Quote from: lastspartacus;321968Id like to chime in here and voice my strong support of Nobilis, which is a beautiful and original game, though quite difficult to grasp even after some playing in its mind bending concept.

To say diceless games are not RPG's, when they take away dice and add more ROLE PLAYING to further the story, is absurd.

The fact that it is a difficult concept game to grasp for most is no reason to shun it, the fact that the critics must shape their characters around strictly defined and small parameters and stare at the rollings of dice to determine their character's actions to suspend themselves in a game world is no reason to abuse the gamers who don't have to.

Its not "difficult to grasp", you cunt. Its BADLY WRITTEN.
Its an incredibly simplistic game that's been written in the most godawfully verbally-diuretic way possible to make it sound all twee and clever, so that assholes can make themselves feel like they're intellectual hipsters for playing it.

Its made so that people with no talent can feel smart and special. But it actually sucks both as a book and a game.

RPGPundit

What in the world?  Is this flamer really an admin of this site?  How terribly dissapointing.  There was no call for that at all.  
Climb back on your high horse and ride on out of this thread cowboy.

At work today I thought of another reason I liked Nobilis, one of the biggun's.
I'm not sure if its the freedom of the setting of the freedom of diceless gaming, but out of the two dozen or so game settings ive tried, i like nobilis because its not nearly as limiting in that you sacrifice some of the mechanics that more strictly define what your character can do in favor of greater story telling ability, the scope of how your character handles something no longer revolves around a set of skills and feats!  Always loving RPGs almost completely for their story element, this was an eye opener for me.
Id be interested to see how this system would work lower scale, as someone has already mentioned that Amber and Nobilis are both high power games.

Not just administrator, owner. And around here, we call them like we see them.
And seeing as how you seem entirely to be on this site only to try to push nobilis, I have no qualms with calling you a cunt.

RPGPundit

Quote from: lastspartacus;322377There was no call for that at all.

Oh, I think there was:

QuoteTo say diceless games are not RPG's, when they take away dice and add more ROLE PLAYING to further the story, is absurd.

The fact that it is a difficult concept game to grasp for most is no reason to shun it, the fact that the critics must shape their characters around strictly defined and small parameters and stare at the rollings of dice to determine their character's actions to suspend themselves in a game world is no reason to abuse the gamers who don't have to.

Arrogance, condescension, snideness, wannabe martyr pose... followed by feigned surprise/denial when called on any of it. Hm... RPGnet regular?

And really, niiiice capitalisation there. Why not just abandon the thin veneer and come out with it: ROLEPLAYING > ROLLPLAYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For the record, I agree that the book is a steaming pile.

Quote from: paris80;322382Why not just abandon the thin veneer and come out with it: ROLEPLAYING > ROLLPLAYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To be fair, how is that really different from Pundit's traditional "there are no mechanics to get in the way" defence of Amber?

Quote from: lastspartacus;322377What in the world?  Is this flamer really an admin of this site?  How terribly dissapointing.  There was no call for that at all.  
Climb back on your high horse and ride on out of this thread cowboy.

The Pundit is an asshole.  But on this forum, everyone gets to say exactly what they think, including him.

I think Nobilis is pretty cool.

Quote from: paris80;322382And really, niiiice capitalisation there. Why not just abandon the thin veneer and come out with it: ROLEPLAYING > ROLLPLAYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I would never say that.  However, one of the things I like about Nobilis is that the social roleplaying parts of it -- I mean, when you are talking to NPCs -- cannot be rolled for or manipulated by the system.  It's in the metaphysics of the game; the minds of the Nobles cannot be affected by normal miracles.

So, there are no charisma checks or persuasion rolls or any of that.  You just talk.  I think that is kind of cool.

Quote from: GrimGent;322385To be fair, how is that really different from Pundit's traditional "there are no mechanics to get in the way" defence of Amber?

In that when I say that, I say it with an air of sincerity; while when the Swine say what they say about Nobilis, they say it with an air of condescending pretentiousness.

RPGPundit

WTF?

This thread is nearly 3 years old.

Quote from: One Horse Town;322486WTF?

This thread is nearly 3 years old.

