Quizical things from Zelazny's Amber.

RPGPundit · May 20, 2009, 02:08:00 AM

Quote from: gabriel_ss4u;3014061) (chapter 6); Caine; "I'll be satisfied to serve the winner. That regency should be nice. I'd still like Random's head as part of the price, though"
Why do you suppose he hates Random so??? thoughts?

Random seemed to piss off a lot of people. He was the baby of the family, with all the irresponsibility that went with that, and he had one HELL of a rebellious-little-shit stage.

Quote2) Corwin: "Of Shadow I have this to say;there is Shadow and there is Substance, and this is the root of all things. Of Substance, there is only Amber, the real city, upon the real Earth, which contains everything."
Which contains everything...

Hyperbole.

Quote3) Corwin, before pulling out Bleys' Trump; "I dried my hands on my cloak as I spoke and wiped them carefully, as I'd hate to smudge a work of art."
wiping blood from the battle I believe... sounds as if this may affect trump somehow? or just poetic verbage?

It could just smudge the trump, without actually affecting it.

Quote4) As Corwin threw his trump to Bleys, as Bleys fell, who's Trump do you suppose he used?

I would guess Fiona.

Quote5) Corwin, after escaping the dungeon: "Troubled by dreams of werewolves and Sabbats, I slept, and the full moon rose above the world."
Did Eric have anything to do with his nightmare, being he controls the weir?

I figure it was just a dream.

Quote6) Corwin; "I had set sail for a land near as sparkling as Amber itself, an almost immortal place, a place that did not really exist, not any longer.It was a place that vanishes into Chaos ages ago."
Did Chaos itself take over Avalon??

It was destroyed, possibly by primal chaos from a shadow storm; possibly a chaos lord, possibly by Oberon, maybe by Corwin himself.

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gabriel_ss4u · May 20, 2009, 12:41:10 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;303390It was destroyed, possibly by primal chaos from a shadow storm; possibly a chaos lord, possibly by Oberon, maybe by Corwin himself.

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All good possibilities!

In my ideas, he couldn't resist but have another 'Avalon' type place within his realms from his Pattern.
But it was closer to Chaos than his original, and this caused a boarder war with House Sepharoth. (IMC) This fits in very well as the Head of the House was the one (IMC) that destroyed the 1st Avalon.

It's one of those places in the novels you can write great scenarios in to explain. (My Chaos wars are better than Bentencourt's)

Lady Vivamus · May 20, 2009, 06:16:13 PM

Quote from: gabriel_ss4u;303485(My Chaos wars are better than Bentencourt's)

Doesn't take a whole lot to be better than Betancourt...

Croaker · May 20, 2009, 06:52:26 PM

Soo true

gabriel_ss4u · July 08, 2009, 05:16:55 PM

I was going thruogh my underlinings of GoA, and these things were quizzical to me, or at least merited notice:

1) In the 1st sentence of the 1st chapter;
'I stood there on the beach and said, "Good-by Butterfly," and the ship slowly turned and headed out toward deep water. It would make it back to the lighthouse at Cabra, I knew, for that place lay near shadow.'
Sorcery? he stood, not walked to manipulate Pattern...
This is before he has advanced Pattern.

2) Chapter 2; Stygalldwir (which IMC is of House Rammus)
"I am not one of the lesser ones" it states, and proceeds to fight Corwin. Corwin cuts it 2x and runs it through with Grayswandir, yet it STILL lives, til he snaps it's neck.

Has anyone used a demon of this level of power in their stories, that could withstand Pattern blades to a certain extent?
any thoughts on it?

3) Chapter 4/1st paragraph , "Arrow of Desire"
'I unleashed an arrow of my desire into the midnight and it took fire overhead, burned it's way like a meteor into the north.'

any explanations to this? Possibly a way or precursor to lead into the Shadow of desire he was going to, Avalon?
Perhaps the 1st sign on the path is a falling meteor into the north?

