink bleach.

Luckily no one here was stupid enough to believe that.

Seriously that was unbelievable.  The headline should have been POTUS TRUMP SAYS SOMETHING DUMB, DENIES IT NEXT DAY.  END OF STORY. Instead we get 6 months of medical experts coming on TV to discuss the dangers of internal use of household cleaners. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 21, 2020, 07:50:32 PM
If you believe the media, Trumps most consistent messaging was to drink bleach.

Luckily no one here was stupid enough to believe that.

Calls To Poison Centers Spike After The President’s Comments About Using Disinfectants To Treat Coronavirus (https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/04/25/calls-to-poison-centers-spike--after-the-presidents-comments-about-using-disinfectants-to-treat-coronavirus/?sh=2db289521157)

After Trump Hypes Chloroquine as Covid-19 Cure, a Man Dies Swallowing a Version of the Chemical Used in Fish Tanks (https://theintercept.com/2020/03/24/trump-hyped-chloroquine-cure-covid-19-man-arizona-took-died/)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 21, 2020, 09:10:10 PM
If you believe the media, Trumps most consistent messaging was to drink bleach.

Luckily no one here was stupid enough to believe that.

Calls To Poison Centers Spike After The President’s Comments About Using Disinfectants To Treat Coronavirus (https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/04/25/calls-to-poison-centers-spike--after-the-presidents-comments-about-using-disinfectants-to-treat-coronavirus/?sh=2db289521157)

After Trump Hypes Chloroquine as Covid-19 Cure, a Man Dies Swallowing a Version of the Chemical Used in Fish Tanks (https://theintercept.com/2020/03/24/trump-hyped-chloroquine-cure-covid-19-man-arizona-took-died/)

Greetings!

GOOD! Darwinism in action right there! Culling the herd of the stupidest members! *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 21, 2020, 09:46:50 PM
If you believe the media, Trumps most consistent messaging was to drink bleach.

Luckily no one here was stupid enough to believe that.

Calls To Poison Centers Spike After The President’s Comments About Using Disinfectants To Treat Coronavirus (https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/04/25/calls-to-poison-centers-spike--after-the-presidents-comments-about-using-disinfectants-to-treat-coronavirus/?sh=2db289521157)

After Trump Hypes Chloroquine as Covid-19 Cure, a Man Dies Swallowing a Version of the Chemical Used in Fish Tanks (https://theintercept.com/2020/03/24/trump-hyped-chloroquine-cure-covid-19-man-arizona-took-died/)

Greetings!

GOOD! Darwinism in action right there! Culling the herd of the stupidest members! *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Think of it as Evolution in Action.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 21, 2020, 10:02:08 PM

Greetings!

GOOD! Darwinism in action right there! Culling the herd of the stupidest members! *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

And (if true, I seem to remember some debunking of this) almost certainly caused by the media. I don't think even the most moronic person heard the actual statement from Trump and thought "hey, the President is telling us to drink bleach!"
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 22, 2020, 12:19:13 AM
Sidney Powell Is now on the ropes!
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/not-impressed-ms-powell-retracts-nothing-lin-wood-responds-dominion-voting-machines-threats-sidney-powell/
Dominion Voting Systems sent a threatening letter to Attorney Sidney Powell demanding a retraction of her “defamatory” accusations. Dominion is very upset with the allegations that the Dominion machines were flipping ballots from Trump to Biden something that was proven in court last week! And there are at least five videos of voting machine companies flipping votes from Trump to Biden on live TV on election night.
This has never been explained.  Attorney Lin Wood responded to Dominion Voting Machines:
https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1340729543267667970?s=20
Lin Wood: “I am not impressed. Ms. Powell retracts nothing.”

New Info? Or just more salt from Trumpets?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/breaking-huge-simple-math-shows-biden-claims-13-million-votes-eligible-voters-voted-2020-election/
Bill Binney, of US Intel  tweeted out a message yesterday noting that more people voted in the 2020 election nation-wide than were eligible to vote:
https://twitter.com/Bill_Binney/status/1340106702167961602
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/elections/voter-turnout/
Binney attaches a link to the number of registered voters in the US.  "We made a copy as of today and added these voters up.  When we add up the number of registered voters we obtain 213.8 million registered voters in the US as of this morning": https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/static/source/rev-fd11ab2/wp-content/uploads/Registered-Voters-Per-State-865x1536.jpg

"If we have 213.8 million registered voters in the US and 66.2% of all voters voted in the 2020 election, that equals 141.5 voters who voted in the 2020 election" (Binney shows 140 million which is materially the same). "If President Trump won 74 million votes, then that leaves only 67.5 million votes remaining for Biden.  This means 13 million duplicate or made up ballots were created and counted for Biden! The results of the 2020 election at a very high level do not add up."  This is math liberals – very simple math that even liberals should be able to understand.  At a high level, the Biden camp clearly committed fraud.

The election results lasted FIVE SECONDS?!
https://electionwiz.com/2020/12/21/breaking-peter-navarro-says-379000-illegal-ballots-were-cast-in-michigan/
‘Within Five Seconds,’ Biden Got 141,000 Votes, While Trump Only Got 5,900. Navarro pointed to the timestamped data from the New York Times. He said on November 4, Trump had taken a substantial lead over Biden during a nine hour period. Navarro said that within “five seconds” at around 6:30 am ET, Biden’s vote total “skyrocketed by 141,258 votes.” Dr. Navarro said that vote surge is over 30 times the expected vote count. “Within that same time frame, do ya know how many Trump got? 5,968 [votes],” Navarro remarked. Dr. Navarro said there was another suspicious dump at around 3:50 am ET where Biden got over 54,000 votes while Trump only garnered about 4,700 votes.

Nope No EVIDENCE OF FRAUD here... don't look and it doesn't exist!
https://twitter.com/tracybeanz/status/1340875788044922881
“We’re getting closer and closer. And I hope you let everybody know we’re actually very close,” Trump said on WABC radio. “The fake news will not tell you that. They don’t want to talk about it. They’re trying to suppress it. We don’t have freedom of the press at all. It’s suppressed news. It’s a terrible thing that’s happened in our country. It’s been going on for, it started a long time ago, but it’s gotten to a point, it’s a terrible thing. It’s not freedom of the press, and we got to bring that back, because the press is so suppressed. It’s so dishonest. I don’t even call it fake news anymore. I call it corrupt news,” he added.

President Trump’s campaign today issued the following statement:
“Donald J. Trump for President, Inc., President Trump’s campaign committee, today filed a petition for writ of certiorari to the US. Supreme Court to reverse a trio of Pennsylvania Supreme Court cases which illegally changed Pennsylvania’s mail balloting law immediately before and after the 2020 presidential election in violation of Article II of the United States Constitution and Bush v. Gore.   This represents the Campaign’s first independent U.S. Supreme Court filing and seeks relief based on the same Constitutional arguments successfully raised in Bush v. Gore. “This petition follows a related Pennsylvania case where Justice Alito and two other justices observed ‘the constitutionality of the [Pennsylvania] Supreme Court’s decision [extending the statutory deadline for receipt of mail ballots from 8 pm on election day to 5 pm three days later] … has national importance, and there is a strong likelihood that the State Supreme Court decision violates the Federal Constitution.’ “The Campaign’s petition seeks to reverse three decisions which eviscerated the Pennsylvania Legislature’s protections against mail ballot fraud, including (a) prohibiting election officials checking whether signatures on mail ballots are genuine during canvassing on Election Day, (b) eliminating the right of campaigns to challenge mail ballots during canvassing for forged signatures and other irregularities, (c) holding that the rights of campaigns to observe the canvassing of mail ballots only meant that they only were allowed to be ‘in the room’ – in this case, the Philadelphia Convention Center – the size of several football fields, and (d) eliminating the statutory requirements that voters properly sign, address, and date mail ballots. “The petition seeks all appropriate remedies, including vacating the appointment of electors committed to Joseph Biden and allowing the Pennsylvania General Assembly to select their replacements. The Campaign also moved for expedited consideration, asking the Supreme Court to order responses by December 23 and a reply by December 24 to allow the U.S. Supreme Court to rule before Congress meets on January 6 to consider the votes of the electoral college.

Rep. Matt Gaetz announced that he will be challenging the electoral college votes during the Joint Session of Congress on Jan. 6 when votes are counted. Rep. Gaetz made the promise during his speech at Turning Point USA’s Student Action Summit. “So on January 6, I’m joining with the fighters in the Congress and we are going to object to electors from states that didn’t run clean elections,” Gaetz said.

But... THE LAW!
https://nationalfile.com/law-prohibits-pence-from-accepting-electoral-votes-from-fraudulently-certified-states-constitutional-lawyer/
https://twitter.com/Raiklin/status/1340664814788612099

My Take?
The Deep State and MSM are now trapped by the constitution, the law of the land. The election results are not adding up, if we take all registered voters there are 13 million more votes than registered voters. Trump has been sending this message to the people. Pence has been waiting in the wings for the right moment to strike. The clock is ticking down.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on December 22, 2020, 12:25:25 AM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/938/827/9c7)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 22, 2020, 12:37:36 AM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/938/827/9c7)
Other than SUPA-EDGIE-LORDD DAANK MEEMS, do you want to add anything to the conversation worthwhile other than:
Hurr, derr, elekshone iz ovar! Shutz mouts nao! Tireed of hearin bout orange peens! Hurr...

Then again, if I remember your informed opinion, you stated that you knew Biden is corrupt and is glad he won.

Maybe it's not this thread you hate, but Americans!
I'll be waiting on more of those DAANK MEEMS, so I can laugh at you incessantly when Trump wins!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 22, 2020, 12:40:07 AM
And (if true, I seem to remember some debunking of this) almost certainly caused by the media. I don't think even the most moronic person heard the actual statement from Trump and thought "hey, the President is telling us to drink bleach!"

I was just rebutting the claim that nobody would be that stupid. The media did not introduce internal use of disinfectants (or hydroxychloroquine) to the discourse. Even if nobody did this exceptionally stupid thing, reporting it served to underline that information from the President was not reliable, and ignoring Trump's advice on shutdowns and masks and social distancing was probably lifesaving for many people.

The media (and manufacturers of disinfectants) went to great lengths to inform the public that this was bad. The people who were stupid enough to do this anyway probably trusted Donald Trump far more than they trusted the media, and the media deciding which of the President's statements at his press conferences should be reported or not is likely worse (and wouldn't have worked anyway in the age of social media). If you want to blame the media, then you're obliged to say what they should have done instead.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on December 22, 2020, 12:50:53 AM
It’s a funny meme.  I’m fascinated by the reverence people show the man and would like to know why.  All that fascist talk was just SJW bullshit until now.  I do have a legit question for you.  Which is more idiotic?  In 2008 when people were telling me that we will enter a utopia because the president is black?  Or now when hard working rural Americans are telling me that a NYC billionaire son of a multimillionaire real estate mogul is their savior?  Seriously I would have voted for him if I even noticed his tax cuts.  All I saw was my medical premiums and out of pocket expenses sky rocket.  Trump failed the average American.  Just like pretty much every president before him.  The difference is he’s a narcissistic, comb over having, platform shoe wearing, spray tanned asshole. Of course he lost the election.  He’s humiliated himself countless times.  I don’t see how anyone could go out and vote for the man after all that.  Americans like their hypocrisy veiled.  Not in your face everyday ala Trump. Why him?  Too cult like for my taste.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 22, 2020, 12:51:50 AM
And (if true, I seem to remember some debunking of this) almost certainly caused by the media. I don't think even the most moronic person heard the actual statement from Trump and thought "hey, the President is telling us to drink bleach!"
I was just rebutting the claim that nobody would be that stupid. The media did not introduce internal use of disinfectants (or hydroxychloroquine) to the discourse. Even if nobody did this exceptionally stupid thing, reporting it served to underline that information from the President was not reliable, and ignoring Trump's advice on shutdowns and masks and social distancing was probably lifesaving for many people.

The media (and manufacturers of disinfectants) went to great lengths to inform the public that this was bad.
-snip-
I watched the speech he gave on this. He started by stating that the FAKE NEWS would accuse him of stating this. Then - within the editing room snip snip - he suddenly SAID IT. AMAZING!
I also find it amazing how much you wish to MURDER INNOCENT PEOPLE! WHY? Does it make you feel like a GOD? Why? Why do you want to murder children who never did anything to you??
How does it feel to be THAT kind of person? Hm?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 22, 2020, 01:00:53 AM
It’s a funny meme.  I’m fascinated by the reverence people show the man and would like to know why.  All that fascist talk was just SJW bullshit until now.  I do have a legit question for you.  Which is more idiotic?  In 2008 when people were telling me that we will enter a utopia because the president is black?  Or now when hard working rural Americans are telling me that a NYC billionaire son of a multimillionaire real estate mogul is their savior?  Seriously I would have voted for him if I even noticed his tax cuts.  All I saw was my medical premiums and out of pocket expenses sky rocket.  Trump failed the average American.  Just like pretty much every president before him.  The difference is he’s a narcissistic, comb over having, platform shoe wearing, spray tanned asshole. Of course he lost the election.  He’s humiliated himself countless times.  I don’t see how anyone could go out and vote for the man after all that.  Americans like their hypocrisy veiled.  Not in your face everyday ala Trump. Why him?  Too cult like for my taste.
When he was elected, I was told he was the closer. The man who would cause the U.S. to be broken into 10 regional Fema controlled zones. The man who would end the constitution by declaring Martial Law. Amazingly, I didn't believe them. Now I do. However, I also believe we have a greater chance of NOT being balkanized and controlled this way UNDER him, than not. Also after Obama recieved his 2nd term, I was told by a government agency I was going to be, and I quote, "JUST ANOTHER DEAD KIKE WE'RE GOING TO SHOOT IN THE HEAD." They also threatened my family and friends with death. I am alone now. But, these overt threats stopped after the election of 2016. And, FYI: I have not voted since 2014. Because the compromised police in my town will arrest me if I do. By order of our Mayor. Because I'm dangerous. Because I have a BIG FUCKING JEW MOUTH as they like to say. That's why I retreated. That's why my last chance is Trump. It's a long shot to be sure, but I WILL NOT LET INJUSTICE WIN! That's why I post here. It's the last place I can.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 22, 2020, 01:16:50 AM
Sidney Powell Is now on the ropes!
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/not-impressed-ms-powell-retracts-nothing-lin-wood-responds-dominion-voting-machines-threats-sidney-powell/
Dominion Voting Systems sent a threatening letter to Attorney Sidney Powell demanding a retraction of her “defamatory” accusations. Dominion is very upset with the allegations that the Dominion machines were flipping ballots from Trump to Biden something that was proven in court last week! And there are at least five videos of voting machine companies flipping votes from Trump to Biden on live TV on election night.
This has never been explained.  Attorney Lin Wood responded to Dominion Voting Machines:
https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1340729543267667970?s=20
Lin Wood: “I am not impressed. Ms. Powell retracts nothing.”

New Info? Or just more salt from Trumpets?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/breaking-huge-simple-math-shows-biden-claims-13-million-votes-eligible-voters-voted-2020-election/
Bill Binney, of US Intel  tweeted out a message yesterday noting that more people voted in the 2020 election nation-wide than were eligible to vote:
https://twitter.com/Bill_Binney/status/1340106702167961602
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/elections/voter-turnout/
Binney attaches a link to the number of registered voters in the US.  "We made a copy as of today and added these voters up.  When we add up the number of registered voters we obtain 213.8 million registered voters in the US as of this morning": https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/static/source/rev-fd11ab2/wp-content/uploads/Registered-Voters-Per-State-865x1536.jpg

"If we have 213.8 million registered voters in the US and 66.2% of all voters voted in the 2020 election, that equals 141.5 voters who voted in the 2020 election" (Binney shows 140 million which is materially the same). "If President Trump won 74 million votes, then that leaves only 67.5 million votes remaining for Biden.  This means 13 million duplicate or made up ballots were created and counted for Biden! The results of the 2020 election at a very high level do not add up."  This is math liberals – very simple math that even liberals should be able to understand.  At a high level, the Biden camp clearly committed fraud.

The election results lasted FIVE SECONDS?!
https://electionwiz.com/2020/12/21/breaking-peter-navarro-says-379000-illegal-ballots-were-cast-in-michigan/
‘Within Five Seconds,’ Biden Got 141,000 Votes, While Trump Only Got 5,900. Navarro pointed to the timestamped data from the New York Times. He said on November 4, Trump had taken a substantial lead over Biden during a nine hour period. Navarro said that within “five seconds” at around 6:30 am ET, Biden’s vote total “skyrocketed by 141,258 votes.” Dr. Navarro said that vote surge is over 30 times the expected vote count. “Within that same time frame, do ya know how many Trump got? 5,968 [votes],” Navarro remarked. Dr. Navarro said there was another suspicious dump at around 3:50 am ET where Biden got over 54,000 votes while Trump only garnered about 4,700 votes.

Nope No EVIDENCE OF FRAUD here... don't look and it doesn't exist!
https://twitter.com/tracybeanz/status/1340875788044922881
“We’re getting closer and closer. And I hope you let everybody know we’re actually very close,” Trump said on WABC radio. “The fake news will not tell you that. They don’t want to talk about it. They’re trying to suppress it. We don’t have freedom of the press at all. It’s suppressed news. It’s a terrible thing that’s happened in our country. It’s been going on for, it started a long time ago, but it’s gotten to a point, it’s a terrible thing. It’s not freedom of the press, and we got to bring that back, because the press is so suppressed. It’s so dishonest. I don’t even call it fake news anymore. I call it corrupt news,” he added.

President Trump’s campaign today issued the following statement:
“Donald J. Trump for President, Inc., President Trump’s campaign committee, today filed a petition for writ of certiorari to the US. Supreme Court to reverse a trio of Pennsylvania Supreme Court cases which illegally changed Pennsylvania’s mail balloting law immediately before and after the 2020 presidential election in violation of Article II of the United States Constitution and Bush v. Gore.   This represents the Campaign’s first independent U.S. Supreme Court filing and seeks relief based on the same Constitutional arguments successfully raised in Bush v. Gore. “This petition follows a related Pennsylvania case where Justice Alito and two other justices observed ‘the constitutionality of the [Pennsylvania] Supreme Court’s decision [extending the statutory deadline for receipt of mail ballots from 8 pm on election day to 5 pm three days later] … has national importance, and there is a strong likelihood that the State Supreme Court decision violates the Federal Constitution.’ “The Campaign’s petition seeks to reverse three decisions which eviscerated the Pennsylvania Legislature’s protections against mail ballot fraud, including (a) prohibiting election officials checking whether signatures on mail ballots are genuine during canvassing on Election Day, (b) eliminating the right of campaigns to challenge mail ballots during canvassing for forged signatures and other irregularities, (c) holding that the rights of campaigns to observe the canvassing of mail ballots only meant that they only were allowed to be ‘in the room’ – in this case, the Philadelphia Convention Center – the size of several football fields, and (d) eliminating the statutory requirements that voters properly sign, address, and date mail ballots. “The petition seeks all appropriate remedies, including vacating the appointment of electors committed to Joseph Biden and allowing the Pennsylvania General Assembly to select their replacements. The Campaign also moved for expedited consideration, asking the Supreme Court to order responses by December 23 and a reply by December 24 to allow the U.S. Supreme Court to rule before Congress meets on January 6 to consider the votes of the electoral college.

Rep. Matt Gaetz announced that he will be challenging the electoral college votes during the Joint Session of Congress on Jan. 6 when votes are counted. Rep. Gaetz made the promise during his speech at Turning Point USA’s Student Action Summit. “So on January 6, I’m joining with the fighters in the Congress and we are going to object to electors from states that didn’t run clean elections,” Gaetz said.

But... THE LAW!
https://nationalfile.com/law-prohibits-pence-from-accepting-electoral-votes-from-fraudulently-certified-states-constitutional-lawyer/
https://twitter.com/Raiklin/status/1340664814788612099

My Take?
The Deep State and MSM are now trapped by the constitution, the law of the land. The election results are not adding up, if we take all registered voters there are 13 million more votes than registered voters. Trump has been sending this message to the people. Pence has been waiting in the wings for the right moment to strike. The clock is ticking down.

Greetings!

Senator Ron Johnson mentioned that for the last four years, the Democrats have complained endlessly about how the 2016 Election was fraudulent--and yet now, in 2020, they blithely claim with smug certitude that no fraud has occurred, and American people that are suspicious and have questions and want investigations--well, they should just sit down and shut up. That is no way to run a country. (Paraphrase). The Senator is damned right. The claims of fraud are *everywhere*--videos, testimonies, witnesses with affidavits, mathematical and cyber analysis, and on and on. Even if somehow 90% of whatever is somehow bullshit--that remaining 10% is still entirely too much, makes this election illegitimate and illegal, and threatens the foundations of our Republic! Fuck the cock-sucking Marxist Democrats. Ram the truth down their throats until they fucking choke. Make them all choke and grovel and beg. Crush them without mercy. They are obstructing, lying, and embracing corruption and treason. I hope all of the corrupt, evil fucking politicians, the wormy officials, the sniveling tech executives, the cock-sucking Marxist media and "journalists"--I hope they all get life sentences in Gitmo. This is the most horrifying betrayal of our country, ever. Justice needs to prevail! Investigations--real investigations--need to be pursued with ruthless fire. All of the corruption must be dug the fuck out, and burned with a flamethrower.

I'm always blown away and encouraged by so many millions and millions of Americans that love President Trump, that are praying for President Trump, and support him. They want Trump to keep fighting the evil, deep state like a fucking LION!

Consolcwby, in one of the links--Lin Wood's Twitter, I recall--a woman, Tracy Beantz, I think, an investigative reporter, posts a little video of herself talking to the President, proclaiming her love for him, and her support for President Trump, and supporting him continuing to fight the evil snakes of the Deep State--the vipers! So inspiring! I've seen many videos now of so many women urging the President to fight and resist! To never give in to the fucking Democrats! Urging President Trump to defend the Republic, and not let the Marxists overthrow our country! Fucking awesome!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 22, 2020, 01:52:36 AM
Greetings!
-snip-
Consolcwby, in one of the links--Lin Wood's Twitter, I recall--a woman, Tracy Beantz, I think, an investigative reporter, posts a little video of herself talking to the President, proclaiming her love for him, and her support for President Trump, and supporting him continuing to fight the evil snakes of the Deep State--the vipers! So inspiring! I've seen many videos now of so many women urging the President to fight and resist! To never give in to the fucking Democrats! Urging President Trump to defend the Republic, and not let the Marxists overthrow our country! Fucking awesome!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Yep. The great awakening! It's happening all round us. However, I MUST warn: The original intended goal is for people around the world to reject and overthrow their own governments. If this is true, then what we are seeing is the populism which is to fail. Then a limited nuclear war. Then the overthrow. I don't believe that, myself, but I did hear such things for quite a few years. It makes me wonder which info is the disinfo and which is not. The only facts I understand is simple - there appears to be enough evidence of potential fraud that it has cast great doubt on the very institutions that people rely on to have their voices heard. Anyone who is reasonable can understand that IS a huge problem. Those that say it is not are liars and probably part of the ACTION NETWORKS which were created under Obama to discredit and round up anyone who DISSENTS with the mainstream view. The religion of secularism IS conformity to the social engineering standards, which can be changed by the whim of the zeitgeist. But thats only one of the many roots of this evil. I'm not surprised women have become supporters, since the otherside constantly demonizes their men and children (especially boys). I have been persecuted most of my life by bigots and provincials, but I have never seen it happen to the public at large - to the majority - at this level of intensity. Being neither a conformist nor an activist or radical, I cannot wrap my head around ANYONE who wishes to burn their own house down with their own family trapped inside it, let alone kill their neighbors. But, according to those in-the-know, the perpetrators of this madness are being fed this lie:

There are too many humans on this planet to be sustainable. Therefore, we must choose who is to survive. You are chosen because you help and protect those less fortunate than yourselves. But we must be ready to sacrifice our friends, families, even our own virtues through strength of conviction that WE and WE ALONE MUST SURVIVE. Therefore, the HERD MUST CULL ITSELF. And we shall help this - for sustainability, the environment, and our futures on this planet.

That is the lie I cannot understand why ANYONE with a braincell could believe.
And it's all going to be blamed on the Jews. Instead of the phonies who, currently, claim to be Jews and are not.
The final solution: The 'Controlled Simulation' of the 'End Of The World'.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 22, 2020, 02:02:15 AM
Or now when hard working rural Americans are telling me that a NYC billionaire son of a multimillionaire real estate mogul is their savior?  Seriously I would have voted for him if I even noticed his tax cuts.  All I saw was my medical premiums and out of pocket expenses sky rocket.  Trump failed the average American.

Dude, I do my own taxes.  Anyone making under 70 thousand saw the largest federal tax cut in any of our lifetimes.

And, interestingly enough, everybody's premiums and out-of-pockets skyrocketed the year after the "guaranteed profit for insurance companies" government subsidy in the ACA auto-expired...amazing how that worked isn't it...almost like textbook economics.  Still trying to figure out how that was Trump's fault since that law was passed in 2010.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on December 22, 2020, 02:14:43 AM
Dude, I do my own taxes.  Anyone making under 70 thousand saw the largest federal tax cut in any of our lifetimes.

And, interestingly enough, everybody's premiums and out-of-pockets skyrocketed the year after the "guaranteed profit for insurance companies" government subsidy in the ACA auto-expired...amazing how that worked isn't it...almost like textbook economics.  Still trying to figure out how that was Trump's fault since that law was passed in 2010.

As I understand it it was 3% for me which is great but I didn’t notice it because it wasn’t enough for me to without doing my own taxes.  I acknowledge that’s my fault but still in terms of dollars in my pocket it wasn’t really life changing.  The ACA is designed to fail.  I know that.  Trump promised to fix it. He said his health care plan was two weeks away several times.  Where was it?  I thought he was a semi successful president until Covid and I was laughing my ass off at the SJWs shitting their pants.  Ultimately he didn’t effect my life enough to join the chorus of “he’s the greatest president of all time”.  A lot of people thought it wasn’t worth another four years of the clown show.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 22, 2020, 02:31:37 AM
Greetings!
-snip-
Consolcwby, in one of the links--Lin Wood's Twitter, I recall--a woman, Tracy Beantz, I think, an investigative reporter, posts a little video of herself talking to the President, proclaiming her love for him, and her support for President Trump, and supporting him continuing to fight the evil snakes of the Deep State--the vipers! So inspiring! I've seen many videos now of so many women urging the President to fight and resist! To never give in to the fucking Democrats! Urging President Trump to defend the Republic, and not let the Marxists overthrow our country! Fucking awesome!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Yep. The great awakening! It's happening all round us. However, I MUST warn: The original intended goal is for people around the world to reject and overthrow their own governments. If this is true, then what we are seeing is the populism which is to fail. Then a limited nuclear war. Then the overthrow. I don't believe that, myself, but I did hear such things for quite a few years. It makes me wonder which info is the disinfo and which is not. The only facts I understand is simple - there appears to be enough evidence of potential fraud that it has cast great doubt on the very institutions that people rely on to have their voices heard. Anyone who is reasonable can understand that IS a huge problem. Those that say it is not are liars and probably part of the ACTION NETWORKS which were created under Obama to discredit and round up anyone who DISSENTS with the mainstream view. The religion of secularism IS conformity to the social engineering standards, which can be changed by the whim of the zeitgeist. But thats only one of the many roots of this evil. I'm not surprised women have become supporters, since the otherside constantly demonizes their men and children (especially boys). I have been persecuted most of my life by bigots and provincials, but I have never seen it happen to the public at large - to the majority - at this level of intensity. Being neither a conformist nor an activist or radical, I cannot wrap my head around ANYONE who wishes to burn their own house down with their own family trapped inside it, let alone kill their neighbors. But, according to those in-the-know, the perpetrators of this madness are being fed this lie:

There are too many humans on this planet to be sustainable. Therefore, we must choose who is to survive. You are chosen because you help and protect those less fortunate than yourselves. But we must be ready to sacrifice our friends, families, even our own virtues through strength of conviction that WE and WE ALONE MUST SURVIVE. Therefore, the HERD MUST CULL ITSELF. And we shall help this - for sustainability, the environment, and our futures on this planet.

That is the lie I cannot understand why ANYONE with a braincell could believe.
And it's all going to be blamed on the Jews. Instead of the phonies who, currently, claim to be Jews and are not.
The final solution: The 'Controlled Simulation' of the 'End Of The World'.

Greetings!

Yeah, my friend, that whole "There's too many people on the earth, we can't sustain billions and billions of people, so *we* have to be in charge, and that means the planet's population must be reduced." That is a fucking lie from Hell. In Genesis, in the Scriptures, GOD says for us to "Be fruitful and multiply". Beyond that, I have traveled, and seen much. Here in America, we have plenty of land to grow food, establish dams and reservoirs for water, treatment plants, and build housing. The idea that there isn't enough food, or room, to house and feed and care for people is just absurd. It's a sick, evil fantasy held by elitist, globalist tyrants that want *control* Plus, some of that BS cme from another favourite of the Left, Malthus, of Malthusian. In the 1970's, he claimed that the world couldn't sustain billions of people, and there would be mass famines and billions of people would starve to death by 2000, or earlier.

Then, there was the Food Revolution of the 80's, where we here in America revolutionized food production, and global food production has gone through the fucking roof ever since. We have plenty of food--more than enough food to fed every human being on the planet, and many, many more. Don't let anyone tell you any different. The main reason why some people in some regions starve and suffer is because of *access*--roads, trains, refrigeration, etc;--and government corruption by their fucking political leadership and elites.

As an aside, you remember Michael Bloomberg? The jackass that ran for President recently and who's campaign failed miserably after about a month? This moron spent--wait for it--500 MILLION DOLLARS on a bullshit campaign that went NOWHERE and accomplished NOTHING. You know how many people are living in the United States of America? Say, 350 million. Michael Bloomberg could have donated ONE MILLION DOLLARS to every man, woman, and child in America--and still saved money from his stupid political campaign. Every man, woman, and child in America could have been given likely more money in one stroke of a pen than they would ever have in a fucking lifetime. That I imagine would have brought a whole lot of "Hope and Change" for millions and millions of people. I'm not in favour of enforced "redistribution of wealth"--but charity, generosity, and love are always good. That is something that could have really made a huge impact on the entire country, for generations--but a single man's personal political ambitions and self-aggrandizement was far more important than any such altruistic thought.

I say that as yet another example of the presence of wealth and resources. The country--and certainly the planet--have plenty of wealth and resources to ensure everyone is taken care of, and has essential opportunities. The idea that we don't have the resources, so therefore we must bow down to a one-world government and entrust an elite few to rule over us with tyrannical power is a tyrant's feverish dream, and totally evil. The fucking globalists are evil and must be resisted. Globalists, Technocrats, Marxists, whatever you want to call them--they are all evil, wicked people, yearning for tyranny. They are all members of the same club.

The whole faceless, corrupt rise of globalism and Marxism is inspiring a global rise in populism, and as you say, an "awakening". People everywhere, around the world, are increasingly aware of what the tyrant class desires to do, and have embraced their corruption, and seek to enforce their will on everyday, ordinary people, and the people have had it. You see hundreds of thousands, millions of people, rising up--here in America, in Britain, France, Germany, in Thailand, and more. FREEDOM and INDEPENDENCE must prevail. The resistance will grow, and become stronger, day by day!

There's always nuts that want to blame "The Jews!" about everything. Just remember, these corrupt, evil elites that love tyranny--they want to exterminate the Jews, along with millions and millions of other people as well, especially Christians. These God-hating, baby-killing, greedy, evil elites must be resisted at every turn. THEY need to be crushed. Dr. Steve Turley talks about the growth and increasing popularity of Nationalism, Traditionalism, and Conservatism, around the world. You see it in Israel, in Eastern Europe, in Russia, in India, and also in America and Western Europe. The Marxist Globalists must be defeated!

Good stuff, my friend!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 22, 2020, 08:15:13 AM
Think of it as Evolution in Action.
Oath of Fealty, by Niven and Pournelle.

Honestly, myleftderp reminds me of the retard I had lecturing me last night on how labor has value. I tried to point out that labor itself has no intrinsic value and that the value generated was based on the results. I was then challenged to 'run a labor free business'.

Economics is hard, I guess.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 22, 2020, 08:28:16 AM
Think of it as Evolution in Action.
Oath of Fealty, by Niven and Pournelle.

Honestly, myleftderp reminds me of the retard I had lecturing me last night on how labor has value. I tried to point out that labor itself has no intrinsic value and that the value generated was based on the results. I was then challenged to 'run a labor free business'.

Economics is hard, I guess.
This comes back to "we don't pay you for effort, we pay you for outcomes." Oddly though, even if you can produce the same outcomes as another employee while working half the time, they want you to put in more effort (the rest of that time) without paying you more for exceeding the outcomes of the other...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 22, 2020, 10:30:16 AM
Newsmax has followed Fox News in retracting its claims about Smartmatic voting machines. I'm starting to sense a pattern here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 22, 2020, 11:31:44 AM

I was just rebutting the claim that nobody would be that stupid. The media did not introduce internal use of disinfectants (or hydroxychloroquine) to the discourse. Even if nobody did this exceptionally stupid thing, reporting it served to underline that information from the President was not reliable, and ignoring Trump's advice on shutdowns and masks and social distancing was probably lifesaving for many people.

The media (and manufacturers of disinfectants) went to great lengths to inform the public that this was bad. The people who were stupid enough to do this anyway probably trusted Donald Trump far more than they trusted the media, and the media deciding which of the President's statements at his press conferences should be reported or not is likely worse (and wouldn't have worked anyway in the age of social media). If you want to blame the media, then you're obliged to say what they should have done instead.
Telling the truth goes a long way, they could have just quoted him without trying to read everything in the worst possible way.

Your naive belief that the mass media never misrepresent anything is just super adorable.
(https://static.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/cnn-mostly-peaceful.jpg)

See what I did there?  ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 22, 2020, 02:44:42 PM
I was just rebutting the claim that nobody would be that stupid.

The amazing thing about the internet is that as soon as you say there is no one that stupid, you find stupid people falling over themselves to try and prove you wrong.

Even for scams like drinking bleach.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 22, 2020, 02:45:49 PM
Newsmax has followed Fox News in retracting its claims about Smartmatic voting machines. I'm starting to sense a pattern here.

Yeah, I told you.  Voting machines were a big nothing burger.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 22, 2020, 06:14:47 PM
A high-level employee of Dominion just sued the Trump campaign. Hilarity will ensue.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 22, 2020, 06:50:01 PM
Oh no, Trump being sued.

That is something that has never happened to him before.   8)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 22, 2020, 08:27:37 PM
Trump just issued a bunch of pardons. Which is fine, and what Presidents do when they know they are about to leave office.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 22, 2020, 09:36:25 PM
Oh look, U.S. Trade Deficit the worst since 2008 recession (https://www.axios.com/us-trade-deficits-continue-to-grow-ba953cd0-457f-48ef-84f3-f4f996353da0.html). And it was diving already before Covid.

For those playing at home, one of Trumps major issues when he ran was our bad trade deficit. Which he promised to drastically improve.

Who could have predicted Trump's trade policies would backfire and be even worse than before? Oh right, me. And everyone who has experience in trade and could see his policies would not increase our manufacturing but would instead decrease U.S. sales of goods overseas.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Catulle on December 22, 2020, 09:52:27 PM
Trump just issued a bunch of pardons. Which is fine, and what Presidents do when they know they are about to leave office.

Those poor, persecuted murder-y mercenaries. How dare anyone hold them to account, however briefly?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 22, 2020, 11:06:07 PM
I was just rebutting the claim that nobody would be that stupid. The media did not introduce internal use of disinfectants (or hydroxychloroquine) to the discourse. Even if nobody did this exceptionally stupid thing, reporting it served to underline that information from the President was not reliable, and ignoring Trump's advice on shutdowns and masks and social distancing was probably lifesaving for many people.

The media (and manufacturers of disinfectants) went to great lengths to inform the public that this was bad.
I watched the speech he gave on this. He started by stating that the FAKE NEWS would accuse him of stating this. Then - within the editing room snip snip - he suddenly SAID IT. AMAZING!

You can read the transcript (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-31/) or watch the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUtGMe_wp_A) (talking starts at a little after 2:52:00; Bill Bryan mentions the rate at which bleach and isopropyl alcohol kills the virus, and Trump follows on that with the comments in question around 3:19:00. He only mentions "fake news" later, in reference to other questions, and declared his stupider remarks sarcastic the next day, his typical dodge when he discovers he's said something stupid or criminal.

Point out from either what you claimed about his reference to the fake news and what context you think was omitted.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/24/politics/fact-check-trump-disinfectant-sarcastic/index.html

Quote
I also find it amazing how much you wish to MURDER INNOCENT PEOPLE! WHY? Does it make you feel like a GOD? Why? Why do you want to murder children who never did anything to you??
How does it feel to be THAT kind of person? Hm?

What in the name of everything holy are you talking about? Provide a link to whatever I've posted that prompted you to say this.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 22, 2020, 11:06:33 PM
I was tired today, gotta get my ass in gear tomorrow!
The Don just announced his admin. picks!
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/president-donald-j-trump-announces-intent-appoint-individuals-key-administration-posts-122220/
Today, President Donald J. Trump announced his intent to appoint the following individuals to key positions in his Administration:
Pam Bondi, of Florida, to be a Member of the Board of Trustees of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts.
Edward McMullen, Jr., of South Carolina, to be a Member of the Board of Trustees of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts.
Paolo Zampolli, of New York, to be a Member of the Board of Trustees of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts.
Hope Charlotte Hicks, of Connecticut, to be a Member of the J. William Fulbright Foreign Scholarship Board.
Derek S. Lyons, of Texas, to be a Member of the J. William Fulbright Foreign Scholarship Board.
Amy Hanson Swonger, of North Carolina, to be a Member of the J. William Fulbright Foreign Scholarship Board

Arizona's electors want an audit...
https://twitter.com/AZGOP/status/1341177821520162816
So lets think about this, there are subpoenas issued to Maricopa to look at the dominion machines but they are not allowing this to happen, what are they hiding??

http://conservativeactionproject.com/conservatives-call-on-state-legislators-to-appoint-new-electors-in-accordance-with-the-constitution/
The evidence overwhelmingly shows officials in key battleground states—as the result of a coordinated pressure campaign by Democrats and allied groups—violated the Constitution, state and federal law in changing mail-in voting rules that resulted in unlawful and invalid certifications of Biden victories. There is no doubt President Donald J. Trump is the lawful winner of the presidential election. Joe Biden is not president-elect. Accordingly, state legislatures in the battleground states of Pennsylvania, Arizona, Georgia, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Michigan should exercise their plenary power under the Constitution and appoint clean slates of electors to the Electoral College to support President Trump. Similarly, both the House and Senate should accept only these clean Electoral College slates and object to and reject any competing slates in favor of Vice President Biden from these states. Conservative leaders and groups should begin mobilizing immediately to contact their state legislators, as well as their representatives in the House and Senate, to demand that clean slates of electors be appointed in the manner laid out in the U.S. Constitution.

There was a meeting with Flynn, Sidney Powell, Patrick Byrne, and others in the white house:
https://twitter.com/Rothbard1776/status/1341165020776984577
https://twitter.com/GenFlynn/status/1341364461102379008
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1341326729143406593
My take:
The swamp is deep and wide, and ONLY in 2020 can those with eyes on the details CAN SEE the SEDITION AND TREASON by the so-called "Friends" of The President!  Those who want the election to JUST END AND GET ON WITH THINGS do not have our country's best interest at heart. Instead, threats - lies - murders - of normal everyday people who don't agree with the left MUST HAVE THIS ELECTION DONE HONESTLY TO SURVIVE AND THRIVE!

It amazes me how much some of you WANT to KILL, RAPE,  MURDER, DESTROY, AND BLAME EVERYONE but YOURSELF!
The demonization of TRUE AMERICANS MUST STOP HERE, REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU VOTED!
Too bad that some members of this thread want these people ROUNDED UP AND MURDERED!
MERRY FUCKING CHRISTMAS INDEED!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 22, 2020, 11:07:30 PM
Newsmax has followed Fox News in retracting its claims about Smartmatic voting machines. I'm starting to sense a pattern here.

Sebastian Gorka on Newsmax cut off the MyPillow guy when he started in on Dominion voting machines. Definite fear of lawsuits.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 22, 2020, 11:15:27 PM
Telling the truth goes a long way, they could have just quoted him without trying to read everything in the worst possible way.

I realize Republicans like it best when reporters are simply stenographers. But to a large extent they were just reporting on the horrified reactions of doctors and companies that made disinfectants.

Quote
Your naive belief that the mass media never misrepresent anything is just super adorable.

That would be bad if I had ever said anything of the sort; you have mistaken me for the strawman in your head. But pointing out your ignorance of PhDs really, really embarrassed you, huh?

Quote
See what I did there?  ;)

Yes, embarrassed yourself some more. LOL.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 22, 2020, 11:17:16 PM
Voting machines were a big nothing burger.

Too late! The other side is already spinning up its own theories (http://"https://www.dcreport.org/2020/12/19/mitch-mcconnells-re-election-the-numbers-dont-add-up/").
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on December 22, 2020, 11:19:55 PM
Newsmax has followed Fox News in retracting its claims about Smartmatic voting machines. I'm starting to sense a pattern here.

Sebastian Gorka on Newsmax cut off the MyPillow guy when he started in on Dominion voting machines. Definite fear of lawsuits.

That’s how much of a sitcom this whole thing is.  Who gives a fuck what the mypillow guy thinks?   Why is he being interviewed?   Seriously can’t Trump land come up with a better mouthpiece?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 22, 2020, 11:37:17 PM
Oh look, U.S. Trade Deficit the worst since 2008 recession (https://www.axios.com/us-trade-deficits-continue-to-grow-ba953cd0-457f-48ef-84f3-f4f996353da0.html). And it was diving already before Covid.

For those playing at home, one of Trumps major issues when he ran was our bad trade deficit. Which he promised to drastically improve.

Who could have predicted Trump's trade policies would backfire and be even worse than before? Oh right, me. And everyone who has experience in trade and could see his policies would not increase our manufacturing but would instead decrease U.S. sales of goods overseas.

If you have a company you can’t be this dumb, and/or made it past Econ 101
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 22, 2020, 11:44:10 PM
WaPo opinion piece on how Republicans are rats.

Washington. Post.

I feel quite fine calling Democrats vermin who need to be exterminated now. Race you all to the bottom!

Ratman_tf doesn't like being associated with rats? Huh.

The editorial cartoon is depicting elected officials who joined the Texas lawsuit to overturn other states' elections as rats, in the sense of traitors; it is subtitled "All of the state attorneys general and U.S. Congress members who collaborated with President Trump in his attempt to subvert the Constitution and stay in office." as can be seen in the posted image. Definitely unfair to rats. It is good to learn what the outrage of the day is, though, without having to attend the Two-Minutes Hate.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 22, 2020, 11:56:41 PM
Newsmax has followed Fox News in retracting its claims about Smartmatic voting machines. I'm starting to sense a pattern here.

Sebastian Gorka on Newsmax cut off the MyPillow guy when he started in on Dominion voting machines. Definite fear of lawsuits.

That’s how much of a sitcom this whole thing is.  Who gives a fuck what the mypillow guy thinks?   Why is he being interviewed?   Seriously can’t Trump land come up with a better mouthpiece?

If they had just put a laugh track on the coronavirus briefings, they wouldn't have had so much trouble over the bleach thing.

But the Trump campaign has had a lot of difficulties with its branding. Depicting Trump as Thanos from the Avengers movies; the campaign as the Death Star; boat parades as the Spanish Armada; and lawsuits as "Release the Kraken!" You would think that someone would have noticed that all of these are bad news and came to a bad end.... Was it stupidity or sabotage?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 22, 2020, 11:59:54 PM
Telling the truth goes a long way, they could have just quoted him without trying to read everything in the worst possible way.

I realize Republicans like it best when reporters are simply stenographers. But to a large extent they were just reporting on the horrified reactions of doctors and companies that made disinfectants.

Quote
Your naive belief that the mass media never misrepresent anything is just super adorable.

That would be bad if I had ever said anything of the sort; you have mistaken me for the strawman in your head. But pointing out your ignorance of PhDs really, really embarrassed you, huh?

Quote
See what I did there?  ;)

Yes, embarrassed yourself some more. LOL.

I even gave you a hint ;D

Yeah, of course you wouldn’t get it. I paraphrased your posts, throwing your bullshit straw man arguments back at you, nitwit :D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Catulle on December 23, 2020, 12:05:23 AM
Newsmax has followed Fox News in retracting its claims about Smartmatic voting machines. I'm starting to sense a pattern here.

Sebastian Gorka on Newsmax cut off the MyPillow guy when he started in on Dominion voting machines. Definite fear of lawsuits.

That’s how much of a sitcom this whole thing is.  Who gives a fuck what the mypillow guy thinks?   Why is he being interviewed?   Seriously can’t Trump land come up with a better mouthpiece?

If they had just put a laugh track on the coronavirus briefings, they wouldn't have had so much trouble over the bleach thing.

But the Trump campaign has had a lot of difficulties with its branding. Depicting Trump as Thanos from the Avengers movies; the campaign as the Death Star; boat parades as the Spanish Armada; and lawsuits as "Release the Kraken!" You would think that someone would have noticed that all of these are bad news and came to a bad end.... Was it stupidity or sabotage?

Careful, man. They're going to overturn democracy Any Day Now,  and then you'll be sorry. Just, you know, not in a Nazi way. Just an anti-communist way. *eyes the centre-right Democrats*
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 23, 2020, 01:17:05 AM
Voting machines were a big nothing burger.

Too late! The other side is already spinning up its own theories (http://"https://www.dcreport.org/2020/12/19/mitch-mcconnells-re-election-the-numbers-dont-add-up/").

Your link is not working, so what did Biden say about the spinning theories?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 23, 2020, 01:19:45 AM
Careful, man. They're going to overturn democracy Any Day Now,  and then you'll be sorry. Just, you know, not in a Nazi way. Just an anti-communist way. *eyes the centre-right Democrats*

How can they be Nazis when their name is literally Anti-Nazi?

QED
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 23, 2020, 01:45:46 AM
Voting machines were a big nothing burger.

Too late! The other side is already spinning up its own theories (http://"https://www.dcreport.org/2020/12/19/mitch-mcconnells-re-election-the-numbers-dont-add-up/").

Your link is not working, so what did Biden say about the spinning theories?

The link was misformatted. Here's the corrected one, concerning suspicion that Mitch McConnell's re-election involved ballot fraud.

https://www.dcreport.org/2020/12/19/mitch-mcconnells-re-election-the-numbers-dont-add-up/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on December 23, 2020, 05:34:51 AM
Today is Pence's big day. We'll see where he stands.

It's entertaining how you clowns think a stolen election will be allowed to stand.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 23, 2020, 11:48:01 AM
As an aside, you remember Michael Bloomberg? The jackass that ran for President recently and who's campaign failed miserably after about a month? This moron spent--wait for it--500 MILLION DOLLARS on a bullshit campaign that went NOWHERE and accomplished NOTHING. You know how many people are living in the United States of America? Say, 350 million. Michael Bloomberg could have donated ONE MILLION DOLLARS to every man, woman, and child in America--and still saved money from his stupid political campaign. Every man, woman, and child in America could have been given likely more money in one stroke of a pen than they would ever have in a fucking lifetime.

SHARK, you might want to look at the math on this claim again. You're pretty hugely off on this. $500 million split among 350 million people would be one dollar and 42 cents per person, not a million per person. I say this because in a number of other subjects, you do have an attention to detail -- like with respect to history. I wouldn't expect most of your opinions to change, but if your claim here is off by a million times, I hope you might look back and allow that some other claims might have some flaws.


I say that as yet another example of the presence of wealth and resources. The country--and certainly the planet--have plenty of wealth and resources to ensure everyone is taken care of, and has essential opportunities. The idea that we don't have the resources, so therefore we must bow down to a one-world government and entrust an elite few to rule over us with tyrannical power is a tyrant's feverish dream, and totally evil. The fucking globalists are evil and must be resisted. Globalists, Technocrats, Marxists, whatever you want to call them--they are all evil, wicked people, yearning for tyranny. They are all members of the same club.

A lot of the liberal left share a distaste for elite billionaires. I think a significant part of Bloomberg's failure wasn't his position, but rather that his billionaire status didn't go over well with the progressive wing among Democrats. I realize that you feel they are misguided and that what they are voting for is tyranny, but it seems to me that is an overlap in position where populist conservatives and leftist progressives have some common ground.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 23, 2020, 12:14:26 PM
As an aside, you remember Michael Bloomberg? The jackass that ran for President recently and who's campaign failed miserably after about a month? This moron spent--wait for it--500 MILLION DOLLARS on a bullshit campaign that went NOWHERE and accomplished NOTHING. You know how many people are living in the United States of America? Say, 350 million. Michael Bloomberg could have donated ONE MILLION DOLLARS to every man, woman, and child in America--and still saved money from his stupid political campaign. Every man, woman, and child in America could have been given likely more money in one stroke of a pen than they would ever have in a fucking lifetime.

SHARK, you might want to look at the math on this claim again. You're pretty hugely off on this. $500 million split among 350 million people would be one dollar and 42 cents per person, not a million per person. I say this because in a number of other subjects, you do have an attention to detail -- like with respect to history. I wouldn't expect most of your opinions to change, but if your claim here is off by a million times, I hope you might look back and allow that some other claims might have some flaws.
I assume that was a parody of this particular piece of stupidity:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/03/06/no-michael-bloomberg-couldnt-give-every-american-1-million/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 23, 2020, 02:59:15 PM
Dominion has sent notices to Giuliani and Cipollone telling them to preserve documents ahead of "imminent legal action".
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 23, 2020, 03:36:27 PM
Dominion has sent notices to Giuliani and Cipollone telling them to preserve documents ahead of "imminent legal action".

No there is a fear reaction if I ever saw one.....
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 23, 2020, 05:31:16 PM
Dominion has sent notices to Giuliani and Cipollone telling them to preserve documents ahead of "imminent legal action".

No there is a fear reaction if I ever saw one.....

The fear reaction is those who have been defaming Dominion for weeks with no evidence being called to pay deep fines for said behavior. Truth is a defense to defamation and they will not be able to use that defense.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 23, 2020, 05:57:15 PM
Dominion has sent notices to Giuliani and Cipollone telling them to preserve documents ahead of "imminent legal action".

No there is a fear reaction if I ever saw one.....

The fear reaction is those who have been defaming Dominion for weeks with no evidence being called to pay deep fines for said behavior. Truth is a defense to defamation and they will not be able to use that defense.
Will it be another kraken?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 23, 2020, 06:30:40 PM
As an aside, you remember Michael Bloomberg? The jackass that ran for President recently and who's campaign failed miserably after about a month? This moron spent--wait for it--500 MILLION DOLLARS on a bullshit campaign that went NOWHERE and accomplished NOTHING. You know how many people are living in the United States of America? Say, 350 million. Michael Bloomberg could have donated ONE MILLION DOLLARS to every man, woman, and child in America--and still saved money from his stupid political campaign. Every man, woman, and child in America could have been given likely more money in one stroke of a pen than they would ever have in a fucking lifetime.

SHARK, you might want to look at the math on this claim again. You're pretty hugely off on this. $500 million split among 350 million people would be one dollar and 42 cents per person, not a million per person. I say this because in a number of other subjects, you do have an attention to detail -- like with respect to history. I wouldn't expect most of your opinions to change, but if your claim here is off by a million times, I hope you might look back and allow that some other claims might have some flaws.


I say that as yet another example of the presence of wealth and resources. The country--and certainly the planet--have plenty of wealth and resources to ensure everyone is taken care of, and has essential opportunities. The idea that we don't have the resources, so therefore we must bow down to a one-world government and entrust an elite few to rule over us with tyrannical power is a tyrant's feverish dream, and totally evil. The fucking globalists are evil and must be resisted. Globalists, Technocrats, Marxists, whatever you want to call them--they are all evil, wicked people, yearning for tyranny. They are all members of the same club.

A lot of the liberal left share a distaste for elite billionaires. I think a significant part of Bloomberg's failure wasn't his position, but rather that his billionaire status didn't go over well with the progressive wing among Democrats. I realize that you feel they are misguided and that what they are voting for is tyranny, but it seems to me that is an overlap in position where populist conservatives and leftist progressives have some common ground.

Greetings!

Yeah, Jhkim, I got my analogy flipped around in my head wrong. Thank you. But you get the main point I was making. Bloomberg is an example of an enormous amount of wealth frivolously wasted. Clearly, the wealth and resources to ensure the prosperity and survival of society--here in America--but secondarily by extension to the world, is quite abundant.

I recently heard that America, for example, supplies 70% of the world with food, or key elements of their food. If America stopped shipping food out to people around the world, a whole lot of people would be hurting very fast. We have abundant resources, and the idea that we cannot support the present population of the earth is a flat out lie. Same BS with birth control and abortion. All of it is evil and nonsense.

Our problems are founded within political leadership, officials, inter-tribal and inter-group hatred, poor civic planning, corruption, and lack of modern transportation, storage, and technical networks--refrigeration, electricity, roadways, trains, and so on.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on December 23, 2020, 06:57:09 PM
Quote
Will it be another kraken?

Sydney Powell says she’s now been banned from the White House. This just keeps getting better. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 23, 2020, 07:06:48 PM
But you get the main point I was making. Bloomberg is an example of an enormous amount of wealth frivolously wasted. Clearly, the wealth and resources to ensure the prosperity and survival of society--here in America--but secondarily by extension to the world, is quite abundant.

I recently heard that America, for example, supplies 70% of the world with food, or key elements of their food. If America stopped shipping food out to people around the world, a whole lot of people would be hurting very fast. We have abundant resources, and the idea that we cannot support the present population of the earth is a flat out lie. Same BS with birth control and abortion. All of it is evil and nonsense.

Our problems are founded within political leadership, officials, inter-tribal and inter-group hatred, poor civic planning, corruption, and lack of modern transportation, storage, and technical networks--refrigeration, electricity, roadways, trains, and so on.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Bloomberg's money isn't wasted. Billionaires don't have huge stacks of money in vaults. They own companies, which have been judged to provide immense value by their customers in a free market. Without Bloomberg, someone may have created an equivalent of the Bloomberg machine. Or they might not have, or it might have been delayed, or achieved less penetration. That $60 billion or so his company is worth didn't exist before he created it. Now, yes, other people might have used the same staff, the same office space, the same chips, and all the other resources he mobilized to produce something valuable in his absence. So we can't say for sure that, without him, the world would be $60 billion poorer. But since the whole point of a market is to make the best use of scarce resources, we know any alternative use of those resources would have been worth less. And since the $60 billion is just what the company is worth, and doesn't measure the entire value he added, it can also be more. So while it's hard to pin a true value to his unique contributions, we know he added value, and did it more efficiently than anyone else who was competing for those same resources. He's not spending that $60 billion, he's using it, to add increase the total wealth of the world.

You're correct, there's no shortage of food in the world. The breadbaskets of the world, including the American heartlands, are more than sufficient to feed everyone. But people still starve. It's not a lack of will, or a lack of generosity. Charities, and foreign aid from wealthy countries, are both able and willing to mobilize more than enough feed to feed all the starving people in the world. The problem is food becomes another tool that dictators and other statists use to solidify their power. They accept the aid, then give it out to secure favors, and would rather let it rot than give it to their enemies. Donations of food, even if some does filter through to the truly needy, primarily help dictators to maintain their hold on power. It's a hard choice: Do we turn our backs and let people starve, in the hopes that the governments that caused that misery will collapse, and may be be replaced by something better? Or do we give out food, knowing perfectly well most of it won't go where it needs to go, and that it will enable the people who caused those conditions in the first place to hold onto power even longer?

Part of the reason we know we can feed the world is because populations are stabilizing. As countries move from poor to relatively well off, which has already happened to most of the world over the last 40 years, the birth rate plummets from far above replacement level, to roughly replacement level (populations stop growing). Projections are we'll reach a worldwide population of roughly 10 billion, and then stop. We can feed that world, but it's not because we have unlimited food. It's because people stop having so many kids. Which wouldn't be possible, without birth control.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jeff37923 on December 23, 2020, 08:21:40 PM
Dominion has sent notices to Giuliani and Cipollone telling them to preserve documents ahead of "imminent legal action".

Now there is a fear reaction if I ever saw one.....

The fear reaction is those who have been defaming Dominion for weeks with no evidence being called to pay deep fines for said behavior. Truth is a defense to defamation and they will not be able to use that defense.

I take it back.
Your fear reaction is far more shrill.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on December 23, 2020, 09:38:39 PM
Bloomberg's money isn't wasted. Billionaires don't have huge stacks of money in vaults....
This is total bullshit right here...

Cash on Hand - Bill Gates
====================
He probably has something in the range of $5–11 billion in cash and equivalents, if I had to wager a guess. The average ultra high net worth investor had around 10% of their assets in cash equivalents in 2017 and Bill Gates is worth around $110 billion, give or take.

Apple Corporation
=====================
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/29/apple-q4-cash-hoard-heres-how-much-apple-has-on-hand.html
$191 Billion, which is thousand million dollars.

Warren Buffet
=====================
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/four-analysts-on-berkshire-hathaways-128-billion-cash-pile-2019-11-1028659828?op=1
128 Billion, and he's not spending it (From 2019)

From Another Source
=====================

1. Bill Gates
Cash On Hand: $46.8 Billion
Cash As A Percentage of Portfolio: 53.6%
The world’s wealthiest billionaire is the king of cash among the top 100 billionaires in the world. His cash alone would make him the world’s seventh richest man.

2. Ernesto Bertarelli
Cash On Hand: $13.5 Billion
Cash As A Percentage of Portfolio: 90%
A Switzerland citizen who attributes the majority of his wealth to a drug manufacturer he and his sister inherited, and then sold to Merck.

3. Hans Rausing
Cash On Hand: $12 Billion
Cash As A Percentage of Portfolio: 96%
The cash king in terms of portfolio percentage inherited his 50% stake of the world’s largest maker of juice and milk cartons over three decades ago. Sold his stake in 2013 and now raises deer in Britain.

