What I like about Nobilis!

James McMurray · November 22, 2006, 11:59:18 AM

Threadcrapper.

The Yann Waters · November 22, 2006, 12:00:41 PM

Quote from: SosthenesHey, I think somewhere a Markov Chain generator is running wild.

What, you mean that GoP quote? It should prove useful if I ever need to run a scenario which involves an occult conspiracy around Mount Rushmore.

Ian Absentia · November 22, 2006, 12:06:04 PM

Yes, but is that 85 kg of rancid fat or lean muscle and sinew?

!i!

(P.S. Has Jong seen you naked? How does he know you're not wearing a girdle?)

Sosthenes · November 22, 2006, 12:06:30 PM

Quote from: GrimGentWhat, you mean that GoP quote? It should prove useful if I ever need to run a scenario which involves an occult conspiracy around Mount Rushmore.

Nope, the general style looks like it could be done with enough source material (let's say, some Neil Gaiman novels, some beat poetry and goth diaries) and some semi-sophisticated computer technology. I'll write that once I perfect my Rush lyrics generator

I'd like to see if she could manage something that's a wee bit longer. Short, weird vignettes aren't that hard to do, putting it into a coherent whole would be interesting.

Ian Absentia · November 22, 2006, 12:10:50 PM

Quote from: SosthenesI'd like to see if she could manage something that's a wee bit longer. Short, weird vignettes aren't that hard to do, putting it into a coherent whole would be interesting.

Arguably, that's why she's written a roleplaying game rather than a novel. Precious few game writers have proven successful at writing developed fiction. However, I, too, would like to see if she could do it -- I enjoy her vignette writing enough to pick up an actual novel.

!i!

The Yann Waters · November 22, 2006, 12:12:39 PM

Quote from: SosthenesI'd like to see if she could manage something that's a wee bit longer. Short, weird vignettes aren't that hard to do, putting it into a coherent whole would be interesting.

There are some fairly massive story arcs in Hitherby Dragons, and of course all the HD histories form a single continuity which began when two little girls survived the burning of Sodom...

The Yann Waters · November 22, 2006, 12:18:33 PM

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaHowever, I, too, would like to see if she could do it -- I enjoy her vignette writing enough to pick up an actual novel.

That's one of the ways in which RSB's writings remind me of Leena Krohn: all the books by the latter (even the ones called "novels" by the publisher) are collections of often loosely interlinked short stories, sometimes only a few paragraphs in length. One of them was recently nominated for a World Fantasy Award.

Sosthenes · November 22, 2006, 12:19:46 PM

Quote from: GrimGentThere are some fairly massive story arcs in Hitherby Dragons, and of course all the HD histories form a single continuity which began when two little girls survived the burning of Sodom...

Oh my, she's a veritable Henry Darger.

Blackleaf · November 22, 2006, 01:09:50 PM

QuoteYes? But Lilimund had nothing to do with sexual pleasure. She was born to fill the emptiness of Washington's childhood, in the usual manner of Hitherby gods; and his crime was murdering her when he felt that wasn't enough for him any more, and then trying in vain to justify his actions with material possessions and religious teachings. That's the lesson he learns about the responsibilities that come with power, and the reason why he cannot bear to lie again when his father asks about the tree. (And we know that he won't lie, of course, because that's how the original story goes.)

Yes, clearly it's nothing like this premise:

What if...? The cherry trees George Washington had chopped down were Dryads?

As for sexual pleasure... perhaps not literally in the story, but I'm sure you'll agree that good writing goes beyond the literal story being told...

Whether the source is the Xanth novels or the Greek mythology of Daphne... there's no escaping that "dance for me", and a drunken "dance for me" in particular, and especially a "dance for me" demand from a man to a dryad, carries more meaning than you seem to be aware of.

The Yann Waters · November 22, 2006, 01:24:04 PM

Quote from: StuartWhether the source is the Xanth novels or the Greek mythology of Daphne... there's no escaping that "dance for me", and a drunken "dance for me" in particular, and especially a "dance for me" demand from a man to a dryad, carries more meaning than you seem to be aware of.

Of course those meanings are obvious. That's the point: Washington is demanding something that he never had any right to ask in the first place, and then suffers the consequences. If you are looking for comparisons, try "Calliope" by Neil Gaiman.

Blackleaf · November 22, 2006, 01:32:32 PM

It's about the Sexy-Time

Quote from: GrimGentBut Lilimund had nothing to do with sexual pleasure.

*Examples*
It's about the Sexy-Time

Quote from: GrimGentOf course those meanings are obvious.

Yes, of course it's obvious.

The Yann Waters · November 22, 2006, 01:38:40 PM

Quote from: StuartYes, of course it's obvious.

Yes. Lilimund is not a sexual creature. Washington is trying to turn her into something that she isn't, and something that he has no right to expect her to be. Now compare this with the writer in Gaiman's story who has no qualms about capturing and raping a muse because she's "not a real woman" and just anyone's property, and who far too late is horrified to realize that she has a life and a past which doesn't include him. (In a very small voice: "I never knew you had a son.")

fonkaygarry · November 22, 2006, 02:38:34 PM

Borgstrom's fiction does nothing for me, personally. I don't read modern fantasy, so that probably dictates my tastes in that direction.

But the Websnark quote can be explained. Dude is like that for everything he likes. His achewood praise is so hyperbolic as to make me cringe (and I've read achewood for almost four years now.) His online character's as positive as Pundit's is reactionary.

That explains that.

Everyone else? Different kicks for different tricks.

Blackleaf · November 22, 2006, 02:51:10 PM

Quote from: fonkaygarryBut the Websnark quote can be explained. Dude is like that for everything he likes. His achewood praise is so hyperbolic as to make me cringe (and I've read achewood for almost four years now.) His online character's as positive as Pundit's is reactionary.

Interesting. So you think that from these Linkbaiting Techniques the Pundit uses #15. The Attack, while the Snark uses #10. Make Someone Famous.

That would seem to ring true with what I've seen of Websnark over the years.

(As an aside: I've used #1 and #19 over the years to very good effect.)

The Yann Waters · November 28, 2006, 02:00:06 PM

(Continued from this thread in order to avoid blatant threadcrapping...)

Quote from: James McMurrayFor example: I read parts of Nobilis the other day and really liked the idea that the players have so much control over the cosmos. That the game can handle nobles of table manners as easily as it handles nobles of nuclear forces is great.

One of the things I enjoy about the game is that someone like the Power of Table Manners would be a perfectly acceptable PC, and in no way underpowered or incompatible with the rest of the Familia. With a Lesser Creation, he could instill a sense of etiquette in a nuclear bomb so that it suddenly realizes how terribly rude gobbling down an entire city in one fiery holocaust would be, while a Lesser Change might grant politeness itself the power to crush and suffocate: "Leaving in a hurry so soon after the appetizers? Unfortunately, and I do apologize for the inconvenience, as your host I really must insist that you sit down quietly and enjoy your last meal..."