No thread is ever truly dead until deleted from the drives of the server.

Given the laizze faire attitude of the admin, expect the occasional thread necro.

I can assure you guys that there was no snide hidden agenda behind what i wrote, i just didn't felt like commenting on an existing thread.  
Going back and skimming more through this site, maybe Pundit thought somehow the generalizations I made were somehow a personal attack against him, which was not the case at all.

I said it was a hard game to understand, because I found it to be a hard game to understand, and have heard similar consensus from others, that is all.
Nor did I say it was the Perfect Game, while I really love the story line, and do love the diceless system, its almost Too open, theres no hard resolution to certain effects and its all mostly up to the GM how things are resolved.

I didn't mean to stir up a nest of hornets, I was simply defending a game I like on a thread about liking the game, and I consider myself to be a pretty amiable fellow, cheetos and mountain dew gamer sometimes, not going for pretentious.
Its just a game, what is there to be condescending about?

It is true I found this forum while looking for Nobilis groups, but I have played most of the major RPG's that are popular now, and some that aren't, and I'm sure I'll find my way to those threads.  But unless there was some misinterpreted thing I said that seemed like a personal attack, I don't see why my liking a game system makes me a cunt, and are there any other game systems I should be warned about before I say I like them?

I've disliked games, but Pundit you seem to downright hate this game with a great and fiery passion, and not just you.  This really surprised me, as I've never considered Nobilis more than an unusual RPG.  You might as well tell me say, D20 Past is a steaming crap pile that only assholes play and is filled with pretentious and uppity history lovers.  
I havn't caught any thought out arguments, in my skimming anyway, other than 'steaming pile of crap book' and the like, so did you have a bad personal experience with a group of asshole gamers that used Nobilis to feel cool?

That's The Pundit. He's just like that.

His posts are pretty entertaining if you're in the mood, and if you're not, you're better off to just ignore his posts. After a while you'll see, that's just how he carries on a conversation. He'll call you names, it's harmless.

But just as some friendly advice, there's not much point in following this forum unless you're entertained reading people talk how other people are doing this whole roleplaying thing wrong. So you're not being singled out, or anything.

Quote from: lastspartacus;322678I've disliked games, but Pundit you seem to downright hate this game with a great and fiery passion, and not just you.

I do, sir.

Nobilis is a game utterly devoid of value, created by a pretentious twat, enjoyed by other pretentious twats, all of whom had as their agenda to try to have this pretentious game replace the thoroughly non-pretentious Amber game, because Amber was REALLY innovative, and making all the Swine (who talk about innovation a lot but don't actually have any talent with which to innovate) look bad.

So yes, Nobilis has a very very special place in my heart as a game to despise.

Quoteso did you have a bad personal experience with a group of asshole gamers that used Nobilis to feel cool?

Every serious fan of Nobilis I've ever met is an asshole.

Starting with Borgstrom, who's one of the most talentless people in the industry today, hiding her incompetency behind prose clearly made to sound pseudo-intellectual enough to appeal to fake "artistes" without actually ever saying a fucking thing.

From there on down, to the RPG.net Swine, to the Nobilis fans who swamped the GoO forums back when GoO had the Amber license to try to convince the GoO writers that Amber 2e had to run on Nobilis, etc etc.

I've never met a Nobilis fan who wasn't a pretentious, pseudo-intellectual, double-talking, bottom-dealing, two-timing, fake-"artiste", elitist, slimy, Swiney, utter cunt.

RPGPundit

Could someone please point me to some (at least mostly) impartial review of the game? Sadly, all this stupid name calling made me curious. Thanks.

I played an extremely cool homebrew a few years back, diceless, where each of the four players played the "avatar" (way before the cartoon) of one of the four classic elements, and we could basically do anything within the realm of those elements. Maybe I'm wrong, but this Nobilis thing reminds me a little of that.

Quote from: SunBoy;322812Could someone please point me to some (at least mostly) impartial review of the game? Sadly, all this stupid name calling made me curious. Thanks.

Here is the one less than glowing review I've found on the 'Net: I could take the time to refute most of the complaints, but eh, by now it'd be a bit of a rehash. And of course, you can also pick from these.