4. Mikhail Prokhorov
Cash On Hand: $10.1 Billion
Cash As A Percentage of Portfolio: 80.8%
Prokhorov holds a sizeable stake in the world’s largest aluminum producer and an eighty percent stake in the America’s Brooklyn Nets basketball franchise.

5. Michael Dell
Cash On Hand: $9.5 Billion
Cash As A Percentage of Portfolio: 55.9%
The man whose company started in his college dorm room has seen his company recently go from one of America’s largest public company back to being privately held.

6. Roman Abramovich
Cash On Hand: $8.7 Billion
Cash As A Percentage of Portfolio: 63%
Russia’s third wealthiest man owns a stake in the world’s largest nickel producer.

7. Mikhail Fridman
Cash On Hand: $8.6 Billion
Cash As A Percentage of Portfolio: 63.2%
Fridman has control of Russia’s largest closely held bank and second biggest food retailer.

8. Alisher Usmanov
Cash On Hand: $7.3 Billion
Cash As A Percentage of Portfolio: 48.3%
Arguably Russia’s technology finance guru. Has ownership stakes in Twitter, AirBnB, and Spotify. He invested in Facebook before ever meeting Mark Zuckerberg.

9. Viktor Vekselberg
Cash On Hand: $7.2 Billion
Cash As A Percentage of Portfolio: 50%
He controls Russia’s largest power supply company.

10. Phil Knight
Cash On Hand: $6.2 Billion
Cash As A Percentage of Portfolio: 27%
Mr. Just Do It, also known as the owner of Nike and sometimes labeled eccentric billionaire. Still pays Michael Jordan $60 million annually in royalties for Nike’s ownership of the Jordan brand that brings in revenues north of $500 million for the company.

They have so much cash, you could spend the rest of your life just counting the stacks of money in their vaults and secret playboy mansions, and you wouldn't even come close to tallying what they have.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 23, 2020, 09:41:41 PM
See what I did there?  ;)

Yes, embarrassed yourself some more. LOL.

I even gave you a hint ;D

Yeah, of course you wouldn’t get it. I paraphrased your posts, throwing your bullshit straw man arguments back at you, nitwit :D

You were super adorable when you asserted that it was wrong to think a PhD could make a mistake, because even the most naive and sheltered freshmen don't believe that after minimal contact with actual PhDs. (Or you think that hinting that you had a PhD would somehow overawe people, which is even stupider.) Your attempt to manufacture a comeback failed utterly, because you could only base it on a misrepresentation of what I said. I'm beginning to doubt that any reputable institution granted you a PhD.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 23, 2020, 09:55:03 PM
Voting machines were a big nothing burger.

Too late! The other side is already spinning up its own theories (http://"https://www.dcreport.org/2020/12/19/mitch-mcconnells-re-election-the-numbers-dont-add-up/").

Your link is not working, so what did Biden say about the spinning theories?

Sorry, the URL was between " " when I pasted it and so it got mangled.

Corrected link (https://www.dcreport.org/2020/12/19/mitch-mcconnells-re-election-the-numbers-dont-add-up/) was already given by jhkim; thank you!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on December 23, 2020, 09:59:43 PM
See what I did there?  ;)

Yes, embarrassed yourself some more. LOL.

I even gave you a hint ;D

Yeah, of course you wouldn’t get it. I paraphrased your posts, throwing your bullshit straw man arguments back at you, nitwit :D

You were super adorable when you asserted that it was wrong to think a PhD could make a mistake, because even the most naive and sheltered freshmen don't believe that after minimal contact with actual PhDs. (Or you think that hinting that you had a PhD would somehow overawe people, which is even stupider.) Your attempt to manufacture a comeback failed utterly, because you could only base it on a misrepresentation of what I said. I'm beginning to doubt that any reputable institution granted you a PhD.
“Base it on a misrepresentation” you don’t say.
OK I guess I have to explain it then 😆
It was obviously an intentional straw man. I was parodying you and your insincere arguments.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 23, 2020, 10:10:13 PM
It's entertaining how you clowns think a stolen election will be allowed to stand.

Still waiting to see any evidence of a stolen election. Unlikely that the toadies still in the Cabinet will invoke the 25th amendment; Trump declaring martial law will just fizzle on its own.

With Donald Trump melting down over the election he lost, there has been a consequence I did not expect. The bunker scene from Downfall keeps popping up, only with subtitles actually translating the German dialog. I guess it makes a better point than subtitling it with Trumpian dialog would have.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Jaeger on December 23, 2020, 10:21:18 PM
Quote
Will it be another kraken?

Sydney Powell says she%u2019s now been banned from the White House. This just keeps getting better. 

Get your fake news straight: %u201C...blocked by the White House counsel and others from seeing or speaking to the president%u201D on one day, by rino defeatist underlings who like to play those kind of games.

Not banned. Nice try word-switch misrepresentation man. One look at her twitter feed and she is still exchanging comments and reply's with the GE...

See, if you are trying to cause the other side to despair; it's much better to drop stuff that's harder to refute:

Creepy Joe Biden Call:
https://mobile.twitter.com/RowdyRep/status/1341499773455622145

Quote from: According to Fake President-Elect:link=topic=42372.msg1157686#msg1157686 date=1608767829
This country is doomed. It's doomed, not just because of African-Americans, but because by 2040, this country is going to be minority white-European. You hear me? And you guys are going to have to start working more with Hispanics. Who make up a larger portion of population than y'all do!


Some are trying to say it's fake, but it's just a natural extension of his previous public statements:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ep8l3G9XEAA2WOf?format=jpg&name=900x900)


And just so that this never gets memory holed:



How is Creepy Joe Biden's public statement not evidence?

Why should we not take this man at his word?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 23, 2020, 10:28:51 PM
Your attempt to manufacture a comeback failed utterly, because you could only base it on a misrepresentation of what I said. I'm beginning to doubt that any reputable institution granted you a PhD.
“Base it on a misrepresentation” you don’t say.
OK I guess I have to explain it then 😆
It was obviously an intentional straw man. I was parodying you and your insincere arguments.

You misrepresented what I said and made up an intentional straw man; dishonest. You thought it would embarrass someone other than yourself; stupid.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on December 23, 2020, 11:05:47 PM
@Jaeger.  LOL.  Are you trying to get me upset by attacking Joe Biden?  I’m not on any politician’s side.  I’m just laughing at this clown show.  It’s reaching epic proportions.  I seriously joined this forum because I honestly thought the right was smarter than the SJWs.  At this point it’s clear you guys are just the bizarro-SJWs.  The term echo chamber comes to mind.  Where have I heard that before?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 23, 2020, 11:18:20 PM
Still waiting to see any evidence of a stolen election.

Its not proving a stolen election.  It is about proving that the election was legitimate.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 23, 2020, 11:19:37 PM
No Evidence Of FRAUD, say those who want to create a new AUSCHWITZ IN AMERICA!
A list of evidence from a brave soul:
https://twitter.com/RepTedBudd/status/1341443808194605069

Will Pence Save America?
https://twitter.com/TheRightMelissa/status/1341579724687073280
As President of the Senate, @Mike_Pence has sole power to tell the states he will not accept their electors b/c they vioated the Constittion. At this point the legislatures will either have to select new electors or stand down This will put Dems on defense from now till Jan 6th. He cannot LEGALLY accept fraudelent electors Dec 23rd is his highest call of duty is to defend the Constitution from the States failure to follow it. These States are in breach of contract of the Constitution by allowing Governors to circumvent State legislatures.
https://twitter.com/FuctupMike/status/1341548817611706370
On January 6, @Mike_Pence is expected to count the legitimate votes and THROW OUT THE FRAUDULENT VOTES!
Oh, see how the LAW ACTUALLY WORKS??
(I was called a CHILD for knowing about this... *sigh*)

Senators Sue To Get Access To Voting Data:
https://twitter.com/AZGOP/status/1341582955483983873
https://twitter.com/SenRonJohnson/status/1341530716652367874

Remember the CONCOMMS?
EAM LOYALISTS:
RED1: POTUS twitter removal
RED2: Central communications blackout [continental US]
RED3: CLAS movement PELOSI or PENCE
RED4: Movement of MIL assets [10th Mountain_1st Marine_CPSD_Marine_QVIR] to central locations under guise of citizen riot control.
RED5: NAT MIL COM CEN
RED6: SEC OF DEF _instruct1
USSS
CASTLE_ROCK

RED1 CONFIRMED: https://saraacarter.com/twitter-will-clear-potus-account-followers-biden-campaign/
President-elect Joe Biden‘s campaign digital director   said that the accounts which the official POTUS and White House Twitter accounts follow will all be unfollowed by Twitter when Biden becomes president in January, Twitter reportedly told Biden’s team.

Merry Christmas and New Year To All! And To All A Good Night!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 23, 2020, 11:25:53 PM
Quote
Will it be another kraken?

Sydney Powell says she%u2019s now been banned from the White House. This just keeps getting better. 

Get your fake news straight: %u201C...blocked by the White House counsel and others from seeing or speaking to the president%u201D on one day, by rino defeatist underlings who like to play those kind of games.

Not banned. Nice try word-switch misrepresentation man. One look at her twitter feed and she is still exchanging comments and reply's with the GE...

See, if you are trying to cause the other side to despair; it's much better to drop stuff that's harder to refute:

Creepy Joe Biden Call:
https://mobile.twitter.com/RowdyRep/status/1341499773455622145

Quote from: According to Fake President-Elect:link=topic=42372.msg1157686#msg1157686 date=1608767829
This country is doomed. It's doomed, not just because of African-Americans, but because by 2040, this country is going to be minority white-European. You hear me? And you guys are going to have to start working more with Hispanics. Who make up a larger portion of population than y'all do!


Some are trying to say it's fake, but it's just a natural extension of his previous public statements:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ep8l3G9XEAA2WOf?format=jpg&name=900x900)


And just so that this never gets memory holed:



How is Creepy Joe Biden's public statement not evidence?

Why should we not take this man at his word?

Why don't you quote the rest of his sentence? Or the rest of the nearly 2-hour Zoom call? Oh, because you're dishonest. Here's the full sentence:

"If we cannot make significant progress on racial equity, this country is doomed."

Here's the full  call.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=4489&v=a3G7n21p0kY
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 23, 2020, 11:50:20 PM
Fud, lies lies lies, racist comment, lies. Fud fud fud lies lies lies.
-snipped-
Here's why Joe Biden was Hide - en:
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 23, 2020, 11:51:07 PM
Its not proving a stolen election.  It is about proving that the election was legitimate.

You are confused; the burden of proof is still with those claiming it is not legitimate.

Will Pence Save America?
https://twitter.com/TheRightMelissa/status/1341579724687073280
As President of the Senate, @Mike_Pence has sole power to tell the states he will not accept their electors b/c they vioated the Constittion. At this point the legislatures will either have to select new electors or stand down This will put Dems on defense from now till Jan 6th. He cannot LEGALLY accept fraudelent electors Dec 23rd is his highest call of duty is to defend the Constitution from the States failure to follow it. These States are in breach of contract of the Constitution by allowing Governors to circumvent State legislatures.

This is in error; Pence does not decide if votes are fraudulent. The House and Senate decide if the electoral votes of any state objected to count or not, provided at least one Representative and one Senator sign onto the objection. The default is to accept the slate of electors for each state that met the safe harbor deadline. The House will not agree with any objection to Biden electors unless some actual evidence is produced, which has so far been a complete failure, and that dooms any objection (which probably won't get enough support in the Senate either, as enough Republicans have already dismissed the idea).

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11641
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 23, 2020, 11:58:46 PM
Its not proving a stolen election.  It is about proving that the election was legitimate.

You are confused; the burden of proof is still with those claiming it is not legitimate.

You dont accept an unverified election because elections are not inherently innocent until proven guilty.

You need to prove that it was both a free and fair election.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 24, 2020, 12:20:32 AM
Its not proving a stolen election.  It is about proving that the election was legitimate.

You are confused; the burden of proof is still with those claiming it is not legitimate.

You dont accept an unverified election because elections are not inherently innocent until proven guilty.

You need to prove that it was both a free and fair election.
@Shasarak, don't you understand yet? You could bring forth video where by every single poll worker signs a document stating: "I committed election fraud and I am proud of it!" and he would STILL say: "That's NOT PROOF! I don't see ANY PROOF! Where is THE PROOF??!!" In other words, in his own words: "I have not seen any evidence of voter fraud", means HE HAS NOT SEEN ANY EVIDENCE IN PERSON WITHIN HIS PRESENCE, AND WITHOUT A JUDGE TELLING HIM: "This is the evidence of fraud, my friend."
Learn his patterns: Attempts to sound intelligent because he has very little idea what is really going on. All he knows is HATE, SPITE, LIES, and MURDER! He has yet to PROVE WITH EVIDENCE his side. All burdens are upon his enemies, and he accuses his enemies what he himself does. I believe he is an antisemite. I think he hates SHEM.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 24, 2020, 04:50:14 AM
Greetings!

In this video, Man In America provides an outstanding analysis of the 2020 Election, and the threat facing America. An excellent video, and an excellent analysis of the situation! WATCH THE VIDEO!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 24, 2020, 09:01:06 AM
Fud, lies lies lies, racist comment, lies. Fud fud fud lies lies lies.
-snipped-
Here's why Joe Biden was Hide - en:


You can call it lies but that doesn't make it so, especially when the video proof of what I said is right there, posted by me. I mean you're basically pointing at white and calling it black. Someone is lying here, and it ain't me.

Also, serious question, when was your diagnosis of mental illness, and what meds do you take?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 24, 2020, 11:18:10 AM
Its not proving a stolen election.  It is about proving that the election was legitimate.

You are confused; the burden of proof is still with those claiming it is not legitimate.

You dont accept an unverified election because elections are not inherently innocent until proven guilty.

You need to prove that it was both a free and fair election.

No, claims that it was not a free and fair election likely require a showing by the preponderance of evidence (although assertions of criminality would require proof beyond a reasonable doubt). The Trump campaign and related efforts like the kraken have failed in every legal case (except one - an extended period to cure absentee ballots in Pennsylvania was struck down, but the small number of votes in question were kept separate and never counted). With no evidence, the certified election results will stand per the "safe harbor" provision.
Quote
The U.S. Code(3 U.S.C. §5)provides that if election results are contested in any state, and if the state, prior to election day,has enacted procedures to settle controversies or contests over electors and electoral votes, and if these procedures have been applied, and the results have been determined six days before the electors’ meetings, then these results are considered to be conclusive, and will apply in the counting of the electoral votes.

Produce your evidence! I'll let jhkim debunk it! ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 24, 2020, 11:37:44 AM
Every time I think of the kraken, I just think about those old maps with "Here Be Monsters" scribbled on the margins with little drawings of fictitious beasts. I figure the court papers that were filed about the "fraud" were much the same.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 24, 2020, 02:37:32 PM
No Evidence Of FRAUD, say those who want to create a new AUSCHWITZ IN AMERICA!

Nope nope nope. Line crossed. You do not get to use the history of my families pain and death in your stupid political ranting bullshit. I mean you have the free speech right but you don't have the right to be consequence free from that fucking bullshit antic.

No, there are no concentration camps. No, nothing going on in America is comparable to Auschwitz, and nothing anyone wants to "create" is either. Yes, you're a complete fucking creepy asshole for claiming there is or plans to be. No, there is no defense other than 'I am sorry you're right I went to far on that one' for that comment.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 24, 2020, 02:39:12 PM
Its not proving a stolen election.  It is about proving that the election was legitimate.

You are confused; the burden of proof is still with those claiming it is not legitimate.

You dont accept an unverified election because elections are not inherently innocent until proven guilty.

You need to prove that it was both a free and fair election.
@Shasarak, don't you understand yet? You could bring forth video where by every single poll worker signs a document stating: "I committed election fraud and I am proud of it!" and he would STILL say: "That's NOT PROOF! I don't see ANY PROOF! Where is THE PROOF??!!" In other words, in his own words: "I have not seen any evidence of voter fraud", means HE HAS NOT SEEN ANY EVIDENCE IN PERSON WITHIN HIS PRESENCE, AND WITHOUT A JUDGE TELLING HIM: "This is the evidence of fraud, my friend."
Learn his patterns: Attempts to sound intelligent because he has very little idea what is really going on. All he knows is HATE, SPITE, LIES, and MURDER! He has yet to PROVE WITH EVIDENCE his side. All burdens are upon his enemies, and he accuses his enemies what he himself does. I believe he is an antisemite. I think he hates SHEM.

Because we have an objective system to determine what rises to proof of a crime in this nation, and we call them courts. Not Youtube videos, not extreme biased Internet media, not social media, they're called courts.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 24, 2020, 03:03:31 PM
No Evidence Of FRAUD, say those who want to create a new AUSCHWITZ IN AMERICA!

Nope nope nope. Line crossed. You do not get to use the history of my families pain and death in your stupid political ranting bullshit. I mean you have the free speech right but you don't have the right to be consequence free from that fucking bullshit antic.

No, there are no concentration camps. No, nothing going on in America is comparable to Auschwitz, and nothing anyone wants to "create" is either. Yes, you're a complete fucking creepy asshole for claiming there is or plans to be. No, there is no defense other than 'I am sorry you're right I went to far on that one' for that comment.
You're letting the troll score points.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 24, 2020, 03:36:07 PM
No Evidence Of FRAUD, say those who want to create a new AUSCHWITZ IN AMERICA!

Nope nope nope. Line crossed. You do not get to use the history of my families pain and death in your stupid political ranting bullshit. I mean you have the free speech right but you don't have the right to be consequence free from that fucking bullshit antic.

No, there are no concentration camps. No, nothing going on in America is comparable to Auschwitz, and nothing anyone wants to "create" is either. Yes, you're a complete fucking creepy asshole for claiming there is or plans to be. No, there is no defense other than 'I am sorry you're right I went to far on that one' for that comment.
You're letting the troll score points.

You might not be the best person here to be complaining about letting trolls score points.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 24, 2020, 03:41:26 PM
No Evidence Of FRAUD, say those who want to create a new AUSCHWITZ IN AMERICA!

Nope nope nope. Line crossed. You do not get to use the history of my families pain and death in your stupid political ranting bullshit. I mean you have the free speech right but you don't have the right to be consequence free from that fucking bullshit antic.

No, there are no concentration camps. No, nothing going on in America is comparable to Auschwitz, and nothing anyone wants to "create" is either. Yes, you're a complete fucking creepy asshole for claiming there is or plans to be. No, there is no defense other than 'I am sorry you're right I went to far on that one' for that comment.
You're letting the troll score points.

You might not be the best person here to be complaining about letting trolls score points.
Perhaps,  perhaps not. I don't take anyone here seriously these days.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 24, 2020, 04:50:07 PM
>we have an objective system to determine what rises to proof of a crime
>they're called courts.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/469a99a148ef59cb34e68d7ad7877ba8/tenor.gif)

Dude, there have been innocent men sent to DEATH Row by US courts and later found innocent. Multiple times.

And that's when courts actually look at the evidence and don't dismiss it on procedural grounds.

THAT's how effective the US court system is at "objectively" determining WTF "proof" is.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 24, 2020, 05:04:03 PM
Looks like Sydney Powell's star witness isn't just a fake Intelligence Officer, but a fake M.D. as well...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/sidney-powells-secret-intelligence-contractor-witness-is-a-pro-trump-podcaster/2020/12/24/d5a1ab9e-4403-11eb-a277-49a6d1f9dff1_story.html

I'm Kraken up at this story
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 24, 2020, 05:17:16 PM
What a fucking clownshow. The morons praising the Emperor's New Claims are either deluded as fuck or deliberately trying to deceive others. Ok, maybe a mix of both. Regardless,  it's fucking pathetic that they boast that they're the "patriots" when they're quite obviously not.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 24, 2020, 05:37:11 PM
>we have an objective system to determine what rises to proof of a crime
>they're called courts.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/469a99a148ef59cb34e68d7ad7877ba8/tenor.gif)

Dude, there have been innocent men sent to DEATH Row by US courts and later found innocent. Multiple times.

And that's when courts actually look at the evidence and don't dismiss it on procedural grounds.

THAT's how effective the US court system is at "objectively" determining WTF "proof" is.

I didn't say it was a PERFECT system. It's run by human beings so it cannot be perfect.

I said it was objective. Which it is. Certainly on the scale from more subjective to more objective, it's far closer to objective than rando on YouTube posting vids for clicks.

So yes, you lack proof if you cannot convince a Judge/Jury that you're correct concerning criminal claims.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 24, 2020, 05:38:29 PM
Now can someone please tell me how Trump is the last stand against socialism and communism, while he's threatening a veto on the stimulus because it doesn't give away enough free money to everyone? You know, a plan BERNIE SANDERS proposed! AOC and Pelosi are also praising it (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-call-for-2000-stimulus-checks-hailed-by-critics-pelosi-aoc-sanders).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on December 24, 2020, 05:40:02 PM
Now can someone please tell me how Trump is the last stand against socialism and communism, while he's threatening a veto on the stimulus because it doesn't give away enough free money to everyone? You know, a plan BERNIE SANDERS proposed!

To be serious for a moment.  Does anyone know the implications concerning the one time payment?   Considering the bill was not signed nor vetoed. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 24, 2020, 05:45:41 PM
Now can someone please tell me how Trump is the last stand against socialism and communism, while he's threatening a veto on the stimulus because it doesn't give away enough free money to everyone? You know, a plan BERNIE SANDERS proposed!

To be serious for a moment.  Does anyone know the implications concerning the one time payment?   Considering the bill was not signed nor vetoed.

Right now it's a pocket veto. IE if he does not sign it for 10 days after passage, it goes away. It's back to Congress at the moment for debate, technically.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 24, 2020, 06:07:54 PM
Its not proving a stolen election.  It is about proving that the election was legitimate.

You are confused; the burden of proof is still with those claiming it is not legitimate.

You dont accept an unverified election because elections are not inherently innocent until proven guilty.

You need to prove that it was both a free and fair election.

No, claims that it was not a free and fair election likely require a showing by the preponderance of evidence (although assertions of criminality would require proof beyond a reasonable doubt).

You dont prove a negative dumbie

You prove it was free and fair, you dont prove that it was not. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 24, 2020, 06:09:52 PM
Looks like Sydney Powell's star witness isn't just a fake Intelligence Officer, but a fake M.D. as well...

Speaking of fake MDs, I heard suggestions that they make Jill Bidan the Surgeon General.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 24, 2020, 06:15:40 PM
Its not proving a stolen election.  It is about proving that the election was legitimate.

You are confused; the burden of proof is still with those claiming it is not legitimate.

You dont accept an unverified election because elections are not inherently innocent until proven guilty.

You need to prove that it was both a free and fair election.

No, claims that it was not a free and fair election likely require a showing by the preponderance of evidence (although assertions of criminality would require proof beyond a reasonable doubt).

You dont prove a negative dumbie

You prove it was free and fair, you dont prove that it was not.
No, dipshit, you prove a crime (e.g., fraud) was committed. That has not occurred in any meaningful way.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 24, 2020, 06:22:52 PM
No, dipshit, you prove a crime (e.g., fraud) was committed. That has not occurred in any meaningful way.

Thanks for the derpy derp, Happy Daze
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 24, 2020, 06:32:11 PM
Now can someone please tell me how Trump is the last stand against socialism and communism, while he's threatening a veto on the stimulus because it doesn't give away enough free money to everyone? You know, a plan BERNIE SANDERS proposed! AOC and Pelosi are also praising it (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-call-for-2000-stimulus-checks-hailed-by-critics-pelosi-aoc-sanders).

I voted for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 primaries and donated to his campaign, so if anything that makes me like Trump even more.

But TBH, I'd rather they just got rid of that bill ENTIELY. What's in the rest of that bill is WORSE than getting those $2K.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 24, 2020, 06:40:38 PM
But TBH, I'd rather they just got rid of that bill ENTIELY. What's in the rest of that bill is WORSE than getting those $2K.
Remember the 2008 stimulus bill? They had to pass it, to save the economy!

Yet even under the bankrupt Keynesian theories they used to justify massive government spending, stimulus spending has to be shovel-ready. You need boots on the ground, doing work, almost instantly, or it won't help.

There was almost none of that, in the bill. Instead, the bill was every pork barrel project Congress hadn't managed to shove down the throats of the American public during the preceding 50 years.

The new bill is another pile of pork, waste, and debt.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 24, 2020, 06:41:37 PM
Looks like Sydney Powell's star witness isn't just a fake Intelligence Officer, but a fake M.D. as well...

Speaking of fake MDs, I heard suggestions that they make Jill Bidan the Surgeon General.
That's Doctor Jill Biden, the Doctor General, to you.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on December 24, 2020, 06:50:27 PM
Now can someone please tell me how Trump is the last stand against socialism and communism, while he's threatening a veto on the stimulus because it doesn't give away enough free money to everyone? You know, a plan BERNIE SANDERS proposed! AOC and Pelosi are also praising it (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-call-for-2000-stimulus-checks-hailed-by-critics-pelosi-aoc-sanders).

Sure.  First of all, its patently absurd to pay 2700 dollars to receive 600 dollars, no matter how you parse it.  Second this bill is one of the biggest (longest in terms of page count) in history, if not the absolute record holder (I believe it is, in fact, the record holder).  Most of that 2100 dollars that American Tax Payers are spending to receive 600 dollars of 'stimulous' is not even going to projects or businesses in America, but are being paid to countries like Pakistan, Egypt and others.

Not that anyone is exactly certain, because in addition to being absurdly long, they were given a handful of hours to parse those 6000 thousand pages (That is ten pages per dollar received in stimulus, and 2 dollars and change for every dollars spent by a taxpayer...) so they could exercise informed consent in the performance of their representative duties.

As much as I enjoy getting money for sitting on my ass, this looks like a terrible deal on the face of it, and I'm glad its being quashed. I don't care who is doing the quashing, or who put their hands in my pocket to take all that money in the first place.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 24, 2020, 08:26:00 PM
Now can someone please tell me how Trump is the last stand against socialism and communism, while he's threatening a veto on the stimulus because it doesn't give away enough free money to everyone? You know, a plan BERNIE SANDERS proposed! AOC and Pelosi are also praising it (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-call-for-2000-stimulus-checks-hailed-by-critics-pelosi-aoc-sanders).

I voted for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 primaries and donated to his campaign, so if anything that makes me like Trump even more.

But TBH, I'd rather they just got rid of that bill ENTIELY. What's in the rest of that bill is WORSE than getting those $2K.

Cool. I assume that means SHARK wants you hanged for treason or something.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 24, 2020, 08:29:18 PM
Now can someone please tell me how Trump is the last stand against socialism and communism, while he's threatening a veto on the stimulus because it doesn't give away enough free money to everyone? You know, a plan BERNIE SANDERS proposed! AOC and Pelosi are also praising it (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-call-for-2000-stimulus-checks-hailed-by-critics-pelosi-aoc-sanders).

Sure.  First of all, its patently absurd to pay 2700 dollars to receive 600 dollars, no matter how you parse it.  Second this bill is one of the biggest (longest in terms of page count) in history, if not the absolute record holder (I believe it is, in fact, the record holder).  Most of that 2100 dollars that American Tax Payers are spending to receive 600 dollars of 'stimulous' is not even going to projects or businesses in America, but are being paid to countries like Pakistan, Egypt and others.

Not that anyone is exactly certain, because in addition to being absurdly long, they were given a handful of hours to parse those 6000 thousand pages (That is ten pages per dollar received in stimulus, and 2 dollars and change for every dollars spent by a taxpayer...) so they could exercise informed consent in the performance of their representative duties.

As much as I enjoy getting money for sitting on my ass, this looks like a terrible deal on the face of it, and I'm glad its being quashed. I don't care who is doing the quashing, or who put their hands in my pocket to take all that money in the first place.

You fail.

I repeat: he's threatening to veto the bill BECAUSE IT DOESN'T GIVE ENOUGH MONEY AWAY FOR FREE TO EVERYONE. All the rest of that isn't the primary reason he's threatening a veto. He want's $2000 instead of $600 to everyone. If they just changed that one clause looks like he'd sign. He wants other stuff done too, but his primary objection is it's not enough free money to everyone.

So how is that not socialist?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on December 24, 2020, 09:23:07 PM


You fail.

I repeat: he's threatening to veto the bill BECAUSE IT DOESN'T GIVE ENOUGH MONEY AWAY FOR FREE TO EVERYONE. All the rest of that isn't the primary reason he's threatening a veto. He want's $2000 instead of $600 to everyone. If they just changed that one clause looks like he'd sign. He wants other stuff done too, but his primary objection is it's not enough free money to everyone.

So how is that not socialist?


How do I fail?  What a weird thing to say in response to my post.  I never said why the Trumpenfurher vetoed it, I responded with why I was glad he vetoed it, myself and a lot of other people, as it turns out.

Now, you come along and say he vetoed it because it doesn't pay out enough, which is fine.  I said that the bill cost 2700 dollars for each tax payer, and that 600 dollars is a joke. Now you say that The Don wanted 2000 instead of 600. Well, I still think that's an awful shit deal... I'm still losing 700 dollars at the end of the day, but hell, I'd be happy to lose only 700 vs losing 2100... I'd rather not lose any.

Also, I didn't mention one word about Socialist, so I'm not sure what your stinger question is supposed to imply.  Lets go over my complaints and see if I missed anything...

Paying 2700 dollars for 600 dollars? Nope, we just covered that. Cheeto Emperor wants to increase it to 2000 dollars. That's a weak sister win, but its still a win. Maybe he also wanted to bring down the cost per person too? Who knows. 

The bill was too damn long, absurdly long: Not about socialism.

There was nowhere near the time, mandated by law btw, for lawmakers to actually read the bill before they had to vote: Also not about socialism.

There was an awful lot of money in this relief bill to countries that do not spell their name 'United States of America': Thats a lot of things, but I"m pretty sure my complaint was not about 'Socialism' there. It was about US lawmakers giving my money to other countries while whispering in my ear that it was all for me. 


Now, as it happens, sure, I think any redistributionist program of passing out tax payer dollars to non-tax payers smacks of a socialist policy, but frankly that's so far down the list of complaints I might have about this particular bill that it never even occurred to me until now.  So... congratulations? You have successfully discovered yet another reason to cheer it was vetoed. 

Thanks, Mistwell!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 24, 2020, 10:54:21 PM
========================================================
MERRY FUCKING CHRISTMAS SCRUBS!                                              =
It's that time again... but this time, let's keep it lighthearted, shall we?      =
========================================================

DANGANRONPA: ELECTION EDITION
------------------------------
Monokuma asks the question:
Getting tired of the election yet?
Ready to give in to despair yet?
No?
Well, that despair isn't going to have to wait too much longer!
Have a great last Christmas!
Cuz the KILLING GAME IS ABOUT TO BEGIN!
Puh-pupupupu...

Those who plan on OBJECTING Certification:
https://twitter.com/Lancegooden/status/1341773798677258240
https://twitter.com/laurenboebert/status/1342139286121029632
https://twitter.com/mtgreenee/status/1342147374895017985

The Dem's enemies list is getting longer by the day!

Operation Pence Card:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/mike-pence-must-tomorrow-president-trump-retweets-operation-pence-card-urging-vp-act-fraudulent-election/
Truly, despair inducing isn't it?

Trump's LAST Abuse of Power ~ PARDONS:
https://twitter.com/TheBradShepard/status/1342087533044371456
How DARE YOU?! HOW dare you?!

My Take:
Trump is now showing the people, We are experiencing the Great Awakening, this Awakening is for everything the Deep State has been doing, the people must see it all and demand change. This is what Trump is doing, look at pandemic, the riots, the election fraud, the stimulus for covid, people are waking up and more are waking up each and every day, he is exposing the system to the American people. He is showing that these people are not for the people, they work for the Deep State.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 24, 2020, 11:42:48 PM
If they're going to give money away to favored corporate interests and NGOs, might as well give some to normal people.

Romney's GOP has no ground to stand on here.  They love to give away money to everyone except joe lunchpail.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 25, 2020, 01:40:39 PM
No, claims that it was not a free and fair election likely require a showing by the preponderance of evidence (although assertions of criminality would require proof beyond a reasonable doubt).

You dont prove a negative dumbie

Many mathematicians are famous for proving negatives: e.g., Galois, Wantzel, Gödel, Turing. But in this case...

Quote
You prove it was free and fair, you dont prove that it was not.

... you prove there was massive wrongdoing to change the election result, you don't prove that there was not.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 25, 2020, 01:47:37 PM
First of all, its patently absurd to pay 2700 dollars to receive 600 dollars, no matter how you parse it.

Depending on when you have to repay it, that would make perfect sense; many people borrow money to buy a house or car now, and repay a greater amount over time. For federal debt, it often never gets paid off; it simply diminishes in significance as the economy grows. The US owed more than its GDP at the end of World War II and never really paid off most of it; the economy grew so that the present day value of that debt, less the $3 trillion, is not really a significant part of the national debt.

The US federal government should spend countercyclically; borrow and spend when the economy falters. States generally can't do that, as most are required to have balanced budgets. $600 is too much to people who don't really need it (but may make it politically more feasible) and too little to people who desperately need more; increased unemployment benefits would be much better (but maybe less likely to get broad support).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 25, 2020, 04:20:34 PM
Sydney Powell's secret intelligence source turns out to be a pro-trump podcaster. (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/sidney-powells-secret-intelligence-contractor-witness-is-a-pro-trump-podcaster/) She's also a crook ("she used money she collected — ostensibly to fund homeless shelters and wreaths for veterans’ graves — on purchases for herself at McDonald’s, QVC and elsewhere") and a liar ("falsely claimed to be a medical doctor and to have both a Ph.D. and an MBA. They said she used multiple aliases and social security numbers and created exaggerated online résumés as part of what they called “a persistent effort … to deceive others.”").

How gullible must you be to have fallen for that?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 25, 2020, 05:15:54 PM
Sydney Powell's secret intelligence source turns out to be a pro-trump podcaster. (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/sidney-powells-secret-intelligence-contractor-witness-is-a-pro-trump-podcaster/) She's also a crook ("she used money she collected — ostensibly to fund homeless shelters and wreaths for veterans’ graves — on purchases for herself at McDonald’s, QVC and elsewhere") and a liar ("falsely claimed to be a medical doctor and to have both a Ph.D. and an MBA. They said she used multiple aliases and social security numbers and created exaggerated online résumés as part of what they called “a persistent effort … to deceive others.”").

How gullible must you be to have fallen for that?
Not as gullible as someone quoting the Washington Post, which has been so far in the tank with Orange Man Bad they're less trustworthy than the Weekly World News.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 25, 2020, 06:07:10 PM
Sydney Powell's secret intelligence source turns out to be a pro-trump podcaster. (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/sidney-powells-secret-intelligence-contractor-witness-is-a-pro-trump-podcaster/) She's also a crook ("she used money she collected — ostensibly to fund homeless shelters and wreaths for veterans’ graves — on purchases for herself at McDonald’s, QVC and elsewhere") and a liar ("falsely claimed to be a medical doctor and to have both a Ph.D. and an MBA. They said she used multiple aliases and social security numbers and created exaggerated online résumés as part of what they called “a persistent effort … to deceive others.”").

How gullible must you be to have fallen for that?

MAGA level gullible.

Not as gullible as someone quoting the Washington Post, which has been so far in the tank with Orange Man Bad they're less trustworthy than the Weekly World News.

The link is to the Seattle Times, which references the Washington Post identification of the affidavit author, who admitted authorship in an interview, but the story has other sources, like the Republican Attorney General and a District Court Judge of North Dakota.
https://attorneygeneral.nd.gov/news/attorney-general-details-investigation-unlicensed-business-alleged-fraud-tore-maras-lindeman
https://attorneygeneral.nd.gov/sites/ag/files/documents/RecentActions/2020-09-14-MagicCityChristmas-Judgment.pdf
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 25, 2020, 06:58:37 PM
... you prove there was massive wrongdoing to change the election result, you don't prove that there was not.

A free and fair election does not do things like this:

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Famericanlookout.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F11%2FDetroit-Polling-Windows-1200x630.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)

so therefore you need to prove it was free and fair.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 25, 2020, 07:54:35 PM
Sydney Powell's secret intelligence source turns out to be a pro-trump podcaster. (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/sidney-powells-secret-intelligence-contractor-witness-is-a-pro-trump-podcaster/) She's also a crook ("she used money she collected — ostensibly to fund homeless shelters and wreaths for veterans’ graves — on purchases for herself at McDonald’s, QVC and elsewhere") and a liar ("falsely claimed to be a medical doctor and to have both a Ph.D. and an MBA. They said she used multiple aliases and social security numbers and created exaggerated online résumés as part of what they called “a persistent effort … to deceive others.”").

How gullible must you be to have fallen for that?
Not as gullible as someone quoting the Washington Post, which has been so far in the tank with Orange Man Bad they're less trustworthy than the Weekly World News.

"Maras-Lindeman reportedly acknowledged that she wrote the affidavit"

As LawAndCrime reports (https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/in-a-kraken-christmas-carol-a-secret-sidney-powell-witnesss-yuletide-fraud-case-haunts-her-three-years-later/): "Three yuletide seasons ago, a North Dakota resident named Terpsichore “Tore” Maras-Lindeman promised a holiday concert that she billed as a “Magic City Christmas,” named after the roughly 40,000-population city of Minot where she promised to hold a concert to benefit three homeless shelters. The state’s attorney general discovered she spent what little she raised on GoFundMe at McDonald’s, Wal-Mart, Waxing the City, Target and other stores. Those findings were certified by a judge who slapped the purported do-gooder with more than $25,000 in civil penalties and attorneys’ fees earlier this year."

That's her. That's your patriotic super spy hero. Just another scumbag fraudster.

And as mentioned above by the Seattle Times, she was also caught faking her credentials previously, including fake social security card, fact claims to be a medical doctor, etc..

She's a huckster. You fell for a grift. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 25, 2020, 08:35:18 PM
Sydney Powell's secret intelligence source turns out to be a pro-trump podcaster. (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/sidney-powells-secret-intelligence-contractor-witness-is-a-pro-trump-podcaster/) She's also a crook ("she used money she collected — ostensibly to fund homeless shelters and wreaths for veterans’ graves — on purchases for herself at McDonald’s, QVC and elsewhere") and a liar ("falsely claimed to be a medical doctor and to have both a Ph.D. and an MBA. They said she used multiple aliases and social security numbers and created exaggerated online résumés as part of what they called “a persistent effort … to deceive others.”").

How gullible must you be to have fallen for that?
Not as gullible as someone quoting the Washington Post, which has been so far in the tank with Orange Man Bad they're less trustworthy than the Weekly World News.

"Maras-Lindeman reportedly acknowledged that she wrote the affidavit"

As LawAndCrime reports (https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/in-a-kraken-christmas-carol-a-secret-sidney-powell-witnesss-yuletide-fraud-case-haunts-her-three-years-later/): "Three yuletide seasons ago, a North Dakota resident named Terpsichore “Tore” Maras-Lindeman promised a holiday concert that she billed as a “Magic City Christmas,” named after the roughly 40,000-population city of Minot where she promised to hold a concert to benefit three homeless shelters. The state’s attorney general discovered she spent what little she raised on GoFundMe at McDonald’s, Wal-Mart, Waxing the City, Target and other stores. Those findings were certified by a judge who slapped the purported do-gooder with more than $25,000 in civil penalties and attorneys’ fees earlier this year."

That's her. That's your patriotic super spy hero. Just another scumbag fraudster.

And as mentioned above by the Seattle Times, she was also caught faking her credentials previously, including fake social security card, fact claims to be a medical doctor, etc..

She's a huckster. You fell for a grift.

Again.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 25, 2020, 08:37:27 PM
Looks like Sydney Powell's star witness isn't just a fake Intelligence Officer, but a fake M.D. as well...

Speaking of fake MDs, I heard suggestions that they make Jill Bidan the Surgeon General.

Jill Biden never claimed to be an M.D., though? But, since you're so up in arms about phony credentials, Sebastian Gorka is that way.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 25, 2020, 08:40:41 PM
... you prove there was massive wrongdoing to change the election result, you don't prove that there was not.

A free and fair election does not do things like this:

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Famericanlookout.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F11%2FDetroit-Polling-Windows-1200x630.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)

so therefore you need to prove it was free and fair.

Greetings!

What? Wait, Shasarak! Covering windows, obscuring observation of voting proceedings, and preventing opposition party observers to supervise and otherwise participate in elections isn't fair, honest, and transparent? ;D

But the Leftist Democrats here insist that the 2020 Election has been just fine! "The most secure and safe election EVAR!!!" ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 25, 2020, 09:04:04 PM
Looks like Sydney Powell's star witness isn't just a fake Intelligence Officer, but a fake M.D. as well...

Speaking of fake MDs, I heard suggestions that they make Jill Bidan the Surgeon General.

Jill Biden never claimed to be an M.D., though? But, since you're so up in arms about phony credentials, Sebastian Gorka is that way.

Greetings!

Honestly, I think the whole "Jill Biden is not a Doctor!" is just as ridiculous as claiming Sebastian Gorka is not a Doctor. Yes, they are both doctors, both have PH.D's. Yes, neither one is a *medical doctor*--their respective credentials are in other fields--and this I think may be one of the reasons medical doctors have "Dr. John Smith, M.D." after their names. After reading some of these articles about medical commissions, newspaper editing standards in Canada, whatever, claiming to not call PH.D's "Doctor" and hospitals making particular distinctions about staff--*shrugs* I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, though at my university, students, administrators, and faculty alike routinely made references to "Yes, this Philosophy class is taught by Dr. Robert Smith" or "Yeah, my mentor in Ancient Roman History was Dr. Michael Brick" and "Awesome! That book on International Relations and Politics, written by Dr. Jenny Jumper was one of the best!" Attending academic conferences, many people were referred to by their titles--Professor, or much of the time, Dr. so and so. None of these situations or experiences, or the people involved, were ever under the impression that any of the academics referenced were *medical doctors* That distinction, to the best of my knowledge, does not mean that such people do not have the title, and have not therefore earned the title, of "Dr." They just are not medical doctors, which is easily distinguished. I am familiar with some sentiment that those *insisting* on being addressed as "Dr." is pompous and overbearing. *Shruggs* I have seen some of that, too. I knew professors that were fine with being addressed as "Dr." or "professor" or "Mr. so and so." Or, once you got to know them, by just there first names, particularly when in an informal setting--like hanging out in their office hours, or having lunch with them.

So much of this just seems petty to me. People that have PH.D's have attended school for 8 years or more, and have earned respect for their work. They are no less educated than a medical doctor, though have focused their academic efforts and expertise on a different field other than medicine. I think that both Dr. Jill Biden and Dr. Sebastian Gorka would likely agree with me.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 25, 2020, 09:06:08 PM
Greetings!

What? Wait, Shasarak! Covering windows, obscuring observation of voting proceedings, and preventing opposition party observers to supervise and otherwise participate in elections isn't fair, honest, and transparent? ;D

But the Leftist Democrats here insist that the 2020 Election has been just fine! "The most secure and safe election EVAR!!!" ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Exactly, why ask for proof that they are doing something wrong when they are acting so suspiciously right in front of your eyes.

Honest people would not do things like that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 25, 2020, 09:13:41 PM
Looks like Sydney Powell's star witness isn't just a fake Intelligence Officer, but a fake M.D. as well...

Speaking of fake MDs, I heard suggestions that they make Jill Bidan the Surgeon General.

Jill Biden never claimed to be an M.D., though? But, since you're so up in arms about phony credentials, Sebastian Gorka is that way.

Did Doctor Biden not claim to be an M.D.?  What an odd thing for a Doctor to have to do, to claim that they are a Doctor but not actually a "real" Doctor.

So a Doctor Lite?  An Almost Doctor? A Doctor of Education?  A Whats up, Doc?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 25, 2020, 09:56:28 PM
Looks like Sydney Powell's star witness isn't just a fake Intelligence Officer, but a fake M.D. as well...

Speaking of fake MDs, I heard suggestions that they make Jill Bidan the Surgeon General.

Jill Biden never claimed to be an M.D., though? But, since you're so up in arms about phony credentials, Sebastian Gorka is that way.

Did Doctor Biden not claim to be an M.D.?  What an odd thing for a Doctor to have to do, to claim that they are a Doctor but not actually a "real" Doctor.

So a Doctor Lite?  An Almost Doctor? A Doctor of Education?  A Whats up, Doc?
YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! Doctor Lite:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Insisting on being called “Doctor” when you don’t heal people is, among most holders of doctorates, seen as a gauche, silly, cringey ego trip. Consider “Dr.” Jill Biden, who doesn’t even hold a Ph.D. but rather a lesser Ed.D., something of a joke in the academic world. President-elect Joe Biden once explained that his wife sought the degree purely for status reasons: “She said, ‘I was so sick of the mail coming to Sen. and Mrs. Biden. I wanted to get mail addressed to Dr. and Sen. Biden.’ That’s the real reason she got her doctorate,” Joe Biden has said.

Mrs. Biden wanted the credential for its own sake. As for its quality, well. She got it from the University of Delaware, whose ties to her husband, its most illustrious alumnus if you don’t count Joe Flacco, run so deep that it has a school of public policy named after him. That the University of Delaware would have rejected her 2006 dissertation as sloppy, poorly written, non-academic, and barely fit for a middle-school Social Studies classroom (all of which it is) when her husband had been representing its state in the U.S. Senate for more than three decades was about as likely as Tom Hagen telling Vito Corleone that his wife is a fat sow on payday. The only risk to the University of Delaware was that it might strain its collective wrist in its rush to rubber-stamp her doctoral paper. Mrs. Biden could have turned in a quarter-a**ed excuse for a magazine article written at the level of Simple English Wikipedia and been heartily congratulated by the university for her towering mastery. Which is exactly what happened.

Jill Biden’s dissertation is not an addition to the sum total of human knowledge. It is not a demonstration of expertise in its specific topic or its broad field. It is a gasping, wheezing, frail little Disney forest creature that begs you to notice the effort it makes to be the thing it is imitating while failing so pathetically that any witnesses to its ineptitude must feel compelled, out of manners alone, to drag it to the nearest podium and give it a participation trophy. Which is more or less what an Ed.D. is. It’s a degree that only deeply unimpressive people feel confers the honorific of “Doctor.” People who are actually smart understand that being in possession of a credential is no proof of intelligence.

As Joe Biden has frankly noted, Mrs. Biden sought the Dr. honorific to rebuild her amour propre. Much of the press plays along, addressing Jill Biden as “Dr. Biden” even when actual medical doctors are referred to without the honorific if they are not currently practicing. Eminent pediatric neurosurgeon and HUD secretary Ben Carson is now “Mr. Carson” to the New York Times, but the same paper refers to Mrs. Biden as “Dr. Biden.” This practice appears to contradict the Times’ style guide, which explains that the “Dr.” title is used for non-physicians “only if it is germane to the holder’s primary current occupation (academic, for example, or laboratory research).”

Mrs. Biden until recently taught English composition at NoVa, a small community college in Northern Virginia. To justify addressing her as “Dr.” would require a generous view of what constitutes an “academic,” and judging by the writing skills evinced by her students (“She very bad teacher and it is hard to pass class. I RECOMMEND NOT TAKE THIS PROFESSOR”), they emerged from her tutelage lacking mastery of even very basic grammar. As for the contents of the dissertation, which she cobbled together from a few secondary sources and some vapid interviews and questionnaires she sent around at the campus where she worked before her husband became vice president, Delaware Technical Community College, I’ll go over them in detail in my next column.

From: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/12/jill-bidens-doctorate-is-garbage-because-her-dissertation-is-garbage/
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 25, 2020, 11:06:09 PM
My degree says "Doctorate of Jurisprudence"

The only time I have ever called myself a Doctor is as an obvious joke, to one other lawyer who was making that same stupid joke. It would be very silly to actually call myself Doctor. I went to school for 3 extra years. That's not a doctor.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 25, 2020, 11:23:04 PM
My degree says "Doctorate of Jurisprudence"

The only time I have ever called myself a Doctor is as an obvious joke, to one other lawyer who was making that same stupid joke. It would be very silly to actually call myself Doctor. I went to school for 3 extra years. That's not a doctor.
:o
The HELL??! Are they stating to give these doctorate things away now? Will I find one in a box of CrackerJacks or around a stale piece of bubblegum?! Man! I swear, back in my day you'd get kicked out of college in you didn't toe the socialist line, or say that you loved your parents, or thought Jews were okay, or if you were Jewish! My, times have certainly changed!  :-
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 25, 2020, 11:42:40 PM
... you prove there was massive wrongdoing to change the election result, you don't prove that there was not.

A free and fair election does not do things like this:

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Famericanlookout.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F11%2FDetroit-Polling-Windows-1200x630.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)

so therefore you need to prove it was free and fair.

You are a month and a half late with this. 200+ observers from each party were present. Trump supporters tried the Brooks Brothers riot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot) trick, but election officials are apparently now wise to that. The windows were covered because people outside were videotaping the counting, when absentee ballots with voter information on the envelopes were opened and the ballots showing how the voter voted were removed. You should respect the secret ballot.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/05/media/detroit-windows-covered-ballots-vote-center/index.html

I understand that you are having difficulty processing Trump's loss. Rehashing month old misinformation is not healthy. Joe Biden won the election.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 26, 2020, 12:14:58 AM
My degree says "Doctorate of Jurisprudence"

The only time I have ever called myself a Doctor is as an obvious joke, to one other lawyer who was making that same stupid joke. It would be very silly to actually call myself Doctor. I went to school for 3 extra years. That's not a doctor.

It is not customary to refer to a JD as Doctor. Most lawyers would have this degree in the US, since most states require it for bar admission. (I expect that most law school professors would be called Doctor, even if JD is their only doctorate.) But lawyers do get to call themselves Esquire.

The distinction for both PhDs and EdDs is writing a dissertation, which is a big deal. It is customary for those who hold these degrees to be called Doctor, at least in academic positions. It is not inappropriate for Dr. Jill Biden to use that title.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 26, 2020, 12:50:34 AM
My degree says "Doctorate of Jurisprudence"

The only time I have ever called myself a Doctor is as an obvious joke, to one other lawyer who was making that same stupid joke. It would be very silly to actually call myself Doctor. I went to school for 3 extra years. That's not a doctor.

It is not customary to refer to a JD as Doctor. Most lawyers would have this degree in the US, since most states require it for bar admission. (I expect that most law school professors would be called Doctor, even if JD is their only doctorate.) But lawyers do get to call themselves Esquire.

The distinction for both PhDs and EdDs is writing a dissertation, which is a big deal. It is customary for those who hold these degrees to be called Doctor, at least in academic positions. It is not inappropriate for Dr. Jill Biden to use that title.

Again, my degree says Doctorate of Jurisprudence, not Juris Doctorate. They are the same thing. I did have to write a big deal publishable paper by the way. Maybe that is why it was phrased as a Doctorate first and Jurisprudence second, maybe it's because it was one of the oldest law schools and they had an older tradition, I dunno.

Almost zero law school professors were called Doctor. The one I recall had a medical degree.

I was not speaking to Jill Biden. I am just speaking to the claim that all degrees which say Doctorate are the same for whether you call them Doctor.  They're not all the same treatment. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 26, 2020, 01:02:47 AM
Jill Biden never claimed to be an M.D., though? But, since you're so up in arms about phony credentials, Sebastian Gorka is that way.
Gorka is another example.

Make fun of him while you're making fun of the 46th First Doctor.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 26, 2020, 02:32:55 AM
My degree says "Doctorate of Jurisprudence"

The only time I have ever called myself a Doctor is as an obvious joke, to one other lawyer who was making that same stupid joke. It would be very silly to actually call myself Doctor. I went to school for 3 extra years. That's not a doctor.

It is not customary to refer to a JD as Doctor. Most lawyers would have this degree in the US, since most states require it for bar admission. (I expect that most law school professors would be called Doctor, even if JD is their only doctorate.) But lawyers do get to call themselves Esquire.

The distinction for both PhDs and EdDs is writing a dissertation, which is a big deal. It is customary for those who hold these degrees to be called Doctor, at least in academic positions. It is not inappropriate for Dr. Jill Biden to use that title.

Again, my degree says Doctorate of Jurisprudence, not Juris Doctorate. They are the same thing. I did have to write a big deal publishable paper by the way. Maybe that is why it was phrased as a Doctorate first and Jurisprudence second, maybe it's because it was one of the oldest law schools and they had an older tradition, I dunno.

Almost zero law school professors were called Doctor. The one I recall had a medical degree.

I was not speaking to Jill Biden. I am just speaking to the claim that all degrees which say Doctorate are the same for whether you call them Doctor.  They're not all the same treatment.

That is all interesting information; thank you. I didn't think you were commenting on Jill Biden. I have not previously heard of dissertation equivalents in law degrees. I am a little surprised that law school faculty don't generally go by Doctor; do they use Professor?

I have more relatives with doctoral degrees other than JD (which I understood to be the same as Doctorate of Jurisprudence; my undergrad degree was AB rather than BA, but is the same thing) but it would be interesting to ask the one who got a law degree after a PhD about his experience.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 26, 2020, 02:37:20 AM
Jill Biden never claimed to be an M.D., though? But, since you're so up in arms about phony credentials, Sebastian Gorka is that way.
Gorka is another example.

Make fun of him while you're making fun of the 46th First Doctor.

That would be an odd Doctor Who episode, if it doesn't already exist. I always thought the Master was a villain because of resentment that he never got past ABD.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 26, 2020, 02:44:24 AM
Merry Christmas, everyone. I hope those who celebrate it were able to enjoy the day in some way.

A free and fair election does not do things like this:

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Famericanlookout.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F11%2FDetroit-Polling-Windows-1200x630.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)

so therefore you need to prove it was free and fair.

You are a month and a half late with this. 200+ observers from each party were present. Trump supporters tried the Brooks Brothers riot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot) trick, but election officials are apparently now wise to that. The windows were covered because people outside were videotaping the counting, when absentee ballots with voter information on the envelopes were opened and the ballots showing how the voter voted were removed. You should respect the secret ballot.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/05/media/detroit-windows-covered-ballots-vote-center/index.html

Exactly. A free and fair election must include some level of privacy. There should be a limited number of certified witnesses, but giving open access to the public to all the voting process is potentially bringing about mob rule and intimidation. Indeed, this year a number of election officials have been subject to death threats. The White House has condemned such threats, like the Atlanta area worker who has been forced into hiding over death threats after video was released of him throwing away a page of instructions, and was accused of throwing away a ballot.

https://nypost.com/2020/11/07/falsely-accused-election-worker-forced-to-go-into-hiding/

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/528402-white-house-condemns-threats-against-election-workers

This sort of doxxing and threats are Twitter Mob Justice. While I will grant that U.S. courts may get things wrong, I think the track record of Twitter Mobs is far far worse -- and I think abandoning the courts to instead judge guilt and innocence by Twitter Mob is just making things more unjust.

In general, I think a whole lot of the election-rigging argument is relying on the "we have so *many* allegations" rather than on the strength of any of them. This is exactly the Twitter Mob mentality. As different claims are proven wrong, those claims are just abandoned and instead they jump to other claims. Like the Keshavarz-Nia allegation that included a cited statistics from non-existent "Edison County MI" that doesn't exist. The Michigan lawsuit testimony from Russell Ramsland includes data from a number of non-existent Michigan counties. I've checked the court documents on this.

None of the specific allegations I've reviewed have corroboration. Different people making different allegations of fraud don't add up to a stronger case -- they're still two weak cases.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 26, 2020, 02:58:28 AM
Honestly, I think the whole "Jill Biden is not a Doctor!" is just as ridiculous as claiming Sebastian Gorka is not a Doctor. Yes, they are both doctors, both have PH.D's. Yes, neither one is a *medical doctor*--their respective credentials are in other fields--and this I think may be one of the reasons medical doctors have "Dr. John Smith, M.D." after their names. After reading some of these articles about medical commissions, newspaper editing standards in Canada, whatever, claiming to not call PH.D's "Doctor" and hospitals making particular distinctions about staff--*shrugs* I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, though at my university, students, administrators, and faculty alike routinely made references to "Yes, this Philosophy class is taught by Dr. Robert Smith" ...
So much of this just seems petty to me. People that have PH.D's have attended school for 8 years or more, and have earned respect for their work. They are no less educated than a medical doctor, though have focused their academic efforts and expertise on a different field other than medicine. I think that both Dr. Jill Biden and Dr. Sebastian Gorka would likely agree with me.

Thanks, SHARK. I think like many things in English, the usage of the "Dr." honorific is inconsistent in practice. Some people with doctoral degrees use it, some don't. It's just one of those things. I can see someone arguing that we should move more towards consistency -- but that shouldn't be by attacking people like Dr. Biden or Dr. Gorka. They're justified in using it, because there are a lot of people who do use it that way.

I agree it's a petty thing to argue over, rather than the substance of political positions.

(For disclosure: I have a PhD in physics. I rarely use the title, but if I do use it, I would get annoyed at someone who called me out for doing so, since it is correct.)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 26, 2020, 03:00:26 AM
Greetings!

So, the claims of many witnesses testifying under Affidavit--that they saw fraud, that GOP observers were sent home, obstructed from proper participation and supervision, with many also being kept 20, 30, 60 feet or more away--so they couldn't check for a fucking thing--all of that is just bullshit, right?

All of these people's testimonies, all of the videos showing fraud and "irregularities" that's all just conspiracy theory bullshit, right?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 26, 2020, 03:58:49 AM
So, the claims of many witnesses testifying under Affidavit--that they saw fraud, that GOP observers were sent home, obstructed from proper participation and supervision, with many also being kept 20, 30, 60 feet or more away--so they couldn't check for a fucking thing--all of that is just bullshit, right?

All of these people's testimonies, all of the videos showing fraud and "irregularities" that's all just conspiracy theory bullshit, right?

