Okay, so I've gotten this book, and the lifepaths imply a certain setting.  World-weary elves, gold-lusting dwarves, twisted orcs... Tolkien with the serial numbers filed off.  Cool.  But then I get to references to the Church, and do a double-take.

If you add Christianity to Middle Earth, suddenly things start looking really different, and it adds complications that the source material doesn't address.  Is the idea that you're not supposed to use "the Church" if you're also using dwarves and stuff (and visa versa), or does this game have a setting that ties it all together?

I'm not sure if I understood you well, so tell me if I didn't.

Burning Wheel reminds me in this regard of D&D. Do Burning Wheel and D&D (at least, in the corebooks) have a setting? Well, no. Do they imply a certain setting? I would say yes. Do they have certain assumptions regarding the kind of fantasy they do (unlike Fantasy Hero)? I would say yes.

I think the character stocks are examples of what you could do for your own setting. The difference between Burning Wheel and D&D in this regard is that D&D has sourcebooks that tune rules and settings (Dragonlance, Eberron, etc), whereas Burning Wheel doesn't.

Quote from: ClaudiusI'm not sure if I understood you well, so tell me if I didn't.

Burning Wheel reminds me in this regard of D&D. Do Burning Wheel and D&D (at least, in the corebooks) have a setting? Well, no. Do they imply a certain setting? I would say yes. Do they have certain assumptions regarding the kind of fantasy they do (unlike Fantasy Hero)? I would say yes.

Right.  We're on the same page so far.

QuoteI think the character stocks are examples of what you could do for your own setting. The difference between Burning Wheel and D&D in this regard is that D&D has sourcebooks that tune rules and settings (Dragonlance, Eberron, etc), whereas Burning Wheel doesn't.

Okay, you've sort of lost me here.  What I'm asking is:

Is there some setting where having both Tolkien-style fantasy races and the Church makes sense?  Or is it assumed that you'll use one or the other, but not both?

Think Victorian Medieval with elves, dwarfs, and orcs added. Victorian Medieval in that the world greatly resembles the Medieval period as constructed by Victorian academics; the betters rule the lessers, the Church oppresses free thought, and filth abounds. Take Mafia civics, cyberpunk ethics, and dragons and add a bit of late adolescent nihilism. That's the Burning Wheel setting.

Quote from: hgjsOkay, you've sort of lost me here.  What I'm asking is:

Is there some setting where having both Tolkien-style fantasy races and the Church makes sense?  Or is it assumed that you'll use one or the other, but not both?

Ah, I see.I assume that only one or the other will be used, but that's me.

Quote from: ClaudiusAh, I see.I assume that only one or the other will be used, but that's me.

That is pretty much it. It has even less of a "setting" than D&D (although the races given are much more unique from humans). Which makes sense since it is even more a general purpose game than D&D. In a lot of ways the Elves, Orcs, and Dwarves, Faith, Sorcery, etc. are examples.

If you check the Monster Burner out you've got the Roden race, complete with a 2 page backstory history of the race....but it doesn't have specific links to the other races other than vague reference to humans. Same with the Great Wolf race except it doesn't reference any other race at all. But these are basically given as example races. Same as with the non-lifepathed monsters.

If you check out the Wiki there is a chapter excert from the upcoming Magic Burner that gives spirit binding as another way to do magic. It'll co-exist with Sorcery and Faith or stand alone (it's roughly how you'd implement a D&D Druid). Basically the magic system is modular so you can pop in and out types with different flavours depending on what setting you want. Even with Faith you are explicitly questioned about how powerful you want it to customize it's influence as part of defining the setting.

Sorcery also has some spells that wouldn't really fit for Toilken either. It's a much larger grabbag that covers more territory. But simply limiting the available spells to the appropriate subset makes it a really good fit.

QuoteThink Victorian Medieval with elves, dwarfs, and orcs added. Victorian Medieval in that the world greatly resembles the Medieval period as constructed by Victorian academics;

Tolkien was late Edwardian (EDIT: actually I guess he would have wrote LotR post-Edwardian) but he would have grown up reading Victorian historians. Yeah, basically Tolkien with a little grime smeared on.  (( I'm not sure where you get "the Church oppresses free thought" though? ))

There's also a Lankhmar vibe to the city lifepaths.

I do love that game for all those lifepaths, especially the humans and Elves. Too bad it otherwise is... well, what it is.

The implied settings I get are:

Tolkien
High Midle Ages to Early Renaissance Drama
The animal characters give me a touch of Watership Down?

I think cutting the religious lifepaths from a Tolkien style game makes sense. You can add all the races in monster burner except the Roden to such a game if you want though.

I really like a lot of things about BW and almost started a campaign with it a while back, but it's just too crunchy for me. I can't deal with RPGs that have like skills and stuff.

Has anyone done good BW hobbits yet?

Quote from: CalithenaHas anyone done good BW hobbits yet?

You know I thought I had seen one, but I can't find it now. The one for dark elves was pretty good stuff, as an aside.

Quote from: CalithenaHas anyone done good BW hobbits yet?

One way to look at them is as Peasant Setting and Villiage Setting Humans with a few race traits. Another I've seen suggested is to modify the Roden (but I don't exactly get that). Just do a search on the BW boards and you'll get a number of hits.

P.S. I get the impression that somewhere along the idea of offical BWR Hobbits got FOXed. *shrug*

Quote from: Pierce InverarityThere's also a Lankhmar vibe to the city lifepaths.

Probably because there is a city vibe to the city lifepaths. You character ends up feeling like it is part of society instead of isolated from it, even when you dip into the Outcast setting. A lot of games the character is sort of a blank slate when you start. Sure they had this life before but now they have this completely different separated, they've been transmuted and what they knew, what they did, and how they lived doesn't much matter anymore.

Quote from: blakkieOne way to look at them is as Peasant Setting and Villiage Setting Humans with a few race traits.

"Water off a duck's back"? Nice. More of that, please, Mr. designer man.

It's funny, the halfling in Basic D&D is among the strongest classes. They got it right from the get-go.

Quote from: Pierce Inverarity"Water off a duck's back"? Nice. More of that, please, Mr. designer man.

It's funny, the halfling in Basic D&D is among the strongest classes. They got it right from the get-go.

:confused: Hobbits aren't particularly 'strong' in Tolkien's work. They are definately resilient and, this is their key advantage, greater than many expect from their diminutive stature. But in the end if you notice them coming and don't make the mistake of dismissing them they aren't an extraordinarily hard match.

EDIT: Hrmm, getting a little off topic though I guess.  Feel like firing up a Hobbit thread?

No, resilience is what I meant by "strength," is all. But that's a big deal--they don't crack (easily) in face of horror and overwhelming adversity.