In your opinion?

Can I ask for a clarification?

What kind of Sword and Sorcery?  Are we talking the short stories by Fritz Leiber, Robert E. Howard, Karl Edward Wagner et al?  Or are we talking about the various comics/magazines of the 70's to 80's, like The Savage Sword of Conan, Red Sonja, Mike Grell's Warlord, Klaw the Barbarian and the rest of them?

They're definitely two different 'tones' to the same genre, in my opinion.

Quote from: RPGPundit;871984In your opinion?

Not really a permissable answer, but frankly I'm finding my 5e Wilderlands game with mostly Fighter/Barbarian/Rogue PCs captures exactly the Swords & Sorcery feel I like. The 5e combat is vastly more visceral-S&S in feel than any other version of D&D I've seen. I think this is because of Bounded Accuracy, there is a lot of hacking and splattering and very little of old-D&D's frequent whiffing. It's really amazing to me how they achieved such a big change in feel with just a few rules changes. I do have one major houserule though that supports the feel: negative hit points, you die at negative max hp. I've recently been running a 5e game with the regular hp rules, and all that popping up again definitely isn't very S&S at all.

Crypts & Things


(And I don't see how constantly hitting in combat but inflating everything's hit point totals to compensate in 5e is more swords & sorcery or "visceral".)

Quote from: JeremyR;871997Crypts & Things

Ditto.

People tend to define the genre with different emphases, so that's going to muddy the waters here. There's a ton of source material. Anyway, I like AS&SH, billed as "Swords, Sorcery and Weird Fantasy," but I also think AD&D can do Swords & Sorcery just fine depending on the setting and adventures. I have not read Crypts and Things, but it sounds like a good OD&D-based choice.

AS&SH for me, but like Chainsaw says you can get a S&S feel out of O/AD&D by clipping out the medieval/Tolkien elements.

Just about any edition of Runequest or Stormbringer. I favor RQ6.

If OSR = TSR D&D-based, probably Crypts & Things, but I don't own it.

Mongoose (d20) Conan did a great job too, IMHO.

Yep, RuneQuest or Stormbringer.

RuneQuest or Stormbringer for me as well.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;871991What kind of Sword and Sorcery?  Are we talking the short stories by Fritz Leiber, Robert E. Howard, Karl Edward Wagner et al?  Or are we talking about the various comics/magazines of the 70's to 80's, like The Savage Sword of Conan, Red Sonja, Mike Grell's Warlord, Klaw the Barbarian and the rest of them?

Which game would you use for which?

I'd use Crypts &Things for Leiber, Howard, Wagner (and plain AD&D for pastiche like the Conan the Destroyer movie - if there ever was a movie plot that feels like a typical D&D session of its time it's this).
Or Zenobia but that one isn't "OSR".

Crimson Blades or Elric! for Eternal Champion style adventures.

Warlord cries out for Fantastic Heroes & Witchery.

And I don't know why but Searchers of the Unknown feels like Dying Earth for me - even in its French La Lune et Douze Lotus incarnation which would suit Howard's Conan equally well, as well as probably Harold Lamb's Khlit the Cossack.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;872043Which game would you use for which?

That's a very good question.  The issue I have is that if absolutely nothing else, D&D and it's derivatives require healing magic at the bare minimum, unless you're willing to lose weeks of time in game (which I want to stress is perfectly fine.)  There's also the basic conceit of every class is a specialist, and that S&S heroes are not, they have a broad range of skills.

Now, personally, if I have to use an old game for REH, Ashton Clark, Andre Norton style, I'd probably go with a version Runequest (MRQ is the version I know best, sadly, don't judge me too harshly, I'm Canadian, we didn't get the good stuff from the Old Country.)  Probably houserule that mutherfocker to DEATH, like removing magic from the hands of Players.

As for Savage Sword of Conan, Red Sonja, Warlord and all the other mags that came out...  That's a tough one.  Mook rules didn't really exist as a codified system, and systems of handling multiple opponents were more or less frowned on over here at the time, so I don't know of any game that would do the more cinematic style action.  So you got me there.

DCC, Epees&Sorcellerie, Runequest 6th or Savage Worlds of Solomon Kane, IMO. Though nearly all of these require forbidding wizards.
Or just use Barbarians of Lemuria, which is actually almost as old-school as it gets.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;872043Which game would you use for which?

I'd use Crypts &Things for Leiber, Howard, Wagner (and plain AD&D for pastiche like the Conan the Destroyer movie - if there ever was a movie plot that feels like a typical D&D session of its time it's this).

For hardcore Howard (Kull/Conan) I think Crypts & Things is a good option. It doesn't feel particularly Leiberesque to me. With Nehwon's lightning bolt & magic missile spamming wizards, ice gnomes & invisibles etc, I think a regular D&D adaptation minus elves dwarves & halflings is probably best. I ran TSR's 1e AD&D Lankhmar setting, and that worked fine.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;872044That's a very good question.  The issue I have is that if absolutely nothing else, D&D and it's derivatives require healing magic at the bare minimum, unless you're willing to lose weeks of time in game (which I want to stress is perfectly fine.)  There's also the basic conceit of every class is a specialist, and that S&S heroes are not, they have a broad range of skills.

5e has fast hp recovery. I gave my 5e PCs Proficiency in all their class skills, which solved the broad competency issue. Pre-3e D&D with no skills system you can just say the PCs are broadly competent, so I don't see that as a big issue.

Biggest problem with pre-4e D&D is that very low level PCs are so weak (also the pre-3e Thief skill % system encourages an impression of incompetence if not handled well by the GM). For a classic S&S feel starting your Fighting Men at 3rd level/4000 XP is probably best, and increase the rate of healing, eg 1/level/day or more.