4) In chapter 4 Corwin has a 3rd bad dream. I believe someone was reaching into his dreams somehow or using trump to affect him, dream pattern? dream trump? something.
It may be the effect of the black orad and his curse, but I like the 1st idea, knowing others ARE looking for him.

5) About 1/2 way through chapter 6;
"Version? It is my Avalon," he said
"Yes, this is my Avalon," he continued, "and I'll be coming back here for my opld age, if we live through Amber."

Has anyone though that Oberon as Genelon may have been saying the truth of things, and that if he did survive the Pattern remake, he may be in Avalon?

6) Chapter 7 / near the end of chapter.
'I moved off the road and stood in the shade, taking out the deck of Trumps Benedict had been carrying. I rifled through them, located Ge'rard, and removed him from the pack. The rest I returned to the silk-lined, wooden case, inlaid with bone, in which Benedict had carried them.
I held Ge'rard's Trump before me and regarded it.
After a time it grew warm, real, seemed to stir. I felt Ge'rard's actual presence. He was in Amber

Warm? Is this the only place they are warm, not cool?
This is slightly confusing to me. anyone?

7) Chapter 8 ...1/2 way through
"How did you cut the Black Road? You destroyed a section of it at the place you crossed over. How did you do it?"
"The Pattern." I said "If you ever get in trouble with that thing, hit it with the Pattern. You know how you have to sometimes hold it in your mind if Shadows begin to run away from you and things start going wild?"

Shadows run away from you and things go wild... anyone ever use this in scenario description? Near Chaos I understand, but anyone have any other ideas on it?

Chapter 9, near end.
;
"No, I'm not going to give you my death curse,. I've reserved that for the enemies of Amber - out there. "He gestured with his eyes. He pronounced it then, in a whisper, and I shuttered to overhear it.

Time to play RZ, if you could pronounce Eric's death curse, how would you word it? What do you think he stated in that Amberite shuttering phrase?

Well, that's it. I look forward to seeing everyone's input.
I'll save the next book for another month or two.
Ciao,
Gabriel

gabriel_ss4u · July 08, 2009, 05:19:58 PM

I'm aware that 'poetic verse' or 'writer's privilege' may be the answer for some, but try to avoid that as yours, let's try to theorize it for game application or story incorporation.

Stormwind · July 09, 2009, 06:13:24 AM

Quote from: gabriel_ss4u;312659

7) Chapter 8 ...1/2 way through
"How did you cut the Black Road? You destroyed a section of it at the place you crossed over. How did you do it?"
"The Pattern." I said "If you ever get in trouble with that thing, hit it with the Pattern. You know how you have to sometimes hold it in your mind if Shadows begin to run away from you and things start going wild?"

Shadows run away from you and things go wild... anyone ever use this in scenario description? Near Chaos I understand, but anyone have any other ideas on it?

I always visualized this as a cross between the conditions which form a shadow storm and shapeshifting gone wild. I actually ran one F2F game with this as a basis for an idea as a sub-plot, but unfortunately, none of the PC's were sufficiently interested in figuring out what had happened, or even trying to use pattern on it ... they simply ran away from it, basically ignoring it and remaining focused on the main plot which was a bit of a pity, but in the end, I always feel its the players game and they sure did have fun with it.

To elaborate on the idea, I had a plane where shapeshifting was basically a primal power, everything was shifting continuously and in fact one would have needed shapeshifting just to survive in there. Nethertheless it was a fairly stable place, continuous changing yes, but in some sort of balance. Then due to some outside interference (adv. pattern & adv. logrus use by NPC's tied into the main plot), the balance was disturbed and the conditions for a shadow storm to form were met. The combination of the unbalance, the shadow storm, and the shapeshifting nature of the shadow all contributed to form something special ... something I described with those words "Shadows begin to run away from you and things start going wild".

gabriel_ss4u · July 09, 2009, 10:34:46 AM

Cool, this is what I envisioned the living extremes of the Shadow that House Laseema lives within, being they are advanced shapeshifters and excommunicated from Chaos.
(House Laseema based on House Lessiman originally created by Jvstin)
??