I can't speak for all the evidence, because I haven't had a chance to review all of it. But in every case that I've reviewed, the evidence came down to an uncorroborated he-said-she-said at best. For example, the video of State Farm Arena in Georgia video was narrated over with claims that it was showing fraud -- but at this point, I believe that narration to be bullshit. The boxes under the table were not surreptitious suitcases, but rather official ballot bins, that were placed there in full view of the media and observers. Official investigators reviewed the tapes for the entire day, and found no evidence of fraud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-9jFuieH_U
https://www.newsmax.com/politics/georgia-mystery-ballots-investigation-poll-watchers/2020/12/07/id/1000385/

The video narration claims that the Republican observers were lured away with a story about a water leak -- but there has been no affidavits from those observers to back this up. One can claim that both the poll workers and the Republican investigators are conspiring -- but after the official investigation, Trump's legal team has not had any substantial response. If they had it, they could have submitted affidavits of the observers who were ostensibly turned away or other witnesses to dispute the investigators -- but instead there has been nothing.

With no witness corroboration of the video narration claims, this is bullshit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 26, 2020, 04:18:04 AM
Honestly, I think the whole "Jill Biden is not a Doctor!" is just as ridiculous as claiming Sebastian Gorka is not a Doctor. Yes, they are both doctors, both have PH.D's. Yes, neither one is a *medical doctor*--their respective credentials are in other fields--and this I think may be one of the reasons medical doctors have "Dr. John Smith, M.D." after their names. After reading some of these articles about medical commissions, newspaper editing standards in Canada, whatever, claiming to not call PH.D's "Doctor" and hospitals making particular distinctions about staff--*shrugs* I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, though at my university, students, administrators, and faculty alike routinely made references to "Yes, this Philosophy class is taught by Dr. Robert Smith" ...
So much of this just seems petty to me. People that have PH.D's have attended school for 8 years or more, and have earned respect for their work. They are no less educated than a medical doctor, though have focused their academic efforts and expertise on a different field other than medicine. I think that both Dr. Jill Biden and Dr. Sebastian Gorka would likely agree with me.

Thanks, SHARK. I think like many things in English, the usage of the "Dr." honorific is inconsistent in practice. Some people with doctoral degrees use it, some don't. It's just one of those things. I can see someone arguing that we should move more towards consistency -- but that shouldn't be by attacking people like Dr. Biden or Dr. Gorka. They're justified in using it, because there are a lot of people who do use it that way.

I agree it's a petty thing to argue over, rather than the substance of political positions.

(For disclosure: I have a PhD in physics. I rarely use the title, but if I do use it, I would get annoyed at someone who called me out for doing so, since it is correct.)

Greetings!

You're welcome, Jhkim. I believe it is important to be consistent, as well as fair. I also think that holding onto a proper and healthy respect for a meritocracy, and for, well, our education system and structure is important and worthwhile. Now, having said that, I am fully aware that there are some people that have PH.D's that are mind-boggling morons. And yes, while our educational standards and processes have definitely weakened and eroded over the years, that doesn't mean that we should abandon our traditional hmmm...in the Marine Corps we had a term that I think applies well--our traditional customs and courtesies. I had some professors in college that I disagreed with--and a few I thought were fucking jello-brained, Marxist morons. That is from their political philosophy and ideology, though. From a professional, academic standpoint, even most of the professors that I thought were ideological idiots, or just mushy-minded, soft, and weak--when it comes to their particular academic discipline, whether it was History, or English, or Philosophy, or Political Science, they knew their stuff. I think anyone that actually genuinely does the academic work, and earns various degrees, whether Bachelor's, Masters, or Doctorates--or JD's for the lawyers here--have worked hard and accomplished something worthwhile and meaningful.

I had an English professor--she had a PH.D in English Literature, and I think her Masters was in Education or something obscure like that--she was Liberal. She was mushy-minded, and I thought she clearly had a logical disconnect in how she interpreted information, history, and political stuff. I LOATHED her views on politics, economics, or collectivism--but she was otherwise a sweetheart. She loved cooking, and food. She loved reading, writing, and literature, she loved learning, and she loved teaching and helping *YOU* learn, grow, and succeed. She introduced me to more skills in writing, reading interpretation, poetry, structure, characterization, all the good literature stuff. Honestly, and perhaps many here would think paradoxically--she was one of my most favourite professors and instructors. She was always positive, cheerful and encouraging. She always made time to go over your work, analyze your writing or whatever books we were reading, repeat herself however much you needed to "Get it", and she was always just such a joy to have lunch with, hang out together, and learn. She was fun, kind, helpful, and even inspiring. She was Indian, from New Delhi, India, as I recall, and had that characteristic accent that Indians have. She was often regaling us with stories of her childhood, and cooking food with her grandmother. She would have us begin every class with little periods of breathing and meditation. *Laughing*. She often dressed in a brightly coloured Sari, and was always smiling and laughing. She is a sweet and wonderful person, and an excellent professor.

I should also note, however, despite her being very Liberal, mushy-minded, and collectivistic--as well as idealistic and I would say naïve about many aspects of human nature and political reality--her constant belief in goodness, in being generous and kind, her insistence on being positive and relentlessly joyful and thankful--was inspiring and contagious. She was always so engaging and eager to discuss anything with her students. And yet, as I mentioned of her nature, unlike so many of the Liberals nowadays--this sweet woman would never insult you, or even deride your views, she would simply acknowledge that you held a "right wing perspective". She would disagree with you, she would debate and discuss all kinds of issues and problems--while also remaining humble herself. She was never arrogant or condescending. She would champion her own Liberal views not with some absurd sense of smug certainty that she was absolutely correct--or that you were wrong and a hateful, warmongering beast, all the while entertaining flaws in both Left-wing ideas or policies. She always centered her philosophy though on this dogged conviction that we should always be good, embrace excellence, integrity, and virtues, and implement policies that demonstrated trust and love and faith in people. Arrrggg. *Laughing* As I mentioned, she was quite idealistic, but her unwavering joy and constant sweet nature made her a difficult person to debate with. It was like, she always made you feel like you *wanted* to agree with her, and that you *should* agree with her. Ever know someone like that? She and I would be talking about Feminism for God's sake, maybe with some other students, and some new girl or a fellow professor would come over and join in, and she would introduce me to them, chirping that "This is Mr. SHARK, such a wonderful man and a brilliant student. He's very traditional in his views of relationships between men and women, though!--as she smiled and held my shoulder. I mean, damn, that was the worst way she would describe you, or anyone or whatever that held a different viewpoint than herself about Feminism or whatever it was we were discussing. She somehow acknowledged that while you and she may disagree on some issue, or the best ways to approach problem "X"--YOU were always assumed to be intelligent, gracious, dignified, and someone she deeply respected. How could you not want to hang out with a woman like her?

I think, well, ok, she isn't a medical doctor, and she doesn't have a degree in some uber science, but she does have a PH.D. The woman deserves respect. Maybe I'm conflating my knowledge of her personally and the personal relationship I enjoyed with her, with her degree, I admit that's possible. Maybe I'm just bristling at some of the uber hard-science snobbery that many people like to make at the Humanities expense--and yes, I KNOW their are morons with degrees in "Gender Studies" and basket weaving, and are absolutely fucking morons. I've seen plenty of that, too, you can be certain. However, I have had the honor and pleasure and good fortune to know many people that have degrees in Humanities--History, English, Philosophy, Political Science, for example, that are not only very well educated and knowledgeable, but also outstanding and wonderful people.

I don't know Dr. Jill Biden, and I hate her politics. But the whole lets jump up and down about her degree, or where she got it, arrgghh. Petty is right. It makes me feel dirty and small-minded. I feel the same way about slugs that try to do the same hit-job on Dr. Sebastian Gorka. That's a game we can all play, endlessly deriding and critiquing where person X got their degree, or what they got their degree in, and the end result being the only people you end up having respect for are people that happen to agree with you politically--and what their degree is in, or what school they got it from, is ultimately irrelevant. I just think going down that road just opens up yet another aspect or component of our lives that we just *must* politicize and bring into the gladiator's arena. I think it is a form of character assassination, though, calling back to that philosophy logic thing where you poison the well or what have you, as I recall. I don't think it is a helpful approach, and it feels unfairly demeaning and mean-spirited.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 26, 2020, 12:01:03 PM
Greetings!

So, the claims of many witnesses testifying under Affidavit--that they saw fraud, that GOP observers were sent home, obstructed from proper participation and supervision, with many also being kept 20, 30, 60 feet or more away--so they couldn't check for a fucking thing--all of that is just bullshit, right?

All of these people's testimonies, all of the videos showing fraud and "irregularities" that's all just conspiracy theory bullshit, right?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Until someone proves something, yes. Shared delusion or dishonesty is still delusion or dishonesty. You can find a sizeable number of people who will swear under any penalty you like that vaccines cause autism. That doesn't make it so.

Finding people to make claims is the easy part. Finding people who can back their claims up with actual proof is turning out to be much harder for Trumptards.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spike on December 26, 2020, 02:24:15 PM
First of all, its patently absurd to pay 2700 dollars to receive 600 dollars, no matter how you parse it.

Depending on when you have to repay it, that would make perfect sense; many people borrow money to buy a house or car now, and repay a greater amount over time. For federal debt, it often never gets paid off; it simply diminishes in significance as the economy grows. The US owed more than its GDP at the end of World War II and never really paid off most of it; the economy grew so that the present day value of that debt, less the $3 trillion, is not really a significant part of the national debt.



See... A lot of think that is BAD. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on December 26, 2020, 04:43:35 PM
Its not proving a stolen election.  It is about proving that the election was legitimate.

You are confused; the burden of proof is still with those claiming it is not legitimate.

Will Pence Save America?
https://twitter.com/TheRightMelissa/status/1341579724687073280
As President of the Senate, @Mike_Pence has sole power to tell the states he will not accept their electors b/c they vioated the Constittion. At this point the legislatures will either have to select new electors or stand down This will put Dems on defense from now till Jan 6th. He cannot LEGALLY accept fraudelent electors Dec 23rd is his highest call of duty is to defend the Constitution from the States failure to follow it. These States are in breach of contract of the Constitution by allowing Governors to circumvent State legislatures.

This is in error; Pence does not decide if votes are fraudulent. The House and Senate decide if the electoral votes of any state objected to count or not, provided at least one Representative and one Senator sign onto the objection. The default is to accept the slate of electors for each state that met the safe harbor deadline. The House will not agree with any objection to Biden electors unless some actual evidence is produced, which has so far been a complete failure, and that dooms any objection (which probably won't get enough support in the Senate either, as enough Republicans have already dismissed the idea).

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11641

On top of that, Pelosi would be well within her rights to refuse to seat members who claim the elections were fraudulent since they were elected in the same elections. If they want to confess to usurping office, the House majority should take them at their word and exclude them.

You dont accept an unverified election because elections are not inherently innocent until proven guilty.

You need to prove that it was both a free and fair election.

It was verified when the electors picked Biden.

Nope nope nope. Line crossed. You do not get to use the history of my families pain and death in your stupid political ranting bullshit. I mean you have the free speech right but you don't have the right to be consequence free from that fucking bullshit antic.

No, there are no concentration camps. No, nothing going on in America is comparable to Auschwitz, and nothing anyone wants to "create" is either. Yes, you're a complete fucking creepy asshole for claiming there is or plans to be. No, there is no defense other than 'I am sorry you're right I went to far on that one' for that comment.

In his case, the accusations of Nazi-ism are just projection: accusing others of one's own proclivities. Keep that in mind next time Baby Shark calls somebody a "cocksucker".

If they're going to give money away to favored corporate interests and NGOs, might as well give some to normal people.

Romney's GOP has no ground to stand on here.  They love to give away money to everyone except joe lunchpail.

What's truly funny (or scary, depending on how you look at it) is that if Trump had come out for the $2000 payments before the election, he most likely would have won.



If he had got it passed before the election, I think it would have been a landslide like Obama in 2008. This probably would have meant throwing his Senate majority under the bus, but with the White House on the line it's a small price to pay.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 26, 2020, 05:11:15 PM
If they're going to give money away to favored corporate interests and NGOs, might as well give some to normal people.

Romney's GOP has no ground to stand on here.  They love to give away money to everyone except joe lunchpail.

What's truly funny (or scary, depending on how you look at it) is that if Trump had come out for the $2000 payments before the election, he most likely would have won.



If he had got it passed before the election, I think it would have been a landslide like Obama in 2008. This probably would have meant throwing his Senate majority under the bus, but with the White House on the line it's a small price to pay.

Here's another one from Jimmy Dore on how blocking a higher stimulus BEFORE the election was part of Nancy Pelosi's campaign strategy to get Biden elected by making Trump look bad...cuz Trump ALWAYS wanted to get people more money. It was HER standing in the way.

This ENTIRE bill was Nancy Pelosi's fault, and part of her strategy to get a racist, senile old corporatist war criminal and his "Top Cop" prisoner exploiting VP into the White House.

But keep trying to rewrite history to fit your position.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 26, 2020, 06:52:30 PM
Here's some Millie for those in the snow:
(aka RainbowSnatch lol )

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/12M-dkEFlvTq1ckTugemuZ4xgRyFIcC57iKHvRAGHbpU/edit#slide=id.gb15f869f7e_4558_39

Drink the Biden Coolaid and TASTE THE DESPAIR!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 27, 2020, 12:34:25 PM
First of all, its patently absurd to pay 2700 dollars to receive 600 dollars, no matter how you parse it.

Depending on when you have to repay it, that would make perfect sense; many people borrow money to buy a house or car now, and repay a greater amount over time. For federal debt, it often never gets paid off; it simply diminishes in significance as the economy grows. The US owed more than its GDP at the end of World War II and never really paid off most of it; the economy grew so that the present day value of that debt, less the $3 trillion, is not really a significant part of the national debt.



See... A lot of think that is BAD.

People think that car loans, home mortgages and economic growth are bad? LOL.

The swing by Republicans to being deficit hawks is well under way, since they have no expectation of tax cuts for the rich during a Democratic administration. They'll be back to their supply side trickle down fantasies if they get a Republican back in the White House. As it has always been since Ronald Reagan.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 27, 2020, 01:45:24 PM

People think that car loans, home mortgages and economic growth are bad? LOL.

The swing by Republicans to being deficit hawks is well under way, since they have no expectation of tax cuts for the rich during a Democratic administration. They'll be back to their supply side trickle down fantasies if they get a Republican back in the White House. As it has always been since Ronald Reagan.

Considering people getting home loans they were unable to pay off is what caused the market crash leading to the great recession, I would say the answer is

...borrowing money that you are incapable of paying back is bad.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 27, 2020, 02:15:20 PM

People think that car loans, home mortgages and economic growth are bad? LOL.

The swing by Republicans to being deficit hawks is well under way, since they have no expectation of tax cuts for the rich during a Democratic administration. They'll be back to their supply side trickle down fantasies if they get a Republican back in the White House. As it has always been since Ronald Reagan.

Considering people getting home loans they were unable to pay off is what caused the market crash leading to the great recession, I would say the answer is

...borrowing money that you are incapable of paying back is bad.

The United States is not incapable of paying off its debts. Indeed, the current interest rates it pays are below the rate of inflation. The countercyclical spending of the federal government is what keeps a Great Recession from becoming a second Great Depression.

I would say the problem in 2008 was lenders misleading borrowers to give bad loans and passing off those bad subprime loans to unsuspecting investors. But home mortgages are not themselves bad.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 27, 2020, 09:00:26 PM
TRUMP ~ Man Overboard?
======================
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1341799698508754944
Trump’s own team is feeding fake leaks, about a White House locked in absolute chaos, to the media. Fake leakers working for BOTH SIDES have been extremely busy this week. They’re going to get busier the closer we get to the key dates of Jan 5/6.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/attorney-sidney-attorney-sidney-powell-releases-270-page-document-on-massive-2020-election-fraud-involving-foreign-interference-releases-270-page-document-massive-2020-election-fraud-involving-foreign/
Attorney Sidney Powell released an explosive document on foreign interference to Zenger News this week! The document includes 270 pages of affidavits, evidence and testimony from numerous witnesses and sources. The 270 page document details election fraud, names and all! The document includes military and alphabet testimony, and details everything from interference, to origins of voting machine fraud, to cybersecurity intrusions into U.S. elections systems and more.

REGARDLESS OF THE UNINFORMED OPINIONS IN THIS THREAD, I SUGGEST TO READ:
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." -Josef Stalin
Lesson learned!
https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1343193422996393987
https://twitter.com/Raiklin/status/1342821000375898113
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/12/its_for_mike_pence_to_judge_whether_a_presidential_election_was_held_at_all.html

On January 6, a joint session of Congress will open with Vice President Pence presiding as president of the Senate.  His power will be plenary and unappealable.  You heard that right.  As president of the Senate, every objection comes directly to him, and he can rule any objection “out of order” or “denied.”  His task will be to fulfill his oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and to ensure that the laws be faithfully executed.  This is a high standard of performance, and V.P. Pence will have two choices.  He can roll over on “certified” electors, or he can uphold the law. Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution gives state legislatures “plenary authority” as enunciated in Bush v. Gore.  This is key, since the counting of votes is discussed in Article II, the 12th Amendment, and 3 USC 15.

in 1800, even with constitutional deficiencies in Georgia, Thomas Jefferson blithely counted defective electoral votes from Georgia, effectively voting himself into the presidency.  This demonstrates that the president of the Senate is the final authority on any motions or objections during the vote-counting.  There is no appeal.  That doesn’t mean there won’t be any outrage.  Whatever Pence does, people will be angry.  But what does the law demand? Seven contested states clearly violated their own laws.

An election is a process of counting votes for candidates. Only valid, lawful votes may be counted.  A valid lawful vote is:
Cast by an eligible, properly registered elector as prescribed by laws enacted by the state Legislature.
Cast in a timely manner, as prescribed by laws enacted by the state Legislature.
Cast in a proper form as prescribed by laws enacted by the state Legislature.

Any process that does not follow these rules is not an election.  Anything that proceeds from it cannot be regarded as having any lawful import.
Most commentators suggest that a process of collecting pieces of paper with marks on them is an election regardless of errors, omissions, and even deliberate malfeasance.  This is a mistake.  Imagine a golf tournament where every bad shot by one player gets a do-over, but the competing player has to follow USGA rules in detail.  One player gets to drop freely out of hazards, but the other has to tackle every embedded ball as it lies.  The result is a travesty. The same thing applies to elections.  If there are a handful of improper votes, we can suggest that there was in fact an election, perhaps tainted, but the election wasn’t materially harmed.  But when the people charged with managing the election decide to ignore the law, whatever process they supervise is not the process defined by the law.  Therefore, it is not an election.

Consider how things might go down as the two closed envelopes from Georgia are handed to the V.P.  Rather than opening them, he says:
In my hand are envelopes purporting to contain electoral votes from Georgia.  They are competing for consideration, so it is essential that I consider the law that governs this.  That law, according to the Legislature of Georgia and Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution is the Georgia statute that includes procedures for signature-matching on absentee ballots, a requirement that all absentee ballots be first requested by a legitimate voter, and that election monitors be meaningfully present at all times while votes were counted. The Georgia secretary of state, who is not empowered by the U.S. Constitution to make changes to election law, entered into a Consent Decree that gutted these protections enacted by the Georgia Legislature.  The processes that he prescribed and were ultimately followed were manifestly contrary to that law.  Further, the State of Georgia, in unprecedented concert with other states, suspended counting of ballots in the middle of the night, covering its conspiracy with a false claim of a “water main break.”  We now know from surveillance video that many thousands of “ballots” were counted unlawfully in the absence of legally required observers. Finally, the State of Georgia, under the authority of secretary of state Brad Raffensperger, a non-legislative actor, used fatally flawed Dominion voting machines that have been demonstrated to be unreliable.  In testing, the error rate of Dominion machines has exceeded 60%, far in excess of legal limits.  They are designed to facilitate fraud without creating the legally required paper trail.  This alone is far more than enough to swing an election. Since the state of Georgia has failed to follow the election law established by its legislature under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, it has not conducted a presidential election.  Therefore, no “presidential electors” were appointed in Georgia.  Further, “electors” “certified” by non-legislative actors pursuant to this process are in fact not “presidential electors.”  The competing slate of “electors” is similarly deficient, having not been elected through a presidential election. Therefore, the chair rules that Georgia has not transmitted the votes of any presidential electors to this body.  Georgia presents zero votes for Donald Trump and zero votes for Joseph Biden.

If the votes of all seven contested states are registered as zero, President Trump will have 232 votes, and Joe Biden will have 222.  The 12th Amendment says, “[T]he votes shall then be counted[.] …  The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President[.]”
In plain language, Donald Trump will be re-elected, since he has a majority of the actual electoral votes.  There will be no need to involve the House of Representatives to resolve a contingent election.

It's possible Mayor Bowser will try to shut down D.C. on the 6th:
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1343203838958817280
What will the DS do at this point? Will Joe Biden object or will they just push chaos in these states and in D.C.?
Only time will tell!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on December 27, 2020, 09:07:59 PM
The United States is not incapable of paying off its debts. Indeed, the current interest rates it pays are below the rate of inflation. The countercyclical spending of the federal government is what keeps a Great Recession from becoming a second Great Depression.

I would say the problem in 2008 was lenders misleading borrowers to give bad loans and passing off those bad subprime loans to unsuspecting investors. But home mortgages are not themselves bad.

Whut?... What manner of insanity is this?... Currently, the US is not capable of paying off its debts. Doing so would bankrupt the federal government and would create an inflationary spiral so bad, it would make the stock market crash of 1927, and the economic depression that followed look like a picnic.

In 1933 every single bank in the United States was shutdown for four days by the Emergency Banking Act of 1933. The Act, which temporarily closed banks for four days for inspection, served immediately to shore up confidence in the banks and to provide a boost to the stock market. Many of its key provisions have endured to this day, notably the insuring of bank accounts by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation and the executive powers it afforded to the president to respond to financial crises. The Act also completely changed the face of the American currency system by taking the United States off the gold standard.

This was immediately preceded by the creation of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation which was a United States government agency tasked with assisting the failing banking sector in the years after the stock market crash of 1929. In 1932, Congress approved for the RFC to begin business with strict mandates that required the agency to issue emergency loans to banks facing the threat of going under. Despite intentions to last only 10 years, the RFC stayed in business for decades before being dismantled in 1957. During its time of operation, the RFC expanded its authority, ultimately making loans to smaller businesses, railroads and even farmers. The RFC also developed eight subsidiaries designed to aid wartime efforts during World War II.

This was followed by the Federal Home Loan Bank Act of 1932. during the Hoover administration in 1932. It was designed to encourage home ownership by providing a source of low-cost funds for member banks to use in extending mortgage loans. The Federal Home Loan Bank Act was the first in a series of bills that sought to make home ownership an achievable goal for more Americans.

The Federal Home Loan Bank Act was signed by President Herbert Hoover on July 22, 1932. President Hoover said, on signing the act, that it was intended “to establish a series of discount banks for home mortgages, performing a function for homeowners somewhat similar to that performed in the commercial field by the Federal Reserve Banks through their discount facilities.”


The United States was in the Great Depression at the time of the act's passage, and banks did not have money to lend to consumers for mortgages as Americans, in a panic, had made runs on banks and withdrew all their deposits. At the same time, mortgage holders who had lost jobs were defaulting on their home loans. This defaulting further reduced the money that banks had available to lend. Architects of the Federal Home Loan Bank Act intended it to inject money into the banking system and make mortgage loans available to consumers, thereby stimulating the housing market. In the subsequent year following the Federal Home Loan Bank Act President Franklin Roosevelt formed the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, created under authority of the Banking Act of 1933 (also known as the Glass-Steagall Act), insuring individual bank deposits against loss in an effort to restore faith in the banking system.

The Glass-Steagall Act was very interesting because it also placed stringent financial requirements on banks that were a part of the FDIC and separated investment banking from commercial banking in order to combat the corruption of commercial banks by speculative investing, which had been recognized as a key cause of the stock market crash. Glass-Steagall was repealed in 1999, however, and some believe its demise helped contribute to the 2008 global credit crisis.

Widespread Depression‐​era bank failures were primarily due to the fragility of the banking system at that time. Regulations that prohibited branch banking meant that America’s banks were frequently very small, with undiversified loan portfolios tied to the local economy of specific regions. Persistent crop failures and falling real estate values, pushed thousands of these banks over the edge. Loan‐​financed securities speculation — the target of Glass‐​Steagall —  and the cause of the stock market crashes had very little to do with it.

Likewise, during the recent financial crisis, commercial bank failures were largely driven by credit losses on real estate loans. The banks that failed generally pursued high‐​risk business strategies that combined nontraditional funding sources with aggressive subprime lending. Glass‐​Steagall would not have stopped any of this. Nor could it have stopped standalone investment banks, such as Lehman Brothers, from running into trouble.

The number of failures of FDIC‐​insured banks increased as the financial crisis went on: 25 in 2008, 140 in 2009, 157 in 2010, 92 in 2011, and 51 in 2012 — a total of 465 altogether. Between January 2008 and December 2011, 75 percent of these failures (313 out of 414) were at small institutions with less than $1 billion in assets. The Government Accountability Office’s report shows that these small bank failures were largely driven by credit losses on commercial real estate loans, especially those secured on real estate to finance land development and construction.

It is worth focusing on the two largest bank failures and examining their causes. The first was IndyMac, with assets of $32 billion in July 2008, followed by Washington Mutual, with assets of $307 billion in September 2008. In each case, the analysis provided by the Office of the Inspector General provides useful and relevant insights, showing that it was primarily ill‐​considered lending that led to these banks’ failures.

So, home mortgages, by themselves, are bad. Especially if it is tied to banks lending for commercial real estate loans, which include shopping center development, homebuilder loans, and new home loans. This, along with bad lending practices and not enough lending oversight. The real estate Industry itself is also to blame with its' inflationary selling practices, constantly upping the price on new homes to earn a greater profit margin, and this being supported by local government revenue collection which can assess more property taxes for higher priced homes, and that increased tax money is frivolously wasted by local governments with almost no accountability. This is a vicious spiral, and the banks are caught up in it.

Banks reinvesting in their communities, very important. Banks helping to build new revenue and income streams by supporting profitable merchants, manufacturers, and traders, all good. Banks lending money so that the 1% can pad their pockets with even more cash they don't even use, is a total waste of good Capital, and quite possibly the primary reason we are still headed for a global financial meltdown.

Everyone here knows Turkey has been busy fighting in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Kurdistan, Armenia, and most recently Azerbaijan, as well as generally pissing on Greece and France. What people don't know is that Turkey is in dire financial straights with an economy that is teetering on the brink of collapse. Just to give you some indication of how everything there is going inflation in Turkey for 2020 is currently pegged at 49.6% annually, with no new business prospects except for a shrinking economy. Funding the military and the military expanding Turkish borders and influence to literally seize new property and businesses, including oil and agricultural rich areas of Syria, Iraq, Azerbaijan, and Libya are providing emergency funds to stabilize the Ottoman nation. Behind all that Fascist rhetoric and indirect support for ISIS, is a government that has seen its' Lira devalued more than 75% against the Dollar and Western currencies during the last five years.

More on this here:
https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/turmoil-turkey?queryID=bea4aa61ceccdeec2fb972852df4b068       
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 27, 2020, 09:22:27 PM

People think that car loans, home mortgages and economic growth are bad? LOL.

The swing by Republicans to being deficit hawks is well under way, since they have no expectation of tax cuts for the rich during a Democratic administration. They'll be back to their supply side trickle down fantasies if they get a Republican back in the White House. As it has always been since Ronald Reagan.

Considering people getting home loans they were unable to pay off is what caused the market crash leading to the great recession, I would say the answer is

...borrowing money that you are incapable of paying back is bad.

The United States is not incapable of paying off its debts. Indeed, the current interest rates it pays are below the rate of inflation. The countercyclical spending of the federal government is what keeps a Great Recession from becoming a second Great Depression.

I would say the problem in 2008 was lenders misleading borrowers to give bad loans and passing off those bad subprime loans to unsuspecting investors. But home mortgages are not themselves bad.
The federal debt is north of $25 trillion, and that doesn't include future commitments. The fiscal gap, which includes those commitments calculated over an infinite time horizon, was over $200 trillion the last time the CBO reported it.

There's no feasible way to pay that off any time in the near future. The only real option is to cut the government spending in half and keep it that level, keep taxes at current levels, and hope growth continues for about 50 to 100 years. At that point, it might be doable.

Last year the US paid $574 billion on interest payments, and that's with interest rates close to zero for the last decade. If interest rates every rose to natural levels, the US would default on its debt. That's why the Fed will never allow interest rates to rise.

The other option is to just print money. That would cause hyperinflation. This would be bad. (That's an understatement.)

The government is very poor at countercyclical spending. They spend heavily in economic downturns, and keep spending heavily in economic upturns. Even by Keynesian standards, the government has been doing a bad job.

The other explanation is it's entirely the fault of the government. By printing money to keep interest rates low, or to inject liquidity during economic downturns, they're keeping companies in business when they should be failing, and creating a false optimism that leads to a surge in investments without any corresponding increase in demand. This excess capacity and deadwood eventually has to be cleared out, leading to another economic downturn. The cyclical boom-bust cycle is caused by government intervention.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on December 28, 2020, 04:26:31 AM
Oh look, Trump just invoked a rarely used law to redline the CoronaChan pork bill, get everybody $2k of "free money", tear Big Tech a new asshole, and have Congress hold hearings on the election fraud.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-from-the-president-122720/ (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-from-the-president-122720/)

On Monday the House will vote to increase payments to individuals from $600 to $2,000. Therefore, a family of four would receive $5,200. Additionally, Congress has promised that Section 230, which so unfairly benefits Big Tech at the expense of the American people, will be reviewed and either be terminated or substantially reformed.

Likewise, the House and Senate have agreed to focus strongly on the very substantial voter fraud which took place in the November 3 Presidential election.

The Senate will start the process for a vote that increases checks to $2,000, repeals Section 230, and starts an investigation into voter fraud.


Trump has also invited everybody to come to DC on January 6th. He's tweeted repeatedly "be there, will be wild" and it sounds like things are about to become even more interesting.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on December 28, 2020, 04:35:18 AM
There's no feasible way to pay that off any time in the near future. The only real option is to cut the government spending in half and keep it that level, keep taxes at current levels, and hope growth continues for about 50 to 100 years. At that point, it might be doable.

Pat, your masterful use of sarcasm is a thing to behold.

Once the national debt became $10T, it might as well have become $infinity for the chances of it ever being paid off. In a few years, we'll be assigning the debt negative interest or discover some newfangled economic theory in which sage economics nod to each other proclaiming that we MUST continue wildly spending in order to solve the debt itself.

Or we'll just drag one of those asteroids with 50 tons of diamonds inside back to Earth and start handing out chunks as repayment.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on December 28, 2020, 05:07:00 AM
I’m glad the $600 bonus is coming my way.  We can all bet our sweet asses we’re not getting the $2000+. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 28, 2020, 08:32:16 AM
I’m glad the $600 bonus is coming my way.  We can all bet our sweet asses we’re not getting the $2000+.

You were never gonna get $2k originally anyway, and they got rid of the pork, which was an even bigger issue, and replaced it with better stuff that's actually necessary, such as looking into Section 230. Also an investigation into voter fraud. My main concern is that they might get rid of Section 230 rather than actually reform it, which would be a bad thing for the internet, since Section 230 is necessary, it just lacks a provision to remove Section 230 protections from companies that act as a publisher.

You can thank Naci Pelosi for this whole mess, as covered in the video I posted in my prior post.  :P
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on December 28, 2020, 12:45:16 PM
The federal debt is north of $25 trillion, and that doesn't include future commitments. The fiscal gap, which includes those commitments calculated over an infinite time horizon, was over $200 trillion the last time the CBO reported it.

Oh NOES! If you add up all your future electric bills til the end of time as one lump sum and ignore the fact that you will (I hope) draw a few paychecks between now and the end of the world, it looks like an insurmountable bill to keep the lights on. Oh wait...

Quote
There's no feasible way to pay that off any time in the near future. The only real option is to cut the government spending in half and keep it that level, keep taxes at current levels, and hope growth continues for about 50 to 100 years. At that point, it might be doable.

You can take a large chunk out of it by assessing a $5/5% (whichever is higher) fee on every stock, commodity or bond transaction. In 2008 there were over 400 billion stock transactions in the USA. At $5 a pop, that's over $2 trillion from stock trades alone. If they use half of that every year and avoid wars for the next 20 years, it could be paid off entirely -or at least reduced enough so that interest on the debt would only cost a small fraction of what it does now.

So no, Chicken Little, the sky isn't falling.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on December 28, 2020, 12:56:37 PM
I’m glad the $600 bonus is coming my way.  We can all bet our sweet asses we’re not getting the $2000+.

You were never gonna get $2k originally anyway,

It took Bernie and Hawley's desperate threats just to get $600. Even though the $2000 is very popular, Pelosi threw up the bullshit arbitrary condition that it would have to pass by unanimous request, knowing full well that at least one Teabagger in Congress would object and scuttle it. For the life of me I don't get why people think of Pelosi as some sort of Lefty. It's obvious that her idol is Judge Smails from Caddyshack because her motto to the base of the Democratic Party has always been "YOU'LL GET NOTHING AND LIKE IT!"


Quote
and they got rid of the pork, which was an even bigger issue, and replaced it with better stuff that's actually necessary, such as looking into Section 230. Also an investigation into voter fraud. My main concern is that they might get rid of Section 230 rather than actually reform it, which would be a bad thing for the internet, since Section 230 is necessary, it just lacks a provision to remove Section 230 protections from companies that act as a publisher.

So you think it's good that the small chance of getting $2000 to everyone was scrapped so another investigation can turn up the same results that Trump's hand-picked panel found last time? You're a chump.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 28, 2020, 01:18:18 PM
I’m glad the $600 bonus is coming my way.  We can all bet our sweet asses we’re not getting the $2000+.

You were never gonna get $2k originally anyway, and they got rid of the pork, which was an even bigger issue, and replaced it with better stuff that's actually necessary, such as looking into Section 230. Also an investigation into voter fraud. My main concern is that they might get rid of Section 230 rather than actually reform it, which would be a bad thing for the internet, since Section 230 is necessary, it just lacks a provision to remove Section 230 protections from companies that act as a publisher.

You can thank Naci Pelosi for this whole mess, as covered in the video I posted in my prior post.  :P
I'm not hugely keen on the attention 230 is getting, as my worry is that it'll be used to suppress online speech if it's altered or deleted. I understand Trump's frustration -- Big Tech has happily gotten in bed with the Democrats and did the thing with their forked tongue to help them -- but I'm not sure this is the way to fix it.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Joey2k on December 28, 2020, 01:24:41 PM

You can take a large chunk out of it by assessing a $5/5% (whichever is higher) fee on every stock, commodity or bond transaction. In 2008 there were over 400 billion stock transactions in the USA. At $5 a pop, that's over $2 trillion from stock trades alone. If they use half of that every year and avoid wars for the next 20 years, it could be paid off entirely -or at least reduced enough so that interest on the debt would only cost a small fraction of what it does now.

So no, Chicken Little, the sky isn't falling.

Great idea. Let's implement a policy that will have a chilling effect on investment and eat into people's retirement.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 28, 2020, 02:17:06 PM

You can take a large chunk out of it by assessing a $5/5% (whichever is higher) fee on every stock, commodity or bond transaction. In 2008 there were over 400 billion stock transactions in the USA. At $5 a pop, that's over $2 trillion from stock trades alone. If they use half of that every year and avoid wars for the next 20 years, it could be paid off entirely -or at least reduced enough so that interest on the debt would only cost a small fraction of what it does now.

So no, Chicken Little, the sky isn't falling.

Great idea. Let's implement a policy that will have a chilling effect on investment and eat into people's retirement.

"Eat the rich!"

"Oh shit, what happened to the economy?"
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on December 28, 2020, 02:27:42 PM

You can take a large chunk out of it by assessing a $5/5% (whichever is higher) fee on every stock, commodity or bond transaction. In 2008 there were over 400 billion stock transactions in the USA. At $5 a pop, that's over $2 trillion from stock trades alone. If they use half of that every year and avoid wars for the next 20 years, it could be paid off entirely -or at least reduced enough so that interest on the debt would only cost a small fraction of what it does now.

So no, Chicken Little, the sky isn't falling.

Great idea. Let's implement a policy that will have a chilling effect on investment and eat into people's retirement.

Drama queen much? Five percent would be less than the sales taxes paid in 38 of the 50 states by everyone who buys other goods and services. Feel free to show the "chilling effect" sales taxes have had on retail sales. Oh, and if you're really concerned about retirement, you'd back a bill that sets up something like the FDIC, only for pensions since pension theft is a real threat to retirement.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 28, 2020, 02:55:20 PM
The federal debt is north of $25 trillion, and that doesn't include future commitments. The fiscal gap, which includes those commitments calculated over an infinite time horizon, was over $200 trillion the last time the CBO reported it.

There's no feasible way to pay that off any time in the near future. The only real option is to cut the government spending in half and keep it that level, keep taxes at current levels, and hope growth continues for about 50 to 100 years. At that point, it might be doable.

What pisses me off about Republicans is that they frequently claim this as a principle, but they only *increase* spending and *increase* the deficit - even during economic upturns. Spending and deficit increase more under Republican administrations. The common strategy of Reagan, Bush Sr, Bush Jr, and Trump is that supposedly by cutting taxes, then growth will pay for their increased spending -- but that never actually materializes. Instead, the deficit and debt just keep getting larger under Republican control.

(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5f3aae8bcb484ca497e0ae95/960x0.jpg)
Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2020/08/14/national-debt-to-surpass-78-trillion-by-2028-what-it-means-for-americans/

But somehow, Republicans continue to claim that Democrats are the problem spenders. This isn't to say that Democrats are much better - it is a bipartisan problem, but the Republican rhetoric is that somehow they're better for the economy -- when their track record is worse.

In general, it seems to me our debt-to-GDP ratio is roughly in the same range as many other first-world countries. We're #10 in the world, and #4 in the G20. So it's high, but we have less than Japan, Italy, and Singapore - and roughly on par with France. (ref) (https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp) And we have tons of assets, so it's not like we couldn't pay in an emergency. Our borrowing seems more like getting a HELOC on a house than credit card debt - especially given the low interest rate the government pays.

I agree it should be paid down, the question is how. I don't have an exact recipe -- but I don't agree with repeating the same strategies used over and over by Republicans that got us into this state.


The government is very poor at countercyclical spending. They spend heavily in economic downturns, and keep spending heavily in economic upturns. Even by Keynesian standards, the government has been doing a bad job.

The other explanation is it's entirely the fault of the government. By printing money to keep interest rates low, or to inject liquidity during economic downturns, they're keeping companies in business when they should be failing, and creating a false optimism that leads to a surge in investments without any corresponding increase in demand. This excess capacity and deadwood eventually has to be cleared out, leading to another economic downturn. The cyclical boom-bust cycle is caused by government intervention.

I agree about spending. We should spend more in stimulus and aid during economic downturns, and less in economic upturns. As for the problem of the government -- the question is, this presumes that there is a natural default government behavior that avoids boom-bust. Looking in history and across the world, countries like Switzerland, Germany, and Sweden are rated as the most economically stable. However, their policies don't correspond to libertarian ideals. They have plenty of government intervention, plus things like universal healthcare and other social programs.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 28, 2020, 04:05:43 PM
and they got rid of the pork, which was an even bigger issue, and replaced it with better stuff that's actually necessary, such as looking into Section 230. Also an investigation into voter fraud. My main concern is that they might get rid of Section 230 rather than actually reform it, which would be a bad thing for the internet, since Section 230 is necessary, it just lacks a provision to remove Section 230 protections from companies that act as a publisher.

So you think it's good that the small chance of getting $2000 to everyone was scrapped so another investigation can turn up the same results that Trump's hand-picked panel found last time? You're a chump.

The investigation is probably never going to happen, but it would be nice to actually have one, as opposed to the side that benefits from one yelling that there's fire and the one that doesn't refusing to investigate, then pretending that nothing was ever found when they didn't even look.

The federal debt is north of $25 trillion, and that doesn't include future commitments. The fiscal gap, which includes those commitments calculated over an infinite time horizon, was over $200 trillion the last time the CBO reported it.

There's no feasible way to pay that off any time in the near future. The only real option is to cut the government spending in half and keep it that level, keep taxes at current levels, and hope growth continues for about 50 to 100 years. At that point, it might be doable.

What pisses me off about Republicans is that they frequently claim this as a principle, but they only *increase* spending and *increase* the deficit - even during economic upturns. Spending and deficit increase more under Republican administrations. The common strategy of Reagan, Bush Sr, Bush Jr, and Trump is that supposedly by cutting taxes, then growth will pay for their increased spending -- but that never actually materializes. Instead, the deficit and debt just keep getting larger under Republican control.

(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5f3aae8bcb484ca497e0ae95/960x0.jpg)
Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2020/08/14/national-debt-to-surpass-78-trillion-by-2028-what-it-means-for-americans/

But somehow, Republicans continue to claim that Democrats are the problem spenders. This isn't to say that Democrats are much better - it is a bipartisan problem, but the Republican rhetoric is that somehow they're better for the economy -- when their track record is worse.

In general, it seems to me our debt-to-GDP ratio is roughly in the same range as many other first-world countries. We're #10 in the world, and #4 in the G20. So it's high, but we have less than Japan, Italy, and Singapore - and roughly on par with France. (ref) (https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp) And we have tons of assets, so it's not like we couldn't pay in an emergency. Our borrowing seems more like getting a HELOC on a house than credit card debt - especially given the low interest rate the government pays.

I agree it should be paid down, the question is how. I don't have an exact recipe -- but I don't agree with repeating the same strategies used over and over by Republicans that got us into this state.


The government is very poor at countercyclical spending. They spend heavily in economic downturns, and keep spending heavily in economic upturns. Even by Keynesian standards, the government has been doing a bad job.

The other explanation is it's entirely the fault of the government. By printing money to keep interest rates low, or to inject liquidity during economic downturns, they're keeping companies in business when they should be failing, and creating a false optimism that leads to a surge in investments without any corresponding increase in demand. This excess capacity and deadwood eventually has to be cleared out, leading to another economic downturn. The cyclical boom-bust cycle is caused by government intervention.

I agree about spending. We should spend more in stimulus and aid during economic downturns, and less in economic upturns. As for the problem of the government -- the question is, this presumes that there is a natural default government behavior that avoids boom-bust. Looking in history and across the world, countries like Switzerland, Germany, and Sweden are rated as the most economically stable. However, their policies don't correspond to libertarian ideals. They have plenty of government intervention, plus things like universal healthcare and other social programs.

Don't disagree, but Trump's debt in that graph includes the first stimulus check...AFTER the lockdowns that Democrats demanded. So it's hardly all Trump's fault. Both parties are complete garbage, though, and they've been sending us down to ruin for DECADES. The only solution at this point involves guillotines.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 28, 2020, 04:26:07 PM
The United States is not incapable of paying off its debts. Indeed, the current interest rates it pays are below the rate of inflation. The countercyclical spending of the federal government is what keeps a Great Recession from becoming a second Great Depression.

I would say the problem in 2008 was lenders misleading borrowers to give bad loans and passing off those bad subprime loans to unsuspecting investors. But home mortgages are not themselves bad.

Whut?... What manner of insanity is this?... Currently, the US is not capable of paying off its debts. Doing so would bankrupt the federal government and would create an inflationary spiral so bad, it would make the stock market crash of 1927, and the economic depression that followed look like a picnic.

The federal debt is north of $25 trillion, and that doesn't include future commitments. The fiscal gap, which includes those commitments calculated over an infinite time horizon, was over $200 trillion the last time the CBO reported it.

There's no feasible way to pay that off any time in the near future. The only real option is to cut the government spending in half and keep it that level, keep taxes at current levels, and hope growth continues for about 50 to 100 years. At that point, it might be doable.

Others have commented well on this already, but I have two cents to spare as well.

The example of World War II debt shows how debt above national GDP can be dealt with, and of course I didn't say "in the near future". Nor is there a binary choice between "extreme austerity" and "print 25 trillion dollars"; both would be terrible ideas, with continuing the current system much less harmful than either and in any case likely to continue. The best course of action is to abandon the Republican fantasy of supply-side economics and return to the equivalent of taxation levels that existed before Reagan, augmented with more modern ideas as appropriate. The Republicans have incorrectly predicted prosperity from their tax cuts and doom from any tax increases, and they have steadfastly been wrong.

But aside from the practicalities of what level of taxation are both sufficient and possible, there is the question of the interest rates the United States can currently borrow at. The argument for the kind of austerity Pat suggests is that investors will lose confidence if the government does not impose tremendous suffering in favor of paying its debt; countries that went the austerity route recovered more slowly from the Great Recession than from the Great Depression. But the United States continues to get very favorable interest rates; who would lend it money so cheaply if it were incapable of paying off its debt? The suggestion of such a massive market failure must surely require explanation with very substantial proof. Countries with debt in their own currency are always in a much better situation, because they have leverage against their creditors, even when they don't use it by printing more money; that's been a problem for some members of the European Union.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 28, 2020, 05:50:07 PM
The investigation is probably never going to happen, but it would be nice to actually have one, as opposed to the side that benefits from one yelling that there's fire and the one that doesn't refusing to investigate, then pretending that nothing was ever found when they didn't even look.

There have been a lot of investigations by official state investigators. They've done a ton of checking - like questioning poll workers and postal workers, reviewing security footage, etc. But since their investigations haven't turned up anything substantial, Trump supporters dismiss them as being part of the conspiracy. What largely hasn't happened is assigning special prosecutors or new laws to appoint different investigators.


What pisses me off about Republicans is that they frequently claim this as a principle, but they only *increase* spending and *increase* the deficit - even during economic upturns. Spending and deficit increase more under Republican administrations. The common strategy of Reagan, Bush Sr, Bush Jr, and Trump is that supposedly by cutting taxes, then growth will pay for their increased spending -- but that never actually materializes. Instead, the deficit and debt just keep getting larger under Republican control.

Don't disagree, but Trump's debt in that graph includes the first stimulus check...AFTER the lockdowns that Democrats demanded. So it's hardly all Trump's fault. Both parties are complete garbage, though, and they've been sending us down to ruin for DECADES. The only solution at this point involves guillotines.

While I technically agree that it's not purely Trump's fault, it's also true that *none* of this is purely the president's fault. The Great Recession and stimulus spending are not Obama's fault, for example. That said, Trump still was spending more and increasing the debt before covid-19. This is from October 2019, for example.

Quote
The U.S. spent nearly $1 trillion more in fiscal 2019 than it took in—the highest deficit in seven years that would have been bigger without a rebound in corporate tax revenue.

Government deficits have now increased for four years in a row, the longest stretch of U.S. deficit growth since the early 1980s, a period marked by two recessions and a jobless rate near 11%. The budget gap widened 26% in the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, to $984 billion from $779 billion deficit the previous year, the Treasury said, as rising government outlays continued to outpace tax collection.
Source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-budget-gap-widened-to-984-billion-in-fiscal-2019-11572026473

Still, I think austerity measures like halving government spending are almost certainly going to hurt the economy. We should keep spending while we are in the covid recession, but prepare to start paying it down after the economy bounces back.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 28, 2020, 09:45:29 PM
"Regardless of what people say about or to me, I WILL NEVER BE SILENCED WITH THE TRUTH IN MY HANDS! The truth will set all free from the bonds of lies. ... it is given freely to all who listen." -Anonymous
While I like to keep things light, lately I have found my self and others having a lack of maturity and vision. A thread was closed because of this. Let's keep things civil and lively!
--------------------
The Left is in Despair, their killing game is almost over:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/mathematician-bobby-piton-finds-500000-unique-last-names-pennsylvania-sophisticated-state-actor-able-optimize-desired-outcome/

Bobby Piton, the mathematician who testified at the Arizona voter fraud hearing dropped a bombshell this weekend. Piton revealed this weekend that he examined just over 9 million records in Pennsylvania and has identified 521,879 unique last names. In other words, these people have no parents, siblings, aunts, uncles or cousins who share the same last name (phantom voters). Pennsylvania has 695,430 Fewer People in the top 1000 Last Names. Bobby Piton found that there were fewer people with common surnames such as Smith, Jackson, Johnson. Bobby Piton essentially discovered where those 695,000+ illegal ballots came from in Pennsylvania. President Trump was ahead of Joe Biden by over 700,000 votes on election night in Pennsylvania and within a few days after the election, hundreds of thousands of ballots appeared for Joe Biden. Between 695,000 to 958,000 voters just got up and vanished out of Pennsylvania! Based on Piton’s findings, it appears that a centralized actor was calling the shots. Bobby Piton says a sophisticated State Actor was able to optimize a desired outcome for both the state of  Georgia and Pennsylvania.


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/evidence-foreign-influence-2020-election-nevada-secretary-state-caught-sending-voter-data-list-pakistani-firm-linked-isi/

Catherine Engelbrecht is the Founder and President of True The Vote the nation’s largest voters’ rights group. In November True the Vote wrote the Nevada Secretary of State for the eligible voter list report. When the Secretary of State responded True the Vote was shocked to see that waqas@kavtech.net was cc’ed. True the Vote later wrote the Assistant Attorney General for National Security John C. Demers about the date breach. The letter obtained exclusively by Breitbart News that when the email arrived, “I was shocked to see the inclusion of another email address in the CC line.” https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/static/source/rev-8b632d2/wp-content/uploads/engelbrecht-1-666x479.jpg
https://twitter.com/PatrickByrne/status/1343564483583766530

Whats next?
Amazingly, the Electoral College vote can be challenged under federal law and the United States Constitution. Republican electors in seven contested states cast alternate votes for Donald Trump to keep their legal options open. State legislatures retain their constitutional authority to offer alternative slates of electors. And Congress is the ultimate arbiter of the race since the ballot count can be contested during the joint session on January 6. If Brooks and one Senator object to certain state elector slates, then all bets are off. On January 6, Republicans may control the Senate and have strength in the House, just one Senator could step up and begin to change the course of history!
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/23/fitton-hope-for-a-failed-election/
https://electionwiz.com/2020/12/28/mo-brooks-dozens-in-the-house-will-sponsor-objections-to-biden-video/

Republican Texas Rep. Louie Gohmert and a group of other GOP figures filed a lawsuit Sunday against Vice President Mike Pence in an effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election. The lawsuit focuses on Pence, who will oversee the upcoming Jan. 6 meeting of Congress to count states’ electoral votes and finalize President-elect Joe Biden’s victory over President Donald Trump: https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/28/louie-gohmert-republicans-sue-mike-pence-overturn-presidential-election-biden-kelli-ward/

This could mean TREASON:
https://twitter.com/Lrihendry/status/1343550784286371841
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 29, 2020, 12:20:18 AM
The federal debt is north of $25 trillion, and that doesn't include future commitments. The fiscal gap, which includes those commitments calculated over an infinite time horizon, was over $200 trillion the last time the CBO reported it.

Oh NOES! If you add up all your future electric bills til the end of time as one lump sum and ignore the fact that you will (I hope) draw a few paychecks between now and the end of the world, it looks like an insurmountable bill to keep the lights on. Oh wait...

Quote
There's no feasible way to pay that off any time in the near future. The only real option is to cut the government spending in half and keep it that level, keep taxes at current levels, and hope growth continues for about 50 to 100 years. At that point, it might be doable.

You can take a large chunk out of it by assessing a $5/5% (whichever is higher) fee on every stock, commodity or bond transaction. In 2008 there were over 400 billion stock transactions in the USA. At $5 a pop, that's over $2 trillion from stock trades alone. If they use half of that every year and avoid wars for the next 20 years, it could be paid off entirely -or at least reduced enough so that interest on the debt would only cost a small fraction of what it does now.

So no, Chicken Little, the sky isn't falling.

If you charge a 5% fee on stock, commodity, or bond transactions there will be fewer transactions. A lot fewer. Not to mention increasing taxes by 50% and hobbling the capital sector will have many other repercussions.

You're making the usual mistake people with a rudimentary understanding of economics make: You're not considering all the implications.

I recommending reading Hazilitt's Economics in One Lesson. (https://fee.org/resources/economics-in-one-lesson/) That's the "one lesson".

That's also not what infinite horizon accounting means.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 29, 2020, 12:30:17 AM
What pisses me off about Republicans is that they frequently claim this as a principle, but they only *increase* spending and *increase* the deficit - even during economic upturns. Spending and deficit increase more under Republican administrations. The common strategy of Reagan, Bush Sr, Bush Jr, and Trump is that supposedly by cutting taxes, then growth will pay for their increased spending -- but that never actually materializes. Instead, the deficit and debt just keep getting larger under Republican control.
Both wings of the uniparty are on the catastrophically horrible side of the fiscal spectrum. Your delusion that the Democratics are better is just as risible as the contention at the Republicans are better. They both blow out the deficit.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 29, 2020, 12:35:59 AM

You can take a large chunk out of it by assessing a $5/5% (whichever is higher) fee on every stock, commodity or bond transaction. In 2008 there were over 400 billion stock transactions in the USA. At $5 a pop, that's over $2 trillion from stock trades alone. If they use half of that every year and avoid wars for the next 20 years, it could be paid off entirely -or at least reduced enough so that interest on the debt would only cost a small fraction of what it does now.

So no, Chicken Little, the sky isn't falling.

Great idea. Let's implement a policy that will have a chilling effect on investment and eat into people's retirement.

Drama queen much? Five percent would be less than the sales taxes paid in 38 of the 50 states by everyone who buys other goods and services. Feel free to show the "chilling effect" sales taxes have had on retail sales. Oh, and if you're really concerned about retirement, you'd back a bill that sets up something like the FDIC, only for pensions since pension theft is a real threat to retirement.
Yet you claimed that 5% would raise $2 trillion/year, which is roughly half the yearly revenue of the entire federal government, from all types of taxes.

You can't have it both ways. If it's an insignificant sales tax, then it won't make a dent in the debt. If it can make a dent in the debt, then it's a 50% increase in all taxes.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on December 29, 2020, 04:32:06 AM
Both wings of the uniparty are on the catastrophically horrible side of the fiscal spectrum. Your delusion that the Democratics are better is just as risible as the contention at the Republicans are better. They both blow out the deficit.

They work together to blow out the deficit, each side using the other's blow out to gin up the outrage from their-team voters.  The Dems aren't the party of lunch pail labor anymore.  Tax cuts help big donor checks that go blue.   History/analysis of political fiscal tendencies from prior to 2008 is almost entirely irrelevant today. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on December 29, 2020, 09:31:38 AM
Well, it really set in for me today that it's the end of the Trump presidency. 90% of all turnarounds are gone. I'm not holding out hope for some miracle.

Fraud or not, I don't want to go back to the time of pretend peace and unity. If you think I'm scum and want to piss on my leg-aight. But don't tell me its raining.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 29, 2020, 10:42:43 AM
Well, it really set in for me today that it's the end of the Trump presidency. 90% of all turnarounds are gone. I'm not holding out hope for some miracle.

Fraud or not, I don't want to go back to the time of pretend peace and unity. If you think I'm scum and want to piss on my leg-aight. But don't tell me its raining.
The black comedy in watching Sleepy Joe blather about 'healing' while people are demanding the persecution of everyone even tangentially aligned with the Trump administration is amazing.

Gonna be a bumpy four years. But hey, this is the future they chose. Don't blame us if it ends poorly.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on December 29, 2020, 11:07:55 AM
Gonna be a bumpy four years. But hey, this is the future they chose. Don't blame us if it ends poorly.
The utterly infuriating thing is that they will. No commie has ever admitted to just having a bad idea-just bad actors or sabotage.


Heeding the words of another commentator I heard online, il get involved more in local politics because those are things I can actually control.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 29, 2020, 11:09:25 AM
"Regardless of what people say about or to me, I WILL NEVER BE SILENCED WITH THE TRUTH IN MY HANDS! The truth will set all free from the bonds of lies. ... it is given freely to all who listen." -Anonymous
While I like to keep things light, lately I have found my self and others having a lack of maturity and vision. A thread was closed because of this. Let's keep things civil and lively!
--------------------
The Left is in Despair, their killing game is almost over:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/mathematician-bobby-piton-finds-500000-unique-last-names-pennsylvania-sophisticated-state-actor-able-optimize-desired-outcome/

Bobby Piton, the mathematician who testified at the Arizona voter fraud hearing dropped a bombshell this weekend. Piton revealed this weekend that he examined just over 9 million records in Pennsylvania and has identified 521,879 unique last names. In other words, these people have no parents, siblings, aunts, uncles or cousins who share the same last name (phantom voters). Pennsylvania has 695,430 Fewer People in the top 1000 Last Names. Bobby Piton found that there were fewer people with common surnames such as Smith, Jackson, Johnson. Bobby Piton essentially discovered where those 695,000+ illegal ballots came from in Pennsylvania. President Trump was ahead of Joe Biden by over 700,000 votes on election night in Pennsylvania and within a few days after the election, hundreds of thousands of ballots appeared for Joe Biden. Between 695,000 to 958,000 voters just got up and vanished out of Pennsylvania! Based on Piton’s findings, it appears that a centralized actor was calling the shots. Bobby Piton says a sophisticated State Actor was able to optimize a desired outcome for both the state of  Georgia and Pennsylvania.


