WTF is "Lords of Creation"?

Now, I have absolutely ZERO evidence of this, but it's always struck me that 'Urban Fantasy' is an incredibly small but popular niche of the literary market, which I suppose translate to an equally small niche of the gaming market.

And in my totally anecdotal experience, most of that market are women, most of which love Vampires in some fashion.

So maybe it's not seen as all that much of a money maker?

Quote from: Phantom Black;846658WTF is "Lords of Creation"?

The other 80's game Tom Moldvay of Basic D&D fame created.

A gonzo dimension-travel thing with a lot of mixing-and-matching of genres... sort of a precursor to RIFTS and Torg.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;846660Now, I have absolutely ZERO evidence of this, but it's always struck me that 'Urban Fantasy' is an incredibly small but popular niche of the literary market, which I suppose translate to an equally small niche of the gaming market.

And in my totally anecdotal experience, most of that market are women, most of which love Vampires in some fashion.

So maybe it's not seen as all that much of a money maker?

Women buy more than 80% of all books sold in the Western world.

Of course, the vast majority of those are romance novels, which outsell every other genre of fiction by a Huuuuuuuuge margin, but the point still stands.

Well, there was Nephilim which was pretty big - in France.

I always felt that Chaosium mangled the game in the translation, and didn't play it up to the audience that would look for a kinda-WoD.

It was a perfect alternative to WoD, with a unique take on supernatural creatures hiding among humans.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;846681Well, there was Nephilim which was pretty big - in France.

I always felt that Chaosium mangled the game in the translation, and didn't play it up to the audience that would look for a kinda-WoD.

It was a perfect alternative to WoD, with a unique take on supernatural creatures hiding among humans.

I retain a fascination with the Chaosium Nephilim adaption. Its managed to come so close to getting everything right, but failed spectacularly. It houses so many wonderful bits of awesomeness, including one of the most "authentic" approaches to Occult magick to ever grace the pages of an RPG. The concept of developing a character over a series of past lives was great, and I remain surprised no game ever emulated that: especially games ostensibly dealing with immortal characters such as vampires. But its execution was so flawed that it remains as a book that Ive consistently mined for ideas over the years but would never even consider running as it is.

And this isnt the first time I regret no being fluent in French in regards to an rpg. Their editions of Call of Cthulhu turn me Cthulhoid green with envy.

There is plenty of urban fantasy/horror out there. But for some reason developers usually choose for an investigative game or a supernatural spy game or a game where you form a band of monsters who do the Hellboy thing.

Those games are easier to setup, because all you need is your party and a quest. You don't need 30-40 NPC's who form some sort of supernatural society. It's just a team of specialists (hacker, faceman, thief, scout etc.) or a team of investigators (gumshoe, doctor, history teacher, scientist etc.) who go out and solve things. No urban fantasy game is going for the political angle. I don't know why.

Btw, I think the Dresden Files fills roughly the same niche as the WoD, but it's Fate and that's a little too arty farty for my taste. And I also think Fae Nightmares for SW will fill the same niche, but that game still has to come out.

Quote from: PencilBoy99;846608<< this is where you mention the awesome kick-starter you're doing for just this sort of game, or maybe some OSR-like version of Witchcraft or something >>

You could of course take a look at my pdf for Ferals, that has a White Wolf - inspired base, and if I manage to get it actually finished, I plan on adding other "titles" with the same basic rules, but different specifics, of which one is ... a bit of a lighthearted (but with depth) version of Vampire mixed with a few other WoD-titles.

Maybe the emo angst market can only support one line of games at a time.

Speaking of French based Urban Fantasy RPG's... Steve Jackson games made their own version of In Nomie, which had something of a following in the 90's as well...

Looking back at it...If you wanted to make a competitor to the WoD that was different in it's own way.... Angels and Demons might be the way to go..You could always expand from their with adding Mages as well, as another playable type...

Throw in Vampires and Werewolves, but as lesser beings.

Of course, Angels and Demons might not have the same draw as they did in the 90's...given the continuing falling of religion in the current cultural sphere.

Being an Atheist this doesn't bother me so much, but it's just something I thought of which might impact such a game.

I never was a fan of oWoD or nWoD but i think that if someone can make an Exalted-ish game that fulfills all the promises that WW/OPP's Exalted makes and never delivers on, that'd be a real goldmine.

So yeah, i have asked myself the same basic question as the OP (just focused on Exalted).

One reason there isnt any major competitors is that White Wolf carved out a niche outside the fantasy realm and pretty much carved it as good as it could get within that niche. It struck just the right balance of nhilism and pessimistic optimism. Anything else was going to feel either too grim or too light. In Nomme, Immortal, Nightlife, and Nightbreed all tried for that and I think only Nightlife really hit that balance too. But was so obscure it never caught on against the WW juggernaut. Nightbreed comes in close second. Nomme was too bleak and Immortal was a cypher.

Quote from: One Horse Town;846705Maybe the emo angst market can only support one line of games at a time.

You're correct, but who says a rival to WoD must target the emo angst market specifically?

Quote from: Catelf;846709You're correct, but who says a rival to WoD must target the emo angst market specifically?

I'd pay for a solid, popular alternative to Werewolf that ditched the apocalyptic pessimism and character restrictions.

Eden Studios: Witchcrafy, Armageddon, AFMBE, Conspiracy X, Terra Primate

[in declining order of similarity to White Wolf]

They're medium crunch, do urban occult well, and then if you really like Buffy and Angel there are still copies of those in the second hand market.

Dan Davenport (around here) reviewed them all to bits on the Big Purple years ago, and I bought them all!

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/classic/rev_7443.phtml

Free Witchcraft:
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/692/CJ-Carrellas-WitchCraft?it=1