I think it's likely that the vast majority of both cWoD and nWoD sales are to people who will look at them, read them or just put them on a shelf.  I think it's likely true of many RPG books and if we assume something like a uniform ratio of players to collectors, it's likely cWoD has more players just off the KS numbers.

As for the system I think both are bad and have little use for the Shadowrun style branch of RPG design.  It's like all the most abusable part of GURPS character creation combined with more stat+skill combinations than anyone should need.  It's a really good system if you want to sell endless splat books though.  Just like how feats and prestige classes opened up sales space for 3.X/PF.

I've played a lot of nWoD.  I really dislike the old system and have always hated the setting.

The "Chronicles of Darkness" line is way better in rules and world building, head and shoulders above in my opinion.

I agree in that storytelling system (CoD) is better than storyteller (WoD), however, that is saying streamlined shit is better than shit.  The story systems are just horrible.  They are just better off just dropping the whole thing and go with a new system.

Any analysis of the systems is, as stated before, pretty much besides the point. The question is which is played more, and in terms of sales, Classic WoD outsells nWoD/CoD.  

You could argue that these games being sold are being read rather than played, which is something I experienced a lot in the 90s (White Wolf's heyday, really). However, I can also say that I've also experienced a lot of players who have played over the last 25 years too. All this stuff is anecdotal though, obviously.

For the record, I didn't really enjoy the GURPS attempt at doing World of Darkness stuff in the 1990s, which had some fans crowing that it was better than the original, and went on about how the Storyteller system sucked, etc. What they may have had in system functionality, they lost in atmosphere and tone I always felt. The original games certainly had some issues, although I have found that the changes made in the 20th Anniversary games do address most of them in a more organic way than the nWoD overhaul. I'm playing a current campaign, and I like the system for the most part - but you can't account for everybody's taste.

This is a hard call, as WW has not put out any major products in several years.

I would assume Classic, simply because of the amount of material likely still circulating and the fact that Gamers HATE change.

I could of course, be wrong, this is purely anecdotal observations.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;871735This is a hard call, as WW has not put out any major products in several years.

I would assume Classic, simply because of the amount of material likely still circulating and the fact that Gamers HATE change.

I could of course, be wrong, this is purely anecdotal observations.

White Wolf haven't, but The Onyx Path has - via PDF/POD and Kickstarter. The top selling RPG campaigns on Kickstarter are Exalted 3rd Edition and Mage: The Ascension 20th Anniversary. Both raised more than two thirds of a million dollars each. There is a current campaign right now for Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary - and the material is not just reprints, it's newly written text and art.

They've released a multiple new products for both Classic WoD and nWoD/CoD lines. There are now ten nWoD/CoD games available, for example. The quality of presentation and writing has been, if anything, better than what was coming out for White Wolf.

Anecdotally, for all the love professed for nWoD system there are little to no games I've seen visible after their initial release (or "rerelease," like God Machine addenda). Whereas I still see, hear of, and played oWoD around here. And that's not counting the LARP community, which is solidly in the oWoD camp as far as I can tell.

Compelling premise and interesting factionalism can support a lot of tolerance of chaff, from what I see.

We host NWOD exclusively at LDRC and we don't use any GMC stuff, either (my players have gone in on anything past Geist's release). As far as I am aware, the other WOD clubs I know of also have NWOD serve as their primary game with the CWOD stuff in a supporting role. So tabletop NWOD is definitely played a lot more at club level.

We've played a hell of a lot of oWoD back in the day, but none (despite a lot of excitement from my group) since the 20th Anniversary releases started.

We had a pretty cool Changeling: the Lost mini-campaign, a Vampire: the Requiem game that's still going strong, and I have a Mage: the Awakening campaign in me that desperately wants out.

Quote from: The Butcher;871786We've played a hell of a lot of oWoD back in the day, but none (despite a lot of excitement from my group) since the 20th Anniversary releases started.

We had a pretty cool Changeling: the Lost mini-campaign, a Vampire: the Requiem game that's still going strong, and I have a Mage: the Awakening campaign in me that desperately wants out.

That's what I've found too -- of those players who played OWOD back in the day, they haven't since and when they started playing at my club they definitively prefer NWOD (whether that's purely the game itself or a mix of how we GM, atmosphere, player freedom and serious-but-still-chill sessions, I'd ask them). The impact of the 20ths' (and OPP's catalog in general) seemed to have affected established groups and "readers" mostly but hasn't really done anything for the player-base (but then again, that wasn't it's intended target audience in the first place...). When I first got into NWOD, I found quickly that there was a serious hunger for the game but nobody was GM'ing even though it was selling (and had sold) really well for White Wolf.

And dude, check out this little set of posts a few my players did for the Mage Chronicle we just ended this Christmas past (going onto Hunter next!):

http://www.meetup.com/London-Darkness-Roleplaying-Club/messages/boards/thread/49146079

Even the weirder ones like Mage and Promethean really have a lot of gamers who want to play them but can't get a group for it, I've found. It's been great offering that opportunity, if only for a year's worth.

P.S. MOTORHEAD! Was sad to hear the news.

Both of them suck. The rules are overcomplicated, the fluff is pretentious, and above all restrictive. (I'm probably one of the few people who used the translation guides to combine both settings.)  That being said... If I was still desperate enough to play, I would use the far more practical and flexible Blood Beast Man rules.

I would be shocked that NWoD is actively played more than CWoD. Probably will never see actual numbers for this.

I thought the NWoD system was light-years superior to the original Storyteller system.

And I loves me some Changeling the Lost...(and Geist). Both of those games were superb.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;871968Both of them suck. The rules are overcomplicated, the fluff is pretentious, and above all restrictive. (I'm probably one of the few people who used the translation guides to combine both settings.)  That being said... If I was still desperate enough to play, I would use the far more practical and flexible Blood Beast Man rules.

Who gives a toss about the fluff in RPGs? I never read any of that shit.

GMC-updated nWoD isn't overcomplicated at all, and gets rid of most of the stupid stuff, like lumping everything together into a single dice pool that makes the biggest weapon the most "accurate".

Quote from: Kiero;872149Who gives a toss about the fluff in RPGs? I never read any of that shit.

GMC-updated nWoD isn't overcomplicated at all, and gets rid of most of the stupid stuff, like lumping everything together into a single dice pool that makes the biggest weapon the most "accurate".

I pick and choose from it myself, but much of the appeal of the WoD lies in the concepts and writing. Indeed, it's these things that Paradox Entertainment just forked out a massive cheque for, not the methods of rolling dice. You can sell Netflix or HBO a setting, not a dice mechanic.

I do think that the various system-based drive of the early mid 2000s in game design did inform some of the changes made to the nWoD line, however. It was clearer and more defined in gameplay, and helped a lot of groups get into play better, while having less background and metaplot to digest. On the other hand, the 20th Anniversary lines also made some changes to the base system of the originals too - just a bit more subtle.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;871662This accounts for all of The Onyx Path's sales currently.

So Onyx has been selling the WOD stuff only through sites like DriveTru?
Though I was referring to just physical on the shelf product - which most publishes are tight lipped about.

Thanks for the enlightenment though. That does make things alot more visible then.