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/evidence-foreign-influence-2020-election-nevada-secretary-state-caught-sending-voter-data-list-pakistani-firm-linked-isi/

Catherine Engelbrecht is the Founder and President of True The Vote the nation’s largest voters’ rights group. In November True the Vote wrote the Nevada Secretary of State for the eligible voter list report. When the Secretary of State responded True the Vote was shocked to see that waqas@kavtech.net was cc’ed. True the Vote later wrote the Assistant Attorney General for National Security John C. Demers about the date breach. The letter obtained exclusively by Breitbart News that when the email arrived, “I was shocked to see the inclusion of another email address in the CC line.” https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/static/source/rev-8b632d2/wp-content/uploads/engelbrecht-1-666x479.jpg
https://twitter.com/PatrickByrne/status/1343564483583766530

Whats next?
Amazingly, the Electoral College vote can be challenged under federal law and the United States Constitution. Republican electors in seven contested states cast alternate votes for Donald Trump to keep their legal options open. State legislatures retain their constitutional authority to offer alternative slates of electors. And Congress is the ultimate arbiter of the race since the ballot count can be contested during the joint session on January 6. If Brooks and one Senator object to certain state elector slates, then all bets are off. On January 6, Republicans may control the Senate and have strength in the House, just one Senator could step up and begin to change the course of history!
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/23/fitton-hope-for-a-failed-election/
https://electionwiz.com/2020/12/28/mo-brooks-dozens-in-the-house-will-sponsor-objections-to-biden-video/

Republican Texas Rep. Louie Gohmert and a group of other GOP figures filed a lawsuit Sunday against Vice President Mike Pence in an effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election. The lawsuit focuses on Pence, who will oversee the upcoming Jan. 6 meeting of Congress to count states’ electoral votes and finalize President-elect Joe Biden’s victory over President Donald Trump: https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/28/louie-gohmert-republicans-sue-mike-pence-overturn-presidential-election-biden-kelli-ward/

This could mean TREASON:
https://twitter.com/Lrihendry/status/1343550784286371841

None of this is true but thanks for sharing I guess.

Also, when was your diagnosis of serious mental illness and what meds are you on?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on December 29, 2020, 12:19:13 PM

None of this is true but thanks for sharing I guess.

Also, when was your diagnosis of serious mental illness and what meds are you on?

Prove it is not true. Just because you say so, means absolutely nothing here. You have to offer compelling and true evidence. Until then, these allegations should be investigated further.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 29, 2020, 01:11:03 PM

None of this is true but thanks for sharing I guess.

Also, when was your diagnosis of serious mental illness and what meds are you on?

Prove it is not true. Just because you say so, means absolutely nothing here. You have to offer compelling and true evidence. Until then, these allegations should be investigated further.
You are defending the posting of nonsense and demanding "compelling and true evidence" only for the counterclaim. You're a fucking idiot.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 29, 2020, 02:06:32 PM
"Regardless of what people say about or to me, I WILL NEVER BE SILENCED WITH THE TRUTH IN MY HANDS! The truth will set all free from the bonds of lies. ... it is given freely to all who listen." -Anonymous
While I like to keep things light, lately I have found my self and others having a lack of maturity and vision. A thread was closed because of this. Let's keep things civil and lively!

You called me "Zionist Scum" because I disagreed with you on the election topic and masks. The topic of Israel had never come up so when I rightly pointed out that's an antisemetic slur in this context, you had no defense at all. You are in no position to be claiming others lack maturity and vision and that others should keep it civil.

You want to keep it civil? Cool, how about you apologize for calling me a Zionist scum? That would go a long way with me.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 29, 2020, 02:11:07 PM

None of this is true but thanks for sharing I guess.

Also, when was your diagnosis of serious mental illness and what meds are you on?

Prove it is not true. Just because you say so, means absolutely nothing here. You have to offer compelling and true evidence. Until then, these allegations should be investigated further.
You are defending the posting of nonsense and demanding "compelling and true evidence" only for the counterclaim. You're a fucking idiot.

Says the fucking idiot declaring supported claims to be "nonsense" without bothering to debunk their evidence, provide evidence against them, or even offer some sort of argument. I bet you think that the burden of proof is 100% on the guy who already provided half a dozen links to support his claims, but you not liking what's behind those links doesn't make them automatically false, retard.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 29, 2020, 02:13:17 PM
How very Soviet of Sockpuppet, to simply handwave opposition away as suffering mental illness.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on December 29, 2020, 03:11:12 PM

None of this is true but thanks for sharing I guess.

Also, when was your diagnosis of serious mental illness and what meds are you on?

Prove it is not true. Just because you say so, means absolutely nothing here. You have to offer compelling and true evidence. Until then, these allegations should be investigated further.

The proof has been quoted many times in this thread. Many bipartisan checks, audits and investigations have been done. The problem isn't lack of proof, the problem is that Republicunts keep moving the goalposts. And you will again, and again, making any type of proof into an exercise in futility. I don't care if you morons labor under every misconception in the book. Like I said, Im here to point and laugh, and y'all are making it way too easy.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 29, 2020, 03:13:02 PM
Going over consolcwby's links:

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/mathematician-bobby-piton-finds-500000-unique-last-names-pennsylvania-sophisticated-state-actor-able-optimize-desired-outcome/

I'm unwilling to pay $20 to check this result, but it should be pretty easy - and given that it is easy, why hasn't he made his data available? The PA voter rolls are available for that charge here:
https://www.pavoterservices.pa.gov/pages/purchasepafullvoterexport.aspx

As for his conclusion -- first of all, having a unique last name on that list just means that person is the only *Pennsylvania registered voter* with that last name, not the only person. But even disregarding that, even completely unique last names aren't that rare. The same thing was found in the last census, for example:
Quote
Census respondents reported about 6.3 million surnames in 2010. Of these, only 11 were reported more than a million times each. The vast majority — 62 percent — were reported only once.
Source: https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2017/08/what-is-in-a-name.html

So there are around 4 million people with completely unique last names in the U.S. And as mentioned, to be unique in the Pennsylvania voter rolls doesn't require being completely unique. A known common case of unique last name is hyphenation -- those who change their last name to be a combination with their spouse, like "Kim-Stevens" or "Holland-White". Then there are just people who are the last of their family, or who have changed their last name for other reasons.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/evidence-foreign-influence-2020-election-nevada-secretary-state-caught-sending-voter-data-list-pakistani-firm-linked-isi/

I don't have the full story here, but voter roll information is *public domain information*. Anyone in the U.S. can get it and copy it, by law. That's why True the Vote was able to get it with no certification, simply by requesting it from the Secretary of State. With public domain information, there's no reason to keep it out of the hands of foreign-based companies. It's not secret. That's why there have been many analyses by people like Bobby Piton. You can get the PA data from the link I gave above, for example.

This is not classified data that has to be kept out of foreign hands.


Amazingly, the Electoral College vote can be challenged under federal law and the United States Constitution.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/23/fitton-hope-for-a-failed-election/
https://electionwiz.com/2020/12/28/mo-brooks-dozens-in-the-house-will-sponsor-objections-to-biden-video/
https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/28/louie-gohmert-republicans-sue-mike-pence-overturn-presidential-election-biden-kelli-ward/

This is about predictions of the future, rather than factual claims about what happened in the election. I'm fine with seeing what will happen on January 6th.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 29, 2020, 04:45:07 PM

None of this is true but thanks for sharing I guess.

Also, when was your diagnosis of serious mental illness and what meds are you on?

Prove it is not true. Just because you say so, means absolutely nothing here. You have to offer compelling and true evidence. Until then, these allegations should be investigated further.
You are defending the posting of nonsense and demanding "compelling and true evidence" only for the counterclaim. You're a fucking idiot.

Says the fucking idiot declaring supported claims to be "nonsense" without bothering to debunk their evidence, provide evidence against them, or even offer some sort of argument. I bet you think that the burden of proof is 100% on the guy who already provided half a dozen links to support his claims, but you not liking what's behind those links doesn't make them automatically false, retard.
Careful there, buddy. Last time you shit yourself, you got a thread locked.

And yes, I think the guy posting the links should take the time to verify what he's linking to.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on December 29, 2020, 05:05:34 PM

None of this is true but thanks for sharing I guess.

Also, when was your diagnosis of serious mental illness and what meds are you on?

Prove it is not true. Just because you say so, means absolutely nothing here. You have to offer compelling and true evidence. Until then, these allegations should be investigated further.
You are defending the posting of nonsense and demanding "compelling and true evidence" only for the counterclaim. You're a fucking idiot.

Says the fucking idiot declaring supported claims to be "nonsense" without bothering to debunk their evidence, provide evidence against them, or even offer some sort of argument. I bet you think that the burden of proof is 100% on the guy who already provided half a dozen links to support his claims, but you not liking what's behind those links doesn't make them automatically false, retard.
Careful there, buddy. Last time you shit yourself, you got a thread locked.

And yes, I think the guy posting the links should take the time to verify what he's linking to.

Whatever, "shitstain".

You're just gonna dismiss whatever anyone posts anyways, so I don't know what "verification" anyone could do that would pass your shifting standards.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 29, 2020, 05:39:52 PM

None of this is true but thanks for sharing I guess.

Also, when was your diagnosis of serious mental illness and what meds are you on?

Prove it is not true. Just because you say so, means absolutely nothing here. You have to offer compelling and true evidence. Until then, these allegations should be investigated further.
You are defending the posting of nonsense and demanding "compelling and true evidence" only for the counterclaim. You're a fucking idiot.

Says the fucking idiot declaring supported claims to be "nonsense" without bothering to debunk their evidence, provide evidence against them, or even offer some sort of argument. I bet you think that the burden of proof is 100% on the guy who already provided half a dozen links to support his claims, but you not liking what's behind those links doesn't make them automatically false, retard.
Careful there, buddy. Last time you shit yourself, you got a thread locked.

And yes, I think the guy posting the links should take the time to verify what he's linking to.

Whatever, "shitstain".

You're just gonna dismiss whatever anyone posts anyways, so I don't know what "verification" anyone could do that would pass your shifting standards.
You ignorant bitch, shitstain bowed out of this thread pages ago.

And, no, I don't "dismiss whatever anyone posts." I dismiss crap from sites that have routinely been shown to put up untrue bullshit. Sadly, those seem to be the sites many here turn to for their support. Beyond that, I do look over even these, and I've even agreed with others (like that bastard, SHARK) that some things looked bad (even if later proven not to be what it appeared, there was the definite appearance of impropriety). However, most of what gets posted is as meaningful as the pictures of your shit-smeared walls.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 29, 2020, 06:58:54 PM
"Regardless of what people say about or to me, I WILL NEVER BE SILENCED WITH THE TRUTH IN MY HANDS! The truth will set all free from the bonds of lies. ... it is given freely to all who listen." -Anonymous
While I like to keep things light, lately I have found my self and others having a lack of maturity and vision. A thread was closed because of this. Let's keep things civil and lively!
--------------------
The Left is in Despair, their killing game is almost over:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/mathematician-bobby-piton-finds-500000-unique-last-names-pennsylvania-sophisticated-state-actor-able-optimize-desired-outcome/

Bobby Piton, the mathematician who testified at the Arizona voter fraud hearing dropped a bombshell this weekend. Piton revealed this weekend that he examined just over 9 million records in Pennsylvania and has identified 521,879 unique last names. In other words, these people have no parents, siblings, aunts, uncles or cousins who share the same last name (phantom voters). Pennsylvania has 695,430 Fewer People in the top 1000 Last Names. Bobby Piton found that there were fewer people with common surnames such as Smith, Jackson, Johnson. Bobby Piton essentially discovered where those 695,000+ illegal ballots came from in Pennsylvania. President Trump was ahead of Joe Biden by over 700,000 votes on election night in Pennsylvania and within a few days after the election, hundreds of thousands of ballots appeared for Joe Biden. Between 695,000 to 958,000 voters just got up and vanished out of Pennsylvania! Based on Piton’s findings, it appears that a centralized actor was calling the shots. Bobby Piton says a sophisticated State Actor was able to optimize a desired outcome for both the state of  Georgia and Pennsylvania.


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/evidence-foreign-influence-2020-election-nevada-secretary-state-caught-sending-voter-data-list-pakistani-firm-linked-isi/

Catherine Engelbrecht is the Founder and President of True The Vote the nation’s largest voters’ rights group. In November True the Vote wrote the Nevada Secretary of State for the eligible voter list report. When the Secretary of State responded True the Vote was shocked to see that waqas@kavtech.net was cc’ed. True the Vote later wrote the Assistant Attorney General for National Security John C. Demers about the date breach. The letter obtained exclusively by Breitbart News that when the email arrived, “I was shocked to see the inclusion of another email address in the CC line.” https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/static/source/rev-8b632d2/wp-content/uploads/engelbrecht-1-666x479.jpg
https://twitter.com/PatrickByrne/status/1343564483583766530

Whats next?
Amazingly, the Electoral College vote can be challenged under federal law and the United States Constitution. Republican electors in seven contested states cast alternate votes for Donald Trump to keep their legal options open. State legislatures retain their constitutional authority to offer alternative slates of electors. And Congress is the ultimate arbiter of the race since the ballot count can be contested during the joint session on January 6. If Brooks and one Senator object to certain state elector slates, then all bets are off. On January 6, Republicans may control the Senate and have strength in the House, just one Senator could step up and begin to change the course of history!
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/23/fitton-hope-for-a-failed-election/
https://electionwiz.com/2020/12/28/mo-brooks-dozens-in-the-house-will-sponsor-objections-to-biden-video/

Republican Texas Rep. Louie Gohmert and a group of other GOP figures filed a lawsuit Sunday against Vice President Mike Pence in an effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election. The lawsuit focuses on Pence, who will oversee the upcoming Jan. 6 meeting of Congress to count states’ electoral votes and finalize President-elect Joe Biden’s victory over President Donald Trump: https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/28/louie-gohmert-republicans-sue-mike-pence-overturn-presidential-election-biden-kelli-ward/

This could mean TREASON:
https://twitter.com/Lrihendry/status/1343550784286371841

None of this is true but thanks for sharing I guess.

Also, when was your diagnosis of serious mental illness and what meds are you on?

I fact checked the claim that a member of the House and a senator can object to the electors and turns out that it fact checks: true.

So....turns out relying on CNN is not so accurate.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 29, 2020, 07:00:24 PM
Republican Texas Rep. Louie Gohmert and a group of other GOP figures filed a lawsuit Sunday against Vice President Mike Pence in an effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election. The lawsuit focuses on Pence, who will oversee the upcoming Jan. 6 meeting of Congress to count states’ electoral votes and finalize President-elect Joe Biden’s victory over President Donald Trump: https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/28/louie-gohmert-republicans-sue-mike-pence-overturn-presidential-election-biden-kelli-ward/

This is about predictions of the future, rather than factual claims about what happened in the election. I'm fine with seeing what will happen on January 6th.

The outcome of the case is in the future, but it is indeed accurate that a lawsuit Louie Gohmert et al v. Pence has been filed and does seek to give Pence exclusive power to decide what electoral votes to count. The lawsuit seems unlikely to succeed; if it were actually correct then Al Gore could have unilaterally chosen  himself as president in 2000. I would be fascinated to hear how anyone who supports this intends to have it not apply when a Democrat presides. Or is the plan to simply dispense with all future elections and always appoint a corrupt Republican who will perpetuate this scheme?

Amusingly, the complaint includes the following quotation from a Supreme Court decision (after 32. on page 11):
Quote
The Supreme Court has affirmed that the "power and jurisdiction of the state [legislature]" to select electors "is exclusive," McPherson v. Blacker, 146 U.S. 1, 11 (1892)
(The case cited was about whether having electors elected by congressional district is constitutional; Maine and Nebraska both do this.) But the Supreme Court decision (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/146/1/#tab-opinion-1914989) actually says "the power and jurisdiction of the state is exclusive"; the lawsuit adds a word that is not present. I'm sure that such a liberty will not bother any judge or justice anywhere.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 29, 2020, 07:25:16 PM
I fact checked the claim that a member of the House and a senator can object to the electors and turns out that it fact checks: true.

Sure, the Electoral Count Act says that a complaint must be signed by at least one member from each chamber. For 2000, House members objected to the electoral votes from Florida but no Senator signed on, so the objection was not debated and voted on. For 2004, Ohio's electoral votes were objected to, with the objection debated and voted on by each chamber separately.

Since the House votes in the usual way and not with one vote by state (as was the case in the 2004 election and in an objection to a faithless elector in 1969), the electoral votes objected to will not be rejected unless the Democratic majority in the House accepts the objection. The more interesting question is whether any Senator will join an objection, and if so how individual Senators will vote between fair elections and Trump; Mitch McConnell is trying to get all Republican Senators to agree not to join any objections to avoid such a vote. At 49-48 Republican, it's not clear that the Senate would vote in favor of an objection.

Quote
So....turns out relying on CNN is not so accurate.

Hmm, do you have a link to CNN giving inaccurate information on this? Everything I turn up on cnn.com seems to have the correct information.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 29, 2020, 09:34:15 PM
Everything I turn up on cnn.com seems to have the correct information.

I know, right?

Echo, echo, echo, echo.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 29, 2020, 11:07:48 PM
The Despair is coming...
---
Everything I have stated so far has not always gone the way I have liked. But, I have known for decades that the creators of the internet still have access and ownership. Always have! I wanted to bring out the worst and best in order to illustrate a point to them: Just because I wouldn't violate the Sabbath for your servers, does NOT mean I am not an American. Not once have I taken advantage of the situations all have found themselves in. Nor have I profited nor have I benefited. I am as I always have been, as you all have always known: A BIG MOUTH. I will never be silenced, however ~ a plan may work ONLY if one can take it. Have I not taken it? From the guns known, to the weapons which cannot be proven, I have endured. I am loyal. I see the enemy, and they are boiling in that pot! My part is near over, I have unmasked some and ask for mercy for them. Let them know! I have always been honorable, and give thanks for the rest. Do with me as you wish, but I leave those with me in your protection. May my death not be in vain, but for my God and Country! No matter what: WWg1WgA1!
-console cowboy

=============================
THIS WAS ALWAYS GOING TO COME DOWN "TO THE WIRE."
President Trump is going through EVERY SINGLE LEGAL & CONSTITUTIONAL Process available to him in orders of magnitude.
What do I mean by that? His numerous Paths to Victory in the 2020 Election are failing one by one. As each PATHWAY falters or fails Trump moves to another pathway that is less desirable than the previous one. WHY less desirable? Think of these pathways as EARTHQUAKES.
State Courts=3.0 on the Richter Scale to the Nation.
Federal Courts 4.0
SCOTUS=5.0
See where I'm going here?

I'm in the same small Boat with Thomas Wictor, My Brother Brian Cates & a FEW more who are looking at all of the numerous CLUES Trump given to Americans who are PAYING ATTENTION.
Clues that clearly show that not only is he in NO DANGER of losing the Presidency, he's about to absolutely WRECK all of the blatant, HIDEOUSLY ARROGANT & corrupt Domestic Enemies that have, at the same time they appear to be thwarting Trump at every turn are being EXPOSED & SHOWCASED to us to JUSTIFY what he's about to do. Because Trump WARGAMED all this out YEARS AGO. Understand, President Trump is making GOOD FAITH efforts to resolve this STOLEN ELECTION via these paths. But he & his people know how compromised our Institutions & Agencies are. If you grasped the actual level of #RESISTANCE Trump gets from Gov. your jaw would hit your knees.

They have been assessing & compiling EVIDENCE for years. It's why I stated Mike Pompeo & about TEN other people ARE the US State Dept. right now. Why do you think Special Operations was PULLED OUT of the US Military's CHAIN of Command & made practically it's own Department? See the CCP has used the tried & true methods of the ancient CRIME FAMILIES called THE TRIADS to build a GLOBAL NETWORK to spread their control & influence thru corruption (graft & Honeypots) or BLACKMAIL (GOTCHA BITCH!) I now post 4 pictures FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER.

The CCP doesn't have to HANDLE their compromised Operatives directly.
SEE THE NBA.
GET IT?
For the past 20 + years they have been COMPROMISING KEY PEOPLE in our Government & Institutions.
AS Flynn fought that.
A #SilentWAR.
Trump is now fighting back with KEY INDIVIDUALS.

He's SET THE STAGE for everything that's about to happen. I will say this again=Trump's Election Victory should have been declared on Nov. 3rd but the Democrats have gone INSANE.
So now we are being SHOWN the breadth & scope of the SWAMP. Before he SHAKES THE BOX. I listen to EVERYTHING President Trump says DIRECTLY. I do NOT listen to anyone trying to TELL ME what he said or meant. I look at the ACTIONS of certain people in his Orbit like General Flynn, Sidney Powell, etc. & I look for patterns & trends. I ignore the Dog & Pony Show.

Because it's all a distraction. I say again, the Legal effort being made is legit, but failing. Congress is failing. THE GOP IS SCREWING TRUMP (& therefore US yet again) Looks utterly & completely hopeless, right? IT'S ALL FALLING APART! WE'RE DOOMED!
(As long as you GIVE UP)

THIS IS A TEST OF FAITH. A CRUCIBLE.
President Trump APPEARS finished. He LOOKS weak, a goner. HIGH DRAMA, FOLKS. As he separates the Loyal from the disloyal in the GOP. McConnell just blocked the quick vote on the $2,000 Stimulus. #PERFECT! Every Mask is falling away. I am 1,000 per cent confident what will unfold on Jan. 6th will be WORLD SHATTERING. As I've watched President Trump preparing for it for AT LEAST 10 years. (I had to go back & RESEARCH the years prior to 2016) The actual broad strategy to defeat our Domestic Enemies. By Jan. 7th Americans will know the Swamp has been soundly broken & exposed (still dangerous, mind you but incredibly weakened) or the Republic AS FOUNDED will cease to be. Benedict Arnold is trending today because the Arizona GOP did this So the Left IMMEDIATELY likened the image to a portrait of Benedict Arnold, the infamous American Traitor. AS INTENDED. Yes, YES! It IS simply that easy to play the Left. Another INFORMATION WARFARE Gambit pays off.

Because we have over a HUNDRED Benedict Arnolds that are about to be EXPOSED as CCP Operatives. The outing of Swalwell was just a harbinger of what's going to drop once Trump's 2nd term is assured on Jan. 6th. People can't SEE it because they're NOT LOOKING.

from: https://twitter.com/CatesDuane/status/1343966522830688256
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 29, 2020, 11:30:38 PM
Everything I turn up on cnn.com seems to have the correct information.

I know, right?

Echo, echo, echo, echo.

Still waiting for a link. I guess you were just signaling your political affiliation and can't actually find anything to support your claim.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on December 29, 2020, 11:38:57 PM
REEEEMIX!

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 30, 2020, 02:25:04 PM
Exactly 3 weeks to go before this is all finally over except the whining.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on December 30, 2020, 02:48:03 PM
Clues that clearly show that not only is he in NO DANGER of losing the Presidency, he's about to absolutely WRECK all of the blatant, HIDEOUSLY ARROGANT & corrupt Domestic Enemies that have, at the same time they appear to be thwarting Trump at every turn are being EXPOSED & SHOWCASED to us to JUSTIFY what he's about to do. Because Trump WARGAMED all this out YEARS AGO. Understand, President Trump is making GOOD FAITH efforts to resolve this STOLEN ELECTION via these paths. But he & his people know how compromised our Institutions & Agencies are. If you grasped the actual level of #RESISTANCE Trump gets from Gov. your jaw would hit your knees.
President Trump APPEARS finished. He LOOKS weak, a goner. HIGH DRAMA, FOLKS. As he separates the Loyal from the disloyal in the GOP. McConnell just blocked the quick vote on the $2,000 Stimulus. #PERFECT! Every Mask is falling away. I am 1,000 per cent confident what will unfold on Jan. 6th will be WORLD SHATTERING. As I've watched President Trump preparing for it for AT LEAST 10 years. (I had to go back & RESEARCH the years prior to 2016)

OK, consolcwby - so what I would ask is - *if* you turn out to be wrong about this, might that make you think that your sources aren't as reliable as you thought? Or would you just conclude that your sources are still completely reliable and there was no flaw in your thinking?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 30, 2020, 03:29:50 PM
Clues that clearly show that not only is he in NO DANGER of losing the Presidency, he's about to absolutely WRECK all of the blatant, HIDEOUSLY ARROGANT & corrupt Domestic Enemies that have, at the same time they appear to be thwarting Trump at every turn are being EXPOSED & SHOWCASED to us to JUSTIFY what he's about to do. Because Trump WARGAMED all this out YEARS AGO. Understand, President Trump is making GOOD FAITH efforts to resolve this STOLEN ELECTION via these paths. But he & his people know how compromised our Institutions & Agencies are. If you grasped the actual level of #RESISTANCE Trump gets from Gov. your jaw would hit your knees.
President Trump APPEARS finished. He LOOKS weak, a goner. HIGH DRAMA, FOLKS. As he separates the Loyal from the disloyal in the GOP. McConnell just blocked the quick vote on the $2,000 Stimulus. #PERFECT! Every Mask is falling away. I am 1,000 per cent confident what will unfold on Jan. 6th will be WORLD SHATTERING. As I've watched President Trump preparing for it for AT LEAST 10 years. (I had to go back & RESEARCH the years prior to 2016)

OK, consolcwby - so what I would ask is - *if* you turn out to be wrong about this, might that make you think that your sources aren't as reliable as you thought? Or would you just conclude that your sources are still completely reliable and there was no flaw in your thinking?
He's not about to break character. He's posting crazy shit intentionally to troll the conspiracy theory nutters.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 30, 2020, 04:13:18 PM

He's not about to break character. He's posting crazy shit intentionally to troll the conspiracy theory nutters.

I know it would be easier to think that, but that's not accurate. This really is him. The real him. He's not in character, and he's not trolling.

Which, if that leads you to be concerned for his mental health, you're probably on the right track.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on December 30, 2020, 04:35:06 PM

He's not about to break character. He's posting crazy shit intentionally to troll the conspiracy theory nutters.

I know it would be easier to think that, but that's not accurate. This really is him. The real him. He's not in character, and he's not trolling.

Which, if that leads you to be concerned for his mental health, you're probably on the right track.
Citation needed.  ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 30, 2020, 05:24:32 PM
Still waiting for a link. I guess you were just signaling your political affiliation and can't actually find anything to support your claim.

Sorry man, I thought you had it bookmarked:

cnn.com (http://cnn.com)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 30, 2020, 06:47:51 PM
Still waiting for a link. I guess you were just signaling your political affiliation and can't actually find anything to support your claim.

Sorry man, I thought you had it bookmarked:

cnn.com (http://cnn.com)

Where is the error regarding objections in Congress during the electoral vote count? My guess is looking more and more likely to be correct.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on December 30, 2020, 08:00:17 PM
Where is the error regarding objections in Congress during the electoral vote count? My guess is looking more and more likely to be correct.

The error is that the Speaker of the House can override any objection, not that she will of course. In the Senate, it is the designated Senate Majority Leader, if however at any time there is a tie in the Senate vote, then the Vice-President gets to vote as the Tie-Breaker. Both the Senate and the House of course, have to ratify the electoral vote count.

Interestingly, on January 5th, the Democrats are looking to flip both Senate seats in Georgia which will effectively give them a tie vote in the Senate, with Vice-President Kamala choosing which way the vote goes after that. She also can step on the Senate majority leader and override any new legislative endeavors too. Right now, Mitch McConnell is the senate majority leader, and you can see how much he enjoys fucking everything up, royally, for most Americans, and will be found otherwise on his knees bobbing for the 1%, and foreign powers, like the turtle he is.

Should be interesting to see how things develop in the coming four years, as democracy is on the rocks, and the Republicans and Democrats both have led us here. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 30, 2020, 08:08:35 PM
Still waiting for a link. I guess you were just signaling your political affiliation and can't actually find anything to support your claim.

Sorry man, I thought you had it bookmarked:

cnn.com (http://cnn.com)

Where is the error regarding objections in Congress during the electoral vote count? My guess is looking more and more likely to be correct.

Ok, well I guess we can change the subject back to the other fake news that a member of the house and a senator can not, supposedly, object to the electors.  According to Tubesock.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 30, 2020, 09:25:02 PM
Exactly 3 weeks to go before this is all finally over except the whining.

The people who voted for Trump aren't going to magically disappear in January. The media can't afford to lose Trump. He's been their best draw in a time when their relevance is fading fast.
This is just the beginning.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 30, 2020, 10:39:30 PM
Still waiting for a link. I guess you were just signaling your political affiliation and can't actually find anything to support your claim.

Sorry man, I thought you had it bookmarked:

cnn.com (http://cnn.com)

Where is the error regarding objections in Congress during the electoral vote count? My guess is looking more and more likely to be correct.

Ok, well I guess we can change the subject back to the other fake news that a member of the house and a senator can not, supposedly, object to the electors.  According to Tubesock.

So my guess was correct, then? You claimed a CNN error, but instead of proof you refer to Tubesock (Army, or some other Tubesock?) still with no link. You're performing badly but about the same as the elite strike force.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 30, 2020, 10:54:33 PM
Still waiting for a link. I guess you were just signaling your political affiliation and can't actually find anything to support your claim.

Sorry man, I thought you had it bookmarked:

cnn.com (http://cnn.com)

Where is the error regarding objections in Congress during the electoral vote count? My guess is looking more and more likely to be correct.

Ok, well I guess we can change the subject back to the other fake news that a member of the house and a senator can not, supposedly, object to the electors.  According to Tubesock.

So my guess was correct, then? You claimed a CNN error, but instead of proof you refer to Tubesock (Army, or some other Tubesock?) still with no link. You're performing badly but about the same as the elite strike force.

So you want to change the subject back to CNN?

Ok, I guess.  So what have they been lying about now?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 30, 2020, 11:23:50 PM
Still waiting for a link. I guess you were just signaling your political affiliation and can't actually find anything to support your claim.

Sorry man, I thought you had it bookmarked:

cnn.com (http://cnn.com)

Where is the error regarding objections in Congress during the electoral vote count? My guess is looking more and more likely to be correct.

Ok, well I guess we can change the subject back to the other fake news that a member of the house and a senator can not, supposedly, object to the electors.  According to Tubesock.

So my guess was correct, then? You claimed a CNN error, but instead of proof you refer to Tubesock (Army, or some other Tubesock?) still with no link. You're performing badly but about the same as the elite strike force.

So you want to change the subject back to CNN?

Ok, I guess.  So what have they been lying about now?

The subject remains your claim that CNN claimed something specific (that an objection could not be made by a representative and a senator) that was not true. If you're not just casting random aspersions, post a link.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 31, 2020, 12:19:06 AM
"Despair, is such a powerful  negative word, and can cause and spread like a disease an extremely negative ways. I believe that many times people can create despair within themselves, more than the external conditions actually portray. Hope is harmony. A just heart, moving toward the light. That is all. Despair is hope's polar opposite. It is messy and confusing. It swallows up love, hatred, and everything else. Because not knowing where you will end up is despair. Despair is even what you cannot predict. Only despair's unpredictability can save you from a boring future." -Junko Enoshima
===========================
Trump has now trapped, congress. Congress has been put into the spotlight with the stimulus bill and the NDAA. Now people are watching to see how congress handles this.This is something they do not want, they are exposed. The EU begins to talk about the great reset, this is already failing. The MSM and Deep State has just been exposed. The idea that there is no such thing as election fraud and that the election systems are secure has just been debunked. GA held a hearing and now the GA lawmakers are looking into the ballots. The entire election scam is falling apart and those who knowingly participated are feeling the heat. Tick tock time is running out.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell introduced legislation authorizing direct cash payments of $2,000  , but tied it to a repeal of Section 230 and an investigation into the president’s allegations of voter fraud. Democrats immediately criticized McConnell’s bill, calling it a “poison pill” and warning that it would fall short of the necessary support needed to pass.   
McConnell has so far resisted holding a vote on any legislation regarding increased stimulus checks even as senators from both parties increase the pressure to do so. Vermont Independent Sen. Bernie Sanders said on Tuesday that he would filibuster the Senate’s override of the annual military bill, keeping the chamber in session through the New Year, unless it held a vote on $2,000 checks. His effort was seconded by Missouri Republican Sen. Josh Hawley, who tweeted on Tuesday that “he would not consent to a vote on the bad defense bill… unless the Senate votes on $2k Covid relief for working people.” 
https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/30/mcconnell-2000-checks-section-230-repeal-voter-fraud/

Those Damn Swedes, At It Again...
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1344261205158858752
Just when is whitey gonna learn, anyhow??

The Trump campaign took its Wisconsin Constitutional fight to the US Supreme Court. The Trump campaign is challenging the 50,000 illegal absentee votes that were allowed to be counted in the state: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/trump-campaign-takes-wisconsin-constitutional-fight-us-supreme-court/

Welcome to 2020, when @JovanHPulitzer hacked a voting machine live during a government hearing and the press insists there is no evidence of election fraud. Two months worth of fake talking points were just blown sky high. “Dominion’s voting machines are secure, can’t be hacked into remotely and are not connected to the internet anyway and HOW DARE YOU ALLEGE OTHERWISE, YOU LUNATIC!"Good thing there is no proof, however! BUT: Like a good neighbor...
https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1344361368020021249
https://twitter.com/Wizard_Predicts/status/1344316707381325832
https://twitter.com/bjvangundy/status/1344118424138641416

Jovan Pulitzer revealed the differences between votes printed for Democrat counties versus Republican counties. The Republican counties had a barcode up in the right-hand corner. The votes from two different counties are printed differently. This caused GOP votes to get kicked out by the Dominion machines. Secretary of State Raffensperger allowed this to take place: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/raffensperger-gets-caught-georgia-ballots-printed-differently-gop-counties-vs-dem-counties-election-rigged/

Coffee County official spoke before Georgia’s Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Elections. The woman told the subcommittee that when their county complained to Secretary of State Raffensperger about the voting machines and the recounts Secretary Raffensperger sent armed Secretary of State officials with handcuffs and two Dominion operators to the county. She said Raffensperger was intentionally threatening the county officials: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/georgia-county-official-raffensperger-sent-armed-secretary-state-agents-handcuffs-county-complained-inaccurate-dominion-machines-video/

Actually making sense is a HIGH CRIME on the internet! https://twitter.com/Wizard_Predicts/status/1344315322975875077
Especial if it involves WAL*MART: https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1344355788303855617

Just Found This Out: https://www.timesofisrael.com/pence-cancels-final-visit-to-israel-before-leaving-office/
A planned visit to Israel by US Vice President Mike Pence was called off less than two weeks before he was due to arrive, the US Embassy confirmed Wednesday.No reason was given for the cancellation, which was first reported by the Ynet news site.Pence was reportedly scheduled to make a number of stops on a final world trip before leaving office on January 20. Earlier this month, Politico reported that the vice president planned to take off on January 6 — the same day the US Congress is scheduled to confirm President-elect Joe Biden’s electoral victory — visiting a number of countries, including Israel from January 10 to 13.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on December 31, 2020, 01:38:35 AM
Still waiting for a link. I guess you were just signaling your political affiliation and can't actually find anything to support your claim.

Sorry man, I thought you had it bookmarked:

cnn.com (http://cnn.com)

Where is the error regarding objections in Congress during the electoral vote count? My guess is looking more and more likely to be correct.

Ok, well I guess we can change the subject back to the other fake news that a member of the house and a senator can not, supposedly, object to the electors.  According to Tubesock.

So my guess was correct, then? You claimed a CNN error, but instead of proof you refer to Tubesock (Army, or some other Tubesock?) still with no link. You're performing badly but about the same as the elite strike force.

So you want to change the subject back to CNN?

Ok, I guess.  So what have they been lying about now?

CNN is pretty much fake news but I’m curious who would you say is real news?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 31, 2020, 01:48:23 AM
"Despair, is such a powerful  negative word, and can cause and spread like a disease an extremely negative ways. I believe that many times people can create despair within themselves, more than the external conditions actually portray. Hope is harmony. A just heart, moving toward the light. That is all. Despair is hope's polar opposite. It is messy and confusing. It swallows up love, hatred, and everything else. Because not knowing where you will end up is despair. Despair is even what you cannot predict. Only despair's unpredictability can save you from a boring future." -Junko Enoshima
===========================
Trump has now trapped, congress. Congress has been put into the spotlight with the stimulus bill and the NDAA. Now people are watching to see how congress handles this.This is something they do not want, they are exposed. The EU begins to talk about the great reset, this is already failing. The MSM and Deep State has just been exposed. The idea that there is no such thing as election fraud and that the election systems are secure has just been debunked. GA held a hearing and now the GA lawmakers are looking into the ballots. The entire election scam is falling apart and those who knowingly participated are feeling the heat. Tick tock time is running out.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell introduced legislation authorizing direct cash payments of $2,000  , but tied it to a repeal of Section 230 and an investigation into the president’s allegations of voter fraud. Democrats immediately criticized McConnell’s bill, calling it a “poison pill” and warning that it would fall short of the necessary support needed to pass.   
McConnell has so far resisted holding a vote on any legislation regarding increased stimulus checks even as senators from both parties increase the pressure to do so. Vermont Independent Sen. Bernie Sanders said on Tuesday that he would filibuster the Senate’s override of the annual military bill, keeping the chamber in session through the New Year, unless it held a vote on $2,000 checks. His effort was seconded by Missouri Republican Sen. Josh Hawley, who tweeted on Tuesday that “he would not consent to a vote on the bad defense bill… unless the Senate votes on $2k Covid relief for working people.” 
https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/30/mcconnell-2000-checks-section-230-repeal-voter-fraud/

Those Damn Swedes, At It Again...
https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1344261205158858752
Just when is whitey gonna learn, anyhow??

The Trump campaign took its Wisconsin Constitutional fight to the US Supreme Court. The Trump campaign is challenging the 50,000 illegal absentee votes that were allowed to be counted in the state: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/trump-campaign-takes-wisconsin-constitutional-fight-us-supreme-court/

Welcome to 2020, when @JovanHPulitzer hacked a voting machine live during a government hearing and the press insists there is no evidence of election fraud. Two months worth of fake talking points were just blown sky high. “Dominion’s voting machines are secure, can’t be hacked into remotely and are not connected to the internet anyway and HOW DARE YOU ALLEGE OTHERWISE, YOU LUNATIC!"Good thing there is no proof, however! BUT: Like a good neighbor...
https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1344361368020021249
https://twitter.com/Wizard_Predicts/status/1344316707381325832
https://twitter.com/bjvangundy/status/1344118424138641416

Jovan Pulitzer revealed the differences between votes printed for Democrat counties versus Republican counties. The Republican counties had a barcode up in the right-hand corner. The votes from two different counties are printed differently. This caused GOP votes to get kicked out by the Dominion machines. Secretary of State Raffensperger allowed this to take place: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/raffensperger-gets-caught-georgia-ballots-printed-differently-gop-counties-vs-dem-counties-election-rigged/

Coffee County official spoke before Georgia’s Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Elections. The woman told the subcommittee that when their county complained to Secretary of State Raffensperger about the voting machines and the recounts Secretary Raffensperger sent armed Secretary of State officials with handcuffs and two Dominion operators to the county. She said Raffensperger was intentionally threatening the county officials: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/georgia-county-official-raffensperger-sent-armed-secretary-state-agents-handcuffs-county-complained-inaccurate-dominion-machines-video/

Actually making sense is a HIGH CRIME on the internet! https://twitter.com/Wizard_Predicts/status/1344315322975875077
Especial if it involves WAL*MART: https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1344355788303855617

Just Found This Out: https://www.timesofisrael.com/pence-cancels-final-visit-to-israel-before-leaving-office/
A planned visit to Israel by US Vice President Mike Pence was called off less than two weeks before he was due to arrive, the US Embassy confirmed Wednesday.No reason was given for the cancellation, which was first reported by the Ynet news site.Pence was reportedly scheduled to make a number of stops on a final world trip before leaving office on January 20. Earlier this month, Politico reported that the vice president planned to take off on January 6 — the same day the US Congress is scheduled to confirm President-elect Joe Biden’s electoral victory — visiting a number of countries, including Israel from January 10 to 13.

Greetings!

Goodstuff, Consolcwby! Indeed, all the constant and shrill cries that there is no evidence! No substantial evidence! No fraud! No significant fraud to overturn the election! They just keep moving the goal posts. More and more evidence and testimony is coming out. There is a huge thing going on in Arizona, with more revelations of fraud, with the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors refusing to abide by a Senate ordered subpoena for the fucking Dominion voting machines! Yeah, we can't have the good people getting a hold of those machines and analyzing them. Fucking lying, evil corrupt frauds! I will love the day when they are thrown into Guantanamo. I bet if the Federal government prosecuted some of these corrupt traitors, and had some of them swinging from the trees, right quick the others would start spilling their guts. Oh, please! Have mercy on us! We only wanted to line our pockets with cash, and didn't give a fuck about betraying the Republic to Marxism! They can beg and sob all they want.

No mercy for these fucking traitors. They have betrayed our sacred Republic, and should be damned. Damn them all to the fire!

And yes, the same evil, corrupt bullshit that is being shown to have happened in Arizona--it is the same fucking menu that the other contested states cheated and defrauded the American people, and betrayed our Republic! It is all coming to the surface.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on December 31, 2020, 01:30:34 PM
Right now, Mitch McConnell is the senate majority leader, and you can see how much he enjoys fucking everything up, royally, for most Americans, and will be found otherwise on his knees bobbing for the 1%, and foreign powers, like the turtle he is.
Right now, Nancy Pelosi is the house speaker, and you can see how much she enjoys fucking everything up, royally, for most Americans, and will be found otherwise on her knees bobbing for the 1%, and foreign powers, like the turtle she is.
I see no difference.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on December 31, 2020, 01:36:45 PM
I see no difference.

Pretty much.  That's why they have to destroy Trump. 
We can't have anyone shining light on the establishment cockroaches now, can we?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on December 31, 2020, 05:20:38 PM
No mercy for these fucking traitors. They have betrayed our sacred Republic, and should be damned. Damn them all to the fire!
Exactly. Trump and all his toadies deserve no mercy.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 31, 2020, 05:39:11 PM
No mercy for these fucking traitors. They have betrayed our sacred Republic, and should be damned. Damn them all to the fire!
Exactly. Trump and all his toadies deserve no mercy.
Say when.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 31, 2020, 06:17:18 PM
Still waiting for a link. I guess you were just signaling your political affiliation and can't actually find anything to support your claim.

Sorry man, I thought you had it bookmarked:

cnn.com (http://cnn.com)

Where is the error regarding objections in Congress during the electoral vote count? My guess is looking more and more likely to be correct.

Ok, well I guess we can change the subject back to the other fake news that a member of the house and a senator can not, supposedly, object to the electors.  According to Tubesock.

So my guess was correct, then? You claimed a CNN error, but instead of proof you refer to Tubesock (Army, or some other Tubesock?) still with no link. You're performing badly but about the same as the elite strike force.

So you want to change the subject back to CNN?

Ok, I guess.  So what have they been lying about now?

The subject remains your claim that CNN claimed something specific (that an objection could not be made by a representative and a senator) that was not true. If you're not just casting random aspersions, post a link.

I never said that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on December 31, 2020, 06:18:14 PM
CNN is pretty much fake news but I’m curious who would you say is real news?

You think there is "real' news?  Ok
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 31, 2020, 08:49:44 PM
HAPPY NEW YEARS EVERYBODY!
To celebrate what was 2020, I hereby nominate THIS HERE SONG as the theme song of 2020! Maybe 2021 will be better?... nah!
ENJOI
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 31, 2020, 09:57:40 PM
No mercy for these fucking traitors. They have betrayed our sacred Republic, and should be damned. Damn them all to the fire!
Exactly. Trump and all his toadies deserve no mercy.

Greetings!

Yeah? You think so? Well, that's fine. All the jello-filled, soy boys and rainbow haired freaks can hate our President and all the millions and millions of his supporters all they want.

I'm ready. My whole neighborhood, my whole town, supports our President. Everyone I know is armed to the teeth. Anyone that thinks that Trump supporters and the faithful patriots that voted for him are traitors to our Republic can get fucked.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on December 31, 2020, 09:59:27 PM
No mercy for these fucking traitors. They have betrayed our sacred Republic, and should be damned. Damn them all to the fire!
Exactly. Trump and all his toadies deserve no mercy.
Say when.

Greetings!

Exactly, brother! GET SOME!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 31, 2020, 10:07:31 PM
The Deep State and Central Bank [FED] is falling apart, Trump had the Deep State and FED accelerate their plan so the people were able to see it clearly. Now the people can see it. The great reset is failing, the pandemic is failing and now the people can see who actually destroyed their lives economically. The Deep State and FED fell right into the patriots trap. They patriots have been planning this for a long time. The people are now seeing election fraud for the first time and a grand scale. The MSM/Social Media narrative is falling apart. The constitution is now on deck and the patriots are waiting for the right moment to strike, good will always win in the end. The Deep State players will not be able to walk down the street. The people know who the real enemy is.

THIS JUST IN: Trump left Mar A Lago early to go back to DC, cancelling a New Year’s Eve party hundreds of people had bought tickets for. What is going on??

Irrefutable evidence of election fraud in GA?! (Guess they never seen this thread, amirite?)
https://twitter.com/Rothbard1776/status/1344374207979913216

And in PA, a plea to the Repubs will go unnoticed - more than likely! (Wasn't I correct about the Courts?...)
https://twitter.com/SenMastriano/status/1344659659865677825

Will this happen? Or will there be open warfare? Where will you be on Jan. 6th?
State Lawmakers Choose Electors; the Vice President Determines If There’s a Dispute; the House Resolves the Dispute by a Contingent Election: Under the 12th Amendment, the vice president, in his constitutionally prescribed role as president of the Senate, is granted the sole power to “open” the electoral vote certificates and “count” them at the joint session of Congress, this year scheduled for Jan. 6. Pence will be faced with dueling electoral votes for the six disputed swing states, a Biden slate from the governors, and a Trump slate from the lawmakers. The six disputed swing states account for 79 electoral votes. Not counting them, Trump stands at 232 and Biden at 227. Thus, the disputed votes are sufficient to make either candidate a winner, if they are counted, or neither candidate a winner, if they are not counted, since in the latter case neither candidate will reach 270 votes (though in that case Trump would have a majority of the votes counted).

A Contingent Election in the House: The 12th Amendment sets forth a procedure for resolving a disputed election where neither candidate achieves a majority of electoral votes. In that case, a “contingent election” is held by the House: “the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote …”; if Pence were to “open” and read the electoral votes cast by both of the competing slates of electors from the six swing states, and choose “not to count” either set—in light of the conflict—the House of Representatives would immediately vote to determine the winner, with each state getting one vote. Given that a majority of states are GOP-controlled (although the Democrats control a greater number of representatives), Trump would prevail.
Electoral Count Act Sets Forth a Procedure Entirely Different from that Prescribed by the 12th Amendment

the Electoral Count Act (ECA) provides an entirely different procedure. Instead of a contingent election in the House, the ECA calls for “objections” to be sponsored in both chambers, and if, and only if, the objections carry in both houses are the objected-to electors not counted (in which case a contingent election would take place in the House). If the objection doesn’t carry in either or both houses of Congress, then the ECA further provides that the slate certified by the governor controls, in which case the dispute is thus resolved, and a contingent election never takes place.The ECA varies the 12th Amendment procedure for resolving disputed electoral votes in three crucial respects:
First, while the 12th Amendment grants no role whatsoever to the Senate, the ECA grants the Senate equal control over objections, as they must pass the Senate and the House.
Second, the ECA provides that in the absence of objections passing in both houses, the slate certified by the governor of the state controls. This is nowhere provided in the 12th Amendment. Third, by providing for governor-certified slates to be counted even if there are dueling slates of electors—absent objections passing in both houses of Congress—the ECA eliminates and replaces the contingent election procedure set forth in the 12th Amendment, because by virtue of counting the governor-certified slates, the dispute is resolved (though not in the manner set forth in the Constitution, i.e., the 12th Amendment), and never reaches the House (for a contingent election). The vice president should adhere to his oath of office and refuses to “count” either slate of disputed electors, this will then  send the matter to the House for a “contingent election” as the 12th Amendment requires.

from: https://www.theepochtimes.com/vice-president-pence-must-be-guided-by-the-12th-amendment-not-the-electoral-count-act-on-jan-6_3638449.html

Wanna see a DANCING MONKEY? https://twitter.com/JohnBrennan/status/1344403651402600448
Why is HE so nervous?...

Is this man the Supreme Paedo? https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1344451598131617792

Btw, Epstein did NOT kill himself... WTF?! HE IS STILL ALIVE?! https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1344652363861258243
(That's even TOO much for ME! I'm outta here!)
==============================
CONCOMMS:
We are going to show you a new world.
Those who are blind will soon see the light.
A beautiful brave new world lies ahead.
We take this journey together.
One step at a time.

WWG1WGA!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on December 31, 2020, 10:19:31 PM
20 days until Biden is sworn in as the next President.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on December 31, 2020, 10:38:50 PM
No mercy for these fucking traitors. They have betrayed our sacred Republic, and should be damned. Damn them all to the fire!
Exactly. Trump and all his toadies deserve no mercy.
Say when.

Greetings!

Exactly, brother! GET SOME!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


Entirely correct. Empty threats from those who would crawl on their bellies for their all-powerful and all-knowing CCP masters! I love these vids, not just because I've known many who worked at RAYTHEON, but also because I was a BIG FAN of the 1980s-90s show WINGS and love love love the hardware! When I was in college, I loved the Microprose and Spectrum Holobyte Flight Sims! I miss those games so much! But, it'll look less like a war than a quick operation! From what I learned about Jade Helm, it won't take long for the military to secure the cities - IF it comes to that!

Since some are saying J. Epstein is alive.... I'm ready for just about ANYTHING!
God bless, and happy New Year bro!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on December 31, 2020, 11:00:20 PM
The subject remains your claim that CNN claimed something specific (that an objection could not be made by a representative and a senator) that was not true. If you're not just casting random aspersions, post a link.

I never said that.

The following is a nonsensical non sequitur then.

I fact checked the claim that a member of the House and a senator can object to the electors and turns out that it fact checks: true.

So....turns out relying on CNN is not so accurate.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on December 31, 2020, 11:37:17 PM
No mercy for these fucking traitors. They have betrayed our sacred Republic, and should be damned. Damn them all to the fire!
Exactly. Trump and all his toadies deserve no mercy.

Greetings!

Yeah? You think so?
Yeah, pretty much. I've been shocked at the contempt shown for our republic and method of government by the cowards who kowtow to Trump and suck down and spout out his (and the Russian's) propaganda. Seems like the last patriotic Republican died August 25, 2018.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 01, 2021, 12:05:39 AM
The subject remains your claim that CNN claimed something specific (that an objection could not be made by a representative and a senator) that was not true. If you're not just casting random aspersions, post a link.

I never said that.

The following is a nonsensical non sequitur then.

I fact checked the claim that a member of the House and a senator can object to the electors and turns out that it fact checks: true.

So....turns out relying on CNN is not so accurate.
Still waiting for a link. I guess you were just signaling your political affiliation and can't actually find anything to support your claim.

Sorry man, I thought you had it bookmarked:

cnn.com (http://cnn.com)

Where is the error regarding objections in Congress during the electoral vote count? My guess is looking more and more likely to be correct.

Ok, well I guess we can change the subject back to the other fake news that a member of the house and a senator can not, supposedly, object to the electors.  According to Tubesock.

"Regardless of what people say about or to me, I WILL NEVER BE SILENCED WITH THE TRUTH IN MY HANDS! The truth will set all free from the bonds of lies. ... it is given freely to all who listen." -Anonymous
While I like to keep things light, lately I have found my self and others having a lack of maturity and vision. A thread was closed because of this. Let's keep things civil and lively!
--------------------
The Left is in Despair, their killing game is almost over:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/mathematician-bobby-piton-finds-500000-unique-last-names-pennsylvania-sophisticated-state-actor-able-optimize-desired-outcome/

Bobby Piton, the mathematician who testified at the Arizona voter fraud hearing dropped a bombshell this weekend. Piton revealed this weekend that he examined just over 9 million records in Pennsylvania and has identified 521,879 unique last names. In other words, these people have no parents, siblings, aunts, uncles or cousins who share the same last name (phantom voters). Pennsylvania has 695,430 Fewer People in the top 1000 Last Names. Bobby Piton found that there were fewer people with common surnames such as Smith, Jackson, Johnson. Bobby Piton essentially discovered where those 695,000+ illegal ballots came from in Pennsylvania. President Trump was ahead of Joe Biden by over 700,000 votes on election night in Pennsylvania and within a few days after the election, hundreds of thousands of ballots appeared for Joe Biden. Between 695,000 to 958,000 voters just got up and vanished out of Pennsylvania! Based on Piton’s findings, it appears that a centralized actor was calling the shots. Bobby Piton says a sophisticated State Actor was able to optimize a desired outcome for both the state of  Georgia and Pennsylvania.


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/evidence-foreign-influence-2020-election-nevada-secretary-state-caught-sending-voter-data-list-pakistani-firm-linked-isi/

Catherine Engelbrecht is the Founder and President of True The Vote the nation’s largest voters’ rights group. In November True the Vote wrote the Nevada Secretary of State for the eligible voter list report. When the Secretary of State responded True the Vote was shocked to see that waqas@kavtech.net was cc’ed. True the Vote later wrote the Assistant Attorney General for National Security John C. Demers about the date breach. The letter obtained exclusively by Breitbart News that when the email arrived, “I was shocked to see the inclusion of another email address in the CC line.” https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/static/source/rev-8b632d2/wp-content/uploads/engelbrecht-1-666x479.jpg
https://twitter.com/PatrickByrne/status/1343564483583766530

Whats next?
Amazingly, the Electoral College vote can be challenged under federal law and the United States Constitution. Republican electors in seven contested states cast alternate votes for Donald Trump to keep their legal options open. State legislatures retain their constitutional authority to offer alternative slates of electors. And Congress is the ultimate arbiter of the race since the ballot count can be contested during the joint session on January 6. If Brooks and one Senator object to certain state elector slates, then all bets are off. On January 6, Republicans may control the Senate and have strength in the House, just one Senator could step up and begin to change the course of history!
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/23/fitton-hope-for-a-failed-election/
https://electionwiz.com/2020/12/28/mo-brooks-dozens-in-the-house-will-sponsor-objections-to-biden-video/

Republican Texas Rep. Louie Gohmert and a group of other GOP figures filed a lawsuit Sunday against Vice President Mike Pence in an effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election. The lawsuit focuses on Pence, who will oversee the upcoming Jan. 6 meeting of Congress to count states’ electoral votes and finalize President-elect Joe Biden’s victory over President Donald Trump: https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/28/louie-gohmert-republicans-sue-mike-pence-overturn-presidential-election-biden-kelli-ward/

This could mean TREASON:
https://twitter.com/Lrihendry/status/1343550784286371841

None of this is true but thanks for sharing I guess.

Also, when was your diagnosis of serious mental illness and what meds are you on?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

How disingenuous!

Your memory hole is active, I see...  ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 01, 2021, 01:45:03 PM
Whats next?
Amazingly, the Electoral College vote can be challenged under federal law and the United States Constitution. Republican electors in seven contested states cast alternate votes for Donald Trump to keep their legal options open. State legislatures retain their constitutional authority to offer alternative slates of electors. And Congress is the ultimate arbiter of the race since the ballot count can be contested during the joint session on January 6. If Brooks and one Senator object to certain state elector slates, then all bets are off. On January 6, Republicans may control the Senate and have strength in the House, just one Senator could step up and begin to change the course of history!
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/23/fitton-hope-for-a-failed-election/
https://electionwiz.com/2020/12/28/mo-brooks-dozens-in-the-house-will-sponsor-objections-to-biden-video/
witter.com/Lrihendry/status/1343550784286371841

None of this is true but thanks for sharing I guess.

Also, when was your diagnosis of serious mental illness and what meds are you on?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

How disingenuous!

Your memory hole is active, I see...  ;D

Tubesock Army engaged in hyperbole; your expectation that this will have any effect on the outcome is not correct, though. How does any of this imply a failure in CNN reporting?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 01, 2021, 02:10:37 PM
No mercy for these fucking traitors. They have betrayed our sacred Republic, and should be damned. Damn them all to the fire!
Exactly. Trump and all his toadies deserve no mercy.

Greetings!

Yeah? You think so?
Yeah, pretty much. I've been shocked at the contempt shown for our republic and method of government by the cowards who kowtow to Trump and suck down and spout out his (and the Russian's) propaganda. Seems like the last patriotic Republican died August 25, 2018.

I feel the same way about Biden and his sucking of CCP cock. The Democrats died in 2016 when they closed ranks around Hilary and showed they were more interested in preserving their status quo than representing the American people.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on January 01, 2021, 02:38:48 PM
19 days until all this bullshit becomes just a weird footnote in history
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 01, 2021, 02:59:11 PM
No mercy for these fucking traitors. They have betrayed our sacred Republic, and should be damned. Damn them all to the fire!
Exactly. Trump and all his toadies deserve no mercy.

Greetings!

Yeah? You think so?
Yeah, pretty much. I've been shocked at the contempt shown for our republic and method of government by the cowards who kowtow to Trump and suck down and spout out his (and the Russian's) propaganda. Seems like the last patriotic Republican died August 25, 2018.

Imagine believing the Russia conspiracy theory in 2020, or that either party has ever served the American public in our lifetime.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 01, 2021, 04:46:37 PM
No mercy for these fucking traitors. They have betrayed our sacred Republic, and should be damned. Damn them all to the fire!
Exactly. Trump and all his toadies deserve no mercy.

Greetings!

Yeah? You think so?
Yeah, pretty much. I've been shocked at the contempt shown for our republic and method of government by the cowards who kowtow to Trump and suck down and spout out his (and the Russian's) propaganda. Seems like the last patriotic Republican died August 25, 2018.

Imagine believing the Russia conspiracy theory in 2020, or that either party has ever served the American public in our lifetime.

Imagine believing the Russia conspiracy nonsense and then insisting this election was different because their guy won. Dunno if Bren's done that, but watching the media push that narrative has been amusing as hell.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 01, 2021, 05:00:21 PM
The subject remains your claim that CNN claimed something specific (that an objection could not be made by a representative and a senator) that was not true. If you're not just casting random aspersions, post a link.

I never said that.

The following is a nonsensical non sequitur then.

I fact checked the claim that a member of the House and a senator can object to the electors and turns out that it fact checks: true.

So....turns out relying on CNN is not so accurate.

Where did I say that "CNN claimed something specific"?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 01, 2021, 05:05:11 PM
No mercy for these fucking traitors. They have betrayed our sacred Republic, and should be damned. Damn them all to the fire!
Exactly. Trump and all his toadies deserve no mercy.

Greetings!

Yeah? You think so?
Yeah, pretty much. I've been shocked at the contempt shown for our republic and method of government by the cowards who kowtow to Trump and suck down and spout out his (and the Russian's) propaganda. Seems like the last patriotic Republican died August 25, 2018.