RPGPundit · July 09, 2009, 11:41:30 PM

"arrow of desire" is clearly writers' poetic license, borrowed from Blake.

The Trump growing warm; well, it might mean visually "warm" the way people say some paintings are warm.
In any case, we know that trumps feel cool to the touch, unless their subject is dead or the trump has somehow lost its power; but maybe it warms up somewhat when in use?

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gabriel_ss4u · July 10, 2009, 01:40:21 AM

Yes, I thought it may warm up when in use, but there is no other instance of it I believe.
Also Benedict may have had a special set that worked differently, but again, this was never stated either.
I've often wondered if it was a typo, and he meant to put 'cool' or 'cold' there.

I know the questions are on the previous page, but c',on, let's hear the ideas...
is everyone bizzee with character concepts for jibbajibba's game? LOL
I know I am.

jibbajibba · July 10, 2009, 05:09:31 AM

Actually busy with an extensive Database Audit .. but ...

Xenon · July 10, 2009, 01:49:44 PM

oh, im on my 3rd character concept so far, still running it round my head to see how it changes between concept and what i actually want to play. but you know how some aspects of a character you cant know until it hits auction.

personally, i always thought that 'of desire' means that hes finding a 'shadow of desire' condition with his pattern ability.

as for shadows going wild- i would suspect that past ygg, there are places where shadow is just more volatile, and starts to react to the subconscious thoughts and desires of those with power, a case of their power running away from them unless they keep a handle on it.

i do like the idea of Oberon having retired to a pleasant shadow somewhere.

gabriel_ss4u · July 12, 2009, 08:00:44 PM

Quote from: Xenon;313030oh, im on my 3rd character concept so far, still running it round my head to see how it changes between concept and what i actually want to play. but you know how some aspects of a character you cant know until it hits auction.

I'm doing the same... been through a few thoughts, but my true desire has come out, I'm thinking of replaying my 1st character.

Quote from: Xenon;313030personally, i always thought that 'of desire' means that hes finding a 'shadow of desire' condition with his pattern ability.

yeah, that's why I thought his arrow may have been preliminary to finding his desired Shadow, Avalon. (or one close enough like it at that time in the story)

Quote from: Xenon;313030as for shadows going wild- i would suspect that past ygg, there are places where shadow is just more volatile, and starts to react to the subconscious thoughts and desires of those with power, a case of their power running away from them unless they keep a handle on it.

I'm with you on this, it would be interesting to make shadow-shifting more 'slippery' when describing them close to Chaos.
As if the PC's desired descriptions slip away from them to similar or random things if Psyche isn't up to par.

Quote from: Xenon;313030i do like the idea of Oberon having retired to a pleasant shadow somewhere.

Yeah, there is a feeling that this line in the books let's us all harbor that thought with a smile.

RPGPundit · July 14, 2009, 01:59:09 AM

Quote from: Xenon;313030personally, i always thought that 'of desire' means that hes finding a 'shadow of desire' condition with his pattern ability.

Yes, fine, but I think the "arrow of desire" business was just a quirky little thing Corwin did, in homage to Blake, that had no essencial necessity to it or meaning beyond Corwin just doing his thing.

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Schattensturm · July 14, 2009, 09:32:03 AM

Well, let us just consider that Avalon's destiny was such immensely shaped by Corwin, that once he lost control of it and no longer held the threads, that which remained no longer corresponded with Corwin's vision of how Avalon should be. The opposite of this imaginary order of things would be chaos. Just imagine how England would have appeared to King Arthur 200 years after he had died? The land subverted by Christians and Saxons, his former enemies, and now they not only rule the land, but are also attacked by Danes and Norwegians and the Celts are at the brink of destruction. I'd call this chaos.