I was trying to avoid 5e, S'mon.  Simply because I don't think it qualifies for the silly OSR label, it's got too much 'new' stuff, so I'm told.

I must agree with previous posters and say RuneQuest is a lock for this. Broadly skilled characters who aren't locked into a class? Got it. Visceral bloody combat? Check. I'd run it with RQ6, as this version has as much in common with classic RuneQuest as any OSR D&D has with whichever version it's based off. Set Magic Point regeneration to 1/week, but allow sacrifices to accumulate MPs, as well as possibly sacred locations or alignments of the moon and so on. No Theism; the gods don't care. Most "Sorcerers" use Folk Magic and trickery. Sorcery gained by pacting with unholy entities, or Magic items. Use the Mysticism rules not only for Eastern Mystics but also for preternaturally physically skilled barbarians and such. That way you can have specimens like Conan who can Augment Athletics, Acrobatics, Willpower, or Endurance, and Increase Action Points or Hit Points, Invoke Denial Food, Increase Healing Rate, Invoke Aura of Intimidation, etc to allow them to fight off hordes of foes and survive desert wandering beyond the capabilities of mere mortals. I let my Mystics regenerate Magic Points by Mediating (1/hour), but a Barbarian could do this by Carousing. Done.

The question is, is RuneQuest OSR? I know it doesn't get classed with the OSR, but it's a pretty Old School game, just not D&D. In terms of emulating Swords and Sorcery, I think it works a hell of a lot better than D&D and its derivatives. They seem far more attuned to, well, D&D fantasy, either Old School dungeon crawling or Middle School High Fantasy. Why keep trying to hammer their square peg into the round hole of S&S when there's a great ruleset out there for just that?

My understanding was that Pundit wasn't asking which vintage games from the 70s and 80s do S&S well, but which new OSR games do it well. Maybe he can clarify.

Well I stand by my claim that RQ6 is an OSR game ... Any takers?

Quote from: markfitz;872075Well I stand by my claim that RQ6 is an OSR game ... Any takers?

To be clear, I wasn't reponding to you specifically.

Quote from: Chainsaw;872078To be clear, I wasn't reponding to you specifically.

Yeah sorry Chainsaw, I got that. I'm interested in stirring up the hornet's nest on "who gets to be OSR", specifically because I really believe that S&S and D&D are actually a bad fit. Just bouncing off your comment to state that clearly.

Quote from: markfitz;872079Yeah sorry Chainsaw, I got that. I'm interested in stirring up the hornet's nest on "who gets to be OSR", specifically because I really believe that S&S and D&D are actually a bad fit. Just bouncing off your comment to state that clearly.

OK, cool. :cool:

Quote from: markfitz;872075Well I stand by my claim that RQ6 is an OSR game ... Any takers?

I'll take it, because I agree.

Quote from: Simlasa;872083I'll take it, because I agree.

Yeah there may actually be no "hornet's nest" on this, just people either saying they agree, or "sure, if you want". I'm curious though. Can the OSR umbrella be expanded to include other older games like Traveller, Call of Cthulhu, and RuneQuest? Or is it too tied in the common imagination to D&D and its derivatives?

Quote from: JeremyR;871997Crypts & Things

Another vote here, especially with the new version coming.

Of course my own game below would be a good fit too, except it is not intended for a single genre, but tries to be usable for many genres.

I will be using Earthdawn 4, and stealing Morale, Reaction Checks, Hex-crawl rules, and other Procedural Generation methods from "Delving Deeper", the Alexandrian blog, & the first few D&D incarnations. Plus adding my own mass-combat rules that work seemlessly with normal combat.

I've already run Hommlet with ED3 & some of the above, and the improvements in ED4 make me really look forward to running other old-school and OSR modules.

Quote from: markfitz;872094Yeah there may actually be no "hornet's nest" on this, just people either saying they agree, or "sure, if you want". I'm curious though. Can the OSR umbrella be expanded to include other older games like Traveller, Call of Cthulhu, and RuneQuest? Or is it too tied in the common imagination to D&D and its derivatives?

I don't find it useful, personally, to include RQ in OSR. There are ideological/historical reasons to include or exclude it, and then probably a bunch of reasons to argue over whether a given RQ edition/derivative is or isn't old-school. But to avoid that, and for the sake of utility, I'm happy to just think of D&D derivatives as OSR.

As you can see, though, nobody is calling foul on suggesting RQ/BRP, because it's clear where the idea is coming from and it really isn't disrupting the thread.

I will say though in response to one of your posts above that I believe a game could be close enough to D&D to fall uncontroversially under the OSR moniker, and also be a good fit for S&S.

Quote from: Arminius;872103I don't find it useful, personally, to include RQ in OSR. There are ideological/historical reasons to include or exclude it, and then probably a bunch of reasons to argue over whether a given RQ edition/derivative is or isn't old-school. But to avoid that, and for the sake of utility, I'm happy to just think of D&D derivatives as OSR.

As you can see, though, nobody is calling foul on suggesting RQ/BRP, because it's clear where the idea is coming from and it really isn't disrupting the thread.

Yeah that's cool. I guess the argument is maybe material for a different thread! And I actually tend to agree with you. As it stands, OSR does seem to be confined to D&D/derivatives. That's where the renaissance made sense, as subsequent rulesets deviated from previous editions more, perhaps, than RQ did. Still, as you say it perhaps muddies the waters to expect disagreement.

Quote from: markfitz;872094Can the OSR umbrella be expanded to include other older games like Traveller, Call of Cthulhu, and RuneQuest? Or is it too tied in the common imagination to D&D and its derivatives?

For myself, I think it has more to do with HOW you play than WHAT you play. But some rules... including Classic Traveller, RQ and CoC promote (or get out of the way of) that style more than others do.
Then again, I was never a rabid fan of D&D or Mr. Gygax or any of that 'days of yore' stuff Geezer pumps out. I just know that the OSR label on stuff gives me a clue that I might like what's being sold.

If I had to pick a D&D-type game I'd pick DCC with the Tales of the Fallen Empire sourcebook... but that's surely influenced by my liking DCC and having both books at hand. Crypts & Things isn't something I've experienced.

I haven't played Crypts & Things so I can't comment on it.

FOR ME, I would go Stormbringer or OD&D/Swords & Wizardry: White Box. For whatever reason, MY VIEW of S&S seems to work great with OD&D.

I don't know why exactly, but Cleric/Fighter/Mage vs. the world of monsters works for what I imagine as S&S.