Imagine believing the Russia conspiracy theory in 2020, or that either party has ever served the American public in our lifetime.

Imagine believing the Russia conspiracy nonsense and then insisting this election was different because their guy won. Dunno if Bren's done that, but watching the media push that narrative has been amusing as hell.

Obviously, there's nothing suspicious about a senile old man who can't speak straight half the time and barely campaigned getting the most votes of any president in history.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on January 01, 2021, 05:41:43 PM
No mercy for these fucking traitors. They have betrayed our sacred Republic, and should be damned. Damn them all to the fire!
Exactly. Trump and all his toadies deserve no mercy.

Greetings!

Yeah? You think so?
Yeah, pretty much. I've been shocked at the contempt shown for our republic and method of government by the cowards who kowtow to Trump and suck down and spout out his (and the Russian's) propaganda. Seems like the last patriotic Republican died August 25, 2018.

Imagine believing the Russia conspiracy theory in 2020, or that either party has ever served the American public in our lifetime.

Imagine believing the Russia conspiracy nonsense and then insisting this election was different because their guy won. Dunno if Bren's done that, but watching the media push that narrative has been amusing as hell.

Obviously, there's nothing suspicious about a senile old man who can't speak straight half the time and barely campaigned getting the most votes of any president in history.
In other news, Trump just broke Obama's 12 year streak as the most admired man in America.
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/29/951186528/gallup-poll-president-trump-and-michelle-obama-most-admired-man-and-woman-in-ame
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 01, 2021, 05:46:35 PM
No mercy for these fucking traitors. They have betrayed our sacred Republic, and should be damned. Damn them all to the fire!
Exactly. Trump and all his toadies deserve no mercy.

Greetings!

Yeah? You think so?
Yeah, pretty much. I've been shocked at the contempt shown for our republic and method of government by the cowards who kowtow to Trump and suck down and spout out his (and the Russian's) propaganda. Seems like the last patriotic Republican died August 25, 2018.

Imagine believing the Russia conspiracy theory in 2020, or that either party has ever served the American public in our lifetime.

Imagine believing the Russia conspiracy nonsense and then insisting this election was different because their guy won. Dunno if Bren's done that, but watching the media push that narrative has been amusing as hell.

Obviously, there's nothing suspicious about a senile old man who can't speak straight half the time and barely campaigned getting the most votes of any president in history.
Which point do you find the most suspicious?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 01, 2021, 07:12:37 PM
19 days until all this bullshit becomes just a weird footnote in history
Imagine believing all us dirty right of center types will just vanish into oblivion come 1/20.

By all means, keep doing so.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 01, 2021, 07:23:39 PM
No mercy for these fucking traitors. They have betrayed our sacred Republic, and should be damned. Damn them all to the fire!
Exactly. Trump and all his toadies deserve no mercy.

Greetings!

Yeah? You think so?
Yeah, pretty much. I've been shocked at the contempt shown for our republic and method of government by the cowards who kowtow to Trump and suck down and spout out his (and the Russian's) propaganda. Seems like the last patriotic Republican died August 25, 2018.

Imagine believing the Russia conspiracy theory in 2020, or that either party has ever served the American public in our lifetime.

Imagine believing the Russia conspiracy nonsense and then insisting this election was different because their guy won. Dunno if Bren's done that, but watching the media push that narrative has been amusing as hell.

Obviously, there's nothing suspicious about a senile old man who can't speak straight half the time and barely campaigned getting the most votes of any president in history.

Please have some respect. The man's still President until the 20th.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 01, 2021, 08:21:09 PM
Please have some respect. The man's still President until the 20th.

Thank you folks, he will be here all week.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 01, 2021, 08:24:42 PM
Please have some respect. The man's still President until the 20th.

Thank you folks, he will be here all week.
Like the man said, he will be here until January 20th.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 01, 2021, 10:02:09 PM
I hereby predict 2021 as:
THE YEAR OF LOVE!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 01, 2021, 10:04:41 PM
Whats next?
Amazingly, the Electoral College vote can be challenged under federal law and the United States Constitution. Republican electors in seven contested states cast alternate votes for Donald Trump to keep their legal options open. State legislatures retain their constitutional authority to offer alternative slates of electors. And Congress is the ultimate arbiter of the race since the ballot count can be contested during the joint session on January 6. If Brooks and one Senator object to certain state elector slates, then all bets are off. On January 6, Republicans may control the Senate and have strength in the House, just one Senator could step up and begin to change the course of history!
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/23/fitton-hope-for-a-failed-election/
https://electionwiz.com/2020/12/28/mo-brooks-dozens-in-the-house-will-sponsor-objections-to-biden-video/
witter.com/Lrihendry/status/1343550784286371841

None of this is true but thanks for sharing I guess.

Also, when was your diagnosis of serious mental illness and what meds are you on?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

How disingenuous!

Your memory hole is active, I see...  ;D

Tubesock Army engaged in hyperbole; your expectation that this will have any effect on the outcome is not correct, though. How does any of this imply a failure in CNN reporting?
I love you rawma. CNN doesn't.
Prove me wrong!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Slipshot762 on January 01, 2021, 10:10:44 PM


nothing new under the sun
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 01, 2021, 10:24:55 PM

Tubesock Army engaged in hyperbole; your expectation that this will have any effect on the outcome is not correct, though. How does any of this imply a failure in CNN reporting?

He shouldn’t. He’s not good at it which is most likely due to his heavy intake of CNN.

Link: CNN
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 01, 2021, 11:24:46 PM


nothing new under the sun
(http://nirguna.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Putin-clapping-gif-Imgur-v5Mp.gif)
As I have been banned from twitter for being a russian bot, I SALUTE YOU SIR! for finding that which I have been preaching!
(now when it comes to being here... I'm just a plain ol' nahtsee conspiracy theorist with ties to Qanon! but, wuteva. GOOD JOB!)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on January 02, 2021, 03:41:08 AM
Obviously, there's nothing suspicious about a senile old man who can't speak straight half the time and barely campaigned getting the most votes of any president in history.

How dare you say that about Ronald Reagan!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Elfdart on January 02, 2021, 03:58:46 AM
If you charge a 5% fee on stock, commodity, or bond transactions there will be fewer transactions. A lot fewer. Not to mention increasing taxes by 50% and hobbling the capital sector will have many other repercussions.

If the number of transactions is only half the 2008 total, there would still be an extra trillion dollars in the treasury.

Yet you claimed that 5% would raise $2 trillion/year, which is roughly half the yearly revenue of the entire federal government, from all types of taxes.

You can't have it both ways. If it's an insignificant sales tax, then it won't make a dent in the debt. If it can make a dent in the debt, then it's a 50% increase in all taxes.

Insignificant for the person paying the fee, numbnuts.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on January 02, 2021, 08:41:35 AM
Yet you claimed that 5% would raise $2 trillion/year, which is roughly half the yearly revenue of the entire federal government, from all types of taxes.

You can't have it both ways. If it's an insignificant sales tax, then it won't make a dent in the debt. If it can make a dent in the debt, then it's a 50% increase in all taxes.

Insignificant for the person paying the fee, numbnuts.
"It's only a flesh wound!"
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 02, 2021, 01:06:21 PM
The subject remains your claim that CNN claimed something specific (that an objection could not be made by a representative and a senator) that was not true. If you're not just casting random aspersions, post a link.

I never said that.

The following is a nonsensical non sequitur then.

I fact checked the claim that a member of the House and a senator can object to the electors and turns out that it fact checks: true.

So....turns out relying on CNN is not so accurate.

Where did I say that "CNN claimed something specific"?

What was the reliance on CNN then? Why claim it's inaccurate if there was nothing specific related to what you fact checked? Non sequitur or nonsense or both?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on January 02, 2021, 03:57:40 PM
I've been shocked at the contempt shown for our republic and method of government by the cowards who kowtow to Trump and suck down and spout out his (and the Russian's) propaganda. Seems like the last patriotic Republican died August 25, 2018.

I feel the same way about Biden and his sucking of CCP cock. The Democrats died in 2016 when they closed ranks around Hilary and showed they were more interested in preserving their status quo than representing the American people.
And Hillary is terrible because she is a lizard-faced alien who heads the Pizza Hut child pornography ring? Or did you have another reason? It's hard keeping up with all the many conspiracies and all of Q's "revelations." Also, I've no idea what CCP is supposed to mean. My first thought was the old CCCP, but you're one C short and that would make it Trump and Putin, so you probably mean something else.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 02, 2021, 04:25:46 PM
I've been shocked at the contempt shown for our republic and method of government by the cowards who kowtow to Trump and suck down and spout out his (and the Russian's) propaganda. Seems like the last patriotic Republican died August 25, 2018.

I feel the same way about Biden and his sucking of CCP cock. The Democrats died in 2016 when they closed ranks around Hilary and showed they were more interested in preserving their status quo than representing the American people.
And Hillary is terrible because she is a lizard-faced alien who heads the Pizza Hut child pornography ring? Or did you have another reason? It's hard keeping up with all the many conspiracies and all of Q's "revelations." Also, I've no idea what CCP is supposed to mean. My first thought was the old CCCP, but you're one C short and that would make it Trump and Putin, so you probably mean something else.

Greetings!

Well, besides a trainload of philosophical and ideological problems and flaws--ranging from an alignment with globalism, corporate corruption and Marxism, Hillary is terrible because she's a lying, corrupt cunt that maintained a private server transferring classified government data and communications--which makes her a criminal, and a felon--crimes that if YOU or I had committed, would have us certainly arrested, prosecuted, and sent to federal prison. Next, Hillary facilitated the sale and transfer of Uranium worth billions of dollars to Russia. Next, Hillary has been a totally corrupt slug for facilitating the sale of favours by others--officials, ambassadors, and so on--in exchange for immense donations to the Clinton Foundation. Then, of course, there is her infamous handling and supervision of the whole Benghazi scandal--where Americans were abandoned and left to die--all on her watch.

Anyone that seeks to defend Hillary should be aware of how much of an absolutely corrupt and treasonous bitch she is. She is a terrible and disgusting woman, and a horrible politician and official, in any capacity.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 02, 2021, 04:47:42 PM
I've been shocked at the contempt shown for our republic and method of government by the cowards who kowtow to Trump and suck down and spout out his (and the Russian's) propaganda. Seems like the last patriotic Republican died August 25, 2018.

I feel the same way about Biden and his sucking of CCP cock. The Democrats died in 2016 when they closed ranks around Hilary and showed they were more interested in preserving their status quo than representing the American people.
And Hillary is terrible because she is a lizard-faced alien who heads the Pizza Hut child pornography ring? Or did you have another reason? It's hard keeping up with all the many conspiracies and all of Q's "revelations." Also, I've no idea what CCP is supposed to mean. My first thought was the old CCCP, but you're one C short and that would make it Trump and Putin, so you probably mean something else.

Hilary is terrible because she's a continuation of the Democrat elite establishment that feels public office is owed to them. You could hear it in her incredulity that Trump won. Hilary is terrible because the DNC squashed Bernie Sanders in order to put their pet politican forward as presidential candidate. (Not that I'm a fan of Bernie) Hilary is everything wrong with the Democrats. Talking progressive out one end, and perpetuating their power base out the other.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/12/10/audio-reveals-heated-exchange-between-biden-and-black-leaders-over-cabinet-police-reform/?sh=45a1c43a5f36

And CCP means Chinese Communist Party. You know, the foreign power that controls Biden. Just like Russia controls Trump, right?

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 02, 2021, 05:17:44 PM
What amazes me is how the Democrats can look at themselves in the mirror after screwing Bernie repeatedly, but somehow they're the 'progressive' party.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 02, 2021, 05:46:12 PM
I've been shocked at the contempt shown for our republic and method of government by the cowards who kowtow to Trump and suck down and spout out his (and the Russian's) propaganda. Seems like the last patriotic Republican died August 25, 2018.

I feel the same way about Biden and his sucking of CCP cock. The Democrats died in 2016 when they closed ranks around Hilary and showed they were more interested in preserving their status quo than representing the American people.
And Hillary is terrible because she is a lizard-faced alien who heads the Pizza Hut child pornography ring? Or did you have another reason? It's hard keeping up with all the many conspiracies and all of Q's "revelations." Also, I've no idea what CCP is supposed to mean. My first thought was the old CCCP, but you're one C short and that would make it Trump and Putin, so you probably mean something else.

Greetings!

Well, besides a trainload of philosophical and ideological problems and flaws--ranging from an alignment with globalism, corporate corruption and Marxism, Hillary is terrible because she's a lying, corrupt cunt that maintained a private server transferring classified government data and communications--which makes her a criminal, and a felon--crimes that if YOU or I had committed, would have us certainly arrested, prosecuted, and sent to federal prison. Next, Hillary facilitated the sale and transfer of Uranium worth billions of dollars to Russia. Next, Hillary has been a totally corrupt slug for facilitating the sale of favours by others--officials, ambassadors, and so on--in exchange for immense donations to the Clinton Foundation. Then, of course, there is her infamous handling and supervision of the whole Benghazi scandal--where Americans were abandoned and left to die--all on her watch.

Anyone that seeks to defend Hillary should be aware of how much of an absolutely corrupt and treasonous bitch she is. She is a terrible and disgusting woman, and a horrible politician and official, in any capacity.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

My favorite part is where Hillary facilitated the sale of Uranium to Russia, and she and her husband Bill has been dealing and trading favors with Russia (as well as foreign officials from all around the globe) for decades now--most of it a matter of public record, not even speculation--but Trump is somehow a Russian asset cuz a random guy the Clintons payed to write a now largely discredited document said so.

And CCP means Chinese Communist Party. You know, the foreign power that controls Biden. Just like Russia controls Trump, right?

You gotta forgive Bren, he's obviously widely uninformed on these topics, but still wants to contribute on this topic to throw dirt at a straw version of the people he's opposing, cuz he's not even informed about WTF they actually believe.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 02, 2021, 05:59:24 PM
And Hillary is terrible because she is a lizard-faced alien who heads the Pizza Hut child pornography ring? Or did you have another reason? It's hard keeping up with all the many conspiracies and all of Q's "revelations." Also, I've no idea what CCP is supposed to mean. My first thought was the old CCCP, but you're one C short and that would make it Trump and Putin, so you probably mean something else.

You dont know the CCP?  The Chinese Communist Party?  The ones who make Chinese Wuhan Flu?  Not ringing any bells?  Running out of question marks?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 02, 2021, 06:29:16 PM
The subject remains your claim that CNN claimed something specific (that an objection could not be made by a representative and a senator) that was not true. If you're not just casting random aspersions, post a link.

I never said that.

The following is a nonsensical non sequitur then.

I fact checked the claim that a member of the House and a senator can object to the electors and turns out that it fact checks: true.

So....turns out relying on CNN is not so accurate.

Where did I say that "CNN claimed something specific"?

What was the reliance on CNN then? Why claim it's inaccurate if there was nothing specific related to what you fact checked? Non sequitur or nonsense or both?

I am curious, do you have shares in CNN?  Some kind of finanical incentive?

I was looking for a link on CNN about the riots in Portland the other night but according to them there was no such thing.

Interesting.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 02, 2021, 06:39:47 PM
What amazes me is how the Democrats can look at themselves in the mirror after screwing Bernie repeatedly, but somehow they're the 'progressive' party.
This isn't hard to figure out. The Democrats represent a rather wide range of progressive positions, and some of those positions are only allied by necessity ("enemy of my enemy" thinking, much like the crumbling alliance between Trump and the Republican party). Even so, Bernie goes too far for many of them.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 02, 2021, 10:26:55 PM
Found an interesting article a while back about...

DESPAIR

https://www.wnd.com/2020/11/lefts-propaganda-despair/
"They'll say: "True, your business is dead. Your income is gone. You can't pay your mortgage or your rent. You can't pay off your loans. Things are terrible." They'll try to distract you from the fact that it was their policies that destroyed everything you owned in the first place. And then they'll try to lure you in with their socialist siren song of "universal basic income"; "forgiveness of student loan debt"; mortgage and rent "moratoria"; and "fair housing." (Because "Housing is a right!")
"You can't fix it without us."

Gone is your independence, replaced by the ring in your nose by which they plan to lead you around. You can't vote against them now, because they control everything you have.
That is how a relative handful of people who produce nothing become more powerful than millions of people who produced everything. They, not you, will decide which industries will prosper and which will shut down. They, not you, will decide which enterprises operate, what those enterprises make, how much they can charge, who owns them, what the owners can take from them and what their employees must be paid.

That is the ugly reality hiding behind the left's propaganda of despair."

TRUTH.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 02, 2021, 11:36:56 PM
What was the reliance on CNN then? Why claim it's inaccurate if there was nothing specific related to what you fact checked? Non sequitur or nonsense or both?

I am curious, do you have shares in CNN?  Some kind of finanical incentive?

Nope. If you have some evidence of significant errors by CNN, post links; I would be interested in looking at them.

Quote
I was looking for a link on CNN about the riots in Portland the other night but according to them there was no such thing.

Link to where they say there was no such thing? Or did your search just fail?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 02, 2021, 11:53:51 PM
What amazes me is how the Democrats can look at themselves in the mirror after screwing Bernie repeatedly, but somehow they're the 'progressive' party.

Progressive is clearly a relative thing; in the Senate the Democratic party includes Joe Manchin and Elizabeth Warren (note that Bernie Sanders is an independent despite running in the Democratic primary). In a two-party system, who else would be the progressive party?

I know a few Bernie supporters who were upset over the 2016 primaries; they went on to support Hillary in the general election. They seemed satisfied with last year's process if not the result, though, and Sanders and Biden sought common ground before the election to unify their supporters.

More interesting will be watching the Republican Senators struggling between support for the idea of elections and for Donald Trump this coming Wednesday.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on January 03, 2021, 01:59:28 AM
Let’s get real.  If Bernie was president he would fall in line to maintain the status quo.  If not he’ll be destroyed.  I will say this.  Republicans should expect Democrats to engage in Trump style overreaches of power in the future because blatant hypocrisy has become acceptable. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 03, 2021, 03:58:32 AM
Link to where they say there was no such thing? Or did your search just fail?

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/030/710/dd0.jpg)

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 03, 2021, 05:40:44 PM
Trump calls the Georgia Secretary of State asking for him to find enough votes to swing the state's presidential election, and suddenly nobody here wants to talk about the election?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-insists-he-won-georgia-in-call-with-state-election-official-urges-him-to-find-votes-report
Quote
President Trump insisted that he won the state of Georgia in the 2020 presidential race during a phone call with Georgia’s Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger over the weekend, reportedly urging him to "find" enough votes to reverse the state’s results.
Quote
Raffensperger replied Sunday morning stating: "Respectfully, President Trump: What you’re saying is not true. The truth will come out."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-raffensperger-call-transcript-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/2768e0cc-4ddd-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html
Quote from: Donald Trump
I just want to find 11,780 votes

Quote from: Ryan Germany, the secretary of state’s general counsel
Let me tell you what we are seeing. What we’re seeing is not at all what you’re describing, these are investigators from our office, these are investigators from GBI, and they’re looking and they’re good. And that’s not what they’re seeing. And we’ll keep looking, at all these things.

I guess Trump didn't learn from the Ukraine phone call and subsequent impeachment.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on January 03, 2021, 07:24:32 PM
Well, besides a trainload of philosophical and ideological problems and flaws--ranging from...
The orange fat man has a similar, lengthy list of crimes and a death toll of tens if not hundreds of thousands of Americans, yet you love him and issue vague threats of violence on his behalf. Your embracing of situational ethics is duly noted.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on January 03, 2021, 07:27:14 PM
You dont know the CCP?  The Chinese Communist Party?
Not personally no.

To be fair, I don't personally know any Russian Mafia members or ex-KGB dictators either.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on January 03, 2021, 07:30:40 PM
Trump calls the Georgia Secretary of State asking for him to find enough votes to swing the state's presidential election, and suddenly nobody here wants to talk about the election?
Situational ethics. Wrecking our Republic doesn't matter to if it helps their guy to stay in power.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 03, 2021, 08:28:52 PM
Well, besides a trainload of philosophical and ideological problems and flaws--ranging from...
The orange fat man has a similar, lengthy list of crimes and a death toll of tens if not hundreds of thousands of Americans, yet you love him and issue vague threats of violence on his behalf. Your embracing of situational ethics is duly noted.

I am going to say something that will probably make you angry.  Trump saved over 330 million American lives.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 03, 2021, 08:35:08 PM
Well, besides a trainload of philosophical and ideological problems and flaws--ranging from...
The orange fat man has a similar, lengthy list of crimes and a death toll of tens if not hundreds of thousands of Americans, yet you love him and issue vague threats of violence on his behalf. Your embracing of situational ethics is duly noted.

I am going to say something that will probably make you angry.  Trump saved over 330 million American lives.
Keep on posting in your sarcastic black type.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on January 03, 2021, 09:51:04 PM
Trump calls the Georgia Secretary of State asking for him to find enough votes to swing the state's presidential election, and suddenly nobody here wants to talk about the election

We’ve entered the Treason story arc of Trump the Series.  This show just keeps getting better doesn’t it?  I’m interested what’s coming up for him post presidency.  There has to be a reason he’s so desperate to stay in power.  I have a feeling we’re in for a wild ride. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on January 03, 2021, 11:22:33 PM
Trump calls the Georgia Secretary of State asking for him to find enough votes to swing the state's presidential election, and suddenly nobody here wants to talk about the election?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-insists-he-won-georgia-in-call-with-state-election-official-urges-him-to-find-votes-report
Quote
President Trump insisted that he won the state of Georgia in the 2020 presidential race during a phone call with Georgia’s Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger over the weekend, reportedly urging him to "find" enough votes to reverse the state’s results.
Quote
Raffensperger replied Sunday morning stating: "Respectfully, President Trump: What you’re saying is not true. The truth will come out."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-raffensperger-call-transcript-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/2768e0cc-4ddd-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html
Quote from: Donald Trump
I just want to find 11,780 votes

Quote from: Ryan Germany, the secretary of state’s general counsel
Let me tell you what we are seeing. What we’re seeing is not at all what you’re describing, these are investigators from our office, these are investigators from GBI, and they’re looking and they’re good. And that’s not what they’re seeing. And we’ll keep looking, at all these things.

I guess Trump didn't learn from the Ukraine phone call and subsequent impeachment.

I tried to play devil's advocate on that one and I just can't. There is no defense to what he did. He's very clearly threatening the guy to cheat on his behalf and "find" the votes. And there is no question if a Democrat had said that, if Biden had made that phone call and said the exact words Trump said during that call, all the "The election was stolen" guys here supporting Trump would be outraged.

Listening to it is even worse than reading it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on January 03, 2021, 11:50:09 PM
I am going to say something that will probably make you angry.  Trump saved over 330 million American lives.
You can "say" whatever crazy shit you want. Lot's of folks in this thread have done so. Most of that shit doesn't make me mad. Sad and worried about my country and disappointed in many of it's citizens, but not especially mad.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Slipshot762 on January 03, 2021, 11:56:48 PM


dementia speaks.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 04, 2021, 12:28:16 AM
DONT SAY I DID NOT WARN YOU ALL:
-------------------------------------------------------
https://twitter.com/BLUEPRINT_Q/status/1345507539576905728

I do it because I love you all.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 04, 2021, 02:58:46 AM
DONT SAY I DID NOT WARN YOU ALL:
-------------------------------------------------------
https://twitter.com/BLUEPRINT_Q/status/1345507539576905728

I do it because I love you all.

Greetings!

Damn straight! It's about time the President has some people around him that are dedicated and loyal! Just like the President calling the Georgia GOP Secretary of State and asking about votes. I hope the President calls every damn one of them, demanding why they aren't doing investigations, get rid of all the fraud votes, and only count legal votes! And find the TRUMP votes that the fucking lying, cheating Democrats have destroyed, sought to throw away, or hide them. Geesus, the President needs to demand these fucking RINOS and weak Republican officials do their fucking jobs.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 04, 2021, 08:37:40 AM
dementia speaks.

The Biden campaign responded ably to the 60+ cases brought by Trump and his allies, defeating all those attempts to undermine democracy.

Pretty funny that a senile guy handed Trump such stinging defeats in the debates. Maybe Trump is senile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iks184i9FOI
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on January 04, 2021, 11:17:05 AM
DONT SAY I DID NOT WARN YOU ALL:
-------------------------------------------------------
https://twitter.com/BLUEPRINT_Q/status/1345507539576905728

I do it because I love you all.

Greetings!

Damn straight! It's about time the President has some people around him that are dedicated and loyal! Just like the President calling the Georgia GOP Secretary of State and asking about votes. I hope the President calls every damn one of them, demanding why they aren't doing investigations, get rid of all the fraud votes, and only count legal votes! And find the TRUMP votes that the fucking lying, cheating Democrats have destroyed, sought to throw away, or hide them. Geesus, the President needs to demand these fucking RINOS and weak Republican officials do their fucking jobs.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

My man, he threatened them to "find" a specific number of votes to make him win. That's not asking him to do an investigation. He was not "asking" about votes. You cannot listen to that audio, which is authentic and all there and all the context for everyone to hear, and pretend what he said is how you characterized it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 04, 2021, 11:24:34 AM
DONT SAY I DID NOT WARN YOU ALL:
-------------------------------------------------------
https://twitter.com/BLUEPRINT_Q/status/1345507539576905728

I do it because I love you all.

Greetings!

Damn straight! It's about time the President has some people around him that are dedicated and loyal! Just like the President calling the Georgia GOP Secretary of State and asking about votes. I hope the President calls every damn one of them, demanding why they aren't doing investigations, get rid of all the fraud votes, and only count legal votes! And find the TRUMP votes that the fucking lying, cheating Democrats have destroyed, sought to throw away, or hide them. Geesus, the President needs to demand these fucking RINOS and weak Republican officials do their fucking jobs.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

My man, he threatened them to "find" a specific number of votes to make him win. That's not asking him to do an investigation. He was not "asking" about votes. You cannot listen to that audio, which is authentic and all there and all the context for everyone to hear, and pretend what he said is how you characterized it.
You forget, a SHARK has to keep the flow of conspiracy-rich waters moving over his gills or he dies, so expect him to keep swimming down whatever improbable paths those waters go, because that's all he's got left.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 04, 2021, 12:09:39 PM
DONT SAY I DID NOT WARN YOU ALL:
-------------------------------------------------------
https://twitter.com/BLUEPRINT_Q/status/1345507539576905728

I do it because I love you all.

Greetings!

Damn straight! It's about time the President has some people around him that are dedicated and loyal! Just like the President calling the Georgia GOP Secretary of State and asking about votes. I hope the President calls every damn one of them, demanding why they aren't doing investigations, get rid of all the fraud votes, and only count legal votes! And find the TRUMP votes that the fucking lying, cheating Democrats have destroyed, sought to throw away, or hide them. Geesus, the President needs to demand these fucking RINOS and weak Republican officials do their fucking jobs.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

My man, he threatened them to "find" a specific number of votes to make him win. That's not asking him to do an investigation. He was not "asking" about votes. You cannot listen to that audio, which is authentic and all there and all the context for everyone to hear, and pretend what he said is how you characterized it.
You forget, a SHARK has to keep the flow of conspiracy-rich waters moving over his gills or he dies, so expect him to keep swimming down whatever improbable paths those waters go, because that's all he's got left.

Greetings!

I think that the Georgia Secretary of State is a jello-filled, corrupt fucking RINO, just like Georgia's worthless Governor. They all need to be thrown the fuck out and replaced. They are corrupt swamp beasts! They have lied, and squirmed, and been negligent in doing their duties. I don't trust them, or the various election officials in Georgia. I don't believe a damned thing that the MSM claims, as they are totally corrupt and lying frauds. The MSM twists and frames everything to favour Leftists and Democrats, and are always working against President Trump, which they have been entirely devoted against since 2016.

The 2020 election ha been fraudulent and corrupt.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: GameDaddy on January 04, 2021, 12:29:30 PM
Trump calls the Georgia Secretary of State asking for him to find enough votes to swing the state's presidential election, and suddenly nobody here wants to talk about the election

We’ve entered the Treason story arc of Trump the Series.  This show just keeps getting better doesn’t it?  I’m interested what’s coming up for him post presidency.  There has to be a reason he’s so desperate to stay in power.  I have a feeling we’re in for a wild ride.

Might have something to do with the 400 Mill he owes the Germans/Russians...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Garry G on January 04, 2021, 12:30:30 PM
I don't know, the tape of Trump seems to be the most convincing evidence of attempted electoral fraud that's come up yet. He's trying to cajole somebody into making up votes.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 04, 2021, 01:13:38 PM
I don't know, the tape of Trump seems to be the most convincing evidence of attempted electoral fraud that's come up yet. He's trying to cajole somebody into making up votes.

You don't know?

If a person supports Trump, it was a gaffe. He thinks he won the election, and wants to find the votes to prove it.
If a person hates Trump, it's more proof he's a whiny loser who wants to cheat.

Like Biden, saying he likes Obama because he's the first clean black candidate.

"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
If you're a Biden supporter, how do you even start to defend that? You call it a gaffe and move on, because he's "your guy".
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on January 04, 2021, 01:44:53 PM
I don't know, the tape of Trump seems to be the most convincing evidence of attempted electoral fraud that's come up yet. He's trying to cajole somebody into making up votes.

You don't know?

If a person supports Trump, it was a gaffe. He thinks he won the election, and wants to find the votes to prove it.
If a person hates Trump, it's more proof he's a whiny loser who wants to cheat.

Like Biden, saying he likes Obama because he's the first clean black candidate.

"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
If you're a Biden supporter, how do you even start to defend that? You call it a gaffe and move on, because he's "your guy".

This pretty much sums up any debate going on anywhere at this point.

....not to mention stories about both that they can be, well, a bit "rapey" shall we say.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on January 04, 2021, 02:32:53 PM
DONT SAY I DID NOT WARN YOU ALL:
-------------------------------------------------------
https://twitter.com/BLUEPRINT_Q/status/1345507539576905728

I do it because I love you all.

Greetings!

Damn straight! It's about time the President has some people around him that are dedicated and loyal! Just like the President calling the Georgia GOP Secretary of State and asking about votes. I hope the President calls every damn one of them, demanding why they aren't doing investigations, get rid of all the fraud votes, and only count legal votes! And find the TRUMP votes that the fucking lying, cheating Democrats have destroyed, sought to throw away, or hide them. Geesus, the President needs to demand these fucking RINOS and weak Republican officials do their fucking jobs.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

My man, he threatened them to "find" a specific number of votes to make him win. That's not asking him to do an investigation. He was not "asking" about votes. You cannot listen to that audio, which is authentic and all there and all the context for everyone to hear, and pretend what he said is how you characterized it.
You forget, a SHARK has to keep the flow of conspiracy-rich waters moving over his gills or he dies, so expect him to keep swimming down whatever improbable paths those waters go, because that's all he's got left.

Greetings!

I think that the Georgia Secretary of State is a jello-filled, corrupt fucking RINO, just like Georgia's worthless Governor. They all need to be thrown the fuck out and replaced. They are corrupt swamp beasts! They have lied, and squirmed, and been negligent in doing their duties. I don't trust them, or the various election officials in Georgia. I don't believe a damned thing that the MSM claims, as they are totally corrupt and lying frauds. The MSM twists and frames everything to favour Leftists and Democrats, and are always working against President Trump, which they have been entirely devoted against since 2016.

The 2020 election ha been fraudulent and corrupt.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

SHARK, I am serious when i say this. No fucking around, no internet tough guy nonsense, not trying to "win" an argument. If you listen to the recording of Trump's conversation, I do not think you can honestly walk away and say Trump's behavior was moral or ethical. I just don't. So, please, listen to it. The whole thing, so you get all the context. You will hear Trump rationally lay out his case for why he thinks he did win in Georgia and what the claims are about fraud and how it should be handled, and then responses, and then Trump crosses the line into unethical things. Listen to it yourself and you decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW_Bdf_jGaA
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 04, 2021, 03:28:57 PM
DONT SAY I DID NOT WARN YOU ALL:
-------------------------------------------------------
https://twitter.com/BLUEPRINT_Q/status/1345507539576905728

I do it because I love you all.

Greetings!

Damn straight! It's about time the President has some people around him that are dedicated and loyal! Just like the President calling the Georgia GOP Secretary of State and asking about votes. I hope the President calls every damn one of them, demanding why they aren't doing investigations, get rid of all the fraud votes, and only count legal votes! And find the TRUMP votes that the fucking lying, cheating Democrats have destroyed, sought to throw away, or hide them. Geesus, the President needs to demand these fucking RINOS and weak Republican officials do their fucking jobs.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

My man, he threatened them to "find" a specific number of votes to make him win. That's not asking him to do an investigation. He was not "asking" about votes. You cannot listen to that audio, which is authentic and all there and all the context for everyone to hear, and pretend what he said is how you characterized it.
You forget, a SHARK has to keep the flow of conspiracy-rich waters moving over his gills or he dies, so expect him to keep swimming down whatever improbable paths those waters go, because that's all he's got left.

Greetings!

I think that the Georgia Secretary of State is a jello-filled, corrupt fucking RINO, just like Georgia's worthless Governor. They all need to be thrown the fuck out and replaced. They are corrupt swamp beasts! They have lied, and squirmed, and been negligent in doing their duties. I don't trust them, or the various election officials in Georgia. I don't believe a damned thing that the MSM claims, as they are totally corrupt and lying frauds. The MSM twists and frames everything to favour Leftists and Democrats, and are always working against President Trump, which they have been entirely devoted against since 2016.

The 2020 election ha been fraudulent and corrupt.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

SHARK, I am serious when i say this. No fucking around, no internet tough guy nonsense, not trying to "win" an argument. If you listen to the recording of Trump's conversation, I do not think you can honestly walk away and say Trump's behavior was moral or ethical. I just don't. So, please, listen to it. The whole thing, so you get all the context. You will hear Trump rationally lay out his case for why he thinks he did win in Georgia and what the claims are about fraud and how it should be handled, and then responses, and then Trump crosses the line into unethical things. Listen to it yourself and you decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW_Bdf_jGaA

Greetings!

Well, Mistwell, I listened to the hour long video phone call. Sec State Brad seems to merely answer everything the President says about the fraud, the processes, oversight problems and so on with "I don't agree, that isn't what our data has told us, and no, we can't share internal data and sources with you". More talking, blah, blah, blah, our lawyers should meet tomorrow or in the next 24 to 48 hours. President Trump talks about how he won the election fair and square, and how he knows he has the election won by plenty of votes, but only needs 11,700 and such. Then the other guy says for the President, we have data that shows 24,000 were dead voters and so on, just auditing and getting rid of those would be more than sufficient numbers that corresponds with President Trump's victory. Sec State Brad disagrees, saying his data doesn't show that many dead voter or otherwise fraudulent voters, but says he can't share that internal data, blah, blah, blah. President Trump talks about how the voters hate the Governor and the Sec State, and future election aren't going to go well, and Republican voters may not vote in the coming election, and the reputation of the state for having a fair and open election is in question. There's no threats against Sec State Brad, and the entire conversation doesn't seem in any way unethical or problematic to me, just a fairly normal political discussion with Sec State Brad that doesn't seem to want to search for the truth, nor does he seem to want to fight corruption or charges of fraud, and seems definitely like he has something to hide, and he is dragging his feet, obstructing, and attempting to stonewall from actually doing his job in a responsible and honest manner.

So, yeah, I'm not seeing what the crying and hysteria is about, but I'm not surprised that the MSM seeks to spin everything as some nefarious plot by President Trump, and yet another terrifying example of President Trump being an autocrat or tyrant. The MSM has been doing this nonsense every week now for the last four years, so it is just more of the same BS, sad to say. Trump could fart and the MSM would REEE that the Orange Man Bad is trying to gas the whole country in an effort to be a cruel, uncaring and evil tyrant.

That's my take on the dreaded and horrible phone call--as usual with the MSM, this is a whole lot of nothing.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 04, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
dementia speaks.

The Biden campaign responded ably to the 60+ cases brought by Trump and his allies, defeating all those attempts to undermine democracy.

I thought that was due to the Court system but you are right, it was because of the Biden campaign.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 04, 2021, 03:36:34 PM
I don't know, the tape of Trump seems to be the most convincing evidence of attempted electoral fraud that's come up yet. He's trying to cajole somebody into making up votes.

Trying to get someone to do his damn job.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on January 04, 2021, 04:49:12 PM
I don't know, the tape of Trump seems to be the most convincing evidence of attempted electoral fraud that's come up yet. He's trying to cajole somebody into making up votes.

Trying to get someone to do his damn job.

You have to have the most toxic orange colored glasses to interpret this in any other way. But if you look hard enough their TDS allows them to unironically spin this in the most self serving way possible.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/03/us/politics/trump-raffensperger-georgia-call-transcript.html

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on January 04, 2021, 04:53:53 PM
SHARK, I am serious when i say this. No fucking around, no internet tough guy nonsense, not trying to "win" an argument. If you listen to the recording of Trump's conversation, I do not think you can honestly walk away and say Trump's behavior was moral or ethical. I just don't. So, please, listen to it. The whole thing, so you get all the context. You will hear Trump rationally lay out his case for why he thinks he did win in Georgia and what the claims are about fraud and how it should be handled, and then responses, and then Trump crosses the line into unethical things. Listen to it yourself and you decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW_Bdf_jGaA
Did you listen to the 4 minute excerpt they originally had up, or the full hour long phone call they replaced it with later? Most of the reactions seem to be based on the short version, which was selectively edited, with statements taken out of context and jump cuts.

I can't tolerate listening to Trump for more than about 10 seconds in row, so I'll never listen to either. But Tim Pool, who voted for Trump in this election but thinks Biden won, and is a progressive liberal who thinks Medicare for All and a UBI are good ideas, concludes there was nothing egregious, and it's the secretary of state of Georgia who comes out looking bad. The part about 11,700 votes is after discussion where Trump claims he won fairly, claims many voting irregularities in excess of the amount, and then says he only needs 11,700. There's nothing fraudulent about that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2MoJp9ueMc
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on January 04, 2021, 04:56:56 PM
SHARK, I am serious when i say this. No fucking around, no internet tough guy nonsense, not trying to "win" an argument. If you listen to the recording of Trump's conversation, I do not think you can honestly walk away and say Trump's behavior was moral or ethical. I just don't. So, please, listen to it. The whole thing, so you get all the context. You will hear Trump rationally lay out his case for why he thinks he did win in Georgia and what the claims are about fraud and how it should be handled, and then responses, and then Trump crosses the line into unethical things. Listen to it yourself and you decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW_Bdf_jGaA
Did you listen to the 4 minute excerpt they originally had up, or the full hour long phone call they replaced it with later? Most of the reactions seem to be based on the short version, which was selectively edited, with statements taken out of context and jump cuts.

I can't tolerate listening to Trump for more than about 10 seconds in row, so I'll never listen to either. But Tim Pool, who voted for Trump in this election but thinks Biden won, and is a progressive liberal who thinks Medicare for All and a UBI are good ideas, concludes there was nothing egregious, and it's the secretary of state of Georgia who comes out looking bad. The part about 11,700 votes is after discussion where Trump claims he won fairly, claims many voting irregularities in excess of the amount, and then says he only needs 11,700. There's nothing fraudulent about that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2MoJp9ueMc

I listened to the full hour and linked to the full hour in my message.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 04, 2021, 05:10:32 PM
I don't know, the tape of Trump seems to be the most convincing evidence of attempted electoral fraud that's come up yet. He's trying to cajole somebody into making up votes.

Trying to get someone to do his damn job.

You have to have the most toxic orange colored glasses to interpret this in any other way. But if you look hard enough their TDS allows them to unironically spin this in the most self serving way possible.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/03/us/politics/trump-raffensperger-georgia-call-transcript.html

Greetings!

Hey there, Shuddemell! Yeah, I agree. I used to occasionally watch episodes of the MSM on various topics or events, just to see what they were saying, you know, so I can get a broad range of sources when it comes to the news and current events--instead of just listening to Conservative sources.

Nah. The MSM has become so corrupt, fraudulent, and an absolute propaganda organization for the Marxist Left, mor and more I don't even click on their headlines at all anymore. There have been so many issues and events over the last four years--from the Covington high school kid wearing a MAGA hat, to the MSM's lies about Russia! Russia! Russian Collusion!, to the Ukraine phone call, to the phony impeachment, to Trump's July 4 speech at Mt. Rushmore--as well as the anti-white racism, the racism hoaxes like Jusse Smollet, the BS Judge Kavanough hearings, and of course, the infamous "Mostly peaceful protests!"--as buildings are engulfed in flames right bhind the stupid reporter, the MSM has absolutely *zero* credibility. Everytime they even open their mouth, it is all absolute lies, distortion, frame and narrative setting, and Marxist propaganda. The train full of BS just never stops with these people. It's mind boggling to me that any adult that even claims to be educated and rational in any way can listen to the MSM with a straight face.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on January 04, 2021, 05:15:00 PM

I listened to the full hour and linked to the full hour in my message.
They apparently replaced the short version with the long one, that's why I asked.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on January 04, 2021, 06:10:17 PM
Might have something to do with the 400 Mill he owes the Germans/Russians...

Uhh...You do realize a $400 million loan backed by a real estate lien through Deutschebank isn't actually him 'owing' money.  It is just a loan with collateral...and I'm not sure how the 'Germans' or the 'Russians' even fit in...DB is a global bank, it isn't any different than using Citibank or whoever else you want.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on January 04, 2021, 06:14:58 PM

SHARK, I am serious when i say this. No fucking around, no internet tough guy nonsense, not trying to "win" an argument. If you listen to the recording of Trump's conversation, I do not think you can honestly walk away and say Trump's behavior was moral or ethical. I just don't. So, please, listen to it. The whole thing, so you get all the context. You will hear Trump rationally lay out his case for why he thinks he did win in Georgia and what the claims are about fraud and how it should be handled, and then responses, and then Trump crosses the line into unethical things. Listen to it yourself and you decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW_Bdf_jGaA

So when are we charging the FBI/government personnel who falsified information to obtain warrants against members of a US Presidential political campaign?  Just asking...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 04, 2021, 06:34:18 PM
dementia speaks.

The Biden campaign responded ably to the 60+ cases brought by Trump and his allies, defeating all those attempts to undermine democracy.

I thought that was due to the Court system but you are right, it was because of the Biden campaign.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/c9e82371fa8b6d340eb872d97a3e349c/tenor.gif)

It was the product of the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.

I don't know, the tape of Trump seems to be the most convincing evidence of attempted electoral fraud that's come up yet. He's trying to cajole somebody into making up votes.

Trying to get someone to do his damn job.

You have to have the most toxic orange colored glasses to interpret this in any other way. But if you look hard enough their TDS allows them to unironically spin this in the most self serving way possible.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/03/us/politics/trump-raffensperger-georgia-call-transcript.html

If this audio had been published by Project Veritas people would be saying that it was deceptively edited. But since they heard it from WaPo obviously it was on the level (even though it was clearly deceptively edited and out of context).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 04, 2021, 07:00:13 PM
dementia speaks.

The Biden campaign responded ably to the 60+ cases brought by Trump and his allies, defeating all those attempts to undermine democracy.

I thought that was due to the Court system but you are right, it was because of the Biden campaign.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/c9e82371fa8b6d340eb872d97a3e349c/tenor.gif)

It was the product of the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.

I don't know, the tape of Trump seems to be the most convincing evidence of attempted electoral fraud that's come up yet. He's trying to cajole somebody into making up votes.

Trying to get someone to do his damn job.

You have to have the most toxic orange colored glasses to interpret this in any other way. But if you look hard enough their TDS allows them to unironically spin this in the most self serving way possible.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/03/us/politics/trump-raffensperger-georgia-call-transcript.html

If this audio had been published by Project Veritas people would be saying that it was deceptively edited. But since they heard it from WaPo obviously it was on the level (even though it was clearly deceptively edited and out of context).

Greetings!

Hey there, VisionStorm! You know, this whole media narrative that the MSM presents is mind-bogglingly stupid and obvious propaganda! What kind of moron listens to this *phone call* (That was LEAKED! Oh my God!)--and actually believes that the narrative about the phone call is in any way an accurate interpretation? And smug, condescending Liberals just love to crow about how "educated" they are, especially compared to the unwashed masses of--as Obama declared, "Those bitter clingers with their guns and their Bibles!" I read a brief media thing about Bernstein, the journalist involved with Watergate, evidently claiming that this phone call of President Trump is worse than Watergate! And more articles headed by claims that President Trump will be criminally prosecuted, and perhaps even impeached!

How the fuck can you listen to that phone call and come up with such a hysterical, bullshit interpretation as any of that? It is so terrible it's fucking funny. It reminds me of the absurd propaganda posters and such done about America by the Soviet Union in the 1950's, or some pathetic skit done by a crew of third-rate college drama-students high on Meth. Actual grown adults claim to seriously believe this stupid shit, you know? I watched the Fox News clip that Mistwell had included at the top of his post on this, where the nicely-dressed two Liberal women were taking this phone call seriously, and some smug cunt actually laughed mockingly at the Conservative woman on the program that was defending President Trump. These Liberal women are supposed to be "educated professionals"???

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 04, 2021, 07:45:58 PM
The
DESPAIR
in this thread is so palpable and full-bodied! Is it any wonder why some are determined to make it into WHINE! Pu-pu-pu-pu...
In the end, though, TRUTH is much more entertaining than FICTION ~ as the lies begin to be torn down! Then the TRUE ULTIMATE DESPAIR will begin!
===============================
NARRATIVES:
https://twitter.com/PatrickByrne/status/1346108097690009600

RAFFENSPERGER:
https://twitter.com/RichardGrenell/status/1345961396337483786

What was the Deep State's plan?
They wanted America's economy to fall under COVID. Their plan was to weaken Trump, turn the people on him. Trump was suppose to be completely unpopular, so the election was going to be won easily with a little bit of cheating. But this didn’t happen! Understand, the PLAN expected Trump to be FINISHED by December 1st, their plan backfired,they underestimated the American people. What did Trump do on the phone conversation? Trump had them lie on the record: is Dominion moving machines? nope, then Trump asked a very specific question: are they changing the parts out of the Dominion machines? he did this on purpose. Trump notified them that this was your last chance, we caught you and you can tell the truth now or go down with the ship, we have it all.

Optics are important, If Pence makes the decision to reject the electoral votes I do believe the optics would not look good. Trump has been pushing the Senate. Trump will present the fraud, video, data, dominion hacking etc. Senators will be put on the spot, what will they do with the world watching? They will need to reject and admit there has been election fraud.
https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2021/01/04/mccarthy-congress-should-debate-integrity-of-elections-to-unite-this-nation/

Why do those in Power wish to DESTROY innocent American LIVES? https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1345992806750433280

But. da protests! https://www.theepochtimes.com/national-guard-activated-to-help-support-police-during-pro-trump-protests_3642842.html
Some 100 National Guardsmen will be in Washington this week to help support police officers patrolling protests planned by President Donald Trump supporters this week. “We have received confirmation that the D.C. National Guard will be assisting the Metropolitan Police Department, beginning tomorrow through the life cycle of this event,” Metropolitan Police Chief Robert Contee III told reporters at a press conference on Monday. National Guard personnel will be assisting police officers with crowd management and traffic control, freeing officers “to focus on anyone who’s intent on instigating, agitating, or participating in violence in our city,” he added. Washington Mayor Muriel Bowser, a Democrat, revealed she’d asked for National Guard personnel in a Dec. 31 letter to District of Columbia National Guard Commanding General William Walker. Bowser said guardsmen would not be armed and would not be engaged in domestic surveillance, searches, or seizures of Americans.
hmm...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 04, 2021, 11:20:01 PM
The Biden campaign responded ably to the 60+ cases brought by Trump and his allies, defeating all those attempts to undermine democracy.

I thought that was due to the Court system but you are right, it was because of the Biden campaign.

Winning cases, even the slam dunk ones, still requires lawyers to respond for the defendants or as intervenors. Take a look at the many cases at democracydocket.com, which also includes cases against voter suppression schemes affecting future elections.

A random search result about the campaign's legal preparations:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/04/election-lawsuit-trump-biden-434101
Quote
The Biden campaign spent months building a voter protection unit that included a “boiler room” made up of hundreds of lawyers. It's led by former Obama White House counsel Bob Bauer and Dana Remus, who served as the campaign’s general counsel.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 05, 2021, 01:11:43 AM
I don't know, the tape of Trump seems to be the most convincing evidence of attempted electoral fraud that's come up yet. He's trying to cajole somebody into making up votes.

Trying to get someone to do his damn job.

Unexpected but good of you to admit that the job of Republicans in state government is to steal elections.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 05, 2021, 01:13:59 AM
Did you listen to the 4 minute excerpt they originally had up, or the full hour long phone call they replaced it with later? Most of the reactions seem to be based on the short version, which was selectively edited, with statements taken out of context and jump cuts.

I can't tolerate listening to Trump for more than about 10 seconds in row, so I'll never listen to either. But Tim Pool, who voted for Trump in this election but thinks Biden won, and is a progressive liberal who thinks Medicare for All and a UBI are good ideas, concludes there was nothing egregious, and it's the secretary of state of Georgia who comes out looking bad. The part about 11,700 votes is after discussion where Trump claims he won fairly, claims many voting irregularities in excess of the amount, and then says he only needs 11,700. There's nothing fraudulent about that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2MoJp9ueMc

This Tim Pool (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Pool#Views)?  ::)

Listened to the entire Trump call.

The full thing is a lot of browbeating by Trump; Brad Raffensperger and Ryan Germany explain that his information is wrong. The areguments are the typical garbage that keeps getting posted here, that has been investigated and litigated and refuted, like more people voted in Detroit than live there which is wrong. There's repeated insistence that it was impossible for him not to win, that everyone thinks he won, and it's clear that Trump won't accept any answer except "Trump won". In between the rumors he says people are angry, that Raffensperger and Germany are at risk, asks Raffensperger to "recalculate". Trump's lawyers on the call insist that they have been thwarted because the Secretary of State won't give them information that Germany says they cannot by law give.

Listened to Pool's Youtube video.

Pool insists that the courts have dismissed these individual numbers, like the 5000 dead voters they claim (the Georgia Secretary of State says two), because by themselves they couldn't suffice to change the result. He asks if they need to combine these into one lawsuit; well, yes, you could call it a kraken lawsuit or behemoth or leviathan or whatever large mythical creature you like. If Trump has hundreds of thousands of votes he could sue to get, and he raised hundreds of millions of unspent dollars, why hasn't he sued already? He says that Raffensperger leaked the audio (apparently he did; after Lindsey Graham leaned on him to change the election result, they decided to record this call and planned to release it only if they were attacked or misrepresented), but offers as evidence that Raffensperger sounds like he's in the room and Trump sounds like he's over a speaker - my judgement of the audio quality listening to the recording Mistwell linked to was pretty much the reverse, though. The "confidential settlement discussion" excuse is not borne out by the recorded call. Pool discusses the "consent decree" which Germany said was not; Trump claimed it said so at the top but apparently it is labelled "Compromise Settlement Agreement and Release"; Pool mocks Ryan Germany for not having the document right in front of him or knowing it by heart. Trump seems astonished by people who move out of a state and later move back; this is not an uncommon pattern (move for a job or school or a relationship, move back to where family, friends and contacts are); Pool is sure he was able to conclusively check similar Arizona addresses and registrations.

I don't think the quotes are out of context, Pool notwithstanding. Meadows asking if they can "find a path forward that’s less litigious" seems shady; why haven't they already litigated it if it's so certain, which would be more open and accepted if successful? The request to "recalculate" and say Trump won is pretty blatant. I do think impeachment now would be a silly waste of time, not because it's not deserved and wouldn't protect the country from some insanity, but because it would take too long and probably fail for the same reason as the last one. Let Georgia investigate it and decide what case they want to make.

Some fact checks.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2020/11/18/no-detroit-did-not-report-more-votes-than-people/?sh=371786c81baa
https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-check-donald-trump-georgia-elections-electoral-college-407d934b6649a4e4059ec28c4cb70512
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on January 05, 2021, 01:33:19 AM
This Tim Pool (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Pool#Views)?  ::)
Yep. He's an interesting mix. Progressive, but strongly anti-authoritarian, so he ends up favoring Trump over the establishment of either party, but can also be quite critical of him.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 05, 2021, 02:31:29 AM
I don't know, the tape of Trump seems to be the most convincing evidence of attempted electoral fraud that's come up yet. He's trying to cajole somebody into making up votes.

Trying to get someone to do his damn job.

Unexpected but good of you to admit that the job of Republicans in state government is to steal elections.

It's no secret that a good chunk of the GOP were pissed that Trump upset their feud with the Democrats over who gets more of the government pie.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 05, 2021, 02:55:05 PM
It was the product of the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.

I think the most important thing is that the fraud was inclusive.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 05, 2021, 02:59:46 PM
Winning cases, even the slam dunk ones, still requires lawyers to respond for the defendants or as intervenors. Take a look at the many cases at democracydocket.com, which also includes cases against voter suppression schemes affecting future elections.

Well, no.

Winning cases requires that you win cases.  Not sure how this tautology escaped you?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 05, 2021, 03:02:01 PM
Unexpected but good of you to admit that the job of Republicans in state government is to steal elections.

This may be the day where I break my streak of disagreeing with rawma.

Of course the job of Republicans is to steal elections.  I see you have experience with politicians, yes?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on January 05, 2021, 04:46:43 PM
The races for the two Senate races in Georgia have cost more than $830 million so far, making them the #1 and #2 most expensive Senate races in history. And those totals are expected to rise significantly once the final numbers are submitted to the FEC.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/532749-georgia-senate-races-shatter-spending-records

And that's just the tip of the iceberg, because 9 out of 10 of the most expensive Senate races happened in 2020 (the exception was in the far distant past of 2018).
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2020/12/most-expensive-races-of-all-time-senate2020/

When the price of something like a Senate seat appreciates so dramatically in value, what does it mean? A shortage could be the explanation, but the number of Senate seats doesn't seem to have changed. Maybe it's because the customers who are buying those seats feel they're getting more for their money than they used to?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 05, 2021, 05:10:36 PM
When the price of something like a Senate seat appreciates so dramatically in value, what does it mean? A shortage could be the explanation, but the number of Senate seats doesn't seem to have changed. Maybe it's because the customers who are buying those seats feel they're getting more for their money than they used to?

How much do you think Kamala will be able to get for hers?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 05, 2021, 06:51:52 PM
When the price of something like a Senate seat appreciates so dramatically in value, what does it mean? A shortage could be the explanation, but the number of Senate seats doesn't seem to have changed. Maybe it's because the customers who are buying those seats feel they're getting more for their money than they used to?

How much do you think Kamala will be able to get for hers?
Are you suggesting someone would actually be willing to buy Kamala's used seat?!
Amazing!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 05, 2021, 07:18:53 PM
THE DESPAIR IN THIS THREAD IS GLORIOUS!
We gotta keep it going! NO MATTER WHAT!
======================================

The Globalists are now trying to convince the people that if we keep the system we are in and move forward with the great reset it will be better for everyone. They left out the reason why China became a manufacturing powerhouse. The economy improves once again. She’s back, Judy Shelton is nominated once again.  Jan 6th is now almost upon us, what will Pence do, will he certify, throwout the electors or delay, we will soon see. But one thing we know for sure, it will not be for the Deep State.The Deep State will begin to push back. Trump is now ready to reveal something BIG over the next couple of weeks! He now has the swamp trapped, the election fraud is out in the open! How do the people take back the country? How do you introduce the Constitution to show the people the way? The storm is made up of Trump and we the people!

CHINA CHINA CHINA! KISS THE OSR AND IP GOODBYEE!
https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1345414331790462977
"Yet as we explain this week (see article) it is in China, not the West, where the future of e-commerce is being staked out. Its market is far bigger and more creative, with tech firms blending e-commerce, social media and razzmatazz to become online-shopping emporia for 850m digital consumers. And China is also at the frontier of regulation, with the news on December 24th that trustbusters were investigating Alibaba, co-founded by Jack Ma, China’s most celebrated tycoon, and until a few weeks ago its most valuable listed firm."

WHAT THE LEFT DOES NOT WANT: ECONOMIC RECOVERY!
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2021/01/05/v-shaped-recovery-manufacturing-defies-expectations-as-rebound-continues-despite-covid-surge/
"The strength of U.S. manufacturing appears to have been largely unshaken despite the recent surge in coronavirus infections. The Institute for Supply Management said  its manufacturing index rose to a reading of 60.7 in December from 57.5 in the prior month, marking the highest level since 2018. Economists had expected a small decline in the index, which is based on surveys of manufacturing sector senior executives. New orders matched their pandemic high at a reading of 67.9, up from 65.1, signaling that the sector has been more resilient in the face of the pandemic’s winter surge than many other parts of the economy. President Donald Trump made strengthening U.S. manufacturing a key part of his campaign in 2016 and his administration deployed many policies to bolster the sector."

JUDY, JUDY, JUDY! LETS NOT TALK ABOUT JUDY!
https://dailycaller.com/2021/01/04/trump-renominates-judy-shelton-federal-reserve-board/
"President Donald Trump again nominated Judy Shelton to the Federal Reserve’s Board of Governors in a last-minute attempt to fill its only vacant seat before he leaves office. Trump renewed Shelton’s nomination Sunday, the first day of the 117th Congress. She was originally nominated in 2019, but failed to be confirmed by the Senate in December. Her failed nomination came after retiring Tennessee Sen. Lamar Alexander announced his opposition to her confirmation and Sens. Chuck Grassley and Rick Scott were quarantining after being exposed to the coronavirus. Alexander has since been succeeded by Sen. Bill Haggerty, meaning that if Georgia Republican Sens. David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler win their runoffs, Shelton could have enough support to be confirmed before President-elect Joe Biden takes office on Jan. 20."

