I know I'm occasionally down on Dungeon World (mostly 'cause I'm a shitface), but now that I've been exposed to "fiction first" mechanics, I'm in love with them.  Having played mostly D&D 3e/Pathfinder in my lifetime, I had only been exposed to extremely crunchy mechanics with lots of fiddly bits.  For the longest time, I struggled to force the d20 system to do what I wanted.  It was always an uphill battle for me, a grind to fit the system into a box that didn't want to work.

But now that I've been exposed to the idea of "fiction first" mechanics, it's like:



I'm not struggling to smash , I'm struggling with evocative prose and the consequences of my writing.  For instance, I was really having trouble with a stealth mechanic.  In Dungeon World, stealth is mostly handled by Defy Danger or DM moves, and that didn't sit with me.  Today, I've figured out the general idea of how I'm going to do it, and it was like:

Quote from: Archangel Fascist;739190I'm not struggling to smash , I'm struggling with evocative prose and the consequences of my writing.  For instance, I was really having trouble with a stealth mechanic.  In Dungeon World, stealth is mostly handled by Defy Danger or DM moves, and that didn't sit with me.  Today, I've figured out the general idea of how I'm going to do it, and it was like:

Well, share with the group, then.

WTF is a "fiction first mechanic"? I Googled the term but this thread is the only thing RPG related that came up.

My dear old gran always said to me, "whenever a troll thread closes, another is sure to open."

Quote from: hedgehobbit;739200WTF is a "fiction first mechanic"? I Googled the term but this thread is the only thing RPG related that came up.

It's Teh Fiction, man, it comes first!

I'm sorry, did I accidentally stumble onto tumblr, with all those gifs every paragraph?

Quote from: hedgehobbit;739200WTF is a "fiction first mechanic"? I Googled the term but this thread is the only thing RPG related that came up.

It's where you focus on what is happening in "the fiction" (Dungeon World term that means "in-character") instead of numbers.

Quote from: One Horse Town;739206My dear old gran always said to me, "whenever a troll thread closes, another is sure to open."

My dear old gran said, "Go choke on a cock."  Well, she didn't, but the suggestions still stands.

I struggled with the idea in Dungeon World, but someone showed me Monsterhearts and it really clicked for me there... Though personally I'd rather have a slightly less dark take on that game.

What he means is that you frame all the resolutions directly in terms of stuff you describe with natural language describing the imaginary stuff. It's partly a reflection of damage from earlier bad gaming, partly a reflection of innumeracy and/or lack of perspective (insofar as it's claimed to be a critique of traditional RPGs). But he's got a point, still.

Quote from: Arminius;739236What he means is that you frame all the resolutions directly in terms of stuff you describe with natural language describing the imaginary stuff.

I don't understand how a "fiction first mechanic" would do such a thing any better than a normal old mechanic. For example, if my character needs to climb a wall, how is rolling 2d6 and trying to get a 10 any more fiction first than rolling 1d20 and trying to get a 16?

Quote from: hedgehobbit;739239I don't understand how a "fiction first mechanic" would do such a thing any better than a normal old mechanic. For example, if my character needs to climb a wall, how is rolling 2d6 and trying to get a 10 any more fiction first than rolling 1d20 and trying to get a 16?

That's not a very good example of a "fiction first" mechanic.  I'll give a better example with spells.  In D&D, for example, you've got fireball.  In D&D, here's how it works:

• The spell's range is 400 feet, +40 feet per level..
• The spell affects a sphere in a 20-ft. radius.
• The spell does 1d6 damage/level and is an evocation spell with the [fire] tag, so it will have a lesser or greater effect on creatures with the appropriate resistance or vulnerability.

And this bit:

QuoteYou point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

And this:

QuoteThe fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

In a "fiction first" approach, you might just say:

• Fireball is a spell that envelops an area in flames, doing X damage.

The important bits in the "fiction first" approach are:

(1) It's a spell, so it requires you to wave around your hands and chant (or however else spellcasters work in your setting).

(2) It affects an area.

(3) It's fiery (so duh it can start things on fire), and its power depends on the enemy you're fighting.  An ice creature probably melts really fast; a salamander just ignores it.

Okay, fair enough.

(long pause)

I admit I'm still waiting, though, to be instructed as to how this is a "troll thread."

Except in so far as any time now, I have this sinking feeling that someone's going to screech "OMG it sounds like a storygame thing!!!  Unclean!  Unclean!!  UNCLEEEEEAN!!!"

Quote from: Archangel Fascist;739243In a "fiction first" approach, you might just say:

• Fireball is a spell that envelops an area in flames, doing X damage.

Wait, I'm pretty sure pure abstract numbers is not what the DW designer guy said he meant by "the fiction." Sounded to me more like that happening-in-the-world, perceiveable-by-characters kind of stuff you get in old D&D and so on.

Shit, if you just want minimal detail, then the original D&D booklets will REALLY blow your mind, dude.

When I first read it, I thought OP meant a system tailored around a specific setting, genre or theme.

Is "fiction first" just a fancy way of saying lighter, more abstract mechanics? That's it? My first RPG wasn't A&D 2E, 3.5 or PF so maybe I just come from a different perspective, but I really don't see what's so mind blowing about that. There's pros & cons to having a simpler vs more complex system, but there isn't much to say on that subject.

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