Quote from: David RThe one thing most folks who do like the game have issues with, is that it's pretty hard to set up a game. There are no hooks or start up points. I thought you may like to see what some folks are doing with it.

Well, I asked having something in mind already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia_Agent

The episode "Mellow Maromi" was particularly freaky the first time I saw it, not knowing about the rest of the series.

I wouldn't rip the series off wholesale, but it's a style I'd love to try and mimic in a game.

Atlas Games stopped producing supplements for Unknown Armies for a couple of years already.  I'm only guessing here, but I think unknown-armies.com is official in the sense that John Tynes, one of the developers of the game, runs the site and has a large presence there.  It's probably "official" like how the Amber forum here is "official".

Quote from: MoriartyAtlas Games stopped producing supplements for Unknown Armies for a couple of years already.  I'm only guessing here, but I think unknown-armies.com is official in the sense that John Tynes, one of the developers of the game, runs the site and has a large presence there.  It's probably "official" like how the Amber forum here is "official".

It is the official site, but Atlas themselves do not run or support it.

The supplements are out of print, but there was just a new printing of the corebook, which should be in stores soon.

Quote from: beejazzWell, I asked having something in mind already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia_Agent

The episode "Mellow Maromi" was particularly freaky the first time I saw it, not knowing about the rest of the series.

Very nice beejazz. This is damn good fodder for an UA campaign. Hell, I may just steal this myself

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RVery nice beejazz. This is damn good fodder for an UA campaign. Hell, I may just steal this myself

Regards,
David R

http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a25c3921396b13501139799b9b000b2

The first episode, to get you going. Careful you don't have any anime fans in your group. It's aired on Adult Swim recently enough.

In any case, if UA is the system for Paranoia Agent, that by itself seems justification enough.

You wanted to know about some of the cool and/or wonky rules.

I really like the simple, but effective way stats and skills interact. This is one of my biggest gripes with CoC. In UA, stats put a limit on associated skills and, during char gen, provide the amount of points you can pour into the skills themselves. Dead simple, but smooth.

That, in my opinion, is UA's system at its best. There are a few instances where it doesn't work that well. I'm particularly unhappy with the way armour is treated (basically the presence of body armour is like a binary switch turning lethal firearms damage into ridiculous punching damage).

Some other mechanics straddle the line. The rules for car chases, for example, are inspired, but require a bit of tweaking to make them work right for me (especially the hit/miss rules for firing at the other car). Similar things have been done before, of course, but the way pursuer and pursued can engage in a duel of risky maneuvers and bid up crazy stunts is very nice.

Another point is the way UA handles skill tests. The system assumes non-ideal circumstances - i.e., when there's a fight in UA, it's going to be in a dark, narrow alley while rain is pouring down, so no need to slap on modifiers which apply to both sides anyway. If you got time and can relax, things get much easier. But the mad rush of the alley is assumed to be the standard.

For a percentile system it's really quite good, combining that old-school charm of % with some snazzy mechanisms and attitude. It's got much of that punk charme Vampire and CP once had, but none of the immaturity and lots of style.

Quote from: Bobo, the CarpenterYou wanted to know about some of the cool and/or wonky rules.

I really like the simple, but effective way stats and skills interact. This is one of my biggest gripes with CoC. In UA, stats put a limit on associated skills and, during char gen, provide the amount of points you can pour into the skills themselves. Dead simple, but smooth.

So your stat determines how many points you can distribute in related skills and skill caps? Does it also provide a bonus, or just that? Either way, that does sound nifty.

QuoteThat, in my opinion, is UA's system at its best. There are a few instances where it doesn't work that well. I'm particularly unhappy with the way armour is treated (basically the presence of body armour is like a binary switch turning lethal firearms damage into ridiculous punching damage).

As in converting damage into subdual damage, or somesuch? If so, that does sound kinda not cool.

QuoteSome other mechanics straddle the line. The rules for car chases, for example, are inspired, but require a bit of tweaking to make them work right for me (especially the hit/miss rules for firing at the other car). Similar things have been done before, of course, but the way pursuer and pursued can engage in a duel of risky maneuvers and bid up crazy stunts is very nice.

I haven't played many game systems thus far, but I have noticed a peculiar absence of good chase scene rules. What about this needed tweaking?

QuoteFor a percentile system it's really quite good, combining that old-school charm of % with some snazzy mechanisms and attitude. It's got much of that punk charme Vampire and CP once had, but none of the immaturity and lots of style.

Sounds good to me.

Quote from: pigames.netI checked out that Unknown Armies site. You mean to tell me that Atlas Games needs donations to keep that site operating? Disgraceful.

Atlas doesn't have anything to do with that site.  You needed to check it out a little more thoroughly, I guess.

KoOS

IMHO, Unknown Armies is an interesting game but the writing is overblown and the system is seriously wonky. I'm usually a big fan of lightweight, simple systems, but the Unknown Armies mechanics are very "meh".
 
I really don't see the point in a percentile system which basically relies heavily on a lot of handwaving from the GM. There's quite a bit of vagueness around different skills (with players able to select their own, completely free form skills) and whether the GM deems a task to be Minor, Significant or Major. Nothing that you don't already find in a lot of other games, except it seems kinda pointless to have such a huge amount of handwaving embedded in the rules, but then the fine granularity of a percentile system.
 