FOR SOME, VERITAS MEANS TRUTH. TO OTHERS...
https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1346303972479385601
https://twitter.com/paulsperry_/status/1346336111732404224
https://twitter.com/BLUEPRINT_Q/status/1346501380568215553

Eh? Where's PENCE?! DELAYed???
https://twitter.com/rollcall/status/1346473050078777356
https://www.theepochtimes.com/georgia-state-senators-pushing-pence-to-delay-jan-6-electoral-vote_3643538.html
"Republican state senators in Georgia started a push on Monday to delay the Jan. 6 counting of electoral votes. At least a dozen have signed a letter directed to Vice President Mike Pence asking him to officially delay the count—and the number is still growing."

There are also other senators from  Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Arizona also wrote letters sent to the Vice President, [telling him] we want the vice president to at least delay it 10 to 12 days.” Jan 20th is date that matters Constitutionally: “Terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January”. Will this depend on the Senators on how it is going in the Senate? How do you return the power to people? How do you introduce the constitution? People are now hearing it on the MSM, people want to know what it says and how it works!

My Take:
Trump will never forget
https://twitter.com/RyanLizza/status/1346304222405529601

Those who went against Trump will pay in the end, he will unseat each and everyone one of them in the next 4 years, how by telling the people and the people will vote them out!
1. Pence rejects electors from fraud states and sent back to state legislatures
2. Biden doesn’t have 270 on 1/6
3. State legislatures convene hearings
4. Trump drops powerful new evidence
5. Fraud states decertify
6. 12A House Vote – 1 per state delegation
7. Trump 2nd term

This election is NOT over!
WWG1WGA!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 05, 2021, 07:43:53 PM
How much do you think Kamala will be able to get for hers?
Are you suggesting someone would actually be willing to buy Kamala's used seat?!
Amazing!

Whats your offer?

My Take:
Trump will never forget
https://twitter.com/RyanLizza/status/1346304222405529601

Those who went against Trump will pay in the end, he will unseat each and everyone one of them in the next 4 years, how by telling the people and the people will vote them out!
1. Pence rejects electors from fraud states and sent back to state legislatures
2. Biden doesn’t have 270 on 1/6
3. State legislatures convene hearings
4. Trump drops powerful new evidence
5. Fraud states decertify
6. 12A House Vote – 1 per state delegation
7. Trump 2nd term

This election is NOT over!
WWG1WGA!

I have no confidence in Mike Pence.

I think it is time to accept that the Democrat machine stole this one fair and square.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 05, 2021, 08:17:00 PM
How much do you think Kamala will be able to get for hers?
Are you suggesting someone would actually be willing to buy Kamala's used seat?!
Amazing!

Whats your offer?

My Take:
Trump will never forget
https://twitter.com/RyanLizza/status/1346304222405529601

Those who went against Trump will pay in the end, he will unseat each and everyone one of them in the next 4 years, how by telling the people and the people will vote them out!
1. Pence rejects electors from fraud states and sent back to state legislatures
2. Biden doesn’t have 270 on 1/6
3. State legislatures convene hearings
4. Trump drops powerful new evidence
5. Fraud states decertify
6. 12A House Vote – 1 per state delegation
7. Trump 2nd term

This election is NOT over!
WWG1WGA!

I have no confidence in Mike Pence.

I think it is time to accept that the Democrat machine stole this one fair and square.
I promise to treat the Polident-Elect and his Roundheeled Accomplice with all the charm and grace that the Democrats treated Donald Trump.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 05, 2021, 08:24:09 PM
I promise to treat the Polident-Elect and his Roundheeled Accomplice with all the charm and grace that the Democrats treated Donald Trump.
THAT'S THE SPIRIT, Ghost!  ;D

How much do you think Kamala will be able to get for hers?
Are you suggesting someone would actually be willing to buy Kamala's used seat?!
Amazing!

Whats your offer?
Two Bidens and five pandemics!
Uh... we're talking about this Kamala, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_(wrestler)

The grayt-ist VP in all the world! Almost beat Hulk Hogan for State Senate!
I have no confidence in Mike Pence.

I think it is time to accept that the Democrat machine stole this one fair and square.
We are loving your DESPAIR right now. It's rooted in logic, reason, and a desire to stop the rest of the election! "Enough! Enough!" we hear you say. But, I tell you ~ THE KILLING GAME has only just begun!
BWA-HAHAHAHA! I mean, Pu-pu-pu-pu-pu-pu...

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 05, 2021, 09:24:06 PM
I think it is time to accept that the Democrat machine stole this one fair and square.
We are loving your DESPAIR right now. It's rooted in logic, reason, and a desire to stop the rest of the election!

No despair from me, I had my white pill last night.

Let them eat cake my friend.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 05, 2021, 10:52:43 PM
Winning cases, even the slam dunk ones, still requires lawyers to respond for the defendants or as intervenors. Take a look at the many cases at democracydocket.com, which also includes cases against voter suppression schemes affecting future elections.

Well, no.

Winning cases requires that you win cases.  Not sure how this tautology escaped you?

And with the excellent lawyers assembled for that purpose, they have won cases. The elite strike force of rather incompetent lawyers has not managed to win any of its cases.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 05, 2021, 10:55:57 PM
Of course the job of Republicans is to steal elections.

Yes, this is common among Republicans. Attributing it to all politicians is not correct.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 05, 2021, 10:59:45 PM
Of course the job of Republicans is to steal elections.

Yes, this is common among Republicans. Attributing it to all politicians is not correct.

I'm sure you have an unbiased opinion on that topic.  ::)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on January 06, 2021, 12:26:09 AM
Buh bye, Mitch.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 06, 2021, 01:32:43 AM
Buh bye, Mitch.

Couldn't happen to a worse human being.

I wonder if this is going to make tomorrow's electoral vote count more or less interesting.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 06, 2021, 02:06:26 AM
This just keeps getting funnier and funnier
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on January 06, 2021, 02:16:33 AM
That old fart is a shrewd politician who’s survived decades in that world.  I’m assuming he’ll win in the end.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 03:50:26 AM
Greetings!

I just read from the MSM that the Democrats are now projected to win both of the Georgia Senate races.

Such a victory will provide the Democrats--assisted by two "Independent" Senators that routinely vote Democrat a 50-50 tie in the US Senate against the Republicans, with Kamala being the voting tie breaker as the projected Vice President.

Such wonderful news. :(

Happy New Years is starting out just great. >:(

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on January 06, 2021, 03:59:45 AM
I just read from the MSM that the Democrats are now projected to win both of the Georgia Senate races.

Are you saying that you believe what the mainstream media is telling you? For what it's worth, Newsmax is saying the same thing.

In somewhat overlooked news this week, investigators in Georgia re-examined 15,000 signatures in Cobb County, and checked on all the cases that were questionable. No fraudulent votes were found. There were two envelopes found to be improperly signed, but the voters were contacted and confirmed that the envelopes were genuine.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/audit-of-georgia-countys-15-000-absentee-ballot-signatures-turns-up-zero-fraud-01609368663
https://www.ajc.com/politics/no-fraud-georgia-audit-confirms-authenticity-of-absentee-ballots/QF2PTOGHLNDLNDJEWBU56WEQHM/

And the lawsuit from Gohmert to force Pence to claim authority to reject Elector votes was rejected by the appeals court.

https://www.businessinsider.com/federal-appeals-court-dismisses-gohmert-lawsuit-against-pence-2021-1

Tomorrow will be the counting in Congress. Without any successful court challenges, I don't see the legal grounds for blocking the vote. I think it's still worth discussing about the claims of various sources - like whether there really was a special forces raid in Germany for those servers and the results, or other points.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 06, 2021, 09:01:48 AM
Greetings!

I just read from the MSM that the Democrats are now projected to win both of the Georgia Senate races.

Such a victory will provide the Democrats--assisted by two "Independent" Senators that routinely vote Democrat a 50-50 tie in the US Senate against the Republicans, with Kamala being the voting tie breaker as the projected Vice President.

Such wonderful news. :(

Happy New Years is starting out just great. >:(

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
The Democrats need to thank Trump for this. If Trump hadn't thrown his post-election loss tantrums, the Republicans likely would have done better in Georgia. It's not that the Republicans needed him to actively help them win, it's that he actively sabotaged the whole thing for them because he's a petulant child--if he can't win, he's going to make sure no Republicans can.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 06, 2021, 09:08:11 AM
I just read from the MSM that the Democrats are now projected to win both of the Georgia Senate races.

Are you saying that you believe what the mainstream media is telling you? For what it's worth, Newsmax is saying the same thing.

In somewhat overlooked news this week, investigators in Georgia re-examined 15,000 signatures in Cobb County, and checked on all the cases that were questionable. No fraudulent votes were found. There were two envelopes found to be improperly signed, but the voters were contacted and confirmed that the envelopes were genuine.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/audit-of-georgia-countys-15-000-absentee-ballot-signatures-turns-up-zero-fraud-01609368663
https://www.ajc.com/politics/no-fraud-georgia-audit-confirms-authenticity-of-absentee-ballots/QF2PTOGHLNDLNDJEWBU56WEQHM/

And the lawsuit from Gohmert to force Pence to claim authority to reject Elector votes was rejected by the appeals court.

https://www.businessinsider.com/federal-appeals-court-dismisses-gohmert-lawsuit-against-pence-2021-1

Tomorrow will be the counting in Congress. Without any successful court challenges, I don't see the legal grounds for blocking the vote. I think it's still worth discussing about the claims of various sources - like whether there really was a special forces raid in Germany for those servers and the results, or other points.

There wasn't, and what's more, the company that was supposedly raided has responded to this BS. They don't even have any offices in Germany. It's not worth discussing that any more than it is any of the other lies being spewed by the biggest bunch of sore loser crybabies in the history of US politics.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on January 06, 2021, 09:23:33 AM
I just read from the MSM that the Democrats are now projected to win both of the Georgia Senate races.

Are you saying that you believe what the mainstream media is telling you? For what it's worth, Newsmax is saying the same thing.

In somewhat overlooked news this week, investigators in Georgia re-examined 15,000 signatures in Cobb County, and checked on all the cases that were questionable. No fraudulent votes were found. There were two envelopes found to be improperly signed, but the voters were contacted and confirmed that the envelopes were genuine.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/audit-of-georgia-countys-15-000-absentee-ballot-signatures-turns-up-zero-fraud-01609368663
https://www.ajc.com/politics/no-fraud-georgia-audit-confirms-authenticity-of-absentee-ballots/QF2PTOGHLNDLNDJEWBU56WEQHM/

And the lawsuit from Gohmert to force Pence to claim authority to reject Elector votes was rejected by the appeals court.

https://www.businessinsider.com/federal-appeals-court-dismisses-gohmert-lawsuit-against-pence-2021-1

Tomorrow will be the counting in Congress. Without any successful court challenges, I don't see the legal grounds for blocking the vote. I think it's still worth discussing about the claims of various sources - like whether there really was a special forces raid in Germany for those servers and the results, or other points.

There wasn't, and what's more, the company that was supposedly raided has responded to this BS. They don't even have any offices in Germany. It's not worth discussing that any more than it is any of the other lies being spewed by the biggest bunch of sore loser crybabies in the history of US politics.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH... the lack of self awareness in this comment is epic. You seem to forget the the constant last 4 years of Democrats spewing lies and spinning conspiracies.... because they couldn't get over the results of an election. Pot meet kettle, what a dishonest floater you are.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 06, 2021, 09:53:14 AM
Greetings!

I just read from the MSM that the Democrats are now projected to win both of the Georgia Senate races.

Such a victory will provide the Democrats--assisted by two "Independent" Senators that routinely vote Democrat a 50-50 tie in the US Senate against the Republicans, with Kamala being the voting tie breaker as the projected Vice President.

Such wonderful news. :(

Happy New Years is starting out just great. >:(

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
The Democrats need to thank Trump for this. If Trump hadn't thrown his post-election loss tantrums, the Republicans likely would have done better in Georgia. It's not that the Republicans needed him to actively help them win, it's that he actively sabotaged the whole thing for them because he's a petulant child--if he can't win, he's going to make sure no Republicans can.

Because Republicans never lost an election before Trump.  ::)
And the Democrats held a four year tantrum after Trump won in 2016. Didn't seem to hurt them.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deathknight4044 on January 06, 2021, 11:01:25 AM
Greetings!

I just read from the MSM that the Democrats are now projected to win both of the Georgia Senate races.

Such a victory will provide the Democrats--assisted by two "Independent" Senators that routinely vote Democrat a 50-50 tie in the US Senate against the Republicans, with Kamala being the voting tie breaker as the projected Vice President.

Such wonderful news. :(

Happy New Years is starting out just great. >:(

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
The Democrats need to thank Trump for this. If Trump hadn't thrown his post-election loss tantrums, the Republicans likely would have done better in Georgia. It's not that the Republicans needed him to actively help them win, it's that he actively sabotaged the whole thing for them because he's a petulant child--if he can't win, he's going to make sure no Republicans can.


Laughably out of touch take,  but I think your comment is more of a concern troll.

Anyways Republicans lost because congress shot down a stimulus bill that Trump explicitly requested. Something that had over 70% support from republicans and independents. Furthermore the candidates in question are percieved to have turned their back on a president that has a 93% in party approval.

Neo cons will desperately do what you're saying and try to wash their hands of trumpism, but they will face the wrath of their voters and be replaced in doing so. Republicans arent buying what they're selling. They want trumpism. The collapse in fox news ratings pretty much overnight tells you all that you need to know about the desired direction of the party.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 11:18:37 AM
Greetings!

At the rally in Washington, DC just s bit ago, a Constitutional lawyer reached the stage with Rudi Juliani and described how the Democrats used the voting machine algorithyms to engage in fraud and subvert the Senate election in Georgia. This has evidently been observed in real time last night, and the team with President Trump understands very clearly how the Democrats have embraced fraud and corruption in the Senate election last night, and in the same manner that they embraced fraud and corruption on the 2020 Election on November 3, 2020.

More fraud and corruption from the Marxist Democrats. Damn right America needs to be saved from these corrupt traitors! The disgusting, corrupt Democrats, and their wormy, snivelling RINO allies as well. They all need to effing pay!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 06, 2021, 11:22:56 AM
Greetings!

I just read from the MSM that the Democrats are now projected to win both of the Georgia Senate races.

Such a victory will provide the Democrats--assisted by two "Independent" Senators that routinely vote Democrat a 50-50 tie in the US Senate against the Republicans, with Kamala being the voting tie breaker as the projected Vice President.

Such wonderful news. :(

Happy New Years is starting out just great. >:(

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
The Democrats need to thank Trump for this. If Trump hadn't thrown his post-election loss tantrums, the Republicans likely would have done better in Georgia. It's not that the Republicans needed him to actively help them win, it's that he actively sabotaged the whole thing for them because he's a petulant child--if he can't win, he's going to make sure no Republicans can.


Laughably out of touch take,  but I think your comment is more of a concern troll.

Anyways Republicans lost because congress shot down a stimulus bill that Trump explicitly requested. Something that had over 70% support from republicans and independents. Furthermore the candidates in question are percieved to have turned their back on a president that has a 93% in party approval.

Neo cons will desperately do what you're saying and try to wash their hands of trumpism, but they will face the wrath of their voters and be replaced in doing so. Republicans arent buying what they're selling. They want trumpism. The collapse in fox news ratings pretty much overnight tells you all that you need to know about the desired direction of the party.
I can agree that many that "voted Republican" really just "voted Trump" (and that at least some that "voted Democrat" probably just "voted anti-Trump") in the election. The downside of the two-party system is that the alliances with radical independents (even if they don't identify themselves as such) sometimes hurt more than they help. On the Left we have the hard Socialists that drag down the mainstream Democrats (and may destroy it if their numbers continue to grow), and on the right, we have the Trumpists that are destroying the Republican party because they seem to have grown to outnumber the reasonable conservatives.

In a dream world, I would love to see the moderate members of both parties form a third party and leave the extreme Left and extreme Right out on their own.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 06, 2021, 11:26:24 AM
Greetings!

At the rally in Washington, DC just s bit ago, a Constitutional lawyer reached the stage with Rudi Juliani and described how the Democrats used the voting machine algorithyms to engage in fraud and subvert the Senate election in Georgia. This has evidently been observed in real time last night, and the team with President Trump understands very clearly how the Democrats have embraced fraud and corruption in the Senate election last night, and in the same manner that they embraced fraud and corruption on the 2020 Election on November 3, 2020.

More fraud and corruption from the Marxist Democrats. Damn right America needs to be saved from these corrupt traitors! The disgusting, corrupt Democrats, and their wormy, snivelling RINO allies as well. They all need to effing pay!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You're still believing anything brought forth by Rudy Giuliani (BTW, learn how to spell his name, you fucking dimwit)? You are so far gone that you must be crying to yourself while you masturbate to your fallen Emperor.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Larsdangly on January 06, 2021, 11:55:55 AM
Just for fun, can any of the alt-right dipshits who like to post here point me toward a single documented instance of voter fraud in the 2020 election or yesterday's run-off at a scale that could have impacted a state-level outcome? All I've heard is blathering nonsense about some fourth hand story someone saw on Parler. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 12:05:08 PM
Greetings!

At the rally in Washington, DC just s bit ago, a Constitutional lawyer reached the stage with Rudi Juliani and described how the Democrats used the voting machine algorithyms to engage in fraud and subvert the Senate election in Georgia. This has evidently been observed in real time last night, and the team with President Trump understands very clearly how the Democrats have embraced fraud and corruption in the Senate election last night, and in the same manner that they embraced fraud and corruption on the 2020 Election on November 3, 2020.

More fraud and corruption from the Marxist Democrats. Damn right America needs to be saved from these corrupt traitors! The disgusting, corrupt Democrats, and their wormy, snivelling RINO allies as well. They all need to effing pay!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You're still believing anything brought forth by Rudy Giuliani (BTW, learn how to spell his name, you fucking dimwit)? You are so far gone that you must be crying to yourself while you masturbate to your fallen Emperor.

Greetings!

I misspelled Rudi Giuliani's name. *shrug* So fucking what? At least I am not a weak-minded, Marxist cuck like you.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deathknight4044 on January 06, 2021, 12:11:22 PM
Greetings!

I just read from the MSM that the Democrats are now projected to win both of the Georgia Senate races.

Such a victory will provide the Democrats--assisted by two "Independent" Senators that routinely vote Democrat a 50-50 tie in the US Senate against the Republicans, with Kamala being the voting tie breaker as the projected Vice President.

Such wonderful news. :(

Happy New Years is starting out just great. >:(

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
The Democrats need to thank Trump for this. If Trump hadn't thrown his post-election loss tantrums, the Republicans likely would have done better in Georgia. It's not that the Republicans needed him to actively help them win, it's that he actively sabotaged the whole thing for them because he's a petulant child--if he can't win, he's going to make sure no Republicans can.


Laughably out of touch take,  but I think your comment is more of a concern troll.

Anyways Republicans lost because congress shot down a stimulus bill that Trump explicitly requested. Something that had over 70% support from republicans and independents. Furthermore the candidates in question are percieved to have turned their back on a president that has a 93% in party approval.

Neo cons will desperately do what you're saying and try to wash their hands of trumpism, but they will face the wrath of their voters and be replaced in doing so. Republicans arent buying what they're selling. They want trumpism. The collapse in fox news ratings pretty much overnight tells you all that you need to know about the desired direction of the party.
I can agree that many that "voted Republican" really just "voted Trump" (and that at least some that "voted Democrat" probably just "voted anti-Trump") in the election. The downside of the two-party system is that the alliances with radical independents (even if they don't identify themselves as such) sometimes hurt more than they help. On the Left we have the hard Socialists that drag down the mainstream Democrats (and may destroy it if their numbers continue to grow), and on the right, we have the Trumpists that are destroying the Republican party because they seem to have grown to outnumber the reasonable conservatives.

In a dream world, I would love to see the moderate members of both parties form a third party and leave the extreme Left and extreme Right out on their own.

I would gladly support a far right party and probably do so as soon as it is viable. Neocons are garbage and essentially just Democrats going the speed limit. They've conserved nothing besides welfare for corporations rather than welfare for their people, embraced mass migration for a steady influx of unlimited cheap labor, have allowed gun rights to suffer death by a thousand cuts with feeble pushback, and have conceeded every cultural issue of importance, dooming us to this globehomo clownworld of today where Netflixs "cuties" and Desmond the amazing are accepted.

The neoliberal and neoconservative factions in this country pass the ball back and forth while going through business as usual, all while giving bullshit lip service theatrics to their supporters. It would be wonderful to see them gone and I believe we will in time, as a lot of young people of either political ideology are very angry and very disillusioned with the system.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 12:28:42 PM
Greetings!

I just read from the MSM that the Democrats are now projected to win both of the Georgia Senate races.

Such a victory will provide the Democrats--assisted by two "Independent" Senators that routinely vote Democrat a 50-50 tie in the US Senate against the Republicans, with Kamala being the voting tie breaker as the projected Vice President.

Such wonderful news. :(

Happy New Years is starting out just great. >:(

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
The Democrats need to thank Trump for this. If Trump hadn't thrown his post-election loss tantrums, the Republicans likely would have done better in Georgia. It's not that the Republicans needed him to actively help them win, it's that he actively sabotaged the whole thing for them because he's a petulant child--if he can't win, he's going to make sure no Republicans can.


Laughably out of touch take,  but I think your comment is more of a concern troll.

Anyways Republicans lost because congress shot down a stimulus bill that Trump explicitly requested. Something that had over 70% support from republicans and independents. Furthermore the candidates in question are percieved to have turned their back on a president that has a 93% in party approval.

Neo cons will desperately do what you're saying and try to wash their hands of trumpism, but they will face the wrath of their voters and be replaced in doing so. Republicans arent buying what they're selling. They want trumpism. The collapse in fox news ratings pretty much overnight tells you all that you need to know about the desired direction of the party.
I can agree that many that "voted Republican" really just "voted Trump" (and that at least some that "voted Democrat" probably just "voted anti-Trump") in the election. The downside of the two-party system is that the alliances with radical independents (even if they don't identify themselves as such) sometimes hurt more than they help. On the Left we have the hard Socialists that drag down the mainstream Democrats (and may destroy it if their numbers continue to grow), and on the right, we have the Trumpists that are destroying the Republican party because they seem to have grown to outnumber the reasonable conservatives.

In a dream world, I would love to see the moderate members of both parties form a third party and leave the extreme Left and extreme Right out on their own.

I would gladly support a far right party and probably do so as soon as it is viable. Neocons are garbage and essentially just Democrats going the speed limit. They've conserved nothing besides welfare for corporations rather than welfare for their people, embraced mass migration for a steady influx of unlimited cheap labor, have allowed gun rights to suffer death by a thousand cuts with feeble pushback, and have conceeded every cultural issue of importance, dooming us to this globehomo clownworld of today where Netflixs "cuties" and Desmond the amazing are accepted.

The neoliberal and neoconservative factions in this country pass the ball back and forth while going through business as usual, all while giving bullshit lip service theatrics to their supporters. It would be wonderful to see them gone and I believe we will in time, as a lot of young people of either political ideology are very angry and very disillusioned with the system.

Greetings!

Very true, Deathknight. Neoliberals and Neocons are both worthless scum that merely wear different coloured ties from each other. I was just watching the live coverage of the Save America rally in Washington, DC, and the broadcast features these two young women reporters that are reporting for Right Side Broadcasting, and it is so refreshing to listen to some young reporters--these two women, Liz and Grace--that are patriotic and Conservative, and which love America, they love our heritage and traditions, and they are both very vocal in their support and love for President Trump. It is great hearing how they both stand against the Marxist Democrats, fraud and corruption. So many loyal, patriotic Americans gathered together in DC! Many fellow citizens share your values and your concerns, Deathknight. Make no mistake, my friend, we are not alone. MILLIONS of Americans love America, and support President Trump, oppose fucking Globalism, Socialism and Marxism.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 06, 2021, 12:39:57 PM
Greetings!

At the rally in Washington, DC just s bit ago, a Constitutional lawyer reached the stage with Rudi Juliani and described how the Democrats used the voting machine algorithyms to engage in fraud and subvert the Senate election in Georgia. This has evidently been observed in real time last night, and the team with President Trump understands very clearly how the Democrats have embraced fraud and corruption in the Senate election last night, and in the same manner that they embraced fraud and corruption on the 2020 Election on November 3, 2020.

More fraud and corruption from the Marxist Democrats. Damn right America needs to be saved from these corrupt traitors! The disgusting, corrupt Democrats, and their wormy, snivelling RINO allies as well. They all need to effing pay!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
You're still believing anything brought forth by Rudy Giuliani (BTW, learn how to spell his name, you fucking dimwit)? You are so far gone that you must be crying to yourself while you masturbate to your fallen Emperor.

Greetings!

I misspelled Rudi Giuliani's name. *shrug* So fucking what? At least I am not a weak-minded, Marxist cuck like you.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

You're cucking for Trump pretty hard. You should start signing your posts with SIMPer Fidelis.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on January 06, 2021, 12:56:47 PM
At the rally in Washington, DC just s bit ago, a Constitutional lawyer reached the stage with Rudi Juliani and described how the Democrats used the voting machine algorithyms to engage in fraud and subvert the Senate election in Georgia. This has evidently been observed in real time last night, and the team with President Trump understands very clearly how the Democrats have embraced fraud and corruption in the Senate election last night, and in the same manner that they embraced fraud and corruption on the 2020 Election on November 3, 2020.

Are you saying you consider the word of the *lawyer* to constitute serious evidence?!?  Previously there was a lot of big talk about how the Kraken was going to show everyone, convince judges, and disrupt the election. But now it seems like standards have slipped to the word of a lawyer and Twitter posters.


Tomorrow will be the counting in Congress. Without any successful court challenges, I don't see the legal grounds for blocking the vote. I think it's still worth discussing about the claims of various sources - like whether there really was a special forces raid in Germany for those servers and the results, or other points.

There wasn't, and what's more, the company that was supposedly raided has responded to this BS. They don't even have any offices in Germany. It's not worth discussing that any more than it is any of the other lies being spewed by the biggest bunch of sore loser crybabies in the history of US politics.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH... the lack of self awareness in this comment is epic. You seem to forget the the constant last 4 years of Democrats spewing lies and spinning conspiracies.... because they couldn't get over the results of an election. Pot meet kettle, what a dishonest floater you are.

So shuddemell, do you think that the raid in Germany happened?

As for Democrats, there are plenty of unverified claims regarding Russian interference on social media. However, the Democrats claiming Russian interference at least have some court cases on their side: the convictions of Flynn, Manafort, Papadopolous, Cohen, and Gates. And they have the Mueller report and other official statements from the DOJ and FBI - which don't implicate Trump personally, but have detailed Russian efforts to manipulate the election that include people in Trump's administration.

By contrast, the fraud claims from Trump have been more far-reaching, and have less verified evidence to show. There are a few dozen witnesses, but even the top selection of these have not convinced judges or election officials. Trump has been President of the United States for four years, and he has appointed a ton of judges and officials - yet even his own appointments (like William Barr) have largely not supported him in his claims.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 06, 2021, 01:05:29 PM
Pence just released a statement that he intends to read the votes as per his Constitutional duty, and accepts that he has no ability to interfere. Popping corn, and grabbing a brew. The salt mining today will be glorious.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: shuddemell on January 06, 2021, 01:22:31 PM
At the rally in Washington, DC just s bit ago, a Constitutional lawyer reached the stage with Rudi Juliani and described how the Democrats used the voting machine algorithyms to engage in fraud and subvert the Senate election in Georgia. This has evidently been observed in real time last night, and the team with President Trump understands very clearly how the Democrats have embraced fraud and corruption in the Senate election last night, and in the same manner that they embraced fraud and corruption on the 2020 Election on November 3, 2020.

Are you saying you consider the word of the *lawyer* to constitute serious evidence?!?  Previously there was a lot of big talk about how the Kraken was going to show everyone, convince judges, and disrupt the election. But now it seems like standards have slipped to the word of a lawyer and Twitter posters.


Tomorrow will be the counting in Congress. Without any successful court challenges, I don't see the legal grounds for blocking the vote. I think it's still worth discussing about the claims of various sources - like whether there really was a special forces raid in Germany for those servers and the results, or other points.

There wasn't, and what's more, the company that was supposedly raided has responded to this BS. They don't even have any offices in Germany. It's not worth discussing that any more than it is any of the other lies being spewed by the biggest bunch of sore loser crybabies in the history of US politics.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH... the lack of self awareness in this comment is epic. You seem to forget the the constant last 4 years of Democrats spewing lies and spinning conspiracies.... because they couldn't get over the results of an election. Pot meet kettle, what a dishonest floater you are.

So shuddemell, do you think that the raid in Germany happened?

As for Democrats, there are plenty of unverified claims regarding Russian interference on social media. However, the Democrats claiming Russian interference at least have some court cases on their side: the convictions of Flynn, Manafort, Papadopolous, Cohen, and Gates. And they have the Mueller report and other official statements from the DOJ and FBI - which don't implicate Trump personally, but have detailed Russian efforts to manipulate the election that include people in Trump's administration.

By contrast, the fraud claims from Trump have been more far-reaching, and have less verified evidence to show. There are a few dozen witnesses, but even the top selection of these have not convinced judges or election officials. Trump has been President of the United States for four years, and he has appointed a ton of judges and officials - yet even his own appointments (like William Barr) have largely not supported him in his claims.

My comment has nothing to do with whether or not the raid happened, and no, I haven't seen compelling evidence of that. Also the convictions you point to have ZERO to do with collusion (which was obviously manufactured and I still have yet to see these tools of the deep state do time for it which points to a very heavy leftist bias in the courts, both legal and of public opinion) and rather are other things they caught in the process. I would say that the evidence of fraud is actually pretty obvious, especially if you examine the results statistically, but you really have to be pretty dishonest to believe that Republicans are any worse than Democrats with regard to being salty about an election. The reason there is less verified evidence is largely because of court and media interference, and I have yet to see an honest appraisal of them by any court that wasn't generally partisan in one or more ways. It's largely why I haven't weighed in much about this issue, as I see some statistical "impossibilities" but until it is had out in court properly, I cannot say which is true (and likely not even then), though based on the past four years, I lean to Democrat corruption at the basest level.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: TNMalt on January 06, 2021, 01:56:20 PM
So who here is going to bail ship to another country after Jan 20?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on January 06, 2021, 02:00:24 PM
To the people who think that Democrats handled the riots in an OK fashion, I'm sorry but this is just pathetic. Ted Wheeler was seemingly fine with letting Portland burn until the election was more or less settled. I had been following this, and drew the same conclusion as this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W9HrwJS0dY
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 02:11:33 PM
At the rally in Washington, DC just s bit ago, a Constitutional lawyer reached the stage with Rudi Juliani and described how the Democrats used the voting machine algorithyms to engage in fraud and subvert the Senate election in Georgia. This has evidently been observed in real time last night, and the team with President Trump understands very clearly how the Democrats have embraced fraud and corruption in the Senate election last night, and in the same manner that they embraced fraud and corruption on the 2020 Election on November 3, 2020.

Are you saying you consider the word of the *lawyer* to constitute serious evidence?!?  Previously there was a lot of big talk about how the Kraken was going to show everyone, convince judges, and disrupt the election. But now it seems like standards have slipped to the word of a lawyer and Twitter posters.


Tomorrow will be the counting in Congress. Without any successful court challenges, I don't see the legal grounds for blocking the vote. I think it's still worth discussing about the claims of various sources - like whether there really was a special forces raid in Germany for those servers and the results, or other points.

There wasn't, and what's more, the company that was supposedly raided has responded to this BS. They don't even have any offices in Germany. It's not worth discussing that any more than it is any of the other lies being spewed by the biggest bunch of sore loser crybabies in the history of US politics.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH... the lack of self awareness in this comment is epic. You seem to forget the the constant last 4 years of Democrats spewing lies and spinning conspiracies.... because they couldn't get over the results of an election. Pot meet kettle, what a dishonest floater you are.

So shuddemell, do you think that the raid in Germany happened?

As for Democrats, there are plenty of unverified claims regarding Russian interference on social media. However, the Democrats claiming Russian interference at least have some court cases on their side: the convictions of Flynn, Manafort, Papadopolous, Cohen, and Gates. And they have the Mueller report and other official statements from the DOJ and FBI - which don't implicate Trump personally, but have detailed Russian efforts to manipulate the election that include people in Trump's administration.

By contrast, the fraud claims from Trump have been more far-reaching, and have less verified evidence to show. There are a few dozen witnesses, but even the top selection of these have not convinced judges or election officials. Trump has been President of the United States for four years, and he has appointed a ton of judges and officials - yet even his own appointments (like William Barr) have largely not supported him in his claims.

Greetings!

I described what I saw of the live coverage of the Save America rally in Washington, DC. The man was introduced as one of the top Constitutional lawyers in the country, and listened to his description and analysis, in brief, of how the machines engaged in fraud. The Democrats are lying, corrupt scum that have engaged in a disgraceful litany of lies, fraud, corruption, and malice virtually every day over the last four years--and the Democrats have been subverted and corrupted by God-hating Marxists. I have been convinced that the Democrats have embraced corruption and fraud through a preponderance of evidence--signed affidavits, testimonies, statistical analysis, computer analysis, video footage, and what I saw on the night of the election. I support President Trump, and believe that our President loves America, and has been fighting the corrupt swamp so as to make America great. President Trump is fighting for TRUTH, and for America. I believe that President Trump won the 2020 election lawfully and fairly, and the corrupt Democrats and RINOS have worked to steal the 2020 Election from President Trump, and from the American people. Our sacred Republic is at risk, and all patriotic Americans should resist the Marxist Democrat fraud and subversion of our election and our country.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on January 06, 2021, 02:12:35 PM
Haven't posted in a while to avoid all the fucking retarded CCP shills. Here is a video as a massive fuck you to anyone who said "you won't do anything".

Currently loading magazines, faggots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENPkiDl6Wdg
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 06, 2021, 02:34:35 PM
The Democrats need to thank Trump for this. If Trump hadn't thrown his post-election loss tantrums, the Republicans likely would have done better in Georgia. It's not that the Republicans needed him to actively help them win, it's that he actively sabotaged the whole thing for them because he's a petulant child--if he can't win, he's going to make sure no Republicans can.

Neither side would have gotten the same turnout in November without Trump. A lot of alternate histories without Trump or with a different Trump are possible; it's not clear how to judge their likely effects. But, as Lindsey Graham warned in May of 2016, "If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed.......and we will deserve it." Fact check: True.

Gonna go out on a limb and say that Donald Trump will not pivot to being presidential in the remaining 14 days of his term.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Brad on January 06, 2021, 02:38:49 PM
Neither side would have gotten the same turnout in November without Trump. A lot of alternate histories without Trump or with a different Trump are possible; it's not clear how to judge their likely effects. But, as Lindsey Graham warned in May of 2016, "If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed.......and we will deserve it." Fact check: True.

Gonna go out on a limb and say that Donald Trump will not pivot to being presidential in the remaining 14 days of his term.

STFU, shill. You and HappyFuck are the biggest cocksuckers on this site.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 06, 2021, 03:03:54 PM
The truth of all of this is that it will accomplish nothing except further cementing the doom of the Republican Party. Biden will still be sworn in, on schedule, and the political careers of everyone who tethered themselves to him will be toast.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on January 06, 2021, 03:31:18 PM
Lunatic, piss-yellow flag waving Trumpkins storm Capitol building pushing the US further towards becoming a Third World banana republic. Which is the fondest dream of Putin, Xi Jinping, and Trump himself. Well done Trumpkins. Your fearful leader and your foreign masters are very proud of you. Shameful!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 03:33:33 PM
Greetings!

*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 06, 2021, 03:34:56 PM
Buh bye, Mitch.

Couldn't happen to a worse human being.

Of course it could, but happening to Mitch is still pretty good.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KenHR on January 06, 2021, 03:36:50 PM
Currently loading magazines, faggots.

No one wants to hear about your masturbation habits.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on January 06, 2021, 03:37:58 PM
So who here is going to bail ship to another country after Jan 20?
SJWs say the same shit every other election cycle.  Nobody is moving anywhere.  If you are a Republican there will be another demigod in another couple of cycles.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 06, 2021, 03:40:20 PM
Pence just released a statement that he intends to read the votes as per his Constitutional duty, and accepts that he has no ability to interfere. Popping corn, and grabbing a brew. The salt mining today will be glorious.

I told you.

Just call me Q.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Daztur on January 06, 2021, 03:43:03 PM
Greetings!

*Thousands* of American patriots all singing the National Anthem as more patriots storm the Capital building!

Huge chants of "OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE! OUR HOUSE!"

More chanting, "USA! USA! USA!"

Hundreds of Americans pouring inside the doors! Thousands everywhere, surrounding everything!

Fucking LOCK AND LOAD!!! Amazing!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Yup amazing, time for the mask to come off and people to see what Trump has unleashed. Get a good hard look at what is crawling around under the rocks.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 06, 2021, 03:44:11 PM
The Democrats need to thank Trump for this. If Trump hadn't thrown his post-election loss tantrums, the Republicans likely would have done better in Georgia. It's not that the Republicans needed him to actively help them win, it's that he actively sabotaged the whole thing for them because he's a petulant child--if he can't win, he's going to make sure no Republicans can.

The Democrats dont need to thank Trump when they have ‘The Most Extensive And Inclusive Voter Fraud Organization’ In American History'
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 06, 2021, 03:49:16 PM
Yup amazing, time for the mask to come off and people to see what Trump has unleashed. Get a good hard look at what is crawling around under the rocks.

8 months of BLM riots and now the mask has come off?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on January 06, 2021, 03:55:03 PM
Lunatic, piss-yellow flag waving Trumpkins storm Capitol building pushing the US further towards becoming a Third World banana republic. Which is the fondest dream of Putin, Xi Jinping, and Trump himself. Well done Trumpkins. Your fearful leader and your foreign masters are very proud of you. Shameful!

Now some idiot will end up dead or in prison for life.  All because he wanted to worship one man.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Daztur on January 06, 2021, 04:01:07 PM
Yup amazing, time for the mask to come off and people to see what Trump has unleashed. Get a good hard look at what is crawling around under the rocks.

8 months of BLM riots and now the mask has come off?

Are you really unable to understand how bad this looks?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deathknight4044 on January 06, 2021, 04:02:30 PM
Yup amazing, time for the mask to come off and people to see what Trump has unleashed. Get a good hard look at what is crawling around under the rocks.

8 months of BLM riots and now the mask has come off?

Are you really unable to understand how bad this looks?

Looks mostly peaceful to me
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 06, 2021, 04:04:44 PM
Senators are already signaling a willingness to return to work and count the votes.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 04:16:35 PM
Greetings!

Nancy Polosi's office has been taken. Evidently she left in such haste, she left her computer open. Patriots are reading her Emails right now, and searching her computer.

Capital Police have attempted to use mace, tear gas and batons. Whistles blowing loudly, all to no avail. Tens of thousands of Patriots marching everywhere. American flags waving like great forests. Other scenes show police merely standing by, watching as Patriots march and pour about. Police do not seem eager to be violent in general.

Thundering roars of USA! USA! USA!

More singing of the National Anthem! Thousands singing all in unison!

Entire Capital building looks like it is overwhelmed and thoroughly occupied by Patriots!

So many huge crowds everywhere! Men, women, all chanting!

MAGA!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 06, 2021, 04:28:23 PM
Jon Ossoff has won his Senate race.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 06, 2021, 04:31:06 PM
Yup amazing, time for the mask to come off and people to see what Trump has unleashed. Get a good hard look at what is crawling around under the rocks.

8 months of BLM riots and now the mask has come off?

Are you really unable to understand how bad this looks?

Does it look mostly peaceful?

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on January 06, 2021, 04:35:05 PM
Capital Police have attempted to use mace, tear gas and batons. Whistles blowing loudly, all to no avail. Tens of thousands of Patriots marching everywhere. American flags waving like great forests.

Trump saying: "Go home, and go home in peace."

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1346928882595885058

Though for contrast, from six months ago:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErE-cCcVcAEem7X?format=jpg&name=large)

Source: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1287877621380837378
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 06, 2021, 04:58:07 PM
Neither side would have gotten the same turnout in November without Trump. A lot of alternate histories without Trump or with a different Trump are possible; it's not clear how to judge their likely effects. But, as Lindsey Graham warned in May of 2016, "If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed.......and we will deserve it." Fact check: True.

Gonna go out on a limb and say that Donald Trump will not pivot to being presidential in the remaining 14 days of his term.

STFU, shill. You and HappyFuck are the biggest cocksuckers on this site.

Brad, you're such a little bitch. You need to put a cork back in your ass, because it's leaking your Fascist lord's cum all down your leg.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 06, 2021, 05:01:11 PM
Greetings!

Nancy Polosi's office has been taken. Evidently she left in such haste, she left her computer open. Patriots are reading her Emails right now, and searching her computer.

Capital Police have attempted to use mace, tear gas and batons. Whistles blowing loudly, all to no avail. Tens of thousands of Patriots marching everywhere. American flags waving like great forests. Other scenes show police merely standing by, watching as Patriots march and pour about. Police do not seem eager to be violent in general.

Thundering roars of USA! USA! USA!

More singing of the National Anthem! Thousands singing all in unison!

Entire Capital building looks like it is overwhelmed and thoroughly occupied by Patriots!

So many huge crowds everywhere! Men, women, all chanting!

MAGA!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Your patriots are criminals. They should be dealt with as such. Those that encourage their criminal behavior, like you SHARKtopussy, are criminals too.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 06, 2021, 05:05:22 PM
Your patriots are criminals. They should be dealt with as such. Those that encourage their criminal behavior--like you SHARKtopussy, are criminals too.

Oh, now you hate criminal behaviour?

I bet that 180 narrative spin must have hurt.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 06, 2021, 05:08:56 PM
BLM and these deranged "patriots" are the same thing. Anyone defending this is a hypocrite.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 06, 2021, 05:09:45 PM
Your patriots are criminals. They should be dealt with as such. Those that encourage their criminal behavior--like you SHARKtopussy, are criminals too.

Oh, now you hate criminal behaviour?

I bet that 180 narrative spin must have hurt.
When have I ever supported criminal behavior, you lying sack of pus? Get your fucking story straight, jackhole. I have always opposed violent criminal behavior and the encouraging of it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on January 06, 2021, 05:20:10 PM
BLM and these deranged "patriots" are the same thing. Anyone defending this is a hypocrite.
Protesting (even with some rioting) and attempted insurrection are hardly the same thing. I hope that each of today's traitors are convicted and get the full 10 years in a Federal prison. As they deserve.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 06, 2021, 05:48:05 PM
I was sleeping. Did anything interesting happen?

Oh, they're going to impeach Trump again? This must be a day ending in Y.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 06, 2021, 05:49:24 PM
BLM and these deranged "patriots" are the same thing. Anyone defending this is a hypocrite.
Protesting (even with some rioting) and attempted insurrection are hardly the same thing. I hope that each of today's traitors are convicted and get the full 10 years in a Federal prison. As they deserve.
Say when, pussy.

We watched for eight months as actual fucking insurrections took place in leftist-controlled urban hellholes. And NOW you drag out your 'omg this is terrible convict all dese traiters'.

I hope this was worth it. The next guy won't be Trump. He'll most likely be Pinochet.

Have fun with that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 05:59:01 PM
Greetings!

Right Side Broadcasting Network has a news team reporting live from the steps of the Capital building, in Washington, DC.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 06, 2021, 06:00:02 PM
EVERYONE!
WELCOME TO GLORIOUS DESPAIR!

(https://i.ibb.co/VjVJhtJ/JANSIXTTO.png)
Enjoy the shitshow!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Arthur Frayn on January 06, 2021, 06:01:03 PM
I was sleeping. Did anything interesting happen?

Not much.  Kim Kardashian and Kanye West are getting a divorce, and some fuckstain terrorists attempted a coup of the United States government to subvert democracy but didn't. Oh, yeah, and there's a big sale on the classic Archie comics if you're into that kind of thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on January 06, 2021, 06:05:36 PM
We watched for eight months as actual fucking insurrections took place in leftist-controlled urban hellholes. And NOW you drag out your 'omg this is terrible convict all dese traiters'.
Show me one single post I made in support of rioting this summer. Just one.

Yeah you can't.

Trump and his Trumpkins have shown they aren't the party of law and order. They are the party of lies and chaos.

[edit]And now we know that the woman who was shot inside the Capitol Building during this riot has died.


<snip>

Semper FidelisMentiri,

SHARK

Fixed that sig for you.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 06, 2021, 06:09:41 PM
BLM and these deranged "patriots" are the same thing. Anyone defending this is a hypocrite.
Protesting (even with some rioting) and attempted insurrection are hardly the same thing. I hope that each of today's traitors are convicted and get the full 10 years in a Federal prison. As they deserve.

I agree. "Left" wing extremist violence is always justified, but "Right" wing extremist violence (even with none of them actually attacking anyone*; just entering a government building paid for by their tax dollars) never is.

This isn't a double standard or blind partisanship, it's simply the natural order of things.

I hope today's protesters get the same prison sentence most of the mostly peaceful rioters destroying American cities for the past 4+ years (this was already happening before Trump) got. As they deserve (more than the rioters who never got prison time).


*the only one attacked (and apparently killed) from what I've gathered so far was a Trump supporting woman who got shot by the guards. The people surrounding her didn't even attack the guards in outrage (at least from the clip I saw).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 06:16:18 PM
BLM and these deranged "patriots" are the same thing. Anyone defending this is a hypocrite.
Protesting (even with some rioting) and attempted insurrection are hardly the same thing. I hope that each of today's traitors are convicted and get the full 10 years in a Federal prison. As they deserve.
Say when, pussy.

We watched for eight months as actual fucking insurrections took place in leftist-controlled urban hellholes. And NOW you drag out your 'omg this is terrible convict all dese traiters'.

I hope this was worth it. The next guy won't be Trump. He'll most likely be Pinochet.

Have fun with that.

Greetings!

Well said, my friend! The resistance is growing, day by day.

The patriots gathered together in the capital today were unarmed and peaceful, while growing angry and disgusted with the fucking Marxist traitor scum stealing our elections, and subverting our sacred Republic.

I imagine that the time for being nice and sweet to all of the cock-sucking Marxist traitors in our country will soon come to an end.

The next time a million and more Patriots march to the capital, they may well be armed and not in the mood to be peaceful.

That is when the THUNDER will be called down on the pussy Marxists, and the weak cucks so eager to get on their fucking knees to tyranny.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 06, 2021, 06:17:08 PM
We watched for eight months as actual fucking insurrections took place in leftist-controlled urban hellholes. And NOW you drag out your 'omg this is terrible convict all dese traiters'.
Show me one single post I made in support of rioting this summer. Just one.

Yeah you can't.

Trump and his Trumpkins have shown they aren't the party of law and order. They are the party of lies and chaos.

[edit]And now we know that the woman who was shot inside the Capitol Building during this riot has died.


<snip>

Semper FidelisMentiri,

SHARK

Fixed that sig for you.
Oh, WOW!
You must be in sooo much  DESPAIR, you don't know what you're saying anymore!!!1!
Mentiri:
Mentiri, also known as Kampong Mentiri (Malay: Kampung Mentiri), is a village in Brunei-Muara District, Brunei. It is one of the villages under the mukim or subdistrict of the same name. The current village head is Bujang bin Sabtu.[1] Mentiri has an area of 322.29 hectares (796.4 acres).[2] In 2012, it had a population of 1,121.[3] It is also a designated postcode area with the postcode BU1929.[4]

from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentiri
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 06:21:12 PM
We watched for eight months as actual fucking insurrections took place in leftist-controlled urban hellholes. And NOW you drag out your 'omg this is terrible convict all dese traiters'.
Show me one single post I made in support of rioting this summer. Just one.

Yeah you can't.

Trump and his Trumpkins have shown they aren't the party of law and order. They are the party of lies and chaos.

[edit]And now we know that the woman who was shot inside the Capitol Building during this riot has died.


<snip>

Semper FidelisMentiri,

SHARK

Fixed that sig for you.

Greetings!

Semper Mentiri? Get fucked.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on January 06, 2021, 06:22:36 PM
I agree. "Left" wing extremist violence is always justified, but "Right" wing extremist violence (even with none of them actually attacking anyone*; just entering a government building paid for by their tax dollars) never is.
*the only one attacked (and apparently killed) from what I've gathered so far was a Trump supporting woman who got shot by the guards. The people surrounding her didn't even attack the guards in outrage (at least from the clip I saw).

The protesters might not be killing people, but they are vandalizing the Capitol. From what I understand, this is the most significant breach of the Capitol in over 200 years -- since it was burned down by the British in 1814. I opposed violently storming and vandalizing local police stations like in Portland -- so I think it's completely consistent to also oppose violently storming and vandalizing the frickin Capitol of the United States.



For other links: footage of protesters fighting with a line of police:

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1346903150947655685

A protester carrying the Confederate Battle Flag in the Capitol:

https://twitter.com/corinne_perkins/status/1346929380816166920
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 06, 2021, 06:24:08 PM
I was sleeping. Did anything interesting happen?

Not much.  Kim Kardashian and Kanye West are getting a divorce, and some fuckstain terrorists attempted a coup of the United States government to subvert democracy but didn't. Oh, yeah, and there's a big sale on the classic Archie comics if you're into that kind of thing.
Here is your DESPAIR:
Do you wanna know what they do with terrorists?
They round them up, they and their families.
They put them on trains and take them to the detention facilities.
They take their clothes from them and cut their hair off.
They force them to work without food or shelter or medical care.
They torture them, rape the women, tear the children away from them for medical experiments.
Then, they quietly execute them.
WELCOME TO YOUR NEW WORLD ORDER!
WELCOME TO YOUR DESPAIR!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 06, 2021, 06:30:18 PM
I agree. "Left" wing extremist violence is always justified, but "Right" wing extremist violence (even with none of them actually attacking anyone*; just entering a government building paid for by their tax dollars) never is.
*the only one attacked (and apparently killed) from what I've gathered so far was a Trump supporting woman who got shot by the guards. The people surrounding her didn't even attack the guards in outrage (at least from the clip I saw).

The protesters might not be killing people, but they are vandalizing the Capitol. From what I understand, this is the most significant breach of the Capitol in over 200 years -- since it was burned down by the British in 1814. I opposed violently storming and vandalizing local police stations like in Portland -- so I think it's completely consistent to also oppose violently storming and vandalizing the frickin Capitol of the United States.

I remember BLM supporters saying "They're just things."
And I oppose all violent protest. I think this is yet another inevitable step along this path we're on.
If you're not into prepping, 2021 is the year to start.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on January 06, 2021, 06:32:49 PM
A protester carrying the Confederate Battle Flag in the Capitol:

https://twitter.com/corinne_perkins/status/1346929380816166920
Yeah, that never happened during entire Civil War. But we had a Republican president then who wanted to preserve the Union, not to one trying to tear it apart.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Arthur Frayn on January 06, 2021, 06:33:01 PM
I was sleeping. Did anything interesting happen?

Not much.  Kim Kardashian and Kanye West are getting a divorce, and some fuckstain terrorists attempted a coup of the United States government to subvert democracy but didn't. Oh, yeah, and there's a big sale on the classic Archie comics if you're into that kind of thing.
Here is your DESPAIR:
Do you wanna know what they do with terrorists?
They round them up, they and their families.
They put them on trains and take them to the detention facilities.
They take their clothes from them and cut their hair off.
They force them to work without food or shelter or medical care.
They torture them, rape the women, tear the children away from them for medical experiments.
Then, they quietly execute them.
WELCOME TO YOUR NEW WORLD ORDER!
WELCOME TO YOUR DESPAIR!!!

Uhhh...  I didn't quite follow that or how it relates, but I would totally hire you to write some lyrics for our next album because THAT sounds pretty fuckin' metal dude.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 06:36:12 PM
Greetings!

Ghostmaker, in the video I posted above, there is a massive crowd of Patriots loudly chanting, "FUCK THE TRAITORS! FUCK THE TRAITORS! FUCK THE TRAITORS!"

Just imagine when the Patriots decide that the traitors in our midst are DONE.

It looks like it's coming.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snark Knight on January 06, 2021, 06:36:42 PM
I'm surprised just how easy it was for them to breach the building. I'd have expected those windows to not budge to anything but industrial equipment.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Bren on January 06, 2021, 06:37:10 PM
I remember BLM supporters saying "They're just things."
I'm sure some did say that. It's a big country you can always find someone to say something stupid.

Some good news: our representatives are going back to work to do their Constitutionally appointed duty. (Well most of them will. Some may not.)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 06, 2021, 06:40:41 PM
I remember BLM supporters saying "They're just things."
I'm sure some did say that. It's a big country you can always find someone to say something stupid.

Some good news: our representatives are going back to work to do their Constitutionally appointed duty. (Well most of them will. Some may not.)
Your DESPAIR:
If it isn't in the HOUSE, it isn't LEGAL.
(thank me l8r! ) :)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 06, 2021, 06:43:46 PM

Just imagine when the Patriots decide that the traitors in our midst are DONE.

Yes, you just keep imagining that... And then you'll cry like a bitch when you realize the true patriots are not the criminals you endorse. You are a sad-sack, pathetic excuse for Marine, and real patriots will see it. And you'll go down like every other shark in Jaws did--like a bitch.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 06, 2021, 06:52:48 PM
I remember BLM supporters saying "They're just things."
I'm sure some did say that. It's a big country you can always find someone to say something stupid.

Some good news: our representatives are going back to work to do their Constitutionally appointed duty. (Well most of them will. Some may not.)
Your DESPAIR:
If it isn't in the HOUSE, it isn't LEGAL.
(thank me l8r! ) :)

I mean, you have a perfect track record of not being right about anything so far...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 06:56:25 PM

Just imagine when the Patriots decide that the traitors in our midst are DONE.

Yes, you just keep imagining that... And then you'll cry like a bitch when you realize the true patriots are not the criminals you endorse. You are a sad-sack, pathetic excuse for Marine, and real patriots will see it. And you'll go down like every other shark in Jaws did--like a bitch.

Greetings!

Fuck off, you weak, sobbing little bitch. You are nothing but a sniveling cockroach.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 06, 2021, 07:01:44 PM
I remember BLM supporters saying "They're just things."
I'm sure some did say that. It's a big country you can always find someone to say something stupid.

You sure can.

https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/blm-looting-protest-vandalism/
https://www.newamerica.org/weekly/black-lives-matter-more-property/
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2020/06/9848604/looting-stores-protests-message-black-lives-matter
https://www.forbes.com/sites/morgansimon/2020/06/01/stop-focusing-on-looting-and-start-focusing-on-police-accountability/?sh=1872a9fc6c1a
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/opinion/george-floyd-protests-looting.html

(Forbes and NYT are behind paywalls.)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 06, 2021, 07:04:02 PM
Your patriots are criminals. They should be dealt with as such. Those that encourage their criminal behavior--like you SHARKtopussy, are criminals too.

Oh, now you hate criminal behaviour?

I bet that 180 narrative spin must have hurt.
When have I ever supported criminal behavior, you lying sack of pus? Get your fucking story straight, jackhole. I have always opposed violent criminal behavior and the encouraging of it.

You never say anything against criminal behaviour you ignorant warthog faced buffoon.  And now suddenly the pearls come out so you can clutch them while crying into your tea you miserable, vomitous mass.

So just go back to smelling your elderberries.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 06, 2021, 07:05:38 PM
Greetings!

Ghostmaker, in the video I posted above, there is a massive crowd of Patriots loudly chanting, "FUCK THE TRAITORS! FUCK THE TRAITORS! FUCK THE TRAITORS!"

Just imagine when the Patriots decide that the traitors in our midst are DONE.

It looks like it's coming.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Shark,

My guess (and hopefully I'm wrong) is that we're going to see something akin to the Troubles in Ireland.

As I put it elsewhere, let's assume Trump has 70 million supporters (probably more, but 70 million is a nice round number).

If only a half-percent of those decide to get froggy, that's 375,000 hostiles.

The Provos (Provisional Irish Republican Army) was thought to number no more than ten thousand, tops.

How secure is Portland's electrical grid? How secure is LA's water supply? How does New York heat itself in the winter?

I mean, Bren, HappyDerp, Tubesnake Boogie, all seem to be eager to stick their dick in the crazy. Maybe they should understand what the stakes could be. Especially when the rules are off the table.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 06, 2021, 07:09:37 PM
I'm surprised just how easy it was for them to breach the building. I'd have expected those windows to not budge to anything but industrial equipment.

Maybe they should have used that 10 million earmarked for gender studies in Pakistan for renovations?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 06, 2021, 07:31:30 PM
Buh bye, Mitch.

Couldn't happen to a worse human being.

Of course it could, but happening to Mitch is still pretty good.

No. There are worse people, but since they're not Senate Majority Leader this could not happen to them.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 06, 2021, 07:32:07 PM
I was sleeping. Did anything interesting happen?

Not much.  Kim Kardashian and Kanye West are getting a divorce, and some fuckstain terrorists attempted a coup of the United States government to subvert democracy but didn't. Oh, yeah, and there's a big sale on the classic Archie comics if you're into that kind of thing.

What, no link to the Archie comics sale?

Welcome to theRPGsite, Arthur Frayn.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 06, 2021, 07:36:08 PM

Just imagine when the Patriots decide that the traitors in our midst are DONE.

Yes, you just keep imagining that... And then you'll cry like a bitch when you realize the true patriots are not the criminals you endorse. You are a sad-sack, pathetic excuse for Marine, and real patriots will see it. And you'll go down like every other shark in Jaws did--like a bitch.

Greetings!

Fuck off, you weak, sobbing little bitch. You are nothing but a sniveling cockroach.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Being called names by a traitor to the legitimate government of the USA almost makes me feel...patriotic! Except that you're an all-talk, do-nothing little bitch, so your words mean less than a fart in the wind to me.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 06, 2021, 07:38:22 PM
Your patriots are criminals. They should be dealt with as such. Those that encourage their criminal behavior--like you SHARKtopussy, are criminals too.

Oh, now you hate criminal behaviour?

I bet that 180 narrative spin must have hurt.
When have I ever supported criminal behavior, you lying sack of pus? Get your fucking story straight, jackhole. I have always opposed violent criminal behavior and the encouraging of it.

You never say anything against criminal behaviour you ignorant warthog faced buffoon.  And now suddenly the pearls come out so you can clutch them while crying into your tea you miserable, vomitous mass.

So just go back to smelling your elderberries.
Oh, you poor dear, you can't read. I have spoken out against violence many times. It's a big part of why I butt heads with SHARK and his embracing of it is why I think he's such a pathetic loser.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 06, 2021, 07:39:21 PM
Greetings!

Ghostmaker, in the video I posted above, there is a massive crowd of Patriots loudly chanting, "FUCK THE TRAITORS! FUCK THE TRAITORS! FUCK THE TRAITORS!"

Just imagine when the Patriots decide that the traitors in our midst are DONE.

It looks like it's coming.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Shark,

My guess (and hopefully I'm wrong) is that we're going to see something akin to the Troubles in Ireland.

As I put it elsewhere, let's assume Trump has 70 million supporters (probably more, but 70 million is a nice round number).

If only a half-percent of those decide to get froggy, that's 375,000 hostiles.

The Provos (Provisional Irish Republican Army) was thought to number no more than ten thousand, tops.

How secure is Portland's electrical grid? How secure is LA's water supply? How does New York heat itself in the winter?

I mean, Bren, HappyDerp, Tubesnake Boogie, all seem to be eager to stick their dick in the crazy. Maybe they should understand what the stakes could be. Especially when the rules are off the table.
What you gonna do tough guy? Type at me some more?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Arthur Frayn on January 06, 2021, 07:43:29 PM
I was sleeping. Did anything interesting happen?

Not much.  Kim Kardashian and Kanye West are getting a divorce, and some fuckstain terrorists attempted a coup of the United States government to subvert democracy but didn't. Oh, yeah, and there's a big sale on the classic Archie comics if you're into that kind of thing.

What, no link to the Archie comics sale?

Welcome to theRPGsite, Arthur Frayn.

Thanks man.  I'm actually a longtime lurker and I *think* I had an account here ages ago but I can't remember what my user name or password would have been but that old computer is long gone and I'm probably locked out of whatever email I would have used back then anyway.

Without going into detail, I'll just say that events at that "other" RPG site have inspired me to look for a new home.  And I'll say no more about that.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 07:47:33 PM
Greetings!

Ghostmaker, in the video I posted above, there is a massive crowd of Patriots loudly chanting, "FUCK THE TRAITORS! FUCK THE TRAITORS! FUCK THE TRAITORS!"

Just imagine when the Patriots decide that the traitors in our midst are DONE.

It looks like it's coming.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Shark,

My guess (and hopefully I'm wrong) is that we're going to see something akin to the Troubles in Ireland.

As I put it elsewhere, let's assume Trump has 70 million supporters (probably more, but 70 million is a nice round number).

If only a half-percent of those decide to get froggy, that's 375,000 hostiles.

The Provos (Provisional Irish Republican Army) was thought to number no more than ten thousand, tops.

How secure is Portland's electrical grid? How secure is LA's water supply? How does New York heat itself in the winter?

I mean, Bren, HappyDerp, Tubesnake Boogie, all seem to be eager to stick their dick in the crazy. Maybe they should understand what the stakes could be. Especially when the rules are off the table.

Greetings!

Indeed, Ghostmaker, I agree. I'm relaxing here at home, smoking my pipe and enjoying some fine coffee, watching several different live videos of the day's events. The Troubles in Ireland was no joke--and often got very bloody and vicious. I hope that it doesn't get to that, my friend! During the Troubles, it was a routine experience for people to be blown the fuck up, caught and beat to death in an alley, kidnapped, tortured, and killed, then dumped in a roadside ditch. Gunned the fuck down in a blaze of gunfire in broad daylight while sitting at a café for lunch, and more. Men, women, kids, everyone on the wrong side became a target. There were no "safe spaces".

The brainwashed cucks you mention that are so eager to stick their dick in crazy--*Laughing* Yeah, isn't that the truth? I am certainly committed and willing to defend myself and my community, and to defend our rights, and our Republic. You remember our oath--"Against all enemies, foreign and domestic, I'm sure. I always remember our sacred and righteous duty. Sticking your dick in crazy can often go very, very bad. I know some vets though, like some friends of mine back in the day, that have this terrifying kind of switch inside them. Everything can seem normal, then some tough guy runs his mouth and threatens them or does something really stupid, and the beasts barely blink. They don't talk about it, or even think about it, they just lock and load and shoot the fucker right there in the parking lot, or follow them to their house and firebomb them, and then light up a smoke afterwards. No emotion, no second thoughts, no worrying about your family--they feel like you are a threat to them, and you are fucking done. They are definitely not the kind of crazy you stick your dick into! *Laughing*

I sometimes laugh knowing that there's some very good reasons why guys like that often have isolated jobs where they work alone most of the time, or why they live in some small house way out in the edge of nowhere--they consciously or unconsciously make certain choices to avoid or minimize conflict. Make people like them feel threatened, and things tend to get ugly very fast.

If more and more of the country feels like their votes don't matter, like their rights are being taken away, well, yeah. The fucking brainwashed pussies can stand the fuck by. Millions of Americans are not going to get on their fucking knees for Marxism.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 06, 2021, 08:00:36 PM
Your patriots are criminals. They should be dealt with as such. Those that encourage their criminal behavior--like you SHARKtopussy, are criminals too.

Oh, now you hate criminal behaviour?

I bet that 180 narrative spin must have hurt.
When have I ever supported criminal behavior, you lying sack of pus? Get your fucking story straight, jackhole. I have always opposed violent criminal behavior and the encouraging of it.

You never say anything against criminal behaviour you ignorant warthog faced buffoon.  And now suddenly the pearls come out so you can clutch them while crying into your tea you miserable, vomitous mass.

So just go back to smelling your elderberries.
Oh, you poor dear, you can't read. I have spoken out against violence many times. It's a big part of why I butt heads with SHARK and his embracing of it is why I think he's such a pathetic loser.

You are well known for it.

Oh wait, no that was shitting your pants every time you see someone not wearing a mask.  That is what you are well known for.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 06, 2021, 08:03:54 PM
Without going into detail, I'll just say that events at that "other" RPG site have inspired me to look for a new home.  And I'll say no more about that.

Welcome!

And suit yourself. We occasionally have a hate thread when that other site does something spectacularly stupid.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 06, 2021, 08:11:02 PM
https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1346934098384793606

This would be so good if it happened.

Come on, do eeet!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 06, 2021, 08:12:47 PM

Just imagine when the Patriots decide that the traitors in our midst are DONE.

Yes, you just keep imagining that... And then you'll cry like a bitch when you realize the true patriots are not the criminals you endorse. You are a sad-sack, pathetic excuse for Marine, and real patriots will see it. And you'll go down like every other shark in Jaws did--like a bitch.

Greetings!

Fuck off, you weak, sobbing little bitch. You are nothing but a sniveling cockroach.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Being called names by a traitor to the legitimate government of the USA almost makes me feel...patriotic! Except that you're an all-talk, do-nothing little bitch, so your words mean less than a fart in the wind to me.

Greetings!

*Laughing* "All-talk, do-nothing little bitch" huh? You're such a toughguy! You really don't know me at all. Face to face, I'm not worried about a pathetic, flaccid jackass like you in the least. As for being an "All-talk, do-nothing little bitch", I think that title fits you very well, especially since YOU are the obnoxious fuckstick that has been verbally attacking and insulting many forum members here for quite some time now, unprovoked and without merit whatsoever.

I often voice my opinions about types of people, politically, or whatever. I defend myself from people that make personal attacks or insults towards me--like gibbering, cock-sucking morons like you.

I don't go around screeching insults at individual people and acting like a fucking ill-mannered, retarded baboon. That is a prestige class that you have earned all on your own.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 06, 2021, 08:20:41 PM
Who do I call about a severe case of whiplash?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFgj6TWMAE-t2j?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Arkansan on January 06, 2021, 08:23:11 PM
Watching the media meltdown on this has been delicious. Sadly though their target audience will buy in to the idea that the other side's riots are totally peaceful non events but this is just unacceptable.

Regardless of which side you are on I think it should be clear that we are not going back to the previous political norm any time soon. The interesting thing here is that the split is at ground level. It's one thing when politicians can't work together or have a conversation, but now broad swathes of the American public are at the point that they have nothing to say to one another. They have fundamentally different world views that do not co-exist well. Both sides have also shown a simmering discontent with the mainstream of their party, people forget that Bernie was an insurgent candidate in the Democrat party and made a damned strong showing in the 2015 primaries. Trump was an insurgent candidate in the Republican field and managed to to take both the primary and the national election. Now you have one side that has largely lost all faith in the function of the system and the validity of the results that system produces. To top it off the consistent "peaceful" protests of the past year combined with the skirmishing at rally's and events of the past four years has begun to normalize political violence.

There is a sea change in motion in the American political landscape and I think people haven't fully grasped yet just how wide ranging the consequences will be.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on January 06, 2021, 08:30:47 PM
At the rally in Washington, DC just s bit ago, a Constitutional lawyer reached the stage with Rudi Juliani and described how the Democrats used the voting machine algorithyms to engage in fraud and subvert the Senate election in Georgia. This has evidently been observed in real time last night, and the team with President Trump understands very clearly how the Democrats have embraced fraud and corruption in the Senate election last night, and in the same manner that they embraced fraud and corruption on the 2020 Election on November 3, 2020.

Are you saying you consider the word of the *lawyer* to constitute serious evidence?!?  Previously there was a lot of big talk about how the Kraken was going to show everyone, convince judges, and disrupt the election. But now it seems like standards have slipped to the word of a lawyer and Twitter posters.


Tomorrow will be the counting in Congress. Without any successful court challenges, I don't see the legal grounds for blocking the vote. I think it's still worth discussing about the claims of various sources - like whether there really was a special forces raid in Germany for those servers and the results, or other points.

There wasn't, and what's more, the company that was supposedly raided has responded to this BS. They don't even have any offices in Germany. It's not worth discussing that any more than it is any of the other lies being spewed by the biggest bunch of sore loser crybabies in the history of US politics.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH... the lack of self awareness in this comment is epic. You seem to forget the the constant last 4 years of Democrats spewing lies and spinning conspiracies.... because they couldn't get over the results of an election. Pot meet kettle, what a dishonest floater you are.

So shuddemell, do you think that the raid in Germany happened?

As for Democrats, there are plenty of unverified claims regarding Russian interference on social media. However, the Democrats claiming Russian interference at least have some court cases on their side: the convictions of Flynn, Manafort, Papadopolous, Cohen, and Gates. And they have the Mueller report and other official statements from the DOJ and FBI - which don't implicate Trump personally, but have detailed Russian efforts to manipulate the election that include people in Trump's administration.

By contrast, the fraud claims from Trump have been more far-reaching, and have less verified evidence to show. There are a few dozen witnesses, but even the top selection of these have not convinced judges or election officials. Trump has been President of the United States for four years, and he has appointed a ton of judges and officials - yet even his own appointments (like William Barr) have largely not supported him in his claims.

Greetings!

I described what I saw of the live coverage of the Save America rally in Washington, DC. The man was introduced as one of the top Constitutional lawyers in the country, and listened to his description and analysis, in brief, of how the machines engaged in fraud. The Democrats are lying, corrupt scum that have engaged in a disgraceful litany of lies, fraud, corruption, and malice virtually every day over the last four years--and the Democrats have been subverted and corrupted by God-hating Marxists. I have been convinced that the Democrats have embraced corruption and fraud through a preponderance of evidence--signed affidavits, testimonies, statistical analysis, computer analysis, video footage, and what I saw on the night of the election. I support President Trump, and believe that our President loves America, and has been fighting the corrupt swamp so as to make America great. President Trump is fighting for TRUTH, and for America. I believe that President Trump won the 2020 election lawfully and fairly, and the corrupt Democrats and RINOS have worked to steal the 2020 Election from President Trump, and from the American people. Our sacred Republic is at risk, and all patriotic Americans should resist the Marxist Democrat fraud and subversion of our election and our country.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Wow, scary stuff. This is virtually verbatim from the fascist textbook.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on January 06, 2021, 08:31:37 PM
Haven't posted in a while to avoid all the fucking retarded CCP shills. Here is a video as a massive fuck you to anyone who said "you won't do anything".

Currently loading magazines, faggots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENPkiDl6Wdg

And this is just crazy.

Were you at the failed coup attempt, Brad?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Arkansan on January 06, 2021, 08:34:25 PM
At the rally in Washington, DC just s bit ago, a Constitutional lawyer reached the stage with Rudi Juliani and described how the Democrats used the voting machine algorithyms to engage in fraud and subvert the Senate election in Georgia. This has evidently been observed in real time last night, and the team with President Trump understands very clearly how the Democrats have embraced fraud and corruption in the Senate election last night, and in the same manner that they embraced fraud and corruption on the 2020 Election on November 3, 2020.

Are you saying you consider the word of the *lawyer* to constitute serious evidence?!?  Previously there was a lot of big talk about how the Kraken was going to show everyone, convince judges, and disrupt the election. But now it seems like standards have slipped to the word of a lawyer and Twitter posters.


Tomorrow will be the counting in Congress. Without any successful court challenges, I don't see the legal grounds for blocking the vote. I think it's still worth discussing about the claims of various sources - like whether there really was a special forces raid in Germany for those servers and the results, or other points.

There wasn't, and what's more, the company that was supposedly raided has responded to this BS. They don't even have any offices in Germany. It's not worth discussing that any more than it is any of the other lies being spewed by the biggest bunch of sore loser crybabies in the history of US politics.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH... the lack of self awareness in this comment is epic. You seem to forget the the constant last 4 years of Democrats spewing lies and spinning conspiracies.... because they couldn't get over the results of an election. Pot meet kettle, what a dishonest floater you are.

So shuddemell, do you think that the raid in Germany happened?

As for Democrats, there are plenty of unverified claims regarding Russian interference on social media. However, the Democrats claiming Russian interference at least have some court cases on their side: the convictions of Flynn, Manafort, Papadopolous, Cohen, and Gates. And they have the Mueller report and other official statements from the DOJ and FBI - which don't implicate Trump personally, but have detailed Russian efforts to manipulate the election that include people in Trump's administration.

By contrast, the fraud claims from Trump have been more far-reaching, and have less verified evidence to show. There are a few dozen witnesses, but even the top selection of these have not convinced judges or election officials. Trump has been President of the United States for four years, and he has appointed a ton of judges and officials - yet even his own appointments (like William Barr) have largely not supported him in his claims.

Greetings!

I described what I saw of the live coverage of the Save America rally in Washington, DC. The man was introduced as one of the top Constitutional lawyers in the country, and listened to his description and analysis, in brief, of how the machines engaged in fraud. The Democrats are lying, corrupt scum that have engaged in a disgraceful litany of lies, fraud, corruption, and malice virtually every day over the last four years--and the Democrats have been subverted and corrupted by God-hating Marxists. I have been convinced that the Democrats have embraced corruption and fraud through a preponderance of evidence--signed affidavits, testimonies, statistical analysis, computer analysis, video footage, and what I saw on the night of the election. I support President Trump, and believe that our President loves America, and has been fighting the corrupt swamp so as to make America great. President Trump is fighting for TRUTH, and for America. I believe that President Trump won the 2020 election lawfully and fairly, and the corrupt Democrats and RINOS have worked to steal the 2020 Election from President Trump, and from the American people. Our sacred Republic is at risk, and all patriotic Americans should resist the Marxist Democrat fraud and subversion of our election and our country.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Wow, scary stuff. This is virtually verbatim from the fascist textbook.

For heaven's sake Fascism is a specific ideology with a specific definition, you can't honestly call anything you don't like fascist. Throwing the term around like you are just reduces the impact of it.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on January 06, 2021, 08:39:26 PM
For heaven's sake Fascism is a specific ideology with a specific definition, you can't honestly call anything you don't like fascist. Throwing the term around like you are just reduces the impact of it.

I'm not "throwing it around" and I rarely use it. But Shark's "America Rah Rah, kill all the Marxists" rap is very much part of the totalitarian playbook. Get rid of anyone different, anyone who doesn't believe in the Fearless Leader, or as I do.

But perhaps "fascism" gives them too much credit. Trump is a wannabe fascist at this point, and his followers are like ignorant lemmings.

p.s. I didn't say Fascist, I said fascist (small f). Fascism is a specific ideology, but fascism has at least two definitions. I'm using the latter:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

"a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control."
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on January 06, 2021, 09:00:53 PM
creating a small-f definition doesn’t turn the nonsensical, sensical.  By that standard 99% of all governments in history were “fascist”; it turns something from an aberration into the overwhelming historical norm.

Which would be very stupid rhetoric, and why it’s not surprising that #2 definition was created (probably within the last 10 years).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 06, 2021, 09:09:53 PM
Haven't posted in a while to avoid all the fucking retarded CCP shills. Here is a video as a massive fuck you to anyone who said "you won't do anything".

Currently loading magazines, faggots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENPkiDl6Wdg

And this is just crazy.

Were you at the failed coup attempt, Brad?

Please, Brad cried to the DTRPG mods when I needled him there about a review he left. You think he could be at a scene like that without a case of diapers in one hand, and his mommy's hand in the other?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on January 06, 2021, 09:11:06 PM
Well I think we've finally seen the end of the majority of Trump's prior support.

My parents are staunch Trump supporters, and have been for 4+ years. And this was the point where they finally, FINALLY were able to condemn him and regret their decision to support him.

And if they reacted that way, I can only imagine that response is happening across the nation tonight. Because they were hardcore supporters. 30 years of listening to right wing talk radio, constantly arguing with those who disagreed (in a logical and reasoned manner). And this was the day they decided enough was enough and they couldn't support him anymore.

I don't think he can successfully get the nomination ever again. I think this was, finally, the breaking point.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on January 06, 2021, 09:12:56 PM
creating a small-f definition doesn’t turn the nonsensical, sensical.  By that standard 99% of all governments in history were “fascist”; it turns something from an aberration into the overwhelming historical norm.

Which would be very stupid rhetoric, and why it’s not surprising that #2 definition was created (probably within the last 10 years).

I doubt it. It isn't unlike Libertarian vs. libertarian, or any other number of things. The latter (fascist) is a matter of degree, so yes, most governments involve some degree of fascist tendencies.

But it is quite one thing to have flavors of authoritarianism, quite another to raid the capitol and try to subvert the Constitution.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on January 06, 2021, 09:13:20 PM
Haven't posted in a while to avoid all the fucking retarded CCP shills. Here is a video as a massive fuck you to anyone who said "you won't do anything".

Currently loading magazines, faggots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENPkiDl6Wdg

And this is just crazy.

Were you at the failed coup attempt, Brad?

Please, Brad cried to the DTRPG mods when I needled him there about a review he left. You think he could be at a scene like that without a case of diapers in one hand, and his mommy's hand in the other?

That's kind of sad.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on January 06, 2021, 09:15:05 PM
Well I think we've finally seen the end of the majority of Trump's prior support.

My parents are staunch Trump supporters, and have been for 4+ years. And this was the point where they finally, FINALLY were able to condemn him and regret their decision to support him.

And if they reacted that way, I can only imagine that response is happening across the nation tonight. Because they were hardcore supporters. 30 years of listening to right wing talk radio, constantly arguing with those who disagreed (in a logical and reasoned manner). And this was the day they decided enough was enough and they couldn't support him anymore.

I don't think he can successfully get the nomination ever again. I think this was, finally, the breaking point.

I hadn't thought of that (your first point) and you are probably right. He'll always have his worshippers, but I think he'll lose more and more of the garden variety of conservatives who, in the end, believe in having a somewhat democratic society.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 06, 2021, 09:54:04 PM
Haven't posted in a while to avoid all the fucking retarded CCP shills. Here is a video as a massive fuck you to anyone who said "you won't do anything".

Currently loading magazines, faggots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENPkiDl6Wdg

And this is just crazy.

Were you at the failed coup attempt, Brad?

Only in his character sheet.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 06, 2021, 09:54:58 PM
I hadn't thought of that (your first point) and you are probably right. He'll always have his worshippers, but I think he'll lose more and more of the garden variety of conservatives who, in the end, believe in having a somewhat democratic society.

I think those garden variety conservatives will enjoy what is coming down the pike and regret their support of Trump at their leisure.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 06, 2021, 09:59:37 PM
BLM and these deranged "patriots" are the same thing. Anyone defending this is a hypocrite.
Protesting (even with some rioting) and attempted insurrection are hardly the same thing. I hope that each of today's traitors are convicted and get the full 10 years in a Federal prison. As they deserve.

Why don't you defund the police now bitches.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 06, 2021, 10:00:25 PM
The gift that keeps on giving.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFmfNnVkAEwZT6?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 06, 2021, 10:03:15 PM

We watched for eight months as actual fucking insurrections took place in leftist-controlled urban hellholes. And NOW you drag out your 'omg this is terrible convict all dese traiters'.

I hope this was worth it. The next guy won't be Trump. He'll most likely be Pinochet.

Have fun with that.

I guess the people get the government they deserve. Just a bunch of bickering children on both sides, while the politicians do the bidding of the rich & powerful.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 06, 2021, 10:07:40 PM

We watched for eight months as actual fucking insurrections took place in leftist-controlled urban hellholes. And NOW you drag out your 'omg this is terrible convict all dese traiters'.

I hope this was worth it. The next guy won't be Trump. He'll most likely be Pinochet.

Have fun with that.

I guess the people get the government they deserve. Just a bunch of bickering children on both sides, while the politicians do the bidding of the rich & powerful.
That doesn't really sound like much of a "guess" to me. It's more of a basic level reading of the situation at present, and if the "guess" is that it will continue, I put it in with guesses like "I guess the sun will come up tomorrow."
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on January 06, 2021, 10:07:51 PM
Right now the peaceful divorce looks like the best option for all sides.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 06, 2021, 10:09:17 PM
The gift that keeps on giving.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFmfNnVkAEwZT6?format=jpg&name=medium)

To be fair there is an actual difference between those protesting actual injustice, and those attempting to undermine democracy in furtherance of that very injustice...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 06, 2021, 10:13:20 PM
Right now the peaceful divorce looks like the best option for all sides.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on January 06, 2021, 10:18:09 PM
I cannot express how absolutely and utterly PROUD that I am of every patriot who stormed the Capitol today. TODAY showed the entire world that American patriotism still lives.


Leftists, RINOs and "moderates" can all fuck off.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: KingCheops on January 06, 2021, 10:24:22 PM
Frankly I'm shocked to realize just how many British subjects are part of the RPG Site.  The way everyone's so shocked about this you'd think you all didn't fight a war to overthrow a government that wasn't serving you.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 06, 2021, 10:44:10 PM
Frankly I'm shocked to realize just how many British subjects are part of the RPG Site.  The way everyone's so shocked about this you'd think you all didn't fight a war to overthrow a government that wasn't serving you.

Making the King a head shorter is an old favourite British pastime but before Usians time though.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on January 06, 2021, 10:49:39 PM
“Now Trump will finally lose his support”

You do not understand what got him elected.  People who like the post-1990s GOP may split their support, but those are largely the well-off who’ve benefited from their policies.

And that group is getting smaller by the year. 

Trump won because he tapped into something the already existed.  His enemies want to think if only he hadn’t done so, that energy would lay dormant forever.  That’s fantasy.

We’ll see what happens next.  It won’t surprise me if it doesn’t take long before having to pay an extra $1 per shirt in COGS is seen as glory days.

If people are this angry now to react as they have over voting, run through a thought exercise of what the day after attempting to impose “mandatory gun buy-back” looks like.  If Trump wanted to be Caesar, he could pull more people into the streets tomorrow than that which toppled governments in Georgia (the country) or Ukraine.  You want to talk strikes?  Ask yourself who the truckers, plumbers, and construction workers voted for.

Outside of the top 10% (those that vote red and not blue) what I’m seeing everywhere is a lot of people wanting him to do what he’s not been willing to do.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 06, 2021, 10:52:36 PM

We watched for eight months as actual fucking insurrections took place in leftist-controlled urban hellholes. And NOW you drag out your 'omg this is terrible convict all dese traiters'.

I hope this was worth it. The next guy won't be Trump. He'll most likely be Pinochet.

Have fun with that.

I guess the people get the government they deserve. Just a bunch of bickering children on both sides, while the politicians do the bidding of the rich & powerful.

I'm not sure how not storming Capitol Building would have stopped politicians from NOT doing the bidding of the rich & powerful. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's never going to stop until an actual revolution takes place.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on January 06, 2021, 10:58:34 PM

We watched for eight months as actual fucking insurrections took place in leftist-controlled urban hellholes. And NOW you drag out your 'omg this is terrible convict all dese traiters'.

I hope this was worth it. The next guy won't be Trump. He'll most likely be Pinochet.

Have fun with that.

I guess the people get the government they deserve. Just a bunch of bickering children on both sides, while the politicians do the bidding of the rich & powerful.

I'm not sure how not storming Capitol Building would have stopped politicians from NOT doing the bidding of the rich & powerful. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's never going to stop until an actual revolution takes place.

How many revolutions do you know of that actually helped anyone except the power class?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on January 06, 2021, 11:01:26 PM
Poor victors of the US revolution got a lot of free land to settle west of the Alleghenies after 1783.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 06, 2021, 11:08:20 PM

We watched for eight months as actual fucking insurrections took place in leftist-controlled urban hellholes. And NOW you drag out your 'omg this is terrible convict all dese traiters'.

I hope this was worth it. The next guy won't be Trump. He'll most likely be Pinochet.

Have fun with that.

I guess the people get the government they deserve. Just a bunch of bickering children on both sides, while the politicians do the bidding of the rich & powerful.

I'm not sure how not storming Capitol Building would have stopped politicians from NOT doing the bidding of the rich & powerful. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's never going to stop until an actual revolution takes place.

How many revolutions do you know of that actually helped anyone except the power class?

How many politicians have stopped serving the rich and powerful by you continuing to vote them into office? Or by voting someone "different", like AOC?

The government is corrupt to the core. It's not a matter of whether or not revolutions historically have helped common people. It's a matter of this government being beyond saving, and both parties are in on it, and so is the MSM. Which is why we've been in endless wars for decades and the first time the MSM ever sucked Trump's dick was when he dropped a giant bomb (MOAB) in Afghanistan. This government is never going to change voluntarily, and politicians will never stop serving the rich and powerful.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on January 06, 2021, 11:16:59 PM
14 Senators were going to support the objection to the election.
After today, only 6 stuck with that plan.

That proportion looks about right, nationally, for what I think just happened to his overall support. A bit more than half of his former supporters finally said enough is enough. And those 8 Senators saw the way the winds had just changed.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Spinachcat on January 06, 2021, 11:18:39 PM
Outside of the top 10% (those that vote red and not blue) what I’m seeing everywhere is a lot of people wanting him to do what he’s not been willing to do.

The day isn't over yet.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 06, 2021, 11:24:47 PM
The gift that keeps on giving.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFmfNnVkAEwZT6?format=jpg&name=medium)

To be fair there is an actual difference between those protesting actual injustice, and those attempting to undermine democracy in furtherance of that very injustice...

My violence is justified Yours is not.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 06, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Wow!
So many new people posting in this thread!
So many suckling the tit of
DESPAIR!
It makes my privates tingle just reading it!
...
THAT is why I am withholding some new info I got wind of, because it will KILL ALL THIS WONDERFUL
DESPAIR!
I will post it though. But not right away.
I am savouring this too much!
So, therefore, I am placing a link to the BEST SUREFIRE WAY TO MAKE LOADS OF CA$H during these trying and despairing times we are living in right now:
https://youtu.be/kJyovHZG4c4
I'm not sure how it works, but it sure sounds like something EVERYONE HERE would LOVE TO DO!
Have a  :) nice day!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on January 06, 2021, 11:26:50 PM
14 Senators were going to support the objection to the election.
After today, only 6 stuck with that plan.

That proportion looks about right, nationally, for what I think just happened to his overall support. A bit more than half of his former supporters finally said enough is enough. And those 8 Senators saw the way the winds had just changed.

LMAO do you seriously think the senate is a good cross-section of trump supporters, or in any way representative? 

Doctor, heal thy self of wistful fantasies.  People world-wide are angry about what the oligarchs have delivered.

Even in Japan they’re marching for Trump, lol. In Japan.  They know what happens if Wall Street continues humping China for cheap and slave labor.

https://twitter.com/mrjeffu/status/1346744290144206848?s=21

Outside of the top 10% (those that vote red and not blue) what I’m seeing everywhere is a lot of people wanting him to do what he’s not been willing to do.

The day isn't over yet.

This is true.  It’s been a day of the unexpected.  I’m guessing it will be a week of the unexpected
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 06, 2021, 11:27:52 PM
The gift that keeps on giving.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFmfNnVkAEwZT6?format=jpg&name=medium)

To be fair there is an actual difference between those protesting actual injustice, and those attempting to undermine democracy in furtherance of that very injustice...

My violence is justified Yours is not.

Not my point, and not what I said, but nice Strawman.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 06, 2021, 11:30:31 PM
Wow!
So many new people posting in this thread!
So many suckling the tit of
DESPAIR!
It makes my privates tingle just reading it!
...
THAT is why I am withholding some new info I got wind of, because it will KILL ALL THIS WONDERFUL
DESPAIR!
I will post it though. But not right away.
I am savouring this too much!
So, therefore, I am placing a link to the BEST SUREFIRE WAY TO MAKE LOADS OF CA$H during these trying and despairing times we are living in right now:
https://youtu.be/kJyovHZG4c4
I'm not sure how it works, but it sure sounds like something EVERYONE HERE would LOVE TO DO!
Have a  :) nice day!

I'm glad you post here because I can just get crazy ass conspiracy nonsense effortlessly delivered to my computer instead of waiting on random homeless people in convenience store parking lots to hand me napkins with manifestos written on them
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 06, 2021, 11:33:11 PM
The gift that keeps on giving.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFmfNnVkAEwZT6?format=jpg&name=medium)

To be fair there is an actual difference between those protesting actual injustice, and those attempting to undermine democracy in furtherance of that very injustice...

Do you mean actual "actual injustice"?  Or is it "systemic" "actual injustice" that no one can find?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on January 06, 2021, 11:38:58 PM
This is the most hilarious election since the last one.

I'm looking forward to 2024.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 06, 2021, 11:39:55 PM
The gift that keeps on giving.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFmfNnVkAEwZT6?format=jpg&name=medium)

To be fair there is an actual difference between those protesting actual injustice, and those attempting to undermine democracy in furtherance of that very injustice...

My violence is justified Yours is not.

Not my point, and not what I said, but nice Strawman.

My point is everyone feels justified. If you were really being fair, you would put both in the most favorable wording.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 06, 2021, 11:51:29 PM
NEWS FLASH!
THE YEAR OF LOVE AND DESPAIR IS HERE!
I CAN BEARLY STAND IT!
BWA-HAHAHAHAHAH!
=====================
Psyops only work if people are TOO STUPID not to question a NARRATIVE:
https://twitter.com/RealTina40/status/1346576260428926981

Who caused the damage in the Capitol today?
Who actually stormed the Building today?
Who wants anarchy?
Who wants Chaos?
Who promised this would happen so as to villainize their enemies?
Think back to Nov. 3rd
https://twitter.com/intheMatrixxx/status/1346897778132328451
(https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-f43d399/media/bbd2930e3d1aac383aebf52f50803d88.ErEkY5bXMAA-n7R)
They were seen today. How awkward for the DEEP STATE!
https://twitter.com/paulsperry_/status/1346940301307310082
Who will benefit from this?
TRUMP? THE PATRIOTS? THOSE CALLING FOR ELECTION REFORMS?
Modus Operandi in play:
https://twitter.com/BroStreetJoy/status/1346894385359835142
Who deployed the NATIONAL GUARD?
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1346908727111077889
https://twitter.com/PressSec/status/1346918582832168964
Do not give in to lawlessness!
Do not be fooled!
This is far from over!
WWG1WGA!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on January 07, 2021, 12:14:38 AM
Wow Antifa covered their tracks well.  They even made a flyer.  GTFOH.   ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 07, 2021, 12:22:07 AM
NEWS FLASH!
THE YEAR OF LOVE AND DESPAIR IS HERE!
I CAN BEARLY STAND IT!
BWA-HAHAHAHAHAH!
=====================
Psyops only work if people are TOO STUPID not to question a NARRATIVE:
https://twitter.com/RealTina40/status/1346576260428926981

Who caused the damage in the Capitol today?
Who actually stormed the Building today?
Who wants anarchy?
Who wants Chaos?
Who promised this would happen so as to villainize their enemies?
Think back to Nov. 3rd
https://twitter.com/intheMatrixxx/status/1346897778132328451
(https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-f43d399/media/bbd2930e3d1aac383aebf52f50803d88.ErEkY5bXMAA-n7R)
They were seen today. How awkward for the DEEP STATE!
https://twitter.com/paulsperry_/status/1346940301307310082
Who will benefit from this?
TRUMP? THE PATRIOTS? THOSE CALLING FOR ELECTION REFORMS?
Modus Operandi in play:
https://twitter.com/BroStreetJoy/status/1346894385359835142
Who deployed the NATIONAL GUARD?
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1346908727111077889
https://twitter.com/PressSec/status/1346918582832168964
Do not give in to lawlessness!
Do not be fooled!
This is far from over!
WWG1WGA!!!

Speaking of being too stupid to question a narrative...

These type of fakes have been perpetrated before.

There are pictures of known alt-righters like Nick Fuentes and Baked Alaska inside the building, along with many other maskless MAGAs. How dumb, or in your case, mentally ill, do you have to be to fall for this shit?

"A convincing police uniform" lol okay
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Daztur on January 07, 2021, 12:22:42 AM
Yeah and I'm sure the Antifa refers to Trump supporters at "patriots" I mean, come on, at least TRY to get the lingo right.

It's hilarious how half of the Trump fans think that the rioters are false flags because no true Trump fan would support rioting when half of the other Trump supporters on this thread are loudly supporting the rioting. Shroedinger's riot I guess, simultaneously Antifa scum and heroes.

What a clusterfuck, I can't believe any of you fools thinks that this idiotic Beer Hall Putsch Larp will help you in any way.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 07, 2021, 12:24:06 AM
Yeah and I'm sure the Antifa refers to Trump supporters at "patriots" I mean, come on, at least TRY to get the lingo right.

Yeah, that thing is as fake as Trump's tan.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 07, 2021, 12:26:38 AM
The FBI has created an intake website for tips. If you have any knowledge of the identity of any of these chucklefucks, or anything that might help identify and arrest these scum, please go to:

https://tips.fbi.gov/digitalmedia/aad18481a3e8f02
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Daztur on January 07, 2021, 12:32:07 AM
Yeah and I'm sure the Antifa refers to Trump supporters at "patriots" I mean, come on, at least TRY to get the lingo right.

Yeah, that thing is as fake as Trump's tan.

Oh wait, it says "Hickman County Antifa" I'm getting a Hickman County Tennessee and Kentucky, both plenty rural. As if there'd be a large organized Antifa presence based out of a place like that. Come on, what's next the Communist Liberation Army of West Pigsknuckle?

Just how stupid are you Qtards?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mercurius on January 07, 2021, 12:40:08 AM
14 Senators were going to support the objection to the election.
After today, only 6 stuck with that plan.

That proportion looks about right, nationally, for what I think just happened to his overall support. A bit more than half of his former supporters finally said enough is enough. And those 8 Senators saw the way the winds had just changed.

LMAO do you seriously think the senate is a good cross-section of trump supporters, or in any way representative? 

Doctor, heal thy self of wistful fantasies.  People world-wide are angry about what the oligarchs have delivered.

Even in Japan they’re marching for Trump, lol. In Japan.  They know what happens if Wall Street continues humping China for cheap and slave labor.

https://twitter.com/mrjeffu/status/1346744290144206848?s=21

Outside of the top 10% (those that vote red and not blue) what I’m seeing everywhere is a lot of people wanting him to do what he’s not been willing to do.

The day isn't over yet.

This is true.  It’s been a day of the unexpected.  I’m guessing it will be a week of the unexpected

I just love this idea that somehow Trump is a champion against oligarchy.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on January 07, 2021, 12:44:53 AM
LMAO!!!  ;D The flyer even explains the rationale of why they are impersonating Trump supporters!  Seriously the Trumptard who made that thing is a fucking moron.    ::)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on January 07, 2021, 12:49:22 AM
Well you would think Capital Hill would be fortified especially on the sixth of all days.  It was too easy to take over that building is what I am saying.  Perhaps they relaxed security to bait people is my line of thought.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 07, 2021, 12:57:52 AM
Well you would think Capital Hill would be fortified especially on the sixth of all days.  It was too easy to take over that building is what I am saying.  Perhaps they relaxed security to bait people is my line of thought.
Shush! You're making too much sense! You need to be all blustery and flustery so they don't realize what I'm doing! Shush!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on January 07, 2021, 12:58:22 AM
14 Senators were going to support the objection to the election.
After today, only 6 stuck with that plan.

That proportion looks about right, nationally, for what I think just happened to his overall support. A bit more than half of his former supporters finally said enough is enough. And those 8 Senators saw the way the winds had just changed.

LMAO do you seriously think the senate is a good cross-section of trump supporters, or in any way representative? 

Doctor, heal thy self of wistful fantasies.  People world-wide are angry about what the oligarchs have delivered.

Even in Japan they’re marching for Trump, lol. In Japan.  They know what happens if Wall Street continues humping China for cheap and slave labor.

https://twitter.com/mrjeffu/status/1346744290144206848?s=21

Outside of the top 10% (those that vote red and not blue) what I’m seeing everywhere is a lot of people wanting him to do what he’s not been willing to do.

The day isn't over yet.

This is true.  It’s been a day of the unexpected.  I’m guessing it will be a week of the unexpected

I just love this idea that somehow Trump is a champion against oligarchy.

"Rich people who aren't down with globalism?  Impossible!"

Ignoring that we have Mistwell in this very thread stating his opposition to Trump was due to his policies costing him money, and not in line with free trade ideals.  Not that Mistwell is an oligarch, but yeah, I'm sure the Rockefellers don't have the same hot buttons.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Daztur on January 07, 2021, 01:04:49 AM
Well you would think Capital Hill would be fortified especially on the sixth of all days.  It was too easy to take over that building is what I am saying.  Perhaps they relaxed security to bait people is my line of thought.

So you're saying that the Deep State's cunning plan was to stand back and do nothing so that the Qtards would charge in, act like complete idiots, and embarrass themselves? Well I guess you don't need to do much when the opposition is so dumb.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on January 07, 2021, 01:15:31 AM
Well if you have a enemy you hate in a optic war and the ability to transport politicians safely out of the building within minutes so no damage is done it is a smart trap to lax the security.  This is classical rabbit box trap with Capital Hill as a carrot.  It would be a move I would do knowing damn well that many of these people have lost their lively hoods, homes, and are completely desperate. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deathknight4044 on January 07, 2021, 01:22:40 AM
BLM and these deranged "patriots" are the same thing. Anyone defending this is a hypocrite.
Protesting (even with some rioting) and attempted insurrection are hardly the same thing. I hope that each of today's traitors are convicted and get the full 10 years in a Federal prison. As they deserve.

Why don't you defund the police now bitches.


This. What the fuck were they expecting? We saw over 200 days of the racial reckoning of 2020 where buildings were torched, residential homes were surrounded, business patrons were harrassed, and businesses themselves destroyed. The anarchy that reigned was downplayed and in some cases supported by establishment figures. To the right this proved that force works. Mob rule works. In several areas of the country politicans appeased the rioters.

And now I'm supposed to care when the right engages in the same tactics? Why would I when they're proven to be effective?

And why would I rely on s system that functions like this:
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deathknight4044 on January 07, 2021, 01:28:35 AM
NEWS FLASH!
THE YEAR OF LOVE AND DESPAIR IS HERE!
I CAN BEARLY STAND IT!
BWA-HAHAHAHAHAH!
=====================
Psyops only work if people are TOO STUPID not to question a NARRATIVE:
https://twitter.com/RealTina40/status/1346576260428926981

Who caused the damage in the Capitol today?
Who actually stormed the Building today?
Who wants anarchy?
Who wants Chaos?
Who promised this would happen so as to villainize their enemies?
Think back to Nov. 3rd
https://twitter.com/intheMatrixxx/status/1346897778132328451
(https://v1.nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-f43d399/media/bbd2930e3d1aac383aebf52f50803d88.ErEkY5bXMAA-n7R)
They were seen today. How awkward for the DEEP STATE!
https://twitter.com/paulsperry_/status/1346940301307310082
Who will benefit from this?
TRUMP? THE PATRIOTS? THOSE CALLING FOR ELECTION REFORMS?
Modus Operandi in play:
https://twitter.com/BroStreetJoy/status/1346894385359835142
Who deployed the NATIONAL GUARD?
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1346908727111077889
https://twitter.com/PressSec/status/1346918582832168964
Do not give in to lawlessness!
Do not be fooled!
This is far from over!
WWG1WGA!!!

Speaking of being too stupid to question a narrative...

These type of fakes have been perpetrated before.

There are pictures of known alt-righters like Nick Fuentes and Baked Alaska inside the building, along with many other maskless MAGAs. How dumb, or in your case, mentally ill, do you have to be to fall for this shit?

"A convincing police uniform" lol okay


What picture of them in the building?

This one?

https://twitter.com/NickJFuentes/status/1346978532837056515?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on January 07, 2021, 02:01:39 AM
Quote
Speaking of being too stupid to question a narrative...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-TwUM8okMTM
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on January 07, 2021, 05:04:32 AM
14 Senators were going to support the objection to the election.
After today, only 6 stuck with that plan.

That proportion looks about right, nationally, for what I think just happened to his overall support. A bit more than half of his former supporters finally said enough is enough. And those 8 Senators saw the way the winds had just changed.

If they honestly believed there was a problem with the vote, why would this change their minds.

Now, if they were just saying that to try and suck up to the constituents...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Daztur on January 07, 2021, 05:09:08 AM
And Trump folds like a little bitch: https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN29C131

Dude has no balls at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Arkansan on January 07, 2021, 06:56:54 AM
Well I think we've finally seen the end of the majority of Trump's prior support.

My parents are staunch Trump supporters, and have been for 4+ years. And this was the point where they finally, FINALLY were able to condemn him and regret their decision to support him.

And if they reacted that way, I can only imagine that response is happening across the nation tonight. Because they were hardcore supporters. 30 years of listening to right wing talk radio, constantly arguing with those who disagreed (in a logical and reasoned manner). And this was the day they decided enough was enough and they couldn't support him anymore.

I don't think he can successfully get the nomination ever again. I think this was, finally, the breaking point.

Huh, most of the conservatives I know were cheering this on. A lot of conservatives have lost all faith in the system, and rightfully so I believe.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Arthur Frayn on January 07, 2021, 07:53:09 AM
BLM and these deranged "patriots" are the same thing. Anyone defending this is a hypocrite.
Protesting (even with some rioting) and attempted insurrection are hardly the same thing. I hope that each of today's traitors are convicted and get the full 10 years in a Federal prison. As they deserve.

Why don't you defund the police now bitches.


This. What the fuck were they expecting? We saw over 200 days of the racial reckoning of 2020 where buildings were torched, residential homes were surrounded, business patrons were harrassed, and businesses themselves destroyed. The anarchy that reigned was downplayed and in some cases supported by establishment figures. To the right this proved that force works. Mob rule works. In several areas of the country politicans appeased the rioters.

And now I'm supposed to care when the right engages in the same tactics? Why would I when they're proven to be effective?

And why would I rely on s system that functions like this:


Except that these tactics haven't proven effective.  For anyone.  In fact, they have proven just the opposite: 

-Police are still regularly gunning down innocent black guys without any consequences whatsoever. 

-Democracy is still intact and Joe Biden is now President.  The embarrassing acts of sedition yesterday didn't make anyone think "oh golly gee willikers, I guess we should put our heads down and give in to the inbred bullies now!"  Instead, it has only made everyone think "damn, all those negative stereotypes about Trump supporters were completely dead on accurate.  I guess we need to more aggressively hunt them down and stamp them out like Al Qaeda terror cells."

Point being, that rioting just...  Doesn't work.  At all.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 07, 2021, 08:06:48 AM

-Police are still regularly gunning down innocent black guys without any consequences whatsoever. 
I really hope you're speaking in a generalist sense, because if you're referring to Jacob 'Rape my baby momma and steal her kids' Blake, I'm going to be a bit peeved.

Quote
-Democracy is still intact and Joe Biden is now President.  The embarrassing acts of sedition yesterday didn't make anyone think "oh golly gee willikers, I guess we should put our heads down and give in to the inbred bullies now!"  Instead, it has only made everyone think "damn, all those negative stereotypes about Trump supporters were completely dead on accurate.  I guess we need to more aggressively hunt them down and stamp them out like Al Qaeda terror cells."

Point being, that rioting just...  Doesn't work.  At all.
As I stated before, I will give the Polident-Elect precisely all the respect that the Democrats gave Trump over four years.

But then, dissent is no longer patriotic when a Derpocrat is in charge, amirite?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 07, 2021, 08:15:45 AM
14 Senators were going to support the objection to the election.
After today, only 6 stuck with that plan.

That proportion looks about right, nationally, for what I think just happened to his overall support. A bit more than half of his former supporters finally said enough is enough. And those 8 Senators saw the way the winds had just changed.

If they honestly believed there was a problem with the vote, why would this change their minds.

Now, if they were just saying that to try and suck up to the constituents...

With the media and the establishment spin after what happened yesterday, supporting Trump's bid to stay in office became untenable. Even if they weren't just trying to suck up to the constituents, it's simply not gonna happen anymore. The official narrative now is about how Trump personally tried to stage a coup, even if it was just a couple of useful idiots storming into the Capitol on their own and assaulting absolutely no one--just dicking around like clowns and one woman getting killed. This is going to completely overshadow the voter fraud claims now.

Well I think we've finally seen the end of the majority of Trump's prior support.

My parents are staunch Trump supporters, and have been for 4+ years. And this was the point where they finally, FINALLY were able to condemn him and regret their decision to support him.

And if they reacted that way, I can only imagine that response is happening across the nation tonight. Because they were hardcore supporters. 30 years of listening to right wing talk radio, constantly arguing with those who disagreed (in a logical and reasoned manner). And this was the day they decided enough was enough and they couldn't support him anymore.

I don't think he can successfully get the nomination ever again. I think this was, finally, the breaking point.

Huh, most of the conservatives I know were cheering this on. A lot of conservatives have lost all faith in the system, and rightfully so I believe.

The only reason Democrat-aligned liberals haven't lost all faith in the system is because they're media-brainwashed, low information idiots who let themselves get fooled into voting for a senile old man nobody wanted, and his prison slave labor abusing cutthroat careerist politician running mate, so they have the illusion of having "won", despite the Democratic party not doing absolutely anything for them either and completely failing them throughout the pandemic, even as idiot voters did the party's bidding and voted for their appointed puppet.

If they had a working brain, they would've joined the Trump supporters in storming Capitol building and putting an end to this sham of a system.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 07, 2021, 08:23:47 AM
BLM and these deranged "patriots" are the same thing. Anyone defending this is a hypocrite.
Protesting (even with some rioting) and attempted insurrection are hardly the same thing. I hope that each of today's traitors are convicted and get the full 10 years in a Federal prison. As they deserve.

Why don't you defund the police now bitches.


This. What the fuck were they expecting? We saw over 200 days of the racial reckoning of 2020 where buildings were torched, residential homes were surrounded, business patrons were harrassed, and businesses themselves destroyed. The anarchy that reigned was downplayed and in some cases supported by establishment figures. To the right this proved that force works. Mob rule works. In several areas of the country politicans appeased the rioters.

And now I'm supposed to care when the right engages in the same tactics? Why would I when they're proven to be effective?

And why would I rely on s system that functions like this:


Except that these tactics haven't proven effective.  For anyone.  In fact, they have proven just the opposite: 

-Police are still regularly gunning down innocent black guys without any consequences whatsoever. 

-Democracy is still intact and Joe Biden is now President.  The embarrassing acts of sedition yesterday didn't make anyone think "oh golly gee willikers, I guess we should put our heads down and give in to the inbred bullies now!"  Instead, it has only made everyone think "damn, all those negative stereotypes about Trump supporters were completely dead on accurate.  I guess we need to more aggressively hunt them down and stamp them out like Al Qaeda terror cells."

Point being, that rioting just...  Doesn't work.  At all.

How can you possibly believe that democracy is intact if police regularly gun down innocent black guys without consequences (white guys also get gunned down as well, by the way, the media just doesn't report on it cuz they can't create outrage inducing, racebaiting spin out of cops killing white people)? Democracy hasn't been intact in decades. We're all just going through the motions.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on January 07, 2021, 08:46:30 AM

-Police are still regularly gunning down innocent black guys without any consequences whatsoever. 

Not really...according to the numbers it is mostly black people gunning down innocent black guys...

-Democracy is still intact and Joe Biden is now President.  The embarrassing acts of sedition yesterday didn't make anyone think "oh golly gee willikers, I guess we should put our heads down and give in to the inbred bullies now!"  Instead, it has only made everyone think "damn, all those negative stereotypes about Trump supporters were completely dead on accurate.  I guess we need to more aggressively hunt them down and stamp them out like Al Qaeda terror cells."

You might want to carry a handkerchief with you to wipe the spittle and froth off your lips after the TDS kicks in...It looks a little better in public.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 07, 2021, 09:55:18 AM
And Trump folds like a little bitch: https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN29C131

Dude has no balls at all.

I'm going to enjoy all the wankers who wanted to see Trump dragged out of the White House explode in frustration. The sight of him smiling and waving is going to get us some tasty salt.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on January 07, 2021, 10:03:36 AM

-Police are still regularly gunning down innocent black guys without any consequences whatsoever. 

Not really...according to the numbers it is mostly black people gunning down innocent black guys...


When I moved to America and realized just how tense race relations are, I decided to calculate rates of interracial violence (just to see how often whites really do lynch black people) based on FBI data, because no one else would. It’s true that blacks are much more likely to kill blacks, and same with whites, but from the news you’d expect white people to form lunch mobs all the time. relatively speaking the likelihood of blacks killing whites is MUCH higher than the other way round. It’s like ten times difference. Also much higher rates of black violence in general. The police keep clashing with blacks because the rates of crime in black communities is much higher. Now you could blame this on unemployment and such, but many immigrant communities are doing better than both blacks and whites. It’s sadly become ingrained in the much lauded black culture (which to be fair has provided a lot to America culturally speaking, but seriously they have to look at their own culture and fix that “gangsta” culture)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on January 07, 2021, 10:04:43 AM
Double post
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on January 07, 2021, 10:46:19 AM
14 Senators were going to support the objection to the election.
After today, only 6 stuck with that plan.

That proportion looks about right, nationally, for what I think just happened to his overall support. A bit more than half of his former supporters finally said enough is enough. And those 8 Senators saw the way the winds had just changed.

If they honestly believed there was a problem with the vote, why would this change their minds.

Now, if they were just saying that to try and suck up to the constituents...

The House also lost 20 members who had previously committed to voting in favor of the objection.

And yes, representing the views of their constituents is literally the job.

I think Trump just lost a very meaningful portion of his prior supporters. This was the turning point. A whole bunch of people are also resigning from the White House today as well. A line was crossed last night.

I think we are, finally, done with Trump. Sure, some hardcore fans will stick with him, but I think a lot of the more wishy-washy supporters who were "on board because he's good for the economy" or "on board because I hate that political correctness stuff" are finally at the point where supporting Trump is just not worth it to them anymore.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on January 07, 2021, 10:56:11 AM
They will never support the neocons as your days are just as numbered Mistwell.  They may have left Trump, but they are still nationalists.  They will destroy the GOP, or make it something completely different.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on January 07, 2021, 11:11:03 AM
What's funny is how many of the politicians who ran away to hide at that military base or cowered under their desks are trying to play tough guy, as if by coming back with huge amount of armed protection to finish the vote makes them heroes.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 07, 2021, 11:37:55 AM
Greetings!

Salty Cracker discusses the Leftists and the MSM narrative about the rally in DC. Excellent commentary.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 07, 2021, 12:13:08 PM
They will never support the neocons as your days are just as numbered Mistwell.  They may have left Trump, but they are still nationalists.  They will destroy the GOP, or make it something completely different.

I never voted before Trump, and now I plan to go back to not voting. The GOP can suck my left nut while the Dems suck my right one.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 07, 2021, 12:24:09 PM
Greetings!

Salty Cracker discusses the Leftists and the MSM narrative about the rally in DC. Excellent commentary.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK



The entire media narrative surrounding this incident is complete bullshit. We've been seeing giant BLM/ANTIFA riots for months now causing mass destruction of businesses and private property, with innocent people being attacked and sometimes killed, and the media excusing it and cheering it on at every turn. People taking over whole swaths of territory inside US states and declaring it autonomous zones in defiance of state authority, and the media just romanticized it. Yet the ONE time Trump supporters have a large protest and a relatively small group (compared to the hundreds of thousands that showed up in DC) breaks away and decides to storm a government building that's public property on their own initiative (after Trump told them not to start shit earlier that day)--not assaulting anyone, just breaking windows to get in--this is suddenly an INSURRECTION personally led by Trump to stage a coup.

And if you look at the videos, the cops in Capitol building where woefully unprepared. They even moved the barricades at one point to let people in, and there were only a handful of cops guarding the building inside, taking selfies with people and stuff. Hundreds of billions of dollars since 9/11 going into counter terrorism measures in training and equipment for DECADES now, yet a bunch of unarmed and genuinely "largely peaceful" civilians somehow get into the seat of the US government with minimal effort or opposition. It's almost like they let it happen on purpose.

But I'm SURE that this wasn't intentional, and that they didn't let those people in just to make Trump look bad and have an excuse to throw him out, though. It was merely a coincidence that they barely had any cops in that building after weeks of media hype and "fears" that Trump might try something leading up to this event. Nah, this was Trump's military genius getting people to storm that building, through guts and strategy and cheer determination in order to stage a coup. They definitely didn't let those people in so they could spin this narrative and turn months of talk about voter fraud into a discussion about how violent and unruly Trump supporters are.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on January 07, 2021, 12:31:29 PM
From posts here and elsewhere, I'm sure Trump thought he could count on a legion of his supporters to actually wage war on his behalf - like two weeks ago people on this very board were posting how Trump was literally declaring war and talking about how awesome that would be. 

Well, turns out the MAGA-wearing Nationalist Xenophobes are pussies. 

How bad did yesterday go?  Now people are resigning from Trump's white house in droves so they can make the claim that they were really never with him.  I don't think Trump deserves and parallels to Jesus, but looks like some of his true disciples are claiming they don't know him.  I found Lindsey Graham's speech yesterday quite a reversal.

Quote from: Lindsey Graham
he mob has done something nobody else could do, to get me and Rand to agree. Rand is right. If you’re a conservative, this is the most offensive concept in the world that a single person could disenfranchise 155 million people. “The President of the Senate shall in the presence of the Senate and the House of Representatives open all certificates and the vote shall then be counted. The person having the greatest number of votes for president shall be president.” Where in there does it say, “Mike can say, ‘I don’t like the results. I want to send them back to the states. I believe there was fraud.'” To the conservatives who believe in the constitution, now’s your chance to stand up and be counted.

....

There are people dying, to my good friend from Illinois, to make sure we have a chance to argue among ourselves, and when it’s over, it is over. It is over. The final thing, Joe Biden. I’ve traveled the world with Joe. I hoped he lost. I prayed he would lose. He won. He’s the legitimate President of the United States. I cannot convince people, certain groups, by my words, but I will tell you by my actions that maybe I above all others in this body need to say this. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are lawfully elected and will become the President and the Vice President of the United States on January the 20th.

I fully expected that Trump would attempt a coup.  And while I've always believed that he is an incompetent, narcissistic buffoon, I am surprised at how badly his last best chance to overthrow democracy was played.  Apparently, despite my low opinion of him as a man, it still wasn't low enough. 

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on January 07, 2021, 12:39:29 PM
Yet the ONE time Trump supporters have a large protest and a relatively small group (compared to the hundreds of thousands that showed up in DC) breaks away and decides to storm a government building that's public property on their own initiative (after Trump told them not to start shit earlier that day)--not assaulting anyone, just breaking windows to get in--this is suddenly an INSURRECTION personally led by Trump to stage a coup.

What about the protest in Michigan?  What about the attempt to kidnap Governor Whitmer?  What about the Capitol Police who were injured trying to block the crowd from entering? 

Why downplay the events?  Why ignore the people who, even now, are saying that what the rioters got wrong was not hanging all the politicians? 

The attempt to block Congress from certifying the results of the election is a coup - the certification being required prior to the transition of power pending something like a Supreme Court ruling saying otherwise.

So at least pick a position - was the riot a good thing that didn't go far enough, or a bad thing that certainly went to far?  I'm hearing both from too many people.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Gagarth on January 07, 2021, 12:43:47 PM
At some point RPG.net is going to run out  room anything but their Neo-Marxist posturing. 
(https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/?action=dlattach;attach=1927;image)

Also deadDMWalking go fuck yourself. I wouldn't be surprised if you are the Antifa tosser dressed up as the Indian 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 07, 2021, 12:48:11 PM
What about the protest in Michigan?  What about the attempt to kidnap Governor Whitmer?  What about the Capitol Police who were injured trying to block the crowd from entering? 
Dunno about the others, but the Whitmer kidnappers were nutters who hated Trump as much as Whitmer. Try again.

Quote
Why downplay the events?  Why ignore the people who, even now, are saying that what the rioters got wrong was not hanging all the politicians? 
Don't worry, bro, I'm sure the Capitol has insurance. Think of it as a mostly peaceful protest.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on January 07, 2021, 01:13:55 PM
And yes, representing the views of their constituents is literally the job.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

OMG

*gasping for breath*

say that again...this time with a straight face...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on January 07, 2021, 01:20:33 PM
Also deadDMWalking go fuck yourself.

Happily.   