Plus, there are quite a few minor elements to the rules that are counter-inuitive. For example, a minor skill check means you treat your skill as being +15% higher (so a failed roll might actually be a success). Also, the degree of success is actually based on how close you get to your actual skill, so beating your skill by 1% is actually better than beating it by 30%. Individually, none of these things are particularly complicated, but they are a bit counter intuitive to the way typical RPGs work. And they don't really add much to the game.
 
Like "flip-flops". In certain circumstances, you can switch the percentile dice to get a different rules, so a 91 could become a 19. On the surfce, it seems like a neat little mechanic, but in reality all it does is represent a bonus to your skill in certain situations. It doesn't add much to the game.
 
The good parts of the game, are the interesting stories. It's one of the few RPGs that has game fiction I actually enjoyed reading. And the wierd setting has oodles of potential. I'd definitely consider purchasing at for it's potential as a source book.
 
If our group ever wanted to give it a shot (again) and I was the GM, I'd probably use the ideas from the book but mechanics from Fudge. I'd use a simple collection of skills and I'd retain the maddness meters but use the Fudge scale for them. Alternatively, I'd consider using Fate, with maddness represented by Aspects.
 
If you want to play a game the focuses on the story and has lightweight mechanics, then actually bloody use lightweight mechanics.
 
As the GM of our abortive attempt at Unknown Armies, I'm sure Kyle can add some more information.  I know that he was very critical over the quality of the writing.

Quote from: beejazzSo your stat determines how many points you can distribute in related skills and skill caps? Does it also provide a bonus, or just that? Either way, that does sound nifty.

The more points you put in stats, the more points you can assign to the skills governed by it. Actually, this is my favorite bit of all the mechanics in the system. After I've seen other systems contort themself, I think this is inspired elegance.
Unskilled rolls are made agains the appropriate stat, with a penalty.

Quote from: beejazzAs in converting damage into subdual damage, or somesuch? If so, that does sound kinda not cool.

It's just just that firearms do damage equal to the succesful skill roll, capped by the sill level and the weapons damage max, while bulletproof vests reduce this to the unshifted value of the SUM of the two dice. Is this what you meant with "subdual"?
Skill roll 57. Gun: 57 points damage. With vest: 12 points.
Easy to houserule, though, and it's just one small special rule.

Quote from: beejazzI haven't played many game systems thus far, but I have noticed a peculiar absence of good chase scene rules. What about this needed tweaking?

It's actually quite good. There's player-empowered stuff like taking risks and insane risks to gain or lose distance (in car-lenghts), but the rules for firing at a car only take into account hitting the people inside the car. Thinking it over, maybe that's not a bad idea, but rules for wrecking the car itself ("Aim for the tire!") would fit in nicely here.

Quote from: beejazzSounds good to me.

It does. The best thing about UA, however, is the way character driven play is supported. Together with the sketchy background, the madness and stimulus rules really go a long way towards atmospheric play, if you're willing to buy into it.
What many people don't like are some of the actual dice mechanisms. Flip-flops, cherries, that kind of thing. Still, better than a straight 5% chance of fumbling/critting, in my opinion.

Quote from: Tyberious FunkNothing that you don't already find in a lot of other games, except it seems kinda pointless to have such a huge amount of handwaving embedded in the rules, but then the fine granularity of a percentile system.

If you want to play a game the focuses on the story and has lightweight mechanics, then actually bloody use lightweight mechanics.
 

I must admit it's really a very strange decision. Perhaps a deep love for the (lately much maligned) percentile skill systems?

Quote from: Bobo, the CarpenterIt's just just that firearms do damage equal to the succesful skill roll, capped by the sill level and the weapons damage max, while bulletproof vests reduce this to the unshifted value of the SUM of the two dice. Is this what you meant with "subdual"?
Skill roll 57. Gun: 57 points damage. With vest: 12 points.
Easy to houserule, though, and it's just one small special rule.

Say what?! 57->12? Oie... not good.

(Note: Subdual is a sort of lesser damage that don't kill you... see also "nonlethal." Least in the current incarnation of DnD).

Also, yeah... being able to trash vehicles would make for some good stuff.

Quote from: Tyberious FunkThe good parts of the game, are the interesting stories. It's one of the few RPGs that has game fiction I actually enjoyed reading. And the wierd setting has oodles of potential. I'd definitely consider purchasing at for it's potential as a source book.
 
If our group ever wanted to give it a shot (again) and I was the GM, I'd probably use the ideas from the book but mechanics from Fudge. I'd use a simple collection of skills and I'd retain the maddness meters but use the Fudge scale for them.

(Bolding mine) Exactly.

Your FUDGE idea is very interesting. I'm always looking for settings I can fudge up.

Regards,
David R

You know, I suspect if Greg Stolze sat down and wrote Unknown Armies today, he'd use the One Roll Engine for it. He's already shown how you can tie the madness meters in with the ORE in NEMESIS, and the ORE is much more polished and shiny than the UA system.

Quote from: beejazzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia_Agent

The episode "Mellow Maromi" was particularly freaky the first time I saw it, not knowing about the rest of the series.

Heh, and after the MARINER thread, now might me the second-best moment to tell you about my employer...

("Mellow Maromi" is my favourite episode of the series.)