I wouldn't be surprised if you are the Antifa tosser dressed up as the Indian

Too bad they didn't arrest everybody. 

But no, I wasn't in DC and this clearly wasn't a 'false flag operation'.  Or are you still trying to make that claim? 

Here's an Article about it (https://mashable.com/article/antifa-conspiracies-trump-mob-january-6-capitol-debunk/)

Quote
The photo and the caption are accurate, Angeli was indeed at a BLM protest. However, the photo is manipulated to crop out his QAnon sign. Angeli was photographed at a BLM protest...because he was there as a pro-Trump counter-protestor.

Here's the UNCROPPED image for you "Q Sent Me". That's Jake Angeli BTW - he's an actor and MAGA from Phoenix. pic.twitter.com/WOe9AzmCNs

— Kubrick's Lens Cap (@jonrosling) January 6, 2021

Furthermore, Angeli has made a name for himself as a big supporter of QAnon conspiracy, which is a hardcore pro-Trump movement. He has even spoken at pro-Trump events in support of Trump’s re-election.

But I'm sure that the QAnon Shaman will be happy to be 'unpersoned' by his allies for having the wrong political beliefs even though he did everything that those allies encouraged him to do. 

We're full-on in a Darkness at Noon scenario.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on January 07, 2021, 01:27:36 PM
They will never support the neocons as your days are just as numbered Mistwell.  They may have left Trump, but they are still nationalists.  They will destroy the GOP, or make it something completely different.

I think the outcome of the senate races in GA proved this.  There weren't any real number of Republicans, except the neocons, who voted R+Biden.  The Democrat party isn't faring much better though.  They have their majority, but what happens when the establishment doesn't give the Antifa/BLM what the want.  As I said before, I don't think they can get the riot genie back into the bottle.

...and they will have to in order to 'salvage' us from the 'ruination of the Trump Presidency.'  I think its going to get interesting when they have to start using force...  ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deathknight4044 on January 07, 2021, 01:38:46 PM
 :)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on January 07, 2021, 01:40:58 PM
I fully expected that Trump would attempt a coup.  And while I've always believed that he is an incompetent, narcissistic buffoon, I am surprised at how badly his last best chance to overthrow democracy was played.  Apparently, despite my low opinion of him as a man, it still wasn't low enough.

That wasn't a 'coup' attempt...It was a group of overzealous, unarmed protesters pushing their way into a Federal building to make their voices heard.

On the plus side, we now know that if Portland, etc. had used real bullets on day 1 of the riots, it would have been ok according to the MSM.  I'm confused, I thought the stuff earlier was protesting police violence...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on January 07, 2021, 01:47:35 PM
Whatever the BLM twats have been doing doesn’t excuse what happened yesterday.  We’ve had lots of riots in our history but we’ve never seen the seat of government stormed during a constitutional hearing.  Whether you believe it was justified and considering it wasn’t a fully armed insurrection, it’s still shocking and couldn’t have helped the cause.  Either way the president initiated it and that will go down in history. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on January 07, 2021, 02:10:21 PM
Whatever the BLM twats have been doing doesn’t excuse what happened yesterday.  We’ve had lots of riots in our history but we’ve never seen the seat of government stormed during a constitutional hearing.  Whether you believe it was justified and considering it wasn’t a fully armed insurrection, it’s still shocking and couldn’t have helped the cause.  Either way the president initiated it and that will go down in history.

1) I never said it was justified.
2) 'wasn't a fully armed insurrection' you are so cute...I said unarmed, not partially armed.
3) So you believe Trump should have used the Insurrection Act against the rioters in Ferguson, Minneapolis, etc. ??

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 07, 2021, 02:14:46 PM
Despite what your political masters have told you, myleftnut, you really can't have it both ways.

John Hayward says it best (copied from his Twatter account):

Quote
Political violence is always wrong and should never be tolerated from anyone. Once "protesters" threaten lives and property, their grievances and ideology should become absolutely irrelevant to the situation.
That is, obviously, not the country we live in.

Long ago, we had an attitude of zero tolerance for terrorism, "we do not negotiate with terrorists," etc. One reason for this was the implicit understanding that negotiating with terrorism legitimizes it. Violence becomes an instrument of politics.

Some of us warned all last year that treating violence as acceptable, even laudable, from SOME people would mainstream it and touch off an arms race. Everyone would start getting the idea that only groups with a demonstrated capacity for violence are taken seriously.

When violence becomes acceptable from one party and its clients, one ideology, it becomes an instrument of authoritarianism. That's why authoritarian regimes frequently have violent vigilante groups roaming the streets in addition to their vast security and military forces.

Iran, for example, has all sorts of heavily armed police and security forces, working for both its secular and theocratic governments, but it ALSO has ultra-violent "vigilante" groups indulged by the State whose "grievances" supposedly justify vandalism and murder.

Either political violence is rejected in total - from everyone, for any reason, no matter who they are or what they believe - or it isn't. Once the tolerance level is no longer zero, we become locked in a vicious and endless struggle to control exactly what the level should be.

This is similar to the detestable way modern society handles racism. The tolerance level should be zero, but it isn't. Racism, prejudice, and discrimination are acceptable from SOME people toward SOME people. "Anti-racism" is an instrument of totalitarian power, not a principle.

Of course the particulars of protecting vital government facilities are different, but in principle the law-abiding residents and shop owners of Kenosha should have the same expectation of protection from political violence as politicians in D.C. But they don't, do they?

Every time a left-wing group gets violent, we're immediately told the protest was Mostly Peaceful, and the people who assembled peaceably - and their political leaders, no matter how incendiary their rhetoric - are 0% responsible for any injury or destruction that occurred.

We're told it's really all OUR fault for not listening to the grievances of the "protesters" who turned violent, even as we watch video of them merrily looting retail stores. We forced them to steal those TV sets by not yielding to their political demands!

Irresponsible political leaders who fanned the flames of left-wing violence and help the perpetrators escape accountability for their actions are never held to account, never told they must resign, rarely even advised to tone down their rhetoric.

And many - most - of the left-wing riots and killings of recent memory were based on falsehoods and misinformation. Outright lies were blasted by left-wing politicians and media without consequence, entirely BECAUSE they wanted to whip people into a frenzy.

And we were told all of that was fine, acceptable, even praiseworthy because their violence brought CHANGE and their lies illuminated DEEPER TRUTH. Okay, sure, we got everything about Mike Brown or Trayvon Martin's deaths wrong, but there were legit grievances to be addressed!

We have to stop doing that. We have to insist that every quarter of our political spectrum renounce violence, and the willful incitement to violence, completely and absolutely. No more cutesy-poo nudge-nudge wink-wink when lefties burn and pillage. No more double standards.

No more celebration of Noble Lies that illuminate Deeper Truth by the light of burning homes and businesses that were destroyed by mobs with Legitimate Grievances. No more indulgences for those who wantonly break the laws of the System That Failed Them.

That is a principle, and we should all be able to agree on it, no matter what else we disagree on. Absolute zero tolerance for political violence is a message that can save lives and prevent destruction if we all say it together and demand our government acts accordingly.

But if we decide the tolerance level for political violence will not be 0.0, then all that remains is for our armies to meet in the streets. Violence is too powerful, too USEFUL, and too profitable to be ignored when it is indulged.

And I reiterate that famous exchange from A Man For All Seasons:

Quote
William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”

Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”

William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”

Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!"

And there the left stands, the laws cut down all around them, wondering what the problem is.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Tubesock Army on January 07, 2021, 02:24:58 PM
At some point RPG.net is going to run out  room anything but their Neo-Marxist posturing. 
(https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/2020-election-commentary/?action=dlattach;attach=1927;image)

Also deadDMWalking go fuck yourself. I wouldn't be surprised if you are the Antifa tosser dressed up as the Indian

That "Antifa tosser" is a well-known MAGA figure you imbecile
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on January 07, 2021, 02:49:17 PM
They will never support the neocons as your days are just as numbered Mistwell.  They may have left Trump, but they are still nationalists.  They will destroy the GOP, or make it something completely different.

We shall see. Mitt Romney is coming out of this looking pretty good. Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush too. I don't think the flavor of nationalism is as tasty to many anymore.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on January 07, 2021, 02:53:26 PM
:)

Yup, about 45% of Trump supporters still support what happened. That sounds about right to me. Like I said, I think he just lost a majority of his prior support. Roughly the same numbers. We can dicker over about how much support he lost, but I don't think it can be realistically argued he didn't just lose a meaningful number of supporters whatever number you personally land on.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 07, 2021, 02:55:01 PM
Whatever the BLM twats have been doing doesn’t excuse what happened yesterday.  We’ve had lots of riots in our history but we’ve never seen the seat of government stormed during a constitutional hearing.  Whether you believe it was justified and considering it wasn’t a fully armed insurrection, it’s still shocking and couldn’t have helped the cause.  Either way the president initiated it and that will go down in history.

Yes it does. Because history happens within a context. It doesn't take place in a vacuum, unperturbed by the circumstances surrounding it. And the context under which our current history has unfolded is one where political violence and rampant riots coming from one political side have been rationalized and even lionized by the media and prominent political figures for YEARS, while the other side has been continuously silenced and held to a different standard.

It's not a matter of whether it's justified or not, but that it has become inevitable and WILL continue to escalate, cuz the media and the establishment, as well as useful idiots in social media, are already throwing fuel into the fire. So things WON'T end here. This is only the beginning and it won't end well for anyone. This is the future YOU* created.

*and if not "you" literally, then "you" figuratively, as in the so-called "Left", the media and the establishment fomenting this.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Fergurg on January 07, 2021, 03:01:03 PM
Whether we like it or not, the past 8 months have taught us one lesson: violence works.

Police departments are being defunded, people in power are bending over backwards to put into place "anti-racism" policies. The Southern Poverty Law Center recently removed "black supremacist" groups from monitoring, declaring that their ideology is a reasonable response to America. And how many people changed their votes in hopes of appeasing BLM?

In other words, the riots of the leftists got the results that they wanted. Did they really expect that nobody else would realize that?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 07, 2021, 03:05:28 PM
The Leftist tears are delicious.

Attempted coup?  Slow clap.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deadDMwalking on January 07, 2021, 03:40:17 PM
Despite what your political masters have told you, myleftnut, you really can't have it both ways.

Actually, he's pointing out the double-standard that has been unfairly applied to BLM protesters.

Figures Show Stark Difference Between Arrests At D.C. Black Lives Matter Protest And Arrests At Capitol Hill (https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/01/07/figures-show-stark-difference-between-arrests-at-dc-black-lives-matter-protest-and-arrests-at-capitol-hill/?sh=3ed0f225706d)

Quote
On June 1 alone, more than five times the number of people were arrested than on the day the Capitol was stormed, with 289 people booked.

One Night in D.C.: The Oral History of June 1, 2020 (https://www.theringer.com/2020/7/13/21322010/washington-dc-protests-june-1-trump-lafayette-square)

Quote
A day of peaceful protesting against the police killing of George Floyd turned violent in the nation’s capital, as President Trump forced people away from the area surrounding the White House. Here’s how a photo op became a flashpoint in the movement against racism.

Of course, it's a false equivalence to claim that people who broke through police barricades, illegally entered a building, caused property damage, broke windows and carried weapons are the same as people who were occupying a public space.

Quote
Reporting live, MSNBC correspondent Garrett Haake knew he couldn’t soft-pedal what he was seeing. “As calmly as I could, I very specifically said what just happened,” Haake tells The Ringer. “I didn’t want it to be, ‘The president just spoke’ or ‘clash with protesters.’ There was no clash. People were forcibly, aggressively removed from that park with flash bangs and gas.”

The brazen display of force, captured on video in broad daylight during a demonstration calling attention to yet more instances of the extrajudicial killing of Black Americans—including Breonna Taylor, shot eight times in her home by still-uncharged Louisville police officers; and Ahmaud Arbery, stalked and shot in Southeast Georgia while jogging by three men now charged with murder—symbolized exactly what the current movement is protesting. The scourge of racist policing predates Trump by centuries, but rather than acknowledge it with consequential legislation, he and his allies seem set on crushing the nationwide uprising against it. That was nakedly apparent on the first day of June.


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on January 07, 2021, 03:58:29 PM
Whatever the BLM twats have been doing doesn’t excuse what happened yesterday.  We’ve had lots of riots in our history but we’ve never seen the seat of government stormed during a constitutional hearing.  Whether you believe it was justified and considering it wasn’t a fully armed insurrection, it’s still shocking and couldn’t have helped the cause.  Either way the president initiated it and that will go down in history.

Yes it does. Because history happens within a context. It doesn't take place in a vacuum, unperturbed by the circumstances surrounding it. And the context under which our current history has unfolded is one where political violence and rampant riots coming from one political side have been rationalized and even lionized by the media and prominent political figures for YEARS, while the other side has been continuously silenced and held to a different standard.

It's not a matter of whether it's justified or not, but that it has become inevitable and WILL continue to escalate, cuz the media and the establishment, as well as useful idiots in social media, are already throwing fuel into the fire. So things WON'T end here. This is only the beginning and it won't end well for anyone. This is the future YOU* created.

*and if not "you" literally, then "you" figuratively, as in the so-called "Left", the media and the establishment fomenting this.

Sure why not?   The only thing that really irks me is these actions were take for the aggrandizement of one man.  People’s lives are about to be wrecked because of this.  People Trump wouldn’t piss on if they were on fire.  One thing is clear to me.  The deep state wants Trump’s ass and they will get it.  The real deep state.  The one that doesn’t care what party is in power. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 07, 2021, 04:02:59 PM
Sure why not?   The only thing that really irks me is these actions were take for the aggrandizement of one man.  People’s lives are about to be wrecked because of this.  People Trump wouldn’t piss on if they were on fire.  One thing is clear to me.  The deep state wants Trump’s ass and they will get it.  The real deep state.  The one that doesn’t care what party is in power.

For Gods sake, if I am on fire do not try and piss on me.

Just let me die in dignity and not covered in piss.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 07, 2021, 04:03:24 PM
Greetings!

Well, more and more people are fed up with being patient, and tolerant, and trying to use reason to interact with tyrannical, smug, condescending Liberals. Then you have the constant demonization of Conservatives; then you have fraud and corruption in elections; then you have government officials and the judiciary that stonewall, drag their feet, or otherwise avoid taking people's voices seriously and diligently pursuing investigations.

When people feel like they are banned, censored, silenced, vilified and ignored, efforts to address fraud in elections and voting are dismissed, and judges and other officials do nothing, what alternative is there?

Much more excitement to come, I'm sure.

Millions of Americans are not going to shut the fuck up, get on their knees, and submit to Marxist tyranny.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 07, 2021, 04:13:12 PM
Despite what your political masters have told you, myleftnut, you really can't have it both ways.

Actually, he's pointing out the double-standard that has been unfairly applied to BLM protesters.

It is true that BLM riots destroyed more black owned private property and damaged their neighborhoods than the DC riot.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 07, 2021, 05:24:08 PM

Actually, he's pointing out the double-standard that has been unfairly applied to BLM protesters.

Which double standard is that? Are you suggesting that the people in Portland, Seattle, or Kenosha have less right to protection than our political elite?

Goodness. If the hammer had come down in those places, then sure, you could've made that argument. Too bad it didn't.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on January 07, 2021, 05:51:06 PM
Which double standard is that? Are you suggesting that the people in Portland, Seattle, or Kenosha have less right to protection than our political elite?

Goodness. If the hammer had come down in those places, then sure, you could've made that argument. Too bad it didn't.

So do you think that those breaking into the Capitol building should have been dealt with just as harshly as you advocated for those who rioted and vandalized in Portland, Seattle, and Kenosha? I believe that those who vandalize and engage in violence should be arrested and charged, regardless of their cause. Would you agree?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on January 07, 2021, 05:51:57 PM
The lady who was killed was named Ashli Babbitt.  The video of her death can be found on YouTube.  She was shot while trying to climb through the glass of a door where Congress members were hiding.  She was a 35 year old veteran.  She gave her life for Donald fucking Trump. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on January 07, 2021, 06:21:18 PM
The gift that keeps on giving.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFmfNnVkAEwZT6?format=jpg&name=medium)
Well, more and more people are fed up with being patient, and tolerant, and trying to use reason to interact with tyrannical, smug, condescending Liberals. Then you have the constant demonization of Conservatives; then you have fraud and corruption in elections; then you have government officials and the judiciary that stonewall, drag their feet, or otherwise avoid taking people's voices seriously and diligently pursuing investigations.

When people feel like they are banned, censored, silenced, vilified and ignored, efforts to address fraud in elections and voting are dismissed, and judges and other officials do nothing, what alternative is there?

So, here's the issue. Which side are people on? Ratman_tf is calling out hypocrisy - but is the answer to this more hypocrisy? Is violent rioting and vandalism justified, as long as it is the *right* people who are rioting?

I would say that no. People should be arrested and charged for violence, and it should be condemned regardless of who it comes from.

I would support peaceful organizing and protest, investigation and journalism, and pushing for local change. That goes for both liberals and conservatives.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 07, 2021, 06:23:14 PM
So do you think that those breaking into the Capitol building should have been dealt with just as harshly as you advocated for those who rioted and vandalized in Portland, Seattle, and Kenosha? I believe that those who vandalize and engage in violence should be arrested and charged, regardless of their cause. Would you agree?

Do we have enough wet bus tickets to slap the Washington Patriots with?  If we are going to deal with them just as harshly as the Portland rioters I mean.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on January 07, 2021, 06:25:12 PM
So do you think that those breaking into the Capitol building should have been dealt with just as harshly as you advocated for those who rioted and vandalized in Portland, Seattle, and Kenosha? I believe that those who vandalize and engage in violence should be arrested and charged, regardless of their cause. Would you agree?

Do we have enough wet bus tickets to slap the Washington Patriots with?  If we are going to deal with them just as harshly as the Portland rioters I mean.

That's just dodging the question. You're calling out the other side as hypocritical -- but are you going to stand against hypocrisy?

What *should* have been done with both the Portland rioters and the Washington rioters?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Daztur on January 07, 2021, 06:35:06 PM
So do you think that those breaking into the Capitol building should have been dealt with just as harshly as you advocated for those who rioted and vandalized in Portland, Seattle, and Kenosha? I believe that those who vandalize and engage in violence should be arrested and charged, regardless of their cause. Would you agree?

Do we have enough wet bus tickets to slap the Washington Patriots with?  If we are going to deal with them just as harshly as the Portland rioters I mean.

That's just dodging the question. You're calling out the other side as hypocritical -- but are you going to stand against hypocrisy?

What *should* have been done with both the Portland rioters and the Washington rioters?

They're not making a reasoned argument about political violence, they're just making excuses. It's the logic of a five year old "wah, wah, why are you blaming me, he did it first!" Because obviously you get a freebie to do anything bad as long as someone whose politics you don't like also did something vaguely similar. No sense of personal responsibility whatsoever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Koltar on January 07, 2021, 06:43:09 PM
In the early part of this thread - way back in November I predicted yesterday's violence - I just thought it would happen on Janury 20th....

-Ed C.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 07, 2021, 07:01:47 PM
I'll say that the rioters should have been dealt with physical force to enforce the law, every BLM riot and the riot in Washington DC yesterday.

But that ship sailed. Violence is how America resolves political issues now.

2021 is gonna make 2020 look like a game of patty cake.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on January 07, 2021, 07:06:28 PM
So do you think that those breaking into the Capitol building should have been dealt with just as harshly as you advocated for those who rioted and vandalized in Portland, Seattle, and Kenosha? I believe that those who vandalize and engage in violence should be arrested and charged, regardless of their cause. Would you agree?

Do we have enough wet bus tickets to slap the Washington Patriots with?  If we are going to deal with them just as harshly as the Portland rioters I mean.

That's just dodging the question. You're calling out the other side as hypocritical -- but are you going to stand against hypocrisy?

What *should* have been done with both the Portland rioters and the Washington rioters?

It’s not really relevant anymore because one of those has already occurred.  Therefore both should be treated the same.

If they want to issue new guidance starting tomorrow that is equally applied to both; I.e. both sides end up in prison, neither side gets sympathetic DAs, etc, then that’s fine

But no, people shouldn’t uphold rhetoric that isn’t universally applied-in-fact.  It’s aspirational, only, until such time.

If you use unrestricted submarine warfare and urban terror bombing in violation of the treaty rules of war, so will we.  The principle of matching your enemies actions instead of past words is established and accepted.

Nice way to alinsky conservatives though, always holding them to past rhetoric.  I think that’s your primary role here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 07, 2021, 07:10:23 PM
So do you think that those breaking into the Capitol building should have been dealt with just as harshly as you advocated for those who rioted and vandalized in Portland, Seattle, and Kenosha? I believe that those who vandalize and engage in violence should be arrested and charged, regardless of their cause. Would you agree?

Do we have enough wet bus tickets to slap the Washington Patriots with?  If we are going to deal with them just as harshly as the Portland rioters I mean.

That's just dodging the question. You're calling out the other side as hypocritical -- but are you going to stand against hypocrisy?

What *should* have been done with both the Portland rioters and the Washington rioters?

They're not making a reasoned argument about political violence, they're just making excuses. It's the logic of a five year old "wah, wah, why are you blaming me, he did it first!" Because obviously you get a freebie to do anything bad as long as someone whose politics you don't like also did something vaguely similar. No sense of personal responsibility whatsoever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

I agree. If someone punches you around and knocks your teeth out that doesn't justify you punching them back. And just because they faced no consequences for what they did that doesn't mean you shouldn't either if you fight back. Violence is NEVER justified. You should just take your toothless grin and walk out. That's the grownup thing to do.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 07, 2021, 07:19:42 PM
Mmm... Delicious, delicious...
Since my work is now only partially done, I have decided Junko and I need a break to work on our project! Please, all of you, be aware of your surroundings at all times!
And enjoy your beautiful DESPAIR while it lasts!
From myself, and those around me:
Thank you for the enterainment!
And remember:
We love you all!
(https://pa1.narvii.com/6505/1b2b713bff4d3c23a07df96905e97f41c3068bbf_hq.gif)
P.S.: We shall return to save you all from your wretched hope, you bunch of neo-zionist tranny scumbags! so hang on to that despair!!!1!

tl;dr: Real life crept up ~ losing service for a while ~ got work anyway ~ be back l8r!
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Larsdangly on January 07, 2021, 07:20:52 PM
This discussion is sufficiently stupid that I hesitate to focus on just one thing, but a key factor that makes yesterday's insurrection unique was its purpose, which was to halt a critical function of congress and overturn an election in order to support an unconstitutional power grab. It was not simply a protest that got out of hand.  The correct point of comparison would be something like a BLM protest that then overran the whitehouse, drove the administration into a bunker, while goaded on by some political figure, say, Nancy Pelosi, to advance the case that she should be installed as president. Of course nothing  remotely resembling that has ever occurred.

p.s., all of you who are happy about or rationalizing what happened are traitorous fascists who deserve to have your every wish and dream crushed.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on January 07, 2021, 07:25:05 PM
It actually is just a protest that got out of hand.  If it were all of the other things mentioned, there would have been coordination after the march to the capital building between the protesters and elements of the military and/or intel agencies.

Just like in other coups (military) and color revolutions (intel agencies)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 07, 2021, 07:30:53 PM
So do you think that those breaking into the Capitol building should have been dealt with just as harshly as you advocated for those who rioted and vandalized in Portland, Seattle, and Kenosha? I believe that those who vandalize and engage in violence should be arrested and charged, regardless of their cause. Would you agree?

Do we have enough wet bus tickets to slap the Washington Patriots with?  If we are going to deal with them just as harshly as the Portland rioters I mean.

That's just dodging the question. You're calling out the other side as hypocritical -- but are you going to stand against hypocrisy?

What *should* have been done with both the Portland rioters and the Washington rioters?

If you are going to be fair then you should treat them the same.

So no point in discussing what *should* have been done.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 07, 2021, 07:34:00 PM
p.s., all of you who are happy about or rationalizing what happened are traitorous fascists who deserve to have your every wish and dream crushed.

Come on now.  Just tell us what you really think.

You are amongst friends here.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on January 07, 2021, 07:44:45 PM
So do you think that those breaking into the Capitol building should have been dealt with just as harshly as you advocated for those who rioted and vandalized in Portland, Seattle, and Kenosha? I believe that those who vandalize and engage in violence should be arrested and charged, regardless of their cause. Would you agree?

Do we have enough wet bus tickets to slap the Washington Patriots with?  If we are going to deal with them just as harshly as the Portland rioters I mean.



That's just dodging the question. You're calling out the other side as hypocritical -- but are you going to stand against hypocrisy?

What *should* have been done with both the Portland rioters and the Washington rioters?

Obviously they should be treated the same by the law...and that precedent was set earlier this year wasn't it?

But then my belief system is based on application the Golden Rule, so I kind of think everyone should be treated as equal by the government...we'll see how that turns out...
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 07, 2021, 07:47:07 PM
This discussion is sufficiently stupid that I hesitate to focus on just one thing, but a key factor that makes yesterday's insurrection unique was its purpose, which was to halt a critical function of congress and overturn an election in order to support an unconstitutional power grab. It was not simply a protest that got out of hand.  The correct point of comparison would be something like a BLM protest that then overran the whitehouse, drove the administration into a bunker, while goaded on by some political figure, say, Nancy Pelosi, to advance the case that she should be installed as president. Of course nothing  remotely resembling that has ever occurred.

p.s., all of you who are happy about or rationalizing what happened are traitorous fascists who deserve to have your every wish and dream crushed.

Nice framing, but its fundamental issue (and this is something that has become commonplace over the past few years and fomented by the media) is that you're assigning a specific set of goals and motivations for a group of people that you haven't even met or contacted, much less consulted, then presenting it as objective fact while inserting additional events that didn't took place, but you insist they did, and also removing additional context that may affect the framing (such as people being assaulted or even murdered by BLM/ANTIFA protesters or thugs, while non of these Trump supporting protesters actually assaulted anyone). You don't know for a fact WTF was going on through those people's minds as they stormed into Capitol, and Trump wasn't standing behind them goading them into anything. But the media keeps insisting that they know the specific plans of these "Insurrectionist" protesters had in mind and that Trump was goading them, despite Trump never telling anyone to storm Capitol (and in fact telling them not to do anything stupid) and none of these protesters being contacted to discern their motives. And so do you. And you seem incapable of differentiating from your personal opinion and objective reality, or recognizing your own bias in this.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 07, 2021, 08:04:26 PM
Instead of making shit up, maybe you chuckleheads should give a listen to someone who was actually there.



I just started listening to it myself, so I don't know what she has to say, but it's got more relevance than anybody here does.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on January 07, 2021, 08:13:31 PM
Instead of making shit up, maybe you chuckleheads should give a listen to someone who was actually there.



I just started listening to it myself, so I don't know what she has to say, but it's got more relevance than anybody here does.

Was she one of the people who entered the building?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 07, 2021, 08:13:58 PM
Interesting thought experiment from Macris

https://macris.substack.com/p/trump-at-the-rubicon

There are a couple of problems with Maxris's thought experiment.

1) Biden is not going to come after Trump when he is not President; there is no way that the Swamp is going to unleash that Kraken that will devour him as soon as he is not President.

and b) Trump is not going to cross the rubicon with his army, Trump is just neither a Caesar nor a Hitler.

Looks like I am 50% correct with my predictions so far.

Still need to wait for China Joe.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 07, 2021, 08:15:25 PM
Instead of making shit up, maybe you chuckleheads should give a listen to someone who was actually there.

As if my narrative requires boots on the ground evidence.

Thats so 1999
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 07, 2021, 08:54:19 PM
Russell Brand provides some good insights into the feelings of discontent that's leading people into the situation going on right now. Granted, he comes to it from a more "Left" perspective that's critical of Trump, but he's also critical of Biden, and highlights some of the systemic issues that have being going on for decades in American politics, going back to Clinton, how neither party serves the people and has abandoned the public, and everyone has become disenfranchised, regardless of race.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 07, 2021, 09:11:45 PM
Well if you have a enemy you hate in a optic war and the ability to transport politicians safely out of the building within minutes so no damage is done it is a smart trap to lax the security.  This is classical rabbit box trap with Capital Hill as a carrot.  It would be a move I would do knowing damn well that many of these people have lost their lively hoods, homes, and are completely desperate.

I think that would be more believable if things like computers and papers were more secured, if there weren't significant symbolic meaning to the Capitol Building, and if the actual members of Congress hadn't still been in a building that could have been burned down.

But, OK, ignoring all that, maybe the whole thing was a deep state honeypot to lure the traitors out into the open. And clever move, to make not wearing a mask a sign of tribal identity so they can be more easily identified.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: rawma on January 07, 2021, 09:14:48 PM
you’d expect white people to form lunch mobs all the time

Well, only during the lunch hour, but then there was a pandemic and they're all working from home.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on January 07, 2021, 09:17:34 PM
But no, people shouldn’t uphold rhetoric that isn’t universally applied-in-fact.  It’s aspirational, only, until such time.

If you use unrestricted submarine warfare and urban terror bombing in violation of the treaty rules of war, so will we.  The principle of matching your enemies actions instead of past words is established and accepted.

Aspiration is exactly what I was talking about. If an enemy like the Imperial Japanese tortures prisoners, that sucks, and we shouldn't feel bound to keep to agreements with them. But that doesn't mean that we should then celebrate torture and televise torture as cool. It's still completely wrong and we should continue to condemn it.

If someone punches me, I can and will punch back to defend myself. But that doesn't mean that I then feel free to punch whoever I want in the future - or that I now think that punching is the right way to argue.

If it counts for anything, Donald Trump has now conceded the election and condemned the attack.

Quote from: Donald Trump
I’d like to begin by addressing the heinous attack on the United States Capitol. Like all Americans I am outraged by the violence, lawlessness and mayhem.

I immediately deployed the National Guard and federal law enforcement to secure the building and expel the intruders. America is and must always be a nation of law and order.

America is and must always be a nation of law and order. The demonstrators who infiltrated the Capitol have defiled the seat of American democracy. To those who engaged in the acts of violence and destruction, you do not represent our country. And to those who broke the law, you will pay.

We have just been through an intense election and emotions are high. But now, tempers must be cooled and calm restored. We must get on with the business of America.

My campaign vigorously pursued every legal avenue to contest the election results, my only goal was to ensure the integrity of the vote. In so doing, I was fighting to defend American democracy.

I continue to strongly believe that we must reform our election laws to verify the identity and eligibility of all voters and to ensure faith and confidence in all future elections.

Now, Congress has certified the results. A new administration will be inaugurated on January 20. My focus now turns to ensuring a smooth, orderly and seamless transition of power. This moment calls for healing and reconciliation.

2020 has been a challenging time for our people, a menacing pandemic has upended the lives of our citizens, isolated millions in their homes damaged our economy, and claimed countless lives.

Defeating this pandemic and rebuilding the greatest economy on earth will require all of us working together. It will require a renewed emphasis on the civic values of patriotism, faith, charity, community and family.

We must revitalise the sacred bonds of love and loyalty, that bind us together as one national family. To the citizens of our country, serving as your president has been the honour of my lifetime.

And to all of my wonderful supporters. I know you are disappointed, but I also want you to know that our incredible journey is only just beginning.

Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America.


Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 07, 2021, 09:34:45 PM
Robert Barnes, as always, shutting down QAnon and dropping the truth bombs:

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Mistwell on January 07, 2021, 09:46:26 PM
tl;dr: Real life crept up ~ losing service for a while ~ got work anyway ~ be back l8r!

OOooooh! It IS a show! All this time I thought you were a nutcase. Someone earlier said you were playing the role of a character and I didn't buy it, but sure enough, they were right.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: EOTB on January 07, 2021, 09:48:24 PM
But no, people shouldn’t uphold rhetoric that isn’t universally applied-in-fact.  It’s aspirational, only, until such time.

If you use unrestricted submarine warfare and urban terror bombing in violation of the treaty rules of war, so will we.  The principle of matching your enemies actions instead of past words is established and accepted.

Aspiration is exactly what I was talking about. If an enemy like the Imperial Japanese tortures prisoners, that sucks, and we shouldn't feel bound to keep to agreements with them. But that doesn't mean that we should then celebrate torture and televise torture as cool. It's still completely wrong and we should continue to condemn it.

If someone punches me, I can and will punch back to defend myself. But that doesn't mean that I then feel free to punch whoever I want in the future - or that I now think that punching is the right way to argue.

If it counts for anything, Donald Trump has now conceded the election and condemned the attack.

Quote from: Donald Trump
I’d like to begin by addressing the heinous attack on the United States Capitol. Like all Americans I am outraged by the violence, lawlessness and mayhem.

I immediately deployed the National Guard and federal law enforcement to secure the building and expel the intruders. America is and must always be a nation of law and order.

America is and must always be a nation of law and order. The demonstrators who infiltrated the Capitol have defiled the seat of American democracy. To those who engaged in the acts of violence and destruction, you do not represent our country. And to those who broke the law, you will pay.

We have just been through an intense election and emotions are high. But now, tempers must be cooled and calm restored. We must get on with the business of America.

My campaign vigorously pursued every legal avenue to contest the election results, my only goal was to ensure the integrity of the vote. In so doing, I was fighting to defend American democracy.

I continue to strongly believe that we must reform our election laws to verify the identity and eligibility of all voters and to ensure faith and confidence in all future elections.

Now, Congress has certified the results. A new administration will be inaugurated on January 20. My focus now turns to ensuring a smooth, orderly and seamless transition of power. This moment calls for healing and reconciliation.

2020 has been a challenging time for our people, a menacing pandemic has upended the lives of our citizens, isolated millions in their homes damaged our economy, and claimed countless lives.

Defeating this pandemic and rebuilding the greatest economy on earth will require all of us working together. It will require a renewed emphasis on the civic values of patriotism, faith, charity, community and family.

We must revitalise the sacred bonds of love and loyalty, that bind us together as one national family. To the citizens of our country, serving as your president has been the honour of my lifetime.

And to all of my wonderful supporters. I know you are disappointed, but I also want you to know that our incredible journey is only just beginning.

Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America.



I've said since the election ended I didn't think Trump was the type of guy who would do a coup, and that any hope in that area was thin.

Yes, obviously in addition to torture we shouldn't resort to ritual cannibalism either.  That rejoinder is incredibly shameless in regards to the subject of Portland vs DC. 

It's also very clear from what I said that "but that doesn't mean that I then feel free to punch whoever I want in the future - or that I now think that punching is the right way to argue." is yet another misleading paraphrase which is your favorite debate tactic.  Again, your enemies actions currently undertaken do color your own.  Excepting torture and ritual cannibalism, of course.  This must be noted. 

You have a serious, conditional, sometimes, context problem. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 07, 2021, 09:54:47 PM
You have to eat your enemies to absorb their power.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 07, 2021, 10:03:15 PM
Instead of making shit up, maybe you chuckleheads should give a listen to someone who was actually there.



I just started listening to it myself, so I don't know what she has to say, but it's got more relevance than anybody here does.

Was she one of the people who entered the building?

Apparently she stayed outside. Covers most of it in the first 20 minutes or so. The rest apparently is mostly her giving her opinion on the whole situation and answering chats (haven't heard to all of it yet).
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on January 07, 2021, 10:09:21 PM
Quote from: Donald Trump
I’d like to begin by addressing the heinous attack on the United States Capitol. Like all Americans I am outraged by the violence, lawlessness and mayhem.

I immediately deployed the National Guard and federal law enforcement to secure the building and expel the intruders. America is and must always be a nation of law and order.

America is and must always be a nation of law and order. The demonstrators who infiltrated the Capitol have defiled the seat of American democracy. To those who engaged in the acts of violence and destruction, you do not represent our country. And to those who broke the law, you will pay.

We have just been through an intense election and emotions are high. But now, tempers must be cooled and calm restored. We must get on with the business of America.

My campaign vigorously pursued every legal avenue to contest the election results, my only goal was to ensure the integrity of the vote. In so doing, I was fighting to defend American democracy.

I continue to strongly believe that we must reform our election laws to verify the identity and eligibility of all voters and to ensure faith and confidence in all future elections.

Now, Congress has certified the results. A new administration will be inaugurated on January 20. My focus now turns to ensuring a smooth, orderly and seamless transition of power. This moment calls for healing and reconciliation.

2020 has been a challenging time for our people, a menacing pandemic has upended the lives of our citizens, isolated millions in their homes damaged our economy, and claimed countless lives.

Defeating this pandemic and rebuilding the greatest economy on earth will require all of us working together. It will require a renewed emphasis on the civic values of patriotism, faith, charity, community and family.

We must revitalise the sacred bonds of love and loyalty, that bind us together as one national family. To the citizens of our country, serving as your president has been the honour of my lifetime.

And to all of my wonderful supporters. I know you are disappointed, but I also want you to know that our incredible journey is only just beginning.

Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America.
That's perfectly reasonable. Presidential even.

Except for all the British spellings. That's just un-American.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: HappyDaze on January 07, 2021, 10:56:58 PM
tl;dr: Real life crept up ~ losing service for a while ~ got work anyway ~ be back l8r!

OOooooh! It IS a show! All this time I thought you were a nutcase. Someone earlier said you were playing the role of a character and I didn't buy it, but sure enough, they were right.
Yeah, I called that one, and it was an easy one, but there are a lot of people here that are just playing characters, and a lot of fake nonsense here. Even some of the people that are total raging asshats in their posts can have civil conversations over on the gaming side of the forum or in PMs. But here? Everyone is just here for Thunderdome.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Trond on January 07, 2021, 11:05:33 PM
you’d expect white people to form lunch mobs all the time

Well, only during the lunch hour, but then there was a pandemic and they're all working from home.

Lunch mobs are the best kind of mobs and those white hoods are perfect as masks.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Abraxus on January 07, 2021, 11:27:37 PM
I may have made mistake today yet glad I did I took two screen clippings that show the hypocrisy of many of the left and how when their side riots it's ok when the other does it it is "domestic terrorism" etc. from this thread. Posted something on my Facebook and lets just say Leftists especially in 2020 do't like having their bullshit thrown back in their faces or their hypocrisy called out.

Let's just say many of more Leftist friends have shown themselves to be both armchair terrorists who support rioting. Burn, Loot and Murder and Thugtifa yet when those on the Right do it" Suddenly it's wrong and immoran and those engaging in it are "terrorists" . When I called them out on how they can accept the first and not be against violence in general. I either:

Did not get the context

It's all well and good for BLM and ThugTifa to do it because of reasons and feels everyone else especially an ideological opponent is a terrorist

The end justify the means when they approve it and supports their narrative

Don't go there and be quiet



Did I mention they REALLY fucking hate having their bullshit and hypocrisy tossed in their faces.

While I am still friends with many some even from high school I lost both a lot of respect and a lot of trust. Some frankly scare me as they would clap and cheer as their neigborhood is being burned down in the name of BLM and Thigtifa. After all the cause is righteous.

If anything the last few days taught me the Left as whole is filled with hypocrites who suddenly pretend fake innocence and ignored the same behavior when their approved factions and organizations did the same thing. If Trump won they would have done the same thing. Except they would have been labelled Heroes! by the media and Leftists.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Daztur on January 07, 2021, 11:30:18 PM
So do you think that those breaking into the Capitol building should have been dealt with just as harshly as you advocated for those who rioted and vandalized in Portland, Seattle, and Kenosha? I believe that those who vandalize and engage in violence should be arrested and charged, regardless of their cause. Would you agree?

Do we have enough wet bus tickets to slap the Washington Patriots with?  If we are going to deal with them just as harshly as the Portland rioters I mean.

That's just dodging the question. You're calling out the other side as hypocritical -- but are you going to stand against hypocrisy?

What *should* have been done with both the Portland rioters and the Washington rioters?

They're not making a reasoned argument about political violence, they're just making excuses. It's the logic of a five year old "wah, wah, why are you blaming me, he did it first!" Because obviously you get a freebie to do anything bad as long as someone whose politics you don't like also did something vaguely similar. No sense of personal responsibility whatsoever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

I agree. If someone punches you around and knocks your teeth out that doesn't justify you punching them back. And just because they faced no consequences for what they did that doesn't mean you shouldn't either if you fight back. Violence is NEVER justified. You should just take your toothless grin and walk out. That's the grownup thing to do.

Let's compare two situations shall we?
A. Someone punches my teeth out and then I punch them in self defense.
B. Someone watches TV and sees some BLM people being violent and then next year they fly across the country and fight some cops.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/44570355/which-one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-other.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Daztur on January 07, 2021, 11:35:02 PM
tl;dr: Real life crept up ~ losing service for a while ~ got work anyway ~ be back l8r!

OOooooh! It IS a show! All this time I thought you were a nutcase. Someone earlier said you were playing the role of a character and I didn't buy it, but sure enough, they were right.

Yeah, really depressing seeing some of my favorite posters from the game discussion side of things posting masturbatory fantasies about righteous bloodshed.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 07, 2021, 11:59:34 PM
So do you think that those breaking into the Capitol building should have been dealt with just as harshly as you advocated for those who rioted and vandalized in Portland, Seattle, and Kenosha? I believe that those who vandalize and engage in violence should be arrested and charged, regardless of their cause. Would you agree?

Do we have enough wet bus tickets to slap the Washington Patriots with?  If we are going to deal with them just as harshly as the Portland rioters I mean.

That's just dodging the question. You're calling out the other side as hypocritical -- but are you going to stand against hypocrisy?

What *should* have been done with both the Portland rioters and the Washington rioters?

They're not making a reasoned argument about political violence, they're just making excuses. It's the logic of a five year old "wah, wah, why are you blaming me, he did it first!" Because obviously you get a freebie to do anything bad as long as someone whose politics you don't like also did something vaguely similar. No sense of personal responsibility whatsoever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

I agree. If someone punches you around and knocks your teeth out that doesn't justify you punching them back. And just because they faced no consequences for what they did that doesn't mean you shouldn't either if you fight back. Violence is NEVER justified. You should just take your toothless grin and walk out. That's the grownup thing to do.

Let's compare two situations shall we?
A. Someone punches my teeth out and then I punch them in self defense.
B. Someone watches TV and sees some BLM people being violent and then next year they fly across the country and fight some cops.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/44570355/which-one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-other.jpg)

Oh I got this one:

It’s the one where no one actually fights the cops and just wanders around taking selfies.

Two seconds on DuckDuckGo can find the other sort with Washington in flames
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on January 08, 2021, 12:20:19 AM
So do you think that those breaking into the Capitol building should have been dealt with just as harshly as you advocated for those who rioted and vandalized in Portland, Seattle, and Kenosha? I believe that those who vandalize and engage in violence should be arrested and charged, regardless of their cause. Would you agree?

Do we have enough wet bus tickets to slap the Washington Patriots with?  If we are going to deal with them just as harshly as the Portland rioters I mean.

That's just dodging the question. You're calling out the other side as hypocritical -- but are you going to stand against hypocrisy?

What *should* have been done with both the Portland rioters and the Washington rioters?

They're not making a reasoned argument about political violence, they're just making excuses. It's the logic of a five year old "wah, wah, why are you blaming me, he did it first!" Because obviously you get a freebie to do anything bad as long as someone whose politics you don't like also did something vaguely similar. No sense of personal responsibility whatsoever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

I agree. If someone punches you around and knocks your teeth out that doesn't justify you punching them back. And just because they faced no consequences for what they did that doesn't mean you shouldn't either if you fight back. Violence is NEVER justified. You should just take your toothless grin and walk out. That's the grownup thing to do.

Let's compare two situations shall we?
A. Someone punches my teeth out and then I punch them in self defense.
B. Someone watches TV and sees some BLM people being violent and then next year they fly across the country and fight some cops.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/44570355/which-one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-other.jpg)

Oh I got this one:

It’s the one where no one actually fights the cops and just wanders around taking selfies.

Two seconds on DuckDuckGo can find the other sort with Washington in flames

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/admin/a-capitol-police-officer-who-was-seriously-injured-wednesday-remains-on-life-support.amp.html

Or is it fake news?   I thought I read something like 30 officers were injured.  Or are they lying.  Blue  Lives Matter.  WTF happen to that?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on January 08, 2021, 12:26:37 AM
Yeah, I called that one, and it was an easy one, but there are a lot of people here that are just playing characters, and a lot of fake nonsense here. Even some of the people that are total raging asshats in their posts can have civil conversations over on the gaming side of the forum or in PMs. But here? Everyone is just here for Thunderdome.
Not everyone.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: myleftnut on January 08, 2021, 12:48:32 AM
Looks like there was some confusion about the officer dying as opposed to being on life support.  Looks like he finally died. 
https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/loss-uscp-colleague-brian-d-sicknick
Unless the USCP website is the left wing media. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: consolcwby on January 08, 2021, 12:50:05 AM
My last message of despair ~ Keep things lively until my return!
Also... Here's some things to mull over, my GIFT of DESPAIR:
-----------------------------------------------------
Last informational briefing before my forced vacation:
-----------------------------------------------------
THE STORMING OF THE CAPITAL, VIOLENCE EVERYWHERE: https://twitter.com/SiIasSavant/status/1346918693234683905
POLICE, doing their JOB, rounding up the PROTESTERS: https://twitter.com/DGPurser/status/1346978155681247234
WHITE NATIONALISTS threatening EVERYONE'S SAFETY: https://twitter.com/TheRightMelissa/status/1347006265080356864
THE TRUTH: https://twitter.com/pastorlocke/status/1346956977717567492

WHAT IS THE SOLUTION? THE FINAL SOLUTION: https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1347185999995142145
AND TRUMP? EVERYONE'S FAVORITE TUNE: https://twitter.com/davidcicilline/status/1347228936594477057

Former first lady Michelle Obama calls on tech companies to permanently ban President Trump from their platforms and put policies in place “to prevent their technology from being used by the nation’s leaders to fuel insurrection.”

AND WHAT DID I SAY? https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/breaking-zuckerberg-bans-president-trump-using-facebook-indefinitely/
                    https://twitter.com/HYVEE7/status/1347228991665688579

GET READY FOR IT: https://twitter.com/FCC/status/1347223453166931969

READ & UNDERSTAND: https://twitter.com/BrianTh37895972/status/1347170907274547203

This is not a drill. This is not a joke. War is coming. This is what I warned. This is what you wanted. The STORM IS COMING.
AND FOR THE PATRIOTS WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES ON THE 6th? TWAS THE SHOT HEARD 'ROUND THE WORLD!
THE DEEP STATE'S Crime Of Treason HAS BEEN COMPLETED!
Why did Trump wait until now, this very moment? What did ‘We The People’ just witness? Trump can see the DC board very clearly now. How do you drain a swamp? How do you have the swamp creatures expose themselves? Swamp creatures will only come out from the shadows when they feel safe. Trump needed to ‘hold the line’ for the right moment Aren’t we still in a National Emergency? What did Trump say yesterday in DC? “You don’t concede when there’s THEFT!” Trump is now free from the Rebublican party, they betrayed ? Trump is now FREE to do what he’s always WANTED to do= Drain The Swamp!

Good Luck! :)
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Daztur on January 08, 2021, 12:55:41 AM
So do you think that those breaking into the Capitol building should have been dealt with just as harshly as you advocated for those who rioted and vandalized in Portland, Seattle, and Kenosha? I believe that those who vandalize and engage in violence should be arrested and charged, regardless of their cause. Would you agree?

Do we have enough wet bus tickets to slap the Washington Patriots with?  If we are going to deal with them just as harshly as the Portland rioters I mean.

That's just dodging the question. You're calling out the other side as hypocritical -- but are you going to stand against hypocrisy?

What *should* have been done with both the Portland rioters and the Washington rioters?

They're not making a reasoned argument about political violence, they're just making excuses. It's the logic of a five year old "wah, wah, why are you blaming me, he did it first!" Because obviously you get a freebie to do anything bad as long as someone whose politics you don't like also did something vaguely similar. No sense of personal responsibility whatsoever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

I agree. If someone punches you around and knocks your teeth out that doesn't justify you punching them back. And just because they faced no consequences for what they did that doesn't mean you shouldn't either if you fight back. Violence is NEVER justified. You should just take your toothless grin and walk out. That's the grownup thing to do.

Let's compare two situations shall we?
A. Someone punches my teeth out and then I punch them in self defense.
B. Someone watches TV and sees some BLM people being violent and then next year they fly across the country and fight some cops.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/44570355/which-one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-other.jpg)

Oh I got this one:

It’s the one where no one actually fights the cops and just wanders around taking selfies.

Two seconds on DuckDuckGo can find the other sort with Washington in flames

No one fights the cops? Seriously? The MAGA idiots killed a cop.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: VisionStorm on January 08, 2021, 01:39:27 AM
So do you think that those breaking into the Capitol building should have been dealt with just as harshly as you advocated for those who rioted and vandalized in Portland, Seattle, and Kenosha? I believe that those who vandalize and engage in violence should be arrested and charged, regardless of their cause. Would you agree?

Do we have enough wet bus tickets to slap the Washington Patriots with?  If we are going to deal with them just as harshly as the Portland rioters I mean.

That's just dodging the question. You're calling out the other side as hypocritical -- but are you going to stand against hypocrisy?

What *should* have been done with both the Portland rioters and the Washington rioters?

They're not making a reasoned argument about political violence, they're just making excuses. It's the logic of a five year old "wah, wah, why are you blaming me, he did it first!" Because obviously you get a freebie to do anything bad as long as someone whose politics you don't like also did something vaguely similar. No sense of personal responsibility whatsoever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

I agree. If someone punches you around and knocks your teeth out that doesn't justify you punching them back. And just because they faced no consequences for what they did that doesn't mean you shouldn't either if you fight back. Violence is NEVER justified. You should just take your toothless grin and walk out. That's the grownup thing to do.

Let's compare two situations shall we?
A. Someone punches my teeth out and then I punch them in self defense.
B. Someone watches TV and sees some BLM people being violent and then next year they fly across the country and fight some cops.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/44570355/which-one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-other.jpg)

Neither one is like the other, because one of them is a hypothetical scenario and the other one is a strawman you constructed.

So do you think that those breaking into the Capitol building should have been dealt with just as harshly as you advocated for those who rioted and vandalized in Portland, Seattle, and Kenosha? I believe that those who vandalize and engage in violence should be arrested and charged, regardless of their cause. Would you agree?

Do we have enough wet bus tickets to slap the Washington Patriots with?  If we are going to deal with them just as harshly as the Portland rioters I mean.

That's just dodging the question. You're calling out the other side as hypocritical -- but are you going to stand against hypocrisy?

What *should* have been done with both the Portland rioters and the Washington rioters?

They're not making a reasoned argument about political violence, they're just making excuses. It's the logic of a five year old "wah, wah, why are you blaming me, he did it first!" Because obviously you get a freebie to do anything bad as long as someone whose politics you don't like also did something vaguely similar. No sense of personal responsibility whatsoever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

I agree. If someone punches you around and knocks your teeth out that doesn't justify you punching them back. And just because they faced no consequences for what they did that doesn't mean you shouldn't either if you fight back. Violence is NEVER justified. You should just take your toothless grin and walk out. That's the grownup thing to do.

Let's compare two situations shall we?
A. Someone punches my teeth out and then I punch them in self defense.
B. Someone watches TV and sees some BLM people being violent and then next year they fly across the country and fight some cops.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/44570355/which-one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-other.jpg)

Oh I got this one:

It’s the one where no one actually fights the cops and just wanders around taking selfies.

Two seconds on DuckDuckGo can find the other sort with Washington in flames

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/admin/a-capitol-police-officer-who-was-seriously-injured-wednesday-remains-on-life-support.amp.html

Or is it fake news?   I thought I read something like 30 officers were injured.  Or are they lying.  Blue  Lives Matter.  WTF happen to that?

I didn't know about that till earlier tonight and don't the circumstances around that. I did see a couple of videos of cops beating people up and throwing tear gas, so who knows how any of that happened. The guy killing a cop with a fire extinguisher sounds fucked up, though, so I disavow.

But I'm not really a "Blue Lives Matter" type, but more like "Fuck the Police". My main point of disagreement with BLM is the racebaiting and misinformation, not my general sentiments about the police.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Snowman0147 on January 08, 2021, 01:56:38 AM
Check this out.

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: jhkim on January 08, 2021, 02:06:42 AM
That's perfectly reasonable. Presidential even.

I have no problem with the speech. The thing is, that if *I* had said these words:

Quote from: Donald Trump
America is and must always be a nation of law and order. The demonstrators who infiltrated the Capitol have defiled the seat of American democracy. To those who engaged in the acts of violence and destruction, you do not represent our country. And to those who broke the law, you will pay.

We have just been through an intense election and emotions are high. But now, tempers must be cooled and calm restored. We must get on with the business of America.

then I would be blasted here as a Marxist cocksucker for attacking those good American protesters.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 08, 2021, 02:10:53 AM
I may have made mistake today yet glad I did I took two screen clippings that show the hypocrisy of many of the left and how when their side riots it's ok when the other does it it is "domestic terrorism" etc. from this thread.

I generally keep my political opinions to myself on social media. I use it to keep in contact with family and friends in other states, and to be connected with local gaming groups.

And mostly because, as we've seen here, political arguments online go nowhere fast and only generate indignant reactions.

The juice isn't worth the squeeze.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on January 08, 2021, 02:23:07 AM
I didn't know about that till earlier tonight and don't the circumstances around that. I did see a couple of videos of cops beating people up and throwing tear gas, so who knows how any of that happened. The guy killing a cop with a fire extinguisher sounds fucked up, though, so I disavow.

Hey, by killing a cop that hero saved some innocent,unarmed black man from getting gunned down in the future!  ;)

But I'm not really a "Blue Lives Matter" type, but more like "Fuck the Police". My main point of disagreement with BLM is the racebaiting and misinformation, not my general sentiments about the police.

Yeah, I keep asking all the 'defund the police' people where they were 30+ years ago when the "war" on drugs began and the government started handing military hardware to the cops and letting them do no-knock raids...

All I seem to get are blank stares. Go figure.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Shasarak on January 08, 2021, 06:13:26 AM
Or is it fake news?   I thought I read something like 30 officers were injured.  Or are they lying.  Blue  Lives Matter.  WTF happen to that?

They were Covid related injuries.

Probably should have stayed home to flatten the curve.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 08, 2021, 06:26:41 AM
Greetings!

On the Dividing Line program, Dr. James White discusses current political trends and developments, the critical importance of world view, and the implications of the coming of Socialism to America, and the threat to our Republic.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Pat on January 08, 2021, 06:57:17 AM
Looks like there was some confusion about the officer dying as opposed to being on life support.  Looks like he finally died. 
https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/loss-uscp-colleague-brian-d-sicknick
Unless the USCP website is the left wing media.
That's a remarkably useless press release. What does "injured while physically engaging with protesters" mean? It seems to be explicitly trying to avoid saying he was injured by protesters. Did he accidentally fall, have a heart attack while beating someone to death, get shot by another cop, or something like that? Any of those options could fit that mealy-mouthed inconclusive verbiage. They went out of their way to not say anything useful.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: deathknight4044 on January 08, 2021, 07:14:08 AM
Greatest commentary I have heard regarding the situation Specifically the 18:00 mark till the end.



Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 08, 2021, 08:01:25 AM
You know, for a coup, that was one of the least-armed coups I've ever seen.

Usually it involves lots of guns, and the military.

But hey, welcome to 2021, where dissent is no longer patriotic again.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: Abraxus on January 08, 2021, 08:17:57 AM
I generally keep my political opinions to myself on social media. I use it to keep in contact with family and friends in other states, and to be connected with local gaming groups.

And mostly because, as we've seen here, political arguments online go nowhere fast and only generate indignant reactions.

The juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Seconded

Though it is frightening to see at least in 2021 how easily people will ignore who their favored organizations and other similar thinking people see riots and attacks on other who they disagree with on every level yet refuse to call it violence because they are leftist and their narratives are being pushed. When the right or someone else they disagree does it they are terrorist. So as if the they think the cause is just in this cause firm believers in BLM and Thugtifa it;s ok to riot, harass etc. Somehow thinking those on the right won't engage in similar tactics.

In any case imo both sides have lost the moral high ground and the USA in general. Both sides are willing to do whatever it takes. Neither seems to want to talk to the other. Worse the ideological side which is supposed to be more tolerant such as the left has become like the right if not even worse. That is some major mental gymnastics to say rioting and looting and harassment are fine when it's for causes the Left believes. I still can't stand their fake innocence as I told them anyone actually paying attention would see that the USA was ready to explode. Or to put it another way "it's ok for me to riot and behave badly because subjectively the cause I believe in is righteous you not allowed to do the same because you don't think like me".   
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 08, 2021, 08:39:50 AM
In the early part of this thread - way back in November I predicted yesterday's violence - I just thought it would happen on Janury 20th....

-Ed C.

Anyone want to predict whether the next incel loser that shoots up a woman's gym comes out of this here forum instead of 4chan?
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: SHARK on January 08, 2021, 08:45:34 AM
Greatest commentary I have heard regarding the situation Specifically the 18:00 mark till the end.




Greetings!

Indeed, my friend! The video commentary is spot on and excellent. Our Republic has been subverted. We will have freedom and liberty crushed and Marxist-Globalist oppression rammed down our throats.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: ArrozConLeche on January 08, 2021, 08:49:05 AM
Though it is frightening to see at least in 2021 how easily people will ignore who their favored organizations and other similar thinking people see riots and attacks on other who they disagree with on every level yet refuse to call it violence

Exactly as is happening here and with so many of Trump's supporters. The willingness to condone and cheer on what happened shows the same lack of integrity that peopole at TBP show.

If the only principled value that separates this forum from the big purple is this modified version of 'free speech' (so long as Pundit allows  it, right?), then this forum is almost as morally bankrupt. 
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: RPGPundit on January 08, 2021, 09:14:26 AM
I'm closing this.
Title: Re: 2020 Election Commentary
Post by: moonsweeper on January 08, 2021, 09:14:41 AM
In the early part of this thread - way back in November I predicted yesterday's violence - I just thought it would happen on Janury 20th....

-Ed C.

Anyone want to predict whether the next incel loser that shoots up a woman's gym comes out of this here forum instead of 4chan?

Sure...

Its not going to happen with anybody here.